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The Public Policy
The Mustang Becomes an Obamamobile
The greening of a classic car makes it unrecognizable to drivers.
The Ford Motor Company is giving its Mustang a unique 50th birthday present: death.
Detroit will still market an automobile called the Mustang. It just won’t bear much of a resemblance to the iconic roadster driven by the likes of Lt. Frank Bullitt and James Bond.
Ford’s new “Evos” concept features gull-wing doors, a rounded, aerodynamic body, and a smaller design clearly inspired by Europe. When Ford officially unveils its new Mustang in 2014, company insiders insist it will embrace this visual transformation.
More pertinent than its changing look will be its changing feel. Rumors abound, to the chagrin of drag racers, regarding the introduction of independent rear suspension. The five-liter engine supposedly morphs into a two-liter one. There is even talk of a hybrid Mustang.
Why not a hang-glider F-18?
A 2012 Ford Mustang boasting an eight-cylinder, five-liter engine goes from zero to sixty in less than five seconds. It takes a lot of fuel to generate all that power. The muscle car travels an average of twenty miles for every gallon of gasoline consumed. It’s a performance car, albeit one that performs the way that drivers, rather than bureaucrats, want.
Twenty miles per gallon is considerably less than fifty-six miles to the gallon. That is the 2025 industry fuel-efficiency standard announced by the Obama Administration last year. With automakers having to produce a fleet of cars traveling an average of further than 56 miles per gallon by 2025, and further than 34 miles per gallon by 2016, a Mustang guzzling a gallon of gas every twenty miles would be certain to bring the fleet average below the mandated standard.
“If we’re going to help you, then you’ve got to change your ways,” President Barack Obama said of the Motown Bailout in Cannon Falls, Minnesota last August. “You can’t just make money on SUVs and trucks. There is a place for SUVs and trucks, but as gas prices keep on going up, you have got to understand the market.”
Could it be that the market and the masters disagree?
The market has kept the Ford Mustang on showroom floors for 48 years. One of its few elder siblings in the Ford family, the F-150 truck, has been America’s bestselling automobile for a quarter-century. In fact, every one of the U.S.’s 15 bestselling automobiles moves less than 40 miles per gallon of gasoline.
Recent years have seen the extinction of the Crown Victoria and the Lincoln Town Car. The former’s popularity as a police car and the latter’s status as the sole luxury livery vehicle make Ford’s decision particularly confusing. But when one factors in the demands of regulators, as well as the demands of drivers, the decision makes sense in a senseless kind of way. So Mustang lovers may count their blessings that their dream car is “evolving” rather than ending.
In contrast, Ford has amped up production on the Focus Electric, whose lithium-ion battery can give it 100 miles between chargings. In the first quarter of this year, Ford sold a few dozen Electrics in a nation of 311 million people. The battery-powered Focus has much ground to gain if it is to match the Mustang’s first-year production of 418,812.
Full disclosure: the first car I purchased was a ‘91 Mustang LX. As a 21-year old more familiar with train tokens than crankshafts, I remained ignorant of the car’s reputation as a street racer until similarly sporty cars invariably revved engines at red lights. My lack of interest in turning city streets into the Daytona International Speedway left would-be competitors disappointed. I had bought the car because I liked the way it looked. But Mustang’s reputation left me curious, and with nobody on the roads on a dark morning drive to my Marine Reserve center, I accelerated to 115 miles-per-hour until good sense overcame rash youth. My heart accelerated with the car. Only then did I discover the key to the car’s popularity. Whereas I liked the freedom of the drop-top, most others craved the power of the engine.
The Environmental Protection Agency may prefer Obamamobile Chevy Volts to the high-performance, low-mileage sports cars. But the American public exhibits a clear preference for the latter. Zero-to-sixty in five seconds just feels realer than global warming.
The classic American sports car survived the Pontiac Firebird, OPEC’s oil embargo, and Ford’s '70s-era Mustang II Pinto-like redesign. The Mustang won’t survive Obama.
About the Author
Daniel J. Flynn, the author of The War on Football: Saving America’s Game, blogs at www.flynnfiles.com.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (173) | Leave a comment
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oldfart| 4.20.12 @ 7:17AM
Boring, snooze, yawn
TLP| 4.20.12 @ 10:13AM
I understand the Der Commisar has envisioned bringing back the old Soviet Utopian Zell. It wll be just as reliable as the old ones, but it will use a lot of old leftover Yugo parts, and will run on 1100 Rechargeable D Batteries, subsidized by the Federal Government, and made by whichever Company can lube up its Ass the wettest, and pull its cheeks apart the farthest.
God Bless Amerika.
jiml| 4.23.12 @ 12:00PM
What all these posts speak to
"don't let your elelcted officials grow up to Automotive engineers! Numb nutz Obumbler and his minions don't know what the hell the auto industry is all about. Car Czars, unrealistic CAFE mandates, Politically, ecomnomically we are losing the USA to a fraudulaent us government.
Wake up America!!!
sgthulka| 4.20.12 @ 7:29AM
Easily the most depressing post I'll read this month, although this may be a massive marketing head-fake (please, dear God).
Can anyone say "Mustang II"?
albert constantine jr.| 4.20.12 @ 9:57AM
Having owned a Mustang II in the mid-80s for about 18 months (it only ran about half of that time), that was my thought, as well.
By the way, how are those Hulka Burger Franchises doing?
scotchieguy| 4.20.12 @ 12:10PM
I learned how to drive in a '74 Mustang II. That was my dad's car. He never even test-drove it. It was a dog. My mom, on the other hand, had a '73 Olds 98 with a 455 Rocket V-8. I remember driving home from my night shift at Burger King where I worked for $1.90/hr min. wage at 2:00 AM w/ the speedo buried in that Olds. Guess which car I preferred to drive? BTW, my dad traded in a mint '68 Torino GT with a 390 high performance V-8 (light yellow with black racing stripes and a factory 8-track) in for that piece of sh-t Mustang.
albert constantine jr.| 4.20.12 @ 12:28PM
"my dad traded in a mint '68 Torino GT with a 390 high performance V-8 (light yellow with black racing stripes and a factory 8-track)"
I had the Fairlane 500 fastback version with AM radio only (there was music on AM then, though), but quick accelration on the 390 kept tearing up my motor mounts.
Moe Blotz| 4.21.12 @ 9:45AM
"Burying" a speedometer that only goes to 85 mph is not hard.
scotchieguy| 4.21.12 @ 10:46AM
Nope, 120. You must be very young. It also got about 8 MPG. The eco-freaks cringed.
skip| 4.21.12 @ 2:11PM
I survived the '71 Olds 98 455 rocket V-8 with dual carburetors without ever wearing a seat belt.
Don't know how I did, but I do know that not taking my eyes off the road once the needle rocketed past 110 certainly helped. Honestly, I'm not sure what speed I topped out at with that boat.
Stewed_tomatoes| 4.22.12 @ 1:44PM
Dual fours on a 71 Olds 98? Yeah, okay.
skip| 4.22.12 @ 4:05PM
Is there any possible, conceivable, plausible, credible reason that could possibly, conceivably, plausibly, credibly explain how a '71 Olds 98 455 Rocket V-8 could possibly, conceivably, plausibly, credibly have dual carburetion that you can possibly, conceivably, plausibly, credibly think of?
Stewed_tomatoes| 4.22.12 @ 4:54PM
Whose intake and what carbs. And more to the point, a 98?
skip| 4.22.12 @ 5:33PM
Is that a yes?
Stewed_tomatoes| 4.23.12 @ 8:25AM
Possible, yes. Probable, no. What intake and carbs?
skip| 4.23.12 @ 9:15AM
Conservatives answer yes or no, what with living in actual reality and all. Liberals answer maybe and hedge, what with not wanting to deal with living in actual reality and all.
Yes or no?
Mike Hawk| 4.22.12 @ 10:10AM
In a '73?? Are you sure about that?? All the new plumbing and reduced compression killed performance. I had a '77 Cutlass that actually looked pretty nice, but it was a heavy SOB. Bigger cars were real road barges. I got 23 mpg highway with the 273 V-8 and B/W 5 speed, but around two it couldn't get out of it'sown way. That was the first year the NHTSA mandated wallowing pig detuned American cars hit the streetys an yes the 85 mph speedometer was in them. Cars from '73 on up were generally sucked. So did the rest of that decade of The Jimmuh and Disco.
sgthulka| 4.20.12 @ 2:30PM
I don't think it will happen as Flynn describes.
