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Debating the Deciders

By on 11.14.11 @ 6:09AM

Are media moderators playing favorites among Republicans?

SPARTANBURG, S.C. — Rep. Michele Bachmann is a member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and, as such, was amply prepared to discuss U.S. foreign policy during Saturday night’s presidential debate at Wofford College here.

During the debate broadcast on CBS, the Minnesota Republican was first asked about Afghanistan, and signified her familiarity by name-checking Helmand Province and Kandahar, then mentioning the Haqqani Network as a major insurgent threat. Asked later about Pakistan, Bachmann discussed the importance of stabilizing the nuclear-armed nation against Islamic radicalism. Subsequently asked about the controversial use of waterboarding during interrogations of captured terrorists — which she supports, but President Obama has prohibited — Bachman cleverly quipped that the incumbent Democrat “is allowing the ACLU to run the CIA.”

All in all, Bachmann acquitted herself credibly during the event, co-sponsored by National Journal and billed by CBS as the “Commander-in-Chief Debate.” It is therefore difficult to imagine how shocking it must have been for Bachmann, her staff and her campaign’s supporters to learn that one member of the CBS News team apparently viewed her as insignificant. In an e-mail exchange, a network staffer informed CBS political analyst John Dickerson that Bachmann was interested in appearing on Dickerson’s post-debate webcast. The staffer CC’ed the message to Bachmann’s communications director Alice Stewart and when Dickerson answered, he evidently clicked “reply to all” without realizing that what he wrote would go directly to the Republican aide. Dickerson wrote: “Okay let’s keep it loose though since she’s not going to get many questions and she’s nearly off the charts in the hopes that we can get someone else.”

What Dickerson appeared to be mean by his “keep it loose” remark was that he wanted to avoid a firm commitment to have Bachmann on the webcast, as he was hoping to “get someone else” as a guest. But the part of the 29-word Dickerson e-mail that infuriated Bachmann’s team most was what looked very much like proof of a preordained decision by CBS that the candidate would not “get many questions” during the debate because she was “off the charts” — out of contention for the GOP nomination, based on her declining poll numbers. Posting the e-mail to Bachmann’s Facebook page, campaign director Keith Nahigan fumed that Dickerson’s comments were “concrete evidence confirming what every conservative already knows — the liberal mainstream media elites are manipulating the Republican debates by purposely suppressing our conservative message and limiting Michele’s questions.”

Beyond the specifics of Nahigan’s accusation as it relates to Bachmann, the “concrete evidence” certainly will be cited by supporters of several other Republican candidates who have complained that televised debates this year have been manipulated to favor certain candidates at the expense of others. These complaints cannot be dismissed as merely a case of campaigns trying to “work the refs” to obtain better coverage, because this year the debates have so clearly influenced the fortunes of GOP candidates.

Consider, for example, that Atlanta businessman Herman Cain’s candidacy got an early boost from his strong performance in the first debate of the year, May 5 in Greenville, South Carolina. Only five candidates participated in that debate televised by Fox News, but by the time of the next debate — June 13 in Manchester, New Hampshire — the debate field had expanded to seven. CNN decided to exclude former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson, who had been in the May debate on Fox, while Bachmann, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich were added. Cain was quite literally shoved aside, relegated to the far end of the stage, while Romney was at center stage, flanked by Gingrich and Texas Rep. Ron Paul. CNN explained that Johnson’s poll numbers didn’t rate his inclusion, but if polls controlled the event, Cain clearly had cause for complaint. Prior to the debate, Cain was out-polling every candidate on the stage except Romney. CNN’s own poll taken June 3-7 showed Cain tied with Gingrich for second, and yet the stage arrangements in Manchester seemed to suggest Cain was considered a marginal candidate.

Bachmann emerged from that June debate as an overnight superstar, and some conservatives suspected that the media were promoting her candidacy in order to discourage former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin from jumping into the 2012 race. Bachmann’s rise — on July 19 she peaked at 14 percent in the RealClearPolitics national poll average — was the beginning of the “flavor of the month” trend in the campaign. For much of the next several weeks, Bachmann overshadowed the rest of the field with the exception of one candidate. Former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman has been a media darling ever since his June 21 entry into the field. His poll numbers have never exceeded the statistical margin of error, but Huntsman has been included in every subsequent debate (sitting out Las Vegas last month was his choice), as though it would be unfair to question the legitimacy of the only GOP candidate to have served in the Obama administration. (“I know that Jon is the kind of leader who always puts country ahead of party,” the president said in naming Huntsman ambassador to China.)

During the third debate — Aug. 11 in Ames, Iowa, televised by Fox — the moderators clearly were trying to incite clashes between Bachmann and former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, who both were going all-out to win that week’s Iowa Republican Party straw poll. Pawlenty came out the loser in both the Thursday debate and the Saturday straw poll, and by Sunday quit the race. Meanwhile, the race had been transformed by the entrance of Texas Gov. Rick Perry, who quickly rose to become the front-runner. Perry seemed an unstoppable juggernaut until his performance in three June debates derailed his bandwagon. While most of Perry’s debate damage resulted from self-inflicted wounds, this is not to say that the manipulations of moderators were without effect. Howard Kurtz watched as the Fox News team planned for the Sept. 22 debate in Orlando, Florida, aiming to “get some fireworks going,” as Fox managing editor Bill Sammon put it.

Whether they’re accused of trying to gin up rating-friendly “fireworks” or limiting questions to a candidate they deem to have dropped out of contention, suspicions toward debate moderators are part of an ongoing erosion of the media’s credibility. Perfect fairness and complete objectivity are perhaps an impossible ideal, but when a candidate claims to have discovered “concrete evidence” of bias, it is a serious charge that merits serious consideration. Republican voters will ultimately decide their party’s nominee, despite efforts by the media elite to decide for them. And Bachmann’s poll numbers are still higher than Huntsman’s.

About the Author

Robert Stacy McCain is co-author (with Lynn Vincent) of Donkey Cons: Sex, Crime, and Corruption in the Democratic Party (Nelson Current). He blogs at The Other McCain.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (401) |

Jack in Wi| 11.14.11 @ 6:49AM

What a joke! We all know who is being left out of the debates and Why. Ron Paul consistant polls almong the top 2 against Obama in national head to head polls. He is usually in the top 3 among Republicans. He has by far the largest number of activists and small contributors. In study after study of time given for questions in the debates Ron Paul is given the least amount of time.

Ron Paul is by far the most popular fugure among the Republicans, with Independents, the young and Democrats. No Republican caan ever be elected without these votes. The controlled media has been given it's marching orders. Puff anyone but Ron Paul. He is a threat to all our special needs. They are terrified of him. That is why he was only given 90 seconds in last Saturdays debate.

The people by huge majorities agree with Dr. Paul on ending foreign aid, and getting our troops home no. They want out of our present wars and no more war with Iran, again by huge majorities. They want the Fed audited and the Federal government slashed. Dr. Paul is the only candidate who has put forth a plan of fiscal and foreign policy renewal to save this country. It is Ron Paul or ruin.

Dr. Paul and his son Rand will soon be running as a team to restore America to sanity. There winning slogan will be.

Ron and Rand for Peace, Prosperity, and Liberty.

Jack in Wi| 11.14.11 @ 7:16AM

What is even more disgusting about Saturdays debate is the way the other candidates slavishly followed the foreign policy line of the Israeli Foreign, and Propaganda ministries, with the possible, exception of Huntsman. The world is on the edge of WW3. Yey honest debate is surpressed, by the controlled media. Who runs the controlled media? The only candidate who represents most Americans on foreign policy is given 90 seconds while a bunch of hopeless, warmongering, neocons are given 59 minutes.

Yet in those 90 seconds he destroyed all the arguments of the warmongering stooges and overwhelmingly was winning the after debate online poll. CBS Immediatly pulled the poll.

The leaders of Germany, France and the USA have all been caught talking about their boss behind his back. Natanyahu has been called a horrible liar by Merkel, Sarkosy, and Obama. What do you think GW Bush really thinks about Sharon, and Netanyahu?

It is a sad day when Bush decided to turn Middle East Policy over to the Neocons. It is time to elect the only man who will take it back. It is Ron Paul or ruin.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 7:38AM

Who runs the "controlled media", Jack???

The Jews, of course!!! Isn't it ALWAYS the Jews, Jack???

They control everything!!

And since you know so much more about history, let's debate!

Tim the Enchanter| 11.14.11 @ 1:44PM

They do? Where do I sign up? Do we get a choice of which tribe?

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 2:46PM

Just go to your local synagogue first and get the secret handshake. All will be revealed...

Kingofthenet| 11.14.11 @ 6:36PM

Read the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion' for the plan!

vtwin| 11.14.11 @ 6:44PM

Serial Adulterer (Gingrich) surges ahead of Serial Harasser (Cain) in CNN Poll. You gotta love those "family values."

http://politicalticker.blogs.c.....ain-drops/

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 7:11PM

Better a forgiven serial Adulterer than an unrepentant Socialist, any day.

And as to Cain~ you're making that up, as you have no idea that that garbage is even true.

Therefore, YOU'RE so called "concern" for family values is phony.

Stan| 11.14.11 @ 10:05PM

The Democrats said the same thing, better a forgiven serial adulterer like Clinton than a Republican like Dole. So we are not different than the Democrats?

albert constantine jr.| 11.14.11 @ 11:00PM

From the look I always see on hillary's face, I'm not sure I would describe him as a forgiven adulterer.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 1:42AM

Are you kidding, King? It is not apparent that you are.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 1:41AM

The password is "anatomy." Oh shit, I gave away the secret password...

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 6:36PM

Umm Tim - just to point out YOUR ignorance. Your question of choice of tribe (impling JEWISH tribe) high-lights my point. The Jews ARE one of the 12 tribes of Israel, along with the parts of the tribe of Benjamin. The other 10 tribes were lost to history. The tribe of Judah may represent Israel in history but they are NOT Israel. Merely the caretakers until the others re-appear.

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.14.11 @ 7:40AM

Attention EVERYONE. Do not respond to Jackass in Wi. All that's gonna happen is that the whole thing is gonna end up about him. Every time you go after him, it just gives him more Air Time. IGNORE HIM.

I know what you're thinking: "You're not ignoring him."
Right. But I wasn't gonna talk about his HATE. I was just gonna comment on his "REPLY" to his own comment, until I noticed that he had forgotten to mention any JEW stuff. Hence, his REPLY to himself.

That should be all that we allow him to do. Reply to himself.

I am Officially BANNING Jackass in Wi from any interaction with GOOD PEOPLE on this site. He shall, from now on, and forever more, be SHUNNED by all who walk these lands.

So let it be written. So let it be done.

Jack in Wi| 11.14.11 @ 7:52AM

Ha Ha ha. Can't answer the arguments so lets name call and lie as usual. The whole world was watching that debate and saw how we are being manipulated into another world war. There was nothing but war propaganda allowed, except for 90 seconds. Even though the vast majority of Americans want no more war. No pro war Republican has a chance to be elected. Obama is going to run as the man who got Bin Ladin and is binging the troops home. That is all right with the Republican elites. He is one of their pals who won't upset the gravy boat. Heaven forbid that they have to deal with and honest and forthright man.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 7:57AM

Speak for yourself!

Personally, I think Jack us AWESOME! Clint, too. Such naked stupidity on bold display is a rare treat, and I can't resist indulging either of these two idiots.

I can visualize them both:

Jack. Medium build. Meticulously neat. Short, brown-grey hair, combed back and slicked down. Little round eyeglasses complete the Himmler-type effect. His shirts are always starched, his pants always creased -even his pajamas. His office is painfully, obsessively neat, with floor to ceiling file cabinets. He keeps dossiers on all his friends and family, and sends back Christmas cards with corrected grammar, as well as reminders that Jesus was a Zionist.

Clint is a disheveled, overweight slob who sits in his basement amidst empty pop-corn bags and cabs of Red-Bull. When he's not robo-posting Ron Paul tracts, he's watching Internet porn. He has a detailed list of everyone who's ever dissed him, and plans for his eventual revenge. His preferred mode of dressing is baggy jeans and t-shirts with comic book heroes on them.

I love these guys; they're like family. Demented and sad members, but family nonetheless.

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 8:05AM

Dr.Reich gets ready for his date with Mitt Romney.

http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/.....ap-man.jpg

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 8:23AM

LOL!!!

See??? They always deliver!!

"Stupidity-to-Go, Clint speaking..."

They're like trained seals! Just say "Israel" and watch them start yelping and juggling beach-balls on their noses!

Seriously, folks...without fools like Jack and Clint around, would the rest of us look so smart by comparison??

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 9:08AM

Dr.Reich's The Paper Trained RINO-CINO Doggie , Who Said He Will Vote For The RINO-CINO Frontman, Mittens Romney.

We Are Being Set Up By RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.14.11 @ 9:11AM

Touche'.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 9:33AM

I know, right??

It's uncanny!

YELP-YELP-YELP!!!!

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 9:12AM

Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha !

Dr.Reich Thinks He Looks Very Fetching For Mittens Romney.

http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/.....ap-man.jpg

Stan| 11.14.11 @ 10:27AM

Clint. Jack, Doctor Right,
You three guys are obsessed with each other, daily homosexual taunts, you guys need to meet, and stop wasting everybody's time here.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 10:43AM

Ya' know, Stan...you DON'T have to read anyone's posts...

Stan| 11.14.11 @ 11:49AM

Well, Doctor, I don't read them anymore because they are always the same, I glance and hit the scroll key. From your other posts you sound too intelligent to engage in this even though it may be fun as you say. I am not advising or telling you what to do, just a suggestion.

Jack in Wi| 11.14.11 @ 1:55PM

I have never used a homosexual taunt on anyone. I state my views without getting personal in most cases. It is just that the usual goon squad takes it personally.

vtwin| 11.14.11 @ 3:16PM

No Stan, give me the banter of American Spectator comments over Doonesbury any day.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:16AM

Hey, don't forget me. Insult us all, please. Dr R is my pal....

chuck| 11.14.11 @ 10:04PM

I think you have Jack pegged. I know the type, short, walks around kind of bowed up like a snake about to strike. Intelligent, but arrogantly so. Thinks he knows more about everything than everybody else. Tells the plumber how to fix his commode, tells the electrician how to wire his house. F%^&s up all the time, but can never admit he's wrong about anything. Neighbors hate him, dogs hate him, kids hate him, wife tolerates him because he doesn't beat her up like her first husband did. To know him is to hate him. Hates kind of strong, just strongly dislike.
Clint is a definite internet porn addict. A real nutcase, wears an army field jacket even when its hot out. A loner because everyone sees there's something wrong with him. Plans on someday shooting up a Synagogue just to show them damned Joooooooooos who da boss is!
All in all a pathetic excuse for human beings.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 1:44AM

Yeah, Dr R. And they're so easy to hit---kinda like the Chuck Wepner of debates, or, even more appropriately, Little Alex's droogie "Dim."

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 6:39PM

By your condemnation are you so condemned

Jack in Wi| 11.14.11 @ 8:04AM

Dr. Wrong who is never right. Who does control the media? Who wants us in a world war in the middle of a terrible depression, that will possibly kill millions and destroy what is left of the world economy? Heaven forbid that we have an honest debate in the Republican party before we march over the cliff again.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 9:35AM

Who controls the media??

What media, Jack? Newspapers? TV? Radio? Internet?

You need to be more specific.

RCV| 11.14.11 @ 11:23AM

Tell us the answer, Jack. Is it the Jews?

Or is it that you just can't stand the reality that Americans -- Democrats and Republicans, Christians and Jews, Liberals and Conservatives -- are pretty solidly united in their support of Israel because ... it's the right thing to do?

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 11:32AM

According To American Spectator's Resident Anti-Catholic Bigot, It's The Catholics.

But Then ObamaBoy Israel Firster RCV Already Knew That.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 2:48PM

How's that Popey-Changey thing workin' out for ya' altar-boy?

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 3:13PM

Better Than Your Anti-Catholic Joisey White Trash Bigotry, Dr.Reich .

Wanna Make Somethin' Of It Gutless Punk, Dr.Reich ?

Hmmmmm Bigot Punk ?

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 3:24PM

Blasphemous!

Say 5 "Hail Marys" on your non-idolatrous Rosary Beads, do the Hokey-Pokey, and BEG for my eternal forgiveness.

Oh, and...put a fiver in Father Flanagan's "medicine" box...You know...The one he uses at the corner liquor store..? Yeah, that one. He's got "a cold" again...

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 5:50PM

Like i Said, You're An Anti-Catholic Joisey White Trash Bigotry, Dr.Reich .

Wanna Make Somethin' Of It Gutless Punk, Dr.Reich ?

Hmmmmm Bigot Punk ?

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 6:03PM

I Don't Drink

I Don't Smoke.

I Do My Road Work.

And I Train, As I Always Have.

Bring It, Mouth Fighter.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 3:26PM

Yeah.

I wanna' make somethin' of it, tough-girl.

Get your fat, bloated rear-end on a bus. Meet me at 12pm Wednesday in the Middle Of Times Square (that's in Manhattan) so I can kick your teeth in.

