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Car Guy
Freedom Is a Smoky Burnout
How long before it becomes a crime to drive a pre-computer vehicle?
I take comfort in the fact that I can still drive old cars instead of new ones. I don’t have to have six air bags, stability control, back-up cameras or OnStar. If I like, I can use an old F100 pick-up as my daily driver. Or enjoy the computer-free rowdiness of my ancient muscle car. I do not want all the Stuff that today’s (and surely, tomorrow’s) vehicles are fitted with, by order of D.C. I don’t feel the need. It’s expensive, often absurdly complex — and a lot of it is simply overbearing. I don’t like being assaulted by a “belt minder” buzzer if I choose not to wear my seat belt. I don’t have any use for a back-up camera (never having run over a child). And most of all, I like being able to squeal the tires without being countermanded by an electronic Mrs. Doubtfire. I definitely do not want a vehicle fitted with any sort of data recording device or GPS transponder — which pretty much all new cars now have.
If I’m signing the check, I’ll do what I like with the damn thing.
But I fear this window is closing. At some point, probably within the next five years if not sooner — older, pre-computer vehicles will be forcibly decommissioned. It will become a crime to use them for anything other than “parade” or “cruise” events — strictly monitored and enforced. It will be done in the name of the environment — or safety.
Maybe both.
Several states have passed laws making it much harder to register and drive an older vehicle on public roads. In my home state of Virginia, for instance, the police have the authority to conduct roadside “inspections” of any vehicle wearing antique plates. If, in the opinion of the cop — who is a cop and not a mechanic — the vehicle does not meet either safety or emissions requirements, he may physically seize the car’s plates and registration on the spot — and have the vehicle impounded. It’s then up to you to prove your car has not been unlawfully modified (just as it’s up to you to disprove whatever charges are filed against you by the IRS).
Other states have repealed laws that once exempted antique vehicles more than 25 or 30 years old from the emissions inspections required of modern cars — even though the number of cars over 30 years old in regular use is so low that their impact on air quality is nil.
That’s the leading edge of the spear. Rigmarole such as the above can be a hassle — but at least, it can still be dealt with. Most old car hobbyists are fastidious about maintenance — and keeping their cars up to specification is already par for the course.
But there’s the rub: “… up to specifications.”
What happens when laws are passed requiring older cars to meet current safety and/or emissions specifications?
You know the answer. It will be the end of the road. Old cars will become true museum pieces. We will no longer be able to operate them on public roads — unless you’re rich enough to retrofit your car into compliance. At the very least, I expect the government to pass a law requiring that every motor vehicle be fitted with a GPS transponder. Progressive Insurance is already pushing for it — voluntarily, of course.
For the moment.
Don’t doubt it — the day is coming when it will no longer be voluntary. The “safety” lobby and environmental fanatics will demand it. Government will be happy to oblige. It wants information, in real time — all the time.
And most of all, it wants control.
Your movements will be kept track of, the information stored in computer banks and cross-referenced against other bits of data to aid the state in properly profiling you. It is already happening. To expect that it will not happen to cars is wishful thinking.
The technology exists to erect the “intelligent highway” — one where transponders in your vehicle communicate in real time with satellites overhead and receiver/transmitters posted along the side of the road. It is possible to make driving any faster than whatever the speed limit is impossible simply by sending a set of instructions to your car’s computer. And if a cop wants to stop you, he’ll be able to shut you down at the touch of a button — literally. GM’s OnStar system already has this capability — and it has been used. So far, only against car-jackers and other deserving parties. But that’s just the opening chorus of the opera. Any old car that can’t be monitored, that isn’t subject to immediate control, will be outlawed.
About the Author
Eric Peters is an automotive columnist and author of Automotive Atrocities: The Cars You Love to Hate (Motor Books International) and a new book, Road Hogs.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (85) | Leave a comment
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Darin| 4.10.12 @ 7:44AM
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. "
- C.S. Lewis
skip| 4.10.12 @ 9:52AM
"Freedom is not a gift bestowed on us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God and nature"
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
- Benjamin Franklin
P.Smith| 4.10.12 @ 7:53AM
As an owner of several older vehicles this has been on my mind for some time. For a start we should not support insurance companies which lobby to restrict our freedoms.
The Road Warrior| 4.10.12 @ 2:08PM
Maryland currently has pending legislation which will forbid classic car owners from driving their cars anywhere but to a show, or in a parade.
The reason this legislation was initiated was because poor people were registering their old clunkers as "historic," in order to avoid the annual emissions inspection.
Classic car owners have flooded the Maryland legislation with complaints, but it looks like some type of restrictions will pass anyway.
Bottom line is the slippery slope Eric Peters is talking about has started in Maryland.
oldfart| 4.10.12 @ 3:53PM
You are refering of course to the "Peoples Republic of Maryland"? The place where they tax everything but the air you breath - and they are working on that! Place that put taxes so high that all the major employeers in state (except the government) have left or are leaving and Annapolis cannot figure out why?
Yes - I know the place. We USED to live there, both born and raised, including out kids. We got the H out as soon as we could
Pecos Pete| 4.10.12 @ 7:55AM
What happens when technology fails from sunspots, etc. , and maybe an EMP bomb.? Chaos.
