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A Further Perspective
My Country Diss of Thee
What’s this about taxpayers renouncing their citizenship and moving away?
Hang on a sec, willya, while I rev up Jim Croce here on the old CD player? Can’t start talkin’ about folks renouncing — yikes! - their American citizenship without the right vibe in the background.
We’ve been runnin’ away from
Somethin’ we both know
We’ve long run out of things to say
And I think I’d better go
So don’t be gettin’ excited
Oh, when you hear that slammin’ door
‘cuz there’ll be one less set of footsteps on your floor
In the mornin’.
You heard me the first time. Various departments and studies assigned to report such things have concluded that the number of Americans breaking up with America is sharply on the uptick. Although denied by various other departments assigned to squelch such things, the numbers do appear to be rising, not lying. People are actually getting fed up enough, or fed enough up, to say enough to the Feds.
At the risk of sounding like a cantankerous old buzzard, I must say that I never thought I would live to see this day.
And we’ve been hidin’ from somethin’
It should have never gone this far
But after all it’s what we’ve done
That makes us what we are
And you’ve been talkin’ in silence
Well, if it’s silence you adore
Oh, there’ll be one less set of footsteps on your floor
In the mornin’.
The official reason tendered by most of the interviewees in the newspaper coverage is the intrusiveness of income reporting requirements. Recent changes in tax law obligate American expats to report the banking activities of their spouses and children. Some of those non-citizens are not eager to be frank with doddering American senatorial types, hence the dissonance.
In an effort to extract revenue from our more peripatetic patriots we are cutting off their hopes to someday re-venue back home.
Oh, there’ll be one less set of footsteps on your floor
One less man to walk in
One less pair of jeans upon your door
One less voice a-talkin’.
Fair enough, they complain of burdensome and intrusive regulation, plus it all sounds like a big fig leaf for people who are paying some other country’s taxes and don’t want to give Uncle Sam sloppy seconds from their pies. If that’s all there is to it, I’m not running to give up my tea in the local harbor. Those people must realize that there is no representation without taxation.
But my intuition tells me that the reporters are missing the true story, probably deliberately. The real cause of the spike in renunciation is denunciation. Alienation breeds aliens. There is only one reason why people, good people, loyal people, patriotic people, people who hearts are brimming with sentiment for this great nation, would stand before the Stars-and-Stripes and say “Sayonara.”
It is that they no longer feel at home here in the fruited plain, and they see their dreams dimming from sea to shining sea.
But tomorrow is a dream away
And today has turned to dust
Your silver tongue has turned to clay
And your golden rule to rust.
People look around them and what do they see? Decay and demoralization. The space program has been outsourced to Russia and the only people getting married are gay. Achievers are being castigated for acting superior and hoods in hoodies are being lauded for acting inferior. The private sector has lost its heart and the public sector has lost its soul.
Our soldiers are dispirited and beginning to misbehave. Washington bureaucrats are fiddling while Rome burns and shooting video as they ease on down the road paved with good intentions. Members of the Secret Service advance detail are entertaining us with the details of their advances.
Israel can do no right and Muslims can do no wrong. It is evil to smoke but virtuous to pull the plug on disabled people. The government insists on watching our calories but refuses to watch the voting booth.
If that’s the way that you want it
That’s the way I want it more
Oh, there’ll be one less set of footsteps on your floor
In the mornin’.
Oh, there’ll be one less set of footsteps on your floor
In the mornin’.
You and I are still here, hoping for hope and change in November, not yet ready to bail. We believe that we can still snatch victory from the jawing defeatists. But we see a country with growing soup lines, and we can’t help asking for whom the bowl tells. The American dream is not broken yet, but it has a hairline fracture and we refuse to use plaster of Paris. Let us re-announce our citizenship and revitalize this nation’s spirit.
About the Author
Jay D. Homnick, commentator and humorist, is a frequent contributor to The American Spectator. He also writes for Human Events. Here he speaks at the Rally for Religious Freedom in Miami on June 8, 2012.
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TLP| 4.19.12 @ 7:34AM
The simple truth of the matter is that, like Moscow, or Havana, or Africa? The United States, under the Reign of "The reason our Founders gave us the 2nd Amendment" Abu Hussain, is fast becoming: A nice place to Visit, but I wouldn't wanna live there.
Remember when all of the European Rock Stars and Movie Stars were crossing the pond to escape the clutches of The Tax Man.
You couldn't ask for a more prescient Warning Sign. It's like in the Movies, and the Hero's out in the open field, and SUDDENLY all of the birds in the trees take flight, en masse.
The Country has one last chance to come back from the brink of Madness. We've only got time for one last shot.
This is the Last Mile.
This is the the End of the Line.
And, since I've run out of Cliche's?
This is the end of my comment, as well.
Maddox| 4.19.12 @ 7:47AM
Yes, it's now or never or we can say
"America, I hardly knew ya."
old white guy| 4.19.12 @ 5:06PM
maddox, you hardly knew the people. the people have turned into trough lickers and will lick anything from the trough as long as they don't have to work or pay for it. that sir is the problem. it is a problem bread by politicans who promise to give people that which belongs to others.
Gary B| 4.19.12 @ 10:13AM
It's getting pretty simple. Do we want an American Mormon or an anti-American Marxist?
Minuteman78| 4.19.12 @ 10:58AM
I look at it as a choice between a Consultant and a Communist. That being said, the choice IS simple.
Gary B| 4.19.12 @ 1:36PM
Right... about as simple as it can possibly get.
For example... "Do you care at all about your children and grandchildren?"
Richard Baker| 4.19.12 @ 4:03PM
Sorry that being a Mormon seems to be a disqualifier for you. Didn't we deal with this sort of nonsense in 1960 with the election of JFK?