Coming?

I'll wait.

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 5:49PM

Last Time You Made One Of Your Gutless Coward Threats, It Was At The Sears Tower In Chicago.

You Know Where To Find Me Gutless Coward, Dr.Reich.

Come & Get Me, Cupcake

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 5:53PM

Just as I thought - all talk, and a total coward.

That's 3 times you've been called-out this week, tough-girl!

You're a joke.

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 5:57PM

I've Been Called Out By A Lot Tougher Than You, Cupcake.

The Last One Tried Out His Martial Arts Crap & Went Down For The Count In Less Than A Minute.

Bring It, Pussy With The Big Mouth.

You Know Where To Find Me All Blow & No Go Mouth Fighter, Dr.Reich.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 10:16PM

Yeah, right.

You're all talk and a big pussy.

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 10:48PM

You're All Pussy, And A Joisey White Trash, Trash Talkin' Mouth Fighter.

Show Up Or Shut Up, Cupcake.

Doctor Right| 11.15.11 @ 6:50AM

Yeah, and you hid from them, too.

Tough-girl. Big pansy.

You've been exposed by 3 different people. Go change your dress.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:17AM

Was it the guy who gave you his home address that you blew off, Clint?

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 3:27PM

...Or are you too busy traveling to Florida so Teufelheunden can kick the crap out of you?

Yeah, we didn't forget, pansy. He called you out, and you wussed-out.

tough-girl...

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 5:47PM

You Know Where To Find Me Gutless Coward Joisey White Trash Anti-Catholic Bigot Punk.

Still Hidin' In Joisey,Gutless Puke Punk ,Dr.Reich ?

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 1:49AM

Actually, Clint, I don't. You don't show up for meetings at Valley Forge apparently, guys who have had serious abdominal surgery give you their home address and invite you over to go mano-a mano and you refuse to show up, G-d knows you are too much of a pussy to show up on MY home turf for the next 5 months---actually, you talk a great game, but are a complete pussy.

I'm trying to decide whether it would be more appropriate to turn you over to my wife to beat up or my 8 year old son, if necessary. You are such a predictable idiot I'd hate for you to be seriously hurt.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 1:45AM

Dr R---Don't you mean his poopy changey thing?

Jack in Wi| 11.14.11 @ 2:08PM

The vast majority of Americans want all foreign ended. Who does control the main stream media? I am asking the question. You and Dr. Wrong gave us the obvious answer.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 2:49PM

I agree!

End ALL foreign!

RCV| 11.14.11 @ 3:01PM

How do "the Jews" manage to do that, Jack? And how come we non-Jews are so dumb we let ourselves be misled? Why can't we get it through our thick heads that DOCTOR Ron Paul is right and that we've just been seeing things wrong all our lives? Did "the Jews" who taught us at University implant something in our gentile brains that made us love them even though we shouldn't since they killed our Lord, as Father Coughlin often reminded us?

Mike D.| 11.14.11 @ 3:37PM

RCV, does this answer your question?

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:27AM
I know more about history and current events then anyone on this site including the editors

Ooop's, theres that sentence starting with an "I" again!

chuck| 11.14.11 @ 10:10PM

LOL.

I just love that! Definitely a classic.

What a pompous ass.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 1:51AM

Jack--for a GENIUS, you tak a lot wid no spellin or gram.

Dr Right---I like Thai food too much to "end all foreign." But the answer to the media question, like the money question, goes back to the evil Joooooooooooos!

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 6:49PM

Jack, I would say the Globalist elites control the media. Ethnicity or country of origin is irrelevant -it's the mindset that matters. I do agree with your main points on Ron Paul though.

Nancy in NC| 11.14.11 @ 7:57AM

And your attitude (along with Mr. Paul's and his supporters) is exactly why Paul won't be the nominee.

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 6:52PM

How do you suppport an inane statement like that Nancy - Voting for a candiadte based on some emotional response instead of facts and his stance on the issues. That is real intelligent.

Andrea| 11.14.11 @ 8:10AM

What debates?

Jack in Wi| 11.14.11 @ 8:21AM

I am off to work in soup kitchens and food pantries today and will be too busy to respond much. You an all lie and BS to your hearts content. Shalom.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 9:35AM

Saint Jack...saving the world, one Aryan at a time...

Mike D.| 11.14.11 @ 10:59AM

You know, theres kind of a unwritten rule on message boards and it goes like this:

When one constantly has to post their unproven "accomplishments", or patronizes themselves by posting what they do in their personal lives or expounds on their vast educational or life experiences to somehow reflect a glorified opinion of themselves on to other posters it generally means one thing. They are living vicariously through a self-created personality that has nothing to do with the real person creating the posts. In other words, they are the opposites of the persona they are trying to portray. In short, they a have meaningless and unaccomplished life and they are in effect, FULL OF SHIT!

Drunken Sailor| 11.14.11 @ 11:35AM

Great nose Mike!

Mike D.| 11.14.11 @ 11:39AM

And, they always start sentences with "I".

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 12:41PM

Kind of like some clown who call's himself "Doctor..?"

Just sayin'...

chuck| 11.14.11 @ 10:12PM

Shove your "shalom" you damned anti-Semite!

Jew-hating Jack tries to mask his ugly Antisemitism by ended his posts with "shalom".

We ain't buying it!

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 1:53AM

Yeah, sure. Soup kitchens, etc. "You an all lie."

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.14.11 @ 10:05AM

"Why do we fall?" It's a great line in the Batman Begins movie. The young Bruce Wayne is asked by his Father, after being rescued from an old well. And, later on, as the adult Bruce Wayne, is lifted from his burning mansion.

"Why do we fall? So we can pick ourselves up." Wise words, indeed.

In that vein, allow me to ask a question: Why do we go to the LEFT'S Disciples in the Media, for our Debates? Why is CNN and MSNBC and NBC the ones running OUR Debates?

In 2008 the Democrat Presidential Field REFUSED to participate in a Black Caucus Sponsored Debate, on FOX. Apparently, they were afraid of actually being asked a PERTINENT question, and terrified that it might be accompanied by a FOLLOW UP question. (Plus, they weren't about to be told by a buncha Blacks, where they were gonna go. THEY tell Blacks where to go, what to do, and where to live. Not the other way around.)

So, why do we do it? Why do we prostrate ourselves before those who wish us ill? David Gregory. Frank Scheifer. The Islamist's Chief Apologizer at ABC - Christian Amanpour - the Arab Broad with the Jewish Husband, and the Christian name. Or, any of the Island of Misfit Toys, at MSNBC.

Why can't we learn? Why must we always be "The Stupid Party"? There's no shame in having an Obvious response, to an Obvious situation. If you're a Chicken Farmer, you don't get a Fox, to guard the Hen House.

We've got to stop playing by a separate set of rules, from the ones our Opponents are using. The 911's #1 Conclusion was this: "They were at WAR with us, and we were NOT at WAR with them." It's as simple as that.

I propose a total Blackout of these Liberal Newscasts. Unless they're gonna get a BALANCED cast of participants on their shows, and NOT just coming from their own BIAS, I would tell my people to tell their people, to STICK IT. We don't need them. They need US.

They all wanna be the next Woodward and Bernstein. They all wanna get the next Katie Couric/Sarah Palin GOTCHA interview. They can't, unless we let them.

Let's wake up, shall we?

Oldefarte| 11.14.11 @ 11:02AM

I have proposed for years a simple 'total blackout' of sorts by sane readers/viewers, by means of simple surveying methods used. If everyone as disgusted as some of us are as the MSM's liberalized/subversive tactics [aka Chicago Ways] of un-news reporting; then they should/could solve the problem by simply cnacelling their subscriptions to their locally received newspapers, and by viewing FOX solely. This will cause subscription revenue-income to decrease to a bankrupting level for most of them and thereafter cause them to financially go out of business. Readers can obtain their news alternatively from the numerous web/internet sites today that are filled with conservatively oriented news and events of interest. Most local newspapers receive their news stories from AP/NYT news wire services that are generated by these liberal writers/editors, and are not written by local sources. When everyone is reading their POE-DUNK GAZETTE, a Krugmanish writer has initiated most of the stories/articles being read in POE-DUNKVILLE, USA. It's easy to put a stop to......it just requires the courage to do so!!!!!!!

MikeBee| 11.14.11 @ 3:56PM

Tim,
You're absolutely right! It's time to flip the tables. Instead of a liberal network setting the table, and inviting whom they want to invite, which means, the people they believe would lose to Obama, let's turn things around. Let the Republican Party hold Republican candidate debates, and the Republican Party will invite news media to ask questions. Those news media members who are not fair and balanced will not be invited. Period. If no network wants to cover the debates under those rules, then simply hold them on Fox News, or on C-SPAN. Or, put them on the internet, for everyone with a computer to see and hear. Those who CARE about the debates will tune in, which will include all those Republicans who will be voting in the primaries.

We've all known that the liberal media have been choosing candidates, for a long time. Look at how they fawned over John McCain when he was in the primaries. BOTH times. The liberal media did everything they could to try to get McCain to beat W during the primaries before W's second election, but the people prevailed.

It's long past time to change the rules so that things will be in our favor, at least during the primaries. They ARE our primaries.

vtwin| 11.14.11 @ 10:33AM

What did we learn this weekend from the Republicon foreign policy debate? With the exception of Ron Paul and Jon Huntsman the field is decidedly pro-torture and pro-war.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 12:42PM

Water-boarding is NOT torture.

If you think it is, you're extremely gullible.

vtwin| 11.14.11 @ 1:39PM

"Following World War II war crime trials were convened. The Japanese were tried and convicted and hung for war crimes committed against American POWs. Among those charges for which they were convicted was waterboarding." -- Senator John McCain

Drunken Sailor| 11.14.11 @ 1:54PM

Senator McCain should also admit that 1,000's of our own service members voluntarily went through water boarding as part of their SERE training. Him included.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 2:51PM

So?

John McCain is NOT the arbiter of truth. Half the time he doesn't even know where he is.

Water-boarding is NOT torture.

vtwin| 11.14.11 @ 3:43PM

McCain unfortunate senility aside, we as a nation used to consider waterboarding to be a crime. But that was before Nazi sympathizer Prescott Bush’s grandsons enter the White House.

"After World War II, we convicted several Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American and Allied prisoners of war. At the trial of his captors, then-Lt. Chase J. Nielsen, one of the 1942 Army Air Forces officers who flew in the Doolittle Raid and was captured by the Japanese, testified: "I was given several types of torture. . . . I was given what they call the water cure." -- Evan Wallach, JAG, Nevada National Guard

MikeBee| 11.14.11 @ 10:05PM

Evan Wallach is a Democrat-appointed judge, first by Bill Clinton, then moved up to Appeals Court judge by Obama. What you quote is an article written by him, supported by a couple of WWII POWs. However, the convictions of Japanese military of war crimes against humanity and of prisoner abuse never cited waterboarding. The crimes that Japanese military were convicted of were killing civilians en masse, including the killing of Chinese civilians, Philipino civilians, Guam civilians, and Korean civilians; the forced starvation of civilians, the slaughtering of POWs (done because the Japanese discovered, to their dismay, that there were 70,000 POWs, instead of the 30,000 they thought they would have); pushing POWs off cliffs for fun; raping female civilians; setting up brothels, where captured women were forced to provide sex for the soldiers; and performing chemical and biological experimentation on POWs. The Japanese were not convicted of war crimes for waterboarding POWs.

vtwin| 11.15.11 @ 2:27AM

Testimony given before the International War Crimes Trials in Shanghai, China on January 1946

"Well, I was put on my back on the floor with my arms and legs stretched out, one guard holding each limb. The towel was wrapped around my face and put across my face and water poured on. They poured water on this towel until I was almost unconscious from strangulation, then they would let up until I'd get my breath, then they'd start over again... I felt more or less like I was drowning, just gasping between life and death." -- LT. Chase J. Nielsen A captured U.S. airmen who flew in the Doolittle Raid.

Why did the lieutenant testify about his water-boarding experience at the hands of the Japanese at a war crimes trial?

MikeBee| 11.15.11 @ 8:54AM

vtwin,
They were supposed to testify about their experiences. DUH! However, the U.S. NEVER mentioned waterboarding in the war crimes that Japanese soldiers were accused of (in fact, we may have learned how to do it from the Japanese). Soldiers also testified that the waterboarding procedure CAUSED NO PAIN; that, all that happened was that the sensation that they were dying would scare them. But, they would NOT die. So, during same soldiers' testimonies, you learn that waterboarding is a very effective psychological interrogation method. It causes NO PAIN, only making the candidate THINK that he is dying, when he is not. Torture causes pain. Period. Like dragging meat hooks down someone's side, which was done to Christians in the Roman empire days. Or, jamming bamboo underneath someone's fingernails. THAT'S torture.

The Japanese war crimes convicted Japanese military of killing people who were either conquered or captured; of using them, while alive, for chemical and biological experimentation; in one case of dissecting a POW while alive (he thought they were going to fix his wounds); of feeding POWs rotten food, and giving them latrine water to drink; and of slaughtering POWs when the U.S. soldiers drew near, so that their treatment of POWs wouldn't be discovered. Waterboarding was never mentioned in the charges that Japanese soldiers were convicted of.

My father endured 3 1/2 years of imprisonment at the hands of the Japanese, in Los Banos prison camp in the Philippines. He never even mentioned waterboarding as maltreatment. His concerns were centered around staying alive, and around getting enough nourishment to continue to exist.

vtwin| 11.15.11 @ 2:55PM

You appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what is or is not considered permissible as evidence, physical or testimonial, in a criminal trial. This tribunal, as any court, would not allow the “experiences” of Nielsen as a POW as testimonial evidence with the exception of Nielsen’s “experiences” that pertain to the matter before the court, in this case war crimes. The prosecutor called Nielsen to give evidence of war crimes as a witness to “what [the Japanese] called water cure” and we know the tribunal allowed Nielsen testimony because it is part of the trail record.

So, your only argument must be that the tribunal allowed, but dismissed as a war crime, Nielsen testimony on being “water cure[d]” because of a lack of PAIN but convicted the Japanese on other evidence of PAIN? Well, Evan Wallach a Federal Court Judge, confirmed in a unanimous vote in the Senate, and considered “one of the nation's foremost experts on war crimes,” whom you dismissed as a partisan hack, would disagree with you.

MikeBee| 11.15.11 @ 6:12PM

Vtwin,
You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the difference between testimony in a war crimes court, and conviction by same court. I'm sure that a LOT was said during the war crimes trials that was decided NOT to be included in the conviction of war crimes. They had plenty of evidence of war crimes against the Japanese, ALL of it far worse than waterboarding. I don't see why you don't understand that killing a POW is far worse than waterboarding him. They chose not to bother about waterboarding, but to convict the Japanese soldiers of war crimes that were, indeed, crimes against humanity, even during wartime. The U.S. and other nations apparently learned from the Japanese about waterboarding, and began using the technique in their own interrogations of POWs.

Evan Wallach is a partisan Democrat, and the fact that you don't see any reason to, at least, raise an eyebrow of suspicion about anything he says tells me that you, also, are a partisan hack. Your opinions are welcome here, but, if you wish to be believed when you state your opinions, you need to begin to develop a modicum of common sense. And, you need to reveal your sources, when they may be questionable. It would have given you far more credibility to state both that Wallach was considered by many to be an expert on war crimes, and that he was a partisan Democrat. But to baldly claim that he's an expert, and to believe everything he says, without even a modicum of suspicion, tells more about you than it does about the issue under discussion.

Conclusion: I don't know why the war crimes court chose NOT to include waterboarding in the list of war crimes that the Japanese were guilty of. You and I are left to guess the reason(s).

It seems that, if one were to dream up an interrogation technique that, while being very effective, would NOT harm the victim in any way, or kill him/her, waterboarding would be the perfect answer. No pain, no death, but confession occurs. Very effective interrogation technique. Something that every Democrat should be able to get behind and support, especially since so many other interrogation techniques involve hurting or maiming the person being questioned, while waterboarding does not.

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 7:17PM

Just when I think you might be capable of making an intelligent post you come out with a nonsensical statement like "waterboarding is not torture" (repeat it twice at least). If waterboarding is not torture than nothing is. Interesting that Wikipedias article on it starts off with the phrase "Waterboarding is a form of torture... "

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 1:55AM

My understanding was that torture would cause damage to the prisoner's person that could be irreversible. Waterboarding, as done by the US, does not do that by design.

I doubt that the Japanese kept a stopwatch when they were waterboarding to limit damage.

John Navratil| 11.14.11 @ 4:24PM

vtwin,

Waterboarding by the Japanese was NOT waterboarding as is being discussed. The Japanese would continue interrogating and beat the subject for no response. When the subject responded he would inevitably swallow water. When so much water had been swallowed that the stomach was bloated, the Japanese would then jump on the distended stomach.

NOT THE SAME THING!

vtwin| 11.14.11 @ 6:19PM

To summarize; Japanese water-boarding bad, American water-boarding good unless Democrat in White House?

