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The Nation's Pulse
Earning a Living
Do college grads even deserve a meaningful career?
Journalists. They can turn the most benign trend into a national crisis. Normally they reserve their Chicken-Littleism for when there’s a Republican in the White House. These days they can’t wait. They may be out of a job by time the Obamas are sent packing. Hopefully in January 2013.
The current crisis is said to grip those the press has dubbed — rather unoriginally — the “Lost Generation,” i.e., middle-class teens and twentysomethings. According to new Census figures, “only 55 percent of Americans aged 16 to 29 have jobs.” Tell me about it. My kid recently turned 18. At least my Mac works on occasion.
Being wordsmiths, journalists are expert at shading the truth. Almost as expert as con men and politicians. But no one in his right mind believes nearly half of those under 30 are shuffling along some Skid Row bread line. The fact is most people between 16 and 29 are, like my kid, still in school. Or working part time. Or, if they live in my neighborhood, sponging off some idiot young woman with three kids. What’s more, they are likely blissfully free from all of the normal adult trappings: marriage, children, and mortgages. So as long as they can scrape together enough to pay their iPhone bill and order stuffed-crust pizza seven days a week they are happy as fried clams.
Reading these stories one gets the sense an editor wrangled a reporter and said, “Here, take these clichés: ‘Grim outlook.’ ‘Lost Generation.’ ‘Collective hopelessness.’ Now write a nation-in-crisis piece. We go to press in three minutes.”
Not to be outdone, the New York Times has fabricated another cliché: the Ivy League graduate on welfare. The Times recently ran a piece featuring a Dartmouth grad who claims that six of her former classmates are surviving on food stamps. Predictably, all of these Ivy grads earned hot, in-demand degrees in recession-proof sectors like conceptual art, English literature, and advertising, where they learned valuable, real-world skills like writing lyrical verse or jingles for Oscar Meyer wiener commercials. Quoth the Dartmouth grad: “We did everything we were supposed to.”
Not quite. You were supposed to learn something pragmatic, useful and mind-numbingly boring for your quarter-of-a-million-dollar tuition. Like market research analysis, or software engineering. Art and dance is great fun — if you’re a girl — but few Fortune 500 talent acquisition managers will hire you because you can pirouette on cue. The Ivy Leaguer says she now plans to do what every hopelessly unemployed Humanities major in the country does eventually. She’s going to law school.
THE AIM OF these supposedly tragic news stories is to convince the extremely gullible that free market capitalism is deader than 4 a.m. I mean, if Ivy Leaguers have to survive on government cheese, what chance does a cow college graduate have?
But in telling these tales of woe, the journalists are inevitably tripped up by their uncooperative subjects who appear to be having a great time of it, tending bar, playing in punk rock bands, joining the Peace Corps, living eight to a flat, or touring the country in an old Chevy minivan. (“No career? No prospects? No worries!”) The Times calls these people victims of bad timing. In my youth we called them slackers. Today, they call themselves the “funemployed.”
Of course, the real unemployment crisis is found among the working classes where people still hold not high-powered careers, but menial jobs. The average working man doesn’t have a Daddy Warbucks to fund his funemployment. He is also more likely to be married with children. Yet the media largely ignores him and focuses instead on middle class college graduates. Somehow the vagaries of the free market seem worse when dweebs with degrees fail to find meaningful careers than when steel workers get laid off.
Today every Joe Suburb with a sheepskin thinks he is entitled to a corner office and a smoking hot secretary. Such an annoying sense of entitlement used to be reserved solely for the welfare class. I don’t know any autoworker who thinks just because he knows a thing or two about punching out Chryslers he is owed a living. And if he doesn’t get one he is going to move back in with mommy and daddy. At least until they start charging him rent.
No doubt it is their own fear of losing their meaningful careers that drive these high-powered journalists to obsessively rehash the phony Lost Generation — Yale grads-on-welfare bromide. To them I would say, no worries. You can always join a punk rock band.
About the Author
Christopher Orlet writes from St. Louis.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (103) | Leave a comment
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Darin| 9.29.11 @ 6:33AM
Good point about courses of study. I refuse to help my kids if they take any sort of "Studies" major or some kind of degree where there are no jobs in the real world. They may not be able to find a job in the major they studied, but employers will look much better on a science or engineering degree. You have to apply yourself to get such a degree, just like you have to apply yourself to do any sort of job. I'd hire a Chemistry major to do something faster than I'd hire a Sociology major.
Occam's Tool| 9.29.11 @ 12:00PM
Texas Christian University is literally a "Cow College," as it is located in Fort Worth. It's pre-med program, when I went there, had an 80% plus placement rate into medical school if one had the correct academic average.
I had a 33 ACT and a 1420 SAT (old style, 1979). I got a full tuition scholarship. I also was accepted to Wash U and Northwestern Universities (offered a chance to get a 3 year bachelor's at Northwestern), and was recruited by U of Chicago.
I was interested in pre-med. The easiest way to put together a pre-med course selection is to be a Biology Major. I was a 3.73 in Biology, and graduated Magna Cum Laude (as an expert witness, these details are necessary to know). My MCAT was a 68, higher than the average at Harvard Medical School---from Cotown U. I was accepted to University of Illinois, Chicago as a State Resident and UTMB as an out of state resident. UTMB is where I went.
I then went to UCLA San Fernando Valley for psychiatric training (UCLA is one of the top Universities in the world, especially in Medicine), and now I have a job and a small private practice, making together around $340,000-$350,000 a year with no overhead except CME about (2-4,000 a year---the private practice allows me to claim it as a tax deduction) and my family's health insurance (about$1400/yr). I have a pension plan and a 403 (B).
Yeah, so CowTown U can get you there, literally. It is the student, not the College. Oregon State graduated Linus Pauling; University of Minnesota graduated Norman Borlaug, CCNY graduated Jonas Salk. All are good schools; none are Ivy. 2 of the above won Nobels; one was the greatest humanitarian who was known to be fully human the world has ever known, a DIFFERENT one cured polio, a third won 2 Nobels.
