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High Spirits

Sensitive to the Holy Spirit

By from the September 2011 issue

Two life-changing experiences — in the public square.

The movement of the holy spirit is a controversial subject. Among some Pentecostalists, Charismatics, and Evangelists it happens as regularly as holy clockwork, flattening or elevating entire congregations as they become prostrate or airborne with strange body movements and words spoken in tongues. Other Christian denominations are more circumspect about what theologians call pneumatology.

I have an amusing memory of interviewing the late Cardinal Avery Dulles about a Holy Spirit episode in 1992 when he and Charles W. Colson were discussing the setting up of a committee that later became known as Evangelicals and Catholics Together. During this inaugural discussion Colson suddenly discerned the presence of the Holy Spirit. As a result he rushed across to Richard John Neuhaus, the eminent Catholic priest and editor of First Things, embraced him warmly, and declared, “Together we can do this! You are my brother!” When I asked Avery Dulles for his recollection of this pneumatological incident there was a long pause. Eventually the cardinal cautiously replied: “I am afraid I am not quite as sensitive to the movements of the Holy Spirit as Chuck Colson!”

For most of my spiritual life I have been closer to Catholic caution than evangelical exuberance. For decades I was, at best, an occasional member of the church-reticent wing of Anglicanism, far more frozen than chosen. But then, against all my instincts and inclinations, I did encounter a life-changing experience of the power of the Holy Spirit. Other such profound moments have occasionally followed. But this summer I was in a couple of utterly different gatherings, two weeks and two worlds apart, at which the Holy Spirit moved large audiences rather dramatically.

THE FIRST of these episodes took place in Nairobi in May at the Kenyan National Parliamentary Prayer Breakfast. I was the keynote speaker but my role was incidental. However, the timing and circumstances of the invitation were no coincidence.

Kenya is a tense country politically, perhaps on the edge of a precipice as it approaches next year’s election. The parliamentary elite is deeply mistrusted by the voters for a multitude of reasons. Many of its members owe their seats to electoral fraud. They pay themselves exorbitant salaries. A Kenyan member of Parliament’s annual pay is $160,000 — an outrageous sum for Africa, made worse by the poison of corruption and the assumption of impunity from due process of law. A darker shadow is cast by the memories of what happened at the last election. When certain party leaders found themselves dissatisfied by the widespread fraud at the polls, they launched their supporters into massacres that left more than 1,300 dead, 30,000 injured, and the country on the brink of civil war.

The International Criminal Court at The Hague has now summonsed but not yet indicted the politicians believed to be responsible for this slaughter. This has sent political Kenya into a time of tense waiting. When I got up to speak at the prayer breakfast you could have cut the atmosphere with a machete. This was because 80 percent of the audience (church people) believed the other 20 percent of the audience (MPs and ministers) ought to be in prison. So who better to address them, the organizers evidently thought, than an overseas cabinet minister who actually had been in prison?

Naturally I gave the speech my best shot, tackling some of the most obviously neuralgic issues such as impunity, corruption, contrition, and forgiveness. But the speaker was infinitely less important than the Spirit who descended in a most astonishing way on the proposer of the vote of thanks. He was Mwai Kibaki, the president of Kenya.

President Kibaki came to the podium looking and sounding every inch the patriarchal African leader. He is now in his eighties, with only a few more months in office before his final term expires. He began with carefully scripted clichés about the state of the nation and the recovery of the economy. But then he put his notes aside and took off into a soaring flight of inspired spiritual oratory. Picking up the themes of the prayer breakfast he passionately appealed for an end to corruption and the beginning of a new era of national godliness. The 1,000-strong audience was visibly moved. They had expected to be bored by the usual anodyne platitudes delivered in votes of thanks on such occasions. Instead they were stirred by a national leader on fire with what many believed was the power of the Holy Spirit. Even the most skeptical journalists seemed to agree that something extraordinary had happened. As the headline in the next day’s largest national newspaper trumpeted: PRESIDENT DECLARES — GOD IS THE ANSWER.

CHARLES W. COLSON has believed that God is the answer ever since his dramatic conversion in the middle of Watergate in 1973. At that time his critics poured cynicism on him by the bucketful. Thirty-eight years later, the cynics are largely silent. Sometimes (as in the case of the former CBS commentator Tom Braden) they sing the praises of the White House aide they loved to hate. This is because the ministry Colson founded, Prison Fellowship, has become one of the most influential and international Christian movements in the world.

Next month Chuck Colson will be celebrating his 80th birthday. He has probably delivered well over 20,000 evangelistic addresses to PF audiences, many of them in prisons. But I doubt he has ever given a finer or more Holy Spirit-inspired oration than his June address to the quadrennial Convocation of Prison Fellowship International in Toronto.

Since Colson was speaking extempore, there is no verbatim record of his remarks, which focused on the theme of man’s justice, God’s justice, and justification by faith. In any case, the lasting impression was not about what he said but what happened to the huge audience drawn from 135 countries.

Many of the delegates were tired from their international travels and did not have access to interpreters. But they rose in their seats to cheer and be cheered by the dramatic intensity of Colson’s message, which seemed to come from some higher force above those of us listening. It felt like St. Paul’s exhortation to the Romans to be “aglow with the Spirit, serving the Lord” (Romans 12:11). Those last three words kept our feet on the ground, for the practical disciplines of service to Christ through prison ministry are an anchor that prevents genuine spiritual enthusiasm from turning into unreal charismatic fireworks.

That said, many seasoned participants at the PFI Convocation felt that they had witnessed the power of the Holy Spirit surging through the conference hall when Colson was speaking. It was a profound experience, and for me a second summer reminder that God keeps on moving in mysterious ways to perform His wonders — whether in Nairobi or in Toronto. 

About the Author

Jonathan Aitken, The American Spectator’s High Spirits columnist, is most recently author of John Newton: From Disgrace to Amazing Grace (Crossway Books). His biographies include Charles W. Colson: A Life Redeemed (Doubleday) and Nixon: A Life, now available in a new paperback edition (Regnery).

Letter to the Editor View all comments (228) |

W| 9.28.11 @ 7:07AM

Aitken has written probably the best biography of Richard Nixon, "Richard Nixon, A Life," and Colson's autobiography "Born Again" is terrific.

donserge| 9.28.11 @ 8:12AM

The Bible says that one receives the Holy Spirit when one believes in their heart and mind on the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ. Additional 'manifestations' are attributable to emotion or individual, theological or church/denominational interpretation.

Ryan| 9.28.11 @ 9:01AM

Pretty much. Too much is attributed to the movement of the Holy Spirit which is actually mass emotion.

The Spirit is much more than emotional outburst, of mass frenetic frenzy. When we see the lives of people change - whether gradual or overnight - that's the Holy Spirit. He doesn't have to cause an emotional change...though I think that more people maybe let Him.

Brian B| 9.28.11 @ 12:28PM

To suggest that anyone experiencing the manifestations of the Spirit is simply engaging in emotionalism or mass frenzy is to at once conflate the showmanship of phony TV evangelists with the innumerable private genuine experiences of millions of believers and to ignore the point of Mr. Aikman's piece.
If we don't believe something will happen to us and it doesn't, should the first assumption be that it therefore happens to no one else who does believe or that perhaps our unbelief precludes our experiencing it?
A life time of walking around with my eyes closed shouldn't lead me to the belief that no one else has ever experienced a rainbow or a sunset.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 12:42PM

Well said.

Ryan| 9.28.11 @ 12:52PM

I don't necessarily disagree - my above post is more of a warning than anything else. It's just that we need to be careful in believing that an experience with the Holy Spirity must be "felt" for it to be real. He doesn't work because of our faith - our faith works because of Him.

Tina B| 9.28.11 @ 8:50AM

I love Chuck Colson, and have ever since reading his bio just after it came out. I was a grad of Catholic schools and prayed to Jesus, Mary, God the Father, any Saints who were patrons of something or the other, and was basically scared of the Godhead.

Maybe, like many of us, this was because the only father I knew was a tough authoritarian type who scared me a bit also. Now the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the triune Godhead, seemed very pacifistic, so I wasn't scared of it, or him, or the genderless Spirit I understood "it" to be. Then I began reading the Bible for myself.

I was about 20 when I began attending services at Loyola University, Los Angeles, because I was seeking God and that was my first step out of the box. Loyola's worship services were "Catholic Charismatic" events which consisted of prayer, music, worship of Jesus, through His Holy Spirit, no more mention of praying to saints or Mary, Christ's mother, and no mention of the papacy.

In actual fact it was Pope John XXIII, at least that's what he was called, who embraced this new wave in the church of Rome. However, over time, I ended up leaving Catholicism and making my way through the Scriptures on my own, and embracing my Savior in His Word and in His Way.

I joined various congregations in the following 40 years, among them Christian Missionary Alliance, Methodists and Presbyterians. Now I worship with my daughter's congregation, a very lively and Holy Spirit encouraged non-denom church. The Vine Church is pastored by a wonderful young minister, whose son I happened to teach and who has led many of my ex-students to a beautiful ralationship with Christ and service to each other in His Name. Talking the talk and walking the walk.

Just like Colson has done since his conversion to Jesus. And Chuck's book helped me get there, to a relationship with the triune God, through His Word and Spirit, and the life and death of His Son, who is also God, Jesus Christ.

I still listen to Colson's radio show, Breakpoint, and read his books. God bless him, and you, Mr. Aitken, and now I must pick up some of your books as well.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 12:58PM

Yea Tina! Excellent testimonial.
I too love Chuck Colson, and in fact it was from reading his Scriptural references concerning the death penalty several years ago that I changed my mind about, and am now in favor of it.

Interesting to note the snub he got from the Catholic whom he hugged. That is typical, isn't it though?

Catholics are trained to believe that only THEY have the ONLY "true church", like any typical cult trains their flock.

