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Car Guy
The Aging Hot Rod Scene
Why are younger kids no longer interested vintage cars? Could it be because of government?
(Page 2 of 2)
The cars themselves are also much more expensive — both to buy and to keep up — to a great extent because of all the emissions (and “safety”) gear. Kids today can’t afford to buy the pre-government muscle cars of the '60s and '70s. But the newer, government-mandated cars of the '80s and '90s have computers, fuel injection, dozens of sensors, complex wiring — which makes them much less affordable to fix up.
An example: I recently rebuilt the three carburetors in the S1. Even after sitting for 20-plus years, all it took was some solvent, a toothbrush and elbow grease to clean up the castings to as-new condition. Got a rebuild kit (floats, pilot and main jets, gaskets, needle and seat) for about $70. That’s it. Contrast that with the cost of replacing an EFI unit — or even just a few critical sensors — each of which can cost more than I spent rebuilding the entire fuel delivery system (which consists of just the carbs) on the S1.
Exhaust: Back in the day a set of headers cost about $75 (even today, they’re not much more than that for a pre-smog car) and the rest was just pipes (cheap) and mufflers (affordable). Today, you’ve got at least two converters in a V-8 application — and unless you use the low-flow POS generic ones, you are looking at $200-plus for each of them. Plus O2 sensors. So, easily $500-plus for just the converters and O2 sensors (and that’s a lowball figure).
Who can afford this? I sure couldn’t at 20!
* Mandatory insurance — Back in the early '80s, you didn’t have to buy insurance. If you owned your old fix-it-up special outright (as most of us did), you could tell the insurance mafia to bugger off. Not anymore. Today, insurance is mandatory — which has made insurance even more expensive. For teens and twentysomethings especially. They get Group Guilted into paying exorbitant rates — even if a given individual teen/twentysomething’s driving record is spotless. It doesn’t matter. What does matter is that the insurance mafia can charge exorbitant rates based on Group Guilt — backed by government force. Fail to pay up — and you risk severe sanctions. Even though you’ve never caused anyone any harm. The bottom line is that insurance costs on performance cars especially are unaffordable for teens and twentysomethings. So, they don’t buy the kinds of cars that teens and twentysomethings did when I was in that demographic.
In the final analysis, all the red tape — the hassle and the expense — is a turnoff. So, the kids find other things to do — like online gaming or whatever else they can still do relatively free of government interposition and obnoxious cost.
So, the older crowd continues to carry the torch. We’ll do it for as long as we can. But how much longer can that be?
About the Author
Eric Peters is an automotive columnist and author of Automotive Atrocities: The Cars You Love to Hate (Motor Books International) and a new book, Road Hogs.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (34) | Leave a comment
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Appleby| 6.28.12 @ 7:00AM
My first car was a very old Studebaker Lark VI which I could repair myself, thanks to a father who was a car buff and had no sons; although by the time I got it (in the 1970s) the parts were only available at the rebuild shop, I could replace the easy ones myself. Even in those days a girl who could work on a car was jeered at and mocked, and I was actually accused by a librarian in a summer reading program of not having read a particular book because I couldn't describe the prom dresses, although I could tell her every detail of the hot rods the boys in that book owned.However, I think kids generally don't own or care about old cars, because in Elementary Marketing they are told 10,000 times per day "Ending is better than mending." "I love new cars, I love new clothes, I love new devices..."
P.S. Since a growing majority of toddlers (aged 16-25) behind the wheel are texting or yammering on the cell phones, thank God for mandatory insurance.
Jack in Wi| 6.28.12 @ 7:13AM
Today you need a lot of money to fool around with old cars. The parts are expensive and old cars cost a lot of money. Kids today don't have good jobs, to pay for all this. Many are wasting years in college or studying. They don't have the time or ambition to do this kind of stuff. Years ago a lot of young men lived on farms or worked in factories and had some mechanical, hands on skills, to do this kind of hobby. Also the old cars that previous generations loved are not the same cars that this generation has grown up with. Naturally the cars at old cars shows are going to be those that old foggies remember. There aren't many of those cars left to restore.
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 6.28.12 @ 7:23AM
The young can not pull themselves away from Facebook long enough to do anything.
SCMike| 6.28.12 @ 7:39AM
Your notions play a part, but today’s kids (younger than 40!) have little knowledge of things mechanical, much less about anything that’s petroleum-powered. Helping two 20-somethings replace a water pump started off with “lefty – loosey, righty – tighty” and the wonders of a socket wrench. The only reason they attempted the job themselves was my telling them “we could do it.” Well, I ended up doing it.
