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The Obama Watch
Operation Fast and Spurious
A failed gun-running sting operation by Obama’s gang that couldn’t shoot straight. But who authorized it?
Federal firearms agents feared it would backfire. Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA), chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, has called it “felony stupid.” The response to Operation Fast and Furious has lived up to the program’s name, with the Obama administration under scrutiny for what now seems like a tragically harebrained scheme.
An initiative of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), Fast and Furious was a gun-running sting operation that has gone badly awry, letting hundreds of weapons flow into the hands of Mexican drug cartels and leaving at least one federal agent dead.
When someone walks into an American gun shop to purchase weapons and then pass them along to Mexican drug gangs, it had always been standard operating procedure for the federal government to build cases against these suspected straw buyers quickly and interdict the weapons.
The brainstorm behind Operation Fast and Furious was that letting some of these straw buyers walk off with the semiautomatic weapons would enable the government to move away from targeting small buyers and instead bring down entire arms trafficking networks when the guns were traced. Unfortunately, the weapons too often turned up again only after they had been used in subsequent crimes, including murders.
Two guns linked to Operation Fast and Furious were found at the scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry’s December slaying in Arizona. Terry’s mother was asked what she would say to those responsible if a gun being tracked under the program was the one that killed her son. “I do not know what I would say to them,” she said, “but I would want to know what they’d say to me.”
All told, over 2,000 guns — including AK-47s and .50-caliber rifles, and more than 10,000 rounds of ammunition — were allowed to “walk” into the possession of Mexican drug lords. The ATF admits that nearly 800 of these guns were used in crimes on both sides of the border, endangering American and Mexican lives alike.
Special agents John Dodson, Olindo “Lee” Casa, and Peter Forcelli all told Issa’s congressional committee that their superiors ordered them to allow suspects to walk away with dangerous weapons, often over their strenuous objections. The agents testified that the strategy was never very likely to work, because serial numbers were the only means by which they could track the guns. GPS technology was unavailable. Forcelli called the techniques “delusional,” estimating that guns wound up in Mexico twice as often as the United States, and Casa said he had never heard of letting guns walk before he worked in the ATF’s Phoenix office.
The consensus is that Operation Fast and Furious was “reckless” and a “disaster.” Now the only question is how far up the chain of command the decision-making went. President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder have both said that they did not authorize the program. So who did? So far senior ATF officials have taken the brunt of the blame, but lawmakers are looking at the Justice Department.
“The department’s leadership allowed the ATF to implement this flawed strategy, fully aware of what was taking place on the ground,” Issa and Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA) concluded in their report. “This hapless plan allowed the guns in question to disappear out of the agency’s view. As a result, this chain of events inevitably placed the guns in the hands of violent criminals.”
Congressional investigators uncovered Justice Department memos urging a different approach to handling border violence. “Given the national scope of this issue, merely seizing firearms through interdiction will not stop firearms trafficking to Mexico,” reads an October 2009 memo from then Deputy Attorney General David Ogden’s office. “We must identify, investigate, and eliminate the sources of illegally trafficked firearms and the networks that transport them.”
Issa’s committee has leaked emails showing the acting director of the ATF, Kenneth Melson, and his acting deputy, William Hoover, received weekly updates on the operation’s progress. The Wall Street Journal reported that Melson may be ousted this week in connection with the Operation Fast and Furious controversy.
Attempts to discover more information have led to a standoff between the Oversight Committee and the Obama Justice Department. Last week, Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich protested that some of the requested documents would endanger ongoing prosecutions. Issa held up an entirely redacted document and shouted at Weich. “How dare you make an opening statement of cooperation!” the chairman thundered. “You’ve given us black paper.”
Special agent Forcelli said simply, “Someone needs to step up and say, ‘We made a mistake.’” Things are getting furiouser and furiouser.
About the Author
W. James Antle, III, author of the new book Devouring Freedom: Can Big Government Ever Be Stopped?, is editor of the Daily Caller News Foundation and a senior editor of The American Spectator. You can follow him on Twitter @jimantle.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (102) | Leave a comment
More Articles by W. James Antle, III
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http://spectator.org/archives/2011/06/21/fast-and-spurious
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btims| 6.21.11 @ 6:21AM
The whole purpose of Operation Fast and Furious was to try to strike a blow to American's gun rights. Hatched by the "brains" of Eric "the Red" Holder and of course, the delicate genius himself, Hussein Obama.
Those damn white people need to be disarmed!
Old Soldier| 6.21.11 @ 8:25AM
Yes. This wasn't aimed at the Mexican cartels - it was aimed at me and the Second Amendment.
Calling it stupid is too generous. It was treasonous.
Patrick| 6.21.11 @ 2:55PM
Weren't these the same folks who wailed and gnashed their teeth over Iran Contra?
voted against carter| 6.21.11 @ 6:00PM
American Government Complicit in Smuggling
W e a p o n s Used to K i l l Border Patrol Agent
Confirmed:
OPERATION "GUNRUNNER" FAST &FURIOUS;
Our treasonous rulers have DELIBERATELY allowed American guns to be smuggled into Mexico, so that Obama can use their presence there to UNDERMINE the Second Amendment.
PERIOD.
