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Last Call
Bully Pulpit
Is it still okay to put bullying in some kind of historic context?
You may have noticed that this year’s trendy trauma is bullying, which replaces last year’s obesity. The year before that it was ADD syndrome and I think the year before that it was dyslexia, or maybe it was lactose intolerance and peanut allergies. Suddenly, it would appear, every kid is now being bullied — maybe for being overweight, antsy, and anti-peanut. In any case, bullying now joins the ranks of fad conditions. Whatever happened to hypoglycemia and mononucleosis, which plagued us all years ago?
To quote an old boyhood classmate, “Everyone got bullied where I went to school in New York.” It was part of going to school. In return, you got off a good zinger or maybe you even beat up the bully; I preferred the withering retort to fisticuffs myself. Before it was labeled “bullying,” it was known as teasing or taunting. Perhaps it didn’t qualify as full-fledged bullying, which conjures up being set upon by two-fisted schoolyard toughs, but it could still sting. I was terrorized by a neighborhood bully, Russell, who delivered nasty noogies to my upper arm, grabbed me in half-nelsons, and tackled me from behind.
I was heckled from 6 to 16 for my oversized nose (“The Nose knows!”), for my skinny frame (“Here comes Ichabod Crane!”), for my name (“Hey, Napkin!” was considered a hilarious bon mot all through grade school), for my gap-toothed grin, for my stammering and for my geeky bucket-cuffed Levis (“Hey, Napkin, where’s the flood?”).
Somehow I survived. My face sort of pulled itself together, I gained a few pounds, nobody thought my name was funny after several joke-filled years, I stopped stuttering and rolling up my pants (I didn’t get the gap filled in until I was 40, beyond the bullying age — only to learn too late that girls thought it was sexy). To quote the new mantra devised to soothe the bullied: It gets better.
Before it gets better, though, you have to put up with this otherwise routine rite of passage that nobody paid much attention to until nervous, over-protective parents and excitable child psychologists began treating bullying like bubonic plague. Just to make it an official new social danger, there’s now even a book about bullying and anti-bully protest marches; I expect soon to see people wearing ribbons or wristbands and perhaps in time a telethon to combat schoolyard bullies (“Take back our playgrounds!”).
Terming school ground run-ins “bullying” turns every childhood confrontation into a dreaded condition that calls for cries of outrage from schoolroom watchdogs. Indeed, a New Jersey school has just instituted seminars for teachers and students to fight this hideous social menace in our midst—yet another enlightened use of classroom time that might otherwise be squandered on math, geography, or grammar.
By all means, let kids learn to read and write on their own damn time instead of taking up valuable class hours more wisely used to teach them how to guard against unwanted slurs and wisecracks that might injure their feelings. Should a loudmouthed classmate shout, “Billy Smithers is a wimp!” (or in my day, “a spaz”), students within earshot need to rise up against the bully and call for a seminar to deal with his uncalled-for accusation.
The accursed bully can then be taken in hand and asked to explain the underlying reasons for the nasty taunt. It’s highly likely that, with a little gym class intervention, Billy and his bully will shake hands and become fast friends for life.
Bullying, however, is just the tip of the childhood trauma iceberg. Much more damaging, I contend, is being turned down at a school dance by the girl of your dreams, being razzed unmercifully for striking out in a softball game, or for not being invited to a party you hear about from a friend who got invited. This kind of stuff can scar you for life, or at least through the eighth grade, but chances are pretty good you’ll survive intact. Back in the day, it was called growing up. If they’re still mocking you at your 35th high school reunion, maybe you better see the counselor.
About the Author
Gerald Nachman is a writer in San Francisco and most recently the author of Right Here on Our Stage Tonight!: Ed Sullivan’s America (University of California Press).
Letter to the Editor View all comments (114) | Leave a comment
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ColoradoTicket| 11.15.11 @ 8:21AM
Mr. Nachman appears to be trapped somewhere in the 1950s. Kids today would not say, "Billy Smithers is a wimp." They'd say, "Billy Smithers is a fuckin' fag."
This is the language of today's youth, and it is spewed on playgrounds, social networks, such as Facebook, and through other communication technologies.
The number of children who have committed suicide in the past few years because of bullying is staggering. Mr. Nachman, surely you have read about these suicides!
This article is another example of American Spectator telling half the story, spinning its own twisted, dirty yarn.
But Nachman's dismissal of bullying as a serious issue will appeal to AmSpec's readership. All you have to do is read the comments on this blog to see that many, if not most, of the posters are hateful bigots.
albert constantine jr.| 11.15.11 @ 8:47AM
Given the photo of Warren Oates from "Stripes" that accompanies this article, I'd have to respond with his immortal line: "Lighten up, Francis". Teaching children the appropriate way to cope with bullies starts with parents, and one of the important tools in the anti-bullying toolbox is the ability to stand up for one's self and confront the antagonist. During my own youth, I recall an occasion when two individuals in my high school whom I barely knew decided to begin taunting me for no discernible reason. When I realized that ignoring it was not going to be an effective strategy to end it, I separated the players and challenged each directly. Both backed down from the physical confrontation and ceased messing with me. In the years that followed, I managed to get along fairly well with both ( though it might bear mentioning that one committed suicide around age 25, and the other died many years before his 50th birthday). Therein is the lesson of small government; the solutions to your problems should start with yourself.
JimP| 11.15.11 @ 9:44AM
Good grief, COTicket. You just proved you are a "wimp", and thus unqualified to judge Mr. Nachman or AmSpec, or 'the scouge of bullying' objectively. But you sure did make me LOL. Maybe your entire comment was parody, and I just didn't see that at first.
Andrea| 11.15.11 @ 11:23AM
You prove COTicket's point quite well, JimP. Your voice is a tad shrill.
DTOM| 11.15.11 @ 11:38AM
Oh Andrea!!!
COTix called most of the posters here hateful bigots.
And you respond to someone suggesting that they lighten as proof that what , he's a hateful bigot.
No, Andrea, you and COTix show yourselves to be the hateful bigots. And your voices are not just a tad shrill, they break glass at a hundred paces.
If you don't like the articles here, if you don't like the postings here, do yourselves a favor, just go away. No one will miss intellectual giants the likes of you. Not for a femtosecond.
And why is it that the teachers unions who promote the "Anti-bullying" legislation have been seen to be the biggest bullies around! Damned hypocrite, too. SCAT!
JimP| 11.15.11 @ 1:43PM
Shrill? Shrill. Are you sure you want to go with that? You think I am screaming at COTicket, while I am also ROTFL? That's rich.
