The American Spectator : Petraeus Reprises Sisyphus

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Petraeus Reprises Sisyphus

By Jed Babbin on 9.6.11 @ 6:10AM

Gen. David Petraeus will be sworn in today as CIA director -- politically his toughest mountain yet.

Freshly retired from the Army, Gen. David H. Petraeus will be sworn in today as Director of Central Intelligence. The Princeton Ph.D. is a brilliant, charismatic man used to command and diplomacy. But leaving the military and entering a highly politicized bureaucracy, he faces some daunting challenges.

Petraeus, famous for devising and conducting the counterinsurgency campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan, is credited for succeeding in both even though those accomplishments are entirely Sisyphean. They have created conditions under which we can withdraw in a moment of relative calm, but what we have won with blood and treasure will dissolve soon after we leave. In these Sisyphean results is a metaphor for what will happen when he tries to transform the spy agency while it is under extreme pressure to produce a lot more of the valuable intelligence our nation needs.

Petraeus has, for years, been one of the nation's top intelligence consumers. Now he reverses roles: as DCI, he will be the principal intelligence producer, leading an agency beset by poor morale, politicization, and an inability to produce current and accurate intelligence on many of America's most dangerous adversaries.

The CIA's relationship with Congress is one of the two sources of the agency's morale problem. From his own experience, Petraeus knows how volatile Congress can be. You can be a hero one day -- as his confirmation hearing and 94-0 vote evidence -- and a goat the next. He must remember the September 2007 hearing in which he and Amb. Ryan Crocker testified about the Iraq war. Then-Senator Hillary Clinton called the two men liars, saying that their testimony required "a willing suspension of disbelief."

That episode will color relations between Petraeus and Hillary, and it should make for some amusing moments in Obama cabinet meetings. Petraeus -- the new guy on the block -- will have to guard himself against the byplay between the two bureaucracies. The Joe Wilson venture to Niger in search of Iraqi uranium deals, and the subsequent Valerie Plame name blame game nearly brought down the Bush administration. From beginning to end, the whole thing was the product of the cooperation between the State and CIA bureaucracies with -- as former Vice President Cheney points out -- the consistent cooperation of Colin Powell and his deputy, Dick Armitage.

The CIA's relations with Congress have been very tense since the Bush administration's case on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction -- built on then-CIA Director George Tenet's assurances that it was a "slam dunk" -- fell apart. Just as damaging were the allegations of detainee abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison that surfaced over seven years ago. Though the CIA had nothing to do with Abu Ghraib, the allegations of CIA torture brought accusations from congressional Democrats -- most vocally from then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi -- that the CIA was lying to Congress. Those accusations have never been withdrawn.

Petraeus's predecessor -- Defense Secretary Leon Panetta -- thought the situation was so bad that he penned an unprecedented op-ed in the Washington Post two years ago. In it, Panetta said the CIA's relationship with Congress had deteriorated into "an atmosphere of declining trust, growing frustration and more frequent leaks of properly classified information."

That atmosphere, as several intelligence sources told me, pushed the CIA into a "CYA" mode of operation, hampering significantly intelligence gathering and analysis. CIA morale was boosted enormously by the successful bin Laden raid, but the problem is too deep to have been cured. Petraeus's first task will be to restore confidence in the CIA both internally and in Congress to fix part of the morale problem.

The other source of the morale problem was the ongoing Justice Department investigation into CIA detainee interrogations. At about the same time Petraeus was confirmed for the CIA job, Attorney General Holder announced that the investigation was being ended except in regard to the very few cases in which detainees died in CIA custody.

That there are no coincidences in politics isn't a cliché: it's an aphorism. Was Holder's action the price the price the Obama administration paid for getting Petraeus to take the CIA job? That seems entirely likely. If Petraeus forced Holder's action to be part of the deal under which he'd take the DCI job, he will have raised his own reputation among the CIA's employees (and the CIA's morale) substantially.

