The American Spectator : Big Hate

spike59| 4.18.12 @ 7:14AM

ahhh...the 'tolerant left'...

Jack in Wi.| 4.18.12 @ 8:06AM

The Party who spent the whole last election attacking Obama's srewball religious background hasn't got much to say when their own candidate's screwball religion is attacked.

Actully if Romney, who was Mormon bishop, and his father who also was a bishop, defended the better parts of their faith I would have more respect for him. Both Romney and his father and mother all were for legalized abortion. Romney presided on the Massacustts gay marriage idiocy, without much opposition. Mormons are generally against abortion and the pushing of homosexuality as normal. I believe their theology on those topics is right there with most conservative Christians. Romney has never shown the balls to stand up publicly for what his religion supposedly teaches.

I did read an article about when Romney was a bishop that he was very good in talking to a Mormon women who wanted an abortion. He told her it was her responsibilty to have the child, not kill it. The story has been told to prove how insensitive to women Romney is. Well if he stood up for his faith in public like he did in that case, I would have more respect for him.

Ryan| 4.18.12 @ 9:16AM

"The whole election attacking Obama's religion?" It wasn't exactly party-wide. Establishment Republicans ran from the issue.

We wanted to know how his religious views shaped his public policy. It is an honest question.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 3:17PM

Well, then it will also be honest when we question Romney's views.

Cynic| 4.18.12 @ 5:21PM

Romney is a "secret Mexican polygamist," spread the word.

;)

Bruce| 4.18.12 @ 9:33AM

I'm sure that when Romney spoke to the woman seeking the abortion some of his final words to her were that she had free agency to decide what to do. I'm also sure he told her about the support she could continue to receive from the Church.

Purp| 4.18.12 @ 11:41AM

I would expect Romney to push for polygamy. After all if a marriage can be between a man and a man, why not a man and a woman and a man.

Mike Hawk| 4.18.12 @ 12:28PM

I see you are a religous bigot too.

Anthony| 4.18.12 @ 1:16PM

Well there's hope for you Purp, one of these variations might get you into a relationship at last!!
But to cover all your bases, you might want to include barnyard animals.

O.F. A.N. A.S.S.| 4.18.12 @ 2:23PM

Baa.

We sheep have been watching our backsides for more reasons than just fckewe.

We sheep in emulation of the FBI have our own posted list on the barn door.

Ovines For
A Nation
Absent Species Sodomization

Appleby| 4.18.12 @ 4:26PM

Marriage AMONG a woman and two men is not polygamy. It's polyandry.

Purp| 4.18.12 @ 4:40PM

Did Obama push for polygamy since Muslims can have four wives?

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 6:04PM

His Dad did

Anthony| 4.18.12 @ 6:48PM

No Purp, but thanks for tacitly conceeding the point that Obozo is a Muslim.
We need more lefties like you to show your honesty.

O.F. A.N. A.S.S.| 4.18.12 @ 8:00PM

#3 Alert.

Ovines For
A Nation
Absent Species Sodomization

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 9:40AM

Apparently, Romney Is Just A Cafeteria Mormon.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 10:26AM

Let me educate you Clint though that may be impossible with someone like you and Jack. And it is a lie that he supported gay marriage in Massachusetts, he fought against it with all he had. They don't make so-called "Cafeteria Mormons" Stake Presidents, they have to live the highest standard. Harry Reid has never been a Bishop or a Stake President for good reason and never will be.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 10:49AM

Apparently, Romney Is A Cafeteria Mormon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_w9pquznG4

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 11:17AM

yada yada, no one cares what you think Clint other than your boyfriend Jack

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 11:21AM

Uh Oh !
Mormon Mouth Got No Answer To His Mancrush, Romney's Abortion Flip Flop.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 11:47AM

Everyone realizes he was just trying to neutralize it as an election issue running in Massachusetts. You can't be like Rick Santorum and have a prayer to win there. Also I have never been a huge Romney supporter (though I did prefer him to Newt and Santorum) but he will be the Republican nominee and anyone who refuses to vote for him because of his religion and rather see a Marxist be re-elected is a stupid bigot.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 1:40PM

Romney Is A Phoney Flip Floppin' Opportunist.

Listen To What Romney Is Saying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_w9pquznG4

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 1:43PM

Ron Paul is a whackjob so of course whackjobs like you think he the greatest politician since George Washington

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 2:02PM

Dr.Ron Paul Ain't An Abortion Flip Floppin' Ruling Elites' Frontman, Like Your RINO-CINO Fop, Mittens Romney.

Dr.Reich's The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooge,Who Said He'll Vote For The Ruling Elites' Fop Frontman, Mittens Romney.

We Are Being Set Up By The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

spike59| 4.19.12 @ 7:42AM

awwww, widdle Cwint...is oogums still fwowing a tantwum because him's boifwiend Wonn Paww got peed on by the entire GOP?????

Lyneuss Fields | 4.19.12 @ 12:53AM

Not to worry, it's just Romney's Holy Ghost.
http://lyneussfields.blogspot......rated.html

Jack in Wi.| 4.19.12 @ 12:34AM

Go watch Clints UTube. Romney is nothing but a slimeball pushing abortion. Who could believe such a person?

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 3:24PM

Some of us are uncomfortable with Deacons and Stake Presidents of a religion in our White House.

Feel free to keep advertising Romney's religious leadership. LOL!!!

Renaissance Nerd | 4.18.12 @ 3:54PM

All faithful Mormon men are priests of one rank or another. A Bishop is only a lay pastor in the sense that he isn't paid; there is no 'lay' anything in the LDS Church. There is no paid clergy, and nobody chooses his own calling. You can be Bishop for 5 years and then a Nursery Worker. Your choice of jobs is to accept or reject the calling, and Bishops are very carefully vetted before any call is made. It's about the hardest job in the known universe, and you get to do it while working at your day job too. It's nothing like being an Episcopalian or Catholic Bishop, either in duties or scale. If you knew what the job entailed, you'd realize that Romney might turn out to be a great president. I hope rather than expect he will, since he also has an education in management, but it could be.

KennesawJack| 4.18.12 @ 10:54PM

But apparently very comfortable with incompetent frauds.

Quartermaster| 4.18.12 @ 5:32PM

If he fought against gay "marriage" with all he had, he did it in a pretty strange way. Last I looked, he didn't fight it at all, in spite of what he was told he had the power to do. He simply let it go.

He also appointed liberals as judges, making no effort whatever to appoint anyone that would stand for the law. Yeah Mittens really fights.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 6:08PM

At the beginning of his governorship, Romney opposed same-sex marriage and civil unions, but advocated tolerance and supported some domestic partnership benefits.[143][151][152] Faced with the dilemma of choosing between same-sex marriage or civil unions after the November 2003 Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court decision legalizing same-sex marriages (Goodridge v. Department of Public Health), Romney reluctantly backed a state constitutional amendment in February 2004 that would have banned same-sex marriage but still allow civil unions, viewing it as the only feasible way to ban same-sex marriage in Massachusetts.[153] In May 2004, Romney instructed town clerks to begin issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples, but citing a 1913 law that barred out-of-state residents from getting married in Massachusetts if their union would be illegal in their home state, no marriage licenses were to be issued to out-of-state same-sex couples not planning to move to Massachusetts.[151][154] In June 2005, Romney abandoned his support for the compromise amendment, stating that the amendment confused voters who oppose both same-sex marriage and civil unions.[151] Instead, Romney endorsed a petition effort led by the Coalition for Marriage & Family that would have banned same-sex marriage and made no provisions for civil unions.[151] In 2004 and 2006, he urged the U.S. Senate to vote in favor of the Federal Marriage Amendment.

There be the facts for you, anyone who says he supported gay marriage is ill informed or lying.

Jack in Wi.| 4.19.12 @ 12:37AM

Thank you Mr. Paid consultant from the Romney campaign. This guy speaks out of 3 sides of his mouth everyway and everyday. No thank you.

Todd S| 4.19.12 @ 10:17AM

That is wikipedia and just basically stating the timeline of facts jackoff

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 12:05PM

Clint = Teflon93 = dumb.

Mike Hawk| 4.18.12 @ 12:29PM

Clint + Jack = Religous bigot = hates Jews + hates Mormons

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 1:00PM

That's A Lie.

You're A Liar, Dr.Reich.

Dr.Reich's The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooge,Who Said He'll Vote For The Ruling Elites' Fop Frontman, Mittens Romney.

We Are Being Set Up By The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 3:13PM

If it's a lie, then PROVE IT, tough guy.

Go ahead.

We're waiting.

...crickets...

Clint = Teflon93 = dumb.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 3:25PM

Foist,
Prove You're Not A Serial Liar, Lapsed Catholic, Turned Ax Grinding Anti-Catholic RomneyGirl, Dr.Reich.

Dr.Reich's The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooge,Who Said He'll Vote For The Ruling Elites' Fop Frontman, Mittens Romney.

We Are Being Set Up By The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 3:29PM

Prove you're NOT a closet-case.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 3:50PM

Prove You're Not A Pedophile Queer, Dr.Reich.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 4:47PM

...I know you are, but what am I?

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 8:21PM

Like I've Said,You're A Liar & A Coward & A Lapsed Catholic, Ax Grinding Anti-Catholic Bigot & A RINO_CINO Romney Flunkie Stooge, Dr.Reich.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 1:05PM

That's A Lie.

You're A Liar, Little Micky Hawklette.

My Buddies, Steve, Ron, Big Steve,Enosh, Ari Will Call You A Liar To Your Smear Bund Coward's Face.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 3:30PM

Jack + Clint = NAMBLA gone wild!!

JT| 4.18.12 @ 3:53PM

Clint's old man should have squirted Clint onto the wall that fateful night and Clint should have faded into history as a job well done for Formula 409 spray cleaner.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 4:05PM

JT's Mama Should Have Not Done The Navy's Fifth Fleet On Shore Leave.

JT| 4.18.12 @ 4:24PM

Your right, and that would have put her closer to the military than your punk ass phony war hero old man ever got to it!

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 8:27PM

That's A Lie.

Interesting, How JT & The Other Israel Firster Smear Bund Traitor Bastard RINO-CINO's Badmouth American Combat Officers, Like My Dad.

Michael| 4.18.12 @ 4:42PM

JT
I thought he did that and voila, Clint.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 8:30PM

That Was Your Old Man, Little Micky.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 3:53PM

Dr.Reich & Hermann Goring= Pink Nazis R Us.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 4:49PM

Hermann Goering was actually a notorious Lady's Man, so thanks!

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 7:40PM

That's Dr.Reich's Story And He's Stickin' To It.

JT| 4.18.12 @ 6:09PM

The only thing Clint has pleasured is his hand and Father Reich from wisc's wango lost its tango 30 years ago.

Jack in Wi.| 4.18.12 @ 4:42PM

Thats a lie. I follow my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who said." Love your neighbor a yourself." There is no room for hate in my heart. The followers of the prophet Joseph Smith, the prophet Mohammed, and a crackpot named Herzl are just deluded children of God who should be prayed for not hated.

Pelleas| 4.18.12 @ 5:50PM

Herzl..a "crackpot"..????

What are you basing that weird, slightly anti-semitic comment on?

JT| 4.18.12 @ 6:00PM

"There is no room for hate in my heart"

LOl!!!!! ROTFLMAO!!!!!!

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 7:26PM

JT Is Another Smear Bund Bigot Liar & A Coward.

spike59| 4.19.12 @ 7:44AM

clint...time to go off-line...your mommy wants one of your 'special massages'

Clunt| 4.18.12 @ 5:17PM

Hi, I just created www.teapartygroundzero.com its like a Facebook but geared towards us. This site is not a group but a social network of many groups that come together across our Nations Thank you

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 7:31PM

Interesting, How The Israel Firster Smear Bund Poseur Poster Coward, Attempt To Marginalize And Smear Up The Tea Party,Hiding Behind His Phoney Moniker.

TLP| 4.18.12 @ 9:43AM

"His Screwey Religion"?

How is it that MSNBC's resident Ccksckr - that pig fck POS- Larry O'Donnell, never has anything to say when HARRY REID is pounding the bricks, looking for votes? How came I've never heard any of this stuff about Orin Hatch, or Mo Udall? I thought that this Sh*t was supposed to have been put to bed, with the Campaign of the Brother do Mary Jo Kopechne's MURDERER?

We were told that RELIGION, like Families, was supposed to be off the table. Of course, we all know that, that was meant to mean DEMOCRAT'S Religion, and DEMOCRAT'S Family members. Michelle and the kids, are sacrosanct. Sarah Palin, and her Daughters are C*NTS and WHORES and MILFS and SLUTS, and are Fodder for RAPE JOKES, from the washed up late night "comics".

And, who can forget the Reverence to Mrs. Can't Keep It In His Pants Edwards. Oh my God, she's got Cancer. We must all stand back and give her room, and nobody better EVER say anything bad about her. NEVER!

Meanwhile, Ann Romney is a Stupid, Lazy, Rich Bitch, who never Gets off her Ass and goes outside, let alone get a job at an Abortion Clinic or at The New York Times, where the Truth goes to die, instead of the Liberal Disease known as "The Baby". ( You don't wanna get PUNISHED with on of those.) And, she's not even a Lesbian, or a Black Single Mom on Crack, turning tricks on the side to make her Welfare Check stretch further.

I would say that this is just one more example of the Total Hipocracy of the Left, and another display of hoe ROTTEN, and what MFers these Buckets of Sh*t, are. Every last one of them would look perfectly natural with a Swastika on their sleeve, ans a couple S's on their Collar. Think about it.

