The American Spectator : Iran on Nuclear Threshold

POST American| 11.11.11 @ 6:13AM

----Putting IRAN to one side for a
moment-----

AS 'Agenda 21' and the Globalist RED China
WORLD TREASON OP, and a full spectrum
police state unfolds ---where's BOLTON?

----------WHERE IS HE?

---------------HUAC/NREMBERG 2012---------------

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 6:49AM

Babbin and Bolton have been chicken littles yelling the sky is falling for many years. There is no evidence at all, that Iran has any nuclear weapons program. Our NIE Report in both 2007 reintererated in 2011 said that Iran had abandoned all such programs in 2003. NIE means National Intelligence Estimate. It was put together by all our combined intelligence services in a revolt against Cheney who was trying to push Bush into a war with Iran. They wanted a clear statement so that Cheney and the other Neocon warmongers could not deliberately misinterpert and lie about their intelligence reports.

The former heads of the Mosaad Meir Dagan and Ephriam Halevey have called an attack on Iran the worst idea ever. That it would lead to tremedous problems that would effect the area for 100 years. They have been joined Yuval Diskin the former head of the Shin Bet and other key members of the Israeli military and security services.

Uri Averny, the old left wing, Israeli writer and soldier in Israel's war for Independence, has said their is zero chance that Iran will be attacked. He believes all this war talk is just an attempt by Netanyahu and his allies, to change the political subject. Israel is having huge rallies right now by people disgusted by the Israeli economy and the money wasted in the settlements and in the military. They want it spent on programs for the Israeli poor aand elderly. I sure hope Uri is right.

They lied us into Iraq. We have to stop them from lying us into a far worse war in Iran. Shalom.

chuck| 11.11.11 @ 7:37AM

Shove your "shalom" Jack, you damned anti-Semite!

Mike W| 11.11.11 @ 9:27AM

Hey deep thinking Chuck- what did Jack state that was anti-semitic?

He thinks attacking Iran is a bad idea? It is. He thinks that we were lied into war in Iraq? We were.

Your simpleton "anti-semitic" card is old and meaningless. In fact, you demean the true victims of anti-semitism with your loose use of the term.

Redstateboy| 11.11.11 @ 10:50AM

Mike W... how were we "lied" to going in to Iraq?
You people are so myopic and stupid. How can I say that? How can I refute every Bananahead who blubbers the same ole tired.. "we were lied to"? With ONE word: Faluja.

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 1:40PM

Wow, that chuck. Talk about a simpleton, right Mike?

Thank goodness there are others like Jack and Clint who understand how clever you are.

Of course, since those in the government media complex have read your post, now you'll have to go into hiding. I mean, what with those pesky "Chaney death squads" hunting you down for publicly revealing the Bush Hitler plot to bomb the world trade center and all, but I guess that's the price a true patriot like you has to pay.

I mean, I thought everyone understood that the evil "Bush Hitler" lied to us into a highly profitable war over oil in the middle east, despite the fact we already receive 80% of our oil from Canada, Venezuela, Mexico, Nigeria, Algeria, Ecuador and England in peaceful fair trade.

Seriously, with all of the information available after the fact, we were "lied into war" is one of the most singularly vacuous and willfully ignorant things anyone can espouse and and you have the nerve to call someone else a simpleton?

Despite the perpetual evil inflicted on the world by muslims, you and the rest of the contemptible lib rabble ask us to believe America is to blame for the vile disease that is Islam. Like that diminutive nut Ron Paul, you believe that if the evil imperialistic America just left "their countries" they would be nice to us.

Since your such a deep thinker Mike, name one place in the entire world where muslims peacefully co-exsist with others. You can't, because neither can they.

It defies belief that you and the other suicidal degenerates of your ilk continue to blindly support the agenda of those who would kill you and everyone you love.

Hello! You can watch muslims chanting to their moon god while physically cutting off the heads of people on the internet, what part of convert or be put to the sword escapes your understanding?

Ronnie| 11.11.11 @ 4:17PM

I don't understand your Muslim bashing as though Muslims have gone around the world invading and killing in the name of their faith. For the past century, it has been Christian democracies that have been the engine of war. In particular, believers in democracy have been on jihad against all other poliitical systems. When Muslims organize armies, leave their homeland and invade other countries you will have a point. Until then, the greatest danger to world peace will continue to be the Western christian democratic states.

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 8:07PM

Retarded long?

Ret. Marine| 11.12.11 @ 5:26AM

I'll give you a thumbs up on this one and to the commentor, a middle finger is in order. Fracken pussie liar. Yeah we were lied right into this war by klinton, bite-me biden, princess pelosi, hildog klinton, name a demonrat party member who was not on the list, all of whom in the prior admistration not only confirmed, but swore under Oath there very same comments and opinions were the Truth and nothing but, the Truth. DouchbagWi. commie boy. Go back a read a few books if you dare.

Jack in Wi| 11.12.11 @ 11:25AM

Ret. Marine: Very intelligent comment. You and Herman Cain are in a class by yourselves. Of course the rabid Zionists Pelosi, Biden, the Clintons, and most other Democrats were voters for the war. Most of those who did not vote for the war, only did it for show, because of their antiwar constituencies. The Democrats were pushing for this war for almost a decade. It was Bush and the Republicans who changed and made this disaster possible.

Ret. Marine| 11.14.11 @ 6:26AM

I was not refering to the pledge to support or lied out way into a war in the middle east, and specifically Iraq, , I was speaking to the fact that one time or another, these scumbag demonrat party members, one and all. stood in the well of the House of preresentative one time or another and quoted Suddam as having and using weapons of mass destruction, only to turn around an tell repeatedly that BUSH LIED, again go read a few books if you dare commine boy.

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:26PM

Mike W---you haven't read all of Jack's posts, have you. Speaking as a Jew, and a Zionist, Jack is a scumbag of the first water. Check out his comments on Jewish Nobelists to see what I mean.

I know who my enemies are, and who I trust my children's protection too. You can take your "delineation" of what constitutes antisemitism and cram it, little ma.

Chuck, thanks for standing strong, sir.

Jack in Wi| 11.12.11 @ 10:55AM

Occam what rock have you been hiding under? Why disturb your Sabbath with your usual hate rants? I suggest you go study the Torah instead. In the Book of Leviticus God tells you Jews to treat the aliens among you as you treat yourselves. Futher along in the book He tells you to. Love your neighbor as yourself. In the Book of Exodus He tells you to. Treat the aliens and strangers among you well for you were once aliens and strangers in the land of Egypt.

The 10 Commandments were given first to you Jews. Then given to the rest of us. Most of you Zionists both Jewish and Christian seem to have forgotten a few of them.
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors property.

Return to the Torah and The Commandments. Give up the false Gods of Zionism, Atheism, Socialism Mammon, Moluch [ love of Abortion ] and Communism. Return to the One True God of all mankind which you Jews brought the whole world's attention to first. Return to the ancient Jewish priciples of Brotherhood., Charity and Peace. Shalom and L. Chaim are fine words. Peace and Life are far better words then War and Death. We should all live by them. Shalom.

chuck| 11.12.11 @ 4:48PM

Jack the Jew-hater tries mask his anti-Semitic beliefs by preaching to us unwashed.
It's not "Thou shall not kill" rather "Thou shall not commit murder". There is a difference. American soldiers fighting to free Europe from Nazism were killing Nazis, not committing murder. Nazis were murdering Jews and others in their death camps. Surely you must know that, as you are the self-proclaimed know-it-all on history and everything. Besides, weren't you a death camp guard in your youth? Or do you just have your own skin-head militia training camp behind your trailer?
And shove your "shalom" up your backside, that is if your head isn't taking up all available space.
We ain't buying it, you damned anti-Semite!

Jack in Wi| 11.12.11 @ 10:06PM

In my Bible it is Thou shalt not kill. Chuckie I am glad that is all you disagree with. Your hate is great why? Love your neighbor Chuckie. It is God's law. Shalom.

chuck| 11.13.11 @ 8:35AM

The original before it was translated and rewritten oh so many times is: "Thou shall not commit murder".
Jack the Jew-hater can shove his "shalom" up his bigoted backside.
You aren't fooling anyone.

Margie| 11.12.11 @ 6:28PM

LOVE includes speaking TRUTH to lies, something that Occam does very excellently here.

That's part of what LOVE is.

It isn't what you breathe.

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 9:49PM

American Spectator's Resident Religious Bigot Supports The Anti-Muslim Maniac,Tool Job.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 11:58AM

Clint,

I SUPPORT the Truth.

Jn. 14:6.

Jack in Wi| 11.13.11 @ 1:42AM

The Truth will set you free, Margie. They are the words of God. Jesus Christ. End the hate in your heart Marge. It is destroying you. Turn to love of your fellow man. Work with the poor, the Muslims, the Mexicans, Catholics. Our God Jesus loves you and will accept your true repentence. You can be saved but you must repent.

chuck| 11.13.11 @ 8:38AM

Jack speaks with a forked tongue.
"Work with the poor, the Muslims, the Mexicans, Catholics. Our God Jesus loves you and will accept your true repentence. "
But he always wants the "Zionist entity" to disappear. And, taken to its logical conclusion, all the Jews who live there.
Anti-Semitic scum talking with his forked tongue.

Jack in Wi| 11.13.11 @ 4:04PM

I want the Zionist entity to vanish and be replaced with a country that is a true Light to the world. a country wher Muslim Jew and Christian have equal rights and responsinilities. I wan it to be the multi ethnic state that itis Jews are barley one half the popualtion of Israel Palistine. The only answer to peaceful integration ala South Africa is genocide or massive ethnic cleansing. That is something my bloodthirsty friend chuckie has long advocated. The HolyLand belongs to the whole world, not just a small group of squabbling Jewish sects. Shalom.

Mike D.| 11.14.11 @ 9:01PM

Who gives a fuck what YOU want. Go buy the world a coke Jackboot. Isreal is here to stay, don't like it? Its going to there long, long after your gone. First off, what don't you learn how to spell the english language. Wher? Wan? responsinilities?

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 11:56AM

Jack & Clint worship a lie. Say Jack the Jew hater~ are you also a Catholic?
It is interesting just how many Catholics hate the Jews.
It's because of what they've been taught.
For example, the false teaching of Supersessionism, which your current Pope adheres to.

Here's a picture of him giving the thumbs up to an Islamist Jew hater.

http://ahmedamiruddin.wordpres.....edict-xvi/

The deceitful scum like you agrees with the Pope.
False teachers deceived and being deceived.

You call love hate and hatred love.

Speaking the truth to deceit is what Jesus did, and it's what I will do always.

Repent, liars.

"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!" Is. 5:20.

"The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

herefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." 2 Thess. 2:9-10.

Repent and believe the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Beginning with Mk.1:1.

Jack in Wi| 11.13.11 @ 4:16PM

Margie Margi, Margie, Your hatred of your fellow man is truely repulsive. Repent and Give yourself to the Lord. Catholics and Muslims are your brothers and sisters. St Peter, a Catholic, is the door keeper of Heaven. Jesus Christ is the founder and still head of the Church. He is Catholic No1. The Pope is His earthly general manger. That is why his office he is still here after 2000 years. The Holy Bible comes from the Catholic Church.There is one Church founded by Jesus Christ, the Catholic Church. Then there are 35,000 Protestant church's, founded and run by , people like the Reverend Ike, Father Divine, Jim Jones, and John Hagee. Mohammed was a dissenter from Catholic teaching. I call him the first Unitarian Protestant.

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 6:03PM

But he replied to the man who told him, "Who is My mother, and who are my brothers?"
And stretching out His Hand toward his disciples, he said, "Here are My mother and my brothers!
For whoever does the will of My Father in Heaven is My brother, and sister, and mother." Mt. 12:48-50.

Sorry Jew hater, but They are not my brethren.
Nor are you.
Whoever does the Will of God are my brethren.

Repent and believe the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Beginning with Mk. 1:1.

TrueBlue| 11.15.11 @ 11:13AM

The commandment is actually "Thou shalt not murder" not "Thou shalt not kill." Only more recent translations have put it as "kill."

Also, treating someone as you treat yourself is all well in good, but if someone is trying to murder you then you are well within your rights to defend yourself.

There was no lying in regards to Iraq, weapon stores were found all over the country (chemical weapons DO count as WMDs). Trucks buried in the desert with their drivers shot and bits and pieces of a nuclear program show intent. Before the first Gulf War Saddam used his chemical weapons ON HIS OWN PEOPLE. Should we have waited for him to get his missiles working well enough to fire those same chemical weapons at one of our allies? Intent and proof of willingness to use them is plenty of reason to go to war.

Thinking Iran won't sell off nuclear bombs to every terrorist organization they can get to attack the US is folly. But I guess it'll take one going off in one of our cities for some people to get it.

Daniel Paul| 11.11.11 @ 11:22AM

This comment should be removed. No value, and it's simply name calling. Calling someone an anti-semite without justifying their position is highly bigoted and grossly impolite.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 11:25AM

Cry us a river.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 11:37AM

I'll provide, you decide!

Jack in Wi| 11.3.11 @ 4:28PM
"I have never writen any anti-semitic coments on this site"

Jack in Wi.| 9.10.11 @ 10:04AM
"Whatever good INDIVIDUAL Jews have done in the world pails in comparission to the bad of the last 200 years. Atheism, communism, Socialism, Nuclear Weapons, expansionist Zionism, nuclear blackmail and abortion"

Allahu Akbar Jackboot

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 12:56PM

It's NOT unjustified.

We know Jack. His words give him away.

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 1:43PM

I know it would probably shock you to learn that was not the first post by that particular anti-Semite.

Oh, and your an idiot.

chuck| 11.11.11 @ 8:44PM

Welcome to AS, Daniel Paul. As a new poster here, you should follow the discussions for a few days before you post your comments. As you must be aware by now,Jack has been posting his anti-Semite bull-s%^& for a long time now, and I refuse to let him get away with closing his comments with "shalom".
Jack is an egotistical moron(read some of his comments further down) who thinks he know more about history and damned near everything, than any other living person. He is also a Ron Paul supporter who thinks that every candidate should clear out of the way so DOCTOR Paul and Romney can debate the issues themselves. That's because the Gospel According to Jack says that only Romney or DOCTOR Paul can beat Obama, and it either Ron Paul for President and Rand Paul for VP, or ruin.
Like I previously stated, a moron.

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:28PM

Well, Daniel, read his entire menu of comments. If you haven't, shut up. He is well known on this blog.

To point out: the UN itself just declared that Iran is working on nukes. THE UN is hardly pro-Israel. Jack is a pig, and a dhimmi.

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 9:51PM

The Screwball Israel Firster Maniac ,Tool Job Is An Anti-Muslim Nut Bag.

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 12:02PM

To the deceitful and deceivers, anyone who speaks the plain truth is labeled a Bigot.

The truth is, anyone who speaks the truth, whether it's about Islam, Mormonism, Buddhism, Catholicism, or any other false Religion, is doing exactly what Jesus did.

He IS the Truth. Jn. 14:6. And He always despised false Religion, and still does.

Joe Mama| 11.11.11 @ 1:08PM

Oh right because we all ACTUALLY believe that the whole issue with Iran is about AMERICA's safety. LOL. Yeah that's it. AMERICA. Not some other country. Better back off Iran, of my bigger, tougher friend will beat you up.

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 8:50PM

LOL, that was sad and oddly pathetic.

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:57PM

Joe:

How many nukes, properly placed, would it take for Iran to cripple America's economy?

If you don't know that the answer to that is one, you don't need to be playing here.

Mike D.| 11.12.11 @ 8:30AM

One EMP burst and were in the stone age. Simple as that.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 7:49AM

"There is no evidence at all, that Iran has any nuclear weapons program"

You're an anti-Semite who has either lost touch with reality or is willfully deceitful.

Take your pick.

Pyrometman| 11.11.11 @ 10:38AM

Nothing that Jack said was anti-semitic. You clearly don't have good reading comprehension skills and you owe Jack an apology.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 10:56AM

I'll provide, you decide!

Jack in Wi| 11.3.11 @ 4:28PM
"I have never writen any anti-semitic coments on this site"

Jack in Wi.| 9.10.11 @ 10:04AM
"Whatever good INDIVIDUAL Jews have done in the world pails in comparission to the bad of the last 200 years. Atheism, communism, Socialism, Nuclear Weapons, expansionist Zionism, nuclear blackmail and abortion"

Allahu Akbar Jackboot

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 11:35AM

I'll provide, you decide!

Jack in Wi| 11.3.11 @ 4:28PM
"I have never writen any anti-semitic coments on this site"

Jack in Wi.| 9.10.11 @ 10:04AM
"Whatever good INDIVIDUAL Jews have done in the world pails in comparission to the bad of the last 200 years. Atheism, communism, Socialism, Nuclear Weapons, expansionist Zionism, nuclear blackmail and abortion"

Allahu Akbar Jackboot

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 12:03PM

Mike D. There is nothing in the least anti-semitic about my comment. It is the simple truth that the whole world knows. It is as I friend to the Jews trying to lead the most lost and warlike of your tribe back to their traditional approach of peaceful relations with all nations of the world and being a positive influence in the world. Your traditional greeting is Shalom. It is a great one to live by. Go back to it. Shalom.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 12:29PM

"There is nothing in the least anti-semitic about my comment"

"Whatever good INDIVIDUAL Jews have done in the world pails in comparission to the bad of the last 200 years. Atheism, communism, Socialism, Nuclear Weapons, expansionist Zionism, nuclear blackmail and abortion"

Allahu Akbar Jackboot

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 3:32PM

The Truth shall set you free, Mike D. God told the Jews in the Book of Leviticus to treat the aliens among you as you treat yourselves. Further along he tells you to love your neighbors as yourselves. In the Book of Exodus he tells you Jews to treat the aliens and strangers well. For after all you were once aliens and strangers in the land of Egypt. Get back to the Torah. Get back to God.

Give up the horrible false god's of Zionism, Atheism. lovers of abortion, Communism, Socialism, Nuclear Weapons and Nuclear blackmail. You have quit the One True God for these false and terrible gods. Make peace with your neighbors the Palistinians. They are your relatives. Most have Jewish ancestors. Return to those great phrases of the Jews.L Chaim and Shalom. Life and peace are alot better then Death and War. Again Shalom and Brotherhood.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 4:04PM

Jack in Wi| 11.3.11 @ 4:28PM
"I have never writen any anti-semitic coments on this site"

Jack in Wi.| 9.10.11 @ 10:04AM
"Whatever good INDIVIDUAL Jews have done in the world pails in comparission to the bad of the last 200 years. Atheism, communism, Socialism, Nuclear Weapons, expansionist Zionism, nuclear blackmail and abortion"

Allahu Akbar Jackboot

Jackboot get some new material, please, at least something vaguely entertaining. You quoting any religious text is frankly sickening. Then we have the false Prophets, see if that shoe fits.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 5:08PM

He also said that the Sons of Ishmael (that would be the Arabs) would be like "wild, untamed donkeys."

This means stubborn AND dumb, their own worst enemies.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 12:57PM

I owe "Jack the anti-Semite" nothing.

My assessment of his anti-Semitism is based on FAR MORE than this article.

Don't like it? Tough.

RCV| 11.11.11 @ 2:33PM

Jack is a great admirer and defender of one of America's most notorious anti-Semites, Father Coughlin. He's cut from the same shameful cloth.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 2:40PM

Some of his bilge is almost word for word.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 3:36PM

I have never seen much of any antisemitism from Father Coughlin. He was telling the truth and trying to stop a world war. He also was against the Federal Reserve. Of course being against the War and the Central Bank is antisemiticism. He is on U Tube go decide for yourself.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 4:13PM

I wouldn't expect you would see much anti-Semitism in the priest if you already are one. Why would I expect you to not admire the guy.
Your obsessed with your Jewish paranoa, nothing I can do about it but help illustrate what an anti-semite looks, acts, and talks like. Don't know whether I loathe you or feel sorry for somebody as deep into a psychosis as you are. You truly beleive you are convincing anybody with this bilge is really the biggest farce of the whole thing.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 5:05PM

I am obsessed with peace. love, justice, and charity to the poor. You are obsessed with war and hate. Return to those great Jewish values of peace, love, and brotherhood. Shalom. Have a good Sabbath.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 5:48PM

No what you are obsessed with is self evident to anybody who reads it. And Allahu Akbar.

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:58PM

Father Coughlin's followers used to beat the shit out of Jews, jack. Of course, this you did not know.

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 9:03AM

Uh Oh !
ObamaBoy Israel Firster RCV Attempts To Play His Dog Eared Anti-Semite Card.

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:29PM

Pryo: you, dumbass, are a fool. Search Jack and Jews on this site. My Kabar has told me to NEVER apologize to Jack or Clint.

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 9:05AM

Screwball Israel Firster Maniac Tool Job Is A Blatant Anti-Muslim Bigot.

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.11.11 @ 10:48AM

How many lives would have been saved, had Hitler been stopped, before he got started? I can think of 6 Million, right off the top of my head.

How many innocent men, women and children were SACRIFICED, because the World refused to take Action, at the Beginning?

Hitler's men had orders to turn around and come back home, if the British or the French showed up as they marched into the "Sudetenland". It could have been over, before it ever began. Chamberlain thought that a Piece of Paper would suffice, in the place of Armed Might. Diplomacy. That's what "Civilized Nations" engaged in. To do otherwise, made one a "Cowboy" and someone of a lesser pedigree.

"If one fails to LEARN from History. He is DOOMED to repeat it."

Iran could have been eliminated, as a threat, YEARS ago. Long before they began their quest for a Bomb. But, nobody had the stomach. There was too much at stake. Oil. Oil Contracts. Money. We had gone through Desert Storm. We had been attacked, all over the Globe. Including, here at home. TWICE. We fought them in Afghanistan, and in Iraq. We've lost a lot of good people, but it is NOTHING compared to what will be lost, if the Psycho Shrimp, with the Robert Hall "Back to School Wardrobe" gets his wish. MILLIONS will Die because we have Leadership, in this Country, that believes that a well mannered, Ivy League Lawyer, with a Portfolio and Piece of Paper, is just as persuasive as any Fleet of Warships, any Tank Battalions, and any Squadron of Fighter Jets, any day of the week.

We will have "Peace In Our Time", right up until IRAN fires its' first Ballistic Missile.

But, hey. It's not like we could have seen this coming or anything.
Could we?

Redstateboy| 11.11.11 @ 10:54AM

Tim... you are incorrect.. it is false that German soldiers reoccupying the Rheinland were ordered to retreat if encountering resistance. They infact were instructed to resist and..., I suspect, they let the French know in advance, that although the Germans would lose - it would be ugly.

Blackwatch| 11.13.11 @ 1:06PM

The Rhineland re-militarization by the Nazi's was 1936. The take over of the Sudetenland ---Czech & Slovak republics was 1938.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 3:45PM

Timothy J. Pennell. Ya! Iran would have been a cakewalk. It would have soon been mission accomplished. We had to attack and kill millions on the off chance that backward Iran may one day get a bomb that it can't do anything with. We should just turn over our miltary lock stock and barrel to the Israeli high comand. So that they can use us as cannon fodder forever to protect them in the neighborhood they stole. Iran is a threat to no one, if left alone.

The only answer to Iran is the one we did with China. Send an ambassador, negotiate our difereces tothe best ofour abilities and end sanctions and trade with them.

chuck| 11.11.11 @ 8:58PM

The Chinese, unlike the Iranians, are not led by a bunch of religious fanatics, bent on foisting their religious beliefs on the rest of the world. Muslims believe it is their right and duty to convert, kill, or enslave the infidels. As a "infidel", I believe it is my right to make sure they don't.
Jack, for an intelligent man, you are willfully ignorant.
It is really sad to see such a waste.
And you're still a damned anti-Semite, but I'll pray for you.

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:31PM

The answer to Iran, which is an untrustworthy country that has declared war on us 31 years ago with a cowardly act and is still killing Americans and threatening Americans even in Washington, DC, is to destroy their capacity to wage war.

Ryan| 11.11.11 @ 8:13AM

How is the known funding and supply of insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the apparent push for influence over the "Arab Spring" explained, then? Is Iran just sitting on its laurels doing nothing?

Sorry. Iran is directly funding and attempting to spread its particular version of Islam. Their numbers, I believe, are actually fewer than we realize at times, but they are proven aggressors.

If we removed every bit of funding from Israel, pulled every troop back and left the area, would Iran leave everyone alone?

Joe Mama| 11.11.11 @ 1:11PM

They'd leave America alone.

And if they didn't, they'd be in for one heck of a slap from a powerful national defense force that wasn't stretched thin from policing the World. Golly!

Ryan| 11.11.11 @ 1:43PM

I don't believe that, and I think there is evidence to the contrary. Islam desires dominance - which is why they are attempting to populate Europe as well. Be it ten years or a hundred, another, far more bloody, confrontation with Islam would ensue.

Islam is in direct cultural conflict with the West. Always has been, and has always sought to expand. It's NOT insular.

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 1:47PM

Guess what you ignorant oxygen thieving waste of human skin "they" are already here. You are too stupid to live, just convert to Islam now and make it easier for them.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 2:57PM

Sure, like the way they left our embassy alone in '79.

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:32PM

Joe, please explain how their assault on our embassy in 1979 was related to our realtionship with Israel, you microcephalic. I suspect that you are Clint, because he, too, is a drooling moron.

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 9:54PM

Paranoid Screwball Israel Firster Maniac, Tool Job Thinks Joe Mama Is Tea Party Clint.

I Got $ 1000.00 That Says That Wasn't My Post.

Put Up Or Shut Up Maniac, Tool Job.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 8:21AM

I see Jack, our resident Mullah-funded troll has seen fit to still profess that Iran poses no threat. Thank you, Jack. Neville Chamberlain called, he wants his gig back.

Oh, & take your "shalom" & stick it up your tuchus, Herr Douchebag.

chuck| 11.11.11 @ 9:05PM

Thanks Con Chef! I need all the help I can get to make sure Jack gets his when he ends his posts with "shalom".

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:33PM

Chuck, you and Con are blessings to us all here.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 10:06AM

there is no evidence? really? where did ou get your blinders from? or were you born willfully blind and stupid.

i bet you would have been buddy buddy with neville chamberlain back in the 1930s and 1940s.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 10:09AM

bwahahahahahahahaha! so Israel has been infested with American PC bleeding heart libturds. just like the morons at OWC, give me, give me, give me. its mine!

gutless swine is all you are

Alan Brooks| 11.11.11 @ 2:16PM

"The mullahs are evil, not stupid."

America is evil, too- but we have the bigger guns.

Anthony| 11.11.11 @ 7:16PM

"America is evil, too". Brooksie, you are one sick bastard.Why don't you leave and go to the nation paradise of your desire?
But you won't, because scum like you talk a good game of trash talking America, but know where the only freedom in this world can be found, like the vermin that constitute OWS.
Hey moron, check out that fat bastard Michael Moore's home; yeah, the same clown who talks against the so-called 1%s, yet look at his Michigan lake side home on Drudge.
I look forward to the coming revolution contemplated by the OWS crowd, who now have contracted TB, YES!!!
We need to do some serious ass-kicking in this country. Brooksie, better get on the back of vtwin's tricycle and get while the getting's still good.

Herman | 11.11.11 @ 5:42PM

I Will Vote For Me.

http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/.....1/whoa.jpg

Studs Dupa| 11.12.11 @ 6:51PM

Hi,

I had seen John Bolton on the Red Eye on the FOX news channel on two occasions. He may show up on that show in the near future. The scary thing about his appearance on the show is that he smiles and laughs.

Love,

Studs

RON PAUL 2012

Studs Dupa| 11.12.11 @ 6:52PM

Hi,

I had seen John Bolton on the Red Eye on the FOX news channel on two occasions. He may show up on that show in the near future. The scary thing about his appearance on the show is that he smiles and laughs.

Love,

Studs

RON PAUL 2012

Clinton| 11.11.11 @ 6:27AM

This could have been avoided if President Reagan had acted effectively and aggressively when Iranian surrogates murdered our Marines and Sailors in Beirut. Even worse Reagan helped end the Iran-Iraq war how stupid was that? Muslims thugs killing Muslim extremists is always good for the world.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 6:53AM

Reagan was right. He wrote in his memoirs that he realized that the people had been fighting for thousands of years and it was best if the USA had little to do with the area. He saw enough blood shed by a bad decision and he corrected his mistake.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 8:24AM

The idiots in Iran believe that they can bring about the return of the Mahdi & the 12 Imam by causing armmaggeddon. Then they will be able to build the worldwide caliphate. This is what THEY believe. And you think Ronnie would've let them nuke up?

Put the bong down, islamophile.

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 9:20AM

Ronald Reagan,
" Perhaps we didn't appreciate fully enough the depth of the hatred and the complexity of the problems that made the Middle East such a jungle. Perhaps the idea of a suicide car bomber committing mass murder to gain instant entry to Paradise was so foreign to our own values and consciousness that it did not create in us the concern for the marines' safety that it should have.

In the weeks immediately after the bombing, I believe the last thing that we should do was turn tail and leave. Yet the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics forced us to rethink our policy there. If there would be some rethinking of policy before our men die, we would be a lot better off. If that policy had changed towards more of a neutral position and neutrality, those 241 marines would be alive today."

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 9:23AM

Clint the Ru Paul Fellatio Tsar Canned Post Number 33.

Good job, Clint.

"I Still Work Out & Train.

Wanna Make Somethin' Of It Drunk Pussy?

Hmmmm ?"

You sound like some greaser douchebag extra from The Jersey Shore. Did you "train" at Penn State in the shower, too? Or were you the one teaching the kiddies to "train?" I love cyber pansies who threaten to beat people up over the internet. You people are funnier than "Eddie Murphy: Raw!"

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 9:29AM

Please...

Don't insult the GREAT State of New Jersey by associating us with morons like Clint.

Clint is your typical, rural dolt from Pennsylvania

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 9:36AM

Joisey, The Door Mat To Pennsylvania.

The RINO-CINO Dr.Reich Said He Will Vote For The RINO-CINO Frontman, Mittens Romney.

We Are Being Set Up By RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 9:46AM

Clint the Ru Paul Fellatio Tsar Canned Post Number 3.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 10:21AM

America's UGLIEST people...

Found in Pennsylvania, for 3 straight years.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com.....65062.html

It's likely that Clint "helped" them achieve this distinction.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 10:22AM

ROBO-POST ALERT!

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 4:19PM

Clint you ignorant bitch. Go back to playing with your anatomically correct Ron Paul doll.

Clint | 11.13.11 @ 12:34AM

Bibi ButtBoy Bone Hunter,You Ignorant Slut, Go Back And Play Hide The Bone With Bibi.

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:36PM

Clint, the supporter of child rapist enabler Joe Paterno. Clint, the human douche bag. Clint, who always calls me out until I start mentioning that he is unfit to be around children. Clint, the middle section of "the human centipede."

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 11:04PM

Uh Oh !
Screwball Israel Firster Maniac Tool Job Attempts To Slander Tea Party Clint, For The Umpteenth Time.

Here In Pennsylvania, We Know The Facts, As They Are Coming Out In Layers.
Joe Pa Fired Sandusky At The End Of The 1999 Season. The Incident Occurred In 2002.

Sandusky Had University Approved Emeritus Professor Priviledges With Access To The Athletic Facilties. Sandusky Was Not Under JoePa's Authority And Didn't Like The Fact That JoePa Canned Him.

Coach Mike McQueary Saw The Incident Late In An Empty Shower Area,Where No One Else Was Arounsd, Scooted Into His Office , Called His Dad & His Dad Said, " Get Out Of The Building". He Did & Went To His Dad & Didn't Tell JoePa Until The Next Day, When McQueary Called JoePa & Said He Needed To Talk To Hiim.
McQueary Went To JoPa's Home The Next Day & Reported The Incident To JoePa. JoePa Went To His Boss, Athletic Director Tim Curley And Reported It.

That's How It Went Down.

Get Lost Creep.

