The American Spectator : The Left's Mormon Problem

Harry Hunter| 10.14.11 @ 6:37AM

Has anyone really examinef what Obama's church believes in, apart from anti-white bigotry?

Anthony| 10.14.11 @ 9:37AM

Yes, Harry, just read the Quran.

fitley| 10.14.11 @ 5:12PM

No Republicans have examined Obama's church. Gee I wonder why. Maybe they couldn't get their burning cross through the door.

CalMark| 10.14.11 @ 7:18PM

Fitley, you misspelled your own name, buddy!

You missed the "l" before the "t!"

Alan Brooks| 10.15.11 @ 12:42AM

"fitley| 10.14.11 @ 5:12PM
No Republicans have examined Obama's church. Gee I wonder why. Maybe they couldn't get their burning cross through the door."

You're not supposed to be sincere at a Rightist blog;
why, it's a sin.
Haven't you heard?: the GOP is now a Reagan-nostalgia club and nothing more. Fitley, you gotta get with the program!

mames| 10.15.11 @ 11:53PM

The KKK was founded and supported by southern dems.

Buck Ofama| 10.16.11 @ 3:51AM

In that Southern state, INDIANA.

IX-XI| 10.16.11 @ 11:43AM

Ah yes, the KKK, the terrorist arm of the Democratic Party.

No matter how many times you try to push that off on us, you'll never get the racist stink off yourself, Democrap.

The KKK's job was to intimidate blacks to keep them from voting for Republicans.

You can look it up.

Jack in Wi.| 10.14.11 @ 8:16PM

You should not judge Romney as a Mormon but on his record. He is for Romneycare, endless war, with his 5 sons exempt, TARP, the Fed, Flip Flopps, bailouts forever, and he is soft on abortion and homsexuality. He was a failed one term governor of a liberal state. Who the hell wants or needs him? It is Ron Paul or ruin.

Mike Hawk| 10.15.11 @ 4:15PM

So what is Rube Paul affiliation?? Do you Paulbots know??

Clint| 10.16.11 @ 9:33AM

Yeah, Israel Firster,we do.

Dr.Ron Paul was raised Lutheran and is a Baptists.

Got a Problem with Lutherans & Baptists, Asshole ?

mames| 10.16.11 @ 12:02AM

Jack - why hate a man for his religion when if you really get to know him there is so much more reason to hate him, right? :). Romney is a bigger RINO than McCain, and he puts his faith in the sick warped con man Joesph Smith. Have you READ the doctrine of the Mormons? It is not too far removed from Scientology (which contains NO science). It certainly is not related to Christianity in any way shape or form as any reputable secular comparative religion prof can tell you. The Romney family is a bunch of phonies, politically, spiritually and socially. Coming from Michigan we know the faux Romney troupe.

True_Patriot| 10.17.11 @ 3:43PM

two words to you, Mames.

Lame.
Ignorant.

Pahoran| 10.17.11 @ 3:52PM

If you would like to read the doctrine of the Mormons, go to www.mormon.org. Once you're adequately informed, you can decide for yourself whether a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints should be disqualified from elective office solely based on his or her religious beliefs.

Alan Brooks| 10.15.11 @ 12:38AM

http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET.....er20111014

True_Patriot| 10.17.11 @ 4:00PM

witty, thoughtful, yet missing the point

C Smith| 10.15.11 @ 1:44PM

SUNDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2008
“Messiah” Obama (Amos 3:2)

“Can two walk together, except they be agreed”?

On February 24, Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, before a black audience, formally “anointed” the “Messiah”:

"You are the instruments that God is going to use to bring about universal change, and that is why Barack has captured the youth. And he has involved young people in a political process that they didn't care anything about. That's a sign. When the Messiah speaks, the youth will hear, and the Messiah is absolutely speaking."

But who is Louis Farrakhan, the “messenger” heralding America’s “Messiah”? And what latent symbiosis exists between him and person who may become our next president? His words may reveal the answer:
White people are potential humans…. they haven’t evolved yet (Louis Farrakhan, The Philadelphia Inquirer, March 2000).
You [Jews] are wicked deceivers of the American people. You have sucked their blood (Louis Farrakhan, Savior's Day Speech, Chicago, February 25, 1996).

They call them terrorists [Hezbollah], I call them freedom fighters (Louis Farrakhan, District Council 33 Union Hall, Philadelphia, April 22, 1996).

Qadaffi's a revolutionary, he's my friend, he's my brother. And I would never deny him because you don't like him. You say, you say he's the one who set the bomb off that killed all those people on Pan Am 103 You're a liar (Louis Farrakhan, Savior's Day, Chicago, February 25, 1996).
It is an act of mercy to white people that we end your world (Louis Farrakhan, as cited in Matt Labash, Inside the March, The Weekly Standard, 10/23/1995, Volume 001, Issue 06).
God will destroy America by the hands of the Muslims. — God will not give Japan or Europe the honor of bringing down the United States; this is an honor God will bestow upon Muslims (Louis Farrakhan, as cited in The Anti-Defamation League, Press Release: Nation of Islam, New York, NY, March 5, 1996).
The Jews don't like Farrakhan, so they call me Hitler. Well, that's a good name. Hitler was a very great man (Louis Farrakhan, as cited in CNN Senior Washington Correspondent Charles Bierbauer, Million Man March, October 17, 1995).
Look at it so-called Jew. Look at it, imposter Jew. Somebody must call you what you are. Somebody must look you in your cold lying blue eyes and pull the cover off of you today. I don't give a damn about you and I will give you hell from the cradle to the grave (Louis Farrakhan, Black Holocaust Nationhood Conference (on the eve of the Million Man March), October 15, 1995). Addendum: Obama not only attended the “Million Man March” but reportedly joined Farrakhan, Al Sharpton, and Reverend Jeremiah Wright in organizing the event.

Terrorism, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder (Louis Farrakhan, as cited in Mattias Gardell, In the Name of Elijah Muhammad, Duke University Press, December 1996).

In 1964, more moderate fellow Nation of Islam member Malcolm X revealed that their leader Elijah Muhammad had impregnated several of his teenage secretaries. An outraged Farrakhan responded: "Only those who wish to be led to hell, or to their doom, will follow Malcolm. The die is set, and Malcolm shall not escape, especially after such evil, foolish talk about his benefactor; such a man is worthy of death…." Malcolm's pregnant wife and four daughters witnessed the fulfillment of Farrakhan’s prophecy ten weeks later in Harlem's Audubon Ballroom.

In December 2007, Obama’s church and pastor publicly honored Minister Louis Farrakhan with the Trumpeter award, accompanied with a hagiographic eulogy in the church’s Trumpet periodical. Rev. Jeremiah Wright further alluded to Farrakhan as a man who “truly epitomized greatness.”

More recently, Obama found it politically expedient to disassociate himself from affiliations with Farrakhan, Wright, and other black leaders, but not the obeisance they bestowed regarding his “Messiahship.” However, considering the affinity of these men in recent decades, the question remains:

“Can two walk together, except they be agreed” (Amos 3:2)?

Herb| 10.14.11 @ 7:11AM

Their beliefs apart, Mormons tend to be socially conservative which is enough to set liberals' teeth on edge.

Jack von Bauer| 10.14.11 @ 7:49AM

Don't forget "articulate, bright and clean"

Apart from Harry Reid,

LarryK| 10.14.11 @ 10:40AM

Jack, you're mistaken. Harry Reid is a Moron.

Jack von Bauer| 10.14.11 @ 1:31PM

Larry -- you'll no argument from me on that one!

Isn't America great. A moron can rise to majority leader in the Senate. And a Gramcian neo-commie can become President.

Alan Brooks| 10.15.11 @ 12:48AM

"endless war, with his 5 sons exempt"

Natch, there is no conscription, Jack- since '73.
Let's hope it stays that way or you'll be drafted and sent to the plains of Megiddo, in Israel, with nothing to eat but gefilte fish and halvah.
You wouldn't want that, now would you?

Drudge Ette Obama| 10.14.11 @ 7:20AM

Mormons have done a poor job representing themselves to the general public. There are some strange traditions - like bringing dead relatives into the church. But compare those unfamiliar traditions to speaking in tongues, Noah's Ark, the Holy Trinity, communion, baptism, eating no pork/shellfish... and perhaps we are all part of some strange religious adventure.

Most Mormons I have met strive to do the right thing and are guided to do so by their religion. I can't fault them for a few nutty (in my mind, maybe) aspects of that particular religion. They are law-abiding and community service oriented.

I can't say the same about Rev. Wright's view of religion or the people, like Obama, Michelle and Oprah who have parked their rumps in Wright's hate-filled pews.

Jack von Bauer| 10.14.11 @ 7:46AM

"Mormons are creepy and weird" ...

Harry Reid IS creepy and weird. But it has NOTHING to do with his Mormonism.

C Smith| 10.15.11 @ 1:50PM

Tar and Feathers

“Rigdon… made a new translation of the Bible, in which prophecies of the coming of Joseph Smith and the nature of The Book of Mormon are inserted in the 50th chapter of Genesis and the 20th chapter of Isaiah respectively…. the church was “persecuted”… on the 25th of March 1832 Smith and Rigdon were tarred and feathered at Hiram….In 1836 the Kirtland Safety Society Bank was organized (in accordance with a “revelation” to Smith)…. In March 1837 Rigdon and Smith, the secretary and treasurer, were charged with violating the state law against unchartered banks, and they were convicted in October…. In November the “bank” suspended payments and… Smith and Rigdon left the state for Missouri…. [After a] determined attempt to depose Smith… there was organized… a band… bound to secrecy under penalty of death, and formed to punish all who opposed the Church and its supreme head. Numerous crimes and outrages were attributed to them…. On the 4th of July 1838 Rigdon preached his “salt sermon” … urging his hearers to wage “a war of extermination” on those who disturbed them…. and necessitated the calling out of the state militia…. Smith and Rigdon with others were arrested and imprisoned on a charge of treason, murder, and felony… In 1842 Smith was charged with instigating and attempt… to assassinate ex-Governor L. W. Boggs of Missouri…. There seems to have been no secret about Smith’s cohabiting with other women…. he had a revelation expressly establishing and approving polygamy.” (The Encyclopedia Britannica, Thirteenth Edition, London, vol. 18, pp. 843-844, 1926)

IX-XI| 10.16.11 @ 11:51AM

1926? Why not refer to Britannica's corrected current edition? Like most reference works, Britannica tries to correct errors in previous editions and replace them with provable facts.

That's why the anti-Mormon bilge in the 1926 edition isn't there anymore. The Mormons didn't go and buy the Encyclopedia Britannica and expunge the embarassing bits. Britannica expunged the false bits that proved embarassing to Britannica.

Go ahead and push discredited crap. I hear the Arabs are still selling the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and it's flying off the shelves.

Why not do the same thing to the Mormons?

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 1:40PM

You cannot be a Christian and not reject the cult of Mormon.

"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed." Gal. 1:8 & 9.

Why are YOU defending it?
Are you a Christian?

Robyn | 10.17.11 @ 8:03AM

Margie, many Christians defend Mormons. Why are the evangelicals and the progressives so anti-Mormon? Christ said, "By their fruits ye shall know them." The Mormons I know are decent, productive people who tend to be good neighbors.

Ryan| 10.17.11 @ 8:40AM

Mostly because of highly questionable doctrine. Mormonism is, at its core, a works-based religion, and seeks to add to scripture with both anti-historical and extrabiblical authority.

Dan| 10.17.11 @ 8:02PM

Robyn,
Margie is not a Christian. She doesn't believe in the divinity of Jesus.

Margie| 10.18.11 @ 1:20PM

Jesus Christ is LORD.
Apparently, you don't understand that because you're too busy defending the Pope, who is an utter FRAUD.
JESUS IS LORD.
You better get used to it now, because if you don't repent of your idolatry and blatant bearing of false witness against Bible believing Christians, you're on your way to Hell.

"A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who utters lies will not escape." Prov. 19:5.

Read it and weep, Troll.

Dan| 10.18.11 @ 6:17PM

Margie does not believe that Jesus is God,and doesn't believe in the divinity of Jesus. You can cut and paste all day long and you can't and won't deny what I just said.

Tawn| 10.19.11 @ 11:53AM

There is no way someone who is a christian would spout the filth you are leaving here. Mormons believe in Jesus Christ, hence the name Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints. We do not condemn others to hell such as you are doing.

Patrick Tate| 10.18.11 @ 10:46AM

Please learn the doctrine before criticizing it. You will find that nothing has been added or subtracted from the gospel that Christ taught

Sammy| 10.18.11 @ 12:48AM

Yes, look at the scholarship practiced by the Encyl. Britannica:

http://www.infidels.org/librar.....nnica.html

Now of course this comes from Wikipedia, so is not itself fully vetted. But it sure gives pause, especially when one reads the drivel it published about Smith.

Brian Mc| 10.14.11 @ 8:15AM

I will not follow an individual who follows a false prophet, whether Smith or Muhammed, or any other claiming they've come down from the mountain and stating, "Look what God wrote to me because I'm special".

Jack von Bauer| 10.14.11 @ 8:38AM

I think the question is whether you would vote for the person as a candidate for office, not convert.

Bruce| 10.14.11 @ 1:44PM

So, Brian, you don't believe a lot of the Bible? It is full of prophets who told people what to do and how to behave. Some even claimed to have seen and spoken to God. How do you know which ones are "false" and which ones are "true"?

Teflon93| 10.14.11 @ 3:44PM

Umm, maybe because the Church founded by Jesus Christ some 1,800 years before Joseph Smith---you know, the one that produced the Bible, the one against which the Gates of Hell will not stand---clearly distinguishes between the two?

If you're going to invoke the Church as an authority---which you do whenever you reference the Bible---you need to explain why you don't belong to it.

Al Adab| 10.14.11 @ 4:11PM

Bruce:
I mean really, do you believe that Joseph Smith actually found some golden plates that only he could see and only he could translate? What about the Egyptian document in the Univ. of Chicago library that he made into the Pearl? It doesn't say anything like Smith said.

Are you perhaps a Danite?

skeech| 10.15.11 @ 4:20PM

Al Adab,
Actually several people saw and handled the Plates not just Joseph Smith. If you open a Book of Mormon you will see the statement they wrote verifying that with all their names some of which left the Church later yet always stood by their testimony that they were eye witnesses.

