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The Pursuit of Knowledge
Riots of Passage
When rites of passage disappear from public life, civilization does as well, and one result is young men running amok.
The riots in British cities over the summer have been assimilated by our opinion-formers into the easy categories that govern their thinking. Leftwing writers have cited urban deprivation, poverty, and racism—in other words, factors for which the rioters cannot be blamed. Right-wing writers have pointed their fingers at multiculturalism, the welfare trap, and the breakdown of family life — again, factors for which the rioters cannot be blamed. The fact is, however, that those responsible for the riots were those who took part in them. Rioting is natural to human beings, and is a frequently observed effect of our inherent savagery. Young men are particularly prone to riot: and in the conditions of the hunter-gatherer it is to be assumed that, between sleeping, copulating, and eating, they didn’t do much else. Young men lapse into riot as soon as there issomething to be gained from doing so, and whenever there is nothing serious to be lost. What needs explaining is not the fact that they riot, but rather the far more extraordinary fact that on the whole they don’t. What is it, down the ages, that has contained the energies of our youth, and ensured that they respect the lives and property of others?
The answer is “civilization.” But that answer repeats the question. What exactly makes a civilization? What is it that lifts human beings out of their savage condition and endows them with the respect for order, the consideration for others, and the habits of obedience without which the claim of humanity for a special place on our planet is no better than the claim of rats, toads, or mosquitoes?
In the 19th and early 20th centuries, anthropologists had the chance to observe societies that had neither writing nor formal institutions of government, but which were nevertheless in possession of the precious thing that herds, packs, and riots lack, namely perpetuity. Those “primitive” societies existed from generation to generation, and each new generation absorbed the customs and acknowledged the obligations that were passed on by its parents, unconsciously preparing itself in turn to pass those benefits to its offspring. Although there were disputes and rivalries, and although violence would erupt from time to time, and sometimes exist in ritualized and repeated forms, the normal condition was one of peaceful association, in which each member of the tribe felt bound to every other in a web of obligations that could not be guiltlessly transgressed. The many “I’s” were subsumed in a single “we,” and what made this possible, more than any other factor, was the interest that the tribe took in the critical transitions on which its perpetuity depended. Each birth was acknowledged as an event in the life of the tribe, as well as an event in the life of the parents. The transition from childhood to adult responsibility was not, as now, a private accomplishment, to be achieved anyhow or not at all, but a public concern, to be given ceremonial recognition. In the ceremony of initiation obligations would be solemnly assumed and the interest of the tribe acknowledged as greater than the interests of any individual. Marriage was likewise a public rite, and when, at last, the individual was laid to rest among his ancestors, that passage too was marked out as the concern of everyone.
Rites of passage (as Arnold van Gennep named them a hundred years ago) still exist here and there in our world, notably in societies untouched by modern communications. But nobody can deny that they are disappearing from Europe in general, and from Britain in particular. When the right-wing commentators complain of the breakdown of family life, they don’t really mean that homes are now fungible and troubled. That has been the case from the beginning of civilization. I was raised in such a home. What the commentators mean, or ought to mean, is that the crucial institution on which children depend for their security, namely marriage, is disappearing. Out of wedlock births are now the norm in Europe, and the only people who urgently seek to get married are homosexuals, anxious for a recognition that is rapidly losing its real significance. The absence of this crucial rite of passage means that birth, too, is a private matter, no longer an event in the life of a community but a private passion of the mother, who is helped through her ordeal (should she choose to go through with it) by the same welfare system that will take charge of the child.
But perhaps the most important loss is that of the rite of passage out of childhood. Coming of age was a formal welcome offered by the community. In response to this welcome the adolescent assumed the benefits and burdens of membership: maturity ceased to be a biological phenomenon and was recreated as a social gift. In complex societies like ours this transformation was not marked by a single ceremony, although here and there the old ceremonies existed. It was marked by a multitude of small-scale undertakings: local offers of membership and conferrals of responsibility that were looked on with pride by the participants and by those in charge.
Teams, scout troops, schools, and clubs all offered their local rites of passage; Bar-Mitzvah, Confirmation, and first Communion were religious icons embossed on the same ready currency. In a hundred ways adults maintained the boundary between childhood and maturity, and offered maturity on terms — terms that involved the whole community, and which could be accepted only by conceding the right of the community to obedience in the things that mattered most to it.
I GUESS WHAT I AM SAYING HERE is plain common sense. If so, however, why should we be surprised if our societies lose the precious gift of perpetuity, when the great transitions in which membership can be publicly acknowledged no longer exist? Children stumble into adulthood today, unprepared and unendorsed. Little or nothing protects them from the spectacle of adult disorder. The traditional goals, such as marriage and family, are no longer held out as stages on life’s way. And the proliferation of sexual imagery and temptation destroys both the innocence of childhood and the responsibility of adult life, so that the boundary between the two is erased. In a very real sense children are left to fend for themselves, to forge out of the debris that they witness the only kind of membership that can be rescued from it, which is that of the gang.
