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Political Hay
Allen West and His Critics
About those “78 to 81” congressional Democrats who are “communists.”
Congressman Allen West is being hammered for his comments alleging that certain Democratic members of Congress are communists. It’s the kind of accusation (West is not backing down) that sets liberals seething in rage. An even worse sin was that West dared to quantify his accusation, attaching a number to the alleged Reds. He said there are “78 to 81” Congressional Democrats who are communists.
Naturally, all of this is a huge no-no, reflexively sending liberals into fits and shouts of “McCarthyism!”
I want to say three things relating to West’s remarks: First, some criticism of West’s critics. Second, a defense of West’s critics. And, finally, some criticism of West, which I offer constructively. I like Allen West, consider him a rising star in the Republican Party and conservative movement, and want him to succeed.
First, on West’s critics:
Their concern about West’s exaggeration and name-calling and lack of “civility” has little credibility coming from an ideology (liberalism) and political party (Democrats) that thrive on exaggeration and name-calling and a lack of civility. I could easily point out a litany of examples. It’s as simple as the latest liberal/Democrat gambit accusing Republicans of a “war on women” merely because they believe the federal government shouldn’t force taxpayers to fund contraception and Planned Parenthood. For that crime, West’s colleague Maxine Waters called Republicans “demons.” Nancy Pelosi said they want women to “die on the floor.” Dianne Feinstein insisted they want “to sock it to women.” Harry Reid claimed Republicans have placed a “bull’s eye on women.” Barbara Boxer described it as a “vendetta” against women. And, in sum, Congresswoman Barbara Lee called it a GOP “war on women.”
I could go on and on. We all could. Do a Google search on the words “George W. Bush” and “Hitler” or “Nazi.” Or recall the obscene statements from Democratic lawmakers regarding the Iraq war. Remember that Senator Dick Durbin compared our troops at Gitmo to “Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime — Pol Pot or others.”
But only when a Rush Limbaugh blows his top — or someone like Allen West issues charges like this one — does the New York Times start issuing calls for civility.
Point made. Now, for my second and third points:
Allen West needs to be much more careful. He sloppily overlapped categories and blurred key lines of distinction — which, as a brilliant thinker who makes nuanced distinctions, he doesn’t usually do. Of course, the Left makes this easy for us to do. Witness my last piece for American Spectator, which focused on The Nation’s list of all-time most influential “progressives.” Number one was a socialist, Eugene Debs. Also on the list were hardcore communists like Paul Robeson, who literally loved Stalin — and actually won the Stalin Prize. The list is filled with Soviet sympathizers, dupes, and even a onetime Soviet agent. Moreover, Allen West is totally correct in stating that communists have long used the word “progressive” as a cover. If I had a dollar for every communist or communist front that masked itself as “progressive,” I’d be a multi-millionaire. I could show example after example from Soviet Comintern archives, CPUSA documents, the Daily Worker, you name it.
Nonetheless, that said, the left side of the political spectrum is very broad. It includes Democrats, liberals, progressives, “social-justice” Christians, socialists, communists, Marxists, Leninists, Stalinists, Maoists, and more. There are distinct differences, even if and when a liberal Democrat favors something that Marx favored. For instance, point 2 in Marx’s 10-point plan in The Communist Manifesto calls for “a heavy progressive or graduated income tax.” Advocates of this include basically the entirety of the Democratic membership of the House of Representatives — but it doesn’t make them Marxists. Consider point 3 in Marx’s 10-point plan, which calls for “abolition of all rights of inheritance.” Many “liberals” and “progressives” advocate that to some degree (via taxation), but I know of no Congressional Democrat calling for complete abolition of all rights of inheritance.
Likewise, Marx wrote this: “the theory of the communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property.” Liberals happily place all kinds of restrictions on private property, but I know of no Congressional Democrat who would go as far as Lenin and Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot and Castro.
Here’s the reality that often complicates things for conservatives as we look at the Left: Liberals agree with communists on many key sympathies — workers’ rights, the spreading and redistribution of wealth, a narrow to non-existent income gap, a central government offering a wide array of “free” government services, a favoring of the public sector over the private sector, class-based rhetoric (often demagoguery) toward the wealthy, progressively high tax rates, an expansive federal government, a cynicism of business and capitalism, to name a few. The differences are matters of degree, but they are crucial differences — so crucial, in fact, that liberals are not communists.
Allen West didn’t say that every liberal in Congress is a communist. Yet, he did say that there is a huge portion. Even worse, in his initial statement, he said that “78 to 81” were actual Communist Party members, or about 40 percent of the Democratic membership. Clearly that’s not accurate. If it is, then West should be chiseled into Mt. Rushmore for exposing the greatest threat to Washington since the War of 1812 — and we should commence a national march to the Capitol right now, with torches.
I assume that West misspoke, and meant communists (lower case “c”) in ideology, not actual card-carrying Communist Party members.
Sure, West appears to be thinking of the far-left Democratic Socialists of America, many of whose members justifiably invite suspicions, as well as the Congressional Progressive Caucus. What he ought to say, however, is that a large number of them share some sympathies and even certain goals with communists, but they’re not full-blown CPUSA members.
About the Author
Paul Kengor is professor of political science and executive director of The Center for Vision & Values at Grove City College. He is author of the new book The Communist: Frank Marshall Davis, The Untold Story of Barack Obama’s Mentor. His other books include The Crusader: Ronald Reagan and the Fall of Communism and Dupes: How America’s Adversaries Have Manipulated Progressives for a Century.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (440) | Leave a comment
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JimP| 5.4.12 @ 6:48AM
With due respect to Dr. Kengor, he is pointing out distinctions without a difference, so to speak. Sure most if not all Democrats are not card carrying CPUSA communists. That being said, does anyone think Maxine Waters, for only one example, would NOT go totally Stalinist if given the opportunity? The reason the Dems, and maybe even some establishment Repubs, are not official members of CPUSA isn't because they disagree with Stalin, Mao, Lenin, Che, Fidel or any of the other communist/porgessive 'intellectuals'. It is because they couldn't get elected if they came out as communists/fascists/socialists [these are all variations on the same theme and in the USA they have been given euphemisms like "progressive" or coopted terms like "liberal"to disguise the reality.
I say good for Allen West and keep it up.
W| 5.4.12 @ 7:15AM
Several years ago there were stories that over seventy members of Congress were also members of the Democratic Socialists of America. I believe most of the Black Caucus members, and the usual supects like Barney Frank. Does anyone remeber this or have any information?
JimP| 5.4.12 @ 7:28AM
Now that you mention it, that report does sound familiar. I can't recall any of the details at this time though about dates, members etc.
Tom| 5.4.12 @ 7:30AM
This site (and its companion KeyWiki) cover the Democratic Socialists of America in great detail:
http://www.trevorloudon.com/
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 8:34AM
That's ridiculous. Allen West is a creep, but get's in the news like Ann Coulter does - by being outrageous - and wrong, but outrageous and apparently enjoyed by the lunatic fringe on the right.
W| 5.4.12 @ 8:38AM
Purp
What does the lunatic fringe on the left enjoy?
Lummox| 5.4.12 @ 9:54AM
W..... didn't you get the memo? There are no lunatics on the left. They're all civil, pacifist, and smarter than the rest of us rubes.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 10:33AM
Well, sounds a little too strong, but okay.
Lyneuss Fields | 5.6.12 @ 1:01PM
Well W, as you can observe on America's streets, The Lunatic Left enjoys breaking windows, up-turning cars and burning down buildings. That's change America can believe in".
Von Mises Jr| 5.4.12 @ 8:55AM
Perp, Riddle me this:
Rousseau in the Social Contract 1762 said "If one does not bend to the General Will, he must be forced to be FREE."
How can one be forced to be free? Perhaps Rousseau and you believe that we must be FORCED to give you things for FREE?
Now don't change the subject, troll! And answer the question.
Vern Crisler| 5.4.12 @ 10:53AM
I think it's a mistake to quote Rousseau as in favor of communism or totalitarianism. Rousseau often wrote in a paradoxical style for literary effect, but his basic political philosophy was still Lockean.
Al Adab| 5.4.12 @ 11:24AM
There is a group of Congerssmen, numbering about 75 or 80 who caucas as the Progressive-Socialist Caucas. So what part of "we have Socialists in our own governmetnt" is incorrect?
Von Mises Jr| 5.4.12 @ 11:54AM
Vern, my friend. Once again you make an accurate and interesting point. Bertrand Russel writes in "The History of Western Philosophy" page 690 "The Social Contract was even more dangerous, for it advocated democracy and denied the divine right of kings."
But at the same time, William Sahakain in "Ideas of the Great Philosophers" points out that Rousseau believed that "small states should be ruled by democracy; middle-sized states, an aristocracy; and large states a Monarchy." He always favors a small group ruling based on the "General Will" that seems authoritarian, and his theory says the collective is sovereign.
I have the Social Contract in its entirety and you encourage me to read it carefully. He is listed by Russel with the Romantic movement including Hegel, Kant, Nietzsche and Marx. But perhaps ther is a nuance I did not understand without reading his words. Thanks, my friend.
Vern Crisler| 5.4.12 @ 2:48PM
Wikipedia has a good discussion of the general will:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_will
Von Mises Jr| 5.4.12 @ 3:53PM
You might have me on this one. But I defer to Perp. He is the scholar of philosophy.
Did Caliban ever answer my question?
Lyneuss Fields | 5.6.12 @ 2:35PM
But Vern, Rousseau abhorred culture, and many times in his writings stated that he preferred man to exist as an individual identity apart from a corrupted society. Locke, on the other hand, spoke of a social contract for justification of living in Society. See This:
http://www.polk-fl.net/staff/t.....eiches.pdf
SUBVET| 5.4.12 @ 6:20PM
VON......there you go "purp" got your goat.
When are you (so called) intellects on this site going to learn. Don't give this POS the time of day.
SUBVET| 5.4.12 @ 6:22PM
Oh ........and goes for you to JACK.
Jack in Wi.| 5.4.12 @ 10:06PM
Alan West is just another Neocon warmonger. But at least he isn't a chickenhawk like most of the rest of them.
JT| 5.6.12 @ 12:22PM
Thanks for that insightful analysis asshole.
Dai Alanye | 5.4.12 @ 9:35AM
I don't mean to call names, of course, being completely dedicated to political correctness... but doesn't Purp sound like a communist? And a creep? And an abuser of apostrophes?
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 10:38AM
I guess you're trying to be funny.
Mimi Mayes | 5.4.12 @ 10:50AM
If you don't know that your "get's" is an abuse of an apostrophe, then you didn't get the joke. Which doesn't surprise me.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 4:14PM
oh, i get it, i just think it was stupid to point out a typo. '"L'''"...
Alej| 5.4.12 @ 12:33PM
I guess you don't know you're being mocked.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 4:15PM
wow, now i am so ashamed... i should go vote Republicant now.
Von Mises Jr| 5.5.12 @ 9:42AM
You should take a long walk on a short pier.
Can you answer my riddle, Caliban?
Alan Brooks| 5.7.12 @ 12:25AM
"wow, now i am so ashamed... i should go vote Republicant now."
I did so in the '80s-- wont ever do that again!
Von Mises Jr| 5.5.12 @ 9:47AM
Get's is a grammatical shortcut for ”get is.”
Caliban's (see how it's used troll) grammar is still superior to his economics.
Drunken Sailor| 5.4.12 @ 10:52AM
Wrong? Really? Huh, then I guess you would disagree with this as well..
Q: How many members of the U.S. Congress are also members of the DSA?
A: Seventy!
Q: How many of the DSA members sit on the Judiciary Committee?
A: Eleven: John Conyers [Chairman of the Judiciary Committee], Tammy Baldwin, Jerrold Nadler, Luis Gutierrez, Melvin Watt, Maxine Waters, Hank Johnson, Steve Cohen, Barbara Lee, Robert Wexler, Linda Sanchez [there are 23 Democrats on the Judiciary Committee of which eleven, almost half, are now members of the DSA].
Q: Who are these members of Congress?
A: See the listing below
Co-Chairs
Hon. Raúl M. Grijalva (AZ-07)
Hon. Lynn Woolsey (CA-06)
Vice Chairs
Hon. Diane Watson (CA-33)
Hon. Sheila Jackson-Lee (TX-18)
Hon. Mazie Hirono (HI-02)
Hon. Dennis Kucinich (OH-10)
Senate Members
Hon. Bernie Sanders (VT)
House Members
Hon. Neil Abercrombie (HI-01)
Hon. Tammy Baldwin (WI-02)
Hon. Xavier Becerra (CA-31)
Hon. Madeleine Bordallo (GU-AL)
Hon. Robert Brady (PA-01)
Hon. Corrine Brown (FL-03)
Hon. Michael Capuano (MA-08)
Hon. André Carson (IN-07)
Hon. Donna Christensen (VI-AL)
Hon. Yvette Clarke (NY-11)
Hon. William “Lacy” Clay (MO-01)
Hon. Emanuel Cleaver (MO-05)
Hon. Steve Cohen (TN-09)
Hon. John Conyers (MI-14)
Hon. Elijah Cummings (MD-07)
Hon. Danny Davis (IL-07)
Hon. Peter DeFazio (OR-04)
Hon. Rosa DeLauro (CT-03)
Rep. Donna F. Edwards (MD-04)
Hon. Keith Ellison (MN-05)
Hon. Sam Farr (CA-17)
Hon. Chaka Fattah (PA-02)
Hon. Bob Filner (CA-51)
Hon. Barney Frank (MA-04)
Hon. Marcia L. Fudge (OH-11)
Hon. Alan Grayson (FL-08)
Hon. Luis Gutierrez (IL-04)
Hon. John Hall (NY-19)
Hon. Phil Hare (IL-17)
Hon. Maurice Hinchey (NY-22)
Hon. Michael Honda (CA-15)
Hon. Jesse Jackson, Jr. (IL-02)
Hon. Eddie Bernice Johnson (TX-30)
Hon. Hank Johnson (GA-04)
Hon. Marcy Kaptur (OH-09)
Hon. Carolyn Kilpatrick (MI-13)
Hon. Barbara Lee (CA-09)
Hon. John Lewis (GA-05)
Hon. David Loebsack (IA-02)
Hon. Ben R. Lujan (NM-3)
Hon. Carolyn Maloney (NY-14)
Hon. Ed Markey (MA-07)
Hon. Jim McDermott (WA-07)
Hon. James McGovern (MA-03)
Hon. George Miller (CA-07)
Hon. Gwen Moore (WI-04)
Hon. Jerrold Nadler (NY-08)
Hon. Eleanor Holmes-Norton (DC-AL)
Hon. John Olver (MA-01)
Hon. Ed Pastor (AZ-04)
Hon. Donald Payne (NJ-10)
Hon. Chellie Pingree (ME-01)
Hon. Charles Rangel (NY-15)
Hon. Laura Richardson (CA-37)
Hon. Lucille Roybal-Allard (CA-34)
Hon. Bobby Rush (IL-01)
Hon. Linda Sánchez (CA-47)
Hon. Jan Schakowsky (IL-09)
Hon. José Serrano (NY-16)
Hon. Louise Slaughter (NY-28)
Hon. Pete Stark (CA-13)
Hon. Bennie Thompson (MS-02)
Hon. John Tierney (MA-06)
Hon. Nydia Velazquez (NY-12)
Hon. Maxine Waters (CA-35)
Hon. Mel Watt (NC-12)
Hon. Henry Waxman (CA-30)
Hon. Peter Welch (VT-AL)
Hon. Robert Wexler (FL-19)
<!--[if supportMisalignedColumns]-->
Source: Congressional Progressive Caucus
http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/.....embers.htm
Drunken Sailor| 5.4.12 @ 10:55AM
And another site that list info from the Socialst party of America.
http://www.americanthinker.com.....a_rev.html
Al Adab| 5.4.12 @ 11:26AM
Is there any reason to wonder why our property and incomes are being taken for support of constituant groups. These are traitors to the nation even though the Constitutional definition is not met. What can be done about officials like these?
Jack London| 5.4.12 @ 11:53AM
Al - do you really think that about half of Americans - the ones that vote/support Democrats - are anti-American and want to destroy democracy and set up a totalitarian state? Is this in your mind as you go about your life?
Drunken Sailor| 5.4.12 @ 12:16PM
Do we think about half of Americans are anti-american because they vote Democrat. No, we think many of them are, some are just clueless and ill informed. Some mean well but don't think their decisions through and act on emotion, and others have not come to the realization that the Democrats are no longer the same party their grandparents belonged to. Todays Democrat party has taken a hard left. Very noticeable since Howard Dean was the Chairman. Even more so today.
Jack London| 5.4.12 @ 12:55PM
" Todays Democrat party has taken a hard left."
But that's nonsense. As so many people have said. it's the GOP that's taken a hard right. You're just brainwashing yourself with talk radio. It isn't true.
Drunken Sailor| 5.4.12 @ 1:51PM
Sorry Jack, but it's true. Both parties drifted left. It is only recently that the Republicans are feeling the pressure to drift back to the right.
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 10:58PM
OK guys, let's have some conspiracy fun: a forensic tech who apparently worked on the Breitbart case has recently been noted to have died of Arsenic poisoning:
Just two months after conservative firebrand Andrew Breitbart died of a sudden heart attack, a Los Angeles coroner has died of suspicious circumstances.
Sources told the Los Angeles Times that Michael Cormier, 61, appears to have died of arsenic poisoning on April 20, the day the Los Angeles coroner's office released their preliminary autopsy report on Mr Breitbart.
Conspiracy theorists and some of Mr Breitbart's fans say that the timing, as well as the manner in which Mr Cormier died, makes compelling evidence of a sinister connection between the two men's deaths.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....z1u3NrqQkD"
Now, as an MD, let me grab by Dreisbach's Handbook of Poisoning, which no good psychiatrist should be without: "the fatal dose is 120 mg. In the USA, the allowable food residue is limited by Federal law to 1.4 mg/kg."
I can also tell you that of the hundreds of overdoses I have dealt with after, NOT ONE has ever been arsenic poisoning. Arsenic poisoning is miserable and painful, Dreisbach again, page 271: "After ingestion of overwhelming amounts of arsenic (10 times the MLD), initial symptoms are those of violent gastroenteritis: burning espohageal pain, vomiting, and copious watery or bloody diarrhea containing shreds of mucus..."
No body commits suicide that way, folks. OD people want to fall asleep and die.
So, if it isn't suicide, and arsenic poisoning is extremely rare, how was it done? Hmmmm.....
From the mainstream media: crickets.
