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The Nation's Pulse
The War on Adulthood
Who needs the love which passeth all understanding when you have kickball?
A longtime acquaintance of mine — we’ll call him Sam — recently announced that he’d joined an adult kickball league. Now the important thing to know about Sam is that he is the 48-year-old twice-married father of three adult children.
I once played kickball with Sam. That would have been in the early seventies at St. Mary’s Grade School. After fifth grade, I hung up my sneakers for good. This, apparently, makes me a bit of an oddball.
I say that because kickball is the latest big thing, the newest fad. And fads are not just for children anymore. They’re for grown-ups too. Or at least those people in their twenties, thirties, and forties we used to think of as grown-up.
Naturally, my first question was why kickball?
As near as I can tell so many so-called adults are obsessed with kickball because it is the most elementary of children’s games. It is the one activity that unmistakably shouts: “Hey, look at me! I refuse to act my age!”
For an increasing number of adults acting one’s age — at least outside work hours — would be a terrible faux pas, akin to asking a fat woman when she is due.
This stands on its head the manners and mores of my grandfather’s time. Once grown men and women were chastised if they behaved like children, or refused to take on the responsibilities associated with adulthood. Today it is the men and women who undertake careers, marry, and start families in their twenties whose behavior is called into question. Why would anyone put himself in such a position when you can live a little first?
Living a little, means, among other things, playing kickball.
In a way, this is understandable. Adulthood is, after all, a grim time. It is a time of duties, drudgery, and divorce. Or so the thinking goes. How much better it is to remain a permanent adolescent. Perhaps not biologically, but emotionally.
TRUTH BE TOLD, kickball alone isn’t much fun, not even for the participants. That’s why most of us lost interest by fifth grade. And that’s why when adults play kickball there is always plenty of beer and vulgarity on tap.
In my hometown, the 2,500-member “BigBalls” kickball league was recently banned from St. Louis’ Tower Grove Park after numerous complaints from neighbors. According to the park director, the teams, all with good, clean names like “TITS,” “Gang Bang All Stars,” and “Here for the Gang Bang” displayed a “consistent pattern of abusive language, public urination, nudity, and disrespect for park rangers.” How bad was it? So bad, a video showing the “horny, drunk idiots” in all their glory was taken down from YouTube by the “horny, drunk idiots” who had made it.
Doubtless some readers will say, “Don’t be an old sourpuss. Let the kids, I mean, the adults, have their fun.”
A moment’s reflection, however, makes plain that the issue is more than kickball. Indeed, kickball is just another symptom of the on-going depreciation of adulthood, that 40-year cultural shift of tectonic proportions that has been steadily obliterating the line between adolescence and adulthood.
What’s more, it’s an example of the continuing vulgarization of society spurred by a self-esteem generation brought up to believe everything they do merits praise. The young vulgarians believe their raunchy, drunken antics deserve the same attention they received when daddy filmed their first time on the potty.
And because few people take these warning signs seriously, no one bothers to ask: “What happens when we are left with an entire society of permanent adolescents, a majority unwilling — or unable — to take on the roles and responsibilities of adulthood?”
About the Author
Christopher Orlet writes from St. Louis.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (112) | Leave a comment
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John Daniel| 8.25.11 @ 6:51AM
Well, the boomer cry in the late 60's was to not trust anyboby over 40. Maybe they believe their credibility is contingent on never acting like they're over 40. A healthy society respects age and wisdom - aging gracefully - while ours has made terminal childhood the goal. We are doomed.
Timothy L. Pennell| 8.25.11 @ 9:04AM
This is simple. Children are easier to CONTROL. You treat Adults like children: Feed them, Clothe them, Give them an Allowance, and Excuse their misbehavior from time to time (after all, they're just children) and, in this way, a Bond will be created out of their Dependence on You, and you're willingness to take care of Them.
We have it now. It's called THE BLACK COMMUNITY. And you can see it on display, in any American City.
KyMouse| 8.25.11 @ 10:18AM
I think 'don't trust anybody over 30' was the battle cry, but your point is still valid, John.
The 'sexual revolution' that picked up steam in the 1960s made it possible for men to remain boys, and women have to share the blame for that. Most men in previous generations married the women they loved, and most accepted the responsibilities of marriage and fatherhood.
Since that revolution, men have been able to shack up with women, postponing or avoiding marriage, and have been allowed to become absent fathers of their children (that is, the children they haven't pressured the mothers to abort).
And don't get me started on grown men wearing baseball caps everywhere, including indoors.
Who Knows?| 8.25.11 @ 12:00PM
Hey---be careful.
When it comes to covering the head OUTDOORS, what are men going to do?
Me, for years, in the warm weather, baseball caps serve quite well to keep the bald pate from sunburn. Also, on a few occasions when biking to and from the food store, when stopped at a red light, sans the hat, some young guys in trucks have been known to laugh and jeer at me.
It reminded me of ME when as a youth I did the same thing to old and ugly men!
So, going with the flow by covering the shiny top of the head with baseball caps, when in public---maybe even INDOORS---is just a way of surviving, as the fittest old fart one is.
Too, seeing old movies and news reels of men in public back in the thirties, say, when every one who strove to fit in wore REAL HATS, does contrast with the present American fashion.
TrueBlue| 8.25.11 @ 4:45PM
We need to bring fedoras back into the mainstream (and I'm not talking about those silly tiny brimmed "hipster" versions). Now THOSE were hats.
Herb| 8.25.11 @ 6:58AM
Well....actually the Sixties young were howling "Don't trust anyone over thirty!!" At that time age forty was one foot in the grave.
Once there was respect for the elderly. Now they have a `duty to die' with an Obama-supplied placebo.
Isn't progress wonderful?
TrueBlue| 8.25.11 @ 4:46PM
No no, it's, "Hurry up and die so I can get your money already."
Merlin| 8.25.11 @ 4:55PM
Perhaps the Chinese will point out to the tax payers of the near future that the money wasted in paying SS and Medicare for the non-productive should be going to pay interest and principal on the money we owe them.
Darin| 8.25.11 @ 7:05AM
When I was a child, I thought as a child and acted as a child. Now as a man, I can still think as a child and act as a child.
