The American Spectator : Don't Fumble the Debt Ceiling

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Don’t Fumble the Debt Ceiling

By Jed Babbin on 7.18.11 @ 6:09AM

If you try to pass “Cut, Cap and Balance,” you’ll fail. You’ll strengthen Obama’s hand and take the blame for any downgrade or default.

Republicans haven’t gone wobbly on the debt ceiling debate, but in the House they are laying a trap for themselves that will leave them holding the bag for any downgrade or default on America’s sovereign debt.

President Obama, as he indicated Friday, still demands that significant tax hikes be a part of any debt ceiling deal. But as Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said on Thursday, “Republicans will not be reduced to being the tax collectors for the Obama economy … We won’t be seduced into calling a bad deal a good one.” So far, so good.

But there’s a lot of loose Republican talk — magnified a hundredfold by the media — that we shouldn’t worry about a default. That plays into Obama’s hand. He’s perfectly willing to drive our economy into a downgrade or a default as long as he can blame it on Republicans. Conservatives mustn’t position themselves as fiscal “dead-enders.” They have to force Obama to avert these disasters on their terms, and they can.

The threatened downgrade will make more costly all direct U.S. borrowing immediately and indirect borrowing (such as guaranteed mortgages) soon after. The interest we’ll have to pay on government debt will rise — perhaps dramatically — adding tens or hundreds of billions to the national debt. The value of the dollar will be reduced by inflation causing accelerated borrowing and increased unemployment. If there’s a default, even for a day, it will wreak havoc in our economy for many years to come.

To all my friends among the House members, please take a moment to think about how the public sees you. Don’t ask each other or your political consultants. Ask some people back home. You’re still seen as principled conservatives, but you’re flirting with being labeled “bumblers.” You voted down a bill that would have authorized Obama’s Libya adventure and — on the same day — voted for another one that funded it. Have you made up your minds yet?

You were elected to reduce the cost and size of government. You’ve taken some significant votes on Obamacare and the Ryan budget plan, but Obama and Senate Dems have prevented you from really achieving anything. On the debt ceiling you have the opportunity to do something significant that they can’t entirely stop. But that’s not what you’re doing.

The “Cut, Cap and Balance” plan is almost precisely what I warned against in this column a week ago. I say “almost” because it’s not a Democratic trap Republicans are falling into. It’s worse: a self-inflicted wound.

“Cut, Cap and Balance” cuts only $111 billion in this year’s spending — so small inside $14.3 trillion in debt as to be ridiculous — and then promises caps on future spending and a balanced budget constitutional amendment. But caps on future spending are susceptible to future congressional spending hikes. The BBA — as Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) said yesterday — may not be ratified by the states for a decade. A balanced budget amendment is a great idea, but it’s not going to do anything to help fix this month’s debt ceiling crisis.

And then there’s more bumbling. After listening to Republican Study Committee Chairman Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) on Fox News Sunday yesterday, you would have understood that the Cut, Cap and Balance bill actually includes a balanced budget amendment. But it doesn’t. I received a copy of the CCB legislation — HR-2560 — late Sunday afternoon. It requires that a BBA has to be passed before a debt ceiling increase, but it doesn’t include one.

You gotta be kidding me.

Why waste a critical week debating the need for a balanced budget amendment that won’t be voted on and a cap on spending that any future Congress can change? Why not spend those days working on a plan the House can pass that will actually solve the debt ceiling crisis?

You can do better, and you must. There’s a bill that you can write and pass this week. It’s in three parts.

Part one is Sen. McConnell’s original plan to raise the debt ceiling in three stages and force up to six votes on both the debt ceiling increases and spending cuts, shifting the political blame for increasing the national debt to Obama and congressional Democrats. It’s brilliant but it doesn’t work without the other two parts.

(McConnell’s “Plan B” isn’t a good idea. It proposes a congressional commission that will be a vehicle for tax hikes, not massive spending cuts.)

Part two would add to McConnell’s original plan specific spending cuts — as a precondition to each increase in the debt ceiling — in a ratio of $3 in cuts for every $1 in debt ceiling increase. You know the list of programs that should be cut in dozens of agencies. Some agencies shouldn’t just be cut: zero their budgets out altogether. Obama wants another $400 billion in defense cuts without basing that on what threats exist now or are foreseeable in the next decade. Before a thorough analysis is done, no further cuts should be made. How about taking that amount — and more — from the Departments of Education, Interior, Health and Human Services, Labor and such?

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About the Author

Jed Babbin served as a Deputy Undersecretary of Defense under George H.W. Bush. He is the author of several bestselling books including Inside the Asylum and In the Words of Our Enemies. You can follow him on Twitter @jedbabbin.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (189) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Timothy L. Pennell| 7.18.11 @ 6:35AM

Look. The only plan out there, right now, is Krauthammer's. Send that POS a Bill with $500 Billion in Cuts, and $500 Billion in Debt Ceiling. TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT! That will give everyone, something like 100 Days to come up with something more long term. NO MORE RUSH JOBS. That's how we got the Stimulus SLUSH FUND. That's how we got OBAMACARE. And, now, this Marxist SON OF A B*TCH, is out there saying "We have a chance to do something BIG".
NEVER LET A CRISIS GO TO WASTE..
Where's HIS plan? He SAYS that he's thinking about CUTS. What cuts? He SAYS that he's thinking about ENTITLEMENT REFORM.
Where's his Plan?
His last "PLAN" - a Budget - was voted on in the Senate this year. It got ZERO votes. It was shot down 98-0. He doesn't wanna cut ANYTHING. In fact, he just got done saying that we need this Debt Ceiling raised so he can start SOME NEW PROGRAMS.
Stop coming when he calls. There's no need to talk to HIM. Jay Carney says that "The President doesn't need a plan, because he doesn't have a Vote".
Fine. If he doesn't have a PLAN, and he doesn't have a VOTE, WHO CARES what he has to say?
Don't ever forget WHO spent us in to this DEBACLE.
These are HIS DEFICITS. This is HIS DEBT.
Send up what YOU THINK IS RIGHT, and the H*LL with this guy.
He's destroying the Country. And he's doing it ON PURPOSE.

Handy| 7.18.11 @ 7:07AM

Go get 'em, tiger. My thoughts exactly, but Krauthammer's plan is also a cave-in.

masly | 7.18.11 @ 12:24PM

The obvious bias by MSM CHANGES, at the margin, the votes of those always malleable citizens, enough to result in tainted---nay, STOLEN!---elections!
I am a 28 years old doctor, mature and beautiful.and now I am seeking a good man who can give me real love , so i got a username Andromeda2002 on--s'e'ek'c'ou'ga'r.c óm--.it is the first and best club for y'ounger women and old'er men, or older women and y'ounger men,to int'eract with each other. Maybe you wanna ch'eck 'it out or tell your friends!

Barney Frank| 7.21.11 @ 1:42AM

Dr. Lydia Masly: Are you a gay prostitute?

snipelee| 7.18.11 @ 3:16PM

Here's an idea. Let the debt limit expire. Who cares about Moodys and their ilk- they are part of the problem (see mortgage crisis) - ignore them. The grading systems are meaningless to the size and quality of sovereign debt - USA - still the safest place to stash cash on earth! Continue to issue bonds are whatever interest rate we choose - and guess what - they will be purchased.

Elron H.| 7.18.11 @ 4:09PM

Ron Paul's new TV ad opposes fluoridation of drinking water

CHRIS TOMLINSON

The Associated Press

AUSTIN, Texas - Republican presidential hopeful Ron Paul is using his first campaign television ad to promote his long-time opposition to the fluoridation of our water supply.

In the ad released Thursday and set to run in early primary states, the Texas congressman criticizes both Republicans and Democrats for striking deals in the past and says Congress should not compromise this time. Paul also notes that he always has voted against fluoridation.

"In the '80s, they did it all over the place, Democrats promising to stop it, but delivering only more and more fluoride that disrupts our precious bodily fluids ," the ad says. "The '90s brought more compromises, more mineralized water, more sterility ...The declining birth-rate of western democracies is proof-positive of this Illuminati plot to sell us out to the Elders of Zion and their allies in the Sixth Dimension.

Will our party's leaders repeat the mistakes of the past?"

The Tea Party Rebellion Defecates.

Roll Over.

Handy| 7.18.11 @ 5:46PM

You are a delightful nut-case.

Brigadier Jack Ripper (Sterling Hayden) pointed out this nefarious scheme a long time ago in Dr. Strangelove. Ripper was right back then, and Paul is right now.

It's a feminist plot.

As an obvious aside, libs like you don't defecate. That is precisely why you are so full of it.

Handy| 7.18.11 @ 5:46PM

You are a delightful nut-case.

Brigadier Jack Ripper (Sterling Hayden) pointed out this nefarious scheme a long time ago in Dr. Strangelove. Ripper was right back then, and Paul is right now.

It's a feminist plot.

As an obvious aside, libs like you don't defecate. That is precisely why you are so full of it.

Alan Brooks| 7.18.11 @ 10:43PM

I want Obama to win because I do NOT want another Bushclone, or a Doleclone, or a McCainclone to be elected next year. The GOP will probably win in 2016 but I want to delay such an outcome for as long as possible-- perhaps by that time you will find another winner to run for president..

Alan Brooks| 7.18.11 @ 10:53PM

The Tea Rebellion Suffocates.
Carpe Doom

Clint| 7.18.11 @ 6:38AM

Obama's 2012 Campaign Slogan: "Let's Fool The Sucker Voters One More Time"

Actually:
" If the debt ceiling is not increased, the Treasury can prioritize interest and debt payment to avoid a default and essentially put the government on a stringent pay-as-you-go basis. Would that involve extreme cuts in government spending? Certainly. But it could be done, if it had to.

Let's remember that the Treasury still rakes in quite a bit of money in revenues — it took in $604 billion (seasonally adjusted) in the third quarter of 2010. In FY 2010 the annual debt service was some $414 billion, working out to an average of about $104 billion per quarter. Although the numbers won't be quite the same going forward, the debt service will soak up only about one-sixth of the incoming revenues."

The Tea Party Rebellion Escalates.

Rise Up.

Alan Brooks| 7.18.11 @ 10:52PM

The Tea Party Suffocates

Melvin| 7.18.11 @ 6:53AM

I'm not an economist, but why isn't anyone slapping the dog squeeze out of Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid for not passing multiple budgets?
If the Democrats would have passed the budgets as directed in the US Constitution, we wouldn't even be having this debt ceiling debate.
Besides does anyone know if there is any Constitutional enforcement of not passing a budget?

YeloStalyn| 7.18.11 @ 10:19AM

This is something I've wondered about. What good is a Constitutional provision demanding that the budget passed be balanced when their not even willing to pass one that's not balanced?

Shamus| 7.18.11 @ 11:12AM

Democrats are finally getting what they want. The road to serfdom is adding more lanes.

Have you considered| 7.18.11 @ 4:32PM

There is no constitutional requirement for a budget. I believe what you are referring to is a statute that was passed in 1974.

In the Constitution, there is this language at Article 1, Sec 9:

""No money shall be drawn from the treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law; and a regular statement and account of receipts and expenditures of all public money shall be published from time to time.""

Where they do fail is in the Published from time to time. They never detail expenditures, they give broad categories of spending, but no details as required.

Handy| 7.18.11 @ 7:03AM

People do want results, Mr. Babbin. They are sick and tired of Washington, DC. They don't want McConnell's "elegant plan" no matter how much of your pretty icing is on it. Perhaps you should get outside the beltway a little more often, yourself.

Obama is wearing very thin. His refusal to be specific on cuts is maddening. First, we need a balanced operating budget (not including interest and principle repayments). The House has done its job, but the Senate refuses to do its part.

No increase in the debt ceiling is required. It would just be an invitation for more spending above the current baseline. Keeping the debt ceiling is the only way to ensure that spending doesn't balloon.

Any capitulation will not put Obama and the Democrats in the hot seat. It would serve only to backfire on the Republicans when, inevitably, the debt ceiling rises by that $2.4 Trillion and inflation really kicks in as the Federal Reserve will be the only purchaser of Treasury "Securities."

Something to keep in mind. If Democtrats seem to like a plan, as they do McConnell's, it is bad for the country.

A pox on McConnell's groveling ploy and your attempt to put lipstick on it.

PS. Any serious discussion about entitlements should not take place in the middle of a budget/deficit/debt debate.

Handy| 7.18.11 @ 7:18AM

I forgot to mention that taking a House vote on Cut, Cap and Balance is a tremendous idea, even if it does not pass. Here's why.

