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Calvin Coolidge: His Times Are Our Times
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The Current Crisis
Those Demonstrators in the Park
The Taranto Principle is back in action, as Democrats once again go too far for their own good.
WASHINGTON — It is called the Taranto Principle, and it is now being employed by the Kultursmogists to blanket the country in a preposterosity: namely that the Tea Partyers and the Occupy Wall Street crowd have much in common. So go ahead, loyal Democrats, and take up the Occupiers’ anger. Giving presidential voice to the Occupiers’ complaints will be a sure winner for President Barack Obama in 2012.
Somehow, I think not. According to the Taranto Principle, first identified by the distinguished Wall Street Journal writer James Taranto, the mainstream media concocts false truths that actually encourage Liberal Democrats to extravagance: thus Al Gore hyperventilating over Global Warming, Jean-François Kerry presenting himself as a Vietnam War hero, and Barack Obama awash in red ink and promising more. Operating in accord with the Principle, the Liberal Democrats abandon themselves to a riot of fantasies far removed from the American consensus, and the result is catastrophe for them and much amusement for the rest of us.
Right now all the polluters of the Kultursmog are engaged in spreading the vast delusion that a handful of cranks are at one with the law-abiding, Constitution-loving, Tea Partiers. The cranks are often referred to as members of Krugman’s Army — Krugman being the delusional columnist at the New York Times whom I always read to satisfy my appetite for misplaced indignation and delightful incoherence. Other writers from the Times and its assorted allies throughout the mainstream media have been laboring almost heroically to spread this myth.
Their effort was given comprehensive voice in an amazing front-page effort by the Washington Post on Sunday. There journalist Mark Fisher — he could not have acted alone — wrote: “Although many organizers of the two populist efforts view their counterparts from the other end of the spectrum as misguided or even evil, attitudes among the rank and file of the tea party and Occupy Wall Street are often much more accepting and flexible. They start out with different views about the role of government, but in interviews and online discussions they repeatedly share many of the same frustrations, as well as a classically American passion for fixing the system.” The piece went on for thousands of words. It was a colossal effort at misinformation. Democrats who take it seriously will soon sound like hippies in 1968 and be overwhelmed by the voters in 2012.
The Occupy Wall Street misfits are actually in the minority even along Zuccotti Park, where my agents found them outnumbered by tourists and police. The same is true in Washington, D.C.’s McPherson Square. Yet you need not take my word for it. Consider the polling done by Douglas Schoen, a pollster who served President Bill Clinton and is doubtless still a loyal Democrat. He polled the Zuccotti Park patriots and found “the movement doesn’t represent unemployed America and is not ideologically diverse. Rather, it comprises an unrepresentative segment of the electorate that believes in radical redistribution of the wealth, civil disobedience, and, in some instances, violence.” As for Americans in general, they are not so high on the folks in the park. A USA Today/Gallup poll taken between October 15 and 16 found 22 percent approved of the movement’s goals, 15 percent disapproved, and 63 percent said they did not know enough about the movement to make a judgment.
That does not sound like the Occupiers are making a lot of headway with the average American. But they are making headway with Liberal Democrats. White House adviser David Plouffe says “the protests you’re seeing are the same conversations people are having in living rooms and kitchens across America…. People are frustrated by an economy that does not reward hard work and responsibility, where Wall Street and Main Street don’t seem to play by the same set of rules.” And the brightest president in American history has said, “I think people are frustrated. And the protesters are giving voice to a more broad based frustration about how our financial system works.” Once again the Taranto Principle is vindicated.
About the Author
R. Emmett Tyrrell, Jr. is the founder and editor in chief of The American Spectator. He is the author of The Death of Liberalism, published by Thomas Nelson Inc. His previous books include the New York Times bestseller Boy Clinton: the Political Biography; The Impeachment of William Jefferson Clinton; The Liberal Crack-Up; The Conservative Crack-Up; Public Nuisances; The Future that Doesn’t Work: Social Democracy’s Failure in Britain; Madame Hillary: The Dark Road to the White House; The Clinton Crack-Up; and After the Hangover: The Conservatives’ Road to Recovery.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (142) | Leave a comment
More Articles by R. Emmett Tyrrell, Jr.
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Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 10.27.11 @ 6:24AM
They are nothing but professional moochers who glide through society with the misrepresentation that they wear the ultimate badge of honor amongst liberals, they care about others.
Actually, they only care about others when there's something in it for them. The second part of the equation concerns getting it for free without putting out much effort.
It's probably killing most of them that they actually have to do something, even if they are their own bosses in the act of putting forth the effort to demonstrate.
At some point they will get tired of it and go home and lie to themselves that they actually accomplished something.
Yawn.
CMac| 10.27.11 @ 7:58AM
And they are now ticked off that "professional" homeless are mooching on their free gourmet food.
disdainedconstituent| 10.27.11 @ 10:56AM
OWS filth have no empathy for the homeless. They have no tolerance for diversity. The have established their own caste system and they are the "bankers".
bingogringo| 10.27.11 @ 6:06PM
The occupiers are angry at moochers getting something and not contributing? What a paradox!
Boar Hunter| 10.27.11 @ 12:28PM
Sorry to disagree with you Bill, but I believe you are wrong on several accounts.
"Moochers" beg, these people are demanding you and I give them what "they" consider to be a fair portion of the money and resources, unlike them, we worked for.
Ironically, they clearly demonstrate the perversity of greed is a human condition not limited to those who are "wealthy."
If these filthy vermin were not selfish and greedy, if they truly cared about others as do you and I, they would understand that we traded either our physical labor and/or knowledge as well as our time to receive our pay check, minus the taxes the government confiscates.
We trade the most valuable commodities we possess, our very lives, to support ourselves and/or our families in best manner we are able (which most of the time is food and shelter) and these vermin demand a portion of it because, "its only fair?"
Those selfish, greedy Occupiers of Wall Street, and others like them in the flea and locust class, refuse to give up any of their time or labor. They are protesting the ability to continue breathing and breeding, free of charge and they are now demanding the government confiscate more of other peoples lives out of what they consider fairness?
What would be fair is to demand a kidney or some other viable organ from these oxygen stealing pieces of human offal in exchange for their continued existence. After all the communist chinese who they so greatly admire do it, why shouldn't we?
Ash McGonigal| 10.27.11 @ 7:54PM
Sorry, you're wrong.
The truth of what's being demanded is simply the same opportunity as you had to work hard and make a good life, something we don't have in these days where one of three recent college graduates, stifled by the weight of student debt the likes of which has never been seen of this country, can't even find a full-time job. We see that in the thirty years of my lifetime people who actually work for a living have fallen further and further behind, while those who already had it the best get more and more.
The American Dream has been stolen. Occupy Wall Street wants somebody to be prosecuted for the theft.
Boar Hunter| 10.28.11 @ 12:28AM
For the first time in your life your right, you are sorry. A sorry excuse for a man. McGonigal? Irish? Me too you sorry miscreant. Excuse after excuse. Pull your ass up, quit disrespecting your Irish heritage and try to be a man.
What right do you have to demand anything from me? You have the same opportunities I had. Man up for once in your miserable life. You and all the other whiners on the "Occupy Wall Street" movement can kiss my hairy irish ass. You are fleas and locusts and the governments inaction is shameful.
You demand the same as what I was given? You would die milk toast, I worked, that would kill your lazy ass. No one stole the American Dream, politicians like Obama are trying to give it away to buy the votes of useless vermin like you.
You demand? Only the government that supports you can take from me. You could try and take what I have from me, but you lack the strength or courage. You are a coward in this, as in all things in your life.
conservative bob| 10.28.11 @ 9:40AM
Want some cheese with that whine? I have a son your age; on June first 2009 he started his own business. He owns his own home has 2 amazing children. I have a daughter a couple years older she owns her home and works hard every day. Her education is spread out over a wider period of time as she too worked to pay for her own education. The difference between them and you is they take responsibility for their own lives and make things happen.
Who forced you to incur the debt? Who forced you to stay in school until you are 30? What skills did you acquire for all that debt?
