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At Large
Entebbe Celebrated
35 years ago this week, Israel claimed one of the biggest triumphs in its war on terror. Much has changed.
Thirty-five years ago last week, Israeli commandos flew into the heart of Africa to the old terminal building at Uganda’s Entebbe Airport. In a lighting operation, they freed 103 hostages. 248 passengers and 12 crewmembers had been hijacked a week earlier aboard Air France Flight 139 en route from Athens to Paris. The hijackers were German and Arab — this was a collaboration between Baader-Meinhof and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, a Marxist-Leninist PLO faction that is now part of Mahmoud Abbas’ Palestinian Authority (PA).
Once in control of the plane, the terrorists refueled with help from Muammar Gaddafi’s Libyan government and diverted the flight to Idi Amin’s bloodthirsty dictatorship. The PLO terrorists gradually released most passengers, retaining only those with Israeli passports or Jewish surnames — no “we’re anti-Zionist, not anti-Semitic” pretensions here — plus the Air France crew of Captain Michel Bacos, who refused to abandon any of his charges.
The hijackers demanded the release of jailed Palestinian terrorists in an assortment of Israeli and European jails and threatened to start murdering the hostages if their demands went unmet. With the passengers captive in the middle of a seemingly inaccessible African tyranny, there was no reason to suppose anyone, the Israelis included, would have any choice but to cave in.
Instead, only hours before the deadline, Israeli commandos flew the 2,500 miles to Uganda in four C-130 Hercules military transport planes, taking the terrorists and their Ugandan enablers by surprise. The terminal building holding the hostages was stormed and all but four were safely spirited away. It was the stuff of movies (and three were duly produced in quick succession). Israel basked, perhaps for the last time, in international acclaim and sympathy for resolutely fighting terrorism.
Much has changed in 35 years. Once determined never to negotiate with terrorists (even to redeem Israeli captives), Israel has, in recent years, unilaterally ceded for nothing what it would not have previously yielded even for hostages’ lives. And still the rockets fall and the bombings and kidnappings continue with no foreseeable end in sight.
Terrorism has also changed, creating a more hostile and panicked international environment. It has evolved from spectacular hijackings to generalized massacres, from hostage taking to suicide bombing. A daring commando operation — the elimination of Osama, for example — can at best be but one successful skirmish in a prolonged war.
Changes on the ground also present new difficulties. Extrication of captives can be even harder closer to home. In 1994, Israeli serviceman Nachshon Wachsman, kidnapped by Hamas in 1994 and held near Jerusalem, was killed before Israeli commandos could rescue him. Recently, another Hamas-kidnapped Israeli servicemen, Gilad Shalit, entered the sixth year of his captivity in Gaza. The Israelis have not been able to free him.
Moral relativism today enables those seeking to persuade large segments of world publics that the democratic West is the greatest misfortune to befall the earth. If the West may not judge another society’s acts, than justifications for those acts must be found and validated — which is simply judgment of another type, unacknowledged, the product of moral relativism.
Whereas American journalists never thought twice to don US military uniforms during a time of conflict, their successors today seriously ponder even the propriety of wearing American lapel-pins. Objectivity was once prized as a precondition of sound judgment. Today it is invoked for the purpose of precluding it.
Meanwhile, Western heroism and sacrifice is played down, even in popular culture. It took Hollywood about five months to produce a film on Entebbe. It took it five years to produce United 93. It did not take Hollywood until 1946 to produce its first World War Two film.
Perhaps a film about the elimination of Osama will come sooner.
About the Author
Daniel Mandel is a Fellow in History at Melbourne University and author of H. V. Evatt and the Establishment of Israel: The Undercover Zionist (Routledge, London, 2004). His blog can be found on the History News Network.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (110) | Leave a comment
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Appleby| 7.11.11 @ 7:03AM
There will be a Dancing With The Stars movie before any movie regarding Osamas death is even considered.
chuck| 7.11.11 @ 7:53AM
Don't want to OFFEND the terrorists, you know.
Political correctness sucks, and is killing this country.
Mike D.| 7.11.11 @ 10:30AM
There is nothing correct about being political.
masly | 7.12.11 @ 2:15AM
like marrying girls off at age 9, and killing the Jews hiding behind a rock, and honor killings. No thanks, Pal.I am a 28 years old doctor, mature and beautiful.and now I am seeking a good man who can give me real love , so i got a username Andromeda2002 on--s'e'ek'c'ou'ga'r.c óm--.it is the first and best club for y'ounger women and old'er men, or older women and y'ounger men,to int'eract with each other. Maybe you wanna ch'eck 'it out or tell your friends!
Alan Brooks| 7.11.11 @ 1:48PM
Soweto was also this week.
Alan Brooks| 7.11.11 @ 3:19PM
Why can't you celebrate the 35th anniversary of Soweto uprising as well?
Skippy| 7.11.11 @ 4:27PM
Maybe because the rioters stoned their best friend to death(Dr. Edelstein)and then, while being led by violent communist ex-prisoner Nelson Mandela, their kinsmen established the most dangerous nation in Africa.
Or maybe, like the rude rapper sez, we just don't like black people.
Take your pick.
Stuart Koehl| 7.11.11 @ 8:34AM
There have been no fewer than three movies about the raid on Entebbe.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 12:58PM
Indeed, Stuart. The point is that the nature of patriotism has changed since 1976. Libtards and "Non-Interventionist" Liberatarians have led the retreat.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 1:00PM
Sorry, "Libertarians."