I too was born into a Catholic family, one that really didn't practice it except for when my French Grandma came to visit. Me and my sister used to dread it because we knew we had to go and play church on Sunday.
I always despised the solemn assembly, the coldness of the clergy, and the prayers by rote.

I rejected it by the time I was old enough to realize it had not the power to hold or influence me.

At age 19 is when I met some genuine Bible believing Christians who brought me the gospel of Jesus Christ, and I kneeled to the ground, literally, and asked Him for the forgiveness of my sins, and He filled me with His Spirit, and I gave my life to Him.

The difference between Catholicism and Christianity is that Catholicism has not the doctrine of Jesus Christ. Catholics follow the Pope, and his teachings.
Christians follow the Words of the God of the Bible.

"Everyone transgressing and not abiding
in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.
The one abiding in the doctrine of Christ,
this one has the Father and the Son.
If anyone comes to you and does not
bear this doctrine, do not receive him into
the house, and do not speak a greeting to
him.
For the one speaking a greeting shares
in his evil works." 2 Jn. 1:9-11.

Satan| 9.28.11 @ 1:31PM

This is the Margie I love.!!! Never pass up the chance to stir animosity, divisions, and you lie so well Margie!!!! Love the part about Grandma and playing church, couldn't do better myself. Everybody was nice till you jumped in...great work!!!

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 1:44PM

You should know, being that you are Satan~ that Christians are not NICE!

We are willing to die for the testimony of Jesus Christ, and accept the sheer hatred heaped upon us for standing on the WRITTEN WORDS of the God of the Bible.

Now, get behind me, little critter. Your days are numbered, anyway.
LOL.

Satan| 9.28.11 @ 1:55PM

I'm always behind you Margie!!! You're my favorite.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 2:00PM

You wish.

Satan| 9.28.11 @ 3:38PM

Love the way you threw Grandma and your parents under the bus!!!

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 3:44PM

Heh, very good lies from the Father of lies! Jn. 8:44.

Dan| 9.28.11 @ 1:45PM

Charles Colson would be embarrased by Margie. He is a true Christian. Margie is just a bigot. She has been described on this site by most as a plain bigot repeating the same bigotry daily.

Margie: send a collection of your comments to Mr. Colson and see what he thinks of your cult.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 2:14PM

"
"Constantly we hear of proposals for union, and truly these are
welcome where mere technical matters divide true Christians;
but what is the use of pretending to create union where there
can be none? There is another matter which needs to be thought
of as well as union, and that is TRUTH. To part with truth to show
charity is to betray our Lord with a kiss."

Charles Haddon Spurgeon, The Sword and the Trowel, February 1887.

Bill S| 9.28.11 @ 5:04PM

Margie speaks for a lot of recovering Catholics. People who were mislead. People who thought they were saved simply because they believed in God and went to church. Only to find out later that salvation was a free gift we have to consciously accept. We have to accept Jesus as Lord and do the things the Bible commands. You can't be a Christian and still be a Catholic. The two things are mutually exclusive.

irish19| 9.28.11 @ 5:31PM

No, they're not. Believing that Genesis constitutes natural history does not make you a Christian. It makes you foolish.
Using the term papist to describe Catholics doesn't make you a Christian. It shows you to be a bigot.
I could go on, but it's time to make dinner.
And for all you Margies out there smug in their notions of being saved and the Catholic Church as the Whore of Babylon, consider this.
"Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church." Benedict XVI (B-16 for short) is the legitimate heir of St. Peter. Nothing any of you can say can change that. Deus vult!

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 7:09PM

So, sadly~ to you, believing that God's Own Words are Truth makes you foolish!

That is indeed how Satan himself has trained you, irish. I am sorry to hear this is what you actually believe, and it shows your need for true repentance to get rid of the Catholic doctrine of dead works and come into a genuine spiritual relationship to serve the Living God.

And Papist is someone who follows the teachings of the Pope, instead of Christ.
It's a fact.

And bigots are what Catholic Papists call those of us who reject the false teachings of the Cult of Catholicism, and revere every Word of God.

"Every Word of God proves true; He is a Shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His Words, lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar." Prov. 30:5 & 6.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 7:11PM

Sorry irish, but Popey is a fraud. He is NOTHING but a man who is living an utter and complete lie, and needs to repent.

There is no such thing as Popery in the Bible.
Nothing what so ever.
And nothing you say can change that truth.

irish19| 9.28.11 @ 11:24PM

Where to begin? I read those screeds and had to just shake my head.
As you have said, there are none so blind as those who will not see.
BTW, consider that the Pharisees, Scribes, and Saducees were inordinately fond of using scriptural quotes to back up their self-centeredness and inherent evil.
Now who does that remind me of? Whited sepulchre much?
We're done now.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 2:07PM

Well, irish, Jesus is shaking His Head at you for your unbelief.
You are wrong, and I hope you repent before you die.

"He who does not love Me does not keep My Words; and the Word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's Who sent Me." Jn. 14:24.

Here is a sad example of what Catholicism trains a human being to believe~ that the Scriptures are a fairy Tale, and anyone who believes in them is not only not a Christian, but a hypocrite.

irish19| 9.29.11 @ 3:49PM

Wrong as usual. Just because most Catholics understand that the seven days of Genesis are not seven actual 24 hr. days hardly equates to our treating all of Scripture as a fairy tale. That notion is a product of Bible-thumping bigots and hymn-singing hypocrites seeking to discredit Catholicism.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 4:10PM

irish,
YOUR bigotry is showing.
BIG TIME.
Furthermore, it is YOU who said:
"Believing that Genesis constitutes natural history does not make you a Christian. It makes you foolish."
You said nothing about 7 days, sir.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 5:44PM

p.s. irish~

God, in Genesis explains it like this:

"God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day." Gen. 1:5.

And like this:

"And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day." Gen. 1:8.

And like this:

"And there was evening and there was morning, a third day." Gen. 1:13.

And...

"And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day." Gen. 1:9.

And....

"And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day." Gen. 1:23.

And...

"And God saw everything that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day." Gen. 1:38.

irish19| 9.29.11 @ 6:04PM

And on the seventh day He rested. Seven days. Count 'em.
That absolutely does not negate what I said.
Here's one for you. How old do you believe the earth is?

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 11:16PM

Excuse me? You were the one who said to believe that God created everything in in our time (each day as a day), was wrong:

" Just because most Catholics understand that the seven days of Genesis are not seven actual 24 hr. days..."

And again, I presented the Scripture to you.
Now what are you saying?

You are making no sense.

Joseph| 9.28.11 @ 7:50PM

Irish,
Don't waste your time trying to reason in a rational manner with someone who is not rational. Margie is obsessed with Catholics and full of hate. It is best to just laugh and mock her because she cannot reason. She believes what she believes and everyone who disagrees is a liar, punk, papist. That is why we call her the Mullah.

BobS| 9.28.11 @ 6:21PM

Another voice from the trailer park.

BobS| 9.28.11 @ 6:22PM

That is for my cousin BillS

Joseph| 9.28.11 @ 3:49PM

TinaB,
Read Margie on Colson.
You still think she is a Christian?

W| 9.28.11 @ 7:42PM

Tina,
Do you like Colson's "How Now Shall We Live."

Clint| 9.28.11 @ 8:52AM

Where's Hater Margie? And Dr. Reich?

Uh Oh! This Wasn't About Catholics, So They Decided Not To Post.

Israel Firster| 9.28.11 @ 9:22AM

I like to Pretend Post as Clint, to start trouble.

hee,hee

JohnC| 9.28.11 @ 8:52AM

The beauty of experiencing the Holy Spirit is that the living God is now present (Spirit of Jesus) in one’s life and belief is no longer intellectual.

The purpose of the Spirit is to enlighten and gradually sanctify the faithful, thus over time one’s affection for vice diminishes and love for virtue increases -- one is being spiritually born again and saved from their innate corporeal nature. New believers need to be taught that they must continually work in conjunction with the power of the Spirit to change their self-centered and sinful behavior -- it takes two to tango.

The Apostles and the early Church leaders stressed this sound doctrine but today few churches do, instead they teach a one-time salvation regardless how you lead your life. Faith only saves if it a living faith and that means frequently examining our conscience and then asking God to help us in those areas in our life that we need to change.

Ryan| 9.28.11 @ 9:05AM

Right almost up until the last paragraph, which is a common misconception of Perseverance of the Saints.

It's actually a problem among multiple denominations, but the idea that you can live your life how you want is NOT preached from conservative pulpits.

Catholicism tends to the idea that I can do what I want and confess it; the other side is that my salvation is assured, and I can do what I want because I'm saved anyway. Both are grevous errors and against what you are right about - the idea that justification is a one-time event, and sanctification is a process.

I think the one thing that you are leaving out is that the ENTIRE process is God-led. He justifies us, He sanctifies us, He glorifies us.

David T| 9.28.11 @ 10:22AM

Ryan--Catholics are not taught that they can do what they want as long as they confess their sins, nor is there such a tendency among the faithful. Regular confession of our sins is not hypocrisy, but a means of growing in grace (see 1 John 1:9). The true teaching of the Church with respect to sin is found in paragraph 1874 of the Catechism:
"To choose deliberately - that is, both knowing it and willing it - something gravely contrary to the divine law and to the ultimate end of man is to commit a mortal sin. This destroys in us the charity without which eternal beatitude is impossible. Unrepented, it brings eternal death."

Ryan| 9.28.11 @ 11:38AM

I probably needed a clarification of what is preached from the pulpit and what is done in practice. The teaching of regular confession is not hypocrisy, but how people treat it may be.

Usually the faithful who understand the doctrine properly (idealists, more or less) may be blind as to how the group tends to treat the doctrine - the majority group who don't attend every Sunday, and who don't confess regularly (or use confession as a get-out-of-jail free card). Ask your priest how often he sees the same people for the same sins, or who only confesses once a year and if people really understand the doctrine.

