The American Spectator : $15 Trillion and Counting

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$15 Trillion and Counting

By Ross Kaminsky on 11.18.11 @ 6:10AM

It can't go on forever so when will it stop?

On Wednesday, the federal government's total debt exceeded fifteen trillion dollars. That's $48,000 in debt per citizen and over $133,000 in debt per taxpayer. Adding in all U.S. debt, including personal (mortgages, credit cards, student loans), plus government at all levels, the debt is approaching an incomprehensible $55 trillion, representing almost $661,000 per American family.

If you want to see just how literally big these numbers are, take a look at this screen shot from USDebtClock.org taken a couple of seconds after the fateful $15 trillion national debt was reached.

As Stein's law says, "If something cannot go on forever, it will stop." The question is how.

I fear to learn the answer, not least because in this high-stakes game of musical chairs, the Democrats want to keep the music playing while Republicans alternate between feckless and spineless despite a 2010 election that should have given them some backbone.

As economist Brian Wesbury states, "Cutting spending is the most important thing Congress can do to boost economic growth, create jobs and lift stock markets to new highs."

But in Congress and the "Super Committee," Republicans are walking away from pledges not to raise taxes in a poorly conceived desire to cooperate with Democrats. When will Republicans realize that the public is awake and that good policy is, at long last, good politics? When will they realize that acting like Democrats is what has cost the GOP electoral success for the past decade, if not the past century?

It could be that Republicans are trying to appear willing to accept modest tax increases in return for tax rate cut permanence and entitlement reform, knowing that Democrats will refuse to accept the offer, thus placing Democrats in the role of obstructionists. But Republicans are simply not that smart, and in the meantime they're playing right into Democrat hands.

After all, Republicans now seem to be offering tax increases (in the form of reduced deductions for upper-income earners) in return for extending the Bush tax rate cuts. But those cuts are likely to be extended by Congress in any case. Republicans can then make them permanent by electoral success in 2012 without having to cave in to John Kerry and friends. In the meantime, all the recent headlines from the Super Committee are about the size of tax increases, with nary a mention of spending cuts.

The key to fixing our economic problems is the realization that our federal government's deficits and debt are caused by a spending problem -- and only a spending problem. Brian Wesbury uses a few simple data points to make this clear: "Federal spending increased from 18% of GDP in 1965 to 23% in 1982. During that time, stock prices went nowhere, P-E ratios fell, unemployment rose and the economy suffered. From 1982 to 2000, government spending was cut back to 18.5% of GDP. Stocks soared, unemployment plummeted and the economy boomed. Since 2000, as government spending shot up again, the economy has suffered, unemployment has climbed and stocks have flat-lined again."

On Tuesday, Congressional Budget Office (CBO) director Doug Elmendorf testified before a Senate committee that while the roughly $800 billion spent on the "stimulus" created an initial boost to GDP, the level of GDP will "be a little lower at the end (of the decade)" than it would have been without stimulus. It's the economic equivalent of a hangover -- after a party that wasn't very much fun to begin with. He also conceded Senator Jeff Sessions' (R-AL) point that ongoing interest payments on the stimulus's deficits would create a "continual negative" and a "continuing drag" on GDP "if no other action were taken."

Elmendorf, who has been willing to speak the economic truth more often than other high-ranking DC functionaries, is nevertheless stuck in the CBO's world of static modeling and Keynesian thinking. CBO's policy analyses systematically understate the benefits of tax cuts and the damage of excessive spending, including transfer payments.

Therefore, while Elmendorf's testimony acknowledges the likelihood of a weak economy for a prolonged period, including an "unemployment rate close to 9 percent through the end of 2012," his policy prescriptions have superficial short-term appeal but miss the big picture. Bastiat would say that the CBO's suggestions represent the work of a "bad economist," one who anticipates that which is seen but ignores that which is not seen.

In particular, the CBO favors reducing payroll taxes and "providing aid to the unemployed" over reducing tax rates on corporate income and repatriated earnings from foreign divisions of American companies. It's true that the first two policies might give a short-term boost to economic activity -- though even that is not demonstrated by evidence. However, reducing income or payroll taxes is only effective if the reductions are perceived to be permanent, or at least long lasting. The ad hoc tinkering with rates we've seen so far will not boost employment because companies aren't looking to hire someone for just a year or two; they look at the expected long-term total cost of an employee.

Similarly, aid to the unemployed is not a strategy for economic growth. After all, if you subsidize something, you get more of it. Beyond that obvious maxim, however, take this idea to its logical conclusion: if the best way to create economic growth were unemployment checks, then shouldn't we aim to have as many unemployed people as possible and send them free money, mined from rich veins deep in Big Rock Candy Mountain?

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About the Author

Ross Kaminsky is a self-employed trader and investor and is a senior fellow of the Heartland Institute. He blogs at Rossputin.com and is the host of The Ross Kaminsky Show on Denver's NewsRadio 850 KOA at 11 AM on most Sundays.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (418) | Leave a comment

Nancy in NC| 11.18.11 @ 7:03AM

But it would be nice to have some adults in the room when it does go up in flames to help pick up the pieces.

If (when?) the dollars crashes, the world won't end. I think most of us here see the problem, now we need some solutions. To endlessly bemoan that fact that the sky is falling seems a waste of time.

The solution, IMHO, is the House. If we could find more people with integrity to oppose the incumbents in the House, we might make a difference, and that needs to start at the local level.

Indy| 11.18.11 @ 9:00AM

Most of those we worked so hard to elect in 2010 has been silenced and put in place by the establishment GOP...look at the Balanced Budget Amendment being voted on today, the weak version which clears the pathway to more spending and higher taxes. I have not heard one "conservative" in the House speak out about this, only Mike Lee in the Senate has said support for the BBA in the Senate will drop if the House BBA version 2 is passed.

To me, the problem is the weak GOP leadership, if the House is held and the Senate flips to the GOP, the problem of Boehner and McConnell (Cantor too) are huge obstacles to overcome.

WSJ article below talks about the GOP gift to the Dems I have called and emailed GOP leadership and encourage others to do the same, call your reps this morning if you want your voice heard.

http://online.wsj.com/article/.....oveLEFTTop

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.18.11 @ 9:17AM

It can't go on forever, so when will it stop?

I disagree. It CAN go on forever, and it WON'T STOP, until there's Blood on the ground.

Everyone in Washington KNOWS the situation, and yet, it continues, unabated. How can that be? Don't they see the TRAIN heading for them?

No. They don't. Even if they did, they believe that they've accumulated enough WEALTH, through gaming the system for so many years, that they, and THEIR Families, will survive the Crash, an to HELL with everybody else.

This is not the Country of Washington, Adams, and Jefferson. This is not the Country of Lincoln, Johnson and Jackson. It's not even Truman, Eisenhower and Kennedy. We've become the Country of Watergate, a Peanut Farming Jew Hater, a Serial Misogynist/Rapist/Liar, and a Man, BORN to an Atheist/Communist Mother and a Muslim/Marxist Father. RAISED in the Muslim Schools and Muslim Mosques of Indonesia, LEARNING to Hate this Country, and to Hate all Jews, until the age of 11. A man who's hatred for this Country is part of his DNA. Marxism, Communism, Maoism, Anti-Semitism, "Death to America". All in his DNA. One need only LOOK, at the people he's put in places of power, who DID NOT require Senate Confirmation. He will Finish what he has Started. He will SPEND, until this Country falls.
So much, for the Executive Branch.

Congress, right now, is writing Laws for US, that don't include them. You scratch your head sometimes, as some of these people have to have their hands pryed from their office doors, or DROP DEAD, to get them out of there. 70, 80, 90 years old. Some of them get CANCER, and they still won't leave. I think to myself: Don't they want to spend their Golden Years with their FAMILIES? Don't they have any GRANDCHILDREN that they could be spending quality time with?

Nancy Pelosi and her Husband, are MILLIONAIRES. (It's o.k. They're "good' Millionaires) They own Vineyards and Restaurants, in California. (Do they hire UNION workers? That's a joke. Of Course they don't.) So. They're Millionaires, many times over, and yet, there she is, taking INSIDE INFORMATION from Committee Testimony, from various Congressional Committees. And, when she's not doing that? She'll be working on getting Legislation passed, that will either HELP the companies that she is invested in, or that will HURT those Companies' competitors.
Get It?

Dianne Feinstein, and her husband. Same thing. And she goes way back. When she sat on the Senate Military Appropriations Committee, she "steered" work to the 2 Companies that her Husband was connected with. They made MILLIONS. (Again,. These were "Good" Millions. Different than, say, Koch Bros. Millions) Upon her Husband Retiring from these companies, she QUIT that Committee.

John (I never saw a Rich Widow I din't wanna Marry) Kerry, is a BILLIONAIRE (O.K. His WIFE is a BILLIONAIRE) And yet, again, he's out there working endlessly, and tirelessly. And for what? For US? For the COUNTRY? For a shot at one of those Peace Prize thingies? No. He's trying to get more money for HIM. And the list goes on and on.
Hail Congress!

As far as the Supreme Court is concerned? I really believe that they are so sequestered, so out of touch with THE PEOPLE, and so impressed by their own reflections in anything shiney, that they couldn't care less, about what happens to the rest of us. I picture them in their Offices, staring endlessly in to a full length mirror, posing with one of those Powdered Wigs, that were all the rage back in the day. I imagine that, in the future, the Medical profession will define their condition as a kind of Supreme Alzheimers, that only afflicts those who believe they are thisclose to being GOD.

The Executive runs up Trillion $ Deficits, year after year. The Congress, charged with the task of RAISING the amount of DEBT, His Majesty may accrue, and facing the 1st Credit DOWNGRADE in the Nations History, does what?
It Punts. And, while the Country's Economic Future, and her Civil Order is being challanged, and her Liberties are Threatened, The Supreme Court sees no reason to get busy. After all: Rome wasn't built in a Day.
Indeed.

It didn't Fall in a Day, either.
But it did FALL.

emilio lizardo, PhD| 11.18.11 @ 10:07AM

Word. You've said it all, Mr. Pennell.

Redstateboy| 11.18.11 @ 10:55AM

cannot add to this Tim.. I like the point you made about the Congress insolating themselves against the coming crash by lining THEIR pockets.
All me and my buddies are doing? We're Arming ourselves. We've got 9's, 38's, Shotguns and plenty of Ammo cause it's gonna crash and when the OWS bunch begin unoccupying their Mom's basements? They're going to find a well armed Militia. What else can be said?

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 12:07PM

Pennell has nothing about all the Republican crony Capitalists like Newt Gingrich who has been exposed as a complete fraud in the Washington Post. He redieved 38 million in payoffs to be the behind the scenes mouthpiece for Fannie Mae, the Heathcare conglomerates, the ethanol lobby, and GE. Shame on Rush Limbaugh for pushing this phoney.

Ron and Rand for Peace, Prosperity and liberty.

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 12:30PM

This site is under attack by hasbarets. Hasbara is the worldwide effort of the Israeli Propaganda ministry, to counter the huge amount of worldwide anti Israel blog traffic. The main purpose of these efforts is to stop honest discusssion of Middle East policies and other issues that the Israeli's don't like. That would include foreign aid and it's ending. Bringing the troops home and letting America follow a traditional policy of nonintervention. The vast majortiy of the nonsense attacks on this site are by hasbarets to disrupt discussion. They use a lot of Obscene allusions, especially homosexual. They name steal and name call. anything to disrupt an honest discussion on a forum

There are also people like Dr. Wrong who are a more educated Hasbaret. They try to make more reasoned arguments at times but in the end will use any tactic to stifle discussion. I consider Dr, Wrong head Hasbaret of the coven who inhabits this site with Occam as number 2.

They especially hate Dr. Paul because he would return america to It's traditioanl world role, of Peace and friendship for all and we mind our own business. He would end foreign aid and foreign adventures and spend American tax money on american needs. He would let the world pay for it's own defenses in both blood and treasure.
The winning ticket to restore America is.

Ron and Rand for Peace. Prosperity and Liberty.

Con Chef (NB)| 11.18.11 @ 1:11PM

Yes, we're all sitting in an office in downtown Tel Aviv posting our arguments against your candidate. And while we're doing so, we're emptying your bank account & kidnapping your kids to use their blood for our Purim cookies. And later tonight, as you cower in fear in your trailer, waiting for the Sayeret Matkal hit team to ice you, I will be watching the whole thing via my Mass Zionist World Conspiracy website that will be broadcasting the helment cam feed.

You know, Jack, I've noticed that you've said you're a Catholic. Well, my Mother is a Catholic. I chose to follow my Dad's religion because, even at the age of 11, I doubted the divinity of Christ. I believed, and STILL believe, that I don't need an intermediary between myself & G*d. But if ardent supporters of Israel are classified as "Israel Firsters," then why shouldn't people classify you as a "Vatican Firster?" If you supported the IRA against the Brits, does that make you an "Ireland Firster?" When they Brits kicked the Argentines out of the Falklands, were those who cheered that effort "England Firsters?"

Maybe you can answer this rationally. However, given that you've waxed eloquently about the disappearence of the "Zionist Entity," I won't hold my breath.

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 3:57PM

Newt Gingrich is like the Federal government and Federal Reserve, Big, Bloated and out of control.
How's the weather in Haifa. It is getting cold here.

Con Chef (NB)| 11.18.11 @ 5:15PM

Don't know. Never been to Haifa. But its colder than frozen duck shat on a pond here in Pittsburgh. And thanks for the eloquent response. Your mental acumen is just dazzling.

Clint| 11.18.11 @ 6:29PM

In May, when Gingrich sharply criticized Paul Ryan’s Medicare reform plan, FreedomWorks Chairman Dick Armey reminded National Review that Gingrich had been a serial offender:

Citing Gingrich’s support of Dede Scozzafava in the 2009 congressional election in New York’s 23rd district, his backing of Medicare Part D and TARP, and his commercial with Nancy Pelosi about climate change, Armey observes that “Newt entered the race with serious ground to make up with these 2 million Tea Party activists.”…

Brendan Steinhauser, director of Federal and State Campaigns for FreedomWorks, reports that the Tea Partiers he’s talked to are “irate” at Gingrich… “I never met a single Tea Party activist that supported Newt Gingrich for president,” he adds."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

arch| 11.18.11 @ 11:56PM

Cicero! I am here!

Con Chef (NB)| 11.19.11 @ 12:05AM

Hey, Arch!

RCV| 11.18.11 @ 1:32PM

Ah yes, with Ron and Rand we'd see the dawning of the Age of Acquarius, peace and friendship for all.
Hamas would say, let's not lob those missles into Israeli schools; Iran would say, let's make friends with Israel and give up that nuclear weapons program; the Taliban would join NOW, and Kim Jong Il would fly to Seoul in a dramatic move reminiscent of Anwar Sadat. Sympathy and Trust abounding.

Con Chef (NB)| 11.18.11 @ 1:42PM

I feel "hopey/changey" all over again, don't you?

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 4:02PM

RCV are you one West Bank or in Haifa? Your boy Gingrich that you puffed, so carefully has exploded in a suicide bomb taking Rush Limbaugh and the neocon media who shilled him up, down with him. Old Newt was like the Federal Reserve and the Federal government. big, bloated, and out of control

RCV| 11.18.11 @ 11:56PM

Jack - I'm an Irish-Belgian boy, raised Catholic, now Anglican. I detest Gingrich to the core, along with El Rushbo, the drug-addled misogynist. As everyone on this site knows, I'm a proud liberal Democrat. But like most Americans, liberal and conservative, Democrat and Republican, I admire and support Israel, I loathe anti-Semites and racists, and I recognize that Ron Paul is a dithering fool.

Jack in Wi| 11.19.11 @ 7:43AM

Hasbarets often claim to be something else, like an Anglican who loves Israel and detests anti semiticism. Did you ever meet an Anglican, liberal, democrat who doesn't either loathe or at least dislike the racism and the apartheid of the Israeli state? You rabid Zionists are like zoombies, in that you both love to suck blood and hate daylight and the Crucifix.

RCV is you usual lying hasbaret. End the terror. End the hate. Integrate the Israeli state. The only just and sane solution is to make peace with the Arabs and integrate Israel Palistine just like South Africa. That can never happen until the majority of Jews in Israel figure this out for themselves. Until then the world will be on the precipice of a possible nuclear nightmare. The Hasbarets I have run into, all theaten to use their nuclear weapons to destroy most of the Middle East and Europe if they don't get their way. Zionism is a vast suicide cult. Don't believe me? Google Masada complex and The Samson Option. Shalom and L' Chaim are great Jewish words. Peace and Life are much better then War and Death. Shalom.

A.J.| 11.19.11 @ 6:26PM

You(jack) are a certified fucking paranoid lunatic. What a mental train wreck. I was told about some of these paul followers, you just clued me in on why.

RCV| 11.20.11 @ 7:54PM

I'm not surprised you never met such an Anglican, given the kind of folks you associate with, Jack.

Clint| 11.19.11 @ 10:50AM

RCV Is A Serial ObamaBoy Israel Firster Propaganda Squad Troll.

Clint| 11.18.11 @ 5:28PM

ObamaBoy Israel Firster Propaganda Squad Troll RCV Is All Atwitter & PMS'Y Over Our Tea Party Senator Dr.Rand Paul, Our Tea Party Presidential Candidate Dr.Ron Paul & We Tea Party patriots Who Support Them.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 3:47PM

There is crazy, and then there's "Ron Paul-bot Crazy!"

...guess which one Jack is?

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 4:07PM

RIP Newt Gingrich and the neocons he shilled for his whole career. A lot of money and a lot of face was lost when old Newt exploded in a suicide bomb yesterday. He was like the Federal government Big, Bloated and out of control. How's the weather in Brooklyn at the Schul Dr. Wrong?

