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Car Guy
‘Your’ Car Won’t Be After 2015
Mandatory “Event Data Recorders” will even know you’re speeding in reverse.
(Page 2 of 2)
And once SB 1813 is passed and signed into law, there will no longer be an opt-out. In fact, sure as the rooster crows in the morning, you can bet the next step will a law requiring older cars not originally fitted with the technology be fitted with it — or else decommissioned. It is inconceivable that they — the government and its insurance company cronies — will allow anyone to drive a vehicle not subject to this monitoring and control. They will insist it’s not “safe” — and of course, “unfair” that owners of older cars not equipped with EDRs are able to “get away” with “speeding” and not wearing their seat belts.
Our cars were once a tangible expression of the freedom ideal. They are fast becoming mobile cages. And the really devilish thing is they’re making us pay the costs of our own imprisonment, too.
About the Author
Eric Peters is an automotive columnist and author of Automotive Atrocities: The Cars You Love to Hate (Motor Books International) and a new book, Road Hogs.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (163) | Leave a comment
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Appleby| 4.25.12 @ 6:33AM
Yep, it's the End Times. The next step will be a microchip implanted in every baby at birth, just like the cats and dogs now get, and we all know where that leads...and the only consolation we who don't drive or have brand new binkies that download "apps" when we aren't looking for this precise reason, is the hoo-hah this will raise when the Marching Mommies finally realize that the burdens they have been binding on the backs of the rest of us have finally landed on them.
There will, of course, be plenty of exceptions -- for Union members, government employees, Congress, and those who are cronies of those who are all of the above.
Mike G| 4.25.12 @ 9:27AM
I think that's a great idea! Implant chips at birth. After all, it will keep our kids safe. And while we're at it, maybe we should build 20 foot reinforced walls around all of our schools--to keep the kids safe. Oh, and why don't we put security cameras in all the houses so we can tell if kids are being abused--after all, we want to keep them safe. Isn't is nice to feel safe?
Citizen Jerry| 4.25.12 @ 3:14PM
"Well I know my number's up and I'm willing to die,
if the band will play Six-Sixty-Six."
-- Larry Norman
liz| 4.27.12 @ 8:25AM
Of course ! I'm sure you know that by this time next year , according to the O H Care Bill.. ( We won't know what's in it , until we pass it ) we are too have a "medical info" implant ! Yep.. not science fiction now is it boys ?!
KyMouse| 4.25.12 @ 4:12PM
Indeed, Appleby.
Is Progressive's "Snapshot" device part of this scheme? One can get a deep discount on the company's car insurance after attaching the Snapshot "device" to the vehicle.
With it, Progressive's web site says, "you keep track of your good driving habits." They do too, of course.
It looks as if one keeps the Snapshot thingy on the car for six months.
The thin end of the wedge?
darcy| 4.26.12 @ 3:36AM
You all do know, of course, that Progressive Insurance is owned by a BIG COMMIE?
Iron Sights| 4.26.12 @ 4:37PM
He's a big commie, a big pot head, and likes to support far left crazyness.
Brutus| 4.26.12 @ 11:09PM
But that will be implanting the Mark of the Beast of Revelation - and be sure that in the end there will be absolutely NO exceptions!!! God Have Mercy upon us all as we'll ALL be compelled to have that Mark implanted either in our foreheads or right-hands... This is downright SATANIC!!!
aware| 4.25.12 @ 6:46AM
Hey Vern, don't read this cause Eric Peters also appears on LewRockwell.com and you said only "loons" read that.
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 4.25.12 @ 6:49AM
Hopefully older vehicles won't be retrofitted during my lifetime. Ironically, this law may serve the purpose of making used cars more valuable.
The D.C. government already had tag readers, and so do many other cities, where hundreds of thousands of tags are recorded and stored away in government data banks.
The article has a good point though. The prisoners will soon be paying for their own cages. What irony.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/.....aders.html
Peoria police officials have requested $45,000 in the coming fiscal year for equipment to discourage speeding near schools and neighborhoods, and technology to capture license-plate data.
The latter raised privacy concerns for some council members at a recent budget meeting.
As drivers pass by an area, a license-plate reader could record plate information, which police could use to investigate crimes, Police Chief Roy Minter Jr. said.
The reader would be attached to a mobile trailer that shows drivers their speed.
Councilman Dave Pearson questioned who would have access to the recorded data, how it would be used and how the department would make sure the data are not just being gathered indiscriminately. He offered an example of a divorce attorney potentially requesting that information to track down someone's movements in a neighborhood.
DRA2010| 4.28.12 @ 1:08AM
Used cars?
Do you mean the used cars that were destroyed when anyone took advantage of "Cash for Clunkers"?
P.Smith| 4.25.12 @ 6:56AM
Another reason not to buy GM.
tom| 4.25.12 @ 3:06PM
Ford has it too . And many others so why you picking on GM my man . Uninformed people should not comment .....
L. Ross| 4.25.12 @ 6:56AM
Mr. Peters:
I appreciate your concerns, and I hope that they are not valid, as the future you are describing is not a pretty one.
That said, I have been a professional pilot since 1985, and have spent years flying planes with "black boxes". There was a great deal of pushback against this technology in the beginning by pilots with fears not unlike the ones you describe in your article. Against those objections, the black boxes were installed.
And you know what? Safety was improved. Accident investigations had a quantum leap of capability. We learned about microbursts from those black boxes, about cockpit distractions, about bad leadership styles. We have been aggressively pursuing ways to improve safety as a result of that increased data stream, and those efforts have been successful. Airline safety is legendary.
I have no doubt that similar safety improvements could be had with automobiles. I understand that you are all about the joy of driving, but the automobile death toll is staggering, and improvements to it are something we should all be able to celebrate.
I currently work in Air Force safety, and to me sir, you sound a bit like a guy wearing a tin foil hat.
Appleby| 4.25.12 @ 7:16AM
Airplanes are, by and large, a commercial enterprise and the rules and regs ought to be the best for commercial enterprises and should leave private people alone.
Last week a single man "of middle eastern background" robbed at least 12 women who were walking to work in one downtown neighbourhood, in the space of 3 hours. He did that with a handgun, which has been illegal in Canada since 1938. This has put a cramp in people walking to work, at least for the present. There is no absolute safety in the world. Indeed, encouraging people to rely on machinery and equipment to keep them safe, rather than the old fashioned virtues of paying attention to their surroundings instead of sticking their heads in their SmartPhones as they walk along a busy city street, is a dangerous change of pace.
L. Ross| 4.25.12 @ 7:41AM
Appleby:
There are things that machines can do much better than people. Calculators are an example. Antiskid brakes are an example. Power steering is an example. It would be nice to pretend that all drivers are using laser like focus at all times when they are on the streets, but everyone knows that isn't the case. If we are going to see improvements in traffic safety, it will most likely be through increased technology, not through more attentive drivers.
Mike 3/505| 4.25.12 @ 9:30AM
L. Ross,
As a fellow pilot, I can say, your point about aircraft is valid...to a certain extent. Regarding private automobiles...no way. Aircraft black boxes are there because of the fatality rate in a catastrophic crash resulting in no witnesses and little ability to analyze the cause. There is no real issue in that arena for cars. We have plenty of data without the black boxes. This is about control, pure and simple. The article is correct...we are going to be asked to pay for the bars in our cage.
Regards,
Mike
PIC, N7990T
darcy| 4.26.12 @ 3:54AM
WE ALL do know, don't we, that whenever a commercial interest is concerned, that rules are different???? When people PAY to fly, they have a reasonable expectation of arriving safely -- and therefore it is not UNreasonable to enforce measures that promote safe travel, including the "black box." (But not the TSA, that is a matter of a different kind altogether.)