LarryK| 6.21.11 @ 11:44AM
No they need to, how would Don Corleone say it,
"Fumigated or exterminated"
lydia | 6.23.11 @ 10:42AM
American Government Complicit in Smuggling W e a p o n s Used to K i l l Border Patrol Agent Confirmed:
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Wayne | 6.21.11 @ 12:25PM
I disagree. The purpose was to arm the Mexican cartel against the people of the United States. It is the greatest act of sedition since the Aaron Burr rebellion.
Southern_Comment| 6.22.11 @ 12:48AM
Yep, you hit the nail on the head. Just one of what seems to be daily examples of Obama funding, either with money or weapony countries that are not very fond of us. This is another thing he is going to get away with and another time that we draw closer to death or slavery. I'll bet the NYT isn't running this story and if they are - it's not front page worthy.
Rurik| 6.22.11 @ 4:44PM
Remember that Eric Holder goes all the way back to Janet Reno; he was her deputy. He comes from the same swamp that gave us Waco, Elian Gonzalez and the entire Whitewater-associated swamp. He was there with an inside-the-ring seat fo all the Clinto crimes, and then officiated at the 2000 end of administration pardon pinata. Bet he even knew the truth about what really happened to Ron Brown.
Havoc29| 6.21.11 @ 11:09PM
Absolutely, this administration knew exactly what they were doing with this. This was designed to Watch gun shops sell guns to drug cartels that use them to murder, then they would tell the American public that we need to shut down gun shops.
They had the MSM working for them as well. How many stories have we seen the past year claiming that nearly all guns in the hands of Mexican cartels came from the US? Well, of they were . . . The ATF and DoJ were letting them do it!
Brian | 6.21.11 @ 6:39AM
This is how it starts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHh2FaHdG88
oldfart| 6.21.11 @ 6:45AM
Brains??!! These people have brains? Must be like the appendeix in humans - serves no useful purpose. According to the internet - the appendix does have a useful function in rats.
RAMIII| 6.21.11 @ 9:18AM
This is the mistake. To assume that they are ignorant buffoons. NO they are insidious and pernicious in their ways. They are evil in their policies; this Administration and their ilk.
Harry the Horrible| 6.21.11 @ 9:54AM
Wrong. They (Holder, Obama, et al) thought this out carefully.
They wanted a "crisis," the solution of which would be further curtailment of Americans' Second Amendment Rights. The only thing seems to have gone wrong was that some BATFE agents apparently had principles (hard to believe, I know) and talked.
Unfortunately, there is no downside. The 'Pubbies lack the guts to pursue this and DoJ isn't going to take action against itself, much less the President.
Melvin| 6.21.11 @ 7:16AM
Well....Most of us already see the obvious with this ill conceived and executed plan. As a citizen of the United States and one of many who has defended the Constitution and the citizens that fall under it, I am utterly ashamed.
To the widow and family of that poor unfortunate Border Patrol Agent whose only protection was a shotgun loaded with bean bags, I beseech their forgiveness in the outright guile and stupidity of the Representative form of government that I protected for so long.
It doesn't take a Constitutional Scholar to figure out, of which many assume to be a scheme hatched in darkened rooms in the Department of Justice and by those in the White House.
My fellow Americans, my God have have we stooped so low as to come up with nefarious schemes to remove our God given right to bear arms as it is written in the Constitution?
How could such a soulless bastard come up with such a ruse that would contribute to the demise of this great Country?
Now a man is dead, a wife husband-less, and children fatherless. Those responsible must pay in more than resigning from their position. They are directly responsible for the death of that Border Patrol Agent as if they pull the trigger themselves. And if that culpability extends to Eric Holder and Barrack Obama then so be it.
If an investigation should ensure that it is found out that the DOJ and the White House were in league, then they should face the wrath of that agents family.
That Border Patrol agent believed that his government supported him in his action in the field, but to his demise it was his own government that signed his death warrant.
Anita| 6.21.11 @ 10:09AM
Thank you. The truth always bears out. No matter what light you use to view it, the truth will always be seen.
2012
Purpleguy| 6.21.11 @ 1:14PM
Are you also ashamed that Obama got Osama? Manufactured conspiracy is all you got?
Old Soldier| 6.21.11 @ 1:53PM
Which part is manufactured?
Patrick| 6.21.11 @ 3:09PM
Once again, your deluded presumption that you have wit once again betrays you.
Yes, President Obama finally gave the order to kill Osama. I give him props for that. Now what exactly does that have to do with this?
Someone died?
Let's consider that, since reason is beyond your pitiful reliance upon crudely constructed emotivism. Osama bin Ladin is a bad person who is personally responsible for killing innocent Americans. Agent Brian Terry, on the other hand, worked for the US Border Patrol with a non-lethal weapon as his only defense. These people are on opposite ends of the whole "protecting Americans" thing, and on opposite ends of the lethality of their operational intents.
You sir, are a twit.
Dave Williams| 6.21.11 @ 6:28PM
Oh, if ONLY the Purpster were a mere twit....no, he's a total anti-American ideologue, just like the jug-eared narcissist in the White House...chaos, confusion, and the heartbreak of psoriasis upon them both, and all of their ilk.
Rurik| 6.22.11 @ 4:48PM
Purpleguy is not a twit, he is an SEIU snake visiting us here on official duty.
Patrick| 6.23.11 @ 6:07AM
Well, I didn't want to go that far in the way of vulgarity.
beebop| 6.21.11 @ 6:08PM
He got squat. The intelligence was developed by acts he condemned during the Bush administration. He diddled while making a decision and had no skin in the game.