Angela| 4.21.12 @ 4:29PM
No. JFK believed that Jesus was God incarnate not Lucifer's Brother and just a good teacher. Morals become thoughts, become actions....Your fundamental faith is extremely relevant to your leadership potential.
Alan Brooks| 4.19.12 @ 6:18PM
Therre was pride when the GOP offered Reagan; but the empty-suited Bushes were enough to make one ashamed. And now you will run Romney and expect us to be enthusiastic??
Skippy| 4.20.12 @ 3:08PM
"You make a good point!"
BHO
Angela| 4.21.12 @ 4:30PM
not to mention the empty suits of Dole and McCain...Romney is another except that he is a tool of the Bishop....
Stilton A. Cheese| 4.19.12 @ 8:04AM
I'm a US citizen who has been living in Germany for longer than I care to remember. I came here *temporarily* but the years came and went, one by one and here I am. The current tax code for US citizens living abroad is actually *hostile* to us. I can't have a joint account with my wife; I have difficulties opening a bank account because of US laws and regulations because *they*, foreign banks, are required to send *my* account information to the US at *their* expense, or risk prosecution by the US authorities. It is a real mess.
I'm of the opinion that the laws are the way they are because of the myth of *rich Americans* who made fortunes exploiting blue collar workers in (name a State) and then take their fortunes to some sunny location and pay no taxes at all. I know several Americans living here and none of them fit this distorted picture. Most of us either work for German firms or have our own businesses and there are many retired former members of the US Armed Forces married to German spouses. But Congress just keeps piling on more onerous rules because it plays well at home and most of us can only vote in presidential elections and not congressional elections.
So thanks for letting me rant.
ps. German beer taste even better when quaffed from an American Spectator beer mug with the *Saloon* logo.
Occam's Tool| 4.19.12 @ 10:31PM
When I was in New Zealand for a year, I could find NO ONE in that worthless country who could do a joint USA-NZ tax form. Came back home, paid my back taxes in total. Crazy.
Appleby| 4.19.12 @ 8:23AM
I live in Canada. I am one of the few conservative Americans whom I know about here; most of the Americans I have met are liberals. The majority of them are unhappy liberals, because they are shocked to find out that socialism is wildly expensive and they still have to go back to the States to buy staple groceries at reasonable prices. Socialist medicine doesn't cover much of anything, and what it covers you usually can't get (but you can get on a waiting list, where they hope you'll either die or give up and go to the States and pay cash). And they are forbidden to buy private insurance to boot! Most of the loudmouthed movie stars who dramatically say they will move here if someone they hate is elected have appaerntly come up here and scoped out what it would cost to live here, and what they would have to do without, and muttered "Never mind" and slunk back to their castles in San Francisco.
People who don't live here often wonder why a country this size concentrates the vast majority of its citizens wihin two hours of the American border. People who live here and pay $12 a gallon for milk and $7.99 for a package of grated Parmesian Cheese that costs $1.99 in the States, and notice that they can save $12,000 on a car by crossing the border understand the reason all too well. There are buses that take people to the USA to shop for groceries. Canada has just raised the duty-free limit to accommodate this phenemonon. That proves they have no plans to lower our prices.
Frying pan, meet fire.
Moe Blotz| 4.19.12 @ 12:44PM
Your population density within two hours of the US border is due to transportation and weather. The Saint Lawrence Seaway was the main transport artery all the way to Gitchagoomee until the Trans Canada Railway was built. The Queen Elisabeth Way then provided for truck transport from the Maritimes to British Columbia. Go three hours north and you are in wilderness, hunting camps, and fishing camps. The weather up yonder gets a mite nippy starting in September. If you are at 0 Celsius come November, North Bay is 10 below. More than enough to freeze your asparagus.
Tim the Enchanter| 4.19.12 @ 2:42PM
Appleby...
I live in the Buffalo, NY area, and on any given weekend, there are as many Ontario plates as NY plates at the malls, gas stations, grocery stores, you name it. However, I like Canadians. Polite, well-spoken, and they don't dress like hoods.
Die Fledermaus| 4.20.12 @ 8:01PM
Yeah, and check out the parking lots at hospitals and medical centers...a lot of Canadians there.
old white guy| 4.19.12 @ 5:44PM
appleby, you don't spend much time in flordia do you. groceries are more expensive than in canada. gas is now almost on a par with canadian prices. beer and golf on the other hand are cheaper and more pleasant because of the climate. canadians have to pay duty on new cars and when they bring them to canada the price works out to be about the same. used car dealers can buy cars and resell them in canada at a profit and regular canadaians can buy used cars of a particular year and older, i am not sure of the current age limit for the cars.
kate| 4.22.12 @ 3:21PM
Appleby,
May I cut and paste your comments and send them to my beloved, yet crazy, liberal friends?
:)
numbatdog| 4.19.12 @ 8:53AM
Jay,
Nice article but although you hint at another reason expats are leaving, you don't mention it. I will.
Americans living abroad are currently subject to ruinous IRS demands, new obscure regulations, severe fines and possible criminal charges for doing something as simple as not ticking a box on a form. The demands on this group goes well beyond what is expected from regular US taxpayers. This is not a bunch of tax avoiders. They pay their local taxes and have had a working relationship with the IRS for many, many years. They haven't changed but the rules suddenly have.
This group of Americans has no effective representation in government to stop them currently being targeted as easy pickings for revenue, something that has only started in the last decade. This is largely done through fear and intimidation and some have been scared into giving up half of their life savings to avoid "trouble". Is it a surprise many are now rather choosing to leave rather than be fleeced ? The current demands of Americans abroad goes beyond unfair. It is actually outrageous.
