The American Spectator : Overdrawn at the Ideas ATM

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Overdrawn at the Ideas ATM

By Iain Murray on 6.17.11 @ 6:08AM

The president’s Luddite moment.

President Obama recently blamed today’s high unemployment on… automation. Yes, you heard at right. He singled out automatic teller machines (ATMs), which he said have eliminated many human bank teller jobs. Blaming an invention for job losses is a display of economic ignorance worthy of the Luddites. Not only are Obama’s comments wrong at a factual level, they display a complete lack of basic knowledge about the means of human progress. For a self-styled “progressive” to make this mistake displays how bankrupt that ideology is.

For a start, President Obama is wrong as a matter of fact. From 1985 to 2002, U.S. banks added some 300,000 ATMs around the country, but also added 42,000 bank teller jobs. The Bureau of Labor Statistics predicted in 2010 that a further 40,000 or so teller jobs would be added by 2018 — presumably not as the result of mass removal of ATMs. ATMs allow banks to employ tellers in more useful services than simply counting and distributing money, as well as serve customers during late night hours when it is not feasible to keep branches open.

Automation doesn’t destroy jobs. It frees us from mundane tasks so that we can do other, more complex — and more rewarding — tasks. The washing machine didn’t put housewives out of work; — it enabled them to have careers. The industrial revolution allowed people to leave the fields and enter factories, where, despite popular conceptions of “satanic mills,” they could earn far better livelihoods. As the great economist Joseph Schumpeter noted, the genius of the free market and the automation is that it “does not typically consist of providing more silk stockings for queens but in bringing them within reach of factory girls in return for steadily decreasing amounts of effort.”

This, incidentally, is why affordable energy is important. We burn fossil fuels to provide energy so that men and women do not have to supply their labor directly. As Thomas Edison remarked, “I am ashamed at the number of things around my house and shops that are done by animals — human beings, I mean — and ought to be done by a motor without any sense of fatigue or pain. Hereafter a motor must do all the chores.”

The progressives’ failure to appreciate the value of automation is at its most apparent in their greatest invention — bureaucracy. At a time when, by my calculations, a quarter of the American labor force works either directly or indirectly for government, the administration appears intent on increasing that number. As more and more pages of new rules are added to the Federal Register (a record 81,000 of them last year), more and more people must be employed, not by the government, but by businesses to comply with the new rules.

So far from freeing humanity from fatigue and drudgery, which is the story of automation, “progressive” policies have only added to the burden. Lip service to more “efficient” government does not obviate the fact that people have to read, interpret, and understand the regulations in the first place, under penalty of law. The more new rules accumulate, the harder this task becomes.

It is no wonder that the stimulus failed, if the President so misunderstands the way the world works. In Los Angeles, two city departments received between them $111 million from the stimulus but “saved or created” a mere combined total of 55 jobs. Such is the cost of bureaucracy.

Automation is a product of innovation, which is America’s genius, and has proved essential to making our lives better. When the President denounces it as a bad thing, we may be in economic trouble, indeed.

About the Author

Iain Murray heads the Center for Economic Freedom at the Competitive Enterprise Institute and is the author of Stealing You Blind: How Government Fatcats Are Getting Rich Off of You.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (74) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Intelligent Design| 6.17.11 @ 6:55AM

This dolt is really going to freak out when he sees me making a bank deposit with my iPhone. I still can't figure out how he squeaked by Professor Kingsfield :) If it were up to Obama and his fellow Demo-Socialists, we would have electricity blackouts all over the U.S. (as they currently do in Venezuela under their hero Hugo Chavez). We would not have the internet at all, since it would be deemed too risky to allow "the people" so much freedom. This Obama guy is wrong at so many levels, it staggers the imagination how he was elected in the first place. Are American voters really That Dumb? Have they learned anything at all since November 2008? I sure hope so.

LMajito| 6.17.11 @ 8:57AM

are voters that dumb? of course...how else can these guys (both ends of the pennsylvania avenue) get to be in office and remain there for decades on end?

does any clear level headed person thinks that the last two decades of kennedy, thurmond or byrd in the senate legislation originated from their brains? most likely were the results of lobbyists in conjunction with their staff...

how about ronnie? even before his last term he was already suffering from Alzheimer’s...yet all he had to do was stand up and read the dummy cards...it was nancy running the show with fortune tellers and all...

and at the local level is even worst...in washington state, for example, a city council member gets drunk, decides to go north bound in the south bound interstate lanes, get stopped, fails sobriety tests, curses the cops, threatens their jobs and what do voters do? she gets elected (and re-elected) to the state house...maybe she could do a better job there...but wait a minute a few years later the lady drunk and driving as usual, gets involved in a hit and runs (she's the one doing the running)...but that ended her political career? heck no...gets involved with a lobbyist organization...sues the county...costs the county $1.5 million and then what? you guessed it...she runs for county commissioner and wins...

are most US voters that dumb? big YES and double YESYES...that's why the president says that ATMs take away jobs and his followers not only believe it but repeated as a fact...

like those american tourists that go to dubai and begin kissing on the beach only to find themselves being torture in dubais' jails...

how could you be so dumb to be in the middle east under those tyrants rule and that evil philosophy the call religion and think you can engage in public display of affection between men and women and not be punished...

now arab dudes holding hands, kissing on the cheeks and walking embracing each other is ok...