Members would be put on record, and those voting nay should be defeated soundly next time. If it does pass and goes to the Senate we would get a chance to evaluate those weasels as well.

Timothy L. Pennell| 7.18.11 @ 8:08AM

We don't need SYMBOLISM. We need to CUT SPENDING.
Period.

CrackerHound| 7.18.11 @ 11:02AM

Wrong Handy....We expect results not to have "members be put on record". We cannot trust our reps to do better next time and have the status quo continue. We cannot survive the status quo.

The only acceptable outcome is DEEP cuts and preferrably NO increase in the debt limit. If necessary to get something actually done, a modest increase in the limit would be acceptable just to keep things going and allowing for the votes to get it passed.

I agree with your previous post:

Handy| 7.18.11 @ 7:03AM
[[[No increase in the debt ceiling is required. It would just be an invitation for more spending above the current baseline. Keeping the debt ceiling is the only way to ensure that spending doesn't balloon]]]]

Babbin was correct in his analysis on Cut, Cap and Balance....there's no amendment in the bill (plan)...and the cuts are too miniscule.

USSAlabama| 7.18.11 @ 11:39AM

Cracker, sure we want results, and the House (and GOP) are at a distinct disadvantage WRT the White House and Senate.

A realization of that is essential. That's why the 'generic Republican' HAS to win 2012.

Dave | 7.18.11 @ 7:36PM

Look, kids, I have no earthly idea whether we're going to end up with a cap, cut and balance -- cap, trap and pray or just a bill that says: DANGER: DEEP DUNG AHEAD.

Actually, if we end up getting anything remotely resembling serious, credible cuts in this hideous spending spree these radical libs have tracked us toward, it will be no credit due the mainstream media hacks populating national print and television. Case in point:

Just watched Fox New Sunday this past weekend. From what I saw, the Obama bench really doesn't have much to howl about. It’s been several months since I checked out that program, but like comparing an evolving TV sit-com from season 1 to 3, it’s apparent to mine eyes and ears that the self proclaimed fair and balanced Fox News discussion program, panel and all, has evolved into another “plant the conservative on a hot seat and keep pressing them over and over on the same set-up questions while tossing Tootsie Pops to the morning's designated liberal." I mean, do you think for even one fraction of a nano-second Chris Wallace would have the stones to ask Michelle Obama ..."are you a flake?" That's the question he asked Michele Bachmann three Sundays ago. Obviously the first names are similar in spelling, but in Bachmann's case Wallace's penalty for being a wise a-s was merely being on the receiving end of: "Well, Chris, I'd probably be offended." Queen Michelle, on the other hand, might have cut off his broccoli. Or worse.

So once again, we're left with the same ol' question: Is there, indeed, selective bias in the mainstream media? Well, is there? (chirp-chirp-chirp)

I don’t know, maybe it was being able to judge what I saw yesterday and over the last two Sundays with how I remember those initial Fox shows. Honestly, I wasn’t sure if I was watching Davy Gregory's "Meet The Partisan Press" or Grandpa Schieffer on "Deface The Nation", drooling over how wonderful Hope and Change has worked out. At the end of Fox's show, I felt like I’d seen Chris Wallace morph into “Daddy Mike”. Even their panel discussions are showing a snippier side with Juan Williams having now learned the art of making crinkly faces when a conservative is trying to make their point. He's starting to make Eleanor Clift look like Christina Aguliera. It appears Guano Juano forgot who saved his keister when the socialist goon squad at NPR made him the company port-o-potty earlier this year. But that's often how the left repays its favors. The Godfather would not be pleased.

I don't have any insider knowledge, but maybe Fox's King Roger signed him to one of those no-cut, no trade contracts. Then again, nothing like what I saw this past Sunday goes over their fair and balanced air unless word gets filtered down from Mt. St. Ailes. I suppose when you take the broader show biz view, it’s all about cheesy confrontations and getting those White House party invites reinstated to the A-list. Wouldn't want to miss the chance to rub elbows with Jay-Z or Ms. Whoopie.

The good news is, now I have THREE Sunday news shows to avoid like a case of crabs. But, HEY, don’t think I’m just going to sit around and veg-out. Noooo, not me. This weekend I’ll be out in the garage re-stringing my fly swatter. It’s a bit more challenging. And without the icky smell.

Handy| 7.19.11 @ 1:41AM

Excellent!!! On all points.

If Brit Hume isn't there, I don't watch, He is the only one who wont put up with the guano that Juano slings.

Chris Wallace is a big disappointment.

Patriot| 7.21.11 @ 1:48AM

You're right...Fox is losing it...Hannity and Greta both thought Casey Anthony was innocent !
O'Reilly kind of stood tall, but he let Geraldo threaten Bernie Goldberg for daring to state that
Gerry is a racist....High fives to Bernie Goldberg for being one of the few media types to realize that Casey Anthony is a child-murdering slut.

YeloStalyn| 7.18.11 @ 10:23AM

Why not discuss entitlements now? After all, they make up the vast portion of our budget and are also the largest contributors to our debt. Sure, we can cut departments, cut waste, etc... but any savings we make there will quickly evaporate if we don't do something about SS/Medicare. However, if we do something with these two programs we could (although we shouldn't) continue to fund other departments and waste for a very long time. That says to me that waste is not the problem... A problem, sure... but not THE problem.

Handy| 7.18.11 @ 10:55AM

Entitlements are the scourge that will bring us down. Everything else pales by comparison, and that is why they must not be jumbled up with a short term squabble.

No, the merits and demerits of Social Security and Medicare should be debated on principled grounds, not merely quantitative ones. They are not going to be substantially reformed any time soon, so they shouldn't be part of any short-term fix. Real, long-term solutions are what are needed.

YeloStalyn| 7.18.11 @ 11:39AM

It doesn't take but 5 minutes to show that SS is unConstitutional and wrong on merit. There's no reason, in a reasonable world, that it can't be fixed now. Thus, highlighting the REAL problem. That problem is not the debt/deficit debate, or entitlements, or anythign financial... it's CHARACTER. The character of our elected officials. What does it say about us, and them, that we expect them to take a year to figure out how to chop SS and dig up the roots to kill the damnable thing? Hell, I can write a bill that does it, fairly, in about 10 minutes. Straight forward, to the point, and no strings attached. But we know we'll never get such governing again. And that is the problem. It's also the reason the young TEA candidates are such a breath of fresh air. These freshman congressmen who "don't get how things are done," want to go in, do what they were elected to do, and get on down the road. The establishment (and us, by and large, by our exceptance of such "normalcy") however want to road block that because doing somethign so straight forward would undermine their ability to lord over us.

Shame on the politicians... death to use for electing them over and over.

CrackerHound| 7.18.11 @ 11:17AM

Absoultely Yelo!

The problem is a government that has grown beyond what The Constitution allows.

We not only need to NOT raise taxes, we should DEMAND that all payroll taxes are eliminated (taxes yes, but not confiscation based on some arbitrary rules).

The original Tea Party was about taxation without representation. Our tax dollars are used to fund illegal activity by our representatives. Redistribution of income, slush funds, financining half the governments of the world are not in the constitution nor approved by the majority of Americans.

Taxed Enough Already!

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 7.18.11 @ 7:04AM

The Republicans appear content to come up with unworkable ultimatums they feel will help them avoid blame.

So far we've observed the Republicans make a huge issue of spending, only to come back and agree to a silly plan that actually increased spending 3.3 billion.

Cut, cap and balance sounds good but it was hatched way too late in the process. This could be their next campaign mantra but we are a couple of weeks away from a default on the debt.

If they need to be convinced of how stupid default is they should remember that Obama himself voted against a rise in the debt ceiling.

The real problem as this article points out is inarticulate strategy. Absolutes are losers at this point in the game. What most people fail to realize is that the debt limit was reached May the 2nd as predicted. Since then, Treasury Secretary Tim. Geithner has been looting the Civil Service Retirement Fun and the Federal Employees Thrift Savings Plan to make payments. Many federal employees remain unaware that the government they work for is looting their retirement funds which are essentially their private property. All this is being done without any process whatsoever.

Here's what the Republicans heard in a House Conference on Friday:
http://www.theatlanticwire.com.....ing/40066/
In a presentation to the House Republican Conference on Friday, Jay Powell, a former Under Secretary at the Treasury Department under George H.W. Bush and a visiting scholar at the Bipartisan Policy Center, laid out just what would happen if a deal isn't reached.

On August 3, according to Powell's presentation, the federal government would be on the hook for $32 billion in committed spending, including $23 billion in Social Security checks, $500 million in federal worker salaries, $1.4 billion owed to Defense Department vendors and $100 million in refunds the IRS owes to businesses. On the same day, the government will take in only $12 billion in revenue, giving the government a $20 billion cash deficit. By August 15, when the federal government is on the hook for a $29 billion interest payment, the cash shortfall will have grown to $74 billion—and possibly more, if interest rates on U.S. debt rises.

The presentation, according to several sources in the room at the time, was aimed at conveying the seriousness of the moment. Recent warnings from Moody's and Standard & Poor's that they could downgrade the nation's debt have underscored the danger a default poses. It's a message Republicans on both sides of Capitol Hill have been trying to drive home to their members.

"There are serious repercussions for the country if the debt limit is not raised and it's important that members have information on what we may be facing. The aim is not to scare anyone but the facts are frightening," said a top Senate Republican aide.

Paul Nelson| 7.18.11 @ 10:17PM

Let us sell some of those bonds in the "lock box" or don't those bond count against the debt ceiling?

Chef Schnauzer| 7.18.11 @ 7:15AM

It appears that there are several HOUSE leaders who understand what it means to negotiate from strength. (pay attention here McConnell - this is a life lesson) It makes me want to snivel in unison with the speaker. Ignore the RINO McConnell, ignore the republican practice of the past of negotiating away self proclaimed values in an effort to be liked (I guess) or get a spot on the Brinkley show or who really knows why for the first time in ages we can point to an actual HOUSE republican backbone. Stand firm and let McConnell's traitorous plan fail. Go away McConnell.

David Wilhelms| 7.18.11 @ 10:54PM

Ummm, Chef, old buddy? Not that I think you're stuck in the past or anything because I do but David Brinkley hasn't been on the air since 1997 and he died in 2003. So if anyone's going to be on the Brinkley show, it's liable to be a bit on the macabre side.

But I do have a couple of questions on McConnell's plan:
1. Doesn't it just postpone the inevitable which is anathema to the posters here?
2. For all of the hand-wringing and whining about an Imperial Presidency and all of the alleged hauteur and arrogance of Obama, doesn't McConnell further cede initiative if not more power to the Executive?
3. What does it solve besides giving everyone involved on both sides of the aisle finger-wagging rights?

Carol| 7.18.11 @ 7:27AM

Jed Babbin:

I'm hearing so many different things to do concerning the Debt Ceiling and am not smart enough to know what to do.

Do you have any friends in the GOP? Call them up and talk to them about your plan. You have to get to the people that will make the decision.

Mimi| 7.18.11 @ 7:58AM

The 'PROBLEM" Carol is beautifully described, by Timothy Pennell and Bill H. O'Stalin posts.
The blame in reaching the DEBT LIMIT is only caused by the DEMS over-spending. They can't weasel out of the TRUTH!
Why do you think they have waited this long...to the last minute.....And to steal to keep us going since May 2nd is downright CRIMINAL....another "picture" of their corruption! It all makes their bargaining for TAX increase ridiculous...DO THEY know not what they have done???? Talk about WEAK and SPINELESS .... they have been that and way more. We have GIVEN the KEY to our wealth and liberty to BAD stewards. ALL will know this well...2012 can't arrive soon enough!

TheRightIsAnythingBut| 7.18.11 @ 10:55PM

I'm sure you wouldn't recognize the truth even if it bit your doubtless wide-of-beam derriere.

martin j smith| 7.18.11 @ 7:41AM

repubs have to offer a plan that a) shows they want to avoid a crisis, b) that does as little damage as possible to the economy and c) comes with a demand that the Socialists off a better one if they do not like it.
Repubs should NOT sign on to any plan that does them political damage and harms the economy--that is what Obama wants

Von Mises Jr.| 7.18.11 @ 7:51AM

The Republicans should propose means testing for Social Security and Medicare starting NOW! They want to tax the rich, then let them start NOW! It should start with ending all federal benefits to state pension recipients.
It is time to "Eat Your Peas" as a once not so great man uttered. Social Security and Medicare were taxes on productive members of society to pay for the takers. The money was spent mostly by the Democrats in Congress over the last sixty years, and the courts have ruled that the government does not have to pay out these benefits. Grow up, tell the people the truth, and let Obama explain where the money went.
In the meantime, pass small extensions along with ending TARP, duplicate programs cited at $250B and end all unspent stimulus slush funds. Let Reid and Obama reject a reasonable deal and then just keep repeating that they failed to extend the debt limit.