Clint | 11.13.11 @ 12:41AM

Then, Tool Job Is The Supporter Of Rapist Former Israeli President Moshe Katzav.

"JERUSALEM — Israel's Supreme Court on Thursday ordered former President Moshe Katsav to spend seven years in prison after rejecting the disgraced politician's appeal of a rape conviction and other sex crime

The unanimous decision of the three-judge panel capped a long and sordid chapter in Israeli politics that captured the country's attention for more than five years and ended with Katsav becoming the highest-ranking Israeli official ever sentenced to prison. He is to start serving his sentence on Dec. 7.

Katsav, 65, was convicted last December of raping a former employee when he was a Cabinet minister and of sexually harassing two other women during his term as president from 2000 to 2007. He received a seven-year prison sentence in March, but was allowed to stay out of jail pending his appeal."

Hand In Your Resignation From Your Bottom Of The Barrel, Government Shrink Job. Tool Job.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 9:36AM

I was comparing him to the cast of that show that has put your home state in such a bad light. Sorry, Doc.

Mike Hawk| 11.11.11 @ 9:00PM

Please rethink that Dr. Right. If Clint croaked tomorrow and was buried in PA, there would be an eathquake when the ground rejected him. PA and the Tea Party have nothing in Common with the jerk

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 9:29AM

More Queer Talk Form The Neo-Chickenhawk Bibi ButtBoy, Con Job.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 9:32AM

I'm not the one making excuses for Joe Pa, asshole. But if you apologize for Islam, I guess you could apologize for someone who knew of child rape, but didn't report it to the cops. Must be a libertarian thing.

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 9:44AM

You're The Neo-Chickenhawk Israel Firster Traitor Bastard Bibi ButtBoy, Who Thinks The Little Israel Tail Can Wag The American Big Dog.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 9:50AM

Yeah. I'm a "traitor." Because I support Israel. Was I a "traitor" when I supported the Brits in the Falklands too, or am I only a "traitor" because I'm a Jew & support Israel?

When will you come to Pittsburgh & say that to my face? After you get done "training?"

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 9:58AM

You Threatenin' Me In Public You Little Punk?

Hmmmmmm Cupcake ?

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:04AM

I merely asked you when you were gonna come to Pittsburgh & say something to my face. How's that a "threat?" I don't make threats in cyberspace like you, Mr. "I Still Train."

Drop me a line next time you're in town:

DTFrankel79@gmail.com

We'll see if you're really the gold plated douchebag everyone here thinks you are, or if you can sit down over a cigar, bottle of Blantons & some BB King & be a rational person.

No, Clint. I leave the "I'm gonna kick your ass" tag lines for you.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:05AM

And even if I was, what the hell are YOU gonna do? Fart on your monitor & kill me with the stank through cyberspace?

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 10:17AM

Just Like I Figured, You're A Keyboard Coward Just Like You're An Israel Firster Neo-Chickenhawk Coward Traitor Bastard Con Job.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:24AM

Ok, Clit. Come visit

1212 Hillsdale Ave
Pittsburgh, PA 15216

Bring manners & we can have drinks. Bring your usual self & you'll be leaving feet first with a face full of 12 gague flechettes.

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 10:41AM

No I Won't Little Gutless Coward Punk.

If You Make Me Defend Myself ,You'll Never Hear The Man Count Ten.
I've Dropped Your Kind Of Trash Talkin' Toughie Girls Inside & Outside The Ring.

Bring It, Cupcake.

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 8:56PM

You dropped someone? Ha Ha the only thing you ever drop is the soap Clint. Ill bet 30 to 1 on the Con Chef any takers?.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 8:27PM

Clint, you are a gutless coward. You are a Ron Paul Supporter. But I repeat myself.

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 11:06PM

Tool Job, You Are An Insane Israel Firster Maniac.

W| 11.11.11 @ 10:47AM

CON CHEF,
you live in Dormont? I am in south hills also, are you near Davios and Lunardi?

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:50AM

Yep. I DO live the "The 'Mont." Not too far from Davio's. Its a few trolley stops down.

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 4:41PM

Con Chef; I do not understand why you even lower yourself to talk to Clint the Ron Paul coward.

Every since I woke him up to the fact that although he was safe behind a keyboard, he might possibly learn how to engage in polite and manly discourse if he ever took off his depends and got out from behind his computer.

Unfortunately, all I did was embolden him when he discovered he could challenge actual grown men he will never meet and never have to back it up.

In real life, you just know the only thing Clint would do is start yelling, "Not in the face! Not in the face!" while prancing around and flailing his arms.

Defend himself? Clint can't even defend his own political positions, he just calls names. You gotta just imagine how comical and pathetic Clint the little name calling metro-sexual is in real life. Good grief, he idealizes Ron Paul.

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 10:53AM

You Just Threatened To Shoot Me In Public With A Dart Load,Ya Little Keyboard Coward.

Let's See Ya Try It, Keyboard Coward.

I Can Defend Myself Against Both Your Coward Mouth & Your Little Toy Gun, Coward.

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 4:23PM

Clint you ignorant bitch. Go back to playing with your anatomically correct Ron Paul doll.

Alan Brooks| 11.11.11 @ 2:29PM

"1212 Hillsdale Ave
Pittsburgh, PA 15216"

Eh? 1313 Mockingbird Lane?

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 8:54PM

I love it when you talk sexy like that. Flechettes is that french?

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 1:00PM

He just gave you his e-mail and address, Clint!

No more excuses, tough-girl!

Looks like you need to be on the next train to Pittsburgh...unless you want to look like a coward.

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 3:17PM

We Heard Dr.Reich Pulled A Train In Pittsburgh.

That's Why They Call Him "Choo Choo "In Pittsburgh.

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:42PM

He just gave you his address, douchebag. You, on the other hand, can't be found. Hmmm...

Con, should I find myself in Pitt, I might just see you and introduce you to the world's two cutest kids and my better half. You are always welcome in Northern Minnesota to try out the Walleye.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 12:58PM

Yeah, looks like he is.

He's callin' you out, Clint.

No more hiding behind your keyboard. Girl up!

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 3:22PM

Still Hidin' In Joisey, Dr.Reich.

You're Scared Of The tea Party & Our Co-Favorite Presidential Candidate Dr.Ron Paul.

Boo !

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:39PM

Clint, you are a bully and a butt boy for terrorists. You are not fit to be around children. Never mention mine.

Incidentaklly, it is difficult to know if your home base is in PA or CA. Are you just a 13 year old sockpuppet?

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 11:10PM

Tool Job, You Are A Neo-Chickenhawk Coward & An Israel Firster Bibi ButtBoy.

You Are Not Fit To Be Around Your Significant Other, Billy, The Goat.

We Heard That You Beat Off In Your Sock Puppet, Wooley The SockBoy.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 10:22AM

ROBO-POST ALERT!

Joe Mama| 11.11.11 @ 1:18PM

LOL must be a libertarian thing? What does that even mean? Ah well. Matters not. I'd be grumpy and defensive too if I was in the old guard boat with Santorum and the rest of the aging neocon zealots. Enjoy your sunset cruise. We're taking our party back. Democracy is a bitch, ain't it!

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 2:38PM

We're not a democracy, genius...we're a republic.

Anthony| 11.11.11 @ 7:22PM

Dear Doctor R, Unfortunately, nitwit Joe Mama is more right than his thimble sized brain knows.
We now are an America governed by the mob rule of the left.

George S| 11.11.11 @ 8:26AM

Sure, blame the guy who tried to fix things instead of the guy who all made it possible in the first place: Carter.

Stormzeye| 11.11.11 @ 9:16AM

I agree Clinton. Reagan should have bombed the Bekkaa Valley after the murder of 241 of our soldiers, sailors and marines. This was 28 years ago and was the largest loss of life to terrorism before the civilian slaughter of September 11th. When Reagan turned tail and ran, as Clinton did in Somalia, the message was received loud and clear in Tehran.
Now we are faced with the prospect of this savage band of apocalyptic mullahs possessing weaponized and deliverable nuclear devices. Had Obama supported the popular uprisings in Iran two years ago perhaps the mullahs would have been overthrown. Unfortunately, Obumbler's fecklessness will probably result in military action, astronomical oil prices and further instability in the most volatile region in the world. God help us.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 10:11AM

clit that weighs a ton.

i was in Beruit. you have no idea what you are talking about. but what else would one expect from a gutless coward.

it was your BOY CARTERT who armed afghanistan you dumb as shat twit.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:18AM

What Clit knows about military matters couldn't fill a thimble.

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 10:31AM

Then Tell Us About The Mercedes Truck That Israel Intelligence Was Following & Deliberately Withheld That Intel From Our Military, Which Blew Our Fine Marine Warriors To Hell.

You're Up Gutless Coward.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:43AM

He was there, douchebag. Were YOU?

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 11:05AM

Well Sniffer,
Then let Miss Devil Dog Tell Us All About Israel Intelligence Withholding Info About The Mercedes Truck From Our Military,Which Got Our Real Warrior Teufelhunden Blown To Hell In Their Barracks.

He's Up .

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 4:44PM

LOL, damn boy, I would love to see the ass whippin you would take if you ever met any of those you disparage. What a despicable coward.

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:44PM

We were ignoring Israeli intelligence from top to bottom, Clit. We went in their to support PLO scumbags thanks to idiots like you, Clit.

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 11:13PM

You're A Traitor Bastard Israel Firster Liar,Tool Job.

Israeli Intelligence Deliberately Withheld That Intelligence From Our Military & Got Our Marines Blown To Hell, You Traitor Bastard Scum.

John786| 11.11.11 @ 6:52AM

Mr babins. A fanatic of the nth order. But he is right that an attack against iran would have to maximal. A war of annihilation against Persia. To ensure minimal blowback. Once you enrich uranium to 2% -there is nothing technically stoping you going to 100%. To note: during the iran - Iraq war Europe-Us supplied sad dam with chemical weapons to target Iranian cities. The mullahs did not respond in kind. Always puzzled me, them being allegedly mad, irrational. It's obvious that the politicised IAEA report is rehashed information. One thing is for sure unless Iran is wiped of the map: they will start a nuclear weapons programs. That would take months once the political will is there. A self fulfilling prophesy. Maybe a grand bargin is a better way forward. End sanctions, normalise all contact. Just a suggestion. Then again if your of the rapturing kind. Bring it on not.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 7:04AM

Right: Send an Ambassador to Iran, end all sanctions, and negotiate and try to solve our differences. Iran has always had good relations with the Jewish people going back thousands of years. Even today Iran has the largest Jewish population left in the Muslim world, 25000. They could leave at any time but don't. Peace, trade, and negotiation is the only sane answer in this modrn world. War has no place anywhere. Shalom.

chuck| 11.11.11 @ 7:35AM

"Iran has always had good relations with the Jewish people going back thousands of years."

Contrast this with the nutcase there vowing to wipe Israel off the map.

You're an utter fool. Anyone can see that.

And you're not fooling anyone with your "shalom" BS, you damned anti-Semite.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 10:13AM

Chuck: You fall for the crackpot Zionist propaganda. The correct quote is the Zionist entity will vanish from the earth. He has always spoken well of Jews himself. The Zionist entity will vanish peacefully, we hope, like the Soviet Union, not like the Nazi entity in fire and brimstone.

I have made it no secret, that I believe the only long term solution in Israel Palistine is one state with equal rights for all. That also would include massive reparation payments to the Palistinians for all the theft, murder, and torture of the last 63 years. Hopefully the Jews in Israel will come to the same conclusion, just like the South African whites.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 10:26AM

"The Zionist entity will vanish peacefully, we hope, like the Soviet Union"

So what you're saying, Jack, is that you want the State of Israel to disappear.

Jack, you despicable coward...why don't you just have the courage of your convictions and come out and SAY IT???

You remind me of Himmler. Always so strident and forceful, but when it came down to his ass, he fled like a coward and tried to disguise himself as a lowly soldier...

...Then he poisoned himself before he was put on trial.

Because he was a coward. Like you, Jack. A sniveling little coward spouting his anti-Semitic drivel from the anonymity of a keyboard.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:29AM

I like Jack's speeches in the original "Cherman."

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 10:45AM

Thats right I want Israel aand Palistine to be one country with equal rights for all. That of course, can only happen, if the Jewish people in Israel, like the South African whites see the light.

The most out spoken group in the fight against both Apartheid and American segregation were the Jews of those countries. It is time to practice what you have preached. End the Terror. End the Hate, Integrate the Israeli State.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:48AM

Maybe you can show me on a map where this "palestine" place is. Never seen it on any map. I know where Israel is though.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:24AM

Palistine has been on the map for 2000 years, ever since the Roman Emperor Hadrian renamed the place.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 11:28AM

Do you know WHY he re-named it, Herr Jack?

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 12:53PM

We'll just have to get rid of that pesky IDF, IAF, Nuclear arsenal first, and then we can get on with running the Jews out of the Middle east. Great Stuff.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 1:03PM

End the terror?

You're a clown.

Dave Williams| 11.11.11 @ 1:09PM

Anyone who uses the word "Zionist" has already revealed himself as anti-Semitic scum....no reason to waste any more time reading further.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 2:01PM

Thats the code word for ZOG's.

John786| 11.11.11 @ 6:53PM

Dave
What do you mean. Isreal is based on Zionist ideology. That's is a fact. To question this ideology is not anti- semitism. The problem with Zionism is its inability to move from the colonial mindet prevalent among europeans of the 18th 19th centuries. It's inability to see Palestinians as fellow human beings.

Margie| 11.11.11 @ 7:59PM

Dave W.,

As fellow recent transplants to Ohio, my husband and I say, greetings fellow conservative Christian!

We know and understand the anti-semite's usage if the word "Zionist."

Ever post over at the site called Zionica? Whoowee. There are some so-called Christians there who let us have it with both barrels there for defending Israel.

Sadly, many are super deceived who even bear the Name of Christ!

Dave Williams| 11.11.11 @ 1:09PM

Anyone who uses the word "Zionist" has already revealed himself as anti-Semitic scum....no reason to waste any more time reading further.

VBMax| 11.11.11 @ 8:27PM

"The correct quote is the Zionist entity will vanish from the earth. He has always spoken well of Jews himself."

This is the dumbest interpretation of an insane Islamist's rhetoric that I've seen in a long time.
They are commanded to destroy the Jews by their so-called religion. I might have thought you were a useful idiot, that being someone unknowingly spreading propaganda. But I believe you know exactly what you're doing.

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:46PM

Yeah, and the Palis would leave the unarmed Jews alive...I think not, Jack, you Stormfront asswipe.

Yes, Mahmoud likes individual Jews, and Jews as a relifgion...like saying the Holocaust was a myth...by the way, what is your view on the Holocaust's factual validity, Jack?

chuck| 11.12.11 @ 7:40AM

I'm sure Jew-hating Jack read several books proving that the Holocaust is a Zionist myth.

You know the more he rants, the more I believe he is either an old Nazi guard from a death-camp, or just an idiot skin-head with his own "training camp" behind his mobile home.

Mike D.| 11.12.11 @ 8:50AM

What he is is a pathetic old man, with a lifelong obsession with Jews thats become a certifiable psychosis. Only a true nutjob could take a debate about abortion and turn it into an anti-semetic anti-Jewish rant. Never seen too many that take mental masturbating themselves like this pathetic loser and somehow turn it into an artform. I have punked this clown's BS takes on History so many times its almost like shooting ducks in a barrel.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 7:52AM

So you're actually comparing the treatment of the Jews in ancient Persia under Cyrus the Great (who was not a Muslim; Islam didn't even exist) to modern day Islamic Iran???

You're ignorant of history and current events. And you're a liar.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:27AM

I know more about history and current events then anyone on this site including the editors. You Dr. Wrong are a dunce on all subjects. I live by the word the truth will set you free. I say to you liar, liar, pants on fire.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 12:46PM

"I know more about history and current events then anyone on this site including the editors"

All right, the debates are over, Jack knows more than anybody. Lets cut the shit out everybody, its over, get down on your knees and bow before the all NEW oracle at Delphi. God himself has revealed his plans to Jackboot. Jackboot has books in his basement, its done. No Maas, no maas. LOL!

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 1:05PM

LOL!

Yeah...You're soooooooo smart, jack!

You've advised ALL the great men of history!

What a joke! You've fallen en for the Paul/Rockwell/Scheuer line of baloney about foreign affairs.

Plus, you're an anti-Semite.

Not too smart, Jackie...

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:49PM

Jack, that's about the intellectual sophistication you show. Hard to tell if that's a parody of you or the actual thing.

Dr R...you continue to demonstrate why you are a "righteous gentile." One of these days there might end up in your PO Box a certificate for 18 trees bought in your name in Eretz Yisroel. Just sayin....

You know, except for about five idiots, this site is pretty sweet...

Ryan| 11.11.11 @ 8:15AM

They won't let up. "To ensure minimal blowback" is like saying "When you pay the Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane."

Iran wants to control and conquer the area, and the Mullahs want the Jews dead for religious reasons.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 10:18AM

Total and complete nonsense. Israel wants all powers in the region to kow tow to it, just like the American Congress does. The Mullahs and the people of Iran have attacked no one, in hundreds of years. Unlike the Israeli's and their insane Rabbi's who think Israel should be from the Nile to the Euphrates

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 10:27AM

You would NEVER have the courage to say any of this nonsense publicly, or to anyone you know.

They'd laugh in your face and disown you.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 10:37AM

I say it all the time including to Jewish people, I know. Most Jews by polling, were aginst the attack on Iraq. Many Jews are against illegal and immoral attack on Iran, including 2 ex Mossad chiefs and a former head of the Sin Bet.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 12:55PM

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:27AM
I know more about history and current events then anyone on this site including the editors.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 1:06PM

Mike D.,

Jack is the PERFECT Paul-voter.

Anti-Semitic, a chip on his shoulder, and an ego that doesn't match his accomplishments.

In other words, a malcontent.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 2:06PM

I think a Neo-Nazi version of Walter Mitty might be a better description. A true legend in his own mind. The nutjob actually believes he convinces people with this lunacy, thats dillusional stuff we are talking about here. I love this stuff he posts, it really illustrates what an obsession is and how he filters everything through it.

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:55PM

Shin Bet. And you know about two Jews or less, I imagine. Wisconsin is not a great kosher powerhouse. Milwaukee has the largest number of Jews in Wi, with a population of 23000. Live outside of there and the number drops dramatically.

In short, Jack, I suspect that you lie.

Mike D.| 11.12.11 @ 8:55AM

Like I said, Jackboot is still known in the old Jewish hood as the "Anti-Semite on the Roof"

Mike in Tampa| 11.11.11 @ 3:08PM

We’ve been conditioned by the media and politicians to link America’s security to that of Israel’s. Anyone who speaks the logically about the counterproductive association is scorned an “anti-Semite.” Of what concern is it to any non-Jewish American whether Israel holds its territory or not, or whether Palestinians get their homeland or not? History is rife with tales of nations rising and falling – the strong survive, the weak are absorbed. Our presence in that backward region is a threat to American security. Our constant interference on behalf of Israel and corporate oil interests creates ever-growing numbers of enemies – enemies who rightfully resent our interference, destruction and murder of their kinsmen in the name of…What? Protection of “our greatest allay? What benefit has been derived by the average, non-Jewish American from America’s association with Israel?
So what if Iran gets a nuclear weapon, or ten? Any country has the right to defend itself. Iran’s sovereignty has been undermined for generations by the West, yet, aside from support for those groups that fight against their aggressors, Iran has attacked no one militarily. They have every right to want to build weapons, nuclear or other, as a deterrent, or as a means to defend themselves. They also should have a right to support the efforts of any nations or groups they consider allies in a battle against those who they perceive as enemies. I have a hard time finding any way that Israel acts as a friend to any of its neighbors.
I’m sick and tired of Americans being forced to listen to the propaganda; forced to feel guilty for questioning our foreign policy in the Middle East; forced to give money and our young soldiers’ lives for the support of a country strong enough and wealthy enough to take care of its own damned business.

VBMax| 11.11.11 @ 8:31PM

Yes, you might suppose that anyone supporting the Muslim death cult over the only free democracy in the middle east (Israel) would be in danger of being called an anti-semite.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 8:31PM

Well, Mike in Tampa, the Israelis have offered time and again to spend their specially equipped dig out teams to assist Iran after earthquakes, and Iran has time and again refused. You don't read or know much, do ya.

Ryan| 11.11.11 @ 1:46PM

Wrong. Islam has been funding and supplying terrorists and Islamist movements for years. Their equipment has constantly been used in attacking US Soldiers, Israel, and others from the West.

Doc| 11.11.11 @ 9:03PM

One Muslim nation in particular being Saudi Arabia, our so-called "best friend" among Muslim nations. Of course they never tell you that on the news because they want everyone to believe Saudi Arabia is full of good guys when in fact Azouzi or any of his hack Wahabbi friends would gladly sell your head to the Taliban for six prostitutes in Morrocco.

OregonBuzz| 11.11.11 @ 9:24AM

I don't know what you're smokin' up there in Wi, but I sure don't want any. Shades of Neville Chamberlain.

Bydand76| 11.11.11 @ 11:01AM

Oregon,

Not all of Wisconsin is like Jack.......

Gov. Scott Walker.
New voter ID & Conceal /Carry laws.
Reforming the public unions....

The World Champion Green Bay Packers!!

just saying

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:19AM

Seeing that I was a big Scott Walker supporter what is your point? All I can say is that a prowar, probankster Republican nominee will decimate the Republican party in this state. No such candidate can ever be elected in this country again. It is Ron Paul or ruin.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:22AM

I am also a Packer Fan for 60 years who met Vince Lombardi. I Used to drink with Max McGee in his saloon. I met a lot of the old Packers, mostly in bars.

Bydand76| 11.11.11 @ 11:37AM

I grew up watching those guys.

Look for me on the field this Monday night @ Lambeau.... I will be in uniform for the Military Appreciation night before the game and at half-time

Go Pack Go!!

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 8:32PM

Where they beat the shity out of ya for being such an asswipe. Complete your stories, Jack.

Bydand76| 11.11.11 @ 11:33AM

Right,

And the whole time Ron Paul has been in office he has single-handedly managed to save the United States of America from impending doom all by himself from Texas and Washington. Just like every other career politician...

C'mon Jack..... be realistic

Your slavish man-crush on the Paul family is growing tedious and I am sorry, but Ron Pauls world view and America's role in it is at best a pipe dream.

I understand your passion for him as a candidate but his positions are somewhat incompatible with the real world.....

Go Packers!!

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:45AM

It's no man crush. It is sad that the only person who has been right on the problems and issues, for decades is attacked for being right instead of criminals like Bush, Cheny, Romsfeld, the neocons, and Powell, Greenspan, and Bernanke for being wrong. No pro-war probankster Republican can ever be elected again in this country. The brain dead Bush Cheney contingent is down to about 20% of the population.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:51AM

By the way, Ron Paul is the soldiers and vets best friend. He will never send them to an unconstitutional undeclared war again. He has always voted to help our Vets and to keep our troops out of harms way. That is perhaps why he gets more campaign money from our active military then all the other candidates combined, including Obama.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 12:56PM

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:27AM
I know more about history and current events then anyone on this site including the editors.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 3:58PM

Mike D thank you for repeating the truth. Keep repeating it so everyone else will know. Jack from wi. knows more about history and current events then anyone on this site including the editors. You on the other hand area an ignorant dolt.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 4:17PM

Nothing like illustrating what an anti-semitic narcicisstic self-appointed genius looks like Jackboot, its fun for the whole family and so educating.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 1:08PM

WOW!

YOU supported Scott Walker???

You MUST be the sole reason he got elected!

You are such a BIG MAN! Sooooo important!

You should run for President! Better yet...why hasn't anyone in Gov't simply approached you and offered you the job???

Richard Rogers| 11.11.11 @ 7:02AM

I agree with all of this except the sentence "Our European-minded president is not going to do what is necessary." This makes Obama sound well-intentioned if misdiected. I believe he is actively and consciously treacherous. He wants America destroyed.

Anthony| 11.11.11 @ 7:56AM

America and the Bush Administration were sold out by three perfidious lefties in the State Department who put out a series of intelligence estimates that debunked Iran's nuclear capacity.
I don't know if Bush would have taken military action, but these timely leaks of false estimates, done precisely to impede any such action by the U.S. have gotten us in this situation.
They should be tried for treason, but Obozo, if he could, would rather give them a medal.
If America falls, it will be by the hands of the American left.
All praise to our wonderful Vets on this their day!!

Ryan| 11.11.11 @ 8:16AM

Not saying you're wrong, but you need to post proof on that measure.

Anthony| 11.11.11 @ 9:30AM

American Thinker Nov 8 2011 :"Obama promoted two of the three "experts" who dismissed the nuclear threat from Iran in 2007".
The three are Tom Fingar, Vann Van Diepen, and Kenneth Brill. It's an excellent article that details information some of us here at TAS were aware of from AT and the WSJ.

George S| 11.11.11 @ 8:18AM

Unfortunately, GWB burned up too much political capital with Iraq to try for a military strike on Iran's nuclear sites.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 10:33AM

The NIE report comes from our combined intelligence agencies, including the CIA, NSC, all branches of the military intelligence agencies etc. They were digusted with how Cheney and the neocons had manipulated and lied about their intelligence prior to the Iraq war. They wanted a clear statement to stop cheney in his tracks. It worked, Bush held back. The worst mistake Bush ever made was taking Cheney on board and letting the Neocons anywhere the Middle East policy.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 12:56PM

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:27AM
I know more about history and current events then anyone on this site including the editors.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 3:09PM

Actually, Jack is a young man; as in Mark Twain's:

"When I was a young man, I could remember anything, whether it happened or not."

martin j smith| 11.11.11 @ 8:06AM

I dismiss out of hand Ron Paul and will never ever vote for that guy because of the foreign and related defense issues. The question really is what are the intentions of China and Russia ? Of course Iran is one of their "tools".

In my lifetime putting WWII aside, we have had several smaller scale wars but I have not been satisfied that the American People understand what is at stake in most or all of them Certainly in the Cold War--The Viet Nam War certainly I think the political angle ( domestically ) was ignored except for the Anti-War movement . Those who felt the war was necessary did not make enough of a compelling case.

I would say GWB did not do a good enough job vis a vis the Iraq War and really I thin Afganistan and related Pakistan were not well handled. These wars seemed to drag on aimlessly( key here is the aim or goal ).

What we need is a President with the intention of building our national security enough so that Russia and China will think twice or thrice before an aggressive act. An ounce of prevention is worth pound of cure.

Monitoring China and Russia is critical and having people in State or are neither wimps nor hawks but realists and speak truthfully-with the interests of our Nation --not the Socialist Party --
as their main concern.

Finally the United nations is a dangerous institution at least as bad and even worse that during the days of the USS of R. We cannot have them dictate or foreign policy or our national security policy. Iran as a tool an agent of Russia and China posses a danger. I do not want people like Jack of Wi( wherever Wi is ) to be the ones to determine our foeign policy. We already have one dangerous boob in the WH and having another ignoramous is unacceptable the me and I believe most Americans including Tea Party folk agree on that. We need a realist--some one who is up front about their concerns for our security and who can make the case. It is not Ron Paul,or John Huntsman and probably not Herman Cain or Michelle Bachman and others ) but it is up to the voters to decide not me . And not the Socialist Party and not the MSM and Pundits who think they know it all.

Ryan| 11.11.11 @ 8:18AM

Russia is looking to its own interests. They're not out to conquer or control the US, just make money for themselves.

China is the greater, more real threat. They're the ones actively engaging in cyber-warfare, trying to gain access to US military and economic assets. Iran is doing similarly.

Mimi| 11.11.11 @ 8:25AM

It looks more like Newt everyday....Recall how the momentum changed toward John McCain in 2008...It was the asassination of the President of Pakistan, and also Russia was acting up in one of it's former states.....Watch as the voting time gets closer....foriegn policy news kicks -up!
WE NEED TO CHOOSE OUR CANDIDATE.! We need to put on the blinders , shut out the NOISE and do whats best for our country. NO MORE Obama's, no more electing those who would destroy us! We Must choose wisely!

Anthony| 11.11.11 @ 10:37AM

Well Mimi we don't need to choose our candidate now, that's part of the Washington insider, MSM's infantile attention span that demands our pick before a single primary.
As to brother Newt, I have always thought Newt was the brightest and most articulate "conservative" out there. Problem is, brother Newt's ego and appetites have gotten the best of him. Wait till the Obozo attack machine reves up on Newt's past!!!
Newt and his braintrust have finally figured out that his insane embracing of AGW, with Nancy Pelosi, have caused him serious damage and Newt is now doing the famous Washington talk back.
I still like Mr. Cain, but if I had to choose an R who can talk on his feet and take down the left, it would be Newt.
I'm willing to give Newt a 2nd look because he is smart and articulate. We need smart and articulate and a person who will shove it right back at the MSM and the left.
Newt needs to prove to us conservatives that he will finally govern as a conservative and not do a foxtrot back to Nancy Pelosi if he gets elected. He has to crawl back to us and maybe then he will be trusted!!

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 9:26AM

Dr.Ron Paul,
“Our military is already dangerously extended, and this administration
wants to expand our involvement. When will our bombing in Libya end? Is
President Obama seriously considering military action against Syria? We
are facing $2 trillion dollar deficits, and the American taxpayer cannot
afford any of it.

“Our military’s purpose is to defend our country, not to police the
Middle East.

“As the President prepares to send even more support to Egypt, we should
be reminded that it was our foreign aid that helped Mubarak retain power
to repress his people in the first place. Now we have to deal with the
consequences of those decisions, yet we keep repeating the same mistakes.

“I am not the only one who can see the absurdities of our foreign
policy. We give $3 billion to Israel and $12 billion to her enemies.
Most Americans know that makes no sense.

“We need to come to our senses, trade with our friends in the Middle
East (both Arab and Israeli), clean up our own economic mess so we set a
good example, and allow them to work out their own conflicts.”

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 9:30AM

Clint the Ru Paul Fellatio Tsar Canned Post Number 45.

Stay tuned for canned posts 50-100 after the noon hour. You know. After Clint get's done "training" on his bong.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 1:14PM

Training on his bong, or his shlong?

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 1:41PM

Depends on what day it is. He does the cardio schlong bit on Mon, Wed, & Fri & the bong bit on the off days. So, schlong it is, I guess.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 8:36PM

Have you guys seen the bit on the exercise equipment Jack and Clint use?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2ewsEKVJVA.

Personally, we need to post this on our responses to Jack and Clint all the time. Ridicule is the best approach.

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 11:17PM

Tool Job Getting Ready For His Date With Bibi.

http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/.....ap-man.jpg

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 9:30AM

ROBO-POST ALERT!

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:35AM

Martin J Smith should vote for Obama. I consider him a bigger warmonger then Bush any day. That is saying alot. Romney may flip flop on war like he does on everything else. Obama is a warmonger you can depend on.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 2:08PM

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:27AM
I know more about history and current events then anyone on this site including the editors.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 4:01PM

Thank you again for ackowledging what everyone already knows. Jack From Wi. knows more history and curent events then anyone on this site including the editors. Jack will gladly relinquish his title when he finds his better.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 4:19PM

Not sure if their are many low enough to give you a run on that Jackboot and not sure if anybody wants the title of the idiot of the year either.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 8:36PM

Bow to me now, Jack.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.11.11 @ 8:09AM

I am currently reading a novel by Joel C. Rosenberg titled : "The Tehran Initiative"... chilling.
You might also want to read my book: www.americaalonesaidno.com

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 9:32AM

Mr Rosenberg and many other shills for this war have been writing fairy tales to scare guys like you, for many years. There has been a tremendous proganda machine pushing this war for over a decade. The gang who is doing this could care less about the collapse of the owrld economy or how many millions die as long as threir insane ambitions are realized. The whole thing is one big pack of lies. They lied us into Iraq. They are trying to lie us into Iran. Iraq was a disaster. Iran will be a catastrophe, far worse.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 10:29AM

Jack,

How is it that the ENTIRE WORLD knows that Iran is trying to build nuclear weapons...