However, the government's efforts to monitor private vehicular travel in the manner reviewed here is nothing short of paranoid, in the sense that our government's guilty conscience at having to-date enslaved us to such massive debt -- among numerous other restrictions of liberty -- is prompting it to go all out to ensure that the populace can make no assumptions whatsoever as to the nature of its status as freemen: in short -- we are not free, in any meaningful sense of the word. And we are certainly not free to change our status back to the freemen and women we once were.
Appleby| 4.25.12 @ 8:45PM
I am living proof that a calculator CANNOT do math better than the people who are punching in the numbers. All a machine can do is manipulate what it is fed, regardless of whether or not what it is fed is what the human who fed it thought she was punching in.
Garbage in = Garbage out.
Thisalso means, of course, that there are plenty of people around who can rewire those "devices" so they can fool the people who think all the answers to life are in the back of the book. Put not your faith in "devices." Anything man can program, man can re-program!
Back in the 1970s when you had to program your computer yourself, my sisters and I used to go through computer stores and sest up a simple Loop program so that the rows of screens endlessly scrolled THIS IS THE LAST STRAW FOR YOU, DUDE. Harmless fun with a point, for those who were smart enough to figure it out.
Leo| 4.26.12 @ 2:23PM
Yesterday in Dallas a 17-year-old high school girl was raped, stabbed and left to die by a psychopathic homeless man. So walking and mass transit is safer?
KB| 4.26.12 @ 7:01PM
And about 115 people died yesterday in car accidents.
Life is full of risks, one way or another.
Brian Mc| 4.25.12 @ 7:22AM
Ah, yes...the death toll is 'staggering'. And, if it weren't for the Winchester repeating rifle General Custer would still be with us today!
L. Ross| 4.25.12 @ 7:34AM
Just under 33,000 last year. To put that in perspective, we lost 55,000 in Vietnam in 18 years, 7,000 in Iraq AND Afghanistan in 10 years. Put another way, in an 80 year lifespan, there is about a one percent chance of death on the road. Obviously, it is a risk most are willing to accept, but it is a big risk. Driving is the most dangerous activities we all engage in every day.
Brian Mc| 4.25.12 @ 8:00AM
"Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countryman."
Samuel Adams
Bobloblaw| 4.25.12 @ 8:45AM
How about some more prespective? In the early 1970s nearly 50,000 people per year were dying in car accidents. Today with nearly 100m more people the number has fallen by 1/3. Pretty good and no need to have a fascist govt watching over us.
scotchieguy| 4.25.12 @ 9:37AM
It has literally nothing to do with safety and everything to do with control and revenue. There are daily speedtraps in my area on the interstate. I drive it every day. Speeding is never an issue, but distractive driving, cell phone usage, texting, tailgating, etc., are constantly a problem.
Oh, and the new law in MN fines you if you do not pull one lane over from the shoulder when someone else is pulled over. Imagine the safety of 20 cars freaking out hitting the next lane over simultaneously. Chaos on the freeway all in the name of "safety."
Yes, it is for the children. We have been down this road before.
The Big E| 4.25.12 @ 12:05PM
Motor vehicle law has almost nothing to do with safety and everything to do with revenue enhancement, both for the State and for insurers.
I remember a few years back we travelled from here in NC up to NJ to spend Tanksgiving with my wife's family. Traffic was absolutely terrible. There were, if I recall correctly, 109 miles of I-95 in the state of Maryland. Over that 109 mile stretch, I counted 114 instances where a Maryland trooper had pulled over a motor vehicle. Yes, I counted. That's what you do when you're creeping along at 5 to 10 mph. Only one or two of those involved an accident of some sort. The rest were . . . well I don't know. They certainly weren't for speeding, we got nowhere near the speed limit during the entire trip.
I told my wife I felt like we were in one of those old nature movies. You know, where the herd of caribou majestically migrate across the frozen north, followed along the edges by wolves who, from time to time, pick off one of the outliers who wasn't paying attention. We, of course, were the caribou.
Of course, each one of those stops meant a lot of dough for the state, and for insurers.
Nelson H.| 4.25.12 @ 7:30AM
You miss the point. If the government knows every little detail about your transit habits that imposes one more level of surveillance, taxation and oppression on the populace. This law is not about safety at all--it's about control.
L. Ross| 4.25.12 @ 7:37AM
I did not dismiss the potential for abuse, but potential is not a guarantee of abuse. It has not been abused in aviation. Who wouldn't like to see the death toll go from 33,000 per year down to 12,000. These devices may have that potential. We have seen far greater improvements than that in aviation.
Willis| 4.25.12 @ 7:47AM
There is no comparison between aviation and motoring. If you think the roads are unsafe, stay off them you wuss, and leave the rest of us alone.
Mike 3/505| 4.25.12 @ 9:31AM
"but potential is not a guarantee of abuse."
That was humor right? I recognize it as such.
Mike Hawk| 4.25.12 @ 11:04AM
Most fatalities on the highway are due to A-holes who should not be driving. Incompetence, drunk illegals, drugged out dinga lings, wretchedly excessive speed (especially too fast for conditions) and morons who run red lights/ stop signs or drive clapped out piles of junk etc. Black boxes aren't going to fix any of that.
The Big E| 4.25.12 @ 12:08PM
"potential is not a guarantee of abuse"
Don't delude yourself. The one potential in life which will always be fully realized is the potential for abuse of power.
TrueBlue | 4.25.12 @ 12:51PM
The more power you give to a person, or group of persons, the more likely they are to be corrupted by that power. Potential for abuse should be treated as an expectation of abuse, because people in power WILL abuse it.
As for the comparison between planes and cars... most car accidents are not because of mechanical failure, they are caused by distracted driving, drunk driving, driving while drugged up, or just plain reckless driving (to include excessive speeding and weaving all over the road, cutting people off), these things may get recorded, but we ALREADY know that those are the causes, so the box won't change anything.
These things will be used to track movements, govern engine speeds, and hand out tickets.
dipesto| 4.27.12 @ 1:31AM
Among things that cause bad driving I include driving while wearing flipflops; trying to control the pedals while trying to keep your ffps from sliding off your toes. Is BBruder going to have a way to see what is on my feet while driving? But it will all be For the Children.
c matt| 4.25.12 @ 4:35PM
but potential is not a guarantee of abuse
What country have you been living in for the past 30 years?
BackToBasics| 4.26.12 @ 2:08AM
The difference between a commercial airplane and a car is anonymity. you have it in a plane, it is reduced to a family for the most part with a car.
Bobloblaw| 4.25.12 @ 8:47AM
Former Stasi members look on in envy at the US govt.
The Govt will know if you went to a political rally and how long you stayed.
bluecollarbytes| 4.27.12 @ 8:59AM
It is about control first, as every other govt intrusion in our lives is.
Some intrusion is good, but govt growth of its intrusion is on autopilot, as it pushes into new areas- on its own, free of accountability, really.
Theoretically the govt is accountable through our elected representation. The working reality is that govt is not accountable to anyone but itself.
roger lennert| 4.25.12 @ 7:40AM
Mr. Ross: Flying airplanes and driving cars is apples and oranges. I'm afraid you might be the one wearing the tin foil hat, sir.
L. Ross| 4.25.12 @ 7:49AM
Roger:
I doubt that you have flown an airplane, so I doubt you can easily understand the similarities, but they are manifold. The single greatest similarity is simply the man/machine interface. What that is improved, safety is improved. It really is that simple.