Come on, folks. Grow up, act like adults, and show some personal responsibility.
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 8.25.11 @ 7:09AM
Several years ago a friend (Much younger) mentioned he had joined a kickball league. I actually went over and watched one night.
Aside from the fact it was boring to me I left with a few observations.
Married women were dressed like skanks with revealing clothing and several were drinking heavily.
It seemed to me it was a way for men to spend time with their spouses and friends. The quality of the game was not good with many errors.
At one point I overheard three women discussing the color of their panties.
So much for kickball.
Brian Mc| 8.25.11 @ 7:16AM
Nothing seems to have lost its impact quite as much as the three simple words I heard constantly from my mother, "Act your age".
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 8.25.11 @ 7:23AM
When George Burns was 100 years old they told him to act his age.
He did. He dropped dead.
Bumr50| 8.25.11 @ 7:22AM
Quiddich, anyone?
POST American| 8.25.11 @ 7:36AM
---And, with the relentless weaponized injections,
the endless media indoctrinations, the estrogen
seeping, bisphenol A saturated plastics, the
CHEM-trails and organ and fertility destroying
GMO weaponized 'food'
--along with boundless sexualization and broken families
--to say nothing of the extermination of the unborn ----let us also consider the war against childhood.
Whenever you're ready to come to grips with
the century long legacy of TAX FREE 'benny violent' diddling and subversion --ie 'social engineering' by our ever sinister
ULTRA RICH foundations -----give us a call.
Ryan| 8.25.11 @ 9:25AM
CALL WHO for crying out loud...
Bob Grant| 8.25.11 @ 2:14PM
You should know ...telepathically. LOL.
Dan Mathewson| 8.25.11 @ 7:56PM
Call the people with tin foil hats. They know what's "Truly going on. Really."
Grownup| 8.25.11 @ 7:50AM
Someone needs to make a bumper sticker that says simply "Just Grow Up!"
I'd put it on my car so all the 40 year old adolescents can read it and maybe think about it for a moment.
Appleby| 8.25.11 @ 10:48PM
You would have to write it in text babble; TheKids cannot read words.
Lawrence of Lutz| 8.25.11 @ 7:58AM
My how times have changed.
In the early 60's, my friends and I were told by the Park Ranger to either put our tee shirts back on or leave the park.
Park Rules, don't ya know.
Moe Blotz| 8.25.11 @ 7:58AM
Screw kickball. Anyone for dodgeball?
JimH| 8.25.11 @ 3:37PM
Dodgeball is being removed from public schools, makes the losers have low self-esteem.
TrueBlue| 8.25.11 @ 4:48PM
All team sports are having the competition removed. There are some places that don't even allow people to keep score.
Robert Pinkerton| 8.25.11 @ 8:01AM
I have one suggestion which would begin (Not entirely solve) to solve this problem: Change law and practice in domestic relations to provide that custody of children in divorce should default to the father rather than, as now in 97.5+% of cases, to the mother. Indeed, exclusive custody should go to the father in all cases except proven moral unfitness on is part or proof that the child in question is not of the father's seed. In the matter of moral unfitness, a false accusation thereof should be a felony and this should be enforced.
Perhaps my solitary point of concurrence with Saul of Tarsus is his statement that, "... now that I am become a man, I have put away the things of a child..." A man is an ADULT human male. To attain to that estate, a boy must grow up, and grow all the way up, i.e.: To outgrow the illusions, delusions, and perceptual distortions of childhood and the errors of youth.
Stormzeye| 8.25.11 @ 8:18AM
Another chapter in the feminization of America due to the lack of male role models. These 40-somethings are probably from single parent families where "manhood" was regarded as vulgar and chivalrous behavior an insult to women. What dorks, dinks, and douches these kickball players must be.....oh yeah, and Obama supporters.
Occam's Tool| 8.25.11 @ 2:18PM
I enjoy watching cheesy movies with my wife with the MST3K on.
I also enjoy studying Medicine and History.
Otherwise, EVERYTHING else is time away from my kids, who are 7 and 8. They are the most precious possessions I have. Why would I want to get drunk off my ass instead of telling my daughter and son how fantastic they are?
Stuart Koehl| 8.25.11 @ 8:43AM
So, kickball is juvenile, but soccer is not. Football is not. Basketball is not. Baseball is not. Come off it. All sports are, to some extent, indulgence in the juvenile spirit. So either condemn all, or leave it be. There are far worse things for adults to be doing than playing kickball.
Robert Pinkerton| 8.25.11 @ 8:54AM
There are sports, then there are sports. Pistol practice or study of the martial arts can save your life if you encounter interpersonal criminal aggression against yourself. From my own experience, pistol practice is the best fun a man can have whilst standing up and with trousers on.
Rodeoamy| 8.25.11 @ 9:49AM
Me, too. Er, that a gal can have, that is. With her knickers up.
cuban pete| 8.25.11 @ 9:54AM
Brazilian jiu jitsu is great because you can train at full speed with a partner (unlike the striking arts where you can only hit a dummy). As a result you can stay in shape by doing it.
I enjoy running, kettlebells and sandbags because they are economical and do not require a gym.
The main reason I try to stay reasonably healthy is to stay out of BHO's healthcare system. I'm over 65 and if Rahm's brother and his ilk have their way, if contract any serious condition it will be "black capsule" time.
Hell it worked for Hitler and Eva Braun.
Bonus trivia- From what movie is the preceding quote?
Silverhawk| 8.25.11 @ 8:02PM
Ah, that was Eva Hitler when she and her husband committed suicide. They were married beforehand.
cuban pete| 8.25.11 @ 8:23PM
I heard she continued to use her maiden name after she married.
YeloStalyn| 8.25.11 @ 9:57AM
While those things you mention are fantastic (I love shooting at the in-laws house... ok... not AT their house, but on their property, lol) it still doesn't address what Stuart pointed out... what's the difference between the local softball league and a kickball league?
Why is it OK for men to be part of a softball team but not kickball? Sure, your anecdotal evidence is that kickball is full of crude and crass old boys... but the game itself does not make one such.
