The American Spectator : A Nation Set Apart

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A Nation Set Apart

By Tom Bethell from the July/August 2011 issue

Hostility to Israel is widespread and rising.

A year ago, my mother, then nearly 98, went into an old folks’ home in England. One of the last things she told me was that she believed her family background was partly Jewish. Her grandmother’s maiden name was Dow, and the Dows earlier married into a Brazilian family of Jews named Da Costa. Not that I think of myself as Jewish. I was brought up as a Catholic and I try to practice that faith. But my mother’s comment about her family background stimulated many thoughts—about Israel.

In fact, I had been pondering them here, years earlier. See, for example, “The Blindfolded Synagogue” (TAS, February 1988). In response to this piece I received a letter from Michael Kinsley, saying, in a friendly way, that I was guilty of philo-Semitism and that was almost as bad as anti-Semitism. I still have his letter somewhere.

I was invited to Israel twice and I now have enough thoughts to fill a book. Maybe I should write it. My most fundamental thought is this: The rebirth of Israel, almost 2,000 years after the Jews were driven out by the Romans, has to be seen as a miraculous event. It gives a shape and meaning to history that it would otherwise lack. History is shown to be not so much a process as an unfolding drama, revealing the intervention of God.

This is clearer to us now than it was, say, in the Middle Ages, or at the time of Blaise Pascal (1623–1662). In his Pensées, Pascal wrote that the Jews are eminent “not solely by their antiquity,” but also by their duration. “For whereas the nations of Greece and of Italy, and others who came long after have long since perished, these ever remain; and in spite of the endeavors of many powerful kings who have a hundred times tried to destroy them.”

What would he have said if he had known that 300 years later, the Jews would return to Holy Land, where the attempts to destroy them continue?

Isaac Bashevis Singer told an interviewer that “It has never before happened that a nation has been exiled and then come back and formed a country. And this, with the return of Hebrew, the rebirth of the language, proves that the Almighty still has a purpose for the Jewish people.”

The Catholic inclination has been to believe that the Jews, although chosen by God, were superseded when they rejected Christ. But the restoration of Israel in 1948 suggests a more complex picture. Saint Paul reflects on these matters in his Epistle to the Romans. The Jews had stumbled at the stumbling block, and by their fall “salvation is come unto the Gentiles.” But a remnant remains, “according to the election of grace.” Many Jews had been “blinded,” but God had not “cast away his people.”

“Blindfolded, the Synagogue still moves forward in the universe of God’s plans,” wrote Jacques Maritain in The Mystery of Israel (1937). “It is itself only gropingly aware of its path in history.” A Catholic (whose wife was Jewish), Maritain said that Israel—meaning the Jewish diaspora—has a “historic mission,” which he contrasted with the mission of Christianity.

“Whereas the Church is assigned the task of the supernatural and supra-temporal saving of the world, to Israel is assigned… the work of the earthly leavening of the world.” He compared Israel to “a living yeast mixed into the main body,” which “gives the world no quiet.” Isaac Singer compared the Jews to salt, which gives flavor but can also cause “high blood pressure.” Perhaps that is why the Lord “has set you apart from the nations,” as the book of Leviticus relates.

The Jews “stimulate the movement of history,” Maritain said, boldly adding that they are charged with “activating the history of the world.”

IN HIS BOOK The Israel Test, George Gilder disagrees with Dennis Prager and Joseph Telushkin’s Why the Jews? The Reason for Antisemitism. They attribute it to Jewish chosenness, and surely that is right. Gilder says more narrowly that anti-Semitism reflects the hatred toward middlemen, “entrepreneurs, shopkeepers, lenders, bankers, financiers and other capitalists.” He also attributes it to “Jewish superiority and excellence.” If the Jews really are the chosen race, then we might expect them to be on the whole excellent. So maybe Gilder’s disagreement with Prager and Telushkin is a distinction without a difference.

Gilder applauds the good sense of Benjamin Netanyahu and the (surprisingly recent) rise of capitalism in Israel. I agree, but for a different reason. He thinks that Israel and the U.S. need to be joined at the hip. My own belief is that Israel needs to be friends with but not dependent on the U.S. government, which takes the State Department view that a lack of Middle East peace is mostly Israel’s fault. A capitalist and therefore prosperous Israel will be less dependent on the U.S. and more likely to remain unmoved by American pressure. Arguably, Israel should politely refuse all U.S. aid.

Secular Jews are understandably discomfited by the idea of a “chosen race.” There could hardly be anything more at odds with the modern egalitarian ideal professed by so many intellectuals.

Hostility to Israel is widespread and rising, and it comes increasingly from Islam, and from the worldwide secular intelligentsia. Jewish intellectuals are among Israel’s foremost critics. Avraham Burg’s book The Holocaust Is Over: We Must Rise From Its Ashes might be considered anti-Semitic if it were not written by a former speaker of the Knesset. Noam Chomsky has compared Israel’s government to the Nazis and, lest there be any doubt, he sometimes wears a Hezbollah cap. Criticism of Israel “is one of the most popular issues on campus now,” he reports. New Yorker editor David Remnick shows increasing hostility to the Jewish state.

The problem may be this: Modern Israel started life as a socialist enterprise. Ben-Gurion tolerated orthodox Jews, but it was assumed that they would die out. Today, the influence of the Haredim, or ultra-orthodox Jews, is growing. One-third of Jewish babies are now born to them, while the secular Israelis have far fewer children; the older, socialistic Jews are fading away.

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About the Author

Tom Bethell is a senior editor of The American Spectator and author of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Science, The Noblest Triumph: Property and Prosperity Through the Ages, and most recently Questioning Einstein: Is Relativity Necessary? (2009).

Letter to the Editor View all comments (278) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Timothy L. Pennell| 7.28.11 @ 6:47AM

So. The "Rebirth of the Jewish State, 2,000 years after the Jews were driven out by the Romans has to be seen as a miraculous event"?
I've got one.
A young Mulatto boy, born on a remote island, in the Pacific, to an Atheist/Communist Mother, and a Muslim/Marxist Father, who is moved to Muslim Indonesia, to be raised in the Mosques and Muslim Schools til the age of 11, sitting on the Throne of the most Powerful Christian Nation on Earth, and ISRAEL'S only HOPE of survival?
Add in the FACT that this Muslim Boy was helped to the Throne, with Millions of Dollars from a Billionaire Anti-Jew, who helped the NAZIS, in their Extermination Effort of his fellow Jews. And, now says, that: "This was the best time of my life".
Is that miraculous?
Now, add in the FACT, that a Muslim Terrorist Group, sworn to the Destruction of all the Jews - HAMAS - believes that this Mulatto Boy is their DELIVERER. Sent by ALLAH, to LEAD THEM against the Jews. They sell Drinking Mugs with HIS PICTURE on them, and have even given him the name: ABU HUSSAIN. You can buy them on their Official Web Site.
Miraculous?
He does NOTHING, as IRAN gets ever closer to a Nuclear bomb.
NOTHING, as Assad, in Syria, slaughters the people in the streets.
NOTHING, as our Arab Allies fall, one by one, to Islamic Radicals, such as The Muslim Brotherhood.
He sets up Gaddafi as a Straw Dog, a DISTRACION, as the CLOCK TICKS. All the while, doing Al Qaida's job for them, by handing over LIBYA, to them.
Is THAT miraculous?
What about the FACT, that he now wants to "Sell" hundreds of our Front Line BATTLE TANKS - The ABRAMS M1A1 - to the MOB in Egypt? The MOB whose 1st utterances, after the fall of Mubarak, was to urge WAR WITH THE JEWS.
Am I really the only one GETTING ALL THIS?

canuckistani| 7.28.11 @ 10:16AM

Earth to Pennell: W holding hands with King Fat Bastard Bin Saud are all the visuals we need about America's true interests.

Israel has some choices to make. We're all hoping they make the right one and realize their allies are losing interest in their intransigence. Bibi is no blessing, and the smart people in the administration know it.

Egypt is older than Israel, it wil have its ups and downs, but will survive. Israel, being a new country, still has to go through the requisite soul-searching as the founding class dies off. We had our civil war, England had Cromwell and Russia had Gorbachev. Who will be Israel's? It won't be Bibi or his Russian expats.

Louis Jenkins| 7.28.11 @ 11:18AM

Well you are correct to a certain degree. But who supposedly built the pyramids?

Frekki| 7.28.11 @ 3:13PM

Aryans.

Libs: sarcam again.

Frekki| 7.28.11 @ 3:14PM

sarcasm,
darn fingers.

Alan Brooks| 7.29.11 @ 8:54PM

it's your little brain, not your little fingers.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 12:39PM

Well, Timothy,
The Bible says that the Anti-Christ will be revealed. He calls him "the man of lawlessness.. Those who belong to Jesus have no need to worry about anything. In fact as Proverbs 31 says, I will laugh at the times to come.

Anyone can rest assured in the Word of God if they choose to. He has made sure that those who belong to Him will be informed, when they need to be. he truly is the Rock to Whom we can cling.

Here's what He says concerning the time of His second coming, and of the "Man of Lawlessness:

"Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of Lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition,
who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you this?
And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
And then the Lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of His Mouth and destroy him by His appearing and His coming.
The coming of the Lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." 2 Thess. 2:3-12.

We don't know who the Anti-Christ is yet because God hasn't revealed who it is.
Sure, Obama fits the bill but so do many others. Also~ consider seriously~ who "sets themselves up as God?" Who does this?
There is one Religion that I know of and a haughty man of that Religion who does this.
But God says He will reveal him. In His time. Then we will know who it is.

Timothy L. Pennell| 7.29.11 @ 7:48AM

"And I saw the BEAST rise from the Sea. And he was given a MOUTH, to speak Haughty and Blasphemous words. And he was allowed to exercise authority for forty two months." Revelation 13-5.
Does that sound like ANYONE we know?
As far as the Anti-Christ goes?
I'm thinking.....Someone with GREAT WEALTH, who can provide the Financial MEANS, to push his Destructive Policies, onto the people. Someone who spreads his wealth around to Special Interest Groups. Groups controlling Media. Groups who will EAGERLY, take to the streets, to cause CHAOS, and ANARCHY, at he behest of their Mysterious Benefactor.
Perhaps he will be a BILLIONARE? Maybe, someone who HELPED in an ATROCITY of Biblical proportions.
Perhaps a JEW, who traded HIS LIFE, for the lives of MILLIONS of GOD'S Chosen People? And, in later years, when asked about that time in his life? That time when he worked with the NAZIS, as they sought to EXTERMINATE THE JEWS, he proclaimed: "That was the BEST TIME OF MY LIFE".
Do we KNOW anyone like that?

Margie| 7.29.11 @ 2:20PM

Well, God states that this man of lawlessness will perform "pretended signs and wonders"~ so He has given us that to know.

So far, Obama hasn't done that!
And Hitler never did that.
There is a false Religion who "pretends" concerning miracles, though.
And we both know who it is, don't we?
So, the truth is, we don't yet know who he is~ if God says He is going to reveal who it is~ then He will, and we will all know who it is when He reveals him.

Occam's Tool| 7.31.11 @ 11:24PM

7/31/11 Murders from the Religion of Paul, er, I mean Peace, yeah, that's the ticket...

List of Islamic Terror Attacks For the Past 2 Months

Date Country City Killed Injured Description
2011.07.31 Afghanistan Lashkar Gah 13 12 A child is among those killed in a suicide car bomb attack claimed by Sunni radicals.
2011.07.31 China Kashgar 7 22 Muslim radicals hijack a truck and ram it into a crowd of Han (non-Muslims), then begin a stabbing spree that leaves seven dead.
2011.07.31 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A juice trader is shot to death at a market by Islamic terrorists.

Occam's Tool| 7.31.11 @ 11:24PM

It was taken from a list of 2 months of murders, but is actually JUST TODAY's list of murders from those Paul Defends AGAINST Israel.

Poppy| 7.29.11 @ 11:31AM

The Pope!

Mary Mayes | 7.28.11 @ 2:40PM

No, you are not the only one getting this - Glenn Beck has outlined every bit of this relentlessly to his millions of listeners. Maybe you should tune him in on the radio, or better yet, join him in Jerusalem on August 24th.

Occam's Tool| 7.28.11 @ 3:14PM

No, Tim. I'm right with you on this one (and on most all things).

Alan Brooks| 7.28.11 @ 7:36PM

PENNELL IS A CONSPIRACY-CRANK

Timothy L. Pennell| 7.29.11 @ 7:55AM

I agree. Alan Brooks is right. he's always right. I especially like his BRILLIANCE, when he explains to us "HOBBOTTS" how wonderful life is, with HAMAS' Deliverer running the Country. I like when he tells us that DEFICITS are GOOD, when there's a "D" next to the President's name. In fact....We're not spending ENOUGH!
And, if the RIGHT would just get out of the way, and let the Muslim Boy, who's never had a job IN HIS LIFE, continue to spend us in to 3rd World Status, everything will be fine.
You don't agree?
You're RACIST.

Alan Brooks| 7.29.11 @ 8:56PM

I am Julius Streicher.

Quartermaster| 7.29.11 @ 10:50PM

Or a reasonable facsimile of same.

Darin| 7.28.11 @ 6:55AM

The hatred of Israel boggles the mind. The nation is small, roughly the size of New Jersey. It does not sit on any large or vital deposits of natural resources. The population is relatively small. They are decent, honorable people. You have to go back to the time of King David to see Israel conquer anyone. Yet the hatred is there. Why? It’s because they are God’s chosen people. God chose Abram (later Abraham) and Isaac. One of Isaacs sons, Jacob, had his name changed to Israel, and through him the nation was born. Yet the world hates the nation of Israel. Is it simple envy that they are God’s chosen people? I don’t think so, because human envy is not as vile and destructive. It’s the manifestation of the conflict between God and Satan. God chose Israel by His own words. Satan is in opposition to God. So how a country stands in its treatment of Israel acts as a litmus test as to which side of this conflict they tend to favor.

Appleby| 7.28.11 @ 7:13AM

I agree. The reason that mankind cannot solve *the problem of Israel and the Jews* is that this war is being fought by proxy.

These are the End Times. The Abomination of Desolation is sitting in the Holy Place: the Dome of the Rock is sitting on the Temple Mount. What more do you need to convince you? Hordes of atheists, so-called, running in terror from depictions of the Cross of Christ, because they are beginning to know what it actually represents? Who do you think is telling them this?

Its all right there in plain sight. Its getting late. Get your house in order.

Appleby| 7.28.11 @ 7:13AM

I agree. The reason that mankind cannot solve *the problem of Israel and the Jews* is that this war is being fought by proxy.

Its all right there in plain sight. Its getting late. Get your house in order.

Timothy L. Pennell| 7.28.11 @ 7:58AM

"And I saw the BEAST rise from the sea. And he was given a MOUTH to speak Haughty and Blasphemous words. And he was allowed to exercise authority for forty two months." Revelation 13-5.
Now, WHO do we KNOW, who fits that description?

canuckistani| 7.28.11 @ 10:17AM

SCM| 7.28.11 @ 12:51PM

Gee, I thought W had authority for 96 months?
I don't claim to be a prophet, but we might want to watch out for July 2012.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 1:03PM

LOL.
Besides, GW loves the Lord Jesus Christ, and that is clear.

canuckistani| 7.28.11 @ 1:59PM

JC was in favor of agressive war? Increasing the misery of his people? Enriching the few over the many?

