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The Nation's Pulse

Ghetto Love

By on 6.17.11 @ 6:08AM

Not everyone wants to join the middle class.

Social scientists for decades have sought to explain the dogged persistence of poverty. The received wisdom is the poor are passive victims who would like nothing better than to exchange their hoodies and droopy drawers for the Polos and plaid slacks of the middle-class. To illustrate this, sociologists have concocted numberless arcane and byzantine theories.

One such theory is called “depletable self-control.” Humans, you see, have only so much self-discipline, and then all hell breaks loose. Because everything is harder for poor people, they use up their allotment sooner. By 9 or 10 in the morning, depending on what time they crawl out of bed, the poor have gone through their entire reservoir. The same goes for their decision-making skills. The poor can make a few good decisions at breakfast, but by lunch all bets are off.

In contrast, the ancient’s view was that the poor are impoverished precisely because they have less self-discipline and tend to make bad decisions. Today this is considered blaming the victim; since the 1960s this has been a major no-no.

More and more I am becoming convinced that the reason many poor do not escape poverty is simply because they do not want to.

No one is arguing the poor do not face substantial barriers to escaping poverty. However, the idea of depletable self-control is an insult to the hard working poor who get up every morning, get their kids off to school, take the bus to some dead-end job, and return home in the evening to prepare dinner before spending a relaxing hour at the Laundromat. These folks simply do not have time to be depleted of their reservoir of self-control. They have responsibilities to attend to. But, ultimately, it is worth it. It is their children who may someday escape the cycle of poverty.

FOR SOME TIME NOW I have lived in the ghetto. For me, every day is a rich learning experience. Mostly what I am learning is that the ‘hood is not a place all people wish to escape from. Most middle class folks are unable to comprehend this. They think, “If I were them (the poor), I’d want to get the hell out of there.” But that’s not the mindset of many urban dwellers.

The ghetto is home; it’s where one’s friends and family live. For some the ghetto exudes an aura of romance. It is celebrated in film and song. Moving to the suburbs would be seen as selling out. Besides, people are too uptight in the suburbs. They wouldn’t let you play your loud music all night long.

And it’s easier to get by in the city. You can get away with a lot more. Drugs are plentiful. You don’t necessarily need a car. You can find cheap housing. There are free medical clinics. Hell, my neighbors’ kids are driven to school in a taxi — on the taxpayer’s dime. You don’t necessarily even need a job in the city. Most of my male neighbors never seem to work. (This includes the artists and hipsters in our neighborhood.) And no one judges you if you don’t, because there is a good chance they don’t work either.

Sure, city-living has its share of problems. Murder, crime, constant gunfire. But you’d be surprised how quickly you adapt. I was. At first I was a little jumpy when a round of semiautomatic gunfire exploded down the street. But after six months you get used to it.

Obviously, the middle class is beyond the reach of some of my neighbors. But for those who dropped out of high school, have no marketable skills and are functionally illiterate, they could at least decide their children are going to get out of the ghetto. Some do decide this, but many don’t.

It’s not like they don’t know how to escape the cycle of poverty. Four simple rules: 1. Don’t have babies in your teens. 2. Finish high school. 3. Learn a marketable skill. 4. Keep out of prison. It’s not rocket science.

As I write, I am staring out my second-floor window overlooking my neighbor’s yard. It is Friday morning and there are four young men in their twenties, shirtless, covered in tattoos, hanging out in a grassless backyard, smoking and drinking beer and listening to loud, thumping, misogynistic music.

Evidently their allotment of self-control has been depleted for the day (though I’m not sure how, since all they’ve done is light cigarettes and open beers). Because of this they are obviously too worn out to look for a job.

I would pity them, but there’s no time. I have to go to work.

About the Author

Christopher Orlet writes from St. Louis.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (140) |

Rick V.| 6.17.11 @ 6:31AM

And yet, those of us who are employed and tax-payers (pardon the redundancy) are supporting these "communities." We can't all live there, most of us don't want to, but it's where we are all headed thanks to the magic of wealth redistribution.

Andrew B| 6.17.11 @ 7:00AM

I didn't grow up in anything resembling a ghetto, but the same mentality could be found in my mixed race, mixed class suburb. I learned that in junior high school, when one of the local hoodlums decided that it would be amusing to stab me with the point of a compass stolen from geometry class.

I jumped back, yelling and clutching my side as "Junior" stood giggling. A teacher rushed over, shaking her finger at me and shouting "Don't you yell at him! He comes from a home with no mother!"

This was technically true. I knew his parents, and they had separated because of some trouble with unpaid loans to the local mafiosi. His parents lived two doors apart, and Junior could visit Mom any time he wanted.

What my teacher did not know--or did not care to know--is that my mother had been killed when I was eight.

"So do I", I said to her.

She looked at me blankly for an instant, fluttered her hands at me and walked away.

"That's different", was all she said.

Junior was not expected to have any self-restraint, and it was terribly unfair of me to expect it of him. I, on the other hand, was to meekly accept whatever he did because he was a designated victim.

That was the day I became a conservative. Somehow, I have to guess that Junior derived a different lesson from our interaction.

PJ| 6.17.11 @ 8:27AM

I hope you beat the crap out of Junior in a dark alley, after you recovered! That would be a lesson the bully would never forget & actually may civilize him.

astorian| 6.17.11 @ 11:19AM

In one of his best comedy monologues, Bill Cosby recalled being yelled at by his mother whenever he tried to tattle on a sibling’s bad behavior. From this, young Bill Cosby learned an important lesson: Adults don’t care about justice- they care about QUIET!

Your teacher was much the same. To her way of thinking, Junior was an ideal student because HE wasn’t making any demands of her. YOU, on the other hand, by seeking protection from a thug, were requiring her to DO something, when she just wanted to be left alone.

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 6.17.11 @ 7:12AM

The government has become a mutant factory.

The implications of that are fascinating but also revolting.

Empty lives who unknowingly worship at the altar of Big Government who must be considered the Devil.

Their dignity is gone but it is supplanted by other artificial props including drugs or social programs which make them feel part of the community, thanks to community organizers.

Timothy L. Pennell| 6.17.11 @ 7:20AM

I would like to put forth the theory, that, there may be a GENETIC Trait.
How long were Black kept as Slaves. 100 Years? 150? I propose that their prolonged state of being held captive, and being DEPENDENT on the White Massa, for EVERYTHING, has created a new form of DNA. One with a DEPENDENCY Gene.
How else do you explain, 4th and 5th Generation WELFARE? How else do you explain 60 YEARS, of giving their Votes to ONE Political Party? Not the one who tells them that "You can do it on your own. Stop having Children out of Wedlock. Stay in School, get a good Education, and make something BETTER, for yourselves".
No. They vote for the Party who says "You can't do it". "You're not GOOD enough." "Having 85% of your Children born to single Mothers, is NOBODY'S BUSINESS. It's a CULTURAL thing." "Doing good in School is ACTING WHITE."
They live in the Ghetto. They are surrounded by Gangs, and Drugs, and Prostitution. Dangerous, failing Schools. Empty Store Fronts, No Jobs, No Hope, and no Change.
But they DO get a Check.
And, so they Vote.
They have been CONDITIONED to Perform (Vote) for a Treat (Check). That is the only explanation.
Unless, they're really just STUPID and LAZY.
Or BOTH.

Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 6.17.11 @ 8:04AM

Timothy: Slavery caused their DNA to change to a dependency state? Jeez Louise!! That's a little bit over the top now don't you think? If it was a "Black Gene", than all Blacks would have this mutation then, right? Then all Blacks would be "stupid and lazy" as you imply? I take offense at your theory here, because some of the best Soldiers I've ever met in the Army, some of the ones that I look up to the most are Black, and the last way I'd describe them to anybody would be as "stupid and lazy". They're not, they're hardworking, smart and Patriotic!! Blanket descriptions never work out well, and crazy DNA theories come across as the infamous "R" word that I personally don't like to throw around, because it's overused these days, but in this case I will, and that would be retarded. Your DNA theory is retarded Timothy!! Sorry, but it is!! You might want to tone it down a bit on that theory of yours, it undermines your entire premise, which has some valid points that there is a serious problem in the Black community, but you don't have to find everyone guilty to make your point, and make yourself sound retarded.

