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Special Report
Time to Re-Privatize Fire Departments
One county in Georgia is making a strong case for prvately-funded fire departments. Congress take note.
All across America, municipal governments are awakening to the costs of overly-generous public sector compensation. In Orange County, California, the average total pay and benefits package for a firefighter is $175,000 a year. Firefighter unions say that there can be no cuts to fire department budgets without putting the safety of the public at risk. Yet for most of the nation’s history, firefighting services were reliably provided by the private sector. Today, one county in Georgia is showing how that can be done again.
The history of firefighting is instructive. After the traumas of the Great Fire of London in 1666, a fledging market for fire insurance developed there. Those insurers, seeking to lessen their payouts, organized their own fire brigades to minimize any fire damage to their insured parties’ homes. However, to prevent fires spreading to insured homes, the brigades responded to every fire regardless of whether a house was insured or not, so the business also benefited free riders. By 1862, only one-third of London property was insured. After much cajoling by the insurers, the municipal government agreed to pay for universal fire services in 1866. Soon after, municipalities all over the world were providing fire services as a public good.
Free riders bankrupted London’s fire insurance companies by taking advantage of their fire services, but the free rider problem is not insurmountable. Had the two services been operated separately, the insurers could have incentivized the purchase of fire company subscriptions by offering clients discounts on premiums. Meanwhile, the fire company could have averted losses by billing non-subscribers for its services. Such a system actually exists today in Chatham County, Georgia, at the Southside Fire Department (SSFD), a privately run and subscription-funded fire, EMS, and security company.
The SSFD began in 1961 with only $10,000 and a handful of entrepreneurial volunteer firemen who bought a fire truck and offered subscription-based fire protection to the residents of the then-unincorporated southern section of the county. Today, the SSFD has a budget of $10 million and provides fire prevention and suppression services to half of Chatham County at a net financial gain to subscribers, as the discount offered on the homeowner’s insurance premium from purchasing a subscription outweighs the cost of the subscription itself.
SSFD has succeeded where the London Fire Brigades failed by billing for the cost of its services in the event that a non-subscriber requires them. SSFD Assistant Fire Chief Hugh Futrell says that non-subscriber money loss has not been a problem for the company. Futrell also notes that SSFD enjoys other advantages over municipal government departments, such as freedom from bureaucratic red tape (for example, not having to follow public sector procurement rules) and the ability to employ a solid core of dedicated volunteers which he describes as a “huge savings to the citizens we serve” amounting to almost six million dollars — both thereby resulting in greater overall efficiency.
SSFD’s success refutes the idea that fire services can only be provided by government. Now, as local governments across America look for ways to bring their budgets under control, true privatization of emergency fire services should be an attractive option. No doubt, empire-building politicians and public employee unions will try to scare the public into continuing on as before, stoking fears of their houses burning down. The Southside Fire Department, however, shows they are crying wolf.
About the Author
Iain Murray heads the Center for Economic Freedom at the Competitive Enterprise Institute and is the author of Stealing You Blind: How Government Fatcats Are Getting Rich Off of You.
About the Author
Matthew Melchiorre is the Warren T. Brookes Journalism Fellow at the Competitive Enterprise Institute.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (68) | Leave a comment
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Big Tony| 7.15.11 @ 7:17AM
Paying someone $50 an hour to sleep is something only government would do.
Handy| 7.16.11 @ 5:50AM
Most insurance companies started as fire departments in big cities. Each house bore a "firemark." This was a cast iron badge which indicated the company that insured the structure.
The way it worked was this. If a building caught fire, there woud be a race between insurance companies' departments to extinguish it. If the principle insurer did the job, fine. But, if another got there first, the insurer woud reimburse and pay a penalty to the one who got the job done. Then he could get his firemark back.
Location of fire houses was important, but so was the quality of men and equipment. This remains the case today. Your homeowner's premium is based on both.
It would be easy for private insurers to contract with each other for different towns and cities. The homeowner may be insured by The Hartford, but his city is protected by Prudential. In this case, The Hartford would pay a refgular premium to Prudential to provide fire services. In the event of a fire, The Hartford would pay Prudential on a cost-plus basis.