The Letters of Jonathan Netanyahu are available. "Self-Portrait of a Hero," occupies a proud position on my bookshelves, next to my signed copy of Ariel Sharon's "Warrior."
Clint| 7.11.11 @ 1:52PM
Bullcrap, Screwball Israel Firster fanatic Propagandaboy Tool Job.
Dr. Ron Paul,
“Our military’s purpose is to defend our country, not to police the
Middle East.
“As the President prepares to send even more support to Egypt, we should
be reminded that it was our foreign aid that helped Mubarak retain power
to repress his people in the first place. Now we have to deal with the
consequences of those decisions, yet we keep repeating the same mistakes.
“I am not the only one who can see the absurdities of our foreign
policy. We give $3 billion to Israel and $12 billion to her enemies.
Most Americans know that makes no sense.
“We need to come to our senses, trade with our friends in the Middle
East (both Arab and Israeli), clean up our own economic mess so we set a
good example, and allow them to work out their own conflicts.”
The Tea Party Rebellion Escalates.
Carpe Diem.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 3:10PM
Ron Paul just voted for aid to Hamas, Clint. Such a GOOD libertarian. He may SAY that we should cut aid to the Arabs, but he VOTES for it. With Kucinich. Check THOMAS.
What the schmuck says is immaterial compared to how he votes. He votes like an antisemtic scumbag named C(lint) Elegans. C Elegans, a free-living self-fertilizing hermaphroditic nematode, has one of the simplest nervous systems of any multicellular animal---302 nerve cells exactly. It's advantages in genetic experiments include the fact that it has two sexes---a male, which is fertilized selectively, and a hermaphrodite, which breeds true and, in the absence of a male, fertilizes itself. In addition, unlike fruit flies, it is easily growned and easily contained on agar plates.
Eat that sugary agar, C(lint). But I think 302 neurons is a trifle high for you. You don't represent ANY of the Tea Partiers I know. You are a Dog For Paul.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 3:13PM
Sorry, not "growned," "Grown."
Clint| 7.11.11 @ 4:16PM
Duuuhhhhhhh !
Foist, Do Your Homework MensaBoy Screwball Israel Firster Fanatic Neo-Chickenhawk Tool Job.
This was a resolution, not a bill, and it did not authorize ANY money to anybody.
You Got Yourself An Ax Grinding Fixation Against Our Tea Party Co-Favorite & Presidential Candidate Dr.Ron Paul & Our Tea Party Senator Dr.Rand Paul & Many Of We Tea Party Patriots Because We Don't Asskiss Your Screwball Israel Firster Fanatic Agenda,Tool Job.
The Tea Party Rebellion Escalates.
Carpe Diem.
Occam's Tool| 7.12.11 @ 2:03AM
It didn't authorize payment, it authorized cutting OFF payment.
Clint| 7.11.11 @ 4:29PM
That's Because Of The Company You Keep, As One Sorry-Assed Government Excuse For A Shrink
Aaaaand Screwball Israel Firster ToughiePussy Tool Job , You're Big Mouth Is Writing Checks Your Little Short Fat Aging Body Can't Cash.
The Tea Party Rebellion Escalates.
Carpe Diem.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 6:30PM
Nice job of losing argument, C(lint) Elegans. Physical threats amuse me.
By the way, 302 neuroned one, from H.268:
"(9) supports the position taken by Secretary of
21 State Hillary Rodham Clinton on April 22, 2009,
22 that the United States ‘‘will not deal with or in any
23 way fund a Palestinian government that includes
24 Hamas unless and until Hamas has renounced violence, recognized Israel and agreed to follow the previous obligations of the Palestinian Authority.’’
Paul voted against defunding Hamas.
Occam's Tool| 7.12.11 @ 2:01AM
Actually, Clint, I don't fight. Having access to paralyzing nerve agents along with significant expertise in dissection means that I can usually avoid fighting.
Of course, the nerve agents don't provide anaesthesia...but bagging for breathing is easy to do.
I am of course joking...about my intent, not my access or skill. Psychiatrists are MDs, you know, Clint.
Occam's Tool| 10.27.11 @ 11:26AM
Yes, and that's why I wouldn't cash checks with my short fat aging body. I'd do other things.
Stuart Koehl| 7.11.11 @ 3:26PM
"“Our military’s purpose is to defend our country, not to police the Middle East."
The two are not incompatible. See how well the United States will do when nobody is policing the Middle East.
Clint| 7.11.11 @ 4:10PM
Now, Tell Us All About Our Staggering National Debt, Our Anemic GDP, Our Crappy Unemployment Numbers, Our Stilted Gas Prices.......
The Tea Party Rebellion Escalates.
Carpe Diem.
Stuart Koehl| 7.11.11 @ 5:02PM
What hath the debt to do with policing the Middle East? The benefits far outweigh the costs. Even the costs of two wars fought in Iraq and Afghanistan amount to less than 1% of GDP. That's not breaking the budget. Poor economic growth has nothing to do with the foreign aid budget, elimination of which would not reduce the deficit by even one tenth of one percent. And, the U.S. being a trading nation (as has been the case since the founding), we need stable markets and secure lines of communication. That means, even if we can make ourselves self-sufficient in oil and gas (demonstrably not possible, unless we annex Canada), our trading partners would still be dependent on the Middle East for their supplies. Who will ensure stability there? France? Britain? Germany? And if there is no stability, what happens to European and Asian economies, and then what happens to ours? By all means, expand U.S. domestic energy production, but that will not eliminate the necessity of the United States as guarantor of global stability.