Timothy L. Pennell| 6.17.11 @ 8:45AM

I never said that EVERY BLACK had the Gene. There are people who are susceptible to CANCER. Their whole Family is at risk. Why? Because of their Genetic Makeup.
It's called: Heredity. That's why the DOCTOR asks you if there are any instances, IN YOUR FAMILY, of whatever it is you're there to see him for.
I served in the Military as well. Don't preach to me about Good, upstanding Blacks. I know all about it.
And, why should I "tone it down"? Because it might hurt their feelings? Or, is it that, we can't be so hard on them, because they're ONLY Blacks, and they don't know any better?
It's time to TELL THE TRUTH! Not, continue with the EXCUSES.
Why don't YOU tell the Class, why BLACKS are still at the BOTTOM of the ladder? How is it that, everybody else has passed them bye?
Is it because of Whitey? Is it the JEWS? Are they STUPID and LAZY? Have they been CONDITIONED, for the use by ONE POLITICAL PARTY, as a Repository of VOTES, every election Cycle. Only Blacks vote so one sided. Barack Hussein Obama RIPS the School Vouchers out of the hands of Poor Black Children, in D.C.
WHY?
Is it still ILLEGAL to teach a SLAVE how to Read and Write? The NAACP is joining the Teachers Unions in New York, in a Lawsuit to STOP the creation of BETTER SCHOOLS for these Poor Black Kids.
WHY?
And I find it, quite revealing, that you have so much Empathy for a Group, in our Society, that seems UNWILLING to contribute to this Nation, and so LITTLE for the People who, through no fault of their own, are born with a Mental Deficiency. How very Noble of you.
Typical Liberal D*MB*SS.

Lewis| 11.29.11 @ 5:04PM

Always is the white man so reflective upon the plight of the black community. So much so in fact that he neglects the ills of his own--kidnapping/molestation/prescription drug abuse/such a heavy importance placed upon superficial things like how you look that your daughters are dying starving themselves thin/
your bullied sons are committing suicide or shooting up schools/half your kids are medicated/your wives struggle with infertility/and as of late, white teen pregnancy has become the new trend. So if indeed it is true that you all can escape our "violence, laziness, dependency, depravity", then please excuse yourself from our mess...and please concern yourselves w/your own. We will never want to be like you-especially our men. Get over us.

mmercier| 6.18.11 @ 7:24AM

Political control mechanisms are not race based, rther intellectually based.

Divide, and then control the remainder.

These unfortunates are the remainder of a quite evil equation .

The klan of the 20's never dreamed such a control mechanism possible.

No one cares, till they get stabbed.

Dr. X| 6.18.11 @ 10:47PM

Of COURSE there's a genetic factor. By resorting to ad hominem arguments (calling others retarded) and anecdotal evidence (your black friends in the military) you reveal your own ignorance of genetics and of science.

One thing that had not been mentioned here is that environment and culture in humans affects genetic transmission. How many Jewish neurosurgeons from Harvard with an IQ of 130 do you see marrying and breeding with black crack whores with an IQ of 79? NONE. The crack whores breed with drunken welfare and unemployment recipients with similarly low IQs. What kind of ENVIRONMENT do those kids then have??? Who do the kids marry and breed with?

Multiply that pattern of genetic transmission by millions over many generations and you should not be surprised at what you get.

Also I might add that anyone who wants to blame the white man and the vestiges of slavery ought to got to Africa, where drawling Southern rednecks never forced slaves to pick cotton, and see how "advanced" the blacks are there.

If you think genetics is NOT a factor, YOU'RE the one who is crazy.

Dr. X| 6.18.11 @ 10:47PM

Of COURSE there's a genetic factor. By resorting to ad hominem arguments (calling others retarded) and anecdotal evidence (your black friends in the military) you reveal your own ignorance of genetics and of science.

One thing that had not been mentioned here is that environment and culture in humans affects genetic transmission. How many Jewish neurosurgeons from Harvard with an IQ of 130 do you see marrying and breeding with black crack whores with an IQ of 79? NONE. The crack whores breed with drunken welfare and unemployment recipients with similarly low IQs. What kind of ENVIRONMENT do those kids then have??? Who do the kids marry and breed with?

Multiply that pattern of genetic transmission by millions over many generations and you should not be surprised at what you get.

Also I might add that anyone who wants to blame the white man and the vestiges of slavery ought to got to Africa, where drawling Southern rednecks never forced slaves to pick cotton, and see how "advanced" the blacks are there.

If you think genetics is NOT a factor, YOU'RE the one who is crazy.

All American American| 6.17.11 @ 8:10AM

I kinda agree, after spending some time in Africa when I was on active duty. However, its not a "dependency" gene I feel they have; its a "lazy" gene. Spending some time there was certainly an eye-opening experience.

Old Soldier| 6.17.11 @ 12:06PM

You will find the same tendancy to idleness in any third world country.

I remember telling a (hard-working) friend in Sri Lanka that baseball was the American pastime. He said that loafing was theirs.

All American American| 6.17.11 @ 3:20PM

The only time they seemed to move with any urgency was when they heard the Kaht plane making its descent into the airport.

Now that you mention it I did see the same kind of laziness, although not on as grand a scale, when I was in Turkey. It was laziness with a sense that they were owed something. Didn't really see that when I was in Europe or South Korea tho.

chemman| 6.17.11 @ 6:57PM

As a teacher I would tell my students I had the means to heal them of their number one ailment. They would tell me they weren't ill and I would say yes you are you have L.A.V. Then I'd get asked what L.A.V was and I'd answer Lazy A.. Virus and that I was going to cure them of it. Students who never had a work ethic coming into my class left with a work ethic. I required every assignment to be completed, graded, errors correct and turned in. I required every quiz to be passed (100% for theory, 80% for math based). I required every test to be passed (minimum 70%). Each class had a posted chart that the students could check where they were. Every box was checked for every student by the end of each quarter. They learned quickly at first the first progress report that I meant what I said. If any thing was missing they would fail.

Pelligrino| 6.18.11 @ 2:59PM

Chemman, I hope you kept a teacher's diary. Ditto for lesson plans, reading lists, texts used, grading scales.

More importantly a compilation of your methods applied and lessons learned (to include your interactions with both supporting and antagonistic parents).

If you still have these resources, is any of it online and accessible? If so, please post the link here. We need to buttress today's classroom teachers with real life stories of how the hard work ethic must be rigidly enacted and enforced in education.

L.A.V. predominates too many places.

Thank you.

PJ| 6.17.11 @ 8:38AM

Are you guys on drugs or what? There are plenty of Herman Cains, Tyler Perrys, Wayan Brothers, Julius Ervings, Neil deGrasse Tysons, & Thomas Sowells in this country. We don't hear much about them because they are an antithesis of what the stereotype Black is supposed to be.

Timothy L. Pennell| 6.17.11 @ 8:53AM

I promise you, that if you were to do a little RESEARCH, you would find that THOMAS SOWELL, agrees with ME.
There are plenty of Herman Cains and this guy and that guy.
Really? HOW MANY?
And, what is the RATIO between THEM, and the ones who are RAMPAGING through the streets of Chicago and Baltimore, and Charleston, and Atlanta and Miami? The ones that are TERRORIZING people at Fast Food Restaurants, and Shopping Malls. The ones that fill up our PRISONS. 15% of the population commits 56% of all the VIOLENT CRIME.
No more apologies!

dadfly| 6.18.11 @ 6:35PM

having read dr. sowell, extensively on townhall, in the past few years, i find no support whatsoever for your claim that he would support your ideas. but i don't speak for him.

i can only deconstruct your "argument" on logical and factual/scientific bases. i do this because it is this kind of thinking that tars all conservatives/tea partiers with the racist label. in fact, it's a good probabilty that you are a troll based on what you are saying but i'll proceed as if you were sincere.

1. you make a collective argument about "blacks" and then you claim that you "never said all blacks have the [lazy] gene." if all blacks don't have the lazy gene then since you are clearly *not* making an argument about all of humanity having the lazy gene, then you are saying certain blacks have the lazy gene. your argument is incoherent (impossible according to history and genetic theory. i.e., people with the "lazy" gene would have to exclusively procreate for generations in an isolated pool, even granted the existence of this so called "gene.").

2. but lets for the sake of argument address the possible existence of your "gene." your use of a complex "trait" which you catagorize as being "lazy" in the same breath as say skin color (which is complex enough), is something no one in genetic science claims to understand.

if you follow dr. sowell then you know he has done research into IQ and race. If you accept that IQ and IQ-like tests (SAT, CAT, etc.) are correlated with academic performance in public schools (i do, of course, because IQ and public education were historically made for each other), then dr. sowell points you to the Flynn effect: that IQ has inflated 20 points across humanity (where tested) *in* the last generation. if you understand genetics, this falsifies the claim that IQ tests *genetic* differences between races or even genetics at all. it also means that the 15 point difference between blacks and whites is *less* then the culturally caused IQ inflation achieved by all humanity including blacks. No difference. if you can reason, then you realize that the Flynn effect argues that blacks have performed as well as anyone in the last generation, and that IQ is not even really correlated with "intelligence" because you can define intelligence in many ways.

well, i could go on but this is already over long for a comment...

since dr. sowell argues this way about IQ and race, i doubt he would sanguinely agree with your argument here. it maybe true that he grants that these "tests" measure a real academic disadvantage for blacks, he makes sure in the next breath that he believes that it has nothing to do with genetics. dr. sowell couches his arguments in human nature, not race in my experience. government policy as an explanation is the case he makes and continues to make in my reading of dr. sowell, long may he write!

