The American Spectator : Still in Denial on Iran

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Still in Denial on Iran

By P. David Hornik on 2.20.12 @ 6:08AM

Is it rational to view its regime as rational?

U.S. national security adviser Tom Donilon is now in Israel for talks with top officials. The Telegraph reports that while Washington claims the visit is routine, "Israel's option of launching a strike on Iranian nuclear facilities was expected to be the urgent topic of discussion."

Israel has indeed been getting some further unfriendly messages from Iran lately. Last week Iran attacked or attempted to attack Israeli diplomats in Azerbaijan, India, and Thailand, with Israeli sources warning of further attempts. Currently two Iranian warships have docked at Syria's port of Tartus.

Yet the message from Washington continues to be -- don't do anything, the situation's under control. It was further amplified over the weekend by Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey, who told CNN:

It's not prudent at this point to decide to attack Iran. A strike at this time would be destabilizing and wouldn't achieve their [Israel's] long-term objectives…. We are of the opinion that Iran is a rational actor. We also know, or we believe we know, that the Iranian regime has not decided to make a nuclear weapon.

Those finely attuned to Iran's rationality could feel further encouraged by its recent letter to EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton, which proposes yet another round of nuclear talks and promises "new initiatives." Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called it an "important step." State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland was more restrained, noting that "we've had negotiations that… ate up a lot of time and didn't go where they needed to go."

But is it rational to view Iran as rational? Steadily mounting evidence says no.

Last week Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu asserted that the sanctions on Iran are not working, and "if anybody needed a reminder… it was the guided tour by Iran's president in the centrifuge hall." He was referring to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's proud flaunting of Iran's new, domestically produced nuclear fuel rods at a Tehran reactor.

Netanyahu added:

They send children into mine fields, they have suicide bombers, they send tens of thousands of rockets into our cities and towns. Such a regime should obviously not have an atomic bomb….

The Israeli leader, though, is not the only one with a grim assessment of the sanctions' effectiveness. The Guardian reported on Friday that U.S. officials "are increasingly convinced that sanctions will not deter Tehran" from pursuing nukes, and that "the US will be left with no option but to launch an attack on Iran or watch Israel do so."

The Guardian quotes one U.S. official saying the "problem is that the guys in Tehran are behaving like sanctions don't matter, like their economy isn't collapsing, like Israel isn't going to do anything." And another one: "We don't see a way forward. The record shows that there is nothing to work with."

And at a meeting of the Senate Armed Services Committee on Thursday, Defense Intelligence Agency chief Lt. Gen. Ronald Burgess said Iran is "not close" to stopping its nuclear program. Yet, while allowing that "Iran's technical advances, particularly in uranium enrichment" mean Iran is "more than capable" of producing a weapon, Burgess said that decision would be made by Supreme Leader Ali Khameini -- who "would base [it] on a cost-benefit analysis," something that "plays to the value of sanctions…."

Again, that strange mix of recognition and denial of reality, as if to say: yes, there is a threat, but we're dealing with it effectively even though the indications are that we're not.

The Iran-as-rational-actor notion is even harder to sustain in light of mounting concerns about Iranian terror attacks on U.S. soil. Such worries are, of course, more than plausible given Iran's plot, uncovered last October, to murder the Saudi ambassador to the U.S. in a Washington restaurant.

Meanwhile Britain's Sky News reports that "Iran and al Qaeda's core leadership… have established an 'operational relationship' amid fears the terror group is planning a spectacular attack against the West." Sky News says it has seen a "secret intelligence memo" that states:

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About the Author

P. David Hornik is a writer and translator in Beersheva, Israel, blogging at PDavidHornik.typepad.com.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (137) | Leave a comment

Avi Marranazo| 2.20.12 @ 6:44AM

As a patriotic American, I say to Mr. Hornik and all Israelis: by all means take care of this battle yourself. We've had enough of fighting your fights.

benny havens| 2.20.12 @ 7:15AM

When are the pacifists going to understand that you can’t sit at a conference table and have a reasonable discussion with a person who views you as an infidel and wants to cut your head off? How can you trust what he says when he is 100% willing to sacrifice himself to achieve that end.

How many times do you need to see a member of the religion of peace strap on a bomb vest and kill innocent people, before something is done about it? What happened last week is a perfect example of what I am taking about. How many more of these idiots are roaming the countryside?

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 9:58AM

Benny, who wants to sit at a conference table and try to reason with Iran? America should just butt out. We've been butting in every since Washington warned us not too. We are tired of policing the world while at home we go broke, socialism creeps in and our civilisation decays. We are not pacifists. Nor are we the world's cops. Also your fearmongering about getting our heads chopped off has grown tiresome.

benny havens| 2.20.12 @ 7:46PM

I am not suggesting that we be the world’s policemen. I believe that we should bring our soldiers home from Europe, Japan and Korea. We don’t believe we need to fund the defense of these countries anymore.

What I am suggesting is that Iran is no freedom loving republic looking to make nice with the rest of the world. Five foot two Ahmadinejad is another short-legged dictator like Napoleon, Hitler or Stalin. Only he doesn’t have a political ideology that he is peddling, his is religious.

If he can blow up the Great Satan he believes, in his heart, that his god will find favor with him. If he could sneak a suitcase nuke into New York, Chicago or LA, he would. If you don’t think so, you are some naïve individual.

Again, I don’t want us to be the policemen of the world. However, if you are minding your own business riding to work some sunny morning, and an Iranian fanatic blows you up, I want the US Military to find who is responsible and eliminate them. If it happens to be Ahmadinejad, so be it.

Trish| 2.20.12 @ 8:03PM

You are so right Benny. Nevillism never works with barbaric aggressors. Only strength prevents war. We are dealing with a regime that believes it must provide a world war to their messiah the mahdi. As per Hitler, they have already told us their plans. As with ol Neville, idiots believe they can make deals with the devil. No, pascifists will never learn.