And purp, if you like guns so much, why do you support a President who wants to remove them?
Reprobate Charlatan Vomitus| 5.5.12 @ 11:18PM
I don't bother with silly alibis on cutting this post a little short to consult my little pink book to line up what I was doing that day matters.
Crassus| 5.4.12 @ 2:59PM
Name one conservative Democrat, Jackie Boy. Bill Clinton doesn't count.
Luis Stecca| 5.5.12 @ 6:48PM
There are a few, maybe 3 or 4, democrats that receive an "A" rating from the NRA... Does that make those 3 or 4 democrats conservative ? Not nessassarily
sirbourbon| 5.6.12 @ 9:39AM
Are you saying the NRA is "conservative?" The most famous of the NRA president's was the liberal actor Charleston Heston. Heston was a strong proponent of the 1968 Gun control Act. So if the NRA is such "conservative" organization why in heaven's name elect Heston president when this actor was lobbying viewers on late night television shows plugging the merits of the marxist Gun control Act? http://www.gunownersalliance.com/moses-1.htm
If every single one of the people mentioned by Allen West was a card carrying communist his or her effectiveness would be next to nil. But as progressives or as socialists they are more dangerous because they an hide their motivations behind a title. Heston hid his behind an image just as Nixon, Bush I asnd Bush II hid their leftwing tendencies behind the "conservative" label.
The late congressman Larry P. McDonald said what Allen West discovered but he said it over over 30 years ago! And before Larry McDonald Joe McCarthy was wondering who in our government, in congress and in the highest levels of government was protecting communists. In the early nineteen eighties the Georgia constitutionalist, Democrat from Georgia said analized congress's leftwing persuasion was being led leftward by a hard core of "Marxists." This core of leftwingers said McDonald was exerting a greater influence on the direction of the congress than the 20 or so constitutionalists. His solution ws to grow the constitutionalist core to move the country back to limited government and to stay within the rules of Constitution in order to defend liberty and prosperity by protecting idividual liberty and private property. Larry P. McDoanld was not a party man (Democrat) but a Constitution man- for the country.
McDonald was a member of a hardcore of constitutionalist organized by Robert Welch in 1958. McDonald a physician joined Welch's John Birch Society and later became the JBS's leader. He was a threat to the marxist core he spoke of in his many speeches he delivered across this nation warning Americans about this core of marxists and how we could save America by building the Americanist core in congress! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 1:23PM
The Democrat Party relies on the useful idiots and useless moochers as their base. Only 20% of people self identify as liberal/progressive so they got to get another 30% that are either ill informed or are paid off.
Surly Curmudgen| 5.4.12 @ 12:28PM
Communism/socialism/progressive/liberal/democrat, with all five terms the end result is enslavement of their citizens. Eighty to ninety percent of those who vote for and support the Democrat party are not anti-American. However they have not examined the lies fed them by the small faction that controls their party. That faction knows their political ideas are a failure, always has been and always will be a failure. That faction will continue to manipulate those they lie to in order to enhance their power and wealth. That faction most certainly is anti- American and wants to destroy this Republic.
Al Adab| 5.4.12 @ 3:46PM
Jack:
In re your query do I think most Democrat voters are anti-American. NO although certainly a significant minority are. I do think they fall into two roughly defined categories.
1: Those who still believe "The Democrats are for the working people".
2: Those who believe people have a right to the earnings of others for the sake of redistribution of wealth or fairness.
As I say, these are rough categories but it pretty much encompasses the range of Democrat voters.
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:23PM
No.
Half are communists who want to destroy democracy.
The other half are stupid.
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 10:26PM
Yup.
richard ryan| 5.7.12 @ 1:56PM
1. they are ignorant
2. they stupid
3. overly emotional
Drunken Sailor| 5.4.12 @ 12:13PM
Al, it sad but not much can be done other than try to educate the voters and vote these parasites out. Have a good weekend my friend.
Al Adab| 5.4.12 @ 2:41PM
Thanks DS:
What we have is a situation where these peo9ple took an oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution. Their agenda is anti-constitution and includes such things as social-welfare programs and redistribution. That means they in fact took their oaths with mental reservations in violation of the oath. They are foreseorn. The question arises: Do those who do such in violation of the oath suffer consequences as a result. If so what might those consequences be?
BTW, yes the once proud, patriotic DEM party hase been co-opted by the extreme Left.
DS, you have a good weekend too
Jack, I would be interested in your opinion on the oath matter. Not polemics please, but analysis.
Alej| 5.4.12 @ 12:36PM
"What can be done about officials like these?"
Reinstitute STRICT voter qualifications so that the parasites of America will not be able to elect scum like Sheila Jackson Lee, et similar, to legislate our hard-earned income and retirement into vote bait.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 4:21PM
You're losing way more to the Corporatists you support, but you are blind to it... your loss.
Al Adab| 5.4.12 @ 5:26PM
Purp:
Looking for help here. Do my mutual funds make me a corporatist? They certainly are nice when I realize about 1% per month gain off them. Should investment be punished or discouraged? Does my personal goal of living off investment income make me some sort of pariah?
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:24PM
I'll take the corporatists over the socialists any day.
You fools couldn't organize a trip to the toilet.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 11:54PM
Me too. I never said I was or subscribe to be a socialist - your propaganda just can't do anything but label others as socialist - like it's some degrading thing. It's not, but go ahead have your ridiculous fun.
Matthew S. Harrison| 5.5.12 @ 8:48PM
Ahhh Purp, you went there-"corporatists"------progressive code word for Capitalists-The very capitalists like the Wall Street guys who give tens of millions to your campaigns? or the GE's and Apple's and Berkshire's who are in the DNC/Progressive pockets, get special treatment, and magically pay no taxes, while sheltering their earnings off shore?
I see. You want your cake and want to eat it. You will blow anyone necessary to push your progressive agenda-take money from the various capitalists you rail on against, and then come to public forums, just like your "president" to bash them, just after their checks clear.
You are a tool bag Purp-just like all other progs who think that you are Democrats.
The right hasn't swung far right. We have just decided to stop allowing our representation to compromise our core principles any longer.
It is subversive commies like you who support the destruction of our constitution, who claim it is a "living document", just so that you can remove amendments, and piss on what's left of the constitution.
Go away. You morons hate America and the American way so much, then fucking leave! Get out. Round up the Van Jones's, Louis FarraCON's, and Bill Ayers' of the world and go to a real communist country. I guarantee that 6 months without your SUV's, cable television, on-demand doctors visits, and un-spoiled food, you'll be back, hat in hand, and ready to live by the rule of our land.
Now, just go away. You are a turd, an ignoramus and boring.
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 10:25PM
It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.
- Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
- Mark Twain, a Biography
Mr. Sailorman: I do believe that all of the Democratic Members of Congress you have named above fall into the two categories that Twain named above.
As for Mr. London's comments: !)I know that half of my fellow Americans don't pay taxes, 2)half of them have IQs under 100, 3) half of them or so vote Democrat, and 4) half care much more about who wins American Idol than they do about the deficit. I think that Mr. London would agree with all the facts laid out above, since the answer is 47% of Americans on the taxes, the IQ statement is self-evident, and I doubt he would disagree on the American Idol comment. The half voting Deomocrat is obvious in the way Barack Obama won the Presidency.
Now, the question is one, how many of those things overlap, and two, does he believe that he, Jack London, Democrat and Liberal, is more in favor of Capitalism or is it the Razor writing this comment. I think the answer is me.
Given all of that, the only question is do my four categories overlap greatly or don't they? The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.
Jack, read the Iron Heel and compare/contrast with Atlas Shrugged, sir. Good day.
TLP| 5.4.12 @ 11:08AM
Nice job.
Drunken Sailor| 5.4.12 @ 12:17PM
Thanks but I'm sure he missed the point or simply refuses to see it.
TLP| 5.4.12 @ 3:03PM
What do they say?
Oh yeah.
You just can't fix stupid.
Have a good weekend.
Drunken Sailor| 5.4.12 @ 4:14PM
Same to you.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 4:19PM
Congressional Progressive Caucus - go to their site and name one thing you disagree with ... http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/.....tionTree=1
"TYSK" what the h* is that? A FAQ? Gee that's a good source of bs.
You will believe anything...
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 9:05PM
I disagree with all of it.
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 10:59PM
Dr. R: I second that.
Denise| 5.4.12 @ 6:21PM
HOW many in the Senate? Barack Hussein Obama should be added to the list. He was quickly removed from the DSA list in 2008 when it hit the news.
Hon. Emanuel Cleaver (MO-05) isn't he the one who lied about being spit on during the Obamacare march?
A few of these people lost their re-election in 2010, thank God.
And Danny Davis IS A COMMUNIST and Obama just loves him some Communist Davis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36Ncey79sHM
Simon Templar| 5.4.12 @ 11:26AM
You can not refute the claims so you start the name calling. Typical. Progressive Troll!
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 4:22PM
Spoken like a true conservative right wing lunatic fringe baby eating mouth breather. See? I can do it too. How mature we are... Loser.
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:25PM
Spoken like a dumb, ignorant leftist who knows so much that isn't so.
George True| 5.4.12 @ 1:00PM
Allen West is a CREEP? Really, Purp? Really?!?! Allen West is a West Point graduate, was a career Army officer, and sacrificed his own career to protect the men under his command from terrorist attack if Iraq. And this is your definition of a creep?
This is precisely why you and your ilk represent such a real threat to all that is good and holy, and to the principles that our nation were founded upon. You call good evil, and evil good. You have a completely twisted and perverted sense of what is right and wrong.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 4:25PM
Yeah, an embarrassment to West Point. I guess the war changed him, 'cause he sure ain't the same hero the way he lashes out at Americans. He has nothing good or holy about him anymore, but believe what you will. He's a disgrace to the Congress, his service, and is a disgusting misogynist to boot. He needs counseling, and anyone who looks up to him needs some serious help.
Al Adab| 5.4.12 @ 5:20PM
Purp:
That one is over the line.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 5:31PM
This is how liberals really feel about blacks who step out of the Democrat plantation just like with Clarence Thomas and Hermann Cain.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 11:56PM
Actually, no. I like Herman Cain .. Thomas is another matter. Born black and with the tolerance of a gnat - go figure.
But I'm sure any African-American would consider your remark quite insulting. Not that you care, you have no decency.
Nathan| 5.4.12 @ 7:37PM
Sorry West is not a hero, he took an Iraqi policeman, one who had worked with Americans before, and put him in a room. Now he was aware of stories that he was the target of an assassination effort on the part of the bad guys and he also thought that the policeman Hamoodi, knew of possible ambushes coming up. So with the BEST OF INTENTIONS (everyone who misebahaves has THE BEST OF INTENTIONS) he allows his men to first beat him up. That gets nothing, Being frustrated he pulls him over to a barrel, cocks his handgun and carries out a mock execution.
Now let's understand something here. By his own admission, West had zero training in interrogation. So pray tell what business did he have conducting one. He has no idea what he's doing or if it's going to work. Hamoodi, scared out of his mind, gives up a name. Hamoodi is held for 40 days, never charged, later released. The perfect profile of a bad guy right?
They go to the home of the guy Hamoodi named. Shockingly, just shockingly, they find NOTHING. What a surprise. Why did this happen? Because when you're being tortured, and what West did meets the definition, look it up, people will say and do anything to make it stop. Look that up too folks. Why does the military prohibit it? Because the know most information gotten by torture is garbage. Mostly unreliable.
At his hearing, West admitted he "may" have made a mistake. Generous of him.
Now understand that what West did violated military law, general American Law, and the Constititution itself. And what oath did West take folks? To defend his troops? NO. To uphold and defend THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES! And if there's a conflict between that and his troops, well I got news for all of you, the Constitution is going to win, MUST WIN every singly TIME! This is a volunteer army, everyone assumes the risk and the Constitution is paramount here, must always be so. Go back and look at the 1866 Supreme Court ruling sometime. Or find me any I mean any quote from the Founders that support what he did. Not from Washington who knowing that POWs under the British in Philly were being mistreated insisted nontheless that POW's under our control be treated correctly. So all you good Founders loving "conservatives" find quotes from them defending West's behavior. Good luck because there aren't any.
Senator Warner said West didn't break the law, he "rose above it". Oh yeah. I tell you what try that line on the state police next time you get pulled over or on the IRS when you get audited and see how far YOU get.
And I tell you what I'll pose a question for all you defenders of West. An Iraqi captures a female American soldier under West's command. Now he doesn't rape her, he ties her up, beats the crap out of her, and carries out a mock execution on her. Later West captures this dude. The man says, hey I thought she had information that would save a lot of my men's lives. Now what does West do? 1. I understand man, I feel it, go home, you didn't do anything wrong, or 2: send this evil SOB to Abu Ghraib, I'll deal with him later. Oh come on now, you all know what the answer is, he send this SOB to Abu Ghraib because the dude tortured a soldier under his command and frankly, all of you WANT him to. And if it's wrong for the Iraqi to do it, and it is, then it was wrong for West to do it. West, a senior office has to set an example, has to show what playing by the rules is all about for his troops. He failed that and for that he is no hero.
And what on earth was the republican party doing going anywhere near this guy? Trust me, if he violated his oath of office once, he WILL do it again. And then all of you will express SHOCK and wonder how could a man like this misbehave? Easy. Because folks he already has.
Joe Callan| 5.6.12 @ 9:50AM
As a retired soldier and a 3 tour Iraq vet, I would much rather have Allen West as my battalion commander than some ass kisser like John Kerry.
Hank Rearden| 5.4.12 @ 5:22PM
What has Ann Coulter been wrong on?
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:26PM
She dissed my offer of a date. I w I'll never forgive her.
Al Adab| 5.4.12 @ 6:43PM
Hank:
She backed Romney.
Skippy| 5.5.12 @ 4:22PM
Turns out she was right.
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 11:01PM
Dr Right: she dated the son of the founder of Penthouse. She may be a Conservative, but she's also a double bagger, my friend.
Word to the wise, sir.
JimP| 5.4.12 @ 8:05PM
Purp, you need to study up on communism/fascism/socialism and then study up on American politics. Then compare what has been going on here with the more virulent strains of socialism overseas over the last century. Socialism is like being a little pregnant. Some beasts have a longer gestation period, but pregnant is pregnant just like socialism and regradless of how long it takes to get to term, tyranny is always where it leads.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 11:59PM
Oh, and an aristocracy, American style is so much less tyrannical? You worry about the wrong things boys. While you are worrying about the little things, the 1% is taking away your country buying your government, and laughing behind your back while your jobs go overseas to make them richer.
JimP| 5.5.12 @ 8:35PM
Sorry for the delay in responding. You response is irrelevant. We're talking about socialists- in all their guises. Your complaint is for another discussion. No one said American aristocrats who behave like tyranst are better than socialists. Stick to the subject and don't try to change it because you have no valid argument to make.
Pete| 5.4.12 @ 10:15PM
Actually considering who this is coming from, West actually understated the number of Democrats who are Communist in Congress. All of them are. If one Democrat was not Communist he would quickly leave the Party because he could not agree with anything they say or do. They are want to supress the individual, centralize power and be the elites (party members) who get to boss the rest of us around. They all want to take our possessions and use it to put us in our places. They are committed Marxists, and only when it is too late will they actually come out and admit it.
Marc Jeric| 5.5.12 @ 12:02PM
Another name-calling commie/eco-nazi creep of the far left.
Von Mises Jr| 5.4.12 @ 9:09AM
JimP, you are correct per my hero Von Mises. Socialism refers to planned economy v. free market capitalism. There are a myriad of flavors, but they are all socialism.
In the 18th and 19th century we had guild socialism, positivism, behaviorism, historicism, Dialectical Materialism or Marxism (Mises "Theory and History).
Later we had state, military, Christian socialism, as well as communism, fascism, European social democracy (Mises "Socialism").
It is always a clear difference between liberty and compulsion, freedom or force. Given Mises definition, I would say that almost all the Democrats in congress are socialist of some flavor, and the GOP establishment is statist in the Leviathan style.
They change their names and make minor distinctions such as liberals, progressives and statist; but all are socialistic.
TLP| 5.4.12 @ 9:44AM
I believe that too many "Commentators" on our side, fall prey to a "Fear of Flying". They know that they have to get someplace by a certain time, and that they can only get there by Plane, but they're just to afraid of what MIGHT happen, once the Wheels are Retracted.
"What?"
They're afraid to Say what they Mean.
When Mr. Kengor goes out of his way to "justify" himself, by putting up the Straw Dog that "Democrats fall in to many Catagories: Liberal, Progressive, Socialist, Communist, yadda yadda yadda, I'm reminded of the old Preist - Father Marin - in the Exorcist movie. When the younger Preist trys to tell him that he has witnessed a number of different Demons inside the girl, Father Marin stops him in his tracks. "No. There is only ONE."
There is only ONE reason that the Communists, and the Socialists, and the Marxists no longer put up people for Elective Office, like they used to.
They don't need to.
The Democrat Party is already there.
Stand up on your hind legs, like a MAN, and stop Apologizing for what you believe.
We're way past the time, where we can afford these people the Benefit of the Doubt.
Or, hadn't you noticed?
Surly Curmudgen| 5.4.12 @ 12:33PM
Very well said.
Surly Curmudgen| 5.4.12 @ 12:40PM
TLP Very well said. When they start frothing at the mouth denying facts, come right back in their face with more.
darcy| 5.4.12 @ 2:13PM
I agree with you, TLP. Congressman West's comment, I would think, is designed to get people's attention, to wake them up (those people still capable of being woken up), and to get them to start examining their assumptions about the motives of Federal officials. We have an urgent need to awaken people whose opinions are shaped by a pro-statist media; such people are lulled into complacency regarding real danger on the horizon while they are manipulated to believe that any criticism of the current regime (including "progressives" in Congress) is nothing but rank racism. That's the beauty of West's comments: they are true and they cannot be motivated by racism -- that's why the left went berserk; West found a way to pierce the darkness. And any thinking person understands that when it comes to ultimate, utopian, goals there is little daylight among liberal-leftists, of whatever stripe.
Marx's redistributive maxim applies to them all. They all seek the disintegration of the family so that resistance to the state is minimized. And that's just for starters. A plague on all their heads.
TLP| 5.4.12 @ 3:07PM
Couldn'ta said it better myself.
crossworked| 5.5.12 @ 2:02AM
Second Amendment AMEN. We will the government to govern us at our will and protect our freedoms from liberal idiotic over educated fools.
JimP| 5.4.12 @ 8:07PM
VMJr.,
Excellent comment and so very, very accurate. Hopefully Purp will start reading more. Perhaps he'll check out the Mises Institute.