Per AutoExtremist - http://www.autoextremist.com/
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 4.20.12 @ 7:31AM
Yes, the Mustang is gone. The new proposed vehicle looks like many other cars so an era based on desire of the individual is gone and a new era is dawning where it's what the government wants that's important. Welcome to Hell.
Al Adab| 4.20.12 @ 12:11PM
Wasn't there an old saw about a camel being a horse designed by committee? Welcome to the brave new world of central planning.
Darin| 4.20.12 @ 7:50AM
If Mustang owners wanted a sedan, they'd buy a sedan. Like the muscle cars before it, the Mustang will fade away, yet another victim of the nanny state.
Richard| 4.20.12 @ 7:58AM
Oh, right, the inalienable right to burn gasoline. Must be in the Bill of Rights somewhere. I'm not carrying a torch for Obama's nanny state, but it is possible to enjoy driving and have a car with high mileage. I drive a Volkswagen Jetta sportwagen turbodiesel, and average 40 mpg while dishonoring most eastern state Interstate speed limits. And while having room to carry stuff. The old Mustangs could go straight ahead very fast. They could never corner for shit, like most American muscle cars. Which means, at least to me, they didn't DRIVE well. Why not speculate that Ford, the one automaker that did not accept a bailout, might just be developing its own - perhaps even "free market" - plan for the future for its iconic product. But, no, that would run counter to the Right Wing Narrative.
Frank Drackman| 4.20.12 @ 8:15AM
Its the Internets, so you can say anythang, like your Penis is 17 inches long..
How much has your Jetta cost in repairs/maintenance the last 3 years?
And how much did it cost you new/used?
And yes, that $1,000 wheel you had to replace when you went over a pothole my Crown Vic wouldn't even notice counts.
Frank
albert constantine jr.| 4.20.12 @ 11:52AM
Doctor;
I recall a Mad magazine parody ad in the early 70s for the VW bug that was aimed at Klansmen, suggesting that since the models were largely indistinguishable from one another, it offered a degree of anonymity for the concerned church/synagogue bomber. The slogan was "Burn and pillage like Hitler, in the car that Hitler invented.
Moe Blotz| 4.21.12 @ 9:50AM
MAD magazine also ran an advert where Ted Kennedy was standing in a pool with his arms extended out to his sides and in the background a floating VW Beetle. The caption read," If Ted Kennedy had been driving a Volkswagen, Mary Jo would still be alive." The Vee-dub could float for a few minutes rather than sink like an Olds.
albert constantine jr.| 4.21.12 @ 10:43PM
I believe that was National Lampoon (circa 1976-80 or so), following the actual floating VW ad, and it was sloganed "If Ted Kennedy drove a Volkswagen, he'd be President today".
2Anglico| 4.20.12 @ 9:56AM
See Dick, it is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS WHAT ANYONE ELSE DRIVES!
There is an ABSOLUTE right "NOT TO LISTEN", especially to people like you.
VW Jetta, LMAO!
wally| 4.20.12 @ 10:43AM
Hear Hear !
Dustoff| 4.20.12 @ 11:59AM
BINGO!
Dick, may I call you dick. We pay for the car, insurrance and fuel. You don't.
So stop your lib crying.
Drunken Sailor| 4.20.12 @ 3:25PM
I thought only girls drove the VW Jetta?
Skippy| 4.21.12 @ 4:04PM
You thought right.
albert constantine jr.| 4.20.12 @ 10:05AM
To the presciently named Richard;
I found your post chock full of interesting points up until you gave yourself away with “right wing narrative”.
By the way, while I don’t fancy myself an expert on free markets, they generally consist of producers and consumers. If the consumers don’t desire a product, it fails. If a producer can’t offer a product consumers desire because government imposed CAFÉ fleet standards prohibit it, the market is not free.
Ground Control| 4.20.12 @ 10:58AM
In regards to the "inalienable right to burn gasoline" ("Must be in the Bill fo Rights Somewhere") Tjhis betrays a government centric mindset. Rights come from government. Right. Sure.
Now show me that part of the Constitution that delegates power to the government to decide what car I drive. How much fuel it uses. How fast it goes. The Mustang is threatened by CAFE, the arbitrary, completely unscientific, means of government limiting the variety of cars availble to the buying public. The real problem we have is government, not 20 MPG cars. Sidebar: a performance car of the 1960's had a bigger engine, got about 12-14 MPG, didn't handle well, and needed lots of maintenance. Not to mention pollution. Today's Mustang gets 20 MPG (V6 models get more) have as much or more horsepower, handle beautifully, are extremely reliable, and produce 95% (or better) LESS pollution. When will government be satisfied? When will government stop messing with cars? When will mileage be good enough for bureaucrats? Why do we elect busy-body jackasses to government anyway? Fortunately, there are enough used cars without President Bozo's imprimitur to last well beyond my lifetime.
scotchieguy| 4.20.12 @ 12:17PM
If I had to guess, I would say our president never even got his driver's license. At least Bubba was a true American, and genuinely seemed to like having a good time, even though he installed astro-turf in that redneck-mobile. Even LBJ liked to jump in his Lincoln and scare the sh-t out of foreign heads of state driving like a complete maniac. I think Obama's choice of vehicle would be a red tricycle with the little stringers dangling from the handle bars. Hell he would even need training wheels!
tdiinva| 4.20.12 @ 11:06AM
As a plankholder of the vast rightwing conspiracy I am going to go both ways with this one. Through 2010, the Jetta TDI, or any Jetta for that matter, is hoot to drive. I will go head to head with my underpowered 2005 TDI any Mustang on a mountain road. I can also get a reckless charge on any hghway in America with my top speed of 111 mph. However, there is nothing like the experience of the F-15 like acceleration of a high end performance car like a Porche, Charger SRT8, Camero or a Mustang. That's why I have a car that get great fuel economy and a rocketship.
While think 2.0 TDI is a great car it no longer gets the fuel economy that makes it worthwhile to own. My 2005 can get in the mid 50s if I drive it easy.
StanO| 4.20.12 @ 11:58AM
Don't be fooled the days of Mustangs being straight ahead racer is long gone. Read any of the Car & Driver type mags and while they are no Porsche, they handle much much better than the used too. A quick glance at Motor Trend shows that the Boss Mustang has a better skidpad rating than the Jetta. Not to discount the Jetta, just pointing out that Ford has raised expectations quite a bit.
tdiinva| 4.20.12 @ 2:48PM
Slalom speed is a better indication of handling. Lateral G is more about corning maximum speed in cornering.
You should be comparing a standard mustang to a sedan, not a high performance version. A better comparision would be a Golf GTI to the Boss.
The Bruce| 4.20.12 @ 12:46PM
Dick,
Sorry, but I can't get the words "VW Jetta sportwagen turbodiesel" through my head without laughing.
Sportwagen... BAHHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Cloudbuster | 4.20.12 @ 2:16PM
Jetta *snicker* "sportwagen" *snicker*
sgthulka| 4.20.12 @ 2:37PM
If I chose, as a God-fearing, tax-paying citizen of the still somewhat free United States, to pour gasoline that I have purchased, into a pit and set it on fire, then by-God I will do so.
And no sum-bitch will tell me otherwise.
The Road Warrior| 4.20.12 @ 4:52PM
"Volkswagon" translates as "The people's car."
Industrial spawn of the German "National SOCIALIST" state (ever heard of it?).
Still in business after 70 years thanks to continuing German government subsidies.
Need I say more?
UpChuck.Liberals| 4.23.12 @ 12:22PM
@Richard:"Oh, right, the inalienable right to burn gasoline. Must be in the Bill of Rights somewhere. "
Yep is it, 'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.' I'm not happy if my life and liberty are what some whack job says they can be. Sounds a bit like a dictator or a 'progressive, liberal, socialist'. I'm quite happy in my life with the liberty to have a car that will corner at .93g and do 140.
Appleby| 4.20.12 @ 8:01AM
Just buy one before Obama destroys the brand, and drive it in spite of Obama. Wear a Mustang T-Shirt that says "I yield to no Nanny!" and on the back "Excuse My Dust." Start big Show and Shine gatherings where people with muscle cars gather and put on the signs "Show up and see the cars that make Obama cry!" [In Canada change that to "David Suzuki"]
Above all, don't buy the ruined imitation "Mustang" and tell the dealer why you'll never buy one. Do not surrender to Nanny!
Red Bubba| 4.20.12 @ 9:18AM
They did this once before. In the mid 70's they passed off a dressed up Pinto as a Mustang. It didn't work.
