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Another Perspective
Out of Iraq
And into a fog. But don’t forget Libya.
If you are a partisan Democrat, the current state of American foreign policy is apparently something to brag about. Consider just two brainstorms that came to us courtesy of Al Gore’s invention, the world wide web.
Over the weekend, the new policy director for Barack Obama’s reelection campaign sent out an email celebrating the president’s “Mission Accomplished” moment in Iraq. Happy Christmas, the war is over. “With that action,” the message boasted, “the war in Iraq will end. And one of the President’s central promises will have been kept.”
This, we are told, is an “example of what happens when a leader sets a plan in motion and sees it through.” (More on that later.)
Before that, we were treated to Markos Moulitsas’ celebratory tweet following the death of Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi: “GOPers who criticized Obama’s approach in Libya… wrong again.”
Let’s start with the central promise being kept, since that comes straight from the horse’s mouth. “As promised, the rest of our troops in Iraq will come home by the end of the year,” President Obama declared. “After nearly nine years, America’s war in Iraq will be over.”
Well, as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has acknowledged, the timeline for withdrawal was actually negotiated by the Bush administration. The troops were scheduled to come home at the end of 2011 before Obama even took office.
In fact, the Obama administration was engaged in negotiations to extend the U.S. military presence in Iraq past the end of this year. As recently as October 17, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta expressed optimism that a deal for an extension could be reached.
So in essence, the negotiations broke down and the Iraqis kicked the United States out. “On Friday,” Eli Lake reported, “Obama presented the loss at the negotiating table as a political victory.”
Now, Obama has good reason to spin this as a fulfilled campaign pledge and the Iraqi government has the right to bid adieu to foreign troops in its sovereign territory. But let’s not pretend this was part of some brilliant master plan.
Maybe the Obama administration bungled the negotiations with Iraq, as Josh Rogin reports, or perhaps there was never sufficient Iraqi support for a continued U.S. military presence (though do note the administration’s absurdly tendentious insistence, appended at the end of Rogin’s article, that such officials as the secretary of defense are not “the White House”). This clearly wasn’t what the White House — scratch that! — the administration had in mind. That’s part of the reason the American footprint will continue in a partially privatized form.
The chain of events in Libya is even further removed from the Obama administration’s control. Aside from the end of one heinous regime, it is not even entirely clear what kind of government will follow. The liberal blogger Matthew Yglesias quipped, “All the best humanitarian interventions end with summary executions.” The best that can be said for Libya as opposed to Iraq is that we have unleashed who knows what consequences at a much lower immediate cost in American blood and treasure.
None of this is to say Republicans are exactly covering themselves in glory. John McCain is upset the troops are going home from Iraq. Perhaps McCain could have negotiated a 100-year extension, but no immunity from Iraqi prosecution for American soldiers would have been a nonstarter even for him. Michele Bachmann, meanwhile, wants Iraq and Libya to “reimburse us for part of what we have done.”
Do our leaders understand what they have done? Is the federal government run by people with any idea what they are doing?
About the Author
W. James Antle, III, author of the new book Devouring Freedom: Can Big Government Ever Be Stopped?, is editor of the Daily Caller News Foundation and a senior editor of The American Spectator. You can follow him on Twitter @jimantle.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (89) | Leave a comment
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Michael Tomlinson| 10.24.11 @ 6:33AM
Obama's Middle East policy makes that of his political soulmate, Jimmy Carter, look strong.
1) Irans modertely pro-democratic protests soldout to despotic theocrats and their Jew/Western hating thug in chief.
2) Lebanon betrayed to Syria thus Iran is the country's new master.
3) Egypt soldout to a fundamentalist Muslim appeasing military dictatorship (best case) or the Muslim brotherhood (worst case).
4) The star in his crown of "lead from behind Libya" declaring the barbaric sharia will be the foundation of the new dictatorship.
5) Tunisia set to elect a fundamentalis/extremist Muslim.
6) Turkey morphing into Iran without a peep from Obama.
7) Iraq where moderate Shia, Sunnis and Kurds would like a continued US presence (a precusor to a truly democratic state Western Europe, Japan, South Korea, etc.) to thwart the ambitions of Iran there soon to be new master thanks to Obama.
8) Zero influence on the selection of a Sauid heir.
9) Coptic Christians or 10% of the Egyptian population betrayed and ignored.
This is not the result of US policy it is the result of Barack Obama's policies. Four years ago none of this was imaginable now, under Obama, we know it can only get worse.
Jack in Wi.| 10.24.11 @ 7:47AM
Mr. Thomlinson: What the hell were we supposed to do about that? The whole problem was exaspirated by our insane war in Iraq. Patriotic conservatives were against that war and said it would be a disaster. Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan, Bob Novak, General Norm Schwartzkoph, General Brent Skowcroft, James Baker, me, and many more said not to go into Iraq. Iraq was the lynchpin holding our policy together. Our old ally Hussain was the balance beween the radical Sunni's of Saudi Arabia, and the Shia of Iran. He also was a moderate Muslim who let women and Christians have a lot of freedoms. The Christians ran the numerous liquor stores and bars. Everyone could own a gun. I knew when I heard there were 250 gun stores open in Bagdad alone, that we would be in trouble. Hussain made his big mistake when he became our ally and started the Iran Iraq war. After that it was all down hill.
Gadafi made his big mistake by coming over to our side. Again he was a moderate Muslim who let women have a lot of modern rights. The people were rich because of the oil.
The neoconseratvies whole policy is supposed to be based on democratizing the middle East, with our blood and treasure. It has been a disasterous policy. The Middle East was never any of our business. Before 1945 we had little influence there and our people were welcomed as modernizers.