I am ashamed that he is the leader of this nation. Totally, completely and 100 percent ASHAMED.
c. j. acworth| 6.21.11 @ 6:09PM
Obama got nobody, Purpleguy. The CIA and Navy SEALS got him.
arlo price| 6.21.11 @ 11:42PM
@purplehelmetguy
Are you also ashamed that obummer had to use the fruits of the Bush administrations "enhanced interrogation" techniques in order to get ubl? And it took the ignoramus-in-chief 17 hours to decide whether to kill one of his pagan muslim brothers.
LET'S ROLL!!!
Appleby| 6.21.11 @ 7:19AM
This is what happens when the teenagers are put in charge -- people who gettheir knowledge of the way the world works from tv and Nintendo.
C. S. P. Schofield| 6.21.11 @ 7:26AM
Appleby,
Don't be silly. If people who got their knowledge of the world from video games had been in charge they would have known better than to let effective weapons fall into the hands of their enemies. Video games are pretty straightforward that way.
This is what happens when you let people run things who get their knowledge of the world from Cloistered Intellectuals who are so divorced from reality that they still think of Socialism as a respectable economic theory.
We would have been BETTER OFF with the video games.
Ned| 6.21.11 @ 10:02AM
Not to mention that all the women in government would be WAY better looking, if we used video games as the model. The Hildebeast would be some 7th level master troll, NOT Secretary of State.
irish19| 6.21.11 @ 12:53PM
I think she's both, although 7th level may be an understatement.
Patrick| 6.21.11 @ 3:11PM
No, the 7th level ones are the ones that spit poison like cobras. Ever notice those venom sacs in her jowls?
irish19| 6.21.11 @ 7:18PM
I try real hard not to look that closely at her jowls. You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din.
TrueBlue| 6.21.11 @ 3:08PM
If video game playing teenagers were in charge there wouldn't have been any diplomacy, they'd have just gone in guns blazing, with the same (or better) weapons the ATF gave away to the cartels.
Patrick| 6.21.11 @ 3:11PM
RPG FTW!
zenga| 6.21.11 @ 7:49AM
this whole idiotic scheme is so incredibly, unbelievably stupid, one feels there must be something that we don't know. like a critical piece of the puzzle is being left out. it simply makes no sense. but regardless of what, if indeed anything, might be revealed in the future, it is clear that holder needs to be fired over this. it occurred on his watch, and the fact that anyone could possibly believe that such a harebrianed scheme would be sanctioned by the ultimate boss, holder, means that he is at least culpable for hiring idiots and then not telling them what was and what wasn't acceptable. the ultimate authority is always the one to blame, whether or not he knew about it, because the people who worked for him were not better led, and guidance from the top didn't make it clear that "you can't be a mindless idiot, endagering the lives of Americans, on my watch." and if it is shown that he actually knew about it, holder should be held criminally liable. because then he would be at fault for the death of an American. indeed, there is a valid argument to be made that obama is also responsible. but without some evidence to prove he knew about this idiocy, it's a waste of time trying to do anything about it.
Wayne | 6.21.11 @ 12:27PM
When Obama first stated that neither he nor Holder knew anything about this, it became obvious that Obama certainly did know about it. How else would he have known that Holder knew nothing about it?
beebop| 6.21.11 @ 6:11PM
Maybe he should have thought through the ramifications of denial when there is truth. Weiner, anyone?
Wayne | 6.21.11 @ 12:27PM
When Obama first stated that neither he nor Holder knew anything about this, it became obvious that Obama certainly did know about it. How else would he have known that Holder knew nothing about it?
Mel Torme| 6.21.11 @ 7:58AM
The brainstorm behind Operation Fast and Furious was that letting some of these straw buyers walk off with the semiautomatic weapons would enable the government to move away from targeting small buyers and instead bring down entire arms trafficking networks ... blah, blah ..."
Bullcrap - don't be so naive, Antle. The "Brainstorm" behind this was to get enough American-bought guns into Mexico to bring that percentage of the cartel's guns higher. This way, they can try to match their BS number of 90 % (included only guns with serial numbers, a small percentage, and doesn't explain any of the fully-auto weapons). The big idea was to use this to scare American sheep into more gun control here.
This gunwalker mess wasn't about stupidity; this was more on the evil side. You have to dig deeper to see this difference.
Mike Vanderboegh (sp?) of the SipseyStreetIrregulars site has been writing about this story for over half a year. He has all the details. Also, David Codrea of the gun "examiner" site was on this early, but the "examiner" sites throw so much pop-up crap on my screen that they are not worth trying to get to some text.
POST American| 6.21.11 @ 8:00AM
---In this age of Globalist 'shadow government
agendas' and TOTAL cyber surveillance ---is there
anyone out there who still believes the establishment authorities are not in utter control
of drug trafficking?
Patrick| 6.21.11 @ 3:16PM
While there is some corruption going on, and liberals need their drugs to keep up the crazy, and therefore allow nice big blind-spots and gaping holes for the drugs to flow into their mansions, control is .... just not there.
Oh, and if there was as much cyber surveillance going on, catching pedophiles on television shows would be more difficult, since they would be in jail.