Clint| 11.18.11 @ 6:34PM

The RINO-CINO Gingrich Endorsed Dede Scoozafava.

Scozzafava is an abortion rights advocate who favors gay marriage. It would be one thing if Scozzafava balanced that social liberalism with fiscal conservatism. But as a state assemblywoman, she voted for massive tax increases, Democratic budgets and a $180 million state bank bailout. She also supported the trillion-dollar federal stimulus package — which every House Republican voted against.

Scozzafava’s husband is a leading upstate New York union organizer. She supports the federal “card-check” legislation that would massively boost union rolls — and Democratic voting rolls — at the expense of rank-and-file workers’ free choice. And for that matter, at the expense of Republican electoral prospects. Card check is the key to a Democratic majority in perpetuity. Big Labor bosses have said as much.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Clint| 11.18.11 @ 5:30PM

Then There's Zany Sociopathic Anti-Catholic Joisey White Trash Israel Firster Propaganda Squad Lunatic, Dr.Reich.

The tea party Rebellion Is Here & In Iowa.

Clint| 11.18.11 @ 6:38PM

" Gingrich Feels the Heat for Appearing in Global Warming Ad With Pelosi

Every presidential candidate is going to come into the 2012 race with baggage. But Newt Gingrich has what, for primary voters, could be a doozy in his closet -- three years ago, he cut an ad with Nancy Pelosi for Al Gore's climate change group.

The ad, in which Gingrich and Pelosi don awkward smiles while talking about clean-energy solutions, is coming back to haunt him, along with other statements he's made about climate change."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Con Chef (NB)| 11.18.11 @ 9:31PM

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here, Its There, Its Everywhere!!!

Except at Clint's house. There, they have "The Turner Diaries" Rebellion. Complete with white sheets & burning crosses & Talmuhds.

Clint| 11.19.11 @ 2:06AM

You're A Slandering Liar Israel Fitster Propaganda Squad Agenda Scum , Con Job.

Con Chef (NB)| 11.19.11 @ 2:17PM

Cry about it for me, "cupcakce." Maybe you can snuggle with Jerry Sandusky tonight. He'll console you.

Clint| 11.19.11 @ 3:51PM

Uh Oh !

More Queer Tal From American Spectator's Resident Israel Forster Queen, Con Job.

http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/.....ap-man.jpg

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 10:35AM

You're an idiot ... Ronald Reagan agreed and raised the debt ceiling 18 times, but truth and facts don't matter to you do they? Only "winning" the game against the monsters, the Democrats, right. Republicants have shown the country what they cant do and now they do nothing. And you blame this president? The Executive doesn't run up anything - Congress appropriates the money and sets the rules. The president only agrees.
The problem isn't that adults are not in Congress, it's that adults are the only ones that should be able to vote. And adolescent testosterone is on display here for all the world to see - if I don't get my way, I am going home and America can fail, I don't care ... I don't want any more taxes - even though you pay less Federal tax now then you have since the '50's (go look it up, don't be lazy and just call me a liar).

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 10:52AM

Yes, we blame the President.

Because he DESERVES the blame.

He's done NOTHING to fix this economy.

Only a moron - or a Liberal Democrat - thinks that you can tax-and-spend your way to prosperity.

And you're NOT a liar, you're simply stupid.

If we pay less Federal tax now than we did in the 1950's, then thank RONALD REAGAN!

Reagan slashed the top marginal rate from 70% to 28% in 1981, and it's been creeping back up (because of Democrats) ever since. The fact that it's below 1950's rates is utterly irrelevant, it's still too high.

If you want to pay more taxes, then go ahead: Write a personal check to the Treasury Department, and tell all your Lib buddies to do the same.

But you won't. Because you don't want to pay taxes, either...you just want to steal from other people who do.

We had a DEM-controlled congress between '06-'10, and they ran up a HUGE spending bill, including the grand-daddy of them all, Obama's socialist healthcare bill.

You're a complete ignoramus. You don't even know what you don't know.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 11:13AM

The reason we're in debt is because Republicans don't want to pay their way and so they borrow and spend ... at least the Democrats paid for their spending ... R's have mortgaged our future, still don't want to pay for what they have done and you're happy as a clam - now who's the fool, oh foolish one? That's responsible?

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 12:45PM

"Pay their way"...

You have NO idea what that even means, dummy.

I DO pay my way. I pay Federal income tax, state income tax (to 2 states!), and local tax.

The people who aren't paying their way are the slackers and deadbeats who think they're entitled to more and more of what the productive class produces and earns.

It's time for the lower-income folks to start paying THEIR "fair share", and stop living off the largesse of others.

Additionally, you have no idea about who spends, and who doesn't. If you think the Democrats are somehow thrifty, you're as dumb as they come.

"Mortgaged our future"?? Sorry, dimwit...but the current economic crisis was caused DIRECTLY by the collapse of the housing market which was caused DIRECTLY by Jimmy Carter and exacerbated by Bill Clinton, Janet Reno, and Barney Frank.

To wit:

When you force banks to make loans to people who can't afford them (mostly minorities who vote for Dems), then eventually those loans will default...and that's exactly what happened.

Learn facts, or get lost.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 4:06PM

"In 1992, President George H.W. Bush signed the Housing and Community Development Act of 1992. The Act amended the charter of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to reflect Congress' view that the GSEs "... have an affirmative obligation to facilitate the financing of affordable housing for low- and moderate-income families in a manner consistent with their overall public purposes" - So much for what you know ... keep listening to Rush Loudmouth and like.

So you can blame Papa Bush directly, if you wish... get off your d* Republicant talking points. Go learn some American History clown.

idalily| 11.18.11 @ 3:12PM

Republicans don't want to "pay their way"? Okay, what FACTS do you have to support this contention? You being so big on FACTS and all, this should be easy for you.

For the record, I've worked my butt off all MY LIFE paying for the do-gooder social programs, schemes and spending that liberals like you have crammed down my taxpaying throat and yet, poor people are still poor. They are also, thanks to you and everyone like you, dependent upon me to keep paying their "fair share" for them. NO, NO, NO. The problem isn't what I pay in, it's what you liberals insist has to be taken out. It's a spending problem, not a revenue problem. Why can't you liberals just admit it: social engineering is a failure. Urban planning is a crock. And you can't make poor people rich by making rich people poor. Just admit that, and we might be able to find some actual solutions to our ills.

By the way, still asking: why is it morally right to tax the rich at a higher rate that everyone else? Why is it fair to punish the successful? It is you liberals who have mortgaged our future with your spending. I'm working my ass off to pay for it. And every day you sneer and ridicule and hurl your shallow, childish arguments about my intellect, my reading habits and my conservative values is another day my contempt for you and all you stand for become more firmly entrenched. With every tax dollar I see your good intentions waste, I hate you more, liberal. It is YOU and all the other do-gooder entitlement pushers like you who are destroying this country.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 4:19PM

First, you don't pay s* for me. I am in the top 25 of earners and need nothing from you nor anyone else. But not all are as lucky or blessed.
Already answered your question about taxing the rich, but someone much smarter than we all are said : "Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometric progression as they rise" - Thomas Jefferson. Even Jefferson advocated taxing the most wealthy more. Period. Should end your confusion.
It's quite simple, it's public and even YOU can look it up... 1) Ronald Reagan added 2.2 Trillion to the National debt, 2) Papa Bush added 2.8 Trillion to the National Debt 3) Baby Bush added 5.7 Trillion to the national debt .. Now with simple arithmetic, we can see that the R's added 10.7 Trillion to the 14, now 15 Trillion debt. Had Republicants paid their way for what they wanted to spend, we would only have some 5 Trillion in debt. Those pesky facts just keep getting in the way of the Rush-Rovian mythological presentation American History.
The fact you harbor hatred is your own fault, your problem, and not a problem I need to solve. I love you all, you are just lost sheep that have been duped by your masters to believing what is NOT in your own interests, but theirs. One day I hope you will see.

idalily| 11.18.11 @ 6:49PM

Yes, I do pay for you. In a myriad of ways. I pay because of the narrative you and every other liberal has pushed further and further into my wallet. I pay for your failed policies in property taxes that funds crappy education for children I don't have. I pay for it public services for illegals who pay no taxes because you have pushed that narrative down my throat. I pay in the layers of regulation and bureaucracy you and your ilk keep pushing into my business. I am bleeding from the thousand tiny cuts you and your ilk have inflicted upon me in the guise of "helping the less fortunate." I pay, Sunshine. Every fricking day, I pay for the myth of social justice and fairness that you have driven into our lives with your utopian good intentions that DON'T WORK. You and your ilk advocate a government dependency scheme to "take care of people." You are an entitlement pusher. People like you have been systematically making tax payers pay for fifty years. And yes, I HATE everything you stand for because it means eventual totalitarianism everywhere it's been tried. I HATE how people like you are destroying what was a beautifully crafted Republic and replaced it with a welfare state that leaves misery all around us.

Keep throwing out the Rush-Rovian cliches. It's all you've got. Critical thinking is obviously outside your abilities. You keep quoting Jefferson. Don't you have a cogent argument to make that doesn't use someone else's words? Can't you think for yourself? You also keep cherry picking and parsing information. I can do the same. So? In all these "facts" of yours, you still can't answer a simple question: how is it morally right to tax wealthy people at a higher rate than everyone else? You talk about masters? What do you think a welfare state is? The ultimate pork barrel plantation. And it is YOUR fault. You and all who vote like you.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 9:56PM

Your dissing Thomas Jefferson ? OMG, stop, my side hurts ... hahahahaha.
I've already answered your stupid question that answer should be obvious to you by now.

idalily| 11.19.11 @ 4:29PM

No, you have not. If you have and I missed it, a cut and paste of your answer would be appreciat"diss Jefferson"? Answer: I didn't. Not anywhere, in any of my posts. The fact that that is your only response continues to verify that you can't debate worth crap, Sunshine. You deflect, cherry pick, sneer and hurl cliches and never refute with facts or admit that your liberal take care of everyone policies have become the entitlement drug and will NEVER cure or even help cure poverty. They just keep people unable to stand on their own.

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 8:05PM

Facts, I do .. but would it really matter to you? You live in the Fixed News fact free world of belief. You have Billionaires and Millionaires, Thomas Jefferson, and a host of others supporting the raising of taxes, especially on the well off in lieu of taxing the poor, but you refuse to "believe" it... Now, why is that? What makes you soooo sure you are correct that it is immoral or whatever crap you believe? Even Jesus Christ knew that a rich man wouldn't get into heaven. Don't you want them to have the chance to go to heaven? How immoral are you? Answer my questions dearie.

idalily| 11.21.11 @ 5:14PM

If billionaires and millionaires (including YOU, Mr. Self-Admitted Two Percenter), want to give more of your money to the IRS than the law requires, NO ONE IS STOPPING YOU. Do you really not see the difference between giving and forcing others to give? Unlike you, I don't believe in totalitarian force to make people give up their hard earned money to "help" people, when that money is used in ways that make people entitlement addicts and do harm, not good.

And how do you know I even believe in heaven, DEARIE? Once again, you make assumptions out of the liberal talking points cliche grab bag. You just can't stop. Like I said, it must be a form of Tourette's. And as to answering questions, DEARIE, you still haven't answered mine. You say you did, but when I ask for a cut and paste of your answer, you can't provide it, which means you never answered it. So I'll ask yet AGAIN:

What is the moral justification for forcing the wealthy to pay a higher percentage in taxes than everyone else? You aren't answering my question because you CAN'T. There is no moral justification. You know it, I know it, the world knows it. You just want to get your greedy liberal hands in my wallet and take my money against my will. Sorry, but I will fight you every step of the way, entitlement pusher.

Jack in Wi| 11.19.11 @ 7:21AM

Purple guy is your usual union thug, working his government computer on government time to attack people who think that there is way too much waste in the union run goverments. Return to the old system when they were supposed to be civil servants to the taxpayers, not their overlords.

Oldefarte| 11.18.11 @ 10:57AM

No you are the idiot, the fool and the liar, because you are an idiotic, foolish and lying PROGRESSIVE/LIBERAL/DEMOCRAT and you '''''''STUPIDLY''''' vote for same [along with your fellow idiots/fools and liars], because you all want a continual and progressively expanding welfare state from the government and for the income producing taxpayers of this nation to support all of you. You are the Wall Street protesting thugs [and worthless nincompoots of this world] who have never amounted to anything in life and never will. You just want to live your life of blowing drug-smoke up your collectively worthless noses and for somebody else to have to work 24-7 in order to generate income so that the liberals/progressives that you elected and demand under threat of jail that they forfeit too much of same to pay for your ineptitude and worthlessness!!!!!!!!!!!

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 11:22AM

Since I am in the top 2% of earners, never have been on the government dole, have served my country in the Armed Services, you obviously don't know what you are talking about when it comes to me. Think of me like one of the millionaires that descended on Congress yesterday to implore Congress to tax them more. They know, as I do, that spending cuts will never be enough and taxes need to be raised ... the sooner you get over being selfish and happy to throw Grandma out on the street the better off you will be. To paraphrase Herman Cain - If you think you don't make enough income - don't blame the government, blame yourself. When you make enough, taxes are irrelevant to whether you eat or can pay your bills. it's really quite liberating. Too bad you will never know that freedom.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 12:47PM

"Since I am in the top 2% of earners, never have been on the government dole, have served my country in the Armed Services, you obviously don't know what you are talking about when it comes to me."

Yes, I do.

No one could have achieved those thing as be as clueless as you are.

You're a college-student know-nothing.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 4:28PM

Hahaha .. you think I sound like a college student? You are so off base.
I was raised by blue collar parents so I have an understanding of where you all are living paycheck to paycheck.
But I haven't forgotten my roots and I have seen the damage the Republicant policies have done to this country. Some good too. Democratic policies have too done good and bad. The difference is the Democrats did tax you more to pay for more. The Republicants simply charged it and now they crow about the debt? They hand Obama a country nearly in Depression and then sit back and snipe. Hypocrisy on view for all to see. The one saving grace for the Republicants in 2010 was the Jobs, Jobs, Jobs pledge. They have done nothing except around abortion, killing Medicare and Social Security, and designating Pizza as a vegetable, and the American people know it.

Stan Redmond| 11.18.11 @ 1:26PM

What is stopping you 2% ers BEGGING to have your taxes raised from writing checks to the IRS?

Certainly not me.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 4:30PM

Oh, we have ... did you miss the millionaires on Capitol Hill imploring Congress to raise their taxes to help the country out? The Republicants won't even talk to them. Really? And you're okay with that? They're beholden to Grover Norquist, not you and the Constitution, Really?

idalily| 11.19.11 @ 4:31PM

Imploring ain't doing, Sunshine. How much extra of YOUR money have you paid into the system?

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 10:17PM

Purple guy is a government union thug at his government computer wasting the taxpayers time and money. But by all means continue attacking the late Newt Gingrich who blew himself up in a suicide bomb, after being, yet again exposed as a corrupt no good SOB.

RobLACa| 11.18.11 @ 1:39PM

Oldfarte you took the right out....

Just got one thing to add, this babbling idiot is a criminal accomplice if he's not a directly involved with the leadership of the democrat criminal organization. That's what they are, worse than any Mafia, Mobsters or drug cartel protected with nothing to fear giving AMERICANS the finger as they get away with legalized theft.

Obama is a perfect example of vainglorious smug arrogant degenerate. Another is purpledope,

Purpleguy| wrote:

"Yes, be very afraid of me and the other 99% of us."

You are not part of any 99% nor are you antything like "US" AMERICANS. You are a miserable hateful 20%'er who doesn't know his place and we are not afraid of punks like you.

It is you and your party of perpetual fraud who are "irrelevant" existing off the backs of the tax payers. We don't need you. 2010 over 700 democrats kicked to the curb.

I'm done.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 4:35PM

"I'm done" - actually you are. Reason didn't work with you dweebs, so I thought I'd try fear of me to get you woken up. Actually I am part of the 99% since I am only in the top 2%. Boggles the mind don't it? hahahaha
The country has gotten a snoot full of your Republicants and will reject your idiot fringe like they did last week Tuesday all over the country. I can't say I like everything Democrats do, but I like even less what the Republicants try. They really do think no one needs any help anytime (except their own glorious pensions and healthcare, salaries and other bennies)

RobLACa| 11.18.11 @ 1:39PM

Oldfarte you took the right out....

Obama is a perfect example of vainglorious smug arrogant degenerate. Another is purpledope,

Purpleguy| wrote:

"Yes, be very afraid of me and the other 99% of us."

You are not part of any 99% nor are you antything like "US" AMERICANS. You are a miserable hateful 20%'er who doesn't know his place and we are not afraid of punks like you.

It is you and your party of perpetual fraud who are "irrelevant" existing off the backs of the tax payers. We don't need you. 2010 over 700 democrats kicked to the curb.

I'm done.

Redstateboy| 11.18.11 @ 11:00AM

Hey Purpledude... How bout' that Trillion dollar (848 billion + Interest) Porkulus bill? Right here! on TAS - TODAY! The CBO said that the Porklus and it's interest will be a drag on GDP for atleast the next 10 years! Now who passed that one bananahead - why Das Messiah and the Slave Party - you so favor.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 11:14AM

then give back the tax cuts the stimulus gave you ... 1/3 of the stimulus went directly to the American people you dufus.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 12:49PM

Ummm...Hey, Einstein.

Tax-cuts are NOT "given" to people. If you understood basic economics and civics, you'd understand that when taxes are cut, people simply KEEP their own money, they don't get a check from the government.

The money is OURS, NOT the gov'ts!!!

Government is a greedy pig that produces NOTHING.

Obama's phony "stimulus", which was nothing more than a slush-fund for labor unions, was NOT a tax-cut.