Pete| 5.4.12 @ 10:17PM
Won't matter, as he is just a useful idiot.
olainfree| 5.4.12 @ 9:23AM
Case in point: Note the members of the Congressional Black Caucus that traveled to Cuba in order to celebrate its ideology and economy.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 10:48AM
If you celebrate communist regimes and beliefs, you are a communist at heart and that is Col. West's point. They don't have to be a card carrying member of the Communist Party, especially when the Democrat Party is so accommodating and offers them wealth and power they could not get otherwise. They want to be the pigs in Animal Farm, more equal than others.
Resistanceisfutile| 5.4.12 @ 11:35AM
As to Waters and quite a few others, I do not believe they are very high on the intellectual food chain, Communist-wise. They are not even "Fellow Travelers", but rather are "Useful Idiots".
Sard | 5.4.12 @ 10:32PM
Hold on a dang minute here, with all due respect to Dr. Krengor, BUT ... I read the article until the end and not one time did Krengor ever mention the Congressional Progressive Caucus, which is what I believe West is referring to. Yes, West could've gone through the entire list and accurately labeled which member is a socialist, communist, statist--what have you. But I think it's obvious why he didn't do that at the time he made the remarks: he didn't have the time.
I think Dr. Krengor needs to be a little more careful in his research. West was very calculated in what he said. He wouldn't have said it if he couldn't back it up, in my opinion.
I leave you with a quote from Dr. Krengor's article:
"If I had a dollar for every communist or communist front that masked itself as 'progressive,' I'd be a multi-millionaire. I could show example after example from Soviet Comintern archives, CPUSA documents, the Daily Worker, you name it."
BADDA BING BADDA BOOM!
Members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus
http://keywiki.org/index.php/C.....ive_Caucus
Alan Brooks| 5.4.12 @ 11:43PM
And them thar 81 or thereabouts commies are the ones who paid those five kids ta blow up th' bridge? call J Edgar.
Soljerblue| 5.5.12 @ 5:45AM
Well said, Jim!
The difference is merely one of degree, and that wouldn't even apply if the congressional lefties didn't have to get elected. They can't all live in Vermont, or San Francisco.
Bubba T. | 5.5.12 @ 9:06AM
Mr. Kengor writes:
"The Communist Manifesto calls for a heavy progressive or graduated income tax. Advocates of this include basically the entirety of the Democratic membership of the House of Representatives -- but it doesn't make them Marxists. Consider point 3 in Marx's 10-point plan, which calls for abolition of all rights of inheritance. Many liberals and progressives advocate that to some degree (via taxation), but I know of no Congressional Democrat calling for complete abolition of all rights of inheritance."
Bubba T. sez:
While I'm not a lettered professor with a political doctorate from the University of Screw America, I'll try and keep my unlettered commentary fairly brief. Today's liberal/progressive (choose one) would vote for and be completely in favor of EITHER of the two main points listed in cousin Karl's Manifesto. They just can't get all of it ... yet! But a quick inspection of the raisin trail has shown that the American leftist realizes they can't simply "grab-in-one-swipe" most of what their buddy Karl envisioned, so they slither forward with a piece by piece, nibble by nibble continuation of programs, and sooner or later ... walk away after your pocket has finally been picked. And nobody saw it comin.' At least not enough of them.
Oh yeah, kids. Karl's pals are all still in a party mood. Matter of fact I can still hear the giggling from that extended sleepover at the Marx house next door. Right now, the kids are just hiding under the covers until Mom and Dad finally nod-off to sleep. Thing is, if you just took a moment to follow the trail of dropped Cheetos from the kitchen, it might dawn on you that Mom and Dad nodded-off a very long time ago.
No, I'm afraid the pre-acne crowd now have, pretty much, full run of the house. You doubt? Well, take a look at who's runnin' loose in that big white one just up the street from the Cleaver's place. There's not an adult in sight. At least I don't see one.
Do you?
DG in GA| 5.5.12 @ 10:35AM
I'm with you, Jim. Why do you think they now call themselves "Progressives" instead of "liberals?" Because the liberal tag wasn't polling well anymore. You might also notice that lib - er - progressives - now tend to use the term "conservative extremist" anytime they talk about anyone who is mildly conservative, as if to automatically paint anyone who doesn't agree with them as extreme and out of the mainstream. And, of course, the media will NEVER bring this to the attention of the public. They just play along.
merlin| 5.6.12 @ 8:29AM
JimP,
"distinction without a differrence"
exactly.
Tom| 5.4.12 @ 7:02AM
>>Nonetheless, that said, the left side of the political spectrum is very broad. It includes Democrats, liberals, progressives, "social-justice" Christians, socialists, communists, Marxists, Leninists, Stalinists, Maoists, and more. There are distinct differences, even if and when a liberal Democrat favors something that Marx favored.
Actually they are all the same; West only misspoke in using the phrase "communist" instead of "collectivist" (though had he said "communist and communist fellow-travellers" he'd have been more accurate).
Think of of collectivism as the genus, and Marxism-communism, socialism, fascism and progressivism as different species within the same genus. Yes there are differences between the species, but at the core they are identical.
chalkdust| 5.4.12 @ 7:38AM
Yes there is some minor differants for instance; Progressives would throw their opponates in a gulag only if they could first find someone to write a funny TV showbout life in a gulag.
Crawler| 5.4.12 @ 7:43AM
Agreed.
Allen West may have used the wrong label describing the select America haters in congress, but most of us understood the gist of his accusation. Even his critics understood.
If it talks like a collectivist, walks like a collectivist, and quacks like a collectivist...
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 8:44AM
"America Haters" in Congress? You're off base. "You're right wing policies haters in Congress" yeah, that's true. And 1/2 of America right with them.
Why do you all insist on calling everyone you don't agree with names? It completely destroys any point you are trying to make.
Mike G| 5.4.12 @ 9:49AM
Purp wrote: "Allen West is a creep..."
Purp also wrote:"Why do you all insist on calling everyone you don't agree with names? It completely destroys any point you are trying to make."
Yes, I see what you mean.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 4:27PM
Sometimes on this site I can't help but debase myself to your level - you all do it so much it becomes natural to spew name calling doesn't it?
I can and will do better - will you all?
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:30PM
Don't kid yourself...you're part of the entertainment, here.
You're the perfect example of self-righteous liberal ignorance.
You're as clueless and predictable as any leftist fool. And you spout the talking points like a trained seal.
But bear this in mind: The only thing protecting you vermin is political correctness, and that's starting to fall apart.
The pendulum is swinging back to where it belongs. Better hide.
Purp| 5.5.12 @ 12:00AM
Bring it on man, right into my shotgun ... as if you righties have cornered the gun sales.
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 11:03PM
Purp: what is Obama's position on shotgun sales versus Mitt Romney's?
JT| 5.6.12 @ 12:26PM
By the time you figured out which end of the shotgun you put the shells in and which end you point at your target your brains would be all over the pavement attracting flies friend.
From the Desk of Media Matters| 5.6.12 @ 10:34PM
Dear JT,
MM staff you be honored if you would set the odds of the likelihood of that occurrence happening, for our bottom rung MM mindless retarded parrot Monday Morning Get The Week Started Office Pool.
Sincerely,
- MM staff
ps: Also, the odds there would actually be enough actual brain matter to actually draw actual flies - thanks.
JT| 5.7.12 @ 11:11PM
Good point on the lack of brains!
Dustoff| 5.4.12 @ 9:50AM
Why do you all insist on calling everyone you don't agree with names? It completely destroys any point you are trying to make.
********************************************
Yet YOU just called us America haters. LOL, now getting back to name calling.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 4:31PM
Are you America haters? Or only 1/2 of America haters? I don't hate you - I feel sorry for your misguided interpretation of the 1% that have you buffaloed into voting for their kind and supporters. You vote against your own best interests, and don't even see it.
Standing on your own, doesn't mean standing alone, and isn't a right-wing monopoly. You also don't own family values or love of freedom and certainly have not cornered the market on patriotism or strong national security. You just think you do. The "Daddy party" is quite impotent right now and just can't deliver the goods.
KennesawJack| 5.4.12 @ 10:07AM
Because we are finally learning to play you rules . That's why.
KennesawJack| 5.4.12 @ 10:09AM
Should be "play by your rules." Whoops.
blackwatch| 5.4.12 @ 2:05PM
This site needs a self-edit feature.
TLP| 5.5.12 @ 7:40AM
Never correct yourself K.J. People with brains will know what you meant. I used to do it a lot, as well.
All you accomplish, is to (figuratively) put a Shiny Object, just inside their peripheral vision sphere, which will draw their attention away from your poimt.
TLP| 5.5.12 @ 7:42AM
Damn it!
That last word should have been "point".
albert constantine jr.| 5.5.12 @ 10:34PM
You are even more funny when you demonstrate irony, Mr. Pennell.Even as the grass starts growing and the new mulch goes in, you continue to demonstrate your prowess in communication, along with your professional field.
My least favorite John Wayne line (I think it was from “She Wore a Yellow Ribbon”): “Never apologize. It’s a sign of weakness”. He had so many better lines, including “Life is tough. It’s tougher if you’re stupid (from the “Sands of Iwo Jima”, I believe) or even “That’ll be the day” (from “The Searchers”, and borrowed by Buddy Holly).
Of course, I believe it is better not to make mistakes, but sometimes you have to act before all the data is in. In which case, if I get it wrong, I try to apologize, and move on.
Those of us who are familiar with your more complete body of posts here and enjoy many of your viewpoints, though, will forgive you most trespasses, or an occasional disagreement. Type on.
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 11:04PM
Goodness, I love "The Searchers." Ford was a genius.
TLP| 5.6.12 @ 7:43AM
Do you remember who John Wayne's 1st Officer was, in "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon"?
Not the ACTOR's name. The name of the Character, himself.
The winner will win a Framed Picture of Jack and Clint at the Western Wall, wearing Yarmakas on their stupid heads, stuffing their faces with Gefelte Fish Sandwiches, and standing there, in diapers with a small bit of blood on the front, below a Banner that Reads - I went to the land of milk and honey, and all I got was this Circumcision.
Second Prize is the same thing, only without the diaper.
albert constantine jr.| 5.6.12 @ 9:55PM
Would that be Flint Cohill?
skip| 5.6.12 @ 11:03PM
Tony Orlando.
Occam's Tool| 5.6.12 @ 11:06PM
The actor, I thought, was JOHN AGAR, also known as Mr. Shirley Temple. later to star in many MST3K films.
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 11:03PM
We love ya anyway, TLP.
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:27PM
Yup.
Those of you who want to "transform America" must hate its present composition.
Otherwise, why transform it?
Purp| 5.5.12 @ 12:01AM
You spew hate for Americans every day - so how is it you love America again? You loved the Bush years, didya?
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 11:04PM
The Bush years were heaven compared to the Obama years.
Doctor Right| 5.6.12 @ 6:40AM
Of course. All real Americans did.
The economy rocked, and we kicked ass in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Soljerblue| 5.5.12 @ 5:48AM
We insist on calling you left wing pinko fellow travellers names because, a) those names apply, b) we're simply returning fire (the rules of engagement have changed), and, c), it just makes you whine, cry, get mad, and blow a fuse -- a beautiful sight!
Crawler| 5.4.12 @ 7:43AM
Agreed.
Allen West may have used the wrong label describing the select America haters in congress, but most of us understood the gist of his accusation. Even his critics understood.
If it talks like a collectivist, walks like a collectivist, and quacks like a collectivist...
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 8:46AM
"America Haters" in Congress? You're off base. "You're right wing policies haters in Congress" yeah, that's true. And 1/2 of America right with them.
Why do you all insist on calling everyone you don't agree with names? It completely destroys any point you are trying to make.
Tim the Enchanter| 5.4.12 @ 10:55AM
You're making a crass assumption that you would actually UNDERSTAND the point we're making.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 4:32PM
ruh-roh, now i'm shaking .. that is so profound.
Hank Rearden| 5.4.12 @ 5:34PM
You should be. It is embarrassing to watch a Leftist try to come up with a thought. What comes out is just a jumble of slogans and cliches strung together to fill up space. That's why the Left is always name-calling. What else does it have?
Purp| 5.5.12 @ 4:53PM
It's funny how you use what you always do and project it on the Left, when it's you righties that do all those things you whine about on the Left. It is strangely amusing.
C Bowen | 5.4.12 @ 7:30AM
Why no mention of Allen West's support for the Sharpton mobs and to Eric Holder's DOJ for a local case in the Zimmerman-Martin incident?
That is worthy of actual criticism.
Clint| 5.4.12 @ 10:06PM
Allen West,
" I have sat back and allowed myself time to assess the current episode revealing itself in Sanford, Florida involving the shooting of 17-year-old Treyvon Martin. First of all, if all that has been reported is accurate, the Sanford Police Chief should be relieved of his duties due to what appears to be a mishandling of this shooting in its early stages. The US Navy SEALS identified Osama Bin Laden within hours, while this young man laid on a morgue slab for three days. The shooter, Mr Zimmerman, should have been held in custody and certainly should not be walking free, still having a concealed weapons carry permit. From my reading, it seems this young man was pursued and there was no probable cause to engage him, certainly not pursue and shoot him against the direction of the 911 responder. Let’s all be appalled at this instance not because of race, but because a young American man has lost his life, seemingly, for no reason. I have signed a letter supporting a DOJ investigation. I am not heading to Sanford to shout and scream, because we need the responsible entities and agencies to handle this situation from this point without media bias or undue political influences. This is an outrage."
Pete| 5.4.12 @ 10:21PM
Here in San Diego we just found out that the DEA kept a guy in jail for 5 days with no food, no water as they forgot about him. Where is the uproar? When the incompetence comes from the Fed, they just skate with no oversight whatsoever.
nister| 5.4.12 @ 7:38AM
Question for Allen West: "How many Fascists in the Republican house?"
W| 5.4.12 @ 7:45AM
We have a totalitarian in the White House.
Al Adab| 5.4.12 @ 11:28AM
W:
Absolutely correct W. What people fail to understand is that totalitarians of any stripe oppose the nation. Fascists are not of the "right" even though for convenience we call it such. They were and are socialist in nature.
Jack London| 5.4.12 @ 11:43AM
"Fascists are not of the "right" even though for convenience we call it such. They were and are socialist in nature."
Complete nonsense Al. But you know that. A bit beneath you to descend into Jeffrey Lord land.
W| 5.4.12 @ 12:15PM
Al Adab is correct. Mussolini was a socialist. Hitler's Nazi party was the National Socialists Party.
Fascist refers to the concentration of power in the national government for total control over the lives of the people. . You are confusing the authoritarian dictators such as Franco with the totalitarians such as Stalin, Mao, Castro and all leftists that demand total control by the government over the people's lives.
Lefties use the word fascist whenever they disagree with a Republican in the White House.
Jack London| 5.4.12 @ 12:40PM
Yawn - here we go again. OK - riddle me this. Were the socialists – real socialists that is – who went to fight Franco in the Spanish Civil War to restore a democratic republic actually Nazis? A clue for you: the Nazis were on Franco's side.
W| 5.4.12 @ 1:05PM
Yawn is a good answer.
The Russian commies supported the "democratic republic." They and the democratic republic proceeded to slaughter priests, nuns, and all other opponents to the democratic republic. Are they the real socialists that you refer to? The American Abraham Lincoln Brigade was a collection of commies, socialists, and anarchists. The commies in Spain massacred the anarchists and many of the socialists.
Maybe you should read George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia and his experience in the Spanish Civil War before you answer. The Spanish Civil War is complex and not a good example for you simple question.
Jack London| 5.4.12 @ 5:27PM
By the way I have read Homage to Catalonia. About 30 years ago though.
W| 5.4.12 @ 6:34PM
There is hope then for you, Jack. Have a good weekend.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 1:28PM
Haha Jack, a Democratic Republic like they have in North Korea? One group of totalitarians fighting it out with another for power, damn you are stupid. And who exactly were the "real socialists"?
JmsA| 5.4.12 @ 2:01PM
And the Stalinists were on the side of the republic.
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 11:05PM
On the Republican side were the Soviets. Stalin used that war to test out his military hardware, too.
RCV| 5.4.12 @ 12:55PM
I love the argument that the Nazis were socialists because they adopted the term "national socialists" for their party. There was nothing socialist about the Nazi ideology. They adopted the term "National Socialists" to try to attract workers who were voting for the German Communist party, their rivals and arch-enemies. Does the fact that North Korea calls itself the "Democratic People's Republic" make it a democracy?
W| 5.4.12 @ 1:07PM
No.
Just like the Affordable Health Care Law is not affordable.
TLP| 5.4.12 @ 5:28PM
Nice touch.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 1:30PM
Well clearly you want to believe that regardless of facts RCV. Why don't you look at the Nazi Party Platform and tell me there was nothing socialist about it? And was Mussolini a socialist or not? Jack made the argument the communists in Spain were fighting for a Democratic Republic so maybe he believes that.
Jack London| 5.4.12 @ 2:17PM
Do you really see no difference between socialists such as George Orwell who went to Spain to fight the fascist Franco and the dictators who control North Korea? Seriously? You'd take that on prime time TV and make the case? You'd advise any student to put that in their PhD?
W| 5.4.12 @ 3:16PM
Of course there were differences between the idealists like Orwell and the Russian Commies both fighting on the same side. Orwell, though, was smart enough to see the hypocrisy of being on the same side as the commies, and the eventual outcome with the commies in control. Too many people today have not reached the same decision as Orwell.
BTW I had an idealistic college professor who fought in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, and you happened to select a topic that was our term paper: The Soviet and British/American Response to the Spanish Civil War.
Now answer my questions:
Since you appear to favor socialism, can you name a country that you prefer to the USA that has the socialism you like? And for a socialist economy to work don't you necessarily need a powerful central government to make decisions to control and command the economy?
Jack London| 5.4.12 @ 4:30PM
I support democratic socialism that takes place in a mixed economy, What you seem to forget is that a huge proportion of our wealth is based on government investment in basic science and infrastructure, and on decent taxation. That's what the new extreme GOP wants to trash further in favor of increasing inequality to the limit, it seems.
I admire people in countries such as Brazil, Bolivia, Argentina, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany and others that have the wisdom to vote and support measures for a more equitable society with investment in infrastructure, health and education, and who stand up to international asset stripping, as in the current case of several Latin American countries.
I would suggest a good way to look at our own issues is to reflect on the partnership between industry, government and civil society that worked very well for us until we unleashed the forces of inequality.