I earned a degree in a double major in 3 years. I had no debt when I graduated and my parents were unable to contribute a dime toward my education. I was married and self sufficient throughout college. I paid for my education the old fashion way. I worked while in school and paid for it. We did not have much then, according to the gov we were very near the poverty line, but we were investing in our own future.
I have never accepted nor asked for a dime of assistance my entire life. I have been in business for myself for all but a few of my working years.
I am sorry to say but either your parents failed to teach or you refused to learn one of life’s most important lessons self reliance and personal responsibility.
Many in your generation have enjoyed the great prosperity that your parents provided and pay no honor to the fact that they worked hard to achieve it. You want to start life with all the same goodies they have without investing the energy, sacrifice, and hard work they had to pay to earn it.
It doesn’t work that way. It never has.
Get up off your ass quit you bitching and take responsibility for your own life. Get a job and earn your way in this world.
jp| 10.28.11 @ 4:37PM
Conservative Bob, I paid my own way through college also. No assistance. I'm gainfully employed. Yet unlike you, I side with the OWS: the finance elite got a slap on the wrist, instead of going to jail. That's what upsets me, and that's the common thread that unifies all those in the Occupation Movement. Make fun or scorn all you want the "fringe" element of the group - but what everyone involved agrees upon is that those responsible in WS pay the penalty. This caricature of "moocher hippie" is such a weak argument, for it bespeaks the degree to which many conservatives here soak up demagoguery pervading their "political education".
conservative bob| 10.29.11 @ 8:46AM
JP Just to be clear I was responding to the whining OWS supporter above. Side with whomever you wish but it looks to me as though the sentiments I am responding to above are wide spread and that this whole charade is in service to the DNC and the Obama reelection effort. If you have a problem with what you describe as the fringe... and the image they are giving to the movement talk to them. I think you will be vastly outnumbered…
carnot| 10.30.11 @ 9:38PM
1) no jail time for wall streeters until jail time is meted out to the politicians who created the circumstances that led to the various financial Ponzi schemes
2) you are a tool of Obama, OWS, etc., if you don't first examine how it is that "higher" education got to be so expensive. hint: it's a back scratching scam.
skip| 10.29.11 @ 12:26PM
"The American Dream has been stolen. Occupy Wall Street wants somebody to be prosecuted for the theft."
Instead of 'prosecuting' 'somebody', generally, why not prosecute those at fault, specifically? You know, the politicians in government who have unconstitutionally interfered with free market capitalism, which is the only economic system in the history of the world that has ever successfully reduced poverty, and that has actually provided the possibility for anyone to achieve the 'American Dream' to begin with?
This would require Occupy Wall Street to have the sufficient intelligence and honesty to be able to determine who is actually at fault for the 'stolen' 'American Dream', much less what makes the 'American Dream' even possible.
Oops.
jp| 10.28.11 @ 3:54PM
I"m not a moocher, gainfully employed, and outraged the WS got a slap on the wrist.
spike59| 10.31.11 @ 2:40PM
then why aren't you in DC, protesting the people responsible? WS did nothing that was not allowed...nay, ENCOURAGED...by Pennsylvania Ave-try protesting at 1600, the home of the politician who's recieved more WS largesse than any pol in US history!
benny havens| 10.27.11 @ 7:00AM
Can we expect anything different from the sons and daughters of the Woodstock generation? They were taught that freedom means free sex, free drugs and free money.
Stilton A. Cheese| 10.27.11 @ 9:35AM
I took some time off from work and went to Woodstock; then I went home and went back to work and have been at it now many a year. My son is in university studying civil engineering and business administration and works 15 hours a week as a gofer for the department head.
And, by the way, the drugs were not free, and neither was the money, and you had to work really hard, and listen to a lot of drivel to get the *free sex* to the point where you had to wonder was it worth it.
carnot| 10.30.11 @ 9:39PM
money for nothin...chicks for free!
martin j smith| 10.27.11 @ 7:51AM
the OWS Crowd are the exact same people who are in their Ant-War Movement When It Suits the Socialist Agenda Purpose( That would be AWMWSSAP ) or something like that.
The MSM are a sign of our degenerated society they are uses pieces of excrement that no more worthy of credibility than a sardine and the sardine is useful food.
But; the OWS crowd are dangerous --they are criminal in waiting some some are to some extent. They could be the core of Obama's Brown Shirts. They must be watched.
I support morally any police or military action against them if they get violent and do not give a wit if any of these fools get killed. And I am, betting it will come to that because the OWS crowd will provoke it and see Oakland.
DTOM| 10.27.11 @ 10:15AM
It's Astroturf!
Obama ordered it through the re-named ACORN, Soros paid for it, SEIU installed it.
And it's not going to survive the light of day or the dark of winter. But it'll be back next spring, louder, wronger, and smellier.
Shamus| 10.27.11 @ 8:05AM
Slackerfest.
Teaghan| 10.27.11 @ 8:10AM
On Facebook last night, liberals were showing close up shots of peoples wounds that were received from Oakland police after they were asked to move along but refused. We are to feel sorry for the poor babes I suppose. What angers me is this is what the sitters in the park want. They want to be arrested, they want to be hit with nightsticks to make "the man" look bad.
I hope all of this sticks to obama and those running for reelection in the senate.
TrueBlue| 10.27.11 @ 3:39PM
The part that's left out is that those "wounds" were gained after attacking the cops, another citizen, or causing damage to property.
Ash McGonigal| 10.27.11 @ 7:55PM
You're speaking of the United States Marine that was shot in the back by a coward, then hit with a flashbang when he was down?
How unpatriotic.
irish19| 10.27.11 @ 9:52PM
There were no flashbangs according to at least one witness. What there were were firecrackers, big ones, being thrown at the cops by the "peaceful" protesters.
Foxfier | 10.29.11 @ 2:06AM
Former Marine.
Hit by his new allies.
How poetic.
Chalkdust| 10.27.11 @ 8:38AM
David Plouffe....."The brightest president in American history has said; Brave corpesman..... I have visited all but two of the 57 states, ect." In point of fact Obama is a not so bright huckster. He thinks he can pull a "flim-flam" on the American public by the government capturing all of the tuition loan program.
Once upon a time a young, potential collage student could go to their local bank and apply for a government-backed student loan, at a modest 4% interest, which had to be paid back in 25 years. Obama has switched the student loan program with a horse turd.
Now a young, potential collage student and his family will have to deal directly with our benevolent government for a 6% loan, after you and your family fill out the required 10,000 government forms. The hook is.... if you fail to pay it off in 20 years it will be forgiven. Good luck with that. The bill also includes a provision that allows the government to give private collection agency, all the information the government collected about you which will help them to hound you until you pay up.
Imagine it was little things like the ; "Stamp Act", "Currency Act", "Sugar Act" and the "Townshend Act" which started the first American revolution. Thank God we have the right to vote today, huh.
Vern Crisler | 10.27.11 @ 8:43AM
While I support everyone's right to vent, these people are offering solutions that would just give us more of the same old Progressive and socialist policies that got us into this recessionary economy. Besides, it should be noted that the First Amendment gives us the right to protest and express our disagreement. It does not give us the right to "occupy" public or private property. These "protestors" should be required to clear out after hours and come back in the morning. Allowing them to camp out on public property is just feeding this ill-kept and unwashed and smelly movement.
thatsitivehadenough| 10.27.11 @ 9:50AM
Agreed. They never should have been allowed to stay overnight even once. Now they've set a precedence for these bums to keep doing it.
Bsg| 10.27.11 @ 5:06PM
The Rule of Law no longer exists in this country (except maybe for Oakland). There are waivers for everything and you can buy a pass with the properly placed political donation.
farmboy| 10.27.11 @ 6:08PM
Frankly I think they shouldn't be using the police with this smelly bunch. Call in the fire dept at different times during the night to give em a good wash down.
irish19| 10.27.11 @ 9:53PM
I agree. I'll be happy to contribute a dozen bars of soap.