The essence of the gang is that it lives in antagonistic relation to its surroundings. The world around the gang belongs to others, to those who have no claim to membership and whose property and lifestyle mark them out as alien. Hence the gang emerges into a world already closed to it, and it must do something to make its presence known. Various avenues suggest themselves. One is to vandalize the public space and leave a rival mark on it. This is the real meaning of graffiti, which are the signatures of gangs, designed both to deface the public space and to privatize its meaning.
Other self-made rites of passage are available. The violent confrontation with other gangs is one of them, and in British cities this form of initiation is quite common, leading in recent years to many deaths through knife attacks. Riot too can be a rite of passage — a way of “joining in” that offers both membership and liberation, and which fulfils the longing for vengeance against a world that has hitherto offered nothing but the sign of others’ ownership. It does not normally escalate to the extent that we have witnessed in Britain this last summer. But riot is there in the background of adolescent life, as everyone knows who lives close to one of our large inner city schools.
It is not only in Britain that these effects are witnessed. Every public space in Germany has been defaced by graffiti, and little or nothing is done to punish those responsible—after all, punishment belongs to the authoritarian way of life that the Germans are trying so hard to forget. At the same time, this freedom to deface does not satisfy the hunger of young Germans for membership or their anger against a world that has failed to provide it. Every Friday night for the past four years automobiles have been set alight in Berlin, and an article in Die Welt am Sonntag recently compared the situation in the German capital with that in Tottenham, where the British riots began. Nor is the German obsession with neo-Nazism entirely absurd. Deprive young people of a rite of passage into the social order and they will look for a rite of passage out of it. That, in my view, is the true explanation of the Norwegian mass murderer Breivik, a man whose father had rejected him, who found no society that would include him, and who took his revenge on young people who seemed to be enjoying the very membership that he lacked.
It is one thing to acknowledge the need for rites of passage, another to propose a way of rediscovering them. So far the efforts of politicians in Europe and America have been negative. The effect of current policies has been to subsidize out-of-wedlock births, to remake marriage as a contract of cohabitation, and to drive religion, which is the true guardian of rites of passage, from the public sphere. Those policies have been embarked on with the best of intentions, but with a remarkable indifference to what we know of human nature. The way back to perpetuity will be long and painful, but it is surely evident that the first step must be to stop subsidizing the alternative.
About the Author
Roger Scruton is a visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. His latest book, How to Think Seriously About the Planet: The Case for an Environmental Conservatism, has just been published by Oxford University Press.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (100) | Leave a comment
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Mike Hawk| 10.11.11 @ 8:28AM
You probably could not find any of the rioters who were active Boy Scouts. Certainly none who earned the rank of Eagle.
Anna K. from Emory U.| 10.11.11 @ 9:12AM
No, Edward White, the readers of this rag do not know who you mean.
American Spectator readers are just the kind who would approve whole-heartedly the "obsessive, hard-guy" culture you cite.
When you read their comments, it's plain to see that they ARE the obsessive, hard-guy culture you so loathe.
Even the women who express themselves on this Third Reich rag are shrill and as hard as nails in their reactionery opinions.
Beautiful weather here in Atlanta, and so beautiful here on Emory's campus. All these marble buildings! You'd think that Emory had founded the Georgia marble industry.
A lovely day to be alive! Come visit our beautiful campus. You'll appreciate its architectural and natural beauty.
Or would you?
Bob Grant| 10.11.11 @ 9:54AM
Anna, Edward:
What do your little rants have to do with Rights of passage?
^00^| 10.11.11 @ 10:08AM
"Rights" of passage? Rights?
I assume you read with your lips moving when reading silently.
Bob Grant| 10.11.11 @ 11:55AM
You got me. Most people would have moved on to comment on the subject matter but...
Occam's Tool| 10.13.11 @ 1:36PM
Tradition carries an enormous punch; changes should be carefully made.
Petronius| 10.11.11 @ 9:51AM
Wrong Ed
Those muscleheads you abhor are a reaction to PC diktat of liberal academia that drove them out of school and keeps them out of the job market. Why should they have to tolerate weenies? The only opportunity open to them is cage fighting because all cultural institutions have been feminized. They can't even be Men in the Marines anymore. And when the day comes that there are none of them around to stave off a real invasion by all who covet the wealth of this nation, who will fight to save your pathetic little hide? Not that I'm one of them. But the world is hostile and you are naive in your desire that it be painless.
Of your theatrical aspirations, weigh them well. I tried it and found the stage to be a place where people want to insulate themselves from real life. The only proper perspective is that of the late Paul Scofield. Acting was his life Work.
PolishKnight| 10.11.11 @ 2:15PM
With nukes, the threat of a large armed invasion is unlikely. There will no Islamic or Chinese hordes to invade or take over unless they fly into JFK or LAX.
The "invasion" threat is largely a cultural one: young immigrants who literally walk, or fly, across the border (see my point about LAX above.) Rather than a formal attack, they can take neighborhoods. Try wandering into east Los Angeles at night. Or North Paris.