Clint| 7.18.11 @ 8:16AM

Don't Bother Us Obama,We're Taken A Pee.

USSAlabama| 7.18.11 @ 11:42AM

Clint - that reminds me of a priceless segment on Dennis Miller's radio show last week ( 7/12) with Steve Hayes.

Wish I could find a transcript!

Clint| 7.18.11 @ 11:54AM

Miller Cracks Me Up.

Give Pees A Chance.

USSAlabama| 7.18.11 @ 12:55PM

Anybody have a transcript?

Wayne | 7.18.11 @ 11:39AM

Means testing is right up Obama's alley. It is another way to redistribute wealth. Why not mean's test everyone's 401K plan also, and give them to those who failed to save for the future.

Paul Nelson| 7.18.11 @ 10:22PM

Obama wants tax increases, how about a special excise tax of 25% on civilan paychecks issued by the federal government?

Rob Roy| 7.18.11 @ 8:07AM

Sad to see so many Americans so poorly informed about the debt issue that they could look at the situation and see Obama as the "adult in the room". He did say he wanted a clean debt ceiling vote at the out set, but now he wants to seize the opportunity to get a deal done with deficit reduction. What bull! This guy is a know it all who thinks he is never wrong. He is a lying S.O.B.
America, pay attention or we will have four more years of our country's destruction by King Obama the Magnificant!!!!

martin j smith| 7.18.11 @ 8:18AM

Babbin, Cut,Cap and balance is a point of debate that should happen but will not. Babbib, I will bet that ANY PLAN other than what Obama wants will be shot down by HIM and the Senate. So, again, for a combination of political purposes and making an attempt to save our nation: Offer limited debt ceiling increases and over about one year and equal amount in that year of spending cuts. Socialists and Obama will shoot that down.
I think our best bet is to "call their bluff" --but we have shown willingness to raise the debt ceiling--what have the Socialists done ?

darcy| 7.18.11 @ 1:22PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwd4OoXpThM

This video (from last week) is 53 minutes long, but economist Veronique de Rugy does an excellent job explaining what needs to be done to restore fiscal sanity.

The crux of the matter is this, in her opinion: if the US does not deal seriously, make credible institutional reforms by ending its addiction to spending and scaling back its entitlement programs, then even if the debt ceiling is raised, investors will rightly view America's fiscal health in a negative light and make the appropriate and rational response of demanding higher interest rates in order to do business with us -- and all of a sudden this insane debt load we're carrying grows heavier as the INTEREST on the national debt sinks this ship.

We think we owe $14Trillion now -- imagine how much more we'll owe when we're paying 4, 5, 6, 8, or 10% on our national debt? Over time, remember, year after year, paying higher and higher interest on our debt because our government leaders are fueling their campaign coffers with the grease of favors to their corporatist cronies and entitlement-dependent lay-abouts. Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are designed to encourage dependence on the state through confiscatory taxation of the producers; it is designed to transfer your hard-earned income to people who never heard of Benjamin Franklin's wisdom of saving for a rainy day -- and why should they save when the US government will steal the money from your neighbor on your behalf?

Paul Nelson| 7.18.11 @ 10:40PM

What makes you think that interest rates will only go up to 10%,? Why not 20%? Why not 50%? The price of gold has roughly tripled since Obama took office, that would imply a fair interest rate of roughly 100% per year to get a real after tax return that is competative.

An immediate balanced budget would force this interest rate down, and prevent a default.

Jocon307 | 7.18.11 @ 8:19AM

If they want to vote on Cut, Cap and Balance, fine.

However, I too have a hard time seeing how amending the Constitution (or attempting to, since it might never happen) which will takes years, is a solution to the current problem.

The Republicans can do this, but they need to do 2 other things too.

They need to pass a clean simple bill which increases the debt ceiling and cuts spending, if they want to throw in some very popular revenue enhancer like ending ethanol subsidies, OK but only something like that, a fig leaf so to speak.

Then they also need to pass a spending priority bill, THAT needs to be the backup plan.

Not the convoluted nonsense McConnell came up with, guaranteed to unit the people, unite them in their conviction that all politicians are finger pointing hacks who cannot find any way to solve our nation's problems.

Let Obama play that role.

Anthony| 7.18.11 @ 8:27AM

I don't know who advises these feckless Rs on capital hill, like that moron McConnell, but it's so easy to swat away Obozo's lies and deceit, if only these jerks learned to think on their feet.
Hey guys, tell the American people that the government brings in $185B per month in taxes. Tell the people what the debt ceiling obligation is per month and show them what's left over to service our bloated government.
Is that so damn difficult??
Then put all the blame on Obozo when he plays the S.S. card and other vital entitlements to scare the hell out of Americans.
You guys are supposed to be leaders, that means you're supposed to know how to communicate with the people. But of course, that's a skill Washington pols have lost, with soundbites, emails, and living in the bubble world of D.C.
Either you guys learn to communicate and do the right things, or you'll all be thrown out with Obozo.
This is the last stand for America and your careers!!!

tsd| 7.18.11 @ 8:43AM

All this talk of convoluted plans and politics, scheming and games of chicken to blame the other for the past and the coming failures is getting a bit of a bore...it is time the real conservatives, the real leaders come forward and stick to sound principles, the same ones that built this country in the first place. All the rest of this BS is just a waste of time and slowly bleeding us to death. We can and must start working our way out of this mess one step at a time... in the right direction. It is still about principles, character and real leadership. We had Clinton digging us a hole, so what, Bush st0pped digging, but did little to nothing to bring us back and now we got Obama digging like hell again. Where are the real leaders???

fmm| 7.18.11 @ 9:25AM

there are none

Louis Jenkins| 7.18.11 @ 8:45AM

Lies, nothing but lies from the Obama machine. If the Democrats and Liberals were really interested in balancing the budget, making this nation financially sound, they'd do it. Instead they (Obama) say that he cannot guarantee the checks will be issued to those who do, and many who don't, deserve them. Another lie, another scare tactic. Let August 2nd come and go, it's time to put the foot down come what will. McConnel's plan is tender to the fire. Go ahead, vote for the plan, and the Republicans will come up with manure on their faces. If it smells like a rat, well, its a rat.

Indy| 7.18.11 @ 8:46AM

I heard the $111 billion "cut" this morning and was immediatly disgusted...that's like sticking your finger in a leaking dam that's about to explode. The cuts must be deeper and they must start right away. If they cannot agree on what to reduce then do an across the board % for all departments. The GOP messaging is poor, they fail to say everyday, the Senate hasn't passed a budget in over 800 days, this debt crisis was clear to all when the spending binge went into hyper drive. The President didn't engage until 6 weeks ago.

Oh, and what is the baseline to measure the $118B? Is it a true cut from 2011 spending or is it a "cut" from the President's proposed 2012? I'm guessing it is not really a cut but a reduction in future increases...it looks to me like the stimulus spending is embedded in the baseline, the GOP better get stimulus spending out, it was a one time binge, let's not keep those dollars in the baseline

Federal Spending -
2008 $2.9 Trillion
2009 $3.1 Trillion
2010 $3.55 Trillion
2011 $ 3.8 Trillion
2012 ????? It better be significantly less than 2011

Indy| 7.18.11 @ 10:57AM

I read the below post and it raises my concern about the baseline gimmicks even more and lack of true cuts in 2012 jump out as well.
"The substance of the budget negotiations"
http://keithhennessey.com/2011.....substance/

David W| 7.18.11 @ 8:46AM

It's a shame that some of our female conservatives have more backbone than the male ones. Unfortunately the male ones are the ones letting Obama get his way.

TheRightIsAnythingBut| 7.18.11 @ 10:59PM

What a nice nighttime snack. Sexist tripe.

Bill S| 7.18.11 @ 8:48AM

We have a much bigger problem than the $14 trillion debt ceiling. We also have $60 trillion in unfunded liabilities with another $5.3 trillion this year alone. Unless huge cuts are made everywhere it's too late for America.

Beer f.m.h.| 7.18.11 @ 12:04PM

That's right, the off-ledger actuarial liability is utterly stunning and probably means the economy is doomed unless the pols somehow find the backbone to address this disaster now. Time is up, folks. I say reform / reduce the entitllements now. This will not get any easier if we put off until tomorrow...

richard ryan| 7.18.11 @ 9:12AM

Big picture- if democrats are not removed from power in the white house and senate in 2012, we are FINISHED. Boehner/McConnel, do whatever is necessary to make that happen. If it means sitting on your hands and letting Obama make the tough choices, so be it. Play politics. This needs to be Obama's problem, or he will mercilessly SLAM the GOP in 2012 using the media as a sledge hammer. All of this pathetic posturing and political game playing is sickening to watch, but in the end if 2012 goes the wrong way, we will be Greece in 5 years or less.

TruthSayer| 7.18.11 @ 9:45AM

What a suprise? Another Bushy advocating abdication. Thank you, Bush administration, for squandering the only chance this country had for true fiscal and monetary reform. Instead, we got 'compassionate conservatism', two idiot wars (a couple of nucs would have sent the message and saved thousands of American lives), and of course, the communist Obama administration. Yea, thanks Bushies! I'm sure the best course of action is to listen to a former Bush administration official. Better yet, go to Hell with the other idiot Bush morons.

Conservative View| 7.18.11 @ 9:48AM

We keep hopeing that the Republicans will grow a spine. Hate to tell you'all this, but snakes already have a spine. With the exception of the Tea Party Republicans, the whole of Washington is a pit of snakes, and we the little mice they see as lunch.

Time for US to grow a spine. Time for us to toss out all those professional politicans, Republicans and Democrats alike, and replace them with people that are not professional politicans, people that are ex CEO's or ex generals, or members of the comunity that can actually get a job done.

The one thing I like most about Herman Cain is that he isn't one of them, a professional snake in the grass. I'm tired of being treated like a mouse.

Gary B| 7.18.11 @ 10:26AM

I think the real progress is being made by the states. The enemedia pretty much ignores it because things are not going their way.

What I would LOVE to see is several states simultaneously enact anti-DC legislation. Something similar to what Texas almost did with the anti-groping bill.

Texas got threatened by DC with a no-fly zone. They should have called their bluff. It would have been so much better had several states acted together on the issue, as it would be on so many other issues, especially those dealing with the Commerce Clause.

somnolence| 7.18.11 @ 10:39AM

Babbin, I haven't read your article at all, because it only reenforces all other RINO points of view, namely, the inane position that we HAVE to raise the debt ceiling. What kind of example are we setting for a future generation: an individual or entity has $6500.00 in debt, and we want to apply $20,000.00 more? Michele Bachmann came out two weeks ago and said "Don't raise it." Now, Ron Paul, who I have been very unwilling to support because of his foreign policy stances, also says "Don't raise it." ANYONE in the GOP, and yesterday I heard Ann Coulter, Liz Cheney, and Bill Kristol all advocate raising it, and Pat Buchanan has also said we HAVE TO, is hereby and with notice, marked off my list if they vote to raise it or advocate it. I have no further use for them. Call it what you will, it all boils down to capitulation or surrender-code words for "deal."

Clint| 7.18.11 @ 11:04AM

Dr.Ron Paul, November 28, 2010:

"I have two simple proposals when the new Congress convenes in January. First, refuse to raise the debt ceiling. Find a way, month by month, for Congress to spend only what the Treasury raises in revenue. Second, start over from scratch with the 13 appropriations bills that fund the federal government. Reject any talk of baseline budgets or discretionary spending. It is all discretionary, and members of both parties should vote against any 2012 appropriation bill that is not at least 10% smaller – in nominal dollars – than its 2011 counterpart."

The Tea Party Rebellion Escalates.

Rise Up.

