The American Spectator : Do Palestinians Really Want Their Own State?

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Do Palestinians Really Want Their Own State?

By Aaron Goldstein on 9.20.11 @ 6:08AM

With Mahmoud Abbas applying to the UN for Palestinian statehood, we have to ask: is he bluffing, or is he bluffing brilliantly?

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is expected to submit an application to the UN Security Council to recognize Palestine as an independent state later this week. The Obama Administration is expected to use its veto in the Security Council to quash that application.

Yet given its implacable hostility towards the State of Israel, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Obama Administration does an about-face and gives a Palestinian state its blessing. Then watch the UN General Assembly welcome Palestine into the family of nations with open arms.

One could make the argument that George W. Bush opened the door to this mess when he became the first president to call for a Palestinian state back in June 2002. Bush proclaimed: "I call on the Palestinian people to elect new leaders, leaders not compromised by terror. I call upon them to build a practicing democracy, based on tolerance and liberty."

Well, the Palestinians in Gaza elected new leaders all right. But in choosing Hamas they elected leaders not only compromised by terror but defined by it. Needless to say, legalizing crucifixion isn't exactly a sign that the Palestinians are practicing democracy based on tolerance and liberty. The West Bank, governed by the supposedly secular Fatah, isn't exactly a beacon of benevolence either, as it frequently arrests dissidents (including last November's arrest of one blogger who criticized Islam). As Khaled Abu Toameh, an Israeli Arab journalist, wrote earlier this year, "Hamas is bad; but who said that Fatah is any better?" President Bush would go on to say, "A Palestinian state will never be created by terror -- it will be built through reform." But what do the Palestinians know other than terror?

After all, a Palestinian state has never been about building a nation but rather about destroying one -- Israel. The Jewish State -- despite its peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan -- is no more accepted in the Arab and Muslim world now than when it was established by the UN in 1947. Indeed, to this day the creation of the State of Israel is referred to in the Arab and Muslim world as "al-Nabka" or "The Disaster."

People forget that the original proposed terms of the 1947 UN Partition Plan held that both a Jewish and an Arab state be created (hence the term "partition"). Basically, the Jews accepted these terms and the Arabs didn't. Five Arab armies invaded Israel upon its independence the following year and told the Arabs residing in Israel to leave and not come back until Israel had been conquered. Well, things didn't exactly go according to plan. If Israel's creation was a disaster for Arabs and Muslims then it was a disaster of their own making.

It's not as if there were calls for the establishment of a Palestinian state when Egypt governed Gaza and Jordan controlled the West Bank. Even when Israel took over Gaza and the West Bank following the Six Day War in 1967 there was no talk of Palestinian statehood. Adam Shatz, the senior editor of the London Review of Books and onetime literary editor at the Nation as well as a noted supporter of the Palestinians, recently wrote: "It's often forgotten that until the mid-1970s, Palestinians were looking not to establish a state but to achieve 'national liberation,' to restore their rights in the land from which they had been driven -- beginning with the right of return."

How else can one explain why the UN has two organizations for refugees -- one for Palestinians and one for everyone else? The United Nations Relief Works Agency of Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) "provides assistance, protection and advocacy for some 5 million registered Palestine refugees in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and the occupied Palestinian territory, pending a solution to their plight."

Of course, a solution to their plight appeared to be in hand just a little over a decade ago. During negotiations at Camp David, President Clinton tried to broker an offer to PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat which would have given the Palestinians all of Gaza and 98 percent of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Ehud Barak, then Israel's Prime Minister, accepted while Arafat turned down Palestinian statehood, refused to put forward his own proposal and soon started yet another intifada against Israel. It was 1947 all over again. Shlomo Ben-Ami, Israel's chief negotiator at Camp David, put it this way:

At the end of the process, it is impossible not to form the impression that the Palestinians don't want a solution as much as they want to place Israel in the dock of the accused. They want to denounce our state more than they want their own state. At the deepest level they have a negative ethos. This is why unlike Zionism, they are unable to compromise.

This is why going through the UN is so appealing to the Palestinians. There is no need for them to compromise. It legitimizes their aspirations while placing Israel "in the dock of the accused." It also puts the Obama Administration in the uncomfortable position of taking sides with Israel.

Yet what would happen if a Palestinian state were to be established? First and foremost, that state would immediately renew demand for the right of return of all Palestinians, whether they were in UNRWA camps or not. An influx of Palestinians would overwhelm Israel and force out the Jews with the support of the international community. At which point, Palestine would become yet another undemocratic, predominantly Muslim Middle Eastern state in need of international aid which would be used to support terrorism.

No wonder the Palestinians fit in so well at the UN.