The single most heroic, "warrior" type thing a man can do in a culture is to be a breadwinner for a two parent family. However, even most conservatives have happily undermined that role.
Stan Redmond| 10.11.11 @ 2:33PM
If you study hard and grow your own business you'll be happy there are so many fools available to hire that clean toilets and sweep floors.
Petronius| 10.11.11 @ 9:24AM
There for read on: especially Cold Iron and The Gods of the Copybook Headings. Are there other words to reflect this essay any better?
irish19| 10.11.11 @ 10:51PM
I've read the latter (love that Kipling), but am unfamiliar with the former. Another Kipling?
Petronius| 10.12.11 @ 8:43AM
Aye. In very truth.
Sarah D.| 10.11.11 @ 9:42AM
"When rites of passage disappear from public life"
What rites of passage do you mean, Mr. Scruton? Are you referring to the male rites of passage that invovle humiliation as the dominant feature?
Think about it. If you are a male that does not fit the mold, the rites of passage will be tortuous.
I say we're better off without them. My son will not experience them. My husband and I will make sure he grows up with a sense of respect and civility.
All this rites of passage talk is mere piffle. And, Mr. Scruton, you had nothing worth reading to say about it.
It seems this blog gets worse with every passing month.
Sheila| 10.11.11 @ 9:51AM
I pity your son when he encounters the real world and true manliness after a childhood spent enduring your sensitivity training.
Sarah D.| 10.11.11 @ 10:11AM
And I pity your son if you have one. I'd rather be around sensitive people anyday than hateful brutes, and I suspect you are one yourself.
Con Chef (NB) | 10.11.11 @ 11:08AM
And when your son gets his ass kicked on the playground by the school bully, I'm sure you'll sue everyone over 3 inches tall, right?
You regressives are such a hoot!
456| 10.11.11 @ 11:41AM
Typical AmSpec remark.
Drunken Sailor| 10.11.11 @ 11:49AM
Typical snottly liberal reply. Aren't you late for a protest?
Lev Tolstoy| 10.11.11 @ 11:43AM
A punch in the nose lasts a few minutes. Castration lasts a lifetime.
JR | 10.11.11 @ 3:19PM
Why is it Sarah that if your not the sensitive type your automatically a hateful brute? I'm a bodybuilder, personal trainer, college student and father of two daughters. I have no problem being tough and strong while raising two little girls who do at times require sensitivity. A man can be a protector without being a thug.
irish19| 10.11.11 @ 10:53PM
Well said, JR. All things in their place.
PAUL| 10.11.11 @ 7:00AM
Rioters and looters in the UK and the USA know they have nothing to fear from the authorities, hence more of the behavior. With looters you have the army shoot on sight, and rioters are beaten senseless with night sticks.
Shamus| 10.11.11 @ 7:13AM
Slackerfest.
KennesawJack| 10.11.11 @ 8:22AM
On a cautious (very cautious) note; I have been teaching Confirmation in our Church for many, many years. While the number of congregants hasn't grown significantly over those years, the number of Confirmands in my classes has. Interestingly, I've never seen many of those youngsters in Church before Confirmation and, for the most part, see few of them after they are Confirmed. The point, however, is this; their parents must be aware, on some level, of the need to re-instill this rite of passage into our culture and that can only be movement in the right direction. I may be whistling past the graveyard, but I sense a growing unease in our society with just how debased our culture has become and perhaps people are beginning to take steps, however small, to resist. We'll see.
vb| 10.11.11 @ 8:15AM
When I started elementary school, I had to take a public bus home everday. A fourth-grade boy who lived down the street was given the job of making sure I got home OK. It was a very small rite of passage for him, but then the world of the fifties was full of such rites. He turned out a fine man.
Uzzi| 10.11.11 @ 9:19AM
"The world of the fifties" was full of stupid, masculine rites that are as dead as the dinosaurs.
When the world becomes more feminized, life will be better for all.
You can take conventional masculinity and shove it down the nearest toilet hole. And while you're at it, inhale deeply, Mr. VD--I mean vb.
Sheila| 10.11.11 @ 9:55AM
Where have you been for the past fifty years? The world has been feminized past all recognition, which is why marriage, true innocent childhood, and a sense of nation are all dead. We are all living in that toilet hole of a culture people like you created, Uzzi. Your trite comment and immature insults ("dead as the dinosaurs," "stupid, masculine rites," "Mr. VD") expose the level of your thinking, which doesn't rise above the level of your discourse. To put it in terms you would perhaps understand, "Epic fail."
Uzzi| 10.11.11 @ 10:34AM
I did not create it because I am not a hard, tough guy. I'm a sensitive guy.
You missed Ed White's point. I suggest you reread him--one of the few intelligent posters on this "Third Reich rag," as someone above called Am Spec. I had to laugh.
Tim the Enchanter| 10.11.11 @ 11:39AM
Uzzi- project much?