Elron H.| 7.18.11 @ 2:35PM

Dr.Ru Paul, November 31, 2010:

"I have two simple proposals when the new Congress convenes in January...They were broadcast directly into my fillings by aliens from the planet Xenon. First, refuse to allow the US military to ever actually do anything with guns or stuff that goes "Ka-boom!" That's just not our responsibility, and we don't need to be involved. Second, we need to withdraw from the U.N., and join the U.F.P. - the United Federation of Planets! The Xenonians promised me an autographed picture of Captain Christopher Pike if I could pull that off, and I'm goin' for it. Third, and just so you know, my followers have all had communication devices implanted into their anal cavities that may short-circuit, leaving them grouchy and irrational...from time to time. Pay no attention! They're as flaky as I am, and...Hey! Get your filthy mitts off of my tin-foil hat, you 3rd-rate Bildaberger!

The Tea Party Rebellion Nauseates.

Sit down (and shuddup!)

Clint| 7.18.11 @ 3:10PM

Why Don't You Try To Make Us Sit Down & Shut Up, RINO-CINO Cupcake.

"Election 2012: Barack Obama 42%, Ron Paul 41%

Pit maverick Republican Congressman Ron Paul against President Obama in a hypothetical 2012 election match-up, and the race is – virtually dead even. "

We'll See You RINO-CINO Fops At The 2012GOP Primaries.

The Tea Party Rebellion Escalates.

Carpe Diem.

Elron H.| 7.18.11 @ 3:13PM

Oh, yes, the "polls" packed by the Paulies! Those are soooooo reliable!

LO-frigging-L!!!

Clint| 7.18.11 @ 3:37PM

DUUUUHHHHH , RINO-CINO Crank!

Explain To All The American Spectator Readers How A Rasmussen Polling Poll Was "Packed".

"For surveys of all adults, the population targets are determined by census bureau data.
" Rasmussen Polling Methodology:
For political surveys, census bureau data provides a starting point and a series of screening questions are used to determine likely voters. The questions involve voting history, interest in the current campaign, and likely voting intentions.

Rasmussen Reports determines its partisan weighting targets through a dynamic weighting system that takes into account the state’s voting history, national trends, and recent polling in a particular state or geographic area. "

You're Up Asshat.

Elron H.| 7.18.11 @ 3:53PM

http://www.lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=621908

http://www.redstate.com/erick/.....omination/

You're down.

Doctor Right| 7.18.11 @ 3:54PM

There you go again, Clinton...Your angry obsession with other mens' posteriors is quite revealing!

David Wilhelms| 7.19.11 @ 6:06PM

Coward.

RCV| 7.18.11 @ 6:34PM

Here are the real Obama vs. Paul numbers in the polls, from RealClear Politics.com:

RCP Average Obama 49.3, Paul 38.3: Obama +11.0

Reuters/Ipsos 6/3 - 6/6 Obama 54 Paul 36: Obama +18

CNN/Opinion Research 4/29 - 5/1 Obama 52 Paul 45: Obama +7

Rasmussen Reports 3/20 - 3/21 Obama 42 Paul 34: Obama +8

The Big E| 7.18.11 @ 3:58PM

Gotta respect anyone who works a Captain Pike reference into their post, BUT the fact is that on the debt ceiling, Ron Paul is a like a blind hog - every now and then he finds an acorn. He's right about the debt ceiling. Under no circumstances - and I mean none - should it be raised. Not in accord with equivalent spending cuts, not along with a "balanced budget" amendment, not at all under any circumstances whatsoever. We do not get out of debt by increasing the amount of debt we can incur. That is pure insanity.

The only way we will ever get out of this debt mess is by living within our means - in other words - by spending no more each month than what we take in - INCLUDING what we are having to pay to service our already existing debt. That can be done either by reducing the amount we spend, or figuring out a way to increase the amount we take in, or some combination of the two. (Personally, I think the problem cannot be solved so long as we have a vast, entitlement based society which produces nothing but negative numbers.)

CrackerHound| 7.18.11 @ 12:46PM

Right on somnolence...
If default does happen it is what we deserve.

Demonstrate once and for all what the TRUE cost of all of those giveaways and bloated government are. The clueless, non-taxpayers who demand that government act as their nanny will soon realize that Obama doesn't actually have a "stash".

somnolence| 7.18.11 @ 10:47AM

I did go back and read it after my rant, and I learned nothing new. Just another example of fear mongering. I'm tired of so-called conservatives advocating raising the debt ceiling and also raising the SS age. Not that I care about the latter; I retired two years ago at 55 on my own terms, partially because SS is becoming bogus.

Michael L. Hauschild| 7.18.11 @ 10:53AM

Blame? I will tell you who I blame ALL of the self serving, big government, elitist clowns. Another GD’d “kick the can down the road” misadventure for us, a re-election ploy for them. This is not about them escaping blame by shifting it across the aisle.

Don’t default? It will be a lot cheaper to default now than later. Babbin what part of borrow forty cents on the dollar don’t you understand? Your suggestions as to what to do in the next several months are so foolish and naïve they are laughable considering who you are appealing to. The same people that did this to us, many have been in place for half of the nearly fifty years it took to get here.

Hold the line, do not raise the debt ceiling, and pay the interest. One other thing all you money market entitlement mentality clowns; why shouldn’t we have to pay a fair amount on interest on what we borrow, If we did, maybe we (YOU) will think twice about borrowing the next time.

The world seems to be full of people who DON’T want to pay for their houses, DON’T want to pay fair interest rates, DON’T want to pay taxes, and DON’T want to throw the bastards out that did this to us.

Now I can only speak for myself but I WANT all that. If you want democracy, freedom, and the “pursuit of happiness” you are going to have to pay your way. We will not be able to legislate or defer our way out of this; we will have to do what all borrowers do, default or pay it back.
To the OTHER entitlement bastards who don’t pay any taxes, as God is my witness, I will do everything I can to get a flat tax.

Chuck| 7.18.11 @ 10:56AM

No fumble but McConnell's punt was blocked and Obama scooped up the ball and is headed for the end zone. Can anyone tackle him in time?

Handy| 7.19.11 @ 2:06AM

Great sports analogy. McConnell punted on first down.

Oldefarte| 7.18.11 @ 11:09AM

Excellent thoughts, Jed. Everyone should remember that R's only control 1/3 of this government; and if they wish to truly solve this spending/debt problem, they need to simply ELECT MORE REPUBLICANS IN NOVEMBER OF NEXT YEAR [since the R's are now powerless to essentially accompolish anything now]. The R's can pass only in the House their desired reductions, while the Senate and WH are conrolled by Democrats who will defeat same in the Senate or the WH will veto same. The McConnell Plan effectively [though it needs to increase its mandated spending reuctions contained in same] kicks the ball over to the Senate Democrats and forces them to either YEA or NEA same, either way they lose politically!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wayne | 7.18.11 @ 11:35AM

Nonsense. They win buy gaining control. The GOP lose by being reduced to whiners. I wouldn't vote for such a party. That 1/3 rd is a necessary third and it needs to stand up to Obama, not capitulate.

tsd| 7.18.11 @ 12:16PM

Exactly, it is time to act today. Stand up for real principles and do not cave in to more of the insane spending. If we keep waiting to fix this until tomorrow....tomorrow never comes, just more BS political games.

Oldefarte| 7.18.11 @ 1:36PM

You obviously understand little regarding politics and political power. Democrats now have it, thanks to dumbarsses who have historically granted [especially on 11/4/08] same to these spending political prostitutes. The only true power can come by electing more/majority Republicans in furtherance of November 2010's revolution which began a reversal of Obama/Democrats. Anyone who believes it possible to have actual political power from 1/3 had better retake an elementary math class!!!!

The Big E| 7.18.11 @ 4:22PM

While what you say about power and who really has it is true, I think you somewhat miss the point. We may not have the power to get what we want out of this whole scenario, but we DO have the power to prevent Obama from getting what he wants. The only way we give up that power is by agreeing to a compromise with the Dems. In this situation, no deal is better than a bad deal, and we cannot make a good deal with the Dems because they will not make a deal unless it is a bad one.

Therefore, I say we hold out. We agree to no compromise, and under no circumstances do we agree to raise the debt ceiling one penny. Sure, Obama and the MSM will excoriate us and accuse us of throwing granny off the cliff, but they're going to do that anyway. This is something GWB and his crowd never understood; what do we or the country gain by us compromising our principles and making a deal we know to be a bad deal just to appease people who are going to hate us anyway?

Paul Nelson| 7.18.11 @ 10:54PM

Actually, Republicans control half of 1/3 of government. They do not control the executive or judicial branches

somnolence| 7.18.11 @ 11:17AM

When someone says "we are finished" next year if the Dems are reelected, are they talking in terms of survival? In other words, ladies and gentlemen of the U.S. are we REALLY depending on McConnell and Boehner to determine our future course, or will good old self-reliance that steered our forefathers and foremothers kick in? WE are the ones who will determine the course, ultimately, whether we submit and let the steamrollers flatten us, or we hold our positions and fire when we see the whites of their eyes.

Oldefarte| 7.18.11 @ 1:42PM

I'd suggest you do a tad more reading/self education if you believe same, since electing more Democrats will bring about precisely the end of this country [which is currently in process of happening]. I'd further suggest you concentrate upon news articles regarding Europe's/Greece's/Italy's impending financial disaster due to their historical [Democrat-like] governmental social services spending that is now driving these countries into bankruptcy!!!!!!!

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 7.18.11 @ 11:26AM

Buy wheelbarrows. You will need them to haul your dollars for that loaf of bread. Get the wheelbarrows now before they are gone.

USSAlabama| 7.18.11 @ 11:46AM

Bill, just think how many bars of gold it will take to get water.

Kingofthenet| 7.18.11 @ 12:26PM

Gold will ALWAYS be valuable, you don't get it, sure you can't eat it or shoot it, but you also can't MAKE it. It is a means of exchange. You got the Generator I want, you want guns. I don't have guns but I have gold.

USSAlabama| 7.18.11 @ 12:59PM

Among the honorable this will be true; but whomever has the water is going to want an awful lot of gold for it.

Kingofthenet| 7.18.11 @ 1:09PM

Why are on about water? Water can be DRILLED for on most homeowner's land, nothing Special. Unless you live somewhere in the Desert. i would imagine in an bad situation Diesel fuel would be the most valuable over current rates, to run generators and cars and it lasts longer than Gas.

Oldefarte| 7.18.11 @ 1:47PM

I'd suggest buying toilet paper instead, since once people start waking up to the financial/economic disaster resembling a giant toilet bowl that's about to overflow into this country after decades of Democrats' overspending, there will result a public excrementing of fear that will make the flooding in Noah's time seem tame!!!!!!!

Michael L. Hauschild| 7.18.11 @ 6:16PM

Idiot, if someone wants your gold all they need is a gun.

howard lohmuller| 7.18.11 @ 11:27AM

There is a proviso that can be brought into the Debt Deal Duel now. That is to recognize the huge Balance Sheet of the U.S. and use these assets to pay bills and avoid any possibility of default.

First, The Fed owns 1.6 trillion in T bonds acquired during the first phase of Qualitative Easing. They could be sold and the proceeds, in conjunction with current revenue, used by Treasury to pay bills well into next year.

Second, the Federal Government owns Trillions in land which could be sold or leased to pay bills.

Third, many government operations could be sold or privatized and the proceeds used to pay bills.

Finally, the U.S. and its waters contain trillions in oil and natural gas. Production should be ramped up until oil can be exported along with coal. Revenues and jobs would increase markedly.

The notion that the U.S. is broke is as wrong as the notion of global warming and the Green energy paradise that Mr. Obama says he will build. The U.S. has a liquidity and credit crisis that if not corrected could lead us into impoverishment.

Selling assets to pay bills is something many corporations and governments have had to do to pay bills. An example is Chicago where its former mayor, Richard Daley, sold the City's parking meters to a private enterprise for more than one billion dollars and used the proceeds pay bills.

Main Street has already taken its haircut having to lose value or give back its housing assets. It is time for the Federal Government to at least threaten to liquidate some of its assets to pay bills.

Wayne | 7.18.11 @ 11:32AM

I find this rationale about BLAME very annoying. You don't give the power hungry megalomaniac in the White House MORE power so he can be blamed. That is shear nonsense. And guess what, the MSM media and the Dems will still BLAME the GOP. So suck it up and do the right thing. Don't be suckered into making Congress and meaningless institution. This is how the Republicans abdicate. I have no intention of voting for any coward in 2012, and the McDonell plan is shear cowardice.

Oldefarte| 7.18.11 @ 1:53PM

If these domestic terrorists in charge of this country used their 11/4/08 granted political power to shut this country down, they'll typically used their dictorial manipulations/propaganda to blame the Republicans for same. If they can BS the STUPIDS of this country into voting this president into office as they did two and a half years ago, blaming Republicans for a defaulting type shutdown will be a piece of cake for them, and anyone allowing same STUPIDLY is only politically playing int their manipulative Democratic hands!!!!!!!!