John Navratil| 6.17.11 @ 8:47AM

Ever seen those on the Dole in England?

Timothy L. Pennell| 6.17.11 @ 8:54AM

Yeah. They're called MUSLIMS.

Petronius| 6.17.11 @ 9:15AM

And the natives are called YOBS! Their chief occupation is destroying anything they don't possess outright. We can't even hike the Wiltshire or Berkshire countryside on the Ridgeway anymore without getting accosted by gangs of lowlifes.

Todd Powers| 6.19.11 @ 10:13AM

What about Eastern Kentucky? My home area is populated with WASPs and this applies to them as well. A group of young WHITE men standing around getting stoned in the middle of a weekday? Happens countless times everyday.

rendite| 6.20.11 @ 2:06AM

Mr. Powers, do the E. Kentucky young white men gettting stoned (no, never a wise idea), do they get violent? Do they get out of hand? Please be specific. Do they threaten others? Does it appear that they might have weapons that they might use? Age range also please (generally speaking). And is this grouping occuring at the local gas station or a roadside diner/bar?

Please, I am not at all challenging what you write. I am interested to read what you have observed and experienced.

Last: Is your belief/take that these young men are on the dole? i.e. that they are serial welfare abusers? Thank you.

Southern_Comment| 6.17.11 @ 9:15AM

Actually, that is not a theory. It is a hypothesis and a silly one at that, no offense. It has nothing to do with genetic and everything to do with learned behavior.
Also, by blaming some 'gene', you are giving them an excuse, making them a victim.

Developing genes to adapt is a common misconception of the Survival of the Fittest concept. It's not that beings develop genes to adapt, it's that certain genes already possessed by the being were better suited for their environment, while others were not. The result is that the genes that were better suited to adapt continued through offspring, while the genes that were not suitable for adaptation to one's environment died out and were not reproduced.

irish19| 6.17.11 @ 11:59AM

This is all the old heredity vs. environment discussion. For myself, I think environment is more important in this case. However, I understand that many African societies are largely (not all) matriarchies. This would be the heredity portion, and might serve to partially explain the female-headed households.
I do think, however, that in this case, the effects of the Great Society are mostly to blame.

Occam's Tool| 6.17.11 @ 1:29PM

Guys, read Life at the Bottom by Ted Dalrymple. Explains it all beautifully, written by a Conservative Jewish British Former Prison Psychiatrist with no psychobabble.

Drunken Sailor| 6.17.11 @ 12:22PM

Actually it is more likely a conditioning thing versus a heriditary thing. There are plenty of white's and hispanics that do the same thing. My sister was dating a guy that she said had a job when I knew he was a lazy bum. I explaine to her that digging ginseng, sassaffras roots and gathering aluminum is not a job, it is for beer/pot money on top of his goverment check. A job is something that gets you off the goverment tit.

Douglas Fletcher | 6.17.11 @ 4:18PM

A link here that might interest you, Thomas, regarding your use of uppercase in your comment.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/t.....-internet/

Alej| 6.18.11 @ 10:21AM

there apparently IS a genetic trait, but it derives from 50,000 years, not 150. Read The Bell Curve.

Ken (Old Texican)| 6.17.11 @ 7:21AM

Christopher,
Sometimes I think you are a little crazy.
How much do you spend on roach poison each month?
How about mouse-traps?
How about ear-plugs?
Yes, a dog will return to its vomit.

D. Singh| 6.17.11 @ 7:49AM

Sir

Mr Orlet cites the ancient view of the poor as:

‘… the poor are impoverished precisely because they have less self-discipline and tend to make bad decisions.’

I do concur with the view of the wise ancients. It is still applicable today. And what is more it is being preached in some ghettoes. The answers and the strength the poor are looking for are here, for example:

‘Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise.’

Proverbs 6:6

The British communist historian, E.P. Thompson criticised the evangelical revivals in 18th century England because they prevented a French style revolution.

Nevertheless, those revivals changed sections of the English working-class into hard working and thrifty families – who within a generation had escaped grinding poverty.

I wonder where today are the great American evangelists who are willing to preach on the corners of ghettoes?

For surely their reward shall be great.

David W| 6.17.11 @ 10:44AM

Don't the ghettos have Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and others to look up to and to give them the incentive to improve their lives???

Drunken Sailor| 6.17.11 @ 12:25PM

I think he meant real "Men of the cloth", not religous con-artist. Or as my papa used to say, "just because they go to church, that doesn't make them good christians".

Denver Todd| 6.17.11 @ 7:57AM

I am pretty sure that these people in the ghetto are the voiceless that Anthony Weiner so wanted to represent. I think that if they had a voice, they wouldn't play their music so loud.

Melvin| 6.17.11 @ 8:17AM

It's all about, "Shame." I daresay most if not all pop culture urban dwellers have not the foggiest idea, of the meaning of the word.
Come to think of it, they probably couldn't even look up the meaning because they don't know how to read.
I have noted many times in earlier posts that I live in Jacksonville North Carolina. Due to it's large population of young people, of whom a large percentage is made up of United States Marines, it is a large attractant to pop culture female urban dwellers and their posses.
These pop culture female urban dwellers make it no secret that they are seeking additional hosts to support their pop culture urban lifestyle.
Unfortunately these female urban predators, prey on the young Marines and their naiveté, and the older Marines lonesomeness.
It is entirely not uncommon for these female predators in all their glorious war paint, and spaghetti tops that are three sizes too small to have three or more hosts providing their much desired sugar.
The Marine Corps and the local townsfolk try their duly best to stem the tied of these predators but as long as their is a bus station, and and old broken down car that only has to make it to Jacksonville, with New York or New Jersey license plates, to bring these girls to their nirvana.
It is not just the females that are they pop culture urban predators, but the male entourage they bring with them.
Just a Christopher noted, I see this driving home from work and the swimming pool ever day during the week.
These male pop culture urban predators come down to Jacksonville with their skills that they honed in the urban hives up North. Mostly selling drugs, petty crimes, home invasions, and rolling Marines out in town on liberty.
Now being a local myself I can spot them like an eagle spots vermin scurrying on the ground. Large 250 plus pound behemoths waddling down the side of the road with a white muscle shirt, trouser sagging down to the bottom of their crotches, and during the Summer, having the customary white towel either hanging around their necks or left back trouser pocket. These men about town further finish off their menacing look by having their hair braided, upper torso cocked to one side, and grasping their crotches As they trundle down the road to the nearest middle eastern owned and operated convenience store that used to sell the hallucinogen Spice.
On occasion we have Marines who forget that they are not in the hood anymore and continue to ply their gangsta ways, and end up in stabbings or shootouts with these urban transplants.
We just had two former residents of Detroit that were sent down her by their families to get away from the violence, as the family says, but through all the urban wailings, "But they were good boys." Good boys from Detroit down here in Jacksonville at 3:00 in the morning armed, and behind a bar. Ahhh, more victimization I suppose. Hmm maybe the families of these good boys who are being returned to Detroit in pine board boxes can put an increase request to Social Security for added mental anguish.
Every work day I see this cycle being replicated by observing strollers parked in neat rows like the parking lot of the Social Services offices with their adolescent mothers in two sizes too small Daisey dukes, yakking away on their state provided cell phones, which by the way is only supposed to be used in an emergency.
Sometimes as I wait at the Light next to Sandy Run Apartments, as my serenity is broken by a Nissan, with automotive accouterments to make it look like a urban Mercedes, blasting some thumpty, thump, thump beat, as the driver who is leaning into the passenger side of his vehicle gives me his most menacing pop culture urban warrior look. I wonder to myself where is the equality in all this?

Nancy in NC| 6.17.11 @ 9:06AM

I live just outside Cherry Point in Havelock. Wonder why that culture has not invaded Havelock like it has here?

Melvin| 6.17.11 @ 9:13AM

Education has a large part to do with it I surmise. Allot more Officers, better law enforcement techniques to clip the weed before it has a chance to grow and proliferate.
Down here in Jacksonville, during my professional and non professional interaction with these urban princesses is that, 98% of them quit school at an early age.