BackToBasics| 6.19.11 @ 12:42AM

Voters who voted him into office are either willfully blind, politically ignorant or blind, stupid or naive. And, based on the polls, most of them have not learned anything since 2008. In a hypothetical, if Obam won in 2012 and by 2015 the unemployment was 50% and civil strife was widespread, they'd still be blaming the problems on Bush. That's how blind they are to the problems caused by communist-style central control by government and policies and laws that sanction hedonism. This is true even though such laws are just an interim vehicle to get us to a totally central-controlled Communist state.

If the Federal government EVER gets as much control as they want, we need only to look at the Soviet Union and China to see what they will impose. They will treat people as slaves much more than any private companies ever did and they will put an end to 90% of the non-heterosexual lifestyles so coveted by the left today. Most illicit narcotics and drugs will be outlawed too, only alcohol will remain, including much homemade poisonous "brews." In other words, more than a full-circle will be completed and coerced. Everyone, including the left will have to abide by the strict control and political and religious and many other freedoms will be almost non-existent, for women and children and especially for the men. Communists always clamp down harder on the men.

But I still think that many on the left would, now in 2011, say if it was worth it just so they could get rid of "religion" especially the Christian kind. In the future they may come realize, too late, just how much of a mistake they made in so many different ways in the years leading up to this totalitarian state, that is, if they were not killed when it was imposed.

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 6.17.11 @ 6:59AM

Ironically, there is stubborn resistance to "automate" the government.

Robots and machines would likely turn up the Bernie Madoffs early in the process, are not subject to corruption (Except in their programming) and would not be surfing the internet for porn.

They also wouldn't show up at the state Capitol to protest union legislation and wreck the building to the tune of 5 million.

The problem with Obama is that while there may be some wisdom in what he states, he's too profoundly idealistic to separate the good from the bad, trouncing on the good while throwing billions at the bad.

l5j6| 6.17.11 @ 7:31AM

Ah, what wisdom in what he states? The man is "affects" intelligence. It's an act. He went to expensive, private schools his whole like, he's a lawyer, therefore, he knows how to act "smart" by stroking his chin, by speaking slowly and looking "profound".

The British have a word for this - he is a "poser" (or "poseur") in British English.

Stormzeye| 6.17.11 @ 9:40AM

Agree. Except the word "poseur" is French, which is perfect because they virtually invented the concept of an empty suit with their elaborate courts and courtiers.

Sue| 6.20.11 @ 2:30PM

Thank you Stormzeye and l5j6 for giving me the most exact descriptive word for BO that I have seen yet. I have been seeking for about 2 years a perfect description of the man, and you have placed it right in front of me. It is not nearly so uncomplimentary as the other descriptions I have given him during the last 24+ months. Poser, an empty suit; is the best I have heard and hopefully will help me not get so upset and angry when he speaks down to all us ordinary souls.

PolishKnight| 6.20.11 @ 4:26PM

Sue, I don't believe in underestimating my opponents or even disrespecting them. I do so at my peril.

I believe Obama is a very intelligent man. I think most leftists are. That's the problem: They are intelligent people who worship government power and it's not unreasonable to see why. Unlike belief in a traditional God, government power requires little faith to accept. A powerful state can strip any single man of all his wealth and humanity in moments. It is the ultimate power to fear and worship.

They mask this worship behind lofty goals which can be summed up as making the whole world look like Sweden or Amsterdam but in their hearts, they know that the same corrupt forces and human behaviors it takes to achieve their ends will ultimately make those oasis of likeable socialism disintegrate but no matter: They view absolute government power as inevitable and they'd rather get on the boat now than be "left behind."

What's at stake is the world portrayed by Orwell's 1984: Humanity itself is something to be stamped out and replaced with biological units to serve the state elite until even they can be replaced by machines. The state, like an anthill or beehive, is what they envision should remain after humanity itself, even they themselves, are rendered obsolete.

Did you ever see the silly film "The Mummy?" An ancient mummy god is resurrected and his zombie followers follow his will chanting "Imhotep". A guy escapes their wrath by chanting "imhotep" and going along with them. This is the hivemind of humanity. The bigger government gets, the more likely people are to jump on board no matter what's going on.

Western civilization starting with Greece and later in Christian Western Europe came up with the concept of individuality and human dignity. The state was viewed as subservient to human dignity and humanity, not the other way around. But people now are rejecting that notion as they become intoxicated with the allure of being a part of massive, unstoppable government growth. Even if that government were to destroy itself and humanity, that's more exciting to them than being a mere victim of it. In addition, the state and crowd offer them the alluring prospect of believing that the state will be serving them even as facts appear otherwise. 2+2=5. The earth is cooling because of global warming. Smoking is rebellious and cool. Reality is what the hivemind makes of it. It's the ultimate Matrix.

That's what you're up against, Sue. Sorry if it scares you. It sure scares me but I live with it.

btims| 6.17.11 @ 7:29AM

And the MSM (and GOP RINOs) say Palin is dumb? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.........Our "genius" Moooslim Boy in Chief! What a hoot!

Michael Tomlinson| 6.17.11 @ 7:33AM

This is the same moron the Democrats want to give control of the Internet too.

Intelligent Design don't forget in his heart Obama is our version of Hugo Chavez.

The reason 14 million Americans are unemployed and 25 million are underemployed is because of Barack Obama's “shovel ready projects.”

l5j6| 6.17.11 @ 7:33AM

How smart can you be if you believe in statism? Global warming? Windmills? Solar panels? In there's only a few "extremists" who are hi-jacking Islam?

What a joke this idiot is. A year and half until he is broomed out of office.

Nothing but Jimma Carter with a suntan.

roadmaster| 6.17.11 @ 8:13AM

A 6th grader could explain the economy better than this dope!!!