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 8:58PM

Strength prevents war? How much stronger can we be? What you mean is invasion. Another war. Why don't we just invade every muslim country on earth? Will you feel safer then? You probably will, as long as you dont have to go over there and step on an IED.

Trish| 2.20.12 @ 11:03PM

It was Hitler who did the invading dear Hobbes. Israel has invaded no nation. They have been attacked each and everytime. I am against invading, but am for strong defense which indeed prevents invasion.

Hobbes| 2.21.12 @ 11:04AM

"Across the Middle East in the last decade, we lost 6,000 soldiers and spent hundreds of billions of dollars. Yet we have never been more disliked, more reviled, more hated in that part of the world." PB

Hobbes| 2.21.12 @ 11:06AM

Can you hear yourself? Israel has invaded Lebanon about 10 times! What a colossal idiot!

Hobbes| 2.21.12 @ 11:06AM

Can you hear yourself? Israel has invaded Lebanon about 10 times! What a colossal idiot!

mmercier| 2.22.12 @ 1:22AM

if something is not done in the interim between now and an Israeli strike, the situation will end up going nuclear.

when that point is crossed, worrying about another regional conflict will seem like the goodold days.

Jack in Wi.| 2.20.12 @ 7:50AM

Iran has no nuclear weapons program, as all our intelligence agencies have just said again. It has a lawful and heavily inspected program of peaceful nuclear development. The Iranians have attacked no one in 300 years. Israel has 500 atomic weapons and threatens to attack most of theMiddle East and Europe as it uses it's weapons to blackmail the whole world. Israel is a rogue nuclear power that needs to be disarmed and integrated. It is run by lunatics and racists.

Ryan| 2.20.12 @ 8:21AM

Again and again you come out with the 300 years number, as if funding terrorist activities doesn't count.

Iran is engaging militarily in other ways.

Jack in Wi.| 2.20.12 @ 8:50AM

Israel was founded by terrorists and is still run by them. Israel has a worldwide assassination and terror operation. It thinks it can do anything it likes and the world is supposed to grovel before it. If you attack Iran and try to stop them from peaceful nuclear development, then Turkey, Egypt and Algeria will get nuclear weapons. The Pakistani's and Saudi Arabians already have them. Who do you think funded Pakistans nuclear program? The Muslims are not going to live under Israeli nuclear domination forever. The only solution to this problem is for sane Jews to take over in Israel and make a permanent and just peace. I don't believe there are any sane Jews who write on this site.

KyMouse| 2.20.12 @ 10:17AM

Before Jews began returning to their ancient, God-given homeland, the Arabs had made it a wasteland (as Mark Twain and others observed). In less than a century, however, Israel has become a productive land that grows so many flowers, vegetables and fruits, it exports them to other countries. Israel is a leader in technological innovation and pharmaceutical breakthroughs that have improved life for people all around the world (including me).

A 2008 study conducted by the John Kennedy School for Government at Harvard University found that 77 percent of Israeli Arabs would rather live in Israel than in any other country in the world. Those Israeli Arabs appreciate the fact that they have more freedoms, and a higher standard of living, than the vast majority of Arabs elsewhere.

The Jewish people have been a blessing to every nation in which they have lived. Their native land, Israel, has become a blessing to the entire world almost overnight, through innovations such as drip irrigation, camera pills (which allow doctors to see inside patients' digestive tracts), and even cherry tomatoes.

Israel's enemies are our enemies, too. They hate us as much as they hate Israel -- Little Satan and Big Satan are hated together. We cannot save ourselves by abandoning Israel.

Sean| 2.20.12 @ 1:38PM

Yeah we have been blessed by Feinstein, Schumer, Boxer, Lieberman, Ginsberg ect. No need for Sharia law to destroy American values when we are blessed by such people.

tsd| 2.20.12 @ 11:37AM

Based on your comments and conclusions.... sanity must have a new definition. Many of your facts and all of you logic is flawed. Iran is well past peaceful nuclear development and well in to weapons grade enrichment, detonation and delivery systems. Even someone like you should be able to look up the inspection reports, scientific data, news reports and claims from the Iranian leaders on this to understand they are interested in more than electricity!

Hugo Stiglitz| 2.20.12 @ 3:59PM

"Say auweisersain to you Nazi ballsss!"

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 10:01AM

Ryan, you want to know who is funding terrorists actively killing America soldiers? Our allies The Pakistanis. When does that invasion start?????

Ryan| 2.20.12 @ 1:28PM

Not calling for an invasion, just stating how Iran isn't exactly an innocent - or rational - player here.

albert constantine jr| 2.20.12 @ 1:33PM

Actually, what the Predator drones haven't done there yet to deal with some of the Pakistani issues, DEVGRU helped advance at the beginning of May of this year.

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 5:04PM

“The requirements of freedom apply fully to the entire Islamic world,” said Bush in 2002. We will not cease fighting wars and invading countries until every last Arab-Turk-Paki-Indonesian is a christian democrat.

Bobloblaw| 2.20.12 @ 8:37AM

Goes easy on Iran. They are the only ones who are willing to carry out Jack's dream of a second Holocaust.

Bobloblaw| 2.20.12 @ 8:47AM

""Iran has no nuclear weapons program, as all our intelligence agencies have just said again""

They did say that back in 2006 (and were wrong or more likely trying to stop Bush from attacking Iran), but they havent just said so again. So that is a lie.

Israel threatens no one, Iran does. Israel has never threatened to attack most of the middle east.