Since our policy has become totally Israel centric about 10 years ago it, has gone from bad too worse.
The people have been radicalized by our policies. Turkey, a key ally, has rightfully turned on Israel in disgust because of the way they treat their Palistinian helots. By far the best thing we could do is bring our troops home right now. We are broke and our military is broken by 10 years of wasted warfare.
All this was forseeable. The Bush Obama administration has ruined this country. Ron Paul for president and Rand Paul for vice president is the only solution. Anything else is more of the same.
Mike 3/505| 10.24.11 @ 10:38AM
"...exaspirated..."
You meant "exacerbated," I do believe.
Regards,
Mike
JR| 10.24.11 @ 12:16PM
The way Isreal treats the Palistinians? really? I am so sick of people like you who blame us for the way they act. Come on, man! Stop being such a p***y!
D Frum| 10.24.11 @ 12:58PM
I turn my back on you and so do all of my followers- all 11 of them. We meet at my tree fort on Foxhall Road.
TrueBlue| 10.24.11 @ 4:44PM
The Palestinians get better treatment by the Israelis than they do any of the Arab countries in the region, and most of the "bad" treatment from Israel is in response to attacks by terrorists from Gaza and the West Bank. Heck, Arabs in Israel have more rights than those living in the rest of the Middle East. Blame the right people, it's not the US or the Israelis.
Alan Brooks| 10.24.11 @ 10:30AM
American foreign policy is going the way of the Soviet Union's.
vtwin| 10.24.11 @ 11:24AM
America’s post war policies in the Middle East, the contaminate of communism, access to oil, and support for the apartheid state of Israel, pursued without regard for the indigenous population as the Rev. Jeremiah Wright so aptly put it “are coming home to roost.”
vtwin| 10.24.11 @ 11:26AM
Sorry: the containment of communism.
Doorgunner| 10.24.11 @ 11:46AM
When you quote Wright as a legitimate perspective, you are indeed as sorry as any s.o.b. to ever defame his own country.
But you've demomstrated that here repeatedly.
Occam's Tool| 10.24.11 @ 1:47PM
Doorgunner: I don't know if you've ever seen "The Mighty Boosh." It's a surrealistic British comedy.
But there is a wonderful scene where one the two heroes has to watch his boss (a dumpy, middle aged male) do the least erotic "erotic" (Right Said Fred like) dance of all time, followed by "Now you know why I don't like Cricket."
It's weird, off putting, and it makes no sense. Just like Obama's foreign policy.
JR| 10.24.11 @ 12:17PM
nazi
Boar Hunter| 10.24.11 @ 12:52PM
So America is evil, Israel is guilty of apartheid and the reverend wright is your hero. Why would you be sorry?
vtwin| 10.24.11 @ 11:38AM
Look on the bright side. Hillary Clinton has threatened Iran, John McCain has called for war with Syria, and Michele Bachmann said if elected President she’d reinstate Muammar Gaddafi. I know Michele doesn’t realize her husband is gay either.
LMajito| 10.24.11 @ 6:37AM
Don James, the answer to your last question is of course not...
they (US administration or WH folks) have no idea of what they're doing(this includes the clueless VP) plus they are so arrogant that will not listen to a voice other than their own and one can see amateur hour in full display several times each day.
but something must be said for the middle eastern residents...they love to be slaves and told what to do regardless...libyans now wanting to be ruled by sharia makes one scratch one's head and ask why?
did no like the last four decades of tyranny so you're going to jump into another 40 of mullah rule ala iran?
maybe is best to leave them alone and let them kill each other in the name of a sand dwelling voice hearing psycopath promising six dozens virgins to whoever gets killed in his name...
thing is that thanks to the US Marines, islamic nirvana have ran out of female virgins and only male ones are left...
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 10.24.11 @ 6:49AM
If the federal government was run by people who knew what they are doing and the damage they are causing, they would all resign.
doubtful| 10.24.11 @ 7:06AM
Let's get away from the stupid, cheesy "Who gets the credit?" discussions. Oh, the Bush administration should because they originally planned for a 2011 withdrawal? And the Obama-Panetta-Clinton- team looks dumb because they wanted an extension (just a few weeks ag0)
Maybe that is all true.
I don't give a rat's ass.
What I am concerned about is 1) the welfare of our troops, and 2) the long-standing prospects, however, slim, 0f a stabil and better Iraq (corner of the Mideast)
Let's just focus on concern number 1 -- will this be a very well calcuated, thorough (no equipment jeapordized or left to dicey hands), grand chess master-like executed withdrawal? How is it on the ground for our boys when there are only still 3,000 and then just 2,000 and then only 500 still on Iraqi soil?
Will we be ensuring that they have the firepower and safety they need so we don't get a massive, final suicide bomber attack (with mortars and rockets) on them?
Were/Are our generals at CENTCOM really prepared to do a 10-week (no notice really) withdrawal? Safely?
I/We don't need to hear of 55 U.S. troops dead and 80 casualties first week of December in a haste-makes-waste imprudent step during this withdrawal.
RND | 10.24.11 @ 7:27AM
How about all the international aid agencies and educational foundations that have "settled in" in Iraq in these last 7-8 years. Yes, they are not stupid; this entire time has been edgy and, at times, extremely perilous for international relief, medical, etc. workers.
Are they all now in a panic? Might they have wished for a more sl0w-go withdrawal timetable?
Do we really think they can rely and trust the Iraqi security forces so they can stay and further their good works?