Red Bubba| 6.17.11 @ 8:17AM

Ironic comments coming from the teleprompter in chief.

The Patent Reform Act will help cut the US down to size in terms of innovation, got to get us in step with that hotbed of individual inventors, Europe.
Call your congressman today.

George S| 6.17.11 @ 8:32AM

Somehow Barry doesn't strike me as the type who would wait in line for a teller. That's for us folk, being inconvenienced with long waits and herded through rope mazes to approach a bored clerk during his working hours-- the metaphor of the bureaucratic state. But that machine known as the ATM frees us from that drudgery, enabling us to go to the bank whenever and wherever we want. That's what's got Barry all wee-wee'd up.

RAMIII| 6.17.11 @ 10:47AM

Hilarious Post! Hahahahahaha!

Petronius| 6.17.11 @ 8:59AM

Aaaawwww, the poor know-nothings. They're unemployable in this day and age. It's those damned geeks again, raising the skill levels required of those who used to push paper as clerks. Even though Jobs and Gates wear jackass brown lipstick, it's still their fault the average over the hill voter cannot understand and pilot a computer. Neither can he work for a non-profit and write grant proposals since he loafed in school when basic skills used to be taught. Ignorance was bliss when these devices didn't exist and basic literacy was sufficient to make a living. Now, it's O K. It's Apple and Microsoft's fault. There just aren't enough positions available in the packaging dept.

Stormzeye| 6.17.11 @ 9:50AM

Life was simpler when manufacturing meant slapping chrome bumpers on the front of DeSoto after DeSoto. Now those "great" jobs are gone and we need people to build and repair the robotics that manufacture silicon chips. The "progressives" would rather see millions of enslaved union workers manufacturing wastebaskets for Rubbermaid than enabling entrepreneurs to unlock the secrets of the human genome using American technology.

PolishKnight| 6.17.11 @ 10:07AM

"Computers don't make mistakes. What they do, they do on purpose." -- Dale Gribble, King of the Hill

Guys, there's still plenty of work out there for moderately educated people and in a free market economy, they would pay well. This is why Bill Gates wants the raised H1B's because of "worker shortages" (for him, a worker shortage means having to pay qualified Americans applying for the job a fair market wage.)

Let's look at the housewife analogy again. Despite all the feminist claims that these women did "unpaid" work, they actually got a 1/2 interest (or more) in their husband's income. They got to live in the home they cleaned, raise their own children, and a guaranteed pension when their wageearner knocked off due to overwork. So who was really "unpaid?"

When career women left the home, they still needed those jobs you refer to as drudgery and simplistic and then... found that maid service, daycare, etc. were quite expensive so they did their own "outsourcing." Of course, they looked the other way when their maid said she was going to dump her 4 kids on the public schools, demand taxpayer funded free healthcare, etc. but that's similar to Bill Gates looking the other way at the conditions in the countries he imports labor from or companies dumping PCB's in the drinking water to save a buck but, hey, that's the "free" market right? It's guys like that who gave capitalism a bad name.

BackToBasics| 6.19.11 @ 1:46AM

Agreed. I've also posted about H-1B Visas and overdone legal immigration probably about 5 times. I've aso mentioned how it used to be believed by most everybody, including most on the left, and rightfully so, that the US was so slef-suficient (96% of GDP could be mined or produced here, that we could AFFORD a higher standard of living than the rest of the world.

It's truly amazing and also just total idiocy on the part of so many including many of the elites too to "go-global" at the expense of American prosperity and jobs.

PolishKnight| 6.20.11 @ 11:28AM

Let's put into perspective that if our population had remained at WWII levels (45 million or so), we'd be energy self-sufficient at this time! We'd be a massive food exporter.

However, forces on both the left and right conspired to ruin that. The left needed more voters including welfare recipients and the right needed more workers (because welfare recipients were not motivated to do low wage manual labor.) So they both got their wish: tons of illegals and low wage immigrants.

Another argument in the states and Western Europe for massive immigration is to keep the pension systems afloat but that's self-defeating. Immigrants who pay into the system ultimately take out more just as regular payers into the system. They only inflate the ponzi pyramid!

In addition, the keynsian system has produced more bureaucrats (as pointed out above) in addition to a massive infrastructure to support career women: daycare, fast food, dry cleaning, etc in addition to more workers in education and the divorce courts. The nuclear family didn't produce a lot of jobs because it was very self sufficient. Happy marriages meant fewer divorces and work for divorce courts and social workers. People did their own laundry and cooked their own food. You get the idea.

Ironically, the 1950's was the most progressive era in human history: "Better living through chemistry", nuclear power (remember when they hypothesized we might have flying cars running on nuke cores? :-) Even as the left bashes the era as naive and simple minded, even they long for a time when people were optimistic and forward thinking rather than a pretense of "progressive" which is largely just tearing down society in the hopes that Sweden magically pops up.

Pecos Pete| 6.17.11 @ 9:30AM

Automation will never replace community organizers.

Stan redmond| 6.17.11 @ 9:43AM

There's a reason old Soviet propoganda posters have the paeons following with shovels. And uneducated servant performing mundane back breaking work will have little time to complain and vote statist bastards like Obama in to office when they throw you a bucket of fishheads for your daily rations.

PolishKnight| 6.17.11 @ 9:55AM

As someone who is very familiar with Soviet culture, it's actually just the opposite, Stan: It was the "proles" who were the ones most cynical about socialism both in Soviet culture, and ours. This is why the left has resorted to racial and gender special interest preferences in order to keep their voting numbers up. When they put up posters "We're taking care of the middle class!" it's only because they're trying to retain the few useful idiots they retain in the middle class. The elites of the left are largely cronies in government, academia, and subsidized industry OR fools who are in love with Sweden but have never been there.