Drunken Sailor| 6.17.11 @ 12:28PM

Nancy, Spent 4 years there. Glad to hear it hasn't changed.

Old Soldier| 6.17.11 @ 12:10PM

Yeah - I hated Jacksonville. I'll take Twentnine Palms or Pendelton any day.

But anyone who served also knows lots of young men who came from the Ghetto and left it behind. Hos NCO's managed to wake him up and instill some discipline. Whether they make the military a career or not, they never go back to the Ghetto.

Pelligrino| 6.18.11 @ 3:20PM

Melvin, I appreciate your descriptions. Life experiences have shown me the very sad, ugly same.

I laughed at your "these men about town" line. That phrase used to have a better connotation.

This is overall a national embarrassment. All of us know: Don't dare get off the interstate at the wrong exit. Don't break down in your car. ALWAYS have your cell phone with you and charged up. Doors locked. Windows up -- even if it is 90 degrees outside. You tell the women in the family, don't dare budge from where you've stopped until competent help is on the scene.

What kind of upstanding society is this?

Melvin, you might still be able to handle it now. But how much will you be out and about in and around Jacksonville once you are 69 years old?

I believe that the hoodlums on our streets (everywhere) also force our seniors to be much more shut-in than they would prefer. AND THAT IS CRIMINAL. And disgusting.

gearjammer| 6.17.11 @ 8:22AM

If only we had outlawed abortion-we'd have 30 million more of these vermin. Oh, I forgot, you'd adopt them.

Louis Jenkins| 6.17.11 @ 8:25AM

Orlet's article speaks volumes. Why are you living in the Ghetto Mr. Orlet? Perhaps it is genetic, perhaps they really don't care and are satisfied with their mundane day to day existence, or perhaps it is exciting with the gunfire and someone getting bumped off. Regardless, it is a problem that they and the government will work out at our expense. A 60+ year old segment of our society that will be with us always. Kind of scary isn't it?

JP| 6.17.11 @ 8:31AM

The late Saul Bellow wrote about his late teen years circa 1932-1935. His mother died when he was 15; his father ran some low rent business in the Jewish area of the Near Westside of Chicago. Saul pretty much was on his own since he was 15.

For $1 a week he rented some bed bug infested room outside the Loop. He would usher at the Palmer Club when he could. Saul ate one meal a day - the 35 cent Special at Woolworth's diner (Liver and Onions, mashed potatos, and coffee). Saul's main concern in those days were books. When he wasn't at the Palmer House, he spent his days at the Public Library. He could buy a stack of paperbacks for less than a dollar.

He would sleep in late when he could. The other men in the nieghborhood had families. And they gladly took up WPA jobs laying down paving bricks, building viaducts, and parks. Saul had no such responsibilities. He remarked late in life that the Great Depression was the last time the poor could actually do well -deflation hit the nation that bad. What is also interesting was that he wished to remain "poor". For 3 years he drifted between jobs, joined the striking Studebaker workers in near by South Bend in order to provide moral support (he and friends hid on emtpy rail cars that went to Indiana 4 times a day); and eventually he went to college (on his own dime). All of those hobos lived off thier own dime. Crime was relatively low -even in the urban neighborhoods of Chitown.

Saul said a single guy in Chicago could live off of $2 a week if he counted his pennies. At $5 a week, he could live like a king. My things have changed. Even Welfare Queens need around $30000 a year to "make it" even in the projects. And those young bohemians, artists, and writers have been replaced by flash-mob gangbangers.

JimH| 6.17.11 @ 9:28AM

This kind of behavior is not limited to cities and knows no race. Take a look at some of the Oxycontin users in the trailer park. Black family structure had been weakened by slavery but was well on it's way to being as solid as any other when the Great Society stepped in and put the kibosh on it. I direct you to the writings of Pat Moynahan on the subject.

David T| 6.17.11 @ 10:47AM

Yes. Walter Williams talks about growing up in Philadelphia in a mostly black, middle class neighborhood that doesn't exist anymore.

olainfree| 6.17.11 @ 9:35AM

The charter for Rev. Wright's Trinity United Church of Christ, a front for Black Liberation Theology, clearly mocked middle-class values as inimical to Black identity. No wonder references to the site were scrubbed from the 'Net.

Furthermore, the do-gooderism of the Great Society and all of its stepchildren of poverty programs destroyed the cohesiveness of the family as a source of values and income. The nameless State became the non-judgmental "parent" who allowed relativism in social mores to flourish. The problem is not one of racial inequities, although the Black family suffered most in sheer numbers in this shifting of personal responsibility to Society.

Redstateboy| 6.17.11 @ 9:42AM

It's probably just me.. but when I see one of these obvious dirtbags covered with "Tat's" - I wonder if they paid for the Ink (and Tat's - even bad one's aren't cheap) with a portion of the taxes confiscated from me. A movement is growing though.. Drug Test the swine on Public Assitance

Raoul Ortega| 6.17.11 @ 9:48AM

Looks like Timothy needs to read this:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/t.....-internet/

Especially the part about ALL CAPS IS YOUR ENEMY!!!!

And Timothy, you might also want to read up on Lysenkoism.

Stan redmond| 6.17.11 @ 9:51AM

Democrats need the votes. The more broke lazy ghetto dwellers the more liberals will be elected.

Why do democrats oppose voter ID laws? These ghetto dweelers are too damned lazy to do the paperwork to get an ID.

Petronius| 6.17.11 @ 9:54AM

Barbarism among feral youth has always been pro forma. They rule our streets because the Liberal Political Establishment allows it to fester due to their abject cowardice which they excuse through equivocation. If a person defends himself when attacked, he is no better than the mugger. Da hood or da Congo makes no difference. To the gang banger, the world owes him what he wants. When he sees something he wants, he will take it. If anybody gets in his way, that person or persons gets a 9mm or 7.62x39 response. He laughs at the police. Their sidearms are loaded with sub-sonics and can't fire unless the hoodie shoots at them first. And there will be no change short of wholesale revamping of our self serving legal establishment. Bring back the hanging judges and the gallows in front of the Courthouse. What we really need is the collective will to put a stop to this mayhem.

Pelligrino| 6.18.11 @ 3:27PM

Thank you, Petronious. Well put.

I am tired of so many no-go zones all over the map. And this isn't new. I remember them from 30 years ago.

So we're very lazy, too, in refusing to tackle the issues head on. Also weak spined?

cicero| 6.17.11 @ 9:59AM

Required reading: "Black Rednecks and White Liberals", Thomas Sowell

Mark| 6.17.11 @ 10:07AM

Mr. Orlet, like you, I live in inner-city St. Louis, have so for 35 years, and I couldn't agree with you more. It's simply too easy for the urban poor to stay in the Ghetto, with all their "freebies," ease of panhandling, and so many "guilt-ridden" democrat party progressives making a career out of tossing taxpayer-funded resources at them 24/7/365! With all that, it's simply too difficult and stressful for them to "get a job" or "move out of the hood," when less energy can be spent stealing, cheating, looting and mugging, and playing the vicitm! And when the democrat party progressives need their votes, they get some form of cash for showing up at the precint! C'mon, you live here! The ever-shrinking middle class libs who live and vote here get exactly what they deserve: a third world city!

Redstateboy| 6.17.11 @ 10:13AM

The Democrat Party didn't get the moniker (Slave Party) for nothing.

dc| 6.17.11 @ 10:55AM

Paging RCV and other totalitarian trolls--please explain to the rest of us, who are so much less intelligent and compassionate than you, why exactly the 'hood scum that Orlet describes have an inalienable right to taxpayers' money?
Our wise Ruling Class would love to turn their political enemies into slaves, just as certainly as they confiscate earned money and use it to subsidize and perpetuate this type of de facto slavery.
I owe these ghetto scum, and trailer-trash analogs, of any race, creed or color, precisely nothing.
Some leftist ass now needs to explain to me why, in fact, I do owe these people something. The old Italian saying, mainly used by those in the northern part of that country (now dying, like the rest of welfare-addicted Euroland, but that's another story), "we work, Rome eats."
We taxpaying Americans work, Washington eats, and makes sure that shiftless slaves eat and live comfortably off of our earned money. Ultimately, a prescription for civil war.