They’re great with video games and smart phones, but when it comes to metal, blood, and burns, they’re useless…
MK48| 6.29.12 @ 12:27AM
Gee……….I don’t know where to start…..someone asked the other day if you had to choose a time to relive your life when would it be. My answer was “I wouldn’t change a thing”. I grew up in a special time when gas was 30 cents a gal. I saved working as a bag boy at the local market for $1.62 an hr. Finally in 1963 I saved enough for my first car a 56 Chevy. My neighbor helped me rebuild the 265 cu in engine into a 301, ported & polished the heads installed a 4 speed. I got beat by one of my buddies so I changed the RR to a 4:88 posi ratio. See it was always who had the fastest car in HS. No one taught me, I just asked questions and got it done.
Times were simpler then, it was fun to work on your car to beat the other guy. I grew up and still live in So Cal this was the place to be and everyone who didn’t live here wanted to. We would run up Van Nuys Blvd. to Bob’s drive-in and then hit Bob’s on Sepulveda Blvd. it was a race from light to light. If you got beat you saved your money and added what ever speed part to your car it took to beat the other guy.
MK48| 6.29.12 @ 12:29AM
Today my son (28) has learned how to work on his truck and dirt bike. I stood back and guided him to learn how to work with his hands. I am proud that he knows how to do a brake job, change out a rear end in his truck, oil changes, and change out a fuel pump in a gas tank. It seems like my house is the repair garage for all his buddies, I just sit back watch and drink a beer. I ask how come your dad didn’t show you? They would say he doesn’t care or was to busy.
I wish I still had some of the cars I’ve owned….56 & 57 Chevy, 61 Pontiac Bonneville, 68 Plymouth GTX/hemi, 78 Buick GNX to name a few.
I can remember like it was just yesterday looking for a race on the Blvd. with the windows down on a summer’s night listening to rock & roll on my Norelco record player with the vibrasonic turned way up.
Brother John| 6.28.12 @ 8:02AM
Two other explanations:
First of all, the boomers destroyed this sort of thing as a way of life. Over time, the price of 'simpler' cars, pre-1976 or so, was driven into the stratosphere. Don't think about restoring a '68-'70 Charger, it'll cost you $5K just to get started with a frame and a few body panels, never mind anything else. The days of doing such things as a hobby were really over when Barrett Jackson showed up. Investment, indeed.
Second, it's typical to be nostalgic about things that were around when you were age 15-25 or so, and to drive something nearly as old as you. Guys who are Peters' age got to fool around with these cars after their first owners began to grow up and buy station wagons. Guys who are 25-30 now were driving K-cars and other '80s-mobiles when they were younger, and what's to be nostalgic about that?
Sadly, since cars that people really want to work on and preserve weren't made after the mid 1970s or so, and with the market in really outstanding old cars completely locked up, it's an idea whose time has come and gone.
c. j. acworth| 6.28.12 @ 8:12AM
About that mandatory insurance, Peters, you've obviously never been rear-ended by some inexperienced youngster who didn't have coverage. Damn straight it should be required, driving is a privilige not a right. People need to be protected from financial disaster, whether they are the victim in an accident or are at fault. I haven't been in so much as a fender bender in over 30 years, and can't remember the last time I got pulled over, but I carry insurance to protect myself if I do cause an accident one day.
Stilton A. Cheese| 6.28.12 @ 8:21AM
Buncha Baloney! I work with my twenty-three year old on his car whenever he's home from school. We've replaced the sways, added chassis bracing, replaced bushings, etc. His unmodified two liter MX-5, with 160hp will embarrassingly smoke almost any muscle car from the 1960's you care to name, it will start every time it's asked to, parts are inexpensive and there's tons of aftermarket stuff out there, gets good gasoline mileage and there are enthusiast computer forums that are full of people who can diagnose a problem correctly given just a few poorly written sentences. There are still young motorheads out there, just not as many as there were back in the *old* days.
JayDick| 6.28.12 @ 8:50AM
In most respects, the new cars are much better than the old ones. The old ones are easier and cheaper to work on, but that's the most positive thing you can say. New ones perform better, last longer, and require much less maintenance, which is good because maintenance when needed can be expensive.
scotchieguy| 6.30.12 @ 9:30AM
I have a 2001 Ford Ranger PU. I had it in to do some work, and asked if I should have my thermostat and hoses all replaced as a precautionary measure (truck has 125,000 miles on it), and the mechanic said, "naw, those things last forever. Don't worry about it." I still have never had a tune up, I just replaced the orig. battery last summer (truck was ten yrs old), still have the orig. master cylinder, alternator, starter, water pump, etc. The only thing I have done on it is air filters, brakes,tires and basic maintenance like oil changes, cooling flushes, etc.
