The American Spectator : The Real Sleeping Giant

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The Real Sleeping Giant

By Ross Kaminsky on 12.16.11 @ 6:08AM

A new Gallup poll suggests Obama’s class warfare is becoming a big loser for the left. (Updated.)

During the heady days of the 2009 protests against the “Porkulus” bill, Obamacare, and big government in general, many people spoke of the rise of the Tea Party movement as the result of Presidents Obama and Bush having “woken the sleeping giant” of pro-liberty America.

But that giant may turn out to be a pygmy when compared to what Barack Obama, Harry Reid, and Occupy Wall Street have awoken with their incessant and intensifying class warfare.

Americans who consider themselves Tea Partiers are a minority of the country, even if a significant and motivated one. The real majority, one which Democrats are foolishly antagonizing, are those of us who refuse to accept the left’s claims that Americans of one economic class are the enemy of those in another economic class.

A recent poll by Gallup shows that the efforts of Obama and the Occupiers may be backfiring against the beggar-thy-neighbor Alinskyite left.

To be clear, while the poll shows that “Americans’ views of their own position as ‘haves’ or ‘have nots’ have been remarkably stable,” the percentage of Americans who believe that the nation is divided along those lines has plunged since the last similar poll, done just prior to President Obama’s election in 2008.

During the Bush years, people were beginning to think that lower-income Americans were in a form of conflict with the elite, now called “the 1 percent,” or were perhaps even their victims. Those views became particularly intense during the depth of the 2008 financial crisis when politicians of both parties, parroted by media everywhere, blamed the real estate crash and ensuing stock market plunge on Wall Street bankers who fooled unsuspecting borrowers into buying houses they couldn’t afford and then securitized “toxic” derivatives and sold them to unsuspecting investors.

The mess was far more a failure of government than of markets, something which one might think would be difficult for the American people to learn, especially since politicians of both parties have a lot to answer for when it comes to pushing “affordable housing” aka “vote buying” on the nation.

But Barack Obama has given the nation a tremendous object lesson by posing the federal government as the solution to all problems — and then proving that it isn’t. When the president said that spending a trillion dollars of our children’s future earnings would keep unemployment below 8 percent only to see us spend the last two and a half years with only three months below 9 percent unemployment — and none below 8.5 percent — the public begins to see the economic emperor as wearing no clothes.

Even if the voters don’t think about it explicitly, if the Obama administration’s claims about government fixing the economy are so obviously false, then just perhaps the other charges made about evil capitalists being the source of all evil may also be false. At least, they’re worth skepticism.

And thus the public has become skeptical.

The Occupy Wall Street movement has likewise had the opposite effect of what its anarcho-socialist hygiene-challenged spoiled middle-class kids intended. When you see “protesters” defecating on a police car or an American flag, instigating violence, and generally being incoherent, the ordinary American is likely to see those people as a greater threat than a bunch of villainized bankers could ever be. Again, when the messenger is so utterly without credibility, the internalized message among the public is likely to be the opposite of what the preachers of radicalism offer.

Among those 19 groups for which Gallup broke out the “haves” versus “have nots” responses, only one, those earning less than $30,000 per year, had a majority who put themselves in the latter category. Even the unemployed, non-whites, those without a college degree, and Democrats all have a majority who self-identify as “haves.”

While a majority of Americans believe that the nation is not divided along these lines, a majority of Democrats do buy into the class warfare rhetoric, with 58 percent saying we are split between “haves” and “have-nots.” However, even that is down three percent from 2008. Independent voters reject the class warfare concept with only 37 percent believing we’re divided, a stunning drop of 11 points from three years ago. Similarly, self-identified moderates are at 38 percent, down 13 percent. Not surprisingly, barely one quarter of Republicans (26 percent) and conservatives (27 percent) see class warfare as real.

Interestingly, while the numbers for Independents and moderates were nearly identical, as were Republicans and conservatives, there is a significant gap between Democrats and liberals, with the latter group showing a 66 percent majority believing in the “haves” versus “have-nots” divide, eight percent more than Democrats. While this might mean that there are liberal Independents adding to the number, a bigger take-away is likely that there is a fair number of slightly conservative Democrats, those we used to call Reagan Democrats, who might drift away from their party’s presidential nominee.

As if to reemphasize the point, another Gallup poll released Friday shows that “More Americans say it is important that the federal government enact policies that grow the economy and increase equality of opportunity than say the same about reducing the income and wealth gap between the rich and the poor.” Only 46 percent of poll respondents thought that government efforts to reduce income or wealth gaps between rich and poor were “extremely important” or “very important.” However, when it comes to increasing equality of opportunity, the number is 70 percent, and for “grow and expand the economy” the number jumps to 82 percent. Somewhere Thomas Jefferson is smiling; Karl Marx and Saul Alinsky not so much.

We are all Americans, all endowed with an unalienable right to the pursuit of happiness, and most of us with aspirations to the American Dream of upward economic mobility. When you hate your neighbor because of his success, you shred our national fabric. Barack Obama may want to go down that road, but most of the rest of the nation properly finds his intentional attempts to divide us somewhere between dubious and abhorrent.

As Gallup notes, “Americans as a whole are no more likely to see the country as divided into haves and have nots than at any time in the past two decades.” This is bad news for Barack Obama and other Democrats running for reelection in 2012. Their siren song of divide-and-conquer is falling flat on the ears of the majority of Americans. But the annoying political tinnitus is awakening the real sleeping giant — those Americans who recognize that our nation did not become great by thinking like V.I. Lenin, Che Guevara, or Chairman Mao.

About the Author

Ross Kaminsky is a self-employed trader and investor and is a senior fellow of the Heartland Institute. He is the host of The Ross Kaminsky Show on Denver’s NewsRadio 850 KOA at 11 AM on most Sundays. You can reach Ross by e-mail at rossputin(at)rossputin(dot)com.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (354) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Ken (Old Texican)| 12.16.11 @ 6:42AM

from your computer to God's e-mail que.

old white guy| 12.23.11 @ 6:55AM

the divide will become much greater. there are between 18 and 20 percent unemployed in the country. sooner or later they are going to get tired of the socialism that has caused this. unfortunately they will be lloking for more socialism. God help the u.s. because i think civil war may be the out come. barak the magic one is going to reap a terrible harvest.

Robbins Mitchell| 12.16.11 @ 6:49AM

There are 2 types of people...those who divide people into 2 types..and those who don't

Shamus| 12.16.11 @ 8:06AM

This is actually Godel's second incompleteness theorem posed in common parlance.

John Navratil| 12.16.11 @ 9:37AM

Shamus,

Not exactly, that postulation wasn't a conundrum. It truth or falseness can be determined.

Actually, there are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't. :)

Stammon| 12.16.11 @ 10:21AM

No, there are three kinds of people; Those that can do math, and those that can't.

Sarbo| 12.17.11 @ 5:33AM

Yep, there are three. The first two types - those who understand Zero and Infinity and those who understand only the numbers in between. Obama belongs to the third - he understands neither.

I only posted this comment, seeing the number of math comments here. Perhaps there is a fourth type, like Bill Gates. He understands both zeros and ones. It's not his fault, actually, since computers work on those tiny dudes called transistors. These have only two states of life (like Obama) - when they are switched off (zero) and when they are on (one). No one has yet managed to design transistors to work like the rheostat in your geyser - to switch off when the current passing through reaches a pre-set limit.

If computers could learn how to do this and escape the tyranny of a binary system, a whole new band of nerds could be born. Err ... not. We have enough nerds as it is. We don't need more, do we?

John Navratil| 12.17.11 @ 4:15PM

Sarbo,

This earliest computers were analog computers. An original use was for gunnery fire control systems. The problem with these machines was a lack of reprogrammability and the necessity for continuous recalibration. Adding another variable to the problem often meant a complete redesign of the system.

The "tyranny" of digital systems has reduced systemic errors in computation drastically. It is a complete understatement to say John Von Newmann's insights were invaluable.

The value of analog is a quick approximation of an answer, the advantage of digital is accuracy (all you other nerds can give me a break for oversimplification).

Wayne| 12.18.11 @ 8:19AM

There are 3 kind, one who thinks it understands infinity, one who knows it doesn't and one who doesn't understand the question.

KateS| 12.16.11 @ 11:14AM

John: Stammon doesn't get it...should you explain or let him figure it out.

John Navratil| 12.16.11 @ 11:33AM

KateS,

I think Stammon gets it ;)

AhiaGuy| 12.16.11 @ 8:43AM

Credit where credit is due: that was coined by an underappreciated humorist, movie actor & member of the Algonquin Round Table, Nathaniel Benchley.

Athanasius| 12.16.11 @ 11:15AM

Benchley got it from G.K. Chesterton

Paul McGrath| 12.16.11 @ 1:01PM

G. K. Chesterton got it from me, and I wasn't even alive yet.

irish19| 12.16.11 @ 2:43PM

Is he paying you royalties?

VBMax| 12.16.11 @ 8:50AM

And they are further defined as the "decent" and the "indecent".

al222| 12.16.11 @ 9:06AM

there are three types of people: the makers, the takers, and those who sit on the fence trying to decide which group works best for them. the 2012 election should spell out whether or not the makers remain a majority, or America becomes a shell of the nations it once was.

Buck Ofama| 12.16.11 @ 9:19AM

Wrong. There are 10 kinds of people:
those who understand binary and those who don't.

John Navratil| 12.16.11 @ 11:49AM

You beat me to it!

merlin| 12.18.11 @ 2:47AM

Now I get it.

1010 - 100

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 10:31AM

Karl Rove, Frank Luntz and the Republicans on one side and everyone else on the other - you're right!

Clint| 12.16.11 @ 8:38PM

I am so so proud of you Purpleboy

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 11:07PM

That's SuperBoy to you...

rhoetus| 12.16.11 @ 11:26AM

Rats! I was going to post that! ;-)

Deborah D | 12.16.11 @ 6:56AM

"...Barack Obama has given the nation a tremendous object lesson by posing the federal government as the solution to all problems -- and then proving that it isn't. " What an excellent observation. Americans who are paying attention fully recognize who Obama is and are ready to have him gone. He's such a drag on our country economically, spiritually and psychologically that I, for one, can't wait to be rid of him.

oldfart| 12.16.11 @ 8:29AM

How dare you say the Pretender In Chief if wearing no cloths. I will have to go into the corner, get my blankie and suck my thumb, right after I poop on the nearest police car. And now I hear that Christopher Hitches is dead!!! Who is going to think for me?

For those that don’t get it – that is sarcasm.

richard ryan| 12.16.11 @ 8:47AM

"..spending a trillion dollars of our children's future earnings.." Now that's the way our eventual nominee needs to frame the spending/debt issue.

joanne| 12.16.11 @ 9:57AM

I am in total agreement. This inept wanna be king has only brought us down economnically, and thru class warfare.
I cannot stand his face.

russel| 12.16.11 @ 10:31AM

I wanna do more than not stand his face , Jo . This article is mildly encouraging in that a skeptical voter is better than an idiot who'd send this country into anarchy . The read also says that just because many were fooled ( hence mildly stupid ) , they learned and are not going to make the same mistake twice . Let us pray .

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 12:28PM

I have a dream! I have, a dream!

Only my dream is to see Obama in civvies, AFTER he's tossed out of office, with a Secret Service detail at LAX.

And me ... with my FREE SPEECH (and BOOMING voice!)....

PJ| 12.17.11 @ 8:31AM

My dream is to see Obama & Co go to jail.

Quiche Lorraine| 12.17.11 @ 10:35PM

Or deported...whatever works best :)

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 10:32AM

Why spiritually and psychologically?

Mimi| 12.16.11 @ 7:05AM

For over 200 years America has lived in a CLASS-LESS, NO CASTE Society with Liberty for all.
Now we have to change that ?....To get OBAMA elected? .....Now all of a sudden in 2011 we are gonna have CLASS WARFARE? Have the Democrats gone CRAZY ? This they want to sell? Thank GOD for POLLS that measure these things.....Another Dem OOPS!
Thank God for the United States of America...Freedom, and the land of opportunity for ALL. This President... has landed from some long ago century...from some far-away land where Kings and Queens ruled the day!

Rob Roy| 12.16.11 @ 7:14AM

He acts like he is a king. He is never wrong about anything and no one should question him. With executive orders and fiat, he by-passes the Constitution to rule the country rather than govern. I hope the countryt is not stupid enough to re-elect him or we are through as we have known our country.

chuck| 12.16.11 @ 8:50AM

One of his minions did say that he would be ready to "rule from day one".

What did you expect?

VonMisesJr| 12.16.11 @ 7:34AM

Right on Mimi. That is exactly when this old and tired strategy originated and it resulted in the French Revolution. Burke explained in "Reflections" how the Enlightenment Philosophers (today's professors and MSM) partnered with the Nobles (Kerry, Bush, Kennedy, Pelosi) against the bourgeoisie (SMB and professionals) after the Industrial Revolution in an attempt to re-establish serfdom.

Our "best and brightest" may as well be reciting the "Iliad" or the "Odyssey." It's old, boring and we don't believe it anymore. "Zeus" Obama has spoken, and the people laugh. He is a charictature of Homer. But until I see his transcripts, I can only assume he is a poor representation.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 10:05AM

did you ever study u s history ? we have always had class divides . google the robber baron era tell us what you find . also look the great depression of the 1930s. you have to stop watching fox and do some research to get some perspective.

Jobe| 12.16.11 @ 11:35AM

I've done the research but it is quite apparent that you have not. If you had, you would know that government spending exacerbated the depression, extending it into WWII. In fact, if it had not been for WWII, it could have lasted into the '50s. Your icon, FDR, against the strongly worded advice from his Secretary of the Treasury, Henry Morganthau, continued to spend like a drunken sailor. Perhaps he also failed to do some "research" as you recommend.

Occam's Tool| 12.18.11 @ 8:53PM

Jobe---absolutely correct. And Hoover raised taxes in the middle of a recession, creating the fertile field for the depression.

Keep taxes low, defense spending adequate to project forward as necessary, and regulation minimal. That's the secret to a good government.

Stan Redmond| 12.16.11 @ 7:35PM

Please, enlighten us as you are obviously steeped in US history outside of an elementary textbook.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 10:33AM

You don't know your history very well, do you?

JungleCogs| 12.16.11 @ 10:53AM

Well said Purp; the Great Depression started as a simple recession and turned worse by a Democrat (Progressive) President. Today, history seems to be repeating....

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 11:38AM

stop listening to fox and do some research on hoover and fdr to find out whose policies got us into the great depression and whose helped to get us out. your not entitled to your own facts

John Navratil| 12.16.11 @ 12:02PM

pggyverdad,

Have you read "The Forgotten Man" by Amity Schlaes? If you think FDR got us out of the recession, you might find an thing or two to change your mind. For example, FDR set the price of gold from day to day according to his whim. He reduced the money supply to the point that localities were having to print their own scrip in order to conduct business. Those examples are picked simply to show what extraordinary power one man held over the economy.

Hoover did sign Smoot-Hawley which is often considered, as a principle cause of the Depression - economists consider it part of the problem, but not a direct cause. By the time FDR took office, recovery was under way but quickly stifled by the best and brightest who were consumed by the notion that a command economy could be more efficient than a more laissez faire economy.

VonMisesJr| 12.16.11 @ 12:13PM

Dear John,
Here is a YouTube video citing the depression era government officials and great minds such as Dr. Sowell and Dr. Walter E. Williams on the matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWAgt_YCNuw

Purp and piggyverdad would probably not understand, and if they did, they would reject the truth. Religious fanatacism is like that. So perhaps we should not feed the trolls?
VMJr.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 12:41PM

So you are a victim of history rewrite - that's your problem. Can you explain why FDR was beloved by so many for so long? He is considered the 2nd greatest President after Abraham Lincoln. Why do you believe the right-wing historical spin doctors, if the people who lived the Great Depression have told us over and over again what he did for them? And, why Herbert Hoover is always remembered as the the President that caused the Great Depression? Do you really believe that current day historipropagandists know what they are talking about?
We've just experienced 30 years of "free market" reduction in taxes, reduction in regulations, government meddling by the Neoconista Republicants - and look where we are. The only reason we don't have a better economy is the Republicans in Congress have too much power and stopped the Democrats from doing all that was necessary. Nearly shut the government down 3 times and again today? What incompetent boobs the Republicants are. THIS is what you call living well? They are destroying America's institutions, it's defense, and it's government - all to win, win, win at all costs. It's sickening. Mitch McConnell is so confident and so jaded that he even professed "Our number one goal is do make President Obama a one term President".. Really? Not "creating jobs is #1" or "keeping America strong is #1" or even " protecting the American people is #1" .... NO, it's to win the war against President Obama - that's a leader? Are we playing capture the flag or King of the Hill? How stupid, ignorant or evil all Republicants are that ascribe to that strategy while America burns.