RAMIII| 6.17.11 @ 10:52AM

You have summed it up pretty well, including your earlier post!

PolishKnight| 6.17.11 @ 9:51AM

"The washing machine didn't put housewives out of work; -- it enabled them to have careers."

My oh my, there is so much wrong with that statement. Let's start with the obvious: The washing machine and other "labor saving" home devices didn't free up women from housekeeping but also "created" more "jobs" around the home and raised standards. In the old days, for example, you might clean the rugs once a month and sweep. You certainly didn't have wall to wall carpeting. You also didn't have delicate clothing that needed to be washed daily. Certainly, the preponderance of illegals to do housework is not an indication that this work has gone away!

Next, most women had "careers" long before the washing machine. Namely, they were expected to help out around the farm and family business or work outside the home albeit part-time. The concept of a woman staying at home full time and doing nothing else was ironically created by the industrial revolution that raised MEN'S wages sufficiently to afford to support a full time SAH wife. Formerly, it was largely a luxury for the middle and upper classes.

Indeed, much as devolved since then as feminists gripe about the "work/life balance." Welcome to equality! Men have long known that sometimes they couldn't take a day off to be at their daughter's piano recital. Plus, all the "labor saving" devices have to be taken care of: Dry cleaning picked up. Waiting for mechanics to fix the dishwasher. etc.

Plus, next time you're stuck in a traffic jam, consider that women leaving the home meant not only reduced wages due to competition but also stress on the infrastructure to accommodate more full-time workers. The rush hours have nearly twice as many commuters. All the services for "dual income households" have their own workers (especially divorce courts) and therefore infrastructure and energy burdens. It's also why traditional values persist despite the left's very successful efforts to stamp it out in the upper and middle classes: Working class (literally, working class) families are able to get by on a part-time working spouse looking after the home and having more kids than dual income career households which often don't form in the first place. The nuclear traditional family is an economic powerhouse!

But indeed, there is a neat comparison between the feminist movement and technology in general: Sometimes it backfires and does more damage than good. Has the television produced better educated children as promised back in the 1940's when it was first introduced? Does the "smart" phone make people "smarter" or do they waste more of their time on chat? Has feminism produced more assets for society and the family or has it actually harmed the family, and women, more than any so-called liberation and free spending money it promised?

RAMIII| 6.17.11 @ 10:59AM

"The nuclear traditional family is an economic powerhouse!"
PolishKnight; Very well stated, thank you for identifying these distinctions in your post. It reminds me that accurate analysis always revolves around context!
I enjoyed reading your thoughts (actually more than the article).

Appleby| 6.17.11 @ 2:17PM

The "nuclear traditional family" you are talking about started in the late 40s and early 50s in an attempt to force women out of the workplace so the returning soldiers could have the jobs. Before the War(s), everybody worked at home as well as at some sort of manual labour.

You are right that the industrial revolution not only created more jobs, but created more stuff for the working folk to buy-- the elites really hate Wal-Mart et al. because the industrial revolution that spawned them allowed peasants to have stuff that hitherto was reserved for the elites. Its hard to keep the proles seething with anger at TheRich when they realize they're actually pretty well off compared to what their parents and grandparents had and its all thanks to automation.

PolishKnight| 6.17.11 @ 3:07PM

"force women out of the workplace so the returning soldiers could have the jobs"

Indeed, not only were the soldiers returning but the USA was no longer in a war making some of the drastic militaristic aspects of society obsolete. Men could no longer be forced to work at lower wages as military contractors. Also, the factories that had provided free daycare for women workers could no longer count on generous war subsidies to offset the expense.

In other words, the employers really needed little incentive to "force women out." On the contrary, the only way to force women INTO the workplace is via a set of regulations that cost society, and women themselves, greatly. The golden age of equality was during the 80's (the Reagan era) when a significant fraction of professional women were entering the workplace in similar numbers as men but plenty of women remained as housewives. This allowed the women to continue to marry breadwinners while demanding compensation for previous discrimination.

Those days are long gone. Are women overall happier with earning more than their husbands or boyfriends?

PolishKnight| 6.17.11 @ 2:32PM

Thanks RAMIII.

Sometimes, I've gotten into brawls here because I'm willing to flirt with the edge but that's what makes conservatism rather progressive and vice-versa, the left rather stodgy. We're living in a post feminist and even post socialist worldview. The left has largely won. They more or less have the whole world on their side. One of their favorite arguments is: "The whole civilized world (Namely, Western Europe) does things X way which is better than here". I respond "so move there!" and then they start blustering "How dare you tell me love it or leave it?"

So in the Mad Max aftermath of leftism and feminism, we can see with intellectual clarity most conservative values have persisted and make sense. Even as the left has succeeded in trashing 1/2 of families in the USA, the remaining 50% provide a testimony to the sensibility of those values. Even so, it's interesting that most conservatives fail to realize that they've swallowed the leftist cool aid and one of the most glaring examples is feminism.

Consider the author above. He implies that because of the invention of the vacuum cleaner and washing machine, housewives were able to become feminists and hang out with Gloria Allred. How rediculous! Feminism was made possible due to a politically correct alliance that classified well-to-do white women as being equal to racial minorities in addition to a belief, that most in society appear to still buy into, that women can all come and go from the workplace as they please and still marry 1950's breadwinners.