Your comment on the Pearl of Great Price which is a book. The papyri we have today are most likely incomplete and not everything that Joseph had or translated. At least some non-LDS Egyptologists have backed up Josephs interpretation of the images that are on the papyri as possible translations. However Egyptologists are still arguing about what they mean. Just search Youtube on the book of Abraham and sort for the most current video's and work your way back for the most current information. As time goes on it becomes more and more affirms that Joseph was correct rather than the other way around. Sorry for any bad grammer I just have no time to return and review

Al Adab| 10.16.11 @ 3:30PM

skeech dear brother:
There are none so blind as they who will not see. Study and show yourself approved. Read your Alexander Campbell and your Rigdon. There is much food for thought in them.

Just double check on the Univ. of Chicago manuscript and compare it with what Smith put in the Pearl from it.

Ryan| 10.17.11 @ 8:49AM

Try some factual data rather than people talking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Abraham

"Upon examination by professional non-Mormon Egyptologists, the papyri were found to bear no resemblance to Joseph Smith's interpretation, and were common Egyptian funerary texts, dating to about the first century BC."

The issues behind the "Book of Abraham" fail one critical smell test - the simplest explanation is most often the best.

Jill James| 10.18.11 @ 12:55AM

Did you guys even READ skeech's comment. The papyri examined by Egyptologists were never claimed by the LDS to be the ones from which Smith translated the Book of Abraham.

None so blind as they who will not even look, much less see :)

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 12:17AM

The Catholic church did NOT produce the Bible.
You've been had.

Clint| 10.16.11 @ 10:10AM

It was the Catholic Church that produced the Bible. It was not the Bible that produced the Church.
Seven to ten years before anything was written down, the Catholic Church was already administering the Sacraments, baptizing, forgiving sins, praying over the sick, etc...

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 1:37PM

No, the Catholic church didn't "produce" the Bible. Christians put it together. God produced the Bible.

And the false teachers who brought into Christianity all sorts of unbiblical teachings created the "Catholic" Religion.

They did NOT teach the Gospel of God, but things like prayer to the dead, Transubstantiation, Mary as "Mother of God", the forbidding of Marriage, Popes, et al.

These things are AGAINST the Word of God, and are NOT found in Scripture.

In fact, the Papists tortured and killed millions of Christians for the very reason that they REFUSED to go along with these unbiblical teachings.

So, you better believe I am anti-Catholic. It doesn't make me a bigot pig, as you disgustingly say, it makes me a Christian, who reveres His Words.

Dan| 10.16.11 @ 10:29PM

Is this the reason why you, Margie, don't believe in the divinity of Jesus, that Jesus is God, because this would upset your interpretation that Mary is not the mother of God? If Mary is the mother of Jesus, and Jesus is God, then it follows that Mary is the mother of God.
Of course the Catholics put together the Bible, you moron, there were no Protestants until Martin Luther. The term Christian was the same as Catholic until Luther and the Protestant Reformation,.

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 7:12PM

Say, Lying Troll, are you the same Paul-bot scum that posted the following comment in Jeffrey Lord's thread the other day:

Dan| 10.12.11 @ 2:33PM

Jeffrey your article proves zilch about Dr Paul. He is still correct on their nuclear capabilities. Go celebrate with your boyfriend and have him finger you some more wake up tomorrow and realize you are so very wrong.

Dan| 10.17.11 @ 8:01PM

No Mullah, different Dan.
Now stop avoiding the question, do you believe in the divinity of Jesus?
What's the problem, truth hurts?

Margie| 10.18.11 @ 1:22PM

I'm not a moron, Troll.
Apparently, you are a Papist, and that's why you hate me.
There's no such thing as Popes in God's Word.
You need to repent, Troll.
JESUS Christ is LORD, not the Pope.
There is no such thing, he's a fraud, like you, phony.
Mary isn't the Mother of God.
Haven't you read the Bible?

Dan| 10.18.11 @ 6:16PM

One doesn't have to be a Papist to dislike a bigot like you, Margie.

Samuel Adams| 10.18.11 @ 5:41PM

""He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all. Our forefathers threw off the yoke of Popery in religion; for you is reserved the honor of leveling the popery of politics. They opened the Bible to all, and maintained the capacity of every man to judge for himself in religion."
- Samuel Adams, Speech at the State House, Philadelphia, August 1, 1776

Dan| 10.18.11 @ 6:15PM

Samuel Adams makes good beer and a lousy religious opinions.

C Smith| 10.15.11 @ 2:15PM

Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 12:16AM

Oooh, good one!

Patrick Tate| 10.18.11 @ 10:47AM

do you believe in Moses and the 10 commandments?

jjudd| 10.18.11 @ 4:04PM

You mean like Moses??

Claypoole| 10.14.11 @ 8:28AM

A recommendation: "Under The Banner of Heaven" by Jon Krakauer (who also wrote "Into Thin Air" and "Into the Wild"). The main focus of the nonfiction book is a radical offshoot sect of the Mormon church--and I am not suggesting that Romney has any connection with that sect--but the book also gives a history and explanation of beliefs of the church.

Rac80| 10.14.11 @ 11:54AM

I knew Brenda Lafferty at the time of her marriage and murder and ALL Krakauer's book did was dishonor her memory in an attempt to denigrate the LDS church- which would have upset the Brenda I knew and respected. That book is one very large piece of putrid writing! The important fact of that murder was that her brothers-in-law slaughtered her and her baby (Erica) as if they were animals. It was not connected to the LDS church. They were actually angry that her husband, Allen, would not join their polygamous group. Brenda was afraid of them and her husband had warned them to stay away from her. We worked together and the management of the business had a policy in place to keep an eye out for her brothers-in-law and observe them closely if they visited.
Most of Krakauer's assumptions were merely that...assumptions. He was not there at the time and didn't know the people involved. I did.

PCC| 10.14.11 @ 8:29AM

Yes, I know many people would never trust anyone who attends church regularly, tithes 10% of his or her income, and who doesn't curse, drink, smoke or imbibe caffeine. I'm just not one of them.

Timothy L. Pennell| 10.14.11 @ 8:57AM

The LEFT doesn't have a Mormon Problem. They have a Republican Mormon problem.
Harry Reid's a Mormon. I noticed that, in this article, everybody BUT Harry Reid, was mentioned as Mormons. Interesting.
Just like they love Blacks, as long as they're not the Republican House Negro types. They love the Jews (They hate the Jews) except for the Neocons. (who drink the blood of Regular Jew's children.
With all that being said, let's take the Bull by the Horns, shall we?
The MORMON thing, IS gonna be a problem, and this election is too GODDAMN IMPORTANT, to take a risk like that. They will take his Religion, and turn it in to Satanic Worship, before their done. They will go through the Book Of Mormon, with a fine tooth comb.
For example: The Founder of the Mormons, I believe, or it may have been Brigham Young, said that the Negro has a FLAT NOSE, because GOD Flattened it, to let the world know that he was INFERIOR. (Or, some such thing)
Anybody think that's a problem?
You've got Preachers ON OUR SIDE, going after the Mormon Faith. Calling it a CULT. What do you think the LEFT, and their Buddies in the MEDIA, are gonna do, with this?
Go back to the 2008, during the Republican Primaries. Google: MORMON SHOWS 2008. See what you find. They had Movies on Ted Turner's Stations. CNN was running their predictable "Investigative Series" on Mormonism. It was all over the Sunday Shows!
I don't care how Great, Mitt Romney is. This Election is for all the Marbles. If Hamas' Deliverer - ABU HUSSAIN - wins, this Country will disappear from the face of the Earth. And, it may never return. Nothing can be allowed to hinder our efforts against OBAMA.
They will turn his Religion in to a SCARLETT LETTER, and everybody knows it.
Or, at least, they should.

Bruce| 10.14.11 @ 1:48PM

Don't look now, THEY are all over the place. http://famousmormons.net/pol2.html

skeech| 10.15.11 @ 4:29PM

Mormon here, And I gotta agree. Besides Romney is a decent guy and all of that but he is not conservative enough and does not even know his own religion enough. Mormonism actually affirms that the Constitution was established by God to protect mens natural rights and privileges that he had given them. Many Mormons don't even know this anymore but we also believe we are held accountable by God for what we vote for our government to do. And if we vote for and support laws that are contrary to the Constitution and its founding principles "anything more or less than this cometh of evil" we will be held accountable by him. Clearly Romney does not understand this or he would not be trying to tinker with the constitution and show us what great ideas he has. We need honest good people who will fulfill their oath of office to uphold and protect the Constitution of the United States of America. It's really as simple as that.
Ron Paul 2012

wesley| 10.16.11 @ 6:16AM

Tinker with the Constitution???? How?? State or U.S. ???

hardcard| 10.14.11 @ 9:12AM

divide and conquer, can't you see the commie/progs attack plan. they say Cain is a traitor to his race, Perry is an Evangelical Christian, Romney is a cultist, Bachman is nuts etc etc remember the 11th commandment.

Teflon93| 10.14.11 @ 10:16AM

The Mormons continue to produce great people and solid Christians.

Romney's problem is that he's simply not a good enough Mormon.

What distinguishes him character-wise from every other ambition-uber-alles politician to come down the pike? He was the most despised candidate in the field in 2008 (which took some doing given McCain's predilection for sharp elbows) with good reason. He continues to sling mud in this campaign.

Were Romney a better Mormon, he'd be much more acceptable to conservatives. (Who cares if liberals support him?)

C Smith| 10.15.11 @ 2:19PM

“Rigdon… made a new translation of the Bible, in which prophecies of the coming of Joseph Smith and the nature of The Book of Mormon are inserted in the 50th chapter of Genesis and the 20th chapter of Isaiah respectively…. the church was “persecuted”… on the 25th of March 1832 Smith and Rigdon were tarred and feathered at Hiram….In 1836 the Kirtland Safety Society Bank was organized (in accordance with a “revelation” to Smith)…. In March 1837 Rigdon and Smith, the secretary and treasurer, were charged with violating the state law against unchartered banks, and they were convicted in October…. In November the “bank” suspended payments and… Smith and Rigdon left the state for Missouri…. [After a] determined attempt to depose Smith… there was organized… a band… bound to secrecy under penalty of death, and formed to punish all who opposed the Church and its supreme head. Numerous crimes and outrages were attributed to them…. On the 4th of July 1838 Rigdon preached his “salt sermon” … urging his hearers to wage “a war of extermination” on those who disturbed them…. and necessitated the calling out of the state militia…. Smith and Rigdon with others were arrested and imprisoned on a charge of treason, murder, and felony… In 1842 Smith was charged with instigating and attempt… to assassinate ex-Governor L. W. Boggs of Missouri…. There seems to have been no secret about Smith’s cohabiting with other women…. he had a revelation expressly establishing and approving polygamy.” (The Encyclopedia Britannica, Thirteenth Edition, London, vol. 18, pp. 843-844, 1926)

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 12:15AM

Only a Catholic could say that Mormonism is Christianity!
LOL.
And the only way we'd get behind Romney is if he were a better conservative, not a better Mormon.
Sheesh.
It isn't his Religion, it's his politics, his economics that we're (conservatives) opposed to.

Clint| 10.16.11 @ 9:42AM

Uh Oh !

American Spectator's Resident Industrial Strength Religious Bigot, Margie Is In The Building.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 1:30PM

""But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed.
As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed." Gal. 1:8 & 9.

Zerabp| 10.17.11 @ 12:31PM

What is the gospel? 1cor 15: 1-4

What is the Gospel as preached by Latter-Day Saints? 1cor 15:1-4

We preach that Christ lived a sinless live, died, was buried, and was resurrected that all men who would believe in him might be saved.

Doesn't sound like another Gospel. We have meny different docterines but the crux of our faith and the gospel we preach is the very same message paul preached and said was the Gospel. In other words those verses do not apply the the LDS faith.

However there are plenty of other faiths that those do apply to, starting with the Muslim Faith, which unlike mine had an angel appear who denied the divinity and role of Christ (which is the gospel in its whole any other doctrines you may disagree with do not disqualify us as Christians despite your wresting the scriptures) of which our faith did not nor has ever done.

Indeed Christ is and always has been the central figure in our faith.

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 7:24PM

What is the Gospel of God?
You claim that you know, yet you accept Mormon doctrine?
The Gospel of God says that Jesus Christ came to die for those who were to believe in Him, that God rose Him from the dead, and that He ever lives to make intercession for us.

JESUS lives to make intercession on behalf of His saints (those who are His children, alive now, contrary to Catholic doctrine).

"For there is one God, and there is one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, Who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time." 1 Tim. 2:5 & 6.

What is the Gospel of God?
The Scripture says it here:

"Now I would remind you, brethren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel, which you received, in which you stand, by which you are saved, if you hold it fast--unless you believed in vain.

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.
Then he appeared to James, then to all the Apostles.
Last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared also to me.
For I am the least of the apostles, unfit to be called an Apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
But by the G
race of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God which is with me.

Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed." 1 Cor. 15:1-11.

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world." 1 Jn. 4:1.

"Everyone transgressing and not abiding
in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.
The one abiding in the doctrine of Christ,
this one has the Father and the Son.
If anyone comes to you and does not
bear this doctrine, do not receive him into
the house, and do not speak a greeting to
him.
For the one speaking a greeting shares
in his evil works." 2 Jn. 1:9-11.

Patrick Tate| 10.18.11 @ 10:53AM

nothing of what you just typed is contrary to any Latter Day Saint belief. Please study the doctrine. It is all there.

Margie| 10.18.11 @ 1:24PM

Riiight.
Jesus is LORD.
Repent and believe the Gospel of God. Mk. 1:1.
Joseph Smith is a fraud.

Petronius| 10.14.11 @ 10:33AM

The Mormons and Southern Baptists are the only puritanical churches remaining. All the rest are finished and might as well be like the Unitarians who are united only in the sense that being good liberals , there are no absolutes, therefor they can't agree on anything they really believe in except serving fair trade coffee after church. And the Mormons and Baptists, (along with traditional Catholics) will be denigrated, insulted, and persecuted until they too cave in and approve of 60's Liberalism as the national religion.

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 1:09PM

Oh really?
Only Mormons & So. Baptists?
Sorry! Wrong number!
Christianity does not consist of Mormonism, it's a cult. And one denomination (So. Baptists) does not make up the rest of Christianity. They are a small part of it.
You may not SEE the rest of the Body of Christ with your eyes, but they are the ones quietly working in the field. They aren't on t.v. or in mega-churches.
You'll meet them in Heaven, if you so desire.