Ret. Marine| 10.27.11 @ 8:46AM
Geeesh, someone please tell the media We are not buying what they have to sell. I can make a clear distinction of who is being used and who is calling attention to it, without reading about the fantacies of the so called jour-no-list imput. What has become of the true legacy media, outside of the internet, are they this hard up for news they refuse to call a liar a liar, a thief a thief, a fraud a fraud, or an imposter by the name of barry the fraud he really is? do they not understand there are many, millions of us who think in a diffrent light to the truth, why are they loosing readers like a plague, are they this twisted of the truth that they don't see why hardly anyone outside of the uneducated, willfully, or otherwise, are not even listening to their plea's of unity. Trying to compare the Taxed Enough Party members to this group of aggitators and moochers is like calling out evil in a good way, it just doesn't work that way.
I really pray someone in this crowd does not go the violent and forget what should be the real focus of their intentions, this criminal government, but, I also reconize it is the intended purpose to forment violence to meet their objective, they are no friends to America or our way of life and then to even suggest these two completly different movement represents 99% is a clear sign of them totally loosing it. I could give a damn about their puposed rants are, they have made thier beds, its not time to occupy them and sleep, what most concerns me and most of our friends, family members and neighbors is this one point, why are they formenting a situation where it will cause fellow citizens to shoot on fellow citizens? Yeah I am aware the media is behind the "i won" idiot in charge of these critters, and even though I am none to happy of this allience, I am throughly convinced it is being forced upon us, and all for what, revolution, fundamental transformation of a free Republic into what was it again. Sad people,, just really sad that a Nation of the freest people ever to inhabit this earth are turning on each other, or is it just preceived to be? and then to have the media spin it to the point of it being everyone elses rhetoric that is doing the dasterdly deed, yeah the republican are formenting violence, because so and so would rather see blacks, hanging from tree's, our water ways polluted for profit, tea party can go straight to hell, and on and on it goes, where it ends no one seems to know. I'll let you decide, I all ready know the answer to this question. I am ready for whatever they want to bring with a warning, I once took a pledge, an oath witnessed by God to DEFEND this Constitution against all enemies, foreign or DOMESTIC and I see no distintion between the two. Time to use the existing laws to confront these marxist and their leader, obamas bin ly'n, he is not fullfilling his Oath to Protect and Defend the Constitution when jsut days before he was ellected leader, his remarks say something entirely different and once again the media failes to make him answer for it. He is the gang leader of this criminal ganster gov. deliberately looking the other way for his minions to take the necessary steps to step into the sheet, and they think the media is going to change how many minds in the process, unbelievable to say the least.
pj| 10.27.11 @ 12:22PM
Semper Fi....The media has overplayed their hand: what was a sense of innocence has now turned into a form of self indulgence...so long as it doesn't become a force for domestic upheaval at which time their will be a confronting of political necessities. Look, their demands as well as our current government seem too technically ponderous to carry the weight of the philosophical controversy they propose. Hopefully this will collapse as a result of their own sclerosis and partly because of the pressures from an reinvigorated political right.
Petronius| 10.27.11 @ 9:29AM
Same old same old; panhandling, drug dealing, complaining, bonking, and stinking. When spring arrives next year Fish and Wildlife Service should do a survey of the hard cases that wintered over. in addition to weighing, measuring, tagging, and affixing radio transponders, they should inventory their money, credit cards, drugs, electronic devices, musical instruments, and memberships in lobbying organizations.
Mike Hawk| 10.27.11 @ 9:45AM
The organizers and many of the attendees are the same Rent-a-mob crowd that show up for the G# summits and were found in WIsconsin last Spring. Police officers will tell you, if they have been there, they have seen the same people before at these riots and they are 'Occupying' now. They get paid for it. (Tea Party people have jobs and a life.)
TrueBlue| 10.27.11 @ 3:41PM
Tea Partiers also clean up after themselves.
Mike 3/505| 10.27.11 @ 9:46PM
Andthee TEA Party folks have more US Flags per capita than these other bozos.
Regards,
Mike
Bill| 10.27.11 @ 9:43AM
I admit that living where I live, in a town known for its political conservatism, "radical redistribution of the wealth, civil disobedience, and, in some instances, violence" are not widely-accepted American values. Maybe it's different in New York or San Francisco.
My impression, a rather vague one, is that the mainstream media have reported at times that the Occupy Wherever crowd is representative of the views of the American public. I just find that very difficult to believe.
Can someone who lives in an area not known to be conservative inform me if the OWS kind of thinking is a widespread phenomenon, or is it (as I suspect) limited to a small band of rebels who are not in the mainstream, or if it's a true grass-roots thing with widespread support for redistribution of the wealth and violence to attain that goal?
TrueBlue| 10.27.11 @ 3:43PM
It's limited to high population cities, and generally to the welfare class and/or the kids of rich parents. Sometimes you'll get rich people that are trying to make themselves feel better about all the morally bankrupt acts they participated in in their youth.
WickedDickie--Virginia| 10.27.11 @ 9:57AM
As I pointed out elsewhere on this site, Obama-ayers' ACORN is heavily involved albeit under a new facade: New York Communities for Change. Same old location, same old staff liars and union supported thugs producing and directing the misfits while their allies in the "unbiased" Big Media tout their "grassroots" bonafides and alleged similarity to the Tea Party .
Peter McGrath| 10.27.11 @ 10:08AM
This fall's demonstrations are a beta version of what's to follow. Mark my words: next year, it's going to get ugly, nasty, and violent - and most if not all of the unpleasntness will be coming from the Left.
Mike Hawk| 10.27.11 @ 10:21AM
The Left is planning it and admits it is doing so.
Buck Ofama| 10.27.11 @ 11:44AM
>it's going to get ugly, nasty, and violent -
Eagerly anticipating.
Boar Hunter| 10.27.11 @ 12:32PM
I am looking forward to it as well...Release the hounds!
Peter McGrath| 10.27.11 @ 1:58PM
Fire hoses, rubber bullets, tear gas, pepper spray ...
Mike 3/505| 10.27.11 @ 9:48PM
Cry havoc and let slip the fire hoses!
irish19| 10.27.11 @ 9:58PM
And soap suds. A couple of industrial grade pressure washers should help clean them all up. Preferably first thing on a very cold morning.
conservative bob| 10.27.11 @ 2:23PM
I am of two minds on this. Part of me is so tired of the lefts ever increasing incessant scream in my face over the past several decades about their right to the fruits of my labor. If I disagree I am a racist, bigot, homophobe, ignorant, fill in the blank; I have reached the point where I say ‘bring it!” I am ready to meet head on whatever they want to dish out and then take it to them.
The rational part of me, on the other hand, is extremely fearful of where we are headed. If we go down that road I fear we will lose everything, our society, our republic and our freedom. I think many operate under the illusion that if things go violent it will be a quick ‘whip their asses’ and then all will return to normal. Look anywhere in the world, in history where civil war has broken out and tell me that things return to anything like it was before the issues arose that caused the conflict.
Make no mistake if, as many predict conflict or violence erupts the proper word for it will be civil war.
We must seek as much as possible to avoid going over that cliff, because once over the rim there is no way to predict how hard we will fall. I am not at all saying that we should accede to their demands to avoid conflict. I am saying we should exhaust ever possible means at our disposal within the framework of our established legal and civil order to overcome the progressive left and their views and return our nation to its Constitutional founding.
I really do not think, except for a very small number, this group represents any real danger from a violence perspective. These are not doers we are talking about; hell they are unwilling to work to put food on their table or a roof over their head. Their desire is to skip the work part of fulfilling their wants and needs and stick with the “enjoy and consume” part alone.
Left to their own the useful idiots that make up the bulk of this will wear out their welcome and the police will deal with them or the weather will turn hash and they will go home content in the delusion that the ‘did something”. If the ‘activists and organizers behind them wish to kick it to the next level next year the police will, in large measure, deal with them as well. If they are so foolish as to carry it outside of the public spaces and decide to take their ‘revolution’ violent and move into private areas, the game will change. It is one thing to set in a downtown metropolitan park play drums chant and bitch, it is entirely another to move into fly over county neighborhoods and take from the hard working well armed folks that live there. There, reality will hit them in the forehead at somewhere between 900 and 3000 fps.