It is simply no longer necessary nor desireable to work on these newer cars. It used to alot of fun to rip open the hood, and tweak the carb, or even rebuild it or add a holley. They just don't make 'em like they used to, and they just aren't anywhere nearly as cool.
The only thing I see kids do today is put on some funky rims, a loud muffler, and maybe a fancy stereo with a loud subwoofer. Big deal.
Red Bubba| 6.28.12 @ 8:57AM
Young people do less of everything. They mostly sit and be entertained. There seem to be quite a few into 4 wheelers, which were virtually non-existent back in the day.
Mary| 6.28.12 @ 9:09AM
My 27 year old son and his friends are very much into the vintage hot-rod cars. In fact my son has owned and sold a 56 Buick and a 57 Chevy. The problem is the accessibility of parts and the cost of obtaining the parts to restore these vehicles. My son's fear is the government is going to find a way to get rid of these glorious vehicles. One of his heros is Harley Earl and he laments the death of General Motors at the hands of the government. So Mr. Peters the younger generation does love these cars, many just can't afford to restore and protect them.
scotchieguy| 6.30.12 @ 9:34AM
Don't worry, the govt will never get rid of them. They have already gotten rid of 99.999 percent of the old ones, or they are no longer desireable. The ones that are still nice are museum pieces or have all been accounted for.
Up here in Mpls, we just had a "back to the '50's show." It is one of the biggest in the nation. As much as I hate govt, there is no way or no need to get rid of the vintage beauties. Hell, even boring bureaucrats probably admire these old beasts, and probably love the rumbling sound of them cruizin' by.
scubadude| 6.28.12 @ 9:40AM
A 20 year old kid came by recently saw my cars and asked about my 64 Chevy II. I explained about the car and asked him if he wanted a ride.
I guess so he mumbled. After a couple of rips on the county road (375 hp+) we parked and I asked him what he thought. His answer: "Its ok I guess, but it's a death trap, no air bags, un-padded dash, knobs sticking out". The car took 2 years to build, has "upgrades that would bring tears to the eyes of any motorhead (I owned a mfg operation at the time and had use of a complete plant to build goodies) and this kid didn't like the "knobs".
I also had a "bone stock" 1941 Chevy pickup that took over 3 years to restore, his comment on that one? "It's ok but I wouldn't drive it, no air conditioning". I told another kid about another car I had, "double pumper on double humpers, Isky roller and 12:1", all I got was a blank stare but I get a lot of that from kids today.
JimH| 6.28.12 @ 9:52AM
It’s not that they are not interested in cars. It’s just that they are not interested in the cars that interest you. Today’s utes (thank you Joe Pesce) don’t care about hemis and GTOs. They like rice rockets and Tokyo Drift mobiles.
THKrupp| 6.28.12 @ 10:15AM
Im not sure where Peter lives but every other car here is a 4x4 diesel truck driven by an 18 year old kid with exhust stacks that are set up like a semi exhust. Everytime one of them takes off from a stop sign the black smoke is so thick you have to wait to let it clear. I dont think you have to worry too much Peter. Car culture is alive and well in todays youth. Its just not the same car culture you grew up with.
THKrupp| 6.28.12 @ 10:16AM
Sorry I meant Mr Peters...for some reason I thought his first name was Peter.
THKrupp| 6.28.12 @ 10:24AM
Another thing that Mr Peters doesnt mention. These older cars werent all that expensive until the mid 90s. I think theres a lot of older folks out there fixing up older cars. The demand is very high for these cars and parts. Yes inflation has taken a toll but so has demand. Demand by the same people that Mr Peters hangs out with at cars shows.
Le Cracquere| 6.28.12 @ 11:18AM
Thanks to technological advances, cars are no longer the only gadget in town. Many kids drawn to neato technology, who would have been gearheads by default a generation ago, might now more interested in their computer network, audio system, or home film studio.
On the other hand, I don't know precisely what explains me, the son of a dedicated car lover whose restored '57 Bel Air is his pride and joy. And yet if I could practically function without owning a car at all, I would in a heartbeat. I absolutely detest having to rely on, find parking for, and throw money into the one I've got; being bound to it for work and shopping purposes feels like the exact reverse of freedom. But I doubt that's a majority opinion even among youngsters.
Who Knows?| 6.28.12 @ 11:58AM
The law of supply and demand always works its magic, even when it comes to cars.
Technological improvements along with higher environmental standards have certainly made new cars much more complicated to work on, and I’ll never want to go back to the days when smog was such a problem. The memory of black smoke coming out tailpipes is not a good one.