All property owners would be required to buy insurance, of course; simillar to auto insurance. But, they are already doing that through property taxes today, anyway.
It's not really that complicated. Except if unions and government bureaucrats get involved.
Darling| 7.16.11 @ 5:54PM
fire departments should be outlawed thats, insurance should be outlawed....all this socialism has to be done away with. People can fight their own fires. I dont need another requirement to buy insurance you communist marxist filth.
masly | 7.18.11 @ 1:48AM
Why does the index page follow this article's title with "Congress take note?" Congress has nothing to do with fire departments.
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Melvin| 7.15.11 @ 7:22AM
Very interesting concept. Here in Jacksonville, NC the County Fire Departments are ran by volunteers, and receive a certain amount of operating costs by various fun drives held throughout the year.
I would guess, but I'm not totally sure that these Fire Departments also receive funding from the government to a certain extent.
I have even read somewhere that some government run fire departments are now charging for responding to fires and emergencies.
Alert1201| 7.15.11 @ 7:32AM
Where I was raised in SE Conn we also have volunteer fire departments. They work very well and it is considered part of our civic duty to give either our money or time. When they need special equipment like a truck or ambulance they have special fund drives and the money is raised with almost no effort.
Alert1201| 7.15.11 @ 7:32AM
Where I was raised in SE Conn we also have volunteer fire departments. They work very well and it is considered part of our civic duty to give either our money or time. When they need special equipment like a truck or ambulance they have special fund drives and the money is raised with almost no effort.
Dustoff| 7.15.11 @ 11:30AM
As a now retired FF. Cities are broke , so they are charging on items they us to do for free.
Darling| 7.16.11 @ 5:58PM
volunteer fire departments receive government money but they also charge for services. Volunteerism has to go...thats socialism/communism/marxism. Everyone should just do everything on their own...cowards
TrueBlue| 7.18.11 @ 6:34PM
Nothing wrong with volunteering, but the state shouldn't be involved in local units. That is for locals to deal with, either through taxes or with volunteer units making use of fundraisers, paid by insurance companies, or by charging for their services as needed.
Expecting people to fight their own fires is silly, there is no way that a person has the necessary equipment to fight a fire once it has gotten out of control.
Waldo| 7.15.11 @ 8:05AM
Sandy Sping Georgia (North Atlanta) has privatized many of its city services.
http://reason.tv/video/show/sa.....a-the-city
Waldo| 7.15.11 @ 8:25AM
Sandy Springs*
POST American| 7.15.11 @ 8:10AM
---Tavistock soft-programming and predictive
programming ALERT!
FACT IS cities, and whole countries, are swiftly
being set up to be sold off piece meal to the
reigning cronies of crony capitalism.
The fire department issues aside --catch how all
the infra-structure your father's built and their
taxes paid for is being lifted from you in broad
daylight.
Get a load of how, already in Europe and the
States, whole chunks of territory and islands
are being 'auctioned off' to pay the off the FAKE
debt, in the FAKE currency, to long entrenched
USERERS --people who, not only add nothing,
but have had their hands in FAKE depressions,
staged conflicts, world wars, genocide --er,
we meant 'social engineering' ---and, as ever
the 'fave' of actuarial psychopaths everywhere
---EUGENICS.
Yoda| 7.15.11 @ 11:20AM
Strong the tinfoil is with this one.
Dustoff| 7.15.11 @ 11:32AM
FAKED DEBT????
LindaF | 7.15.11 @ 8:36AM
There was a volunteer fire department, not too long ago, that let a non-paying citizen's house burn down. They took a lot of heat (no pun intended) for their decision to let him burn.
I'm sympathetic - many insurers will not cover accidents caused by fighting non-subscribers' fires.
I'd like to see a state law allowing the volunteer departments to charge homeowners a flat fee to protect them. If someone opts not to participate, but needs their fire put out, they should be able to charge them double or triple costs (some number far above what it would have cost them to buy the subscription). Alternatively, insurance companies could give subscribers a break on their insurance. That's how it works with alarm protection, and it's a good deal for both the insurer and the insured.
djohn| 7.15.11 @ 9:17AM
There are a lot of volunteer depts out there also paid/volunteer dept where there are p[aid professionals and trained volunteers. Check out Peachtree City Ga. alot of volunteer fire dept are still operating in the northeast,
Dustoff| 7.15.11 @ 11:35AM
MY numbers are a few years old. There are around 750.000 fire fighters across the nation. Of that 125.000 are paid. The rest are Volunters.