It's the LEFT that Kills Cops. It's Obama's Leftist buddies who Blew Up Recruiting Stations, and BOMBED the Pentagon. It's the Left that Rallies to the aid of Black Radicals, in prison for Killing a Cop. It's the Left that Sh*ts on Police Cars. It's the Left who wants ISRAEL destroyed. They are the ones in the Flotillas. It is the Left that DEMANDS Tolerance for everything that THEY want, and God help anyone who feels differently.

I really don't see the problem with Romney's Religion. I notice that a lot of Democrats are Scientologists, and last I looked, nobody had a problem with that.

We've got that POS Keith Ellison, in Michigan. He's a Muslim. He belongs to the Religion of Peace that spends all of its time trying to KILL everybody who ISN'T a member of the Religion of Peace.

Obama is a Muslim. He was born to a Muslim Father. Had a Muslim Step Father. Was raised in Muslim Indonesia's Muslim Schools and Mosques. He's a very close friend to Nation of Islam's Louis Mother Wheel Farrakhan. He's a long time good buddy to the Black Panthers, the Weather Undergrounders, and all of the Reliable Black Race Hustlers who turn up the volume on the televisions, and go to the kitchen for another Malt Liquor, when all of their Black Brothers in their Hood are killing each other, cause they wanna be able to HEAR, should there be news of one of the more RARER Incidents in this Country. The killing of a Black, by a Non Black, preferably, by a White.

Romney's Religion is gonna be a real problem.

Really?

Two can play this game, and this Election is too important to the survival of this Country, to be playing any P.C. Bullshit Games.

THEY DON'T.

And, neither should we.

Frekki| 4.18.12 @ 10:14AM

Tell us how you really feel.
Ok, seriously, I hear more and more of what you say everyday here in the midwest. More and more people I talk to are starting to get mad. Will it be enough, I hope so.

Bob Miller| 4.18.12 @ 10:31AM

Obama's actual religion is socialism; the rest is either protective cover or socialism in the guise of religion.

JT| 4.18.12 @ 6:31PM

He's athiest marxist to the core, religion is a cover, nothing more. He's his own God. Remember when the pols showed that a percentage of Americans thought he was a Muslim and not Christian? He showed up in a well rehearsed photo op at church the next Sunday. Been back Since?

Pelleas| 4.18.12 @ 2:26PM

"I notice that a lot of Democrats are Scientologists, and last I looked, nobody had a problem with that."

..REALLY?

WHO--EXACTLY? (AND ..IF SOME might be..they would be very Conservative, and to YOUR liking, as Scientology espouses a very right-wing philosophy.

"Obama is a Muslim. He was born to a Muslim Father. Had a Muslim Step Father. Was raised in Muslim Indonesia's Muslim Schools and Mosques. He's a very close friend to Nation of Islam's Louis Mother Wheel Farrakhan."

OH,REALLY??...

That is just more of your "off-your-meds" crazy talk.

EVEN ( and I say EVEN, just for agrument's sake..) if Obama turned out to be Muslim ( the same day that pigs sprout wings and fly)--WHAT EXACTLY would be the problem with that--since we are discussing the alleged hatred of one political group towards another's religion...eh?

I WANT VERIFIABLE PROOF that President..or even candidate Obama EVER was in the same room with Minister Farrakken.. let alone being "very close friends" with one another

Your insane hatred is quite breath-taking!!

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 2:38PM

Obama took part and help organize Farrakhan's "million man" march, that is a fact. It is also a known fact that Rev Wright and Farrakhan are very close friends and in fact paid a visit together to Gaddafi in the 80's when he was at his terrorist height and would shortly have one of his lackeys blow up a Pan-Am flight. This is all easily discovered by google idiot.

Pelleas| 4.18.12 @ 3:00PM

"Obama took part and help organize Farrakhan's "million man" march, that is a fact"

Proof of this "fact?"--if you please....

Wright and Farrakhan being "friends" ( if that one could be proven, which is rather dubious..) DOES NOT EQUAL Obama being a "very close friend" of Farrakhan--does it?

(And even if he were..so WHAT???)

btw- ya MIGHT make your arguements/opinion/ a little easier to respond to in a reasonable manner by not calling people who question you as being "idiots"..nu?

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 3:33PM

http://littlegreenfootballs.co.....khan&only;
There you go you idiot. You feel free to smear other people without actually finding out what the facts are, look at the insults you hurled you damn hypocrite. Those are Obama's own words and yet you say we are smearing him. And you even admit it would not bother you if HE WERE A CLOSE FRIEND OF A RACIST! Fact is there is no difference really between Rev Wright and Farrakhan, they both hate America, white people and traditional Christianity. I know the facts don't matter to people like you but I will expose you for being the ignorant hypocrites you are.

Pelleas| 4.18.12 @ 3:53PM

I am not an idiot

Ok..so Obama attended the million man march-- that is a far cry from helping to organize it no?

I never said I endorsed anyone being a close friend of a racist

None of the people in question..as different as their views might be from yours, "hate" America--traditional Christianity-or White people, per-se-- they might resent some of the crimes that have been committed under those groups names, however,,nu?

where is my hypocracy, pray tell?

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 6:22PM

He was a community organizer remember? Of course he was involved in getting Chicago blacks to go, that was his job after all. Like he would just want to go and not make a name for himself while doing it.

You attacked TLP and called him insane when what he said was quite factual though his in your face style is going to grate on liberals like you. The fact that you will say something is insane or a lie before even making the effort to verify it shows your lack of intellectual honesty. Maybe I should say you are intellectually dishonest instead of an idiot. And you said even if he was a close friend of a huge racist hater like Farrakhan, so what? I think it is rather hypocritical stance to attack TLP for his "insane hatred" but you seem rather quick to make excuses for the "insane hatred" of someone like Rev Wright and Farrakhan if their association makes Obama looks bad.

And your moral relativism is rather disgusting, like America today which offers the greatest opportunity for all races and creeds should be slandered by the likes of those racist haters. There is Rev Wright saying how terrible and racist a country is with Obama sitting in his pews and he gets elected President? There is alot of irony right there for you and not the good kind.

Pelleas| 4.18.12 @ 7:37PM

You "assume" way too much, without ACTUAL FACTS to back up your "factual claims":

The FACT that Obama was a Community Organizer does NOT automatically translate to the dubious assurance ( by you) that he was actively involved in setting up the March itself--unless you have concrete proof, otherwise- saying it is so doesn't make it so..

Playing "devil's advocate" for a second--EVEN if he was involved--SO WHAT??-- IT WAS A legal demonstration, with many organizations participating in it..SO WHAT??

I refer to the poster in question as "insane" based on reading his nauseating ultra -racist spew on this site, every day( who takes isolated incidents and damns an entire race with them)...so-- I have a "factual" basis for my bias-- unlike the poster who seems to take his style from the playbook of some of the greatest haters of the past-- if that doesn't "grate" on anyone of good faith-regardless of their political affiliations, then I don't know what to say...

O.F. A.N. A.S.S.| 4.18.12 @ 7:53PM

The wool on the backs of the necks of we sheep are raised in fight or flight instinctive reaction to this commentator.

We sheep want verifiable proof that this commentator is not on the barn door most sodomizer list.

We sheep suspect this commentator is really #4.

Ovines For
A Nation
Absent Species Sodomization

Cynic| 4.18.12 @ 5:24PM

So then we should be concerned about Romney's ties to Mexican polygamists too, right?

JP| 4.18.12 @ 10:19AM

So, which is it? Is Mitt an unabashed Blue Blood Country Club RINO, or is he some religious nut job who wishes to replace the Constitution with the Ten Commandments?

Renaissance Nerd | 4.18.12 @ 3:58PM

Only too true. They'll be doing it for months to come, see-sawing between 'freakish hyper-conservative' and 'weather-vane.'

Jill Johnson| 4.18.12 @ 10:49AM

"The Party who spent the whole last election attacking Obama's srewball religious background hasn't got much to say when their own candidate's screwball religion is attacked."

This, of course, is because Obama's screwball religion is so because it embraced anti-conservative, anti-American values. Romney's religion may seem odd theologically, but fits in with conservative values.

Alan Brooks| 4.18.12 @ 9:05PM

The overwhelming majority of Christians here in the Midwest tell me Mormonism is "apostate", they say it is not Christian.

Dan Allot is just another wannabee; maybe he thinks he can be another WFB- but he hasn't got what it takes.

Gerald | 4.19.12 @ 2:05PM

The real question is not about Mitt Romney's religion, a red-herring with people saying things that are lies and who fail to seek out truth.

The concern is whether or not citizens of the United States wish to join him in the fight against corruption in high places, at all levels, and in various social structures. You see Mitt's religions foundation, if you wish to understand it, is that the constitution of the United States was an inspired document for the protection of all faiths, creeds, and people of good will, no matter what or whom they worship—get it?

Mitt desires to restore the US to its rightful place and to uphold the constitution of the United States of America, for the people, which protects the liberties of all.

You do want your freedoms, liberties and rights protected, don't you?

Then do not be misguided by all the other junk out there, tons of lies and misguided people taking snippets out of context, hate mongers, people who are utterly intolerant of differing creeds, beliefs, or opinion.

Instead of attacking the fact that Mitt is for the constitution, which for some strange reason, many liberals are not in favor of, they attack the man’s religion, with lies, twisted truths, etc. in hopes to take him out, changing the focus.

It is not saying much for the media, and other writers who say all these lies just to create contention, stir the pot, get things boiling, rather than mending fences and seeing where we all agree, before focusing on differences. Start focusing on all the great qualities Mitt brings to the table that are awesome. We need his leadership now more than ever in the history of the US.

Come on people “No leadership,” Obama’s team of lies, and he is over his head and on the wrong side of freedom vs “Real leadership” Mitt is heads and shoulders above the alternative, and is a strong advocate of the constitution.

Bill| 4.20.12 @ 8:50PM

Good point, Jack. Liberals attacking Romney for being a Mormon??? How about Santorum?!

DRA2010| 4.23.12 @ 2:49AM

The problem is, Jack, if he were to stand up for his faith in public (whilst Governor of Massachusetts) in the same way he did whilst a Bishop of the Church of LDS, then he would (and should) have been impeached!

He wasn't elected by the Jews, Catholics, Muslims, Atheists, or whatever to be a Bishop of the CoLDS, he was elected to be the Governor of Massachusetts! Whatever his personal views are about issues such as abortion, homosexuality, & state-run healthcare, if the state legislature votes to make those activities legal, his OBLIGATION as the chief executive of the state is to implement those laws. His ONLY legal alternative is to resign as Governor.

Your distain of him for being a Morman in private and a Governor in public has the same smell of bigotry that Jack Kennedy had to endure because so many people thought that if elected the first Catholic President of the US, he would put the wishes of the Pope ahead of those of the American people! I see these discussions of Governor Romney's private beliefs as being no less bigoted, distasteful, and unjustified.

J| 5.5.12 @ 3:25AM

A couple of corrections of what you said.

● Mormons push of homosexuality as normal.
==> Mormons consider homosexuality is a disease.

● He told her it was her responsibilty to have the child, not kill it.
==> Yeah, he said that kind of stuff all right. But, he told many soon-to-be mothers to give up soon-to-be-born kids for adoption.
Romney was urging her to give up her soon-to-be-born son for adoption, saying that was what the church wanted. Indeed, the church encourages adoption in cases where “a successful marriage is unlikely.”
Romney said this to her, "Well, this is what the church wants you to do, and if you don’t, then you could be excommunicated for failing to follow the leadership of the church,"
Romney would later deny that he had threatened Hayes with excommunication, but Hayes said his message was crystal clear: “Give up your son or give up your God.”

Just read this and realize how horrible cult Mormon is.
http://www.vanityfair.com/poli.....ney-201202

drudge ette obama| 4.18.12 @ 8:14AM

I will vote for him, not for his religion, but because he is better than Obama. A President can't do a damned thing about what religion you can or can't practice. You can do that alone. Leave him to believe what he wants..at least he wasn't in Reverand Wright's stinking congregation.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 5:52PM

I think you mean "Leave him to believe what he wants unless he's President Obama, because then we'll scrutinize and demonize the shit out of him and his possible beliefs"

Got it.

;)

spike59| 4.19.12 @ 7:51AM

his 'possible beliefs'...who the heck knows WHAT ObaMao believes? he's CLAIMED to be a Christian, yet publicly rejects the central core of Christ's teachings, that Christ is THE way to salvation...he spent 20 years in a church where he never heard a thing the pastor was saying, he believes that the Muslim call to prayer is "one of the prettiest sounds on earth at sunset", has basted that his very nomination in 2008 healed the planet and caused the oceans to stop rising, and his wife claims that he's brought us all 'out of the dark and into the light'. I'm GUESSING that ObaMao isn't INTO worship as much as BEING WORSHIPED, but he could be a Pastafarian for all I know

Scott| 4.19.12 @ 1:17PM

(President Obama) "rejects the central core of Christ's teachings, that Christ is THE way to salvation."

How can you say that with such conviction?

Alan Brooks| 4.18.12 @ 9:08PM

Allott is writing this to impress his people at American Values, he thinks he will be another big time writer--
he and another two million or so.

Darin| 4.18.12 @ 7:29AM

It's amazing how a liberal can claim to be a Christian yet advocate killing unborn children, promote/celebrate the gay lifestyle, and a host of other things which are most definitely NOT part of true Christian teaching. And that liberal will get a pass. Yet a conservative Mormon gets whacked for actually following the teachings of their religion. Insanity, thy name is liberal.

Gary B| 4.18.12 @ 7:36AM

How 'bout we turn the conversation around to Marxism, the religion of the left?

Bumper sticker: "Mormon or Marxist?"

