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Loose Canons
Petraeus Reprises Sisyphus
Gen. David Petraeus will be sworn in today as CIA director — politically his toughest mountain yet.
(Page 2 of 2)
Petraeus, by his reputation and experience, is precisely the right person to make the case that the “EITs” have to be restored. President Obama, in one of his first acts, prohibited them. But now, after the CIA found Osama bin Laden, the value of the EITs cannot be questioned.
Petraeus can revive the enhanced interrogation techniques by starting to talk about their absolute value as two of his predecessors — George Tenet and Gen. Mike Hayden — have gone on record to say.
As I wrote last year, Tenet’s memoir says that what the terrorist detainees gave us under the EITs “was worth more than the CIA, NSA, the FBI and our military operations had achieved collectively.” Hayden, in a June 2 op-ed in the Wall Street Journal, credited the EITs — used on three detainees — for leading the CIA to bin Laden. Given their value, and that these techniques are not torture, Petraeus could — and should — build a case to resume their use. But to do that, he will have to take on his president and Eric Holder.
Petraeus has probably trekked up mountains in Afghanistan that were easier to climb than that political hill. He can either make the attempt, or fail in his principal mission: to transform the CIA into the effective intelligence agency our nation needs.
In the Iraq and Afghanistan counterinsurgencies, Petraeus’s Sisyphean performance can be forgiven because of the constraints imposed on his command by presidents and adversaries. The terror-sponsoring nations (such as Iran, Syria and Pakistan) were — and remain — immune to action which could have enabled some permanent results from Petraeus’s counterinsurgency campaigns. There will be no forgiveness if Petraeus fails at CIA.
Our nation was vulnerable on 9/11 because of successive failures in gathering and analyzing intelligence. The Iraq war was begun, in good faith, on the basis of another massive intelligence failure. And still — a decade after 9/11 — we still don’t have reliable, penetrating intelligence on Iran, China, North Korea or even WikiLeaks.
Current, accurate and well-analyzed intelligence is the foundation of national policy. Without it, national security policymaking is nothing more than guesswork.
About the Author
Jed Babbin served as a Deputy Undersecretary of Defense under George H.W. Bush. He is the author of several bestselling books including Inside the Asylum and In the Words of Our Enemies. You can follow him on Twitter @jedbabbin.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (68) | Leave a comment
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Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 7:36AM
You are correct, if/when we leave, Iraq and Afghanistan go the way of Cambodia in '75:
bloodbath.
Jack in Wi.| 9.6.11 @ 10:40AM
The wars have been a total flop. The General has just been a public realtions face on what is going on. He moves from job to job because the politicians don't know what to do except move people around so it seems like something is being done.
All we did in Iraq is turn it over to the Shia friends of Iran. That is all we got for over 5000 killed, 50,000 wounded and trillions spent. afganistan is going the way of Iraq. well Bin Laden is finally dead. I guess. So why not bring the troops home now?
Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 10:56AM
DARPA, one might suppose
carnot| 9.6.11 @ 5:28PM
that's actually pretty funny!
WJ| 9.6.11 @ 3:48PM
It's been a bloodbath already. A pointless waste that cost money, lives and strengthened Iran.
Al Adab| 9.6.11 @ 5:51PM
I am sorry, but bloodbath it is not. Fewer dead than on Omaha beach. The error is the attempt at "nation building" which is a mirage not a policy.
Occam's Tool| 9.6.11 @ 8:54PM
Correct, AL!
Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 9:23PM
FYI Timbo:
In the '70s I did okay in scoring (since YOU brought up the subject of glory holes) every couple months; but I'm old now and beds are me are merely for sleeping in -- nothing more.
Again, why should conservatives necessarily want guys to get it on anyway save for begetting the species.
I reiterated the above because YOU are the one being inconsistent in this case, Timbo.
Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 9:36PM
"I'm old now and beds are me are merely for sleeping in -- nothing more."
FOR me are for sleeping in. It angers me that Tim Pennell would play the sex-card because I called him on what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan during Bush's watch. I was angry but Pennell's head was the one that exploded.