JimH| 4.20.12 @ 9:23AM
The Mustang is returning to it's roots as a sheep in wolf's clothing. The original was a rebodied Falcon.
Peter Malinchoc| 4.20.12 @ 9:42AM
Yeah Jim, and Porsche started out as a rebodied VW with performance parts. What's your point? So the 'stang started out a rebodied Falcon. But it rapidly distanced itself from its roots on the racetracks, drag strips, and streets of America.
As for gov't mandates on fuel economy. There is simply no way to currently build a car that is quick, efficient (54mpg), and fun to drive (exciting). You can have two of these, but not all three.
JimH| 4.20.12 @ 11:21AM
Yeah physics is b**h. O I lusted after a Shelby Cobra or Boss 429 when I was a kid. I certainly agree that the government ought not to be in the car design business. I guess my point was that the builders are quite capable making a crappy car without government help.
Dustoff| 4.20.12 @ 12:02PM
Mustang II or Bronco II.
DRA2010| 4.22.12 @ 8:59PM
Actually, while they were BOTH designed by Hitler's favourite designer (Dr. Ferdinand Porsche) it was the 1938 "Volk's Wagon" that looked like a shortened version of his 1937 Wanderer W25K Sports Roadster, not the other way around (much like a modern kitcar has a Porsche skin mounted on a stretched VW chassis). Certainly the mechanicals had little in common - the VW had a meek, air-cooled 4-cyl, 1.1L engine just producing 25BHp, where the Roadster was equipped with a 6-cyl, 2.0L supercharged Monster!
Of course you are right about the laws of physics as applied to car design, but for me, my favourite auto was the Opel GT that was built in Germany in the early 1970s. I could easily (and safely, due to its GREAT handling) take it up to 210kph (130mph) - its "red-line" was actually 260 kph (160mph). At more sedate speeds, I routinely got 11kml (26mpg). I would think that after 40 years of refinements, that a modern engine could go even farther on a litre of benzine!
scotchieguy| 4.20.12 @ 1:53PM
Yeah, and the Stones started off as a cheap blues band with wimply sounding guitar solos recorded in mono. Then '68 changed everything where Keef literally changed the way the electric guitar was played. Funny, that was around the time the Mustang started rocking the world. It was a good year for cars and music. And revolution. Oh oh, history likes to repeat itself.
Stewed_tomatoes| 4.22.12 @ 4:59PM
In April 1964, Ford offered a gussied up Falcon for sale. Turned out to be marketing genius. BTW, the Mustang II sold really well. IIRC, 400,000 plus units per year. Ford would kill to move that number of Mustangs today.
Old Soldier| 4.20.12 @ 9:39AM
About time they fixed the terrible suspension. I hope they keep a sports car.
albert constantine jr.| 4.20.12 @ 10:10AM
When I saw the headline and photo, I thought this was an Eric Peters article. As I read the article, I went back and checked that it was actually authored by Mr. Flynn, whom I heretofore had been unaware had served in the SMCR.
I learn something new just about every day at TAS/Amspecblog. Semper Fi, Mr. Flynn.
Brian72| 4.20.12 @ 10:10AM
Heresy. The Pontiac Firebird is an icon of American Culture. Thanks to American aftermarket industry, you can build yourself one hell of a pro tourer with modern Corvette gear under the classic screaming chicken. Perfect way to "flip the bird" at the enviromaniacs. lol
albert constantine jr.| 4.20.12 @ 11:54AM
An automotive icon, as demonstrated on Friday evenings (and Saturdays for awhile, plus eternity in syndication) from 1974-80 by Mr. Rockford.
SC Mike| 4.20.12 @ 10:40AM
The Mustang II was bad enough, but Ford almost made a bigger booboo: the Probe was supposed to be the next generation Mustang until Mustang loyalists raised a big stink. The notion of a front-wheel drive pony car was sacrilegious.
RichTex| 4.20.12 @ 1:29PM
Now, don’t denigrate the Probe. I had an ’89 Probe GT, with the turbocharged 4 and a stick shift. It certainly was not a Mustang, and Ford would have made a grievous error is trying to replace with Mustang with it, but it really was a fine car in its own right and gave me over 100,000 miles. It was basically a modified Mazda MX-6 which also wasn’t a bad car, but maybe I was partial to Mazdas at the time since my previous car was an ’81 RX-7.
One of my roommates in law school had a ’66 Mustang, but it had a 6 and a 3-speed stick; not exactly a muscle car. However, my aunt later had a Mustang II with the V-8. (She was in her mid-80’s at the time.) I only drove either of these two cars a couple times, but the Mustang II could be a handful. Since the Mustang managed to survive the Mustang II, I think it can survive the upcoming one. That is, if any of us can survive the Obama regime.
BTW, I now drive a Pontiac G8 GT, with the big V-8. Every time I drive it, I fell like I’m thumbing my nose at Obama and the assorted petite fuehrers who are his homeboys.
Moe Blotz| 4.21.12 @ 9:56AM
The Probe failed because women would not buy it.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 10:40AM
Time to grind a sacred cow.
I've said this before and I'm saying it again: Most people drive because they HAVE TO. They HAVE TO drive to work. They HAVE TO drive to buy groceries. They HAVE TO drive to visit friends or go most places.
Once you democratize something, whether it's a society or transportation paradigm, you reduce it to the lowest common denominator. If you wanted "free market" cars with wide roads and gas guzzling sport cars and bureaucrats off your butt, you should have asked that taxpayer money go to efficient public transit to get the bad or commuter drivers off of the road rather than so-called free market having auto corporate interests largely kill public transit and use socialism (taxpayer money) to build lots and lots of roads.
Now you're stuck with the results.
The DEMOCRACY is speaking and most people WANT fuel efficient vehicles, reduction of dependence upon foreign oil, and if GPS self-driving cars become available, most won't mind that either since it will relieve them of white-knuckled commutes and allow them to read or relax while on the road.
In addition, gasoline is clearly a FINITE resource, like, fresh drinking water. It's interesting that the same guys who love big muscle cars that burn a lot of gas also are like Hank Hill and dumping a million gallons of water on their lawn in the desert.
This isn't the 1950's anymore. Get over it.
wally| 4.20.12 @ 10:47AM
Wrong, Watson. Most people WANT whatever car the damn well please, and the Govt has no business even being in the equation.
And gasoline is NOT a FINITE resource. We have more reserves of oil today then we had twenty years ago. Not running out anytime in this milennia...
2Anglico| 4.20.12 @ 11:07AM
Wally, exactly correct.
To Polish Knight, most Americans DO NOT want to be cooped up with smelly strangers on a choo-choo. And personally, I LOVE TO DRIVE. I lost count but I'm sure I have MILLIONS of miles experience.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 11:49AM
If you ask most Americans what they WANT, they all want cheap healthcare, cheap stuff in the stores (but not made in China), big houses in the suburbs that take a small refinery to heat and power, no drilling and frakking in THEIR backyard and big roads to commute back and forth to the cities.
Thanks to the "free market" and the commons, we have a cultural equivalent of Easter Island: A blown up housing bubble which is sucking up billions in Fed money to prop up, dependency upon foreign oil, and massive traffic congestion on crumbling roads.
I lived in Europe for some time (including Eastern Europe) and the trains were sometimes smelly but usually a pleasure to ride in. They connected with fast trams and busses that made driving seem inconvenient by comparison. Of course, people had a different cultural standard there and due to our car centric culture, most of the people on public transportation here are crazy and smelly and drive away normal customers.
And driving can be pretty smelly as well. Ever stuck on a freeway surrounded by hundreds of cars belching fumes into the air?
Dustoff| 4.20.12 @ 12:05PM
Yeah I lived in EU too. Big deal. Cramped homes, cramped cars.. even though they do own a bunch of big ones.
Trains that can't run with-out heavy taxpayer funds.
Plus I just love it when they jerks go on strike. Then tell us about your foolish trains!
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 12:44PM
NYC apartments aren't spacious either. Many people in the states, thank to the real estate bubble, are not living much better. Also, our economy sucks and this was the case BEFORE Obama.
So going to Europe, it's rather neat to see people well dressed, exercising (not obese), have unique culture, and take off a month of vacation time. Yes, there are plenty of downsides but the USA is a mess. The left's goal was to make the USA suck and the elitists such as McCain looked the other way while lining their pockets so now it's hard to preach how great free market capitalism is when the business model is India and China.
wally| 4.20.12 @ 12:56PM
You are wrong on so many points its not worth even talking about. But, if you are so in love with the Eurotrash, I am sure they will consider your immigration application with all due speed....
