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The First Cuts Are the Deepest

By on 4.23.12 @ 6:10AM

Republicans are beginning to debate how, rather than whether, to reduce spending.

Perhaps it’s a mistake to measure the Tea Party’s success only in terms of primaries won or forced. A better indicator might be the movement’s impact on the GOP: have Tea Partiers finally gotten Republicans to debate how, rather than whether, to cut federal spending?

The Republican-controlled House has twice passed budgets introduced by Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan, who chairs the Budget Committee. Unless its tax reforms have a significantly greater supply-side effect than conventional static accounting assumes, the House plan doesn’t reach balance until roughly 2040 but it does produce reforms that tackle the long-term drivers of the country’s national debt.

Last week, Sen. Pat Toomey unveiled a proposal to balance the budget in eight years. Unlike Ryan, the Pennsylvania Republican didn’t come up with a plan for overhauling Medicare. But Toomey does knock most discretionary spending back to 2006 levels, freezing it there for seven years and indexing it to inflation thereafter.

The Republican Study Committee and the Senate Tea Party Caucus have also offered spending blueprints that try to balance the budget in just five years. The RSC budget, rejected by the full House, endorses Ryan’s Medicare plans but doesn’t count the savings — which don’t come until after workers under the age of 55 begin to retire — toward near-term deficit reduction. The Senate Tea Partiers, led by Kentucky Republican Rand Paul, have their own proposal for revamping Medicare.

While Toomey emphasizes that his approach complements the House budget — he has included the Ryan Medicare reforms, pointing out that their basic framework enjoys bipartisan support — Paul is more critical. “The problem with the Ryan budget is that he takes the hit on Medicare but doesn’t get the political upside of balancing the budget,” Paul says, citing estimates that the House would eliminate deficits 28 years from now. “You look at the life expectancy of most of Congress… I might not be here in 20 years, and I’m on the younger side.”

This is a replay of a debate that occurred last year. At a briefing of Senate Republicans, Paul reportedly told Ryan that the “Path to Prosperity” takes too long to balance the budget. Ryan countered that Paul’s own proposal made quick, dramatic cuts to discretionary spending but without entitlement reform the deficits would return with a vengance in the out years. Paul included a competing version of Medicare reform in his budget this year, which he argues will yield savings faster and be easier to explain to the American public.

Similarly, Texas Rep. Ron Paul, the senator’s father, has twice voted against the Ryan budget on the grounds that it doesn’t go far enough. In the budget plan he proposed as part of his 2012 presidential campaign, the elder Paul identified $1 trillion in specific spending cuts in just one year. Yet Ron Paul has also been zinged for “timidity” on entitlements.

“According to his campaign manager, Paul simply wants to have an ‘adult conversation’ about how to keep Medicare and Social Security working,” John McCormack wrote in the Weekly Standard. “An ‘adult conversation’ is exactly what Barack Obama has proposed instead of an actual plan.”

One conservative reading of the country’s fiscal problems is that the only way to build support for a plan that will prevent Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid from devouring the entire budget or driving the country deeper into debt is to implement reforms gradually. Otherwise, senior citizens — a key Republican constituency — will balk and nothing will ever pass Congress.

The contrary view is that gradual reforms have proven just as easy for Democrats to attack without producing tangible near-term results to show the voters. It is hard for Congress to abide by its own spending caps and budget plans, much less bind future Congresses. What makes a thirty-year plan any different?

At the heart of this debate lies a dilemma: when spending programs are cut, they tend to grow back. It is more enduring to eliminate them entirely. Abolishing the Commerce Department will produce less of a backlash than transforming Medicare, and might build credibility for future Republican cuts. But eliminating agencies and programs is exceptionally hard to do. It is rare for one party to have the votes. And as Obamacare has demonstrated, sweeping reforms are easier to undo if they are rammed through in a partisan manner.

In one sense, this is progress. As recently as George W. Bush’s presidency, Republicans were debating whether to cut spending rather than how to do so. The pro-spending Republicans won, with the result being the unfunded Medicare prescription drug benefit, No Child Left Behind, the $700 billion Wall Street bailout, and pork-laden farm, transportation, and energy bills. After Social Security reform fizzled out early in Bush’s second term, the GOP legacy of that period was making the entitlements problem worse rather than better.

The pro-spending Republicans are still there, carping off the record to reporters about Ryan and Paul’s budget cuts. Some of them hope to come out of hiding after the election. But for now, the debate among Tea Party-influenced fiscal conservatives is drowning them out.

About the Author

W. James Antle, III, author of the new book Devouring Freedom: Can Big Government Ever Be Stopped?, is editor of the Daily Caller News Foundation and a senior editor of The American Spectator. You can follow him on Twitter @jimantle.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (132) |

Jack in Wi.| 4.23.12 @ 7:29AM

Before one penny is cut from entitlements and food stamps for Americans, all these foreign wars, foreign bases, and foreign aid must be shut down and our troops bought home. We have wasted many trillions proping up kleptocrats all over the world. Israel, Europe, Japan and Korea, and the Arabs can pay for their own defenses not us American taaxpayers. After that is done and all the corporate welfare is cut from banksters and tarpsters, maybe then we can have a civil conversation on entitlements and foodstamps.

Gary B| 4.23.12 @ 8:04AM

I would add the elimination of the Departments of Education and Energy and GSA to this list.

Jack in Wi.| 4.23.12 @ 8:19AM

I agree. Get rid of all those useless Departments. I would add the TSA, Homeland Security, Transportation, Commerce and Labor among others. Transportation is the easiest to get rid of. All the states have their own depts.Just get rid of the federal taxes on energy and let the states collect them. We would get rid of a lot of dupication. The states can figure out their needs better, without a lot of federal mandates.

Clint| 4.23.12 @ 8:27AM

DR. RON PAUL'S “PLAN TO RESTORE AMERICA”

SPENDING:

Cuts $1 trillion in spending during the first year of Ron Paul’s presidency, eliminating five cabinet departments (Energy, HUD, Commerce, Interior, and Education), abolishing the Transportation Security Administration and returning responsibility for security to private property owners, abolishing corporate subsidies, stopping foreign aid, ending foreign wars, and returning most other spending to 2006 levels."

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the.....e-america/

Bill X| 4.23.12 @ 9:58AM

He would legalize drugs and allow Iran to develop nukes. How long would it be before Iran used on the Great Satan???

Clint| 4.23.12 @ 10:19AM

Dr.Ron Paul,
" I Would Ask Congress For A Declaration Of War Against Iran, If Necessary."

Call Bibi X

Occam's Tool| 4.23.12 @ 3:06PM

Yes, but when would he find it necessary, and who cares, anyway. He has the same chance at becoming President that you do, Clint.

Clint| 4.23.12 @ 5:28PM

Spoken Like The Screwball Israel Firster Smear Bund, Neo-Chickenhawk Coward Traitor Bastard That You Are, Tool Job.

Dr.Ron Paul's Foreign Policy Advisor Michael Scheuere, Former C.I.A. Chief of The bin Laden Unit,
" On Iran,The President should:

1.) Explain to the American people that Iran is no threat to the United States unless we or Israel attack it first, and then it would be a serious threat to U.S. access to energy and would likely stage terrorist operations in the continental United States. [The last thanks to 30-years of federal immigration policies that leave us without knowledge of who is in the country or what they are capable of doing.]

2.) Publicly state that there will be no U.S. surprise attack on Iran, and no U.S. attack at all on Iran unless the president asks for a formal declaration of war and the Congress votes its approval in a constitutional manner."

gene hauber| 4.24.12 @ 12:30PM

CLINT......YOUR BRAIN SOUNDS LIKE ACORN OR SEIU ISSUE.
GO AWAY TO HUFFPO

JT| 4.23.12 @ 10:02AM

Maybe Dr. Ron needs a plan to restore his failed campaign first twerp.