Bobloblaw| 4.25.12 @ 8:48AM
Ross:
I dont want my safety improved at the heavy hand of GOVERNMENT if it means loss of freedom.
scotchieguy| 4.25.12 @ 9:40AM
In the name of "safety," why not have random checks for sobriety...or maybe just to see if you don't have a bomb in your trunk. Those who are willing to give up a little freedom for security deserve neither.
Mike Hawk| 4.25.12 @ 11:05AM
Already done.
TrueBlue | 4.25.12 @ 12:53PM
Seriously, "random" sobriety checkpoints on the highway are the biggest waste of public funds by police departments. They could try actually enforcing traffic laws on all those other morons speeding, cutting people off, illegally turning, etc. But no, instead they use a huge portion of the highway cops to put up drunk checkpoints that people just drive around instead...
Occam's Tool| 4.30.12 @ 5:53PM
Scotchie: we already have random checks for sobriety at holiday times. Go overseas, to New Zealand, and it was done all the time.
The 1960s were a hell of a lot better in a lot of ways.
George S| 4.25.12 @ 12:50PM
There are no similarities with regard to intention. Since you are a pilot, I am sure you have been instructed to "line up and wait (position and hold)". This arose from the horrific crash in Tenerife when the KLM crew thought they had takeoff clearance. The thought was articulated and recorded on the black box thereby enabling the world to hear the mistake and take measures from repeating it. I am sure you have heard on final approach clearance to "maintain (altitude) till established". That arose when a VOR approach clearance was issued 20 miles away and the crew debated whether they can begin descent upon given the clearance or wait until they were over the navaid per published charts. They opted to start the decent immediately, and flew right into terrain.
Yes, safety of future flights is the reason of the CVR. But how does this apply to cars? What human errors are made in cars that we cannot deduce? Take away alcohol and drugs and the death toll will drop. Or, take a page from the FAA and have annual currency requirements and training for senior citizens or for anyone who wants to transition from a sedan to an SUV. How about issuing medical certificates for drivers?
Safety can be accomplished in many ways but placing tracking devices in cars is not one of them. Unless, of course, you can come up with a car crash scenario that is a complete mystery that keeps repeating itself over and over. Just ask any state trooper: have you ever closed an accident investigation with "cause unknown"?
Tyranny arises when government controls the populace with the excuse that it will protect us from the statistically improbable. That's why the TSA radiates, strips and sexually assaults us at airports; why they are so anxious to take away our private property to stop the earth from warming. Aircraft black boxes encourage us to fly -- that is the crucial difference.
Frank Drackman| 4.25.12 @ 2:24PM
18 hrs in T-34C's 128 take offs and landings and.......................
0.5 hrs "Pilot in Command" time in an FA-18D.
BUNO 164886 if you must know. And OK, it was FL240, out over the Atlantic, so I wouldn't crash into anything...
Frank
L. Ross| 4.25.12 @ 3:10PM
Cool.
Curtis Rasmussen| 4.25.12 @ 3:31PM
And Mr. Ross, how many people have died because CAFE fuel standards mandate increased fuel efficiency that can only be achieved through the removal of car mass, leading to less material protection around the occupants? Although the per capita accident death toll may have dropped, watch accidents become less survivable in the coming years.
The bottom line is the FED is looking for revenue streams and ways to control our behavior.
ObamaCare is my prime example of highly intrusive control of my personal life and choices. Don't drink. Don't smoke. Keep your weight in check. Eat properly. Toe to the line or you'll pay thru the nose. Toe to the line or they'll let you die without hope of treatment.
Greg Colvin| 4.27.12 @ 8:00PM
Curtis, it's long been the case that without insurance (or more money than most people can ever hope to save) you can, and often will, be left to die without hope of treatment. And guess what? It's also long been the case that with certain preexisting conditions you cannot get private insurance, and it's more and more the case that employers do not provide insurance. And even if you have insurance you are at the mercy of their judgement of what drugs and treatments they will pay for. So it's not like most people have much control.
And "toe the line"? I didn't drink, didn't smoke, ate healthy, weighed little, and walked a lot. Nonetheless, in 2009 was I diagnosed with epilepsy, stroke, and more -- cost Blue Cross $50,000, cost me $10,000. Obamacare says the insurers have to cover everyone, and that people have to be insured. So the intent is to be sure that people do not die without hope of treatment.
And why the individual mandate? (A Heritage Foundation idea, by the way.) To keep people like you from waiting until they get really sick to show up at an ER and cost the rest of us a lot of money. Poor? The mandate is on a sliding scale.
Also, vehicle mass is only a part of vehicle safety -- good engineering makes a bigger difference: crumple zones, airbags, good suspension, ABS... And efficiency matters more and more as fuel prices rise.
TexasMom2012| 4.29.12 @ 3:51PM
The problem is that the Feds wanted us to all suffer the exact same coverage. Hubby and I have high deductible insurance. It is cheaper by far and the resulting savings go into our Health Savings account which has better interest than a regular account, is tax deductible and is accumulating every year since we rarely if ever meet our deductible... It is the best option for us but Obamacare will take our option away from us... We need this option to also save medical expenses for our autistic son to have available when we are no longer here as his safety net. If we do lose this, the burden will fall on his brother. Democrats are truly the J@ck@ss party!
TexasMom2012| 4.29.12 @ 3:52PM
Looks like we will have to buy that Model A we have been looking to buy...
JP| 4.25.12 @ 8:42AM
And Semi-Truck have black boxes, not to mention devices that record down-time per federal rules. Commerical aircraft and commerical trucking are, well commerical activites. There is an obvious public safety issue with both.
But, with the new black box laws, we're talking about private property. Public safety can be a catch-all (the French Revolution produced the notorious Commission for Public Safety). And knowing the trends of crony capitalism in recent decades, the black-boxes are intended not only to raise extra revenue for the public purse and insurance agencies, it is also intended as a run-aroound the constitutional protection against self-incrimination.
The Administrative State, in the end trumps the Constitution. For, you cannot have both.
Moe Blotz| 4.25.12 @ 5:50PM
Not all truck tractors have the EDR, only Fruitliner does. Right now the FMCSA wants to mandate the Electronic On Board Recorder to monitor me whilst I navigate the nation's highways. Appeals court squashed it for now, but those nasty Feds are going to try it again.
Jobe| 4.25.12 @ 9:08AM
To me, sir, you sound like a liberal. What has "the black box" to do with safety in automobiles? Will it stop a speeding auto, will it turn an auto away from a hazard? Your apathy about this loss of another freedom, the 4th ammendment freedom from unreasonable search and siezure strikes me as somewhat cavalier. Your argument is specious at best, and dangerous at worst.
old white guy| 4.25.12 @ 9:11AM
you ever get a ticket for flying too fast? you sir have the tin foil hat. i am old enough to have seen the so called thin edge of the wedge beome the blunt end of reality.
old white guy| 4.25.12 @ 9:11AM
become
Keith| 4.25.12 @ 1:38PM
While most accidents involving planes require the information a "black box" provides for investigators, car accidents are reconstructed every day without the need for a black box.
Bob S| 4.25.12 @ 2:39PM
They are different domains. You are intruding on individual privacy when you mandate that all cars have black box technology, technology that not only records but transmits your driving information and location. This just invites abuse, perhaps as serious as that imagined by Eric Peters. Dismissing these concerns as the ramblings of "a guy wearing a tin foil hat" serves no useful purpose. It's to either placate your own fears that such technology will be abused, or because you want to deliberately mislead and divide opposition to this technology.
