The American Spectator : Bailout U.

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Bailout U.

By David N. Bass on 11.17.11 @ 6:08AM

A college degree certainly doesn’t mean what it used to.

It’s a mantra burned into students’ craniums since their elementary-school days: if you want to make something of your life, go to college. And if you really want to make something of your life, make it an Ivy League school.

Given recent developments in higher education specifically, and the economy generally, those suggestions sound like economists’ hyped predictions before the demise of the dot-com and housing bubbles. In both instances, conventional wisdom held that investing in tech stocks or real estate would be a ticket to easy street.

Peddlers of higher education make similar claims today about the value of a university degree. As with tech stocks and real estate prior to their respective busts, a measure of justification exists for that optimism. Holders of bachelor’s college degrees do earn more over a lifetime than their non-college educated counterparts, though the exact figure is disputed.

But that reality is changing fast. As a practical economic necessity, a postsecondary education isn’t what it used to be. Even more, as the federal government continues to intervene through student-aide subsidies, grants, and guaranteed student loans, higher education is heading for a bust after booming for decades.

A stark illustration: the hordes of young adults in the Occupy movement who accepted the shackles of student-loan debt in exchange for worthless humanities degrees. Total student-loan debt in the United States now stands at $1 trillion, surpassing credit-card debt, and twentysomethings hold much of it.

Not a rosy picture. An analysis from the United Kingdom in 2008 found that female graduates could expect to spend 16 years paying off their student loans, and men 11 years. Precious few college students pay as they go. Student loans are the norm.

The problem, as with investors in tech stocks and real estate, is that students are paying an over-valued price for an under-valued product. They’re going deeply into debt to do so, and most of the time that’s made possible by Uncle Sam.

There are several other trends that add to higher education’s difficulties. One is the high number of college graduates. Generation Y is the most college-educated cohort in American history. Because the market is flooded with holders of bachelor’s degrees, the value of those degrees is diluted.

To make matters worse, graduates with four-year degrees frequently re-enter college and pursue an advanced degree in response to job-market frustrations. It’s possible that a master’s degree could soon become the bachelor’s degree of past years — the bare minimum necessary to distinguish an applicant for a job.

Another problem is the rapid-fire increase in the cost of a higher education. According to the College Board, during the noughties tuition and fees at public four-year colleges and universities jumped an average of 5.6 percent per year beyond the rate of inflation. Those costs have surged almost 130 percent over the last two decades.

Still another difficulty is the objective value of a college degree. Students aren’t learning much, and employers know it. Universities want to keep their paying customers (colloquially known as students), so grade inflation has increased. Today, a high GPA doesn’t mean what it once did. (Yes, it’s a cold reality: “Higher education is a business that does not necessarily have [students’] best interests at heart,” writes Thomas Benton in The Chronicle of Higher Education.)

As the Associated Press reported in January, a study of over 2,000 undergraduates “found 45 percent of students show no significant improvement in the key measures of critical thinking, complex reasoning and writing by the end of their sophomore years.” Those skills — reasoning and writing — are critical to just about any career.

These factors suggest that the economic cost of a degree is swiftly outpacing its economic benefit in the real world. Even so, the federal government continues to bolster the industry with subsidies. The most recent example is President Obama’s initiative to put taxpayers on the hook for students’ college debt. It’s akin to governmental policies that paved the way for homeowners to secure mortgages they couldn’t afford to begin with.

Obama’s plan creates yet another moral hazard. If students know that part of their student loans will be forgiven, there is less incentive to keep costs down. Once more, it transfers obligation from those who act irresponsibly to those who act responsibly.

It remains to be seen how the higher-education catastrophe will play out, but one development is certain. If the government continues to bail out students who graduate with all but worthless degrees, a bust is coming.

About the Author

David N. Bass is a journalist who writes from the Old North State. Follow him on Twitter.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (140) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Darin| 11.17.11 @ 6:54AM

It would be interesting to see a comparison of graduates with "real" degrees like science and engineering versus those with "pseudo" degrees like various "studies" programs. An employer is probably more likely to hire someone with an engineering or chemistry degree (even for work not in the field) versus someone with a humanities degree simply because engineering and chemistry degrees require actual work to obtain.

Herb| 11.17.11 @ 7:08AM

This silly taxpayer thought that student loans were granted mainly for degree programs in the sciences, computer engineering, pre-med, or other fields likely to yield a return to society in the form of a productive, contributing citizen.

I always pictured a student loan officer saying to an applicant, "You want a loan to pursue a degree in Marxist lesbian minority studies? We don't think so!"

Again, silly me.

Wayne| 11.17.11 @ 8:59AM

Yet when I came out of the Army in 1972 with a math degree I went to the state of Illinois employment office and I was told by the employment office that I shouldn't have majored in math. At that point I learned never to seek help from a government agency.

DeWanda Jones| 11.17.11 @ 8:57AM

I've done quite well with my diversity studies degree.

Skippy| 11.17.11 @ 1:06PM

And when the Big Govt. house of cards collapses, taking with it all the motive and $$ for anyone to care about diversity, we hope you know how to scrub floors.

Jacob R| 11.18.11 @ 1:23PM

Why do most math and science majors come off like idiots writing essays then?

Fred C. Dobbs| 11.20.11 @ 8:04AM

Who says they do? You? The all knowing "Jacob R." if that's really your name.

RCK| 11.20.11 @ 8:05AM

And why, Jacob, would a supposedly educated person reply with a flip, snarky generalization about math and science majors instead of a more mature, thoughtful and articulate response that might actually be worth reading. David Bass's thoughts and arguments on the state of American higher education are well taken.

jd| 11.17.11 @ 9:13AM

My brother -- the brainiac in the family -- has worked as a highly specialized geotechnical engineer and manages a department of 50 or so engineers and he has bemoaned for years the fact that he cannot find the advanced technical engineers he needs in the U.S. Most, if not all, of the engineers in his department come from foreign countries like India, China, etc. There is something to be said about the fact that math and science in this country is looked down on as being "nerdy". Too many schoolage kids concentrate too much on sports or attain fluff degrees in history, sociology, or womens studies, instead of earning the hard degrees needed to attain real jobs. I know with my own kids, I have pushed the math and sciences over all else. They not only take the honors classes and get 4.0's BUT still enjoy playing sports, realistically knowing that they won't be earning millions as pro basketball players. Tell that to a majority of parents who think their kids will be pro athletes and push them solely in that regard.

JmsA| 11.17.11 @ 11:29AM

I remember during a Calculus class my freshman year in college, the professor joking that he and I were the only ones in the class who who did not speak Farsi or Arabic.

Banner| 11.18.11 @ 12:49AM

During the ACC home football contest two weeks ago (a home game) I was in the library. Overall the library was more quiet than usual. But what was most striking was the makeup of those occupying the spaces, study tables, etc. Think that is was caucasians? Think again. I'd say 70% occupancy Asian. 15% Indian. The rest miscellaneous.

Priorities.

Ned| 11.18.11 @ 12:31PM

Yeah, and the prof's native language was Chinese.

PolishKnight| 11.18.11 @ 9:09AM

In many of those countries, the schools and degrees can be obtained through bribery (cheap at western standards: $500 for a bachelors degree from a 6 month "university" at someone's house.)

There are tons of unemployed European-American engineers but (often) European-American executives are looking to fill a "diversity" quota. In some cases, I've laughed as some of these executives were themselves laid off in leau of a non-European American. Hilarious. Good luck with those house payments for a million dollar 4 bedroom suburban place and gasoline for the SUV.

sane person| 11.17.11 @ 2:17PM

Darin,

It is clear that most degrees given out are beyond worthless and yet have cost the "educated" ones a ton of taxpayer money.

I attended MIT for my BS, three MS, and PhD, all in electrical engineering and it cost me nothing. There are numerous fellowships and grants available in science and engineering for qualified students. Moreover, after graduating I had made my first $1M before 30 and many more since.

In short, the type of degree does matter, not only for the future income potential of the student, but also in terms of the fellowship and grant money that is available.

-Sane person

A Degree of BS| 11.17.11 @ 5:40PM

So, if you graduated at 22 and spent five years getting the PhD (as is typical), then you made $1 million in your first three years out of school?

Wow, that's incredible!

Occam's Tool| 11.18.11 @ 1:15AM

I had made my 1st million as a physician by age 35. My 1st full year out of residency I made $384 K Gross. But I had overhead. My overhead now is about $8K yearly and I make $350 K/yr. With a proper degree and work ethic, one can do quite well with minimal risk.

Work for a year in Texas without going to school, then apply to med school after doing your pre-med. Your tuition cost will be very low. The cost of 4 years of instate Texas med school tuition is the same as 1 year of tuition anywhere in the Midwest for Med School. Texas has lots of docs, and their malpractice costs are the lowest in the Country.

But that means studying and working.

Stan Redmond| 11.22.11 @ 9:43PM

WHOO HOO. I'm still working on my first million. From what I hear the first is the hardest. Good work and congratulations!!!

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 11.17.11 @ 7:08AM

The article displays once again that the Occupy protesters are in the wrong place. It isn't the banks or Wall Street holding them back. It's their own stupidity and overpriced colleges.

They should be occupying college campuses and their own front lawns. If they have one.

Doctor_X| 11.17.11 @ 7:21AM

Today at 3pm college students are set to walk out of class to protest the cost of higher education. Where I go to grad school under-grads pay a little over $25,000 a year NOT counting room and board. that $100,000 for a B.A/B.S degree!
I went to State school 17 years ago for about $7,500 a year paid as i went with only part time work.