Ironically, it is just this kind of hysterical over reaction by you and COTicket that lead to the hands off, see no evil, attitude that THKrupp descibes below. Hysterical, hyperbolic, litigious ninnies who would not allow their kids to be disciplined by schools caused the conditions that allowed the kind of bullying Krupp describes. All of the social problems we have since the late 1960's, real ones and those imagined by ninnies/wimps, are the result of leftist "progressive" "liberal" policies and behavior. And, no, I'm not screaming, because it's true and when you have the truth, there is no need to scream.
THKrupp| 11.16.11 @ 7:28AM
Exactly, It was the complete lack of someone calling us on our crap that lead to all that. You dont need a law or some sort of bully police to stop this kind of behavior. Just adults that arent afraid to tell kids to knock the crap off. There are acceptable forms of behavior and unacceptable. It should be fairly easy to tell someone which is which.
Stuart Koehl| 11.16.11 @ 2:39PM
No, you needed someone to kick you in the ass and realize what an insignificant putz you really were. I'm sure lots of grownups told you to stop acting like a hooligan--but it made no impression on you. A size 13 boot up your butt makes an impression you don't soon forget.
THKrupp| 11.16.11 @ 5:52PM
My parents were of the spare the rod spoil the child school of parenting. I was beaten with a belt on many occasions. I knew what I was doing was wrong. I dont have any excuses for it. The point of my responses is that in all my time in high school only one teacher came up and call us out on it. At home I was a pretty good kid. Minded my parents well etc etc. If someone would have told them how I was acting they would have whipped the tar out of me. You are right..we did it because we got away with it. Dont worry Dad made sure I knew I was an insignificant putz I was never fuzzy on that point. But I got over it and like what other people said I went to college and was completely different. Ive had a pretty great life compared to most people, but if I could change one thing, it would be how I treated other people when I was in high school
fmm| 11.15.11 @ 11:49AM
And what do you think is the reason for the change in language and the suicides? Could it be the result of some philosophy which fails to teach children how to comport themselves, deal with adversity, and learn self respect? Treating symptoms instead of the disease just makes things worse.
Stuart Koehl| 11.15.11 @ 1:02PM
Cyber bullying? Jeez! What a bunch of fags we're raising if they can't deal with a little name calling. They should try real bullying, for a change.
I went to public school in New York City from 1961 to 1972. Being short, skinny, and by far the smartest kid in the class, I was bullied from day one. Being called a "fuckin' fag" I would consider almost a compliment as compared to the other things I was called. And I definitely preferred being called names to being physically abused.
This resulted in my learning to run fast. However, by the time the teen years hit, the bullies had gotten bigger and faster, and I had not. At that point, I learned an important lesson: bullies are cowards. They look for soft targets. One day, being backed into a corner by one kid, I just decided I had had enough--instead of cringing or begging, I just had at him (think Ralphie in "Christmas Story" after Scut Farkis hit him with that snowball). I got the crap beaten out of me. But so did he. I had a black eye and a bloody nose. So did he. He also had a big goose egg on his head where I picked up a dead branch and broke it over his head. The fight ended about then, since both of us hurt too much to go on.
From that day forward, I may have been called names (but as a master of rank-out combat, I usually gave better than I got), but nobody beat me up. Instead, that phrase "strange new respect" came to mind. The bullies recognized that I was not a pushover, and went looking for easier game.
And adults aren't doing kids any favors by intervening in these affairs. It teaches them that there will always be someone to adjudicate their differences with others. They never learn to fight their own battles. And it carries over into other phases of life, which is why we, as a society, have become so litigious, and why we as a country, don't know how to deal with bullies in the international arena.
Paul Ello, one of my professors at Georgetown University, used to say in his Introduction to International Relations course that "Everything you need to know about international relations you can learn on the playground by fourth grade".
Not any more, apparently.
Stan Redmond| 11.15.11 @ 2:31PM
I grew up in a small town and went to a small school. When such bullying took place the gym coach had boxing gloves he gave to the guys that wanted to duke it out. Nowadays he would probably have been thrown in jail.
Bullying is not a new scourge. It's just a new "victim" class designated by wimpy teachers who never stood up to bullies. Liberals are wimps and were bullied in high school. BUT NOW THEY RUN THE HIGH SCHOOLS. So they're going to punish every perceived bully in the schools they run.
TooFoo| 11.15.11 @ 2:49PM
Soooo predictable.
AmSpec commenters are celebrating the bullies!
The Big E| 11.16.11 @ 9:51AM
No, we recognize that if you're going to succeed in life you're going to have to stand up for yourself. We know that if you spend all your life waiting on someone else to fix your problems they will never be fixed.
What AmSpec readers celebrate is self-reliance, not indoctrinated victimhood.
Stuart Koehl| 11.16.11 @ 10:48AM
We celebrate those who have the moxie to stand up to bullies and give them one right in the nose. Whereas you are nothing but an enabler of Scut Farkis and Grover Dill.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 6:59PM
It's OK to punish bullies---the problem is they don't. What they do punish is the people who try to defend themselves.
Stuart Koehl| 11.15.11 @ 1:19PM
Raising nerf kids, are we?
Rainy| 11.15.11 @ 4:33PM
COTicket - thank you. Yours is one of the sanest comments I've seen on this website lately. And you are absolutely right - for how much people here rant about the left wing media and its bias, this website is very good at telling half the story. The half that appeals to its own 1950's, white, straight, conservative mindset.
Stuart Koehl| 11.16.11 @ 11:28PM
By "straight, white, conservative mindset", I assume you mean civilized society?
The Big E| 11.16.11 @ 9:48AM
Kids do not commit suicide because of bullying. They commit suicide because they've been taught "self-esteem" instead of "self respect."
They commit suicide because they have taught to never, never stand up for themselves; that everything wrong in their life somebody else's responsibility; and that human life has no value or meaning anyway.
Oh, and they hear from people like YOU that anyone who disagrees with the orthodoxy referred to above is a "hateful bigot," so don't ever disagree, just nod you head, keep your mind closed, and wait for somebody else to solve all your problems.
TrueBlue| 11.16.11 @ 11:25AM
Dealing with bullies is easy anyway. You either defend yourself and prove you're not worth the bother, or you take the hit and act like it didn't phase you. Looking bored after taking a good hit tends to phase people pretty well. Actually made a couple friends that way.