About the Author

Aaron Goldstein writes from Boston, Massachusetts.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (90) | Leave a comment

Melvin| 9.20.11 @ 7:51AM

The Arabs wanted a war of attrition with Israel but didn't want to publicly do it themselves. So enter stage left the Palestinians. Arabs would fund the propaganda machine, that portrays Palestinians as the poor unfortunate refugees created by Israel.
The Arabs also paid for weapons and training to be smuggled to the Palestinians so they could stage mock funerals with the accompanying wailing and thrashing and bodies murdered at the hands of the IDF, falling out of the casket and filmed getting up and jumping back in the casket.
Of course with the help of the UN the West fell for this victimization hook line and sinker. We've been giving Palestinians boat loads of foreign aid, and supplying weapons to Abbas only to be used against Israel.
Palestinians have become the masters of propaganda and have come over to the United States and filled the head of college students and professors that Israel's treatment of the refugees is akin to Apartheid that was practiced in South Africa.
Duke University in North Carolina constantly rolls out the red carpet for Palestinian speakers and of course no student wouldn't be found not wearing their complementary Palestinian headscarf to display their solidarity with the plight of the Palestinian refugee.
But when asked why then Yasser Arafat and his cronies lived in seaside villas while the masses in in refugee camps. These young nubile, doe eyed peroxide blonds are at a loss for words and enter into the preprogrammed propagandist diatribe, it's Israel's fault.
But little do these students know that Palestinians historically originated from Jordan, got kicked out after they tried to take over the Jordanian government.
The then good king decided that the world would be better off with a few less Palestinians and commenced his own version of ethnic cleansing at his distant cousins.
In my opinion if the Palestinians carry out they're threat, and the UN grants them statehood. Plan for a Mideast war coming real soon.

KyMouse| 9.20.11 @ 3:28PM

One thing that few people want to discuss:

If the new nation of Palestine comprises Gaza and the West Bank (plus East Jerusalem), Israel will be required to give up even more land in order for those areas to be linked. Of course, that would split the land of Israel into two sections, with an enemy nation in between.

Neither nation would tolerate being cut in half.

What's the answer? The world's answer, of course, is for Israel to give up more land, as the "piece by piece" process continues. Israel would soon go from being about the size of New Jersey down to...Rhode Island?

Alan Brooks| 9.20.11 @ 7:55PM

gosh, why wasn't Jack in Wi first in line for this thread?:

"The Jewish state of Israel is murdering 1 million unborn Palastinian [sic] babies every year...
I killed a Jewish groundhog in my garden..."

Alan Brooks| 9.20.11 @ 8:00PM

Jack in Wi:

"I don't want to kill the goddamned Jews, I just want the countries around Israel to do it for me so I can kick back and watch the HD recorded explosions on the tube while I eat my charbroiled steak and think of how I killed that goddamned groundhog that was in my garden..."

Jack in Wi.| 9.21.11 @ 1:15AM

I am for peace, justice, and truth Alan old chum. The truth is that Israel stole the place 63 years ago and doesn't want to give the people it stole it from any money for it. It wants them to quietly just go away from the tiny bit that they have left.

There should be no Jewish state carried on the backs of the American taxpayer. Our Jewish brothers and sisters worked for many cneturies to get rid of Christian states and have mostly succeeded. Let Israel carry it's own water at the UN. It can answer for it's own many crimes against humanity. That is the whole point of stopping Palistinian statehood. Many of the leaders of Israel would be subject to the international courts.

I agree that it would be better if Mr. Abbas didn't seek Palistinian statehood. It would be far better if he demanded full citizenship in a united Israel Palistine, and massive reparations for all the murder, and theft of the last 63 years. If they don't get statehood, how do the internet warriors here hope to resolve this issue? Perhaps they want the Nazi solution, expulsion and mass murder?

Mike D.| 9.21.11 @ 7:45AM

Your freaking dillusional. Love the "our Jewish brothers and sisters" (nice cover line, gives Jack boot the "neutral" highground for the diatribes to follow) line and then the inevitable launch into the typical jack boot anti-Isreal "rhetoric, "murder" "theft" "crimes against humanity" and the rest of your bilge. The "Our Jewish brothers and sisters worked for many cneturies to get rid of Christian states and have mostly succeeded", don't know WTF you are referring to here in history other than it sure must have sounded good to yourself and makes no sense whatsoever. "Our Jewish brothers and sister" LOL, thats one of your best buddy.

