The American Spectator : Cain the Contender

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Cain the Contender

By Robert Stacy McCain on 10.19.11 @ 6:10AM

The Vegas debate marks a turning point in the campaign.

LAS VEGAS, Nevada — Scores of reporters and dozens of cameras surrounded the candidate in the “spin room” here at the Sands Expo and Convention Center following Tuesday night’s CNN Republican presidential debate. “Mr. Cain! Mr. Cain!” reporters shouted, shoving their microphones toward the man who was never expected to become a serious contender for the GOP nomination. If nothing else, the Las Vegas debate confirmed that Atlanta businessman Herman Cain is indeed now a contender.

The two-hour televised debate, moderated by CNN’s Anderson Cooper, began with a question about taxes that the candidates interpreted as a call to attack Cain’s now-famous “9-9-9” tax plan. “If we give Congress a 9 percent sales tax, how long will it take a liberal president and a liberal Congress to run that up to maybe 90 percent?” Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann asked. Cooper then cited “a lot of prominent conservatives” as authorities for his assertion that Cain’s plan would raise taxes on middle- and lower-income Americans.

“The thing that I would encourage people to do before they engage in this knee-jerk reaction is read our analysis,” Cain said, providing the address of his campaign website, and denying the accusations made against his plan, which would replace the current tax code with 9 percent flat taxes on personal income, sales and corporate earnings. After Cain finished, Cooper next turned to former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum, whom I’ve called a “brutal counter-puncher in debates,” and Santorum came out swinging.

“Herman’s well-meaning, and I love his boldness, and it’s great,” Santorum said, “but the fact of the matter is, I mean, reports are now out that 84 percent of Americans would pay more taxes under his plan. That’s the analysis.”

Texas Gov. Rick Perry got his turn next. “Herman, I love you, brother, but let me tell you something, you don’t need to have a big analysis to figure this thing out,” said Perry, who was obviously eager to recapture momentum after performing poorly in previous debates. “Go to New Hampshire, where they don’t have a sales tax, and you’re fixing to give them one.”

Cain responded to that, and also to Bachmann’s assertion that 9-9-9 constitutes a “value added tax,” by saying that his opponents were trying to confuse voters by “mixing apples and oranges. The state tax is an apple. We are replacing the current tax code with oranges.” Cooper then invited Texas Rep. Ron Paul to elaborate on his own description of Cain’s plan as “dangerous,” before turning to Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, the longtime GOP front-runner who is now in a virtual dead heat with Cain, according to the influential Real Clear Politics average of national polls. Romney turned Cain’s figure of speech against him by saying, “I’m going to be getting a bushel basket that has apples and oranges in it because I’ve got to pay both taxes, and the people in Nevada don’t want to pay both taxes.”

The crowd applauded and cheered, but Romney also praised Cain’s “chutzpah” in proposing such a bold reform, and when former House Speaker Newt Gingrich got his turn, he said, “First of all, I think that Herman Cain deserves a lot of credit. He has had the courage to go out and take a specific very big idea at the right level.” With such remarks, Romney and Gingrich acknowledged Cain’s legitimacy as a candidate — a point his campaign has fought hard to establish — and one whose stunning ascent since winning last month’s Florida straw poll has transformed the 2012 Republican campaign. Whatever damage Cain suffered from the criticism directed at him during the debate, it will likely be remembered as the moment when the Tea Party-backed candidate (who has often made wry jokes about being the “dark horse” of the GOP field) became a contender that his rivals must take seriously.

Meanwhile, most observers at Tuesday’s event agreed that Perry finally had a fairly decent debate performance, although it may have come too late to help the Texas governor recover the front-runner status he lost during three debates in September. Afterwards, one of Romney’s advisers, Ron Kaufman, joked to Slate’s Dave Weigel: “Perry was awake. I’ll give him that.”

Perry sought to score points against Romney during the debate by recycling a five-year-old Boston Globe story that the former Massachusetts governor had hired a lawn-care company that employed illegal immigrants. The attack appeared to miss its mark, but sparked what Cooper later called “fireworks,” as Perry and Romney had a testy exchange. It gave Romney a chance to deliver a put-down: “”It’s been a couple of tough debates for Rick, and I understand that. So you’re going to get testy.” Santorum also got in some sharp blows against Romney who, as Alexander Burns of Politico said, “was thrown off balance for the first time in the 2012 race.” So the takeaway from Tuesday could be this: Perry halted his slide, Santorum forcefully presented himself as a defender of family values — a message pitched to his supporters in Iowa, where he has campaigned relentlessly — and Romney got slightly rattled.

The biggest story of the night, however, was that a candidate long dismissed by political pundits as a hopeless long shot has now become the focus of the Republican campaign. Ten weeks ago, when I followed Herman Cain around to campaign events during his bus tour of Iowa, there were rarely more than two or three local reporters covering him at each stop. When he arrived in the “spin room” in the basement of the Sands Expo Center last night, he was instantly swarmed by camera crews and reporters representing dozens of news agencies from around the world. The pundits must now recalculate their estimates of Cain, the contender.

About the Author

Robert Stacy McCain is co-author (with Lynn Vincent) of Donkey Cons: Sex, Crime, and Corruption in the Democratic Party (Nelson Current). He blogs at The Other McCain.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (427) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Gary B| 10.19.11 @ 6:21AM

Gingrich was right about Cain. Can't wait to hear the GOP Establishment's snide remarks about Cain now.

As stated before, Romney is the only candidate Obama can beat. But, either one is just fine with the government class.

Jack in Wi.| 10.19.11 @ 6:48AM

Cain is done. 999 was just a plan cooked up in the bowels of the Federal Reserve to finance endless wars and endless bailouts. The winner of the debate was as usual Ron Paul, the only adult on stage. He has an actual plan to cut a trillion dollars in one year without raising taxes. Herman Cain is an amiable dunce who has proved that he knows nothing of History, Economics, Geography, Foreign Policy or managing anything but a pizza parlour. He was destroyed by most everone on stage. How do you think he would handle the Obama attack machine. The only candidate who will change anything for the better is Ron Paul. He has the organization. He has money. He is No1 in the Iowa power rankings. It is Ron Paul or ruin.

Doctor Right| 10.19.11 @ 7:42AM

Then it's "ruin", 'cuz Ron Paul ain't gonna be the nominee.

Ron Paul = 5%.

And when he gets audibly booed for saying that there are no threats to our security in Afghanistan, or that Iran is not a threat because they don't gave ICBMs, he sounds like a complete fool.

Of course you think Paul "won the debate". You would think that if he did nothing but stand there and sing "Purple People Eater", which given his nutty view of foreign policy is not that far-fetched.

I hope you have access to counseling after Paul loses...again.

chuck| 10.19.11 @ 7:51AM

I think at times Ron Paul would come off as more lucid if he did stand there and sing Purple People Eater.
Jack, when your guy gets booed, and there is little or no applause for most of his comments..... he ain't winning the debate!

Jack in Wi.| 10.19.11 @ 11:56AM

Ron Paul draws bigger crowds and gets more applause then any other candidate. Herman Cain is this months flavor of the month. Last month it was Rick Perry. Next month it is Newt Gingrich. At least Newt is intelligent and knows some history, geography, and economics. It is too bad he is a hopless shill for Israel and has the personal morals of a snake.

Dan Hirsch| 10.19.11 @ 12:02PM

Are you saying that Newt needs to drink more beer, cause he's hopless?

Jack in Wi.| 10.19.11 @ 12:10PM

Newt does not need anymore beer. He is a big fat slob. When you have no answer to anything. Start picking on spelling and typing mistakes.

Jack in Wi.| 10.19.11 @ 12:07PM

999 was cooked up in the Federal Reserve, by an old pal of Cain's. It would finally give the big government Neocons their national sales tax so that all their wars and bailouts could be funded. Santorum ws right about 84% of people would pay more taxes. 9% in income taxes instead of the FICA tax would be an incrase to 50% of Americans. The 9% sales tax would be a curse on the elderly and middle class. All this can be avoided by just getting out of our wars, bringing the troops home, cutting foreign aid and and slashing government spending. Ron Paul is the only one with such a plan. Herman Cain wants endless wars TARP and other endless bailouts, no audit of the FED, and can't name one program he would eliminate.

Redstateboy| 10.19.11 @ 12:21PM

Jack in WI and Clint.. the 2 regular Paulbots here are sooooooo... tiresome.

Paul'll make a great Treasury Secretary.. Now get over him Ever being President of These United States. You supporters of his turn people off.

Occam's Tool| 10.19.11 @ 1:04PM

Tiresome is an excellent word, redstate. You, on the other hand, are fun to listen to, as our most of the posters.

So, Dr Right, since we have established that Paul is the Tinfoil hat candidate, who do you really like, and why? Margie likes Cain (I like him or Santorum best, but Cain is more electable and probably smarter), and has explained her reasoning well. I think you like Cain, as well, but is there anyone else who has a chance that you like? (Poor Michele doesn't seem to have a chance anymore. Pity.) You know how I respect your opinion.

Doctor Right| 10.19.11 @ 3:23PM

If I could wave my magic wand and make him the front-runner, then it would be Santorum. He's my personal favorite, but I don't think he's got a real chance.

I also like Michelle Bachman a lot. The lady is smart, and she knows in what direction the slime flows in DC. She's substantively right on EVERY issue.

I'm done with Perry. The guy just looks lost up there, and his Texas Dream-Act and immigration record is just not good. And he made an ass of himself last night by going after Romney's lawn-mowing service.

Paul? Never. He's too kooky.

Huntsman. ONLY if he was the nominee. Ditto Romney.

So for me, it's Cain. I like Herman. he's smart, self-made, and honest. And I like 9-9-9, too. Cain is the only one to TRULY discuss ditching the current tax-code, and he deserves credit for that.

I'm constantly amazed at those who STILL consider Romney the frontrunner.

Cain is leading in most national polls! In addition, millions simply WON'T vote for Romney in the general election.

When Perry drops out, his supporters will go to Cain, NOT Romney. Cain is also the natural place for Bachman and Santorum's supporters. They only bring about 4-5% extra, but it all helps.

Yup.

Cain.

Trish| 10.19.11 @ 3:35PM

Yup Cain.

Redstateboy| 10.19.11 @ 4:49PM

... Rick Santorum - I'm sure he's a nice guy but I just can't shake the image of him being like... your squeeky clean cousin, who always got good grades but his Mom, your Aunt, would always see to it that he was dressed in Geeky clothes, like Bermuda shorts with button-down short sleeve shirts playing his Acordian for the family while the rest of us were playing football in the street. In one Debate - He was actually squinting this weird geeky squint - it's then that it all came to me.

Redstateboy| 10.19.11 @ 4:37PM

Hey Doc?? Nyet on Newt? He didn't even get a mention from you and I agree with you on Perry. He looked almost half crazed when going after the Rom for his lawn service (who the F! is coaching Perry) - Michelle? too bad is right.. She went waaaay overboard on Perry's Vacination deal to the point where she really started to sound "witchy" and obsessed about it - there was an opt out.. So it's Cain for me. I watched the very first debate and kept yelling to my roomy: "Dude?!! who's this Cain guy!?!??" So not only do I like Herman, I'm redirecting my cash from Perry to Cain. Money talks, BS walks.

blackwatch| 10.20.11 @ 10:19PM

they are why the scroll button was installed on the mouse.

Raising Cain| 10.20.11 @ 12:01AM

Paul wasn't getting the largest applause last night. There's a difference in the rise of Perry and Cain. Cain has built a rise out of nothing. Perry came in with high expectations from Republicans and he couldn't deliver.

Jack in Wi.| 10.20.11 @ 6:58AM

Cain is a media sensation. He was puffed to split the Conservative vote. No big bankster, big war forever Republican can win. The independents will never vote for such a slug. Independents are now more then a third of the eletorate.

With regrets to the late, great Sam Cooke, Herman Cain's theme song is. Don't know nothing about history. Don't know nothing about biology [ abortion] Don't know nothing about geography. Don't know nothing about economics. Don't know nothing about foreign policy. Therefore I should be President because the last 3 presidents didn't know nothing either.

Purpleguy| 10.19.11 @ 10:33PM

Either way, Cain is delusional... and needs to go back to making money off the backs of pizza boys...

Dan Mathewson| 10.20.11 @ 3:22AM

I think Jack is POST American.

chuck| 10.19.11 @ 7:54AM

The question needs to be turned around, and I want everyone who is critical of 9-9-9 to consider this:

If we had 9-9-9 currently, would you favor replacing it with the current 40,000 page tax code?

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 8:06AM

Now, There's A Fantasy Hobson's Choice.

chuck| 10.19.11 @ 8:10AM

Answer the question Clint!

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 8:25AM

No National Sales, Cut The Income Tax, Cut Big Government Deficit Spending.

9-9-9 Is A Shuck & Jive Non-Starter.

No Real Conservative Would Ever Allow Big Government To Have A National Sales Tax & An Income Tax.

You've Answered The Question.

You're No Real Conservative, Sport.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

chuck| 10.19.11 @ 8:27AM

So I'm guessing that means you'd go with the 40,000 pages of the current tax code.

Okay.........

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 8:34AM

Read what I said, RINO-CINO PropagandaBoy.

Dr. Ron Paul suggests a 10% flat “tax” in order to opt-out of all federal programs and be left alone.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 9:40AM

But have you read the analysis on www.hermancain.com?

The 9% sales tax more than pays for itself via the elimination of the 15% FICA payroll tax.

Not to mention the Hidden taxes in goods and services you buy every day. Cost of goods manufactured will go down, therefore prices of everything will go down.

Did you know there is a 25% tax on gasoline you buy? And that doesn't include the Corporate taxes already built in to the product before it reaches the gas station.

But god forbid, whatever you do, don't read the analysis on hermancain.com, just buy into the bumper-sticker talking points of his opponents.

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 10:08AM

http://www.hermancain.com/999plan

Pretty simple.

Doctor Right| 10.19.11 @ 9:56AM

He can't.

He needs to check his "Robo-Post" list from Ron Paul HQ first...

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 10:05AM

But, but... its a "non-starter"..

Occam's Tool| 10.19.11 @ 1:05PM

Aaaaand have someone change his pooh pooh diapers---you forgot that Dr R...;)

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 7:07PM

Screwball Israel Firster Fanatic,Tool Job Talking Shit Again.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 8:22AM

Fantasy, shmantasy...

As Chuck points out with his socratic question, somehow we are stuck with the stupid, useless, nobody-but-suckers-and-rubes-pick-that-one option of a Hobson's choice.

Maybe, Mr. Cain does point us to an exit from the land of suckers and rubes.

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 8:28AM

Apparently, Mr.Cain Is Going Out the Exit Door With His book Money.
9-9-9 Is A Non-Starter.

No Real Conservative Would Ever Allow Big Government To Have A National Sales Tax & An Income Tax.

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 9:41AM

No conservative would have allowed a 40,000 page tax code either, but we already have it, jack.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 9:47AM

Unless he was trying to not influence the market for labor, savings, and investment...

Doctor Right| 10.19.11 @ 9:56AM

Ron Paul = 5%

Occam's Tool| 10.19.11 @ 1:06PM

Funny how he's kicking your candidate's ass, Clint...

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 2:41PM

Since Clinty-poo lies for a living, who cares what he says?
No substance there, pure deceit.
Herman Cain on the other hand is a genuine conservative, who thinks he can get America back to work, and has a plan. He will fine tune it and will win.

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 7:12PM

The Slandering Liar RINO-CINO Big Yellow Margie Bus Calls The Lemon Pie Yellow.

Cain's 9-9-9 Is Being Exposed By All The Other Candidates As A Non-Starter.

Real Conservatives Will Not Allow Big Government To Have A National Sales Tax & An Income Tax.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

How Did You Get So Damned Screwed Up ?

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 8:00PM

I'm screwed up? Heh, that may be because I'm a sinner but saved by Grace.
What's your excuse, punk?

Liars go to Hell, along with the rest of the wicked.. those who are wicked intentionally.

Your disgusting and despicable modus operandi is to try and destroy ALL genuine conservatives here, and ESPECIALLY Bible believing Christians, by constant lying about their characters.

Your "reward" will be so swift that you will not see it coming:

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second Death." Rev. 21:8.

"Behold, I am coming soon, bringing My recompense, to repay every one for what he has done.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the Tree of Life and that they may enter the City by the Gates.
Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and every one who loves and practices falsehood." Rev. 22:12-15.

You have no fear of God in you, liar.

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 8:43PM

Lke I Said, You Are One Screwed Up Lapsed Catholic Turned Maniac Religious Bigot, Spouting Scripture To Mask Your White Trash Nasty Ass Religious Bigotry, Apocalyptic Crank Lady Margie.

See A Religious Counselor & A Shrink.

Margie| 10.20.11 @ 4:12PM

Like God says,

"A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who utters lies will not escape." Prov. 19:5.

Gary B| 10.19.11 @ 8:10AM

Very good question...

Stefan Stackhouse| 10.19.11 @ 9:26AM

This is a point. It could also be put another way: Are you so in love with the present system that you would rather keep it unchanged rather than consider alternatives? My impression is that most people very much want reform - substantial reform, not just a little tinkering around the margins. If you want change, then some people - we call them "leaders" - are going to have to put some proposals on the table that actually are a major change from the status quo. Cain's 999 plan is one such proposal. I would love to see others, and I suspect that what we end up with will merge the best of each, if we are lucky.

If we are unlucky, which seems more likely, we'll end up in paralyzed dysfunctionality, emprisoned in the status quo.

SpiralArchitect| 10.19.11 @ 6:34PM

Still amazing to me that most everyone thinks what candidates say & propose now ( ie: while campaigning) will surely be implemented & unchanged.

Hope & change... most transparent gov... reaching accross the isles...

Yes, campaign speak is always implemented & always unadjusted...right?

This is about as serious as a discussion as the 4th grade level debate on cnn last night. yuk

Purpleguy| 10.19.11 @ 10:34PM

do you know how long the original tax code was? I didn't think so... it's taken a long time for lobbyists and special interests to load up the pork ...

chuck| 10.20.11 @ 7:34AM

Way past time to simply it.

Mike Rogers | 10.19.11 @ 8:11AM

Ahhhh. An old liberal from the ancient home of progressivism!
Cain is bold, optimistic, human, and connects well with people - let's resurrect that "amiable dunce" trope from the Reagan years.
Well... Like a stopped clock, a liberal is right about twice a century - what you have spotted is the return of a the Reagan revolution - sound money and lower taxes. Indeed one of the people most excited about the 9/9/9 plan is Reagan's economic adviser - Art Laffer.
I'll bet we are about to see the resurrection of the charge "voodoo economics", as well - just remember who was right on that score - Reagan turbocharged the economy, while his accuser, HW Bush, eventually got his turn and caused a mini-recession.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 8:23AM

By forgetting to read his lips, Mr Romney.

Capice?

Gary B| 10.19.11 @ 9:14AM

Bush's New World Order crowd hated Reagan. He went over their heads to the people. Is Cain doing the same thing? Methinks he does.

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 9:42AM

You're on to something.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 9:47AM

..something good.

Occam's Tool| 10.19.11 @ 1:07PM

Yeahhhhhh.... (with apologies to Chaka Khan and Rufus)

Purpleguy| 10.19.11 @ 10:35PM

Ha ... yeah, of the far right

C.K. Amos| 10.19.11 @ 10:50AM

"Cain is done"? Oh, please And Ron Paul the only adult on the stage? Double "Oh, please!"

Timothy L. Pennell| 10.19.11 @ 10:09AM

Will you people PLEASE stop responding to IDIOT from Wisconsin.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 11:41AM

Aw c'mon, it's so much fun!!! He's so cute the way he always snarls exactly the same stuff!!! Time after time after time...it's like hitting your knee with that little hammer and watching your leg jump, you just can't stop!!!

Occam's Tool| 10.19.11 @ 1:07PM

DTOM:

correct again, sir.

emilio lizardo, PhD| 10.19.11 @ 10:13AM

Word. Romney is the only GOP contender Obama can beat. Truer words have never been spoken in this campaign. And no, I dont think Bachmann, Santorum and Huntsman are actual contenders

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 10:51AM

Gosh, emilio, your insight on Bachmann, Santorum, and Huntsman was astonishingly brilliant.

PhD's are always so brilliant and right about things. That's why we should listen to you, right?

All of the above is in AS new sarcasm font.
Now for reality:

As brilliant as Rino Romney, Mr. ObamaLite, is, he is the only candidate who will lose to Obama in 2012. The leftish moderates will agree that we haven't tried socialism hard enough - Romney would seem to go left but not far enough for them-they'll vote Obama. The rightish moderates would vote for Romney, but far more most of the Tea Party would just stay home because they know that it really is ORomneyCare. They remember Bush1's lying lips. Romney would triangulate himself into vetoing the repeal of O'RomneyCare when the MSM starts screaming after it passes the House.
The man is too damn vain! Look at his stupid hair! It's right there in front of you! Voila! The Democrats steal another march towards socialist hell!