Dixie Pixie| 4.10.12 @ 8:57AM
The insurance companies will refuse to correct the havoc they caused citing unforeseeable events.
Russel| 4.10.12 @ 10:16AM
My thots too . New program on the survivalist's points out how to safeguard the vehicle from a burst , but if not , it's junk .
Big Tony| 4.10.12 @ 4:12PM
I never thought I'd be saying this but I hope ole sole does blasts us. It won't matter if you have an old car or not because there won't be any gasoline except in the tanks of the now disabled computer cars. Technology is being used to enslave us and most people are too stupid or unaware to realize what's going on. I frequently disagree with Eric but he right on the money here.
Appleby| 4.10.12 @ 7:59AM
Burnouts are already illegal in Canada, except if you have just won a race on a closed course; during the 2010 visit of the Gumball Rally to Toronto -- a plethora of the most beautiful and expensive cars in the world -- at least two of them were fined for doing burnouts in a parking lot in Niagara Falls. What on earth is the point of having a beautiful, very fast car if you have to drive it like a Smart Car? Why do the Marching Mommies think people turn out in hundreds of thousands to see cars like these in the first place?
Those of us who have travelled the French "Peage" (toll highway) between Calais and Le Mans have already met the unpleasant new world -- the entry ticket is time-stamped and the Gendarme (we call them "Jean Damns") at the exiting tool booth scans you ticket and if the math says you've been driving your Ferrari Spyder faster than the speed limit (Surprise!) you are given a traffic ticket that you must pay on the spot.
On the other hand, if something could be added to the Binkies that the text zombies carry, that would give them an electric shock when they are about to step into traffic or an open manhole or the side of a garbage truck -- or a train, or would shout "Keep Moving!" as they drift to a stop in the middle of a staircase at rush hour, that would be a good thing.
John Navratil| 4.10.12 @ 10:21AM
Appleby,
I had occasion to drive between Paris and Lyon a few times back in the '80s. I had been warned of the possibility of getting a time-based ticket. So, I would skip breakfast as the hotel, jump on the tollway, drive as I pleased and stop for breakfast in those eateries which are commonly placed on the tollways so no exiting was required.
I still got breakfast, still got to Lyon in good time, but by shifting breakfast onto the tollroad I was never ticketed. Breakfast left something to be desired, however.
Forastero| 4.13.12 @ 3:08AM
I ran in to that back in the 80s on the Ohio Turnpike. Upon paying the toll at the west end of the 'pike, the toll taker commented, "In a bit of a hurry, eh?" After that I started timing my trips on the Ohio turnpike to include a nice long nap at one of their pleasant rest areas.
oldfart| 4.10.12 @ 4:04PM
Ah yes - the German autobahn before speed limits. I remember those days. The Einfahrt and Ausfahrt signs took us by susprise at first but they were fun. But we were driving US Army vehicles at 45 mph (about 70 kph). The Germans's were NOT happy with our convoys.
Mike 3/505| 4.10.12 @ 8:09AM
It all starts out as something innocuous and "good for you," like ONSTAR. first it's just an emergency location & communication device...now it can control your vehicle....purely for theft deterrent don't you know. Yeah, right.
Bill in Houston| 4.10.12 @ 8:14AM
Eric, you need to come to Texas. We just wouldn't put up with that here. Here in Houston, the citizens booted out Red Light Cameras. We still have the right to talk on phones, too. Yee haa!
John Navratil| 4.10.12 @ 10:24AM
Bill in Houston,
Watch those school zones!!! You know, the ones were no kids are, because all the kids are either bused on delivered by parents. No talking on cell phones there.
Petronius| 4.10.12 @ 12:07PM
Fine! Now get rid of your GD seat belt laws.
Doctor_X| 4.10.12 @ 8:22AM
Give me a Jeep CJ5 or CJ7 with the inline 6 and I'll be happy! I'd rather have that than my fancy 2004 WJ!
Geomancer| 4.10.12 @ 8:22AM
Red Barchetta
Bobloblaw| 4.10.12 @ 9:34AM
I wish I could give thumbs up
John - TMF| 4.10.12 @ 10:02AM
Same thought... but it is coming...
There is a warped business opportunity for those with enough money though... buy up a bunch of now worthless antique cars, purchase enough land to put a track on it, sort of like big multi-track Watkins Glen (nice locations in the Shenandoah Valley) , and run a business leasing out old cars and track time so that people could experience the "feel" of actually driving.
"Red Barchetta" indeed...
r/TMF
Cloudbuster | 4.11.12 @ 10:17AM
That!
I strip away the old debris that hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta from a better vanished time
Ooh, fire up the willing engine, responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel, I commit my weekly crime
gearjammer| 4.10.12 @ 8:34AM
First, they came for Jay Leno and his cars,,,,oh wait he's a MEDIA STAR-gets a waiver,
Bobloblaw| 4.10.12 @ 9:31AM
Mostly likely youll need a special permit. CA will be the first state to do this. The permit will cost something like $1000 per year.