Old Soldier| 4.19.12 @ 9:11AM
We have become the country of complicated and intrusive regulations. Americans want freedom - unfortunately American citizenship has come to mean the opposite.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47.....5AAd9mQn0R
Bob K.| 4.19.12 @ 9:22AM
I've met a guy who teaches in a University in Puerto Rico. He's been there for 30 years or so and has never had to pay Income Tax. He still can vote for President too
Move to Puerto Rico.
Anommynous| 4.19.12 @ 11:33AM
Come November, it's quite possible Puerto Rico will be on the path to statehood...
albert constantine jr.| 4.19.12 @ 10:28PM
Got to get to 57 states so it looks like O was just a little ahead of everyone else...
Harry the Horrible| 4.19.12 @ 9:37AM
Put an end to all this crap and to the IRS. Stop punishing industry and productivity.
Enact the Fair Tax.
fungoking| 4.19.12 @ 10:34AM
He had been dead a couple of years already but I remember cranking up that song on the car cassette player after breaking up with my girlfriend in high school. Thanks for adding some Croce to my day.
albert constantine jr.| 4.19.12 @ 10:31PM
I saw the photo on the article and asked myself what does the headline have to do with Jim Croce. I read the article and got the point (sort of).
If I was going to use a Croce song to summarize the Obama economy, though, "Steadily Depressin' Low Down Mind-Messin' Workin' at the Car Wash Blues" comes to mind.
Die Fledermaus| 4.20.12 @ 8:04PM
ROFL, I love that song.
It would be a liberal mantra except he still got a car wash job. Today they'd rail about not being rich and sitting in an Occupy tent.
And who goes to county prison for non-support these days? lol
WJW| 4.19.12 @ 10:51AM
Totally agree that the IRS rules (did Congress pass these rules, I doubt it) are onerous.
However, these "vast numbers" of people renouncing their citizenship need to be put into perspective.
The Reuters article linked to states that "1800 people... renouncing their citizenship OR handing in their GREEN CARD".
Hello, how many of the 1800 people were NOT even citizens??? How many of the 1800 people were naturalized citizens (born outside the US) and just decided to move back to their birth country?
In terms of percentages, 1800 people is 0.029% (yes that is correct) of the 6,300,000 Americans living outside the US in the first place. Of the total population of 300,000,000, the percentage is 0.0006%.
Trinacria| 4.19.12 @ 1:06PM
Yes; but the salient point is the trend line. The numbers have spiked from as low as a few dozen individuals in a year to nearly 2000 per year beginning in....you guessed it, 2009. Gee, what seminal event occurred in 2009 that could possibly account for such a phenomenon?
Dai Alanye | 4.19.12 @ 1:14PM
Yes, many are immigrants, either disillusioned by the lack of gold-paved streets, or homesick. Or simply malcontents.
The same phenomenon was common during earlier phases of immigration, with many discontented furriners heading "back home."
old white guy| 4.19.12 @ 5:47PM
wjw. the 1800 were more than made up for by illegals who are now sucking off the government teat.
Doctor Right| 4.19.12 @ 10:58AM
I'm not going anywhere.
I'd rather make the leftists leave...by any means necessary.
LiveFreeOrDie| 4.19.12 @ 3:02PM
If the supreme court goes majority left I would consider moving. The constitution is slowly becoming irrelevant, the United States without rule of law and adherence to the constitution is a country I no longer want to be a part of. Of course the obvious problem is, where would I go?
Skippy| 4.20.12 @ 3:25PM
A question with no answer.
Better to fall fighting than slink away.
Without America I have no desire for slavery elsewhere.
Peter W. Dunn | 4.19.12 @ 11:08AM
Hi Jay, thanks so much for this column. I am the Peter Dunn that Atossa Abrahamian spoke with in the Reuters article that you link to. I gave up my citizenship and I run a blog called the Isaac Brock Society, if you want more evidence as to why people are renouncing. You are only see the tip of the iceberg if you believe the statistics that the government presents. Also there would be a lot more of renouncing if it were for government bureaucratic ineratia. It took me over 1 year from the day that I went into the Toronto Consulate to tell them that I was no longer a US citizenship, to receive a simple piece of paper called a Certificate of Loss of Nationality. The anger, the fear, the disappointment of our people is strong, and the destruction of good will towards of America that this current regime is causing among Americans abroad will perhaps take generations to recover, if something is not done to reverse this situation. Cheers.
Tyler D| 4.19.12 @ 12:19PM
An American who chooses to maintain their live abroad obviously doesn't feel a connection to the homeland anyway, so why should we feel compassion for them. They're too busy being foreign or whatever.
I'm sorry but I don't feel kinship with the "generation's" oversea's that feel "anger, fear, and disappointment" in their so-called "home" society, good riddance, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Peter W. Dunn | 4.19.12 @ 1:14PM
So go back to your insular life in the United States and stop complaining about the trade deficit. If the US is going to cut off its nose to spite its face, who is going to weep in the rest of the world?
Don't let the door swing back and hit you in your upturned nose Mr. Tyler D. The United States alienates its expats and your respond without the slightest compassion or inkling of what's going on. I guess that's why it is called the "ugly American".
But perhaps there is a better way. Perhaps if the US tried to stay connected to its Expats around the world, we could peaceably promote the mission and the exports of the United States. Citizenship based taxation destroys the US's ability to export its goods. Well, when you are suffering from hyperinflation and your worthless dollars won't buy our oil any more, aren't we supposed to have compassion for you?
Tyler D| 4.19.12 @ 1:28PM
Ahh so out it comes the true bottom line is that in reality you're just a commodities speculator with a bearish mind set? Well if the anti-American angle works for you, I wish you good luck in your investments!