Craig Roberts| 9.28.11 @ 11:51AM

What's the point of saying (essentially) "most Catholics don't understand their own Church"? It doesn't invalidate anything. If half of all students flunk calculus it just shows that calculus is demanding.

Ryan| 9.28.11 @ 12:54PM

Mostly to point out to the idealists that it's just sort of what happens when you have nominal churchgoers - they don't dive in and grasp what is necessary.

irish19| 9.28.11 @ 5:34PM

Correct. The key is not confession but true repentance and a sincere effort to do better.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 3:16PM

Actually, irish, no.
The Bible (God's Own Words) say that you MUST repent~ and BELIEVE in the Gospel of God!
Salvation is NOT based on works, as your Religion teaches you.

"Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the Kingdom of God is at hand; repent, and believe in the gospel." Mk. 1:14 & 15.

atheist| 9.29.11 @ 3:38PM

Margie
How do you know that the Bible is God's own words.

irish19| 9.29.11 @ 3:51PM

Actually, Margie, yes. I believe I mentioned repentance.
Are good works not important in your religion? They are in mine. Think Good Samaritan.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 4:25PM

irish,
My point was to the "do better" portion of your post.
The Bible (God's Own Words) says no one is good but God alone. Mk. 10:18, Lk. 18:19, Ps. 14:3, Ps: 53:3.
Religion in general teaches Salvation by works, but God says that our FAITH is reckoned to us as righteousness!

"And to one who does not work but trusts Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness." Rom. 4:5.
The point is: Doing good things isn't what saves us.
BELIEVING the Gospel of God does.

If you have a BIBLE, do a word search about Belief, DEAD works, Gospel, Righteousness, Salvation, Justification.

Or go here and type in the word you want, and then learn what God thinks. It will bring up every verse in the entire Bible containing the word you type in the search bar.

You can learn and get fed spiritually while doing so:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/

As to good works, they are already made for us to walk in. planned by God before the foundation of the world was even formed.. but they are not HOW we are saved:

"For by Grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God--
not because of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Eph. 2:8-10.

irish19| 9.29.11 @ 6:07PM

The point is that not doing them can get you unsaved.
What is the verse about having faith that can move mountains, but have not love.
Once again, the good Samaritan vs. the Pharisee and the Levite.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 7:27PM

Well, I tried.
All you can do is obfuscate and say I'm a Pharisee for presenting the Scriptures, in order to wake you up.
You are just doing what you're destined to do.
LIE.
LOVE is what I've done here, towards you.
Like a good Catholic~ you turn it into perversion.

Craig Roberts| 9.28.11 @ 11:35AM

Confession requires a 'purpose of amendment' to be valid. No informed Catholic thinks it's a get out of jail free card. Didn't you watch The Sapranos?

Ryan| 9.28.11 @ 11:42AM

See above post about what is essentially theory and practice.

PJ| 9.28.11 @ 9:40AM

It would seem that the Holy Spirit was present at the 3 events described in this essay.

Since 1973 Chuck Colson has been consistently charitable to those who esp need it, prisoners, I would think the Holy Spirit is working through him.

The Kenyan conference just proves that God can talk to us through imperfect persons.

I would like to add that Satan has the power to manipulate our senses & emotions. We have to always discern when we are moved emotionally by God or Satan.

ShortNSweet| 9.28.11 @ 10:26AM

The Holy Spirit, is the teacher, the comforter, the very prescence of God the Father, and God the Son, in the lives of born again believers. We are individuals, and very unique in emotions, and feelings, and/or the lack thereof. It is imparative that men don't forget that God knows who we are, and it is for His purpose and will that we are atuned to, or not, to His Holy Spirit. Some people are very emotional and others have little emotion at all. God knows all these things. He uses us for His purpose. Likewise, some men can be used, others probably not.

I have asked God very specific and direct things, and there have been times when, I know more finished talking to God about this thing, that He by His Holy Spirit had answered me. Not emotional at all, yet very profound, and very straight-forward He answered me. There have, on the other hand, been times when I talked to God about something, and He waited. Not that He didn't answer, but that by His time, and His knowledge of me, and His purpose, He waited. Again, it is for His will and purpose, not ours.

God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. His Spirit, is every bit as amazing, and lovely as His Son, and He....They ARE three in one. The Spirit moves, and people who are atuned to Him...know it!

God bless you Mr. Aitken. Great article. Thanks

JohnC| 9.28.11 @ 10:26AM

Ryan

Catholics confess their sins to a priest rather then to the Lord and this is a misguided doctrine, although many sincere Catholics do both and these are brethren-in -Christ and saved. I am not Catholic.

I do agree that most conservative churches do not overtly say that you can live your life as you want, but they imply this by mistakenly stating that salvation is assured by faith (belief) alone and it is a one time event -- the Apostle James makes it clear that we need a living faith (sanctification) and Paul warns us to be vigilant to the end of our lives. Most evangelical churches generally put the critical born again process of sanctification on the back burner.

I may have not been clear on that we need to periodically examine our conscience and ask God to help us overcome our self-centered and sinful habits -- this is God-led. In fact, the Spirit continually convicts (enlightens) us of our wrong behavior but we must then exercise our will to resist temptation -- knowing that the Spirit gives us power to overcome it (realizing that this may require a sustained effort as we stumble).

It is a partnership with the Lord for life but He needs our will.

Ryan| 9.28.11 @ 11:41AM

I think that the problem that occurs is the lack of education on justification by faith (the act) and sanctification (the process). Two separate, yet linked matters - the second cannot happen without the first.

irish19| 9.28.11 @ 5:38PM

It is not misguided doctrine, as Jesus conferred on the apostles/disciples the power to forgive sins. As the apostles are the forerunners of the priesthood, the power is conferred on their successors-or so Catholics understand. Seems pretty doctrinally sound to me.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 6:59PM

It isn't biblical, it's Catholic bunk.
There is no such thing as a physical succession in the Bible to a "priesthood."

If you loved Jesus, you would be reading and believing His Words, instead of lies and deceit.

"He who does not love Me does not keep My Words; and the Word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me." Jn. 14:24.

Joseph| 9.28.11 @ 7:53PM

Nobody can disagree with the Mullah.

You are wrong. We call you a bigot because your are a bigot. To compare your bigotry with blacks called the N word is a new low even for you.

But keep going, you reach new lows every day.

irish19| 9.29.11 @ 12:31AM

"What sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them. What sins you shall retain, they are retained."
Biblical.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 2:08PM

So then, one doesn't need Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins?

atheist| 9.29.11 @ 3:39PM

How does Jesus forgive sins?

irish19| 9.29.11 @ 3:54PM

You still refuse to get it. The Resurrected Christ is the foundation of the Catholic Faith.
I give you a quote from right out of the gospel (I can look up the exact passage if it would make you feel better), and you try to twist it to fit your own bigoted beliefs.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 4:26PM

My "bigoted belief" is in the Word of God, not a Religion.
Very snooty, my man.

Joseph| 9.29.11 @ 5:43PM

Irish,
You don't understand. You have to agree with Margie or else you are a liar, and if you are really bad, then a blatant liar, and if you still don't agree then a punk.
In other words, you are wasting your time trying to reason with her. Look at Nick's back and forth.

Ken (Old Texican)| 9.28.11 @ 11:18AM

Good thoughts, folks.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 1:06PM

"Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Through Him we have obtained access to this Grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in our hope of sharing the Glory of God." Rom. 5:1 & 2.

Just TRY and pick that apart.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 1:12PM

P.S. Would that our OWN President would see fit to declare what that national newspaper's headline did:

"PRESIDENT DECLARES -- GOD IS THE ANSWER."

Mister Grady| 9.28.11 @ 2:27PM

Chuck Colson can be easily discarded as a serious Christian on account of his ecumenical gestures - not to mention his self-generating emotional impulses that he likes to advertise as being of the Holy Spirit.

Sorry Chuck, but if you think you've received direct word from the Holy Spirit that contradicts the clear Biblical teachings against ecumenicism, then you cannot be taken any more seriously than when the Blues Brothers say, "We're on a mission from God."

I take no pleasure in saying this, but Pentecostals, Charismatics, and other hyper-emotional sects are, quite frankly, nuts.

Ryan| 9.28.11 @ 2:45PM

If that is the case, then how is the promise made to Abraham about his children accomplished?

Sorry, I've just known too many Christians who run the entire gamut of "frozen chosen" to "hyper-emotional" that all proclaim that faith in Christ as the only way we can be made right with God.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 2:51PM

Sorry, here's the link to Ratzinger's babble.

They have never repented from their false teachings, and still consider the Catholic church the ONLY true church, and STILL condemn the reading of Scripture on one's own.

This is what the vile Papacy used to put Christians to death and subject them to torture for six centuries.

Chuck Colson must be losing his mind to unite with Satan himself!

http://www.vatican.va/roman_cu.....us_en.html

RCV| 9.28.11 @ 3:45PM

...and you consider your beliefs to be the only truth as well.

I don't know of any contemporary Catholic authority who "condemns" reading scripture on your own. But Christian worship was intended to be a collective experience. Saint Paul didn't go around organizing churches for no reason. God wants humans to be connected to and caring for one another.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 3:46PM

Read the link, you lying punk.

RCV| 9.28.11 @ 4:03PM

I did read it, Margie. And you really ought to clean up your foul mouth. It's not lady-like, and it drives people from Christ, because they mistake you for a real Christian.

irish19| 9.28.11 @ 5:40PM

"they mistake you for a real Christian."
Nope.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 6:54PM

RCV,

"A lying tongue hates its victims, and a flattering mouth works ruin." Prov. 26:28.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 7:31PM

You're going to lecture ME? LOL.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 7:41PM

"lady-like..." blah blah blah.

Listen to me you despicable little twerp:

You liars have one special way you avoid the truth that any Christian brings to the light in order to expose the vileness of Catholicism:

Attack personally the messenger!