If in the end we fall into that nightmare and loose our civil order, then when as the smoke clears and we begin to rebuild we should remember the media and self serving politicians that brought us to this point and extract from them the true measure of their treason.
I hope and pray that all of this talk of violence and conflict is nothing more than the venting of frustration. I pray that the strength of our ideas prevail at the ballot box next year and we begin in earnest to return our nation to a path more consistent with its founding and become again the shining city on the hill the Regan spoke of so eloquently.
TrueBlue| 10.27.11 @ 3:47PM
Advantage to our side though since those types are all anti-gun. Not saying I want it to happen, just pointing that out.
The "only" lasting issue I can see from them starting to actually riot and getting violent is the likelihood of the government to institute martial law and suspend the elections. That's when the real civil war would start, but I think even in their stupor the OWS crowd realizes they can't win if they get violent.
Bill| 10.27.11 @ 10:32AM
I just heard on the news that after one Occupy Oakland demonstrator suffered a serious head injury after being struck by a tear gas canister, the demonstraters left the area they were camping out in.
Given that level of cooperation (or cravenness), I doubt that the republic has much to fear from the rebelliousness of the OWS types in the coming election cycle.
Skippy| 10.27.11 @ 2:28PM
They left today, they return tomm.
There are true bloodless wussie hippies at OWS events, but don't believe their pacifism will last.
There is a violent wing that will riot and destroy when they feel like it.
With any luck, the bodies in the streets will be theirs.
gearjammer| 10.27.11 @ 10:34AM
You smug dopes. Just snearing at their bad grooming and nasty ways will not do it. The CBO has just validated these people with the top 1 per cent analysis. This will resonate. With the majority. You just can't grasp that some people are over paid and most are democrats. Look at media and entertainment. are these really free market business ? Do you not understand that media conglomerates are just one big in bred monopoly offering extravagant to a select few ? Have you not figured out how the cable dollars they collect is an involuntary source of revenue ? You can't pick and choose, if we could less revenue would be there to pay the overpaid. The people are being misled that a bunch of rich republicans are the greedy. And, make it clear just raising taxes is a joke-they will only pay themselves more and then some. The republicans need to grow some balls and introduce a maximum wage bill of one million for those who do not directly employ over 500 people and whose industry is not totally open to free market competition. But, most of all introduce ala carte cable. Watch who screams then. Cable, etc is a hidden tax on over 100 million homes. Promise to trim cable bills to 20 a month and limit the " STARS" to a million year.
conservative bob| 10.27.11 @ 3:36PM
If you turn if off it cost you nothing, if enough turn it off they will not be able to pay what you think is an unfair wage.
The solution is not in passing a maximum wage law but more effectively trying to make all markets totally free and open.
What your neighbor makes has nothing to do with what you have or what you make unless they are stealing from you.
If you do not like what a performer makes do not consume the product.
We should seek to increase competition in every area possible to get the best products at the best prices to all who want to consume them. This is best accomplished by tearing down barriers to entry and costly regulations and creating free and open markets where success is determined by how well you serve your customers and not how well you are able to get the government to carve out protection for your and your business.
Stop with the envy of what others have. This whole tax the rich is a canard anyhow. IF the government takes 99% of Bill gates wealth is it going to improve your life? Will you have a nicer car or a better house or eat steak more often?
The tax system should only be about raising the funds necessary to fund the government. It is a fact that 47% pay no income tax, but we are being told fairness requires the 'rich' should pay a greater share.
Going to your example relating to cable bills, want your cable bill to go down eliminate all of the restrictions at the local state and federal level so that anyone who wants to provide the service over a cable or over the air can do so anyway they choose. Then instead of 1 or 2 companies you could choose between 10 or 100 and instead of choosing between a few set packages you could choose between an unlimited number of choices. Competition brings choice.
gearjammer| 10.27.11 @ 7:10PM
The maximum wage is just a ploy to illustrate what hypocrites democrats are.
allowing free entry is denied by barriers and regulations put in place by congress and other pols. Thus, a select few media conglomerates run the show and make big money bedcause no competition is allowed. I want some cable or telivision but I am angry because in order to get what I want I must pay for what I do not want. I want tv like my supermarket so I can pick and choose what I want. I do not want MSNBC but I pay for it in order to get
FOX. I hate giving SRedstone a dime with his MTV and other crap-but I must-or starve to death. This would lead to a new economic game and lower re3venmues and thus income for the " STARS". The GOP in the 90's was looking into this and quit for some reason. Take Ellen. She makes 45 million with her 2.7 viewers. Who watches Ellen. Last person I saw was when I was visiting a relative in the nursing home. Some poor old comotose dame was sitting in a wheel chair in the lounge area as this great " STAR" was doing whatever she does. That is worth 45 million ? Seriously. Where is the money coming from ? But, conglomerates own it all. A network, cable channells , publishing etc. Only a monopoly industry can pull off this kind of stuff. We need to investigate these bastards and break them up like the robber barons they are. Tell people for 10 a month they can get any 10 channels they want. These overated and overpaid jerks will take a big hit. Chrissy Matthews will have yo work for minimum wage. Oh, and give illegal their share of gigs as well.
Timothy L. Pennell| 10.27.11 @ 10:35AM
We need to hang this SCUM, around the Democrat's necks, like a Millstone. All of the Signs. All of the Jew Bashing. All of the Filth, Drug Use, and the ATTACKS on the COPS.
This is THE BASE of the Democrat Party, and the American People need to be reminded of that.
Obama's CHICKENS are coming HOME, to ROOST.
DRed| 10.27.11 @ 11:03AM
http://www.politico.com/blogs/.....signs.html
Wait-do a few signs show the beliefs of a mass movement or not? I get so confused.
Nick| 10.27.11 @ 2:41PM
It's not a few signs, DRed.
It's most of them.
DRed| 10.27.11 @ 4:43PM
You can prove that, right?
Nick| 10.27.11 @ 5:45PM
Better than you can prove that there were racist signs at T.E.A. Party rallies. Or, that black democrats were called racist names at the Capitol (never happened,) or, that a black democrat was spit upon (also never happened.)
Try watching these videos:
http://michellemalkin.com/2011.....agitators/
http://michellemalkin.com/2011.....-limbaugh/
Nick| 10.27.11 @ 5:50PM
And these, too:
http://michellemalkin.com/2011.....f-the-day/
http://michellemalkin.com/
I doubt that you will, because liberals don't like to learn the truth. You just like to keep your heads buried in the sand.
Watch for the riots this weekend, folks.
(Hat Tip: Michelle Malkin)
DRed| 10.27.11 @ 6:11PM
I thought it was all the signs? Look-there are tons of idiots at these protests. Some things never change.
http://www.george-orwell.org/T.....er/10.html
Are you happy that your tax money went to bail out a bunch of bankers who took it and paid themselves huge bonuses?
skip| 10.27.11 @ 6:51PM
Liberal translation:
Thanks, Nick, for the reason and experience based on intelligence and honesty, yet again, for the umpteenth time. But never mind that, let us focus instead on even more of my emotional prattle based on completely ignoring reality, yet again, for the umpteenth time. That is, if you dare.
Nick| 10.27.11 @ 7:16PM
Excellent translation, Skip.
Take care.
Nick| 10.27.11 @ 7:15PM
DRed,
"I thought it was all the signs?"
Did you see the signs in those videos? Oh, no, you would have had to watched them, to see the signs. I found those links in two minutes. Imagine if I actually searched for some, huh?
"Look-there are tons of idiots at these protests."
At these commie occupy protests, yes, there are. At T.E.A. Party rallies, no, there are not.
"Are you happy that your tax money went to bail out a bunch of bankers who took it and paid themselves huge bonuses?"
No, I'm not. But, it was candidate O'Bama who was the biggest cheerleader for TARP. It was President Downgrade who forced banks to take TARP money, when they didn't want to, in 2009.
You were saying?
