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Political Hay
The Third Rail Unplugged
Candidates need to study Marco Rubio’s Social Security playbook.
TAMPA — For decades now political consultants, especially those of the Florida sub-species, have been able to charge big bucks to advise Republican candidates not to say anything about Social Security during campaigns. It’s the “third rail” of politics, they breathlessly warn. Touch it and your political career goes up in smoke.
On the other side, consultants have cashed in advising Democrats to attack all Republican candidates on Social Security, early and often — to charge that these heartless villains are constantly conniving to snatch your widowed mother’s Social Security check from her arthritic fingers, regardless of what these candidates have really said or done on this issue. The Democrats’ court eunuchs in the main(left)-stream media have been happy enough act as megaphones for this scam.
This strategy — duck and cover on one side, Big Lie on the other — enjoyed some plausibility for the longest time. Countless candidates over the years found that just mentioning the words “Social Security” in Florida lost them more votes than mentioning the word “education” gained them. After all, Florida has the highest percentage of residents aged 65 or over — 17.4 percent — of any state. (If you must know — West By-God Virginia is second at 16 percent, Maine third at 15.9. Alaska has the fewest wrinklies at 7.7 percent. I can use that word because I turn 69 next month.)
But then the ideas of Marx, Darwin, and Freud also had some surface plausibility when they were first sprung on an unsuspecting world. And we wasted most of a century taking them seriously. But we’ve pretty much — save for in faculty lounges, news rooms, and behind some pulpits — de-constructed these three quacks. And it’s time to unplug the third rail too. A Florida Senate candidate showed us how last year.
The candidate who wrote the new rules for political discussion of Social Security is now U.S. Senator Marco Rubio of Florida. He didn’t just touch the third rail. He grabbed it. And he wasn’t electrocuted.
Rubio pole-axed political consultants and much of the commentariat by saying flat out on national TV, in a debate with his main Senate opponent on Fox News Sunday early in 2010, that Social Security had to be changed or it would go belly-up, more sooner than later, and the checks would stop for all. Rubio made clear than any changes, most likely to include raising the retirement age, would not affect current recipients, or people about to be eligible for Social Security. The changes would only affect folks at least 10 years away from retirement, who have time to plan for the changes. He repeated this message in his campaign throughout Florida.
Then a strange thing didn’t happen. Political consultants may have taken to their fainting couches after watching what they were certain was a political suicide on national TV. And political writers shifted into high dudgeon mode. Rubio’s opponents used every scare tactic the law allows. But to the surprise of orthodox thinkers everywhere, Florida’s seniors did not go into low earth orbit. The promised backlash didn’t happen. Rubio won his election by 20 points.
“Marco really cracked the code on how to speak about this issue and how to overcome it,” Rubio’s Communications Director Alex Burgos told me. “He raised the issue time and time again in national and Florida settings. He was attacked by his opponents on this. Millions of dollars of ads were run against him distorting his position. But Marco was honest about the challenges and solutions facing Social Security and Medicare. The electorate has a very good sense that these programs are going bankrupt and will bankrupt the country if nothing is done to reform them for younger people.”
The what-to-do hasn’t been established — though almost certainly they will have to involve raising the retirement age at some point and fine-tuning the way benefits are calculated. But a retirement plan that in its early stages had more than forty workers paying into it for every retiree being supported, and thanks to changing demographics now has only three workers supporting one retiree (and is looking down the barrel of a retiring Baby Boom generation), cannot continue without being changed.
Voters get this, even those without PhDs in arithmetic. The numbers just no longer work. For many Social Security recipients the worry has shifted from how much of a raise they will receive in their benefits next year to will their children ever receive anything at all.
Some of the scrutiny is shifting from candidates who point out that the system needs reforming to politicians who defend Social Security as it stands. If the status remains quo for Social Security, today’s 40-somethings will outlive the system. More and more Americans are figuring this out. The time is coming, perhaps it’s already here, when those who accuse anyone talking about reforming Social Security of trying to destroy it no longer get a free pass.
Though Social Security can, and must, be honestly discussed if the country is to avoid spending itself into oblivion, Rick Perry has found it’s not useful to refer to the still popular retirement plan as a Ponzi scheme. OK, the way the system operates today it shares many Ponzi characteristics, i.e., not enough new members (workers) to pay off the old members (retirees). But we gain nothing by saying this. And nothing was gained from Perry and Mitt Romney’s unedifying Monday night exchange on Social Security, much of which didn’t rise above the level of, “Nyah, nyah, nyah, your book is dumber than mine.”
Instead of arguing over which candidate’s book got it most wrong on Social Security, better to spend time studying the Marco Rubio play book on the subject. The facts and the arguments are on the side of Social Security reformers. Candidates are advised to stick with them. They still will be criticized, and their positions distorted, as Rubio’s still are. But the tide is clearly turning on this one.
And don’t worry about the poor political consultants. They’ll have to replace the part of their gravy train that has been fed by the Social Security third rail gambit. It won’t be easy. But these are bright and resourceful people. If you don’t think so, just ask them.
About the Author
Larry Thornberry is a writer in Tampa.
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Von Mises Jr.| 9.14.11 @ 7:40AM
Clinton broke new ground with his lies, but at least he was likable. Obama has turned the Democrat Party on its head. The difference today as compared to a decade ago is that most politicians are not believed anymore.
Just as the Jewish voters in NYC finally realized Schumer and Weiner were Marxist first and only marginally interested in the Jewish people, they voted for the Republican non-Jew over the Democrat Jew.
Well the seniors are not stupid either. When their savings go down and their prices go up, they no longer believe Obama that they should not believe their lying eyes. Tell them their checks may not go out, and they understand the money is not there!
Jack in Wi.| 9.14.11 @ 11:40AM
Perry and Romney are both dolts who have imploded already. The elites of the party are trying desperatly to find someone new. Paul Ryan has wisely turned them down. Is Marco Rubio their golden boy? Rubio isn't even native born if we use the same standards many attacked Obama on. No prowar Republican has any chance of being elected next year. Marco has shown himself to just be a mouthpiece of the Neocons.
Ron Paul dispite all the efforts of the media is tied with Obama. He is the only candidate with the intellectual and moral integrity to get us out of this mess. 60% of the voters want out of these wars within a year. Ron Paul will not attack an Iran who is no threat to us in any way. Let Iran be the problem of her neighbors, all of which are armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons.
75% of Americans want the FED audited. That is Ron Paul's signature issue. He is the only one with the expertise in banking and classical economics to return this country to peace and prosperity. He has been right on the issues of small Constitutional government, closing down our worldwide empire and ending all foreign aid to everyone. Over 75 % of Americans want an end to all aid now. The vast majority of foreign aid ends up in the pockets of Middle Eastern criminals and kleptocrats.
Ron Paul understands the problems and the solutions for Social Security. The only way to solve these problems without throwing Granny off dialysis it bring the troops home now, close up all the foreign bases, end all foreign aid, slash domestic spending and slash the military, spending by at least 50%. Paul is the soldiers best friend. He wants them home with their families defending these borders and shores, not those of the world.
Israel, the Arabs, Korea, Japan, and Europe are all rich countries well able to defend themselves. This country has bankrupted itself financing the defense of the world. Meanwhile those countries have used the money they should have spent on defense to finance their own Social Security programs. It is time to end this mess and the only man with the integrity and intellect to do it is Ron Paul.
Conrad Spiracy| 9.19.11 @ 2:56AM
"Rubio isn't even native born if we use the same standards many attacked Obama on."
Jack (off),
I've been mostly benevolent in my previous judgement of you, however it is now time for me to wake up and state the truth.