I think we'll be hearing about these aid agencies racing now to pull up stakes and flee. (It will surely be the same in Afghanistan when that withdrawal commences)
***Surely these vital agencies and philanthropic undertakings would have appreciated just a tad more US governmental strategic planning notice?***
This will further imperil the chances for the good segment of Iraq's people to keep, gain, perhaps hold and not lose any chances of salvaging the "good" for a future Iraq.
As Iraq will now probably spiral back to anarchy, what will the last nine years have been for? Will so many of our soldiers and Marines have perished, bled, and been maimed (forever) for naught?
Timothy L. Pennell| 10.24.11 @ 7:10AM
And, so it begins.
Our NERO told a group, not that long ago, that he was prepared to do things BY HIMSELF. He would do whatever he could, WITHOUT Congress. He would go outside of Normal Channels. Sieg Heil!
All of his Military Advisers, and the State Dept, I believe, have warned him about pulling the plug. It can get Very Dark, when you pull plugs, if you do it at the wrong time.
The President has "ADVISERS" because he needs people with Expertise in the things that he doesn't know. That's why he is given Advice. And, the idea that he would IGNORE that advice, is a Bad Sign, for the rest of us.
The last time I remember a President doing this, was when Bill Clinton gave a Waiver to his "Good Friend" and the Democrat Party's #1 CONTRIBUTOR, Bernie Sanders' Loral Space Corporation. That Deal was opposed by the State Dept., the Joint Chiefs, the CIA, the NSA, the FBI and even his Mad Dog Attorney General, and the Murderer of all those little kids in WACO - Janet Reno. And, what was the End Result of this other Democrat President "Going it alone"? Chinese ICBMs that NOW, can hit their targets (US) with Accuracy. Nice deal, eh?
OBVOIUSLY, that deal was NOT in the best interest of the United States. Bill Clinton and the Democrats, were the intended Beneficiaries. And, our ENEMY, of course.
So, who benefits by this new round of Presidential "Leadership"?
OBVIOUSLY, our young Pharaoh, believes it will be him, and his Democrat Party.
And, our ENEMY, of course.
Does he care?
He does care. About HIMSELF. HIS POWER. And THE CAUSE. "By Any Means Necessary"!
Like I said: This is only the beginning.
We are looking at an Executive Order AVALANCHE, coming this way.
Mark my words.
Timothy L. Pennell| 10.24.11 @ 7:14AM
Bernie SCHWARTZ. Not Bernie Sanders. Sanders doesn't need a "Waiver" to be a Pain in the ass.
Bill| 10.24.11 @ 4:25PM
Bernie Schwartz: "Yondah lies da cassel of my faddah!"
Melvin| 10.24.11 @ 11:44AM
Timothy If indeed what you say, is correct, then is there any recourse by Congress via the Constitution that will allow them to clip junior's wings.
But I fear as many of us do already, that Congress gave up it's authority as a equal and separate branch of government to share in the spoils of this Country's economic downfall.
In short Obama bought off Congress.
vtwin| 10.24.11 @ 12:16PM
Only Americans bemoan peace.
Occam's Tool| 10.24.11 @ 1:49PM
Vtwin: was a peaceful Japan in 1941 better for America than an "at war Japan" on August 8th 1945?
Skippy| 10.24.11 @ 5:37PM
I love peace!
I celebrate the onset of world peace every August 6th.
Peace Day!
John786| 10.24.11 @ 7:36AM
Shock, horror. Politicians spin things for their advantage. America out of Iraq- maybe things can start to heal.
Drunken Sailor| 10.24.11 @ 11:30AM
John, with all due respect I think that depends on your definition of healing. Our troops can but I think Iraq will go the way of Iran. Hope I am wrong though.
W| 10.24.11 @ 12:40PM
John,
Do you support or favor the imposition of sharia law?
It appears Libya and Egypt will have sharia law.
Boar Hunter| 10.24.11 @ 12:58PM
Your "Politicians spin things for their advantage" statement reveals all I need to know about your liberal attitude.
ImissBuckley31| 10.24.11 @ 3:16PM
"Your "Politicians spin things for their advantage" statement reveals all I need to know about your liberal attitude."
Are you saying they don't?
martin j smith| 10.24.11 @ 7:41AM
You end your essay asking if our leaders know what they are doing. In the case of Obama my answer is I think he knows full well what he is doing. Both in foreign and domestic policies.
And until people like yourself stop asking such a question our nation will in grave peril. The answer has been there even since before day one of Obama's reelection. But the denial on many people's parts of who Obama really is ( that includes the Establishment Republican Leadershit )--that is a trojan horse --representing foreign interests including International Socialism and Radical Islam as well--until YOU get it we the peons--the peasants and even yourselves are in grave danger. This 2012 election is no joke. But again the RNC and all its allied persons do not take this election seriously enough me me. I waite some more on the mark statements and policies that give me confidence. Right now: NO CONFIDENCE !!!!!!!!!!!!!
William L. Gensert| 10.24.11 @ 11:06AM
I am not convinced the President is deliberately trying to destroy the nation, however, I would posit that Barack Obama is a perfect Storm. If he had intended to destroy the economy and trash employment, while exploding the deficit and the national debt, he couldn’t have done a better job. Yet, if that was his intention, you would think that he would have gotten something right in the last 2 ¾ years, if only accidentally.
Boar Hunter| 10.24.11 @ 1:58PM
What are you 10? You say your "not convinced" Obama is intentionally trying to destroy America. Was your comment supposed to be clever? With people as "tolerant" as you (presumably voting) it's no wonder Obama is president.