But only the individual student can take his head out of his ass.
Al Adab| 9.29.11 @ 3:57PM
Go Horned Frogs!
Academic credentials, and I have an MA, are clearly overrated when it comes to real world value.
Occam's Tool| 9.29.11 @ 4:40PM
Thanks, Al. You are awesome.
DG in GA| 9.29.11 @ 4:41PM
Well Dr. Occam, you are absolutely right about that. It doesn't matter so much where you went to school, it matters what you major in and what you do with it later. As I read this article I found myself wondering if the person who was lamenting the "lack of employment opportunities" for college grads aged 21 - 29 was, perhaps, an unemployed Journalism School grad writing freelance for the paper. As I have a child in that age range, I have noticed a lot of her friends are unemployed, with B.A.s and Master's degrees, many of whom are contemplating going back to school, yet again, to get the magic PhD that will guarantee them lifetime employment. Right. I also notice that most of them majored in subjects that are basically useless, like Womyn's Studies, Diversity Studies, Sociology, Journalism, Film, etc. Some went to Ivy League schools (one has a Master's degree in Celtic Languages from Haahvahd). But one thing they all seem to have in common that is keeping them from becoming employed (other than indulgent parents) is the weird belief that they should find a job doing something they LOVE. And if they don't LOVE doing it, they quit. So they major in crap, and then they're confused when they either can't get a job DOING what they majored in, or they end up in a completely unrelated job they hate. (They also think they should be making $50K or better right out of school) And life wasn't supposed to BE like that. I mean, for heaven's sake, I went to Haahvaahd!!!!! I'm smarter than EVERYONE!!! I got a 2000 on my SAT!!!
When my daughter was contemplating her educational options, we made it clear that we would not pay for certain majors. If she majored in nonsense, she was on her own. We also made it clear that once she graduated from her undergrad, she was on her own. So she better get a job. She majored in chemical engineering, got a job with the company where she did her internship and THEY paid for her Master's degree. She believes in a couple of years that will also pay for her PhD, as long as she agrees to continue to work for them. She has her own place, and does not allow any of her slacker friends to move in with her.
Alert1201| 9.29.11 @ 6:39AM
When I was in college during the 80s I would say 1/2 - 2/3 of the students I knew had no interest in a career. While I was working to pay my way, studying like crazy at a difficult degree (2 degrees actually) they were out partying, coming to class (when the did come) hung-over and half asleep. They were basically living an extra 4 years on daddy's dime. It was nothing more then an extended high school party. There degrees were in humanities, business or economics and they had no interest in, vision or concept of a career.
When I got out of college I walked right into a $22k job (very good for a 22 year old in 1987) they were either living at home or flipping burgers. The ones I kept up with were constantly complaining about their plight as if their lack of interest, dedication and purpose in college had nothing to do with it. Even when I pointed it out to them they still claimed they had been shafted and treated unfairly. My guess is this "lost generation" would be no different.
Stefan Stackhouse| 9.29.11 @ 1:23PM
It needs to be said: to a much too great extent at too many colleges, it is mostly about four years of fun plus jumping through hoops to receive the credential of a degree. It is little wonder that said credential is becoming rapidly devalued, just as a high school diploma has become.
Students and their families need to understand that learning happens inside the student's mind rather than being imparted by educators. There is no substitute for doing the reading, working the problems, drilling the foreign language, and writing the papers. That can all be done regardless of where one goes to school. These days, one hardly even needs a school for these things.
Students and their families also need to understand that even if few colleges really care that much any more about encouraging true learning among their students, it still very much matters once they get out and have to make a living. Employers won't care about how much fun the student had during their four years at college. Beyond simply enabling them to make the first cut, employers won't even care very much about what hoops the applicant had to jump through to get their degree. They will care very much about skills and knowledge that the applicant has attained - especially if it has already been demonstrated in application to some practical experience. I rather suspect that it is the glaring absence of this latter bit that is the real problem for these "funemployed" college graduates.
oldfart| 9.29.11 @ 6:54AM
All three of our boys have jobs but unlike when I was in my early and middle 20's current payscales cannot be called a 'living wage'. The economy has been turned upside down in the 'social democracy' that will prevent the expansion of the middle-class (where most new wealth is generated). The middle-class is contracting, and with it greatly dimished opportunities to create new wealth.
DG in GA| 9.29.11 @ 4:49PM
So, Oldfart, what do you consider a "living wage" for someone fresh out of college with no practical experience? I don't know about you, but when I got out of college with a business major and was accepted into a management training program with a prestigious company, I had to share an apartment with two other girls in order to afford the rent. I drove a used car for many years, and had to be very careful with my money. I know a lot of young people today wouldn't even consider having a roommate, and if they can't get the brand new BMW right out of school they whine about not being paid a "living wage." Guess it's all in how you define "living." When you first graduate, unless you're a software wiz or an engineer you don't have any skills that are worth much to an employer. But work for a couple of years, get some practical experience and you'd be amazed at how your value in the marketplace will rise!
edo| 9.29.11 @ 5:59PM
"... what do you consider a living wage" for someone fresh out of college with no practical experience?" $15,000 / yr.
Buck Ofama| 10.1.11 @ 2:40AM
All that blathering on, and you don't even state what YOU think is a living wage. ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Brian Mc| 9.29.11 @ 6:55AM
I have no empathy for an individual who suddenly comes to the realization that they are irrelevant. No matter the relevance of any one person's life might appear (to them, or to others) in their own time, sooner or later, they too become just a name with no intrinsic value. Doubt me? Ask the next twenty-something you meet who Oppenheimer was and what he did.
I heard a discussion with David Horowitz yesterday where he waxed eloquent on the state of affairs concerning redemption. It was profound and quite eye-opening. The most immature among us want their redemption and they want it now, no matter that the rest of us must suffer for it. By true definition a liberal is not as liberable as they might think.