Besides... in todays world, who wants to be a grown up? Don't get me wrong, I have my degree, I've been happily married from right out of college, I have a job. My wife and I are financially responsible and active in our church. We do all the things one would expect us to do as adults. However... we both would rather have fun. So, when time allows, we do. That makes us poor adults? How? The emergence of things like kickball leagues are not what is causing the poor character of people. You've put the cart before the horse.
It is the depreciation of human character that has led people to find themselves with more time than they probably should have to engage in less than "studious" things. Sure, there is pleanty of fun to be had with a deep adult conversation. I find good conversation often lacking in my parts. But to like it does not mean I can't also like video games (which I do very much).
I just think that too many stuck up people with a superiority complex and a lack of humility can't fathom the idea that being an adult is not exclusive to having childish fun. That doesn't mean that childish fun has to be crude, or that it should take up substantial parts of your life to the detriment of actually being an adult... but you can still enjoy them.
Get off you high horses once in a while.
Oldmanriver| 8.25.11 @ 10:59AM
Yeostalin,
I completely agree. I have a very good job that pays well. Im not married, never have been never will be. I dont date, I have hobbies that I enjoy very much. I travel outside the country to Europe every year. I go to interesting places, I have learned several languages. I like to build model rockets and shoot them off. I like target shooting. I hate spending time with other people. Its very stressful and I prefer to be by myself. My point is that this is what I like. Other people like kick ball, kids, golf etc etc. Who cares. When I was a kid I saw a lot of adults doing childish things. Who cares? if they are not hurting anyone and just having a good time? Whats funny is all the John Wayne wannabes commenting here, judging everyone else. Maybe if you worked on yourself rather than worrying about what other people were doing you would be happier.
Bob Grant| 8.25.11 @ 2:38PM
I don't think the point of the article is to criticize "childish pursuits" per se. The takeaway I got from the piece is that Kickball is one of a growing list of "adult" games in which groups of people can act out as children, and loutish adults, without condemnation or judgment.
The fact that games such as these in many instances are adult only proves the authors point.
Sure, kickball among adults and children on special occasions such as Fourth of July picnics is one thing but to have adult leagues is bizarre to me as well.
And, NO, I'm not being judgmental. Kick away to your hearts content. It just seems that the adult-to-child related activities among adults is completely out of whack.
Older people desperately clinging to their youth is a life wasted.
There is nothing more depressing - and absurd - than tuning into Entertainment Tonight and watching someone like Mary Hart dishing about the sex life of some interchangeable twenty something actress. Creepy as well.
Petronius| 8.25.11 @ 12:11PM
And we get to be slightly youthful at that. Cowboy action is great. The only thing that beats running a clean stage with a best time, is a 25 straight on the Olympic trap field. Real sport taxes the mind and body to achieve a goal. Kickball is of no consequence but a pretext to party.
Now as to the finest adult activity: what is everybody reading this summer? I'm into a strictly fun book: The Big over Easy by Jasper Fforde.
Petronius| 8.25.11 @ 12:50PM
Nothing satisfies like running a clean stage at cowboy action shooting with a best time. And the western theme adds a youthful touch. But kickball? The game is one thing and the low rent behavior another. But Chris is on to the fact that life has become a struggle to reach the the age of 26, and there remain. It's the hard bodies of that age who face the cameras of Entertainment Tonight. The plight of the banished kickballers is that of the superannuated who are still there in their minds.
Le Cracquere| 8.25.11 @ 1:14PM
Let's discuss golf, bowling, and bocce: the "more adult" pastimes that Orlet recommends. Is there something inherent to these games that makes them more serious than kickball, or more improving? I think not. For that matter, it's not at all clear what makes tennis, bridge, or poker superior to dodgeball, video games, or Risk.
Besides, eternally insisting upon one's adultness, the dread of looking less than adult: these are cardinal symptoms of immaturity. A genuine ADULT can unselfconsciously engage in wholesome play during his off-hours, without worrying what Don Draper would make of it, and without fearing that he's sacrificing his seriousness in matters intellectual. It's a developmental step that I sincerely recommend to Mr. Orlet.
YeloStalyn| 8.25.11 @ 2:40PM
Well put! And a good game of Risk can be very rewarding in the "adult" sense if you're playing with adults. It's a game that requires thought and planning... things that if present in a person often allow them to carry on deep conversations over a good game of Risk.
Injuneer| 8.25.11 @ 8:57AM
The other day my useless unemployed neighbors and their friends aged in their 40's and 50's were playing "four square" with a basketball on their front driveway. I thought how childish that was, only to read this post about kickball. It's all making sense now...
YeloStalyn| 8.25.11 @ 10:00AM
Are your neighbors useless because they are playing four square... or are they playing four square because they're useless and have nothing else to do?
scotchieguy| 8.25.11 @ 10:25AM
My guess is they are useless because they are unemployed, and instead of looking for a job, they are busy playing games.
YeloStalyn| 8.25.11 @ 10:32AM
Which is my point... don't villanize the game. Enjoy it. Villanize the lazy slobs who not getting a job. The game, or playing games, does not make these people who they are. The issue is not kickball, or any of the things that are being decried in this article. The issue is the character of the people themselves. If the people playing kickball in the park had been sober and just enjoying the game (much like is possible with a myriad of other games that adults play with no such poor stigma like softball) then this article wouldn't be about anything except someone talking about how much better he is that other people. That's hubris. The article should be about why adults are of poor character, not why they spend their time dilly-dallying. Take these neighbors for example. Why would anyone have any cause to look down on them for playing four square if they happend to have jobs and stable families?
Gary| 8.25.11 @ 10:42AM
I think you miss the point. If you truly enjoy such activity, fine, but if you are doing it to prove you are still hip or young it's a farce. For years as an adult I put up hundreds of model planes, something I did as a boy, but not very well. It was my private hobby for years before i tired of it but I did it because I enjoyed it, not to stay young. So if you really enjoy kickball, good and fine, but I didn't even like it as a kid.