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 2:16PM
I've thought about it Wally and if I had found the work, I'd have left.
Referring to Europe as Eurotrash reminds me of Constantinople in the 15th century: In an us vs the world, the world is going to win unless you have a really, really good case.
Driving gas guzzlers relying on foreign oil just doesn't sound like something that's going to win that kind of war.
wally| 4.20.12 @ 2:34PM
But we have a really, really good case. The greatest case in the history of the world. Tarnished a bit by the nits currently occupying the White House.
I am surprised a progressive thinker like yourself has not been able to find work in the EU. Why is that, you think? Could it be that their entire economy is in the shitter despite the go carts they drive? You simply MUST redouble your efforts. They NEED you there.
Conservative Bob| 4.20.12 @ 1:20PM
PK
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way back to the EU my friend pick anyone one of those wonderful places and free yourself from all that is bad here.
Please write when you get settled.
Had a 59 Olds convertible. 396 with a 4 speed Hyydro. lousy off the line but in a half mile or more I used to eat 'stangs for lunch.
Later built a 78 Camaro with my son and we took it to the drag strip often.. smokin tires raw power unleashed pure fun...
All these sub compact jelly beans no style no heart. Can't get more than 2 adults and 2 small children in them and in a wreck you die. Let the market decide. The Government screws up everything it touches.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 2:12PM
Who made the roads?
wally| 4.20.12 @ 2:45PM
Some fat politician broad from Massachusetts, I think.
Conservative Bob| 4.20.12 @ 2:51PM
Is your point that road construction is an efficient effort of the government?
Road/Highway construction has long been a source of corruption at every level, but predominantly at the state and local level... Gas taxes, which were supposed to be for road construction and upkeep, are now wasted on a host of unrelated activities. It was found to be a good source of ongoing revenue...
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 3:23PM
I never said road construction was an efficient effort of the government. I was just pointing out that it's a government program that requires social redistribution of funds.
While gas taxes have been diverted, keep in mind that other money comes in for road construction via state and local taxes elsewhere and the federal highways fund. The ultimate "Obama" style program by a Republican! Eisenhower!
Appleby| 4.20.12 @ 10:54PM
In fact the Interstate Highway System was built to provide escape routes from the looming World War III when the Russians were going to bomb us back to the Stone Age, and Ike decided we needed better ways to get the hell out of Dodge. This was a military program, EuroMan; it fell properly under the jurisdiction of the government.
Telling me where my kids have to sit in the car and whether or not I can drive something bigger than a hat box falls under the "busybody" rubric and is not enumerated in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.
Moe Blotz| 4.21.12 @ 10:07AM
General Eisenhower was impressed with the way the Germans moved their materiel about on their autobahns during WW II and decided we could build a better highway system at home in the USA. Hence the name "National Interstate Defense and Commerce Highway System". President Eisenhower envisioned the US Army moving 100,000 pound tanks across country to defend our shores as well as large trucks hauling goods to market. Now we have millions of automobiles clogging the interstate highways and they are driven by people who think the trucks are out there to get in their way.
MikeBee| 4.20.12 @ 10:11PM
PK,
We the people did. We the people decide. If we don't like what government does, we change it. Period. Look at what happened in Michigan. For years, motorcyclists had to wear helmets, per MI law. Now, the new governor is going to sign legislation which says they don' t have to. The people are not up in arms about this, and it will stand, until someone sees a reason to bring helmets back at some point in the future, which may be never.
Bunky| 4.21.12 @ 8:27AM
Who paid for the roads?
scotchieguy| 4.21.12 @ 10:50AM
Private corporations HIRED by the govt. What is your point?
Sam1427| 4.20.12 @ 11:43PM
I saw one of those tiny two seater people movers next to a semi rig the other day. The "car" was smaller than the big rig's front tire. After an accident, there wouldn't be enough left of the driver and passenger to scrape off the road. Nobody will ever get me into one of those nasty little things!
Give me a Shelby Cobra, a 'Vette, or even a Chevelle SS with a V-8, gotta do the aftermarket improvements on them tho.
Ground Control| 4.20.12 @ 11:09AM
Correct you are. Shortages are constructs of government. There is plenty of water and plenty of oil. We are dependent on foreign sources because of government. As for "socialist" roads, roads have been public since roads were invented. As long as government sticks to keeping the roads open and maintained, there is no problem. To call this "socialism" is ludicrous. Socialism is based not only on government "ownership" but on government being an entity unto itself. In America, government is created by the People as our servant. In "socialist" states, government is perpetual and omnipotent, government is inherently empowered, and stands alone separate from the people. In "socialist" states, the people are servants to government. In America, WE are the government. Unfortunately, "WE" keep electing morons to run things and the result is artificial shortages, a failing economy, obscene taxes, and the stupidest man in America in the White House.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 11:59AM
"Shortages are constructs of government."
These are the kinds of statements that make socialism seem rational by comparison. Shortages are a natural, and the best, function of the free market system. It creates a need that entrepreneurs then fill. And sometimes they are simply inevitable. There simply isn't an unlimited amount of fresh water to dump on lawns in California and Nevada.
"roads have been public since roads were invented"
Wrong. There are plenty of private toll roads out there and toll roads have also been around since they were invented. They were part of the original form of taxation (making merchants pay to use them.) And the original Autobahn was funded by national socialism. In any case, big government is sure nice when it's making others pay for your roads.
If you think that driving makes you so free of evil socialism, just try flipping off a cop while your seat belts are unfastened and saying that you shouldn't have to pay taxes for "public" roads...
Ground Control| 4.20.12 @ 12:39PM
I didn't say there were no private roads. Clearly there are. But public roads have been around at least since the Via Appia of Rome and well before.
And shortages ARE constructs of government. Look at any 3rd World country. There is plenty of food and farm land, but people starve. (Zimbabwe, formerly Rhodesia, is a perfect example.) NOT because of natural shortages, but because their own governments keep them that way. Shortages mean control which means power, and government types are obsessive about power, that's why they are in government. It takes a true leftist to disparage the obvious.
Truth is, there is plenty of energy to go around, there is plenty of food to go around, there is plenty of water to go around (3/4 of the World is covered in water, and it CAN be made fresh through technology). People starve because of government, gas prices are high and oil supplies are restricted because of government. This is the way it is. Government was originally created millenia ago specifically to control resources, not to distribute fairly and equitably, but to use artificial shortages to control people. This goes back at least as far as the Egyptians 3-4 thousand years ago. That you believe they don't do it now if laughably naive.
And, in true leftist form, you apply a straw man argument to prove, well, nothing at all. No one said we don't want to pay taxes. I willingly pay taxes for the roads (your ridiculous implication that I don't pay taxes for roads notwithstanding), but most of my tax money goes to things other than roads, such as welfare, food stamps, section 8 housing, corporate subsidies, Solyndra, etc... adfinitum, ad nauseum.
Again, socialism is government OWNERSHIP, not government MANAGEMENT. There is a hugh difference that socialists are blind to. Your leftist handlers think that by using the word "socialist" for things like roads that it will make Americans more comfortable with the idea of socialism in general. And of course, you parrot what you've been told. It doesn't work. Try actually thinking for a change.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 12:48PM
I'm not handled by leftists. Roads are a nice government program that you like so you want to rationalize it. Great. Social Security has been around for 80 years so that must mean it's not socialism anymore. Just wait long enough, and free healthcare will not be "socialist".
Stammon| 4.20.12 @ 1:18PM
The carb's in the dip tank. My 1/4 mile drive way is paved, the platte road to my farm is gravel. I am too far outside of city limits to get that platte road paved, but I still pay taxes on it. Obama care will cost me, but like my road, I won't be able to get it paved.
jond| 4.22.12 @ 5:19PM
"...and free healthcare will not be 'socialist.'" There is no free lunch and "free" healthcare is an illusion proped up by pandering politicians. How many other misrepresentations of reality have been produced by a Congress that was urged by its pre 2010 leadership "to pass it so we can read what's in it" Talk about putting the cart before the horse!
scotchieguy| 4.21.12 @ 10:54AM
I always thought socialism was govt-management, and communism was govt ownership. Socialism was supposed to inevitably lead to communism. I agreed with your other points on govt created shortages.
Ground Control| 4.21.12 @ 11:53AM
One thing I am really tired of hearing is the notion that roads are public therefore we are all socialists now. This is horse manure. Socialism is not and never has been an economic system. It is a POLITICAL system of tyrrany and oppression.
