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Mann Acts
September 14, 2011 | 72 comments
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Suing NASA and UVA
August 19, 2011 | 58 comments
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Indefensible
July 27, 2011 | 59 comments
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Inhibiting an Oil and Gas Boom
July 22, 2011 | 81 comments
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Christie’s Blind Spot
June 15, 2011 | 51 comments
The Energy Spectator
Facts on Frack Attackers
The well-funded effort to poison natural gas.
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., other than his name, is known best for high profile environmental absurdities like attributing a lack of snow in Washington DC to global warming, not long before the city was dumped on with the white stuff.
And then there was the time RFK Jr. joined fellow famous descendant Theodore Roosevelt IV in Miami at Florida Gov. Charlie Crist’s climate change alarmism summit, not long before Charlie ran for Senate and flip-flopped himself right out of the Republican Party and political viability.
So dropping in to tiny Dimock Township, Pennsylvania, a year ago for a few hours with his pals from Natural Resources Defense Fund and Riverkeepers was just another day at the office for RFK Jr. The agenda for the day’s visit was to affix the tags “completely and utterly untrustworthy” and “pathological liars” to the natural gas industry, which for the last few years has built up jobs and investment in the Keystone State thanks to technological breakthroughs that enable access to the Marcellus Shale natural gas formations. Then it was off to the next credibility-killing task for Lil’ RFK.
The reason for his attack mirrored that of many other environmentalist organizations and activists against the process called hydraulic fracturing, or “fracking” in borderline profane parlance. The opportunity to demagogue in a visit to Dimock was the contamination of a few residents’ water supplies, attributed to drilling activities by Texas-based Cabot Oil and Gas Corp. Causes were chalked up to problems with materials in the cement casings of wells and a shallow gas producing formation, but there were still those who wanted to blame Cabot’s fracking, despite the company’s provision of clean water for the affected residents.
spiMethane can sometimes be found to be naturally occurring in drinking supplies, to the point where tap water can be set on fire. Take, for example, the testimony of longtime Dimock resident Phyllis Myers, who said her neighbors’ wells were “never going to clear up to crystal clear, no-methane-water because it wasn’t like that before the gas companies got here. There has been methane in the water for years.”
And Scott Perry, director of Oil and Gas Management for the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection, said, “It’s important to point out that we’ve never seen an impact to fresh groundwater directly from fracking…. A lot of folks relate the situation in Dimock to a fracking problem. I just want to make sure everyone’ s clear on this — that it isn’t.”
But there is no shortage of groups and individuals who disregard the facts because they benefit from the demonization of natural gas. That’s why the Commonwealth Foundation for Public Policy Alternatives last week published a paper last week titled, “The Great Frack Attack: The War on Natural Gas,” co-written by researcher Mark Newgent and me.
In our research we found dozens of groups, who have enjoyed access to millions of dollars in grants, thanks to their public opposition to natural gas and fracking. Notable among their funders is Teresa Heinz Kerry, who through the Heinz Endowments has poured millions of dollars into nonprofits and academics that help take the gas companies’ Marcellus efforts down a few notches. One Heinz grant went to a University of Pittsburgh health center to analyze “the major threats to the environment and health of people” from fracking in western Pennsylvania. Of course, if you’re paid to look for a problem, you’re going to find it — and they did. Another Heinz grant went to the Clean Water Fund “to characterize pollution impacts of Marcellus Shale development.” Wouldn’t you love to get thousands of dollars to “characterize” activities you hate?
Another anti-fracking project highlighted in our report is the Oscar-nominated (and — losing) film Gasland, which is a documentary in the true Michael Moore sense of the word. Also playing the “tap water on fire” image to great effect, director Josh Fox portrayed some Colorado residents as victims of fracking, when in reality the Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, a state agency, found the flammable spigots were the result of naturally occurring methane. John Hanger, former president of environmentalist group Citizens for Pennsylvania’s Future and Department of Environmental Protection Secretary under former Democrat Gov. Ed Rendell, said Gasland was “fundamentally dishonest” and “a deliberately false presentation for dramatic effect.” Even an Environmental Defense Fund policy expert called fracking “safe.”
Finally there is the so-called “journalism” nonprofit ProPublica, which I reported about recently for American Spectator. This group claims to focus “exclusively on truly important stories – stories with ‘moral force,’” and has received several millions of dollars from its liberal founder Herb Sandler. He gained his wealth from the subprime mortgage crisis and has helped support Center for American Progress, the ACLU and EarthJustice, among many other leftist groups.