RobLACa| 12.16.11 @ 4:11PM

"How stupid, ignorant or evil all Republicants are that ascribe to that strategy while America burns."

The evil liars who fiends for power and tax payer dollars just love to besmirch, ask loaded questions and make false accusations about those they can never measure up to.

After having well over 700 of their cohorts kicked to the curb because they are unworthy of running this Country or holding positions of power at any level of Government, expect the criminal organization of democrats to say anything and do whatever it takes to divide and deceive the American people.

Democrats do not exist to serve the public, they exist and survive off the the backs of the American tax payers and those they have dumbed down and made dependent on Government handouts.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 4:30PM

rob the flies are circling around this load you served up. there are always freeloaders but most americans want a decent job to support themselves. you have to stop watching fox . you need to get another perspective.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 4:59PM

Remember Chuckles, the same thing happened to your guys in the 30's, the 70's, and 2 years ago ... so I'd treat the other side a little nicer if I were you, 'cause they will be back and will remember. Government is of, for, and by the people and serves only the people. It has been b*dized by the Republicant party ever since Reagan and especially with hyperdivider Gingrich. So, if you don't like the government right now, "Blame Yo'self", you elected the morons that created the "K" Street Lobby mess and the Super contractor, no bid contractors, and the Jack Abramoffs, enlisted torture and threw 4 Trillion dollars away on the Iraq war (when all is totaled up). When the inmates run the asylum, no wonder you don't like the asylum because it looks crazy.

Todd S| 12.16.11 @ 4:47PM

Purp has just changed his name from the troll purple guy and I am fairly certain he is a paid Soros troll, have seen the same name on other sites reciting the liberal socialist talking points. Don't waste your time trying to reason with him, he is a loser troll.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 5:01PM

If you cannot argue a point, then, of course, ignore anyone that doesn't agree with your little belief system. It's okay, I understand, you lack the intellectual power to carry on an argument with a center left powerhouse. It's okay Chuckles, go play with your minions and be safer.

Occam's Tool| 12.18.11 @ 8:54PM

FDR was a great War President. He also, through smoke and mirrors, may have prevented our decline into a fascist state during the 1930s. One thing he did not do, however, was get us out of the Great Depression.

Winston Smith| 12.23.11 @ 10:25AM

Two things to consider:

1) History is (re)written by the victors.

So much more important now that a "fact" shown on a web page can be altered without my knowing it. I can reference a weblink that today supports my statements but tomorrow negates them. 1984 all over again :)

I'm not arguing for or against your point re: rewrite - just putting a statement out here for other readers to ponder.

2) The US Constitution explicitly states that the fed govt is to financially support the military.

The role of President is to be head of military, not to be the overall "fixit man" of the financial and social classes. That is the job of the free market and shouldn't be tampered with by soiling the market with govt-printed (aka fake) money and regulations to try to "level the playing field" for participants.

That's why any govt attempt to correct or manage social interaction or financial markets (outside of illegal actions) will always fail in the long run. Maybe not in a single generation but certainly after two or three. We're seeing the cumulative effect of two generations' worth of this now with concepts introduced in the early part of last century.

John Navratil| 12.16.11 @ 12:43PM

VonMisesJr,

Good video. As my brother quips "History has been ripped from today's headlines."

I'll try to avoid feeding the trolls. As I note below, I expect pggyverdad to be a flash in the pan. Purp or PurpleGuy just makes it up as he goes along. It's hard not to skewer him, but I'll try.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 12:53PM

You simply can't counter my arguments, I understand, it's okay to give up. It happens to the best of you.

John Navratil| 12.16.11 @ 2:49PM

Purp,

I don't give a damn about your opinions. When you state facts supporting your position, I respond with a factual rebuttal. I notice you haven't responded to any of my challenges to your factual adequacy yesterday.

Did you give up? It must be tough.

W| 12.17.11 @ 3:02PM

John
Last week the Purp said he would post the 300 accomplishments of Obama. We are still waiting for this list. Maybe purp is learning how to count to 300. Don't accept any facts he states.

Purp| 12.17.11 @ 6:31PM

Go look them up yourself, lazy :
http://www.politifact.com/trut...../subjects/

John Navratil| 12.17.11 @ 7:19PM

Purp,

This is a joke, right? You cite the editorial board of the St. Petersburg Times?

Just a few of the promises kept are:

"Establish a credit card bill of rights"
"Promote more pre-school education"
"Strengthen federal environmental justice programs"
"Establish an Energy Partnership for the Americas"
"Support repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA)"

to name but a few.

When you wish to make a point, asking someone to make it for you isn't much of an argument.

Do the math...
Connect the dots...
Do your homework...

I'm glad no one of paying you for this drivel. Actually, I hope some fool IS paying for this drivel.

idalily| 12.19.11 @ 4:05PM

Speaking of giving up, why is it morally acceptable to you that the wealthy pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than everybody else?

Since still refuse to answer that question every time I ask it, YOU are the one who can't counter arguments, Purp. Deflection and insult are all you've got, as you repeatedly demonstrate.

VonMisesJr| 12.16.11 @ 1:07PM

Merry Christmas John. I wonder what MoveOn pays an hour for blather? Whatever it is, it is too much. But let them spend, they only reinforce the impression the average American has of OWS and the left.

Purp| 12.17.11 @ 6:32PM

Nobody pays me for this ... it's my burden, like Frodo and the Ring of Power.

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 12:32PM

Please don't forget WITH EVERY POST referencing the Depression:

HOOVER hiked Federal Spending over 50% over his term, and engaged public works (Hoover Dam) to fight the downturn -- JUST LIKE OBAMA

OBAMA = HOOVER

And a second term for Obama?

FDR -- who PROLONGED THE DOWNTURN FOR A DECADE.

Who solved it? Congress, with MASSIVE CUTS following WWII -- giving us MASSIVE GROWTH.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 12:50PM

That's idiotic. The Depression ended because GOVERNMENT SPENDING went through the roof because of WWII - and even then it took until 1943 to really be out of it. The Massive Growth after WWII occurred because we were the Arsenal of Democracy that changed over to peacetime production and the ONLY industrial country that wasn't bombed to smithereens by the war. We were the only country that could produce goods for the world in quantity. Basically, competition was zero for a good number years after the war. We had the free market almost to ourselves. Instrumental in kick starting European industry was the Marshall Plan - remember that?
So Bush = Hoover and Obama = FDR but without the massive Democratic majorities that FDR had. Had the Great Depression II started 2 years earlier, Obama would have had a much better majority in Congress.
BTW - the American people still blame GW Bush, the Republicants, and then Obama, in that order, for the economic mess we're in. So, good luck in 2012, where are the jobs you promised Mr Boner?

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 4:34PM

i guess ww ll and its massive spending and full empolyment had nothing to do with growth ? i hpoe you dont mind but iam calling my neighbors over to see your post . they wont believe me.

VonMisesJr| 12.16.11 @ 6:57PM

piggy-whatever,
Is this the hpoe and cahnge you have been waiting four?

MikeG| 12.16.11 @ 10:26PM

Are you and purp sharing a keyboard?

MikeG| 12.16.11 @ 10:26PM

pggyverdad, you and the purp sharing a keyboard

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 11:08PM

No, why did you want to get in the middle ?

MikeG| 12.16.11 @ 11:40PM

Not my style, Purp, but keep asking around there may be other lefty trolls like you interested.

Purp| 12.17.11 @ 9:49AM

you seem to be the only one that wants a sandwich.... pitcher or catcher?

MikeG| 12.17.11 @ 3:04PM

Purpie, you are very familiar with the terminology. Sounds like you are the sissy catcher, correct?

Purp| 12.17.11 @ 6:33PM

Takes one to know one, huh, Sunshine?

VonMisesJr| 12.16.11 @ 11:35AM

Hey Purp. What are you doing up so early?

Mike Hawk| 12.16.11 @ 7:14AM

Ross, correction for you. Tea Party Patriots are those of us who refuse to accept the left's claims that Americans of one economic class are the enemy of those in another economic class. It is part and parcel of the whole package. That wasn't a minority of 1.3 MM (plus) that came from every state (57 if one estimate is correct) on 9/12/09.

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 12:35PM

Around 20% identify strongly with the "Tea Party," 40% support the goals with the name, and 60% support the goals decoupled from the name.

The MSM hacks have been somewhat successful besmirching the groups, but not the ideas.

My suggestion: A NEW MOVEMENT -- the CONSTITUTION MOVEMENT.

Just switch the labels and watch Obama's investment in libel evaporate -- the kind of voters who believe the MSM spin are exactly those who would be fooled by a name change....

Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 12.16.11 @ 7:33AM

Most Democrats, and all Liberals, are just whiners, complainers, and big pain in the asses!! They bring absolutely nothing to the table in way of real solutions, except of course to raise taxes on the very People who create jobs, and already pay most of the taxes. They're a one trick pony Party, and that trick is old, and very tired!! The Haves VS. the Have Nots is the most Un-American strategy to run on, because most Americans, even if they don't have a lot, like myself, don't think of themselves as the Have Nots, but that won't stop the Democratic Party from pursuing this game plan. I'm still in search of my "Haves", and if you tell me I'm a Have Not, you'll steal my dream of becoming the Haves from me, and how dare anybody steal the American dream from people who are in search of it. But then again, I present you the Democratic Party, the Party of Slavery, the Party of Death, the Party of Race Baiting, the Party of Tax and Spend, and the Party of Stealing the American Dream from Dreamers. Why do we keep inviting these Schmucks to the party?

Mimi| 12.16.11 @ 7:50AM

The Dems are either gonna give up their UN-AMERICAN ways or hit the DUST!
This time they bet on the WRONG horse and if TRUTH be told....They KNOW IT!

scotchieguy| 12.16.11 @ 1:34PM

But the libs would say he is too conservative, that he is just another Bush.

TrueBlue| 12.16.11 @ 6:39PM

I actually know people in Seattle that believe Obama has been too conservative... it's kind of sad and rather scary at the same time.

Timothy L. Pennell| 12.16.11 @ 9:11AM

So. Triple L. How about that speech, the other day? I'll give him credit. Not everyone can stand in front of a crowd, and LIE through their teeth, and put THEMSELVES on a Pedestal, for the SUCCESS, of something that they fought tooth and nail, AGAINST, and that they tried to SABATOGE, every step of the way. You must have felt so Proud. Anyway.

So. Really. Is there anyone who can't wait for 4 More Years of THIS? I mean, besides Jeffery Immelt, Warren Buffet, and Alec Baldwin. Is there anyone who thinks that things will get BETTER, if we just give SAUL ALINSKY more time?

He won't Drill for Oil, and he won't Drill for Natural Gas. He won't allow Nuclear, and he's won't allow the Canadian Pipeline to be built. Add those all up, and how many JOBS are we talking about? A Million? (And it's not just Drilling Jobs, Purple, or Pubic, or Turd. Dumb*ss. Whatever your stupid name is. It's ALL of the Support jobs, as well.)

He fights like a DOG, to keep us on the DOLE. He puffs out his chest, as he DEMANDS more Unemployment Checks. And, he is just as Adamant about CRUSHING the Private Sector, in favour of his Union "Army".

1st Rule of Dictatorship: Keep your Army well paid, and they will take to the Streets, for you, when you give the order.

So, what do ya do, when ya got NOTHING? You do what any Cornered Animal would do. You lash out. You go on the Attack. You REVEAL yourself, for what you are.

He is on a Scorched Earth Trajectory, right now. He is CASTRO, PERON, and CHAVEZ, pedal to the metal. He's gonna do the only thing he knows how to do. He's gonna ORGANIZE the Lowest Common Denominator, in to the Streets. He's gonna LIE, CHEAT, and STEAL. He's not gonna Offer any Solutions to any problems. He's gonna Blame everybody else, for HIS last 3 Years.

American Cities will be put to the TORCH, come next Summer. You can count on it. He was the one they'd been waiting for. And he will not go QUIETLY in to the night. He will Marshal his forces for ONE LAST STAND, as those like him, always do. And it will NOT be pretty.

It never is.

Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 12.16.11 @ 4:14PM

TLP: I didn't get the chance to go see the President, I had an appointment to keep that day (real work), but I was really disappointed that I did miss it (I had a "really" good question I was going to ask him, if I had the chance), but a few of the Soldiers in my Company did go. They tried to shake my hand when they came back, but I didn't fall for that crap!! I don't want any "Redistribution" Cooties on me!! But seriously, most of the Soldiers who did go, said it was really boring, and they only went, because they were ordered to go (sucks to be a Private, huh?). Most of the Soldiers in the crowd, they're just kids, they don't give a sh*t about politics, so everything he said went in one ear and out the other. All they really care about is, is surviving the crazy week (and every week is crazy in the 82nd), and getting to the weekend (I can understand that, I was young once too,... a long, long time ago). But you're right, if we had followed what then Senator Obama wanted us to do, we would've left Iraq years ago. And here he was this week, talking about what a good job we did, and how Iraq has a future now (a future he would've torpedoed if he had gotten his way, back in the day, on a Wednesday, if I remember correctly?). So everything's back to normal again here at Bragg, the urge I had the other day, to take from the wealthy has left me, and I'm back to living the honorable Army Values again (Thank God for that!!). ;^)

Occam's Tool| 12.18.11 @ 8:57PM

LLL---thank you for your service, and Merry Christmas.

Occam's Tool| 12.18.11 @ 8:56PM

I hpe you are wrong, TimLP. But I fear you are right. G-d Bless, and Merry Christmas, sir.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 12:57PM

The Democrats are not running on the haves vs have-nots. That's YOUR made up term so you side doesn't sound so greedy. But it won't work. It's 1% vs the 99%. The Republicants in Congress will not support a 1.9% surcharge tax on multimillionaires, temporary, to pay for the payroll tax cut and unemployment benefit extension. Really? They just can't take 1.9% from 300,000 millionaires and billionaires after their first million is made to give 160 million American workers a tax break. Really?
Run on that in 2012, and good luck Baby.

George S| 12.16.11 @ 1:46PM

1.9% of 727 billion (see my post 12:45 pm) for 160 million people comes out to... drum roll, please...

Eight six dollars a person.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 5:10PM

2% raise in the payroll tax will amount to 1000.00 on the average person's pay, more on many, less on many. That's approximately 160 Billion dollars of economic activity in the hands of the people that need it the most to buy the products that the job creators sell, so they can crank up the factories and mills to hire more people to deliver more goods and services.
You would deny the millions of hard-working Americans because of you mathematical wizardry? And leave the $727 billion alone (if that is a real number) Really? It includes all of you too getting a $1000.00 tax raise Jan 1st - if you actually work for a living. CBO estimates we're talking a full % point of the GDP wiped out in 2012 if the tax cut is not extended. Are you seriously arguing for the tax increase?

George S| 12.16.11 @ 9:47PM

Your argument is about a surtax. I used actual IRS data to educate you as to how much income was reported by the millionaires in 2009. No math wizardry:

0.019 times 727 billion (the surtax) divided by 160 million people (your number). It takes 12 seconds on a calculator to come up with $86 dollars. That is YOUR rationale for a surtax -- to give these middle classers a tax break. Eight six dollars is all the proof one needs to show that the soak the rich is a myth because the money ain't there.

It's not my fault that a light bulb went off in your head and your Democrat-media-Daily Kos talking points evaporated in the face of simple mathematics. But I was more than glad to educate you.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 11:57PM

Not my argument - let's just borrow the money, like Republicants do ... we don't have to pay for anything - let the government default - only this time let's give the money to 160 million people, not the 300,000 at the top. Now isn't that a novel idea - 160 million vs. 300,000 - and you are still arguing in favor of protecting the 86.00/per millionaire, what? is that too much? Seriously? You don't see a flaw in your thinking?
But the point is moot now - they passed the payroll tax extension for 2 months and are paying for it by charging fees for FreddieMac and FannieMae - another brilliant solution of the Republicants - we protect the rich, but let's hurt the housing industry, the "little" people are too stupid to notice.

MikeG| 12.17.11 @ 3:06PM

So Purpie, you now believe in tax cuts to spur the economy, or are you just following the emails from Chuckie Schumer? I thought you brain dead lefties don't believe in tax cuts.