Redstateboy| 6.17.11 @ 11:04AM

dc.. if you're waiting for a Liber-ul like RCV to provide you a cogent argument as to why Your hard earned dollars are confiscated and then remitted to Welfarites who then stumble down to a voting booth to press: "D" - you'll have a long wait.
Let's face it.. the Slave Party is perpetuated by careful cultivation of a permanent Dependent class.. Remove the dependency and the Slave Party would fold like a cheap card table.

dc| 6.17.11 @ 12:11PM

I know, I know. Just once, though, I'd like pukes like RCV to admit that their entire moral philosophy rests upon their own arrogance: I'm better than you, so I have a right to your money and property. The government embodies pukes like me, so by extension, the government has a right to your money and property, and we pukes expect it to redistribute earners' money as it sees fit, but certainly, to the direct benefit of we pukes. Is that so hard to admit, when it oozes from every word and thought? The mortal clash of philosophies ought to be clear, so we Americans can either vote for/against it, or take up arms on one side or the other. Frankly I'd prefer the former--but the obfuscation and lying of the totalitarian pukes makes that very difficult. Which is why I think the latter is now virtually inevitable. I'm not sure why the pukes think they'll fare better on the battlefields than the ballot boxes, but apparently, it's a risk they're more than willing to take, consciously or not.

Redstateboy| 6.17.11 @ 2:31PM

dc.. I don't know if you listen to Rush but he says it often... Liber-uls can't be honest about who they are because if they were honest - few would vote for them that's why Liber-uls must Lie.
Why is around election time Liber-uls running for election or re-election espouse conservative values?

Anthony M| 6.18.11 @ 3:37PM

The Romans paid the Huns to keep them away, middle class suburbanites pay the ghetto dweller for the same reason. Stop welfare, and the gangs will start raiding. Eventually the Huns invaded anyway and I'm sure our barbarians will too.

Flatulus Ancien| 6.17.11 @ 11:45AM

I was an adult in the sixties when the great negro drive for equality was going on. In the Senate, the Equal rights Amendment was being debated, and a witness called to testify was a psychologist. The psychologist was asked about the intelligence of the Negro race. He stated that the average Negro had an IQ 16 points below the average Caucasian. This was disconcerting to many who heard it, for it cast a bad light indeed on those seeking "equality".
Several years later, a book, "The Bell Curve, a Study of Intelligence and Class Structure in America", was published. This book was a compilation of many studies of relative intellect, or Cognizant Ability , as IQ is now known, that concluded that the average American Negro has a Cognitive Ability of fifteen points below the average American Caucasian.
The authors pointed out that developing intelligence is strongly affected by environment. Being born and raised in an environment of low intellect will tend to keep one's own intellect from developing to it's full potential. In their discussion of the effects of environment, the authors also pointed out that the American Negro's counterpart in the jungles of Africa enjoy an additional ten points lower average Cognitive Ability.
This is not to say that all of the Negro race have low intelligence. To the contrary, the race enjoys, within that average, about the same percentage of geniuses as other races, hence the existence of the aforementioned writers, businessmen, and professors as Sowell, Williams, Cain, and yes, even Jesse.
Since the days of the Civil Rights strife, the Democrat party has used, and encouraged the ignorance of the race, and encourage sloth and poverty as a means of harvesting votes from those that are now totally dependent on the Government largess.

JimH| 6.17.11 @ 1:09PM

And the average Caucasian IQ is below that of the average Hasidic Jew and Asian. So what? The Bell Curve says that when you eliminate IQ differences which can be attributed to nutrition, culture and other environmental factors that there are still some differences. When you treat people as individuals the aggregate does not matter.

Occam's Tool| 6.19.11 @ 1:12AM

It's a funny thing about Asians---in New Zealand and, I guess, Ozzie--the Asian stereotype is generally thought of as lazy, shiftless, and not too bright or well educated. This stunned me in New Zealand.

Again, I focus on Culture, not Color. Find me a Culture that emphasizes education and hard work by the individual, and I will show you a successful culture, regardless of skin color. It is an historical fact, however, that such a culture began in Greece, Italy, and Judea.

Butch | 6.17.11 @ 2:02PM

I'm getting on up there, too, old one. I am a college professor nearing retirement. I was a doctoral student in the early 70s when Jensen, Herrenstein, and Shockley were simultaneously getting the same results from their exhaustive research on race and IQ. Two highly distinguished psychologists and a Nobel Prize-winning physicist from Harvard, Columbia, and Berkley, I believe. You have stated their independent findings accurately.

They were shouted down presenting their findings at the academic conferences, and students rioted outside, setting their cars on fire. They were widely condemned as racists. Jensen tried valiantly to explain his findings to lay people, but was met with the now-well-established gratuitous assertion that "IQ does not measure intelligence." (It does. It is a very valid and reliable measurement, as they all exhaustively documented.) Sixteen IQ points is approximately one standard deviation on the most widely-used IQ measures, meaning roughly two-thirds of a population with a mean of 84 are below the mean of 100. In high school in the 50s I read in my Civics textbook about morons, imbiciles, and idiots. [Do I date myself?] They were defined in terms of age level of intelligence, but I later learned that was roughly a high-school translation of standard deviations from the mean.

Their conclusions were completely unacceptable to egalitarians. The research was squelched and disappeared until this very day, though Herrenstein and his student, Charles Murray, did try to revive at least the concept--without the racial overtones--in The Bell Curve in the mid-90s. Yours is the first mention of the subject I have seen in more than 30 years. An entire generation does not even know it exists.

Melvin| 6.17.11 @ 3:50PM

I remember the Bell Curve, really never dug into the minutia of it. And reading your post Butch, I assume that it doesn't even exist any more.

Butch | 6.17.11 @ 4:35PM

No, The Bell Curve is still out there, Melvin. What is hard to find are the original race-and-IQ studies that preceded it by a quarter of a century. The Bell Curve pretty much confines itself to the development of an elite due to the concentration of high IQs in such as the Ivy League Colleges; that is, it focuses on intellectual superiority as opposed to intellectual inferiority.

Bill| 6.17.11 @ 11:50AM

I didn't grow up in anything like a ghetto, but I did grow up in a neighborhood of working poor people.

The first choice you made when you're about to become an adult was whether or not to finish high school. Most of us did that. Tied up in that was whether or not to have sex (this was when the Pill was not widely available to us unwashed, ignorant types and we didn't know much about it). If your girlfriend got pregnant, abortion wasn't available, so you got married and went to work in one of about 4 factories: the steel mill, the U.S. Army arsenal, the abrasives factory, or the ladder manufacturer. You might pump gas for a year or two while you got one of those better jobs and joined the union. Then you put your 20 years in and got your pension.

For a lot of us, the progression was this: high school, join the service, get out and get a job at the filling station, then get a good job and join the union and put in your time until your retirement. For many, that was the order of things, entirely acceptable and predictable. You got married after you got the good job, had a couple of kids, joined the VFW or the Masons, went to church on Sunday, had a couple of beers (hopefully not more) with the guys from work at the tavern on payday, and your life went by just fine.

It wasn't a bad life for those who didn't want to go beyond their home town. You never got rich, but if you were careful and had a little luck, you could put your kids through a community college or a state university, and hope they would get rich. If not, they'd stay in town and they'd be with you as you got old.

Some neighborhoods were dangerous, but if you stayed among your own, you could avoid most trouble and harm. You had to learn early to keep your mouth shut and not stick your neck out. Not bad life lessons.

We don't have that any more. Too bad.

Bill| 6.17.11 @ 12:05PM

If you were Catholic (as most of the folks in my town were), you joined the Knights of Columbus, not the Masons.

One of my buddies got really mad at the VFW when he got back from Vietnam in 1966 because they had a policy that they didn't let Vietnam vets in since it wasn't a war. The VFW reversed that policy a few years later as their World War II majority began to get old and fade away.

dc| 6.17.11 @ 12:16PM

I'm 1st generation American (dad was a LEGAL immigrant in the 1950s) so I can't speak directly to Bill's experience and won't pretend to judge it. But there are some clear differences between his and the "working poor" life described, and the Orlet-described gutterballs: 1) a job; 2) some sense of responsibility to community. Now, if and when anyone that works, poor or otherwise, believes that they are ENTITLED to their job or pension, then that's welfare addiction, though one level "above" the shiftless slaves of the ghettos/trailer parks. But I don't think that's what Bill is describing. And there's nothing wrong with a decent, law-abiding working class life, whether chosen or not. It's increasing rarity is due primarily to the welfare state and asinine economic policies (such as the minimum wage and forced unionism), which destroy freedom and devastate young work ethics.

Bill| 6.17.11 @ 2:26PM

Another life lesson that you had to learn early: don't annoy the men. They'd smack you one upside your head if you made a pest of yourself.

shipley130| 6.17.11 @ 12:04PM

These same urban jungle dwellers wouldn't last long if America gets back to being a real Republic. The twisting of our laws have enabled these people to survive. Serves ourselves right.