You are f*ck*ng delusional. Marco is true-blue, born and bred, American born, provable beyond even unreasonable (your position) doubt. We still can't say the same for the Narcissist/Communist/Racist-In-Chief.
Retire. Retreat. Regress even more. Get rid of your ISP and your keyboard. You have completely lost it now.
Paulbot!
Con Spiracy
EXCELSIOR!!!
crookedwren| 9.14.11 @ 7:51AM
Part of the key to Rubio's success is his statesmanship -- the WAY he says things, the WAY he will not be sidetracked into petty-sounding attacks on others.
These candidates need the lesson.
For Rubio and even Newt can teach them what to do during the next debate -- when, inevitably, a media person will pick at the sensitive particulars and watch WITH GLEE as the Republicans attack each other. NOTICE THE PATTERN: current leader gets asked (Bachmann first, now Perry), then Romney, then short rebuttal, then Ron Paul, who attacks both whilst bringing in other issues.
Newt Gingrich brings us to applause and to our feet because he brings the debate back from where it never should have been permitted to go. He brings it back to the reality: IF WE DON'T DEFEAT BARACK OBAMA, WE WILL PROBABLY NEVER RECOVER FULLY.
Bachmann knows better than anyone up there that if Obama isn't a one-term president, Obamacare is with us in perpetuity, IPAB death panels will be impossible to eradicate, and many will suffer because of it. She's got to stop the petty part of the attacks. It's LEGIT to point out that Perry's too-quick-on-the draw run to an Executive Order for the vaccination is something voters need to know. It's CONSERVATIVE SUICIDE to try to make it akin to Hitler's horrors pinning down children and injecting them. While I don't like the way Perry accomplished that (and I have my doubts about Perry on other issues as well), I agree with Newt that the GOP MUST MUST MUST MUST find and support the candidate -- those WILLING to run -- who can best defeat the Marxist currently in the White House.
The way to do that is to remain focused on THAT -- and STOP LETTING THE MEDIA CONTROL THE CONVERSATION. They are -- for the most part -- Lefties.
Pawlenty and Bachmann petty bickering hurt conservatives. So does Perry/Romney/Bachmann spats. When Newt Gingrich brings us back to the REAL "debate" -- what is the strength that each of these bring, which one of these folks bring enough conservatism to not only begin to repair this Republic but also which one of these has enough qualities to BEAT OBAMA.
Look, I'd love a Paul Ryan - Marco Rubio ticket. I think Rubio is a Statesman in the making. We haven't had one of those in a long, long, long time.
But Paul Ryan won't run. And THAT is a shame.
None of the candidates are perfect. They each bring things to the table with which I agree; they each bring things that worry me. I really like Herman Cain. I think Santorum continues to be a strong conservative. But he, too, allowed himself to get sucked into the "let's get the front runner" spat -- even though -- I know! I know! -- Santorum is forgivably so. He's a true believer. Bachmann is, too, but there is the case of the HepB vaccinations in MN -- but I doubt they were giving those to little girls. Don't know all the facts, but I've read a little on this.
We're setting up Romney here, folks, when we do these things in the debates. He's been at it for a long time.
Wish Paul Ryan would run. Chris Christie.
Marco Rubio as VP! with whomever.
VBMax| 9.14.11 @ 9:39AM
We must stop promoting Marco Rubio as a future President/VP. I like him very much (he's my Senator) but he's not a "natural born citizen" thus Constitutionally ineligible. All we are doing by continuing to call for Rubio on the ticket is legitimizing the eligibility of the current poseur in the White House. Yes, Rubio is a great asset and would make a terrific Senate majority leader.
TexasLighthouse| 9.14.11 @ 10:30AM
Marco Rubio was born in Miami. His PARENTS are not natural-born citizens. I guess that does make Rubio eligible for the highest office, does it not?
Drunken Sailor| 9.14.11 @ 10:55AM
Texas,
Depends on who you talk to. Some experts say his parents had to be citizens BEFORE he was born here. They were not yet US Citizens and there lies the rub. Personally I think that if Obama can be considered a natural born citizen with a Kenyan father (I do not believe he ever became a US citizen) then so can Rubio.
RCV| 9.14.11 @ 11:22AM
There are no respected constitutional scholars who conclude, and absolutely no judicial support for the position that a person who was born in the United States and was himself a citizen at birth is not eligible for the Presidency.
W| 9.14.11 @ 11:44AM
Obama and Rubio are both natural born citizens, born in the USA, and eligible for the presidency.
big bob| 9.14.11 @ 1:31PM
Hold on there bubba. Have you seen the research results on Obama's supposed SSN#? It showed up as bogus on the E-verify system. Documentation is out there. I'm just sayin....
RCV| 9.14.11 @ 4:26PM
Oh, give this nonsense up....
Al Adab| 9.14.11 @ 2:07PM
Gentlemen:
Any person natural born as a citizen includes those born to foreign residents legally (emphisis my own - it is arguable) in the US and to those born of an American citizen parent anywhere in the world. The qualification "or at the time of the adoption" was specificly placed in the Constitution to include Alexander Hamilton illigitimately born in the Carribean.
The current President was (sadly but true) born to a US citizen mother and is himself a citizen no matter where he entered the world. There is the question of the SSN and some question of the eligibility requirements for his scholarhsips which may be available only to non-citizens. Those, not his nativity, need investigation. Rubio is a natural born citizen and eligible for the office.
Deborah D | 9.15.11 @ 7:49AM
Thanks for this rational clarification, Al.
George S| 9.14.11 @ 11:35AM
It does. The mother has to be at least subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. Exiles from Cuba are not considered law breaking illegals seeking economic benefits but political prisoners seeking asylum. Ain't that the whole point of the Land of the Free?
Teaghan| 9.14.11 @ 2:02PM
Oh I effing dare the left to touch this. If the man was born on United States soil, he is a citizen. Isn't that why the mexicans deliver their babies in the US?
Dick Nome| 9.14.11 @ 9:38PM
His parents were legal US residents and he was born in Miami. Why is he not a natural born Citizen??
scotchieguy| 9.14.11 @ 10:18AM
Ann Coulter believes it will be a Romney/Rubio ticket in 2012. Not a bad choice. It is a good way to sneak in Rubio, and groom him for true conservatism in 2016. I'm not a huge Romney fan, but he seems more presidential than the rest, and he CAN beat Obama. Right now, that is all that should be focused on.
Drunken Sailor| 9.14.11 @ 11:38AM
"It is a good way to sneak in Rubio, and groom him for true conservatism in 2016"
Respectfully disagree. A Romney/Rubio ticket would be a good way to groom Romney as a true conservative. Not the other way around.
Al Adab| 9.14.11 @ 2:10PM
Romney is not and will not become a Conservative. What good, we might ask, does it do to replace this President with one who will not unwind the damage done? Would Romney ask for and sign repeal of health care, will he undo the "stimulus bills, will he defund eliminate or cut regulatory agencies? If not, what would be the point of his election?
YeloStalyn| 9.14.11 @ 2:34PM
But... but... but... he's a Republican! Isn't that supposed to be enough?
Al Adab| 9.14.11 @ 3:17PM
Never has been before.
Deborah D | 9.15.11 @ 7:51AM
Exactly, Al. I'm waiting for those particular questions put point blank to Romney. Will Fox do it in a week or so? I'll be waiting and watching.
USSAlabama| 9.14.11 @ 11:42AM
We do need to continue to groom Rubio. One of the most excellent minds in the political arena in this modern time.
His parents became citizens, right? And he was born here. Not something Barack Obama can lay claim to. He is a poseur, Rubio is not.
And to imagine that there was ever any competition between Rubio and a REAL poser - Charlie Crist! Bombastic!