Petronius| 10.14.11 @ 1:35PM

Read it again. The qualifying definition is "puritanical" in the traditional protestant sense. These denominations are the only ones who still refuse to gainsay predators, perverts, and parasites. The rest have been subverted by the Liberals and their congregational conventions have caved in. The Jesuit university here has a gay rights group on campus; not just because the government mandates it but because the order condones it! Their basketball team has players who fathered illegitimate kids who get subsidized on the sly. The old coach who didn't put up with this behavior got fired. Since I don't follow college hoops, I don't have an actual count of how many felons are playing there this season. What does it take to make people understand that the costs of these behaviors are paid totally by the rest of us who do not practice them, in treasury, property, and blood! And I defy anyone who tells me I should be compelled to keep on paying! The Liberal churches no longer attempt to discourage sin and criminal behavior. Most aid and abet them in the name of "social justice". That is all.

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 2:08PM

"Read it again. The qualifying definition is "puritanical" in the traditional protestant sense."

I did read it. And my comment still stands.

Mormonism isn't Christianity, therefore it isn't "puritanical", it's perversion.

So, it has no need of being "perverted" by the Left. It already is.

People buy into all sorts of phony Religions because everybody has to believe in something. But Jesus didn't suffer and die for the sins of the world so that we could believe in just anything.

He didn't say to "Repent and believe the Gospel of God" lightly. Mk. 1:1.

Mormonism doesn't teach Christ's gospel, so there can be no Pure there.

And as to "these denominations are the only ones.."
Mormonism isn't even a denomination of Christianity!

And like I said, you may not see them with your eyes, but there are millions and millions of Bible believing (genuine) Christians the world over who do NOT allow themselves to be manipulated by the Left.. but you won't find them in the mega churches or on t.v. They're too busy out making Jesus known to the World!

Petronius| 10.14.11 @ 3:41PM

I'm not debating belief, renegade polygamists among their numbers aside. The issue is behavioral strictures a church enforces among it's own members. And these two do not tolerate felons, fudge packers, and slackers. A person can profess to be a pagan or a cannibal. That's no problem. Their behavior is, when it is detrimental to the quality of my life.

Marc| 10.14.11 @ 6:11PM

Read it one more time Margie.

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 7:09PM

Sorry, but my comment still stands.

Bum| 10.15.11 @ 12:22PM

Margie, you are awfully eager to attack Mormonism, but what do you actually know about it? The name of the church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. What about the fact that members are encouraged to have pictures of Christ in their homes? How about the fact that if you visit Temple Square in Salt Lake City you will see a giant status of the Christus in the routunda of the visitors center? How about that any bookstore selling LDS literature also sells the King James version of the Bible, and it is studied in Sunday School and regularly quoted from on Sundays from the pulpit?

It's true Mormons, or more correctly members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, have different beliefs in some ways, but all you have to do is look to the name to see Mormons believe in Christ as the Son of God. That makes them Christians.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 12:07AM

It's because Mormons are taught the false teachings of a man, and not the gospel of Christ.

If one believes in another gospel, and not Jesus', then it isn't Christianity.

His teachings are unbiblical. Jesus says that it is only by believing in the Gospel of God that we can be saved:

"Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the Kingdom of God is at hand; repent, and believe in the Gospel." Mk. 1:14 & 15.

Jesus came and commanded ALL to do what? Repent, and believe His Father's Gospel.
Not the gospel of Joseph Smith. Or anyone else, for that matter.

Zerabp| 10.17.11 @ 12:35PM

There is no Gospel of Joseph Smith.

In Fact I challenge you to state what this other Gospel is First though I must say you haven't really studied your Bible as you seem ignorant of what the Gospel is...

True_Patriot| 10.17.11 @ 4:23PM

I think that bashing other Christians is narrow and defines the basher more than the person he is bashing. And fundementally, I believe it pertains to the basher's inability to answer WHY the Church was restored...HOW there is one baptism, WHY Christ would direct His church and HOW He would restore it prior to His Second Coming. It is a defense mechanism to bash those who belong to His Church because they do not know how to answer to these life critical questions. And, what about priestcraft - a profession based on "preaching?" How does a basher answer that? Something worth considering, really. (I'm sorry to put this to you this way. You apparently haven't taken to heart what a SINCER TRUTH SEEKER would do.)

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 7:27PM

Speaking the truth to the deceived isn't bashing, kiddo. And if you really were a Christian, you'd want to tell Mormon's the truth, wouldn't you?
Oh, maybe not. Maybe you don't really care about them being led astray by a false prophet?

Mormonism isn't Christianity, and it sounds to me like you yourself needs to come to a knowledge of the Truth.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 12:11AM

p.s. So many people are well meaning, and God created us all in His Image. We all want to believe in something.. but it's only through following Jesus His Way, as He has provided for us in the Bible, that we can be saved.

Othewrise He wouldn't have said to repent, "and believe in the Gospel of God."

Bob| 10.15.11 @ 5:25PM

Margie, you said:

"Mormonism doesn't teach Christ's gospel, so there can be no Pure there."

What is Christ's gospel, as stated in the Bible?

Here is what LDS say about Jesus Christ and his gospel:

http://mormon.org/jesus-christ/

"But what do we mean when we say He is the Savior of the world? The Redeemer? Each of these titles point to the truth that Jesus Christ is the only way by which we can return to live with our Heavenly Father. Jesus suffered and was crucified for the sins of the world, giving each of God’s children the gift of repentance and forgiveness. Only by His mercy and grace can anyone be saved. His subsequent resurrection prepared the way for every person to overcome physical death as well. These events are called the Atonement. In short, Jesus Christ saves us from sin and death. For that, he is very literally our Savior and Redeemer. In the future Jesus Christ will return to reign on earth in peace for a thousand years. Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and He will be our Lord forever."

So do you disagree with this?

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 12:00AM

Hi Bob,

No, I don't disagree with that, but when you say this:

"Jesus suffered and was crucified for the sins of the world, giving each of God’s children the gift of repentance and forgiveness."

Do you agree with His Words when He says this:

"But to all who received Him, who believed in His Name, He gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." Jn. 1:12 & 13.

Being born of God means being regenerated from above, of His Holy Spirit:

"Jesus answered and said to him, Truly,
truly, I say to you, If one is not generated
from above, he is not able to see the kingdom
of God." Jn. 3:3.

It's what ELSE Mormonism teaches.. that isn't Scriptural, that teaches a different gospel, that's the problem.
Polygamy? And therefore Adultery?
Joseph Smith?
And what does he teach?

When one is regenerated from above, of God's Spirit, Jesus keeps you from being tricked by men who follow their own created Jesus.

Please, look into the Bible, and not the book of Mormon to find Jesus and His will.
Pray to Him, and He will show you His Truth.

Zerabp| 10.17.11 @ 12:39PM

Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses

Those are all Prophets of God who practiced polygamy, all by Gods command or condoning of it. How are they not adulterers yet Joseph is for practicing the same thing?

As for the bible I obviously have a better knowledge of it than you as you are condemning more than half of the lords prophets as adulterers.

Ryan| 10.17.11 @ 8:58AM

Except it's not Christ at all. The belief that Jesus was Satan's "brother," that He is not Incarnate, that God is not the ultimate Creator of everything...these ideas have no basis in scripture, and are so far removed from Christianity that they are heresy.

It's also a works-based faith, where one must earn God's favor rather than finding Christ by grace, through faith.

Zerabp| 10.17.11 @ 12:52PM

You are using a semantic argument rather than a scriptural one. We believe all God creations are his Children. We reject the Catholic Trinity (unlike you and your friend who condemn them yet return to their dogma like dogs to vomit) and believe that Christ was the literal Son of God Satan was created by God, Christ is God Son Thus in that regard we consider Satan a brother to Christ and us just as Christ is a brother to us. Again saying they are brothers is purely semantics and is not remotely a doctrinal issue or a disqualifier, as we preach 1Cor 15:1-4 which is the Gospel of Christ in it's entirety. No other doctrines can disqualify us from being Christians just like your heretical belief in the trinity doesn't disqualify you. Also your third statement is the only one without scriptural backing which is fine considering we DON'T BELIEVE THAT! WE fully believe that God is the Ultimate Creator and Father of all, unlike you who deny the scriptures in both the Old and new testament that it won't be God incarnate but His Son given as a Messiah.

As for being works based no we are not, we do not believe we can earn our we to heaven but we do believe that our works are a testimony to our Faith in Christ and therefore can keep us out of Heaven, just as James, brother of Jesus and apostle says in his epistle.

Ryan| 10.17.11 @ 1:56PM

I was using "brothers" in that sense as well - hence the use of quotations.

In any case, if I'm a "heretic" for believing in the Trinity, then EVERY Christian practically since Christ is one as well. Christ asserts His divinity several times in scripture, it is asserted elsewhere by others, and in other places Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit are referenced with the same authority. I suggest a non-Mormon study on the Trinity. You may find it enlightening.

I also suggest you look up the word "ultimate." In scripture, there is NO higher Being than God. He Created ALL of existence EVERYWHERE. Mormons, at their core, do not believe this.

The Gospel of Christ in its entirety is the Word. It's the ENTIRE Bible, not a few select verses. The WHOLE of scripture is the Good News.

If you believe that you must do something FIRST to enter heaven, rather than God working first, then you have stumbled into a works-based faith.

Janeway| 10.28.11 @ 8:29AM

As a Mormon, I have had this conversation many times. 1) We believe that Christ in his premortal state was Jehovah who spoke to Abraham and Moses. 2) He came to earth to teach, be our Savior through the Atonement, cruxifiction, and resurrection. 3) Jesus/Jehovah (God) was the creator under the direction of the Father (God) by the Power of the Holy Ghost (God). The only part we disagree on is that you deny the existance of the Father as a separate entity from the Son. You believe, I think, they are one in Substance where we believe the Godhead is one in purpose. In no way can you say that we do not believe Jesus/Jehovah was not divine. I certainly hope that a perfect understanding of the Godhead isn't necessary for salvation.

wesley| 10.16.11 @ 6:21AM

Mormonism is chistianity, just not the niesene flavor christianity

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 1:29PM

No, it isn't.
It is a different Gospel, not that of Jesus Christ.
Genuine Christians know that, and will speak the truth concerning it.

"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed.
As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed." Gal. 1:8 & 9.

Joseph Smith is a liar, and you need to get your head into the Bible, and take your stand with His Truth.
Otherwise, you'll end up being deceived.
Remember what the True God of the Bible says about HOW we keep ourselves on the straight and narrow:

"I have laid up Thy Word in my heart, that I might not sin against thee." Ps. 119:11.

If you don't do that, you'll end up like the "Don's" and the "Clint's" and the Richard Bakers and the "Margaret's" here~ those who despise His Words, and therefore despise those who say them.

Patrick Tate| 10.18.11 @ 1:13PM

Margie guess where these quotes come from.
There is no other name given nor any other way nor means whereby salvation can come unto the children of men, only in and through the name of Christ.
But there is a resurrection, therefore the grave hath no victory, and the sting of death is swallowed up in Christ. He is the light and life of the world; yea, a light that is endless, that can never be darkened.
This is the gospel which I have given unto you-that I came into the world to do the will of my father. And my father sent me that I might be lifted upon the cross... that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.
Know ye that ye must repent of all your sins and iniquities and believe in Jesus Christ, that he is the Son of God. Yea come unto Christ and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness and love God, with all your might, mind, and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ.

Margie| 10.18.11 @ 1:32PM

Patrick,

So, where then does Joseph Smith's false teachings come in?
Do you believe that Satan is Christ's brother?
Do you believe in polygamy? (Adultery).
These things are not biblical, and Jesus says if you are Christian, you MUST agree with HIS WORDS, and reject all others that do not agree with them.

"He who has My Commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him." Jn. 14:21.

"Jesus answered him, "If a man loves Me, he will keep My Word, and my Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our Home with him." Jn. 14:23.

Do you love Jesus? If you do, you will seek His Words, compare them to what you've been taught, and reject anything that is false.

That's God's will for all of us.

Ryan| 10.17.11 @ 8:55AM

Have you studied the Puritans? They weren't very...Baptist. At all.

Bruce| 10.14.11 @ 1:54PM

Margie;
Why would a church that has no regard whatsoever to be associated with Jesus Christ have His name in the title of their Church - THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS. We have young men and women "quietly working in the field". We also have adults and couples doing the same work. I feel sorry for all those who believe "till death do us part." I have been sealed to my wife for time and all eternity and I KNOW I will get to live with her again after I leave this world. I KNOW we will be able to live together as a family just as God, the Father, and Jesus Christ, His son, lived as a family before Christ came to Earth to give up His life for me. I also know Christ sits at the right hand of His Father and they live as a family again today. If we are all "God's children" did that end when we came here to Earth. What is our status when we return home?

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 2:15PM

Bruce,

Lots of Religions use the Name of Christ, but aren't really following Him.

It's what the Bible calls "Holding the form of Religion, but denying it's Power." 2 Tim. 3:5.

Did you just actually say that you feel sorry for all those who believe in "till death do us part?"

Do you actually believe that you can commit Adultery and justify it somehow by saying that you "know you'll be reunited with your wife again?"

How is it that you think you can disobey the Commandment of God: "You shall not commit Adultery." Ex. 20:14?

And that's just for starters.

C Smith| 10.15.11 @ 1:39PM

EVERY PROMISE IN THE BOOK IS MINE, EVERY CHAPTER, EVERY VERSE, EVERY LINE … EVERY PROMISE IN THE BOOK IS MINE, MINE, MINE, MINE.” Unfortunately, the refrain of this old hymn exemplifies the error of essentially every “Christian” cult i.e., spiritualizing His Word, particularly in regard to the "promises" given to Israel. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe they are Revelation’s hundred and forty and four thousand chosen from all the tribes of the children of Israel. Mormons believe they are the ten lost tribes of Israel. British Israelism teaches that Britain is Ephraim and America Manasseh. Searching the internet for the phrase New Covenant, I inadvertently accessed a church of that name that “professes” the Lord Jesus Christ; they believe they are the new white Aryan Israel of God.

http://theisraelofgod.blogspot.....f-god.html

Zerabp| 10.17.11 @ 12:55PM

One Correction we do not believe that we are the lost ten Tribes but we do believe that many who Join us are as well as members of Judah. Most members and Converts are declared to be of Ephraim because anciently it was the only tribe that allowed adoption into it.