Well, too bad because I am stronger than ever and armed with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Since you once again side with the Devil, I will post where Popey Boy stated in 2002 or so:

"The roots of these problems are to be found in certain presuppositions of both a philosophical and theological nature.... finally, the tendency to read and to interpret Sacred Scripture outside the Tradition and Magisterium of the Church."

This is a lie from Satan himself.
The same one they practiced for the 600 centuries that they put to death Bible believing Christians who committed the "crime" of doing just that~ reading the Bible on their own.

It's history darlin', you just try to revise it, like the good brother to the Devil of a liar that you are.
Obama would be so proud of you!

Lillith| 9.28.11 @ 11:12PM

If I was an unbeliever and came across this attitude of a believer, I would say that Christians are rude and full of hate. There seems to be no love, charity or forgiveness that Christians are suppose to have for one another. No wonder so many young people turn away -- it is ugly, not Christ's love. 'Love one another as I have loved you"; 'forgive your brother not 7 times but 70x7".

irish19| 9.28.11 @ 11:29PM

Excellent comment!

Joseph| 9.29.11 @ 12:18PM

Lilith
Just because one calls herself a Christian doesn't mean she is a Christian. Judge by the content of her message.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 2:10PM

Repent, Troll, and believe in the LORD Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.

Then get back to us about how righteous you are compared to the rest of us.

Joseph| 9.29.11 @ 5:45PM

Margie,
But you don't believe in the divinity of Jesus. RCV has asked you countless times and you will not say yes or no. Why can't you just say yes?

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 7:33PM

"...and you consider your beliefs to be the only truth as well."

Oh no deceitful one: I consider every Word of God to be Truth.

YOU DO NOT!

Repent, you fraud!

RCV| 9.28.11 @ 10:28PM

No, I consider every word of GOD to be true. It's just I'm able to use the brain he gave me to know what is and what is not His word. And, unlike you, I also know that Jesus Christ IS God, you charlatan.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 2:11PM

RCV,

You have openly said here that you do NOT believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God.

You also proclaim that Homosexuality isn't Sin.

Charlatan?
LOL!
You're a blatant liar and you slap the Lord Jesus Christ in the face!

atheist| 9.29.11 @ 3:40PM

How do you know that the Bible is the inerrant word of God?

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 6:10PM

atheist,

"Jesus answered and said to him, Truly,
truly, I say to you, If one is not generated
from above, he is not able to see the Kingdom
of God." Jn. 3:3.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 3:24PM

RCV: YOU ARE BUSTED: LIAR!

RCV| 9.12.10 @ 1:41PM

Margie: the basic difference between our theological views stems from our different understandings of the Bible. You believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God Himself. I don't. My studies over my life teach me that the Bible is a collection of very diverse works: letters, love poems, narratives on the life of Christ, proverbial sayings, Jewish history narratives, prayers TO God. What they have in common is that they were inspired by men and women's yearnings to know God. They were written by human beings. I don't worship a book. That would be idolatry. There is much in the Bible that is just plain wrong, about astronomy, about history, about biology. Human beings are fallible; they get things wrong. Their writings are infused with errors, and with their own ignorant cultural prejudices. I worship God, our Creator, and no one else. I believe with all my being that our Creator was manifest in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. The narratives of his life, resurrection and teachings as related in the Gospels written by his followers after his death inform me of his view of the world and how we should live our lives.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 4:28PM

RCV is BUSTED some more:

RCV| 9.13.10 @ 4:36PM

Gee, thanks for the validation, Nick. I'm sorry if you and I don't see eye to eye on the Bible. It may all be inspired, but it is all translated and written by men, fallible men. It is not inerrant. It has taken me many years to come to that realization, using the brain God gave me, and the discernment given through prayer and study. I believe in God, not in men, none of whom are infallible, including the Holy Father in Rome, to whom I nonetheless look for guidance and wisdom.

REPENT~ LIAR!!!

Margie| 9.30.11 @ 8:07PM

What happened to RCV~ the lying snake?

Joseph| 9.28.11 @ 3:46PM

Margie,
You forgot to say that 50,000,000 million people were killed by the Papacy.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 12:28AM

Margie,

"[...] and STILL condemn the reading of Scripture on one's own."

You know this is not true, and yet, you keep writing it. The Catholic Church has always encouraged those who had the means to read the Sacred Scriptures. Here's a link:

http://www.catholicapologetics.....eading.htm

"I too love Chuck Colson [...]" - @ 12:58PM
"Chuck Colson must be losing his mind to unite with Satan himself!" - @ 2:51PM

Didn't take you too long to throw Mr. Colson under the bus, huh? It's getting crowded under there, along with Mr. Job, Mr. Testa, and Sinead O'Conner! Ha-ha!
God Bless!

p.s. I'm glad to see that you're reading the Vatican website. Good for you.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 2:14PM

I simply posted from the above link from the Pope's own writing, Nick.

Wow! What a disingenuous liar you are to try and present me as same!

Also, concerning Colson~ I did no such thing.
And besides, the TRUTH is Whom I serve first.

I'm not a lying Papist like yourself, whose "duty" is to the Father of lies, Nick.

So, stuff it.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 3:34PM

Margie,

"I simply posted from the above link from the Pope's own writing, Nick."

Show me where, exactly, the Pope condemned "the reading of Scripture on one's own"?

Plus, I don't lie. It is against God's Eighth Commandment.
I still love ya'.
God Bless!

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 4:29PM

What you present isn't love, Nick.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 5:23PM

Margie,

You didn't answer my question.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 5:37PM

I certainly did.
READ.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 6:30PM

Margie,

I have read. There is no condemnation for reading the Sacred Scriptures. There never has been, in all of the Church's history. This is a canard started by anti-Catholics, over four and a half centuries ago.

You can't provide a quote, because Pope Benedict XVI (then Cardinal Ratzinger) never wrote anything close to what you claim he did. You need to stick with facts, not anti-Catholic propaganda.
God Bless!

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 11:26PM

You're a liar, Nick. I posted the very excerpt here.
READ,

Nick| 9.30.11 @ 12:47AM

Margie,

Again, I do not lie.
If you are referring to this quote that you posted, from Dominus Iesus: "The roots of these problems are to be found in certain presuppositions of both a philosophical and theological nature.... finally, the tendency to read and to interpret Sacred Scripture outside the Tradition and Magisterium of the Church", you are seeing things that are not there. There is absolutely NO prohibition from reading the Scriptures in that quote.

In fact, that quote is ripped totally out of context. I doubt that you read all of Dominus Iesus, but, I hope that you do someday. There are a whole bunch of words in between those ellipses. READ them!

Whatever anti-Catholic website provided you with this incomplete and misleading excerpt, is deceiving you. Learn the truth, READ the whole document.
God Bless!

Mister Grady| 9.28.11 @ 4:57PM

You don't have to put hyper-emotional in square quotes. I know self-generating hyper-emotional and crowd psychology nonsense when I see it. It is real.

As for the rest of your post, it doesn't make a single, solitary bit of sense. Non sequitur, bit time.

Mister Grady| 9.28.11 @ 5:00PM

Above post is in response to Ryan (2:45 PM).

Ryan| 9.29.11 @ 12:31PM

Actually, it isn't. If those other Christians are "nuts," and not Christians, then there is an issue with the promise God made to Abraham about his children.

We have to be careful about who we believe are unsaved, because by doing so we disbelieve God's Word as to that promise.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 2:47PM

Well said. I was just doing some reading and wow.
I didn't know that Colson is a part of this ecumenical garbage.

Like the sneaky Communists, the Papacy will never be interested in "uniting" with biblical Christianity.

Check this out:

Letter to the Editor

Dear Brian,

Sequence of events relating to ECT, ECT II, Dominus Jesus, RC Pedophilia, Harry Potter

1. Watergate felon Chuck Colson wins the John Templeton prize for creating the Evangelical and Catholics Together Agreement in 1994. He is awarded $1M.

2. ECT II comes out and just before a strategic word is changed having to do with salvation alone minus salvation plus RC doctrine and membership, Rome pulls out.

3. In the fall of 2000 Rome issues the Dominus Jesus edict: On September 5th 2000, the Roman Catholic document "DOMINUS IESUS" [1] (DI) was issued by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. [2] Carrying the full authority of an official Vatican decree, it declares the Roman Catholic Church to be the only "instrument for the salvation of all humanity." DI has been "ratified and confirmed" by "The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II." [3] Even Roman Catholic priests are alarmed by DI.

Rome's link to her Dominus Jesus doc:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_cu.....c_con_cfai th_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 3:06PM

That was to Mr. Grady, the Christian.

Joseph| 9.28.11 @ 3:44PM

You are right, Margie, a conspiracy, and you are the only one who discovered it.

Joseph| 9.28.11 @ 3:43PM

This is a tough choice. Do we believe Mr. Colson, author of numerous well-received books, a true Christian, has devoted his life to helping prisoners, and others, or:

Do we believe Margie a/k/a Mister Grady, known as the Mullah, who calls everyone a liar, punk, and does her best every day to spew her hate and bigotry.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 3:46PM

I'm not Grady, you fool.
And furthermore, Christians believe every Word of God, not anything less.
We know a Great LORD when we see Him!

RCV| 9.28.11 @ 3:49PM

But don't recognize GOD when you see him. As John siad, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ...And the Word became flesh, and lived among us ...". But, "He was in the world ... yet the world did not know Him." Some people still don't.

Joseph| 9.28.11 @ 3:50PM

Is Mister Grady one of your personalities? Take your meds.

Mister Grady| 9.28.11 @ 5:12PM

Margie, at this point I think it might be best to ignore the obtuse person who keeps insisting that you and I are one and the same. He/she is only doing it for trolling purposes. It's the sort of thing someone does when they have no substance or argument.

Moreover, it probably is a sort of soothing balm for the type of insecure person who shudders at the thought that there are many actual Christians in this world, and being Christians, they are not yoked to Catholicism.