What these children fail to realize? We will all answer for our gifts as in the parable, someday; that day is called by many, "Judgement Day". My advice would be simple. Get off your ass and get to it. Time is not on your side and it will contribute, sooner or later, and to a damning degree your irrelevance.
And so, the struggle continues to save this Republic.
Buck Ofama| 10.1.11 @ 2:41AM
>I have no empathy for an individual who suddenly comes to the realization that they are irrelevant.
Like Ovomit?
Southern_Comment| 10.1.11 @ 10:00PM
He's not come to that realization yet.
Melvin| 9.29.11 @ 7:45AM
There are those that design rockets and there are those who build them.
As a functioning society I suppose we need both. College graduates and tradesmen.
This is the business I am in. The Company hired a young man who has a degree in Construction Management. He has the rare ability to operate in both worlds. He articulates what he has learned and has the ability to speak clearly without speaking in academic jargon.
This young 20 something has brought new and fresh idead to a company that was full of, "Well this is the way we have been doing it for 30 years types."
I read somewhere once that a very successful man once said, "A college graduate actually needs two degrees. One for his or her mind, and one to make a living with."
For the young man or woman, it doesn't make much sense to get a degree in gender and feminist studies and expect to get hired. I suppose these two courses would do well in the government run public education system.
Darin| 9.29.11 @ 10:50AM
Yes, there are those that design rockets and those who build them. There are also those who sit back, watch the show, and say "Ooohh, pretty." We have far too many of that third group, many of which believe the first two groups owe them a living (and they'll vote for anyone who will take from the first two group and give it to them).
JimP| 9.29.11 @ 7:48AM
I think this column misses the mark. While many young people are exactly as the author describes, two of my three are over 18 now and they can't find jobs with any middle class future to them. So, while UAW guys with GEDs may not be taking their jobs & lifestyle for granted-inbetween toking and swilling during lunch break- youngsters who are motivated and getting educated have very limited prospects unless we get more Reaganesque officials in DC.
Larry| 9.29.11 @ 7:54AM
I'd love for someone to poll current students and recent college grads and ask them who they voted for in 2008. We know the answer- "The cool black guy." Unfortunately, too many of them, if they vote next year will vote for the same jerk again.
DG in GA| 9.29.11 @ 4:52PM
I think you're right about this, and all the while they whine about their job prospects. Pretty much all of the 20-somethings I know voted for Obama, and will do it again in 2012. They're still busy blaming the economy on Bush. I guess they haven't noticed he hasn't been running things for a few years...
Old Soldier| 9.29.11 @ 8:01AM
Decades ago Liberal Arts majors used to be hired for management training positions by big companies. Back then, a Liberal Arts major was expected to be proficient in math and economics, as well as the humanities. This balance made them good candidates for management since they would be dealing with people and numbers.
Those days are long gone. I interview interns every Spring. We bring in Engineering, Math / Statistics, and Business majors. We have no interest in the whiny useless leftist indoctrinated liberal arts losers that colleges are cranking out.
Time for colleges to seriously examine the product they are producing.
Occam's Tool| 9.29.11 @ 12:01PM
OS--yup.
The Wild Goose| 9.29.11 @ 5:22PM
Old Soldier you are right! I was one of those who took that route and got a degree in History. It was believed that the best CEO's had a liberal arts undergraduate degree, military experience after that, and then and only then, an MBA. It worked well for me.
BTW, my degree in "History" required Algebra, Chemistry, Biology, English, Economics, and Foreign language in addition to my History hours.
Appleby| 9.30.11 @ 7:14AM
I have said this many times: a University education is not meant to fit you to earn a living: It Is Meant To Fit You For Life. If you want a trade, go to trade school. (Daddy always said that we all need both a profession and a trade, so we can always earn a living).
The gigantic error the parents (not TheKids, who are after all Kids) make is in believing that a university education, which if they had the right upbringing, will turn them into ladies and gentlemen fit to associate with and communicate with the educated world -- that is, a common bedrock of knowledge (the hated Liberal Arts degree of yore) upon which to erect their building is going to get them A Job.
Not so. It is meant to save your child from the shame of hearing an educated person say jokingly, *Thus malt doth more than Milton can/to justify Gods ways to Man* and answering, *Did you make that up?* or *Milton who?* or, if he is Southern, *Do Whut now?*
I came out of University with a liberal arts degree and a trade I learned on the side, and spent the next ten years finding a ladder with a lower rung for me -- and travelling the world, and like Crocodile Dundee, I found myself at home in any company because I had a bedrock foundation of vocabulary, history, English and American literature and 5,000 years of history that allowed me to participate in conversations with people who could be of help to me. And not inconsequently learning how to handle myself around people of every sort and kind. I was fortunate to have parents who taught me to eat with silverware, dress for dinner, and not to use vulgar language -- and that God gave me 2 ears and 1 mouth so I could listen twice as much as I talk. (You can take classes to teach you manners, if your parents missed that step. At Ease Please, for example).
In sum, university, as Thomas Jefferson pointed out, turns the sons and daughters of successful farmers and businessmen into ladies and gentlemen of the world. That is its purpose.
If you do not wish to be a lady or a gentleman, go to trade school or secretarial school and then go to work. Time enough to add the polish later.
WRTolkas| 9.29.11 @ 8:17AM
My four children: Daughter #1 has her teaching degree. Daughter #2 has her engineering degree. Son #1 is a junior working on his geological engineering degree. Daughter #3 is starting her nursing RN degree. The first two are gainfully employed. The seconded two I have no doubt will be gainfully employed.
An acquaintance's son has a masters degree in cultural anthropology. He and his wife live in her parent's basement. He is an assistant manager at a local Staples.
I am a design engineer working on future automotive safety features that will save lives. Early in my education, I knew what payed and what didn't. This I passed on to my children. College and life are too expensive just to learn a hobby.
John Navratil| 9.29.11 @ 8:40AM
WRTolkas,
Cheers to you! Education! Education! Education!
It's the one thing which can never be repossessed. It's a pity what passes for education today.