Wake up, you've been bamboozled.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 8:09PM

If you really want to know the truth, Canuck, read the Bible.

Just a tidbit, though: God gave the earth to man to live on, and doesn't have puppets.

We're the ones causing all the problems, not Him.
If there was no Sin, there wouldn't BE wars, but we are fallen from what God originally intended.

But those who listen to Him have real peace.. and know what to do, and whether it's right or wrong.

.."For God is not a God of confusion but of peace." 1 Cor. 14:33.

Are you confused? If you are, here's a prescription for you. It's not from me, but from Him. I got the same one, and it works:

"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
or my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Mt. 11:28-30.

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not rely on your own insight.
In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make straight your paths." Prov. 3:5 & 6.

Look at that~ God says we shouldn't rely on our own insight! And hasn't that been proven out by the condition the world is in?
I marvel that every Word of God always proves true. Thus one of my most favorite Scriptures:

"Every Word of God proves true; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him." Pro. 30:5.

He wants to be your Shield too, Canuck.

BTW Cannuck, I actually come from a very long line of Cannucks myself. Canadian French on both sides.

Timothy L. Pennell| 7.29.11 @ 7:59AM

I think he means - Jimmy Carter - when he writes JC.
Remember. He's a Jack*ss.

Margie| 7.29.11 @ 2:24PM

Timothy,

He's rebelling against His God right now. He knows he must quit.

"And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor. 6:11.

I am a rebel to the core, but saved by the Grace of God. Now, I'm a rebel for Him and that's why I can love rebels. :^).

W| 7.28.11 @ 4:57PM

Hey watch it

Citizen Jerry| 7.28.11 @ 9:46PM

Sorry, but the statute of limitations on blaming George Bush ran out long ago.

Ken (Old Texican)| 7.28.11 @ 8:29AM

Appleby,
I agree.....and my house is in order. My Bible speaks of we christians as "adopted" children of Israel. In that sense I suppose I'm an "Israel Firster".
The Clints of the world will never get it, but that's OK. As Jesus pointed out, "the poor will always be wiith us" (paraphrasing). Well, "poor in generosity" will always be there as well, evidently.

I'm happy to do my little bit to help the Israelis survive. We Texans remember the Alamo.

Clint| 7.28.11 @ 9:15AM

We Tea Party Patriots Get It.

Dr.Ron Paul,
"I am not the only one who can see the absurdities of our foreign
policy. We give $3 billion to Israel and $12 billion to her enemies.
Most Americans know that makes no sense."

We American Patriots Remember The U.S.S. Liberty.

loulou| 7.28.11 @ 11:15AM

Israel does not need the $3 billion most of which goes back to the US anyhow through military purchases. Once Israel is not hobbled by the US and the Arabist State Department she can be free to conduct her business as she sees fit. That may mean "disproportionate responses" to terrorist attacks. Oh well.

There is probably more brainpower in the tiny state of Israel than any place in the world. This is where medical, technological, agricultural, engineering breakthroughs originate. This fact sticks in the craw of the anti-Semites.

Why the hell are you fixated on the USS Liberty? You sound like Pat Buchanan. Are you aware that that makes you seem like a mental case?
9-11 doesn't bother you??

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 12:25PM

I'd say he's worse than a mental case, he's a predator.

Clint| 7.28.11 @ 7:25PM

Get Bent Joisey Pig

Occam's Tool| 7.28.11 @ 3:16PM

Loulou, you are one (in the nicest and most admiring way). Thank you.

Clint| 7.28.11 @ 7:15PM

Talk to The Men of The Liberty,who are trying to get a Congressional Hearing about the deliberate IDF attack on Our U.S. Naval Ship, which killed 34 of their brother American Seamen & wounded another 170.

If you gotta ask, you're an Israel Firster Traitor Bastard.

loulou| 7.28.11 @ 7:49PM

Don't be so bitter.
Your affliction and deficiencies have nothing to do with Israel.

And watch the potty mouth.

Occam's Tool| 7.28.11 @ 3:15PM

Yes, and the current PM of Israel was in his early teens when the Liberty was attacked. Should I be remembering the St Louis?

Clint| 7.28.11 @ 7:24PM

American Patriots Remember & Support Our U.S.S. Liberty Seamen and their quest for a Congressional Hearing .

Only A Fanatic Screwball Israel Firster, Neo-Chickenhawk Coward Traitor Bastard Like You, Tool Job, Would Even Ask That Question.

loulou| 7.28.11 @ 7:51PM

It doesn't take much to send you off half-cocked. Heh, heh, heh...

RCV| 7.28.11 @ 11:52PM

Remember the Maine, Clint!

Timothy L. Pennell| 7.29.11 @ 8:01AM

"Should I be remembering the St Louis?"
Touche!

Occam's Tool| 7.31.11 @ 11:27PM

Thanks. The US got reparation payments and the Captain won the MOH. The Jews on the St Louis could have easily been saved by FDR, but were sent back to die, as Tim would do to today's Jews. By the way, Enosh, you aren't a giant 6 foot rabbit, are you?

C Smith| 7.28.11 @ 9:57AM

Now the LORD had said unto Abram … I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee (Genesis 12:1-3).

And his father Isaac said unto him [Jacob], Come near now, and kiss me, my son. … Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren, and let thy mother’s sons bow down to thee: cursed be every one that curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee. (Genesis 27:26-29).

How goodly are thy tents, O Jacob, and thy tabernacles, O Israel. … Blessed is he that blesseth thee, and cursed is he that curseth thee (Numbers 24:5-9).

canuckistani| 7.28.11 @ 10:19AM

...and every other odic book attempting to justify a tribal hegemony.

get real.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 12:10PM

Get smart. Get saved.

PolishKnight| 7.28.11 @ 9:46AM

Darin, it's hard to discuss the roots of anti-semitism because anyone in the states who observes anything other than it's because the Jews are smart and well educated or intolerant Islam are automatically labeled as anti-Semites themselves and dismissed. And that's part of the problem. I type this very comment with trepidation. When people are frightened to criticize, they automatically assume that something is wrong.

In addition, while American Jews can comfortably hide behind the holocaust and accuse any critics of being like Nazis, they overwhelmingly belong to the Democrat/leftist party that routinely dehumanizes white Christian males. This has left a demographic and political vacuum for Islamic immigrants to fill.

It's both ironic, and inevitable, that Steven Speilberg belongs to the same party as anti-Islamic radicals.

And they're supposed to be so smart and superior...

Next, there's Israel itself. Nothing against them, but imagine, say, if the USA had been sending massive foreign aid to South Korea while simultaneously having a large population of wealthy, influential Korean-Americans. Then imagine if South Korea decided to engage in a military operation and shot up a US listening ship and then pretended like it was an accident and the military helped to cover it up. Would that endear many Americans (or Europeans) to love South Korea?

All of this is food for thought and as I said, I may wind up getting labeled as an anti-semite myself for stating the obvious.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 12:12PM

"In addition, while American Jews can comfortably hide behind the holocaust and accuse any critics of being like Nazis, they overwhelmingly belong to the Democrat/leftist party that routinely dehumanizes white Christian males. This has left a demographic and political vacuum for Islamic immigrants to fill."

Way to paint with a broad brush.

PolishKnight| 7.28.11 @ 1:10PM

It's my specialty! :-)

Occam's Tool| 7.28.11 @ 3:18PM

South Korea has a prosperous society of Koreans in the US, and recently some Korean protestors beat the crap out our troops who defend them. On purpose. With their fists.

1967 was a while ago. The current party is NOT the one in charge then.

RCV| 7.28.11 @ 6:14PM

Polish Knight: There are few countries in the world where anti-semitism has been more virulent and violent than your heritage country. So it's hardly surprising that it was pounded into to growing up. Some people overcome the prejudices of their youth; others simply never grow up.

Joe| 7.28.11 @ 6:39PM

A typical condescending Liberal.

loulou| 7.28.11 @ 7:58PM

Good point, RCV. The Poles out Hitlered Hitler. Apparently the Poles still hate the Jews even though they succeeded in making Poland Judenrein.

I'm sure the Poles have contributed a lot to literature, music, science, Western civilization, etc. but I can't think of anything at the moment. Oh, they do paint this garish china. I wouldn't eat off it since it is from Poland and undoubtably is full of lead. Hmmm... I wonder if that explains--never mind.

RCV| 7.28.11 @ 11:56PM

Oh there are many great Poles in history, from Copernicus down to John Paul II. But there's no denying the Nast anti-semetic history. More Polish Jews were lost in the Holocaust, with much help from the locals. Polish Knight is proof that the tradition lives on.

PolishKnight| 7.29.11 @ 9:53AM

As it turns out, thousands of Poles risked their lives to hide Jews during the holocaust.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R....._Holocaust
"Throughout the German occupation of Poland, many Polish Gentiles risked their own lives - and the lives of their families - to rescue Jews from the Nazis. Grouped by nationality, Poles represent the biggest number of people who rescued Jews during the Holocaust.[1][2] To date, 6,135 Poles have been awarded the title of Righteous among the Nations by the State of Israel – more than any other nation.[1]"

Indeed, the jab at my ancestry reflects a historical racist hostility towards Poles in the states (although, sadly, Poles tend to vote Democrat in Chicago and Baltimore. I guess that makes them pretty stupid. But they are wising up.)

Regarding contribution to science and western civilization, take a look at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_(cryptography)
"German military Enigma was first broken in December 1932 by the Polish Cipher Bureau, using a combination of brilliant mathematics, the services of a spy in the German office responsible for administering encrypted communications,[7] and a slice of good luck.[8] Thereafter the Poles read Enigma to the outbreak of World War II and beyond, in France.[9] However, at the turn of 1939 the Germans made their systems ten times more complicated, which required a tenfold increase in the Poles' decryption equipment, a need that they could not meet.[10] On 25 July 1939, just five weeks before the outbreak of World War II, the Polish Cipher Bureau handed reconstructed Enigma machines and their techniques for decrypting ciphers to their French and British allies.[11]"

"Many observers, at the time and later, regarded Ultra as immensely valuable to the Allies. Winston Churchill told King George VI: "It was thanks to Ultra that we won the war."

In addition, during the cold war, Poland led protests against the USSR back when Stalin had protestors shot right up to the end of the cold war.

Compare and contrast to Christian white males in the states who show up by the millions for anti-abortion protests but can't seem to figure out that open racist and sexist discrimination against them is destroying the heterosexual family and western culture.

Finally, regarding the china: You don't eat off of it, dummkopf. You put it up on the wall or above the stove. Don't you watch antiques roadshow?

W| 7.29.11 @ 11:35AM

The Poles were at the front lines, literally, to defeat the Soviet Union by their trade union Solidarity, and John Paul II; and defeating the Nazis at the battle of Monte Cassino, when the Polish soldiers took the hill at suicidal human costs.

Poppy| 7.29.11 @ 11:39AM

Jan Sobieski III I apologize if I spelled his name wrong. He commanded the army which came to the rescue of Vienna. Pretty cool Pol

RCV| 7.29.11 @ 2:03PM

There were a great many Poles who were Righteous, Polish Knight.

But you're not one of them.

PolishKnight| 7.29.11 @ 2:40PM

RCV, that sounds like a wimper. Are you dropping the claim that Poles gave "much help" to the holocaust? (Keep in mind that George Soros, a Jew, gave "much help" as well.)

As I said, you helped prove my point that constructive dialogue about the roots of anti-semitism is difficult because of loose charges of anti-semitism while you simultaneously engaged in a racist slur against Poles without realizing the irony of both. Good going!

Your wording is also self-damaging: "There were a many great Poles". It sounds like a half-hearted concession that Poles aren't _all_ bad.

Occam's Tool| 7.31.11 @ 11:27PM

Your wording does come very close to antisemitism, PK. Sad.

PolishKnight| 8.2.11 @ 4:06PM

Occam, I doubt you're reading this anymore (I decided to check in as an afterthought).

Any criticism of Jews, individual or collective, or Israel come "close" to anti-semitism. There clearly is also a lot of bigotry directed against Poles as well. In addition, are Jews perfect? Is it anti-semitism to observe that perhaps Jews also acted badly and unfairly against others including the Poles? Well, sure. But it's also probably true.

If there's a climate where the anti-semite slur will be tossed out at a moment's notice then that discourages any kind of rational debate or discussion. Very well.

PolishKnight| 7.29.11 @ 2:57PM

RCV, suggested reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T....._in_Poland

"Many Jews, persecuted by the Nazis, received help from the Poles; help, ranging from major acts of heroism, to minor acts of kindness involving hundreds of thousands of helpers acting often anonymously. The occurrence of such rescue effort is "one of the most remarkable features of Polish-Jewish relations during the Holocaust,"[56][57] because ethnic Poles themselves were the subject to capital punishment at the hands of the German Nazi occupier if found offering any kind of help to a person of Jewish faith or origin.[55]"

and

"The Polish Government in Exile was the first (in November 1942)[66] to reveal the existence of Nazi-run concentration camps and the systematic extermination of the Jews by the Germans, reported by its courier Jan Karski and the activities of Witold Pilecki, a member of Armia Krajowa who volunteered to be imprisoned in Auschwitz in order to organize a resistance movement inside the camp itself. In September 1942 the Provisional Committee for Aid to Jews (Tymczasowy Komitet Pomocy Żydom) was founded with assistance from the Underground State and on the initiative of Zofia Kossak-Szczucka. This body later became the Council for Aid to Jews (Rada Pomocy Żydom), known by the code-name Żegota. It is not known how many Jews were helped by Żegota, but at one point in 1943 it had 2,500 Jewish children under its care in Warsaw alone. Żegota was granted nearly 29 million zlotys (over $ 5 million dollars) since 1942 for the relief payments to thousands of extended Jewish families in Poland.[67] The government in exile also provided special assistance – funds, arms and other supplies – to Jewish resistance organizations (like ŻOB and ŻZW).[68] Poland was occupied by the Nazis from 1939 to 1945 and no Polish collaboration government was ever formed during that period. The Polish underground resistance, the Armia Krajowa (Home Army, AK) and the Communist People's Army (AL) opposed collaboration in German anti-Jewish persecution, and punished it by death."

So not only did Poles not HELP the Nazis in this matter, they put their lives at risk from the top leadership to anonymous people who often gave their lives to save Jews.

And you accuse Poles of "helping" the holocaust?

RCV| 7.29.11 @ 4:07PM

Recommended reading rom today's newswires:

Book on Polish anti-Semitism sparks fury

By Ryan Lucas, Associated Press Writer
KIELCE, Poland — The newly released Polish edition of a book by a Princeton University professor has dredged up painful memories here, forcing the country to confront a difficult chapter in its history: the deaths of Jews at the hands of Poles in the aftermath of World War II.
Jan T. Gross' "Fear: Anti-Semitism in Poland After Auschwitz" hit bookstores in Poland earlier this month, and has sparked a debate about anti-Semitism in this Eastern European country, which saw its Jewish population -- once Europe's largest -- nearly wiped out in the Holocaust.