YeloStalyn| 8.25.11 @ 1:02PM
And what you did was fine. It was a childish thing for you to do. But what if it was kickball. What would the stigma be that the author would give you if he saw you playing kickball? It would be pretty bad. However, it would also be inaccurate. My point being... who is the author to bitch and moan about guys playing kickball. He can complain about their poor character... and he should. But the fact that they are playing kickball is completely irrelevant. It has nothing to do with "remaining a child." It is the attitude... the carelessness and unwillingness to be responsible... that is childish. Not the activities one engages in. A fully grown man can still be an adult and engage in tomfoolery.
Bob Grant| 8.25.11 @ 2:47PM
Yeo,
I would suggest re-reading the article so maybe you'll quit obsessing with the specific activity. It's not really about kickball.
YeloStalyn| 8.25.11 @ 5:08PM
It's about adults not acting like it by doing things like playing kickball. And my reply is that it has nothign to do with what they spend their time on... be it kickball, paper dolls, or playing cowboys and indians. It's not your problem what they do. What IS your problem (and mine as well) is the CHARACTER of these people. The author says he "naturally" asked "why kickball?" I, naturally, want to ask, "Why not?"
So, you see, I'm not obsessed with the activity. I'm "obsessed" with the judgemental attitude towards people who enjoy the simpler things in life... like a child. Because there's nothign about that that says you can't also be an adult when it matters.
Oldmanriver| 8.25.11 @ 10:49AM
Or maybe they have really stressful jobs and are blowing off steam having a good time.
Injuneer| 8.26.11 @ 9:10AM
scotchieguy got it right, they spend their days and evenings smoking dope and playing children's games instead of being gainfully employed or even doing appropriate work around their house that most adults would do.
The premise of my comment is along the lines of the original article which is there is a societal trend toward infantilism. My neighbors are examples of that in how they act, dress and behave. Millennials are trending that way even more so.
40 y/o curmudgeon| 8.25.11 @ 9:32AM
I am forty years old, and I hate my generation. For a while, I participated in my generation's perpetual adolescence, I had the soundtrack to Avenue Q, for crying out loud, a perfect example of childish thought (the homage to Sesame Street, the song "I wish I could go back to college, in college you know who you are"), not to mention the atricity which is "Rent." Well, I didn't know a thing in college, and I wouldn't want to go back. If anything I wish I had waited a couple of years and worked at a real job before I started college. If you want to watch real adults at play, watch the first few minutes of the cocktail party scene in "All About Eve." That's REAL adults having real conversation and acting like grown-ups. That is, of course, before Miss Bette Davis as Margo gets delightfully loaded. She is magnificent, and I might ad, ravishing compared to the younger (and less experienced) Eve. Sorry for the segue, but that's the kind of party I'd like to go to.
Oldmanriver| 8.25.11 @ 11:25AM
Good for you, why do you care what others do?
Dan Hirsch| 8.25.11 @ 9:43AM
One day I was driving on a major metropolitan expressway. I noticed the junky car in front of me was being driven by a fuzzy, kind of sloppy young man.
His license plate read, "DY B 430"
So to help him out, I ran him off the road.
Hee haw.
But the car, the fuzzy fellow and the license plate were all real. It's the thought behind it that's not.
Sheesh.
scotchieguy| 8.25.11 @ 10:01AM
Is there anything more childish than vanity plates? And you have to actually pay for these things! I saw one the other day that said simply "BARF." I'm not kidding.
Petronius| 8.25.11 @ 12:56PM
I saw one some years back which confirms that sentiment. It said "NYUK X3". Soitenly!
Occam's Tool| 8.25.11 @ 2:24PM
Actually, the best Novelty Plate I ever saw was USSRPHD. The Plate holder read: Professors of Russian History Do It on the Steppes. Untoppable, and I remember it 20 years later.
The problem that I see isn't doing the occasional child-like thing---it's acting like an idiot. Those 3 women had nothing better to talk about than the color of their panties?
Bob Grant| 8.25.11 @ 2:59PM
Yes Occam,
That's all those "ladies" had to talk about because as you know the new sexy is to be perpetually cute, not classically sexy as in the past.
Cute is young. Talking about panties is "cute".
Our society has suffered several generations of male arrested development epidemic, but when females are thrown in the mix, say bye bye to society.
Occam's Tool| 8.25.11 @ 5:47PM
I can't disagree.
cuban pete| 8.25.11 @ 3:41PM
OT
When vanity plates first were issued in Illinois I recall seeing a "worldly" blonde about 45 years old driving a Caddy Eldo. The license plate said, "WAS HIS"
Short and to the point.
scotchieguy| 8.25.11 @ 9:51AM
Nothing epitomizes extended adolescense more than the NFL culture. Watch any pre-game show, and the four or five buffoons who host the show sit at the roundtable acting like over-grown 12 year olds, joking, and yucking it up. The unwritten rule seems to be, "everything is funny." "Hey, Jim! Look at that hit dished out by Lewis--Booom!!! Ah ha ha!!!" "Yeah, Jerry, the guy is still on the ground--wow!!! What a hit!!! Ah, ha ha ha!!!" It is even worse when you consider who actually attends the games. These are not all teenagers dressed in their haloween costumes. Most are adults who spend nearly a $100 per ticket, not to mention food, beer, caps, parking, etc. It seems there is even a dress code. Each attendee must shell out $100 or more for an authentic, NFL-approved Jersey, w/ the name and number of his over-paid hero on it. One time recently, I went to a monday night game, and felt nearly naked w/out my costume. It seems this is true in nearly every sport, except golf.
In contrast to all of that, my girlfriend, who is from Chicago, has a huge photo in her bathroom of a scene outside of Wrigley field from around the late 1030's, early 1940's. It is amazing--everyone is wearing a long trench coat, nearly every guy has on a fedora, and the few women that are pictured are dressed in their sunday best. The thing that really looks funny is nearly everyone is smoking a cigarette.
My theory is the "greatest" generation created the most spoiled generation in history--the yuppies--and they are literally incapable of growing up. What else could it be? Could there ever be a greater example of yuppiedom than Bill Clinton, the perpetual adult-child, with his stupid grin pasted on his face?
Oldmanriver| 8.25.11 @ 11:26AM
So you go around dressed to the nines all the time?
