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Newt Misses His Moment

By on 11.23.11 @ 6:11AM

He thinks “strategically” about everything except his own campaign.

Newt Gingrich likes to talk about the need for “strategic” thinking on this or that big issue. Unfortunately, his strategic mind doesn’t apply to his own campaign. What exactly is his strategy to beat Mitt Romney? Judging by his performance at Tuesday’s CNN debate on national security issues, that is one subject to which he has not given much thought.

As usual, he displayed an impressively detailed grasp of the issues and more intellectual firepower than his opponents — not a terribly difficult feat in this field — but he missed the chance to cast himself as a compelling conservative alternative to Romney. Does he want to win the race or just be the smartest person in it? It would seem the latter. He prefers to play the Olympian overseer at debates, sharply evaluating the questions of moderators (Wolf Blitzer got off easy in this one and even received a pat or two on the head from Newt) while doling out compliments to his competitors and making his own expansive points.

Were Gingrich strategically focused on scooping up primary voters discontented with Romney, surely he would have said something about Romney’s past and present liberalism. He didn’t say a word. Romney had a so-so debate performance, but it probably doesn’t matter, since Gingrich didn’t bother to engage him.

Helping Romney even more was that Gingrich decided to use a national security debate to remind conservatives of the nuances of his “humane” approach to illegal immigration — a lecture, for whatever its merits, conservative primary voters probably don’t want to hear and particularly not in the scolding tone in which Newt delivered it. Perhaps Reagan could get away with a point like that but not Newt, who fell into the same pit Perry did. That is, in a previous debate, Perry had called anti-amnesty conservatives heartless. In this one, Newt suggested that they lacked family values, as a tough deportation policy would mean breaking up settled families.

Maybe Newt deserves praise for not caring about offending his audience and defending a policy he considers sound, but the upshot of that debate moment is that conservative primary voters who were eagerly shopping for someone other than Romney won’t gravitate to his campaign. Illegal immigration is a difficult issue to finesse — an issue to which Gingrich’s occasionally grating and sanctimonious style does not lend itself.

Just as Newt alienated conservatives with his holier-than-thou approach to Paul Ryan’s plan to reform Medicare (first calling it “right-wing social engineering” before supporting it after several throat-clearing qualifiers), so now he alienates them with his holier-than-thou approach to illegal immigration. Romney took advantage of Newt’s little sermonette by reminding the audience that he staunchly opposed amnesty in any of its guises.

The other candidates didn’t make up any ground on Romney either. One could hear the air going out of Herman Cain’s balloon, who offered mainly unimpressive answers and at one point botched Blitzer’s name. Perry seemed less witless but more desperate, throwing out as many bold but half-baked proposals that he could remember — a no-fly zone over Syria, a half-time legislature, zeroed-out foreign aid budgets, a “Monroe Doctrine for the 21th Century,” etc. Michele Bachman threw one elbow at Perry for these straining attempts to recover his relevance, calling him “highly naïve.”

The fever of “isolationism” which liberal pundits feared was coursing through the GOP (after Romney at a previous debate said that he opposed fighting other people’s civil wars for them) seems to have passed. Romney said that America should pull backwards countries into “modernity.” Rick Santorum told AEI questioner Paul Wolfowitz that he agreed with global aid to Third World countries. Ron Paul challenged these points, but most of the candidates on stage seemed ready to continue Bush-era policies. AEI, one of the sponsors of the debate, must have been pleased with most of the answers. Herman Cain should now be able to say that he is familiar with the “neoconservative movement.”

Gingrich clamored for a more “strategic” approach to toppling the regime in Iran, but the more pressing problem facing him now is his lack of strategy before Iowa.

About the Author

George Neumayr, a contributing editor to The American Spectator, is co-author, with Phyllis Schlafly, of the new book, No Higher Power: Obama’s War on Religious Freedom.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (258) |

Clint| 11.23.11 @ 6:25AM

" The New Hampshire Gazette

The Chickenhawk Hall Of Shame

name:
Willard Mitt Romney
rank:
Chickenhawk First Class with Distinguished Fleeing Cross
date-of-birth:
March 12, 1947
home state:
Michigan
missed opportunity:
Vietnam War
excuse:
None to speak of
preferred activity:
Trying to talk people into becoming Mormons
occupation:
Climbing ambition's greased pole

When your daddy's a Governor and a Cabinet Secretary, it's amazing how your odds of being drafted diminish"

coal carrier| 11.23.11 @ 7:21AM

It looks, as if Newt is taking the same route as John Mcain and George W. Look at me, I am a compassionate conservative. Out of the 20 million illegal nationals that are here, how many fall into the category that he described? The subset group that have been here for 25 years and have established families. Does his concern also cover 5 years, 10 or 20 years? Where is the cutoff?

He also included in his preaching “they have been here for 25 years and have not broken any laws”. What is he talking about? That is the point. They did break the law. They came here illegally.

He sighted the immigration law that he helped pass under President Reagan that was abused. Are the people he is talking about now the group that broke that law? If they had immigrated here legally 25 years ago, there would be no question about them being citizens and part of the American family now.

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 9:07AM

I understand Newt's point, and I appreciate it. I'm in the construction business, know a lot of Hispanics, legal, illegal, even some who have obtained their citizenship.
A few years ago, I had a young man working for me, who was brought to this country by his parents when he was a year old. ILLEGALLY! He grew up here, spoke both English and Spanish fluently, and never knew of being anywhere but the US. He did something stupid, DUI or public intoxication, and got deported to a country that he did not know, had never remember being in, and knew no one there. His wife, child, brothers, sisters, and parents are all still here. How is this justice? He grew up here from no fault of his own. He did not, and could not ask his parents to bring him here at the age of 1. I ask again, how is justice served by sending this young man to Mexico?
There are 10's or 100's of thousands of similar cases, brought on by years of the Federal Government looking the other way at illegal immigration. Something needs to be done, secure the border, then decide what to do. I think Newt had a reasonable answer last night.

Maddox| 11.23.11 @ 9:16AM

Sad for that young man but he should look to his parents for the justice you feel he deserves. They should all be deported, he won't be alone in a strange country then.
I personally know dozens of construction workers who are unemployed or underpaid because illegal labor has damaged the industry. Where is their justice?

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 9:33AM

I've been in the construction industry all my life. The Federal Government, through CRA, Fannie, and Freddie, destroyed the housing industry.
I survived, and still survive in the industry, because I do the best work around, much better than the cheaper labor, and with less waste. I hate to sound heartless, but WTF, here goes. If your buddies got out competed, it's there own damned fault!

loulou| 11.23.11 @ 9:57AM

Your cheapest labor around leave bottles of urine and feces within the walls. Did you know that?

You're as much as a parasite as the illegal aliens--transferring the social costs of your cheap labor onto the taxpayers.

Anti-Newst| 11.24.11 @ 8:57PM

Newt out-smarted himself by trying to pander on amnesty...Romney has a much stronger position.

JR| 11.23.11 @ 9:57AM

Considering you have someone working for you without the proper documentation you should be heavily fined for it and charged with a crime.

DTOM| 11.23.11 @ 9:57AM

chuck;

My dad's paint subcontracting business went down 13 years ago. Why? Because his competitors hired illegals that joined the union. The competitors then worked those illegals twelve hour shifts and paid them eight hours' pay and benefits. The Americans working for my dad would have none of it, not that he asked them to, and my dad's company failed because twelve hours' work cost him fourteen hours pay. So is it really my dad's fault?

I sure hope your competition doesn't start doing this to you...

I want to call you a jerk, really I do. But I'm not going to. Just don't be so cocksure of how smart you are. Maybe you are just experiencing a run of good luck.

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 10:22AM

DTOM,

I respect you opinions, they are always clearly stated, and we agree on much.
Yes, I have used illegal labor in the past, out of necessity at a time when it was impossible to hire Americans for the job. Please just trust me on that point, I don't want to argue that now.
Even though they were illegals, I paid them top dollar, because they were worth it. I paid them for every hour they worked, paid them for vacations, and holidays too. I treated them the same way I treated everyone who ever worked for me, fairly, and with respect. I trained them with the methods that I developed over 25 years of experience to be the best, most efficient ways of doing things. It produced a better product for my builders and customers, with less material waste, so at a lower cost for materials, which offset a higher cost in my labor.
I'm sorry about your Dad's company, I was probably a little brash. There are always people who go for the lowest bid, and usually they get what they pay for. I always tell prospective customers that they can find someone who is cheaper, and someone who is more expensive, but I will do the work right the first time for a fair price. The formula seems to be working.

I do consider myself "lucky", and I thank the Good Lord every time the phone rings. For some reason, He seems to be looking out for me.

Again, I am truly sorry about your Dad's business, and I wish him the best in the future.

Chuck

loulou| 11.23.11 @ 10:33AM

If you're as smart as you think you are you should have been able to produce your superior product without BREAKING THE LAW. You're a cheater.

DTOM| 11.23.11 @ 10:50AM

Chuck,

Thanks for your thoughts. But loulou does have a point. We are all sinners, we just have to try harder. No stone in my hand.

I do hope your good luck continues. But good luck is usually when preparation meets opportunity. We do help in making our luck, He makes most of it. And we're wise to recognize that, too. So here's to your continued good luck.

My Dad doesn't have to worry about paint anymore, he's in heaven. Lucky him.

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 12:47PM

DTOM,

My condolences on your father, I'm sure he was a good man. I lost my father just before Christmas last year, and there's not a day that goes by that I don't wish I could talk to him just one more time, and tell him how much I appreciate everything he did for me.
I'll add a prayer for your dad when I am praying for mine.
Best wishes to you and yours, and have a safe and happy Thanksgiving.

Chuck

DTOM| 11.23.11 @ 1:10PM

And back at you, sir.

Happy Thanksgiving - God Bless!

Dmac| 11.23.11 @ 10:58AM

Chuck,
Did you pay into the social security system for those employees? Did you pay for their healthcare?

coal carrier| 11.23.11 @ 11:31AM

If the government was doing it’s job, you would have been fined or in jail. It sounds like you didn’t want to pay the union wage, so you opted for the easy way out. You are the magnet that they were talking about last night.
I lived in California for 20 years. I watched the situation get worse and worse. Every time I went to a Home Depot I saw contractors loading up their trucks and vans with day workers. I guess they were just unemployed high school dropouts. I’ll bet these contractors were paying all the taxes also. And I’m the Easter Bunny.

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 1:25PM

If the government was doing it's job, this would not be an issue. The border would have always been secured.
I'm from Georgia, and don't believe I've ever seen a union carpenter, and don't know anyone who has ever had one. We're a right to work state.
As far as cheap labor, a highly skilled carpenter is not going to work for $5 an hour. That goes for the Mexicans too. I paid top dollar, in fact the highest paid worker I ever had was a Mexican, and he was worth every dollar I paid him. No, I didn't provide health care for any of my workers. NONE. Not white, black, brown, American, Mexican, or anyone. Part of the deal. If they wanted health benefits, go somewhere else. If they wanted to work x hours for y pay per hour, then you got paid x times y. Simple concept. And yes, taxes were paid.
Don't believe me, don't care.

And i think you might need to examine your own prejudices.

Kingofthenet| 11.23.11 @ 5:33PM

Chuck, You don't think people Need Healthcare? In Construction? What if a guy gets hurt on the Job, do YOU pay his injuries, what if he becomes disabled? Do you even care? These aren't rare things in construction, Now if you tell me you pay such a wage that these 'independent' contractors can afford their own policy, that's fine otherwise you are a leech on society.

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 8:12PM

King,
I provide Workman's Comp. and General Liability Insurance. This covers any injury on the job, and covers myself for any damages that someone not in my employ might receive on my job. I believe the question was concerning personal health insurance, which I do not provide. On my job, covered, not on my job, not my responsibility.

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 8:15PM

And please, King, make sure you know the facts before you call people a leech on society. I expect no one to take care of me, certainly not the government.

chuck| 11.24.11 @ 8:54AM

King,
One more thought on your calling me a "leech on society". Over the past, almost 30 years now, I have provided employment for several hundred men, 95% of them were Americans, born and raised here. For many years, I made the maximum "contribution" to Soc. Sec., paying both halves, as I am my own employee. In addition, I paid my Federal income taxes, federal and state unemployment taxes, the employers half of my employees FICA taxes, collected their withholding taxes, thus playing tax collector, plus shelling out for workman's compensation and general liability insurance. My providing employment for all these men, provided a home and food for them and their families, so you can say that my providing jobs supported many hundreds, or thousands of individuals, and probably a couple of breweries and drug dealers, along with paying 100's of thousands of dollars in taxes.
So you can shove your "leech on society" comment up your ass, if you can fit it in there along with your head.

beebop2| 11.25.11 @ 2:40PM

If the government were doing its job? The borders would be secure and the penalties associated with coming across it illegally would dissuade people from doing it. At the same time those who are collecting money for sitting on their behinds would be required to work and the jobs that are going to illegals would be done by US labor either voluntarily or as a "payment" to those of us who foot their bills.

I lived in Tejas for more than 20 years. Roofing? Landscaping? No Anglo will take those jobs and since they are getting 99 weeks of three hots and a cot, why should they?

Jack in Wi| 11.23.11 @ 11:27AM

Newt has a Mount Everest of baggage and is hated by most of the American population, including at least 60% of Republicans. How did the neocons think that they could rehabilitate this old grafter and grifter? The guy who got 38 million in payoffs from the most unsavory lobbies in Washington was trying to run as an outsider who could change things. Well stick a fork in him and take him out of the oven he is done and finished.

I suggest Newt take his wife and the wife's jewels and retire on his lavish pension to Mexico. He and his wife won't be coronated on January 20th 2013. She won't be able to use that tierra from Tiffany's that she bought.

The only 2 guys who ever had a chance to beat Obama are Ron Paul and Willard Romney. They are still the same ones now. Romney gets a lot of votes against Obama and so does Ron Paul in head to head matchups. Ron Paul does the best by far among independents among Republicans. He beats Obama by 10% among them. He also does very well with disgruntled Democrats and young voters. No Republican can be elected without these voters.

Purpleguy| 11.23.11 @ 6:01PM

to paraphrase Herman Cain " If you don't have a job, blame yourself, don't blame other workers" ... that's capitalism baby, no room for bleeding hearts.

Georgie| 11.24.11 @ 8:56PM

Romney has taken all the right positions...Just hope he stays with them and doesn't flip back to the Liberal Mitt of past years..

sjccoach| 11.23.11 @ 9:33AM

Typical liberal logic all emotion and no logic. He speaks the language. He can get in line and apply for legal admission. Problem solved.

