-
Pray and Grow Rich
May 16, 2013 | 63 comments
-
Ruthie’s Way
May 2, 2013 | 6 comments
-
A Free and Indivisible Union
April 25, 2013 | 70 comments
-
Revoke Obama’s Peace Prize
April 18, 2013 | 80 comments
-
What the New Atheists Ignore
April 11, 2013 | 103 comments
The Nation's Pulse
Free College
How much would tuition cost us if it were free?
One of the few coherent demands of the Occupy Wall Street mob is free college education. Perhaps the college-age protesters do not realize we are just coming out of America’s worst recession in 50 years. That wouldn’t surprise me. Maybe they don’t know the truly needy often do go to college for free, but those from middle-class and upper-middle-class backgrounds — most of the protesters, I’ll wager — are expected to contribute something to their education.
Most likely they expect the “greedy one percent” to pick up the tab. Hey, why not?
How to pay for college has been on my mind a lot lately. My son will be going away to college next fall. Besides the stirrings of empty-nest syndrome, there is the looming concern of how we will pay the exorbitant tab. Unwilling to subject him to the ineptness of the local public school system, we have paid dearly for a private high school education. And I fully expect to pay for a good deal of his college.
If he were an average student, deciding on a college would be a lot easier. He would attend the local community college, or the local state university and that would be that. But, unlike his dad, he has always been an over-achiever, and he would like to go to an over-achiever’s school.
Like the protesters and — I would assume — everyone in America, I do agree that tuition is often, to borrow a former New York mayoral candidate’s catchphrase, “too damn high.” At least at the elite private schools. The University of Chicago, where my son has his heart set, has an annual sticker price of $41,091. His second choice, Vanderbilt, is upwards of $40,600. That’s not counting the $13,000 for room and board.
Think about it. For the price of four years at Vanderbilt, we could easily purchase four houses on our block — maybe more — and set our son up in business as an enlightened slumlord. With guaranteed subsidy payments from the federal government, he’d be set for life.
But elite schools aren’t the only games in town. When you read the gripes of the Occupy Wall Streeters, a familiar theme emerges: their crushing student loan debt. (Just this week, it was reported that Americans owe $1 trillion in unpaid student loans.) Some talk of being $95,000 in debt from their undergrad years. I’m not even sure how this is possible. The admissions counselors we’ve spoken to say you can only borrow $5,500 a year in federal loans. Are these students spending decades in college? And at what colleges?
Certainly there are affordable state universities. My alma mater, a nondescript Midwestern state school, costs less than my son’s current Catholic high school. Tuition at another local state school, Southern Illinois University, costs a mere $4,432. But I suspect the Occupy Wall Street mob would turn up their collective noses at free tuition to SIU.
SO WHY IS elite college tuition so “damn high”? It may not surprise you to learn that it is a result of the federal government’s involvement. The real cost of University of Chicago’s tuition is probably half its sticker price. But UChicago can double its price tag because administrators know the federal government (read: taxpayer) will cough up the other half in scholarships, loans, grants, work study, etc.
I wonder if the protesters, who demand more government involvement, realize this — that without government involvement, virtually all qualified candidates could afford college? And I wonder if the protesters know that in countries where tuition is “free” colleges are highly selective, that students have to pass rigorous admission exams, and that there are a lot fewer of them, compared to the U.S. with its 4,800 colleges and universities? Most of all, I wonder how much tuition will be when it’s free?
One thing I would like to say to the protesters is, “You want free tuition to a top-tier school? Earn a full academic scholarship.” Yes, that will take a lot of hard work. Instead of hanging out with your friends, smoking weed and banging drums, you’d have to crack open a book. But you just might learn something useful — like economics and how, after high school, at least, there is no such thing as a free lunch.
About the Author
Christopher Orlet writes from St. Louis.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (63) | Leave a comment
More Articles by Christopher Orlet
More Articles From The Nation's Pulse
http://spectator.org/archives/2011/10/20/free-college
Follow us:
ADVERTISEMENT
SPONSORED LINKS
FLASHBACK TO: 1995
-
Pope Culture
A man of faith in a godless age is hitting Americans where it hurts.