Timbo feels guilt at his having supported Bush and that Deer Hunter, Cheney.
Perhaps Timbo donated to Bush's re-election campaign in '04 and in retrospect senses it was a case of throwing good money after bad?
I never said Bush was a bad president-- only middling: which is termed 'mediocre'.
Naturally it is now water under the bridge;
however you have to do better in your choices of presidents and veeps. It is truly up to you.
You have to do at least as good as Reagan. With all the good cons in America you can't do better? if so then you ARE throwing good money after bad when you donate to a campaign.
Even if the donations are tax deductions.
axbucxdu| 9.6.11 @ 10:29PM
Keep callin 'em like you see 'em. One quibble: the Retreads need to do BETTER than Reagan.
Alan Brooks| 9.7.11 @ 12:17AM
You are right on target, unfortunately BETTER than Reagan is a tall order for 2011--and for 2012 especially!
Do you get the feeling next year will be as bizarre as '68?
axbucxdu| 9.7.11 @ 7:27PM
I was only seven at the time, but do recall riot headlines in the local paper week after week. If anything remotely like the 60s not just 1968 returns next year, it will be orders of magnitude worse.
When the lunatics succeed in replacing the fuses with pennies this time, I've no doubt the whole house will go up in flames.
Clint Brooks| 9.8.11 @ 6:08AM
Like myself and my brother Alan, Petraeus is a buffoon and an establishment hack and cannot be trusted with anything.
Bob K.| 9.6.11 @ 7:37AM
Great picture of his Uniform! His hat has him looking like he is wearing a Laurel Wreath like and American Ceasar! And look at those stars on his shoulder! Can't miss them!
Bob K.| 9.6.11 @ 7:38AM
That should be "looking like "an" American Ceasar!"
Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 9:49AM
Petraeus knows on which side his bread is buttered.
And who wouldn't want to serve under Obama rather than McCain? that way a president doesn't have to listen to countless stories about the Hanoi Hilton.
carnot| 9.6.11 @ 5:29PM
true...he gets to listen to recollections on the good ole days of the Gulag.
Al Adab| 9.6.11 @ 5:53PM
We are about to get the Gulag. Wait for the speech and the proposal for work camps building infrastructure and tell me what they actually are.
Bob K.| 9.6.11 @ 7:46AM
Ah yes! The old battle between "humint" and "satint"! In't that interesting?
JP| 9.6.11 @ 7:53AM
It's not altogether clear to me that Petreous's COIN strategy has worked in either nation. Iraq, after-all, is slowly but steadily falling under Iran's thumb. Afghanistan appears to be a lost cause. If anything, Petreous appears to be another Progressive intellectual. His comments a few years back vis-a-vis Isreal betrays a corporate mindset all too familiar in the Pentagon (ie Isreal's instringence is the real threat to Mideast Peace). The general now will preside over one of the most dysfunctional bureaucracies in the world. Like Foggy Bottom, the CIA is a world unto itself. The CIA's only real intellgence coups the last 10 years was the sabatoging of Bush43 re-election campaign. Petreous, like Gates will be a good little soldier and will do everything in his power to insure Obama's re-election.
Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 8:12AM
"Petreous, like Gates will be a good little soldier and will do everything in his power to insure Obama's re-election."
Good! he knows on which side his bread is buttered on.
Dai Alanye | 9.6.11 @ 12:20PM
Iran is the key to Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon, and one of the keys to Palestine and Afghanistan. Without Iranian support and encouragement the insurgencies in these countries will be greatly weakened.
First step: recognize a Government in Exile for Iran, and give them plenty of assistance. (I've said this many times before, but like Dubya, BO refuses to listen.)
Al Adab| 9.6.11 @ 6:54PM
Not exactly your genre, but it would be a good novel.
Bob K.| 9.6.11 @ 7:53AM
They NYT will want to know if WBT (water boarding technique) is an EIT! You can count on it!
benny havens| 9.6.11 @ 8:01AM
A man of character will not let some sarcastic bitch affect his responsibilities. He is there to get things done. She is there to make a name for herself. Just like her husband.