Timothy L. Pennell| 9.20.11 @ 7:57AM

Like everyone else, I blame the Jews. Just, not for the same reasons.
I blame them for not ELIMINATING the Palestinians, long ago. I blame them for letting their ENEMY, hang around. Everyone who's ever played a sport, KNOWS, that you never let your opponent Hang Around. When you have him on the ropes, you PUT HIM AWAY.
Every War that Israel has fought, they've STOPPED, before the job was done. They let them hang around.
Every time the Palestinians fire rockets in to Israel, the Israelis wait. And, more rockets get fired.
I have tried to help my Israeli friends, with advice. I have told them that they should look to America's History, to find the answer. And, the ANSWER is General William Tecumseh Sherman, and his March to the Sea.
I told them that they needed to "Show" the Palestinians, that they could NEVER WIN. They needed to get it through the Palestinian's heads that the PUNISHMENT for attacking Israel, far outweighed any supposed Benefit.
I told them that if the Palestinians fire a rocket in to Israel? They should return fire with 10 Rockets. if they shoot 10? Then give them 100. If they send 100? Well....You get the picture.
They could live inside their houses, in their own Country, PEACEFULLY, side by side with Israel.
OR, they could live in RUBBLE, exposed to the elements, and eating food from the UN, for the rest of their lives. IF, they're still alive.
Last I looked, WE haven't had another Civil War, since SHERMAN'S Burned Atlanta to the ground.
We NEED to learn from History.
Never let your Enemy HANG AROUND.

loulou| 9.20.11 @ 10:45AM

Timothy L. Pennell, you are so right.
The Israelis have appeased the Palis time after time. All that does is whet the appetite of the barbarians. The Palis should have been expelled in 1967.

canuckistani| 9.20.11 @ 2:23PM

Isn't wholesale expulsions of a tribe exactly how this whole mess started?

Jews are smarter than that.

Alan Brooks| 9.20.11 @ 9:19PM

"Isn't wholesale expulsions of a tribe exactly how this whole mess started?"

IMO a portion of Germany ought to be given to Israel to move to- which is a nonstarter; but, still, Germany's actions were the direct cause-- the culpability cannot be ignored any longer.

Occam's Tool| 9.20.11 @ 11:12AM

Tim,

you are correct. Absolutely.

The advantage of the Palis having a State, however, could be that their terrorist actions will then be considered acts of war from a sovereign state, resulting in the ability of the Israelis to launch a max response that will smash those scumbags once and for all.

Al Adab| 9.20.11 @ 12:00PM

Tim, Occam:
Would not the Iranians be more than happy to provide a "palis" nation nuclear weapons? There is more at stake here than meets the eye.

Drunken Sailor| 9.20.11 @ 3:38PM

Not according to the Paul-bots, all Iran wants is Nuclear Energy. They would never dream of making a bomb, dirty or otherwise, to attach Israel or US via Hamas. Perish the thought.

Al Adab| 9.20.11 @ 5:31PM

True, and those who adhere to such delusions are to be pitied, and feared.

irish19| 9.22.11 @ 6:43PM

I don't think the Iranians have the bomb--yet. The paleoswinians, however, should they get a state, would not be able to refrain from continuing to lob rockets at Israeli civilians. The war would be short and spectacularly bloody.

CountryClassKook| 9.20.11 @ 4:08PM

::sigh::
How many times must the Western World have to be reminded of this. There is only one proper form of war: Total War. Destroy the enemy utterly, and allow no chance for them to ever threaten you again.
Since WWII we've forgotten this, and every time since then, it bites us in the butt.
You can believe Islam is and will wage total war on us, until every last infidel (read Christian or Jew) is dead.
This is a war for the future of mankind. Make no mistake, and we seem to be leaving Israel to do the work for us. Sad.

Jack in Wi.| 9.21.11 @ 1:17AM

More calls for mass murder and genocide from the scum of the earth. I thought Hitler was wrong with those kind of solutions?

Mike D.| 9.21.11 @ 7:49AM

"I thought Hitler was wrong with those kind of solutions?"

We know all about your views on Hitler, Jack. You have been more than clear on them.

Troy a young American student | 1.16.12 @ 4:30PM

Dear: Mr. Pennel, Alan Wi, and Alan Brooks (i.e. the neo-nazi, Fascist, Extremist, KKK, sniveling traitors to peace and justice, and advocates of bigotry and intolerance)

You need to get educated and stop hating...
Ignorant racist pigs like your current selves are the epitome of a turbulent-murderous society. Each of you have a lot in common with the muslim extremists that bombed the twin towers. There is no peace without understanding, and the hatred that is so deeply entwined in your partial logics has completely drowned out any shred of truth or validity that any of you might have originally possessed.

In order to fix your deep seated bigotry..
Follow the Steps Below:
1.)Learn how to love yourself
2.) Love your neighbor as yourself
3.) Get an education
4.) Go to church
5.) Reach out and help someone in need and stop focusing your energy on hating jews, and search for good ways to improve the world without the presence of violence and hate.