W| 4.18.12 @ 8:49AM

I like that, Gary.

spike59| 4.19.12 @ 7:52AM

or, "I'll take a Mormon over a Moron any day"

Anthony| 4.18.12 @ 10:33AM

"Mormon or Muslim Marxist, no contest".
If Obozo is going to make this the dirtiest, nastiest, and most vicious campaign in America's history, we need to go all in.
Obozo's past must be re-visited, especially the fact that he was born and remains a Muslim, all protests to the contrary.
What's Obozo and his scum handlers, like Axelrod, going to say, that being a member of Rev. Wright's "Christian" church is better than being a Muslim?? I don't think that's a winner, do you???

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 6:08PM

"If Obozo is going to make this the dirtiest, nastiest, and most vicious campaign in America's history."

Um, no...that would be YOU GUYS. Nice projection though. ;)

Anthony| 4.18.12 @ 6:58PM

Yeah, right fool, just like McLame, who wouldn't even allow his campaign staff to use Obozo's middle name, or allow the N.C. Rs to discuss Obozo's Muslim connection, which is why McLame lost the election.
Like W, who took more shots by vile Ds than all the pinantas in all of Mexico.
Obozo's pit bull, Alelrod, has already let the cat out of the bag telling the world Obozo's campaign is going nasty big time.
I guess you just got your head out of your ass and missed the memo.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 7:43PM

What are they gonna do, Anthony, show Romney in a witch-doctor outfit with a bone in his nose?

Question his citizenship?

Tell people he has a "Mexican, polygamist anti-imperialist mindset?"

LOL!

BTW, leave my head and my ass out of it please.

spike59| 4.19.12 @ 7:54AM

If Obozo is going to make this the dirtiest, nastiest, and most vicious campaign in America's history
------------------
IF? so far, as pointed out on Red Eye, ObaMao's campaign has 3 main talking points against Romney:

1-he's rich
2-he made his dog ride on top of the car
3-he's a Mormon

Scott| 4.19.12 @ 1:20PM

Right, RedEye is the go-to source for an insightful scrutiny of the president's campaign. LOL!

Appleby| 4.18.12 @ 7:50AM

I was a Mormon and engaged to a Mormon back in the 1970s. I will not vote for a man who believes that when he dies, he will become a God, and he will create his own planet, which he and his harem of wives will populate with people who will then worship him. Yes, there are good upstanding Mormon citizens, and yes, there is no religious litmus test to be President...but NO, the Mormons are NOT Christians no matter that they invoke the name "Jesus" in their religion. Mormons believe that Jesus is a separate being from both God and the Holy Spirit, and Mormons don't baptize in the name of the Holy Trinity.

So far in the USA one is not compelled to vote, and I will not vote for someone I cannot support.

Keith I| 4.18.12 @ 8:03AM

Fine.....Go TF Away

richard ryan| 4.18.12 @ 1:02PM

Exactly. When we are 20 trillion in debt and interest rates finally go up, as they must, we are in deep do-do. We will not be able to service our debt let alone balance the budget. A wicked, accelerating cycle that will do us in as a nation. But APPLEBY will be so damn proud that he/she didn't support a Mormon candidate. When the s-- hits the fan, Appleby, don't forget I told you so. EVERY VOTE COUNTS!

Appleby| 4.18.12 @ 4:30PM

When the Last Trumpet sounds, you won't get a vote, Junior. That's a vote you'll have to have cast BEFORE that happens. That's the vote I'm casting, and it's far more important than any election we will ever be asked to vote in on Earth.

"Choose you this day whom you will serve...but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

That's the vote I'm casting. Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 6:26PM

Well I don't want to hear your complaining about Obama anymore because anyone who won't vote against him this election has no credibility. Good luck with your life

P.Smith| 4.18.12 @ 8:47AM

Just wait until the media finds out about Romney's Mormon Magic Underwear. The Latter Day Saints believe wearing the temple garment will protect them from harm, so I guess there will be some savings because the Secret Service will not be required to protect Romney and his family. Christians also won’t be too happy when they find from Matt Lauer on the Today Show that Mormons believe that Jesus Christ and Satan are brothers. They really won’t like it when the Chris Matthews has a show on MSNBC about the teachings of Brigham Young such as the first man Adam is actually God, and that Adam(God) physically had sex with Mary and conceived Jesus. But really the leftward media will have a legitimate point, if a man believes such a silly thing, how will he not be deceived by evil people like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or Harry Reid (Isn’t he a mormon too?). Many will have a difficult time voting for a man like this.

Bob Miller| 4.18.12 @ 10:28AM

Is there nothing far nuttier than this in Obama's outlook?

P.Smith| 4.18.12 @ 1:47PM

Good point.

Obama's world view is probably based on about the same amount of truth as Mormonism.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 2:45PM

Like that is some secret you bigot jerk. It is not to protect from physical harm but to remind us of promises made to God that will protect us from spiritual harm. Do you care what Chris Matthews or anyone on MSNBC has to say? Like anyone watches that stupid show anyways. Throwing out the false Adam God accusation, a staple of anti-Mormons. You forgot the blood atonement, kind of like the blood libel against Jews bigots like you used to incite pogroms against them back in the day.

P.Smith| 4.18.12 @ 3:55PM

ToddS do you deny the teachings of your prophet Brigham Young?

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 6:28PM

My prophet is Thomas S Monson and that is certainly not a doctrinal belief. What kind of Christians watch MSNBC anyways?

W| 4.18.12 @ 8:50AM

You prefer a Marxist over a Mormon.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 9:12AM

What Church do you now attend Appleby?

Appleby| 4.18.12 @ 4:31PM

The Roman Catholic church.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 6:29PM

Well you should keep your mouth closed about attacking the Mormon Church. You really want me to dig through the history of the Roman Catholic Church? One word for you, Borgia

Ryan| 4.18.12 @ 9:17AM

It's not the heretical religious views, it's the outright rejection of history that Mormons have.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 10:15AM

Explain

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 12:06PM

...they're not Catholics...

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 1:09PM

Dr.Reich's A Lapsed Catholic With An Ax To Grind.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 3:15PM

Clint's a dumb guy.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 3:20PM

Dr.Reich's The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooge,Who Said He'll Vote For The Ruling Elites' Fop Frontman, Mittens Romney.

We Are Being Set Up By The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 3:56PM

Dr.Reich A Dumb Girl.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 4:51PM

Clint is sooooo dumb he tries to put his M&M's in alphabetical order...

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 7:47PM

Dr.Reich's So Dumb He Throws Away The W's.

Ryan| 4.18.12 @ 12:28PM

The entirety of the Book of Mormon is based on a historical premise that simply never happened, and has no real historical proofs behind it - and, in fact, has proofs which oppose many of its statements.

Like...wheels.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 12:45PM

Find me a historian who says there is proof of Adam and Eve or of Noah's Ark Ryan. Can you say you know what people were living in the America's thousands of years ago?

Ryan| 4.18.12 @ 2:25PM

Well, we at least have massive cultural evidence of some large-scale catastrophe in the time around when Noah was around - practically every ancient culture has a flood story.

But that was thousands of years ago.

The history othe book of Mormon purports to cover is less than two thousand years ago, a time span generally verifiable even in native American cultures.

Not just that, but it claims that there are technological ideas - such as the wheel - which were in use at the period in a time and place where there were none.

It's not that there is just evidence that hasn't been found yet - what evidence we have actually points to contrary positions that the book of Mormon holds.

We KNOW that native American cultures during the time of the book of Mormon didn't have wheels. We KNOW they didn't have horses. We KNOW a definite portion of their history, and it doesn't support the historical claims of the book of Mormon.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 3:04PM

Jesus also said he had other sheep of his fold that he would visit, do you know where these people were? It does not mention wheels in the Book of Mormon once, I have read it several times and you have not. About the horses, it is mentioned just once and it is speculated that Nephi is comparing a large mammal called a Tapir that is similar to a horse. Remember they were coming from a land where there were horses so they would compare them to things they already knew. Of course people like you will make a mountain over a molehill about it. There is very little known about natives in the Americas at the time of Christ that historians could tell you about.

I don't dispute Noah or Adam myself but if you want historical proof for everything in the Bible, you will find many gaps. Try listening to any of the Ivy League educated theologians who are always very willing to dispute just about any biblical event. There is a little something called faith and not requiring evidence for everything in order to believe.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 3:17PM

Faith without ANY evidence is blind faith.

There's NO historical evidence to support anything in the Book of Mormon.

Zero. Zilch. Nada.

There is a LOT of evidence in support of the Old and New Testament in terms of historical accuracy.

I don't have anything against Mormons...and I plan on voting for Romney, too. But since you brought it up, it's going to be thrown right back at you.

Mormonism is not historically justifiable. Sorry.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 4:03PM

Do you know there were 8 witnesses to the Golden Plates and three additional witnesses to an Angel declaring them to be true? It is a fact of history that though a good many of these witnesses fell away from the Church and became embittered, none of them ever disputed their testimonies because they knew it was true. If it was not true, they would have had every reason to say it never happened and it would have made them very popular with some people to do so. Oliver Cowdery is a particularly powerful example of this
but despite his very bitter feelings, he did not want to be damned by God. You can tell us all you want about there being no historical evidence but we have evidence in ourselves of the fruits of the spirit and it is certainly not blind faith.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 4:59PM

Interesting.

And where are those "Golden Plates" today?

Gone to heaven? That's convenient!

And where is ANY archeological evidence in support of the Lamanites or the Nephites in the Americas?

Was it ALL destroyed? ALL of it? Every last building, book, urn, plate, or cup? ALL of it?!?!?

That's convenient!

And where's the genetic evidence linking the indigenous peoples of the Americas to the 12 tribes of Israel??

And what about the Mormon Church's modern-day disavowal of plural marriage (polygamy)? How do they get away with calling it wrong today, when they sanctioned it with scripture in the 1800's???

Hmmmmm????

In fact polygamy was arguably the most sacred credo of Joseph Smith’s church—a tenet important enough to be canonized for the ages in The Doctrine and Covenants, one of Mormonism’s primary scriptural texts. The revered prophet taught that a man needed at least three wives to attain the “fulness of exaltation” in the afterlife. He warned that God had explicitly commanded, “all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same… and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory."

Sorry, but Mormonism is a SHAM.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 5:08PM

11 people other than Joseph Smith saw them and testified to its truth and never departed from that even when they left the Church. Explain that one to me Doctor Right? Do you need to see the Ark of the Covenant to believe that Moses received the Ten Commandments from God? And it is bs about the 3 wives but par for course for anti-Mormon bs.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 6:21PM

So you're denying that Joseph Smith had multiple wives?

And you're also denying what Smith himself wrote?

And no, I don't need to see the Ark of the Covenant to believe that it existed. The Ark of the Covenant is but one part of the Old Testament, and is not in any way CENTRAL to the Christian Faith.

Nice try...still won't answer the questions though, will you?

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 6:34PM

I don't deny Joseph Smith had multiple wives but there is nothing about 3 wives, I have actually read it unlike you just getting it from some anti-Mormon site. And how do you know the Bible is true and translated correctly? You have to admit the history of the witnesses is impressive and it befuddles you because you have no rational explanation for it. Guaranteed if it was all a lie at least one of them would have denied it when things went bad for them. You only need 2 or 3 witnesses in the Bible and he had 11 direct witnesses. You are left with talking about horses and wheels which have very little to do with it.

ruoutthere2| 4.20.12 @ 12:12AM

Sorry but you like many others on this site don't really know what you're talking about. Before you "judge" something or someone find out what the truth really is. Mormonism is one of the fast growing churches in the world. The Church of Jesus Christ of L.D.S takes upon it's self Christ name. The Church pays taxes on everything it owns and everything is paid for including the "temples" before they are dedicated to the Lord. The Book of Mormon is a second witness to the truthfulness of God's gospel. Everyone born has the opportunity to "chose for themselves", no one pushes or demands anything. We each are accountable for our own sins and bunching us together like Obama wants to do will not work. It's your soul and U are responsibile 4 it. There is a lot more evidence if you go to an L.D.S. org site. Don't believe what others say watch channel byutv, it's real and will tell u the truth. Whether u believe in the members or not they give, sacrifice,are healther and children are college education is greater than most.

Lastly, Obama is not and never was eligable to be President. "He" was not a natural born citizen. He was raised and educated by a group who wants to bring down America. He spent less time in the Senate than most and "voted" by absent t ballot. So he really had no experience to be President. Almost anyone who has had his own business was more qualified.. Then if u don't want to believe that, take a look at all of your "freedoms" he has already taken from you. He has control to call "martial law" at his will. He has taken or is in the process of controling your communition ( radio, t.v. and internet), he has control over your access to energy(means he can cut it off anytime he wants also your gasoline and gas). He tells u what to feed your children, tells u what you can believe(no Christ),control your cars and charge u for every mile u drive.By the way this list could go on and on. Look it up if u don't believe. He hasn't listen to Congress at all,by going over there heads and declaring "his little pen" having more control and better judgment than any of them. He kept refusing offers that were made and pushed a "obamabill" down our throats that already is costing a fortune and our doctors. He's had Reid from the Senate refuse to allow any of the 37 bills that were offered by the House. After all this go back and compare every speech he's given and you will find somewhere in it he "lied". There's plenty of truth if u really want to know it.

ruoutthere2| 4.20.12 @ 12:13AM

Sorry but you like many others on this site don't really know what you're talking about. Before you "judge" something or someone find out what the truth really is. Mormonism is one of the fast growing churches in the world. The Church of Jesus Christ of L.D.S takes upon it's self Christ name. The Church pays taxes on everything it owns and everything is paid for including the "temples" before they are dedicated to the Lord. The Book of Mormon is a second witness to the truthfulness of God's gospel. Everyone born has the opportunity to "chose for themselves", no one pushes or demands anything. We each are accountable for our own sins and bunching us together like Obama wants to do will not work. It's your soul and U are responsibile 4 it. There is a lot more evidence if you go to an L.D.S. org site. Don't believe what others say watch channel byutv, it's real and will tell u the truth. Whether u believe in the members or not they give, sacrifice,are healther and children are college education is greater than most.