TexasMom2012| 4.29.12 @ 3:56PM
And it is clearly a violation of the 4th amendment, it is NOT reasonable for the Feds to collect information on all Americans movements via theirPrivate Vehicles... Wouldn't think this could get by the current SCOTUSbut maybe if Obama has a secon (God forbid) term.... Gag
c matt| 4.25.12 @ 4:31PM
We learned about microbursts from those black boxes, about cockpit distractions, about bad leadership styles
So are you saying these boxes on the cars will record in-vehicle conversations, and perhaps have some visual recording as well?
Avena Sadhvi| 4.26.12 @ 7:04AM
I read that the 9/11 black boxes were never found. I wonder why?
TexasMom2012| 4.29.12 @ 3:58PM
Seriously? Millions of pounds of rubble? Conspiracy nut?
liz| 4.27.12 @ 8:34AM
Airplanes & cars are a world apart my man..
Millions more cars are on Millons of highways every day ! the #s alone support more accidents.
Also no ONE person is being tracked in airplanes.. JUST the plane & pilot error.
AND more cars are having MORE serious /death by accidents b/c the blessed Gov has ordered lighter weight cars w/ more plastic ( Fuel Econ) = less protection !
Feather weights against MY Pick up.. FW's Loose.. FW's against a semi.. FW'S loose..
TexasMom2012| 4.29.12 @ 4:07PM
Yes, exactly why we have two Chevy trucks my oys drive, a large SUV for me and an old Jeep that hubby is driving to save up money for ANOTHER truck. It is all about defense... My boys will have a better chance at survival in those trucks if they are in an accident. Gas is a killer but worth my piece of mind! Especially since I stay home (raising a guide dog puppy) hubby works closer than our high school, oldest son's community college even closer and youngest rides bus to school... We would drive big vehicles anyway!
Public Citizzen| 4.27.12 @ 4:45PM
This is a "Red Herring" argument.
The licensing requirements for pilots are stringent and closely monitored.
The same statement doesn't hold true for drivers licenses. Almost any person that can demonstrate a minimal ability to operate the controls of a vehicle is given a license. There is no testing for skill level in the operation of those controls and no logging of the number of hours driven or the types of vehicles those miles are logged in. The exception being commercial drivers who are held to a higher standard and required to log, not just their driving hours but all hours of work.
Tracking devices will do nothing to lower the accident rate unless there is an increase in the minimum standards for obtaining and maintaining a license, something that isn't even part of the discussion.
TexasMom2012| 4.29.12 @ 4:12PM
Like I told my sons at sixteen, look around your classes, notice how many idiots and silly kids are in those classes? Guess what? Not only will all of them get drivers license? Every class that came before you has their idiots on the road. That is why I tell them to watch out for those people. They both were rather astonished to think about driving in that context... No tickets or accidents between them.
thoams burke| 4.29.12 @ 9:48PM
Mr ross.. my father and i are pilots also. the major differance here is who owns the car. I do. not the GOV'T;just like I own my small 172. this is nothing more then gov't creeping into our daily lives in the name of saftey. AIRCRAFT can and have done major damage. that is a fact . cars do very little. to place a device in my car that i own that i can't control and have it tie it to a GSP . NO thanks. reguardless of how you want to frame the argument in the name of safety; this data will be use in ways it was never intended. both private and public.
also. this argument will be in the SCOTUS some day and it will be struck down.
John Daniel| 4.25.12 @ 7:03AM
"Those who would give up Liberty to purchase Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin, 1755.
PolishKnight| 4.25.12 @ 10:31AM
Another driving article raging against government control (spectator seems to have a lot of them. Perhaps it's due to the middle aged white male demographic conservative voter? :-)
When you welcomed Eisenhower using big brother federal government to build an interstate highway system and corporations partnering with big government to force the average people into cars, you essentially gave up freedom several decades ago. At one time, the same objections were made against seat belt laws, drunk driving laws, and safety inspections. And many of those complaints are valid.
But the fact of the matter is that most drivers are not committed motorheads but rather commuters and others forced by economic circumstances into daily driving. The state occasionally tries to "enhance revenue" via speed cameras and the like and then backs off, sometimes, when too many of the ordinary populace gets caught in the net and objects. Unless you're an anarchist, the state has a right to enforce the laws of the road although sometimes these laws are written poorly. But still, the laws are there for a reason.
I bike to work and use public transportation wherever possible and the reason I'd love move to Europe (especially Eastern Europe) has less to do with statism but rather it's nice to be among other Europeans who use public transportation politely and cities that aren't office parks and strip malls. Running away from liberalism via white flight to the suburbs isn't defending liberty, it's cowardice. If you don't like the traffic laws, then lobby effectively to get them changed. As I seem to recall, it was the Republicans and Elizabeth Dole that used the interstate traffic laws to force states to raise drinking ages to 21 (before enacting Islamic style DUI percentages effectively making a few drinks into "drunk driving") and forcing people to buckle up. Yes?
TrueBlue | 4.25.12 @ 1:00PM
Difference is we can see the point of the interstate highway system, it assists with interstate commerce. Not seeing how corporations "forced the average people into cars," since people bought cars so they could go further from home. Without cars we'd all be force to use the horribly run and fiscally wasteful public transportation.
As for who was responsible for what traffic laws, who cares WHAT "side" they were on? Most people on this site are willing to admit that ALL of the big government politicians are bad, regardless of what party they belong to.
PolishKnight| 4.25.12 @ 3:19PM
I pointed out several times that corporations forced people into cars via lobbying the government to kill effective public transportation options. And in a way, roads, both interstate and local/state, are "public transportation" in that they are taxpayer funded and regulated by the state hence putting the black boxes into cars.
Public transportation (busses, trains, and trams) need not be horribly run and fiscally wasteful but is that way in the states due to general government waste: diversity contracts, corruption (How many of Ted Kennedy's friends got kickbacks on the Big Dig?), and legal issues trying to get right of ways for rail. In addition, and this is unPC, the ethnic diversity and low manners of US public transportation riders makes public transportation unpleasant in the USA. I rarely saw bad behavior on busses overseas that I saw daily in the USA.
The problem with saying the government is bad, blah blah blah, and big government especially is:
1) Big government built those wonderful "interstate" roads. Praise big government Tovarisch!
2) We need big government for any "public" transportation and we're not anarchists so simply saying it's bad and going Ron Paul isn't addressing the issue and is basically handing the ball over to the left.
Public Citizzen| 4.27.12 @ 4:56PM
The part that you are ignoring in your touting of the European Public Transit Systems is the huge government subsidies that they ALL are dependent on. Where do those subsidies come from? Higher taxes on everybody.
Research the history of public transportation in the United States and you will find that the majority of the Interurban Systems were started as private enterprises. They were successful and profitable until publicly financed paved roads made it possible for intercity automobile transit in time frames comparable to what was possible on the Interurban Systems.
Without the public subsidy given to highway transportation and the additional burden of taxes on real estate and physical plant paid by the private companies the systems deteriorated to the point of collapse.
Many of the publicly funded transit systems use right of way and traffic patterns that were first established before 1900 by private enterprise.
TexasMom2012| 4.29.12 @ 4:21PM
It is not practical here in the Houston metro area. Can't build subways and the system we haveis barely riden... Gas will have to go a lot higher better we become cattle herded on buses. Big business here would more likely head to suburbs like Fluor Daniel did in the 80s... Closer to nice homes, minimal commute and close enough to have all the culture of Houston without crime. And now all the Medical center hospitals have opened branches here as well as most of the best restaurants. Etc.
Appleby| 4.25.12 @ 8:58PM
The Interstate Highway System was instituted to evacuate big cities in case of nuclear attack. Of course, they were designed for a time when there were far fewer cars and as Katrina showed us, would in fact become instant parking lots in case of any real emergency; but their ultimate utility for people who really wanted to get from Nashville to Memphis without going through Sweetwater Junction was worth the cost. Or -- as the movie "Cars" asked, was it?