Either way the way to solve bullying is not this pansy psychiatric attempt people are making. You deal with it, you grow up. There is a reason that suicides have been going up at a pretty steady rate in the last 40 years, and it's not because people aren't in touch with their feelings enough.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 7:03PM
That's not a properly done psychiatric attempt. Properly trained psychiatrists know the importance of "setting limits," like Stuart bashing that kid.
My suggestions regarding litigation simply revolve around the idea of hurting people in ways that will hurt them the most, and get them to stop.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 6:06PM
The problem with bullying today is that today's parental generation are raising psychopaths.
For example, my son was born with microtia of the Right ear. He is also bright, very athletic, incredibly strong, has a superb punch, and is quite tall for his age. He is being homeschooled because I don't want dead little psychopaths littering the schoolyard.
Kids today are being raised, for the most part, by Liberal vermin or uncivilized scum of other types.
THKrupp| 11.16.11 @ 8:25PM
HAhaha your son sounds like my little brother except he was the dumb one in our family. Think Lennie in Of Mice and Men. By 6th grade he was 6 foot tall and could grow a full beard. My parents sent him to private school because they didnt feel he was getting a good education. He was held back a year and he was a giant compared to all the suburban yuppie kids he went to school with. He was constantly in trouble at the private school for knocking around the frail yuppie kids. They had never "played" with a redneck farm kid before. I think he broke the arms of at least two kids while playing basketball with them. I remember going to pick him up after school one night and he was working over some kid in the play ground...I honked the horn and he helped the kid up and patted him on the head and came running. He took over the family farm now hes richer than either of his two college educated brothers lol.
Dick Nome| 11.15.11 @ 8:35AM
Problem now is dyslexic fat bullies with ADD and allergies to peanuts who need to eat gluen free diets. Moochelle will fix it all.
Appleby| 11.15.11 @ 8:37AM
I was bullied in sixth grade because I was more intelligent and well-travelled than my classmates, was not the daughter of a farmer, did not want to get married to a farmer and settle down on a farm, and DID want to travel the world, be a lawyer and race sports cars -- in 1961. In other words, I Did Not Know My Place.
My Daddy, who did not graduate from high school because of the Great Depression, advised me to choose the ringleader and beat the crap out of her, which I did, and was no longer bullied but was sent to a Child Psychiatrist to find out why I Did Not Know My Place. I refused to speak to the CP at all, which I do very well to this day, and went through high school without any friends -- and lo and behold, when I went away to Bible College, the whole bullying thing vanished into the air. The bullying thing happens in government school because government school is a Procrustian Bed, and the only way to survive it is to outlast it. Think of government school as jail, and serve your time and deal with the long-term cons whatever way you can -- and keep your mind on the fact that the problem is not with you, and the sentence will end; you will be paroled and released into reality on a date certain, and all you have to do until then is survive. Do not join them; do not wish to join them. Survive them.
Those who adapt to the jailhouse end up Occupiers.
R Martin| 11.15.11 @ 9:01AM
Excellent. In the good old days those of us who grew up in the era you describe knew that the only way to deal with bullies was to fight them. Sometimes you won, sometimes you didn't. But all bullies soon learned that you would always fight back and moved to easier targets. The problem today is that fighting is banned and bullying persists.
Just curious, did you ever race that sports car and, if so, how aggressive were you?
THKrupp| 11.15.11 @ 10:52AM
What you dont understand is that its not just one bully. What would you do if the entire school turned on you? What if every day you had to fight someone different. The more you fought back the more it encouraged the bullying. I dont think you have any clue what goes on. When I was in school we wanted someone to fight back. That way it gave us someone to focus on. They might win one fight but we would gang up on them and sooner or later the bullee would know his or her place.
Stuart Koehl| 11.15.11 @ 1:21PM
I learned to live with it. I fought when I had no choice, became master of the lethal put-down, worked hard and got the hell out of there as soon as I could. I certainly didn't whine to my parents, who, I assure you, would have been most unsympathetic.
THKrupp| 11.15.11 @ 2:20PM
Youre right...that's one way of doing it. Although you are assuming that a certain number of kids who arent as self confident as you are going kill themselves as we have seen. It might be better that as a society we reject that kind of behavior. We dont accept it from adults why would we accept it from teenagers? There's nothing really honorable or edifying about setting up mini lord of the flies societies in every school. It doesn't teach anyone anything. People that act that way as adults are ostracized or punished, yet everyone seems to think that its some kind of rite of passage.
The Big E| 11.16.11 @ 9:55AM
"We dont accept it from adults why would we accept it from teenagers?"
We don't? Have you noticed who the hell is running the country right now? The ultimate schoolyard bully.
THKrupp| 11.16.11 @ 6:57PM
Actually he seems more like one of the kids that got bullied a lot as a child
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 6:08PM
Funny thing was, when I got away from the high school idiots and went off to Texas Christian (and away from my asshole parents), suddenly I was getting dates and getting laid.
High School Sucks, as does public school of all types.
TrueBlue| 11.16.11 @ 11:32AM
That's only an issue when the majority are too scared to do anything and you know it Krupp. If kids had a clue how to socialize instead of hiding in their homes all day long and made friends then your little crowd of guys looking for a fight would be outnumbered. Had that issue when I was in high school with groups of guys going around looking for a fight too. Get your own group to back you up and that guy pushing you finds out really quick he doesn't have his crew backing him up because your group is bigger. Then the fights become one on one.
THKrupp| 11.16.11 @ 5:58PM
It wasnt just a group it was the entire school. I went to a high school that had around 250 kids in it. Either you were in or you were out. There werent all that many cliques or small groups. The people that were in made life a living hell for the people that werent. There wasnt any fighting back because if you did that just put a target on your back. It wasnt a couple of bullies that did this...it was the entire school.
Stuart Koehl| 11.15.11 @ 1:04PM
Your father was a wise and discerning gentleman. As you can see from my post, your situation and mine were much the same, and our resolution of the problem almost identical.
THKrupp| 11.15.11 @ 8:58AM
Mr. Nachman seems to not quite understand the extent of bullying. I was in high school 20 years ago but it went way beyond calling someone a wimp or making fun of their name. The kids that were selected for bullying had no friends at all in school. They might have had friends before being selected but after someone started making fun of them all their friends would desert them just so that they wouldnt have to bear the same consequences. It was a systematic approach to bullying. Here is some of the things we did to them. Push pennies across the gym floor. Push a twinkie around the toilet seat with their nose, if it fell in they would have to go in after it with their mouth. Bind their hands and feet while they were naked and throw them out in the hallway at class change. Spit in their hair or face as they walked past in the hall. Spit in their hair as they sat in class. Pee in their locker. Break their lock off their locker and steal or destroy all their stuff. Find their car after school and dump sticky liquids on it. Push them and shove them constantly. If they fight back beat the crap out of them. There were certain kids targeted. They were systematically isolated and even if they had friends they couldnt fight the rest of the school. Im not proud at all of what I did. I dont think the author has any idea of what he is talking about. The teachers and principal would ignore this sort of stuff as it was boys being boys. I dont really think they fully understood what was going on.