Do you not remember how effectively John McCain, that noted aisle-crosser, that famous compromiser, the brilliant-NOT moderate got his ass handed to him in '08?

Are you stupid? Were you in a coma? Are you drunk? Wake up, smell coffee, PLEASE!

PS John McCain's finest hours, all 44,000 of them were spent in Viet Nam. I revere him for his bravery, his courage, and his patriotism. But that mother does not have a lick of sense, not one single lick! It is what it is.

Occam's Tool| 10.19.11 @ 1:12PM

DTOM---Emilio Lizardo was Dr. Lizardo, the evil crazed scientist from the movie Buckaroo Banzai, Adventures Across the 8th Dimension. Peter Weller was the star, Lithgow played the mad scientist---quite a fun film.

I like Cain, by the way. Who do you favor most, and why?

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 1:51PM

Cainiac over here.

1. Man is clearly conservative in his bones.

2. 2012 watch word is going to be "authenticity." Mr. Cain's authenticity is off chart compared to all other candidates, especially Obama. Authenticity will resonate with the mass of those showing up at the polls.

3. His '999' is bold, the rest of the field admitted it last night. He is changing the discussion, he's controlling the agenda. That's raw, powerful leadership.

4. Anyone who thinks that working one's way up through corporate America from the sharecropper's hut is easy does not know the sharecropper's hut or corporate America. Mr. Cain has traversed the entirety of our society and can work with anybody.

5. He's taken disastrous operations and turned them around by winning back workers' and customers' confidence.

Other than that can't think of a thing.

Except the fence, the no Muslims in my Cabinet, no death panels...

And maybe, just maybe, electing two black Presidents in a row would shut up the racists Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson Sr. and Jr.

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 4:22PM

That was one strange movie OT.

blackwatch| 10.20.11 @ 10:27PM

got my "Blue Blazer" on...ready for the alert...

irish19| 10.19.11 @ 5:30PM

"Romney is the only GOP contender Obama can beat."
From EL above. Friendly fire!!
"As brilliant as Rino Romney, Mr. ObamaLite, is, he is the only candidate who will lose to Obama in 2012. "
From your post.
You both seem to agree.

Purpleguy| 10.19.11 @ 10:38PM

Might as well get used to it .. Obama will win re-election. The R party is in disarray, can't agree on a strategy, and are destined to lose.

holeflapper| 10.19.11 @ 11:08PM

Actually, discussion is good. Its good for the country to listen to the alternatives. I'm spouting a talking point here, but something big has to happen, cause it ain't happening with the current selection of prez. Herman Cain is the first and so far the only one to even suggest something bold. All the others are just tinkering with the margins. I do like the Paul slash and burn the cabinet. That would be great, as far as the other nut job crap of dismantling the military. No bueno. Newt is a much smarter version of Paul with out the nuts. And BTW, more than half the country would vote for a soap dish over Obama, as long as it had an R by the name. The enthusiasm gap, Grand Canyon super-size. Purple. You better look for a different color. White, yeah, as in surrender-bowing bozo in the White House.

Jack in Wi.| 10.19.11 @ 11:45AM

Old Herman has his supporters here I guess. Most of them were for Rick Perry a few weeks ago. I will say one thing about Perry. At least he ran more then a Pizza stand. Herman was a one year affirmative action pick for the Kansas City Federal Reserve. That makes him a great banker.

Herman knows nothing about foreign policy but will depend on advisers to tell him what to do. Herman knows nothing of economics but will let the Federal Reserve advise him. Herman knows nothing about geography. But will have advisers tell him where Uzbekistan is. Herman has no idea what a Neocon is. I saw him say so in an interview. Herman a neocon is someone who thinks Israel is far more important then the intrests of the USA. That makes you a neocon Herm. Herman wants to attack Iran just like all the other people on stage but one. That doesn't bother Herman that such an illegal and immoral war would destroy what litttle is left of the world economy.

The British Defense Minister Dr. Liam Fox and his boyfriend have just been outed as Mossad moles pushing for war with Iran. It is a huge scandel in England, but is being completly ignored by our controlled press. How many people who are pushing for an attack on Iran , like Cain, Gingrich, Romney, Bachman, Santorum are Mossad moles as well?

Now Herm is a Baptist minister like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. He like them, cares little about abortion or the ending of it. 3300 babies are murdered everyday in this country, one third of them black. But old Herm is more concerned with attacking and killing Iranians then in saving black babies in this country. I have said it a lot and I am saying again. No pro war, pro bankster Republican can get elected in this country. It is Ron Paul or ruin.

Occam's Tool| 10.19.11 @ 1:13PM

Actually, neocons do not think that Israel is more important than the US. They believe that the US has the best country in the world, and its values should be spred.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 2:43PM

Yup. And our allies backed, and enemies dealt with.

W| 10.19.11 @ 4:06PM

Neo-cons was the label applied to the Democrats who left the Democratic Party because of McGovern and Carter. They were the Cold Warriors who believed in the Wilsonian intervention. They want us involved in the affairs of all countries. We can't afford it and we can't have our soldiers killed in countries and wars which are not in our national interest. GWB and his advisors were all neo-cons. Obama, as evidenced by Libya and Central Africa, is a neo-con. The only difference between Obama and GWB is which country we send our money and military.

Mike D.| 10.19.11 @ 3:53PM

I checked jewwatch.com and didn't see anything about the Mossad taking over Cain, Gingrich, Romney, Bachman, Santorum so they must be cool!

Mr ED| 10.19.11 @ 6:29AM

The more I hear and see of Cain the more I like him.

I also believe Perry is being actively promoted by more than a few in the conservative press (talking heads in particular) in an all-out attempt to prevent Perrys campaign from collapsing and his supporters going over to Cain, which might be the beginning of the end for Romney.

I don't expect Cain to ever get a fair shake from either hard-Left Big Media or the Slight-Right conservative media, but Cain just continuing to be who he really is might, if we're lucky, be enough for the average voter to dismiss the pundicRATs on both sides and elect the new Reagan. No wonder the Slight-Right Ruling Class wants to destroy him.

Mike Rogers | 10.19.11 @ 8:20AM

Perry may be propped up by the media and ruling class as their choice for "anti-Romney", but his bubble is losing air, and even last night, he came out swinging with old or marginally correct "facts", and was not able to press his advantage. Meanwhile, Romney continues to play last man standing, Cain gains support, Gingrich gradually improves his stature, and the rest are just plain annoying.
Santorum looks more and more like a petulant schoolboy and won't even earn a veep position this way.
Bachmann needs to take her fingernails off the chalkboard and go back to congress.
Ron Paul won't quit, but he can't tell the difference between admiring acolytes and an actual chance at election.

Redstateboy| 10.19.11 @ 10:02AM

Perry is Terrible on the attack. I watched the debate - Perry was great when he actively advocated who he would get this economy growing. Rick?? Forget going after Romney Rick.. it's not in you.

buckeyeman| 10.19.11 @ 11:02AM

A lawn care company did some work on my lawn this week. According to Perry I am responsible for vetting their employees. Coming a hair's breadth from calling Romney a liar on this issue is absurd. Who is advising Perry to pursue this shameful attack strategy? Why is he so stupid as to follow such advice? I like Perry's conservatism but he is toast. I'm warming up to Cain's 9-9-9 plan but he did a HORRIBLE job explaining it last night. I think we're going to be stuck with Romney. He will eat the Bamster's lunch, including the arugula. Why anyone thinks the mystery Kenyan could beat Romney is beyond me.

Redstateboy| 10.19.11 @ 12:27PM

buckeyeman.. I've been saying for many weeks now.. Perry is being terribly ill-served by whomever is advising him. He was made to look silly in his attack on Romney because it was a silly premise and so easily refutable.

Mike A Loeb| 10.19.11 @ 12:34PM

You are spot on with your analysis of the field.
Santorum's and Bachman's nasty attacks on fellow GOP candidates are getting old. I wish both would go away.

Mimi| 10.19.11 @ 8:39AM

Where did you get the name "SLIGHT-RIGHT " ?
Does that mean a RIGHT that is ' iffy- annie- or butty' ?
Is it the Whole truth ? or the maybe somewhat truth?

Mr ED| 10.19.11 @ 8:55AM

The Slight-Right is actually defined by the hard Left - They are just conservative enough to portray themselves as more conservative than the Left and nothing more. When the Left moves further to the left, the Slight-Righties tack with them, staying just to the port side of actual Liberalism. Its all part of the cynical calculated RINO premise that says they can stay in power - doling out the goodies to themselves and their crony accomplices - by just sticking to the formula.

In my estimation thats how and why we get stuck with so many RINO presidential candidates, like McCain last time. No more lesser-of-two-evils for me, thanks.

Vern Crisler | 10.19.11 @ 9:01AM

Jonah Goldberg pointed out that the fascists were leftists who were just to the right of the even farther left. Because of that, they were labeled rightwing. Go figure. Same thing with RINOs; they're leftists who are just slightly to the right of the far left, which allows the moron media to label them as "conservatives." Go figure again.....

Stefan Stackhouse| 10.19.11 @ 9:29AM

Yes, remember that it is quite common to hear among these leftist loons that the NY Times is a right-wing corporatist newspaper. I guess the political spectrum can stretch all the way out almost to infinity.

scotchieguy| 10.19.11 @ 10:01AM

Then, there are far left lefties who think Obama is too conservative. Now, that is way, way left.

TrueBlue| 10.19.11 @ 10:58AM

Sadly I have friends who are like this. Perfectly reasonable people when it comes to getting a job done, but go into anything political and you may as well just buy earplugs.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 10:03AM

But the simple fact is that someone to the right of you is "right" of your position. This is no trick, it's just reality.

But it does illuminate the difficulty in dealing with the unprincipled. If you have no immutable core beliefs, no core principles, you can always slosh your way left over to a position slightly to the right of your opponent, Barack Obama, and then spit at him from there, Mitt Romney.

It's not really a ploy - it's just how things work. Until we can come up with a method of measuring one's absolute position as a conservative.

Like ACU ratings. Which gives Speaker Boehner a 100 for 2010. So that's obviously NOT working...

TrueBlue| 10.19.11 @ 10:59AM

I prefer to just look at their voting record.

http://www.votesmart.org/index.htm

oldfart| 10.19.11 @ 8:40AM

What is wrong about asking people who now pay nothing to the Federal Govt to pay? This includes all the illegals, foreign visitors etc. Are people aware that if you vacation to most other countries in the world you pay taxes. Why not here!!!! Also the beauty of this plan is the simplicity. The average person can understand it. How many people out there now depend on Turbo Tax or H&R Block to do their taxes because the tax code looks like it was invented by the three witches from Macbeth. Also a person can directly influence their tax load by adjusting their consumption. By the very nature of the plan those with less disposable income will pay less tax. The down side is that a lot of professional tax preparers and IRS agents will become unemployed.

Stefan Stackhouse| 10.19.11 @ 9:33AM

This is the thing. We've gotten totally away in our national rhetoric from the formerly common concept of republican virtues and the responsibilities of citizenship. A polity is more likely to retain individual liberties when everyone shoulders their fair share of citizenship responsibilities. It is when the masses want to enjoy a free ride at the expense of the few that you are at the last way station before a descent into tyranny.

Vern Crisler | 10.19.11 @ 8:48AM

Couldn't agree more Mr. Ed. Cain (and Newt) were the most "presidential" during the debate. I got bored with the Romney-Perry show pretty quickly. Michelle came across as lackluster and called a sales tax a value added tax, which it is not. Santorum was good on offense, but can't really communicate his own positive views in a way that's compelling. Because the debate wasn't about foreign policy, Ron Paul at least looked sane last night. A good debate all in all, but way too much attention paid to the tiresome duo of Romney & Perry.

Mr ED| 10.19.11 @ 9:02AM

And doesn't it seem that the media - Left and Right - are doing their best to gin-up as much personal animus between the candidates just so they can serialize the drama of the horserace and drib-drab out the latest attack / counterattack?

The media does their best to reduce the race to personalities and petulance. So what if the country is in serious trouble? This silly personal stuff might even make Paris Hilton pay attention! Do whatever it takes to make more people watch, even if what they end up seeing is supercillious and trite. Disgusting.

TrueBlue| 10.19.11 @ 11:03AM

That's because that is the crowd they are part of, they have gotten so used to shouting and screaming and whining to get their way that they are no longer capable for actual discussion and debate.

Mimi| 10.19.11 @ 11:37AM

They just wasted a GOLDEN opportunity to publicize conservative thinking and give " H" to Obama! Hours of top T.V prime time to teach and inform the RIGHT LEFTY'S and the SLIGHT RIGHTY'S of the benefits of FREEDOM & LIBERTY over CONTROL!

chuck| 10.19.11 @ 9:18AM

Romney and Perry both looked like a couple of kids fighting in a sand box. Neither one came off as Presidential.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 10:07AM

Vern,

And she identifies her self as a practicing tax attorney. Bad for a candidate and bad for your tax practice...not Michelle's best moment

POST American| 10.19.11 @ 6:29AM

----------------'CAIN
--------------------the CON --TENDER'

TRUE! TRUE! TRUE!

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 8:26AM

Woo Hoo!

And now for something completely different...
Post, dude, I read you load and clear!

That shows the power of Mr. Cain-

he can make straight the obtuse.

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 9:43AM

DUDE!..... SWEET!..... DUDE!!!...... SWEET!!!...

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 10:08AM

I really did mean "loud and clear"

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 2:47PM

Post American's a Paul-bot.
Right, guy?
They despise Herman Cain.
Why?
In truth, they HATE real genuine conservatives.
Why?
Because they aren't Isolationists, and back Israel.
Just the facts, ma'am!

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 3:58PM

Margie;

Did you read Post American at 6:29 AM to be anti-Cain, in calling him a "contender?"

We don't often see cogency or intelligibility from PA. Why would you not take him at his word?

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 4:39PM

Actually, DTOM, he didn't mean it in a good way, if you've read his other posts about Herman Cain.

"CON" I think he means as CON artist.
You'll have to take a gander at his previous posts, where like a typical Paul-bot, he accuses him of conspiratorially being "Head of the FED!"
LOL.

Post American is not only a Paul-bot, but he's an Alex Jones Paul-bot.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 4:40PM

p.s.

Do you also post as "Dan?"

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 4:51PM

And I think I totally just missed the sarcasm there in your post, LOL.
Also known as [sarc].

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 8:09PM

Hmm, I see you didn't answer my question.

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 10:15AM

Does Anyone else hear the "Tales from the Crypt" theme song when they read Post-American's comments?

Just me?

ElPuma25| 10.19.11 @ 10:42AM

I've been hearing "Twilight Zone", but now that you mention it...

Dixie Pixie| 10.19.11 @ 1:58PM

...Ditto...

Drunken Sailor| 10.19.11 @ 2:13PM

"Outer Limits"

Dixie Pixie| 10.19.11 @ 3:45PM

Upon further reflection, P..A.. sounds more like the Overture to Mel Gibson's “Conspiracy Theory”.
Hear the song at ::::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

Drudge Ette Obama| 10.19.11 @ 6:33AM

What Atlantans have known for a while and what the rest of the country is learning now is that Herman Cain is gen-uuu-wine fabulous.

He has a Southern black accent - don't make the mistake that arrogant north of the Mason-Dixon liners often do - that Southern accent comes with head smarts.

I would love to see him as our nominee - what fun, with Romney as v.p. Not the other way around.

Melvin| 10.19.11 @ 7:37AM

Ditto, Drudge Ette Obama. What I really admire about Herman is, the man is sincere. When he had prostrate cancer, I emailed his web site wishing him well and a speedy recovery. I hadn't expected a reply, but about three or four months later I received a personal email from him, apologizing about the delay in responding and thanking me for my caring.
The salutation was signed Herman Cain. I know Herman wasn't a candidate then, but if a person goes to that length to email unknown people and thank them for their caring, is a candidate that we need and want right now.
Is Herman Cain the perfect candidate? No, Is Herman Cain going to say everything that people want to hear? No, on the contrary Herman will more in likely make allot of people mad, because he cares about the Country and not special interests or lobbyists.
Will Herman Cain be the Nation's Sugar Daddy? No, but Herman will make the hard decisions and explain it to us in a language that we can understand, and leadership that we can follow as a Nation.
Finally there is a candidate that has some fire in his blood, instead of the blow dried lotsa hair Armani suit wearing Republican Establishment candidate.
You are correct, Perry might be good as a VP, but he has enough of the Republican Establishment virus in him that could cause mischief for a President Cain. The Establishment Republicans could use Perry to be they're mole. I dunno I rather keep Perry on the end of a 100 ft pole, than have in in a inner Presidential circle.

chuck| 10.19.11 @ 7:58AM

I agree, but a President Cain would certainly be able to keep VP Romney on a leash. He's a former CEO for goodness sake. That and his forceful, yet humble personality would be more than enough to keep Romney straight in his consolation prize position.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 8:48AM

Chuck,

You seem to have insight into how easy and simple it is to operate within the power structure of corporate America. ("Easy and simple" are in the new AS sarcastic font!!!(Thanks, guys))

There are a couple of underappreciated aspects of Mr. Cain. Making progress in the business world is a battle, a battle from which your vanquished foes arise either to battle you again or to join your cause. A lot like politics, except you cannot fool profits into voting for you.

Another is the sales tax, which as a shopper I hate, but as an investor I appreciate. Taxing consumption is a better idea in the long run than taxing income and saving. Why dis-incent income production and saving by taxing them and letting consumption of scotfree, when the wealth creation comes from saving one's income not consuming it (As savings it becomes available as capital for loans to businesses.) And jobs come from wealth creation, not consumption. Herman Cain's plan is balanced: it lays taxes on all three aspects evenly, so it does not distort the market. Like 40,000 pages of IRS-enforced legislated tax code does, by taxing income, but also greatly increasing the cost of doing business as we all play dodgeball with the IRS.

A third underappreciated aspect is that it looks like Herman Cain has been dealing with uppity people who are his intellectual inferiors for decades. C'mon, the guy's a math major for pete's sake. And they treat him like he's stupid. And he's been dealing with this for his entire life!

For quite a while he's been saying he's in it to win it! I for one believe him.

I think 'flavor of the month' is going the way of the watusi! (Old '60's dance...)

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 9:44AM

You know, I like that, but I like Herman/Newt 2012 even better!

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 10:09AM

What about Cain/Palin?

We can save a lot of money using the 2008 signs and just crossing out the "Mc." I'm just sayin...

Tim the Enchanter| 10.19.11 @ 12:09PM

ROTFLMAO!

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 3:24PM

LMAO!!

chuck| 10.19.11 @ 2:01PM

I would like Herman/Newt too, unfortunately they are both from Georgia, and the Constitution forbids Pres. and VP from being from the same state.

Or...... we can be like Pelosi, when asked about the Constitution......ARE YOU SERIOUS!

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 3:24PM

LOL!! ARE YOU SERIOUS?! YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!!

VBMax| 10.19.11 @ 4:56PM

Flip that ticket and you have it!

VBMax| 10.19.11 @ 4:57PM

meaning make it Gingrich/Cain

C.K. Amos| 10.19.11 @ 10:55AM

"I would love to see him as our nominee - what fun, with Romney as v.p. Not the other way around."

More and more, Romney seems to exude that "I'm entitled" attitude. IMO, he's not a conservative; perhaps, barely even a Republican.

As for the 2012 ticket: Cain for president and Gingrich for vice-president.

Ted| 10.20.11 @ 1:36PM

Newt would make an excellent consigliere or advisor. Not VP material, but worth having around as he is very good with thinking big. He has a tendency to shoot himself in the foot when he's actually in office.....

Mike Rogers | 10.19.11 @ 8:24AM

I came to Atlanta a few months back, and was pleasantly surprised at how large his following was among local people of all backgrounds. Now that is spreading nationwide, and I'm cheering.

Ted| 10.20.11 @ 1:34PM

Romney as VP? NO WAY! I would sooner see Hillary Clinton as the GOP VP nominee... At least then you would know for a fact you were getting a wolf in cheap clothing (with apologies to Bugs Bunny).

Jack in Wi.| 10.19.11 @ 6:37AM

The winner of the debate was Ron Paul, the only adult on the stage. He has an actual plan to cut government a trillion dollars in a year without raising taxes. 999 is a sick joke cooked up in the bowels of the Federal Reserve, by an old friend of Herman Cain. A 9% national sales tax would never get us out of the hole. It just would be another massive tax to fund our wars and bailouts. When the income tax was introduced in 1913 it's top rate was only about 7% and that was only on the rich. By 1918 and end of WW1 it had risen to over 70%. By WW2 it was on the backs of everyone and we had national withholding. Wars destroy countries, because they re financed by taxes and inflation.

The people of this country are sick to death of gimmics and wars. Herman Cain has proved himself to be an amiable dunce who knows nothing of economics, history, geography, or managing anything but a pizza parlour. He is a complete puff job of the media elites.