Let me remind you, Obama and his backers spent vast sums of money to elect him President of the United States of America. He was consequently given unlimited access to and control over, the "heads" of the United States of America's military, the CIA, FBI, NSA, DOJ, all of the federal departments with oversight over every financial market in the world, our commerce, industry and farming, a staff who reads and reports directly to him about everything that occurs of significance in the world on a daily basis and intelligence agencies who attempt to predict future events, he has appointed and has access to hundreds of Czars making millions of dollars, as well as an entire staff of personal advisors with their own staff (Oh sorry, I forgot Union Bosses).
Every single decision Obama has made curiously seems to have financially benefited the same donors, friends and union bosses who elected him and that has not surprisingly had a directly proportionate negative outcome for the American taxpayer. Gosh its almost as if we elected a dope smoking communist, mentored by racist, American hating radicals and your "not convinced" his decisions were on purpose?
What pre-tell would it take to convince you?
arc| 10.25.11 @ 3:14AM
Thanks, Boar Hunter. Right-o.
The man is dead set on our destruction. Can't wish it away because he has nice looking kids, a dog named Bo, and can occasionally hit a three-pointer (with much practice).
Whatever evil has entered his soul, it eminates with every deed and speech.
Remember, evil comes from Satan. And Satan does not dress as he is. If he did, we'd all be repulsed and flee in abject terror. We'd never go near. So Satan is sly and dresses in a manner pleasing to the eye, easy on the ears. Alluring. Pleasing even.
And so it is with evildoers on this earth.
The evidence with BHO is overwhelming.
Ken (Old Texican)| 10.24.11 @ 8:13AM
Martin,
you guys nailed it.
POST American| 10.24.11 @ 9:32AM
----Glad Saddam's gone.
NOW, on to dealing with the Globalist
EUGENICS OP as it is bringing in
MASS, and no doubt weaponized,
injections, franchise slums,
'POP culture' standarization and
INTER-national USURY.
"We ARE using MASSIVE third world
(largely muslim) immigration to DESTROY
British culture beyond repair, once and
for all, ---FOREVER."
-TONY BLAIR
Fmr PM/ Globalist/ Cultural EUGENIST/
--future EU President/ Psychopath
(2005 Daily Mail interview cited by
ALAN WATT online)
-----What we're dealing with---EVERYWHERE.
Tim the Enchanter| 10.24.11 @ 1:04PM
Huh?
Dixie Pixie| 10.24.11 @ 1:31PM
Post...You start to worry me when you are more coherent,logical and fact-based than Obama's foreign policy pronouncements.
Bill| 10.24.11 @ 4:24PM
E-U-G-E-N-I-C-I-S-T. Not EUGENIST. I bet even the Tavistock Institute and their ultimate capstone leader would agree on that.
Peter McGrath| 10.24.11 @ 9:58AM
Does anyone seriously believe that Iraq will remain a peaceful, democratic society in the wake of America tucking tail and allowing Iran to fill the power vacuum in that region?
That idiot pretender, Hillary Clinton and her stooges in Foggy Bottom have committed the gravest failure of diplomacy since America lost China to the Communists.
8 + years, hundreds of billions of dollars, thousands of our best and brightest killed and wounded, for what? A Shia dominated, anti-Western and anti-Christian Iraq, closely aligned with the Mullahs in Iran, that's what.
It's a demoralizing, sickening spectacle, and the fools handling our nation's foreign policy couldn't be handed pink slips - if not indictments - fast enough.
WJ| 10.24.11 @ 11:35AM
"A Shia dominated, anti-Western and anti-Christian Iraq, closely aligned with the Mullahs in Iran, that's what". That result was a foregone conclusion the day we toppled Saddam.
A man I voted for, the Idiot George W. got us into this mess. Don't forget that.
Peter McGrath| 10.24.11 @ 2:21PM
This "mess" to which you refer was a decision - after consulting with Congress and after obtaining a United Nations resolution - to go to war to remove Saddam Hussein from power.
We succeeded, at considerable cost - to us and our allies, notably the UK.
The failure is in walking away. For glaringly obvious, strategic reasons, we needed to maintain military bases in Iraq to bolster their nascent democracy and to stand as a bulwark against Iran's stated intention to dominate the region.
Frankly, if we actually had someone with moral authority in the State Department (other than the odious Clinton) who was willing to stand up for human rights and the rule of law, it would have been easy to stitch together a broad coalition of Iraqis willing to support a continued American presence there.
Instead, we have an utterly unqualified Secretary of State - an international laughing-stock, especially in the Arab world, for her pathetic husband's philandering - mumbling bromides about our "commitment" to Iraq without anything concrete to back up her empty promises.
She and her so-called Commander in Chief are a disgrace to every one of the hundreds of thousands of brave servicemen - some of whom paid the ultimate sacrifice - who fought and died in this war.
Any Iraqi, and their families, who supported the Americans in this conflict will soon have a target painted on their backs. We have failed brave Iraqis fighting for the rule of law and freedom in that land. Soon, they will start disappearing into the night as darkness and Islamic totalitarianism tightens its grip over an increasingly terrorized populace.
ImissBuckley31| 10.24.11 @ 3:35PM
"it would have been easy to stitch together a broad coalition of Iraqis willing to support a continued American presence there."
I agree with you that Hillary Clinton is a horrible Secretary of State, however convincing the Iraqis that they needs us to stay is more than just convincing politicians, you have to convince the people. If the Iraqi people don't want us there, then the caliber of our diplomats isn't entirely the problem. An Iraqi politician isn't going to back a continued foreign presence if his constituents oppose it.