Clint| 4.23.12 @ 10:22AM

Maybe, You Should Stick Your Israel Firster Smear Bund RINO-CINO Propaganda, Bibi RINO-CINO Punk Ass.

gene hauber| 4.24.12 @ 12:26PM

add NPR, ACORN and WELFARE...IF YOU DON'T EARN IT , YOU DON'T GET IT. IT'$ NOT YOURS

Ronald Pestowitz| 4.23.12 @ 11:52AM

Dear Jack,

I concur with your views except to say that if the foreign hosts, provided they are allies, pay for every single penny of expense, and the deployments are in our own, sovereign national interest, then I'd keep them, if risk analysis said they were worth OUR while.

Jack in Wi.| 4.23.12 @ 12:55PM

Ronnie this country is not Hesse. We don't rent our troops out to foreign countries. If people want to fight for Israel, England, Germany France etc as mercenaries let them go to these countries and join the Foreign Legion , Gurhkas, IDF, or the Waffen SS.

TrueBlue | 4.23.12 @ 2:58PM

Defense of Japan and S. Korea IS in our national interest. It massively slows China's encroachment on freedom of the seas in that part of the world. Anyone actually paying attention to how China has been acting lately with us downsizing our Navy could see what would happen if we left entirely. Us leaving would negatively affect international trade, INCLUDING trade between us and other nations, something you Paulbots supposedly support.

Europe I can agree with, and Israel is a bulwark against the Middle East, thus is also in our interest. The various countries aligned against them (Lebanon, Jordan, and now Egypt to be specific) along with the terrorist organizations Hamas and Hezbollah would go after either us or Europe once Israel was out of the picture. I know long-term thinking isn't your strong suit, but how do you keep missing the obvious short-term effects?

Occam's Tool| 4.23.12 @ 3:09PM

TrueBlue: The killing of 6 million Jews overrides any drawbacks to Clint, Jack, and Dimitry. There's your answer.

I'm not sure that our troops in Europe are useful anymore; they would be better used to rotate our troops in other places home more often. Europe needs to pick up its share of defense costs better.

Jack in Wi.| 4.23.12 @ 4:55PM

Will you cut out with the 6 million number? The Holcaust Mememorial says 5 1/2 million. Raul Hilberg in his ' History of the Destruction the European Jews ' says about 5 million. David Irving say about 4 million, mostly by starvation, and overwork with about a million by firing squads. The ways you boys like to lie and exagerate, who know's the true number?

50 million were murdered in Eastern Europe and we did nothing. 60 million were killed in China and we did nothing. 2 million were killed in Cambodia and we did nothing. Millions in Africa were killed and we did nothing. 100, 000 Mexican Catholics, right next store, were murdered in the 30's and over a million refugees fled to this country. Almost every Catholic priest in Mexico was murdered or chased out and we did nothing.

Now we are bankrupt on a bunch of needless wars for a needless empire. I think we have spent enough having a worldwide empire just so Israel can keep stealing from, torturing and murdering the Palistinians. If the Israeli's can't make peace and get along with the neighbors let them go back to Russia and elsewhere. They have enough nuclear weapons and arms to destroy most of the Middle East and much of Europe. Let them do their own fighting . Enough is enough.

old white guy| 4.24.12 @ 7:16AM

what an anti-semitic twerp you are.

Clint| 4.23.12 @ 6:02PM

Not Counting Afghanistan & Iraq, There Are 7 U.S. Army Military Bases In Kuwait And An Air Force Base.
There Are Also U.S. Military Based In Bahrain, Qatar And The United Arab Emirates.

Aaaand,
5.5 Million Non-Jews Died In Those Nazi Death Camps and My Dad's Troopers Liberated One Of Those Satellite Nazi Death Camps On The 1st Army Line Of March, Ya Little Screwball Neo-Chickenhawk Israel Firster Smear Bund Goebbals Propaganda Liar Coward,Tool Job.

Michael| 4.23.12 @ 6:53PM

What is your Dad's name? Is he alive?

Mark in LA| 4.23.12 @ 3:25PM

China's encroachment on freedom of the seas? Where do you guys come from? What does this even mean, if it did make sense? No war between the US and China will stay conventional for very long. Both sides know it and will avoid it at all costs. Where is China keeping shipping from occurring?

This kind of propaganda is used all the time to scare the average dufus American into thinking that somehow the navy is doing something other than wasting large amounts of money.

Zbigniew Mazurak | 4.23.12 @ 3:31PM

Actually, China IS encroaching on freedom of navigation by harrassing unarmed ships (American and others), attacking defenseless Asian fisherman and fishing boats, claiming the entire South China Sea as its internal lake, and denying the US the right to sail through it or through the Taiwan Straight. Moreover, China is building a huge navy to enforce its claims. The Navy is doing far more than "wasting large amounts of money", although you wouldn't know, given that you live in the extremely liberal, scummy, disgusting city of Los Angeles. A city unworthy of the honor of naming an entire submarine class (or even a friggin' coast guard cutter) after it.

Mark in LA| 4.23.12 @ 4:02PM

Do you have any real proof of these claims, especially the claim that they are harrassing American flagged ships or stopping US naval ships in international waters?

Drunken Sailor| 4.23.12 @ 5:05PM

Chinese vessels 'harassed US Navy ship'
http://www.independent.co.uk/n.....40814.html

Current enough for you?

Mark in LA| 4.24.12 @ 10:36AM

Much do about nothing. Harrassment would be boarding or intentionally blocking their movement.

LiveFreeOrDie| 4.24.12 @ 7:36PM

"Harrassment would be boarding or intentionally blocking their movement."

You mean like this?

"...two of the Chinese ships stopped directly ahead of the Impeccable, forcing it to an emergency stop to avoid collision..."

This is contained in the linked story above which you apparently did not read.

ebonystone| 4.24.12 @ 10:51AM

Japan is the world's 3rd largest economy, and S. Korea is also an economic powerhouse. They ought to be well able to defend themselves. S. Korea has a standing army of ca. 700,000. I don't see how stationing 25,000 American troops there adds significantly to their defence.
In the case of Japan, it might be useful for us to maintain a naval base there, simply because there's no other available place in that region, and Pearl Harbor is thousands of miles away.

Zbigniew Mazurak | 4.23.12 @ 3:23PM

Foreign wars WILL be over in 2014. As for foreign bases, closing ALL of them would be suicidal both militarily and fiscally. It is much cheaper to maintain them and have troops, ships, and planes operate from them than it would cost to bring all the troops back to the US and build bases for them in the US (or just bring the troops back home and demobilize them). That's right, ladies and gentlemen, it would be far COSTLIER to "bring the troops home" than to keep them where they are.

Defense is the #1 CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY of the federal government. Entitlements and food stamps are patently unconstitutional (not to mention utterly wasteful).

C Bowen | 4.23.12 @ 5:41PM

Mazurak;

Were you scared of Saddam?

Alan Brooks| 4.23.12 @ 6:21PM

Our crummy educational correctional facili.., er system, proves America is not the greatest 'libralism'- Americans just can't get it together in general, we do business well, but nothing more than that.

Alan Brooks| 4.23.12 @ 6:22PM

Our crummy educational correctional facili.., er system, proves America is not the greatest country in the world. You cannot merely blame 'libralism'- Americans just can't get it together in general, we do business well, but nothing more than that.

Gary B| 4.23.12 @ 8:09AM

Democrat progressives are currently neck deep in self destruction, so the main adversaries in the Battle for America are now the Tea Partiers and the corrupt Republican establishment.

The American Hitman| 4.23.12 @ 11:52AM

"The pro-spending Republicans are still there, "

Indeed, not only are they there, they vastly outnumber the TP. Primary a RINI Today!

vtwin| 4.23.12 @ 11:58AM

The Tea-Party is a spend force in American politics, Mitt Romney the establishment candidate, Orrin Hatch the establishment candidate, that because of Ryan’s attacks on the elderly in Washington and the Republican controlled Statehouses’ attacks on women have left the Republican Party divided and the nation disillusioned with Republicans. But on the other hand the Democratic Party is united, Obama is certain to win the Democratic nomination tomorrow having won nearly every delegate thus far, the exception being a few delegates in Oklahoma because of anti-abortion fanatics and in Alabama were a few remaining Democrats raciest that haven’t moved on to the Republican party voted in the Democratic primary there. And with the unemployment rate heading below 7% by election time we will see Obama reelected and the Democrat holding the Senate and retaking the House.