I watched some “Rockford Files” from the 70’s, which was filmed in the LA area. Oh, the smog was so ubiquitous!
Personally, I’ll continue to maintain my 77 Toyota pickup, and drive it as little as needed. Better to pump the pedals on my bike for all the local shopping---get out in nature, experience the different seasons, especially the temperature swings, exercise the body, and save MUCHO money: a win win, it seems to me.
I bought the Toy in ’94 for $700, and have rebuilt all the systems that needed it—the engine & trannie are still fine, after 194,000 miles. All systems are within specs, so there’s no reason the truck won’t run---until I die.
That’s good enough for me!
Petronius| 6.28.12 @ 11:59AM
The care and feeding of old cars that run like scared deer require competence in this age of over extended adolescence and obsession with stardom, computer games, apps, tweets, and the rest of the I-verse. And driving in traffic requires Attention, which is the bane of those who live and die by the Text.
Add to it the legion of Red/Green weenies who are the acolytes of Algore and enemies of all internal combustion along with all statist control freaks who want all vehicles without black snitch boxes off the road yesterday. You will soon be required to take your old cars to the Concours aboard trailers and only allowed to drive them to your display spaces. These cultural traitors would dearly love to put you and your cars in the crusher together.
dwkunkel| 6.28.12 @ 12:56PM
There's a very active group of 20 something car nuts, they just won't be found in the vintage car circles.
A few years ago, my grandson swapped the engine in his 1999 Honda Civic with a 200 hp Acura engine. He and a group of his friends had the wiring schematics for both the Civic and the Acrura spread out all over our garage floor and managed to get all the sensors and and the computer controller hooked up correctly.
Then he took it down to the BAR inspection station and had the installation certified as a smog legal engine swap. I was amazed at the way he fearlessly tackled all the intricacies of the project.
When it was finished and certified, he took it to the drag strip and ran a high 14 second quarter mile. That's something that very few of the old muscle cars could match in anything like stock condition.
Stilton A. Cheese| 6.28.12 @ 3:21PM
You got it all correct. I no longer have to keep a feeler-gauge, points file, and a can of WD40 in the trunk; there's no distributor, no rotor, no moisture. I began turning a wrench in '65, once had a '46 Caddy 62 series with a flathead V8 that I could balance a cigarette on it's filtered end on the oil bath air filter with the motor idling. I had a '64 Ford Galaxy 500 with the smallest V8 Ford put in the car and it was a real slug as far as get-up-and-go, but a real sweet long distance ride. Yeah, they were easy to work on, but I'de rather have been drinking beers or rolling doobies than HAVING to work on the car. It's a dark and stormy night and you're in the middle of nowhere and the car dies because there's moisture on the spark-plug cables? No Thanks. Been there done that. On the other hand if anyone reading has a Norton Dominator 88 they're looking to sell I got the tools and experience and the dough to fix it up if the price is right.
Cabermon| 6.28.12 @ 4:16PM
Me: Early '60s engineer, have worked on cars forever.
Toy: 1978 Porsche 911SC Targa
Recent activities: Just replaced an oil hose, a window motor, and the alternator.
Observations:
* In the '60s-'70s, cars being hot-rodded were from the about 10-15 years prior, e.g. a '57 Chevy in 1969 was the hot ride. 30+ year old collectables like Model As and such were owned by old guys then, too.
* Today I see lots of 10-15 year old Hondas, Subarus, and other affordable used cars outfitted with turbos, modded suspensions, chrome, and LEDs! The hot iron to which Eric refers date from the 60s-'70s: 30 to 40 years old and being coddled today by old guys.
* Many guys modified cars to improve their elephantine performance and handling. But today's vanilla sedans outperform the Ferraris and Jags of yesteryear. I own a used 15 year old stock BMW which outperforms anything I'd owned before. Another reason to just leave it stock.
* So whenever I see a young guy (>30) with a pristine CRX or Miata or a Low-Rider Chevy with a 10,000 Watt stereo, I smile and think "The tradition lives on."
OldmanRick| 6.29.12 @ 12:02AM
Many fathers today lack the mechanical skills or interest to teach a son to repair and maintain a vintage car. Seems when computer chips hit the automobile scene, diagnostic tools became expensive.
Another factor involved is that back in the day money was hard to come by, and many of us acquired our cars by buying a clunker, worked to earn some cash, and rebuilt said clunker until it was fully functional. Lots of younger men and teenagers today can't and apparently don't wish to work with their hands.