Purp| 12.17.11 @ 6:38PM

Tax cuts for the 1% and the rich/wealthy don't produce jobs - what is so hard to understand. They already have all the money they can spend - why in the world would they spend another tax cut? Hmmm?
Now give a tax cut to me and you, and we'll spend it - and generate business and ultimately a job for someone.
Are you oblivious to the fact that the 1% have increased their income 250% over the last 30 years, while yours and my income have stayed level or decreased a bit?
Tax cuts for millionaires is just stupid - unless you are getting paid back by getting political slush money back to run your campaign - oh, I just solved the problem - no one ever knew "follow the money" and you'll get the source of any problem. Republicants are shills for the wealthy and connected and their voting records show it. They just use Guns, Gays, and God to distract you people that vote for them. Check it out sometime. They say one thing to you and then do the opposite for themselves.

MikeG| 12.17.11 @ 10:05PM

Ok, purp, what should the tax rates be? Be specific as to the rate for income, such as the tax tables.

idalily| 12.19.11 @ 4:09PM

Nobody poor ever hired me for a job. You?

idalily| 12.19.11 @ 4:08PM

Why is it morally acceptable to tax the wealthy at a higher rate than everyone else? Why is is acceptable to steal from the rich merely because you are giving it to the poor? Why is it morally right to take a higher percentage of income from the 1% than the 99%? What principle does this maxim rest on?

Oh, wait. Purb is a liberal and has no principles. I forgot.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 1:45PM

Then I present you the Republicant Party - the party of Torture, the Party of Hegemony, the Party for the Rich, the Party of Racial Bigots, the Party of Homophobes, the Party of Borrow and Spend, the Party of the 1%, the Party of Union Busters, the Party of Defense Contractors, the Party of War, the Party of World Domination, The Party of the Neocons, the Party to Kill Medicare, the Party of Kill Social Security, the Party of Throw Grandma in the Street .... tell me again why your party even exists?

George S| 12.16.11 @ 1:50PM

To clean up excrement from police cars and public parks.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 5:11PM

How nice, some more people have jobs then...

Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 12.16.11 @ 3:31PM

Purp: Was that question for me? I think so, being that you picked up on my, the Party of the (fill in the blank), but turned it against the Republicans!! But that's an easy one!! The Republican Party came into being, to free the Slaves that the Democratic Party had working on their Plantations!! Now the Democratic Party of today doesn't keep Blacks in chains anymore, but they've still got them on the Plantation, just where they want them, so they can continue to use them endlessly. So the fight never ended, it's just changed, from the Plantation of yesterday, to the Hood of today, from the whips of the Overseer, to the generational welfare cycle that can never be reformed because the Democratic Party counts on dependency. Tyranny lives on the Left, Freedom lives on the Right!! So call us what you want, your words have no meaning, they're all lies, from the Party of Lies!!

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 5:15PM

That welfare canard died in the 1990's with Welfare Reform ... or didn't you get the memo? Freedom started on the left, the Founders were radical liberals with very liberal ideals and fought the conservatives, the loyalists and the British for our freedom.
Say what you want, the American people don't believe the Party of Propaganda - they've seen that movie in Germany in the 1930's and 1940's. Promising freedom and economic prosperity while gathering more and more power to the state - and the American people will have none of it - the Republicant party is on it's last breaths, RIP.

Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 12.16.11 @ 6:10PM

"they've seen that movie in Germany in the 1930's and 1940's. Promising freedom and economic prosperity while gathering more and more power to the state".

Umm, Purp, The Nazis? Are you kidding me? That was your side once again, the Nazis were from the Left, and so were the Fascists, and the Killer Commies too!! None of them were from the Right, NO, they were all from the side of Death, the Left!! And NO, the Founders were not Liberal, as the word Liberal is defined today. You know this, so stop trying to steal the Founders to your cause, they wouldn't want to have anything to do with what is called the Left today. But then again, stealing is one of those things that the Left loves doing, be it taxes, prosperity, freedom, or life (50 million plus, and counting). So Purp, how's the Occupying going? I'm not seeing it on the news much anymore!! I guess it's getting too cold outside, huh? Or maybe it's just going the way of the Coffee Party, or No Labels (remember them?)!!

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 6:49PM

Wrong - Fascism and Naziism is right wing. Communism and Socialism is left wing. Get it straight. They were the righties who believed the State is be all and end all. You're Republicant Party SAYS they are for freedom and the Constitution, but as soon as they are in power they shill for the rich and powerful, the corporate pigs and their minions. Did you miss the memo from the Koch Brothers? Did you miss the ALEC memo? Or how about the Chamber of Commerce Memo? Not exactly grass roots are they? The Republicant party says one thing, but does the opposite - oh, they will do enough to shut you all up to make it look good with God, Guns and Gays, but at it's heart, the Republicant party is for the rich, powerful, connected and corporate. Their policies and voting records show it.

Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 12.16.11 @ 7:30PM

No you're wrong!! More Lies!! No matter how many times you say it, Purp, it doesn't make it true!! The Fascists and the Nazis are from the Left, hence the National Socialist German Workers' party (or Nazis for short). Fascism: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism, and often racism (sounds like the Democratic Party to me). Keep repeating your lies, because you almost made me fall for it this time (all right, no you didn't, but it's Christmas time, and I thought I say something nice to you, but then I thought better of it!!). Did you get your memo from OFA, ACLU, Emily's List, MoveOn, NAACP, La Raza, NOW, Planned Murderhood, ACORN (or whatever their name is this week), SEIU, and George Soros? No? Too bad!! I guess you're not invited to their Holiday Tree lighting!!

Purp| 12.17.11 @ 12:11AM

" "Conservative Socialism" (and, in other circles, "Religious Socialism") was the slogan under which a large number of writers prepared the atmosphere in which "National Socialism" succeeded. it is "conservative socialism" which is the dominant trend among us now. " - Hayek, F. A. The Road to Serfdom. 1944 pp 183-198
CONSERVATIVE SOCIALISM = Naziism ... now is that right or left?
There is plenty of information on fascism and naziism, how it arose in Italy and then to Germany in the 1910's, 20's and 30's. Moreover, naziism and fascism, on the right wing of the political spectrum despised socialism and communism as well as liberal democracy, typically center-left or left on the political spectrum.

Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 12.17.11 @ 6:47AM

No once again Purp, Fascism is of the Left!! Keep repeating it, because you've got your self convinced you're right, but you're not!, Do you know the history of Benito Mussolini? He was the leading Socialist in Italy, before he started Fascism, because he thought Socialism didn't go far enough, and that it needed to be controlled by the Elite. Socialism, Fascism, Communism, are all from the Left, and everybody here knows it, except you. Left=Death!!

Timothy L. Pennell| 12.17.11 @ 7:35AM

You're wasting your time. Obama is a CULT. You can't argue with people in a Cult. Obama could Sh*t on the Stage, and then sit there, and Eat It, while he's Molesting a little Boy, and people like PERP (I'm sure that's the way it's supposed to be spelled) would marvel at his Table Manners, his choice of Forks, and his way with Kids.

They have no use for the TRUTH.
But then, you already knew that, didn't you?

Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 12.17.11 @ 11:05AM

TLP: Yeah, you're probably right, I know I'm probably wasting my time arguing with Purp, but I can't help myself!! Sometimes Purp seems to come up for air, and it's moments like that, that I feel like we can save him. Call me a Dreamer if you will, but I've got a soft spot in my heart for these Lefties, I think some of them can still be converted. Or maybe it's just an Army thing, we don't leave a fallen Soldier behind? And anyway, I never stop fighting, even if it's a fight I can't win!!

Purp| 12.17.11 @ 9:58AM

you provide no facts, no quotes, just your opinion "everybody knows it" ... well, no they don't. You even argue with one of your Gods, Fritz Hayek? The references and quotes that are a google away for anyone to read would fill up AS ... geesh, can you do your homework for a change and stop spouting "what everyone here knows" - that means nothing because common knowledge is bs. It was common knowledge the world was flat or that the sun revolved around the earth. It was common knowledge that the miasma in the air is what made you sick. It was common knowledge that Pluto was a planet. But only here is it known that the Nazis were from the left solely because "socialist" is in the name. Well Hayek said they were Conservatives - and he was there, so do you still argue with him?

Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 12.17.11 @ 10:44AM

Purp: Here's two lengthy quotes for you from, The Road To Serfdom, by F.A. Hayek. I have the "Special Abridged Edition" sitting right here on my desk, the Heritage Foundation send it to me, for being a member in good standing!!

"Long before the Nazis, too, the German and Italian socialists were using techniques of which the Nazis and Fascists later made effective use. The idea of a political party which embraces all activities of the individual from the cradle to the grave, which claims to guide his views on everything, was first put into practice by the socialists. It was not the Fascists but the socialists who began to collect children at the tenderest age into political organizations to direct their thinking. It was not the Fascists but the socialists who first thought of organizing sports and games, football and hiking, in party clubs where the members would not be infected by other views. It was the socialists who first insisted that the party member should distinguish himself from others by the modes of greeting and the forms of address. It was they who, by their organization of "cells" and devices for the permanent supervision of private life, created the prototype of the totalitarian party. By the time Hitler came to power, liberalism was dead in Germany. And it was socialism that had killed it. To many who have watched the transition from socialism to fascism at close quarters the connection between the two systems has become increasingly obvious, but in the democracies the majority of people still believe that socialism and freedom can be combined. They do not realize that democratic socialism, the great utopia of the last few generations, is not only unachievable but that to strive for it produces something utterly different - the very destruction of freedom itself. As has been aptly said: "What has always made the state a hell on earth has been precisely that man has tried to make it his heaven."

"Although our modern socialists' promise of greater freedom is genuine and sincere, in recent years observer after observer has been impressed by the unforeseen consequences of socialism, the extraordinary similarity in many respects of the conditions under "communism" and "fascism." As the writer Peter Drucker expressed it in 1939, "the complete collapse of the belief in the attainability of freedom and equality through Marxism has forced Russia to travel the same road toward a totalitarian society of un-freedom and inequality which Germany has been following. Not that communism and fascism are essentially the same. Fascism is the stage reached after communism has proved an illusion, and it has proved as much an illusion in Russia as in pre-Hitler Germany."

Everybody knows Fascism, Nazism, and Communism are all from the Left, except for you Purp, but guess what, that just means you don't know what you're talking about, or you're lying again (or a combination of the two?)!! The three ideologies are separated by a few degrees, but they are all from the same family group, the Left.

Purp| 12.17.11 @ 6:46PM

So by your reckoning, since the Nazis used socialist techniques that makes them socialist - then since Fixed News and the Republicants make good use of propaganda techniques that the Nazis used, and you can look up the exact wording, then the Republicants are Nazis, since they use some of the same propaganda techniques. Oh, and these techniques are spelled out quite well in Mein Kampf, author Adolf Hitler. You can read all about the low-information voter, the bumper sticker sloganeering, the repetitive lying until it is believed ... Oh, and how he rails against Social Democracy and Communism of the LEFT. Uncle Adolf has it all in there for you good little Nazis and Frank Luntz to read. Now, did I get your drift correct, is this what you're saying?

Purp| 12.17.11 @ 6:48PM

Mein Kampf - read about the right-wing tactics :
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200601.txt

Look up "propaganda" "social democracy" "communism", it will open your eyes next time you listen to Fox or Rush.

Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 12.17.11 @ 7:25PM

Yes Purp!! The Nazis using Socialist techniques would make them Socialist!! But the rest of your rant, ummm,... I don't know what the f*ck you're talking about. Seriously, did you drop acid again? And the "bumper sticker sloganeering", you're talking about here, are you kidding me? Once again, the Left are the ones that are really into slogans!! Haven't you read Ann Coulter's Demonic yet? No? It's a good read!! Here's "some" of the ones she came up with, for your enjoyment!! I'm sure you've got them all memorized already!!

Bush Lied, Kids Died! Our Bodies, Our Selves! No Blood for Oil! No Justice, No Peace! Save the Whales; Love Your Mother (Earth); Ban the Bomb; Make Love, Not War; Friends Don't Let Friends Vote Republican; Diversity Is Our Strength! Save the Planet! Pro-Choice, Pro-Child! Support Our Troops, Bring them Home! Co-Exist! Hey, Hey, LBJ, How Many Kids Did You Kill Today? Dissent Is Patriotic! War Is Not the Answer! Go Green! Healthcare Is a Right, Not a Privilege! Imagine Peace; Celebrate Diversity! Beat the Bushes for Peace! No Nukes! Give Peace a Chance; Think Globally/Act Locally; No Tax Cuts for the Rich; Save the Planet! Venceremos! One, Two, Three, Four, We Don't Want Your F--King War! Bush = Hitler; Hell No, We Won't Go! Off the Pig! Eat the Rich! Die Yuppie Scum! Peace Now! We Are the Ones We've Been Waiting For! Solidarity Forever! Bring America Home! You Can't Hug a Child with Nuclear Arms; Meat Is Murder! Books Not Bombs! Fight the Power! Yes We Can!

There's plenty more, I can assure you, but I've got the memory of a goldfish, so it would've take me a week to remember another one, that's not on this list (thank God for Copy and Paste)!! What are the Right's slogans again? No new taxes? Taxed Enough Already? Yeah, you got me there!!

Speak Truth To Power, Purp!! Oh crap, that another Leftist Slogan too!!

And Purp? Mein Kampf is your f**king book, not mine!! And so is the Communist Manifesto!! Not mine, yours!!

Purp| 12.17.11 @ 9:19PM

Sorry dude, but you didn't answer for the tactics that Hitler used that your buddies use now. The whole right/left, who's a socialist is a moot point anyway, since we are all socialists now. you just don't like having to pay for your socialist gimmes, so you want lower taxes, but you never say what you will do without.

Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 12.18.11 @ 8:09AM

That's Sergeant Dude to you, Purp!! Now why would I answer a Straw Man argument like the one you keep framing to me? The Republican Party, Conservatives, and The Tea Party have "nothing" to do with Hitler and the Nazis' Tactics or propaganda (or the Fascists, or Commies either). So I have nothing to answer to you about regarding the Nazis!! Your Party on the other hand, has a lot to answer for, in regards to these political ideologies. Every year it exists, the Democratic Party moves closer to them, and away from freedom.

http://declarationentertainmen.....epublicans

I hope I copied the link above correctly, my computer skills are well, not good. But this video covers almost everything we've been arguing about, if you've got a few minutes to watch it. You're not in the Army, so I'm not ordering you to watch it, I'm just suggesting you view it!!

Timothy L. Pennell| 12.18.11 @ 9:02AM

You didn't listen.
These ar not - Fallen Soldiers.
They're ZOMBIES.
You would do well to remember that.
Merry Christmas, my friend. To you, and yours.

Purp| 12.18.11 @ 9:29AM

"You're not in the Army, so I'm not ordering you to watch it" - well, im sure glad of that - the last time I said "yes,sir" and saluted I was in the Air Force. No one commands that position over me any longer.
Did you read any of Mein Kampf regarding propaganda (you can almost here Frank Luntz in those pages or Newt Gingrich for that matter)
I didn't say the Republicants are Nazis - I said they are using some of the same tactics, propaganda in particular.
Fascism puts the state at the center of all life in a country which Germany indulged in during the 30's and 40's - that was after liberal democracy failed - why would you believe they went further left, since in Germans eyes it failed?
Communism (Marxism, not Soviet Totalitarianism) puts the people at the center of all life - give according to your means and receive according to your needs. There has never been a "real" Communist system, just a totalitarian society called Communist.

Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 12.18.11 @ 9:58AM

Purp: Did you watch the video that I didn't order you to watch? I hope you enjoyed it!! You were in the Air Force? Really? What happened to you Man? Did you have to eject from your plane, and then your parachute failed to deploy? I've had some bad landings myself, but I've yet to turn into a Liberal Lunatic like you, so maybe it "was" the acid after all!!

I have never, and will never read Hitler's Mein Kampf!! Nor have I read the Communist Manifesto!! I've also never killed anybody either, but I don't need to kill somebody, to understand that it's wrong!! So I reject your claim, that the Republicans put the State at the center of all life, which I think you're trying to say. I reject that premise!! They don't!! We want less Government in our lives, not more!! The Democratic Party wants the State in every aspect of our lives, or at least as many parts of our lives as possible. So keep reading your Mein Kampf, maybe the Democratic Party can take it's recommendations, and make it into their Platform in the upcoming Elections. Wait a second!! Didn't the Democrats already do that? Or was that the KKK? I forget!! But seriously, what's the difference anyway? Purp, I'm going Golfing, so I can't argue for awhile, okay?