The book was first released in the United States in 2006, where it was greeted with warm reviews. In Poland, however, the book has been sharply criticized in newspaper editorials and reviews and by historians accusing Gross of using inflammatory language and unfairly labeling all of postwar Polish society as anti-Semitic.

This week, Gross has headlined a pair of debates in front of news cameras and standing room only crowds in Kielce and Warsaw, underscoring how he has struck a nerve in Poland with "Fear." The discussion Monday in Kielce was broadcast live on national television.

Gross, who was born in Poland to a Jewish father and a gentile mother, left the country in 1968 during a wave of anti-Semitism sponsored by Poland's then-communist regime. He has said he wrote "Fear" as a Pole.

"I would like for my book to show people what an incredibly strong toxic poison anti-Semitism is in the general psychology of Poles, because it made us incapable of withstanding temptation," Gross told a crowd of some 250 people who crammed into a cultural center in Kielce, a town of 200,000 inhabitants, some 110 miles south of Warsaw.

Gross' previous book, "Neighbors," also caused a sensation in Poland when it was published in 2001. That book told the story of Poles who burned their Jewish neighbors alive in a barn in northeastern Poland in July 1941, and spurred a lively national debate on Poland's relations with Jews.

In "Fear," Gross describes how many Jews who survived the Holocaust returned to their prewar homes only to face further persecution.

He argues that Polish postwar anti-Semitism was driven by guilt over collusion with the Nazi plunder and murder of Jews during the Holocaust, which largely played out in Nazi-run death camps in occupied Poland.

By the way, Polish Knight, I have Polish relatives in my family, all of whom acknowledge the shame of Polish antisemitism, and who would recognize you for what you are: a viscious anti-semite.

PolishKnight| 7.29.11 @ 4:29PM

You cite (that doesn't include a URL) does not dispute my point that the Polish wartime government not only helped Jews with personal and financial aid, but also severely punished collaborators.

Out of thousands of incidents of Poles putting their lives on the line to save Jews, you have come up with a single cite about a burned barn and collaborators in death camps (collaborators that included the Jews themselves.)

Finally, as I keep observing, your knee jerk accusation of anti-semitism proves my point that such a climate of political fear by such accusers helps to raise suspicions in and of themselves. Javol! You are right and those who disagree with you are nazi bigots. Thank heavens for you protecting freedom!

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:25PM

There are only 10,000 Jews left in Poland out of the 3 million before WWII. Polish antisemitism in the 2000s:

Here's the link from Tel-Aviv University: http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semi.....oland.htm.

The Poles did lead the Battle against the Communists, along with the Americans and Israelis.

PolishKnight| 7.29.11 @ 4:38PM

It's nice to go to the cite (at least the book) on amazon.com to get a balanced story.

Anti-semitism rose in Poland AFTER WWII or during the Soviet advance partly because of Jewish collusion with the Soviets who were mass murdering Poles.

RCV| 7.29.11 @ 5:42PM

That's always the claim of anti-semites: it was the Jews' own fault.

PolishKnight| 7.29.11 @ 6:06PM

No, RCV. Something more disturbing:

When Jews were not helping Poles and even collaborating in mass murder with the Soviets, it appears to be the Poles' own faults.

And it's anti-semitic to say so.

In addition, the Israelis are the ones who say that the Poles went to extraordinary lengths to help them and this is the thanks they get: A Jewish professor writing a book slandering Poles and Catholics (and even individual Catholics and Poles) who reached out to help them in the interests of gaining more sympathy for Jews.

Yeah, that's a great way to discourage anti-semitism. Kind of like shooting up your allies' ships...

Occam's Tool| 7.31.11 @ 11:35PM

And a list of over 6,000 in Yad Vashem. There's such a thing as freedom of speech in Israel, too. For example, your asshat views don't represent the views of the 6000 righteous. And if it had been you, you would have pointed out the Jew in the cellar. As Clint would say, Get Bent, PK.

Occam's Tool| 7.31.11 @ 11:29PM

Blow me. It was going on for centuries before that, PK. The concept of a Pogram escapes you.

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:20PM

The Poles bounced both ways, PK. But to be a Pole was the second worst thing to be in WWII.

And, you know, the Liberty thing was lead by the same asshole who missed Osirak. Good at shooting down MiGs, not at much else. Yes, it was a tragedy that the Liberty was attacked. The Captain won the MOH. But it is NOT the defining moment of the American Israeli relationship, any more than the US selling AWACs to the Saudis is. Again, the current prime Minister of Israel was a teenager when this happened, and his party was NOT in control at that time.

PolishKnight| 7.29.11 @ 9:59PM

"The Poles bounced both ways, PK."

I hate arguments of equivalence but very well, if the Poles weren't perfect, then neither were the Israelis. The Poles apologized for what happened during the war. When will Israel get around to dealing with their atrocities?

Occam's Tool| 7.31.11 @ 11:32PM

Beam and mote. The Israelis did apologize about the USS Liberty and paid reparations.

The Poles had the highest percentage of their Jewish population killed in WWII. And Poles had a NOTORIOUS history of antisemitism going back centuries. And then there's you, a guy who knows that the Israelis are our critical partners against Sharia, who can't help take potshots. You're sounding like that asshat Clint, PK, and you used to be so sane.

PolishKnight| 8.2.11 @ 3:58PM

I didn't see anything about an apology or reparations on the wikipedia website. In any case, by apology, do you mean one where they don't accept FULL responsibility and claim it was an accident?

I don't deny that there is strong anti-semitism in Poland and will even add that a lot of it is not only offensive, but rediculous. That said, there also is strong anti-Catholic, anti-Polish sentiment by many Jews including this Jan fellow.

As I said at the beginning of this discussion, if there is no rational way to discuss anti-semitism or even criticize Jews simply on a political basis that all other groups and nations have to accept, then anti-semitism will always exist since, by definition, anyone who doesn't totally agree with Jews will be an anti-semite.

Joe| 7.29.11 @ 1:42PM

Someone named loulou should refrain from Polish jokes, or have the courage to say it directly.

PolishKnight| 7.29.11 @ 9:34AM

As predicted... Like a knee jerk, it will happen even if you tell the patient beforehand.

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 9:22PM

Oh, here's the Franklin connection with the Philly synagogue:

Congregation Mikveh IsraelFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search

A former home of the Mikveh Israel Synagogue, PhiladelphiaCongregation Mikveh Israel, Mikveh Israel synagogue, officially called Kahal Kadosh Mikveh Israel (Hebrew: קהל קדוש מקוה ישראל‎, which translates as "Holy Community of the Hope of Israel) is a synagogue located in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and was founded in the 1740s.[1] It is one of the Oldest synagogues in the United States. Currently home to a Sephardic community originally established by Spanish and Portuguese Jews, the congregation continues to practice according to the Spanish and Portuguese Sephardic rite.

The oldest formal Jewish congregation in Philadelphia, Mikveh Israel counted among its members prominent revolutionary patriots, such as Jonas Phillips, Haym Solomon and the illustrious Gratz family. The gracious Rebecca Gratz, who founded and managed philanthropic and educational institutions devoted to the needs of women and children, Jewish and Gentile, and who is reputed to be the model for Rebecca of York, heroine of Ivanhoe by Sir Walter Scott, was also a congregant.

Contents [hide]
1 Early history
2 Leaders
3 Buildings
4 Relationship with Christ Church
5 Further reading
6 References
7 See also
8 External links

[edit] Early historyThe congregation dedicated its first building in 1782. It is estimated that in 1775, the city of Philadelphia had a population of approximately 35,000 of whom 300 were Jewish.[2] Benjamin Franklin was an earlier contributor to its building fund.

[edit] LeadersIn 1829, the preeminent Isaac Leeser became the leader of the synagogue and held that position until 1850. Another prominent hazzan, Sabato Morais, took over after Leeser. Morais was minister for forty-six years and an outspoken opponent of slavery prior to and during the Civil War. Dr. Abraham Neuman was rabbi from 1927 to 1943.[3] Dr. Neuman was succeeded by David Jessurun Cardozo.[4] The current incumbent is Rabbi Albert E. Gabbai who was elected in 1988.

[edit] BuildingsThe congregation that became Mikveh Israel first gathered for services at a private home on Stirling Alley which was then between Cherry and Race Streets and Third and Fourth Streets in Philadelphia.[5] In September 1782, the congregation dedicated a new building on Cherry Street near Third Street. The building sat 200 persons and had accommodations for the clergy adjoining it.[6]

In 1829 the congregation built an Egyptian Revival synagogue on Cherry Street. Designed by William Strickland it is notable for having been one of the earliest Egyptian Revival buildings in the United States.[7]

The Congregation announced in 1961 that it would return to Center City where it would construct a new building.[8] Dr. Bernard J. Alpers, vice-president of the synagogue, persuaded his friend the Philadelphia architect Louis Kahn to engage in the planning of the new synagogue building. Kahn produced ten design versions between 1961 and 1972 of the new building.[9] However, the Congregation decided that construction and maintenance costs were too high, and the synagogue was never built. A more modest building, shared with the Museum of Jewish History, was dedicated and opened in August 1976.[10] The museum moved to a new building at 5th and Market streets on November 15, 2010.[11] The synagogue is located at 44 North Fourth Street in Center City, Philadelphia, just north of Market Street.[12]

The congregation is also responsible for Mikveh Israel Cemetery, the second oldest surviving Jewish cemetery in the United States.

And here's the synagogue phone number: (215) 922-5446. Ask them yourself about Franklin.

By the way, the USA was NOT sending massive foreign aid to Israel in 1967. What country were the planes the Israelis used to knock out the Egyptian Air Force made in?

W| 7.29.11 @ 10:36PM

France?

Occam's Tool| 7.31.11 @ 11:36PM

Yup. US aid din't start to be significant until the 70s. France was actually a better ally until the 6 day war.

canuckistani| 7.28.11 @ 10:34AM

God's chosen people? According to whom? Them? Which ones: orthos, reformed, guilty liberals?
I thought Christ's death and resurrection made us all God's chosen people? and those who pick up their cross and follow Him are truly saved.
Am I on drugs?

Their failure to recognize Jesus as the Messiah is not inspired, but a blatent refusal to accept the Truth. Even Muslims, yes those ones, hold Jesus and Mary and even John the Baptist in high regard in their own mystical guide book to everything. Jews, not so much.

I am astonished true Christians on here continue to believe in the fallacy of mystical exception for the Israelites.

Most mysticism is either bogus and/or dangerous, but to imbue our foreign policies based on these facts is scary. We have devoted enormous political and real capital in this region with zero net benefit to the country. It is time we start calculating our invenstments on real returns versus faux mystical ones.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 12:16PM

If you really and truly want an explanation by God, then you MUST read Roman 11.
God bless.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 12:16PM

s/b Romans 11.

John of Indonesia| 7.28.11 @ 12:24PM

@canuckistani, you wrote: Even Muslims, yes those ones, hold Jesus and Mary and even John the Baptist in high regard in their own mystical guide book to everything....

If muslims held Nabi Isa(The Prophet Jesus), and Maria(Mary) and Nabi Yahya(The Prophet John) in high regard why they keep attacking christians and burning churches in Muslim majority countries like Indonesia, Egypt, Pakistan etc.? Islam version of Jesus not like you think so, their Isa is a Muslim! they never think of Isa as a Christian or Jew, do you know that? Muslims said Adam speak arabic therefore he is an Arab, and Abraham too!, and they said that Jews are descendant of Satan! if you believe all the things muslims told you without clarifying it yourself you are naive.

According to Qur'an when Isa descent from heaven he will command all Christians to convert to Islam because since the beginning he already a muslim, those who do not convert will be beheaded, and that applies not only to Christians but to all non-muslims! that is their Jesus!. and btw I am an Indonesian(Chinese) who happen to believe in Jesus Christ, not Nabi Isa!

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 12:42PM

Greetings in Jesus, brother John!
Well spoken.

John of Indonesia| 7.28.11 @ 12:49PM

Heloo Margie, I just joined this site yesterday, i have read some of your post, I like it.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 12:50PM

Thank you!

canuckistani| 7.28.11 @ 2:05PM

So are Jews the chosen ones and their denial of Jesus as the one True Messiah is correct? Which is it?

We have Christians here that buy into the rapture nonsense and a fixed number of souls welcomed into heaven calculation as well.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 7:31PM

Read Romans 11 if you are really interested in what the only true Authority says concerning the issue~ otherwise you're just running around in circles!!

Atheist| 7.28.11 @ 8:38PM

Seriously, How do you know for sure that every word in the Bible is the word of God?

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 10:53PM

Atheist,

That's an excellent question, and I'm happy you asked it.

There's really only one answer, and that's because first, He personally revealed Himself to me, and through prayer began a relationship with God through Christ. That alone was enough for me, but as I read the Bible I was able to understand it, (because when God regenerates you from above as in Jn. 3:3), you are able to see spiritually, and your eyes and mind are opened.

"Jesus answered and said to him, Truly,
truly, I say to you, If one is not generated
from above, he is not able to see the kingdom
of God." Jn. 3:3.

"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." Jn 4:24.

I have found out that there is not one thing in the Bible that is not true, and that all of His promises are true personally.

"For all the promises of God find their Yes in Him. That is why we utter the Amen through Him, to the glory of God." 2 Cor. 1:20.

God promises that for anyone who seeks Him, He may be found, and I know this for a fact.

The Bible (God's own Words) tells us that the whole World is in darkness, and that we are lost because of Sin. We all have it~ and there is only one way to get rid of it, and that's to trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of our sins. Not in going to confession in a Religious way~ but according to the Bible, by going to Jesus directly, and asking Him to forgive you.

Once you do that, and ask Him for the Holy Spirit to come inside of you change your heart from a heart of stone into a heart of flesh, He will change you from the inside out.
It isn't anything to do with being Religious, and trying to be good. We can't "be good".
When God gives you His Spirit, He causes you to walk in His Ways, by the power of His Spirit.

He makes you a new creation in Christ. Suddenly, you have the desire to pray to Him, and you WANT to read the Bible, and you WANT to know Him more, and you WANT to talk about Him because you know Him.

Suddenly, your desire for sin becomes less and less and you actually begin hating sin. It's amazing because you know it isn't coming from you.
He puts that desire in you, to love Him and please Him. It's more than a miracle.

The things I wrote, above is why I know that every Word of God is true. Every promise He's made to me has proven true.
Though I have failed Him countless times, He has never failed Me.
And that's just on a personal level.

You can pick up a Bible, and find all kinds of prophecies that have come to pass. The prophecies in the Old Testament about Christ came true, and the O.T. was written hundreds of years before the New Testament.
For example, Psalm 23 prophecies about Jesus' crucifixion.
The Bible has hundreds of things about the Earth, the weather, the universe, etc. Things that scientists are still finding out today, that were there in the Bible all along.
For example~ did you know that the Bible talks about the fact that there are mountains under the sea?
Did you know that the reason for the melting of the snow in the Arctic is due t those volcanoes erupting under there?
The Bible is a marvel, and the God Who wrote it is indescribable in Glory and Honor and Wisdom and Might.
And you know what is the MOST amazing thing??
It's that He wants to have a relationship with you.
And all you have to do... is ask!!