Lastly, Obama is not and never was eligable to be President. "He" was not a natural born citizen. He was raised and educated by a group who wants to bring down America. He spent less time in the Senate than most and "voted" by absent t ballot. So he really had no experience to be President. Almost anyone who has had his own business was more qualified.. Then if u don't want to believe that, take a look at all of your "freedoms" he has already taken from you. He has control to call "martial law" at his will. He has taken or is in the process of controling your communition ( radio, t.v. and internet), he has control over your access to energy(means he can cut it off anytime he wants also your gasoline and gas). He tells u what to feed your children, tells u what you can believe(no Christ),control your cars and charge u for every mile u drive.By the way this list could go on and on. Look it up if u don't believe. He hasn't listen to Congress at all,by going over there heads and declaring "his little pen" having more control and better judgment than any of them. He kept refusing offers that were made and pushed a "obamabill" down our throats that already is costing a fortune and our doctors. He's had Reid from the Senate refuse to allow any of the 37 bills that were offered by the House. After all this go back and compare every speech he's given and you will find somewhere in it he "lied". There's plenty of truth if u really want to know it.

Ryan| 4.18.12 @ 4:19PM

Jesus was clearly referring to Gentiles when he made that statement. Any other interpretation is folly.

Chariots, mentioned in the book of Mormon, require two things - wheels and horses.

It's not about mountains out of molehills. It's a combination of cultural and technological evidentiary claims made by Mormons which NO archaeologist or historian outside of the book of Mormon gives credence to - unlike the Bible, where even some of the most atheistic opponents in those fields give some minor credence toward at times. The wikipedia article on archaeology and the book of Mormon is pretty concise about ALL the issues that, when combined, show that the historical claims don't add up.

Faith is built upon real evidence, and does not discount what is to the contrary.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 5:26PM

http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_.....s/Chariots

I don't expect you to try to understand the nuance involved as you want to believe what you believe but anyone with a fair mind could see you are making a mountain of a molehill.

You want me to believe it is entirely possible for Noah to build an Ark for every animal to go on but it is impossible for a group of people to travel from the Middle East to the Americas before Christ. It is very easy to disbelieve most things in the bible if you demand evidence for it. You accept it because that is how you were raised and accept it on faith because you believe God is our creator. I am not going to spend my time trying to convert you because I honestly do not care but if you think you can slander the LDS Church and Mitt Romney here, I will oppose it. You want to act like you have the moral high ground but that is fantasy in your mind.

Appleby| 4.18.12 @ 4:36PM

Do you know that a very large number of "scientists" jeered at the Bible's chapters concerning the Hittites, saying there were no such people -- until archaeologists found them?

Have you heard that "historians" mocked people who believed there was such a place as the City of Troy -- until Schleimman found it?

Just because it hasn't been found yet doesn't mean it never existed. Tomorrow is another day.

P.S. Do you know that the whole edifice of Jews coming the America in a submarine was premised on the belief that the "Indians" were too degenerate to have ever created the civilizations that archaeologists of the time when the Book of Mormon was "found" were beginning to excavate, that only "White" people could have created these civilizations, and the Indians only destroyed them, for which they were cursed with "red skins" unti they repented and were baptized, and then they'd be "White, clean White" in Heaven? Fun stuff, eh?

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 5:33PM

Well Appleby, it appears you are making my point for me. Just because it has not been found yet doesn't mean it never existed. Your PS stuff is absurd, I have never heard of anything like that before.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 6:23PM

The human genome has been mapped.

We can say with ABSOLUTE certainty that the indigenous peoples of North and South America have NO genetic connection to the Sephardic peoples of the middle east.

There goes the entire Book of Mormon...right out the window.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 6:39PM

Well Doctor, we know scientists could never be wrong about anything and have a perfect knowledge on all things. The same one who say we descended from apes in Africa and people have been living in the Americas for tens of thousands of years? Well I guess the whole Bible is phony and there is no God then, that is what some scientists said. There are also the scientists who tell us man made global warming is going to destroy the world, they couldn't be wrong could they?

Ryan| 4.19.12 @ 9:45AM

At the same time, we cannot discount what they have learned. Your arguments - and the typical Mormon arguments - have a tendency to overstate the other side "scientists could never be wrong about anything," and they have a tendency to stretch and reach for evidence and ignore the standard idea that the simplest, easiest explanation is often the best.

Which tends to be - if Joseph Smith's descriptions are taken at face value and not over-analyzed, they simply don't hold up - particularly when you step back and look at them as a whole.

Todd S| 4.19.12 @ 10:29AM

There have been alot of shyster religious frauds. If that is all Joseph Smith was, how did his Church continue to grow so much stronger even after his death? I am sure the people who killed him thought that would be the end of Mormonism but they could not have been more wrong. Look at the fruits of the Church, go to Salt Lake and tell me it is just a joke or go to any LDS Church on Sunday and tell me it is some weird cult. I tell you what is weird, going to a Roman Catholic mass and insisting you are literally eating the body of Christ. Like I stated before, there were 11 witnesses to the Golden Plates and NOT ONE ever denied it even after many of them left the Church. But you can only believe if you see them with your own eyes right Ryan? Why don't you actually read the Book of Mormon with an open mind and tell me someone with a 3rd grade education could just write that off the top of his head instead of talking about the horse and wheel nonsense which has nothing to do with anything.

Ryan| 4.19.12 @ 3:28PM

There are actually quite a few false religions which have stood the test of time - Islam is the paramount example. That argument doesn't fly.

In fact, Mohammed's visions were similar to that of Joseph Smith - an incredibly imaginative and charismatic individual who actually may have had some sort of (literally) diabolical spiritual experience. Mohammed was even illiterate.

There's plenty of reason to be skeptical of the witnesses as well. Too many of them were too involved with Smith to recant, and sticking to their story doesn't necessarily verify the experience. How often have we seen powerful men conspire falsehoods and stick to their stories?

I am a Christian. There is plenty I believe on faith, based on evidences I have seen on other matters. I am also well-educated in history, and know full well that the claims made - such as chariots (which cannot be confused with litters in any case) in America, among a multitude of others - cannot hold factual, historical weight.

I have an open mind, and found Mormonism wanting.

Maybe you should have the open mind, and look at the evidences with an eye toward an idea of practicality and simplicity rather than trying to over-explain historical ideas which have no proof.

Bruce| 4.18.12 @ 9:38AM

When I was baptized into the Baptist faith, I wasn't baptized in the name of the Holy Trinity either. I was Baptized in the name of three specific entities, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. When Jesus was on earth and prayed or cried out to His Father, was He speaking to Himself? The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three different beings with one purpose.

Vern Crisler| 4.18.12 @ 12:15PM

Under any definition of historic Christianity, you would be labelled a heretic.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 12:48PM

Catholics would have burned you at the stake back in the day that is for sure. You just aren't suppose to understand it according to the Nicene Creed, leave that to the "experts" or pay the price.

Vern Crisler| 4.18.12 @ 1:07PM

Protestants would have run you into Mexican territory. Oh wait, that's what they did.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 1:49PM

Well I don't think Utah was really Mexican territory, not in any meaningful way. Better that than being burned at the stake or torture like the Catholics and the Church of England did. At least there was somewhere to go where they could worship as they pleased being left alone for the most part besides the awful James Buchanan. He is in Jimmy Carter and Obama territory for terrible presidents.

Vern Crisler| 4.18.12 @ 2:54PM

Agree with you about Buchanan.....though I'd also place Andrew Johnson in the same league.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 3:19PM

When Catholics argue with Mormons...

...the silliness starts to fly.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 3:31PM

Dr.Reich's American Spectator's Resident Lapsed Catholic Turned Ax Grindin' Anti-Catholic Bigot.

Aaaaand,
Dr.Reich's The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooge,Who Said He'll Vote For The Ruling Elites' Fop Frontman, Mittens Romney.

We Are Being Set Up By The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 5:09PM

Aaaaand...Clint is sooooo dumb he sold his car for gas money.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 7:54PM

Dr. Reich's So Dumb He Sits On His TV To Watch His Couch.

W| 4.18.12 @ 4:50PM

Why are we arguing among Catholics, Protestants, and Mormons when the issue is Obama ruining the country. This is a no brainer if you have a functioning brain. The focus should be Obama. If you can't vote for Romney because he is a Mormon then you are a bigot. How is that any different than not voting for Lieberman because he is a Jew or Kennedy because he was Catholic or Bachman because she was a Bible Christian?
The country is in trouble and we are arguing nonsense, with Obama and Axelrod laughing.

Vern Crisler| 4.18.12 @ 5:23PM

I'm Protestant....What silliness?

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 3:30PM

The truth must be told...

ROMNEY IS A SECRET MEXICAN MORMON!!!

WHY HASN'T HE PERSONALLY SHOWN ME HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE!

:)

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 3:27PM

Wow, what a bunch of non-nonsensical Trinity semantics.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 10:31AM

So if you were actually a Mormon Appleby, why do you lie about baptism in the name of the Holy Trinity? Well you wouldn't be the first ex-Mormon to spread lies for some kind of imaginary vengeance. Aren't you a Catholic now? I leave Catholics alone unless they defame my religion because Catholics have no legs to stand on with their long sordid history.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 11:03AM

So Bring It, Mormon.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 11:22AM

Talking to Appleby not you

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 11:26AM

Talking To You, Not Appleby, Mormon Mouth.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 12:04PM

Tell me Clint, do you believe that you are literally eating the body of Christ?

Mike Hawk| 4.18.12 @ 12:31PM

Clint is all BS, just like his buddy Jack.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 2:27PM

Little Micky RINO-CINO Hawklette Is Eatin' Romney's BS.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 1:15PM

Tell Me Mormon Mouth, Do You Have A Bitch About Transubstantiation.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 1:52PM

If you want to make fun of Mormon beliefs, then your Catholic beliefs are fair game. That was a major issue in the reformation movement, many people saw it as a middle age superstition without any scriptural basis.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 2:07PM

Duuuuhhhhhh !

I Never Said A Word About Mormon Beliefs.

You're The Mormon Mouth, Who Started In On Catholicism When Another Poster Commented On Her Past Mormonisn & Current Catholicism.

Are You Speaking For Protestants Now, Mormon Mouth.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 3:09PM

I said I was referring to Appleby but she just wants to hit and run apparently. What kind of conservative refuses to vote against Obama? They have no credibility in my eyes and should shut their mouths about Obama from now on if they will not vote against him.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 3:20PM

Look...Clint just said "Duuuuh!"

That pretty much settles this debate.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 3:32PM

Dr.Reich's American Spectator's Resident Lapsed Catholic Turned Ax Grindin' Anti-Catholic Bigot.

Aaaaand,
Dr.Reich's The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooge,Who Said He'll Vote For The Ruling Elites' Fop Frontman, Mittens Romney.

We Are Being Set Up By The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

MyGirlFriday| 4.18.12 @ 3:48PM

Amen! Todd S

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 5:10PM

Clint does like the idea of having other guys in is mouth...

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 7:56PM

More Queer Talk From Mittens' Kitten Dr.Reich.

Michael| 4.18.12 @ 12:44PM

Clint doesn't like Jews or Mormons. Romney is a strong supporter of Israel.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 1:17PM

That's A Lie.

You're A Liar, Littler Micky.

My Buddies, Steve, Ron, Big Steve, Enosh, Ari Will Call You A Liar To Your Smear Bund Coward's Face.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 12:09PM

"Bring it"..?

Bring it where, Clint?

Is this another one of your faux, tough-guy challenges?

One of the other post-ers on this forum already gave you his address in Pittsburgh, and told you to put your money where your toothless mouth is...

...and you pussed-out.

In addition, I told you to meet me in Times Square last summer...

...and you pussed out.

No one buys your "manliness" anymore, dummy.

Clint = Teflon93

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 1:21PM

In Your Face, American Spectator's Resident Anti-Catholic Bigot, Dr.Reich.

Dr.Reich's The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooge,Who Said He'll Vote For The Ruling Elites' Fop Frontman, Mittens Romney.

We Are Being Set Up By The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

Duuuuhhhhhh !

Carolina's Tefon Supported Santorum, Anti-Catholic Smear Bund Bigot Liar, Dr.Reich.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 1:26PM

Come & Get Me Anti-Catholic Coward Liar,
Dr.Reich.

You Know Where To Find Me, Cupcake.

Your Mouth Is Writing A Check Your Body Can't Cash.

Come & Get Me, Rough Puff Coward, Dr.Reich.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 3:21PM

OK.

What's your address?

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 3:36PM

You Know Where To Find Me, Coward Dr.Reich.

Come & Get Me, Cupcake Coward.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 5:11PM

Pennsylvania is a large state, full of inbred dolts like yourself.

So what's your address, tough guy?

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 8:03PM

You're The New York Phoney Fraud Liar Coward, Who Tried To Get Me To Meet You At The Sears Tower In Chicago.

That's Queer.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 3:23PM

So much utter dumbness crammed into such a small space...

Did anyone notice that Clint/Teflon93 has about 6 or 7 total paragraphs that he robo-posts repeatedly, in endless combinations??

Does anyone else enjoy Clint's sheer stupidity as much as I do?

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 3:39PM

Tell It To Your RINO-CINO Mittens' Kittens Cheerleader Squad, Dr.Reich.

Dr.Reich's The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooge,Who Said He'll Vote For The Ruling Elites' Fop Frontman, Mittens Romney.

We Are Being Set Up By The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

Cpm| 4.18.12 @ 1:48PM

Clint can't crow about Dr. Ron Paul and his annointed successor Rand and their presidential dynasty any more so he has to channel the hate toward someone, but oddly, I've never seen him direct it at Obama, only other Republican candidates.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 2:10PM

Obama's An Asshole, Like You Cpm Job.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 3:25PM

Oooh...you told him, Clint/Teflon93!!!