...But "Jack in Wi" (and his idiot idol Ron Paul) know different???

Has the CIA contacted you?

I mean, you were probably BEST buddies with Alan Dulles, so I'd be surprised if they haven't sought your sage wisdom...

Or is it all just another Zionist conspiracy??

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 10:52AM

All our National Intelligence agencies including the CIA have said Iran stopped it's nuclear weapons program in 2003. See our NIE reports of 2007 and 2011.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 12:57PM

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:27AM
I know more about history and current events then anyone on this site including the editors.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 3:11PM

And we KNOW the CIA and the NIE reports are always as infallible as the Pope.

Hit the dirt, everybody, incoming!!!

Rirl| 11.11.11 @ 8:27AM

You people act like frightened women. Even if Iran attains a nuclear weapon it would be suicidal for them to actually use it. Their civilization would be turned into a glass parking lot and regardless of their views no sane people want that. They have plenty of incentive to develop one so that they won't be the next country invaded and occupied.

John Navratil| 11.11.11 @ 8:35AM

Rirl,

Do you think that matters to them? This is a culture which revels in death, which seeks martyrdom and is actively seeking what are called "end times" here.

If you have lived in the region, you will know that they simply do not think like you do.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 9:41AM

The culture of death is right here not in Iran. They haven't attacked anyone in hundreds of years. They have no nuclear weapons and are not working on any. At least according to all our intelligence agencies. The only country who has used these horrible weapons is us, The only country who threatens to blow up the world is Isreal. See the Samson Option. We and our Israeli bosses have been in endless and stupid wars for over 20 years.Bring the troops home to their families. Let them defend our own borders and shores not the whole world. Our country is bankrupt and our troops are broken. End these wars now.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 10:31AM

"They have no nuclear weapons and are not working on any."

You're nuts.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 10:32AM

"We and our Israeli bosses..."

Once again...Grow some guts and SAY IT.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 10:54AM

I think I have shown that I have the guts to say what I believe any place I feel like it. Dr Wrong, who is never right.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 12:57PM

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:27AM
I know more about history and current events then anyone on this site including the editors.

Rirl| 11.11.11 @ 2:00PM

Even if you accept this premise is it worth going to preemptive war because of something Iran MAYBE will do in the future? I don't believe so.. This is an eerily similar commentary to what was said about Iraq previous to that invasion and of course we never found WMD's. I flat out don't believe it based upon our past track record.

Sam Vaughn| 11.11.11 @ 9:14AM

Rirl, you're missing the point. The Iranian Regime IS suicidal. They sent 10's of thousands of their children into the battlefields with Iraq wearing just a key around their neck. The children were ordered to walk across minefields clearing the mines with their sacrificed blown to bits bodies. This isn't made up stuff, they did it.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 10:58AM

That is no more suicidal then the Russians sending their troops out to fight with no weapons to open minefields. It is no more suicidal then the Israeli's who glorify suicide plans like The Samson Option, or gloify a suicide cult at Masada.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 12:57PM

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:27AM
I know more about history and current events then anyone on this site including the editors.

OregonBuzz| 11.11.11 @ 9:21AM

"....no sane people want that." I agree, except that these people are not sane in the conventional sense. They seek the arrival of the 12th Imam. They chant 'death to America'. Wake up dude.

Anthony| 11.11.11 @ 9:48AM

Rirl, You belong in the Obozo State Department. You have the moral and intellectual blindness, which is the hallmark of the moral equivilancy of the left, that qualifies you for a high position, if you're not there already.
Have you not learned anything these past 10 years, especially if you read this site on a regular basis? "Their civilization" as you describe it, is a 7th century caliphate that is hell bent on the destruction of Western Civilization.
John is right, their's is a culture that embraces death and mocks us for embracing life. Martyrdom is their life!!
Anyway, do us a favor, if you're so concerned about the poor Iranians, why not become a human shield and chain yourself to an Iranian nuclear reactor? It's what any good leftist would do.

Rirl| 11.11.11 @ 2:09PM

Anthony just because I oppose preemptive and unnecessary wars doesn't mean that I'm a liberal. I always vote Republican and am very conservative. There is nothing conservative about wanting to be the world police and embracing preemptive war. This is expensive and even if you believe it is necessary we can't afford it any longer. This neoconservative ideology is dying and true conservatism will replace it..

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 3:17PM

And there's nothing conservative about withdrawing from the world and ceding the entire world beyond our own borders to whomever is strong enough to take it. That would insure that all future attacks would take place on US soil accompanied by the collateral damage, civilian casualties, and need to deploy our military WITHIN our borders.

Good plan, Einstein!

Anthony| 11.11.11 @ 7:30PM

Rirl, Defending America's vital security interests, and yes, Iraq and Afghanastan were vital to America's interests,while at the same time, attempting to establish some degree of sanity in the middle east, is neither preemptive nor unnecessary.
Once again, I submit you have learned nothing these past 10 years.

chuck| 11.13.11 @ 8:46AM

It's hard from the willfully ignorant to learn with their head buried in the sand. Or in their ass, like Jack and Clint.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 10:30AM

You're joking, right?

Islam is a death-worship culture.

They'd be quite happy to obliterate themselves to take-out "the Great Satan".

William L. Gensert| 11.11.11 @ 8:34AM

I believe it won't be Israel alone. Saudi Arabia has much to lose by a nuclear armed Iran as well. Iran has been involved in a proxy war with the Kingdom as long as they have been at war with us. Recent proof can be found in their support for the Houthi rebels in Yemen in 2009, and the insurrection in Bahrain. With the proxy war is now on the Arabian Peninsula, the case for Saudi action is at least as compelling as it is for America and Israel.

The Israelis, after 3 years of trying to get Barack Obama to take the situation seriously, have given up. They will act in conjunction with Saudi Arabia. Danger makes for strange bedfellows.

http://www.americanthinker.com.....t_war.html

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 9:46AM

The bombing of Iran would lead to massive uprisings, of the Shia majority, in the eastern provinces of Saudi Arabia. The Saudi's absolutly want no war with Iran. The whole Middle East oil supply would be at huge risk for years and would most likely lead to WW3. That is no concern to the lunatics here, who push it.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:00AM

"The Saudi's absolutly want no war with Iran."

Bullshit card!

http://csis.org/blog/report-al.....lear-sites

http://www.examiner.com/defens.....ck-on-iran

There's more out there. Try again, Jack.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 12:58PM

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:27AM
I know more about history and current events then anyone on this site including the editors.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 1:42PM

Oh, that's right. I forgot! My bad, Mike! Thanks for reminding me, Bro. I'll shut up now!

:-)

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 2:14PM

Knock it off Con Chef. Its over. Jackboot knows everything, sees all, knows all. He said so. If Jackboot says that the book of leviticus tells us that Muslims should be welcomed by the Jews even though it was written hundreds of years BEFORE muslims existed, thats good enough for me. Jackboot says it, so therefore in must be true!!!

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 2:15PM

All Hail, Jackboot! Hail, Hail, Hail!!!

Mike, are you a Townhall regular as well?

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 4:06PM

Well I sure have been mopping up the floor with you idiots today. I haven't had as much fun in quite awhile. Usually I am too busy for this much nonsense but once in awhile I go in for some guilty pleasure.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 4:22PM

Now zip your drawers back up and clean the hands of all that guilty pleasure Jackboot.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 4:52PM

Yeah, Jackboot, got yourself in deeper as a Jew hating Anti-Semitic ZOG, firmly established yourself and your father as cowards, re-established yourself as a rabid admirer of Father Coughlin. All this in one day. Yeah, I would be jacking off(excuse the pun) if mopping the floor with idiots got me that much recognition in one day.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 8:38PM

Now, Jack, go back to your work out with your friend Clint:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2ewsEKVJVA.

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 11:20PM

Tool Job Goes Back To His Workout With Bibi.

http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/.....ap-man.jpg

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 9:47PM

By the way, Con---The TCU Horned Frogs just beat Boise State AT Boise State. You are aware of this, for sure, but Clint would not be aware that it is possible to play good collgee ball WITHOUT sodomizing little boys.

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 11:24PM

Tool Job Gets Ready To Be Horn Frogged In The Horned Frogs Locker Room.

http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/.....ap-man.jpg

really?| 11.11.11 @ 8:43AM

More WMD scare tactic propaganda???

You think we are gonna fall for that one AGAIN???

HAHAHA you are ridiculous.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 8:50AM

The only ridiculous people are those who don't believe suicidal regimes when they say they want to kill certain people. For reference, see 20th Century.

Simpleton.

Mike W| 11.11.11 @ 9:32AM

We (the American people) will fall for it again. We are suckers. Big time.

We haven't read about the US overthrow of Iran's democratically elected government in 1953. Or how we supported the Saddam of Iran, the Shah while he tortured and murdered. Or how we supported Iraq against Iran and provided chemical weapons to Saddam so he could kill Iranian. Or how we blew an Iranian airliner out of the sky in 1988.

Suckers.

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 11.11.11 @ 9:46AM

What about the current regime in Iran, who murders, cuts off heads, and stones to death anyone they don't like in their own country.

Wake up.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 10:35AM

The overthrow of Mossadegh in 1953 was an act of strategic expediency, and thankfully, there were real men in Gov't who understood that.

The phrase "Democratically elected" is stupid and meaningless.

Hitler was "democratically elected". That worked out well, didn't it?

Mossadegh was cozying-up to the Soviets. That is a FACT.

Sorry, but Eisehower rightly concluded that it was too much of a risk to lose a valuable, oil-producing ally in a sensitive part of the world.

You neo-isolationists are dangerous, deluded fools. You have neither the stomach nor the aptitude for "realpolitiks".

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 1:30PM

"The overthrow of Mossadegh in 1953 was an act of strategic expediency"

Doctor Right,
So we overthrew their gov't because "it was too much of a risk to lose a valuable, oil-producing ally in a sensitive part of the world."

So how did that work out for us? It didn't, we lost the valuable, oil-producing ally in a sensitive part of the world", didn't we? Isn't this a perfect example of "blowback"?

And now, you want us to go to war with Iran....WTF? Why don't we just leave them alone?

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 2:42PM

It worked out great for 26 years until Jimmy Carter abandoned our ally, the Shah.

And please...don't equate a realistic approach to foreign affairs with "wanting to go to war". That's an old, stupid trick...

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 3:35PM

Doc Right,
Do you think there is any way we can stop the Iranians short of war? Sanctions don't work, so what would you have the US do?

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 5:20PM

Teach them a serious lesson.

Muslims are cowards, so they understand force.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 8:40PM

Destroy them.

Knock out their entire electrical grid and their water systems. These are not "reinforced," believe me. What would happen to a nuclear plant without electricty and water? Hmmmm....

No need to fight them, just destroy them. When you eliminate Iranian civilian casualties from your decision matrix, things become much easier.

Margie| 11.11.11 @ 3:39PM

It's the old stupid trick that keeps on giving. The never ending trick that the Paul-bots and anti-American Blame America Firster non-interventionists repeatedly and forever try and use on us "Neo-cons".

Yep. We're Neo-cons, meaning the "new" conservatives. In their minds, they're the "old" "original" conservatives. They think George Washington's on their side, though he's dead and can't speak his mind. They think he's the ultimate example of a non-interventionist for some weird reason.

Man, wouldn't you really just LOVE to hear what George Washington'd have to say to the Jacks and Clints?
LOL.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 3:53PM

Margie,
I believe that George Washington would look at both sides of the issue. In 1953, our gov't overthrew Iran's gov't and installed the puppet dictator known as the "Shah of Iran." Turn that around and imagine if China overthrew our gov't and installed a puppet dictator - how would you feel about that?

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 6:16PM

djtoland,

We fought a war against the British in the 1770's and in the 1812 war, they burned down our Capitol Building and the White House. Yet somehow, we managed to find it in our hearts to rescue them in 1917 and again in the 1940's. And until Obama spat at them repeatedly, they were our strongest ally in the world.

In 1801 or thereabouts, the Libyans of the day, Tripolitans were pirating our vessels and our people and demanding ransoms and tribute. The newly invented Marine Corps and the US Navy went over there and shut them down, plus three more Arab deys who were doing likewise. We are still fighting those people. So they are not like the British and they are not like us. They are different - and they have not changed their behavior in 236 years. Get it yet?

Who taught you history? Your dog?

Note: Logical argument, facts, then ad hominem. Capice, yet?

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 6:42PM

DTOM
"Who taught you history? Your dog?"

I give up. Attack me personally all you want. FU

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 8:43PM

We were fighting the Communists. Pay attention to great power politics sometime. Carter was an idiot who belived in being nice to people who hate us, as he still does. He hates the US so much that he believes anyone who would ally with the US must be evil. The same hold true for Kucinich and Obama. And who votes with Kucinich almost all the time of foreign policy (I've never seen a dissenting vote since the fall of the Berlin wall)---Paul. Go to Thomas, look up votes.

Do some research before you make opinionated statements.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 4:11PM

Neocons are old Trotskyite communists and Democrats. They have nothing to do with our traditional conservative movement. In fact they are now our worst enemy. Margie read something once in awhile. Quit listening to John Hagee. He is a hatemonger and no Christian.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 4:31PM

Jackboot calls somebody a "hate-monger", you learned em' Jackboot, ya done learned all of us.

Margie| 11.11.11 @ 5:23PM

Who the Hell is John Hagee, you lying arrogant scumbag?

Try becoming a man, you insipid PUNK.

Then, once you actually become a man, you just MIGHT want to consider repenting and believing the Gospel of God.
Beginning with Mk. 1:1.

Hell isn't a very nice place, ya know, but it really IS where God throws liars like you.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 5:54PM

John Hagee is a baptist minister who beleives in the existence of the Jewish state, therefore the anti-semitic ZOGS like Jackboot have filed him in the Zionist camp, probably a Mossad agent masquerading as a baptist minister.

Margie| 11.11.11 @ 6:22PM

Oh yeah, I think they were talking about him on another site I used to go to once. There was this huge argument about a preacher who most thought was a whack job because they were saying he was all wrong about Israel.
There's a sect of people, and I know the Catholic Religion also teaches it, that say that "The Church" has "replaced" Israel.
That because of the New Covenant, that is Jesus coming to die for the sin of the World and therefore became the Sacrificial Lamb, making it no longer necessary for the rituals of Priests to continually make sacrifices on behalf of the people (which is the truth)~ these people also think that Israel is NULL & VOID.

They don't know the Gospel of God, but they think they do.
They do not know that the gifts and the call of God are IRREVOCABLE, and that He says all Israel will be saved.
This teaching is called Replacement Theology, and is used as an excuse to be anti-semitic.
Sad.
It's why they utterly despise preachers like him, and Bible believing Christians, who stand on Scripture, instead of false teachings such as this.

Romans 11:29

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 8:44PM

Hagee is a good guy, Margie, at least from the Jewish perspective. You may have theologiocal disagreements with him; I don't know.

I hope you and Vic had a great holiday weekend.

Margie| 11.12.11 @ 9:46PM

He defends Israel, that's what I've found out, and that's why they hate his guts.

Usually, if they're right on Israel, they're right toward Jesus.. as He loves Israel.

And thanks, we had a good weekend. Enjoying our new neighbors here in Ohio. One is a very kind Catholic widow. We have become fast friends.

May God continue to bless you and yours.

Mike D.| 11.13.11 @ 8:17AM

He's also survived asassination attempts because of it as well.

Margie| 11.11.11 @ 8:03PM

P.S. It's referred to by the Catholic Religion as Supersessionism.
And as a matter of fact, the way I first found out about it was from Clint, when he used to post as Tim* here. He actually posted the current Pope's writings about it.

It's what he uses to be an anti-Semite.
Right, Clinty-poo?
Why don't you post those words of the Pope's here again for us?

Papist Dan| 11.12.11 @ 12:04AM

BIGOT ALERT!!!!!!BIGOT ALERT!!!!
The Bigot Margie is now posting daily anti Catholic bigotry while pretending to be a Christian and lecture us. She doesn't believe in the divinity of Jesus, she is the Mullah of her own cult. She is not a Christian. She will reply with her usual :liar, punk, papist, scumbag. This is the vocabulary of her made up cult.

Margie| 11.12.11 @ 11:39AM

LYING PAPIST TROLL ALERT! LYING PAPIST TROLL ALERT!

Anytime I post the truth here about the false teachings of Catholicism the lying Papist Trolls pop up to lie about in Whom I believe according to the Scriptures. They will burn in Hell because that's where God sends liars.

The truth is in Christ Jesus, Who is LORD of ALL.
History is that this false teaching of Supersessionism taught by the Papacy is indeed a fact, and still taught today in their church.

The current Pope wrote about it as I said, and the Papist Clint posted his words here at AmSpec and that's how I learned about it.

It is also what the Papacy used to KILL Jews, just as they killed Bible believing Christians for six centuries.

Only liars will deny the truth.
Suit yourselves.

Christianity is not a cult, but Catholicism is.
JESUS Christ is LORD.

Those who refuse to face the historical truth are doomed to repeat it, and this false teaching is just one of the many that the cult of Catholicism has never repented of.

Papist Dan| 11.12.11 @ 1:57PM

Bigot Margie,
Thanks for imitating my BIGOT ALERT!!!!
You can use it since you aren't smart enough to make one up.
You are correct that every time you post one of your anti Catholic bigoted opinions, I will respond. You can count on it.
See, Mullah Margie, the problem is that you keep lecturing on Christianity and you aren't even a true Christian because you don't believe in the divinity of Jesus. This is a basic belief for Christians. So believe what your want, nobody cares, but stop your lecturing with your insane bigoted opinions. You can count on a reply whenever you post your stupid comments.
I know, I know, we will burn in hell, liar, punk, blah, blahl, blah.
You said you were leaving this site because nobody likes you, and you returned. Were you banned on the other sites like you have been banned here in the past?
Go back under your rock and practice your cult of which you are the Mullah and probably only member.

Nick| 11.14.11 @ 1:58AM

Margie,

"History is that this false teaching of Supersessionism taught by the Papacy is indeed a fact, and still taught today in their church."

I showed you that this was false, a couple of times. Why do repeat these falsehoods?

"It is also what the Papacy [sic] used to KILL Jews, just as they killed Bible believing Christians for six centuries."

These are also falsehoods, which I have informed you of repeatedly. Yet, you continue to re-post them. Why do you want to spread falsehoods about other religions?

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 2:15PM

Nick,

You are a living, walking falsehood.

History is history, dude. You can try and deny it all you want.

The Papacy DID indeed kill Jews, and they did indeed kill Bible believing Christians for six centuries.

And yyour cuurent "Pope" does indeed believe in the false teaching of Supersessionism, and just because YOU, a lying Papist says otherwise, just as you agree with them that the Martyrs whom they killed were all a bunch of Heretics~ doesn't make it so.

What a shame that you choose to join with Satan himself in your denial of TRUTH.

Repent. liar!

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 3:58PM

Your arrogance is disgusting, Nick. You behave exactly like the Papaists of old. You, along with your despicable pals here, Clint, Jack, and the Catholic liaying Trolls here. You lie repeatedly about history, about the Scripture, and twist it to suit your false teachings and try and JUSTIFY them.

However, history speaks for itself.

Read Martyrs Mirror, Fox's Book of Martyrs, and online history, anyone can research it.

The FACTS are that your false and disgusting Religious Popery tortured and killed millions of Bible believing Christians, Jews, and anyone who wouldn't bow the knee to the lying Popery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWS0ePXeq24

http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/

Now, the sick and sad thing is, to this day they deny it. And to this day the church has not repented of the SAME teachings that led them to commit such atrocities.
Your Religion still teaches that Bible believing Christians who are not Catholic are Bigots, as witnessed by you and your pals here on a daily basis.

Repent, and believe the true Gospel of God.
Beginning with Mk. 1:1.

The blood of MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of Christians, Jews and others are on the hands of your Papal Inquisitors.

"Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years." Rev. 20:4.

You are a liar against the Word of God.
Those who were tortured and murdered by your FALSE Religion for centuries are those counted amongst the Martyrs of God~ the ones who YOU lie against.
The same ones who bear that same testimony to Jesus and for the Word of God that I do today.

Repent, Papist liar.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 3:59PM

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...../pius.html

READ HISTORY:
As to the number murdered by the Papists throughout history:

http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/estimates.doc

Nick| 11.14.11 @ 8:51PM

Margie,

"The FACTS are that your false and disgusting Religious Popery tortured and killed millions of Bible believing Christians, Jews, and anyone who wouldn't bow the knee to the lying Popery."

No we didn't. And, you can't provide a shred of evidence to prove otherwise.
God Bless!

Steve| 11.12.11 @ 9:00AM

Words of wisdom from the resident village idiot Margie.

Margie| 11.12.11 @ 11:46AM

To you and the other liars I'm an isiot, but you are a liar.
Jesus is my Lord, America is my country, and Heaven is my home.

Words of wisdom that I spoke? No, except for the part about how Jesus is LORD of ALL, yes that is wisdom from God.

But the rest of it, about the false teaching of your cult~ no, that is not wisdom, you are right, It is fact. It is history, and it is the truth.

You hate me for saying it, but too bad. Some may want to know it, research it, and as Clint always says, "Do their homework."
I notice he didn't say anything to my post.
He's the one who actually posted your Pope's own words on this perverted teaching.

Do you care about God;'s truth?
No, of course you don't, you're a liar!

Steve| 11.12.11 @ 1:11PM

Margie the Idiot,
You never fail to meet the low expectations we all have of you. I am new here. What is this that you don't believe in the divinity of Jesus? Say it aint so Margie? I thought Christians believe in the divinity of Jesus. Am I wrong?

Margie| 11.12.11 @ 6:46PM

Who's this "we", Papist PUNK?

Oh, that's right, it's the many screen names of one Troll, called Legion.

LOL.

Truth isn't your forte, I understand that.

I believe in the Divinity according to the Bible~

Which is this:

"May you be strengthened with all power, according to His Glorious Might, for all endurance and patience with joy, giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the Saints in light.

He has delivered us from the dominion of darkness and transferred us to the Kingdom of his beloved Son, in Whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

He is the Image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in Him all things were created, in Heaven and on Earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities--all things were created through Him and for Him.

He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything He might be pre-eminent.

For in Him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether on earth or in Heaven, making peace by the blood of His cross." Col. 1:11-20.

Now, I'm not sure which god YOU serve, but it sure isn't the God of the Bible.

Repent, liar.

Jesus is LORD.
Repent and believe the TRUE Gospel of God, according to the Scriptures.
Beginning with Mk. 1:1.
Then and only then are you going to be able to see the Kingdom of God.

Jn. 3:3

"Jesus answered and said to him, Truly,
truly, I say to you, If one is not generated
from above, he is not able to see the kingdom
of God." Jn. 3:3.

Margie| 11.12.11 @ 7:04PM

"Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar- the LORD of Hosts is His Name: If this fixed order were ever to cease from My presence, says the LORD, then also the offspring of Israel would cease to be a nation before Me forever. Thus says the LORD: If the Heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be explored, then I will reject all the offspring of Israel because of all they have done, says the LORD." (Jer. 31:35-37)

Read it and weep Replacement Theology Supersessionist anti-semites!

Steve| 11.12.11 @ 10:14PM

Margie the village idiot,
You went to a lot of wasted space to say you don't believe in the divinity of Jesus.
We is we. Do you see anybody agreeing with your or defending your position? NO. You are a whack job.

Steve| 11.12.11 @ 10:15PM

P.S. cute reference to anti semites when you are the one that believes Jews have a false religion. Did I say anything about Jews, idiot Margie? Trying to deflect by raising a phony non existent argument.

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 12:12PM

Steve,

You're a liar.
God throes liars into the Lake of fire. And contrary to Catholic teaching, that means for eternity, and there's no escape.
PUNK.

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 12:13PM

Oh, and p.s. ~ You're not "new here."
Fool.

Steve| 11.13.11 @ 2:30PM

Margie the Village Idiot,
Explain what I lied about. You can't because you know it's true. You said your own little cult is the only true religion, you said Jews have a false religion, and you don't believe in the divinity of Jesus. So what is the lie? Be specific,

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 2:53PM

You'll be having to explain it to God, punk.

Steve| 11.13.11 @ 5:45PM

Margie the Village Idiot,

Nothing to explain to Jesus who is God since He knows he is God. You will have to explain why you don't believe in the divinity of Jesus.

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 11:28PM

" Michael Scheuer, who was the head analyst at the CIA’s bin Laden unit, Alec Station, and authored the books Through Our Enemies Eyes and Imperial Hubris, said “I thought Mr. Paul captured it the other night exactly correctly. This war is dangerous to America because it’s based, not on gender equality, as Mr. Giuliani suggested, or any other kind of freedom, but simply because of what we do in the Islamic World and because ‘we’re over there,’ basically, as Mr. Paul said in the debate.”

Scheuer also agreed with Dr. Paul’s statement in the debate that the war in Iraq was a diversion from capturing or killing Osama bin Laden and that bin Laden was “delighted” that the U.S. is occupying Iraq as it has become a training ground and recruiting tool for new jihadists joining the movement."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 12:14PM

Clint,

Why didn't you repost the words of your present fraud Pope with regards anti-semitic Supersessionism as you did many months agao in order to show me that the Popey was on "your side?"

Hmm?

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 2:54PM

Folks:
Notice the silence from Clint.

Steve| 11.13.11 @ 5:51PM

Silence may be the best answer to a stupid bigot like you Margie.

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 6:19PM

Way to completely avoid anything I've stated.
You've just proven what an utter imbecile and liar you are, and for all to see.
You ask repeatedly for an answer as to what I believe, and when I do give it to you, you continue lying, blatantly.
You're a fool, Troll.
Today the Troll is Steve, yesterday it's Dan or Joseph.
Same sick spirit~ repeatedly lies, "You don't believe in the Divinity of Jesus!"
You don't fool God.
Grow up, lowlife scum.
You also have no fear of God in you, because if you had an iota of the fear of God, you'd realize that lying is taking you to Hell.
Lotsa luck!

Steve| 11.13.11 @ 6:30PM

Margie the Village Idiot,
Not Dan or Joseph.
You did not give an answer. You just cut and paste Bible verses that you don't even understand to avoid admitting in plain english that you don't belileve in the divinity of Jesus.
What is the lie? Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus? It is obvious you don't and you try to evade a direct answer.
You have been asked this before by others and you always give the same cut and paste evasion.
Why were you banned from this site?

Papist Dan| 11.13.11 @ 7:01PM

Bigot Margie,
Don't confuse me with Steve or you other fans. Just because everyone has the same opinion of you doesn't mean we are the same person. Is that too difficult for you to understand?
Why did you return? Nobody here wants to talk with you.

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 11.11.11 @ 9:49AM

We have satellite photos of a semi convoy leaving Iraq for Syria after we gave them 2 days notice that we were invading. And despite all of the UN reports citing evidence of WMD, despite all of the times Hussein USED the WMD's, you don't beleive they were there unless we have a news feed of George W Bush standing on top of a stockpile of them.

R Martin| 11.11.11 @ 8:46AM

Mr. Babbin's history of Iran's nuclear ambitions highlights perfectly why so many of us have completely lost faith in government. Any man on the street, applying nothing more than common sense, knew exactly what Iran was up to and the dangerous consequences of those ambitions.

Politicians have shown themselves not be trusted with the basic fiscal discipline every individual household must live by, and now they show themselves incapable of dealing with a fanatical, homicidal regime intent on possessing nuclear weapons. This is not good.

VBMax| 11.11.11 @ 5:56PM

R Martin, you summed that up nicely.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 8:48AM

I just can't wait for the Chamberlain-eque reasons given by all the Paulites & regressives (one & the same on foreign policy) as to why we should just leave the "poor, peaceful" Iranians alone. And then I can't wait to hear all the non-interventionist/anti Zionist diatribes that will also ensue. Ever notice how strong adherents of "non-interventionism" always give historical reasonings behind WHY we shouldn't have gotten into ANY war since the Civil War that have STRONG parallels to the "Jewish ZOG/World Domination Plot" conspiracy theories? The only difference between the 2 is that one leaves out the word "Jew" & just says "American foreign policy."

Meanwhile, as is typical throughout history, those sworn to our destruction here in America still plot our demise at any and all costs. The fact that Iran is so tight with China & Russia & are trading weapons with them should make any NORMAL thinking person come to the conclusion that an Iranian ICBM is on the planning table. But they don't even need that. They can smuggle small radiological devices across the border using Hezbollah/IRG/Quds agents who infiltrated up from Tehran-friendly Venezuela. And who will the neo lib/neo Chamberlains/regressives blame THEN?

Well, they'll blame everyone but themselves. Like the cowards they are. These whistlers past the graveyard are all too common throughout history. Demosthenes BEGGED Athens to realize the threat posed by Philip of Macedon. They didn't. Macedon rose, Athens was never again what it was, & eventually was conquered by Philip's son, Alexander. The same with the optimates who stood against the power grabs of Caesar, Antony & Octavian. Cicero wrote his OWN Philippics against the enemy from WITHIN, yet no one listened. Cicero was exiled & assasinated & had his hands nailed to the Forum. Cato committed suicide, along with Brutus. And thus fell the Republic.

Just remember history, all you "non-interventionists." It portends what the future holds. And only idiots ignore its lessons.

"Not to know what has been transacted in former times is to be forever a child. If no use is made of the labors of past ages, then the world must always remain in the infancy of knowledge."...Marcus Tullius Cicero

Mike W| 11.11.11 @ 9:34AM

You are a fruit loop.

And, since you are calling people cowards, did you ever serve?

My bet is that 99 percent of the keyboard warriors on this site never spent a day in the military.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 9:43AM

No, I was unable to have that honor. I had ulcerative colitis from 11-14 & had my colon removed. Automatic DQ, even though my Dad was a retired O-6, Vietnam vet & CO of the dental clinic at NAS Memphis & tried to call in favors to get me in.

I'm the son of someone who was spat upon & called "baby killer" when he returned home on the Saratoga. Don't even DARE to question me on what its like to have a loved one deployed. I know what all it entails.

Why I called them "cowards" is because they're too chickenshit to face the REALITY that PEOPLE REALLY DO WANNA KILL US, WHETHER WE LEAVE THEM ALONE OR NOT.

My Dad:

http://navymemorial.org/NavyLo....._id=621073

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 9:54AM

I am proudly 4F. It is chickenhawk blowhards like you, with your endless warmongering who have helped get many American service people killed in needless wars. A old guy who used to work for my dad said to one time. " It is better to be a dead hero then a live coward. " Of course he had never been in the service. After he left my old man said to me." I would rather be a live coward any day. " Another saying of his was. " Is there anything more stupid and wasteful then war? "

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:12AM

The difference between you & I is that you're a PROUD 4-f. That, to me, is one of the most disappointing times of my life.

My Dad endured the scorn of a nation upon his return & you call me a "chickenhawk." F**K YOU, asshole. Take your "proud 4f" ass & go bloviate more on matters that you know jack shit about. It hasn't stopped you before.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 10:39AM

Your Dad told you he'd rather be a "live coward"..???

Is that supposed to be fatherly advice?

That explains a lot.

Is there anything more stupid and wasteful than war?

Yes, there is. It's called NOT being prepared to defend yourself.

Some things are worth fighting AND dying for. I guess your old man would have been ready to hoist a different flag if it meant saving his ass?

Pathetic.

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:04AM

I am a coward right, Dr. Wrong. Go show me up. Enlist and go fight for the Marines of better yet for your real country, the IDF. All the gung ho warriors should get off their keyboards and go fight and leave the rest of us alone. The sooner they are dead heros the better.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 11:13AM

Thus speaketh the man who told him it was better to be a "live coward." You're a real hoot, Jack.

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 12:59PM

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 11:27AM
I know more about history and current events then anyone on this site including the editors.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 1:19PM

Yeah.