Roy| 10.11.11 @ 12:50PM
Yeah, you're a real sensitive, polite guy there, "Uzzi". Sort of in the "A person of diversity and tolerance keyed my car" type of way.
Drunken Sailor| 10.11.11 @ 10:40AM
Don't you have a protest to attend?
Mike| 10.11.11 @ 1:27PM
Uzzi,
I am sad for you. A sensitive guy? When the world becomes more feminized life will be better for those evil people who would force you into slavery.
Those with conventional masculinity wll save your sorry ass as they have many times in the past. Without conventional masculinity German would still be the official language in occupied France.
It never ceases to amazes me that folks like yourself who pine for a kinder, gentler world have no clue what a harsh and brutal place it can be.
Mike Johnston
SFC USA (RET)
irish19| 10.11.11 @ 10:56PM
"Those with conventional masculinity wll save your sorry ass as they have many times in the past."
I'm not sure I'd bet on that this time around.
SGT Baker (Native Coloradean)| 10.12.11 @ 6:53AM
At times it does seem a thankless task to "save their ass" anymore; however, they are Americans in name....
Mike Hawk| 10.11.11 @ 9:19AM
Current decline was given a jump start when the voting age was reduced to 18. It used to be you needed some life experience in the real world to mature you to be an informed voter. Now you can be be young, stupid and immature and vote. All part of Obama's base.
PolishKnight| 10.11.11 @ 9:39AM
This was justified because the 18 year old were being drafted and ordered to use lethal weapons. Indeed, Mike, it's a useful point to bring up considering that the anti-war protestors of the 60's helped to push forward a marxist, hippie agenda in the USA. How can a conservative claim to support an agenda of private property while simultaneously supporting enslaving young men for a foreign policy agenda? By the same token, I get a huge kick when I hear leftists gripe that "their" tax money is being "wasted" on foreign wars. (They love it when MY tax money is being wasted on their welfare mothers and political cronies.)
Perhaps it was a mistake of the draft board to send men into combat at the age of 18 or have them register but that was the age that government officials decided someone was sufficiently able to handle the responsibility of using a weapon and to follow, or not follow, orders of their superior officer.
I think maybe the selective service age and draft should be at the age of 30.
John Navratil| 10.11.11 @ 12:49PM
Polish Knight,
The mantra was, I'm old enough to fight for this country, but I'm not old enough to vote.
Funny how now they're old enough to vote, but not old enough to drink. Those older voters fixed that.
You are, I'm sure, aware that in an all-volunteer military there can be no enslavement. There is no draft and the last time selective service registration was required was over thirty years ago.
Mike| 10.11.11 @ 1:30PM
John
A minor point but Selective Service registration is still required by law. There is no draft in effect and has not been since sometime in the 1970's.
Mike Johnston
SFC USA (RET)
PolishKnight| 10.11.11 @ 2:04PM
FYI, I never said that there was an active draft. I was referring to the draft in context to when the amendment was passed.
Hmmm, funny thing: I'm sure most 18 year olds would trade their right to vote for a right to drink. :-) Heck, I'm sure most 21+ year olds would prefer the latter right! :-)
Regarding the selective service and it being in effect or not: don't sweep it under the rug. If the selective service's commitment wasn't significant, there wouldn't be such massive legal sanctions against young men who didn't register (including lawful permanent residents.)
John Navratil| 10.11.11 @ 2:14PM
Mike, Polish Knight,
Thanks for the clarification. I registered in the 70's (as was required) and read that it is required for federal program such as student loans. That comes as a big surprise to me. I've put a call in to my senior college student who has taken out his last student loan. If he had to register, it slipped past me (of course more and more slips past me as time goes by).
PolishKnight| 10.11.11 @ 2:19PM
Denial of student loan privileges is just one penalty and a minor one at that:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/.....aftreg.htm
"Men who do not register could be prosecuted and, if convicted, fined up to $250,000 and/or serve up to five years in prison."
John Navratil| 10.11.11 @ 2:56PM
PolishKnight,
Correct, and as I read there have been 19 prosecutions of 20 indictments. It seems it was inciting non-compliance. A topsy-turvy world!
Mike Hawk| 10.11.11 @ 3:50PM
Those who served may have earned the privilege to vote. The protesters and rioters did not. Your premise is false to start with..
Sheila| 10.11.11 @ 9:57AM
The Founders limited the franchise to White, male property owners over the age of 21. Oh dear, oh dear, how racist and sexist! What's a good AmSpec faux-conservative to do?
PolishKnight| 10.11.11 @ 10:40AM
How true is that? I didn't see anything about that in the US Constitution. Perhaps you're referring to state laws that had such voting restrictions. Certainly, the founding fathers probably wrote those restrictions but it's likely that state legislators who weren't constitutional convention attendees probably had more influence.
Roy| 10.11.11 @ 12:52PM
And I imagine even those state laws inherited them from prior colonial laws.