Angus MaCaupy| 9.14.11 @ 7:58AM
No to Rubio for VP. That is the end of your career. VP is a post political career position after which you retire and has little influence on policy or legislation. We need Marco Rubio as Senate Majority Leader first. Don't sacrifice his career on the alter of political expediency.
Angus MaCaupy| 9.14.11 @ 7:59AM
That should be "altar" of political expediency.
RCV| 9.14.11 @ 11:23AM
Tell that to George Bush, Sr., Gerald Ford, Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, Harry Truman.....etc.
Teaghan| 9.14.11 @ 2:05PM
Thank God Algore wasn't on that list!
Dick Nome| 9.14.11 @ 9:42PM
Nixon lost in 1960, Truman and LBJ had to have POTUS die. Gerald Ford was never elected to the office. Bush 41 was a notable exception and did not gain re-election. VP is not the stepping stone to the oval office.
RCV| 9.14.11 @ 10:51PM
Yet in the 50 years that ended the last century, five men who were Vice President stepped into the Presidency. As good a stepping stone as exists.
USSAlabama| 9.14.11 @ 11:45AM
Angus, that is ridiculous.
Having an excellent future presidential candidate in place as VP is the way to keep the Presidency in your party for 2 - 4 terms.
YeloStalyn| 9.14.11 @ 2:35PM
Which is the only only reason I can smile when I think that Biden in VP.
Wow... what a way to not plan for the future. Not that it's any suprise with Zero, but...
RCV| 9.14.11 @ 4:28PM
I will bet a lot that his VP candidate in 2012 will be Hillary Clinton
Truth to Power| 9.14.11 @ 7:18PM
Wow. The VP might make the difference. I bet she won't want to be within a thousand miles of President Obama. Better start getting OT's steak money ready.
Dick Nome| 9.14.11 @ 9:45PM
Oh really. Where is the history of VPs getting elected to POTUS. Aside from one termer Bush 41, name the others. Same for Senators getting elected, as a rule it doesn't happen..
Deborah D | 9.15.11 @ 7:56AM
Marco would do better staying in the Senate, then returning to FL to become the governor. Executive experience is a good thing. But, I'd take him in any political position. He's such a bright light anywhere he is. His country certainly needs him.
martin j smith| 9.14.11 @ 8:08AM
This example is a lesson in the importance of a Candidate Presidential to articulate an idea that might turn off voters, but do it in such a way as to be taken seriously and not turn them off.
I think we should not see the Republican presidential race as a two or three candidate race but a six candidate race --lopping off
Ron Paul and John Huntsman. Both belong to the Socialists who can figure them out leave me out of it thank you very much..
As I have said, every candidate has imperfections and I have to admit that includes Perry,Bachman and Romney along with the others. I think ones ability to articulate and hone in on criticisms of Obama policies ought to be a significant criterea.
The reason: The winner must be able to handle not only Obama personally, but his entire team
of henchman including media people and assets.
S/he must be able to be poised and composed under extremely trying times. Make no mistake about it. this election will be filthy. Finally, Republicans running for President while going thru the exercise of showing their stuff must be very careful not to kill each other off.
USSAlabama| 9.14.11 @ 11:54AM
Hear! Hear! Martin.
That was the purpose of Reagan's rule on not criticizing fellow Republicans. Of which Ron Paul and Jon Huntsman are not. They should no longer be included in debate.
We the country, paid a huge price in '08 by not heeding that rule.
They do all (who are in so far) have flaws, but here is where we need to look at a rule from another famed conservative - William F. Buckley - "Always vote for the most conservative."
It should be the duty of the nominee to choose - and groom - the best next presidential candidate as VP.
Michael Tomlinson| 9.14.11 @ 8:22AM
There is only one candidate running for the GOP nomination who is willing to speak to the American public honestly about Social Security – Governor Rick Perry of Texas (no real Republican or patriotic Americans takes Iranian/Muslim terrorist apologist, RINO and neo-liberal Ron Paul seriously). As Mitt Romney and Michelle Bachmann proved, in their slavish political pandering, they're defenders of the BIG LIE and failed Democrat status quo. Only Perry had the courage to speak “truth to power.”
It was especially disgusting to hear Michelle Bachmann, who has called SS a “tremendous fraud,” piously defend the New Deal and constitutionally dubious Ponzi scheme (Terry Jefferies reveals the author of Social Security doubted its constitutionality http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46181 ). Her hypocrisy on this and HPV (see NRO http://www.nationalreview.com/.....y-i-miller) and/or her witless comments linking the HPV vaccine to cancer, based on pseudo-science akin to liberal myths of manmade global warning, may be why Gallup is showing positive intensity for her campaign waning. On the other hand Rick Perry’s is stable despite criticism of his debate style (Reagan also supposedly lost to Jimmy Carter in their debate). The only person who has benefited from Bachmann’s pandering is Mitt Romney who has gained by taking away from Bachmann and potential candidate Palin (as predicted the moderate Romney has benefited from Bachmann/Palin).
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 8:48AM
Dr.Ron Paul,
"When it comes to Social Security, we must understand that the system does not represent an old age pension, an “insurance” program, or even a forced savings program. It simply represents an enormous transfer payment, with younger workers paying taxes to fund benefits. There is no Social Security trust fund, and you don’t have an “account.” Whether you win or lose the Social Security lottery is a function of when you happened to be born and how long you live to collect benefits. Of course young people today have every reason to believe they will never collect those benefits."
Dan Hirsch| 9.14.11 @ 9:26AM
Clint;
Fine. The party is not going to "wake up" and discover Ron Paul. We know who he is and he is not a player. Rush Limbaugh said Ron Paul and Huntsman are not real candidates, plainly and repeatedly just yesterday. Good luck overcoming that.
The MSM debate organizers keep him and Huntsman on the stage so that the moderators can take bank shots at Perry through them.
Michele Bachman is joining that crew, especially with her breathless, un-vetted reporting of a supporter's story that Gardisil caused mental retardation in the supporter's child. She needs to woman up, catch her breath, and not panic. If she can't withstand a little MSM expectations manipulation, she may not be all that presidential, after all. Michele is not as pretty as she looks, candidatewise. It's still months to any actual voting; if she settles down and works on attacking Obama rather than Perry she could weather this little tempest.
Actually, the first candidate that realizes that attacking Perry rather than Obama is bad strategy will profit, if none do Romney profits.
And Romneycare and Anthropogenic Global Warming are enough to convince me that Romney is Obama Lite; he won't have the stuff to undo all of the bad, bad appointments and regulations that the Obama crew has made!
I'm not sold on Perry, borders are very important, but if nothing else, the guy can take a punch and counterpunch in a debate. So can another possible candidate, and she's had three years to work out her plans. I say Sarah Palin is not just out building her investment portfolio - I say she's building a solid foundation for a big launch. But then, I'm just saying...
DTOM
PS Imagine Barry up there taking all those shots! He'd make like the Wicked Witch and melt! One thought makes this fun, besides saving our country from complete ruination, that thought is watching Obama's big ears being plunged into the mop bucket then swooshing around the stage when any of these candidates debate him next fall...Think about it: you know he won't really practice, whoever gets there will have spent months in debates on the very same issues, and will hopefully use short, straight, right answers to hard questions while Barry uhs, and ums, and stammers, and stutters his way through long-winded, teleprompter-free, pointless obfuscations of his dismal record. It should be too, too funny - except for all the damage this president has done to the country...
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 9:37AM
The Tea Party already has discovered Dr.Ron Paul, Hirsch.
"Tea party activists are divided roughly into two camps, according to a POLITICO/TargetPoint poll: one that’s libertarian-minded and largely indifferent to hot-button values issues and another that’s culturally conservative and equally concerned about social and fiscal issues.