Alert1201| 9.29.11 @ 9:03AM
Exactly! Right now I have a son who is 15 and we are already gearing him for a career that will pay something. Every course he takes (he is homeschooled) is moving him toward that goal.
Occam's Tool| 9.29.11 @ 12:03PM
It is important to note that I also took a multi-disiplinary course on the Holocaust, a course on the Roman Empire (Tacitus and Seutonius, in translation, for that course), and multiple religion courses. All were worthwhile. I despised some of my core curricula (gym---in COLLEGE!), but not those.
Al Adab| 9.29.11 @ 4:03PM
I daresay OT that one could graduate these days without ever learning who Occam was.
Old Soldier| 9.29.11 @ 12:04PM
Sounds great. Too bad the colleges have lost the ability to turn out graduates with useful skills AND and some familiarity with Art, History, and Literature.
DG in GA| 9.29.11 @ 4:59PM
"College and life are too expensive just to learn a hobby."
Excellent point! I met a young woman who was majoring in Feminist Philosophy for her undergrad. I asked her what she planned to do for a living when she got out of school. "I'll be a writer," she said. "Writing what?" I asked. "Books about feminist philosophy."
I pointed out there might not be a big market for that in the real world. Perhaps she should major in something useful, and read and write about feminist philosophy for fun. I mean, it's not like you really need a professor to spout this nonsense for you. But alas, she continued down the FP path, and now lives in her old bedroom at her parents' house, searching for a school that will accept her for a PhD in...you guessed it...Feminist
Philosophy.
Joe| 10.3.11 @ 5:19PM
It sounds like your kids are just pawns created by you. How do you know they would have stumbled into those professions by actually liking them instead of Daddy forcing them? I love all the OLD whiners on here. They obviously come here to jump on the LOST GENERATION because they haven't really accomplished what they wanted in life. Come on, WE ALL KNOW ITS TRUE.
I love how MY generation are the spoiled and LAZY ones. Right, like we really want to be without jobs (which I have one btw). My generation was FUCKD by your generation.
Mark my words, when I take power all of you WEAK baby boomers better already be dead. For I will bring destruction down on you and all your weak offspring. You are marked, YOU COWARDS. YOU KNOW YOUR SINS. YOU TOOK FROM THE GREATEST GENERATION EVER, your parents, AND PUT THE SIN OF YOUR SIN ON US. WE WILL HAVE NO MORE. Like I said, pray you are dead when I rise to power. Just PREY, YOU WEAK VERMIN.
OldSeabee| 9.29.11 @ 8:58AM
College grads with no employment opportunities! Who would have thought of such an impasse! If the parents of the college freshman ever closely monitored the class schedule of their child, they might be very disappointed. Since the parents are PAYING for this college degree, they MUST exert control over how that money is being spent. NO feel-good "studies curriculum" classes should be allowed.
Sugartown Super| 9.29.11 @ 2:10PM
Sadly, under current law, we as parents, despite the fact that we are footing the bill for all of this, do not legally have access to our kids' records. The kids must grant us permission to see their grades, etc. My kids do so quite willingly, being proud of how well they are doing, but not all kids are so cooperative. Shame on the parents who do not control the use of their funds. Too few parents act as parents; they want to be their childrens' friends. They have no one to blame but themselves if their progeny end up unemployed with a useless degree...
DG in GA| 9.29.11 @ 5:03PM
You're right about that, Sugartown. And shame on the parents who won't require the kids to give them the report cards. I think it's disgusting that the colleges and universities don't send copies home to the people paying the bills, but I can assure you, my parents insisted on seeing those report cards, and if the GPA was not up to their standards, there would not have been another dime of tuition! They also spelled out for me which majors they would pay for and which they would not. I assure you, there are no African Dance Theory majors in MY family. There are however several Business majors, engineers and doctors.
Derek Leaberry| 9.29.11 @ 9:16AM
The kids of today only deserve enough money for the multitude of tattoos and phone gadgets that is their fetish. Managing the late shift at a McDonald's ought to suffice.
russel| 9.29.11 @ 9:24AM
Ever since Horowitz began taking on the Universities for their malfeasance , I've carried around a pet thot : if the cost of college got so high only a few could afford it , it'd force the socialist professors to look for other work . Therefore , no more brainwashing of our kids . Whole generations of new teachers would be free of the socialist disease , hence , the kids they teach . A reversal of the trend over the last fifty years . I can always wish .
Petronius| 9.29.11 @ 10:03AM
Too bad those commie profs are insulated from the market by Sallie Mae and Pell Grants. Government appropriations for student loans goes up one year. Tuition goes up the next. The Feds learned that with Medicare. Abolish entitlements Now!! Then carpet bomb their bullshit factories starting with Wash U.
Timothy L. Pennell| 9.29.11 @ 9:28AM
Actually. It IS the Free Market, that is keeping these precious little darlings, from being employed. When times are tough, things get tough.
Think of it, as a Really Bad Snowstorm. The City is Shut Down. What happens? Who goes to work?
Give up?
The ESSENTIAL workers. The Non-Essentials, stay home. Because, they're non-essential.
It's the same with Economies. When times are GOOD? Their may very well be, a DEMAND for someone with a Masters Degree in Lithuanian Poetry. Or a Sociologist, who's expertise is..... I don't know. Whatever it is that Sociologists do.
When times are tough, we need people with Skills that people NEED. We can't afford the Luxury of an Ivy League Diploma. We need that guy over there, who can unclog our toilet. We need that guy, who can fix our car. Who can deliver us Home Heating Oil. Who can Stock Shelves at the Super Market.
This, may very well BE, a Lost generation.
That's what you get when you follow a Leader, who keeps going THE WRONG WAY.
Seek| 9.29.11 @ 11:54AM
Sociologists write and talk about human societies. Which, you must admit, are a lot more complex than bovine or feline societies. Read some serious books.
Timothy L. Pennell| 9.29.11 @ 12:07PM
So, what you're saying is that, they do what I thought they did. NOTHING.
Why, that's exactly what the world needs. More Idiots, sitting around TALKING, to the betterment of NOBODY.