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 9:36AM

Easy for you to say, as an armchair quarterback. Did you ever know someone in that position?

BTW, I'm definitely not a liberal, I'm libertarian on domestic issues, and conservative on foreign policy issues.

JR| 11.23.11 @ 9:58AM

No one said it was easy Chuck. It's the rules jack ass.

9thID| 11.23.11 @ 10:10AM

Like most Liber-als/Liber-tarians you only feign compassion for the sake of the profit for your business. Your moral relativism convinces no one who is truly conservative...

Margie| 11.23.11 @ 3:07PM

Oh, please.

Herman| 11.24.11 @ 8:55PM

I'm a Conservative for Romney...I think he will be
a pleasant surprise to us if he gets elected.

beebop2| 11.25.11 @ 2:42PM

Which Mitt do you get? What does he really stand for. Why I may not agree with Newt at least he said OUT LOUD what he believes and would do rather than spring it on people after an election. How many democrats voted for 0bama thinking he was in fact a dem?

Wayne| 11.23.11 @ 4:12PM

I called immigration on workers getting paid in cash every Friday by contractors. The people I blamed were those contractors. Those immigrants were horrible workers. They did not know how to paint a house or hang a window (they were all upside down). But they were cheap. And those contractors expect us to pay for there education and health insurance.
The government told me that it was none of my business. I told them that everything they do or don't do IS my business.
We have let the government get away with not taking responsibility. And that is the crime.

Walter | 11.23.11 @ 7:19PM

There are no easy solutions to a problem involving so many. In defense of Mr Gingrich he said lawful. In the case of a child brought here by a parent or both would you consider that also a law breaker? Technically it is breaking the law. I know I would feel better with Mr Gingrich instead of Mr Obama deciding paramaters for those who can stay.

Cosmo| 11.24.11 @ 8:53PM

Margie: Newt is a Catholic...How can you support him since you are anti-Catholic?

Dick Nome| 11.23.11 @ 7:32AM

Where did you serve and what branch??

Clint| 11.23.11 @ 8:39AM

I was killed by The Stormin' Mormons At The Battle of Salt Lake.

Dick Nome| 11.23.11 @ 8:48AM

After you shot yourself in the foot I guess.

Frank Drackman| 11.23.11 @ 8:52AM

Clint was in the Butt Pirates

Clint| 11.23.11 @ 8:56AM

I Shot The Sheriff, But I Did Not Shoot The Deputy.

Clint| 11.23.11 @ 8:58AM

Little Frankie Was in The Goat Wranglers.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.23.11 @ 9:06AM

Clint served in the "rear guard" of the Greek Army. He never left his buddie's behind.

Clint| 11.23.11 @ 9:15AM

Uh Oh !

More Queer Talk From Bibi's ButtBoy, ConJob.

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 9:38AM

I few years ago there was a headline in the paper, "Gay Soldier faces General Discharge".

Was that you Clint?

9thID| 11.23.11 @ 10:12AM

Clint is the poster child for the gay WikiLeaks traitor Bradley Manning. Beyond that he would run for Canada if the draft was reinstated...

Clint| 11.23.11 @ 1:47PM

More Queer Talk From The Israel Firster BibiButtBoy, 99% IDiot

The Tea Party Steps On The Israel Firster , 99% IDiot's Face.

DTOM| 11.23.11 @ 10:52AM

I gotta big, loud laugh at that one!

Clint| 11.23.11 @ 1:43PM

You Told Us That Was Yo Mama, Chickie.

Dick Nome| 11.24.11 @ 10:08AM

I notice you are more a bit civil lately. That's good. Also notice I only aksed you about service and did not accuse you of being gay. A little yanking of your chain is one thing. Crass insult is another. Happy Thanks giving,

Jack in Wi| 11.23.11 @ 7:36AM

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ron Paul Paul mopped up the floor with the 7 dwarfs and Mr. Neumayr doesn't mention his name once. He is like an ostrich with his head in the sand. Mr. Neumayr why do you keep ignoring the one candidate in this election cycle who personify's the great Catholic Doctrines of Subsidiarity, Just War Theory, Pro-life issues, and Proportionality in response to war or attack? There is no way that an unprovoked attack on Iran can be justified under Catholic doctrine. The Pope has met with the Iranian leadership on several occasions in an effort to stop another horrible war. The last 2 Popes also tried to stop the diaster that Iraq turned out to be. Pope Benedict has said that there is no way that the Iraq War could be justified under Catholic Just War Doctrine. What he said about Iraq goes triple with Iran.

A true Catholic would work for Peace and fellowship between all nations. After all did Jesus not say. " Love thy neighbor, as thy self. Blessed are the Peacemakers. Those who live by the sword will die by the sword. What you do to the least of My brothers you do unto me. Turn the other cheek and keep on turning it. "

Mr Neumayr when are you and the other Catholic Neocons going to appologize and repent for your warmonger ways. William F.Buckley did it within a couple of years of the start of the Iraq war. The disaster that is Iraq will be many times worse if we attack Iran. It is long since time for you to do some real soul searching. Your salvation may depend on it.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.23.11 @ 9:36AM

Jack in WI
…and your salvation may depend on us to help you get your head out of your butt before you suffocate.

I generally just scroll past your idiocy, but I accidently read your last line.
Sorry, Jack. We just don’t have the tools to fix pure stupid here.

9thID| 11.23.11 @ 10:20AM

Secular humanists like JackinWI love to take Scripture out of context because they have never even read/studied the Bible. What commands Jesus gave to individual believers do not necessarily apply to governments. Ref. Rom. 13. I long ago made it a habit to never be lectured to about faith, morality, compassion, and love by those who advocate genocide/abortion, illegal drug use, prostitution, and gay marriage...

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.23.11 @ 10:48AM

Indeed.

A.J.| 11.23.11 @ 1:10PM

At the very least not lectured to by somebody who thinks they are so important that Isreali agents are following him around message boards.
This Jack person has some serious paranoid dillusional issues concerning Jews and Isreal. Its one thing to have opinions and differences on foreign policies, but quite another when it ALL concerns Isreali conspiracies.

Jack in Wi| 11.23.11 @ 1:28PM

I have been a practicing and believing Catholic all my life, not a Secular Humanist. I am a follower of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior. He is also called the Prince of Peace. Catholic Neocons like Neumayr and the newly converted Newt Gingrich have abandoned Jesus and his Church with their call for endless war without any real justification. War as a response is always the absolute last response of true Christian and then only under dire self defense. The war must be fought with regards to minimal casualities and with the goal of peace at the earliest opportunity. The whole idea of Total War, with barbaric weapons is against every Christian Doctrine of Just War and Proportionality. To refuse to negotiate before a war is and then to attack a defenseless neighbor is the mark of a Hitler or Stalin, not a Christian.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.23.11 @ 1:34PM

There IS no such thing as "just war." There's war. Period. And its won by defeating the enemy in all aspects.

"You win battles by knowing the enemy's timing & using a timing he does not expect."...Musashi

Margie| 11.23.11 @ 2:33PM

"Just War" doctrine: you can thank Augustine (Catholic) for that. Just another stupid doctrine. One that makes THEM "the boss."

Jack in Wi| 11.23.11 @ 4:09PM

Hi Margie. I see you have dumped poor old Herman Cain and moved on to the old Fraud Newt. Well the sheep have to led by someone, I guess. You may as well move directly to Romney. Newt is way past his buy sell date.

Margie| 11.24.11 @ 6:56PM

These idiotic Papists love assigning thoughts and words to Christians. In other words, they don't mind lying when the ends justify the means.
Right, Ken?
And I am still for Herman Cain, he's my number one, you jerk.

And as to your second lying post: Two things:

1. God throws liars into Hell.

2. I couldn't care less who anybody is "respected" by~ since I'm not a respecter of persons, but a respecter of the Truth.

"sus said to him, "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father, but by Me." Jn. 14:6.

That's the SON of GOD, Jesus Christ to all you Papists!

Margie| 11.24.11 @ 6:59PM

*Jesus, above.
Also Jack the ripper~ you were ripping Luther just the other day, weren't you? Now you're all concerned that I should be "respecting" Augustine because Luther respected him?

And I'm NOT a Protestant, kiddo.
You Papists are sooo convoluted.

Papist Dan| 11.25.11 @ 1:03PM

BIGOT ALERT !!!! IDIOT ALERT!!!!!

Margie the Bigot is posting her usual bigotry on Thanksgiving Day when all normal people are with their family.
But Margie still cannot accept the Jesus is God so she has to post on Thanksgiving Day her interpretation of the Bible that Jesus is the Son of God, so He is not God, but what ?
You are one sick person. You can't help yourself you have to provoke and pick fights, fine Mullah.
Did you call your parents, who are Catholic, papists on Thanksgiving?
Get a life, and get help.

Margie| 11.25.11 @ 10:06PM

Jesus Christ is LORD.
You Papist punks have a problem with that fact, since you cannot say it, since the doctrine of Jesus Christ isn't what your Religion teaches. It teaches that Mary is on par with God, in fact Mother of God, and head of an unbiblical teaching called "The Trinity."
I posted your sick doctrine from the Vatican website to prove that. It teaches that Mary was sinless, which is against what God states in His Word.
Now, either you repent from believeing lies, or you will perish with the rest of the liars who refuse to love the Truth:

"The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." 2 Thess. 2:9-12.

"Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son." 1 Jn. 2:22.

Papist Dan| 11.25.11 @ 10:29PM

Bigot Margie,
You get more stupid and intolerant every day. Mary is not on par with God, you idiot. How many times do you have to be told this? Maybe you like to believe your own lies, you lie so much you have convinced yourself.
Jesus is Lord. Jesus is God, idiot. Stick to anabaptist cult of polygamy and wife sharing, and don't try to lecture anyone on Christianity.

Margie| 11.26.11 @ 8:59PM

Lying Papist against God:

Your post,is, as always filled with lies.

From the Vatican website itself:

"509 Mary is truly "Mother of God" since she is the mother of the eternal Son of God made man, who is God himself."

"Mary's divine motherhood

495 Called in the Gospels "the mother of Jesus", Mary is acclaimed by Elizabeth, at the prompting of the Spirit and even before the birth of her son, as "the mother of my Lord".144 In fact, the One whom she conceived as man by the Holy Spirit, who truly became her Son according to the flesh, was none other than the Father's eternal Son, the second person of the Holy Trinity. Hence the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos).145."

Now, you Papist idolators are so filled with deceit that you always try and deny what your cult actually teaches, but there it is.

Now, just who is stupid, and who is an idiot?

It is always sickening to me as well, how you filthy lying idolators can sit there and name call with such lies as you do and yet be so filled with contempt and falsehood yourselves, and with utter disdain toward the Word of God and His followers.

You care not a thing for His Truth, as written in the Scriptures, and insist on the false teachings of your cult leaders instead, and all the while falsely accusing others of belonging to a cult!
This is the height of hypocrisy of course, but then that is what your very being consists of.

Now, how stupid and disrespectful are you of the very Words of God Himself when He says that there are NO other gods before Him!

"You are My witnesses," says the LORD, "and My servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. Before Me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after Me." Is. 43:10.

Now~ just try and walk all over that Scripture again for the umpteenth time, it will harm you and not me! And your lies only hurt yourself as well, and how you choose to disobey the God of the Bible by worshipping a man in a robe who pretends to be Christ on Earth.

Your cult teaches not only that Mary is Mother of God, and teaches prayer to her, a dead woman, which is also against the will of God, but it also teaches, as I truthfully said, that Mary was sinless, and born that way. From the Vatican site:

508 "From among the descendants of Eve, God chose the Virgin Mary to be the mother of his Son. "Full of grace", Mary is "the most excellent fruit of redemption" (SC 103): from the first instant of her conception, she was totally preserved from the stain of original sin and she remained pure from all personal sin throughout her life."

Total lies, and unscriptural.

Repent and believe the Gospel of God, as written in the Scriptures, that say that there is ONE Mediator between God and Man, the Man Christ Jesus, 2 Tim. 2:5 & 6, that ALL have sinned, including Mary, Rom. 3:23, and that unless you believe and obey HIS Words and not the words of men, you will likewise perish. Lk. 13:3, and :

"He who does not love Me does not keep My Words; and the Word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's Who sent Me." Jn. 14:24.

Papist Dan| 11.27.11 @ 11:31AM

Idiot Margie
Are you too stupid to understand that Catholics believe Mary is the Mother of God becuase they believe that Jesus is God, as do most Christians?
Your cut and paste job is not different from the first sentence of this reply. She is not divine but is referred to as the Mother of God.
You don't believe that Jesus is God so you can't say that Mary is the Mother of God. You can believe whatever you want evidenced that you believe in the anabaptists who practiced polygamny and wife sharing in Muenster. But don't lecture us on Christianity,you are a phony, not a Christian

Are you a liar or just plain stupid that you can't understand a simple sentence like Mary is referred to as the Mother of God because She is the Mother of Jesus and Jesus is God? Do you have any ability to reason or do you just cut and paste?

Repent, open your eyes away from your blind hatred of your parents' religion. There is hope for you.

Margie| 11.27.11 @ 5:12PM

You are too hard hearted and stiff-necked to repent of your idolotry.
Your Vatican's own words are in direct rebellion to the true God of the Bible, which says that ALL have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.

That includes Mary, whom was born with Sin in her members just as everyone else is. She was not born sinless as your cult states in its own words which I posted from your perverted Vatican.

Your cult therefore puts Mary as equal to God, and "Mother of God."

And no matter how many names of stupid and idiot you can froth repeatedly in order to try and crush me, the Spirit of God cannot be crushed.

It wasn't ever crushed from the beginning of when your cult was first formed and murdered millions of my Christian brethren who also believed the Scriptures as I do, and His church, which is Christian and NOT Catholic will never be crushed, but those who refuse to love the truth as you do will be thrown into the Lake of Fire for eternity, for you are a liar and God hates liars.

Jesus Christ is LORD. Mary is nor was she EVER sinless and is no Mother of God.

Nor am I what you say that I am in order to try and paint me as what you wish, but I reject your cult's false teachings and stand on the very Words of God as written in the Scriptures, and without which loving no one will be allowed into the Kingdom of God.

"For whoever is ashamed of Me and of My Words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when He comes in His Glory and the Glory of the Father and of the Holy Angels." Lk. 9:26

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My Words will not pass away." Lk. 21:33.