Big Leo| 6.17.11 @ 12:36PM

I love Guatemala. I remember a little coffee growing town I knew back in the seventies. The major industry was selling cheap alcohol to the coffee workers. Every Saturday night, there would be hundreds of arrests for assault, often with a deadly weapon and the barb wire stockades would be filled with the survivors and aggressors of the drunken fights. Murder was common. So was rape and strongarm robberies. Most women were unmarried mothers. They supported their children on their meager earnings. Most kids didn't go to school.

Then, the pentecostals and fundies missionaries arrived. They converted most of the population. Now, the kids go to school. People are married and have families. There are shops selling clothes, school supplies, and cheap appliances. Saturday nights net a half dozen or so violent drunks and murder is uncommon. It is a much more boring, much happier town.

You can't change society. You can, however, change people, and then society will change whether you want it to or not. People in the ghetto are poor because they want to be poor. Their whole life style guarantees that they will be poor and they will do nothing to change it. My grandmother grew up in the ghetto. Her children were skilled working class. Her grand children are professionals. Her great grand children will be senators. The problem for the ghettofellers is that they are perfectly happy being who they are. They will be there forever.

Kingofthenet| 6.17.11 @ 12:56PM

There have been Ghettos in EVERY single city in the world, in ALL times in history. If you lived in 18th Century London, the SAME EXACT thing was there, Bums, Prostitutes, Drunks, Fights and Murders(Jack the Ripper???)
Cutting Social Services isn't gonna suddenly make those Slum Dwellers 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps'. It is just going to make them MORE desperate and thuggish. Carrots and Sticks do work thou, the BEST plan. Tell Welfare people they can get ANY job paying ANY amount of money, ON THE BOOKS. They get to keep their housing and foodstamps, child care and Medicaid for 6 months to a year, no penalty or cuts. This would allow them to gain a 'nest egg' of cash to keep them permanently off the dole.Right now we DE-INCENTIVE'S work by IMMEDIATELY cutting benefits, even if you get some low wage job. Those benefits are worth MORE than $300 a week a low pay job earns. Let them BANK a little cash to give them a cushion when the benefits are gone, so they aren't on a razors edge financially.

Redstateboy| 6.17.11 @ 2:57PM

After Hurricane Katrina.. the City of Houston held a job fair. They brought together Resume services, councilors... provided buses!! at the appointed time???? No one showed!! Not ONE dirtbag refugee thought it worth their time to actually WORK!!!! We have GOT to this Crap of dependency .. it's crippling our People and destroying our Nation

dianne| 6.17.11 @ 12:59PM

I also grew up in a working class poor family in the 60's in a rural/small town, 99.9% white. Mom and dad graduated 8th grade. We didn't have a choice but to graduate high school. Dad was a drinker but a Teamster so kept his job throughout but 6 kids meant hand me downs and 1 glass of pop a week as a treat. House was spotless. The garden didn't have a weed in it because we all worked to keep them up. There was no money for college. There was no welfare, but there were orphanages and the "poor house" for the truly indigent. We all went to work after high school, were drafted into the service and Viet Nam, married young, etc.

In the late 60's, 70's, in order to get ahead, both husband and wife had to work and so we did. Some of us went back to night school and got degrees, bought small houses, then gradually moved up. We had small families and with two incomes, did well.

Fast forward to nearing retirement. Our houses are paid for. Our cars are paid for. We have pensions and some savings, some more than others. We've paid taxes since we went to work 40+ years ago. But now we're being looked at as leeches on society as we enter our ss and medicare years, while millions of people who never work are sitting on their asses drawing every kind of welfare assistance they can get their hands as the democrats pat them on their empty heads and coddle them all the way to the voting booth.

Sympathy from me? I don't think so.

Bill| 6.17.11 @ 2:18PM

Everybody in my neighborhood had at least one gun. I went through my entire childhood without ever hearing a discharge of a firearm except at the shooting range where some of us went. Everybody's father had been in World War II or Korea. A significant number of them had the military rifles they were issued when they went to war.

No promiscuous use of firearms in my neighborhood. I bet it didn't happen in your neighborhood either.

squalis| 6.17.11 @ 1:16PM

For those artists and hipsters mentioned above, was it not N. Pelosi, who advocated for Obamacare so artists would not have to worry where their health care came from? Things are progressing just as she wanted.

Seek| 6.17.11 @ 1:42PM

Finally! A slice of genuine race realism comes to TAS. A conservative here has the stones to say it: The root cause of lack of black mobility is blacks. Not "liberalism," "lack of school choice" or "Hollywood." But rather blacks themselves.

Slacker| 6.17.11 @ 1:53PM

A couple of years ago I moved into a crappy neighborhood. Figured what difference does it make where a single male rents? I could live cheap and squirrel away some money.

Living with the underclass has been an experience. The biggest problem is these unlucky folks are painfully stupid. Third generation stupid. Even if their labor was free no employer could risk having them because they are walking liabilities.

Bright parents can help a dull kid along. Dumb parents seem to produce lots more dummies in roughly 17 year cycles. Maybe they want to be poor, maybe they don’t. It hardly matters when someone is to dull to work.

Big Leo| 6.17.11 @ 1:57PM

The expression of stupidity you are searching for is "Couldn't pour pee out of a rubber boot if the instructions were on the bottom."

Bill| 6.17.11 @ 2:14PM

We used to say, "dumb as a box of rocks."

Big Leo| 6.17.11 @ 2:01PM

I tried panhandling once as a social experiment. I was making about twenty dollars an hour. The job I was doing paid about twenty three. I could have broken even just on dry cleaning for the suits I had to wear on my real job.

Redstateboy| 6.17.11 @ 3:10PM

I grew up in a working class white neighborhood where most of the Moms stayed home including mine and we had 4 kids (one handicapped) and my dad had is own house painting business and he worked Alone. The homes were neat and painted and in the summer - people sat on their porchs at night... just before we moved.. each new kid in class was black.. and now today? You'd need an Armored Humvee to drive those same streets and if you didn't know better, you'd think you were in Mogadishu instead of the East side of Buffalo, NY. and that was 40 years ago!! 40 years and nothing's changed otherthan it's gotten worse.

All American American| 6.17.11 @ 3:36PM

Haha the same thing can be said about my childhood and childhood neighboorhood. I grew up in a lower-middle class neighborhood in Philadelphia. Yeah they were row homes, but everyone took care of their homes. Anyway after awhile the old folks died and others moved (me I joined the military and now live in a beautiful Southern town) and the neighborhood was turned into low-rent/HUD housing for the blacks on welfare.

I visited about a year ago and man, never again will I take my young kids into that environment. Drugs, prostitution, kids running around with no supervision, cars getting broken into or vandalized. Grown men out playing cards and drinking at about 10 am instead of working. You see that and you just wanna level the whole fricking thing.

Pat| 6.17.11 @ 3:17PM

Strange piece of self-contradictory logic here. In one paragraph, Orlet invokes the wisdom of the ancients regarding the poor. In the next, he asks why the poor can’t escape from the ghetto. So, according to Orlet, we’ve had the poor with us since very ancient times but somehow we should expect our own poor to buck the inescapable reality of human history and lift themselves out of poverty? Well, “Duh, dude”. Isn’t it conceivably possible Americans gestated this absurd nonsense with a wrong-headed starting premise – that the poor needn’t be poor and that, somehow, we have the first time in recorded history ability to help them not be poor? How can thinking adults entertain such a charmingly witless idea? And what is so unique about our America which renders us exempt from the realities of all past societies and cultures?

Journey north on Woodward Ave. to 8 mile road in Detroit – look east, look west, see any high fences? Physical barriers keeping Detroiters inside Detroit are no more real, or effective, than the barriers keeping illegals out of the United States. The only barriers present are those invisible fences stemming directly from individual thought and historical culture. And the only reason we actually care about the poor is due to our self-imposed guilt and the resulting embarrassment that many Americans aren’t equally poor.

The question could easily be turned around and posed as why shouldn’t there be poor Americans - as it was in every century past and in every society past? And why should some Americans, whether cloistered academics or young community organizers, be allowed to embrace juvenile wish fulfillment using other people’s money to fund their irrational dreams?

Seek| 6.17.11 @ 3:36PM

As a St. Louis native myself, trust me: If you're white and anywhere west of downtown, east of the city limits, north of Delmar or south of Natural Bridge, run as fast as you can. The only exception is if you're packing some serious heat, a la Clint Eastwood or Charles Bronson.

All-black neighborhoods = lots of crime. Always.