-
Why the GOP Does Not, Like, Totally Suck
Mr. and Mrs. American Spectator Reader, let P.J. O’Rourke talk sense to your kids.
-
Dames at Sea
-
In the Absence of Guns
In Britain, defending your property can get you life.
-
The Metaphysical Martini
-
Counting the Costs of Clintonism
The debacle of this president’s administration is both a cause and a symptom of the decline of American values. Unless Congress impeaches him, that decline will go on unchecked. An eminent jurist surveys the damage and assesses the chances for the recovery of our culture.
-
Chuck McHagel
It won’t take long for conservatives to scratch this presidential wannabe off their 2008 scorecard.
-
The Legacy of Old John and Mother Fresh-Roasted
-
It’s the Best Time of the Year
The American Christmas, like the songs that celebrate it, makes room for everybody under the rainbow. Is that why so many people seem to be hostile to it?
-
The Bush Crack-Up
Was the President done in by the economy, or by the politics of the economy?
Clip of the Day
ADVERTISEMENT
Cosmo| 10.20.11 @ 6:15AM
Chris: I would say buy those houses and set your son up as manager and he can earn his tuition from the rents. He will learn more by managing property than he would going to college. I know
because I've done both. Property management is a fun and exciting business.
Hank| 10.20.11 @ 10:41AM
Those OWS kids need what our parents gave us when we where 3 years old. A good pat on the rump and a time out to think about their actions!
POST American| 10.20.11 @ 6:20AM
---Putting aside 5 decades of aggressive
bias and promotion of foreign (--largely
RED Chinese) student enrollment ---AND
balkanization promoting 'Affirmative Action'---
the sky high costs of college, despite
centuries of lavish endowments, grants,
TAX FREE bennies etc. is there to
make sure the middle class is addicted
to their debt system from
the get go.
Obama's been generous with loans, as
was Bush, to 'buy off' what might be
a real source of effective and genuine
opposition ---the students.
We know doctors in their 40's
STILL paying off their school costs.
--CUT TO THE CHASE--
--------------------------Globalist-------------------------
--------------------------USURY--------------------------
-------------------------RED China------------------------
-------------------sellout and TREASON---------------
-----------------------------OP-----------------------------
----------------------(youth branch)---------------------
CUT TO THE SOLUTION:
-----------HUAC meets NUREMBERG 2012---------
Tim the Enchanter| 10.20.11 @ 7:56AM
Huh?
Buck Ofama| 10.21.11 @ 2:25AM
No one reads this shit.
Darin| 10.20.11 @ 6:45AM
Demanding something for free is demanding that someone give of their time, energy, and abilities at no cost to you. In other words, the very definition of slavery. So the OWS crowd wants to impose slavery on universities.
This is the opposite of someone freely giving of their time, energy, and abilities. If I choose to do so on my own, it's charity. If someone else makes that choice for me, it's slavery.
TrueBlue| 10.20.11 @ 1:41PM
Not just on the universities, but on every tax-paying American too.
Harry Hunter| 10.20.11 @ 6:53AM
Before the mad Whitlam Government brought in universal free terrtiary education and nearly bankrupted the country, Australia had a system of "Commonwealth scholarships" which meant anyone of real ability could get a tertiary educarion, but a moron had to pay for it. It was a good system and I wonder if it has ever been studied in America.
THKrupp| 10.20.11 @ 10:34AM
I had heard from a fellow countryman of yours that the government provides a "free" college education. Then after graduation the student gives up a small percentage of their income back to the Government to reimburse them. That seems like a very workable solution.
Michael Tomlinson| 10.20.11 @ 7:29AM
"SO WHY IS elite college tuition so "damn high"? It may not surprise you to learn that it is a result of the federal government's involvement. The real cost of University of Chicago's tuition is probably half its sticker price. But UChicago can double its price tag because administrators know the federal government (read: taxpayer) will cough up the other half in scholarships, loans, grants, work study, etc."