Peter W. Dunn | 4.19.12 @ 1:42PM
Well perhaps you call off Timothy Geithner from going after our bank account wealth and then we could all be happy. Have you heard about FBAR? The Foreign bank account report. I suggest you read the article I wrote with Monty Pelerin, at American Thinker, When government becomes predator. Also I wrote there "FATCA: a ticking timebomb for the economy". Why does the United States have to go after our bank accounts? Because Geithner, Obama and Congress are plunging your country into financial ruin. Don't tread on me and my people.
numbatdog| 4.19.12 @ 6:33PM
Well stated Peter.
Tyler D's response is typical of those who wish severe taxes and regulations on others but squeal like stuck pigs when they are personally affected.
The truth is American expats as a group are far superior to average Americans. They are achievers who are not scared to experience a different lifestyle and often think outside the box compared to hometown groupthink.
They are the last people we should be losing at this difficult time.
Occam's Tool| 4.19.12 @ 10:36PM
Well, I couldn't stand New Zealand, and came home. I thank G-d every day I did, even with the asshole in the White House.
This is the best country on Earth. Every climate you want is here, every food, every book, every movie, etc.
Moreover, everything that happens in this country matters. Not true of New Zealand.
albert constantine jr.| 4.19.12 @ 10:42PM
" guess that's why it is called the 'ugly American' "
Actually, “The Ugly American” was a book by Burdick and Lederer published in the 1950s which used fictional examples to demonstrate what it thought was a wrong headed approach to foreign policy and foreign aid. In it, the character known as “the Ugly American” was one of the heroes, a homely engineer so named by the natives who tried to bring small scale sustainable micro assistance to impoverished farmers in the fictional land of Sarkhan, and (if I recall correctly more than 25 years since I read the book) is murdered by the communist revolutionaries because he was too effective, and they needed the peasant farmers poor if they were going to be successful.
Ironically, the term has come to mean loud, obnoxious xenophobic tourists overseas, when the character so titled was actually the contrast of that.
old white guy| 4.19.12 @ 5:48PM
tyler, maybe he did not want to shoot his neighbour to keep some of his freedom
Bubblebustin| 4.19.12 @ 11:24AM
Running away, leftists? I moved to Canada when I was 12 (not as a runaway) and my husband is a US citizen through his father. We're slated to give 6 figures to the IRS because we did well on the sale of our house in Canada (our retirement fund) even though we've never lived or worked a day in the US. Those who'd like to run away will find there will be nowhere on the four corners of this earth the can hide once FATCA is enforced (Foreign Americans Turn Carcinogenic Agents).
Cynicon Implant| 4.19.12 @ 11:29AM
I hear Mexico is pretty nice -- lots of ex-pat communities, good weather and the locals are happy to have the $ coming into their communities. I'm looking into it. Don't see this turning around soon...
Quartermaster| 4.19.12 @ 7:21PM
It's a great place, if you don't mind the fire fights between the Drug syndicates fighting turf battles. A lot of Expats in Mexico are looking for the exits.
Frank Drackman| 4.19.12 @ 11:38AM
Last week he took all my money, and it may sound funny, but I come to get my money back...
and everybody say...
you don't tug on Superman's Cape..
Jim Croce was Da Man!
albert constantine jr.| 4.19.12 @ 10:44PM
It was a real shame when he died of Buddy Holly's disease.
Citizen Jerry| 4.19.12 @ 11:43AM
Those who want to bail should realize there is no other safe haven. President Lincoln was right when he said America was the last, best hope for mankind.
The dream is still here. We just need to find a way to bring it into reality. We can start by ridding ourselves of our poseur-in-chief in November.
Blaze| 4.19.12 @ 11:49AM
I have lived in Canada for 44 years and have been a citizen for 39. Perhaps you consider me a "leftie."
I consider myself an average, honest, law abiding Canadian citizen and taxpayer.
The US Consulate told me in 1973 I was "permanently and irrevocably" relinquishing my US citizenship by becoming a Canadian citizen four decades ago.
IRS wasn't interested in me then because I was young with no money. Now that I am near retirement with retirement savings and investments, the US and IRS want to reclaim me and my money.
Many others are in a similar situation. Most say they will never again visit USA because of this. That won't help your economy, but that's not our problem.
Frank Drackman| 4.19.12 @ 2:04PM
Oh YEAH!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?
Well I vistited Canada once, 1974, can't even remember which Province(does it matter?) whatever the one North Dakota borders on.
Damn Canuck cheated me on the exchange rate, if I hadn't stolen $5 worth of Candy it would have pissed me off..
That was alot of money in 1974...
But thanks for giving those pussy draft dodgers a place to run to..
Frank "Fuck Canada" Drackman
Peter W. Dunn | 4.19.12 @ 5:02PM
Are we supposed to like Americans who write hateful rude things like this? Are you trying to be funny? You stole $5 of candy? That makes you a common thief. Did you ever make restitution for what you stole?
Skippy| 4.20.12 @ 3:34PM
Running away from home to make a better life is noble.
Running across the border to escape tyranny is sensible.
Running your mouth about the rude schmucks and suckers you left behind is assholic.
Occam's Tool| 4.19.12 @ 10:38PM
Manitoba, dear Frank. Should have stayed in Grand Forks, ND. Find yourself there again, get a hold of me through Ken, my man. I'm always up to buy a steak for Da Man.
Bubblebustin| 4.25.12 @ 10:24AM
Frank, your comment that you can't remember which province you visited proves you're ignorant and proud of it. Has your candy habit lead to type 2 diabetes too?
Crassus| 4.19.12 @ 12:32PM
"I got them steadily depressing low down mindless workin' at the car wash blues."