Your inability to think strategically, Clint, has been a persistent shortcoming in most of your posts.
And yes, I am being condescending and mocking you.
Clint| 7.11.11 @ 6:28PM
Rear REMF Stu Bloviates,
"See how well the United States will do when nobody is policing the Middle East."
Tea Party Clint's point to Rear Rear Echelon MF'er Stu is that We ain't doin' well now At Home , while we 're busy using Our Troops as Cannon Fodder, policing the Middle East,while Our Big Government Ruling Elite Hand Over more Of Our Taxpayer Money in Foreign Aid To Middle East Parasite Leeches.
Then Rear REMF Stu talks about European (BP)Britain,The French (Nuke Plants) Frogs, The Germans( U.S. Bases)Countries Oil Dependence,While They Don't Pull Their Own Defense Oars.
And yes, I am being condescending and mocking you Rear Echelon REMF College Teacher Bloviator.
The Tea Party Rebellion Escalates.
Carpe Diem.
Occam's Tool| 7.12.11 @ 1:57AM
Your problem Clint, is that you think you are defending this country when you advocate abandoning your allies to its enemies. How does your view of Britain differ from Obama's?
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 6:33PM
Clint,
Unlike you, Mr. Koehl is an expert in strategic thinking and writing, and has co-published with Edward Luttwak.
Stuart,
watch out. He'll threaten to punch you next.
Clint| 7.11.11 @ 7:59PM
Like You Israel Firster Screwball Tool Job , College Teacher Stu Is A Lower Than Rear Echerlon REMF Neo-Chickenhawk Coward , Who Attempts To Use Our American Warriors As Cannon Fodder For Parasite Leech Countries,Who Use Our American Warriors & Our Ruling Elite Big Government Confiscated American Taxpayers' Money To Spend On Their Defense & For Foreign Aid For Their Very Same Parasite Leech Foreign Countries Selves Around The Globe, From Europe To The Middle East To Asia.....etc. Ad Infinitum.
Watch Out Neo-Chickenhawk Israel Firster Coward Tool Job,You'll Have To Someday Do Your Own Fightin', Instead of Attemptin' To Get Others To Do Your Fightin' For Ya.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 8:07PM
I kept the Alabama Chain Gang in line for years, Clint. I don't fight. I simply win. You only interest me as a punching bag to take out some frustration on.
Paul voted not to cut off Hamas funding. You agree with him. 'Nuff said."
Occam's Tool| 7.12.11 @ 1:49AM
Is that a threat to me, Clint? How amusing.
Michael Tomlinson| 7.12.11 @ 2:35AM
You have to feel sorry for Clint when his hero, Ron "Earmark" Paul, is one of the biggest hogs when it comes to lapping up government pork and funding Democrat special interest groups.
Ron Paul's pathetic followers are a lot like the silly Lyndon Larouche cult members who live on the fringes of reality. Sometimes they appear sane, but you're always waiting for them to escape from the attic and play with themselves in public.
For all his Tea Party prattle Clinton sounds a lot like an ignorant anti-Semitic MoveOn.org Democrat or a Jackson/Sharpton/Wright/Obama Democrat.
TrueBlue| 7.12.11 @ 3:20PM
Plus the constant threats make it difficult to take anything he says seriously. Nevermind all the angry statements making him sound like every other Liberal when they are losing an argument.
John Navratil| 7.11.11 @ 8:55AM
Yonatan Netanyahu (Benjamin's older brother) commanded that raid and was killed.
Ken in Tyler| 7.11.11 @ 9:23AM
I am personally honored to state here what none of our politicians dares utter:
This "war" on terrorism will end only when the barbaric religion of mass murder is put back in its sandbox whence it came. Get them all out of the US and Europe (which they have been trying to conquer for centuries), put them on camels, take the oil and confiscate the untold trillions paid to their dictators over the years. Divide that wealth among the Western nations and solve Europe's default problems. And anywhere in the world this ugly excuse for a religion dares appear, squash it like the cancer on civilization that it has always been.
There, now I feel better.
Bill| 7.11.11 @ 10:28AM
And then, 100 years from now, our great- great- grandchildren can bathe themselves in shame, and apologize time and time again to the Arabs and Muslims for what their unenlightened savage ancestors did.
Ken in Tyler| 7.11.11 @ 11:03AM
Maybe your great-great-grandkids, Bill. Mine will know better because this family has for generations reared God-fearing, Liberty-loving, freedom-defending believers in the sanctity of the Constitution and the wisdom of the founders. It is a tradition I have already committed to with my own grandkids.
Barbara Frank| 7.11.11 @ 12:25PM
I'm with you, Ken, as are lots of others who are too frightened to identify with you publicly. So sad. Also scary for our side.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 1:04PM
Thank you, Ken. Awesome how many great Kens there are on this site.
Sherman rides again!| 7.11.11 @ 4:03PM
Ken, as a proud NW patriot, I am teaching my kids right as well. Gun control means both hands.
Skippy| 7.11.11 @ 4:31PM
Speak for yourself, Bill.
What a great suggestion, Ken!
God Bless Texas!