Margie| 10.18.11 @ 1:34PM

Better to becoaome a member of the the Body of Christ, and repent of following a liar's teachings.

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 2:19PM

"Why would a church that has no regard whatsoever to be associated with Jesus Christ have His name in the title of their Church - THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS."

Answer: To deceive.

Dan| 10.14.11 @ 3:07PM

Bruce,
You are obviously new here. Margie is the resident Mullah who decides what is a true religion and what is true christianity. If you disagree with her she will call you a liar and a punk to show her christian spirit. So today she is branching out to attack the Mormons religion.

Al Adab| 10.14.11 @ 4:15PM

Dan:
Margie has a gracious streak in her which I find refreshing. Certainly she stands by her views, which is more than certain candidates.

Dan| 10.14.11 @ 4:42PM

Al Adab:
Standing by bigoted hateful views is nothing to be proud of. I prefer a candidate who changes his views when he finds them wrong or no longer valid.
Maybe I misse it but what is this "gracious streak?" Didn't she call you a coward and other names recently? Has she apologized and said she was wrong?

Al Adab| 10.14.11 @ 4:54PM

Dan,
My expression of forgivness need not be based on anothers' action but on my own obedience. Remember that seventy times seven part?

Dan| 10.14.11 @ 5:36PM

Yes, you are correct, and a gentleman. But to forgive someone who continues the same conduct only encourages that conduct. There must be contrition and remorse.

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 7:10PM

Repent, Danny Boy. You're a lying little screwball.

Dan| 10.14.11 @ 11:41PM

Go crawl back under your rock Mullah Margie.

Margie| 10.15.11 @ 12:02PM

Troll:
Digest this:

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death."
Rev. 21:8.

Dan| 10.15.11 @ 12:08PM

Mullah Margie, you should read what your cut and paste.

Clint| 10.16.11 @ 9:46AM

WOW !

American Spectator's Resident Insane Maniac Religious Bigot, Margie Is The Big Yellow Bus Callin' A Canary Yellow.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 1:21PM

"You shall not utter a false report. You shall not join hands with a wicked man, to be a malicious witness."
Ex. 23:1.

"Keep far from a false charge, and do not slay the innocent and righteous, for I will not acquit the wicked." Ex. 23:7.

"He will guard the feet of his faithful ones; but the wicked shall be cut off in darkness; for not by might shall a man prevail." 1 Sam. 2:9.

Praise God!

dominusveritas| 10.14.11 @ 3:38PM

From Luke's Gospel:
20:34-38

[34] Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. [35] But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, [36] and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection. [37] But in the account of the bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord 'the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' [38] He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive."

And from Paul's Letter to the Romans (7:1-2):

Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband."

Here are both Christ and His anointed Apostle speaking about the bond of marriage after death. Who are your "apostles" and "prophets" to contradict the Word of the Living God?

Furthermore, it appears that you have been misled regarding Christ's nature, as laid out in Scripture. Prior to the incarnation, Christ existed with the Father, as a full member of the Godhead, three persons in one God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Christ did indeed live with the Father...as a full member of His own Godhead! See John 1:1:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

And Christ's own words:
"I and the Father are one." ( John 10:30)

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father also." ( John 14:6-7)

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works." ( John 14:10)

"Hear O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one." ( Mark 12:29)

In addition, all of Scripture uniformly declares that there is ONE God, not multiple gods. To attempt to separate the Trinity calls Jesus a liar, when he claims his Godhood, and destroys the very foundation of the ancient Christian faith.

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 7:25PM

dominus whoever says:

"Here are both Christ and His anointed Apostle speaking about the bond of marriage after death. Who are your "apostles" and "prophets" to contradict the Word of the Living God?"

But the Word of God says:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28.

"I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable." 1 Cor. 15:50.

"Jesus said to them, "Is not this why you are wrong, that you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God?
For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in Heaven." Mk. 12:24 & 25.

Busted!

dominusveritas| 10.14.11 @ 10:31PM

Confused Margie, are you inexplicably arguing with my support for marriage ending with death or backing me up?

wesley| 10.16.11 @ 6:29AM

Your interpetation of that passage is through the niecene creed

Ryan| 10.17.11 @ 9:01AM

Or is the Nicene Creed an accurate representation of scripture? It did come afterward...

dominusveritas| 10.17.11 @ 12:47PM

Wesley, the Nicene Creed is the interpretation of Scripture that stands up to scrutiny of Scripture. I'm assuming you hold to the Arian view that Christ did not share the full godhead with the Father. What I would ask you to consider is that this false doctrine did not arise until well after the Ascension of Christ and the death of all the Apostles and original Disciples of Christ. It was never taught by the early church, and does not accord with Scripture.
Recall that, when Christ says these words He is speaking as the humbled Christ, in his full humanity, before his death and resurrection:
“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." (John 14:28)

Margie| 10.15.11 @ 12:04PM

Bruce,

You never answered my question:

How is it that you think you are able to get away with committing Adultery in this life, thereby breaking the Commandment of God?

Al Adab| 10.14.11 @ 12:59PM

The Left simply cannot abide people of principle, especially those with any doctrinal religious beliefs. Anything, any belief system beyond a nebulous spritualism, is anathema to their ideology. It is why they prefer Buddists and Unitarian/Universalists.

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 1:20PM

So true. Although, I'm not exactly sure what kind of "principles" are contained in the cult of Mormon, when they teach that Jesus is Satan's brother. LOL.

Of course, many people just buy into a Religion because it's comfortable to the flesh. Genuine Christianity is the least comfortable, because we know we are called to suffer with Christ. Rom. 8:17.

Therefore, I do not take seriously the Mormon Religion, or any other that preaches a different gospel, and Romney is nothing to be afraid of, either. His Religion, like all other false ones, is utterly powerless.

And, since we aren't living under a Theocracy, he can't make laws concerning what he believes.

I do not want him to become the nominee, not because of his Religion, but because he's too liberal.

Bruce| 10.14.11 @ 1:57PM

So, Margie, what was Satan's role before he was cast out of Heaven? How did he get there in the first place? Did God invite Satan and the angels who rebelled with him up for a chit-chat just so he could prove who's who?

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 2:33PM

Bruce: Your Religion is a perverted cult.
You need to repent and believe the Gospel of God. Mk. 1:1.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....pound.html

dominusveritas| 10.14.11 @ 3:44PM

Margie,

The Word alone has power to create faith; attacks will inflame Bruce and his kin and harden their hearts. That is not our goal.

Bruce,

Satan is a created angel of God, the Angel of Light. He was cast out of heaven because he aspired to be god. Nowhere in the inspired Word of God is Satan rebuked as Christ's brother.

Al Adab| 10.14.11 @ 4:52PM

The ONLY begotten Son of the Father.

ytsur| 10.15.11 @ 8:37PM

Seem Adam was also the Son of God, please see Luke 3:38 Who was the son of Enos, who was the son of Seth, who was the son of Adam, who was the son of God.
(http://bible.cc/luke/3-38.htm)

Ryan| 10.17.11 @ 9:03AM

Adam doesn't have the description "only begotten" there. Context is everything.

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 7:12PM

The Word commands Christians to preach His Gospel.

If you or anybody else sees that as attacking, you're no Christian.

Dan| 10.16.11 @ 8:28AM

You are not a Christian, you a a bigot Margie Mullah.

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 7:31PM

Say, DannyBoy:

Do you believe that the Pope is the Vicar of Crist on Earth?

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 7:13PM

diminusveritas:

What the blazes are you talking about?
Oh, never mind.

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 7:42PM

p.s. dominu-whatever.
Bruce already knows that.

Answer not a fool according to his folly.

dominusveritas| 10.14.11 @ 10:39PM

Margie,

As a confessional Lutheran and son of a Pastor, I'm telling you that hateful attacks won't succeed in doing anything other than turning Bruce and his kind from ever opening his ears to hear. Saying things like "your religion is a perverted cult" is NOT speaking the gospel and is generally counterproductive, even though it is true!

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 11:35PM

You Lefty Liberal so-called Christians make me sick.
You must be a member of the Rev. Wright's theme of thought:
It's hate to preach the gospel of Jesus Chrsit.
Buzz off, troll.

dominusveritas| 10.15.11 @ 10:40AM

Actually Margie, I'm a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Synod, perhaps the MOST conservative Lutheran church body in the U.S. Liberal is the last word anyone could use to describe our doctrines, so I don't get why you're attacking me. Especially since I've supported all of your points. I'm merely taking issue with your combative delivery of the Gospel. Christ calls us to represent him in our vocations, but not to throw names and deliver it harshly. The gospel is truth and preaching it is never hate.

Margie| 10.15.11 @ 12:00PM

Being a member of anything means diddly-squat.
Troll.

dominusveritas| 10.15.11 @ 11:54PM

You're right Margie. Let me be clear because obviously I was not clear enough before: I hold the historic confessions of the Lutheran Church - The Book of Concord, the Augsburg Confession, both Small and Large Catechisms as true confessions of the Christian faith. The Bible is God's divinely inspired Word. Faith in Christ is the only way to salvation. There is one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

And name calling and harsh language reflect poorly on us as Christians.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 1:15PM

YOU were the one who began the false accusing of me, hypocrite.
YOU were the one who accused me of "attacking" Bruce, here, which I was NOT doing.
I care about him knowing God's Truth.
It is what I'm called to do.
Hypocrite.

Dan| 10.14.11 @ 3:09PM

If I was Romney I wouldn't want someone like you as a supporter. It would turn nomal voters.

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 7:41PM

Why are you posting as Dan today, but usually you're Joseph?
You cannot hide your spirit.

Dan| 10.14.11 @ 11:42PM

Well Mullah there is a simple reason. I am Dan, not Joseph. Got that. Joseph is not the only who who thinks you are a bigot.

Margie| 10.15.11 @ 11:59AM

Same lying spirit. You're a lying Troll.
Get lost.

Dan| 10.15.11 @ 12:09PM

After you Mullah. What I have lied about?

Margie| 10.15.11 @ 12:11PM

Troll.

Dan| 10.15.11 @ 12:15PM

Mullah Bigot. We can do this all day long.

Margie| 10.15.11 @ 11:48PM

I know, scumbag. So, buzz off.

Dan| 10.16.11 @ 8:27AM

After you Bigot Mullah.

MissyH| 10.17.11 @ 6:52PM

^^^^^As a lifelong secular humanist Democrat, I'm loving this type of exchange between GOPers.

Party on, Marge, Bruce et al! I'll be the one who is delightedly filling the popcorn bowl and grinning madly....

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 7:33PM

It sounds to me like you're the one into partying. I'm not a partier. I care about God's Truth, no matter what the price.

Jesus died for you~ how are YOU treating Him?

Peppermint Tea| 10.14.11 @ 1:01PM

I'm not afraid of Romney getting elected, although he is not Tea Party enough for me, I'm concerned that under President Romney the Left will attribute every move he makes as "Mormon" inspired.

Bruce| 10.14.11 @ 2:02PM

I am LDS and Romney isn't "Tea Party" enough for me either. If the "Mormon" inspired things he would do would bring this nation back to some semblance of sanity, morality and fiscal health, I'm all for it. Here's how "radical" one of those "Mormons" was. "In 1953, Benson was appointed U.S. Secretary of Agriculture by President Eisenhower. Benson accepted this position with the permission of Church President David O. McKay and therefore served simultaneously in the United States Cabinet and in the LDS Church's Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

Benson opposed the system of government price supports and aid to farmers which he was entrusted by Eisenhower to administer, arguing that it amounted to unacceptable socialism. Nonetheless, he survived in his cabinet position for all eight years of Eisenhower's presidency. He was selected as the administrator-designate of the Emergency Food Agency, part of a secret group that became known as the Eisenhower Ten. The group was created by Eisenhower in 1958 to serve in the event of a national emergency.

Benson was an outspoken opponent of communism and socialism, and supporter, but not a member, of the John Birch Society, which he praised as "the most effective non-church organization in our fight against creeping socialism and Godless Communism."[2] He published a 1966 pamphlet entitled Civil Rights, Tool of Communist Deception.[3][4] In a similar vein, during a 1972 general conference of the LDS Church, Benson recommended that all Mormons read Gary Allen's New World Order tract "None Dare Call it A Conspiracy"."

Teflon93| 10.14.11 @ 3:08PM

We've certainly seen that script before with W. Who knew Jesus suffered on the Cross that seniors would have their grandchildren pay their prescription drug bills?

Occam's Tool| 10.14.11 @ 1:06PM

Two things I know: Obama is losing, and Paul ain't getting nominated, in 2012. That's enough for me.

Clint| 10.16.11 @ 9:53AM

This is the same Screwball Israel Firster Fanatic,Tool Job,who said:

" Occam's Tool| 8.8.11 @ 4:30PM

Pawlenty is going to wipe the plate with Paul."

The Tea Party Steps On Tool Job's Face.

Jerome Brick| 10.14.11 @ 1:46PM

The only creepy Mormon I can think of is Harry Reid.

Seek| 10.14.11 @ 2:44PM

If Mitt Romney keeps his religious convictions separate from his responsibilities as executive branch leader and commander-in-chief of our armed forces, I don't care what he believes. Granted, any religion that holds that wearing magic underpants can protect the wearer from a bullet, a knife or unspecified sins is, well...kind of weird. But if Romney can reserve his piety for functions outside the purview of the State, I don't see a scandal. His job as president would be to protect my liberties, not promote my spiritual growth.

Teflon93| 10.14.11 @ 3:10PM

I don't worry about Romney's faith in God but rather his faith in Leviathan. He could pray to Allah 5 times a day and that would bother me less than RomneyCare.

Al Adab| 10.14.11 @ 4:51PM

Yes, Tef:
Should we not be seeking a candidate who eschews the concept of activist government and recognizes that the quickest way to prosperity (and liberty) is to get government out of our pockets and homes?

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 7:14PM

Yes!

fitley| 10.14.11 @ 5:05PM

Yes it's those rascally Dem's that are anti-Mormon. How could anybody think the racist, intolerant, bible-thumping goobers in the Republican Party would have a problem with a Mormon. Ha, you're killing me. No no please you're really killing me.

fitley| 10.14.11 @ 5:08PM

Have ya'll considered running a turd? You could have a contest to name it, that would get the voters interested. Corny McStool. You know, something clever.