G.S. Patton| 4.10.12 @ 9:43AM
Lets just hope there is as much passion, for the right to drive old Detroit iron as there is for The Second Amendment; whether a 1911 .45, or a 66 GTO. Its no coincidence, the same people who loathe firearms (except for the use of enforcement of the police state) also loathe big, dangerous, polluting, 500 hp engines. The "proletariat" should not be allowed to own and operate such such contraband. Oh, and its for our own good, and to keep us "safe." Tyranny is truly knocking at the door folks.
PolishKnight| 4.10.12 @ 10:18AM
I'll throw the fox into the chicken coop here:
I'm reminded of the scene from Demolition Man where all cars are autodrive and, coincidentally, there's a noble fascism in place outlawing red meat, kissing, and swearing.
Nonetheless, the 1950's and drinking at a bar and hitting the road with seat belts flapping by the side and a child sitting on your lap are over. In addition, thanks to more drivers on the road overall causing traffic congestion SOMETHING needs to be done. And part of the problem was caused by the maucho driving mentality in the first place.
Many people don't want to drive: seniors and people who can't afford insurance. And even illegal immigrants. But our culture treats people who don't have a car as losers and has made public transportation impractical and unaffordable much of the time. Even in a major metro city, my wife doesn't like to take the bus because of the crazies and the extreme poor riding the system. In Europe, where it's more mainstream, this isn't a problem.
So since the roads are full of everyone, including people are poor drivers but not "losers", you have to find some way to deal with them and if sticking a GPS on their car relieves congestion and saves gas, it's going to need to be done.
Thomas Jefferson| 4.10.12 @ 11:22AM
So since the tree of liberty is empty of it's natural manure from the coop, and it must from time to time be refreshed to relieve the malnourishment of the tree to save the tree, the way to refresh the tree is to find tyrant foxes whose comments are nothing more than chickenshit, and go and do what needs to be done.
PolishKnight| 4.10.12 @ 12:02PM
For all the talk I read here of liberty and don't tread on me, I don't think Obama is quaking in his boots about a revolution. The original revolution, keep in mind, happened with the government located a month or more boat ride to England and the ability for revolutionaries to hide in the countryside. In addition, there was massive foreign support (France). It was a perfect storm for a revolution.
Ironically, despite the talk here of the sanctity of old rusty Detroit muscle cars, so much of that is out of date or contrary to limited government. The interstate freeway system helped pave the way, literally, for a federalized country and state identity washing away as starbucks and McDs popped up ever few mile markers. Detroit is largely dead due to unions in cahoots with government workers.
This discussion reminds me of the movie I was watching on cable recently "Smoky and Bandit" where Burt Reynolds could outrun the Smokey's in a corvette and the roads were largely empty and gas was what, 40 cents a gallon? (I don't think either he or Sally Fields wore seat belts even as they were doing 100mph much of the time. Can you imagine what they would look like if they had hit a tree?)
James Madison| 4.10.12 @ 12:59PM
For all your talk of nonsense pretending to be wisdom I read here, I don't think you imagine the words of Thomas Jefferson, nor those quoted above of Benjamin Franklin and C.S. Lewis, are perfect for our current national storm. In addition, keep in mind their words apply to this article, and to you.
Ironically, despite your talk of nonsense pretending to be wisdom here, I don't think you imagine that you fit the description above of a fox in the coop who is contributing little more than chickenshit until the refreshment that must occur, particulary in times like these.
This discussion reminds me of many discussions with liberals where their arguments were largely empty of intellectual honesty. Can you imagine that you look like one of them, not only now, but when your chickenshit is about how irrelevant the Constitution has become?
PolishKnight| 4.10.12 @ 3:01PM
I'm not making a pretense at wisdom but rather giving it my best shot. Using the names of Madison and Jefferson _IS_ highly pretentious, however. And you didn't address my points. Do you seriously propose a revolution or think one is feasible in the near future? We already had one of sorts, the civil war, and that was a bloody mess.
And sure, Obamacare (may) go under but only because we have 5 SC Justices appointed by Republicans compared to 4 by Democrats making the court largely a political process rather than by the Constitution because the left's justices make their decisions based upon what they want and just fit it to the Constitution. I'm not saying that's right. I'm only saying that's what's so.
Misplaced ideological zealtry, whether worshiping the Constitution or being a useful fool Trotskyite for the left worshiping Obama is not necessarily ideological dishonesty so much as naivety. That said, I love the way that Obama was b-slapped by the Republicans after suggesting that if the court ruled against him it would be "unprecedented." THAT is a true Constitutional moment there.
John Jay| 4.10.12 @ 6:47PM
You said:
"thanks to more drivers on the road overall causing traffic congestion SOMETHING needs to be done"
"part of the problem was caused by the maucho driving mentality in the first place"
"many people don't want to drive"
"you have to find some way to deal with them"
"if sticking a GPS on their car relieves congestion and saves gas, it's going to need to be done"
Readers here will logically have difficulty distinguishing all the 'wisdom' of your talk like this, from, ironically, all the 'wisdom' of talk from Barry Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, Eric Holder, Janet Napolitano, Kathleen Sebelius, Ken Salazar, Steven Chu, Ruth Bader Ginsberg, and Al Gore, to name but a few would be tyrants seeking to oppress liberty.