Kingofthenet| 6.17.11 @ 3:55PM

This has NOTHING to do with being Black, that racist garbage has to go, otherwise someone please explain how pigment you have in your skin has an effect on your work ethic? The problem is part the environment they grow up in, the Middle Class and Rich, have TONS of shiftless bums in their midst too, but family can come to the rescue to make them 'appear' respectable. How many families have some dumb daughter or son working for the family business because they couldn't get a real job anywhere else?

Seek| 6.17.11 @ 4:50PM

This has everything to do with race, champ. I can't think a single white neighborhood in America that can be called dangerous. Such areas may have their share of dysfunctional families, but nobody has to fear for their life or property. In an all-black neighborhood, by contrast, even law-abiding blacks live in fear, never mind the accidental white visitor.

As an aside, those conservatives who are determined to root out "racism" from their ranks are doing the dirty work of the Left. To depict blacks as helpless "victims" of liberalism is merely a variation on the theme of casting them as "victims" of conservatism.

Nick| 6.18.11 @ 12:12AM

Seek,

You spew garbage, racist pig.

Come to Detroit, and I will direct you to some white neighborhoods where you wouldn't get out of your car. You would lock the doors and step on the gas.

Haven't you ever watched Cops?

missbosslady| 6.18.11 @ 1:43PM

Nick,

Haha! You cite the show Cops!?! That's hilarious. Perhaps you missed the interview with the creator of Cops where he admitted that they intentionally showed more footage with whites so as not to reinforce the "stereotype" that a large majority of crimes are committed by blacks.

Thanks for the laughs!

Why don't you amble on over to the Feds web site and check the stats on crime in the US. You've got a lot to learn.

Nick| 6.18.11 @ 3:36PM

Miss Boss Lady,

I'm glad I could provide you with a great guffaw (I'm sure you'll have to look that up.) And, I do find Cops very entertaining, which is why I watch.

Yes, I did hear the interview with the producer of the show. Are you claiming that they are making-up the crimes committed by the white people?

Perhaps reading comprehension is not your strong suit. I never asserted that there are more high crime white neighborhoods than there are high crime black neighborhoods.

I was merely rebuking Seek's false, stupid, and racist contention that there aren't any dangerous white neighborhoods in America. I also condemn Seek's racist allegation: "All-black neighborhoods = lots of crime. Always."

As you are too lazy to use capital letters or the space bar when you type your moniker, I find it hard to believe that you have taken the time to read FBI statistics.

Your snarky, sarcastic diatribe was uncalled for.
I expect an apology, forthwith, ma'am.

missbosslady| 6.18.11 @ 4:18PM

Since you liberally use the word racist and are generally insulting in your responses you'll receive no apologies from me.

I'm sure that as an apologist you find many things hard to believe, however that does not make them untrue.

P.S. When one needs to resort to ad hominen attacks in their rebuttal it is generally indicative of a lack of knowledge and facts.

Nick| 6.18.11 @ 5:38PM

Miss Boss Lady,

When have I ever insulted you?
Until my previous comment, that is, in which I was responding with the same respect that you showed to me.

You attack me (for no reason) with a straw man (that means that you argued against a point I never made) and you have the nerve to act offended? Is it my fault that you can't read plain English?

If my resorting to "ad hominen [sic]" is indicative of my lack of knowledge and facts, what is your straw man argument indicative of, Miss Boss Lady?

You certainly don't know the definition of the word liberally, either. A person who states as fact that ALL neighborhoods, which are composed of predominately one race, i.e., black, are "[a]lways" going to be high crime neighborhoods; this person is not a racist in your opinion?

A sure sign of a bleeding heart liberal is their inability to admit that they were wrong, and, apologize for it. Because, that would take humility. Something you lack, ma'am.

Seek| 6.20.11 @ 2:24PM

What you call "racist garbage" (funny how Red State "culture war" types affect the language of the Left in their avoidance of race as a factor in human behavior), I call realism. As for dangerous white neighborhoods in Detroit, hell, it's hard to find ANY all-white neighborhoods, much less dangerous ones. I'm not sure if the last white guy to leave Detroit was either Eminem or the White Stripes' Jack White, but in any event, there aren't too many left.

Simple numbers: the 2010 Census counted a little under 715,000 residents of Detroit, a 25% drop from 10 years earlier. Of that total, 82.7% were black and just 10.6% were white. I'd like to know what these dangerous white areas are -- and whether they are as dangerous as the black ones.

Maybe you'd like to take me up on the following experiment: Take a walk down Woodward Avenue from 8 Mile Road to the Fox Theater -- and back -- for the next five days. Let's see how long you last without being threatened, assaulted or robbed. If you go through the week unscathed, I'll revise my opinion.

Nick| 6.20.11 @ 8:12PM

Seek,

Eminem was from Warren, brainiac. Which was one of the areas I was thinking of. Walk through the white neighborhoods between 8 Mile and 9 Mile and Van Dyke. See how long you'll last.

Or, how about Hazel Park? Allen Park? Lincoln Park? Redford? Ferndale?

Your statement was asinine. And racist. Why can't you just admit it?

p.s. Did it really take you 3 days to look up simple statistics?

Seek| 6.21.11 @ 12:12PM

Actually, it took me a couple minutes to look up simple statistics. I'm usually busy at my job -- some people, however, seem to have nothing but time on their hands. Thus, the "wait" of three days.

Asinine? For that, look in your mirror.

Nick| 6.21.11 @ 3:37PM

What? You're not going to claim that those white neighborhoods are safe?

Your non-responsiveness speaks volumes.

This is why your statement is asinine, false, stupid, and racist.

Seek| 6.22.11 @ 12:26PM

Nick:

Let's get this straight, as you are incapable of rebutting me without threatening, ridiculing or otherwise playing the role of enforcer.

1) Orlet's article was about St. Louis, not Detroit. I know St. Louis at least as well as you know Detroit. I grew up there and I'm more than entitled to talk about my experiences (good and bad) there. Tough luck if you don't like it.

2) The fact that Eminem grew up a little north of 8 Mile instead of a little south of it -- gee, terrible mistake -- in no way negates reality: Black neighborhoods as a whole are much more dangerous than whites. I've known my share of ugly white people, but the menace in black areas is far greater. I don't take any joy in saying it, but it's been an experience common to many. Even a number of law-abiding blacks have said the same thing to me.

3) Let the Left worry about excoriating and tormenting whites for making "racist" comments. Conservatives, real ones anyway, have better things to do.

4) I consider people like you rather dull.

Nick| 6.22.11 @ 8:28PM

Seek,

Gee, that's a whole lot of words to admit you were wrong, without actually admitting it.

"Black neighborhoods as a whole are much more dangerous than whites."

That is not what you originally wrote. Don't move the goal posts. I took issue with what you actually wrote. Which was racist.

What, am I the Amazing Kreskin? Am I supposed to intuit what you meant? It's not my fault that you can't express yourself well with the written word.

p.s. When did I threaten you? Or, are you saying that you are "Sheila"?

Mike Giles| 6.18.11 @ 12:45AM

This has everything to do with race, champ. I can't think a single white neighborhood in America that can be called dangerous. Such areas may have their share of dysfunctional families, but nobody has to fear for their life or property. In an all-black neighborhood, by contrast, even law-abiding blacks live in fear, never mind the accidental white visitor.

Oh, enough of this crap. I guess it's blacks, in all those trailer parks, that are cooking up meth. Geeze. Even in the original article, the author noted that all the people in the neighborhood were neither thugs nor unwed welfare mothers. But that can't possibly be, since they're also black. It never ceases to amaze me, that if you have ten, poor, but hardworking, blacks and one thug, the thug is always pointed out as representative of "all blacks". The problem with far too many conservative sites is posters like Seek, who can't seem to tell the difference between skin color and culture. The author was speaking of a cultural problem. A culture of laziness, anti intellectualism, and entitlement. A culture that not all - or even most - blacks belong to. BTW, I guess sucking off the government teat is only bad if you're a welfare queen - if you're General Electric, or Planned Parenthood, or Barney Frank - then it's okay. You mention Dr Sowell, or Herman Cain, or Dr Williams in passing; and then continue on as if they never existed. All blacks are represented by some hoodlum on a corner, sipping a "forty".

missbosslady| 6.18.11 @ 1:40PM

It's called statistics Mike. The facts don't lie no matter how you try to twist them.

Do some homework as you clearly have no idea about what you are writing about.

Bill| 6.20.11 @ 8:49AM

If the poster thinks there are white neighborhoods that aren't truly dangerous, he hasn't been around much. For example, Arthur Avenue in the Bronx was a place you didn't go if you were a stranger, and that was an Italian neighborhood. Under some circumstances, you could wind up hanged from the nearest street lamp.