Bill S| 10.14.11 @ 5:31PM

Mormonism is a cult. They teach that Mormonism is the only true religion. That Jesus and Satan were brothers. That God was a man who became God. They teach that God had sex with Mary to produce Jesus. They teach that black people were cursed by God. There were no black Mormons until 1978.

dlwach| 10.15.11 @ 11:50AM

Excuse me, Bill. We Mormons believe that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus, God's only begotten in the flesh Son. You don't believe it was possible without her having sex?? How do all Christians believe God brought it about? Also I personally knew several wonderful black Mormons before 1978.

Jeamar37| 10.14.11 @ 5:39PM

Margie: Why don't you write a book and then those who are fascinated by your religious opinions can get their fill? If Mormonism offend you, don't go to its churches. If you don't like Jews, stay away from synagogues,. If you don't like Catholics, don't be one. You have made your point clear: You think Mormonism is a cult. That is your opinion. After two days, give it a rest!

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 7:15PM

Why don't you move over, so someone else can be the big boss?
LOL!

Jeamar37| 10.14.11 @ 8:55PM

Being a big boss. Is that what you are really all about?

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 9:08PM

No, it seems that's what you are trying to do with me. Shut me up.

Margaret| 10.15.11 @ 10:59AM

Margie. You have nothing to say or add to any conversation. Save time just write your name and we know what you will say.

Margie| 10.15.11 @ 12:05PM

Troll:

Digest this:

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death." Rev. 21:8.

Clint| 10.16.11 @ 9:57AM

American Spectator's Resident Religious Bigot, Margie makes some more converts with Her Church Of Margie Religion of One.

This Broad Is Insane.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 1:13PM

Slob.
Repent, filthy liar.

"Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy."
"Behold, I am coming soon, bringing My recompense, to repay every one for what he has done.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the Tree of Life and that they may enter the City by the Gates.
Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and every one who loves and practices falsehood." Rev. 22:11-15.

Rich Rostrom| 10.14.11 @ 5:46PM

Not all Democrats are secular liberals who dislike Mormon piety.

Some (a lot of blacks) are evangelical Christians who object to Mormon doctrine.

Some (a lot of blacks) object to the Church's racial history: its exclusion of blacks from the priesthood until 1978. (Not from membership, Bill S.: there were black Mormons in the 1800s.)

And some are people like Weisberg, who find the claimed provenance and content of the Mormon scriptures to be obvious frauds, and can't accept anyone who professes belief in them.

Naturalborn Texicanette| 10.14.11 @ 6:58PM

Answer to AARP...

http://www.amac.us/amac-was-fo.....to-aarp-2/

CalMark| 10.14.11 @ 7:23PM

Lots of Bible-thumping going on here. Yeah, yeah, I know--THE LORD told you to BEAR WITNESS and condemn to hell anyone who doesn't agree with EXACTLY everything you say. OK, fine. We don't go to church with you, we're going to hell, so is Romney.

Which brings us to the point. Romney's political and public liabilities notwithstanding, four more years of Obama is better than four years of a Mormon.

Oooooo-Kaaaaaay.

I'd better not see any of you complaining if Obama wins a second term if you folks won't vote for him for religious reasons.

P.S. The MSM has absolutely no problem with "Cypher Boy" Huntsman, and he's a Mormon, too.

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 7:40PM

Cal-Mark,

Spare me, ok?

You don't have the ability to see or read what anybody says, do you?

Christians are called to preach the gospel, yup. And it isn't me or any other person that does the condemning of those who refuse to believe in Jesus, it's His Own Words.

It's a convenient thing for you to condemn Christians for telling the truth isn't it?

Yet even when I have said I would still vote for Romney if he becomes the nominee, you conveniently ignore that.

It really IS possible to stand on Scripture, refute false Religion, and still realize that Romney (IF he's the nominee) would be preferable to Obama.

Heh, I have been voting straight Republican my entire voting life. You'd have to kill me first before I'd ever vote for a Democrat~ or WORSE~ not vote at all.

How's your voting record?

CalMark| 10.14.11 @ 8:29PM

I've voted Straight Republican my whole life. I'm gratified to hear that your religious beliefs won't interfere with trying to get rid of Obama.

Honestly, your intention to vote for Romney if necessary kind of gets lost in all your fire and brimstone. If you think that's your way of bearing witness, fine: just remember, the message gets lost when you pull out the stops all the time.

Moreover, how do you reconcile your very strict religious philosophy with voting for someone you think is going to Hell? I'm not trying to be funny or flip--that has intrigued me for some time about people like you. Life must be interesting, having to interact constantly with people you think are, quite literally, doomed and damned.

Even Our Lord had moments of moral agony, as in Gethsemane before the Crucifixion. People as sure of themselves--about anything--as you generally wind up getting a nasty shock on some day of reckoning.

Margie| 10.14.11 @ 9:05PM

Well CalMark, I appreciate how you just responded, glad to know you've also voted Republican you're whole life too. I've always thought it's the least I can do.

As to what I say to others, I say it for a good reason, to wake them up. (Spiritually). The Bible describes it this way, and it is truly amazing:

"So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ." Rom. 10:17.

(And He uses the little peons like me, who have nothing to lose.)

You asked how I "reconcile my very strict Religious philosophy" with voting for someone I think is going to Hell. I don't know where Romney's going to go when he dies, but Jesus does.

It's Jesus' standard that is the Judge. Jesus says that whoever doesn't believe in Him condemns themselves, because they do not believe. Jn. 3:18.

It's important that everyone knows this truth!

The Bible says that we are ALL ruined sinners, unfit for His Kingdom, and that no matter what we believe, if it isn't in Christ, we're not able to enter His Heaven. God says that NO ONE is good, but God.

It's when He wakes us up, opens our eyes spiritually and gives us His Eyes to see, and His Spirit to dwell in our hearts, that the change, or regeneration from a life of sin and unbelief can occur, and this is in itself greater than any physical miracle.

The Bible says that we are all dead in Sin until He does this with us. How?
Romans 10:9 & 10.

As to being sure of myself? Actually, CalMark, I was born with ZERO self confidence.
ALL my confidence is in Christ. I am NOTHING without Him.
Christians realize that we are utterly unworthy of His mercy. In fact, when He saves you, you become even more aware of it, and so on the older that I get.
But, like the Apostle Paul said, "Thanks be to God Who gives us the victory, through the Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Cor. 15:57.

Christians trust in His mercy, we get to know His love, and if we stay close to Him in this way, have no fear of judgement, because as it is written:

"There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love." 1 Jn. 4:18.

I'm trusting in His mercy, I've done it for almost 40 years, and He's never failed me yet.

POST American| 10.14.11 @ 11:19PM

-------------------BOTTOM LINE-----------------------

Sourced in Freemasonry, and ever involved
with selective breeding and EUGENICS,
Mormonism is an ORGAN--ization.

IF that's what you want ----that's up to you.
Just be clear as to the nature of the thing.

---------FAR more urgent to be looking at
is the revelatory betrayal, just days ago, by
33rd degree Freemason disguised as
a Tell--A--Vangelist con-job, PAT ROBERTSON's
green lighting of the dumping of spouses with
Alzheimer's.

Putting aside that we can't remember
Robertson EVER delving into the EUGENICS
program that's bringing on so much of
the Alzheimer's (ie Aluminum Oxide CHEM-trailing
/ radical 'social engineering' ops/
----indeed, alpha state TELEVSION watching!)---

This is spitting in the face of Christ's own
uttered doctrine of 'One Man --One
Woman ---ONE LIFE'.

This, in fact, opens the door to the 'fave'
Masonic op ---EUGENICS for expediency.

With America facing a critical birth
defecit, thanks to 'A--bore---shun',
and with that genercidal Chinese surplus
male population exceeding 30 MILLION
-----UH------ I think we can see where
that's taking us.

THIS IS NOT TO BE TOLERATED
FROM ANYONE IN A CHRISTIAN CHURCH.

ROBERTSON should be exposed, deposed
and drummed out---------and prosecuted
for FRAUD.

He can join his friend, confessed Arminian
Heretic and, so we now learn, ANOTHER
33rd degree Mason --the Hearst Corp. set
up ---BILLY GRAHAM.

--BTW ------Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and,
no doubt, Robert Schuller, Joel Osteen and
virtually ALL of the 'on show' others are lodge lizard operators as well.

---------------TIME TO CLEAN HOUSE---------------

HarshLightOfReality| 10.15.11 @ 12:34AM

"The LDS church holds that Joseph Smith, directed by the angel Moroni, unearthed a book of golden plates buried in a hillside in Western New York in 1827. The plates were inscribed in "reformed" Egyptian hieroglyphics"

Wow...who would believe this..total fiction.

This is much more believable:

An invisible entity in the sky decides to impregnate a human woman. She has a son that grows up to tell us all to be nice. Then he's murdered, comes back from the dead, and vanishes to live with the invisible entity in the sky. From this point on, he is watching every move you make and keeping score how good or bad you are...

Or even better....

Some guy, from the desert, suddenly has the same invisible entity in the sky talk to him. It tells the desert guy to write down everything it says and then make sure everybody else believes...or else.

Or...

Some bald, chubby asian guy wanders the east and tells everyone to be nice. If they do, then after they die, they come back as something cooler.

Or...

There are spirits in everything...be cool at all times (shinto)...sounds about the most rational to me.

The bottom line is that no matter what "belief" you connect with, all the others are cults.

Me? I'm waiting for Wotan (Odin, if you're Swedish) to kick all the other gods asses and bring me to Valhalla where I party for all time.

HarshLightOfReality| 10.15.11 @ 7:38PM

What's the matter religious brainwashed...too close to the truth to respond?

Cowards...guess your magic underwear is in the wash ;)

Margie| 10.15.11 @ 11:45PM

Well, it is true that not all have faith.

Believer| 10.15.11 @ 7:44AM

Heres a question for the world. What do Catholics believe The Pope is? When I was a child they taught that he was infallable.As far as I know the only infallable person to walk this earth is Jesus Christ. I would much rather have a President that fallows his or her faith ,whether or not I believe the same , than a President who professes to believe something to get me to vote for them.

Margaret| 10.15.11 @ 11:03AM

I doubt you were raised a Catholic since you can't even spell infallible. The pope is not infallible. When he speaks ex cathedra he cannot err.

Margie| 10.15.11 @ 12:07PM

Ex Cathedra?
LOL.
Yeah, when he speaks Catholic doctrine, he can't err~ he knows it well.
As to biblical truth, nope.

Margaret| 10.15.11 @ 1:01PM

LOL? That is your favorite comment and the extent of you reasoning.
Of course it applies to Catholic doctrine. Did you think it applied to opinions about sports teams?

As to biblical truth, you are the only one who knows bibilical truth.

Margie| 10.15.11 @ 11:44PM

Well there, Margaret, it means EVERYTHING!

Being that the Pope does not abide by the Word of God, but by false Religious doctrine SHOULD mean something to you, too.
Apparently not.
Like most Catholics that have been bought and sold by this cult~ you shrug that fact off, and keep on following the false teachings instead.
When presented with Scripture, you just throw stones and scoff.
But I guess it's what you are destined to do.
Sad.
I'm not the standard, God's Word is. And I take my stand on Him.
You just cannot stomach it.

Dan| 10.16.11 @ 8:31AM

You are not a Christian. You would not admit that the divinity of Jesus. You have your own little cult.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 1:08PM

I have been posting my believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Saviour of mankind here for over two years, you flaming liar.

Not buzz off, creepy TROLL.

"In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the Prophets; but in these last days He has spoken to us by a Son, whom He appointed the Heir of all things, through Whom also He created the world.
He reflects the Glory of God and bears the very Stamp of His Nature, upholding the universe by His word of power. When he had made purification for sins, He sat down at the Right Hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to Angels as the Name He has obtained is more excellent than theirs." Heb. 1:1-4.

Now, TROLL, what about the Scripture is it that YOU do not believe?

Dan| 10.16.11 @ 3:07PM

Bigot Margie, answer:
Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus? yes or no.

Do you believe Jesus is God? yes or no.
Bet you won't answer but resort to another cut and paste evasion.
You aren't a Christian.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 4:06PM

Do you agree with what the Scripture says above, or do you deny it?
I believe it.

Dan| 10.16.11 @ 4:17PM

Bigot Margie
As usual you refuse to answer yes or no which means NO you don't believe Jesus is God and you certainly don't believe in the divinity of Jesus. You can cut and paste all day long but your refusal to say Yes is clear that you are not a Christian. A Christian would say Yes without resorting to a cut and paste evasion.
Since you aren't a Christian you are in no position to pass judgment on if Mormons or Catholics or Jews or anyone else has a false religion. Because all you have is your own made up cult of one, or maybe two.
So buzz off Bigot.
Unless you answer Yes and then I won't ask you again.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 5:11PM

Do you believe what the Scripture says, PUNK?

Dan| 10.16.11 @ 7:13PM

Bigot Margie,
Why are you afraid to answer a simple question, either you believe Jesus is God or you don't. Nobody cares what you believe in. But you set yourself as the authority on the Bible of your choice and you don't believe Jesus is God. So you believe in your version and understanding of your Bible, but you are not a Christian if you don't believe Jesus is God. Repeating that Jesus is the Son of God doesn't answer the question., and you know it.
You can call everyone here a punk and liar, but you are the one passing yourself off as a Christian when you aren't because you don't believe Jesus is God, and the divinity of Jesus.
You can evade the question all you want, and cut and past, duck and hide, call names., but you can't change the facts. You are not a Christian unless you believe in the divinity of Jesus. Nobody cares just admit it. And buzz off Bigot Punkette.

Dan| 10.16.11 @ 7:15PM

Bigot Margie,
You also keep dodging the question of is the Jewish religion a false religion? Also afraid to answer this question.

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 12:45AM

I'm not afraid of anything or anyone, scumbag.
Especially not you.
And I've already answered you numerous times. so buzz off.
Liar.
YOU haven't answered the question though:
Do YOU believe the Scripture concerning Who Christ is?

Dan| 10.17.11 @ 3:19PM

Bigot Margie

You are afraid to answer the question because you know you are not a Christian.

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 7:34PM

TROLL:

Answer me this:

Do you believe that the Pope is the Vicar of Christ on Earth?

Dan| 10.17.11 @ 7:45PM

Bigot Margie,
Of course the Pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth. Your parents and grandparents believe that too. But you hate them, right?
Now Mullah, answer the question:
Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus? Is Jesus God?
Stop avoiding,ducking and weaving, and anwering a question with a question. We all know you don't believe in the divinity of Jesus. You went through this with others, like RCV and Joseph. You are not a Christian.

victor| 10.17.11 @ 10:59PM

"Of course the Pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth."