C Smith| 7.11.11 @ 9:27AM
Early Sunday morning, July 4, 1976, before America awoke to her 200th year of independence, the lead Hercules flew low over Eilat, the southern most city of Israel. The crew, returning from a covert and still classified mission, was both apprehensive and amazed to see people in the streets waving and embracing and welcoming them home. Seven days earlier Air France 139, in route from Tel Aviv’s Ben Gurion Airport to Paris via Athens, was hijacked in air. Within minutes, Israeli Defense Force (IDF) operatives implemented pre-planned procedures and alerted army units. In Jerusalem, Prime Minister Rabin convened a congruous assortment of defense ministers as the France Airbus flew unexpectedly toward the African continent, eventually landing in Dictator Idi Amin’s Uganda. Shortly after arrival, a list of names was compiled, and as the passengers were separated according to the list “the German word Selektion was muttered around the room - a reminder of Dr. Josef Mengele at Auschwitz choosing those who would live and those who would die” (Maj. Louis Williams, Raid on Entebbe: Entebbe Diary)!
IDF Senior Press Officer Maj. Louis Williams documents the true "mission impossible" that was to follow. He describes the small but elite force of twenty-nine Israeli commandos, a gauntlet of “insurmountable” challenges, and flying into the "heart of Africa" and back again with the logistical precision of seconds. And in the excerpt to follow how even the forces of nature opposed the eventual return of Israel’s children “on eagles’ wings.”
Turning westward, the four Hercules headed into the African continent over Ethiopia. The weather was stormy, forcing the pilots to divert northwards close to the Sudanese frontier…. On the approaches to Lake Victoria, they hit storm clouds towering in a solid mass from ground level to 40,000 feet. There was no time to go around and no way to go above-so they ploughed on through. Conditions were so bad that the cockpit windows were blue with the flashes of static electricity.
The only assault force causality was the young commander of the Hercules squadron Lt. Colonel Jonathan Netanyahu. As his second in command exited the lead Hercules, Rabin and Peres inquired: “How was Yoni killed?” The succinct response: “He went first, he fell first.”
http://theisraelofgod.blogspot.....wings.html
Stuart Koehl| 7.11.11 @ 7:57PM
Osprey Publications has an excellent monograph on the Entebbe mission, "Israel's Lightning Strike: The Raid on Entebbe, 1976", Number 2 in their Raid Series. Despite a spate of revisionist nit-picking, the mission is still considered a classic example of coup de main, and a template for many other hostage rescue missions and airfield raids.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 9:32PM
To pick up. Thanks, Stu.
Yonnie kicked serious tail, miltarily and intellectually. His letters are worth reading.
Occam's Tool| 7.12.11 @ 1:49AM
"militarily." Sorry, Stuart.
RCV| 7.13.11 @ 2:42AM
The Entebbe rescue was one of the great moments in Twentieth century history, where pure good, bravery and love of fellow man triumphed over pure evil. I will never forget the thrill I felt as the world learned what those brave young men had done!
Occam's Tool| 7.12.11 @ 1:56AM
Thank you, sir.
John| 7.11.11 @ 9:56AM
The zinonazis worst nightmare- one person one vote. Please, anything else, but this, I hear them cry. I don't expect much from people who treat the bible as a title deed. Talk about fanatics. American aid to isreal should be linked to it's reabsorption of 8 million Palestinian refugees. And it must give up this foolish idea concerning right of return. It should only apply to Palestinian refugees.
W| 7.11.11 @ 10:29AM
John, by "Palestinian refugees," I assume you refer to the Palestinians who were driven out of Jordan by their fellow Arab Muslims. You do know that Jordan was to be the home of the so-called Palestinians and Israel for the Jews. There are already serveral million Arabas, who you call Palestinians, in Israel, and they enjoy more civil rights in Israel than in any other country in the world, except for the USA, of course. Can you explain when and if there ever was a sovereign state called Palestine? You do know it was merely a geographical description of areas in the Roman Empire and the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire. If you believe the Bible is the Israelis' claim to title, what is the Palestinians' claim to title?
Albert| 7.11.11 @ 11:03AM
Don't waste your breath on "John." He is an apologist for mass murderers, has a wildly skewed sense of "justice," and frankly is not very bright.
W| 7.11.11 @ 11:20AM
You are correct,Albert, but Johnny Muhamed or Johny Jihad regularly posts this nonsense. I know we will not change Johny's "mind," but it is important to refute, and also, it is so easy to refute.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 1:03PM
The Zionnazis? Interesting how the population on the West bank and Gaza continues to grow.
Stuart Koehl| 7.11.11 @ 3:35PM
"And it must give up this foolish idea concerning right of return. It should only apply to Palestinian refugees."
So, you are saying that the various Arab states should not have to take back the several hundred thousand Jews they expelled from their territory in 1948-49?
You know, that number dwarfed the number of Palestinians displaced by the Israel War of Independence (most of whom left their homes voluntarily at the behest of the invading Arab armies). Israel accepted and integrated all of them, even though few spoke Hebrew, and most were totally uneducated and incapable of functioning in a 20th century state without extensive retraining and orientation.
If only the Arab states had seen fit to do the same with the Palestinians, there would be no refugee problem today. Instead, Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon locked up the Palestinians in squalid camps, forbid them to become part of their countries, made them dependent on the United Nations, and nourished their revanchist grievances against Israel.
There would have been a Palestinian state in 1948, but rather than recognizing the boundaries of the partition as modified by the fortunes of war (a war the Arabs initiated), Egypt and Jordan decided to annex the Palestinian territories for themselves.