Wayne| 11.17.11 @ 9:03AM

My first year, 1966, cost me $1000 total, room, board, tuition and book rental. We did not have the luxury of taking a year off to work, else we would get drafted and loans and scholarships were nearly impossible.
When loans and scholarships became easy to get, students quit working and schools just raised tuitions.

Ned| 11.18.11 @ 12:37PM

My first year of college was also '66 - and I must say, NOT getting shot at in teh mystic orient was a pretty good incentive to study. Tuition that first quarter at Oregon State was $66... graduate tuition four years later was $215. I paid for all six years of a B.S. and an M.A. with summer jobs. My son just graduated from UDub - and at an annual cost of $18,000 (living on campus) it would have been impossible for him to pay for his own school was we did.

The Bruce| 11.17.11 @ 1:20PM

You just gotta love the little skulls full of mush: They enter into an agreement with the university, knowing up front what a year of college will cost, then whine about the cost after they (willingly) start attending.

JmsA| 11.17.11 @ 11:31AM

Exactly, O' Stalin, but don't forget the leftist politicians.

Doctor_X| 11.17.11 @ 7:18AM

It is about time someone spoke the true about higher education. The B.A./B.S. is the new high school diploma. Most of the jobs I’ve been looking at either require or prefer a Master’s degree. The master’s degree was once “the consolation prize” for people who didn’t finish their Ph.D. program, now they are standalone degrees.
I’ve been looking for jobs at places like G.E, IBM, SAS, and Google. They now have what they call entry level jobs that require a Ph.D. in Computer Science, Engineering, Information systems, and Material sciences.
I’ll have my D.Sc. (Doctor of Science) in about 12 months and with luck a Ph.D. 4-6 months after that.
It is insane the amount of education people “need”. I’ll have spent almost ½ of my life in school!
By the way I work full time in IT while am I working on the IS doctorates. At least I have a chance of a high paying job when I am done. My cousin has spent 7 years on her Ph.D. in Poly-Sci for a $50,000 a year teaching job. A B.S in math and a teaching certificate would have given her the same income without the cost of a master’s or Ph.D.
Let’s start making some smart economic choices when it comes to education!

Ivory Tower Lampooner| 11.17.11 @ 12:14PM

Doctor X., you've got the best comment so far as I scroll down this

The real problem is that those over 45 have allowed this myth of higher education to go unthrottled and unchallenged.

98.5% of jobs do not require a Ph.D.

This is employers lazy way of saying they decline to invest the time to examine real work world experiences in the candidates' lives.

Once more, there is a lot of blame to go around. Let's not just dump the blame at the feet of the under 30 crowd with the massive student loan debt.

If you live near a university or college (and if you are an alum of a school somewhere), when's the last time you chimed in to say, "Enough! Yo, College President! Stop building your fiefdom! Stick with the core mission and jettison all the flaky academia land expensive arificialities."

Most jobs don't require a Master's Degree either.

There is no substitute for work. Demonstrated work assignments over years, increasing responsibilities, increasing challenges -- on a person's work record.

That should be the measuring stick - in almost every field.

All those years wasted in libraries, seminars, fake projects, fawning over the professor so as to get a good grade or earn that Ph.D. (Yes, fawning, kissing up and kneeling is how the degree is attained; it ain't on merit) don't create an employee worth having.

Kenny| 11.17.11 @ 7:20AM

On the college bust, you might want to check
http://inflation.us/videos.html

Richard Baker| 11.17.11 @ 7:24AM

I was a High School math/science teacher in Florida. What struck me generally at the time was the lack of intellectual curiosity, no core of basic knowledge, and the idea that I was supposed to give in to their childish whinings about hard work and industry. An example, I had two girls cheating during a Science test. After warning them to stop it (I had made the same anouncement initially) they continued to signal and cheat. I walked over with my red pen, wrote F on each paper, and returned to my gradebook and entered in the grade. They were shocked because they didn't think I meant it. I was supposed to "give them a chance." I did and they received an F. This lack of integrity and knowledge along with a sense of entitlement to a good grade afflicts these college graduates and starts in our crappy public schools. The whole business is nothing more than a giant jobs program for teachers at all too many levels. How many of you reading this had TAs or grad assistants teach many of your undergrad courses when you expected the Professor to do so?

Ivory Tower Lampooner| 11.17.11 @ 12:22PM

Thanks, Richard Baker. Would that you'd given more 'F's!'

Let's not forget the home. Show me a home where books are esteemed (quality books lying about everywhere, on shelves, on desks, on nightstands), the TV is turned off (or better - not even present!), the family attends church regularly, the family eats dinner together, PC use is tightly monitored - tightly monitored by BOTH parents, and I will show you a home that is cultivating intellectual curiosity.

The above does not describe most homes in the USA.

Parents? Both? No. They are divorced now.

Mr. Baker, you wrote, "The whole business is nothing more than a giant jobs program for teachers at all too many levels."

Yes, this is completely true.

JG| 11.20.11 @ 12:00PM

Why does the family have to attend church regularly? Does the family really have to eat dinner together every night? Only a family with BOTH parents is a family cultivating intellectual curiosity?

Nay. In fact, your claim is ridiculous. I started my educational journey pretty much when I moved from NJ to SC and my father died a year later. So, apparently, I do not have an environment for cultivating intellectual curiosity pretty much right off the bat, according to you.

My mother enforced church attendance, but my brother and I found a route out: being generally disrespectful during services or playing games on hand-held systems. Similar to the OWS, it soon could not be ignored, and we were finally allowed to have a few more hours on Sunday.. to hit the books.

Of course, hit the books we did not. Instead, we focused on playing games. The TV was present, but we more or less focused on playing simple games, such as the classics: Pong, Centipede, and Q-Bert.

Did that fry our brains? Maybe, but it didn't make us stupid. No, in fact, that's the type of things we are still interested in, but in a different way. We enjoy playing games, but now we also want to make a few ourselves. Is that a lost pursuit of intellectual curiosity? I doubt it. He already graduated college (Computer Science) and I'm about to finish my studies next May (also Computer Science).

Now, I will agree that there are many instances of situations where the home is not conducive to the education of the "young ones". Your assessment of why is where we have differences.

In fact, the monitoring of the family computer is one of the reasons why I became quite interested in technology in the first place: why can't I do something, and how can I get around it to do the thing I wanted to do do?

In fact, the interests held by my brother and I couldn't be satiated by dinner-time conversation, because we wanted to circumvent how things were done. How can one bring that up around the dinner table when the person attempting to side-step the actions of the "protector" is in the same room? There cannot be such discussion, as the protector learns the ways of the deviant, which should not be through direct communication. This would stifle competition, and thus learning, on both sides.

There it is: intellectual curiosity, minus the two or three bits required in your version of a educationally-nurturing home.

Dennis| 11.21.11 @ 1:12PM

I'm right at the beginning of the boomer generation and you described my childhood. Limited TV. Learned to read using the dreaded phonics method. By fourth grade, read at a 12th grade level. Two-parent family, and education was not just encouraged, it was demanded. And we ate dinner together every night. Period.

Ned| 11.18.11 @ 12:42PM

I used to help grade the ex-wife's tests that she gave. ON one occasion I said, "I'll bet I can tel you who sat next to who in your test..." and then did so accurately, based on the identical wrong (often weird) answers that they gave to questions they didn't understand. With the ex's permission, I stapled the papers into groups of four and averaged their grades, minus a full grade for the cheating. That meant there were LOTS of "F"s...

Darin| 11.17.11 @ 7:44AM

Interesting how the same folks who make such an outcry about CEO wages are silent about college president wages. Then again, CEOs tend to have conservative values (or the company doesn't last long) while colleges tend to be liberal and rely on taxpayers and students for income.

Mike Hawk| 11.17.11 @ 8:23AM

Too many CEOs are not conservatives. Too many are crony capitalists and Liberals. Buffet and Immelt are cases in point. Former Goldman Sucks ..er.. Sachs CEO John Corzine was not either.

Skippy| 11.17.11 @ 1:19PM

And, true to form, Corzine's fraudulent company just went belly-up.

martin j smith| 11.17.11 @ 8:00AM

I will say this if you are a parent of college age or pre-college age kids and you do not like the nature of education k-thru PHD you would be in areal quandry. It amounts to this: Is it worth it for my kids to have what amounts to political indoctrination as Education for the exorbitant price being chanrged. Now if you are a Socialist and have the money--no problemo. But, otherwise-problemo. You want the very best for your kids but once they are gone they are out of your hands. However the one thing I would say is this: If you have a good relationship with your kids you can still be a positive influence and be a counter balance to the indoctrination they get. The trick is not to be too pushy about it. I think if you encourage "independent" thinking and intellectual honesty that would be excellent indeed.

richard ryan| 11.17.11 @ 9:06AM

John Stossel did a report on the benefits of "higher" education a few years ago. Was there a return on the investment? Group A paid for a 4 year degree, and went on to work for 40 yrs. Group B invested the money after graduating high school, took a job in a skilled trade. Group B was better off financially given conservative estimates for investment returns and income increases after obtaining a degree. At some point, parents and high school graduates are going to realize this. ROTC and GI Bill are also parts of the equation that people seem to ignore. A generation ago, most men were in the "service" for a few years after high school. Why don't the OWS folks give that some consideration? Oh, that's right. Liberals hate the military.

Not in this man's Army| 11.17.11 @ 12:31PM

While I agree that there ought to be a national sentiment to include military years as part of a good, strong man's upbringing, please, let's not send OWS kids (or their fellow travellers) into the military.