They're a free and independent nation now thanks to us, if they want us gone, then so be it. We can't force them to allow us to stay, and if we tried that would be a greater dishonor to the troops who fought for Iraq's right to be free.
Skippy| 10.24.11 @ 6:16PM
What mess?
The biggest a$$hole in the ME is dead; popular revolutions are breaking out all over the region; zillions of jihadis are dead as well.
What would the ME look like today if GWB had done a Clinton and, after 9/11 had a conference, a speech and a blowjob?
The semi-chaos of today is better than the endless madness of Saddam's Iraq.
In times of trouble, nothing focuses the attention like an American invasion.
Frankly, we should stay; nationalize their oilfields; suck up as much as we see fit to pay for their war; fly drones around wherever we like; and renew our standing as the best friend and worst enemy in history.
Mike 3/505| 10.24.11 @ 10:40AM
I predict a "helicopter on the roof of the US Embassy" moment down the road...just like Saigon.
Regards,
Mike
doubtful| 10.25.11 @ 3:50AM
Yes, Mike. This is what I refer to above. This would be my nightmare for our guys.
Hopefully the planners have gotten this down. Force protection.
Why can't we have a military force posture that loudly projects: "It matters not whether we have a heavy brigade of 4,000 troops or a final contingent of just 50 with boots on the ground. If you harm a hair on their heads, you will invoke a wrath akin to that spoken of in the book of Revelation."
Kingofthenet| 10.24.11 @ 12:06PM
Something tells me that IF we were STILL were fighting in Vietnam, (Since the 60's) and Obama wanted to extricate us from THAT quagmire the Editors here would have questioned the sacrifices of the two million US soldiers dead by that point would be in vain.Let it go....Que Sera, Sera
W| 10.24.11 @ 12:53PM
King,
You do know that Nixon withdrew all the troops and there was a Paris Peace Accords in January 1973? Following Nixon's resignation, the Democratic Congress stopped all aid to our ally South Vietnam. In January 1975 North Vietnam conducted a full scale conventional invasion of South Vietnam with victory in April 1975. You do remember the boat people, the red-education camps, and the Cambodian genocide of two million people in 1975-1976?
Vietnam is a poor example for "what if history" when the real Vietnam history is there for us to exaimine. The Democrats' failure to help South Vietnam, our ally, with military aid (not soldiers) led to our ally's defeat, genocide in the area, and loss of American prestige and power worldwide during the Carter years.
And what did the 60,000 Americans die for in Vietnam given the Dems abandonment of Vietnam?
doubtful| 10.25.11 @ 3:53AM
Thanks, W. We all needed that good historical -- accurate -- perspective.
martin j smith| 10.24.11 @ 12:17PM
kingofthenet( which you are not ) we left Vietnam with dire consequences but you forgot to mention that. Now we are leaving Iraq and any consequences are the result of BHO policies which are purposely done, BHO is purposely destroying this nation which perhaps you like. Like the economy its BHO's he owns it including the results good bad or indifferent. And they will be bad.
Kingofthenet| 10.24.11 @ 12:25PM
Yeah he OWNS all the debt, Your Rethug presidents racked up, He owns the Wall-Street meltdown that began BEFORE he took office.He OWNS the 'off the book' wars you guys started.
Drunken Sailor| 10.24.11 @ 2:06PM
Why yes he does. It's called the Presidency. He wanted and campaigned for the job. Ok, he campaigned for the title, the job proved more difficult than he could get on a bumper sticker. Time for him and you to put on your big boy undies, pull up your pants, stop crying and do the job. He inheireted some big issues, then he proceeded to make them even bigger major issues. And he didn't succeed in Iraq, we are leaving because they asked us to after HIS talks broke down. Enter, Iran, stage right.
Occam's Tool| 10.24.11 @ 1:51PM
He owns the Wall Street meltdown caused by the Fannie Freddie debacle that HE supported. He owns the debt that he has created that dwarfs the Bush years. He owns the unemployment level caused by his terrifying investors. Yup. He wons a lot, Obama does.
Warrior | 10.24.11 @ 3:23PM
How can he own any of these things? Didn't he just tell everyone who will listen that every decision he has made has been correct?
Occam's Tool| 10.24.11 @ 1:52PM
Sorry. "He owns a lot..."
Ken (Old Texican)| 10.24.11 @ 3:16PM
Doctor,
I have pretty much quit arguing with the fools here.
One cannot reason with them.
Rather, we might be better employed building a pot full of predator drones...and domestic drilling rigs.
Also, we might want to begin deporting proponents of Sharia law....by the boatload....and make Obama their boat-captain.
Dixie Pixie| 10.24.11 @ 4:11PM
Blessed be Obama who causes the sun to rise and the moon to glow.
Praise be to “Obama the Great Won” who brought the healing natural flood waters to the Missouri flood plains triumphantly smiting the Republican voting farmers therein.
Glory be to “Obama the All Wise” who gifted sweet waters to the snail darter fish and ridding the farmlands of the plague of small independent farmers with their Gala destroying fertilizers and pesticides thus returning the land to its natural desert state.
Let us give thanks that the “Most Intelligent of all Presidents”, who took time away from shielding his people from the ravages of the Bush Great Depression by keeping the unemployment rate to 9%, to manfully handle foreign policy.
Yes the” All Knowing Obama” applied his "Marvelous Intellect" which gave us a three year and continuing economic recovery, to the most pressing foreign policy needs of all, the Ending of the Iraq War.
Yes his “Wondrous Intellect” deduced the proper and just way to end the Iraq War which befuddled the Bush Presidency.
Praise be to Obama who's blinding intellect and oratory convinced the Iraq government to unceremoniously kick us out for being annoying bomb-dropping idiots.