Stuart Koehl| 11.15.11 @ 1:08PM
"Mr. Nachman seems to not quite understand the extent of bullying. I was in high school 20 years ago but it went way beyond calling someone a wimp or making fun of their name. The kids that were selected for bullying had no friends at all in school."
So? What's new? That was my situation. Beat the crap out of the bully, even if you get the crap beaten out of you in turn. They'll leave you alone afterwards.
Why? Bullies act the way they do because they can get away with it. When you fight back, it takes away all the fun for them.
As for telling adults (parents or teachers), we would rather have died, because that only made things worse: we were crybabies and tattletales. Besides, you can't have an adult around all the time to watch out for you (and when you are an adult, you can't have a cop around all the time to watch out for you, unless you want to live in a police state). So, at the end of the day, you have to decide to stand up for yourself, alone if you have to.
Watch "High Noon" first--it can be inspirational.
THKrupp| 11.15.11 @ 2:28PM
Im not saying that you shouldnt fight back or that your parents should do all your fighting for you. I dont understand why behavior like this from teenagers is acceptable to so many people. The teachers would see this stuff going on and just ignore it. Actually I had one teacher call us on it. We were in the bleachers chanting some derogatory slogan as the kid it was aimed at walked past. He didnt even look up. He just shuffled across the gym trying his best to be invisible as over 50 kids were calling him something.The girls gym teacher came over and yelled at us that it was completely disrespectful and she was very disappointed. We all shut up. If more teachers would have been willing to do that it wouldnt have been out of control as it was.
The Big E| 11.16.11 @ 10:01AM
"I dont understand why behavior like this from teenagers is acceptable to so many people."
Don't you understand? it's not. It wasn't then and it isn't now. The difference is not in acceptance of the behavior, the difference is in the response to it. If bullying proliferates, it is specifically BECAUSE kids are not ALLOWED to deal with the issue themselves. They're not ALLOWED to fight back anymore. They've been taught/indoctrinated from day 1 in school that (a) their problems are somebody else's fault, (b) they cannot solve them on their own, and (c) they have to have some higher, governmental or quasi-governmental authority fix their problems for them.
Why is it a surprise that bullying proliferates in an environment like that?
Bullies are, and have always been, inherently cowards. Stand up them, show them you're not afraid, and they will leave you alone because there will be easier targets. But today, kids are NOT ALLOWED to stand up to them. The solution is forbidden, therefore the problem grows worse.
Stuart Koehl| 11.16.11 @ 10:53AM
There is also the unwillingness of those in authority to subject themselves to possible litigation. It's better to look the other way than to intervene and get sued (probably by the bully's father).
Then there is the lamentable tendency towards moral equivalency: the bully and the bullied are equally at fault, and both are sanctioned equally. But this ends up penalizing the victim, since the bully really isn't intimidated by official authority, while the victim feels crushed by being punished and having done nothing wrong.
That's why these things have to be settled by the kids themselves, and not by the grown-ups. And when the kids are grown-ups in their turn, they'll have the equipment they need to deal with adult bullies--at home, in the neighborhood, at work and in the world.
The Big E| 11.16.11 @ 10:59AM
Bingo!
THKrupp| 11.16.11 @ 6:35PM
The point I was trying to make is that many people here make it seem like it is some kind of rite of passage that helps people to grow. Thats probably true when its just one bully that you have to overcome. The situation in many places is not just one guy making your life miserable. Its almost a systematic approach to breaking the target down. Where I went to school it was the majority of the school vs a few outcasts. I think that is what is happening in the cases where teenagers end up commiting suicide. The administration almost enables these situations because of the lack of will among the teachers and staff. If its just one kid thats stealing your lunch money and calling names you are right its no big deal. The individual should find a way to handle it. Thats not the case in many of these tragedies.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 7:19PM
As I noted, the problem is that in most cases, the bully is willing to break the law, and the kid defending himself cannot, because he is inhibited in directly defending himself by the same antibullying statutes.
Otherwise, beatings are fine. Mr. Krupp, you sound fine but your school is the reason my kids are homeschooled. When they are older, it will be martial arts and eventually gunnery practice for them. People tell me that I am depriving them of "socialization." Nonsense. They have friends they play with and horses to ride. But I have no desire to introduce them to you as a kid, you understand.
As I tell them, most people don't get anywhere in life at all, and really aren't worth meeting. I will teach them how to deal with people who will threaten them, but I see no purpose in potential torment, for example, over my son's microtia. Adults won't tease him like kids would, and he's immensely big and powerful, and why should he have to go through the trauma of beating up an asshole as a kid? Plenty of time for that as an adult.
THKrupp| 11.16.11 @ 7:47PM
I agree with you, if I had kids I would never send them to school where I went. Supposedly its very different now but I wouldnt want to take a chance. it wasnt the best education either. I struggled to come up to speed in college in areas like chemistry and what not. The thing is when I went there you could fight back. There was always a fight somewhere. Most of the kids had a shotgun or two in their truck although no one ever got shot except for hunting accidents. It wasnt a liberalized situation at all. It was more like Lord of the flies or a Mad Max movie.
THKrupp| 11.16.11 @ 6:54PM
After reading about the advice several people said that their mothers gave them. I cannot imagine many mothers giving the same advice. I think of my sister in law and what advice she would give on the first day of school I can assure you it would not be the same. Thats got to have an effect on kids willingness to stand up for themselves.
Zilla | 11.16.11 @ 10:02AM
I had a friend in 9th grade who was targeted exactly as you describe. One day after school, a group of older boys threw him into a big puddle and then pissed on him. He went home when it was over and shot himself in the head. He was 15. Rest in peace, David, even after 20 years, you are not forgotten.
People who did bother to get to know him when he was alive learned that he was a smart funny kid. The turnout for his funeral was huge, so strange that so many showed up to bid goodbye to a kid who was tormented by so many - and nobody cared until he was dead.
I generally believe that one should stand up to bullies, but there's a line, and sometimes it DOES require adult intervention. You can't just look the other way when crimes are being committed against children, if the perpetrators were adults, it would be all over the news.