DRed| 10.27.11 @ 8:03PM
I watched the Rush video. Here are the signs I saw. "Middle Class and sinking fast". "Mad as hell". "War pigs". Your other three videos contained one sign. I don't think that maoist is a particularly serious (or even sane) person, but he's probably happy he got on youtube. I'm not sure what you think you've just proved, other than that watching Michelle Malkin videos is a waste of my time.
Here, you can waste your time on this if you'd like. Let me know if you think you see any idiots. You'll hear tea people complaining about the bailout, wanting to expand medicare and blaming 9/11 on abortion and that Barak Obama is in the bible and it means anti-christ.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y
Nick| 10.27.11 @ 11:33PM
Wrong, DRed.
The maoist is representative of ALL the stinking, dirty, hippie protesters. When the T.E.A. Party people held rallies, they left the site cleaner than when they got there. Your lefty buddies defecate on police cars.
I can't wait for them to riot, yet again, so that law enforcement can use their tear-gas and billy-clubs. Those youtube videos will be hilarious!
(T.E.A. Partiers never rioted, by the way.)
T.E.A. Party Protesters = Decent Americans
Dirty, commie, hippie protesters= Anti-American losers
DRed| 10.28.11 @ 12:39AM
Okay, so by your logic the champ with the 'congress=slaveowners, taxpayer=niggars' is representative of the racist morons in the tea party. Right? Nice to see decent, peace loving Christians like yourself hoping a bunch of their fellow American get beaten by the police. You're a credit to your cause, Nick. Jackass.
DRed| 10.28.11 @ 12:39AM
I should have just conceded to your logic. You wrote all in bold and in caps! Now that's persuasive.
Nick| 10.28.11 @ 12:57AM
DRed,
Everybody knows that guy was either a LaRouchite, or a stinking lefty, trying to make the T.E.A Partiers look bad.
And, yes, I love watching law and order being restored.
I wish somebody would put out a DVD, like a blooper reel, of the Chicago police expelling all those dirty hippies from the democrat convention, in 1968. It would sell like hotcakes!
I would watch it over and over and over...
DRed| 10.28.11 @ 1:13AM
You should get your lotion out and watch the hot video of that vet getting his skull fractured in Oakland yesterday. Sweet dreams Nick. Tomorrow you can explain your logical inconsistencies to me.
Nick| 10.28.11 @ 12:36PM
DRed,
Do you have a link to that video? I would really appreciate it!
(I'm an Operation Desert Storm vet, by the way. So, I can enjoy this video just as much as the others. Especially, if this vet is disturbing the peace and won't follow orders.)
"Do you smell that? That smell? Nothing in world smells like that, son.
I love the smell of beaten hippies in the morning. It smells like....victory." - Col. Nick-gore
DRed| 10.28.11 @ 2:37PM
Ask and it shall be given you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....._embedded#!
By the way, did you watch the Tea Party video I sent you last night? See any idiots?
Nick| 10.28.11 @ 3:34PM
DRed,
That was great! Do you have any more links like that? The best part was when the flash-bang went off. That's probably the fastest those lazy hippies have moved in years!
I watched about half of that T.E.A. Party video, I'll try to get to the rest of it later. I didn't see any idiots, though.
Are you the nerd-boy doing the interviewing?
DRed| 10.28.11 @ 4:14PM
Yes Nick, you've found me out. Don't tell anyone, though. Afterwards I went to George's house and we drank champagne and ate caviar and laughed at the peons out protesting. Good times.
Objectively (I know, it's difficult for you) you don't think blaming 9/11 on abortion is kinda idiotic? Or claiming Barak Obama's name is written in the bible (where exactly is unknown) and that he's the anti-christ? So-if that was idiotic, I'd be justified in claiming you and all the rest of the tea party are idiots, no?
Nick| 10.28.11 @ 5:21PM
DRed,
If you have time to gorge yourself on caviar, then you have time to link more videos of dirty, law-breaking hippies getting tear-gassed and beaten, no?
"Objectively (I know, it's difficult for you) you don't think blaming 9/11 on abortion is kinda idiotic?"
This is a deep theological question that is obviously way over your head, and, cannot be explained on a sign. But, I know what this person means by it, and, it's not idiotic.
"Or claiming Barak Obama's name is written in the bible (where exactly is unknown) and that he's the anti-christ?"
I'm sure President Downgrade's name is in the Bible, as is mine and your's, using that Bible-code software. I don't buy into this code, myself, but, again, not idiotic.
And, I think that O'Bama is an anti-Christ (there is no one anti-Christ, a la Damien Thorn,) given his desire to let babies, who, by some miracle survive an abortion, gasp for life, until they die in a garbage can. So, again, not idiotic.
Do you have any more examples?
DRed| 10.28.11 @ 6:13PM
Oh, his name is written in code in the bible as are (presumably) thousands of other names. Well there's nothing idiotic about reading significance into that. Claiming the problem with Obamacare is that there won't be enough doctors and the solution to covering the uninsured with a different plan (which would still have the same doctor problem) is idiotic. Saying you're not supporting Joe Wilson for president while holding a sign reading 'Joe Wilson For President' is idiotic. Calling an unarmed volunteer force an armed militia like the brownshirts is idiotic. Saying fascism is the same thing as socialism is idiotic. Rambling incoherently about czars as if Obama was the first person to appoint one is idiotic. Believing Obama's czars will be given land and power over the government is beyond idiotic. And to be fair and balanced, smugly claiming that Ronald Reagan appointed the first czar is also idiotic. I believe it was actually Nixon. (in the modern era) But it was really funny to see the look on those racists faces when that nerd told them that.
Nick| 10.28.11 @ 6:22PM
And supporting the killing of unborn babies (fetus in Latin), or, letting them die in garbage cans, is evil.
Don't you have any more videos?
DRed| 10.28.11 @ 6:31PM
Regretfully Nick, I'm off to eat some delicious steak. Enjoy your weekend.
Nick| 10.28.11 @ 6:39PM
Alas, it is Friday, and U.S. Catholics are required to abstain from all meat flesh. (Unless, they do some other act of penance.)
So, I will be having soup. I haven't decided which kind yet, but, it will be free of meat so that I might deny myself this simple pleasure.
Enjoy your steak, and, also your weekend.
skip| 10.28.11 @ 12:54PM
"A liberal is a person who pretends to a lofty rationality as a kind of veneer to cover fiercely resentful passions, which leak out constantly in the form of crazed projections revelatory of ignorance, arrogance, and a certain dogged stupidity that encompasses an odd fascination with violence. In public policy, this aspect of liberalness translates into the morally and intellectually bankrupt habit of doing the same failed thing again and again and again.
In short, as a dog returns to his vomit, so the liberal returns to his folly.
(cf. Proverbs 26:11)"
(John II 9.3.11 @ 2:09PM)
Once again the magnificent John II is proven correct. Pretending outrage at individuals who are held personally accountable while projecting that any who would observe this without the pretended outrage as sexually deviant is beyond stupid. These same individuals again inevitably behaving the same way again that will inevitably lead again to the restoration of law and order the same way again as has been done for decades is beyond stupid.
Dirty hippies specifically are intellectually dishonest, ignore reality, and base their beliefs strictly on emotion to the exclusion of any and all reason and experience like the liberals they are; it is a wonder that generally they are so musically gifted.
"Four dead in O-hi-o"
What a DRedful glutton for proverbial folly. Enjoy your meal. Again.
DRed| 10.28.11 @ 2:38PM
You really should have stopped at the Don Juan 2.0 quote. He at least knows how to write using coherent sentences.
skip| 10.28.11 @ 4:38PM
A sentence that is emotional prattle, that unintelligently and dishonestly defies reality by stating as 'inaccurate' that the top 1% pay 40% of income taxes, when in fact the top 1% pay 40% of income taxes, is coherent?
A sentence that is emotional prattle, that unintelligently and dishonestly defies reality by stating as 'completely unsupported by facts' that the Community Reinvestment Act had any real role in the mortgage crisis, when in fact the Community Reinvestment Act is the cause of the mortgage crisis and any and all corresponding effects, is coherent?