Occam's Tool| 12.18.11 @ 9:07PM

I read the Communist Manifesto, Dante's Inferno, and The Prince---bought by me at age 13, with the gift certificates I got from my Bar Mitzvah. I had heard that Das Kapital was turgid, and that Communism could be understood through the Manifesto. I also had a Communist as my sociology prof in college (he openly admitted his bias, and gave me a well-deserved 'A.'We enjoyed our arguments.).

The Manifesto is tosh. As Heinein noted, it failed to note that an excellent chef could make a great meal from average ingrediants, and an idiot could destroy perfect apples and make nothing of value, thus detracting from the base value of the apples. (It's from somewhere in Starship Troopers)

In short, unguided labor is useless, and high skill at the labor is of more value than lack of skill. The Prince was interesting, although my personality is too cold and unfeeling to do it well (I'm not a politician), and Inferno was riotous fun, as Dante's enemies ended up in hell.

idalily| 12.19.11 @ 4:12PM

Wrong. Call it what you will, fascism, naziism, communism, socialism--whatever "ism" makes you feel better about it, but they are the same "ism". They are all TOTALITARIANISM. They take by force what they cannot take by persuasion. You are a totalitarian, Purp. You seek to steal what you cannot persuade others to voluntarily give. You are the toxic poison of all free people.

Occam's Tool| 12.18.11 @ 8:58PM

Freedom started from the LEFT? That would be news to John Hancock, the greatest capitalist of the colonies.

Margie| 12.16.11 @ 3:44PM

You Aced it as usual, LLL's!
Merry Christmas to you & yours, SGT.

Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 12.16.11 @ 7:47PM

Hi Margie!! Merry Christmas to you, and yours too!!

Really big news for the coming year!! Besides voting President Obama out of office!! But this is even bigger than that (but only slightly)!! Jethro Tull is coming on tour, and they are going to be playing the "entire" Classic Thick As A Brick album, in honor of its 40 anniversary!! Wow!! Tull playing Gerald Bostock's 45 minute masterpiece in it's entirety, for the first time since 1972, only taking the White House, and the Senate away from the Democrats, and enlarging the Republican control of the House could be better!!

Margie| 12.16.11 @ 8:53PM

Hahaha! Well, that might be as good as if Stevie Ray Vaughn came back from the dead and did a concert, wouldn't it? And I know how good sounding Tull was back in the day, though I don't remember if I ever got one of their albums except what's that song that goes, "sitting on a park bench.." I think I had that one and used to listen to it over and over. That's when I was REAL young, like 15.

Well, that concert should be awesome and if I didn't fear losing my hearing more than I already have from going to that WHO concert back then, and that Stones concert and that Dylan Concert and that Oldies concert with Jerry Lee Lewis and Chuck Berry (can you believe I gave up going to see Zepplin instead? it was a Birthday present and I had to pick one so I picked the Oldies concert) Hey, what can I say? Have you ever seen jerry Lee Lewis play the piano with his feet? Idid!! And Chuck Berry? I was 16 and we had floor seats and we were standing up on them, dancing and clapping away.

I don't regret it. But I never did get to see Zepplin live. Oh, well.

But at this point, I'd need a bodyguard to get me through the crowd for fear of being trampled, and a dog and cat sitter and then a way to get there.

You enjoy, kiddo.

BTW~ did I ever tell you about the Stones concert I went to where they were handing out styrofoam frisbees to everyone on the way in (they had that tongue embossed on them), and I was sitting in the first level mezzanine and Jagger motioned to me to throw it to him?
Haha, it made my day. I threw it but it was a lousy throw, but at least it landed on the stage. He had to go and get it, but I don't remember if he threw it back, don' think so.

Have a great time, SGT. You're awesome.

Should Have Impeached| 12.16.11 @ 8:50PM

You're right. We who are not rich do not consider ourselves "have nots". We recognize that we can have more because this country (so far) allows us the freedom and opportunity to do so. We watch other "poor" people become rich, they come from our ranks, so they are NOT our oppressors. Furthermore, the "rich" in this country are a large part of the reason others of us can come alongside them or behind them, and capture our dreams too... because, if I may say, THEY HELP US! I walk by a rich man's house and do not envy him. I see someone who can show me how, or who spurs me on to become better at what I do--or to change course if I'm not doing what's most prosperous for me... if that's what I want to do. I work with, travel with, am educated with, and worship with people who have more than I, and they treat me as an equal. We are Americans. Though I live in a different neighborhood, they are my neighbors. I do not consider them my enemy or my oppressor. Maybe that's an old European notion. It doesn't characterize our relationship in America. We need political leaders who recognize this. We need truly American leaders.

Wayne| 12.16.11 @ 7:48AM

What the Alinskites fail to realize is that Alinsky was a loser. His tactics are the tactics of losers and insurgencies. They fail to produce leaders and maturing of its practitioners. It leads to a man-child like Obama completely in over his head in responsibility. He is much too immature for responsibility and leadership.

Mimi| 12.16.11 @ 7:56AM

He's now over 50 but still acts like the teen-age kid with the BOOM-BOX on his shoulder heading toward the corner....not a care in the world...with chaos ( of his making) all around him!

RobLACa| 12.16.11 @ 3:55PM

LOL, He does remind me of "Radio Rawheem". "D" mo...fo... "D".

Hey Purp, keep up the perpetual fraud. It's all you losers who support the criminal organization of democrats have left in hopes for their survival. The party of democrats do not exist to serve the American people.

On more thing Purp, I find it amusing that you as a hateful miserable 20%'er and defender of the criminal frauds believes to possess the credibility to speak about anything at all. You presenting the Republicant? party??? Bwa haa haa ... then asking questions LOL, You have no credibility to ask questions, it's a democrat tactic to distract distort and deceive.

As a registered democratic AMERICAN since the age of 18 I spent many years, blindly and ignorantly voting straight democratic. The moment I began to have an an interest in politics and informing myself it took no more than 15 minutes to realize I had made a huge mistake. I had been voting for a bunch of dirty lying criminal frauds who support our enemies while attacking a sitting President in a time of war.

The party of democrats have have crossed the point of no return and have no intentions of following our Constitutions or the rule of law. Vote them out of existence.

Purp| 12.17.11 @ 10:08AM

"while attacking a sitting President in a time of war." - you mean our Cheerleader-in-Chief? 'Cause he sure wasn't much of a Commander-in-Chief. He could barely take out the Flintstones, I mean Iraqi Army, and then couldn't stop the insurgency after he fired the Iraqi Army we defeated- what did idiot boy THINK they were going to do?
Oh and you mean that same Baby Bush that couldn't find Osama Bin Laden? He couldn't find his d* in his pants.
But, no matter, we now have a real Commander-in-Chief, regardless of whether you hate him, who won and ended the Iraq war and killed Osama Bin Laden and is winding down the war in Afghanistan - and he didn't have to wear a flight jacket and play navy air pilot on the deck of an aircraft carrier to do it.
You mean that same Bushie that allowed torture, suspended habeas corpus (violating the Constitution and the Geneva Convention on Torture), allowed wiretapping of Americans without cause (violation again of the Constitution), used the entire Federal government apparatus to pass a law for Terry Schiavo (violating the Constitution again), invading Iraq and Afghanistan without a declaration of WAR(again violating the Constitution) and the list goes on and on and on. And YOU want to blame the Democrats for - what was that again? You were smarter when you were 18 ... usually we get smarter as we age - what happened to you?

W| 12.17.11 @ 3:15PM

Purple,
1. I explained to you last week that the Seals killed Osama. Obama was playing golf with manservant Reggie. Panetta made the decision.

2. The info to kill Osama came from the waterboarding of three terrorrists.

3. You approve of Obama killing terrorrists but you oppose the waterboarding of three terrorrists to obtain info that protected Americans and let to Osama's kill. Is that it, MORON?

4. Why is it ok for Obama to kill the terrorrists but not ok for Bush to waterboard three terrorrists to obtain the info? Asked you last week, are you checking with Rose O'Donnell and Bill Maher for an answer?

5. Congress approved the war in Iraq, idiot. If it was illegal why didnt Obama withdraw three years ago? Why didnt Obam close Guantanamo three years ago?
6. Do you really think Bush was personally looking for Osama, or are you blaming the military for not finding Osama?

Your partisan politics has blinded you to reality and reason.

Purp| 12.17.11 @ 6:24PM

Dubya -
1. And I explained to you, and please write it down, it's very tiring you cannot retain this simple thought - Nothing, I mean, nothing in the military as important as Bin Laden's capture/killing would have been a go without the Commander-in-Chief's approval. Obama gave the orders and others carried it out, period. Something Bush could not get done. Obama's strategy worked, Bush's did not, it's that simple.
2. That torture works is a right-wing myth, but of course they must "prove" that it works, to cover their crimes against humanity.
3. I LUV that Obama kills terrorists, the more the merrier , and I luv that he's killed more Al Qaeda than Bush could in his dreams, no matter where they are - even in Pakistan- whereever did you pick up that ridiculous claim - your sources are nuts?
4. If you ask any military planner, general, high ranking official you will understand that we are better than the terrorists and so we show it by not torturing. Moreover, if we do it, our military can be expected to suffer the same, and our protests of torture will go unheard of. The terrorists may ignore what we say/do, but the rest of the world does not. Having said all that, real military and CIA interrogators have testified that torture does not work - something draft dodger Cheney and Navy Reservist stay-at-home 'cause Daddie's important Bush would never understand nor could know first hand.
5. No - Congress approved the use of military force, which is NOT a declaration of war and it's debatable that it is even Constitutional to do anyway. Obama did not withdraw irresponsibly - something that cannot be said for Ronald Reagan from Lebanon - running home with his tail between his legs. He waited patiently for the Iraqis to take control. BTW - the withdrawal timetable was a Bush blunder, if it turns out to be a blunder. I couldn't care less about Guantanamo - that's a Bush problem - let the Republicants figure it out when they have a chance at playing President. They're so good at complaining, let them fix it- they created it.
6. No, it's not the military - it's Bush's strategy and direction that caused Bin Laden to escape Tora Bora in the first place. The marines on the ground begged for more troops because they had Bin Laden cornered - but Bush was busy getting ready to launch his ill-conceived, pre-emptive, undeclared war against Iraq and focused attention and resources there. Since then, he said it himself - "I don't really think about Osama Bin Laden, I don't care really" - he admits he took his eye of the prize, 'cause it was tooo hard to do.
Now I have some questions:
1. Why, when the Iraq Army was defeated, did Bush fire the Iraqi Army? Even the Nazis were not "fired" after WWII. What did he think 1 million men were going to do with no jobs and an invader on their door?
2. Why did Bush violate the International Treaties and torture ?
3. Why did Bush suspend habeas corpus - which is a right in the body of the Constitution, the Founders thought it so important. We were not being invaded or rebelled against.
4. Why did Bush apologize to China for an aircraft straying over Chinese territory after asking them nicely to return our aircraft? They did not, btw.
5. Why couldn't Bush be bothered while he was on vacation by the tragedy of Hurricane Katrina and the plight of thousands in New Orleans ?
6. Why did we lose billions in Iraq that no one can find?
7. Why did Bush allow no-bid contracts for the work in Iraq to support the military?
8. Why in the world did Bush keep Cheney on the ticket for his re-election?
9. Why didn't Bush have the spine to stand up to critics when he picked Harriet Miers for the Supreme Court?
10. Why can't the Republicants compromise with the President to enable more job creation in this country? Why do they have to hold the American economy and people hostage to whatever their latest whim is (aka the Canadian pipeline). And, why haven't the Bush tax cuts created jobs?
11. Why do you vote for people that take the money right away from you and give it the people that pay for their re-election?

W| 12.17.11 @ 7:16PM

Purp
Again you refuse to answer the question of why it is ok to kill a terrorrist but not to waterboard three terrorrists to obtain the info that led to Osama's kill. Maybe I gave you too many questions for you to answer. So answer this question and then we will deal your other non answers.

Common lefty techinique. You avoid answering a simple questions by posing other so called questions that assume as facts falsehoods and mistrepresentations.

State the document where Bush suspended habeas corpus. If your answer is the Patriot Act, then that law was passed by Congress, MORON. Bush did not suspend it and you know it.
Congress approved the Iraq War. period. If you are concerned about it, where is the Congressional approval for Libya or Central Africa? Questions to tough for you? Take another week to read Bill Maher.

Who cares about Harriet Miers? Katrina? God your are desperate.
Answer the first question,if you can.

idalily| 12.19.11 @ 4:15PM

W, Purp does not answer questions. He runs away to attack another day. The reason for this is that he has no bedrock of principle he can argue from. He only has the grab bag of liberal talking point cliches. Yeah, he's that deep. Deep as a puddle.

RobLACa| 12.17.11 @ 4:50PM

You are a complete loser resigned to lie for the rest of your miserable life defending criminal scum who fiend for power who cannot win elections on merit or honesty. Sucks to be you and you cannot hide it. Your and your criminal organization can play make believe and follow your script to the T, makes no difference. You losers are pickled and can't change your spots.

Democrats are the ones who caucus with the Communist Party USA.

Democrats are the ones who fight in every state for their 85% felon support base that they be given the right to vote democrat from their prison cells.

It was the Democrat leader in the Senate while in the COMPLETE MINORITY who received a letter from the front lines containing the following ....

"TO BE BRIEF YOUR WORDS ARE KILLING US"

Continue to delude yourself to your hearts content. You are always going to lie and be full of hate for those you and your masters can never measure up to. LOL and you do it by choice. Idiot.

Purp| 12.17.11 @ 6:30PM

I can do that too - "You are a complete loser resigned to lie for the rest of your miserable life defending criminal scum who fiend for power who cannot win elections on merit or honesty. Sucks to be you and you cannot hide it. Your and your criminal organization can play make believe and follow your script to the T, makes no difference. You losers are pickled and can't change your spots." - isn't that fun and means not a d* thing, does it?

So, because someone WAS a felon (not a current prisoner - that's a lie), paid the price to society in jail, and now wants to vote, you don't think they should? Why not?
Communist Party USA - there still is one? Really? I thought they went the way of your buds, the skinheads and Aryan Nation.
Senate leader, who? Since the D's are in control of the Senate, guess that's a moot point, eh, Chuckles?
"Continue to delude yourself to your hearts content. You are always going to lie and be full of hate for those you and your masters can never measure up to. LOL and you do it by choice. Idiot. " - My that was fun .. have a nice day.

RobLACa| 12.19.11 @ 3:04AM

As I have said many times before, you are not smart enough to keep your mouth shut.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 1:47PM

What is this obsession with Alinsky? Gingrich is the new Alinsky...

c. j. acworth| 12.16.11 @ 8:07AM

Oh, this country is devides between haves and have nots alright, but not defined primarily by income. The haves are mostly found in government, and those who depend on it. These would include congresscritters, regulators, and the CEO's of outfits from Solyndra to GM. The have-nots are those of us who pay for the privilige of being robbed of our birthright and our children's future by these parasites. That is the message the Republican standard bearer must hammer home.

rpm| 12.16.11 @ 9:00AM

Well said.

We have two political parties in this country--those who pay taxes and those who get paid BY taxes.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 10:11AM

do you envy those are too poor to pay federal income taxes ? would you trade your income for theirs ? all we hear from the right is whining about the wealthy being asked to pay a little more to help with the deficit or payroll tax extension. two thirds of americans support this.

Teaghan| 12.16.11 @ 1:45PM

They ALREADY pay "a little more". Would you rather they pay 60-70 % percent of what they earn?? Well, tell Buffet and Gates to sign the effing checks to the US Treasury instead of putting all their money into "charites" where it's tax deductible. Bastards should put their money w here their mouths are. And that goes for the silly know-it-all progressives in Hollywierd as well.

idalily| 12.19.11 @ 4:25PM

What is the moral justification for taxing the wealthy at a higher rate than everyone else? Taxing isn't "asking". It's taking. Nobody ASKED me to pay Medicare and SS and welfare, and all the other liberal goodies that were supposed to help the poor. They took it out of my paycheck, money that I EARNED with MY hard work, and there was no "asking" about it. There is never any asking involved in liberal stealing/wealth redistribution. Stealing from the rich, even if your intent is to give it to the poor, is NOT morally right. And all your liberal insults and accusations don't make it right. If I broke into your house and stole some of your valuables, then donated the money to charity, would that be fine with you? Should we pass a law that says burglars shall go free if they can produce a charitable contribution receipt?