Stuart Koehl| 11.16.11 @ 10:54AM
Been pissed on. Got even, got over it.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 6:19PM
What I learned was this: I had 821 kids in my high school class. I keep up with one of them moderately closely, and 3 or 4 less closely. None of them have any impact on my life now, although they made my life a living hell then.
I keep up with two of my college classmates at Texas Christian. Nice people, but if they went away, de nada.
I keep up with one Med school classmate closely, and one less closely. That guy is a friend of mine.
I keep up with no one from my residency class, although the classes above and below have 3 total colleagues that I can call if necessary for a Consult.
I make decent money in a very socially worthy job, have great kids and a wonderful wife.
As I tell my kids: "remember, the vast majority of people will do nothing special with their lives. Work hard and try to accomplish your goals, and I'll do my best to help you.
But what jerks think, who cares?"
The majority of the guys who bullied me in high school are getting the shit kicked out of them in this economy. I am one of the higher paid specialists in my field in the US, and no one I meet has a more socially worthy medical job. Period.
That being said, kids engage in worse asshattery these days than I did. When I was a kid, I was rescuing old ladies from blizzards and the doors were unlocked in Niles, Illinois, just outside Chicago. Goodness knows nowadays.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 7:07PM
And if any of the high school bullies that tormented me asked for my help today I would laugh and tell them to screw off. I am no longer 95 pounds and 5 feet 2. I do read the Facebook pages of my high school and laugh about the assholes struggling. I HATED most of them.
TrueBlue| 11.16.11 @ 11:40AM
Not to sound like a jerk, but if so many people liked the kid then why did none of them defend him? That sounds like a failure of his "friends" to do anything to help him.
I'm not saying that everyone should have to be on their own for dealing with bullies. If someone is your friend then you should have their back, that's how you deal with groups of bullies, you get more people on your side that have a backbone.
But as things stand in schools now having a backbone just gets you in as much trouble, if not more, than the coward(s) that start the whole thing. Thank the hippy generation for getting into politics (ahhhh the irony).
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 7:30PM
What that poor kid needed was the lecture I give to adolescent patients who are tormented:
"These vermin are important in your life now, but in 4 years they will cease to have significance when you go away to college.
"The majority will become nothing at all, whereas you, with sufficient hard work, will do quite well.
"When that happens, throw a $100 into a mud puddle and watch the scum leap into it to return it to you, (to get in your good graces) to have you say---'naw, you can keep it. Doesn't matter much to me.'
"These bullies are shadows in your life.They will matter not when you are an adult. One of the bullies of my childhood is on my Facebook list through my school. (I rarely write on it.) He's not as well off as I am, not as successful.
Trust me, work hard enough, you will be able to tell those scum to screw off."
Then I put them on Prozac and make sure they get a therapist. But the critical thing is to point out that the bullies will mean nothing in a few years.
But, as for the threatening boyfriend of Mr Lee's daughter, he needed a brutal going over in a dark place, one that left him bereft of manhood for a while.
Sean| 11.15.11 @ 9:02AM
The government wants to make bullying illegal. And by bullying they mean saying bad things about people. I think its really going to far having the schools and police monitoring what school children say about each other on Facebook. Then we have the issue of parents raising mentally damaged kids who commit suicide and then they blame the other kids for being mean to them.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 6:56PM
The problem is that it is very likely to make defense illegal but not stop the bullying.
But I am very surprised that the threat of lawsuit for failure to follow a judge's order was not pursued by Mick Lee. I mean, criminals are criminals. But professionals are supposed to follow court orders when the safety of children is at stake.
Another thing to do to the security head was to pour diesel fuel into his car's engine. Or slash the tires. Or screw with his brakes.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 6:58PM
Or break his fucking windshield and have him take you to court on it.
THKrupp| 11.16.11 @ 7:23PM
We used to throw balloons filled with atrazine or round up into peoples lawns...concentrated atrazine will sterilize the soil for pretty much forever. They would have to actually have to dig up the soil and replace it with new if they wanted grass to ever grow again in those spots.
THKrupp| 11.16.11 @ 7:29PM
Then of course there is the perennial favorite of smashing mailboxes....stacking haybales in a wall on country roads at night and covering them with a dark tarp...pushing peoples cars over parking blocks so that they would be hung up on the blocks when they would try to leave.
Appleby| 11.15.11 @ 9:05AM
I was bullied by girls. So my advice applies mainly to girls, although sending your sons to martial arts training would not be a bad idea.
My point is that kids who are bullied are different, and the school operates on the premise that kids want to be The Same. If you are happy with your difference, your best defence is to outlast them. Or beat the crap out of them.
Pecos Pete| 11.15.11 @ 9:27AM
Appleby: Two good posts today. Your solution "beat the crap out of them" would also work well as foreign policy.
Stuart Koehl| 11.15.11 @ 1:09PM
See my post, quoting Prof. Paul Ello of Georgetown:
"Everything you need to know about international relations you can learn on the playground by fourth grade".
TrueBlue| 11.16.11 @ 11:41AM
I love that quote.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 6:21PM
Or by reviewing the childhood of Andrew Wiggin.
Bill| 11.15.11 @ 9:19AM
Appleby's post, highlighting her observation that bullying is a public school phenomenon only mitigated by waiting it out, is not quite on the mark; bullying happens in private schools, too, except in (a lot of) private schools it's considered OK to develop some ability to fight back and then to fight back as hard and as often as you can until you vanquish your enem(ies) as humiliatingly as possible, in which case you attain some status, because a bully to you is most likely a bully to others, too.
In public school, to fight back, as Appleby so aptly points out, is Not To Fit In, a great sin in the mire of Publicism in Education.
Bill| 11.15.11 @ 9:26AM
The interest of the ruling classes in bullying is yet another of the many signs that we have given society over to the pussies of the world.
Reading Karl Marlantes's book What It Is Like To Go To War, which contains sizeable sections on the way society deals with the average citizen who goes to war (or fails to deal with him/her), points out that our society has delegitimized the Mens' Club, which used to be a place were men could show boys how to be socialized properly, and Womens' Clubs (c0mposed of most women, who, after all, in the day, bore children and therefore had their own womens' issues that men could never be privy to), where the adults could find community and the children who observed them had adult figures whose dignity they could aspire to.
Unfortunately, in the current day, we have "play dates" (what a concept!) and no way for adults to share their adulthood and find community. We're all far too close together.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 6:22PM
Yeah, "play dates" strike me as odd, too.
THKrupp| 11.16.11 @ 7:15PM
Every time my sister in law uses that phrase I cringe. I feel sorry for my nephews. They are only 5 and their days are completely structured around activities, "play dates" and preschool. When my brothers and I were their age we were building damns in the creek and setting stuff on fire completely unsupervised for most of the day.