I'll leave you with this, but feel free to ask any more questions, there are plenty of others here who are Chirstian that can answer you as well.

"His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us to His own glory and excellence, by which He has granted to us His precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the Divine Nature." 2 Pe. 1:3 & 4.

Atheist| 7.29.11 @ 9:46AM

Thank you for the reply. How did Jesus reveal himself to you? Was it gradual or at once? How did you know it was Jesus?

W| 7.28.11 @ 5:01PM

John, are you a Muslim, do you believe what you wrote about the Qur'an?

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 11:13PM

Apparently you cannot read.
He was explaining the view of Islam concerning how the see and describe Christ, but that it is THEIR sick view of him.
Come down off your anti-Christian high horse, and go back and actually read what he wrote.
get honest for once in your life.

W| 7.29.11 @ 12:24PM

You need to read it closely, he did not say the Christ, he said Jesus.

John of Indonesia| 7.29.11 @ 3:31AM

I think I have stated in my previous post that I believe in Jesus Christ not Nabi Isa, so I am a Christian. What I believe about the content of the Qur'an mattered not at all, because I'll not be the one who will acted out Allah's commands, but what the Muslims believe about the Qur'an, that is what important, there are almost 1.5 billion of muslims around the world, if only 10% of them believe all of Allah's commands you will got 150 millions of them readily to commit terror attack.

W| 7.29.11 @ 10:12AM

John, do you believe Jesus Christ is God, or Allah,if you prefer. It does matter if you believe the Koran, so do you or don't you. Is there a reason you do not want to answer?

John of Indonesia| 7.29.11 @ 12:23PM

I don't know who you are, but you should have know who I believe because I have told you I am a Christian, of course I believe in Jesus Christ and I don't believe in Allah, and if you want to say Allah is the same as God I will tell you I don't buy that crap. And I absolutely don't believe the Qur'an and I don't believe Mohammad a prophet at all, no prophet will attack a caravan for it's goods, no prophet will behead 600 of Jews in one night!

Margie| 7.29.11 @ 2:33PM

"W" has a knee-jerk reaction to Christians who aren't Catholics.

He simply sees them through black tinted lenses.

W| 7.29.11 @ 6:20PM

Sorry, Marg, You are not a Christian, you do not have the tolererance, graciousness, and humility. I base that on what your write, i dont know you. Saying you are a christian and pasting bible verses does not make one a christian, when i see you act like one on this site, i will be the first to say so.

John of Indonesia| 7.29.11 @ 8:55PM

I am a Christian all right, but I can't help but despise Islam, you will also if you ever saw thousands of it's believers marching on then streets killing and raping your ethnic group in thousands.

But as a Christian I do not see the need for Catholic and Protestant to hate or against each other, in fact no Christians, both Catholics and Protestants, in Indonesia ever against each other in any issue at all. We can't effort such hostilities when a group of hostile religion believers had been preying on both of us for many years, and remember their numbers are ten times Catholic and Protestant combined.

Margie| 7.30.11 @ 7:34PM

Wow. That is something coming from a person who only ever offers lies and insults!

Besides Trolls like you don't get to judge whether someone's a Christian.
LOL.

You're a fraud and a blatant liar.

"But for the cowardly and faithless ones,
and disgusting ones, and murderers, and
fornicators, and users of magic, and idolaters,
and all liars, their part will be in the
Lake burning with fire and brimstone,
which is the second death."

Repent, liar.

Margie| 7.30.11 @ 7:36PM

That was to the lying Catholic (surprise, surprise), "W".

g wayne| 7.28.11 @ 12:42PM

Chosen because the bible says so. As mentioned before we live in the time of the gentiles and this will end. After that the Jews will recognize Jesus as the messiah. As the writer and some commentators have made plain, there is no logical reason to hold this small nation and its people all over the world in such contempt. As it is written, "blessed is he that blesseth thee and cursed is he that curseth thee". Has God given you some new insight that should give us reason to disregard what He has said? The fact that God preserved the Jewish people, its practices and history throughout the dispora, brought them back into the land (read Ezekials dry bones vision), blessed their land, (one of the largest citrus exporters in the world), shows they are a special people in a special place for a special reason at this time in history.

TrueBlue| 7.28.11 @ 6:50PM

Don't forget the place was practically barren, having only a few tent cities and barely any vegetation, before the Jews returned to it and made it properous prior to WW2.

Occam's Tool| 7.28.11 @ 3:18PM

Yes, you are on drugs, Canuckistani, for many reasons. Checked the number of Nobel Prizes won lately?

ShortNSweet| 7.28.11 @ 12:42PM

Very well said, Darin! and so very true.

I choose Israel! God bless Israel, and the people of the beautiful city of Jerusalem. Went their, love it! The Israelis, secular or religious, say that Jerusalem is the center of the universe. I say it has an unbelievable magnetism that words can not explain.

Intelligent Design| 7.28.11 @ 7:42AM

The Jews have contributed to human progress and happiness in so many ways, far exceeding their relative number. The Muslims have contributed to human misery, ignorance, and degradation in so many ways, far exceeding their relative number. Muslims are mired in the 7th century, while Jews are leaders in the 21st.

canuckistani| 7.28.11 @ 10:44AM

Perhaps it is a genetic defect that can be filtered out?
Or was Ben Franklin being a prophet:
"I fully agree with General Washington, that we must protect this young nation from an insidious influence and impenetration. That menace, gentlemen, is the Jews. In whatever country Jews have settled in any great number, they have lowered its moral tone; depreciated its commercial integrity; have segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; have sneered at and tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that nation was founded by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state within a state; and when opposed have tried to strangle that country to death financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal.

"For over 1700 hundred years, the Jews have been bewailing their sad fate in that they have been exiled from their homeland, as they call Palestine. But, gentlemen, did the world give it to them in fee simple, they would at once find some reason for not returning. Why? Because they are vampires, and vampires do not live on vampires. They cannot live only amongst themselves. They must subsist on Christians and other people not of their race. If you do not exclude them from these United States in the Constitution, in less than 200 years they will have swarmed here in such great numbers that they will dominate and devour the land, and change our form of government, for which we Americans have shed our blood, given our lives, our substance, and jeopardized our liberty.

"If you do not exclude them, in less than 200 years our descendants will be working in the fields to furnish them substance, while they will be in the counting houses rubbing their hands. I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not exclude the Jews for all time, your children will curse you in your graves. Jews, gentlemen, are Asiatics, let them be born where they will or how many generations they are away from Asia, they will never be otherwise. Their ideas do not conform to an American's, and will not even though they live among us ten generations. A leopard cannot change its spots. Jews are Asiatics, are a menace to this country if permitted entrance, and should be excluded by this Constitutional Convention."

Crazy talk, but interesting coming from a founder that is above reproach.

John of Indonesia| 7.28.11 @ 12:30PM

That only proven Benjamin Franklin is a racist, note how many times he use Asiatic, as if people from Asia are all worthless.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 12:48PM

Correct. And it also simply shows that he was unenlightened.
Real Christians love the Jewish people, just as we love ALL people.
God's love isn't based on Race. It's based on Who He IS.

"He who does not love does not know God; for God is love." 1 Jn. 4:8.

ShortNSweet| 7.28.11 @ 1:07PM

canuckistani, how unfortunate that you curse yourself. "I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you, And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." Gen. 12:3 NKJV. It is by the blood of the Lamb, Christ Jesus that all may be saved(And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.) Jesus was Jewish!!! And you think they should all be "excluded"?? Really!?!?

canuckistani| 7.28.11 @ 2:45PM

No not really. But we have the lazy habit of equating Israel with Jewry around the world, just as the Intelligent Designer above considers ALL Muslims defective.

Israel is a net consumer state, just like other pious states like Kentucky that purport to defend the honor of a nation whilst suckling at the teat.

Pious "True" Jews are actually an irritant in Israel due to the fact they they do not contribute anything to the welfare and growth of the state. Their politics, like the baggers here, have thrown any hope of movement out the window.

Jesus was a Nazarene, not a Jerusalemite. He was a carpenter's adopted son and would never have lived happily in that city. He was convicted and killed in Jerusalem by Jewish politicians and an indifferent imperial manager.
Nazareth is an Arab city, just like Bethlehem. They respect Christian pilgrims extremely well - moreso than our Jewish handlers around the Holy Sepulchre.

Remember, the church was built on Peter -and he left. Paul was condemned by the same politician/clerics as Jesus and left and so did the twelve pay with their lives.

As a Christian, there is nothing in Jerusalem but death memorials. He stated His Kingdom was not of this earth, so why do we attempt to mark His realm?
If we believe Jerusalem to be a Holy Christian place, why do we permit it be managed by a theocracy of any ilk but Christendom?

Third Temple whackos are prevalent on this site, and it is sad.

ShortNSweet| 7.29.11 @ 10:54AM

I spent 3 weeks there in 2009, and the Palestinians were the ones who were unkind. The only reason they tolerated us (Americans) was because we were there to spend money. The US govt stopped giving our citizens permission to go into Bethlehem several years ago, and their economy bottomed out. Then, and only then, did they promise to be nice to US citizens so that we would go back in there (WestBank) and spend our precious money. The day I was in Bethlehem, as I walked up the street to the Church of the Nativity, a gang of men in long white cloaks with machine guns came running out from the street that we were about to enter to get to the church, followed by a string of stretch limos with completely blacked out windows, the drivers being all that could be seen in them, came racing down past us. We stood in shock as they all passed, ending with some more men wielding machine guns. Sound like nice people to you? We proceeded to go into one of two stores that we were permitted to shop in, and I was followed around by a man with a smirky grin, and eyeing me head to toe. He gave me the creeps to say the least. Another of those really nice people.

We went to Nazareth, and Jerusalem, and the Sea of Galilee, and Jericho and Cecearea by the Sea and Capernum and on and on. Palestinians are everywhere. Jews allow them all over their portion of the lands....No jew is allowed in Palestinian territory. That means, Jericho, and Bethlehem. Nazareth is Israeli territory, and there are both Palestians, and Israelis there.

When we went up on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, which is under Palestinian control, we were not allowed to wear our cross necklaces, or to carry our bibles, or they would be confiscated. When we arrived at the place of the Temple Mount we were met by a begger...a women with a child of less than a year old. This woman was pointing at this darling child, and saying something in Arabic. In other words, she wanted us to feel sorry for the child, and give her money...on the Temple Mount. Some more of those really praise worthy Palestinians, that don't, in your opinion, "suckle teat". So where did you get your information, anyway?????

The people of Israel, Secular or Religious, were warm and welcoming, and kind. The Palestinians scared me, frankly.

None of the above information was taken from some Liberal Media Outlet....It is a very personal account...I experienced these things, and saw them with my own eyes.

Occam's Tool| 7.28.11 @ 3:20PM

Franklin was hardly above reproach. Member of the Hellfire Club.

Go Party with Clint, Canuck.

Note that Franklin was outvoted.

Clint| 7.28.11 @ 7:32PM

Go Party With Your Mancrush Bibi, Screwball Israel Firster Traitor Bastard Tool Job.

Occam's Tool| 7.28.11 @ 3:27PM

A forgery, Canuckistani. He helped found the first synagogue in Philadelphia. Shove it up your lying ass, Clint-fan.

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"The Franklin Prophecy", sometimes called "The Franklin Forgery", is an antisemitic speech falsely attributed to Benjamin Franklin, warning of the supposed dangers of admitting Jews to the nascent United States. The speech was purportedly transcribed by Charles Cotesworth Pinckney during the Constitutional Convention of 1787, but was unknown before its appearance in 1934 in the pages of William Dudley Pelley's Silver Legion pro-Nazi weekly magazine Liberation. (Pinckney wrote that he had kept a journal of the Convention, but it has never been found, and Pelley's claims that it was printed privately, and that the Franklin Institute has a manuscript copy, are unsubstantiated.)

Contents [hide]
1 Authenticity
2 Elements of the speech
3 References
4 External links
5 Further reading

[edit] AuthenticityDespite having been repeatedly discredited since its first appearance, the "prophecy" has proved a remarkably durable canard, returning most recently as a popular internet hoax promulgated on Usenet groups and antisemitic websites, where it is presented as authentic. On February 18, 1998, a member of the Fatah Central Committee revived this myth and mistakenly referred to Franklin as a former President of the United States.[1] Osama Bin Laden has even used this canard briefly in his October 2002 "Letter to the American People."[2] While its author is not known, many who have investigated the "prophecy" suspect Pelley of having penned it himself.

The U.S. Congress report Anti-Semitism in Europe: Hearing Before the Subcommittee on European Affairs of the Committee on Foreign Relations (2004) states:

The Franklin "Prophecy" is a classic anti-Semitic canard that falsely claims that American statesman Benjamin Franklin made anti-Jewish statements during the Constitutional Convention of 1787. It has found widening acceptance in Muslim and Arab media, where it has been used to criticize Israel and Jews...[3]

Franklin was, in fact, a friend to the Jews of 18th-century America,[4] and contributed toward the building of Philadelphia's first permanent synagogue.[5]"

PolishKnight| 7.28.11 @ 3:31PM

Nice bit of research, but it would be useful to post the URL (so we can look at the various references in the document). Nonetheless, nice work.

canuckistani| 7.28.11 @ 4:55PM

I hope it is a fake. But the sentiments around Jews and Jewry - notwithstanding the Holocaust - are deep in every Western (aka Christian) country's history.
We underwrite the "nation" status of Jewry with our endorsement of Israel, when true American strength was found in the assimilation of peoples into the whole.
The reality is our banks, media and political advisors of all stripes are more than likely Jewish. Is this a testament to their voracious appetite for power or our laziness? Probably both.

If you measure Jewish power and influence to their population, they are indeed the chosen people, and Christains should be adopting their methods and tactics instead of underwriting them.

I do know if I need a lawyer, I want a Jew. He will work to win at all costs, because he knows law is plastic.
If I want a CPA, I want a Jew. I will ask what 2 plus 2 equals, he will reply "what number did you have in mind?"
If I need dumb infantry or simple ditch diggers, I want a Texan, every time.

simon templar| 7.28.11 @ 7:55PM

You hope it is a fake? You shoved this Lie in our face with your typical smarmy, know it all, ignorant as shit liberal attitude. You got caught red handed. What other crap have you been handed that you ignorantly accepted as a fact. You might want to ask yourself. The you end your comment with racist and intolerant statements about jews and texans. Thanks. You have just proven what we have believed about liberals..you are anti-semetic, racist, and intolerant. You do not give a frick about truth or facts just your dogma.

Nick| 7.29.11 @ 12:43AM

You really are some kind of intellectual heavy-weight, Canuckistani. I think NOT!

If bloodline dictates the qualities that a person has innately, your whole family must be a bunch of anti-Semitic morons.