And I never got a penny of it.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 5:17PM

Well, if you work, you did ... but now you've spilled the beans . you're a good for nothing stay at home, lazy son of a b* . No need discussing with you on the public dole.

idalily| 11.18.11 @ 3:16PM

Give back the tax cuts? You mean the money I EARNED, the money that was MINE before the government forced it from me? Is that the money you are talking about? And what did it stimulate, BTW? Answer: nothing but more misery.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 4:36PM

the money a government has is always someone else's to start with. And your profound point is?

idalily| 11.18.11 @ 6:53PM

My point is that you and your ilk treat it like it's the government's money. I'm merely reminding you that no, it's my money; the government is merely the trustee who is supposed to manage it wisely and isn't doing so. They are wasting it, so I dared to demand some of it back. You and people like you resent that I dared to get some of my money back.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 10:35PM

No, I know the government has no money. It is your money, but you pay for the privilege of living in this country. Whether you think the money is managed wisely is an opinion, not fact. You can demand all you want, but it's not for you to say. Whether you live here, Canada, Australia, Brazil or Eqypt, you will pay taxes. Just be glad you pay taxes is the most advanced, #1 country in the world and pay up and shut up.

Con Chef (NB)| 11.19.11 @ 12:14AM

We pay enough for societal leeches like you & public sector union douchebags who smoke pot while on the clock & never get fired. If you want it so bad, come get it from us.

Or do you & the rest of the Purple People Beaters have another wheelchair bound conservative black man to beat up & call a ni**ger for handing out Tea Party literature & Gadsden flags?

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 8:11PM

Since I am none of those people you obviously love to pick on, your arrow misses the mark. But a person with a foul mouth, I'm guessing you're a blue collar worker living paycheck to paycheck at some $$/hr. And, yet you vote for the white collar crowd that are more than happy to take your vote and your money, but give you nothing except accolades and psychobabble. It truly is amazing how little you receive back for your vote, and yet you freely give it away for nothing.

chuck| 11.19.11 @ 3:42PM

"pay up and shut up."

Riiiiiiiight!

What an imbecile.

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 8:11PM

You do pay, every year, and yet you just don't shut up. And, I"M an imbecile? LMAO

chuck| 11.20.11 @ 9:19AM

Ok, Purpleguy, you put up or shut up.

You claim to be in the top 2%, PROVE IT!

Post your tax return, redact your name and sensitive info, but post the gross income, net taxable income, and taxes paid.

I think you're of of shit, just like the crap that spews out of your keyboard.

I bet you just caught kicked out of some tent you had pitched in an urban park, and the closest you ever got to the top 2% is screaming at the walls of their office buildings.

carnot| 11.18.11 @ 11:02AM

as always.....the dissembling fool. the President's party controlled Congress. To boot....this President has stated he will find ways to bypass Congressional constraints on particular categories of spending.

we know who the threat is...and it is you.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 11:15AM

Yes, be very afraid of me and the other 99% of us. You are irrelevant and will be subsumed. Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 12:51PM

Afraid of you morons?

Sorry...but you fools couldn't organize a trip to the toilet.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 5:05PM

Seems like they are doing just fine all over this country and indeed the world, without needing Fixed News to advertise for them like the TeaBaggers did....

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 7:32AM

The only candidate who has put forth a credible program of spending and tax reductuon to get this country moving again is Dr. Ron Paul. He has proposed a detailed plan to slash 1 trillion dollars in the first year and to have the whole Federal budget balanced in 3 years. Dr. Paul has been right on what the problems and solutions for decades. Get a copy of his plan online and read it.

The plan would eliminate 5 Departments and end our overseas wars and foreign aid. It would save Social Security, Medicare and needed relief for Americans in this depression. It would allow the young to opt out of Social Security and it's taxes, to pay for their educations and retirement. It would cut subsides to the kleptocrats and criminals both domestic and foreign.

One of the worst of these kleptocrats killed himself figuratively yesterday. Newt Gingrich was exposed as the recipient of many millions of crony capitalist dollars from Fannie Mae, the ethanol inddustry, like healthcare cartels and other bloated rent seekers from the government such as GE. The Washigon Post in a front page story has said that Newt and his front groups got over 37 million dollars of this loot since he was kicked out of the Speakership. Mr Newt has been exposed yet again.To the mountain of his old baggage has been added a mountain of new baggage. All the neocons and their flacks like Rush Limbaugh and the other radio shills as well as the neoconservative intellectual press that tried to push this old shipwreck as the Republican nominee have been exposed for what they are, stupid losers.

jothepro| 11.18.11 @ 8:38AM

Hey Jack ass. Ron Paul would let the world die in the last great war. You, my man are a freak.

Resist We Much!| 11.18.11 @ 12:13PM

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 11:15AM

Yes, be very afraid of me and the other 99% of us. You are irrelevant and will be subsumed. Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.
______________________

You don't represent the 99%...not even close.

They Pretend They're "Sane And Rational." We Pretend They're Relevant.

http://predicthistunpredictpas.....al_08.html

A Circus Parade of Freaks, Anti-Semites, Bare-Breasted Ladies, Radicals, Pinkos, and Hardly An "Average, Hard-Working, Middle-Class American" In Sight

http://predicthistunpredictpas.....mites.html

Resist We Much!| 11.18.11 @ 12:14PM

Occupy Wall Street & Anti-Semitism

http://predicthistunpredictpas.....mites.html

The Guy Fawkes' Mask Slips

http://predicthistunpredictpas.....slips.html

Bydand76| 11.18.11 @ 9:44AM

Huh???

What polling data are you looking at?

The latest PPP polling taken between 11/10/11 -11/13-10 has Obama beating Dr. Paul by an average of 6 points.

http://www.realclearpolitics.c.....dates.html

Dr. Paul is sitting @ 14% avg. in Iowa and around 13.3% avg. in New Hampshire.

You cant just take a singular poll as evidence Clint. Look at the averages.

While he polls in Bloomberg somewhat well, he is not doing that great in the other polls.

I understand your support for your candidate but don't cherry pick the data please.

It is somewhat disingenous on your part.

Bydand76| 11.18.11 @ 10:08AM

That is opinion Clint.

Not hard data.

I can find a different opinion piece and say the same thing about any of the other GOP candidates.

Look at ALL of the data to get an accurate picture.

Ron Paul is polling at or around 14% on an average in Iowa.

Not to mention that what Mr. Clements says is contradictory in of itself. If Dr. Paul has so few flaws then why isn't he leading in all of the polling data?

Todd Powers| 11.21.11 @ 10:31AM

WOW!!!!

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 11.18.11 @ 11:25AM

Good one.

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 12:01PM

Newt has destroyed himself. the only guys who have any traction against Obama are Romney and Ron Paul. Romney and his warmonger policies has no chance against Obama. Obama will be running as the guy who got Bin Laden and is bringing the troops home. Ron Paul polls more then 10 points above Romney among independents and the young. The winning ticket and slogan is.

Ron and Rand for Peace, Prosperity and Liberty.

CrackerHound| 11.20.11 @ 11:48AM

"If (when?) the dollars crashes, the world won't end."

That is a true statment....however the ramification of what is coming is the closest thing to the end of the world as anyone wants to get.

Likely: similar to the great depression

Possible: Worse than the great depression with unprecedented social unrest and a Soviet style collapse

Alan Brooks| 11.19.11 @ 5:20PM

"Newt Gingrich is like the Federal government and Federal Reserve, Big, Bloated and out of control.
How's the weather in Haifa. It is getting cold here."

Actually, I like the way Jack and Clint write- they are funny; Americana-style. and perhaps Jack isn't malicious, he merely honestly thinks Israel is bad.

However I want to write the following so there is no doubt: what Clint and Jack write about many topics is legitimate opinion-- however that Ron Paul will never be elected president is a FACT. If (that is, when) Paul drops out of the race, he will be too old to run again.. and he is too old to run now.

Give it up; get used to Ron Paul being another Perot.

axbucxdu| 11.21.11 @ 8:32PM

"...If (that is, when) Paul drops out of the race, he will be too old to run again.. and he is too old to run now."

As usual when pointing out the ills, you're right on the money. While I agree with his philosophy, Ron Paul has another shortcoming besides his age. Sad to say, but reinstituting constitutional government will require a strategist, somebody that has a vigorous "will to govern" according to our founding documents. It's going to take someone with vitality and creativity to arrest the state. I just don't see that in Paul. I once had high hopes for a voice like Schiff's, but now he's retreated into the background too.

Alan Brooks| 11.18.11 @ 4:37PM

To Ron Paul supporters:
Paul's chances of being president are less than Palin's- and Palin isn't even running.
Give it up.
Advocating Paul for POTUS is comparable to going to a racetrack to bet on a horse with a broken leg-- a waste of time.

Alan Brooks| 11.18.11 @ 5:41PM

Ron Paul has a snowball's chance in Hell of being elected president.

Clint| 11.19.11 @ 2:09AM

ObamaBoy Israel Firster Brooks Has Been Eating The Yellow Snow Again.

Alan Brooks| 11.19.11 @ 5:23PM

Ron Paul will be elected president when Jimmy Hoffa's body is discovered.

Alan Brooks| 11.19.11 @ 5:29PM

Clint,
there are two reasons Paul will only get to the White House as a visitor:
a) he is a wingnut.
b) he is too old.
Either a or b alone is enough to disqualify him.

Throw in the towel, guys.

aware| 11.18.11 @ 1:39PM

Hey Nancy, you know what a real waste time is? Thinking you will get "people of integrity" in government. And thinking government will fix what they have caused. You are seriously underestimating the scale and magnitude of what will come and it may cost you more than you can guess. If you are not preparing as an individual every way you can, and instead keep putting faith in the next political savior you will find out the hard way.

I notice my original post has been deleted. Since I don't call people names, use profanity, or am grossly impolite, I have to wonder why. So much for free speech on "conservative" sites. My message is simple: prepare for the hardest days of your lives and stop depending on criminal politicians of all stripes to "save you".

vicky bennett| 11.18.11 @ 1:38PM

Nancy in NC. It may not be the end of the world, but it will seem like it. Many of us will lose everything we own, even if its only a little.
there is no need to put our kids and grandkids thru this, this was never necessary. Some Americans voted for a socialist, so this is what we get. WE need a budget, we need those shovel ready jobs that the Pipeline will afford... We need obama out.... no need for America to be in this mess.

Alan Brooks| 11.18.11 @ 7:50AM

The Chinese, Islamics, and others, will own America completely.
The Washington Monument will be replaced by the Deng Xiaopeng Monument.

Alan Brooks| 11.18.11 @ 7:57AM

And someone tell Jerk in Wisconscum that Ron Paul has as much chance of being elected president as Jeb Bush.
Paul is too old anyway, soon he will be wearing a diaper in a nursing home.

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 8:09AM

Alan Brooks: Get back to reading your favorite literature, Mein Kamph in the original German.

Ron and Rand for Peace, Prosperity and Liberty.
Praise Jesus. God bless the Pope. Shalom.

Nancy in NC| 11.18.11 @ 2:58PM

The Dims controlled the Congress from 2007 until 2010, when the GOP got control of the House. It's a miracle they didn't pull more stupid crap...like crap and trap...just passed it over to the EPA for their administrative statism.

Washington is full of corruption...from the White House to the Out House. Pelosi and family get wealthier at the hands of the taxpayers, and they keep getting voted into office.

I can't understand why the OWC can't figure out how to do a world of good by occupying Washington. Blow that place up and we would see a drastic improvement.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 2:35PM

But you are oh so right, when you repeat my words. Your's of course, belong in the ash heap of moronic verbiage. If you knew anything you would realize that the R's controlled Congress and President for 6 years, until 2007, and set the tone for the resulting fall in 2008. Yes, the D's came in 2007, but Bush had the veto pen and vetoed many D bills, while he didn't veto not 1 R's bills while they were in control. So blame your own for the mess in 2008, Sunshine. The American People still do ... and they are right.
And, now they stand in the way of continuing to climb out of the hole. Had they not stood in the way earlier, the stimulus could have been larger, as China's package was, and pulled us further out of the hole. Once the tipping point is reached, instead of ratcheting down employment, it would have ratcheted up... We didn't get there because the R's wouldn't let us spend more on pumping up the economy to recovery level tipping point.
And, don't throw you're crap at me about the "job creators" ... they are sitting on piles of money and record profits and aren't' hiring anybody. They won't until they have customers with money to spend. We don't have a capital problem, we have a demand for goods and services problem. How you gonna fix that if companies flush with cash will not hire? Hmmm?

Redstateboy| 11.18.11 @ 4:03PM

Yo Perp.. I bet you never read the McCain/Coburn Report: "Summer time Blues, 100 Stimulus projects that give Americans the blues." Nor do you have the courage to.. it'd shatter your silly moronic world of Liber-ul make believe where Gov't. Stimulus projects really do work.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 5:22PM

Well, you're reliance on Corporations and Businesses that are flush with cash are not creating jobs - so who's left? What's your answer? Right now, immediately we need jobs.

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 8:52PM

Yeah, the stimulus didn't work ... blah, blah, blah... 2.4 million new jobs came from the job fairy, riiiiiiight ...

DRed| 11.18.11 @ 12:48PM

No, why would you blame Nancy Pelosi for the housing market collapse? Correlation doesn't equal causation, Timmy. I think it's fair to say that the largest financial disaster since the great depression wasn't created in 6 months. You know, it's truly remarkable how much dumb shit you say, Timmy. All while ranting about how stupid everyone else is.

Aleck| 11.18.11 @ 8:06AM

Still, if "politically, it's time for Republicans to recognize that voters want authenticity," then Ron Paul is the only true option.

Alan Brooks| 11.18.11 @ 8:42AM

"Ron and Rand for Peace, Prosperity and Liberty."

Are you suggesting the Paul father and son are going to be on the same ticket? no, probably you mean Ron runs (and loses), and Rand is his closest assistant. Correct?

Clint| 11.19.11 @ 2:14AM

No, ObamaBoy Israel Firster Brooks, He Means That Obama Runs & Loses & Biden Is His Closest Assistant, Capisce ?

Alan Brooks| 11.19.11 @ 5:32PM

However that does not mean Ron Paul will EVER be president except in his geratric dreams!

Alan Brooks| 11.19.11 @ 5:35PM

Geriatric. Ron Paul can sit (or lie down in) in a nursing home 20 years from now- if he should live that long- and fantasize he is a former president.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 9:40AM

Maybe Barney Frank should run?

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 12:52PM

Muslims don't like gays...

Alan Brooks| 11.18.11 @ 4:30PM

No, Muslims fancy young boys- and so do American coaches. So should we all, it is the In Thing.

Clint| 11.18.11 @ 4:53PM

" For the second time in the same week, an independent poll shows Ron Paul in a statistical tie with Herman Cain for the lead heading into the Iowa Caucuses.
by Walt Thiessen
(libertarian)
Friday, November 18, 2011

Lightning has struck twice in one week. First, it was a Bloomberg News Poll that showed Paul in a statistical dead heat with Herman Cain, Mitt Romney, and Newt Gingrich. Today, another poll published by Iowa State University and The Gazette of Eastern Iowa shows Cain and Paul within the margin of error from each other with Romney running third. The polling surprises have led Washington Post columnist Chris Cillizza to write, "Paul is an emerging Iowa force in a race that remains as wide open as at any time in recent memory. That means that Paul’s rivals ignore him at their own peril."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Right Here & In Iowa.

axbucxdu| 11.21.11 @ 8:37PM

You make think it's only sarcasm Alan, but don't be shocked when your "crazy" ideas aren't crazy enough to be true.

axbucxdu| 11.21.11 @ 8:39PM

Posted above to Alan Brooks| 11.18.11 @ 7:50AM

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 11:51AM

Newt Gingrich has been destroyed by his own actions. Ron Paul is the only real consevative who has a program to slash spending and save the American people from bankruptcy.
Ron and Rand for Peace, Prosperity and Liberty.

Clint| 11.18.11 @ 7:28PM

Gingrich Is A TARSTER.

We Are Being Set Up By RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites.

These Are The Same RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here & In Iowa.

John| 11.18.11 @ 6:57AM

Spending and deficit will remain until we overhaul the Federal bureaucracy, abolishing several departments and agencies (education, commerce, energy, EPA, FDA), and empower the states to run those services instead. We need more Ron Paul and Rick Perry, who have the courage to stand up against the liberal machine, vowing to reform the federal workforce. Those public sector unions (SEIU) and overpaid, unskilled, semi-educated bureaucrats need to go. Otherwise, we never be able to balance the budget. Those fat cats make money and blow over the Federal and states' budgets. Get rid off the labor unions.

Nancy in NC| 11.18.11 @ 7:06AM

Good starts. We need to put lots of people out of work in D.C. and reduce the population there and northern Virginia. They need a taste of the real world.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 10:40AM

Everyone needs a raise to union pay levels... why should the CEOs be the only ones raking in the dough when a company does well. He couldn't do squat without the workers. Raises for everyone in 2012!!!!

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 10:55AM

Why don't we simply have "Right-to-Work" so people don't have to belong to unions if they don't want to??

I mean, you are for freedom, and individual choice, right?

Or do you prefer the collectivist line of bullcrap about how we're all in this together...so slackers can steal from the productive class??

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 11:34AM

Because the pay scale for Right to Work States is much lower than Union States - an insidious management plot to keep your pay down and you obviously fell for it. On top of that, since there is no union, there are fewer benefits and you can be fired at will of the management.
Unions have been attacked for years, and some have their abuses, but none of us would have paid vacations or sick days had unions not fought for them earlier last century. Employers don't give benefits away like candy. They were forced to give. Little by little they are whittling away at the employee's benefits ... pensions being the first example. As unions have declined in number, so has the middle class - you can research that yourself, it is a fact.
I'm not pro-union per se, but I am pro-American middle class and whatever hurts that, I am against. As the middle class falls, so goes our freedoms ... in case you haven't noticed, that is why more and more have depended on the government.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 12:56PM

A plot? Maybe it's called "the free market".