"He who does not love Me does not keep My Words; and the Word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me." Jn. 14:24.

Papist Dan| 11.27.11 @ 10:27PM

Nobody really cares what you think because your have created your own little cult of one, maybe two, out of your interpretation of the Bible and your anabaptist beliefs. There is one or two in your cult and over one billion Catholics, and hundreds of thousands of various Protestant denominations that don't agree with your version that Jesus is not God. You are too stupid to realize you have a cult of one, or two.
Your bretheren in Muenster were killed in battle with the Lutherans because your bretheren practiced polygamy, wife sharing, and sex with underage girls. Maybe you view this as the truth.
Repent.
You do realilze that Mary is the Mother of Jesus. Is that too complicated for you, dimwit.
You just don't agree that Jesus is God.
And you don't understand the difference between worship and respect or venerate. Another reason for saying you are not very smart and unable to reason.
Probably your hate of your parents' religion causing your bigotry. Get help.

Papist Dan| 11.25.11 @ 1:05PM

Margie
You are too stupid to understand St Augustine. Stick to the Jack Chick comic books.

Margie| 11.26.11 @ 9:19PM

No, I am not what you say and you are a liar who is an idolator of men, and believes the false teachings of your Apostate Religion, for I believe all that is written in the Scriptures and all that is written in the Bible by the men who were appointed by God Himself to so write, and I am the one who rejects the cult of Catholicism's false teachings. It isn't me that is the stupid and ignorant soul, but I am the one telling you the biblical truth by presenting the Scriptures for all to see up against your cult's twisted doctrines.

The God of the Bible says that you are too stupid to be a man:

"Surely I am too stupid to be a man. I have not the understanding of a man." Prov. 30:2.

For you reject the Scriptures and instead choose to slap Jesus in the face, and crucify Him afresh. (Heb. 6:6). For that is what you and your Religion does by rejecting His Words and replacing them with a different gospel.

"Any one who goes ahead and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God; he who abides in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son.
If any one comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into the house or give him any greeting; for he who greets him shares his wicked work." 2 Jn. 1:9-11.

Papist Dan| 11.27.11 @ 11:23AM

Margie,
You are either stupid or a liar to keep saying what you say. You are very defensive about your ignorance and low intelligence as reflected by your comments. All you can do is cut and paste verses.

MikeG| 11.27.11 @ 12:35PM

I vote for Liar with a touch of stupidity.

Margie| 11.27.11 @ 5:16PM

You have nothing but insults of my intelligence, as do all lying Papists.
You have not the ability to think or to reason and reject the Scriptures of the true God of the Bible.

Only a son of Satan would mock the very Scriptures when spoken.

You have not the love of God in you, or of His Word.

"You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies." Jn. 8:44.

Papist Dan| 11.27.11 @ 10:21PM

Don't mock the Bible, mock your idea that your are the authority on the Bible. You don't seem to understand that all you do is post your opinions. It is your opinions that show your low intelligence. It may be an insult but it is the truth: you are a liar or stupid or a combination.

Jack in Wi| 11.23.11 @ 4:31PM

By the way Margie Augustine was respected by the founder of the Protestant religion, Luther and by many Protestants since then.

Steve| 11.27.11 @ 12:37PM

Margie Village Idiot,
You expect anybody here to believe your read Augustine? I doubt you can read the street map of St.Augustine (that's a city in Florida).

W| 11.23.11 @ 5:28PM

"Just war" is related to proportionalism. When Argentina invaded the Falkland islands should Britain have dropped a nuclear bomb on Buenos Aires? When a Palestinian throws a rock at an Israeli soldier should Israel nuke a Palestinian village?

We applied just war when we ended the first Gulf War without taking over Iraq and deposing Saddam. Maybe we made a mistake. But the principle of just war is sound, its appllication raises issues that can be debated.

However I agree that if there is a formal declaration of war by congress then you go all out to win. Unfortunately all our wars (Korea, Vietnam, Irqaq, Afghanistan, Libya) are decision made by the president. Without a declaration of war and the commitment to win at all costs that is inherent in a declaration of war, we will always have this proportionality and just war argument.

Remember LBJ's policy in Vietnam was always to "escalate" in response to an attack, and the escalation was not to win but to encourage the enemy to negotiate.

beebop2| 11.25.11 @ 2:45PM

Cant fix stupid. Vote them out! ABO

beebop2| 11.25.11 @ 2:45PM

Cant fix stupid. Vote them out! ABO

Doctor Right| 11.23.11 @ 10:14AM

As usual, Jack in Wi was watching a different debate.

Newt made a complete fool of Paul, and got huge applause by reminding Paul that Tim McCeigh succeeded.

Paul did himself no favors last night, and won no converts. He will NOT be the Republican nominee.

canuckistani| 11.23.11 @ 10:27AM

No, Paul makes a fool of himself without any assistance. He is often correct in theoretical arguments - choosing liberty over any government intervention, but his position lacks any level of real practical options to existing issues, especially in the foreign policy realm.
I thought Blitzer's questions were fairly well worded. Perry's response that he would be able to enact the flat tax program with democrat support was humerous in the fact that the GOP congress does not want it either - and just voted down the BBA. Like Paul, Perry lives in a fantasy world.

At least Newtie senses moments to pander to the indifferent middle from time to time to test electability. I suspect polling amongst indies will rise as his calculation may show cons still think he's DOA.

Clint| 11.23.11 @ 1:51PM

" Ron Paul is surging, an Iowa and New Hampshire front-runner and powerful third-party possibility
By Brent Budowsky - 11/21/11 10:04 AM ET

There are now multiple polls that show Ron Paul has gained support and has a legitimate chance to come in first or second in Iowa and New Hampshire. I would now call Ron Paul one of three front-runners in both Iowa and New Hampshire alongside Mitt Romney and a third candidate, currently Newt Gingrich. If Ron Paul wins Iowa, which he might, all bets are off. Also, most analysts miss the fact that many states have open systems where independents, and in some cases Democrats, can vote for a Republican nominee. This could give a further boost to Paul.

It is now time to give Ron Paul the attention he deserves in debates and throughout the political community."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here & In Iowa.

Jack in Wi| 11.23.11 @ 4:23PM

Dr. Wrong: Ron Paul got a huge response in the Neocon den. The Herritige group and AEI are infested with neocons. Look who asked the questions Wolfowitz, Meese, and well known neocon lady who's name slips my mind [ Danielle Plenka ? ]. Ron Paul dominated the debate. Everyone was focused on him. He won the after debate poll on the internet by a huge majority. You know it went well when the old neocon Dick Morris was crabbing and crying a blue streak on Fox News that the moderators were giving Ron Paul too much time. 75% of the population agrees with Ron Paul about ending the wars and foreign aid. Any Republican that talks like these 7 dwarfs did last nignt will be luckey to get 30% of the vote. Any credible 3rd party would get more.

Mike Rogers | 11.23.11 @ 4:09PM

Even trolls show some variety - are you a Paulbot or a spambot?

Alan Brooks| 11.24.11 @ 12:00AM

Newt wants to be Futurist In Chief.
And, Clint, Ron Paul wants to be Paranoid In Chief. Paul thinks the UN is out to get us, when the UN is too incompetent to get anything except funding.

Alan Brooks| 11.24.11 @ 12:09AM

The UN is too ineffectual to get past square one. They can propose legislation to confiscate guns, gold, and institute one world government, but they don't go anywhere. The UN isn't the Red Army- the UN has no teeth.
Ron Paul is a smart guy, smarter than Pat Robertson, but just as paranoid. Plus school prayer and all that s Rightwing Kumbaya wont sell in 2012, either.

Clint, you and Jack are backing the wrong horse in this race.

Clint| 11.26.11 @ 2:58PM

Aaaaand, ObamaBoy Israel Firster Brooks, You Are Obviously A Horses Ass.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here And In Iowa.

Clint| 11.26.11 @ 2:56PM

Apparently, Angry-At-America ObamaBoy, Israel Firster Brooks Likes It When The U.N. Secretary General Moon's Us.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here & In Iowa.

Alan Brooks| 11.27.11 @ 3:50PM

I'll like it when Obama is re-elected, as such will mean no more Cheney-Rove (mis)administrations.

What a screwing Cheney-Rove gave you, Clint; but you were asleep, so you didn't know it. One must admit they both did have a Delicate Touch.

Alan Brooks| 11.27.11 @ 3:52PM

they had a tailgating party:
now we know what is meant by 'tailgating'.

Cosmo| 11.24.11 @ 8:51PM

Margie: Newt is a Catholic, how can you support him?

Margie| 11.25.11 @ 10:07PM

Herman Cain's a Christian, how can you support him?
Idiot.

MikeG| 11.26.11 @ 3:49PM

I can support any Republican regardless of religon, unlike garbage mouth margiey.

Margie| 11.26.11 @ 9:21PM

Lying Troll: Liars go to Hell, did you know that?
Get ready, for you are lying in what you just said.

MikeG| 11.27.11 @ 12:34PM

How do you know anything Margie all you do is fight with everybody here and tell everybody they are going to hell. What was the lie? Aren't you a garbage mouth with all your foul language?

Margie| 11.27.11 @ 5:18PM

Foul language you say?
Well, "MikeG", I see you are a Paul-bot from the other thread, and a lying defender of Papists and liars here.
That makes you foul in the true sense of the word.

MikeG| 11.28.11 @ 2:54PM

What is a Paul bot? If it's a Paul supporter, I'm not, but will vote for him over Obama. You really are sick. Just throw out your standard bull every day in addition to the foul language.

gary siebel| 11.23.11 @ 6:40AM

An interesting assessment. It would seem Nute has more baggage than just his hypocritical philandering.

Obama will win anyway, so it doesn't matter who the Repubs choose from the current crop.

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 11.23.11 @ 6:50AM

Newt's policy on illegal immigration is just restating what has been the official policy of both the Republican and Democratic parties since the 80's. He and Perry may make more ground off of this issue than may be apparent now.

I still wouldn't vote for Newt although I would vote for Perry.

RJ| 11.23.11 @ 6:55AM

As a Californian, I am very familiar with the effects of uncontrolled illegal immigration. I don't think Newt lacks a strategic focus on his campaign. It struck me that he was being honest with what he believes. A refreshing concept which I admire. Romney could learn from that. Flailing in emotion is common in politics, but it usually creates unnecessary weakness. The GOP needs to be smart on illegal immigration. Newt's plan, calling first for establishing a secure border and then having a type of selective service board to decide who goes and who stays, sounds like an achievable outcome to me.

Anyone but Obama| 11.23.11 @ 8:34AM

I agree; unlike Perry who's amnesty position seemed to be based on emotion (anyone who didn't agree was "heartless"), Newt's plan isn't based on compassion. It's a thought out, logical plan that allows a limited number of illegal immigrants who have proved themselves to be law abiding citizens to stay.

DTOM| 11.23.11 @ 11:09AM

Newt IS being compassionate when he says he doesn't want to tear illegals out of their world if they have been (otherwise) law abiding for twenty five years. There is some common sense to that, but not enough.

I chuckled at the notion that Newt use 25 years as his target residence time for 'pardoned' illegals. That would have been 1986 - or during the big influx that culminated in the Democrats' Trojan horse border enforcement policy that conned Reagan into granting amnesty to 2 - 3 million illegals.

Newt did have the excellent idea that illegals would be made legal, NOT citizens. That is good, very good. Restores respect for law, bars criminals from profiting from their crime. And acknowledges and rewards extended good behavior. Especially if we use that as a rationalization for becoming zealous in deporting bad actors and ne'er-do-wells!

One exception I would make: "illegals" who were brought here by their parents before they were 18 years of age. One could make the argument that since they had not reached the age of majority and were not legally able to establish a residence, they in fact did not break the law. Their parents did.

So after some creditable military service, they could be fast tracked to legal citizenship. I think we do this now, without the invading the US as a child part.

But none of this changes the fact that Newt would be a lousy President because he'd always be off chasing some new concept when there was serious sausage to be made.

Sorta like last night-we're talking foreign policy and he's talking domestic immigration policies.

Capice?

irish19| 11.26.11 @ 7:26PM

"One exception I would make: "illegals" who were brought here by their parents before they were 18 years of age. One could make the argument that since they had not reached the age of majority and were not legally able to establish a residence, they in fact did not break the law. Their parents did.

So after some creditable military service, they could be fast tracked to legal citizenship. I think we do this now, without the invading the US as a child part."
I like that. Very good idea.

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.23.11 @ 7:00AM

Lets start with Illegal Immigration. I don't agree with Linda Chavez, very much, but I do, on this one. We cannot go after these people with a Sledgehammer.

We can't give them Amnesty. They should NEVER have a Driver's Licence. And, of course, should never be able to Vote. But, we have to remember, that they are PEOPLE. And I wouldn't want to have to pack up, and make my way, thousands of miles to another Country, who's language I can't even speak, just so I can do manual labour, and feed my Family.

The DEMONIZATION has got to stop. If we can put a man on the Moon. (We did that) And, even if we can't. (We don't do that anymore. Like all of the other 3rd World Countries, run by Petty Socialist Commandantes, we don't have a Manned Space Program) We should be able to set up a System, whereby these people can come to work, and then GO HOME, when the work is done.

What? Do I have a PLAN?
I'm glad you asked.

Let's start pulling our Companies out of China. (I know that we can't FORCE them out. But, we could ENTICE them across the Ocean)

If these Companies are determined to go offshore, because of all of the added expenses of doing business in Obama's Thugocracy, then why not do it in THIS Hemisphere? Why not make all of these Pencils and Bobble Head Dolls, and Socks and Underpants, and Toys with Lead on them, SOUTH OF THE BORDER?

Instead of Running High Powered Weapons to Murderous Mexican Drug Cartels, without the Mexican Government's knowledge? Why don't we encourage these Corporations to send them these Jobs?

Think about it. These Jobs, in China, are never coming back, until we have GUILLOTEENED every Liberal and "Moderate" Politician in Washington. So, why not give them to a Country that's NOT pointing Nuclear ICBMs at us, or seeking to HACK our Defence Department Computers, or STEALING our Patented Technology?

Why not give these jobs to Countries that do NOT thwart us, in the UN, every time we try to PUNISH a SCUMBAG COUNTRY, like North Korea, or Iran?

Why not give these Jobs to Countries whose people are flooding OUR COUNTRY? All they want to do, is to WORK! Unlike some "Communities" (And you know who you are) who'd rather sit on their asses, waiting for a HANDOUT, so they can buy a new pair of $200 Sneakers, to wear when he's knocking up his HO.