Remember when interacting with the Romanists, that although many things can be fixed, stupid is usually not one of them.

Joseph| 9.28.11 @ 6:26PM

Now that's cute the two personalities talking to each other because no rational person will talk to either one.
Not trolling, correcting stupidity and countering bigotry.
You watching the Jimmy Swaggart shows on your DVD?

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 12:54AM

Mister Grady,

"It's the sort of thing someone does when they have no substance or argument."

Pot calling kettle. You have yet to respond to any of my questions, from last week. You do not seem to be interested in any type of debate, whatsoever.
God Bless!

Peter McGrath| 9.28.11 @ 5:27PM

This sort of invective is unhelpful. There is a plethora of Biblical support for the Pentecostal and Charismatic traditions of Christianity - speaking in tongues can be a means of prophecy, so long as it's capable of being interpreted meaningfully. Calling fellow believers "nuts" is a huge mistake and suggests that Grady is trading in stereotypes.

Mister Grady| 9.28.11 @ 6:27PM

To: Peter McGrath @ 5:27 PM

You may think that me laying out facts is unhelpful, but I don't. I don't sugarcoat it. There is no place in Christianity for mealy mouthed jellyfish. Christians are in a spiritual battle, and battle we will. The fact that some people are bothered by that is irrelevant.

Have a look at the loons on TBN and get back to me.

There is, quite simply, zero Biblical justification for the sorts of heretical antics you can see performed by those nuts on a daily basis. They are comprised of pentecostals, charismatics, and word-faith.

Want names?

Benny Hinn, Todd Bentley, Rod Parsley, Marilyn Hickey, T.D. Jakes, Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copland, Jesse Duplantis, John Hagee, Hal Lindsey, just to name a few, and the list goes on and on and on, ad infinitum.

And TBN is entirely viewer-supported. That means lots and lots and lots of pentecostals, charismatics, and word-faith people sending them money on a regular basis.

Like it or not, oftentimes there are very good reasons which support the stereotype. This is precisely one of those instances.

The take-away from all this is that if you support nuttiness, then you're a nut.

Joseph| 9.28.11 @ 7:55PM

You are not a Christian. You are a cultist.
You still have those Jack Chick comics and Jimmy Swaggart tapes?

irish19| 9.28.11 @ 11:32PM

TBN? Not familiar with that.

Mister Grady| 9.29.11 @ 3:36AM

I don't know where you live but it's on just about every cable provider's basic offering. It's a channel whose main purpose is to make the world think you've gotta be a certified kook to be a Christian. The owners (Paul and Jan Crouch) are quite wealthy.

Tina B| 9.29.11 @ 7:37AM

NRB is my station on Direct TV. I spend more money every month, and have done for years, just to get the National Religious Broadcasters, and because I have heard enough of TBN, which I call the big hair station. I don't even want to think about them and their pseudo-Christian (IMO) messages about God, money and word-faith religion. Speak it, add in Christ's Name, and it is so. Right. And I know the mind of God in all my circumstances. Not.

On NRB I find the true Gospel regularly. Ravi Zacharias, David Jeremiah, Charles Price, Michael Yousef, Joni Eareckson Tada, Ron Hutchcraft, Anne Graham Lotz, John MacArthur, Charles Stanley, as well as many other really inspirational or educational programs.

I also listen to Moody Radio whenever I can. Then I get to hear those mentioned above as well as Joe Stowell, Max Lucado, Alistair Begg, Chuck Swindoll, more of Ravi's people, like Alistaire McGrath and the rest of the team, Chip Ingram, Erwin Lutzer, Greg Laurie, James MacDonald, Tony Evans and Luis Palau, and call in programs that totally support our political views and news (here at TAS), like Janet Parshall's "In the Market."

Truly wonderful ministries, all. I have even heard old messages from Charles Spurgeon, A.W. Tozer and Dwight Moody from time to time.

And there is also this website:
http://www.oneplace.com
which links to all of the above and more. No big hair broadcasters there.

But I will not make the claim that absolutely everyone on NRB is sound, yet I have only encountered one or two shows that are 'out there'. And I've heard thousands of hours of Christ's message over the past 15 years.

I find that although we are to be salt and light to the world, according to Christ's Word, He also, through Paul, tells us to be sly as a fox, gentle as a lamb, and winsome in our way. I had to learn that the hard way, after many confrontations with excited JWs at my door, and dear LDS boys in their white shirts, ties and two-wheeled bikes.

I had to read Ron Rhoades and Walter Martin and decided to become more polite as well as far more informed about their unusual beliefs about Christ and His position in the Godhead. Or non-position.

So rather that waste any more time talking about TBN, just stay the heck away from Benny Hinn and Creflo and Rod and their ilk, and tune into one of the three sources I have given you. Look for some of these tried and true servants of God, and broaden your knowledge in the convenience of your home or car. Then worship God wherever He calls you and serve Him with your time, your treasures and your talents. Daily, hourly, until He calls you home.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 3:29PM

I love Alistair Begg. :^).
And Janet Parshall's awesome. We moved and now I tune in to her show often.
Did you hear her show yesterday? She had on Barry Lynn. Wow! What a show that was.

Joseph| 9.29.11 @ 5:46PM

Tina,
Do you agree with Margie about Colson?

Tina B| 9.29.11 @ 8:12PM

I only know what I hear from Chuck Colson whenever I listen to his radio short broadcast, Breakpoint (available as a MP3 download daily, I'm sure). I agree with him on everything he now proclaims.

There was a great outcry when he promoted the Ecumenical Council and contract, but I steered away from this because, following Moody Radio's lead, it seemed his heart was in the right place. I had read his bio and 1 of his books and in recent years began listening to Breakpoint or finding on my computer to enjoy whenever. He seems a solid Christian (Christ follower) to me and I hear nothing about the Ecumenical movement now.

I was in a local prison ministry in Kissimmee, Florida, directly after my daughter was born, 30 years ago. A Rev. Walborne took me with him to go through the men's and then the women's cell blocks. We prayed, sang and ministered however we could to the inmates.

No murderers or rapists in the local jail. Wonderful and difficult at the same time. I will always love Chuck for his Prison Fellowship ministries. He has made a world of difference to many families of the incarcerated at Christmas time, through Angel Tree.

That's all I have to go by on Colson. Jesus said, "By their fruits ye shall know them." His fruit is growing beautifully, and nurturing many souls. We all make mistakes in good faith. God knows I have made some serious ones.

I didn't have a chance to hear Parshall, yesterday, but when I retire tomorrow (by the grace of God) I will try and listen to her, and Alistair Begg EVERY DAY, they are both a source of great joy and learning to me.

All of you who post in His name, and to those still searching for Him, we are in this together, and we war against powers, principalties and dominions. If these are Satanic forces, princes of darkness, dark angels, we are to be united in His name. He can give us strength in numbers.

But there are things about which we will disagree, but not divide. I know some things are abhorrent to God, and we must avoid these at all costs. He has made known to each of us our weaknesses, and the better we know Him, the more He infills us, the greater our sin will appear to us.

So cling to Him, His Word, His grace, and fellowship with those who do the same. We ride this last battle out, He rescues His children, and we are home free.

W| 9.29.11 @ 9:21PM

Tina,
You sound like a true Christian. I like Colson's books. They are all very good.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 11:20PM

As opposed to me of course. Right, liar?
Heh, you are filled with deceit.

Peter McGrath| 9.29.11 @ 11:00AM

No - I don't support nuttiness, nor the list of charlatans set forth above but - in the past - I attended Pentecostal churches which have been doctrinally sound (the Assembly of God is a good example, as is the Church of God) and have no truck with the line of bull (what itching ears want to hear) parlayed by hucksters listed above.

Peter McGrath| 9.29.11 @ 11:11AM

No, I don't support nuttiness, nor the list of charlatans set forth above but - in the past - I attended Pentecostal churches whose doctrine was sound (the Assembly of God and and Church of God are good examples) and which didn't truck with the line of bull (what "itching ears want to hear") parlayed by hucksters like Hinn and Copeland.

Thou brush doth paint too wide a swath.

Bill S| 9.28.11 @ 5:00PM

I can't see how the Holy Spirit could work in the Catholic Church when it preaches a false gospel. The Catholic Church is a cult that preaches salvation by infant baptism and obedience to church teachings. It should preach salvation by faith in Christ alone and obedience to Christ alone through the Bible. It's no surprise that people are leaving the church in droves because it's spiritually dead. Evangelicals have no business working with the Catholic Church any more than Elijah would've worked with the prophets of Baal.

Mister Grady| 9.28.11 @ 5:13PM

Bill S,

Well said.

irish19| 9.28.11 @ 5:43PM

So, I take it you guys (and gals) believe in infant damnation?

Joseph| 9.28.11 @ 6:28PM

BillS and Mister Grady and Margie are the same. There can't be three people this stupid and bigoted on this site.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 6:52PM

irish, sorry, but you have absolutely no authority as a Papist to judge whether anyone's a Christian or not.

You need to become regenerated from above by the Holy Spirit and become a real brother in Christ. When you do, you won't be lying about Christians being Christians.
Jn. 3:3.

RCV| 9.28.11 @ 7:31PM

Nor do you, Margie, since you're not one yourself, denying that Christ is God, of one being with the Father, the centrality of Christian belief. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 7:43PM

"Like the glaze covering an earthen vessel are smooth lips with an evil heart.
He who hates, dissembles with his lips and harbors deceit in his heart; when he speaks graciously, believe him not, for there are seven abominations in his heart; though his hatred be covered with guile, his wickedness will be exposed in the assembly.
He who digs a pit will fall into it, and a stone will come back upon him who starts it rolling." Prov. 26:23-27.

RCV| 9.28.11 @ 10:23PM

There's nobody better than Margie to avoid discussing an issue by quoting random excerpts from the Bible that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. The sign of a schizophrenic.