A. Fox| 4.19.12 @ 12:38PM
I do not write much at the spectator because most (not all) do not check facts or do not investagate about what they are talking about. I receive several magazines and investment letters such as International living, Stansberry & Assoc., and The Oxford Club. As to the first (International Living) has reported 740+- people are leaving the US EVERY hour. With UK not far behind the US in numbers. Where are they going.... others countries that are not so intursive, cheaper living, better health care, that means TOP quality and cheaper health care. Where seniors are well respected and receive very good discounts on EVERYTHING! Every cheap living as compared to the standards here in the US. Crime is very, very little and those that do crime are severely delt with. Where are these countries very close 2-3 hrs. away. Plus they have an economy growth of 4-6 % per yr. every yr. You can buy a single home from 65K (1600sq.ft.) on an acre or more. Plus to much to list here on how inexpensive it is to live at these countries. Where... not going to tell you.
Do your own research. Plus I have a passport from that country and the gov't "thumbs their nose at the US corrupt gov't. Yes, I am retired, 10 yrs. of military service (3yrs combat), retired 26 yrs. realestate broker, retired Fed. officer. So, don't get the idea I don't love the US. Father WWII combat vet., Grandfather WWI combat vet. Yes, I love my country BUT it has turned into a beast a very nasty beast!
Dai Alanye | 4.19.12 @ 1:15PM
Summer soldiers and sunshine patriots.
A. Fox| 4.19.12 @ 1:36PM
F---K off! I put my ass on the line more than once...how about 3 times 3 wounds. Where the hell where you? Behind your dress! Not some doughboy a Ranger so again F--K off!
Tyler D| 4.19.12 @ 1:59PM
Coarse language aside, Thank you for defending our country, but you have to admit it's a little bewildering, you "love" the country so much you decided to leave?
A. Fox| 4.19.12 @ 3:57PM
Not leave a second home a.k.a vacation home.
albert constantine jr.| 4.19.12 @ 10:49PM
I gather from your comments that you have not renounced your US citizenship, but own property outside the US.
Occam's Tool| 4.19.12 @ 10:43PM
Yeah, Equador is nice. But, Mr. Fox, nothing compares to the Mayo Clinic. Sorry, sir, but I know from the inside, and considerably more than you.
By the time I'm 59, my 2.5 acre home will be paid off.
You may want to check the political stability, as well. I'm reasonably familiar with Central America---my babies are Guatemalan. I'm also very familiar with Australasia, as well.
I'd rather be here. Things will get much better, and soon.
Not Special Ops Bill| 4.19.12 @ 1:23PM
A good many years ago, when I opposed the Vietnam War because the government used draftees to fight that war, I was told that I should leave the U.S. if I didn't support its policies. I told those people then, and I say now, that if you don't like something that America is doing, your duty is to stay here and fight for change. To leave is to chicken out.
A. Fox| 4.19.12 @ 1:43PM
Not leave...just a place to go till things cool off.
If you like having 50% or higher of your income (working or retired) taken then by all means just give it to the gov't all of it. By the way when you retire you can have the gov't "death" panels tell you it's time to die. Or better yet just kill yourself now!
Peter W. Dunn | 4.19.12 @ 2:25PM
I have chickened out of anything. Have some respect. I have stood up to your government with my real name.
A. Fox| 4.19.12 @ 3:59PM
your real name...lol. Your all talk a paper tiger...
no not even a tiger.
Peter W. Dunn | 4.19.12 @ 5:13PM
I've been told before that I am a chicken. But whenever I make a blog comment, it is in my real name, or such manner that people can trace the comment back to my real identity (Petros is my blogger alias). I decided a few months ago, when Jim Flaherty announced that the Canadian government would not collect FBAR fines, that I could reveal who I am--before that, discretion was the better part of valour. I don't mind being called a chicken, because I relinquished my US citizenship, but I am quick to point out when the person calling me a chicken is hiding behind an alias or a untraceable identity, such as A. Fox. That doesn't seem particularly courageous to me.
Not Special Ops Bill| 4.19.12 @ 6:27PM
To renounce your citizenship because you disagree with your country's policies is to chicken out of the struggle against the policies you don't like. If your country is rounding people who agree with you up for the camps, then leaving is understandable; short of that, you're just chickening out. But evidently you know all about that.
Peter W. Dunn | 4.19.12 @ 6:40PM
I mean you should just stop before you remove all doubt. I left the US to study abroad, not out of any political disagreements. I married a Canadian and I stayed here in Canada. I don't know why that is wrong. Now Geithner, Obama and Shulman want all our money, because they are not going to ask voters to pay for their budget deficits. That's why they dusted off FBAR, and passed the FATCA legislation. They are desperate for money. I am not chickening out of anything. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Peter W. Dunn | 4.19.12 @ 7:13PM
When I say they want all our money I mean this: they have threatened those with foreign bank accounts, to try to make them go into the OVDI programs (Offshore voluntary disclosure programs), with 300% fines--50% per annum, the maximum for wilful violation of FBAR fines. Now if I were poor (like a dear friend of mine) it wouldn't matter. I could remain American. But I am not poor. So I had to relinquish my US citizenship, just so that I can keep my wealth. Mind you 300% fines are a violation of the Eighth Amendment, but Geithner, Shulman and Obama don't care about the Constitution. If Obama gets another term, there are going to be a lot of people who call me smart, not chicken. But believe me, I didn't leave the states to get away from anything. I left to study.
Occam's Tool| 4.19.12 @ 10:46PM
You would be correct about your wealth, Peter. However, you are on the Sharia pain list, and it is coming and growing. You also have diminished free speech.
Not Special Ops Bill| 4.20.12 @ 12:21PM
You're the one who was exercised enough to raise your own "chickening out" experience.
As I clearly stated, if you left the U.S. because of disagreement over policy, you were chickening. At first you gave the impression that your abandoning the U.S. was over policy; now you say it wasn't. Which is it? Please try to grasp the concept of consistency in your writing.