The survey, an exit poll conducted by Edison Research at the massive Tax Day protest on the National Mall, found that the attendees were largely hostile to President Barack Obama and the national Democratic Party — three-quarters believe the president “is pursuing a socialist agenda.”
Yet they aren’t enamored of the Republican Party as an alternative. Overall, three out of four tea party attendees said they were “scared about the direction” of the country and “want to send a message to both political parties.”
Palin, who topped the list with 15 percent, speaks for the 43 percent of those polled expressing the distinctly conservative view that government does too much, while also saying that it needs to promote traditional values.
Paul’s thinking is reflected by an almost identical 42 percent who said government does too much but should not try to promote any particular set of values — the hallmarks of libertarians. He came in second to Palin with 12 percent.
When asked to choose from a list of candidates for president in 2012, Palin and Paul also finished one-two — with Palin at 15 percent and Paul at 14 percent."
The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.
USSAlabama| 9.14.11 @ 12:03PM
Ron Paul will not earn the nomination for President. All of his supporters will sulk and have their own 'convention' like they did last time; and then show their displeasure and --not vote-- Like last time.
Clint, there is surely agreement with regard to shrinking government, but that is where it ends.
Al Adab| 9.14.11 @ 2:24PM
Clint:
To say that your guy will not be the nominee nor that he is electable is not to say that his ideas have no merit. Newt likewise is in that category. Do not confuse worship of the man, as The Left does, with adherence to ideas.
What we need, and quickly, is a candidate who will adopt the viable ideas from whatever source, seek to implement them and repeal the false assumptions of the current administration when elected. We need to ask every potential nominee if that is what they are will and committed to doing.
YeloStalyn| 9.14.11 @ 2:44PM
Very well put. I like a lot about Paul... so long as he's talking about the role of government in our lives. But as soon as he has to consider something in the foreign policy region he turns me off something fierce. When I heard him say he was OK with Iran getting the bomb I lost a lot of respect for him.
It is unfortunate that his ideas of the Constitution can't be married with someone with a real understanding of the Iranian threat. I am torn... I WANT to vote for Paul because he understands the limited role of government. I CAN'T vote for him because what good are my freedoms if we're nuked by Iran?
If Iran were a reasonable actor in the word stage, then Paul may have some legs to stand on. It was the fear of reprisal that kept the Cold War cold. But when you have a nation led by men who SEEK to die in the process of killing as many infedels as they can... there's no reason to work with. No room for compromise. If we leave Iran alone, do you REALLY think that all of a sudden they'll say, "Oh... I guess The Great Satan isn't that bad of a guy!" No... they'll just say he's stupid before still killing him.
Al Adab| 9.14.11 @ 6:08PM
A good analogy with Iran at present is perhaps the reaction of France and England to the German (Nazi) reoccupation of the Rhineland. A clear violation of existing treaties, the action was met with inaction on the part of the democracies to their later great cost. A stich in time... could mean a little thermo-baric action today may save a great deal of bloodshed tomorrow.
Mike 3/505| 9.14.11 @ 2:37PM
Dan,
"The MSM debate organizers keep him and Huntsman on the stage so that the moderators can take bank shots at Perry through them."
Can I borrow this? It's a great line.
Regards,
Mike
Dan Hirsch| 9.14.11 @ 5:00PM
Feel free!
DTOM
TexasLighthouse| 9.14.11 @ 10:32AM
We know he's a doctor!! Enough!! You people are looney!!
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 11:23AM
That upsets RINO-CINO's.
Con Chef (NB) | 9.14.11 @ 12:12PM
That you're a looney Iran Firster neo liberal whackjob just like your ole decrepit messiah, Ru Paul.
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 12:33PM
Now now, Con Job, you're just all upset & dyspeptic because Joe Flacco bitch slapped your Steelers.
Take two Iron City Beers & a Dagwood and call Tomlin in the morning
Con Chef (NB) | 9.14.11 @ 1:01PM
Steelers aren't my favorite team. Pro football, by & large, blows choad. Kinda like Ru Paul Iran/Palestine Fisters.
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 7:46PM
Spoken like one of Ricky Perry's Algore Cheerleaders, Israel Firster Con Job.
W| 9.14.11 @ 8:07PM
Clint,
Most of Ron Paul's support comes from his libertarian views on reducing the size and scope of the federal government. Those are the comments that generate the applause during the debates.
But when he blames America for the conduct of the terrorrists, specifically 9/11, proposes abandoning our ally Israel, and says Iran is a nice, peaceful country misunderstood by us, sort of like Luxenbourg, then he loses credibility.
His support would increase if he had a rational foreign policy.
If you want to help Paul, insulting everyone who disagrees is not the way.
And insulting the Steelers in favor of the low-life Ravens is definetely not the way to do it. The Steelers play the Ravens three times each year, twice in regular season and once in playoffs. We always let them win on meaningless season game, and beat them in the money game.
The Ravens are a carpetbagger team that moved from Cleveland to Baltimore because Baltimore gave them more of the taxpayers money than Cleveland would. In Cleveland they were the famous Cleveland Browns.
A true libertarian would not support the Ravens.
Drunken Sailor| 9.14.11 @ 8:58PM
"Michael Scheuer, who was the head analyst at the CIA’s bin Laden unit, Alec Station, and authored the books Through Our Enemies Eyes and Imperial Hubris, said “I thought Mr. Paul captured it the other night exactly correctly. This war is dangerous to America because it’s based, not on gender equality, as Mr. Giuliani suggested, or any other kind of freedom, but simply because of what we do in the Islamic World because ‘we’re over there,’ basically, as Mr. Paul said in the debate.”
Scheuer also agreed with Dr. Paul’s statement in the debate that the war in Iraq was a diversion from capturing or killing Osama bin Laden and that bin Laden was “delighted” that the U.S. is occupying Iraq as it has become a training ground and recruiting tool for new jihadists joining the movement."
Aaaaand, We Eagles Fans Don'tr Give A Rat's Ass About Your Opinions W.
Drunken Sailor| 9.15.11 @ 12:43PM
Nice Try Clint. Impersonating me now?
W| 9.15.11 @ 3:38PM
DS, I knew it wasn't you.
carnot| 9.14.11 @ 9:51PM
he was a gynecologist and obstetrician
George S| 9.14.11 @ 11:51AM
A lot of conservatives past and present made similar observations about social security as the Good Doctor. But a miniscule few have blamed the United States for egging on 9-11. That's at tough one to overlook unless you are a liberal Democrat.
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 12:36PM
"Michael Scheuer, who was the head analyst at the CIA’s bin Laden unit, Alec Station, and authored the books Through Our Enemies Eyes and Imperial Hubris, said “I thought Mr. Paul captured it the other night exactly correctly. This war is dangerous to America because it’s based, not on gender equality, as Mr. Giuliani suggested, or any other kind of freedom, but simply because of what we do in the Islamic World because ‘we’re over there,’ basically, as Mr. Paul said in the debate.”
Scheuer also agreed with Dr. Paul’s statement in the debate that the war in Iraq was a diversion from capturing or killing Osama bin Laden and that bin Laden was “delighted” that the U.S. is occupying Iraq as it has become a training ground and recruiting tool for new jihadists joining the movement."
George S| 9.14.11 @ 2:15PM
This is a Republican primary; conservatives do not use 'imperial' and 'hubris' to describe military action in pursuance of our defense against terrorism. If Paul wants to run as a Democrat, that's another issue. Like I said... conservatives, not the Michael Scheuers.
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 7:48PM
You wouldn't know Real Conservative Foreign Policy if it jumped up & bit ya.
Read The Founding Fathers & The Old Right And Get Back To Us, Asshat.