RCV| 9.28.11 @ 10:25PM

...and note the lack of her denial of what we've all come to know of her eccentric "Christian" (not) beliefs!

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 2:23PM

RCV has a bug up his butt. He REALLY cannot stand that I take his lying rear and to task!
LOL.
Well RCV, but it isn't really me that takes your sorry lying butt to task~ it's the written Word of God.

Christians actually stand on and quote from Scriptures, and that is what I do.

Here is yet another one that aptly applies to your insincere, disgusting ilk:

"He who says "I know Him" but disobeys His Commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him.." 1 Jn. 2:4.

"Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son." 1 Jn. 2:22.

Now, how does the first verse apply to the liar?
RCV slaps the LORD Jesus Christ in the Face by saying Homosexuality isn't Sin.

How does the second verse apply to the liar, RCV?
The liar RCV refuses to confess that Jesus is the Christ.

irish19| 9.28.11 @ 11:33PM

You need to answer the question. It's pretty simple.
Infant damnation, yes or no.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 4:33PM

irish~ what on earth are you talking about with infant damnation?

Jesus tells us that the Kingdom of God belongs to the children.. therefore what is their need for Baptism?

It makes no sense, and isn't biblical! There's no need for them to be Baptized when they are babies.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ says to "Repent and be Baptized!"

Children do not understand even what it means to repent~ this is written to adults who DO understand.

"And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Acts 2:38.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 5:21PM

Margie,

Babies are conceived in original sin, as we all are, because of the sin of our first parents. (Christ and Our Lady being the exceptions, of course.) This is the sin that is washed away by the Holy Spirit, for infants. And, as Saint Peter told us, it saves (1 Peter 3:21).
God Bless!

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 5:35PM

So you see, irish~ that it is Nick who believes in infant damnation after all!

Nick is bought and sold by Satan, as he believes the perversion that is taught in Catholicism.
What he just posted is utter perversion, and against the Scripture.
I posted the Scriptures~
Now, irish~ whom will you believe?
The Bible (God's Own Words)?
Or false Religion?

irish19| 9.29.11 @ 6:12PM

Not at all. Original sin is what got Adam & Eve booted from the Garden. We all have it. Infants are baptized in order to wash that stain from their souls-just in case.
Hardly makes us bought and sold by Satan.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 6:24PM

So then,
You believe that infants are damned then, by "original sin" if they aren't baptized.

You asked the question~ and have answered it yourself.

You choose to against the Word of God, then.
I gave you His Words here~ and you reject them.
You're calling Jesus a liar.
He says the Kingdom of God belongs to the children.
He commands adults to repent and be baptized. I provided the Scriptures~ you reject them.

You have been bought and sold by the Devil.
This is why you need to Repent, and BELIEVE THE GOSPEL OF GOD.
Because what you have bought into is demonic, it is a lie.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 6:20PM

Margie,

What I wrote does not pervert or contradict Acts 2. Peter was not referring to infants, he was speaking of those who had attained the age of reason, those who had a need of penance.

And, I don't believe in infant damnation. Because the Catholic Church doesn't teach any such thing, and never did.
God Bless!

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 6:25PM

You are a walking contradiction, Nick.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 7:06PM

This is not an answer, sorry.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 7:33PM

Sorry, but is it MY answer.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 7:54PM

Margie,

No, it is a response, of sorts, but, it answered nothing, I'm afraid.
God Bless!

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 11:07PM

It is my answer to you. Period.

Nick| 9.30.11 @ 12:13AM

Margie,

Yes, this is because it is impossible to come up with answers that contradict the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Margie| 9.30.11 @ 8:06PM

LOL. I've been doing that for years~ proving that Catholicism is a false and unbiblical Religion.

You just refuse to see it.
As I said, you have been bought and sold by the Devil himself, Nick~ and you WANT it!

irish19| 9.28.11 @ 11:36PM

Lest I forget. There was a Catholic Church and a line of popes going back to St. Peter long before you self-styled Christians came along.

Mister Grady| 9.29.11 @ 3:42AM

The RCC began with Constantine the pagan nearly 1700 years ago. The Bible provides no evidence of a Pope or of apostolic succession.

Sorry!

Dan| 9.29.11 @ 12:24PM

There must be a public library near your trailer park where you can read a history book on the popes starting with Peter.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 2:27PM

So, to you, Bible believing Christians are considered trailer trash?
You have been taught well by your demonic Cult!

Dan| 9.29.11 @ 3:48PM

No Margie. Christians are wonderful people. You and your various personalities (Mister Grady, BillS, and whatever) are not Christians.

You are a cult of one, as stated by many others here.

When you start acting as a Christian I will say you are a Christian.

So, don't assume you are a Christian just because you read your version of the Bible, which I assume is different from the Catholic Bible, and the Jewish Bible, since you must read from a bible approved by Luther, Calving,and the rest of the protestant "reformers."

And It doesn't matter which Bilble you read because you do not act here like a Christian. You call everyone who disagrees with you a liar, or a blatant liar, and a punk.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 4:35PM

Dan, you're a blatant liar. I am not using anyone's name but my own here.

That alone makes you a fraud, that you would say this.

Along with everything else in your vile post~ you are to be utterly disregarded.

irish19| 9.29.11 @ 4:03PM

That would be Constantine the convert, right?
And in any case, my point above is still correct. The Catholic Church predates by a good 1300 years the rise of you self-styled Christians.
And BTW, unless there is something lower on the thread, I'm still waiting for you loving Christians to let me know your position on infant damnation.
I won't hold my breath.

irish19| 9.29.11 @ 4:08PM

Oh yeah. I'm getting forgetful. Wasn't it Constantine who convened the conference that determined just which books of all those floating around would be included in the "official" version of the Bible you lot are so fond of quoting? I believe it was.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 4:39PM

irish,
Those self-styled Christians were the Apostles and disciples of Christ, who came along way before Catholicism did.

And the Gospel of Jesus Christ says that whoever believes in Him and receives Him, are called children of God.

"But to all who received Him, who believed in His Name, he gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." Jn. 1:12 & 13.

Irish, I ask you: Have you been born of God yet?

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 5:14PM

Margie,

"Those self-styled Christians were the Apostles and disciples of Christ, who came along way before Catholicism did."

You mean the Catholics who wrote the The Didache (Teachings) of the Apostles, while Saint John the Apostle was still alive? Or, Saint Ignatius of Antioch, who taught Catholic doctrines, and was himself taught by John the Apostle and was made Bishop of Antioch by Saint Peter?

Your understanding of "came along way before" is very different than mine! Ha-ha!
God Bless!

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 5:20PM

"Any one who goes ahead and does not abide in the Doctrine of Christ does not have God; he who abides in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son.

If any one comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into the house or give him any greeting; for he who greets him shares his wicked work." 2 Jn. 1:9-11.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 7:05PM

Margie,

I hope you are not trying to say that Sts. Peter and John the Apostle taught false doctrine?

Somehow, I think Saint Ignatius knew more about Gospel of Jesus Christ, as taught by Peter and John, than either you, or I, do.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 7:36PM

This Ignatious guy~ he wasn't appointed by God.
He has ZERO, ZIP, NADA authority about ANYTHING.

And spare me the phony, disgusting insinuations.
I am thoroughly SICK of them.
SNAKE.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 8:06PM

Margie,

"This Ignatious [sic] guy~ he wasn't appointed by God."

Yes, he was appointed by God, through the power of the Apostles, which was given by Christ.

Saint Ignatius was also praised in the book Martyrs Mirror, which you cite constantly as an authority on the Catholic Church:

"Ignatius, a disciple of the apostle John, and a successor of Peter and Evodius, was in the service of the church of Christ at Antioch in Syria. He was a very God-fearing man, and faithful and diligent in his ministrations. He was surnamed Theophorus, that is, The Bearer of God, apparently because he often bore the name of God and his Saviour in his mouth, and led a godly life. He was wont to say frequently, "The life of man is a continual death, unless it be that Christ liveth in us." Likewise, "The crucified Christ is my only and entire love." And, "He that allows himself to be called after any other than Christ, is not God." And again, "As the world hates the Christians, so God loves them."

Have you now thrown this book under the bus, along with all the others? Did Chuck Colson, Mr. Job, and Sinead need something to read under there? Ha-ha!
God Bless!

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 11:06PM

You are becoming more and more sickening with the game playing and lying, Nick.

It is why you are not my brother, nor a friend.
I haven't thrown anyone under the bus. I speak truthfully.
He was not appointed by God to ANYTHING.
And that was my POINT.
It is the truth, and nothing more or less.
REPENT!

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 11:51PM

Margie,

"He was not appointed by God to ANYTHING."

Saint Ignatius was appointed Bishop of Antioch by Saint Peter. Saint Peter was appointed prime minister of His Church by God. So, God did appoint Ignatius, indirectly. Do you know better than Simon Kephas, whom Christ chose?

Your own book, Martyrs Mirror, says how Godly Ignatius was. Don't you believe that book anymore? Isn't that book your only proof for the bogus claim that millions were killed by the dreaded Papists?

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 11:35PM

P.S.

By saying Chuck Colson must be losing his mind to have anything to do with ecumenticalism~~ I am speaking the truth.
There is no compromising with God's Truth.

In fact~ your Religion~ your Pope (in the link I posted) wrote at length concerning church doctrine (not Christian doctrine), and it hasn't changed since the Papists put to death millions of Bible believing Christians.
FACT: Your Pope still considers us heretics.
And so do you.
'Nuff said.
Christians cannot "unite" with lies.

However, it doesn't mean I don't still appreciate the things he has said. My husband and are give to his Prison ministry~ Angel Tree. It's for children of prisoners to get Christmas presents.

I really don't appreciate your crap, Nick.
You disgust me.

Nick| 9.30.11 @ 12:03AM

Margie,

"FACT: Your Pope still considers us heretics.
And so do you."