Margie| 7.18.11 @ 2:18PM

Right as usual. Heh, some seem to revel in the thought of anarchy though.

But instead, now's the time for us to get involved and build up support for those that we want on the ballot in November~ and it CERTAINLY ain't no Democrats!!!!

darcy| 7.18.11 @ 2:28PM

The only way the Repubs are going to get good press is if they do what the WH tells them to do; then the NYT will be singing their praises and telling us all how wonderful O is that he could persuade the GOP that his way was the only way.

But oppose Obama and his agenda, offer any resistance at all, and Repubs are all little Hitlers, and the NYT will make sure its interpretation of events is the only one that counts: naysayers, after all, are a bunch of rubes and hard-right radicals.

Consequently, the Repubs have an opportunity here to demonstrate whether they are statesment or merely bought and paid for politicians. If the former, they will be despised by the MSM and pilloried, and targeted for political execution.

They have a choice to make: they can be reviled by the press or reviled by conservatives; they can become statesmen and oppose the road to bankruptcy or they can be the corporatist politicians they've proved over and over that they are; they can man-up or they can wimp out; they can start asking themselves what's better for the country or continue to ask what's best for me and my career -- with all its perks and power.

How many millions of men have died for this country, loving it so much, loving their families so much, that they willing gave their all to protect her? This is the kind of courage we need in DC. This is a test, perhaps the final one if they fail to meet it honorably: will they make nice for the NYT's praise, or will they be pilloried by the NYT for standing up for fiscal sanity and taking measures to put our financial house in order once and for all?

Will they be mice or men?

The Big E| 7.18.11 @ 4:28PM

So your proposed result is to surrender? The going gets tough, these people don't like, they suckered the American people before, they'll do it again, so we need to surrender?

Sorry, I can't see it that way. If the American people really are that stupid - and they may be - then the Country is already doomed REGARDLESS of what we, or anybody else, does.

In my world, there is still something here worth fighting for, worth believing in, worth saving. Obviously, in your world, there is not.

somnolence| 7.18.11 @ 11:32AM

I have plenty of flour. I'll make my own bread.

Clint| 7.18.11 @ 12:02PM

We Can Dig It.

You Knead Some Dough, So You'll Have Your Own Bread.

Boo Radley| 7.18.11 @ 2:37PM

...and some nice, juicy buns, too!

cicero| 7.18.11 @ 11:50AM

Seems like Minnesota has shown us the way to salvation. They shut down the entire government for two weeks, and the only complaints from the citizens was that they couldn't but beer and cigarets, because the state couldn't issue tax stamps. If the Rs just refused to raise the debt ceiling, Treasury would have to prioritize.
Since this admin has been in charge, they have raised spending $1.4 tril over budget per year, on average. So, just go back to 2007 baseline. Of course, that would mean that they would have to un-hire the 110,000 new federal workers (we could probably survive that). They could also roll back the wage increases they gave to government employees, while everyone in the private sector were taking cuts. Then, they could call back any stimulus money that hasn't already been pissed away. That would get us back to ground zero. After that, just shut the sucker down for one day a month, ( since none of them work on Friday anyway), without pay, until the debt is liquidiated. What is so hard about that.
Once the above is on the screen, we could probably adopt a new national philosophy - no work, no eat. It has been my observation that every social malady besetting this great nation can be traced back to one government program or another.
Last week, the Feds incformedd the city of Detroit that were sending in HUD beaurocrats to inbed with the city's planners to come ujp with a solution to Detroit's problems. Since all of Detroit's problems were caused by HUD, and other government spawned "solution", this should be tragic watching.

TheRightIsAnythingBut| 7.18.11 @ 11:09PM

Ahhhh, just a thought. Minnesota is an important state but it is 1/5oth of the whole. Minnesota also doesn't have to pay and outfit an army, a post office, and sundry other items that I believe are Constitutional responsibilities of the federal government.

Poor analogy at best.

"Every social malady ... traced back to one government program or another."

Bit broad with the brush there, unless you want to include the Homestead Act, the Mill Dam Act, the Landgrant College (Extension) Act, the National Environmental Policy Act. Try again - with a bit more finesse and appreciation for what this country has done.

Who Knows?| 7.18.11 @ 12:15PM

Go to powerlineblog.com and read some quotes from a new book, "Left Turn", that proves how the MSM is not only biased, but actually IN CHARGE of our political system.

When a well-researched book like this one is allowed to reach the light of day (and is ACCEPTED by the elites in our uber-liberal Academia, as the authors report), maybe a real change in awareness of enough voters is happening.

In any case, for me, the best statistic they provide from projecting based on their conclusions, is that instead of the last election going to Obama, IF the media were only FAIR, McCain would have won, 56% to 43%!

The obvious bias by MSM CHANGES, at the margin, the votes of those always malleable citizens, enough to result in tainted---nay, STOLEN!---elections!

Boss Tweed!!!

Indeed!

Kingofthenet| 7.18.11 @ 12:16PM

If we allow people to 'Opt out' of Social Security, what happens when it comes time for retirement and they are penniless? Do I get my money back, I already paid if I 'Opt Out'?

YeloStalyn| 7.18.11 @ 12:46PM

I would wager that the younger you are, the less you "get back" of what you paid. Small sacrifice to get out from under such an evil program.
As for those who can't save... they ask for help from their family/friends, the local church, and local PRIVATE run charities for help. After all, stats show that the less you tax from people the more charitable they are willing to be.

Kingofthenet| 7.18.11 @ 1:24PM

I don't think you understand the SIZE of the problem, IF you ended Social Security, 20-30% of ALL retired people will be broke and living under bridges, and let's be honest SS is 'chump change' IF you also end the BIG cost, Medicare you can Double those percentages. Elderly are UNINSURABLE, they use ALOT of expensive medical care. The whole idea of these programs is automatic protection against extreme poverty. Just look at the AVERAGE savings in the US for people retiring...it is shockingly small.

Kingofthenet| 7.18.11 @ 1:28PM

Here you go:
The “baby boomer” generation are those people 45 and 62 years of age (as of 2008). This generation has saved on the average retirement savings of $38,000, excluding pensions, homes, and social security. However, “baby boomers” with qualified retirement plans has an average retirement savings of $88,000.
How long will that last?

YeloStalyn| 7.18.11 @ 1:57PM

I understand how big the problem is. And SS/Medicare is, in the big picture, THE reason. not waste and abuse (although I'm all for cutting that too!).

You HAVE to end SS. You can't end it cold turkey for those on it. That's economic suicide. BUT... at the same time, you have to realize that the elderly control more wealth than any other political class. It woudn't be QUITE so dire as you describe. But we do agree, it would be bad for everyone. That's why you have to phase it out. We SHOULD have started to phase it out decades ago (ok, we shouldn't have ever adopted it in the first place). But once we phase it out, it exponentially shrinks its effect on the debt. Granted, even with an "Opt-Out" program, younger citizens are still going to have to pay the bill. There's no way around it. When it started, people recieved without paying much (and now they recieve more than they paid). The only way to fix that is for someone to pay MORE than they recieve. Sucks... yeah. And anyone who's seen my posts on the subject knows it pisses me off to high Heaven. BUT... if that's the price to end the evil program so be it.

As for Medicade, that's a stick issue. We have to limit the use of insurance if we want real costs to be more in line with the market (let's face it, no one charges more than the market can bare if they plan on lasting, and if the market can't bare 1bazillion dollar medical tests, those tests won't be billed at that rate but something more in line with the market). We need to find a way to help the seniors cover their expensis while also doing things that will hurt their insurance so that we can, over time, bring costs more in line with real wages people earn. Insurance throws that so out of whack that it's gotten rediculously expensive while wages haven't gone up to match. The solution is probably somethign similar to phasing out SS. You reduce benifits over time while not reducing payments until you reach a point where the market forces hospitals to charge a more reasonable rate so that their customers can afford it. To my point, there are pleanty of stories of people demanding the cost of a procedure up front if they pay cash. It's pennies on the dollar sometimes of what the medical center would charge the same patients insurance company. Hospitals charge what the market will pay... and insurance inflates that. And Medicare is an insurance. We have to cut it back. Period. This will, in the long run, SAVE the elderly money because it will cost them less in taxes (eventually for some generation) AND it will cost them less at the hospital making saving for end of life much more managable.

The only way to get there, though, is through a LOT of hurt on behalf of the young. I hope the elderly enjoyed it.

TheRightIsAnythingBut| 7.18.11 @ 11:11PM

Oh, please, I've put up with your Right Wing intolerant bleatings and bellicose non-logic long enough.

Back that one up - "stats show the less you tax from people the more charitable they are willing to be."

Rowdy Boots| 7.18.11 @ 12:23PM

Dear Republicans,

Please stop calling me for money to fund your 2012 Elections.

I have not seen enough guts and spine to continue to donate to you.

Please get your courage and put it back in your hearts...it seems you are too weak to do anything since the MidTerms!

Stop listening to your paid Leeches and listen to me...READ MY LIPS:

NO DONATIONS UNTIL YOU SHOW SOME GUTS ON THIS DEBT GARBAGE!

irish19| 7.18.11 @ 1:15PM

Very well said! I believe I have said much the same thing to phone solicitors when they call asking for funds.

Oldefarte| 7.18.11 @ 1:56PM

Okay....it's just been reported that Obama/Democrats are raking in $trillions from the Hollywood liberal community to support their 2012 re-elections. What was that Forrest Gump once said???????????

The Big E| 7.18.11 @ 4:31PM

Life is like a box of chocolates - you never know what you're going to get.

That the quote you're looking for? Or is it:

They shot me in the buttocks.

martin j smith| 7.18.11 @ 1:30PM

Actually I have an even better Idea--A Repub rep should be on TV and tell voters something like this:
You know what these debt ceiling talks are really phoney because they avoid the real problem:

Obama wants to have total government control of the economy and we do not--we believe in a free market. I thin we should fight our disagreements right in the open and let the voter decide what kind of country they want. Do they want a country were children are not allowed to set up a lemonade stand or a nation where police tell these children need to pay for expensive permits to do that. Or, do you want to have country where a church or synogogue holds a bake sale or a nation where the government stops such sales. This is the choice for our nation.

somnolence| 7.18.11 @ 1:52PM

I can tell you with my house already paid off, and what savings I have is going to last until I die, whenever that may be. I never wanted to live to be 100 anyway. I keep telling my wife I will never sign up for Medicare, to just let me die on the couch if I wish when that day comes. I have more than that aforementioned $88,OOO that was mentioned, and I dare someone to bet me that won't last. It all boils down to lifestyle and living within your means, low property taxes, etc.

The Big E| 7.18.11 @ 4:33PM

When hyperinflation hits that $88,000 will be worth about 8 bucks. How long you gonna live on that? And that's assuming you still have it, and the Government hasn't stolen it at gunpoint tom give to someone who's never earned an honest dime in their life.

somnolence| 7.18.11 @ 1:56PM

I don't have gold, but I have bows and arrows, and I know how to fish and trap, AND SPREAD SEED.

somnolence| 7.18.11 @ 2:02PM

A bag of baby spinach can last at least 5-6 days, a $1.00 bag of walnuts from The Dollar Store can last about as long equally proportioned out (single person wise). I don't know how long it has been since I've been in a McDonalds. I had a peach and grapefruit this morning for breakfast, peanut butter sandwich for lunch. Yes, I can afford more, but I really don't need it, so I've got a lot of pocket change left over. And my wife and I have been this consistent over the last 18 years, about the time we both stopped smoking cold turkey. I expect my government to behave in the same manner.

Margie| 7.18.11 @ 2:07PM

That would be good, Martin, except for the fact that the sheeple are so trained in their thinking, "Republicans ee-vil - Democrats good", that coupled with the fact that most of our youth are not taught that free market enterprise is a good and healthy thing, but that rich is evil, and the distribution of their wealth is a good and "decent" thing~ triple that together with the faction that is screaming that the R's are no different than the D's, and what do you have? ..and it probably won't matter much that they go on t.v.

It's a sad state of affairs, and I truly believe it's now in God's Hands, as it's always been anyway~ and much prayer is needed, to the effect that He puts it in the hearts of the sons and daughters of men to turn and strengthen what remains, and is at the point of death.