TrueBlue | 4.23.12 @ 3:03PM

What a load of propaganda. Ryan has not attacked the elderly, he leaves those over 55 completely alone and slowly phases in those under that age. Contrary to the bs ads he isn't just killing SS and Medicare.

As for the supposed attacks on women, what about the attacks on our children? What exactly is an attack on women? Do you mean the fact that conservatives don't want to pay for other people's contraceptives and various other PERSONAL activities they choose to engage in? Do you mean the fact we don't believe we should be FORCED to support abortions against our own wishes? The attacks are from the Left against the INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS of US citizens.

vtwin| 4.23.12 @ 5:46PM

Under Ryan’s Medicare plan people under 55 will continue to pay into Medicare to provide healthcare for people over 55 but what happens when those under 55 become “the elderly” upon reaching retirement age? Well, that’s went the attacks begin.

What exactly is an attack on women? When you FORCE a rap victim to undergo inter-vaginal ultrasound before she has an abortion (Virginia), when an employer can fire a female employee who uses contraceptives (Arizona) theses are attacks on women. And what did Mitt Romney say about Planned Parenthood which provides mammograms and breast cancer screenings services to poor women? “We Will 'Get Rid' Of It.”

What about other Americans should they be “FORCED” to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, warrant-less wiretaps, and torture against their wishes?

Drunken Sailor| 4.23.12 @ 5:55PM

My lord, I had no idea the Republicans were after Rap Victims too. Those beast!!

jomo2009| 4.23.12 @ 4:57PM

If Hatch and Lugar are defeated in their respective primaries that statement will be rendered inoperative. (Tip to Ron Ziegler)

skip| 4.23.12 @ 8:46PM

vtwin vtwin vtwin

You are absolutely correct about democrats retaking the house, holding the senate, and Obama being reelected, except for the house remaining republican, republicans taking the senate, and Obama not being able to be elected dogcatcher.

Campaigns are dog eat dog you know. Obama won't be able to survive the dog days of summer this time around now that he'll be vetted, with a record amounting to not much more than stool samples. Hey, no worms that anyone knows of, but he certainly won't get votes from the those who figured out he was calling them cannibals when he said "they talk about me like a dog". Obama does have one thing going for him though, he knows you never transport your dog on the roof of your car. Dries out the meat.

If all this takes the wag out of your tail, remember that happiness is a warm puppy. With a side of fries.

bugless| 4.25.12 @ 7:13AM

Skip, I bow down - that is by far the best thing I've read here or anywhere on the interwebs in a long time. Glad I wasn't drinking anything,,,,

skip| 4.25.12 @ 6:54PM

Just imagine how the blue dog democrats must feel about their prospects.

skip| 4.25.12 @ 7:12PM

At this point they must be considered underdogs.

Clint| 4.23.12 @ 8:25AM

DR. RON PAUL'S “PLAN TO RESTORE AMERICA”

ENTITLEMENTS:

Honors our promise to our seniors and veterans, while allowing young workers to opt out. Block grants Medicaid and other welfare programs to allow States the flexibility and ingenuity they need to solve their own unique problems without harming those currently relying on the programs."

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the.....e-america/

Dai Alanye | 4.23.12 @ 2:35PM

C'mon! RonPaul has no plan beyond talking about big cuts, proposing vast departmental eliminations that have no chance, and voting against everything with the excuse that nothing is good enough to suit him.

What a fraud he's turned out to be. There's no hope of anything constructive from him.

Occam's Tool| 4.23.12 @ 3:10PM

Actually, Paul doesn't discuss big cuts in entitlements, those are his third rail...

Fortunately, he is out of the national picture for keeps. We will see what his son turns into.

Clint| 4.23.12 @ 6:12PM

Actually, Israel Firster Smear Bund BibiBot Tool Job Here Said He Would Vote For The Rulin Elites' Fop Frontman,Mittens Romney Way Back In June.

We Are Being Set Up By The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

Xasteius| 4.23.12 @ 11:45PM

Clint:

This is a conservative site. Your name-calling / profanity rant is very liberal.

Clint| 4.23.12 @ 6:08PM

C'mon What Has The Ruling Elites' RINO-CINO Frontman, Mittens Romney Done.

Obama Is A Tarpster, And Romney Is A Tarpster.

Obama Orchestrated Obamacare, And Romney Orchestrated Romneycare.

Frick & Frack

Michael| 4.23.12 @ 6:54PM

Clint
Will you vote for Obama or Romney?

TLP| 4.23.12 @ 8:29AM

Hmmm. So many choices.

How about we start by DOWNSIZING all of the new Public Sector Union (money laundering) jobs that the Muslim added? How about we CUT the size and scope of all of the Departments that Hussein likes to use to ATTACK this Country, and it's ability to Create jobs?

The Energy Department. (Does anyone know what Energy does, when it's NOT going after Oil and Gas And Coal Compamies, or Forging Documents?)

The Teacher's Union Department. (That one is self explanatory)

Interior. ( Again. What does it do, other than KILL JOBS' and Forge Documents?)

Not another Dime to EGYPT, LIBYA or PAKISTAN. Not another Dime to "The Palestinian land of Exploding Children, 7 Year Old Brides, and Acid in the faces of little girls trying to go to School." In fact, take all of the money that used to go to these ANIMALS, (You heard me. ANIMALS) and give it to our Fellow "People of the Book" in Israel. It will help them Defend their Ancient Homeland, and their Capitol City of JERUSALEM. A City that the Bible mentions over 600 times, while the Koran NEVER mentions it.

Gee. I wonder which Faiths have claim to Jerusalem?

Let's
Start taking a Meat Axe to REDUNDENCIES in Social Programs. Let's take a Meat Axe to every new Regulation that the Muslim's Marxists have installed against every aspect of Creating Work and Jobs.

Let's open up EVERYTHING to Drilling and Mining. You Union Idiots...How's about Waking TFU? How many Union Jobs would there be if we were to start Drilling, and Welding, and Rigging, and Transporting, all over the Country?

We stop GUTTING the Military, and start REBUILDING it. Let's get the Constellation Rocket Program back on the board.

Paul Ryan's Plans on Entitlements is a good beginning. Simpson / Bowles is a good beginning. A Flat Tax is a GREAT Beginning. A Lemonade Stand would be more than this Marxist, Islamist Loving THING, in the White House has done.

Make no mistake about it. His Plan, from the beginning, was Cloward and Piven. OVERWHELM the Social Safety Nets. OVERWHELM the System, until it breaks. Separate us by Race, Creed, Colour, and Economic Situation. First he CREATES the Crisis. Then he Exploits it, as any "Son of Marx" would do.

Mommy, Daddy. Grandma and Grandpa. One "Mentor" after another. A Racist Pastor in a Racist Church. Farrakhan, Ayers, Dohrn, Farrakhan, and Khalidi. the Black Panthers, and now, The Muslim Brotherhood. Communists, Marxists, Maoists, Muslims, and Anarchists.

Call me crazy, but I think that we're way past The Tipping Point.

Don't you?

It's way past time to take out the TRASH.