Louis Jenkins| 6.21.11 @ 8:07AM
The article says 800 guns. Yesterday I read as many as 8,000 guns may have been let walk over the border. The ATF, the justice dept. and the administration are no friend of ours if this is how they handle things as though we weren't aware. This is a concerted effort to control arms in America. Get rid of our rights.
Bruce| 6.21.11 @ 8:39AM
Louis;
The article says 2,000 guns, 800 of which have been used in crimes. over 2,000 guns -- including AK-47s and .50-caliber rifles, and more than 10,000 rounds of ammunition -- were allowed to 'walk' into the possession of Mexican drug lords. The ATF admits that nearly 800 of these guns were used in crimes"
Louis Jenkins| 6.21.11 @ 11:28AM
Dear Bruce:
That is what the ATF admits to. Sorry Bruce, but I read it somewhere, almost impossible to say since I visited so many websites yesterday. Two thousand is the polite number to quote and more believable. However, do not discount the ability of our DoJ, nor the administration.
Louis Jenkins| 6.21.11 @ 8:13AM
PS: Don't forget, the UN is still working on the treaty which will outlaw US publicly held guns. Hillary and her Moslum Brotherhood co-horts are still bent on it. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Fredrick Ward| 6.21.11 @ 11:41AM
Where are you getting this information from?
Pecos Pete| 6.21.11 @ 12:45PM
Do a Google search for "united nations gun control" and you will find over 4 million hits and lots of factual information.
TrueBlue| 6.21.11 @ 3:31PM
Sadly it's been worked on for quite some time; http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=36639
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=38103
And that's just a couple of the articles.
TrueBlue| 6.21.11 @ 3:32PM
Any dictator governments would support this motion, since it means their citizens couldn't be armed to overthrow them.
David W| 6.21.11 @ 8:15AM
Let's hope that the Republican nominee will help bring this out during the final campaign. It would be great if, as part of the debate on securing the souther border, Michelle/Sarah/Herman/etc were to ask Obama why did his office support this. then see the BS fly.
Redstateboy| 6.21.11 @ 9:48AM
Good thought David... that would be interesting watching Das Messiah - without his teleprompter -attempting to answer some questions about this off the top of his pointed head.
SB| 6.21.11 @ 12:26PM
If that nominee id Romney, it won't happen. You won't find a more anti-gun RINO except maybe Lugar and Mike Castle.
Petronius| 6.21.11 @ 8:35AM
Will the day ever come when these Despocrats ever pay in kind for the fall of blood they cause?
irish19| 6.21.11 @ 12:57PM
Doubtful. I don't believe the Rs have the testicular fortitude necessary to brave the accusations of racism and meanness that would be thrown their way by the M(etrosexual)SM media should they try to call zero and his clown posse to account.
Patrick| 6.21.11 @ 3:27PM
In this life no. Republicans, the majority of whom are steeped in Christian beliefs, are stuck with this whole "Mercy" thing.
In the next, well, Rom 12:19 comes to mind.
Anthony| 6.21.11 @ 8:39AM
Don't expect Issa and the Rs to get to the "brains" of this fiasco, which are Holder and Obozo. I saw Issa this morning on FOX, and he barely mentioned Holder and never once mentioned Obozo.
Apparently, the Rs are willing to let the head of ATF take the hit and end it there.
Do the Rs not remember how Obozo and Holder used this ruse, that American weapons were finding their way into Mexico, to call for more 2nd Amemdment control?
Are Issa and the Rs so completely incapable, timid, and stupid,that they can't connect the dots directly to the White House? Or are they just complicit rubes?
If this was Reagan or Bush, calls for impeachment would have already started, and the MSM would be in high dungeon.
Washington is a bad joke and we Americans are bearing the brunt of this bad joke. We need to get a hook and yank these clowns off stage.
Patrick| 6.21.11 @ 3:32PM
Call his office.
D.C. office: 202-225-3906
District office: 760-599-5000
Junius| 6.21.11 @ 8:50AM
Doesn't anyone remember when there was a drumbeat in the media months ago how the Mexican drug cartels were obtaining the bulk of their weapons from gun dealers in the USA and how more gun control was needed in the USA? Remember the phrase "never let a good crisis go to waste"? Does this axiom apply to a deliberately manufactured crisis by an administration and political party dedicated to the outright ban of gun ownership in this country? Something as illegal and criminal as this ATF program involving shipping guns to another country had to have been approved at the very top and carried out by the willing stooges of this administration. Holder, Napalitano, and Obama had to have been aware and approved this appalling operation which has resulted in the death of a border patrol agent and who knows how many other people. Remember we were reminded this week by Michelle Obama that Barack reads every memo and is better informed than anyone else in his administration. Thank you Michelle for that very revealing fact about our first Communist president. This whole operation falls under the heading of 'High Crimes and Misdemeanors. This is a very big scandal.
Keep it simple| 6.21.11 @ 9:24AM
What is the most obvious motive for putting guns in the hands of drug wholesalers? Money. The drug criminals have lots of money. Maybe they just bought some guns from Uncle Sam. If so we can expect that the money went to those politicians who really needed it. (Sarcasm)
The theory that this was all a hoax to shame the Republicans for supporting the Second Amendment could be true but it seems so roundabout and comical.