There will always be differing opinions of what is or is not "socialism", and this is intentional. It obfuscates the real issue: government is inherently corrupt and inherently inefficient. Having the government manage things like roads is moderately inefficient but acceptable to most people. And since WE the People are the government in the USA (at least legally), we choose to own and operate public roads. However, when government owns or controls all parts of the economy, controls wages, earnings, investments, determines what products to make and who may or must buy them, THAT becomes socialism, and the government becomes a defacto autonomous entity, and no longer "of the people, by the people, and for the people." Socialism is based on the notion of centralized planning, that a government bureaucrat can better determine how you shall live than you can, that government can better grow food than farmers, that government can better make cars than car companies. That is, an insulated government flack, with no education or training in a particular field whatsoever, can better plan a business than the people who have been educated in that business, and have great experience in that business. In other words, the EPA can design better cars than the engineers and technicians and artists who actually make up a car company.
That this fatuous nonsense is even believed by some people is shocking enough. That it is in fact US Government POLICY is beyond belief. The Soviet Union tried a series of "plans" for government seizing and controlling even the most minute aspects of farming. The result was millions of people starving to death in artificial, government created famines. Socialists think they in their better judgement can order production and prices, and the results will always be good, because THEY ordered it after all! This is why President Bozo thinks he can "order" the success of solar power systems (Solyndra) and it will be successful, and he can "order" electric cars (Volt) and they too will be successful. That there are market forces, such as millions of people making billions of decisions every day for their OWN benefit, that will determine success or failure, is lost on bozo-crats like the President.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 11:38AM
Unless oil is abiotic, there is a finite supply of it even if the oil industry is getting better at finding it. If you find a quarter under your couch you didn't see a month ago, that doesn't mean that quarters are magically appearing out of nowhere in your house! Seriously, not running out of "gasoline" anytime in this "milennia"? Seriously? Based upon the growth of the Asian market and current reserves, maybe a century or so at most of gasoline. Perhaps two centuries of natural gas. Then that's it. And that's optimistic. Eventually, the 1950's will come to an end and the gasoline powered mustangs will either go into museums or up on blocks in the front yards of depreciating neighborhoods...
In addition, thanks to capitalism's marvelous reputation of voluntary environmentalism they are suspicious of frakking. I think they are irrational in many ways (such as saying the oil companies fix prices which are set globally even by Obama's own rhetoric to justify not drilling) but that's the way it is. Deal with it.
Dustoff| 4.20.12 @ 12:07PM
Sure PK.
How long have we lived with PEAK-OIL.
Still waiting for that day.
wally| 4.20.12 @ 1:03PM
It is not a fossil fuel. The Earth manufactures it. Hence, it keeps returning to previously 'empty' fields; it occurs in great quantity where there was never any substantial amount of prehistoric biomass. You really are dumb...' seriously'.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 2:37PM
Abiotic oil is controversial and not mainstream and this is with geologists and not the global warming crowd.
But sure, if abiotic oil was real then our wonderful, ethical oil companies should now be pumping that stuff up all over the place. Why aren't they?
wally| 4.20.12 @ 3:17PM
They are.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 3:19PM
If you mean that existing wells are REALLY abiotic wells or that reopened ones are "replenished" abiotic wells, that's a specious claim. I'm talking about seeing a ton of abiotic oil flooding the market and driving down prices.
Where is it?
Sam1427| 4.20.12 @ 11:46PM
Allow me to butt in here: Salazar isn't giving out drilling permits per his boss's instructions. It's that simple.
MikeBee| 4.20.12 @ 11:13AM
PK,
Love your posts, usually. But, the claim that gasoline is a finite resource simply buys into the lies of the Left. They believe this. However, oil has been created by Nature, just like corn is, and continues to be created by Nature. Oil is a replenishable natural resource. We use it; the Earth keeps replacing it, as rain water passes through miles of carbon-based substances. It's time for this myth of the Left to be exposed.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 11:42AM
I'm familiar with the theory of abiotic oil but it's still a theory at this point time in time.
Let's try this on for size though: Let's say abiotic oil is real. Why haven't the oil companies, which have a lot of smart people working for them, found it then? Why haven't they drilled a deep enough well to get it? Three possibilities:
1) They're either refusing to do so in order to artificially stimulate prices which makes the left and the myth of "evil capitalism" correct.
2) It's not feasible at this time with our current technologies which means we have to deal with what we have: Let's natural gas and shale oil but a political nightmare and expensive to extract.
3) The oil companies themselves don't believe the theory.
LiveFreeOrDie| 4.20.12 @ 11:48AM
I'm inclined to consider it. The very old theory that oil is entirely composed of nothing but long-dead dinosaurs is lacking.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 12:01PM
Dinosaur oil is a misnomer similar to images of cavemen running around with dinosaurs. The theory is that fossil fuels are a product of compressed ocean sediment and other low level plants and small animals (plankton, etc.) over several millions of years.
Stammon| 4.20.12 @ 12:08PM
I love the term; "Dino Blood". But then my wife says I can't be taken anywhere.
Who cares if it's renewable or not, we have it, let's use it. For the next 200 years at least.
Mike Hawk| 4.20.12 @ 2:15PM
Oil percolates up from the hot mantle into pockets we drill into. I'll ask you, why is there so much oil around fracture zones?? Prior to the 1950s nobody believesd in plate tectonics. Why is it that analysis shows the elements making up petroleum are not the same inorigen as a biogenic element of the same. More and more analysis proves that oil is abiogenic and is indeed a renewable gift from Gaia.
THKrupp| 4.20.12 @ 4:09PM
I not an expert on abiotic oil theory but I had believed it was an old discarded theory developed in the Soviet Union?
LiveFreeOrDie| 4.20.12 @ 11:44AM
"...most people WANT fuel efficient vehicles..."
Over 20 years ago you could purchase a Geo Metro or the equivalent Suzuki model and achieve an advertised 54 MPG, all for under 10 grand. You likely didn't know that every gain in efficiency has been used to gain more power! What most people want is power. The auto industry knows this and have responded to the market, instead of the whims of know-nothing, bumbling, hack politicians. Sorry you're confused but if YOU want to drive a fuel efficient car YOU have the freedom to do so. Stop trying to justify denying my choice.
Stammon| 4.20.12 @ 12:18PM
Here we go!
I cannot drive a fuel efficient car. I commute 37 miles through Kentucky to my job. Since November last year I have hit 4 deer with my Volvo, (yes a volvo, I know, shut up, it's a 140 mph all wheel drive station wagon). These deer have destroyed my car, it's now an ugly crumpled beast but I am still alive. A peanut car and I would be dead. The last deer bounced off my windshield, that's bounced! I would love to get 40+ mpg, I do not have that option.
I fixed that volvo after the first 2 deer, I am not willing to do that again, the insurance is too high. I am thinking of putting a snow plow on the front of my suburban, and aiming for the bastards.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 12:27PM
So move closer to your job then.
I have a "free market" solution for these suburban McMansions: Cut federal highway funds, cut funding for freddie mac and fannie mae to prop up the housing market, cut the mortgage interest deduction and cut ALL, repeat, ALL foreign aid for the Middle East and military intervention
Then let the "free market" go to work.
Stammon| 4.20.12 @ 12:37PM
I could, and relocate my children, my wife and my FARM! What do you think happens here in the Midwest? That we choose those nice McMansions so we can live in a tony atmosphere? As I write this, my fields are being disked and I am 4 hours from going into night shift. Let me tell you something you suburbanite peon, this is a BIG country, and if you get out of the city you might learn something.
What other stupid shyt do you have to say?
Stammon| 4.20.12 @ 12:43PM
Oh yes, and hear this, my neighbor hit a deer the other day with his truck going downtown. That's 5 miles. The deer jumped and came through his windshield. He is ok, thank God. Welcome to the Midwest.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 2:32PM
Stammon, some people in rural areas need the big trucks and cars to haul farm equipment, gravel, etc. That's a special case. Keep in mind that I'm referring to the suburban muscle car guys who want to feel maucho and free from the government while they drive on taxpayer subsidized roads and carefully obey all the road signs or risk getting a ticket. I know a lot of these guys that drive an hour a day from a suburb, or exa-burb, to a city job and sit in traffic burning up tons of gas so they can have a big, cheap house. It's wasteful and inefficient and I daresay... cowardly.
Instead of confronting desegration during the 60's and 70's, they fleed for the suburbs and gave the left a significant victory AND domain over the cities and universities and seats of government. They fight like Frenchmen.