"If you build it, they will come." And, if we Build It DOWN THERE?
They will GO home.

Wow. That wasn't that hard, after all.

coal carrier| 11.23.11 @ 7:55AM

TLP, with all do respect, those jobs are already in Mexico. I have work in manufacturing since 1963. I have worked for 13 different companies. The larger companies such as RCA, Cooper/Wagner, Tyco/AMP, Black & Decker and Rainbird all have huge manufacturing facilities in Mexico. The problem is that the nationals sneaking over the border are the ones that can’t get jobs in these facilities so they come here as laborers.

The compassion should be directed at the American workers who have lost their jobs due to their companies moving outside of the U.S.

Just a note. I am not a union man. I am a conservative. Please don’t be so quick to ship our jobs and technology off shore. Remember, we can not sustain our standard of living by selling hamburgers to one another.

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.23.11 @ 9:04AM

You're not listening. I said that "IF" these Companies are determined to offshore these jobs. I am not Jettisoning anything. They're already gone. And, they will NEVER come back. The Barack Hussein Obamas and the Richard Trumpkas and Donald Berwicks and Cass Sunsteins of this Country, will make certain of that.

Dave | 11.23.11 @ 9:08AM

Coal Carrier:

Companies outsourcing, or outright moving their entire operations overseas is simply a matter of business math. Sadly, business math or math in its basic variety isn't driven home into the brains of the entitlement generations. Like the kid next door often mumbles to me: "Man, the government needs to do more." When I briefly explain how the government accumulates the money it spends in order to "do more", the response is the same. "Yeah, whatever."

I'm reminded of Alicia Silverstone in Clueless.

If a business can get the same job done at a cheaper labor and taxing rate than "the other guy", he'd be as Red Foreman says -- a dumb ass for not doing it. Never forget grasshopper: "A business, first of all, is IN business to make money, not necessarily to provide union level wage and benefits level for his employees. In Nirvana, that works. But when trying to keep a business afloat, and two steps ahead of the tax posse, the offshore moves looks to be the better of two options.

In the end, don't blame the businessman, blame the people who determined that "it's not THEIR money, it belongs to the government." That's what kids learn when the spend ten bucks at the local Metro-Plex watching the latest movie from
George Clooney, or one of those well made Oliver Stone's hit pieces. Unfortunately generations of theater goers haven't learned how to read between the lines of dialogue.

Wage the Dog unions, confiscatory taxes laws, manufacturing restrictions, and all manner of government meddling into businesses most government elected have no earthly clue how to run (most have never even run a lemonade stand) are the ones who'd mucked-up the recipe.

In an ultimate Obamaworld, you wouldn't even have the option of moving your business. The government brown shirts would simply nationalize your enterprise in the name of "the people" and assign your board of directors to begin supervising the fry cooks at the government run Burger King.

Think I'm just funnin'? OK, go ahead and vote another four years of Obama In Charge and let me know how that works out at the end of those 45 months.

Good luck to all of us.

coal carrier| 11.23.11 @ 11:42AM

Dave,

I don’t disagree with what you said. The problem again is the government. They are the reason for companies moving out. Taxes and regulations for 45 years are why they can’t be competitive.

DRed| 11.23.11 @ 12:22PM

People in China will work for a few dollars a day. If you think we can compete with that if we get rid of taxes and regulations, I've got a bridge here in Brooklyn that I'd love to sell you.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.23.11 @ 8:01AM

Timothy,
The reason a LOT of Hispanics come here is pure old oppression.

Their home countries are so corrupt, and the class structures are so defined as to make anything but abject poverty impossible.

I would get some really smart guys to put together a long term “guest-worker” program so they could work here and make a contribution in taxes etc.

Nancy in NC| 11.23.11 @ 8:14AM

Many of the Hispanics are very hard workers...something we have a shortage of in this country. After all, in many cases, hard work doesn't pay as well as collecting "benefits".

loulou| 11.23.11 @ 10:08AM

SOME Hispanics are hard workers. Most are not and are here to take advantage of the freebies. The Hispanics of any quality manage to make it in the own country. What we get are the bottom of the barrel.

Just think--Mexico gets to dump their undesirables on us and the country is STILL a cesspool!

canuckistani| 11.23.11 @ 10:33AM

Careful with that assessment. If congress enacted tough employer sanctions for hiring illegals, their production would drop off precipitously given there would not be a willing legal domestic workforce to fill in the gaps. Willard seems to think we can solve the labor problem with legal immigration of doctors engineers and chemists. We already have those. What we don't have are unskilled workers willing to be paid below market wages. In our achievement society, we've lost the entry labor pool.

We tend forget we got to this point through practical expediency, not malicious forethought.

RCV| 11.23.11 @ 11:20AM

Sorry, loulou, but the great majority of Hispanic families I know who've come here are surely not "the bottom of the barrel" of their countries. Quite the opposite. It takes a lot of courage, enterprise and gumption to do what it takes to leave your life in your old country behind and come here, just as it always did. That's why we're arguing about things like whether the children of such illegal immigrants should be allowed to go to college here. We continue to attract people who care about their families, their future and who have the will and enterprise to do something about it.

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 4:12PM

Save your time RCV, loulou just hates Mexicans.

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.23.11 @ 8:59AM

I understand that. I'm saying: Get the HELL out of China. Stop giving the one country on this planet, that threatens our Position in the world, ALL OF OUR MONEY. The American People are FINANCING China's Military Spending, even as we are GUTTING our own.

They're oppressed? That's because they're so POOR. Put these jobs down there. They make money. Money buys things. Spent the right way, it can even pay for the OPPRESSORS to be replaced.

And, how is it that we need a GUEST WORKER PROGRAM, when 46% of Black Youth is UNEMPLOYED? Hmmmmmmm?

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 9:17AM

Ken, it is worse than corrupt. I have friends who, when they go to Mexico, have to hide everything of value, lest they be killed, and just disappear. Another friend went to visit his parents, got stopped on the road, and had to pay to be allowed passage. He told me the men threatened to kill his son.
The place is a real hell-hole, and I can't blame anyone from wanting to escape from there.

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.23.11 @ 9:46AM

We need to smuggle high powered weapons to the Drug Cartels, down there, without the Mexican Government knowing about it. That's what I would do. I mean. Who wouldn't?

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.23.11 @ 9:55AM

Chuck,
I was writing reply to Timothy when my lights (computer) blinked off and scrubbed it. I used a different term…”refugees” from the kinds of things you just described.
Perhaps Timothy has never worked/lived down there. I have done hugundous projects all over Mexico and south america. One of our hardest jobs was helping our workers sneak their money to Mama instead of the gangs and “federales”…to be redundant.
(heh heh…we always recruited our local workers through the local churches, usually catholic…and then paid them through their churches. Hey, the churches only took a tithe, (10%).
Pretty good deal down there.

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 10:04AM

Ken, perhaps if most of the "send them all back" crowd knew as many Mexicans, and were familiar with their hardships as we are, their opinions would soften a little.

loulou| 11.23.11 @ 10:11AM

It doesn't matter what their hardships are. Don't you get it?

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.23.11 @ 10:19AM

That's not the point. WE HAVE LAWS. And, one of them is about IMMIGRATION.

Perhaps you're just too STUPID to comprehend what would happen if we let EVERYBODY IN, because they had "Hardships".

Unless you WANT to turn this entire country in to DETROIT.

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 12:57PM

I don't believe we should let everyone in. Secure the border, fix the problem so it doesn't get any worse. Then address those ALREADY here. I believe what Newt said last night is a decent proposal. For those that have been here a long time, have established ties to the community, and have worked hard and kept their noses clean, find a way to allow them to stay. For those young, single men who have no real ties, send them back, along with anyone else who is convicted of a crime. We, as a nation, can not take care of all the world's hardship cases, that's not what I am saying, but there are some decent people, who while here illegally, with what seems to be the consent of our government which surely did nothing to keep them out or throw them out for years on end, deserve to stay.
It's not that hard to distinguish between the two.

Margie| 11.23.11 @ 2:39PM

Hey, I think you're a good guy, and you make perfect sense.
I listened to Rush talk about that today, and he said basically what you were saying there.
It's common sense thinking if you ask me.

Margie| 11.23.11 @ 3:02PM

That was to chuck.

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 4:14PM

Thanks Margie, been lonely here today!

RCV| 11.23.11 @ 5:50PM

Well said, Chuck.

Maddox| 11.23.11 @ 9:19AM

Our country is heading down that same path of corruption. Where will they (we) go as it deteriorates?

Nancy in NC| 11.23.11 @ 8:09AM

Mr. Pennell, some good points there. We are outsourcing business to Mexico already. Unfortunately, many of these businesses require skilled labor, something somewhat rare in Mexico (and here as well). I know Rubbermaid has a manufacturing plant in Mexico.

Many of the illegals that come here have no skills other than those of manual labor. We need manual labor because we pay people in this country with the manual labor skills not to work. They not only don't work, but often have more children that will follow in their footsteps. However, they have one skill that few care to mention: gaming the system. In many neighborhoods that skill is a little business in itself. They practically offer "workshops" in how to game the system, and if they aren't doing it well enough, the Federal government will "help" them improve on their system.

We are in deep trouble, folks. The politicians have gamed the system just as well as the other takers. The politiciansare not makers either, but have figured out a way to "game" the system at our expense. (Insider trading, anyone?)

I don't see any real solutions offered by the usual suspects running for President. They fail to address these issues with anything other than sound bites...they are too afraid they might offend someone that might possibly vote for them.

The few adults in this country are not running for President. And the GOP voters run from one candidate to another, and no one is demanding that we discuss the real problems in this country.

Capitalism didn't get us in this mess...government run amok got us into this mess. Abandoning the principles of the Constitution and the rule of law while embracing socialism got us here.

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.23.11 @ 9:09AM

So, send the DUMMY JOBS to Latin America. Everyone is focusing on MEXICO. We're not just talking about Mexico. We're talking about Ecuador, and Columbia. We're talking about all of the Countries that eat BUGS every day.

Every Dollar we take away from China, is a Dollar in our Favour. That's what I'm talking about.

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 9:22AM

Nancy,
The Mexicans I know, and I know a lot, while they may lack "skills" initially, are fast learners, and have a lot of common sense. They come up with some of the damnedest things I have ever seen, and while they surely will give you a good laugh, most of them are just ingenious as to functionality and simplicity. I'll take a bunch of unskilled Mexicans and train them over most highly skilled Americans any day.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.23.11 @ 9:58AM

Chuck,
Yep! and Phillipinos as well.

JR| 11.23.11 @ 10:15AM

Chuck what is your fascination with Mexicans. The bullshit your trying to get us to buy is ridiculous. I dont know how many times we've had to stop our work cause the mexicans you love so much didn't do any of the work according to code. They may think they've come up with a better idea but try telling that to the city inspector. Fast learners? Yea their fast in the ability to fool an ass like yourself.

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 4:49PM

Well JR, there was this purdy lil' thang down in Tijuana once...........ahh, you know, all the itas!
Fajitas
Margaritas
Senoritas!!!!!!

JR| 11.23.11 @ 10:23AM

Another thing if they are such quick learners why havent they learned how to stand in line? It's assholes like yourself that will lead this country down a path that I fear for my two daughters everyday. If you were in front of me right now I'd bitch slap you. Why? Because you are the bitch that takes the disrespect these and other illegals show us everyday by flaunting our rules, laws and our customs. If left unchecked we will not be the America I grew up in during the 80's. We will become like mexico which is such a shithole their own people are dying to leave. That should tell you something. It makes me sick people like you would sell out this country over money. Let's be honest thats what this is really all about. Cheap labor.

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 1:29PM

Gee, been a long time since I had a good "bitch slappin". Probably good use one. Tell you what, practice some more on your wife, and when your ready, let me know.

Frank Drackman| 11.23.11 @ 8:32AM

You wanta put Mexicans on the Moon??

Con Chef (NB) | 11.23.11 @ 9:11AM

My name.... Jose Jimenez!

Bydand76| 11.23.11 @ 10:00AM

On a Steeeek !

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.23.11 @ 9:14AM

Yes, Frank. I do. In fact, if you read what I wrote, with your nose pressed against the screen, a Pirate Patch over one eye, and a dirty sock in your mouth? You can clearly make out a Secret Code that I'm using, to subliminally, convince the the Mexican People, to go to the Moon.

Thank You for noticing. I was beginning to think that I was wasting my time.

DTOM| 11.23.11 @ 10:01AM

TLP,

Don't worry. I got it straight away!

JR| 11.23.11 @ 10:09AM

I am so tired of how people portray Mexican illegals as such hard working people. I live in a community full of them and they are the most ignorant worker except for the ability to appear to be working hard. Dont even get me started on how they drive either. I've watch how a lot of them will always seem to be working but if you pay attention it's usually because the task at hand takes them a lot longer than the average American. Most of you that want to feel sorry for them probably live in areas that the ones you see are mowing you yards and trimming the bushes. As someone who lives among them I see up close the problems that lay in store for this country if we give them amnesty.

loulou| 11.23.11 @ 10:13AM

Amen, JR.
They are the lumpenproletariat. They are what they are.

martin j smith| 11.23.11 @ 7:37AM

Every exposure for the candidates is good for the voters. The more the better. But I still believe the best debate would be a free for all moderated by Conservatives and Republicans not Communist Nyeuz Nyet Wurk. This is a dog and poney show and diminishes the voter ability to better understand the candidates. Never the less--people's views will go up and down. till they make their choices in primaries. I still do not believe that Romney has been well vetted--gaining from some other candidates mistakes does not a candidate make.

Mike W| 11.23.11 @ 7:48AM

The 1986 Amnesty is the biggest reason why California is permanently a blue state. Newt would have the rest of the country go the same way.

The country's fate might be sealed with or without Newt. He just gets us there faster.

Nancy in NC| 11.23.11 @ 8:12AM

Your last sentence, Mike, says it all. Newt is George Bush on steroids, with none of his attributes. At least he (W) was a decent person, just not a conservative. Newt tries to play a conservative on TV.

loulou| 11.23.11 @ 10:17AM

Newt is indeed GWB on steroids but GWB was not a conservative. I'm not saying he was not a decent person but why didn't he pardon Ramos and Compean? Where was his vaunted compassion?

LarryK| 11.23.11 @ 8:13AM

Is "Anybody but Obama" really a rallying cry?