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 7:54PM
Neither would you.
You're a Liber-Tard, NOT a conservative.
Drunken Sailor| 9.14.11 @ 9:05PM
Tell Us What Washington & Jefferson said in Their Farewell Address & Ist Inaugural Address Respectively Israel Firste, Pseudo-Intellect Dr. Reich.
You're Scared Of The Tea Party & Our Tea Party Co-Favorite Presidential Candidate Dr,Ron Paul.
The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 9:13PM
Yeah, What He Said Nazi Dr.Reich.
Drunken Sailor| 9.15.11 @ 12:44PM
DR. Seems I have rubbed Clint the wrong way almost as much as you. He is impersonating me now.
carnot| 9.14.11 @ 9:55PM
ummm....Scheuer...whose politics none of us know.....was not responsible for foreign policy. his objectives were quite limited. we can discuss CIA's track record in predicting/uncovering the 9/11 attacks some other time.
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 10:22PM
Duuuuuuuuhh !
Do Your Homework.
Michael Scheuer is One Of Dr.Ron Paul's Foreign Policy Advisors.
hardcard| 9.14.11 @ 8:55AM
I'm old (64) and living in Florida. debbie wasername-slutz is a disgrace, that said, we've recently elected Sen. Marco Rubio, Gov. Rick Scott, and Rep. Adam West, we will return the USA to sanity, stay focused and vote!!!
Dick Nome| 9.14.11 @ 9:01AM
You are not old.
Al Adab| 9.14.11 @ 3:20PM
Clearly you are NOT old.
VBMax| 9.14.11 @ 6:45PM
Hardcard, we are the new "middle age".
irish19| 9.14.11 @ 8:00PM
Batman got elected to Congress!!??? You mean Allan West, right?
Dick Nome| 9.14.11 @ 8:59AM
Gee, Rube Paul said that??? What a revelation. Many of the rest of us have known that for a long time. Wow, what a guy. A firm grasp of the obvious. What's next, a confession that he's from Pittsburgh??
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 9:08AM
Other candidates are touching the third rail & parroting what Dr.Ron Paul has been discussing for years.
"Q: Are you still in favor of abolishing Social Security?
A: Yes, but not overnight. As a matter of fact, my program’s the only one that is going to be able to take care of the elderly. I’d like to get the young people out of it, just the younger generation, because there’s no money there, and they’re going to have to pay 50 years and they’re not going to get anything. I’d take care of all the elderly, all those who are dependent, but I would save the money from this wild spending overseas.
Source: 2008 GOP debate in Boca Raton Florida Jan 24, 2008 "
The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.
Dan Hirsch| 9.14.11 @ 9:29AM
So did GW Bush. So did my mailman...
Ron Paul = non-serious candidate.
Fuggedabowdit!
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 10:37AM
Wow!!!
Ron Paul thinks Social Security should be reformed?!?!?
OMG!!! WHAT a visionary!!!!
This guy is INCREDIBLE!!! Republicans LOVE him! Independents LOVE him!! Even Democrats LOVE him!!!
Ron Paul can do ANYTHING!!! He can also think ANYTHING!!!
For example, not only does he think that Social Security should be reformed(!!!), but...
1. His favorite ice-cream flavor is vanilla!!
2. He likes to take long walks...in the rain!!!
3. He's not sure what he's going to wear tomorrow...but he's THINKING about it!
4. He's fairly certain that he was abducted by aliens in 1965, and that they examined his rectum!
5. He thinks people should be allowed to keep MORE of the money they earn!!!
6. There's just too dang much government!!! (THAT is truly, like...like, WOW!!!)
7. America should NEVER have interfered in Great Britain's internal affairs when we started that wasteful, expensive Revolution!!! STUPID Founders!!!
8. The Crusades were AMERICA's fault!
9. He's MIGHT switch to AT&T to get a good deal on an iPhone!!!!
Good grief!! This guy is SO ahead-of-the-curve in his thinking!!! HOW did this country survive these last 235 years without "Doctor Ron???"
...Don't forget to eat your grass today, Clint, with the rest of the Paul-bot sheep...
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 10:41AM
Q: What do you think of Social Security?
Dr.Ron Paul,
It’s a mess. And it proves that the government is not very good at central economic planning, even for retirement. The money was taken from the people with good intention. We should do our best to return it to those that have taken it. But we need to allow the young people to just flat out get out of the system. Because, if you have the government managing these accounts, it’s not going to work.
Source: 2007 GOP primary debate in Orlando, Florida Oct 21, 2007
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 10:46AM
NEWSFLASH:
Ron Paul thinks that Social Security is "a mess"!!!!
WOW!!!! Is this guy brilliant, or what?!?!?
And his followers!!!! They're so damn innovative!!!! No cut-n-paste recycling of the same repetitive posts for them!!!! It's pure, unadulterated ORIGINALITY!!!!
Good grief!!! If Paul comes out and says that we pay too much in taxes to the Federal Government...
...OMG!!! I might actually SWOON!!!!
Social Security..."A mess"!!!!! It's just...AMAZING!!!
RON PAUL = OUR DEITY!!!!
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 10:50AM
"WALLACE: You talk a lot about the Constitution. You say Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid are all unconstitutional.
PAUL: Technically, they are. … There’s no authority [in the Constitution]. Article I, Section 8 doesn’t say I can set up an insurance program for people. What part of the Constitution are you getting it from? The liberals are the ones who use this General Welfare Clause. … That is such an extreme liberal viewpoint that has been mistaught in our schools for so long and that’s what we have to reverse—that very notion that you’re presenting."
The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 10:54AM
NEWSFLASH:
The BRILLIANT Ron Paul thinks that LIBERALS ABUSE THE US CONSTITUTION!!!!
OMG!!! NO ONE has EVER said that before!!!!! EVER!!!!
WOW!!! WOWSY-WOW-ZEE-WOO-WOO!!!!
Ron Paul!! Ron Paul!! Ron Paul!!!
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 10:56AM
"James Madison, our Constitution’s author, pointed out that the enumerated powers contained in Article 1 Section 8 strictly limited the context of “general welfare.” As president, Madison vetoed a federal highway bill in 1817 because such expenditures were not authorized by our Constitution and, moreover, were clearly the responsibility of the states, as specified in the Tenth Amendment. Yet the tendency of the Federal government has been to erode the powers belonging to the states in order to centralize them in Washington."
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 10:58AM
NEWSFLASH:
President James Madison, a supporter of Doctor Ron Paul, once VETOED A BILL!!!
We know this because THE BRILLIANT Ron Paul says so!!! Apparently, the BRILLIANT Ron Paul can actually READ a history book!!!
WOW!!!
This guy MUST be our NEXT PRESIDENT!!!!!
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 10:56AM
NEWSFLASH:
The BRILLIANT Doctor Ron Paul THINKS THAT you just CANNOT eat French Fries WITHOUT KETCHUP!!!!
HOLY SMOKES!!!!!
This guy is a friggin' GENIUS!!!!!!!
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 11:00AM
"Again, Madison had addressed this issue earlier, “It has been urged and echoed, that the power ‘to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States,’ amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare.” To which he replied “If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one.” Madison saw, in principle, the causes of the economic decline of our country over the past eighty years."
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 11:04AM
NEWSFLASH:
The BRILLIANT Doctor Ron Paul THINKS THAT Government can get OUT OF CONTROL!!!!
WHAT did we ever do before this GENIUS was around?!?!?!
RON!! RON!!! RONNNNNNNNN!!!!
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 11:08AM
HEY! LOOK EVERYONE!!!