John of Indonesia| 7.29.11 @ 4:05AM

@Canuck, you wrote "The reality is our banks, media and political advisors of all stripes are more than likely Jewish"...
I'd say it is because they are competent, just like when Joshep being sold as a slave to Egypt only to emerge as the second most powerful man in Egypt.

Certain people have proficiency in certain treat, I remember once read a book about the history chinese in Indonesia, the writer wrote: "It only took 50 years since the Dutch brought the chinese to Batavia as labor only for them to emerge as the merchant class, while almost all the native still a farmer". My grandpa comes to Indonesia during China Civil War, his only profession in Indonesia is a dock worker while his sons(include my dad) which all of them born in Indonesia become merchants. I personally think Chinese has a natural proficiency in trade, just like British of Europe or the Minang(an ethnic) of Indonesia. I hope my statement isn't considered as racist.

W| 7.29.11 @ 1:55PM

Canuck,
So you think our soldiers (the US Army, don't know your country), most of whom are infantry, and who protect, us are "dumb?" I assume you have never said this in person to a Texan or a soldier, but you do have courage to type it in your basement.
Why would you need to ask what 2 plus 2 equals? Can't you do basic math?
Believe me, no self respecting Jewish lawyer or accountant would represent you once your anti-semitism is revealed in your questions .
It seems you are trying to match or exceed the anti-catholic bigotry here with you anti-semitism. Why don't you just get lost?

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:29PM

Canuck---you are a sick little pup, aren't you. And PK--screw you, sir. The sharia advocates are on the March, and all you can dwell on are Blue-on-Blue of almost 50 years ago.

Canuck, It's not "I hope it is a fake." It was first published in a neo-Nazi journal. In real life, Franklin helped FOUND the first synagogue in Philly. Moron.

PolishKnight| 7.29.11 @ 11:19PM

Occam's Tool, if you notice, _I_ didn't bring it up. It was an ad-hominem attack against me and the Poles proving my point that anyone who dares to discuss anti-semitism will be smeared an anti-semite along with their racial background.

Occam's Tool| 7.31.11 @ 11:37PM

The way you did so was still highly offensive,. And, you note, I am not attacking Poles, just you.

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 9:52PM

Canuckistani:

The Houston based Texas Medical Center is one of the most advanced in the world, especially
in Cancer research and Treatment.Baylor Medical Center is home to the best Specialist on Neurology/Psychiatry interface in the world, and the Menninger Clinics. Southwestern won the Nobel Prize in Medicine. Galveston has one of the World's authorities on Bipolar disorder as chair of its Psychiatry department.

UT and A & M are World Class Universities in Physics and Chemistry. TCU is home to the finest Piano Competition in the US, the Van Cliburn. Rice is home to one of the finest engineering schools in the World.

My wife graduated Summa Cum Laude in Accounting from 'Bama. She is a non-demoninational Christian. In short, you stupid, bigoted antisemitic scumbag, you disgust me beyond measure.

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:26PM

wikipedia. Look up Franklin and the Jews.

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 9:12PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T....._Prophecy.

Check out the references in it. There you are. No, I'm not claiming that Wikipedia is the end all, be-all, but the Franklin prophecy is a piece of crap, Like The Protocols.

Poppy| 7.29.11 @ 11:46AM

He also recommended that we not let any more Germans into the country as he saw them in a similiar light.

Poppy| 7.29.11 @ 11:52AM

As a follow up, that doesnt mean we should throw out everything the man said. It just means we should elevate the founding fathers to more than what they were. They had some very good ideas and some ideas that were not so good. They were men not Gods or perfect. Luther is another example of a person who had some very good ideas and others that are distastful to us now. That doesnt mean you throw out everything the man said or did it just means we need to choose wisely from among their thoughts and deeds. Thomas Jefferson is another, he did so much to further the ideals of freedom, yet he owned slaves and died deeply indebted. Great figures of the past are men first and foremost. They reflect the thinking of the age they were born to. Some of their ideas and values stand the test of time and should be encouraged. Some of their ideas should be laid to rest with their corpses. It does not make their good ideas moot we merely have to remember that they were men and were not perfect.

Poppy| 7.29.11 @ 12:02PM

One of the biggest reasons that Jews tend to excell is their culture of education. They were not allowed to own land in many areas of the world that they lived in. Consequently they had to find other ways to make a living. Trading and banking were the natural outcomes of this. Coupled with the importance of education in their culture this naturally led to them exeling compared to their gentile neighbors. There was also a great importance of cleanliness in their culture which automatically allowed them to escape many of the plagues which decimated Europe during the middle ages. These facters all led them to be viewed with jelousy by their neighbors. They were an easy scapegoat for the ills of the time as they separated themselves from most other cultures. Leaders at the time were also not reluctant when they had a large debt with them to stir up animosity among the population against the jews as a way to not have to repay money owed. These factors explain their apparent "chosenness" by God. Unfortunately success usually yields jelously.

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:32PM

Poppy---this WAS a forgery. You are correct in your comments below about Jewish success---it is ALL due to respect for intellectual achievements. Not race, not skullduggery---the fact is that the Jewish manhood ritual is a test of literacy.

Sorry, PK. By the way, you are right---many Poles helped out the Jews in Poland. But the Jews in Poland suffred a 90% loss rate---higher than in any other country in the world. And before the Nazis, the Polses treated them like crap, as well.

W| 7.29.11 @ 10:45PM

Poppy/OT, agree. I grew up in a "Jewish" area of the city, and had many Jewish friends. The reason for success is easy to state: Hard Work, studying, reading, respect and support for culture such as the opera,symphony, museums; strong family influences and role models to do well in school and work, etc.

PolishKnight| 7.29.11 @ 11:32PM

Let's go with that claim for a moment: If the Poles treated the Jews like crap, why were so many of them there? And Poland suffered a higher loss rate overall, including for Polish civilians, than western European nations that capitulated far more quickly such as France.

In any case, you told me to screw off below for talking about WWII and yet I'm only talking about it because it was brought up as an ad-hominem slur against me and Poles while playing the good ol' race card.

In any case, all this talk about their intellectual superiority doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of them in the states support a racist leftist agenda that has ironically backfired on them winding up adopting radical anti-Jewish Islamicists as their latest pet special interest group.

Is THAT very smart?

You know... I respect people who are well educated, and literate, and even well spoken but when they wind up being total hypocritical fools, it makes it all the more tragic. One can be a fool a hell of a lot more easily than going through all that.

Occam's Tool| 7.31.11 @ 11:41PM

Because they were trapped there, that's why. Review the St Louis.

People stay where they are born and do not leave it unless overwhelming pressures occur, in most cases. But I have a Ukranian born Grandmother who told me about Pogroms there. And there were many,many pogroms in Poland.

What the Jews in the States support (not me, not Debbie Sclussel, not David Horowitz or Midge Decter, or the Podhoretzes, or Kristol, or etc.) may be quite stupid in many ways. But there are a LOT of David Mamets. The problem is that we are Mercurians, and contribute ALL out of proportion to our number.

Elgordo| 7.28.11 @ 8:03AM

EXPOSE THE RED STATES DEM SENATORS WHO SIGNED REID'S D.O.A. LETTER......
There are 11 vulnerable Dem Senate seats up for re-election in Red States or states that went Republican in 2010.......6 of these Senators are especially vulnerable: ; Ben Nelson of Nebr. Bill Nelson of FL, Claire McCaskill of MO., Jon Tester of Mont., and from the coal rich states of W.Va. and PA. respectively, Joe Manchin and Robt. Casey..... In other states such as Wisc., VA., No. Dak., New Mex., Hawaii., their Dem Senators, many sensing defeat, are retiring. Also NJ's Gov. Christie is making voting for Republicans more popular in the Garden State , so their Dem Senator in 2012, Robt. Menendez, may also be vulnerable. ......The names of these vulnerable Dem Senators should be revealed as having signed Sen. Reid's Dead on Arrival Letter.

Bill S| 7.28.11 @ 8:47AM

Nonbelievers hate the Jews because Satan hates the Jews.

(John 8:44 NIV) You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 12:44PM

Amen.

Anna| 7.28.11 @ 9:04AM

"History is shown to be not so much a process as an unfolding drama, revealing the intervention of God." I'm a fellow Roman Catholic, and I see this too; it is both a beautiful and terrible story at the same time. I share your same affection for Israel because I have those moments when I wonder about the spiritual history of my family...with far too many facts obscured by time, reaching back to Spain in the 15th century. The reality is that people of most faiths can draw lines that will intersect in Jerusalem, and that is reason enough to insist it be a city of peace run by those who have endured much and God has called His own.

D. Singh| 7.28.11 @ 9:25AM

Sir

Brilliant!

Outstanding article!

Thank you, Mr Bethell.

C Smith| 7.28.11 @ 9:44AM

Raiders of the Lost Menorah

Rome’s Arch of Titus depicts the triumphant return of Roman’s legions from the destruction of Jerusalem. Titus, on horse drawn chariot, accompanied by the winged goddess Victoria leads a laurelled procession carrying the temple menorah, the symbol of the Nation of Israel. Biblical Archeology Review (July/August 2005), with cover featuring that relief, recounts a meeting between Israel’s Minister of Religious Affairs Shimon Shetreet and Vatican officials: A “tense silence” was reported when Shetreet suggested that Israel’s golden menorah may be in a Vatican storeroom and requested the Pope’s assistance in its location. The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs explains why this and similar requests have met with a similar response:

The requests by Shetreet, the president, and the chief rabbis reflect the long-held belief that the Catholic Church – as the inheritor of Rome, took possession of the empire’s booty – as documented by the Arch of Titus. … This is not to say that 2,000 years or so have been enough time for the [Vatican’s] Foreign Ministry to formulate a policy on the matter. Unofficially at least, we look forward to the restoration of the treasures of the Jewish people … but do not anticipate this will occur before the coming of the Messiah.

After almost 2000 years of erecting monuments on every “holy” site, launching crusades to recapture the “holy” land, and instigating negotiations to declare the “holy” city an international city under the papal control, it is obvious that the raiders of the lost menorah want more than Israel’s symbol, they want “ISRAEL”! Therefore, we should not anticipate that the Roman Church – as the self proclaimed inheritor of Israel’s promises, will ever consider themselves other than “THE ISRAEL OF GOD” before the coming of the Messiah.

The purpose and the primary emphasis of Romanism has always been and will be to the end, a desire for total world dominance. Now they have laps where they are not as influential as at other times. But their goal as clearly stated by the dogma of the church is a total dominance of the religious world (The Valley Church)

http://theisraelofgod.blogspot.....norah.html

C Smith| 7.28.11 @ 9:49AM

Every Day Remembrance Day

“Onward, Christian solders, Marching as to war, With the Cross of Jesus Going on before”! Years ago my wife recounted how our pre-school daughter marched up and down the driveway that separated us from our neighbors singing that song. She quickly brought her in! Our neighbors were Jews, and as Jews, very aware of the “Cross of Jesus” and its historical significance. Simon Wiesenthal, Holocaust survivor, Nazis hunter, and author of numerous books including Every Day Remembrance Day: A Chronicle of Jewish Martyrdom recounts the history and "witness" of the professing Church. He also seems to unconscientiously explain the reason Jews (including himself) have yet to recognize their Messiah:

As this calendar shows, the story of the persecution of the Jews has always been directed by Christians: first of all by the Roman Catholic Church, then by the Orthodox Church. These Churches plunder the Bible, the most precious element of Jewish life, the unique treasure of Jewish identity, and use it for their own ends. … The official theology of the Catholic Church considers Rome “the true Jerusalem” and the Church “the true Israel.” In the eyes of the Church the Jews forfeited their history and their means of salvation by killing Jesus. … The history of the persecution of the Jews is — as will become clear from this calendar — at the same time a history of Christianity. The acts of persecution against the Jews were from the very beginning acts of revenge against that part of the Jewish community which refused to recognize Jesus (even though the first Christians were actually Jews) (Simon Wiesenthal, Every Day Remembrance Day, p. 9, emphasis added).

The aged author stared back at me from the cover of the Jerusalem Post, September 22, 2005. As I scanned the front page in a Jerusalem book store, I insensitively recommend Wiesenthal’s chronicle of Jewish martyrdom to the young girl who, only moments before, had been so courteous and helpful. In a passionate but precise Oxford intonation, she blurted out: “I DON’T NEED THE BOOK, I’VE LIVED IT!” For one brief moment, I saw what lies latent in every Jewish soul.

http://theisraelofgod.blogspot.com/2007/02/12.html

PJ| 7.28.11 @ 11:36AM

Do you believe everything that's written in blogs? Or do you verify first?

C Smith: I am now blogging. --------> You're a numbnut!!

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 12:22PM

Of course you'd say that because you subscribe to the false Religion, Catholicism.

You care not whether the poster above speaks the truth, you only wish to defend your Religion.

Despising the truth no matter who says it is what God says prevents you from entering into His Heaven.

You label truth tellers as most Catholics do~ as haters and nuts.

You already have your reward.

PJ| 7.28.11 @ 1:45PM

Marge, You know I'm praying for you. ALWAYS!

Clint| 7.28.11 @ 7:34PM

There's American Spectator's Resident Serial Anti-Catholic Bigot , Israel Firster Margie

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:33PM

And the American Spectators resident paulBot and Jew-hater, C(lint) Elegans, self-fertilizing roundworm, who will now threaten me with physical violence, because he is a poorly raised PUNK.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 7:35PM

"So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed." Jn. 8:36.

ShortNSweet| 7.28.11 @ 1:25PM

What ever Jewish man, woman, or child has latent in his soul...is between him and God alone!!!

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 7:36PM

Romans 11.

Atheist| 7.29.11 @ 9:49AM

What does Romans 11 mean to you?

Margie| 7.29.11 @ 2:46PM

It means exactly what it says. I do not interpret. I take God at His Word.

Romans chapter 11 talks about how we are grafted in to God because His chosen people rebelled. (And that He has NOT forsaken His people, and never will!).

He also states that because of this, we are (Christians) not to be conceited, because His plan is to save ALL Israel!

It is a wonderful book~ you must read it.
It ends with one of the most amazing statements IMHO in the entire Bible:

"For God has consigned all men to disobedience, that He may have mercy upon all." Rom. 11:32.

Can you wrap your mind around that?
He's actually saying it is all in His plan for mankind!
That we would fall so that His Mercy could be revealed in our hearts, through Christ.

Atheist| 7.30.11 @ 2:19PM

I will read it. How did Jesus reveal himself to you?

Margie| 7.30.11 @ 7:46PM

He filled me with His Spirit and joy, and thereby changed me from the inside out. He gave me godly desires and the power to resist sin.
I began to love His Words as found in the Bible, and He gave me a thirst for more that has never died.
He is a wonderful Saviour and promises that if you seek Him with all your heart, you will be found by Him.

"Thy words were found, and I ate them, and Thy Words became to me a joy and the delight of my heart; for I am called by thy Name, O LORD, God of hosts." Jer. 15:16.

"You will seek Me and find Me; when you seek Me with all your heart.." Jer. 29:13.

Margie| 7.29.11 @ 3:02PM

Sn'S:

He may correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was saying this in the way of how some Jewish people may think that Christians are no good because of how they were persecuted.