Timothy L. Pennell| 9.6.11 @ 8:10AM
There is NEVER a time for CYA, when your job is the National Defence of the Nation. You do the best you can. You do whatever it takes, to keep this country SAFE.
The CIA, NSA, the DOD. These assignments are not Resume Enhancers, on your way to a better gig. We've had too many Politician/Generals, and not enough WARRIOR/Generals. It's the Security of the United States of America. Petraeus does his job, the way HE - the Warrior - sees fit, and if Barney Frank or Patty Murray or Chuck Schumer, or any one of those "Friends of Daniel Ortega, Hugo Chavez and the Castro Brothers", don't like it? He can tell'em to stick it up their *ss.
We've had TOO MANY of these Dirtbag Scumbags making their bones with the HARD LEFT, in this Country, Trashing our Intelligence Personnel, Cutting their Budgets, Publicly Charging them with CRIMES against Humanity, and Threatening them with PRISON. We've got some in DEMOCRATS in Congress, who have been trying for DECADES, to get rid of the CIA.
There is no CYA. There's only KMA. And when one of these effeminate, Boy Page molesters, sends one his pukes over to Langley, to read General Petraeus the Riot Act, he should inform them that they, and their Boss, can Kiss My As*.
November 2012.
We have to send this THING, back to the Mosques and Muslim Schools, of Indonesia, where he knelt on his Prayer Rug, facing Mecca, and Prayed for DEATH TO AMERICA, 5 times a day, to his God of MURDER.
He must go.
How does the LEFT put it? Oh, yeah.
By any means necessary.
Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 8:14AM
"You do whatever it takes, to keep this country SAFE."
On the whole, Bush made this country less safe than any POTUS since Carter.
Timothy L. Pennell| 9.6.11 @ 10:27AM
Ya know, I don't usually respond to Stupidity, but, Alan Brooks is like that fart that happens sometimes. The one that, when it happens, you need a change of underwear.
He adds nothing to the Conversation. He has zero facts, at his command. He just says things. Talking Points things. Big Lie things.
That's because Alan is NOBODY. He's NOTHING. This is probably his only outlet to the outside world. OBVIOUSLY, he's never had a girlfriend. The only Sex he's ever had, has come Manually. And, frankly, I would not be surprised to find out that he sleeps next to his Dead Mother's mummified body, and then props her up in a chair, while he writes his drivel, before heading out to cash her Social Security Checks.
How's that, Alan? Pretty close?
Or, right on the money?
Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 11:02AM
"he's never had a girlfriend"
But MANY boyfriends;
btw, why should a conservative such as yourself care about that? you want guys to get married, not have girlfriends (or boyfriends).
BESIDES, why did your buttons get pushed on this issue? did you work on any of Bush's campaigns?
Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 11:04AM
... all I wrote was that Bush madce us less safe tthan any president since Carter and it got your panties in a bunch.
Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 11:06AM
TIMMY,
We are more unsafe now than anytime since 1980- and all the paleos who blog at AS know it.
JP| 9.6.11 @ 11:22AM
Yes, but Petreous is on the job buttering his bread.
And speaking of Afghanistan, 2 weeks ago CENTCOM issued a new regulation that forbids servicemen from farting in the presence of a Muslim. I kid you not.
loulou| 9.6.11 @ 1:03PM
No way! Tell me you're kidding!
JP| 9.6.11 @ 3:54PM
Actually, the ban was on the Marines. Here's a link, or just Google it:
http://constitutionclub.org/20.....ing-aloud/
Maddox| 9.6.11 @ 11:29AM
Could it be because we have a pansy in The White House who has apologized to the entire world for everything America has done TO, not for, the world since the start of our nation. Could it be because they know he hates America and will not defend her and are taking advantage of his disastrous reign ? Could it be we have allowed little prissy boys, like you, to have too much say about how we should engage our enemies? Could be!
Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 11:49AM
A say in the rules of engagement??