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.23.11 @ 8:24AM

Larry, you bet your butt. (smile) ABO

Frank Drackman| 11.23.11 @ 8:33AM

DRAFT DICK CHANEY!!!!!!!!!!

John C.| 11.23.11 @ 8:36AM

Newt outed himself last night -- he is the poster child for cheap-labor globalism who embraces quasi-amnesty and more H1-B visas.

Though immigration got the most notice Newt’s position on advocating and expanding H1-B visas to further undercut hi-tech American workers, including many unemployed, is even more telling. The problem is all the other candidates espoused the same anti-American policy -- alas they are all one-world Internationalists.

In addition, several candidates proposed the way to deal with Pakistan is through trade, code for outsourcing more of our decimated manufacturing base -- quite unbelievable.

After last night’s debate I will vote for none of them -- hoping that pro-American Donald Trump runs as an Independent. The GOP is no longer an America-First conservative Party but rather they embrace libertarian economic globalism, which is the root cause of our economic demise

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.23.11 @ 10:00AM

John C.
You mean you are voting for Obama as a default.
DUMBARSE!

POST American| 11.23.11 @ 8:48AM

SUB-Mitt ROME-knee

Newt 'Getting RICH'

TTT-Rick Pair--he

----Dick CHAIN--KNEE?

Anyway, whenever someone at A.S. or
within the Rockefeller FAKE OP
'Republican' establishment, is ready to offer up a
non-CFR front candidate for consideration
----POST America will be waiting.

Dan Mathewson| 11.26.11 @ 9:07PM

You're going to wait a looooooooooong time. Can you hold your breath?

Dmac| 11.23.11 @ 9:05AM

I was afraid we were gonna end up this way, not one true conservative in the republican field. If you do not live in the southwerstern United States, you have no ideal how many illegals are in the country now. I would guess the number west of the Mississippi could as high as 30 million. Yes, as high as 30 million. We have been invaded and our government run by two political parties have committed treason on us. If you broke the law twenty years ago and you break everyday afterwards you don't deserve amnesty. You deserve to have everything you have seized and you butt taken back to the border and removed from this country. It isn't the fault of the United States if your family is broken up, its yours for breaking laws. When a thief is found guilty and sentenced to prison, his or her family is broken up when that person is sent to prison. We don't cry for them and we shouldn't cry for those who come here illegaly and the have the gall to stay here illegaly for years and years. Your as much as a law breaker today as you were the day youillegaly entered the country.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.23.11 @ 10:04AM

dMAC,
Please thank God every day that you were born here.....an are NOT an American Indian.

Dmac| 11.23.11 @ 11:03AM

Ken,
I do thank God I was born here, Texas that is. The American Indian is the ONLY group I have sympathy for. My great grandmother was 100% comanche.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.23.11 @ 12:24PM

DMac,
God bless you. Most of the "Mexicans" coming here are Comanches......or in spanish "Metzitos". (sic?)
The Comanches killed off the Apatches here and drove them into the mountains long before we white-eyes got here.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.23.11 @ 12:27PM

OH...Dmac,
My grandmom was full blood Sioux.

Margie| 11.24.11 @ 7:02PM

If you're Grandma could see you now... how's your conscience, false accuser?

"He who speaks the truth gives honest evidence, but a false witness utters deceit." Prov. 12:17.

Bydand76| 11.25.11 @ 7:58PM

Margie......

The bible also says in Matthew 6:14-15
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

I think it is time to take some of this advice to heart............

Continuing in this anger against Ken and Catholics is most Un- Christian of you.....

Forgiveness is better than holding anger in your heart against someone.

Just saying.

Margie| 11.25.11 @ 10:24PM

As a lot of Christians do, you twist the Scriptures.
First of all, Ken has NOT repented of the false accusations he made publicly. If you were a gebuine Christian, you'd be taking HIM to task about it, but you are siding with him, and against the Truth.

The Bible says that when a brother accuses another Christian, he should present his evidence:

"He who speaks the truth gives honest evidence, but a false witness utters deceit.
Prov. 12:17.

So far, he has been utterly deceitful, presenting NO evidence, and has sought only in his hard hearted an impenitent conscience, continued to do so, but changing his story as well in an even more disgusting and despicable lie.

The man is a Reprobate, and lukewarmies like yourself couldn't care less, apparently.

Also, the God of the Bible says that the one who is sinning against ME is supposed to ASK for forgiveness:

"Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him; and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, 'I repent,' you must forgive him." Lk. 17:3 & 4.

Repent, and believe the TRUE Gospel of Jesus Christ.
The one where each speaks truth to his neighbor, whoever it might be.
God is no respecter of persons.
And if you think I have anger, then you had better wake up because God is going to throw liars into Hell. The one thing He hates is slander against another Christian.
Do you not fear God? Or do you just kiss up to men because you think they seem cool?

"For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering words they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded." Rom. 6:18.

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death." Rev. 21:8.

Better get ready, because He is coming back soon, as does not abide those who care not for the truth.

And as Jesus spoke the truth to the Papists (Pharisees) of old, so will I till His return.

Jesus is LORD.
Repent.

MikeG| 11.26.11 @ 12:12PM

Sicko.

Margie| 11.26.11 @ 9:24PM

"Why will you still be smitten, that you continue to rebel? The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
From the sole of the foot even to the head, there is no soundness in it, but bruises and sores and bleeding wounds; they are not pressed out, or bound up, or softened with oil." Is. 1:5 & 6.

Repent and believe the Gospel of God, for you are the sick one for rejecting His Words!

MikeG| 11.27.11 @ 12:30PM

Hey Sicko, I reject your sick words not God. You are one pretentious pompous sicko thinking your words are God's words.
Get Lost.

Margie| 11.27.11 @ 5:23PM

You will get lost when Jesus returns, and that will be fine with me. I can wait and will rejoice that His recompense will be swift.

Till then you have no right to tell me or anyone what to do, liar.

And I do not think my words are God's Words~ they are His, and you despise them. If you didn't, you'd be agreeing with them, but you spew hatred towards the person who speaks them.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who receives any one whom I send receives Me; and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me." Jn. 13:20.

Too bad you so despise the Word of God and Christians (not Catholics of course, as they say what your rebellious words want to hear).

MikeG| 11.28.11 @ 2:40PM

Don't count on rejoicing, sicko, by your conduct here it won't be Jesus you see.

Margie| 11.29.11 @ 1:01AM

Since I stand on the written Words of God and you are the one who rejects them, it will be you who will have cower before Him.

Pervert.

Margie| 11.29.11 @ 1:20AM

The lying Troll says:

"Hey Sicko, I reject your sick words not God."

They aren't my words, they're God's Words.
Now I will teach you something, you fool.
When the Words of God are written with quotations marks before and after them, and carefully addressed as same, it is usually recognized by most that these are from the Bible.

At least if you are a Christian you would know this, and not undertake to try and claim such an inanity as you have that someone who quotes them are "trying to think my words are God's words."

You prove what an disingenuous piece of trash you truly are.

And talk about pompous! Get lost?
Just exactly who is it that you think you are?

Repent and believe the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, lying Troll, for you are already so very lost!

DTOM| 11.23.11 @ 10:06AM

Dmac,

I live in the midwest. I have to press 1 for English all the time. I see billboards and business signs that I cannot read because I don't read Spanish. I get Spanish junk mail, walking through the local school I cannot read the kids' papers, because they are in Spanish. My church turns the itself into a Spanish church after Sunday morning services.

It even snows here. No, you're wrong, we do know how bad it is. They are everywhere.

idalily| 11.25.11 @ 12:55PM

Dmac, and all my fellow conservatives who think sending these illegals back is an option, please GET REAL.

WE ARE BROKE. We cannot afford the manpower, not at the local, state or federal level to find 30 million illegals, process the paperwork, and hold them in jails while we pay the lawyers to fight the inevitable lawsuits, before we are able (maybe) to ship them back home. Nor can we endure the endless and brutal attacks we will face as a result of our "heartlessness" at separating families and the sob stories that would be played over and over on the MSM about the poor, helpless people we are sending back to tyranny, war and poverty. It's a PR nightmare and one conservatives cannot afford and would LOSE. Not to mention the international relations nightmare if/when other countries simply refuse to take back these people. What are we going to do? Push granny over the border? Fly the plane round and round Honduras while we tangle with the government that won't let granny's plane land? WE CAN'T AFFORD IT. Any conservative who thinks the government a spending problem has to come to terms with this issue. An "enforce the law we have" philosophy is all very well, but enforce it HOW? With what government employees? Paid out of what funds? With what money? Please, fellow conservatives, get real about what can be done here. We can't afford to find and remove every illegal already here. We're trying to CUT our deficit, remember? And IMO, any conservative who thinks we can afford to send them all back is just thinking like a liberal who doesn't mind spending government money, as long as it equates with their particular philosophy of what to spend it on. Harsh? Yes. But WE ARE BROKE. Accept it and deal.

As for those who think just upping the fine on businesses will solve the problem, uh, no. Companies are required now to take copies of all paperwork (DL, Green Card, SSN card, etc) from every employee they hire, and are fined if they don't. Guess what? Most of those papers are FAKE. How is a small business going to tell the difference between a real SSN Card and a fake one? Most can't. And the way to verify authenticity of documents with the INS is a hundred times worse than dealing with the IRS. It's a logistics nightmare.

Gingrich is right, sadly, and props to him for being the first and ONLY one to tell the truth. A path to citizenship is the only viable alternative, BUT ONLY IF we secure the border, get rid of anchor babies and welfare, and find a way to help businesses genuinely and efficiently verify the legality of people's documents. That's the harsh reality, folks. But if you've got a better way, lay it out there. I'm all ears.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.23.11 @ 9:10AM

I posted this last night. And was rather surprised that only ONE Paul supporter had a reasonable reply to my question. So I'll pose it again for all of you who didn't catch it last night:

Watching daily & weekly polls is as stupid as watching the market daily for stocks. It means nothing.

And for the record, in the unlikely event of Paul's nomination, I'd vote for him. Simply because its better than who we have now. And his foreign policy would then have to undergo doses of realpolitik unlike that ever imagined by him or his supporters. I'm an "anyone but Romney & Paul" PRIMARY voter, but I'm an "anyone but Obama" Presidential voter. So that also means I'd hold my nose & vote for Mitt as well.

How many of you Paul supporters love your Republic enough to do the same? Will you be an "anyone but Obama" voter in the end? Or will you cast a de facto vote for Obama by voting 3rd party, should Paul go that way, or just staying home?

How many of you are Thomas Paine's "sunshine patriots?"

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 9:27AM

They can't answer the question. They simply can not fathom that their Messiah will not get the nomination. Some, like Clint, and maybe Jack, are planning to shoot up a synagogue somewhere on the day that Ron Paul is eliminated. You know, Ron Paul lost because of THE JOOOOOOOOOS!

Con Chef (NB) | 11.23.11 @ 9:36AM

I have no doubt. None at all in what you say.

Jack in Wi| 11.23.11 @ 12:39PM

I can easily answer that question. I won't vote for any of them. They are no better then Obama, maybe worse. Newt especially would be worse. The lesser evil would be Obama. I won't have to worry about that he has imploded, with all his baggage and his huge flopping mouth. The only other alternative who ever had has a chance to elected is Romney. I thought it might be possible to hold my nose for the 13th time and vote for him. After watching him in the debates, I can't do it. He will be more of the smae at best. He has Chertoff with his ex-ray machines as his chief national security advisor, no thanks. It truely is Ron Paul or ruin.

I have answered this question before so quit saying we are afraid to answer it. I voted for Nixon twice, Ford, both Bush's, Dole and Mc Cain. I will not vote for another loser. The country will sink if either Romney or Barry is elected. Let it sink without my punny vote and the votes of millions of rest of us disgusted and disgruntled.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.23.11 @ 1:35PM

There won't be a Republic if Obama is re-elected. Thanks for at least answering honestly.

Clint| 11.23.11 @ 9:23AM

The RINO-CINO'S Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Dmac| 11.23.11 @ 9:35AM

The original Tea Party was followed by a revolution. Who today is prepared or endorces a second American revolution? It may be what has to happen to save this country from those who's only interest is power by accomodation to America's enemies. Currently America's domestic enmeies appear to be the 20 plus million illegals in the country, corporate America who sides with profit over the financial health of the average American and both political parties. Of all the republican candidates (an I'm not a Ron Paul fan) only Ron Paul seems to understand we are a country of laws as set up by the bill of rights and the constitution. Unless something changes drastically in the field of candidates, my support is leaning towards Paul. He seems to be the only one concerned with our freedom as citizens. His forgeing policy is out thetre I must admit. But I could give a rats ass about countries like Lybia, or even Europe for that matter. We don't need to be the worlds policeman, we just need to be strong enough so that every nation knows not to screw with us.

DTOM| 11.23.11 @ 10:15AM

But he does NOT understand that enemies do not respond well to 'head-in-the-sand' foreign policy. (I'm being non-confrontational with where I sticking their foreign policy head.) Enemies take that as a sign of weakness and step up their aggression, they do not step it DOWN. In the history of the world, did anyone ever attack a country because he was sure that his victim was STRONGER than him? Ever?

Doc Paul has failed to understand this for his entire adult career. And it's lesson we can't afford to teach him on the job. Any halfway competent voter instantly sees that. So I guess I just said that the Paul supporters are not quite half competent.

Oh! That's gonna leave a mark. (For the record, I am not Catholic, I am not Jewish, and am no more fond of either group than the next American citizen. Really.)

Dmac| 11.23.11 @ 11:05AM

"But he does NOT understand that enemies do not respond well to 'head-in-the-sand' foreign policy.", thats the one thing that keeps me from really supporting him. If he could wake up and realize that the world is an evil place and America has to always be ready to defend herself, even if it means being pre-emptive.

DTOM| 11.23.11 @ 12:54PM

It is the elemental, fatal flaw in Libertarian thinking. Ron Paul is running as a Republican because the Libertarian Party is incapable of mounting a competent national campaign; the Republicans, however, can.

We'll have a good conservative candidate, IF and only if, the right conservative can fight his way through the inside-out, upside down process the Republicans now utilize.

Look it this way:

In the '60's through the '90's, the usual Republican Presidential campaign strategy was:
"Run to the right in the primaries, run to the middle in the general election." However, Ronald Reagan ran to the right in the primaries and the general election, and won both times.

Nowadays, it looks like the strategy is:

Run to the middle in the primaries (to prove 'electability') and run right in the general (to prove sanity in an insane polity...)