I didn't take his comment as against the Jewish girl, at all.

Am I wrong?
Because if that IS what he meant, then I will retract my agreeing with him!

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:34PM

Thanks, SNS. With you and Margie, I feel appreciated. G-d Bless.

Citizen Jerry| 7.28.11 @ 10:41AM

Hatred of the Jews may boggle the mind, but it's been going on since the days of Abraham's sons, Isaac and Ishmael. At its root is a hatred of the God of Israel.

For those with an interest in eschatology, you have to wonder whether this is all part of the fast- approaching denouement for the Age of Man.

Kingofthenet| 7.28.11 @ 10:54AM

The Hatred makes PERFECT sense. The world isn't the USA, people are tribal, when a group enters a community, doesn't assimilate, and is perceived to be cheating the locals out of money/business deals....well bad things

John of Indonesia| 7.28.11 @ 12:46PM

I disagree with you, here in Indonesia, you will be hard pressed to find a single Jew in the 2700 islands of Indonesia, yet almost all the muslims hate Jews, I have yet to find an Indonesian Muslim whom does not hate Jews. Just recently, when the news about the killing of Indonesian housemaid in Saudi Arabia, a muslim commented in online forum 'This is horrible, they are no better than Jews!', that's summed up the feeling of most muslims here!.

Kingofthenet| 7.28.11 @ 12:57PM

They are showing Solidarity to their Palestinian brothers.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 1:01PM

I see. with murderers?

John of Indonesia| 7.28.11 @ 1:14PM

Solidarity to Palestinian is only half of the reason, the other half is because the Qur'an brainwashed muslims to think of Jews as the worst people of the world, the prophets killers, descendants of Satan... Allah depicted Jews as pig in that 'holy' Qur'an and rumored had transformed some of them in to pigs. Allah is the only God in modern day religions that is both racist and evil, aspects that are impossible belong to God but would fit perfectly into Satan.

canuckistani| 7.28.11 @ 3:09PM

Baloney. The founding fathers had the same impression. I thought they were enlightened?
The moors and saladin were far more accomodating than Christendom to Jewry.

Mormons the same with their "mark of cain" garbage classifying blacks until the G rammed it down their throats.

just tribal BS that is the source of our power and weakness at the same time. Religion has alaways been used as a chip in the grand political game

We permitted the ownership of another human being in this country until we resorted to bullets to settle the issue. It took another 100 years to allow blacks to marry whites in the states we adoringly call real America on here.

That was 44 years ago, and we condemn Islam for not evolving fast enough? Grow up.

Ask an orthodox Jew how many Jewish laws in the Torah or Talmud have been revised or updated in 1500 years. Zero.

The Bible has had zero revisions in the same period, same as the Koran, and we condemn the absence of context?

Israel Cohen| 7.28.11 @ 7:14PM

I don't usually answer antisemites, but Canuckistani is dead wrong when he says: "Ask an orthodox Jew how many Jewish laws in the Torah or Talmud have been revised or updated in 1500 years. Zero."

I am an Orthodox Jew. The answer is not zero. Changes in halakhah (or Jewish law) include the status of agunot (deserted wives), the definition of hamets (prohibited foods on Passover), the use of electricity on the Sabbath (some Orthodox rabbis wanted to ban the use of lights that had been illuminated prior to the Sabbath, but their views were not accepted), the preparation of cheese and wine, the relationship of Jewish marriage and divorce to civil marriage and divorce--the list goes on and on.

Those who are hostile to Judaism ought to restrict themselves from commenting upon it.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 7:40PM

"The moors and saladin were far more accomodating than Christendom to Jewry."

It depends on your definition of Christendom.
Catholicism isn't Christendom.
They not only tortured and killed Jews but Christians as well under the Papacy.

They still reject Christianity today and despise Bible believing Christians.
They not only killed Christians, but like Hitler, anyone who dared to oppose their doctrines.

So, in all~ Murderers are NOT Christian. They do not kill.

W| 7.28.11 @ 8:52PM

Another piece of lovely, peaceful writing from that true "christian," the Mullah Margie, you cannot help yourself from spouting stupid, ignorant, hateful bigotry. You are a sharia muslim at heart with your intolerance and obsession and belief that your are right. Go back to your Klan meetings where you can salivate over burning a cross and church. To compare Catholics to Hitler shows you are mentally deranged in addition to just a plain, stupid, bigot.
Don't bother pasting some biblical nonsense.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 11:08PM

Since you again falsely accuse me of lying, I here will post the truth about what I spoke:

Papal Persecutions

Thus far our history of persecution has been confined principally to the pagan world. We come now to a period when persecution, under the guise of Christianity, committed more enormities than ever disgraced the annals of paganism. Disregarding the maxims and the spirit of the Gospel, the papal Church, arming herself with the power of the sword, vexed the Church of God and wasted it for several centuries, a period most appropriately termed in history, the "dark ages." The kings of the earth, gave their power to the "Beast," and submitted to be trodden on by the miserable vermin that often filled the papal chair, as in the case of Henry, emperor of Germany. The storm of papal persecution first burst upon the Waldenses in France."

http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/fox104.htm

Read your history and know what you are with regard to same before you hurl your lies at me!

Hitler? No, but worse than Hitler, as these murderers committed their atrocities in the Name of Christ!

W| 7.29.11 @ 6:19AM

"Worse than Hitler,"
You are delusional and paranoid. I feel sorry for you, your hate. You can cite chapter and verse from your favorite bible, but you are not a christian in any sense of the world. It is a waste of time trying to talk to you, you have your obsessions and cannot reason.

Margie| 7.29.11 @ 3:04PM

Oh, I'm sorry~ but you cannot see that the Papacy killing Christians IN THE NAME OF GOD is worse than Hitler?

No, you do not WANT to see the truth.

Mister Grady| 7.29.11 @ 6:14AM

The bloody history of the Roman Church is well-known, thoroughly documented, and irrefutable, though I don't suppose I well ever see a single solitary Catholic take ownership of this shame.

No, instead what we get is ruffled feathers and whining about "anti-Catholicism." There might be less anti-Catholic sentiment if the Roman church would stop calling itself "the church", stop lying about Peter being the first pope (he wasn't), and stop lying about having come up with the Bible (it didn't).

The better you know the Bible, the harder it is to be a Catholic. The Roman church is a pseudo-Christian cult laden with ceremony, ritual, empty religiosity, warmed-over Roman pagansim, and worst of all, a distorted Gospel. Mary worship, praying to saints and to Mary, idol worship, rosaries, indulgences, purgatory, latin obsession, candles, a church emperor (the pope) and a highly political and bureaucratic hierarchy, men in weird robes and weirder hats, penance, hail Marys, the Spanish Inquisition, on and on and on...have no place in a Christian church, and not only is none of that Biblically justified, but it is also contra-Biblical.

W| 7.29.11 @ 7:21AM

Mister Grady, why don't you use the name you usually post?

Margie| 7.29.11 @ 3:05PM

And tell us just exactly how you know he is taking another name?

W| 7.29.11 @ 6:23PM

Because he sounds exactly like you,Marg,or one of your Klan members,you give yourself away,

Mister Grady| 7.29.11 @ 5:00PM

This is my first post on this forum.

Nevertheless, excellent retort!

simon templar| 7.28.11 @ 8:00PM

My lord, you are one ignorant jew hating piece of shit that can not help yourself from spouting lie after lie. Liberals really are racist, KKK democrats. You would have made a great Nazi in 1939.

simon templar| 7.28.11 @ 8:02PM

That was directed to Canukastani.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 8:14PM

I knew that, simon.
simon,
Canuck doesn't know the Lord yet. When he does, his prejudices will fall away just like the scales did from the Apostle Paul's eyes.
That is, if he wants them to.

W| 7.28.11 @ 8:52PM

ST, you agree with margie's nonsense?

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:36PM

The Founding Fathers had the same impression? You mean like George washington,l who relied on Haym Solomon? Or Franklin, who helped found the first synagogue in Philly? Or Robert Morris, who was a close friend of Solomon? Or Jefferson, who supported religious liberty for the Jews?

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:38PM

The Moors treated Jews like crap. Have you read Maimonides, Canuckistani? If not, stifle.

John of Indonesia| 7.28.11 @ 9:15PM

Just to share a story:
During 1995-1999 when I was studying in a university in Jakarta, Indonesia. I have the, I don't know it is fortunate or unfortunate, to got a rented house beside a small mosque, my bedroom were on the second floor right across a window where one of the mosque's speaker directly face the window.

So I have to listen to their 'most beautiful/music like' prayer (according to BHO) 5 times a day everyday during those 4 years, on every Friday prayer the mosque will invite a Haji(a kind of imam) to lead the prayer and preach, I haven't been a christian at that time, but nonetheless I noted some 'not so friendly' orate toward non-muslim in some of the speeches, but at that time I was a pretty ignorant about Islam and Christianity too, and the values of both religions were pretty mixed up in my opinion at that time. Only after I started to learn about about Christianity that I began to recognize which value belongs to Islam and which to Christianity.

During my Ignorant Time(well, now I know muslim call it Jahillya) an imam talk about how one day Christians will convert to Islam en masse because they are actualy missguided muslims, "Isa is a Muslim after all" he said, "they knew it but they are too proud to acknowledge it". Well, my reaction at that time was if Christians know their Isa(I havent thought of Isa as Jesus then) is actually a Muslim why they don't just left Christianity and become a Muslim?... such naive of the younger me, fortunately I'm wise up now.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 11:20PM

Jesus obviously rescued you from false Religion, and I'm glad He did!
God bless you.
Stay faithful.

John, here is a wonderful Bible that you can read online. It will feed you well spiritually:

http://www.sgpbooks.com/cubeca.....fo_16.html

John of Indonesia| 7.29.11 @ 12:28PM

Thanks Margie, this is really helpful.

Margie| 7.29.11 @ 3:06PM

You are welcome here, at least, by me.
You will not be welcome by Catholics though.
You will be shunned and lied about and demeaned and told you speak hate.
The truth is hate to those who hate the truth.
God bless you.

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:38PM

Dear John of Indonesia: G-d Bless.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 1:00PM

KOTN:

Are you listening to yourself?

"That hatred makes perfect sense."

No, the only hatred that makes perfect sense is the hatred of Sin.

Do you hate Sin? Do you care where you end up after you die?

Kingofthenet| 7.28.11 @ 1:37PM

Margie, I may have used a poor choice of words, I am NOT condoning antisemitism just saying it is impossible to single one out when one assimilates. You want people to like you, let their Son's marry your Daughter and vs verse. Otherwise there will be hurt feelings, and that is a bad thing when you are a small minority.

Occam's Tool| 7.28.11 @ 3:23PM

King, you are condoning antisemitism. Shove it up your nematode ass.

The Jews in Germany in the 20s and 30s intermarried frequently, King. Get to know your history, pushead.

Kingofthenet| 7.28.11 @ 4:37PM

Wouldn't be better to live a RIGHTEOUS Life Day IN AND OUT,than to atone for all the people you ripped off one day a year?

RCV| 7.28.11 @ 6:07PM

Now that remark is PURE antisemitism in its good old unhidden form. You, sir, are an ASS.

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 7:48PM

KOTN,

As I've told you before, you need to get yourself on your knees to your Creator God, and ask for the forgiveness of your sins. And quick!
Life is short and Hell is real.
Do you really want to be one of the many that are not permitted to cross the great chasm?
We are all prejudice in one way or another~ and only God can change your heart.
Do you want to die hard hearted?
God wants to give you a new heart, but in order to do so it will take some humbling on your part~ are you willing?

If so, His promise to you is this:

"A new heart I will give you, and a new Spirit I will put within you; and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to observe My ordinances." Ez. 36:26 & 27.

KOTN:

He is real. This I know personally, and so do millions upon millions of Christians from the beginning of Mankind.
Are you willing to find out?
Or will you reject Him?
Consider your latter end.

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:41PM

KOTN---this is what I do for a living: take care of psychiatric problems of indigent Native Americans who live on 3 reservations in an area where the winter temperatures hit 30 below zero routinely in Winter. That's what I do every darned day for my living, and I do it VERY well. The suicide rate in this area is lower since I started.

I have no idea what you do, but I doubt that it is as useful. Screw off.

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 9:57PM

We are tribal too, KOTN, and many of us wish to maintain our tribe, which has helped humanity all out of proportion to its size.

Occam's Tool| 7.28.11 @ 3:21PM

KIng,

have you checked whose won which Nobel Prizes lately? You are an ignorant asswipe.

W| 7.29.11 @ 1:58PM

King, is this how your perceive?

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 9:09PM

And wins more Nobel Prizes than any other group, including eliminating Polio and doing magnificent work on that scourge of Natives and Blacks, diabetes and hypertension.

Yup, those evil, evil Jooos...thanks for defining yourself,KOTN.

Well, at least your true colors come out---one can always tell the enemies to civilization by how they feel about Jews. The antisemites are the assholes.

Kingofthenet| 7.28.11 @ 10:52AM

Your family can't be any more 'part Jewish' than if you had relatives who were Arab would make you 'part Muslim'. There is NO Jewish race.

Occam's Tool| 7.28.11 @ 3:22PM

Wrong again, King. Judaism is a Nationality, not merely a religion. Don't define me to me, anusbreath Nazi pig.

Kingofthenet| 7.28.11 @ 4:33PM

A race is now a nationality? Learn something new every day!

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 7:52PM

Yes, it is, KOTN, You are poorly informed.
And God so loved the World, that He gave His only Son to die on the cross for the Jew and the Gentile alike. Jn. 3:16. Rom. 11.

simon templar| 7.28.11 @ 8:08PM

You liberals trolls have shown some really incredible ignorance today. You did not know judaism is a race as well as a religion? Wow. What the hell did you think a semite was? There are jews that are black and of african descent. There are semites 0r jews who are actually christian. Incredible.

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 9:04PM

Yup. There is a Jewish Nation, as Jews can join by Conversion, KOTN. Of course, circumcision for you would be equal to phallectomy, so I can understand your opposition to the Jews.

Nick| 7.28.11 @ 7:58PM

Kook of the Net is a liberal anti-Semite? Who would have guessed?

Margie| 7.28.11 @ 11:21PM

There are many anti-semites who post here, and some claim a certain Religion.

Why don't you have at them?

Nick| 7.29.11 @ 12:25AM

Margie,

I have chastised every anti-Semite I've ever seen on this site, as well as other sites. So, I'm not sure to what you are referring.

p.s. When you get a chance, I left you some responses on the Bachmann and the Pope thread.
God Bless!

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 9:02PM

Margie: Nick was engaging in the Casablanca maneuver--- that was sarcasm.

You are wonderful. However, with Catholics, perhaps Honey might work better than Vinegar? ---with the exception of Clint, who deserves the nad kick wherever possible, small though they may be.

I disagree with Catholic theology as a Jew, of course. I believe that Centralization of religious power has done them no favors. But I think your beautiful message of love (and it is, I have seen it) may go over better by, say, emphasizing the love of the sinner rather than the hatred of the sin. And I think you are wonderful, as I have seen that, too.