Never.

Alas, the military is not supposed to be a finishing school.

The military needs newly arrived 'teammates' immediately capable of fighting and winning America's wars.

The truth is the military gets much of the dregs of our society already. They are unfit, often very mentally slow. Worst, they are severe discipline problems. It is the rarest of rare exceptions to try to turn around a life in just four short years (during a soldier's first enlistment).

Trying to undo the filth, horrible attitudes, and garbage inculcated in the first 18, 19 years of growing up is NOT what our military is designed or truly capable of doing.

Poor recruits require too much time, too many resources. They are not worth it; they imperil the mission.

SeymourGlass| 11.17.11 @ 1:21PM

Do you have any evidence to back up your claims of the military getting "much of the dregs of our society..." specifically, a comparison between those of the appropriate age group who enlist, and those who do not enlist.

Or are you just speculating?

NitmA| 11.17.11 @ 1:42PM

Yes. When my 1SG looked over at me late one night (all our days were long and our nights were late) and said, "You know, sir, we're parenting them. We're their parents. They are our kids."

My 1SG actually enlisted the aid of his wife, though they had three kids of their own, to try to help in the parenting of many. Simultaneously she was doing this for many 'needy' spouses (wives) who were between the ages of 19 to about 30.

In the Army today you spend, give or take, about 80% of your time as a battalion and below leader on 20% of your soldiers. You wind up unwillingly devoting this time to them due to their laundry lists of problems, ills, shortcomings, failures, mental incapabilities, outright criminal behavior.

Mike 3/505| 11.17.11 @ 4:11PM

Agree. However as a Company, Battalion and Brigade Commander, it was worth the investment...especially for those who would only serve one term of enlistment. My view was that it put another military friendly civilian on the street after a positive military enlistment.

Regards,

Mike

Bydand76| 11.17.11 @ 5:36PM

I agree and will add only this.

Those who thrive within the military culture do so because they apply themselves on a regular basis and because they want to be there.

I have had Joes who could not make a first formation if their life depended on it but you got them into the field and they were stone cold killers.

Its all about finding the right motivation.

Part of being a leader is finding that motivation.

I would say that 90% of the time I succeed in doing this. but that other 10% was due to the soldier simply not caring about a effin thing.

That 10% left my Platoon hating the Army!

2- 6 out!

Bill A | 11.17.11 @ 8:05AM

The purpose of education is to improve one's mind. The increased ability to think critically should lead to a more productive life. Apparently courses in critical thought, economics and statistics do not enter into a serious cost effective analysis of too many young adults prospective education. Who should pay if you do not do your homework?

djtoland| 11.17.11 @ 8:21AM

The government has massively intervened in the markets for housing, medical care, and higher education. And the cost in all 3 of these areas have gone up much faster than the rate of inflation - in the housing case this would be in the early 2000's.
In the more expensive universities, as much as 70% of students take out student loans. Now if the government would stop the student loan guarantees, the university would lose 70% of its student body, or it would be forced to lower prices - which do you think would happen?

Anthony| 11.17.11 @ 8:22AM

The college and university scam is under the protection of the leftist Ds in Congress because they are the breeding grounds and indoctrination centers for the American left.
Teaching Marxist agitprop 6 hours a week is a tough job that demands a six figure salary and a teaching assistant!
And if your child runs afoul of the tenents of leftism, he/she will suffer the fate of the Duke Lacrosse team.

Dick Nome| 11.17.11 @ 8:40AM

At work we have many with BS degrees and for the most part that is exactly what they are. They can't write a coherent sentence and are clueless regarding everyday stuff. They have no sense of economics and gummint function is beyond their ken. Yet they bitch about taxes and vote Democrat. It is frightening. Older employees with no college have more sense, more knowledge and far more skills than these products of 'higher edjuhmacashun'. Too much high and too little education in some cases.

Dmac| 11.17.11 @ 8:46AM

"Once more, it transfers obligation from those who act irresponsibly to those who act responsibly."

Not so fast Mr. Bass. Earlier in your column you also stated "It's a mantra burned into students' craniums since their elementary-school days: if you want to make something of your life, go to college. And if you really want to make something of your life, make it an Ivy League school."

This IS what we teach our children, go to college, and in return for it what do they get, and who do they get it from?
What they get is a job market that is controlled by their parents generation, a generation that seems to have no problem shipping jobs overseas for profit. But to make matters worse imports a degreed work force from India and China and pays those degreed individual less than it would pay a degreed American.
Also, just who does control the cost of that education? Its not the studetns, again it is their parent generation that controls the public universities and the state legislatures that approve of all the crap these universities are pulling.
Lastly, who controls the federal government? Its certainly not the students. The federal government has been in bed with the education beauracracies for 30 years now.
So don't blame the kids for trying to do what they have been taught to do since day one. Blame their parents for not doing something about the corruption in our system that allows public universities to screw our children and us!

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 11.17.11 @ 9:11AM

What a ridiculous comment .

You claim that because someone was told a college degree is good that somehow they are too stupid to figure out that it may not be good for them personally.

No, they are an entitled generation who were too lazy to pay their own way or seek other means of an education.

No one owes them anything except maybe some sympathy. And that's only if you're stupid enough to actually feel sorry for someone.

Dmac| 11.17.11 @ 10:07AM

Actually it's your comment that is ridiculous. We are talking about 17 yr olds thinking about their future. Of course they want to go to college, it's been drilled in their heads since kindergarten. "too stupid to figure out that it may not be good for them", again they are kids and still somewhat naive. Look at nealt every job available and you will see the qualifications required include a degree. What the hell do you expect them to do? Without a college degree your resume will just be tossed in file 13.
Does anyone owe them anything, yes , but not in the sense you are implying. They are owed the right to"the pursuit of happiness". In pursuing their happiness our generation has screwed them. We are the generation that controls , actually controls nothing, because we are too politically lazy to demand change from our corrupt politicians, and that inclides the clowns that are appointed in most cases as regents to the public universities.
Bill, why not stand up and demand some change from ourselves, from our politicians and from corporate America, instead of blaming the kids that have been told their since they were in kindergarten to get a college education. We are leaving nothing to future genrations of this country except debt. The next generation of Americans deserves one hell of lot better than what our generation is leaving them.

The Big E| 11.17.11 @ 10:17AM

You know, instead of relying on someone else to give you a job, you could go out and create your own.

If more people did that instead of counting on a degree to set them up for life our economic woes would quickly disappear.

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 11.17.11 @ 10:38AM

DMAC: Your comment implies that people do not have reason, even at 17. In fact, very little is drilled into their hands as evidenced by falling test scores around the country.

To believe you one would have to believe that they learned very little of what they were taught, and only remembered the mantra "I must go to college."

If you're right then there is no free will amongst the youth and they got what they deserved for being lemmings.

Even if you were to be believed it's not up to "the rest of us" to provide them anything.

They are a generation of slackers taught by the public schools to be slackers.

Based on your statement all society would have to be responsible for all bad decisions made by individuals.

That's ridiculous.

Dmac| 11.17.11 @ 11:30AM

Bill,
You are correct, I am implying that 17 year olds have very little reasoning skills. I think the same can probably be said of you or I at that age.
You mention free will, Bill, when we were young (I'm assuming you are middle aged) we didn't have to contend with political correctness. We were allowed free thought. Todays youth are not.

"they are a generation of slackers", no sir, not my kids. They've worked their asses off all through school. Speak for your kids and kids you know. I know many of my kids friends and not a damn one of the ones I know are slackers. They have all had jobs while they went to school and they all have studied hard to make good grades. You want to put everyone in the same basket and you are wrong to do it.
"taught by the public schools to be slackers", well just who the hell controls the public schools Bill, it's not the kids. They get the public school you and I give them, so that one is on us, not the kids.
Bill, your argument is just hot air and not thought out at all. It is reactionary thought.
Are their slackers in the OWS movement, I'm sure there are. Are there people in the OWS movement with legitimate gripes? I'm sure there are. Is it wrong for our government to loan money to banks for 0.01%, yet charge students 4.9% or more. I think it is. We want these kids to get an education so they can be produtive and pay taxes. Lets give them just a bit of a break. I'm not saying pay their loans or bail them out. Why can't we lower the interest amount, or figure some other way to help. But we can make sure it doesn't happen to the next group that enters college.
Is the cost of a 4 year degree more expensive than it should be, damn right it is. We as the adults need to get it explained to our elected officials that we want an end to the beauracracies that run the public universities.

Ivory Tower Lampooner| 11.17.11 @ 12:42PM

Dmac, I am with you. I see through and through sound thinking in your three commentaries. Thank you.

Too many old codgers here with rose tinted glasses unwilling and now no longer capable of recalling their teens and 20's.

They all somehow think they'd have the chutzpah to approach the Dean or President of WuPuUniverisity when still a sophmore and say, "Prez., you're charging me too much tuition! Stop it! I've organized 900 students and we're moving into your office for a sit in until tuition is lowered 40%!"

In their fanciful thinking, they believe this is what college sophomores or even seniors are capable of pulling off.

Your final line above: Where have the ADULTS been for the last 30 years as the universities and colleges of the nation have gleefully gone on their binges?

How many of the posters here get shoulder deep in the truly taxing (mind and body) efforts to elect responsible, conservative, principled, fiscally smart, America-loving adults in their communities to their city and county school boards?

How many look at the ballot on election days and say, "Well, I'll just have to sit that item on the ballot out. I don't have a clue who any of these school board candidates are."