John Navratil| 11.14.11 @ 7:33PM

vtwin,

To re-summarize. Black is white because they are both colors. Phhhhht!

vtwin| 11.15.11 @ 4:31PM

Correct, Japanese water-boarding is American water-boarding because both are torture.

Mr. Conservative| 11.14.11 @ 2:12PM

Because Americans will never support torture I propose we call it something else. I know lets call it enhanced interrogation.

Kingofthenet| 11.14.11 @ 6:39PM

Water Boarding isn't 'simulated' drowning, it IS drowning, just not continued to death.

Nick| 11.14.11 @ 11:24PM

So, I guess the military drowns trainees during S.E.E.R. training, huh Kook?

Nick| 11.14.11 @ 11:29PM

Oops! That should be: "[...] during S.E.R.E. training [...]."

Kingofthenet| 11.15.11 @ 2:50AM

JUST like I F.U.C.K my girlfriend and IF ANYONE else does it, it's RAPE. get it?

Nick| 11.15.11 @ 7:33PM

You're an idiot, Kook.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 1:56AM

King: I dunno, she likes me.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:20AM

King: you GF told me that she just does you for pity and because she can't believe something can be so small. Look it up on You Tube. I think it's going viral.

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 7:19PM

Although it could be - but I guess it wouldn't be "waterboarding" if it was.

Jack in Wi| 11.14.11 @ 7:33AM

After reflecting a few minutes on this essay. I want to congratulate Mr McCain for writing a great piece of satire.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 7:34AM

Ron Paul received 89 seconds in South Carolina.

Since this was a foreign policy debate, that's probably 88 seconds more than Mr. "Blame America" needed.

I was looking forward to this moment to see how upset the Paul-Bot cranks like Jack in Munich and Clint would be...and they didn't disappoint!

89 seconds! LOL!

Jack in Wi| 11.14.11 @ 7:41AM

I was waiting for the contingent from Israel to show up, for more mindless name calling and lies. Among all the Zionists who post here, there is only one who respect. Margie is by far the most intelligent, thoughtful, lucid, and sane Zionist on the site. She should be an inspiration to all of you Zionists. Her clearity of thought and tolerance put her far far above the low grade of shill for Israel that usually comments here. Shalom Margie. Keep up your fine efforts to return civility to these pages.

Truth to Power| 11.14.11 @ 8:35AM

The soup kitchen is waiting.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 9:36AM

Screw the poor, there's Jews to bash! Right, Jack?

Oldefarte| 11.14.11 @ 11:05AM

And HEIL HITLER to you as well!!!!!!!

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 6:56PM

Funny how they talk about me when I'm not here. Ken, Jack & his pals.

Liars and false accusers all.

Jack here believes that the Pope is King, and Lord of Lords. He's an anti-semite who agrees with Supersessionsism, as does the current Pope. Two peas in a pod that Jack & Pope. Oh, wait, that's right, Clint agrees with it as well.
Surprise, surprise!

Clint: How come you didn't want to repost the ords of the Pope that you did months ago here, showing his belief in that false doctrine.

It says that Israel is NULL & VOID.
It says that the Catholic church REPLACES Israel.
Heh, better tell that to God, guys! He apparently hasn't gotten the memo.

Papist Dan| 11.14.11 @ 8:34PM

BIGOT ALERT!!! BIGOT ALERT!!!!!

Margie the Bigot is here spewing her daily hate, the Mad Mullah of her own little cult.

The Bruce| 11.14.11 @ 9:29PM

Margie wrote:
"It says that Israel is NULL & VOID.
It says that the Catholic church REPLACES Israel."

That's interesting, Margie. I've been a life-long Catholic and I've never heard any of that (not even in Sunday School).

Making stuff up much, Margie?

Go with Christ.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 9:34PM

Well then, it's about time you do some homework, as Clint would say, eh?

Nick| 11.14.11 @ 11:23PM

Margie,

No, it is you who needs to do your homework. I've explained that the Catholic Church doesn't teach, nor has She ever taught, Supersessionsism.

Yet, you keep repeating this falsehood. I thought you were interested in the truth and being accurate, Margie?
God Bless!

Ryan| 11.15.11 @ 10:27AM

You're both sort-of right.

From the wiki supersessionism article:

"Supersessionism is not the name of any official Roman Catholic doctrine and the word appears in no Church documents; however, the Catholic Church does officially teach that the Mosaic covenant was fulfilled and replaced by the New Covenant in Christ."

Margie| 11.15.11 @ 1:35PM

Ryan,

Wikipedia is written by anyone who wants to post there.

And whoever wrote that is speaking double-speak.

One either believes the Scripture~ that Jesus came to FULFILL the Law and the Prophets!

OR they believe that the Law and the Prophets were REPLACED with the Catholic church.

Jesus says He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, not REPLACE.

To say He came to REPLACE or ABOLISH is a blatant lie by whoever says it. That would mean that Israel is null & void.

"Think not that I have come to abolish the Law and the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
For truly, I say to you, till Heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these Commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven." Mt. 5:17-20.

Nick| 11.15.11 @ 7:42PM

Ryan,

"You're both sort-of right."

No, I am correct. I agree with Margie's assessment of wiki, though.

The Catholic Church teaches that the Mosaic Covenant was fulfilled and perfected by the New Covenant in Christ. I am unaware of any language that says the Old Covenant was replaced. I'm no expert though. Did wiki have a citation?

I, myself, had never even heard of Supersessionism until Margie and Clint got into it. After I researched it, I found that it has never been a teaching of the Church, or ANY Pope.
God Bless!

Ryan| 11.16.11 @ 9:08AM

I think it's one of those theological points that the opposing side gives a name to.

Nick| 11.16.11 @ 4:17PM

Ryan,

As I stated to Margie, some Protestants came up with this false notion of Supersessionism, sometime in the 19th century, from what I remember from my research.

This is not to say that some Catholics haven't also been duped by this falsehood. There are Catholics who buy into the Rapture, too. They are a very small minority, though.
God Bless!

Margie| 11.15.11 @ 1:28PM

So, Nick the Papist Pope worshipper:
You do NOT believe that the Catholic church replaces Israel?
because the current FRAUD Pope does.
Ask Clint. He posted his words here before in order to show that he does.
If your cult doesn't teach it, what do you call the leader of your Religion who believes it?

And please, quit with the disingenuous "blessings".

Ryan| 11.15.11 @ 1:55PM

Not debating here, just saying.

However, the question remains here - can salvation be found in Judaism (as in the OT), or is it only found through the church?

Do all the the promises made to Israel in the OT apply to Judaism, into which someone is (more or less) born, or do they apply only to those who are "elect," which is more diverse?

Nick| 11.15.11 @ 7:46PM

Margie,

Wrong. His Holiness, Benedict XVI, does not believe in Supersessionism. Show me one document where he says that he believes this nonsense.

Supersessionism was invented by Protestants, not Catholics. You know, your brethren.
God Bless!

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:22AM

The Bruce: That is what Clint believes, by the way.

I am not saying that's Catholic doctrine---I'm saying it is what Clint believes. Otherwise, I stay out of Protestant/Catholic debates---got no poodle in this fight, and too many friends on both sides I like.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 1:58AM

Jack---she hates your guts. Work on syntax--- I care not if you decide "only one who respect" is Margie.

Take your "shalom" and shove it up your ass. You are not fit to speak Hebrew.

By the way, Wear is sup kitch?

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:00AM

Incidentally, I like Margie because she is principled and fights. I don't even have to agree with her always---watching a Soldier of the Lord in action is inspiring.

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 7:32PM

Well you have now shown to all what a totally ignorant fool you are. For those people who were not sure about Ron Paul and the other cadidates running for the GOP nomination, and were looking for an honest debate and the chance to hear what positions they took on the issues of foreign policy, they were cheated by CBS. You are obviously to stupid to realize that. To think it's funny that a candidate only got 89 seconds but should only have got 1 second, shows your true lack of character. But my having wasted 10 minutes and 100+ words illustrating that fact is pointless. You are obviously just a TROLL and not interested in meaningfull discussion.

martin j smith| 11.14.11 @ 7:37AM

The entire so called debate process is falwed and the fact that a hostile media including FOX is in on the action troubles me to no end. That said I have two things to say. Candidates need to be able to go"outside the box" by challenging the asumptions of certain questions and secondly not challenge the manner in which moderators try to skew either the questions to the targets of same,
If you play by their rules I think the Voters lose and so do the candidates. I also think that Ron Paul is not a "Republican" and should not be there. If he wants to run his own show, go for it --but not on their dime--on his. If Stacy you do not believe there is media bias then I have nothing to say --

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 7:58AM

That's an Asshat thing to say.

By Smith's standards, Ronald Reagan was not a " Republican" either.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Oldefarte| 11.14.11 @ 11:10AM

No it is not, since he was previously asked about his possibly running as a third party candidate and he didn't effectively deny same. Anyone doing same will guarantee the re-election of Democrat-Obama [but maybe that is essentially what some candidates desire anyway]!!!!!!!

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 11:42AM

Do Your Home.

Chris Wallace Asked Dr.Ron Paul If He Would Run As A Third Party Candidate.

Dr. Ron Paul : No

Chris Wallace: Why Not ?

Dr.Ron Paul: Because I Don't Want To.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Right Here Inside The RINO-CINO GOP.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 2:52PM

That's not what he said, tough-girl. He said "I have no intention of doing so" (running on a 3rd-party ticket).

Nice present-tense choice of words, Ronnie.

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 6:16PM

Do More Homework, Bitchy GirlieMan, Dr.Reich.

" Ron Paul on Third Party Run: ‘I Don’t Want to Do It’

“Does that mean you might consider an independent run?” Wallace asked.

“No, it doesn’t mean that at all,” Paul said. “I have no intention of doing that. It doesn’t make any sense to me to even think about that, let alone plan to do that.”

“Because?” Wallace pressed.

“Because I don’t want to do it,” Paul said laughing. “That’s a pretty good reason.”

http://www.theblaze.com/storie.....-to-do-it/

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 7:44PM

Hey Doctor Dumbass (your new, more accurate moniker) The post by Clint was completely accurate, it was the last thing said in the interview.

irish19| 11.14.11 @ 11:53AM

Actually, I'm pretty sure he did say he would not run as a third party candidate. I think he realizes that the departure of zero and his cabal has to be Job One in 2012. I only hope his supporters realize this as well.

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 12:06PM

We Realize This !

We Are Being Set Up By RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Drunken Sailor| 11.14.11 @ 12:09PM

Don't hold your breath Irish. Many of them have flat out stated they will stay home and not vote if Ron Paul is not on the ticket. To many (but not all) Ron Paul supporters it really is Ron Paul or ruin. And they will do their damndest to fulfill that prophecy.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 2:53PM

Clint will NOT publicly admit that he's going to stay home on election day, or write-in some obscure candidate if Ron Paul is NOT the nominee.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 6:08PM

I wonder why. He's admitted here publicly that he wrote in his brother-in-law last time.
When confronted as to why, he returned taunts (as usual) that I (or anybody else for that matter) "gave us the serial traitor to conservatism, John McCain!"

He and his Popey-bot pals just don't get it, and apparently never will.
Actually, they don't WANT to get it.

That a vote for Ron Paul equals a vote for Obama.
Fools.

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 6:28PM

Notice, American Spectator's Resident Religious Bigot Twins Dr.Reich & Crank Lady Margie Are Also Israel Firster RINO-CINO'S Who Said That They Will Vote For The RINO-CINO Frontman, Mittens Romney.

We Are Being Set Up By Israel Firster RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.


The Tea Party Rebell;ion Is Here.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 6:50PM

Darlin', you've not only been set up, but bought and sold to the highest bidder and HAD big time.

I hope you repent.

And the only Rebellion you're part of, is the one against God.

The Bruce| 11.14.11 @ 9:46PM

Wow, Margie. You turned THIS into a Catholic thing? So you're implying that Catholics are behind Ron Paul?

Um, not "this" Catholic. But thanks for rolling out the off-topic religious bigotry (again). You're an entertaining gal, sweetie.

Go with Christ.

Papist Dan| 11.14.11 @ 10:07PM

Bruce,
Margie is obsessed with Catholics because she hates her parents who are Catholics.
She is also a bigot as you can tell.

Margie| 11.15.11 @ 1:38PM

I just present the facts, Troll.

And Christ doesn't "Go" with liars.

djtoland| 11.14.11 @ 1:05PM

I have to disagree that the departure of Obama has to be the number one priority.
The root cause of our problem isn't Obama, the root cause is that millions of Americans don't have the intelligence to see right through him and his "pie in the sky" policies.
Experience is the best teacher, and maybe we need 4 more years of Obama to educate the American people.

irish19| 11.14.11 @ 2:04PM

The bottom line, then, is to work HARD for conservative candidates at all levels, but to vote Republican, no matter who. Wash your hands after if need be, but zero has to go.

David Toland| 11.14.11 @ 4:25PM

No, I will not vote Republican if Romney gets the nomination. He is simply Obama-Lite, he won't cut spending, he won't reduce the size of government, and very little will change.
Nope, if this country doesn't have the brains to elect Ron Paul, then we need 4 more years of the Obama experience.

irish19| 11.14.11 @ 5:11PM

So, you're on the Jackwagon then? Paul or Bust!? Or would you consider voting for one of the not-Romneys? Do you agree that down-ticket conservatives should be supported?

David Toland| 11.14.11 @ 5:36PM

If we elect a RINO, and nothing improves, the American people will blame conservatism, won't they?
I mean, if we had elected McCain last year, a conservative pretender, economically speaking we would probably be in the same boat.
And of course, the vast majority of American people, being government educated of course, would blame conservatism.
No thanks, I am looking at the long run, for me it's a real conservative, or I will hold my nose and vote for Obama.

The Bruce| 11.14.11 @ 10:19PM

Um, David, the election you speak of was three years ago, not last year.

And although McCain isn't a conservative, here are some things I'm pretty damned sure he would not have done, were he elected to the Presidency:

1) Nationalization of the (college) loans

2) Nationalization of two car companies

3) Obamacare (HELLO???)

4) Gone on a year-long America Sucks tour

5) Illegally bailed out GM, Chrysler, and AIG with TARP funds by "reclassifying" them as banks

6) Illegally broken 190 years of bankruptcy law by making secured bond-holders of GM and Chrysler get in line BEHIND stock holders (mainly the unions), making the bond holders take a haircut while giving the union dollar for dollar on their losses.

7) "Giving" the UAW a 30% ownership of GM

8) Given the EPA the green-light to make an end-run around the Congress and "regulate" CO2

9) Signed the Stimulus Bill, the biggest political payback bill in history.

10) Run annual deficits averaging $1.4T for the last three years.

That is a short list (I can cite many more). I would imagine that you'd agree with me on these points (that McCain would have done none of this). I also, in 2008, decided not to pull the lever for McCain because he wasn't a real conservative, and I've regretted it every day since.

I've learned my lesson: a non-vote for the lesser of two evils equals a vote for the greater of two evils.

Go out of your way to support your primary candidate choice. But once the election is down to one Republican and one Democrat, if you don't vote for the Republican, you're basically helping to cast a vote for the Democrat.

And if you "waste" your vote on the Independent (or write someone in), you're intellectually stupid, as no third-party candidate has any chance of winning. Not now and not ever (and you know this). The Republican party has to be reformed from within (this takes time).

Waste your vote at the country's peril.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 6:09PM

David,

You won't have to worry about getting Obama-lite. You will get Obama Extra strength if you don't vote for the Republican nominee, kiddo.

David Toland| 11.14.11 @ 6:24PM

Margie,

Evidently, Obama Extra strength is what this country needs. The gov't has been dumbing down the population for decades, millions of people still believe in a "free lunch".

And as I always say: "experience is the best teacher.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 6:30PM

So, to you, the country NEEDS Obama extra strength.
Wow.
Thanks for wishing the worst on the country, and sorry, but but you won't find this conservative allowing her vote to go to the Left.
I dare say many are sick enough of his Socialism to do the same this time around.
One can only pray.

Kingofthenet| 11.14.11 @ 6:52PM

Margie, David has the courage of his convictions, I agree with David. I WISH Obama was allowed to do 'Universal healthcare ' like HE wanted, not this Cobbled together Wishy-Washy BS. Maybe it fails, maybe it's a great success, but it would be 100% his. This is coming from a Dem. I wish YOUR 'Hardcore' Conservative get to do it someday too,(just not for at least 4 more years) because THAN we can either say these Conservative ideas are GREAT or Finally put these antiqued ideas out of their misery.A half/half Candidate NEVER gets us closure.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 7:02PM

I'm sure that the resident Leftist Obama suck-up, RCV would agree with you and David Toland.

The Democrats are thanking you both right now for having "the courage of your convictions!"

LOL.

djtoland| 11.14.11 @ 6:59PM

Margie,

I am NOT wishing the worst for this country.

Obama is a symptom of the problem, whereas the root cause of our f**cked up country is the stupidity of the millions of people who elected Obama. Stupidity is only fixed by knowledge.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 7:09PM

I said that to David T., not you, but I read your post, and see that you agree with him?