As the Soviet era joke goes: The left has decided to perform social experiments on humans first and then lab rats. Well, the experiments have reached a point where we have actual data to draw conclusions. Kind of like global warming where the global warming advocates are confronted with cooler temperatures. We needn't rely upon a conservative status quo argument. We are often not in the status quo. We can argue more effectively based upon what actually works.

Wayne in Canada| 6.17.11 @ 10:02AM

This is scary. You've got a president who has less than a high school understanding of basic free market economics. Perhaps his next set of regulations should be to prohibit farm machinery. Think of all the quality jobs that will create.

Wayne in Canada| 6.17.11 @ 10:04AM

Barry, this is a joke - don't do it!

JP| 6.17.11 @ 11:09AM

I think this model does have its limits. Computer automation destroyed more Tool and Die jobs than create engineering jobs. The need for skilled toolmakers took a tumble once CNC machines and wire EDMs hit the market place. The same can be said for computer programmers. Twenty years ago Cobol, RPG, and Assembler were king of the compiled languages. By 1996 C, C++, and Visual Basic replaced them; but, by 2005 Java was all the rage. The flood of skilled C and VB programmers was great while it lasted. But by 2007 the demand for thier skills was gone. And now in the age of portable smarphone apps, the demand for Java developers has hit a peak.

None of this I'm saying is necessairly bad. Despite some bureaucrats efforts to the contrary, one cannot control where the technology market is going. One wise sage told me a decade ago that the IT field will belong to project managers and not the "techies". If one wanted to continue in the field he/she should get his PMP or MBA. Wise advice with only one drawback - what if one doesn't wish to manage IT projects?

In the long run, one could ask who has been more important to Apple? Its engineers and innovators, or Steve Jobs?

DaveD| 6.17.11 @ 7:31PM

If you were paying attention to the way things were going you wouldn't be in a pickle about your lost IT job. I did it. I can speak COBOL, RPG, Assembler, C, C++. Visual Basic and JAVA. Why can't you? It's not at all like the march of computer technology was a secret or hidden from view in any way. I remained a techie and was gainfully employed using every one of those computer languages for 35 years - didn't have to become a management puke.

wulfy| 6.17.11 @ 7:37PM

"Computer automation destroyed more Tool and Die jobs than create engineering jobs".

Wrong. Since 1980, computers enabled creation of hundreds of millions of electronic and software engineering jobs, unfortunately, more abroad then domestically, but whose fault is that? Lazy American kids who although they have methematical/spatial aptitude, would rather study "multimedia web design" or "video game design", because it's more fun than slogging through actual hardware/software design.
In 10 years, today's college crackberry kids will be 35 years old and delivering pizzas to $250k -earning software engineers their same age from India and China. Hopefully our work ethic will be returning by then.

I don't care about people who can't get jobs because of outsourcing, because it only shows they can't compete in Obama's overregulated economy, and it will (if Obama doesn't nationaize everything first) force them to step up and learn something valuable.

I don't care about the union punks who will have to take an 80% pay cut and work a hard labor job with no breaks when the recession hits the second dip.

I don't care bout the welfare kids who can't read, except to shoot them when they try and rob me.

There's a reckoning a-comin, and it's lazy stupid Americans who will have to get unlazy and unstupid and quit voting for parasitic idiots like Obama if they are to survive.

PolishKnight| 6.19.11 @ 10:20PM

Er, I hate to break it to the pizza delivering crackberry addict, but those H1B software engineers don't earn $250K. Bill Gates doesn't want those H1B's because those workers are so invaluable. Just the opposite: he wants to pay them a fraction of the wages he would to an American worker while claiming he's trying to help people via his "foundation."

The groups you refer to are paid about $70 to $80K in metro areas such as Seattle or the Bay Area where that's barely covers the rent for a 2 bedroom apartment. That's ok, they crowd in 4 to 8 per unit. A friend unknowingly rented a place after them and got bitten by bed bugs. The bugs didn't even wait until coming out at night to feed, there were apparently thousands of them out in the day and these workers lived that way for a year!

And despite all the claims that they're so hard working, well educated and superior to the local, lazy whites, it turns out that their degrees are often from a 6 month diploma mill that gives them a masters for reading a few Java books. They then call the whites and demand that they teach them everything (it's not uncommon for them to ask what a "pointer" is) and gripe that they're victims of "discrimination." The next time windows7 or whatever latest junk from MS crashes, thank outsourcing!

While java is great for web applications or even corporate batch apps, it's useless for writing fast applications for the desktop.

JimP| 6.17.11 @ 12:18PM

Now see. This is exactly the kind of thing that AOL complained about today. Another conservative/Repub "mercilessly mocking" poor Obama for his ATM gaff. Trolls accuse us of being "narcissists" and having "mental illness" because of such behavior as this and poking fun at Tony 'The #*^%@' Weiner. Of course poor little Barry thinks ATMs are at fault. But for the ATM's there would have been 258,000 more teller jobs than the mere 42K noted. Just nevermind that those 258K jobs would not have coincided with 'W's recession since 2007 even if his ideas WERE accurate. See, when Barry was attending Haaavad he took math from Dr. Jethro Bodine. Barry KNOWS that, "Ought plus ought is ought." etc. So stop mercilessly mocking a 'real man of genius', you crazy, narcissistic conservatives.

PolishKnight| 6.17.11 @ 2:36PM

It's useful to keep in mind that perhaps there the ATM's created their own demands. In the old days, you might go to the bank once a month to withdraw cash precisely because you'd be waiting in line while ATM's encouraged people to make more withdrawals.