And from 1948 to 1967, nobody said a word about either of those countries returning Gaza and the West Bank to the Palestinians. Only after Israel invades and occupies those lands (after Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian provocation) in 1967 does anyone remember the poor, downtrodden Palestinians.
Spare me. The Palestinians over the past half century have reaped what they have sown. The could have had their state at any number of points after 1967, but they really don't want one--they just want to kill Israelis. When their priorities change, there will be peace, and not before.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 3:58PM
THANKS, Stuart!
RCV| 7.13.11 @ 2:45AM
There WAS a Palestinian state in 1948, as the Palestinian National Assembly acknowledged when the West Bank was merged into it then
It was called Jordan.
Occam's Tool| 7.12.11 @ 1:50AM
8 million, now. There are only 6 million Jews in Israel, John. You mean to say they are outnumbered, now? I suspect, John, that you are another name for Clint.
George True| 7.11.11 @ 10:27AM
Why hasn't Jordan reabsorbed the so-called Palestinians. After all, they are and always were Jordanians. It is, and always has been the ARABS who have refused to allow the so-called Palestinians to relocate and settle in any of the surrounding Arab countries. This is something that could be accomplished in relatively short order, if the Arabs actually cared at all for their brethren living in artificially imposed exile in Judea these last 64 years. But the ARABS keep them there, because they are useful pawns in keeping the Arab aggression against Israel constantly agitated.
If the so-called Palestinians continue in their mass-murdering war of aggression against Israeli non-combatant civilians, they will continue to reap their richly deserved fate of unemployment, squalor, and death.
Israel has been the ancestral homeland of the Jews for almost all of recorded history. It is NOT Arab land, and never has been. Anyone who says otherwise is in full denial of the known facts. Israel has done nothing wrong, they seek only to co-exist in peace. The Arabs have done everything wrong. Even at this juncture, if they could bring themselves to just leave the Israelis alone, there would be peace today. But, as it is the Arab nature to be murderers and plunderers, they will not ever stop their murdering ways. As a result, sooner or later, they will reap the whirlwind.
John Navratil| 7.11.11 @ 12:30PM
George True,
I was in Amman, Jordan in 1979 (the day of the 100 year flood, actually - that was bizarre!). The driver of the cab in which I was riding asked if I knew how to tell the difference between a Palestinian and a Jordanian. He explained that I should talk to the person. If he seemed intelligent, he was Palestinian and if he seemed stupid he was Jordanian. (I assumed the driver must have been Jordanian ;)
The problem is bigger than Arabs caring for their brethren. If it weren't for the Israeli's to give them a common enemy, they'd be killing each other.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 1:01PM
Now it's 8 million Palestinians. Funny, it started out at 600,000, same as the Jewish refugees from Arab lands. Murdered any 3 month olds today, John?
Stuart Koehl| 7.11.11 @ 5:04PM
The actual number of Palestinian Arabs who fled what became Israeli territory in 1948 amounted to no more than 80,000 people. The number 600,000 includes all those who living in the West Bank and Gaza Strip in 1967.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 6:35PM
Thanks for the correction, Mr. Koehl. You are both more knowledgeable and more gracious than I.
Deleo Sharia Lex.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 6:27PM
Does the term, "The Hashemite dynasty of Jordan are Saudi assholes," ring any bells, George?
By the way, thanks for being you. Unlike me, your posts are always interesting.
John| 7.11.11 @ 11:02AM
In the words of the great Malcolm X- We didn't land on Plymouth Rock–that rock landed on us” … Zionism was a colonising ideology circa 19 th century. The natives, were not, and are still not happy. Sorry you cannot return after two millennia asserting land rights. Can you imagine were this would end if we all behaved in this manner. A palestnian state is definitely coming. And if Isreal's policy of annexation, ethnic cleansing continue then all of isreal may well end up being Palestine. The Zionist dreams killed by their own hands. Oh, the irony of it.
Ken in Tyler| 7.11.11 @ 11:12AM
John, you tip your uninformed racist hand when you quote "the great" Malcolm X. And your post to which I reply addresses none of the excellent and points made by W and George True. In typical lib fashion you dodge the real issues and babble in platitudes. Pah!
W| 7.11.11 @ 11:22AM
Johny Jihad, are you referring to the Malcom X who was killed by fellow black muslims of the Nation of Islam, a Chicaco branch of the religion of peace? Why was he killed?
John| 7.11.11 @ 11:49AM
Mr W,
Lets be clear. The palestnians are native to the country now called Isreal. I know this is a concept that zionists find hard to grasp. This is in totality Palestinian land -it was and it is. Misdirection, obfuscation is the hallmark of the Zionist movement. Endless blah, blah to conceal the rights of the palestinions. You can fool some of the people some of the time but.......
George True| 7.11.11 @ 12:15PM
The Jews have inhabited Israel for the last 5,000 years. The so-called Palestinians (actually Jordanians) are johnny-come-lately interlopers. They have no valid claim. You are fooling nobody but yourself.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 1:02PM
Funny thing, "Palestine" was a shithole when the Muslims politically controlled it and did not let the Jews develop it. Only after the Israelis develop it does it matter to the Vermin like John.
Sherman rides again!| 7.11.11 @ 4:07PM
I believe "Palestine" is Latin for shithole.
George True| 7.11.11 @ 11:41AM
John, your fantasy-world rantings are a perfect reverse barometer of the truth. You know nothing. Correction: You know less than nothing, because everything you think you know is patently false.