Von Mises Jr| 4.23.12 @ 9:03AM

TLP makes good suggestions, but I think we need to think outside the box the politicians and intellectuals have created for us.
How about, in addition to deciding what must be cut, we decide to create wealth and GDP?
We have had a de facto nationalization of the banking, student loan, health care and oil industries to name a few.
We have 800 years of energy and our national policy is to thwart all energy production on public lands. Consider the jobs, GDP growth, drilling leases and taxes on wages we would create if we drill baby drill?
What if the five major banks lent to the private sector instead of being a shell game to monetize the debt? Feds lend to the banks at .25% at the discount window and banks buy Treasuries at 2-3%. Nice money laundering operation you got going there Ben.
I spoke the lead attorney for the ObamaCare law suit. He was discussing the fact that insurance companies go bankrupt under ObamaCare. I pointed out that the state mandates for Medicaid will bankrupt states such as AL, GA, LA, MS, etc....and how do you have a Federal Republic if the Federal portion goes bankrupt? Most of the people in those states will qualify for free health care!
Our problem is not only too much spending, but fascist control of industries that would otherwise create wealth and jobs!

Indy| 4.23.12 @ 9:12AM

You are correct, the bankrupting insurance companies and the states is the end game for this Administration. Cut spending and pro growth strategy tax reform makes sense. Energy is the key to spark job creation.

Quartermaster| 4.23.12 @ 9:05AM

The trash of both parties needs to go. Let the RINOs join the Democrats. It's really where they belong anyway.

TLP| 4.23.12 @ 9:25AM

You're in luck. You can send money to Orin Hatch's opponent, and to that POS Dick Lugar's opponent.

And, when you do, please tell the rest of us how to do the same.

SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS!

JT| 4.23.12 @ 10:01AM

100% agree. Nuke one party and gut the other. Thats the winning strategy.

nathan| 4.23.12 @ 10:26AM

Animals. Sir, you plan to open the camps when? No really when do plan to open the camps? And what method are going to use to exterminate them? I mean we know from nearly 70 years ago that Cyclon B works really well so you might want to try that. I don't recommend doing the firing squad thing. When soldiers, "ordinary men" westerners in particular (the Japanese might have been the exception to this based on interviews with them) many of them had trouble shooting civilians down in cold blood. The members of the action groups in Russia often would get blind drunk at night because they just had serious problems throwing down on those people at Babi Yar and elsewhere so I would recommend you make it somewhat impersonal.

Animals. Sherman, Sheridan called the Indians animals and worse. It made it oh so easy to exterminate them didn't it? Some two years before the massacres in Rwanda, the radio stations there were filled with commentaries saying how the Tutsis were animals too. It made it so easy to kill them when the Rwanda holocaust started because the Hutus weren't killing people they were killing animals. The government radio stations told them so.

And of course Hitler and the Nazis, well they dehumanized the Jews didn't they? But Martin Luther had done it centuries before. He was just so frightfully anti semitic. We recall don't we that the Spanish Inquisition was directed at the Jews wasn't it? When the Crusaders entered Jerusalem it wasn't just Muslims they massacred, they killed every Jew they could find too. Be careful, be very careful about being too holier than thou here. During the Inquisition Jews were safer in the Middle East under islamic rule than in Europe under those "civilized" Christians.

Animals. No. We do not ever dehumanize humans as a group. NEVER. Without question some Palestinians in Middle East have behaved horribly. But we as Americans do not believe in collective guilt. We believe that individuals are responsible for their actions and only their actions not the actions of others and the vast majority of Palestinians break no laws, take no other lives. We cannot condemn them as a group for what a small minority do. We cannot strip them of their humanity.

No more than we can assign collective guilt to Lebanese Christians for the massacres at Sabra and Chatila. Or too all Jews in Israel for Sharon not stopping those massacres.

No. People are not animals. They are people. If we do this, then do we call those "good" southerners, the night riders who hung blacks in the last century, animals too? No. They were humans behaving criminally. Just as those humans who did those horrible things in Palestine are.

Unless you DO wish to open the camps? Is that really your intent and that of others?

As for cutting the budget which is what the article really was about, none of the stories about the F-35 are good. Defense Technology International, Aviation Week, Warship, all of them the this program looks ghastly. Blame the contract blame the government program managers, blame whoever, but that program is going to cost a fortune and not perform. Kill it now?

the Arleigh Burke project? All the stories on that look bad too. Radar is too small, can't be upgraded, Navy is not estimating the costs right, you name it. If you say you can't find areas in the defense budget to cut, you aren't looking hard enough. Start with these two programs, add in the litoral combat ship, go from there.

Drunken Sailor| 4.23.12 @ 10:55AM

Nathan,
Have you taken your meds today?

nathan| 4.23.12 @ 11:24AM

Sir, the moment you start calling a whole class of people animals the way he did, get the camps ready. Show me where I'm wrong here. You can not call human beings "animals" especially a whole group like Palestinians most of whom are law abiding and do nothing wrong. When you do so you make it easy to abuse them, strip them of their unalienable rights (yes Arabs, Palestinians, call them what you will have unalienable rights too, TJ wasn't just referring to the people on the eastern seaboard of North America) and then kill them. We treat people as individuals who when they break the law and harm others, we act accordingly but we do not believe as I said in collective guilt and we do not call a whole people "animals" based on the actions of a minority of that group.

Were all southerners "animals" because of the actions of the KKK? Were all Europeans animals because of the actions of the inquisitors? Were all the people of New England animals based on the actions taken during the Salem witch trials? We can go on and on here.

No we do not pass collective judgements. We judge as Martin Luther King Jr said each person by his own "content of character", not by his color of skin, what religion he belongs to, not any external. We judge him by how he and he alone acts.

And all people are humans created in the image of God. Try not to forget that. When an "individual" misbehaves, he forfeits his unalienable rights, but he does not forfeit the rights of his brother, his neighbor, or anyone else.

Americans are the forem0st proponents of individual rights. That means for Palestinians, Arabs, just plain people, call them whatever you want, they get to be judged solely by what they and they alone do. Not by what some other person does, even if that means that other person straps on a bomb and goes out and blows it up.

And I would remind you that the Israelis are not above resorting to terrorism too. The King David Hotel attack, widely condemned as an act of terrorism, was carried out by the Irgun. Menachim Begin a member of that group was later elected prime minister. The Israelis early on provided financial support and recognition for Hamas. Their hands are not totally clean here.

Drunken Sailor| 4.23.12 @ 11:46AM

1. It's TLP, not TJ

2. He simply stated cut our aid to them, not judge or murder them. Cut their aid until they decide to police themselves and clean up their own society.

3. Go take your meds and quit getting bent out of shape so easily.

4. Do you get as defensive when terrorist groups overseas call us "The great Satan"? Afterall, aren't they judging us as a whole, not as the individual?

5. Try De-Caf.

Drunken Sailor| 4.23.12 @ 12:15PM

Here is a example of just how "Humane" some of those Palestinians in charge are.

Palestinian Sentenced to Death for Selling a Home to Jews
http://www.weeklystandard.com/.....40592.html

nathan| 4.23.12 @ 1:47PM

TJ is short hand for Thomas Jefferson. I didn't realize I had to spell it out when I'm making reference to things like "reduced to despotism". You do know by heart the Declaration of Independence right?

And kindly read what I wrote. I objected and I still object to his broad dehumanization of any group. Because when you were to people as "animals" it allows you to do anything you want to them. In dealing with people it's harder though not impossible to exterminate them. But animals? PETA notwithstanding, you can do things to animals that you can't really do to people. And notice his response to me and my response in return. He said "they do this" and "they did that". As I point out, the "they" is a small percentage of the whole. You cannot hold 90 percent of a group responsible for the actions of the other 10. Individuals have unalienable rights not conditioned on the actions of others. I'll reiterate the point, it's easy for us to say that the Palestinians should "Man Up" and stop the terrorists among them. Show men when that has happened. Did southerners rise up in mass in the early 1900's and stop the lynchings? Did whites rise up in mass and defend the unalienable rights of the Indians? How many French acted to stop the deportations of their Jews to Auschwitz? Not a lot.

We can go on. You and others are asking for a standard of behavior that neither ourselves in out past, say at Salem? or others in Europe (how much resistance did the Germans find as they carried out the Holocaust?) that virtually no one meets.