It seems so clear and simple to me, I just don't get how anyone could possibly believe that another 4 years of Obama's destruction of the country can be a good thing AT ALL.

So, you are saying, allow the enemy (and that IS what he is) to win because people are too dumb. We deserve to be punished more!

Are you kidding me? Can you nor realize that we need a Republican in office that does not believe in Socialism? Can you not see that if we have a Republican administration, that we can at least get some of the horrific damage that he's inflicted upon this country undone?

It will be you guys who think this way, along with the Democrats then, that sadly turn this election over to him.

It seems to me that it's YOU guys who are too dumb to know what's good for you.

And we'll get the President YOU deserve, not us conservatives.

Kingofthenet| 11.14.11 @ 7:15PM

Margie, Your HATE for President Obama is stronger than your love of Conservative ideals. Wouldn't you want all us poor, misguided Liberal Democrats and Independents to see your Conservative wisdom? how are we going to see the TRUTH that is Conservatives if we get a RINO in office? A RINO will give Conservatism a Bad Name, we need a standard bearer to show the light, or as I believe for you to wreck this Country enough so that NO Rethug will EVER get elected again.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 7:37PM

KON:
I don't hate Obama, I actually pity him. What I HATE is what he is doing, and what he stands for~ Socialism. I HATE it to the core.
If he doesn't repent, of his own hatred, not only for America, but for conservatives, he's going to be joining the millions upon millions of other liars in Hell.

And since when are you in favor of conservatism, or TRUTH for that matter?
Oh, that's right~ you aren't! You're just having "Fun With Words!"
LOL.
How about growing up and becoming a man, using that brain you have for good instead of nonsense?

Kingofthenet| 11.14.11 @ 8:00PM

Why do you hate 'Socialism' are you Anti-Social? Would you like to live on a desert Island alone? Keeping all your money, but getting no Govt Services? have you been to Europe? Those bastions of Socialism and might I add in the case of Denmark Debauchery (I love Debauchery), seem to be doing fine, the people are beautiful and fit, and smart.Sure they pay alot in taxes, but no one seems to mind.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 8:32PM

KON:

You are funny. when you say, " Why do you hate Socialism, are you anti-Social."
Hardy har har, kiddo!

Nope, I love having friends and influencing people. (In case you haven't noticed). Come on over, hubby and I will even make dinner for you and your guest.

I would hate to live on a desert Island, especially with Socialists~ I'm sure they wouldn't even want to share their coconut juice with me, even though it may be in abundance. See, that's the problem (hypocrisy) of the Left, they act like they're the compassionate ones, but when it comes down to it, they're extremely selfish to the core.

They yell and cry (picture the Wall Street Protesters) for the "rich" to give them some of their hard earned money, yet they don't even want to help cook for their fellow inmates there.. OOPS, I mean fellow protesters there.

Some have even been found dead in their tents, the poor souls. I wonder if that was from starvation?

Ah well. And no, I actually have not been to Europe. Though I've heard a lot about it. I have a good old friend that hails from Norway, another anything goes culture. Yet, the man never wanted to go back. Nope. He's enjoying life in Sunny Florida with his American wife!!

And the Euorpeans are too doped up to care about their high taxes, I'd imagine, but hey! If you wanna go there, feel free!
If beautiful and fit and doped up are what you want, and taxed to the hilt, I'm sure they'd welcome yet another debaucher.
Toodles!

Kingofthenet| 11.14.11 @ 9:48PM

Margie, You sound like a sweet kind person, if there was more of you we wouldn't NEED the Govt. The way I look at it, sure there are kind people who would/do help their fellow Americans in need, but sometimes that isn't enough, sometimes WHOLE communities are poor like the people living in Appalachia, not enough 'fat cats' to take care of the scrawny ones, besides I don't look at say a Govt. Sponsored 'Basic' health care system as the be all or end all, more like a FLOOR than a Ceiling. The Govt. program won't let you die in the streets or suffer, but it ain't 'Top Shelf' just a little help from your friends(Get extended coverage if you want more) I see America as a CHAIN, with US(A) being as weak as our weakest link.

Margie| 11.15.11 @ 1:47PM

KOTN,
Thanks for the kind words... I think?
Listen if the stupid government wasn't taxing ALL of us so much, individuals and businesses would have the money and where with all to help more of the poor.

Conservatives know that just throwing money at a problem though, isn't the answer. It's getting people to see that they can do for themselves. It's about empowering them.

For example, my husband and I do ebay. Anyone can do it and make decent money. I have learned how to buy and sell and put the customer first. We're top sellers, been doing it for almost 10 years.
Learned how to all by my lonesome, out of a need.

I love telling others how they can do the same. Just take something you yourself are interested in and study up on it. Get books on it. Then buy cheap and turn around and sell high.
Collectors will spend the cash for things and they don't have to do the shopping!

As to Obamas healthcare scam.. it IS a scam.
It's welfare, not healthcare.
And that's why it's wrong.
It's a government handout.
Once again, if government would get out of the business of trying to run it, healthcare costs would go down, and we could afford it.
But they won't leave anything alone. They don't believe in free market enterprise.
They wrap it up in a cloak of helping the poor, but it's a scam designed to steal from the so called rich and give to the so called poor.

And that's why I'm a conservative.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:02AM

That's Medicaid. Obamacare will BE the ceiling, except for the cronies, King. That's how it works.

djtoland| 11.14.11 @ 7:58PM

As an FYI,
I go by either djtoland or David Toland, one and the same.

djtoland| 11.14.11 @ 8:01PM

Margie,

You're right, we do need a Republican in office that does not believe in socialism. I agree with you.

The problem is that Romney DOES believe in socialism, and I would bet my left nut that he WILL be the nominee....

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 8:36PM

OK, hey at least you admitted it. That's I think a first here, so kudos.

Well, I'm NOT for Romney either, sir. (Or is it madame?)

I don't think most conservatives are, and I don't think he's conservative enough, either, believe me. But I look at it this way, if he has a Republican administration, rather than a Democrat one, isn't that far far better then having another Eric Holder gang of you-know-what's?

To me, it is far better. Having said that, let's not allow the Left to choose him as our candidate!

Margie| 11.15.11 @ 1:50PM

Duh, sorry about that, djtoland. I asked if you were a madame.. forgive my stupid lapse.
Must've been a Perry moment.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:24AM

Bythe way, I do agree that if Ron Paul gets nominated, Johnson should be his running mate. All Obama would have to do then is run ads featuring Cheech and Chong.

Both big supporters of MJ.

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 7:50PM

Sorry to dash your hopes there Irish - but this election is not just about getting rid of the Obamanation in the WH. It's about changing the course of political history in the US. Electing one of the other Bozos running on the GOP ticket would be tantamount to re-electing Obama. Nothing fundimentally would change, just as the policies of the current adminstration are basically continuations of the previous one.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:01AM

By Paul's statements, Reagan was not a Conservative. He took his endorsement willingly, Paul did, then stabbed his benefactor in the back.

mr| 11.14.11 @ 11:17AM

smith smith smith
Poor ignorant americans..by forgetting the past you are doomed to repeat it. Smith ever studied the declaration of independance? our history, founding fathers? read and understand real freedom....then it is easy to understand Ron Paul he is only a mouthpeice for liberty.
But there needs to be some distiction in your comment 'Ron Paul is not a republican" actually he is not a neoconservative, but is more likened to an original republican. Going back further he would have been called a Jeffersonian.

Richard Baker| 11.14.11 @ 7:39AM

Then why do these candidates participate in these rigged events at all? Go run your own debates in your own fashion and tell the "media" No Thanks. There are other formats and moderators.

Indy| 11.14.11 @ 9:49AM

I agree, there are too many "debates" and the formats and moderators are awful. All that is happening is they are providing lots of footage and soundbites for Obama to use in advertisements and one-liners. They will also use the responses from the audiance...cheering water-boarding will show up in an ad, the candiates are falling into traps, the media is running the playbook and the Dems site on the sidelines enjoying their popcorn.

Our country's problems are many and they will never be solved in 1 minute or 30 second responses. I had hope the "debates" would be used as a way to educate voters, the only format that did this was Newt Gingrich and Herman Cain in Texas, we need more of this conversation approach and less of the moderators running point for Obama.

Nick| 11.14.11 @ 11:17PM

I totally agree with Mr. Baker and Indy.

After that stupid Youtube debate, I don't understand why any of the candidates agreed to any more media sponsored debates.

After that debacle, it should have been the Heritage Foundation debate, or, the Media Research Center debate.

martin j smith| 11.14.11 @ 7:40AM

cut off the word "not" before challenge end of third sentence

Appleby| 11.14.11 @ 7:40AM

What a surprise that you two are up early and touting the lunatic Ron Paul and cursing at Israel, for a change!

The liberal moderators are clearly pushing for Romney to be the nominee, because he is not the favourite and because the Tea Party despise him as a RINO, and because they think they can make something out of his religion because they know most of the Occupy Mommys Basement demographic has no clue that the Constitution prohibits ANY religious test for public office. (Jack the Anti-Semite, you will like to know that this was specifically placed therein to prevent the exclusion of Jews.)

Fortunately nobody is really watching the debates and most intelligent people have caught onto the false bimbo eruption vis-a-vis Herman Cain (only Sixties Hippie Scum would limit the putative bimbos to White women with dyed blonde hair and think the conservatives wouldnt see right straight through it; at least those who wanted to destroy Clarence Thomas managed to scrape up a Black woman who fell for their assurances she would remain anonymous.)

A country that ignored bimbo eruptions occurring as we speak will not give a glance at allegations that cannot be substantiated from 25 years ago. We have more important things to think about.

Appleby| 11.14.11 @ 7:40AM

What a surprise that you two are up early and touting the lunatic Ron Paul and cursing at Israel, for a change!

The liberal moderators are clearly pushing for Romney to be the nominee, because he is not the favourite and because the Tea Party despise him as a RINO, and because they think they can make something out of his religion because they know most of the Occupy Mommys Basement demographic has no clue that the Constitution prohibits ANY religious test for public office. (Jack the Anti-Semite, you will like to know that this was specifically placed therein to prevent the exclusion of Jews.)

Fortunately nobody is really watching the debates and most intelligent people have caught onto the false bimbo eruption vis-a-vis Herman Cain (only Sixties Hippie Scum would limit the putative bimbos to White women with dyed blonde hair and think the conservatives wouldnt see right straight through it; at least those who wanted to destroy Clarence Thomas managed to scrape up a Black woman who fell for their assurances she would remain anonymous.)

A country that ignored bimbo eruptions occurring as we speak will not give a glance at allegations that cannot be substantiated from 25 years ago. We have more important things to think about.

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 7:48AM

We Are Being Set Up by Media Agendists.

" Both Ron Paul and Michele Bachmann are crying foul after what they said were unfair efforts to limit their air time during CBS' Republican presidential debate on Saturday night.

In an email sent out after the debate entitled "What a Joke," the Paul campaign ripped CBS for allowing the Texas Congressman only a minute and a half of air time in the 90 minute debate.

"It literally made me sick watching the mainstream media once again silence the one sane voice in this election," said Campaign Manager John Tate. "The one dissenter to a decade of unchecked war. The one candidate who stands for true defense and actual constitutional government. Ron Paul was silenced, in perhaps the most important debate of the cycle."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Mac Jehoff| 11.14.11 @ 7:56AM

The black helicopters flew in and landed behind the building. The media moles crawled out under cover of darkness to infiltrate the legitimate reporters and sabotage your main man. Damned neocons and Jews. Oh wait, are they not the same thing?

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 8:00AM

We Are Being Set Up By RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 9:37AM

YELP! YELP! YELP!

(Would someone please throw this seal a fish?)

Moe Blotz| 11.14.11 @ 10:05AM

No, flip him the bone! (_!_)

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 10:11AM

Uh Oh !

More Queer Talk From HoMoe.

coal carrier| 11.14.11 @ 8:01AM

The media has been framing the political debt for years. Is anything different today then in 1960? Not as far as the media is concerned. They were one sided then and are still one sided today. Remember all the crap the media fed us about Kennedy’s “Camelot”? All the while he and his brother Bobby were tag-teaming Marilyn Monroe in the beach house in Malibu.

The non-response from the media, for the past 3 years, is deafening. They bitched and moaned for 8 years of Reagan and 8 years of Bush. Yet nothing about the lightweight who has put this nation in economic turmoil.

As far as Bachmann is concerned, the media and the left despise her, along with some Republicans, because she is the only candidate with balls.

The way I see it is, the media wants to nudge into first place, by polling, a Republican, they feel, will be defeated by Obama. That is their role and their goal.

Dixie Pixie| 11.14.11 @ 11:42AM

Kudos Coal Carrier.

I thought I was the only one to see Michele Bachmann as one of the few candidates who were of such Presidential material that she could take on the Ruling Class head-on if elected.
That is why the MSM had orders to marginalize and ridicule her.

Thus, she had but a few minutes of air-time per debate and had to use it defending it against MSM charges that she was a “Flake” and conservative wing-nut.
The media hit job on Michele Bachmann was as relentless and merciless as I have ever seen.

On that point alone Michele Bachmann should be the clear Conservative favorite.

Unfortunately the MSM has spent decades learning how to sell marginal, defective and shoddily crafted products to the public.
That is what brings in the big bucks to the MSM, not looking out for the public welfare.

Kudos again C..C..

RCV| 11.14.11 @ 3:03PM

How come you conservatives are so dumb that you let "the MSM" tell you who to support? If Bachmann is so good why don't more conservatives back her?

Dixie Pixie| 11.14.11 @ 3:52PM

When there is a real contest with real voters then Bachmann is in the first rank.
The MSM “polls” are openly rigged through sampling bias and the use of weighting factors.
In the real contests the winners were Bachmann, Ron Paul and Cain.

John Navratil| 11.14.11 @ 4:26PM

RCV,

An excellent question. The flip side of the question, is how did Obama get so much support?

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 6:11PM

RCV~ How come so many stupid people voted and are going to vote for Obama?
Baffles the mind!

Steve| 11.14.11 @ 8:42PM

Margie, you are a stupid person. Maybe you can explain how stupid people vote.

Craig| 11.14.11 @ 9:48PM

You are an asshole. Maybe you can explain how assholes vote?

Steve| 11.14.11 @ 10:09PM

Now that's cute, Margie using the name Craig.

Marco| 11.14.11 @ 8:16AM

I'd much rather hear more from Bachmann and less from the know nothing twins, Cain and Perry, but since this discussion is centered on Paul, I will inquire of the cognoscenti. Dr. P., after railing against the Fed for 200 years, is put in charge of a subcommittee that can go after them, and instead makes another futile run for president to be followed by his retirement from Congress? Please explain, gentlemen.

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 8:28AM

Tokyo Marco:

"Why Do You Fight This War Marines ?

Your Fight Is Futile !

Jody Is Back Home, Sleeping With Your Girlfriends !

Give Up Marines !

Tomorrow You Die !

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:04AM

Which means what, exactly, Clit?

William R| 11.14.11 @ 8:33AM

There's very little a sub committee chairman can do. He still has to answer to the committee chairman and speaker.

Keith G| 11.14.11 @ 8:17AM

I've been a Republican my entire life, but the way the Republican media has treated Ron Paul has proven to me that now is the time for the our party to fade away and retire.

The Bruce| 11.14.11 @ 10:50PM

Keith, their are certain economic points in which I agree with Ron Paul. Where he totally loses me is where he supports Iran's "right" to acquire nuclear weapons, thereby allowing it to threaten/nuke its neighbors.

Call me crazy, but I don't think allowing a nuclear arms race in the middle-east is a good thing, especially when the religious fanatics in those countries have vowed to engage in jihad against the entire western world (to include Israel).

The Bruce| 11.14.11 @ 10:51PM

Sorry, I meant "there," not "their."

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:07AM

Good point, Bruce. Very good point.

Have you applied for your professorship yet in the University of Woolamaloo? Dr Paul applied, but got turned down due to the "No poofters" rule. You, however, should get in.

RCV| 11.14.11 @ 10:52PM

It will. After the GOP loses the 2012 race, the current tenuous coalition among traditional Republicans ("Rinos" to you guys), Libertarians and religious conservatives will fall apart.

Ryan| 11.14.11 @ 8:20AM

Bachmann needs to drop out...and she REALLY doesn't need to be a front-runner. She's the worst among conservatives about using overstatement of dubious, inflated facts that border on mistruth when she does not need to.

Huntsman needs to be gone as well...he's getting propped up from media elites probably to take time away from more legitimate candidates.

Poor Santorum probably needs to drop as well. He's my default candidate, but the complaining is not helping much.

I'm no Ron Paul supporter, but he DOES have enough support to warrant more time in debates. Jack in WI is overstating his support, but there IS enough there.

Jack in Wi| 11.14.11 @ 8:31AM

Ryan with all due respect I haven't overstated his support. He runs second to Romney among Republicans in head to head polls against Obama. He polls by far the best among the young, Independens and Democrats. It is impossible for a Republican to be elected without a lot of these votes. The Wall Street Journal in a poll in third parties put Dr. Paul against Obama and Romney head to head. He got 18% of the vote in this mytical poll. Romney got 32% and Obama about 43%. I truely believe if such an election took place Dr. Paul would come in first or second.