I am not wealthy, but I do not covet what I have not earned. And I what I do have, I EARNED by my own hard work and effort. So keep your greedy, avaricious hands off of my hard earned money, liberal. I will choose who to give it to without your help.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 10:11AM

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 10:12AM

Stammon| 12.16.11 @ 10:29AM

You need to see a doctor about that hiccup. My problem with feeding the poor is you get what you pay for. They are like barn cats, feed them and you get more of them. It's better to employ them and at least teach them self respect.

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 12:38PM

Great analogy!

nick| 12.16.11 @ 2:05PM

I don't think it's appropriate to compare human beings to barn cats. You could have been one of those kids, born to the 'barn cats' with no hope for a future.

I don't think it's appropriate for those of us born into relatively good situations like I was and I'm assuming you were, to judge those who weren't.

Note, I am not even disagreeing with what you said. Just with cold, inhuman attitude.

The most important human quality is the ability to place yourself in another's shoes.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 2:05PM

You're a heartless a* ...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/n.....51944034/1

nick| 12.16.11 @ 2:42PM

That's what's driven me from conservatism/libertarianism. I was a big Rand fan, Ron Paul Supporter in 2008, voted McCain, but my views are changing.

It's not so much the ideas but the total lack of empathy many of them display.

For me, I need to continually realize that I could have been born into a much worse situation than I have been.

I work and earn a living, and it hasn't been that hard for me. Because I was born with good parents in a good area who taught me how to do that. Some people, especially those caught in multi-generational poverty, have not had that opportunity.

I am not going to get on this high horse of "I WORK HARD, IF YOU WORKED HARD TOO YOU'D BE WHERE I AM."

I just did what I am supposed to do and I don't deserve any special pat on the back for it. Also, I had the government handout of public education in a good school system/public university, help me a lot along the way.

Some people don't know what to do, because they weren't taught to. They have a zillion kids and then the system has to pay for those kids. The people who work like myself have to pay them, and I understand the conservative frustration with that. The productive people always have to pay for the unproductive people. But the utter contempt towards the poor and the delusion that all poor people deserve to be poor, and could easily not be poor if they just 'got a job' is ridiculous. It's not that easy and I am in no place to judge.

idalily| 12.19.11 @ 4:31PM

This is America. He's got the right to be a heartless a*% if he wants to. And that still doesn't give you the moral right to take his earnings and redistribute them to the "poor." Robin Hood was a thief, not a hero. And the barn cat analogy, while harsh, is accurate in terms of RESULTS, not that liberals ever care about the results of their supposed good intentions. Feed those cats and they will never leave, and you then become responsible for them from then on. That's called a welfare state.

Jobe| 12.16.11 @ 12:28PM

pggyverdad (verdad - truth in Spanish) Working people are not the unwashed, partiers who are "occupying" the property of others, inhibiting others from exercising their rights, and in general, screwing up the Nation. Those people, the working people, are busy WORKING!!! I've no sympathy for these lice infested swine. They do not represent me. I represent me.

nick| 12.16.11 @ 2:00PM

I have a job, pay federal income taxes, wash myself, and generally support those protests.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 2:07PM

So do I ... it's unconscionable we allow this to happen in the richest country on the planet.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/n.....51944034/1

MikeG| 12.16.11 @ 3:37PM

Purple, You have a job? Let me guess, you are a coordinator for a government funded, non profit, bicycle path in the inner city. A government drone.

nick| 12.16.11 @ 4:05PM

I have a job in the private sector, pay federal income taxes, wash myself, and generally support those protests.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 4:41PM

No, actually I'm a high paid consultant for a fortune 10 company. I probably pay for your kids to go to school and for your grandparents to be on Medicare and Social Security. You see, I don't see my contribution of taxes as having others leech off of me, since life has been good to me, I don't mind giving back. Since I don't have the time to care for others, I'm glad to government is there to help make our society more fair and kind than it would be without it.
But I understand the frustration for those of you who haven't made much of yourselves and don't make much of an income. Every penny is dear to those who don't have many - but the real question is "Why do you support the Republicant shills of the 1%, the CEOs that make 500 times more income than you? " That's nuts, don't you agree?

MikeG| 12.16.11 @ 8:43PM

High paid consultant for fortune 10? Hey DimBulb, the term is Fortune 500, not fortune 10. You don't even know that Nazis was the short term for National Socialist Party. What a laugh, what is the name of this company, is it Vandelay? Is it in your mommy's basement?

nick| 12.17.11 @ 8:58AM

Actually fortune 10 is the top 10
fortune 50 is the top 50
fortune 100 is the top 100
fortune 500 is the top 500
it actually goes to 1000, there's a fortune 1000.

look it up, i thought republicans knew more about business than democrats but i guess not.

MikeG| 12.17.11 @ 7:17PM

nick, are you purp's alter ego or spokesman or whatever?

nick| 12.18.11 @ 1:37PM

No, I'm not, but if I was, it wouldn't change the fact that what I said is true.

"Are you purp's alter ego or spokesman or whatever" isn't a counter argument to my argument. Basically, that's you saying "Oh crap, nick is correct, so I better say something stupid like accusing him of being an alter-ego because that's the best I can do."

nick| 12.18.11 @ 2:04PM

Frankly, I agree with you that Purp may be lying about his or her profession.

But you acted like Purp was the dumbest person alive ("dimbulb") for saying "fortune 10," when the fortune 10 clearly exist. So looks like you're the real idiot.

You needed somebody to bring you back to planet Earth. You're obviously not as much of a genius as you think you are. And it's not so much that you didn't know the fortune 10 existed, that's not that big of a deal... it's that you were SO 100% SURE you were right. I enjoyed pointing out you were wrong after your childish tirade.

nick| 12.17.11 @ 8:59AM

http://money.cnn.com/magazines....._revenues/

youre so smart

idalily| 12.19.11 @ 4:34PM

Yep, you are a totalitarian. It's now confirmed. Not "allowing" implies force. And who gets to decide how "rich" people are "allowed" to be? You?

A government that can give you everything you need can take everything you have. That is the kind of government you want, move to Cuba.

nick| 12.16.11 @ 8:08AM

You lose your credibility when you assume all protesters are of the type 'defecating on a police car or an American flag, instigating violence, and generally being incoherent.'

I'm sure you can point out examples of that happening, and I would not disagree. But I can point out examples of a minority of Tea Partiers doing things that make the movement look bad as a whole. (spelling errors, racist comments, etc) I can point out examples of Police doing things that make them look bad as a whole. (pepper spraying the sitting protesters at Davis)

To say that these minorities represent these groups as a whole is entirely dishonest. Even more dishonest is to push the stereotypes about the groups you disagree with, and then vehemently disagree with the stereotypes about your group.

Ross Kaminsky | 12.16.11 @ 8:29AM

I did not say that characterized all protesters. I said that you don't need very many of those people to cause the public to have a certain opinion of the entire group.

And I certainly didn't say that the police have always behaved well. But the police aren't trying to turn us into a socialist nation.

Warrior | 12.16.11 @ 11:25AM

Just quote Ayn Rand to nick - "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality." How's my spelling and punctuation?

nick| 12.16.11 @ 1:14PM

Rereading your article, you are correct... but you did say the movement was founded by people who lack basic hygene. So my original argument stands.

As for them 'trying to turn us into a socialist nation,' that's a stereotype just as much as being hygiene-challenged is. They are just tired of the privatized gains/socialized losses of 'too big to fail.' The young are tired of the lack of opportunity.

Ross Kaminsky | 12.16.11 @ 6:13PM

Give me a break. The Occupy movement is full of idiots and socialists...but I repeat myself. They are not "just" tired of socialized losses. Had they stopped there, they would have had a point. But they are also tired of getting worthless college degrees and having to pay back the loans they took out. They are tired of banks. They want to go back to a barter society. They are, as a Russian friend of mine used to say, oxygen thieves.

nick| 12.17.11 @ 10:04AM

By idiot, you mean "everybody who disagrees with me," which isn't the true definition, so I'll ignore that term. I will say this: there are idiots (using the real definition) and sheep out there, like any other political movement. However, by the very definition of sheep, sheep can't start a political movement.

I'm glad you brought up the term "socialist," however, because we can have a discussion about what it means. Pure capitalism means no government spending whatsoever, anarcho-capitalism I suppose. Pure socialism means the government seizes 100% of incomes and distributes them how they see fit.

Pure capitalism has never existed, and pure socialism has been tried as has failed. If any degree of wealth redistribution is to be branded socialism, however, the United States has always been socialist.

If you scroll through these comments, you will see me discussing public education with another poster, VBMax. He said he supported the original idea of public education. I pointed out that that the pure, conservative/libertarian/Randian would be anti-public education. It is a seizing of wealth from the producers, given for free to people who haven't earned it. It's a handout. VBMax responded "No, not everyone can afford to send their kids to private school or homeschool them."

By your definition of socialism, VBMax, a dyed-in-the-wool Obama hating conservative, isn't really a conservative... he's a socialist. If he supports the idea of taking from people who earned something to give to those who haven't, he's a socialist. Any Republican politician who supports the idea of public education (known as 'the great equalizer') is actually a socialist, a RINO.

Back to the protesters. It's easy and convenient for you to be able to throw around the term 'socialist' like it's some black and white thing. It's definitely a political winner for your side, as well. However, somebody who supports returning to Clinton-era tax rates in order to pay down the defecit, invest in infrastructure, and expand federal subsidies of higher education, or whatever else, is simply more socialist than you are. These protesters are more socialist than you, sure. But they are not in favor of a USSR-style total centrally planned economy. You wish they were, because they'd be easier to defeat that way. You will continue to push the idea that they are (all's fair in love and war), because they'll be easier to defeat that way. But they aren't.

The political dialouge of our country is a joke. It's all one-liners like 'socialist idiots.' Lefties are guilty as well. I live in Ohio and the anti-SB5 ads they put out didn't even mention collective bargaining rights, it was all, 'you're going to die in a fire if you vote for this bill.' I'm just trying to hold an intellectual conservative magazine like the Spectator to its own standards.

It's all game theory really. The side that doesn't go idiotic will lose, so they both go idiotic. All to get these prized 'independent' voters who are really the dumbest, most sheep-like of all voters, who aren't smart enough to actually believe in anything whatsoever and just vote what's cool that year.

If Newt wins the nomination, and sticks to what he said and challenges the President to Lincoln-Douglas debates, I think that would be great. If he did and the President turned it down, my respect for the President would certainly drop.

For what it's worth, I appreciate you responding to me, and look forward to another.

Occam's Tool| 12.20.11 @ 1:45AM

Happy Hanukkah, Ross. Myself, I prefer the term "Waste of CHON." Or, even more fun, as we used to say in Med School, "piss poor protoplasm, poorly put together."

AhiaGuy| 12.16.11 @ 8:50AM

"...I can point out examples of a minority of Tea Partiers doing things that make the movement look bad as a whole. (spelling errors, racist comments, etc)..."

OMG! Spelling errors! The barbarians are at the gates! Spelling errors = the grammatical equivalent of public defecation, urination, sexual assaults, substance abuse, violence...

And BTW, there's so far been no validation of the claims of racism among tea party activists. Just because you repeat a lie, doesn't make it so.

MikeyVA| 12.16.11 @ 9:04AM

Spelling errors? Compared to pooping on a car?

Did you fall nad hit your head?

Racists canard always presented by the lame left. Give one example where this was tolerated.

You are a leftist idiot.

Teaghan| 12.16.11 @ 1:49PM

We must remind the libbies of the Code Pink rally in LA where they demonstrators there were calling for Clarence Thomas and his wife to be and I quote, "strung up and hung" and "put back out in the fields". Now I ask you, who are the racists?

al222| 12.16.11 @ 9:08AM

the PROTESTERS lose all credibility when they claim to represent 99% of America.

bull-gator| 12.16.11 @ 9:32AM

WTF? and I don't mean "winning the future".

CW| 12.16.11 @ 10:58AM

Re: UC Berkley incident... The MSM showed a very slanted version of this story. Watch the video of the entire incident and you will see that the police acted reasonably. Protestors had surrounded them and refused to let them pass. They asked politely and repeatedly for those blocking them to move and the protestors refused. They were warned what would happen if they didn't move. When it became clear that they were going to get pepper sprayed, there was ample warning, they started shouting "Don't shoot the children!" Yep, that's the only thing they got right that day... What babies! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Uj1cV97XQ

Teaghan| 12.16.11 @ 1:50PM

They were hoping for another Kent State event.

Con Chef (NB) | 12.16.11 @ 12:10PM

nick writes:

"But I can point out examples of a minority of Tea But I can point out examples of a minority of Tea Partiers doing things that make the movement look bad as a whole. (spelling errors, racist comments, etc)

Well, I guess in addition to crapping on cop cars, the Occupados, who now know that some people are ignorant because of typos, don't know how to write correctly, either.

"But I can point out examples of a minority of Tea Partiers doing things that make the movement look bad as a whole. (spelling errors, racist comments, etc)"

You kvetch about "spelling errors," yet are too stupid to realize that when you put something in parentheses, the punctuation for the end of the sentence goes AFTER what you put in parentheses. You do this because its still part of the same sentence.

But please, keep an eye out for mis-spellings.

nick| 12.16.11 @ 2:08PM

I can do this too. You should have put an apostrophe in your "it's" in your second last paragraph.

It's not the point. I was saying that that is a common stereotype that doesn't represent the movement as a whole.

Occam's Tool| 12.19.11 @ 1:38AM

I dunno, Nick. The Tea Partiers always leave their places cleaner than when they came in, and you could take kids and grandmothers in wheelchairs to the events. I know this because I attended them and kids and grannies were both there.

The OWSers rape women, make pornos, create filth that needs to be hosed off, close small businesses by destroying their ability to stay open, leech off people while protesting, and generally act like a bunch of dirtballs who need hot lead therapy.

I'm not sure that this is a good comparison.

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 12:40PM

The vast majority of OWS have blocked traffic. Most have fought police.

Most people disdain mobs. Good. They should.

Brian Mc| 12.16.11 @ 8:12AM

A vote for liberalism is a vote for the belief that together, we can all defeat reality. It all started with the simple phrase, "Everyone gets a trophy".

With those simple, yet evil words this country has been in a free-fall that has given us a demented and ignorant voting block looking for anyone but themselves to get them what they deserve. Of course, what they deserve, in reality, differs from what they deserve in their mind's eye due to this failed upbringing. The indoctrination process foisted upon our young who found no counter for it at home and quite possibly found nothing but reinforcement for it there, are pounding the OWS drums as we speak.

To be empowered; to be productive and no matter how small the personal industry, a viable portion of the overall community used to be something worthy of effort. Those that weren't were deemed outcasts and/or outlaws. Not anymore; now they are trumpeted and justified in a media that prides itself in all their 'little' trophies.

Outward materialism is the key and it is constantly rammed down our throats with each change of the channel, or flip of the page, or click of the mouse. Inner happiness and fortitude and self-determination are no longer viable options so that envy, jealousy and vengefulness against everything good, decent and proper has become the norm in their eyes. This guy over here doesn't have a 'god' so, nobody gets a 'god'. IF everyone can't have a BMW, then, no one gets to have one. Trophies for all run amock. Contentment in one's own efforts no longer is an option when there is a government that will make all the effort in our stead...and those that suffer from the effort, well, serves them right. And who's the champion right now, of this mindset? The one we elect every four years to be above it all, that's who.

I would rather be the poorest member of this great land than the richest member of the Medicis of the fifteenth century but, there is no happiness in that, or sadness, but thinking makes it so.

God, please help us and continue to bless America.

DanH in Alaska| 12.16.11 @ 5:31PM

Brian - I'm so stealing your first sentance lol

Brian Mc| 12.17.11 @ 6:26AM

You run with it, DanH! I probably read it here, first.

R W Johnson| 12.16.11 @ 8:32AM

Whatever Gallup says, you can be sure they skewed the results 15 - 20 pct in the libs favor.

Timothy L. Pennell| 12.16.11 @ 9:09AM

1st Rule of Dictatorship: Keep your Army well paid, and they will take to the Streets, for you, when you give the order.

So, what do ya do, when ya got NOTHING? You do what any Cornered Animal would do. You lash out. You go on the Attack. You REVEAL yourself, for what you are.

It never is.

Louis Jenkins| 12.16.11 @ 10:33AM

Timothy:

And he has S. 1867 on his side now. A lot of you guys say it won't happen, common citizens being shipped off to Gitmo or to the FEMA camps, but it will. Congress, completely a nation unto itself, layed the ground work. Obama, with his fits of lying, will institute it. We have no Rights-all on the day that guaranteed our Rights. Get ready people, it will not be pretty.