Jack, you have diseased mind. Your Joo hatred consumes you. You wish daily for the elimination of Jews from the earth. Facts matter not to someone like you, so there is no point in pointing out how wrong you are. You arent rational. Youre a vile mass of hate probably caused by the fact your precious daughter had sexual intercourse with a communist Jew. I can understand the unhappiness your daughter brought you, but you shouldnt blame her promiscious behavior on Joos

Jack in Wi.| 2.20.12 @ 8:56AM

Boblaw it is you who has a diseased mind. You are calling for a nuclear holocaust and a possible world war. China, India, Pakistan, Europe and Japan depend on Middle East oil. A criminal attack on a peaceful Iran by Israel will put this worldwide depression in much more serious collapse. Israel is a criminal, rogue state that has to be stopped before it destroys the modern world.

Ayatollah Khameini| 2.20.12 @ 4:02PM

Good! Excellent, my little dhimmi! You're propaganda campaign against the Yehuddis & their Christian enablers is proceeding better than I could've ever hoped!

Allahu Snackbar!

Bobloblaw| 2.20.12 @ 8:13PM

yes, kill all the Jooos Jack

Nemo| 2.20.12 @ 9:16AM

Israel has 500 nukes, eh? Last time it was alleged to be 300. You've counted them, have you? Nice of them to let you inspect their nuclear stockpile. Ot ae you just an anti-Semitic f**kwit.

Jack in Wi.| 2.20.12 @ 10:30AM

How can I count them? They refuse to sign the Nuclear Non proliferation treaties and be inspected like Iran is. leave Iran alone. They offered us a full peace in 2003. Powell, Rice and Armitage wanted to start negotiantions immediatly. Bush Cheney and the neocons refused. The Arabs have offered Israel a complete peace in 2002 with full trading rights. Of course Irael would have go back to it's 1967 borders. Israel wants piece. It wants a piece of Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and of course all of Palistine.

tsd| 2.20.12 @ 11:44AM

And Iran is run by Sunday School Teachers. If my memory serves the head of the government of Iran has said all Jews should be exterminated... and you are claiming the government in Israel is full of racists and lunatics. You may need to think this trough a bit more????

mmercier| 2.22.12 @ 1:29AM

nations do not generally place their peaceful nuclear facilities under a mile of granite.

Jack in Wi.| 2.20.12 @ 7:55AM

Israel has no plans to attack Iran but wants to suck in America into another war. Israel is far too yellow to risk an attack alone. It could not handle 100 soldiers killed in Lebanon and one prisoner of war. To attack Iran puts the whole idea of Israel at risk. The world is sick to death of what Israel is doing. The world can't stand a huge increase in oil prices. Saudi Arabia is cutting production as a warning. Oil prices are the higest they have ever been at this time of year. Look for 20 dollar a gal. gas, if you can get it.

Con Chef (NB)| 2.20.12 @ 3:58PM

Thank you for your dialy propaganda, Mullah Jack.

I got it now.

Jews=evil

Iran/everyone who denigrates Jews=sweetness & light

mmercier| 2.22.12 @ 1:33AM

Israel exhibits that nasty trait of valuing the lives of its people.

seven million people surrounded by three hundred million savages tend to value the individual... performer in the field.

Bobloblaw| 2.20.12 @ 8:38AM

Which war has the US fought for Israel?

Avi Marranazo| 2.20.12 @ 12:33PM

Bobloblaw, if you don't know which wars we've fought for Israel, you're either disingenuous or not paying attention.

Con Chef (NB)| 2.20.12 @ 3:56PM

Yeah, those insidious Jews just have us all jumping thorough hoops, don't they?

For my own part, I just emptied the last $5 out of your bank account & will be forcing you to eat noodle kugel & LIKE it, goy boy.

You people are a real hoot. "Its ze CHOOOOS who make us do everything." Morons.

Bobloblaw| 2.20.12 @ 8:15PM

yes, those Joooos who are 2% control the other 98%

Con Chef (NB)| 2.20.12 @ 9:51PM

Well, you are a "tame goy." Be sure to check you "tame goy" funded Swiss bank account for your latest deposit for your recent efforts.

:-)

Bobloblaw| 2.20.12 @ 8:15PM

Then tell me. Vietnam??? Korea??? oh you mean the 1991 Gulf War which had Eqypt and Syria as members against Iraq??? I know the Joos started WW1 and WW2...

mmercier| 2.22.12 @ 1:38AM

name one.

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 5:24PM

Ron Paul: To me, if you overthrow a regime, it’s an act of war, and it backfires on us. It has never served us well over the last 100 years. It’s sort of like what we did with 1953 by installing the Shah. We worked with the regime, we worked the British then, and we’re still suffering the consequences…

HUMAN EVENTS: You’re saying overthrowing Mossadegh in 1953 and putting in the Shah led to the hostage-taking and 9/11?

Ron Paul: Absolutely.

H.E.: In other words, the militant fundamentalist regime took revenge on us for overthrowing the secular left-of-center regime in ’53?

Ron Paul: There is always some militant-violent-jihadist looking to rally that faction, but they have to have incentives. The incentive is when we impose our will on them and we get involved in their internal politics. Besides, it contradicts everything the Founders theorized, and there’s no constitutional authority for us to march around the world undermining different governments.

mmercier| 2.22.12 @ 1:45AM

blowback... it happens.

the Arab spring blowhack is occurring in real time with real people.

the facts that mistakes were made in the past does not justify foolish decision in the present.

Occam's Tool| 2.20.12 @ 5:59PM

Avi: which fight was that? Iraq I and II was over oil, not Israel. Iran, the one the Israelis want, keep sgetting blocked by the US.

Wolf T.| 2.20.12 @ 7:18PM

Pray tell: how many fights has America fought for Israel? How many American soldiers have died for Israel? How many American troops are permanenetly stationed in Israel?

The ansers are--none, none and none.