Occam's Tool| 8.25.11 @ 2:26PM
OldManRiver---they used to. They used to dress well. Myself, I have a problem with heat intolerance. But I used to dress in gorgeous suits.
JimH| 8.25.11 @ 3:44PM
For someone with heat intolerance you sometimes seem kinda keen to have our troops in some the world’s warmer locations. If we invade Canada will you volunteer?
Occam's Tool| 8.25.11 @ 5:56PM
Hmmmm...that's a thought.
But if you checked, I did volunteer---and they didn't want to give me a ROTC Medical Scholarship. At the time (1984) there was no war, and scholarships were in keen competition.
Besides, JimH---I believe in keeping scum occupied there, with collateral damage there, not here. Why this is especially important is the following:
Have you looked at the demographic data on who's having babies and who is not---in 20 years time (2030) you can tell who will have a surplus of army aged young men and who won't. CIA Factbook. Spend some time with it. Don't take my word on anything. But here's a hint: Make a list of Islamic majority countries and Western European Civilization countries (do include Singapore, South Korea, Israel, and Japan). Check out median ages---now---and babies per woman (2.1 is replacement). Get a world map and start plotting. After this is done, feel free to criticize me some more. I've done this, you see. I can count.
Hint: Yemen is doing much better than the UK and France.
Occam's Tool| 8.25.11 @ 6:03PM
By the way, I went to undergrad at TCU and Medical School at UTMB and Residency at UCLA, and practiced for 7 years in Alabama. I know about hot climes.
scotchieguy| 8.25.11 @ 6:27PM
Not at all. But I don't still look like a twelve year old w/ my cool jersey.
Stoddard| 8.25.11 @ 1:34PM
Baby boomers were awful parents.
Now their kids are parents.
Where are the grown-ups?
Bob Grant| 8.25.11 @ 3:10PM
They are is their 70's and 80's and completely ignored.
On the bright side, they will be considered the last generation allowed to age gracefully.
Wendy| 8.25.11 @ 10:06AM
Recently I learned that a group of adults in their 30s and 40s were forming a Hide and Seek club. I kid you not. They live in a university town in the Midwest, so perhaps the widespread slacker mentality and the Peter Pan Syndrome are inhibiting their ability to grow up. What's most worrisome, however, is the probability that grown men (and women) hiding in bushes and behind fences will scare the heck out of real children. And lead to a little time in a very adult sort of jail.
diviz| 8.25.11 @ 10:16AM
Kickball is just bowling with fresh air and more running. But I suppose Orlet has a problem with bowling leagues as well.
Gary| 8.25.11 @ 10:34AM
At age 65 I must confess to a mild Peter Pan syndrome and wax nostalgic about my joyous youth. I do not, however, play kickball and even didn't do so as a kid. I do recall with fondness all the games and silliness we as boys played at but, hey, I know I can't go back and all those things would bore me now. I do weary of the serious life though, having raised a family but losing my daughter at age 28 and the recent death of my wife of 41 years weighs upon me like a permanent black cloud. I read, sing and play guitar as a hobby, play online games, and do have family life with my son and his family attend church, and Rotary club. I do not, however, propose to act like an old fool and try to act like I'm in my thirties. It is pitiful when people do so as we know for the most part it is a lie or at best an affectation to pretend we are still young. I do enjoy the young though seeing their discovery of life, their silly antics, their mistakes, so I guess this is my vicarious way of enjoying youth again, but to act it out again, no way, it would be a lie and beneath my dignity and make me look the fool I would be.
Oldmanriver| 8.25.11 @ 10:44AM
Why are kick ball leagues any different from bowling , softball , golf or other useless sports that adults play? I dont enjoy athletics so I dont play but who cares. Im 40 single and I make just shy of $100k per year. Im not going to get married ever. Please explain how this makes me immature. Please also explain how getting married and having kids will somehow enrich my life? I like to travel, read books and shoot. My life is very good. Why should I risk it for the supposed "happiness" that all the other adults are having. All I see in married people is unhappiness, financial ruin and stress. Ill let the losers of life raise families. Ill die alone, it doesnt bother me as I live alone. Why do you care how other people live there life?
YeloStalyn| 8.25.11 @ 1:06PM
I would suggest that marriage, in and of itself, is not the thing that is causing unhappiness. It's people forcing themselves to be together when they shouldn't be. I don't begrudge you from being single. If that is where you find the most happiness, go for it. But to express disdain for the raising of a family? Like you said... why do you care? I mean... I'm with you... my wife and I will most likely never have children. We are not called to have them. But that doesn't mean we're not responsible nor adult about the matter. In fact, we both work in the youth department at church. So we're not anti-children or anti-family by any means. We just understand that we are not called to be parents.
Occam's Tool| 8.25.11 @ 9:35PM
Yelostalyn, you seem like a nice fellow. There are some Chinese orphan girls that could probably use a daddy like you.
YeloStalyn| 8.26.11 @ 9:49AM
Thank you for the compliment. I'm not so old as to be past the "child rearing" years of adoption (is anyone?). However, since it takes two to be parents... my wife, too, must be ready. Right now, neither of us are. That's not to say we won't ever be... but that's for God to decide.
Occam's Tool| 8.25.11 @ 2:36PM
OldManRiver---sometime, you will need someone else. Someone else's kids will be changing your diaper in the nursing home. Me---I'll have two lovely children who will watch over me.
But I do agree with you---you probably shouldn't be raising kids. I got the most perfect little girl in the world when I was 41, and the most fabulous little boy at 42. At 31, I was making about 300K a year, and now I'm making about $350K/yr. When I married the boss, my life and savings dramatically improved. With my kids, I'm saving more than ever, and my life is a fairly settled thing which I enjoy.
You may, or you may not, find that molding a young one in the way you think right is a good investment of your time. Rest assured that your enemies think it is a good use of their time. How you live your life is your business. But I make more than you and I find that putting something of myself into others is an infinitely better thing than living solo, which I did until I was 33.
Living alone with health is considerably different than living alone when not so healthy. And most of the married people I know are happy in their marriages, including my parents, who tomorrow will be celebrating their 50th. One of their children is an MD, one is an MBA. Their nieces and nephews are MDs and Investment Bankers, etc. Overall they have lived a happy and successful life.