Timothy L. Pennell| 12.16.11 @ 11:13AM

Wait a minute. "It will not be pretty"? That's what I said. You're Copying me!

Hey! DTOM. Are you seeing this? He's copying me. Triple L. Are you seeing this? Alan Brooks. Tell Ex-Governor McGreevy to untie you, and take your blindfold off, and the Ball Gag out of your mouth, and look at this. Can you believe it?

I'm calling my Mother.

Buck Ofama| 12.16.11 @ 9:20AM

We must RID the white house of the vermin infestation at any cost.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 11:12AM

what a great addition to our discussion. another republican hater what a surprise .

John Navratil| 12.16.11 @ 12:16PM

pggyverdad,

What did you expect? Woodstock?

I case you didn't know, conservatives actually hold this President in deep disdain. I speak for myself when I suggest that I find his personal opportunism distasteful and would likely not spend any time with him socially. I find his ideals and his efforts deeply damaging to this country and unforgivable. I'll go so far as to say that in my lifetime, I've lived through three of the five (serious historians may quibble) worst Presidents to have ever existed. The erstwhile worst living ex-President is no longer. Is that hate?

Hate is a firebomb you of the left like to hurl. It's so practiced that it simply flows from your lips like water. Did we see examples of rage at the Tea Party rallies like we say at the OWS rallies? Any rapes, robberies, or justice committees?

Your feigned incredulity is tiresome - it's a trope worn through. But welcome to the forum.

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 12:44PM

I think you meant "Obama Hater" ... next time, just use the word MAJORITY.

The One is DONE.

He's a LOSER: Loser of Egypt, loser of drones, loser of re-election ... God willing....

JP| 12.16.11 @ 9:21AM

And while the GOP candidates debated, the House passed SOPA (a gift to the moribund motion picture industry. It was sponsored by a Republican, no less), and the Senate gave the federal government the authority to imprison indefinitley and without due process any American it sees fit. This nugget was sponsored by Lindsay Graham and John McCain.

This begs the question of why conservatives continue to pin thier hopes on the GOP? If this is what a future GOP majority has in store, why not keep Obama and Reid in power?

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 12:45PM

Step 1: Complete PURGE of "Progressives"

Step 2: Complete PURGE of RINO's

We're still on Step 1....

nick| 12.16.11 @ 2:10PM

Handout to an obsolete industry? Violation of civil liberties? Sounds conservative to me, I don't know what your problem is.

Bob K.| 12.16.11 @ 9:22AM

Have we forgotten "Affirmative Action" and it's various class gradations based on Race and Gender? Don't oversimplify this Class Warfare issue. It is far more complicated in the matters of the divisions of jobs and wages than it is in the matter of divisions based on economic wealth.

bull-gator| 12.16.11 @ 9:27AM

We all will be "have nots" if this jerk is re-elected. That's what his agenda amounts to. The "have nots" (you and me) bowing and scraping to the elitist ruling class (them). Time for Real Change. Gov Perry/Gov Walker in 2012.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 9:59AM

er er er er you really support perry . perry says he holds human life sacred yet he executed 245 people and he recieved applause from republicans. is this the man you want in the white house ? he can barely utter a sentence let alone how many judges are on the supreme court .

VBMax| 12.16.11 @ 10:29AM

You don't know the difference between innocent life and murderers?

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 11:08AM

taking a life is taking a life hypocrite

VBMax| 12.16.11 @ 11:39AM

You need more critical thinking skills.

Marcturus| 12.16.11 @ 11:52AM

Superb example of Emerson's point about foolish consistency being the hobgoblin of little minds.

John Navratil| 12.16.11 @ 12:17PM

pggyverdad,

And guilt or innocence has no meaning to a liberal!

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 12:48PM

I attack you with a knife. We wrestle for it.

Is "taking a life" still "taking a life" ... idiot?

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 12:46PM

And yet he's STILL light years better than Obama. Go figure....

Teaghan| 12.16.11 @ 2:01PM

At least he can make a coherent sentence without needing 2 telepromters, looking like he's watching a match at Wimbilton.

bluecollarbytes| 12.16.11 @ 9:28AM

Even as a loosely-unorganized movement, the 'tea party' has been clear about what it wants on several levels- a return to American ideals, which is not a place to arrive at, but an ongoing struggle which has to compete with human failings.

tea party says cut spending, reduce govt interference in the private sectors, hold elected officials And their bureaucrats accountable, and hold individuals more accountable for their own welfare.

the occupiers are really united in one thing- reelecting Barack Obama.

Anthony| 12.16.11 @ 9:32AM

Well the good news is that Chris Hitchens is probably kicking Saul Alinsky's ass somewhere, telling him that his prize protegee, Obozo, has exposed the failures of class warfare and Marxism once and for all.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 9:54AM

you wouldnt know a marxist if he sat on your face . if it is class warfare to ask the wealthy to pay more to help with the deficit or payroll tax extension then we need class warfare . two thirds of americans support this look it up.

JacintoKid| 12.16.11 @ 10:15AM

I bet you'd love it if a Marxist sat on your face. Most of us couldn't stand the smell.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 10:36AM

do you know what a marxist is ? tell us again why the wealthy cant pay a little more in taxes ? i we hear and read is whining from your side . even the wealthy think they should pay more .

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 12:48PM

Obama's a Marxist. Duh.

Chinquapin| 12.16.11 @ 2:07PM

A Marxist would say, "Why can't the wealthy pay a little more in taxes?"

Teaghan| 12.16.11 @ 2:17PM

In the interest of "fairness" , the left's favorite word and weapon, I suggest those that want to pay more, WRITE A CHECK MADE OUT TO THE US TREASURY. Little Timmy Geitner will be more than happy to accept your guilt money.

Nancy in NC| 12.16.11 @ 3:40PM

Yep, I know what a Marxist is. Do you? "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" Does that strike a bell?

And exactly what is stopping Warren Buffett from paying more in taxes? More to the point, what is stopping him from paying what he actually owes?

How much do you want the wealthy to pay? The wealthy already support the country. Besides, revenue isn't the problem. Regardless how much is NOT in the treasury, the Dims will spend more. That's what they love to do.

MikeG| 12.16.11 @ 11:43PM

What percentage of you income do you pay in taxes, pggy?

Stammon| 12.16.11 @ 10:38AM

How much more? And when is enough enough? It's always easy to ask for more, it's hard to know when enough is too much.

Occam's Tool| 12.20.11 @ 1:41AM

50%, of Americans, roughly, don't pay taxes, peggy. 2/3 of Americans supporting this, therefore, includes the definite minority of those that pay taxes.

JacintoKid| 12.16.11 @ 10:07AM

I hope to God (yes, i said god) the author is correct that this marxist crap is turning off most voters. If we ever get to the point where this BS tactic works, it's game over.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 10:16AM

please explain why the wealthy cant be taxed a little more to help with the deficit or payroll tax extension .

Gerard| 12.16.11 @ 10:32AM

When is enough taxes enough? 50 percent of ones income? 70? 80 percent? What percentage of the fruits of one's labor would satisfy you? How about CUTTING GOVENMENT spending? How about drilling our own oil? jow about employing tax paying Americans instead of illegals? That takes care of a few things at one...It REDUCES unemployment and unemployment transfer payments from taxpayers to the unemployed. The new workers, now PAY tax instead of "receive" tax dollars, and those American workers recycle thier EARNED dollars back in t US commerce and do NOT send it to othercountries..one last benefit..A working man or woman's personal esteem will rocket from going from dependence to self sustenance..Is this that difficult to understand? CUT WASTEFUL Government spending..Drill our OWN AMERICAN oiL an employ AMERICANS in that field...

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 10:42AM

taxes should be raised from 35 to 39% percent on the wealthy ? a wealthy man said it would affect him as if a fly landed on his leg to pay a little more . how will cutting government spending which shrinks the economy help the economy ? its a mystery .

Marcturus| 12.16.11 @ 11:53AM

More hobgoblins

Teaghan| 12.16.11 @ 2:18PM

more idiocy.

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 12:50PM

Hey punk -- I GET PAID TO HELP PEOPLE OFFSHORE THEIR INCOME AND PAY NO TAXES.

Know what else? IT'S LEGAL. NOT A G'DAMN THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

Sit down. Eat your peas.

Mike| 12.16.11 @ 1:55PM

Then that wealthy man should pay a little more. Or better yet donate his time and money to a worthwhile charity, like conservatives do. The problem with your hair brained solution, as you have probably been told countless times, is that govenments NEVER use increased tax money to pay down anything. They use it to buy votes. 100 times out of 100. Google Solyndra and LightSquared for recent perfect examples. What on earth makes you think that this time they really, really mean it. If you truly believe that when the government takes one dollar out of the economy, keeps 50 cents and "spends" the remaining 50 cents on their friends that it "grows the economy" then you are beyond hope.

gerard| 12.17.11 @ 6:54PM

Government spending crowds out private spending and investment. Cutting Government spending will put more money into the private,free economy, and will not distort price discovery and supply and demand. Government spending is, in many cases, transfer of wealth from taxpayers to recipients. Just as President Clinton cut way back on welfare, Pres obama should do the same. Couple that with a dismissal of illegal aliens currently 12 million strong and working here, will open those jobs to currently unemployed, recipeints of government assistance. They will thus, have jobs to apply for, work, pay taxes, have increased self esteem, and pay taxes, rather than "take" from the government.

George S| 12.16.11 @ 12:45PM

Okay, I'll "explain"...

According to the IRS data for 2009, there were 236,000 returns filed with an income above a million dollars. The total reported income on those returns was 727 billion dollars.

Let's tax those people at 100%, that is, take everything -- not just a "little bit more". What will that do to improve your life? What will that do to decrease the deficit?

The federal budget this year is 3.7 trillion dollars. That comes out to 10 billion a day. Confiscating the 727 billion of the millionaires would fund Obama for 73 days.

73 days. What about the rest of the year? Well, back to the same data... the adjusted gross income of the Democrat-defined millionaires -- those earning over $200,000 --- was 2 trillion dollars in 2009. If Obama takes ALL THEIR MONEY that would run the government for 200 days. Or from January 1st 2012 to July 19, 2012. What about the rest of the year?

In 2010, the Fortune 500 made a total profit of 391 billion dollars. Let's take all of that, too!! (We're Marxist, can't help ourselves). That would fund the government for another 39 days, or until October 17, 2012. What about the rest of the year? Who is left?

Did I answer your question? Now maybe you can answer mine from above.

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 12:52PM

And don't forget -- the following year only baseball players and actors wouldn't have magically reduced their income under $1 million.

DRed| 12.16.11 @ 1:39PM

All accumulation, therefore, of personal property, beyond what a man's own hands produce, is derived to him by living in society; and he owes on every principle of justice, of gratitude, and of civilization, a part of that accumulation back again to society from whence the whole came.

George S| 12.16.11 @ 2:33PM

Quite poignant, DRed. However the people you are aiming that at have already paid back society. Take Bill Gates, for example. He has accumulated billions because millions of people paid him hundreds of dollars for his products. In other words, they exchanged labor with him when they purchase Windows and Office. People then use those products to improve and enrich their own lives, so the exchange is mutually beneficial.

The more apt target of that quote is, say, Sen. John Kerry. Here is a man who spends quite a lot of money and lives a life that belies his contribution to society (yet piously tells us we have to sacrifice our labors by giving back). Kerry is able to live that lifestyle because of the countless bottles of Heinz ketchup that have been produced and sold. People gladly purchase ketchup because they enjoy it; it makes their lives better by making food more enjoyable. But Kerry had nothing to do with contributing to that enjoyment.

Don't look at it as money that is accumulated. Instead, look at it from the point of view that the computer and software you posted from is a direct exchange of money between you and Gates or Jobs or Ellison or Dell. That is what they have "given back to society".

DRed| 12.16.11 @ 3:13PM

Are you arguing in favor of higher capital gains taxes and larger estate taxes? That's what it sounds like. Makes sense to me, but it's an unusual argument to hear at this website.

Nancy in NC| 12.16.11 @ 3:44PM

Exactly. The founders never intended that we be taxed on our labor.

George S| 12.16.11 @ 4:08PM

DRed, I do favor an estate tax only when an heir cashes in an enterprise (business). That is the equivalent of donated money. However, I favor a zero estate tax when the heir continues the business because it is no different than hiring a CEO or president. As far as money handed down in wills and estates (real property, cash, stocks, bonds, etc.) then it is none of the government's business. That money was earned and taxed at many levels -- corporate, personal, capital gains and social security and Medicare.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 6:53PM

The Founders taxed inheritance - and you don't believe in the Founders? Seriously?

MikeG| 12.16.11 @ 8:47PM

Purp, there you go again lying. The "founders taxed inheritance?" There was no national inheritance tax imposed by the founders. There still isn't, nitwit, it is a federal estate tax. Some states may have had an inheritance tax, but not the federal government in 1789. Why do you keep making up these so called facts?

Occam's Tool| 12.20.11 @ 1:50AM

Because it takes away money from private job creation, peggy. Your problem is a failure to pass algebra.

For example, if X is the size of the American economy under Carter and Y is the American econmy's size under reaganat the end of Reagan, and Y is equal to 5 X (actually, I think it was more like 10X), then .28 times Y is greater than .70 times X.

Obviously, this is simplification, but the point remains that governemnt spending takes away from productive activity. It should therefore be restricted to what is necessary, and no more.

Jim| 12.16.11 @ 10:11AM

We had better hope that the polls are a true indicator of the mood of the country. I have my doubts. There had better be a very big sleeping giant out there to overcome the goliath that is tarnishing the house of freedom and liberty. We are now seeing on display the fruits of decades of progressive beliefs. In 2010 we made a stand and cast the first stone against tryanny. That has done some good. We have stymied the run to ruin by this party of thiefs.
It will be an epic battle. It will be the haves versus the have nots no doubt about it. Millions of folks who rely on "obama's stash" won't give a damn on what it is doing to the country. No polls, or intellectual discussion will sway these useful idiots. Black American, for some reason a majority of them just cannot admit that the left has done nothing for them but to continue diminishing any hope of upward mobility. The poor will be used as pawns. The msm will make sure the masses hear of the impending doom of these poor folks if a conservative gets into office. Seniors will hear lies and distortion about SS and Medicare. Illegals, well they shouldn't even have skin in the game, but you can bet they will have their say. Let us not forget the unions and the employees of the federal government. Speaking of skin in the game, they will not be thrilled to see a job cutting conservative win.
These numbers add up. Do we have the votes to overcome them? It will probably take 2 votes to 1 to overcome the voter fraud. I am thinking the sleeping giant doesn't have those kind of numbers, especially this year.
I hope Ross is right and I am wrong

Gerard| 12.16.11 @ 10:19AM

If i were a 20 someting this is what would get my goat:
1: we fight in the Middle East for OIL becsue we wont drill our own, or...use the XL Pipelone from Canada
2: Outrageous student loan debt dueto outrageous tuition ror degress that are in some cases...useless
3: Repubs and Dems aid and abet illegal immigration,as does the Wall St Journal editorialists..The Dems because of future liberal voters and the Repubs for cheap labor. We have 14 million unemployed Americans...and 12 million illegals "working" here...
4: Failure to overhaul entitlements. medicare and social security will bankrupt this country and bury our kids in debt. eform it now.
5: Outsourcing jobs and entire industires and the advanced technology...to overseas countires. Solution? Inventivize these US companies to manufacure here, and cut the red tape, taxes and regulations
6: As stated ine tis article..keynesian ideas do ot work. Reaganomics will unlock our American spirit onve we cut taxes and cut Government spending, which is crowding out and inhibiting free market growth..the only place where producing jobs are created. Govt jobs "regulate" "tax" and are a drag on taxpayers in general.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 5:20PM

Keynesian Economics created a prosperous America, until Reaganomics put us in decline. We didn't know it at the time, but the data is clear. Without the partnership of government and business, the middle class loses. And the middle class is the engine of prosperity, not the 1%. As goes the middle class, so goes America and the decline in both tracks very closely with each other. That's a fact. Hayek was a charlatan along with Ayn Rand who just wanted to sell books - not unlike Ann Coultergeist today.

chuck| 12.16.11 @ 8:06PM

Keynesian economics does not work, has never worked, and will never work. Even Keynes realized the error of his ways shortly before he died.