Readers here will logically conclude all the 'wisdom' of your talk here indicates you cannot comprehend the correlation to Franklin's eternal timeless self-evident truth that "Those who give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety", and your 'wise' talk of the need for something to be done for safety's sake about traffic congestion, macho driving, and reluctant drivers, and automobiles driven by choice, to name but a few issues concerning the purchase of temporary safety.
You said:
"We already had one [revolution] of sorts, the civil war, and that was a bloody mess."
Readers here will logically conclude all the 'wisdom' of your talk like this means you are really saying the people against their free will must give up liberty in order to purchase permanent safety, despite the eternal timeless self-evident truth that the people doing this will not deserve either liberty or safety, because to do so would be unpleasant.
And I haven't even touched on the 'wisdom' of your talk on the Constitution.
It is logical for readers here to conclude your talk here is the nonsensical talk of liberals.
PolishKnight| 4.11.12 @ 10:54AM
Why the 'wisdom' in quotes? I'm not Sotomayor and proclaiming myself wise. If we want to play associative word games here, I can find plenty of quotes and bad positions from Reagan, Jefferson, and Washington. I admire them more than the list of arch-villains you named, but the founding fathers were not gods. Far from it since their position on slavery created the mess of the civil war which undermined states' rights which is much of the reason why we're at where we are today.
But back to the subject at hand for a moment: When automobile corporations decided to kill public transit and the "cool" car owners celebrated making everyone into drivers, they helped to create the mess I refer to. If you don't like the police stopping you and questioning you, then making nearly everyone having to get a drivers' license and subject to hundreds of laws on the road daily didn't help matters.
Ok, hate me. Call me a supporter of tyrants. But it doesn't make these issues go away.
John Adams| 4.11.12 @ 12:40PM
In 1776, in 'Thoughts On Government', I stated:
"It already appears, that there must be in every society of men superiors and inferiors, because God has laid in the constitution and course of nature the foundations of the distinction."
Ok, your best shot at wisdom you have given reveals more of the nonsensical gibberish based on feelings that is the basis for liberal policies, and less of the logical judgement based on reason and experience that is the basis for conservative policies.
On the subject at hand, your solutions are more consistent with liberal policies, and less consistent with conservative policies.
For instance, your in essence misplaced ideological zealotry displays in essence sensitive foolishness when you state "Ok, hate me", and in essence does not show rational discernment.
The fox in the chicken coop here is the reminder that when you state "it's [vehicles with mandated GPS] going to need to be done", this inferior judgement is the type of inferior solution supported by inferior tyrannical liberals such as Obama, Pelosi, Frank, Holder, Napolitano, Sebelius, Salazar, Chu, Ginsberg, Gore and their inferior supporters of this inferior tyranny, and this issue is representative of the liberty and the safety that we the people are on the verge of not only not deserving, but no longer even possessing.
PolishKnight| 4.12.12 @ 11:27AM
What a delightful explosion of smug superiority and projection. You accuse me of being like a "liberal" yet your emotional tone, ad hominem attacks, and hypocrisy remind me a great deal of leftist moral bankruptcy. Keep in mind that they like to use flowery prose and get a dozen degrees from government funded leftist universities to back up their claims too.
In the meantime, you didn't address my primary point even as you repeated a snippet of it. We ALREADY live in a police state as far as the car is concerned. The police can look up your identity simply by scanning your tag. You are subject to hundreds of rules of the road and an army of police officers out to ticket you for every infraction since you're such an easy target. Most drivers don't experience the freedom of a wide, empty road where they can speed away with abandon. It's usually a congested expressway with a dozen signs and hazards. In other words, it's a commute. And you used big government as your best friend to force us to pay federal taxes to build these roads along with big corporations to kill public transportation a hundred years ago to force everyone into cars and now gripe that the idiots are slowing you down. That's not just hypocrisy, it's WHINING. And leftists, not "liberals" do it all the time (since they so abused that label they stole from Jefferson that it's meaningless.)
And the Holy Constitution's writers helped set up it's own death by not dealing with the slavery issue so that Abraham Lincoln later could undermine it. Then they allowed women suffragists to get comfy lifeboat seats on the Titanic while griping about how "oppressed" they were and later become Democrat voters. Don't blame me for that!
Thomas Paine| 4.12.12 @ 12:57PM
The primary point, that since we already live in a police state, we need to deal with it and do what needs to be done such as allow the mandate of GPS for every auto.
While we Holy Constitution writers reminiscent of morally bankrupt hypocritical emotional leftists that have undermined all the people make sure not to emotionally whine about emotional prose we are emotionally subjected to of emotional visions of what 100 mph crash victims not wearing seat belts would look like emotionally.
Maybe when what needs to be done is done, and government is transporting the public at a safe and sound 5 miles per hour through computerized GPS control of all of the people's vehicles, no longer will anyone need to be subjected to being put outside of their comfy zone through the emotional turmoil of emotionally imagining horrific crashes emotionally, because of the police state we Founders are responsible for.
Perhaps my morally bankrupt hypocritical emotional leftest namesake was smugly projecting sunshine patriots such as yourself as the dung liberty must every so often be refreshed with in order for the rest of all the people to be able to live in the emotional freedom that is emotionally worth dying for.