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 11:07PM
Orwell could think in an intelligent way, and eventually submitted a letter that outed the Communists who should not write for the British government. Truman and his SecState, on the other hand, covered for Hiss. Read Truman's Plain Speaking.
Great men are capable of great mistakes.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 3:27PM
Just proving how stupid and ill informed you really are Jack by bringing up George Orwell. It was his experience in Spain that led him to write Animal Farm and 1984 as he learned the true nature of communism being an evil totalitarian form of government. He was not writing about Franco but the commies in the Soviet Union.
DRed| 5.4.12 @ 4:00PM
But he stayed a socialist. Which is sort of Jack's point-while their are many similarities between socialism and communism, they're not the same thing. And in the same way, there are similarities between fascism and socialism (or even conservatism), they are not the same thing.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 5:36PM
Jack was referring to the communists in Spain who were in league with the Soviet Union as trying to establish a Democrat Republic and George Orwell saw them for what they were and wrote Animal Farm and 1984 in response. You can make a valid point about the difference between a socialist and communist but Jack is completely wrong about what happened in Spain.
DRed| 5.4.12 @ 6:14PM
Jack is right when he says that Orwell went to Spain to fight with the socialists against the fascists. Orwell fought alongside a non-soviet aligned formerly Trotskyite communist (it's complicated) group called POUM. He was lucky enough to get shot in the throat and was in the hospital when the soviet supported communists arrested and murdered many of his comrades. That's what turned him against communism, (especially it's soviet form) but he went to his grave a socialist.
Jack London| 5.4.12 @ 4:34PM
As DRed says, I support democracy above all. You can find plenty of states that descended into totalitarianism from the right, quite a few of which we did ourselves by installing puppet regimes. Remember Chile?
W| 5.4.12 @ 6:36PM
Todd
The Nazis and Commies believed in gun control and abortion, the sacraments of the lefties.
DRed| 5.4.12 @ 7:13PM
Abortion (for Germans, anyhow) was a crime under the Nazis. The Nazi's also allowed non-Jewish German's to own guns. They relaxed the Weimar Republic's more strict gun control laws, but I suppose they were regulated. Maybe that's leftist? I don't really know. In any event, they were much more permissive than the soviet communists.
Alej| 5.4.12 @ 12:44PM
Read a few books on the subject, and then maybe come back with a post that makes sense.
Fascism is an economic concept.
Totalitarianism is a political concept.
Usually, but not necessarily by definition found together.
DRed| 5.4.12 @ 3:14PM
It seems to me that fascism is more of a political/cultural concept than an economic one. The fascists were fairly flexible when it came to their economic policies. They were, for instance, more than willing to make compromises with conservative business interests in order to gain power. Look at what happened to the Strasser brothers (they were prominent early Nazis who were, to some degree, socialists). One of them was forced out of the party and the other was shot in the head by the SS.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 3:32PM
As long as businessmen serve the "vital interest" of the State, the Nazi's let them make their money. Kind of like what we see today under Obama though we don't live in a dictatorship so his power is limited.
DRed| 5.4.12 @ 3:50PM
I wasn't talking about Obama or your baseless fantasies.
W| 5.4.12 @ 3:18PM
Al Adab
Have a pleasant weekend, my friend.
Al Adab| 5.4.12 @ 3:49PM
W:
Many thanks. I'm looking forward to spending some quality time and doing some male bonding with my weed-eater. Sigh.
skip| 5.4.12 @ 10:37PM
A challenge.
In my opinion Al Adab is the best poster here. Al consistently posts intelligently and honestly. Al consistently bases posts on reason and experience. Al consistently avoids emotional prattle. Al consistently posts with patience, kindness, gentleness, and self control.
If Al takes on liberalism analogous to Christ taking on the cup in Gethsemane, I have taken on liberalism analogous to Christ taking on the money changers in the Temple. For this reason I have stayed out of this discussion so as to not jeopardize the attempt of Al and others more temperate than I.
Neither the Gethsemane nor the Temple approach seems to have gotten anyone anywhere, on any topic, ever.
An example of this is Al's statement "Fascists are not of the "right", met with the usual howls of protest. In current discourse the occupiers have been classified as anarchists, yet these occupiers insist on the government providing their every seeming need. Something has to give on these classifications, but it never happens. I have elaborated on this topic on several occasions over time, to no seeming effect.
If we amongst us cannot achieve a common understanding of something as relatively simple as the classification of fascism, for crying out loud, nothing short of real by God blood shed in the streets will resolve the issues behind this year's election at some point in the foreseeable future. Hence the challenge.
I challenge
RCV
Purp
Jack London
DRed
to rebut another attempt by me on this topic.
I will present my attempt. RCV, Purp, Jack London, and DRed will rebut as often they like, provided they pass the consensus after each attempted rebuttal by each of them.
To pass the consensus after each attempted rebuttal and be allowed to continue, each of RCV, Purp, Jack London, and DRed must pass the consensus of the board of review consisting of
Al Adab
Drunken Sailor
Oldefarte
Doctor Right
W
Todd S
Von Mises Jr
Dai Alanye
Simon Templar
KennesawJack
chuck
this list being comprised of those who have participated in this thread with the most posts.
If after each post by RCV, Purp, Jack London, and DRed, any 1 of these 11 reviewers vote to disqualify, then that rebutter can no longer rebut.
Ideally this will allow some level of common understanding by the end of the weekend with each of the 4 challenged the opportunity to a response several times each at a minimum.
Disqualification and consensus will be based subject to the rebuttal of each of the 4 challenged being stated with intelligence based on reason and experience that honestly avoids emotional prattle, as deemed by the 11 reviewers. Whenever any 6 of the 11 reviewers give an okay that a specific rebuttal meets the critera, then that challenged rebutter achieves consensus, and may further rebut at any time if they so desire.
It is assumed the 11 reviewers will each display integrity and credibility in the reviewal process, and the use of common sense and practicality will prevail.
* * * * * * * * * *
The criteria to rebut with intelligence based on reason and experience that honestly avoids emotional prattle is defined as follows.
reason and experience:
intellectually honest wisdom or reality derived with logical, rational, analytical justification, based on awareness of accumulated knowledge understood through observations of life and the world, used to make persuasive judgements with good cause
emotional prattle:
intellectually dishonest meaningless nonsense lacking reality derived with illogical, irrational, unanalytical explanation, based on the ignorance of arbitrary feelings understood through observations of life and the world, used to make foolish misjudgements with poor effect
* * * * * * * * * *
I will present the topic and ideally not be required to contribute any further in the process. Ideally after the 11 have agreed to review, or any necessary substitutions or modifications made for a review board, the 4 challengers are free to rebut in no particular order provided they are subject to the format laid out.
This is an opportunity for the 4 challenged to present the liberal position with intelligence based on reason and experience that honestly avoids emotional prattle with some semblance of sanity on a conservative website. They should not fail to recognize the value of an opportunity like this.
* * * * * * * * * *
An individual has unalienable rights.
An individual's unalienable rights cannot violate the unalienable rights of any other individual or group of individuals, the collective's unalienable rights.
The line between the individual and his unalienable rights and the collective and their unalienable rights is extremely thin.
The conservative errs on the side of this extremely thin line toward the 'right', the individual's unalienable rights.
The liberal errs on the side of this extremely thin line toward the 'left', the collective's unalienable rights.
Social rights relate to the interaction of the individual and the collective.
Political rights relate to the government and the conduct of government.
Economic rights relate to the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services.
Liberty is the freedom to enjoy social, political, and economic rights.
Tyranny is the oppression of the freedom to enjoy social, political, and economic rights.
Tyranny oppressing liberty from the conservative erring on the individual's unalienable rights on the 'right' of the extremely thin line is absence of government control.
Tyranny oppressing liberty from the liberal erring on the collective's unalienalbe rights on the 'left' of the extremely thin line is excessive government control.
Anarchy is absence of government control.
Totalitarianism is excessive government control.
Socialism is a totalitarian form of excessive government control.
Naziism is a totalitarian form of excessive government control.
Communism is a totalitarian form of excessive government control.
Fascism is a totalitarian form of excessive government control.
Tyranny oppressing liberty in the form of anarchy occurs when the extremely thin line is at the farthest 'right' where individual social, political, and economic rights are unalienable at the expense of the collective's alienable rights enforced through absence of government control.
Tyranny oppressing liberty in the form of totalitarianism occurs when the extremely thin line is at the farthest 'left' where individual social, political, and economic rights are alienable at the expense of the collective's unalienable rights enforced through excessive government control.
Purp| 5.5.12 @ 12:05AM
So what is Conservatism? All sweetness and light? Utopia? Fantasyland? Seriously, you need help. Only you are right, everyone else is wrong - is that it? Talk about delusional.
Fascism only turned into a lefty thing since you keep saying it over and over again - a trick Uncle Adolf taught you? It's right in Mein Kampf, which I'm sure all you neo-nazis read like good little bundists.
chuck| 5.5.12 @ 8:31AM
Good Lord Purp, you are an idiot!
Tell me what is politically "right" about the Nazis. Fascism is government control of the privately owned means of production. What is conservative about that?
Nazi Party: National Socialist Party of Germany.
Nazis certainly did not care about individual rights, or religious freedoms. Which side of the political aisle does that come from? Certainly not the right!
Fascism has ALWAYS been a "lefty" thing. It's idiots like you that are trying to bastardize the meaning to compare it to conservatism.
And do you still claim to have a PhD?
Purp| 5.5.12 @ 5:02PM
Naziism has been compared to right-wing ideology for decades - you just don't like it and keep trying to throw it off your backs. You support corporations, corporatism against the workers, the unions, the retirees - how is that individual rights speak again? You support "Corporations are people" - again, how is that supporting rugged individualism? Forcing your religious beliefs on everyone else (Christian only, ya know, it's your ideology), is hardly religious freedom. Paul Ryan dropped Ayn Rand because of her atheist views, because no right winger would accept her over that. Your ideology is autocratic, "my way or the highway", but professes to be for individual freedom and religious tolerance - where do we see any of that? You sure don't want to be taxed, but that doesn't equate to freedom. That's why the people in the West are turning blue - they really DO want freedom and to be left alone, not your brand of "freedom" which is controlled and in your face. I'm sure you don't agree, because you won't get past that I am saying it - but that doesn't make it untrue.
Charles Van Dorn| 5.5.12 @ 6:17PM
National Socialism (Nazism) has been called "right" wing by Liberal Socialists as a means of hiding their support for Hitler during the 1930's, up until the time Hitler invaded the Soviet Union. PURP you are an idiot if you think that National Socialism was anything by a LEFTIST ideology. Hitler believed as you do, that GOVERNMENT is the solution to all.
chuck| 5.6.12 @ 8:36AM
As usual purp, you can't and won't answer the question. How is fascism like conservatism? Just because non-thinking liberals like yourself like to equate the two, doesn't make it so.
skip| 5.5.12 @ 1:55PM
A review of posts in this thread only:
* * *
skip:
I challenge [Purp] to rebut [my position on fascism] with intelligence based on reason and experience that honestly avoids emotional prattle
reason and experience:
intellectually honest wisdom or reality
derived with logical, rational, analytical justification,
based on the awareness of accumulated knowledge
understood through observations of life and the world,
used to make persuasive judgements to good cause
emotional prattle:
intellectually dishonest meaningless nonsense lacking reality
derived with illogical, irrational, unanalytical explanation,
based on the ignorance of arbitrary feelings
understood through observations of life and the world,
used to make foolish misjudgements with poor effect
This is an opportunity for [Purp] to present the liberal position with intelligence based on reason and experience that honestly avoids emotional prattle with some semblance of sanity on a conservative website. [Purp] should not fail to recognize the value of an opportunity like this.
Purp:
Seriously, you need help. Talk about delusional.
* * *
Purp:
Why do you all insist on calling everyone you don't agree with names? It completely destroys any point you are trying to make.
* * *
Purp:
your propaganda just can't do anything but label others
Allen West is a creep...an embarrassment to West Point...disgrace to the Congress...disgusting misogynist...needs some serious help...a radical, mean-spirited nut case
lunatic fringe on the right
Republicant
Corporatists
true conservative right wing lunatic fringe baby eating mouth breather
Loser
you have no decency
debase myself to your level
Corporatists
extreme Corporatists
Fixed News
I wish I had a $1 for every name I called Baby Bush
I wish I had a $1 for every name I called Baby Bush
Corporatist Party
Republicant Party
Republicant party
Republicant party
Fixed News
Baby Bush or Darth Cheney
Republicants
Fixed News or Rush Loudmouth
you're sick...get some help
you twit
Bush's policies killed the economy - it has been reborn under Obama
Conservative my foot - totalitarian fascists
* * *
Purp:
Congressional Progressive Caucus - go to their site and name one thing you disagree with
skip:
[post on 7.18.11, after going to the Congressional Progressive Caucus website]
The People's Budget?
A plan to stimulate the economy by training teachers, rebuilding bridges and roads, investing in job creation, investing in clean energy, investing in housing, eliminating the Bush tax cuts, raising taxes, protecting social security, protecting medicare, protecting medicaid, and enacting a health care public option.
more of everything Obama, Reid, and Pelosi have pushed the last 30 months
* * *
Purp:
A limited government never creates a powerful country...Point to one if you can
Purp| 5.5.12 @ 5:03PM
Well at least you're reading what I wrote - cherry picking as you go, like a good little Fixed News lackey.
skip| 5.5.12 @ 8:18PM
As astonishing to witness as the prolonged denial and anger stages have been, the inevitable bargaining, depression, and acceptance stages will almost certainly boggle the mind. Promise you will keep posting through the entire process. Please?
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 11:15PM
Conservatism is based on the concept that the essential nature of man is not changeable. I make my living by detecting patterns of thought and behavior and changing them within limits. But there are certain limits that are unchangeable despite the best efforts of medications and therapy, unless you cut the brain out and transform man into idiot.
The patterns are recognizable and treatable in many cases where they have gone sick---and by sick I mean danger to self or others. I think the data on Conservatism and Liberalism as psychological /physiological patterns is moronic at this time.
Since there is no perfectability of man, governments must be set up that absolutely limit the intervention of governments, since government has a monopoly on the use of legitimate force. Further, decision making needs to be decentralized and pushed to the lowest level as much as possible governmentally, in order to ensure maximum responsiveness of government to those governed concerns, as well as reducing force issues as much as possible.
Conservatism is the least optimistic and idealistic type of government approach---therefore, it is the most realistic and likely to work.
I can discuss other aspects of Conservative thought, if interested.
chuck| 5.6.12 @ 8:41AM
"unless you cut the brain out and transform man into idiot"
So that's what happened to purp!
chuck| 5.4.12 @ 8:30AM
nister,
Do you even know what fascism is? Can you explain the fascist economic system? Or are you just throwing out talking points?
nister| 5.4.12 @ 9:14AM
Chuck, I'm interested in West's motives. You seem interested in thread drift and deflection.
Dustoff| 5.4.12 @ 9:51AM
, I'm interested in West's motives
*********************
???? West told the truth.
chuck| 5.4.12 @ 10:31AM
nister,
Since it is obvious you don't have a clue what fascism actually is, here goes.
Fascism is government control of the privately owned means of production. Think of Government,........oops, General Motors, then talk to me about which side of the political aisle could be considered fascist.
KennesawJack| 5.4.12 @ 10:32AM
No, he's just interested in learning whether you know what the fascist economic system is. If you don't know, here's a hint; describe Obamarx's approach to the restructuring of GM in return for taxpayers' dollars.
Al Adab| 5.4.12 @ 3:53PM
Chuck, Jack:
What we have taken to calling
crony capitalism" is essentially the fascist model. The government selects favored industries (solar, green) or companies (GM, GE) and subsidizes or awards contracts to them based on favoriitism. Never forget that Hermann Goering was one of the worlds' richest men due to his ownership of the Hermann Georing Iron and Steel Works. Krupp is another example.
If such things a Solyndra or CFLs or ADM come to mind, well if the shoe fits.
DRed| 5.4.12 @ 4:14PM
Al, I think you've got it wrong. GE obviously has tremendous political influence, which distorts both the market and our government. But it doesn't have that influence because the fascists in Washington look favorably on GE because they're run by fellow Nazi party members. GE buys political influence.
Al Adab| 5.4.12 @ 5:06PM
DRed:
We are saying the same thing. Yes, GE buys influence with campaign contributions and is then rewarded by, for example, the CFL mandate which product they alone manufacture. I keep waiting for the mandate which requires every second car to be a Chevy Volt. Major fleet purchases by the government BTW. Has anyone figured out the nightly recharge cost on the household electric bill?
DRed| 5.4.12 @ 5:16PM
No, you're saying we have a fascist economy. because of crony capitalism. I'm saying you're wrong. Crony capitalism long predates fascism. I don't know how it's even possible to have a capitalist society without it. You can limit it, but it's always going to be a problem.
DRed| 5.4.12 @ 5:20PM
Also, GE isn't the only manufacturer of CFLs. You may be thinking of something else.
Jack London| 5.4.12 @ 5:17PM
This applies to all administrations, but it's crystal clear which party is much more in the hands of the major power brokers.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 5:38PM
Name the major power brokers for us Jack. I guess Soros, Buffet, Gates, GE, etc don't qualify.
DRed| 5.4.12 @ 5:53PM
http://www.opensecrets.org/org.....D000000125
chuck| 5.5.12 @ 8:35AM
Jack,
Yup, the Democrats. Wall Street, Goldman Sacs, Citi, GE, Buffet, Gates, Soros, Geithner, Ruben, just to name a few.
Purp| 5.5.12 @ 5:09PM
And, who do you think is supporting the Republicant party ? The Big Oil Corps, the Billionaires Club, etc. etc. - all the crony capitalism you want to see is on display on ALECexposed.org ... the right wing agenda and politicians in bed with the corporate giants - and you don't think you all support the Fascist Party? You are deceived and blind to what they are doing to us all. Good Grief. Wake up.
http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed - tell me that isn't corporate and government favoritism, buying of politicians and agendas for sale.
JimH| 5.4.12 @ 8:35AM
Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini
When you see where most of O’s crew used to work and who supports him and his policy of intervention in the private sector mostly without appropriation you realize that despite his occasional Marxian pronouncements done for the proles who vote for him, he has more in common with Mussolini than Lenin. Unfortunately he not even figured out how to make the trains run on time.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 8:56AM
Both parties are Corporatists - just that the R's are more extreme Corporatists than the D's. At least the D's leave some room for the people too.