Here's a clip of Clint discussing his Hero, THE BRILLIANT Dr. Ron Paul!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dgjpt0y440
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 11:13AM
Dr. Ron Paul,
" Notice that neither political party proposes letting people opt out of Social Security, which exposes the lie that your contributions are set aside and saved. After all, if your contributions really are put aside for your retirement, the money is there earning interest, right? If your money is in your “account,” what difference would it make if your neighbor chooses not to participate in the program? The truth, of course, is that your contributions are not put aside. Social Security is simply a tax. Like all taxes, the money collected is spent immediately as general revenue to fund the federal government. But no administration will admit that Social Security is nothing more than an accounting ledger with no money. You will collect benefits only if future tax revenues materialize as hoped; the money you paid into the system is long gone."
The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.
Joseph| 9.14.11 @ 11:20AM
Clint and Dr. Right
Do you guys have a job? You spend way too much time insulting each other, and wasting space forcing all of us to scroll thorugh your daily tirades.
We know Clint likes Ron Paul and Dr. Right doesn't.
We know you two don't like each other. Who cares?
Come up with new material or be quiet and read.
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 11:23AM
Bite Me, Asshat.
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 11:30AM
That was The Israel Firster Poser Punk Poster, Joseph.
My post was: " Clint| 9.14.11 @ 11:27AM
It's Called Free Speech Here In America , Joseph."
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 11:41AM
Bull.
That was The Israel Firster Poser Punk Poster, Joseph.
My post was: " Clint| 9.14.11 @ 11:23AM
It's Called Free Speech Here In America , Joseph."
Now Bit Me, Asshat.
Joseph| 9.14.11 @ 11:47AM
The first amendment applies to the government, so I can tell both of you to shut up.
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 11:56AM
Now Ya Got It, Joseph.
Welcome To America.
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 12:01PM
By the way Joseph, here in America The First Amendment applies to All Americans on all kinds of Topics.
Now, go read The First Amendment.
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 12:46PM
Me and Clint both work for the State Department, so there goes that argument.
Joseph| 9.14.11 @ 1:14PM
I wish you both worked for the State Dept. Give my regards to Hillary.
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 3:18PM
Maybe I AM Hillary...
...Ever think of that???
Joseph| 9.14.11 @ 7:10PM
You have a sense of humor, Doc.
If you are Hillary, tell us how you made that $100.000 on cattle futures.
Israel Firster| 9.14.11 @ 11:47AM
C'mon Girls, let's do A Ricky Perry Algore Cheerleader Cheer.
Give me a " Instate"
Give me a " Tuition "
Give me a " For "
Give me a "Illegal"
Give me a " Aliens "
Whatdayagot ?
" Instate Tuitions For Illegal Aliens "
Wooooooooooo !
Yaaaaaaaaaaaay !
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 1:50PM
That Was Israel Firster Poseur Punk Post Number Two.
They're Bankrupt.
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 11:27AM
It's Called Free Speech Here In America , Joseph.
Drunken Sailor| 9.14.11 @ 11:41AM
Read Clin't response to you Joseph and you will understand why people here do not like Clint. Well, that and is annoying habit of Cut/Paste the same points endlessly as well as using old polls to support his claims.
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 11:45AM
Yes, that and his recent habit of "imitating" himself and then pretending that it's others imitating him.
It enables him to release his "Id", but deny responsibility.
Like most Paul-bots, Clint is a disturbed guy...
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 11:54AM
You Israel Firster Play The Poser Punk Poster Game All The Time.
You Can Stop It.
Fish Or Cut Bait.
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 12:02PM
Gee, that's a pretty heavy accusations, Clint!
Got any proof?
Fish or drop dead.
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 12:37PM
Prove Me Wrong, Poser Punk Doctor Reich.
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 12:48PM
Clint,
asking someone to disprove a negative is silly.
Nonetheless, you ARE wrong, dim-wit.
NOW...Prove yourself right!
...Waiting...
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 1:45PM
You're Silly, because among professional logicians, guess how many think that you can’t prove a negative? That’s right: zero
Prove me wrong, Poster Poseur Punk, Dr.Reich.
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 3:20PM
I said "disprove", Einstein.
For example...PROVE that you're NOT stupid.
See? Can't be done...
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 7:53PM
Duuuuuuhhhhh !
Do your Homework, Dr.Reich.
For one thing, a real, actual law of logic is a negative, namely the law of non-contradiction. This law states that that a proposition cannot be both true and not true. Nothing is both true and false.
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 8:23PM
Clint-wit,
We've warned you to stay off of Wikipedia, haven't we???
There's no reason for you to look dumber, now is there??
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 9:19PM
We've warned you to stop playing your Pseudo-Intellect Elitist Wannabe Games, Dr.Reich.
You're Wrong Again.
That ain't Wiki, Imbecile. That's Logic 101.
You're An Academic Buffoon.
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 8:24PM
Cling thinks a logician is a guy who cuts down trees...
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 9:22PM
Doctor Reich is a Pseudo-Intellect Elitist Wannabe,who thinks that you can't prove a negative.
You're an uninformed academic moron.
Joseph| 9.14.11 @ 2:43PM
There is wisdom in your words, Dr. Right. Since you are a doctor, can you help him, or recommed a referral?
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 3:19PM
Sadly, among us walk a small but definite percentage of utterly incurable morons...
Clint belongs in that category.
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 7:56PM
Dr.Reich is a Pseudo-Intellect Elitist Wannabe ,who thinks he can Bullshit his way over We,The Great Unwashed.
The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 8:20PM
A Wannabe?!?!
Look here, Clint-wit...I am a GENUINE pseudo-intellectual elitist, and don't you forget it!!!
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 9:25PM
Sadly, Pseudo-Intellect Elitist Wannabe, Dr.Reich doesn't even know that any logician will tell ya that you can prove a negative.
You're An Academic Fraud.
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 11:51AM
The Drunk Is Scared Of The Tea Party & Our Tea Party Co-Favorite Presidential Candidate Dr.Ron Paul.
Drunken Sailor| 9.14.11 @ 3:15PM
Sailor drinks because Clint cries.
Al Adab| 9.14.11 @ 5:26PM
DS:
My theory is Clint is myopic. Scotch might help.
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 8:00PM
Al Adab appears to be colonoscoptic.
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 8:26PM
Scotch might help who?
Him, or me?
Drunken Sailor| 9.15.11 @ 12:46PM
Al, I agree but the only way to help Clint with scotch is to seal him in a barrel of it and plug the hole.
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 7:50PM
Drunk Makes Excuses For Bein' A Drunk.
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 7:58PM
I Am A Total Asshat.
Drunken Sailor| 9.14.11 @ 8:03PM
I totally love licking asses.
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 8:11PM
Tell us something we didn't already know, Clint!
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 9:29PM
O.K.
YoMama had to tie a pork chop around her neck to get your dog to lick her.
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 8:14PM
I Love Licking Asshats.
Doctor Right | 9.14.11 @ 9:30PM
I Love Licking Asshats With Poop on Them.
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 8:03PM
Are Not. I Am.
Asshat.
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 8:05PM
Asked And Answered Ad Nauseum, Asshat.
I Am The Asshat. And You Had Better Quit Using My Name.
Asshat.
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 8:09PM
We Know You Think Your Funny Mr. Israel Firster Ricky Perry RINO-CINO Dr. Reich, But Your Not Funny.
Your Not Funny, Your Dumb. And You've Met Your Match In Me!!
Asshat.
Doctor Right | 9.14.11 @ 9:34PM
Let's do a Ricky Perry Algore Cheerleader Cheer, Girls.
We Want Bibi For President !
We Want Bibi for President !
Go Israel First !
Woooooooooooooo !
Yaaaaaaaaay !
Doctor Right | 9.14.11 @ 9:32PM
I volunteered to be Bibi Netanyahu's Asshat.