Part of ProPublica’s search for “moral force” has apparently driven it to publish a 120-article series on the alleged dangers of gas industry fracking, also falsely attributing water contamination to the process. I’m not sure if that outnumbers Woodward and Bernstein in the early 1970s, but it certainly matches their zeal, if not their accuracy.
An agenda, and lots of money, are behind efforts that undermine fossil fuel development (both oil and gas shale) in our country. Lies and distortions, effectively publicized, may kill it before U.S. drilling produces enough to make a difference in gas prices and in our dependence on energy sources from the Middle East.
About the Author
Paul Chesser is executive director for the American Tradition Institute and a senior fellow for the Commonwealth Foundation for Public Policy Alternatives. The views he expresses do not necessarily reflect the views of these organizations.
Lawrence Boccardi| 8.3.11 @ 6:30AM
I don't just visit Northeast PA, I live here. There is no greater pro-business, free-enterprise lout, alive. I'm troubled by pollution to our drinking water, removal of 1,000,000 gallons per day, from the Delaware River, then dumping it back into the ground, chemicals and all. An oversight board, comprised mainly of industry zealots. And mostly troubled at being lumped in with the enviro-wackos, when I have legitimate concerns.
Bob K.| 8.3.11 @ 6:58AM
Right Lawrence!
Chesser has written a bunch of crap here and he knows it.
I live here too, and there are already over 4000 fracked wells in Pennsylvania. And Chesser knows it!
And it take 3 Million Gallons of water to frack each one of them. And then the water must be pumped out and treated and disposed of. And the traffic from these trucks supplying water to the wells is destroying our roads and bridges. And he knows that too.
And Chesser knows that the legislature of PA refuses to put an Extraction Tax on the Industry which every other state that has Fracking in it does to the industry.
And Chesser, because of his job, probably knows how much the Industry paid out to get this special privilege that the Industry does not have in the aforementioned states.
And PA has the most miles of roads and more bridges than any other state in the USA. And Chesser knows that their maintenance is the biggest item in the states budget.
And Chesser knows that the former Congressman from the 10th District of PA lives in Dimock and was thrown out of office because he never said one word about his neighbors plight and took big contributions from the Gas Industry.
And Chesser knows that a Norwegian Corporation has purchased part of Chesapeake Energy so that they can start explorations in PA.
And Chesser also knows that most of this gas is going to be sold to Royal Dutch Shell and will be piped to Northern Jersey rather than stay in Pennsylvania and be distributed throughout the USA.
You can follow this shale gas controversy in our local newspaper here:
http://citizensvoice.com/news/.....z1Txdi9RHS
This isn't like Texas where they just dump the fracking water into a dry oil well hole to dispose of it. It goes back into our water table here.
Have you considered| 8.3.11 @ 10:04AM
After a similar topic a couple weeks ago here at TAS, I did a google search on "fracking" and "report"
What I found was many conflicting articles and reports.
I did read that the EPA has just selected several fracking sites to study, and their initial report is due, if I recall, in late 2012 or early 2013.
I did read an article that stated that well water samples were not taken Before the fracking started....I had to wonder why. This to me seems like it would have provided some empirical evidence to be able to contrast the Before water quality to the After quality. It seems to me that any company concerned about legal liability would have taken this minimal step, If the operation was truly safe. The lack of this data point implies the opposite to me. But I can same the same for the well owners...why didn't they do water samples Before they allowed fracking on their property?
I also read an article that the local environmental authorities have continual testing of downstream water from the treatment plants, that show no degradation of water quality in the rivers and streams.
To me, the jury is still out on this. I am well aware of the buying of studies to support the desired outcome, and I extend this bias even to the EPA. So to me, I just don't know who to believe at this point.
TrueBlue| 8.3.11 @ 3:01PM
Any time the EPA is involved I immediately discredit whatever their statement is, I should probably stop doing that... That said, if they have tests showing no degredation downstream from the treatment plants it makes me wonder how much of the effect to local wells is actually from the fracking itself, and how much is a naturally occuring cycle. You would think, even without fracking in the area, they would have been doing constant tests on the water table to make sure it was safe given that they knew it already contained some levels of methane.
Has anyone checked to see how many people had suffered negative effects from local water supplies before fracking started? How many of those people already filtered or treated their water before using it? I know in some of the valleys in Central Washington they have a naturally higher sulfur content so pretty much everyone uses filters or boils their water before use.
Topper| 8.4.11 @ 4:06AM
Fracking causes air, water, noise, and visual
pollution...
Timothy L. Pennell| 8.4.11 @ 6:39AM
You left out JOBS. It causes JOBS, and INCOMES to people, who then go out and STIMULATE the Economy.