Troy a young American student| 1.16.12 @ 4:59PM

Furthermore...I believe that ignorance and bigotry leads to intolerance and irrational hatred. I believe that remaining ignorant could actually be an evolutionary foil, because the people who become educated and seek wisdom will make more money, be remembered with high regard, produce more offspring, and strive for peace that will reduce the chances of war and death for the next generation.

Also it can be asserted due to further investigation that people who seek wisdom and understanding are the dominant life forms in the gene pool. People who go on to improve themselves through education will find the solutions to disease, environmental concerns, and to social misunderstandings such as between the Palestinians and Israel.

Therefore I believe that it was not the Jews but Hitler and his Nazis who were truly inferior, because they possessed a self-defeating mindset where bigotry and intolerance could thrive unchecked. In that same vein, people in the twenty first century who are still racist, ignorant, or content with hate and violence should be considered as inferior. That is until they prove that they possess the motivation to improve themselves for the benefit of the society they inhabit, and for the relief of the right-minded people who must put up with their petty ignorance.

Troy a young American student| 1.16.12 @ 5:16PM

Only Mr. Pennel is totally excused from this comment because at first I took his comment to mean something totally different. Although the other two whom I mentioned are not let off the hook.

oldfart| 9.20.11 @ 7:58AM

How do you stop a blood feud that has been going on since Father Abram gave what amounts to the same blessing to two sons of different women? By MAD – mutually assured destruction. And the rest of that part of the planet along with it.

irish19| 9.22.11 @ 6:45PM

I always figured it went back to when God chose Abra(ha)m over Lot.

POST American| 9.20.11 @ 7:59AM

"We are creating (on purpose)
another ULSTER ---in the Middle East."
-British Foreign Office
1922

AGAIN, to get to square 2, we HAVE TO
break Rock--F--L--O 'benny violent' ranks
and take a good, hard look at capstone
contrivances, namely 'Order out of Chaos',
the setting up of a 'DIE--ALL ek-tick'
and elite notions of EUGENIST Social Darwin
'CON-flict'.

NOTE, these impacted zones of conflict are
unknown to history PRE the wonderful
operations of the deadly sinister Milner/Rhodes/
RIIA and Rock--f--L--O CFR, Globalist 'eel--eats'.
(ie East/West Berlin and Germany, Northern Ireland, Cyprus, North and South Vietnam, Korea etc.)

"Do you understand, we are entering
the Third World War -----which is everywhere,
on every level, their WAR AGAINST THE WORLD."
-ALAN WATT
(fearless online coverage of 'the plan')

-------------ANYONE care to DENY it?

Dan Mathewson| 9.20.11 @ 6:20PM

I deny! By golly, I deny it!

Alan Brooks| 9.20.11 @ 9:25PM

PostAmerican was TRICKED; he doesn't know that the Quetzalcoatl is the cause:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.....riano2.jpg

irish19| 9.22.11 @ 6:46PM

Don't encourage him.

Beat Navy| 9.20.11 @ 8:01AM

If the UN hands over, to the Palestinians, the lands occupied by Israel during the 1967 war, how long will it be before they force the United States to give back California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas to Mexico?

oldfart| 9.20.11 @ 8:10AM

California will most likely go willingly but Texas will put up a good fight and become an indipendent country again. Screw the UN.
Along those lines then the Roman Empire should be recreated. The EU is the perfect foundation for that.
The Chinese Em;pire still exists - just it is now called the Peoples Republic. Different name - same thing.

oldfart| 9.20.11 @ 8:18AM

Correction- if such a thing were to happen - UN mandate for California to be given back to Mexico then Northern California would refuse to go and most likely form the State of Jefferson as has been proposed several times, before and after WWII.

Mike 3/505| 9.20.11 @ 11:59PM

Beat Navy,

What class? I'm USMA 1980.

Regards,

Mike

Old Soldier| 9.20.11 @ 8:21AM

If a Palestinian state is created and they attack Israel, that will be an act of war. At which point, Israel will be justified in waging full-scale war against Palestine.

The Palestinian Arabs better be careful what they wish for.

oldfart| 9.20.11 @ 8:33AM

They are wishing for their 99 virgins - these people should be careful what they ask for - they just might get it. Too bad their motivation is in their loins, not in their brains. Always going to the brink believing your own propaganda is a suckers game. No one will win.

Melvin| 9.20.11 @ 8:29AM

Those of us who have been around the block a few times pretty much know what the end result of this drama will be.
The question is, is Israel going to wait till a more pro-Israel gets elected in the United States, or will it kick off the war right off the bat with very, very questionable support from the US.
Pray tell where is our illustrious Madam Secretary of State in all this? Oh she is sitting on a board with Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff whining that there isn't enough women involved in world politics.
"Hilliary, oh Hillary, could you pay attention for one moment here, we seem to have a bit of a very explosive issue percolating."
And there are people out there that still want this foolish, foolish woman as President. By all appearances Hillary Clinton has forgotten to take her medication for massive attention deficit disorder.