Mighty is the “Greatest of All Constitutional Scholars” who avoided the usual pitfalls of war by starting an illegal war on Libya thus avoiding any legal limitations.
The “Most Brilliant of Foreign Policy Wonks” paved new leadership ground by studiously avoiding any responsibly or control over the Libyan War.
The “Wonk of all Wonks” created a new leadership style by the adroit use of political vacuum in “Leading From Behind.
Qaddafi never what hit him when he was executed Chicago gangland style and his body displayed in a meat-locker.
Obama did it all in a weeks time, thus showing us all the faultless timing which earned him the Nobel Peace Prize.
Most honored must we be to walk the same Earth as Obama.
Naturally it is only “Right and Just” that we pay more for privilege through higher taxes.
Bill| 10.24.11 @ 4:21PM
As soon as our leaders decided that our armed forces were not going to be used to WIN this f**king conflict, they should have brought our troops back home immediately.
If we want to use our force to make other nations behave in some diplomatic way that we favor, then we should not be sending our people whose job is to "close with the enemy and destroy him." Our leaders should have been sending the diplomats to Iraq, not our soldiers, sailors and airmen.
Bill| 10.24.11 @ 4:27PM
Let the State Department folks take a few rounds for a while, maybe they'd learn something about how the REAL world works.
arc| 10.25.11 @ 3:36AM
Bill, maybe this has worked some after the 19 hours of shelling, gunfire and attacks in Kabul two weeks ago?
Apparently now great apprehension in our Kenya embassy.
It truly is odd that so many Foggy Bottom people are foggy, fudgy thinkers. This is baffling. They've been to the far flung corners of the earth where 1. human rights don't exist, 2. the rule of law is never enforced, 3. a sack of money is what rules the day, 4. or a rack of weaponry, removed, loaded, and fired, 5. today you may walk free but tomorrw you are imprioned, 6. the people have no hope or optimism about the future.
I once worked at State. It was not a long spell. I did not encounter real clear thinkers there.
Note: I sometimes wonder about those UN employees who survived the bombing of the UN compound in Baghdad in 2004. It was a decimation. Did this wake up those UN folk?
martin j smith| 10.24.11 @ 4:26PM
OK the word responsibility is really hard and gosh darn it i can't really expect our president to know what it means. Here is a word Obama is really familiar with though: Liar. That he knows very well.
But as long as I am on a vocabulary kick let me put forth a really hard one: P-R-O-J-E-C-T-I-O-N
That means you accuse others of your own faults.
That is so typical of the kingofthenet types. And yes, trying to engage in anything "meaningful is not worth a dime. So I do not expect it and no one who Conservatives should either but that is up to you all.
Simon Templar| 10.24.11 @ 5:56PM
Martin, just wanted you to know that I appreciate your insights, comments, amd analysis on this matter and many others. I also share your frustration in your attempts to argue somes sense into some of these trolls, bloggers, and others. Your willingness to stick to it and argue your points of view is admirable.
We all grew up to some extent thinking free speech and debate is a good thing in society and the free exchange of ideas as the basis of a good and functioning society.
We no longer live in a time where that grand idea is a reality or anything of real value. You may remember the days of William Buckley's televison show where people, adults, could carry on a discussion with grace, dignity, respect, and intelligence.
Logic, reasoning, and intellectual honesty were shared, common values that were actually employed and set the ground rules for discussion. People expected them to be present no matter what their political pursuasion ( expect a denial of this from the trolls).
This is no longer the case. It is an exercise in futility. Post modernism has essentially made this an impossibility. All opinions are now equal and valid, logic and reasoning unnecessary and irrevelant, and intellectual honesty..what is that?
This is what we are dealing with, particularly with today's liberal. To the likes of kingofthenet, it is not about making a reasoned logical argument based on commonly known facts, history, and supporting information.
It is is about who can make the smarmiest comeback, the best name calling, the loudest voice, the best projection, the best string of false premises, and the biggest lies.
There is no objective reality..it is all up for grabs.
What makes something valid is because I said it.
That is it, nothing else is needed.
You and a few out here really are the only reason I still come out to this site. Occam, Ken, Margie, Gymzr, Dr. Right, Dixie, PolishKnight, Drunken Sailor, W, and Timothy Pennel are a rare breed. I am sorry if I left any one out but you know who you are.
I do not agree all the time with every single point or argument but I do not have to as all of you are not only original thinkers but have a great depth, grasp, and understanding of many issues.
Everyone of you trys to be intellectual honest and attempts to make a logical reasoned argument and valuable observations. I thank every one of you.
So, keep writing. Who knows, maybe somebody will stop here and it will light a bulb in their heads.
Dixie Pixie| 10.24.11 @ 7:34PM
Greetings Simon
On behalf of all of us, Thank you for you kind words and compliments.
If I may, I have a question?
I have been experimenting with using humor to reenforce my arguments.
However without feedback it is hard to tell if the effort is worth the wit.
So should I continue or just drop the jokes completely and stick to being a sober analyst.
As always I await your reply.
PS...I loved your work with Roger Moore and Val Kilmer.
Dixie Pixie| 10.24.11 @ 7:38PM
Sorry for the error Simon.
New Line:::::
On behalf of all of us, Thank you for your kind words and compliments.