You have skills and talent, apparently. You are missing out on passing this on. And there is some lucky girl out there who probably would appreciate you much. Good luck.
Herb| 8.25.11 @ 9:04PM
"When I married the boss, my life and savings dramatically improved."
How nice.
Occam's Tool| 8.25.11 @ 9:30PM
"The Boss" is my nickname for my wife, who runs my life. She has never been my employment boss.
However, marrying her was the best decision I ever made. Had I done it 24 months earlier, I would be retired now. My wife is awesome in many, many ways.
conservative Bob| 8.25.11 @ 4:06PM
To each his own.. but in reply to your question I believe that 80% of the joy of life comes from having children.
There is nothing that I have experienced in my just short of 60 years that compares with the feeling of having one of my grandchildren run across the room leap in to the air and wrap their little arms around my neck in their unbridled joy of seeing me.
I intentionally spend time with them teaching them how to tie a hook on a line, how to shoot, or saying their prayers with them when I tuck them in. (They spend one night each week) I reinforce their understanding of right and wrong, how to behave in public, how to look someone in the eye when you talk to them to never lie. We travel and I teach them about the wonders we see together. I read to them so that they learn the value of reading.
I have been married since I was 19 years old, I am fortunate in that married up. My experience in marriage is that I have shared life joys and pleasures with my partner and soul mate. In the most challenging times my burden has been eased by a partner eager to share the load. I have found marriage much like most other things in life it is an investment. It is the most important thing in the world to me and I treat it as such. I wake up every day thankful that in my inexperienced youth, I was blessed to find such a special person to share my life with..... We have made good money and owned businesses, worked together and separately. We have been through good times and bad together. While we are both self reliant independent people I cannot imagine how difficult it would have been to gone through some of life’s challenges without her, or why anyone would want to.
I am sorry that your experiences of marriage have been so negative. I am sorrier still that you think those of us who choose to share our life with another and raise families are losers. I wish that for just one moment you could experience what it is like to feel tiny fingers around your neck as your grandchild teaches you the meaning of limitless unquestioned pure love. It is humbling. It is awe inspiring. It is limitless. Enjoy your travels and you books and your guns, I enjoy them too, just with my family and especially my grand children.
vladdy| 8.25.11 @ 8:00PM
Why do people who brag about not being married remind me of people who brag about not being Christians?
Appleby| 8.25.11 @ 11:04PM
Perhaps because you feel vaguely threatened by people who are happy in a different way from you?
I am a spinster and always will be; I might have made a good Army wife in the 1950s, but generally speaking I think I would have made the man who married me join the Foreign Legion. I have yet to meet a man with a backbone who wanted a smart, opinionated, self-sufficient wife. And I just never could bring myself to dummy down just to be married.
My sisters have 8 marriages among them, and none were happy. My folks were married for 62 years and only death parted them. You cannot find such committed men today. Or anyway I never could.
Poppakap| 9.2.11 @ 1:05AM
Your comment supplies the precise information needed to understand why you never wed.
Who Knows?| 8.25.11 @ 12:37PM
It’s fun to particularize our bemoaning of the way Americans have grown “down”, especially since the dastardly sixties.
Keep in mind the “infant-child-adolescent-adult” track conventional wisdom uses to measure how new born humans---that’s us!---are supposed to mature. Ignore, for now, the stages experienced after retirement and right before death.
This kickball imbroglio is just one of the manifestations of the failure of Americans to grow up, and I posit that the true split isn’t between the adolescent and adult, but even has to do with hanging out in the infantile and/or childish dimensions.
Isn’t it CHILDREN who play kickball? Don’t adolescents “graduate” to more advanced games, like baseball, football, etc?
It’s a mere distraction, IMHO, for us to seriously wander in the realm of concern about the wicked aspects of playing kickball, when the unavoidable truth is more prevalent and threatening to our very survival as a free country.
It’s the DIET, stupid!
People value scientific proof, in these days of ultra-materialism, which eschew higher stages and spirituality---except for downtown religious church going, which has zip to do with real spirituality.
So, use the eyes to SEE and take into account the gross number of gross Americans. They---you?---didn’t accidentally attain such heavy weight! You become what you eat!
And, it’s in this vital area of life that some serious GROWING UP is needed.
Essentially, then, what we’re experiencing these days is a vast majority of Americans who are locked into infantile and/or childish behavior, when it has to do with sticking stuff in the mouth.
Allow me to offer an insight—what’s the first taste a newborn wraps his or her mouth around? On the tit, mother’s milk---which is SWEET.
And, NOW?
What is the taste that permeates the food dimension, punctuated with overwhelming advertising---SWEETNESS!
Yes, it’s sugar, and these dark dietary UN-GROWN-UP days, “high” science has foisted HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP or HFCS on the whole nation. Ergo, fattening “hogs”, becoming so ubiquitous that they are taking over---after all, when the majority is fat, well: got to please your audience!
Foe example, in my small southern Oregon town of Medford, the CBS affiliate TV station has gone from trying out a morbidly obese guy as weatherman, and even featuring him getting bariatric surgery at the local hospital.
Evidently he didn’t cut it, so since then we’ve has a “robust” blonde youngster who exudes vital personality while she happily does the weather report.
Yes---science PROVES that America is ALREADY a childish and infantile nation, so how can anyone expect a nation composed of such lowly evolved individuals to act other than their REAL AGE?
Slacker| 8.25.11 @ 12:50PM
Even this unmarried, dirt bag, abdicator of domestic responsibility slacker must acknowledge adult kickball is pathetic. Those clowns are armature slackers and I can’t defend them.
Kevin D | 8.25.11 @ 1:14PM
Would you say the same thing about if he had joined a baseball league? Flag football league? I've been in a few kickball leagues myself, and people go primarily as a way to kick back, enjoy a few beers, and meet people from outside their normal social circles. Its not people 'refusing to grow up'
JShizzle| 8.25.11 @ 1:38PM
Why do people care if others play kickball or dodgeball or badminton? Who are you to judge adults on their free time? Last time I checked, everyone was all huffy about the lack of exercise people were getting. I haven't played kickball since 3rd or 4th grade, but it sounds like harmless fun. Add beer and friends and you have a fun afternoon. The world sucks right now. We have a government that wants to control everything and is actively ruining the economy...what's wrong with some fun? Are there limits that adults should follow? Of course. But the author and others that have a problem with fun or want to impose their ideals on others should maybe lighten up just a little bit. Personally, my wife and I can't wait to play kickball and dodgeball with our kids. Oh, and she runs a cancer center and I run my family's propane company.