That's why we treat people as individuals responsible solely for their own acts. Which means that the vast majority of these people are not "animals" and should not be referred to that way. When you do so then get the camps ready. Because you start crossing lines like we did in Georgia with the Cherokees and elswhere out west that you will not recross. As allegedly civilized people having learned the lessons of history, we know we can't go down that road.

Drunken Sailor| 4.23.12 @ 3:06PM

Must really be hard to get your halo polished. It's noticeable that you try to talk down to me. It's a typical liberal tactic. No, I do not have the Declaration memorized, never claimed too. As I am sure you do not either. It's also noticeable how you throw out , a small percentage of Palistines commit these acts, yet fail to provide sources for your statement, or even notice on the news how many of their children are taught to hate jews at a early age.

Then you want to throw around strawman arguments about the south, nazi's ect. and how the public never stood up to them. You do realize that eventually the public did stand up, don't you?

Get over yourself, your holier-than thou angst, and like I suggested earlier, try de-caf.

Occam's Tool| 4.23.12 @ 3:21PM

DS: Fargo. Find yourself. Steak. You know the drill. Con and Ken have my real contact info. Of course, should either of those gentlemen find themselves in Fargo, I will be quite upset if I don't know about it.

Drunken Sailor| 4.23.12 @ 3:34PM

Careful OT, always wanted to visit Fargo. Take care my friend and if your every in the Illinois/KY border area look me up. I live in the Shawnee National forest, it's peaceful, I always have bourbon and steaks handy and while not in Con's league I'm not to shabby on grill.

Occam's Tool| 4.23.12 @ 3:20PM

The Danes rescued all of their Jews, as did one of the Eastern European countries. You, nathan, on the other hand, would have let them die.

Jews got their asses kicked protesting Southern antisemitism. Patrick Cleburne, a Confederate general, wanted Blacks in Confederate uniform.

It shouldn't take some sort of miracle for Palestinians to stop slitting the throats of 3 month olds, or, at least, NOT CHEERING IT ON.

Nathan, your knowledge of psychopathy is far less than mine. STFU.

TLP| 4.23.12 @ 11:11AM

They TARGET innocent women and children, with their Rockets, and their Suicide Bombers. They TARGET Hospitals and Schools, with their Rockets and Car Bombs.

They Slit infants' throats, in the name of their God of Murder. They shoot up cars with only Women and Children inside. They shoot them all, and put one in the PREGNANT Woman's stomach, for good measure. They held up 5 year old little girl by her hair, the other day, and put a BULLET IN HER HEAD, all the while Filming it. They strap Bombs to their own Children. Murder their Daughters in the name of Honour. Throw Acid in the faces of little girls, trying to go to school. They put Liquid Explosives inside their BABY'S bottle, and try and board planes, in the name of their God of Murder.

They stopped being HUMAN a long time ago.

"We don't dehumanized a group, Never!"

GFY Scumbag.

They DEHUMANIZED themselves.

nathan| 4.23.12 @ 11:55AM

What percentage of Palestinians are "they"? Five percent, 10 percent? At most right? If that many? The rest, including five year old children who do nothing, are not the "they" and bare no responsibility for the actions of the "they".

Now you can argue, and some do that the law abiding folks should go out and stop the bad guys. Really. Did law abiding southerners confont the KKK night riders? No. Did those good southerners stop the ethnic cleansing of the Cherokees from Georgia to the west where thousands of not tens of thousands died? No. How many good Christians confronted the those ghastly inquisitors and said, gee you can't do that? Not many. Did that make them them collectively responsible for what happened? Probably not. Failure to defend is not the same as going out and murdering someone. How clear is the law on this?

If you don't personally kill someone, if you are not involved in any way in a criminal act, but don't risk your life to stop it, you're not a bad guy folks. We wish people were more heroic, honestly, but we don't take their rights away for not standing up to the bad guys. In gang ridden neighborhoods, do we condemn those who fail to confront the gangs? No. So why do hold responsible the law abiding Palestinians who are afraid to risk their lives to go up against the terrorists? Would you sir in their position do so? Don't know. Those who have served in the military can say yes, but if you're a civilian with your wife and child at risk it's not that easy.

So again, who is the "they" here? Most of the Palestinians are law abiding and have broken no laws and are not bad guys. But we do not in any case dehumanize whole class of human beings. We call criminals criminals and deal accordingly.

Unless you do plan to open those camps sir? What do plan to name yours? And do you plan to watch the kids being executed? Watch the footage from Auschwitz sometime. It will give you the guidance you need.

Now enough of this.

Dai Alanye | 4.23.12 @ 2:50PM

Nathan is making a fool of himself with gross exaggerations of fact and historical incidents. His posts are mere ranting propaganda, not worthy of being read, much less of being taken seriously.

I regret being so blunt, but why allow him to waste our time?

Drunken Sailor| 4.23.12 @ 3:06PM

Good point! I'll take your advice.

Occam's Tool| 4.23.12 @ 3:17PM

Have you seen what Palestinian kids are taught in school regarding Jews, Nathan? No?

The palestinian ruling class is obscene. The Palestinian mass of adults is obscene. Only less than 10% of ANY population can participate in armed conflict, Nathan. But the war on Jewish children is VERY popular on the Palestinian side.

Dr. Jasser can get fewer than 36 Muslims to stand with him. CAIR can find thousands. That's a problem.

By the way: Dai, find youself in Fargo, contact me for a steak at Redford's.

Nick| 4.23.12 @ 1:21PM

Again, Nathan, you manage to be even more stupid than your last post!
How do you do it? It must take real effort.

Now, the nazis used Zyclon-B, not Cyclon B, dope.

The Spanish Inquisition targeted Jewish converts to the Catholic Church, not Jews. Most of the Jews in Spain left with the Moslems into North Africa. It was a political act, more than a Church act, since it was pushed by those who were in competition with these Jewish converts, who thought that they were too successful.

And, the Crusaders did not try to kill "every Jew they could find." This is a ridiculous statement. Where do get this garbage?

It is the leftists, like Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Mussolini, and Castro, who kill their perceived enemies en masse. Not conservatives, moron.

Occam's Tool| 4.23.12 @ 3:11PM

TLP is another man THAT DESERVES A STEAK.

TLP| 4.23.12 @ 3:45PM

Occam. It's me.

But you already knew that, didn't you?

Yougenic | 4.23.12 @ 9:14AM

WHY... is it so difficult to eliminate agencies that remain incapable of accomplishing their original mission? OR, those who have left the reservation and act rogue? What gives?

c. j. acworth| 4.23.12 @ 9:51AM

Because the benefit is concentrated and thus creates a vocal constituency for an agency's preservation and expansion, while the harm is diffuse and thus creates little outrage among the masses. An example is the National Endowment for the Arts, which gives tax dollars to "artists" who make portraits of the Virgin Mary out of elephant manure, or put crucifixes into jars of urine. The few recipients of these grants are a very vocal group who will lobby hard to keep the loot coming (think Harry Reid and Cowboy Poetry) while the average taxpayer is told that the total amount of money thus wasted is not even a rounding error in the total budget. So, no general outrage, and the slop continues.

Occam's Tool| 4.23.12 @ 3:11PM

Bureaucracies defend themselves, YOUGENIC, amazingly well.

Mark MacInnis| 4.23.12 @ 9:50AM

Residents (I won't call them citizens as they contribute nothing and produce nothing of value) who have become dependent/addicted to entitlement money from the government will scream like stuck pigs when the golden faucet slows from the Obama gusher to a prudent trickle. We will hear about "children starving, old people eating cat food, sick people dying, families being broken up", etc., etc., etc. ad nauseum.

As far as the media onslaught is concerned, it is gonna get WAY WORSE before it gets slightly better....

We'd better be prepared for it....

TexasMom2012| 4.23.12 @ 11:02AM

And those same residents who are 'poor' have a home, car, cable, tv, gaming system, phones... How is this poor? The Feds keep raising the poverty level to include more people. More dependents, more votes. Right up to the time they run out of both other people's money and the ability to expand the money supply by fiat (QE1, QE2, QE3 anyone?). If or most likely when the dollar is no longer the reserve currency and oil is no longer priced in dollars then the dollar will collapse. This will create anarchy as the gimmee gimmee crowd will react like the losers in Greece. I suggest everyone of us get prepared if Congress cannot stop the runaway spending.