You're a coward. Just like your old man.

And you're "Proud" to be 4-F.

You're a disgrace.

And I already DID volunteer, dumbass.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 3:31PM

Happy Veterans' Day, Mr. Proud Coward.

It is pathetic to listen to your absolutely cowardly approach to international relations. You insult the commitments, efforts, and oaths taken by everyone who ever has, is, or will serve in our military.

Proud 4F? Was that because of inadequate performance on IQ tests? Or maybe a lack of spine?

And, no, I did not serve, my father, my uncles, and my brother did. Not serving actually is one of my lifelong regrets. That does not make me willfully ignorant of the inevitable imbecility of a retreat from the world in an effort to "avoid conflict."

The more one seeks to avoid conflict, the more certainly it will come and find you. Want to avoid domestic attack? Then show the world an extremely powerful military and a willingness to use it IN OUR INTERESTS.

Our interests do no include trying to win over the unwinnable 'Arab street.'

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:48AM

jackiepoo!

i served! Beruit, Kuwait, Iraq. i have buried more BROTHERS than you have been laid BOY!

i will stand with my brothers while you hide in the sand. i have TBI. what have you done?

spoken like a gutless scumsucking yellowbellied sap sucking prog!

Bydand76| 11.11.11 @ 12:49PM

Nice name "Devil Dog"!!

Thank you for your service Marine!!

Bydand76.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 8:50PM

Proudly 4-F. I volunteered before I went to Medical school. Thanks to Ronnie, we were in no significant wars, because they knew Ronnie would kill them. They turned down my ROTC scholarship application. However, my grandpop served, all of my brothers-in-law, my father in law in two wars, my wife's best friend (Major in AF intelligence), my colleague on my hospital staff (Army captain---medical officer), so I have a general idea.

And yes, all of my $80,000 in medical training loans were paid off in 18 months after I graduated residency. I don't renege on arrangements with the Uncle.

Proudly 4-F indeed. Makes sense, asshole. My old man said that "I would rather be a live coward anyday."

No wonder you hate the Israelis. They stand against everything you stand for.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 9:57AM

Oh, & Mike, if the best reseponse you have to my post is that I'm a "fruit loop," then I'm not really sure you know much of anything about what I'm writing about. Stick to the "energy" biz.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 10:36AM

Yup. I did.

Volunteered, too.

Bydand76| 11.11.11 @ 12:45PM

14 year Combat Vet.
11B & 13F MOS (combat arms)
Ranger
Pathfinder
Air Assault
Airborne
Mountain Warfare

2 Tours in Iraq
1 Tour in Afghanistan (1 forthcoming)

Awarded:
C.I.B (Combat Infatry Badge: earned not given)
Bronze star w/ V device
Arcom w/ Oak leaf cluster
A.A.M 3x
Member of the Order of the Spur

My lineage includes my fore-bearers fighting in almost every single conflict since this countires inception. That's called tradition in my clan.

Never forget
If it wasn't for "war".........there would be no U.S.A..

If it wasn't for "war" we would all be speaking German, Japanese, or Russian right now....

If it wasn't for "war" you would not be able to speak freely or enjoy any other freedom you now currently enjoy...

AND...I know I am not the only Vet who posts here on AS.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 1:21PM

THANK YOU.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 1:22PM

For your service.

(And a great post, too!)

RCV| 11.11.11 @ 2:40PM

Thanks for your service! We honor you, and all our fine vets today.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 3:33PM

Thank you for your service, sir. You have honored us; we try to repay you, but can never...

Margie| 11.11.11 @ 3:43PM

I love you guys. Thank you, good sir, for your sacrificial service to our country.

"Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." Jn. 15:13.

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 8:14PM

Thank you sir.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 8:51PM

Thanks you, sir.

chuck| 11.13.11 @ 8:39PM

Many thanks to you, and all who have served this great nation. My father included. My he rest in peace.

Margie| 11.11.11 @ 11:20AM

Par excellence, sir. (Con Chef NB).
God bless you!

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 11:30AM

Back at ya, Ms. Margie!

Clint | 11.13.11 @ 6:49PM

Now, Tell Con Job Where You Say Practicing Jews Go When They Die, American Spectator's Resident White Trash Bigot, Margie.

You're Up

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 1:43AM

Scumbag: Better worry about where YOU are going.

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 9:12AM

"Ron Paul Campaign Raises Most Donations from Military

Out-raises all candidates from both parties

LAKE JACKSON, Texas – Today, it was confirmed that the campaign of 2012 Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul has raised more than any other current presidential candidate in donations from members of the military. Of those donors who indicated their occupation and employer, Paul topped the other contenders, a distinction he also achieved during his 2008 presidential run.

“Our fighting men and women take an oath to protect America, defend our Constitution and defend our borders,” said Ron Paul 2012 Campaign Chairman, Jesse Benton. “They look at Ron Paul and see a leader who takes their oath seriously, and who will fight to ensure that we don’t misrepresent that oath by sending them off to police the world, instead of defending our country.”

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Sam Vaughn| 11.11.11 @ 9:16AM

Clint, I like Ron Paul, except for one thing, his foreign policy breaks the boundary between naieve and goes straight to scary.

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 9:24AM

Dr.Ron Paul,
" While President Obama’s demand that Israel
make hard concessions in her border conflicts may very well be in her
long-term interest, only Israel can make that determination on her own,
without pressure from the United States or coercion by the United
Nations.

“Unlike this President, I do not believe it is our place to dictate how
Israel runs her affairs. There can only be peace in the region if those
sides work out their differences among one another. We should respect
Israel’s sovereignty and not try to dictate her policy from Washington."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 9:27AM

Clint the Ru Paul Fellatio Tsar Canned Post Number 20.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 10:40AM

ROBO-POST ALERT!

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 9:24AM

Clint The Ron Paul Fellatio Tsar Canned Post Number 21.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 9:30AM

ROBO-POST ALERT!

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 11.11.11 @ 9:51AM

LMAO

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 8:52PM

Yes, he raised $38,000 from them. Active military doesn't contribute much. I wonder who gets the most from RETIRED military.

OregonBuzz| 11.11.11 @ 9:17AM

It has also been noted that Iran is assisting Venezuela in the construction of missile launch facilities. I wonder what they plan to do with those? Does anyone out there remember the Cuban missile crisis?

Jason D| 11.11.11 @ 10:01AM

Wow, two great technological powers. We need to go in and take them out. The great communist threat, Venezuela and the Theocracy of Iran. I heard they are building a giant catapault that will be able to hurl giant amounts of magma at us.

These countries are not a serious threat in any way. We have air superiorty and they would not be dumb enough to ever try anything.

The Neocon thinking has gone beyond ridiculus. Our biggest threat is an economic threat. That is the ruin of our currency. When the BRIC nations quit using the dollar because of the constant devaluing of it, we will see huge amounts of inflation when those dollars come back here to buy capital from us. We wll no longer be able to support our military and the entitlement system will be essentially worthless here. There will be riots as food prices go up and the only thing a few true conservatives will be able to say is we told you so. Most of are smart enough to have gotten our assets of dollar related securities but a bad time is coming and we have Neocons arguing to do more things that are bringing on the situation even faster.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 12:07PM

as one who had to rely on that so called air superiority, i can tell you it is HYPED!

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 3:35PM

Oh, yeah Iran is no threat.

Unless you are an American on the wrong end of an IED.

Ignorance is no excuse, so you have none.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 8:53PM

Jason. One container ship, one nuke, properly emplaced. One EMP of sufficient size, down goes the eastern seaboard. Read Newt on the subject.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 1:24PM

No, they're NOT!

Iran is a peaceful nation that just wants peacey-type peace.

Ask Jack! (And he knows more than the editors!)

Naturalborn Texicanette| 11.11.11 @ 9:17AM

Ken,

I've read Rosenberg's entire collection on the end times events. Including the Tehran Initiative. absolutely riveting! Could not put the book down until I finished it, and then had a massive case of eye-strain.

Truly riveting!!! Especially when you believe that this scenario is indeed coming in the future!

Kingofthenet| 11.11.11 @ 9:21AM

Israel isn't capable of doing this, we might not be either except for a LONG protracted air war.

Matthew Quigley| 11.11.11 @ 10:13AM

I doubt we have the capacity for a protracted aerial campaign. The United States hasn't dealt with an industrialized enemy since WWII, and that makes the difference in use of strategic bombing.

Compare the campaign against Germany (or Japan) against Operation Rolling Thunder or Linebacker II in Vietnam. In WWII, the two major Axis powers produced their own war materiel and had developed economies. Attacks on their industrial base (and cutting off Japan's access to raw materials) helped to bring about the defeat of those countries.

Compare that to North Vietnam: Imported all war materiel, and the sources of that materiel were politically protected, and thus, beyond the reach of aerial bombardment. The imported materiel could be destroyed at the port of entry, but the country it came from would just manufacture more and deliver it to North Vietnam. Meanwhile, we were losing aircraft and crews, and not replacing the losses (the F-105 and F-8 were out of production at the time of Rolling Thunder, and the B-52D and G losses during Linebacker II also could not be made up). During WWII, a B-17, B-24 or B-29 could be lost and another one (with crew) was there to take over. We have only two wings of B-52's, two wings of B-1B's and one wing of B-2's. NONE are in production and all our G-model B-52's were scrapped by Bill Clinton's orders. We have NO WAY to make up for losses in a protracted aerial campaign against Iran, and Iran can replace its losses by acquiring new materiel from China and Russia.

Until we start producing bombers in sufficient number to handle a protracted war, we shouldn't even think of the possibility. The same goes with tanks, ships and other military equipment.

And for the record, I'm not a "keyboard warrior," as one poster so interestingly phrased it. I'm a US Air Force veteran of the late Cold War and Desert Storm. I was recalled from reserve status for tours in OEF and OIF, so if anyone has an issue with my opinion, you're free to do so, but I do know from where I speak.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 3:41PM

Matthew;

Isn't the cruise missile intended to supplant the long-range bombers? Sorta like your modified Sharps as opposed to Mr. Colt's handguns?

Happy Veteran's Day and thank you for your service from another one of millions and millions of your grateful fellow citizens.

Matthew Quigley| 11.11.11 @ 5:34PM

Cruise missiles have their uses, but some targets have to be faced by heavies, either due to geographic locations or sheer size. A salvo of Tomahawks lacks the punch of a formation of B-52's to take out some Chinese industrial sites, and likewise, some of the more hardened Iranian targets.

I'd be perfectly happy if UAV's and cruise missiles could do it all...hell, I'd be happy if F-16's crammed with PGM's could do it all, but that's not how things usually work out. There will be targets that only a BUFF can destroy...and you can bet those will be defended to the hilt. Aircraft and crews will be lost, and our ability to maintain an extended campaign will be degraded. That comes from shoddy planning and a "single strike" mentality that's plagued military thinking since the early days of the Cold War.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 6:19PM

Daisy cutters don't really sit too well atop those spindly UAV's do they.

Thanks for the info.

Good day, sir.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 8:55PM

Again---that's why the intelligent approach is to knock out electrical grid and water supplies, not hardened targets.

Screw the Iranians. Let them die of thirst in their desert.

Dimitri Aleksandrovich| 11.11.11 @ 9:30AM

I think Russia can turn a good profit selling Iran their S-300 anti aircraft missiles because it looks like Israel, the Wahhabist Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and Uncle Sam are hell bent on starting a war with Iran. Believe it or not folks a war against Iran wouldn't even really be for Israel because Israel knows that the Shia Clerics that run Iran are anything but suicidal. I have said again and again that the only ones who have to gain from an US-Israeli war with Iran is the Sunni Wahhabist Saudi Arabia that has been lobbying profusely for such a war (of course without them having to get their white robes dirty) to take out their biggest rival in the Middle East and the seat of Shia power (Shia being considered heretics to most Sunni throughout the world). An attack on Iran would be stupidity especially since Iraq is no longer Iran's enemy but an ally with a Shia dominated government (compliments of an American regime change) that is backing the Shia Alawite leader Assad (as is Iran) in his internal conflict with the nation's Sunnis. A war with Iran means a war with Syria and Hezbollah dominated Lebanon as well. It will be a huge regional war not only with US Israeli forces against Iran, but most likely open warfare between Shia and Sunni throughout the Middle East and rocketing fuel prices because of the war. This is what Saudi Arabia wants and what some Israeli and American hawks want, but I think the fallout of a war with Iran could be more than what the global economy can take at this moment in time not to mention unnecessary for the US. If the Israelis and Saudis want to strike Iran let them and let them deal with the consequences, but keep the U.S. out of it. It's none of our business anyways.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:51AM

they arent suicidal. tell that to all the suicide bombers victims. you really do NOT understand your enemies. or do you? America is your enemy isnt it

Dimitri Aleksandrovich| 11.11.11 @ 1:29PM

The suicide bombers are Wahhabist/Salafists (like the Saudis...that's was Al Qaeda's brand of Islam as is the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia) not Shia and the same Wahhabist suicide bombers targeting our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are also targeting Iranian pilgrims to Karbala and Shia mosques in Iraq. So stop being dense and do your research.

Mike W| 11.11.11 @ 9:36AM

As an engineer in the energy business, I hope that someone attacks Iran. It will mean a big, big bonus for me this year.

However, not so good for the country.

Seth| 11.11.11 @ 9:37AM

Yawn. Where have we heard all this before? Fool us once, shame you; fool us twice, shame on us. If you are really concerned, emigrate and pick up a gun. We gave you a country, so go live there and defend it, but stop harping about how this is America's problem.

nister| 11.11.11 @ 9:38AM

If the leaders of Iran are as suicidal as inferred here, what do they need nukes for? They have plenty of conventional missiles to strike with, and since they know a withering response awaits, there would be no holding any assets in reserve. The only strategy needed? Launch first, go big.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:52AM

simple. they want complete destruction. they want to wipe us of the map. they are insane. how else do you explain their laws of beatiality and pedophilai?

ncatty| 11.11.11 @ 9:40AM

Some nation introduced stuxnet and some nation is carrying on the assassination of Iranaian nuclear experts. Is it us or the Israelis, or both? Obama is a real predator drone enthusiast so he might be knocking them off. Libs don't want to hear that, of course.

David Toland| 11.11.11 @ 9:45AM

How is Iran having a nuclear weapon any different than the old Soviet Union having them? As far as Iran hating us, doesn't anybody know that we overthrew their government in 1953? Do we have no responsibility for what we've done to the Iranians? I do not believe that the Iranians hate us for our freedoms - they hate us for what we've done to them. It's that simple. We need to leave them alone, and if they attack us, then we nuke them. For us to start another war right now would be the height of stupidity, and make no mistake, the only way to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons is to go to war - is that what you want?

Dimitri Aleksandrovich| 11.11.11 @ 9:47AM

I couldn't have said it better.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 10:48AM

"How is Iran having a nuclear weapon any different than the old Soviet Union having them?"

This can't be a serious question...

How is Iran different?? Two words: "Rational response."

We had our differences with the Soviets, but their culture was still firmly rooted in the European tradition. As such, we had a common understanding that cut through the things that divided us.

Like us, the Soviets were driven by the survival impulse. As such, we could count on a RATIONAL RESPONSE in a crisis, as they could count on one from us. Study a detailed analysis of the Cuban Missile Crisis to see the best example of this in action. For 13 days we stood toe-to-toe with the Soviets in a highly flammable situation that could have gotten out-of-control had both sides not been led by calm, rational men who had NO desire to see the world burn.

Iran is NOT a western nation. Their culture is not rooted in western traditions, and they are NOT rational. They are an Islamic state, and they seek to spread Islam while destroying their enemies.

And they (the leaders of Iran) are perfectly happy to sacrifice themselves (or their citizens) to advance this cause.

For these reasons, Iran MUST NOT be allowed to possess a nuclear weapon.

Our nation has lost the will to deal with this properly.

Here's hoping the Israelis haven't.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 11:49AM

Doctor Right,
Just because Iran's culuture is not rooted in western traditions, they are not rational? So does that mean that only western traditions are rational?
I call BS that the Iranian people are not rational. If our goverment was overthrown by another country, what would you think? What goes around, comes around. The CIA calls it "blowback". Also, please don't tell me that the Iranians hate us for our freedoms - this is a typical argument for people who only see one side of an issue and it is BS.

Matthew Quigley| 11.11.11 @ 12:14PM

Iran is governed by people who subscribe to the "Mahdist" version of Shi'a islam. They seek, by means of conflict, to bring the "return" of the "hidden" Twelfth Imam, also known as "The Mahdi." That's an apocalyptic belief, and one that SEEKS conflagration. To them it's rational, but irrationality is rational to a mad man, or a mad culture. Cultural equivalence has been all the rage since I was in elementary school in the 1970's, but it fails to grasp one simple fact: Some cultures ARE better than others. A culture based on the ravings of a murdering, war-mongering, child-raping lunatic is NOT as valid as one based upon the values of the Enlightenment. If you cannot see that, then you are either wilfully blind or just plain stupid.

Quit parroting Ron Paul's blither and open your eyes. Paul may have been a flight surgeon, but that doesn't make him an expert on military or foreign policy. Quite the opposite, actually. The least military and least thoughtful people I have ever known in the Air Force were members of the medical services. The people who fly and maintain aircraft and munitions are the ones who have to know the plusses and minuses of policies imposed on us by the civilians who set those policies. I've been shot at. It ain't fun. I've seen the fanaticism of muslims. It ain't pretty. The Soviets didn't want to get nuked because even they didn't believe their Marxist blatherings (and I have that from a former KGB captain). The Iranians don't care because if they get nuked, they go to "Paradise," and they, like ALL other muslim and muslim-oriented governments BELIEVE what they spout. You might be willing to commit national suicide. I, however, am not.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 12:23PM

My eyes are wide open. I have lived in the Middle East, I know the culture. Yes, Ahmidinejad is nuts, but the Iranian people are not, as witnessed by the revolts last year.
Tell me, why do you think the Iranians hate us? Do you ever think about that?

Matthew Quigley| 11.11.11 @ 1:21PM

I don't care why somone wants to kill me. I just want to remove the threat. They want us dead, I don't care why, therefore, I want to take them down before they can act on their desires.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 1:31PM

If you never understand the problem, how can you fix it?

Matthew Quigley| 11.11.11 @ 1:52PM

They're dead and unable to act. Problem solved.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 2:08PM

No, they won't be the only ones dead if we go to war with Iran. There will be many thousands of dead US soldiers also, is that what you want?

Matthew Quigley| 11.11.11 @ 2:25PM

Kid, I've been fired on by Iraqis, Taliban and various other middle eastern scum. Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines are well prepared to die if necessary for what we believe in. As long as more Iranians die than Americans, and as long as the mission is allowed to be completed, then losses, while regrettable, are acceptable. I suppose we just should have called it quits in the Pacific after Midway, Buna Mission and Guadalcanal because American fighting men died? Join the real world. Only people who've never been in the military seem to think that military action is without risks or that no one expects that he might get killed. I was told when in flight school to consider myself already dead, and most military members are told the same thing. So deal with it. Kill Iranians, whether IIRA or Revolutionary Guard, and PROBLEM SOLVED. If safety for the United States means destroying Iran as a culture, I have ZERO problem with that.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 2:47PM

Kid? FU.

I believe in defending the US. I do not believe in pre-emptive war on a country that has not attacked us.

Matthew Quigley| 11.11.11 @ 3:05PM

Never attacked us?

Teheran, 1979--invasion of embassy= act of war.
Beirut, 1983--Iran backed the terrs who killed those Marines and Navy Corpsmen.
The Tanker War (1980's), including the attack on the USS Samuel B. Roberts
Funding terrorist attacks against the US, Israel and other countries (1979-present)

"Has not attacked us"? Wake up and smell the napalm, boy. They've been at war with us for better than thirty years, only we haven't been fighting back. You're channeling Ru Paul again, and it shows.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 3:30PM

Matthew,
What goes around comes around? Do you agree?

If so, what is the expected response of a country, when a foreign power overthrows their government and installs a puppet dictator? I know what my response would be, what would be yours?

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 3:49PM

djtoland:

"What goes around comes around?" is a basis for a national defense policy? Seriously, are you a simpleton?

What about 'sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me?'

They have thrown sticks and stones! And you won't even call them names?

How many Americans have they killed? How many is OK with you? Would it matter to you if it was going to be you?

Yep, simpleton. The only possible, rational conclusion.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 3:58PM

DTOM,
First of all, are you a dumbass?

Now that that is out of the way, I will address your statement. No, I did not say that "What goes around comes around" is a basis for defense policy. I said that is why Iran doesn't like us, we interfered in their country way back in 1953.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:19PM

No, sir, my ass is as smart as yours, at least.

Now let's look at your brain.

Your statement refers to things "going around" as the explanation for their attitude, and that would also reflect their policy, and their actions.

So if you don't think that that is why they act the way they do, why in the world did you say it?

Did your cat get the keyboard while you were out?

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 5:45PM

DTOM,
I misunderstood you, I thought you were talking about what goes around, comes around as a basis for US policy.
Also, my "are you a dumbass" question is very similar to your "are you a simpleton" question. See, what goes around, comes around. So we installed the Shah of Iran, and his reign lasted for 25 years. That is why Iran hates us.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 6:22PM

Fine, what do you propose we do about them, then.

Do you think ignoring them, or trying to placate them is going to work? (Ref UK PM Chamberlain, 1940 "Peace in our time.")

Note: No ad hominem...we didn't spiral into Clint V Doc...good for us.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 6:43PM

DTOM,
I think leaving them alone will work. Isn't it worth a try? For once?

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 1:31PM

The Iranian people, by and large, don't hate us.

The Islamists do.

And I really don't care about their barbaric complaints. They're a threat, and they need to be neutralized

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 1:33PM

"Neutralized"? Isn't that a nice way to say killed? And how many US soldiers are you willing to have die for your peace of mind?

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 2:46PM

You say potato, I say po-taht-o...

Last I checked, we have a volunteer military.

And as President GW Bush proved, sometimes you have to go on offense in order to go on defense.

They're a threat, and they need to be neutralized

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 2:49PM

Our fundamental difference seems to be that you believe they are a threat to us, and I don't. Other than cheap talk by Ahmadinejad, how have they threatened us?

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 3:52PM

With compliments to Matt Quigley,

"Matthew Quigley| 11.11.11 @ 3:05PM

Never attacked us?

Teheran, 1979--invasion of embassy= act of war.
Beirut, 1983--Iran backed the terrs who killed those Marines and Navy Corpsmen.
The Tanker War (1980's), including the attack on the USS Samuel B. Roberts
Funding terrorist attacks against the US, Israel and other countries (1979-present)

"Has not attacked us"? Wake up and smell the napalm, boy. They've been at war with us for better than thirty years, only we haven't been fighting back. You're channeling Ru Paul again, and it shows."

djtoland,

ARE YOU STUCK ON STUPID?

And Matt didn't even include the American casualties of Iranian IED's in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Yep, YOU ARE STUCK ON STUPID!

Yea, I called you a name - you earned it!

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 4:02PM

DTOM,
Is an ad-hominem attack all you have in your arsenal?

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:24PM

djtoland,

I offered you a collection of facts, that to a rational mind, would refute your unsupported assertion that Iran has not attacked us.

Then I launched a premeditated, ad hominem attack on you, sort of like the Iranians. And I know you did not overthrow my family in 1953; I did it to fight stupid, factless, irrational statements everywhere!

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 5:47PM

Would you agree that we attacked Iran first? Since overthrowing a government is an act of war.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 6:04PM

Look, Junior...

When it comes to recent history, you seem as ignorant (or as gullible) as they come. Don't blame me because you don't know how the world works; blame your dim-witted, left-wing professors.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 6:49PM

Dr Right,
"Junior? Ignorant?" What is your problem that you can't carry on a debate without somehow trying to demean me?

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 1:29PM

Iran is NOT a country rooted in western traditions, philosophy, and culture.

Therefore, Iran is NOT a country rooted in western ideals of rationalism. NO Islamic country is. Western ideals of freedom are antithetical to Islam. They cannot coexist.

Does that offend you?

If so, tough crap.

And your question is stupid.

Since we are a democratic republic with a tradition of political freedom, any nation that would seek to overthrow us would by definition be ANTI-FREEDOM.

FYI, the Islamists hate us PRECISELY because of the threat that our freedoms represent to their hold on power.

The only BS is in your immature brain.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 1:34PM

Doctor Right,

And I think you'r an A-hole. Offended? Eat a dick.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 1:48PM

Thank you for dazzling us with your astounding intellectual acumen in response to Doc. You & Cwint must be related.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 1:51PM

I believe my response proves "what goes around, comes around". Doctor Right calls me stupid, he gets it right back. Something wrong with that?

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 1:54PM

Con Chef,
Cwint? Is that an example of your astounding intellectual acumen in your responses?

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 2:12PM

So my use of the variation "Cwint" is somehow indicative of my lack of mental acumen? Doc didn't swear at you, merely called you "stupid" & you responded with "You're an a-hole" & "eat a dick."

Gotcha. Usually, people cuss when they're mad. I do. I do on this site. What, other than call you "stupid" did Doc do to receive your ire?

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 2:18PM

Dr Right wrote to me:

And your question is stupid.
The only BS is in your immature brain.

So Con Chef, your question is stupid and the only bullshit is in your immature brain. Does that raise your ire? Welcome to the club.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 2:49PM

Your question WAS stupid.

You ARE immature.

Don't blame me; blame the education system.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 2:47PM

Ooh!!!

LOL! You don't have the power or the intelligence to offend me, junior!

Must be a slow day down at Zucotti Park with the other dumb, lazy, ignorant slackers...

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 3:05PM

"dumb, lazy, ignorant slackers..."

Can you not make an argument without resorting to ad-hominem attacks?

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 3:55PM

Okay,

And I quote you.

"djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 1:34PM

Doctor Right,

And I think you'r an A-hole. Offended? Eat a dick."

Short term memory loss, there ol' djtoland? Overdosing on your CA meds in your bong?

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 4:05PM

DTOM,
Dr Right started the first ad-hominem attack on me. Read his first reply to me and you'll see what I mean. So no memory loss on my part, just selective quotes from you.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:27PM

So, you decided to fight back using the dreaded, and pointless ad hominem and when your own was returned to you, your response is, "Well, he did it first!"

Do you spend a lot of time on the playground everyday? Yep, there's another one, but you are just too easy of a target. And again, I responded to you with a logical argument, then launched the ad hominem...remember why?

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 5:50PM

Just like everyone else, I get offende by ad-hominem attacks, and I respond in kind.
BTW, what logical argument are you talking about?

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 6:26PM

Up above, at 3:52 PM, where I quoted Matthew Quigley about the Iranian attacks.

And, in light of your more recent posts, I take back the "Junior."

But I can whip it out in a second, if I need it.

Notice how quiet it's gotten in here. I think the bars are opening up!

Don't Tread On Me!

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 6:07PM

I could, but it's not as much fun, and only half as true.

And I DO think the idiots in "OWS" are dumb, ignorant slackers.

Don't like it?

Tough crap. Truth hurts.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 7:27PM

You're right, it is more fun, you feeble minded old bastard. Be sure and take your Geritol today and don't forget to change your Depends....

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 8:18PM

This from the man who responded FU.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 9:41PM

And your point is?

Boar Hunter| 11.12.11 @ 12:04PM

FU

djtoland| 11.12.11 @ 12:48PM

Right back at you Pig Porker

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 8:56PM

They are not rational. No rational country would be threatening enemies who have nukes.

Dimitri Aleksandrovich| 11.13.11 @ 3:10AM

You might be surprised that there are many Armenian and Assyrian Christians in Iran who have full rights as Iranian citizens and our free to worship in their own churches, study in their own schools (where Christian teaching is freely taught) and free to follow their own culture, traditions and customs. Not only Chistians are allowed this right in the Islamic Republic of Iran but so are Jews and Zoroastrians.

RCV| 11.13.11 @ 8:42PM

Except when Iran decides to persecute their Zoroastrian minority, which happens with regularity, terrorize Ba'hais (among the most gentle of faiths) and arrest groups of their Jewish citizens as "Zionist spies" which happens every few months ago. Try announcing in Tehran that you've decided to switch from Islam to Christianity and see how long you're around.

The rose-colored lenses worn by some on this site are astonishing - like Jack's thought that there could be a Palestine with a Muslim majority with "equal rights for Jews"! Sure .... That would happen!

Dimitri Aleksandrovich| 11.14.11 @ 3:11PM

I have no rose color lenses and I wouldn't doubt that religious minorities in Iran have a hard go at it, but compared to Saudi Arabia there is far more freedom for minorities both religious and ethnic in the Islamic Republic of Iran. Why isn't anyone mentioning that in Saudi Arabia even Filipino migrant workers are not allowed to practice Christianity...and Saudi Arabia is an ally of the United States.

Dimitri Aleksandrovich| 11.11.11 @ 9:46AM

My point is that the clerics who run Iran are NOT SUICIDAL and even if they have possession of a nuclear weapon (which it looks like there is no evidence that they do) or are trying to build one (which cannot be confirmed either) I believe it is for purely defensive purposes. Nuclear powers aren't subject to air strikes and invasions as nations like Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, western Pakistan and Libya have been and quite possibly Syria and Iran being next on the list. It would mean that the enemies of Iran (the U.S., Israel and Saudi Arabia) would be forced to diplomatic options when dealing with Tehran with military options going out the window.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 3:57PM

Yeah, and Hitler had all of those Messerschmitts and U-boats for purely defensive purposes.

Hey, Hitler killed a lot more of your Russian fellows than we ever did. Patton was right, after all!

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:29PM

Dmitri;

How can you know whether the Mullahs are suicidal or not? There is NO way you can even infer that, much less prove it.

VBMax| 11.11.11 @ 6:19PM

I don't believe the mullahs, themselves, are suicidal because they love being the head honchos with all the perks that come with it. But they surely have no qualms about having their citizens be the human shields for their adventures. They'll be safe in their bunkers while the rest of their people take the hits.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 6:35PM

Yea, I'll give you the bunkers argument, and the human shield argument. But I still think that like Hitler, they'd go out in a blaze if it looked like their number was up.

One thing about our military history, we've always tried to be very careful about expending our soldiers' lives. They all are citizens and they do vote.

I am comparing us to say, Stalin's wholesale slaughter of returning troops after taking Berlin, the defense of Stalingrad, Hitler's no retreat policies, Japanese no-surrender policies, kamikazes, everybody in WWI, and so on.

I say, it's one reason we have been so strong, for so long. Our leadership has always had to be very respectful of all those future voters and give them the very best tools to fight with. I like that about America. Although a lot of people focus on what we spend on defense, not so many focus on how we spend it to protect our own people. Even when we do a bad job, it's a damn sight better than the rest of the world.

Dimitri Aleksandrovich| 11.13.11 @ 3:36AM

What does Hitler have to do with this conversation? Iran is not Nazi Germany it is the Shia Islamic Republic of Iran. Unlike the American allies in the Wahhabist Kingdom of Saudi Arabia there is religious freedom in Iran for Christians and Jews and Zoroastrians and minorities have full rights as Iranian citizens. So in which way is Iran like Nazi Germany, because they are opposed to the state of Israel that was founded upon the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian Christians and Muslims? If there is another holocaust in the Middle East it will be if the U.S., Israel and the Saudis succeed in toppling Assad in Syria and the Sunnis begin to massacre Christians, Alawites and Druze who are supporting Assad.

Dimitri Aleksandrovich| 11.13.11 @ 4:20AM

Over 27 million Soviet citizens perished during the war with Hitler's Germany. How many American's perished in that war? How many Brits perished in that war? The amount of Soviet citizens killed in that war numbers more than four and a half times more than all the Jews that Hitler killed during the war. I guess what I'm saying is I don't quite understand what you are trying to say in your remark about Russians.

Jonathan Gillespie| 11.11.11 @ 9:46AM

Ah, a former George H.W. Bush Defense Undersecretary. Now this is an unbiased source that could have absolutely no ties to questionable sources or conflicts of interest. Poor Eisenhower. He warned, too, about the MIC, and no one listened.