Your stupid comment is the only "Visual Pollution" I see.
Foxfier | 8.4.11 @ 3:22PM
Not sure about Bob's other claims, but the claim that PA has more miles of road and bridges than any other state is false. As anyone familiar with a map of the US may have guessed, Texas is the state that has the most road-miles, while California is #2. Texas also takes first place for the number of bridges, followed by Ohio. PA isn't even close.
http://www.artba.org/about/faq.....c/faqs/#16
Doctor_X| 8.3.11 @ 7:16AM
I live in Western PA and we have seen the damage done to the water supplies of our neighbors in the Northeastern part of the state. Companies like Range Resources have moved in with the big PR departments to try to tell us all will be well, but we know it won’t! We had cases of chemically mixed water and fracting fluid has been dumped into sewer systems not setup to handle toxic waste. We have already seen chemical spills and contaminated rivers and streams while our elected officials create advisory boards with members drawn from the natural gas industry. Talk about putting the fox in charge of the hen house!
I know groups like Propublica have an agenda, one I do not agree with but that doesn’t lessen the danger of natural gas fracting.
coal carrier| 8.3.11 @ 8:11AM
I'm from PA too.
NO coal, no oil, no natural gas. That is the solution for the lefties born into wealth like Heinz and Kennedy. I hope you people have a lot of windmills and solar panels to heat your homes in the middle of February.
Kitty| 8.3.11 @ 7:13AM
I live minutes from the NY/PA border on the NY side, and I have no problem with fracturing. If the country ever has hopes of becoming energy independent, tapping our plentiful natural gas resources is one way.
Timothy L. Pennell| 8.3.11 @ 7:22AM
O.K. It takes 3 Million Gallons of water to frack each one of them. Then it must be pumped out, treated, and disposed of.
So, what's the problem? I'm quite certain that YOU are not paying for all of that. Is it because the water is being "TREATED"? Because RAW SEWAGE get "TREATED" every day of the year. Then, it's "DISPOSED" of, in to the nearest Stream. I guess you think that we should stop treating THAT water?
The trucks that are supplying the water to the wells are "Ruining the Roads and Bridges".
I'm sure that these Companies have paid A LOT to your State, for the Right to do their work. I'm sure that the ROADS are included in the deal.
And, you don't like the fact that a NORWEGIAN COMPANY has made an INVESTMENT in your State, in an effort to DO BUSINESS, that will CREATE JOBS for the PEOPLE of Pennsylvania.
And, the Oil is going to NEW JERSEY, and Distributed throughout THE USA?
Those BASTARDS!
I think that, perhaps, you might wanna stop writing your Manifesto, get out of your shack, grab your pictures of the Unibomber, and go sit in a Tree, somewhere on your Flat Earth.
The rest of us?
We're moving FOREWARD.
gearjammer| 8.3.11 @ 8:20AM
Outstanding. Let them have it. DEmand debates.
Bob K.| 8.3.11 @ 10:01AM
Timothy,
You know nothing! They haven't paid a dime yet. That's why we need an Extraction Tax like all the rest of the states have.
And the gas that is going to Northern New Jersey will be used in New York City and New England and all those Liberal Bastions of Environmentalism who send Liberals to congress to tax and regulate our Coal, Oil and Nuclear Energy Industry.
People like you are being played for suckers by the Obama Administration who have you fooled into thinking that Natural Gas will solve all our energy problems.
In reality the fact that the Oil, Coal and Nuclear Industries have been taxed and regulated to death and the Gas Industry hasn't means that Obama and the Liberals are subsidizing the Gas Industry. And you know that will end too, once the Gas starts pumping in volume!
It's all about controlling the people.
Have you considered| 8.3.11 @ 10:37AM
I believe that "extraction taxes" are typically derived from leases and royalties for operations on government owned lands. The government sells the right to develop the lands, and charge royalties for the materials extracted, ostensibly because The People own the land, and therefore should participate in the benefits.
I think I read that most of this fracking is occurring on Privately Held land...I could be wrong on this, but I was reading a lament that the private owners charged too little for the rights to develop their lands.
So you are saying that the government should impose a special tax for operations on privately held lands, other than general income taxes and excises. I will also make the guess that the owners of this land have had their property taxes go up, as the assessed value has gone up.
By extension, this implies to me that you believe that the government owns all land, and that they somehow have the right to negotiate the use, and derive the benefit of that use, verses the legal owner of the property.
So conversely, if you own a piece of land, and you Don't want it developed, you think the state has a right to do it anyway, so that they can benefit by increased flows to the public treasury, and you should have no say in the matter.