TexasMom2012| 4.23.12 @ 11:03AM

Meant reserve currency of the world...

Bill X| 4.23.12 @ 9:56AM

It's way too little way too late. We have a trillion dollar deficit with another $5 trillion in unfunded liabilities. It would be political suicide to suggest the cuts that are necessary to fix things.

JT| 4.23.12 @ 9:59AM

And be prepared for the "take it to the streets" card they WILL play when and where it becomes needed. They will burn this nation to the ground before they lose what they gained in 100 years.

Louis Jenkins| 4.23.12 @ 10:28AM

JT:

Then let them burn this nation to the ground. As they will, they will lose what they gain. Perhaps they will be a lighter load when the smoke clears. If they have not the sense to realize were their cash comes from then allow them the latitude to "play" at anarchy.

JT| 4.23.12 @ 11:01AM

Sadly, thats pretty much where I see it going in the end.

TexasMom2012| 4.23.12 @ 11:04AM

Ditto

Clint| 4.23.12 @ 10:34AM

DR. RON PAUL “PLAN TO RESTORE AMERICA”

CUTTING GOVERNMENT WASTE:

Makes a 10% reduction in the federal workforce, slashes Congressional pay and perks, and curbs excessive federal travel. To stand with the American People, President Paul will take a salary of $39,336, approximately equal to the median personal income of the American worker.

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the.....e-america/

Oldefarte| 4.23.12 @ 2:52PM

'..... Breitbart.com Credit Where It's Due: Tablet Calls Out Media Matters, Center for American Progress, J Street on Antisemitism
by Joel B. Pollak 85 days ago

Tablet magazine, the new online Jewish-themed publication that focuses on a broad range of current affairs topics, has taken Media Matters for America (MMfA) and the Center for American Progress (CAP) to task for using antisemitic language in criticizing Israel.
.....In two separate articles, Tablet takes on the organizations that are the core of the Democrats' media and policy strategy, joining a debate in which the defenders of MMfA and CAP have resorted to the worn-out fallacy that their critics are trying to silence debate on Israel.One article by Spencer Ackerman--whose blog was once hosted by CAP--addresses "fellow progressives" and insists that while criticism of Israel is sometimes appropriate, those who use anti-Jewish tropes--like specious charges of dual loyalty and "Israel first"--undermine the case they are trying to make. He singles out Media Matters, CAP, and the radical pro-Palestinian lobby J Street, among others, for their rhetorical record of bigotry: Some on the left have recently taken to using the term “Israel Firster” and similar rhetoric to suggest that some conservative American Jewish reporters, pundits, and policymakers are more concerned with the interests of the Jewish state than
those of the United States.... “Israel Firster” has a nasty anti-Semitic pedigree, one that many Jews will intuitively understand without knowing its specific history. It turns out white supremacist Willis Carto was reportedly the first to use it, and David Duke popularized it through his propaganda network. And yet [Media Matters' M.J.] Rosenberg and others actually claim they’re using it to stimulate “debate,” rather than effectively mirroring the tactics of some of the people they criticize....The attempt to kosherize “Israel Firster” is an ugly rationalization. It shouldn’t matter that the American Jewish right proliferates the term “anti-Israel.” The easiest way to lose a winnable argument is to get baited into using their tactics. I don’t fetishize false civility; bullies ought to get it twice as bad as they give. People disagree, so they should argue. Shouting is healthier than shutting up.The other article, by Lee Smith,
addresses the effect that casual anti-Israel bigotry of the kind found at MMfA and CAP has had on allowing antisemitism to become legitimate in mainstream political discourse. Smith attacks the "gatekeepers" of the mainstream media, who routinely--and appropriately--filter out racism, but have been facilitating antisemitism:The editors of magazines and newspapers have a responsibility as gatekeepers of polite society. It turns out the gatekeepers haven’t been vigilant. We live in a culture where the social taboo against anti-black racism is so fierce that violating the taboo means certain expulsion from polite company. But the very reverse process is taking place when it comes to anti-Semitism: The taboo is being rapidly eroded, and those who ought to confront it are enabling it.Among the culprits: CAP, MMfA, and J Street. Smith notes that CAP attacked the Middle East Media Research Institute, which performs the invaluable service of translating Arab media into English--and which, as a result, has been maligned by CAP and the anti-Israel left:How do the Jews who run this translation organization promote Islamophobia, according to CAP? By translating the opinions of those who want to persecute and kill Jews. Try fitting this twisted reasoning into Gude’s zero-tolerance policy against any form of discrimination: Women’s rights groups stir up male hatred by collecting statistics of violence against women; the NAACP fans the flames of racism because it advocates on behalf of equal rights for African-Americans.Smith also notes the hypocrisy of those left-wing Jews--like Rosenberg and J Street's president, Jeremy Ben-Ami--who try to defend the use of antisemitic rhetoric by claiming that pro-Israel Americans are using false charges of bigotry to silence debate on Israel: What makes people insensitive to racism is when American political and intellectual elites refuse to confront racist language. The use of phrases like “Israel Firster” and “dual loyalist” that are based on anti-Semitic tropes is anti-Semitic. So is the belief that Jews fan the flames of hatred for discussing the opinions of those who hate them. What is even more vile than the anti-Semitic language impugning the political motives of pro-Israel American Jews is someone like Ben-Ami crying foul when those Jews object to being slandered as disloyal. In effect, the message is, don’t defend yourselves against the calumnies heaped upon you, Jews, because the more noise you make the more trouble there will be for you in the long run.Tablet's message--not just in these articles, but elsewhere--is aimed at a liberal-to-left readership. Therefore, the fact that the magazine has confronted antisemitism at MMfA, CAP, and other left-wing organizations so forthrightly is both remarkable and commendable.....'

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/.....a-Exposed/

Occam's Tool| 4.23.12 @ 3:13PM

Beloved Oldefarte: Please use more paragraphs. I love long posts if I can read them, and your thinking is admirable.

TLP followed my advice, and see how much more brilliant his posts are now?

Oldefarte| 4.23.12 @ 3:22PM

Beloved OT, it's done to compress [and not waste] space here, due to the longetivity of the information. I [nor anyone else here] is writing a letter to the POTUS or the Constitution, so grammatical English useage is of little concern.....IOW, IT'S THE THOUGHTS THAT COUNT [or should be at least]. Why not instead eliminate the MORONIC BS of some of these imbiciles here that disguise their excrement verbage for supposedly intelligent thought perhaps? Shalom!!!!!!

TLP| 4.23.12 @ 4:59PM

You are way too nice to me.

Mark in LA| 4.23.12 @ 3:41PM

Sounds like the same old Abe Foxman crap where any criticism of Isreal or any Jew is by definition anti-Semitism. Sorry, but people are getting sick of this, just like they are getting sick of the charge of racism leveled at any comment about race except negative ones about whites. Guess who the blacks learned this trick from?

Drunken Sailor| 4.23.12 @ 4:02PM

The Democrats and Liberals?

Mark in LA| 4.23.12 @ 4:04PM

And the tribe that make up much of their leadership.

Drunken Sailor| 4.23.12 @ 5:56PM

Socialist and Communist?

Oldefarte| 4.23.12 @ 4:48PM

Re-read the above, since it obviously does NOT insinuate what you propose [and in fact states that constructive critisism is warranted]. What it does in fact prove is that this '''''ISRAEL FIRSTER''''' crapola is simply asininely intended to racially smear Jews [and everyone else] that rightfully support Israel!!!!

Mark in LA| 4.24.12 @ 10:42AM

I call BS, when this is the level of your argument, you have none.

The use of phrases like “Israel Firster” and “dual loyalist” that are based on anti-Semitic tropes is anti-Semitic.