Like, Seek.
Idiot.
Seek| 9.29.11 @ 1:17PM
Your posts are quite entertaining. Not especially useful. But, yes, entertaining.
Timothy L. Pennell| 9.29.11 @ 5:18PM
Well, we can't all be as "Useful" as YOU. Can we?
Ken (Old Texican)| 9.29.11 @ 10:01AM
My comment was scrubbed. Briefly, what I wrote was that my part time and sumer jobs WHILE in college launched my career.
Drilling rig offshore roughneck
Sewing machine repair
photocopier repair
Life insurance sales
Present day, one gambit that has worked well for many of my friends that I have told about it...enter a company or a law office etc...as an unpaid intern. Demonstrate interest in what the company is doing (read articles in business magazines etc. to find out what they are doing.)
A sharp kid will be on the payroll in six months if he/she works hard and learns.
Appleby| 9.30.11 @ 7:21AM
And LEAVE THE BINKIE HOME. You are not being hired to text, to surf, or to update your Facebook page. The sooner you learn to break your addictive dependence on your $600 per month Binkie Habit, the better your life will be.
Louis Jenkins| 9.29.11 @ 10:30AM
Yes, I too went to college, back before computers. In those days we hammered out our papers on a typewritter. Then upon graduation I spent one year in grad school and dropped out. Ended up in a totally different discipline-job, and haven't looked back. In those days a college education could get you a job, and it was cheap(er) if you worked your tail off like I did. Perhaps our society is selling too much. A college education does not equal a job, and the job may not always equal your education. But, if you can acquire a job then make the most of it. Even flipping burgers has potential.
Darin| 9.29.11 @ 10:55AM
It's as much about the degree as it is about the work ethic. I worked full-time second shift while going to college full-time. I had to in order to pay for school. There wasn't time to complain, and in truth the thought never crossed my mind. Working hard for what you wanted was just how things were done. All I expected was the opportunity to do my best.
Drew| 9.29.11 @ 11:51AM
Totally agree with you Darin. Recently layed off after 33 years at a large company. Luckily, retirement for me is a option I am looking at. I held many positions at this company over the years and have no college degree but took college classes here and there as I needed. Survived many of the past layoffs due to what I believe was my work ethic. Left the company with a salary that a experienced Mech. Engineer with a degree in Calif. currently makes. Not bad for someone who barely made it through High School.
Simon Templar| 9.29.11 @ 11:50AM
This article is one of the most ridiculous and useless that I have seen here at TAS on such a serious topic.
One of the major reasons people came to this country and stayed here for generations was the fact that it offered opportunity to those that were willing to get an education, work hard, follow the rules, and save and manage their money wisely.
Now, we run articles that flippantly propose the idea that an education is irrevelant, it does not matter if you are gainfully employed, it does not matter that a generation is living off their parents, and it does not matter whether or not this society is educating, training, and employing its people with efficiency and practicality.
Then you have an elite media and ruling class that exploits this funemployed generation and attempts to teach them that they are victims and that government is the only answer. The idea is that one should not have any expectations of the private sector, the university, or even themselves.
We are eating our own children, shirking our responsibilities, blaming the other guy, rewarding failure, dumbing down our workforce, and punishing those that do play by the rules.
Now, we read articles about vast amounts of college educated adults from 20 to 30 unemployed and underemployed. Yes, this is a crisis and not something to be flippant about or something for comedy. As we are throwing away the young, we also hear about discrimination of those over 50 years of age as well. Those unemployed greater than 6 months are now unfit for employment as well. We are destroying ourselves. Never mind that while all this is going on we are increasing work visas for Indians and Chinese to take millions of American jobs in the IT industry and several other business sectors.
Pile on unions that fight right to work and drain the public treasuries. Universities only interested in socialist indoctrination and teaching a hatred for capitalism and traditional values. Parents completely clueless and uninvolved in their childrens education. Now, a government that encourages dependency, victimhood, class warfare, rewards failure in both industry and with private citizens. Bailouts, free money, free houses, permanent unemployment benefits, welfare benefits for illegals, and free education.
The business sector flees for offshore from overregulation, transfers assets, jobs, and production overseas. Demands more work visas for foreigners for hire level jobs. Hires illegals in its lower end jobs by the millions.
We have a very serious problem here and we are tearing ourselves apart.
Where does that leave the rest of us who did work hard, acquired education, paid our mortgages, saved our money, tried to invest our money, and bought our own homes. Screwed.
Drunken Sailor| 9.29.11 @ 3:48PM
Simon,
Perhaps the point is not that a education is irrelevent but some college degrees are. Why must everyone have a college degree? Whatever happend to trade schools?
The point is perhaps some of this kids should have researched the job market potential before deciding on a major and not simply taking a major they thought would be easy or fun.
How many of these college graduates are now unemployed by choice? In other words how many of them refuse to take a job that has nothing to do with their degree?
Al Adab| 9.29.11 @ 4:07PM
Siman, DS:
For 2500 years western civilization has debated the meaning of education. What makes an educated person?
Do we use our system today to train in skills, make persons employable, or "educate" them in the canon of their culture? We need to restore that debate to its central position in our educational system. That system today is more concerned with its own continuance than with any purpose it may otherwise serve.
Anthony| 9.29.11 @ 12:19PM
Dear Joe Suburbs, Let me assure all of you, having a corner office and a smoking hot secretary isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Sure both views are great, but still, the work has to be done, and being smoking hot doesn't make up for talent, except in my case.
Besides, Ms. smoking hot has an attitude problem, which, given the current state of the workplace enviornment, leaves me with few options.
I can't even get the fireplace in my office the proper attention it deserves. I asked Ms. smoking hot the other day to order some firewood for the upcoming winter. She hasn't gotten around to it yet, so she tells me.
Oh well, I'll just pretend all is well and blog away on my computer.
Oh wait, Ms. smoking hot has just buzzed me.