Darling| 7.16.11 @ 6:02PM
no more laws...no more government requirements...everyone should provide for themselves as best they can. If they cannot provide then they should die. Thats what saved the colonies when they were first built. If you dont work you dont eat. That should be our countries slogan! Everyone provide for yourself. If you cant then that is a sign from God that you dont deserve to live!
Handy| 7.17.11 @ 1:06PM
What if your house was hit by lightning? What if it spread to your neighbor's? What if a neighbor's fire spread to your home?
Even in the colonies there were bucket brigades.
Your spirit is admirable, but your common sense is lacking.
Darling| 7.17.11 @ 7:33PM
then I should put it out or let it burn, maxist filth
TrueBlue| 7.18.11 @ 6:38PM
That kind of attitude benefits nobody. It doesn't make sense to let an entire neighborhood burn when one truck could put the fire out before it got bad enough to damage more than one or two houses. That's why people pay taxes. The problem is that the tax money is being poorly allotted throughout other sectors of the local/state government, so it's completely mismanaged.
But just for my reference, if your house is burning down and you're out in the street, let people know how you feel so they don't waste the effort (and possible injury) saving your stuff.
Louis Jenkins| 7.15.11 @ 8:54AM
That would be acceptable. Allowing for a subscription service may very well work. Unfortunately there's always the guy who doesn't pay, and his house burns to the ground. What would have been even better is if the article had addressed the controversy going on in the District of Criminals at this very moment. Fire Fighters and EMS have been given the task of patroling the streets and protecting the participants in Youth Programs particularly during pay day. We have FDs and EMS possing as Police Officers. Now I believe these men and women are unarmed if my exposure to law is correct. So how are they going to "enforce" safety?
Darling| 7.16.11 @ 6:05PM
No one should be patrolling at all paid for by government money. Citizens should learn to protect themselves. there should not be any organized crime prevention by the government. If you want protection pay someone to protect you. The government should not be providing this service to people who dont deserve it!
Redstateboy| 7.15.11 @ 9:55AM
the gist of the piece as I understand is and from the added suggestions of other commenters here is... It's do'able.
The "Market" works if it's allowed to work.
When you look at what's going on in this country.. you're smacked by the sense that the Liber-uls hate the "Market"
Redstateboy| 7.15.11 @ 10:02AM
an Orange County Firefighter earning $175,000 in wages and benies - what the F!'s wrong with That picture while the rest of us Private sector schmucks are take'n it up the Wazoo with falling wages and benies. Hussein keeps blubbering about sacrifice - that the Rich need to pay more.. well where is Public sector Union employees sacrifice eh??
Dustoff| 7.15.11 @ 11:39AM
As a retired FF. I do understand the pay problem.
NOW, not defending the pay. I don't know by real experence, they we suffer a high number of health problems, for the type of work. heavy loads, unstable sleep hours, injuries and many others.
CalMark| 7.15.11 @ 1:12PM
There are always waiting lines to become a firefighter. Not true of other first response professions, especially police.
Let the market work. If that means (probably does) big cuts to firefighter wages & benefits, so be it. Their job may be dangerous but they CHOOSE to do it.
Dustoff| 7.15.11 @ 1:26PM
I would bet the drop wouldn't be that much if any.
One of the buggest problems I've seen some Fire Chiefs want every toy they can get their hands on. Which in turn costs $$$ galore.
Plus the FF unions pushes for more FF at a station. which again runs up the cost.
CalMark| 7.15.11 @ 2:43PM
Can't argue with what you say.
Unions and gadget-loving bureaucrats are the bane of responsible management.
Occam's Tool| 7.17.11 @ 5:53AM
Or, it could mean hikes in FF pay, I don't know. I have a feeling the big costs are in super expensive equipment.