You must be senile!
Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 11:53AM
"OBVIOUSLY, he's never had a girlfriend. The only Sex he's ever had"
BTW, Timmy:
why on earth are you at all interested in my private life? are you a bit AC/DC? bi-curious?
If you are, Tim-bo, it's going to cost you to do me!
Dai Alanye | 9.6.11 @ 12:31PM
As mentioned in another thread, I've now become convinced that AB is suffering from a mild but significant form of an ailment which lends itself to treatment with psychotropic drugs.
And NO, I'm not merely offering an insult--this is a sincere observation. Except for his ongoing BDS the man appears congenitally unable to keep his rants intellectually consistent, bouncing all over the place.
loulou| 9.6.11 @ 1:04PM
Hate to break it to you but NOBODY is interested in you much less your private life.
Don't flatter yourself, please.
Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 7:21PM
"Hate to break it to you but NOBODY is interested in you much less your private life."
Then tell it to Tim-bo; it was a totally irrelevant remark of his. And his writing I'm inconsistent! only simpletons are consistent.
For instance I said I MIGHT vote for Palin given some circumstances someday (and as far as you are concerned, what is wrong with that?). At any rate, Palin might not even run for any office- let alone president.
Tim Pennell is the one being 'inconsistent' in this case.
Clint Brooks| 9.8.11 @ 6:12AM
My brother is indeed an idiot, mom keep him in the basement most of the time. Uncle Orville got him his first job, working a gloryhole at a bathhouse. After he headed to California to make it big in the movie industry as a fluffer there was no turning back.
carnot| 9.6.11 @ 5:34PM
pffft. what is going on in Egypt, Iran, Yemen, Iran, Lybia will far surpass that. the world will be far more dangerous...than it was in 2008.
Alan Brooks| 9.7.11 @ 12:24AM
There you go!
We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto.
POST American| 9.6.11 @ 8:46AM
--HOW ong are we going to keep pretending
RED China is a 'denied area' to the Global
intel elites?
It is the Gobalist's prime, US taxpayer underwritten,
creation and instrument.
As for the 'politicization' of the CIA ---that's
been there since its elite, supra American
beginings ---way back in the days when the
OSS was betraying Chiang Kai Shek, and empowering
Mao Tse Tung ---to say nothing
of Rock--F--L--O's front man Rusk betraying
Korea to 6 decades of incremental genocide.
Later of course, there was the CIA's
KEY involvement with engineering and launching
the dope culture of the 60s. CHECK OUT
the intel on the intro of LSD sometime.
Surely when the appointed day arrives, and
over night we awaken to find our police services
have been outsourced to RED China ----there
will be little more than bored sighs from Langley.
------They call it the 'Age--enda' afterall.
RJ| 9.6.11 @ 9:04AM
Princeton Petraeus is not a magic man, if for no other reason than these wars have progressed for years...COIN is his baby, which is code for our military "marrying" our peace corps: This means a $475,000.00 MRAP carries a few soldiers over open ground while others throw away billions of American treasure to convince a village wherein most wipe with their left hand and eat with the right to be comfortable with America's wishes to rid themselves of the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
After 9 years of "fighting" my country, which can place a robot on the planet Mars, can't beat these people, can't create a "victory" beyond a "military kinetic" operation or find words that ring of truths all would comprehend.
Our Tiger has no idea who holds onto his tail!
Paul Kotik| 9.6.11 @ 9:07AM
Iraq a mistake? Only in execution and follow-through.
Everybody has known since time immemorial that control of Mesopotamia is crucial to control of the Middle East. We need to control the Middle East. The oil, remember?
Control of the Middle East is, in turn, essential to Western security in the larger confrontation with the radical Islamic powers of Southwest Asia, namely, nuclear-armed Pakistan and threshold nuclear power Iran.
With considerable military footprints on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan, a more visionary American leadership would recognize the terrific strategic advantage over an Iran nearly encircled and use that advantage to subdue the Islamic Republic.
I thought that's what W was up to at the time. Seemed pretty obvious. Alas. Great deeds, small minds.