A sentence that is emotional prattle, that unintelligently and dishonestly defies reality by stating as known that 'all professional historians' consider fascists to be right wing, when in fact all fascists are known to be left wing, is coherent?
You are an idiot. A DRedful idiot. And a glutton for proverbial folly. Enjoy your meal, consisting of the vomit of your own making. Again.
DRed| 10.28.11 @ 4:54PM
Like I said, it's much better when you just quote people who write intelligibly. Have a good weekend, Skip.
skip| 10.28.11 @ 6:44PM
What your emotional prattle has revealed, yet again, is that you have willfully ignored, yet again, that reason and experience, yet again, has exposed, yet again, that three recent comments you have posted, yet again, are lacking any intelligence and honesty, yet again.
I hope you will change this behavior that is remarkably similar to a dog that returns to his vomit.
Peace and joy, not just this weekend but always, is much more likely based on reason and experience rather than on just emotional prattle.
May you experience so much peace and joy, always, that it simply defies reason.
skip| 10.27.11 @ 3:10PM
"I get so confused."
DRed 10.27.11 @ 11:03AM
You certainly do.
"Here's an inaccurate part. Mr. Ferrara states that the top 1% of income earners paid 40% of federal income taxes in 2007. He uses that to show how unfairly taxed the top 1% of earners are." [per taxfoundation.org: the top 1% of income earners paid 40.42% of federal income taxes which was more than the bottom 95%]
(DRed 8.10.11 @ 11:46AM)
"Claiming the CRA [Community Reinvestment Act] had any real role in the mortgage crisis is completely unsupported by facts."
(DRed 10.18.11 @ 10:47AM)
"If you studied history written by, you know, professional historians (instead of an openly biased ideologue), you'd find that all of them consider the fascists to be right wing."
(DRed 10.26.11 @ 3:17PM)
Emotional prattle devoid of reason and experience, consistently, over and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.
You are an idiot.
DRed| 10.27.11 @ 3:27PM
Why Skip, I didn't think you had it in you to cite facts.
skip| 10.27.11 @ 3:46PM
More emotional prattle. What a surprise.
Boar Hunter| 10.27.11 @ 12:36PM
You could have stopped after your first six words.
Citizen Jerry| 10.27.11 @ 10:35AM
Let's see if I got this right. David Poofter said "People are frustrated by an economy that does not reward hard work and responsibility."
He's right. Hard work and responsibility is demonized by this regime. We're called "rich" and "greedy" because we don't want to give all we've earned to the government for them to redistribute to slackers and professional malcontents. So they take it from us anyway. What a country!
k962| 10.27.11 @ 10:51AM
Corporations such as GE seem to go without notice. GE ships jobs over seas, pays no taxes, and CEO Jeffrey Immelt who chairs Obama's "Jobs Commission" gets no mention by the protestors. Hmm I wonder why?
martin j smith| 10.27.11 @ 11:23AM
You know the OWS gand is reminding me in part of a bunch of kids who are picketing their parents for not increasing their allowance. But, on a far more dangerous and sinister level. That is the intent is civil unrest and they are sponsored by ( among others ) Obama,the MSM, big Unions and...
and here is the real kicker: Wall Street itself. yes you heard me Wall Street itself.
So, I do not cry for the big money folks who ear six figures or more --because they on WS are helping to prop up this Socialist goon Obama and meanwhile we bailed out the Banks and WS as well. So I say to hell with them. No more bailouts for them let those who go under go.
But as the OWS--sweep them clean with Lystereen.
TrueBlue| 10.27.11 @ 4:44PM
Exactly so. There is no such thing as "too big to fail" in a capitalist society. If a company makes bad decisions and goes under, someone, or several someones, will pick up the areas that business provided a service to, if there are actually customers for the product! As a business owner you take risks, some decisions are riskier than others, some will set you back, some will make you a fortune, and some will bankrupt you. That is the risk you take. Expecting the government to bail out a business is just as assinine as these fools in the Occupy crowds expecting the government to redistribute the wealth of those who earned their money through hard work.
You work for your livelihood. The harder you work, the more you're rewarded. It's government regulation that keeps people poorer and prevents new business. The same rules that "force" corporations to do add this or that safety device to a car prevent any new competition because your average citizen can't afford to build 6-12 cars with their new idea in order to pass all the government tests to allow their sale. Those regulations also increase the cost of the vehicle, which gets passed onto the consumer. Those same rules add to the weight of the car, which makes it harder and harder for companies to meet the new MPG regulations the government set forth... convenient that. I'll give the environmental lobbyists credit for that one, they thought WAY long term to get that through in order to ruin car companies.
Al Adab| 10.27.11 @ 11:41AM
The sad irony is that while OWS agrees with the Tea Party that the bailouts were wrong, their answer is to get handouts of their own. What they fail to realize is that the society they envision would put them on a wall.
This is only a run-up to next summer and attempts to disrupt the conventions. The riots that will ensue will be all too reminiscent of those in '68 and '72 at the Dem and GOP conventions.
Appleby| 10.27.11 @ 1:20PM
Their real whine is not that the bailouts happened, but that the wrong people got the money.
Buck Ofama| 10.27.11 @ 11:45AM
Why are so few destitute Hollywood actors protesting?
Bill| 10.27.11 @ 12:14PM
Moreover, where the devil are the WRITERS? Now, they're really broke.
Who Knows?| 10.27.11 @ 12:40PM
“If it bleeds, it leads.”
That’s ALL you need to keep in mind, since our putative masters, the MSM, must find SOMETHING to fill their airwaves with.
What is “the” news, anyway?
The Golden Rule---who has the gold, rules.
Mao---power comes from the barrel of a gun.
“The” news? Who has the camera, microphone and newsprint RULES!
However, with the spreading of the “wealth” via the worldwide web, we are witnessing the growth of a plethora of ways for many millions of INDIVIDUALS to own and USE the old technologies and democratize “the” news.
The “news” cat is already out of the bag, folks.
In the future, more and more slow learners, and other people who are too busy living their own lives, will come into contact with this “new” news reality, so it’s going to get a lot harder to fool so many people enough of the time to keep a “hard on” about such things a “Occupy Wall Street”.
Look---people are truly Narcissus in drag. So, there will ALWAYS ALREADY be those on the extreme fringe who desire to be outstanding in their self-preening field.
Bread and circuses---yes, the OWS crowd and such basically exist for the participants as a way to show THEMSELVES off, and for the audience as enlightening entertainment, meant to wake them---US---up!
Self-responsibility is ALWAYS ALREADY the demand!
Live as if death is coming in the next ten minutes, and remember to return to what you were BEFORE your mother and father were born---but, enjoy the entertaining laughs provided by the others appearing in “your” dream, anyway.
Read “The Atman Project” by Ken Wilber. Life is constantly all about---transcendence. Growth and transcendence. Forever.
race_to_the_bottom| 10.27.11 @ 1:16PM
I can understand why Mr. Tyrrell would lie to the general population, but why he would lie to Spectator readers is beyond me. Spectator readers need accurate information to arm themselves to do battle with the devil, even if that information does not meet their preconceived opinions.
Mr. Tyrrell reports that "A USA Today/Gallup poll taken between October 15 and 16 found 22 percent approved of the movement's goals, 15 percent disapproved, and 63 percent said they did not know enough about the movement to make a judgment." This is indeed true. But then he concludes, "That does not sound like the Occupiers are making a lot of headway with the average American"
Mr. Tyrrell knows has to know that such a conclusion doesn't follow from the results of the poll. Suppose you ask 100 people how they like Rome. 63 say they have never been to Rome and can't say. 22 said they loved Rome and 15 said they hated it. Therefore, we conclude that only 22% of the people like Rome. You see?
The real picture is as follows. 22% approve of the goals of OWS; 15% disapprove. That's 37% of the people who know enough to have an opinion. Now, of those who know enough to have an opinion, 59% support the goals of OWS. This gives a much truer picture of actual public opinion.