Drunken Sailor| 10.25.11 @ 8:55AM
Appreciate the Kudo's Simon. The feeling is reciprocated.
vtwin| 10.24.11 @ 5:05PM
The Radical Christian Right and the neoconservative Jews had great plans for the Middle East after 9-11. First was to be Iraq then Iran followed by Syria, billions spend on new military bases and the largest embassy in the world build between Euphrates and Tigris rivers. All build to lord over the Muslim world and protect Israel and OUR oil. Over a trillion dollars, nearly five thousand dead Americans, and tens of thousands of others horribly maimed and disfigured for live. What went wrong? Where the Iraqi heroes dead and alive just better warriors? Where our brave men and women serving in Iraq distracted? Distracted by the problems, theft of jobs, homes, and the savings by the 1%, of friends and families at home? Or, where the American people like the German people before them just not worthy of greatness?
Simon Templar| 10.24.11 @ 6:06PM
Not deserving of a response....backing away slowly..limiting eye contact...sure... whatever you say....
RCV| 10.24.11 @ 5:33PM
Sorry, guys, but from my perspective, Obama's conduct of the wars and foreign policy has been excellent. He skillfully managed the drawdown from Iraq, even though the inevitable result of that blunderous war will be turning Iraq into a satellite of the much-more-dangerous Iran, the sworn enemy of our allies in the region, the Israelis and Saudis. He has decimated Al Qaeda as Bush never did, eliminating Bin Laden and the American sheik, and droning off one Al Qaeda leader after another, while not waiting around for Pakistan and Yemen to do the job they would never do. And he worked with our NATO allies to get rid of the man who not only terrorized his countrymen, but blew up American civilians and killed American soldiers in Germany. A pretty impressive record.
Simon Templar| 10.24.11 @ 6:04PM
Great, think what ever you like.
Skippy| 10.24.11 @ 6:32PM
His great successes have all been murder.
Legal; diplomatic; Presidential and all that, but still only murder.
He has no regard for the future of the region, and no plan, as long as it doesn't interfere with his domestic agenda.
This is a foreign policy wizard?
Dixie Pixie| 10.24.11 @ 6:59PM
RCV....With all due respect, are we looking at the same foreign landscape?
Let us go down the list.
India...openly sides with Russia against us based on our alliance with Pakistan.
Pakistan....the relationship is so bad shooting has broken out the Pakistan soldiers and the US Army.
Afghanistan....Karzai has openly stated he will be allied with the Taliban in the near future.
The rest of the “Stan's”....The governments do not want to be seen with America in any form and all forward bases are to be closed or subordinated to the hosting government.
Iran....No need to go over that case.
Iraq....We were just thrown out of Iraq.
Turkey....The Turks shell and invade Kurdistan periodicity despite having Kurdistan under US protection.
Syria....The US is currently trying to overthrow that government and all ambassadors have been withdrawn severing all diplomatic relations.
Saudi Arabia....US relations are frozen after the US helped the “Arab Spring” rebels overthrow neighboring governments.
Yemen...In the middle of a civil war with the USA friendly government not expected to last the year.
Lebanon....Under control of Hamas.
Israel....Obama tried to prevent the election of Bibi Netanyahu and the formation of a conservative government.
Egypt....The US just overthrew the government in favor of who knows what.
Sudan....The US has broken it up into two new countries who don't trust us for good reasons.
Libya....Civil War and dead leadership helped by the US.
Tunisia....Just elected an pro-Islam, anti-American government.
All the rest.....No one wants to be seen favoring the US as there is no upside and all downside to the relationship.
Add it all up and it is obvious that Obama's foreign policies have been a disastrous combination of Magical Thinking, ideological blindness, imaginary history and complete cultural misunderstanding.
In short Obama has burned down the Middle-East beyond recovery.
doubtful| 10.25.11 @ 3:25AM
How about how we let China bully Taiwan and bully all erstwhile allies with Taiwan away from Taiwan and toward warmer relations with Bejing. This, too, is a tough area to deal with, but it is one we are failing in right now.
This will have implications throughout the Pacific as we let China dictate and bully.
W| 10.24.11 @ 8:00PM
RCV,
I diagree about Iraq. We are withdrawing and there is nothing skilful about packing up and leaving. I am not 100% clear about the immunity agreement they were supposedly negotiating, but the news reports are that Obama is following the 2008 Bush agreement to withdraw.
If you believe that the inevitable result is to turn Iraq into a satellite of Iran, which I agree with, then it follows we should stay in Iraq with a military presence to prevent it. Once we leave then Iran is the big power in the area and not us.
Give Obama credit for allowing the military to kill BinLaden and the others. He is better than Clinton who refused to take BinLade when he was offered to us in the mid 90's.
Getting rid of Gadaffi is good. Can't argue. Now who knows what will happen in Libya.
Les Nesman| 10.24.11 @ 11:05PM
It is certainly more cost effective than what have seen previously.
Drunken Sailor| 10.25.11 @ 8:58AM
RCV,
For the sake of argument, lets go with your theory. It still will not save him. Bush was considered strong on terrorism as well. But the left successfully ran against his spending and worsening economy as well as anti-war. Now they have a even worse econonmy, have increased spending many fold and are claimig war victories. The hypocrisy is astounding.
RCV| 10.26.11 @ 10:57AM
I don't disagree that foreign policy succeses will count for little in the face of economic distress. The election will turn on whether the public believes the GOP candidate offers better solutions for an economic turnabout. That still remains an open question.
Naturalborn Texicanette| 10.24.11 @ 9:16PM
Just finished reading Joel Rosenberg's latest novel about the end times, "The Tehran Initiative." I highly recommend the series.
Most Americans do not understand the real threat of radical Islamists. We need a leader who will recognized this threat, and deal with it immediately,and in no uncertain terms.