Not Special Ops Bill| 4.20.12 @ 12:32PM
After a short period of further consideration, I guess that's capitalism for you, so I'm OK with you renouncing your U.S. citizenship over money. That's liberty for you, eh?
Oh, Canada, your Canada!
Occam's Tool| 4.19.12 @ 10:44PM
Actually, the beauty of this country is that we let people leave freely. However, Mr. Dunn is in for an Islamic surprise over the next 15 years. Have fun, Pete.
A. Fox| 4.20.12 @ 6:27AM
A. Fox stands for Alan Fox dumb ass!
Peter W. Dunn | 4.20.12 @ 7:21AM
Ok, that's really nice. Call me a rude name. Are there any grown-ups around?
Skippy| 4.20.12 @ 3:40PM
Here's one.
Some love their money enough to run to a seemingly safer place. They will be surprised when the piper appears demanding payment.
Some would rather die than abandon their country. They will fight.
Not Special Ops Bill| 4.19.12 @ 6:31PM
I became a conscientious objector to the war. That created several significant barriers to my advancement in life. I had to fight a bit harder than others to get past that.
What was your issue, and what did you do about it before you decided to relinquish your citizenship?
Peter W. Dunn | 4.19.12 @ 6:50PM
I tell my story in full at my blog. My lawyer handed me information about how your government wants to put an obstacle, called HEROES (passed 2008, signed by President Bush), that wants to assess a tax if I am a "covered expatriate". The threshold was 2 million dollars. I decided I better get out before your government inflate away the value of the dollar and my accounts, worth a lot less than 2 million, suddenly become millions of US dollars due to hyperinflation. So it is the New Berlin Wall. A barrier designed to keep people from leaving the country. I don't even live in the United States, not since 1986. I therefore don't owe Washington DC anything. I pay my taxes here in Canada. And believe me, it is a lot more than you folks in the US pay; but your leaders think it is smart to come after us for more tax.
Then they came out with the TFSA (tax free savings account) which is the same as a Roth IRA. But it isn't recognized by the US government, only by the Canadian. So whatever I made in that account the US said I had to pay taxes on. So I said, perhaps I could get a Roth IRS. But I can't avail myself of that tax shelter because I don't live in the United States. Then I realized I can't win this battle. So I started the process for the first time in 2010 to become a Canadian. The day I became a Canadian, I ceased being a US citizen. That's my story. It has nothing to do with being a chicken as you suggest. It has to do with defending my wealth and my wife's wealth from your greedy government.
Not Special Ops Bill| 4.20.12 @ 12:23PM
So you chickened out over money, not principle, eh?
Not Special Ops Bill| 4.20.12 @ 12:33PM
As stated above, I'm OK on capitalistic/libertarian grounds with you renouncing your U.S. citizenship.
Peter W. Dunn | 4.20.12 @ 1:50PM
Thanks for suggesting it is ok on libertarian/ capitalistic grounds. That is something. There are some pretty significant principles though: (1) Freedom. I should have the freedom to live whereever I want. The Ninth Amendment protects that right--if I decide to live somewhere else, it is an abridgment of that freedom if the IRS follows me around and threatens me with 300% FBAR fines of all my financial wealth.
(2) I will die for my God first, my family second, my country last. I will not be a martyr for the United States of America. Please look at that carefully. I will not die for my country if it doesn't fall in line with my other two higher priorities. My life is here in Canada. So I owe my wife protection. My renunciation of US citizenship is to protect her. As a Christian, my country is not my god. So I can be free to leave and renounce my country because my citizenship is not here on earth in any case.
Skippy| 4.20.12 @ 3:43PM
Your justification satisfies your priorities.
If we manage to save this country I suspect you will want to slink back with your money.
Expect to be shunned as a coward and selfish opportunist.
Peter W. Dunn | 4.21.12 @ 8:12AM
I am a Canadian now. Canada is a great country. By the time you get your country back, you may find that the vast majority of people in the US will be begging Canadian Snow Birds and Winter Texans to please come back and spend their money. We used to go to Hawaii every other year or Florida, or Texas. Well, I can't say I'll be coming back any time soon.
POST American| 4.19.12 @ 1:27PM
--Putting aside this rather routine
right op chain--puller---
IN this, the NOW CONFIRMED 11th
hour of the CFR---RED China handover,
takedown, OCCUPATION and FINAL
EUGENICS OP, those in need of 'in--sight'
must punch up the latest Eustace Mullens
article ----'WHO OWNS the MEDIA'.
Even we were surprised to see the
ever invoked 'John Birch Society' right op
was directed by none other than
--Nelson Rockefeller-- himself.
LOL
---------CHECK IT OUT!
Kingofthenet| 4.19.12 @ 2:21PM
It is VERY difficult to renounce your citizenship, even more so if it's due to taxes.You also have to pay up 100% before they will allow you to do it.Than your a stateless person that NOBODY cares about in the slightest.
A. Fox| 4.19.12 @ 4:20PM
It's quite true you are not toooo smart. If you where you would know it's not 100%. Do some
research lib. I didn't say I was giving up my citizenship just having another place to live, like
a vacation home. Like I have said most here are just plain dumb!
Stan Redmond| 4.19.12 @ 2:46PM
I own a manufacturing company. If the Obamatons are re-elected it will be the final nail in my business' coffin. I will take it all overseas including myself. I am punished severly on a daily basis from this wannabe monarch. Raw materials for what I need are outrageous now. We can't mine our own materials, produce our own energy, or hire our own people affordably. When I pay a tax or dare say bribe (campaign donation) I don't get results and am openly scorned daily by the clown show at the white house. When overseas I have access to skilled and enjoyable employees. I am WELCOMED by the local politicians and supported by the government.