But his poll is 10 days old. What about later polls which Tyrrell should have had access to.Well, CBS News/New York Times Poll conducted October 19-24 found the following: 43% approve, 27% disapprove, and 30% no opinion, or hadn't heard. I'm not sure which. This means the no opinion crowd has been cut in half and the 60/40 approve/disapprove ration still holds.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-50.....ll-street/
Also, huge majorities of New Yorkers agree, including a majority of NY Republicans!
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1318.xml?ReleaseID=166
So what do you all think of your icon, Mr R. Emmett Tyrrell now; exposed as the lying fraud he is. Incidentally, you can always spot a pretentious blowhard when they insist on using that initial instead of their first name.
Vern Crisler | 10.27.11 @ 7:19PM
By limiting your statistics to a small group, you can certainly get good numbers.
race_to_the_bottom| 10.27.11 @ 10:50PM
Are you unaware of the science of polling?
John Armstrong| 10.27.11 @ 1:42PM
How come you didn't get your buddy Patrick Howley to write such a well-informed piece?
j.p.| 10.27.11 @ 1:42PM
Mr. Tyrell, I ask this question with complete sincerity: it isn't good for the people to rail against corporate malfeasance? While disagreement is certainly warranted over the means to which this is done, surely you do not condone what Wall Street has done to shipwreck our economy...
conservative bob| 10.27.11 @ 2:41PM
JP The shipwreck was caused by the government, politicians picking winners and losers and buying votes with other people’s money... I am fine with charging anyone who broke the law (think friends of Angelo) but the only way we will truly solve this mess is if the politicians who facilitated it are held to account. It is not enough that they be removed from office they must face criminal prosecution and if found guilty pay their due.
Who do you hold accountable for ‘too big to fail’ the banks that were forced at gun point to accept the tarp funds or the politicians that created the CRA that forced them to abandon established principles of credit risk in service of social engineering that is the foundation of the mess?
DRed| 10.27.11 @ 3:33PM
You think the banks were forced to accept TARP money? Oh wow.
conservative bob| 10.27.11 @ 3:48PM
I know it for a fact.
To be clear not all banks were forced but in the beginning some of the majors were forced.
NO comment on the more substantive point of being forced to abandon established credit risk principles in favor of social engineering? Hmmm
DRed| 10.27.11 @ 4:33PM
Ah. The banks that weren't insolvent? Well Bob, I encourage you to come to NY and get down to wall street before it gets too cold.
As for the too big to fail argument, there's plenty of blame to go around. That's the real problem. Wall street firms have their hooks firmly into both parties, and we all wind up footing the bill. Clinton never should have signed Graham-Leach-Bailey, for instance, but it also passed with overwhelming Republican support.
The CRA doesn't apply to investment banks. For arguments sake, though, let's pretend that the mortgage crisis was caused by depository banks being forced by government to give mortgages to poor people who couldn't afford to pay them. It doesn't force investment banks to massively and irresponsibly leverage their assets to buy mortgage backed securities. It doesn't force them to collude with ratings agencies to overvalue those securities.
conservative bob| 10.27.11 @ 5:06PM
CRA created the driver... home loans to people who could not pay.... Fanny and Freddy iced the cake by the implication that they would back the loans.
Let’s come at this from another direction absent the CRA and the government’s push to provide home loans to people who had clearly demonstrated poor credit history and absent compounding the mistake by Freddie and Fanny implicitly guaranteeing the bad credit risk loans what condition would you think our financial institutions, housing industry and economy would be in today?
I am uncertain as to your assertion that a majority of Republicans favored it. I suspect it was just enough RINOs to pass it but I could be wrong. Regardless of who voted for it the bad policy caused the disaster. Everyone who was involved should be held to account. I make no moral equivalence. I am conservative first and Republican a long second. Government meddling is routinely counterproductive and frequently disastrous. So that we are clear I want all big government politicians retired regardless of party affiliation. It is too big too intrusive and serves the political class and their cronies at the expense of the population and posterity.
jp| 10.27.11 @ 9:10PM
To claim that the finance sector had NO role in the 2008 meltdown is to look askance at a smoking gun. Regardless of one's ideological stripe, you cannot claim Wall Street were completely innocent. Why was TARP seen as necessary in the first place? Why does your model of causality begin with the effect, not the cause?
conservative bob| 10.28.11 @ 8:16AM
No where did I say that WS is blameless. CRA is effect???? Really it preceeds the crash by over a decade yet it is effect??? Are you saying that George W Bush CAUSED Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton to be elected?
My point is that Governemt set in motion behaviors that blew up the economic system. more accurately liberal Democrats aided by a few big government Republicans mae this happen. WS took the rules created and ran with them. Cause and Effect.
jp| 10.28.11 @ 4:13PM
You confuse correlation with causation. Even if it was true that Congress "forced" banks to loan to underprivileged applicants (you talk about this as if it was like "forced busing" or "forced desegregation"), this simply denotes the 'conditions of possibility' for malfeasance to occur, not actual malfeasance itself. The true culprit is the finance sector and their innovations in the form of CDOs , the actual mortgage-backed securities used for speculation on Wall Street...
conservative bob| 10.29.11 @ 9:12AM
JP federally chartered lending institutions were forced at the peril of the loss of their federal charter to make certain a government mandated portion of their portfolio were in these seriously flawed mortgage loan. OTS and other regulatory agencies pushed this on lending institutions. They were forced to lend the assets of their investors and customers in a manner inconsistent with their established credit risk policies.
This created large numbers of extremely high risk under performing loans. If these loans had never been made then there would have been nothing to blow up. If you light a stick of dynamite and give it to a bunch of school kids to play with it is extremely twisted to blame them when it blows up. This is not correlation it is cause. Without the nitroglycerin dynamite is inert.
jp| 10.29.11 @ 1:05PM
Well, we are talking about history, not chemistry. Hence, such structural conditions you describe, when discussing historical causation, are epiphenomenal - what is paramount is the "agency" of persons to make decisions whether or not to commit malfeasance. Sure, a forest fire could not happen without the prior condition of oxygen in the air, but it is advisable to pay all our attention to the arsonist who lit the fire.
Nick| 10.29.11 @ 4:12PM
jp,
So, no proof that the police injured that guy, huh?
conservative bob| 10.29.11 @ 6:53PM
bull shit!
conservative bob| 10.29.11 @ 6:54PM
My last was to JP Nick in case thre was any confusion.
jp| 10.29.11 @ 9:37PM
nice rebuttal CB
And Nick, your abhorrence of so-called "hippies" is irrational. Hope your not posting via a Mac or Microsoft, since both were invented by hippies....
Nick| 10.30.11 @ 12:12AM
jp,
Wrong. No hippie ever invented anything.
Except a need for better delousing techniques!
That vet was most likely hit with a projectile from one of his fellow hippy protesters. Ironic, huh?
jp| 10.30.11 @ 4:36AM
Steve Jobs, self-described hippie who used LSD. Paul Allen, the other half of MS (who remains behind the scenes the Bill Gates occupies), a former hippy who built the Jimi Hendrix Museum in Seattle. Nick, don't you feel less than effective using arguments making fun of appearances??? Reminiscent of the Loyalists conservatives in Boston 1774, who made fun of the radical patriots dressed up as Indians throwing the tea cargo over the sides of British tea ships, having a great Tea Party, (kinda like Woodstock ya know...)
Nick| 10.30.11 @ 1:25PM
jp,
Yes, and when Jobs and Allen grew up, they put away childish things, and started producing something. If only all the dirty, stinking, law breaking hippies would follow their examples.
The Boston Tea Party was like Woodstock? Oh, yes, now I see the similarities. How stupid of me not to have seen this before...NOT!
Unless, you meant that making fun of their appearance was like Woodstock, which would be even stupider. The patriots of Boston accomplished something. Were as the people at Woodstock, like the hippie protesters of today, only accomplished law breaking, such as rape and drug abuse, and turning nice areas into unsanitary cesspools.
Way to go, lefty protesters!