The politicization of the CIA goes back at least to the Clinton era, when the president fudged CIA findings in making public pronouncements of policy. As Donald Rumsfeld's "Intelligence Side Letter" to the 1998 Ballistic Missile Threat Commission report said, "However it is manifested, 'fudging' has a corrupting influence on both the policy making and the intelligence communities."

Petraeus, as a military commander, hasn't led a highly politicized agency before. He will struggle with leaks and adverse publicity whenever he crosses the embedded CIA bureaucracy.

That bureaucracy produced the infamous 2007 National Intelligence Estimate, which said the intelligence community had "high confidence" in finding that Iran had stopped its nuclear weapons program years ago. That NIE was a political document, aimed at pressuring the Bush administration to lessen its pressure on Iran. As CIA Director, Petraeus will at least be able to prevent recurrence of that sort of political mistake.

Petraeus's third problem -- transforming the CIA into a spy agency that can produce more actionable intelligence -- is probably the most difficult one. We cannot get current and accurate information on a host of adversaries -- Iran and China chief among them -- which are what intelligence professionals call "denied areas." He needs to build everything from spy networks to analysts' language skills to correct that and will have to deal with a president whose signature on required "presidential findings" that authorize covert action will be tough to get.

Petraeus's aims will be created by need and informed by his battlefield experience. He knows well that spies and informants who comprise "humint" -- human intelligence -- cannot be equaled in intelligence gathering. No matter how good or how many your satellites may be, they can't replace the information that spies and informants can obtain. Which means he will have to face -- again -- the issue of "enhanced interrogation techniques."

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About the Author

Jed Babbin served as a Deputy Undersecretary of Defense under George H.W. Bush. He is the author of several bestselling books including Inside the Asylum and In the Words of Our Enemies.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (65) | Leave a comment

Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 7:36AM

You are correct, if/when we leave, Iraq and Afghanistan go the way of Cambodia in '75:
bloodbath.

Jack in Wi.| 9.6.11 @ 10:40AM

The wars have been a total flop. The General has just been a public realtions face on what is going on. He moves from job to job because the politicians don't know what to do except move people around so it seems like something is being done.

All we did in Iraq is turn it over to the Shia friends of Iran. That is all we got for over 5000 killed, 50,000 wounded and trillions spent. afganistan is going the way of Iraq. well Bin Laden is finally dead. I guess. So why not bring the troops home now?

Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 10:56AM

DARPA, one might suppose

carnot| 9.6.11 @ 5:28PM

that's actually pretty funny!

WJ| 9.6.11 @ 3:48PM

It's been a bloodbath already. A pointless waste that cost money, lives and strengthened Iran.

Al Adab| 9.6.11 @ 5:51PM

I am sorry, but bloodbath it is not. Fewer dead than on Omaha beach. The error is the attempt at "nation building" which is a mirage not a policy.

Occam's Tool| 9.6.11 @ 8:54PM

Correct, AL!

Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 9:23PM

FYI Timbo:
In the '70s I did okay in scoring (since YOU brought up the subject of glory holes) every couple months; but I'm old now and beds are me are merely for sleeping in -- nothing more.
Again, why should conservatives necessarily want guys to get it on anyway save for begetting the species.
I reiterated the above because YOU are the one being inconsistent in this case, Timbo.

Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 9:36PM

"I'm old now and beds are me are merely for sleeping in -- nothing more."

FOR me are for sleeping in. It angers me that Tim Pennell would play the sex-card because I called him on what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan during Bush's watch. I was angry but Pennell's head was the one that exploded.
Timbo feels guilt at his having supported Bush and that Deer Hunter, Cheney.
Perhaps Timbo donated to Bush's re-election campaign in '04 and in retrospect senses it was a case of throwing good money after bad?
I never said Bush was a bad president-- only middling: which is termed 'mediocre'.
Naturally it is now water under the bridge;
however you have to do better in your choices of presidents and veeps. It is truly up to you.
You have to do at least as good as Reagan. With all the good cons in America you can't do better? if so then you ARE throwing good money after bad when you donate to a campaign.