Maybe management is sick of paying minimally skilled labor wages that aren't in line with their skills?

The idea that I, who have never worked in a union, somehow owe them for my vacation and benefits is simply stupid. Frankly, I'd prefer they DIDN'T provide me benefits or take money out of my pay-check to do so. I can make my own decisions about healthcare, investing, etc.

Unions are impeding the progress of this nations economy. They need to be politically destroyed. One of the GREATEST moments in US history was when Reagan fired the air-traffic controllers in 1981.

Yeah...as the middle-class falls, so go our freedoms. That's why when Republicans are in charge, the middle-class does well.

DRed| 11.18.11 @ 1:08PM

"That's why when Republicans are in charge, the middle-class does well."

Can you back that up? Show me how the middle class prospered under the W administration.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 2:40PM

Exactly, the middle class has been stagnant in wage increases since the 1980's ... and actually been in decline as defined by the Labor Department which tracks with the chart of the decline in Union membership. it's all public knowledge that anyone can look up.
Thing that gets me is we are all workers, and these people want to throw away the only bargaining power they have against management? How dumb are the lambs going to slaughter? And the 1% are laughing at their stupidity ... all the way to the bank.

idalily| 11.18.11 @ 3:21PM

4% unemployment vs. chronic 9.5%. At least under Bush most people had jobs.

Bargaining power against management? You mean against the people that hired them and pay them? Who own businesses that need to clear a profit to survive? Who have to make decisions and take risks and work hard or lose everything? That management?

Why do you hate a free society? What are you afraid of?

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 5:32PM

An artificial bubble that burst all over us ... nothing more. That's not what we need now... that was not sustainable.
I don't hate freedom, but you never had it, you just think you did.
Under Clinton everyone had jobs too, and taxes were higher, deficits were lower and we didn't create conditions for a near Depression. So your point is? Clinton handed Bush a roaring economy, and Bush handed Obama a deep, deep recession, is that it? Now you want to blame Obama for Bush's Folly?
And, I have run my own business, twice, so I know d* well how hard it is to make payroll and other expenses.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 3:51PM

Yup.

It's called 1952-1965. (Eisenhower)

It's called 1981-2008 (Reagan + Bush '41 + Bush '43...Clinton did NOTHING to earn good marks on the economy).

DRed| 11.18.11 @ 4:01PM

I'm not sure why you think listing Republican administrations supports your argument. How about showing me, specifically, how the middle class prospered during those administrations, and then comparing that to the (presumably) tough times they faced during Democratic administrations.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 4:28PM

1950's: Era of prosperity (widely known)

1981-2008: Largest period of peace-time economic expansion in US history.

These are FACTS.

They indicate MIDDLE CLASS prosperity.

If you doubt them, then disprove them.

Since you weren't paying attention between 1981-2008, I have no intention of reliving them for you.

Oh, FYI...

1932-1940: Bad economy (FDR, Dwemocrat)

1963-1968: Bad economy (LBJ, Democrat)

1976-1980: HORRIBLE economy (Carter, Democrat)

2009-Present: HORRIBLE economy (Obama, Democrat)

See the pattern?

DRed| 11.18.11 @ 4:45PM

The Clinton presidency was the best period in American history for the middle class. Everybody knows that.

See-that's an empty claim. Just like yours. You said that when the Republicans were in charge, the middle class did well. As far as I can tell, you've got nothing to back that up.

Let's just leave the entire economy aside-we're talking about the middle class. This should be easy for you if it's so obvious. Where's the data? Take all weekend if you'd like.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 5:35PM

Are you serious? Under Clinton 22 million jobs were created... we had a booming economy and that was after the highest tax increase in history. Bush lost more jobs than when he came into office after the largest tax cuts in history (for the top 10% i might add) ... and you're proud of THAT?
Reagan raised taxes 6 times to try to balance the budget- something the Republicants of today should listen to - Reagan turning over in his grave.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 2:52PM

There is no "free market" .. that is a theoretical ping pong ball that holds no reality. Maybe Somalia is "free market" ... no rules, no laws, no nothing. Be my guest and enjoy their free market.
Whether it's Corporate power in Lobbying, Government Regulations, Former Congress members on the payroll of Lobbyist Firms, Union rules, Trade Deals, whatever - it all affects the market and is not nor ever has been "free".
You can chart it yourself - when Republicans are in charge, the middle class suffers, as they have for most of the last 30 years.
As far as YOUR benefits ... since you know nothing of history, 7 day weeks were common, 12 hour days, no vacation, no sick days, no pension, no healthcare bennies, nothing prior to 1900. Even child labor was common. 3
You can actually read about it. You too can learn something about American history. Newt can probably tell you all about it. For over 30 years workers fought for their right to collective bargaining and unionizing. Unfortunately, your R's have been demonizing unions for 30 years, and just like with the Nazi propaganda of the past, now you believe it like it's fact. Take your head out of Rush Limbaughs' a* and wake up.
I've never been in a union myself, always been in management, but I do appreciate what unions did for the workers in this country.

idalily| 11.18.11 @ 3:49PM

If you cannot tell the difference between a free market and anarchy, you are an idiot. And I see you just can't help hurling yet another snarky sneer at my education level (which you don't even know). I happen to be quite knowledgable about history, thank you. And unions, with their thuggery, brutish tactics, greedy union bosses and raping of American industry over the past sixty plus years DESERVE every bit of demonizing they are getting. For the record, I have no problem with unions IF: they are not not mandatory (this is a free society) and IF they are not public sector. The tax payers should not be held hostage by a union. Period. It is morally wrong. It is despicable.

idalily| 11.18.11 @ 3:54PM

Oh, and again, what is WITH you assuming yet again what I listen to? Another cliche assumption right out of the liberal talking points grab bag. Are you even capable of original thinking? Or is trotting out cliches ALL you can do?

And you have never been in a union. I have. They are corrupt, greedy and despicable. I happily burned my union card when I moved to a right to work state, and I've never regretted it. Open your eyes. Unions served a good and necessary purpose, but like all noble enterprises, including the French Revolution, it quickly became corrupted, covering up the corruption with the do-gooder mantra.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 5:42PM

You're alternative is to be at the mercy of your company bosses? You have no rights, no one bargaining for your salary increases or benefits, and you can be fired on the spot. Without a union you are only promised 3 things by the United States Civil Code - 1) a lunch, 2) a break after 6 hours, 3) 1 day of rest. That is it ... all the rest are at the whim of the employer. You can look it up for yourself. And, when push comes to shove, you will lose, the company will not as you say. I am all original babe, but well read and brilliant as you can see.

idalily| 11.18.11 @ 6:59PM

Yes, the whim of the employer. How dare that evil business owner make decisions about his business that serve him and make him a profit (sarc off). I have no alternative? Bull. In a free society, I have plenty of alternatives. I can find another job. Start my own business. It's called self-reliance and problem solving and putting on the big girl pants. Again, I have nothing against unions. If they are voluntary. If they are not public sector and paid for by tax payers. I'm also very grateful I don't belong to a union. They are, sadly, corrupt. And sorry, but until you can answer a simple question, your "brilliance" is highly suspect, IMO.

W| 11.18.11 @ 10:55PM

Purpleguy/Idally
I have direct experince with labor unions. Unions did serve a great service in improving the working conditions for workers and in advocating for laws on behalf of workers. The standards negotiated by unions, such as overtime pay, pensions, vacations, leaves, all became the basis for laws passed by government which now benefit all workers.
Now unions represent only about 8% of the private workforce and a higher percentage of the public employees.
In a sense unions are the victim of their own sucess provided by the dedicated union leaders of years ag0, , and the lousy leadership of recent union leaders.Today, without a union you have these federal and state laws as examples:
1. OSHA for health and safety
2. Medical Leave and Family leave
3. civil rights laws banning sex, age, race, handicap discrimination.
4. whistleblower statutes prohibing retaliatory discharges,
5.Minimum wage, overtime pay for over 40 hours per week
6.Workers compensation and unemployement compensation benefits.

The joke is you can fire anyone today as long as he is a white heterosexual male under age 40.

All these were passed by the lobbying of unions and the result is private employee unions are weaker because they are not needed because the government has taken over regulating terms of employment instead of unions and employers negotiating terms of employement. Now the government imposes the terms.
About the only value of a private employee union is to protect a worker from being fired without just cause for some reason not covered by federal or state laws.

The problem in the economy is not that unions are hurting the economy. It is that the government is hurting the economy with the overregulation, such as banning of drilling for oil, and taxes. For example, Obama just killed the pipeline and restricted drilling in the Gulf and Alaska. The govenment has much more power than labor unions.

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 9:05PM

Nice coverage of the union issue. too bad these people won't believe you. However, since the government is "US" we CAN change the laws, regulations and such. The fact that these things are not in place in China, etc. allows lead in toys to come here, melamine in pet food that killed thousands of our pets, and so many food issues to many to list. There may be too much regulation in some cases, not enough in others... but both extremes are wrong and stupid. You need some laws, some regulation, not none.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 5:38PM

Unions are 7% of the workforce... and you think they have all this power? Really? They scare you to death? 7%? Did you know you are complaining about such a small slice of the workforce? That's what's left of the American Dream... but enjoy the 92% or so of the non-union workworld - while you keep losing and losing your earning power, and the middle class keeps shrinking. No one cares about you ... you vote for those that keep feeding the ones that are bilking you... If you can't see that ... live in the mess you voted for.

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 9:00PM

Public sector unions are not the same as private unions and don't enjoy the same powers. taxpayers aren't held hostage to unions - but that's how you get people to hate them. Don't you see the pattern here - pick something voters know little about and demonize them incessantly and before long, the low information voters believe it ... that is a propaganda trick right of Mein Kampf - I would show you the quote from Adolf Hitler, but go look it up yourself, I did. Bumper Sticker mentality, low information voter, repeat, repeat, repeat ... all in Hitler's own words. It's amazing how the playbook of Rover and Loudmouth jump right off the pages of Mein Kampf. It's truly creepy that they use the same techniques as the worst dictator in history - and yet y'all happily follow, believe and support them like good little bundists.

W| 11.20.11 @ 1:08PM

Purpleguy
My experience with public employee unions is that they are not as powerful as the media says. One major problem with public employee unions is that the "employer" is some mayor, governor, county commissioner, or other elected official who is not constrained by the free market of producing a product or service at a price acceptable to the public. The employer just raises taxes , it has a captive market. It does not have to improve the product or service because by definition there is no competition.

Also public employee unions are very political in that they actively campaign and contribute lots of money to the Democrat candidate. So when the Dem wins he now has to bargain with the union that helped elect him. A clear case of conflict of interest but it happens every day. That is why you see the generous benefits.
In Pittsburgh, about ten years ago, the Dem Mayor Tom Murphy was investigated because he gave such a generous contract to the Firefighters union. He gave more that they asked so they would support him in the primary. Pgh has had Dem mayors for 100 years so the real election is in the Dem primary, you win the primary you won.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 3:54PM

No, that's anarchy, not "free markets".

Not only are you ignorant of economics, you're pretty dumb when it comes to history as well.

This nation's economy is based SOLELY on the strength of the private sector. Despite all the constant interference in our free markets from greedy government pigs and bureaucrats since 1932, it still functions.

But it would function even better if politicians would stay the hell out of it.

Here's a clue, sonny...People don't come this country because they like government bureaucracy.

If Gov't provided prosperity, the Soviet Union would have been the richest country in history.

Please obtain some basic knowledge before wasting time on this board.

The Knife| 11.18.11 @ 7:06PM

The Somali warlords shakedown businesses just like the Democratic Party. Fascists like Purpleguy believe somehow that if their government stooges get the money, something good will happen. They lost the trust of the American people in the first two years of the Obama administration with Solyndra and wind farm scams. Thanks but no thanks Purpleguy. We are not buying anymore.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 10:43PM

You are the fascist that wants everyone to bend to the government and genuflect as it passes by.
You never bought Obama anyway, you lost remember? The GOP lost big time nationwide last Tuesday which is just a prelude to 2012. Your paltry 15% of ideologues have been exposed and the American people have rejected the Republicants since they discovered Jobs are not in the playbook. Enjoy your year, for you are doomed to fail.... Which of your clowns do you think can beat Obama? Gov. Oops? The Pizza Man? The serial adulterer? The Wicked Witch of Minnesota? Maybe Ron "he hates everything" Paul? Oh, maybe it's the Mormon Cult Leader? Grandpa McCain would have a better chance... have a nice day.

Con Chef (NB)| 11.19.11 @ 12:09AM

"The GOP lost big time nationwide last Tuesday which is just a prelude to 2012."

That's why Ohio voters, besides voting for what YOU wanted, also voted down the individual mandate for MaoBamaCare. Keep telling yourself that. It'll only be that much more entertaining to watch you piss & moan when MaoMaoBama is no longer "Occupying" the White House.

Oldefarte| 11.18.11 @ 11:08AM

Labor unions are the worst thing that ever happen to this nation, and their excessive wage scales are the very reason why corportation exported their manufacturing operation to foreign countries [which contain competitently educated workers that will gladly work for their countries' market wages paid for their labors]. The reason why labor unions were able to accompolish their stronghold over manufacturers is because they elected [along with stupidly voting morons like yourself]Democrats to office and thereafter stuffed their ill-gotten union wages' dues assessments in the pockets of same Democrats quid-pro-quo style. This country alternatively needs to outlaw labor unions and therefore bring back/import manufacturing operations to this nation in order to once again provide good paying jobs to the 20% unemployed presently due to the socialistic policies of Democrats in control of this country. You are a fool, and a damned stupid one at that!!!!

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 11:48AM

Wrong! Good management in corporations doesn't chase the lowest paid workers. There are plenty of companies that pay American workers right here in America. You obviously have drunk the Kool Aid that unions are the enemy and bad.
What you should want is to raise the wages in China, India, Mexico to come up to our wage level, not down to their level. Do you not get that ? If all workers were on a level playing field, where do you think the jobs would be then? Hmmm?

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 1:00PM

Why would anyone "chase the lowest paid workers"???

Those are unskilled workers. Their skills are a dime-a-dozen.

That's why they're low-paid.

Ummm...NO. I DON'T want to raise wages in China, India, etc, simply for the sake of raising them. The free market - which IS the economy - is the best arbiter of what someone should be paid based on the skills they bring to the job. Additionally, you can't compare wages across countries because living standards are different.

Do YOU not get that?

If all workers were on an artificial, "level" playing field, it would be DISASTROUS for the global economy.

Duh.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 3:02PM

So when a highly skilled computer technician in India makes $3.30/hr and they are competing with a US worker making 10 times that much, who do you think the company management will chase?
And, you are wrong about wage comparisons.... since Globalization has occured, a worker in India or China can do the same work there, especially information workers can, for 1/5 or 1/10 what a US worker would make. In addition, the movement of unskilled labor (manufacturing) offshore occurred even earlier, but now the skilled labor jobs are going to. Free market? Hardly - it's a race to the bottom of the wage scale . Unless we do something all jobs that can be will be offshored. So let's see how well you sing the praises of the free market when you're booted to the curb, Sunshine.

idalily| 11.18.11 @ 3:24PM

But WHY are the jobs IN India to begin with? Because the companies could not make the profits here at home. WHY? Because LIBERALS keep taxing, putting in regulations and wage mandates and unsustainable union demands that strangle companies and make it a nightmare to do business here. India is much more business friendly than America today. Again, thanks liberals. Thanks a lot.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 10:46PM

God you are dumb. You think there are none of those issues in India or China? But go find out for yourself why India and China are eating our lunch. As the price of fuel has risen companies are coming back to the US, because it's cheaper than shipping. Why do you think German and Japanese auto companies located here? For fun? Go learn something hun.

idalily| 11.19.11 @ 4:41PM

I'm dumb? That's your answer? Tha is the answer of a child. How old are you? I did find out why China and India are eating our lunch, as you put it. I explained it to you above, and you said nothing to refute it, HUN.

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 9:11PM

I work for a company that hires offshore workers, hun, and the # 1 reason always given for looking for offshore is CHEAP wages. What is so hard to understand about that? Until wage levels are on an even level, that will always be true and management WILL chase after low wages. It is the # 1 move all managers make to save money - layoff workers, pay less wages, pay part-timers to save on benefits. Profits, yes, they chase profits, but other than cost of goods produced, labor is a company's biggest cost. Drop your cost, and you make more profit . Wow, that's not too hard to grasp. But you miss the larger point. Managers are lazy, and will take the easy way out every time - lower the wages somehow. It's really very simple, macroeconomics notwithstanding.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 3:58PM

The "company" should be 100% free to choose wherever they want to locate their facility.

That's called "freedom", jackass...and it's something you Libs don't like, especially if it means you have to assume some responsibility for your own damn lives.

MAYBE US workers are overpaid for a lot of what they do?

Plenty of jobs in my industry ARE booted overseas, dumbass...and they go because of incessant, absurd demands from Union dickheads who want $60/hour for turning screws on an assembly line. Sorry, but they're NOT worth it.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 10:48PM

And, you are worth your pay? Anyone with the proper training can do the job you do, so are you not concerned dickhead about your own job? Or do you want the free market to f* you too?

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 3:52PM

Purple guy is just another union government hack wasting the taxpayers time and computers. But by all means keep attacking Gingrich.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 10:50PM

No, I just know the history of unions. The Republicants have convinced you that unions are the enemy through incessant propaganda. Just like the Nazis drummed the hatred of the Jews into the heads of the German people - enough were brainwashed to create the Holocaust. How dumb can you people be that you will not see.