The same holds true for medical costs. Anywhere the government is the largest third party payer the costs go up and up.
Margie| 10.20.11 @ 8:09PM
How does this fact fit in with Gov. Rick Perry's free in state tuition for illegals, then?
Christopher Manion| 10.20.11 @ 8:03AM
Mr. Orlet addresses an issue that has captured the attention of a generation of students and parents.
Young, newly-minted lawyers can easily find themselves jobless with $150,000 in student debt (and that's if they borrow only half of their total expenses). That debt cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. Are they gong to get married to someone in similar circumstances? Will they be able to afford to have children?
There are many alternatives to prestige institutions that cost $30,000-$50,000 a year, and often require men to sit through oppressive sensitivity training sessions (why do many colleges have 70% women undergrad populations?). Go online and find accredited institutions that allow you to get a serious bachelor's degree in less time and for far less money than the four, five, or six-year residential college will take.
Gary North (google him) has compiled a lot of information on those online programs -- at colleges you've heard of: Eastern Oregon University, Ohio University, and Louisiana State University, for instance. A self-directed and focused student can get a bachelor's degree from an accredited college in three years for under $20,000. Yes, he or she will miss the "puke parties" and the mandatory sexual harassment seminars -- a great loss, to be sure.
Some folks just have to go to Harvard, fine. But about 90% of employers (you do want a job, don't you?) who "require a college degree" don't care **where** you got it. They care about what you learned. In the coming lean (and leaner) years, even highbrows will be looking to save $100,000 per child. The alternative might be a decision to have fewer children -- and Mark Steyn and Pat Buchanan and Steve Mosher have told us what will happen to Western Civilization if that comes to pass.
Buck Ofama| 10.21.11 @ 2:28AM
>Some folks just have to go to Harvard, fine. But about 90% of employers (you do want a job, don't you?) who "require a college degree" don't care **where** you got it. They care about what you learned.
Well said. Dave Ramsey would agree.
I've been to four colleges: Indiana U, Belmont U (Nashville), Harvard (Cambridge) and Nashville School of Law.
What really matters is the student's effort, and more importantly, what the student has achieved after college.
Nancy in NC| 10.20.11 @ 8:45AM
Mr. Orlet...be glad your son doesn't want to go to Duke. It costs only about $100K a year, and they have about $25B in endowments set aside.
The more the government is involved the higher costs will run...and 4 more years of Obama will make us all poor...in more ways than one.
Bruce Berger| 10.20.11 @ 9:31PM
Nancy,
College education is indeed expensive, but how do you get 100K per year out of this?
http://www.admissions.duke.edu.....tionID=526 &iCategoryID=0
JimH| 10.20.11 @ 8:46AM
Unfortunately even getting in the door for an interview for even the lowest level white collar job requires at least a BA these days. This is partly because HR departments use credentials rather than judgment when hiring so as to avoid any appearance of discrimination. It’s a sad fact that many in college would be far happier and more productive if they learned a trade or some marketable skill rather than wasting 4 plus years in college. Opportunities for this path grow fewer as there are increasing restrictions on apprenticeships and OJT type learning. This, and the fact that kids and their parents are constantly told of the importance of an education which is equated with going to college.
Chris' Wife| 10.20.11 @ 9:07AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrPGoPFRUdc
Whoops, here's the link.
Anthony| 10.20.11 @ 9:15AM
One of the biggest cons going has been the cozy relationship between the Ds in congress and higher education.
One branch of leftist corruption supporting another.
There is no reason college tuition should rise an average of 4% a year, but as stated by Mr. Orlet, this is a function of how government has interfered with the market.
Higher education's pampered faculty and administrations have responded to this largess by acting as chief proponents of leftist agitprop, hence the current condition of corruption on America's campuses.
I agree with Mr. Orlet and the OWS crowd on this one as well, higher education needs a good enema.