Gary| 9.29.11 @ 12:21PM
Poor, poor Ivy League grads! Many, many moons ago I graduated from Nicholls State U. in south Louisiana and got my law degree from that football and frat crazy LSU, but managed to work, raise a family and retire despite my lowly educational credentials, not having attended HAAAAARRRRVAAAAARRRRD! Miracle do happen! Go Tigers! Number ONE!!
Ron| 9.29.11 @ 12:21PM
I notice alot of the "I am helping my child" or "I am paying for college for them."
NO WAY!!!! Both of my children know that they are taking care of college themselves. My daughter started this fall, and she had one scholarship (about $1500.00) and she is still working at McDonalds @ $12.75 per hour part-time to pay for her student loans. She is paying as she goes, so that she will be reasonably debt free coming out of college. neither my wife, nor myself had any type of help from our families (they could never afford to put us through school.) I enlisted in the National guard to serve my country and the savings were a nice perk to pay for school. my wife is still paying off her student loans each month like clockwork.
We both work, but are not making the largesse to pay for two college educations. My children know this. No free rides in this life.
DaveS| 9.29.11 @ 4:48PM
Heartless!
W| 9.29.11 @ 1:03PM
The problem today is most colleges are a business to make money for the college to pay overpaid professors and vastly overpaid administrators. Tuition rises about 8% per year to pay for bloated salaries and fancy new buildings with luxury dorms. The colleges know that everyone believes you have to attend college, so they keep raising tuition knowing that the parents and students will obtain loans, grants, etc. to pay. It is a self perpetuating spiral.
There are thousands of colleges. Now they advertise on billboards and TV because they need bodies to fill the dorms and pay the tuition. Anybody can get accepted at a college.
I have a daughter in junior year HS and we get emails daily from colleges asking her to apply and waiving the application fee. I assume the colleges get a mailing list of students who have made honor roll in HS and took the SAT in grade school and freshman year HS.
Bottom line is today everybody went to college, junior college, so a degree does not mean much. I have clients who are college grads who can barely read and write who work at menial labor-type jobs.
The ugly truth is many should not attend college but attend a good vocational school school for plumbing, electrical, and other skilled trades.
John786| 9.29.11 @ 1:04PM
Society needs scientists and engineers. But also artists, writers, creatives, managers etc. Everybody adds to GDP. Some people seem to have the word entitlements seared on to their brain. If I had spent zillions educating myself and there was nothing at the end of it, I would be pretty disappointed. Lets cut these kids a bit of slack.
Mike Hawk| 9.29.11 @ 1:43PM
We also need welders, carpenters, electricians, machinists, truck drivers, farmers and lots of other tradesmen. College education not required, but optional. You'd also be surprised how many tradesmen have higher education.
Drunken Sailor| 9.29.11 @ 3:53PM
Exactly Mike!! You mention trade schools now and watch how fast you see the snobs raise their nose even higher. My stepsons were shocked to find out what some tradesmen can make, if they apply themselves. All because their father has been pounding into their head for years they HAVE to get a college degree. I told them college is great but do not limit their options to just that. Research the job markets, find a career you would like that has potential and you would like. If you want to lay bricks for a life and had a strong work ethic I would be just as proud of them.
irish19| 9.29.11 @ 4:35PM
The nice thing about a trade is that it is portable. Not everyplace needs a scientist, but most places need welders, plumbers, and electricians.
W| 9.29.11 @ 5:07PM
And a trade cannot be shipped to China.
emo| 9.30.11 @ 8:40AM
no, but it can be done by illegals
W| 9.30.11 @ 9:11AM
you do not have to hire them
W| 9.29.11 @ 6:05PM
The Plumbers union (not Nixon's plumbers) has a good apprenteship program that teaches you the trade, and then you get licensed and certified. And they cannot find enough men to join.
Drunken Sailor| 9.30.11 @ 12:41PM
Oddly enough Locksmiths have the same problem. We have several walk in Vaults at work and I can only find one guy within a hours drive that can change the combinations and re-key my doors. He has more business that he knows what to do with.
Douglas Fletcher | 9.29.11 @ 3:31PM
What the hell is a "creative"?
Al Adab| 9.29.11 @ 4:10PM
John my friend,
Missed you these last few days. See my 4:07 to Simon above and give us your thoughts on that debate. What about the relative value of Averroes, Avicenna and Maimonides?
Petronius| 9.30.11 @ 9:55AM
Me creditors deal not in Greek literature or philosophy. Greeks and "creatives" don't deal in reality. Both would be out of place in toto but for the fact that the ignorance, indolence, and incompetence of the latter affect the price of a gallon of regular.
Stefan Stackhouse| 9.29.11 @ 1:09PM
Several of you, as well as the article, have commented about the practicality or non-practicality of various college majors. I would suggest that students and their parents keep in mind that it will be increasingly rare for someone to avoid needing to make one or more career changes over the course of their working life. The world is just changing too fast to be able to guarantee many people that the field they initially train for is the one they will be able to work in all the way to retirement.
This being the case, to my way of thinking the best strategy for a lot of students will be to combine practicality with versatility. In this age of high technology, it would be foolish for anyone to graduate from college without having a good understanding of science (not just one, but several major disciplines). It will always be good for people to develop the strongest math skills that they possibly can. In this age of globalization, mastering at least one foreign language is essential, even if you don't major in it. Understanding how the economy and business works will be valuable, even if you don't major in those subjects. Good writing and speaking and critical thinking skills are always going to be valuable in almost any career. Learning some of the life lessons that history and literature have to teach us will be valuable, too, even if I couldn't recommend those as majors for any except the most passionately dedicated of students.
This is thus an argument for not making one's college years TOO highly specialized. Most colleges still have a general education requirement, and in many cases this has been allowed to shrink too much. At many colleges, students may be well advised to pursue a somewhat broader education than what is minimally required. I would also suggest that students consider selecting one of the broad, old-line disciplinary areas for their major rather than anything new, trendy, and highly specialized.
Slacker| 9.29.11 @ 1:14PM
It takes one to know one. Allow this slacker to clarify a few things for you nut busters. Most out of work grads are not voluntary slackers.