Doctor Right | 9.14.11 @ 9:30PM
I Am The Nazi Faggot.
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 9:39AM
Memo to Hirsch:
They ain't running for President.
The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.
Dan Hirsch| 9.14.11 @ 5:03PM
Clint,
It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings...
DTOM
PS
I took a vacation day from you all today. I really enjoyed it. I just wish Doc Right would stop sticking you with sticks, you do squeal so...
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 7:59PM
Your mom sings?
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 8:01PM
Dan, that was Clint using my name.
Doctor Right | 9.14.11 @ 9:36PM
Clint, that was Dan using my name.
Dan Hirsch| 9.15.11 @ 10:02AM
I DO NOT USE ANYBODY ELSE'S NAME. I USE MY OWN. DO YOU?
Don't Tread on Me...
PS:
As to my mother - she weighs what she did when she was in high school, after having and raising six kids, all of whom got degrees AND jobs. And forget trying to infer she was fat in high school - she was thinner than you are and were, proportionately.
Drunken Sailor| 9.14.11 @ 8:04PM
Talkin' about Pigs, Is Your Old Lady Singin' Tonight, Israel Firster Hirsch.
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 8:17PM
That Was Actually Me, To.
I Like To Spread My Asshat-Ness Around.
I Like To Spread Asses, To, But That's Between Me And Ron.
Doctor Right | 9.14.11 @ 9:40PM
That was actually Me being Drunken Sailor.
We're licking each other now.
We lick each other's package.
Tee, Hee ,Tee, Hee !
Dan Hirsch| 9.15.11 @ 10:09AM
Sticks and stones - aren't you the brilliant debater!
I suppose you think we should attack Israel if they attack to defend themselves, don't you.
And you would send your kids to play in the sandbox, even though you saw the rattlesnake coiled there...
Israel first? No, not first. But not bogus Palestinian refugee claimants first! How about you? Is it Muslim Brotherhood first for you?
Only an idiot would not defend his allies' interests and expect them to defend his own.
Only a supreme idiot would undercut his allies' interests and expect them to remain allies.
What's the point in pretending to have allies? They'll leave you in the lurch, just when you need them most. Is that the kind of friend/ally you are you stupid Drunken Sailor? Is that the kind of ally the US should be?
PS
So are you a drunken sailor as in soused yachtie? Has the captain locked you in the bilge and made you drink it one time too many?
Von Mises Jr.| 9.14.11 @ 10:20AM
VBMax has it all wrong. Rubio is the real deal, and his credentials are much more solid than Obama. Rubio's parents were Cuban citizens, but the Courts have interpeted "Anchor Babies" as legitimate, like it or not.
Obama left the country therefore forfeiting his citizenship. He also has a bogus Social Security Number. So it will be a hoot to see the Democrats become full-flegged BIRTHERS.
Dick Nome| 9.14.11 @ 10:31AM
Scuz' me, but Marco Rubio wasn't an anchor baby. His parents were legal residents and he was born here. He is a natural born citizen.
martin j smith| 9.14.11 @ 10:21AM
I agree with the argument that the debate ought not be about killing each other off but about Obama and his policies together with how the candidate would be different in their approach. What are their overall goals. I would like to see more of that. They all have weaknesses. But lets not handicap them to the point of doing the work of the Socialists that helps Obama. This is why I keep an open mind and am mindful of the three way circus in the last debate.
Redstateboy| 9.14.11 @ 10:37AM
My sweetheart - Betty - grew agitated when I argued Perry's point that Social Security IS a Ponzi Scheme and Not to count on Social Security when we're retirement age. Betty is 51 and I am 53. Betty was upset because she is Expecting to recieve an SS check when her time comes and didn't appreciate my demographics, economic analysis and the fact that Social Security is already now paying out more than it's taking in. Two things I learned from this.. One: there are millions of people who are as ignorant as my sweetheart and Two: never mention this to Betty again.
YeloStalyn| 9.14.11 @ 2:50PM
It is very unfortunate to discover that those we love are often so far askew of political realities and facts.
My grandmother was a great conservative. When my mother and I eventually discussed politics (not her favorite subject) I was amazed at how illogical she was and completely ruled by emotion. Then there's my wife's grandmother who I dearly love. I can't get her to understand that she doesn't have the right to make me work for her retirement. She keeps thinking that it's "her" money never realizing that "her" money is gone and that all that is left if mine, for the brief time it's in the coffer before it's stolen too.
1ConservativeUSA| 9.14.11 @ 11:01AM
I am 47 years old and I have been having the conversation about the folly of Social Security since I was 27.
I welcome true conservatives to the conversation who promote private Social Security accounts, and who denouce the false reforms such as means testing, raising the SS retirement age, increased SS Tax, increased taxability of SS benefits and the denial of SS benefit inflation adjustments.
Star Parker eloquently made the point regarding those who say we should "save" Social Security. Its a program that is going to bankrupt the nation. Worse, it is philosophically opposed to our founding principles of individual liberty, limited government and private property rights. Is this something we really want to save, or would we rather save ourselves?
My skin in the game is that I will forego any Social Security benefit due to me under the present plan, if I could opt out of the current system and start my private Social Security account the next day.
How do we fund current benefits and a reasonable safety net? Simple, force Congress to do its job and eliminate programs the governments have no business funding. There are plenty of tax dollars currently being wasted that would fund a safety net and remaining benefits for those 55 and over.
Al Adab| 9.14.11 @ 2:19PM
The solution to the SS issue is actually a rather simple one if we ignore the political demagogury sure to follow.
If the payroll deduction is left in place BUT the monies placed in the emplyees self-directed investments an IRA, 401, Mutual fund, annuity, whatever, the money is acutally put to work in the economy and is then available to the account owner at say age 62 to use a that owner sees fit. It could for example, pay off mortgages, or pay medical expenses, it could provide retirement income of course. That use would be at the owners discretion. It would belong to the person, not be a claim against the government for a pension.
The capitalization of the American economy would hugely increase, business expansion would follow and of course employment would grow exponentially. To say nothing of the fact that at whatever age is chosen the investment holders worth would be huge. Simply figure 7% compounded earnings over ones working life and the ammount, depending upon lifetime earnings, approaches a milion dollars. Not a bad nest egg.
YeloStalyn| 9.14.11 @ 2:54PM
We could not take any of it in the first place, let it be spent either immediately by those who earned it or by those who recieve it as in investment by the wiser among us. You get the private accounts, but the citizen maitains access to THEIR money at any time, not just when they're 62. You get the economic boost of that money being spent and circulated. And you get the government out of your life. Now where's the downfall other than feeling bad about people suffering from poor decisions in life (which isn't a function of government in the first place)? Besides... if you feel bad for them and their bad decisions... then you're free to help them! What a notion!
Al Adab| 9.14.11 @ 3:31PM
Yelo,
Did I mention that through the deduction process the earnings and "contributions" remain tax free until taken? Yes, it is the earners in the first place and not the governments, however I can envision the universal pension plan since the money does acrue to the owner and not to the government as now. Total elimination of "the system" is unlikely if not impossible however good elimination may in fact be. Like so many issues in our public debate, the underlying problem is the welfare state that suposses we- the collective- are somehow responsible for one anothers needs.
YeloStalyn| 9.15.11 @ 12:21PM
We often feel that the welfare state mindset has become irreversable. But... as much as I hate to bring up this exampel because of what sort of posters will likely take over the conversation... look at the Ron Paul question in the debate the other day about what should happen to a man in his 30s if he makes bad choices. The crowd was very enthusiastic about the idea of personal responsibility. Polls often reflect this attitude. Michigan just put a 4 yr lifetime limit on welfare payments. The tide is turning and if we continue to educate people on the PRINCIPLE of the matter... that SS is not a government function and as such, when the government gets involved it becomes crooked, corrupt, and often ineffecient... then the people will begin to turn wholesale.