Ron Paul is No. 1 in the Iowa power rankings. We can chose from guarenteed losers like Romney, Cain, Perry or Gingrich. Who would be more of the same, even if in the unlikely event they won the presidency.

Ron Paul has the program. He has the largest and most active group of supporters. He has the program for fiscal and foreign policy solvency. No prowar Republican can be elected in this country. 60% of the population wants out of the Bush-Obama endless war program. 75% want an end to all foreign aid. 70% want the Fed audited and brought under control. Well over 70% want the Federal Govenment reduced drastically. It is Ron Paul or ruin.

Timothy L. Pennell| 10.19.11 @ 7:09AM

I hate to pile on, but: "Ron Paul is #1 in Iowa Power Rankings"?
That like the things they put in the Commercials for bad movies: The #1 Blind Date Movie of the Year. The #1 Comedy about a coupla Jewish Guys working in a Deli. The #1 Power Ranking in Iowa.
C'mon Jack. Seriously. Is that the best you can do?

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 7:27AM

" Ron Paul’s “Plan to Restore America” makes specific and detailed budgetary recommendations. His plan would immediately reduce federal spending to 17.24% of GDP in 2013, and to 15.5% by 2016. He lays out the budgetary details, saying he will retain Social Security, Medicare, and Veterans Benefits, and will transform other welfare programs like Medicaid into block grants to the states to allow them the flexibility to redesign them as they prefer. Some of the savings would come from eliminating the Departments of Energy, Housing and Urban Development, Commerce, Interior, and Education. Other savings are specified in some detail on his website. He would cut the corporate tax rate to 15%, eliminate personal taxes on saving, and end the death tax.'

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Doctor Right| 10.19.11 @ 7:45AM

Pathetic, isn't it?

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 7:53AM

" Rush Limbaugh on Ron Paul’s ‘Restore America’ Plan: ‘A Good Idea’

Rush Limbaugh, host of “The Rush Limbaugh Show,” likes Texas Congressman and GOP candidate Ron Paul’s “Restore America” plan. Paul presented his “Restore America” plan at a press conference in Las Vegas, Nevada on Monday. Paul’s “Restore America” plan calls for $1 trillion in spending cuts, the elimination of 5 cabinet departments and the abolishment of the TSA among other changes to the federal budget.

“Ron Paul has a good idea,” Limbaugh said on his radio show in response to a caller’s question about how Republicans should deal with the debt crisis if they take back the White House in the 2012 presidential race.'

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

chuck| 10.19.11 @ 8:02AM

Heck, I like Paul's plan to slice, dice, chop, and peel away the Federal government.
But he's STILL a nutcase when it comes to foreign policy.
Or to paraphrase Charlie Sheen: LOSING!

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 8:08AM

RINO-CINO's Wouldn't Know Real Conservative Foreign Policy If It Jumped Up & Bit Em.

Let Them Read George Washington's Farewell Address, Thomas Jefferson's First Inaugural Address, The Old Right And Get Back To Us.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 11:22AM

Clint:
You and Jack in WI are entertaining but neither of you is from a state that the GOP candidate is going to win. Ergo, what do you perceive as your role in electing a different President?

Doctor Right| 10.19.11 @ 12:03PM

Disagree.

GOP will win BOTH Pennsylvania and Wisconsin in 2012.

This is 1980 all-over-again. Obama will be routed.

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 12:31PM

Doctor:
It would be a great shock, albeit a pleasant one, if your prognostication came true. Those states may be in play but the unions and universities will carry them for the DEM. Fla and Ohio are where this will be decided. NC and VA in GOP column puts the electoral vote within reach. It's all about electoral votes and the DEM starts with a huge lead.

Doctor Right| 10.19.11 @ 3:27PM

Again, I disagree.

Wisconsin went RED in 2010 with Scott Walker. Pennsylvania elected Pat Toomey.

I simply don't see ANYTHING good that's happened for the Dems in either of those states since 2010.

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 4:16PM

Dr. That's what makes horseraces. It would be wonderful if a year plus a bit from now, I could say, "You were right Doctor". Might even buy you a Scotch.

W| 10.19.11 @ 4:13PM

Al Adab
Romney would win in Pa. The Reps who win in Pa tend to be moderate such as Arlent Specter, and Governor Tom Ridge. We just elected Pat Toomey during the 2010 tea party year.

Santorum won in 1994 against a weak opponent, Harris Wofford, in the year the Reps took over the House. Santorum won in 2000 against a very weak opponent, Ron Klink, who was a TV news guy. Santorum got crushed by 18 points in 2006 by Bob Casey, a likeable Dem whose father had been popular governor. Santorum is not popular in Pa.

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 4:18PM

W:
Maybe we all need to get together in a year or so and drink a toast to whichever of us comes closest. That's commeraderie.

W| 10.19.11 @ 5:58PM

Al, sounds good. Got be be optimistic.

Ted| 10.20.11 @ 1:39PM

I disagree Dr. (Sometimes) Right.... This may be 1984 all-over-again. If we look carefully, there's a possible chance that Obama may go 1-49...

Remember, in 1984, Mondale (barely) won his home state of Minnesota. Barely. He also won DC. I agree that the GOP likely will win PA and WI.

This may end up being a route in both the popular vote AND the Electoral College.

Mike Rogers | 10.19.11 @ 8:22AM

Don't feed the troll. Ron Paul is closer to Progressive than any other Republican - that's why he has suppporters in WI.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 8:59AM

HEY! HE says he's from Wisconsin. He might be here on vacation!

And Wisconsin elected Scott Walker, Ron Johnson, in 2010. Paul Ryan has been re-elected a number of times.

Earlier this year, the unions, local with national union support, tried to derail a fundamental change in Wisconsin law by "Occupying Madison" before it was popular. They failed. So they did what progressives always do, they tried it again only bigger on Wall Street. (Dirty little secret: there were more protestors in Madison, Wisconsin than there are in New York!) And one can only wonder at how that tough crowd "They stole my $5,500 Mac"of whiners will fare in real climate change, winter.

Jack says he's from Wisconsin, I say baloney! He's from Mars! Or actually progressives are all from Venus, aren't they?

Anthony| 10.19.11 @ 10:03AM

Right solar system, wrong planet. Uranus.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 10:10AM

Roger that. Good day sir.

Oh, yeah and NOT MINE!

Jack in Wi.| 10.19.11 @ 12:27PM

I know Scott Walker and worked for his election. I was the first poster on the Milwaukee Journal blog to call for taking away the unions power to bargin in this state. I did it dozens of times and was attacked by the union thugs for it. The Governor's aides all were commenting on this blog. It wasn't until I started my campaign that Governor Walker came up with his plan. It took him about 2 weeks, after i started to come up with the final plan. No one could figure out how he got the idea. Well I gave him more then a few hints. Of course he had the courage to actually do it. I will say one thing about Wisconsin. No prowar, pro bankster, Republican has a chance in this state.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 2:14PM

Bargin? Isn't that Fleischmann's.

I'm sure that all of Wisconsin is grateful that you gave Governor Walker the direction that he so clearly lacked. (That's AS sarcasm font...)

Jack, no one is less credible than he who claims to have given a leader all of the right answers. Maybe you did-no one will never know, unless you can convince Governor Walker to acknowledge you publicly. Good luck with that.

You seem to be following in the footsteps of a million fools who have claimed to be the motivating influence over people and events they wished they had.

Were you feeding Scott Walker all of his conservative ideas during his two terms as Milwaukee County Supervisor?

Yeah, I know you have your tux for "President Paul's inaugural." I know you were a big supporter of President Reagan, but I'm pretty sure the Gipper would not have us run from the world the way your candidate would. I wish I could have seen Ron Paul's face when he heard Ronald Reagan at the Brandenburg Gate saying "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

I cannot imagine Ron Paul ever showing that leadership. Can you? I don't think anybody else does either. That's his problem. Nobody else does either.

Herman Cain saying that - it's no stretch for me at all, and I think, others are seeing it, too. It's leadership, pure and simple.

Jack, I hope that, should Ron Paul not be the Republican candidate, you will work for the successful candidate as hard as you have for Congressman Paul. That'd make you an American I'd be proud to stand with. I bet that most of the rest of us here would, too.

Mike D.| 10.19.11 @ 2:44PM

DTOM, that was a brilliant analysis of this dillusional paranoid mental case. LOL

chuck| 10.19.11 @ 5:09PM

Actually, Jack claims to have followed politics for 60 years, so, if true, it's probably not delusional paranoid, but more likely Alzheimer's or senility.

Drunken Sailor| 10.19.11 @ 2:17PM

Let's see, You had dinner with Buckley, met Regan and both Bushes. Gave Scott Walker all his great ideas, and angered the unions. My, my, your arm is either really sore from all that self back-patting or your ears hurt from trying to get that fat head through the door. My guess is both and your so anal retentive your full of shit.

Mike D.| 10.19.11 @ 2:46PM

Hey, I was the guy who kept sending letters to Eisenhour about the D-Day plans and Kennedy called me just before he contacted Kruschev to deal with the Cuban Missile crisis. F'ing hilarious!!!! LOL

Mike D.| 10.19.11 @ 5:52PM

If Scott Walker had ANY provable connections to jackboot, the Unions wouldn't have had to run an expensive recall campaign. All they would have had to do was run one commercial with a list of quotes showing some of Jackboot's best stuff. Walker would have had a press conference the next day and resigned in disgrace.

Jack in Wi.| 10.20.11 @ 7:15AM

Seeing that I seem to know more about history, geography, economics and foreign policy then anyone here. I guess if I am senile you folks are blithering idiots.

Mike D.| 10.20.11 @ 8:29AM

Of course you do, your a legend in your own mind Jackass. Why is that your always getting punked on your facts over and over and over? Dufus! That little brain of yours seems to have its doors jammed shut. You couldn't debate a chimp in a cage over a banana.

Doctor Right| 10.19.11 @ 3:28PM

Weren't you with Reagan, too?

You were the guy who taught him that Communism was bad, weren't you??

(Jack is like Forrest Gump...Listen to him long enough, and you'll see him attach himself to all sorets of historical people and events...)

Mike D.| 10.19.11 @ 3:58PM

No what you have here is a conservative(his self description, not mine) real life Walter Mitty. The dude sits around and daydreams about all the wonderful things he has influenced for the cause and is an integril part of directing the course of history. Sometimes I am really torn between laughing at this pathetic idiot or actually feeling sorry for him.

Ted| 10.20.11 @ 1:41PM

Yes, but in Forrest Gump's defense, he at least didn't do it on purpose.....

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 10.19.11 @ 6:48AM

What wasn't bought out about Cain's plan is that by simplifying the tax code, billions would be saved by the business sector.

That would be accomplished by the fact that 30 cents of each dollar earned by many businesses is spent on tax maintenance. That would be gone under Cain's 999 plan.

The aggregate amount of tax collected by the federal government would remain at about 16%.
Ironically Hauser's Law would still be in effect.

As the facts come out about the plan some of the other candidates are going to look rather stupid because it's obvious they don't know the facts about 999.

chuck| 10.19.11 @ 7:47AM

Absolutely Bill! While I prefer the FairTax, 9-9-9 is a helluva lot better than the 40,000 pages of the current tax code, a code so complex, it takes armies of accountants to comply with it. 9-9-9 is simple, understandable, and assures that everyone, EVERYONE, has some skin in the game. Everyone in the underground economy, from illegals, drug dealers, street walkers, and even the guy you pay cash to fix your toilet would now be paying some sort of tax.
It just shows the politician mentality that they have to criticize 9-9-9. "The rates will go up!" Not if the American people do their job and keep on their representative's asses!
Let's turn the question around: If we had something like 9-9-9, would you support replacing it with the current 40,000 page tax code?

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 8:13AM

9-9-9 Is A Non-Starter from Cain's former FED buddy , Rich Lowrie.

No Real Conservative would ever allow Big Government to have a National Sales Tax & An Income Tax.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 9:04AM

Clint,

Little Richie is a National Review refugee who's trying to make a name for himself in the mainstream media world. Methinks he's angling for the cable news talk show spot for the dependable CINO who slams any true conservative who manages to get a foothold.

Remember him in the Fox debate trying to out gotcha Chris (Mike, Jr.) Wallace? He did pretty well in that fool's contest...

Deborah D | 10.19.11 @ 9:41AM

DTOM -- I believe those are two different people. Rich Lowry is at National Review....

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 10:16AM

Sorry, Ms. D. I recognized the little crap weasel on the Fox debate from a number of his appearances as National Review's Rich Lowry.

If they are two different people they seem to be evil twins with the same name.

Sorry. Today's National Review is not your father's National Review. Even a little. Sorry. They published Sullivan's Law and then fell prey to it. Fools.

Deborah D | 10.19.11 @ 10:50AM

I agree, wholeheartedly. I've been dismayed at National Review of late. They are too much "inside the beltway" and not enough of "conservative."

Deborah D | 10.19.11 @ 10:50AM

I agree, wholeheartedly. I've been dismayed at National Review of late. They are too much "inside the beltway" and not enough of "conservative."

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 10:54AM

You can say that again!

Deborah D | 10.19.11 @ 12:20PM

Hahaha!!! Sorry, it was taking to too long to post so I hit the refresh button, and voila!! Double post! So sorry!!

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 1:04PM

Deborah is right.

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 1:02PM

Do your Homework.

Cain's FED buddy Rich Lowrie, now works for a Division Of TARP Recipient Wells Fargo.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 3:08PM

Clint;

Good on you! I have wrested my homework back from my dog. And I am chastened - you, Clint, are in fact correct and I was mistaken. Rich Lowrie does identify himself as working at a division of Wells Fargo and he does identify himself as a Senior Economic Adviser to the Friends of Herman Cain.

However he also identifies himself as having worked at McDonald Investments from 1993 through 2008. As he got his degree in 1990, and Herman Cain was at the Fed in Kansas City from 1992 through 1997, I wonder about your inference that Lowrie is Cain's "FED buddy." I'm hoping you'll illuminate that one for me.

And the reason we are talking about Lowrie is that you represent that he does not agree with the 999 plan that is being paid for by Friends of Herman Cain. So then why does he continue to identify himself as a Cain Senior Economic Adviser? That does not make sense, either. I'm sure you'll clarify that for us.

So here's my homework. Please share your work with us. Thanks.

And another thing, Clint, ol' buddy, ol' pal, I hope that once the Republican nominee is chosen, and alas, alack, it is not Ron Paul that you don't just sit on your hands, skulk away tending to your own self. I hope you will drop your shoulder to the wheel and work as hard as you have worked from Ron Paul to elect whomever the candidate is over Barack Obama. If you do, I will be proud to stand with you as a fellow American. If you don't, shame on you, shame on you.

PS: BTW Rich Lowry, lately of National Review, your CINO status is unaffected by this whole conversation. No shade for you, sir.

PPS to Deb D.

Ma'am, sorry I steered you wrong. It's not my first mistake, won't be my last, but I do regret it.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 3:09PM

No dogs were harmed in the swift, but delayed completion of my homework...none, not even a little, I never even touched him. He dropped it and I snuck in and got it back from him. Really, honest...

Stefan Stackhouse| 10.19.11 @ 9:36AM

Yes, they love the 15.3% (and rising) payroll tax so much that they could never part with it.

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 1:05PM

Do Your Homework.

" The business portion of Cain’s plan apparently does not allow employers to deduct wages and salaries, which means — for all intents and purposes — that they would levy a 9 percent withholding tax on employee compensation. And that would be in addition to the 9 percent they presumably would withhold for the flat tax portion of Cain’s plan.

Employers use withholding in the current system, of course, but at least taxpayers are given credit for all that withheld tax when filling out their 1040 tax forms. Under Cain’s 9-9-9 plan, however, employees would only get credit for monies withheld for the flat tax.

In other words, there are two income taxes in Cain’s plan — the 9 percent flat tax and the hidden 9 percent income tax that is part of the VAT (this hidden income tax on wages and salaries, by the way, is a defining feature of a VAT)."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Derek Leaberry| 10.19.11 @ 10:01AM

Cain's 9-9-9 plan without child exemptions is a dagger at the heart of millions of conservative families. The plan is not only anti-family, it will cause many conservative voters to abandon the Republican Party.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 10:17AM

Yeah, and Barack Obama is trying to make the world a better place your babies.

Derek, wise up.

Deborah D | 10.19.11 @ 10:29AM

It is not anti-family. It is pro America. Read Art Laffer here: http://online.wsj.com/article/.....on_LEADTop As Herman said last night, you should go and check out how the new tax would affect you. The cost of everything would be less because of the elimination of hidden taxes (or as Herman says -- sneak-a-taxes) in all things. Plus, businesses would be keeping a big bunch of their profits because they wouldn't have to pay lawyers, accountants and lobbyists -- which the establishment isn't going to like -- but would translate to lower costs for business and lower costs for consumers. That's the bigger problem because the establishment loves their lobbyists, so they'll fight it. That large family, however, will be paying less for goods throughout the year on everything.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 2:53PM

Thanks for that info. Deb D.

Country Class Women for Herman Cain 2012!

I'm gonna have that bumper sticker printed up.

C.K. Amos| 10.19.11 @ 10:58AM

"9-9-9 Is A Non-Starter from Cain's former FED buddy , Rich Lowrie."

It appears that you haven't yet discerned that NR is an establishment Republican operation. For weeks now, they've dissed Herman Cain and seem only to have positive ink for Mitt Romney, RINO extraordinaire.

And, yes, the Tea Party rebellion is here. Perhaps you can join us?

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 7:19PM

I'm An Active Member Of The Valley Forge Patriots & Our Organizers & A Number Of Our Members Support Dr.Ron Paul.

Perhaps You'll Be Joining Us, Sport.

Mike Rogers | 10.19.11 @ 8:28AM

Indeed - the media and the loser candidates can only see, or only want us to see, the visible 9% sales tax, but refuse to see the number of times along the supply chain that 35% corporate and 7.65% payroll taxes have been tacked onto the current cost of goods.
Its only regressive if its an addition - as a substitute, it's pretty mild, and even the poor will be better off, as pay goes up, and the underlying cost of goods goes down.

Timothy L. Pennell| 10.19.11 @ 7:03AM

Let's not forget. "Herman Cain is a nice guy, and he's actually performing a great service, by making the REAL CANDIDATES, work harder." That's what Michael Walsh wrote, in an Op-Ed Piece, in the New York Post, the other Day.
Britt Hume basically said the same thing, a coupla nights ago, when he proclaimed that Cain had no shot at the nomination, because: "He didn't have enough money, and he doesn't have any kind of Organization, on the ground." Now, we've got Rick Santorum saying, of Mr. Cains and his 9-9-9 Plan: "Herman's well meaning, and I love his boldness, and it's great".....The only thing he left out was that Herman is Intelligent, and Clean, and he can speak without any NEGRO dialect.
Michelle Bachmann thinks that : "People will pay more." She's right. All the people who pay ZERO, will pay more. Is anyone against that?
And, Rick Perry thinks that: "Whoa partner. You can't just put out something simple, and easy to understand, to solve problems. You need Commissions, and Focus Groups, and Pollsters, and a Ouija Board. 999" Hell, man. The only thing that number represents, is the number of pages in Romney's 59 Point Plan."
These folks just don't get it. WE WILL DECIDE who our nominee will be. If you don't believe me? Then go ask Charlie Crist. Or, Mike Castle. Or, the guy in Colorado.
These people, who are trying to throw water on Herman Cain, and his chances for the nomination, are the very same Best and Brightest, who said that Barry Soetoro had no shot. And that, the wife of the Impeached RAPIST, was a SURE THING.
I don't know about you, but I stopped watching the Sunday Shows, a long time ago. I trust anyone who's too clean. Ya know what I mean? Someone who's Hair is always perfectly in place. Someone who's hands are too soft. Their fingernails, too manicured. And I'm suspicious of ANYONE, who would make a CAREER, out of Running for Elective Office.
Ronald Reagan always said that he "Trusted the American People". But, then, he was an "Amiable Dunce" and "He couldn't be elected".
I'm with Reagan. I'm thinking that WE don't need Bill Krystal or Britt Hume, or Ted Baxter. We can make our own Decisions.

Nancy in NC| 10.19.11 @ 7:45AM

I'm beginning to feel like your water bearer, Pennell. Excellent post that I agree with AGAIN.

The thing I like about Herman the most is his common sense...a rare commodity in DC and not recognized by most.

I don't think 999 would ever be passed by Congress, but maybe 911 would. I hope to talk to Mr. Cain next month when I attend the AFP convention in DC. He was very accessible last year, and hopefully will be the same in Nov.

While I agree with much of what Ron Paul says, his libertarian stance on some things are just over the top. In a debate with Obama he would be toast as he is not that articulate and often comes off as a kook.