Kevin Dunn| 9.20.11 @ 8:32AM

Seriously, the "Palestinians" have made it plain that there is no limit to their demands. They want the 1967 boarders, then the whole of remaining Israel, and every Jew dead. Muslims want the entire world - no compromise. Don't forget, EVERY Muslim country was originally captured by armed force. There is not a single exception.

David W| 9.20.11 @ 8:47AM

I think perhaps there is something else to consider. If so-called Palestine does become a country, then there are certain responsibilities they have. If they continue to allow attacks on Israel to originate on their soil, then Israel would be able to go to the UN and complain. Given that the UN would not do anything about it, Israel could declare war and drive the Palestinians out of Gaza and the West Bank forever. Sure, it may cause problems, and it may cause Egypt and/or Turkey to try something, but really, do you think they would risk destruction of their own countries for the Palestinians? I think not.

Drunken Sailor| 9.20.11 @ 10:39AM

You do understand that the these people are part of a culture of death right? The fastest, most sure path for them to get to heaven is to die a Martyr.

That and the fact you think the UN has the answers shows me your not thinking this through.

Occam's Tool| 9.20.11 @ 11:13AM

Hopefully, the Israelis would NOT go to the UN and complain, but do the Nike---"just do it."

Clint| 9.20.11 @ 11:30AM

I agree. If nothing else it would make a great training excercise for their subs. But can you imagine the outcry from Iran, Egypt and Turkey. Not to mention the false outcry from Saudi. Duplicity is the name of the game for many of those regions.

Drunken Sailor| 9.20.11 @ 12:11PM

Poser, who are you. Clint never had a intelligent thought and this is not his usually cut/paste style.

And here I thought I was finally going to agree with Clint.

Alan Brooks | 9.20.11 @ 1:27PM

ha, ha, ha

Clint| 9.20.11 @ 1:33PM

That Wasn't My Post.

The Israel Firster Poser Punk Posters Are In The Building.

Clint| 9.20.11 @ 2:26PM

Says you.

Louis Jenkins| 9.20.11 @ 8:47AM

Go ahead and allow Palestine form a state. That will really change the state of conditions between Israel and Palestine. Israel will run amok thru Palestine, and for once, the issue will be finished. Of course the USA will continue to fund the lying Palestinians because that's what we do-with our money. Sickening.

VBMax| 9.20.11 @ 9:07AM

What kind of stupid people (Palestinians) constantly provoke a country (Israel) that has the means to turn their inhabitants and land into dust in short order. Till now the Israeli's have restrained themselves. What do you think would happen if their backs were to the wall?

Lizard King| 9.20.11 @ 9:50AM

Mr Pennell is on to something. There is a growing probability that Israel's retraint in not annihilating the "threat", will result in ever escalating violence. In the real world, the victors always dictate the terms of the peace. The Pal's will NEVER recognize the reality of a Zionist state. The Arabs will either vanquish the Jewish state or will vanquished themselves. All other purported "diplomacy" 'twixt mortal foes is but Western mental masturbation or Arab subterfuge.

Sean| 9.20.11 @ 10:03AM

We should just leave the UN. The UN created this mess as this land was under control of the British and was just fine. The British were pressured by many means to give it up including terrorism.

loulou| 9.20.11 @ 10:48AM

Why can't we end our funding of the UN and tell them to get out of NYC?

That suggestion gets a certain type of idiot all mental.

Jack in Wi.| 9.21.11 @ 1:22AM

I agree with that. Get out of NATO, The UN, the World bank. the IMF, Gatt, and NAFTA. Most of all get out of the Middle East. Enough American Blood and treasure has been spent there.

John786| 9.20.11 @ 11:27AM

Another day another zionist rant. Blah, blah and endless Blah. Death by Blah.
Folks you have a choice. A Jewish Isreal or a Greater Isreal. The religious nuts want a greater Isreal- the second coming and all that. Its obvious that Isreal needs to shrink substantially to remain a Jewish state. Time is on the Palestinians side- by my reckoning the isrealis have 20-25 years before they are are overwhelmed with Palestinians. Then the dream end it. Amen to that.

Skippy| 9.20.11 @ 3:07PM

John, I doubt it will take 20-25 years for the Israeli missiles to re-enter the atmosphere.
I'm quite sure they are faster than that.

Martin Owens| 9.20.11 @ 12:10PM

The Palestinians have repeatedly avoided anything that looks like a real solution leading to real peace. That is because they don't want peace.
Peace is their worst nightmare. They want to strangle the last Isreali child with his mother's guts, and they won't stop until they either get that, or they're all killed themselves.