Ryan| 5.4.12 @ 9:40AM
I almost agree with you here, except that corporatism is more aided by leftist policies rather than those of true conservatism - which opposes corporatism.
Conservatism wants bad companies to fail.
chuck| 5.4.12 @ 10:36AM
Close Ryan,
Liberals want their friends and contributors business to succeed, often at the expense of the taxpayers. Conservatives want businesses to succeed, but believe poorly run businesses should be allowed to fail.
And I purposely left out political parties here, as too many Republicans are not conservative.
Paul Kotik| 5.4.12 @ 11:54AM
God, are you stupid!
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 4:39PM
That's a useful point, isn't it? do you pick wings off of flies too?
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:32PM
What a cliche!
You're a joke.
Truth to Power| 5.4.12 @ 9:08AM
All the enthusiastic fascists are in the Democratic Party. If nister wasn't such a reactionary he would realize he has stumbled into being a fascist.
Purp| 5.5.12 @ 5:10PM
I thought all Democrats are Socialists? They can't be both? For the people and for the corporations.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 10:56AM
Fascism has always been associated with national socialism. Fact is Obama has much in common with Mussolini when it comes to beliefs and governing style, big fan of the Corporate Cronyism such as throwing billions of taxpayer dollars to his big money donors. Corporations can exist as long as they serve the needs of the state as approved by Obama. Not too mention the two richest men on Wall Street Buffet and Soros are big Obama supporters and get a good return on their dollar from government kickbacks. See Throw Them All Out by Peter Schweizer.
Jack London| 5.4.12 @ 2:34PM
Considering we had probably the most corrupt presidential regime ever in GW Bush I'll give you credit for sheer cheek.
Ken| 5.4.12 @ 3:31PM
Were you born last week? Don't you remember the Clinton era? If there ever was a corrupt regime it was back then. Of course Obama is attempting to slither under even that low bar what with all the numerous scandals coming out of his administration from Fast and Furious to Solyndra.
Jack London| 5.4.12 @ 4:15PM
Perhaps though the ultimate corruption is the present day GOP, which has more or less been bought by big business interests and the super-rich such that the narrow interests of a few determine that no rational compromise based on evidence now takes place in our government.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 4:40PM
Excellent point, but they will keep voting them in, because Fixed News tells them to.
Al Adab| 5.4.12 @ 5:09PM
Yeah those darned republicans like Kennedy, Soros, Blumberg, etc.
Get off this point guys, there are well heeled folks on both sides. One side wants to tax them more, the other wants to see more people become such.
Jack London| 5.4.12 @ 5:23PM
No you missed the big point, which is the corruption and breakdown of our democracy. Washington now is a pretty naked fight between the 1% and their tools - GOP, Citizen's United, ALEC etc - and spineless Democratic lawmakers.
Al Adab| 5.4.12 @ 5:30PM
ACORN, AARP, AFL-CIO, NAACP, ACLU, get the drift?
Heading out of the office for the weekend. Get some fishing in guys and enjoy.
Purp| 5.5.12 @ 5:12PM
Both want everyone to be rich - the difference is the D's will help those that aren't more than the R's will - unlike the R's belief, the D's know that not all that need help are useless, lazy, loafing drug addicts, and so deserve our help.
Pete| 5.4.12 @ 10:23PM
You idiots try continue to excuse Obama by blaming Bush. News flash. Bush is not the idiot who is President.
Purp| 5.5.12 @ 5:13PM
He was and will be remembered, just like Herbert Hoover is today - the idiot that allowed the Great Depression to happen. Perception is truth and it stuck on him, and it is stuck like glue on Bush - Losers both.
Hank Rearden| 5.4.12 @ 5:49PM
Name one example of corruption in the W Bush Administration.
TLP| 5.5.12 @ 8:00AM
Listen.
I hear Crickets.
Nothing else.
Just Crickets.
RCV| 5.5.12 @ 11:46AM
No bid contracts for Cheney's friends at Haliburton.
TLP| 5.5.12 @ 5:33PM
I would remind you that THE RAPIST - Bill Clinton - gave Haliburton No Bid Contracts, but you're obviously too STUPID to comprehend it.
RCV| 5.5.12 @ 10:44PM
Haliburton gorged on the Iraq war trough, courtesy of its former exec Cheney. Worst sel-dealing and war profiteering ever. Disgraceful, TLP.
TLP| 5.6.12 @ 7:50AM
Like I said: Too Stupid.
W| 5.6.12 @ 2:28PM
What is the left's fascination and obsession with Halliburton?
It is a fine, profitable American corporation that employs many Americans and pays good wages and benefits. It makes a decent return for its shareholders. It is a public company owned by shareholders, mostly mutual funds and pension plans. I bet you own it in your IRA, or 401K, or other retirement plan.
Michael Moore, the poster child of the Left, owned Halliburton, Boeing, Eli Lilly, Loral, Honeywell, and the other bad profit making American companies.
Does the Left like only the losers such as GM, Chrysler, and Solyndra so it can lend money to and control them?
The profit made by Halliburton went to its shareholders and employees. Cheney donated most of his income to charity, unlike Algore and Biden.
Who is profiting from Obama's wars in Afghanistan, Libya, Central Africa, and Iraq?
RCV| 5.5.12 @ 11:52AM
Jack Abramoff, Bernard Kerick, Lurita Doan (GSA)...
Purp| 5.5.12 @ 5:16PM
Enron, Worldcomm, Scooter Libbey , US Atty scandal, Guantanamo, Iraq, Afghanistan, Abu Ghraib, and on and on.
W| 5.6.12 @ 2:32PM
News Flash to Purp
Obama expanded the war in Afghanistan.
Obama has not closed Guantanamo.
Enron and Worldcom were private companies, not government.
Libbey was convicted on what everyone now says was a phoney charge. The prosecutor knew who leaked the Plame story: Colin Powell's office.
There was no US attorney scandal.
Abu Ghraib was the work of a few who were convicted. It was not US policy,
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 11:17PM
GW Bush more corrupt than Obama? I don't think so. At least we knew his grades, for starters, and his DUI conviction as well. Colin Powell was considerably more morally upright than Hillary Clinton, for example, although I dislike him, too.
RCV| 5.5.12 @ 11:32PM
Colin Powell is one of the finest human beings to have served our country in the last half-century, Occam. I'd support him for the Presidency in a heartbeat.
From the Desk of Media Matters| 5.6.12 @ 1:07AM
Repellent Reputrified Contemptible Creepy Vermin Vomit Whatever It Is You Are Usually Referred As,
MM staff is sick and tired of all these bottom rung MM retarded parrots crawling out of the dungpile every time MM staff turns around.
They're like mosquitoes. Or cockroaches.
- MM staff
Occam's Tool| 5.6.12 @ 11:09PM
No, he isn't, RCV. Unimaginative, and pro-Islam, sorry. I can name many others better.
Soljerblue| 5.5.12 @ 5:55AM
Nister, please -- in lieu of an education it appears you have swallowed the eternal left wing lie about what fascism is and is not. Fascism is not of the political right. It IS on the political left. Fascism is slightly left of socialism, and not quite all the way to full blown Naziism, Leninism, or Stalinist dictatorship of the proletariat. Fascism is therefore not to be found on the political right, which moves toward anarchy, the complete absence of government.
oldfart| 5.4.12 @ 7:59AM
‘They’ will find anything they can on Congressman West to try to take him down. To the progressive/socialist left there are three strikes against him.
1. He believes that people can be responsible for themselves and don’t depend on the government for their very existence.
2. He is a Republican.
3. He is an African-American who is ‘off the plantation’ mentally. He is a free thinker. He makes up his own mind.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 8:57AM
you forgot - he's a radical, mean-spirited nut-case.
Jakota| 5.4.12 @ 9:22AM
I just read above where you have a 'thing' against name calling.
Wow! talk about hypocrisy!
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 4:42PM
Name calling against the site visitors - public officials are fair game always. I wish I had a $1 for every name I called Baby Bush.
Magnifying Glass| 5.4.12 @ 9:34AM
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 8:46AM:
"Why do you all insist on calling everyone you don't agree with names? It completely destroys any point you are trying to make."
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 4:42PM
Name calling against the site visitors - public officials are fair game always. I wish I had a $1 for every name I called Baby Bush.
Dustoff| 5.4.12 @ 9:52AM
Compared to who? Jackon Lee?
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 4:42PM
Sane, rational people.
SUBVET| 5.4.12 @ 6:32PM
PURP...........4:42 PM you should be out of lotion why don't you take a break and go to the store.
Purp| 5.5.12 @ 5:16PM
You're sick dude ... wash out your brain with soap.
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:34PM
You probably would have said that about George Washington.
Leftists are so completely devoid of substance. It IS the philosophy of the stupid.
Soljerblue| 5.5.12 @ 5:57AM
more of what passes for political discourse in left wing blogosphere.
Kevin in Appalachia| 5.4.12 @ 8:03AM
At what point are they considered a communist? When they believe 25%, 50%, 75%?
Call them out Allen. Their howls of protest will validate you.
hardcard| 5.4.12 @ 8:03AM
Thank You Col.West !!
Mike 3/505| 5.4.12 @ 8:11AM
Mr Kengor,
Where is the line Sir? Is it at 40 percent taxation of income? 50? 70? Must there always be a Political Commissar physically present on the factory floor...or just 8 hours/day like the Federal agent on GM's factory floors? Is it the difference between a misdemeanor and a felony? Or is it the difference between murder 1 or 2?
West is right....
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 9:16AM
Taxation = People's services from the Government. It's that simple.
If you don't think you need any services from the government (and I don't mean handouts), you don't think you should pay as much tax as you do.
If you do think you need the government services, then you don't mind paying for a government and civilized society.
As our population grows, more government, not less is needed to maintain stability.
It really isn't rocket science. The rest is just hair splitting.
Riff Raff| 5.4.12 @ 9:20AM
"Taxation = People's services from the Government. It's that simple.
If you don't think you need any services from the government (and I don't mean handouts), you don't think you should pay as much tax as you do."
Straw Man Argument. No response needed.
Mike 3/505| 5.4.12 @ 9:32AM
Purp,
I agree. I have no problem with paying for government services...Defense at the State and federal levels and taxed appropriately. Fire & Police at the Local & State levels and taxed appropriately. My only issue, is being charged more for the same service. If we are all "equal," then my life is n o more or less valuable than someone who makes less than I do. Ergo, we should both pay the same amount for the same service. I don't pay for bread based on my income. It's a fixed price.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 10:24AM
If you consume more services, as the wealthy do, than others - using the roads more, the airports more, more security (you have more to protect), more defense (multiple homes, etc.) more sanitation, more water, if you own a factory, if you own a business of any kind, you consume more than most - you should pay more than most.
If you consumed more bread than most - you would, of course, pay more.
Ground Control| 5.4.12 @ 10:37AM
False argument. Roads are maintained out of USE taxes (gas taxes, etc...) The more you use, the more you pay. Same for sanitation, water, and utilities. These are metered services.
MOST of federal tax money goes to servicing the debt and to handout programs. So, every argument you make is specious. The problem is government handing out free money and free housing and free food to people who pay no taxes but who nevertheless vote, and they ALWAYS vote Democrat.
Mike 3/505| 5.4.12 @ 11:15AM
GC,
Thanx for saving me the trouble. You said it just right. We need to revamp the entire tax code. Use taxes for roads, airports & the like...and a "head" tax for all else. If you don't pay the head tax, you don't vote....one exception....combat service gets you the lifetime franchise. Die in combat & your spouse & kids get it for life. Everybody else pays.
Butch| 5.4.12 @ 4:33PM
". . . and a 'head' tax for all else."
An equal lump sum, Mike? Careful, you're getting dangerously close to true equality, my friend.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 4:49PM
Handouts? Oh, you mean Social Security and Medicare? To your grandparents and great aunts and uncles? Or to your parents? Or to children and wives of dead husbands/fathers ? (1/3 of Social security goes to them and the disabled). How about the disabled?
What really gets me is that you all whine about the programs that all of us enjoy, but you conflate them with the so-called handouts you don't like - food stamps (because your useless you need them) or welfare (which is almost non-existent after the '90's) or unemployment insurance (for actual workers only) How selfish and self-centered can you be?
When you add up Social Security, Medicare, Defense and the Debt Servicing, there is less than 20% of the Federal budget you are whining about. If you got a 20% tax cut, would you all shut up then ?
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:43PM
I don't "enjoy" them, dumbass. And neither will you. These programs have been looted.
And frankly, I don't want it. I'd opt out of all of it, given the chance, and so would millions of other Americans. And that's exactly why you liberal, democrat parasites will never let that happen -because then you couldn't continue to loot.
You left wing scumbags hide behind this veneer of being "compassionate," but the truth is that you vermin are the laziest, greediest, most selfish pigs that have ever existed.
You scream and yell about " the rich" getting tax cuts, the rich not paying their " fair share," but everything you vote for, everything you support is designed to STEAL money from other people who work and line your own pockets.
But the jig is up; thanks to Obama, the bloom is coming off that rose.
People who work and want the government off their backs have had enough of you lazy, shiftlesss swine. And when Obama loses in a landslide, it's time for payback.
Purp| 5.5.12 @ 5:23PM
You are lying and you know it. When you are of age for Soc Sec and Medicare you will use it, and you know it. You'd opt of taxes, period. If you don't make enough money - Blame Yo'self. Who do you think you are, that you can be treated differently than everyone else - you can't. so get over it already.
YOU are the selfish pig - and you jeopardize your place in heaven with your pettiness.
When you are taxed, it isn't stealing, I guess you never learned the difference.
It must really eat at you that Obama is going to win - he's smart, decisive, cool under pressure, actually knows how to be President, and can actually speak to a crowd and relate to them - not so with Richie Romney, with the silver foot in his mouth .... he's losing and will continue to lose as the focus is solely on him now. it's a fun time.
Doctor Right| 5.6.12 @ 6:48AM
Brilliant rebuttal..
Obama...the least experienced man in any room he walks into. Dumb, but full of cocksure confidence. Pushed through life because of his skin color.
He's toast in November.
Occam's Tool| 5.6.12 @ 11:10PM
I've already maxed out on my social security contributions in terms of my own benefits. Now I'm just being taxed for others, not my own benefits.
Ground Control| 5.4.12 @ 10:10PM
Another false argument. Social Security and Medicare are by statute self supporting and NOT part of the Federal budget. That government both taps into this fund and suplements at different times merely exemplifies the inherent corruption of government. Note: Both programs are not only better served at the State or local level, it flatly illegal for the US Government to run them.
You really do not know what you are talking about.
W| 5.4.12 @ 11:26AM
Purp
You are arguing that if a person uses more resources he should pay "more."
If a person is using more resources he is already paying more because he is paying a sales tax on products and services, and assuming he is paying from his income ( income is when people work) then he is paying income tax on the progressive graduated rate. Moreover, he is paying for what he uses.
In addition he is contributing to the economy by using goods and services, and thus creating jobs for people who provide the goods and services through the multiplier effect.
Your concern seems to be for people who consume goods and services but have no income to pay and therefore we, the taxpayers, have to pay.
You really do sound like an economics illiterate. But you are civil.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 11:41AM
Considering he is probably making $10 an hour at most as a Soros troll, you really can't expect him to be able to use logic or rational but that is not what he is paid for. Stick to the talking points scripted right Purp?
W| 5.4.12 @ 11:56AM
Purp serves a useful function. He gives us example after example of the Left's (Obama) views which we can be easily refuted by the first person who responds to him.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 2:04PM
So I guess that makes Purp a useful idiot both ways.
Al Adab| 5.4.12 @ 3:55PM
If we keep up with Purp and his posts, we gqin an understanding of the opposition party line. Never a bad thing to know what the enemy (yes I said it) is thinking.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 5:00PM
Wanna bet $10,000 dollars?
I didn't think so... I have it, you don't, and yet you vote for the Corporatist Party. There are many of us successful, hard-working non-right wingers out here that are amazed at how brain-washed you all are.
Even the magnificent Paul Ryan through Ayn Rand under the bus when it was clear it would hurt him to support her atheistic views. You can't have it both ways.
The more you support the 1% ers, the less power and wealth you will have, period. Most of them aren't going to give you a thing. I don't have to worry, I've made mine - but it's a puzzlement to me that y'all believe their crap while you stay where you are economically.
Think about it - if you give 10 billionaires a $1 billion dollar tax cut or if you give 1 million people a $1000 dollar tax cut, what creates more economic activity in the U.S.?
Al Adab| 5.4.12 @ 5:14PM
Bet 10K on what my friend? Sounds like an interesting proposition.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 5:40PM
You made yours where Purp? As a union hack?
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:36PM
The billionaires.
If you think otherwise, you're a fool.
But you ARE a fool.
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:36PM
The billionaires.
If you think otherwise, you're a fool.
But you ARE a fool.
chuck| 5.5.12 @ 8:45AM
And the correct answer is:
The billionaires!
Reason:
The one million people would spend the $1000 each on something, food, or maybe a vacation, or a big TV. Money gone. Best Buy or somebody else, a billionaire now has the money. Give it to the billionaire, actually, let them keep more of their money, and they reinvest it in their business, or start new ones, creating jobs and wealth.
Do I get the prize?
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 11:21PM
$10,000 over what, Purp. I have it, too, asshole.
The answer on the greater economic activity is the billionaires, by the way. You should check out how much economic activity in the US Howard Hughes was responsible for before he died. It was about 1/1000th of the ENTIRE US economy.
TLP| 5.6.12 @ 8:00AM
"Asshole"?
I think that MAYBE, you might wanna take a break from all of this for a little while. You're better than that. And, you're a Helluva lot better man than all of them, put together. Don't let them Turn you over to The Dark Side.
Leave the Mud and the Dirty Words, to me.
W| 5.6.12 @ 2:34PM
You are a gem, TLP, and indispensable.
Keep it up.
Occam's Tool| 5.6.12 @ 11:12PM
TLP, thank you for your kindenss, sir. OK, break until next weekend. G-d Bless you, Dr. R, Nick, Ken, you guys know who you are.
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:35PM
You have no problem with it because you're a college-age punk who's never worked for a living and doesn't pay taxes.
Dustoff| 5.4.12 @ 9:54AM
Hey dummy. Were ALL paying for Border Patrol. Hows that working out for the people in AZ.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 10:26AM
Just fine, from what I hear ... 30% crime down, 35% fewer immigrants. Who's the dummy, now?
Riff Raff| 5.4.12 @ 10:38AM
"Who's the dummy, now?"
As always, you are Purp.