Why don't we keep it simple and look for the money connection?
voted against carter| 6.21.11 @ 5:56PM
American Government Complicit in Smuggling W e a p o n s Used to
K i l l Border Patrol Agent Confirmed:
OPERATION "GUNRUNNER" FAST &FURIOUS;
Our treasonous rulers have DELIBERATELY allowed American guns to be smuggled into Mexico, so that Obama can use their presence there to UNDERMINE the Second Amendment.
PERIOD.
Matthew Quigley| 6.21.11 @ 9:27AM
To anyone with a lick of sense, and that leaves out the media and 99.9999999 percent of Republicans, this was a calculated attack on the Constitution. The Commiecrats were trying to find a way to back up their propaganda charges about US firearms being in the hands of Mexican gangs, and their attempt was found out. The fact that Issa is barely mentioning Holder, and ignores Hussein entirely, shows me that NO ONE wants to address the 800 pound gorilla in the room: The intention of this regime to destroy the Constitution and make the United States subservient to a foreign power, likely the UN. The UN "small arms" treaty would have the effect of overruling our Second Amendment, and by disarming a free citizenry, make those free citizens into slaves unable to defend theselves against the despotism of the government in DC and its cohorts on the East River.
The time is coming when we'll either have to put up or shut up...we can thrown these usurpers out with ballots...or we can defend our liberties with bullets. That's neither polemic nor hyperbole. It's a plain statement of fact. Think it can't happen here? Twenty years ago, no one would have thought we'd have an open Marxist in the White House...now we have "Spread the Wealth (Marxism)" Obama in there, so whatever comes next is a natural progression of having a despot as president.
Lock and load.
irish19| 6.21.11 @ 1:00PM
Soapbox, ballot box, cartridge box.
Hopefully, we won't get to the third one.
Drunken Sailor| 6.21.11 @ 4:53PM
Wooden Box. Let's hope that is where Eric Holders career ends up.
Redstateboy| 6.21.11 @ 9:42AM
The Hussein Regime has some splain'n to do but sadly the Lame Stream Media will click it's heels and salute and do nothing... the fawning Liber-ul Obamabots - if challenged - will say.. "well Bush was worse!" or someother stupid and nonsensical blather.. The only thing we can do is Work to replace this incompetent Socialist Regime with a competent Constitutional Conservative Administration of adults.
Brian B| 6.21.11 @ 9:55AM
--President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder have both said that they did not authorize the program. So who did?--
There's some cynical, hard hitting journalism for ya.
They said they didn't so obviously we need to look elsewhere.
Thomas| 6.21.11 @ 10:13AM
I used to come to TAS for intelligent, reasoned discourse. Now, it seems that most people here parrot the tinfoil hat government conspiracy crowd. There is no evidence that there was any larger goal to this operation than has been stated. In fact, the very fact that the laws worked in this case, the firearms dealers notified the BATFE quickly and exactly as they should have, would work against a case for more gun control laws. This should have led to a swift interdiction of these weapons. And it would have, except for the decision by highly placed government officials not to implement the law. The government would be hard pressed to use this operation to justify further gun controls.
No this is more likely exactly what it looks like. A bizarre contraband tracing operation that was conceived and run by people with no experience in this sort of thing, who refused to listen to the objections of experience personnel who DID have experience in this area. This happens regularly in government circle. McNamara and the Whiz Kids is a good example.
This is what it is, a glowing example of criminal incompetence and hubris. But, to stretch this operation into a coordinated attack on American gun rights is absurd.
As to the UN Small Arms Treaty, it is impossible to speculate on what effect it would have on the U.S. The simple fact is that it does not exist. Negotiations to produce a draft version will not tke place until 2012 and there is no way of knowing what will be incorporated into such a treaty, if anything. Add to that the facts that any treaty has to be ratified by the U.S. Senate to be binding, that U.S. laws would have to be passed to implement it and the fact that no law or treaty can override rights enumerated in the Constitution and the UN Arms Treaty is not very high on my list of concerns.
Melvin| 6.21.11 @ 10:43AM
Evidence of malice. Come on Thomas, Like we half expect Barrack Obama, or Eric Holder to say. " OK, guys you got red handed, do what you will."
The one fact is, Obama did publicly admit. We're doing some things, but we're doing them under the radar."
BD57| 6.21.11 @ 10:44AM
@Thomas:
The conspiracy angle comes up because (a) people (rightly, IMO) believe the Obama Administration would like much more restrictive gun laws; (b) F&F's change from past practice - from interdicting the guns to allowing them to pass through - obviously put more guns in the hands of the cartels, which would obviously lead to more guns being seized/recovered from the cartels; (c) while all this was going on, the Administration was out there claiming American gun shops were the major source of arms for the Mexican drug cartels (the 90% lie, etc.); and (d) we have an Administration which believes "never let a crisis go to waste."
While gross incompetence is an explanation, it sure is "convenient" how F&F helped advance a narrative favored by the Obama Administration ... (and then you add on the flat-out lies the Administration told to further advance the narrative).
Community Organizers know a lot about manipulating people; so do politicians. Just about any sentient being could predict that some day, one of the guns ATF allowed to walk would show up as the murder weapon of an American law enforcement officer. Likewise, the fallout from that becoming public is pretty easy to predict. You'd expect people "in the loop" of developing such a program would be aware of the potential consequences and, being bureaucrats, would be risk-averse.
That didn't happen here. The "higher ups" were warned - they didn't care. Why not? The most obvious explanation is "They were following orders." So you go up the chain of command & eventually you reach the "Idiot Responsible" a/k/a the person who OK'd F&F in the first place. So ... "Who is the Idiot Responsible?"