AS far as your idiotic nonsense about what this "proves", it proves nothing. No, "Isreal Firster" is about Jews like Richard Perele who couldn't give a rat's ass about America and spend all their efforst trying to get goys to die fighting for Isreal.

Mark in LA| 4.24.12 @ 11:48AM

Actually, I was too soft on Perle. It is about Jews like him who actually despise America since they move to France once their dirtywork is done who spend all their effort lieing and scheming to get American goys to die fighting Isreal's wars.

Oldefarte| 4.24.12 @ 12:53PM

"The use of phrases like “Israel Firster” and “dual loyalist” that are based on anti-Semitic tropes is anti-Semitic" is the EXACT SAME THING that Joes Pollock indicates, fool! JFC! Read the GD article above that I pasted and contemplate your IGNORANCE!!!!!!!!!!!

Oldefarte| 4.24.12 @ 12:57PM

PS: Contemplate also as to WHY it is that I posted this article. Duh! Are there bloggers here that have historically used this 'Israel Firster' language constantly and repeatedly throughout their posts when 99% of the rest of us have never heard of that termonology before? Again, duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mark in LA| 4.24.12 @ 7:15PM

Nobody cares what you and the rest of the hate America, Israel First crowd thinks.

Paul from SA| 4.23.12 @ 11:15AM

What about Lugar, Hatch, Hutchison, McConnell, McCain and the other Republican dinosours?

When did they ever want or ever try to cut spending?

How much has federal spending increased in their time in office?

TLP| 4.23.12 @ 5:03PM

Which is why they have to go.

Find their opponent's web sites, and give them money.

I've done it twice in the Wisconsin Recall Bullshit, and I plan to do it here, as well.

SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS!

Derek Leaberry| 4.23.12 @ 11:19AM

As they have shown since the 2010 landslide, the Republicans have no intention to cut spending. Even if Romney is elected, the Republicans will only cut the increases a little bit. The GOP is institutionally invested in big government. The only way to achieve cuts in government is for the whole system to go Greek.

Ground Control| 4.23.12 @ 12:13PM

I am forced to agree with you. Republicans who control the Party apparatus can and do spend like drunken Democrats, and on the same things. Can the Tea Party take over Republican leadership and change the Party's direction?

That is a very apt description, "go Greek." It is like "going Postal." Frightening.

Oldefarte| 4.24.12 @ 12:59PM

'Go Greek'? If that happens, the USA will GO TOILET-CESSPOOL!!!!!!!!

TLP| 4.23.12 @ 5:05PM

Agreed. Pick up the phone, and give them shit.

Remember, it's the Squeaky Wheel that gets the grease.

cicero| 4.23.12 @ 12:17PM

VonMises: All points I have urged over the past few years - great. Maybe we can get more and more people talking about the same things. I would like to see more stats on the Medical Prescription benefit, though. It seems, from what I have read, that Bush II believed that the use of meds would replace the need for the more expensive in hospital care. Seems to me that he may have been right, but I have seen only preliminary numbers on this. As to the other spending, the discussions in this forum have it right. The "tea party" movement has brought the Republican Party around, and may even obviate the need for a replacement party.

Von Mises Jr| 4.23.12 @ 1:14PM

Perhaps Orin Hatch's retirement will add to the fear Bennett's third place primary finish instilled in the RINO's. We took out over 700 Democrats nationwide in 2010. RINO's are not far behind in ticking off conservatives and Constitution lovers.

Tom Kyba| 4.23.12 @ 12:22PM

Not that it matters at this point but this litany of great acts that Clint believes Ron Paul would commit sounds like a wet dream. How long after attaining power would the speeches start including quotes like "Well, I didn't actually say that" or "current circumstances dictate that we cannot actually eliminate this department at this time blah blah blah but just re-elect me and watch me fly in my second term" or, more probably "it's not my fault, I blame everyone else for not sharing my vision". Easy to promise things when you aren't under pressure to deliver them.

Mark in LA| 4.24.12 @ 11:41AM

The only way to find out is make Paul the monimee, especially since he is the only one who can beat Obama. Wait till the Bain ads start about Mittsy.

Oldefarte| 4.24.12 @ 1:03PM

This is your idea of an intelligent point/argument? Paul? GFC, he hasn't won even one political contest to date and never will. The only contest he'll win is from the LOONEY-TOONS FLAKOS OF L.J. If Paul can't even best competing Republican candidates, how in hades is he capable of being elected POTUS? Great conclusion, now go drive your Edsel!!!!!!

PattyMor| 4.23.12 @ 2:34PM

I would like to see their proposals and legislation when they have the the government back in Republican control. They can pass all the legislation today out of the House, because its safe as Harry Reid is not going to let much of anything pass. Certainly not the repeal of Obamacare, Dodd Frank, medicare/medicaid reform, nor social security reform.

Its same thing for the Keystone Pipeline. The House can pass it all day long, then Harry bottles it up in the Senate. Oh, there may be more Senators who would vote for it today (after all, its election year), but trust me there will not be 60 votes to pass it out and on the Prez. Candy to fool the voters.

Leonard Gilbert| 4.23.12 @ 2:41PM

Feel free to cut the waste out of government spending but it won't make a dent....unless Congress is willing and able to do the only thing that will....eliminate Civil Service and privatize the work.
Outside of that most obvious, any cuts to spending will create unemployment and destroy any hope of recovery because you see....it's not the spending, it's the price of the goods and services that the government spends our money on. The prices are around 65-70% higher than they need to be and they are there for one reason...to turn a 5,000 point DOW Average into a 13,000 point DOW average in order to create a mound of Ghostwealth for Corporate America. And, they have used the compounding effect of our Income Tax Code to achieve this con.

Scott| 4.23.12 @ 3:00PM

Jack In Wi and other Paul supporters show their true liberal colors. They never really want to cut domestic spending. Paul never has came up with any plan on this. He and his followers pretend just cutting defense(which i support)and foreign aid(which I support)is enough. My guess is,if Paul had come out for domestic cuts as well as ending foreign entangelents he would have far fewer supporters.

Zbigniew Mazurak | 4.23.12 @ 3:25PM

Exactly!

Ron Paul is adamantly opposed to any cuts to entitlement programs (he just wants to have an "adult conversation" about them), but he's all too happy to cut defense spending, which is the #1 Const. duty of the federal government. He's a strident liberal, not a conservative, and not even a libertarian.

Clint| 4.23.12 @ 3:33PM

That's A Lie.

You're A Liar, Ziggy.

Ronald Reagan,
"Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country."

Clint| 4.23.12 @ 3:44PM

Ronald Reagan On Defense Waste:

" During my 1980 campaign, I called federal waste and fraud a national scandal. We knew we could never rebuild America's strength without first controlling the exploding cost of defense programs, and we're doing it. When we took office in 1981, costs had been escalating at an annual rate of 14 percent. Then we began our reforms. And in the last two years, cost increases have fallen to less than 1 percent. We've made huge savings. Each F-18 fighter costs nearly $4 million less today than in 1981. One of our air-to-air missiles costs barely half as much.

Getting control of the defense bureaucracy is no small task. Each year the Defense Department signs hundreds of thousands of contracts. So yes, a horror story will sometimes turn up despite our best efforts. That's why we appointed the first Inspector General in the history of the Defense Department. And virtually every case of fraud or abuse has been uncovered by our Defense Department, our Inspector General. Secretary Weinberger should be praised, not pilloried, for cleaning the skeletons out of the closet. As for those few who have cheated taxpayers or have swindled our Armed Forces with faulty equipment, they are thieves stealing from the arsenal of democracy, and they will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law."

Clint| 4.23.12 @ 3:37PM

DR. RON PAUL'S “PLAN TO RESTORE AMERICA”

SPENDING:

Cuts $1 trillion in spending during the first year of Ron Paul’s presidency, eliminating five cabinet departments (Energy, HUD, Commerce, Interior, and Education), abolishing the Transportation Security Administration and returning responsibility for security to private property owners, abolishing corporate subsidies, stopping foreign aid, ending foreign wars, and returning most other spending to 2006 levels."