Even if the donations are tax deductions.

axbucxdu| 9.6.11 @ 10:29PM

Keep callin 'em like you see 'em. One quibble: the Retreads need to do BETTER than Reagan.

Alan Brooks| 9.7.11 @ 12:17AM

You are right on target, unfortunately BETTER than Reagan is a tall order for 2011--and for 2012 especially!

Do you get the feeling next year will be as bizarre as '68?

axbucxdu| 9.7.11 @ 7:27PM

I was only seven at the time, but do recall riot headlines in the local paper week after week. If anything remotely like the 60s not just 1968 returns next year, it will be orders of magnitude worse.

When the lunatics succeed in replacing the fuses with pennies this time, I've no doubt the whole house will go up in flames.

Clint Brooks| 9.8.11 @ 6:08AM

Like myself and my brother Alan, Petraeus is a buffoon and an establishment hack and cannot be trusted with anything.

Bob K.| 9.6.11 @ 7:37AM

Great picture of his Uniform! His hat has him looking like he is wearing a Laurel Wreath like and American Ceasar! And look at those stars on his shoulder! Can't miss them!

Bob K.| 9.6.11 @ 7:38AM

That should be "looking like "an" American Ceasar!"

Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 9:49AM

Petraeus knows on which side his bread is buttered.

And who wouldn't want to serve under Obama rather than McCain? that way a president doesn't have to listen to countless stories about the Hanoi Hilton.

carnot| 9.6.11 @ 5:29PM

true...he gets to listen to recollections on the good ole days of the Gulag.

Al Adab| 9.6.11 @ 5:53PM

We are about to get the Gulag. Wait for the speech and the proposal for work camps building infrastructure and tell me what they actually are.

Bob K.| 9.6.11 @ 7:46AM

Ah yes! The old battle between "humint" and "satint"! In't that interesting?

JP| 9.6.11 @ 7:53AM

It's not altogether clear to me that Petreous's COIN strategy has worked in either nation. Iraq, after-all, is slowly but steadily falling under Iran's thumb. Afghanistan appears to be a lost cause. If anything, Petreous appears to be another Progressive intellectual. His comments a few years back vis-a-vis Isreal betrays a corporate mindset all too familiar in the Pentagon (ie Isreal's instringence is the real threat to Mideast Peace). The general now will preside over one of the most dysfunctional bureaucracies in the world. Like Foggy Bottom, the CIA is a world unto itself. The CIA's only real intellgence coups the last 10 years was the sabatoging of Bush43 re-election campaign. Petreous, like Gates will be a good little soldier and will do everything in his power to insure Obama's re-election.

Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 8:12AM

"Petreous, like Gates will be a good little soldier and will do everything in his power to insure Obama's re-election."

Good! he knows on which side his bread is buttered on.

Dai Alanye| 9.6.11 @ 12:20PM

Iran is the key to Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon, and one of the keys to Palestine and Afghanistan. Without Iranian support and encouragement the insurgencies in these countries will be greatly weakened.

First step: recognize a Government in Exile for Iran, and give them plenty of assistance. (I've said this many times before, but like Dubya, BO refuses to listen.)

Al Adab| 9.6.11 @ 6:54PM

Not exactly your genre, but it would be a good novel.

Bob K.| 9.6.11 @ 7:53AM

They NYT will want to know if WBT (water boarding technique) is an EIT! You can count on it!

benny havens| 9.6.11 @ 8:01AM

A man of character will not let some sarcastic bitch affect his responsibilities. He is there to get things done. She is there to make a name for herself. Just like her husband.