Well then, dear sir, YOU do NOT believe in the Divinity of Christ, because Jesus Christ is LORD, and he doesn't need a freaking "vicar" on Earth.

"For there is one God, and there is one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus."
1 Tim. 2:5.

Repent, Catholic Bigot against the Word of God:

"Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent, and believe in the gospel." Mk. 1:14 & 15.

"But even if we, or an Angel from Heaven, should preach to you a Gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a Gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed." Gal. 1:8 & 9.

Dan| 10.18.11 @ 4:45PM

Hey Idiot Victor,
Or is it Mullah Margie,

Being the Vicar has nothing to do with the divinity of Jesus. You are again trying to avoid answering No that you do not believen in the divinity if Jesus because then you will admit your are not a Christian. Doesn't matter because we all know here you are just a bigot, and an uninformed bigot.

Don't you believe that Jesus is God?

You comments are straight out of the Jack Chick comic books and Jimmy Swaggart. You are an idiot.

Margie| 10.18.11 @ 5:49PM

It has everything to do with believing in Christ.
Since JESUS IS LORD, and the ONLY Mediator between God and Man, according to the Scripture, no Pope is needed.

There IS NO Popery in the Bible, Bigot against the living Word of God.

Repent and believe Christ's Gospel. Mk. 1:1.

Liars go to Hell, and that is what you are doing. Continually lying, bearing false witness, and rejecting Scripture.

""He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all. Our forefathers threw off the yoke of Popery in religion; for you is reserved the honor of leveling the popery of politics. They opened the Bible to all, and maintained the capacity of every man to judge for himself in religion."
- Samuel Adams, Speech at the State House, Philadelphia, August 1, 1776

I'm with him. I'm also with the Scriptures that speak the very Words of God.

Repent, liar!

Believer| 10.15.11 @ 10:45PM

What would the ability to spell have to do with being raised Catholic? Does every Catholic child get straight A's in school?I was an Altar
boy for four years.I attended Bible Study when I was eight years old.I took three years of Chatechism (oh I hope I spelled that right), and my mother whom I love dearly is still a devout Catholic.I have read the Book Of Mormon more than once or twice. Let me share with you a little insight, you have the right to believe whatever you wish, I'm ok with that .Please stop denying that same right to those who choose to believe something else.We will all come face to face with Jesus Christ in the end . Let him be the judge of whether or not I believe in him. My own mother can see the good that membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has done for me .

Margie| 10.15.11 @ 11:46PM

You are right, Believer. We should only be following Jesus, not the Pope. Or any other man for that matter.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 12:31AM

And certainly NOT Joseph Smith!

Jesus is LORD.

Believer| 10.16.11 @ 8:36AM

I dont follow Joeseph Smith. I follow Jesus Christ .It's Sunday so I'm off to church to do as Jesus said to do.Hope you do the same.Have a pleasant day.Please remember to be kind and loving in all that you do, for we are all children of GOD.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 1:03PM

No, we're NOT all children of God. Only those who receive and believe in Jesus are.

Uh, and you just said you are a Mormon, therefore you ARE in agreement with this cult.
And going to church doesn't save you.
Loving the Truth will.
And Mormonism isn't God's Truth.
You cannot serve two Masters.

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The Words that I say to you I do not speak on My Own authority; but the Father Who dwells in Me does His Works." Jn. 14:10.

"Jesus answered him, "If a man loves Me, he will keep My Word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our Home with him." Jn. 14:23.

Do you see the word, "IF" there?
IF you love Jesus, you will keep HIS Word.
NOT Joseph Smith's word, the liar.
Or anybody else's word for that matter, who does not teach His Word, according to the Scripture, written in the Bible.

"But to all who received Him, who believed in His Name, he gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." Jn 1:12 & 13.

Dan| 10.16.11 @ 3:09PM

So the Mullah does not approve of Mormons and Catholics. What about Jews? They aren't Christians so is theirs a false religion?

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 7:37PM

No, PUNK:

God does not approve of anyone who preaches a different gospel:

"..not that there is another Gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the Gospel of Christ.
But even if we, or an Angel from Heaven, should preach to you a Gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed." Gal. 1:7 & 8.

Take it up with God, TROLL.

Dan| 10.17.11 @ 7:48PM

Mullah-Punkette,
When did God tell you this?
Are you afraid to say you believe the Jews have a false religion?

Margie| 10.18.11 @ 5:50PM

It's in the Bible, Papist.
Something you apparently know little of.

Believer| 10.18.11 @ 8:43PM

Margie
John 14:23. "If aman loves Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our home with him."
Do you believe the words of Jesus Christ that you quote? He said that We (read Father and Son) will come to him.
Hebrews 13:8 "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and for ever." If the GOD of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob visited Moses, then why could He not visit another who loves Him?
John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me..."
When Jesus was asked what was the greatest commandment his answer was to love God with all your might, mind and strength,and the second is like unt it: love your neighbor as yourself.

Clint| 10.16.11 @ 4:56PM

Duuuuuuhhhh !

The Pope Follows Jesus , Chronic Fixated Lapsed Catholic/Anti-Catholic Bigot Margie.

"And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. "

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 5:11PM

No, he doesn't. He's a flaming liar, like you.
He is a FRAUD who makes himself like God.
Repent, liar.

Margie| 10.18.11 @ 5:51PM

"He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all. Our forefathers threw off the yoke of Popery in religion; for you is reserved the honor of leveling the popery of politics. They opened the Bible to all, and maintained the capacity of every man to judge for himself in religion."
- Samuel Adams, Speech at the State House, Philadelphia, August 1, 1776

Rebekah| 10.15.11 @ 8:39AM

"pastor introducing Texas Governor Rick Perry before a major gathering of religious conservatives said the nomination should go to a "genuine follower of Jesus Christ." "

Does this man claim that he knows the heart of God by stating that Perry is a genuine follower of Jesus Christ? No one knows a man or what dwells within his soul. For all we know Perry might be the Anti-Christ, himself. But since I cannot read a man's heart or whether or not Perry is sincere in his Christian belief I don't try and assume that Perry is a genuine follower of Christ.

The same goes for Mitt Rommney, I don't know his heart either. I know Romney would disagree with these statements and state that he is also a follower of Christ. Can we seriously argue with a man's convictions and what he states? Anything else anyone states in regards to belief whether they believe it to be false or true is simply arbitrary. I get tired of people trying to read into the hearts of men and claim people are true followers of Christ, if this really was true then this country wouldn't be in the mess that it is now.

Margie| 10.15.11 @ 11:40PM

"I get tired of people trying to read into the hearts of men and claim people are true followers of Christ.."

Rebekah,
God says that what's in a person's heart comes out of their mouths, so we DO know:

"..For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." Mt.12:34.

Chris| 10.15.11 @ 8:58AM

This is all so rediculous. If Harry Reid, a Mormon, can be a Democrat and the Senate Majority Leader, then Mitt Romney can be President. Shut up about religion, people. This race is not about religion! It is about where the candidate stands on the issues that affect this country and the capacity to be a strong leader who can get this country back on its feet.

mamaof8| 10.15.11 @ 10:35AM

Thank you, Chris. I agree.

Snowyone| 10.15.11 @ 9:20AM

It might surprise Margie to know that Romney does not believe SHE will go to the hell she consigns him to. He believes all will go to heaven and that hell will be her own personal remorse for the un-Christ-like things she has said about others.
But the point here really, really is NOT about religion but about getting rid of the Obamination that has been trashing this country for the last 3 years. TRY NOT TO LOSE FOCUS on that issue and get hung up on cults (by Margie's definition all religions are cults) and splitting hairs definitions of Christianity. What we need is a good and decent man who believes in telling the truth. I am not a fan of Romney, either, but I do know he is decent and honest and will not decieve us by pretending to care about us and then try to become "king of the world" as the Obamination has.
We need to back someone who can WIN so let's just focus on that and get this country back on track!

Margie| 10.15.11 @ 12:09PM

"It might surprise Margie to know that Romney does not believe SHE will go to the hell she consigns him to. He believes all will go to heaven and that hell will be her own personal remorse."

I didn't do that, liar.

I simply quoted what God says:

"He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." Jn. 3:18.

That goes for ALL of us. Everyone.

HarshLightOfReality| 10.15.11 @ 5:52PM

god says...

give be a break...are you Mohammed? From gods mouth to your ear? These words were written by people to keep other people in line.

Like you...brainwashed fool

Margie| 10.15.11 @ 11:38PM

I'm not a fool, I believe in God.
Do you?

"The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, doing abominable iniquity; there is none that does good." Ps. 53:1.

Dan| 10.16.11 @ 8:32AM

She is the Mullah, you are on the right track

Margie| 10.18.11 @ 5:54PM

Jesus is LORD.
Repent and believe the Gospel of God. Mk. 1:1.

Rob N| 10.15.11 @ 10:08AM

We need to draw a distinction here. The constitution states that there is no religious test for high office. Fine. That prevents us from passing laws that limit political offices to certain faiths. In other words, people from all religions may seek public office in the U.S.

But the Romney operatives aim to forbid voters from considering the religious or philosophical ideas when casting a vote. That is completely wrong and deceptive.

Mormonism is not an orthodox offshoot of christianity; it is a cult. This is well documented. Don't let Romney's operatives on this message board and countless others intimidate you by calling you a bigot for daring to question how a candidate's faith will affect his or her ability to govern.

If Romney persuades voters to choose him, then he cannot be legally disqualified from serving. He can't be removed from office based on his Mormonism. But for people who care about the philosophical underpinnings of a candidate, determining whether you have a problem with a candidate's philosophy is important before they pull that lever.

S Smith| 10.15.11 @ 12:25PM

It is well documented by people that believe that, but believe me its not true. If you research the tenets of the original Church of Christ on this earth you'll find the teaches of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints pure and simple.

Orion| 10.20.11 @ 12:55PM

Very well said, Rob N.

Snowyone| 10.15.11 @ 10:31AM

Unless you have thoroughly investigated The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints you are not qualified to call it a cult. The Mormon church is only "well documented as a cult" by those who know nothing about it. Calling it a cult shows your ignorance. And just because other people say it is a cult doesn't make it so.
Personally, I had a problem with Kennedy being a Catholic who committed adultery! It's not the religion but the man that matters. Does he live his religion? How does he/she treat others? Does his/her religion teach one to hate others for what they believe as so many other Christian religions do? Also, read "harshlightofreality" comments about what other religions believe and examine your own beliefs before you go calling people cultists.
Why does no one mention "cultist Mormon" Harry Reid??? He has done more harm to this country (Obamacare, etc.) in chahoots with Pelosi than a hundred politicians could do in a lifetime. It's all about the political philosophy, not the religion!
The evangelicals who persecute Mormons are more scary to me than a Mormon would be. What is the good in spreading hatred and mis-information about others? It is a poorly disguised attempt to advance one's own agenda. Does Romney go around trashing the beliefs of others? I think not.
And no, I am not an operative for Romney. Just a fed-up-with-lies Christian.

Margie| 10.15.11 @ 12:11PM

If you're a fed up with lies Christian, you'd better quit lying.

Dan| 10.15.11 @ 12:20PM

The only one here who trashes the beliefs of others is Mullah Margie because she is the only one who knows the truth.

Margie| 10.15.11 @ 11:36PM

Jesus IS the Truth. Jn. 14:6.
I simply repeat what HE says, and YOU cannot stand it.
Too bad.

Dan| 10.16.11 @ 8:33AM

Jesus is the truth. But you are just a plain bigot. Now you pick on the Mormon religion. Go back under your rock. Scumbag.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 12:52PM

Liar. I'm speaking the truth. Unlike you, the accuser of the brethren. You serve your master well.

Rob N| 10.15.11 @ 12:39PM

And here we go. Look, if you are a follower of Jesus Christ and you are familiar with the bible, you would clearly understand that the gospel of mormonism is a false gospel and the Christ of Mormonism is a false christ.

I have researched Mormonism and i am familiar with scripture. Read matt. 24:24; mark 13:22; the book of Colossians (addresses the gnostic heresies); the book of Jude (diatribe against false teachers); etc. Mormonism was birthed from Joseph Smith's experience with a being named Moroni. Many of its precepts conflict directly with orthodox scripture. Read Walter Smith if you really want to know more.

If voters are cool with Romney's mormonism, then that is acceptable by our con

HarshLightOfReality| 10.15.11 @ 11:31PM

Naturally, every "quote" you cite is word-o-god..read this, read that, book of this, book of that....fool

Tool...you're as brainwashed as the mormons...

Now an agnostic candidate, that's for me. No atheist, they're as crazy as the religious fanatics.

S Smith| 10.15.11 @ 12:22PM

I've learned over the years that the anti mormons have only made us stronger. Its good to know how others perceive us so we can improve upon their perspective.

Snowyone| 10.15.11 @ 12:29PM

Just what exactly am I lying about?? I think Margie is the one spreading lies. None so blind as those who will not see...

Rob N| 10.15.11 @ 1:00PM

If snowyone is not a Romney operative, then i will take him at his word. But these message boards are filled with Establishment and Romney operatives. Their job is to advance a narrative and shape opinion. They are trained to move voters away from alternatives to Romney. They will almost instinctively tarnish other candidates upon mention. Their attacks frequently are reduced to soundbite format so as to lodge simple ideas in the voter's conciousness. Thus, you get the following simplistic narratives:

Ron Paul -- loon , fringe, anti-semitic, etc.
Rick Perry -- stupid Texan, brash, impulsive, etc.
Michele Bachman -- extremist, in-over-her-head, etc.

The point of their strategy is to reduce political judgments tosimple soundbites so as not to encourage voters to think deeply about the issues. Romney operatives hope that Tea Partiers waste their considerable anger fighting over trivialities and remain divided. The goal is for Romney to avoid hard scrutiny.

Herman Cain is being used by Romney. He is not a serious candidate. People need to wake up. The religious bigotry charges are another tactic used by the Establishment.

Perry and Paul are the candidates that merit real attention.