Occam's Tool| 9.6.11 @ 10:17PM
I wish you had been Pres, Paul K.
Matthew Quigley| 9.6.11 @ 9:19AM
Is it just my perception as an old Air Force type, or have the Army's uniforms gotten ornate to the point of ridiculousness? I swear, Petraeous looks like the dictator of some banana republic in that get up! There's enough gold on that outfit to pay off the national debt!
Message to the Army from an Air Force friend: Tone it down a few notches. Usually the wilder the uniform, the lower the military prowess. Examples would be Mexico or Argentina.
loulou| 9.6.11 @ 10:22AM
As far as I'm concerned, Petraeuses command in Iraq/Afghanistan was a failure, Princeton PhD notwithstanding.
The genius happily turned our military men into social workers and showed his cowardice by wringing his hands worrying about not offending the natives. Do our men even carry weapons? They are sitting ducks. But that's OK, they are helping to build schools and they give candy to the urchins.
Petraeus the Brilliant also blames Israel for our problems in the Middle East. Huh? The real problem is that he is totally unaware of his failure.
Occam's Tool| 9.6.11 @ 8:59PM
Brilliant, Loulou. Much appreciated. Killing wins wars.
Al Adab| 9.6.11 @ 11:15AM
Isn't this simply an example of co-opting the potential competition? Petreus would make a viable alternative to the panderer in chief so he puts him on his team.
Who Knows?| 9.6.11 @ 11:33AM
Guesswork.
We have the Post Office and we have its competitors.
We have the CIA and its “friendly” competitors.
Here’s a free and friendly head’s up---
Just go to “Faster, Please”, the blog of the indispensable Michael Ledeen, and read everything he so graciously posts, and you’ll be about as well informed about foreign affairs as you can be—and, definitely know more than the CIA cum Post Office!
And, certainly continue to read everything Jed Babbin writes, as well.
Why does the song, “Standing on the corner, watching all the girls walk by” scream for use, in this regard???
Well, way too many of us, including with certainty the bulk of the bureaucracy of the CIA, are simply WATCHERS, not participants!
The need for human intelligence agents ON THE GROUND, or at least on the Internet, is prime. You can’t “make love” to a picture in Playboy, and you can’t “know” your enemy from stand off places.
Before the “marriage” comes the “engagement”. Just so, it behooves a country like the USA, that desperately desires to remain free, to ENGAGE all the bastards, wherever they are, to the best of her abilities!
Maybe the private sector, via technology, will fulfill that requirement, over time, and more and more Americans will permeate all the rotting countries across the globe, picking the lowest hanging “fruits” first.
A freedom-bringing domino theory, irrepressibly put into action---wouldn’t it be neat if the worldwide web connectivity brought myriad epiphanies, INSIDE every country, to more and more of their citizens? So that they didn’t have to physically move to the USA, but could in effect create America where they are?
The fight, as always, it seems, is between those armed with TRUTH and those armed with guns.
Finally---about human intelligence: Exactly as the CIA needs to expand this “boots on the ground” use of its power, those who only stay in America and serve the cause are in dire need to use THEIR own intelligence! Indeed, to even just have some.
Here’s a free offering, for anyone who deigns to read this---
The idiom, “Act your age”, must be expanded to its truer and more universal admonition-
Act your STAGE (of life).
We all are ever present at a measurable “age”, given our birthday. And, as we all know, it means practically NOTHING, once one attains adulthood, chronologically. After all, one can vote at 18, be president at 35, etc, etc, etc.
However, in our collective stage of life, with the West leading the way, about the best we can hope for is to live the third stage of life---that is, the lower mental, so-called “rational: stage, not the infantile or childish ones.
And, hey---isn’t it obvious that a whole lot of people ARE living the infantile and/or childish stages of life, even though they are “grown up”?
Ho Ho—the Universe is NOT an accident!
Our present crisis is the logical reality, the result of actually living our total stage of life!
Look out below!
I guess.
Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 9:43PM
"However, in our collective stage of life, with the West leading the way"
the West? Asia now leads the way.
Tex Expatriate| 9.6.11 @ 12:17PM
The big problem for me is this: Petraeus has agreed to work for Barack Obama. I cannot believe a patriot would work for Obama. I admit, it could happen, but it tarnishes the person for me and I'd never trust him or her again.
Warrior | 9.6.11 @ 5:22PM
For all I know, Petraeus is a bigger liberal than McCain. However, maybe he takes it because he is a patriot. Once in charge of the CIA, it would be politically damaging for Obama to try and replace him before the next election. Maybe the General has calculated this and figures he can do more to protect his country by leading the CIA, or he is another Colin Powell, a complete liberal dressed in conservative clothing.
diviz| 9.6.11 @ 1:55PM
It's time to cut out this politically correct "enhanced interrogation" garbage. If you mean torture, just say torture.
Skippy| 9.6.11 @ 5:15PM
Any interrogation that you can recover from in minutes is not torture.
Torture is pain for pains' sake.
Torture is what our enemies do to us.
Torture is explaining to a dickless schmuck like you what torture is not.
Nick| 9.6.11 @ 7:03PM
Diviz,
It's not P.C., it's military speak. If you had served this great nation, assuming that you are an American, you would know the difference.
And, it's not torture.
Occam's Tool| 9.6.11 @ 9:01PM
Waterboarding causes no permanent damage, or physical scars. Not torture.
Hanging a man from the ceiling by his arms with them stretched behind him can---see John McCain's posture. Breaking arms and legs is torture. Sodomy is torture. Electrical and acid burns are torture.
There is a difference.
diviz| 9.7.11 @ 2:44PM
It is torture, so admit it is torture and stop whinging. I don't have a problem with torture, though I don't think it's terrribly effective. A bit of basic brain surgery and some simple electrodes would be more succesful .
As for military speak, you haven't served long enough to distiguish real military speak which makes a specific point very quickly and the namby pamby officer double talk that tries to make dropping a bomb sound harmless.
WJ| 9.6.11 @ 3:54PM
The sad, sad thing about Iraq is that it will most certainly end up in the same condition as it would have had we "cut and run" back in 2004. All of those soldiers and Marines killed, wounded, missing arms, legs and eyes for not a darn thing. To essentially make a secure Islamic Republic of Iraq that is an ally of Iran.
It can piss you off if you really think about it.
Al Adab| 9.6.11 @ 5:59PM
The problem was the misguided attempt at "nation building" not the attack, war and removal of Saddam.
Frankly, following 9-11 tumultuous demonstrations of celebration took place in major cities all across the Islamic world. Baghdad, Damascus, Beiruit, Cairo, et al. Tell me if you will, why should any of those places be immune from American revenge? Should not each and every one of them today resemble the spot in NYC called "groung zero"?
Skippy| 9.6.11 @ 5:20PM
Or it can be the spark for a few revolutions in the region.
Arab spring, anyone?
Anybody think the Egyptians, Libyans, Syrians, etc. would be in the streets had GWB not crushed Iraq?
I hate that my daughters friends were killed and injured as well.
Let us honor their sacrifice by making sure the raghead bastards in the ME fear us forever.
Of course, with Prince Bambo as CINC, they gotta believe we're not serious.
Occam's Tool| 9.6.11 @ 9:02PM
Skippy is not just a great brand of peanut butter. he deserves heeding.
POST American| 9.7.11 @ 11:27PM
------------------BOTTOMLESS LINE------------------
The man who 'quelled' Iraq now presiding over
the 'Order Out of Chaos' controlled dialiectic
as, no doubt, our sovereignty is dissolved.
DO CHECK OUT the latest Bloomberg News
on the calls, all in lockstep, for Europe
to now surrender their individual sovereignties.
Everything to bew handed over to the
PRIVATE USURY and EUGENICS driven
banking cartel.
EVEN 'conservative' RIIA front op David Cameron.
------------------TIME TO GET UP.
----------------------THIS IS TREASON.