First to the posters chearleading science and engineering degrees: It isn't the lesbians with art degrees who are struggling. An engineering degrees no longer assure a good job. Don't believe what the "winning the future" jack offs tell you. There are currently too many engineers. When I graduated (1999) I could pick and choose. Today the prospects are entirely different.
While people tend to think of engineering jobs as stable, most are highly vulnerable to the overall business climate. Someone must take a financial risk to implement an engineer’s ideas. If the economy is not expanding, fewer things need to be designed and built. Why do you think so many of us despise liberalism?
Now for personal experience: We had to let our interns go but, I keep in contact with a few. These are smart people with structural engineering graduate degrees from good schools. They can’t find engineering jobs because there aren’t any.
This is a guild type profession. One works under a licensed engineer before sitting for the professional licensing exams. Without a “real” job the degree is all but useless. If a generation of engineering grads tending bar isn’t lost, what are they? (Hint: Drunk and bored.)
Finally in general: The baby boomers can't or will not retire. Experienced gen X’ers (like me) fill the available jobs, and the new grads are out of luck. What can be expected of an economy which isn’t creating jobs?
Simon Templar| 9.29.11 @ 3:23PM
Excellent points. You are not a slacker.
Douglas Fletcher | 9.29.11 @ 3:32PM
This was the moment.
Nathan| 9.29.11 @ 2:15PM
How many of you are Rick Perry supporters? Perry called people who oppose the "Dream Act" which isn't really about illegal alien children but only about whether their illegal alien parents pay in state or out of state tuition, HEARTLESS. The implication of that was by not supporting the Dream Act we are denying these illegal alien kids the ability to be in college and a chance for a better future.
Someone should point this and other articles like this to Governor Perry and then ask him if he still thinks opponents of the Dream Act are still heartless or if maybe all these illegal alien kids don't really need to be in college after all. Or if they do that perhaps their parents can pay out of state tuition like hundreds of thousands of American parents do every year when their kids go to schools in other states.
Joe D.| 9.29.11 @ 2:29PM
Well said Mr. Orlet. I came out with a marketable decree in Accounting years ago and had to start at the bottom. So, I just have a hard time shedding a tear for those spoiled children with no marketable degree from an over price college that most of us could not afford.
Simon Templar| 9.29.11 @ 3:08PM
The issue here is not whether you can or can not shed a tear for those spoiled children without marketable degrees. There are plenty of young engineers out of work in this nation.
I would not count on that counting degree to get you through the next thirty years. Your accounting tasks can very easily be shipped over to India with intenet capability (less taxes, no health care or Obamacare punishment fees, less labor regulation and cost) . Wake up and see the big picture before it is too late.
sean| 9.29.11 @ 3:05PM
My oldest got her teaching certificate and has been teaching for the past 5 years. Her husband put himself through college and is very successful. The middle one got a degree in publishing and works for a publisher. The youngest is studying criminal justice and plans to work in law enforcement. All of them got the same lesson from me. Find something you love and work hard and you'll be a success. I went to school on the GI bill and taught them that there are no free rides.
Simon Templar| 9.29.11 @ 3:22PM
That is just great. I am glad to have contributed to your GI Education through my taxes and am also grateful for your service to the nation.
It seems, however, that you do not understand that we have some serious institution and systemic problems in this nation that are making it more difficult to find something you love and work hard at it and be successful. If these issues are not adressed, you may even find your successful kids at a loss some day and most of what they have worked for worthless.
DaveS| 9.29.11 @ 4:46PM
I told my three to find something they love, and then make it happen. You gave yours good advice.
DG in GA| 9.29.11 @ 5:15PM
What if what they think they love is something stupid like Feminist Philosophy? Then your recent college grad ends up back in their old bedroom.
axbucxdu| 10.1.11 @ 11:21PM
Only if "they" decide to reopen those pod bay doors.
Dick Nome| 9.29.11 @ 3:27PM
A college education once had value and taught students something. Today, most of the schools of “higher learning” are indoctrination centers and purveyors of mind pablum. They crank out semi-literate skulls full of mush with such useless degrees as Sociology, Anthropology, Psychology, Black Studies, Women’s studies, Feminist Lit, Sports Management, and other trite and baseless drivel. Then when the kids graduate they think they are entitled to a high paying position at something that will satisfy all their needs. Unfortunately these degree programs offer nothing to the student and only jobs to the overpaid and self absorbed Grad students and professors who teach them.
Real life work experience is far more valuable. Going to school at night and getting a degree in something over time is far more productive than spending 4 years at study and wondering why you are there most of that time. Most of those kids have no idea what they are going to do when they graduate, if they do.
Getting a 4 year degree is not guarantee of anything and entitles you to nothing.
To many, learning a trade would have been far more useful for starters.
Douglas Fletcher | 9.29.11 @ 3:34PM
"indoctrination centers"
Isn't that the truth.
DaveS| 9.29.11 @ 4:45PM
'Why won't someone gimme a job?' is the lament. Sorry.
k962| 9.29.11 @ 4:27PM
They attend useless liberal arts courses and when graduating think they a "great thinkers" and are entitled to position that entitles them to La dolce Vita lifestyle! very gullible!!
DaveS| 9.29.11 @ 4:43PM
The marketplace rules. Let it be so always.
J.C.| 9.29.11 @ 4:49PM
Expensive specialized degrees are risky, risky.
Franco| 9.29.11 @ 5:04PM
I ended up with two mostly-useless history degrees before realizing that they were worthless, but somehow, after a relatively short period of semi-slackerdom (though gainfully employed as a temp for most of those years) wound up with a house, family, children, and a mortgage anyway. Then I went back to school a second time for a relatively useful degree which led to an actual job. There are a lot of dissapointments there but some very good luck made up for it. It's hard no matter what line you walk.
SF_Exile| 9.29.11 @ 5:39PM
Let's not forget the good old-fashioned snob factor: parents feel they've failed if their kids go to a trade school rather than a college or university. Somewhere along the way we as a society decided that working with our hands and having a true skill was somehow inferior to book-learning. You know, the stench of 'trade', and all.