Timothy L. Pennell| 9.6.11 @ 8:10AM

There is NEVER a time for CYA, when your job is the National Defence of the Nation. You do the best you can. You do whatever it takes, to keep this country SAFE.
The CIA, NSA, the DOD. These assignments are not Resume Enhancers, on your way to a better gig. We've had too many Politician/Generals, and not enough WARRIOR/Generals. It's the Security of the United States of America. Petraeus does his job, the way HE - the Warrior - sees fit, and if Barney Frank or Patty Murray or Chuck Schumer, or any one of those "Friends of Daniel Ortega, Hugo Chavez and the Castro Brothers", don't like it? He can tell'em to stick it up their *ss.
We've had TOO MANY of these Dirtbag Scumbags making their bones with the HARD LEFT, in this Country, Trashing our Intelligence Personnel, Cutting their Budgets, Publicly Charging them with CRIMES against Humanity, and Threatening them with PRISON. We've got some in DEMOCRATS in Congress, who have been trying for DECADES, to get rid of the CIA.
There is no CYA. There's only KMA. And when one of these effeminate, Boy Page molesters, sends one his pukes over to Langley, to read General Petraeus the Riot Act, he should inform them that they, and their Boss, can Kiss My As*.
November 2012.
We have to send this THING, back to the Mosques and Muslim Schools, of Indonesia, where he knelt on his Prayer Rug, facing Mecca, and Prayed for DEATH TO AMERICA, 5 times a day, to his God of MURDER.
He must go.
How does the LEFT put it? Oh, yeah.
By any means necessary.

Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 8:14AM

"You do whatever it takes, to keep this country SAFE."

On the whole, Bush made this country less safe than any POTUS since Carter.

Timothy L. Pennell| 9.6.11 @ 10:27AM

Ya know, I don't usually respond to Stupidity, but, Alan Brooks is like that fart that happens sometimes. The one that, when it happens, you need a change of underwear.
He adds nothing to the Conversation. He has zero facts, at his command. He just says things. Talking Points things. Big Lie things.
That's because Alan is NOBODY. He's NOTHING. This is probably his only outlet to the outside world. OBVIOUSLY, he's never had a girlfriend. The only Sex he's ever had, has come Manually. And, frankly, I would not be surprised to find out that he sleeps next to his Dead Mother's mummified body, and then props her up in a chair, while he writes his drivel, before heading out to cash her Social Security Checks.
How's that, Alan? Pretty close?
Or, right on the money?

Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 11:02AM

"he's never had a girlfriend"

But MANY boyfriends;
btw, why should a conservative such as yourself care about that? you want guys to get married, not have girlfriends (or boyfriends).
BESIDES, why did your buttons get pushed on this issue? did you work on any of Bush's campaigns?

Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 11:04AM

... all I wrote was that Bush madce us less safe tthan any president since Carter and it got your panties in a bunch.

Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 11:06AM

TIMMY,
We are more unsafe now than anytime since 1980- and all the paleos who blog at AS know it.

JP| 9.6.11 @ 11:22AM

Yes, but Petreous is on the job buttering his bread.

And speaking of Afghanistan, 2 weeks ago CENTCOM issued a new regulation that forbids servicemen from farting in the presence of a Muslim. I kid you not.

loulou| 9.6.11 @ 1:03PM

No way! Tell me you're kidding!

JP| 9.6.11 @ 3:54PM

Actually, the ban was on the Marines. Here's a link, or just Google it:

http://constitutionclub.org/20.....ing-aloud/

Maddox| 9.6.11 @ 11:29AM

Could it be because we have a pansy in The White House who has apologized to the entire world for everything America has done TO, not for, the world since the start of our nation. Could it be because they know he hates America and will not defend her and are taking advantage of his disastrous reign ? Could it be we have allowed little prissy boys, like you, to have too much say about how we should engage our enemies? Could be!

Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 11:49AM

A say in the rules of engagement??
You must be senile!

Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 11:53AM

"OBVIOUSLY, he's never had a girlfriend. The only Sex he's ever had"

BTW, Timmy:
why on earth are you at all interested in my private life? are you a bit AC/DC? bi-curious?
If you are, Tim-bo, it's going to cost you to do me!