Is this what you are saying?
Have you considered| 8.3.11 @ 10:49AM
I forgot to add that, as these companies are paying the land owners, this is income to these owners, and is taxed as such, both state and federal.
Are there any PA qualified CPAs out there that can flesh out the fracking tax revenue streams?
Bob K.| 8.3.11 @ 11:43AM
I can't answer your 2nd question about CPA's but there are quite a few websites in Pennsylvania about this issue.
This is a big issue in PA. Google Fracking web in Pennsylvania and you will come up with 2,230,000 hits.
Bob K.| 8.3.11 @ 11:27AM
No, it is not what I am saying. This tax exists in every other state that has a gas industry. Pennsylvania is the only state that does not have it. You will have to extend your argument to all the other states for it to be valid and for all practical purposes it will never be agreed with by the elected officials of any of these states so we are wasting our time on it.
I won't respond further except to say that if we can get all the damages caused in these operations paid for by the people who own the land and are receiving profit therefrom it's alright with me! But fat chance of that!
We are talking here not about damage and inconvenience to these people and their property but damage and inconvenience suffered by people who use the roads and bridges and waters properly owned and maintained by the state. They also have to live with the damages and inconveniences caused by this industry.
Have you considered| 8.3.11 @ 11:51AM
As you seem absolutely convinced that other states are doing this, it implies to me you have concrete knowledge.
Can you please post a link to any state department of revenue publication that details this taxing of material production on private lands?
Or give me a true tax statute name, that I can google?
I am very interested in learning about these topics, and I can easily be convinced by facts.
Thank you.
Have you considered| 8.3.11 @ 12:30PM
Bob, you are correct that many states in fact do levy excises and taxes for materials extracted on privately owned land.
Here is a GAO link if you like:
http://archive.gao.gov/d44t15/148904.pdf
I guess that PA can, and most likely will, impose additional taxes on these operations.
Bob K.| 8.3.11 @ 2:10PM
Thank you for the link. I did not have it but it is mentioned so often in newspaper articles and editorials that I was reasonably certain it was true.
My guess is that the PA state legislature will have to be carried kicking and screaming to vote for this. There is much pressure for it though, so they will probably do it. I'm not putting money on it however.
russel| 8.3.11 @ 1:18PM
Yes , here in the Rockies , we see our coal being sold to China . Thirteen natural gas power plants have been built in Az. because coal is outlawed there . We have natural gas industry because that's about all that's left to heat your domicile and food . Go ahead and try wood and see how far that gets you . Oh wait , you're hugging that tree - it can't be cut .
Bob K.| 8.3.11 @ 2:25PM
There are many trees in Penn's Woods and there are many cottage industries that have sprung up doing business in firewood. It has been around as an alternative fuel for years. I remember our family burning wood in the coal stove when the Anthracite Mines were on strike in my childhood Many baseball bats are made from the White Ash trees that grow here and Maple Syrup from Sugar Maples is another small industry. After the mines became a memory with a constant reminder from the acid streams that still flowed through the state, we switched to oil for heat and later coal generation plants were built along with Nuclear Plants to supply Electricity for heat and energy. Some cities had natural gas pumped up from Louisiana for heat. Soon that gas will be liquified and sent to countries like India and Pakistan. Cheniere Energy Partners, LP is already in the process of preparing for that.
http://www.cheniereenergypartn.....ject.shtml
If you are lucky you MIGHT have some wood to burn!
John Navratil| 8.3.11 @ 6:33PM
Bob K.
And then there is the pesky problem of no-burn days because of all the flue gases and soot sitting in a temperature inversion because of the use of a romantic but horribly energy inefficient fuel.
I want my wood fire for two things: grilling steaks and sitting next to while sipping Cognac. I'll be please to heat my house with natural gas.
Bob K.| 8.3.11 @ 7:16PM
Sure you would! As long as it isn't coming out of the ground in your neighborhood and fouling the place where you live and sleep!
Liberals like to live in environmentally green and pristine neighborhoods at other's expense and inconvenience.
John Navratil| 8.3.11 @ 7:37PM
Bob K.
But then you know I am a conservative (not Republican) and not very sympathetic to Luddites.
Bob K.| 8.4.11 @ 2:22PM
Nobody is a Luddite here John!
We have to live with this, you don't. When you retire, relocate up here to PA's northern tier counties. Real Estate will be very reasonable but you won't be able to buy the mineral rights etc. Local taxes will necessarily be high too.
I'm a Conservative and a Republican.
Timothy L. Pennell| 8.4.11 @ 6:48AM
Excuse me. "Played for suckers by Obama"?