Al Adab| 9.20.11 @ 12:12PM

The example of Gaza is very instructive. Here was a section, given autonomy, that could have become the Hong Kong or Monaco of the eastern Med. Instead they chose to launch war against their neighbor. Leaders make choices and the peoples involved suffer the consequences. What could have become a prosperous area is instead a failed one. Apparently hate takes precedent over potential.

Let us imagine a national state dedicated to the destruction of another national state. (Germany and France anyone?) In this instance would not other nations, such as Iran, be more than happy to provide weapons (nuclear) to the Palestinian entity? What then follows?

In view of settlemnt, the non-strategic areas of Jordan lost in 1967 could be returned to Jordan Creation of an additional nation in the area simply escalates the conflict and complicates the geo-political condition. As our Friend John above noted yesterday the status of Al-Quds remains at issue and is not amenable to compromise. Again, the missed opportunity given Gaza represents the best solution to the issues.

John786| 9.20.11 @ 12:39PM

There is only one solution that has any hope. Palestinian state based on 67 Borders with E. Jeruslam as the capital. there is n

John786| 9.20.11 @ 12:48PM

There is only one solution that has any hope. Palestinian state based on 67 Borders with E. Jeruslam as the capital. there is nothing else credible. Of course my preference would be forArabs and Jews to live in a single state. But from what I understand the Zionists don't want that. This Jordan talk will take us nowhere. Palestine is already recongnised by 80% of the worlds population. The Zionist project was still born at it's inception- the original sin- dispossed Palestinians. You reap what you sow.

Simon Templar| 9.20.11 @ 2:23PM

Arabs and Jews do live in the same state.. there are thousands of Arab Israelis, Arab businesses, and Arab Israeli representation in the government of Israel.

Palestinians dispossessed themselves, were offered a seperate state in 1948, turned it down, and immediately started war with Isreal.

Palestine is a fiction invented by the Romans and never existed. The area was dominated and occupied by foreign forces up until 1948 when the British, the last landlords left.

You are a liar and you will reap what you have sown.

VBMax| 9.20.11 @ 3:41PM

Arabs make up 20% of the Israeli population. From what I have observed in my travels, they co-exist just fine with the Jews and Christians with the exception of the few agitators in both camps.

Jack in Wi.| 9.21.11 @ 1:27AM

The Israeli Arabs are like our blacks under segregation, second class citizens with little hope of advacement.

Simon Templar| 9.22.11 @ 5:36PM

You are a liar. They have businesses, they have representation, and many are quite successful. This is well documented. We are discussing the Arab Israeli not the Palestinian.

Palestinians have segregated themselves, refused to recognize Israel's right to exist, thrown away multiple opportunities for their own statehood, and have waged a war of terror against Jews for over half a century.

Al Adab| 9.20.11 @ 2:27PM

Brother John:
As of course you know that solution will not eventuate. Assimilation into Jordan and into Israel is more likely. Don't forget the Gaza situation I mentioned to you the other day. Very sad that such an opportunity was lost.

You were right in your comment the other day John, Inshallah. Read 24:35. Truely He knows.

John786| 9.20.11 @ 3:00PM

24:35 indeed beautiful words Haji Al Adab. The Zionist want to associate the land but not the people. Nobody here believes me but the only way to keep the Zionist project alive is to grant the Palestinians statehood. Gaza represented an untenable situation hence the exit. The bigger prize was the west bank hence the break neck speed of the colonisation. Time will tell but they will nit succeed. I don't want to bring religion into this. But what palestine means to Muslim can not be described by any words. And they have come to our heart. They fight against gravity . If they want to settle amongt us they are welcome haji al Adab.

Al Adab| 9.20.11 @ 3:45PM

John:
While of course we disagree on the solution to this issue and on the matter of redemption as well, it is good that we converse. I shall offer prayer for you John in the hope that you may come to understand that Christ offers grace and that salvation comes from Him and not through works.

Margie| 9.20.11 @ 3:53PM

God bless you, Al Adab!

John786| 9.20.11 @ 4:10PM

Haji Al Adab
May be I agree with you in a way. For salvation will not come from deeds ( even though they are important) but by the grace and mercy of the creator ( Al khaaliq). Even the prophets will only enter his kingdom through his mercy ( as narrated by the seal of the prophets -Muhammed pbuh ) May the light of prophet Jesus enter the hearts of all believers Christians, Muslims & Jews. For his light is the light of Tauhid- the pure worship of the true everliving God.

Al Adab| 9.20.11 @ 5:34PM

Someday we must meet over coffee (I eschew the scotch in deference to your obligations) for I would consider it an honor.

John786| 9.20.11 @ 8:20PM

Coffee. That would be a pleasure. And you can tell me all about The haji thing. Evening all.