Do you have any links to videos of these hippy protesters getting schooled in modern law enforcement techniques? I would really appreciate it.
conservative bob| 10.30.11 @ 9:38AM
Thanks I thought it a fitting description of your last post.
jp| 10.30.11 @ 2:48PM
haha I was being facetious about the Woodstock/Tea Party reference, thought you'd recognize that (of course it wasn't a 'party', but Tory conservatives did make fun of the patriots dressing like Indians, them"foolish radicals", much like you guys are doing of protesters). Jobs said he would never had involved in technological innovation if he was not a LSD-taking hippie - read the biography. Can you criticize OWS with substantive arguments, rather than superficial ones based on appearances? Dirty, stinking - therefore they are wrong? Hope you never take a logic class in college, you'll get an F
Nick| 10.30.11 @ 3:29PM
jp,
And you would get an "F" in punctuation. I would get an "F" because I have logic, while the average college professor has none.
Plus, I gave my substantive arguments. These dirty, lazy, whiny, stinking, hippy protesters are law breakers who don't follow the orders of the local police. They are drug abusers. They have defecated on police cars. Some have raped and robbed their fellow protesters.
They are accomplishing nothing.
skip| 10.31.11 @ 11:13AM
Yeah, but c'mon, Nick, at least they know what they stand for, and offer solutions.
No, wait, that's not true.
Unless 'abolishing money' can be considered a 'solution'.
The leastest generation: they are emotional prattle devoid of reason and experience, and they just won't go away after half a century now, but at least they still smell really bad.
May the patchouli be with you, dude.
Nick| 10.31.11 @ 1:33PM
So very true, Skip.
I find your lack of febreze, disturbing. (Phew!)
skip| 10.31.11 @ 2:34PM
97% of climate scientists believe smelly hippies is caused by global warming. 2% are unsure. Only 1% don't believe smelly hippies is caused by global warming, and most of those are still suffering from the effects of the brown acid redistributed at Occupy Wood Stock, some of whom are not, but are highly competent in enthalpy and have three science degrees.
PattyMor| 10.27.11 @ 1:48PM
Glenn Beck predicted this some time ago. Remember its bottom up (OWS), top down and inside out. Its the beginning of the final phase of the revolution. When the riots start poor little ole' Barack will be "forced" to implement martial law. You know for our own good,. Its always for our benefit and not just some big naked power grab.
Vern Crisler | 10.27.11 @ 7:21PM
Beck drank too much from the conspiracy theory kool aide.
race_to_the_bottom| 10.27.11 @ 10:53PM
Back in the day the real conservatives who walked this land would recognize Beck and the rest of the Fox News idiots for the whack jobs that they are.
Nick| 10.27.11 @ 2:45PM
Rush just said that someone used an infra-red, or heat-sensitive, camera at the protest in London to see how many of these dirty hippies were spending the night in their tents. Answer: 90% were EMPTY!
Lazy whiners won't tolerate much discomfort.
These protests are a joke!
jp| 10.28.11 @ 3:52PM
The guy who got injured by police in Oakland is an Iraq veteran, who is employed as an engineer. Not a "dirty hippy". Hippies haven't been around since the 70s . I'm a young urbanite, and make an honest living - and I side with the protestors. I'm not a dirty hippy, but have an advanced degree. Where do you live, in a small town in the Midwest?
Nick| 10.28.11 @ 5:42PM
jp,
No, I live in the metro Detroit area. What does that have to do with price of tea in China?
Also, I'm an Operation Desert Storm veteran. Anyone who sides with these dirty, stinking, lazy hippies is a fool!
p.s. How do you know that that vet was injured by police?
Vickie Vedder| 10.27.11 @ 3:07PM
You are a wordsmith -- "misplaced indignation and delightful incoherence," and "laboring almost heroically to spread this MYTH." I can't get enough of the dry wit involved in your writing, not counting how dead-on are your observations.
martin j smith| 10.27.11 @ 4:21PM
Wall Street and Obama are one ( I mean ONE ) So if those phony politically backed and money backed poor little rich spoiled brats had a valid point--they would be attacking CRONY CAPITALISM and that would mean OBAMA himself-chief of Crony capitalism. Thus, this entire thing is a fake used to create social divide and social unrest. Trying to think of reasoning is time not well spent. Its the underlying support and rational of these agent provocateurs that must be exposed and challenged in the public square. That means the Republican candidates for president as part of their qualifying examination must show their stuff in this expose. Those who do get high marks those who don't fail and should not get support.
coryk| 10.27.11 @ 8:16PM
The mislead children of the demonic messiah - Obama - continue to spew destructive behavior across America.
Impeach the tyrannical government under Obama propagating terror, fear and poverty.
Hire Herman Cain to eradicate 'politician pollution' to promote the human spirit, remove government interference, and save America before it is too late.
jp| 10.27.11 @ 9:13PM
Wow, coryk, is nigh the end of the world? What grounds for impeachment? Seriously?
POST American| 10.27.11 @ 10:29PM
--------------------FINAL WORD------------------------
The ONLY next thing remains:
---RETRO-active IMPEACHMENT of our
past 4 RIIA-CFR Globalist front op administrations
---AUDIT, prosecute and DISMANTLE the
ILLEGAL, foreign owned, psychopathic,
USURY driven FED ---likewise their 'sources',
the ultra-rich, TAX FREE, 'benny violent'
---foundations and NGOs.
----HUAC meets NUREMBERG for TREASON
against the republic, cultural subversion, and
a full century of EUGENICS crimes here and
worldwide.
---------------Whenever you're ready kiddies!
Rmm| 10.28.11 @ 11:28AM
It keeps getting harder and harder to pay attention anymore to this overwhelming non-sense that is passed off as something that is real. Another farce from central planning I suppose, to distract attention from the real culprits. Instead of Occupy this and that try venting at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. ,the home of our Cheerleader-in-Chief who takes no responsibility for putting us deeper in the mess we are in. Thank-you very much!
jp| 10.28.11 @ 4:23PM
1) why is it necessary to attack the appearance of these protesters (who are comprised of a myriad of social/cultural/political backgrounds)? Please submit substantive argumentation rather than ad hominem abuse
2) Why is the OWS international? If it is pure "nonsense' as some claim here, then why did it spread beyond the water's edge?
3) Talk of civil war is pure millenialism at its best. Political turbulence was much more apparent in the 1890s, 1930s, and 1960s - these decades make the 2010s look like a cakewalk. I predict polarization to perpetuate, but that we will make it through the decade without civil strife. Thats just me...
Chuck in Northern Virginia| 10.28.11 @ 7:12PM
Mr. Tyrrell is spot on. These protesters and their elitist Left Allies, like Pelosi and Obama, may believe that lavishing more largess on vanguard of sloth is what America wants. But most Americans want a government that limits its spending to the role assigned to it by the US Constitution and to aid the truly needy. Loafers, whiners, professional protesters, community organizers, the Left Wing grievance Industry spokesmen getting rich off the taxpayer, trust fund fools, and various other frauds of this ilk do not represent ordinary working Americans. Some of us have to pay the bill so millionaire and billionaire liberals can feel good about things, we're tired of it.
conservative bob| 10.29.11 @ 9:20AM
Well said Chuck!
POST American| 10.28.11 @ 11:17PM
----------------------FINAL WORD----------------------
----AS the last of our economy is 'resettled'
ACROSS the Pacific -----even as fallout from
the, by far, greatest world nuclear disaster
of ALLL time, the HAARP-esque FUKISHIMA,
saturates our CHEM-trail knitted skies---------
---------------Tick ----Tick -----Tick
----------HUAC Meets NUREMBERG 2012---------
---------------------Tick ---Tick -----Tick!
Tenn Slim| 10.30.11 @ 8:40AM
"Zuccotti Park patriots and found "the movement doesn't represent unemployed America and is not ideologically diverse. Rather, it comprises an unrepresentative segment of the electorate that believes in radical redistribution of the wealth, civil disobedience, and, in some instances, violence."
RECALL Glenn Becks prognostications?
Jones, Cloward, Piven, Soros, etal, are the drivers.
EVEN tho Krugman is perrineally wrong headed, the Drivers are still out there. The grunts on the scene are not part of the Saul Alysnki cadre. REMEMBER THE BASICS
We WILL Prevail