I was on to this POS from the BEGINNING. I was out there when you were still pleasuring yourself to your Sister's Yearbook Picture.
And, next time you make your LIST of Northeastern "Liberal Bastions" don't forget PENNSYLVANIA. The home of the Black Panthers Polling Place Intimidation Fiasco.
Last I looked, it was a BLUE State.
Bob K.| 8.4.11 @ 2:33PM
But you talk like you got suckered into believing that gas can replace oil, coal and nuclear.
You should be carrying a placard around saying:
"Gas Is the Answer thanks to Obama! He made it all possible! No taxes on it. No regulations either."
W| 8.3.11 @ 7:57AM
Over 72,000 well paying jobs have been created so far in Pa as a result of the gas drilling. Most people have no complaints. Landowners are receiving royalty checks for leases. This is the usual anti-business enviro crowd. If there is a Kennedy involved, the safe choice is to take the opposite view.
Timothy L. Pennell| 8.3.11 @ 8:06AM
And, it never bothers these people, that Mr. ENVIRONMENTALIST, Mr. GREEN ENERGY, fought tooth and nail, to prevent a Wind Farm from being erected in CAPE COD BAY.
Where HE lives.
NIMBY Boy.
John - TMF| 8.3.11 @ 8:17AM
On top of that, you'd think that somebody smart would come up with an affordable well head that separated methane and water.
Gee, think of all of the methane that cold be collected and used in a local power plant, or inside a home for heating?
Sort of like during the days of horse drawn buggies and kerosene lanterns the oil companies would burn off their gasoline fractions for lack of a market.
There are lots of people who need to get their heads screwed on straight before this nation ends up a third world backwater.
r/John - TMF
John Navratil| 8.3.11 @ 6:36PM
John - TMF
The few grams of methane in the water would not be worth capturing. Boiling or simply letting the water rest will allow it to escape.
Bob K.| 8.3.11 @ 10:33AM
W.
That is pure Bull!
You live here you find out that all the drilling jobs go to out of state workers. In fact the INS raided one company recently for using Illegal Immigrants! Local truckers and those who can haul water are doing OK and so is the minimum wage restaurant and motel industry but no one else is. Schools are being forced to hire new teachers for the children of the out of state workers.
Here is a recent editorial in a local paper about the industry's great deal in not having to pay an extraction tax to help defray the expense it is causing the state from road damage and the aforementioned rise in education costs.
GAS BOOMS STATE DOESNT!
http://citizensvoice.com/opini.....z1TyYDdOFx
W| 8.3.11 @ 10:48PM
Bob K, guess what , I do live here. I personally know many Pa residents who got good paying jobs, some office such as HR, some in sales, some in production, and so on. There is work for attorneys and accountants. Real estate agents are selling homes to people moving here.
Deal with reality, not your enviro wacko politics.
JimH| 8.3.11 @ 8:20AM
A necessary condition for a successful free market is that property rights be recognized and enforced. If fracking is viable under those conditions then go for it.
Tenn Slim| 8.3.11 @ 8:22AM
The cry for Taxing the Rich should fall on the shoulders of these Foundations that support such enviornmental trash. How about a Capital Gains Foundation tax somewhere in the region of 50% ?
Understand clearly, the Left will not go quietly into the night. A Conservative Re Election win in 2012 is simply the start. A thorogh house cleaning of the MONEY trails is in order, to loosen the poles of the Foundations that support the Left.
Semper Fi
MikeBee| 8.3.11 @ 8:59AM
The people and groups who are leading the way to complain about fracking are the same people and groups who wanted to starve farmers in central California. They cut off the water supply to the farmers, making it impossible for them to grow anything, simply because a tiny little fish was found near their water source. I won't believe that these people and environmental groups really care about protecting human beings from anything until they start acting like it, all the time.
Bob K.| 8.3.11 @ 10:52AM
Not in Pennsylvania!
Chesser would like everybody to think this but the people raising hell here are the people who have to live with it. These people are being told that they will have to put up with companies who shit where they sleep so that other people can live an environmentally green and pristine life! These people never heard of any of the groups Chesser named. Even the movie Gasland was made by a kid barely out of his teens who lived in a small village along the Delaware River in PA. I've was there years ago when I fished the Delaware. There might be 20 houses in the village.
The forces of democracy and populism that are working in our Republic work even at the local levels and that is what is happening here in PA. You can read it every day in the local newspapers and hear it on the local talk shows.
And what is going to happen unless someone gets smart fast is that come 2012 PA is going to swing back to the Democrats because of this. And I am a Conservative and I don't want to see any more of Obama and the liberals.