JmsA| 4.22.12 @ 3:55AM
Sounds to me like it's time to go deer hunting.
Cloudbuster | 4.20.12 @ 2:30PM
Likewise. I live on a small ranch. It would be literally impossible for me to ranch without the equivalent of my F-150 or bigger -- to haul feed, supplies, pull horse and stock trailers, etc. In fact, the F-150 is kind of on the small side. I'm looking at upgrading to an F-250 or F-350 at some point to be able to pull a gooseneck stock trailer.
I used to own an old GMC 2500 with a 6.2 liter diesel. That thing was a beast. Would definitely consider going for a big diesel again.
My opinion is that whether oil renews itself or not, it's here, we might as well make the best use we can out of it while we have it. Just use it at the rate we need it, and when we really, actually start running out, other fuel alternatives will, naturally, by dint of real market forces, not subsidies and mandates, become attractive.
High efficiency vehicles will also become attractive and profitable naturally according to market forces -- there's absolutely no need for the government to set these standards. They could completely abolish fuel efficiency requirements, and what would happen? The people who can't afford to drive around a muscle car ... won't. They'll happily opt for that 56mpg econobox. The people who need or want and can afford that 455cu.in. hemi turbo will buy it, as long as there's enough of them to support the market. The auto companies will make whatever their customers want. No problem.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 4:20PM
While it's highly likely that by the time oil reserves totally run out, even if they're dino blood, that solar, nuclear, or CNG will be in place (most likely the latter!), it isn't a guarantee. Just because there's a market need doesn't mean that the wise market will provide it. Instead, as the supply runs out, the price of the commodity will go up and this is already happening and it is having a disproportionate effect on working class suburban commuters, rural communities, and the prices of transported goods.
As Machiavelli pointed out, people vote based upon their stomachs or in this case gas tanks. The ultimately free market system in place is the one that will take place this November.
THKrupp| 4.20.12 @ 4:25PM
No offense but I had always considered Volvos to be fuel efficient.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 12:24PM
When you drive on the socialist autobahn, then the socialist government can start dictating all kinds of things including wearing your seat belts, standards on their, er, your car, etc. I've heard about a policeman threaten to cite a driver for having fuzzy dice on his rear view mirror.
This claim for power is nonsense. How many detroit or even German "power" cars do you see in a modern parking lot? And yes, gas sipping cars started to sell during the 70's and beyond and it was Detroit lobbying to try to set a quota on imports. Gotta love that "free market".
LiveFreeOrDie| 4.20.12 @ 3:10PM
"The claim for power is nonsense."
Except it's a plain and simple fact which is easy enough to verify. It's nobody's fault if you're too dense to look it up or obtuse to accept it.
Follow your anti-freedom argument about efficiency to it's conclusion and that is where you will find the nonsense. You have no problem with the federal government forcing people to drive whatever kind of car YOU think is appropriate? You don't deserve the freedom you enjoy at my expense.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 3:18PM
Clearly, I was referring to power in the sense of a desire of most people for power cars. The big factors nowadays are reliability, MPG/cost of ownership, safety, and perhaps status. But the power days are so over.
Ground Control| 4.21.12 @ 12:14PM
"But the power days are so over."
This is ludicrous. Look at a few actual facts. Several years ago, Nissan reintroduced the "Z" car, the 350 Z. And it was a big hit. Today it is the 370 Z. "350" refers to it engine, a 3.5L V6. That engine is now 3.7L. Why? Because drivers want MORE POWER! The Mustang went from 429 CID in the 1960's, to 302 CID (4.9L or officially a "5.0L") through the early 1990's. Then it went to 4.6L (281 CID). Today, the Mustang has a new engine and it is, SHAZZAMM! FIVE LITERS! Why? Because drivers want MORE POWER! A 1990's and early 2000's BMW sedans had 2.5L to 3.5L I-6 engines. Now that same series of car sports a 4.4L V8 in addition to the I-6's which are still available. I could go on, but you get the idea. Power is still available AND desired. Even the Honda Accord sports a 3.5L V6 where once before a 1.8L I-4 was the only engine.
My point is simple. There are lots of people who buy cars and who want power. "Power days" are not over. And that power is available with less pollution and greater efficiency than ever before. We don't need and the People obviously do not want, a government mandated electric car, or CAFE standards to be raised so high that modern cars are purposely unable to meet them. People want to buy the cars that THEY want to buy, and the Federal Government is deliberately trying to force people into cars that the government sees as appropriate. The government can go f*** itself.
Founding Fathers| 4.21.12 @ 2:21PM
Why not let free people enjoying their liberty in a free country decide, instead of a clearly liberal tyrant like you and the totalitarian government you support decide for them?
After all, freedom is a smoky burnout.
dc| 4.20.12 @ 11:50AM
Statist clown: name one "corporate auto interest" that can force any American to buy its product. Now, contrast with our current Mussolinian Leviathan, which has arrogated to itself the power to tell us what such products must look like, how they must function, and to which false gods of gaia they must bow.
And since you assume all right-wingers are cartoon characters, eliminating all of us would be the quickest way to "save" the planet, right, and wouldn't hurt at all. You know what's best for us all, don't you. Thank God for the 2nd Amendment.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 12:33PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.....conspiracy
Ironically, the usually capitalist loving right wing doesn't seem to like Solyndra. How can a PRIVATE CORPORATION be bad and force anyone to buy it's products? Let's raise taxes so we can send more money over to Obama's buddies. It's free market capitalism at it's best!
Regarding eliminating right wingers. It's already being done with the cooperation of illegal immigrant and H1B corporations looking to save a quick buck. Nearly all of them will vote for Obama and demand special preferences. Good for them. I wish we were that smart.
dc| 4.20.12 @ 1:05PM
I expected a buffoonish non-response; thanks for not disappointing. A private company that exists only because of a gubmint program or subsidy is what, in Mussolini's time, was called "parastatale" (roughly in English, "quasi-state"). That's what Solyndra is/was, that's what these hybrid car suppliers are (most of them--there is a niche market amongst urbane leftist assmonkeys like you). Nobody on this site, other than you, supports crony capitalism--it's a perversion. And by the way, you still haven't answered my question. What private company can force a private person to buy its product--obviously, I need to specify for clods like you--without a government gun to both "willing" parties' heads? Answer, or dry up like the pile of old dogshit you are, and blow away in the wind.
Or, take a trip out to our friend Stammon's farm, see how long it takes you to be shot and ground up into animal feed. The only immigrants that threaten "right wingers" are those who DON'T work, not those who do, you drooling fool.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 2:25PM
And there you go, DC, showing that it's not just the left that's intolerant and dogmatic. I see you didn't address my point about General Motors killing mass transit in a solyndra style deal that motorheads loved even as you accused me of a non-response. Socialism is GOOD when it suits you but you attack the messenger. Crony capitalism may be a perversion, but it's also natural and there are plenty of examples of it happening. Try to buy a house with a Realtor (tm). Try to make a copy of a 70 year old Disney movie that should be in the public domain by now. Corporations LOVE socialism.
And hate to break it to you, but most immigrants vote Democrat and favor socialism. But hey, enjoy the big muscle cars while they last and you die off much like the "dino-oil" that they burn...
Cloudbuster | 4.20.12 @ 2:35PM
GM was only able to kill street cars (if the conspiracy is true) in conjunction with the power of government. GM couldn't have forced the cities to scrap their street cars if the city governments hadn't been greedily eager to get in bed with GM.
You can't blame GM for wanting to increase its market share. The only blame goes to the governments who allowed dollar-signs to override good sense (if that's in fact what happened).
Once again, we see that to really screw things up requires government involvement.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 2:44PM
Cloudbuster, you just used what I refer to as the Mike Tyson defense where he said that a woman accusing him of assault clearly had to be lying since only a stupid idiot would go up to his hotel room. It did NOT help his case.
So if you're saying we can't blame GM for wanting to increase their market share via using government to cheat and rob the consumer, then that hardly makes a great case that we should trust such corporations to be moral and not lie about environmental hazards of frakking to increase their bottom line.
In addition, GM and their conspirators also bought up PRIVATELY owned street car lines to dismantle them. So it was possible to do all this without direct government support.
And it doesn't disprove my point that the so-called free-market anti-government muscle car drivers on socialist autobahns are a paradox. What GM and big government give, they can also take away.