Dai Alanye| 9.6.11 @ 12:31PM

As mentioned in another thread, I've now become convinced that AB is suffering from a mild but significant form of an ailment which lends itself to treatment with psychotropic drugs.

And NO, I'm not merely offering an insult--this is a sincere observation. Except for his ongoing BDS the man appears congenitally unable to keep his rants intellectually consistent, bouncing all over the place.

loulou| 9.6.11 @ 1:04PM

Hate to break it to you but NOBODY is interested in you much less your private life.
Don't flatter yourself, please.

Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 7:21PM

"Hate to break it to you but NOBODY is interested in you much less your private life."

Then tell it to Tim-bo; it was a totally irrelevant remark of his. And his writing I'm inconsistent! only simpletons are consistent.
For instance I said I MIGHT vote for Palin given some circumstances someday (and as far as you are concerned, what is wrong with that?). At any rate, Palin might not even run for any office- let alone president.
Tim Pennell is the one being 'inconsistent' in this case.

Clint Brooks| 9.8.11 @ 6:12AM

My brother is indeed an idiot, mom keep him in the basement most of the time. Uncle Orville got him his first job, working a gloryhole at a bathhouse. After he headed to California to make it big in the movie industry as a fluffer there was no turning back.

carnot| 9.6.11 @ 5:34PM

pffft. what is going on in Egypt, Iran, Yemen, Iran, Lybia will far surpass that. the world will be far more dangerous...than it was in 2008.

Alan Brooks| 9.7.11 @ 12:24AM

There you go!
We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto.

POST American| 9.6.11 @ 8:46AM

--HOW ong are we going to keep pretending
RED China is a 'denied area' to the Global
intel elites?

It is the Gobalist's prime, US taxpayer underwritten,
creation and instrument.

As for the 'politicization' of the CIA ---that's
been there since its elite, supra American
beginings ---way back in the days when the
OSS was betraying Chiang Kai Shek, and empowering
Mao Tse Tung ---to say nothing
of Rock--F--L--O's front man Rusk betraying
Korea to 6 decades of incremental genocide.

Later of course, there was the CIA's
KEY involvement with engineering and launching
the dope culture of the 60s. CHECK OUT
the intel on the intro of LSD sometime.

Surely when the appointed day arrives, and
over night we awaken to find our police services
have been outsourced to RED China ----there
will be little more than bored sighs from Langley.

------They call it the 'Age--enda' afterall.

RJ| 9.6.11 @ 9:04AM

Princeton Petraeus is not a magic man, if for no other reason than these wars have progressed for years...COIN is his baby, which is code for our military "marrying" our peace corps: This means a $475,000.00 MRAP carries a few soldiers over open ground while others throw away billions of American treasure to convince a village wherein most wipe with their left hand and eat with the right to be comfortable with America's wishes to rid themselves of the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

After 9 years of "fighting" my country, which can place a robot on the planet Mars, can't beat these people, can't create a "victory" beyond a "military kinetic" operation or find words that ring of truths all would comprehend.

Our Tiger has no idea who holds onto his tail!

Paul Kotik| 9.6.11 @ 9:07AM

Iraq a mistake? Only in execution and follow-through.

Everybody has known since time immemorial that control of Mesopotamia is crucial to control of the Middle East. We need to control the Middle East. The oil, remember?

Control of the Middle East is, in turn, essential to Western security in the larger confrontation with the radical Islamic powers of Southwest Asia, namely, nuclear-armed Pakistan and threshold nuclear power Iran.

With considerable military footprints on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan, a more visionary American leadership would recognize the terrific strategic advantage over an Iran nearly encircled and use that advantage to subdue the Islamic Republic.

I thought that's what W was up to at the time. Seemed pretty obvious. Alas. Great deeds, small minds.

Occam's Tool| 9.6.11 @ 10:17PM

I wish you had been Pres, Paul K.