Ewyattstorch| 7.19.11 @ 8:30PM
Occam
As a retired fire captain from a large paid department, I can tell that 98% of the department's yearly budget was for wages and benefits.
Darling| 7.16.11 @ 6:06PM
They are just leeches on society. We should not have these people at all on the public dole...useless Eaters!
JimH| 7.15.11 @ 10:27AM
It is important to differentiate real privatization where services such as fire protection and trash collection are contracted for directly with the residents or HOAs as opposed to companies contracting with the government. This arrangement while possibly cheaper than government employees can result in shortchanged service as there is little need to satisfy the consumer, only whoever it is in city hall signing the contract.
Darling| 7.16.11 @ 6:08PM
There should be no government services...just burn your own trash in your yard you lazy worthless scum. there should be no services period. Take the nipple out of your mouth and take care of yourself!
Kingofthenet| 7.15.11 @ 11:25AM
Paying someone $50 to sleep?, I like to see YOU do what these guys do on a daily basis. I have GREAT respect for Volunteer Firefighters for obvious reasons, but when my bacon is in the fire , I want a PAID public Firefighter, not some 'corporate' shill. Could you imagine what some 'Private' firefighters would have done on 9/11?
Dustoff| 7.15.11 @ 11:45AM
Sorry I disagree. Many Fire depts meet the same requirements as paid. I've met to many paid who no longer thought of this a civic duty to others, but as a fat pay check and only put in the time as needed. It doesn't mean they are all jerks. Yet having trained pleanty of Vol FF. I seen people who really care about others and think of it as more than just a 24 hr job. Now the comment about sleeping I find that stupid. Many FF depts usually don't get 8 hrs of sleep. because of calls.
chuck| 7.16.11 @ 1:21PM
Here where I live in GA, our county had volunteers, who had to go through the same training as the paid firefighters. They had to go to the state-run fire academy, and pass the same tests. So there is not really much difference between the paid and the volunteers.
Occam's Tool| 7.17.11 @ 5:51AM
The Private guys would have gone in. I've got nothing but respect for firefighters. By the way, I'm paid to "sleep." I'm up and writing because I just got an admission that I will be seeing in a few hours after my nurses evaluate and call me for orders, thus another phone call. Try being on call in any profession that handles emergencies. You'll get a whole new respect for people who put their rest on the line day after day.
Dustoff| 7.15.11 @ 11:46AM
By the way folks. The FF union (AFLCIO) hates volunters because they get no dues from them.
I find this troubling.
Chris| 7.15.11 @ 12:08PM
the main question to me about private firefighting isn't whether it can work in some circumstances, but whether it can work on the aggregate. THere seem to be a couple of problematic circumstances that would arise out of a free market approach to firefighting.
Just think about if your home was covered by 4 different private companies. you subscribe to one of them thinking you are covered, but when your house goes up in flames, a different company shows up to put it out, then you have to pay them a huge fee even though you weren't free riding to begin with!
The opposite circumstance is that companies dont find it as profitable to operate in rural poor areas where costs are higher and the payoff is much less. Then its not an issue of free riding, because there is simply no firefighters at all, and you dont even have the option to be covered even if you were willing to pay.
The last obvious problem I see is the circumstance that you cant afford the extra subscription service, your house is burned down, the firefighting company puts it out, and you cant afford to pay them for their services. presumably this would play out the same as our current hospital system- you cant do a credit check on somebody while their house is burning down and threatening neighboring residences. It would then be likely that the state government would have to foot the bill, otherwise companies would stop putting fires out at non-subscribing households. In this case the savings to local governments is not fully accounted for, and who knows what types of fees these companies would put on the taxpayer.
I think what is comes down to is either you permit these problems under a private system, in which case the benefits probably dont outweigh the cost of simple reforms to the current public system, or you acknowledge that the private system might need some substantial regulations. In this case, the argument for less red tape may also be undermined, and the paranoia about private companies running firefighting amok may lead to more bureaucratic nightmares than a public system originally did. All this with more risk that some people aren't even covered by a firefighting company at all!