Cloudbuster | 4.20.12 @ 2:45PM
I'll correct myself as it looks like in many cases, private transit systems were bought up. I'm pretty neutral on the morality of this -- the transit companies were clearly offered a sum of money that was very attractive to them, and you'd have to find some way to prove that a bus is a less desirable method of public transportation than a streetcar -- it certainly requires less redundant infrastructure.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 3:16PM
You have to keep in mind how public transit works (and by "public" I can include roads).
Imagine if GM decided to go into the tram and train business and slushed some money around to politicians, either on the left or right, to get sections of PUBLIC roads closed that commuters typically use. They could then use a private car to get part of the way on their commute and just buy another car to complete the other half. It's all the _free_ market, right?
Then GM could go up to weakened private toll road owners who have seen traffic decrease and tell them simply: We're going to go after some of your peers and give them a higher rate if they settle now and if you balk us, we'll punish you later. It sure seems like an offer they can't refuse, eh?
Pretty soon, they can leverage their growth into muscling their way around and get what they want. What's interesting is that they use government as a partner and this is even for non so-called socialist agendas. Nobody here is saying that road building is socialist or, gasp, crony capitalistic but there's tons of corruption in that area. Relatives getting advance notice of the best bid price. Diversity quotas for road construction. Crony capitalism and big government socialism go hand in hand. One word: airbus!!!! Ok, another: The Concorde!
Having ridden in a lot of streetcars, they're quite good in a number of ways: Being on rail they are a smoother ride and energy efficient. But keep in mind that what makes them really great are when there's a network of them, like roads, that make them practical. A GM buying just one segment and "breaking" the system can then pick up the rest of the pieces easily.
scotchieguy| 4.20.12 @ 1:58PM
Most people want fuel efficiency? Then, why do so many people drive SUVs?
Mike Hawk| 4.20.12 @ 2:09PM
Because we want to any they are indeed efficient. They also don't crush up like a soda can when hit.
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 2:28PM
What if one SUV hits the other?
So everyone driving tanks doesn't necessarily make the roads safe. It just becomes a kind of cold war.
This morning while parking my bike at the parking garage, I didn't see a single SUV. Nearly all the cars were foreign made and gas sippers and these are not tree hugging hippies.
Cloudbuster | 4.20.12 @ 2:36PM
Well, yippee. All those people could have chosen SUVs and they didn't. The market in action. Yay. So what do we need government control over our choices for?
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 3:07PM
Not entirely Cloudbuster. Ironically, much of the reason why people are driving the gas sippers is because they're cheaper than SUV's where auto manufacturers make more money in profits while simultaneously getting less in tax incentives.
So the question I think you're asking then is: Why bother with MPG standards? Here's why: oil is a finite resource at least for now. In theory, there's abiotic oil or maybe not, but for NOW the supply of oil doesn't match demand sufficiently to keep prices from rising over the rate of inflation.
So it's in the state and public interest to reduce consumption of oil and even for muscle car owners who no doubt want cheaper gas too, right? If we ALL went out and bought muscle cars, wouldn't that be a mess?
I will say that this is just a SMALL part of the puzzle. While the left LOVES conservation (especially for the "little" people while they pal around in private jets), a proper energy policy should also be to drill to the max.
Fair enough?
Al Adab| 4.20.12 @ 3:27PM
PK:
People are going to buy what best suits their needs and wants in a sort of intuitive cost/benefit analysis. A family of five or six will find a SUV fits their needs. A retired coupld might find a small sedan best fits theirs. Shouldn't it all be about choice and options rather than the limits placed by central planners who "know best"?
PolishKnight| 4.20.12 @ 4:17PM
The family could also buy a minivan, of course. Even without unnecessary government regulations, or with them, they still have a choice but just have to pay for them.
My point is that the whole automobile infrastructure that the gearheads worship is about restricting choice: Most people HAVE to buy cars on a practical level. Drivers have to obey hundreds of laws written by central planners daily. For them, driving is not a pleasure but a necessity.
JP| 4.22.12 @ 12:58PM
Try to drive a mini-van where I live. Lake Effect snow can render many roads undrivable without high clearance, large tires, and lots of power. Nothing beats an old Ford Excursion or Suburban in January.
Night Man| 4.20.12 @ 10:44PM
"...they are indeed efficient."
WTF? Seriously?
I drive one. I get 14 mpg city/hwy. 22 highway.
It may be many things, but one thing it ain't is efficient.
I had a Toyota Tercel. Got 32 mpg city/highway. 45 highway. Might have been many bad things, but for sure....efficient as the day was long.
Stammon| 4.20.12 @ 11:00AM
All this isn't going to work for Obama. If we really have that much newly discovered oil and gas underground, the Dems are in trouble. People really do vote with their wallets.
Full disclosure: I have a '91 4WD suburban with a '72 caddi 500 engine, TH-400 tranni with a Gearbenders overdrive. 15 mpg but it's great for getting my college kids from school. You should see the eyes of the other parents light up when I pull up in my tank. "Um, where are you going and do you have room for this?" I'm not a Mustang person ('71 Nova Rally Sport) but I do love a fast car. And I have voted since Nixon (for).
Ground Control| 4.20.12 @ 11:11AM
"I have a '91 4WD suburban with a '72 caddi 500 engine.."
Uh, you don't have this in California! The California Air Resources Board would have you lynched!
Stammon| 4.20.12 @ 11:32AM
I could tell you tales of my California. Like when I discovered that the fine for driving an unregistered motorcycle was $50, and the ticket was a defacto registration for 30 days. I then just simply took my antique bike out of storage and drove it. When I got a ticket, I would drive another week or two then put it back in storage laughing. It costs a lot more to re-register a bike than $50, and I only drove that bike about 3 weeks a year.
The suburban was originally a diesel, how would they know to smog it?
I live in the Midwest now, CA should fall off into the Pacific if there's any justice.
Ground Control| 4.20.12 @ 12:43PM
"CA should fall off into the Pacific if there's any justice." This is why I keep a life jacket handy. Retribution is coming and I want to be prepared.
I still live here and it is as crazy as you say, perhaps crazier.
Stammon| 4.20.12 @ 12:46PM
I went back a few years ago. I could not find my way around, Redwood city is sooo changed. The once nice middle class neighborhoods are now barrios covered in barbed wire. Good luck and God bless to you.
Stammon| 4.20.12 @ 12:48PM
I've got to go, my Gravley's stuck in our garden with a clogged carb. I have to fix it and plow potato furrows before I leave for work.
StanO| 4.20.12 @ 12:05PM
This a horrible blog. Seriously? I just looked at the pictures of the concept car (the production design will be moderated they always are), what car aficionado wouldn't like that? The car has been crying for independent suspension for years, Ford has worked miracles to make it handle so well in spite of it.
Re: MPG I just noticed that the current V6 can get up to 31mpg at 302hp!! This is all free market business. They are trying to make a price accessible car, that's fast and fun to drive and economical . . . oh the horrors!!!! This is the opposite of Liberalism, Obama would tell him to get rid of the model all together because some people shouldn't be allowed to have fun while others don't.
henry| 4.20.12 @ 12:16PM
I’ve had a lifelong love affair with cars. Amongst my best memories are the mountains of Swaziland in the early morning in my Alfa Spyder boattail, my Camaro 70 and a half, my Chev de Ville (built in Australia) and my Jag xj6 with a Chevy 400 small block.
But if things go according to plan we can always send the plans of wonderful Soviet cars to Ford. Real peoples’ cars. Here’s an extract from a road test of one in Time Magazine:
Built in Soviet-bloc Yugoslavia, the Yugo had the distinct feeling of something assembled at gunpoint. Interestingly, in a car where "carpet" was listed as a standard feature, the Yugo had a rear-window defroster — reportedly to keep your hands warm while you pushed it.
Don’t tell president Obama.
Stammon| 4.20.12 @ 1:20PM
I have a Dnepr M-16, I hear you brother.
Rick_in_VA| 4.20.12 @ 5:14PM
Don't forget the Trebant. (sp)
Gary| 4.20.12 @ 12:30PM
I had a new Mustang GT but sold it as I also have a 2002 Trans Am which I will cherish and keep. Soon we will become Europe and all be driving Mr. Bean cans, be on the "dole," and wear berets. O is the Pied Piper in this lemming march to the sea. Our only hope lies in the rural west and south where enclaves of real Americans remain, mocked, disdained, marginalized, but still standing.
Joe| 4.20.12 @ 11:22PM
....the rural west and south, where enclaves of real Americans remain."
I guess you mean the sh*tty little small towns where the kids leave as soon as they can? You mean the crappy backwater counties where nobody wants to move to, because there are NO jobs, and the minds are as small as the town?