And then there's this:
Are we to believe no one in the Administration was briefed on F&F when they were given the statistics they used to claim Americans were supplying the majority of the Mexican drug cartel arms?
When did the Administration find out what F&F was doing? Did anyone there say "that's crazy, you're giving the cartels guns to kill Americans"? Did the Administration immediately shut it down? Or not? If the Administration allowed F&F to go on for even one more day after it found out what was happening, it is complicit.
THAT would be an interesting question to research .... when did the Administration learn what was going on in F&F and when was it shut down?
I suspect the answer is "Well before it became public via reporting, at which time it was shut down for fear of further political embarrassment."
Wayne | 6.21.11 @ 12:30PM
It comes up for me, because I see him wanting his private Army and he is commissioning the Mexican drug cartels to be that Army. It goes way beyond the 2nd amendment.
irish19| 6.21.11 @ 1:06PM
"he is commissioning the Mexican drug cartels to be that Army"
While he does indeed want his private army, I think you may be reaching a bit with this one.
There was a piece yesterday on American Thinker about military style operations being conducted by the TSA at a number of locations. I think it more likely that this constitutes at least the start of that private army.
TrueBlue| 6.21.11 @ 3:46PM
Still trying to find out why the TSA has any kind of military-style outfit in the first place, but heck even the Dept of Ed has its own SWAT style team...
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offic.....tement.pdf
Law enforcement arm of the DoE? Seriously? When did the Dept of Education suddenly become a police force?
irish19| 6.21.11 @ 7:23PM
I saw that as well-I think it was at the Rott (nicedoggie.net). Probably all part of the same thing.
The more I think about this, the more I think that this will not end well or cleanly.
Keep your powder dry and mind your topknot.
dc| 6.21.11 @ 10:53AM
Right, Thomas--move along, nothing to see here, everything's ok. A greasy fascist ass monkey whose whole life has been spent with people who despise this country, whose every written word (that's not teleprompted) belies hate and disgust for the Constitution and non-Van Jones Americans, would NEVER think to orchestrate (or have his virulently racist minion, Holder, orchestrate) a project that simultaneously worsened border violence, undermined border control, entrapped legal firearms dealers, killed American citizens, and tried to augment government power. No, that would be way out of character. Rank incompetence can't explain this, and you know it, you'd just prefer not to think about it, because when you do, it takes you to places you'd rather not go. Well, sorry, we're there already. There is no depth that this filthy bastard wouldn't plumb to undermine this country and its Constitution. He and everyone he's ever respected, publicly or in writing, has said so, in writing, repeatedly. When are you going to wake up and listen? This dumbass project is merely one of many symptoms of a metastasizing cancer. Whether it's terminal cancer or not will depend upon the decision American voters make in Nov. 2012.
gs425| 6.21.11 @ 11:03AM
wake up.
Mel Torme| 6.21.11 @ 12:21PM
I was going to write a long reply to Thomas, but, your 2-word one, gs425, says it all.
Lots of people need to wake up. All will eventually wake-up, but, unfortunately a majority may wake up to think they got magically transformed into the year 1984, in the pages of a George Orwell novel turned to non-fiction.
Anthony| 6.21.11 @ 12:26PM
So Thomas, You really accept the official government policy concept for Operation Fast and Furious, eh? Shall we examine the rationale?
Let's see, the government sets up an elaborate sting operation that puts guns into the hands of Mexican drug dealers, just so as to facilitate a case directly against "alleged" America arms traffickers, as opposed to some straw buyers.
Is that the essence of this insane Rube Goldberg scheme? And for what purpose, as if the Mexicans can't obtain weapons from without America???
To continue, the operation is directed against some fictional American gun traffickers, who become the focus of these weapons getting into the hands of Mexican drug dealers, and then, are conveniently blamed for the gun violence at the boarder, which the left uses and morphs as an attack against the 2nd Amendment, and when Congress asks legitimate questions , Obozo's Justice Department refuses to cooperate.
Yep, it's a classic Obozo/Holder twofer, an insane policy with a leftist political component.
buckeyeman| 6.21.11 @ 2:50PM
Well, Thomas, .... I, too tend to be skeptical of most of the conspiracy theories. Liberals all act about the same because they all think about the same.
This gun-runner things strikes me as maybe different. First, there was the odd PR/media putsch about how many drug cartel guns were being traced back to the US. This never passed the smell test to me. It just didn't seem realistic and the PR aspect seemed too coordinated.
Second, the purported goal of the gun-runner program never had a prayer of succeeding. Once the guns left the US they were no longer traceable, so just how was the program supposed to allow us to find the big shots. This is so transparently flawed that I can't picture a group of adults sitting around a conference table agreeing on it. I can, however, see a group of committed anti-gun ideologues agreeing to do this to achieve their ulterior puposes.
Strangely, the PR campaign about how many drug cartel guns are being traced to the US has simply evaporated. But of course, it's not strange at all. An illegal program to try to fabricate a reason to clamp down on US gun ownership has blown up in their faces.
I can't prove it (yet). Hopefully Issa will. I believe both Holder and Obama knew and approved of this program. If that is true, then both of them lied to the American people about this (and yes, I know they've lied innumerable times before about almost everything, but this is different).