C Smith| 10.15.11 @ 1:31PM

Joseph [Smith], a good natured, lazy boy, suffering from a bad heredity physically and psychically, began to have visions which seem to have accompanied epileptoid seizures…

MORMONS: [The Encyclopedia Britannica, Thirteenth Edition, London, vol. 18, pp. 842-843, 1926]… a religious sect founded by Joseph Smith… born… December 1805 at Sharon… Vermont, from which place… his parents, who like his grandparents were superstitious, neurotic, seers of visions, and believers in miraculous cures and in heavenly voices and direct revelation, removed to New York, where they settled on a small farm… Joseph, a good natured, lazy boy, suffering from a bad heredity physically and psychically, began to have visions which seem to have accompanied epileptoid seizures… from which he recovered apparently before he became of age. The boy’s father was a digger for hidden treasure… the son became a crystal gazer and by the use of a “peep-stone” discovered the whereabouts of pretended hidden treasure.

He [Smith] said… that on the night of the 21st of September 1823 the angel Moroni appeared to him three times, and told him that the Bible of the western continent, the supplement to the New Testament, was buried on a hill called Cumorah, now commonly known as Mormon Hill….

It was not until the 22nd of September of 1827 that (as he said) he dug up, on the hill near Manchester, a stone box, in which was a volume… made of thin gold plates… and fastened together by three gold rings. The plates were covered with small writing [supposedly of the reformed Egyptian tongue]… with the golden book Smith claimed that he found a breastplate of gold and a pair of supernatural spectacles, consisting of two crystals set in a silver bow, and called “Urim and Thummin”; by aid of these the mystic characters could be read. Being himself unable to read or write fluently, Smith employed as amanuenses: first Martin Harris… then his own wife, Emma; after the middle of April 1829, Oliver Cowdery, a blacksmith and school teacher, and David Whitmer; to them , from behind a curtain, he dictated a translation, for the printing and publishing of which Martin Harris paid, in spite of the continued opposition of his wife to the scheme. An edition of 5000 copies of The Book of Mormon was printed early in 1830… Soon afterwards, according to Smith, the plates disappeared, being taken away by the angel Moroni.

The Book of Mormon, in which Joseph Smith was declared to be God’s “prophet,” with all power and entitled to all obedience, professes to give the history of America from its first settlement by a colony of “Jaredites” from among the crowd dispersed by the confusion of tongues at the Tower of Babel down to the year 5 A.D.
http://popularapostasy.blogspo.....ummin.html

Buck Ofama| 10.15.11 @ 1:48PM

Excellent post. Too bad Old Joe had to conjure up such goofy terms as "Moroni" and "Cumorha".

HarshLightOfReality| 10.15.11 @ 6:03PM

More religeous BS

I woke up this morning and my pet bird started talking to me in chinese. It said (suddenly I understand chinese) that the angel Obi Wan Kenobi said I'm a new profit (misspelled on purpose...because it's all about untaxed profit).

The bird said that I need to bring the truly faithful to the nearest fast food outlet and proclaim the church J.C of the super-sized golden arches

Buck Ofama| 10.15.11 @ 1:42PM

I am not personally threatened by the idea of a Mormon president. I think that the preacher's accusation of Moronism being a cult religion was a very bad move. However, the cult moniker is correct, insofar as it agrees with this subjective definition: "A religious cult is a group gathered around someone's personal interpretation of the word of God."

People who agree that Mormonism is a cult religion also would agree that the origin of Mormonism was likely *not* a supernatural figure which briefly reached into our physical realm and laid some golden tablets on the poor Vermont farmer, Joseph Smith, who subsequently cooked up his own customized man-inspired version of the "scripture".

Nor did the book of Mormon originate from the generally accepted Judeo-Christian scripture. Smith cooked it up based on his specious claim of a an angelic message about some ancient golden plates inscribed in "reformed Egyptian" symbols. Of course, no one else was allowed to see the mystical plates. Smith later claimed to have interpreted the plates by looking through a mystical viewing glass called a "seer stone". This was the basis for the book of Mormon. Perhaps Joe could was the forerunner of Indiana Jones.

Maybe you don't read the bible, maybe you don't believe any of it, and maybe you don't even like it at all. But, for the moment, let's temporarily suspend any disbelief that the Christian bible is the inspired word of God.

The problem that bible students have with old Joe's seer stoned prose is that he contradicts the words of Apostle Peter:

Peter 1:21 King James Version (KJV)
"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

In other words, according to Peter, the biblical scripture was not invented by man alone; it was directed by God through holy men.

OK, this too sounds like Joe again. However, students of bible history, prophecy and typology will vehemently disagree. They will cite numerous topical threads running through the old testament, many of which found their fulfillment in Jesus of Nazareth, and of course, many threads which have yet to be fulfilled.

Believe what you want. I don't care either way.

Does Smith's claimed solitary vision of the mysterious and unseen golden tablets with the supposed Egyptian word of God contradict Peter's admonition? Maybe it does, and maybe it's irrelevant to the office of president.

More importanly, would you prefer to sit out the 2012 election, and risk a continuation of the conniving "president" who;
- doesn't know jack sh|t about business or job creation
- is likely not even a naturally-born US citizen
- is committed to redistributing YOUR personal wealth
- believes that it is not the effort that matters but the equality of outcome
- spent many years under the tutelage of the America-condemning vitriolic religious c0cksucker "reverend" Wright?

What's the big deal about a Mormon in the white house?

Rob N| 10.15.11 @ 5:40PM

Being a mormon is not R's biggest problem; it's his socialist policies and his spineless governance. He is Mister Status Quo, through and through. Just watch how he will simperingly cave to the Beltway press if he is lucky to get the nomination.

But some voters do care about a politicians faith or whether he has truly sincere convictions. If a mormon, muslim, or christian is able to persuade the electorate that they he or she ought to govern

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 12:24AM

Let me say that most Christians I know WILL vote for Romney IF he becomes the nominee. We don't prefer him, but agree with YOU.
Pretty good post!
Just don't doubt what you already know.. that The Word of God is true, 100%!

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 12:28AM

That was to Buck Ofama, but to Rob N, agreed as well.
It's just that, and sadly, the Republican Establishment acts like it's KING, and wants to anoint him. And many, many of us are sooo aggravated at that, and wish we could stop it.
Can we?
Yes, if we vote for someone else for the nominee, and not listen to them!

Buck Ofama| 10.16.11 @ 3:48AM

>Just don't doubt what you already know.. that The Word of God is true, 100%!

Which word of god is that? Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Mormon, or Realm of the Sacred Goat?

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 12:51PM

You just said it yourself, above, didn't you?
The Bible.
There is only one Word of God, Jesus Christ, and His Words are written in the Bible.
Do you agree? I thought you did!

Buck Ofama| 10.17.11 @ 2:15AM

Why are you so concerned whether I agree or not?
And no, I didn't say it myself, above. Read again, especially the part where I merely quoted Peter. That neither constitutes affirmation or dissent. What I believe is not your concern, so shut the fvck up already.

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 7:39PM

Forgive me for trying to converse with a piece of crap.

Dan| 10.18.11 @ 4:47PM

You must be talking to yourself again, Bigot Margie.

Richard| 10.15.11 @ 1:54PM

I am a left wing democrat Morman and this article stinks of the same bias that it claims I have.

Arlene| 10.15.11 @ 2:57PM

Harry Reid is a Mormon.

Mike Hawk| 10.15.11 @ 4:37PM

Religous bigotry is on parade on most of these comments. A pox on you who are.

Rob N| 10.15.11 @ 5:42PM

Spoken like a true establishment operative. Your attempts to chill public discourse on an importamt issue are not going unnoticed.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 12:20AM

Not to mention that Christians are protected from "poxes".
LOL!

Richard Baker| 10.15.11 @ 7:34PM

Ya'll must remember that Margie is God's Arbiter on Earth. She can't stand anyone who disagrees with her on the Bible, religion, or anything theological. Her dislike of Catholics, Mormons, and other denominations reminds me of the Klan and their pet dislikes.

Margie| 10.15.11 @ 11:34PM

Oh looky thar, it's the old punk, Richard Baker~ another one who absolutely despises the Word of God.

Too bad, old man.
I hope you repent before it's too late.
Don't wait until the last minute, as there is NO two-minute warning:

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second Death." Rev. 21:8.

Dan| 10.16.11 @ 8:34AM

More of the famous Christian spirit from Bigot Margie. Punk Liar.

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 7:41PM

Are the same Paul-bot scum who posted this to Jeffrey Lord a couple days ago?

Dan| 10.12.11 @ 2:33PM

Jeffrey your article proves zilch about Dr Paul. He is still correct on their nuclear capabilities. Go celebrate with your boyfriend and have him finger you some more wake up tomorrow and realize you are so very wrong.

Dan| 10.17.11 @ 7:51PM

Mullah,
Not me.
A different Dan. But you have the same manners.

Margie| 10.18.11 @ 1:40PM

Manners? That's really rich!
Your name calling and blatant bearing of false witness, hounding and false accusing is despicable.

You have no fear of God in you, Papist PUNK.
And you will not go unpunished:

"A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who utters lies will not escape." Prov. 19:5.

Jesus is LORD.
Repent, liar!

Dan| 10.18.11 @ 4:48PM

Mullah Margie,
That is not name calling, it just describes you, and there is no question you are a bigot. Nobody on this site, except for a few loons like you, approve or like you.

Margie| 10.18.11 @ 5:57PM

You're a Bigot against the Word of God, Troll.
Repent and believe the gospel. Mk. 1:1.
Papists are liars, and you fit the bill.
The Pope is a fraud, and he can't save you from where you are going, which is Hell, unless you repent.

""He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all. Our forefathers threw off the yoke of Popery in religion; for you is reserved the honor of leveling the popery of politics. They opened the Bible to all, and maintained the capacity of every man to judge for himself in religion."
- Samuel Adams, Speech at the State House, Philadelphia, August 1, 1776

The Truth is hate only to those who hate the Truth.
Repent, liar.

POST American| 10.15.11 @ 10:24PM

"Understand, the Vatican has been
entirely infiltrated by Freemasonry
since the 50s----"
-MALACHI MARTIN
(Catholic Historian/ Scholar)

-------------SO,
as we witness the deadly sinister hand of
TAX FREE, ultra rich Masonic foundations
and NGOs ------------AND the collapse,
suppression and disappearance of anything
might be called authentic, scriptural, God
fearing Chrtistianity--------------------
AND the roll out of TREASON, world 'govern-ANTS'
----and the most hideous, most filthy
EUGENICS and extermination agendas to
be found in history 'on the go' --

WHO'S going to be the first to call out and
expose the situation?

-------------------WHO?------------------

YOU ---------------------------that's WHO...

Buck Ofama| 10.16.11 @ 3:50AM

blah, blah, blah, bl..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Richard Baker| 10.16.11 @ 6:01AM

Ah yes, it's Margie again. Showing her devotion to God and Jesus with her insults to those who disagree or have any other view of the Bible or anything theological. Aren't you so proud? By the way, do you belong to the Church of What's Happening Now? I wonder cause it sho' ain't Christianity.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 12:49PM

I'm sorry old man, but it was YOU that began throwing LIES and insults at me, you flaming hypocrite.

Are you proud of yourself, you imbecile?

And by the way, hypocrite: Exactly which parts of the Scripture is it that you disagree with?

Are you actually in agreement with those who say that Mormonism isn't a Cult?

So, tell us, haughty one: which of the Scriptures that I post do you disagree with?

Dan| 10.16.11 @ 3:11PM

Bigot Margie
Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus?
Do you believe Jesus is God?

Yes or no.

Dan| 10.17.11 @ 6:24PM

Bigot Margie
Is this the reason why you, Margie, don't believe in the divinity of Jesus, that Jesus is God, because this would upset your interpretation that Mary is not the mother of God?

If Mary is the mother of Jesus, and Jesus is God, then it follows that Mary is the mother of God.

Of course the Catholics put together the Bible, you moron, there were no Protestants until Martin Luther. The term Christian was the same as Catholic until Luther and the Protestant Reformation,.

PS: I will keep asking you Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus? Yes or No.

Dan| 10.17.11 @ 7:57PM

Your'e up Bigot Margie, answer the question.

Margie| 10.18.11 @ 1:41PM

You're down, Clint/aka Dan.

Dan| 10.18.11 @ 4:49PM

Not Clint, Mullah. It is D A N. got it, Bigot.

Rich D| 10.19.11 @ 3:35PM

Dan: "There were no Protestants until Martin Luther."

Are you trying to mislead? - that term is overloaded. Paul was protesting false Gospel from the beginning. There were and always will be errors in the church's proclamations, but we protest and get them corrected. There was no "Catholic" church then, either, and the Scriptures were only affirmed by the council. See F. F. Bruce, "The Canon of Scripture". We have 13,000 manuscripts and fragments, and there are disagreements. Which Joshua do you read, and why?

Clint| 10.16.11 @ 5:02PM

You Are American Spectator's Serial chronic Fixated Lapsed Catholic Turned Fulltime Bigot.

Your Church Of Margie Opposes The Practices Of Practicing Protestant Sects, Jews, Muslims , Catholiocs With A Special Vengeance And Now Mormons.

Get Some Therapy.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 5:21PM

You're a filthy, filthy slob.
Repent.

Clint| 10.16.11 @ 5:24PM

Margie Shares The Love Of The Church Of Margie.

You Are A Maniac Bigot .

Get Some Therapy.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 5:35PM

To a Cultist and blatant filthy liar, Bible believing Christians are maniacs and bigots.

In truth, it is the filthy liars that are going to Hell:

"Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy."
"Behold, I am coming soon, bringing My recompense, to repay every one for what he has done.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the Tree of Life and that they may enter the City by the Gates.
Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and every one who loves and practices falsehood." Rev. 22:11-15.

Repent, filthy liar!

Clint| 10.16.11 @ 6:44PM

There It Is.
The Lapsed Catholic Bigot, Margie Calls My Catholicism A Cult.

You Are A Maniac Bigot.

Get Some Therapy.

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 12:41AM

It IS a cult, and it harbors scum like you.

Buck Ofama| 10.17.11 @ 2:16AM

PRIDE GOETH BEFORE A FALL... Miss Maringalized.

Buck Ofama| 10.17.11 @ 2:16AM

PRIDE GOETH BEFORE A FALL... Miss Maringalized.

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 7:43PM

I'm not too proud to admit that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Way to God.
It takes being humble to do that.
Are YOU too proud for Jesus, punk?

Rich D| 10.16.11 @ 4:59PM

Margie, I didn't that dominusveritas was attacking you. And he is right - you are too shrill in your responses to have any positive effect.