If that's our best hope, we're f#cked.
There's a reason the cities have grown. Jobs. Opportunities. They're more interesting. I'll take my suburban life with tens of thousands of companies to work for any day over life in a one horse, one company town.
Jeff1000| 4.20.12 @ 1:15PM
I still have my 2000 Pontiac Trans Am bought new upgraded with ported and polished LS6 heads, ThunderRacing cam, long-tube headers, free-flowing exhaust, 12-bolt rearend with 4.11 gears, and on and on. Only 16,000 original miles. I plan on maintaining it and driving it until I die.
In reality, to me anyway, everytime I drive it I feel like I'm giving the government the middle finger, and that's just too sweet to ever let go of. To me the car is an expression of individual freedom, liberty, and individual creative expression. The money I pay at the pump is worth every cent to be able to metaphorically tell the government and the liberal idiots to **** off.
God bless America, with liberty, and justice, for all.
buck| 4.20.12 @ 1:27PM
I love the fear mongering and xenophobia propogated in this article under the guise of America for Americans/Patriotism. More of the same. Many critiques, but no solutions.
JP| 4.22.12 @ 1:01PM
The Solution is so simple: vote.
Al Adab| 4.20.12 @ 1:28PM
57 Thunderbird
63 Corvette
65 GTO
73 Riviera
2011 Chevy Volt? Doesn't just fit does it?
Dearborn| 4.20.12 @ 1:28PM
Daniel,
Talk about yelling 'Fire!' in a crowded theater... I am sitting at my computer looking at the '15 Mustang and there are 3 engines - as opposed to the usual 2 choices. Yes, one is one of the more frugal offernings but I can assure everyone that the 'Coyote' is still alive and well in '15.
Petronius| 4.20.12 @ 1:39PM
Here's to all who want to live by and for themselves without interference by weenies.
Ford has been in the tank with the GreenReds since Earthday 1. They saw government mandates as a method for sales of new cars. Now that mandate has ruined their best platform. With the new Blackbox law set to pass Congress being pushed by the regime and the insurance companies, you can get speeding tickets without being pulled over. Your car will be telling nanny how, where, and when you drive. Be careful all who turn your ignition keys within 15 minutes of bar closing time. Change we got. There is no hope anymore. Freedom in the U.S.A. is now dead.
Jeff1000| 4.20.12 @ 2:59PM
Petronius, freedom is only dead if you let it be dead. Why do you think you have to roll over? I plan on resisting and working around attacks on my liberty. If everyone felt that way we wouldn't have a problem, and encouragingly, we don't need everyone, just a majority.
Petronius| 4.20.12 @ 7:27PM
Money is Freedom today. If you can afford to buy your way out of EPA strictures, good for you.
Ground Control| 4.23.12 @ 12:02PM
The solution to this problem is simple: Elect a Conservative House, Senate and President, and have them pass a law that makes "black boxes" in cars and monitoring drivers through them, illegal. WE the People elected these bozos in government. We can and SHOULD vote them out!
Rick_in_VA| 4.20.12 @ 5:09PM
Ford made a similar bone-headed move with the 1974 Mustang II. I guess if we want to keep driving what we want to drive, well have to resurrect some of the oldies before they all end up in the crusher. Bad. government. Bad. Bad.
Walking Horse | 4.20.12 @ 5:42PM
It really doesn't matter to me what the Feds mandate. I won't be buying. I can get a few hundred thousand more miles out of our diesel trucks, and will be buying used, pre-Gummint Motors, replacements when the need arises.
I enjoyed my muscle cars and sports cars. They were a real kick to drive. Somehow I managed to avoid the 'reckless' class of speeding tickets over that time. There was one little gem I should have kept - a 1986 Fiero GT in formal black, with the fuel injected V-6 and a 5 speed manual transmission. That little beast was *quick* .. what a machine it would have been with a turbocharger and a 6 speed gearbox. It got 28 mpg on the road at 80+ and stuck like glue on curves.
Screw government minders. I've had enough of those people pissing down our collars and telling us it is a spring shower. Drive what you want, when you want - just pay for it yourself and leave me out of it.
Joe| 4.20.12 @ 11:15PM
Hey f*cktards. Ford brought us the PINTO, and the EDSEL.
Was that "big gubmint" too?
commie masher| 4.21.12 @ 8:52AM
The same shit happened in the 70's and early 80's with the same car.
It has to do with gas prices,
CARL GRAHN| 4.21.12 @ 9:43AM
Have a little faith man. If FORD is as smart as I think the mustang will survive even thrive. It's the world that is changing.
Nixonfan| 4.21.12 @ 7:20PM
Bottom line: If you don't want to be forced to drive a plastic mini-car, repeal CAFE. When the GOP ruled the world (2000 to 2006), CAFE was protected. Why?
Liberal Soul n Crackers| 4.21.12 @ 11:11PM
Obama's influence will not outlive the Mustang.
somnolence| 4.22.12 @ 12:47PM
Laugh at me all you want but I had a '78 Chevette that lasted 19 years before I got rid of it and am convinced it would still be running if I had kept it. Drove it to California and back one trip, Florida and back once, and to Texas and back several times over the years.
Pikadon| 4.22.12 @ 2:13PM
Back in the '90s, the Ford Probe was originally supposed to be the new Mustang. Fortunately, Ford came to its corporate senses.
Soljerblue| 4.22.12 @ 7:26PM
"If we're going to help you, then you've got to change your ways," President Barack Obama said of the Motown Bailout in Cannon Falls, Minnesota last August."
We give -- we get. Get it? That's the Chicago way.
"There is a place for SUVs and trucks..."
The recycling center. The crusher. Artificial reefs.
"...you have got to understand the market."
That's the market according to Obama, mind you.
milesll| 4.23.12 @ 12:15AM
Let hope reason prevails in November and that the new President and Congress will stop this green crap. There is a reason the public is buying SUV's-safety. The smaller the car the more deaths-3000 last year in small cars. Is 10 mpg worth your life?
Lonnie Wild| 4.23.12 @ 10:42AM
Green crap? nice value system, asswipe - way to look forward.
Ground Control| 4.23.12 @ 11:50AM
Your "value system" itself leaves much to be desired. Your post is insulting and offensive. And truth be known, most things "green" are propaganda, not based on science. Get used to it: CO2 is not a pollutant, "man-made global warming" is a hoax, and the vast majority of "green technology" is uneconomic claptrap mandated by self-important fools in government.
Lonnie Wild| 4.23.12 @ 10:39AM
and Bush I killed the Nova. You are a RETARD. OBAMA HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS
Riff Raff| 4.23.12 @ 11:57AM
Yeah! That EEE-Ville Bush killed the World's greatest car, the Chevrolet Nova! He ORDERED General Motors to cancel a failing product. He ORDERED the public not to buy it anymore! All those retards out there who think a car company sells products to people! And without GOVERNMENT! Sheesh! What maroons! Why can't we buy an ObamaNova?! It's BUSH'S FAULT!!!
Aces and Eights| 4.23.12 @ 12:06PM
To the "Tame" one: In the span of 3 minutes you managed to call one poster a "retard" and another an "asswipe." Is this all you have to offer? Do you have any actual facts or views to post? Or are insulting names the extent of your vocabulary?
Leo| 4.23.12 @ 4:39PM
Obviously Obozo doesn't get it. Cars mean freedom (heck "Fast Cars and Freedom" is a song by Rascal Flatts). Actually, maybe he does get it. By making cars so boring and lacking in panache, it will be a lot easier for many of us to give them up. An American citizen minus a car and a gun might as well be a European serf.
Major| 4.30.12 @ 5:22PM
At the current sales rate, the Mustang may not survive anyone. As a part of the "One Ford" family of world cars, a re-engineered, evolved Mustang might just reach the sales volume to sustain itself for another 50 years. Romantic attachments aside, in the free market dollars are all that matters. Just ask the Oldsmobile, Mercury and Plymouth fans what declining sales mean...
Ford Mustang
Calendar Year American sales
1999 166915
2000 113369
2001 169198
2002 138356
2003 140350
2004 129858
2005 160975
2006 166530
2007 134626
2008 91251
2009 66623
2010 73716
2011 70438
john dubose| 5.11.12 @ 9:40PM
When I die, they will have to pry my fingers off the steering wheel of my old Mustang. No.. It is not rational.
A grand conspiracy theory: What if the varoom sound that a Mustang makes is the result of deliberate engineering and Ford decided to give up a little mileage to get it. Obama's environmental geeks would have a coniption.