In addition, ATM's are just part of the automation conundrum since credit and debit card use has skyrocketed since the 80's. I almost never use cash anymore. If that means that AMEX knows I have a taste for Russian foods, so be it.

JimP| 6.17.11 @ 3:02PM

You didn't really post a serious comment in reply to my obviously sarcastic put down of Obama's understanding of economics? ROTFL

You need to dial back your 'I am the smartest man in the world, who shall enlighten all commenters at TAS with my magnificence and correct all their erroneous ideas' mode.
Dial up your 'normal guy who doesn't have his nose in the air like Obama' mode.

PolishKnight| 6.17.11 @ 3:09PM

I'm a normal guy who thinks you made a great point and was hoping to contribute to it. Sometimes, I don't do a good job.

Sue| 6.20.11 @ 2:51PM

JimP and PolishKnight, I think you both did a great job. I appreciate both the humor and the thoughtfulness you two put into your comments! Thanks to both of you!

Granny Jan| 6.17.11 @ 12:18PM

To carry out the Luddite comparison we need SEIU and Acorn thugs smashing ATM machines. His comments and that would make a pretty funny video.

Bob Grant| 6.17.11 @ 7:56PM

Flash mobs of Acorn and SEIU thugs coming to a town near you. They wont be coming for the ATM's unless to loot the cash.

Personal protection. Learn it. Know it. Live it.

jgo| 6.17.11 @ 2:52PM

The cost of an ATM transaction is about 12 cents (down from about 25-35 cents a decade ago), whereas a human transaction runs about $2... of course, that has little connection with what the banks charge per transaction.

jgo| 6.17.11 @ 3:13PM

"Computer automation destroyed more Tool and Die jobs than create engineering jobs. The need for skilled toolmakers took a tumble once CNC machines and wire EDMs hit the market place."

With CAD/CAM/CAE systems you still need talented, savvy engineers and T&D makers to do the designs, and skilled machinists to do the set-ups properly and re-calibrate the machine tools during the work-day to compensate for wear (especially since some of the best US machine tool firms which were automating some such adjustments with concurrent part verification, and detection of impending tool failure were driven out of the market and those lines of advancement largely abandoned).

I can tell from the rest of your post that you're from the Ill-Begotten Monstrosities (and possibly but not probably Honeybucket), MSFT, "data processing" path rather than the Control Data, Cray (or even DEC or DG or Unithyth), to Sun, SGI, CM, and Mac science and engineering path. We use almost totally different terminology and different programming languages and operating systems.

As it turns out, Jobs has been involved in the engineering design decisions all along, while also building and developing R&D teams. The enthusiastic arguments over design decisions as well as economics are still occasionally reported.

Most MBAs, in terms of adding to knowledge and capabilities, are about as valuable as watching Oprah or American Ninja and drinking heavily for several years.

JP| 6.17.11 @ 4:39PM

"With CAD/CAM/CAE systems you still need talented, savvy engineers and T&D makers to do the designs, and skilled machinists to do the set-ups properly and re-calibrate the machine tools during the work-day to compensate for wear (especially since some of the best US machine tool firms which were automating some such adjustments with concurrent part verification, and detection of impending tool failure were driven out of the market and those lines of advancement largely abandoned)."

Nice talking points -straight out of some trade journal I suppose. You obviously never worked in a job shop or a real production enviroment. Set up men, even good ones rarely make more than $15 an hour. Take a decent high school grad and you can train them to set up presses, laser cutters, or wire EDMS within a year. Not so for a real tool maker or mold maker. Most production enviorments have few skilled workers. Operating and setting up a CNC machine is not a skilled trade. And machinist is another term for machine operator. Niether can know how to build dies or injection molds from scratch. Your ignorance is manifest in your statements.

You seem to be full of the tech jargon, which means you spend way too much time in journals, and the periphery of the tech world. As a matter of fact, I would wager you never worked in either the tool business or the IT world.

DaveD| 6.17.11 @ 7:34PM

"Most MBAs, in terms of adding to knowledge and capabilities, are about as valuable as watching Oprah or American Ninja and drinking heavily for several years."

A M E N !

wulfy| 6.17.11 @ 7:47PM

I've had few talented managers from the biz side, usu. they are trained as engineers if they are good at managing lots of tech activity.

Some MBA's may be good for financial games and contract legalese and minutiae, but there's obviously a glut of them, just like psychologists, vets, and Starbucks stores. All that fat needs to be cut in the Reckoning.

Those people will not be employable for the most part. What will happen will be like 1880's England and France...a vagabond class will emerge...beggars, thieves, and black market peddlers, with martial law in most of the country. If you are a union goof making $40/hr for nothin, you better invest in weapons for when your job disappears and you have to live in your car you cant afford to keep running in a vast and dangerous slum.

Overactive imagination? You hope.

voted against carter| 6.17.11 @ 10:18PM

Just remember,... IT"S AALLLLLLL PPPPAAAARRRRTTTTTT of the PLAN folks!!!

wholesale underwears | 6.18.11 @ 4:19AM

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Frank| 6.18.11 @ 12:22PM

He does not seem to be a quick thinker and when he goes off script he blunders, like with the ATM comment. What about the jobs created for the people who manufacture, install and service ATMs?

Then there are the ATM fees -- maybe not so good for the consumer, but good for the financial institution or credit card issuer.

He probably saw the poor little ATM sitting there minding its own business and figured "here's a chance for me to make a point about job loss, that we (the Dems) can't do much about ... maybe it will give me cover."