We have the highest corporate taxes in the world. We have a government hostile to business. We have a president who HATES wealth, success and prosperity who sics his minions on you. There is an ungrateful filthy mass of losers smashing business' windows in a phony "occupation."
I'm surprised more people aren't leaving. It would be great to send the leftists packing. But their tenticles are so wrapped up in controlling every aspect of this country I won't live to see them destroyed. I'd love to help take the leftists out but I'm just too tired to fight and run a business. I'll go where I am welcomed with support. Try starting a manufacturing business in this country. I dare you.
A. Fox| 4.19.12 @ 4:05PM
Thanks for the help. What these, what ever you want to call them, people forget sooooo fast is we
all came from immigrants at some point in time for the same reasons we are all talking about here.
TexasMom2012| 4.19.12 @ 7:00PM
Some states are easier to operate a business than others! Our home values never declined and actually went up 20% over the last few years... So businesses are also doing well here. Plus Texas is pushing back hard against the Feds through the courts.
kate| 4.19.12 @ 2:46PM
Another discouraging sign is the silly right wingers insisting that Rubio is not a natural born citizen. As a staunch conservative, I must say that I am disappointed by their silly posts. Rubio's father COULD NOT, ever have run for the presidency, because of our laws.
His son, Marco Rubio, was born here, a natural born citizen to immigrants who were here legally and he is American through and through.
Unless you are native American, you who oppose Rubio need to shut up.
Tis a nation of immigrants.
The founding father's INTENTION was to keep first generation immigrants from the presidency, because the home is where the heart is.
Rubio for VP ...all the way!!!!
LiveFreeOrDie| 4.19.12 @ 3:09PM
Hey why not, the current President probably isn't eligible either.
markenoff| 4.22.12 @ 3:07AM
Your post is the first I've heard of this issue.
kate| 4.22.12 @ 3:00PM
There are many "conservatives" (even here on AS) who insist Rubio does not meet the constitutional requirements to be president, because, when he was born, his parents were here legally and not yet American citizens. If I were a Supreme Justice, I would reject that argument, because his parents were here legally and he was born on American soil and was raised as an American.
Petronius| 4.19.12 @ 3:19PM
There will be no real change in Amerika until the professional parasites who leech the life from the producers kill their hosts. The only thing that will stop them short of open rebellion is a national lockout by private business. We ought to lay in enough provisions for a month and do nothing that can be taxed.
A. Fox| 4.19.12 @ 4:07PM
Have already done that except for one years worth.
cicero| 4.19.12 @ 4:59PM
I have observed over the past several weeks that we seem to have lost our real issue. Everyone seems to be worried about the proposed tax on the rich, which will not pass. It is only being ussed as a stalking horse, and to very good effect. The real issue is spending, and the size of government. If the Conservatives start pounding away at these issues, taxation will naturally fall into place. Throw in the ever expanding regulatory agencies, and our working class sees no hope for economic freedom. Let's keep our eye on the ball - cut the size and scope of government. Propose a balancedd budget in the first year. Then, go for it.
Peter W. Dunn | 4.19.12 @ 5:17PM
If you cut the spending in half (what is required for a balanced budget) you will have rioting in the street. If you don't cut the budget, you'll have hyperinflation. But your politicians don't have the leadership gonads to fix this--neither the democrats or the republicans. Instead, they come after us in Canada and the rest of the world. Not too smart, but it seems to buy votes in the United States--tax the people in Canada and overseas, penalize their wealth away, but don't under any circumstances raise taxes on the majority of taxpayers, or cut spending, or you'll have a revolution on your hands.
Skippy| 4.20.12 @ 4:00PM
Understand Mr. Run-n-hide that many of us desire riots in the streets.
We have a domestic enemy operating in every region: traitors.
Through word and deed they threaten everything American.
Like any enemy they must be crushed and humiliated and their will to continue destroyed.
Many of us are willing to risk all to protect our streets from traitorous scum.
Others of us wait in Canada for the dangerous stuff to be over and the debris cleared.
That's where you come in.
Heywood Broun| 4.19.12 @ 10:15PM
I love my country, but anybody who does not have a pied-a-terre outside America's borders will be very sorry in 5 years or so.
Skippy| 4.20.12 @ 4:01PM
And it will be soooo much better and safer where?
Occam's Tool| 4.19.12 @ 10:48PM
Heywood: Stick to evaluating Boxing. Outside America's borders is going to crash by 2030.
JA| 4.20.12 @ 11:02AM
The mere fact that this issue is now being discussed illustrates how far downhill this nation has fallen. Aside from the Vietnam period, I do not recall anyone discussing this topic.
After all, who would even think about renouncing US citizenship. I never did.
Until now.
I will not do it because, basically I am chicken, but it has crossed my mind - for the first time in my life.
Our govt literally has become a tyranny; ruled by millionaire elites in congress that answer to big money special interest groups. Our individual rights are being confiscated by a myriad of taxes, rules, regulations, edicts, etc. all foisted upon us by un-elected bureaucrats that are accountable to no one. Congress simply allows this.
The ruling elites are simply clueless what ordinary working families have to put up with while they shove down our throats more obstacles.
No, I probably would never renounce my citizenship, but for the first time in my life, I wish there was a quick, simple , easy way to do it without being punished. If there was, I perhaps would renounce.
Ten years ago this though never, ever crossed my mind.
Just Me| 4.20.12 @ 2:44PM
Disappointed at some of the Weekly Standard forum participants. Why does the level of discourse have to include foul name calling or insulting each other. Can't we have reasoned debate about issues we might disagree about without casting dispersion on another's freedom to decide what makes sense for them?