Darling| 7.16.11 @ 6:12PM
How about if your house burns its your own damn problem...why should I care about other peoples houses? Its obvious that it means you did something wrong if your house burns down. Theres no excuse for community organization...thats just another form of communism/socialism/marxism...you make me sick you weak pathetic exuse of a human
kerry| 7.17.11 @ 8:22AM
and if that fire happens to be burning right next to your house/property? even the colonies had bucket brigades. There should be a way to privatize and be reasonable about it, now, darling :-)
kerry| 7.17.11 @ 8:22AM
and if that fire happens to be burning right next to your house/property? even the colonies had bucket brigades. There should be a way to privatize and be reasonable about it, now, darling :-)
Darling| 7.17.11 @ 7:36PM
The communist elements of our past were regretful...thats where it starts and where it leads to is today. they could have stopped it then but fire brigades lead to the mess we are in today. If someones house catches on fire let it burn, if their neighbors house catches on fire because of it then they either put it out themselves or it burns. Sorry any other option leads to communism, liberalism, marxism
Dustoff| 7.15.11 @ 1:23PM
Chris.
Fire depts are very $$$$
I'm pretty sure you won't see say 15 different dept in say one city. Not that it couldn't work. Even now cities share with other ff when they get real busy or have a huge fire.
Slacker| 7.15.11 @ 1:49PM
There already is a substantial private firefighting industry but, their business is wildfires. Western states, the forest service, and even insurance companies hire them all the time. It isn’t much of a leap to extend the business model to structure fires.
The Haz| 7.15.11 @ 1:50PM
To the deposed Kingofthenet,
Those private firefighters on 9-11 you mention, that's right, the ones in the article, they sent two recovery teams with dogs immediately from south GA to NY city arriving on early 9-12, staying for a week, serving NY FFs, and they did this at NO COST to NY FFs, NY citizens, or any taxpayer. Paid for by private fire subscribers who care about the USA and bend over backwards to help only to get criticized by the likes of you who obviously have no knowledge of what private non-profit organizations really do. Wonder if you say this about the Red Cross when they show up at your disaster. Hmmmm?
Nite| 7.15.11 @ 10:49PM
Many small departments are mostly volunteer. However, the down side is that there is no insurance for their families if they die in a fire. If they run as a volunteer on EMS, then these volunteer agencies are usually exempt from covering employees who are exposed to contagious diseases. These employees are responsible for their own medical care, even if they get the correct follow-up care. Another problem is they may not be able to obtain patient testing disease results, even if the volunteer had a significant exposure to a patients blood. There are plenty of downsides to being a volunteer for either fire or EMS. There are certainly plenty of risks. Very few people will put their life on the line for a 401K. People who work in Fire/EMS suffer more heart attacks, have higher cancer risks as well as other diseases. I was a nurse for quite a few years for the members of a large department and we lost several. The most cost effective means of EMS delivery services, is with fire based EMS. Private EMS services is certainly not as cost effective, nor due they provide the best care.
Darling| 7.16.11 @ 6:16PM
Eliminate all the costs and have individuals lead a good and upright life...let people take care of themselves
POST American| 7.16.11 @ 12:13AM
----Nations being destroyed, countries
being sold off piece meal, Globalization
and EUGENICS.
WHY are you all such little girls when it
comes to talking about what's going down?
What's the matter? --Rat's got your tongue?
Darling| 7.16.11 @ 6:20PM
Everyone is cowards...they all want someone else to help them. They think oooh we dont like this government but if we could put in our ideas then it will work better! HA they are the same as the liberal/communist/socialist/marxist. They all want the producers to pay for them to do everything for them. I have only one thing to say to them all....stop sucking the teat...if you dont have it then work to provide for your own self. If you want it do it yourself! Dont think that a government by another name or another party will be different...you all make me sick you weak pathetic excuses for humans. Your grasping hands all moving toward MY pocket...like baby birds whining and grasping for what is not yours.
Kingofthenet| 7.17.11 @ 1:35PM
Living in a 'society' really isn't your thing, too bad there is no more Sparta, that's more your style. I guess you could write to Theodore John "Ted" Kaczynski, and trade Manifestos.
Handy| 7.17.11 @ 2:08PM
LOL King. I didn't see yours until after I posted mine. Yours is more succinct.