Petronius| 10.20.11 @ 9:18AM
Who cares if it's free or costs a ton? So long as you get what the profs want you to think and believe instead of what you really need to know, you might as well get a class A commercial drivers license, hit the interstates and go nowhere near their conformatories.
Dick Nome| 10.20.11 @ 9:21AM
Who says a kid has to be promptly sent off to a Center of Higher Indoctrination after the completion of HS. Most of the stoonts ( a little Dogpatch lingo there.) come out knowing little about anything and think thety are entitled to something. Better they have to go to work in many cases and learn some life lessons. Get the degree later if needed in something that makes sense. Degree in Sociology, Anthropology, Feminist Lit, Black Studies and such are all BS, Too many of those skulls fiull of mush do not even know why they are there except someone told them they need to be. College is a waste if there is no purpose other than going there. Better to learn a trade. (Then again if there are no jobs, what the hell does it matter if you are an unemployed tradesman or an unemployed college graduate.)
PattyMor| 10.20.11 @ 9:29AM
No one forced them to take out the loans or go to the particular institution they chose. To the protestors, quit yer bellyaching. I have no sympathy for you.
Ron Paul has the best plan. Get rid of sereral departments, including the Dept. of Education. Its just one arm of the Marxist, Redistribution government feedting their farm team.
Mike Hawk| 10.20.11 @ 10:12AM
None of that is original to Ron Paul. Don't make it sound like it is. It would take a Conservative Congress to do it, not an oldfarte Pres with an idea.
Harry the Horrible| 10.20.11 @ 9:43AM
I'm still trying figure out this "college" business. Not everybody needs college. Not everybody is qualified for college.
IMHO, what we really need is a good system of vocational schools and apprenticeships.
Drunken Sailor| 10.20.11 @ 11:55AM
I second that Harry! Heaven forbid they learn OJT and not from some tenured liberal college professor.
Moe Blotz| 10.20.11 @ 1:26PM
Wherever sufficient population is concentrated, vocational schools abound whether they are related to a community college, secondary school, or independent. I once worked for US Steel Fairless Works and was offered apprenticeship as an electrician, millwright, or refrigeration mechanic. Government and unions killed that golden goose. My parents took me out of a vocational program in high school, training in auto mechanics, to matriculate in college and major in accounting. Now I drive a truck.
Harry the Horrible| 10.20.11 @ 2:35PM
With a little patience and husbanding, any of those three would have made you a wealthy man...
Moe Blotz| 10.20.11 @ 6:40PM
Wealth? Who needs wealth? I walk out my front door at any hour of the day, preferably an hour before or after midnight, ascend the steps of a massive Peterbilt, and enter a different world. I ride around five feet above the roadway listening to rock and roll or right wing talk radio, getting paid for it the whole time. It is not at all like work.
Buck Ofama| 10.21.11 @ 2:33AM
Beats the FVCK out of being a bean counter with a green eyeshade!
Old Blevins| 10.20.11 @ 9:50AM
Chris: Take a day trip and check out the College Of the Ozarks, a couple of miles south of Branson, MO. Nickname: "Hard Work U." In summary, 1) Students don't pay tuition, 2) Work for an education, 2) Graduate without debt, 3) Develop character, and 4) Value God and Country. Not surprisingly, the college is only able to accept a very small percentage of the applicants.
Occam's Tool| 10.20.11 @ 8:35PM
Don't forget Berea College in Kentucky, either. Very similar.
Old Blevins| 10.20.11 @ 9:50AM
Chris: Take a day trip and check out the College Of the Ozarks, a couple of miles south of Branson, MO. Nickname: "Hard Work U." In summary, 1) Students don't pay tuition, 2) Work for an education, 2) Graduate without debt, 3) Develop character, and 4) Value God and Country. Not surprisingly, the college is only able to accept a very small percentage of the applicants.
Dixie Pixie| 10.20.11 @ 10:01AM
It is really very simple.
In any finite system where the inputs, outputs and capabilities of that system are limited in numbers,
any increase in money injected into that system will only result in an increase in costs to consume that money.
It has long been a folly of Keynesian thought that an increase in money injected into a social system will result in an increase in output.