Harry the Horrible| 11.15.11 @ 9:54AM
I got bullied when I was kid. I a big kid, but I was smart and I liked to read more than sports or anything else.
I PO'd my dad by wimping out and he taught me fight (or else). The process would probably be called "child abuse" by the cowards who run schools these day.
I learned and I fought for my right to be left alone, bore the bruises and shiners with pride. One of my opponents didn't show up at school for three days though...
Mark MacInnis| 11.15.11 @ 9:59AM
Bullying is worse today because the boundaries of acceptable behavior are looser. Back in my day, the worst that happened was being stuck in a locker, or the dreaded swirlie (for the uninitiated, that means being held upside down by a group of 4 or 5 fellow students, and having one's head stuck in a toilet while the toilet is flushed. Occasionally, the toilet had been used prior to the swirlie. What fun.) Now, in the multi-media age of instant communication where every student has a cel-phone, access to a photo-shop equipped computer, twitter and facebook, complete character assassination and utter destruction of social reputation takes place. My granddaughter was subjected to having the rankest of porno videos modified to have her image super-imposed on the performer's face and having the resultant video posted on You-tube and facebook. Further, today, kids threatening other kids with bodily harm and social isolation isn't enough. She receives death threats daily.
And this is from girls.
Why? Because she is a Christian young lady, who, in an unguarded moment, professed her intention to stay chaste until married.
As a libertarian, I am loathe to have laws written to govern behavior. But, I am a firm believer in enacting statutes which punish parents, FINANCIALLY and LEGALLY, for egregious bullying behaviour by their children. Bullying has gone way beyond damaging some children's self-esteem to the realm of physical and psychological torture and endangerment. When that happens, we as a society can not sit idly by and pretend these are cases of 'kids being kids.'
THKrupp| 11.15.11 @ 10:20AM
Mark,
I agree with you that bullying is much different today than it was years ago. I came from a small midwestern town. I went to Church weekly and at home I was very nice and respectful. At school I was something completely different. I was one of the people that would bully others. I have no excuse for my behavior other than I wanted to fit in. My parents bore no responsibility for my actions. What would have mattered most would have been if teachers and administrators at the school would have stepped in. I was on the football team of a town that worshipped football. We could really do no wrong. Cops sent me on my way after speeding through town at 70 miles an hour. I have participated in much worse than what your niece recieved. Usually it was because someone was intelligent, quiet or different in some way. Sometimes it wasnt even that. Im not sure how or why we chose someone to isolate. I remember waiting in the parking lot of the local walmart waiting for mothers with kids and hands full of groceries. We would drive up slowly to them and spray them with those cans of party string. I remember following an old man with a walker while we were in a car and throwing pieces of pizza at him while he tried to get away from us. We were all clean cut all American boys to look at us. I was even given encouragement to become a minister after my confirmation speach. My parents had nothing to do with my actions. I have actually turned out well and am ashamed for my actions while in high school. I think what would have made the difference if someone would have paid attention to what was really going on and said something to us.
Stuart Koehl| 11.16.11 @ 10:56AM
So what changed you?
THKrupp| 11.16.11 @ 6:08PM
I dont know to be honest. I went to college and got on with my life and I never felt the need to act that way anymore. I was trying to fit in with what everyone else was doing I guess. I didnt hate any of the kids that we taunted. I didnt stand up and say anything against what we were doing because I didnt want to become the next target. It was out of control. The entire school was like this and it was just kind of expected behavior. When my brother went he said it wasnt that way at all. They had changed administrations by then and all the teachers that had been there when I was there were replaced by new teachers. I dont really know what the change was.
Stuart Koehl| 11.16.11 @ 11:33PM
So, in your school, there was no need to read "Lord of the Flies"--you guys just lived it.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 6:25PM
Dear Mark,
review with her my story, above. Let her know that those kids are vermin, and, most importantly, make sure that she, if possible, finds out who did this and documents it if possible. Their prospective future employers will want to know---especially 20 years later. Revenge is best served like Italian Ices.
JohnD| 11.15.11 @ 10:28AM
My mother was from Brooklyn, and as she buttoned up my jacket for the first day of first grade she said to me, "Listen to your teachers, but don't take any crap from anyone else." I went to school in Philadelphia (probably the bully capital of the World) and there was plenty of violence and bullying, and I was smaller than everyone else because I was only 5 years old and they were all 6, but my Mom said not to take any crap so I didn't. It ain't the size of the dog in the fight, but the fight in the dog, as my Dad says. Day one a second grader mouthed off to me, and I told him to meet me outside after school. He did, and I fought him to a draw in front of half the first grade. Never had another problem.
My Mom has been called to heaven, and I am 49 now, and I still don't take any crap - from anyone. Maybe if more women were like my Mom there wouldn't be a problem.
Stuart Koehl| 11.15.11 @ 1:10PM
"My mother was from Brooklyn, and as she buttoned up my jacket for the first day of first grade she said to me, "Listen to your teachers, but don't take any crap from anyone else." "
All Brooklyn mothers are the same. I got the same advice, verbatim, back in 1961.
JohnD| 11.15.11 @ 3:05PM
First time I got suspended for fighting, they called my Mom up to school and told her I got into a fight because a classmate had been teasing me. My Mom's nonchalant response was, "well, if the kid teased my son, no wonder he got beat up." When the Asst. Principal explained fighting was not tolerated, my Mom replied, increduluous "so if my son gets teased, what do you expect him to do?"
Bill| 11.15.11 @ 10:38AM
An interesting (apparent) contradiction, which is actually not a contradiction at all but human nature finding its expression in one way when denied expression in another, is that the trend over the past couple of generations, to suppress the boys-will-be-boys aggressive, endomorphic, war-play behavior of male children has given rise to the downfall of the Cub and Boy Scouts and the rise of bullying and street gangs.
The Big E| 11.16.11 @ 10:14AM
I see no contradiction there. It makes perfect sense.
Kevin| 11.15.11 @ 10:54AM
I was bullied as a child too. The list of differences is as long as the author's. I never once contemplated suicide. I got bigger and after administering a few bloody noses and split lips the problem went away, mostly. What's easier to change, the abilities of a few to fight back or the attitudes of the many to quit bullying?
Ed| 11.15.11 @ 11:39AM
There are also gender differences when it comes to bullying. Boys, either singly or in groups, strive to be the Top Dog in the pack. Girls, always in groups, strive to be the Queen Bees in the hive. You can punch a male bully in the nose and he will usually find easier prey. For boys (or girls) , it is a lot harder to fight the Queen Bees because there is strength in a swarm.