PolishKnight| 4.12.12 @ 6:01PM
If you define a police state as something to keep people from killing each other on the roads, then consider the anarchy that the Holy Constitution replaced: The articles of Confederation. You didn't address my point that the constitution's, er, Constitution's fundamental flaws are the reason for it being under attack today.
Regarding GPS controlled steering would speed up the roads as the slower, lesser skilled drivers would be going faster and the faster, unskilled drivers would be causing less accidents and therefore delays. In addition, there's another benefit: No more driving infractions! They would be technical writeups (similar to your tires being underinflated) or reports to be sent to the autodrive manufacturer to correct via firmware.
In other words, a GPS autodrive system would put a lot of traffic police out of work!
Is that so bad?
Ben Franklin| 4.12.12 @ 10:25PM
Yes.
What part of "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" don't you understand?
PolishKnight| 4.13.12 @ 1:27PM
What part of "We've already established what YOU are, we're just haggling over price" don't you understand?
Most of our interactions with the state are via the automobile. We have to go to the DMV, register vehicles, spend our time inspecting the vehicle, insurance and all to get on the road to have police monitor your every movement and find excuses to stop you to try to bust you for something else.
And this is the symbol of American freedom?
Mark Steyn once laughed when he saw a guy with a "live free or die" baseball cap going through the silly kubuke theater at the TSA line. I'm at least being honest.
George Washington| 4.13.12 @ 2:04PM
"Constitution's fundamental flaws"
I've heard that by one other person.
Reason and experience both forbid us to expect how many wrongs, exactly, that make a right?
What part of "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" don't you understand?
PolishKnight| 4.16.12 @ 6:16PM
I explained in great detail the various flaws of the Constitution and while you may consider what I say to be offensive, they are historical facts. And many times wrongs do make rights. Look at FDR partnering up with Josef Stalin. The firebombing of Dresden. The civil war and trashing of States' rights. We can haggle over the merit of justification (or lack of both) of those things and many more, but life is more complicated. If a Holy Constitution, like a Holy Bible, could solve all of society's ills then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Deal with it.
Benedict Arnold| 4.16.12 @ 7:40PM
Your words betray your tendency to state nonsense instead of logic.
Your words betray your tendency toward liberalism instead of conservatism.
Your words "If a Holy Constitution, like a Holy Bible, could solve all of society's ills then we wouldn't be having this discussion" betray that the Holy Bible has solved all of socety's ills, so then not only is there is no need for a Constitution whether holy, unholy, or sacred-neutral, so then also there is no need for you to discuss at all the Constitution with your words of betrayal.
You are a liberal traitor.
Renege with it.
Chris C| 4.10.12 @ 3:36PM
"This discussion reminds me of the movie I was watching on cable recently "Smoky and Bandit" where Burt Reynolds could outrun the Smokey's in a corvette"
The ability to distinguish a Corvette from a Trans-Am should be a requirement for participation in an automotive discussion.
PolishKnight| 4.10.12 @ 4:59PM
You're right! I remember, it was a black metal body and therefore a Trans Am.
Smug Superiority| 4.12.12 @ 10:44PM
Of course he's right. Because it was a Trans Am. Not because of what you remember but because it was a Trans Am.
Calling the Bandit's car a Corvette is on a par with saying you've been to 57 states with 1 more to go in order to have visited them all in the United States of America.
How do you say 'black metal body and therefore a Trans Am' in Austrian? Do you pronounce 'corpsman' with both the 'p' and the 's' too?
PolishKnight| 4.13.12 @ 1:37PM
I said he was right.
The Big E| 4.10.12 @ 10:20AM
I know dozens of people, literally, who drive half broken down 30+ year old cars or pickups which will NEVER be sought after collector items for the simple reason that they lack the resources to drive anything newer.
What will they do when their rides are outlawed?
This is not just an issue for the car enthusiast. This is an issue for anyone who can't afford a car payment and collision insurance but who still needs to get to work.
John Navratil| 4.10.12 @ 10:26AM
The Big E,
Relax! The state will provide. You might just need to leave home before you get back to do it.
Pecos Pete| 4.10.12 @ 11:01AM
Big E: Good point! Those without the ability to afford a vehicle will just have to move from Iowa (or where ever) to the 17th floor of government housing in Chicago and learn to enjoy food stamps. Total welfare because it is only fair.
Forastero| 4.13.12 @ 3:26AM
Well, if SCOTUS upholds Obamacare, you can be sure that they can force you to buy a new car. Isn't fascism grand?!
Crawler| 4.10.12 @ 11:15AM
A disheartening and scary article for an owner of an old car and two old trucks. I'd go so far to say this is just another wake up call as to how deep government can intrude into my life even further.
I guess Progressives like Obama will soon be saying people like me not only tend to stick with their religion and guns, but their non-GPS/computer vehicles, too.
From my cold dead accelerator foot...screw 'em...
Vern Crisler| 4.10.12 @ 11:41AM
Of all the things to get upset about, sheesh! I love my GPS, dammit.