In my mind, "Fast and Furious" wasn't just a bad idea. It was criminal. Sure, law enforcement has some leeway to make sting operations and such, but this program can hardly be squeezed into that category. I suspect Obama and Holder are terrified of letting the light of day shine on this smelly mess. Their sudden decision to take some cases to court is a transparent attempt to try to stonewall the investigation. Why would they do this if they could just throw the head of ATF to the wolves? Thomas, give this another look.
voted against carter| 6.21.11 @ 5:54PM
American Government Complicit in Smuggling W e a p o n s Used to K i l l Border Patrol Agent
Confirmed:
OPERATION "GUNRUNNER" FAST &FURIOUS;
Our treasonous rulers have DELIBERATELY allowed American guns to be smuggled into Mexico, so that Obama can use their presence there to UNDERMINE the Second Amendment.
PERIOD.
Pete| 6.21.11 @ 10:24AM
Why does this surprise anyone? This follows the same model we have seen to the letter.
1) Create or identify issue
2) Use media to falsely inflate to "crisis" status
3) Exploit crisis to achieve statist goal(s)
Over and over and over and over. They count on people being stupid and/or believing the mainstream media. I pray that assumption is where their scheme fails.
Rick V.| 6.21.11 @ 11:32AM
Guns don't kill people, people kill people ... with guns provided by the DOJ and ATF.
LarryK| 6.21.11 @ 11:44AM
How high up does it go? Obama??
dc| 6.21.11 @ 12:33PM
To echo some others above, wake up. Just as in any third-world dictatorship, the minions don't so much as jerk off without express authorization from Dear Leader. And Holder is a bag man--while he has the ideological chops to perpetrate the scheme, he wouldn't dare have authorized it without his messiah's blessing. Unfortunately, no more than some fraction of one percent of the U.S. media will ask these types of questions, for fear of being ostracized by Dear Leader's administration, and/or branded "racist", etc. etc. etc. No surprise, and I'll boil my shoes for dinner if this is the only agency-sponsored 2d Amendment undermining project that's being or been perpetrated by these totalitarian thugs.
big bob| 6.21.11 @ 12:52PM
This is Same Ole Stuff. Had this all gone "well", and done what they wanted, (TBDetermined) Obama would have claimed credit for 100% of the effort!!! Remember, he personally oversaw the SEal Team 6 and their training for Osama's execution; he made the day to day calls and he did this and he did that.... Does ANYONE honestly think in their heart of hearts that this narcisisstic self-absorbed man-child did NOT know about this??? He wants guns vanquished from our society. Everything he is about points to tyranny. How in heaven's name could Holder be executing this fiasco without the presidente's approval??? None of this makes sense. Holder has let every one go who has committed crimes against our country, and he is litigating almost everyone who is trying execute our laws. He is a dewfus, and he has the presidente's ear...daily. Put the pieces together.
Nunya| 6.21.11 @ 1:02PM
Everyone but the mainstream media is going to ask the question "How high up in the administration does this go?", with no result. As was stated above, if Obozo or Holder knew OF the operation and they continued to allow it to happen, they are complicit IN the operation. Anyone with an IQ over 40 could recognize that this was a bad idea to begin with, and that once the guns crossed the border there was no way to track them. It is inescapable that this would lead to additional violence in the border area, and it's absolutely conceivable that it could mean a danger to Americans--not even counting the Mexicans hurt or killed. Now, with the actual killing of an American Border Patrol officer, what do you think the administration would do? Stand up and say "Yes, we knew of this, and as honorable men we are resigning."??? Really? Far better to deny, deny, deny, and hope your lackeys in the media turn to American Idol and away from your complicit behavior in the murder of an American.
I know it will never happen, but Obozo, Holder, et al, need to be investigated, and if found to be complicit in this idiotic scheme, held as accessories to murder.
ABNCP| 6.21.11 @ 1:55PM
Does anyone believe that Agent Brian Terry will be the last or only American who will be killed because of F/F? Obama and Holder aren't as brilliant or omnipotent as the propaganda our corrupt media has been shoveling out for years would have us believe. Read Cashill's book, "Deconstructing Obama". In it Cashill proves conclusively William Ayers write the books, "Dreams From My Father", and "The Audcity of Hope". Of course, our liar in chief crowed he had written both books himself. The media fell all over themselves slobbering over how brillilant Obama is. Headlines like, "Obama is the best writer to occupy the White House since Lincoln" came out frequently. But the reality that is now becoming more and more appearant is this fool spouts misinformation, disinformation, half truths and damm lies. So I have no problem believing Obama and Holder were so stupid they approved the operation but could not fully understand where F/F was going to take them. And yes, the only concept that makes any sense is that F/F was meant to damage 2nd Amendment rights and that was all the fools were focused on.
Uli Kunkel| 6.21.11 @ 2:34PM
With the lawlessness in Mexico, why wouldn't the cartel's be able to get arms any number of ways? Oh say, off-loaded from ships and boats along the Mexican coast line directly from Venezuela, Cuba, or any anti-American country that sells arms!!!
Pecos Pete| 6.21.11 @ 3:10PM
The cartels' cash could buy several boat loads of guns from anywhere in the world. And we are to believe that they are gonna buy 2,000 AK-47s in Arizona/New Mexico/Texas/California?