Jack in Wi.| 9.21.11 @ 1:24AM

John: You are one of the few sane people here. Those are the only options to settle this mess with any kind of hope for a peaceful world.

Simon Templar| 9.20.11 @ 2:12PM

No.

John786| 9.20.11 @ 2:28PM

Yes

Skippy| 9.20.11 @ 3:39PM

What a riot!
To even suggest that Israel submit to Palestinian occupation is delusional at best.
What part of "Never Again" don't you Mohammedans understand?
Want to effectively end Islam as a religion and culture?
Keep screwing with Israel.
Eventually their patience will be exhausted, and the missiles will fly.
Buh-bye Islam!
Don't you guys ever learn anything?

Al Adab| 9.20.11 @ 3:51PM

Skip:
The solution ultimately ests in a malgamation into Jordan of the non-strategic portions of the nation lost in the 67 war. The once possible Gaza model, as I mentioned elsewhere would be the best for all concerned. Prosperity for the population would overcome much in the way of jealousy and hatred.

Skippy| 9.20.11 @ 4:59PM

Agreed.
What will inspire the Arabs to accept that Israel exists and will continue to do so?
When will they see that they cannot force Israel to accept suicidal terms?
Hasn't there been sufficient evidence that terror will not win them their independence?
Aren't they tired of living in eternal squalor and resentment?
Is it true that reasonable non-violent Palestinians are harrassed and even murdered by their brethren?
How will this situation resolve short of the classical solution; total victory by one side and the crushing of all opposition by violent means?
I have trouble believing this is still going on. I defended Israel's right to exist in 5th grade in 1965.
Why does "to the victor belongs the spoils" not apply only to Israel when they win wars?
I appreciate your insight.

Al Adab| 9.20.11 @ 5:17PM

If only I or you or anyone had answers to the questions you pose. How to change the hearts of men? As you see above, John and I share certain aspects of belief yet differ on exactly the nature of The One. The common ground is where to begin for as human beings, there is more which unites us than things which divide us. To approach one another in Love and with respect is part of the answer. Sadly, such is in short supply at least among the leadership. The people on the other hand most likely wish security and prosperity for their families and stability for their futures. Such is possible once hate is left behind. Nonetheless, a very tall order.

Simon Templar| 9.20.11 @ 5:55PM

You change the hearts of men with the TRUTH. Those that have no respect for the truth are beyond redemption.

Al Adab| 9.20.11 @ 6:09PM

And that my friend is a Truth.

W| 9.20.11 @ 7:09PM

Al Adab,
You are very wise and a gentleman. I made a mistake about John 786, I thought he was a John that posted several months ago. This man sounds much more reasonable.

What did you think of the proposal in 1998 that Arafat rejected.

On a lighter note, I liked the Lebanese food festival. We had lamb kabob, grape leaves, kibbee(my favorite), rice, flat bread, green beans with tomatoes, and spicy chicken. The meditarranean cuisine is similar.
Next week is a Polish Food Festival.

Al Adab| 9.20.11 @ 7:43PM

W:
I have enjoyed my conversations with John. As I have those with you. I do not pretend to wisdom but attempt to be a gentleman. The stuffed grape leaves are very good and found in Greek cuisine also. Glad you enjoyed the event.

As to Arafat, he who was so duplicitous as to betray his own people to enrich himself. The 1998 plan could certainly have been the basis for a settlement as could what I elsewhere refer to as the Gaza model, truely a lost opportunity. I look forward to hearing more from you.

W| 9.20.11 @ 7:57PM

Al Adab,
I was busy at work the past week,

Clinton pressed Israel to accept the deal and Arafat should have taken the deal. I am not a Clinton fan but he did good work on this, and it was a missed opportunity. It seems sometimes people do not know when and how to say yes, and that the other side is offering a decent compromise.

Will report on the Polish food festival, any suggestions? We have three excellent Greek Food festivals here in June.

VBMax| 9.20.11 @ 7:19PM

I have to say you make a profound statement.

Rob| 9.20.11 @ 4:25PM

I wouldn't be surprised if the Obama administration declined to vote on the matter, saying that it did not oppose the formation of a Palestinian state at the right time, but did not think that this was the right time. This would be an attempt to reduce objections from Jewish supporters while not actually obstructing achievement of Palestinian goals. It would be similar to the Carter Administration's attempt to have it both ways re a UN vote opposing Israeli sovereignty regarding east Jerusalem.

RCV| 9.21.11 @ 3:00PM

President Obama has made clear that US stands with Israel. His speech was a forceful reaffirmation of that, as the Israeli government this morning acknowledged.

As Israeli Defense Minister Barak said after the speech, "'Once again it's been proven to all the doubters, President Obama is an ally and friend of Israel. The Obama administration gives backing to Israel's security in a wide, all-encompassing and unprecedented manner,' Barak said in a statement.