It never happens as most social systems are operating at full capacity and can not be easily expanded by physical limitations.
So any increase in money imputed will only make the services rendered more expensive.
Bureaucrats, aristocrats and academicians love this effect as it means more money for the same amount of work.
So is it any wonder they work very hard at gathering in as much money as possible and obscuring that the results of their more expensive services is the decline of the quality / price ratio.
Thus, (more money) = (worse services)
Human greed is universal and constant wherever humans are a component part of any social system.
fungoking| 10.20.11 @ 10:26AM
My daughter is at C of O, trying to get my 8th grader interested.
A federal tax I could support; tax on college endowments....why should taxpayers give aid to students at a school with billions in the bank?
Chicago alum| 10.20.11 @ 10:47AM
Have been through this process 4 times with our youngest child providing the most challenge. He was accepted at Ivies, near Ivies and his parents' alma mater, U of Chicago . However, he also applied to our state school, was accepted into the honors college and was offered a package that paid him to attend the university, covering room, board, tuition, study abroad, books, etc. in addition to providing him his own counselor. His final two choices were Chicago and the state school. Although we feel a pang that he didn't choose Chicago, his explanation that our "contribution" would be better spent toward graduate school was compelling. The fact is that you can get a superior/excellent education at most universities if you are willing to search for the master teachers. Likewise you can spend 4 years wasting time and money at any institution. It's up to the student. As for "free" education, or forgiving the loans....wonder how those who avoided loans by going part time and working are going to feel about having to pick up the costs of the free loaders.
Ned| 10.20.11 @ 11:44AM
Just finished coughing up $18K per year to put our youngest through the University of Washington (affectionately known as the "UDumb") - there were 14% tuition hikes the last two years, followed by 24% more THIS year -which we avoided by having him actually get a four year degree in *four years* (imagine that) - making him one of fewer than 40% who does that these days.
But, we could afford it, so he comes away with no debt. The point is that you don't HAVE TO go to a specific school to get a decent education... you choose one that you can either afford, or which will provide scholarships and subsidies to make it affordable. Then you seek out the best professors and choose to take rigorous courses - not, for example, "gender studies".
I have zero sympathy for anyone coming out of college with massive debt. That just means the person is an idiot, who bought more than they can afford - and now wants to complain about the cost.
Why on earth would any sentient being dig themselves into $100K in debt in order to be a teacher earning $35K/year? Status, or ignorance? And now they want ME to pay, because THEY are stupid? I don't think so.
Stan| 10.20.11 @ 2:58PM
35k a year? Only in the most rural areas and only for a few years. In suburban CA, 10 year teachers make 50-60k for 9-10 months of work.
But your point is absolutely right.
Ed| 10.20.11 @ 11:55AM
Chicago Alum -- My Mom graduated from U of C back in the 40's, and she speaks highly of the institution.
Am Spec readers should know that the "master teachers" you talked about are very much at risk in modern academia. I had some of these master teachers at Ohio Wesleyan in the early 70's, and they were inspiring. In general, they were middle of the road liberals. However, these teachers are just about extinct because hiring and tenure decisions are based on your lefty credentials. A liberal historian like Steven E. Ambrose wouldn't stand a chance these days.
What is the solution? One way to get around this mess is to start a system of "charter colleges", where traditional faculty could be hired to teach rigorous academic courses. The charter colleges could use existing facilities at public universities and community colleges. I teach part time at a community college in the Cleveland area, and this institution awards a wide variety of BA and BS degrees from many different Universities in Ohio. Ohio has an electronic university library system that is amazing. You can access a Big Ten style journal library from any computer. The bottom line here is that you do not need expensive facilities to teach undergraduate courses anymore, unless you are teaching advanced science labs.
Jessica | 10.20.11 @ 11:02AM
Going to college is a choice, especially going to a nice, expensive college. We shouldn't expect anybody to make it free for us. Why in the world anybody would feel entitled to have a free college education is beyond me.