Stuart Koehl| 11.15.11 @ 1:13PM
So, basically, we're supposed to tell our daughters to become proud and independent individuals, but they can't stand up to a pack of stuck-up bi*ches? Cognitive dissonance, anyone? I raised two geek girls, who never worried about belonging, or cliques, or popularity, but focused instead at being good at what they did. Slowly but surely, they made friends with like-minded girls (and boys). Their last laugh will come when the prom queens and cheerleaders have to come to them when looking for a job.
THKrupp| 11.15.11 @ 2:43PM
Why are you so against someone in authority telling some jack ass to knock it off when they see one kid treating another like trash? That behavior isnt acceptable by adults but for some reason we think its good for teenagers?
Stuart Koehl| 11.16.11 @ 10:58AM
Because it's toothless. Because there won't always be someone in authority to intervene. Because it teaches kids to rely on other people to solve their problems for them.
THKrupp| 11.16.11 @ 6:16PM
Im not saying people shouldnt stand up for themselves. People in authority set the tone for the environment that they are responsible for. Im a manager at a manufacturing facility and I constantly feel the need to act a certain way and to encourage people to act a certain way towards each other to set the standard on how we treat fellow coworkers. That doesnt mean that I intervene in every issue. That just means Im trying to set the tone. Its a decent place to work, its not perfect, but for the most part people treat each other with respect. Ive worked in places where that was not the case and the difference is obvious.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 6:29PM
Disagree somewhat, Stuart. Corporal punishment by figures in authority, properly and humiliatingly applied, and appropriately chaperoned, does wonders, and should be brought back.
Kids should solve many of their own problems, but the authority should allow more defense, which they do not.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 6:46PM
To a certain degree you are right. I don't believe in verbal reprimands. I believe in public beatings. 100 whacks with a cane in front of the school auditorium should do the job.
In addition, kids should have an absolute right to self defense. The caning should be left for the incorrigible bullies.
But I homeschool my kids because most of their teachers are idiots, and I want the kids to learn well. I also don't want my son to destroy a smaller boy.
Mick Lee| 11.15.11 @ 11:38AM
Are you a fool? Look, I am highly suspicious of the real motivations of our
“betters” have for bullying. But lets get real.
Picking out the ringleader no longer works. The idea of honor is lost in these situations and has been for years.. One fight one, you fight all at the same time. Most of us are not Jason Statham or Jackie Chan and can take on a whole gang. It happens today—and it happened to me in 1971.
Now, a lot of confrontations are settled with the bully using a gun.
Conflict resolution is a joke. Try to mediate as a third person and you will likely end up a target too.
Bullies terrorize because they know they’ll get away with it. Authorities are hung up on “due process” and half baked remedies. Bullies know how to game the system. For the most part, authorities will only spring to action AFTER someone is beaten near to death, stabbed, or shot.
My own daughter was beaten by a former boyfriend who also threatened to kill her several times. We went to court and obtained a protective order which among other things dictated the boy could not come within 50 feet of my daughter. I immediately left the courthouse and presented the order to both the head of security and principle of her high school. All that happened was the head of security put the order on the corner of his desk and remarked that they would not enforce the order because: “the boy has a right to an education too”. Within a few days, it was my daughter who had to leave that high school for her own protection. She finished high school through correspondence courses; but she lost out on most of the high school experiences such as home coming, basketball games, prom and graduation. Guess who didn’t miss out.
TooFoo| 11.15.11 @ 12:40PM
Mick Lee,
How right you are about bullies "winning." I could give you numerous examples.
I am happy to see the antibullying laws going into effect. I have a brilliant son who has been bullied unmercifully, but the bullying in the past year has stopped. It stopped because the school got serious about not allowing bullying!
Stuart Koehl| 11.15.11 @ 1:18PM
Such a load of crap. When nobody's looking, your son is going to get dry-gulched. And he'll go through life knowing that he's incapable of looking out for himself. Fighting and losing is much better than constantly running away.
Take if from someone who was smartest kid in his school from kindergarten through high school.
TooFoo| 11.15.11 @ 2:53PM
Stuart, you sound like a real blowhard. Do you, by chance, have a beer gut and wear suspenders?
That's how I see you.
Stuart Koehl| 11.16.11 @ 11:04AM
Nope. As I said, when I was a kid I was short, skinny and way smarter than the other kids, so I was natural food for bullies. I got taunted and beaten regularly, until, as I related, I decided I had had enough and fought back. Lost the fight, but got a big enough piece of the other guy that he left me alone after that.
Today, I'm a little bit taller, and a little bit heavier, I have two equally brilliant daughters who just passed through high school, and watched them learn to cope with different varieties of bullies and jerks who are part of the landscape.
When my older daughter was a freshman, she was being harassed by a classmate on a regular basis. He was about 6 foot; she's still just 5 foot. One day, he said something that went over the line (I never asked what), and she kicked him in the nuts.
He not only stopped taunting her, he went on to become one of her best friends (still is, even though they're in different universities today).
I like the old, well-proven ways. Self-reliance, self-respect, self-defense pretty much render one immune to bullying.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 6:32PM
And letting the assholes know that you sleep with a machete under your pillow (in college, when dealing with a Palestinian and his scumbag friends.).
jivebomber| 11.15.11 @ 4:46PM
I may have not been one of the smartest people in class, but my parents were - they taught me values, morality, common sense. and how to not be pushed around. This enabled me to deal with those who tried to bully. To wit: Bullies were beneath me, and not worth anyone's time, but if they want a fight, let it begin here.
And, I have a last name that just begs to be ridiculed - Stein. ("Hey Frankenstein!" Where's the bolts in yer neck?") Believe me, growing up with a name like that enables you to look any of life's future calamities in the eye and scoff.
PS. After graduation, the school district won't be there to outwit or fight your opponents.
Stuart Koehl| 11.15.11 @ 1:16PM
"My own daughter was beaten by a former boyfriend who also threatened to kill her several times. "
And he's still able to walk. . . why?
"We went to court and obtained a protective order which among other things dictated the boy could not come within 50 feet of my daughter. I immediately left the courthouse and presented the order to both the head of security and principle of her high school. All that happened was the head of security put the order on the corner of his desk and remarked that they would not enforce the order because: “the boy has a right to an education too”. "
Boy, were you dumb. Did you really think the authorities would settle this problem? Man up and do it yourself.