How many times do I have to tell you? The Pope, nor I, consider you, or other Bible-believing Christians, a heretic. I've explained this to you, at some length. Why do you keep writing this?

May the Love of Christ, and His Blessings, be with you, and your family.
Yours in Christ, Nick

Margie| 9.30.11 @ 8:04PM

Shall I go and repost your posts? The ones where you said you considered the Martyrs of Jesus Christ whom your Papists murdered, heretics?

Shall I?

Joseph| 9.29.11 @ 5:49PM

They came along with Martin Luther, John Calvin, and King Henry VIII, They then reviewed the Catholic Bible and threw out books that did not fit with their ideology/theology.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 12:34AM

Bill S.,

"It should preach salvation by faith in Christ alone and obedience to Christ alone through the Bible."

Show me where in the Bible one would find such a command as obedience to Christ alone through the Bible, okay?
God Bless!

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 2:24PM

Only Catholicism, the lying Cult teaches obedience to anyone but Christ.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 3:41PM

Margie,

What about Anglicanism? Lutheranism? Methodistism? Presbyterianism? Baptistism?

irish19| 9.29.11 @ 4:00PM

Other than the Anglican/Episcopalian church (Archbishop of Canterbury), I don't believe any of the others have a central authority.
Just for accuracy.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 4:10PM

Irish19,

Yes, I believe you are correct. I included the others because they have bishops and synods, whose declarations are binding on member churches, I'm pretty sure. I'm no expert on Protestant denominations, so, I may be wrong.

Thanks for the clarification.
God Bless!

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 4:43PM

The Central Authority is Christ Jesus, not a council of men, who counsel other men on the Words of God.

Rather than consult the Bible, they consult each other.

"Any one who goes ahead and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God; he who abides in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son.

If any one comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into the house or give him any greeting; for he who greets him shares his wicked work." 2 Jn. 1:9-11.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 4:54PM

Margie,

"Rather than consult the Bible, they consult each other."

Then why do you only mention the Catholic Church?

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 5:18PM

Whose false doctrines DO you want to talk about, Nick?

Joseph| 9.29.11 @ 5:51PM

Nick,
You are really wasting your time. Margie presumes that every Catholic doctrine is false.

Nick| 9.30.11 @ 12:53AM

Joseph,

It is never a waste of time to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ and defend our Catholic faith. The Holy Spirit will make good use of this effort. Remember, we aren't trying to win arguments, just present the Light of Truth to those who walk in the dark.

Pray for me. And, pray for Margie. We all need prayers.
God Bless!
Yours in Christ, Nick

W| 9.30.11 @ 7:46AM

You are correct, as usual, Nick.

W| 9.30.11 @ 7:50AM

Joseph,
Nick knows his stuff. He is doing a great job explaining the Bible

Nick| 10.1.11 @ 12:07AM

W,

Thanks, for the very kind words. You humble me. Believe me, I'm no expert theologian or Bible scholar.

Although I have been studying, off and on, for over a decade now, I have only scratched the surface. What I do have some knowledge of, is where to find great sources, like the early Church Fathers. Or, great modern day scholars like Dr. Scott Hahn, Jeff Cavins, Peter Kreeft, Karl Keating, Father Z., Patrick Madrid, too many to list here, really. If you are not familiar with these Catholic authors, I recommend you look them up.

Thanks, again. God Bless you and your family!

W| 10.1.11 @ 10:57AM

Nick,
Thanks for the names. I am familiar with Peter Kreeft, I believe he is a convert, and Hahn and Keating. Will check out the others. So many good books and so little time.

I have many of Kreeft's books. I like "Socrates meets Jesus," and "The Unaborted Socrates." Just picked up "Between Allah and Jesus," what Christians can learn from Muslims.

I got interested in this about two years ago after attending a seminar on St.Thomas Aquinas and the Law. The man is brilliant, to say the least. Then this year I started noticing the crazy posts about the Bible here, and started reading more about the Bible and its history.

You do a terrific job pointing out the errors, don't give up.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 6:10PM

Margie,

Answering a question with a question, does not answer the original question. I defend my own Faith, not others'. For those who want to discuss their church's teachings as compared to the Catholic Church's teachings, I'm more than willing to engage.

I just want you to understand that it is predominately to the Catholic Church that you speak your truth, not the other denominations. And, that calling those who reject the Papacy, like Ken and RCV, Papists, is confusing and doesn't make much sense.

I have asked you this before, and you have explained that you feel the same way about other organized Christian denominations. Yet, you don't go after their tenets with the same vigor as you do to my Church. I find this to be unfair discrimination.

Disagree with Catholics all you want, I welcome it. But, to be intellectually honest, you must speak your truth to all of the Anglicans, Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, etc, every time one of their. You are compelled to share your gospel, including all of its un-nice talk, with all Christians whom are members of an organized church. Aren't you?

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 6:19PM

Nick,

You constantly try and take me (and anyone else that is Christian) around in circles of deceit.

Futhermore, Ken does NOT reject the Papacy.
NOR does RCV.

We WERE discussing Catholicism here.

I will NO longer engage you in deceitful circles, but point out what you are ACTUALLY doing~ which is CONSTANT obfuscating.

And let's not talk about intellectual honesty here, Papist.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 7:30PM

Margie,

One has to be Catholic to accept the Papacy. Unless, you're San Fran Gran Nan Pelosi, John Kerry, or Teddy 'the Swimmer' Kennedy, who are "Catholics In Name Only," and already reject the Papacy.

By definition, joining a different denomination publicly shows one's rejection of the Papacy, for all to see. Well, almost all, that is.
God Bless!

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 7:32PM

Wrong.
If one accepts the teachings of the Pope~ they are accepting the Papacy.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 7:52PM

Margie,

Wrong. If they reject even one of the Church's teachings, i.e., dogma, and therefore "the teachings of the Pope," they have rejected the pope and his authority. This is just common sense.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 11:01PM

Well, Nick. You're talking about Catholic rules here.
And I'm talking reality.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 11:39PM

No, Margie, I'm talking common sense here.

Margie| 9.30.11 @ 8:03PM

No, you're talking Catholicism.
Unbiblical, warped Catholicism.

Nick| 9.30.11 @ 11:42PM

Margie,

The Catholic Church's teachings are completely Biblical. Repeating this over and over again, won't make it suddenly become true.

Ken (Old Texican)| 9.28.11 @ 6:28PM

The Holy Spirit has intervened in my own personal life three times to the best of my recollection and understanding.
Then,
He has used me to intervene in a lot of lives. In a quiet setting I have prayed this prayer which was always ...ALWAYS...answered ...on the spot to change a whole life:

"Father, (name), has no where else to turn. I want you to intercede here through your Holy Spirit. Please, Father, put your money where your mouth is.
When this person lifts his/her head from this prayer, seeking your forgiveness for Jesus' sake, touch his soul with your love, sufficient for a lifetime."
Folks,
Jesus Christ made us a promise. (Smile) In fact, He made several. His word is good.
Read up on those promises and smile a lot.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 6:50PM

In a quiet setting, Ken?
Was that before or after you threw me to the wolves here?
Was it before or after you told everyone here that I am not a Christian?
Was it before or after you bore false witness against me and lied about business matters?
Was it before or after you excoriated me again for standing on God's written Words in the face of these despicable Catholic lying Trolls as you join them in their vile lying?

Hmm?

Ken (Old Texican)| 9.28.11 @ 7:05PM

I forgive you, Margie.

By the way, Bob C. asked about you last week. He was saddened that you could not sell his classic car documents.
He works too hard digging through a warehouse full of them at the request of his car buyers.
I had hoped you and vic could make a nice business selling them. No good deed goes unpunished though. Heh, there must be too many catholic classic car buyers.

Margie| 9.28.11 @ 7:23PM

You forgive ME? As if it is I who has sinned?
You're delusional.

You lied about this entire thing with Bib, who we spoke to to let him know what you said here. You said YOU sent us a million dollars worth of inventory, free of charge!

A blatant lie. Bob, not you sent us a small amount of brochures, which WE paid the shipping on. Bob also told us he has no million dollars worth of inventory.
We also must pay him for those brochures as well.

We did not get a handout. Nor did we come begging to you as you said previously. You also said plenty of other disgusting lies about me, and have NEVER repented of them.

Your snide comment is dripping with deceit but in reality truly hateful and is duly noted.

"Like the glaze covering an earthen vessel are smooth lips with an evil heart.
He who hates, dissembles with his lips and harbors deceit in his heart; when he speaks graciously, believe him not, for there are seven abominations in his heart; though his hatred be covered with guile, his wickedness will be exposed in the assembly.
He who digs a pit will fall into it, and a stone will come back upon him who starts it rolling." Prov. 26:23-27.

You are vile.

DRed| 9.28.11 @ 8:28PM

I think you're all wrong.

Atheist| 9.28.11 @ 9:15PM

I'm with you Dred

Martin| 9.29.11 @ 1:31AM

Yada, yada, yada.

A good piece, but I doubt it was intended to inflame such discussion here, as if two Witnesses were at your door, and you couldn't find the knob to close it.

Whatever your religious branding, the Godhead will be just that, until you meet the Person of the Holy Spirit personally, as real and unique as ever He has been. In His presence, there is no doctrine.

Without such, I suppose you could refer to yourself as 'Christian', but to what end? He is the only One who really knows you.

For further instructions, please refer to Owner's Manual.

jacky | 9.29.11 @ 2:46AM

Here's what I took away from this story.

POST American| 9.29.11 @ 6:56AM

------------------BOTTOMLESS LINE------------------

Of course those who are at all interested
in bringing the holy spirit back into things
for themselves might start by clearing Freemasons
and other infiltrators and defilements
OUT of their respective churches.

AGAIN, we've NEVER heard of any Chrisitians
infiltrating their lodges and temples----or even
caring to ---EVER. Masonry funded and
directed BOTH 'Marks' and Darwin
--themselves BOTH of the highest degrees.