Hobbes| 2.21.12 @ 11:07AM

WRONG WRONG AND WRONG. Across the Middle East in the last decade, we lost 6,000 soldiers and spent hundreds of billions of dollars. Yet we have never been more disliked, more reviled, more hated in that part of the world.

mmercier| 2.22.12 @ 2:00AM

we lost 10,000 men in an morning and afternoon on 06Jun44. 1/4 kia. the general rate...

50,000 Gettysburg.

12,000 at okinowa.

JimH| 2.20.12 @ 6:45AM

If you are a oppressive regime having nukes is perfectly rational. If you are nasty and don't have them you can wind up like Saddam or Qaddafi. If you have them, like North Korea the West treats you politely and gives you stuff. The trick is to get them before your enemies take you out.

Bobloblaw| 2.20.12 @ 8:39AM

You are correct, this is precisely why it was a bad idea to take of Kadaffi. Kadaffi had obey the west and gotten rid of ALL his WMD programs and had not been involved in terrorism for nearly 20 years.

The message from attacking Qadaffi was clear: Arm yourselves with WMDs

SmokeCamels| 2.20.12 @ 7:09AM

Those ragheads have always been a pain in the ass, let's nuke them before they do something dumb again.

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 12:43PM

SmokeCamels: You have to have an IQ above 70 to comment.

SmokeCamels| 2.20.12 @ 1:56PM

Did I hear a camel fart?

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 5:07PM

Smartest thing you've said so far.

Occam's Tool| 2.20.12 @ 6:00PM

Hobbes: are you nasty, poor, brutish, or short?

Calvin| 2.20.12 @ 7:30PM

Don't forget solitary. In fact it is Solitary, Poor, Nasty, Brutish and Short. They are a liberal think tank advising Obama on the economy. It is run out of the basement of one of the many gay trolls that invest the Spectator comment pages. Hobbes is obviously a deranged sort but that is a result that even some of his very best friends are a pain in his ass.

Calvin| 2.20.12 @ 7:31PM

Make that infest.

mmercier| 2.22.12 @ 2:08AM

the trick is to resolve the issue without flaming the planet.

a limited nuclear exchange will cost a billion innocents their lives via global crop disruption in the ensuing period.

John786| 2.20.12 @ 7:22AM

The case for iran's irrationality has not been made. Completely the opposite. Iran has continued to act in a rational and calibrated fashion. It's scientist are routinely murdered, it's facilities are sabotaged, suicide attacks against its senior officials are routine. It has acted generally with great patience when faced with these provocations. Iran achieved mastery of Uranium enrichment thirty+ years ago. Remember going from 1% to 100% ( weapon grade) is only about political will. The Iranians face no scientific obstacle from doing so. They have not done so. They want their full rights under the NPT. Rightly they can not allow enemies to define strategic scientific goals that are outside the NPT. All tensions will disappear if iran's rights under the NPT are respected. Hell or a portion of it is the alternative policy for rapturers & like minded people.

Ryan| 2.20.12 @ 8:22AM

So....we should allow a nation which has overtly stated it supports genocide and funds terrorists to gain nuclear power, when it has easy access to other power production?

John786| 2.20.12 @ 8:55AM

The west has demonstrably committed countless genocides over the last many centuries. We wont include invasions/ nation building of recent times. Which genocide are you blaming the Iranians for. The last time I looked Iran was a sovereign state. It can decide for itself what it wants in the energy mix. What business is it of yours. As I have said before engagement with the iranians must be based on the NPT if it is to have success.

Quartermaster| 2.20.12 @ 9:07AM

If their rights under the NPT is all they seek, then they should open up to inspection by International agencies. They refuse, as did Saddam (he went through the motions, but he actually gamed them). As a result, they forfeit international trust.

There's nothing magical about the inspections. It's mostly an accounting regime to show fissile materials haven't been diverted to a weapons program. If weapons are not something they seek, then inspections hold no terror for you. On the other hand, if you are diverting material, then inspections are the last thing you want and so you refuse them, as Iran is doing.

John786| 2.20.12 @ 9:30AM

You may not be aware. The iranians are already subject to the most intense inspections regime. These go well beyond normal requirements. You may not be aware. Iran unilaterally suspended enrichment for two years. Nothing but threats were given in return. You may not be aware. Iran agreed a deal with brazil/turkey to export all enriched uranium in return for fuel rods. Rejected. It seems clear that Iran's enemies want it to be destroyed. They are not really concerned by the nuclear issue Per Se. It is the end they seek. Über irrationality.

Ryan| 2.20.12 @ 1:31PM

Iranian leadership has a stated goal of wanting Israel gone, and they actively sponsor two groups - Hamas and Hezbollah - which have the eradication of Israel IN THEIR CHARTER.

The West has done its share of evil at times; but that is no reason to not defend those whom others would eradicate.

Dr. X| 2.20.12 @ 9:09AM

Iran is completely rational. However, part of their calculus of rationality is that a) the U.S. is the Great Satan, and b) they will achieve heavenly reward from Allah if they defeat the Great Satan.

So they are rational, but they are less likely to be deterred by classical nuclear deterrence. Unlike the Soviets, who did not believe in an afterlife, Iranians might be willing to risk a few megadeaths knowing that they will be rewarded for eternity.

The NPT is a bunch of horsecrap. Anybody who cites Iran's rights under the NPT is a fool. The globe is a condition of anarchy in which all nations must pursue their security by any means possible. Little scraps of paper like the NPT mean absolutely nothing. (Oh, BTW, North Korea cited its rights under the NPT for "peaceful use" nuclear technology.... then said "Fuck you!!!" and built a bomb).