You're an idiot, purpleguy.

axbucxdu| 12.19.11 @ 12:07AM

Best laugh of the week:"Keynesian Economics created a prosperous America, until Reaganomics put us in decline..."

Exhibit A of the stupidity that can only be committed by the otherwise intelligent. Keynesian "Economics" gave us more than 200T$ in unfunded liabilities. Sounds like a road to serfdom to me. That's a lot of water for you and Keynes to carry there, purp.

arlo price| 12.16.11 @ 10:21AM

The obamagedon PIMP thugocracy chugs along......

Purr-fect and further organize the protest movement (ows) during the winter; start rolling it out in the spring so that it gathers momentum during the summer and by fall (along with the middle east blowing up ($200 @ barrel oil)) a 'perfect storm' has developed to declare marshal law and suspend elections.

Let's Roll

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 10:21AM

please explain why obama is ahead of all republican candidates in all national polls ? how will a job cutting conservative help raise the unemployment numbers ? what exactly have the republicans done to help the poor and the middle class ?

Gerard| 12.16.11 @ 10:35AM

Answer: do some research into the phenomenon known as REAGANOMICS and you will see the answer.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 10:55AM

trickle down doesnt work . wages in this country have been flat while income for the top has gone up 250 % 400 people control more wealth then 140 million . it hasnt tricked down . these are facts .

gerard| 12.17.11 @ 7:07PM

How do you explain the 25 year economic expansion that began just about the time Reagan instituted Reaganomics please? Here is a fact.
Incomes across the board are up the last 30 years.
Incomes are. that is indisputable.
I, we, you...have luxuries the generation before us could not even imagine.
Look around your own home. Big screen TV?
Air conditioning? Plenty to eat? 1 car? 2? 3?
The fact is, ALL Americans are earning more than they were 10 years ag.
I do NOT envy peoplelike Bill gates, Scott McNeely, Warren Buffet...None of them.
They make stuff, they earned it, it is theirs. The Government alrready takes over 1/2 in taxes,Medicare,Social ecurity State an Local taxes. I bet many of them, surely gates, gives millions upon millions to charity.
My money is on Gates doing it better than the US Government.
The top 1% pays, what? 42,45% of ALL income tax?
I wish I was one of them. it is clear at my age, that I will not be, but the opportunity was there.
The top 1% pay lots of tax, they most likely (Steve Jobs) have revolutionized life on planet earth, employ many people, and that doesn't trickle, it explodes across the economy. Redistirbution will clearly not work. That is an "un" incentive". What rational person will take risks and work 18 hour days if they know that the fruit of their labor will penalize them, and reward the least worker?
That is what happened in the USSR.

Stammon| 12.16.11 @ 10:43AM

The vast majority of small business owners are Republicans. The vast majority of wealthy stockbrokers donated to Obama. Right now the "job cutting conservative"s are trying to build business in this country, like the pipeline, as if you didn't notice.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 11:04AM

what does building the pipeline have to do with extending the payroll tax holiday ? this issue should be considered seperately. isnt this really more of republican obstructionism.

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 12:56PM

No, it's a poison dart launched at the eyeball of the POTUS (Punk of the United States). For good reason. That Hollow Sham is all tactics, no results.

Mantra 1: Hope and Change
Mantra 982: Pass this bill!
Mantra 983: We can't wait!
Mantra 984: Fair share!

Only GREEDY HATERS support confiscation of others wealth. The reason Obomba's mantras aren't working is REAL AMERICANS AREN'T STEEPED IN ENVY.

We find envy disgusting. Just look at the rebuttals to your disgusting posts!

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 4:22PM

americans believe in fairness . explain again why the wealthy cant pay more in taxes to help with the deficit and the payroll tax extension . two thirds of americans are for this look it up .

Jmulcahy| 12.16.11 @ 9:14PM

Miss Verdad,

Please define fairness. We have the most progressive tax system for individual taxpayers in the OECD, how much more progressive would you like to see it get to?

nick| 12.16.11 @ 2:16PM

Look at you, vilifying stockbrokers in your own special way... looks like the OWS rhetoric has worked on you.

Jim| 12.16.11 @ 11:35AM

You are right about the polls and the annoited one leading in them. However I can still hear pelosi stating unequivocally that the House would remain dim in 2010. So we will have to wait. Unemployment? Whatever we are doing now, don't think it is doing real well, is it? A conservative will attempt to create a climate that encourages job growth. Low taxes, eliminate strangling regulations, avoid unions that have no other purpose than to raise cost of production and support dims. The only job cutting a conservative would do would be to eliminate wasteful, duplicated government departments and jobs. Bozo will have to do that soon to avoid total economic collapse. There aint enough tax dollars via the millionaires to support his desire to fundamentally transform America. Republicans have given me a job and I am in the middle class. If the obuzzard continues with his anti capitalist agenda that job maybe in jeopardy. The poor. There will always be the poor and needy. That is why we have charitable foundations, churches, etc. The conservatives are better known for charity then the thieving liberals. I believe you find evidence of that if you look. But a worthless, no good, lazy, piece of human filth who expects my tax dollars to defray their living expenses is not poor. They are parasites and deserve their squalor. The hard working poor is another story. But lately I have heard these folks have Ipads, HD TVs, laptops, and some live in million dollar estates and drive nice cars. This courtesy of the welfare state created by.. wait for it... liberals and their insane policies. However, I have heard that the poverty level has went up under the thief in chief. Is that the hope and change you were counting on? I will take a conservative any day.

Teaghan| 12.16.11 @ 2:22PM

Get out of the way of private businesses, lower taxes and quit regulating the hell out of overyone. Then jobs appear to help the poor and middle class. They need jobs, not handouts.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 6:56PM

They need good jobs, not menial labor in dirty, unsafe, rotten conditions (like China) with more than the minimum wage (which btw, business would be glad to do away with).

MikeG| 12.16.11 @ 8:48PM

How many have you hired in your fortune 10 company? Since you are highly paid, what percentage of your income do you pay in income tax?

Typical White Person| 12.16.11 @ 10:23AM

Dear Mr. President,

It is none of your damn business how much money I make.

Sincerely, Typical White Person

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 10:59AM

if your wealthy for the good of the country you might have to pay more what a crybaby . you dont have to pay your taxes white person . you might find someone you really like in prison.

John Navratil| 12.16.11 @ 12:21PM

pggyverdad,

I'll predict that you will not last here. If I see you posting in the New Year, I'll be very surprised. You are out of your depth.

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 12:59PM

Anybody who wants to offshore their wealth and reduce or eliminate their income tax -- legally -- let me know. I'll make it happen.

Miss Pggy, you can watch ... as long as we can videotape your angst and agony....

rhoetus| 12.16.11 @ 12:49PM

Why should we have a progressive income tax? This is pure theft and political greed, manipulation and demagoguery. The Congress and President use the budget as a slush fund to buy votes from special interests namely those who benefit from government. Like the "Broken Window" example it is robing Peter to pay Paul. We have too many receiving benefits at the producers/ taxpayers' expense.

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 1:02PM

Repeal the 16th Amendment -- an affront to the Framers of the Constitution.

N.B. -- Let's not forget the Income Tax was first put in by "Progressives" to fund the government ... BECAUSE THEY PROHIBITED ALCOHOL -- MANDATED SOBRIETY -- FOR EACH AND EVERY AMERICAN, and they "needed" to replace the lost revenue from excise tax (almost half the total).

"Progressives" are ANYTHING BUT believers in LIBERTY.

nick| 12.16.11 @ 2:19PM

Did you go to public schools? Because then it kind of is.

I'd be nothing without the handout of public education. (K-12 and University) People in the past had their money taxed and it was given to me in the form of public school. I did nothing to earn it.

Now, I have a job and pay federal income tax. It's only fair that I do so because I would be nothing without the handout that was my education.

VBMax| 12.16.11 @ 3:23PM

The original concept was that the public schools would create a benefit to society by churning out well educated citizens. It has betrayed its trust by focusing on social engineering of the worst sort.
n.b. the attitude of the OWS mob, products of our public school system.

nick| 12.16.11 @ 4:09PM

Public schools do create a benefit to society by churning out well educated citizens. I'm an example.

Regardless, as a conservative, shouldn't you be opposed to the "original concept" you described, because the kids who attend did not work to earn the right to be there?

VBMax| 12.16.11 @ 6:18PM

No, not everyone can afford to send their kids to private school or homeschool them. So, you have a wrong idea about what conservatives will support. I supported public schools as long as they did what they were established to do: teach our kids basics and marketable skills. The payback is that they would become contributing members to the economy and society. Once the schools changed their focus to social engineering and political indoctrination I no longer supported them..

nick| 12.17.11 @ 9:02AM

"No, not everyone can afford to send their kids to private school or homeschool them. "

so you support a free government giveaway from richer people because some poorer people can't afford something. that sir, is the definition of liberal, redistribution of wealth, and fundamentally un-free market. i think you have the wrong idea of what conservatism is.

nick| 12.17.11 @ 9:03AM

That being said, I don't know how old you are, but I think you are being a bit paranoid about indoctrination. The schools still do what you describe. Hell, when I graduated High School and College, both public, I was a Republican.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 4:25PM

how has public education focused on social engineering ? please be specific .

CW| 12.16.11 @ 5:07PM

Ever heard of "The Story of Stuff"? Or algores "An Inconvenient Truth"? Both promote an anti-American view and are presented in schools, yet the other side of the story, or more accurately, a balanced view, is not presented.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 9:04PM

and you know that how ?

Brian Mc| 12.16.11 @ 5:18PM

You have got to be kidding. How about:
"Sally has two mommies"
"The sky is falling and the oceans are rising; all smart people agree"
"Darwin was a wonderful man...he helped us get rid of God in the schools and didn't even know it!"

You are either childless, an idiot, or both.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 10:30AM

This is not the same question as whether you are part of the 1% or the 99%. Ask the question the right way and you'll get a different answer.

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 1:03PM

I consider myself part of the 100%.

George S| 12.16.11 @ 1:33PM

I hear that 100% of the 99% want to be in the 1% but Marx could never figure out how to solve that equation.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 6:57PM

Dream on...

gerard| 12.18.11 @ 1:06PM

Well said George. One thing that has always puzzled me..Suppose the top 1% just "went away"...To Switzerland, Australia, the moon..wherever..
That would create a "new" 1% that is currently the top 5% or so? Suppose they left also. Then, the new top 1% would be the current top 80% and so on.
These straw men arguments against wealth is puzzling. Who grows up in the US and is told: hey,forget it..You're a loser and you always will be a loser with no hope. Don't even think about it or try to be a stunning success.. Is this what parents tell their kids???? My Mom never told me that. And I tell my kids the sky is the limit, and to shoot HIGH..Anything less than the moon is still better than zero.

Jobe| 12.16.11 @ 11:00AM

I continue to be chagrined by the fact that the republican hopefuls continue to soft pedal their criticisms of obama. His "stimulus" was a trillion dollar vote purchase, and his "stimulus junior" proposed earlier this year (Pass this bill) was a downpayment on the next election. If this worthless pile of dreck gets another term, even with a republican house and a republican senate, he will manage to complete the destruction of the nation. He must be stopped.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 11:23AM

destruction of the nation ? really ? how is our nation being destroyed ? there have been positive signs the economy is improving . are you hoping that happens or are you more interested in defeating obama ? whose side are you on ?

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 1:04PM

It's being destroyed by Barack Hussein Obama and his allies -- deficit spending the country into oblivion.

Do you live under a rock or something?

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 4:53PM

gee tom indications are that things are improving and we will take of the deficit . hardly as dire as you state . i bet your well off but dont want to pay one more cent in taxes to help with the deficit great patriot that you are .

The Knife| 12.16.11 @ 11:00AM

Purplegay, you are a complete and total idiot. When they realize that your ideas will make them part of the world wide 99%, they are not going think that is very good idea. Take your bankrupt ideas back into the basement and wait for your mama's call for dinner.

cicero| 12.16.11 @ 11:29AM

In 2008, Obama said what he thought would get him elected: "Elect me and I will give you hope, and will change the way the weaalth of the country is distributed". It worked. However, that is not what happened. He borrowed the country into penury to give to his base - government unionized workers, and Wall Street bankers who had backed him heavily. He is trying to sing the same song now. His problem is that he may not be able to fool the same people this time. The poor are still poor; more people have lost their homes (remember the Florida gal who thought Obama was going to make her mortgage and car payment?/); more people are unemployed (the unemployment numbers only went down because people are falling of unemployment benefits); and there are no jobs for those coming out school with huge debt.
The problem with promising the feed the tiger is that you had better feed him well, and keep feeding him. Because the tiger will eat.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 11:42AM

what do the gop candidates propose ? tax cuts to further shrink the economy ? cuts in entitlements ? more tax breaks for the wealthy non job creators ? why would people vote against their self interest ?

Thomas Paine| 12.16.11 @ 1:07PM

In the off chance that you are intellectually honest, here's your homework:

Research paper, EMPIRICAL DATA, on Size of Government vs. Impact on Growth.
http://www.house.gov/jec/growt.....nction.pdf

I'd add Canada 1995 as a FOURTH Event Study showing CUTTING SPENDING BOOSTS GROWTH.

Preview picture worth 1000 words HERE:
http://www.house.gov/jec/growth/function/exh-4.gif

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 3:46PM

tp states and fed govt have cut half million jobs since 2009 how this boosted growth ? can you be specific ?

George S| 12.16.11 @ 1:35PM

These people don't vote for their self-interest, they vote against mine.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 3:25PM

you can tell your a selfish greedy republican

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 6:57PM

And, so do you ... by voting Republicant !

MikeG| 12.16.11 @ 11:44PM

Purp and pggy, a lovely couple, or is it the same person?

Jack London| 12.16.11 @ 2:06PM

A much more interesting poll was last year when Americans were asked what they thought existing inequality in terms of wealth share is here. They grossly underestimated the actual extremes. And tellingly, when they were asked what a better wealth share would look like they picked shares that are very close to Sweden's.

It suits the right of course to continually lie about the facts. As Christopher Hitchens said:

'What better way for a ruling class to claim and hold power than to pose as the defenders of the nation.'

As American CEOs bank record salaries and share options, millions of others get slung in the trash.

George S| 12.16.11 @ 2:22PM

Then we, too, can lead the world in pocket knives, watches and chocolate.

Jack London| 12.16.11 @ 2:51PM

You forgot cuckoo clocks, George. But sadly you're in the wrong country – that would be Switzerland.

George S| 12.16.11 @ 3:51PM

I knew you'd get that :)

I guess that leaves meatball recipes...

Occam's Tool| 12.20.11 @ 1:52AM

Sweden has a below replacement birthrate and a very high suicide rate.

David| 12.16.11 @ 3:00PM

I don't believe the dems strategy is backfiring. As long as 47% pay zero income tax, with millions of those getting free money in the form of the Earned Income Tax Credit, and with millions more in the 10% federal income tax bracket, why should they do anything but support Bam Bam again.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 3:30PM

are you jealous of the poor who pay little or no federal income tax ? would you trade your wealth for theirs ? you are another selfish greedy republican crying about paying taxes . what a baby. where is your patriotism ?

Ross Kaminsky | 12.16.11 @ 7:24PM

This is not about "the poor" paying no tax. One cannot argue with a straight face that it's moral for nearly half of the nation to contribute nothing to national defense or even to entitlement programs (other than through payroll taxes.)

Ken (Old Texican)| 12.16.11 @ 3:04PM

Holy MOLEY! MUST WATCH!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

Scott Mayer | 12.16.11 @ 3:07PM

"Barack Obama has given the nation a tremendous object lesson by posing the federal government as the solution to all problems -- and then proving that it isn't."

Brilliant!!! The Republican nominee should latch onto that one.

Good article.

www.politiseeds.com

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 3:55PM

obama does not think government is the solution to all problems . where did you get that fox ? see if you can follow this . since the private sector is not creating jobs fast enough he wants the government to be the employer of last resort . the idea being to fund hiring of people to fix roads teach school etc. see this would put money in peoples pockets . they would spend it thus stimulating the economy ? i will be up to about midnight if you have any questions .

Oldefarte| 12.16.11 @ 4:23PM

Ross' editorial defines the difference between CAPITALISM and SOCIALISM [or between party platform of the Republican Party from that of the Democratic Party]. El Chosen [aka perpetual/professional student, turned socialist, turned Chicago community organizer, turned POTUS] One would like everyone to buy into the H&C bullexcrement of his political philosophy, but as the old saying goes, he's simply WEE-WEEING IN THE WIND!!!!!!!!