But the absolute truth is until we have a Congress that is more open to conservative ideas and less concerned about their own agenda, I don't see much changing, regardless who is POTUS.

chuck| 10.19.11 @ 8:07AM

Nancy, I put my faith in the American people too, and I believe 9-9-9 could pass because Cain would have the force of the American people behind him. Look at what Reagan did with a House of Reps. controlled by Tip O'neill.

gearjammewr| 10.19.11 @ 8:11AM

Nancy you idiot. What will change is the Supreme court, if Obama wins we all lose. Vote for Romney and shut up.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 9:12AM

Only if Rino Romney is the nominee, only if he's the nominee. Right now, you still have a choice! Don't be sold that RINO bill-of-goods, Mitt, George, Jr. Romney.

Uh oh, I've a rant coming on!

I for one am absolutely sick of father-son combinations in our polity! The Bush father and son team, George and Mitt Romney, Richard, Richard, Jr. and Bill Daley, Lisa Murkowski and her crooked father, any Kennedy you can name. They all have been aggravating and miserable. Talk about a sense of entitlement! America we fought hard to get away from inherited power! I wish we would habitually, instinctively vote against the offspring of politicians! Our failure to do so represents a failure on our part, a failure to take our self-governance seriously.

Don't tread on me...

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 9:47AM

LOL.. I'm with ya!

The Big E| 10.19.11 @ 10:32AM

You know, gearjammer, I think your pompous, ignorant comment explains more about why so many of us are fed up with Romney and his ilk's arrogant, condescending, holier-than-thou garbage than anything I've read recently.

Vote for Romeny and shut up.

MY ASS!!!!

There's a helluva a lot more difference between Romney and Cain then there is between Romney and Obama, who as far as I can see, are two peas in the same pod.

Obama and Romney are both political snake oil salesmen. They will say anything, claim to support or oppose anything, if they think will get them votes. They have no respect for the voters or what te people think. They're sole goal is the self-aggrandizement of power. The rest of us are just rubes to be conned and that's it.

Obama and Romney both start from the assumption that they are never, ever wrong about anything and can solve all the world's problems if we'll just turn our lives and our money over to them to spend in a far more wise manner than we ignorant inbreeds ever could without their direction.

Obama and Romney both see government action as the answer to our problems, they may disagree on which government action, but they both view government as the solution.

If Romney is the Republican parties' nominee, then I will hold my nose and vote for him in November simply because I think he is generally more competent than Obama. It certainly won't be because I want him to EVER be President of this Country.

Then I'll go scrub my hands in hot water and lye until I've scrubbed all the slime off.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 10:55AM

That's why I like to call Rino Romney ObamaLite.

Deborah D | 10.19.11 @ 9:18AM

Timothy, I always enjoy your rants, and I'm so glad you're a Cain supporter. He's been my man from the start, and I was ecstatic when he won the Florida straw poll. I used to live in Marietta, GA, and he did his radio show from the Cobb County Tea Party on July 3, 2009. He was awesome then and he's awesome now. One of his most poignant statements then was something to the effect -- that he was the descendent of slaves, and whether it's a slave to a person or a slave to a government made no difference to him. Spoken like a true American who believes in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. He doesn't spout things -- he believes them -- that's why the RINO establishment is so fearful of him. He's going to upset the apple cart and the orange cart, and if you read Jeffrey Lord's column from yesterday -- that's why they're going after him. Screw the establishment!

Deborah D | 10.19.11 @ 9:21AM

Oops...left out a very important part of Herman's statement -- He was the descendent of slaves and he wasn't going back to that....

Sorry, typing too fast!:)

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 11:32AM

What's sad Deborah is that the republicans are spending all this time energy and money beating each other up while the person in the White House campaigns around the country gathering megabucks. The GOP has a long history of tearing each other apart and making winning elections harder for themselves. It goes at least as far back as 1960 and the "Compact of Fifth Avenue" when Rockefeller coerced Nixon into signing off on his policies to get Rockys' support. We cat fight ouirselves into failure. Perfection can often be the enemy of success.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 11:55AM

Al,

There is another positive from all of this quibbling.

Whoever walks out of the firestorm as winner has had to perfect Jackie Chan-like responses to a million different attacks and criticisms. It has a real way of improving the candidate's 'on his (her) feet' response quality.

Our little President is over there amidst his handlers being asked not one single question, not an easy one, not any hard ones. When he gets shoved out onto the debate stage with say Herman Cain, those big ol'ears will shrink to nothing as his eyes grow to deer-in-headlights saucers. He'll look for his beloved TOTUS and find that there ain't none. Then Mr. Cain will begin in those deep, thundering tones...I CAIN'T hardly wait.

Oh and what would Rino Romney do? I can already hear him saying, 'Oh, I agree with you Mr. President...' Arrrggghhh!

No no no ...
Say it ain't so,
Romney, Romney's got to go!

Try it you'll like it.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 4:32PM

Deb D.,

I'm a newcomer so to speak, to Herman Cain. I happened to be listening to him on the radio one day, several months ago. We had recently moved out of state. and I don't remember if he was sitting in for someone else, I think he may have been, but anyway, I had NEVER heard of him before.

I fell in love with him (so to speak, don't wanna get the accusations of emotional supporter, ya know), as soon as I heard him.

He was BRIGHT, honest, down to earth, humble, and business savvy.

I told my husband about him, and said I've just heard a man that is like Ronald Reagan, who I've never heard of before. He wasn't running for President at that time, but I was thrilled when I heard he threw his hat into the ring.

Yes indeed, SCREW THE ESTABLISHMENT RIP VAN WINKLES!

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 2:58PM

Timothy:

Did you catch how right out of the gate they tried to discredit Herman Cain last night?

Wow. Squash him before he gets a chance! The Republican Establishment (The Rip Van Winkles) REALLY do not want their world rocked, their tax code changed, or a genuine conservative (and Christian) coming anywhere NEAR them!

Herman Cain will prevail. He wants it, is willing to present a plan, and the country class love him.

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 7:39AM

Cain was Against Auditing The FED, before he was For Auditing The FED.
Cain was For TARP, before he was Against TARP.

Cain was Against Muslims in his Cabinet, before he was For Muslims in his Cabinet.

And 9-9-9 is Applesauce.

Like Sarah Palin said, He's The Flavor of the Week.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 3:00PM

Clint was the deceitful liar who went by the name Tim* before he posted as Clint.

His story never changes. He twists in the wind like a snake and serves his "master" well.

RJ| 10.19.11 @ 6:45PM

Who is Clint's master?

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 7:24PM

You're A Serial Slandering Liar RINO-CINO Israel Firster Margie & American Spectator's Resident Maniac Religious Bigot.

Joisey's Gain Is Pennsylvania's Loss.

Move Soon To Ohio.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 8:07PM

You WISH, punk.
YOU are the serial liar, phony conservative, and BIGOT against the written Words of God.
Repent, liar.
If not, you will surely get what is coming to you for what you do here and elsewhere, under the guise of many screen names.
You can't hide from Jesus, Troll.

NedB| 10.19.11 @ 7:45AM

Mr. Cain's 9-9-9 plan is imperfect. The sales tax will be doa. However, this plan is a good starting point.

Mr. Cain has provided us with something tangible that we can look at and discuss, and we are doing just that.

All the rest?

Not so much.

As to Ron Paul? Send him him and let his son take over. He seems to have all his marbles. :)

With regards to Ron Paul, the web site Anti-idiotarian Rotweillor said it best.

"You Know, It’s Really a Pity that He’s a Foreign Policy Lunatic…"

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 7:57AM

RINO-CINO's Wouldn't Know Real Conservative Foreign Policy If It Jumped Up & Bit Ya.

Let Them Read George Washington's Farewell Address, Thomas Jefferson's First Inaugural Address, The Old Right And Get Back To Us.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Anthony| 10.19.11 @ 10:23AM

I agree with Ned. Let's not get caught up in the minutia. 9-9-9 may be imperfect but Congress still has the last word on tax reform, and look where that's has gotten us!!!

Gary B| 10.19.11 @ 7:48AM

I saw this somewhere as a rough test on the candidates:

1. Do you like the candidate?
2. Do you trust the candidate?
3. Can the candidate do the job?

The most important one for me is number 2. I don't have to like the person and most of them can do the job. But, we all know that trust is huge. How many so-called conservatives do we send to DC who simply stroll over to the dark side? Answer: Most of them.

As much as I like Cain, I think Paul is the most trustworthy. He's been saying the right stuff on domestic policy for years. But, with foreign policy, he's throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Mike Rogers | 10.19.11 @ 8:32AM

Ah yes, the most trustworthy - like this?
http://spectator.org/archives/.....f-ron-paul

Sean| 10.19.11 @ 9:32AM

Romney-TARP, Obamacare founder
Newt- Global warming, individual mandate promoter
Cain-TARP, no auditing the FED
Perry-TARP, Hillary Care, Al Gore, ect

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 10:19AM

So, vote Obama, right?

Above is in new AS sarcastic font!!!

Sean| 10.19.11 @ 10:37AM

Vote Ron Paul who is the true conservative in the race.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 10:56AM

Sean,

Your computer must be messed up because when you typed "libertarian" it came out as "conservative."

Better get somebody to look at that, quick.

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 11:18AM

" RON PAUL “PLAN TO RESTORE AMERICA”

REGULATION:
Repeals ObamaCare, Dodd-Frank, and Sarbanes-
Oxley. Mandates REINS-style requirements for
thorough congressional review and authorization
before implementing any new regulations issued by
bureaucrats. President Paul will also cancel all onerous
regulations previously issued by Executive Order."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 11:59AM

Clint;

Every now and then even a blind squirrel finds a good nut.

And I'll give you that it is a very good nut.

But eliminating Cabinet Departments has been in the GOP platforms for years. Now if we could just find somebody to implement the platform as policy...the way that RINO/CINO's don't!

ElPuma25| 10.19.11 @ 11:01AM

Ron Paul is not a conservative, he is a libertarian. As such, he'll be in agreement with most conservative positions when it comes to economic issues, but will be at odds with them on foreign policy and cultural issues.
Thus, he'll never be the Republican nominee, who is controlled by moderate liberals and populated by conservatives

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 11:12AM

" RON PAUL “PLAN TO RESTORE AMERICA”

CUTTING GOVERNMENT WASTE:
Makes a 10% reduction in the federal workforce,
slashes Congressional pay and perks, and curbs
excessive federal travel. To stand with the American
People, President Paul will take a salary of $39,336,
approximately equal to the median personal income of
the American worker."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 12:08PM

Not when Ronald Wilson Reagan was President! A President with rock solid conservative principles can overcome the squishes.

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 1:36PM

Ronald Reagan,
"Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country."

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 3:10PM

Ron Paul was FOR Ronald Reagan BEFORE he was against him.
LOL.
Heh, I can cut & paste too, Clinty-poo:

Keep on quoting that 1976 "endorsement" by Reagan, but here's the truth:

Would Ronald Reagan Have Endorsed Ron Paul?

"Similar to any Republican president, Ronald Reagan endorsed all GOP House and Senate candidates. This included liberal Republicans such as Senators Mark Hatfield (OR), Lowell Weicker (CT), and Arlen Specter (PA), as well as Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX).
The difference is Paul has taken an old endorsement from a Congressional race and attempted to make it appear Reagan endorsed the Texan as a national candidate. Nothing could be further from the truth. Rep. Paul has misrepresented the Reagan pro forma endorsement for decades and his action has been condemned by top Reagan aides.
This was a significant issue during the 2008 presidential campaign. In the New Hampshire primary, the most prominent Paul TV ad closed with the narrator saying: “We need to keep him fighting for our country,” and the words are attributed to Reagan. This was surprising because it came from the same Ron Paul who told the Dallas Morning News the Reagan presidency was a “dramatic failure.”
The endorsement controversy was addressed in the February 11, 2008 issue of Newsweek:
“Paul uses a longer version of the quotation on his Web page: ‘Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first.’ – Ronald Reagan
“Ron Paul’s embrace of Reagan’s legacy represents a significant change of heart. Actually, it’s the second time that Paul has changed his mind about Reagan. After endorsing Reagan for president in 1976 and again in 1980, Paul became disenchanted, leaving the Republican party in 1987. The following year, he told the Los Angeles Times on May 10, 1988: “The American people have never reached this point of disgust with politicians before. I want to totally disassociate myself from the Reagan Administration.“
“Paul’s disaffection started early in Reagan’s presidency: ‘Ronald Reagan has given us a deficit 10 times greater than what we had with the Democrats,’ Paul told the Christian Science Monitor in 1987, ‘It didn’t take more than a month after 1981, to realize there would be no changes.’
“Sometime between 1988 (during Paul’s run for the presidency on the Libertarian Party ticket) and 1996 (when Paul, running as a Republican once more, successfully ousted an incumbent House member in a GOP primary), Paul once again embraced Reagan’s legacy.
“The New York Times reported then that Paul had used the longer version of the Reagan quote in a videotape sent to 30,000 households. According to the Times, Reagan’s former attorney general, Edwin Meese III, flew to Texas ‘to insist that Mr. Reagan had offered no recent endorsements.’
“We were unable to document Reagan’s endorsement of Paul. When we asked the Paul campaign for documentation, a spokesperson told us that the campaign was ‘a little more focused on positive things.’ The Paul campaign did not provide the Times with a date for the quotation in 1996, either.”

http://diplomatdc.wordpress.co.....ld-reagan/

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 7:31PM

"When Ronald Reagan ran for the Republican nomination in 1976 he was opposed by the Republican leadership and was even considered a “kook” by many in the party. Sound familiar? At that time, only four Republican congressman supported Reagan and Ron Paul was one of them."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7RzaQ4MK2E

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 3:13PM

Clint;

Reagan, if you read what he said, wanted to keep Ron Paul in the Air Force, where he would have no ability to influence policy, right?

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 7:37PM

Duuuuuuuhhhh !

Wrong Asshole.

View The Video.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Dr.Ron Paul Was Already A Congressman When Ronald reagan Endorsed Congressman Ron Paul.

Alice Moore| 10.19.11 @ 7:55AM

A plan to eliminate the Rube Goldberg device of a federal tax code; what's so bad about that? Why are so many conservatives and Republicans against this?

It would probably cut down the staff of the US Treasury Dept. It would serve to depoliticize it as well.

The regressive aspect of the 9% sales tax will be a harder sell. The benefits of eliminating the tax code will far out weigh any personal sales tax.

The average voter will probably like Cain's proposal. I wonder about professions that derive their income from the code. Many years ago there was a caller on Rush's show, Jack from North Dakota, he contended that the tax code was as much a 3rd rail as Social Security and Medicare. The reason being is that there were so many boons, real and illusory, to a majority of American voters. There are not only the professions, but homeowners, EITC, and refunds.

It will be interesting to see if this can be made a serious campaign theme.

Mike Rogers | 10.19.11 @ 8:34AM

If anybody can sell this idea, Cain can.
Time for some charts and analysis, or even an Art Laffer curve on a napkin (Laffer supports 9/9/9).

Deborah D | 10.19.11 @ 9:31AM

Ann, interesting on the 3rd rail of the tax code. That's where politicians derive their power, and that's where lobbyists derive their power and their money -- basically extorting money from businesses who will be affected by new tax proposals (and regulations) and lobbying congress-critters to do or not do certain things. If you didn't read Jeff Lord's column from yesterday, please do. He shed a huge spotlight on this particular (and terribly vexing problem) with our Republican establishment.

Derek Leaberry| 10.19.11 @ 9:49AM

Conservative families with large families will not like Cain's proposal as he plans to rid the code of child exemptions. In fact, the Cain tax plan is anti-family. If passed, it would devastate large Christian conservative families.

Deborah D | 10.19.11 @ 10:23AM

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 10:23AM

As much as TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS of new debt?

Wise up, Derek. Or do you believe that the current tax code with its social engineering basis is good for the country. Or do you just like how it fits you? Wouldn't that make you selfish?

Man up dude. Pay your fair share. Do we really want anybody to ride for free? Should they want to? (Or shouldn't they at least adhere to the First Law of Successful Parasites: Don't kill the host.)

Derek Leaberry| 10.19.11 @ 3:33PM

I ask virtually nothing from the government so why should I pay this mythical "fair share." Ideas like "fair share" seem like egalitarian hogwash to me. There has never been any sort of "fair share" in human history whether that be the America of the Old Republic, Revolutionary France, Communist Russia or the socialist nanny states of modern Scandanavia.

Inevitably, the problem is that the government is way too big and there are too many pigs at the trough- big labor, bureaucrats, the military-industrial complex, NASA, AMTRAK, agribusiness, the roadbuilding lobby and thousands of other parasites. A change in the tax scheme is not a priority. Abolishing much of the federal government is a priority.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 4:24PM

So, Derek, we do agree that the federal government has been coloring outside the Constitution's lines for about 110 years on the tax front. But a lot of that was done under the color of Constitutional Amendment.

Your attacks against a candidate because he wants to among other things remove the social engineering from the government's revenue raising activities contradicts directly your self-professed conservatism.

One of the very first activities of the US federal government was defense and the problem was how to pay for it. Then as now, many did not want to pay for it. You do not see that paying for the defense of our country as well as a number of other Constitutionally commanded activities is your responsibility. That is the fair share I was referring to - it's not egalitarian hogwash, unless of course you believe that the rest of us owe you your rights and privileges.

If you believe in that then you also believe in slavery. Your fair share, knucklehead, is to help pay for those who have agreed to give up their lives to protect you if the need arises.

That you don't like the other stuff the government is doing is no excuse. If you don't like it, get involved and try to change it.

But complaining because you might have to pay more taxes than the totally warped status quo tax system is the action of a selfish mind. Where's your citizenship, sir? KIA? No. MIA? No. AWOL. Yeah, that's the ticket, you're AWOL.

And if there has never been a fair share in all of history, have you never had lunch with a number of friends, none of whom was buying for everyone else? Was there not a fair share of the lunch tab?

Egalitarian hogwash! That was asinine. Maybe you want to be Occupying Wall Street for more free stuff from those who work for it.

This is not fun, Derek. But you have to see what you are saying, how it reflects on you, and what it means.

God bless you, and your family - but you gotta get this straight.

Len| 10.19.11 @ 8:56AM

Again people miss it, Cain has no more substance than the other folks, excluding Paul. If the federal government were confined to it's constitutional powers, the federal government would have almost no tax impact on us period. Paul gave outright names of unconstitutional departments he would end...who else has? It merely proves how hypocritical conservatives are in claiming to support the US constitution.

Another example, foreign aid, Ron Paul correctly stated foreign aid is unconstitutional, Bachmann then immediately says she will continue foreign aid to Israel, showing her contempt for the instrument under which she is supposed to operate.

Back to Cain, he supported TARP, also unconstitutional and perverse in allowing corporations to take risks and have others pay for their mistakes, and he still supports the Federal Reserve, also unconstitutional.

Folks, the framers placed the power to COIN money with the congress exactly because of the very thing the Federal Reserve does, which is print unbacked money. Certain states were issuing bills of credit, so to prevent this from happening the power to coin money was ggiven to the congress AND the states were prohibited from making anything but gold and silver for payments. NOTHING but hard money, or the notes for hard money is constitutional. Also, there is no authority under the US constitution to grant privileges to any entity, let alone one controlled by an elite group of bankers that enables them to distort the market in their favor.

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 11:08AM

" RON PAUL “PLAN TO RESTORE AMERICA”

ENTITLEMENTS:
Honors our promise to our seniors and veterans,
while allowing young workers to opt out. Block grants
Medicaid and other welfare programs to allow States
the flexibility and ingenuity they need to solve their
own unique problems without harming those currently
relying on the programs."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Ken (Old Texican)| 10.19.11 @ 9:00AM

In my heart of hearts…………..
It is about thirty minutes before the CNN circular shooting gallery called a debate. I must first say that Governor Perry has embarrassed me as a Texan in the prior debates.

Evidently, he has yet to figure out the underlying purpose of these so-called “debates”…and has not responded well up until now.

In case you folks have not figured it out yet….these debates are designed to put Obama back in office, (while increasing TV ratings of course).

I truly hope Perry and his team have finally figured that salient fact out as well. Mr. Cain CANNOT go the distance which puts Romney in as the default option. That makes me sick at heart.

Even if Mitt wins, he will be a wilted shrub. He has no interest at all in rolling back the communism we have been subjected to. He will waffle at every turn, when what we need is responsible governance.

…………AND the morning following the debate…..

Well, I have read all the blogs and comments this morning. Heh, they all include Perry’s “performance at arguing”, but no substance about what Mr. Perry said and firmly stands for.
.
Folks, Mr. Perry said as clearly as possible how he would put two million people back to work…QUICKLY…in solid jobs with a future in the energy industry. He was ignored and/or called a “one trick pony”.
What he could have said if given the time is that those two million jobs would QUICKLY spin off a couple of million additional good jobs, in manufacturing energy equipment and infrastructure…..IF the regulatory noose were loosened and the stupid spendings were cut. (think the trillion dollars spent on “global warming fears” ie: green jobs.)

Finally, Mr. Perry doesn’t throw out candy-Cains, of neat ideas, but points to his record of accomplishing the solid business environment Texas enjoys, and merely invites the rest of the country to join us in our success.