As a resident of Bizarro-World, where everything is the opposite of reality, you would be better off posting your childish falsehoods at some jihadist website. You aren't going to persuade anybody here. We are all grounded in the real world.
John Navratil| 7.11.11 @ 12:32PM
George True,
Never try and teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig. - Heinlein
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 8:03PM
Another great Heinlein quote, to those idiots who believe in leaving psychopaths alone:
"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishfull thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers chapter 4 »
Stuart Koehl| 7.13.11 @ 3:43PM
"Tell it to the Carthaginians" is a much more succinct response to the platitude "Violence never settled anything".
John| 7.11.11 @ 7:28PM
People steal land based on biblical fairy tales. And, I'm living in fantasy land. You zionists definitely show alot of chutzpah.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 9:33PM
Dear John---Jews own and possess the Land, and have for 60 plus years. Molon Labe, pig.
Stuart Koehl| 7.12.11 @ 9:09AM
"People steal land based on biblical fairy tales."
First, the Zionists were scrupulous about purchasing land legally and registering those purchases with the civil authorities. That both the landlords and the authorities happened to be Turks is not the fault of the Zionists.
Second, there are no fairy tails in the Bible when it comes to the occupation of the Holy Land by the Hebrews some time around 1250 BC. There is plenty of archaeological evidence. For instance, the Menerptah Stele (ca. 1203) presents a list of victories by the Pharaoh Menerpta on an expedition through Palestine and Syria. Among the many enemies he conquered, he lists "Israel. . . is no more; its seed is not". So, the Israelites were in the Holy Land at the end of the 13th century, indicating they had already been there for some time.
For most of the 19th and 20th centuries, many Western scholars tried to deny the existence of King David, or a House of David, or the existence of a unified Israelite Kingdom under David and his son Solomon (it might be pointed out that they also thought the Babylonian King Nebuchadrezzar was also just a legend).
But the discover of the Tel Dan Stele makes explicit reference to the House of David, while massive construction projects from the 9th century point to the existence of a powerful political entity centered in the Jerusalem highlands and extending into the Nebev and up into Lebanon. If there weren't two kings named David and Solomon, there were two kings just like them living at that particular time and place.
The 9th century Mesha Stela, also known as the Moabite Stone, confirms the rule of Omri of the Kingdom of Israel, and also mentions the House of David--indicating that the Israelite Kingdom had been divided and now subsisted in two dynasties.
Assyrian and Babylonian inscriptions and reliefs confirm much of the later history of the two kingdoms as given in 2 Kings, 1-2 Chronicles, Ezra, and Nehemiah. In addition, seals, signets, and ostrakia found at sites throughout Israel confirm the existence by name of many people mentioned in those books, whose authenticity is thus verified by numerous extrabiblical sources.
Indeed, judged as history, the historical books of the Old Testament hold up very well next to the classical Greek and Roman historians, and, despite the efforts of numerous revisionist "minimialist" archaeologists and historians, validates the basic outline of Jewish history provided therein.
Of the intertestamental period, the reality of the Jews in Judaea, Samaria and Galilee is incontrovertable. People like you may not believe Scripture, but you certainly believe mundane things like tax rolls, property registers and legal decrees. And, as I said, the Jews remained present on the land even through the Babylonian Captivity, Persian rule, Macedonian rule, Roman rule, Byzantine rule, Muslim rule, Crusader rule, and Turkish rule.
On the other hand, the Arabs don't begin to show up until the 7th century AD, and they don't become a majority in the land until the Mamluk population transfer of the 13th century.
By the 19th century, Palestine was practically depopulated as a result of war, desertification and Ottoman misrule. Gazeteers of the era, to say nothing of Mark Twain (Innocents Abroad) speak of traveling all day and not seeing a single living soul except for, perhaps, a handful of wandering Bedouin. Given that Palestine is the size of a postage stamp, that points to a very low population indeed. Yet, in places like Jerusalem and Hebron, large Jewish communities continued to exist, along with pockets of Christians and Druze. Jews throughout late antiquity, the Middle Ages and down to the 19th century, continued to make Aliyah to the Holy Land, usually in their older age, to die in the land of their fathers. Indeed, Hebron was one of the largest Jewish centers in the world, a distinction it held until 1929, when an Arab mob murdered much of the population and drove out the rest. When you hear Palestinians speak of Hebron as an "Arab city", remember how it got that way.
So, no fairy tale at all: the Jews have continuously lived in the land of Israel for more than 3500 years. Hounded and harried from one end of the globe to the next, the Jews have remained true to the Covenants of Abraham and Moses, and have always longed to return to the land promised to them.
If Israel were simply to act in the same manner as its Arab neighbors, there would be no discussion here, because there would be no Palestinians in the West Bank or Gaza, just as there are no Jews in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Algeria, Libya, Morocco, Iran or Iraq.
But then, Muslims are held to one standard, and Jews to quite a different one. Despite which, the Jews still manage to retain both their homes and their humanity. But if the Palestinians continue on their self-destructive course, they are likely to lose both.
ShortNSweet| 7.11.11 @ 2:22PM
And if Isreal's policy of annexation, ethnic cleansing continue then all of isreal may well end up being Palestine.
REALLY?!? John! I was in Israel and also Tirir Square, Cairo two years ago. In Israel the Palestinians roam freely throughout the entire country. Israeli's are not allowed on the Temple Mount, in Jericho, or in Bethlehem and so on. The people that were friendly - Israelis! The people that were antogonistic - Arab and Palestinian! Are you nuts?!?!? You are pounding the desk about a people who hate the jews but they hate you too, dude! So much for your love affair - Don't turn your back on your friends!