Paul's largest three blocks of donators are members of the U.S. Army, U.S. Air Force, and U.S. Navy. So please go ahead and call them weak on defense, too. Call them irresponsible or accuse them of "blaming America". No? Didn't think so.

Honestly, whenever someone trots out "blaming America" as a defense, I just assume they are either in someone's pocket as a propagandist, or have switched off their ability to think.

Iraq was sitting on WMD's too -- only they weren't, as I recall. The Soviets were going to bury us -- then they petered out. We're still engaged in Korea, functionally, and we have bases all over the world thanks to a world that ended over sixty years ago.

But it isn't enough, says the Hawk, as they print more debt and send off more men and women to die.

The comparisons between this situation and Hitler/Chamberlain are historically ignorant. Hitler demonstrated will and means way before he attacked. To compare a fascist economic superpower with Iran -- who is beyond poor -- is laughable.

Iran just had to put down another popular revolt. Its citizens aren't going to put up with their terrible government forever. Give it time, and it will crumble. Wade in with a military campaign, and you empower the corrupt leaders, who will then be able to point their fingers at the evil Satan of the west. Plus, the threat of a threat isn't a credible enough reason, not when we are BANKRUPT.

Consider the bigger threat: China. Will you have us sell them the debt, Mr. Babbin, to finance this war as we have the others? How dare you, sir.

But still, let's go to war with Iran. Engage in a military operation. Spread the United States Military further, chasing a "could-be-there" threat. All the while, finance the debt accrued by selling bonds to China. Sell our sovereignty out to the Chinese. Go ahead. Or print more money and buy the debt via the Fed. Either option attacks the spending power of our dollar and, in my opinion, is sabotage waged against the American people.

But don't let sense stop you. Drag our fighting men and women into a protracted war in Iran. Let's go house to house looking for the nukes. Let's engage an already-exhausted reservist system in a tangle. Forget Japan and its bamboo-spear toting school children. The fight in Iran would be horrific. But you don't care, because chasing shadows is worth it. I tell you a nation that forever chases shadows winds up in darkness.

When our currency becomes worthless, and we find our over-extended army in yet another episode of nation-building, maybe then you warhawks will be more reflective.

But I doubt it. Odds are you'll just find another pit to beat the war drums about.

Long after so many of you are dead, the young people of this nation, like my generation and my daughter's, will be left behind to fix the policy mistakes left behind by the terrified boomers. Consider carefully the United States you leave us.

Go ahead and flame me. We're broke, you're wrong, you have no proof, and nothing can change that.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 10:04AM

really? just like japan would never attack us. but on Dec 7, 1941 they did what you hide your head in the sand gutless whinebags said they wouldnt do.

biggest contributors are the military? let me guess, all those who have been dishonorably discharged or got out on conscientious objector status.

listen up BOY! iran has stated if it could it would destroy America and Israel. you would just WATCH them.

1. iran has tested high altitude rockets
2. iran has tested seabased platform launches
3. now iran is sending a ship to sit off the coast of America
4. one high altitude nuke will cause an EMP
5. if iran has a nuke and launches it from a ship over the eastern seaboard, it wont be like hiroshima or nagasaki. it will be an EMP strike that will blackout the entire eastern seaboard of America.

then tell me WHAT America could do? when it is blind and back in the Stoneage? come on! tell me BOY!

Jason D| 11.11.11 @ 10:06AM

If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 10:12AM

if your aunt had balls there would at least be one male in your family.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:19AM

BWAHAHAHAHHA!!!!

Well played, DDog! And happy belated birthday & current Veterans Day!

nister| 11.11.11 @ 10:56AM

Whew! Someone's got the wind up their skirts.

If Iran could attack with an EMP..wouldn't Israel be the target? After all, America could retaliate from any compass point. Your vaunted EMP wouldn't stifle response for a second.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:11AM

nister, why dont you ask the joint chiefs about that little scenario? you would be surprised at teir answer BOY!

what could America do? with half the country blackedout? what would your vaunted leaders in DC do? well since the whitehouse and congress have shelters that are hardened, IF they could get to them AFTER an EMP strike.

whats that? you have no idea what an emp strike would actually do? never researched it? never heard of it until now and just summarily dismiss it out of hand?

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 12:18PM

Teufelhuden,
Boy, we are in Afghanistan and Iraq, and we're also sending in drones to Pakistan and Yemen. So now you want to send our soldiers to fight and die in Iran, because they might have a nuclear weapon? Have you ever thought about why they hate us? Do you think they hate us for our freedoms, or because we overthrew their government in 1953? I believe "what goes around, comes around." I believe that if we leave the Iranians alone, they will leave us alone - how about we give that a try, for once.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 1:34PM

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice."

- Barry Goldwater

I believe in "blow-back", too. And from where I'm standing, the Iranians have been owed some serious blow-back since 1979, except Jimmy carter was too much of a pussy to do it.

Do you think the hostages were released on Reagan's inauguration day by accident?

You're kind of like those fools who walk around saying things like "Karma's comin!" when somebody does something to them that they don't like. They never stop to consider that maybe Karma just "came back" on them.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 1:42PM

So we owe the Iranians blowback for 1979, but they don't owe us any blowback for 1953? Is that your logic?

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 2:52PM

We gave them the Shah. He transformed them from a 15th-century backwater into a modern, 20th-century nation.

The Islamo-Nazis have taken them back to the Middle Ages.

You claim to have lived in the Middle East. If you liked it so much, why are you here?

If the Iranians truly want revenge for 1953, then I say bring it.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 3:17PM

Doctor Right,
So Iran should be grateful to us for "giving them the Shah?" Do you really believe that? Turn it around and imagine if another country overthrew our government and "gave us a Shah". Would you be grateful to have a puppet government run by a foreign country? Somehow I don't think so.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 6:14PM

You're ignorant of history, so here's a free lesson:

Mossadegh was playing footsie with the Soviet Union. You're probably too young to remember the USSR, but that's what Russia was called for 74 years, starting in 1917.

The USSR was Communist. Not the warm, fuzzy Communism that your idiot professors told you about (and that never existed), but REAL, hardcore Communists. They were, as Ronald Reagan said, an evil empire dedicated to Communist expansion. Under Communism, 38 million Russians disappeared. In other words, they were murdered by their own government.

So yes, we did the Iranians a BIG favor by getting rid of Mossadegh.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 6:58PM

Dr Right,
If we did the Iranians a BIG favor by getting rid of Mossadegh, why aren't they grateful? So if Iran came in here and got rid of Obama for us, would you be grateful to them? I know this is a tough one, but I would rather vote Obama out of office than have a foreign country take him out. And if a foreign country did take him out, that would be an act of war and treated as such, wouldn't it? I really think you have to look at this issue from both sides, theirs and ours.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 8:58PM

djitoland:

they are not grateful because they are MUSLIMS.

Muslims always hate Kaffirs. If Iran was supporting the Soviet Union, then they were ripe for overthrow. Carter was a blind idiot, and still is.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 4:04PM

And Billy Mitchell predicted that Japan would attack the US by launching waves of bombers from carriers placed NW of Pearl Harbor on a Sunday morning. In 1924! For you math, or history challenged types, that'd be 17 years before it happened!

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.m.....asp?id=739

Jason D| 11.11.11 @ 9:47AM

I am reading some of the more intelligent posts here and all the neocons do is resort to ad-hominem attacks just like most liberals do. You should look into the agenda of The Project for a New American Century and its cast of characters. They are not conservatives. They are progressives who infiltrated the Republican Party. They follow a Wilsonian Foreign Policy. I am not sure how in 100 years the Republican party went from fighting this type of foreign policy to totally embracing it.
This country will have no military defense if the economy fails. The only way to pay for these conflicts around the world is to borrow money from the federal reserve. We will not be able to pay them back and when the BRIC nations decide to quit using the dollar for foreign exchange, we will see large amounts of inflation and will no longer be able to afford even half of our military capacity. Our defense will suffer and the great US will a second rate nation because we didn't listen to the true conservatives who were warning us of both the coming housing crisis and now the coming dollar crisis.

axbucxdu| 11.11.11 @ 11:17AM

This is the second time that pointing out our monetary weakness has sent these faux-cons scurrying for the safety of their rocks.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 4:10PM

Ever take a look at the covariance between US military strength and the US dollar? Whenever we increase our military profile, the dollar gets stronger.

Exactly how does your name calling refute the incontrovertible intelligence of carrying the battle to our enemies as opposed to letting them bring it here, as they did after eight years of Clinton military dithering?

And how exactly do you define a neo-con? And while you are at it, what exactly is a "progressive Republican" other than a couple of multitsyllabic words you've strung together for impact?

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 4:20PM

DTOM,
quote: "Whenever we increase our military profile, the dollar gets stronger" endquote

Using your logic, the dollar should be very strong right now, as we have our military involved in 4 countries. How do you reconcile the dollar's present weakness right now with your above statement?

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:31PM

No, you are incorrect, we have been cutting military spending on a % of GDP basis for two decades now. Look it up. Remember the "peace dividend?"

And isn't the unconstitutional Super committee on the verge of a unilateral cut of DOD spending?

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 5:54PM

I sure hope that the Super committee fails and we cut military spending, but that would be too much to ask.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 6:47PM

Strong military~strong dollar, be careful what you wish for!

axbucxdu| 11.12.11 @ 12:54AM

DTOM thank you for reinforcing my argument, though I'd say that you're confused about cause and effect. Military "profile" is a trailing indicator to economic strength. The trouble with a bijective relationship is that only one side of your equation is controllable by the USG.

That military profile depends far more on the reserve status of the dollar and the continued kindness of strangers that it buys than the dollar depends on those battle groups. Hopefully, the Pentagon is now more concerned about how it is going to function without "this signal privilege" when the time comes, than it is about stamping every musi out of existence or getting all the floral arrangements made for the latest NATO shindig. You should be too, because your covariance demonstrates as the dollar goes, so later does military power.

Being sensible about our limitations implies "letting them bring it here" ? You need another buyline.

As for the rest, it's you that has strung those "multitsyllabic words" together not me.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 9:01PM

Ab whatever---the Islamists are our next totalitarian enemy. You can knock them out now or later. If you wait until later it will be more expensive in lives and money.

Disengagement will result in encouragement. You obviously haven't worked with as many psychopaths as I have, clinically, which is to be expected, as I doubt you were ever a psychiatrist for the Aloabama Chain Gang, as I was. Advise reading "The mask of sanity."

axbucxdu| 11.12.11 @ 10:04PM

You can't fight if you're bankrupt, it's as simple as that. Wake up: Looming destitution is the next totalitarian enemy.

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 12:20PM

Wake up. Do you want another 4 more years of Obama by placing your vote for a man who is a terrorist sympathizer? (Ron Paul).

Wake up, indeed.

There is a bankruptcy which kills worse than war.. and he possesses it.

axbucxdu| 11.13.11 @ 10:09PM

Prejudge and presume somewhere else.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 1:45AM

After you, hypocrite!

axbucxdu| 11.14.11 @ 12:01PM

"Do you want another 4 more years of Obama by placing your vote for a man who is a terrorist sympathizer? (Ron Paul).

Wake up, indeed."

Was it you that posted this or someone else?

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 2:17PM

Yes, it was, fool.

axbucxdu| 11.14.11 @ 6:51PM

"...Wake up, indeed."

..., fool."

What statement have I made that indicates I'm asleep, and what statement was foolish?

Angie| 11.11.11 @ 9:56AM

I am not afraid of Iran. I am not afraid of terrorists. What I am afraid of is not being able to afford a loaf of bread and not being able to find a job.

Only the rich elite beat the drums of war and then send middle-class kids in uniforms to their death.

I'm very sorry for Israel and the fact that they can't get along with their neighbors, but this is not the United States of ISRAEL. This is the United States of America, we have serious problems at home to deal with.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 10:16AM

dipshit! iran has publicly stated that they want to destroy America. always trying to tie the Israel tag to America as an EXCUSE to do nothing but hide your head in the sand.

the world is an ugly place. you have been sheltered your whole life.

i bet you were all for ovomit and his illegal war in lybia.

Angie| 11.11.11 @ 10:33AM

Actually, I was opposed to interfering with Lybia.

And even if Iran does hate us and say they want to destroy us, it doesn't mean they can do it. They are very, very far (oceans away) from my world. Even at the remote chance that one rouge terrorist gets over here, how much damage could they really do? Will they kill 1,000,000 people? Because that is how many die of heart disease each year. Could they kill 50,000 people? Because that is how many people die in car accidents.

Life is full of risks. We still each french fries and burgers and we all still drive in cars. Sorry that Iran doesn't like us and there are bad people out there trying to kill us, but have some perspective please!

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:15AM

they are very very far away. ask the japanese of WWII how far away America was. are the germans. how far away were the muzzies on 9/11? especially since they were mostly from saudi arabia. how far is saudi from iran?

and iran has missiles that reach 2,700 miles and have stated they will be positiooning military ships off our COASTLINE!

and yes death is a prt of life. but understand that the iranian leaders are NOT SANE!

during the coldwar we had MAD. the muzzies dont care if we destroy them. as loing as they destroy us at the sametime they see it as a ticket to Heaven. they are more spirirual than Americans. they BELIVE heart and soul! how many Americans do that? ost, over half, just give lip service to their many religions.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 4:12PM

Oh yeah, they are really, really far away from the Pentagon, the World Trade Center, and an empty field in Pennsylvania.

Slow learner, eh?

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 6:49PM

Angie,

The terrorists are making economic war on us. Remember, their first target was the World TRADE Center. IF they wreck our economy (although it looks like Obama's beating them to the punch, here.) then you won't have a job or be able to buy bread. That is how they are making war on us. Pay a little better attention, maybe.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 9:03PM

And we will have more serious problems when Iran explodes an EMP atomic over our East Coast.

Vote for the guy who will lower taxes, Angie. Then you will be able to get a job.

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 12:22PM

Yup. And if Angie votes for Ron Paul she'll ge another 4 yrs. of Obama, and will have a small chance of getting that loaf of bread she is so worried about getting now.

If she thinks things can't get any worse than they are now, then vote for Ron Paul and see.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 9:58AM

just nuke the ragheads and be done with it. all these bleeding hearts out there can go there just before we nuke them. they will be right at home with their fellow whackos

Dimitri Aleksandrovich| 11.11.11 @ 10:04AM

I am more conservative than you Teufelhunden.

Jason D| 11.11.11 @ 10:05AM

Yes a great idea, lets kill a bunch of women and children. Such an enlightened thought. That won't create more terrorists at all. What do you think of our oncoming debt and dollar crisis? I am sure it will be equally enlightening.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 10:13AM

oh boo fracking hoo! women and children. yes lets just sit back and die because we dont want to harm the nits that will grow up to kill us.

nits make lice BOY!

Jason D| 11.11.11 @ 10:22AM

Haha, we are going to die, how? I can't decide if you are troll if you are, well done, you got me. If not, as a Christian, I have a hard time seeing how someone would wish this on their fellow men.

Many people try to rationalize mistreatment and the destruction of other people byviewing them as subhuman. Hitler was able to get a huge number to do this, Mao did this, Stalin did this. But in a Christian nation with free thinking people it is hard for me to believe that there are people who would truly believe something like this.

I am all for going after bad guys but I went to school with several Iraninans they were good people and educated people and they had crazy leaders. Just like here we have good people and usually crazy leaders.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 10:41AM

1. death is PART OF LIFE! yes we are going to die. or are you saying you are immortal?
2.wish what? the destruction of a gubmint and way of life that is a direct threat to liberty and freedom? that is called self defense for those who have the stomach to LIVE LIFE.
3.subhuman? is that how YOU see people? i see them as the ENEMY whose deepest desire is our destruction. nothing more, nothing less.

the nits make lice reference is an apt one. until you learn how life works, you will continue thinking that nits grow up and become sentient beings.

and always trying to use ASSOCIATION of hitler and stalin when trying to say we shouldnt kill our enemies but instead should bury our heads.

lets see, the grand mufti was an ally of hitler. so you saying you are a htiler fan?

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 4:14PM

Jason,

If you are a Christian, then you do you believe in evil.

Guess what, Iran is ruled by evil men.

Get it yet?

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 10:22AM

oncoming dollar crisis? it has more to do with spending on social programs like SS, medicaire, medicaid, foodstamps, welfare and all those other socialist programs than it does with military spending.

all those give aways to those who chose NOT to EARN. just like giving to the wetbacks who are here illegally.

that and all the taxes and regulations this gubmint shoves down our throats. we did just fine without taxes and regulations and became the worlds dominant power. but now that gubmint has taken upon itself to be big brother and tewll us what is good foer us because it thinks that we dont know anybetter and NEED them to think for us, we have slowly sunk.

The Stages of The Rise And Fall of All Great Nations
History shows us that all of the great nations of the world have never lived much more than 200 years, and there has been sequential stages in every case.
The first stage moves from bondage to spiritual faith. The second from spiritual faith to great courage. The third stage moves from great courage to liberty. The fourth stage moves from liberty to abundance. The fifth stage moves from abundance to selfishness. The sixth stage moves from selfishness to complacency. The seventh stage moves from complacency to apathy. The eighth stage moves from apathy to moral decay. The ninth stage moves from moral decay to dependence. And the tenth and last stage moves from dependence to bondage.

1: Greatly expanded government spending for every conceivable means of getting rid of ever larger sums of American money as wastefully as possible.

2: Higher and then much higher taxes.

3: An increasingly unbalanced budget, despite the higher taxes.

4: Wild inflation of our currency.

5: Government controls of prices, wages and materials, supposedly to combat inflation.

6: Greatly increased socialistic controls over every operation of our economy, and every activity of our lives. This is to be accompanied naturally and automatically by a correspondingly huge increase in the size of our bureaucracy and in both the cost and reach of our domestic government.

7: Far more centralization of power in Washington and the practical elimination of our state lines.

8: The steady advance of federal aid to gain control over our school system leading to complete federalization of our public education.

9: A constant hammering into the American consciousness of the horror of modern warfare.

10: Consequent willingness of the American people to allow the steps of appeasement by the government.

Jason D| 11.11.11 @ 10:28AM

The military spending makes up half the budget... Defending this nation doesn't cost half the budget. Maybe we should worry about our own borders instead of Iraqs and Afghanistans. Also calling people wetbacks or any other name to group them is how collectivists view people. Socialsists and Fascists view people these ways but free thinkers shouldn't. We have individual rights in this countryand should not have rights for belonging to groups. At the same time we shouldn't use blanket statements to diminish people in groups. That is not how a Christian person in a Christian nation should think.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:35AM

It makes up 20% of the budget, dude. That's a damn sight far away from "half."

"Lies, damned lies, & statistics."

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 2:55PM

The OWS losers must be bored; they've invaded the forum.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 10:36AM

BS!
1. the cost of the military is nowhere near your socialist programs.
2. our defending countries like germany and england are the wastes in our defense
2. calling people names hurts your poor widdle feelings? it offends you? to fracking bad
4. collectivists? try American patriot who fought for his country
socialist? fascism? really? thats the best those who have never known war can do? you mean slaves not freethinkers. what is a freethinker? is that the same as the hippies of the sixties and seventies who are now college professors? like feminist studies and black studies and homo history and telling kids to feel good about themselves that it is societies fault and not theirs.

unicorns and fairies make your dinner?

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 11:13AM

" The United States, with a budget of $698 billion, spends more on defense than the next seventeen nations combined. The United States military spending is almost six times that of the next biggest spender, China ($119 billion) and more than eleven times that of Russia ($59 billion).

The Department of Defense budget in fiscal year 2010 accounted for 19% of the United States federal budget and 28% of estimated tax revenues. The U.S. accounts for 40% of the world’s yearly defense outlays."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:18AM

worn out clit,

America spends as much as it does protecting europe and japan and s korea when they have the economies to do it themselves.

and would you have America second or third or fiftieth in the world in defesnse?

now how about you try and post what America spends GDP wise on socialist programs that you favor. whats that? I CANT HEAR YOU!

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 12:10PM

How about We Stop Using Our American Warriors As Cannon Fodder To ForceFeed Democracy Around The Globe & To Police The World.
And How About We Let Other Countries' Taxpayers Pay To Defend Their Own Countries, Instead Of Putting It Into Their Economies & Using Our American Warriors And Our American Taxpayers' Money To Do It For Them.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 8:20PM

I agree, lets send you over there.

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 9:21AM

You're A Typical Israel Firster Neo-Chickenhawk Coward, Volunteering To Send Other Americans Over There To Do Your Fiighting For You.

Boar Hunter| 11.12.11 @ 12:06PM

I know you wont fight for me Clint, but maybe Ill get lucky and you will be killed by the muslims you love so much.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 12:29PM

BOY Teufelhunde,
I think of defense of the US as defending our borders only, not everyone else's. How is invading a country that has not attacked us defense? It sounds more like offense.

W.T. Foxtrot| 11.11.11 @ 2:56PM

They did attack us. It was called 9/11.

And here's a little bit of "realpolitik" for you.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 3:33PM

WT,
The 9/11 attackers came from Saudi Arabia, not Iran.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 2:58PM

How stupid are you? Seriously.

Germany never attacked the US borders, either, between 1939-1945. I guess we shouldn't have gone to war against them?

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 3:25PM

Doc,

How stupid are you, seriously? You're equating WWII Germany with Iran? Iran can't even produce enough gasoline for themselves. How can you compare Iran's little navy and nonexistent air force to the German WWII war machine? They are different by orders of magnitude.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 4:21PM

djtoland,

Einstein, they have already, repeatedly demonstrated longer range surface-surface missiles capable of carry a smaller nuclear warhead. Base it in South America, place it on a commercial ship and launch it from four or five hundred miles offshore and even they cannot miss the US.

Scared yet? What, not smart enough to be scared? Wise up!

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 4:37PM

DTOM,
Iran hates us because of what we've done to them. Leave them alone, and I believe they will leave us alone. Just because a country has a nuclear weapon, doesn't mean they will use it. We drew first blood with the Iranians, everything else is blowback. We need to mind our own business and quit interfering with other sovereign countries.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:34PM

So what is your bright idea for dealing with them?

Surrender?

Remember Obama has already gone over to the Middle East a couple of times to apologize for our past actions taken in what we defined, at the time in our own self-interest.

Whose interest should we act in, anyway?

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 5:58PM

DTOM,
Surrender? We are not at war with Iran, so how could we surrender? Why don't we just leave them alone?
We always act in our own self interest, that is why we installed the Shah in the first place.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 9:07PM

Dj---it is wise to base your defense against an enemy on what they CAN do to you, rather than what you HOPE they will do.

But, of course, my job demands that I consider unpleasant life threatening irrational actions everyday, and take responsibility for them even if I can't entirely control them. I doubt your job has ever involved going out to view a man hanging from a tree to see if you can identify him as a patient that you screened in the hospital ER the night before.

When you grow up, please let us know.

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 12:23PM

Wow, O.T.
Bless you.

djtoland| 11.13.11 @ 2:32PM

OT,
I agree with your statement:
"it is wise to base your defense against an enemy on what they CAN do to you, rather than what you HOPE they will do."

There are currently 12 countries with nuclear weapons, including countries with unstable regimes such as North Korea and Pakistan. Kim Jong Il is a scary bastard to have control of nukes - and we have to do what we can to defend ourselves accordingly.

Would Iran having nukes force us to change our defensive posture against a nuclear attack?

Is Ahmadinejad really suicidal, and would he launch a pre-emptive strike that would most certainly result in a mushroom cloud over the entire country of Iran? Remember that the ruling class of a country are NOT suicide bombers...they are the privileged elite living lives of luxury in the here and now. I submit that they don't want to give up the very real power, and the real wine, women, and luxury that go along with their position, for the maybe, possible 72 virgins of the after-life. Who knows, maybe there was a typo in the Koran, and it is actually a 72 year old virgin waiting for you.....

Because no matter how much damage they inflicted on their target, is there any scenario that doesn't end with a huge mushroom cloud over all of Iraq, and Ahmadinejads and all of his buddies certain death?

Now, isn't that a grown up argument? And if you respond, I'd appreciate it if you left out any ad-hominem attacks.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 6:18PM

Easy, dummy.

Fascism is fascism. And Iran will have nukes. Hitler never did.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 6:50PM

He was certainly trying!!!

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 4:17PM

MORON!

The us military is 20% of the budget.

Look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.....ral_budget

Then re-think your ill-informed opinions based on facts that actually reflect reality.

Dimitri Aleksandrovich| 11.13.11 @ 4:24AM

We are borrowing money from Saudi Arabia and China and the Fed is printing our money as if it was toilet paper to cover those debts further driving down the value of the dollar and a lot of the borrowing and printing is to cover the costs of American Empire...wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Libya and so on and so forth not to mention the U.S. military bases in almost every nation on earth.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 9:04PM

DDog, that is brilliant.One of these days we need to meet in Steel Town and take Con Chef out for Dinner.

Paul Kotik| 11.11.11 @ 10:13AM

There is a plausible scenario in which Obama orders massive US strikes on Iran.

It's this: BUSH DID IT. All Obama has to do is what he always does when he faces criticism: blame George W. Bush.

I hope this is what happens. I'm going broke trying to pay off all the gambling debts I incurred on January 19, 2009, when George W. Bush left office without having struck the Iranian nuke program. If we strike Iran now, and the President assures us that it was really George W Bush that did it, well, I say I'll have won my bet.

At any rate, the matter will be tied up in Bar Bet Court of Appeals for years....

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 4:22PM

I don't think he could afford the loss of his leftwing base that would ensue.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:14AM

Jack in WI Wrote:

"After he left my old man said to me." I would rather be a live coward any day. "

Guess you were raised to be a coward from the get go. I'm starting to understand you more & more.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 10:25AM

as we say, " may you live forever" and he wants to live forever.

for those that dont understand, it means that cowards run and hide or when found SURRENDER all their liberties and freedoms and become willing slaves. they have no Honor. they only think of themselves and not about principles or duty.

i would rather die with Honor and Glory than live a slave

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:37AM

Ooh-rah! At least Jack admits he's a yellowbellied coward.

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 11:33AM

The Big Yellow Israel Firster Neo-Chickenhawk Bus Calls Someone Yellow.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 11:56AM

Did you ever even TRY to voluteer, or were you too busy riding the bench playing DIII football?

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 1:36PM

Clown College is Division III?

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 9:12PM

Doctor Right: it is rarely that I need to correct you and be absolutely sure of my facts in doing so, but this is such a case.

Clown College had a more selective admission rate than Harvard Law, and, having had a neighbor of mine growing up as a graduate of same, and a friend of mine who graduated from Harvard law (and an old girlfriend who made Michigan law Review), I can tell you that it was much more academically intense. Classic "Emmett Kelly" type clowning is an art form.

Clint could never have passed those classes. He couldn't have volunteered for the Services, either, as years of anal rape from his dad left him with an overly patent anus, which is evident from his posts here.

I'm sure he was fine in Division II.

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 11:36PM

Tool Job Gets Expelled From Clown College On A Morals Charge.

http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/.....ap-man.jpg

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 2:57PM

Wrong Division, Cookie Boy.

You Could Have Served Our Training Table Meals.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 3:13PM

I don't feed people with the palates of a camel's ass.

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 5:31PM

You Don't Feed Your Relatives.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 9:14PM

Sorry, Clint? Con is my landtzman---rest assured my palate is fine. You are the Palestinian terrorist supporter he was referring to---again, because of your penchant for sodomy.

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 11:37PM

Tool Job Services The Israeli Troops.

http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/.....ap-man.jpg

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 10:51AM

They had a word for people like Jack in Holland and France between 1940-1945:

COLLABORATORS.

Ever see what happened to them after the war? Not pretty...

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:59AM

Too bad Soros missed HIS appointment in that regard.

DatsunMark| 11.11.11 @ 10:17AM

It is not too late for another course of action....flood Iran with guns and counterfeit money. Bring hyper-inflation to the Mullahs. Supply the opposition groups and make their country into an insurgency.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 10:27AM

ovomit would rather watch the iranian midget murder his own people when they rose up and then help the terrorists in egypt and lybia and now syria whe they rise up against gubmints that are existing in peace with their neighbors.

ovomit will never do anything to upset his chances for the title of "twelth mullah"

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 4:23PM

Kinda' like we've done to Mexico? Fast and Furious and all?

That'll never work.

Brett D| 11.11.11 @ 10:26AM

I have yet to see an answer to this, but if Iran does get a nuclear weapon, how could they use it to attack Israel?

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 10:29AM

1. iran has SUCCESSFULLY tested high altitude missiles.
2. iran has SUCCESSFULLT tested seabased launch platforms.
3. iran has ranges of 2,700 miles on their missiles
4. iran now has military ships in the med.
all it take is ONE, thats ONE. high altitude nuke to cause a massive EMP that would wipeout all of Israels electronics.

Brett D| 11.11.11 @ 10:36AM

Ok, fair enough.

Now, how would they use such missiles without setting off early warning systems and how might they defeat the dozens of missile defense systems in the area?

I mean, it's one thing that they have missiles, it's another that this is the most dense missile defense sector on the planet.

Anyone?

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:38AM

Iron Dome can defend against the Grad & Kassam rockets. I don't think that they have a system for medium range ballistic missiles. If they do, its not NEARLY as effective as Iron Dome.

Jason D| 11.11.11 @ 10:49AM

We actually do have defenses to this from some of our ships. So it would not surprise me if we had the same in Israel and other allies countries. I had a friend who was working on some of this about 10 years ago. Apparently it has been around for quite awhile within our fleets.

Jason D| 11.11.11 @ 10:53AM

I believe you have to be within certain area close to the target so that you can on the opposing trajectory to the other missle. It works very well for ship fleets sice they are the target. Iran hasn't tested a single warhead and I don't want them to, but I also have sense to realize that the people are close to overthrowing the country and that we don't want war with them. The country has 3 times as many people as Iraq.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:22AM

USS STARK? how well did the missile defense work?

what happened to the HMS Sheffield?

why is the first line of defense for ships the airwing?

how many ships does the Israeli navy have that are armed with antiship missiles?

Brett D| 11.11.11 @ 12:09PM

Thanks for pointing out some historical events on a topic of much interest to me. I haven't heard of the USS Stark event before.

However, these examples are 20-30 years ago. Our technology has improved dramatically. Perhaps, some of our navy guys would care to elaborate as I'm not proficient enough on their technology to explain them accurately.

Matthew Quigley| 11.11.11 @ 1:28PM

Also helps if you actually have an effective Navy, and we're below three hundred ships now.

Not much of a Navy and my Air Force has almost no strategic assets. This ain't a good thing.

Brett D| 11.11.11 @ 11:29AM

You are somewhat correct and I am glad you have taken concern in this aspect.

There are several layers of our defense, all improving in probability of a kill as you get nearer to the target asset. I can't really get into range...

Iran does have warhead technology and some of this technology deals with decoys. This might be a concern if we were dealing with a country like Russia, whom has tens of thousands of nuclear warheads; however, it is all but irrelevant with Iran. We do have measures for this.

You hit on probably the most important aspect - the people of Iran. Before Iran would take such opportunity to attack Israel, it is HIGHLY likely that their people will overthrow their government.

It is important to understand that Iranians are relatively anti-Israel, but ironically PRO-American. This defies my own logic as you would think after overthrowing their democratic government in 1953 and allowing the Shah to come back into power would make them hate us. However, it's mostly not the case and this is especially true of the young generations of Iranians. We risk threatening that pro-western mentality as we speak.

The only real threat from Iran comes from a small faction within the Iranian government and Revolutionary Guard that is Islamic radical.

All this talk of war against Iran is all by design as you better believe we are heavily invested in psyop campaigns against Iran, including campaigns against our own people here in America.

In this regard, I'm sad to have to admit that when we go into Iran, it will be perpetuated by lies generated from our own military psyops and pushed through our media conglomerates owned by GE.. just as it is proceeding right now as we speak.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:57AM

Jason:

I was answering Brett's question about ISRAELI defenses. I knew about ours. I'm not sure about Israel's, other than what I know about Iron Dome.