Unlike Mr. Cain, Mr. Perry owns several pairs of boots…very useful for wading through the cess-pool that is Washington DC.

chuck| 10.19.11 @ 9:29AM

Ken, I respect your opinion about Perry, and despite his bad debate performances I believe he would make a fine president. However, I believe your wrong about Cain. Cain is using 9-9-9 to pivot the nation towards the FairTax. He has stated as much. As a businessman, surely you must know the boon to business either the FairTax, or 9-9-9 would be. 9% corporate tax would be one of the lowest in the world, encouraging businesses to open their shops here in the USA.
Cain has defied all the odds so far, so I think your wrong to write him off as not having staying power.

Derek Leaberry| 10.19.11 @ 9:46AM

Do you know that 9-9-9 guts the tax code of child exemptions which means a large tax increase for religious, conservative families with large families? Cain's 9-9-9 is a dagger aimed at the heart of large conservative families.

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 9:56AM

You completely miss it. He's not getting rid of deductions for children, he's eliminating the ENTIRE Tax Code and replacing it with something completely different. Which doesn't have subsidies and loopholes for everything under the sun.

Why should I be punished with higher taxes just because I choose to not have children until I'm in my 30's and mature enough to handle raising a child?

What if I don't want to have children? Should I be punished my entire life?

These aren't conservative values my friend. Anyone who disagrees with me needs to read over Mr. Goldwater's book "Conscience of a Conservative" a time or two.

The late 50's is where the American Conservative movement started, and I'm sick and tired of idiot "Conservatives" who don't even know what it means to be a Conservative making their case for government subsidies.

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 10:02AM

Conservatism has nothing to do with Religion, it is NOT and economic ideology. It is philosphical, and it has to do with maximizing LIBERTY.

This is where you self-titled Conservatives miss it. You take away my Liberty (Financial, Economic Liberty) because I don't make the decisions you deem to be the rightgeous ones with my life. Just to increase your liberty. Sounds similar to slavery to me.

I work my entire life to feed your children with the current tax code. Nothing "Conservative" about that.

That's why I don't go for the Social "Conservatives" like Rick Santorum and Michelle Bachmann who don't even know what it means to be a Conservative.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 10:29AM

Yo! Pig!

I think Derek is too far gone in his love for how he's managed to position himself comfortably taxwise within the current IRS tax codes. Sounds like a statist to me: I got mine, too bad for you.

We don't want government revenue collection schemes designing our lives for us, thank you, Mr. Leaberry, shuffle...

"Selfish" is starting to look good on him.

Derek Leaberry| 10.19.11 @ 3:23PM

Try reading Russell Kirk, Thomas Fleming or Edmund Burke to get another view of conservatism different from Ayn Rand libertarianism or Austrian economics.

As for your contempt for religion, let me shoot two replies your way. First, the Civilization of what America sprang was from the fountain provided by Christianity. Second, win without religious conservatives, if you can. I don't think you can.

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 3:34PM

Ok, then speak on "Christian" Values, not "Conservatism." Conservatism deals only with the subject of Liberty, and any implications made economically first deal with the spiritual Liberty of man. And when I say "spiritual" I don't mean anything religous.

Mr. Goldwater holds many truths for you to discover.

All you are doing is dilluting the waters when it comes to Conservatism. Don't call it "religious conservative" there's no such thing. There's only the "religous." and there's nothing wrong with having values, I'm not arguing that. But Conservatism only deals with Liberty. Its clear. Any implications to economics or religious values are first grounded in Liberty.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 3:57PM

"No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and Virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders."
~Samuel Adams- Letter to James Warren, November 4, 1775

"Revelation assures us that "Righteousness exalteth a Nation" - Communities are dealt with in this World by the wise and just Ruler of the Universe. He rewards or punishes them according to their general Character. The diminution of publick Virtue is usually attended with that of publick Happiness, and the publick Liberty will not long survive the total Extinction of Morals."
~Samuel Adams, Letter to John Scollay, April 30, 1776

"We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom alone men ought to be obedient. He reigns in Heaven, and with a propitious eye beholds his subjects assuming that freedom of thought and dignity of self-direction which He bestowed on them. From the rising to the setting sun, may His kingdom come!"
~Samuel Adams, - After signing the Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776

"Religion and good morals are the only solid foundation of public liberty and happiness." -
~Samuel Adams. Letter to John Trumbull, October 16, 1778

"If ever the Time should come, when vain & aspiring Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government, our Country will stand in Need of its experienced Patriots to prevent its Ruin."
~Samuel Adams, - Letter to James Warren, October 24, 1780

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 4:01PM

Margie, Those are worth remembering. Thanks

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 4:23PM

YW.
That's text for "You're Welcome", or so I hear.

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 5:10PM

OK, which I think is American for OK.
LOL

Drunken Sailor| 10.19.11 @ 2:26PM

Read, Derek has a large family, is making more off exemptions than he pays out, and is worried about his own skin. Not the country.

Derek Leaberry| 10.19.11 @ 3:26PM

I put my family and church before country as any thoughtful conservative would. As for the taxes, the national debt problem isn't that enough taxes are not coming into big government's coffers. The problem is that both political parties have wildly overspent and are a two-headed monster in support of the big, tyrannical govenrment.

Drunken Sailor| 10.19.11 @ 3:39PM

Ahh yes, grasshopper, but you didn't deny my statement. By all means put your family and church first in your personal priorities but remember by putting your country there as well you are looking out for your family and church.

Sean| 10.19.11 @ 4:14PM

Derek, you should support Ron Paul. He is the ONLY one running that would make significant cuts to spending.

The Big E| 10.19.11 @ 10:58AM

Ken,

My respect for you is one big thing which led me to look so seriously at Gov. Perry when he got in, but frankly, I've been quite disappointed.

I understand your point about the purpose of the debates, and you're exactly right about that, but that doesn't change the fact that during these debates Gov. Perry has not been effective at communicating his principles and ideas in a simple, convincing manner. And for any conservative politician, communication is the key to success.

Republican Presidents, and by extension, Republican Presidential candidates, must be effective communicators to be effective leaders because there is a whole troop of professional communicators (i.e. - the media) who will do everything within their power to thwart and distort anything and everything the Rep. President or candidate says or tries to do, while shilling full time for his opponents. The most effective way to overcome this is through simple, effective communication of one's principles and ideas.

Skill at communication is what made Ronald Reagan so effective as a leader. It's what makes Rush Limbaugh so effective as an influential thinker. In other words, it's not just the principles and ideas, but the ability to effectively communicate those ideas and principles, which is so important.

Gov. Perry could be right about everything, he could have the best, most sensible ideas of any candidate up there, but if he cannot effectively communicate those ideas, then he has no hope of implementing them.

Because of his inability to communicate effectively, he offers, at best, a stop-gap alternative to Obama. Herman Cain, because he is such an effective communicator, offers much more in the way of leadership potential in the long run (i.e. - AFTER November 2012), despite his limitations compared to other Republicans at this time.

Romney offers us only a choice between death by hanging and death by lethal injection.

So, among the conservatives in the field (Cain, Perry, Santorum, and Bachmann), at this time, I have to go with Cain.

Frank Drackman| 10.19.11 @ 9:09AM

I don't care if Rick Perry WAS an Air Force Pilot...
he's still a Sissy-boy.
C-130's in the mid 70's isn't quite a B52-D in "LinebackerII"...
and what a Sissy, letting Mitt Goodhair put His hand on Ricks shoulder, like he was a little kid who needed to be quiet...
and who HASN'T hired an illegal or two?
I don't know if our hot Bosnian Houskeeper's Visa is Kosher, what am I, an INS agent?...
and when Perry said he was "Offended" by Bachman's inference that he took a $5,000 bribe.
REAL men don't get "Offended", they do the Offending...
And acting like $5,000 was beneath him, Jeez-Us Thurston Kerrey III wasn't as hoity-toity as that...

Frank

Ken (Old Texican)| 10.19.11 @ 11:27AM

Frank,
are YOU a pilot?
Have you served in the military at all?

I'm a pilot. There ARE NO sissy-boy pilots!

Frank Drackman| 10.19.11 @ 11:37AM

Ken,
NO, I'm not a Pilot, not a Homo or Sissy either, doesn't mean I can't spot one.
My Dad was, not in the Military.
He flew B-52D's in the Air Force, and HE was the one who said it wasn't the "real" military.
I mean what Military Air Force lets pilots wear Cowboy hats and Fu-Man-Chews??
I was just one of those guys who did flight physicals, and I'd conveniently forget about the rectal exam for a little "Stick" time in an Fa-18...
In which I've got 0.4 hrs "PIC" time.
Thats "Pilot in Command"
How many you got?
and airplanes without Ejection Seats/20mm Cannons don't count.

Frank

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 12:59PM

My Tony Lamas looked real good under my flight suit. Of course in Thailand the bootmakers turned out nice product for about thirty bucks. 8th Tac fighter wing and we had C-130 gunships as well. Now those guys could fly. Tough duty with 105mm's on board.

Ken (Old Texican)| 10.19.11 @ 1:42PM

Heh, Frank
I've got about four thousand hours logged. God only knows how many I forgot to log. (My companies owned the planes).

Single engine, (mostly Bellancas), from coast to coast, Canada through Peru...no co-pil0t.
So you have .4 hours...heh on autopilot. You ever landed or taken a plane off...all by yourself? Of course not. You are the sissy boy.

Perry flew where he was sent. He got an honorable discharge. I can guarantee you there was some "pucker time" on those missions. Sir, you are a disgrace to every service member! Kiss my butt.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 3:17PM

So now this is a pissing contest about who flew what and for how long?

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 4:00PM

Margie, Its a pilot thing. Macho stuff.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 4:18PM

Al Adab, I'm still mad at you. Why did you feed me to the wolves?

But yes, the tune, "Macho, Macho Man" comes to mind:

(You might want to close your eyes when watching, though):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO43p2Wqc08

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 5:13PM

Margie,
I am pained that you are angry with me. Still, I look forward to meeting inside the Western Gate on that day. We can hug and make up then, if not in this world.

Margaret| 10.19.11 @ 6:48PM

You feed yourself to the wolves because you are your own worst enemy.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 8:04PM

TROLL ALERT.

Margaret| 10.19.11 @ 9:17PM

You keep proving how dense and stupid you are with each comment. Keep it up.

Margie| 10.20.11 @ 4:15PM

Paul-bots are always liars.
Get a life, and mind your own business.

Frank Drackman| 10.19.11 @ 4:55PM

4000 hrs???
like I said, Non-Ejection Seat/No Cannon doesn't count...just like kissin your sister.
Which I never understood, my Sister was HOT...
and 0.4 is more than "O" last time I checked...
which sounds like how much actual military time YOU have..
I know, they didn't let Homos join back then...
and I've got some 13 solo hrs in T-34Cs till the Navy wouldn't let me abuse, I mean fly them anymore..

Frank

Michael Tomlinson| 10.19.11 @ 1:01PM

Ken:
Speaks volumes about Cain supporters. At least Perry actually takes on Romney unlike Cain who seems to be an adoring fan of Romney. I'm starting to think those who think Cain is in this to help Romney may have a point.

Simon Templar| 10.19.11 @ 1:51PM

MT,

What speaks volumes about Cain supporters?
What speaks volumes about Perry supporters?
What speaks volumes about Gingrich supporters?
What speaks volumes about Paul supporters?
What speaks volumes about Bachmann supporters?
What speaks volumes about Romney supporters?

Simon Templar| 10.19.11 @ 1:53PM

MT,

Michael Tomlinson| 10.19.11 @ 3:37PM

Should have said it speaks volumes about the emotional supporters of Herman Cain who, borrowing a term from you, who troll the gutter and Washington Post to attack the most successful conservative Governor in the US, because they can't attack his record of actually doing something about border control or sanctuary cities, enacting TORT reform, loser pays legislation to lower the number of frivilous lawsuits, acutally balancing a budget, cutting taxes and through his personal efforts bringing jobs and helping create more jobs in one state than the rest of the country.

His, Ron Paul's and Herman Cain's military service is commendable. It sets them apart from their GOP rivals. Those who have disparaged Cain's service are just as disgusting as this Cain troll attacking Perry's.

As for C-130 pilots I've sat in many with a load of combat grunts taking off from landing strips a civilian Piper Cub pilot would refuse to land on or take off from. Their skill and prowess are only demeaned by ignorant blowhards.

My opposition to Herman Cain is very simple his inexperience in foreign policy and his statements on the border are bad jokes, the regressive and punitive 9-9-9 tax increase, his unwillingness to join the other conservatives in signing socially conservative pledges, his support for gun control on the state and local levels (if he didn't understand the question as some claim that's worse), his unwillingness to be more forthright about his "economic" team, his lack of respect or understanding for the 10th Amendment, his unwillingness to stand by his own statements or denying what he obviously said, a history of wild and outlandish remarks and despite his supporters claims his lack of transparency.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 3:45PM

"Should have said it speaks volumes about the emotional supporters of Herman Cain.."

So, we're just too damn STUPID to know a man of substance, eh, Tomlinson? It's all based on emotion?
Screw you, bud.

And we "troll the gutter?"
You are SICK.
You have now joined yourself with the scum Clint, who you are in agreement with.
And before you try and say "Oh, your language proves what I'm saying!"

Does not your blatant lying about Herman Cain and those of us who consider him an excellent candidate far FAR outweigh my angry reaction?

Despicable.

Michael Tomlinson| 10.19.11 @ 4:44PM

Margie you make my point even though I was talking about Frank who really was trolling the gutter with sissy man and homo statements. The fact you took it to mean you and all Herman Cain supporters says more about you and your view of Herman Cain and his supporters than mine.

Frank's lack of knowledge about the military of the 70's was glaring. I think Perry, Paul and Cain should be respected for their military service and disparaging it is disgusting.

My opposition to Cain is based on taking a closer look at, after I dropped him for Rick Perry, just to be sure I was back the right candidate for me. I was for Cain when you were touting Michelle Bachmann.

When I was supporting him over Bachmann and Santorum I made excuses for his actions, because of his inexperience and not really taking serious what he did, because generally what he said was spot on. On closer scrutiny my first support for Herman Cain was misplaced, because his actions were often more like Romney's than the other conservatives. It's that simple.

Are all his supporters Frank's. No. But some of you are sounding more and more like Ron Paul supporters.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 4:59PM

Your post was in reply to Simon, as it was under his as such, so you can't pin that on me.

All I have to say to you is: You are pretty despicable!

You lie an awful lot. And I wasn't "touting" Michele Bachmann, either.
What a snarky thing to say.
To say we are like Ron Paul supporters?
Actually, since you see fit to blatantly lie both about Herman Cain AND his supporters here, and repeatedly so: puts you in Clint's camp~ who, you agree with.

In short, both of you are cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

Michael Tomlinson| 10.19.11 @ 5:13PM

Learn to observe. Simon asked me twice about the statement I'd posted to Ken "Speaks volumes about Cain supporters?" A fair question that deserved a better answer, because I (like you've done) appeared to be lumping all Cain supporters into one group. I wasn't so I gave Simon a more thorough answer.

No I agree with Clint on 9-9-9 as do roughly 75% of Republicans who do not support Herman Cain. Even one of the 9-9-9 authors acknowledges the national sales tax isn't doable. I also agree with the 69% of Americans who rejected a similar idea from Nancy Pelosi in 2009.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 7:45PM

I'm observing the big picture, Michael.
And I think I've got it pretty well.

You can't stand Herman Cain. You make stuff up about him in order to try and prop up who you are for, and that's not good.

In truth, is it that you are not at all for a flat tax, then?
Isn't Herman Cain's idea worthy of consideration?
It will be tweaked, and gone over and fine tuned as I think they are doing with it now, but why wouldn't you want to scrap the current tax code?

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 7:42PM

Uh Oh !

American Spectator's Resident White Trash Maniac Bigot Apocalyptic Crank Lady Margie Is Badmouthing Tea Party Clint .

Cain's 9-9-9 Is Dead, Dead, Dead In The Water.

Real Conservatives Won't Allow Big Government To Have A National Sales Tax & An Income Tax.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 7:49PM

No, Ron Paul-bots "will not stand for it."
Who cares what they (you) think?
You're a disgusting lying punk who is a Blame America Firster piece of trash.

"Transgression speaks to the wicked deep in his heart; there is no fear of God before his eyes.

For he flatters himself in his own eyes that his iniquity cannot be found out and hated.

The words of his mouth are mischief and deceit; he has ceased to act wisely and do good.

He plots mischief while on his bed; he sets himself in a way that is not good; he spurns not evil." Ps. 36:1-4.

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 9:00PM

God Knows You Are A Nasty Ass White Trash Religious Bigot,Margie.

So Do Many Of American Spectator's Readers.

See A Religious Counselor & A Shrink.

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 11:54PM

Margie,
No need for a defense here. Coming from Clint this is a compliment.

Margie| 10.20.11 @ 4:16PM

Thank you.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 3:19PM

Michael T,

Actually, if you look around the posts here and in the prior weeks, you would notice that the Old Texican is a pretty firm supporter of Rick Perry, not Herman Cain.

Then you aver that Herman Cain is in this to help the Rino Romney, Mr. ObamaLite.

What else do you know that just isn't so?

Michael Tomlinson| 10.19.11 @ 4:25PM

Actually, you don't comprehend I agree with Ken. Since you have trouble with comprehension you might want to watch who you lecture.

As for Cain being a "stakling horse" for Romney I do find his actions strange. He had no trouble savaging Rick Perry when he was front runner (even stooping with Romney to use a WAPO smear job in a subtle attack). Cain for all his opposition to Obamacare has been mild in his criticism of Romneycare. Of course, he was a big supporter of Romney in 2008 and defended Romneycare then so maybe friendship, a shared philosophy or even an unwillingness to be tied to Romney has him biting his tongue. Time will tell.

I know as others have pointed out it was strange Mitt Romney told NH voters to vote for him or Cain and they'd be happy. He didn't do that for Bachmann or Perry when they were beating him. Why would he do that for Cain?

The Romney-Cain relationship is just a bit strange, but it is politics and sometimes motives can be convoluted.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 3:20PM

Perry took on Romney?
LOL!
How?
You mean with that phony, "You hired illegal aliens to mow your lawn" stuff, when Perry loves giving free tuition to them?
Yeah... OK.

Michael Tomlinson| 10.19.11 @ 5:05PM

Yes, Perry who is running ads attacking Romneycare (unlike Cain who doesn't touch it). Perry who pointed out, as did the conservatives in 2008, that Romney hired illegal aliens. But I guess that's ok to do it personally since Cain may have done in the food industry too.

As for what the people of Texas do through their legislature on in-state tuition that's our business. If the people of Texas think it is the wrong thing to do then they'll remedy that. Of course, a future Federal law could trump it, but until then Texas will deal with the issue as Texas chooses to deal with it. That's what the 10th Amendment that you, Cain and Romney don't like is about. Since you probably don't know Rick Perry came out against the Democrat national "Dream Act." He's also the only one that's actually put into action plans to secure the border. As the Border Patrol keeps telling people if they'll listen "boots on the ground will stop the problem" and Perry's done that with state resources, but really this is a Federal issue and should be addressed by the Feds. Blame Reagan's amnesty and citizenship for making this issue worse than it needed to be.

I'm curious why didn't Herman Cain, when he was chairman of the National Restaurant Assoc., do something about the problem in his industry about the massive hiring of illegal aliens? If he's as smart as he seems he knew it was going on when he was chairman of the NRA so why didn't he do something about it? Wouldn't that have made a big difference in the number of illegals who come here for work in the food industry? Seems like Herman Cain was aiding and abetting the hiring of illegals throughout the country and thus encouraging them to come here. What if he hired illegal aliens and knew about it? Oh, that's right you think that's ok. Just one more think that would make him like Romney.

I know Herman talks a good talk and even like to joke about electric fences, but when he could have actually done something about the issue he did nothing. Just another big gap between Herman's talk and his actual actions.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 7:35PM

Better watch it Michael, if you hire some guys to do some landscaping that you vet them first!
LOL.
How utterly ridiculous that you are actually taking that stance~ and then to throw in that Herman Cain "MAY" have done the same thing.

And here I thought you were a genuine mature man.
It seems to me that like Rick Perry, you can only prop yourself up by trying to put others down.. like the Trolls do here daily with anyone who takes a stand on truth.

And like a good Paul-bot type you don't even see the hypocrisy in Perry's lame attempt? The man who gives free tuition to illegals?

Ugh.

LOL. So now, I don't like the 10th amendment, either?
And Herman Cain aiding and abetting illegals? You make the charge and then you say, what if?
And then you have the audacity to say I approve of it IF it's true?

What IS it about some men who think they can just make stuff up and then get away with it?

Answer: You aren't going to get away with it! There IS a God and He is Just.

False accusations will get you nowhere, and you are indeed behaving exactly like a Paul-bot.