I have come to believe that Darling is actually a plant. She is using hyperbole to mischaracterize humanity in some distorted way that liberals think we conservatives view it. If so, it is a very poor attempt at satire. Otherwise, it would not be a surprise if Darling suffers a similar fate with the Unabomber.
Kingofthenet| 7.17.11 @ 2:31PM
I still torn thinking Darling is more like the 'UnaBomber' or Ayn Rand,or possibly even Mad Max either way I don't want to live in her 'vision' of society.
Darling| 7.17.11 @ 7:39PM
It all starts with a thought like but what if the fire spreads to my house...this is the slippery slope that this country has gone down. Now everyone wants everything. The only logical way to go is to let everyone make it on their own...completely. Any type of community participation in any way leads to liberalism/communism/marxism...you all make me sick
Handy| 7.18.11 @ 4:10AM
How about the voluntary military? Do you prefer conscription? An unpaid military? No military at all?
Anarchism has been tried, and it failed. As miserably as Socialism has always failed. Socialism nearly starved the Massachusetts Bay Colony, but Anarchy would have finished it off sooner.
If you fell overboard, would you prefer that the ship just sailed on? If you broke both your legs, would you prefer that people just stepped over you while you slowly starved?
Girl, if you are under 16, don't bother to answer. If you are 16 or older, please try to respond sensibly. Either way, we will learn somethingabout you.
Handy| 7.17.11 @ 1:52PM
What if a terrorist attacks your apartment building and you are stuck on the 5th floor? Would your own hook and ladder truck be close enough to save you? Would you allow it to be used to rescue your neighbors?
As anti-social as you are, you probably live on an island, raise all your own food, purify your own water, generate your own electricity, manufacture your own tools and clothes (assuming you wear any). BTW, where did you get the computer that you are using to embarrass yourself here?
So, you want to eliminate all volunteers? Does that include those of us who voluntarily exchange value for value? What system would you prefer over Capitalism?
I set values for my services and products. If I choose to blow the snow off my neighbor's sidewalk because it is easy to do and she is a little old lady, is that wrong unless I charge her? If she volunteers to pay me, is it wrong for me to refuse to accept?
If you ever want to get serious, we who is (sic) "cowards" will be here for you. Until then, we will simply enjoy your jejuene rantings.
Darling| 7.17.11 @ 7:41PM
I would die like I was supposed to if I could not find any way out. In a society like that there would be no terrorist threat btw. coward
Darling| 7.17.11 @ 7:41PM
I would die like I was supposed to if I could not find any way out. In a society like that there would be no terrorist threat btw. coward
Handy| 7.18.11 @ 4:25AM
Utopian, huh? Probably a budding feminist.
There would be no society at all, because you would outlaw voluntary sex between men and women. You do know about sex, don't you?
I will leave you with a quotation that you may learn when, and if, you reach high school.
"No man is an Island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were; any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee."
John Donne, Meditation XVII
English clergyman & poet (1572 - 1631)
DeesBull| 7.17.11 @ 3:32PM
As a retired Firefighter of 32 years I have to say you have to be careful what you ask for, you may just get it. If you think you are going to save money by getting rid of your paid department, you won't save in the long run. Over time the equipment will run down with no money to repair or replace it. You won't be able to have enough fundraisers to keep up with the demand. The men and women will get tired of making 'free' calls all day long. It's not unusual for a large city department's firefighters to work their entire shift making calls. Think someone is going to do that for free? I doubt it.
Some people think the fire departments aren't justified because they generate no revenue. We don't have firefighters working to generate revenue, we pay them to be there when we need them. If your life and/or property is in danger you're going to want someone to be there as soon as possible.
Study the history of firefighting and you may understand more. Getting rid of paid departments has been tried and failed before. Trying to consolidate the police and fire into a 'public safety officer' had been tried and failed. I've never had anything bad to say about volunteer departments because they have their place and it works. The paid departments work well in the big cities. They have evolved to where they are and they are working out well. As for the big salaries they make? Dig really deep for the real story. The average firefighter makes a decent living these days because a lot them worked hard to improve themselves by training, getting college degrees and by getting the cities to recognize what we are worth.
I pray that you never need them but if you do I hope you get the best service you can.