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 11.17.11 @ 1:26PM

DMAC: If you are correct, and you're not, then the same line of reasoning would be correct in the housing market. People believed in it, people bought into it, and now many are underwater because the purchasers made a bad decision.

It's not my fault and they shouldn't be bailed out and perhaps the college students will learn a valuable lesson.

By the way, I worked two jobs to pay my way through school and when I graduated I had more than enough money to put down on a house. That's when interest rates were 9% in the 70's. When I graduated the job market was about the same as it is now but I didn't go around proclaiming, hey , I got a college degree and it didn't work. No, I kept trying and didn't complain and eventually became very successful.

There's no easy ride and to state that because someone was foolish that justifies further bad behavior is simply ridiculous. The current whining won't help them and makes them look like what they are-fools.

Dmac| 11.17.11 @ 4:44PM

Bill, you said, "People believed in it, people bought into it, and now many are underwater because the purchasers made a bad decision." Again these are the same people with little in the way of reasoning skills. Who sold them this bill of goods, the government did. Who is selling our kids a different bill of goods by loaning 10, 20, 30, or even 200K to kids getting a fricken degree in literature. That same government that is making a profit off of those loans. Pull your head of out of whatever hole it is in and use a bit of logic. No, it may not be YOUR fault that other people make poor decisions, but it is your fault and mine that we have allowed such a crappy corrupt government to be in power on our watch.
You also say, "By the way, I worked two jobs to pay my way through school and when I graduated I had more than enough money to put down on a house. That's when interest rates were 9% in the 70's. When I graduated the job market was about the same as it is now but I didn't go around proclaiming, hey , I got a college degree and it didn't work. No, I kept trying and didn't complain and eventually became very successful." That statement right there explains just how far out of touch with reality you are. In the 70's we manufactured goods, that meant high paying skills jobs, manager positions and such. Nothing is the same in todays America. We don't live in 1970 anymore Bill. The biggest employer in 1970 was who, IBM, Exxon, now its fricken Wal-Mart.
Point is Bill, some of want to help our kids and some of us just want to ignore their needs. Which one are you? Remeber, the key word is help, not give.

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 11.18.11 @ 7:12AM

If they are too dumb to figure it out for themselves it won't matter what anyone tells them.

Occam's Tool| 11.19.11 @ 6:11PM

When I was 14, I decided to be an MD. When I was 17, I had won $30,000 plus in academic scholarships (at a time when a full tuition scholarship to TCU was worth $12,000. It is now worth $112,000). When I was 21, I had been accepted to 2 US Medical Schools, When I was 25, I was an MD.

It is possible for 14 year olds to think. I did.

fmm| 11.17.11 @ 9:59AM

Critical thinking is obviously not one of your strong suits as you did not understand any of the points made in this article or the many good comments. Instead of blaming others generally, and not taking responsibility for your own actions, try to figure out what philosophy caused these problems and then act accordingly; for example, in the way you vote.

The Big E| 11.17.11 @ 10:11AM

Dmac:

"Also, just who does control the cost of that education? Its not the studetns, again it is their parent generation"

This is one of the most irrational statements I've seen posted on this site in a very long time.

If a parent determines the cost of their child's education, then why the hell do they over charge themselves? Even if they're not paying for the kids' education, it doesn't make sense, because why would they want to force their children to move back home because they can't afford to pay back their student loans?

The only conceivable way what you wrote can make any sense whatsoever is if:
a. Everybody within the same generation has the same point of view and are work together to achieve goals desired by all within their generation, and
b. Every parents' goal is to financially screw their own children.

Do you really think that's the way world works?

Dmac| 11.17.11 @ 10:35AM

Big E,
We screw our own children by being politiclly lazy and electing politicians that are corrupt. We do this because we feel we have no choice since we usually only have candidates from the two major parties, both of which continually fail to produce woth while candidates. If we only had one tenth of the gumption our forefathers (Washington, Franklin, Adams, Jefferson and others) had we would put an end to the political monopoly the democratic and republican parties had.
Why is it so many posters here expect 17 and 18 year olds to have the lifetime of knowledge we older folks have. When you were 17 or 18, did you understand politics, or how bearacracies worked? Some of you are expecting an awful lot of common sense and knowledge from todays kids, knowledge that you or I didn't posses when we were their age either.
Basically what I'm saying is, try to remeber how naive you were when you were 17 or 18. These kids don't know what we know, that the woreld is full of a lot bull shitters and liars. They tend to still believe what adults tell them, and we adults have been telling them to go to college.

The Big E| 11.17.11 @ 11:33AM

1. "We screw our own children by being politiclly lazy and electing politicians that are corrupt."

Speak for yourself, bud. I don't only vote, I've also run for office (unsuccessfully).

2. "If we only had one tenth of the gumption our forefathers (Washington, Franklin, Adams, Jefferson and others) had we would put an end to the political monopoly the democratic and republican parties had."

If you had one tenth of their gumption you wouldn't be whining about how folks with four year degrees can't find a job when they could be out creating jobs for themselves. Our forefathers built a nation out of a wilderness, the current generation doesn't even have the industriousness to mow lawns for a living.

3. "When you were 17 or 18, did you understand politics, or how bearacracies worked?"

No, but I DID understand that it MY job to make my way in the world, not somebody else's. I DID understand that if I wanted to be a success in life I had to EARN that success, and I DID understand that it was immoral for me to expect other people to provide things for me which I had not earned myself.

And by the way, I'm not knocking education. I have a BS and a JD. I AM knocking laziness, which I DID understand was a sin, but which the current generation seems to view as a MAJOR GOAL IN LIFE.

4. "Some of you are expecting an awful lot of common sense and knowledge from todays kids, knowledge that you or I didn't posses when we were their age either."

Yeah, I'm expecting 17 and 18 year old's to have enough common sense to get in out of the rain. Here's a clue, those founding fathers you cited above lived in a world where 17 and 18 year olds lacking common sense didn't live long enough to be 21 year olds. I'm expecting no more from today's generation than was expected of mine, and probably a hell of a lot less than was expected of my father's and grandfather's. You, on the other hand, seem to expect nothing of them beyond learning how to beg other people for the things they should be out earning themselves.

5. "Basically what I'm saying is, try to remeber how naive you were when you were 17 or 18. "

If you're referring to me being naive enough to know that if I didn't work I wouldn't have anything, then I plead guilty.

6. "These kids don't know what we know, that the woreld is full of a lot bull shitters and liars."

If they haven't figured that out by the time they're 17 years old then they're too stupid to do anything other than flip burgers anyway, and that's assuming they have the brains to figure out which end of the spatula to hold. They sure as hell don't need a degree - ANY degree - which might then land them in a position of any actual responsibility.

cc| 11.17.11 @ 12:49PM

Big E. Well, now every reader here knows why you ran for office and lost.

I surely hope you never win. Ain't much in that cranium of yours thats useful.

Or, at least, you surely possess very poor reading skills. Dmac's thinking is solid. He was kind to reply to you.

Before you reply, please sit down and breathe deeply for about 15 minutes. No, please, make it 25.

The Big E| 11.17.11 @ 2:35PM

So let's see, I respond point by point to Dmac's post, rebutting the merits of his argument, and your response to me ignores the merits of everything I wrote and resorts solely and exclusively to insults.

And yet MINE is the empty cranium?

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 11.17.11 @ 1:28PM

To: Big E: You are correct and stated it better than I.

Our society is filled with stupid fools who feel complaining and whining leads to success. It never has and it never will.

Dmac| 11.17.11 @ 5:00PM

1. You ran and lost because you couldn't relate to life as it is today.
2. They didn't have government regulations, the IRS, the EPA, the Sierra Club, PETA or any of that other crap to deal with. Ever wondered how most laws regarding pollution are introduced and funded. By the large existing oil and chemical companies. It's their way of making it too expensive for any newcomer to jump in.
3.Most of these kids understand it is up to them to make it own their own. They just want an answer as to why their government, junior high, high school and corporate America lied to them about their opportunities if they went to college.
4. They didn't live long mainly to disease. As for what you expect of others look at your own statement, "probably less thanmy father or grandfathers". So what you are really saying is you expect more than was expected of you. Fact Bill, the current genration of Americans will be the first one in over 235 years to have less opportunity than the generation before them.
5. You reply is completely out of context of the statement I made. These kids are't talking about not having anything. They are talking about not having a job so they can afford to get anything. In you day and mine if you couldn't find a job in 8 hours, you weren't looking very hard. Times have changed.
6. You state, "If they haven't figured that out by the time they're 17 years old then they're too stupid to do anything other than flip burgers anyway, and that's assuming they have the brains to figure out which end of the spatula to hold. They sure as hell don't need a degree - ANY degree - which might then land them in a position of any actual responsibility." All that statement shows is your ignorance and total lack of tolerance for your fellow American. Life is a hell of a lot harder now than it was in the 60's, through the 80's.
So Bill, if you lose you job tomorrow, and the Wall Street gang steal your 401K, just what is your plan? When they come for you, who will be there to help you since you weren't there when they came for them? Figure it out Bill, between the politicians, the bankers, and the Wall Street elite America is being sold out. You and I had our fun in the sun, but todays kids are getting screwed over big time and they know it!

Ivory Tower Lampooner| 11.18.11 @ 1:17AM

Dmac, superb.

Yeah, I have to wonder. All of us are on within a cat's whisker of having the Washington, D.C. thugs plunder what we have as retirement savings.

I hope Mr. Hussein O'Stalin grasps this.