If the people choose Rick Perry, they will choose him.
But if they don't, it's no one's fault but his own.
He is coming off weak, and I'm not sue why.. but personally, I don't think he really wanted to do this.

Mimi| 10.19.11 @ 9:17AM

Last night Herman Cain took the heat pretty darn good...he kept his cool the best! that in itself you have to like!!!
Romney and Perry both had their better selfs and intellect put on the shelf and let pure emotion take over.....interesting ....we will be seeing re-runs of the un-attractive, unappealing lack of maturity showed on both their parts!
Why hasn't Rick Santorum got some traction?...when we finally get to hear him he's making the most sense.
Newt....he stayed out of the frey...wisely! Came across as Head, Father, Grown-up..of course stuck up for himself, rightly when Romney accused him of the " Mandate Idea"
If CAIN gets on top and stays there we have before us " A POTENTIAL BELOVED PRESIDENT"....Newts last line of the night was on the money...A CONSTITUTIONAL Government going forward....According to Mark Levin he needs to be questioned on a need for " Green " conservatism and Carbon decrease...he has to clear this up....the subject is "OLD news and most conservatives don't bye the carbon "scare"

Derek Leaberry| 10.19.11 @ 9:42AM

Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan guarantees substantial tax increases for half of Americans including a large portion of the Republican voting base, especially religious voters with large families whose mothers homeschool rather than work outside the home. If Cain is the Republican nominee, Barack Obama will drill Cain on 9-9-9 and win a landslide election that he should lose.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 10:30AM

Self-centered, stupid statist.

C.K. Amos| 10.19.11 @ 11:29AM

"If Cain is the Republican nominee, Barack Obama will drill Cain on 9-9-9 and win a landslide election that he should lose."

You and your tribe, be it the Democrat/progressive/liberal/leftist Party or the establishment Republican Party or the RINOs, shake in your shorts and panties that Herman Cain could face and defeat Barack Obama.

What could be more American, though--and that's the fear you and the others have: Cain is authentic, has a body of writings that present his conservative views, common sense, real-world business experience, verifiable academic credentials, government service and a heart for America and Americans--and would be the first real black American to be president.

He's also confident in who he is and had the courage and drive to leave the Democrat/progressive/liberal/leftist Party plantation.

He also has Tea Party support.

Thus, Romney is the darling of the DPLLs, RINOs and driveby media.

Hobbes| 10.19.11 @ 9:42AM

What debate were you watching RSM? Cain knows 0 about foreign policy. Totally clueless. He flubbed every question put to him last night. Why are you always supporting the most inept candidate? Palin, Cain. Are you some kind of Democratic mole?

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 10:31AM

You might be one...

Hobbes| 10.19.11 @ 12:37PM

As might you.

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 1:02PM

Hobbes:
Current president knows Zip about foreign policy. His trouble though is that he lets ideology get in the way of reality. Wolkenkuckkucksheim is the word. So any new President will do a better job of knowing friends from enemies. This President has a little problem with enemy identification.

W| 10.19.11 @ 6:02PM

Al.
Let's be fair, Obama knows there are 57 states, and knows his enemy is the Republican party, specifically the tea party conservatives.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 3:27PM

DTOM;

Read my posts - if you can follow the logic, you'll see pretty clearly that I am not a Democratic plant.

Your record here consists of an unsupported assertion that one candidate knows nothing about foreign policy, an unsupported claim that that he is "clueless," and that he "flubbed every question," again unsupported by any fact, thought, argument, anything.

Then you made it clear that you are not a fan of Sarah Palin. Then of course you spit at RSM.

I find in all this only indications that you ARE a Democrat plant, none that you are not.

Ball's in your court, Hobbesian one. Show us what you got...

Simon Templar| 10.19.11 @ 3:20PM

Hobbes, name me one presidential candidate other than Bush senior ( he had some with his CIA leadership) that was an expert on foreign policy in the last century?

Waiting.

Just where does a governor, a senator, a rep or anyone for that matter get this significant experience and depth you require?

Every single candidate has to learn and develop a perspective. It has never been a critical factor or requirement until now. Almost all learn this on the job and are exposed to the complexities and state secrets after winning the White House.

Asking a candidate whether he would trade 1000 prisoners for one American is ridiculous and absurd. There is no good answer and it is a loaded, gotcha question. Grow up.

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 3:58PM

Simon:
At risk of getting crosswise with you (something I do not desire) Nixon.

W| 10.19.11 @ 4:21PM

Al Adab
Truman and Eisenhower were excellent on foreign policy. Truman dropped the bombs to end the war, the Marshall Plan, Berlin airlift, and the containment policy against communism. Eisenhower ended Korean war, and more importantly kept us out of Vietnam in 1954. We were powerful and respected from 1945 to 1960.

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 5:15PM

W:
"The world will never love us, but they should always respect us."
T. Roosevelt

W| 10.19.11 @ 6:03PM

Al,
Under Obama they neither love us or respect us or fear us.

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 11:52PM

How sad and how true.

Simon Templar| 10.20.11 @ 2:51AM

And neither men had extensive foreign policy experience before taking the office of Presidency, particularly Truman.

Simon Templar| 10.20.11 @ 2:49AM

Al, it is Ok, it is ok to disagree.

Perhaps Nixon is a good example but he was a VP.
This is where he got the opportunity to learn and the foreign policy exposure and the white house briefings. He was the exception, not the rule, and he lost to a senator that had little experience.

My point is that most did not, and those in the most recent times did not as this has not been an issue until recently. The MSM gave a rats ass about it 3 and half years ago but now it is critical.

farmboy| 10.19.11 @ 9:53AM

I like Cain's proposal. The sales tax would encourage savings and anything that helps get rid of the gorilla of the tax code we have I'm for it but the new tax worries me. I could live with it if first a balanced budget amendment with a % cap of GNP and a super majority requirement for raising taxes is in place before the new tax is put in place.

Bob Grant| 10.19.11 @ 10:00AM

Folks, you've got to remember Cain has a degree in mathematics and has a very analytical mind. For the most part he thinks linearly and not in the abstract.

This explains why he continues to tell people who criticize his 999 plan to go to his website and calculate the numbers because that is what HE would do!

As soon as you accept this fact about him and look beyond it, you'll see there's more substance than first blush.

I like the fact that he's a logical thinker with common sense because it's exactly what we need. He's not a B.S.er who parses words with lawyer-speak. If he plays his cards right he could use this attribute to his benefit but would require a good political adviser to devise the best approach.

Herman, if you're reading this, please spend some money on a good adviser. You've got a good shot a pulling off an upset.

JimH| 10.19.11 @ 10:01AM

Remember, before he made pizzas Cain was a mathematician and rocket scientist. If you accept his assumptions the 999 plan probably does add up. Unfortunately those assumptions and other parts of the explanation don’t fit in the sound bite windows offered in these so called debates. We certainly need to replace what is now in place with a flatter, simpler tax plan. I have some reservations regarding the sales tax portion. That said, it is a least a specific plan that heads in the right direction. It does bear serious discussion. Has he released any documentation for this plan?

Conserdude| 10.19.11 @ 10:02AM

I love Herman Cain, but I don't think he's ready. He stumbles too much over public policy, including his own tax reform plan and especially on foreign policy matters. As for Gov. Perry, his attack on Romney's hiring of a contractor employing illegal immigrants came off mean and cheap. Perry's best strategy is to stop trying to bring Romney down, and instead elevate himself as a serious leader with strong ideas in contrast to Obama's failures. That alone will overtake Romney. Most Republican voters already don't like Romney, so they don't need poorly-delivered attacks by Perry to remind them. Rather, they need Perry to prove himself a viable alternative, which he has yet to do.

The Big E| 10.19.11 @ 11:03AM

Great comment Conserdude.

Spot on analysis.

Simon Templar| 10.19.11 @ 1:45PM

Dude,

So, whats up dude? Does Dude have anything constructive to say or any solutions? Does dude see the inherent contradictions in his diatribe. Is dude an understudy of Rove?

I do not think dude is ready for anything let alone shoot his mouth off.

Conserdude| 10.19.11 @ 4:53PM

Sorry that you find truthful analysis hard to accept. I happen to like Cain the best and am bothered by Romney's inevitability as the nominee. I've said before on this website he's a policy chameleon and a rehash of George H.W. Bush, which is not what the country needs. But no one among the GOP field has shown sufficient ability to take and solidify the lead. There's still time. Oh, and I turned on Rove after his despicable attacks last year on Christine O'Donnell. She was a flawed candidate, but could have used help from the GOP once she defeated Mike Castle, rather than a knife in the back from the Roves of the world.

Conserdude| 10.19.11 @ 4:57PM

Also, I offered "constructive solutions:" Perry should promote himself and quit attacking Romney since he doesn't need to do so to get ahead (and he's also lousy at leveling attack lines); and Cain needs to brush up on details on his 9-9-9 plan and foreign policy by talking to some experts on the subject.

Anthony| 10.19.11 @ 10:17AM

Herman Cain is a man of substance. Whatever shortcomings he lacks in political polish, (a good thing), he makes up for in common sense and a healthy ego that acknowledges that he does not have all the answers.
Men and woman with these leadership qualities know when to ask and from whom to ask, unlike our arrogant empty suited Muslim Marxist, who can't answer the phone at noon, let alone 3 am.

Fallgold| 10.19.11 @ 10:24AM

I like Herman Cain a lot, but the 9-9-9 plan will never fly. The fact is, 50% of the country does not pay any income tax now. (When it gets to 60%, the Republican Party is history). If the plan took effect, they would get hit with a 9% income tax and a 9% sales tax, and they will go nuts.

I think everyone should pay income taxes, but the reality is that the "tax consuming" side of the population will never vote themselves more taxes. Remember also that the Republicans had a part in taking a large number of these people off the tax roles.

Cain would do well to indicate that he is at least open to discussion of his plan, otherwise he will be on defense for the whole campaign.

Simon Templar| 10.19.11 @ 1:40PM

Have you read the plan on his site and the details?
I think not. If his plan will never fly and those who do not pay taxes will never allow or will stop any reform, then why don't we just issue revolvers and a few bullets to every tax paying household.

Discussion, is that what you call it?
It's no discussion, it is a smear slander and misinformfest of 10 second sound bites.

Instead of whining, undermining and complaining try offering some of your own tax reform solutions since you seem to be an expert economist so certain that his plan will never work or fly or has any value.

We are waiting.

martin j smith| 10.19.11 @ 10:28AM

Whatever problems with Cain's 9x3 plan--one thing is apparent. Not only does he really want to be President and believes he can do it--he is a thinking man and that is more than I can say for many on the stage. he has come out with more honest remarks about the Socialists than most if not all in the debates: For instance he said on one recent news program what many of us know: Obama wants to bring down the economy.

Having said that I would say making a choice now is way too early. I think Romney and Perry need more vetting
And, in the regard I think what I need is a disucssion of how each candidate feels about Free Market Capitalism as opposed to Obama's agenda which is Socialism. For example do these candidates " understand" and appreciate the Occupy Movement or do they see this mob as a political too of Obama's with potential for violence and with a message that reflects the so called Democrat Party ( Socialists ) and is support financially and morally and morally by the Socialists. I am looking for honesty and knowledge of where people really stand.
Recently I think both Christie and Romney made remarks regarding the Occupy Crowd that disturbed me. For example the non-candidate Christie compared the Ocuppiers with the Tea Party. I am glad he is not running--but we still have to vet Romney much further.

Redstateboy| 10.19.11 @ 10:28AM

I couldn't believe what I was hearing last night..! Conservatives attacking Cain's 9,9,9, plan because!! OMG!!! some people not paying taxes now would... wait for it...., begin having to pay taxes!!?!

Simon Templar| 10.19.11 @ 1:11PM

You were the only person in this thread to notice the elephant in the room. Some of these so-called conservatives would rather sit around and whine and bitch about the fifty percent not paying taxes with no skin in the game than do something about it. The rest of the time we can complain that there are no candidates willing or bold enough to even discuss this tax code nightmare and have no plans..oh..wait..here is one now...yeah..let's tear him to shreds.

Maybe, we are destined to lose this nation to socialist.I am sick to my stomach of the plain stupidity, cynicism, whining, complaining, self destructiveness of conservatives.

Redstateboy| 10.19.11 @ 10:30AM

What we neeeeeed is a candidate with the Balls to say - and I've only heard Perry say it - that Man Made Global Warming is total BS!

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 3:37PM

RSB,

You need to listen to more candidates.

Herman Cain does believe in Global warming. He believes "Manmade global warming is poppycock."

Lookkee here: http://iceagenow.info/2011/10/.....poppycock/

I didn't hear Rick Perry calling it names!

And then Herman Cain went on to call 'Cap and Trade' just a tax, which is exactly what it is...

I don't know if calling it names is ballsy enough for you, it is for me.

Oldefarte| 10.19.11 @ 10:43AM

I like Cain but not his '9' plan. Our immediate problem is SPENDING/EXPENSES, not REVENUE/TAXES. Cain's non-PC, business decision making capabilities would be a tremendous plus as president [all that is necessary is his ability to tell his underlings/subordinates what he wants done and then to hold them responsible for carrying out his wishes, Reagan-style]. I like Paul's recently issued plan to downsize government, and same is outstanding/precise/detailed/necessarily accurate, but I don't share his libertarisms regarding unlimited freedoms. I like Perry's devotion to energy development within this country as a source of good jobs, national security and a domestically produced supply of critically needed oil, but I don't like his Christian Conservatism regarding providing governmental benefits to illegals. I like Romney's opinions regarding revamping our lost domestic manufacturing base etc in addition to Perry's sole emphasis on energy development, but i don't like his Romneycare. I like Newt's intelligence and debating skills, but I don't like his unreliable quirkiness. I'm not a big fan of Santorium, as he tends to whine a lot, and he couldn't even win his home state of Pennsylvania. I like Bachmann's combativeness, intelligence and tax-law experience, but sadly she is failing to obtain political support. In essence, most of these Republicans have advantages and disadvantages to date, and the game is early yet. The main point is WHO BEST IS SUITED TO DEFEAT THE CURRENT COMMUNITY ORGANIZER IN CHIEF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Frank Drackman| 10.19.11 @ 10:47AM

The "Poor" need to be taxed more...
In fact the marginal tax rates should go DOWN the more you earn, heck, maybe even phase it out at some level like they do with FICA...
The "Po" only waste it on Malt Liquor, Cigarettes, and Lottery Tickets anyway...

Frank "Tax em to the Stoneage" Drackman

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 3:38PM

Wait, there's tax on Liquor, Cigarettes, and Lottery tickets..

Frank! you just made my point for me! The poor will have these taxes replaced by a tax they can see!

Thank You Sir!

Con Chef (NB) | 10.19.11 @ 10:47AM

Boy, I'm I glad I skipped this last night in favor of NCIS & NCIS LA. All I needed to do was see the higlights of this farce to know that all it was was a schlong measuring contest between 2 guys who're SO PLAYED OUT, its not even funny. I'll stick to evaluating campaign speeches, press releases, articles & the like. These left wing media run debates are nothing more than a chance to make the 10-20 second sound byte. And that sound byte is NEVER gonna be something that puts the person who uttered it in a good light. Maybe we should spend more time telling the voters how we're gonna remove the Marxist thug from office instead of peeing in each other's ears.

Screw these debate farces.

Oh, & it was nice to see Ru Paul stay true to his irrelevant form. I just love all the useful idiots who keep sending him dough for his retirement fund.

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 10:58AM

" RON PAUL “PLAN TO RESTORE AMERICA”

TAXES:
Lowers the corporate tax rate to 15%, making
America competitive in the global market. Allows
American companies to repatriate capital without
additional taxation, spurring trillions in new
investment. Extends all Bush tax cuts. Abolishes the
Death Tax. Ends taxes on personal savings, allowing
families to build a nest egg."

The Tea Party RebellionIs Here.

Dan Hirsch| 10.19.11 @ 11:07AM

9% < 15%

Einstein!

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 11:28AM

Do Your Homework.

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Con Chef (NB) | 10.19.11 @ 11:56AM

NO ONE F-ING CARES, CLIT! YOUR DODDERING DOCTOR IS NOT GOING TO GET THE NOMINATION!!!

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 12:22PM

Aw !
Israel Firster Crybaby, Con Job Doesn't Care.

http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/.....people.jpg

Con Chef (NB) | 10.19.11 @ 11:56AM

NO ONE F-ING CARES, CLIT!!!

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 12:12PM

Unh, I think he calls himself, "Clint."

You may have a defunct "n" key on your computer, sir...

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 12:29PM

Ya Might Wanna Comb Your Hair Israel Firster Crybaby, Con Job.
Israhttp://www.grimmemennesker.dk/data/media/1/8_ugly_people.jpgel

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 12:33PM

Here He Is.

http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/.....people.jpg

Con Chef (NB) | 10.19.11 @ 12:50PM

I wasn't swayed the first 50,000 times you posted this over the last few months, Junior. What makes you think I care NOW?

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 1:09PM

Ya Might Wanna Change Your Diaper, Israel Firster Crybaby, Con Job.

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 1:12PM

" RON PAUL “PLAN TO RESTORE AMERICA”

SPENDING:
Cuts $1 trillion in spending during the #rst year
of Ron Paul’s presidency, eliminating #ve cabinet
departments (Energy, HUD, Commerce, Interior, and
Education), abolishing the Transportation Security
Administration and returning responsibility for security
to private property owners, abolishing corporate
subsidies, stopping foreign aid, ending foreign wars, and
returning most other spending to 2006 levels."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Dick Nome| 10.19.11 @ 1:23PM

You are a juvenile jerk. Grow up, loudmouth.

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 1:31PM

You're An Isarael Firster Crybaby Asshole.

Grow A Pair.

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 1:33PM

" RON PAUL “PLAN TO RESTORE AMERICA”

MONETARY POLICY:
Conducts a full audit of the Federal Reserve
and implements competing currency legislation to
strengthen the dollar and stabilize inflation."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Con Chef (NB) | 10.19.11 @ 3:12PM

More "mouf" breathing from the Alex Jones fellating Clint. I've gotta hand it to you, dude, you're more of an entertaining chew toy than any lib that's ever shown up here in the 4 years I've been posting here!

Threaten to kick anyone else's ass at your Tea Party organization lately, cyber toughie?

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 3:17PM

What's It Matter, Cupcake ?

You Ain't Gonna Do Anything About It, Crybaby Israel Firster, Con Job.

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 3:21PM

" RON PAUL “PLAN TO RESTORE AMERICA”

SYNOPSIS:
America is the greatest nation in human history.
Our respect for individual liberty, free markets, and
limited constitutional government produced the
strongest, most prosperous country in the world. But,
we have dri!ed far from our founding principles, and
America is in crisis.
Ron Paul’s “Restore America” plan slams on the
brakes and puts America on a return to constitutional
government. It is bold but achievable. Trough the bully
pulpit of the presidency, the power of the Veto, and,
most importantly, the united voice of freedom-loving
Americans, we can implement fundamental reforms "

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 4:10PM

"He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all. Our forefathers threw off the yoke of Popery in religion; for you is reserved the honor of leveling the popery of politics. They opened the Bible to all, and maintained the capacity of every man to judge for himself in religion."
~Samuel Adams, - Speech at the State House, Philadelphia, August 1, 1776

Just as our Forefathers threw off the yoke of Popery and came to America for the freedom to stand on the Bible for themselves as God intended, so it is that we have NO popery in our politics, and are not beholden to a King of Politics, nor are we commanded by anyone else to choose who they want us to choose for a candidate.

Try your lying Trolling elsewhere, it won't work here, and never has.

Papist| 10.19.11 @ 9:34PM

MULLAH ALERT!!
Bigot Margie now pasting Samuel Adams instead of drinking Samuel Adams.
You are the resident Bigot Troll, Mullah Margie.

Margie| 10.20.11 @ 4:20PM

LOL! Don't like Samuel Adams' truthful words?
Surprise, surprise, surprise.
JESUS is LORD, not the "Popey" nor ANY man.
Praise God for Jesus.
p.s. And how do you know whether or not I drink Sam Adams beer?
Mullah Papist coward.

George S| 10.19.11 @ 10:50AM

Where is Cain going to get this magic power to unilaterally implement his tax plan? Remember the Ryan Plan for Saving Everything? Neither do I.

It's one thing to say you are for a gimmick, and any tax scheme (ANY!) that imposes a flat or sales tax without the repeal of the 16th Amendment will bite us badly in the future.

Suppose we get rid of the 40,000 page tax code and replace it with a simple 9-9-9 or flat tax on income...

Question Number One: Please define "Income"? See the target rich zone this gives the Congress? Within two years we will have 40,000 pages of tax code describing what is and what isn't 'income'.

Question Number Two (circa 2024): Is it really fair that people making over a million a year are paying the same rate as everyone else? In the name of fairness, we are going to add a millionaire surcharge of 5% on income over a million. Who could be against that? But former President Cain said that you can't do that. Yes we can (See: Constitution, 16th Amendment thereto). Oh, and we are not going to index that for inflation -- you'll find out in thirty years why.