That's what it's going to take to make this work. Unfortunately Romney won't go hard right ever. Newt is too brilliant and unfocused. Paul is a Libertarian. Herman Cain, Michele, the two Ricks probably would, although Perry would be more Romneylike (Don't go telling me I don't have a heart because I won't pander to border criminals, Gov.)

Huntsman? He's a Democrat plant aiming to drag the Republicans away from the Tea Party. Global warming? C'mon! Oh yea, Newt and Romney have agreed with him, in the past...

So, you see, I still like Herman Cain....

BackToBasics| 11.26.11 @ 2:05AM

Me too. Cain is not out of it yet. I think we have along race ahead of us. After 4 or 5 states primaries are finished I think Cain, Gingrich, Romney and Paul will still be contenders. No knockout ounches at that point for the top 4. But Bachman, Perry and Santorum's backers will more likely go to Cain in larger numbers than the others once they drop out.

I think it will be a long race with Cain, Romney or Gingrich getting the nomination and Paul possibly running a 3rd party candidacy. But I'd like to see Cain win it.

BackToBasics| 11.26.11 @ 2:06AM

sp - a long
knockout punches

Otis the Hand | 11.23.11 @ 9:47AM

I agree that we desperately need to reform LEGAL immigration while getting tough on ILLEGAL immigration. It think that was Newt's essential point. I anecdotally believe that most Republicans agree. You have to be grasping to manufacture a "Rick Perry looks at the camera and calls people heartless" moment from that. I note that Gringrich's words do not stand on their own in your column, Mr. Neumayr. You felt the need to interpret for us.

As to why Newt did not "take it" to Romney on his flip-flopping, the answer is very simple. Newt is just as vulnerable to the same charges. Newt would have gained nothing. I see it as the tacit application of the M.A.D. strategy between Newt and Romney.

Lastly, you are compelled to insult all the candidates with your snide remark about superior intellectual firepower not being a "terribly difficult feat in this field." Shame on you. With friends like you, who needs enemies? Any of them are leagues superior to teleprompter boy.

chuck| 11.23.11 @ 10:00AM

Gingrich has made it a point NOT to attack the follow candidates on the stage. He is trying to take the high road, and focus on solutions to the problems. He's saying, vote for me because......., not, vote for me because my opponents are.........
He also has stated, many times, that EVERYONE on the stage is an improvement over the current President. Something everyone should remember!

godisanenglishman| 11.23.11 @ 9:52AM

Illegal Alien = Detect, Arrest, Detain, Deport (DADD). No if's, ands, or buts.

9thID| 11.23.11 @ 10:29AM

Start enforcing the existing laws on the books and within one year, self-deportation will have removed 80% of the illegals -- no matter where they came from...

idalily| 11.26.11 @ 6:57PM

With what money? WE ARE BROKE. We can't afford to do what you are demanding. Please, please, fellow conservatives, get real about immigration. We can enforce going forward, but we can't afford to find and remove the illegals already here. We don't have the money.

guard dog| 11.23.11 @ 10:19AM

A thief is a thief is a thief. PERIOD. Plain, simple easy to understand. Whether it be hub caps, tv's money, lampshades or bernie made-off script. it is thievery. Sneaking across the border is no diffrent. As the thief steals and takes his heist to the money launderer or fence at a much marked down price, so the illegal immigrant cheapens the manual labor market. It is illegal to buy stolen hub caps or other merchandise, no matter how low the price. So should it be illegal to purchase stolen wages from the mouths of honest, hungry hard working Americans, just to make fruit and veggies cheap. As in the theft of hub caps, there are consquences and costs involved. Such as everyones insurance goes up. The thief eventually raises his target to higher tag items, say to cars perhaps, or to kidnapping or drugs. All the while sending money 'home' urging others to come to the feast of easy pickins. Bring grandpa he can get us more foodstamps, bring the pregrant neice, her baby can get us anchor citizenship. Screw NEWRT. Anyone that can't remember 250,000,000 whites outnumber 50,000,000 minorities best forget measuring the curtains for the white house.

loulou| 11.23.11 @ 10:24AM

Newt let his mask slip.
He's a compassionate "conservative."

I didn't like Newt in the first place.

9thID| 11.23.11 @ 10:34AM

Newt comes across just like Obama does -- as an arrogant professorial lecturer. Newt's baggage could fill a Fed-Ex cargo plane, and it keeps expanding exponentially...

idalily| 11.26.11 @ 6:58PM

He is also the ONLY candidate on stage who has proven he can and is willing to reduce spending. HIs Speakership proves that.

Margie| 11.26.11 @ 9:28PM

There is not a living soul who has not baggage.
There is forgiveness if there is true repentance.. but not without it.
As to a President? Better is a forgiven serial Adulterer than an unrepentant Socialist.

George S| 11.23.11 @ 10:31AM

Which of the "family values" espouses breaking the law?

Newt is more concerned with settled voting blocs more that settled families. Again, Republicans are doing Stupid Party tricks -- accepting the premise that by being perceived as non-(fill in the blank), they will peel off some hostile voters. But they instead should look to Obama, who is practicing basic campaigning: first, do no harm to your base. Newt should pay attention.

Kingofthenet| 11.23.11 @ 10:32AM

I don't think much of Social Conservatives but PLEASE stop treating them like Children, and as much as I hate Newt at least he is facing reality of illegal immigration. Here are the facts, you can mine the border, put the entire 1st ID on the border, electric fence whatever it isn't going to make much of a difference? Why? Because MOST illegals come by plane after overstaying their 'vacation' to see the Big Mouse in Florida.Amnesty IS a valid option for those long term illegal residents with teenage AMERICAN children with no criminal record either that or be prepared to turn on TV and see families getting 'ripped apart' with plenty of tears. The WORST thing is doing nothing because that just insures that some family that 'overstays' it's vacation in Nov.2011, is going to be a settled 'American' family in 2030. Border security is a TOTALLY separate issue and almost immaterial because if we did have an Amnesty program implemented NOW, it would have cut off's that wouldn't allow that 'new' group of illegals who just got off that plane today to get a foothold.

martin j smith| 11.23.11 @ 10:44AM

When you talk about thinking "strategically" do you mean lying ? or as some other commentator put it: Pivoting. In any case a moment does not make or break a campaign unless they say they support Socialism or come thru as an Anti-American for example blaming America for 9/11-that is Anti-American they support Socialism
In any case lets roll along and not get bogged down by one nanobyte. Thank me very much.

Casey Abell| 11.23.11 @ 10:56AM

I'm lazy, so I'll just crosspost a couple of my comments from NRO. After John Derbyshire delievered his predictable rant against Gingrich on immigration, I wrote...

It's always nice to be lectured by a guy who broke as many U.S. immigration laws as he could, for years.

But Derbyshire's reeking hypocrisy on illegal immigration is an ancient story. What isn't so ancient is Gingrich stepping on the immigration land mine. Jonathan Tobin sums it up best at Commentary:

"Perry made sense on this issue, as did Gingrich tonight. But the consequences for Gingrich should be swift and severe. If Perry’s heresy on immigration hurt him badly in Iowa, there’s no reason to believe an even more extreme position by Gingrich will not turn his current high hopes in the Hawkeye state to dust."

I don't know that Gingrich hurt himself quite so much. At least he didn't call most Republicans "heartless." But the amnesty thing is radioactive for the base. As Tobin observes, it reminds everybody that Newt is to the left of Mitt on many issues.

I would advise Gingrich to get off the a-word immediately. And I don't mean the word for his bottom.

By the way, over at American Spectator George Neumayr is savaging Gingrich on immigration. And most of the time Neumayr slavishly kisses up to whoever is the latest not-Romney.

Newt's got to get off this issue. Even pundits who agree with him, like Tobin, think it's a big loser for him. And chatterers who disagree, like Neumayr and Derbyshire and [NRO's Mark] Krikorian, will crush him with it.

The Big E| 11.23.11 @ 11:15AM

"Romney took advantage of Newt's little sermonette by reminding the audience that he staunchly opposed amnesty in any of its guises."

Right. Romney and his staunch, consistent, views. Like his staunch, consistent support of the second amend . . . uh . . . well, that's not best example. OK then, his staunch, consistent opposition to socialized mede . . . well . . . maybe that's not a good example either. Oh yeah, his staunch, consistent opposition to abor . . .

Well, I'm sure there's something he's always had a staunch, consistent position on. Oh yeah, now I remember. His own election.

Whatever Mitt Romney said on that stage last night, whatever he says anytime, is designed solely to con voters into supporting him. The extent to which what he says has any consistency with the way he will govern is purely coincidental.

I am not a big Newt fan - though I will not hesitate to vote for him over Obama (or over Romney in the primary). He has done some colossally stupid things over the years - many of which he admits to (unlike Romney, who STILL defends Romneycare). But I don't know if we can afford many colossally stupid moments from the Commander in Chief.

Of course, after the last three colossally stupid years, colossal stupidity being limited to only a few moments would be an improvement.

DTOM| 11.23.11 @ 11:34AM

Social Security was a perennial land mine. It seems to be slowly losing its sacred cow status. Marco Rubio and Paul Ryan have not been blown to bits and their hand and footprints are all over it.

And Newt may have found a way integrate the illegals. His "Yes, we'll make you a legal resident if you have behaved for twenty five years, but no citizenship for you!" plan solves a couple of problems without the Democrat windfall of new voters accompanying amnesty that would have resulted in a general amnesty, the "citizenship for criminals" plan.

Newt doesn't repay crime with citizenship.
Newt deprives the Democrats of grateful ex-criminals votes, i.e. amnestied illegals.
Newt does not give incentive to new illegals immigrating.
Newt allows ICE to have a more manageable target: a smaller number of recidivist illegals who would be unsympathetic to most law abiding citizens and legal residents (former illegal aliens...)
Newt makes illegal immigration a crime again, rather than an improperly-inferred human right as the Democrats and Socialists try to portray it.

He would still be a lousy President because of his life-threatening case of ADD. Wasn't he supposed to talking foreign policy last night.

And another thing, oh look isn't that a migrating monarch butterf

GW| 11.23.11 @ 12:46PM

Why do conservatives only think of the economy when speaking of immigration?

The issue isn't about economic costs/benefits, but about American sovereignty. The United States is a majority-white, English speaking country which favors individualism and under that demographic grew into the greatest world-power ever. Low-IQ Mestizos from Mexico certainly don't have the capabilities of building or maintaining a comparable society--look at the corruption in Mexico or even California.

DTOM| 11.23.11 @ 12:56PM

GW,

I talked about immigration and didn't mention the economy and I'm a conservative.

Gary B| 11.23.11 @ 1:00PM

Above intellect, executive experience and previous election success, a presidental candidate needs strong character. His or her staff can handle the rest.

Oh, and one other thing, he or she needs to be comfortable telling the press where they can shove their political correctness.

Ron| 11.23.11 @ 1:21PM

I am going to speak from my Washingtonian conservatism and go out on a limb...The time for compassion, love, kumbaya, and appeasement is OVER!!!!!

Illegals...Too damn bad, deport them...All...If US citizens really want jobs, whether it is waiting and bussing tables (which I have done in the past), landscaping (i.e. mowing lawns...however, no one I know hires anyone to do that job, we all do it ourselves), day labour, etc...Then jobs will be there.

Time to put the "Only Wash Sometimes" out into the cold, hard world....No more supportive statements from the liars in DC...Any statement made supporting their marxist ideology, including from NerObama is treason, plain and simple...Any statement about destroying privately owned property, or public buildings is terrorism and will be dealt with as such.

Time to tell other western countries they need to stand on their own two feet and provide for their own common defense...We will be there to help our allies, and destroy our actual enemies who attack US citizens and interests (our embassies, for example) but beyond that, Germany, Japan, etc. can buy the actual buildings on bases we built in their countries.

Jabber3| 11.23.11 @ 1:22PM

Gingrich is the only Speaker in the House’s 222 year history to have been disciplined for ethics violations. During his term he had 84 ethics charges filed against him and in January of 1997 the House voted 395 to 28 to reprimand Gingrich which included a $300,000 fine. Special counsel James M. Cole concluded that Gingrich had violated tax law and lied to the investigating panel. He was asked to resign but refused, however, in November of 1998 after the Republicans lost more seats he saw the writing on the wall and he resigned from the House in disgrace. No House member has ever been elected president

Jack in Wi| 11.23.11 @ 1:38PM

I agree with all you say about Gingrich. However James Garfield was a house member who served 9 terms.

Otis the Hand | 11.23.11 @ 5:38PM

"Gingrich is the only Speaker in the House’s 222 year history to have been disciplined for ethics violations."

Which was a total joke, the result of Evilcrats partisan politics and Republican backstabbing/caving. I don't believe there was a single charge of substance, much like the Scooter Libby kangaroo court.

Margie| 11.26.11 @ 9:30PM

Otis, you are correct.

John C.| 11.23.11 @ 1:29PM

You should hear a convoluted speaking El-Rushbo spinning for RINO Newt by saying Newtie only wants to make illegals legal, not citizens, whereas Flip Romney earlier said to make them citizens.

Rush does not realize that snake oil salesmen Newt and Romney are twin Flippers. Rush loves RINOs and especially globalist RINOs -- remember Dubai Ports.

Folks we are in deep trouble. Let’s at least win the Senate.

Margie| 11.23.11 @ 1:30PM

Hmm. Now let me see...
Newt or Obama?
Cain or Obama?
Perry or Obama?
Romney or Obama?
(Ron Paul hasn't a chance, nor does Huntsman IMHO).
Is the sky blue?

Clint| 11.23.11 @ 1:56PM

" Ron Paul is surging, an Iowa and New Hampshire front-runner and powerful third-party possibility
By Brent Budowsky - 11/21/11 10:04 AM ET

There are now multiple polls that show Ron Paul has gained support and has a legitimate chance to come in first or second in Iowa and New Hampshire. I would now call Ron Paul one of three front-runners in both Iowa and New Hampshire alongside Mitt Romney and a third candidate, currently Newt Gingrich. If Ron Paul wins Iowa, which he might, all bets are off. Also, most analysts miss the fact that many states have open systems where independents, and in some cases Democrats, can vote for a Republican nominee. This could give a further boost to Paul.

It is now time to give Ron Paul the attention he deserves in debates and throughout the political community."

The Tea Party RebellionIs In Iowa.

Jack London| 11.23.11 @ 2:09PM

The only think Newt thinks strategically about is stuffing his bank account with huge cash bribes from Freddie Mac and others.