Barak expressed hope that Obama's speech and developments at the UN would lead to to the resumption of peace talks with the Palestinians.

The defense minister's sentiment was echoed by Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman who also called Obama's address 'the speech of an ally.' "

Simon Templar| 9.20.11 @ 5:53PM

All the good intentions and love in the world is not going to change a damn thing. All the concessions and land given by Israel has only served to encourage more violence, demands, and has not changed a damn thing.

Truth trumps both love and good intentions. Only the truth will set them free. When it comes to the Palestinians and the plight of the Jews, truth is in very short supply.

If you have any love for the truth then check out the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?f.....AuBc_cbXo0

Margie| 9.21.11 @ 12:10AM

Simon,

You happen to be in agreement with the God of the Bible. Jesus IS the Truth. (Jn. 14:6).

You have a love for the truth, and that is clear. Know that the more you speak it, the more you will be hated.
You will lose many friends, but the few that you will have will be fellow lovers of Truth.

"Truth is lacking, and he who departs from evil makes himself a prey. The LORD saw it, and it displeased Him that there was no justice." Is. 59:15.

"Jesus then said to the Jews who had believed in Him, "If you continue in My Word, you are truly My disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." Jn. 8:31 & 32.

I love your posts, keep up the good work.

no hussein 2012| 9.20.11 @ 6:04PM

They want Israel, they see this as a potential step.

POST American| 9.20.11 @ 11:33PM

"Freemasonry is a religion, an
ABSOLUTE religion of endless
revolution, the destruction of
ALLLLL that was --ALL in the service
of the 'Great Work'."
-ALAN WATT
(fearless online coverage)

----Exalting and 'bringing through' an eel--eat

-----Selective breeding

-------the controlled 'DIE--ALL--ek--tic'

---------'Order out of Chaos'

-----------the God rejecting 'Doctrine of Works'

-------------'bennie violence'

---------------'bennie factors'

------------------Social Darwinism

-----------------------EUGENICS------------------------

---------------WORSHIP OF LUCIFER-----------------

NOW----as FUKISHIMA and the Middle East burn------------What are you NOT getting?

sunglasses| 9.21.11 @ 12:51AM

I love your posts, keep up the good work.

Denise| 9.21.11 @ 4:18AM

Jesse| 9.21.11 @ 4:19AM

You change the hearts of men with the TRUTH. Those that have no respect for the truth are beyond redemption.
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Nancy| 9.26.11 @ 11:40PM

I think that Jack is right....If you actually look back Palestine was under British occupancy and after the Holocaust the Jews had no where to go the British let them move into Palestine. After British occupancy was over the British handed all weapons and power over to the Jews which then meant that they were now occupying Palestine. I don't know if any of you have ever actually been out there but I have and I saw how the Jewish soldiers first hand would shut down cities and throw gas out of their tanks and shoot while hundreds of innocent bistanders were around they are sick and are doing to the Palestinians the rightful owner's of that land what Hitler did to them and they all deserve to die a very painful death maybe Hitler was on the right track. I'm not worried because one day they will all get what is coming to them. FYI you morons there are Arab Christians who also live in Palestine and are being treated the same exact way. Also many White American protestors(one of them was Rachel Aliene Corrie ) have been killed by the Jewish army because they actually began to figure out what was really going one girl even got run over by one of their tanks. How sick is that, America our country is supporting people who are killing their people. If you want to make a statement about something make sure you are fully educated on what is really going on the only terrorist in this world are the Jews that are using weapons of mass destruction, occupying land that isn't theirs, doing experiments on detainees in their prisons, etc... you really need to actually go there and see first hand what is going on, and not just one side both sides. BTW the Palestinians are not allowed to carry arms only the police officers and they are only allowed a certain amount of bullets and they have to be returned at the end of their shifts. Also Hamas was not elected to run anything in Gaza they are occupying Gaza just like Jews are occupying Palestine they are killing innocent Palestinians everyday just like the Jews and nobody wants them there just like the Jews. Palestinians, Muslim and Christian, are peaceful people that just want to live their lives like any other human being in this world. The have a right to do so.

John Sanford| 10.5.11 @ 8:24PM

Nancy, you are a bigot. There are so many errors in your rant that there isn't room here to list them all. I will just take aim at the biggest lie. There is NO Palestine. There NEVER has been a Nation called Palestine, there is not now a nation called Palestine, there Never will be a nation called Palestine. There was a British administrative district named Palestine but that was all.The Brits passed title of about half it to Israel.
Arabs controlled both the Gaza Strip and the West Bank between 1948 when they captured them from Israel and 1967, when Israel captured them back. They were not made into a nation then, why should they be made into a nation now?