John Navratil| 10.11.11 @ 12:52PM
Sheila,
Lament the loss of their wisdom, obviously! Seriously, what is your point?
Stan Redmond| 10.11.11 @ 2:38PM
Read the constitution. There is no right to vote defined in the document.
CalMark| 10.11.11 @ 9:47AM
"Right-wing writers have pointed their fingers at multiculturalism, the welfare trap, and the breakdown of family life -- again, factors for which the rioters cannot be blamed."
I stopped reading when I read this.
Apparently, this high-and-mighty, "objective" intellectual doesn't believe in causal factors.
Why does AMSPEC publish garbage that impugns conservatism? A chronic mystery that is becoming an eternal mystery...
Frank| 10.11.11 @ 10:36AM
What?!
Timothy L. Pennell| 10.11.11 @ 10:02AM
It IS "Multiculturalism. We don't have National Cultures, anymore. There's nothing to bind us, as a group. We have been DILUTED.
And, when I say "WE", I mean THE WEST. The White Anglo Saxon, Gaul, Germanic, Mediterranean CULTURES, are disappearing.
Nowhere else, in the world, is suffering from the same disintegration of their National Identity.
I'm just saying.
irish19| 10.11.11 @ 11:00PM
That's all part of that "feminization" Uzzi was praising.
Petronius| 10.11.11 @ 10:23AM
The truth is really hurting the liberals posting here today. They have one major commonality with the Yobs and one major difference. They too reject all previous customs of promotion and recognition by their elders. But they elevate cowardice as a virtue and attempt to force it upon all others by criminalizing self defense. Refusal along with inability to resolve conflict by repelling an assailant merely makes an otherwise "civilized"person, dead as a doormat.
I once asked a psychiatrist if there are people on our streets who are incorrigible and so violent they are unfit for human company. The answer is Yes there are. And the old conventional Victorian Morality was a bulwark against them. So tell me all you Liberals, that the bloodshed resulting from the mayhem of discarding it all back in '68 was worth it simply to validate your "intellectual superiority" and opinions of yourselves.
Julius| 10.11.11 @ 10:38AM
Petronius, please rewrite your post. As it is, it is incomprehensible.
Drunken Sailor| 10.11.11 @ 10:45AM
Let me translate for you.
When a society lowers it standards, expect them to be met. When you demonize men for being men, lower the virtues of courage and righteousness, then do not be surprised when there is no one to act civilized and defend the defensless.
123| 10.11.11 @ 10:48AM
We're talking about the kind of men who are tough, hard, brutes--the kind who cause so much mayhem.
Get it, Mr. Sailor?
Drunken Sailor| 10.11.11 @ 11:07AM
Todays society tells boys not to be loud, don't act out, be more like the girls and yet wonder why some of these young men rebel and act out. Rites of passage once confirmed to them that theuy were adults, gave them responsibilities and challenged them to met them. Something today's youth are not challenged to do. Lower your standards and expect them to be met. Now do you get it 123?
456| 10.11.11 @ 11:45AM
Hey, Sailor,
Reread Ed White's piece. It's the young, stupid, vulgar aggressive male mentality that is controlling our culture. That's why we have such mindless, violent vulgarity on TeeVee. Seen a reality show lately?
Drunken Sailor| 10.11.11 @ 11:54AM
Agreed and why are they acting that way? You showed one reason, reality shows. The rest of society also praises the wrong values and shows this type of behaviour constantly. Of course kids grow up trying to emulate that behavior.
"The effect of current policies has been to subsidize out-of-wedlock births, to remake marriage as a contract of cohabitation, and to drive religion, which is the true guardian of rites of passage, from the public sphere."
And where do you see these policies on display for our youth? Society today. Responsible behavior is frowned upon by society and media, so why should you expect them to act differently?
It will not change until society teaches them better and we show teach responsible behaviour, not the "it's all about me" behavior taught today.
SGT Baker (Native Coloradean)| 10.12.11 @ 6:59AM
Simple solution, take the schools back and teach our children actual values.
123| 10.11.11 @ 10:46AM
So much on this blighted blog is irritatingly "incomprehensible." So many of the regular posters are angry geezers. Their out-of-control anger prevents them from expressing themselves coherently.
Off to the golf course. Enough of this schizophrenic AmSpec crap.
Con Chef (NB) | 10.11.11 @ 11:11AM
Don't you have cop cars to crap on, like your "in-control" brethren on Wall St?
nohussein| 10.11.11 @ 11:19AM
Don't you just love that picture at the top with the crying little bitch-boy punk!
Con Chef (NB) | 10.11.11 @ 11:39AM
Nothing like a good wood shampoo for filthy hippies!!!
Petronius| 10.11.11 @ 1:43PM
J
To the savage, laws written and sanctioned by those he considers enemies mean nothing to him. And to the pacifist who refuses to fight predators in our midst, social attitudes do not make very good shields. And domination of our courts by these people has cost civilized Americans dearly in treasury, property, and Blood.
nohussein| 10.11.11 @ 10:43AM
bash a few of those dumb punks heads in , problem solved.