The thing about universities, however, is that they are very resourceful places. One can audit classes, use the libraries, and have access to peer groups and resourceful professors for a fraction of the price. What you pay for is the brand name of the piece of paper you get at the end. It's just like getting a $100,000 car, or the nicest watch, or sunglasses, or other such status symbols. Status symbols move us up in the world, and if that is what we want, we should be willing to not just put in the time and effort, but also the money.
If anybody is interested in actually LEARNING anything anymore for the sake of knowledge and in order to build their own portfolio, there are other much cheaper options, just one of them being the aforementioned auditing of classes. The world is full of awesome people, resources, and opportunities such as volunteering, internships, and even real-world jobs! Going to college is not the only way to get what you want in the world.
If anybody's interested, this site has tons of great information on how to give yourself an higher education: http://www.ztcollege.com/
I'm not trying to be harsh about this, I'm just suggesting we look at other options if this is such a huge frustration.
Blake| 10.20.11 @ 5:02PM
Yes!! Right on!
Slacker| 10.20.11 @ 12:08PM
Those upper middle class brats have a point -although they are too beat down by to grasp it. The system puts middle class white students into debt while providing almost free educations for the brown skinned.
The useful idiot protestors don’t grasp their role in advancing social justice. The Marists in academia devised a way to spread the wealth around in advance of it actually being accumulated. Brilliant comrades!
How precious to watch media figures nervously comment the protestors appear a bit too white and middle class. Huh?
Stan| 10.20.11 @ 3:00PM
Their not Upper Middle Class, that would be 75k-100k household income. They are certainly from Rich homes (top 15% of incomes) which is over 100k.
Ron| 10.20.11 @ 12:47PM
What I see is a lot of parents paying for the children's college...Why?
I told both of my children that they are going to pay for their own. I did not have a dime of help from my parents. I worked and went to school, used my NG pay (not benefits) to finance school.
I am sorry, but I do not need saddled with their potential debt at my age, and I am not going to use my comfortable nest egg to finance their educations.
Life is tough, and I already have imparted as much wisdom as I could upon them to prepare each of them for a tough world.
Drunken Sailor| 10.20.11 @ 2:39PM
Right on Ron!!
I told my boys both the same thing. They could get a job and work their way through school (rent free if they stayed home) study hard and get a full ride scholarship, or join the military and work to pay for your school. One is looking at NG and the other at the Air Force. I guess, seeing how I was a Navy lifer who also traveled with the Marines, they wanted something different. LOL.
Also told them I would be just as proud of them if the wanted to take vocational or trade classes and work with their hands. As long as they had a good work ethic I would be proud of them regardless.
Pat| 10.20.11 @ 12:59PM
Ever hear parents admit their kid is just an average student, or a mediocre student or maybe even a lazy, well below average student? And in a nation jam packed with superior students, it continues to amaze most Americans our kids perform so poorly when compared to the kids of other nations. But parents willing to sacrifice their personal well-being for their children are legion, generation after generation this love story stubbornly persists, everywhere, 24/7, day in, day out. Parents willing to go to the brink of bankruptcy for the kid’s college tuition, parents set aglow from a teacher’s simple praise of their offspring’s ability and parents resigned to accept continuing abuse from a self-serving educational system in the vain hope it will secure their kid’s future.
But if it’s the kid’s bright future in an uncertain world we’re striving to secure, parents should be harshly questioning the day to day efficiency of formal education. Sixteen to 18 years of education is conceptually absurd in order to land a mediocre starting position within corporate America or a government agency. Consider the useless university courses designed with the sole purpose of providing full employment for so-called educators who should themselves be performing a real job which adds a measurable value to our society. Or, the continuing propensity to include even more information within an already bloated curriculum, information which will never be effectively utilized within that kid’s future his or her parents are so concerned with. American kids can continue with this extended – and unhealthy – adolescence or be efficiently educated with the ability to start contributing to society and their own welfare by age 16, grade 10.
Joe D.| 10.20.11 @ 1:17PM
Very good Chris. My son went to a State university because we could not afford the private college he wanted to go to. He survived and so did we.