Stuart Koehl| 7.11.11 @ 5:14PM
"The natives, were not, and are still not happy. Sorry you cannot return after two millennia asserting land rights. "
Actually, the Jews never left. There was a continuous Jewish presence in what is now Palestine from the second millennium BC. Contrary to popular belief, the Assyrians and Babylonians did not remove the entire populations of Israel and Judah, nor did the Romans expel all the Jews from Judaea, either in 70 or in 135.
Moreover, until the Muslim conquest, there were no Arabs to speak of in what is today Israel, the West Bank, Lebanon or even Syria. In late antiquity, the Near East was a cosmopolitan, polyglot, multicultural society consisting of Christians (predominantly Syrians, Phoenicians, Greeks, Egyptians and Armenians), Jews, and a few die-hard pagans. When the Muslims conquered the region in the 7th century, they did not displace this population, and for the most part, did not manage to convert much of it (at least initially). Instead, a ruling elite was installed over the existing Byzantine bureaucracy, and thus the situation continued down through the 12th-13th centuries. There was a slow but steady flow of converts to Islam under the pressures of dhimmitude, but by the end of the Crusading period, the population of Palestine was still predominantly Christian, with a substantial Jewish minority.
The Mamluk Sultans who led the final Muslim expulsion of the Crusaders felt that the indigenous Christians were not trustworthy, and so they began the ethnic cleansing of the Near East, deporting or removing from the land the indigenous Christians and replacing them with Yemeni fellahin from southern Arabia. Only at that time do Arabs become a majority in Palestine. But the Jews were still there. And so were the native Christians.
If anyone has a right to the land, it is them: because of Shariah law, the Jews and the Christians of the Near East are the direct descendants of the people who lived in the region prior to the Muslim conquest. The so-called Arab Christians are not Arabs at all, but ethnically Greek, Phoenician, Syrian. And, of course, the Jews remain the Jews.
By what right, other than conquest, do the Palestinians demand a state from a people whose right to exist they refuse to acknowledge?
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 7:30PM
Stuart, thank you again. Even when you slam me, you do so with an eloquence and knowledge that I cannot come close to. What a pleasure.
P.S. (Your dictionary came out in 1991. When's the next edition? Hint, hint.)
Stuart Koehl| 7.11.11 @ 8:01PM
Everything is currently so fluid that only a web-based publication would make any sense. I've been giving it some thought--but haven't got a good business case, yet. I could certainly undercut Janes, much of whose information is of use only to a small number of professionals. Perhaps a broader, more general-interest level site could be supported by advertising and perhaps a low subscription fee for premium information.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 8:04PM
Thanks for the answer. Any new publications coming for me to look for?
Stuart Koehl| 7.11.11 @ 8:11PM
I ought to get off my butt, I know. But it's my daughters' last year and first year of college respectively, and I am just burned out for a bit.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 9:34PM
That's what Fans are FOR! I do a great Snoopy dance when a favorite author comes out with a new book.
John| 7.11.11 @ 7:36PM
Dredge up all the history you like- but still does not change the fact that Zionism is a colonising ideology with no right to palestnian lands. It's possible that the UN may vote on a small Palestinian state based on east jerusalem in September. Uncle aipac ain't going to like that. Hopefully next year free Palestine. I'm very upset by the Greek actions regarding the freedom flotilla.
Nick| 7.11.11 @ 7:57PM
John,
"I'm very upset by the Greek actions regarding the freedom flotilla."
Good. I'm glad.
By the way, there never were "palestinian lands". It was the Roman word for Philistine, which the Romans started calling Judea after the wars, to literally wipe Judea of the map.
Palestinians are....ARABS!
Stuart Koehl| 7.11.11 @ 8:09PM
After bar Kochba's Rebellion of AD 135, the Romans merged Judea and Galilee to create a new province called Syria Palaestina, with its capital at Jerusalem renamed Aelia Capitolina after the Emperor Hadrian.
Hadrian prohibited the Jews from entering the city, except on the 9th of Ab, to commemorate the destruction of the Temple at the Wailing Wall. By Byzantine times, restrictions on the Jews in Palestine were more or less forgotten, and the Jewish community thrived in parallel with the new Christian communities that rose in the wake of the Empress Helena's establishment of great pilgrimage churches in Jerusalem (Church of the Anastasis, or Holy Sephulchre), Bethlehem (Church of the Nativity) and elsewhere throughout the region.
Not all Palestinians are Arabs; a good number of them are descendants of Jews and Christians who converted over the course of 1400 years. But most of the Arabs who live in Palestine are not native to the area, having migrated from elsewhere in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The core of the Arab population are the descendants of Yemenis who were imported to the region in the 13th century by the Mamluks--who considered the indigenous Christians to be politically unreliable.
Nick| 7.11.11 @ 11:25PM
Mr. Koehl,
Thanks for the historical details!
Stuart Koehl| 7.11.11 @ 8:10PM
You're kind of an idiot, aren't you, John?
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 9:40PM
Stuart, I must disagree with you about John. You're aiming too high.
May I introduce you to my favorite genetic research toy, Caenorhabditis elegans? Precisely genetically determined to breed true at 302 nerve cells. Unlike John, with those few cells it serves an useful purpose.