Mac Jehoff| 11.14.11 @ 10:11AM

Do you have Wi-Fi at the soup kitchen? Or did you come out of the closet/pantry to carry on posting? Perhaps you were lying about working the soup lines as well.

Ryan| 11.14.11 @ 10:49AM

Pointing to the "who can beat Obama" poll IS overstating the support. It just knocks down the "unelectable" argument, and practically any of the Republican candidates could beat Obama - polls with "generic Republican candidate vs Obama" have tended to side with the Republican.

You have not quoted a single poll in your above statement that simply points out where he stands in regular polling among the primary candidates against each other - which is what counts right now.

Keith G| 11.14.11 @ 8:42AM

I agree with you, Ryan. Newt Gingrich keeps saying that this whole election is about finding out who can defeat Obama. If that's the case (and I believe it is), everyone needs to drop except for Romney and Paul. Old-school Republicans may hate Ron Paul, but independents, libertarians, liberals, and those opposed to the wars do not, and would be more likely to vote for Ron Paul (or maybe Romney, although I'm not convinced of that) than any of the other candidates.

Ryan| 11.14.11 @ 10:53AM

Cain could win as well. I almost suspect he would gain a small percentage more of African Americans - up to 15% or so (it's been gradually rising, even in the last election, where it was somewhere 9-10% I believe), and could swing the election.

Perry and Gingrich should stay in as well, but Perry is probably done, unless he continues to do what he's done in the last week and turn a bad debate performance into what almost seems like a pretty good campaign move.

Keith G| 11.14.11 @ 11:36AM

I'm going to guess that Cain is probably done, too.

Like Perry, he's kind of set himself up as a stereotype, being the "I'm the ignorant leader that's just going to ask other people what to do" guy. I think his star is going to start fading pretty quickly, especially if more solid info about his fun in the nineties comes out. One good picture a la Gary Hart would destroy him.

Newt Gingrich is more like Howard Dean, in that he's liked by a lot of people in his own party, but a polarizing figure who is un-loved by all independents. Also, the baggage he carries is enormous, so I don't think he's viable as a general election candidate.

Dixie Pixie| 11.14.11 @ 11:58AM

Greetings Ryan

Why have you fallen for the MSM propaganda about Michele Bachmann
After all she has won a contest with real voters and not the bogus “Polls” the MSM puts out.

It would be foolish for any candidate to drop out before the voters had a say-so in a real primary election.
To do so now only gives the MSM the right to preselect the Republican Party candidates.

Also consider, what would be the point of having a two party system if only one party has control of the candidate selection process through the MSM.

Ryan| 11.14.11 @ 12:27PM

It's not "MSM propoganda." She has trouble in spouting the party-line over-inflated facts, a problem that borders on dishonesty.

Case in point - the HPV-causing-mental-retardation thing (totally a bogus and unproven claim) - among other claims particularly about Rick Perry when he started to get more popular and a chunk of exaggerated economic numbers, and her claims about how many drilling permits the Obama admin authorized.

She's better off as a representative, not as President.

Dixie Pixie| 11.14.11 @ 4:26PM

Greeting Ryan.
It is not really your fault, you fell for the MSM propaganda.
The MSM are professionals at it and have been for nearly a century.

The two examples you gave are known MSM propaganda and thus proves my point.

In the first case the Trial Lawyers and the MSM conspired to loot the vaccine medical industry by promoting the lie that a mercury based anti-bacterial chemical in some types of vaccines caused the same type of mental damage and retardation as more powerful mercury compounds.
It is been well known for over a century that mercury in high concentrations can cause brain damage from the “Mad Hatters” disease to mental retardation and in much higher concentrations physical deformities.
The Trial Lawyers used this fact to loot the vaccine industry to the point of extinction in the USA.
The MSM was essential in helping the Trial Lawyers by amplifying and propagating the lies.

As a result of the Trial Lawyer / MSM propaganda propagated as public health messages, it is not uncommon to hear of young mothers being concerned about the health risk of vaccines.
After all there are actual court judgments proving such risks to the Trial Lawyers and MSM benefit.

So when Bachmann tried to expose the problem the MSM was quick to protect themselves and
their allies in the Trial Lawyers by lying about what she said.

In your second case, Obama tried to portray himself as the embodiment of “Energy Independence” by approving a record number of drilling permits.
Obama then played to his Environmental base by denying EPA approval to drill for every permit.
Obama then tried to take back the drilling permits based on the reason they were not being used anyway and they were going to the hated domestic oil companies not the more beloved Muslin nationalized foreign oil companies.
And as a final insult, Obama took large swatches of Federal land out of possible oil production based on the reason no oil or gas was there because the original drilling permits did not produce any oil.

Naturally the MSM was quick to defend Obama when Michele Bachmann questioned the entire process.
The MSM called her “Crazy, Crazy, Crazy” for questioning Obama's “Integrity” and “Honesty”.

In both cases the MSM were quick to lie about everything and to put the blame on Bachmann in an effort to marginalize her.

Ryan| 11.14.11 @ 4:56PM

You're over-complicating the HPV claim she made.

Michele stated that a young mother came up to her and said that the HPV vaccine caused retardation in the woman's child. She repeated the story several times. It likely has no basis in reality. There have been no complaints, other than that one, about the HPV vaccine doing any such thing.

On oil permits. The below addresses ones made AFTER the moratorium. You're going to need to provide links that 30+ permits given were all turned down by the EPA.

http://www.politifact.com/trut.....st-one-ne/

Not that it's a huge problem, but she also has a tendency to "round up" economic numbers. It just lends to her being less credible.

Sorry, there are just more qualified candidates right now.

Dixie Pixie| 11.14.11 @ 6:19PM

Greetings Ryan

My point is Michele Bachmann brought up a valid concern of her citizens and she was slandered by the MSM for it and for the expressed purpose of making it look like she was a “Flake”.

For a young mother there is no higher priority than the safety of her children and as a mother of 15 children she knows that well.
Vaccination safety is one such valid concern.

The relevant paragraph was pulled from the National Vaccine Information Center website at::::
http://www.nvic.org/

 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 (42 U.S.C. §§ 300aa-1 to 300aa-34). This historic law acknowledged that vaccine injuries and deaths are real and that the vaccine injured and their families should be financially supported and that vaccine safety protections were needed in the mass vaccination system.

Also see “Thimerosal” the mercury based preservative that was the cause of the original court cases.

Ryan| 11.15.11 @ 8:57AM

Michele should have checked her facts. It was a concern, and it wasn't, honestly, a valid one.

She didn't, and hasn't been, good about getting her facts straight.

Dixie Pixie| 11.14.11 @ 6:23PM

Another good website on vaccine safety is::::
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/index.html

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 6:34PM

Ryan doesn't like strong Christian conservative women, period.

Dixie Pixie| 11.14.11 @ 7:46PM

Greetings Margie
I do not know what Ryan likes or dislikes but he was surely deceived by the MSM.
The worrisome thing is, it is unknown how many people like Ryan are out there.

Ryan| 11.15.11 @ 8:59AM

That's false witness, Margie. You are exaggerating what I am saying (Bachmann has a tendency to overstate and has been blatantly wrong several times) into an erroneous belief about women.

Margie| 11.15.11 @ 1:52PM

Ryan,

I speak from personal experience with you. No false witness there.
And for that matter, you don't discriminate, so OK~ you don't like strong conservative Christian men either.
I stand corrected.

Ryan| 11.15.11 @ 1:58PM

I have ONCE contradicted myself in a conversation with you, Margie.

Please find somewhere here where I have ever stated something that was inconsistent with conservatism or I did not back up with scripture properly.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:08AM

But I do. G-dspeed and good luck, Margie.

Dixie Pixie| 11.14.11 @ 7:37PM

Ryan....I tried to post the websites on the EPA denial of permits but the TAS website filter rejected those as Spam.
To quote the “X Files” :::: “The Truth is out There”
The EPA has been trying to repeal the Industrial Revolution for some time and killing energy production is their key method.

On the last point, “qualified candidates” is such a subjective metric so why not let the voters decide.

Ryan| 11.15.11 @ 9:02AM

If those are there, then Bachmann needs to address them on her website. They are her claims, and she needs to back them up. I'm not saying you are wrong, but googling "epa denies oil drilling permits" only brings up the single issue where they idiotically denied Shell earlier this year.

The Bruce| 11.14.11 @ 11:31PM

Dixie, when Bachmann stands behind a podium in New Hampshire, "reminding" them that they were at the forefront of rebellion of British tyranny vis-a-vis Boston, Concord, and Lexington (in Massachusetts, last time I recall), I tend to question her grasp on the facts.

As a conservative, I like her character (generally speaking). But also, as a conservative, I have a problem with her innate ability to simply make sh*t up, which she does on a regular basis.

Some of her idiotic thinking is the reason we're now seeing things like outbreaks of cholera, mumps, and typhoid breaking out in certain segments of the "anti-vaccination" crowd, things we haven't seen in more than fifty years. People are actually buying into this nonsense that the government is trying to "kill the rest of us" through mandatory vaccines.

It's a ludicrous argument, since the "rest of us" are the ones that build the homes, drive the cabs, teach the children, arrest criminals, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum. How would the elites get along without all of us "little people?"

William R| 11.14.11 @ 8:36AM

This article is a joke. All the candidates on stage last Saturday except Ron Paul follow the standard radical NeoCon line on foreign policy. Endless war in the Middle East.

CBS then proceeds to give Dr Paul all of 89 seconds to speak.

The Bruce| 11.14.11 @ 11:13PM

Will, I think the reason Dr. Paul only got 89 seconds to speak is because he proved himself an utter nutter by stating that he has no problem with Iran acquiring nuclear weapons, which the Iranian government has already stated they have no problem with using on their neighbors, especially Israel.

Matthew Quigley| 11.14.11 @ 8:50AM

I noted a tinge of surprise in this piece that See B.S. and the rest of the Socialist Democrat-controlled media are trying to select the Republican candidate.

Well, geeze! What was your first effin' clue? They talk UP Romney and Huntsman, when both are like kryptonite to Conservatives; they ignore Bachmann and Santorum...and tried to destroy Cain (and some rather dull CINO's are still trying to destroy Cain)...and all of a sudden SOMEONE here gets the thought that SOMEHOW the Socialists are trying to influence the Republican primaries! THEY PULLED THE SAME STUNT IN '08! THEY PULLED THE SAME TRICK IN 2000! THEY DID IT IN 1996! THIS IS WHY WE'VE HAD WISHY-WASHY "MODERATES" EVERY TIME OUT SINCE 1988! They yalked up GHW Bush as "inevitable"; they pushed that lunatic Perot in 1992..."moderate and 'respectable'" Republican (AKA "Beltway Insider") Dole in 1996...they loathed GW Bush, but he was a liberal...and shoved McCain at us last time! And this time they want the most unpopular (alleged) Republicans to be viewed as viable, so Mika Brzinski (sp.?) and Schmoe Scarborough talk about how DUMB we are to NOT want that Democrat-kissing SCHMUCK Huntsman, and the rest of the propagandists STILL call Number Three Romney "the front-runner"!

Bachmann did have some traction earlier, but she's either stumbled or been shoved (I lean to a bit of both)...Santorum is solid on most issues, but is a little lightweight to take on the Chicago Machine. Gingrich has ties to Grover Norquist, which to me is a HUGE red flag. Cain has good ideas which need to be refined, and he neutralizes many of the 'rat points of attack...team him up with someone who has knowledge of how the federal government works (all the better to dismantle the bureaucracy), and he would be a powerhouse. Paul is just too unstable and flaky to be taken seriously by anyone but his legion of devoted zombies.

The point is this: We need to IGNORE the media, select our own candidate (and if current polls are to be believed--take them with a grain of salt--we are) and DESTROY Obama in 2012!

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 8:59AM

" George Will, "Today, we have a very different kind of foreign policy. It’s called Wilsonian. And the premise of the Bush Doctrine is that America must spread democracy, because our national security depends upon it. And America can spread democracy. It knows how. It can engage in national building. This is conservative or not?"

William F. Buckley, " It’s not at all conservative. It’s anything but conservative. It’s not conservative at all, inasmuch as conservatism doesn’t invite unnecessary challenges. It insists on coming to terms with the world as it is …”

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

GW| 11.14.11 @ 1:19PM

George Will also mocked Ron Paul--saying Paul would return lands the constitutionally-dubious Louisiana Purchase acquired. So Ron Paul isn't quite conservative either.

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 6:48PM

It's About William F.Buckley's Answer, Not George Will's Question.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Sean| 11.14.11 @ 9:46AM

The one person the liberal media wants to keep down most is Ron Paul.

Cain, Romney, Huntsman, Newt, and Perry can all be counted on to preserve the status quo. Santorum and Bachmann will preserve it also mainly on foreign policy. The only one that is a major threat to socialism and big government is Ron Paul.

scotchieguy| 11.14.11 @ 1:07PM

Matthew, good take. The first problem with Paul is he is too much of an isolationist, although I am not sure why we always have to take 10 years to stumble through the last three wars--Viet Nam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Nation Building just doesn't work, and we simply can't afford it.

The other problem with Paul is his age--he is 76, way too old to be running.

But your overall point is spot on. Why the hell should the MSM have ANYTHING to do with OUR debates? They are quite literally determining the outcome. Half the idiots who vote are not interested in the debates---they are too busy watching trash like Dancing with the Stars and playing video games--but they will vote for whomever the MSM says they should. We don't have a voting problem (too few voters), we have a stupidity problem.

Matthew Quigley| 11.14.11 @ 1:47PM

Scotchie, I agree with the nation building. It just plain does NOT work, and I don't support it. I did a tour in Iraq as well as A-stan, and quite frankly, Iraq was the only one that had potential to be successful. If their new constitution had been islam-free, I would call Iraq a qualified success...as it is, I'd have to call it a potential flop. As for Afghanistan, that place is paleolithic in culture and attitude...we should just have turned the BUFFs and Bones loose and leveled that overgrown cesspit, and then issued a warning to Pakistan that any more trouble emerging from that region would result in us getting nasty. No troops on the ground, no new batch of cretins, just appropriate destruction of a gangrenous country. But the guys who get sent to do the work don't make the plans...that morass comes from the White House and Foggy Bottom--dammit.

The big problem is with the "moderate" "me-too" Republicans. When GW Bush qualified himself as a "compassionate" c0nservative, it made me see red! The implication was that Conservatives aren't caring and compassionate because we want to remove roadblocks to personal success, rather than hand out money and benefits from the public treasury. Someone show me where making a person a slave to the government is compassion, for s**t's sake!

I'm a Constitutionalist...if it ain't in there, we don't do it, and we need to get back to the original intent (meaning repeal Amendments 16, 17, 19--which is already covered under the 14th and equal protection--23 and 26, then impose legislative and judicial term limits in order to restore proper checks and balances). I'm no isolationist, as is Paul, but I also don't believe we should sit on our fat and happy rears and let another Pearl Harbor or 9/11 occur! If we have credible intelligence of a coming attack, we should act and act decisively...it's called self defense! Just as an aside, there are Paultards who are so constitutionally illiterate as to think the mere existence of the US Air Force is unconstitutional, since the Constitution only authorizes Congress to raise an Army and a Navy. I guess that means to them we shouldn't have an Air Force since it isn't in the original document...and with my luck, one of those goobers will probably go on a rant about that item.

What we need to do is ignore the MSM and focus on getting Constitutional Conservatives elected on all levels...I firmly believe that will be the ONLY way we can save ourselves from the tyranny being imposed on us by the Socialist Democrats.

djtoland| 11.14.11 @ 2:00PM

Matthew,
If you really mean this statement:

"I'm a Constitutionalist...if it ain't in there, we don't do it, and we need to get back to the original intent"

then I'm sure you know there is only one strict constitutionalist running.

Question: is the reason you don't support Ron Paul solely because of his foreign policy?

The reason I ask is because I would like to try and convince you that his foreign policy makes sense....and I won't use any ad-hominem attacks, only logic.

Matthew Quigley| 11.14.11 @ 2:20PM

Paul is a fruitloop. He could be wearing George Washington's boots and quoting Ben Franklin and he'd STILL be in need of heavy anti-psychotics. His hatred for Israel, as well as the hatred expressed by his followers (and you tell me why he never gave back the money he got from Stormfront), his sheer thick-headedness on Iran all add up to someone I don't even want in Congress, let alone in the White House!

Paul's foreign policy is that of the Bund, and we all saw where THAT got us.

The only way I would ever vote for Paul is if he were the only person on the ticket, and even then, I'd write in someone a bit less mentally ill...DAFFY DUCK!

Matthew Quigley| 11.14.11 @ 2:23PM

Dammit...I broke my own rule: Feeding a Paulbot troll.

Fifty pushups...

David Toland| 11.14.11 @ 4:22PM

Matthew,

Not everyone who supports Ron Paul is a "Paulbot".