The Bruce| 4.10.12 @ 12:25PM
Same here. I just don't want my GPS keeping tabs on me for the purpose of disclosure to the government or an insurance company
Paul Milenkovic| 4.10.12 @ 11:59AM
When the West triumphed over Communism with the Fall of the Berlin Wall, some car enthusiasts tried to import a Trabant, that automotive symbol of the failure of Communism.
Nothing doing, couldn't bring that plastic-paneled two-stroke beauty stateside, even as a trophy of Victory in the Cold War. Too many DOT and EPA regs that could not be met. Is there any irony in this?
Petronius| 4.10.12 @ 12:38PM
People in the southwest used to buy VW Beetles in Mexico for next to zilch when we had regular gas. California got the State Dept. to embargo them.
Rurik| 4.10.12 @ 12:17PM
This is just a part of he war on travel. Nobody should go anywhere without government authorization. No wasteful vacations, no smuggling, no meeting with your friend in the next county to commiserate and conspire. No escaping from liberal social engineering and urban flash mobs by moving to an outlying suburb - you should live in the shadow of y0our factory/office. No shopping for unauthorized produce in the countryside. No traveling to seditious conferences like CPAC. Wait for it - there will soon be Internal Passports which you must keep at all timesHow very European! How very Soviet!
The Big E| 4.10.12 @ 5:00PM
"Nobody should go anywhere without government authorization. No wasteful vacations, no smuggling, no meeting with your friend in the next county to commiserate and conspire. No escaping from liberal social engineering and urban flash mobs by moving to an outlying suburb - you should live in the shadow of y0our factory/office. No shopping for unauthorized produce in the countryside."
Sounds remarkably like the land of Panem in The Hunger Games.
Petronius| 4.10.12 @ 12:32PM
We have to remember that this kind of thing started with the objective of putting the shade tree mechanics and freelancers out of business because the dealers wanted everybody obliged to come to them for service and pay top rates. GM's 5 pointed star sockets were a pain for a lot of people.
I bought a used Ford Edge which is perfect for my situation but didn't know it had been in a wreck. The cosmetics were perfect. But the battery was cracked. I ate that C note. Then the radio shorted out the new one because a bread board inside that unit kept drawing power after shut down. Replacing it was another $600. The piece of resistance is that I then had to put out another $150 to have a software engineer program it so that it would function, as without doing that it only plays one disc at a time, requires manual tuning, and the controls don't illuminate after dark with the headlights on. F*** You and your computer chips Mr. Gates et. al. ? How much of the price of new cars goes just for software licenses? And how much of that winds up funding campaigns of the agony aunts in Congress who saddle us with this tyrannical tripe? If I win the lottery and even if I don't. I might get a car from Fastlane if the deal is right. Also understand that you can't get a conventional car loan to buy anything that old. And you better have a sympathetic insurance agent. But that's where it will end. We now must be insured. No company will write you a policy on a collector vehicle unless they want the business.
Oh to hear the muscle cars roar from afar as they once did on weekends after the bars closed.
Brian72| 4.10.12 @ 1:19PM
There is a company that insures only classics, collectibles and older vehicles. Let's say you have a very nice '67 Corvette convertible sporting the 435 hp 427 cu. in. big block V-8, 4 speed Muncie manual, factory side pipes. These cars are worth $25-60,000 in good driver condition, and 2 or 3 hundred thousand for an all original restored trailer queen.
A company called Hagerty insurance specializes in this sort of business, and they advertise during the Barrett-Jackson auction on SPEED.
The free market is a wonderful thing, let's hope that our automotive Commissars in DC don't try to outlaw classic American cars because it will get ugly for them. There will be a revolt. Notice the greenies haven't really gone after motorsports yet? They are too smart for that.
Ron| 4.10.12 @ 1:24PM
And as long as I can get them, I will stick to my V-8 440 Interceptor Police Pack Crown Vics, preferably pre-2000...Love those cars! My personal ride is a 1997 Crown Vic LX, V-8.
Artichokian| 4.10.12 @ 4:03PM
Now you're talkin'. Crown Vic, baby, best car on the road. Plenty of room in the back for the big boys. Handles like a dream.
I've got a '93 F-150 160 thousand miles. Beautiful truck. I hope the simpering lefties try to take it away from me. They will be met with a withering curtail of steel!
tim's mom| 4.10.12 @ 1:39PM
Youngest son had to part with his beloved '66 Chrysler New Yorker last week. It stopped running about 3 years ago and our local paint police/HOA thought it to be a blot on our pristine neighborhood even when parked in his carport. A new moter for the beast was not in his budget for several more years. He renewed the liscense last summer, including insurance just incase someone would get a hernia when pushing it to the metal recyclers. (We live in California where such things happen).
Its new home will be a Pick and Pull lot where bits and pieces of the real Detroit will go to folks
who appreciate the real thing. His Chrysler will be imortal.
Forastero| 4.13.12 @ 3:31AM
tim's mom wrote:
"Youngest son had to part with his beloved '66 Chrysler New Yorker last week."
:'o(
Bill| 4.10.12 @ 1:48PM
Freedom never goes away. We just have to keep fighting for it.