Brett D| 11.11.11 @ 10:49AM

Well, there is Aegis, PATRIOT PAC-2 and PAC-3, THAAD, and Arrow2... but whose counting?

The question really is... does Shahab-1 through Shahab-5 missiles, Scud-B and Scud-C pose any threat to these systems?

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:59AM

No clue. But some of the new toys they're getting from the Ruskies & the Chinese might be game changers.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:25AM

Fritz X

1943

kg

320 kg

5 km

1235 km/h

none

Air

manual (radio link)

DE

used in combat

Henschel Hs 293

1943

kg

295 kg

5.0 km

828 km/h

Liquid-propellant, then gliding

Air

manual (radio link)

DE

used in combat

Kh-55

1984

kg

200 kt nuclear/410 kg conventional

3000 km

828 km/h

turbofan

Air

Inertial by Radar, TERCOM, Infrared

USSR/Russia

Blohm & Voss BV 246

1943

kg

435 kg

210 km

450 km/h (280 mph)

none

Air

manual (radio link)

DE

Ohka

1943

kg

1200 kg

36 km

630 km/h

Solid-propellant

Air

human kamikaze

JP

used in combat

Bat

1942

kg

273 kg

37 km

260–390 km/h

None

Air

manual (radio link)

USA

used in combat

Boeing Harpoon

1977

691 kg

221 kg

280 km

864 km/h

turbojet engine

Air, surface, sub

radar (B3: midcourse update)

USA

used in combat

AS.34 Kormoran

1991

630 kg

220 kg

35 km

Mach 0.9

rocket

Air

Inertial, active radar

DE

Penguin

1972

385 kg

130 kg

55+ km

high subsonic

Solid propellant

Air, surface, sub

Inertial, laser, IR

NOR

AGM-65F Maverick

1972

300 kg

140 kg

17 nm (30 km)

supersonic

Solid propellant

Air,

Laser, IR

USA

used in combat

Naval Strike Missile

2009

410 kg

125 kg

185 km

high subsonic

turbojet and solid fuel booster

Air, surface

Inertial, GPS, terrain-reference, imaging IR, target database

NOR

AGM-123 Skipper II

1985

582 kg

450 kg

25 km

1,100 km/h

solid-fueled

Air

laser-guided

USA

Aerospatiale SS.12/AS.12

1960

kg

28 kg

7 km

370 km/h

solid-fueled

Air, surface

wire MCLOS

FR

BGM-109B Tomahawk

1983

1.200 kg

450 kg

450 km

880 km/h

turbofan

Air, surface, sub

GPS, TERCOM, DSMAC

USA

used in combat

Rb 04

1955

kg

300 kg

32 km

subsonic

solid propellant

Air

active radar

SWE

RB 08

1966

kg

70 km

subsonic

turbojet

surface

radio link active radar

SWE

RBS-15

1985

800 kg

200 kg

200 km

subsonic

turbojet

Air, surface

inertial, GPS, radar

SWE

Exocet

1979

670 kg

165 kg

180 km

1134 km/h

solid propellant

Air, surface, sub

Inertial, active radar

FR

used in combat

Gabriel

1962

522 kg

150 kg

60 km

840 km/h

solid-fuel rocket

Air, surface

active radar

IL

used in combat

Otomat

1977

770 kg

210 kg

180+ km

1116 km/h

Turbojet

Surface

Inertial, GPS, active radar

IT

Martel

1984

550 kg

150 kg

60 km max

1070 km/h

solid propellant

Air

passive radar, video

UK/FR

Sea Eagle

1985

kg

230 kg

110 km +

1000 km/h

Turbojet

Air

Inertia, active radar

UK

Sea Skua

1983

145 kg

28 kg

25 km

950 km/h

solid fuel

Air

semi-active radar

UK

used in combat

RIM-66 Standard

1967

707 kg

blast fragmentation

74 to 167 km

4140 km/h

solid fuel

Surface

inertial, semi-active radar

USA

used in combat

RIM-67 Standard

1981

1.350 kg

62 kg

120–185 km

4140 km/h

solid fuel

Surface

inertial, semi-active radar

USA

LRASM

2013[3]

liquid fuel

Surface

USA

KSShch (SS-N-1 SCRUBBER)

1958

kg

nuclear

40 km

1150 km/h (Mach 0.95)

liquid-fuel rocket

Surface

inertial

USSR

P-15 Termit (SS-N-2 STYX)

1958

kg

454 kg

80 km

1100 km/h

Liquid fuel rocket

Surface

active radar, IR

USSR

used in combat

P-5 Pyatyorka (SS-N-3 SHADDOCK)

1959

kg

1000 kg

750 km

1000 km/h

turbojet

Surface

Inertial, mid course correction, active radar

USSR

KH-22 (AS-4 Kitchen)

1962

kg

conventional/nuclear 1000 kg

400 km

4000 km/h

liquid-fuel rocket

Air

inertial

USSR

P-70 Ametist (SS-N-7 STARBRIGHT)

1968

kg

500 kg

65 km

1050 km/h

solid rocket

sub

inertial, terminal homing

USSR

Moskit (SS-N-22 SUNBURN)

1970

4.500 kg

320 kg

120 km

3600 km/h

ramjet

Surface, Air

active radar, IR

USSR

P-120 Malakhit (SS-N-9 SIREN)

1972

kg

500 kg (1,100 lb)

110 km

Mach 0.9

Turbojet, solid fuel

Surface

Inertial, mid course correction, active radar

USSR

used in combat

P-800 Oniks (SS-N-26)

1983

3.000 kg

250 kg

300 km

3600 km/h

ramjet

Surface, Air

active-passive, radar

USSR

3M-54 Klub (SS-N-27 SIZZLER)

1993

1.300-2.300 kg

400 kg

300 km

735–3675 km/h

Turbojet

Surface, Sub

Inertial + Active Radar

USSR

Kh-35 (AS-20 KAYAK)

1983

520 kg

145 kg

130 km

970 km/h

turbofan

Surface, Air

Inertial, active radar

USSR

KH-15 (AS-16 Kickback)

1988

1.200 kg

150 kg conventional/nuclear

300 km

6200 km/h

solid-fuel rocket

Air

inertial or active radar

USSR

Hae Sung-I (SSM-700K)

2005

718 kg

300 kg

150 km

1013 km/h

Turbojet

Ship, Surface

Inertial, active radar

S.Korea

BrahMos

2006

2.500 kg (air), 3.000 kg (ground)

300 kg

290 km

3675 km/h

ramjet

Ship,Surface, Air,Sub

Inertial, active radar

India/Russia

DF-21D

2010

kg

Kinetic energy penetrator

1500+ km[4]

12250 km/h (Mach 10)

solid rocket

Transporter erector launcher, sub

Over-the-horizon radar, satellites, UAV, active sensor

China

Initial operating capability[5]

SOM (missil

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:26AM

sorry for the long post. it didnt take the format.

now how many have china and russia sold to iran?

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:35PM

Actually Teufel, it kind of makes a nice break from the inanity and insanity. I'm starting to like it....

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 10:48AM

what early warning systems? Israel doesnt have satellites that are watching iran. missile defense? really? they are only 20% effective IF you have any warning.

iraq had a better missile defense program and what did that get them? how many scuds did we successfully shoot down during the persian gulf war? one, two? out of how many? and ours is supposed to be the best!

and the most dense? really? guess you have never been to norad or moscow. Isreal's missile defense has done them how much good against the 10s of 1000s of rockets shot into Israel.

and finally, is Israel looking out to sea? are their defenses ready for a launch from just 50 miles off their shores?

it take MINUTES to detect. it takes MINUTES to get permission to respond. it takes MINUTES to react once you get permission.

minutes when seconds count

Brett D| 11.11.11 @ 11:15AM

You'll have to excuse me Teutelhunden and I hope you'll accept my apology, but this was a baited question.

I was 1 of about a dozen primary missile defense operators against Iranian missile threats for the U.S. Army branch of defense systems (PATRIOT) for this region. I trained exclusively for about 2 years against every missile type that Iran carries (which are poor technologies, BTW). I spent hundreds of hours practicing against worst-case scenario for Iranian assault, which exaggerated Iran's capabilities by probably 500%.

I don't expect you to know our capabilities, nor the potential threat of Iran, as it is impossible for you to. Unfortunately, there are aspects of the true defense capabilities in this region that will never be revealed to you, as these are highly classified and not for public consumption.

What I can do is point you all in the right direction, so that you can have the best unclassified information on this topic, in order for all of you to make a proper judgment.

With that said.. there are vast early warning systems in place that not only identify when a missile is about to launch or has launched, but often times give defense systems hours of advance warning. I won't get into satellites...

What you are citing about PAC-2 systems in Persian Gulf is not accurate, nor was it ever intended to be accurate. That data was perpetuated for obvious OPSEC purposes.

Since then, we have PAC-3 and other missile types and systems (such as THAAD, AEGIS) that are significantly improved. So improved, that I won't get into that much either...

Yes, this is in fact one of the most dense missile defense regions on the planet. We have sold our systems to Taiwan, Egypt, Germany, South Korea, Greece, Israel, Japan, Kuwait, Netherlands, Saudi Arabia, and United Arab Emirates.

In order for Iran to launch any nuclear payload at Israel, they would have to first defeat the missile defense systems in Iraq, UAE, Jordan, Kuwait, and Israel (and others). Just look at line of sight from Iran to Israel and you'll see it's a foolish argument. Since there is no way for Iran to defeat these systems, their only option would be to overwhelm them. In order to do that, they'd likely have to launch their entire arsenal of missiles, which is essentially impossible due to the amount of logistics that would involve, without clearly setting of early warning WORLDWIDE.

Our early warning systems that would allow us to send in our Air Force to take out most launch locations, prior to launch. Further, any missiles that do launch would then immediately identify launch locations we miss, so it is unlikely they could fire more than one volly from each location. This means that logistically, they not only have to beat our early warning systems and bypass our defense systems, but they'd also have to launch from multiple thousands of locations.

Every nuclear payload launched from Iran has an extremely high probability of being shot down over their own country and would cause widespread nuclear fallout for IRAN itself.

In conclusion, this is only my perspective as a PATRIOT operator in this region.. it does not factor AEGIS, THAAD, or the Israeli, Jordanian, Kuwaiti systems and personnel.. which I also trained side-by-side with.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:29AM

hours of alert time? BS! only with ICBMs do you get satellite advanced warnings. not with antiship missiles or scuds or anything else.

how many harpoons or excocets launches have you seen first hand and not PRACTICED!

maybe you shouls ask the crew of the USS Stark. or the crew of the HMS Sheffield.

you are being disengenious in telling that little lie.

Brett D| 11.11.11 @ 11:48AM

Sure you do. Yes, you are mostly correct about ICBMs, but that is for different reasons.

Are we to assume that we aren't monitoring on the ground activity? It takes a lot of personnel and resources to do just a single launch and the most efficient means for Iran to launch its missile arsenal is by mobile platform.

Let's not forget the highly likely CIA operations on the ground, please?

Why do you think Iran is making a heavy effort to take their capabilities underground. I would suggest that is the real threat we are concerned about and the only one worth noting. Yet, this is still an unreasonable argument because these are extremely expensive operations for Iran and this measure only improves their ability to reduce our early warning capabilities.

Until Iran has the ability to manufacture upwards of thousands of nuclear warheads.. it still doesn't change the fact that the only logical attack strategy of Iran would be an attempt to OVERWHELM missile defense.

In this regard, Iran would get nuked before it could ever take on such an effort. Further, such a scenario would play out in one of 2 ways: 1) Russia, China completely alienate Iran and their destruction would be assured, or 2) Russia, China defend Iran, WWIII begins and the world is destroyed in nuclear holocaust.

Considering our history with Iran, their own effort to establish missile defense, and weaponizing nuclear facilities is clearly an indication of their intent to beef up their defensive posturing and nothing more.

There may be some radical factions in Iran, but they aren't idiots. The people of Iran would certainly overthrow their government before any of this ever becomes a concern and we would certainly help them do it.

Ultimately, to fear Iran is unjustified and requires a reasonable man to disregard hundreds of factors.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 12:12PM

dummy warheads are a dime a dozen.

seabased platforms are the way iran is going.

how many cia operatives in iran? the iranian gubmint is actually very good at sniffing themout. this is the cia after all

Brett D| 11.11.11 @ 12:28PM

The AEGIS system has already proven highly successful against sea-based platforms, so again.. not a threat.

This is why Iran is highly involved in going underground.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 12:49PM

AEGIS didn't do shit against Exocet. USS Stark ring a bell?

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 4:29PM

So what assets do we have covering the Gulf of Mexico?

And counting on the sanity of the Iranian regime is a pretty pathetic defense strategy given the crazy stuff they say and have done, doncha think?

Thom| 11.11.11 @ 6:48PM

Brett D,
None of our Theater based systems have the range and speed to reach and overtake a multi stage ballistic missile short of being directly below its downward path like was demonstrated with our take down of a fixed orbiting satellite with an SM-3 pitched into its path. Nothing we have on board any ship in the Gulf or in any PAC battery can reach out and take out a multi stage ballistic missile rising from central Iran and arching over toward Israel. The best the PAC and SM3s can do is Point Defense and once the third stage of a ballistic missile has been spent for a typical 12,000 mph missile and payload those PAC defenses you mentioned between Iran and Israel are mostly for show as they simply do not have the power to get up high enough to intercept a IRBM or better in post boost. The single stage or stage and a half SM3 and PAC-3s have ranges somewhere between the old Sprint and the Spartan. The Aegis system for all its capability does not have the range and resolution nor does the PAC radar to even approach the range the old Spartan had. The size and power of a radar system capable of providing guidance for interception of a post boost multi-stage missile is considerably larger than anything you’ve seen with PAC and Aegis and not something you can typically cram on multi-use ship borne platform. That OTH radar set we towed to Hawaii when North Korea was monkeying around with their primitive multi-stage rocket is just the tip of the iceberg of what is needed to just detect and track a multi-stage ballistic missile warhead with sufficient resolution to put a longer ranged anti-missile system into play. If what you said about the PAC capability was true we wouldn’t have invested billions in a much more powerful and longer ranged system that can only be land based at this point for both the Northern US and South Eastern Europe. TMD are inherently Point Defense systems be it an incoming SCUD the size of a couple mini-vans end to end or the re-entry vehicle from an orbital weapon the size of large suitcase. If Iran develops a workable multi-stage IRBM or better both Aegis based SM3 and PAC systems will be reduced to interceptions within their effective capture ranges as they approach the target area. To suggest otherwise is to put forth a form of propaganda not supported by physical science.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 9:15PM

Don't have to---suicide mission ship, Brett. How many palis would volunteer for such a ship, Brett.

Jason D| 11.11.11 @ 10:37AM

The US has all of this and defenses for all of this. Not sure what Israel has but I am sure it is what we have since they are generally our puppet governement there. They get one shot and then we would take them out with ease. We were ready to fight the Soviets. We are wven better now. The Irans have a military that is more consistent with 1970s technology. I am not sure how anyone considers them any tyoe of serious threat.
The biggest threat they can cause us / the world is if they quit producing oil. It could cause some serious problems in the energy sector that would tranfer to the rest of the world. It would hurt oil dependent countries and help the other oil producers becuase the prices would rise rather dramatically.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 10:54AM

i was in the military during the coldwar. we were prepared against the soviets? now thats a HOOT! i poracticed daily for war with the soviet union, and let me tell you, we were NOWHERE near prepared.

unlike you, i know that the DOD play wargames playing out every possibility that they can think of. and they will NOT tell you, that any ship launching off our shores and we CANNOT stop it. the gubmint would rather give money to illegals than for defense. we are UNPREPARED! they TELL you we are prepared so that you will go blissfully unawares of the real danger. so you will live a normal life while hiding the danger from you.

or do you believe that our gubmint sdoesnt lie? if so, ask those pilots in Vietnam who got shot down after they were told that ours was the best fighters and that the Vietnamese didnt have sam's that could take out our aircraft. do you know the ratio during Vietnam of fighter on fighter shootdowns?

Kingofthenet| 11.11.11 @ 11:22AM

There is really no defense against a Cruise missile, I have no doubt , with dummy missiles you could get one thru to Israel, Of course Israel would get missiles thru too.

Brett D| 11.11.11 @ 12:02PM

We can identify dummy missiles vs. real warheads.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 12:14PM

BrettD,

really? you wanna stake your life on that? because if that were true, why would russia and china bother with dummy warheads?

Brett D| 11.11.11 @ 12:23PM

I would bet my life on it, but that is only because I know the extent of our missile defense technology.

Physics is a hell of a thing and the only time dummy warheads are much a threat are while in space...

Other than that, the technology can pick out a real warhead out of dozens of dummies. I can't explain why or how that works... but the general explanation is public knowledge if you would like to research further.

Russia and China aren't much interested in dummy warheads as they were. Again, much of what you are talking about is 20-30 years ago.

So much has changed.

Brett D| 11.11.11 @ 12:01PM

I appreciate your service and also your concern.

You and I both know that what you are stating about war games and the government is true. However, I have to point out that things have changed drastically since your time in service. The technology spectrum has advanced dramatically in the past 30 years.. and these advancements expand similar in nature to our computer industry.

Just in the past 10 years, the advancements that have occurred outweigh all the advancements that have been made in the past 100. It has made almost all threats of nuclear weaponry by air a non-threat; hence why Russia, China, and US are expanding into new technologies that manipulate the forces of NATURE. This is the true weaponry of the 21st century and the ones worth really talking about.

As for ships launching off our shore.. I'm sorry, but that is a complete non-issue these days. 1) these ships will never come close to our shores, and 2) the government has yet to reveal anything in regards to our true capabilities here.

We do live in dangerous times and at any given moment the world could be destroyed. This is all the more reason why we as a planet need to improve our diplomacy efforts and America needs to immediately disband it's geopolitical strategies that were born just after WWII.

The true nature of our foreign policy can be discovered and understood by reading "The Grand Chessboard". Perhaps, if every American read that book.. we ourselves would work to overthrow our own government as recommended by great men of old... such as Thomas Jefferson.

Kingofthenet| 11.11.11 @ 2:21PM

You sound like you are over confident. We had time between the first strike on 9/11 and subsuquent hit INCLUDING the Freaken Pentagon, if there was ANY one place in the USA to have a Working SAM system, that would have been it. Life isn't a Tom Clancy Techno Thriller.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 4:31PM

Eh! Hitler will never attack the Maginot Line, it is impregnable.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:37PM

Hey Brett D

Thank you for your service, sir. I'm just one of millions and millions of grateful citizens who are very clear on how our freedom (what's left of it...) is maintained.

Thom| 11.11.11 @ 8:44PM

“We were ready to fight the Soviets”.

We were ready as part of NATO forces, several times our total conventional strength to fight the Soviets only in Europe. We wouldn’t have had a chance against their conventional forces going it alone with what we maintained for conventional ground forces. I guess that is why we developed all those tactical nukes to break up their Tank Armies..... Yes we are way better now man for man but we have less than half the combat forces we had in 1988 and it took how many years in Iraq and Afghanistan where 1960s and 1970s weapons were the rule to overpower them?

Whoops, I forgot we are still in Afghanistan and “We are wven better now” than back in the old days of the Soviet Union…….

It took a 12 million man force to subdue Germany and Japan over a four year time period with millions more on our side than the Germans, Italians and Japanese had on their side and as demonstrated in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan our technology and force multipliers per man are not a substitute for the manpower it takes to take, hold ground and deny the enemy its use and ability to maneuver at will at they did in Iraq and currently in Afghanistan. The British were “wven better” than the Zulus at the battle of Isandlwana on paper too. They were slaughtered because they knew they “wven better” than the ignorant Zulu armed only with spears……

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 9:16PM

Jason---Iran produces 5% of the world's oil. Get the Canadian pipeline in and we can forget about economic repercussions from taking them out.

Our bottleneck is NOT oil supply, it is refinery capacity. Ken, I defer the rest of this conversation to you.

MT| 11.11.11 @ 10:32AM

This whole Iran policy is insane.

I'm infinitely more terrified of my own government and blowhards like Babbin than I am of the Iranians.

Ron Paul is right. Why wouldn't Iran want a weapon? After all, it was the US govt who is the only country in the history of the world to actually use nukes. It was the US govt who overthrew the democratically elected Iranian government in '53 when we sent in a coup along with Britain to protect their oil interests, and in the process, installed a ruthless authoritarian who oppressed the Iranian people for 2 decades before they revolted and brought the Ayatollah back from exile. It was the US govt who supplied Saddam with chemical weapons during their war with Iran. It was the US govt who imposed crippling sanctions and blockade which do nothing but hurt the people of the country in obtaining food and medicine and force them to rally around their leaders no matter how ruthless they may be. It was the US govt who invaded and occupied their 2 neighboring countries. It was the US govt who has parked warships off their coast and constantly threatened unilateral military action because they "might" get a weapon someday. It is alleged that the US CIA and Israeli Mossad may have something to do with Iranian scientists who have gone "missing".

Of course, there's also precedent for this. We talked Libya out of their nuclear program. They complied and then we toppled their government. So why wouldn't they think we would attack them anyway. Our govt has lost too much credibility.

We have NO business over there. Anybody who says otherwise is living in a dream world. If Israel wants to take them out, let them do it. I'm sick and tired of hearing this continued imperialistic and mercantilistic motivated warmongering in countries that do NOT threaten our national security.

And let's not forget... if we pre-emptively strike Iran, do you really think Russia and China will sit idly by and just allow it?

os| 11.11.11 @ 10:33AM

Babbin is so 2003.

Angie| 11.11.11 @ 10:36AM

Teufelhunden where do you live? Just curious. Are you a member of the military? You seem to have a bit of bloodlust. :0

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:40AM

Teufelhunden means "Devil Dog." That's what the Germans called the US Marines after the Muse-Argonne offensive in WWI. He's a Marine. And survivor of Beirut.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:00AM

Angie,

bloodlust? no. i have lived a long life and have faced our enemies. i know that unlike Americans with the attention span of a cockroach, the muslims are like the chinese and think in generations. i have seen the ugliness of war and wish it on NO-ONE! but i also live in reality. and KNOW that if given any chance at all, they wiould slice our necks and dnace on our bodies in a heartbeat.

the best defense is a strong offense. the only reason we won the coldwar was actually twofold.
1. MAD or mutual assured destrcution. the soviets were NOT crazy fanatics
2. our eceonomic stregnth, Reagan outspent the USSR and they went broke.

understand the enemy better than you know yourself and you will see what i am talking about.

try reading Sun Tsu or Clausewitz

Angie| 11.11.11 @ 11:38AM

Here is a big "Thank You" for serving on this Veterans Day.

I guess I just can't accept the fact that evil is the only response to evil. Jesus taught us otherwise.

I would rather live a short life filled with love and forgiveness and possibly be murdered than go around taking people out who I suspect are bad, living to a ripe old age filled with bitterness and hate.

But that's just me.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 4:34PM

Angie;

Jesus was preaching to individuals, not nations.

Turning the other cheek is the correct behavior for an individual seeking salvation.

It is not correct behavior for a nation attempting to preserve its hegemony over its own territory.

And nations can never achieve salvation, can they?

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 6:41PM

Angie, I believe DTOM stated the position simply and accurately.

I would just like to add;

Romans 13 verse 2:
"Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority (government) is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves" (Admittedly that cuts both ways and in the case of Obama I acknowledge I'm in trouble).

Roman's 13 verse 4:
..."be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

Let me repeat, "They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

Get it? They (the government) are human agents of God's wrath. That would be now, not in the hereafter. God will establish ultimate justice, but we, as a responsible society, cannot allow chaos to reign on earth simply because people like Clint are unwilling or emotionally unable to do what's necessary to protect our neighbors and the people we love.

Remember Angie, the bad men are not just killing Christians like you for which death holds no fear. The bad men are killing unsaved people as well.

I truly don't suggest you look up the details of twenty-four month old Amy Sue Seitz's murder, but within his diary, Amy Sue's murderer wrote, "I know what I do hurts the children, but by golly I enjoy it."

Angie there are evil people in this world who would kill and rape you because they find it fun and enjoyable not because it was an accident or a mistake, but because, "By golly I enjoy it."

In addition to the small sacrifice of our police and firemen, this veterans day, remember that young men have gone to war on your behalf. Some of these young men were nice boys once. Now they have become men who have seen things that cannot be un-seen and it has changed their kind and innocent hearts forever. You and other nice people who still have kind hearts are simply better off not seeing or knowing about some things.

You might not want to know about it, but you and other kind hearted souls like you are able to sleep soundly in your beds at night because rough men go out and do violence on your behalf.

It is because of their actions, that people who are unsaved, people God loves, still have the chance to learn about God's salvation through Jesus Christ and make their own choice concerning eternity.

Margie| 11.11.11 @ 8:10PM

BH,

Nah, you wouldn't be in trouble as far as in the case of Obama.

Unless you're breaking the law, which other than speeding down the highway or some such thing really doesn't count. OK, it counts but ya know.

Just want to remind you (in the case of Obama), what the Apostle Peter said:

"But Peter and the Apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men." Acts 5:29.

Heh, bottom line~ no worries.

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 8:25PM

yeah! I am still OK!

Angie| 11.11.11 @ 9:51PM

Thank you for your comment, BH. The world is so complex and sometimes a person can get so far into their own beliefs they have a hard time considering another's position. I must admit that you make very valid points and it has given me a lot to think about.

I'm not ready to admit that there are so many evil people in the world that preventing their potential heinous actions far outweighs the costs of incurring war. Perhaps I am naive, but I do believe the vast majority of people are the same. They just want to be healthy and safe, raise their kids and be with the people they love. I know there are going to be bad people, but we have plenty of those here in the US too. I wouldn't have to go to Iran to find someone who enjoys hurting others for their own pleasure.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 9:19PM

Angie:

you have no right to decide that for my children. If you are so intent on turning the other cheek, go volunteer to work as a volunteer in Gaza for the UN.

But do nothing that endangers my children. For any reason.

More informed than you| 11.11.11 @ 10:37AM

Did you know its Americas moral duty to police the world? Although people hardly ever ask themselves whether this is true or not, they are quick to respond to propaganda pieces like this, offering their ideas on how this apparently monstrous threat of Iran should be dealt with. Quickly offering the lives and services of our young soldiers, quickly dismissing how broke and spread thin we truly our, they discuss how America can or should use its military and financial power to manipulate the affairs of soverign nations. Its not just a direct insult to the Constitution by which these people are even able to express these views freely, it displays a complete lack of understanding in regard to the American Revolution and foundation of this country, which fought off its own enemies attempting to manipulate the monetary and security affairs by which it operated. Perhaps if the people writing this piece, or those commenting so assertively, if only they understood ideas like liberty, propoganda, fear mongering, and the constitution, I wouldn't be forced to philisophically and intellecually sodomize this page with my ideas.

Angie| 11.11.11 @ 10:47AM

America does not have a moral duty to police the world. Although as individual citizens we are free to use whatever resources we have to support the causes we believe in all over the world.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 4:41PM

To "more informed than you"

What is the purpose of government other than defense of the nation?

You have been informed with untruths.

Please take your ignorance and go "sodomize" some other page. Your words, not mine.

Exactly how have you managed to penetrate this page - or is your USB port all messy now?

DOLT!

Say What| 11.11.11 @ 10:39AM

It is a sad day in this country when we thrust ourselves into these conflicts without even attempting diplomacy.

os| 11.11.11 @ 10:43AM

Or realizing we have a $15 trillion debt.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 10:51AM

Diplomacy is what you do to keep your opponent from seeing what you're really doing...

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:07AM

so what have we been doing for the last several decades? when iran took our embassy hostage, what war was that called? what did carter do?

Brett D| 11.11.11 @ 12:15PM

It might be more productive to understand why they took our embassy hostage. Please review the 1953 US overthrow of Iran.

I highly recommend anyone curious on our history with Iran over the past 60 or so years to watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?f.....WVtpao0KSM

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:42PM

Brett;

Do you really think that in 1979 they were shouting death to the great Satan USA because of the 1953 thing?

I believe the students were driven by Ayatollah Khomeini's desire for the Shah's power, not revenge. Not to suggest that the Arab body politic is one oblivious to the sweet taste of revenge; I sense it is one of their primary motivations, after Islamism.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 10:53AM

Clint Wrote, After Threatening to Kick My Ass (As Usual) & Me Posting My ACTUAL ADDRESS:

"No I Won't Little Gutless Coward Punk.

If You Make Me Defend Myself ,You'll Never Hear The Man Count Ten.
I've Dropped Your Kind Of Trash Talkin' Toughie Girls Inside & Outside The Ring.

Bring It, Cupcake."

Thought so, cyber-toughie. The only "ring" where you kick as is on you XBox 360 in your Sister/Wife's basement. Its almost 11:00. Isn't it time for some romancing the sheep, Cwint?

Jason D| 11.11.11 @ 10:57AM

haha, nerd fight!

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 11:27AM

Con Job's Gonna Hit Tea Party Clint With His Purse.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:31AM

worn out clit will just spread its legs and smother its opponent with the slime that spews out. just ask all it johns! that is after they have their decontamination shower

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 11:41AM

Uh Oh !

More Dirty Talk Old Man Talk From The Armchair Israel Firster.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:54AM

worn out clit,

i was fighting while the best part of you was still dribbling down your mommies backside BOY!

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 12:15PM

You Said You Were Cold War Military.

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 12:18PM

I Ain't Your Boy, Armchair Israel Firster Girl.

Wanna Make Somethin' Of It, Pussy ?

Hmmm Devil Doggie ?

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 12:51PM

He posted his address, as I have posted mine. Ball's in YOUR court, coward.

"Put up or shut up."

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 2:43PM

I Posted Where You Can Find Me At The Valley Forge Tea Party Meetings.

You Got No Balls Israel Firster Neo-Chickenhawk Trash Talker, Con Job.

Ya Gonna Throw Rolls At Me, Cookie?

Hmmmmm Stove Girl ?

Put Up Or Shut Up, Cupcake.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 1:37PM

You been called-out, tough-girl!!!

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 2:36PM

So Bring It Dr.Pussy.

You're Repeatedly Scared To Show Up At Our Tea Party Meeting And Run Your Mouth About Our Tea Party Co-Favorite Dr.Ron Paul.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 3:00PM

You been called-out, tough-girl!!!

And you're NOT a member of VFTPP! I already checked.

We've been over this before, Popey-Boy...

Mike Hawk| 11.13.11 @ 9:27AM

We know he's not and there haven't been any fist fights or assaults there either that have been reported.

We also know he's not a Veteran.

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 11:21AM

Anytime You Wanna Try Me, Trash Talkin' Keyboard Coward Punk, You Can Find Me At The Valley Forge Tea Party Monthly Meetings.

Call Me Out & I'll Be Glad To Go Over To The Putting Green & Prove That You're Nothing But A Trash Talkin' Punk, Who Can't Back Up Your Trash Talk .

Now, Put Or Shut Up, Cupcake.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 11:42AM

YAWN. Your cyber-toughie act has become tiresome. I'm as "afraid" of you as you are of me, apparently. You're a douchebag & a pansy. A Faux "conservative" who's really a neo liberal LIBERTARIAN who's world views are almost EXACTLY like those of the enemy in the White House.

You're a joke, Clint. And everyone here knows it. But, like I said, you ARE the best advertisment AGAINST Ru Paul that anyone could think of. And you prove it every time you hit the "submit" button. We know you like to "submit." You "submit" to Islam, you "submitted" at Penn State football camp & you "submit" every time you get on your knees & fellate your idol, Ru Paul.

"Clint the Dhimmi." Or "Clint the Useful Infidel."

Which one, fellow Am Spec readers?