Besides... what you are talking about is a wise financial investment on the part of the worker. However... you are not letting it be their choice and THAT is where I take issue. Not that the pragmatism of the plan is bad... it's not. In fact, it's really smart. It's the principle of the thing. And I will go down swinging believing that the core difference between a true conservative and a liberal is pragmatism versus principle. A true conservative will always err on the side of principle, even if it allows for the practicle outcome of something less than desired. Men can either be free to be equal, or they can be equal without any freedom. Those are our only choices. I will always choose the first... even if it means that things may not actually end up beign equal.
Con Chef (NB) | 9.14.11 @ 12:16PM
Israel Firster. Jesus, could there be any better indication of someone's blantant anti Semitism. Hey Clit, tell us more Palestine/Iran Fister.
You Islamist apologists would be hilarious were you not so dangerous to the rest of us with your Chamberlain-esque world view. Tell us all about how Ru Paul will bring us more "peace in our time." You & the rest of the Ru Paulites are as laughable as Chamberlain is.
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 12:42PM
Dr.Ron Paul's Foreign Policy Advisor Michael Sheuer, Former CIA Chief of The bin Laden Unit,
" On Iran, The President Should,
2.) Publicly state that there will be no U.S. surprise attack on Iran, and no U.S. attack at all on Iran unless the president asks for a formal declaration of war and the Congress votes its approval in a constitutional manner.
3.) Call in Israel's ambassador to the United States and tell him that we understand that Israel believes Iran is a threat to its survival, and that we agree that Israel has every right to defend itself. If Israel believes it must go to war with Iran, then so be it. But also tell the ambassador that if Israel attacks Iran, the U.S. administration will declare U.S. neutrality in the war and immediately cut off military and financial support to all combatants in the war."
The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.
Doctor Right| 9.14.11 @ 12:50PM
...Yawn...
Been there, done that, Clint-wit.
You got any new cut-n-pastes this month???
Drunken Sailor| 9.14.11 @ 8:07PM
Dr.Reich Is Scared Of The Tea Party & Our Tea Party Co-Favorite Presidential Candidate Dr.Ron Paul.
The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.
Con Chef (NB) | 9.14.11 @ 1:06PM
Repeatedly posted & should be flagged as "spam," but I'd settle for a "flag as insipid" button. Lord Almighty, you Ru Paulites are as bad a bunch of messianic KoolAid drinkers are the Obamunists are. Drink up, losers. Because you'll need all the "electric KoolAid" you can handle one Ru Paul is relegated to the pile of historical has-been Presidential candidates. And we should also relegate him to the same ash heap as his foreign policy clone, Chamberlain.
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 1:40PM
Dr. Ron Paul,
“Our military’s purpose is to defend our country, not to police the
Middle East.
“As the President prepares to send even more support to Egypt, we should
be reminded that it was our foreign aid that helped Mubarak retain power
to repress his people in the first place. Now we have to deal with the
consequences of those decisions, yet we keep repeating the same mistakes.
“I am not the only one who can see the absurdities of our foreign
policy. We give $3 billion to Israel and $12 billion to her enemies.
Most Americans know that makes no sense."
The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.
Dick Nome| 9.14.11 @ 3:13PM
We are not policing the Middle East (maybe Obama is), we are defending Israel's soveriegnty and our Soldiers/Marines are arranging for the jihadis to meet their 72 virgins. The jihadis have volunteered for this.
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 7:26PM
We have No Military Treaty with Israel, Asshat Israel Firster Agenda Dick.
The Israeli's can deal with their own Middle East Food Fights.
Al Adab| 9.14.11 @ 3:24PM
Take it from one who knows Clint, wrong on all counts.
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 7:32PM
Dr.Ron Paul's Foreign Policy Advisor Michael Scheuer,Former CIA Chief of The bin Laden Unit,
" On Iran,The President Should,
3.) Call in Israel's ambassador to the United States and tell him that we understand that Israel believes Iran is a threat to its survival, and that we agree that Israel has every right to defend itself. If Israel believes it must go to war with Iran, then so be it. But also tell the ambassador that if Israel attacks Iran, the U.S. administration will declare U.S. neutrality in the war and immediately cut off military and financial support to all combatants in the war.
4.) Speak to the American people and tell them to expect to be brutally propagandized by U.S. citizen Israel-Firsters through AIPAC, their ubiquitous media shills, and the men and women they own in the U.S. Congress and federal bureaucracy. Urge Americans to ignore this effort by U.S. Israel-Firsters to get them to send their soldier-children to fight in a religious war in which the U.S. has no genuine national interest at stake, and in which U.S. participation would further bankrupt the country, require the reintroduction of conscription, and put America at war with all of the Muslim world -- Shia and Sunni -- for the foreseeable future."
The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.
JimBob39| 9.14.11 @ 1:15PM
This is amazing. An article about social security and the author doesn't know, apparently, that Thaddeus McCotter a five term Republican representative from Michigan and an announced candidate for the Republican nomination for President, filed actual legislation on Sept 12 (two days ago) to save social security. His plan does not cut benefits, does not raise the retirement age, and does not raise taxes. The actuary for the Social Security Administration has stated that the plan will restore solvency to Social Security and will reduce the deficity. If Mr. Thornberry will go to McCotter's website, www.McCotter2012, he can read the legislation and see a video of McCotter discussing his legislation at the Heritage Foundation. McCotter has filed an actual bill that you can read rather than just pontificate about what should be done.
JimBob39| 9.14.11 @ 1:20PM
In the sixth line, that should be deficit not deficity. Also, the website for Thaddeus McCotter is www.McCotter2012.com
Marc Jeric| 9.14.11 @ 4:01PM
Social Security is the largest by far Ponzi scheme ever in the world history, ever since Lyndon Johnson placed the SS taxes in the general spending fund and replaced them tith worthless IOU's. Everybody thinks that an employee with an annual salary of $106,000 pays only about $6,200 in SS taxes; not so. His employer reduced his salary by that amount while sending $6,200 to the SS administration in the employee's name. The the employee must pay income taxes, state and federal on that $6,200 SS tax - say another $2,400 per year. So his total cost is not $6,200 but $14,800 per year. Now place that amount every year into a tax-free municipal bonds funs and run the thing for 40 years - that is the real cost of his SS tax! Many millions of dollars! And then he gets about $1,800 per month only! for another 10 years of his life. What a gigantic theft!
POST American| 9.16.11 @ 12:16AM
-------------------BOTTOM LINE----------------------
--Great Tavistock approved '90's Show'
DIS-traction!
NOW ---back to 2011.
One and all, DO CHECK OUT
OXP Radio
'Stanley Kubrick Moon Landing HOAX'
with Jay Weidener
The interviewer is drippy but Weidener's
riveting on Kubrick (he's made docs on
Kubrick) ---and, himself a resident of the
west coast, on the Globalist FUKISHIMA
world nuclear disaster and budding DEPOP
OP.
Oh, and remember, he's laying this out
in June ---thinking that only a couple
of reactors are, perhaps, leaking.
We now know that 5 of the FLAWED
GE reactors are in a state of absolute
full MELTDOWN.
------AGAIN, special thanks to GE and,
of course, the TAXFREE Globalist Jeff
I-Melt---down, for their sterling sense of
decency in the face of this catastrophic
DISGRACE.
jgo| 9.18.11 @ 3:00PM
When it comes to getting Obummercare, the Socialist Insecurity Abomination, Medicare and Medicaid off our backs, Rubio is just another wimp.