Freddie Fedup| 12.16.11 @ 4:29PM

Quoting a smiling Thomas Jefferson:"Whenever the people are well informed, they can be trusted with their own government;....whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights." Thank God for the Internet to inform the people....Thomas Jefferson thought the press would be the " guardians" against an all powerful government...he happily did not come across our very left leaning media dissembling to the population and instead they have become the guardians for Obama....but, the sleeping giant is asleep no more

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 6:59PM

You're right, Fixed News cannot control the electorate any longer. The great middle class, the 99%, have awakened and their wrath against the Republicant obstructionists will be swift and strong.

Freddie Fedup| 12.16.11 @ 4:29PM

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 4:45PM

its amazing how conservative doctrines have been proven wrong so often but thanks to fox and others they still believe. 400 people in our country control more wealth than 140 million yet you want us to believe that somehow the wealth has trickled down to us the 99 %.

Brian Mc| 12.16.11 @ 5:29PM

I would find it hard to believe you ever took a class concerning economics. The wealth was created and you insinuate that it was stolen.

I am lower middle class by anyone's standards but I'll be damned if I'll accept any handouts and really damned if the government has any right whatsoever to know how much money I make. Income tax is unconstiutional and the document had to be amended to make it so on the pretense that it was gonna effect the other guy. This country has been racing for the cliff ever since. Read "The Fall of Democracy".

"Thou shalt not covet thy neigbor's goods."

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 7:06PM

Who's talking about handouts? That's all you people ever talk about... you really are jealous of someone getting something for nothing, it's sick - because it isn't true. Most of the people you say don't pay taxes work very hard, but don't make enough to pay FEDERAL income tax, but they plenty of other taxes.
The government has the right given it by the Constitution to tax your income, so shut up about that. Just pay your share and be glad you aren't on the public dole. It's no picnic.
It is a proven fact that when income inequality becomes great enough, there is a social upheaval, and it has started - whether by the Tea Party or Occupy Wall Street - they are both sides of the same coin.

Brian Mc| 12.17.11 @ 6:32AM

Why don't you get it? The federal government has no right to enquire, "What's in your wallet?" if we were to base the argument on the original document. Your whole socialist dream/mightmare comes crashing down once we rid ourselves of the greatest threat to our Republic, the IRS. The sixteenth amendment is akin to a moustache on the Mona Lisa.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 9:01PM

more crying about taxes . poor baby . how will be able to keep your sorry self safe ,have roads for you to drive on with out taxes? you dont have to pay them brian . there is a man named bruno wanting to meet you in prison.

Brian Mc| 12.17.11 @ 6:12AM

More socialist utopia rubbish. Excise tax pays for roads...stay on subject. And, there's that liberal factoid rearing its ugly head, yet again, "It is a proven fact..."
Thanks for the input, Purp!

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 5:01PM

new ppp poll out state of new mexico obama is ahead of romney by 15 an ahead of newt by 17. democrat landside in 2012 ?

Ross Kaminsky | 12.16.11 @ 6:16PM

that poll is just of New Mexico, and as you say it's PPP, which tends to lean left. The same group says Obama is probably safe in Virginia, which I think is ridiculous. We'll see!

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 6:53PM

ross north carolina also . your party is in trouble . face it.

Brian Mc| 12.17.11 @ 6:17AM

Keep pushing; liberalism is in serious trouble. Face it. Let me take it a step further. Let's build a wall along the Mississippi. No one gets across once completed. Libs pick which side they want first. You see? Conservatives don't need liberalism: liberals must have conservatives to pay their way. Which side would you want to live on?

Freddie Fedup| 12.16.11 @ 7:03PM

Polls can be skewed to provide a positive outcome to a negative quantity....the real poll numbers will be 11/06/12, when it is "hast a la vista " Obama...and Good Morning America once again!

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 7:07PM

Remember to vote for your favorite Republicant on 11/12/12...

MikeG| 12.16.11 @ 8:50PM

Clever line, DimBulb. Make sure you and the dead voters show up on 12/12/12.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 8:54PM

are you going to vote for the serial flipflopper romney or the serial adulterer flipflopper newt ?

MikeG| 12.16.11 @ 10:24PM

"Serial Adulterer"? I thought you lefty Democrats vote for adulters/rapists like Clinton? Am I wrong?

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 11:01PM

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, but you do, you just pay lip service to morality and family values and still will vote for a serial adulterer - screwing around behind his wife who is sick with cancer with one wife. Then, screwing around behind the second wife while Impeaching Clinton - talk about morals in the toilet and hypocrisy ... are you seriously defending Gingrich? Really?

MikeG| 12.16.11 @ 11:38PM

So your answer,Purp, is yes. And using lip sevice while talking about Clinton is in poor taste.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 8:51PM

keep up your spirits . you have to because people know how pathetic your candidates are.

Purp| 12.16.11 @ 7:14PM

Ruh-Roh, Jobless claims lowest since May 2008 - just in time to take the economy off the table for Republicants to campaign on - then what will they talk about - Getting Osama Bin Laden? Oh that's done. Getting out of Iraq? Oh that's done.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/1...../index.htm

John Navratil| 12.16.11 @ 8:12PM

Purp,

It always good to stop digging. That the numbers have returned to a more normal level cannot be bad news for anyone. Now there is the matter of getting those unemployed back to work. I'm sure you have a plan.

For the data context you have omitted see: http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/lns14000000

Look back to 1982 and compare the recoveries. Notice the ups and downs of this one and the breadth of high unemployment. Specifically compare the "do nothing" Reagan recovery with the meddlesome one today.

No need to worry about us, we will still talk about the things that matter to a free society and a growing economy.

(May I suggest you adopt 'Scoobie Doo' as your next moniker. It fits.)

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 8:47PM

what is the gop plan to get people back to work ? more tax breaks for the wealthy and hope it trickles down ? doesnt work sorry. where are all those jobs boehner promised if the bush tax cuts were extended ?

Should Have Impeached| 12.16.11 @ 8:31PM

"...our nation did not become great by thinking like V.I. Lenin, Che Guevara, or Chairman Mao.>

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

pggyverdad| 12.16.11 @ 8:43PM

impeached on what grounds ? i cant wit to read your answer.

POST American| 12.16.11 @ 11:17PM

---- '90's Show' breakdown and Tavistock SAP OP----
------------------------RED ALERT!-------------------------

MEANWHILE, as Congress approves,
and the President signs into law the authorized 'disappearance'
of American citizens at home and abroad
-------while the collapse of American
sovereignty steams forward with 'Fast and Furious'
unprosecuted ---and 30 MILLION illegals about
to be handed stealth voting rights. . .

race_to_the_bottom| 12.17.11 @ 1:45AM

Polls like this prove nothing except that people and whole countries can be delusional. It is objective reality which counts; all the indices of social and economic wellbeing do not lie, and they have been heading south for three decades. Even the blind can see them. They are there for everyone to see. People who think there is no divide in society are simply wrong. Like two income families making 40k a year and fancy themselves "middle class".

But he author could easily be right. The public can easily be convinced the Wall Street darling Obama is a Marxist. And a Muslim too. And Iran has the bomb. And so forth.......

I wonder why the alienation index is through the roof.
http://www.harrisinteractive.c.....ReadCustom Default&mid=1508&ArticleId=861

Tenn Slim| 12.17.11 @ 8:05AM

FOLKS.
The polls do indeed tend to reflect the opines of the US Electorate. There is indeed a segment of folks that simply dont buy into the guts of the Lefts dedicated efforts to divide and conquer.
HOWEVER. When the voter marks his vote, alone in the booth, then the reality hits. His or Her own personal biases, prejudices, angst, anger, knowledge and at least 4 years worth of dealing with the MSM, AMS, AMT, Newt, Obama, Reid, Pelosi etal come to the fore. That mix will decide the vote choice.
No poll on earth, now or then, can come close to the personal feelings expressed by slashing a mark on a ballot.
Semper FI

pggyverdad| 12.17.11 @ 9:41AM

thats true polls do not replace the vote. it seems to me that when given a choice that voters will not vote against their self interest. cuts in entitlements are a sure loser for the gop . prove me wrong

David| 12.17.11 @ 11:13AM

pggyverdad and purp, you guys are fucking idiots. Let me tell you how it is. As long as I can say what I am about 2 of my own daughters, then I CAN AND WILL say it about the 47% who pay zero fed income taxes.

I have two daughters with two children each - both single mothers. All four of their children were born on the taxpayers dime. No prenatal costs..... no delivery costs......nothing.......and neither has paid a dime for health insurance. Now, take my co-worker who pays $981 a month to insurance cover his wife and children while his own coverage is paid by our employer. Can you imagine how he felt when his most recent child was born and in addition to paying his 981 per month, he had to dish out another 2,000+ out of pocket. DOES THAT SEEM FAIR TO F_CKIN MORONS OUT THERE.

Let me go further. Neither of my daughters makes a lot of money. Neither of them pays a dime in fed income taxes. Both of them get about 4,000 a year at tax time because of the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC). They use that money for whatever they want to buy - not for necessities. I'll say more ina minute - have to do some work now to pay my taxes.

David| 12.17.11 @ 11:55AM

To add to my above comments. At lease one of my daughters get about $520 a month on the Lone Star card here in Texas for FOOD. Not anything other than food. Can you imagine how well a mother and a 3 and 5 year old can eat on that amount of money. Let me tell you how well. Every Christmas Eve my children and grandchildren come over and I make a big bunch of all kinds of Italian food. Last year that was paid for by my daughter because there was so much money left on her Lone Star card that she had to use it up or lose it. At Thanksgiving the month before she went to her mother's house, and again, she paid for the food because she had do much left on her card. Now, how many millions of single mothers have the same type of freebies as my daughters to the extent that they can share those freebies with family and friends who DON'T NEED IT.

Everyone should pay something in Fed Income Taxes - AND THE EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT SHOULD BE ELIMINATED. IT IS OUTRIGHT THEFT BY OUR GOVERNMENT.

Bob| 12.17.11 @ 12:51PM

Very good analysis. Thanks for the excellent article. It's writers like this, and the comments that follow, that give me a shred of hope for our country. Tell me we are still Americans and not whatever the Marxist (I cannot bring myself to use his name) whats to "Transform" us into.

martin j smith| 12.17.11 @ 4:10PM

The candidate that I will most likely support is the one who says that they are against Socialism and for Free Market Capitalism. And, believe that our nation should be a leader morally for freedom around the world. That means no military intervention but statements of support such as Congressional and or Presidential remarks.

pggyverdad| 12.17.11 @ 11:37PM

you mean that free market capitalism that led us to the housing bubble and econmic trouble that has caused the mess were in ?

Dick Nome| 12.18.11 @ 9:07AM

You wouldn't know what a free market was if it kicked you in the ass. A free market to you and your ilk is one where everthing is free for you and paid for by somebody else.

Niniane| 12.17.11 @ 6:53PM

There are three types of people: Those who understand the danger of spending too much and running deficits, those who believe that since they still have checks in the checkbook they can keep spending, and those who understand that they need to cover account shortfalls, but know they can always borrow money from Ching-ching Wu next door. I fear the Obama camp falls easily into the last two categories.

POST American| 12.17.11 @ 10:10PM

---------------------FINAL WORD-----------------------

Psychopathic fractional reserve USURY,
having usurped the Constitutional Rule of Law
---and its unfolding of a FULL-spectrum
'SIR--veil---ants' and North Korean style
police state --with the stated aims of dissolving
American sovereignty, and installing a regime
of forced EUGENICS -----IS---THE---ISSUE.

------------------THE ONLY ISSUE---------------------

---------------HUAC/ Nuremberg 2012----------------

martin j smith| 12.18.11 @ 8:53AM

The trolls that have posted--( meaning Socialism ) and why don't trolls actually state that they believe in Socialism ? Obama most recently said he did. Goody for him. Now the, lety me me say that what we have now is a conglomerate of political forces that have created Crony Capitalism.
The pay to play regimen that has bankrupt this nation. I blame both the Republican establishment as well as the Socialists ( formerly called in my lexicon the Democrat ( ic ? ) party.
Under Obama our debt has grown to far greater depths than under GWB and believe me I have no brief for him. Obama has created the makings of a Totalitarian State and what ever complaints had or have about Bush, Obama is farrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
worse --very far. So far he circles the globe in Anti-American behavior. At home and abroad.
He tops Jimmy Carter as our worst President. Woopsi du. As far as I am concerned Obama and GWB are perfect together. Only no thank you for me. Those people who complain about "Capitalism " seem to ignore purposely or are ignorant of what Crony Capitalism means. In the case of the Obama administration it means if GE does not pay its "fairt share" of taxes. That is just okey dokey --A-OK. Cause they give big bucks to Obama. That is just one of numerous examples of Crony Capitalism.
Finally Trolls in my view I suspect as being payed operatives especially the ones working on the weekend.

Konnie| 12.19.11 @ 1:03AM

There is none so blind as he who will not see. My son and his wife got about SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS in ahem, "EARNED income tax credits." Excuse me, EARNED INCOME TAX CREDITS????? They didn't do a damn thing to EARN anything....Dad's a firefighter, mom stays at home, kids get FREE health AND dental care. Unbelieveable. Stupid me just brought up my son and did without. What the hell is wrong with this picture, people? But hey, America can afford this, right?

axbucxdu| 12.19.11 @ 8:33AM

BRIC govts are leading everyone off the dollar reservation. The something for nothing crowds on both the left and right are about to learn what America can actually afford without the widespread "acceptance" of the FRN. No offence, Konnie, but you were a fool for making do. Welcome to the club.

dentist coos bay | 12.19.11 @ 5:40AM

This is a great article. I am happy to see the report result is that people's aware about the parties divide and conquer rule. Such article should be published frequently for spreading the awareness among people.

wodiej| 12.19.11 @ 7:12AM

Great article. You can't unite people by dividing them. Many in the GOP establishment are doing that just so they can get their preferred candidate in instead of letting voters decide. That tells me we are on our own and neither party gives a rip about this country.

POST American| 12.19.11 @ 11:30PM

---------------------FINAL WORD-----------------------

STILL WAITING for A.S. to take up that
trifling matter of the NDAA writing into law
the authorized 'disappearance' of American
citizens at home and worldwide.

All this set before us on the 222nd anniversary
of the Bill of Rights.

All going down as the stealth 'A--MAL--GAME
ation' of the US and Globalist colapsed Mexico
goes for franchise slum CON-sumation.

All coming through as the unmentioned
Globalist-RED China sellout and TREASON
OP finishes off the economy.

AS Kim Jon-il is laid to rest, important to
take in, the ONLY other nation, in history!
to carry such a law on the books ---is,
in fact, NORTH KOREA.

---------------HUAC/ Nuremberg 2012----------------

Robert Weeks| 12.26.11 @ 5:26PM

The NDAA is only an adition to the patriot act. If you're worried about beinng detained by the government you need to take a long look at yourself and/or your actions. A normal American citizen that has nothing to hide has nothing to worry about. I'm an independent and a retired/disabled U.S.Army Veteran that isn't worried about my government coming and taking my guns or taking me to a undisclosed prison, because I have nothing to hide. If you have something or anything to hide you need to be worried.

beebop2| 12.23.11 @ 6:42AM

I have to admit to a bit of admiration for democrats this morning:

They know how to embrace their base whereas the is more interested in the "independents."

They embrace the "fringe" as in OWS while the right thinks that if they ignore the Tea Party they will go away.

I have a renewed sense of admiration for dems. Wouldn't vote for them but have to hand it to them. They know how to organize!

Robert Weeks| 12.26.11 @ 5:06PM

Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is very hard for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Matthew 19:23

Robert Weeks| 12.26.11 @ 5:09PM

Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." Matthew 19:21

Robert Weeks| 12.26.11 @ 5:11PM

I am an independent

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The debacle of this president’s administration is both a cause and a symptom of the decline of American values. Unless Congress impeaches him, that decline will go on unchecked. An eminent jurist surveys the damage and assesses the chances for the recovery of our culture.
Chuck McHagel

By George Neumayr

It won’t take long for conservatives to scratch this presidential wannabe off their 2008 scorecard.
The Legacy of Old John and Mother Fresh-Roasted

By Douglas Bartholomew
It’s the Best Time of the Year

By Mark Steyn

The American Christmas, like the songs that celebrate it, makes room for everybody under the rainbow. Is that why so many people seem to be hostile to it?
The Bush Crack-Up

By Brit Hume

Was the President done in by the economy, or by the politics of the economy?

The American Spectator

Political Hay

The Real Sleeping Giant

About the Author

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