John| 11.18.11 @ 7:17AM

Gov. Scott Walker's reform plan saved Wisconsin almost billions of dollars of spending cuts, and balanced the budget. Collective bargain is a freebies to the overpaid bureaucrats, who need to share their wealth with everybody else. Unions just recalled Gov. Walker, but we can fend off their efforts by educating the voters about the impact of overhauling the federal workforce. Unions' recall efforts, back in August, failed as the GOP held on to the majority of the WI Senate. No blank checks for the public sector unions.

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 7:40AM

They haven't recalled Scott Walker yet. They have just started an attempt to do so. I hopefully predict that such an effort will fail. I think and hope it is just a lot of noise to keep the democratic base riled up for the election next year. If they come to my house again they will be met with a lot of curses. My wife gave them what for, a couple weeks ago when they came around sniffing for potentiel support. We are going to all work hard to keep Scott as our governor. He is the best thing to happen to this state in my long lifetime.

Mac Jehoff| 11.18.11 @ 9:25AM

From your posts on this and other essays, I see that senility is creeping into your grey matter. Donald Berwick and Henry J. Aaron have a plan for you and America's other old pharts. Look up IPAB to see the details.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 10:44AM

I'm betting you're wrong. 50 thousand signatures to recall him in 2 days were garnered and they have months to collect the other 450 thousand. Ohio repealed Kasich's anti-union law. In Wisconsin, Walker didn't save any budget, he just redistributed the workers pension and pay to tax cuts for the wealthy and the connected. Wisconsin knows it, they recalled 2 Republican State Senators and Walker is next. Ohio has no provision for recall of 35% approval Kasich, but he would have been next if they had.
The 99% are waking up and the Tea Party is dead.

carnot| 11.18.11 @ 11:07AM

yawn.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 11:49AM

Wow... no response. Can't refute facts, can you Chuckles?

Bydand76| 11.18.11 @ 12:35PM

Purple,

You cannot guage the recall effort simply by the number of signatures gathered on the 1st. day.
Not only that, but there is still the certification process to go through AND in the event that the Gov. IS recalled there is still an election to deal with afterwords.

It would seem that all is not rosy for the Liberals in Wisconsin.. judging by the numbers at least.

The same thing happened in the recall elections in Wisconsin prior to this one.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.....races.html

http://www.publicpolicypolling.....mming.html

From what I can see (and I live in Wisconsin) the Recall is going to fail miserably... so far at least.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 3:05PM

Guess you ain't reading the same polls .. but I'm not surprised ... Walker in cahoots with the Koch Bros. plotted to pit public workers against everyone else, which is always what Republicans do.. They don't care who's lives they destroy, as long as they get their way.
Moreover, I thought 2010 election was about creating jobs .. so far all these new R governors have done is get rid of jobs faster than a cat covering you know what. You think the peoople don't see that?

idalily| 11.18.11 @ 3:27PM

And if Walker is recalled, what will you gain? You'll go back to the same union-controlled, outrageous wages/benefits packages and other unsustainable utopian workers of the world unite wet dream, the tax base will continue to leave for other, more business friendly states (or countries) and Wisconsin's government will go broke. When the buck stops and Wisconsin is bankrupt, Scott Walker will be saying, "Told you so." Wise up, liberals, for the love of God. WE ARE BROKE. What about that is so hard to understand?

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 10:55PM

Why don't you ask your Corporate Friends to spend some money and create jobs? I thought that's what the job creators do? Why haven't they? They're sitting on 2 Trillion in cash and not creating jobs ... why not?
Because we don't have a capital problem in this country, we have a demand problem. No demand, no production needed, no workers needed... it's simple. Give people jobs, start them spending, production is needed, jobs are created. Where the money comes from is from ??
Guess? Who will hire them? Hmmmm?

idalily| 11.19.11 @ 4:50PM

Who are my "corporate friends?" You mean the dozens of small corporate business owners I know who are barely getting by because of the regulations, healthcare rules, minimum wages and paperwork YOUR LIBERAL IDEOLOGY keeps forcing into the workforce? Those corporate friends?

To answer your second question, WHY SHOULD THEY? Do you think coporations exist to provide you with a job? No, they are there to make money for them and for their families. They don't owe you or anyone a job, an explanation or the time of day. I already explained to you why they are sitting on what money they have. They are sitting on it because of the UNCERTAINTY your lame ass President is creating in the economy.

Companies don't exist to "give" people jobs. They exist to make money, for which goal they may or may not need to hire workers. If and when they choose to do that, they will hire. Make the conditions favorable (low taxes, fewer regulations, less paperwork, less risk of lawsuits, etc.) and they will hire more people and make more money. Are you really so naive as to believe companies exist to "give" jobs to people?

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 3:59PM

Oh noooooooo...The Koch Brothers!!!!

Run for the hills!

Only Rich LIBERALS are allowed to use their money in politics!!!

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 10:55PM

And what have the Koch Bros ever done for YOU?

Bydand76| 11.18.11 @ 5:01PM

How does that have anything to do with what you were previously talking about????

I provided you a legitimate source from which to compare numbers and which disproved your ridicoulous theory and you come back with "Republicans are bad because of the Koch Brothers"? WOW you're a mental giant Purple goof!

G*d you're a moron!

Not only that, but The State of Wisconsin HAS been adding jobs, you dipstick...second only to Texas.....do you even bother researching what you say or do you just say the first thing that comes out of your head like intellectual diarhea?

I don't even know why I bother trying to debate you.... You're an imbecile and you have no clue what you are talking about...

Left wing hack, nut-job twinkie.... Go back to playing with your Ken dolls, your friends at the OWS protests and licking the windows....

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." -Thomas Jefferson.

I will not respond to your idiotic garbage anymore...........

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 10:57PM

No one asked you to. You are free to stay in your cage and not consider other points of view. That is so noble of you. And the name-calling is so childish - just because you can't win your argument with facts, you'll run away and take your computer with you.. waaa waaa.

Oldefarte| 11.18.11 @ 12:26PM

No, fool, Ohio [and possibly Wisconsin too] is dead, if they 'stupidly' kowtow to these community organizing freakazoid labor unions who have historically gotten control of every governmental operation in this country. Walker's government has balanced their budget without needing to raise taxes for same, and all due to the twarting of Wisconsin's governmental unions. These unions are the reason why teachers work for 9 months and are paid for 12, receive free/non-contributing pensions and health care that is 200% above what private industry retirees receive. Oh but these private industry workers [that are being laid off into unemployment] still have to pay for these government workers benefits through their taxiation of income earned. You protesting morons have seen your last days of notiarity and the clock is ticking closer to 11/4/12 when the tea partiers, independents and Republicans will finish the job they started on 11/4/10, PROGRESSIVEGUY. Your favored Democrats have seen their last days in political office, and their political influence will continue to decline going forward. You idiots have been around my whole lifetime, protesting, blowin smoke up your worthless noses, costing hard working taxpayers time, energy and money with your wasting taxpayers' funds with Solyndras. You're done, you're toast, so go bye-bye and take your fellow progressives/liberals with you [and don't let the TAS door hit you in the ARS upon exit either]!!!!!!!!!!!

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 3:15PM

Well I guess you told me, huh Gramps? Since all you guys can put up to run against Obama are a bunch of bubble-headed ninnies that can't string 2 sentences together, a serial adulterer and Freddie Mac shill and a Mormon cult leader, I doubt you win anything in 2012.
However, it will be as it will be... Since union membership is only 7% of the population of workers - how much power do you really think they have? You're afraid of 7%? Really?
Our problems are not the result of unions, but, of course, you've been fed that line so long you believe it. Why does a CEO of a business that fails get golden parachutes and high bonuses? Why don't you rail about that? They do have money and power to bear.
Last Tuesday's elections belie your claim that the Democrats have seen their last days. In Iowa, Ohio, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Nevada, Maine, Arizona in state after state, the GOP was repudiated and scorned. So we'll see, but go ahead and scream your head off. Pretty soon, you will be hushed by the shock of the Blue wave coming.... 2011 was only a taste....
If you think the Tea Baggers was a big deal, you ain't seen nothing like the Occupy 99% ers ....

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 3:34PM

Purple guy is a another fat slob of a government employee using his computer at work to push the liberal line. Who is goining to run against Walker in this mythical recall, Gary George?

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 10:59PM

name calling is the low intelligence man's choice of weapon. I refuse to have an intelligent debate with the unarmed.

Con Chef (NB)| 11.19.11 @ 12:32AM

And yet again, you respond. Yes, you truly ARE the bigger man...

Simpleton.

skip| 11.19.11 @ 11:06AM

In this thread alone:

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 10:35AM:
"You're an idiot"

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 11:13AM:
"oh foolish one"

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 11:14AM:
"you dufus"

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 11:49AM:
"Chuckles"

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 10:50AM:
"Nabobs like you"

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 2:35PM:
"moronic"

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 2:40PM:
"dumb"

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 2:52PM:
"Take your head out of Rush Limbaughs' ass"

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 3:15PM:
"Tea Baggers"

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 4:06PM:
"clown"

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 4:35PM:
"you dweebs"

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 5:05PM:
"TeaBaggers"

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 5:17PM:
"you're a good for nothing stay at home, lazy son of a b*"

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 10:43PM:
"fascist"

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 10:46PM:
"God you are dumb"

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 10:48PM:
"dickhead"

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 10:50PM:
"How dumb can you people be"

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 10:59PM:
"name calling is the low intelligence man's choice of weapon. I refuse to have an intelligent debate with the unarmed."

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 11:10PM:
"Shame on you for your behavior. It's appalling. Moneygrubbers all."

Pimplepuss | 11.18.11 @ 11:11PM:
"I thought you would have learned that lesson behind stupidity from your Mommy when you were like what 7?"

All your idiotic pathetic and despicable emotional prattle, wholly lacking in any reason and experience based on any intelligence and honesty whatsoever, pathetically and despicably representing the typical pathetic and despicable social, political, and economic positions of a typical pathetic and despicable liberal, has had no redeeming value other than give conservatives pause to reconsider their position on abortion, and compemplate how obvious it is the world would be a less pathetic and less despicable place to live had certain abortions occurred, in hindsight.

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 9:15PM

Every single one of those is in response to name calling by others... when y'all can have a civil conversation, I will too. But I will not sit back and let you ppl call me names without response. It's childish, it's stupid, but if you give, you will get. Simple. Ha - and if I am giving some support to a woman's right to choose, the force is with me, my little padawan.

skip| 11.20.11 @ 1:08AM

You are a pathetic and despicable liar.

At 11.18.11 @ 10:35AM, which is the first post listed above, which began with "You're an idiot", was unprovoked.

It is that easy to prove you are a pathetic and despicable liar.

How can you look at yourself in a mirror? Or sleep?

What a pathetic and despicable liar.

idalily| 11.18.11 @ 3:40PM

Newt Gingrich may be a lot of things, but you have to be beyond stupid to call him inarticulate. He would kick Obama's ass in a debate.

As for Democrats seeing their last days, I wish. Alas, they are as hell-bent on taxing and regulating us to death as they ever were.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 4:00PM

Wassa' matter, sweetums?

Did mean ole' Scott Walker cause you to have to work for a living???

Boo-Hoo!!!

Redstateboy| 11.18.11 @ 1:53PM

Purpleguy.. and replace Scott Walker with who?
a Liber-ul Slave Party type who'll allow the private sector workers to continue to have their taxes confiscated to pay State public sector union employees twice the wages on average that they themselves earn along with benefit costs passed on to the private sector workers children and grand children?! Really Purp... you and Liber-uls like you have no ability to deal in the real world.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 3:18PM

Ask the people who pay them if Firefighters and Police, Teachers and Nurses that take care of all the citizens if those people don't deserve their pay and benefits. You should be asking the company management why their workers are worth less and why they have trimmed their benefits and pay raises? To paraphrase Herman Cain - If you don't make enough, don't blame the government - it's your own fault.

idalily| 11.18.11 @ 3:36PM

Jesus, when will you liberals stop harping about what people deserve? What does that have to do with anything in the real world? And where does the money to pay those public union workers what they "deserve" COME FROM? The tax base. It is the tax payers who take care of the public sector workers, not the other way around. You have it backwards.

The fact is that liberal controlled state and city governments are cesspools because they keep pushing the tax base for more and the tax base is LEAVING. The property values drop, the tax revenue drops, and people leave, thereby making the problem even worse. God, look at New Jersey if you want an example of how this works. Or California. How many taxpayers did CA lose to Texas last year? It was huge. WAKE UP. Public employees only work if the tax base can pay for them. If the tax base leaves, then what? You have Detroit. Or Trenton. Or LA. Or Chicago. Or any of the other liberal, union-controlled, crime-ridden, ghetto-infested inner city slums. Yeah, liberals care so much about workers. Until they kill the golden goose and the jobs move to India. Thanks, unions. Thanks a lot.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 11:10PM

7 % of the workforce has done all that? Really? Where did you go to school? "The property values drop, the tax revenue drops, and people leave, thereby making the problem even worse." - doesn't that sound familiar to you? When did people say that - that's a racist remark and now you use it for unions. I guess once rotten, always rotten.
Help me understand how when Unions were 30-40% of the labor force we had the biggest, best, most robust economy in the world if they drag down the economy? They don't, that's a myth of the right to make their point. Just like the supposed Welfare Queen of Ronald Reagan- didn't exist, never did and he admitted as such. But you all believed it... Belief is a strange thing - it doesn't have to be based on facts. You've decided that Democrats, Liberals and Unions are bad and therefore anything anyone ever says bad about them, you believe.

Just like the Nazis convinced the German people that all Jews were bad, awful deserved to be put to death. Don't you hear how you sound? And, I'm, guessing your Christian to boot. Christian, Really? What would Jesus do? Love thy neighbor? Give Caesar what is Caesars? Let you without sin cast the first stone? Shame on you for your behavior. It's appalling. Moneygrubbers all.

idalily| 11.19.11 @ 4:59PM

When unions were 30-40% of the workforce, you HAD to join. It was closed shop and extortion. Your statistic means nothing. And you may not realize that the rant above makes NO sense. It's not even coherent.

BTW, you are doing it AGAIN. Throwing in a cliched liberal assumption, this time about my religion. You just can't help yourself, can you? It's a bit like Tourette's, really. Maybe you should see a doctor, HUN.

idalily| 11.19.11 @ 4:59PM

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 9:16PM

Did you think I didn't see your rant the first time? You had to dup it?

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 3:42PM

The teacher and all otherpublic employees are protected by civil service stautes. They have huge job protection compared to evertone else. I am the first guy to call for getting rid of the unions on the Journal blog. After about a week that I started the campaign the governor came out weith his plan. I happen to love public empoyess. my mother was a Milwukee public school teacher. My brother a Milwaukee ghetto teacher and vice principle. My father in law was a milwaukee Principle and my mother in law a Milwaukee teacher. I have a lot more. My brother was totally disgusted with the unions. He thought they ruined the school systems.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 11:02PM

They didn't, management did. They always cause 85% of all problems in running things, company or government. But management has the tools to cover it up and blame someone else. the Low information crowd falls for it every time.

Proud and Purple| 11.19.11 @ 2:36AM

Purple Guy, I am fiscal conservative - you trump up the public sector unions which have many states' budgets deep in the red. Unlike the FED, the states cannot just print MORE money to pay their debts - I disagree with forced union dues and WE are the employers of the public sector unions. The Democratics have a symbiotic relationship with the unions to look the other way - because of all the union money thrown at politicians to look the other way when they make their demands on the American taxpayer for benefits that are way out of line with comparable private sector unions - and oh my God to ask them to pay a little more for the medical benefits - how dare the states try to act in a fiscally responsible way because they cannot afford these GOLD lined benefit and retirement packages of the public sector unions. I also notice you don' talk about Virginia in the most recent election --- where conservatives and republicans have made even more in roads into state and local government. Virginia's budget success certainly was not due to Democratic budget controls. We will replace our current Socialist in Chief. Proud and Purple - Skol Vikings!

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 9:30PM

Good for you. As I have noted, the way you get people to do what you want is to find a wedge issue, and pound and pound away at it. that is exactly what the Republicants have done for 30 years. Unions bad, and now public sector unions make more .. uh-oh make them the bogie man. Problem is, they are in large part the people that take care of kids, our sick, save us from crime and fire, streets and sanitation - and the people in the majority are with them. So Ohio's people rejected that crap legislation of Kasich's ...
But you really should check out the additional tax breaks that the States that are in such dire straits are able to give by taking it away from the middle class - which I assume you are and everyone on this site. Why do you think the top 10% have garnered all of the increase in wealth in this country over the last 30 years? Can you explain that?

martin j smith| 11.18.11 @ 7:17AM

When there is new leadership for the Republican side that are Conservative with backbone then there is a shot at the fight to stop spending. The current leaders are currupt and cowardly. No Confidence in the at all NONE

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 7:48AM

Bill you are doing a great job of exposing Gingrich and his many horrible actions. The people that pushed this fraud have a lot of egg on their faces. Praise Jesus. God bless the Pope.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 9:42AM

Ummm...what's wrong with earning money as a Consultant from "healthcare companies"???

Seriously...I'd like someone to explain that to me.

Are "healthcare companies" evil?? Are people who get paid to consult "healthcare companies" also evil?