The bigger issue is that the United States no longer has the national will to pursue its own self-interest, and its elites, like Obama, see self-flagellation and self-humiliation as a virtue. So the Iranians will get their bomb, and they will use it to drive oil prices up to $200 or $300 per barrel. And when YOU all are paying $12 for gasoline (on the days that you can get it) snarky left-wing creeps who run this country will shrug and say "Good. NOW you'll save the planet from global warming. Thanks Iran!" and "If you don't like it, buy a Chevy Volt and some solar panels."

mmercier| 2.22.12 @ 3:52AM

your post contains explination of the mechanism that led to the great war. ww1 children.

mmercier| 2.22.12 @ 2:13AM

high government officials publicly professing the desire to exterminate an entire nation is not quite in accord with what some consider rational calibrated fassion.

John786| 2.20.12 @ 7:22AM

W| 2.20.12 @ 8:08AM

We have been at war with Iran since 1979 when they held 300 Americans as hostages for close to one year. Since then they have supported Hezbollah and other terrorrists. Worse, it provided the bombs used in the roadside attacks that wounded and killed Americans in Iraq.

albert constantine jr| 2.20.12 @ 11:24AM

Another way to say it would be that Iran has been at war with us since 1979, in the manner you correctly identify.

W| 2.20.12 @ 12:24PM

You are more accurate. We have been at war, but Iran has been playing offense. We did supply Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war, but other than that we have just taken casualties without inflicting any, especially during the Sunni-Shite civil war in Iraq after our 2003 invasion.

mmercier| 2.22.12 @ 2:23AM

we supplied both sides in the Iran Iraq war. w knew iraq and Iran had chem/bio units that were deployed and deployable.

we made thoseweapons, and delivered them to... places.

we hoped both sides would lose.

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 12:44PM

So pretty much perpetual war. Just the way you NeoCon Chickenhawks like it.

W| 2.20.12 @ 12:59PM

You are right, Hobbes, it is all the fault of the USA. We just loved having our citizens taken hostage for a year. Would you have a different opinion if you or a family member had been a hostage? Probably not, you would have viewed it as being a "Guest of the Ayaltollah." Idiot.

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 5:10PM

Our citizens were taken hostage because we were propping up an evil dictator in Iran, the Shah, who had tormented the Iranians for decades. Read a book before you spout your racist nonsense. Shah of Shahs is a good place to start.

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 5:36PM

Anyone who denies that the era of Islamic terror started with the CIA's coup in Iran in 1953 -- on behalf of M16 because Iran was nationalizing British Petroleum's oil reserves -- is just plain ignorant. Anyone who has read two or three books on Iran has known this for decades. You commentators need to read a book and quite commenting till you know what you are talking about.

http://www.amazon.com/All-Shah.....t_ep_dpt_1

W| 2.20.12 @ 6:04PM

Right Hobbes, it is always the fault of the USA when Muslim terrorrists attack us. And you always have some "book" written by some like minded idiot like you to blame the USA.

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 9:06PM

You're right, W. Books suck. They are too hard.

W| 2.21.12 @ 10:12AM

Not all books, Hobbes, just your anti american, lefty slanted books. Why aren't you using your usual names such as Purp or Purpleguy?

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 9:08PM

Kapuscinski is an idiot? Wow, you are the first and only person to say that.

albert constantine jr| 2.20.12 @ 1:16PM

Hobbes, did I miss seeing you in the line at the AFEES Center where I presented myself for military service in 1980, shortly after the Iranians seized the US Embassy?

SmokeCamels| 2.20.12 @ 2:01PM

Al, when somebody use the words "NeoCon or chickenhawk" they usually avoid recruiting centers, they leave the serious stuff to somebody else.

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 5:11PM

Fortunately for you Reagan wasn't a NeoCon chickenhawk and kept us out of war for a decade.

albert constantine jr| 2.20.12 @ 6:24PM

From your response, I guess that you weren’t there, so I’m not sure how you feel qualified to label anyone “chickenhawk”.

As far as that kept us out of war stuff, I loved serving while RWR was President, but 241 of my colleagues crushed as a result of a truck bomb detonated by Islamic Jihad, an Iranian Proxy, disagree that this period was completely conflict-free (as likely do those killed or wounded in Grenada, Honduras, Korea or other places where we were involved that were Cold War-related, instead of a result of Iranian hostilities). Likewise, while those I helped bury in 1991 were not a result of Iranian action, but another player from the Axis of Evil, I’m not sure I would characterize their concurrent period of service as free of hazard.

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 9:15PM

Right, and Reagan brought the American troops home immediately after the bombing in Beirut! My point exactly!!!! Smartest thing we ever did. Got them the hell out of the middle east.

albert constantine jr.| 2.20.12 @ 11:47PM

Go back and check again. Our troops didn’t come home immediately, and we didn’t leave the Middle East. We did present ourselves as less convenient targets, and put fewer ground troops in harm’s way. I am sure Khadafy wishes we weren’t there in 1986, and the Iranians got brushed back again in 1988 (Oil platforms, re-flagged tankers, etc.). But to think RWR disengaged from the Middle East is to ignore what actually took place.
You can make a meritorious case for Middle Eastern disengagement. You can register as a lobbyist or agent for Iran, and argue their point of view like Axis Sally, Tokyo Rose or Ezra Pound once did for Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy or Imperial Japan. But to suggest that Ronald Reagan got the hell out of te Middle East is to be ignorant of history.

Trish| 2.20.12 @ 11:07PM

Yes, and he coined 'peace through strength'.

Hobbes| 2.21.12 @ 11:10AM

I did check again. The entire peace keeping mission was abandoned within a year of the bombing. Then, with the Bushes, we were back in business. Across the Middle East in the last decade, we lost 6,000 soldiers and spent hundreds of billions of dollars. Yet we have never been more disliked, more reviled, more hated in that part of the world.

albert constantine jr| 2.21.12 @ 12:55PM

Immediately now means within a year? And the Beirut peacekeeping mission was not our only middle east mission, as I previously noted (Libya, Persian Gulf, etc.).