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the.....e-america/

Oldefarte| 4.23.12 @ 3:15PM

Here's OF's budget reduction plan:

1. Elect Romney [and all Republicans, preferably conservative ones] and allow his administration to cut the federal budget a certain percentage per year [ie 20%] and/or to selectively eliminate federal unnecessary whole departments, agencies etc.

2. Place a spending [freeze] cap/ceiling that disallows any more governmental expendatures futuristically by legislation.

3. Entirely eliminate governmental welfare and convert the non-critical aspects [where possible] of same to workfare, where recipients are required to replace the now governmental labor force in return for their welfare benefits received [thereby eliminating a majority of the now present federal governmental labor force].

4. Eliminate the payroll tax salary limitation on Social Security and Medicare taxiation and tax on a decreasing percentage scale the income as same increases; and additionally scale back and eliminate any/all absolutely unnecessary medical coverages and procedures of Medicare.

Big D| 4.23.12 @ 3:21PM

The "pro-spending-Republicans" that are up for re-election are in our sights this year. Primaries matter.

Oldefarte| 4.23.12 @ 4:51PM

Yes, but not as much as the general, since this country will financially/economically die if Obama is successfully re-elected!!!!!!!

Zbigniew Mazurak | 4.23.12 @ 3:28PM

Of all the budget plans proposed so far, the RSC's plan is the best.

It reforms entitlements, repeals defense spending sequestration, replaces it with cuts elsewhere, and balances the budget in just FIVE YEARS.

On the Senate side, Sen. Rand Paul's budget is the best, as it does all of the above plus abolishes 4 unconstitutional departments and privatizes the TSA, and also dramatically simplifies the tax code by instituting a flat tax.

The Toomey Plan is very good, but it has two flaws:

1) No entitlement reform. Entitlements already constitute 63% of all federal spending, so anyone who doesn't propose any reforms of these programs is NOT serious about cutting government spending.
2) It still leaves a 3-rate, progressive income tax, instead of a flat income tax.

Scott| 4.23.12 @ 4:05PM

The American Conservative is equally lacking in prescriptions to cut spending(except for cutting defense).

Indy| 4.23.12 @ 6:17PM

Keep the focus on spending, debt, deficit are out of control, cut spending and in the earlier years, not outer.

"The government's retirement benefits programs will run out of money three years earlier than previously thought, its trustees said on Monday, increasing the pressure on lawmakers to reform the federal safety net for millions of Americans. The trustees said the Social Security fund for retirees will become insolvent in 2033. But it said the Medicare funds will run out in 2024, the same forecast as last year.

The trustees said a key factor in revising the Social Security estimate was the view that Americans' average real earnings were likely to grow more slowly than previously thought, thus crimping revenues from taxes that finance the fund.

"Lawmakers should address the financial challenges facing Social Security and Medicare as soon as possible," the trustees' annual report said. "Taking action sooner rather than later will leave more options and more time available to phase in changes so that the public has adequate time to prepare," it said.

The deteriorating shape of Medicare and Social Security funds -- largely because of an aging U.S. population and rising healthcare costs -- highlights the need to overhaul the costly benefits programs and adds fire to the debate over how to rein in government spending.

Thirty-six percent of the U.S. budget is used to pay for health care insurance for 47 million Americans and benefits for 56 million retirees -- making them the two largest federal expenditures.

Trustees said the disability insurance program alone, which is generally lumped in with Social Security, faces the most immediate financing shortfall. It said that fund will likely be depleted in 2016, two years earlier than projected last year."

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/.....aspx#page1

jgo| 4.23.12 @ 7:35PM

Whether to cut never needed to be debated.

My question has always been whether the latest bunch of milquetoast semi-Republicans would ever get their acts together enough to even propose reasonable and sufficient cuts in federal government spending.

After the initial round there's bound to be some ground lost*, but for decades, the Reps (think Boehner, even Newt) have conceded all of the ground before the beginning of negotiations.

Sure, maybe we can only cut 75% of the Dept. of Education and 30% of the Dept. of Energy in the first year, 50% of the UN, make the Socialist Insecurity Abomination optional for everyone below the age of 75, but you have to at least give it your energetic best.

reneeca| 4.23.12 @ 10:53PM

With president Obama trying t make more and more give away programs sand promises to people before the election like student loans, where is this money going to come from? It just adds more trillions to the deficit while borrowing from China for the money. This is insanity!

POST American| 4.24.12 @ 2:15AM

------ER

-----------UH

---------------if revenue's a problem, WHY
not simply revoke the TAX FREE status
of the deadly, deadly, deadly sinister,
USURY feuled, EUGENICS mongering
'benny violent' foundations and NGOs?

Even in this, the UNDENIABLE 11th hur
of the CFR--RED China handover, sellout,
TREASON, OCCUPATION and FINAL EUGENICS OP,
this is NEVER mentioned.

That's right----NEVER ----EVER!

----------------HUAC/ NUremberg 2012--------------

ebonystone| 4.24.12 @ 11:03AM

The first step in balancing the budget and cutting spending should be to eliminate COLA in all federal wages, salaries, pensions, and entitlements. If Congress feels there's a need for an increase in any of these, then it can legislate one when that time comes. As it is there are federal retirees who, after 10 years of retirement, are drawing pensions larger than their salaries ever were. I don't know of any private pension plan that includes COLA; government ones shouldn't either.
Likewise with SS and all the entitlements: the amount you get should be the amount you qualified for when you first went on the program.

POST American| 4.24.12 @ 11:39PM

--------------------FINAL WORD-------------------------

---that's right! -----NEVER!

Just Me| 4.25.12 @ 8:42AM

re Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid "devouring the entire budget"... I have a personal experience that leads me to think that people should be held to certain standards before they can access health care -- just like people have to meet certain standards before they can get medicaid, welfare or Social Security benefits. They should not be treated for the conditions they bring upon themsleves by overeating, smoking, alcohol and drugs. Allow me to illustrate. My husband had all the pre-stroke symptoms. He should have known what those symptoms meant because he had a stroke 20 years earlier and before we married. He complained of his many aches and pains, but refused to go to a doctor despite my many entreaties. He also refused to make the lifestyle changes. He wouldn't eat right, wouldn't exercise and wouldn't lose weight. He had diabetes but insisted on eating icecream and Hostess cupcakes. He weighed 275 pounds at 5'10". Finally he had a stroke. He was paralyzed on his left side. He could barely use his right side and had difficulty lifting a spoon to his mouth. He was in diapers. His medical expenses for 6 weeks before he died were astronomical. Medicare & supplemental insurance paid most of it, but not all. He was in 4 different hospitals. Everywhere I went I saw sick fat people (mostly men) who had led careless, unhealthy, dissolute lives. They flooded the emergency rooms, ICU and hospital rooms, getting expensive medical treatment in an often vain attempt to reverse decades of bad habits. Sometimes they got lucky and beat off the Grim Reaper for a few years. Many times they died after a few days, weeks or months of costly medical procedures -- often leaving their families in dire financial straights. As a result of this very personal experience, I think tax-payer medical services should be denied to those with self-inflicted illness that are cause by their self-chosen unhealthy lifestyles. Smoke cigarettes and get lung cancer? Too bad. Don't expect your neighbors to foot the bill. Are you obese and get diabetes and heart disease? Too bad. No tax-payer health care until you lose weight! In fact, I think medical services should be denied to obese people -- unless they want bypass surgery or go to a "fat farm." This would be a great incentive to people to lose weight. Some may think this is a cruel and heartless attitude, but I disagree. The ones who are cruel and heartless are the self-indulgent, undisciplined people who persist in living unhealthy lifestyles that harm themselves, their families and the country.

arnold| 4.25.12 @ 7:03PM

the simplest solution is to end all goverment entitlments now but the gutless wonders will not do it even if they are uncontutional we have reached a point where cas conseratives we need something other than election

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