Also, if all you're interested in is talking to like thinkers who will agree with everything you say, so be it.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:13AM

Yes, David, but you come close.

Ron Paul's foreign policy will get millions of Americans killed, because it fails to follow the first rule of Medicine and Diplomacy: eliminate a problem while it is small, not when it has become large. Follow the bouncing demographic ball, and tell me the next culture that will have an overwhelming supply of aggressive young men in the next twenty years, and which culture will be composed mostly of the middle aged and elderly. Extrapolate from there. The answer is obvious. The solution is obvious. Waiting until the problem becomes overwhelming is moronic.

Paul's approach closely approximates the famed Burton K Wheeler, and he will suffer the same fate historically.

Incidentally, his district is a shithole. I went to medical school there. Great pathology, crappy place to live.

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 9:59PM

You Sir are a hypocrite - Constitutionalist my eye. Why don't you go back and honestly READ the document, and the mass of literature available from the men who forged it. Maybe your closed militarist, interventionist brain would have an epiphany (but I doubt it since you are obviously a Neanderthal). You gall me to no end - It is persons of YOUR ilk that are the true enemies of the Constitution you are a fraud and a traitor to your oath.

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 10:11PM

Can you really not see what is wrong with your statement - "The first problem with Paul is he is too much of an isolationis... always have to take 10 years to stumble through the last three ". The interventionist mentality does NOT want these wars to end - Endless war feeds the Military Industrial complex and enriches the Corporatist Elites. If you agree with a militarist like Quigley then you are either naive or one of his ilk. I strongly recommend that you educate yourself on the difference between isolationist and non-interventionist.

Dick Nome| 11.14.11 @ 8:51AM

Crackhead Paulbots at it 1st thing on Monday.

Keith G| 11.14.11 @ 9:12AM

I love the silly cracks aimed at Ron Paul supporters. I supported Fred Thompson last time around, before that George W., Steve Forbes, Dole, etc. I was hoping for Mitch Daniels to run this time, but, to me, Ron Paul is the most conservative candidate right now out of this field of big-government Republicans.

I've always chosen candidates based upon who agrees with *me*. However, Ron Paul is the first politician I've ever listened to who has actually changed my mind regarding a number of issues (especially regarding foreign policy and monetary policy.) Does that make me a "zombie" or a "paulbot", simply because I've listened to him, weighed his arguments against my own beliefs, and been convinced by him? I don't think it does. I think it makes me the opposite of a zombie. If more Republicans would stop dismissing him out of hand and would listen to him, I think they, even if they don't end up being convinced, would stop calling a "whacko", "nut-job", etc.

djtoland| 11.14.11 @ 11:47AM

Keith,
I have to agree with you. I listen to all points of view, hell, I even watch MSNBC (know your enemy). I listened to Ron Paul, and he changed my mind - I used to mindlessly vote Republican, now, thanks to Paul, I see how they aren't any different than the Dems.
Consider that the Repubs are always saying they are for limited government, yet it never happens - when is the last time we actually, for real, saw the government cut spending? I'm 46 and I can't remember the gov't ever cutting spending. The reason is neither party wants a smaller government, because a smaller government means less goodies to hand out to your supporters.
This being the case, there is only one way to fix Washington, that is to remove as much power as possible from the Federal government, and return it to the local and state level. At least it is much easier to hold a local politician accountable, than a federal politician.
And is there any candidate oout there that preaches state's rights? The only one I know is Ron Paul.
Another reason to vote for Paul is his understanding of the economy, and how to fix it. In my view, the biggest threat to the US is the oncoming currency crisis - I mean, how much longer can we go on borrowing and printing money - at the rate of ~ $1.5 trillion / year? By the time Iran has a nuke, we will probably all be in the poor house....

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 2:18PM

Dr.Ron Paul's : Plan To Restore America

SPENDING:

Cuts $1 trillion in spending during the first year of Ron Paul’s presidency, eliminating five cabinet departments (Energy, HUD, Commerce, Interior, and Education), abolishing the Transportation Security Administration and returning responsibility for security to private property owners, abolishing corporate subsidies, stopping foreign aid, ending foreign wars, and returning most other spending to 2006 levels.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the.....e-america/

The Bruce| 11.14.11 @ 11:55PM

Clint, that part of Paul's plan sounds well and good and all, but where will he find the Congress (Republican or Democrat) to support it?

If he's thinking about Executive Orders to accomplish this, then he'd be no different than the current (and previous) lawbreakers-in-chief, all of whom have had Congressional approval for, and Presidential endorsement of, these policies?

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 10:13PM

brain dead zombie - can barely put together a sentence, much less make a reasoned argument.

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 9:01AM

Ronald Reagan,
"Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Dick Nome| 11.14.11 @ 9:03AM

Your re-runs are beyond boring. Same for your insults and threats. Get some new ones.

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 9:18AM

You RINO-CINO Israel Firster Propagandists Are The Real Re-Runs.

You're The Chairman Of The Bores, RINO-CINO Israel Firster.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Dick Nome| 11.14.11 @ 9:23AM

See what I mean. This clown just confirmed it. I knew it would happen.

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 9:31AM

Now !

Ya Gotta Ask Yourself, " Did He Know. That Israel Firster Would Answer To ' Israel Firster ' ? "

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 9:39AM

You can't argue with a trained seal, Dick.

Dick Nome| 11.14.11 @ 9:58AM

He is so predictable, Eh?? Arkk, Arkk. Throw him a fish.

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 10:02AM

Aaaand Remember, You Can't Argue With A Trained Israel Firster Pussy, Dick.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 10:15AM

ARKK!! ARKK! YELP!!

(...you can set your watch by Clint...He's THAT predictable...)

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 10:21AM

I Got Dr.Reich Trained To Follow Me Around.

Dick Nome| 11.14.11 @ 10:26AM

Like I said, you need a new act. This one is stale.

ARKK!! ARKK! YELP!!

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 10:34AM

I Got This Israel Firster Pussy Trained To Follow Me Around Too.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 12:45PM

So that's your plan?

To have people follow you around on forums and make you look stupid.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

Drunken Sailor| 11.14.11 @ 12:53PM

Now DR. You know Jack and Clint are self made. We do not have to make them look stupid.

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 1:36PM

I Got Drunken Sailor Trained To Follow Me Around Too.

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 1:33PM

Now, Go Fetch The Newspaper, Dr.Reich.

Dick Nome| 11.14.11 @ 2:00PM

Hey Doc R, If you get one, smack him on his nose so he will quit crapping in the corners.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 2:56PM

I'd prefer he stopped licking his own balls, first...

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 3:08PM

Stop Eating Bibi's Bone Dr.Reich.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 3:31PM

ARKK! ARKK!! YELP!! YELP!!!

Stop trolling State College, Pa, with your buddy Sandusky...

John Navratil| 11.14.11 @ 4:30PM

You guys are wearing out my scroll wheel!

Doctor Right - please do not feed the trolls.

Peter Ynkov| 11.14.11 @ 5:46PM

They are trolling for suckers and C keeps biting. It's a hoot!

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 6:47PM

Daer John,

I notice that you feed the RCV Troll, and treat him with the utmost respect.

He is nothing but a liar and shill for Obama. Please, stop feeding him!
LOL.

John Navratil| 11.14.11 @ 7:31PM

Margie,

I try to treat everyone with respect, or not at all, which is not to say I am not passionate on the issues (ask my wife when she kicks my legs under the table). RCV makes points with which I almost always disagree and, from time to time, feel compelled to comment. Of course he is in Obama's camp! Should his posts devolve to the level of Clint's, I will simply refrain.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 7:43PM

John,

RCV's smooth talking lies pour like butter from his mouth, but his words are as sharp as any venomous snake's.

He may not use curse words like Clint does, but the vileness is there.

To each his own, sir.
God bless you.

Papist Dan| 11.14.11 @ 8:47PM

Bigot Margie,
Are you still upset that RCV showed here that you do not believe in the divinity of Jesus, that Jesus is God, and you are therefore not a true Christian? Get over it. He is much smarter than you.

Margie| 11.15.11 @ 1:54PM

Hey idiot~ RCV showed no such thing. What RCV showed, is what a blatant lying scumbag he really is.
Much like yourself, punk.

RCV| 11.15.11 @ 4:05PM

Margie: You're being disingenuous again, aside from being rude and foul-mouthed.

You've told everyone here on the site that you do not believe that Jesus Christ is God, of one being with the Father. That means you either believe there are two Gods -- Jesus and the Father -- or you believe that Jesus is not a God, but only "Lord" -- a lesser being created by God for some other purpose. In fact you've quoted from the Bible to indicate your belief that Jesus himself said He was lesser than the Father.

This is a pretty unique theology and one that is not Christian in any orthodox sense. Virtually all Christians accept the Triune nature of God. To deny that Jesus is God denies the very essence of Christianity, and is a rejection of the Apostle John's testimony that Jesus is the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word is God.

Your beliefs simply are not Christian. And calling people names won't obscure that fact.

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 9:52PM

Stop Blowing Bibi, Israel Firster Queer Talker,Dr.Reich.

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 10:20PM

yes and your retorts are so unrefutably brilliant.
See what I mean?

The Bruce| 11.15.11 @ 12:00AM

Clint, please advise the public as to whether Reagans's endorsement came before or after Paul broke with Reagan's policy of ending the Cold War.

It might be important, given Paul's idiotic stance that Iran has the "right" to acquire nuclear weapons, which it has already stated its intention to use against its neighbors.

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 10:26PM

It was before and Ron Paul didn't break with Reagan just because of his policy for ending the cold war. He broke with him because Reagan abrogated his principals of conservatives. Initiating massive spending, increasing taxes and engaging in a foreign policy of intervention. In other words it was Reagan who sold out, not Ron Paul. But I guess getting shot can do that to a person of lesser integrity.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:15AM

Yes, then he backstabbed Reagan. And now you know..."the rest of the story."

SpatialOrientation | 11.14.11 @ 9:06AM

Gary Johnson is the best candidate out there for ALL Americans. Let's restore sanity and common sense to Washington. GJ2012. More: http://spatialorientation.com/tag/gary-johnson/

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.14.11 @ 9:07AM

C'mon Gary. We know that this is you. Ya gotta stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

The Bruce| 11.15.11 @ 12:10AM

Gary, I believe my local dogcatcher is getting more political coverage than you (that is to say none whatsoever).

"Troll, or troll not. There is no try."
Paraphrasing a very smart, 900 year-old fictional person.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:16AM

Bruce---is that the same amount as world famous bar bouncer what's his name played by that dead guy?

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 10:28PM

Gary Johnson would make an excellant running mate for Ron Paul.

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.14.11 @ 9:06AM

"Why do we fall?" It's a great line in the Batman Begins movie. The young Bruce Wayne is asked by his Father, after being rescued from an old well. And, later on, as the adult Bruce Wayne, is lifted from his burning mansion.

"Why do we fall? So we can pick ourselves up." Wise words, indeed.

In that vein, allow me to ask a question: Why do we go to the LEFT'S Disciples in the Media, for our Debates? Why is CNN and MSNBC and NBC the ones running OUR Debates?

In 2008 the Democrat Presidential Field REFUSED to participate in a Black Caucus Sponsored Debate, on FOX. Apparently, they were afraid of actually being asked a PERTINENT question, and terrified that it might be accompanied by a FOLLOW UP question. (Plus, they weren't about to be told by a buncha Blacks, where they were gonna go. THEY tell Blacks where to go, what to do, and where to live. Not the other way around.)

So, why do we do it? Why do we prostrate ourselves before those who wish us ill? David Gregory. Frank Scheifer. The Islamist's Chief Apologizer at ABC - Christian Amanpour - the Arab Broad with the Jewish Husband, and the Christian name. Or, any of the Island of Misfit Toys, at MSNBC.

Why can't we learn? Why must we always be "The Stupid Party"? There's no shame in having an Obvious response, to an Obvious situation. If you're a Chicken Farmer, you don't get a Fox, to guard the Hen House.

We've got to stop playing by a separate set of rules, from the ones our Opponents are using. The 911's #1 Conclusion was this: "They were at WAR with us, and we were NOT at WAR with them." It's as simple as that.

I propose a total Blackout of these Liberal Newscasts. Unless they're gonna get a BALANCED cast of participants on their shows, and NOT just coming from their own BIAS, I would tell my people to tell their people, to STICK IT. We don't need them. They need US.

They all wanna be the next Woodward and Bernstein. They all wanna get the next Katie Couric/Sarah Palin GOTCHA interview. They can't, unless we let them.

Let's wake up, shall we?

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 12:46PM

I always thought it was gravity..?

The Bruce| 11.15.11 @ 12:17AM

I always thought that the reason we fall is because that direction just happened (coincidentally, I'm sure) to be "down."

I still haven't figured out why the Chinese and Australians aren't rising because they're "up."

(Yes, I'm totally kidding for the folks in Rio Linda).

wodiej| 11.14.11 @ 9:13AM

Bachmann and Paul dont' play the establishment game just like Governor Palin wouldn't.

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 9:20AM

The Liberal Media Agendists,Who Are Attempting To Orchestrate This Election Are Scared Of The Tea Party.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 6:21PM

You're right, Paul plays worse games. And he's his own establishment, both him and his followers.

He is sooo over with.

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 9:50PM

RINO-CINO Israel Firster Margie Said She Will Vote For RINO-CINO Frontman, Mittens Romney.

We Are Being Set Up ByIsrael Firster RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Margie| 11.15.11 @ 1:57PM

Blah, blah, blah.
So go ahead and write in your brother in law on the ballot again, Pope worshipper.
You fools will give us Obama again because you can't see past your blind worship of men, whether it be the Pope, or Ru Paul.

Repent and believe the Gospel of God.
Beginning with Mk. 1:1.

RCV| 11.15.11 @ 4:07PM

... and Margie, believe the Gospel of God. Beginning with John 1:1.

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 10:33PM

No you will get Obama again because you are to stupid to see that all the other Republocrats are the same as Obama. Go ahead elect Mitt, Newt or Hermi - nothing. I mean NOTHING will change, just as it hasn't in the 30+ years.

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 10:30PM

Your so ignorant - Another psuedo conservative that can't make a reasoned argument.

Derek Leaberry| 11.14.11 @ 9:14AM

The debate hosts and questioners have been selected from a narrow range of liberals, "official" conservatives, and neo-"conservatives." Thus vital issues like immigration or America's moral squalor are neglected. Conservatives would be better off if someone like Pat Buchanan questioned the candidates rather than brain dead liberals like Anderson Cooper and Scott Pelley or conservative lightweights like Major Garrett.

Sean| 11.14.11 @ 9:54AM

I think right now the best format would be for the candidates to ask a question each and then have every candidate answer that question. Give everyone then a 30 second follow up. Moderators should be there only to enforce time restrictions.

irish19| 11.14.11 @ 12:11PM

Interesting if unwieldy. I think I might like to see a series of debates in a more formal format. One question per debate, framed in a "be it resolved" form, with statements and follow-ups from each.
If you really want something unique, how about a series of two-or three-person debates with the candidates drawing numbers to see who debates whom?

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 10:36PM

both excellant suggestions there Irish, especially the first one. The only problem is, that would then make it a real debate, and we can't have that now, can we.

Derek Wain| 11.14.11 @ 9:36AM

"An email from a CBS producer who predicted that Bachmann would not receive many questions from moderators Scott Pelley and Major Garrett."
The email is not a "supposed smoking gun" It proves that CBS intended their anti-Bachmann bias to do what they in fact did: ask Bachmann fewer (60%) questions than asked of Romney and Gingrich.
When you predict what in fact you do, then it shows intent, in this case intent of bias.
A recent SmartPolitics analysis found that former Massachusetts governor and front-runner for the nomination Mitt Romney has spoken for over 73 minutes in the last 5 debates, more than any other candidate. Texas Governor Rick Perry came in second in terms of speaking time at 54 minutes, followed by Bachmann at 41.

Bill| 11.14.11 @ 9:53AM

Absolutely, That Herman Cain, a certified RINO and moron, gets almost 30 minutes in a 90 minutes debate. Whereas, Gov Rick Perry, a formidable candidate and a solid conservative, gets only 9 minutes, besides the moderators were biased towards Rick Perry while Perry was responding to their questions. Herman Cain is no conservative and is sabotaging the GOP field. Rick Perry will defeat Obama if he gets the GOP nomination.

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 10:40PM

You are kidding right - Rick Perry? The one who looks like he's on drugs or alcohol most of the time. The one who can't even remember his own platform. That Rick Peery? oops!

George S| 11.14.11 @ 9:58AM

The media is a business and they own the means to permit a person access to millions of people at the same time. Rush Limbaugh is also a business with the ability to introduce a person to millions... yet he makes the business decision not to have the Republican field on his show for a debate. Is he putting money ahead of country? A nasty question -- if phrased that way -- but true. So why the hostility only towards the cable guys looking to score dollar points with their audience? They are not PBS.

Ernie Munroe| 11.14.11 @ 9:59AM

Are media moderators playing favorites among Republicans?
Do bears c**p in the woods

A Bear| 11.14.11 @ 2:10PM

Guess what I just did!