OpenTheDoor| 7.17.11 @ 9:38PM
I worked for SSFD for three years while the Carter administration was being a pain to my real occupation, aircraft. Hugh was a volunteer at the time, glad he moved up the ladder, good guy. I enjoyed my time there but had to get a job where I wasn't divided so much. It is hard to hold down three jobs to make ends meet. The paid people there now make enough to support a family, good for them.
Dees Bull, you are full of it, I never met a more dedicated group of men and women than those in SSFD. They all climbed to the top of the ladder or stayed on the ground and ran a pumper, nobody ever shirked their duty. We took the same tests and passed the same requirements as any Fire Dept.
During contests SSFD reliably beat the local "regular" fire departments handily, the men and women were there because they wanted to be. Yes, I said women, probably one of the first Fire Dept. to accept and embrace woman firefighters. Claiming otherwise does a disservice to those who have given their all to volunteerism, you should be ashamed Bull.
Hugh, if you read this, Richard says hi.
DeesBull| 7.18.11 @ 11:49AM
I'm full of what? Did I say anything bad? Help me out here.
If you think a volunteer department will work in a large metropolitan area you are dreaming. They will wear themselves out making 'free' calls. In a heavily populated area they can run all day long. I know, I've been there. How do you think they will support their families? On thanks from the community? No way you can hold down a job and make calls all day long. A volunteer company in a big city will run out of people willing to volunteer.
I never said volunteer companies were less than qualified. Read it again.
Volunteer companies work in the areas they are in because of the small amount of calls they make. It's hard to justify the tax base to support a full time paid department. The equipment doesn't have the wear and tear of making 20 calls a day.
The SSFD isn't in a large metropolitan area. I notice the article didn't say how many calls they made. Not enough information here to say that what they have there will work in New York City. Dream on.
Kevin Gutzman | 7.17.11 @ 10:58PM
Why does the index page follow this article's title with "Congress take note?" Congress has nothing to do with fire departments.
Tenn Slim| 7.18.11 @ 7:56AM
This is an interesting topic. My roots go deep into the Volunteer Fire Brigades. Generations of Fire Fighters, Chiefs, and Volunteers.
If the Dept serves essentially a small urban community, then a mix of private, local tax supported, subscriptin based income can meet most equipment needs. Payrolls for FT Pros need to be Tax based. Training is always a high expense item. Funds for such can and do come from State sources. The management of each Dept incomes should be left to the local Town or District Fiscal manager. Fire Pros seldom have the expertise to do budgets.
PURE tax supported Depts, serve large cities, unionized and heavy on labor costs. These could be brought under a private, insurance based fiscal arrangement, but the transfer from current processes to such would be difficult. Unions, Local Government Pols etc.
A great discussion topic.
end
Semper Fi
Tenn Slim| 7.18.11 @ 8:08AM
Reviewing the posts, I could not help but be dismayed, disgusted and generally at odds with the whole lot.
FIRE fighters are humans, doing what most of us could not nor would not do.
They risk ALL EVERYTIME. It is obvious that none of the posters ever stood in a doorway full of 3000 degree fire, with an overhead back draft.
You cannot put a price for labor on such.
Folks. A touch of human kindness please. The idea that we all should take care of our own, and to H.... with the neighbors is abhorrent.
The US Electorate swallowed whole the idea that the DC Government could and should carry our water from cradle to grave last 2008. Now, we are opining on the details.
Get real folks, when disaster hits, you WANT your neighbor to carry the bucket of H2O.
As Jack Nicolson said. Seems " you cant stand the truth".
Semper Fi
Hakeem Shabazz| 7.18.11 @ 3:03PM
Problem is theyre free-loaders
Just like the military.
1.) Firemen are paid well for doing nothing.
There are very few fires today. Building codes are largely responsible. What little work they have is mostly rescues. So instead of paying them for 40 hours a week of talking at the firehouse, we should pay them to be nearby, and on call, 120 hours a week.
2.) Firemen, like cops and military, shouldnt retire till theyre 68. If theyre too frail to put out fires, they could be school janitors, DMV clerks, toll takers, stuff like that. Same with the military. Instead of retiring them, put them at the post office, or in the burearacracy.