Margie| 7.30.11 @ 7:54PM

Point taken, but to the foul He is also foul.
When they behave like a brood of vipers~ I say so.
And a lot of these cultists are extremely nasty~ they deserve every iota of blasting that they get.
Including your pal, one of the most vile of liars, "W".

How's that for honey? :^).

RCV| 7.28.11 @ 11:59PM

There are anti-Semites of many political stripes on this site Nick. And none of us should ever let that vile poison go unchallenged. Never again!

Nick| 7.29.11 @ 12:31AM

RCV,

Yes, there are, and, no, we should not.

But, only liberals join hands with Moslem terrorists and get on freedom flotillas and attack Israelis with pipes and bats, and, then, have the nerve to be shocked when the Israelis defend themselves, by shooting them.

Most Moslems are anti-Semitic. Most liberals support anti-Semitic Moslems. Therfore, it is reasonable to believe that most liberals are either anti-Semitic, or anti-Israel, or both.

RCV| 7.29.11 @ 2:10PM

Nick - Most liberals I know -- and I live on the liberal and Jewish west side of Los Angeles -- are ardent supporters of Israel. The idiots who support the flotillas in support of terrorists are the same leftists who believe Obama is a tool of Wall Street (read "Jewish bankers" and the "Hollywood crowd" (read "Jews"), who oppose the Libyan intervention, and who believe that should face a "progressive" primary challenger -- the Kucinichs and Cynthia McKinneys, who like the PaulBots, are ahppy to line up with the terrorists.

RCV| 7.29.11 @ 2:12PM

Sorry for the fast-typing typos. Last clause should read, "...and who believe Obama should face a "progressive" primary challenger -- the Kucinichs and Cynthia McKinneys, who like the PaulBots, are happy to line up with the terrorists."

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:57PM

Dear RCV: there are 500,000 Jews in LA. Come out to Minnesota, which is also a Blue State, and you will find the ONLY reliable pro-Israel votes are Chip Cravaack and Michele Bachmann. Two of the worst antisemites in Congress---Ellison and Betty McCollum, are in the Liberal category. Of course, the worst antisemite in Congress is a Republican, but he's a Libertarian, not a Conservative.

Nick| 7.31.11 @ 9:45AM

RCV,

I think you might live in a bubble! Ha-ha!

The whole liberal world, from the U.N., down to the New York Slimes is anti-Israel. A gross generalization, I know.

If it helps, I acknowledge that there are too many anti-Semites and non-supporters of Israel on the right, okay?

RCV| 7.31.11 @ 1:34PM

The UN is indeed a mess, Nick, but that's because it's made up of nations like Syria, Iran, China, Russia, etc., not because it's "liberal". (Akminijad "liberal"?

There are many anti-semites on the left and, as you acknowledge, on the right. But I've been to too many fundraisers for Israel with my Democratic brethren to accept your generality.

All the best, friend.

W| 7.29.11 @ 7:25AM

RCV, you are offended by anti-semitism, but why not by the anti-catholic bigotry by the usual suspects on this site?

RCV| 7.29.11 @ 2:05PM

I am always offended by the anti-Catholic bigotry, and if you look at the record, I call it out every time I see it.

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:43PM

RCV,

I like you very much sir, but have you noticed how FEW Scoop Jackson types there are left in the Democratic Party on the national level?

RCV| 7.30.11 @ 2:02PM

Its true Occam, just as there are few Everett Dirksen, Jacob Javits, Tom Kuchel and Mark Hatfield types on the GOP side. The two parties have become much narrower ideologically.

Margie| 7.29.11 @ 3:09PM

How about the anti-Christian hatred and bigotry against the Word of God?

RCV| 7.29.11 @ 3:55PM

Debating theological issues is not "hatred against the Word of God." The debate you and Nick had on another post is exactly the kind of debate that is reason. Calling Catholics as a group "satanic", not real Christians, etc., and lumping in good and decent folk like John Paul II with pedophile priests is indeed hatred and bigotry.

Margie| 7.29.11 @ 4:19PM

I never said Catholics are of Satan, and that's a typical Liberal misrepresentation.

I have said that Catholicism's doctrines are Satanic. And they are.

Sorry, but I'm a Christian~ and my allegiance is to Christ~ not the Pope.

In truth, I cannot be a Christian with out denouncing Catholicism. And LOVING a Catholic means speaking the truth about how they are being lied to.

You compliment my & Nick's arguing. The reason you CAN is because he isn't one of the usual, nasty, hate filled Catholics who cares not about the truth, but only in castigating Christians who dare speak the truth from the Bible.

Why do Catholics so despise the Words of God?
God says if you reject His Words, you are rejecting Him.
So, it isn't really me they're rejecting.

"He who does not love Me does not keep My Words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me." Jn. 14:24.

RCV| 7.29.11 @ 7:17PM

Seriously, Margie, what leads you to say that "Catholics so despise the Words of God"? Do REALLY believe that Mother Teresa, or Karol Wojtyla or Nick or William F. Buckley or John Cardinal Newman or Bishop Fulton Sheen or Jack Kemp or Rudi Guiliani or Paul Johnson or Gary Wills "despise the Words of God"? Really?

Margie| 7.30.11 @ 7:57PM

That was a statement of generality from what takes place on these pages.

When presented with the actual Words of God, most of the time the vile hatred and hurling of insults is practiced by them.

You know, I know it, and so does everyone reading these pages know it.

RCV| 7.30.11 @ 10:45PM

Then why make statements of "generality" about "Catholics despising the Words of God" when you're reacting to the actions of some low-life like Clint, who professes to be Catholic, just like he professes to be a Conservative. It's hurtful to a lot of good and decent Catholics, including the ones I mentioned, who are good, decent people who love God deeply.

Margie| 7.31.11 @ 2:05AM

Why?
Because it happens to be the truth.
No more playing the victim card here.
When presented with God's Words~ the vitriol spews,
yet I'm demonized for telling the truth.
"What a wicked web we weave we practice to deceive."

RCV| 7.31.11 @ 8:01PM

How has Nick spewed vitriol? His comments have been respectful and unaccompanied by any personal invective.

Margie| 7.31.11 @ 9:17PM

I said nothing about Nock.
Knock it off, RCV.

Margie| 7.31.11 @ 9:17PM

Nick, Nock, whatever.
LOL.

W| 7.29.11 @ 6:25PM

Thank you, RCV

shipley130| 7.28.11 @ 3:05PM

America should politely refuse to give any more aid to any country. Time for nations to get their gray grapes working, or die on the vine.

canuckistani| 7.28.11 @ 3:15PM

How naive. The money to Israel and Egypt was a ransom for keeping the Suez open - you know, the oil? It was cheaper than going in and bombing stuff as we have learned in Iraq and Afghan.

Suez is more of a Euro headache now, so yes, we should back away from spending in areas that no longer have strategic value, but I still believe investing in corrupt locals is still cheaper than any military solution.
It's why we elect representatives to do the uncomfortable stuff we would not do ourselves.

Kingofthenet| 7.28.11 @ 4:39PM

ALWAYS remember 'Never Again' ONLY pertains to Jews, EVERYONE else can go to Hell!

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:45PM

Not True either, King. How many Jews died fighting for Civil Rights in the South for Blacks?

You are truly a Socialist who is in favor of a overwhelming strong Central Government---a Nationalist, if you will.

nister| 7.28.11 @ 5:22PM

The Bible tells us Jesus has two dads..anyone who objects to marriage equality blasphemes.

simon templar| 7.28.11 @ 8:09PM

Funny, jackass. Real funny.

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:54PM

Simon, G-d Bless and keep up the good work.

RCV| 7.29.11 @ 2:16PM

That is a really offensive and stupid remark, nister.

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:53PM

My Dear RCV,

You are among the finest gentlemen who blog here (I don't agree with you a lot, but that's OK). I will be thinking of you At Cape Cod next week---I miss SoCal Beaches---Cape Cod's waters in August are FREEZING!

RCV| 7.30.11 @ 11:04AM

And SoCal misses you, OT. Enjoy your trip. Cape Cod beaches are indeed not for swimming, but they are beautiful, nonetheless. I've spent a few lovely vacations there, and on Nantucket. God speed, my friend.

PolishKnight| 7.30.11 @ 8:27PM

RCV and Occam:

Here's the wikipedia info on the issue that RCV brought up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedwabne_pogrom

Basic facts:

1) Local Poles did participate in the murders AND many were executed for treason and murder. Both the local Polish army and the Soviet communists punished such collusion with execution.
2) Jan T. Gross claimed that the Poles acted alone but a more thorough investigation by the Polish government show there was German involvement although the extent is not clear. Jan agrees with the conclusion of the investigation.
3) Jews in the region colluded with the Soviet Union and helped send more than 20,000 Poles, including entire families, to Siberia and likely death.

While there is certainly blood on both sides of Jewish and Polish civilians, one thing is clear is that the Polish authorities and nearly all of the Polish people helped protect Jews. The attempt to portray the Poles as a bunch of Nazi collaborators helping to mass murder Jews and cover up the crime is untrue and insulting and far more egregious than the charge of anti-semitism directed against me (at least in my opinion.) I have only disagreed with foreign policy directives in regards to Israel and majority Jewish support of leftism while RCV and others attempt to slander the most of the Polish nation and people.

RCV| 7.31.11 @ 12:12AM

Acknowledging reality isn't "slandering the Polis Nation and people." Poland is a great nation, indeed, and the Poles have much to be proud of in the enormous contributions they have made to science, art, culture and human rights, from Copernicus, Kozsiesko, Paderewski down through Lech Waleska and Karol Wojtyla.
There is also no doubt that Poles suffered much under the Nazis, who considered them subhuman like the Jews, and that many Poles deserved the tribute Righteous Among the Nations for what they did to save Jews from persecution and death, at risk to their own lives.
But these two undeniable facts do not erase the reality of Poland's real and shameful history of antisemitism, right to the present day. Indeed, it is the continuing denial of that history that prevents many Poles -- clearly including you -- from dealing with the issue forthrightly, in the very same way that Turkish denial of the Armenian genocide and the same efforts to claim that Armenians were responsible for their shameful treatment by Turks that remains a blot on the great nation of Turkey.
It would be no different than denying America's own shameful history of racism against Blacks, and the reality that many of those same shameful attitudes persist to this day, as evidenced by some the posts on this site. That doesn't mean America is not a great nation, for it is indeed, or that the American people should not be rightly proud of their exceptional progress, generosity and unmatched contributions to liberty.
I love Poland, and in fact visit there often, especially to Krakow, my favorite city in Europe. Most young Poles I have met readily acknowledge the reality of the history I speak of. Unfortunately, many Polish-Americans refuse to do so, and those attitudes live on today.

PolishKnight| 7.31.11 @ 11:12AM

For starters, the Poles, including myself, never denied this shameful incident and YOU brought it up as an ad-hominem attack against me via my ancestry. It's not anti-semitic to point out that Jews helped mass murder 20,000 Poles as part of a holocaust against Slavs that far exceeded the Jewish holocaust by a factor of about 4 or more but simply a historical fact.

This bear repeating: YOU brought it all up, not me!

Secondly, the Poles have not denied the incident either. It was Jan who made a lot of accusations that have been shown to be untrue or unsupported sufficiently to require him to quietly edit out editions of his books.

Finally, the only government refusing to document their shameful past is Israel which has refused to come clean about their war crime against their best, and perhaps only ally in the middle east, the USA regarding the USS Liberty.

RCV| 7.31.11 @ 1:45PM

This is precisely what I mean, PK. Israel is " the only government refusing to document its shameful past.". Really? What would lead someone to single out the Jewish nation with such a bald-faced lie on its face? Israel is the ONLY country in the whole of the Middle East whose Supreme Court regularly rules against the government, where people of all faiths can worship freely and openly, where there is a thriving historical revisionism challenging the national myths of it's founding (Benny Morris, Tom Segev, et al), where there is an organized and active peace movement opposing government policies, and yet you single it out for criticism. Ask yourself why, Polish Knight? Because you blame "the Jews" for Poland's troubles?

PolishKnight| 7.31.11 @ 2:57PM

You know, I apologize for that wording. I should have said "only one" in this context.

Nonetheless, you insist that it's ok to slander Poles for the acts of a few and then turn around and ignore the similar and even worse actions of Jews at the same time and place. You brought it up, I didn't, and proved my point that perhaps anti-semitism is so rife in the modern world because it's a label that's used so casually much like the modern so-called civil rights movement overuses the race card.

Where did I blame "Jews" for Poland's troubles and what troubles specifically did I name? This is a perfect example of a double standard where you try to put words in my mouth and accuse me of racial bigotry even as you engage in precisely the same behavior openly towards others.

And FYI, The USA liberated Iraq and allowed peaceful protests against the government and probably also similar court decisions. So stop overplaying the "only democracy in the middle east" card to rationalize billions of dollars a year in US aid that the industrious Israeli's supposedly doesn't need. It's undeniable, at least to those unafraid of the anti-semite slur, that much of the radical Islamicization of the Middle East is due to the US allying with Israel.

When you don't allow an open dialogue, you invite one behind your back. The Poles who talked to you so openly and said what you wanted to hear did so precisely because those with concerns don't feel it would be productive to say anything to you. This is not just in Poland but around the world.

So whose blaming all of their problems on everyone else then?

PolishKnight| 7.31.11 @ 3:11PM

I meant to say "supposedly don't need" but changed it to doesn't because I forgot I changed Israel to "Israeli's".

This is the point where the spelling flames usually begin...

RCV| 7.31.11 @ 3:55PM

I must have missed your presence in my discussions with my Polish friends at University forums in Krakow and Warsaw. If they were telling me what I wanted to hear, they did so in front of a lot of other young Poles.

PolishKnight| 7.31.11 @ 5:24PM

Indeed, RCV, did you truly miss my presence both literally and figuratively? Challenging opposing ideas, including anti-semitic poison, is perfectly valid and necessary in a free society but simultaneously, labeling them in order to dismiss them out of hand negates that effort.

I found your opinions refreshing, stimulating and educational and thank you for the dialogue. Just as you certainly are going to look out for your interests, I need to look out for mine. You've said some nice things about Poles (even if they feel a bit backhanded). Here's my opinion about Jewish culture:

I wish I had been raised in a Jewish household since they "got it right" in my opinion regarding how to be successful as parents, educators, and members of their extended community. I respect your urge to protect your heritage.

RCV| 7.31.11 @ 6:33PM

Thanks, PK. I enjoyed the discussion as well. And I belatedly apoologize to you personally for laying into you unfairly. rather than just addressing your thoughts.

By the way, I'm not Jewish. I'm Irish-Belgian by heritage and was brought up as a Roman Catholic, although I'm now Anglican. I did grow up in a Jewish neighborhood however, precisely because my parents saw the same virtues you mention in their community.

Have you been to Poland? If not, I highly recommend it. Krakow is magical. It's truly an undiscovered Prague, and not overrun with Euroteens.

Be well.

PolishKnight| 7.31.11 @ 8:53PM

Yes, I know Krakow pretty well almost as much as native Poles. It's changed quite a bit in recent years most of them positive (the price of a decent meal certainly has shot up.) Much of that magic is due to the city still being largely native and not having bought entirely into Angliciation. (whether that's a word or not, I don't know.) Anyways, it still has a lot of local charm to it and a lot to see and do.