The government will come after our IRAs, 401Ks and nullify US treasury bonds (or just pay out far, far less when they are cashed)

Dmac, you have expressed it, I will underscore it: The life set of circumstances the 10 - 30 age crowd must now embrace because of our failures to face down Congress, former presidents, governors, mayors, and, yes, college presidents is truly gloomy.

It is the worst set of circumstance seen since men had no jobs in the Great Depression.

Back then, though, many folk had family. Big families. These families and the rural communities back then pulled together. Today? More than half these kids come from fully broken homes. And people don't know neighbors that just live two or three houses away.

I am glad to be older.

Occam's Tool| 11.18.11 @ 1:32AM

Good point, Big E.

Well, my dad used to tell me that I was a slacker (I hated warehouse and fast food jobs) with no work ethic, no common sense, etc. I disliked him intensely.

He told me I studied too much. I believe I was the only Jewish child in the US to be told I studied too much.

Well, because my parents did not go to college, I had to arrange for and win my own scholarships. My dad continued to annoy me in college and med school with ignorant stupid comments and kept me on an idiotically short leash (I had to argue for help in paying for an air conditioner in Galveston for my dorm room---student aid was not generous in Galveston, and med school is kind of intensive) while funding my sister's jaunts around the world (he paid for her SEVEN year effort to get an MBA in Denmark, as well as her trips to Finland, France, England, etc. She got one, (after I had been in private practice for 2 years) and is now a baby photographer and travel agent.

My parents did get me a gift of a Nissan Sentra as a graduation gift from Medical School, after they visited Phi Chi medical fraternity and realized it was a slum ("why did you live like this?" "Well, after arguing with dad about getting an airconditioner (Galveston is horribly hot in May when I graduated, incidentally), I didn't think you'd give a shit." JGuilt can cut both ways, you see). Once I got my first paycheck as a doctor, I never asked them for help again. My sister is a major slacker, but I am on my own two feet.

If you aren't rich or a brilliant wonderkind writer, a humaities degree is worthless. But a man with an useful profession can always find work if he's good enough and willing to go where people don't go.

Occam's Tool| 11.18.11 @ 1:42AM

By the way, my dad knows how much I make and how hard I work and how useless my sister is.

Since I saved my grandmother's life with my brilliant clinical acumen and gave her several additional years of useful life, and I did so while my mother and her sisters' were handwringing desperately, he also leaves me alone on common sense issues. When he argues with me on politics, I wipe the floor with him and then dismiss him. he knows I hold him in a certain contempt---not because he didn't work hard as a man or take care of his family when I was a child, but because he put his bet on the wrong horse when my sister and I were both adults. He invested time, money, and effort into my sister, whereas my reward for graduated with Honors in Biology and being accepted to two US Med Schools on my 1st run through was the parental gift of a second hand bicycle.

I have bought my parents gifts that have reasonably approximated what they spent on me for college and med school, except for the car. I'll be the executor of their estate because my sister's MBA is worthless and I have no interest in their stuff, anyway, so I will look over things and won't fight the Leech.

It makes for an interesting parental child relationship when your parents know that you could tell them to go to hell and not care much, when you have saved THEIR parent's life while they stood around helplessly and did nothing.

My parents and sister are Liberals. I'm the Conservative.

jd| 11.18.11 @ 8:36PM

Fascinating story, Occam. You should be proud of what you attained and the person you've become, especially given your relationship with your dad. Wondering if your being a conservative is in any way attributable to being rebellious against what your parents stood for...although in reading your posts over the years at AS I truly believe you are a conservative by conviction.

Interestingly enough, in my own situation, my brother, the eldest and probably the most booksmart, has achieved great wealth as a highly specialized geotechnical engineer. Me, I'm the youngest, who has a BA degree in international studies. In other words, have done nothing with my degree (work-wise), BUT I am the conservative (like my parents) and my brother is the flaming ultra-liberal. Go figure.

Stan Redmond| 11.17.11 @ 1:46PM

Oh please. How many people with BS BA, MA MS degreed people are going to work in a sweatshop assembling barbie dolls and toys for Wal Mart? Even IF those jobs were kept here I doubt you would see a clamouring of college graduates to sew Levi's for a living. The people complaining out at OWS about their student loan debt are too stupid to realize a degree in liberal studies is worthless and are unskilled and at the bottom of the employment food chain. If they were willing to start at the bottom like any high school dropout and work their way to a better life they wouldn't be out their crying in a filthy vermin infested park.

The Big E| 11.17.11 @ 2:49PM

The day may be fast approaching when if they are NOT willing to do such work they will find the alternative is starvation.

Wayne| 11.17.11 @ 9:06AM

Any doubt that socialized medicine would produce the same results as socialized education?

Louis Jenkins| 11.17.11 @ 9:31AM

The Ivy League degree programs have saturated the market. Let's be honest here people, too many degrees and not enough demand. Time was a four year degree was a blessing. Now it is a curse. Better to go to a vocational program and get the "learning" that one really needs. Better money too.

Mike Hawk| 11.17.11 @ 10:06AM

We are overloaded with people with degrees in Sociology, Psychology, Whathaveyou Studies and a glut of law degrees and MBAs. People in skills are and trades are grossly lacking. Too many 'colleges' are producing too many useless idiots with useless degrees. These days a BS degree means just that. BS.

Skippy| 11.17.11 @ 1:36PM

Tell smart youths to enter Nursing.
My wife and 1 of the 3 daughters did.
Great pay; high demand; excellent longterm employment outlook.
I mean, us Boomers are not getting any younger...

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.17.11 @ 10:07AM

In Waco Texas is TSTI... a technical institute.
2 year and four year programs. Employers are lined up there on graduation day.

Tim| 11.17.11 @ 11:05AM

Same with the TSTI in Harlingen, TX.

Margie| 11.17.11 @ 1:56PM

Hey slanderer Ken:

How's that "deal" going that you told me you had with God?
Ya know~ the one where you're supposedly allowed to use His Name in vain?

How's your conscience today, liar and false accuser?

First, you claimed you had the "e mails to PROVE" I asked you to marry me.

Then, you changed your story, and said I didn't ask you that, but I "inquired how your marriage was going" and that you don't have the "PROOF" because "I asked you to delete them!"

So, which is it, you lying reprobate, hmm?

"The LORD has made himself known, he has executed judgment; the wicked are snared in the work of their own hands." Ps. 9:16.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.17.11 @ 4:11PM

Hi Margie
I love you but I am still not interested in discussing marrying you. I noticed that you posted a couple of my e-mails to you. Why don't YOU post the email from YOU? OH...did you delete it for secrecy?

Margie| 11.17.11 @ 5:53PM

You HAVE no conscience.
YOU made the charge here publicly, that I asked you to marry you, you filthy scumbag.
YOU also claimed you had the e mails to PROVE it.

I repeatedly asked you to post them, you did not, because you COULD not.

Then, as of yesterday, you claimed that I did not ask you to marry me but that I "expressed sadness about my marriage and inquired about yours."

A LIE! You changed your story as well saying that~ OOps! you don't have the emails BEAUSE I ASKED YOU TO DELETE them!

Are you that perverted that you really think anybody with half a brain cannot see what a freaking liar you are?

You are SICK, and will burn in Hell for continuing to lie and slander me here.

God takes what you are doing VERY seriously.

Reprobate pervert.

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death." Rev. 21:28.

Oh, and now you think Roman Catholics are "your brothers".
LOL.
I'll just keep posting your e mail showing what a liar you are:

From: Ken
Subject: Re: My post on am spec tonight
Date: January 20, 2010 7:37:34 PM EST
To: vicandmargie

You may not realize it (heh) but I put down our resident "catholic pompous ass" all the time.

Just any time I refer to his church...I call it simply the "Roman church". If you want to prick his balloon that is all that is necessary (evil smile). You can also refer to the statues of the "Saints" in Rome being nothing more than the old Roman gods (little g) with new signs painted on their feet.
(I know...I have seen them in person. little plaques glued tackily on those beautiful carved marble statues.)

Roman church members just absolutely detest being called (correctly by the rest of Christendom) as nothing more than idol worshippers.

Heh, I must warn you though, the insult kicked off one of the "Crusades" though I have forgotten which. It is a killin' insult I delight in when a so-called catholic (which means universal, by the way),
uses the word "catholic". I simply tell them..."No No...I'm in the CATHOLIC CHURCH! You are in that Roman idol worshipping cult from Rome".

Use the insult sparingly, however. Just say "Roman Church". They usually get the message.

You will note that JP NEVER screws with me any more.
God loves you, lady.

REPENT, REPROBATE!

Margie| 11.17.11 @ 7:09PM

Here is another e mail from Ken proving that he actually agrees with me about Roman Catholicism.
Oh, and Ken the reprobate liar: You STILL have not posted ONE e mail from me showing what you accuse me of.
Still waiting, PUNK.

Looky thar!
Seems Ken agrees with me about the false Religion of Catholicism.
Ken the liar just keeps them coming:

More from Ken and his phony claiming to call Catholics his "brothers".

Keep lying Ken, I will post your hypocritical emails for all to see:

From: Ken
Subject: Re:
Date: December 21, 2009 7:58:57 AM EST
To: vicandmargie

Margie you shouldn't feel bad, nor should you "fight with him or any rock-ribbed Catholic".
The poor souls think that sprinkling watwr on them and some priest mumbling ...makes them Christians...because Roman priests have been doing that for two thousand years
Their church wants their "laymen" to keep their ignorant noses out of their Bibles, (and yes Virginia, There is a Catholic version...heh...).