Romney is unacceptable for his social and economic positions, not his faith.

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 5:09PM

I don't care what you think. Where do YOU stand as to the Truth?

And apparently, idiot, you didn't read my posts. I made a CLEAR distinction between Romney, his cult beliefs, and my voting for him if he becomes the nominee.

And dominu-whatever DID begin with accusing me of being "unloving" because I engaged Bruce, above.

Seems to me you think you're hot stuff and "cool" for jumping on the bandwagon.

Get serious, fool.

Rich D| 10.16.11 @ 7:09PM

Ah, you know where I stand - I've demonstrated it. So far, I haven't disagreed with what you say, but only the way that you say it.

The only instance of the word "unloving" (your quotes) is in your current post. What did I miss?

Dominusveritas commented on your method, not your content, and also said that you confused him by responding negatively but in apparent agreement when he posted Scripture passages to REFUTE Bruce. I think that you confused an ally with an enemy. The hot stuff and cool is coming from within you, not me. This is not a bandwagon, and I can agree with whom I please, as can you and everyone else. I have been silent, hoping that you would town your rhetoric, but this time you abused a ally. If I am to become your enemy here because of criticizing your methods, then so be it.

And, if you don't really care what others think, then why are you posting here? We are to speak the truth in love.

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 12:43AM

Spare me your crap.
I will not remain silent.
Buzz off, punk.

Buck Ofama| 10.17.11 @ 2:17AM

You're buzzing off your junk?
That vibrator is getting noisy.

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 12:54AM

"The only instance of the word "unloving" (your quotes) is in your current post. What did I miss?"

So, you cannot read?

He said this:

"I'm telling you that hateful attacks won't succeed in doing anything other than turning Bruce and his kind from ever opening his ears to hear."

So.. oh self righteous one, exactly how did I do such a thing as this?
So, you find that confronting Bruce and asking him questions in order that his eyes may be opened, presenting the Scriptures to him that he might see, is attacking?

Then you are NO Christian! It is truly sad when Christians (so-called) jump on the bandwagon to attack another Christian for ACTUALLY presenting the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

I will NOT keep silent, no matter your Pharisee type condemning.
I'm with Jesus. He called types like you a BROOD OF VIPERS.
Guess He was wrong, too, eh?

dominusveritas| 10.17.11 @ 1:26PM

Margie,

I feel I must apologize for somehow misleading you with regards to my intentions. Sometimes even the written word can be misconstrued, and apparently I wasn't clear enough. As Christians we are called to live in faith and hope, free to go forth and sin no more (though our fallen humanity constantly assails our efforts and makes us fall short of living as Christ did).
What I was addressing, and what I've always been addressing, is the manner in which you seek to speak the Gospel of Truth. We are called to live faithful lives and set the example as Christ-like believers, that others may know the Truth. Your behavior in this forum falls very short of Christ-like. You need to differentiate between speaking the Gospel in love and speaking the Law. Even your delivery of the Law is severely lacking. What I am calling you to do, as one Christian to another, is to repent of your harsh language and show others in this forum what it truly is to be a forgiven child of God. Lest you again feel the need to call me a hypocrite, see how your words read:
“Buzz off, troll.”
“I know, scumbag. So, buzz off.”
“Slob. Repent, filthy liar.”
“It IS a cult, and it harbors scum like you.”
“Buzz off, punk.”
This is a sample of the harsh language to which I’ve been referring. You are right, there is a Brood of Vipers within the visible churches who seek to distract the faithful and lead them astray. There are those who only seek to follow the Law, that they might glorify themselves in front of humanity with all their piety, those Pharisees among us who do not care for the freedom of Faith, only the outward signs of the Church. I, and I believe Rich as well, do not number against them. We are merely pointing out in Christian love that you are not displaying the love YOU are called to display. Speak the Gospel, but leave the harsh language behind.

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 7:46PM

"You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to Hell?
Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechari'ah the son of Barachi'ah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.
Truly, I say to you, all this will come upon this generation." Mt. 23:33-36.

Whose side are you on?

dominusveritas| 10.18.11 @ 12:17AM

I live daily as a repentant son of God, baptized into Christ's death and resurrection in the name if the Triune God. That is whose side I am called to be on.

Margie| 10.18.11 @ 1:42PM

Oh, really?
Then you wouldn't be accusing me of bashing, hatred or whatever else you want to call it for witnessing to the Mormons, hypocrite.

Orion| 10.20.11 @ 1:58PM

Margie,
Do you actually believe that what you are doing is "witnessing to the Mormons?" If so, you really need to understand that the way you respond to everyone on this post, including Mormons, make people want to distrust and run from anything you associate yourself with. Thus, as you have associated yourself with Christianity, your words push people away from belief in Christ. You are damaging the Word of God by posting passages of the Word along with hate filled comments of your own such as: "Screw you, Ryan," "Screw you, Richard," "buzz off punk," "buzz off, punk" etc.

Earlier you ask: "So, you find that confronting Bruce and asking him questions in order that his eyes may be opened, presenting the Scriptures to him that he might see, is attacking?"

If that was all you were doing, then no, it would not be attacking. But that is not all you are doing. You are ALSO attacking anyone and everyone who says anything contrary to you or your beliefs.

Read through the comments you have posted above again. I do not know what is in your heart, but your words - not the words you have quoted from Scripture - but your own words simply reek of hate and malice.

Orion| 10.20.11 @ 1:33PM

dominusveritas,
Excellent reply. Unfortunately, as I have been reading through the comments I have come to the conclusion that Margie simply will not accept that the vehemence of her posts radiates with hatred, not love. I found it truly bizarre how she will quote several passages of scripture with the apparent intention of sharing the message of Christ, then follow it up with a personal attack against the commenter - which you listed several examples of. A particularly sad example you missed: "Screw you, Ryan."
I don't know who she is but she is obviously doing nothing for the reputation of Christians, or of Christ Himself, for that matter.
It has become obvious that responding to her in any manner, no matter how well reasoned, and even if in total agreement with her only generates the same hate filled response followed by scripture (as I have no doubt this one will). It is unfortunate, if she really is a believer, that she cannot see how much harm she is doing to Christ's name, who she claims to follow.

Anyway, I appreciated your comment above, well said.

Rich D| 10.19.11 @ 1:17PM

They were criticizing your methods, not content, and not your personally. You prove them right by your responses. I can't see any good that you are doing. Why so angry at everybody? Oh, never mind - it doesn't really matter.

Margie| 10.18.11 @ 6:04PM

"And, if you don't really care what others think, then why are you posting here?"

Spare me, dude.

"
"The Opinion of others I very little regard, & have a thorough Contempt for all men, be their Names Characters & Stations what they may, who appear to be the irreclaimable Enemies of Religion & Liberty."
~Samuel Adams.

Jesus Christ is LORD, not YOU, not the POPE, not ANYONE ELSE.

Rich D| 10.16.11 @ 8:51PM

Correction: I didn't SEE that...

Sorry.

Al Adab| 10.16.11 @ 6:00PM

Fascinating. In answer to an article called The Lefts Mormon Problem we spend three days demonstrating that we of the Right have a Mormon Problem. Great help to the cause.

Dan| 10.16.11 @ 10:23PM

Al Adab
It should not come as a surprise that a few here have a "Mormon problem." I've been here only recently and I see a daily tirade of anti-Catholic bigotry and hate from Margie and a few others like her. Why would anti Mormon bigotry be a surprise if this site tolerates daily anti Catholic bigotry.? I've seen only a few criticize Margie and her little band of bigots. What's worse there's one or two fools who agree with her and encourage her.
But these few bigots aren't conservatives. They are nutty "rightwingers" who are full of hate just like nutty "leftwingers" who are not true liberals. True liberals and true conservatives are tolerant of others' views and religions.
I disagree with you about if this helps or hurts the cause of conservatives. I don't want these bigoted whackos associated with conservatives. They give us a bad name.

Al Adab| 10.16.11 @ 11:09PM

The diatribes we experienced here hurt the cause immeasurable. The press and the public do not distinguish between "bigot" and Conservatives. The Left embrases their loons (look at Reid and OWS) while Conservatives shun (rightly) theirs. Conservatives are a minority of a minority (the GOP) and only by being clear, rational and energetic can we prevail. Anything that harms the Cause, the Movement, does so to the detriment of Liberty and of this nations' future.

I'm glad you have joined us here and I look forward to conversing with you again.

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 12:42AM

Sorry but speaking the truth isn't hate.
Get right with God.
And Al Adab, sad you kiss up to a hateful Troll.

Ryan| 10.17.11 @ 12:32PM

Can the truth be spoken with hate, however? Wasn't this what Paul addressed in I Cor 13?

" 1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing."

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 7:47PM

Screw you, Ryan.

Dan| 10.17.11 @ 6:26PM

You don't speak the truth. You speak hate and bigotry. Nobody agrees with you.

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 7:48PM

Are you the same filthy punk that said this to Jeffrey Lord in another thread? The filthy Paul-bot?

Dan| 10.12.11 @ 2:33PM

Jeffrey your article proves zilch about Dr Paul. He is still correct on their nuclear capabilities. Go celebrate with your boyfriend and have him finger you some more wake up tomorrow and realize you are so very wrong.

Dan| 10.17.11 @ 7:53PM

Hey Moron Margie,, can't your read? I told you no. Big surprise to you, Dan is a common name.

Dan| 10.17.11 @ 7:54PM

P.S Not Paul supporter.

Margie| 10.18.11 @ 1:45PM

You're phony Troll who cares nothing for God's Truth.
You're a lying Papist.
JESUS CHRIST IS LORD, not the Pope.
Repent, liar.

"A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who utters lies will not escape." Prov. 19:5.

You're not getting away with what you're doing.

Dan| 10.18.11 @ 4:50PM

Mullah,
Again with the phony arguments. The Pope is not Lord.
But you keep dodging the question, do you believe in the divinity of Jesus? Come on Bigot, tell the truth, yes or no.

Margie| 10.18.11 @ 6:07PM

You keep repeating yourself.
You're blind, pitiable, poor and naked, like the Scripture says you are, and you sound just like Clint, the other lying Papist PUNK.

Get right with God, liar.
JESUS CHRIST is LORD. Not you, not your lying pals, not anyone, but Him.

Repent and believe the Gospel of God, before it is too late: Mk. 1:1.

Dan| 10.18.11 @ 6:21PM

It is easy to repeat when responding to you because you don't say anthing except liar/punk and cut and paste some excerpt that you don't understand.

Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus? Do you believe Jesus is God? Why are you afraid to answer yes or no. Answer yes or no .

POST American| 10.16.11 @ 11:41PM

"---It's comfort, not conscience,
that makes COWARDS of us all---"

In other words, basting your bennies
and worshipping your rectum will
lead to hell.

Your rectum ---leads to WRECKDOM.

'Oedipus Wreckdom' ---if you will...

----------------------GET IT?---------------------------

Richard Baker| 10.17.11 @ 6:18AM

Margie:
A wise man told me that it is better to be quiet and thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt. You obviously have never heard of this maxim. It shows.

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 7:48PM

Screw you, Richard.

Janeway| 10.17.11 @ 11:30AM

Margie, you appear to have a problem with everybody's church but yours. Personally, I do not care what you think, it doesn't matter and if you think your ranting will convince others, rant away because that awful "Mormon" is next President of the US and just think you will have at least 4-8 years of super ranting. I find it amazing that you really feel that going nutty over Mormons is so important to you. Why don't you go to your own church and be grateful that out of all the billions of people that have lived on the earth only you and you alone will go to heaven as a "true Christian" and God will reward you for hating everybody who dares to disagee with you. For your sake, I hope the Lord has a sense of humor.

Margie| 10.17.11 @ 7:49PM

Another one who can't read.
Hypocrite.

Craig| 10.17.11 @ 12:18PM

There are other reasons the Democrats dislike Mormonism. They preach self-reliance to their members. They don't give hand outs and they expect people to work. Also, they stand to protect the traditional family unit as the basis of our society. Dems see these as threats to their agenda.

Dan| 10.17.11 @ 7:52PM

Your'e up Mullah, answer.

Daniel Peterson| 10.17.11 @ 11:31PM

Slightly more than three hundred "creepy and weird" "political, spiritual, and social phonies" who, according to recent remarks from social conservative radio commentator Bryan Fischer, should not be granted First Amendment protections, write about their Mormon faith at

http://mormonscholarstestify.org/

http://mormonscholarstestify.o.....estimonies

Sometimes, reading some of the things that alleged conservatives say here on this thread and elsewhere, I'm ashamed to be a conservative myself.

ShashNahalin| 10.18.11 @ 8:24PM

RE: "even less ethnic diversity"
More Mormons now speak Spanish than English. There are a higher percent of Mormons in some South American and Pacific Island nations than in the USA.

antidote| 10.19.11 @ 10:14AM

Reading these comments confirms my observation, the repugnantcans are fractured, they have no hope of winning in '12. Can you say, "Four more years!"?

antidote| 10.19.11 @ 10:16AM

How can people who call themselves "right" be so very, very, wrong?

Elizabeth| 10.22.11 @ 12:21PM

Does the writer realise that Harry Reid is also a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

The American Spectator

Political Hay

The Left’s Mormon Problem

About the Author

Letter to the Editor View all comments (329) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Harry Hunter| 10.14.11 @ 6:37AM

Anthony| 10.14.11 @ 9:37AM

fitley| 10.14.11 @ 5:12PM

CalMark| 10.14.11 @ 7:18PM

Alan Brooks| 10.15.11 @ 12:42AM

mames| 10.15.11 @ 11:53PM

Buck Ofama| 10.16.11 @ 3:51AM

IX-XI| 10.16.11 @ 11:43AM

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mames| 10.16.11 @ 12:02AM

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LarryK| 10.14.11 @ 10:40AM

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Drudge Ette Obama| 10.14.11 @ 7:20AM

Jack von Bauer| 10.14.11 @ 7:46AM

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IX-XI| 10.16.11 @ 11:51AM

Margie| 10.16.11 @ 1:40PM

Robyn | 10.17.11 @ 8:03AM

Ryan| 10.17.11 @ 8:40AM

Dan| 10.17.11 @ 8:02PM

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Jack von Bauer| 10.14.11 @ 8:38AM

Bruce| 10.14.11 @ 1:44PM

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Al Adab| 10.14.11 @ 4:11PM

skeech| 10.15.11 @ 4:20PM

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