Bill| 11.14.11 @ 10:05AM

It is sad to see that some conservative icons like Rush, Ann Coulter, Hannity are supporting Herman Cain-a RINO and moron, who was never elected and has no executive experience and no knowledge on foreign policy. Cain needs to tell America the truth about those sexual allegations and ends his campaign. Gov. Rick Perry is the only viable candidate who can unite the conservative base and defeat Obama in a landslide.

scotchieguy| 11.14.11 @ 1:17PM

Seriously, did you watch the debate on Wednesday? It is not that he forgot the third point--anyone could, it is that he made a complete ass of himself trying to remedy the situation. He looked every bit as incompetent as Palin did during Couric's gotcha moment. But both 'moments' were very revealing. Just like Quayle (you are no Jack Kennedy). Some things you just never recover from.

My favorite description of Perry is this: "He is a 45 rpm record being played at 33 1/3 speed.

Bill| 11.14.11 @ 10:08AM

Herman Cain is paid by DNC to sabotaging the GOP field and to destroy the Tea Party movement. Cain is pro-choice, pro-union, for big government and for gun-control. He praised and supported Obama in 2008 election. Now, he wants to beat Obama, that's a joke.

Lee Ghume| 11.14.11 @ 10:15AM

I am paying Mr. Cain $9.99 as a Honkie for Herman.

BackToBasics| 11.14.11 @ 8:21PM

You are a Democrat or RINO shill yourself. You try to hide it by supposedly supporting lowest-tier Republicans like Bachman and Perry while repeating exactly all the MSM and RINO attacks on a still top-tier Cain with these false allegations.

Bletch Doshek| 11.14.11 @ 10:17AM

Righto Lee, I am sending $99.99 as a Cracker for Cain.

Bill| 11.14.11 @ 10:27AM

Herman Cain has had already his 15 minutes of shame, a book deal and a book tour, and a bundle of cash from the GOP donners, who think the RINO Herman will defeat Obama, a false promise and fading hope for another disaster loss like 2008.

Sovereign| 11.14.11 @ 10:45AM

Ron Paul's Foreign Policy plan is mislabeled labeled as isolationist because he has so little media coverage that he doesn't have enough time to explain it fully, thus people infer things incorrectly to fill in the gaps.

Here's part of his plan I'm sure few know; There was a bill he introduced in Congress within days of the outbreak of the war that erupted on September 11, 2001.

The bill was the first bid in generations to unleash one of the most important of the constitutional war powers, the letter of marque and reprisal, which is an instrument for bringing private parties into the war. The thinking that went into Dr. Paul’s bill deserves a hearing in any debate in which the GOP contenders are going to be grilled on foreign policy. He would not limit our engagement to letters of mark; he voted to give President George W. Bush authority to take this war to our enemies. But my understanding of Dr. Paul’s position is that he was and is reluctant, to put it mildly, to commit to a vast expedition involving hundreds of billions, even trillions of taxpayer dollars in a war that now engages us in several theaters, erodes our civil liberties, justifies torture and kills our service men and women.

Hence his idea of granting letters of marque to enable private parties to carry this war to our enemies and funding it out of their takings from the enemies they defeat and possibly a bounty from the US less any fines for the death and property damage done to innocent civilians . We used this war instrument against the Barbary Pirates with great success.

It's constitutional, it's non-interventionist and NOT isolationist. It saves American lives, it puts more focus on OUR boarders making us more safe, and it is dirt cheap compared to what we are bankrupting our country with now.

Louis Jenkins| 11.14.11 @ 10:47AM

It is very noticable that Dr. Paul received 89 seconds of notice by CBS. While not a Ron Paul fan it is a travesty and unfair. Yes, something is rotten in Denmark. I would have like to heard Bachman's addition that was so smart-aliky cut off. The MSM has already picked Romney as the nomination-that is apparent.

martin j smith| 11.14.11 @ 10:52AM

du pooooooooooor lutul won pawl supporters are upset. clint and jack in wi sound like infants crying for their bottle of warm milk but in so doing expose the true nature of who they are and thus who ron paul is. racist,american haters, and american lasters. again let me define--those who blame our nation for 9/11 mare in my view america haters.. terrorism can only be explained by the intentions of the terrorists--they get the
blame not us. and they simply justify their actions by saying if only you do what we want we would leave you alone. first that is lie second if you believe then you are not only fool but putting our country in mortal danger. thus this policy is anti-american by putting our nation last while supporting terrorist interests. i really do wonder about won pawl.

oh i forgot the racist part. sorry the blame israel and jews as their automated reflex show these people show a real affinity for obama's and the occupy wall street anti-semitic tendencies.

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 10:48PM

as much as the hope here is to have a reasoned debate - it is just impossible to accomplished with so many morons. It is truly frightening to realize the hinterland is so populated by imbeciles.

Bill| 11.14.11 @ 10:58AM

Oneway to win the WH, Recall Herman Cain, so that Cain cannot sabotage the GOP field. He needs to end his campaign.

Dixie Pixie| 11.14.11 @ 11:12AM

SHOCKED, SHOCKED, SHOCKED I AM to see the MSM be accused of manipulating the Republican Primary.
I know Rick...I mean the RNC, are a people of child-like integrity who would never allow the Ruling Class to rig the political process in favor of the Democrats.
Why it is inconceivable that the MSM would allow their deep-seated hatred of Conservatives to effect their “Professionalism”.

BBBBBAAAAHHHHAAAAHHHHHAAAAAA

This election is so blatantly rigged in favor of Obama, nobody is even attempting to deny it.

It goes from letting Obama run a national campaign unopposed for 18 plus months, to killing even the thought that a Conservative could have national prestige.
Obama's failures and scandals are covered up with mountains of MSM excuses and the Republicans have to defend themselves from bogus, false and outlandish charges generated by the democratic party attack machine.

The RNC goes along with the blatant rigging without complaint or attempt to stop it, so much so, it is hard to believe the RNC is not a co-conspirator.
It is impossible to believe the RNC and the Republican Elite could not see the rigging of the political process when they setup the Primary process.
They had to know and approve that the Republican Primary process was loaded against Conservatives and for the Socialists.

Clint and Jack are right on this position.
The process is clearly MSM loaded in favor of Mittens Romney and against Ron Paul and Michele Bachmann.

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 11:26AM

Yessssssss !

Let Our Tea Party Co-Favorite Candidates Michele Bachmann & Dr.Ron Paul Speak.

The Media Agendists Are Trying To Orchestrate This Election.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Down With Mittens Romney & Barky Obama.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Dixie Pixie| 11.14.11 @ 1:11PM

Enjoy Clint.
It is about the only political or philosophical point we both agree upon.

Unfortunately the MSM has spent nearly a century learning how to sell defective, unwanted, useless and shoddily crafted products to the public.
It is how the MSM makes its money, not on its reporting or public service functions.
They abandoned those duties decades ago if it ever did them in the first place.
The MSM has gotten so good in selling shoddy products, it even sold Obama to the American populace.

The MSM has also learned how to suppress any product or idea that is does not approve of.
It does so, as the propaganda arm of the Democratic Party, a sub-division of the Ruling Class.
Over the decades it has gotten very good at it.

It is the MSM intentions never to give Ron Paul or Michele Bachmann any daylight or cut any slack.
In fact, the MSM will go out of its way to demonize and out-right lie about their political and philosophical positions.
As a result both have an up-hill fight just to remain in place.

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 1:30PM

Agreed !

Now, To The Question,
" Did You Pick Your Feet In Poughkeepsie, Pixie ? "

Dixie Pixie| 11.14.11 @ 4:55PM

Greetings Clint
What subtle spatial point slipped your grasp about the word “Dixie”.

To the best of knowledge Poughkeepsie is in lower New York State and well north of the Mason-Dixon line.
Besides it is too damned cold up there for this Pixie to consider going there.

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 7:21PM

We Heard You Were In Poughkeepsie For The Alfred Mosher Butts Scrabble Championships.

Now, Answer The Question,
" Did You Pick Your Feet In Poughkeepsie, Pixie ? "

Dixie Pixie| 11.14.11 @ 7:54PM

Clint ...The answer is no.
I have never been to that city and have no desire or reason to go there.
It was not that good a joke anyway.
Try better next time.

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 8:26PM

Soooo, That's Your Story And You're Stickin' To It, Ehhh Pixie.

Now, Answer This, " Did You Pick Your Ass In Albany, Pixie" ?

Aaaaand, We Want The Truth Or You're Gonna Do Hard Time In Attica.

Dixie Pixie| 11.14.11 @ 9:35PM

Clint.... Your jokes are getting stale and are centered around New York State.
May I suggest stealing new material from the “Friars Club Encyclopedia of Jokes”, Hardcover, $5.67 at Amazon.com
Cheap and worth the investment.

W| 11.14.11 @ 10:20PM

Dixie,
Did you see the move "French Connection" with Gene Hackman? Clint's questions are questions Hackman as "Popeye Doyle" used in the movie when questioning suspects in the bar. Movie was on last week on cable. I don't know the meaning or significance of the questions.

Margie| 11.15.11 @ 1:58PM

LOL!
Dixie you are hilarious.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 8:39PM

Dixie, this is what you get when you try to reason with a snake, even in your excellent manner.

You are a better soul than me!

Dixie Pixie| 11.14.11 @ 9:47PM

Thanks Margie.
I do try to keep to the high standards expected at TAS Online.
Some days, I actually make it.
Thanks again, for your kind words.

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 10:30PM

Alrighy Then !
American Spectator's Resident Joisey White Trash Religious Bigot & The Pixie , Who Picks Her Feet In Poughkeepsie Will Work In Tandem To Keep Up Their Version Of American Spectator Online's High Standards.

Margie| 11.15.11 @ 1:58PM

Ugh.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:32AM

Nice job, Pixie. But, please review my notes on why people with only 302 neurons aren't much fun to debate, and WHY they have 302 neurons.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:30AM

Michele Bachmann---supports Israel. Worked on a Kibbutz.

How is she a favorite of yours, Clint? She's mine.

Oldefarte| 11.14.11 @ 11:27AM

Any one of these Republican candidates would/should beat Obama. Of course the MSM is manipulating this debate process for their Democrat Party agenda purposes. Paul's economic plan is not getting sufficient traction, either in the MSM [naturally] or additionally with any of you bloggers here. Why? Same is a serious/credible blueprint for seriously reducing the government's wasteful non-budgetary defecits/debt and should be discussed here/everywhere 24-7. Same with his/Newt's call for reducing the foreign aid expendatures to "0". Again, all these R's [except Huntsman and Santorium possibly] can and should be either our next president or a cabinet member of the next presidential administration [how about Paul as Treasury Secretary perhaps?]!!!!!!!!

djtoland| 11.14.11 @ 12:03PM

In my view, the number one threat to this nation is a currency crisis. Currently we are borrowing/printing money at the rate of $3 billion per DAY. How much longer can this go on?
I am convinced that the dollar will crash long before Iran gets nukes, and then the conversation will change. Who cares if Iran has nukes, when you're worried about where the next meal will come from?

irish19| 11.14.11 @ 12:21PM

"I am convinced that the dollar will crash long before Iran gets nukes..."
I don't think I'd want to touch the over/under on this one.
Why would anyone act surprised that the Dem/MSM/RINO elite Combine has lined up behind Romney? This has been obvious to anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together for a long time. The Combine would like us to believe that the matter has been settled before a single primary vote has been cast.
I suggest we all tune this out; do our own research on candidate positions; make sure we vote; and then we shall see in about six months. Or maybe it will go to the convention. I, for one, would be perfectly content to see that happen as I think it would result in a stronger platform and a strong, conservative ticket.

Oldefarte| 11.14.11 @ 2:45PM

While any intelligent person would share your pain/grief concerning the dollar/inflation, that is not our biggest problem. Rather it is Obama's/Democrats' fiscally spending this country into extinction historically on governmental welfare programs [which has now come to a financial head of destruction]. Granted the dollar can become practically worthless due to unlimited inflation, the fact remains that today inflation is basically nil due to consumers/busi nesses hoarding of money. The fed's explosion of dollars from their QE bullexcrement has caused a discimination of dollars in our economy, but same can be effectively contracted/eliminated by a reverse of fed policy within the next administration. The essential problem we face is Obama/Democrats and their socialistic governmental spending agenda. If we do not elect a Republican president and congressmen in November of next year, you/me and everyone else can kiss this country bye-bye [and it won't be from excess monetary dollars and inflation either]!!!!!!

David Toland| 11.14.11 @ 4:38PM

Oldefarte
You are assuming that the Republican nominee would decrease spending. I disagree.
Consider that during the debt limit debate, the tea party pushed the repubs as hard as they possibly could for spending cuts - so far that they were branded as "terrorists" by the MSM.
And what did we get out of it - nothing but another damn commission, which will most likely fail. Then they tell us that there are "triggers" that will automatically cut ~$1 Trillion, except that they don't take effect until 2013. Does anyone want to bet that Congress will change the rules, and will NOT implement the automatic cuts? So, after all the rigamarole of the debt debates, neither Dems or Repubs were willing to actually, for real cut spending.....Absolutely nothing will change if we are stupid enough to elect someone like Romney, or Perry, or Cain, for that matter.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 6:46PM

OK everybody! Let's vote for Obama, then!
What, are you RCV's alter ego or something?
Ugh.

djtoland| 11.14.11 @ 7:05PM

Margie,

If you care to debate me, it would be nice if you used some facts and actually refuted my arguments.

Unless, of course, ad-hominem attacks are all you have in your arsenal.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 7:20PM

I'm sorry~ I didn't realize you were posting under 2 screen names, that of yours and David Toland's.
LOL!!

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 7:28PM

P.s. whoever or whichever person you are~ that wasn't an "ad hominem-and-m-and-m."
(Something you guys always like to say to anyone who laughs at your thinking, and dares to express an opinion in very simple terms, terms too simple for your mighty intellectual intellect).

It was just a logical conclusion to your thoughts.

Let the chips fall where they may.

Drunken Sailor| 11.14.11 @ 11:44AM

And as the Iowa primary draws near the race is still fluid.

Cain 20%
Gingrich 19%
Romney 14%
Bachmann and Paul 10%.

Didn't Paul win the Iowa straw poll? Does that mean he has dropped in popularity there? By the way, this poll was done over Nov 11-13th.
http://www.americanthinker.com.....ening.html

Clint| 11.14.11 @ 11:51AM

" Top Tier: Ron Paul Polls Third In Three Early Voting States

GOP presidential candidate Ron Paul is polling in third in the key early voting states of Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina, according to a new CNN/Time poll released yesterday.

The Texas Congressman attracted 12% in telephone polls with potential voters in all three states.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Drunken Sailor| 11.14.11 @ 1:58PM

Since you like the CNN polls how about this one.

Romney 24%
Gingrich 22%
Cain 14%
Perry 12%
Paul 8%

As of about 16 minutes ago.
http://politicalticker.blogs.c.....?hpt=hp_t1

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 2:45PM

The RINO-CINO Candidate Du Jour Flunkie Stooges Are Scared Of The Tea Party & Our Co-Favorite Presidential Candidate Dr.Ron Paul.


"Ron Paul Polls at 38% in ConservativeHQ.com's GOP Presidential Straw Poll
By Andrew Davis | 11/14/11

Congressman Ron Paul started last week with a commanding lead in ConservativeHQ.com's weekly GOP Presidential Straw Poll, taking more than 40 percent of the votes, which lasted for most of the week. However, Herman Cain, who is under attack in the press for allegations of harrassment, made a weekend push to rally back to 25 percent."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Drunken Sailor| 11.14.11 @ 3:13PM

And in ConservativeHQ's other poll

Gingrich Seen as the ‘Not-Romney’ Candidate
The other half is split between Ron Paul and Herman Cain.

Your guy can't even come in first in your cherry picked websites.
http://www.conservativehq.com/.....rich-seen-‘not-romney’-candidate

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 4:18PM

Ron Paul Polls at 38% in ConservativeHQ.com's GOP Presidential Straw Poll

Dr, Ron Paul: 38 Percent

Herman Cain: 25 Percent

Newt Gingrich: 22 Percent

Mitt Romney: 2 Percent

http://www.conservativehq.com/.....n-paul-pol

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Doctor Right| 11.14.11 @ 3:33PM

Richard Viguerie's blog...LOL!!!!

Clint = clown

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 4:21PM

Dr.Reich's The Paper Trained RINO-CINO Doggie , Who Said He Will Vote For The RINO-CINO Frontman, Mittens Romney.

We Are Being Set Up By RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Bill| 11.14.11 @ 12:15PM

Gov Perry will close the deal at the end of the day. He is solid and can beat Obama in a landslide.

Bill| 11.14.11 @ 12:29PM

Michelle Bachmann championed on liberty and free-enterprise. No matter what the polls say, she deserves to get more respect from the media. Obama orchastrated CBC debate was biased towards Bachmanann and Gov. Rick Perry because they knew that Michelle and Perry will defeat Obama, and the liberal media is in denial.