Dave| 11.17.11 @ 10:25AM

I started going to college in 1984, right after graduation. I had to drop out a few years later due to my personal economic needs outweighing my ability to afford college. I knew what I wanted to be, and I had a plan to get there and the the grades, but thanks to Ronald Reagan and the terrible economy of the mid 80's, it was not to be for me. I tried sometime later to return to college, and that worked for a while, but real life has its way of sneaking up on you and interfering. So I gave up. I wanted to return for so many years, but like many others life just got in the way. I would have loved to have gotten a student loan, but I couldn't get one back then. Funny how the rules can shaft ya both ways. But more importantly - I never had to deal with a student loan until I got married.

My wife has a student loan. It was a mere $2,000.00 when she got part of it (only part), but somehow the government finessed that into $25,000.00. I love how government's accountant can calculate things. If they'd do that to my bank accounts, I'd be rich from interest.

We've managed to pay off part of it, a little part. On one hand I'd love for the government to absolve us of the debt. It would mean we could finally buy a house and maybe get her a better car than the one that seems perpetually on the verge of breakdown. On the other hand, I want to pay it off so I can feel proud about it. Yes, sinful I know, but hey... I'm human.

Student loans should be re-examined regularly to verify the student deserves to be burdened with weight of it. Someone who borrowed 2k and now owes 25k probably doesn't deserve that BS surcharge from the government's attempt to punish someone out of work. In fact, no one deserves that type of treatment.

And it would be nice if they eased up on the stuff they do to doctors. I've got a great doc, paying everything to get his loans paid back. At some point, he's already considered giving up due to the minimal progress one makes repaying these loans. If you don't pay on one, you just have no idea. It's insane.

Mike Hawk| 11.17.11 @ 10:44AM

Terrible ecomomy in the 80s under Reagan??? Where were you living??

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.17.11 @ 1:23PM

Mike,
I was living in Texas...in a depression! We in the energy business had literally worked ourselves out of a job...producing and delivering energy.

Solution? We diversified into sectors where cheap energy was a boost. Again, hard work and tightening our belts.

Occam's Tool| 11.18.11 @ 1:45AM

Mike: hat was when they raised my tution in Texas 1000 percent---in the 80s---85-88 to be exact...in Texas. It was the state suffering while the others were doing well. Now it is reversed.

And Dave, you are so right. I had to start paying my Student Loans back in Residency! G-d Bless, pal, and may you see your way to debt clearance soon.

Indy| 11.17.11 @ 2:18PM

"but thanks to Ronald Reagan and the terrible economy of the mid 80's, it was not to be for me"

ah, Jimmy Carter policies, remember those? gas lines, double digit unemployment, Reagan inherited a terrible recession and put policies in place that led to ecomonic growth for many years.

I went to an in state school, lived at home and commuted, worked hard and got a scholarship, plus had a part time job. Upon graduation, the only growth was a second bankruptcy court being built to handle the collapse of the energy sector so what did I do? I packed up and moved to where I could find a job, it took me just a month to gain an entry level position and have been employed ever since.

I have to thank my parents for teaching me the value of hard work, they did not cast blame for any of the struggles they faced and there were many, instead they worked hard.

tsd| 11.17.11 @ 10:28AM

What do you expect from a delusional system full of self absorbed morons who could not make it in the private sector... as they say, those who can, do, those who can't teach. College professors making $250K for little or no work, they are only interested in self preservation. What do you expect out of a self regulated group of greedy pricks??

Dixie Pixie| 11.17.11 @ 10:43AM

Does anyone else sense a new credit bubble that is certain to burst?
When the housing bubble burst, the banks could demand repayment or take the house back through foreclosure.

When the student loan bubble bursts, how will the loner of record (the Federal Government) collect the money loaned plus interest or take back the university degree.
The way I see it, when the bubble bursts, the Federal Government will have to forgo all or part of the student loan or demand a fixed period of servitude to the state to repay the loan.

Maybe the Socialists did know what they were doing when Obama took over the student loan program.
Maybe the Socialists know the bubble could burst at the time of their choosing.
That will give the Socialists a cadre of university indoctrinated Leftists legally bound to the Federal Government until the Federal Government decides to release them from their student debt.

What would the Socialists do with such an cadre legally bound into servitude, to them.
Would such an cadre give the Socialists the manpower needed to make their victory complete?

What are your thoughts on this idea.

Dave | 11.17.11 @ 10:54AM

At the end of my senior year in high school ('63), my auto shop teacher, Willie Dancer, warned us about something I've never forgot: "Some of you guys moving on to higher education are going to find out when you get there that there ain't no one smarter than a college freshmen. Don't BE that freshman. That year, you won't BE that smart." I figured out later it was Willie's way of telling us to keep our ears open and mouth shut. At least until we were sophomores.

I don't know if Mr. Dancer's words are true today, but his advice might need a tweaking. If he were teaching these days, Willie might say: "There ain't no one feelin' more entitled than a college kid taking-out a student loan."

'Ya think?

Petronius| 11.17.11 @ 10:57AM

The educrats want students at their conformatories to be like minded to themselves. Employers want a docile work force of agreeable deskopods. Useful thought and knowledge aren't part of the mix where "belonging"comes first. What makes college different is that one cannot simply join the herd. One get's accepted and pays sooner or later, but validated with the sacred Degree when they feel like it. But for those like me who want to take courses for personal interest without declaring a major with intention of taking that degree, fuggetaboutit. They won't let you even if you hand over dead presidents with your application and have a 4.0 record. Schools are lousy places to try to learn what you Want to know.

Vern Crisler| 11.17.11 @ 11:01AM

Don't listen to the pessimists. Go to college, a good college if you can. Try not to go too much in debt on your credit cards while in college. It'll be very difficult to pay those off while paying off a student loan, not unless you want to live with mom & dad for awhile.

Education is not just for jobs; it's also for the improvement of the mind, to free it from the ignorance and superstitions of the past (and the present). Never stop learning. . . .

tsd| 11.17.11 @ 11:55AM

The education system has nothing to do with improving your mind, it has to do with collecting money for over priced educators. Learning anything in college usually happens in spite of the system. Use all you time to learn all you can...it is up to you and only you. You do not need this system, but if you choose to go for the piece of paper, use your time and money wisely!!!

Vern Crisler| 11.17.11 @ 12:48PM

I don't agree with your cynical take on the education system. That is certainly a lot wrong with it, but I think you'll regret it all your life if you do not go to college. Unfortunately, doing it on your in most cases means not doing anything at all. Without the discipline of regular study (to pass tests, etc), you end up spending all your time working, playing, and watching TV instead. Nothing wrong with that, but not conducive to a life of learning.

Ivory Tower Lampooner| 11.17.11 @ 1:28PM

tsd's words: "The [American] education system has nothing to do with improving your mind, it has to do with collecting money for over priced educators. Learning anything in college usually happens in spite of the system."

A fine synopsis of what all should take away from this page. It is appreciated, tsd.

RichTex| 11.17.11 @ 11:53AM

Mr. Bass quotes an AP article, “…45 percent of students show no significant improvement in critical thinking.” For proof of that, Exhibit A – the election of Barak Obama. Exhibit B – Occupy Wall Street.

Appleby| 11.17.11 @ 12:17PM

For the benefit of those engineering and science mavens who have yet again regurgitated their ignorant contempt for a classical liberal arts degree, I am going to say this again.

University is not a trade or vocational school, and you should NOT expect to get job skills there. A university education is to fit you for LIFE, not for earning a living. A classical liberal arts degree gives you a thorough grounding in logic, critical thinking, history, Latin and/or Greek, Western classical literature, modern language(s), the ability to write a coherent English paragraph on a set subject without including LOL (and by the way, the word is People, not PPL), and above all else the ability to do research and use that research to learn new things. A classical liberal arts education will fit you for life in the wider world, give you the ability to converse with Kings and Cowboys, Ambassadors and Farmers, Poets and Dishwashers, wherever you may find yourself. Oh, and incidentally, to pinpoint exactly where you find yourself, and how to behave while there. And as Abraham Lincoln and countless others including my sainted Daddy prove, it is entirely possible to get such an education without ever darkening the door of a schoolhouse.

If you majored in Lesbian Studies or Gender Identity in Rock and Roll, blaming the liberal arts department because you thought you could get a job with that major is like blaming Willy Wonka for your rotting teeth.

Dmac| 11.17.11 @ 5:07PM

True, but colleges and universites having those liberal arts degree programs only brings up the cost for all degrees. You want to learn art, go to work in a museum, you want to learn how to make clay pots, go to pottery school. It is time to get all these feel good degrees out of our public universities. Science, math, engineering, medicine and such. Not lawyers though, we have too damn many of them now(just a joke).

Slacker| 11.17.11 @ 12:39PM

An overlooked source of graduate frustration is that college is really fun. Then one day you graduate and life unexpectedly turns to crap.

Transitioning to work is no fun after 6 years of partying. Entry level positions suck. My first year out was probably the worst stage of my life (so far). Did I regret getting the degrees? Yes, I guess so. Then again I’m a slacker.

But, there is nothing to do but suck it up and work. I guess I’ve been successful enough from a career perspective but, honestly I’ve hated every minute of it. The graduates have been living the good life. That’s mostly over now. Naturally they are not happy. They will get over it.

As for universalities pushing left wing ideology –had the opposite effect on me. It was pretty apparent their political correctness was just another way to lie and the system wasn’t too into white males (or Asian males for that matter). I went in a nice tolerant idealist and left a right winger.