Margie| 11.24.11 @ 7:03PM

It wasn't a bribe.
You know, Jack~ unless you LOVE the truth, you won't be saved.
Guess what from?

martin j smith| 11.23.11 @ 2:13PM

That candidate that is in line with fears and anxiety of the American voters. pundits such as the writer are supporting another candidate (that is mt view)
and are focusing on one part of what newt said and not the complete idea. Being up front about ones views . I have little faith in many pundits even those who claim they are " Conservative" who jump on a candidate without doing the same for others. I have not made a decision of who I support but I will in the end vote for the nominee
with two exceptions ( Huntsman and Paul ) even if I have serious reservations about that person such as Romney. The polls are good and should give the candidates a message about their need to do more like Bachman and Santorum or Cain. In the end it is up to each candidate to make their case and go outside the debate system and give speeches, hold pressers or go on media opportunities or whatever. And say something, do something. The polls give an idea of which candidate has caught the current imagination thus Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney and Herman Cain more or less in that order are the first three.
Ron Paul could rise if he minimizes his isolation
policies and Anti-Americanism--but he better be ready to be questioned about what he really believes in. That would include this question: What is your reaction to those supporters of yours who talk about "Israel Firsters". Do you agree that American Jews who support Israel are only Israel firsters and not Americana First. ? I would dare him to answer that question.

Wayne| 11.23.11 @ 4:20PM

Paul stands on the constitution.The government has to answer to ALL its citizens.

Margie| 11.23.11 @ 2:21PM

If this were a skin-head nation, Ron Paul could win, but it's not.
Thank God!!

Clint| 11.27.11 @ 5:34AM

The RINO-CINO Margie Says She Will Vote ForThe RINO-CINO Frontman, Mittens Romney.

" Ron Paul is surging, an Iowa and New Hampshire front-runner and powerful third-party possibility
By Brent Budowsky - 11/21/11 10:04 AM ET

There are now multiple polls that show Ron Paul has gained support and has a legitimate chance to come in first or second in Iowa and New Hampshire. I would now call Ron Paul one of three front-runners in both Iowa and New Hampshire alongside Mitt Romney and a third candidate, currently Newt Gingrich. If Ron Paul wins Iowa, which he might, all bets are off. Also, most analysts miss the fact that many states have open systems where independents, and in some cases Democrats, can vote for a Republican nominee. This could give a further boost to Paul.

It is now time to give Ron Paul the attention he deserves in debates and throughout the political community."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here And In Iowa.

Margie| 11.27.11 @ 5:29PM

Clint the anti-Christ will prove that he is a true RINO-CINO for the second time that we know of, as he will not vote for whoever the Republican nominee is, and will not do so because it isn't his anti-American cult leader, Ron Paul.

You are so filled with the lies of the Devil himself that you are only able to project yourself onto others.

I hope you repent and believe the true Gospel of God, along with the rest of your idolator Papist Paul-bot partners in crime against the God of the Bible.

What a person believes is what he lives.
It's either lies and idolatry~ or the truth according to the Scriptures.

Steve| 11.28.11 @ 8:37PM

You may have reached a new low in stupidity by mixing your cult beliefs with politics. So now we have to agree with your politics and cult or else we will go to hell.
Get help Margie.

Margie| 11.29.11 @ 1:10AM

The Scriptures are my Religion, and Christ Jesus is my Lord.
I despise lying fools such as you, and so does the God of the Bible.
Your cult of false Religion, ie. Catholicism leads you to be such a lying fool.
Catholic Papists fools like you have always called Bible believing Christians idiots and stupid~ too stupid to believe the lies and Apostate teachings of your cult, and put them to death for SIX CENTURIES.
You're yet just another generation of hateful lying idolators who choose to worship a fraud in robes pretending to be Christ on earth, and therefore mocks the Lord of Glory and spits in His Face!
Lying Troll~ you already have your reward.
Lotsa luck.

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, through the pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and enjoin abstinence from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving; for then it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer." 1 Tim. 4:1-5.

God's Holy Spirit already knew about the Apostate Religion of Catholicism from before the foundation of the World!

Repent, liar!

Ricky Mann| 11.23.11 @ 2:37PM

All the security issues US is facing now are the consequences of its unconditional suport of Israel. That was not used to be a US problem, but now it is. As a result the country is in dept and some people still think we should send our young people to die to fight Israel cause.

Wayne| 11.23.11 @ 4:16PM

Newt was thinking strategically. I would say he intends to bring in Rubio as his running mate and he sees Rubio as being able to support a Newt plan. Obviously it is an unworkable plan. It is no our responsibility to pay for the deportation. Dry up the jobs, and they will go on their own.
Newt is as somebody suggested playing the compassionate conservative route, which just shows his lack of understanding of how bad the economy really is. We cant afford the compassionate route. It is no longer an option.

BackToBasics| 11.23.11 @ 4:25PM

Gingrich is more a pragmatist than a conservative. He speaks of making illegals with roots here legal as opposed to citizens.

But no doubt after a 3 or 5 year waiting period they will then be elligible to apply for citizenship. About 60% to 70% of them will vote Democrat. We've already got the stats on this!

I'm not speaking about Gingrich here per se but the idea that Republicans will ever win a majority of Hispanics thorugh a legalization process, guest worker program, etc. is just a pipe dream. It will relegate Republicans to the minority party forever in about 15 years or even less. Since RINOs have pushed illegal immigration since 1986, and since this will kill the Republican I begin to think that there really is no difference between a RINO and a Democrat.

There is either no difference or else RINOs are the most stupid people in the world regarding long-term party strategy. No other political entity I can think of or at least know about ignores such easily-deduced demographics or statistics as they march over the poltical cliff. Not even Democrats are that supid when they look at the long term.

Purpleguy| 11.23.11 @ 6:07PM

Gingrich is more a pragmatist than a conservative - and a serial adulterer - hardly a conservative principle.

BackToBasics| 11.23.11 @ 9:19PM

I've heard enough to know I don't like what he's done. Cain is a good man and was thrown overboard after a smear campaign caused many conservatives to focus only on his weaknesses and ignore his strengths. With Gingrich many look only at his strengths and ignore his weaknesses.

Like many, I'll vote for Gingrich but only in the general election if he is the candidate. I'll support him the primaries only if it comes down to a race between him and Romney and all other viable candidates have dropped out.

Simon Templar| 11.24.11 @ 11:16AM

Yeah, you are right, it is a liberal principle. So, you should have no problem voting for Newt like you did with Clinton. Both men are pragmatist as well. There you go, you know who you are going to vote for in 2012.

Margie| 11.24.11 @ 7:05PM

Ahh simon, well stated as always.

Kingofthenet| 11.23.11 @ 5:58PM

Whenever I hear guys like Chuck saying you can't get any good Americans to do...CONSTRUCTION, you gotta be kidding me, what he is REALLY saying is I can't get skilled workers for the pittance I am paying with no bennies. The Union Hall never seems to run out of highly skilled people, oh wait yeah they do expect Good Wages.

Purpleguy| 11.23.11 @ 6:06PM

So why don't they get down on the employers of low wage illegals? Without the job open, there would be no illegals. It's the employers' doing. And if lettuce has to be 2.50/head to do it, so be it - lock up all employers that hire illegals... period.

Kingofthenet| 11.23.11 @ 6:27PM

Hey I am liberal, but I am 100% down with that. I can tell you a couple things, right off the bat.Chuck doesn't do any Govt. work, when you build a school or town hall it HAS to be Union Workers or even if they are not they have to paid to scale. If we stopped employing these people they wouldn't flood in like ants, don't even get me started on skilled H1B visas DESTROYING Hi Paying tech jobs.

chuck| 11.24.11 @ 9:31AM

There were stories from south Georgia of crops rotting in the fields because the farmers were unable to obtain the labor to harvest them after the illegals left. Georgia passed a tougher anti-immigration law, and many illegals left on their own. The reports were on every radio and TV station, and even though we have 10% unemployment here, no one wanted to work in the fields of South Georgia. Hell, I bet your pansy-ass wouldn't last 10 minutes out there, when its 105 degrees and 60% humidity. I've seen guys like you, had them work for me, didn't make it one day working out in the hot sun, no shade anywhere, 100+ degrees, working on concrete that was poured 1 day before. Or working when it's 10 degrees outside, with snow and ice covering everything, wind blowing 30 mph, up on a roof.
Prove to me that you are willing to do this work, and maybe I'll start believing the crap your spewing. You are completely ignorant of the realities.

Kingofthenet| 11.24.11 @ 11:29AM

Well I don't work for free or substandard wages, while I have friends who moved to Georgia for the cheap housing, getting a decent paying job is hard. Besides rent is cheap but is a Chevy or a Sony TV?

chuck| 11.24.11 @ 2:02PM

"Well I don't work for free or substandard wages"

No, people like you would rather suck of the government teat through unemployment, than lower yourself to doing whatever it would take for you to make it on your own.
And is a brand new Chevy, or a Sony TV really necessary for you to survive?
Pathetic.

Margie| 11.24.11 @ 7:17PM

Heh, my husband got aid off 2 years ago. We were living nicely in NJ. Yet, when he couldn't get hired again, we picked up and moved to Ohio. Not only were we able to pay cash for our old house, but the property taxes are 205.00 a YEAR!

Where there's a will, there's a way.
And when the going gets tough, the tough gets ebaying.

chuck| 11.24.11 @ 8:41PM

Absolutely Margie!
I am now making in a month what I used to make in a week. But you know what? I sold the big house, which I had built myself, paid cash for a foreclosure, did a complete renovation, and am now living in a home that is paid for. Where there is a will, there is a way. You just have to have the determination to make the best out of a bad situation.
And I thank God everyday for the blessings I have received.

Kingofthenet| 11.24.11 @ 9:54PM

Chuck, I wasn't the one to make this personal, for me it's more a general philosophical idea, than you in particular doing anything wrong. My point simply is your employees NEED certain things like Health Care, now if you pay them so they can afford it on their own fine, otherwise TaxPayers are on the hook for your cheapness.

chuck| 11.25.11 @ 8:04AM

King,
Accept my apologies, I get a little worked up from time to time. My initial response was actually directed towards purpleguy, but when you responded, I sort of launched on you. Sorry. My point is, from my experience, there really are jobs that are very difficult to fill with American labor, no matter the pay scale. Purpleguy said he'd be willing to pay more for lettuce, but how about not being able to get it at all? Or having to import it from Mexico, because the labor is unavailable to harvest it? These are some very real possibilities. From my experience, there are jobs that American don't want to do, and as long as we continue to pay people NOT to work, the unemployed will refuse to do this work.
Again, sorry I got personal, while I don't agree with you on many things, I do enjoy a different point of view.

Purpleguy| 11.26.11 @ 5:36PM

"because the farmers were unable to obtain the labor to harvest them after the illegals left" - That sure sounds to me like they were unable to the labor at the pay rate they wanted to pay. Have you never heard of dairy farmers dumping milk on the ground because they didn't get enough price for their milk? Or florists that dump flowers when they didn't sell, rather than give them away?
In any case, show me where the farmers offered at least minimum wage in Georgian farms for harvesters and then you have something to say. Otherwise, your just a walking talking point.

chuck| 11.27.11 @ 1:09AM

Purple, even for you, this is a stupid comment. The illegals left because of a new state law. 14,000 job openings in South Georgia, 10% unemployment state-wide, and they could not find people to take the jobs. I stated this clearly before. What part of that did you not understand? Are you willingly this stupid?
When you pay people not to work, they won't! Stop paying people not to work, and they will be forced to take jobs like these farm jobs.
And,BTW, you are a liberal, so it's your party that is most determined to keep the border open, so quit being a damned hypocrite about this. It's your boy Obama's Justice Dept. that keeps suing states to stop them from enforcing Federal anti-immigration laws.

Kingofthenet| 11.23.11 @ 6:33PM

Here are the NYC Union Carpenter Wages:the union carpenter rate for a 4 year aprentice journeymen carpenter is about 24 dollars an hour in the pocket with health insurance, pension, and an enuity fund on top of that.


Below is your answer:

CARPENTER BUILDING
COMMERCIAL
APPRENTICE WAGES (PER HOUR)
(JULY 1, 2008 TO JUNE 30, 2009)
First Year $17.21
Second Year $21.51
Third Year $27.96
Fourth Year $34.42

ALL APPRENTICES
FRINGE BENEFITS (PER HOUR)
(JULY 1, 2008 TO JUNE 30, 2009)
Welfare $10.25
Pension $5.41
Supplemental Pension $1.00
Annuity $3.30
A.J.R.E.I.F. $0.70
Vacation $3.28
Supplemental $0.04
Int'l Brotherhood of Carp (IBC) $0.08
NYDCC Labor Mmgt $0.30
Total Fringes $24.36

CARPENTER BUILDING
COMMERCIAL
WAGES (PER HOUR)
(JULY 1, 2008 TO JUNE 30, 2009)
Journeyman $43.02
Foreman $46.02
General Foreman $49.02

JOURNEYMAN, FOREMAN, & GENERAL FOREMAN
FRINGE BENEFITS (PER HOUR)
(JULY 1, 2008 TO JUNE 30, 2009)
Welfare $10.25
Pension $10.81
Supplemental Pension $1.00
Annuity $6.60
A.J.R.E.I.F. $0.70
Vacation $$6.56
Supplemental $0.04
Int'l Brotherhood of Carp (IBC) $0.08
NYDCC Labor Mmgt $0.30
Total Fringes $36.34

chuck| 11.24.11 @ 9:22AM

And please explain to me, oh, Kingofthenet, what wages in NYC, one of the most expensive places in the country to live and work, has to do with me. I am nowhere near NYC, and surely don't give a rat's behind as to what union wages are there.
Surely, you are not so ignorant as to assume that wages are the same across the country. They vary from state to state, and from region to region inside of states.
Of course the pay scale is double the going rate of Georgia, where I live and work. But the cost of housing is at least 3 times higher, plus the state and local taxes are much higher. If the cost of living is higher, then the wages that are paid must be higher.
Such a simple concept, I really can't believe I had to explain it.

Margie| 11.24.11 @ 7:07PM

Hey chuck, if you're in Ohio we will hire you. My husband and I just bought an old house and it needs work!

Happy Thanksgiving! And God bless!

chuck| 11.24.11 @ 8:48PM

If I was there, I would definitely love to do it for you. The house we bought May 2010 was a disaster, but the price was right. Great lot, almost an acre, great location, 2 miles from I75, structurally sound, new roof. A year and a half and a complete renovation later, and you'd never know it was the same house. The neighbors can't believe it. Best part is it is paid for! No mortgage, no rent. Love it!
Good luck with fixing up your house!