Instead, it blew up in his face, at least among the people who are paying attention.

PolishKnight| 6.20.11 @ 9:49AM

I got hit by ATM fees once Frank. It happened when I went to Citibank because it was the only place around and I desperately needed cash to pay for my car mechanic. The ATM didn't warn me that I would pay $2 just to find out how much was in my account and when I got home, I found nearly $10 in fees.

That was the first, and only time, I ever did that. So congrats to them for getting the better of me.

The rest of the time, I withdraw cash from my bank's ATMs religiously. No fees. Minimum balance for most banks free checking is about $500 or so (the equivalent of $0.50 in interest per month) or free with direct deposit. I still use tellers to make deposits and for large cash withdrawals. I also often need them for notary services.

Oldefarte| 6.18.11 @ 2:11PM

El Chosen One is partially correct in that technology does eliminate manual labor oriented jobs, but is mostly incorrect in that same opens up an equal number of technological operations jobs in replacement. The loss of the job of ELEVATOR OPERATOR resulted in an opening of jobs for computerized technitions needed to repair, interpret, analyze etc the new elevator conputerized technology. This situation however has nothing whatsoever to do with the current economic disaster facing this country partially representated by huge unemployment. If Chosen had any educational/professional expertise concerning such matters [which he does not, sadly], he's understand that our economical malise has to do with the government's historical housing welfare dictatorial policies upon banking/finance that has resulted in the housing welfare known as AFFORDABLE HOMES; with this administration's imposing oil drilling moratoriums and drilling permit restrictions upon oil drillers of our offshore energy sources; with their imposing governmental regulatory restrictions upon private industries/Boeing for labor union enhancement purposes; about their using the legal powers of the Justice Dept to sue Arizona over their state's immigration legislation; about their legislatively passing dictatorial banking restrictions that is resulting in a constriction of banking loans being issued; about their historically imposing governmental policies beneficial to labor unions causing excess wage rates paid by private industries and same's exporting of manufacturing jobs oversees in order to same costs and reduce expenses; etc. Chosen does not understand all of this because of his artsy-fartsy lifestyle and extensive liberal arts educational training, and even if he were to understand same, he would not give an excrement [since liberals seek to destroy this capitalistic country any way possible]!!!!!!!!

Frank| 6.18.11 @ 6:08PM

Oldef: The Chosen One's lack of practical experience doesn't matter to him and his supporters. What matters them is that their kind of government means using liberal policy ideas to shape the economy, whatever the consequences. Cash for Clunkers was one minor example. Obamacare, perhaps the most egregious. All the yapping about the "green economy." And Cap and Trade -- for now, that vampire is sleeping in its coffin, but just as soon as the Dem/libs sense the time is right, they are going to open that lid!

BackToBasics| 6.19.11 @ 2:06AM

Wrong on the bank teller stats or not, one would hear a comment about automation replacing bank tellers around the 1981-1983 timeframe. Sure is an old line the speech writer pulled out of the hat, or was it pulled from a long-ago memory perhaps in his college years that has yet to be "updated?" It's scary tto think that a speechwriter could not come up with a better line than this. It's even more scary to think that maybe the speechwriter is even ahead of Obam using this line. But an Obam original or not, it sure is a rusty line AND incorrect thinking as well.

geo11| 6.19.11 @ 11:54PM

Actually Obama is quite right in pointing out the impact of structural change. The West is still transitioning from the Industrial to the technological age. Virtually all industrial age jobs will disappear as the video (link below) shows but no technological age industry sector is emerging that will absorb ALL the displaced workers. The one hope was the service sector but these are lowly paid jobs and you need three of them just to survive.

The developed nations have been able to postpone the impact of technology through borrowing. But this is also now unraveling with devastating results.

But there is an emerging sector and it is in providing free goods and services by externalizing the cost. Think Google, Twitter, Facebook etc externalizing cost through advertising. Ultimately this will lead to a new rebalancing and a new economic model.

http://tinyurl.com/42nfy98

weddingdresses | 6.20.11 @ 2:26AM

James | 6.20.11 @ 9:31AM

What would expect from a leftist, socialistic moron in the first place? This doesn't surprise me at all. Leftist Democrats always try to put the blame on the wrong source everytime anyway!

antfreire| 6.20.11 @ 10:06AM

Obama saounds more like Evo Morales every day.

Gwen Parnell| 6.20.11 @ 10:08AM

You can't cure Stupid and that is what we have in our White House

JMJ| 6.20.11 @ 10:34AM

I have no use for dictator Obama and his remarks are just plain stupid, but so is your article. I use to work in a bank in the early '60s when our city was full of banks and tellers, in the '80s we started to lose our banks and tellers, but our country didn't fall apart as it has since ACORN (which is Obama) started to work behind our backs to destroy us. As for automation, yes it is ruining the country; any time that you use a "self" check-out, you are giving money to the store and taking away a job that someone needs. In other words, someone is not working which means that they don't pay taxes (including S.S.) and they can't spend money to buy things which puts other people out of work, which means less income for taxes (S.S) and less money into circulation which again means less jobs. Get the picture? DON'T USE MACHINES WHEN POSSIBLE, BUT GO TO REAL PEOPLE AND LET THE STORE OWNERS AND BANKS KNOW THAT THEY ARE DESTROYING THIS COUNTRY!! +JMJ+

PolishKnight| 6.20.11 @ 10:57AM

JMJ, funny story: In Poland 10 years ago, and Ukraine today, things largely work like the 1950's: If you wanted to pay your electricity or phone bill, you had to go to a bank teller or office and pay it, in cash, by hand. In South America, many people still do it that way and they carry this tradition on when they enter the USA.