P.S. I use public transit in EuroKanukistan and frequently have to wait for five trains jammed to the doors with people who treat every one of them like the last lifeboat off the Titanic pushing, elbowing, kicking, struggling and jamming themselves into an already full boxcar before one comes along that I can get aboard. People who bike downtown are learning to buy $40 bikes on Kajiji and lock them with forged steel U-Locks if they want something to ride home that night. Your $1,000 EuroBike will be gone before you get on the elevator to go up to the 35th floor to start the day.
PolishKnight| 4.26.12 @ 9:07AM
I found it so strange I took a picture of a bike rack in Switzerland, I think in Bern, that I took a picture of it. There was about 50 bikes there with most of them unlocked.
I don't recall ever having to miss a train because it was full other than when riding the metro in DC and that was during extreme rush hour or football games.
Leo| 4.26.12 @ 2:30PM
This is America. We are citizens, not subjects. If we won't to be civil and polite, fine, if not we're not forced to be. We have mobility and firepower so our government needs to fear us rather than the reverse.
Occam's Tool| 4.30.12 @ 5:55PM
I would prefer to avoid Europe as it is dying.
PJ| 4.25.12 @ 7:17AM
This will be absolutely horrible if this law is passed. Long stretches of absolute boring empty highway will make driving unbearable if I don't take my car at 75+ mph.
Also, sounds like the insurance companies will be another branch of the govn't.
TrueBlue | 4.25.12 @ 1:00PM
Make sure you contact your Congressmen, and get everyone you know to do the same.
Harry Nhadzack| 4.27.12 @ 12:25PM
what do you mean "will be"? Aren't we mandated by the govt to carry insurance?
They are already one of the same.
TexasMom2012| 4.29.12 @ 4:24PM
Car insurance mandates are state not federal. And the health individual mandate should go down with all of Obamacare.
Benjamin| 4.25.12 @ 7:23AM
The next step would be for car companies to stop selling vehicles and instead license them like software. Like software, you vehicle will be licensed to the individuals who signed for it. Forget loaning your car to the kids or a neighbor.
c matt| 4.25.12 @ 4:44PM
Basically what automoblie leases are.
Nelson H.| 4.25.12 @ 7:26AM
If this article were read by every American this law could never pass. The women would be split on it, but the men would be enraged.
PolishKnight| 4.25.12 @ 10:37AM
That's what you get for allowing women to vote.
It amazes me, really, that chivalrous men who accept as a matter of fact that most heterosexual women still require breadwinners to take care of them and are on the same level as children when it comes to lifeboat access should also be allowed to vote. When these men regard themselves as disposable and second class citizens, why shouldn't the state and women regard you as mere taxpaying chumps to just work and shut up? Now jump into the ocean and die and don't forget to pay your taxes first! Be chivalrous and lick her boots because you're a GENTLEMAN!!!
z80kid| 4.25.12 @ 2:42PM
Well said. Thank you.
gene| 4.25.12 @ 7:45AM
How much you want to wager that if you make enough money, you can pay the max on insurance and get a "waiver" on all this? Also waivers for Politicians who never follow their own laws?
cuban pete| 4.25.12 @ 11:49AM
Corzine had his waiver a few years ago when his SUV was in an accident traveling far above the speed limit and he was not wearing a seat belt.
These laws apply only to the great unwashed.
Indy| 4.25.12 @ 8:07AM
"already passed by the Senate and likely to be passed by the House"
Thank you for this piece, I encourage others to read it, pass it along and call / write your Rep. We need to put pressure on Boehner, where are the GOP Freshman? I have called my Rep and will call again.
In addition to what the author has pointed out, I think this is going to be used as a basis for a mileage tax. Many of us worked so hard in the 2010 elections to stop the madness but since that time, more freedoms have been lost (NDAA, drones approved for flying in the US, Secret Service can now shut down protests and arrest people against our First Amendment Rights) and who has control of the House?
JP| 4.25.12 @ 8:46AM
I wondered the same thing when I read about this law last week. The Senate has failed to do its most basic duty (pass a budget). The last time the Senate passed a budget, Bush was President. Yet, the Senate and House have plenty of time to concoct these kinds of laws. Funny, but Congress, as we speak, is revisiting control of the internet. Our nation is quickly approaching the default abyss. But, our lawmakers remain obsessed with crafting laws that circumvent our rights, not to mention spending more money.
Unger| 4.27.12 @ 4:31AM
Indy and JP, I am glad that there are good guys like you two around.
What you state and ask above in your simple, straightforward six sentences, JP, ought to be read by every American over the age of 13.
Stewed_tomatoes| 4.25.12 @ 8:13AM
A good many folks are going to be stunned when they finally realize that the cage door has been slammed shut behind them. Every day the ruling class builds more of our gilded prison.
Harry the Horrible| 4.25.12 @ 8:18AM
This is about taxation and control.
Once the government knows where you are driving and how far, they will know how much you "should" pay.
JP| 4.25.12 @ 8:49AM
A California lawmaker thought of a new way to raise additional revenue. Instead of levying a tax on purchased gas, the government would tax you by the amount you drive. These black boxes are just what the doctor ordered. What Congress really is shooting for is a general carbon tax based upon total energy used (don't think those new digitial electric meters were designed to increase efficiency). With the black box the Progressive dream of a "managed society" is one giant step in the right direction.
Louis Jenkins| 4.25.12 @ 2:55PM
Oh, but the gas tax will remain. So will all of the other fees and taxes associated with operating an automobile.
Leo| 4.26.12 @ 2:32PM
Nothing more permanent than a temporary tax.
Von Mises Jr| 4.25.12 @ 9:48AM
It is more than that Harry. It is the implementation of Mao-style communism. Our friends went to China years ago and realized that the Chinese could not leave their Province without their papers. If you could not travel, then the government knew where to FIND YOU. If you committed any crime, real or perceived, your neighbors knew who you were and the government knew where to FIND YOU. If you try to flee, the Chinese version of the Nazi's would be waiting looking for "Your Papers, Please" so they would FIND YOU.
Thank you Mr. Peters for mentioning Agenda21. It makes Serfdom and slavery look like a walk in the park. If you want to understand the real intent, watch YouTube Agenda21 "for dummies."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzEEgtOFFlM
Good day, Comrade.
Mark MacInnis| 4.25.12 @ 8:19AM
Why do I have a feeling that pre-2014 models in good running condition will hold a value beyond their normal utility in the market?
Why do I get the feeling that there will be a black market for the high-tech kind of people who will find a way to disable these gadgets?
Freedom, and the market, always find a way.....
Joe| 4.25.12 @ 9:33AM
I would hope that insurance companies would also see the opportunity to offer "monitor-free" policies.
Ugh| 4.27.12 @ 4:36AM
Joe, you are already paying insurance companies an arm and a leg. And now you want to offer them more of your money to "not" do something for you? Offer them more money to not do something that they shouldn't be attempting, installing, or doing in the first place?
diogenes| 4.25.12 @ 8:36AM
If the government intends to make owners of pre-2015 cars retrofit this trechnology, it will provide the technology gratis, as it did with cable TV boxes. As to insurance premiums, people who routinely exceed the speed limit or engage in unsafe driving should expect to pay higher insurance premiums. so that is not much of an issue to me.
I understand and am concerned about the "big brother" aspect of such technology in automobiles, but I would note that the government already can restrict the radius of your travels by freezing your gasoline credit card or any other credit card or your bank account.