Tim the Enchanter| 10.11.11 @ 11:43AM
Have to disagree- problem not solved, just postponed.
Johnnycomelately| 10.11.11 @ 11:53AM
While I dont agree completely with the demands (Although I dont really understand what they are.) of these wall street protesters, I think many people are misreading the why. At least from what I have seen most of these people are just angry at the state of affairs today. Yes there does seem to be groups that are taking advantage of that, but the main theme that I get from these protests is that a lot of these people are people who played by the "rules". Unfortuantely the "rules" changed on them. I see a lot of these people are kids that probably got good grades, went to school, took out loans to go to school and graduated. Now they are trying to get jobs and are finding it very difficult to do so. The entry level jobs dont pay enough to pay back their loans and/or dont offer them a lifestyle which is very good. Im not saying they are completely without blame. I think they could use a year or two of manual labor which tends to help a person appreciate life a little better. Having said that I dont buy into all this you are not an adult unless you get married, have kids and saddle yourself with a mortgage talk. Im 39, Ive never been married. I dont have kids. I have a college degree. I make over $100k per year. I rent my house for $475 a month in a lower middle class neighborhood. I own a 2005 used car that I paid cash for. I have a very fat bank account. I have no debt whatsoever. I travel, I help support my parents. I am a very happy person. I will never be married. Ive come close and then realised I was getting into the same nighmare that my parents and others have lived for years. I look around at all the peope that married young and they are miserable and /or divorced. I look at the people who waited to get married and they are all miserable and/or divorced. Rich/poor people who are married are all miserable. In order to make marriage more attractive, you married people should at least try to fake a little happiness. All I hear from my married friends both male and female is constant complaining about their spouse. Constant fighting and discord. I know maybe 5 couples who seem truely happy with their decision to get married and at least seem like they work together for a common goal. The worst advertisement for marriage is married people themselves. I consider myself an adult. I work hard but thats probably from my upbringing on a farm. I have had for the most part full time employment since I was in the 3rd grade. I started paying taxes when I was in the sixth grade. I started investing when I was in the 7th grade. I agree with this article in that I was considered an adult at 10. I was then allowed to operate the tractor and field equipment. Yes I went through confirmation and all that but that was hardly a milestone. Doing grown up work was the milestone that I remember well. Getting my first shotgun at 13 was a big one too. When I was in highschool I played football and lifted weights. I had no curfew as I was an adult and I was expected to deal with my own problems. When I turned 10 I was given a salary of $20 per week. All my expenses were to be paid out of that. Clothes, school lunches, books, fuel, anything outside of basic room and board. That is where parents are going wrong today. They need to give kids responsibility. I understood that any problems I got myself into I would have to get myself out of. I wasnt perfect. I got arrested once, I didnt call my parents to bail me out as I knew that wouldnt do any good. I partied a lot in college, did a lot of drugs and alcohol and had a good time. I always knew though that if I got into trouble it would be on me to get myself out of trouble. So I probably stopped short of doing what my friends were doing. I realised long ago that society lies to you about everything. The only things that stay with me are what my father taught me. Keep working, be completely honest and fair with everyone you ever deal with, life is not fair at all, keep learning, stand up for what you believe in unless someone else has a better idea then do that, before you get married look at your future spouse's mother, travel and enjoy the bad times cause you never remember the good times, when you are old all you have are the stories you tell money doesnt mean anything. Im not ever going to fit in with what the authors idea of a good adult is. Most of these kids I feel sorry for. They are angry because they thought they were following what society's rules for success were. My advice to them is to get a job work hard. Find another job that you like better and pays better..repeat until you find something you really like and pays what you need it to pay. Working just for the sake of money sucks but being poor sucks even worse. Working at a job that you dont enjoy sucks slightly less than being poor. Do something you enjoy once you have a choice. Money doesnt mean anything once you have the basics covered, it does not buy happiness. Material possesions only make you a slave to them. Quit trying to emulate what society wants. Make friends and do things. The things that I regret not doing when I was younger, was not taking advantage of opportunities that were open to me at the time and not having more sex with alot more women. Dont take out loans if you can help it, pay cash. I have no debt. My life is so much better because of that. I dont even care if I lose my job. Actually fire me. Ill go travel around the world for a year. I have very little stress. My life is VERY good.
Bob Grant| 10.11.11 @ 12:12PM
Interesting life philosophy but your empathy with the protesters doesn't exactly jibe with your lengthy comments that followed.
These people don't really seem to be victims of a system by which they played by the rules.
Based on comments by many at the protests, they seem to be angry at being failures for not discovering a way to work the system in their favor.