Were we hated in "that part of the world" when Barbary pirates seized our ships and sailors at the turn of the 19th century, or did they do that out of love?

mmercier| 2.22.12 @ 3:05AM

war is the nature of man. just like eating and sex and beer and makeup for the females.

been going on for a bit.

Occam's Tool| 2.20.12 @ 6:00PM

John786: you are not trustworthy around children. You are an antisemitic scumbag.

Dr. John| 2.20.12 @ 8:24AM

Here's a compilation of some of Iran's terror activity against the U.S., Israel, and others since 1979--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I....._terrorism

Al Adab| 2.20.12 @ 8:37AM

Here is an issue which has festered in the international scene for a decade now, not counting the reference W makes to the embassy hostage matter. Like N. Korea this government has ignored the threat far too long. If Clinton had acted in NK we would not today have the situation we do there. Bush and now the current administration have pushed Irans program under the rug at our peril. Now we are faced with a decision and a threat that should have been ended years ago. Is not the old saying, " A stitch in time saves nine?"

Early action saves lives, procrastination harms everyone Iranian as well. It would be much better if my friend John were correct, but we have no reason to trust the motives of this current Iranian regime. Tyrants seek their own power and often destroy for the glory of it. We err in expecting such people to act rationally.

Melvin| 2.20.12 @ 8:59AM

Taking action like this requires decisive leadership, along with conviction to go against what the Progressives like to describe as, "Consensus. "
Western leaders nowadays seem to have an aversion of taking on a, "Thug Regime," who has openly admitted it's wish for the destruction of Israel.
I remember reading in one book, how the Jews use to read their morning newspapers over coffee and make the comments about that little crazy Austrian. Come to think about it Ahmadinejad wasn't much taller that Adolph Hitler.

VBMax| 2.20.12 @ 8:44AM

So, we are debating the rationality of a regime that tortures and murders its own citizens and also threatens to wipe out 2 of the biggest military powers on the planet?

Von Mises Jr.| 2.20.12 @ 8:59AM

The statist cabal in Washington DC does not view the Iranians as their primary enemy. They view capitalism as their foe, and they have their sites set on the TEA Party, social and fiscal conservatives, and Americans for Prosperity. The mullahs are their current comrades in arms.
Andrew McCarthy in "The Grand Jihad" - How Islam and the Left Sabatoge America, makes clear the pact between Theocratic and our Socialist Totalitarians that have decided that they will sort it out after they destroy the capitalist and Constitutional elements in our world.
The Israeli government is congruent with the philosophy of conservatives for the most part, where they actually have one-million Arabs living in Israel with liberty and religious freedom. Isreal is a philosophical threat to the Theocracies of the Middle East, as well as the Socialist Democrats in the West.

Say Baptist| 2.20.12 @ 9:45AM

Adolph Hitler wanted to torch Paris when Germany was forced to withdraw from France. He later wished to destroy Germany as being unworthy of him. Fortunately his henchmen bailed out. Hussein was fooled by his scientists who told him they were building a bomb when they weren't. If Iran gets the bomb it's not clear (given their ideology) that cool heads will prevail

Joey S.| 2.20.12 @ 11:26AM

If Iran won't attack Israel or the U.S.; then we will sanction, harass, and insult them until they do. By he11 we're going to have a war, otherwise the American people will be too concerned with all the problems that gubamint is causing at home!

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 12:47PM

By all means, distract the sheeple with another war. We need two or three at a time.

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 2:04PM

Besides, what's wrong with those Iranians anyway? They just happen to have an irrational hatred for jews and christians, just like our current administration.

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 5:14PM

Okay, I did not write the above comment attributed to me. Some scumbag is using my name to comment.

Occam's Tool| 2.20.12 @ 6:02PM

Of course, Hobbes: you have the irrational hatred for Jews. But, I never pretend to be someone else, Hobbes. You are a jihadist catamite. You live for servicing terrorists.

Hobbes| 2.20.12 @ 9:19PM

Yeah yeah, anyone who opposes endless wars to spread democracy to the middle east is a jew-hater, yadda yadda yadda. Toss out the old racism charge, you and Jesse Jackson, when your cannot defeat someone in an intellectual debate. It's much easier, especially when you are a cowardly Chickenhawk.

albert constantine jr| 2.20.12 @ 6:26PM

Hobbes;
I actually thought for three or four hours there might be something we agree on. Thanks for clarifying.

mmercier| 2.22.12 @ 3:16AM

the presence of myriad peoples on myriad points in this ether is not a distraction.
no one wants war. it is a necessity.

years back, no one cared until the first airbursts hit their town.

tsd| 2.20.12 @ 11:27AM

The Iranian's are classic 3 dimensional liars. Most in the west can barley understand simple lies, if you want to believe them at they're word you may want to focus on the "we will kill or enslave all infidels". If you are a non Muslim or a non Arab they have already promised to treat you like the scum you are. If you want to believe they will not make or use a nuclear weapon you are a delusional fool that cannot be helped.

Red Phillips| 2.21.12 @ 6:38PM

"If you are ... a non Arab they have already promised to treat you like the scum you are."

tsd, please tell me you didn't just write that? The Iranians ARE non-Arabs. Iranians are Persians and are very self aware of that fact. Call an Iranian an Arab to his face and you're liable to get punched in the mouth.

Kingofthenet| 2.20.12 @ 11:31AM

Wow the Chickenhawks and Israel 1sters are DESPERATE to Crater this economic recovery and send us into a depression. Let Israel take care of this by herself and when she fails, Iran can deal with her, Israel can than deal with Iran, and the problems in the Middle East will solve themselves.

tsd| 2.20.12 @ 11:57AM

Economic recovery.... we are just spending borrowed money that to a fool looks like recovery. We will have a recovery when we are actually earning more than our government is spending. 15 trillion in debt and about 85 trillion in unfunded liability and growing. If you think we are in recovery please share the indicators so we can all have a good laugh.... must be nice to ride happy on the crazy bus!!