People like Chesser have no allegiances. They are neither Conservative or Liberal. Their loyalties are to the Corporations they work for or for the one's that fund their publications. And you people who fall for their line are suckers.
Petronius| 8.3.11 @ 9:14AM
Understand what environmentalism is really about; preventing commerce in natural resources. Lefties hate to see others making money if it isn't given to them to waste.
AllenTexas5| 8.3.11 @ 9:44AM
If the environuts are so worried about the 'contaminated' water, come up with a plan to open a business that cleans the water for the oil & gas companies for a profit, get investors together, and create a business that will create real jobs. Then expand the company and their idea in other areas of the US where fracking it occuring and create more jobs... but do not ask for a government subsidy for this business. Have these groups sponsoring the environuts movement fund the business. Wait, that would be the free market, and they hate the free market and making a profit.... never mind.
John Navratil| 8.3.11 @ 6:38PM
AllenTexas5,
This business is already nascent.
Dai Alanye | 8.3.11 @ 10:03AM
My father (gone for many years) used to amuse friends by lighting the spurt of methane that came out of his faucet when first turned on. No fracking involved, simply a characteristic of shallow wells in his area.
And by the way--"flammable spickets?" It's "spigots," doofus. Professionals writers with spellcheck shouldn't make this kind of "misteak."
Nick| 8.3.11 @ 10:37AM
Dai Alanye,
You mean a "misteak" like "Professionals writers [sic]"? Ha-ha!
Pot calling kettle. Just giving you a hard time, Dai!
Your point is well taken. I suspect there has always been methane in water wells. I wonder if there have ever been any real studies on this subject? Or, if fracturing has increased the methane content?
I'm sure that watermelon tree-huggers and AGW Hoaxers are exploiting and exaggerating this situation. Lying just comes natural for them.
Struart Ballagh| 8.3.11 @ 6:39PM
It is easy to tell the difference between the methane in water that originated from the fracking wells and biological methane. The Scientific American recently reported that researchers from Duke University measured the ratio of radioactive carbon to identify fossil natural gas from Marcellus shale in Pennsylvania wells - which distinguishes it from the biological methane that can be found in in them. Maybe this was done in Dimock, but it wouldn’t be too hard to clear up the confusion if it wasn't. http://www.scientificamerican......ater-wells
Nick| 8.4.11 @ 10:08AM
Mr. Ballagh,
Too bad it was Scientific American, which is neither a peer-reviewed periodical, nor, a reputable one. They promote the AGW Hoax, after all.
Kingofthenet| 8.3.11 @ 11:58AM
Well than I guess the Gas companies are greedy or incompetent. You say the gas companies are providing water, for how long? Why did they drill in an unstable shallow formation?
John Navratil| 8.3.11 @ 6:50PM
Kingofthenet,
If the water already had methane in it, the unstable shallow formation already was a problem. Thousands of wells (including water wells) are drilled and cased regularly specifically to separate the water aquifers which exist from a few dozen feet (zero in the case of artesian springs) to several hundred feet in depth and the petroleum formations of interest which are thousands of feet down. It's why well casing is required. Note that shallow "bad" water layers are often cased to separate them from the "good" water layers below.
I don't know the details of this particular well, but for Cabot to have caused this requires a casing failure allowing hydrocarbons to migrate from the producing layer into the aquifer. Quite possible, but unlikely.
Kingofthenet| 8.3.11 @ 12:26PM
The fact that the Gas Companies don't do any pre-drilling testing, and the fact they are paying people to truck in water tells you ALL you need to know. You don't pay if you can prove you didn't cause a problem. That sets up bad precedent. Gas Companies could simply offer a 'Million Dollar' policy to all landowners, it's safe right? The fact that NO Insurance company will EVER insure these operations, against contamination, tells you they are SCARED they are going to make MONSTER payouts, and it isn't 'rare' damage.
John Navratil| 8.3.11 @ 6:58PM
Kingofthenet,
What pre-drilling testing do you suggest?
Paying to truck in water can be motivated by many factors - demonstration of good faith, mitigation of damages, customer good-will - and doesn't constitute any admission of the sort you suggest.
Your assertion "You don't pay if you can prove you didn't cause a problem" is a logical absurdity. One can never prove a negative. Prove to me, for example, that you don't sleep with a "Snoopy" blanket.
Show me ANY operation which is not covered by a blanket liability policy. It doesn't happen.
David| 8.3.11 @ 12:42PM
Again...
Listening to someone who supports something profess to it's wholesomeness is equal to Hitler professing the virtues of mass murder.