Let's see...in just 6 or 7 posts, how many pseudo-gay references has Clint dropped?

Can anyone say "repressed closet-case?"

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 3:43PM

Uh Oh !

Are You Tellin' Us Ya Got Sugar In Your Pockets Now, Dr.Reich ?

Hmmmmmmm, RINO-CINO Mittens' Kitten ?

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 5:13PM

Sugar "in my pockets"..???

What does that mean, exactly?

Or is that some gay-type slang that only gays understand??? Kind of like when Rock Hudson used to ask people if guys were "musical"...

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 8:07PM

Apparently, Dr.Reich's Some Gay Type That Only Gays Understand.

MikeG| 4.18.12 @ 11:09PM

Clint
Do you have a job? You are here posting the same crap 24/7 . Are you on welfare living in your mommy's basement? How old are you, don't you have a life.

Appleby| 4.18.12 @ 4:39PM

The Mormons believe that Jesus Christ and God are two entirely separate beings, and that both were human men before they were promoted to gods. Name me one single Christian church that believes that to be true.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 5:02PM

Yes we believe that Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God and was resurrected after his death as he showed to his disciples and let them touch the prints of the nails in his hands and feet. We don't claim to know where our Heavenly Father came from exactly and the mystery of creation (and neither do you) but he has always been God the Father to us and always will be. About Jesus being a man, well it is scriptural that he was half man and half God hence the immaculate conception. Do you ever read C.S. Lewis? To borrow a quote from someone else on this thread.

It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest and most uninteresting person you talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship.
--C.S. Lewis

Anthony| 4.18.12 @ 10:49AM

Well Appleby, your moral compass is spinning out of control, and quite frankly, so are you. I don't know much about Mormonism, but there is NO religion that is not full of breath-taking suppositions.
If you think 7th century Islam, that treats women worse than cattle, and non believers to be destroyed, is a more acceptable religious premise than Mormonism, then I truly feel sorry for you. Whatever your problems are with Mormons, I'm afraid, they're mostly self -created.
I have liked your posts in the past, but now you've lost me as a sympathetic figure.
You need to do some soul searching, you're way far gone!!!

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 11:23AM

Well I for one don't want to hear about her complaining about Obama if she is going to refuse to even vote against him because of her religious bigotry, that is just pathetic.

idalily| 4.18.12 @ 11:43AM

Appleby, I usually find your posts insightful and logical, but this one? Uh, no. I could pick apart any religion, including the Catholicism I grew up in with the same sort of arguments. Kennedy really believed God impregnated a virgin? Seriously? I could go on, but I think you get the point. It's picking apart a religious faith, and that's no basis on which to choose a POTUS.

I don't give a crap what religion Romney is, except in the question of his moral center. He seems to have that; the rest is irrelevant. How will he GOVERN is the question. Obama's religious beliefs, such as they are, never seemed to have a moral center (quite the opposite, in fact), hence it made religion an issue for me in considering Obama (Reverend Wright's violent anti-American rhetoric made Obama's religion a serious concern. In Romney's case, it's irrelevent, IMO. He's got the moral center needed to govern. No, he wasn't my first choice, but he's all we got. And staying home is a vote for Obama. Sorry, but it is.

Gary| 4.18.12 @ 11:46AM

I agree I will not vote for a mormon or muslim. they aree both sttraight from hell.

The Bruce| 4.18.12 @ 12:30PM

Seems like a perfectly reasonable argument.

The Bruce| 4.18.12 @ 12:31PM

[/sarc]

Renaissance Nerd | 4.18.12 @ 4:05PM

Obviously you didn't pay attention in Sunday School, 'former Mormon' since you're completely wrong about our beliefs. And you believe that all the Arian Christians before the Council of Nicea weren't Christians? Which was a majority, hence Athanasius' banishment before he got the Emperor to enforce the synod's bare majority declaring the Trinity in Unity belief. A bunch of 4th century bishops are not the last word on who is a Christian and who is not. The Roman Church declared the Arians heretics, but not non-Christians. We Mormons don't deny the divinity of Christ, we simply don't buy the extra-Biblical Trinity-in-Unity dogma. Extra-Biblical as in, you can't find it in the Bible anywhere. You don't have to follow the Bible if you don't want to, but don't deny us the right.

Drunken Sailor| 4.18.12 @ 5:02PM

"Mormons believe that Jesus is a separate being from both God and the Holy Spirit, and Mormons don't baptize in the name of the Holy Trinity."

I'm no religous scholar but coudn't the same be said of the Jews? So I take it, you wouldn't vote for them either?

J| 5.5.12 @ 3:37AM

Mormons believe Mormon church is the ONE and ONLY TRUE church. All other churches are WRONG? REALLY?
Mormons started this "Disrespecting other groups" from the begining of Mormon Cult.
The book of Moron says Black people are demons. If you want to be discriminate, fake it better~

No other religions have such so many BUSINESSES like Mormon Cult. Really? Below is just some of business mormon Cult own.
Mormon Cult collect so much money (10% of income) and own Financial Group, Hukilau Beach Park, 35 Radio Stations, La'ie Shopping Center, Water Company, Restaurant, Security Corporation, Deseret Farms of California (Modesto,CA), Trust Company, Brigham Young University,
http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon410.htm

Mormons fool dumb folks with their "fake-niceness-in-their-face."
People just choose not see who Joseph Smith and Mormon are.

Mormon posthumous proxy baptisms for Holocaust victims or Jews who are not direct descendants of Mormons has continued, despite church vows to stop such practices.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....92102.html

To Mormon people,
Jesus is blue-eyed, blonde-hair White guy.
Mormons truly believe black people are demons.
Joseph Smith said all other churches are WRONG.
Joseph Smith had over 27 wives.

Rmoney's great grandfather has MANY wives.

People should be very afraid Rmoney would change the law of marriage in the United States if he will be in the Oval Office.

Rmoney will make the law that gays and blacks should be killed
and marriage is between a man and MANY wives.

Mormon is just like communist North Korea. Joe Smith is just like Kim Jong Il.
They brain-washed people just do whatever they are asked without thinking. Believing in false cult make them believe false everything from the start.

Mormons just try to convert anyone alive and dead. Shame on Mormon cult. If Romney becomes the president of United States, he will make all the men to have several wives and make United States a Mormon country.

Watch South Park Season 7 Episode 12 and tell me if you guys are up for the whole country being crazy cult!

Mormon is Cult!

John Daniel| 4.18.12 @ 8:06AM

Surprise! Most of the effete media types are at best unchurched and generally godless, so religion of all stripes eludes them. But they do trade on racist, sexist and homophobic characterizations and this will be where the attack on Mormanism is unrelenting.

Lucy-Lee de Cortez| 4.18.12 @ 8:09AM

The Romneys, is their Mormonism an act?

Do good Mormons really pump $50 abortions and homosexual marriage, like the Romneys did?

No, I think not.

Now the Romneys, they do say theyre Mormons. But how do we know for sure?
By trusting the Romneys?
What a howl.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 12:09PM

No more than Catholicism is an act for most Catholics...

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 1:28PM

American Spectator's Resident Lapsed Catholic, Ax Grinding Anti-Catholic Dr.Reich's In The Building.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 3:26PM

American Spectator's Resident Closet-Case Is...Dumb.

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 3:44PM

Uh Oh !

More Queer Talk From Mittens' Kitten, Dr.Reich.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 5:13PM

Funny...But you never deny it.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 6:12PM

Dear DR. Right,

Gay-baiting liberals doesn't quite work the same way it does with you Righty-too-tighties. It's not an insult to us, because we're not gay haters and we're usually comfortable with our sexuality. LOL!

O.F. A.N. A.S.S.| 4.18.12 @ 7:58PM

Shee(p)sh.

We sheep know all about the comfort of the sexuality of all you liberal tyrant sodomizing sheep-baiters.

We sheep wish the barn door most sodomizer list could stay at only 10 of you at a time.

Ovines For
A Nation
Absent Species Sodomization

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 8:10PM

Funny That Dr.Reich Never Denies That He's A FunnyBoy

martin j smith| 4.18.12 @ 8:13AM

Gee willikers I would never have thought that Mormonism or any other part of Romney's life would be excluded from the Communist Propaganda Mill. While I am no great supporter of Romney I will vote for him if he is in fact the nominee against Obama. But Left the Communists again show who they are. They are git that keeps on giving. Romney will have to show that he will stand for no intolerance of Religious beliefs and show how the Communists are the real racists,liars,homophobes,dividers,
and haters that voters should shun and vote against.

saleboter| 4.18.12 @ 8:26AM

I don't recall the mormons ever saying God damn America

Scorpio51| 4.18.12 @ 8:36AM

I haven't decided as yet whether I will vote for Romney being a "true believer." I would certainly have to ask for God's forgiveness if I did cast that ballot.

Being a "born again" Christian doesn't support a "religion" that believes they are God after death.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 9:17AM

Screw you idiot. Actually we believe what Paul taught that we become joint heirs with Christ, care to explain what he meant by that?

Ryan| 4.18.12 @ 9:21AM

Context, please.

Romans 8:14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

Nothing in the text you cite refers to any Godhood.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 10:19AM

You don't know what it means Ryan nor do you explain it at all. If Jesus is God and we become his joint heirs, what can we become? What do we do for all eternity Ryan? Sing in choirs? Yes he believe in eternal progression but that we are always subject to God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ.

fmm| 4.18.12 @ 10:43AM

Christian faiths teach the same exact thing.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 11:24AM

we believe

Ryan| 4.18.12 @ 12:34PM

There's nothing in scripture which states we obtain God-like powers. It's simply a conclusion which goes too far, which Mormons make off of verses like what you quoted.

In reality, a new heaven and a new earth, as promised in Revelation, may look similarly to the responsibilities Adam was given in the garden - to do work for God's glory - in a world without sin, or death.

Frankly, there isn't much overt in scripture about what it will definitely be, just a world without sin and death and disease.

If we stand around and sing and praise God for eternity, guess what - HE'S WORTH IT. Creation was made to give Him glory in the first place.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 12:51PM

You really think that is what God intends for us? He doesn't have anything grander in mind for his children? We don't pretend to know everything that happens in the next life but eternal life is about becoming like God, not becoming God.

Ryan| 4.18.12 @ 2:28PM

God gets to define what is grand. God gets to define what is best and right and good.

Where in scripture does it point that we attain some sort of godhood?

Will Not Vote For RMoney| 4.18.12 @ 3:10PM

You're right Ryan & nowhere in scripture does it say we will become just like God. God is infinitely Holy. We will be perfected & made Holy through sanctification & through the work of The Holy Spirit, but we will in no way be as Holy as God Himself. God is not like us & we are not like God.
As for Mitt Romney I will not vote for him because he is a liberal Republican, not because he's a Mormon. That is between Mitt Romney & God. That being said I agree Mormonisn is a cult. For an excellent read on the attributes of God which are unattainable by sinful human beings (all of us from Adam & Eve to the present & beyond) pick up a book entitled "Gripped By The Greatness Of God" by Rev. James MacDonald. Very good read & will leave you in total awe of God, our creator & sustainer. Take care Ryan & go with God in all you do.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 3:17PM

Seems like you miss the whole point of the atonement of Jesus Christ and your beliefs are not scriptural. Like this Rev. James MacDonald has all the answers but I am sure he is more than glad to take your money and live the good life like so many preachers today. You know the Joel Osteen types who sell millions of books and have their mega Churches and live in huge mansions. You could throw Rev. Wright in that list though he is a very malignant breed.

Ryan| 4.18.12 @ 4:21PM

What does "atonement" mean?

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 4:51PM

To be made one with God through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ after we sincerely repent of our sins. It encompasses both his death and his resurrection that allows us to overcome physical and spiritual death.

Ryan| 4.19.12 @ 9:52AM

Mostly agree, though I suspect we may disagree about the how and whens of repentance.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 3:13PM

We become resurrected beings just like Jesus Christ and those that were faithful to him and repent can become joint heirs in Celestial Kingdom with him. That is scriptural and is what we believe.

Renaissance Nerd | 4.18.12 @ 4:12PM

It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest and most uninteresting person you talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship.
--C.S. Lewis

We will never be equals to God. No Mormon ever said that we would. We will always be His.

The problem is with the definition of God you're using. C.S. Lewis had a better concept of it; compared to what we are now, we will be gods in the realm of God. What we do will be at His direction, under His rule, and will be useful rather than useless. Nobody ever said anything about 'our own planets.' We have no idea, and it has not yet been revealed, exactly the dimensions of the fiefdom each exalted being will hold in God's dominion. It doesn't matter. We will remain servants of the Most High.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 4:47PM

Well put, C.S. Lewis is one of the great religious philosophers of the modern age. Fair to say he has alot more wisdom to impart than some guy named Rev. James MacDonald or Joel Osteen. It is interesting that Mormons can read a Protestant like C.S. Lewis and never find ourselves in disagreement because he speaks in wisdom and truth and was inspired by God.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 3:42PM

"Joint heirs"

Christ will share his pot stash with his flock?

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 4:48PM

You are a douchebag pure and simple

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 5:02PM

And you're a much more complex one.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 5:36PM

Go back to your weed stash and to reading the Daily Kos

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 6:17PM

LOL!

And you, sir, can go back to your magical underwear drawer and playing with your gold plates.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 6:42PM

Your religious bigotry is funny Scott. You have any good Jewish jokes you want to tell? I heard Rev Wright and Al Sharpton are very fond of Jewish jokes.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 7:49PM

I'm an atheist, Todd, so Wright and Sharpton get a taste of my sarcasm too.