Simon Templar| 5.4.12 @ 11:36AM
While your at it thank the Governor of Arizona and all conservatives who have been fighting for control of that border and enforcement of the law while you bastards have done everything to undermine that, DUMMY!
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 5:01PM
It wasn't necessary and probably un-Constitutional - but that only bothers you when the other side does it. So other then looking nasty and mean-spirited, I dunno - you tell me. Obama may win AZ this time - it's a battleground state - wonder why? Go figure.
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 7:17PM
Asking the Federal Gov't to enforce Federal law is "probably in-Constitutional"??
You have no idea how stupid that sounds, do you?
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 7:18PM
Obama had ZERO chance in Arizona, unless all of his illegal buddies vote.
RCV| 5.5.12 @ 11:55AM
We've had more deportations and less illegal immigration under this administration than either Bush or Ronald "amnesty" Reagan.
W| 5.4.12 @ 11:58AM
Purp
There are fewer illegal immigrants because the Obama economy is so bad. The illegal immigrants have voted with their feet to reject the Obama economy. They are staying or returning to Mexico.
Al Adab| 5.4.12 @ 3:57PM
BTW Purp, W:
Arizona attributes the rapid decline in its illegal population to be the result of the economy and in large measure the 1070 bill and employer santions. Our states with similar problems would do well to study the matter.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 5:03PM
Of course they do - otherwise what was the purpose? You believe the politicians now?
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 5:02PM
Uh-huh ... strengthened border patrol and more deportations than any President has nothing to do with it ? Uh- huh ... nice try.
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:45PM
Ummm...that's pure, unadulterated bull-crap.
Maybe your left wing dip-stick friends are impressed by your lies, but they won't work here.
RCV| 5.5.12 @ 11:56AM
It happens to be the truth, Dr R. Check the facts.
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 11:23PM
The reduction in Mexican illegals over the border is due to declining birthrates and our economy going into the toilet. The economy was MUCH better under Bush and Reagan, and the birthrates were also higher.
Demographics and money determine most things.
RCV| 5.5.12 @ 11:36PM
Look at the deportation numbers, Occam. The Obama administration has done a more effective job at deporting illegals, and a smarter one by focusing on deporting criminals. The GOP has always talked a good game, but in action has supported the interests of agribusiness and union-busters by keeping the flow of illegals coming.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 5:55PM
Apparently Obama's plan to deal with illegal immigration is to make the economy so bad that illegals will go back to Mexico voluntarily because there are no damn jobs here anymore.
sean connelly| 5.4.12 @ 8:24AM
While I agree that there are distinctions and degrees of liberalism/progressivism,inevitably ,once on this road,the destination is the same.To quibble about it is akin to arguing about what stages of a fatal disease any given patient is in as if the arguments might cure the illness.In today's pseudo polite society,West can be accused of imprudence,bad form or insensitivity(we mustn't hurt progressives feelings).Neverteless,the sooner we learn where the progressive roadmap invariably takes us the better.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 9:17AM
Hmmm, the progressive road started in the 1890's and since then the U.S. has become the world's only Superpower. Guess the road was the right road, huh?
Simon Templar| 5.4.12 @ 11:38AM
My god you are a moron....
Please take a course in logic.
W| 5.4.12 @ 12:04PM
Purp
The Republican Party started in 1860 with Lincoln. Do you think that is why we are the only Superpower?
World War 1 and 2 destroyed the British, French, German, Japanese, and Austrian empires, with the Soviet empire beaten by Reagan. Do you think these are reasons why we are the only Superpower?
But, you know, Major League Baseball started in the 188o's. Could this be the reason why we are the Superpower?
Al Adab| 5.4.12 @ 3:58PM
W:
I'll vote with baseball.
W| 5.4.12 @ 4:10PM
Al Adab
I also vote for baseball.
And I also have to mow the lawn tomorrow.
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 11:26PM
W:
I'm a rich guy. I have a lawn service.
Actually, my lawn service costs me about $260/month. I've got 2 and 1/2 acres, and the wife wants professional service tending to the baby trees and flowerbeds, so...growing season is short in Northern Minnesota. I pay about $1000/year for the lawn service. Not that expensive, really. And, unlike Purp, I live in a rural area and stay far away from Liberal neighbors.
RCV| 5.5.12 @ 11:37PM
... And guess who your "lawn service" employs, Occam.
Occam's Tool| 5.6.12 @ 11:19PM
White guys from the local area. I live on the Canadian border, RCV. MY KIDS are the only Hispanics in this immediate area. I KNOW my demographics here---I'm the State psychiatrist for this county.
Here's the wiki breakdown, my friend:
"As of the census[4] of 2000, there were 39,650 people, 14,337 households, and 9,749 families residing in the county. The population density was 16 people per square mile (6/km²). There were 16,989 housing units at an average density of 7 per square mile (3/km²). The racial makeup of the county was 76.66% White, 0.36% Black or African American, 20.36% Native American, 0.57% Asian, 0.02% Pacific Islander, 0.21% from other races, and 1.84% from two or more races. 0.99% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race. 21.6% were of German, 19.7% Norwegian and 5.6% Swedish ancestry according to Census 2000. 95.1% spoke English and 2.4% Ojibwa as their first language."
3 Native American tribes, otherwise, uff-da types. That, by the way, is 400 Latinos, with a State University in the area. 2 of them are Isaac and Rebekah. Thanks for playing. I don't live in Californication no more. :-)
RCV| 5.7.12 @ 12:54PM
How far do you have to go to synagogue?
W| 5.6.12 @ 2:42PM
OT
I have about 3/4 acres. It is part of my exercise program. I smoke a cigar while pushing the mower, and get a tan. I also have an old fashioned Sears rotary mower that I use ocassionally and it draws a crowd of young kids asking what is it and where is the motor.
BTW as a teenager I had about ten or fifteen customers for lawn mowing, and all my customers were Jewish. Paid well and appreciative.
I may take your advice soon, getting boring.
Occam's Tool| 5.6.12 @ 11:24PM
I pay well and am appreciative. I also get my septic system pre-emptively pumped each summer, and my driveway sealed. All done by Norwegian types, by the way.
I love living here. Within a 4 hour drive are NDSU, Bemidji State, UND, University of Minnesota Moorhead, University of Minnesota Crookston (which has the equine science program that my daughter contemplates), and some great pleasant cities. If I need a megalopolis, I can go to the Twins. That's 4.5 hours away. And if I need the services of the greatest Medical Center on the planet, Mayo Clinic is here, too.
I love rural Minnesota.
RCV| 5.7.12 @ 12:55PM
It is a great place, to be sure.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 5:13PM
Republicant Party - no, not the reason. Lincoln, maybe. Before him, we were the United States of America and after him we were THE United States of America. E Pluribus Unum.
No sh*t, Sherlock, but the underlying progressive push to improve this country, enabling the Federal Government to become stronger was never a conservative principle - that would be un-Constitutional. Without a strong Federal Government, do you really believe we would have become the Superpower we became? Seriously? Limited government is NOT a powerful government is it? But that's what you righties want, isn't it?
If you are not strong in economy, culture, finance, with a motivated people, as well as a strong defense, you are not a Superpower, are you? The Soviets were strong on defense, and? Goodbye, they're gone.
As far as the other "empires", we were blessed with abundance of natural resources, so were not dependent on colonies for support. Once the colonies were gone, the engines of power decreased.
In short, there are a lot of reasons we are a Superpower, but progressivism as a philosophy is one of those reasons.
W| 5.4.12 @ 6:39PM
Purp
Your are rambling and make no sense. Take a rest, collect your thought,and try again.
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:47PM
Hey, dummy!
You're confusing a powerful Federal Government with a powerful country.
They're not the same thing.
Duh.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 10:17PM
A limited government never creates a powerful country - duh yourself. Point to one if you can.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 11:05PM
Well that might be the dumbest thing you ever said which is saying something
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 11:27PM
Switzerland and its cantons.
Doctor Right| 5.6.12 @ 6:51AM
The USA, as intended.
Dummy.
Alej| 5.4.12 @ 12:50PM
"Hmmm, the progressive road started in the 1890's and since then the U.S. has become the world's only Superpower. Guess the road was the right road, huh?"
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.
Don't read much, purp ?
chuck| 5.6.12 @ 9:02AM
I was born in 1962, and since then we went to the moon, developed the internet, and became the world's only super power.
It must be because of me!
At least using purp's "logic".
Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 5.4.12 @ 8:28AM
They plan like them, they act like them, they write Bills and Laws like them, they talk like them, and if given the chance to seize power completely, they would drop the facade and call themselves Communists too!! DemoCommies!!
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 8:30AM
"Liberals agree with communists on many key sympathies " - So, because you believe in a strong leader, a strong military, that means you agree with Josef Stalin? or Adolf Hitler? That means you are Totalitarians?
It's ridiculous to compare Liberals or Progressives in this country to Communists, but you continue to do so, and as time goes on you sound more stupid and wrong every time you do.
The "Far Left" as you call it, isn't that far left - you are just so far to the right, even Ronald Reagan would be a lefty. He raised taxes 6 times, increased the debt ceiling 18 time and negotiated with Communists.
The Republicant party is the party of the extreme right today, so I'm sure you think I am far Left too. I am not, but you wouldn't believe it, I know.
Kevin in Appalachia| 5.4.12 @ 8:48AM
A president cannot raise taxes. Only congress.
oldfart| 5.4.12 @ 9:31AM
This one seems to think he can do anything with an Executive Order.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 5:15PM
No Congress, short a veto override, can pass any tax increases without the Presidential signature - you need to read up on how a bill becomes a law.
Surly Curmudgen| 5.4.12 @ 1:42PM
The communist/socialist controlled Democrat party is in a flat out sprint only ten yards from the finish line and their leap off the cliff for their utopia with their cheering section, the media, screaming their approval. The Republican party is five yards back and mad as L that they won't be able to jump with their friends.
Both parties belong to the right of center, Democrats slightly with Republicans much more
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:51PM
Hitler was a leftist, dimwit.
And it's not ridiculous to compare "progressives" to communists because you believe the same things.
The left gets mad when they're called communists because they know it's too close to the mark.
And Ronald Reagan didnt negotiate with Communists - he defeated them. You weren't even alive when Reagan was President so we'll forgive your ignorance, but if you're going to discuss the greatest President of he 20th century, you'd damn well better get it right.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 10:21PM
I voted for Reagan ... but I don't need to call you names. I was there, I remember what the doddering old fool did and didn't do. "President Teflon" they called him. Greatest President - hardly... we are living with his legacy - middle class failing, outsourcing rampant, and oil gripping us by the you know what.
Oh, and I suppose you believe he defeated the Soviets - not Communism all by himself. Forget the 8 Presidents and 35 years before him, yeah, right.
Pete| 5.4.12 @ 10:24PM
Its Obama's legacy.
chuck| 5.6.12 @ 9:06AM
"Oh, and I suppose you believe he defeated the Soviets - not Communism all by himself. Forget the 8 Presidents and 35 years before him, yeah, right."
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAA
Yeah, I remember all the help that Jimmy Carter gave to defeating the Commies!
pcisbs| 5.6.12 @ 8:33AM
A Democrat Majority controlled the House all 8 years of Reagan's presidency; and a Democrat Majority controlled the Senate in 7 of Reagan's 8 years in office. Wise up, you sound like an imbecile.
JohnM| 5.4.12 @ 8:44AM
You can parse the differences from your ivory tower but at the street level communist is a fair description of all the distinctions you list.
TURK| 5.4.12 @ 8:46AM
Hiss! Robeson! Key FDR top dogs. Carry overs to Truman (a winner as President). A reference to Ann Coulters book on democrat communists. A reference in 'dreams to O's card carrying mentor. The proof of the leftist domination of the D party is legion. So why, Mr Kengor do we Conservatives have to be so delicate, while the D's brutally trash our leaders ad nausem?? Bush's 8 years were classic as an example of the D's soviet example of how to compete. We are supposed to compete by the Marquess of Queensbury rules while they, unchallenged, partake of the 'Kick em in the balls rules.
Mr. Kengor, I agree with your #1 observation, but you can get lost with the others. Ronald Reagan beat the murderous soviet communists by calling them what they were time and again(ie the Berlin Wall speech where the dweebs in his administration screeched for him to delete the clear passage). Mr Kengor, tear down your trembling cellophane wall!! It will avail the Republic naught in 2012.
TexasTommy| 5.4.12 @ 8:47AM
West is correct. You are wrong. Get a clue.
Attila The Hun| 5.4.12 @ 9:54AM
Absolutely. The difference between liberal/democrat and, progressive/socialist/Fascist/communist is simple the dems want drain your blood one drop at the time, on the other hand the commies wants to suck your blood all in once. In the final analysis the goal of the left is the same.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 11:45AM
Absolutely correct. Just take a look at Obama's good buddy Bill Ayers. When he realized the communist revolution was not going to happen and they were killing more of their own than the pigs with their bombs, he changed his tactics but not his beliefs. Get into academia and brainwash the next generation so guys like Obama can get elected president.
joetentpeg| 5.4.12 @ 9:04AM
Re. Marx and abolition of private property.
Kinda hard to acquire private property without an income.
Mr. Kengor, can you name a Dem who isn't on a jihad to grab our income?
Why do they refuse to answer when asked what would be a "fair" percentage of our income they would take for Caesar?
USSAlabama| 5.4.12 @ 11:08AM
Do you think you 'own' your property?
Try not paying your property tax and you'll see who 'owns' it.
joetentpeg| 5.5.12 @ 9:49PM
True, but how does that relate to Mr. Kengor's contention that no Dems (as of yet?) have called for confiscation of private property, and my counter point that they all (and some Repubs) routinely make grabs for our income (property)?
Count me in for the common law's "alloidal title" to property.
Better yet, let's put the issue before CONgress and see who votes for/against.
St. Thor| 5.4.12 @ 9:12AM
The "broadness" of the political spectrum on the left should ALWAYS include fascists and Nazis in the list. They are collectivist scum just as communist and progressives, and just like communists and progressives they wish to control people to death. They both come from the left, NOT the right.The only difference between a Nazi and a communist is how many innocent people their leaders have killed and want to kill. Professor Kengor does a disservice to the American people by not including fascist and Nazi whale dung in the "broad" spectrum on the left. Their eminent role on the left should be shouted from the rooftops. The slander that fascists and Nazis are from the right is a big lie that has been used to cover the leftist scum machinations for too long.
Jack Barrett| 5.4.12 @ 9:25AM
My only issue with Rep West's comment is that he's underestimated the number of communists in Congress. I'd say it's a lot closer to 125 or so.
Ken| 5.4.12 @ 3:25PM
I'd say it would amount to nearly all of those on the Democrat side and even include a few Republican squishes.
kwan| 5.4.12 @ 9:46AM
The hard-core Marxists can hide behind the seemingly harmless classification of "Liberal" but their actions and words betray who and what they really are. It's naivete on steroids to observe the last three years of the Obama administration and not come to the conclusion that Obama is a Communist who wants to turn the United States into A Totalitarian Socialist State.
TURK| 5.4.12 @ 9:52AM
KWAN !!
Amen Brother!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Harry the Horrible| 5.4.12 @ 9:58AM
All we really need to know is that the CPUSA endorsed Obama and supports the Democrats, that a large number of Democrats are part of a Democratic Socialist caucus, and that the one Socialist in Congress caucuses with the Democrats.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 5:17PM
and the John Birch Society supports the Republicant party - so ?
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:53PM
Yeah...all two of them.
Have you ever met a cliche you DIDN'T like???
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 10:22PM
You mean like the dangerous 3 member Black Panther Party that is all over Fixed News to scare the crap out of you all? You mean like that?
Boyd Smith| 5.4.12 @ 9:59AM
It makes my day when such as Alan West makes the Liberals screem. Let 'em screem.
I am Conservative and always have been. I read many of the Conservative magazines, Internet websites, talk radio, etc., therefore, I am mostly unaware of the gross comments that Liberals make in print and in the MSM.
Where I do hear about them are from the all the Conservative commentators that I read and listen to and watch. I do not care to hear every pronouncement that the likes of Chris Matthews, etc. make on a daily basis. I have been political long enough to know what they are saying, and doing. I don't need to hear it from my side of the spectrum. What I do want to hear is what our side is doing to combat the idioic, destructive actions of the Left.
No, they aren't for taking away our rights to private property in one fell swoop, but believe me, they are working at it daily, the EPA being a wonderful example, one step at a time.
My hope is that the Republican side will stop eating our own and do all we can to come together and stop the flagrant destruction of our Wonderful Country, by the Left, C/communists, Liberals, Progressives, or whatever one wants to call them.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 5:19PM
If all you read is conservative lit, you don't really know the other side - only what your told to know.
Limited Government - you mean like controlling who we marry, where we can live, how we vote, how to have babies (or not)? That limited government? Conservative my foot - totalitarian fascists.
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:55PM
Who controls how you live? Not Republicans.
Democrats want to ban lightbulbs, fossil fuels, cigarettes, toilets, eyc, and you're so friggin' dumb you think Republicans are bad because we think two guys getting g married is stupid (and it is).
You're clueless.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 10:27PM
Well at least you didn't say it's morally wrong for 2 guys to be together - that's a step in the right direction.
I didn't say Republicants are bad, but they are sad if they don't believe in Climate Change, Evolution and Green Technology. Really it's pitiful to be so anti-everything President Obama does. It hasn't served you well at all. Women are against you, Hispanics are against you, the young are against you, minorities in general are against you, even Seniors are against you now. Tell, me, are they all wrong - or maybe, just maybe you are to resist the future.
And, you call me dumb? Find your own clue, Sunshine, your world view is dying.
Morally Wrong| 5.5.12 @ 11:53PM
It's morally wrong for 2 guys to be together - and no guardhouse lawyer tricks - you are still morally wrong when you join the 2 guys who are together - so it's morally wrong for guys to be together - and you are dumb - you are more than dumb - dumb doesn't begin to cover it - dumb doesn't adequately cover the morally wrong part about you - the real question is - are you dumber than you are morally wrong - or are you morally wronger than you are dumb - or are you as dumb as you are morally wrong - or is it better to state you are as morally wrong as you are dumb - in any case - you are dumb - you are morally wrong - these are what is known as understatements - i bet all your fabulous wealth - and your actual physical PhD diploma - that you are ugly - that you are a sissified weakling - and that you stink too - now go cry on the other guy's shoulder you pansy.
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 11:28PM
Controlling who I married? Not the Republicans. No one told me where I could live---but in Canada they have restrictions on where MDs can earn a living.