Brian72| 4.10.12 @ 1:48PM
Speaking of the Chevy 427, one of the greatest engines ever produced, compare the Chevy 427 of 1968 with the 427 of today. In '68 this engine block was cast steel and was based on GM's "big block" architecture. Some performance models had aluminum heads. It was powerful and sturdy, but somewhat heavy. There was a limited run of all aluminum cast 427s that were much lighter developed for NASCAR. These found their way into some very rare and fast cars back then such as a few Camaros, Chevelles and Novas. These were sleepers with no badging, stripes and plain hubcaps. They also had aluminum fenders and hood for better drag strip performance.
Today, Chevy makes the LS7 engine available in the Z06 Corvette. This engine is based on the newest small block architecture, cast in new strong aluminum alloy, and makes 505hp out of the box with far less weight, far better fuel economy and reliability. Still 427 cu.in. of displacement. An automotive journalist drove a Z06 Vette in '07 across the country and was able to average almost 30mpg in a 500 horse Vette, driving smartly with the 6 speed manual. Chevy was able to produce a safe, street legal 500 horse Vette without triggering the Gas Guzzler Tax. So what does DC do? Change all the rules! Now you have to get 35mpg or pay the tax.
Americans will not tolerate legislating away all the fun and passion from our automotive lives.
Myself, I would love to have a '78 Trans Am, complete with the screaming chicken on the hood, but rebuilt with the above mentioned 6 speed manual, LS7 V-8, modern suspension and brakes. This is called a resto-mod, for restored/modified. Classic looks, modern performance. Best of both worlds. My SUV of choice would be a '57 Chevy Nomad sporting a GM Performance LSX 454.
This industry is huge, and the Democrats would be making a big mistake to attack this part of Americana. They will probably do it anyway.
oldfart| 4.10.12 @ 4:19PM
For those of in High School during the early 60's our song with "She's so fine, my 409".
Gas at 24.9 cents/gallon. A bunch of us would scrape together $5 in change just to go crusin' on Friday night.
SetOurChildrenFree | 4.10.12 @ 2:08PM
Control of where you go, what you do, what you eat, what your kids learn, etc. is the last step before total tyranny. Don't let the government do this, even in the name of environmentalism, safety, security, or just "information gathering." The information will only be used against you, not for you, otherwise you could use your own information to benefit yourself much better. If you don't want this country to turn into the Peoples Republic of Amerika, you better make yourself a nuisance to your congressman.
Brian72| 4.10.12 @ 2:13PM
A secret fantasy I have dreamed about for a few years is to turn up one day in front of Al Gore's big gated mansion in a '70 Chevelle SS, blue with white stripes and a smokin' 454. Turn up the 2,000 watt aftermarket stereo and blast Skynard's Free Bird while doing NASCAR style burnouts until he calls the authorities. Then it's time for the Dukes of Hazzard getaway.
Ahh, well. A guy can dream.
Jones | 4.11.12 @ 1:14AM
I'd give Al Gore a 'lawn job'. That's when you drive up on a guy's lawn and do donuts, torn turf and flying sod all over the place.
Brian72| 4.10.12 @ 2:45PM
I forgot to mention the Gadsden Flag my passenger would be waving furiously out the window. :)
randyinrocklin| 4.10.12 @ 3:07PM
I'm sure the inevitable "President"Romney will be happy to oblige. Pandering as usual with no convictions.
Jim Strohmeier| 4.10.12 @ 3:36PM
Here in Colorado the state exempts vehicles 20 yrs old or older, from emissions. Have you ever driven behind some of these toxic junkers? I'm a true car enthusiast but many of these "classics" are health hazards, air quality harm notwithstanding. A simple conversion to natural gas eliminates much of the harmful emissions from these vehicles, without significant modifications, and can be done to both gas and diesel powered vehicles. Reasonable agreement can be made on this subject. And, anyone with a brain stem knows that tracking devices can be removed or altered in new vehicles, thus creating an entire new industry!
The Big E| 4.10.12 @ 5:06PM
"And, anyone with a brain stem knows that tracking devices can be removed or altered in new vehicles, thus creating an entire new industry!"
And anyone who USES their brain stem knows that if such devices become mandatory equipment, it will become a crime to tamper with them.
So you propose tampering with or removing a device designed to give the govt real time information on your travel habits, routes, miles driven, avg speed, etc, and think nobody will notice?
Shadetree fixit Days| 4.11.12 @ 3:48AM
Well, one would have to try, right?
Besides, at what point does Google, Yahoo! or any tracker items (e.g. a Sprint cell phone mast) hit information overload?
Just because it is a crime does not mean that law abiding citizens cannot protest by not complying. How many of us plan to not comply with the mandatory stipulations under Obamacare?
Actually we are going to have to advocate for a lot of civil disobedience in the future. e.g. Catholics and Protestant organizations that will not bow down to Secretary Sebelius.
And we might be giving government info trackers and tracking capabilities more than their due. How does one track what 200,000,000+ motor vehicles are doing during any given week?
The Road Warrior| 4.11.12 @ 9:28AM
The Big E,
No, no, no... You take your tracking devices out and surreptitiously stick them in a GSA vehicle!
THEN no one will notice!
oldfart| 4.10.12 @ 4:09PM
Something to think about. I am sure DHS and your insurance already have.