My husband is an IT consultant. He's been one in various forms for the last 15 years. Before that he was in computer aided graphic design. Before that he was a general contractor and carpetlayer. He did not graduate from high school and he'd be the first to tell you. But what he was - and is - is someone who takes advantage of every opportunity that comes along. He's never been afraid of hard work. And taking a few risks. He has very little tolerance for the moaning and kvetching by some young college graduates who can't seem to believe that they actually have to start at the bottom of the ladder and earn that corner office and smokin' hot secretary. Ahh, the precious little snowflakes!
Michael| 9.29.11 @ 5:44PM
Brother, did you get it wrong with this one. We are not slackers. I have a history degree and a paralegal degree. I did everything I was suppose to do. Now where are those "careers" we heard about?
Douglas Fletcher | 9.29.11 @ 8:31PM
Have you applied at the history store?
Herb| 9.30.11 @ 8:13AM
"the history store"
Heh, heh!
Appleby| 9.30.11 @ 3:27PM
What kind of paralegal degree? Sports and entertainment law, or civil and estate law?
Augusta| 9.29.11 @ 6:21PM
They are the lost generation - because they're pampered miseducated idiots. Any real crisis would prompt a Lord of the Flies style reaction within 24 hours from these inept infants. They're unskilled, pro-establishment, entitled, sexually confused, spineless zombies with no clear moral sense and a skewed worldview. It goes beyond the usual naivete of youth - it's the product of the self-esteem and moral relativist movements that have poisoned the culture, the home and education. Ya know, Leftism.
Joe| 10.3.11 @ 1:40AM
Wow - first of all you just lost a reader.
Why so much vitriol for the "Lost Generation" as you call them? Hasn't your Baby Boomer generation taken enough from us? We have no hope for social security, no hope for well paying jobs, no hope for really anything, but being slaves to China, yet somehow WE are the inept ones. Somehow WE are the spineless, moral-less ones. Somehow WE are the lazy, selfish ones.
Sorry, that line just doesn't work anymore. The Baby Boomer generation was the WORST and MOST DESTRUCTIVE generation ever. They have done nothing, but RAPED my generation of any future. And you want to talk to me, to us, about skewed worldviews, about being spineless zombies? Augusta, I would tell you to go to hell, but I imagine living with 20 cats is already there. You probably have never had the chance to be sexually confused because a sane man would never get near you, as it sounds like you don't even know how to be a woman, but I digress.
Our generation is always trounced on because idiots like Augusta and the writer of this article have speaking posts. One thing is for sure, OUR generation would never have messed things up a quarter as much as the Baby Boomers. You are the ones who are SELF-ENTITLED, SPINELESS, UNSKILLED, and SKEWED IN YOUR WORLDVIEW. WE are the ones who will have to fix YOUR mess. One thing is for sure, it's time for my so called generation to take power. You weak grifters had your chance.
Dein| 9.29.11 @ 9:18PM
Is there a law that says there is supposed to be a job opening for every graduate in every field upon graduation?Does the law also forbid working in a field not related until an opportunity opens in the chosen field?
Dein| 9.29.11 @ 9:19PM
Is there a law that says there is supposed to be a job opening for every graduate in every field upon graduation?Does the law also forbid working in a field not related until an opportunity opens in the chosen field?
albert constantine jr.| 9.29.11 @ 11:27PM
Before anyone criticizes this generation as being too soft, please remember that some of those currently in or recently graduating college are that same cohort who after 9/11 showed up at the recruiter, took the oath, and then spent the next few years taking (and re-taking) Fallujah or dodging IEDs. By the way, 30 years ago when I walked out of the university with my Bachelor's Degree, nine days later I walked into the Reception Center at Marine Corps Officer Candidate School. They didn't care if I majored in Basket Weaving, Basket Ball or Basque Language studies, as long as I could take whatever they threw at me.
Jessie| 9.30.11 @ 3:17AM
I had a 33 ACT and a 1420 SAT (old style, 1979). I got a full tuition scholarship. I also was accepted to Wash U and Northwestern Universities (offered a chance to get a 3 year bachelor's at Northwestern), and was recruited by U of Chicago.
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Jessie| 9.30.11 @ 3:18AM
"... what do you consider a living wage" for someone fresh out of college with no practical experience?" $15,000 / yr.
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Jessie| 9.30.11 @ 3:18AM
"... what do you consider a living wage" for someone fresh out of college with no practical experience?" $15,000 / yr.
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emo| 9.30.11 @ 8:38AM
I think journalists focus on situations like the ones mentioned in the article because they fear the same will happen to them. Journalism is a dying field, so the Grad with a MA in Journalism from Columbia may find themselves unemployed. That journalists can relate to, not to the unemployed constructions worker.
Merrie| 9.30.11 @ 9:00AM
I graduated from Smith in the late 80's and this is not a new problem. It's just magnified by the current economic situation. When I was in college, our advisors told us it didn't matter what we majored in. Follow your bliss! You're graduating from an Ivy League school! Employers will be lined up throwing job offers at you while you're still in your cap and gown. Wasn't true then, isn't true now. But the fact that colleges are still promoting this crap says more about them than us.
I will admit I got an excellent education. Read the great works of literature. Studied foreign languages. Classical music. Poli sci. But, as valuable as a liberal arts education may be, it is not job training and was never intended to be.
Parents and students must question what exactly they expect out of college and how much are they willing to pay for it. If you have the money to send your kid to Harvard for 4 years to study philosophy and you think it's worth it just for the educational value then knock yourself out. If you're a working class family that's going to have to go thousands in debt but are hoping the career earning potential will repay itself, then be careful what your major is and maybe downgrade the school.
BTW - my husband went to a tech college for 2 years and only has an associate's degree. And he earns about 3 times what I do.
Buck Ofama| 10.1.11 @ 2:45AM
If you think education's expensive, try ignorance.