Such technology is not likely to be used to "monitor" the average guy, because that would require somebody to do the monitoring. It is quite possible to computerize the management of individual vehicles, and to restrict their power output and speed remotely. This has been done for some time by at least one major trucking company--Werner--, which prevents drivers from exceeding "hours of service" laws by shutting Werner's trucks down after a specified number of hours of engine operation.
Next, there will be electronic locks on the doors to all buildings, so that access can be blocked remotely by the press of a button. So, in one fell swoop, the government will be able to freeze our access to cash or credit or food and fuel, turn our cars into immobile masses of metal, and lock us out of any shelter.
The ultimate utility of such technology, for the conspiracy minded, is that it will greatly facilitate imposition of martial law.
JP| 4.25.12 @ 8:53AM
The Progressives thought this through. Every driver (or car) would be assigned a unique ID. Via GPS and wirless technology, the federal government will be able to draw information about your driving habits as well as how much you drive. This data would be stored in multi-dimensional databases. The IRS, for one, would use this data to levy new taxes. And they can automatically deduct these taxes from your paycheck. Keep in mind, that paper checks are fast becoming a thing of the past.
randyinrocklin| 4.26.12 @ 2:44PM
so who is it that determines speed limit? the autobahn does not have any speed limits in certain areas. is it 55 mph? is it 65 mph? is it 75mph? ist it 85 mph? you can drive safely at 85 mph under perfect conditions and if people would observe lane courtesy and yeild to faster traffic in the left lane.
Bobloblaw| 4.25.12 @ 8:44AM
It is amazing the loss of liberties that have taken place in the USA since 2001. The Ruling Class, having gotten a taste of control after 9-11 doesnt want to relinquish but to expand their power over the masses.
USA is now heading towards being a complete police state. DHS, TSA, Patriot Act etc. Run by the Ruling Class for the benefit of the Ruling Class (notice Im not blaming the right or the left here ) so they can continue to plunder the middle class without fear of reprisal.
Stewed_tomatoes| 4.25.12 @ 9:08AM
And when the middle class is gone, they'll have their serfs. The noose is tightening.
PolishKnight| 4.25.12 @ 11:18AM
I'll stir up more controversy here:
When all the conservatives were up in arms (literally) over 9-11 I thought to myself: What a bunch of whining chumps.
By obsessing over the tragedy, it made Bin Laden feel that much more important and made the USA look reactionary. Someone sneaks something in their shoe? Check EVERYONE's shoes! Someone then puts something in their underwear? Now we have to get groped. Because the 911 reactionaries insist upon making air travel as safe as possible no matter what the cost!
Instead, if we had just buried the dead, rebuilt the WTC, and moved on then the world would have seen that radical Islam couldn't stop the USA juggernaut and we'd have Brittany Spears CD's in every store in Iran and Iraq rather than Sharia law in Michigan.
grant1863| 4.25.12 @ 11:54AM
"moved on"???? How about crush our enemies?
PolishKnight| 4.25.12 @ 3:26PM
The problem with that, Grant1863, is that we simply don't have the resolve to fully go through with it unless we do what Ann Coulter suggested: Kill all of them (don't put them up in Guantanemo) and convert the rest to Christianity and impose Martial law on the rest. Instead, we're now leaving Afghanistan and Iraq little better than how we found it (although both countries now have functional "democracies" albeit ones that support radical Islam).
So what's the point?
Occam's Tool| 4.30.12 @ 6:00PM
Ummm, PK, I had a solution, if you recall---nuke Teheran to encourage the others. They bought and paid for it, anyway.
Remove our ridiculous and useless ACLU mandated security system, and install a modified Israeli model. Inform Saudi, etc, that any further terrorist attacks would be met with a death total a thousand fold returned. (1 Israeli soldier equals 1000 Palestinian terrorists in a swap---they set the number, not me.)
Leave the death toll up to them.
old white guy| 4.25.12 @ 9:15AM
this totally off topic but i must say it. i have been posting at the blase and today i could not log in unless i used one of the big six ie facebook etc. i don't like face book, google or others. when will all sites require posting through these outfits?
Cloudbuster | 4.25.12 @ 2:00PM
This has been an issue for me, as well. I follow Powerline regularly, but can never post there, because I don't have a Facebook account. Disqus also seems to be getting very popular, but I resist using Disqus because it requires you to disable a key browser security feature in order to work. Very frustrating.
TR Graham| 4.25.12 @ 9:37AM
I strongly agree with Mr. Peters. This is yet another means of revenue enhancement and monitoring in the guise of "safety". Unlike Mr. Ross, I have no desire to be a bureaucratically controlled drone.
Historian| 4.25.12 @ 10:18AM
In the 1940's the US State Department referred to
El Salvador as a "Well run Jail where everything not forbiden was prohibited." Guatamala had a motto,"power that is not abused is not power." If you look at the drafts for shorelines etc you'll see
that this is the direction we're heading. As Delmore Shwartz said "just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean their not out to get you"
Arch| 4.25.12 @ 10:22AM
Cell phones already track us unless we opt out of "Location services."
Mosserson| 4.25.12 @ 11:23AM
Thank you! This possible bill is *nothing* compared to the GPS location services built into cell phones, which we carry with us *everywhere we go.*
Yes, these car "black boxes" are a possible source of liberties being taken away, but this article is pretty eye-rolling and at a very basic level, un-informed.
Cloudbuster | 4.25.12 @ 2:02PM
At least you can, supposedly, disable locations services, power off your phone, or not take it with you if you wish complete privacy (Hurrah for pre-paid cells phones!).
But we won't have the option of having our cars not tracked unless we violate the law by finding ways to disable the devices.
Appleby| 4.25.12 @ 9:04PM
It's remarkably easy to subdue the Binkie Slingers -- just offer them a free "app" and tell them All The Cool Kids Already Have This -- and they will eagerly step into the cage and grab the candy bar!
As Khruschev observed, "We will not bury you. You will bury yourselves."
Indy| 4.25.12 @ 10:28AM
I called my rep again, please light up the phones, send emails, etc. I hope the readers who post comments here take action and not just post comments. This is an issue both the Left and Right should be aligned, protect our freedoms, ACLU? chirp, chirp....
The Bruce| 4.25.12 @ 4:04PM
I attempted to talk to one of mine, but got a staffer instead. He told me the standard canned BS about auto safety, yada, yada.
So I've decided, instead, to communicate with one of my reps by leaving a bag of burning dog excrement on his front lawn.
Attn: Senator McCain, that "thing" you found on your front lawn? That was all me, babe.
Indy| 4.25.12 @ 9:24PM
Thanks for calling, yes, we always get to talk to the staffer...sounds like you got a sheeple willing to sacrifice freedom for "safety". Perhaps you can remind them of the freedom we have given up for additional "safety" procedures performed by the TSA, ask the staffer at what point will they say enough? Some people just don't get it, they wait until they are told to completely undress before they realize their rights have been violated.
Pause| 4.27.12 @ 5:03AM
Indy, the problem is that the average representative's or senator's staffer in Washington, D.C. the ones that "interact" with us commoners/voters, the average one is under the age of 32, still single or, at most, just recently married (but still mostly behaving as a bachelor or bachelorette). They rent. They do not know and have not yet confronted massive taxes and property taxes. They've never done anything remotely entrepreneurial in their lives. These "staffers" are still in a college/masters degree on campus mentality mode. And they are shopping around their credentials to land a scholarship paid advanced degree program for something that will further enhance their academic pedigrees. They're not sure just what; it just has to sound really good.
These "staffers" have not yet confronted any real major health issues in their lives so the whole Obamacare and health insurance and hospital costs THING is way beyond their grasp.