JeMeRappelle| 6.29.12 @ 11:03AM
Vintage cars aren't the only hobby losing its appeal. The collecting of anything has declined dramatically, and the average age of collectors keeps rising as any art or antiques dealer will tell you. This was most obvious 15 years ago when there were huge antiques shows like Atlantique City. There were over 1,500 dealers and the aisles were crowded, but very few post-Baby Boomers were there. Many dealers have since gone out of business, and regional auction houses are on life support.
The poor economy doesn't help, and neither do the higher costs of restoration, but it seems young people simply aren't interested in the past or anything old.
WallyG| 6.29.12 @ 11:40AM
But couyldn't it also go much deeper than the government regulations? Think of our classic cars as part of the history of this nation and its economic prowess, creativity, skill and influence globally. Then think of how the decline in interest in cars corresponds to the lack of interest in our history, cutlure and values by today's young. Watching Jay Leno's man on the street interviews just highlights how totally uninformed so many are, and how intentional it all appears and how a country with no history means nothing to the people the government wants to manipulate.
J Baustian| 6.29.12 @ 1:11PM
My friend was in town last week for a classic car show. He's 66, while I just turned 61. He grew up in the hotrod/Beachboys era of the early 1960s, while I grew up in the 007/Aston Martin/LotusF1 era of the mid and later 1960s. So while some of my classmates, the ones with older brothers, were into the souped-up Chevys and Fords, I never belonged to that subculture and never joined it later.
Nearly every car I've ever owned, from the early 1970s onward, has had a four-cylinder engine. I don't have room in my garage for a piece of automotive art that I only drive on special occasions. But my daily driver has a custom tune, custom turbo, custom exhaust, custom suspension, etc. And I belong to a group of enthusiasts, some of whom are into cars just as heavily as many of the "vintage" car owners. Just an entirely different generation of cars, for a different generation of car junkies.
John Galt | 6.29.12 @ 4:02PM
Like many things (e.g. rock'n'roll), the hot rod scene belongs to the Baby Boom generation, and will die with the Baby Boom generation. I too used to lament the realization that today's teens couldn't care less about the things that teens cared about in the '60s and '70s. Then I figured out that the previous generations probably couldn't understand why we loved rock'n'roll and cool cars instead of the malt shop, building crystal radio sets, and joining the Army. No need to lament, my friend. We had it, we enjoyed it, and it will be forever ours. Let the kids figure out what they like. Then when their kids find something different, they can lament how their times have changed too.
P.S. Your inflation point doesn't hold water. Today's teens and young 20s live in a time of 2% inflation and easy access to mommy and daddy's guilt money. They have BMWs and Lexuses instead. The teens and 20s of your times lived in a time of 10% to 13% inflation and had parents who didn't just hand out cash, cars, and gifts to cover their own feelings of guilt and inadequacy.
scotchieguy| 6.30.12 @ 9:50AM
Excellent point, John Galt. I am 52. I used to work on my 66 chev and 67 Camaro when I was a kid. I also am a guitarist. When I was 17, all I could do is jam with my buddies. Today, there is so much recording equipment it would make your head spin.
Today, I know dozens of musicians who have state of the art recording studios in their basements that would blow away the professional recording studios of the 1960's.
Everything has changed. As much as I love old vehicles, face it, these collectors are all becoming dinosaurs.
On another note, I am also a contractor who restores old homes. I just cringe at what I see being built today--vinyl siding, cheap plastic windows with fake muntins, gas fireplaces, pergo, plastic six-paneled doors, plastice door and window casing meant to simulate oak, etc. Cheap, cheap, cheap, oh but the R-factor is great!!! The Feds love that. I am such a good lil citizen!!
Boats| 6.29.12 @ 4:26PM
My first newbie was a 1967 Pontiac Firebird, cold air induction, high lift cam, 390 rear with Hurst shift. All services were done by me, plugs, points, timing. Once smog controls were the law of the land it became an engineering feat to perform maintenance on a car. So much for progress.
ToneDeph| 6.29.12 @ 10:25PM
The 4X4 and off road vehicle crowd is made up of ALL ages!
Occam's Tool| 6.30.12 @ 4:07PM
This is fascinating. I live in small town Minnesota and have an Impala and a GMC, both from a dealer in town. Every three thousand miles, I have them do the standard complete review with oil change and have them do whatever is necessary. They pick up my car from work (with a phone call), and return it to me (with another).
I spend my time reading and working on what makes me over $100.00/hr---my profession. With two small children, and the obsession to do 6 times the Continuing Medical Education I am required to do to keep up to a level I feel comfortable with, I don't have time for this.
I also don't like to put money into a depreciating asset. However, nobody here would be interested in the latest neuropharmacology regarding the overlap between Tourette's and ADHD, so it takes all kinds, I guess.
But I definitely agree that the Baby Boomers are shafting their kids in many ways.