JFGalt| 11.17.11 @ 12:59PM

While I agree with the article and its premise - there is one reality. No degree - no job. Many HR managers, especially now, have a choice of a person with a degree and a person without despite the greater chance of that person leaving when something more relevent to their degree comes along. They will go with the person with a degree despite the lack of a need of the related skills for the job at hand. Most HR folks I've seen are cut of the same cloth as the academics.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.17.11 @ 1:35PM

Galt,
I'm sorry. Let me be plainspoken...SCREW THE HR NERDS.
Figure out how to go around them and DON'T send resumes.
Most good jobs are a result of a nice personal reference...or an unexpected meeting with a boss.

Second...............Many if not most owners of small businesses don't have a degree. They could give a s**t less about degrees.

.....Think small business...and working your butt off. (smile)
Try washing the windows, (unpaid), of the boss's office where you want to work. Do it every day for a week. You can get that nice meeting.

Stan Redmond| 11.17.11 @ 1:53PM

Amen. I dropped out of college for lack of money. I tought myself enough about manufacturing and engineering out of necessity and enjoyment. NOW, I own my business and employ people. I even employ people on foreign soil (I'm an evil outsources because they provide the best quality for what I sell).

Banner| 11.18.11 @ 1:27AM

Mr. Stan Redmond: I am not doubting you or wishing to. Please take this as a serious question. Where, given what you are doing, do you find the time to peruse through American Spectator articles, then read some reader comments, and then post one of your own?

I am glad for your input. We need more entrepreneurs and those who have chosen the different path and succeeded.

Just where and how do you get the time?

And just give us a hint -- you are older than 55 I am guessing.

Stan Redmond| 11.19.11 @ 9:03PM

I am in my late 30s. I work 12 - 16 hours a day usually. Part of my relaxation, and routine, is studying politics. People who do not study politics in Business are doomed to be victims of our political system. I enjoy reading AM SPEC so spend time here. I am also in manufacturing and employ good people that do not need supervision and enjoy the work. I also use technology that does not need supervision (taking jobs like those EVIL ATMs and CNC machines)). I keep a well functioning shop and do not need to focus 100% on my operations. I am also fortunate to have been born in an era wher I have access to the internet anytime and anywhere in the world.

You always find time to do things you enjoy and I have also incorporated what I enjoy in to the business.

Margie| 11.17.11 @ 1:57PM

Hey slanderer Ken:

How's that "deal" going that you told me you had with God?
Ya know~ the one where you're supposedly allowed to use His Name in vain?

How's your conscience today, liar and false accuser?

First, you claimed you had the "e mails to PROVE" I asked you to marry me.

Then, you changed your story, and said I didn't ask you that, but I "inquired how your marriage was going" and that you don't have the "PROOF" because "I asked you to delete them!"

So, which is it, you lying reprobate, hmm?

"The LORD has made himself known, he has executed judgment; the wicked are snared in the work of their own hands." Ps. 9:16.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.17.11 @ 4:27PM

Margie| 11.17.11 @ 5:54PM

You HAVE no conscience.
YOU made the charge here publicly, that I asked you to marry you, you filthy scumbag.
YOU also claimed you had the e mails to PROVE it.

I repeatedly asked you to post them, you did not, because you COULD not.

Then, as of yesterday, you claimed that I did not ask you to marry me but that I "expressed sadness about my marriage and inquired about yours."

A LIE! You changed your story as well saying that~ OOps! you don't have the emails BEAUSE I ASKED YOU TO DELETE them!

Are you that perverted that you really think anybody with half a brain cannot see what a freaking liar you are?

You are SICK, and will burn in Hell for continuing to lie and slander me here.

God takes what you are doing VERY seriously.

Reprobate pervert.

Margie| 11.17.11 @ 7:10PM

Looky thar!
Seems Ken agrees with me about the false Religion of Catholicism.
Ken the liar just keeps them coming:

More from Ken and his phony claiming to call Catholics his "brothers".

Keep lying Ken, I will post your hypocritical emails for all to see:

From: Ken
Subject: Re:
Date: December 21, 2009 7:58:57 AM EST
To: vicandmargie

Dmac| 11.17.11 @ 5:20PM

".....Think small business...and working your butt off. (smile)
Try washing the windows, (unpaid), of the boss's office where you want to work. Do it every day for a week. You can get that nice meeting." Yeah do that, and you'll done is shown some ass with an MBA in business that you will work cheap.
Go around the HR department, sorry Ken, the good ol boy days are about over. Oh, and that guy with the MBA, you know what the first thing his proffesors taught him was? They taught him to only hire someone with a college degree. Thats how they keep that college going and making money from those government backed student loans, by teaching their students to only hire someone with a college degree.
I've been in industrial sales for over 30 years and I watch these kids come from college with their MBA, and the first time a customer says to them, "thats not how I want this deal to go down", they are dumbfopunded and speechless. A business degree is a joke. I'll take someone with 2-4 years of experience over a an MBE degreed twit anyday, allday. Most jobs should not require a college degree. Most jobs should put the new hire with an experiencrd employee to show them the ropes. Unless you want to be an engineer, doctor laywer or such, you really shouldn't need a college degree. Remeber, those that can do, and those that can't teach and that would inclide your proffesor in that business school.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.17.11 @ 6:39PM

Dmac,
you are a communist!

Kiss my arse and re-read my post like an "educated" person...or did you go to Haaaaarvad?

Margie| 11.17.11 @ 7:12PM

Oh no!
Look everybody!
Ken the Christian says kiss his arse to someone.
Where are the taunts by the holier than thou backers of this lying reprobate?

Ken,
Kiss my arse you filthy bastard.
You will burn in Hell for your lies.
I just LOVE the PROMISES of GOD~ that He will throw you into HELL for it!

jd| 11.18.11 @ 8:50PM

Margie,

Maybe you need to re-read those Bible verses of yours. Your posts have devolved into a hate-filled, spiteful, mean and un-Christianlike attack. Have you not learned the message of Jesus Christ? It's not about memorizing the Bible, it's about exhibiting the love, humility, kindness, forgiveness and generosity of spirit. Maybe you SHOULD become a Catholic.

mike c| 11.17.11 @ 2:41PM

You want a job? Learn a trade.

Master the trade and start a company

The major problem w/ US businesses is the upper management people don't know how to DO anything. They have no skills.

Learn how to build and create your own reality.

Stan Redmond| 11.19.11 @ 9:27PM

Amen.

Christopher Manion| 11.17.11 @ 1:07PM

“The aim of totalitarian education has never been to instill convictions but to destroy the capacity to form any.”
Hannah Arendt

Petronius| 11.17.11 @ 1:34PM

"You're not supposed to think! You're supposed to do as you're told!"
Fr.Donovan

fwb| 11.17.11 @ 3:51PM

Stupid people lose all the time. They were stupid to borrow money. Every student should 1) get a job and 2) pay the college on a monthly program that most colleges offer, and for a minor fee.

No one made anyone borrow. That choice was one the student made. There was a time when there were no loans or at least one had to have real credit to obtain such. Students got jobs, one or two or three, and lived on peanut butter for three meals a day.

Tuition has risen BECAUSE there is money available through loans and grants. Universities know they can raise costs and the system responds to "make it easier".

So if you owe a bunch of money it si because you were lazy and stupid, well maybe just ignorant and didn't figure out a better way to go through.

My grandfather worked most of the year and took courses in the summer using the money he had saved. No this was in the 1920s so it was a little different but the concept is still the same.

That which comes to easily is never really respected. That for which one must work is always much more dear.

Dmac| 11.17.11 @ 5:27PM

fwb, back in the 70's you could work part time and pay for college. Not so today. A year of college in Texas is anywhere from 19 to 36K . I'll agree with others that say getting a degree in the arts is not going to get you a good paying job, so don't borrow for that. But for those that are going to engineering , medical, and law school then they really don't have much choice except to take a loan as the cost of college is out of reach for most middle class parents. I get tired of hearing those of us who grew up in the early 80's, 70's or before try to equate life then to life now. Life in the 70's and early 80's was breeze compared to life now.

fwb| 11.17.11 @ 3:57PM

There are several other trends that add to higher education's difficulties. One is the high number of college graduates. Generation Y is the most college-educated cohort in American history. Because the market is flooded with holders of bachelor's degrees, the value of those degrees is diluted.

No the problem is that a bachelor's degree today provides a level of education on par with a HS diploma of 25-30 yrs ago. Grade inflation and the lack of skills on the part of the students coming in have resulted in a lowering of the expectations and the level of education in the classroom.

Check out a basic chemistry text from 1985-1990 and compare to one from 2010. So much has been removed simply because the students are incapable, due to a lack of education in government run schools, of grasping and utilizing that information.

I am sooooo fed up with higher ed because instead of holding students' collective feet to the fire, higher ed has wimped out.

Oldefarte| 11.17.11 @ 4:34PM

The problems of higher education are numerous. Liberal arts degrees should be outlawed unless the seeker intends to teach [employers don't give a rat's behind about what year so me war began etc]. Artsy-farsy degrees are basically useless [unless again one intends to teach same]. Universities/colleges should instead concentrate on engineering, business, economics etc specialties; which provide the graduate with the needed educational foundation in professionally needed employments. Corporations simply do not have the time necessary to say instruct hired employees on the basics [ie what balance sheets, income statements, business principles etc represent]. Additionally the idiot morons that are currently enrolled in universities/colleges should devote 24-7 their entire waking time periods to STUDYING/LEARNING/RESEARCHING etc, and not STREET PROTESTING AKA OCCUPY WALL STREET WISE! Also, universities/colleges should stop diluting their education processes by watering down their acceptance standards by accepting unqualified high school '''''graduates''''' for politically correct purposes, establishing minority set asides under affirmative action bullexcrement, etc. Finally, the morons inside academia need to cease their devotion to socialism by politically supporting worthless Democrats, but of course when the private industry employees are losing their jobs, the unemployment rate is at 20% realistically, the teachers are and will always have their nine-month jobs while being paid for twelve months by the TAXPAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Banner| 11.18.11 @ 1:36AM

Funny how you didn't mention the 300 - 400 slots big universities set aside for undergraduate athletes, some of whom are on the 6-year plan. Redshirts?