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 11:52AM

Like I Said, Trash Talkin' Punk, Put Up Or Shut Up.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:55AM

10720 Airview Drive
Tampa, Fl 33625

what time can i expect you clit? please be sure to bring your own bodybag.

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 1:11PM

The Valley Forge Tea Party Meetings.

Anytime, You Wanna Try Me, Rough Puff.

Bring It Pussy Trash Talkin' Punk .

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 1:39PM

Give him your address, tough-girl...NOT the address of a meeting where your buddies will be there, too...

You bin' called-out!!!

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 3:06PM

Dr.Reich's The Liar Coward,Who's Scared To Show Up At Our Valley Forge Tea Party Meetings.

Come & Get Me, Dr.Trash Talk Neo-Chickenhawk.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 3:02PM

Why don't you "put up or shut up" with Teufelhunden?

He told you where he lives! Now go teach him a lesson, tough-girl!

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 3:08PM

Why Don't You Stop Hidin' Behind Truffles Dress, You Phoney Poseur Bastard Dr.Reich ?

Hmmmmmm, Joisey Punk ?

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 3:00PM

LOL!

Wipe the spittle off your screen, tough-girl!

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 3:13PM

Wipe Bibi's Bodily Fluids Off Your Face, Joisey Girl.

martin j smith| 11.11.11 @ 11:01AM

The isolationists, many of whom are America Lasters and are willing to put our nation in danger
are about the same as the Obamabots. In fact they are the same. Just as there no chance of any mutual understanding with them their is also no mutual understanding with with Russia or China.
The notion say that Russia will persue its own interests is correct. But the logic or lack that Russia's interests and ours will not conflict is stupidity--I don't know what kind of education gave people like that that kind of thinking but it is irresponsible at best. The correct logic is that Russia and we have conflicting interests very much as in the the time of the USSof R. ( That is the Cold War ) and the same with China btw.
So to make a short story even shorter. I will not even try to reason with the idiots that are the isolationists but rather advise to work with those who have a more grounded idea of the dangers of this world. Oh yes one more point --there is absolutely no reason to attempt at reasoning with Anti-Semites either.

Jason D| 11.11.11 @ 11:10AM

Wanting to spend money at home instead of wasting borrowed money overseas is not putting America last. This has been the view of conservatives for over a century. It wasn't until Cheney, Wolfowitz and others of the Project for a New American Century infiltrated the Republican Party, that this was ever a conservative view. This is a Wilsonian foreign policy. Wilson, remember that guy who passed the 16th amendment, the guy who dragged us into WWI, the guy conservatives have historically disliked. The progressives took over the Republican party and half the people here are repeating their talking points. The Republican party has failed conservatives.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:33AM

spending money on illegals? foodstamps? regualtuions and unConstitutional gubmint organistaions that destroy the economy?

yep! lets pay for free education for illegals. pay for their medical.

Jason D| 11.11.11 @ 2:07PM

Or taking less money out of the private sector so that our economy doesn't get worse than it already is. When the dollar starts losing value. many things will be cut. Spending money fighting other peoples wars will have to be one of them. When food prices start to rise we will start to see some real chaos. I don't like entitlements. Constitutionally all of it should only be offered at a state level. But we need to look at the defense contractors sucking from the government teat as well. They are no better than welfare recipients.

os| 11.11.11 @ 11:16AM

The radical interventionist, many of whom are America Lasters, are willing to put our nation in danger and are the same as the Hilarybots.

Fixed it for you.

Dimitri Aleksandrovich| 11.11.11 @ 11:21AM

In what way does Russia or China's regional interests threaten the average American? As Americans we are blessed with a large, resource rich mass of land with a friendly (mostly) English speaking neighbor to the North and a Mexican government to the South that pretty much does what Washington wants it too. We have no natural enemies and if we did Russia and China would not be among them. What we have is competitors for resources (oil and natural gas) and regional competitors for political influence over smaller nations such as Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan that have an abundance of those resources and or political influence and/or control over smaller nations that are essential to the transportation of those resources. That has nothing to do with American national interests (because we have an abundance of oil and natural gas as do our neighbors Canada and Mexico) and everything with maintaining this empire of American corporate interests backed by US military might around the world.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:36AM

so you think mexico is friendly? wanna go to the border and see just how friendly they are?

natural resources? you mean all those our gubmint says are offlimits?

why is china the LEADER in REEs? why did silicon valley get passed up as the number one source?

Matthew Quigley| 11.11.11 @ 1:36PM

You, Sir, are correct.

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 11:07AM

Little Clint Cries:

"You Just Threatened To Shoot Me In Public With A Dart Load,Ya Little Keyboard Coward.

Let's See Ya Try It, Keyboard Coward.

I Can Defend Myself Against Both Your Coward Mouth & Your Little Toy Gun, Coward."

What I said was, "bring your manner & we can have drinks. Bring your usual self, & you'll leave feet first with a face full of 12 gague flechettes."

If I were threatening you, I woulda just told you to show up so I could shoot you. Not offer you the choice between drinks & civil discourse or you being a Jew hating asshole guest in my home.

You're too funny, Cwint. What're you? Like 22-23? You're a freaking RIOT, dude!

Jason D| 11.11.11 @ 11:13AM

Con, that's right defend your honor. Don't let this coward get away with this treachery.

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 11:25AM

Yeah, Israel Firster Neo-Chickenhawk Coward, Con Job, What He Said.

Put Up Or Shut Up, Puffy.

Jason D| 11.11.11 @ 11:36AM

Not really sure what either of you accomplish with name calling. It is not a way to win any argument. It is much easier to have people come your way when you can first understand their point of view and then move on to counter the weaker points that they have first.
Name calling just shuts down all intelligent dialogue.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:38AM

worn out clit,

puffy? is that what happens to your lips after your johns are done with you?

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 11:43AM

Clit got rubbed the wrong way.

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 11:56AM

More Fag Talk From The Armchair Israel Firster Fruit Cake.

Say Hi To Dr.Reich Ya Phoney Coward.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 12:00PM

clit,

US Marine Corps
A.G.L.I.C.O.
2nd AAV Bn
4th AAV Bn
8th Marines
Beruit
Kuwait
Iraq

and you?

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 12:48PM

I'm The Guy,Who Just Called Ya The Armchair Israel Firster Fruit Cake.

Wanna Make Somethin' Of It, Devil Pussy ?

Say Hi To Dr.Reich, Coward.

Matthew Quigley| 11.11.11 @ 1:40PM

Thanks, Pard.

USAF
596th Bomb Squadron/2nd Bomb Wing
Desert Storm
OEF
OIF

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 1:41PM

Armchair A-Hole Corps.
Sister's Basement Brigade
Monkey-Spank Division - Company Q

Butthole, Pennsylvania

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 2:32PM

Another Israel Firster Neo-Chickenhawk Poseur Punk Poster Tryin' To Post Under My Name.

You Israel Firsters Goy A Real Bad Habit Of Hiding Behind Others.

The Tea Party Rebellion Steps On The Israel Firster Neo-Chickenhawks.

W.T. Foxtrot| 11.11.11 @ 3:03PM

What's the "Q" for?

Brett D| 11.11.11 @ 12:35PM

I ask that you show respect for a Veteran on this day, Clint, even if there is disagreement or hostility.

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 12:52PM

I Come From A Military Family,Who Fought & Died For Our Country From The Civil War On.

You Don't Get A Free Neo-Chickenhawk Bloviator Pass From My Family & My Buddies.

They Laugh At Rough Puff Bloviators Like Devil Pussy.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 1:43PM

"I Come From A Military Family"

Who doesn't?

And how does that qualify you to be a dill-weed?

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 2:29PM

You Talkin' For Devil Pussy Now, Dr.Pussy.

Wanna Make Somethin' Of It RINO-CINO Dr.Reich ?

You're The RINO-CINO Who Said He Will Vote For The RINO-CINO Frontman,Mittens Romney

We Are Being Set Up By RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges For The Ruling Elites' Frontman Mittens Romney.

These Are The RINO-CINO Flunkie Stooges Who Gave Us The Serial Traitor To Conservatism, John McCain Of McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy,McCain-Lieberman,Gang Of 14, Opposing Bush Tax Cuts Of 2001 & 2003,TARP.

Now They Are Trying To Give Us RomneyCare,TARP, Cynical Flip-Flops On Abortion, Gays, Refuses to Sign Pro-Life Pledge, Illegal Immigrants, "Little Chain Saw Al" At Bain, Crony Capitalism Campaign Money Trail.....

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 3:04PM

Nice ROBO-POST, tough-girl!

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 3:32PM

Phoney Poseur Punk Poster Dr.Reich.

Peter Yankov| 11.13.11 @ 9:18AM

He is is so full of excrement. The clown would't make it past the first day of basictraining, if the military would even except hi. Well, an Obama Corps might.

As he is in the 'Armchair A-Hole Corps' As he said, we know what he thinks of the military.

Peter Ynkov| 11.13.11 @ 9:30AM

He is is so full of excrement. The clown would't make it past the first day of basic training, if the military would even except him. Well, an Obama Corps might.

As he is in the 'Armchair A-Hole Corps' As he said, we know what he thinks of the military.

Occam's Tool| 11.12.11 @ 9:23PM

So do I. So?

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 11:41PM

Tool Job Gets Ready For A Mittens Romney Rally.

http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/.....ap-man.jpg

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 11:45AM

"Yeah, Israel Firster Neo-Chickenhawk Coward, Con Job, What He Said."

This is the funniest thing I've seen Clit post yet! "Uh, YEAH, what HE said!!!"

You're a real piece of work, Clint. And smart, too. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 11:57AM

You're Bibi's Piece Of Ass, Bibi ButtBoy.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 12:01PM

clit,

this from ovomits buttboy? dont you still hold the title at bacha bazi boys hall of shame!

or would that be the floor prize at nambla headquarters!

Clint| 11.11.11 @ 12:30PM

More Old Fag Talk From The Devil Pussy, Truffles.

Kingofthenet| 11.11.11 @ 11:15AM

As far as Iran being an 'Existential' threat to Israel, well so what? We ALL have Existential threats, Russia (and the former Soviet union) has more powerful Hydrogen bombs than we do, China has plenty also.To tell you the truth I think Israel (and US) should worry more about what Pakistan might do if Fanatics get ahold of her arsenal. They Hate India, but the Israel and the USA aren't far down the list.Iran isn't going to do ANYTHING unless backed into a corner.

axbucxdu| 11.11.11 @ 11:28AM

"...Iran isn't going to do ANYTHING unless backed into a corner."

Good one, K. I knew you had it in you. Based on the posts here it looks like we'll be hastening them into that corner.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:45AM

so you saying iran has NEVER said it wants to DESTROY AMERICA?

Kingofthenet| 11.11.11 @ 12:09PM

They have been saying that since '79 They haven't made a move and some low Kiloton Nuke device isn't going to change that.

Matthew Quigley| 11.11.11 @ 1:46PM

The Iranian government has been working on ways to infiltrate a nuclear device into the United States. We tend to focus on missiles and other direct systems, but although they aren't the sharpest tools in the drawer, they aren't complete idiots, either (unlike our "leadership." Screw up in Iran, and you go meet your 72 virgins. Screw up here and you get promoted).

Think "indirect." Think "container ship." Iran would have no problems with sending a container ship with one nuclear weapon into any given American commercial port. Remote detonation, and there goes the best part of a major city. It's a scenario we've wargamed, and it's a hard option to counter.

Food for thought.

Brett D| 11.11.11 @ 12:39PM

Perhaps we shouldn't have overthrown their government in 1953, so that the British could maintain control over their oil.

Perhaps our founding fathers were right when they said "No Entangling Alliances".

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 2:15PM

Brett,

There will be no answer to your question from the likes of Dr. Right etc., as it makes too much sense. The Iranians hate us because of what we did to them, and that is not a pleasant thought for people who think Uncle Sam does no wrong.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 4:49PM

So if your thesis is correct, that the only reason Iran's regime, not its people, hate us is because of a joint operation with the Brits in 1953, what are your plans for countering their apparently insatiable desire for revenge?

Your plan must include something besides Obama bowing and scraping and saying, 'we're not worthy.' That's already been tried and seems to have been found wanting.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 4:50PM

Oh, gee, I guess you did get an answer.

So let's hear your grand plan, kiddies.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 4:59PM

DTOM,
That joint operation with the British installed a dictator who ruled for decades. So it is no small thing that we did to Iran, as the consequences to them went on for years and years. My solution, get our soldiers out of the Middle East, and have them defend the borders of the United States.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:51PM

Don't you know that deploying US soldiers in the US is against the law?

Guess not.

And are you trying to tell us that the people who are still mad about the founding of Israel, (the country that the Jews founded, i dunno, maybe 2800 years ago) will get over that little dictatorship thing because we say, what "Sorry, about the evil dictator thing, it really wasn't very nice. 'Kay?" and then they'll stand down? And let their people live free? Do you dream when you sleep, too?

That doesn't make any sense at all.

Doubt the Israel 2800 years ago thing? Go to any hotel, open a drawer in any room, you'll find a book there. The book was written by about 100 plus people over a thousand years - and it doesn't have any contradictions in it. It details the founding of Israel and most of them have maps, in case you're interested. Have all of your postings here today been without contradictions? I think not.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 6:03PM

DTOM,
I couldn't care less what Iran does with its people. That is their business. I simply suggest that we stay out of their business.
As far as Israel, we should let them defend themselves and not interfere in their business.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.11.11 @ 8:30PM

Brett,
I'm so sorry you are an ignorant ass. Iran HAD NO OIL PRODUCTION until the Brits risked their own money and expertise to drill wells and deliver oil.
The same is true of Saudi and the other OPEC countries of course. They were freaking goat-herders squatting in the dirt and wiping their butts with their left hand.

Hey, at least the Brits introduced toilet paper to the goat f**kers.

Daniel Paul| 11.11.11 @ 11:20AM

I like how those that point out the false pretexts for the Iraq war are called anti-semites and that they are people living in a dream world in this comments section.
I also like how there's a little note below this comment section stating that rude comments will be removed, yet when a reader types out a well thought out response to this article pointing out how it is simply just chock full of the same war propaganda that brought about destruction and death to Iraq, that the simple minded responses calling that person an anti-semite are kept...
So, yeah, this game has been played before... Those that have been paying attention understand a war with Iran is about the worst idea there is right now considering the economic situation in the US as well as the thousands of Americans that have died as a result of the Middle East militarism which has brought nothing but instability to our own region while decreasing the safety of the average American...
These ideas are just insane and stupid. To think Iran could invade and topple the US is the dumbest idea I have ever heard. To think that the US economic system could collapse due to excessive expenditures on military adventures (as well as from pressures from the entitlement system) is a far more likely scenario and that's the one we should be working to avoid...

Jason D| 11.11.11 @ 11:25AM

Well thought out. I think the true conservatives are winning and will win. The Neocons ideas were flawed from the start and their defenders can only resort to ad-hominem attacks and nonsensical logic of everything as a threat. The neocon idea is just about dead.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 4:54PM

Neocon ideas? Oh like a strong defense? An active role in our interests, before, or lately after, they attack here.

I guess these geniuses had not yet reached the age of reason on September 11, 2001.

Exactly where in the Arab world were they protesting the unheralded, unprovoked attack that killed 3,000 innocent people going about their daily business back in 2001. Exactly nowhere, they were dancing in the streets celebrating those murders!

Yeah, real well thought out!

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 5:01PM

DTOM,

Never try and teach a pig to sing...

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:53PM

Boar,

Dude, are you throwing some of my own back at me? Or is that one of your fav's, too?

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 8:24PM

LOL, I didn't know you use it. I was just noting that you keep giving that pig the right pitch, but it just can't grasp the fundamentals of the song.

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:42AM

ohh! war is bad! it never solved anything. just hug your enemies and they will love you in return and let you live in peace. they are just misubnderstood by the American warmachine.

you see! its all OUR FAULT! just like schools telling kids, its not your fault, its societies fault! dont take responsibility! just play the blame game.

Brett D| 11.11.11 @ 12:38PM

It's not so black and white; however, it cannot be disputed that our interventionist foreign policy of the past 50 years is much to blame for what is happening today.

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 4:57PM

I dispute it.

I think the problem is with sissy, coward, liberals like you who have allowed our enemies to become emboldened.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.11.11 @ 8:37PM

Brett,
see above. ...you ignorant ass. IT IS OUR OIL UNDER THEIR SAND!
Had we not imagined it, drilled for it, delivered it, they would still not know what toilet paper is.

See above.

djtoland| 11.12.11 @ 1:15PM

Ken,
If you owned land in Texas, and an oil company told you that there was oil on it, then you leased that land to an oil company to drill for oil, does the oil produced belong to the oil company, or to you? According to your logic, the oil would belong solely to the oil company, since they are the ones who are actually getting the oil out of the ground.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.12.11 @ 4:57PM

djt...
you are a silly ass. The Brits AND we Americans ...FROM DAY ONE...paid not only full royalties to the locals...but we paid them a "depletion allowance" as well....in advance.

Again, you are simply ignorant. I negotiated many of those agreements.

djtoland| 11.12.11 @ 8:04PM

Ken,
I will admit my ignorance to any agreements negotiated by our oil companies with the Saud family back in the ~1930's or whenever they were made.

Do I understand that you are saying I guess that would be Texaco essentially bought all the billions of barrels of oil in all of Saudi Arabia back in the 30's? Holy cow, how much did we pay for those immense reserves?

Whatever amount it was, millions or billions of dollars, if the Saudis had stuck to it, it would rank right up there with the Louisiana Purchase in terms of a bargain.... when we bought a million square miles of the United States for $15 dollars...

djtoland| 11.12.11 @ 8:07PM

Oops, did I meant $15 million dollars for the Louisiana Purchase, which was almost a million square miles of land. Almost felt like Rick Perry for an instant...

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:57PM

Or it could be that the notion of an enemy that actually could hurt the USA is something they've never experienced before.

Another not-so-hot benefit of defeating the Soviet Union without firing a lot of shots in one place, all at once.

Kinda' like making the trip to the moon look so easy. Unless you were on Apollo 1 or Apollo 13, of course.

Nobody ever remembers the bad stuff...

Buck Ofama| 11.11.11 @ 11:23AM

Clint, Con, Clint, Con... I'm so confused. My name is Ovomit and I endorsed this teleprompted message.

gary siebel| 11.11.11 @ 11:29AM

After a prolonged silence in regards to international affairs due to their proven recent incompetence in the matter, Repubs finally have something to harp about in international policy. However, they are likely to get it wrong again -- it's the "Perry" approach: let's eliminate a government agency... hmmm, which one? Maybe a foreign government agency, like Iran?

I knew the knee jerk reaction was coming so I filled the gas tank yesterday. The last time Bolton's nonsense was popular, it drove gas prices sky high. Bolton and Krauthammer were banging the war drum so loud I thought they had economic bets ( like banks betting against their customers) on oil futures. The day that Bush signaled the attack was off, oil prices cracked downward.

The military option is a bad one because the facilities are designed to withstand attack. An attack would lead to a Telluride type situation, only worse. They would just rebuild, but make facilities even harder to reach. Plus, the hardliners would have justification to secure their control of Iran for decades to come. The moderates there would be silenced. Stuxnet and sabotage and other delaying tactics, plus encouragement of the moderates is the way to go. The revolution in Iran that started in 1979 has not yet completed it's course. Not all revolutions are like the American one; sometimes they take decades to complete the cycle.

They said the same thing about the Sov U and the bomb. "Let's take them out," they demanded. But note that the Cold War did not lead to a hot one, contrary to many a hard liner's fervent hopes

Some people just don't know how to play chess. If our hardliners are so desperate to bomb someplace to get back in the foreign policy game, Paki facilities would be more appropriate.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 4:56PM

You worried about high gas prices? Get Obama to announce that we are going to drill in Anwar and offshore in our waters. That dropped the gas price from over $4/gallon to $1.79 in three months, in 2008. Short term memory problems?

martin j smith| 11.11.11 @ 11:33AM

Putting America last is when you do not spend enough on our own national security-stupid. It is one of the most important aspects of government to protest and defend. Dimitri I know your views as is the case of Clint and and Kingof the net too. Predictable responses . You are all America Lasters because you put our interests last in regards to protecting and defending our interests.
And when you ignore the fact that citizens of the US from many other countries support their interests related their former homelands but focus on Israel firsters so you say--you are Anti-semites that is my view and that is the way it will be.When you criticize say Palistinian or Muslim firsters then we can have a conversation. Not until then. Your Isolationism put America at risk at you are what I would call penny wise and pound foolish. That too puts America Last.

os| 11.11.11 @ 11:35AM

Hillarybot!

Jason D| 11.11.11 @ 11:41AM

American Laster, alright we now understand you are so right. It is hard to argue with that logic.
I don't think anyone is arguing about cutting our defense in this country. It seems to me that bringing the troops home to protect our borders would be more defense oriented than putting our troops in hostile countries as cannon fodder for terrorists.

How many troops have we lost in Afghanistan and Iraq?

Teufelhunden| 11.11.11 @ 11:44AM

1. it is better to kill the enemy on thier home gorund than it is to do so on your own home ground.
2. lost? really? in that case, how many were LOST during the war of independance? WWI? WWII? we should have never fought king george or the japs after they attacked us. we should have just continued to be willing SUBJECTS of the crown.

Brett D| 11.11.11 @ 12:46PM

Who is suggesting not countering attacks here? Certainly not Ron Paul. He voted to go into Afghanistan after 9/11, on condition that Congress declare war.

I agree with you that it's better to kill the enemy on their home ground.. but only for just cause. We do not have the right to police the world and proclaim anyone we want as our enemy, so that we can perpetuate a pre-emptive war.

That is unbecoming of America.

axbucxdu| 11.11.11 @ 11:45AM

Economics will make us all "Paulists", whether they like it or not. Their foreign "policy" will no doubt hasten that day.

Margie| 11.14.11 @ 1:50AM

Presume and prejudge somewhere else.
LOL.

martin j smith| 11.11.11 @ 11:43AM

You must mean Hilarybotsky or HillaryJihadsky or perhaps Heil Hillary or maybe you mean Tavarishch
Hillary or maybe you mean BilllyBoyHillary ? Which Hillary do you mean OS ?

os| 11.11.11 @ 12:03PM

Oh you know the liberal Secretary of State that you often parrot.

C Smith| 11.11.11 @ 11:56AM

The "difference between a nuclear Israel and a nuclear Iran"?

“Thou shalt love him as thyself” is the motto Israeli doctors follow without partiality as they treat both the Palestinian terrorist and his victims. However, some have understandable qualms: "I don't mind servicing wounded Palestinian patients because that's what we were taught to do, but it does bother me when the television news reports detail how many Jews were killed in an attack and the Palestinian patients break into cheers."

Michael in Tampa| 11.11.11 @ 12:10PM

We’ve been conditioned by the media and politicians to link America’s security to that of Israel’s. Anyone who speaks the logically about the counterproductive association is scorned an “anti-Semite.” Of what concern is it to any non-Jewish American whether Israel holds its territory or not, or whether Palestinians get their homeland or not? History is rife with tales of nations rising and falling – the strong survive, the weak are absorbed. Our presence in that backward region is a threat to American security. Our constant interference on behalf of Israel and corporate oil interests creates ever-growing numbers of enemies – enemies who rightfully resent our interference, destruction and murder of their kinsmen in the name of…What? Protection of “our greatest allay? What benefit has been derived by the average, non-Jewish American from America’s association with Israel?
So what if Iran gets a nuclear weapon, or ten? Any country has the right to defend itself. Iran’s sovereignty has been undermined for generations by the West, yet, aside from support for those groups that fight against their aggressors, Iran has attacked no one militarily. They have every right to want to build weapons, to defend themselves and to support those who they perceive do them harm. I have a hard time finding any way that Israel acts as a friend to any of its neighbors.
I’m sick and tired of Americans being forced to listen to the propaganda; forced to feel guilty for questioning our foreign policy in the Middle East; forced to give money and our young soldiers’ lives for the support of a country strong enough and wealthy enough to take care of its own damned business.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 4:29PM

Michael,
I agree completely. We have no business being the policeman of the world.

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 4:50PM

great more suicidal retards.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 5:00PM

Boar Hunter,
Great, another idiot who can't put together a logical argument and resorts to name-calling.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:58PM

Which is exactly what you are doing.

Remember, I thought I showed you - logical argument first, then ad hominem attack.

No logic, no attack. Capice!

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 6:12PM

DTOM,
I agreed with Michael's logical post above. Then Boar Hunter calls me a "suicidal retard."
I didn't notice you responding to Boar Hunter about his ad hominem attack....Why is that?

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 7:31PM

For the same reason you believe that the US cannot be the world's policeman.

The "US as global beat cop" argument undervalues just how many places in the world we actually have interests. And it also undervalues how useful it actually is to have one really big gorilla in the world who is not particularly greedy or colonial.

If you have twenty countries each with similar sized military capabilities you are going to have a lot of skirmishes and wars. If you have 1 country with 8 aircraft carrier groups and 19 countries with the equivalent of 1 aircraft carrier split among them, it actually ends up being more peaceful. As long as we don't get greedy.

(Until you get somebody in charge over here who thinks that the military is good for 'righting imaginary past wrongs.')

Since the Soviet Union fell, we basically went into Iraq to get them out of Kuwait.

Then 9/11 happened and we chased into Iraq and Afghanistan to disable Al Qaeda and the Taliban who were helping them.

Obama has gotten us into Libya, without any Congressional oversight. I haven't seen anybody on this site rooting that on.

Yes, we have bases in a lot of countries in the world. But generally we spend money at those bases with the local economy. But we don't try to rule them. (Do we actively partake of S Korean, Japanese, German, Kuwaiti, politics? We generally just hand cash out (sort of like cigarettes were handed out by GI's in 1945) - the primary reason for prior centurys' colonialism was for profits rendered to the colonizing power.

Who on the planet sends us money? Only investors and creditors, they do so willfully and they get something back for it.

This is a unique time in history.

You look at the prior world powers, from Rome to Britain - they all took from their colonies and gave little back. That ain't us and it ain't what we do. We are different, and we are better. And the world is more peaceful because of us.

I'm going to the bar, now. No PWI for this guy.

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 7:57PM

So you're point is the US is simply an innocent victim. We've never pursued our own interests in Iran, while disregarding Iraninan sovereignty. They should love us because we gave them the Shah. Is that how the works in your world?

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 8:22PM

FU, does that sound familiar?

djtoland| 11.11.11 @ 9:22PM

It sounds as familiar as "great more suicidal retards."

Steve| 11.12.11 @ 10:26PM

Michael, Iran has said it wants to destroy Israel. They can do it with nuclear weapons. Is there a reason we should not believe what Iran says?

Who Knows?| 11.11.11 @ 12:10PM

Iran all the way home.

Or, take Iran out back to the woodshed, and spank her.

Lord “Chamberlain” Obama, and his supporters, are the vanguard of the coming of the INSANE wannabe saviors. The thing to understand is that TRICKLE UP really works!

As the American public keeps devolving, both in terms of knowing history and being able to think clearly, or even HALF way logically, over time they throw up---indeed, VOMIT OUT---people who resemble themselves.

Thus, I hate to say it, but the cliché about the inmates running the asylum is HAPPENING, more and more.

And, as another gift from Einstein puts it, doing the same thing and expecting a different result is INSANE.

From a transcendental point of view, whatever appears always has to entail three possibilities—

Begin-continue-end.

Create-sustain-destroy.

Jehovah-Jesus-Satan.

Brahman-Vishnu-Shiva.

Is there any doubt that mankind is straining at the DESTROY bit, as the SUSTAINERS are being overwhelmed by the exponential growth, or CREATION, of suicidal humans?

Yes---Shiva-Satan, the Destroyer-ender, is having her day.

There’s no need to “hope” for “change”—it’s always already happening.

“It is often said that in today’s modern and postmodern world, the forces of darkness are upon us. But I think not; in the Dark and the Deep there are truths that can always heal. It is not the forces of darkness but of shallowness that everywhere threaten the true, and the good, and the beautiful, and that ironically announce themselves as deep and profound. It is an exuberant and fearless shallowness that everywhere is the modern danger, the modern threat, and that everywhere nonetheless calls to us as savior.

We might have lost the Light and the Height; but more frightening, we have lost the Mystery and the Deep, the Emptiness and the Abyss, and lost in a world dedicated to surfaces and shadows, exteriors and shells, whose prophets lovingly exhort us to dive into the shallow end of the pool head first.

‘History’, said Emerson, ‘is an impertinence and an injury if it be anything more than a cheerful apologue or parable of my being and becoming.’ What follows, then, is a cheerful parable of your being and becoming, an apologue of that Emptiness which forever issues forth, unfolding and enfolding, evolving and involving, creating worlds and dissolving them, with each and every breath you take. This is a chronicle of what you have done, a tale of what you have seen, a measure of what we all might yet become.”

Page xi, from the Introduction of “Sex, Ecology, Spirit—the Spirit of Evolution”, by Ken Wilber, 1995

Buck Ofama| 11.11.11 @ 2:49PM

And your point would be _______________.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 4:58PM

Obviously, "Who knows?" is a question that can be easily answered, "Not you."

Pablano| 11.11.11 @ 12:19PM

Keep beating the drums of war you Neocon Douchebag! Apparently our economic destruction is not complete and we should keep at it. A nuclear bomb is not a weapon, it is an incredibly expensive insurance policy, thickly encased in hyperbole. Few can afford to possess them and none can afford to use them. The United States is the only country to ever use a nuclear weapon against an adversary, and when we did it we had a monopoly on the technology, so there was no risk of reprisal. If Iran gets nukes they will not use them because the risks are too great. If they are trying to obtain nukes it is because the feel threatened, and why wouldn't they?

Bydand76| 11.11.11 @ 2:28PM

Ok, well then using your logic
Why hasn't Israel used her nukes against:
Iran
Iraq
Saudia Arabia
Jordan
Egypt
Syria
and all the rest of the Arab/Muslim countries who wish her destruction?

They don't have the matching technology now do they? Yet.......

Progressive idiot.

Think about what you are saying before you post such nonsensical tripe!

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:00PM

Sometimes, he doesn't know what he thinks until he hears himself saying it...

Thom| 11.11.11 @ 9:02PM

"A nuclear bomb is not a weapon....."

You clearly know nothing at all about nuclear bomb technology. Opinions like yours are like arseholes, everybody has one, some more than one...... Fools like you ignore what people that wish to do you harm say they intend to do until it is too late and then blame someone else for your lack of common sense…. 50 million went into graves between 1936 and 1945 because of mindsets like yours. Just two crude nuclear weapons killed 200,000 of that where as it took 2000 B29s carrying 10,000 lb conventional bomb loads and 20,000 crewmen to do the same damage.

Austin W.| 11.11.11 @ 1:25PM

God and the Constitution forbid America from going to war with Iran. America is NOT meant to be the aggressor of the world. How the hell can we be defenders?

Premeditated Defense? Really? You can't defend until THEY take action.

God considered those which wish to DESTROY LIFE and LIBERTY to be BLASPHEMOUS!

AS DOES THE CONSTITUTION!

Buck Ofama| 11.11.11 @ 2:50PM

God and the constitution, you say? Please quote the passage.

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 4:48PM

God ordered the destruction of entire groups of people right down to the children and live stock, what are you talking about?

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 1:45PM

Byland76:

Thank you for your service, sir! May G*d bless & keep you & your brothers safe in your upcoming deployment!

"Rangers lead the way!"

Bydand76| 11.11.11 @ 2:15PM

Thank you Sir!

I really appreciate that!

"ALL The Way"

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 2:01PM

"I know more about history and current events then anyone on this site including the editors. You Dr. Wrong are a dunce on all subjects. I live by the word the truth will set you free. I say to you liar, liar, pants on fire."

His words carry so little weight, if you were to hear them, your head would float away.

He knows so much history, he taught Herodotus everything.

He & Ron Paul know for certain what one hand clapping sounds like.

He is... THE MOST INSIPID MAN IN THE WORLD!