I think that they should go on t.v. anyway, and tell the truth about what Obama is and is doing, and what they as our reps want to do and are fighting for in spite of the triplet I mentioned above~ after all~ they ARE the only ones doing our fighting, aren't they?

The only way to get through to the unwashed is to preach it, and let God do the rest.

somnolence| 7.18.11 @ 2:10PM

Oldefarte, I believe most on this blog have more faith that most of us can survive than you do. I do believe that our ancestors might be ashamed of us succumbing to the fear mongers on both sides of the aisle.

blackwatch| 7.18.11 @ 2:34PM

McConnell's plan, Babin's plan--it's all to gimicky. We are out of balance by 40%.

GOP---announce that we are cutting up the credit cards and living within our means. Return us to the 2007 budget. Then cut 1% more in spending every single month until the budget is in SURPLUS. It might take 36 months and dozens of votes and floor fights in Congress--but so what? That's what we are paying them for--to lead.

Millions of households are having to do with less--why not the government?

The wining solution is to stop the spending madness. All else is smoke and mirrors and deceit.

Kingofthenet| 7.18.11 @ 2:38PM

The King's entitlement reform:
1.Bring Social Security back to what it was supposed to be, Anti-Poverty in Old Age Insurance. To wit, RAISE Social Security monthly checks for all those with less than 10K additional income, for people with 10-50k in additional income it stays the same, 50-75k in income It gets phased out between that range. For those whop 'whine' they were promised it, you get it just become broke.
2. Medicare needs to MASSIVELY expand into a single payer system, any Health Insurance program with JUST old and sick people is DOOMED. Make ALL people NOT covered by a Company Plan buy it and have the states pay for the unemployed with Block Grants. ALL Companies must offer a reasonably premium plan to ALL full-time workers BETTER than the coverage in Medicare, or pay the Medicare rate+20% NO Exceptions.
3.Welfare Reform, Incentivize staying off the dole PERMANENTLY. The big problem is MANY people want to work, but are relatively unskilled so will NOT get paid alot, and the benefits are worth MORE than a job. Think about it, A recipient with a child gets Section 8 Housing worth $1,400 a month, Health/Vision/Dental Insurance for the entire family, $300 in Food Stamps, some cash in General Assistance,Child Care and utility allowances. Say she Want's to work at Walmart, the $400(Being Generous here) a week wages is LESS than all that. Would YOU work under those circumstances?
Not only that the MINUTE she starts working ALL those benefits are INSTANTLY gone.I say let her work for 3-6 months KEEPING all the benefits and money, that way she can gather a 'nest egg' and PERMANENTLY stay off welfare.(Obviously there will need to be safeguards to protect against gaming the system)
There you have it, There it is!

YeloStalyn| 7.18.11 @ 2:52PM

Sounds like a very good Republican plan. Sad part is that it's not a conservative or Constitutional plan.

Part 1- Phase out SS entirely. Period.
Part 2 - Get health insurance BEFORE you get hold. Stop making them part of compensation packages so that the market forces even greater compitetion. Do not allow companies to drop people once they get sick and/or elderly (that defeats the whole purpose). Once you sign up, as long as you pay your agreed upon costs on your end, the company must keep you on their roll.
3 - I like most of this. Even the last part about lettnig there be some coverage for newly employed. However, severly limit the types of monies you can get. If you have a new child after being on the roll, you do NOT get more money. And limit the time frame to 6-8mo max. If you can't find a job by then, you're not looking. Even if you're unskilled. The TOTAL benifits package must be NO MORE than what you would make with minimum wage. This forces the lazy to get a job and takes out the incentive to not work. Also, the tax structure must be such that after your tax liability, you STILL earn more than you would on the dole.

Davis| 7.18.11 @ 2:40PM

"A balanced budget amendment is a great idea, but it's not going to do anything to help fix this month's debt ceiling crisis."
Damnit, that's a liberal's argument against anything and everything conservatives ever propose! Drilling, nuclear energy... it won't help tomorrow so why bother? It will help in the future!!!!!!

Paul Nelson| 7.18.11 @ 11:12PM

I have no problem with a balanced budget ammendment. However, the Republican have the power to force a balanced budget August 3 rd. What problem do you have with balancing the budget NOW?

Controse| 7.18.11 @ 2:50PM

To quote Mr. Babbin "If there's a default, even for a day, it will wreak havoc in our economy for many years to come." This folks is a text book example of chaos theory as applied to fiscal decisions made by mere mortals. Or maybe just Chicken Little chirps.

David Wilhelms| 7.18.11 @ 3:00PM

OMG. A blog on the Spectator site that I agree with.
(Feel free to re-examine your respective positions so that this misalignment doesn't stand.)
Some liberals do have a sense of fiscal sanity just as I expect there are some sane conservatives.

Cut, cap, and balance obviously plays well with the Tea Party set but such posturing chews up time the country doesn't have and doesn't do the people's business. Advice to cut, cap, and balance advocates - do your strutting and chest-beating on FOX and do what you were elected to do while in Congress.

skip| 7.18.11 @ 3:27PM

"Some liberals do have a sense of fiscal sanity"

Name one.

David Wilhelms| 7.18.11 @ 4:58PM

Such hatred and anger is most often the result of fear.

What are you afraid of, skip, that you lash out in this way?

Margie| 7.18.11 @ 6:16PM

Truth is hate only to those who hate the truth.
But all he even did was ask you to name one, and you still haven't.

David Wilhelms| 7.18.11 @ 10:23PM

Me, for one.
And he didn't answer the question there, either, Schoolmarm Margie.

victor| 7.18.11 @ 11:13PM

David Wilhelms:
"Schoolmarm Margie."

To quote yourself:
"Such hatred and anger is most often the result of fear."

Why are you so afraid of Conservatives, so much so, that you are so full of hate and anger that you lash out at Margie who is simply asking you why you didn't answer a simple question?

I will ask it as well.

"Some liberals do have a sense of fiscal sanity"

You named yourself. What makes you sane?

And who are the other "sane" liberals, eh?

David Wilhelms| 7.18.11 @ 11:18PM

My comment to skip - not you - was a summation of the other invective-ridden diatribes directed at me and other posters in the past.

Lashing out? That wasn't even a whisper or an eyelash close to lashing out compared to the vitriol I see spewed on this site on a daily basis.

As for sanity, I'll grant the assumption that you're sane if you do the same for me. And I answered the other question. Tired of repeating myself.

David Wilhelms| 7.18.11 @ 10:31PM

Oh, let's start with Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.) and Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) who authored what appears to me to be a good start.

victor| 7.18.11 @ 11:14PM

David Wilhelms:
"Oh, let's start with Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.) and Keith Ellison (D-Minn.)"

Since they are House members that are part of the "Progressive Caucus", I am presuming that they co-authored some sort of House Bill?

Since you are being deliberately vague, I would also presume that it is worthless.

I found no such bill, but I did find that they are collaborating on assorted mischief to slowdown and derail our economy.

Taxing the "Rich" never works as illustrated by the debacles of Michigan and New Jersey, where the "rich" left the states and took all their holdings, capital, businesses and taxes with them
and left them with severe deficits. New Jersey was left with a 20 BILLION DOLLAR deficit because of the so-called "Millionaires" Tax.
5000 or so left and took 80 BILLION DOLLARS with them.

Repeat: Taxing the "rich" never works, they will just move to low tax, business friendly states and make those states better off.

The Fairness in Taxation Act asks enacts new tax brackets for income starting at $1 million and ends with a $1 billion bracket. The new brackets would be:

* $1-10 million: 45%
* $10-20 million: 46%
* $20-100 million: 47%
* $100 million to $1 billion: 48%
* $1 billion and over: 49%

I was right, this is the same old, same old snake oil that progs have been peddling for decades.

TAX THE RICH AND KEEP IT FOR THEMSELVES!

Second point:
Progressive Caucus to Obama: No Cuts To Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid

Rep. Grijalva on Rachel Maddow - July 12

Rep. Ellison on C-SPAN – July 7

Again, nothing new. They want to exempt 50% of the Federal Budget that is not authorized by the Constitution and slash by 75% the part that is:
Defense.
Why is that?
Why are libs, progs, socs and like minded libertarians allergic to the defense of our country, eh?

David Wilhelms| 7.18.11 @ 11:42PM

*sigh* Vic, ol' buddy,I was asked for names. I gave names. I said it was a "good start," not a manifesto to be blindly followed. I don't recall endorsing a "Tax the Rich" scheme or any other item. I said it was a "good start." And that's what has to happen - all of the interests sitting down and hashing it out. I'm more than happy to get a few slices of the loaf than see the whole loaf get left out to rot because of pre-determined and ideologically, inflexible stands. And that view isn't shared unanimously by Progressives, either, so don't beat that drum.

And, yeah, although it's beyond unthinkable to the posters on this site - but I'd start with no cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Doesn't mean I have to finish there - the pain has to be shared across the board - including your precious "defense." That's called negotiation, Vic, and that's as American as Margie's apple pie.

While "compromise" is such anathema to those on the Right, that's how the system works. That's what democracy looks like - at least the democracy I was lead to believe we practice in this country. (Oh, and don't start about representative republic, etc. - those sophistries lost their meaning a long time ago.)

Let's look at "defense of our country" a little more closely. If the list of people you post are "alllergic," I posit there are just as many "addicted" to defense spending of any kind, of any amount, for any reason as long as someone can wrap a flag around it and call it "national defense." I am reminded of the fighter jet - the Viper? F-22? - that the Congress kept trying to foist on the Pentagon when it didn't know what to do with it.

If you define "defense" as those actions and expenditures that make the U.S. safer, then, hell yes, the pointless (and possibly illegal) invasion of Iraq can't end soon enough. Afghanistan - that's a whole different issue in my view - the U.S. was pursuing a fugitive (that would be Osama) - a police action if you will - at the time and if it took down an illegitimate, morally corrupt, pseudo-religious regime along the way, so be it. If W hadn't been told that invading Iraq was a good idea (couldn't have that thought that one up on his own), I believe the situation in Afghanistan would be much different. But, seriously, at $1.2 million to sustain ONE pair of boots on the ground per year, can the U.S. really afford it?

So yes, I believe Honor the Dead, Heal the Wounded, End the War. I don't see how that makes me "allergic" to defense spending.

It makes me question and evaluate each military situation as it arises. Gee, isn't that what every legislator should do - evalute, not rubberstamp just because it's defense?

Besides, wasn't it good old Donald Rumsfeld who said, "You don't go to war with the army you want. You go to war with the army you have"? Of course, that meant U.S. troops were short of body armor and Humvees are inadequately armored. Where were the defense expenditures there?

skip| 7.18.11 @ 11:18PM

The People's Budget?

A plan to stimulate the economy by training teachers, rebuilding bridges and roads, investing in job creation, investing in clean energy, investing in housing, eliminating the Bush tax cuts, raising taxes, protecting social security, protecting medicare, protecting medicaid, and enacting a health care public option.

I am seething with anger and hate at the stupidity and the dishonesty of idiots like you who are killing this nation.

Name a liberal with a sense of fiscal sanity.

David Wilhelms| 7.18.11 @ 11:43PM

There's no one that I can name that you would accept. More's the pity, skip. And that's my last word to you.

In the words of another Right Wing Blogger, "I refuse to engage with Liberals any more because they can't be engaged with."

skip| 7.19.11 @ 12:11AM

Good idea.

I knew you couldn't name one. There are none. And when the first attempt to name one is more of everything Obama, Reid, and Pelosi pushed the last 30 months, that is just pathetic.

Maybe constitutional republic should mean something again. Maybe there was a damn good reason every founding father condemned democracy as a form of tyranny. And maybe you should pull your head out of your ass.

martin j smith| 7.18.11 @ 3:22PM

From the point of view of what is this really all about
The cap, cut and balance proposal will further force Obama to show his real cards. That means he will reveal his true motives and that his economy failure is truly behind his motives to do what amounts to responsible leadership.

My feeling is we cannot expect anything different from the MSM. I think the Republican Leadership is a failure. Those who are peeing in their pants about Cut,cap and balance are too frightened to be helpful. The issue of this bill will be to draw a line between Socialism and free market Capitalism. Its about this choice. So Babbin. if you continue on the road you are going you will help Obama and thus our country will be destroyed. Republicans should stand firm and not just throw in the towel. The most that should be done is a short term agreement on debt ceiling with dollar for dollar cuts.

somnolence| 7.18.11 @ 3:33PM

The latest fear-mongering is by Harry Reid via Geithner- "it will be worse than the Great Depression."

martin j smith| 7.18.11 @ 3:40PM

Hey wilhelms-the point is not a "le t the tea Party" get it out of their system--they are doing what they were voted to do. But by the way you sound like a paid Obama poster.