Appleby| 10.20.11 @ 1:28PM
I spent 3 years in Bible College in Tennessee, and then took a semester on board a cruise ship and graduated from Chapman University (which was Chapman College) in California so I could have a respectable name on my degree. My debt as I came out the door was about $5,500 (which was equivalent to $55,000 today). I paid it off in 10 years, during which time I followed up on my round-the-world experience by travelling to some of the countries I'd sampled and to Australia (twice) and New Zealand. No, I was not wealthy; I went to Switzerland in 1991 for a week, and the airline ticket cost me $250.00 and I stayed in Zurich with folks from a group started by hippies in the 1970s that was called Hospitality Exchange. You paid $15 a year and had your place listed and what you could offer to folks, anything from a pace on the floor to a detached cottage, and you could be selective about the people you accepted. I stayed with a doctor and his wife and their baby, and had a marvelous time; two weeks after I got home, I went to New Zealand. Meanwhile back at the ranch, I worked in a typing pool, in a newspaper graphics department, for the education board and finally for lawyers, and lived in plain digs with second and third-hand everything. It can still be done today -- in fact it can be done much more easily today, because I did it all without the internet.
My opinion is that the crybabies demanding "free" stuff lack the one thing that we poor but ambitious foks had back then: they lack INITIATIVE. We said to ourselves, "I want to go to France this summer. How can I do it for Practically Nothing?" (I went as a reporter for the 24 Hours of Le Mans; although they had worldwide quotas, there were never very many Canadians; I got to go six times.) The only thing they seem to know about getting what they want for Practically Nothing is hold out your hand and cry, "Gimmee!"
As Rocky the Flying Squirrel used to say, "That trick never works."
Occam's Tool| 10.20.11 @ 8:30PM
Chris: try my alma mater, TCU. It has full-tuition scholarships available for those with SATs above 1350 (not counting essay) or ACTs above 32, that he can apply for. It also has a Phi Beta Kappa chapter, and the prettiest girls in the known universe.
From there, I went to UTMB for med school, and my ultimate diploma is UCLA, one of the top 30 Universities in the world, and ranked even higher in Medicine.
If your kid is planning on graduate school, he should keep in mind that UNDERGRAD is much less important than GRAD. I don't generally discuss the fact that I did undergrad at TCU with patients when they ask me about my training and experience; what they want to know is where did I get my medical and specialty education. And in my specialty education, my diploma reads UCLA.
Also--- a point to keep in mind is that Norman Borlaug attended U of Minnesota; Linus Pauling attended Oregon State as undergrads. It is the STUDENT, not the school, that ultimately matters if the school is good enough. And IVY doesn't necessarily mean top in graduate areas---for example, Brown University School of Medicine is solid, but Mayo Clinic in Rochester is superior. And in Psychiatry, UCLA tops both of them.
Occam's Tool| 10.20.11 @ 8:36PM
Oh, forgot something---I had that full tuition Chancellor's Scholarship and held it for all four years. Got accepted to two US med schools.
Buck Ofama| 10.21.11 @ 2:48AM
Dearest Most Holy Medical God on High, please do further bless us groveling unwashed peons with fanciful tales of thy lofty conceit, for thy humble subjects knoweth full well that we mightest nought aspire to thy most supreme hubris.
Thou art truly blessed with a surfeit of dung, O Most High Medical God!
Have a nice day admiring thyself.
cicero| 10.20.11 @ 1:33PM
Half of all students ar below average.
I would suggest that all students wait for at least 2 years after higs school before starting college. During those two years, they should have to work at some sort of job - private sector. Having raised 5, I know from whence I speak.
Debt expands to meet the money allotted to it. The more money government throws at colleges, the more expensive the cost of college. When I went, I was able to work my own way through. The kids cannot do that today, because they can't earn enough to pay the outrageous costs.