Owen K.| 11.14.11 @ 1:06PM

That is why these debates are not a true barometer of the qualifications of these candidates. It seems that the primary goal of media moderators is to encourage fighting among candidates, instead of going to the real issue, which is the failed policies of the Obama Administration, and what the individual candidates would do to change course and lead the country. The media protects Obama any way they can.

Bill| 11.14.11 @ 1:39PM

The liberal media gives a lot of time to Herman Cain because Cain is a RINO and cannot beat Obama, even he does the GOP nomination. Cain is the greatest spoiler who is just sabotaging the GOP effort to oust Obama. Don't trust Herman Cain.

1-2 Punch| 11.14.11 @ 2:12PM

To mods: The comment section of AmSpec has become a joke with Jack in Wi. and Clint. If I want to learn about Ron Paul, I will go to his campaign site. Absolutely tired of the Ron Paul schilling and spamming in every comment section.

Indy| 11.14.11 @ 4:17PM

Completely agree, I avoid responding to them, I read the articles and move on often to other sites.

Matthew Quigley| 11.14.11 @ 4:40PM

I asked, too. I swear, those two stopped being worth paying attention to a LONG time back.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:33AM

Yes, I should stop responding. I apologize, guys.

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 2:21PM

Dr.Ron Paul's: Plan To Restore America.

SPENDING:

Cuts $1 trillion in spending during the first year of Ron Paul’s presidency, eliminating five cabinet departments (Energy, HUD, Commerce, Interior, and Education), abolishing the Transportation Security Administration and returning responsibility for security to private property owners, abolishing corporate subsidies, stopping foreign aid, ending foreign wars, and returning most other spending to 2006 levels.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the.....e-america/

Dave| 11.14.11 @ 2:34PM

Is there any question that the media attempts to lead the voters and determine the voter's selection at the ballot?

This has been going on for years.

Bill| 11.14.11 @ 2:34PM

I love Dr. Ron Paul, a true champion on liberty and free-market, and agree 100% on his stands on the Federal spending and budgets, but his foreign policy is really confusing, he is 78. Dr. Paul is a legend but for the COC, I will support Gov. Rick Perry who is a solid conservative and can beat Obama in a landslide.

BackToBasics| 11.14.11 @ 4:10PM

I rarely agree with liberals but there was one the radio last week who asked, " If Perry is really true in his passion to close entire government departments, how could he NOT remember the 3rd department?"

Good question!

RCV| 11.14.11 @ 2:43PM

As a non-Republican observer with no favorite in your race, here's how it looks to me as of now:

The conservative wing (I'm not including the Paul Libertarians in this group, more on that later) have gone through a series of leading "favorites". At each juncture, all the other conservative candidates have aimed their fire at the leading candidate and successfully wounded him or her in turn. Michelle Bachmann had her day in the sun, succeeded by Rick Perry; Perry soared then sunk, succeeded by Hermann Cain. It now appears that Newt Gingrich has risen in the wake of Cain's fall. We shall see if the rifles will now point at Gingrich in an effort to revive one or the other of the conservative wing alternatives to Romney. Either conservatives will unite around Gingrich and mount a joint effort to challenge Romney, or they will descend on Gingrich, leaving Romney to coast to the nomination.

Paul is a non-entity in this equation. He has a fervant dedicated core of supporters in the GOP that has remained relatively constant throughout the campaign, and will undoubtedly continue to remain relatively constant. Few of the supporters of Cain, Gingrich, Bachmann or Perry would support Paul under any circumstances, and few of Paul's supporters would support Romney. It is unlikely that Paul would betray his supporters' faith in him by supporting a Romney candidacy; not sure if he could bring himself to support Gingrich either. The big question is whether he will torpedo the GOP ship by running an independent candidacy when, as is inevitable, he is denied the GOP nod.

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 2:55PM

ObamaBoy Israel Firster RCV Is Scared Of The Tea Party & Our Co-Favorite Presidential Candidate Dr.Ron Paul.

Why ?

Because Dr.Ron Paul Has A Large Numbers Of Tea Party Supporters, Large Numbers Of Independent Voters & Has Consistently Been One Of The Top Vote Getters In A Head To Head Match Up Against ObamaBoy RCV's Mancrush, Obama.

Dr.Ron Paul's: Plan To Restore America

CUTTING GOVERNMENT WASTE:

Makes a 10% reduction in the federal workforce, slashes Congressional pay and perks, and curbs excessive federal travel. To stand with the American People, President Paul will take a salary of $39,336, approximately equal to the median personal income of the American worker.

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the.....e-america/

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 2:59PM

" LAKE JACKSON, Texas--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- In a new Harris Poll, 2012 Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul beats President Obama 51 percent to 49 percent in a general election race.

“This is yet another poll that clearly proves how competitive Ron Paul is against the sitting President,” said Ron Paul 2012 National Campaign Chairman Jesse Benton. “Dr. Paul is making strides, affirming that the American people are looking for conviction instead of the typical status quo rhetoric being offered by establishment candidates.”

The Tea Party Rebellion Steps On ObamaBoy Israel Firster RCV's Face.

RCV| 11.14.11 @ 3:07PM

I wondered whose footprint that was on my face!

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 3:24PM

That Ain't The Worst Part.

I Was Mucking Out Our Horse Stalls Before I Stepped On ObamaBoy Israel Firster RCV's Face.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

RCV| 11.14.11 @ 11:11PM

Clint - glad to see you were doing work you're intellectually suited for!

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:35AM

RCV---a serious question, sir. If I want to introduce my 2 kids, ages 7 and 8, to the Constitution, what text would you suggest?

Thanks. (I figured you needed a break from C(urly)).

RCV| 11.16.11 @ 11:23AM

Occam: My wife teaches elementary school and focuses on American colonial and revolutionary history. Two books her students have enjoyed are "We the People: The Story of Our Constitution" by Lynne Cheney (yes, that Cheney) and "The US Constitution - American Symbols" by Pearl, Norman, Skeens and Matthew. Another ong-time favorite is, "If You Were There When They Signed The Constitution" by Elizabeth Levy. Good luck! You're obviously a good and caring Dad, Occam - your kids are sure lucky to have you.

Oldefarte| 11.14.11 @ 2:58PM

I agree with your analysis but think that it's too early in this nomination process to declare winners/losers. As indicated Paul is not the best potential presidential candidate due to his extremes, but should be considered includable for an appointment to an appropriate cabinet position, probably Treasury. His economic plan is thoroughly outstanding and desperately needed for consideration by all other Republican candidates. As such, he and his plan can become a king-maker down the road toward November of 2012. The essential goal should be to save this country from destruction by Republicans and Independents combining to oust the current socialist-in-chief and his band of theives aka Democrats!!!!!!!!!

Drunken Sailor| 11.14.11 @ 3:16PM

Looks like your dead on target to me.

Matthew Quigley| 11.14.11 @ 4:07PM

RCV,

You bring up a VERY valid point, that being the likelihood of Paul torpedoing the Republican nominee out of spite. Paul has an ego the size of Russia, Montana, China, Texas, Alaska and Canada combined. He knows he doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of getting nominated, let alone elected (let's be frank, while he has some interesting domestic positions, his foreign policy stances make George McGovern look like a Conservative and his opinions toward Israel and the US unofficial alliance with that state make Heinrich Himmler look like a Zionist and philosemitic), but his ego needs to be fed...so, third party or independent is what we can expect from him.

That doesn't necessarily mean a loss to the Conservative candidate. If the nominee is someone lukewarm or personally unlikeable, such as Santorum (lukewarm) or Romney (RINO and as likeable as skunk smell), Obama is guaranteed a win, since the Conservative vote would either be split or suppressed due to low turn out and refusal to vote for Paul. If the nominee is someone the media would love to savage, Gingrich is the likely one in this case, again, you can see a Conservative defeat. I agree, Gingrich has many merits, but his personal failings are a club which the shill media will use to beat the Republicans about the head and shoulders with. He has a place on the ticket, but not at the top. Perry lacks pizazz, even though his record in Texas has been more than credible, Johnson has no name recognition and Huntsman is just a Socialist Democrat in Republican drag.

This post is NOT meant to shill for Cain. Far from it. Cain has problems as well, such as a tendency to shoot from the hip and make gaffes that a man of his life experience should not make. Give him a chance to think out his ideas a bit more fully, and perhaps a more experienced with national politics mentor, and I can honestly see him as being the candidate to defeat Obama.

Conservatives tend to be color blind. We look at a candidate's ideas and past as a way to evaluate what said candidate might do once in office. NONE of the criticisms I've read about Cain in these comments have dealt with his ethnicity, and I'm very proud of that. The criticisms of Cain have done with his gaffes and some of his past associations. The past associations deserve to be explained (not explained away, but just made clear), and the gaffes can be controlled with preparation. Cain has a direct, optimistic personality, and knows how to speak in language that even the disengaged can relate to...just as a Conservative candidate thirty years ago did.

I DON'T believe Cain is the Second Coming of Ronald Reagan. He's the only coming of Herman Cain. But he has a similar way of connecting with people as Reagan did, and that's what can overcome a Paul third-party or independent bid. The media in 1980 were convinced that between John Anderson and Jimmy Carter, Reagan would have no chance at all. Anderson only appealed to a small element (as with Paul), Carter was complete incompetent with a massive ego and some serious problems with enemy identifcation (as with Obama, although Obama is an enemy sympathizer, AKA traitor). Cain is a Conservative coming from a large field and facing a hostile media who want to defend their leftist president...similar to Reagan in 1980.

I would be wary of a Paul independent bid, but if his followers here are any indication, he would have a hard time expanding beyond the malcontents, ignorant and unstable who seem to make up the vast majority of Paul's supporters.

Obama can, will and MUST be defeated. It won't be easy, but it CAN happen, and we HAVE TO make it happen.

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 4:24PM

More Bibi ButtBoy Israel Firster Propaganda Crap.

We Are Being Set Up By RINO-CINO Israel Firster Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 6:26PM

Matthew,

Are you not aware that RCV is an Obama suck-up?

Matthew Quigley| 11.14.11 @ 7:09PM

Yes, I am...but sometimes a little careful thought can give them a headache.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 7:22PM

LOL!!!

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 7:24PM

Excellent response, sir.

RCV| 11.14.11 @ 11:08PM

Matthew: your analysis of Ron Paul's ego is exactly right. He's the GOP equivalent of Ralph Nader. But egotistical ideologues like Nader and Paul can do real damage: Nader's presence on the Florida ballot by most analyses siphoned off enough votes from Gore to give the state to Bush and thus cost Gore the election. If Paul runs in 2012 on a third party ticket, the result could well be the same for the GOP.

I agree with you that Cain would be a far stronger candidate than Gingrich. It will be interesting to see which one will emerge from Iowa to be Romney's challenger. If both sputter, it's not beyond possibility that someone else (Palin? Bolton? Christie?) might not see an opening.

RCV| 11.15.11 @ 6:19PM

Having watched the Cain interview that Ross Kaminsky comments on in another post, I am no longer convinced he would necessarily be a stronger candidate than Gingrich. Gingrich is a polished and accomplished debater and presents a much more serious and thoughtful appearance at a time when our country faces many serious problems, foreign and domestic. The questions as to Gingrich are two in my estimation: Can he overcome the past baggage that he brings with him, and secondly, does he have the self-discipline to see the campaign through? His disastrous start and the embarrassment of his staff mass resignations leave that an open question.

carlc55| 11.15.11 @ 9:26PM

Yes, but the real problem with Gingrich is his voting record and his current stance on the issues. Anyone who is honest and familiar with these two things can't seriously claim he is a conservative. His record is strongly pro big goverment on many issues, at best he is a NeoCon. To consider him a viable candidate because he is a "polished and accomplished debater and presents a much more serious and thoughtful appearance" is to prefer style over substance. Ron Paul (and I am a supporter of his) is not big on style. He's frumpy, a bit long in the tooth and not the most elequent orator. But his ideas, his knowledge of the issues, he steadfastness and voting record prove he is the only candidate that is willing to do what it takes to lead the United States out of the mess we are in. I challenge any of you out there to refute this with a reasoned and lucid argument.

Matthew Quigley| 11.14.11 @ 4:38PM

RCV,

Notice the point I made about Paul's followers. Their replies to your post are prima facie evidence of it.

Hey, moderator or editor, can you please eliminate some of the roboposts by Jack and Clint? They clog the threads and aren't even pertinent to what's being discussed.

Clint | 11.14.11 @ 5:40PM

Notice The Israel Firster Propaganda Crybaby Coalition Thinks They Run The Media Agenda.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:36AM

Indeed.

John Navratil| 11.14.11 @ 6:07PM

RCV,

You are completely correct, in my opinion. What is being danced about it that the conservative, who never left the party, are finding the opportunity, after years of being ignored, to reclaim their voices. This is the source of the anti-Romney.

sirbourbon| 11.14.11 @ 2:44PM

"Perfect fairness and complete objectivity are perhaps an impossible ideal."

Do you really believe, Mr. McCain, that typing "flanked by Gingrich and Texas Rep. Ron Paul" in your blog makes you you more "fair" and "objective" than the gate keepers at CBS that only allowed Ron Paul 90 seconds of air time?

Bill| 11.14.11 @ 2:56PM

Herman Cain is guilty as charged. He refused to take the lie detector test because he knew he would have failed the test and did not want to get caught in public. He is a liar and disgrace political figure. He is going down with his nephew, Obama.

Drunken Sailor| 11.14.11 @ 3:19PM

OK Bill, I get that Cain aint your guy. Fine, but stop hurting your own credibility by pulling a liberal stunt and taking statements out of context.

"Asked why, Cain said, “Why negotiate against yourself? When somebody comes forward and they have a claim against me and they’re willing to take a lie detector test, I’ll take a lie detector test. I’m not gonna take one against anonymous, no documentation. That’s not good business.”

Bill| 11.14.11 @ 3:47PM

Herman Cain is a COWARD.

Bob| 11.14.11 @ 5:03PM

The media isn't just playing favorites, which they obviously are doing. The media moderators are arguing with the candidates and trying to make them perform like little puppets. The current debate model needs to go and there is no possible reason for so many of them. The media is using the debates to make all of the Republicans look bad, except Romney who they want as the opponent. Very white, very liberal, very Mormon, very rich, not anyones regular Joe. He's Mitt.

Dixie Pixie| 11.14.11 @ 6:44PM

Bob....Have you considered the whole point of the OWS movement is to attack Mittens Romney as a Wall Street Plutocrat whose every thought is to exploit and impoverish the Working Class protected by Obama and the Democrats.

Obama started to run a national campaign months ago, based on the idea Mittens would be the Republican candidate.
The MSM certainly looks like it is trying to make it happen.

Bob| 11.14.11 @ 5:04PM

Bill is a dope.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 6:42PM

Not only is he a dope, but he's a liar and insane. He thinks the MSM is pumping Cain up.
LOL.
Yeah, I mean with all those false accusations and all, they're really trying to make him good, eh?

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 6:43PM

LOOK good, that is.

MikeBee| 11.14.11 @ 8:45PM

Evan Wallach is a Democrat judge, originally appointed by Bill Clinton, then to a Court of Appeals seat by Obama. You quote an article he wrote, giving his opinion of what happened in WWII, supported by a couple of POWs from the time.

What is clear is that the Japanese were convicted of war crimes. However, what is mentioned as their war crimes by the U.S. government at the time is NOT waterboarding, but, instead, the much more severe war crimes that they committed against the Chinese, the Koreans, the Philippines, against Guam residents, and against POWs. These war crimes include:
--forced slavery of citizens
--forced sexual slavery of young women
--the slaughtering of civilians outright
--the killing of civilians via forced starvation
--the slaughtering of POWs, as the Japanese ended up with about 70,000 POWs, instead of the 30,000 that they expected to have
--pushing POWs off cliffs for entertainment
--dissecting POWs, and otherwise using POWs for chemical and biological experimentation
--raping young girls in the citizen population

These atrocities are specifically mentioned in the U.S. government's formal declaration of war crimes against the Japanese army. Convictions of Japanese military were for participation in the above crimes, and for lesser war crimes, such as not feeding POWs, providing water to POWs that came from the latrines, etc. Waterboarding is not mentioned in the war crimes at all. It may have happened in WWII; but it was the least of the worries when it came to convicting the Japanese military of war crimes.

cc1022| 11.15.11 @ 8:26PM

So that absolves waterboarding of be torture then. What a specious argument.

POST American| 11.15.11 @ 12:26AM

--------------------BOTTOM LINE----------------------

-STILL waiting for those sellout, TREASON,
'bio-engineering', GMO food, CHEM-trailing,
FUKISHIMA fallout and debt serf generating
'USURY and PSYCHOPATHY' issues.

------------WHENEVER YOU'RE READY------------

cc1022| 11.15.11 @ 8:12PM

Interesting the your article doesn't mention how much time Ron Paul was allotted, seeing as how he only got 90 seconds of speaking time at this "debate". Perhaps you are as guilty of the censoring as CBS is.

Occam's Tool| 11.16.11 @ 2:38AM

Again, my understanding of torture is the "permanent damge, or risk thereof" involved. Waterboarding American style doesn't fit.

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