David Wilhelms| 7.18.11 @ 4:23PM

Really? I can get paid for posting? Hot dang! Where do I sign up?

But wait a minute - you're not some Nigerian prince trying out some scam here, are you?

skip| 7.18.11 @ 4:28PM

"Some liberals do have a sense of fiscal sanity"

Again, name one.

David Wilhelms| 7.18.11 @ 5:02PM

Skip, skip, skip, simply repeating yourself does not mean that your demand merits response.

George True| 7.18.11 @ 7:56PM

Okay, I've got a question, then. Why won't you answer Skip's question? It is a serious question. Can you name even one liberal who has a sense of fiscal sanity vis a vis government fiscal policy?

I cannot think of one. Can you? And how, exactly, does asking such an eminently logical question constitute "hate"?

NWBill| 7.18.11 @ 8:33PM

I'd sure like an answer to that question, too. The Republicans have policy wonks, study committees, pundits, people both inside and outside Congress coming up with all sorts of proposals on restraining debt and spending. I know of NO liberal or Democrat who has stepped forward, looked in the cameras, and said, "We need fiscal sanity and control of our spending practices; and here's my plan to accomplish that." Not Obama, not Biden, not Pelosi, not Reid ... NO one.

Have I missed something? What's the answer to the question?

David Wilhelms| 7.18.11 @ 10:32PM

Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.) and Keith Ellison (D-Minn.)
There. Happy?

I explained that already, George. Many of the responses seethe with anger and hate, even in the guise of a seemingly innocent question.

NWBill| 7.19.11 @ 12:27AM

Hm. I was actually looking for SUBSTANTIVE, meaningful proposals. See I haven't seen the wide-ranging debates on the Grijalva/Ellison progressive proposals sweeping through the politic. Haven't heard Obama discussing them specifically, or offering them up as counter-proposals to Republicans (probably since he didn't even think it was worth it to steal credit for it). Maybe it's because, since it's named "The People's Budget," it details how people's earnings are taxed, taxed, TAXED more - without lowering ANY taxes for low or medium-income brackets, or encouraging job growth through lower corporate tax rates or stimulating small businesses - which provide over 70% of the jobs in this country.

Yeah, VERY useful in a recession! Go Progressives!

I asked you for the names of any liberal who has STEPPED FORWARD with A plan or THEIR plan, aggressively putting it out there for review and consideration.
It seems that if you have progressives who want to take a seat in the national budget debates with a plan, they would actually GET INTO THE CONVERSATION, with appearances, presentations, and policy statements.

Where is all that with the "People's Budget?"

Didn't even get "The View's" attention - did it?

Since "The People's Budget" wasn't really put before THE PEOPLE for consideration, even by its' authors - it doesn't fit the criteria.

Raising taxes and stripping this country's defense infrastructure isn't going to fly in Peoria (you know, where the People are) when you're in the midst of a recession - but, of course, when you're a progressive ... things like depressions ad recessions are just opportunities to do what liberals and progressives love to do more than anything else - raise taxes, punish business for engaging in free enterprise, and reduce national defense - one of the few enumerated powers given to the government in the Constitution - to a back room dusty shelf, in an age of worldwide terrorism and conflict with Islamist fascism.

No, thanks ... I'll wait for the inevitable resolution to all this: Obama loses in 2012 (inevitable), the Republicans win the White House and the Senate, and the real adults start repairing the damage - beginning with repealing Obamacare.

David Wilhelms| 7.18.11 @ 5:28PM

" ... they are doing what they were voted to do." I assume you mean "elected to do" but skipping the logical inconsistency, they were elected to pursue legislation that hasn't a breath in Hell of passage while real, pressing issues go ignored?

That's your idea of doing what they were voted to do? How is it that the image of Nero fiddling while Rome burned comes so easily to mind?

NWBill| 7.18.11 @ 8:59PM

A lot of people thought welfare reform wouldn't pass in Congress, but President Clinton and the Republicans came together in bipartisanship to get it done. The point, David, is that when Congress stops looking out for their own interests and places the good of the country first, things CAN get done the way they're SUPPOSED to get done. Paul Ryan's budget passed the House with some Democrat support; if there were enough Democrats in the Senate who could stop thinking about re-election long enough, it could get passed there, too.

What's going to end up happening, since the voters - especially Tea Partiers - are scrutinizing every single member of Congress to see where (or if) they vote on an issue, the ones open to doing the right thing will get re-elected. The ones who can't step up to the plate will go the way of the ones who lost in November 2010. If you fiddle, you get sent home.

It's just that simple.

David Wilhelms| 7.18.11 @ 10:37PM

Thanks for the unneeded and unnecessary sixth grade civics lesson. How is this situation different from 1811, 1911, 1951, or any other year you care to name? Of course, the electlors scrutinize the elected. That merits a big "duh."

Substitute the term "Tea Partiers" for Whigs, Democrats, Free Soilers, Republicans, or any other political interest group and you've got the same result. But if you've got a point to make, feel free to try again.

NWBill| 7.19.11 @ 12:41AM

Oh, I thought I did when I said, "The POINT, David ...." It's not surprising that you have difficulty with civics lessons, since liberals see civics as one of their sworn enemies. So, I'm not surprised by your response - you're clearly the product of your poor school system.

Here's another free school lesson, a quote, from George Santayana's book "Reason in Common Sense:"

"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it." So, here are some details to remember ....

1996 - Welfare reform with Clinton and the Republican Congress

2008 - The worst President in the history of the United Stated is elected by the mainstream media

2010 - Democrats get, in President Obama's words, "shellacked" in national elections

2012 - Obama is sent back to Hyde Park, Chicago - the only neighborhood in the country that won't torch his house, because his neighbors all think like he does.

The history/future lesson is over for this class. For your homework assignment, read F.A. Hayak's "The Road to Serfdom," and be prepared to explain why he destroys the entire progressive belief structure in class.

Thank you - now, go .... and sin no more.

David Wilhelms| 7.19.11 @ 2:00PM

Maybe you're lacking in understanding of the concept "point" as in an idea or opinion worthy of consideration. Just adding more ideological drivel doesn't qualify.

But points for correctly identifying the quote from Santayana when most people attribute it to the historian Toynbee.

And as for your mind reading abilites on my opinion of civics courses, my intellect and where I went to school, they're as lacking as your ability to explicate American history.

skip| 7.19.11 @ 4:35PM

No mind reading required:

"Some liberals do have a sense of fiscal sanity" (7.18.11 @ 3:00PM)

"Me, for one" (7.18.11 @ 10:23PM)

"Oh, let's start with Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.) and Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) who've authored what appears to me to be a good start" (7.18.11 @ 10:31PM)

(Authored the People's Budget, a plan to stimulate the economy by training teachers, rebuilding bridges and roads, investing in job creation, investing in clean energy, investing in housing, eliminating the Bush tax cuts, raising taxes, protecting Social Security, protecting Medicare, protecting Mediaid, and enacting a health care public option.)

"What are you afraid of, skip, that you lash out this way?" (7.18.11 @ 4:58PM)

Elron H.| 7.18.11 @ 4:09PM

Ron Paul's new TV ad opposes fluoridation of drinking water

CHRIS TOMLINSON

The Associated Press

AUSTIN, Texas - Republican presidential hopeful Ron Paul is using his first campaign television ad to promote his long-time opposition to the fluoridation of our water supply.

Will our party's leaders repeat the mistakes of the past?"

The Tea Party Rebellion Defecates.

Roll Over.

Clint| 7.18.11 @ 5:46PM

Apparently, The Screwball Israel Firster RINO-CINO Psychotic Gnawed Their Way Out Their Restraints Again & Sneaked Down The Hall To The Computer In The Nurses' Station To Obsess Against Our Tea Party Co-Favorite & Presidential Candidate, Dr.Ron Paul.

Attendants !
Bring The Tranquilizer Gun.

Mark Jeffery Koch| 7.18.11 @ 4:25PM

Would someone please tell the leaders of the Republican party that they cannot, should not, and must not play Russian Roulette with the American economy? Most Americans agree with them that entitlement spending must be reined in but the polls also show that most Americans overwhelmingly want spending cuts coupled with some tax increases.

America spent more than one trillion dollars on a war in Iraq that was unfunded, a prescription plan for elderly citizens that was unfunded, and the No Child Left Behind legislation that was also unfunded. We cannot continue to survive if we do not stop spending money we do not have.

No reasonable person is asking millionaires to pay 70% of their income in taxes but the American people want to know why the rich cannot pay 5% more of their earnings. If the retirement age for Social Security will be increased to 70 for those under 45 years of age, and Medicare is to be cut substantially it is only fair that those who are in the very highest income brackets pay a little bit more of their income in taxes.

The American people will respond favorably to fairness but they will not embrace a political party that wants to cut aid to the poor, the disabled, and the elderly while the wealthy do not share one iota in helping decrease the deficit. Millions of people have lost their homes, millions are still without work, and millions more have cut back purchasing just about everything except vital necessities and the best message Congress can send the American people is that we are all in this together.

A party that bailed out Wall Street while the American people saw those who received bailout billions paying their employees million dollar bonuses while Main Street is struggling to survive is a political party that will deservedly be relegated to the minority by the voters. If a citizen of our country earning in excess of $500,000 a year cannot pay an extra 5% of their income in taxes then it does not say much about their gratitude for living in a country where they have the opportunity to earn more than 99% than their fellow citizens earn every year.

The Big E| 7.18.11 @ 4:39PM

"America spent more than one trillion dollars on a war in Iraq that was unfunded, a prescription plan for elderly citizens that was unfunded, and the No Child Left Behind legislation that was also unfunded. We cannot continue to survive if we do not stop spending money we do not have."

True. We have, altogether, more than 60 TRILLION dollars of unfunded mandates - the bulk of them are ENTITLEMENTS, and that's not even including Obamacare. The Democrats have been playing Russian roulette with the economy for 80 years, they've pulled the trigger five times and got lucky and now there's one chamber left, and you the REPUBLICANS to stop playing Russian roulette? They're the ones trying to take the gun away from the idiots about to blow all our economic brains out.

The Big E| 7.18.11 @ 4:46PM

"No reasonable person is asking millionaires to pay 70% of their income in taxes but the American people want to know why the rich cannot pay 5% more of their earnings."

You want the rich to surrender another "5%" of their income, but that wouldn't even be a drop in ocean of our debt. You could confiscate their entire net worth, and it wouldn't even be enough to cover the deficit FROM LAST YEAR ALONE. And let's not forget, half the "taxpayers" in this country pay no income tax whatsoever. What are they going to kick in? What do they provide to the system? Nothing. They only take.

You wanna solve the debt problem? Turn the takers into producers. There is no government program that can do that. The only way that can happen is if: (A) the takers decide to change course in life and become producers, and (B) when they make that decision, there is an opportunity for them to act on it - i.e. - a job available. And who generates those jobs? Those same people you, in your infinite wisdom, think should be willing to surrender another 5%, that's who.

The Big E| 7.18.11 @ 4:56PM

"The American people will respond favorably to fairness but they will not embrace a political party that wants to cut aid to the poor, the disabled, and the elderly while the wealthy do not share one iota in helping decrease the deficit."

Fairness will NEVER, and I mean NEVER, balance a budget. Period.

And as for the wealthy not paying "one iota," just who the hell do you think pays taxes in this country?

In 2008 (latest data I could quickly find), the breakdown was as follows:

The top 1% of income earners paid 38% of all income taxes.

The top 5% of income earners paid 59% of all income taxes.

The top 10% of income earner paid 70% of all income taxes.

The top 25% of income earners paid 86% of all income taxes.

The top 50% of income earners paid 97.3% of all income taxes.

The bottom 50% of income earners paid only 2.7% of all income taxes.

Now, who doesn't share "one iota" in reducing the deficit?

NWBill| 7.18.11 @ 9:04PM

Thanks for the stats, Big E. Everyone needs to be reminded of these facts over and over again, because we have a President and a ruling class that lies time after time about who pays taxes in this country, and how much they pay. I'm getting sick of it. Any 9th-grader with a computer and an Internet connection can see for themselves the answer of where tax revenues REALLY come from in this country - and every politician who willfully lies about it should be charged with dereliction of duty and sent home.

Stop the tax lies!