When I hear of parents talking about spending themselves into penury to sent a child (and a not mature one at that) to an unsupervised environement, I question their sanity. One of mine graduated with honors from a pretty good private school. He went right on to a State college. After 2 semesters of non-achievement, I told him to get a job, as I wasn't paying for the nonsence. Making cinder blocks and working in a hazmat suit in August was a wonderful teaching moment. After that, he got a job doing something he enjoyed, paid for his own way, and still workes for the company (national retail co.) that hired him while he was in college.
Buck Ofama| 10.21.11 @ 2:40AM
>Making cinder blocks and working in a hazmat suit in August was a wonderful teaching moment.
By 22 yrs old, I'd had suffered enough shit jobs, sense of going nowhere, and low self-esteem that I finally got seriously motivated to try college.
One of my professors would sometimes stand before the class, slap himself on the face and recite "pain is a wonderful teacher."
TRUTH.
Stan| 10.20.11 @ 3:03PM
Let's face it, it's also the addition of a whole lot of "required" junk too. Countless departments for Gender equity, racial this or that, whole buildings for political correctness. Plus, like businesses, they are also subject to the same overbearing Federal and State regulations for employment, construction, safety, etc.
USMC (Ret)| 10.20.11 @ 5:05PM
Want a "free" college education? The various ROTC programs (Army, Navy, Air Force) are a good start. I attended a top eastern university, graduated in 4 years with an engineering degree, and "paid for it" with a 4 year commitment as an officer in the Marine Corps. (Taxpayers got a good deal with me-I served twenty.) Of course the idiots occupying Wall Street would have to learn to shave every day, bathe regularly, and understand that they are not the center of the universe. Their continued presence makes me wish we still had a draft. Want a job-enlist! but I doubt most of them could make it through today's basic training, much less the one I went through. Surviving on the battlefield is out of the question for them.
SGT Baker (Native Coloradean)| 10.21.11 @ 1:40AM
Personally I think they should bring back mandatory service. Just think, all those protestors would be too busy to be there agitating for causes they do not even understand...
Trend Digital | 10.20.11 @ 9:59PM
very interesting.., nice info :)
POST American| 10.20.11 @ 11:30PM
-----BTW
----------how are all those 3 decades of MBA
graduates 'helping' us in this, the 11th hour
of POST America?
"Understand, this is the takedown of America.
The Globalists have been gearing up
for this for 15 years."
-ALEX JONES
(yesterday)
----SO---- as ever
Keep a goin' kiddies
------------Keep a goin'
-----------------Trump dumps n' Oprah hope
---------------------Just keep a goin'
D Roamer | 10.21.11 @ 2:01AM
I know many that have done well with trade school education versus those that have gone the college path with a liberal arts major, just to get through to come out with a degree. Those degrees today are fine if you are going on to masters and plan to teach, but worthless if you are seeking employment. A employer is going to ask himself, what can this college grad do for me and my company?
I believe many of our youths should get a term in the military right after high school before they start any further school. The best education bar none.
Go to college if your bright and go for the sciences, such as microbiology, chemistry, engineering and medical disciplines.
Just a thought.
Jon Wade | 10.21.11 @ 3:40PM
There was a time in the UK when it was practically free - a student grant would cover tuition and accommodation. People used to go to university and leave without any debts. Governments need to decide where to invest their money. I guess the current problem is that there is no money and the economy is going down the drain. Why pay to train engineers when your car factories and shipping yards are being closed?
Aristophanes| 10.22.11 @ 5:16AM
Learn to think
www.thomasaquinas.edu
Potty Training | 10.22.11 @ 9:08AM
Yep! Spot on.
Audace| 10.22.11 @ 9:24AM
In Germany it is still practically free -- a university education. Now a student might have to contribute about $1,000 each semester but no more.
This is why one finds career students aged 31 and 33 still finishing their baccalaureat degrees.
There is no aknowledgement or appreciation that this education is being obtained on the backs of the taxpayers. No gratitude at all.
Think about it. A student aged 30 is still completing his economics degree. Simultaneously his peers that he grew up with in the neighborhood have already put in a decade of labor, making a living wage and paying taxes.