Matthew Quigley| 9.6.11 @ 9:19AM

Is it just my perception as an old Air Force type, or have the Army's uniforms gotten ornate to the point of ridiculousness? I swear, Petraeous looks like the dictator of some banana republic in that get up! There's enough gold on that outfit to pay off the national debt!

Message to the Army from an Air Force friend: Tone it down a few notches. Usually the wilder the uniform, the lower the military prowess. Examples would be Mexico or Argentina.

loulou| 9.6.11 @ 10:22AM

As far as I'm concerned, Petraeuses command in Iraq/Afghanistan was a failure, Princeton PhD notwithstanding.

The genius happily turned our military men into social workers and showed his cowardice by wringing his hands worrying about not offending the natives. Do our men even carry weapons? They are sitting ducks. But that's OK, they are helping to build schools and they give candy to the urchins.

Petraeus the Brilliant also blames Israel for our problems in the Middle East. Huh? The real problem is that he is totally unaware of his failure.

Occam's Tool| 9.6.11 @ 8:59PM

Brilliant, Loulou. Much appreciated. Killing wins wars.

Al Adab| 9.6.11 @ 11:15AM

Isn't this simply an example of co-opting the potential competition? Petreus would make a viable alternative to the panderer in chief so he puts him on his team.

Who Knows?| 9.6.11 @ 11:33AM

Guesswork.

We have the Post Office and we have its competitors.

We have the CIA and its “friendly” competitors.

Here’s a free and friendly head’s up---

Just go to “Faster, Please”, the blog of the indispensable Michael Ledeen, and read everything he so graciously posts, and you’ll be about as well informed about foreign affairs as you can be—and, definitely know more than the CIA cum Post Office!

And, certainly continue to read everything Jed Babbin writes, as well.

Why does the song, “Standing on the corner, watching all the girls walk by” scream for use, in this regard???

Well, way too many of us, including with certainty the bulk of the bureaucracy of the CIA, are simply WATCHERS, not participants!

The need for human intelligence agents ON THE GROUND, or at least on the Internet, is prime. You can’t “make love” to a picture in Playboy, and you can’t “know” your enemy from stand off places.

Before the “marriage” comes the “engagement”. Just so, it behooves a country like the USA, that desperately desires to remain free, to ENGAGE all the bastards, wherever they are, to the best of her abilities!

Maybe the private sector, via technology, will fulfill that requirement, over time, and more and more Americans will permeate all the rotting countries across the globe, picking the lowest hanging “fruits” first.

A freedom-bringing domino theory, irrepressibly put into action---wouldn’t it be neat if the worldwide web connectivity brought myriad epiphanies, INSIDE every country, to more and more of their citizens? So that they didn’t have to physically move to the USA, but could in effect create America where they are?

The fight, as always, it seems, is between those armed with TRUTH and those armed with guns.

Finally---about human intelligence: Exactly as the CIA needs to expand this “boots on the ground” use of its power, those who only stay in America and serve the cause are in dire need to use THEIR own intelligence! Indeed, to even just have some.

Here’s a free offering, for anyone who deigns to read this---

The idiom, “Act your age”, must be expanded to its truer and more universal admonition-

Act your STAGE (of life).

We all are ever present at a measurable “age”, given our birthday. And, as we all know, it means practically NOTHING, once one attains adulthood, chronologically. After all, one can vote at 18, be president at 35, etc, etc, etc.

However, in our collective stage of life, with the West leading the way, about the best we can hope for is to live the third stage of life---that is, the lower mental, so-called “rational: stage, not the infantile or childish ones.

And, hey---isn’t it obvious that a whole lot of people ARE living the infantile and/or childish stages of life, even though they are “grown up”?

Ho Ho—the Universe is NOT an accident!

Our present crisis is the logical reality, the result of actually living our total stage of life!

Look out below!

I guess.

Alan Brooks| 9.6.11 @ 9:43PM

"However, in our collective stage of life, with the West leading the way"

the West? Asia now leads the way.