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 10:48AM

No, but when former Congressmen or Senators do it, you know it's not what they know, but who they know that can get them access to the decision makers and so they are paid to shill for they paymasters. That's at least unethical, if not criminal. Lobbying without registering as a lobbyist is still lobbying. And, when you have special knowledge of the government (which a former Speaker of the House has) and use that knowledge to line your own pockets - that's unethical, immoral and borders on fraudulent. Free advice, give all you want, but when you get paid for it, it's seedy, slimy and tainted ... certainly NOT Presidential material.

carnot| 11.18.11 @ 11:10AM

ahhh...now we get to why PG is dangerous. It doesn't require any facts to be "guilty"...it doesn't require any personal knowledge....just supposition.

It may not have occurred to yet....but when the "cleaning up" comes...your name is going to be on the list.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 11:53AM

Are you really that naiive that you don't know about the revolving door between industry and former Congress people? Really? you are unaware? Yes I am dangerous, pointing to facts that you cannot refute, or at least don't know how to refute.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 11:14AM

Sorry, but you're not convincing anyone that what these men and women do is either unethical or criminal.

These organizations have a RIGHT to tap into the expertise of a consultant; that's why they hire them!

And I guess you're also DEEPLY concerned about the revolving door between BIG journalism and government, too...right??? About how so many left-wing pols and "consultants" end-up as reporters and anchormen - Like George Stephanopoulis??

And of course, you're probably OUTRAGED that former Democrat Congressman consult for leftwing organizations like Unions, right???

Riiiiiight.....

Free advice? That's simply stupid. If you're good at something, and have information that people want, WHY would you give it away???

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 11.18.11 @ 11:32AM

The reason is simple.

It's a con game where Newt claimed he told Fannie/Freddie that there was a bubble in the housing market and for that he got 1.6 million.

They got that information for free from the OFHEO in 1998 and no one paid attention. Go to the OFHEO website and get the report yourself.

While Newt and his think tank were sucking up 37 million selling access to Congress during the health care debate the public was seeing their insurance rates go up 40%. The money has to come from somewhere.

Newt Gingrich is just another Congressional rat hanging on to the ship until it sinks. He should resign from the race and today would be the best plan.

He won't because he and others tied to the teat of government think what they are doing by selling influence is swell.

It also explains his appeareance on the bench with Nancy Pelosi. It's all politics and there's nothing a political whore like Newt won't do to sell his country or his beliefs out to the highest bidder.

I can't explain it any better than that.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 1:03PM

Again...you've failed to explain how or why any of this is illegal or unethical.

People get information from all kinds of sources.

If FM/FM wanted to pay Newt Gingrich for his information, that's their business.

"Access" and information is what consultants sell. That's how business works.

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 11.18.11 @ 1:34PM

You can't be that astute.

It's what stinks about Washington.

The American taxpayer pays the salaries of Congress and then Newt and others of his ilk sell access to the Halls Of Congress and the public always get screwed in the process.

If you think that's good so be it.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 4:06PM

No, what "stinks" is that people are corrupt.

Having knowledge, and receiving a just compensation for your services does NOT make you automatically corrupt.

NOR does lobbying DC on behalf of your industry or business make you corrupt.

What's corrupt is when people use their position/influence to gain an unfair/illegal/unethical advantage.

Newt was NOT in Congress when he was consulting. Should he NOT work?

Additionally, he did NOT sell access to Congress since he wasn't a Congressman anymore.

Did he use his personal connections to help his clients?

Yeah. So what?!?! That's what consultants and advocates do!

And depending on how many people his firm employs, and how much their expenses are, $37 million over 10 years is NOT an astronomical fee.

There are advertising companies in NYC that bill >$170 million per year, and that's considered average.

idalily| 11.19.11 @ 5:02PM

Well said.

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 11.20.11 @ 7:32AM

Just compensation isn't selling influence as a result of a public sector paycheck. Here's a great editorial from Sarah Palin:
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....lenews_wsj
Mark Twain famously wrote, "There is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress." Peter Schweizer's new book, "Throw Them All Out," reveals this permanent political class in all its arrogant glory. (Full disclosure: Mr. Schweizer is employed by my political action committee as a foreign-policy adviser.)

Mr. Schweizer answers the questions so many of us have asked. I addressed this in a speech in Iowa last Labor Day weekend. How do politicians who arrive in Washington, D.C. as men and women of modest means leave as millionaires? How do they miraculously accumulate wealth at a rate faster than the rest of us? How do politicians' stock portfolios outperform even the best hedge-fund managers'? I answered the question in that speech: Politicians derive power from the authority of their office and their access to our tax dollars, and they use that power to enrich and shield themselves.

The money-making opportunities for politicians are myriad, and Mr. Schweizer details the most lucrative methods: accepting sweetheart gifts of IPO stock from companies seeking to influence legislation, practicing insider trading with nonpublic government information, earmarking projects that benefit personal real estate holdings, and even subtly extorting campaign donations through the threat of legislation unfavorable to an industry. The list goes on and on, and it's sickening.

Astonishingly, none of this is technically illegal, at least not for Congress. Members of Congress exempt themselves from the laws they apply to the rest of us. That includes laws that protect whistleblowers (nothing prevents members of Congress from retaliating against staffers who shine light on corruption) and Freedom of Information Act requests (it's easier to get classified documents from the CIA than from a congressional office).

The corruption isn't confined to one political party or just a few bad apples. It's an endemic problem encompassing leadership on both sides of the aisle. It's an entire system of public servants feathering their own nests.

Margie| 11.18.11 @ 2:34PM

I do believe it's called free market enterprise!

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 3:20PM

NO,it's called cronyism and insider trading ... both which are frowned upon... There is nothing free market about it. You couldn't bid on the job, could you? Only if you held a public position could you and you are leveraging your crony connections to make a killing. If you think that's okay, well go ahead and vote for Newt.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 4:07PM

Cronyism?

See Obama's relationship with GE or SOLYNDRA before you start lecturing us on cronyism, jackass...

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 10:00PM

Once again, 2 wrongs don't make a right... we're talking about the Newtster today.

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 3:49PM

Other words Margie are influence peddling, bribey, corruption, looting the Treasury. Newt Gingrich is like the Fed and the whole Federal government big bloated and out of control.

Margie| 11.18.11 @ 10:20PM

Jack:
Newt's a lot better than Ron Paul who can't tell the difference between an enemy of America and a friend of America.

And he's a million times better than the current occupant of the people's House.
Ya know, the man who thinks he's king and dictator all rolled into one.

Marx would be SO proud.

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 3:46PM

Wrong: You may as well give up on Gingrich. He is done. all the kings horses and all the kings men could not put him back together again. You neocons are getting desperate. Every trick you try is turning out to be a big flop.

Con Chef (NB)| 11.18.11 @ 7:29PM

No more so than your "president."

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 11:11PM

So because the other side does it, it's okay? I thought you would have learned that lesson behind that stupidity from your Mommy when you were like what 7?

Proud and Purple| 11.19.11 @ 3:01AM

Yes, it is kind of like the mandatory public sector UNION kickbacks to their favorite Democratic Politicians to look the other way when they want to line their pockets and they "represent" the average working "Joe". In Michigan if you care for your disabled adult children you are automatically considered a public sector employee and the benefits the parents receive from the State of Michigan to assist to go towards the care of their disabled children actually a large partion goes to monthly union "dues" --- and the state democratic members certainly do not express their outrage at this "symbiotic" double-dipping and abuse of OUR money.

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 10:01PM

And where did you pick up that little sugar plum? A link, a reference?

Proud and Purple| 11.19.11 @ 10:34PM

Purpleguy,
how about this one:
http://www.nationalreview.com/.....rew-stiles or this one
http://www.weeklystandard.com/keyword/SEIU
That should be enough fruit for you to pick from, Purple Guy. --- Proud and Purple.

Grzmlyk| 11.18.11 @ 9:57AM

Newt Gingrich is a facile debater. And that is the extent of his positives. Everything else is a negative. The man is a total fraud.

I'm afraid that all of the GOP wannabes either have fatal flaws (Perry, Gingrich, Romney, Cain all come to mind) or are simply not going to get to the top tier (Paul, Bachman, Santorum).

Those of you who think anybody here can save this counry are kidding yourselves. Did you see that commercial with a huge mass of nice, responsible, middle-of-the-road looking seniors all very reasonably telling us they paid into the Social Security system and demanding they get theirs? Multiply that by all the various recipients of government largess - not one of whom is willing to look at the problem realistically (wah, wah, I WANT MINE!), and what you have is a very sick, corrupt, dying, sclerotic kleptocracy with a fatally entitlement-oriented critical mass whose prognosis is terminal.

When a country's populace determines they can vote themselves goodies - and they realize that, once they vote themselves these goodies they quickly become ossified into "inalienable rights" - and when politicians of both parties are so corrupt that they do not give a damn about anything but keeping the spigot open as wide as possible so that their own thieving asses can stay in power, a nation-state is doomed.

Our economic collapse is a fait accompli (not even Ron Paul is superman, and, were he elected, he would be DWARFED, and then gelded, by the status quo of the intrenched corruptocrats); nobody has a magic wand that can even slow down the inertial momentum that is carrying us over the cliff.

We have decided as a mob - and I most certainly include those on the right who actually believe that the GOP isn't in on this heist of our country - to close our eyes, hold hands and pretend the concrete below is not rising up to us very quickly.

When half the country is in the cart and half the country is pulling the cart, the cart stops. Many conservatives take me to task for my doomsday scenario - but all they can offer in rebuttal are variations on the theme, "but that CAN'T happen here!" I'm sure that's what they thought in the hay day of Christendom - yet, to their amazment, the Christians lost half their territory to Islam. I'm sure the Romans, in their opulent complacency, thought it couldn't happen there. And yet Rome fell. ALL empires fall. The British Empire, the Ottoman empire, Austria Hungary - all relics of history. It is our turn, and it's happening NOW.

I would like to ask Rush Limbaugh and all the conservative pundits who are whistling past the graveyard this question: If America is a center-right country, how come we have a leftist culture, leftist politics, and a leftist economic world view? Please explain. Is it that our formidable majority was hijacked by a socialist minority? Well, then, since we've allowed this hijacking to be so all-encompassing, we have in fact been complicit and we deserve our fate.

The American Experiment. RIP.

To all of those who will say, "so what are we supposed to do, lie back and just accept this?" Do whatever you want - pretend it's not happening, pretend that elections matter, build a panic room and stock it with food - whatever. I suppose that I, like most others, simply cannot imagine what awaits us, and so I'll vote, I'll continue to live within my means and I'll try to retain a sense of normality - right up until the earth underneath my feet falls away.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 10:07AM

The defeatist attitude of some on this board is staggering.

America is down, but we are most assuredly NOT out.

We've been through worse than this before - WWII, for example - and we not only survived, we emerged stronger and better.

The Great Depression lasted 13 years, and saw 25% unemployment. This doesn't even compare.

Getting rid of Obama is STEP # 1. The markets will immediately begin to rebound when they sense he's going to lose, and he IS going to lose. The issue in 2012 will be THE ECONOMY, and no amount of media chatter will change the perception of the American people that the economy sucks.

Gird yourselves for a fight, folks, and get ready. This is America! No matter what the situation, our best days are ALWAYS AHEAD OF US!

Grzmlyk| 11.18.11 @ 1:17PM

How so, Dr. Right? How are we going to get out of this hole when everybody in Washington is still digging?

How are we going to avoid the fate of Europe, when, collectively, our problems are the same, but so much bigger?

Seriously, please be specific: How exactly are we going to get out of borrowing $200 million every single hour of every single day, 24 hours a day, seven days a week? And we're still GROWING government. We haven't even taken our foot off the gas pedal. So how are we going to convince politicians to take away the teat of government without a major catastrophe breaking the status quo?

We are far, far worse off right now than we were in the Great Depression or World War II. That is a fiscal fact.

Seriously, it sounds good as a rallying cry, but how are our best days ahead of us when the welfare state is now considered an inalienable right for half the population, when our judiciary continues to move leftward, when our senators and representatives are cowed by the Leviathan, when the Leviathan itself continues to grow, when we are OUT OF MONEY and morally bankrupt?

How?

Waking up in the morning and looking in the mirror and telling yourself that "every day, in every way, I am getting better and better" doesn't make it so.

Reality. When you drop a glass onto concrete from a distance of 10 feet, it is going to shatter. Every single time. We've already dropped; we're just waiting for impact.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 4:11PM

Sorry, but we are not far worse off than we were during the Great Depression, or when we got attacked at Pearl Harbor and had to declare war on Japan and Germany with a military that was smaller than the military of Yugoslavia!

We're not worse off than we were on 9/12/01, either.

If we want to fix this problem, all we need to do is unleash the American economy with sound, Conservative, free-market principles.

Have faith!!

W| 11.18.11 @ 11:00PM

G-man,
We need to cut taxes, cut spending, drill for oil, and cut regulations. This will reduce the unemloyment to 4%, which is considered full employment. A good economy and lower spending will take care of the deficit.
Of course, we have to beat Obama, and elect a more fiscally conservative Senate and more fiscal conservatives in the House. We have too many Republicans joining with the Democrats who want to raise taxes as the solution.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 10:50AM

Wow - looks to me as if you should be looking for a new country to call home. Negative Nabobs like you we don't need.

Oldefarte| 11.18.11 @ 12:31PM

What WE don't really need are morons like yourself that either consciously or otherwise buy into the liberal/progressive BS and elect these community organizer Acornist to the highest office in the land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Grzmlyk| 11.18.11 @ 1:38PM

Actually, it's YOU - and the thousands of fools like YOU - who have killed this country. You have more to answer for than your tiny brain will ever contemplate.

It is the liberals who are the destructive nihilists. Just read Animal Farm. But then again, I'm sure you'll interpret it as a ringing endorsement of socialism. Such is the mental illness that is liberalism.

kate| 11.18.11 @ 7:35AM

oh no, not again

Con Chef (NB)| 11.18.11 @ 3:11PM

"Because the Communists weren't liberals."

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

"How do you tell the difference between a communist and an anti communist. Well, a communist is someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And anti communist is someone who UNDERSTANDS Marx and Lenin."...Reagan

Go pitch your fart in a gale somewhere else, DRed. No one here but Purplepuke is buying.

DRed| 11.18.11 @ 3:38PM

The fact that you don't understand the vast differences between a contemporary American liberal and a Stalinist era communist is not really something to brag about, Con.

Con Chef (NB)| 11.18.11 @ 5:12PM

I know where the road leads. Its leads the same place it has since Caesar overthrew the Republic.

"Not to know what has been transacted in former times is to be forever a child. If no use is made of the labors of past ages, then the world must always remain in the infancy of knowledge."...Cicero

Just look at what the Euro welfare state has become. Then tell me that you guys think you can do it better. And in doing so, you'd be saying the same thing every other leftist has said since time & memorial.

Proud and Purple| 11.19.11 @ 5:19AM

You know liberal under FDR - Alger Hiss had that very SAME problem , DRed :) --

Proud and Purple| 11.19.11 @ 3:26AM

Rock on Con Chef ! Ayn Rand was the perfect example of the Anti-Communist --- she was a radical capitalist. She was born into and intimately aware of the abuses and inherent flaws of the Soviet Socialist State. Ayn loved our country and capitalism and exceptionalism - unlike our current POTUS who tells anyone who will listen WE are not any more exceptional than anyone else. WE ARE JOHN GALT! :)

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 10:03PM

Yes, and she laughs all the way to the bank - or I should say her heirs do for buying her tripe.

Proud and Purple| 11.19.11 @ 10:41PM

So Purple Guy, are you saying we are not better than the Soviet Socialist State ?- who knows better than someone who actually lived through it. You may and may not agree with her philosophy of Objectivism - but it is a powerful testimony from one who has seen both sides --- radicals for capitalism. I would read your "tripe" of your political philosophy - probably make me smile and try to make you see that Unions have had their purpose- but especially public sector unions are fraught with real and potential abuses. - Proud and Purple

Margie| 11.18.11 @ 7:34AM

Enjoy Hell, Dan, you Liar.

God hates liars, just like he hates all Popes because they are big liars. You'll have plenty of company in the Lake of Fire.

vtwin| 11.18.11 @ 7:32AM

Its Perry! No, it's not...it's Cain! No, it's not...it's Gingrich! Hah-hah!!! Gingrich! What a great Republican and moral guy! If this is the best you losers can do its going to be four more years for Barack!

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 7:22AM

It is Ron Paul or ruin. There's nothing else to say.

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 7:45AM

This little hasbaret who keeps stealing my name just wrote my great phrase it is Ron Paul or ruin. I will do my own commenting sonny. Well from now on today all my comments will state praise Jesus and God Bless the Pope. I must be effective or they wouldn't keep pestering me.

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 9:51AM

IMPORTANT MESSAGE TO ALL FELLOW AGENTS OF THE ISRAELI PROPAGANDA MINISTRY: PAY ATTENTION!

Charlie-Lima-India-November-Tango

Juliet-Alpha-Charlie-Kilo

dash-dot-dot-dash-dot-dash-dash-dash

All day long I'd biddy-biddy-bum If I were a wealthy man.

Kryptonite will kill Superman

Gideon.

Streisand-Streisand

Overlord.

There was a farmer, had a dog

Koufax-Greenberg-Cohen

Fiddler

Gefilte

The Czar has fallen

THAT IS ALL.

Sayeret Matkal| 11.18.11 @ 10:55AM

Roger, Goy Boy 2. Operation Shikse Bang is commencing.

Clint| 11.18.11 @ 4:57PM

Oh Realy, American Spectator's Resident Joisey White Trash Anti-Catholic Bigot Twin, Dr.Reich.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Right Here On American Spectator & In Iowa.

RCV| 11.20.11 @ 7:59PM

Roger, Dr.R, from the Jew disguised as an Anglican Irish-Belgian American liberal Democrat.