Johnnycomelately| 10.11.11 @ 1:31PM
Well empathy is not perhaps what I would call it. I feel sorry for them because no one ever taught them this stuff. I feel sorry for them in that they bought all the bs that society fed to them. Perhaps I somewhat understand why they are angry. I would hardly call that empathy. I think these are kids who are waking up to something vastly different from what they expected. It sucks but no amount of bitching is going to change that. Only thing you can do is push forward. I disagree with the author in that the marriage, going through confirmation, boy scouts etc etc is some sort of rite of passage that magically makes you into an adult. Getting a job and living on your own makes you an adult. Thats precisely the problem these kids are having. I dont think that justifies their protests of walstreet although I have precious little sympathy for walstreet. Sorry for being so long winded.
JR | 10.11.11 @ 3:43PM
Dont worry Johnny it will be at least 10 maybe 20 years before your narcissism will catch up with you. Which is probably why all your peers are so miserable being married. Nobody is as perfect as they are and that includes their spouse.
Johnnycomelately| 10.11.11 @ 5:17PM
I hardly find myself to be a narcisist... I dont understand why I should do something that I know is going to make me miserable just just to satisfy the rest of society. Im a completely responsible person. I take care of myself and my family. I have nephews that I spoil constantly. I just dont want a family. What is wrong with that....fyi Its not just my peers that are miserable being married its people who are much older than me as well. Its not about anyone being perfect its about constant stress of raising a family. I know that Im missing out on children and grandchildren but I accept that completely. Children are a luxury that most people cannot afford. At least I recognize that and have taken steps to avoid it in the first place.
PJ| 10.11.11 @ 10:09PM
There are some people who are meant to be single & you seem to be 1 of them. Nothing wrong with that & it happens to be a vocation too. Every family should have at least 1 kind & generous uncle. Your extended family is very fortunate to have you!
Mary| 10.11.11 @ 12:36PM
Ever heard of a paragraph, Mr. JohnnyComeLately?
Johnnycomelately| 10.11.11 @ 12:51PM
Sorry, it was a stream of conscious reply. I dont profess to be a a good writer but that hardly takes anything away from what I was trying to communicate.
irish19| 10.11.11 @ 11:07PM
I was going to say something snarky about run-on sentences, but I'll accept your explanation.
Bob Grant| 10.11.11 @ 1:59PM
Oh come on. It was one.
A bit lengthy but one nonetheless.
Stan Redmond| 10.11.11 @ 2:41PM
I suspect you are / were a Tom Leykis listener. I'm about the same as you but find the protestors nothing more than a bored group of losers who have no idea why they are there.
Johnnycomelately| 10.11.11 @ 3:26PM
Im not sure who Tom Leykis is. Im not sure that they are losers...anyone that can organize an event like this coupled with the logistics isnt a loser. I think they are a bunch of naiveté kids who have woken up to the fact that everything they believed in is shyte. Their response is wrong but not perhaps their anger.
Franco| 10.11.11 @ 12:38PM
Attention! Attention, I say!
I am a sensitive guy. I love theatre. I am a devout cat person. I sob from time to time given the right film. I loathe cage-fighting types and mush-mouthed/brained thugs, especially the ones with the tatoos. I love animals and literature and art and the occasional quiche. I hate sports, organized and unorganized alike.
Wait--there's more. I also have a closet full of guns. I have a wife and family. I hold a job and drive my children to school each day. My favorite album is Iron Maiden's "Number of the Beast". I did chores as a kid, even.
This bickering is useless!
Bob Grant| 10.11.11 @ 2:05PM
A gun-toting Metro?
Franco| 10.11.11 @ 3:24PM
That, I be. We exist. There ought to be more of us.
Johnnycomelately| 10.11.11 @ 12:50PM
Well empathy is not perhaps what I would call it. I feel sorry for them because no one ever taught them this stuff. I feel sorry for them in that they bought all the bs that society fed to them. Perhaps I somewhat understand why they are angry. I would hardly call that empathy. I think these are kids who are waking up to something vastly different from what they expected. It sucks but no amount of bitching is going to change that. Only thing you can do is push forward. I disagree with the author in that the marriage, going through confirmation, boy scouts etc etc is some sort of rite of passage that magically makes you into an adult. Getting a job and living on your own makes you an adult. Thats precisely the problem these kids are having. I dont think that justifies their protests of walstreet although I have precious little sympathy for walstreet. Sorry for being so long winded.
Johnnycomelately| 10.11.11 @ 12:52PM
This was a reply to Bob Grant above. sorry
JR | 10.11.11 @ 3:45PM
Thats ok Johnny its just a symptom of your narcissism.
Johnnycomelately| 10.11.11 @ 4:31PM
I guess I dont understand how I am a narcissist or how apologising for something is a symptom of it.
Dimitri Aleksandrovich| 10.11.11 @ 3:17PM
My friend you don't know me but I'm willing to say that you hit the nail on the head. Right now I am a former Soviet republic in Central Asia (where my wife was born). Here every stage of life is marked with a celebration except for death which is met with a lament, but a lament that is nonetheless communal just as the celebrations of birth, circumcision, marriage, birth of a child and the birth of grandchildren. Here there is a strong social network (and I'm not talking Facebook) that follows every step of your life from childhood through adulthood into your old age and to your grave.