Occam's Tool| 2.20.12 @ 6:03PM

It is the US which keeps interfering with Israel taking care of this, King, and your President.

Bobloblaw| 2.20.12 @ 8:18PM

economic recovery based on the fed printing money. Even Ron Paul knows this isnt a real recovery

Anthony| 2.20.12 @ 11:44AM

I wish we could find and hang those secret leakers in the State Dept and the Pentagon who, during Bush's last year in office, leaked their phony Intelligence Estimates, that Iran had no nuclear weapon capacity?
Remember how they were leaked at a most crucial time, in order to insure Bush would take no action against Iran?
And now, these enemies within our government have an ally in the White House.

cicero| 2.20.12 @ 1:25PM

Let's review the geography, and then apply it to the politics. Iran has fixed everybody on the nuclear weapon idea. In the meanwhile, they have built a pretty massive conventional land army. To the east, they have Afghanistan, which will be free of American interference (and defense) in about one and a half years. Beyond that lies Pakistan, who will allign with them in a heartbeat. To the west, they have Iraq, which, if you haven't noticed, is heating up again, and is looking a lot like the opening stages of an Iranian financed civil war, that will end in Iranian dominance. To the west of that is Syria, who is already dominated and supported by Iran. Without launching nuclear weapons, Iroan is now in a position to overrun everything from the Indus River in the east, to the borders of the shrunken Russian homeland. The Arab countries to the west, the old Magreb, will quickly fall in line, leaving Isreal completely isolated and As long as no nuclear weapons are involved, the west will do nothing. The Caliphate will have been established. From there, the jump off to the soft underbelly of Europe is easy.
As always, and as was evident duing the last century, the civilized mations will wait until a world wide conflict is enevitable, and the cost in blood and treasure will be tremendous. Only this time, there will be nobody holding the gate closed until we get there. Europe will fall with a wimper, and Britain will watch, thendie from cancer.
The Iranians will be stopped in the east by India (for a while), and to the northeast by China. The western hemisphere has its own maniacs who will keep us busy for a while. We will not intervene, as we will keep negotiating our allies demise, and waiting for our own from within, and from within this hemisphere. We are not weak enough yet to be taken on, but our enemies are patient.

Dr. John| 2.20.12 @ 3:58PM

I think Hornik is saying Iran is "not rational" by Western standards, i.e., the mere fact that the sanctions are harming its economy will not divert it from its course. Yes, from Iran's view it can be "rational" to create a violent conflagration so as to usher in the Mahdi, but that is NOT what Dempsey means when he calls Iran rational.

Leveut| 2.20.12 @ 3:42PM

"But is it rational to view Iran as rational? Steadily mounting evidence says no."

Hornik's comment is irrational.

Hornik is looking at Iran from Hornik's viewpoint, from Hornik's religious views, from Hornik's culture, from Hornik's views on reason and logic as embodied in Hornik's world view.

The essence of this is: because Iran doesn't act as Hornik would act, Iran is irrational.

This is not only narcissistic and self-centered, it is irrational.

From Iran's viewpoint, from Iran's religious views, from Iran's culture, from Iran's views on reason and logic as embodied in Iran's world view, Iran is acting perfectly logically and rationally.

A major reason US and European policy towards Iran on nukes and everything else has been ineffective at best, is because "The West" view Iran as Hornik does from Hornik's viewpoint and does not comprehend, much less analyze, Iran's acts from Iran's viewpoint.

Dr. John| 2.20.12 @ 3:59PM

Drunken Sailor| 2.20.12 @ 4:04PM

I see, so when dealing with a schizoprenic, I should view it from their viewpoint and treat them accordingly instead of taking appropriate measures to ensure my safety. Got it. (Sarcasm Off)

VBMax| 2.20.12 @ 5:55PM

So, if Iran were to reform itself and give its citizens the freedoms we take for granted in the
West and engage the West and Israel via nonviolent coexistence, that would be irrational.
Yeah, makes sense.

Con Chef (NB)| 2.20.12 @ 4:14PM

"If he yields it from fear, it is for the purpose of avoiding a war, and he will rarely escape from that; for he to whom he has from cowardice conceeded the one thing will not be satisfied, but will want to take other things from him, and his arrogance is increased as his esteem for the Prince is lessened."...Machiavelli, The Discourses

"It would be the greatest mistake, certainly, to think that concessions mean peace. Nothing of the kind. Concessions are nothing but a new form of war."...Lenin

"Beware lest in your anxiety to avoid war you obtain a master."...Demosthenes

Too bad none of these peacenik idiot pacificts & Jew haters posting their bile here understand that it ain't just Jews that Jack's buddies in Iran want to rid the world of. And the words of the heroes & villians above are proof positive that some things never change. Like the fact that there are lethally stupid people who's anti Semitic prejudices blind them to the threat posed by the very same crew who wants to kill the Jews they hate so badly.

Drunken Sailor| 2.20.12 @ 4:27PM

And some lovely pears of wisdom and rationality by I'madinnerjacket himself.

" “Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury,”

“Iran is ready to transfer nuclear know-how to the Islamic countries due to their need.”

"The Zionist regime's establishment was based on numerous deceptions and lies and one of the biggest lies was the Holocaust.

"The question is, why don't we allow this subject (the Holocaust) to be examined further... It is incorrect to force only one view on the rest of the world.

"How come when it comes to the subject of the Holocaust there is so much sensitivity?"

"We will witness the dismantling of the corrupt regime (Israel) in the very near future."

"With God's help, the countdown button for the destruction of the Zionist regime has been pushed by the hands of the children of Lebanon and Palestine . . . By God's will, we will witness the destruction of this regime in the near future."