Talk to those who live in the communities where it occurs and you get a much different story. Polluted water supply is merely the most visible result that the industry has managed to keep covered up for this long.
Kingofthenet| 8.3.11 @ 1:09PM
When you have 'Facts' on your side, everything is so GOLDEN. You don't need tons of high paid lobbyists or special rules. I have said it before, but will say it again, the ONLY reason Fossil fuels look so enticing is the 'upfront' price, when you figure in all the human and environmental damage costs, it looks way less appealing. (Not to mention who winds up paying that cost, usually the US taxpayer) Does the word 'Superfund' mean anything to you 'Tree Haters'?
John Navratil| 8.3.11 @ 7:00PM
Kingofthenet,
"You don't need tons of high paid lobbyists or special rules"
What does the EDF or EPA do?
Kenneth Ward| 8.3.11 @ 1:57PM
Josh Fox, producer and director of Gaslands was a no pay in my taxi. I took him to Denver International Airport on June 13, 2011. He told me his name was Roma, he tried to pay with a credit card in yet a third name which was declined. He then bolted from my cab. It took me two minutes to find him on the internet and I sent him an invoice through paypal for the $34.60 fare. He refuses to pay stating 'Sorry.' Not only is Josh Fox a liar but he is a thief as well.
Kenneth Ward
Wheat Ridge, CO 80033
Metro Taxi Cab 860
William L. Gensert| 8.3.11 @ 2:14PM
No energy source will ever get the approval of rabid environmentalists. Oil, natural gas, coal, nuclear, whatever, it doesn’t matter. Eventually they will turn on solar and wind as well. Solar takes up too much land and wind kills birds. Their disapproval of wind and solar, however, will only happen after they destroy what remains of the domestic fossil fuel industry…and nuclear, of course. They envision a world that disappeared centuries ago, and they are willing to kill most of us in an attempt to recreate it.
Pecos Pete| 8.3.11 @ 4:44PM
Agreed!
Michael Bergsma| 8.3.11 @ 2:15PM
Texas has long had a severance tax on oil and gas production. Local counties, cities and schools are paid property tax for the value of the oil and gas in the ground. The drillers and operators pay sales taxes on the equipment they buy. I seems that it is reasonable for Pennsylvania to charge similar taxes. Oh, and Texas trucks pay road use fees.
Al Adab| 8.3.11 @ 2:16PM
With no oil, gas, coal, or nuclear or hydro power, I suppose we will simply revert to firewood. At least it is "renewable" and grows on trees.
John Navratil| 8.3.11 @ 7:01PM
Al Adab,
But it make recycling aluminum cans SOOO costly ;)
NickinOKC| 8.3.11 @ 3:06PM
Google "gas/propane fracing" and you will see what a difference that will make in the whole industry: fewer trucks needed on the roads, no using millions of gallons of water, easier disposal...numerous advantages over the old method.
Stan in Sugar Land| 8.3.11 @ 3:23PM
Where to start?
1) There is no pre-frac water from the well, the formation has no free water to produce, thus no water to test. If the water in the rock (shale) were extracted the quality would be very low with large volumes of salt and other items.
2) Nearly every state at the state or local area charge taxes, ad valorem and extraction, on produced oil and gas, a good rule of thumb is about 10% of the wellhead value.
3) Gas is water wells and natural springs is common. Even Dan'l Boone relates a story of a burning spring. Growing-up in Western PA several neighbors had water water that contained methane and could be burned (likely from desorbed methane in shallow coal zones, very common in the area.
4)Separation of gas from water is simple and can be accomplished with a small low pressure vessel such as an air tank with a gas flow line out the top and a water flow line out the bottom. Google oil and gas separators to see how these work.
5)Been involved with 100's of fracs, never once did we contaminate a fresh water zone.
6)The separation between the gas producing shale and fresh water zones is several 1000's feet, a frac does not travel that far plus the fracture gradient of some shallower zones may be greater than the pumping pressure and will stop extension of the induced fracture
7)Heavy truck traffic on old, poorly designed roads can be a serious problem, better to have work than not working because "we have to protect the roads." Short term inconvience only, that can and will be repaired.
8)Is Bob K a spokesman or troll for the dems or a "green" group?
9)Just a fun fact: The first purpose drilled hydrocarbon well in the US was 27' in 1821 - Google gas well Fredonia, NY
hardcard| 8.3.11 @ 3:29PM
heinz /kerry, kennedy, they would never lie right?
Bumr50| 8.3.11 @ 5:15PM
I see the fear-mongerers have bought enough propaganda to scare even conservatives.