That is exactly what is lacking in the West. That is what we have lost in this post-Christian era. Because of it our young people have no direction and even no hope of a promising future except for the lust to become one of the celebrities we see on MTV, but that too only lasts for a short while.
Our problem is that we view Western nations that still hold onto at least some of these values as backward. For example look at the attacks on Ireland and Poland for their strong stances against abortion. Also take note of the push to introduce homosexual marriage to traditional Catholic western countries and the demonization of the people who oppose such things.
A true conservative cannot weigh the worth of their nation in the success of ones stock market. Far more important is the preservation of one's traditions that distinguish that nation from the rest in the first place.
Generation after generation the old customs, values and traditions are being lost and so are the traditional identities that went with being an Irishman or a Spaniard or an Italian or even an Englishman or a Frenchman.
This sense of lost hits deep in the souls of young men who eagerly seek to fill the void. Unfortunately this void is often filled with the gang life, or a neo-Nazi fraternity or a soccer hooligan club rather than the traditional family and the social bonds that make up a true community.
Unfortunately in this day and age of the IPhone and all these technological advancements I don't see the problem getting any better. It will take a revival of traditional Christian society that which breathed life into these distinct cultures and identities to see a real change. That's why in Russia we see the Russian Orthodox Church taking such a visible role in every avenue of public life. The Church knows that young Russian people are seeking an identity in the wake of the fall of the Soviet Union 20 years ago and they want to be the ones to fill that void because to be Orthodox at one time was to be Russian and vice versa.
Drunken Sailor| 10.11.11 @ 3:38PM
Nailed it Dimitri!
Petronius| 10.12.11 @ 9:01AM
Gruss Gott Dimitri
The Great Secret of Fatima states that Russia will spread Her heirs throughout the world. But then Russia will be (re)converted.
Maddox| 10.12.11 @ 9:33AM
Wise words, sir. If only our politicians were as able to see what you do.
ncatty| 10.11.11 @ 4:50PM
Roger Scruton hit a nerve with this article. Value in tradition? Oh no!
Infantryman| 10.11.11 @ 5:34PM
All military and naval organizations worth a tinker's dam have rites of passage. The more professional the organization the more thorough and tougher the indoctrination and training. Discipline and unit cohesion form the universal glue which underpin all top notch organizations and is particularly true of armed forces. The first thing any recruit learns is to obey the sergeant, and be quick about it. The second is the importance of the unit to which he or she belongs. It is their new family and they quickly learn their primary loyalty must be to it and to their comrades who make up the family. The third and most important quality is devotion to duty. The young soldier may not know this as a concept but he certainly practices it. He quickly learns that he is evaluated on individual performance and is rewarded accordingly. He also finds out that his unit is graded as a whole during a myriad activities ---physical training, dismounted drill, rifle range, map reading, cleaning the barracks, cleaning weapons and field equipment, standing inspections, guard duty to name some and is also rewarded accordingly. He realizes he must do his best to not let his fellow soldiers down. Discipline, loyalty to one's fellow workers and the organization one works for, and a sense of duty go a long way towards building a healthy society. National service for a few years for all of our 18 to 20 year olds, no exceptions, would go a long towards rejuvinating our country.
Martin Owens| 10.11.11 @ 6:06PM
Why do they call it " common sense" when it's so scarce?
Tony in Central PA| 10.11.11 @ 9:03PM
My twenty plus years working in a small community health center has impressed upon me the truism that man indeed is a strange animal. This strange animal requires many more years of nuturing and socialization than any other animal in order to be a successful member of its own society. This is especially true for males.
As societies, particularly western societies, have become increasingly technological and prosperous, they have rejected many centuries of accumulated wisdom on the assumption that it is primitive, foolish and worst of all inconvenient. The past has nothing to teach us. People are different now you see, the world has never seen anything like us before. Yes, we are the ones we have been waiting for.
POST American| 10.11.11 @ 11:27PM
---Ah, the latest provocateured,
agenda advancing 'unrest' within Britain.
WILL the English, Scots and Welsh EVER
tire of being dominated by German USURY
and its attendant sordid, squalid and soul
damning Freemasonry OPs?
What good did the USURY enriching empire
EVER do for the ordinary Brit?
Surely, the heyday of empire and industrialism
was a perfect hellhole for the common man
--viz Dickens ----the ROT-child introduced and
enforced Poor Laws, Enclosure, the annihilation
of British textiles with cheap imported goods
etc. etc. etc.
And, of course, with their phoney carbon tax
and infamous Bank of INTER-national
Settlements coup ----- their STILL very,
very much at it!
Time to throw off these monsters.
-------BACK------BACK -----BACK to Bunyan!
------------------BACK to BRITAIN--------------------
or better yet England, Scotland and Wales.
---------------BACK TO THE FUTURE----------------
Harry Hunter| 10.18.11 @ 1:51PM
Now I know why intellectuals hate Israelis - it's because Israelis are tough and intellectuals are soft,