Oh yeah, he's a rational one all right. Kind of reminds me of Jack.

Con Chef (NB)| 2.20.12 @ 6:17PM

Jack is a good little dhimmi. He'll pay his jizya tax & LIKE it.

Trish| 2.20.12 @ 8:25PM

It ain't the Jews Con. Its the infidel. 'First they came for the....." The London bombings were not against the Jews but the infidel. I was evacuated from the dear peace loving homegrowns' second attempt to bomb the tube on Jl 21, 2005. Thanks be to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that the explosives just happened to be damp! Thank you Jesus!

Occam's Tool| 2.20.12 @ 6:05PM

Well, as the greatest Jewish Superhero of all time put it once, "It's Clobbering Time!" (Yes, Ben Grimm is Jewish, and you can look it up.)

Alan| 2.20.12 @ 10:55PM

Actually it was the
Hebrew Hammer!

Ryan| 2.21.12 @ 9:01AM

Here's one for ya - Superman's creators were Jewish.

Dimitry Aleksandrovich| 2.20.12 @ 6:07PM

The UK's Sky News is the Faux...I mean Fox News of the UK both are run by Murdoch.

The Shia Iran and Sunni Wahhabist Al Qaeda are not working together. They are enemies. Right now Al Qaeda is doing our dirty work in Syria in an attempt to overthrow Iran's Shia Alawite ally Assad in Damascus. Iran and Al Qaeda are mortal enemies and the chance of them fighting together is about the same chance of Oliver Cromwell coming back from the dead and having tea and a civil conversation with Roman Catholic Irish nationalists. Al Qaeda and their Saudi backed Wahhabist types are the arch enemy of the Shia Islamic Republic of Iran. They have butchered scores of Shia pilgrims heading for Shia holy sites in Karbala, Iraq and are at war with Iran in the Sunni south of the nation in the form of Jundullah a Sunni Islamist terrorist whom McCain wants to fund.

Bobloblaw| 2.20.12 @ 8:20PM

Iran is helping the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Trish| 2.20.12 @ 8:29PM

Muslims will align together when needed. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Hobbes| 2.21.12 @ 11:11AM

Trish, I work with several Muslim doctors. You want to come over and kill them?

Trish| 2.21.12 @ 4:36PM

Logics 101 should make me want to kill you instead. But you're brain dead already. You just can't realize it, that's why we forgive you.

Dmitry Aleksandrovich| 2.23.12 @ 1:02AM

The Taliban butchered 12 Iranian diplomats after they captured Mazaresharif from the Northern Alliance in the late 90's (before 9/11). Why did they kill the Iranians? Because they were Shia. What did Iran do in response. They put 250,000 troops on the border with Afghanistan and readied them for an invasion. The invasion never came but to this day Iran backs the Northern Alliance (who are our allies as well) against the Sunni Wahhabist Taliban. Iran supporting the Taliban sounds like propaganda to me. Just like these claims that Iran is supporting Al Qaeda. The Shia and Sunni have been mortal enemies since the killings of Hassan and Hussein nearly 1400 years ago.

Gary| 2.20.12 @ 9:09PM

So? This means the Iranians love Israel and can be trusted? You a big fan of Syria too?

Dmitry Aleksandrovich| 2.23.12 @ 1:04AM

I respect Assad. He gave refuge to over a million Iraqi Christians in the wake of our invasion and toppling of Saddam Hussein. He took in the very Christians who the U.S. turned their backs on when they were being persecuted in post-Saddam Iraq, during our occupation. Apparently we were more concerned with securing the oil pipelines to care about the fate of Iraqi Christians who had become a target of Sunni Islamists and Kurds alike.

mmercier| 2.22.12 @ 3:58AM

the assumption that your enemy is divided within their ranks is a simple tactic exhibited by a clever opponent.

mmercier| 2.22.12 @ 4:10AM

creation of perception. deriving misperception in order to assume predictive behaviour of opposing command decision.

it is late.

Gary| 2.20.12 @ 9:07PM

What planet does Dempsey live on? Iran just announced more centrifuges to generate electricity? Come on man!!! Iran will get nukes, period, if they are not stopped. The truth is Obama and his pacifist cronies think we can "contain" a "rational" nuclear Iran. Dream on. I guess this bunch really doesn't care if Israel gets sent to Kingdom Come. Iran without nukes is backing terror, sabotage, unrest, you name it and we will be able to deal with them AFTER they get nukes? This bunch isn't living in the real world, Iran ain't the USSR of the Cold War. It is a rogue terrorist state and cannot be trusted to act "rationally."

Red Phillips| 2.21.12 @ 6:50PM

The Iran as martyr state meme is a myth.

http://www.theamericanconserva.....tate-myth/

If the Iran as martyr state narrative is false, then the whole case for preventive war (which is never justified according to Christian Just War Doctrine anyway) falls apart.

POST American| 2.22.12 @ 12:11AM

NO discussion of this latest CFR
capstone scripted and engineered
'CON---flicked' ---MUST--- do a
quality retake on the 'a--pock--'RA'-full'
Albert Pike---Mazzini letter.

In 1800's Pike, POPE of 'MAY-SIN-Re'
called for no less than 3 World Wars.
The first 2 to destroy, consolidate and
collectivize Europe.

The third to be a grand finale show down
among the mono-theisms.

Aside from the MASS EXTERMINATION
potential --such a conflict would, he thought.
finally disgrace and discredit ALL 3 thus
clearing the ground for the new 'world
religion' ---even now ready to go at the
Rockefeller 'Lucis Trust'.

BTW, Judaism/ Islam and Christianity
(--all long infiltrated mind you) unequivocally
condemn USURY.

An undeniable COMMON GROUND that's
NEVER put before us ---or even mention.

-------------------------------$$$$$$trange.