Tex Expatriate| 9.6.11 @ 12:17PM

The big problem for me is this: Petraeus has agreed to work for Barack Obama. I cannot believe a patriot would work for Obama. I admit, it could happen, but it tarnishes the person for me and I'd never trust him or her again.

Warrior| 9.6.11 @ 5:22PM

For all I know, Petraeus is a bigger liberal than McCain. However, maybe he takes it because he is a patriot. Once in charge of the CIA, it would be politically damaging for Obama to try and replace him before the next election. Maybe the General has calculated this and figures he can do more to protect his country by leading the CIA, or he is another Colin Powell, a complete liberal dressed in conservative clothing.

diviz| 9.6.11 @ 1:55PM

It's time to cut out this politically correct "enhanced interrogation" garbage. If you mean torture, just say torture.

Skippy| 9.6.11 @ 5:15PM

Any interrogation that you can recover from in minutes is not torture.
Torture is pain for pains' sake.
Torture is what our enemies do to us.
Torture is explaining to a dickless schmuck like you what torture is not.

Nick| 9.6.11 @ 7:03PM

Diviz,

It's not P.C., it's military speak. If you had served this great nation, assuming that you are an American, you would know the difference.

And, it's not torture.

Occam's Tool| 9.6.11 @ 9:01PM

Waterboarding causes no permanent damage, or physical scars. Not torture.

Hanging a man from the ceiling by his arms with them stretched behind him can---see John McCain's posture. Breaking arms and legs is torture. Sodomy is torture. Electrical and acid burns are torture.

There is a difference.

diviz| 9.7.11 @ 2:44PM

It is torture, so admit it is torture and stop whinging. I don't have a problem with torture, though I don't think it's terrribly effective. A bit of basic brain surgery and some simple electrodes would be more succesful .
As for military speak, you haven't served long enough to distiguish real military speak which makes a specific point very quickly and the namby pamby officer double talk that tries to make dropping a bomb sound harmless.

WJ| 9.6.11 @ 3:54PM

The sad, sad thing about Iraq is that it will most certainly end up in the same condition as it would have had we "cut and run" back in 2004. All of those soldiers and Marines killed, wounded, missing arms, legs and eyes for not a darn thing. To essentially make a secure Islamic Republic of Iraq that is an ally of Iran.

It can piss you off if you really think about it.

Al Adab| 9.6.11 @ 5:59PM

The problem was the misguided attempt at "nation building" not the attack, war and removal of Saddam.

Frankly, following 9-11 tumultuous demonstrations of celebration took place in major cities all across the Islamic world. Baghdad, Damascus, Beiruit, Cairo, et al. Tell me if you will, why should any of those places be immune from American revenge? Should not each and every one of them today resemble the spot in NYC called "groung zero"?

Skippy| 9.6.11 @ 5:20PM

Or it can be the spark for a few revolutions in the region.
Arab spring, anyone?
Anybody think the Egyptians, Libyans, Syrians, etc. would be in the streets had GWB not crushed Iraq?
I hate that my daughters friends were killed and injured as well.
Let us honor their sacrifice by making sure the raghead bastards in the ME fear us forever.
Of course, with Prince Bambo as CINC, they gotta believe we're not serious.

Occam's Tool| 9.6.11 @ 9:02PM

Skippy is not just a great brand of peanut butter. he deserves heeding.

POST American| 9.7.11 @ 11:27PM

------------------BOTTOMLESS LINE------------------

The man who 'quelled' Iraq now presiding over
the 'Order Out of Chaos' controlled dialiectic
as, no doubt, our sovereignty is dissolved.

DO CHECK OUT the latest Bloomberg News
on the calls, all in lockstep, for Europe
to now surrender their individual sovereignties.
Everything to bew handed over to the
PRIVATE USURY and EUGENICS driven
banking cartel.

EVEN 'conservative' RIIA front op David Cameron.

------------------TIME TO GET UP.

----------------------THIS IS TREASON.