"I don't always engage in ass showing self aggradizement, but when I do, I prefer to do it on Am Spec. STAY STUPID, MY FRIENDS!"

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 2:22PM

Con Chef, damn, I was about to use that commercial, LOL, I damn near spit my lunch out reading that one!

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 3:18PM

Any time, from THIS Navy brat.

I LOVE that commercial for instances like this.

Kingofthenet| 11.11.11 @ 3:21PM

Funny how JUST before a Country gets Nuclear Weapons, the NeoCons go all 'Chicken Little' the day AFTER they demonstrate thier new capability, you never hear a word from them again. Happened with Pakistan, North kKorea etc.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:02PM

Kind of proves how difficult they are to handle once they've got the nukes, huh?

Which is the point that is always being made.

Wake up!

os| 11.11.11 @ 5:39PM

Another Hillarybot joins the discussion.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 6:03PM

os;

Exactly what in the Sam Hill is that supposed to mean? Anything? Or do you just like the word "Hillarybot?"

Just because Hillary has figured out that there's not a lot this administration is going to be able to do with a nuclear North Korea does not mean I am any type of Hillary fan.

You have made an inference on stuff inside your own head. Look around, smell out some facts, then get back to us, FACTS FIRST!

Thanks.

os| 11.11.11 @ 6:23PM

It means you obsessively advocate the same progressive foreign policy as H. Clinton. News for ya: hyper-interventionism ain't conservative. Turn off the talking heads and learn a little bit 'bout the movement you profess to be a member of.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 7:49PM

os,

First define, "hyper-interventionism." Then please explain to me where I have espoused 'hyper-interventionism.' You can't.

Might you be one of those who thinks we should withdraw from all military engagements anywhere on the planet other than within our borders?

Doesn't that give China and Putin a free hand to plunder as much of the world as they wish? Giving them the opportunity to build themselves up, while we scrap our world beating military structure ala FDR in the 1930's. That's when Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, and Tojo all went on militaristic rampages that resulted in WW II. Maybe you heard about that.

The surest way to find yourself in a war is to communicate that you are uninterested in defending yourself. That's the Libertarian approach, ala Ron Paul. It is incredibly perilous and hazardous, especially vis a vis our current borrowing addiction.

It was by a very strong display of military prowess and a very clear intent on increasing that prowess, that we beat the Soviet Union to a pulp and they fell. And there was almost no collateral damage.

So should we shrink our military and encourage the Russians, the Chinese, and the Indians (the real ones, not Columbus's mis-identified ones.) to play nuclear roulette? With us as the pin cushion they ally together to beat? That sounds pretty counter-productive.

Or do we invest a little more in the defense of our country and maybe rebuild our economy and grow past all those other countries's capabilities to overtake us.

If protecting our country and its interests is hyper-interventionism, I say you are in left field, useful idiotwise.

I lost three dollars on Barry Goldwater, where were you? I posted Barry Obama's New Democrat (ya know, the socialist party.) endorsements online in February 2008. Where were you?

Hillarybot? You sir, are a dolt. Unless you come up with some really good stuff on hyper-blah-blah-blah-ism. And you better provide links to real, reasoned web sites.

Fie on you!

Mike L| 11.11.11 @ 3:42PM

Jed come on! Let's not ignore US involvement in Iran over the decades. We instated the Shah, fomented a War between Iran / Iraq. And have been bombing everyone on all sides. And repeatedly threatening them.
To call Iran the big boogeyman, is to ignore OUR actions for the past 50 years.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:03PM

Can't change the past. What do you suggest we do, then? Stick our heads in the sand? With yours?

martin j smith| 11.11.11 @ 3:44PM

The isolationist crowd really must be illiterate and stupid because it is well known that Russia and China have helped Iran both with military and nuclear technology. Russia's ambitions are as big as Russia itself. But of course Isolationists are isolated in their ignoramous bubbble that they forget to mention Russia and China's interests IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD. And of course this also means they are playing chess with US. China supports North Korea another client state like Iran. And, Russia has armed Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. Neither Russia nor China are isolationist in their policies. Both play dangerous games including computer hacking and other cyber warfare. They are involved in espionage here and in other Western nations. I am wondering if these posters of the Isolationist,America Last, Know Nothing crowd are simply stupid or like the NYT reveal only what suits their argument purposefully not mentioning
matters that show the foolishness of the Isolationist argument.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:05PM

mjs;

My guess is that most of them never lived under the fear that accompanied the continued existence of the Soviet Union. I remember "Duck and Cover" drills in grade school. I hope my grand kids never do, but with all this peace love baloney running around, I hope that if they need to, they'll have been trained.

Sort of like a liberal is a conservative who has not been mugged, yet. Ask some of those OWS crowd...

Java McPhearson| 11.11.11 @ 4:23PM

Jed, so you didn't get enough warmongering working for Bush and you are ready for more.

You are advocating a war against Iran based on reports not of Iran having WMDs but on reports of their intent to get WMDs. Where did this lead us before? What was found, how many civilians were lost, how many Troops?
When we will end the "strike first just to be safe" rhetoric ? How safe has it made us?

kenneth hayes| 11.11.11 @ 4:51PM

the us has been trying to start a war with iran for a couple of years. now we supposely have reason for doing that remember iraq? mobile nuke labs, antrax was all a lie and was used as a pretext to start a new war. i will bet that we will be in iran before the year is up!!!

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 5:08PM

Will Obama 'wag the dog?'

Not in a million years. Have no fear, unless of course they manage to sneak a nuke or even conventional weapon in through a port here and then we'll see who Obama decides to blame it on - probably the English.

Steve| 11.11.11 @ 5:02PM

dr Right, Clint, etc
Don't you guys have a life or a job? Every day the same nonsense, trading homosexual taunts, why don't you guys get lost and spare us.

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 6:07PM

Steve,

They actually could be fast friends if they could agree to disagree and step away from the taunting.

But, they would be those kind of friends who throw stuff at each other all day long, but they could be friends. Or not.

You do hafta credit them both with passion and energy. (Not THAT kind of Passion! Jeez! Quit it, willya!)

Margie| 11.11.11 @ 7:53PM

"They actually could be fast friends if they could agree to disagree and step away from the taunting."

Hmm. Taunting, you say?
Interesting.

Steve| 11.12.11 @ 10:22PM

Another intellligent comment by idiot Margie.

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 2:46PM

Stuff it, punk. DTOM knows exactly what I'm talking about.
Buzz off, Troll.

Steve| 11.13.11 @ 7:57PM

What are you talking about moron margie?

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.11.11 @ 8:46PM

Brett,
I'm so sorry you are an ignorant ass. Iran HAD NO OIL PRODUCTION until the Brits risked their own money and expertise to drill wells and deliver oil.
The same is true of Saudi and the other OPEC countries of course. They were freaking goat-herders squatting in the dirt and wiping their butts with their left hand.

Hey, at least the Brits introduced toilet paper to the goat f**kers.

Bydand76| 11.12.11 @ 9:39AM

And tea...

Which they call Chai....or Chai tea.....

Doc| 11.11.11 @ 9:15PM

I am a Ron Paul supporter & honestly I am disgusted by some of the comments my fellow supporters post on these forums. This is why his campaign is getting such a bad name because he is linked to people who completely mis-interpret his ideas and/or intentions. The main point he tries to get across in terms of national security is that we don't need to be spread across the world policing everyone else's problems. That's why we have intelligence services to see what's going on on the ground in countries we have had shaky relations with. No idiot in the world today, yesterday or in the future has the moxy to even try to attack the US and if they did, the people of this country are so heavily armed that they would be repelled in a matter of days. We think the insurgency in Iraq/Afghanistan is terrible? It is...but nothing like what an idiot like Ahmadenijad would face by coming here. As far as attacking Iran goes it is the absolute stupidest thing the US or Israel could do. Read Bob Baer's the Devil We Know regarding Hezbollah, the Iranian military and sleeper cells. Saudi Arabia and Iran's GOVERNMENTS are the biggest devils in the Middle East - the only difference is we see Iran's true colors while Saudi Arabia's is kept from the public eye (see Sleeping with the Devil, also by Bob Baer).

Doc| 11.11.11 @ 9:25PM

Excuse me I forgot to add Israel's GOVERNMENT to that mix. They've regularly been killing Palestinians for years but yet they are perceived as totally innocent.

Richard Baker| 11.11.11 @ 10:04PM

Doc:
Wonder how you'd act if you were surrounded by millions of Moslems who want you dead and keep trying. How'd you like thousands of rockets to land in your hometown every year?
You and all the other idiots who think a nuclear armed Iran would be somehow benign are as crazy as bedbugs. Ahmadinejad and the mullahs are insane, and remember, they WANT a nuclear holocaust to bring back the 3rd Imam who was tortured in 689 while they spout all their Koranic nonsense. Your anti-semitic tripe makes you sound as if CAIR and all the other crazy Molems have been your bosom buddies. Israel will have no choice, since the West is frightened, but to repeat their effort of 1981 against the Iraqi reactor at Osirak. Wonder how you'd look in a beard and turban. Pathetic.

Doc| 11.11.11 @ 10:19PM

And jsut HOW am I an anti-Semite? Because I tell the truth about the BS Israeli government that started tearing down Palestinian homes in the 1980s & then were surprised when they retaliated? That the Palestinians did not attack Israel until they started pushing themselves into the West Bank & Gaza? That one Iranian nuke is a threat when we have thousands of our own? That Russia & China, no matter how anti-sanction, would not stand for Iran actually USING a nuclear weapon in that region? Quit insulting people & actually present an argument based on FACTS and not hate-mongering and hot-headed BS. So, unless you have something to say without insulting me, consider yoru replies ignored.

POST American| 11.11.11 @ 10:11PM

---------------------BOTTOM LINE---------------------

-While lending much huff n' puff to
agenda advancing issues of the moment
--BOLTON has yet to take a sustained,
unflinching forthright stand on the
Globalist RED China sellout and TREASON
OP. -or even the UN.

He hasn't even gone to the source of the
problem with the PRIVATE, Globalist,
corporate EUGENICS borg 'UN'.

The entire mess was funded
and pushed and brought to
be in New York by the ever sinister,
ROT-child go-fer --- Rockefeller front.

WE still basically pay it bills.

BOLTON has never mounted a call for
the FINAL end and expulsion of this
monstrosity---and the prosecution
of the utra rich, TAX FREE Rockefeller
Foundation for TREASON of the very,
very highest order.

-----------------------------------------NEVER. . .

Richard Baker| 11.11.11 @ 10:26PM

Doc:
Your visceral hatred of Israel sorta comes through. As always, your ilk doesn't answer the question but rather engage in the Bash the Jews rhetoric. Again, the "Palestinians" were engaged in terrorist activities against the Israelis long before the 1980s. Ever heard of Black September or the 1950's fedayeen? Probably not. Pathetic.

Doc| 11.11.11 @ 10:32PM

Actually yeah, but Black September was a fringe group of a dozen idiots. The fedayeen were a product of refugees from the Arab-Israeli war and were pissed off that they were kicked out of their homes. Plus, they weren't launching attacks into Israel from Gaza or the West Bank. And for your info I actually have no hatred of Israel, just a general dislike of two-faced governments and their supporters. I wouldn't have to worry about rockets slamming into my home if I didn't throw someone out of it to get it now would I?

Richard Baker| 11.11.11 @ 10:28PM

Doc:
By the way, the word is spelled your, not yoru. Doc of what, Illiteracy?

Doc| 11.11.11 @ 10:32PM

Oh and now you attack typos too. You;re one of those guys that comes on here to look at one or two words and slam typos? Go away, tough guy.

Richard Baker| 11.11.11 @ 10:44PM

Doc:
I'd warrant that you really don't know a thing about the 1950's fedayeen or Black September. Otherwise, you'd know that both groups were quite active in the Middle East. Tell me, why were they called Black September, hmm?

Sean| 11.11.11 @ 11:26PM

Every semi advanced country in the world will have the capability to build nuclear weapons soon. Are we suppose to invade all of them. Handle Iran like we do China. Start trading with them and our Western Culture will soon have the people turning to immoral retards.

Mistral| 11.12.11 @ 12:27AM

Requiescat in Pace. Amen

POST American| 11.12.11 @ 2:02AM

------------------BOTTOM LINE------------------------

As it stands, in this, the undeniablely unfolding
11th hour of the Globalist world TREASON OP,
Bolton remains hopelessly compartmentalized.

He seems unaware of the looming UN surge
toward 'world authority' status, nullifying
what's left of sovereignty worldwide.

He's also been a virtual NO SHOW on the
4 decades underway Globalist RED China
set up, sellout and TREASON OP.

Has he EVER commented on the stated
agenda of making RED China 'model for
the world'? ---or, even more chilling,
'world enforcer'?

This is all ON RECORD and coming about
right before our eyes ---and ALLLLLL
underwritten by the bankrupt American
taxpayer!

-----------WHERE IN HELL IS HE?????????????

martin j smith| 11.12.11 @ 7:57AM

The idea of deploying troops--why that is Barak Hussein Obama--or is he a neocon. But I digress. The lack of logic ---here is an example: US as policeman of the world--I refer you to BHO again.
Of course I digress again. deploying troups, BHO again--but I digress once again. Using un manned drones--o k not actual live human beings but--if youy think that this is fine and dandy and our enemies will say-hooooooozana we love your drones send more then you are really certifiable insane a deserve to be incarcerated to protect us from your stupidity. In case you did not know--people build drones. People get them prepared to launch drones and thus military are responsible for using and sending them and for the killing
they inflict. Let . You and the Left so called Peace Movement are a bowel movement with constipation as far as I am concerned. Take metamucil please. The reality is this You like Clint,Jack from Wi ( proncounced WI ( short i )
or Dimitri Shastakovich Trostkyt,Lenin,Stalin,Bulganin,Bukharin,Molotov
Cocktail --Kingofthe nyet. I would not trust anyone you support for any office except perhaps the one to clean the latrine. Your arguments are so bad and so weak even a cave man can see that .
Actually the reasons I respond is first to get a different oppinion and challenge your and two its fun for me. I enjoy it.

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 10:45AM

" George Will, "Today, we have a very different kind of foreign policy. It’s called Wilsonian. And the premise of the Bush Doctrine is that America must spread democracy, because our national security depends upon it. And America can spread democracy. It knows how. It can engage in national building. This is conservative or not?"

William F. Buckley, " It’s not at all conservative. It’s anything but conservative. It’s not conservative at all, inasmuch as conservatism doesn’t invite unnecessary challenges. It insists on coming to terms with the world as it is …”

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

martin j smith| 11.12.11 @ 12:12PM

clint--with obama we have no foreign policy. what seems one thing one day you get something else. what we have here is a guy who is self serving and that is all. but most important he throws us under the bus--his foreign policy expresses only
about him.

woodrow wilson thought that the world can come together and make peace. he was wrong. i would say the whole concept of the un is proving a failure
as the un is today. there is no way to reconcile the fact that nations do have conflicting goals and ambitions. thus w must be capable of protecting our interests which does include making alliances with nations that value freedom and democracy.
While the UN and the League of Nations are failures isolationism does not work either. Although the Cold War ended the hostilities between Russia,China and the US which have been ignored ( Iran as a client state of those nations and North Korea included ) the dangers that nations present are ever present. And, the
Islamic Radicals are a danger as well. So while getting together to make kumbaya is not possible, hiding under the covers does not work either.

Our foreign polciy is looking for a good leader--I would say it is still looking.

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 12:51PM

Dr.Ron Paul,
" While President Obama’s demand that Israel
make hard concessions in her border conflicts may very well be in her
long-term interest, only Israel can make that determination on her own,
without pressure from the United States or coercion by the United
Nations.

“Unlike this President, I do not believe it is our place to dictate how
Israel runs her affairs. There can only be peace in the region if those
sides work out their differences among one another. We should respect
Israel’s sovereignty and not try to dictate her policy from Washington.

“The President also defended his unconstitutional intervention in Libya,
authorized not by the United States Congress but by the United Nations,
and announced new plans to pressure Syria and force the leader of that
country to step down."

" Nonintervention or non-interventionism is a foreign policy which holds that political rulers should avoid alliances with other nations, but still retain diplomacy, and avoid all wars not related to direct self-defense. This is based on the grounds that a state should not interfere in the internal politics of another state, based upon the principles of state sovereignty and self-determination. A similar phrase is "strategic independence". Historical examples of supporters of non-interventionism are US Presidents George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, who both favored nonintervention in European Wars while maintaining free trade. Other proponents include United States Senator Robert Taft and United States Congressman Ron Paul.

Nonintervention is distinct from isolationism, the latter featuring economic nationalism (protectionism) and restrictive immigration. Proponents of non-interventionism distinguish their polices from isolationism through their advocacy of more open national relations, to include diplomacy and free trade."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

nohussein| 11.12.11 @ 2:37PM

Nuke 'em.

Vet4RonPaul| 11.12.11 @ 2:57PM

Jed Babbin's bio does not indicate that he served in the military and yet, surprise!, he is a neocon that urges for more unjust wars. Neither he nor his family and friends will go in harm's way but he is fine with sending anyone else. What a coward creeper. Only Ron Paul will stand up to these neocons. I'm a military veteran and we all have a moral obligation to stop killing innocent people; theirs and ours.

Peter Yankov| 11.13.11 @ 8:51AM

You are so full of it, you'd lose 150 lbs with a good laxative.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.12.11 @ 3:27PM

(As you may have noted, Ron Paul supporters are nearly as unhinged as he.)

djtoland| 11.12.11 @ 4:08PM

Ken,
I support Ron Paul

May I ask who you support and why?

Richard Wicks | 11.14.11 @ 3:20AM

I bet at first Ken supported Palin, because the media said she was the front runner at one point.

Then I'm certain he changed his allegiance to Bachmann, because the media said she was the front runner at one point.

Then probably onto Perry, because the media said she was the front runner at one point.

Then possibly onto Romney, because the media said she was the front runner at one point.

And next it will be Newt Gingrich, because the media is now promoting him as a front runner.

An informed electorate and all that... We don't have that. We have a media and a bunch of idiots that do what they are told thinking they are deciding for themselves.

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 2:48PM

As you may have noticed, Ken the reprobate Christians still hasn't posted the "PROOF" he has of his false accusation about me.
Where's the proof, scumbag?

martin j smith| 11.12.11 @ 4:48PM

Quoting Ron Paul is no better than quoting anyone.
Countries are not islands unto themselves and that was a lesson Great Britain learned then un -learned and may in time become the end of that nation.
Translation--Pacifism almost led to the end of Great Britain in the 1930s and pacifism now could lead to an actual end to Britain as it becomes an Islamic State. Same for other European nations.
Its the same idea as Climate Change --oh I should say man made Climate Change. Based on false premises and actual lies. Human beings can't make everyone peaceful any more than we can moderate climate or even better get in the way of natural evolution thru the preservation of species that ultimately go extinct.

I do not support our going into Libya and I do not support the Arab Spring,Summer or Fall. I did support the Iraq War ( II ) on the grounds that Hussein defied 17 UN resolutions. But here again this was a good example of the failure of collective security where 17 resolutions are passed with no action--I mean give me a break. No I think what we need to do is not be the "world's policeman" but work with selective nations that favor Democratic Governments including freedom of speech and press, freedom to practice
religion and truly free and fair elections. This would eliminate about one hundred and fifty or more nations currently in the UN. Our goal would be encourage but not impose Democracy. A key aspect would be a definition of our national interest but that would be beyond our borders.

The world is a dangerous place and failure to recognize these dangers that we cannot avoid under any circumstances is folly and would never pass muster of most Americans. These dangers include China,Russia,Islamic Radicalism, and other groups that have the idea of racial,religious or ethnic superiority and the intention of taking over by force other peoples and their territory. Which issues are in our national interest must be debated but there are some which in my view meet the criterea. The question of having the will to follow thru is yet another story.

I do not and never will support Ron Paul

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 11:50PM

Dr.Ron Paul's Foreign Policy Advisor Michael Scheuer, Former CIA Chief of The bin Laden Unit.

"4.) Speak to the American people and tell them to expect to be brutally propagandized by U.S. citizen Israel-Firsters through AIPAC, their ubiquitous media shills, and the men and women they own in the U.S. Congress and federal bureaucracy. Urge Americans to ignore this effort by U.S. Israel-Firsters to get them to send their soldier-children to fight in a religious war in which the U.S. has no genuine national interest at stake, and in which U.S. participation would further bankrupt the country, require the reintroduction of conscription, and put America at war with all of the Muslim world -- Shia and Sunni -- for the foreseeable future."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

POST Amerian| 11.12.11 @ 10:52PM

------------------BOTTOMLESS LINE------------------

And speaking of nuclear threats--

as the FUKISHMA world depop op heads
into its 10th month of media cover up,
again, --WHERE ---WHERE ------WHERE
is BOLTON?

He might take up the figure of GEs Globalist
Jeff I--Melt--down for his lack of concern.

He might point out the dubious aspects
of this latest unprecedented seismic event.

Consider this---

the HAITI quake was on 1/11, and had ear-marks
of a HAARP induced event

the first FUKISHIMA quake was on 3/11
---the second on 4/11

just weeks before the event Washington
'innie' JOHN WHEELER was murdered,
the case, in this CSI saturated age, was
memory holed

around the same time we had those
'strange' mass kils of black birds, and
later fish kills on the Pacific coast

days after the first FUKISHIMA,
Yahoo News reported the most gigantic
ozone hole ever recorded over Japan.

That story also was memory holed.

Putting aside the numerological relations
to 9/11 -----further consider

-that first, unprecedented SE Asian
tsunami in 2005 occurred on
-------MAO TSE TUNG's BIRTHDAY-------

----------------Getting the picture? -----YET?

Then PLEASE, hand BOLTON a clue-------

John II| 11.13.11 @ 12:00AM

Myself, I always prefer to look at the bright side of things and mull over the silver linings. For example, if Iran uses her nuke know-how to smuggle a half dozen you-know-what suitcases into six or eight major cities of the US, there's some chance we'll never hear from "Clint," DOCTOR Ron Paul, or "POST American" ever again. Unless, of course, such oddballs, like myself, dwell in the heart of the American wilderness, safely far from Islamist obsessions.

And now back to "The Strange Love of Martha Ivers" (1946), a classic film noir in which Kirk Douglas, in his screen debut, plays his first and last role as a wimp. After that, it was he-man all the way, a trick he learned from his co-star, the redoubtable Barbara Stanwyck.

Ah, those were the good ol' days, right after World War II, when even wimpy men were men and even glamorous women were men too.

martin j smith| 11.13.11 @ 7:44AM

I have come to the conclusion that Ron Paul = Barak Obama and vis versa. Quoting Ron Paul is the same as quoting Lenin or Mao.
Ron Paul and his supporters vision of foreign policy offer nothing more than insecurity and anxiety because of their unrealistic views. Le tme give one example: Obama ( Paul ) wants to get Russia's backing for something on Iran. Now lets see just exactly what Russia is willing to do if anything of substance.

Clint | 11.13.11 @ 10:15AM

Dr.Ron Paul,
" While President Obama’s demand that Israel
make hard concessions in her border conflicts may very well be in her
long-term interest, only Israel can make that determination on her own,
without pressure from the United States or coercion by the United
Nations.

“Unlike this President, I do not believe it is our place to dictate how
Israel runs her affairs. There can only be peace in the region if those
sides work out their differences among one another. We should respect
Israel’s sovereignty and not try to dictate her policy from Washington.

“The President also defended his unconstitutional intervention in Libya,
authorized not by the United States Congress but by the United Nations,
and announced new plans to pressure Syria and force the leader of that
country to step down.

“Our military is already dangerously extended, and this administration
wants to expand our involvement. When will our bombing in Libya end? Is
President Obama seriously considering military action against Syria? We
are facing $2 trillion dollar deficits, and the American taxpayer cannot
afford any of it.

“Our military’s purpose is to defend our country, not to police the
Middle East."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

John II| 11.13.11 @ 11:26AM

"Our military’s purpose is . . . not to police the
Middle East." --DOCTOR Ron Paul

That can't be right. If we don't police the Middle East, we'll release the beast and wind up with a class of crass Islamist ragheads dropping deep doo-doo on us as we snooze in our beds.

Gee, I never realized that DOCTOR Ron Paul was a poet as well as a genius and, especially, a DOCTOR.

And now back to "Flight 93" (2006), in which is depicted the consequences of replacing serious foreign policy with the droppings of lefties and libertarian poetasters.

John II| 11.13.11 @ 4:48PM

Pardon the grammatical slip. Correction: ". . . in which ARE depicted the consequences . . ."

And now back to "Swiss Miss" (1938), appropriate Sunday fare with one of the better Laurel & Hardy vehicles, in which a couple of American mousetrap salesmen travel to Switzerland on the theory that there will be more mice to trap in a place with lots of cheese. One may watch the flick today merely for the rib-tickling, without concern over the profound political message, whatever that was.

RonRonDoRon| 11.13.11 @ 11:37AM

An aside: it's sad that a discussion about Iranian nuclear ambitions immediately turns into a mud-slinging match about who's antisemitic and who's an idiot. Seems every comment board I look at is taken over by blowhards. Guys - if you insist on sounding like that wild-eyed fellow ranting on the street corner, no one will listen to your points (if you actually have any). If it's just about venting your rage, consider doing that by using your fists on a heavy bag instead of your fingers on a keyboard. (End aside.)

I don't claim to know what the proper response to Iran's nuclear bomb ambitions is, but I pose a question to those who say "Why shouldn't Iran have the bomb when so many other nations have them?":

If everyone in your neighborhood had firearms, why shouldn't the felon down the street have some - why shouldn't the psychotic down the street have some?

John II| 11.13.11 @ 4:51PM

"If everyone in your neighborhood had firearms, why shouldn't the felon down the street have some - why shouldn't the psychotic down the street have some?"

Now THAT's what I call thoughtful mud-slinging, unlike my preferred kind.

Back again to Stan and Ollie.

Clint | 11.13.11 @ 12:15PM

Read George Washington's Farewell Address, Thomas Jefferson's First Inaugural Address, The Old Right.

" George Will, "Today, we have a very different kind of foreign policy. It’s called Wilsonian. And the premise of the Bush Doctrine is that America must spread democracy, because our national security depends upon it. And America can spread democracy. It knows how. It can engage in national building. This is conservative or not?"

William F. Buckley, " It’s not at all conservative. It’s anything but conservative. It’s not conservative at all, inasmuch as conservatism doesn’t invite unnecessary challenges. It insists on coming to terms with the world as it is …”

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Clint | 11.13.11 @ 12:25PM

Do Your Homework.

Dr.Ron Paul has stated, if it is necessary, as President, He would go to Congress and ask for a Declaration of War against Iran.

Gee, Imagine A President Abiding By The Constitution.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

John II| 11.13.11 @ 4:55PM

Whaddaya mean, do my homework? I don't do h0mework. I correct homework.

And in the future I'll thank you to refer to me as DOCTOR John II.

Do my homework. The very idea!

Back again to Stan and Ollie. The gorilla is meeting the duo on the suspension bridge over the gorge, which I take to be a metaphor having something to do with DOCTOR Ron Paul.

Richard Wicks | 11.14.11 @ 3:15AM

Education is in a sad state of affairs in the United States, don't you think?

What's wrong with simply following the Constitution? Can you answer that? What's wrong with actually declaring a war? Why are you against that?

wedding dresses | 11.14.11 @ 3:08AM

If everyone in your neighborhood had firearms, why shouldn't the felon down the street have some - why shouldn't the psychotic down the street have some?

Richard Wicks | 11.14.11 @ 3:14AM

Yes, and we cannot wait for the final proof to come in the form of a mushroom cloud.

The government lies to you, and the media is their enabler.

race_to_the_bottom| 11.14.11 @ 4:28PM

This report has no credibility and is exposed here:

http://www.foreignpolicyjourna.....r-program/

Furthermore, the Wikileaks cables expose IAEA chief Yukiya Amano as a virtual US agent:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl.....-wikileaks

If the US is truly concerned it should urgently promote the proposal to implement the Weapons of Mass Destruction-Free Zone in the Middle East. This has been the longstanding position of the UN for decades. Since all states in the region wish to see the region free of nuclear weapons, this should not be a problem. Here is more information:

armscontrol.org/factsheets/mewmdfz

Furthermore, it should be noted that non-nuclear states agreed to the NPT because of a clause whereby the then-nuclear states pledged to eliminate their nuclear weapons. This has not happened. The US should take the lead in convening a conference SPECIFICALLY to begin the process of complete nuclear disarmament. Instead, the US is modernizing its nuclear weapons stockpile and is cozy with non-NPT Pakistan and India. This is not the way forward.

POST American| 11.15.11 @ 1:03AM

---------------------FINAL WORD----------------------

----------------HUAC/NUREMBERG II---------------

Patriot1776 | 11.15.11 @ 12:41PM

Let’s just roll out the facts, and see what you think.:

http://www.aim.org/guest-colum.....ing-heads/

No evidence STILL. And the beat goes on.

The American Spectator

Loose Canons

Iran on Nuclear Threshold

About the Author

Letter to the Editor View all comments (778) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

POST American| 11.11.11 @ 6:13AM

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 6:49AM

chuck| 11.11.11 @ 7:37AM

Mike W| 11.11.11 @ 9:27AM

Redstateboy| 11.11.11 @ 10:50AM

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 1:40PM

Ronnie| 11.11.11 @ 4:17PM

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 8:07PM

Ret. Marine| 11.12.11 @ 5:26AM

Jack in Wi| 11.12.11 @ 11:25AM

Ret. Marine| 11.14.11 @ 6:26AM

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:26PM

Jack in Wi| 11.12.11 @ 10:55AM

chuck| 11.12.11 @ 4:48PM

Jack in Wi| 11.12.11 @ 10:06PM

chuck| 11.13.11 @ 8:35AM

Margie| 11.12.11 @ 6:28PM

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 9:49PM

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 11:58AM

Jack in Wi| 11.13.11 @ 1:42AM

chuck| 11.13.11 @ 8:38AM

Jack in Wi| 11.13.11 @ 4:04PM

Mike D.| 11.14.11 @ 9:01PM

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 11:56AM

Jack in Wi| 11.13.11 @ 4:16PM

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 6:03PM

TrueBlue| 11.15.11 @ 11:13AM

Daniel Paul| 11.11.11 @ 11:22AM

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 11:25AM

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 11:37AM

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 12:56PM

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 1:43PM

chuck| 11.11.11 @ 8:44PM

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:28PM

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 9:51PM

Margie| 11.13.11 @ 12:02PM

Joe Mama| 11.11.11 @ 1:08PM

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 8:50PM

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:57PM

Mike D.| 11.12.11 @ 8:30AM

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 7:49AM

Pyrometman| 11.11.11 @ 10:38AM

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 10:56AM

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 11:35AM

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 12:03PM

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 12:29PM

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 3:32PM

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 4:04PM

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 5:08PM

Doctor Right| 11.11.11 @ 12:57PM

RCV| 11.11.11 @ 2:33PM

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 2:40PM

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 3:36PM

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 4:13PM

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 5:05PM

Mike D.| 11.11.11 @ 5:48PM

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:58PM

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 9:03AM

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:29PM

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 9:05AM

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.11.11 @ 10:48AM

Redstateboy| 11.11.11 @ 10:54AM

Blackwatch| 11.13.11 @ 1:06PM

Jack in Wi| 11.11.11 @ 3:45PM

chuck| 11.11.11 @ 8:58PM

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:31PM

Ryan| 11.11.11 @ 8:13AM

Joe Mama| 11.11.11 @ 1:11PM

Ryan| 11.11.11 @ 1:43PM

Boar Hunter| 11.11.11 @ 1:47PM

DTOM| 11.11.11 @ 2:57PM

Occam's Tool| 11.11.11 @ 11:32PM

Clint | 11.12.11 @ 9:54PM

Con Chef (NB) | 11.11.11 @ 8:21AM

chuck| 11.11.11 @ 9:05PM