One of the things I admire most about Poland is their recognition of their nationality and why I respect Jews for holding onto their cultural identity. It's something that has gotten lost in the diversity melting pot in the USA where anti-semitism is just one element (and the least tolerated) among a host of racist and misandric hostility. I suppose it's not just Poland but also much of Europe (especially Eastern Europe and Scandanavia) where people tend to be polite because they might be talking to a distant cousin or someone whose related to an in-law. It seems rather incestuous but it does make the sentiment "love they brother" more meaningful.

When people have that feeling of cultural identity and closeness, they share it with visitors hence your enjoyment. They may be fascinated by strangers because they encounter a true one less often than we do and people who travel for tourism are generally on their best behavior (or should be).

Anyways, I accept your apology gracefully in the way it was given. I take personal pride in being provocative and responding accordingly while remembering that people are going to believe whatever they want to anyway, so I shouldn't get too upset about it.

Occam's Tool| 7.31.11 @ 11:52PM

The major source of Islamization in the Middle east is deriving from Iran, which became an Islamic republic because we wouldn't support our ally the Shah. Nothing to do with Israel. But thanks for playing, PK.

Here's a book for 99 cents on your kindle---it runs about $27 in paperback. I just downloaded it: History of the Jews in Russia and Poland: From the Earliest Times Until the Present Day, Simon Dubnow.

PolishKnight| 8.3.11 @ 9:49AM

I wasn't aware that the terrorists of 9-11 were from Iran although Iran is certainly a threat. In addition, Iran wasn't merely our ally, but Israel's as well. Further muddling the issue is that the USA's invasion of Iraq in the 90's was an attempt to liberate an Islamic country (Kuwait) and subsequent base in Saudi Arabia was opposed by Bin Laden.

Nonetheless, it remains pretty obvious that the Islamic world strongly resents Israel's existence and the USA's support of the state isn't helping matters.

Regarding the book. It does look interesting and I'll download it but also would like a text from the Slavic point of view.

Margie| 7.30.11 @ 7:59PM

Uh oh. Cape Cod?
I hope you don't bump into any of the Kennedy clan.

Stuart Koehl| 7.28.11 @ 8:10PM

A slight correction: the Jews were NEVER driven out by the Romans. After the Jewish War of 66-70, the Jews remained on the land, and Jerusalem was rebuilt as a Jewish city, albeit without the Temple. After Bar Kochba's Rebellion of 135, the Jews were barred from Jerusalem (except on the 9th of Ab, to mourn the burning of the Temple), and the city was renamed Aelia Capitolina. The province of Judaea was incorporated into Syria and renamed Syria Palestina. But Jews remained on the land all the same. There were Jews there during the Byzantine period, and after the Muslim Conquest; there were Jews in Jerusalem when it was sacked by the Crusaders; there were Jews on the land when the Crusaders were driven out; Jews continued to live in the Holy Land and return to the Holy Land throughout the Middle Ages, the Renaissance, the Reformation, the Age of Reason, and down into the 19th century. When the Zionists showed up in the late 19th century, they were just one more wave of Jews, who differed from the other only in their objective--the reestablishment of the Jewish State on the land which God had promised to them.

Naturalborn Texicanette| 7.28.11 @ 9:10PM

Sorry folks. You don't get to decide whether or not there is a Jewish people or a Jewish nation.

God's chosen people were and are JEWISH. That's all I need to know.......

Mister Grady| 7.29.11 @ 7:36PM

I would encourage you to study Galatians. It torpedoes philo-semitism, as does other scripture. The Israel of God is not physical, but spiritual. It's not a physical place on earth, nor a race of people. Christ's Kingdom is not of this world. He said it himself. Dispensationalists make the same mistakes regarding Jewish privilege that the pharisees and saducees of Jesus's day made.

Romans 2:28 - 29
"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

Galatians 3:28
"There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Matthew 3:9
"And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham."

And again, read all of Galatians. (Was that book left out of the Scofield bible?) The allegory of Sarah and Hagar sinks dispensationalism.
__________________

Antisemitism, like all racism, is sin. It is not more sinful than other racism, nor less sinful than other racism. We are all God's creatures. The crucifixion of Jesus Christ was a collaborative effort between Jews and Gentiles. We were all in on it and no one group is more nor less culpable than another, since he died because of sin, and sin entered man thousands of years before there was a temporary division between jew and gentile. But in the end, as Christ said, no one was taking his life, rather, he was laying it down willingly.

We are all, in our human nature, in the same boat: filled with sin. No privileges for any group. Not for Jews, and not for Gentiles. God does not play favorites. That's in the Bible.

The Jewish race was God's chosen people to ultimately bring Christ into the world. And his death and resurrection sealed the deal for all all of humanity. The division ended then and there. The first generation of Christianity had to work this issue out, since these people (jews and gentiles) were born into that divided world, and old habits die hard). And as the NT repeatedly teaches - emphatically teaches - is that there is no longer any privileged race of people. Those, and only those, of Christ are Israel: converted gentiles and converted ethnic jews combined (the latter group is that remnant written of by Paul).

Christians should pray for the conversion of all lost people, including Jews, atheists, pagans, pretend Christians, Catholics, et cetera. The is only one plan of salvation. It is the same plan for all of humanity.

The Bible teaches that God already gave everything to physical Israel that he had promised, and it also teaches that certain covenants were conditional. The ultimate Biblical promise is the one in Genesis, where God promises there would be salvation and a final conquering of evil.

Don't worship a race of people, and don't try to justify racism by saying it's okay when it's not your own race that you are exalting. Worship the Lord, and only the Lord. Exalt the Lord, and only the Lord.

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:49PM

Grady---with all due respect,sir, please note what happens to Nations that Curse Israel---the real one. They get thrown into barbarism (Arabs and Persians), their wombs dry up (Germans, Japanese, Italians), they lose political and world power (French), they get crushed under barbarous invaders (Europe 2030-2040). Watch what happens, Mr. Grady, and remember that G-d does not break his promises, nor speak in riddles.

Mister Grady| 7.29.11 @ 10:43PM

Occam, you addressed me, but you seem not to be addressing anything I wrote.

Would you mind telling me where in my post I advocated "cursing Israel"?

I was speaking about Biblical issues. Not political ones. I have no direct Biblical reason to support the nation state Israel. I do, however, have a practical and political reason to support the nation state Israel above those that surround it (though not above my own nation, the U.S.). But again, I was not speaking about the practical political aspect of the nation state Israel. Only the Biblical one.

And where did I assert that God breaks his promises?

I did, in fact, indicate that God had fulfilled all covenants specifically to the Jewish race alone that Biblical text would show he is obliged to - it says as much in the Biblical text itself. I'm sorry, but that is a fact, even if you cannot accept it. A.D. 70 happened, just like Christ said it would. The death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus ushered in a new era of salvation, not by racial privilege, but by His grace. There is now no longer any spiritual division between Jews and gentiles, nor any special purpose for the Jewish race. It does not mean he does not love Jews. He certainly does. No more and no less than non-Jews. For God so loved THE WORLD...

And where did I quote any riddles?

I don't know whether that's a non sequitur, a straw man, or both. Not a very bright thing to say.

And since people like yourself believe that "cursing" the nation state of Israel leads to God's wrath, I have to wonder where all of the blessings are that the U.S. should supposedly have by supporting Israel - as we have been by far it's staunchest ally since its inception after WWII. Is our 80 years of liberal governance and societal decay a part of that blessing? Was 911? Is Barack Obama the Lord's gift to us for always being in Israel's corner? God has let this nation become blinded by its own sin, and that is why we are at where we are at. We brought this upon ourselves.

And again, it is fine for the U.S. to be an ally of Israel. I believe it should be. It is a civilized democracy surrounded by some very repugnant cultures. It is not perfect, nor could any nation in our fallen world ever be, but it is the only pocket of Western Civilization in that entire region of the world, so we should therefore support it. As far as I'm concerned, Obama can pound sand when it comes to Israel withdrawing to its 1967 borders, but I am also not an Israel-phile.

At any rate, I can understand that you don't like hearing that Jews are not any more special than gentiles. It is just such an attitude that caused most of the Jews - past, present, and future - to reject Christ, but I rejoice at least in that there is a remnant who do not suffer from such blindness. Most gentiles reject Christ as well, so again, Jews are no worse in this respect than anyone else.

Now, I'm not going to argue with you about the nation state of Israel as far as the Biblical perspective is concerned. You are certainly free to believe what you believe, as am I, but I hope you can understand that I'll not be taking any lectures from a non-Christian on what the Bible does and does not say. I'll guarantee you that I know scripture better than you do, and since I also believe in the New Testament, I have the full source of understanding on the matter.

God is not a racist.

Margie| 7.31.11 @ 2:21AM

One question, Mr. Grady:

What do you think God means when He says this~

"Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brethren: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in, and so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will banish ungodliness from Jacob";
"and this will be My covenant with them when I take away their sins." Rom. 11:25-27.

Is this physical Israel or not?
If it isn't, then it means you'd have to separate the Jews from 'Israel".
And it says ALL Israel will be saved.
That is wonderful, is it not?

RCV| 7.31.11 @ 1:49PM

God didn't say those words, Margie. A human being, St Paul, wrote them in a letter to his friends in Rome. St Paul never claimed to be speaking for God. He knew that would be blasphemy.

RCV| 7.31.11 @ 6:35PM

All right, I'll come clean. This last comment was ssimply meant to stimulate a good discussion on Biblical scholarship.

Margie| 7.31.11 @ 9:13PM

Paul was appointed by God to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, and had the Spirit of God in Him.

I'd say that's good enough for me. And it's good enough for all Christians who know the Lord.

Nick| 8.1.11 @ 1:48AM

RCV,

Saint Paul called himself an Apostle, which means one who is sent as a messanger.

Since Paul claimed that it was Christ who sent him, and also claimed that Jesus Christ was both Son of God, and God; Paul was claiming to speak for God.

Paul also acknowledged that there were members of the Church who were prophets, who had received their gift from the Holy Spirit. Prophets, also, speak for God.

Is this scholarly enough for you? Since, um, I'm not a scholar! Ha-ha!
God Bless!

Margie| 7.31.11 @ 2:39AM

I think the Israel of God is referring to Jesus?

Also, I found this concerning the restoration of Israel, including its people.

""In those days and in that time, says the LORD, the people of Israel and the people of Judah shall come together, weeping as they come; and they shall seek the LORD their God.
They shall ask the way to Zion, with faces turned toward it, saying, 'Come, let us join ourselves to the LORD in an everlasting covenant which will never be forgotten.'" Jer. 50:4 & 5.

Occam's Tool| 8.1.11 @ 12:03AM

A Plus, Biblical Literature and Life, Ambrose Edens, Texas Christian University, 1980, Mr. Grady.

As for riddles: you dance on tightropes to get your opinion across, and are not logically consistent. Jesus was a Jew. All the prophets were Jews. the majority of the New Testament and all of the Old Testament were written by Jews. Seems philo-semitism is justified. You annoy Mr. Grady, and you presume too much on yourself and your imperfect understanding. Margie understands much more than you do. When you've studied New Testament from one of the premier Protestant Schools in the US from a Professor of Biblical Studies at Brite Divinity School, lecture to me.

I understand that Margie thinks that I will not be saved as a practicing Jew, nor do you. But Margie also understands the reason FOR philosemitism. You don't. More fool you.

PolishKnight| 7.31.11 @ 3:17PM

Sigh. If only the USA enjoyed prosperity for it's financial and political support of Israel. Instead, it's not that far behind those who cursed it...

First they came for the Europeans.
Then they came for the Americans.
And then...

RCV| 7.31.11 @ 3:51PM

A good deal of the money we've given to Israel comes right back to us in military purchases. Those dollars have employed a lot of US workers.

PolishKnight| 7.31.11 @ 8:43PM

Are you serious? For someone who prides himself on his intellect, you're either making an incredibly intellectually dishonest argument or you don't understand basic economics:

If you give someone money and then they come back and pay you for work, you aren't enjoying a benefit. You could just as easily keep the money yourself and spend it on something else.

In addition, you have ignored my observation that arming Israel (at American expense even if they get a fraction back in "jobs") hasn't helped the states very much.

Occam's Tool| 7.31.11 @ 11:56PM

REally, PK? The military intelligence we got about Soviet weaponry from the Israelis hasn't helped us very much?

You dig deeper an deeper into a hole, PK. You've been reading too many reviews of Jan Craphead on Amazon. The Israelis have been invaluable to the US from a military intelligence perspective.

You usually make sense, PK. But on this topic your true colors show through. Go off and support Sharia. Child rapes and beheadings are just up your alley, I guess.

There are a lot of Poles not like you.

PolishKnight| 8.2.11 @ 3:52PM

I was addressing the implied claim that the USA wasn't really subsidizing Israel because they spent some of the money on US weaponry.

Regarding supporting Sharia. Talk to Steven Speilberg and George Soros. As I said, real smart!

JOHNSPEAKS| 7.28.11 @ 9:40PM

Why is Israel afarid to use there nuclear weapons on the Arabs and Persians and settle this land dispute once and for all? -Might Makes Right-!

RCV| 7.29.11 @ 2:13PM

Because they are smart, patient people, with a concern for humanity ... unlike the Arabs and Persians.

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 8:51PM

The Israelis are actually bound to a great deal by the humanitarian principles of Judaism. Correct, RCV.

I am not sure how long this will last, because I expect a WMD on the US in the next few years, and we ARE the types to use Carpet Bombing. I don't expect Israel to go bananas, but we might.

Occam's Tool| 7.29.11 @ 9:37PM

Aid to Israel started significantly with the 1973 War, and Richard Nixon. Before that, not much, as the State Department was, and is, Arabist. But the israelis have done what they can for the US, as evidenced by a few examples:

During the Israeli-Egyptian War of Attrition, Israeli commandos captured a Soviet-built P-12 radar station in an operation code-named Rooster 53. Previously-unknown information was subsequently shared with the U.S.

When the French government imposed an arms embargo on Israel in 1967, Israeli spies procured designs of the Dassault Mirage 5 from a Swiss-Jewish engineer in order to build the IAI Kfir. These designs were also shared with the United States.

POST American| 7.30.11 @ 10:22PM

---------------------BTW-----------------------

Are one and all aware that its the KEY
Globalist strategy to create these highly
compacted, schizophrenically, diametrically
opposed entities ---almost unknown in
earlier, pre-bankster/Globalist history.

Consider --Korea, the divided Germany,
Northern Ireland, even Cuba.

One to generate conflict, conflict to be exploited,
in every major region of the world.

---What a problem --and coincidence!

-------------HUAC meets NUREMBERG------------

-------------------THE REMEDY-------------------

Kevin Dunn| 8.17.11 @ 8:27AM

The Jews were not driven out of Israel by the Romans, though their society was badlky damaged by them. The Jews were driven out of the Holy Land by the Mohammetans in the 7th Century.

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Timothy L. Pennell| 7.28.11 @ 6:47AM

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