Controse| 5.4.12 @ 10:09AM
Mr. Kengor I imagine you are familiar with the aphorism that begins "If it walks like a duck..." We do not need to be more careful than the Democrat party leaders, aka communist sympathizers. Think offense. Think of that old football fan chant for the home team "hit'em harder, harder,harder." It is time to take the offense, stay on the offense and thereby defeat and discredit the party that unquestionablely campaigns relentlessly against capitalism. Being against capitalism is indistinguishable from being for communism. If your for communism you are a communist. Pick a side Mr. Kengor.
Oregun| 5.4.12 @ 10:21AM
I agree that West needs to be careful in the sense these people have no moral rudder and funny things can happen to you. On the other hand it is refreshing to hear someone call them by name and his speeches are the most energizing of any new face in the republic. Keep it up!
Dave F| 5.4.12 @ 10:23AM
We fall into the trap set by the progressives when we play name games with them. Liberal, Democrat, Progressive, Communist, Socialist. The progressive/socialist/communists likes to play the game of 'well technically I'm not a communist because...' Pure unadulterated BS. They all hate capitalizm. They all hate America. Mao (over 100 million dead) is a hero to them, even if they quible on means and details.
I think that we, as conservatives, have to stop playing the game and shamelessly lump them all together. If they think that capitalism is inherently unfair, they are communist/socialist/progressive. If they belive in 'Social Justice, they are communist/socialist/progressive. We need to blur the names, because they really are all the same. They all want to see the end of the US as we know it. And they must be called out on it every day.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 5:20PM
Actually, I want to see the US I grew up in, not the US destroyed by Reagan and his ilk for the last 30 years with economic bubbles and income inequality.
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:58PM
More idiocy.
You have a child's understanding of history, politics, and economics.
Reagan's policies launched the greatest period of peacetime expansion in US history; Obama's policies are killing the economy.
But that's ok, 'cuz you're a leftist, so facts don't matter.
You weren't even alive when Reagan was President, so STHU.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 10:31PM
Actually, it was Bill Clinton, but facts don't mean anything to you, do they? You have your belief in St.Reagan and that's it.
Bush's policies killed the economy - it has been reborn under Obama. Obama did kill Osama Bin Laden - something neither Baby Bush or Darth Cheney could get done.
I wasn't alive when Reagan was President? I voted for him - twice - you twit. Until I learned better what he was really doing... destroying the middle class in favor of the wealthy class and now 30 years later, the evidence is in... facts you can't face, but they are there nonetheless.
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 11:29PM
Bush's policies killed the economy reborn under Obama....wow.
Julia's baby daddy| 5.4.12 @ 9:57PM
Perp, nobody wants to return to the irresponsible sex practices of the San Francisco bath house scene in the 70s. Well except for every stinking troll on this website. Apparently you guys feel like you can by pure will of mind you can change your lower bowel into party central with no consequences. Call it love if you like but it sounds expensive to me. The death panels are really going to like you guys. My composite girl friend is really one demanding chick. I might have to strike her from my fantasy life. I am practicing my greeting for Littlebit Warren tomorrow. How, you might ask. I am not telling. Bullet trains to the algae farm, baby.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 10:32PM
You're sick man, get some help. You have a serious case of hate.
Julia's baby daddy| 5.5.12 @ 9:04AM
Perp, we are on the same side baby. We need to let the other side know how clever we are by giving them examples of the nuanced ways we think. From race to sexual preference we are the ones who set the tone. If somebody does something bad like kill a bunch of black people in Tulsa then he is white for instance. The less nuanced might think he is Native American but we know that we keep that label for people like the authentic rich folk Little Bit Warren. Did you know her grand daddy had high cheek bones? That is a dead giveaway that she should receive affirmative action benefits. That and she is a Democrat. Now that is what I am talking about. Not everybody can think this way. Sure, you can after you are told how to think but a lot of people let logic get in the way. You know the conservatives and such. Likewise a lot of people look at what we have done in green energy and think, wow President Obama is just a corrupt government official giving money to his friends. They are not all my friends, some of them are my money bundlers. Frankly we blew so much money I hardly know where any of it went. See we are nuanced. Some might look at guys like you and say he is doing unhealthy things to his body. In the same way the lung shouldn't be used as a smoke receptacle, these foolish individuals believe that the lower bowel shouldn't be used as an amusement park for foreign objects. Gosh is that crazy. I mean people have the right to do whatever they want and expect others to pay for it. It has been the theme of your life and you are what we call nuanced. Just as another example the simple minded think that killing someone is worse than sleep deprivation but we know that killing them is more humane even if we take some kids and women out in a drone attack. That is nuanced. After the drone attack nobody will be talking bad about me and me is what it is all about. Navy Seals risking their very lives might seem like the ultimate but it was actually me making the decision to go in and get Obama bin Laden. I mean they would have just died and I would have had political consequences while living the big life in retirement. Do you feel me? We are nuanced. Well I hope this helped you. You are at the lower end of the nuance scale. You are not logical but just not smart enough to think of nonstop crap like this. You would be harmless if it wasn't for the truly nuanced part of the Democratic Party that pulls your strings so to speak. I am off to meet with Speaks with Forked Tongue Warren and then on to the golf course. Did you notice in the Julia slide show that I never leave? We are doing focus groups and polling on the idea of making me President for life Idi Amin Obama DaDa. Has a nice ring don't it? All the algae is going to gitmo until they decide to cooperate, baby.
Nick099| 5.4.12 @ 10:29AM
Nice article...but I disagree with one point:
These Dummycrats would not tell you now that they would like to abolish private property rights or inheritance because they would be run out on a rail. So they chip away slowly over time, bit by bit.
Who in their right mind thinks an inheritance tax at 50% is somehow not designed to penalize inheritance????? Only a freakin imbecile.
No Mr. Kangor, West was right and it is high time someone took the fight right to the face of the opposition and called them out for what they are. If you are a Marxist, and I do not care what variety, you should be confronted, exposed, and driven out of office. Marxism is anathema to the Constitution of the United States. You cannot be a Marxist and carry out your oath of office faithfully....period.
Mimi Mayes | 5.4.12 @ 11:08AM
So many intelligent posts here once Purp decided he could no longer compete and took a powder. Keep it up, Col. West!!
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 5:21PM
Wrong on all counts.
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 6:59PM
Yea, you usually are. It's part of being a leftist. You should be used to it by now.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 10:32PM
No, I'm not, but you didn't say anything of value.. move on. as usual.
k962| 5.4.12 @ 10:52AM
Communism is just the next step in expanding socialism! West has it right! Progressive Caucus is nothing more than Socialists founded by a self professed Socialist Bernie Sanders!
Michael | 5.4.12 @ 10:52AM
I can't help but wonder if Mr. Kengor has ever visited a combat zone, as Rep. West definitely has. I am sure Mr. West did not tip toe in war and now that he is in a different kind of battle, it is highly unlikely that he will learn that tactic.
IMNSHO one of the reasons we have allowed our country to get in the current predicament has been too much soft selling while 'the other side' has reached their constituencies by screeching from the roof tops.
Colonel West, carry on. Pay no mind to those who would stifle or muzzle you.
GB
Son of Liberty| 5.4.12 @ 11:42AM
Paul: I grew up down the road from Grove City. Great school. Would suggest a think piece for you and your students. Take all of the legislation proposed by the left since the adoption of the Great Society and make the assumption that all of it would have been implemented. Tell me what the country would look like with respect to rights under the Bill of Rights with respect to people in America labeled as Conservatives. I'm serious. Be honest and tell us what American would look like for Conservatives with respect to Free Speech, Religion, the Right to keep and bear arms; political demonstrtations, unreasonable search and seizure, etc. Then, being honest, tell us whether we would look more like the old Soviet Union or pre-Woodrow Wilson America.
I think your research would show that Alan West looks at what the "Progressives and Liberals" have proposed for this country over the years and sees things very clearly.
Stormy| 5.4.12 @ 11:44AM
"What he ought to say, however, is that a large number of them share some sympathies and even certain goals with communists, but they're not full-blown CPUSA members."
And, you know that, how?
Petronius| 5.4.12 @ 12:40PM
Another fight over definitions. Fine! Let's settle this. Anybody who is Not an Individualist and embraces the traditional American cultural imperative of establishing and maintaining him or her Self in Our Traditional Ordered American Society is a collectivist and communist by default, and should not live here. Take your character deficiencies somewhere else. You are mill stones around our necks and we can't afford being forced to subsidize you just because you vote for Demoncrats and RINO's who plunder Our Earnings to buy you on election day. I'd like to see Allen West as Dictator so he could haul your sordid asses out of your mommies basements and deport you all to Cuba.
RCV| 5.5.12 @ 4:39PM
I'm sure you would like to see Col West as military dictator. Why don't you and he head to Singapore or some other "ordered" society where you wouldn't have to put up with diversity of opinion?
Todd S| 5.5.12 @ 9:24PM
You got a problem with Singapore RCV? I much rather have their government then the corrupt power hungry fools we have here now. Sure they would be better in long run to open their political system to competition but they actually have less corruption then we have here right now that is for sure. I was born in Singapore and grew up there and they got a good thing going because they don't give the socialist the time of day. Many of them are descended from those that escaped the hell that is China and know where that road leads. Much better than a hellhole like Oakland that is for sure.
RCV| 5.5.12 @ 10:48PM
Then head back to your birthplace, Todd. I'm hardly surprised you'd rather have the orderliness of an authoritarian controlled state than the messiness of a free society. I'll stick with the USA, thanks.
Occam's Tool| 5.6.12 @ 11:26PM
Problem with Singapore is that they bow to Islam a little too much.
RCV| 5.7.12 @ 12:57PM
Way too much. And it's only one of their problems. A mania for security, orderliness and conformity over personal freedom is their biggest problem.
Todd S| 5.7.12 @ 3:49PM
That was not my point RCV but to act like Singapore is some authoritarian state like China is ridiculous. Actually it is you progressive liberals that want a more authoritative state and have much praise for China (see Thomas Friedman and Andy Stern among others), what is Obamacare and cap and trade among other liberal proposals then making the state authoritative? Spare me your self righteous attitude when you support authoritative policies here in the US you hypocrite.
RCV| 5.7.12 @ 5:08PM
Of course Singapore isn't China, or even close to it, Todd. And it actually has tried to walk a fine line between maintaining relations with Israel and appeasing its 15% Muslim population. But I don't take your analogy between authoritarian regimes and those that seek more universal access to medical care for its citizens, or limits on pollution.
And I'm not a hypocrite.
Todd S| 5.7.12 @ 5:36PM
I said that because you accused me of wanting authoritative government when that is not true at all and it is certainly true progressive liberals want more authoritative government then conservatives however you want to phrase it. And don't tell me that Obamacare and Cap and Trade would not make the government more authoritative because that is nonsense. The fact you agree with is does not make it any less authoritative. Cap and Trade has very little to do with pollution and everything with government controlling the economy for its own sake and would definitely increase government corruption of power.
I said I think Singapore should open their system more going forward because the government should be held accountable and you cannot rely on the benevolence of government leaders. Lee Kuan Yew has been an extraordinary leader and a rare leader who used his great power wisely for the most part which is demonstrated by Singapore's remarkable prosperity. But that is not a system that will endure well so it should change going forward. But comparing their system to say France or Greece and it does not look too bad.
My problem is that the liberal progressives want to follow the European system which is falling apart right before our eyes and the people were clearly lied to regarding the costs of Obamacare. Liberal utopia policies always leads to a dead end because you always run out of other peoples money and changing demographics are accelerating the collapse.
Todd S| 5.7.12 @ 3:53PM
And that does not happen here? They are a significant part of their population so they have to walk a fine line though I don't really know the particulars but I doubt it is much worse than here.
Jd| 5.4.12 @ 12:53PM
Mr. Kengor:
I think you are mostly nit picking here. Congress West made a true statement about the Democratic delegation in congress. My take on your article is this. At the end of the day, what is the functional difference between a liberal, socialist, progressive or a communist?
They may start at different points, on their way to fulfill their end desires. They all wind up pointing in the same direction. It is only a matter of degrees. Being a leftist is like being a little bit pregnant. It may not show at first but it only gets bigger.
Your argument reminds me of medieval priests arguing over how many angles can dance on the head of a pin. The only thing one must remember is this. These people are creatures of the left and one should shun them.
David| 5.4.12 @ 1:09PM
I am loving the comments here. There is absolutely no reason to tip-toe around what the left is. West is correct to lump them all together. Flippin' repubs and conservatives in office, PLEASE go on offense for a change. Roll back the damage the left has done. Stop simply slowing the pace of the move to the left.
Put the flippin' nation in a fast reverse mode. Watch the immediate results, and enjoy staying in control for a long time to come.
Ken| 5.4.12 @ 3:20PM
Just because a hound doesn't have papers from the kennel society doesn't mean he's not a dog. Just because most Democrats aren't card carrying Communists doesn't mean that they aren't communists in the philosophical sense of the word.
I'm sick and tired of liberals calling conservatives Nazis and Fascists yet getting their panties all in the bunch when we denounce them as communists. What is particularly galling is that when they call us Nazis they ignore the fact that the original Nazis were the German SOCIALIST Workers Party-- and other words, Nazis have far more in common with the left than the right.
Thom| 5.4.12 @ 3:28PM
Fascism is practical “socialism” which works with human nature (the bad part) while Communism tries to remake Humanity into a Bee Hive society. One works to a certain degree and one has failed everywhere it has been tried if you measure results against promises.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 5:23PM
True communism, yes, but there has never been an implementation of true communism by humans. Totalitarianism is shared by Soviet style communism and Nazi style fascism.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 5:50PM
Tell me exactly how "true communism" would work Purp? I believe Lenin considered himself a true communist who implemented a political system as advocated by Karl Marx as closely as humanly possible. How exactly does the utopia communist fantasy come into being?
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 10:35PM
Like I said, it never has - humans are not that altruistic. We are bred to be competitive and to survive, survival of the fittest. You ought to understand that - you are just like that. You wouldn't share your blessings with anyone else, would you?
If you don't understand that difference between theory and practice, that's your problem, not mine.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 11:16PM
The theories of the left and the reality of how it actually works are day and night. Tell me how that great society is working out Purp? Let us take a look at all those wonderful inner cities controlled by liberals for decades like Detroit, Baltimore, DC, Miami, Buffalo, Oakland etc. Real utopia you guys are building there, we should just turn over all power to you progressive liberals with your tremendous track record and the booming Obama economy. Just a another 5 or 10 trillion in deficit spending and we will be well on our way. Paul Krugman says deficits don't matter and he has a Nobel Prize so he must be right.
Doctor Right| 5.4.12 @ 7:02PM
LOL! The siren-song of a leftist moron!
Communism has never been "done right"!
Here's a clue, genius...it CAN'T ever be "done right" because it's a false ideology built on lies, half-truths, and distortions.
You can't have Communism without totalitarianism; that's because once they get a real taste of Communism, the people reject it, so force is used to prop up the apparatus of the state.
Seriously...go back to school
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 10:45PM
Never, and never will - so all your protestations about the Left wanting communism is a pile of bull excrement. It isn't going to happen, period. I never said I'd want it to happen anyway. You all put those words out there as propaganda, but it doesn't work, because you're too extreme, too sure you know what you know about someone else's thoughts. It's sad really.
You need to study human behavior. Capitalism works because it based on a basic human driver - greed. Communism never works because it is based on a fantasy - human altruism. If communism needs to be forced and it turns to totalitarianism, it's not communism any longer, ya know? Get that?
As much as you might like to believe it, the Left does believe in capitalism, with controls, with brakes. You don't, and that's why we get bubbles when Republicants are in charge with unbridled greed. Greed inevitably corrupts and blows up. It did in 1929 and it did again when enough controls were removed in 2007. Controlled greed creates miracles...
Go learn something not heard on Fixed News or Rush Loudmouth.
Adam Smith knew it and said it - if you read his whole book, not just the chapters you like. Alexander Hamilton knew it, so did Jefferson and Madison. Why do you think they put checks and balances on the branches of government. They understood human behavior - you don't. Even Milton Friedman knew it and said it... but you won't hear that from the right - it's not the party line. Even Alan Greenspan admitted as much in his book.
I suggest you do some more reading before you throw bricks at another house.
Julia's baby daddy| 5.5.12 @ 9:16AM
Stop talking about checks and balances and human nature when we are trying to infinitely expand the federal government with nuanced, well off bureaucrats. Gosh what led you to that from the accusation that Communism can't work? In your dribble you seemed to imply that we are for totalitarianism which I guess might be true since we are grabbing of infinite power. Hmm. Oh well, off to golf course,baby.
Thom| 5.4.12 @ 3:23PM
"Nonetheless, that said, the left side of the political spectrum is very broad. It includes Democrats, liberals, progressives, "social-justice" Christians, socialists, communists, Marxists, Leninists, Stalinists, Maoists, and more. There are distinct differences"
"The differences are matters of degree, but they are crucial differences -- so crucial, in fact, that liberals are not communists."
Mr. Kengor,
Such academic nonsense has no practical value to the Farmer who gets his cows and farm taken from him by the Communists or its use appropriated by the Nazis or taxed/regulated out of existence by Progressives/Liberals to serve the States's interest. The cow ends up dead either way and the proceeds from it serve the "state" not the Farmer's interest. The collective mechanism that results in the destruction of property rights and individuality is irrelevant to the eventual outcome.
You don't seem to understand the "progressive" nature of moving from a Capitalist free enterprise system to pure Communism as outlined by Marx. To favor any of the wealth redistribution, progress tax, private property destroying policy ideas put forth by Marx makes you a "Marxists" in all due respect. The 31 flavors of Marx's "socialism" all lead to the same end point, per Marx. If you don't get this try this experiment. No two venomous snakes produce the same kinds of "poison" making their differences a "matter of degree" in academic terms. Which one of the hundreds of different venomous snakes would you be willing to be beaten by based on these so called "crucial differences"?
Once you throw out principle all that remains is emotional arguments revolving around "matters of degree" of impact. We know how this story ends .....
Next you’ve be telling us that only “20%” of the population are Liberals…. while knowing that one of the central tenets in Marxism is deceit.
Crassus| 5.4.12 @ 4:55PM
Hubert Humphrey and George McGovern would both be considered right wing extremists by today's Democratic Party. They would both be drummed out just like Joe Lieberman.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 5:25PM
What???? What planet are you from?
Pete| 5.4.12 @ 10:25PM
One in which people have God-Given freedom to run their own lives.