The cartels buy drugs from Asia, why not guns too? Heck, both guns and drugs would be on the same boat for expediency.
Jim Eilert| 6.21.11 @ 2:41PM
you can see lots of detail - much more than reported here by going to David Codrea's site and The Sipsey Street Irregulars. They "broke" the story in December, and have provided exposure weekly since. Because of them, Sen. Grassley, then Re. Issa started pushing ....
Slacker| 6.21.11 @ 4:29PM
Of course this goes all the way to the top and of course linking legally purchased US guns to Mexican cartels to justify gun control was the goal. Would the AFT really come up with something this crazy? Something thier own agents did think was workable?
Naturally the whole plan seems reckless and hairbrained when viewed as a law enforcement operation. It makes perfect sense when seen as Chicago community organizer politics.
Good upstanding folks have a hard time wrapping thier minds around stuff like this because they aren't accustomed to the schemes of sneaky liars.
Imagine what Obama's second term is going to look like.
Akaky| 6.21.11 @ 4:36PM
I'm more or less confident that the former junior senator from Illinois will keep his minions out of an American courtroom, but I wonder what happens when the Procurador General de la Republica starts demanding answers. We should be outraged by the death of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry; we should be equally outraged by the deaths of hundreds of Mexican police, soldiers, and civilians at the hands of drug cartels armed by idiots in high places in the United States government who should have looked at whoever first proposed this program and said, "Are you effing nuts?!"
voted against carter| 6.21.11 @ 5:50PM
American Government Complicit in Smuggling W e a p o n s Used to K i l l Border Patrol Agent Confirmed:
OPERATION "GUNRUNNER" FAST &FURIOUS;
Our treasonous rulers have DELIBERATELY allowed American guns to be smuggled into Mexico,
so that Obama can use their presence there to UNDERMINE the Second Amendment.
voted against carter| 6.21.11 @ 5:50PM
American Government Complicit in Smuggling W e a p o n s Used to K i l l Border Patrol Agent Confirmed:
OPERATION "GUNRUNNER" FAST &FURIOUS;
Our treasonous rulers have DELIBERATELY allowed American guns to be smuggled into Mexico,
so that Obama can use their presence there to UNDERMINE the Second Amendment.
voted against carter| 6.21.11 @ 5:50PM
American Government Complicit in Smuggling W e a p o n s Used to K i l l Border Patrol Agent Confirmed:
OPERATION "GUNRUNNER" FAST &FURIOUS;
Our treasonous rulers have DELIBERATELY allowed American guns to be smuggled into Mexico,
so that Obama can use their presence there to UNDERMINE the Second Amendment.
crossworked | 6.21.11 @ 6:46PM
Our founders knew exactly the propensity of man. I have no guns but appreciate their knowledge of the character of man. The second amendment will save the union once again from all challenges from without and within. I thank God we have numerous nuke subs that can stand ready for 20 years with their training. Something the other side is trying to defeat or undermine.
irish19| 6.21.11 @ 7:26PM
"I have no guns"
Might be time to think about getting a couple.
Ed| 6.21.11 @ 8:03PM
The only way the current administration can gut the Second Amendment is to let them. If the feds try to confiscate my firearms, I have to tell them I have them. Pennsylvania has no firearms registraiion law. If they want them, they have have to come get them. I have ammo too. "The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of tyrants and patriots alike." Thomas Jefferson
irish19| 6.21.11 @ 8:08PM
You'll be turning over the bullets first, then?
s bennett| 6.21.11 @ 10:02PM
Be very,very afraid of the second term.
Southern_Comment| 6.22.11 @ 1:18AM
No second term. Unless he does something silly like declare Marshall law - hmmm maybe that's the plan because his chances at being reelected are pretty slim (orgs like Acorn not included).
As far as the gun rights, well I'm in the South, Alabama and Texas (two homes) as well, and I can't say that other than in Huntsville, I know too many people who would stand for infringement of their right to bear arms, especially now.
Which brings me to the third point, I'm glad I'm a Christian so I can pray that we don't end up in another civil war/revolution whatever you care to call a domestic uprising. It's not that I even want to admit that the reason for not doing so is out of fear. The United States of America is spread too thin already with too many outside groups either desiring our failure (stupidly I might add) or who are ready for that moment when we are at our weakest - what's more weak than infighting? Have we been so desensitzed to violence by the liberal media and so trained to master the short attention span that we are not looking at the ramifications of our actions? I realize that liberals have issues with understanding the simple principle of cause and effect, but we as conservatives have no problem understanding it. So, what happens if there is indeed an uprising? What are the risks that go along with that? How can we alleviate ourselves of the disasterous administration? It's not just him, just like Al Queda is not just Osama. There's whole organizations that back him and more that could possibly be ready to assist. Yes, we're in danger I doubt any conservative would question that. I just cannot believe that advocating revolution would get us anything but more trouble, unless it was the shortest one ever. We have to believe in our system and act with civility in playing this game. . . or maybe that's what's gotten us to this point.
P McIntire| 6.23.11 @ 3:23PM
This brings to mind, "Lucy, you got some 'spaining' to do..."
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From the Border| 6.28.11 @ 9:09PM
Why no mention of "Project Gunrunner?" The project started in 2005 under the Bush Administration. The way I see it, both the Bush and Obama administrations should receive equal blame for this fiasco--Bush for allowing the project to begin and Obama for allowing it to continue.