Margie| 11.25.11 @ 10:28PM

"I have been young, and now am old; yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken or his children begging bread." Ps. 37:25.

God bless you, Christian.

astonerii| 11.23.11 @ 8:57PM

he is thinking strategically. There is no point trying to get Romney Supporters, they are Paulnuts fanatical about supporting Romney. What he has to do is get more and more of the other candidate's voters to jump ship to him. He is not going to do that by attacking their preferred candidate, as that will push them to pick someone else. Newt is being nice in order to gain trust, admiration and eventually support when the other candidates start losing their supporters. Strategically, I call that top notch out side of the box thinking.

QinPDX| 11.23.11 @ 9:14PM

I've come to the conclusion that the only way a third party candidate will emerge in this election is if Ron Paul wins the GOP nomination. His followers have proven to be such Self Absorbed Tools that no sensible conservative will ever sant to be associated with them. But on the Newt Gingrich/immigration topic, everyone is overlooking what Newt said about LOCAL review boards. If some county in southern Arizona wants to deport every single immigrant who is here illegally then they can do that. If some city in Idaho wants to be a bit more lenient, then they are free to do that. The Federal Government caused this problem, and Newt has suggested a sensible LOCALly controlled solution. This is NOT "compassionate conservatism" is is SMART conservatism. You ideo-purists who say "deport them all" are just living in la-la land. You seriously think we can deport all 13 million people? How? You seriously think that after deporting the first 6 million that the remaining 7 million are just going to sit in their living rooms and wait for the cops? Give me a break. Get off your talk-radio driven high horses and think for a second. Newt's proposal is a sound one that secures the border, turns OFF magnets, and allows us to treat human beings like the human beings they are. The fact that it allows the GOP to stop forcing all Hispanics into the Democratic party is a handy byproduct.

BackToBasics| 11.25.11 @ 4:24PM

I'll believe that the Feds will secure the border when I see it. The problem is one of human nature and not something that can be fixed with the best intentions and smart policies. The human nature problem is that Democrats are seen as much more likely to give away "easy money." No matter what Republicans do, once the illegals are given a legal status, first, they will eventually be granted citizenship and second, 60% to 70% will vote Democrat.

But the first thing that must be done to try to bring this undercontrol is strongly secure the border and I am a believer in building a wall along the entire southern border. We could do it with about 2 -3 days of current Federal government spending levels (more than 10 billion a day). Take 2 days worth, more than 20 billion and divide it by 2,000 miles. It rounds down to 10 million dollars per mile to build a fence. If it costs twice that amount it would still be only 4 days of current government spending to build it.

And if someone wants to argue that 20 million dollars / mile would not be enough to build it then double it to 40 million per mile. It is still far less expensive than what we are paying now to support illegals here.

QinPDX| 11.23.11 @ 9:17PM

Oh, and I'll add that the author is overlooking the blatantly obvious. Much of Newt's rise in the polls has been credited to the fact that he has been a "statesman" and NOT attacked his fellow Republicans in the debates. And Mr. George Neumayr's brilliant criticism is that Newt failed to attack Romney in a debate? Wow, George, your mother must be very proud...

POST American| 11.23.11 @ 9:48PM

---------------------BOTTOM LINE---------------------

NEWT 'Getting-RICH' is a pusher of
the very worst aspects of the waiting to
be prosecuted EUGENICS agenda for
America and the world.

A sicko-phant to such monsters as the
Toffler's and their pro-sovietization screed
'The Third Wave' ---Gingrich is, at every
turn, a meltdown Globalist --and was a KEY
presiding figure during the very height of
the Globalist RED China sellout and TREASON
OP.

He remains wholly unrepentant.

Newt Gingrich has NO place on ANY
conservative, or even American, platform.

---------------HUAC/ Nuremberg 2012----------------

Jorge Ramos| 11.25.11 @ 10:01AM

Gingrich's Leadership in 1996 Helped Ensure that Illegal Aliens Could Sink Deeper Roots in the U.S.
The mainstream news media is filled with awe that Newt Gingrich showed some "compassion" for illegal aliens in last night's GOP presidential debate. A look at his record while in Congress shows this is nothing new.
In fact, Gingrich's leadership in Congress is one of the reasons we have so many illegal aliens today who have been able to stay in this country for 25 years.
That's the supreme irony of Gingrich's pro-amnesty remarks in Tuesday night's debate. The man who helped ensure that illegal aliens from the 1980s and 1990s are still here in 2011 asked voters this week to consider the inhumanity of making illegal aliens leave this country after they have sunk such long roots here.
If, while Speaker of the House in the 1990s, Gingrich had shown any leadership in stopping illegal immigration, there would be very few illegal aliens still here from the 1980s and 1990s because they wouldn't have been able to hold payroll jobs.
Nobody pushed him Tuesday night to take a pro-amnesty stand. He volunteered it! By focusing on long-term illegal aliens, he took a big risk that the media spotlight (or at least the internet and talk radio spotlight) would shine on his long-term record with those illegal aliens.
What the spotlight will find is that Gingrich worked with Big Business lobbyists to make sure that employers could continue to hire illegal workers, and thus sink roots that would be used by pro-amnesty politicians to justify legalizing them today.
We hear the same arguments from the National Council of La Raza, from the ACLU, from the National Immigration Forum -- all of them cite the lack of past enforcement (which they impeded at every turn) as having allowed illegal aliens to sink such long roots that it would be unjust to make them go home now.
Gingrich reaffirmed his support for some legalizations several times. Here is his first comment:
"If you've been here 25 years and you got three kids and two grandkids, you've been paying taxes and obeying the law, you belong to a local church, I don't think we're going to separate you from your family, uproot you forcefully and kick you out."
-- Newt Gingrich
He went on to indicate that he would give them permanent legal residency and permanent work permits, but not U.S. citizenship. He and his supporters in the media say it isn't amnesty if the illegal aliens don't get citizenship. I suppose that is supposed to make the unemployed American who is left without a job feel better.
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION WOULD NOT BE A TOPIC IN PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES IF SPEAKER GINGRICH IN 1996 HAD TAKEN DIFFERENT IMMIGRATION POSITIONS
The political stars were in alignment in 1995-96 when the bi-partisan U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform (appointed by the Senate and the House, and chaired by Barbara Jordan) issued its recommendations to protect vulnerable American workers. The immigration subcommittees of both House and Senate quickly presented legislation to carry out the recommendations to cut legal immigration in half and to stop illegal immigration, primarily by removing the jobs magnet.

As Speaker of the House, Gingrich was in the pivotal position to help Immigration Subcommittee Chairman Lamar Smith push through the 1996 comprehensive bill that set up the verification program that eventually was named "E-Verify."
The Commission had found that illegal immigration was booming in the 10 years since the 1986 blanket amnesty because illegal aliens had found it was still easy to obtain and keep U.S. jobs.

What did Speaker Gingrich do? Gingrich tried to kill the new job verification system entirely. Fortunately, the killer amendment he supported failed. No thanks to Gingrich, we have an E-Verify system today. But the E-Verify system is entirely VOLUNTARY today because of another House vote which Gingrich won. That vote was to make sure that the verification system would NOT be MANDATORY for employers.

The nation's Big Business lobbies deemed it essential that employers maintain the ability to cheat the paper verification system and hire illegal workers. Speaker Gingrich saw to it that the ability continued.
If Speaker Gingrich had thrown his considerable talents and power behind the bi-partisan recommendations and supported Lamar Smith, most of the illegal aliens who arrived since then would not have bothered. And most of the illegal aliens who arrived before 1996 -- with less than 10 years of roots in this country -- would have gone back home.
Illegal immigration would not be topic of the 2012 Presidential debates.
And conservatives would not be in a nationwide fight right now to support Rep. Lamar Smith once again (this time as chair of the Judiciary Committee) in yet another attempt to pass a mandatory verification bill (H.R. 2885). Nor would we see states across the country passing their own immigration enforcement laws -- because the number of illegal aliens would be so small.

PREFERENCE FOR FOREIGN WORKERS OVER AMERICAN WORKERS IS NOTHING NEW FOR GINGRICH.

e pearse | 11.25.11 @ 11:05AM

Message to Neumayr: poppy-cock.

Gingrich has the guts to explain what is a reality too big for blind Neumayr to see: You cannot, repeat, cannot, possibly expel 10 million illegal families out of the country. It cannot be done. And Neumayr can close his eyes and use the issue for partisan attacks, but the admiration should go to Gingrich for telling the TRUTH.

The question remains: why are there so many Republicans that want their Party to commit electoral suicide?
They stupidly maintain their attacks on the fastest growing minority in the nation. In a vacuum they can be legalistically right all day long, but
they can take that claim home because that is where they are heading instead into elected office.

Jorge Ramos| 11.26.11 @ 9:52AM

Hey Gringo. You are so smart! Check out the actual statistics in states where new immigration laws are being enforced. 1) new illegals are not arriving 2) illegals are leaving in droves, moving to other states or going back to their own countries. It's called self-deportation. No one is seriously arguing for compulsory mass deportations done by the police and you know it. You and your other idiot gringos who don't know how to defend your own country and are the laughing stock of the world. You like to set up this straw man argument so you can feel better about your own cowardice. We American citizens of Spanish descent know how to protect this great country. Its really very simple gringo. Enforce the existing laws, stop hiring illegals, stop giving them benefits. They will have no choice but to move to the sanctuary cities or to return to their own countries. Gingrich is a pandering careerist who thinks he can fool Hispanics like me. But he can only fool those who, like e pearse, are real good at waving the white flag.

Mike W| 11.27.11 @ 10:02PM

The same straw man rubbish that Newt throws out - "We cant deport 12 million....". No. We enforce the laws and they leave. How simple do you have to make it for you McCain/Bush/Gingrich amnesty loving losers?

John C.| 11.25.11 @ 12:29PM

J. Ramos’s post should be sent to RINO-lovers Rush, Hannity, Levin etc who once again are deceiving the GOP base and Tea Party by trying to pass Trojan Horse Newt as a conservative.

Newt is a one-world, anti-American, liberal globalist with no core principles. His record and past positions are proof of this –follow the money.

Peter McGrath| 11.25.11 @ 12:47PM

Newt is a rare conservative politician, that is conservative (small "c") who's managed to stay relevant for a long time, and with good reason. He's done the time, voraciously reading, studying, developing ideas, and presented a compelling a conservative approach to the future.

Newt is not A Conservative, though. The currrent iteration of mainstream Conservativism wants immediate, drastic action taken to end baseline budgeting, require Congress to adopt a budget each year (or be sequestered until they do), make it a felony to engage in securities insider trading if a member of congress, adopt a balanced budget amendment which must both: (1) cap federal spending at 18% (or less) of total GDP, and (2) require adoption of a balanced budget each fiscal year. Energy, Commerce, Education, as cabinet departments, eliminated with essential oversight (nuclear energy, essential Federal licensing requirements for nuclear power plants, paring down of as many other functions as possible, leaving such oversight, if desired, at a more local level): Buckley's principal of subsidiarity.

In short: us movement Guys want a miracle.

Newt's been there, been around the block, a warrior in the conservative cause for a long time. He knows that neither Rome - nor a culturally polluted society - can be nursed back to health in a day.

So, I'm throwing in with Newt. And ask him to please start throwing some red meat to your base. Start focusing on what works, and deploy the scalpel on the edifice of the 11th Wonder of the World: The Utterly Failed, Not Ready for Prime Time, Barack O'Bambi (no disrespect for the real Bambi, a lovely cartoon creation which is far more compelling than her namesake).

C'mon, NEWT, let's get ready ... to ... rumble.

Frank Natoli| 11.25.11 @ 3:55PM

"Romney took advantage of Newt's little sermonette by reminding the audience that he staunchly opposed amnesty in any of its guises."

Not exactly. Romney said what he said in the debate. But in 2007, as played on the Mark Levin radio show this week, Romney advocated an even more aggressive amnesty plan that Newt's, which unlike Newt's included citizenship.

I can't stand Huntsman's Liberalism. I can't stand Paul's blame-America-first foreign policy. But at least both of them are honest, and I respect them for that.

No way anybody of any party can respect Romney.

POST American| 11.26.11 @ 1:21AM

---------------------FINAL WORD-----------------------

"Notice that, as always, as the campaigns
begin, and the election approaches, ALLL
discussion of the REAL issues ----completely
disappears."

Some of those issues:

"The Federal Reserve has pumped so
many BILLIONS into (--NAZI--) Germany
that they dare NOT name the total."
-REP Charles McFadden
1935
(during the FED created
'Great Depression'/ after the
FED enabling and empowerment
of Soviet Russia/ BEFORE their
sponsorship of the handover of
the American economy to RED
China)

----the ILLEGAL, fractional reserve USURY
driven, foreign owned 'Federal Reserve'

-----the now UNDENIABLE, 4 decades on,
Globalist RED China sellout and TREASON
OP

-----the unfolding of a FULL-spectrum
surveilance and police state directed, almost
entirely, against the American people

------the ever at large, ever sinister, ultra-rich,
TAX FREE, cultural subversion, TREASON
and EUGENICS engineering 'benny violent'
foundations

-----the 6 decades on, full-spectrum infiltration
of our religious establishment by Rockefeller funded
'ECK--YOU--MEN--ICK--ALLLL--ISM'
at the service of destruction of doctrine --culture
and society.

-----the expulsion of the PRIVATE corporate
EUGENICS and USURY Globalist front U.N.
----and 'warm' prosecution' theereof

-----the RETRO-active IMPEACHMENT
of our past 4 CFR front op administrations
and immediate nulification of their rafts of
sovereignty subverting 'AG--REE--ments'

Louis Jenkins| 11.26.11 @ 3:33PM

First it was Bachman, then it was Perry, then it was Cain, then it was Gingrich. Who's next? Seems someone is picking the leader one at a time, and always there's the man in the background whispering to the masses-Romeny's the man. Romeny's the man. Who is doing the selection here people? It's MSM.

POST American| 11.27.11 @ 9:25PM

---'SUB--Mitt' to 'ROME--knee'---?

FACT IS, Romney's FOR 'Banker Bailouts',
open borders, carbon taxes, the full-spectrum
police state AGAINST the American people,
recreational extermination of the unborn, and Glow-ball-ism.

FACT IS, he's NEVER so much as uttered
a word about our finishing off, Globalist
RED China TREASON OP.

--------------------STEER CLEAR!----------------------

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