I am an expat, and not renouncing. I have been residing in NZ and living with the pain and complexity of a very misguided U.S. citizenship taxation model that only an Eritrea or North Korea thinks is a good idea. Even the 50 separate and independent states govern with a territorial model, and yet the US asserts its dominion of its "U.S. Persons" no matter where in the universe they actually live and use government services. Now with FATCA, the Congress and the IRS are engaging in a stunning assertion of imperial rights that over ride the sovereign laws and constitutions of all other countries around the world in the name of finding "homeland tax cheats".
If Congress legislation only applied to those residing in the U.S., well that would be one thing, but when it extends to every financial institution in the whole wide world and requires them to be an IRS tax collector and casts a wide net to capture very "U.S. person" living around the entire globe, you have to stand back and "hey, wait a minute, tax considerations aside, this is not good policy, and may have serious systemic risks to capital flow." If FATCA is not familiar to you, I would be googling it. It is not mentioned in JAY D. HOMNICK article above.
I am still in the "Complain but Comply" mode, but that comes at a Big Cost in dollars and Life Credit Units (LCUs) unappreciated by US Homelanders, right or left. I would encourage some of you who don't get it, to read the very recent National Taxpayers Report to Congress on International Tax issues. That might help you understand why some U.S, citizens abroad, for very good reasons figure the cost of the US passport has become too high. To paraphrase an old political quote, "It's the Complexity, stupid."
I understand what Peter Dunn has done. I get it. Ask yourself, why don't you? Read this.
http://bit.ly/xIqDb7
PS... It is ok if you have no desire, reason, or need to live in another country except the U.S., or move back to the U.S as another commented above, because they hated New Zealand. There is no accounting for taste, and we each like different places. There are many factors that go into a decision, not the least of which are family. But, let other's go freely without enslaving them with a taxation and penalty chain back to the Homeland. It actually helps the US economy if it has salesman and good will ambassadors living and working around the world, just like China and India do without having to pay tribute back to their homeland.
Unfortunately, the good will that U.S. Citizens abroad have had for their homeland has greatly dissipated into active negative actions and advocacy the last 3 years of IRS jihad against off shore accounts. Its inability to separate the minnows from the whales in its Voluntary Disclosure "one size fits all" penalty programs, and then Congresses double down whammy of FATCA which many serious unintended consequences, have left the U.S. diaspora gasping with many conundrums to deal with. Hard choices are having to be made. It is leading to ill feelings, but maybe the U.S. doesn't care. U.S. policies are short sited and myopic, but given the political climate and the money chase for re-election I understand why it is so. Special interest rule. U.S. expats have no power or representation in the Money pit called Congress. I get it.
And one more thing, to quote Phil Hodgen, international tax attorney whose business is quite busy these days with expatriation issues, "Let’s abuse one more bias commonly held about expatriation. (A bias especially prevalent among politicians, it seems). Did you notice in the article that the people interviewed are living in high-tax countries, both for income tax and death taxes? Isn’t that interesting . . . ."
Just Me| 4.20.12 @ 9:46PM
Sorry... Didn't mean to call you the "Weekly Standard", Duh... I had been reading there right before here, and my brain was not engaged! LOL
POST American| 4.21.12 @ 12:20AM
"I've talked to people ---John Wayne's
family ---wives of billionaire's.
ALLLL getting out. They're getting out.
The word's out, in a couple of years you
won't be able to get anything out.
That's the word---"
-ALEX JONES
(days ago)
"The people are being not only plundered,
but occupied, locked down, and lined up
for EUGENICS. That NO ONE's raising
any hackles ----that there's virtually NO
resistance, is very, VERY strange.
Something's been done to us.
---------------Something-----------------."
-Informed online
"--Christianity's about to be dumped.
I have no doubt about it. MILLIONS
upon MILLIONS of muslims have been
settled across our midwest just since
Obama's been put in. ---Paris is now a
birka republic. Look for MASS conversions
in America, Europe, Latin America. And
I maintain that ALLLLLL the rituals of
masonry are ISLAMIC. I have laid this out
before 33rd degree masons and have gotten
affirmatives all the way through. The NEO-CONS
are NOT conservative, but are, in fact, just
a bunch of Troskyists who realized they could
not bring in the NWO without a religious
component. ---ISLAM is to be that component."
-Informed online
"we are using MASSIVE third world
(largely muslim) immigration to DESTROY
British culture beyond repair, once and
for all ---FOREVER."
-Jack Straw
Home Secretary under Blair
(Daily Mail interview 2005)
--------------------------GETTING IT ---YET????
Rich Rostrom| 4.21.12 @ 6:47PM
There have always been a few Americans who for random reasons went elsewhere. Think of all the American heiresses who married British lords back in the day, like Winston Churchill's mother.
With increasing levels of travel and migration, and intermarriage, this has increased. Also greater prosperity in many other countries.
But the numbers are still very small, compared to emigration from Europe in in the 1800s, or from Latin America today.
Tulsa Jack| 4.21.12 @ 9:48PM
I'm sick and tired of arrogant, so-called elites in Big Gov'mint trying to control my life. Enough of a worthless, peon president who thinks he's god; RINOs in Congress with life tenure; judges ignorant and dismissive of constitutional law; moochers who think I owe them a living and can force me to pay for it by holding a gun to my head; union thugs; police goons; Eric Holder; "liberal" feudalists; teachers subverting our children; and on. Simple concepts like decency, freedom, equal justice, patriotism, honest government administering the state instead of subjecting citizens to arbitrary dictates -- I've had it. Loyalty is a two-way street. When you see a freight train coming 'round the bend, it's time to get off the tracks.
kate| 4.21.12 @ 10:12PM
I concur.
CVO| 4.23.12 @ 1:08AM
Excellent column.