Now I know most bigots seem to think everybody else must be a bigot too, so I understand where you're coming from.

You, however, need to stop acting like you know me.

You clearly don't.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 8:48PM

Atheist are usually the biggest bigots and haters of all like Bill Maher. Congratulations for believing in nothing.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 9:41PM

Thank you.

kwan| 4.18.12 @ 8:43AM

I don't think Romney's religious beliefs will somehow prevent him from doing the job that lies ahead: Which is cleaning up the mess created by four years of the worst President in the history of the United States.

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 9:13AM

" Slate's Jacob Weisberg has written that Romney's Mormonism should disqualify him for the presidency."

What an arrogant little prick.

Let's "massage" that sentence a little bit, for Mr. Weisberg's benefit:

" Die Welt's Manfred Totenkopf has written that Weisberg's Judaism should disqualify him for the presidency."

Weisberg...you're excrement.

Pelleas| 4.18.12 @ 10:24PM

Actually, Mr, Weisberg DID NOT SAY THAT Romney's Mormonism should be a disqualifying factor, AT ALL...

http://www.slate.com/articles/.....igion.html

sometimes, THE TRUTH should/can make a brief appearence, even on THIS site, no?

PattyMor| 4.18.12 @ 9:33AM

My objection to Romney is not his religion. Its TLT = The Liberal Thing. While his religion is conservative, he didn't govern that way. And one thing really nags at me, does he support gay marriage to kill the legal definition of marriage. That is one man and one woman to usher in polygamy?

Bruce| 4.18.12 @ 9:42AM

PattyMor;
It's time to give up the old "enforced polygamy" argument. The Church did away with the practice quite some time ago.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 11:27AM

That he supported gay marriage is a lie, he is the one who fought against it the hardest opposing the liberal sodomite supporters in Massachusetts. It is the same state that constantly re-elected Barney Frank after all even after a gay brothel was run out of his apartment.

The Big E| 4.18.12 @ 9:56AM

I am a Methodist who plans to hold my nose and vote for a Mormon over a Marxist, but let's have no illusions here, Romney's Mormonism gives the left something to focus their hatred on, but I assure all of you, they hate you and me and anyone else of faith every bit as much, and if they had their druthers, we would all be dead or locked up in re-education camps somewhere where could not pollute their perfect, godless Utopia.

Don't delude yourself people.

Vern Crisler| 4.18.12 @ 12:19PM

Right, liberals are only against religious discrimination or incivility when it comes to conservatives attacking Democrats. It doesn't work the other way around.

JP| 4.18.12 @ 10:21AM

I think most Conservatives look at Mitt with trepidation (they've seen his brand of Republicanism all too often). It isn't his religion that gives them pause. They will not vote for Mitt, but they will caste a vote against Obama.

Von Mises Jr| 4.18.12 @ 10:22AM

Marxism versus Mormonism

Collectivist v. Family
Faith in Government v. Faith in G-d
Entitlements v. Individualism
Greed and Envy v. Tithing
"Rules for Radicals" v. Book of Mormon
Obama the "messiah" v. Jesus Christ

Any questions???

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 11:32AM

Right on. Funny that so many so-called "conservatives" have so much animosity towards the Church that supports conservatism by the highest percentage of any major congregation. If you want to criticize Romney for not being conservative enough fine but when you attack his Church, you only show your bigotry and are no better than the liberal aholes on MSNBC and elsewhere.

Von Mises Jr| 4.18.12 @ 11:41AM

Right on, Todd. I am not Mormon, but I have been to Utah on vacation a few times. The Mormons are clearly very nice people, save the majority Leader who is a communist first and last.

Drek| 4.18.12 @ 11:52AM

They have a thing about caffeine too.

From what I've heard if you go to some restaurant in mormon world, and order coffee or tea or some such thing, --- you'll get what you asked for, along with a look.

Never been there myself.

Others can speak to whether that's an exaggeration or not.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 12:09PM

A huge exaggeration, we really do not care if people choose to drink coffee or tea but we believe excessive caffeine is not healthy. I like my Coke and it is not a problem.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 12:16PM

I mentioned earlier that Harry Reid has never held a significant leadership role in our Church (like Bishop or Stake President like Romney has been) and never will because his leftist politics comes before his religion. Funny people have all these misconceptions about Mormons and Utah that anyone has lived there or visited knows are ridiculous. Fact is Salt Lake City is infested with liberals particularly University of Utah but half the people there are not Mormon and many others are Mormon in name only. Utah is a great place to visit, you have amazing ski resorts and some of the greatest national parks anywhere like Zions, Canyonlands and Moab.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 3:39PM

Lets try to keep Temples and the White House separate please.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 4:15PM

What exactly is that suppose to mean? Bothers you more that Romney goes to the Temple to quietly contemplate his spiritual life than it did that Obama went to Rev Wright's hate mongering Church for 20 years? That is the liberal mindset for you

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 5:30PM

No, that is an AMERICAN mindset. Most Americans prefer a President that will be more loyal to the U.S. Constitution than their religious institution.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 5:37PM

Like Obama is loyal to the U.S. Constitution? Now that is a good laugh

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 5:57PM

How full were your classes when you taught Constitutional Law, Todd?

LOL!

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 6:46PM

Does teaching Alinsky make one a Constitutional Law Professor? Another lie you liberals are fond of, he was a guest lecturer and nothing more. I am familiar with Obama's disgust towards the Constitution for being a negative charter of liberty by limiting the power of the government, doing his best to turn that on its head with Obamacare but he only has 4 socialist judges to work with so looks like it is going down in flames.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 7:55PM

He was a guest lecturer at many schools, hater-hater-obfuscater, but he DID teach Constitutional Law as an Associate Professor.

What is wrong with you? Do you need to take away his accomplishments because of your hate or for your hate of his supporters.

You have ZERO credibility, you need help.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 8:51PM

I am stating a fact you moron, he has accomplished nothing productive in his whole life. I am quoting him directly about his dislike of negative charter of liberties and Obamacare is unconstitutional whatever the 4 socialists on the court think but it will be 5-4 against them.

Scott| 4.19.12 @ 1:26PM

"I am stating a fact you moron, he has accomplished nothing productive in his whole life."

No, you're stating opinions. Seriously, who's the "moron" here?

BTW, I put that word in quotation marks so that you can't say that I'm the one name calling on this thread.

Todd S| 4.19.12 @ 1:51PM

Getting degrees paid by other people and getting into Harvard because of affirmative action is no great accomplishment. Tell me exactly what he accomplished in his community organizing days in Chicago? Tell me what any community organizer has accomplished there? One big hellhole with people getting shot left and right. And what did he accomplish as a Senator? And what has he done as President to improve this country? Wasn't he suppose to help with race relations or something like that? Now that is a laugh

richard ryan| 4.18.12 @ 1:06PM

While this little argument about religion took place, our government borrowed another 200 million dollars. Just saying.

Scott| 4.19.12 @ 1:28PM

And millions of dollars of revenue were lost because of tax-cuts and loop-holes. Also just saying.

Bob Miller| 4.18.12 @ 10:25AM

I should think American voters this year would be way more uneasy with Communism in the White House than with Mormonism, but maybe I'm out of touch or something. After all, we somehow elected Obama the first time despite clear signs (even through the media fog) of his ideology. There are some things voters don't want to understand.

Mr Garrison| 4.18.12 @ 10:34AM

I wish some of these republican pansies would grow a pair and say "Oh, you want to talk about religion? Okay, lets here what Rev. Wright has to say about Mormans." And secondly, what is this, 1960, when people were afraid a Catholic president would make everyone eat fish on Fridays? And thirdly, if you can't accept the fact that Mormons are generally happy and love their families and aren't out to hurt anyone, suck my balls.

fmm| 4.18.12 @ 10:46AM

Of course the GOP could take the other tack and proclaim the election of Romney as a ground breaking expansion of tolerance and diversity by electing the first Mormon president.

Paul from SA| 4.18.12 @ 11:43AM

I am not against Mormons, but I admit ignorance.

What is a Mormon and why is Romney not a Christian?

Romney's religion will be a problem for many people who are ignorant -- until he answers their questions in public.

Vern Crisler| 4.18.12 @ 12:22PM

Mormonism is based on a fake history of early America, plus a few oddball theological formulations. They are regarded as heretical from the standpoint of history Christianity.

Drek| 4.18.12 @ 11:49AM

I said for the last 18 months, on this blog and elsewhere, that if we go with Romney, we'll all going to be forced to find out about mormonism than any of us ever wanted to, whether we wanted to or not.

That's all water under the bridge of course, but it is important for all of us conservatives to mention that because NR and others, such as those over at Commentary, dismissed the very idea that the left would attack Romney about his mormonism.

We were proven right, ----- yet again!

AND THAT needs to be driven home for those such as Lowry, Podhoretz, et al.

Vern Crisler| 4.18.12 @ 12:23PM

Dittos.....A Romney nomination will be more of a bad thing for Mormonism than it will be for Romney.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 1:56PM

Trust me that Mormons have no fear of bad publicity
and we have nothing to be ashamed of. What did Mormons ever do to you?

Dave Williams| 4.18.12 @ 11:53AM

Mormonism makes just as much sense as any other cockamamie belief system, i.e., christianity, islam, hinduism. Oh, for the day when a proud, honest believer in reality, science, and rationality, i.e., an atheist, can run for President! Since that will never happen in my lifetime, though, I'll be happy to cast my vote for Mitt, as he's got the better policies, and WHO CARES what nutty theology he believes, magic underwear and all.

Vern Crisler| 4.18.12 @ 12:24PM

According to the Bible, atheists are fools.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 1:59PM

Yeah, it could be just like the French Revolution where they worship the God of reason because we know just how "rational" godless people are. Lets be honest, Obama is an atheist and doesn't give a damn about religion though he sure likes to kiss Muslim ass.

Tammy Terrell| 4.18.12 @ 11:54AM

The libs goal is to get conservative Christians to get discouraged and stay home so the communist/socialist, usurper in chief with a fake BC and ss# can win again.

Tim| 4.18.12 @ 12:25PM

Tammy
That's it in a nutshell.

And if they succeed in the purple States Obama gets four more years.

It isn't that any conservative minded person would vote for Obama its how many in some key States will stay home.

If Obama Care is struck down, I believe many would stay home because the passion would have died down especially because of the Romney record.

Its not right or just but it is how politics 101 work.

tadcf| 4.18.12 @ 12:46PM

Would you be happy with someone as president who believe they were part of god's chosen people, and after they died---if righteous enough---they became a heavenly body, and ruled their star like a god? The beliefs of Christianity are bad enough.

AZ Bill| 4.18.12 @ 12:54PM

...it's always heart warming to see how inclusive liberals and rinos are...

martin j smith| 4.18.12 @ 1:00PM

As far as I am concernd those posters who believe that Romney's mormonism is an element in his political practice and will affect his ability to govern
are entitled to that view but depart from the. This election is about Obama's record and either you buy
it or do not. I do not. If you find or state any reason not to vote AGAINST OBAMA then inf act you are for him. And if so I say to you good by and good riddence.

Bill| 4.18.12 @ 1:29PM

I'm a Catholic, and Mormons are my Christian brothers. I will VOTE Mitt Romney because Obama is a Muslim.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 1:54PM

I'm sure Romney, his surrogates and the Christian Right will have nothing but respect for President Obama's faith. LOL!

Don't start nothing, won't be nothing.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 1:57PM

"The President is a Muslim"

Wishful thinking doesn't make it so. If the focus is going to be on religion this election (it shouldn't), it will be Christian vs. Mormon.

Read it and weep, Righty-too-tighties!

LOL!

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 2:06PM

Yeah, Obama is some "Christian" going to a black liberation Church for 20 years along with going to the mosque in Indonesia. Lets have that debate out in the open shall we Scott? Are you a white boy Scott? You know what Rev Wright thinks about white boys like you? "You are not now, nor have you ever been, nor will you ever be a brother to white folk," he said. "And if you do not realize that, you are in serious trouble." You are the enemy to him and Obama sat there for twenty years you stupid moron.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 3:04PM

Keep your racism to yourself please.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 3:19PM

Keep my racism to myself Scott? Just quoting Obama's preacher of twenty years you pathetic puke.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 3:40PM

and your name-calling too.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 4:17PM

I call a spade a spade. In your case, it is calling an idiot an idiot.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 5:05PM

Thank you for proving my point.

Bill| 4.18.12 @ 2:25PM

Scott, Obama was born in Indonesia. His father was a Kenyan Muslim, and Obama went to a Madrasa (Islamic Holy School) in Indonesia. The sad thing is that Americans don't know the truth about Obama because his past was concealed, and will never be revealed. Obama is a Muslim.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 3:11PM

Bill, try to remember that you live in America. Even if he WAS Muslim (although he's not), it wouldn't freakin' matter.

There are plenty of patriotic Muslim Americans. I served with some in the USMC.

God bless America and your freedom to be a racist.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 3:23PM

Rev Wright's freedom to preach racism and you can throw in Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson in that list of racist hustlers. How about Obama's buddy Eric Holder who called us all cowards while he licks the boots of Al Sharpton? F&*% that POS

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 3:37PM

Sounds like you want to suppress speech, Todd. I see racism preached on the A.S. comment pages every day. I disagree with most of it, but I will (and have) fought to give boneheads like you that right.

Unless you've also served our country, I'm guessing that separates you and I.

:)

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 4:21PM

How exactly am I suppressing your speech? Whatever good you done serving in the military is undone by supporting a Marxist like Obama. Please tell me what my racism is Scott? Pointing out the racism of Rev Wright and Eric Holder? Let's hear it cause you make accusations with no proof.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 5:07PM

"Sounds like you want to"

It's not an accusation, sir. I'm just expressing my opinion (but with less name calling than you seem to be able to do).