It's a shame.
I live in Western PA and work as a well tester in the Marcellus Shale play, and can tell you firsthand that while there are problems that need to be ironed out, no one's drinking water is at risk. Disposal methods are improving and unsafe, backwoods opportunists trying to make a quick buck by not properly treating waste water are dropping like flies as regulations catch up.
Meanwhile towns that have been dead since the steel and coal industries vanished are now thriving. You can't find a hotel room in places like Waynesburg, PA , Weston, WV, and DuBois PA. Restaurants are full. Smaller contractors are hiring like mad people who were faced with either leaving or working service or retail jobs that pay peanuts. Property values (as well as taxes generated from them) are through the roof.
So, please, spare me the pity violin about your road. There will be more than enough revenue for your municipality to repair it eventually.
Groad| 8.3.11 @ 6:53PM
Being a decendent of some of the earliest settlers of PA's west and NW I offer a bit of a history lesson. What indicated in the early 1800s that oil and gas might be there. Well, shazaam. The Indians (indigenous Americans as I call them) used to amaze and delight themselves and the settlers by setting fire to certain water pools and black goo that was oozing or floating around. Seems something was making them burn. Turns out it was petroleum and Natural Gas. It got there with no help from the hand of man.
Bob K.| 8.3.11 @ 7:22PM
Eventually your ass!
If it happened to the roads where you live you would be screaming at the County Commissioners at the next meeting and yelling for immediate government intervention!
John Navratil| 8.3.11 @ 8:14PM
Bob K.
Roads ARE a problem. They are also a problem during logging operations or any time a resource is intensively exploited. My experience (not necessarily universal) has been that the loggers tear up the road which was not designed for the activity, then they repair it.
I am not without sympathy for the inconvenience and absolutely support the notion that this external cost be internalized to the activity. Just as we don't want anyone dumping trash in the river upstream of a water plant, this is a problem which can be solved. It's not simple and must be addressed. Shutting down activity to avoid the problem is sticking ones head in the sand.
Bob K.| 8.4.11 @ 2:08PM
Nobody is talking about shutting it down. 4000 and more wells have been drilled already.
This writer said it best: "Industry often starts as a liberator but ends as a slaver because it cannot control itself. It's solution is to make more and make it faster. When sooner or later it falls into the hands of the inept or the greedy, they run it full tilt, heedless of the consequences until the soil is salted, the Dust Bowl blows away, the forests decline under acid rain, the market crashes, Bhopal suffers under a poison cloud, Chernobyl melts down." William Bryant Logan, "Oak: The frame of Civilization." p.256. W. W. Norton, 2005, ISBN 0-393004773-3
Bob K.| 8.5.11 @ 9:49AM
Here is an article from today's newspaper about the failure-so far-to convert a Coal Generation Electrical Plant to Gas. It will be down for months-into winter!
http://citizensvoice.com/news/.....z1UA6GKCdi
You will note that the CEO of the company is more interested in the profits for his company than in the electricity he is supposed to be supplying to his customers!
Bob K.| 8.5.11 @ 10:09AM
HEY CHESSER:
Here is a letter to the Editor in today's paper about the paltry royalties people subject to "forced pooling" get from Chesapeake Oil in Arkansas.
http://citizensvoice.com/opini.....z1UA8kGFeM
All of $17.00 a year! And according to Forbes magazine Chesapeake's CEO has the 3rd highest compensation of any CEO in the USA!
HEY CHESSER: You see what the populace is reading about here on a daily basis and you think their opposition to this fracking is caused by rich eastern seaboard liberals?
Man, you couldn't have misidentified your opposition worse than you have! This is a democratic movement primarily affecting non-Rino Republicans and Reagan Democrats and it is going to cause the Republicans big damage in PA in 2012.
Occam's Tool| 8.3.11 @ 9:01PM
Lots of wood fires in New Zealand used to heat homes. The air pollution in Rotorua could be something fierce at times.
POST American| 8.4.11 @ 4:50AM
----BTW
We've been hearing about solar power since
the 50's. Solar heating etc.
And still, in 2011, after all that time and funding
--we don't even have any kind of popular utility
use of the summer heat to take care of our hot water needs during the summer season.
Incredible.
POST American| 8.6.11 @ 12:05AM
--------------MUST SEE Summer TV--------------
'ENDGAME' doc on Google video
(esp. the second half)
'The Money Masters' William Still
Google videos
'ALEX JONES/ Freeman' 6 pt interview
Google videos
'The LONG History of EUGENICS'
ALAN WATT
Google Video
------------------HAVE A NICE SUMMER!