" She finished high school through correspondence courses; but she lost out on most of the high school experiences such as home coming, basketball games, prom and graduation. "
She didn't miss anything, believe me. And she got a better education than she otherwise would have gotten.
But the whole thing is still your fault.
TooFoo| 11.15.11 @ 2:54PM
Stuart Koehl is an angry old man. A geezer and and a bully. An Archie Bunker without the charm.
Stuart Koehl| 11.16.11 @ 11:06AM
I do believe you are precisely the kind of whiny wuss that bullies love to hate. A nerf-man.
albert constantine jr| 11.15.11 @ 8:26PM
There was a time when fathers protected their daughters not with ex parte court orders, but with the perceived (or delivered) threat of real serious physical injury or death coming to a male who would do her harm. If caught, then you have the full panoply of due process rights of which Mick Lee complains.
Stuart Koehl| 11.16.11 @ 11:07AM
Precisely so. I guess that makes you a blowhard and a bully, too.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 6:34PM
Indeed. Dark alley and a K-Bar.
Or, sue the goddam school for gender insensitivity.
Or, have someone rough up the head of security. Having a testicle crushed is remarkably useful at getting a man to do his job.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 7:11PM
Suing the school is to get them to enforce the order. You should also get into communication with the young man one evening (get a PI to track his movements first), and carve him up a bit.
The Big E| 11.16.11 @ 10:39AM
So in other words, you did exactly what you advocate doing - turning to someone else to solve the problem, and it didn't work. And yet you still advocate turning to someone else to solve the problem.
I have an 11 year old daughter who is beginning to take an interest in boys. I have always been conscious of the need for me to set a proper example for her of the way a man should treat his wife and family, and I hope my wife and I have prepared her to be very selective in her choice of male companionship. Based upon the boys she's taking an interest in now, we seem to have done OK.
I am more concerned about the wrong boy, i.e. a thug, taking an interest in her and forcing himself into her life. I assure you, were that to happen to my daughter with the result being physical or sexual violence against her, the authorities would be the second place I would go, and then it would be to turn myself in.
I will not tolerate violence against my family. I have never raised my hand against my wife or threatened to, or against any other woman I have ever known. I have never raised my hand against my daughter, aside from exactly three spankings which were administered for disrespect when she was much younger.
But I do not adhere to the modern day notion that "violence never solves anything." Failure to act in the face of Evil is itself an act of Evil - and passing the buck on to someone else, looking to others to face the Evil before you and solve the problem for you - is not acting in the face of Evil.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 6:38PM
The thing to do is to do what Jerry Rice does with prosepctive dates for his daughter: take the young man into the den and remind him that if he hurts his daughter in any way, the Fuckin' 49ers are going to beat the shit out of him. Useful.
Myself, I'll take the young man into my study and just sharpen my knives while I talk to him.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 6:40PM
And discuss my days dissecting my cadaver in med school. And my interest in the treatment of chronic, debilitating pain.
Stuart Koehl| 11.16.11 @ 11:38PM
My daughters always believed I would kill whatever boys they brought home, and I guess they convinced their boyfriends it was true. In reality, I liked each and every one of them. I have no idea why my daughters thought I would kill their boyfriends, but I'm kind of glad they gave their boyfriends that impression. It saved me a lot of heartburn. Later on, I became friends with all of them, mostly because they were geeks, and Dad could get them into defense industry conferences where they could play with combat robots, flight simulators, and MILES laser tag training systems.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 6:42PM
Mick---the school should have been sued for something. Criminal charges should have been filed against the head of security of the high school. Turn their lives into a living hell.
Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 7:41PM
Mike--you need to make sure the boy has a copy of that protection order sent to schools he applies to and jobs he wants.
Dan Mathewson| 11.15.11 @ 5:03PM
I'm with Appleby and Stuart. I was bullied in school in the mid to late seventies. My dad told me to punch them in the nose. One day in fifth grade two boys were hassling me at my locker. Enough was sufficient. I got so mad I couldn't see straight. I took a wild swing and decked the ringleader; giving him a black eye. The principal said that it was a bout time I stood up for myself.
I was very pleased to see this video and what Casey Haynes did. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p-pt1H4AJw
Stuart Koehl| 11.16.11 @ 11:10AM
Oh, if only I had been that big. Casey Haynes fits into the "gentle giant" category--torment at your own risk.
Fredx| 11.15.11 @ 8:25PM
Anyone who doesn't laugh out loud at Mr. Nachmann's historical (and hysterical) observations of schoolground outrages-du-jour misses the point, both of the article and the reality. We are taking valuable school time away from math, geography and grammar, and diverting it to silly exaggerated playground squabbles, to putting condoms on cucumbers, and how not to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. If you insist on having children, take charge and don't depend on government to protect them from every damned hangnail.
The Big E| 11.16.11 @ 10:40AM
Amen.
The Big E| 11.16.11 @ 10:55AM
If children don't learn how to stand up for themselves in the schoolyard, how can they be expected to stand up for themselves in the workplace?
Bullying doesn't end in the 12th grade. Throughout adult life, we all encounter bullies. What does a child who has been taught to never stand up for themselves, to always look to someone else to solve the problem, do when the bully is their boss?
Quit and be unemployed? Sue and spend years in litigation producing nothing but an income for their lawyer (and I am a lawyer by the way)? Go to therapy for the rest of their life?
A schoolyard bully can be deterred with a good right cross, but in a work environment, when someone has adult responsibilities to support their family, that's not an option. But the principles are still the same. When you do not stand up for yourself, you paint a target on your back. When you run to others to solve your problems, they will never be solved. But when you stand up to them, when you give as good as you get, you can put a stop to it.
As I said above, I am a lawyer, and twice, I've come face to face with Judges who were, quite frankly, bullies. They loved humiliating the parties and lawyers in front of them, threatened everybody in sight, and generally thrived of the fear they engendered. But I learned that even there, I have to stand up to them (respectfully of course). In both instances, I applied the same rules I learned on the schoolyard (minus the right cross). I stood up to them, let them know in open court, on the record, and in no uncertain terms that I would not be intimidated. I nearly got myself locked up for contempt, but I never had another problem with either Judge. They moved on to weaker targets.
Stuart Koehl| 11.16.11 @ 11:12AM
Join Occupy Wall Street, and whine about the unfairness of it all?
AustinG| 11.16.11 @ 11:42AM
Come on now. In modern society kids aren't expected to be able to handle losing a soccer game played by 5 year olds with nothing at stake. How can they possibly be expected to handle taunting let alone any real traumas they might face in later life?