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 5:43PM

Yes you liberals are fond of making accusations with no facts but based on how you feel. Just like they had their feeling about how George Zimmerman was a white racist who chased down a 13 year old innocent black boy eating his skittles and shot him because he was wearing a hoodie. If you have to edit the tape to make your point or make it sound like he used a racist term when he didn't, well the facts aren't all that important. Fact is you douchebag that I used a quote showing the racism from Obama's preacher of 20 years and according to you, that makes me a racist. This is why you liberals disgust me, you are liars and have no regard for truth.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 6:02PM

No reason to come unhinged, nor bring in the Zimmerman murder case. I defended Zimmerman AND mourned the loss of the kid's life. the courts will do the rest. Now go paint with your broad brush elsewhere please.

Later, hater-debater.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 6:51PM

If calling you on your pathetic lies makes me a hater, then I am proud to be called one. I showed proof of the racism of Rev Wright that Obama heard for 20 years without batting an eyelash and you called me a racist for that. And what I said about the Zimmerman case is absolutely true about how the media has lied repeatedly and Eric Holder's buddy Al Sharpton wants another race riot based on a lie like he caused before in NYC leaving 7 people dead. Get lost troll

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 7:57PM

MY "pathetic lies?"

Which one is/are that/those?

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 8:56PM

Calling me a racist you douchebag. In your upside down world, calling a racist a racist based on fact is racist if that person is black.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 9:49PM

That's it? Out of all the comments I've placed on this thread, that's what you call my "pathetic lies?"

For somebody who has called me everything from a "douchebag,"" idiot, " "Marxist" and so on, you seem rather thinned skinned, Todd.

I will let your bigoted, gay-baiting, Muslim hating comments stand on their own.

I'm afraid it is you, sir, who is pathetic.

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 11:11PM

Gay baiting and Muslim hating comments? Where you good for nothing troll? You are a liar, get bent putz

Bill| 4.18.12 @ 4:01PM

Scott, 19 Arab Muslims slaughtered 3000 innocent Americans in 9/11. We should never forget.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 5:09PM

We retaliated rather forcefully too. Let it go, Muslim hater.

Renaissance Nerd | 4.18.12 @ 5:22PM

From the Muslim standpoint he's a Muslim, as anyone born to a Muslim father is a Muslim. From the Christian and American standpoints, he can be whatever he chooses, so if he says he's a Christian, that's good enough for me, even though his religious beliefs are WAY at odds with mine. It's a sensible belief from the Muslim way of thinking, because when you're riding all over the Eastern Roman Empire and taking many women slaves, tell ing them their offspring wouldn't be slaves but Muslims would make them far more likely to be compliant. Saves everyone trouble, including the poor slave woman, who won't get beat up as much or as often if she does as she's told. Incidentally, this isn't a Muslim-only thing, Norman knights used to kidnap and rape conquered noblewomen and THEN marry them, especially in Sicily and Naples.

Anthony| 4.18.12 @ 3:20PM

Oh really Scott, you mean Rev. Wright's type of Black Liberation Theology "Christianity" vs. Mormonism? Good luck with that fool.
BTW, Obozo is a Muslim. Born, raised, and under Islamic law, remains a Muslim, even if baptised by the hate monger in chief Rev.Wright.

Ryan| 4.18.12 @ 4:23PM

At best, "raised" is a stretch. He spent little time in the madrassa.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 5:08PM

Sure thing, Muslim hater.

:)

Anthony| 4.18.12 @ 7:10PM

Hey Scott you're quick with the Muslim hater rap, what we hate is being lied to by your Muslim president who won't admit it.
If being a Muslim is no big thing, why can't he say so, and why don't your lefties "out" him like you lefty gays "out" conservatives?
I'll tell you why, you're all hypocrites to the core.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 7:58PM

Because he's not a Muslim, Anthony.
It's as simple as that.

David| 4.18.12 @ 2:48PM

TO SCOTT THE PIG:

If Romney's religion becomes an issue, against everything in our Constitution, then the so-called hate-filled church that Bam Bam and his entire family were members of for almost 20 years, should be front and center. Ad after ad should be shown of the racist Wright, and if Bam Bam and family are seen in the church, all the better.

The left in this country are dishonest PIGS. ALways eating the slop that the leftist media put out. And the prez tops the list.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 3:05PM

That's "MISTER Pig" to you, Hater.

David| 4.18.12 @ 2:55PM

An atheist once sued a city because there were no holidays for atheists. He argued that Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc., all had holidays when they could stay home from school or take off work.

In Court, the judge threw out the case. Being this day and age the atheist and his attorneys were flabbergasted. Of course the atheists claim should get a more thorough hearing.

The judge explained that the atheists do have a holiday. He said that the Bible says "a fool says there is no God". He said, therefore, April 1st, April Fools' Day, is the atheists' holiday.

Love that one.

Bill| 4.18.12 @ 3:01PM

Veep Talk:
The Fiscal Hawks:
1. Chris Christie: NJ turns blue, the charismatic articulate "Ronald Reagan" in the east coast.
2. Mitch Daniel: Two-term governor of IN will deliver MI, OH, IN.
3. Paul Ryan: WI turns blue, a possible chance of picking up a senate seat (former senator Herb Kohl)
The Southern Strategy:
1. Bob McDonald: VA will remain red,he can energize the Evangelic voters, along with picking up the senate seat of former senator Jim Web.
2. Haley Barbour: real southern flavor, you got the South.
The Women Votes:
1. Kelly Ayotte: 42 years old freshman senator from NH can unite the women voters behind Romney.
The Minority Report:
1. Jeb Bush: speaks fluent Spanish and his FL ties.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 3:13PM

You're missing Rob Portman.

Bill| 4.18.12 @ 4:03PM

He worked for the Bush Admins. and a Washington insider. I just don't see any benefits having him on the VP list.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 5:03PM

Ohio.

Bill| 4.18.12 @ 6:56PM

Chris Christie or Kelly Ayotte will be more beneficial for GOP.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 7:59PM

Sure, Bill.

Kaddi| 4.18.12 @ 3:09PM

I don't get it. Romney is a Mormon but does not believe like the Mormons that violate the law by having multiple or underage wives!! He is a Mormon, as I am a Christian. Kennedy was a Catholic and I don't believe in infant baptism. So what?? His religion has nothing to do with him being a President of our country. It has everything to do with those that oppose him for political party reasons. Romney is not going to try to turn the United States into Mormons. How about those that want to see ALL Americans converted to the Muslim religion?? Romney has one wife, and he has for years. His wife was of age when he married her. Can some one explain to me why any of this really matters?? I guess this is the best argument a loyal dem can come up with!! I want a president that will get us out of the financial mess obama created by spending more in one term than any other president. Including Bush. We can not afford another four yrs of obama. I do not care what religion our next president has as long as it is not obama in office!!

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 3:15PM

"How about those that want to see ALL Americans converted to the Muslim religion?"

What U.S. politician believes that ridiculous assertion?

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 3:26PM

Anyone who tries to take more than one wife is automatically excommunicated from the LDS Church and it has been that way for over a century.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 3:33PM

Which is why Romney's family fled America. He's a third generation traitor!

Richard Baker| 4.18.12 @ 3:17PM

Thought we put this sort of nonsense aside with Jack Kennedy's election in 1960. As I remember, Harry Truman said that he wasn't worried about the Pope but the Pop (Joe Kennedy, JFK's father). Despicable.

Tim| 4.18.12 @ 3:22PM

While I am not a Morman and no Fan of Romney I will say this:

At least his religion was founded in the USA.

It's made in America.

And while I don't persanally buy his brand of worship of planets in the afterlife or magic under wear I m sure that there are millions if not Billions on this planet that have problems with a virgin birth and turning water into wine which I believe in.

Its a slippery slope when we go after a persons worship or beliefs unless of course those beliefs cause direct harm to others.

Paul McGrath| 4.18.12 @ 5:16PM

Yeah, exactly. I personally like the 72 virgin thing, but I guess I'd have to blow something up.

Kaddi| 4.18.12 @ 3:23PM

http://patriotsforamerica.ning.....pic:352927

Bob| 4.18.12 @ 4:42PM

Obama was born in Indonesia.
Reeducação Alimentar

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 6:03PM

Bob was born on Mars!

MyGirlFriday| 4.18.12 @ 4:44PM

I would ask those "conservatives" who have stated here "they can not nor will not vote for a Mormon or Romney (as he is not a true conservative) that you may review this administrations passed three years by going to: PJTV - Afterburner video and view "Bill Whittle & Merchant's of Despair."

You will learn that their is reliable evidence that 30 MILLION eligible CONSERVATIVES did not vote in 2008.

And the same can happen in 2012. Every vote counts.

Cynic| 4.18.12 @ 5:20PM

MITT ROMNEY IS A SECRET MEXICAN POLYGAMIST!

#TurnaboutIsFairPlay

Renaissance Nerd | 4.18.12 @ 5:32PM

I'm getting a little tired of the 'magic underwear' tripe. It's not magic, and nobody believes it is except a few wacky types. Everybody's got some. It is simply symbolic of covenants made, a demonstration of faith. The protection included in the covenant is general, not specific to the clothing. The demonstration of faith carries a corresponding blessing, similar to Malachi 3:10--Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. Keep the commandment, receive the blessing. Not because you deserve it, but because that's how God is, generous and kind. No magic involved. And incidentally, it was discovered about thirty years ago that it was an ancient Jewish practice too--before the Babylonian captivity.

Paul McGrath| 4.18.12 @ 6:08PM

That's right! I forgot about the tithing requirement! So basically, Romney's religion makes him a tax and spend communist!

Jettboy| 4.18.12 @ 6:47PM

Actually Paul, if you somehow know anything about how the LDS Church spends money, it would be more accurate to say its a Tax and Spend when you actually have the money to pay for it first . . . um, communism? Sounds rather conservative to me.

Paul McGrath| 4.18.12 @ 8:48PM

I was being facetious.

Tim| 4.18.12 @ 6:53PM

The magic underwear statement is a slang of course. Just like we shouldn't get bent out of shape when we refer to women in full veils at airports as 911 types.

The problem with religious customs however ancient is that they become a joke for late night tv comedians.

and then we adopt them in our everyday pop culture.

However what is fair is that....Obama sat in a church that preached anti Americanism and spoke of the destruction of the USA and western culture. and to do it by using violence.

Now that's a far cry from going around saying you land on your own personal planet when you die or that a man found golden tablets in a midwestern USA town that told folks to live a certain way.

Again, religion and its practices only go off the rails if it hurts people or teaches to hurt people. Otherwise folks can worship how they see fit.

The USA Constitution sees to it.......

Simply put one is destructive and hateful and the other is a little less harmful to your neighbor.

Intelligent Design| 4.18.12 @ 7:08PM

The only religion the left likes is Islam, the religion of insanity. See www.thereligionofpeace.com

somnolence| 4.18.12 @ 7:18PM

Imam Obama verified this morning that he grew up eating dog as a main cours, so it appears Mitt is the more humane one when it comes down to canine empathy.

Anthony| 4.18.12 @ 7:18PM

If I was God and read all this silly banter about various religions on this blog, I would have said to myself, why the hell did I even bother?

Paul McGrath| 4.18.12 @ 8:50PM

If I was God and read all of this blather, I'd fire lightning at all a yez.

somnolence| 4.18.12 @ 7:25PM

Well, I'm a Methodist, but frankly I don't care if the President is a devil worshiper as long as he/she can present balanced budgets, initiate sound, reasonable approaches for new business without being a spendthrift, and supports the sanctity of human life. Church membership itself is merely just for show in many political profiles. But if Romney's religious choice is attacked I certainly feel free to bring up Imam Obama at EVERY opportunity.

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 8:24PM

"But if Romney's religious choice is attacked I certainly feel free to bring up Imam Obama at EVERY opportunity."

Right, because until now conservatives have refrained from attacking Obama's faith.

LOL!!!

A Sphincter Says What?| 4.18.12 @ 11:01PM

This 350+ post thread is........riveting. But let me re-cage our minds. WHAT! The Left is going to bring up the Mormon sham? Moons and Planets and (W)underwear and all? You're kidding me. But don't worry, the Prez said his campaign is not going to talk about religion.....he'll just let his unoffcial campaign propaganda companies (CBS/NBC/ABC/CNN/CNBC/MSNBC/PBS) take care of that for him. If you look closely, you can see my surprised face.

A Sphincter Says What?| 4.18.12 @ 11:03PM

But yet, it was inconceivable that we even investigate the possibility that the Mormon sham would be an issue to voters. Guess what, if it wasn't an issue it's going to be now. For the record, I could care LESS what Obomney's religion is....but I still think Mormonism is a sham.

Michael| 4.18.12 @ 11:18PM

Hi Clint!

A Sphincter Says What?| 4.18.12 @ 11:25PM

Nope. Just a clear thinker who understands that the Obama machine (official or unofficial) is going to try to ROLL the R nominee, and what is considered by most to be a "weird" religion is going to be targeted. But at the same time, the media is NEVER going to bring up the even more strange (in my opinion) statement that Obama attended a vile church with a vile minister for 20 years but "didn't hear any of that."

A Sphincter Says What?| 4.19.12 @ 12:46AM

Sorry, meant to say "even more strange fact"

MAGIC UNDERWEAR| 4.18.12 @ 11:28PM

BELIEVE IN IT! DON'T QUESTION IT!