Just like the perils of every call, text, email, and web surf off their smart phone being monitored and that the built-in GPS tracks them even when the phone is turned off. All that is just, like, you know, I mean, c'mon, like, just out there, ya know?
In short, they are usually useless morons who, no matter if working for a R or D, have little real life experience to grasp how government screws us 24/7.
Many hope to again land a higher paying government job in D.C. or NOVA, so, this whole smaller government thing is like, you know, real counterproductive to their lives, you know?
Most are just also interested in a big booze blowout party on Saturday night.
At most, all they do when you call, it put down a tick mark on a tally sheet that has "Yes" and "No" columns on it.
You aren't important. Scoring Washington Nationals tickets to the game Strasburg will pitch is what is on their minds. Or screwing the office college interns.
Comprehending the Dept. of Agriculture's new mandates on farmers and children on farms.....like, too weird, man, you know? Hurst my head to think about it, so, you know, I don't.
nathan| 4.25.12 @ 11:00AM
Please note, all of you, this bill is going to pass the House. Who controls the house, the horrible evil liberal democrats? NO. The freedom loving republicans under the control of Speaker Boehner.
Just as we saw earlier this year with the Fifth Amendment destroying language in the NDAA, Boehner who should be telling the Senate that bills like this will not pass under any circumstances is instead letting them reach the floor, get passed and signed into law.
Do we have a problem? Sure we do. We have a problem with so called republicans like Boehner and others in the House who refuse to do their jobs and honor their oaths of office. Complain about the democrats all you want but the real problem right now is the House republicans and more to the point the Speaker.
The Big E| 4.25.12 @ 12:15PM
Amen. The House Republicans like to claim they're for smaller government and greter liberty, but their actions consistently prove that is simply not the case. They have become merely the Republican wing of the Democrat Party. In the end, they always wind choosing the door ehind which lies greater governmental power.
BlitheBunny| 4.25.12 @ 5:16PM
Which is why we need to vote these guys out of office and get in new people. If we can show these guys that We the People will not stand for legislation like that, and we CAN and WILL FIRE THEM, they might take a second and/or third look at what they are doing if they want to stay in office. This is why I never vote for an incumbent.
Petronius| 4.25.12 @ 11:51AM
This country will soon be the ant hill because freedom to the herd means a passive life style with no responsibility. I railed constantly by the damage we suffer due to the behavior of predators, perverts, and parasites. But the worse than them are the idiots who welcome control so they can devote all their time and attention to their amusements.
George S| 4.25.12 @ 1:20PM
Why not put a microchip in out throats to determine what foods we eat that may be unhealthy, thus identifying those unfairly burdening the People's health care? Yes, it could also be used to hear our utterances in private, but isn't that a great way to stop terrorist conspirators? Why, it's win win. Think of all the lives saved -- more than any aircraft black box could ever accomplish.
This is not paranoia, being free to go wherever you wish without anyone knowing about it -- or clearing it beforehand -- is the foundation of freedom. The only place you cannot do that is prison.
jstwndring| 4.25.12 @ 1:29PM
It's time for a third party. Actually, it's well past time. The Tea Party needs to make it official and dump support for the Republican Party and start its own. We need an actual small government party. Not one that merely pays lip service to the idea. Every time I think that I can support the Republicans again, a story like this one comes out reminding me that both political parties are my enemy. This is absolutely outrageous, and the Republicans are putting their full support behind it. Fuck the Republican Party. Same goes for the Democrats, of course.
Henry Ford would be angered| 4.27.12 @ 5:17AM
jstwndring, you and Nathan are right. I stopped donating any time or money to the GOP three years ago after the 2008 debacle (due to GOP idiots).
Where were any of our GOP U.S. Senators on Fox with Hannity or Gretta beating down the door to inform us all of this BEFORE the U.S. Senate vote? Senator Kyl? Senator Hatch? Senator DeMint? Forget Senator Timid Mitchell from KY (although he is supposed to be the LEADER).
Where even was KY Sen. Rand Paul? Senator "I luv being on TV 24/7" Rubio? Did anyone hear either one speak out against this? What? Does Big Auto now have him in their back pocket?
Any one of these Republican U.S. Senators could have contacted Rush Limbaugh's outfit to arrange an on-air phone interview with Rush on just this. Reach the max listening audience and then do later in the day Hannity on radio and then Lars Larsen.
Did they?
They really treat us like dirt, don't they?
jstwndring| 4.27.12 @ 6:56PM
Exactly. When I first started reading this article, I thought, "Well, this is what Democrats do. When Republicans get control, then we can.........wait, what the..? Oh, perfect! As usual, Republicans support it." As someone else pointed out in another post regarding another article, we can choose death by firing squad, or, by hanging. Either way, we die.
Having said all that, I know Obama has to go, but, what exactly will we be winning with the Republicans in control? A little more time? Fine, but, we should use that time to start a third party and oust the Republicans. Everyone here knows we have to. The Republicans will always sell us out when they think we aren't watching.
Occam's Tool| 4.30.12 @ 6:01PM
Hmmm, I thought Rand Paul was supposed to be this principled Libertarian....
naw. Just another POS.
oldfart| 4.25.12 @ 1:59PM
Another brick is the Department of Labor rules about so-called child labor on family farms. It seems that, unless children (age group undefined) may not work for anyone other than their parents. Not Grandparents - only parents. This includes cutting the grass with a gas mower (OK for kids in the city or suburbs) or even using an electric screw driver.
Goal - drive what is left of the family farmers out of business.
Guess who gets the windfall - big corporations that are contribute massive amounts of money to democraps.
The Bruce| 4.25.12 @ 3:05PM
Huh??
Is there a third page to the story that I missed? Because I thought we were talking about tracking devices in vehicles.
It is all linked| 4.27.12 @ 5:21AM
The Bruce, it is all the same thing: Total government control. Wait til you find out that this inside your car monitoring ALSO will be able to inform the Feds if you are or are not using ALL the mandated (and very expensive) child car seat safety devices.
More automatic (don't blink cuz the money is GONE!) IRS deductions from your bank account electronically when you fail to buckle ALL your 6, 7 and 8 year olds in.
Frank Drackman| 4.25.12 @ 2:20PM
Jeez, if they had those black boxes in 1998 when I outran the cops on my 750 GSXR at 165 mph on the I-95....
actually, it would have been really cool, cold hard proof to back up my story...
Frank
Brian72| 4.25.12 @ 3:52PM
You would never have gotten to 165mph because your engine management computer would have been instructed to shut off the fuel pump and the ignition remotely and that would have been that.
Off to jail.
jstwndring| 4.27.12 @ 7:03PM
Right on! My friends used to get chased on purpose. They thought it was fun. One of them claimed 38 chases until he was caught. Haha. He had the same ride as you--a JIXER 750. It was funny watching Vette owners think that they could keep up. Ah, the good old days.
Brian72| 4.25.12 @ 3:48PM
The government could not only assemble a file on you about where you have been, how fast you got there and how long you stayed, you can be monitored in real time.
I can see how law enforcement could more quickly find a dangerous fugitive, but that requires a judge to sign a warrant allowing the violation of that person's 4th amendment rights upon probable cause being presented by law enforcement in a criminal investigation.
The potential for constant passive monitoring and logging of every car all the time seems to me to be a violation of the 4th amendment, which must be done on an individual basis by a judge, not en masse for the whole population.
What about the 5th amendment, the right to refuse to incriminate yourself?
Increasingly, if I were to be spending $20-50,000 on a vehicle, I would prefer to build a classic car or truck (maybe both) with new aftermarket components rather than buy a new car. The "shadetree mechanic" culture in America is very deeply embedded, and it would take a very large effort for a long time to penetrate with the new requirements.