Unfortunately, I also believe that anything we do to attempt to contain such fanatically radical countries can only delay the inevitable. The Bible clearly lays out the coming events leading up to the end times and the events that will take place.
We may possibly be able to delay those events - through the choices we make, as individuals and as a nation - but we cannot eliminate them.
Jesus is!
Les Nesman| 10.24.11 @ 11:01PM
It is starting to look like basing our foreign policy on the Old Testament or Revelation is a bad idea.
Perhaps one of the new test for prospective President should be, IF God talks to you & tells you what to, THEN you are disqualified.
Norm Klevens| 10.24.11 @ 11:01PM
Now we snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Does anyone who reads this great site think Obama negotiated or laid down what he wanted to the Iraqi government ? And then when not achieved told them to go pluck their feathers. This is the failure who thinks a script can be written for a real war, when one is actually at the command and control of that war and not allow for contingencies. And why wouldn't Malaki meet with leaders next door ? Just because the USA president does not meet with his real counterparts. But I'll bet the tenor of the meeting was a hole lot different after a disagreement with Obama. The Sunni leaders of both countries probably had a great meeting. Now that dream of having an ally in the middle east is probably on that ash heap of history another US president spoke about.
POST American| 10.24.11 @ 11:56PM
-------------------BOTTOM LINE-----------------------
'EUGENIST' is the spelling from HUXLEY
and LORD BERTRAND RUSSELL themselves.
BOTH of them -----YOU--GENISTS.
Perhaps it would be better to go back to
the tried and true earlier terms for such
like folk:
-----ACTUARIAL PSYCHOPATHS
-------------and MASS MURDERERS
-----------HUAC meets NUREMBERG 2012---------
Dimitri Aleksandrovich| 10.25.11 @ 1:57AM
Bachmann wants reimbursement for what? Up to maybe a million Iraqis dead unnecessarily most of them being civilians. Over 30,000 Libyans killed again mostly civilians. Not to mention the infrastructure that's been destroyed in both countries and the Western oil firms that have raped and pillaged Iraq and are drooling to do the same to Libya. If I was an Iraqi or Libyan I would give Bachmann "the finger" and say here lady...I got your reimbursement right here.
Dimitri Aleksandrovich| 10.25.11 @ 2:05AM
As for the withdrawal it is long overdue given that we should have never bombed and invaded Iraq in the first place back in 2003. As for Obama taking credit for and spinning an outcome that apparently he didn't want...he's a politician whether they have an R or a D before there name's they are essentially the same political animals with the same instincts especially in an election year.
McCain was plain nuts suggesting we should keep troops in Iraq indefinitely and Obama was nuts for expanding the war in Afghanistan which is now being fought in Pakistan as well. Not to mention the continuing drone strikes in Yemen and Somalia.
Non-interventionism of the Ron Paul type is what America needs at this point in time.
james bombard| 10.25.11 @ 12:02PM
Have them as neither friends or enemies. Recognize them as the crushers of all freedoms we love and periodically die for. Freedom loving will dominate them or they will dominate us , the rest is so much blah,blah.blah
Dale Stewart| 11.1.11 @ 2:06PM
Veterans, and all who love and support America's defenders, should find this open letter to the president of particular interest.
9/20/11
Dear President Obama,
"As a Doctor, an Air Force Veteran, and Congressman, who serves on the Foreign Affairs Committee and has always fought for the best interest of our troops, I was deeply concerned to learn that our military retirees are now facing benefit cuts under your proposed $1.5 trillion dollar tax hike.
"Our military men and women have fought bravely. In exchange, our country made a promise to them, and we must honor it.
"There are trillions of dollars in unwise and unconstitutional spending we must cut. There are few other leaders in Washington willing to cut spending as deeply as I am and truly balance our budget. But, we must make sure we take care of our Veterans who fought to take care of us.
"We have put our troops in harm's way, and we must honor our promises. And, our troops have paid a heavy price these past ten years. Over 5,000 have lost their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan, 40,000 have seen crushing injuries, and hundreds of thousands more suffer from brain injury and post traumatic stress disorder.
"Failing to meet the promises we have made to our troops would be unjust and immoral. The cuts you announced yesterday, combined with the rumored cuts in benefits reported in publications like Army Times, have our soldiers and Veterans deeply concerned.
"Mr. President, instead of cutting our Veterans benefits, I call on you to support our troops. Support them by bringing them home to our shores, to protect our borders and defend our country. Ensure that they are rested and equipped to repel any real credible attack. Re-unite them with their families. And, make sure they no longer play policeman in dangerous foreign civil wars.
"Cutting the benefits of our Veterans benefits while we subsidize the security of other wealthy nations like Germany and Japan and play World Policeman makes no sense. The money we would save extracting our fighting men and women and our equipment from overseas conflicts and regions will more than offset the savings you seek by upending the manner in which veterans receive care.
"Bringing our troops home would ensure that we keep the promise to our Veterans, strengthen our national defense and secure our borders.
"Do not mistake me for a pacifist or a person solely focused on the economics of the unsustainable global security and state-building that has helped our country arrive at the shores of financial ruin. On the contrary, I consider my military service as an Air Force flight surgeon during the Cold War to be among my highest personal and professional achievements.
"Authentic, Constitutionally-sound national security -- a strong national defense -- begins with guarding our borders and not the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.
"Mr. President, I call upon your to support our troops, honor our Veterans, and ensure our wounded get the care they deserve. To do so, we must end these protracted, trillion-dollar wars and bring them home."
In Liberty,
Ron Paul
x-Mattress | 2.2.12 @ 10:16PM
The best way is leave Iraq..stay away from killing anything..