I've not see a syllable of complaining about how NCAA athletics at Big Ten, SEC, Pac10, ACC etc. helps skew and screw the whole

If we're going to argue for abolishing soft sciences and soft degrees, where's the hard talk about dumping the athletics programs? If you want to talk about incapable and illiterate graduates with diplomas in hand, look no further than the athletics department.

Pat| 11.17.11 @ 4:54PM

Now that the college scam is unraveling, the logical next step is market driven degrees. One, two, three, four and five year degrees can easily replace the current product offerings of bachelor and masters degrees. Let employers decide how much those three mandatory sociology courses are actually worth to them when hiring a chemical engineer – or those two inorganic chem. courses when hiring an accountant. If a talented inner city athlete can turn pro in the NBA before finishing college, why can’t a talented Chinese-American math whiz turn pro in an engineering firm without suffering through 4 full years of nonsense? Hasn’t it been a long time since Henry Ford offered the public new cars in any color they want as long as it’s black? Is it time universities dropped the Henry Ford approach and offered novel options and fast track degrees which come in more colors than just black?

College can extend adolescence another 4 to 6 years, allowing those young person frontal lobes additional time to develop - but at what cost to either the individual or society? Would 2 or 3 additional years within the workforce earning a living and gaining on the job experience outweigh the benefits of unwanted sociology or art history courses?

Sociology professors require love, early retirement and fat pensions too but should parents have to subsidize their lifelong hibernation in a state of extended navel gazing? Let the market decide, with appropriate degree options, how much formal education is enough and stop insisting we force American kids to accept this regimented, drawn out farce we term a “liberal education”.

Dmac| 11.17.11 @ 5:31PM

That was beautiful Pat. Finally someone sees right through the bullshit of the education beauracracy.

bnr| 11.18.11 @ 1:49AM

Pat,
I laughed and cried so hard about a year ago when I read the following story in a local newspaper about Big U., its athletics programs, a former athlete and an incoming freshman co-ed.

For the younger set, a co-ed is what used to be used to refer to a woman student.

The article featured the story of Big U.'s former varsity star athlete coming back to complete his degree and this incoming bright eyed freshman girl from the local area. The article's opening was something like, "Yes, it is actually kind of dreamy cool sitting next to him in class now." Words spoken by the petite freshman.

She's refering to her classmate, the former athlete, who is now 31 years old. They sit next to each other in a Sociology 101 course.

It is her first semester. It is truly unclear which semester this represents for the former jock.

"He has gained weight, though. I remember very clearly my parents taking me to the games. He was my favorite when I was in junior high. I had an autographed picture of him in my locker."

It was not completely conclusive in the article, but it left little doubt that the former athlete still needed about 60 hours of credits before he would be done with his undergraduate degree.

How is this possible? Still 60 hours to go? That represents at least four more semesters.

Yet the guy played all 4 years of varsity, his full eligibility under NCAA rules. But, as evidenced, he never even came within 10 miles of getting his undergraduate degree back while playing for the university!

williams.1343@osu.edu| 11.17.11 @ 4:54PM

I am a professor at a no-prestige institution, and I can say that at least 30% of my students do not belong in a college of ANY sort; they can't read, write, or think, and lack curiosity about ANYTHING, except possibly the football team. They, and society, would be FAR better off if they could go learn a trade somewhere and contribute to society that way. As for me, I often feel like the unnamed person to whom Twain referred: "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and it only annoys the pig."

Banner| 11.18.11 @ 1:51AM

Oink, oink!

Dmac| 11.17.11 @ 5:35PM

"They, and society, would be FAR better off if they could go learn a trade somewhere and contribute to society that way", they'd still have to go to college to learn Chinese so they could get that job in the trades. Remeber Williams, we don't make anything in this country anymore because our college educated corporate leaders have decided to hell with my fellow Americans, let them eat cake while I make more profit for my pocket. First let me go sell a few hundred shares since prices are up today and I'll buy them back in the morning and profit on both ends of the sale. Those silly dumbasses and thei 401k's. Haven't they figured out that corporate America uses those 401k's as our private piggy banks?

edo| 11.17.11 @ 6:08PM

A career goal should come first, then research the steps to get there. For many, college is just an obscuration of the path to gainful employment.

Richard Baker| 11.17.11 @ 6:49PM

Ivory Tower Lampooner:
Plus I refused to "curve" grades which really irked the little dears. The county had a grading scale of 90-100=A, 80-89=B, and so on. I used the straight policy and some of my kids thought this "unfair."

Ivory Tower Lampooner| 11.18.11 @ 1:59AM

A 90 percentile could get a straight A in the county grading scale? A score of 82 earns a letter grade B?

As I recall nothing below 95 merited A.

Someone earlier posted how grade inflation has also terribly skewed this whole thing. Employeers looking at candidates probably write off lower than 3.0 GPA applicants.

I'll bet the ranch that a 1970's or 1980's graduate with a 3.30 GPA for four years of college would be topping out at something like a 3.80 or better in today's soft grading.

Any thoughts from others on this?

POST American| 11.17.11 @ 10:30PM

---TAKE NOTE---

Anyone who's watched colleges for any
period of time realizes the rediculous costs issue.

Last time we checked, it was 50,000 bucks
just for a year's tuition at even a mediocre private school
like NYU. Even beyond the laughable decline
in quality (housewives with MAs teaching as
tenured profs) --and the Rockefeller EUGENICS
'social engineering' ops ----this is an outrage.

WHY costs should be such, for institutions
laden with benefits, write offs, generous endowments etc.
---is NEVER effectively addressed.

Further, it serves the purpose of
getting generation after generation
pre-wired into our corrupt debt serf
generating USURY system.

Again, NEVER talked about, even during
election time.

rbb| 11.18.11 @ 12:25AM

Mr. Bass wrote: "It's possible that a master's degree could soon become the bachelor's degree of past years -- the bare minimum necessary to distinguish an applicant for a job."

Mr. Bass, you are behind the times. This is already the case. It is absurd, but it is the case. Of 10,000 jobs, maybe a handful require a masters of some sort.

ole meanie| 11.18.11 @ 9:50AM

Not only do student loans take forever to pay off, they are paid off in after-tax earnings. This can easily put a recent graduate in a situation where his earnings are insufficient to pay his living expenses and his educational debt.

While degree holders stuggle to get and keep jobs apying $30,000 per year, people who go through apprenticeship programs for the trades start--around my area-- at $80,000 and have zero educational debt.

ole meanie| 11.18.11 @ 9:50AM

Keith| 11.18.11 @ 11:33AM

Bumping Kenny's great link on college bust:
http://inflation.us/videos.html

The solution? Study online at home while interning in your career field. You earn money to pay off your college expense and the biggest bonus is you don't have to sit in some stupid classroom listening to a Marxist professor drone on and on about the evils of capitalism.

Wonder why Obama is so keen on college education? College is where the Lefties spawn "useful idiots" for their Occupy protests. Why any conservative would PAY to send their kid to a socialist training camp is beyond me.

Stupid is as stupid does. College has become a brain drain.

Richard Baker| 11.18.11 @ 9:05PM

Banner:
My one comment on athletes is that "redshirting" needs to go. 4 years is enough to get their "degree" and use their athletic eligibility. Another solution is to reduce or eliminate athletic scholarships. Or, create a degree program in professional sports and make the little dears take and pass that with at least a B average (I know, the athletic departments will attempt to pervert that).

Tim| 11.20.11 @ 1:01PM

There is a fiction that everyone can have an aspirational job if they try hard enough. They can't - these jobs are rare and elite, and that is what makes them aspirational.
Largely, they go to people from well connected, rich families, and historically those people have been the only ones with college degrees.
Now everyone has one, and they don't help you get elite jobs so much because... well, they were a sign of connectedness, not a cause as we had believed.
So er, yeah, why go to college? Because getting drunk around coed girls, while being given an artificial sense of purpose and importance is nice, I mean that's a totally decent reason.
I'd pay for that, definitely.

The bailout issue is a bit more complicated though. Is it useful for our economy to have all these 20 year olds paying most of their income in debt interest? So that it goes to the banks instead of to purchasing goods from local businesses?
Actually, looking at the banks, probably yes. Cos those things have our (parents) pension funds in, and we need them to not die.

Anon| 11.20.11 @ 7:18PM

Jesus Christ.

I always knew the target audience of the Spectator is cranky, crotchety, mean-spirited, resentful, HATEFUL old bastards, but ... JE-SUS CHRIST.

I've never read through a comments section that displayed unvarnished contempt for this nation's future.

Thank God my parents were more supportive.

Signed,

A 22-year-old college graduate and history major.
Gainfully employed.

Nixonfan| 11.21.11 @ 7:44PM

With reference to worthless undergraduate education, I would bring to your attention "one of the most popular courses at Georgetown" this semester:
SOCI-124-01 or “Sociology of Hip-Hop — Urban Theodicy of Jay-Z.”
This challenging course will guarantee your son or daughter a front row seat at the next Occupy rally.

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