Instead of tinkering with tax schemes, Mr. Cain should spell out a plan for eliminating specific government agencies and red tape. That alone would save more money than any flat tax. Remember that this is about reversing Obama -- not picking the beauty contestant who has the best schtick.

chuck| 10.19.11 @ 5:36PM

Cain advocates the 9-9-9 plan to jump start the economy. The two major factors hindering business today are taxes and regulations. 9-9-9 lower the corporate tax rate from 35%, one of the highest in the world, to 9 %, one of the lowest. Business will flock to the USA. Lower taxes for business means lower prices at the counter. Competition will see to that. FICA is gone, so the employee half of 7.65 is gone. You really pay both half, you just don't see that in your check. So another 7.65 is gone. The tax rate goes from 15-28% down to a flat rate of 9%. You have more money in your check, a lot more money, and prices are lower because all the embedded taxes are gone, which will more than make up for the 9% sales tax. Plus the 9%sales tax will assure that the 20 million illegals in the country will be paying taxes too.
9-9-9 is good for business, which is good for jobs, and it is good for individuals.
Sucks for tax attorneys! Probably why Bachman hates it!

Who Knows?| 10.19.11 @ 11:20AM

Yes, Cain is apparently NOW a serious contender.

I try to never forget that the unstoppable arrow of time necessarily offers---teaching moments. Indeed, every second IS only an opportunity to learn, and thus be moved to act on the up-to-date knowledge.

Isn’t it obvious that the great majority of Americans NEED to be scared to death about the dire situation they are in? For crying out loud, here I am at the age of 69, and the political wars have been intensifying for many decades, with the enduring theme being about how unsustainable the “current” path we’re on is!

You can bet that 9-9-9 and Cain will forever be linked.

In an intractable negotiation, which has gone on for too long, there is the “throw a grenade” tactic. That is, make SOME offer that is so out there that it moves the debate off the snide.

Well, whatever you may BELIEVE, in contrast to what is true, about 9-9-9, the mere fact that this GRENADE has gone off and its “shrapnel” is NOW provoking existential pain in the noospheric nomenklatura is great news---and the first step.

Yes, the first need is to recognize the problem, so 9-9-9 is a potent way to get the message out---the economy, and in particular, the federal tax code, is beyond repair, in the conventional way!

There’s a whole lot of cognitive dissonance going on. As always, it comes down to fools or knaves,

My guess is that after almost a century of a federal income tax, which has grown into a strangling “weed”, most people are just too overwhelmed by a lifetime of dealing with the problem to know any better---they have been fooled to death, almost.

Then there are the smart ones, and they SHOULD know better, but PLAY the fool, being knaves themselves, to keep the status quo---even as it leads to a suicidal drop off the cliff.

What about the kid who noticed the emperor was wearing no clothes?

9-9-9 has elicited almost---ALMOST!---unanimous booing, but there is one KEY supporter—

Arthur Laffer!

Yes, the supply side guru, managed to get on TV and defend 9-9-9. And, since then?

NOTHING---that I’ve seen.

In science, it almost always takes a SINGLE person to “stand on the shoulders of giants” and shatter the complacent status quo. Einstein shook up physics, as did Father Max Planck.

I will keep an eye open for Laffer. Consider him a canary in the economic coal mine.

So far, pace what Mark Steyn presently thinks, the GOP contenders for president are not shook up enough. They are promising to only tweak the American economic system, whereas it needs to be radically returned to its beginning roots.

We’re watching a real world “Planet of the Apes” scene, with the political leaders pandering to the deluded masses being equivalent to the three apes, as they see no evil, hear no evil, and say no evil, while the born-free ancestors of 1776 America, played by the Charleton Heston character, struggles with his chains before them and tries to tell them the truth.

There are more apes than humans, these days, I’m afraid.

Tim the Enchanter| 10.19.11 @ 12:43PM

You must have been to the OWS demonstration.

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 11:27AM

What are Conservatives looking for? We have a sitting President with no experience in any business, political or foreign policy setting and yet we elected him to "stop the melting of the glaciers and the rise of the oceans"; to bring us Hope and Change even though we don't know what we wanted changed. Now we see where swtatist, collectivist policies lead and we are wanting a nominee more qualified than George Washington. Time to get realistic Conservatives. As Barry told us in 1960, "Lets get to work."

W| 10.19.11 @ 4:22PM

Al Adab,
Everyone here seems to love Cain. I respect your opinion. What are the conservative credentials of Cain?

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 5:26PM

W:
As of this writing I cannot answer as I have yet to see any manifesto of policy from Mr. Cain. That he is plain spoken and down to earth lends him an attractivness many here, and elsewhere, do gravitate towards.

If Conservatives stand for Limited Government; personal Liberty; self-reliance; opportunity for all; the federal system of seperation of powers and a political philosophy which recognizes our rights as inerent by virtue of our humanity not derived FROM government, but rather something to be protected BY government, then we can study any candidates positions against that litmus test.

Goldwater (yeah, I know it was Brent Bozell) wrote, "I am not interested in making it (government) more efficient for I intend to reduce its' size." There is or should be our clarion call.

W| 10.19.11 @ 6:06PM

Absolutely. I like Cain's demeanor but his tax plan is not clear. He should drop the 9% corp tax.

Len| 10.19.11 @ 11:46AM

BTW, here is Ron Paul's budget plan...

http://c3244172.r72.cf0.rackcd.....caPlan.pdf

Ken (Old Texican)| 10.19.11 @ 12:05PM

Folks,
One more time...

These so-called debates are rigged to be merely "poll-pushers".

Right now they, (mainstream media), are pushing Cain, and I would have no problem voting for him in the general...but you mark this down!
"They, (MSM), will lynch him sooner or later!"

Hell! I already see the brand of rope they will be using.....don't y'all?

How many times Have I read here bitching about "sound-bite campaigns"?

Big E,
thank you. I assure you the respect is mutual. I just have more experience arm-wrestling with gubmint Chiefs than most folks.

Perry has the ability and commitment to kick arse and call names in DC.....and will do so.

Also nice is that he is not a lawyer...we don't have to shoot him. (smile)

Bill A | 10.19.11 @ 12:42PM

I never watch these "debates" as they are simply a dog and pony show. Of the Republican candidates I have been most intrigued by Cain. Each has faults and strong points. The simple reality is that whoever wins the Republican nomination will get my vote. The alternative is quite unacceptable.
Ken, I always look forward to your input.

Simon Templar| 10.19.11 @ 1:23PM

Ken,

The mainstream media is not pushing anyone..perhaps attempting to push them off the political cliff with falsehoods, smears, and lies, yes. I am not sure where you are getting that. Right now they are just reporting that Cain is resonating with the electorate as the recent polls show. They can not ignore this and have to pretend to some extent that they are actually journalist.

You are spot on as far as these debates being essentially worthless circular firing squad circus acts. None of this is serving the public need for information, the conservative cause, or these candidates for that matter.

They will do everything to create the perception that all the candidates are worthless, not ready for national stage, and incoherent, missing one qualification or another from he is not a politicain to he does not have enough governing or foreign policy experience. This seems to not have been a problem for their poser, however.

Look at all the bloggers here echoing the same ridiculous liberal mainstream media talking points. Many of these are not liberal trolls, they are conservative bloggers.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 3:32PM

The MSM are pushing Cain he says?
That is laughable. Did you see how they started out the "show" last night? Yeah, they pushed him alright, or they wanted to... right off the stage.
Straight from the gate they tried to destroy him.
What a joke to say the exact opposite of the truth, Ken.
But then, that's what he does for a living.

Clinton| 10.19.11 @ 12:44PM

Another debate and Herman Cain refuses to go after his old pal Mitt Romney. Not only does he join Mitt in refusing to sign socially conservative pledges and support gun control at the state and local level, but he just can't bring himself to say anything about his good friend Romneycare Mitt. Not one negative word about old Mitt. No wonder Mitt thinks Hermans such a "great guy" & hopes gullible folks will swallow Herman's snake oil. From the postings here alot of people have jumped on the Cain train and buying into the liberal poison Romney's ringer is selling.

Sorry for all you fans of 9.99, but word is coming from one of Herman's fake economists WSJ writer Steve Moore that they've got to rethink the lunacy of the Nancy Pelosi sales tax. Just one more sign that the inexperienced Herman Cain is making it up as he goes.

You Canites have to tell Mitt's poodle to figure out what his message really is and stick with it. One day he's go to fry Hispanics on a fence, the nest day it's a joke. He's all for the Palestinian terrorists to have right of return to Israel, but no he supports Israel. Now he's figuring out real conservatives aren't stupid enough to buy into to his tax increase so that's got to change.

Simon Templar| 10.19.11 @ 1:27PM

Cain is limiting his attacks, like Gingrich, not just to Romney but to everyone.

Nothing you have just said can be backed up with anything.

Troll, somewhere else.

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 1:47PM

Cain at least seems to refuse to spill each others' blood. Save the ammunition for the Dems. After all are we the enemy of ourselves?

Simon Templar| 10.19.11 @ 2:25PM

Al, I am beginning to think we are our own worse enemies.

Now, both of us know that many of these comments here are trolls posing as conservative bloggers and some like Alan Brooks are just honest and self identify.

The general consensus of the other's division, self destructiveness, and incessant complaining seems to be reflected in the behavior, attitudes, and talking points of the candidates themselves and the talking heads in the conservative media.

Many just can not seem to get it into their heads just how stupid and unproductive all of this is nor the realization that this is a political movement and a clash of one ideology over another.

I have to sit hear and listen to fools tell me how this is good and productive, that the winning candidate will emerge strong and ready to take on battle. My god, maybe the liberals are right. We are stupid.

It is the cynicism, the whining, the incredible contradictions that get me the most. The only analogy, I can find that they might get is the use of General Motors. It is like creating an ad and marketing plan that has each GM division and car competing with each other in a campaign of smear, lies, distortions, and negativity on its own products and ignoring for the most part its competition and failing to show its diffentiation from its competitor. Instead of highlighting the strength of its brand and each individual lines unique strengths and letting the loyal public and its board pick the line best suited to compete in the coming ad wars and sales competition, they stress the negatives. Better yet maybe GM can get some Ford people to come over and design and help with creating the ads and presenting the lines.

Now, GM expects that a winner will emerge through this fierce evaluation and review and it will put that up against the competition in the start of the year for new car competition in the broad market. Gee, ya think that will work?

Ford sits there and laughs it's ass off and tells it marketing department to use the best negative criticism and ads GM just created on its so-called winner and start playing them 24 hours a day.

Kinda of insane, eh?

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 2:45PM

Simon:
Linda below has a good point. What are the debates if not structured to have our candidates eating each other to the detriment of the cause. Any of them who indulge in such b;oodletting should be disqualified by the voters. We need to focus on the goal aqnd stop shooting ourselves in the foot. The "what" of a candidate is much more important than the "who".

Simon Templar| 10.19.11 @ 3:03PM

Yes, Al, I am in complete agreement with Linda. She made a very original and insightful observation and comment.

I hope you understand what I was saying and enjoyed my GM analogy.

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 3:51PM

Well Simon lets just say I don't intend to buy a Chevy Volt anytime soon.

Michael Tomlinson| 10.19.11 @ 5:34PM

You forget his and Romney's attacks against Perry. Cain has been anything, but sparing in his attacks of Perry. Though, he has been gentle with Romney.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 7:10PM

I think you're seeing things. How bizarre. Did you watch the same debate?

Cain is standing on his own merits, he's got class.
He doesn't have the need to play little boy games. He corrected the others attacks on HIM.
And withstood it.
I say, bravo!

A.M. Mallett| 10.19.11 @ 12:57PM

The obfuscation that Romney employed against Cain's 999 plan should have been obvious to everybody. Cain attempted to point it out but did not do so very effectively. Romney is paying a state tax now and would continue to do so regardless of what the federal tax structure looks like. The relevant information that needs to be discussed with this is the comparison between existing federal tax burdens and the burden that would exist after the reforms. My numbers (sitting in the middle class) would be lower under Cain than under the existing structure.

linda| 10.19.11 @ 1:08PM

Is there any reason why we should pick a nominee by his debate performance (in what is really not a debate at all)? If that's a good idea then Newt, who has won them all, would be our nominee.
Seems to me that a president's job has very little to do with debating and having one of these circus' every other week is a dead bore and has ceased to inform. I can give all these guys 1 minute soundbites by heart. enough!

W| 10.19.11 @ 6:08PM

How do you decide who "won" a debate?

Clinton| 10.19.11 @ 1:26PM

That flushing sound is another crazy Hermitt Cain scam going down the toilet. Hopefully, Mitt Romney's "great guy" Herman Cain will be following his 9.99 recipe for disaster down the toilet with it very soon.

http://www.nationalreview.com/.....rew-stiles

Simon Templar| 10.19.11 @ 1:28PM

Can you do anything else than undermine, bitch, whine, and troll?

Drunken Sailor| 10.19.11 @ 2:43PM

Guess you missed the part as to why the guy thinks a change should be made and that he still like the original plan but thinks the new one will sell better.

"That’s not to say that Moore no longer likes the 9-9-9 plan in its current form. “I’d take a national sales tax if it gets [income-tax] rates down to nine percent,” he says. “But there are some very real objections out there.”

Moore acknowledges that despite the criticism from other Republicans, Cain has been a capable defender of the plan its current form. And while he doesn’t expect to see the candidate announce any changes in tonight’s debate, Moore thinks the transition could be relatively smooth. “Is it a capitulation? No. It’s just a strategic change,” he says."

Michael Tomlinson| 10.19.11 @ 1:42PM

Ken and Simon:
These debates have established one thing and that's Mitt Romney is the most polished of the candidates, but he still can't break out of the 20's. Herman Cain is affable, but his inexperience is showing as he discusses foreign policy, border control (it was a tasteless joke) and 9-9-9 just isn't selling as his numbers are still below the Perry highs. Rick Perry has a sound economic plan that will produce jobs, he did better in this debate and his record is solid, but he's climbing uphill. Michelle Bachmann is looking like her old self, but it's probably too late. Newt is trying to player elder statesman (I think he's interviewing for Secretary of State or another ranking cabinet position). Rick Santorum is earnest, but he's not catching on. Ron Paul is right about cutting Departments, but still WRONG, WRONG, WRONG on foreign policy. Jon Huntsman -- why?

Simon Templar| 10.19.11 @ 2:42PM

These debatees have established only what they want you to think, to 'know', and what they want you to see. You have seemed to have lapped it all up and now are running with it.

These debates are nothing but shallow media circuses designed to create a narrative and a visual.

Every single point you made was a talking point derived from a talking head, not a single point was original in thought or a personal observation. My god, you have used the exact same language like an echo chamber.

It has nothing to do with reality.
Cain is surging past Romney and all the rest in generica polls and is beating Obama. This guy is flipping the middle finger to all this speculative negative self destructive conventional political horse thinking and defying the pundits and all the talking heads.

That is a reality, not the frigin debates which most people are sick of and find to be just sensational worthless entertainment. I would rather watch big time wrestling. This is now a full year and a half out and you are throwing good candidates out, for these lame reasons? Who the hell do you think you are, Rove or the next genius?

Perry and many of the others may be the best for this nation but how will we ever know that given this current media morass.

Enough of this self masturbating speculation and cynical analysis.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 3:36PM

Excellent as always, Simon!!

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 4:13PM

Yes Sir! Very Good Sir!

Michael Tomlinson| 10.19.11 @ 5:32PM

If anyone is lapping up media spin it is Cain supporters. His numbers are still below Perry's highs (he'd have been wise to blow off the useless debates that seemed crafted to show-off Romney).

Before a vote has been counted Cain's supporters (like Romney's) think it is over. Four years ago at this time Romney is where he's at now followed by Guiliani and Thompson. McCain was at around 6% and being written off. It will be done when Republican primary voters say it is done not when we're told its done by the media or any of the candidates supporters. That's the beauty of democracy.

Margie| 10.19.11 @ 7:20PM

We're not a democracy, we're a Constitutional republic.
And it won't be done when any of the haughty Republican Establishment aka anti-Herman Cain types tell us it's done, either.

FYI~ McCain was puffed up by several things, which included the Media, Establishment Republicans (Rip Van Winkles), open primaries, and willing accomplices on the Left hand side, and the Daily Kos, who persuaded people to vote in the Republican primaries for McCain.

THAT is how we got McCain.

So now we need to promote our candidates, not put down the opposition.

Obama is the enemy, not our fellow Republicans.

It's one thing to not like a candidate's positions, but another thing to blatantly lie about them.

Margaret| 10.19.11 @ 10:34PM

Stupid people like you believe in conspiracies. McCain won because he won the primaries. Maybe some Democrats voted for him in open primaries as Republicans voted for Hillary in open primaries, but McCain won because Republicans voted for him.

Margie| 10.20.11 @ 4:23PM

Paul-bot alert!
LOL.
Get a life, stalker Troll.
Then, when you DO get a life, get back to me about how any of the things that I stated are true or not.
Right now you can't see past your little Paul-bot nose.

Jeamar37| 10.19.11 @ 1:55PM

Cain's 9-9-9 sounds simplistic but it is on the right track and obviously needs more refinement. But as Heritage Foundation points out it would replace 893 tax forms currently need with two; one for labor income and one for business and capital income. That in itself would be great progress. Many politicians and their complicit pundits deliberately try to confuse the public by saying this is the same as the European Value Added Tax whereby a tax is imposed at every stage of production where value is added and then a retail tax for the purchaser. E.g., when I make an item I pay a tax on all the supplies & materials each time I buy them. (This I will l likely pass on tp the the consumer in the cost of the
item.) Then on the final purchase the buyer also pays a retail tax.
Cain has the right idea but the idea man is Newt Gingrich, and he also is the most experienced and in my opinion the most intelligent. Too bad he has so much baggage. I guess like so many on this site I will have to vote for anyone but Obama.

Clint| 10.19.11 @ 2:00PM

Crony Capitalism.

"Report: Nearly half of state grantees donated to Perry

AUSTIN - Nearly half the companies that received Texas Enterprise Fund grants also made donations to Gov. Rick Perry's state campaigns or the Republican Governors Association, according to a report released Thursday by a watchdog group.

The governors association, which Perry twice chaired, has been his top state campaign contributor.

The report - "Perry's Piggybank" - by Texans for Public Justice says 43 companies gave nearly $7 million in political contributions to Perry or the RGA.

To date, 90 companies have been awarded $439 million in state economic development grants from the Perry-championed Texas Enterprise Fund.

The companies that gave political contributions to Perry or the RGA got $333 million, or about three-quarters, of the grant money. That includes companies that donated before or after signing their contracts for the grants."

The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.

Naturalborn Texicanette| 10.19.11 @ 2:09PM

I'm looking for substance and a proven track record. Soneone who will stand by his principles and not list from one side to the other and back again when it's convenient and to his advantage. Someone who speaks what he believes and those beliefs don't change everytime something new happens.

I'm looking for intergity, business savvy, someone who has great ideas....and knows HOW to implement them!!! Especially when it comes to jobs.

I want someone who can CLEAN HOUSE!!! Get rid of all the excess, stop the good-old-boy benefits and the cronyism!!! Cut down BIG government and put measures into place that will set term limits and end the "forever paychecks" that former members of Congress and other entities of government now recieve. Doing that ALONE would make a HUGE difference in our money problems.

I want someone who will be strong on defense and who will stand by Israel and our other allies. Someone who will kick the UN out of our country and cut ALL ties to that useless organization....

The list is endless...............

Is it Christmas yet?????

Michael Tomlinson| 10.19.11 @ 2:29PM

Art Laffer makes one statement in his WSJ op-ed on 9-9-9 that is 100% correct -- "the rate could be raised to the moon" by future Congress'. He's correct and as the history of taxes in this country and Europe show the trend is generally up (Kennedy, Reagan and Bush 43 were positive abberations).

Herman Cain's idea to enforce a two-thirds majority to raise his tax on future Congress' is not Constitutionally sound and would not survive a Supreme Court test anymore than the original Democrat plan to make it impossible for future Congress' and Presidents to repeal Obamacare. If Cain is serious he'd be proposing a Constitutional Amendment with 9-9-9, but he's not, because he knows how hard that will be to sell. Just as he knows repealing the 16th Amendment and replacing it with a Fair Tax is unlikely to happen in his lifetime. Though it is a far better idea than his 9-9-9.

I also read the National Review Online article too. Steve Moore, one of the authors of 9-9-9, is correct the national sales tax is not popular with a majority of Republicans or conservatives who rightly fear giving the Federal gov't another revenue stream. The alternative he proposes (read it for yourself) is much sounder and workable, but to imply it isn't a tax increae too may be stretching it without the details that Cain acknowledged really don't exist, because as he told the Wall Street Journal, "9-9-9 is a work in progress."