This is a GARGANTUAN
'Seperation ofChurch and Coven' issue
---NEVER talked about. NEVER mentioned.

Need we remind you ---Masonry IS Social Darwnism
-it is EUGENICS.

Even now, as 33rd degree Freemasons Pat Robertson
and Billy Graham pound the last
nails into true scriptural doctrine ---while
failing to sound ANY warnings, to voice
ANY righteous indignation against capstone,
USURY and TREASON or EUGENICS.

Likewise such other Freemasons posing
as Christians ---Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson
and, no doubt, Robert Schuller etc. etc.

We have been betrayed from within the
within.

-----------HUAC meets NUREMBERG 2012---------

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 2:36PM

Note that every Catholic here does NOT accept those who are not Catholic~ as Christians.

Yet they play the victim when Scripture is spoken to them, which they utterly reject, and call it hatred!

They are trained by Satan himself to reject the Scriptures and replace them with the false teachings of the Pope.

Yet Jesus is LORD and He knows EXACTLY who it is that belongs to Him!

No liar can destroy His Truth, according to the Scriptures:

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of My Hand.
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's Hand.
I and the Father are one." Jn. 10:27-30.

Christians are always putting on the whole Armor of God:

"Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the Heavenly places.

Therefore take the whole Armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand." Eph. 6:11-13.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 3:58PM

Margie,

"Note that every Catholic here does NOT accept those who are not Catholic~ as Christians."

Another statement that is not true. I accept you as a Christian and have never claimed that you were not sincere in your beliefs. Please, do not include me with others who have done so.

"For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the Heavenly places."

Yes, let us join forces against the armies of demons, and their king, Satan. Because we are truly involved in spiritual warfare. The WWII generation had to fight the evil of this world. We are fighting the evil of the supernatural world.

Today is the Feast of the Archangels: Micha'el, Who is Like God; Gabri'el, God is My Strength; and Rapha'el, God Heals.

"St. Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the Devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray,
and do thou,
O Prince of the heavenly hosts,
by the power of God,
thrust into hell Satan,
and all the evil spirits,
who prowl about the world
seeking the ruin of souls. Amen..

Read more: http://www.ewtn.com/devotional.....z1ZNCr0UHd

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 4:47PM

Forget it Nick.
You are bought and sold by the Devil himself.
You spew lies and constantly, in a MOST deceitful manner try and make me out to be a liar~ along with your pals.
I repeat:
You are NOT a brother in Christ to me. And I am NOT your friend.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 5:06PM

Margie,

"No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." - Matthew 6:24

How could I profess my love for Christ, and my neighbors, if I was a follower of Satan? I love God with all of my mind, heart, and soul. I believe that you, also, have the same love for God.

You are my sister in Christ, and I still consider you a friend, even if you, for some unknown reason, continue not to reciprocate.
May God Bless you and your family.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 5:17PM

REPENT and believe the Gospel, Nick.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 5:34PM

Margie,

I already believe the Gospel, every Word.

And, I constantly need to repent, since I constantly sin and reject God's love. But, sharing the Good News of Christ and defending my Faith in Jesus Christ is not something of which I need to repent.

If you would tell me what I did that caused you to turn on me like you did, maybe we could go back to the friendship that we enjoyed, on these web pages, only two short months ago. If it was something sinful, I will gladly repent.
Yours in Christ, Nick

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 5:53PM

You DO NOT believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Nick.
You believe, hook, line and sinker~ false and unbiblical teachings!

Your faith isn't in Christ, it's in the Pope!

YOU NEED TO PRAY ABOUT THIS!

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 6:54PM

Margie,

Yes, I do believe in the Gospel, every Word. It is only your opinion that I do not.
Christ put His Faith into the Holy Father, and that's good enough for me.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 7:30PM

The Holy Father?
I hope you're speaking of the same Holy Father that Jesus prayed to, and not the Pope, who is an utter FRAUD.

"And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to Thee. Holy Father, keep them in Thy Name, which thou hast given Me, that they may be one, even as we are one." Jn. 17:11.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 7:44PM

Margie,

No, I was referring to el Papa, Daddy. As I have referred to him many, many times in my responses to you. Pope Benedict XVI is dear and kind man.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 11:00PM

So... Jesus put his faith in the Pope in that verse?

See Nick, this is why you MUST repent and believe the Gospel of God.
You are deceived, my friend.

Nick| 9.29.11 @ 11:38PM

Margie,

"So... Jesus put his faith in the Pope in that verse?"

No, not in that verse. He put His Faith into Simon Kephas, in Matthew 16:17 :"And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood has not revealed it to you, but my Father who is in heaven."

Later, at the Pentecost after the Ascension, the Holy Spirit confirmed that Faith, which allowed the Church, which Christ founded back at Caesarea Philippi, to spread to the whole world. Just as Christ said She would (Matthew 28:18-20).

Margie| 9.30.11 @ 8:02PM

Are you kidding me?
You're actually going to try and claim that Jesus put his faith in a man?
Yeah, uh huh. More Catholic drivel.
Jesus gave the Glory to God the Father in that verse.
You're nuts!

Nick| 9.30.11 @ 11:39PM

Margie,

Christ is saying that God the Father revealed this Truth to Peter and that Peter didn't figure this out because of his own intellect. Therefore, God put His Truth into Peter. And, Christ had faith in the men that He chose to build His Church, the prime minister being Simon Kephas, Vicar of Christ, Servant of the Servants of God, the Holy Father.
God Bless!

W| 9.29.11 @ 3:54PM

Not true.
All the Catholics I know accept Christians as Christians regardless of whether they are Catholic.
The comments here are directed to you Margie.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 4:45PM

The comments here were NOT all directed at me, liar.
They were directed at Mr. Grady, Bill S, and others as well who also agree with the Bible rather than the Cult of Catholicism.
Nice try, scumbag.

W| 9.29.11 @ 5:12PM

Pure Christianity on display by Margie.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 5:16PM

And what does your lying represent, W?

W| 9.29.11 @ 5:34PM

Margie, not interested in conversing with you until you start acting like a normal human being. You can't seem to get along with anyone here, even people like Nick who goes the extra mile to be nice to you. For your own sake, stop it.

FYI I never heard a Catholic say that a Protestant, or BibleC to use your term, is not a Christian. And never heard a Protestant say a Catholic is not a Christian. Further, I lived in an equally mixed Jewish/Catholic/Protestant neighborhood and never, never heard the language you use daily.

You are the only person that says that, and I don't know or care about the other names here,, some people here claim those are you. It doesn't matter and I don't care what religion you practice.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 5:46PM

Oh, so now you're not into conversing.. until I act like a human being!

What a hypocrite.

DRed| 9.29.11 @ 5:56PM

Margie (or anyone else, I suppose) what do you do when the Bible plainly contradicts itself? For example, what happened to Judas after he betrayed Jesus? Did he return the silver and hang himself, as reported in Matthew, or did he buy a field and then fall over and burst asunder, as it is written in Acts?

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 6:14PM

DRed,

"They are all straight to him who understands and right to those who find knowledge." Prov. 8:9.

Tina B| 9.30.11 @ 8:51AM

DRed,
The Bible never contradicts itself, but often contexts cause the authors to reveal different aspects of circumstances that actually happened. In the case of the death of Judas, we have both Paul, writing in Acts, and Matthew referring to Judas' actions subsequent to his death.

You might want to check this website on that, very informative, and speculative:

http://www.tektonics.org/gk/judasdeath.html

I have found no contradictions in my 40 years of searching the Scriptures, and in the early years I was finding the same conflicts as you, possibly. Some of the authors and ministers I mentioned earlier in my posts have covered many of these issues to clarify for me the solidity and unity of the history and facts covered in our Bible today.

God does not make mistakes and He is the sole author of the Bible. I have no problem believing that any being who could create this magnificent universe, so mathematically precise, count inspire the recordings which have come down to us as The Holy Bible.

from another website:

http://www.christiananswers.ne.....uency.html

Consider the fact that the Bible is comprised of 66 Books written over a period of about 1,500 years by over 40 authors from all walks of life, with different kinds of personalities, and in all sorts of situations. It was written in three languages on three continents, and it covers hundreds of controversial subjects. Yet, it fits together into one cohesive story with an appropriate beginning, a logical ending, a central character, and a consistent theme.

W| 9.30.11 @ 2:17PM

Tina,
The Catholic Bible has, I believe, 73 books. Martin Luther discarded seven or eight books because they did not fit with his beliefs and theology.

W| 9.29.11 @ 5:58PM

What't the point?
You believe what you believe, you don't change your mind, and you call everyone who disagrees names. There is no point in trading insults.

Margie| 9.29.11 @ 6:05PM

And W~ you continue to LIE, along with the other Catholics here, about who I am and what I believe, no matter what I say.

Proving my point~ that Catholics do NOT accept Christians who are reject the false and unbiblical teachings of their Cult.

You tried to single me out with your VILE hatred.
I exposed your lying~ and you don't deal with it, but continue to insult me.

Yes, there's no point, is there?

You REJECT the WORD of GOD and replace it with lies.

Humphrey Dumfries | 9.30.11 @ 11:38AM

W, this is what Margie does. Rather than converse like an adult, she berates. Rather than consider our common, conservative ground, she calls us sinners for not ascribing to her particular brand of Christianity (an especially judgemental and intolerant strain, it would seem!). I think the site administrators said it best: "Don't feed the trolls!"

Margie| 9.30.11 @ 7:59PM

Nope. It isn't me who says you're a sinner for not abiding in His Words~ it's the Son of God.

"He who does not love Me does not keep My Words; and the Word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's Who sent Me." Jn. 14:24.

As a Christian, it is my duty and honor to preach His Gospel to you all.
It isn't my fault that you reject Him, but so be it!

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