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 8:04AM

Sean Everyone of these phoney 7 dwarfs is being exposed and are dropping like flies. It is down to Romney an Dr. Paul as I have been saying for weeks.
Ron and Rand for Peace, Prosperity, and Liberty.

Praise Jesus . God bless the Pope.

idalily| 11.18.11 @ 3:44PM

Jeez, some days I wonder why I get up in the morning with this cheery sort of stuff to read. It is this sort of defeatism that got us here. We didn't fight. It's time to fight, not plan our funeral.

Margie| 11.18.11 @ 2:22PM

Grz,

I'm wondering if your defeatism is just as much a sin as my anger that you say I constantly indulge in and thrive on, sir?

Shall I now judge you as a Clint or a despicable Jack as you relegated me to that honor?

No, I'll let God be the Judge, since He is truly just, and can tell the difference between righteous anger and pure hatred.

Be well, my old friend.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 10:53AM

Have YOU ever thought that the Republican Establishment has paid the other bumpkins in the race (Perry, Cain, Gingrich, Bachman, Santorum, Paul) to make Romney look good by comparison? They have always wanted him to run ...

Steve| 11.18.11 @ 5:09PM

Hey Idiot Margie, there's no Dan here for you to attack. Is this just a reflex action for you, just spit out attacks.When did you talk to God about the popes, idiot.

Margie| 11.18.11 @ 5:22PM

As I said, that wasn't my post, imbecile.

Steve| 11.18.11 @ 8:06PM

Margie the Villlage Idiot,
You said the same yesterday. You post so much crap you can't remember. Who would want to use your name, moron margie?

Margie| 11.18.11 @ 10:20PM

Screw you, asshole.

Steve| 11.19.11 @ 2:26PM

You can take the girl out of Jersey but you can't take the Jersey out of the girl. Potty mouth. Very Christian language.

Margie| 11.20.11 @ 6:07PM

Well, sorry there judge of all.
Now, what about you're constant lying, and that of certain others here?
How Christian is that, punk?

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 4:13PM

Liberal is just a squishy western phrase for socialists and communists.

They want the same things - STATE CONTROL of everything, including us.

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 10:04PM

Not really. But you will not see.

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.18.11 @ 7:41AM

It can't go on forever, so when will it stop?

I disagree. It CAN go on forever, and it WON'T STOP, until there's Blood on the ground.

Everyone in Washington KNOWS the situation, and yet, it continues, unabated. How can that be? Don't they see the TRAIN heading for them?

It didn't Fall in a Day, either.
But it did FALL.

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 8:00AM

You forgot to mention all the Republican pigs who have been slopping at the trough like Newt Gingrich. The Tea Party rebellion continues. Kick out or keep out all the old hacks, like Tommy Thompson, George Allen, Dick Lugar and Orin Hatch. Praise Jesus. God bless the Pope.

Grzmlyk| 11.18.11 @ 11:05AM

Bingo, Timothy.

Even now we have Republicans - many of whom may geniunely want to see the Leviathan brought to heel - who very quickly learn The Way It Works in Washington. You don't bring the Leviathan to heel. It brings YOU to heel. When you are an elected official working in Washington DC, you become part of the exortion racket whether you like it or not.

I used to live in NYC, and I took the subway to work every day. One day (like many days), there was a problem with a train somewhere, so everything got backed up. I normally changed trains at Times Square. Well, I was waiting for a local and the express came down the local track (a not uncommon occurrence when one track was hopelessly clogged); I was in a giant mass of people and the entire mass just swarmed onto the train. I didn't want that train, but I was swept onto it by the inexorable force of the mob. I learned a lot about life that day.

Thus are Republicans - even good ones - coopted by the swell of corruption.

We have begun the death spiral. America in 2011 is very much like the doomed and incompetent pilot JFK Jr. Confused by hazy conditions at dusk and unqualified to fly using instruments only, he became disoriented and began to lose altitude. He kept pointing his plane to the ground because he couldn't tell up from down or left from right. As he continued his erroneous correction, the spiral tightened and became increasingly impossible to break out of. All too soon, physics took over and pulling out the spiral became an option that was foreclosed to him. He died, and he took his two innocent passengers with him.

So too many people - be they cynical politicians merely preserving the illusion that government can fix this or the great mass of ingenuous fools all too eager to buy that snake oil - repeat the erroneous mantra that government greed isn't even an issue, and that Keynesianism will get us out of this: Somehow, ostensibly smart people actually believe that getting further into debt will get you out debt. Spending money that does not exist will create money. That government can continue to grow, that you can be forced to charge a cerain amount for a good or service without impacting your desire - or ability - to provide that good or service (hence the endless rows of empty bread shelves in the Soviet Union, which had the largest tract of arable land for growing wheat in the world).

Look at how many people still support Obama, still think he's actually helping this country. And what kills me is that even after he and his cronies have gutted these fools' own futures, they'll STILL blame it all on conservatism.

What a sweet deal leftist government has - they can walk up to you, stick a gun in your face, rob you, pistol whip you and then walk away with your money and your possessions - and, if you're a typical foolish liberal, you won't bat an eye at this assault. You'll simply attribute your loss - if you ever get around to noticing you've been mugged - to a lack of tolerance on the part of some inchoate conservative principle.

This is the state to which modern man has descended. And we've had this date with destiny since Woodrow Wilson.

Socialism does not exist; it did not exist in the Soviet Union except as empty slogans. What DID exist was a corrupt, totalitarian ruling class that made decisions that benefitted only itself based on political self interest, not economic reality. Socialism always devolves instantaneously into a sort of quasi-fascism/crony capitalism, which is what we have in America today.

If we are truly a center-right country and we have allowed this to happen, we are every bit as guilty as the Bill Ayerses and Barack Obamas of the world.

We are the authors of our fate; we have made our bed. We are about to be forced to lie in it.

Margie| 11.18.11 @ 2:27PM

"We" doesn't include me, I protest!
Speak for thyself, man.
Those who don't bother voting, or those who are too defeatist to vote, along with those who love throwing away their votes, like the Paul-bots who refuse to vote for anyone who isn't their own~ THEY are to blame.

And WE get the government THEY deserve.

LET FREEDOM RING!
Mock that if you wish.

idalily| 11.19.11 @ 5:06PM

+1000. Well said, Margie.

Margie| 11.20.11 @ 6:05PM

Thanks, idalily. Like I said, you're an OK gal.

John| 11.18.11 @ 7:42AM

Obama's loyal constituent, SEIU, spent $400 million to elect him. He funneled millions of dollars contribution to those labor unions in return. No balance budget until we reign in on the public sector unions. If we can do it in WI, we can reform the Federal budget by making all 50 states to be the Right to Work States. We need Gov. Rick Perry who pledged to reform the federal government.

djtoland| 11.18.11 @ 7:47AM

There is only one entity that can cut US gov't spending - the market. This will happen when the world finally gets tired of buying Treasuries, and the dollar collapses.
We are close to that point now as evidenced by the number one holder of US Treasuries - the Federal Reserve.....

Jack in Wi| 11.18.11 @ 7:54AM

tThe only people buyingTreasuries now is the Federal reserve. It prints the money to buy the bonds it issues and then pays itself intrest which is distrbuted to its private owners. Audit the Fed. End the Fed. Praise Jesus. God Bless the Pope.

John| 11.18.11 @ 7:53AM

Abolish the public sector unions (SEIU), there we save $15 trillion over the next 15 years. No brainer!!!!!!!!!!

oldfart| 11.18.11 @ 7:56AM

1. If something is ignored long enough perhaps it will go away before the next election.
2. Blame everything on the other guy.
3. Practice your SGT Schultz impersonation.
As usual – THEY (none of them) just don’t get it. Perhaps they should sh_t in one hand and wish in the other and see which one fills up first.
The United States is a melting pot – everything on the bottom gets burned and the scum floats to the top.

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.18.11 @ 9:16AM

Could you please be more specific? Are you talking about Jackass in Wi? Clintoris? Or the other Idiot - Vtwin.
STOP RESPONDING TO JACKASS!
Wake up! Grow up! IGNORE HIM! And he will go away. WTF is wrong with you people?

John| 11.18.11 @ 8:07AM

I propose:
1. Abolish the public sector union (SEIU) in the Federal government
2.Pass the Balanced Budget Amendment (BBA),restricting on raising taxes and the debt limit, and on spending
3.Abolish several Federal departments and agencies (commerce, energy, education, EPA,FDA)
4.Reform the tax code and enact the Flat Tax plan of Gov. Rick Perry
5. Overhaul the Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid program

djtoland| 11.18.11 @ 8:07AM

Neither the Republicans or Democrats want to cut government spending - that is because a smaller government means less goodies to hand out to their supporters.
Consider the debt limit debate - the tea party pushed Congress to the limit - and what did we get for it? Nothing but another commission, whose recommendations will be ignored, just like Simpson-Bowles.
And if they fail, don't count on the trigger - as the automatic cuts aren't scheduled to take place until 2013 - plenty of time to repeal it.

djtoland| 11.18.11 @ 8:23AM

Everyone acts in their own perceived best interest.

In the last 3 years, the wealth of individual Congressmen and Congresswomen went up by 25%. Congress is getting rich by dishing out taxpayer money, both Republicans and Democrats - why would they stop?

If the dollar crashes, they won't be hurt - they are the rich elite, who, if they're smart, have a lot of gold and silver stashed away.

Trying to get Congress to cut spending is just "pissing in the wind."

John| 11.18.11 @ 8:29AM

Average Public sector unionized employee makes $150,000 a year, including salaries and benefits, more than double than that of the private sector employees. Bureaucrats are screwing up our Federal Government Budget, causing unlimited spending, waste, fraud, and abuse.

hardcard| 11.18.11 @ 8:51AM

TLP is 100% correct

John C.| 11.18.11 @ 8:53AM

Why not agree with the Dems on closing corporate tax loopholes / subsidies for real spending cuts in 2012? Both ideas are conservative. Table the tax reduction for now and make it an election issue.

But I must add that repatriating offshore taxes is a terrible and leftist idea. It just gives more incentives for (so-called) American multi-national companies to outsource more of our vital manufacturing base and middle class good-paying jobs -- this is backdoor international socialism.

GE paid zero income taxes and has still sent a taxpayer green factory to China and it is sovereignty sellouts like this that are the root cause of our economic malaise.

djtoland| 11.18.11 @ 9:09AM

John C.

I believe the reason that companies outsource to China, is because they can make more money this way. Isn't that the goal of every business, to make money.
Knowing this, we need to make it more profitable to manufacture here, instead of overseas. I read an article in which the CEO of Intel said that it costs a BILLION dollars more to open up a fab here in the US, than in China. As long as this is true, the fabs will be built in China.

John C.| 11.18.11 @ 9:23AM

We cannot and should not compete with slave labor. The global corporations are allowed and even encouraged to move our factories to communist China and then sell these products back to us while giving Americans pink slips -- unbelievable.

Our Founders would have forbidden this anti-American chicanery by global corporations. The Founders were also big on import tariffs to stop the selling out of America and to fund limited and legitimate government.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 9:27AM

Historically, the United States has had a budget of 20-22% of GDP. We are now at historical lows of 15.5% of GDP in taxes collected, which is woefully too low to sustain. Taxes must be raised - and, yes, spending cut to get us back to the 20-22% budget levels in the Federal Budget. Constantly crowing about too much spending and never asking for higher taxes really is not playing well with the American people. Even the wealthy are jumping into the fray - on the side of higher taxation. Yesterday on capitol hill a group of millionaires descended to implore Congress to raise their taxes to Clinton era tax rates to help the country in time of need.
Your Republican Congressmen are bending to the will of the American people - maybe not you folks here, but you aren't the majority of Americans - just some of the loudest and most vitriolic. Whether it's the repealing of the Kasich anti-union legislation in Ohio, the upcoming recall of Walker in Wisconsin or the Occupy Everwhere movement of the 99% crowd, 2012 is shaping up to be the year the American people take their country back from the ideologues that want to cut America to a second rate power - Republicans will lose next year because the people are wise to their tactics and true plan to harm America. Look at how long the Republican Congress has been in session - where are the jobs Mr Boner? Hmmm? the people know who's on their side, and you will to come next year. 11/6/2012, the day America rises up and smites the Phillistines on the right!

The Knife| 11.18.11 @ 9:54AM

You're dreaming Purpleguy. You're man Obama is off playing golf in Bali. He is Mr. Wall Street. You need to get over that. He shakes them down and Democratic fat cats get their share. This is the reality of a Democratic job's program. Warren Buffet needs to pay his back taxes and stop begging for meaningless tax increases. It is a spending problem and that is the only way to solve the problem. You might update your spending stats to Obama stats. Historical figures provide cover for the spendthrift Democratic Party. 2010 was bad for the Progressive movement, 2012 will bury them on the ash heap of history. You're going to have to think of a new name. First you trashed liberal and now progressive. Might I suggest, Parasitical Shakedown Artists.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 10:25AM

Can you read? 20-22% of GDP is the historical level for Federal spending... and we are at 15.5% ... what don't you understand about math? Spending is too high, but revenue is too low ... it's really simple arithmetic and the people know it. Your side is losing and will continue until they come 1/2 way spending cuts + tax increases 50:50... that's just the way it's going to have to be. If you cut too much, your bums will be out ... you'll have to cut your guys some slack and let them raise taxes or their out.... they know it, and they can only hope you will too. You aren't talking about cutting welfare Queen checks now baby - you're talking about cutting Grandma and Grandpa's health and Social Security and their children and grandchildren's security blanket - ain't gonna happen. You're dreaming if you think otherwise.
As far as names - how 'bout you change Republicants to the Know-nothing party.... Perry, Cain and the rest would be right on top of that heap. Mr. "Oops" and the Pizza Man are quite the joke ... Let us not forget serial adulterer and Freddie Mac devotee the Newtster ... and you think you'll win? Please ...

Doctor Right| 11.18.11 @ 10:27AM

What's it like to be totally wrong about everything?

Raising taxes DOES NOT grow the economy; it damages the economy.

That's been proven. The discussion is over.

The idea that spending can't be cut simultaneously with tax-cuts is illogical and utterly dumb.

WHO's money are these fools spending???

And please, if you swallowed that line of baloney from those "millionaires" (all BIG DEM-donors) about wanting to pay more taxes, then you're as dumb as they come. They were offered the chance at the meeting to pay more, and they ALL DECLINED! Don't believe me? See for yourself!

http://dailycaller.com/2011/11.....-up-video/

If you think "bending to the will of the American people" to follow the Constitution is extreme, then you're a complete ignoramus.

"Take back the country"? "OWS"??? Are you serious???

OWS is a phony movement fronted by Labor Unions and other BIG money Dem-contributors. These slacker idiots don't even know why they're protesting, that's how DUMB they are!

Most ironically, they're angry at the wrong people! They support the Party of BIG Government while simultaneously asking for less government! They yell at Wall Street all the while blissfully ignorant that Wall Street is Pro-Democrat!

Where are the jobs, Mr. "Boner"?? You're an idiot.

Want jobs, dummy? Then learn Economics 101!

Taking-back this country began in 2009. Next year, we REAL Americans will finish the job.

And if you ignorant left-wing punks are spoiling for a fight, then bring it on. We've had enough of your crap since the 1960's, and we're not playing by your rules anymore.

Purpleguy| 11.18.11 @ 11:23PM

they really got you don't they? Wow even spout all their talking points. I have neither the interest or willingness to dispute your diatribe now. Suffice to say if we followed the Constitution all our troubles would melt away like snowflakes... the heavens would open and choruses of Angels would sing out our praises. Got any more fairy tales ?

Con Chef (NB)| 11.19.11 @ 12:19AM

"Wow even spout all their talking points. I have neither the interest or willingness to dispute your diatribe now."

But yet you felt the need to respond. Illustrating Plato's saying that "wise men speak when they have something to say; fools, because they must say something."

And yes, if we followed the Constitution, our lives would be markedly better than it is now with socialist regressives like yourself "interpreting" it.

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 10:07PM

I don't interpret it ... That right wing Nazi Scalia and that fraudulent, corrupt man Clarence Thomas does. Both are on the take and still sit in judgement over us. They are a disgrace.

George S| 11.18.11 @ 11:45AM

Using GDP is a clever non-argument, i.e., sophistry. Here is the way to look at it:

According to the latest tax data from the IRS (2009), the number of tax returns with reported income over $200k is 3.9 million. The total reported income of those 3.9 million people is $1.96 trillion. Keep that number in mind.

The 2011 federal spending is projected at $3.6 trillion. That is $10 billion A DAY. If Obama and the Democrats confiscate every penny of those 3.9 million capitalists who make over 200k-- the "Rich" according to Obama -- that would mean:

The federal government could operate for 196 days. That's 6 and a half months. Barely half the year. On a 100% tax rate of people who earn over 200k.

So explain to me -- very slowly -- what GDP has to do with any of this?

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 10:17PM

Have no idea what your problem is with the benchmark that economists use of budget pegged to GDP %. If it's clever, praise them not me.
Now as far as the numbers - No one has ever said, except Rush Loudmouth - that anyone wants to tax anyone, let alone the wealthy at 100%. THAT is a complete fabrication.
Nor has anyone said the entire gap between budget and revenue should be made up by taxing the wealthy - another red herring.
Moreover, no has said to ONLY raise taxes, that is another myth promulgated by the right.
Having said all that to refute your silly argument, the nation collects roughly 2.2 Trillion/year in revenue. What most people advocate is a mix between budget cuts and raising revenue. That is, except those Republicants, and it isn't all of them, mind you, that won't raise taxes, period. But the country is in trouble and we need to do both to bridge the gap ... but let's try to do this without hurting the least among us, the children, the poor, the elderly, disabled and infirm.
I for one will be glad to see the automatic triggers kick in next week to get something going. At least it's some kind of compromise that will hurt everyone some.
Most people are willing to give a little more to help their country, but im not sure about the crowd here. How can you love your country and not help in her time of need with your dollars?