Purp| 5.4.12 @ 10:48PM
At one time, the King was God-given ... you're being so provincial. That didn't just happen, it had to be fought for. Nothing God-given about freedom - ask all the fallen heros of all our wars. You crap on their heroism if you don't believe they earned our freedom. Go learn something.
Julia's baby daddy| 5.5.12 @ 9:18AM
Now your criticizing the Declaration of Independence. Holy Cow. Stop going off the talking points. It looks easy but there is no way you should be thinking on your own. Let me golf in peace, baby.
From the Desk of Media Matters| 5.5.12 @ 10:24PM
Another Slut In The News's panderer,
MM staff knows better than to complain what with swimming in other people's money and all, but we do have to associate daily with a multitude of bottom rung MM mindless retarded parrots, every one of them homosexual depravities just like the ones trolling here.
MM staff just wants to again show our appreciation for your visits here, providing a little refuge here for we grateful MM staff.
MM staff finds it most ironic that your visits here do actually provide hope for change leaping greatly forward. Huh.
Thanks again Ill Douche.
- MM staff
Pete| 5.5.12 @ 11:41AM
How did I know you would have problem with the mention of God? My freedom comes from my being, which was not created by government or a bunch of busy bodies who think they have the right to tell me how to live. It comes from God.
BTW: I am a vet, somehow I doubt you ever fought for anything.
Occam's Tool| 5.6.12 @ 11:27PM
Communism is a Procrustean bed. Marx was an idiot. "Never done right." Sheesh.
Crassus| 5.4.12 @ 11:24PM
I'm from Neptune, Junior. How about yourself?
John| 5.4.12 @ 6:27PM
Yes, and the pro-life, Catholic, low-tax, anti-Communist JFK would probably never get anywhere in the modern Democrat party. His "secret" adultery would get him points, though.
KJW| 5.4.12 @ 6:11PM
Neat that both Rush Limbaugh and "McCarthyism" are mentioned in this article: Mr. Limbaugh once defined "McCarthyism" (in the sense of the original 50s era investigation) as "calling someone a communist...when they are ". I hope Rep. West never backs down given the behavior of too many of today's Democrat congresspeople.
John| 5.4.12 @ 6:21PM
So Paul, your criticism of West is that he calls a large portion of liberal Democrats "communist". Then you go on to agree that these liberals basically agree with all major tenets of Marxism, but they still aren't communists...because...well...you say so. Wow. Take THAT Allen West! Then you go on that the media is stacked against us and unfairly claims "McCarthyism" so we should just give in. Again, wow. Surely you're aware from the Verona Transcripts and archives after the USSR fell that McCarthy was right about almost every single person he went after. You wrote a really weird article.
John| 5.4.12 @ 6:28PM
As some have posted here, what is the big deal with what West said? THEY have self-identified themselves as "progressives" and subscribe to the Socialist Party of America. He is just acknowledging that FACT.
zamoracarl| 5.4.12 @ 7:47PM
what Steve responded I am amazed that you able to get paid $8751 in one month on the internet. have you read this web pageM a k e c a s h 16 . c о m
MONTOVINE| 5.4.12 @ 8:00PM
I Think you are being way to nice in defending the Democrats. I don't think any hardcore regime takeover did it quickly. So half the pie, then all the pie.
Julia's baby daddy| 5.4.12 @ 8:06PM
Perp, Jackl, Fister and Mr. DEad, you frigging idiots. We give you talking points for a reason. None of you have an IQ anywhere big enough to go off script. That is why I don't do press conferences any more. My motto is repeat what the teleprompter tells me. You are all so stupid that you have given the enemy nothing but high hopes today. We are trying to demoralize them and here you go. You are all so stupid that you don't seem to recognize that your butts are being kicked. It is time to start talking about this year's pretend summer of recovery. If we piss down the backs of the unemployed and tell them it is rain we will ride this to White House. We make reality. Wind turbines, out of business solar panel companies, and get this algae will take over from fossil fuels for our country's energy needs. If you read the small print we will all be living in mud huts while starving to death but do not be concerned. We will still have fossil fuels but will have funneled off a bunch of money to some very important rich people. That is really what progressives do. Talk about progress while conning people out of votes and enriching ourselves. Here is another good one,"we will never touch Social Security and Medicare." Small print, "until it goes broke which ain't that far off." We make reality. In our world, we will take bullet trains to the super market and won't need cars. In the mean time get a bicycle and get ready for a bunch of exercise. You will eventually look like my spendthrift wife Michelle. Apparently riding a bike gives you a really chubby ass. I have a campaign event with Littlebit Warren this weekend. We will smoke the peace pipe and do some pow wow clubbin' with those of the high cheek bones. After I ditch my Native American friend I will be off the golf course for what I do best, try to find golf balls that have went everywhere except where I was aiming. Actually I use the Secret Service for this important security function. I know you guys have been doing a swell job singing my praises about Obama bin Laden. It is like slick Willy said. I took great risks. What if those dumb ass Seals got killed? Could you imagine what would have happened to me? I might have had to retire to a very rich life prematurely and what would have happened to Julia? I still don't get why that was a lot riskier than what the dumb ass Seals that got themselves killed for big corporations were doing. David says he will explain so even I can understand it. Michelle will be out of town so I will spend the whole weekend with one of my many composite girlfriends. Apparently our enemies don't think much of our weak "take what you want" negotiating style. Hit that overcharge button and put Hillary to work, baby.
Donald Young's Revenge| 5.5.12 @ 4:56PM
Here is what we need to be focused on when it comes to Barack Hussein Obama. Congressman West as well as Senator Rubio were hand delivered enough criminal evidence to sink any candidate or government representative and they did nothing, nada, zippo. Sheriff Joe Arpaio and his lead investigator Mike Zullo highlighted the evidence that West and Rubio were hand delivered months before. Both of these "rising stars" in the Republican Party did nothing. That Press Conference by Arpaio and Zullo should have opened the flood gates of Congress beginning right there in West and Rubio's offices, but nothing but silence. Sitting around hoping this usurper loses the election is total insanity and a cowards way out. He needs to be forced into a resignation. There is more available to force this resignation than there ever was to force Nixon to resign.
Julia's baby daddy| 5.5.12 @ 7:19PM
Who's side are you on, Oh Donny Boy? Strangely I think you are on mine. Rendition for the blind Chinese, baby.
From the Desk of Media Matters| 5.5.12 @ 11:13PM
Another Slut In The News's panderer,
MM staff is sorry about that. You know the drill - so to speak - blow a little smoke in their beaks to get them eating the bottom rung MM mindless retarded parrot cracker- so to speak - next thing you know the feather-brained bottom rung MM mindless retarded parrots do the unthinkable and try and show initiative, such as going off script, or trolling before even learning to void their droppings outside the nest.
MM staff, what with the ongoing quest for slogans, the success of Mao's 'Forward', the mention of Chinese and rendition, and 'backward' leanings of all our bottom rung MM mindless retarded parrot homosexual trolls just like the ones here, wish to submit 'Reerect Obowelma '12', or 'Reerect Obaoma '12', whichever rims around the tongue - so to speak - for your consideration.
MM staff had forgotten earlier and really just wanted to wish you happy 'Cinco De Quatro'. For the quatroth consecutive ano.
- MM staff
Julia's baby daddy| 5.6.12 @ 12:09AM
I want to wish media masters a happy and jolly cinco de Mayo unless you are involved somehow with those evil white Hispanics. Once I figure out who exactly they are I will feel better. I believe that they are Hispanic people who have been racially profiled to be white people before the nuanced class knew what the hell was going on. Not everybody can think like this. Some people just see fellow human beings but they are shallow types that don't know how to properly take advantage of a tragic situation. No one will ever accuse me of that. I watched the Rev Wright get everybody going every Sunday. Nothing could compare with it unless you happen to catch a hornet's nest of a Mosque on Friday. I don't know what they tell them but it damn sure isn't love your brother as yourself. I think our bonified trolls will really get behind the Reerect Obowelma '12'. They damn sure don't want to be in front of it. What is it about gay men that they want to slave for me? It is ironic no? Well I think I will take a bullet train to a wind farm just for the hell of it, baby.
The great Satan| 5.4.12 @ 9:06PM
I would like to comment on this article but I don't have three hours to rebut every stupid claim in it. I love this site though, making America even more stupid one post at a time.
Earth To Dickface| 5.6.12 @ 10:51PM
Funny how everyone, and I mean everyone, used to be scared of you. Then you let it be known you are just another clueless lib. Now you can't get anyone to bite on your lame treacle - over an entire weekend.
Unless you count this post, which calls you a dickface. And a liberal.
Hey, which is worse? Never mind, no one cares.
Loser.
WM| 5.4.12 @ 9:18PM
Kengor doesn't get it. He thinks the left thinks and operates like people on the right, only with some different ideas.
They ARE communists. Communism is an ideology, not an organization. Anyone who adheres to the basic tenets of any communist system of thought - Leninism, Marxism, Stalinism, Trotskyism, Debbism, etc. - is a communist, no matter how they condition it.
Communists/leftists LIE about their beliefs. They are practicing a form of deception akin to the Islamist taqiyya. They lie because they know their beliefs are not acceptable. Saying that so-and-so is not a communist because he doesn't want to destroy ALL private enterprise misses the point about communists and communism. ALL of them will push the collectivist ideal into practice as far as they possibly can. If this country were as socialized today as they claim they want it, these same people would push for even more. When we got there, they would push for outright Soviet-style collectivism.
Want proof? Look around you - the so-called "blue dog Democrats" have evaporated, revealing the basic ruse of the Democrat Party about their true beliefs and intentions.
Todd S| 5.4.12 @ 10:28PM
West is correct of course. The socialist left has seized control of the Democrat Party, the fact they choose Stretch Pelosi as their leader demonstrates this. Many of them praise Castro like the Black Caucus does routinely and admire Chavez and think China has a better system than we do. They are envious of their power, Barack Obama said as much himself and liberal bigwigs like Andy Stern and Thomas Friedman praise China openly. These people are evil because their hearts are corrupt with their desire for power over their fellow man.
POST American| 5.4.12 @ 11:44PM
---------------------FINAL WORD-----------------------
AGAIN, laying aside this rather routine
'80's Show' FALSE spectrum breakdown of the
CFR----USURPATION OP now entering its
FINAL phase (OCCUPATION and EUGENICS) --
ONE and ALLLL should be especially
aware of the ongoing MAO-ist/RED China
imagery acclimation ops streaming rhough
the entire capstone controlled media
and 'cull-chore'.
This consists of symbols, color schemes,
footage blends, stealth slogan implanting etc.
AS the'ITs' are getting wise
--------------------they're getting desperate.
---"OH, but we know that already!
---it ain't important!"
---AH! --but be even MORE AWARE--
the reality is, the mind itself ---HAS NO FIRE WALL!
Doesn't even matter how 'smart' you
might think you are.
IT'S A FACT!
Calvin was DEAD RIGHT in citing scripture
on the inescapbale human reality of TOTAL
DEPRAVITY ---and IDOLATRY.
It's just the way we are.
SO ---don't be a Pavlovian chump!
(----And yet another reason WHY we
have no TV or radio in our home ---and
confine the PC to work spaces)
TLP| 5.5.12 @ 5:36PM
I love ya, man.
You're an original.
Don't ever change.
I'm a huge fan.
crossworked| 5.5.12 @ 2:20AM
Do not bring a bong to a gun fight my lib bros and sisters. come to Chicago for the new awakening. free food ,housing, condoms, morning after pills, NBC, MSNBC first hand accounts of torture ........and jail.
Bring a cell phone to call mommy and daddy to get you out. We are such a sordid nation....oh, you did not pay your bill? Call Soros
lunettes de soleil pas cher | 5.5.12 @ 4:20AM
goog
Psalms 101| 5.5.12 @ 10:34AM
Odd that an author from Grove City College would miss the most obvious distinction that tells me Congressman Allen West's remarks about 78 - 81 are communists is...
very simple.
The are anti-faith. They are not Christians. They are violently opposed to Christian faith, the Bible and man's first duty to God Almighty.
Oh, these coots that wish for votes and dupe stupid pastors year by year, oh, they'll say, "But I am a Christian!"
Uh-huh. Just like I am a banker because I've been in banks dozens and dozens of times in my life.
Look, folks, a basic tenet of communism is that God is dead. And the state is god. Or the party is god. There can be no God because the god one is to serve from birth to death is the party. And the party defines morality. Communism kills off God every time.
And that is what the Democratic Party has and is doing.
I know of no Democratic Party leader who is a Christian in year 2012. I know of no Democratic Party leader who willfully and fully lives / aims to subjugate his life to God Almighty.
Do you, Mr. Kengor?
And don't tell me that only God can judge the heart. (read Psalms over and over and over -- and then Proverbs over and over and over)
Surely Mr. Kengor talks this with his students? If you do not, Mr. Kengor, you need to resign. I am told that Grove City College is a good Christian school. Is this so? It cannot be so if truth is not taught there. God's Truth.
Allan West does not need to be careful with his words -- when his words are true.
Nor should you if you are a man who places his life in the Hands of Almighty God.
Marc Jeric| 5.5.12 @ 12:00PM
I am for west - he called them communists, whether they are members or only sympathisers. What's the difference? Under the color of Democrats, socialists, liberals, or progressives - they are all in effect communists.
shipley130| 5.5.12 @ 12:31PM
Bring on the McCarthyism. Why do congressional members think they are immune to inspection or criticism? That's where their little communist roots start showing.
shipley130| 5.5.12 @ 12:54PM
To be accurate, then, according to your article, Allen West must clarify his message and say that there is a communist front in congress called the Progressive Democratic Caucus. That seems more like a mincing of words that you are upset about. That's just what the commies want.
hook| 5.5.12 @ 1:36PM
Superb article. It is true that West should have tempered his language but it is also true that the Dem party and the Republican party have moved far to the left. It is specifically true that the Democrats are really now European Socialists and I find it so puzzling that a 70yr old who lauded Kennedy or even Clinton cannot see how much further to the left Obama is.
Harry Beadle| 5.5.12 @ 8:15PM
West may have misspoken but probably not by much. What the Left doesn't want us to remember when it accuses someone of McCarthyism is that while he may have been a bully and a drunk, history proved Joe McCarthy was also right.
Occam's Tool| 5.5.12 @ 11:30PM
Mr. Beadle: correct.
rongordo | 5.6.12 @ 12:34AM
Turn thy other cheek has NEVER worked for the Republican party. At some point, they'll have to adapt, otherwise they simply end up like the British soldiers, being forced to stand in formation during a battle, while colonials, hiding behind rocks and trees slaughter them. The British generals refused to fight in such an uncivilized manner, and the rest is history.
Petronius| 5.6.12 @ 2:36PM
r
Glad you mentioned that. If the bulk of British military assets were not deployed in India at the time, we wouldn't be here.
If the Left which rules and ruins this country is not defeated this year, we won't be here next year.
Indy| 5.6.12 @ 2:57PM
Allen West at his best, great speech
http://www.therightscoop.com/m.....ay-dinner/
Gazinya| 5.6.12 @ 8:30PM
Thanks for the insight Mr. Kengor but you are wrong Mr. West is correct. How many different species of ducks can you name? In the final analysis 'if it quacks, walks, looks like a duck.....' get the point. These Democrats, Socialists, Liberals are that way because they believe in Communisim. The Obama says he is a Christian yet I haven't seen one act of Christian values fall out of that mans' mouth. He is a duck.
jstwndring| 5.7.12 @ 4:53PM
Yeah. And regarding his alleged "Christianity", I watched Obama on ABC with George Stephanopoulos accidentally refer to his Muslim faith. This, of course, panicked Mr. Stephanopoulos who quickly and quite nervously corrected him. It must be challenging for Obama to keep all the lies straight ALL the time. He's doing his best.
Gazinya| 5.6.12 @ 8:47PM
The Obama is a typical Democrat!!
Democrat= Any person who thinks like The Obama.
Communists= The Obama.
Martin| 5.7.12 @ 2:12AM
Don't quibble over details just to prove how smart you think you are. Most Democrats in office are Communists at heart, they are just too stupid to realize it and too lazy to read a chapter ahead in the plan. You think Maxine Waters would hesitate to go the full monty on the little red book if she could? You think she could read it out loud without embarrassing herself? Don't expect absolute syntactic and symantic perfection from conservatives when the opponents are allowed so much slop. There is a reason why they are called useful idiots, and useful idiots are still communists if they help the drummer move things ever leftwards.
Bob| 5.7.12 @ 11:36AM
I'm sorry, but this article makes me ill.
Rex Huppke is right -- facts don't matter anymore.
When a congressman can call, without a shred of evidence, his political opponents communists, and... God...
Haven't you people ever read "Politics and the English Language"? Don't you know what you're doing?
"Fascism, socialism, progressive, communism -- of course they all mean the same thing, because they're all things we don't like!"
Dear God.
jstwndring| 5.7.12 @ 4:36PM
"Sure, West appears to be thinking of the far-left Democratic Socialists of America, many of whose members justifiably invite suspicions, as well as the Congressional Progressive Caucus. What he ought to say, however, is that a large number of them share some sympathies and even certain goals with communists, but they're not full-blown CPUSA members."
The ONLY reason that Democrats in Washington don't drop all pretense and join the CPUSA is because this is a Constitutional Republic. They have to make it look good. They can call themselves socialists, or, progressives if they want, but, all that is is the marketable version of Communism peddled to naive westerners lacking discernment. I am constantly amazed by individuals well versed in nuance to the point of blindness. I understand what you are saying. You don't want West's comments to be labeled a witch-hunt that could be used to discredit him. So, shall we use more tasteful language and generically refer to them as collectivists? That works for me as long as we describe what collectivism is. Of course, that leads us back to Karl Marx and his Communist Manifesto. Uh-oh. There's that C-word again. Wait! Did you hear that? I think someone just stepped on a duck......
Ron| 5.7.12 @ 6:43PM
Point of Clarification: Congressman West has a sense of humor - as I recall his statement was that "there are about 79 or 80 communists in congress, (pause) . . . they're called the congressional progressive caucus".
IT WAS A TEASE of the CPC, for cryin' out loud!
I don't really expect libturds to appreciate the joke, but the writer of this article seems to have let it fly over his head completely. We can have a little fun from time to time, can't we?
Burlington| 5.10.12 @ 1:30PM
Congratulations Rep. West, you've pinned the tail on the donkey. The Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi had read into the Congressional Record an acknowledgement of Communist Harry Bridges 100th birthday. Harry Bridges was a Longshoreman's Union boss.
Don't let them hide behind a clever pseudonym. Keep it up.