POST American| 4.18.12 @ 11:37PM

---And speaking fo things capstone,
dig this--

"--The NEO-cons are really just a bunch
of Globalist Trotskyists who realized that
bringing in the NWO was impossible without
a religious component. And that component
is going to be Islam --and the coming MASS
conversion to islam. Fact is ALLLL the higher
rituals of Masonry itself are muslim in origin
and character. When Kng Philip condemned
the Templars for being secret muslim converts
---he may very well have been right. In fact,
the very archiecture of the gothic cathedrals
may very well be a stealth muslim op.
Remember, Islam attacked the west first.
I have laid all this out piece by piece in
great detail to 33rd degree masons and have received nods.
----Christianity is very soon to be taken down
entirely. Since Obama got into office millions
upon millions of muslim s have immigrated
and settled across our midwest. The little
churches are all shut down. There are mosques
going up everywhere. Paris is NOW a birka
state. Globalist policy is Britain is already
well known. ---THIS IS THE PLAN."
-Informed radio online

Sound crazy? --stick around.

And so, not only is everyting old NEW-Remberg
again --BUT it is, indeed, morning in old Jerusalem.

------------YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED-----------

Ryan| 4.19.12 @ 3:10PM

*facepalm*

MyGirlFriday| 4.19.12 @ 2:46AM

Dear Todd S,

I cannot believe the comments I have read from 7:06AM to 10:37PM. I never would have ever believed that I was in fact on a "conservative" website. I go to bed tonight knowing now that their are conservatives who do not believe in religious freedom.

I will tread lightly and take care who to donate to in 2012.

But know Todd S, I will now be donating to the Romney campaign and as usual Jim DeMint's Senate fund for conservatives. As it has become apparent to me that we will need all the "real" conservatives we can get just in case we do not win the Presidency.

Again, I thank you for defending Mormanism, Romney, and much of my family against an ugly group of people who can only spout left and right wing innuendoes against the Morman religion.

I don't think after three years of the Obama Administration and their attacks on conservatives that I can take even one day of conservatives attacking Romney as we are at a cross roads in this country.

I can only hope that those who believe now that they cannot or will not vote Romney because of his faith will understand that while that is their privilege, they do so at our countries demise. Again, I will repeat what I stated earlier, please visit Bill Whittle & Merchant's of Despair on PJTV.

Todd S| 4.19.12 @ 12:39PM

Well someone needs to call them out for their ignorant bigotry. Always makes me laugh to hear a Catholic tell us how we are a weird cult. Just because there are many more Catholics doesn't mean they don't believe in weird stuff and they have a long sordid history which makes anything in Mormon history look very tame in comparison.
More Muslims and look at the crazy stuff they think. I don't really have a problem with them unless they want to insult us. And the protestants have their skeletons in the closet for sure. Don't throw stones in glass houses and remove the beam from their own eye before seeing the mote in someone else is my word of advice.

If someone doesn't want to vote for Mitt Romney fine but I don't want to hear their complaints against Obama if they won't even vote against them because they dislike Mormons. Does any rational conservative think Romney is more of a threat than Obama? The answer is no so it can only be religious bigotry.

A Sphincter Says What?| 4.19.12 @ 7:56AM

MyGirlFri,

Comments above have nothing to to with Mitt's freedom of religion rather the forced-down-our-throat idea that Mitt was the "most electable Republican" when the idea of his religion (his belief.......not his right to believe) is the giant elephant in the room that noone was supposed to talk about.............til now. All anyone is saying is Mitt's religion has been a major part of his life, and like most religious people guides their lives (including mine). With that being said, would we not assume that a belief that guides Mitt's life would be EXAMINED by the Left and then EXPLOITED for thier gain? Mormonism as a belief makes the exploitation a breeze for the Left because the belief, although Mitt is FREE TO BELIEVE AND WORSHIP AS HE LIKES, in Mormonism is so far outside the mainstream. It's not about religious freedom as you've stated, it's about debunking this bullsh!t argument that we've heard since December about the "most electable."

Todd S| 4.19.12 @ 10:44AM

Tell me exactly why being Mormon is a big elephant when it is clearly a mainstream Church with some of the most productive members of society who overwhelmingly are politically conservative? You come across as a bigot from the South that hates Mormons and who has never made a real effort to get to know and understand them. And why do you care so much what the left thinks? We know that they will try to destroy anything good and decent that gets in the way of the secular socialist dictatorship that they want to replace a limited government Constitution. And do you think Newt and Santorum would not have had the same done to them and the fact neither of them is very appealing to independents? If Paul Ryan had run or if Rick Perry had not fallen on his face, they would have gotten my support but it is a fact that Romney is a stronger candidate than either Newt or Santorum. Get over your bigotry and vote against Obama.

Tim| 4.19.12 @ 11:20AM

I think what the liability in political terms for Romney as it applies to his Morman Faith is really not the some much his Faith
But rather the more visible action items that tweek folks the wrong way.

1. The forced tiding
2. The forced missions of men knocking on your door.
3. The secrecy involved with their temple worship.

Case in point....Anyone can walk into most churches and sit in the back and take in the full worship even if they are not a member.

The fact is if you are not a Morman you cannot sit in the temple and watch your best friend get married.

So its not that any conservative wants to deny any Morman their freedom of religion and Practice there of....rather its that folks pause at these three
items and then may question a potential future President that acts that way.

We did the same to Obama or at least the conservative media did....

The difference is that I doubt Romney or any Morman is planning the destruction of America in those secret worship services.

Yet...it would make folks feel more comfortable if a non member could see what was going on.

Todd S| 4.19.12 @ 12:28PM

Tiding? It is called tithing and every Church has some form of it and it is not forced. No one is forced to go on a mission though as a family matter some might feel that way but never from Church leadership. You are free to come visit our Churches if you please any Sunday but not our Temples though we have open houses for them before they are operational. Why your obsession about going to our Temple anyway? You can find it on the Internet anyways so it really is not secret but we consider it sacred. If you really want to see what goes on there, join our Church and live our standards and you can go. And it is Mormon, not Morman.

Tim| 4.19.12 @ 4:10PM

Todd:

Tithing....typo(My Bad)

Don't kid me, No Mission you are basically outcast!

I know many a young man that has gone through that. I have worked with good practicing Mormons whos kids chose not to go to mission. The parents and the kids were hosed by the Bishop and their peers.

Granted this was 15 20 years ago so things may have changed.

As far as temples being sacred.

St Peters in Rome is about as sacred as it gets
yet anyone can walk in and in addition if you are in Rome on Christmas Eve you can go in and take in Mid Night Mass regardless of your Faith.

I am certainly not worried over the fact the Mormon temples are for members only.

That's their business how its run. I don't think any anti American stuff goes on in the temples so its none of my business and frankly I could care less.

What I am saying is that this secret gig will cost Romney votes. Some folks don't like that sort of stuff.

That's the larger point I was making.

It is a liability.....how big of one who knows....but you can bet the Obama machine will pound that home until November 7

and Todd I'm not Santorum!

Andrew Lohr | 4.19.12 @ 7:06PM

O'Romneycare and distorted witness against Gingrich and Santorum trouble me more than Romney's Mormonism, and his personal ethics (except tolerating false witness) seem OK, but as a Mormon he presumably puts some stock in the Book of Mormon as history, and I'd question the judgment of a presidential candidate who took, say, The Lord of the Rings seriously as history. (I know some question the Bible, but the Bible has serious defenders and nobody doubts the Bible has at least something to do with ancient Jewish history. The Book of Mormon has nothing at all to do with ancient American history. Will Mr Romney throw it under the bus?)

Martin Owens| 4.19.12 @ 9:52PM

"Ah don't care how man prays-
There's room in Hell for us all!"
Mad Jack in
PAINT YOUR WAGON
`

POST American| 4.21.12 @ 5:31AM

Of course, lots of good people in the
ranks of Mormonism ---nevertheless,
as USURY occupation and VAST and FINAL
EUGENICS press forward in broad daylight
---there's NO overlooking the dubious origins
and aims of capstone (and it certainly is
a capstone) Mormonism.

AS the GMO Halocaust and weaponized
shots and meds take their toll ---those out
there still with minds will be staying up late
to do the background on the conjunction
of Mormonisn, Masonry and the deadly, deadly,
deadly Arminian Heresy back in the early 1800's
America.

--------------'SUB-Mitt ROME---knee'-----------------

Everything OLD really is NEW--Remberg again!

REALLY!

POST American| 4.22.12 @ 10:35PM

------------------------JUST IN---------------------------

NOW CONFIRMED

'Republican' capstone (ie Globalist)
VOTER FRAUD in

Iowa
--Florida
----Nevada
------Maine
-----------South Carolina etc.

TRUTH is on the MOVE.

The fix that is the
'BAR--Rockefeller' Obama
/ 'SUB-Mitt ROME--knee'
CON-test --is now itself being
contested.

In this, the undeniable 11th hour of
the CFR--RED China handover, takedown,
TREASON, OCCUPATION and FINAL
EUGENICS OP we can only say
--------------------------------------------SWEET!

Nathan M. Bickel | 4.23.12 @ 12:54AM

Establishment Republicans should have known better. They can squeal all they want now, about the lib Dems hauling out their cult and hate cards, but, it will do no good. The Chris Christies of the GOP should have foreseen that the perception of the voting electorate is, as important, as the candidate they are pushing.

The Establishment Republicans will now have to live with their decision to select a nominee who isn't really Christian, but who carries with him the white elephant stigma [tag] of “cult.” I hope that the Karl Roves and Ann Coulters of the GOP are happy with their presumptive Republican nominee. I think they swooned headlong into clamoring for Romney, not looking back at recent political history and noting that all the Republican presidents have been Christian, - at least in name only.

But, be that as it may, the Republican Party is going to garner all those Independent and moderate voters. [Or, so they think] Hence, they won't need Conservative Christian votes like mine. The only way that I would seriously consider voting for Romney, is that he [big time] exposes Obama's forgery identifications and Obama's unconstitutional (non natural born citizen) White House occupancy "presidency."

The Republican Party, if was wise, would bend to the wishes of birthers, Constitutionalists and Conservative Christians on the whole eligibility issue of Obama, and make it a huge campaign issue. [That, is, Obama's Achilles heel!] If the GOP and Romney would do that, they could (perhaps) spark a significant portion of the electorate to get out their vote. Then, the GOP would have a chance to beat this incumbent Barry Soetoro embarrassment of a fake president.

Finally, you Romney Republicans - please don't attempt to convince yourselves and the voting electorate, that Mormonism is Christian. Christians believe that Jesus Christ is true God, the 2nd person of the Trinity. Mormons, don’t, as they don’t [can’t] subscribe to the historic Apostle’s and Nicene creeds.

Also, Christians don't think that when they die they will be awarded some distant planet to ride hee haw on, in the hereafter, as Mormons, do. If you don't believe me, check out "Mormonism" at carm.org

Pastor emeritus Nathan Bickel

www.thechristianmessage.org
www.moralmatters.org

The American Spectator

Political Hay

Big Hate

About the Author

Letter to the Editor View all comments (366) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

spike59| 4.18.12 @ 7:14AM

Jack in Wi.| 4.18.12 @ 8:06AM

Ryan| 4.18.12 @ 9:16AM

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 3:17PM

Cynic| 4.18.12 @ 5:21PM

Bruce| 4.18.12 @ 9:33AM

Purp| 4.18.12 @ 11:41AM

Mike Hawk| 4.18.12 @ 12:28PM

Anthony| 4.18.12 @ 1:16PM

O.F. A.N. A.S.S.| 4.18.12 @ 2:23PM

Appleby| 4.18.12 @ 4:26PM

Purp| 4.18.12 @ 4:40PM

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 6:04PM

Anthony| 4.18.12 @ 6:48PM

O.F. A.N. A.S.S.| 4.18.12 @ 8:00PM

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 9:40AM

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 10:26AM

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 10:49AM

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 11:17AM

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 11:21AM

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 11:47AM

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 1:40PM

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 1:43PM

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 2:02PM

spike59| 4.19.12 @ 7:42AM

Lyneuss Fields | 4.19.12 @ 12:53AM

Jack in Wi.| 4.19.12 @ 12:34AM

Scott| 4.18.12 @ 3:24PM

Renaissance Nerd | 4.18.12 @ 3:54PM

KennesawJack| 4.18.12 @ 10:54PM

Quartermaster| 4.18.12 @ 5:32PM

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 6:08PM

Jack in Wi.| 4.19.12 @ 12:37AM

Todd S| 4.19.12 @ 10:17AM

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 12:05PM

Mike Hawk| 4.18.12 @ 12:29PM

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 1:00PM

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 3:13PM

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 3:25PM

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 3:29PM

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 3:50PM

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 4:47PM

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 8:21PM

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 1:05PM

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 3:30PM

JT| 4.18.12 @ 3:53PM

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 4:05PM

JT| 4.18.12 @ 4:24PM

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 8:27PM

Michael| 4.18.12 @ 4:42PM

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 8:30PM

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 3:53PM

Doctor Right| 4.18.12 @ 4:49PM

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 7:40PM

JT| 4.18.12 @ 6:09PM

Jack in Wi.| 4.18.12 @ 4:42PM

Pelleas| 4.18.12 @ 5:50PM

JT| 4.18.12 @ 6:00PM

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 7:26PM

spike59| 4.19.12 @ 7:44AM

Clunt| 4.18.12 @ 5:17PM

Clint| 4.18.12 @ 7:31PM

TLP| 4.18.12 @ 9:43AM

Frekki| 4.18.12 @ 10:14AM

Bob Miller| 4.18.12 @ 10:31AM

JT| 4.18.12 @ 6:31PM

Pelleas| 4.18.12 @ 2:26PM

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 2:38PM

Pelleas| 4.18.12 @ 3:00PM

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 3:33PM

Pelleas| 4.18.12 @ 3:53PM

Todd S| 4.18.12 @ 6:22PM

Pelleas| 4.18.12 @ 7:37PM

O.F. A.N. A.S.S.| 4.18.12 @ 7:53PM

Cynic| 4.18.12 @ 5:24PM