John C.| 11.18.11 @ 9:40AM

I agree that we need to make it cheaper to manufacture here and to eliminate onerous regulations but it will not stop the outsourcing --the limousine-liberal, multi-national corporations love cheap slave labor and Third World countries.

The Tea Party needs to stop siding with the liberal and corrupt Wall Street and get on the American-First conservative side of the outsourcing issue. They also need to start going after Fed-gone-wild printing monopoly money. Reckless federal spending is only part of the problem.

Stefan Stackhouse| 11.18.11 @ 9:56AM

This isn't the first time that a nation had gotten itself into this sort of fix. And yes, you are right, it can't and doesn't go on forever. The thing that ends it, though, has almost always been some sort of regime change. A totally new - and new sort - of government takes charge and makes wholesale changes to clear out the wreckage and restore some sort of order to the economy. This rarely, if ever, results in a resumption of the upward trend toward new and greater glories. More typical is a settling down to permanent "has been" nation status.

Is this what people want? I very much doubt it. Nobody really seems to be clearly spelling out what the stakes really are, though. People just assume that everything can just keep going on and on, and that nothing really matters very much. They couldn't be more wrong.

martin j smith| 11.18.11 @ 10:08AM

If there is any prayer at all to deal with this a) some one has to defeat Obama and the Socialists first. b) Whatever you think of any of the candidates if one of them does not do this ( see a ) then all is irrelevant . So, think about that before you go off too far far on MOST of our candidates. Ron Paul will leave our nation open to attack and there goes the economy. John Huntsman would see us to China ditto

Brian Goettl| 11.18.11 @ 10:09AM

That can be Barack Obama's new nickname: "Mr. $15 Trillion". Of course, next December it will have to be changed to Mr. $16 Trillion. But, a trillion dollars isn't what it used to be.

martin j smith| 11.18.11 @ 10:09AM

see should be sell us to china.

VonMisesJr| 11.18.11 @ 10:31AM

Elmendorf was at the CBO that had to score the Bills as presented by Congress. This is how Pelosi got ObamaCare scored to allegedly reduce spending over 10 years. They frontloaded the taxes and delayed the costs for four years.

Elmendorf is trying to tell the truth now that he is not bound by government chicanery. He is not the problem.

Today at www.jewishworldreview.com, Diana West tells how the records of the corrupt payoffs in Afghanistan have been sealed for 20 years. Congress does this all the time, just as the Obama Justice Dept. and White House refuse to provide information on "fast and furious" and "Solyndra."

I agree with Schweitzer. "Throw Them All Out" for their insider trading, crony capitalism and violation of our Constitutional rights.

cicero| 11.18.11 @ 10:36AM

The presidential election is getting to be a huge distraction. The real action must be in congress, and in particular the House, where it was intended.
Turning the economy is like turning an aircraft carrier - takes a long time. Stop the printing of money, and disallow the purchase of govt. bonds by the Fed, and reality begins to impose its rules.
Manufacturing transfers to China are coming to an end. Again, the marketplace is asserting itself. Price AND quality, as well as timely delivery actually mean something. Goods will be produced where they are consumed, in the very near future. Why do you think the foreign auto makers are establishing plants here?
What we are seeing now is the result of downgrading the education of the last two generations into thinking that prosperity is free. They have been electing what we have now - the buy-a-vote crowd. That will be coming to a very harsh end soon.

Nancy in NC| 11.18.11 @ 3:17PM

I agree with you. Heard a guy talking about the GOOOH (Get Our Of Our House) idea, but didn't take it seriously. Now I think he might be on to something. If interested, check out their website.

The problem, IMHO, is there is something in the water in Washington that turns decent people into the lowest form of pond scum. I could count on one hand the number of people that I would even allow in my home. Truly despicable people.

Speaking of despicable, some of the posts and posters on here today are pretty low. A reflection of why we have such a crappy government?

John| 11.18.11 @ 10:40AM

Wanna a BBA. First, win the White House, then regain super majority in the Congress.

Cris Worth| 11.18.11 @ 10:46AM

Sadly the republic is approaching its end. All great nations and empires have their beginning/rise/peak/decline/extinction. The US is no different. Economy, debt, currency, immorality, substance abuse, lack of enforcement, courts, family, abortion, crime...the list goes on. Putting faith in the Republican Party to save us was a fatal mistake, lesser of two evils but still evil. With charlatans like Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich ready to take power and John Boehner and Mitch McConnell already in place I rest my case.

Ross Kaminsky| 11.18.11 @ 12:23PM

To Clint, those posting as Clint, and those contributing to the idiocy and crassness of the conversation:

Please cut it out.

There are people here who actually care about the issues and are interested in a real discussion.

For the record, Ron Paul will not be -- and should not be -- the Republican nominee. His foreign policy views regarding our interactions with Iran, the broader Muslim world, and Israel are ridiculous and dangerous.

Mistral| 11.18.11 @ 12:15PM

Last year I read that US indebtedness amounted to US$72 trillion. So, which one is it?

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 10:20PM

Where did you go to school? Public debt today is over 15 Trillion and when Bush left office it was over 10 Trillion. But remember Obama's first budget belongs to BushBabyBoy.

Resist We Much!| 11.18.11 @ 12:36PM

According to Laurence J. Kotlikoff, unfunded liabilities are approximately $211 trillion.

http://www.npr.org/2011/08/06/.....t=1&f=1001

Purpleguy| 11.19.11 @ 10:21PM

Yes, and they never take into account that all that payout goes to buy this or that and circulates into the economy... They always report this figures as if the government is just going to hand out the $$$ and get nothing back. Sooo, it's never as bad as the paint the picture, but point made.

Ross Kaminsky| 11.18.11 @ 4:16PM

Make Me, Cup-Cake.

Clint| 11.19.11 @ 3:56PM

Bibi Already Made You, Bibi Butt Boy.

REALITY MAN| 11.18.11 @ 4:32PM

"There are people here who actually care about the issues and are interested in a real discussion."

No, there really aren't.

>50% of the posts on this page are people arguing with or about Jack, Clint, etc.

No one really cares that much about your opinion of Mr. Newt. That's because it's really no better or more informed than ours.

Arguing with Clint and Jack is what brings people to the page.

Frankly, it's the most interesting thing here.

DaveD| 11.18.11 @ 7:29PM

It's in the neighborhood of $72 trillion if you count up the pension and future Medicare/Social Security liabilities. If you look at what is currently owed today, it's a mere $15 trillion.

Oldefarte| 11.18.11 @ 12:44PM

Ross, congratulations and thank you for this extremely excellent editorial of truth! Someway, somehow we will find non-hypocritical conservatives willing to stand firm behind their drawn line in the Bowie-sand in the dirt concerning reducing governmental spending. My feeling is that the Republicans in office now are politically helpless due to the Democrats' control of the Senate and WH. By the grace of the Almighty, that will change on 11/4/12 [if and only so if the American voters majoritively have awakened from their collective stupidivism of 11/4/08]. As you so wisely stated, they apparently have no backbone to JUST SAY NO! So what if there is no agreement and across the board cuts in spending occur [at least we'll get $1.5 billion in governmental spending reductions]. I prefer Dick Armey's/tea party's $10billion suggested ones but we have to elect more conservative Republicans first to get that job done [speaking of Armey, recall his quip about Clinton's sexual activites while president and him/Armey's statement of what would have occured if he/Armey would have been guilty of same as to what his wife would have thereafter done with a gun....priceless!]. The spending cuts will only be truly achievable after 11/4/12, so it becomes all of our responsibilities to go vote in conservative Republicans at that time in order to hopefully give backbone re-inforcements in DC to those now having possible misgivings and bending toward Democrats' positions of welfarism!!!!

Ross Kaminsky| 11.18.11 @ 1:41PM

Thanks for the compliment. Every once in a while I have to write an article that won't get half of my favorite reader-commenters screaming at me for not being "conservative" -- even though I think I've been pretty clear that I'm much more of a libertarian than a conservative!

Anyway, it's nice to go into the weekend getting along with you guys for the first time in a few weeks. (Not that not getting along scares me away from writing what I believe, as I'm sure you already recognize.)

Have a great weekend and a great Thanksgiving.

RGK

Margie| 11.18.11 @ 2:11PM

You aren't a conservative Ross. You're a Lefty Libertarian.
Nobody's fooled.
Conservatives aren't for drug legalization, and don't go around like an idiot actually blaming those of us who want to keep them illegal for the deaths of those taking them, As you did to me in a comment a few months ago.

THAT'S LEFTIST, sweetie.

AND: Conservatives also do NOT join with the Left in trashing excellent conservatives, like Herman Cain and others who don't match up to YOUR likings.

And that's the truth.

Ross Kaminsky| 11.18.11 @ 3:33PM

Margie,

I never said I was a conservative, but to clarify I am on the right wing of libertarians, not the left.

You sure do have a long memory for one particular comment. But you're right: I do blame prohibitionists for a large part of drug-related violence.

It's not leftist; it's pro-liberty -- which I, unlike you, consistently am.

Nancy in NC| 11.18.11 @ 3:55PM

Ross, alcohol prohibition worked out so well, but we never seem to learn for history, uh? Sort of like the Roman empire deal...but it could never happen here, right?

That Rock Candy Mt. certainly must exist in the lefties's mind and I see no evidence of change in our future. What do you think the top will be before the crash? $20T??

Margie| 11.18.11 @ 5:33PM

You're an asshole.

Steve| 11.18.11 @ 11:30PM

Ross,
Margie doesn't understand the meaning of libertarian. If she did she wouldn't say lefty libertarian. A leftist favors government control of the economy and all aspects of our lives and is only one step away from a socialist. A libertarian opposes most government laws and regulations and believes in the free market and can't be a leftist. It is a contradiction.
She is not that smart, in other words stupid.

Margie| 11.19.11 @ 1:41PM

Steve is a lying little twerp and Paul-bot. He's a worshipper of immorality.
Don't Bogart that joint, "Stevie boy!"
He's too damn blind and stupid to recognize the lunacy that is Ron Paul.
He's been bought and sold by the highest bidder into the slavery of immorality and he's loving it.

Steve| 11.19.11 @ 2:20PM

Margie the village Idiot,
I think you are beyond stupidity and into lunacy. I will vote for Paul if he is the nominee, but do not support him because of his foreign policy. But I like his domestic policy.

You are revealing and projecting your misspent youth in Jersey by using the term "bogart that joint." Don't get so upset because you don't know the meaning of libertarianism. Your are way too defensive about your ignorance. One remedy is to stop commenting on things you know nothing about.
What exactly is a worshipper of immorality.

You need serious and intense psychiatric help.

Margie| 11.20.11 @ 6:04PM

Buzz off, Troll.
You'd have to say David Horowitz is just as ignorant as me then, along with plenty of others.
Oh, sorry. You may not have a clue as to who David Horowitz is!
He wrote a piece on the Leftist Lbertarian mindset, ya little turd.
Might want to try reading something for a change before you start your accusing, as usual.
They do, as a party and usually as individuals want drugs legalized.

Steve| 11.21.11 @ 2:23PM

Margie the village idiot,
The only thing you know is how to use foul language, idiot. As ususal you are wrong.Read it again or have someone read it slowly to you.

Steve| 11.21.11 @ 5:41PM

Marge, the village idiot,
I read Horowitz' autobiograph "Radical Son" when you were learning how to spell papist, liar, punk.

Margie| 11.21.11 @ 8:13PM

Complete moron.
First he says he stupid I am for not understanding what Librtarianism is.
The dimwit then says, oh yeah I've read a book by Horowitz."
Big deal. You obviously didn't know that he agrees with me, and that the Libertarian mindset is on par with the Leftist mindset.
Fool.

Steve| 11.21.11 @ 10:10PM

Margie the village idiot,
My you are very touchy about your stupidity, aren't you? Just accept it.
You can't even spell Horowitz much less understand his books.
Stick to you rants, simpleton.

Nancy in NC| 11.18.11 @ 3:47PM

Margie, as usual you're such a kind gentle soul.

And how's that war against drugs working out? Most drugs aren't much worse than alcohol...I'm for making them legal and perhaps thin the herd. It's not up to me (or you) to control the world. Most of us have a full time job of controlling ourselves and our own actions. (For the record, I don't do drugs or drink alcohol, but like a TRUE conservative, you go for it...it's none of my business. I'll let God sort it out...it's over my pay grade.)

Personally, I don't see one excellent conservative running for POTUS. I have supported Michele Bachmann and Herman Cain, but have become disillusioned with both after researching what they do versus what they say.

Newt Gingrich is a waste of skin and as corrupt as the day is long. Ron Paul is great on domestic issues, but his foreign policies are scary and totally unrealistic.

The truly great men and women disdain politics generally. I only know one politician that is clean after thorough investigation and that is Jim DeMint...and of course, he's not running and probably never will.

I'd say we are in a real pickle.

Margie| 11.18.11 @ 5:30PM

You're a nasty little screwball, aren't ya Nance?
Ya like sticking up for lowlives like Ken, I notice, and just love coming to the rescue of Lefty Libertarian punks as well.
Must be a disgusting Paul-bot, oh wait! You're for dope legalitation~ heh, that means you run with the best of 'em!
Hey, more power to ya, asshole.
Oh, and by the way, now that you're done admonishing me for trying to run the world, as long as it's not YOU doing the pontificating~ I think you should go look in the mirror, you flaming hypocrite.
Hey, you and all the rest of the Lefty Libertarians sure don't mind preaching what YOU believe in to the rest of us!
Hey! Since you immoral imbeciles want drugs legalized, how about if we set up a meth lab in a house across the street from you or if I sell Heroin to the high-schoolers in your neighborhood, you self-righteous snot?

idalily| 11.19.11 @ 5:20PM

Most Libertarians I know, myself included, don't want most drugs legalized. Many believe pot should be legal or not by state on 10th Amendment grounds but just don't think we can afford to fight the war on drugs at a federal level when it comes to pot. Other drugs, I think we have to try. Heroin, for example, should not be legal, period. That's murder by needle, IMO. Of course, if we had secure BORDERS, we would help curb the drug traffic simply by preventing more of it from getting in, but that's another argument for another day. Margie, no offense, but is it really necessary to insult libertarians? I am a libertarian. I am NOT a leftist. Neither, I suspect from his writings, is Ross. No offense, meant (honestly) but I think you've got a bee in your bonnet about libertarians. I'm not sure why. As a Christian, why can't you just judge not and turn the other cheek?

Margie| 11.20.11 @ 6:00PM

idalily,

Sorry. i just am so totally fed up with lies and hypocrisy.
Ross actually said not too long ago here that the blood of the drug USERS is on the hands of those who want to keep them legal.

Then he has the gall to say that he's pro-liberty, "unlike me."

What a jerk.
Wouldn't you say?
No?
I say yes.
And Christians are supposed to judge others, as long as we aren't practicing the same sin that we are judging others by.
I am sorry I used foul language.. you're an OK gal, idialily.
"Peace" as they say. :^).

Steve| 11.21.11 @ 10:11PM

Margie the Village Idiot,
You do a lot of explaining why evrybody is wrong and you are right, don't you. See a shrink.

aware| 11.18.11 @ 6:40AM

You will get to about step 3 in your 12 step plan when the world goes up in flames. You are delusional if you think this can be defused through "plans" and career criminal politicians of either wing of the Savior State party. There is no stopping the day of reckoning, it is too late.

It is nothing more than a sophisticated form of denial to keep believing if we can just get the "right" people in place they will "fix" the insanity.

Oldefarte| 11.18.11 @ 1:16PM

No, you're entirely wrong, since it was pure insanity and delusional for the morons/idiots that collectively voted for this HOPE&CHANGE; COMMUNITY ORGANIZER in responsive disgust with the prior administration's ME war conflict longetivity/cost. You pessimistic fools constantly harp about Republicans in congress that cave into Democrats' socialistic governmental spending of taxpayers/ money, but it's simply because of those same Republicans being constantly outnumbered by same Democrats. If Republicans truly controlled congress and the WH, the conservative base of the Republican party would demand and obtain the loyal conservative voting of their elected Republican congressmen on various issues. Its only because of the Democrats' control in DC historically that Republicans have [wrongly] found the career needs to cave into the other party. Give the Republicans a clear majority and [due to the now tea party existence within the country] see how quickly things can turn around. It's the American taxpayer-voters' fault as to why things are as they are, since they elect declared conservatives from their home districts to go to DC and are then shocked that same are corrupted by the likes of Pilosi, Reid, Durbin, Schumer etc who hold all of the political power in DC!!!!!!!!

Oldefarte| 11.18.11 @ 1:19PM

PS: The voters don't constantly monitor their elected representatives once they go to DC, but the tea party movement is/will make sure that that situation never again happens!!!!!

Resist We Much!| 11.18.11 @ 12:54PM

TookTooMuchPurpleMicrodot wrote: "Can you read? 20-22% of GDP is the historical level for Federal spending... and we are at 15.5% ... what don't you understand about math?"

Wrong. In fact, spending as a percentage of GDP over Bush's eight years, 2001 through 2008, averaged 19.9% of GDP, or below the 1960-2000 average of 20.3% of GDP and the level of Federal spending as a percentage of GDP is much higher now than it was even under Bush or the average in the post-war US.

FY2009: $3.518 trillion
GDP: $14.0148 trillion

Federal Spending as a Percentage of GDP in 2009:
25.10204%.

FY2010: $3.456 trillion
GDP: $14.5518 trillion

Federal Spending as a Percentage of GDP in 2010:
23.74964%.

FY2011: $3.601 trillion in spending