Before the GOP buys into this "plan." Herman Cain owes it to our party to put all his cards on the table. Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, Rick Perry, Michelle Bachmann, Jon Huntsman and Ron Paul have all made their plans public and in great detail it is time for Herman Cain to do the same thing or honestly tell the voters his whole campaign is a "work in progress" or a "joke," but now is the time to be forthright or we could go into next years election with a candidate who can't stand the scrutiny of a nationl election and then it will be too late. Affable and genial make for good neighbors and friends, but I'm not sure they're the most important things when electing a President.

Simon Templar| 10.19.11 @ 2:58PM

Once again you only parrot what you have heard, nothing is original, not a single point that is not a talking point. Cain's plan is out in specifics on his web site. The cards have been out on the table for some time and in great detail. Once again, the proposal contains a repeal of the 16th ammendment and a legislative rule that a two thirds majority of congress is required to raise rates in the future. You do not really care to recognize that or know that, do you?

You would rather repeat lame lies and distortions and echo liberal MSM talking points than actually sit down and come up with some original well thought out considerations and points.

You know damn well that Cain is more than an affable person and has a serious educational background, signifcant leadership experience in the business world, and has tremendous Reagan like communication skills which have been lauded to ad nausem as necessary for effective leadership.

Everyone of these candidates has greater positives and strengths than negatives and they certainly outweigh, by leaps and bounds, the qualifications of the current occupier on Pennsylvania avenue!

SassyFrass| 10.19.11 @ 3:29PM

Cain isn't the lightweight that the Paulbots try to make him out to be. But you can't call the 9-9-9 plan "well thought out," not when he keeps having to say that it's a work in progress, and not when one of the architects of the plan is talking about ditching a third of it, replacing the sales tax with a payroll tax, and not when he can't defend it beyond "apples" and "oranges."

Cain is one of the smartest ones up there. He's smart to avoid being pinned down on foreign policy specifics without knowing all the facts. But he keeps latching onto half-baked economic ideas like the gold standard and fair tax and the original 9-9-9 and the soon to be revised 9-9-9.

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 4:17PM

You can't explain it in 30 seconds either.

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 4:20PM

OK, so replace the current payroll tax (15%) with a 9% payroll tax, replace the current (effective) income tax rate on middle income families of 12% with 9%, and replace the corporate income tax rate of 29-38% with 9%. Then make up the revenue via growth.

What is your complaint?

SassyFrass| 10.19.11 @ 4:35PM

My complaint? Depends on whether you care about letting the facts get in your way or not.

The "effective income tax rate" may be 12% but you get that by averaging out a lot of people who pay zero with a smaller percentage who pay more. The revised 9-9-9 plan raises taxes on most tax payers, and cuts taxes on the rich. Go ahead and explain why that's a good idea and it makes the 47% who don't pay taxes have some skin in the game and it puts more money in the hands of job creators ... it's naive to think that you can run a national campaign on the idea of raising taxes on the poor and cutting taxes on the rich.

Not to mention that in spite of raising taxes on the poor and taxing the rich, Cain's plan would result in a huge drop in revenues. Go ahead and explain that this is a good thing, that it's how you starve the beast, that it's the only way to force social security and other entitlements to be privatized ... it's still a stupid way to run a political campaign.

What the tea party has given us is the kind of suicidal ideology that would rather lose with perfect sound bites than win and have to implement practical real world solutions. Then when they find their influence slipping they whine and call for some kind of ideological affirmative action where the ability to produce actual results is supposed to be ignored in favor of supporting ideological purity.

Simon Templar| 10.20.11 @ 3:47AM

Ah, the facts! Sassy facts! Made to order in Sassys basement for distribution to the blogosphere!
Complete with a free dose of arrogance and self important drivel.

Sassy Factor..the expert on everthing from macroeconomics to space exploration.

No need for credentials, degrees, or books! Cause every opinion is equal and all is propaganda, truth is relative and facts are in the eye of the beholder.

Simon Templar| 10.20.11 @ 3:11AM

It is not a piece of legislation, it is a concept, a proposal, a direction. He is a candidate not a senator. He has a great number of significant and respected economists and political wonks that think it has great merit and many of the plans aspects are of great value.

He said from the beginning that nothing was written in stone but that the plan offered a new way of looking at tax reform and a viable start.

Fair tax proposals are not half baked. What we have now is more than half baked, it is complete disaster.

Please, the candidates on that stage never read a single line of his proposal and most of the criticisms were incorrect, lame, and downright distortions. You should be thanking and admiring Cain that he had the guts and boldness to even bring the issue and his ideas forward.

Margie| 10.20.11 @ 4:24PM

Thank YOU, Simon!

PhilTheCapitalistPig| 10.19.11 @ 4:21PM

OCCUPY PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE!!! WOO!!!

Michael Tomlinson| 10.19.11 @ 7:02PM

Obviously, I know more about Cain than you do. Unless his website was updated this week it doesn't have a detailed layout of his plan. A brief overview, but details are skimpy. What about his plans for inner cities how is that going to work in detail? Why only inner cities and not rural poverty areas for special treatment? How in detail is it going to insure 9-9-9 isn't a regressive tax that hurts working and lower middle-class Americans? The argument they should pay something, more or are selfish isn't going to fly. Conservative philosophy from the time even before Reagan says people should pay less in taxes not more.

By reading conservative journals I know 9-9-9 is a so-called transitional plan allowing him time "to educate" the American people why to repeal of the 16th Amendment and implement the Fair Tax, but what if he fails to convince the American people? Cain early on flubbed a lot of interviews and his habit of denying he said it or it was a joke won't fly when he's in the Oval Office. So what if he fails we're stuck with a national sales tax and income tax that will eventually go up (look at the history of the income tax and how quickly it went up).

Herman Cain is a successful businessman, but so is Mitt Romney. Impressive for hiring a businessman, but President maybe not.

How did Cain save Godfather's Pizza? Was it by downsizing more than half the company? When he was chairman of the National Restaurant Assoc., did he do anything to combat the hiring of illegal aliens? If so why did he fail? If not why not? The food service industry is a major employer of illegals did Cain condone this? What did he do at the FED? He liked Greenspan, but what policies was he involved in or how did he shape the economy? What does he actually know about foreign policy? Does he even know anything about foreign policy? Has he ever traveled outside the US? Has he made deals with foreign companies? Bet most Cain supporters don't know and probably don't care, because he's genuine, affable and seems real.

To compare Cain to Reagan, because they're both good communicators is not only silly, but the ultimate in cheap spin. Obama tried it too. Yes, it's a cheap shot, but it proves anybody can make a claim to be like Reagan. Reagan was a successful Governor of California and twice ran for our Party's nomination. Cain is newbie inexperienced in gov't and basically an unknown. Granted many think that makes him the perfect candidate, but don't expect the Democrats to be so easily enamored or polite to him. As for those who think the amount or lack of melanin in a person's skin is important that is racism and should never be a reason to vote for or against a person.

The reality is your pushing spin and either you don't know it or don't care. I want my Party's candidate to be the best vetted and hopefully a conservative (beyond talk I'm not sure about Cain, because Romney talks it pretty well too), because the chances of us winning in 2012 are pretty good right now and I don't want to blow what could be a transformative election into just merely another Republican victory nor do I want a so-called great communicator who thinks he/she can talk us to better times. We've got that now.

Simon Templar| 10.20.11 @ 3:35AM

It is there in detail, as usual you skimmed the surface and did not go any further. There is a detailed economic description of the plan in a scoring report and a set of scoring tables on the web site. Look for the links.

Look, George Washington died a long time ago and is not available. I suggest you come out of the tower and join us on the ground here.

Please stop telling everyone what is possible and what is not. If people had been listening to your roll of bullshit in 2010, there would have been no Tea Party nor any national historic election of conservatives across the nation.

The only way the GOP and you can blow it is doing exactly what you are doing now....undermining our candidates, echoing liberal talking points, and taking continual negative potshots at everyone of them. Please, no lectures about the Tea Party purist. If it were not for those purist we would not have made any political gains.

You are just another troll, guessing a Paulbot because I do not see you attacking him. If we lose, it will be on your hands.

Not a single point you made has any credibility. It is just regurgitation.

Rick| 10.19.11 @ 2:42PM

Cane is a bigget and Rommy is a rasist!

Anthony| 10.19.11 @ 3:43PM

Rick, A nine word sentence with two mispellings. Bravo, you must be one of the leaders of OWS, or a member of Obozos's economic team of advisors.
But I have to hand it to you lefties, you see right through us, and that includes you Rick.
Yes, I support Cain because I am a closet racist and bigot, (that's RASIST and BIGGET to you) and Cain gives me cover. Whew, I finally got that out of my system!!!
I also am a misogynist, (that's WOYMAN hater to you) which is why I'm sad Palin is out of the race. You see, I love Gov. Palin; that's pretty bigamy ain't it??
Let's see, have I missed anything, you F'n moron??

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 3:49PM

Tony:
It's his facetious style. satire remember?

Anthony| 10.19.11 @ 4:02PM

So sorry Al, these sophisticates always get the better of me.

DTOM| 10.19.11 @ 4:30PM

Anthony;

We gotta get AS to give us a sarcasm font - they we wouldn't have these problems!

C'mon, AS! Give us the sarcasm font!!!!

chuck| 10.19.11 @ 5:43PM

Four misspelled words. Cain, not Cane....bigot, not bigget, Romney, not Romny, and racist, not rasist.

And I think my spell check just had a stroke!

DRed| 10.19.11 @ 4:42PM

The bottom line is you guys have a terrible group of candidates and you're probably going to get drubbed by Obama. Now you know how I felt when the Democrats nominated John Kerry.

Al Adab| 10.19.11 @ 5:28PM

But DRed, Kerry was the great hero of Vietnam, both for and against and he was reporting for duty when his nation called.

karl-marx-sucks| 10.19.11 @ 5:32PM

999 is just a moniker. So is 59 step plan or anything of this nature. Not a single President came close to realize his election promises or plans, maybe except 0-bamba. Wars, conflicts, urgent domestic economic and international problems dump on him like an avalanche. 2012 will be a year of Euro-zone crash, new wars in Middle East, a year of American financial crises of monumental proportions, the year of increasing Chinese dominance and Iranian nuclear thread, just for starters. What is really important is President’s character, his experience and ability to handle and resolve problems of such magnitude. I’m sure Cain will bring in more real experts, real free-market solutions, less “old good boys” then any other candidate running on GOP ticket. No “business as usual”, no “back to 2007”, no patching up old worn off trash. I’m afraid he’s the only one who can do it.
And would it be fun to watch him trading punches with the boy-king? Really, I’m looking forward to his debate with O.

Who Knows?| 10.19.11 @ 6:31PM

What do you know?

Today, the indispensible Wall Street Journal editorial pages featured Art Laffer, as he clearly presented his case for Cain's 9-9-9 plan.

We'll see if his cachet as a founding father of the supply side revolution matters, but anyone who wants to be "in the game" debating 9-9-9 absolutely must take what he writes into account. So far, though, as usual, practically all the "pundits" and journalists continue to exhibit their economic illiteracy.

And then, in the GOP presidential contending field, to hark back to what Mark Steyn wrote recently, we are suffering through a bunch of first rate second rate pretenders. Since they all must defeat their competitors, the game demands they must use all "by hook or crook" means to destroy Cain, and especially his most radical 9-9-9 plan.

Bet on the status quo apes---that's my opinion. Or, if "apes", via my earlier "Planet of the Apes" analogy offends, well, just marry extreme self interest and a slow learning "handicap", which characterize most people, and expect more of the same old same old results.

If H.R Block were a public company, one should always buy it's stock, especially when, as happens regularly, politicians propose a way to simplify the federal tax code.

SassyFrass| 10.19.11 @ 6:56PM

You failed to disclose that Laffer was one of Cain's advisors who came up with the 9-9-9 plan, so he's hardly impartial. That was before Cain had to patch the 9-9-9 plan to get rid of the sales tax, but after Cain introduced the 9-9-9 plan as a patch for his support for the truly awful "fair tax" VAT.

The other contenders don't need to take Cain down on 9-9-9. It's falling apart on its own.

Simon Templar| 10.20.11 @ 3:39AM

Your impartial? So, I am suppose to take your word for it and your silly little armchair blogger understanding of economics over a internationally renowned economist?

Go away.

POST American| 10.19.11 @ 10:33PM

-----------------BOTTOMLESS LINE-------------------

More BOGUS than the O.T.O. Mason scripted
and provocateured USURY n' EUGENICS
'French' Revolution ----or the Wall Street/ City
of London coup d'etat 'Russian' 'Revolution' of
October 1917 -----is the 'flash' Wall Street
mayhem ---spreading 'on cue', just like the
Oxford-Fabian-Globalist 'Color Revolutions'
of last spring. Dictatorship, bankster
scripted dictator-ship, has been the outcome.

----------------DO NOT BE DECEIVED----------------

"There's NO doubt that the criminal elite
is making its move ---worldwide. They
pre-maturely launched their Rockefeller-Rothchild
Marxist takeover and redistribution op.
Like the takedown of Europe going after
the last shreds of sovereignty. A literal
economic dicatatorship.
They realize they're being exposed.
They are ---DESPERTATE----PANICKED."
-ALEX JONES
(essential online coverage yesterday)

And, finally, for the reality challenged:

---------------------------CAIN----------------------------
---------------------------is the ----------------------------
------------------------ROT-child-------------------------

----------------------------FED----------------------------

nohussein| 10.19.11 @ 10:05PM

just another black preacher, nothing more.

Simon Templar| 10.20.11 @ 3:41AM

just another faceless, little coward sitting in his basement sticking his middle finger up at the world.

Troll.

Margie| 10.20.11 @ 10:14PM

Thomas Sowell: More Black than Barak Obama:

http://www.realclearpolitics.c.....obama.html

Sean| 10.20.11 @ 3:48AM

Margie's candidate Cain says government should not be involved in the choice of abortion.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/her.....ro-choice/

Margie| 10.20.11 @ 4:26PM

He isn't just MY candidate, Paul-bot.
Like Margaret, above, you can't see past your little Paul-bot noses, and the ends justifies your means of outright destruction of conservatives by slander, lies and deceit.

It isn't exactly what he said.
Dunce.

Margie| 10.20.11 @ 10:09PM

"A little leaven leavens the whole lump." Gal 5:9.

“Yesterday in an interview with Piers Morgan on CNN, I was asked questions about abortion policy and the role of the President.

I understood the thrust of the question to ask whether that I, as president, would simply “order” people to not seek an abortion.
My answer was focused on the role of the President. The President has no constitutional authority to order any such action by anyone. That was the point I was trying to convey.

As to my political policy view on abortion, I am 100% pro-life. End of story.

I will appoint judges who understand the original intent of the Constitution. Judges who are committed to the rule of law know that the Constitution contains no right to take the life of unborn children.

I will oppose government funding of abortion. I will veto any legislation that contains funds for Planned Parenthood. I will do everything that a President can do, consistent with his constitutional role, to advance the culture of life.”

He understands that the President isn't a King or a Monarch, an Emporer or any other absolute authority.

In the Paul-bot's zeal to lynch Herman Cain, they are now advocating government interference into Parental rights!
Hilatious.

POST American| 10.20.11 @ 4:06AM

---------------BEYOND BOTTOMLESS----------------

---------------------------CAIN----------------------------
---------------------------is the-----------------------------
-----------------ROT-child/Rockefeller----------------
-------------------Globalist RED China------------------
---------------TREASON and EUGENICS op---------
-----------------------------FED----------------------------

Steer clear of DIS--tractions.

Accept NO scapegoats.

GO to the SOURCE of the POISON.

-----HUAC meets NUREMBERG
for the funders and directors of
a full century of HIGH TREASON,
EUGENICS and GENOCIDE----

--------------------------2012------------------------------

tadcf| 10.20.11 @ 10:37AM

What's this? McCain is now supplying a written dialogue of the Republican debates? Is this a sign that most Repubs don't watch the debates themselves? And need to get a rerun by him?

Oldefarte| 10.20.11 @ 2:56PM

Most here are again getting hung up on Cain's '9' revenue plan, which [if credible] should be back-shelved for another day's consideration. The critical problem this country faces is GOVERNMENTAL SPENDING, not REVENUE/TAXES. Paul is admittedly quirky, but his recently released plan to reduce governmental spending essentially hits the nail squarely on the head as to what's needed. Governmental spending needs to be seriously reduced, and Paul's ideas about eliminating governmental departments/agencies does that. The only possibly drawback is his one-year timeframe for same, and instead more realistically should be phased in over a four-year term of the next Republican administration. Same will transfer governmental borrowing/loans to available capital for private businesses to borrow, increase hiring of employees, expand their plant/equipment purchases etc which in turn will increase consumer purchases [from increased employee wages etc]. Forget about tax policy now and concentrate instead on governmental expense reductions to reduce their defecit/debt!!!!

Margie| 10.20.11 @ 4:29PM

How can I be for a man who blames America for terrorism?
Are you getting soft on me, Oldefarte?
His "drawbacks" are far too serious to outweigh his plan for fiscal sanity.

Earle Belle| 10.20.11 @ 5:09PM

Paul v Romney – Donations Show Stark Difference
Paul raised most from active military, Romney tapped big banks

LAKE JACKSON, Texas – A recent independent analysis of candidates’ campaign contributions reveals an interesting disparity between the Ron Paul 2012 Presidential Campaign and frontrunner Mitt Romney’s campaign. Romney’s top supporters appear to be made up of big banks while, unsurprisingly, Paul’s top contributors were men and women serving in the U.S. Armed Forces.

“This fundraising analysis confirms Americans’ beliefs about Ron Paul and their suspicions about Mitt Romney. It is that Dr. Paul is extraordinarily popular and accepted by the everyman and by everyday heroes, while Romney relies almost exclusively on his big-business ties,” said Ron Paul 2012 National Campaign Chairman Jesse Benton.

According to the analysis, the top three organizations that employ Romney’s supporters are Goldman Sachs, Credit Suisse Group, and Morgan Stanley. Reflecting his popularity with the everyman and our uniformed service men and women, the top three organizations that employ Dr. Paul’s supporters are the U.S. Air Force, the U.S. Army, and the U.S. Navy.

The study notes that the organizations themselves did not contribute. Rather, “the money came from the organization’s PAC, its individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals’ immediate families.” The analysis suggests, then, that the use of PACs, bundling, subsidiaries and the like was not a feature of Dr. Paul’s grassroots fundraising.
Ron Paul Campaign Tops Others in Q3 Active-Military Donations
Outraises all other Republican candidates combined, outraises Obama

LAKE JACKSON, Texas – The Ron Paul 2012 Presidential Campaign raised more campaign donations from active military than all other presidential candidates—Republican or Democrat—including having raised more funds from this segment than all other GOP competitors combined, and more than incumbent President Barack Obama.

Dr. Paul, an Air Force veteran, raised more than $75,000 from active military in the third quarter. This comes after Dr. Paul out-raised all GOP candidates – including all GOPers combined, and President Obama singularly – in the second quarter of this year. Dr. Paul also outraised his GOP competitors in a head-to-head comparison during his 2008 run for the presidency.

This determination was arrived at using an independent campaign analysis of FEC filing data focusing on contributors who listed their occupation and employer when contributing.

“Ron Paul is the only candidate with a plan to end the growing number of unconstitutional undeclared wars, having an unclear connection to U.S. national security, end costly overseas nation-building that pays no friendship dividends, and stop subsidizing global security. Instead Dr. Paul will bring our troops home, secure our borders and lead the nation in practicing a traditional Republican noninterventionist foreign policy,” said Ron Paul 2012 Campaign Chairman Jesse Benton.

“Let me also submit that Dr. Paul out-raising all candidates in military donations demonstrates that his ‘Plan to Restore America’ might sit well among voters who are active-military or veterans,” continued Mr. Benton.

To view the Ron Paul 2012 Presidential Campaign’s latest veterans-themed ad, click here. To view its latest foreign policy-themed ad, click here.
Ron Paul’s Free Market Fix for Healthcare

Ron Paul on how we can substantively fix our healthcare problems:

Obama is just adding on more government…

Our problem is that we have too much government management of our healthcare…

If you want better competition and healthcare you should allow the American people to opt out of government healthcare…

When a government gets involved in an industry prices go up…

We need more competition in healthcare…

Let people have control over their own money…
Standing Above the Fray

Once again, it’s worth pointing out that all of these candidates are viciously attacking one other over each of their lackluster, big government records.

They all have them. Except one.

And that candidate continues to stand above the fray because there is nothing to attack.

http://www.revolutionpac.com/2.....er-snipes/

proudandpurple| 10.20.11 @ 10:25PM

Herman Cain IS John Gault! :)
I relish a debate between Herman Cain and President Obama. The ultra left would have fits of frustration. Can you say conservative tsunami in 2012! I love the back and forth of most of the commentators here. Most thoughtful with some notable exceptions :) .

POST American| 10.20.11 @ 11:56PM

-----------------------ALERT---------------------------

Observing the exchanges above are SO
laid on we're begining to doubt people
are writing them.

Will the wonders of CY-ber CON-troll
never end?

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