Honestly, I tried to find a caffeine resistant mutant of C. Elegans for over a year at TCU, (some 3 decades ago) so my prof could do some mutation experiments, and failed. Taught me that I would rather treat patients than do research in medicine, Stuart. But damn, C. Elegans is such a great animal to use as a putdown!
Stuart Koehl| 7.12.11 @ 1:26PM
You don't think slime molds even better? I mean, the sort of bridge the animal/vegetable boundary. Can't get any better than that.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 9:42PM
Well, Gaza is free Palestine---the israelis withdrew until the rockets came over. Hard to play nice with murderous maniacs.
ShortNSweet| 7.12.11 @ 1:36PM
You can, Stuart, come back after two millenia and assert land rights if the "One" who never breaks His promise, who created it and the "One" who owns it gives it to you, or says that it (the land) is yours.
Oh, just in case you've never heard of Him; the "One" is God the Father, who is in Heaven!
Stuart Koehl| 7.13.11 @ 3:46PM
No need to appeal to a supernatural power (let alone one whom the enemies of Israel do not acknowledge), since the Jews have staked out a continuous presence on the land that supersedes that of the Arabs by something like twenty five hundred years.
Albert| 7.11.11 @ 11:07AM
If there is a movie to be made about the termination of Osama Bin Laden, I figure it will probably be made soon for release next year and the lead character will not be a Seal Team member, it will be President Bozo, whose heroic portrayal will occupy 80% of the movie's screen time. This is after all, Hollywood.
cicero| 7.11.11 @ 1:16PM
Occam,
When I saw your "Sharia es dilenda", I thought you were going to add it to the end of all of your posts until sharia was wiped out.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 3:12PM
Is that the way it should go? I know it was Carthago Delenda Est, but I'm happy to have someone tell me the correct Latin for the same regarding Sharia. Stuart?
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 3:56PM
Deleo Sharia Lex. "Blot out Sharia Law." That should work, and stick in the idiots' throats, like John The Baby-Killer supporter and the worls's simplest nervous system.
"Deleo Sharia Lex."
John| 7.11.11 @ 7:42PM
The word sharia means the path I.e how to live a righteous life. It is not possible to destroy righteousness.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 8:04PM
Yes, like marrying girls off at age 9, and killing the Jews hiding behind a rock, and honor killings. No thanks, Pal.
Skippy| 7.11.11 @ 9:08PM
I got your sharia right here...
skip| 7.11.11 @ 9:46PM
What could be more righteous than worshipping baal?
Occam's Tool| 7.11.11 @ 3:57PM
Sorry, "World's simplest nervous system." Now back to Continuing Medical Education.
By the way, Stuart, loved the Dictionary. Any updates planned?
Naturalborn Texican| 7.11.11 @ 11:55PM
Right on, Stuart K.!!!
The truth will out.....
Marc Jeric| 7.12.11 @ 1:14AM
I think that the Israelis are too sensitive to the West opinion. In their place I would issue an ultimatum to Hams terrorist: you free our soldiers or within 6 hours we will kill 100,000 Gaza inhabitants by massive bombing. And then proceed on schedule. If that soldier is not immediately released, bomb to dust another 250,000 Palestinians. One does not negotiate with subhuman garbage.
Occam's Tool| 7.12.11 @ 1:52AM
Marc, I Doooo like the way you think. Kinda like, Me. I totally agree with you.
weddingdress | 7.12.11 @ 5:12AM
Deleo Sharia Lex. "Blot out Sharia Law." That should work, and stick in the idiots' throats, like John The Baby-Killer supporter and the worls's simplest nervous system.
Eddie| 7.12.11 @ 8:31AM
I remember this event, as youth, and being so proud of Israel. Kicking ass and killing terrorist low-lifes. Sadly, the world kept appeasing and allowing cowards like the PLO and Hamas to flourish. This terrorism thing is in for the long haul. Basically, it has replaced Communism. Hey, it took Sri Lanka 35 years to get rid of the Tamil Tigers. The way the rest of the world treats Israel and the US, I figure it's gonna take us (picking up a few good REAL friends here and there) about the same time, give or take 5 more.
mzk| 7.13.11 @ 8:07AM
Interesting. There is nothing in the article about the U.S. helping Israel. Somehow Clint still complained. Clearly this "libertarian" guise is a front for hatred of Israel (or is it Jews)?
Is Ron Paul the same?
mzk| 7.13.11 @ 8:09AM
Slight correction, Ocaam. We did not withdraw until anything. We're still not in Gaza.
mzk| 7.13.11 @ 8:09AM
To be fair, both Israel and the U.S. were never 100% regararding hostage negotiation.
Stuart Koehl| 7.13.11 @ 3:52PM
No, but in recent years, Israel has violated the cardinal rule of dealing with terrorists: "Never appear to value that which the terrorists are holding at risk". Which is to say, Gilad Shalit and other Israeli soldiers should never have been allowed to become the focus of Israeli concern regarding Hamas and Hezbollah. Despite the difficulties such a stance poses to Israel, deeply conscious of the value of every Jewish life, the Israeli government should simply have said, "We expect our soldiers to be treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention, and we expect them to be returned forthwith. If they are not, then there will be dire consequences for you". And, if the soldiers are not returned or are killed or harmed, then Israel must go out and kill a significant number of terrorists, ideally starting with the top ranking officials and working their way down. At no time should Israel ever agree to swap prisoners, even if it causes political pain or results in the deaths of Israeli captives of the terrorists.