Hank Hill| 8.25.11 @ 4:27PM
I run a propane business myself. But I can't get my good for nothing son, Bobby, away from the Wii. And I think my wife is a lezbo.
Bill Dauterive| 8.25.11 @ 9:24PM
NooOOOOOOOOOO!
vladdy| 8.25.11 @ 8:02PM
"...everyone was all huffy about the lack of exercise people were getting. "
I don't think michelle obama is everybody.
conservative Bob| 8.25.11 @ 2:42PM
I have been married for 40 years since I was 19. I have run businesses, own (and pay for property) work worry plan and do all things necessary and required and more. (I am leading currently an effort to form a volunteer fire department in our area) I have been responsible all of my life.
The greatest fun/joy of my life is playing with my grand children; playing their games teaching them all manner of things. Sharing their wonder at lightening bugs, and where to find the sweetest part of a young wheat stalk, teaching them to shoot, ride, how to play is treasure beyond measure.
I disagree with the author’s take here. I do not agree that it is bad for adults to have fun or be silly or play children’s game. I think it keeps you young. I hope that should I live to be 80 I can still play with them still laugh and have fun.
I read or heard someone I think it was Michael Savage, talking about how hard adult life is with its burdens and responsibilities. He went on a rant about how one must reconcile their self to the fact that life is hard and boring. That to be an adult on must accept these facts. I don’t often listen to him but as I heard his words I wanted to scream at the radio how wrong he is. Life is a joy; every moment is a precious gift. Maybe because I at one point came extremely close to losing it that I understand what a precious gift it is. Yes there are challenges and a responsible individual will and should shoulder those burdens as they arise but even the most difficult of times has taught me something.
To see the world again through the eyes of a three year old where everything is a discovery and a wonder is a gift I wish I could recover. I have never sought to avoid responsibility, I have always pulled my own weight and more, sometimes much more. To be able to let your hair down and be a little silly, to laugh with friends and family until tears run down our face and we lose our breath is a good thing it is the spice of life. To put aside a moment the burdens of this world to take a moment to enjoy the people you share it with is what binds us, it is the stuff from which our memories are drawn.
Laughter and fun are the grease that lubricates the wheels of life. The issues of avoiding personal responsibility and inappropriate public behavior are a character flaws. We have an abundance of people in our society with these flaws. My guess is that the games they play did not cause the character flaws but rather they brought their flaws to the game. In this world we enjoy with 1 in 5 people being under or unemployed, with the cultural wars raging around us and the very continuance of our way of life in the balance, with the caveat that the drinking not be to the extent of public intoxication and that children are not exposed to inappropriate bawdy or over sexual behavior, I believe that we should refrain from judging them.
Bob Grant| 8.25.11 @ 3:15PM
Conservative,
Savage made the point to elicit the fantastic response you just gave.
That's why Savage is great.
Petronius| 8.25.11 @ 2:49PM
Is the definition of maturity what we play in public, or how? Is the pleasure of the game and proficiency in it which gives pleasure, or is it escapism? The public drunkenness and what followed led to those people being denied further use of Tower Grove Park which is not municipally owned. We should ask whether this situation has lead to fewer people becoming well adjusted mature adults than not. Examine the present state of our polity. When objective truth is given least consideration and emotion trumps all reason, it seems that kickball is the most most people can handle. On the other hand, the machinations of some guys I knew playing tournament chess would make any sane person turn around and run. But lately I see rays of hope. The young high school and college age people who frequent my club make honest assessments of their talents and aspirations before planning their goals in life and engaging in the efforts required to attain them. So play what you like on Sunday afternoon. Just don't call in drunk on Monday.
CalMark| 8.25.11 @ 2:52PM
Lots of nasty, eternal-adolescent trolls--you know who you are--hangin' here, defending the Right of "adults" to play childish games, which you morally equate with traditional adult pursuits. In short, childish behavior and sophomoric dorm-room "logic" (more like argumentativeness) to defend childish behavior.
Grow up.
Peter Cornakovic| 8.25.11 @ 3:14PM
I very much concur with Christopher Orlet's observation of the increasing immaturity of our community. I very much disagree with him on victimizing women at men's expense though. Men may be delaying or neglecting to grow up, but the alternative is not that enticing.
Why bother growing up when there is a 50% chance of loosing your children, your house and your income for the rest of your life? Based on probability theory, divorce represents indentured servitude for men. Who would take a bet at Los Vegas if there is a 50% chance of loosing your children, your house and you income? I can hardly blame these young men for not wanting to grow up in this pathological culture, which only contributes to the psychosis of adults not acting as such.
vladdy| 8.25.11 @ 8:06PM
"Based on probability theory, divorce represents indentured servitude for men. "
Isn't this exactly what Hillary claimed, only vice versa, in her graduate thesis?
But back to spare time...Nothing beats reading. Lots of great escapism in dystopian (you can be glad you're not there) or utopian (you can hope you are) sci-fi. I just discovered all the great work by H.G. Wells that I had no idea he had written -- not the usual "Invisable Man," but the lesser known works. He really was the Rod Serling of the early 20th century.
Harry the Horrible| 8.25.11 @ 3:33PM
Well, maybe I'm an old fart, but I'd rather play with guns and than kick balls.
IDPA, SASS, IPSC, ext., are where the REAL fun for grownups is at.
Lord Karth| 8.25.11 @ 4:09PM
I have one small question for all of you.
Who on God's green earth has TIME for kickball ? Or for any other garbage like that ?
I am in my upper 40s, practice law, and I am too busy (60-75 hours a week) to get mixed up in any of that noise. I just don't have the time to waste on it.
For all you "kickball" players out there, I pose this question: Who is doing your work ?