All cars today have computers. These computers records so many minutes of data. If you are in an accident the computer records how fast you were going. Speeding? Will your insurance company cover you?
Some cars have XM radio. Even if off the device it is monitoring where you tavel throught the 'birds'. DHS does NOT need a court order to monitor your movements IF you willingly give up the data.
Can anyone say big brother?
tyr| 4.11.12 @ 3:52AM
This is off topic a bit but related. We're all here asking questions about the computers onboard all cars these days. And the GPS systems. OnStar, etc. And being monitored, tracked. And being told that GM or Firestone or somebody is just monitoring this all so they can better fulfill their customer service obligations.
Uh-huh.
Oldfart, not just are we being kept up with via satellites/GPS/car radio, isn't our cell phone always "on?" Even when turned off? All these SmartPhones with GPS capability just mean we can be tracked if some "big brother entity" is of a mind to do so.
Right?
The Road Warrior| 4.11.12 @ 9:35AM
Yes, you can be tracked via your cellphone, but only if it is emitting a signal, which it should not be doing if it is powered off.
What is far more discouraging is there is a license plate recording and tracking capability currently being tested in Washington DC. Over 500 cameras at hidden locations take a pictures and record the license plates of every passing vehicle. The plate number goes into a computer database and is stored permanently. If the police are looking for a particular license plate, the computer will flag it instantly when the vehicle passes and give the location instantly to the police. This system is so effective it will probably be enacted in multiple jurisdictions nation wide. Once it is in place, the police will be able to find you in a matter of minutes if you are driving in your car.
Moe Blotz| 4.10.12 @ 4:54PM
The illustration for this article about burnouts shows a pansy blue Ford Mustang, powered by a six cylinder engine I will bet. You could not get a chirp from the skinny tires on that open axle. One of the cars mentioned in this daisy chain should have held forth prominently.
Rybbe| 4.10.12 @ 11:32PM
My 12 year old dreams of owning a Ferrari someday (ya, I know...) I tell her, don't expect to be able to buy a new one when you are old enough. They will be deemed illegal by the "International Community." She may be able to aquire one on the Black Market, but will she be able to drive it????
Jay| 4.11.12 @ 4:07AM
I'd like some advice and honest feedback.
Am I weird?
Recently we had a new and used car bonanza here where six local auto dealers brought out four, five hundred new and used cars. Sort of a Spring Fling auto market in a large open sports arena parking lot.
I looked at a Honda for just a few minutes before being accosted. (Who teaches car salesmen their pitch routines? Their manners?) I looked at one model, the new CRV. However, within seconds I dismissed it to the complete exasperation of my new BFF, aka the Honda car salesman.
He wanted to know why I rejected it. I showed him the car key/remote and pushed its buttons. I told him I did not like the beeps and the headlights going off just for unlocking or locking the car.
He was befuddled. So I tried to explain. I live near a hood and have to skirt around it and go to other hoods in the course of a week. I explained that particularly in the hours of darkness I did not like announcing my presence (and leaving the car unattended) by the beeps and lights, that these beeps 'n lights wake up the carjackers, miscreants, and thieves to a potential cash opportunity.
Honda salesman really wasn't tracking with me.
Are you? So, am I weird? Or do we always have to put up with these stupid, unnecessary features on all modern cars?
BTW -- Same day I asked an on site Honda mechanic if the keyless entry could be programmed to NOT beep and light. He said no-can-do.
JAC| 4.11.12 @ 10:38AM
What I find irritating is that unlocking the car the old-fashioned way, with the key, sets off the burglar alarm.
Forastero| 4.13.12 @ 3:41AM
Jay wrote:
"He was befuddled. So I tried to explain. I live near a hood and have to skirt around it and go to other hoods in the course of a week. I explained that particularly in the hours of darkness I did not like announcing my presence (and leaving the car unattended) by the beeps and lights, that these beeps 'n lights wake up the carjackers, miscreants, and thieves to a potential cash opportunity."
No, you're not weird, you just live in the 'hood, as I do. You're right, I don't want anybody to be drawn to me when I have to sometimes run a zig-zag pattern to my front door from the car. (Ok, I only had to run a zig-zag once to my door during a shooting.)
Cloudbuster | 4.11.12 @ 10:21AM
I wonder if there will be a thriving market in illicit devices that disable remote tracking and control systems.
There is already a black market for fake replacement airbags to substitute for the enormously expensive replacement bags that are "required" for replacement after their typically pointless deployment in fender-benders.
Cloudbuster | 4.11.12 @ 10:29AM
It's kind of a revelation for kids raised on modern engines to crack open something like an old VW beetle or, really, any car from the sixties: Engine, plugs, carburetor, battery, alternator, distributor, coil, starter, oil pump and (for water cooled models) radiator, water pump, and that's pretty much all she wrote. Those cars meant freedom because anybody could keep one going with a decent tool set in their backyard.
My old Ford 8N tractor is the same way. Built in 1952 and there are literally thousands of them still going strong on farms all around the country.
afvallenineenweek | 4.12.12 @ 11:15AM
I'm still satisfied wih my old mercedes 450se 1978