Just look at the SEMA show in Las Vegas every year.
A parts company named Year One can provide you with all new chassis, subframes, body sheet metal, all the trim, interior parts and engines/running gear so that you can build your own brand new custom '69 Camaro. It can be faithfully original, or you can drop modern Corvette drive train, suspension and brakes into that classic body and have a car that is the best of both worlds.
For the price of a nice new car, you could build your own exactly how you want it.
How about a '78 Trans Am with a Chevy LS7 427 V-8, six speed manual that will run with the new cars in performance?
Sounds a lot more fun, and American than a bland econobox hybrid that reports your every move to some outside entity. How would the Bandit and Snowman get all that Coors from Texarkana to Atlanta if Sherriff Beauford T. Justice could just call the DoT in DC and shut down the TA's engine remotely? East bound and down, loaded up and truckin, we gonna do what they say can't be done! Oh, no we are not because my car has been disabled via satellite. Damn.
I am sure taxes, penalties, fines and regulations will be devised to prevent what I described for almost everyone, except those who can afford to buy their way onto a special exemption list.
For the children, of course.
strollerfreak| 4.25.12 @ 4:21PM
For the WIN!!!
Dmitry Aleksandrovich| 4.25.12 @ 3:56PM
To hell with that. I'm not putting one on my current cars and if I buy a new card with one I'm going to take it off. This is America god dammit. I'm not buying into this government will protect you from everything BS.
Occam's Tool| 4.30.12 @ 6:03PM
Well, they may shoot you...of course, you being Russian you will be used to being shot, and with you it may elevate your IQ Dmitry....
Dave Williams| 4.25.12 @ 3:57PM
The government will pry control of my steering wheel out of the cold, dead fingers of one of my hands, after they've pried the 12-gauge shotgun from the fingers of the other...
BlitheBunny| 4.25.12 @ 5:11PM
If we keep giving the government control over the small aspects of our day to day living there will be nothing stopping them once they decide to severely intrude in our lives. From what I see we are getting close to that point, and I'm not looking forward to what they have planned for this nation.
FiddlerBob| 4.25.12 @ 5:24PM
Why don't we start by attaching a publicly accessible tracking and recording device to every one of our Representatives, Senators, and Judges so WE THE PEOPLE can make sure they (our servants) are safe and sound and staying out of mischief 24/7?
Brian72| 4.25.12 @ 5:30PM
We the People are far too infantile and incompetent to possibly understand what hard work and sacrifice our Ivy League leadership class endures on our behalf. We simply do not understand what policies are going to benefit us and why. It is why we must surrender individual freedom to legislate all risk and uncertainty out of our lives. For the children, of course.
Indy| 4.25.12 @ 9:28PM
Energy Secretary Chu "I don't own a car" I'm sure there are many like him.
I do like your idea, my Rep and Senators don't hold townhalls. Maybe with a tracking device, I can find one so I can have a chat, they refuse to meet with the commoners.
Brubaker| 4.25.12 @ 5:53PM
Eric, your paranoia is treatable. Seek help.
Brubaker| 4.25.12 @ 6:09PM
I am a fucking fascist who supports the surveillance state, and I need to kill myself now.
ErnieBanks| 4.25.12 @ 7:27PM
A good reason to buy a beautiful classic car instead, like a 1965 Mustang convertible, or a Jaguar XKE, or a 1950s Corvette, or a...
Brian72| 4.25.12 @ 8:22PM
1970 Chevelle SS, modern suspension, brakes, aftermarket cast aluminum alloy LSX454, 6 speed stick. Metallic blue, white stripes. Magnaflow 3in. dual exhaust. That smokes just about any new American car in my opinion.
Occam's Tool| 4.30.12 @ 6:04PM
Ernie: it can't, of course, be you, but you were, are, and will be, my favorite athlete/role model of all time....
Occam's Tool| 4.30.12 @ 6:05PM
I also had the incredible privilege of meeting Mr. Banks in 1969, when I was 7. The kindest, nicest man in the world to a small, scrawny boy....
POST American| 4.25.12 @ 11:44PM
---Of course, the ultimate 'agenda'
calls for eliminating private vehicles,
and even travel entirely.
'Agenda 21' ----CHECK IT OUT.
AGAIN, in this, the 11th hour of the
CFR---RED China hadover and takedown op,
TAKE HEED.
---------------------------TAKE HEED. . .
David| 4.26.12 @ 3:28AM
@'Viola. "Your" car is suddenly under the control of others.'
I am also a fan of these beautiful string instruments, but what do they have to do with the topic? Or did you mean the beautiful purple flower perhaps? Or, wait, wait, did you perhaps mean the interjection of French etymological origins, "voila"?
Kevin Frei| 4.26.12 @ 2:20PM
Far more important is the increasing Miles Per
Gallon requirements. This means less metal in the construction of vehicles. I have a serious question: Are the increases in MPG worth more serious injuries and deaths in auto crashes?
randyinrocklin| 4.26.12 @ 2:34PM
don't forget the drones that are being put in place by our "gubmint". they loiter for hours on end catching speeders from the air. way to go gubmint! we are losing our freedoms inch by inch, mile by mile.
Public Citizzen| 4.27.12 @ 4:35PM
I see a whole new and immensely entertaining hobby opening up. "Drone Stalking"
Radio Control Systems are inexpensive and readily available at your local hobby shop. That is what makes them so attractive to big brother, their low cost.
When they start to crash and burn from "aerial malfunction" then the program costs will start to skyrocket.
Combining the appropriate electronic package with either an electric or internal combustion powered model airplane will allow a radio controlled system to come up behind a drone and perform the same sort of maneuver that German Fighters used during WWII to chew up bombers without using their guns.
When the drones have to start packing extra rear and side observation and avoidance systems the weight goes up fast which means the loiter time goes down even faster.
Jesse| 4.28.12 @ 10:43AM
unfortunately it isn't inches anymore. it's miles at a time. We've let the government take control. now we need to stop.
Martin Owens| 4.26.12 @ 9:51PM
It's always darkest just before the dawn. Take heart, fellow Thought Criminals! Remember Wiki Leaks and Napster, and hackers of every description? Prohibition rumrunners, and their Cannabioid heirs making sure the stuff gets through, rain or shine? The Underground Railroad and the Committees of Correspondence? Nobody, but nobody is better than the American citizen, at outwitting and thwarting an overreaching officialdom. Ask the IRS: it's practically the national pastime.
The more ubiquitous the locator/recorder'control chips chips become, easier they will be to "spoof"- in fact it's already being done now.
Freedom is always available. Just remember there's always a price.
Public Citizzen| 4.27.12 @ 4:24PM
Any computerised system that can be hacked can have hacks installed to ignore or change the response to other commands.
The easiest way to defeat the system will be to just disable the antenna so that the vehicle will not respond to any wireless attempt at accessing the onboard electronics.
The more complex the system becomes the greater the number of ways to exploit it.
Jesse| 4.28.12 @ 10:39AM
Not only is this a way to put their hands in our pockets but it's also in part the car companies. If you decommission all the old cars then what happens? Ohh wait. You have to buy a new one. And if you modify them, well then you just have to pay a couple hundred bucks to the dealer! No big deal!
Scott| 4.30.12 @ 10:13PM
This is another attack on our freedom...WAKE UP...
Please name one Government program that has helped the people. Name one war that helped the people. Name one executive order that has helped the people.
Remember who really runs our country and how they use the media, lawyers, and policestate to keep their purses full.
In response to the number of U.S. boys killed during our "undeclared, unconstitutional and illegal" wars...let us not forget the innocent victims...