Your servant,
Lord Karth
YeloStalyn| 8.25.11 @ 5:18PM
The people with time, who are also adults (meaning I'm not defending those who are childish in character) are those who work for what the need and not for success. Like a self-suffecient farmer. He grows what he needs, and a little extra for insurance. Then, he spends his time enjoying life rather than working for another 30 hrs.
But, for some, the things they enjoy take money. And that takes time. So, if you enjoy these "finer" things (I can't wrap my head around expensive resteraunts that serve cold roast beef as "fine dining" when you can go to the locally owned burger joint and eat the next best thing to mana from heaven for only 7 bucks) then by all means... work for it and enjoy it! And I mean that sincerely. My wife wants to travel a lot. So, we work to the point that we can pay the bills, save for tomorrow, then pay for the trip. Then, we stop. We don't have a "want" for more and would rather spend the time between a 40hr week and a 60hr week with eachother rather than at the office. But that's us. To you and yours... go for what makes you happy. And if that's kickball after a long week at the office... then play some kickball!
Le Cracquere| 8.25.11 @ 9:22PM
I can only respond as one fellow famously responded to your spiritual ancestor: "Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
Lord Karth| 8.26.11 @ 2:57PM
"It is because I AM virtuous that you have your cakes and ale. Do not yourself be as the grasshopper in summertime, but see to your stores, that they may sustain you in the time of the snow and the ice.
For if you should not do so, and come to me shivering in the cold, demanding a share of what I have put aside for mine House, I shall say unto you, 'Come unto me, and take this which you have earned."
And I shall pick up my shotgun, put a slug through your addled and degenerate pate, and watch as you fall, bloody-handed, dead and lifeless, into the snow."
Thus be it ever to thieves and tyrants !
Your servant,
Lord Karth
JP| 8.25.11 @ 4:24PM
I don't have much respect for men who continue to wear short pants, muscle shirts, sport goatees, and plaster tatoos all over thier bodies.
We're a nation of slobs.
Bob Grant| 8.25.11 @ 6:10PM
We could have another interesting thread about the constant need for many to modify one's body either by tattoos, piercings, overly freakish hairstyles, multiple plastic surgeries, and whiter-than-white teeth bleachings and implants. Many of those - in fact, the majority - are middle-aged and beyond.
Narcissism? ...Arrested Development?...Refusal to grow up and age gracefully?...
Lord Karth| 8.26.11 @ 5:13PM
Insanity. Self-mutilation of the kind you describe is a symptom of serious mental disorder, probably requiring in-patient treatment and careful re-orientation to reality.
Your servant,
Lord Karth
Bob Grant| 8.28.11 @ 9:28AM
Nah,
Just have 'em grow up. Boom. Problem solved!
Ed (USMC Ret)| 8.25.11 @ 7:28PM
A few thoughts:
1. Lack of a sense of propriety is not limited to large cities. This past weekend, my town in upstate Pennsylvania hosted the annual "Riverfest" on the banks of the Susquehanna. I saw a young man (early 20's) wearing a T-shirt that said "I'm not Mr Right, but I'll f*** you until he comes along". Too shocked to challenge him, and by the time I recovered, he was lost in the crowd.
2. Several years ago, I found a book that I gave to my 3 sons titled "101 Things a Real Man Should be Able To Do". Included: Shoot a rifle; shoot a pistol; sharpen a knife; clean a fish; balance a checkbook; BRING HOME A PAYCHECK. All these skills contribute to supporting and defending a family.
3. My wife and I have taught our 3 daughters that young women will not be treated as Ladies until they demand that they be treated as such, and act as such. It seems to have worked. Their husbands treat them as Ladies.
4. When she was in high school, my oldest daughter said to my wife, " Dad is a male chauvenist, isn't he?" My wife's response, "Yes, you're lucky".
POST American| 8.25.11 @ 11:14PM
-----Speaking of wars against adulthood-----
OUR SOURCES in Europe are reporting
the Fukishima world nuclear disaster and DEPOP
OP is being widely reported for what it is.
Remember kiddies, Europe is twice as far from the
problem as we are.
Now, can someone say ------'EUGENICS'.
super| 8.26.11 @ 12:34AM
I think 'don't trust anybody over 30' was the battle cry, but your point is still valid, John.
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avril| 8.26.11 @ 12:36AM
I read to them so that they learn the value of reading.
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lanvigne| 8.26.11 @ 12:41AM
It reminded me of ME when as a youth I did the same thing to old and ugly men!
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Uriel| 8.26.11 @ 8:35AM
This is funny--someone at work was trying to get me to join an intramural kickball league. 30-somethings that still think they are college freshmen, by the look of it.
scythe| 8.26.11 @ 5:44PM
Even the ancient ones are susceptible. They can stomp their feet and throw a tantrum just like the grankiddies-check it out whenever Social Security reform is mentioned. For the so-called "greatest generation" the rampant proliferation of SDS in their retirement communities might abate somewhat if they were attempting to kick a ball instead of... . Never mind.
Thomas J Smith| 8.28.11 @ 4:25PM
My dad and my uncle both were drafted in the '50s, my Uncle served as a Marine in Korea and from what I was told ( He never talked about it to us) he saw some of the worst fighting. I can only imagine what they would think of the Big Ballers. One of the events for my younger brothers batchelor party a few years ago, was a trip to a paint ball venue. I have to admit it was a good time and it was a part of the party my teenage nephew could participate in. What surprised me was that one of 30 year old participants had his own paint ball "outfit", paint ball helmet and air gun. The gear cost more than a 1000 pre Qualitative Easing dollars. On hearing that I thought to myself that we really need a good economic depression to get people to grow up. Well we've had about three years of it and I see no change.
Michael Miller| 9.13.11 @ 12:03PM
I am on a kickball team. We are a Catholic young adult group and play in a local parks & rec league. While there is a fair amount of drinking going on with some of the other teams (and our team will partake in a beer or two as well), profanity uttered here and there, it's not unlike any other co-ed sports league. I DO agree with your overall point that many of this generation's 30 & 40 year olds have a maturity problem. But I just wanted to let you know that there is at least one kickball team made up of fairly mature, devout Catholics who enjoy the game.