They were shocked, and envious, when I explained that in the states even in the 70's, people here mailed in bank checks via the mail. It was still a chore (a good 2 hours or so each month) to fill out checks by hand, fill out forms, stuff the envelopes and mail them, and then hope and pray the checks got to the office on time so you didn't incur a late fee.

Is it really so bad that we've progressed past that point and can pay all of our bills online or via direct deposit? The ONLY check I make out is my rent check and I'm looking to automate that too. About 70% of people e-filed their taxes last year!

Indeed, efiling and online bill paying and ATM's have hurt the tellers in banks and offices in addition to the post office. Their loads are a lot lighter. I check my PO box and find very little in it nowadays thanks to online and email bills. I'm thinking of cancelling it.

sally Fama| 6.20.11 @ 10:49AM

ATMs and Airport kiosks?? Dum-de-dumb Dumb!

SmithWinston6478| 6.20.11 @ 11:32AM

The people who made covered wagons have been unemployed for 130 years! We should do away with cars.
We have a Trojan Horse in the Whitehouse. To call him a traitor is to insinuate he was once on our side. Who in their right mind could think the narcissistic adolescent is smart? Hitler was also a smooth talker who promised hopenchange. Liberalism is a mental disorder.

Silence is complicity. Find someone who is open to the truth; we need enlightened voters.

“Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.” – John F. Kennedy
“A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.” – George Bernard Shaw
“The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” – Patrick Henry
“The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” – Thomas Jefferson
“During times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” – George Orwell ’1984′

Rick| 6.20.11 @ 12:03PM

Your a rasist!

Jon| 6.20.11 @ 12:06PM

And you are either grossly misinformed or exceedingly naive and gullible.

SmithWinston6478| 6.20.11 @ 1:22PM

Ricky, you might want to spell-check that.
The Trojan Horse and his racist-lackey Holder have put race-relations back 60 years, and it has NOTHING to do with their appearance.

Jon| 6.20.11 @ 12:04PM

Am I the only person that is embarrassed to admit he is the President of the United States? His incompetence is exceeded only by the ignorance of his arrogance. Or is he truly the socialist pent upon destroying America that I believe him to be?

SmithWinston6478| 6.20.11 @ 1:28PM

Jon, No. Correct. Yes.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

Jon| 6.20.11 @ 12:27PM

The electronics industry, ceded to Japan and Asia in the sixties. The textile and steel industries, ceded to Japan and Asia. The auto industry ceded to Mexico, Japan, Canada. The ship building industry, ceded to Asia. Every manufacturing job in America has been under attack from the WTO, U.N. and, NAFTA treaties for decades. We cannot compete with foreign slave labor rates, import taxation in foreign lands that render our products uncompetitive. Our government has created the exodus of U.S. jobs through mandates and over regulation and taxes that are oppressive. Look no further than the career liberal politicians for our loss of jobs. The nation that gained its might from creativity and manufacturing prowess has been sold out by our federal government. Period! We now have 22 million federal employees who produce nothing! And 11 million manufacturing employees! In the 1970's we had 8.5 million federal employees and 22.5 million manufacturing employees. We can no longer produce all of our own food requirements! We can no longer produce our own clothing! We can no longer produce our own electronics! We have gone from being an independent nation of wealth to a dependent nation through the corruption and ineptitude of our politicians. We must replace all of them with those who will represent their constituents and uphold the Constitution. Vote the career politicos out of office at every election.

J.| 6.21.11 @ 8:10AM

Is barry soetoro that ignorant or is this an act? Evidently he does not live on planetEarth maybe he just arrived!
At any rate, he needs to accept responsibility for his role in this disaster!

Capital intensive insensitive| 6.21.11 @ 5:47PM

In your efforts to ridicule the President at all costs, the rightwingers miss the truth in his arguments. Automation technology is likely to continue advancing relentlessly and result in significant and continuously increasing structural unemployment within the next 10 to 20 years.

Most economists are likely to dismiss this prediction. Many will suggest that new technology will result in the creation of new industries and new employment sectors. The problem with that assumption is that the new industries created tend to nearly always be very capital-intensive and employ relatively few workers—while at the same time making available technologies that are highly disruptive to more traditional labor intensive sectors that employ millions of people.

What will happen when Wal-Mart begins to employ significant automation? Is that really unthinkable? In fact, Wal-mart management was already starting to think about it back in 2005.

To see the difference in employment between a traditional industry and a new technology industry, compare Wal-Mart (over 2 million employees and revenue of about $180,000 per worker) with Google (20 thousand employees and over a million dollars per worker). In time, Wal-Mart will begin to look more like Google and new industries that spring up will employ fewer and fewer workers.

A similar story can be seen by in the DVD rental industry. How many workers are (or have been) employed by Blockbuster in its thousands of retail locations, as compared with Netflix in a few highly automated distribution centers? The inevitable migration from delivering DVDs though the mail toward to instantly available streaming video can only accelerate that trend.

The fact is that structural unemployment is here to stay. It will very likely get worse, and it will increasingly impact workers with college educations and high skill levels. Those with few skills and little education have been the first to feel the brunt, but machines are getting better and smarter. The rest of us are next.

The President is right, rightists here are blinded by arrogance.

Christian Louboutin | 6.23.11 @ 5:58AM

For a start, President Obama is wrong as a matter of fact. From 1985 to 2002, U.S. banks added some 300,000 ATMs around the country, but also added 42,000 bank teller jobs.

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