Bachmann/Santorum 2012

David Wilhelms| 7.19.11 @ 5:01PM

You're not by some chance related to David Koch, the guy who bought and paid for Scott Walker, the titular governor of Wisconsin?

somnolence| 7.18.11 @ 4:47PM

Thanks for giving me another reason NOT to vote for Paul. Taking fluoride out of drinking water is as nutty as Sheryl Crow policing toilet paper. Bachmann/Cain 2012.

Paul Nelson| 7.18.11 @ 11:21PM

Any federal requirement to floridate water is pernicious. Anty federal requirement NOT to floridate water is also pernicious

somnolence| 7.18.11 @ 4:52PM

The FDIC insures that money will be there. And your figures are way off on hyperinflation. To all you gold advocates, don't hold your breath. I personally don't know anyone who is heavily invested in gold, and those who promise to buy it back can say "I lied." I personally will take my chances with hyperinflation. I can assure you my neighborhood Dollar Store or Schnucks WILL NEVER take gold coin or bullion. Any takers on the bet?

somnolence| 7.18.11 @ 5:02PM

"Cumulative inflation rate at 100% over a 3 year period = hyperinflation." Ain't gonna happen. The country's assets will be sold off as part of the solution long before then. Enjoy your gold, King Midas wannabes.

martin j smith| 7.18.11 @ 5:05PM

There are some intellectually hones posters in my view. The issue of "millionaires and billionaires " is a false flag. It is about "class warfare" among other ways of dividing this nation by race, religion,by ethnicity,by occupation, etc. Those who want to play into this I do not trust. Those who want to "compromise" by giving Obama the money and power to create a Socialist hell--I do not trust. That adds up to a lot of people. The true significance of the debt ceiling issue is economic and political equally. If Obama in particular were truly interested in our surivival as a nation and the Socialists in general as well--there would be no cat and mouse,chess match,propaganda warfare all wraped up in one. And, there would no pants pee-ers needed. The reason for all of this halubaulu is because of fear and anxiety created by Obama and the MSM
propaganda machine. There are too many political opportunists, crony capitalists willing to make a deal. But for THOSE people--you will suffer too--later you will be thrown under the bus

canuckistani| 7.18.11 @ 5:07PM

Politicizing the debt ceiling is a sick joke that will backfire....if it has not already.

The size of the Federal government, as far as program development and implementation hit its zenith under Junior. I do not believe BHO has introduced any new programs of any consequence in his term that have added to the debt.
As far as we can tell it is wars, tax cuts, stimulus (2/3 tax cuts) and a ditched economy that has precipitated the deficit increases. The GOP congress voted time and again for new programs, debt increases and record sizes of the government rolls without even a peep from the RLC or CoC.

The federal civilian payroll went down under Carter, rose under RR and Bush 41, declined under Clinton and resumed its increases under Junior.
Explain how the GOP actually believes they are the champions of financial prudence?

Paul Nelson| 7.18.11 @ 11:25PM

OBAMACARE

NWBill| 7.19.11 @ 1:14AM

Are you serious? Notwithstanding the fact that you conveniently failed to touch on Obamacare (thanks, Paul Nelson, for pointing that out!) as a "program of any consequence" (what exactly would YOU call a single program that directly affects 16-18% of the GNP of the most powerful economy on the planet?), here are some other facts for you to consider:

Under the Bush tax cuts, revenues increased OVER 30% after the rates were lowered from 40 to 35%.

AFTER the housing bust, revenues increased from 1.7 trillion in 2003 to 2.6 trillion in 2007 as a direct result of the Bush tax cuts!

Somebody in the White House pulled Obama aside and drilled those facts into his head - THAT'S why he signed the Bush tax cut extensions into law .... because they were one of the few things keeping the economy afloat. He didn't WANT to, obviously ... but I know one of his mandarins told him that he'd lose FOR SURE in 2012, if he didn't. I also know this because Obama knows as much about economics and fiscal issues as I do about the physics of cold fusion.

I sure hope you're not really a Canuck - Canada is a prime example of what we're facing, and how to fix it. The Canadian economy is booming, because they CUT taxes, CUT the size of government, and CUT entitlements. THEY'RE working up there, and WE'RE not down here. Much as I love the Canucks, we should be kicking economic butt and taking names TOGETHER.

And, just as Canada voted in a conservative government, we need to do the same here in order to get our house in order, and do what we need to do. We need the WH and both houses of Congress, so we can minimize the damage people like you think of and come up with ... and get America moving and working again.

martin j smith| 7.18.11 @ 5:14PM

Mark Jeffrey Koch: The lies of the LEFT have gotten to you-the class warfare bit. The issue is not to throw any one under the bus--except of course the ones that Obama dopes. We have a fascist like government which uses class warfare to divide this nation In so many areas,race,religion, ethnicity, you name it. When we have high employment there is plenty of money to utilize for those in need. But there are many who game the system including those in government. Obama plays more golf than all our presidents put together. He goes on more vacations than all of our Presidents put together. He flies Airforce One more than all of our presidents put together and he has the nerve to MJK you may have it.

Clint| 7.18.11 @ 5:15PM

This Failed Presidency Is The Sick Joke.

"The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 24% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty-two percent (42%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -18 (see trends).

Forty-eight percent (48%) of Democrats Strongly Approve while 69% of Republicans Strongly Disapprove. Among those not affiliated with either major party, 17% Strongly Approve and 46% Strongly Disapprove. "

The Tea Party Rebellion Escalates.

Rise Up.

No Mittens| 7.18.11 @ 5:22PM

I dont EVER EVER EVER see a liberal trashing another liberal.

Ampec has no problem trashing Sarah Palin with a review of some piece of crap book.

Go fuck yourselves Am Spec. It is American Thinker for me from now on.

somnolence| 7.18.11 @ 5:29PM

Bob Beckel on Fox is now saying there will be no new taxes in the "deal" that will be reached. There will be 1 trillion dollars less spending.

Richard Baker| 7.18.11 @ 5:30PM

The Senior senator from Kentucky is yet another, (sigh) professional politician with a confused understanding as to his purpose in Washington. He wants acceptance among the DC crowd rather than the country. What a waste of a life.

G. A. George| 7.18.11 @ 6:41PM

Pushing a shut-down is a great idea, unless you have significant equity investments in something like 401k accounts and want to access them during the next 5 years. It is true that Congress does all the work -- spending and revenue is their exclusive domain. Everybody else just talks, and talk they do!

johnd1990| 7.18.11 @ 8:15PM

Jed, I love you, but you're dead wrong. Compromise is not "getting it done". Innoculating the Dems from fiscal criticism is not "getting it done". The Krauthammer plan would work which is why the President (and Dems) will never accept it. Anything that will hold them to any measure of accountability before the election is off the table. Read E. Cantor's comments about the meetings. In private, this is entirely a political exercise by Obama & Co. They will not take anything unless it gives them the advantage. The ONLY thing we have left is principle. Take a stand, and we'll win the independents as being the party of fiscal discipline. Everything else is a smokescreen. You're just advocating losing with dignity. To hell with dignity when we can make gains in credibility with independents; something that will actually matter in Nov. 2012.

P.S.: Balance Budget Amendment is perfect for deomonstrating where Dem. Party stands. The R's must regain the narrative. Feint hearts should switch parties.

NWBill| 7.18.11 @ 8:26PM

Let's be honest, here. One; Obama doesn't have a plan, and it's not to his political advantage to put one on paper, because he knows it will turn into a hammer used against him in 2012 ... as well as something he thinks he's above. Basically, his thinking is, "I'm the President; why should I document what I want to do? I'm the guy who won; everyone else is, at best, second place. Why not just trust and listen to me?"

Congress doesn't need a "Plan B" to work with Obama - Congress controls the purse, and decided what money gets spent where. That's the Constitution. So, any compromise needs to come from the Executive Branch. But, since Obama thinks Congress should knowtow to HIM, there won't be a deal done before the election.

The best we as citizens can hope for is something along the lines of Krauthammer's plan - because, outside of Cantor, Bachmann, and the Tea Party candidates in Congress, no one has the guts to deal with this problem RIGHT NOW. EVERYONE else is looking at the 2012 election in their rear-view mirrors, and deciding how to steer their cars based on that ... instead of looking ahead to plot out the best navigation towards the destination in front of us.

That's why McConnell's plan is pure politics; nothing else ... as well as being unconstitutional. Giving the President - especially THIS President - authority to raise the debt ceiling? Crazy, and illegal. And just the fact that a Mitch McConnell would devise and promote something like this proves it's a political ploy.

Everybody is basing their decision-making on the upcoming election, instead of thinking in terms of what's good for the country and its' citizens.

THAT'S the problem.

Paul Nelson| 7.18.11 @ 11:34PM

Balance the budget NOW, Republicans win big in 2012. Raise the debt limit, Democrats win big in 2012. Doing what is good for the country and it's citizens is good politics .

NWBill| 7.19.11 @ 2:27AM

Agreed. But here's what I see happening: the Republicans will be lucky, extremely lucky, to get a BBA vote passed by a two-thirds majority in the Senate and headed to the states in time for the election. Harry Reid will never allow it in the Senate, simply because IF it gets past him and it's ratified by the states, Dems will lose the White House and it will damage the Democratic Party for years. Obama knows it. Reid and Pelosi know it. Boehner, Cantor, and Ryan know it. With so many states having conservative or Republican governors and/or legislatures, it has a fair chance of being ratified. The voters will back it in wide margins - and the Dems know this, so they can't let it get that far.

Also - 49 out of 50 states already have BBAs in their state constitutions ... so, it's absolutely ridiculous for a national politician of any stripe to get up and say, as President Obama did, that we don't need a BBA. If states and cities have to balance THEIR budgets - why not the US government?

And, since so much of their progressive and liberal agenda is based on backroom political deals with special interests like labor unions ... having the US government under a balanced budget amendment - hopefully one confirmed by the Supremes - would prevent them from instituting their real agenda - which is subverting the Constitution and the rule of law in this country - to a great degree.

So, the Democrats will fight it tooth and nail, along with the rest of Cut, Cap, and Balance (which I heartily endorse).

I would love to see, in the first 100 days of President Bachmann's administration, the following agenda: overturn ObamaCare, cherry-pick from Tom Coburn's massive budget plan anything she needs to reduce government (without enacting the plan itself-I think it has some huge issues that would hurt the country), and then have Congress enact Paul Ryan's Road to Prosperity plan for the next few decades. Request that the Supreme Court expedite reviews of everything she and the Republicans do, so that the Democrats can't come back and un-do any of it in successive administrations.

We'd get a BBA, we'd get caps on any immediate and near-future spending once some of the Coburn reforms are put in place ... and then WITHIN those constraints, we can then use Ryan's Roadmap to start dealing with healthcare, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

POST American| 7.18.11 @ 10:34PM

-----'90's Show' DIS---traction ALERT!-----

The Constitution violating, ILLEGAL, private,
profiteering USUROUS, debt-generating 'Federal'
Reserve ---------------AND

-the 1.5 QUADRILLION in fake derivatives debt

AND

-the U.S. taxpayer funded, underwritten, equipped and enabled RED China 'miracle'

-----------ARE THE ISSUES.

------------------------------CUT to the chase!

-------------TREASON IS THE ISSUE--------------

Bennet Cecil| 7.19.11 @ 12:08AM

If no deal is possible give him $200 billion as a continuing resolution. Tell the voters the president refuses to cut the government. The senate has to pass it or Harry Reid will take the blame. Obama
has to sign it or he takes the blame. After he signs it the house should pass another bill with cuts. Send it to the senate. When the money runs out Obama has to come back. This keeps the debt in front of voters. In 2012 voters can choose who they want in power.

patroness| 7.19.11 @ 2:28AM

small gov't NOT big gov't
liberty NOT tyranny
GODSPEED

mbt chaussures | 7.19.11 @ 4:39AM

like!

POST American| 7.19.11 @ 5:28AM

-BTW-

Are one and all catching FOX's latest Globalist
ruse --pushing a worldwide VAT.

Told ya' Mudoch's been a Fabian front op
all along. Told ya' O'Reilly's a 'go along/get along'
purveyor of stale beer, T&A and cover ops
for this period of FINAL takedown.

--------------------TOLD YA'

WeMustResist| 7.19.11 @ 5:54AM

Let me get this right. A balance budget amendment will lead to a balanced budget sometime later. A debt ceiling will force a balanced budget now. Which is better? A balanced budget now, or later? Obama says later, and the GOP does not know, so they say "Now" and act "Later".

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