Seek| 6.20.11 @ 2:26PM

The white underclass is much more prevalent in rural than in urban areas. I don't defend those people, but taken as a whole, whites are less lethal than blacks.

Melvin| 6.17.11 @ 3:58PM

We keep hearing the term, "What about the poor." This phrase is much like the term racist, it is an overly used and least understood phrase.
I remember back during the huge Tsunami that engulfed the Indian Ocean area and one scrawny but well versed resident whose whole life was destroyed in a single wave made the comment to a news reporter. He went, "You describe Katrina victims as being poor, but you see here, I live in a small hut, and I am hungry all the time, but when I watch TV I saw the poor in New Orleans living in big houses and they are very big compared to me, so who is poor?"
This isn't really the news ferret expected to hear, but to their credit they went with it.
Poor is like political districts it constantly shifts and changes to meet ones own political ends I suppose.

Richard Baker| 6.17.11 @ 4:02PM

Is this the "black experience" that we're endlessly reminded by the lefties as being "authentic?" Didn't know that to be an "authentic" black that degradation and destruction are the "real deal." For this Dr. King and Medgar Evers died?

George Collins| 6.17.11 @ 4:49PM

The issues in the Black community in the US are largely environmental. The problems brought on by a legacy of slavery and marginalization brought Blacks to the brink, but there is a shift that is gathering momentum and will hit critical mass soon, certainly in the next decade. The world is changing faster than most of you morons would know. Black incomes are rising faster than White incomes, and Blacks are becoming a bigger share of the student population at many top colleges and universities in the US. "These liberal academics are stacking the deck against whites" you will probably cry, and make noises about affirmative action, but it's not the case. GPAs and standardized test scores are going up faster among Blacks than Whites as well. Yes, there is a ghetto mentality that persists, and many denizons of the ghetto don't want to leave. It's got its own comforts, as do the impoverished dumps in Appalachia that see generations of uneducated white people who never leave.

missbosslady| 6.18.11 @ 1:37PM

I hate to break it to you George, but the increase and improvements you cite are all manufactured. Improvement does not come by lowering the bar, it is a fallacy and one for which we will certainly pay a dear price. Do you really want your doctor to have a lower standard just so you can soothe your white guilt? If so, that is pathetic and suicidal. Regarding blacks in the work force please note that the majority of those jobs are in the public sector, again manufactured jobs to create your manufactured data. It's all a ruse.

With respect to your nod to the environment please see my post below by Darwin.

George, you are a good little tool. Bravo!

Albert| 6.17.11 @ 7:47PM

"More and more I am becoming convinced that the reason many poor do not escape poverty is simply because they do not want to."

Implicit in this is they don't HAVE to either. They are subsidized in their poverty, so they don't need to rise above it. Plus we live in a society that romanticizes and even glorifies ghetto existence. Middle class whites are imitating ghetto blacks with droopy drawers, do-rags, hoodie sweatshirts, and even "ebonics." Hollywood produces trash like "American Beauty" and many other flicks, where everything that is deporable and deviant resides in the American middle class.

As long as ghetto life is "cool" it will be glorified. As long as government subsiudizes poverty, there will be people willing, even eager to stay in poverty. Ancient Roman Senators drove families off farms and into the cities and exploited their plight by subsidizing their food, shelter, and entertainments, requiring only political support at the elections in return. As long as Democrats subsidize the ghetto proletariat in exchange for votes, poverty will continue.

Pelligrino| 6.18.11 @ 4:06PM

Albert, you are right. Note how even rappers are given their due when they speak to some "issue of the day." Why? What might a rapper have of value to share verbally with others?

Ah, yes, the romantized urban prose masters of the late 20th and early 21st centuries.

Note how even ghetto graffiti is lionized as high art.

The poor are exploited not just for their votes -- if they can sober up and make it to the polls. They are primarily exploited as very useful statistics.

They are props you need in the production to fully convince the audience.

Isn't it heartless to cut foodstamps if one is told repeatedly that 1/3 the city's population needs the aid?

artesian jacket| 6.17.11 @ 9:13PM

Got news for you George, the "morons" are right and you are wrong. It really has not changed and if you are going to huff about standardized test scores you should at least know that "Black" and "White" should not be capitalized.

Kingofthenet| 6.17.11 @ 9:28PM

WOW, Alot of 'Motivated Reasoning' going on here, don't know what that is? Read & Learn:

http://motherjones.com/politic.....ris-mooney

Nick| 6.18.11 @ 12:07AM

Go away, Kook of the Net.
And, take your commie links with ya'!

PCP Smoker| 6.17.11 @ 11:00PM

This is awesome. Thank you. In the end the ebb and flow of society ensures that water rises to its own level. Great reporting. Keep at it. And keep your head down.

cheap t shirts | 6.18.11 @ 5:22AM

It must be wonderful to enter the colorful summer with nice cheap T shirts
See the variety selections on our store! http://www.summeringbrands.com

Gary| 6.18.11 @ 9:28AM

Let’s say I had an idea to take over a small burnt-out factory building nearby and move my labor-intensive business into it. Let’s say I’m doing this to keep jobs here and to claim “Made in America” for my products. Now, let’s say I will train anyone who is willing to take a job within walking distance of their home and come to work every day and get paid. Let’s say I’m offering both full and part time jobs.
Now, who do you think will step in and put up a thousand barriers to block this plan? Not the people who live nearby. Plenty of them would love to have a job so close to home. Nope… it would be our friends from every government agency we’ve ever hear of and some we haven’t heard of.
he result? The factory building remains a burnt-out hulk and no lives are changed for the better. And, in frustration, I take my jobs to China and get blasted on the evening news for being just another a greedy, profit-seeking business owner who runs a third-world sweat shop.

missbosslady| 6.18.11 @ 1:30PM

"Since the dawn of history the negro has owned the continent of Africa - rich beyond the dream of poet’s fancy, crunching acres of diamonds beneath his bare black feet. Yet he never picked one up from the dust until a white man showed to him its glittering light. His land swarmed with powerful and docile animals, yet he never dreamed a harness, cart, or sled. A hunter by necessity, he never made an axe, spear, or arrowhead worth preserving beyond the moment of its use. He lived as an ox, content to graze for an hour. In a land of stone and timber he never sawed a foot of lumber, carved a block, or built a house save of broken sticks and mud. With league on league of ocean strand and miles of inland seas, for four thousand years he watched their surface ripple under the wind, heard the thunder of the surf on his beach, the howl of the storm over his head, gazed on the dim blue horizon calling him to worlds that lie beyond, and yet he never dreamed a sail.” — Charles Darwin

Nick| 6.18.11 @ 5:40PM

Miss Boss Lady,

So....you are a Godless atheist?

Occam's Tool| 6.19.11 @ 1:04AM

My own belief, based on years of working with white, black, Maori, and American Indian underclass members, is that it is CULTURE, not skin color, that decides things.

The values a child learns are far more important than melanin in determining outcome. If you feel guilty for winning a full tuition scholarship to a school that is not Harvard, your culture is far more likely to make you into a high powered physician or attorney than a culture which does not shame you for NOT earning a GED.

I have experienced both types of cultures described. My daughter is of Native Blood from a biological mother of no education, but her upbringing is going to be of the other type. I predict that she will be the first Mayan US Supreme Court justice.

JimH| 6.19.11 @ 10:26AM

Well said, Mr. Tool. A point I was trying to make earlier about The Bell Curve, was that it shows that there may in fact be racial differences in average IQ. However, these differences can be small compared to cultural factors, and largely irrelevant if you believe in treating people as individuals. In passing I'll say it is disappointing to see how many nasty racists are at this site. I can only hope that the bulk of them are troll provocateurs. BTW I suspect that my family is even more ethnically and racially diverse than yours. I don't know if it means anything but the side of the family with the higher albedo has produced Harvard and Princeton grads and the fairer side has some ex cons. Anyway, Happy Father's Day all.

JimH| 6.20.11 @ 8:13AM

Sorry, got my albedos backwards. I sometimes do that with ph to.

JimH| 6.18.11 @ 5:19PM

What Darwin describes is a nomadic herdsmen culture, pretty much anywhere in the world. Since you are fond of citing Darwin, will be hearing quotes from Margret Sanger next? After all we do need to limit those inferior races.

missbosslady| 6.18.11 @ 5:55PM

Nick & JimH,

Why are you libtards so obtuse?

Yours are the stupidest questions imaginable.

Nick| 6.18.11 @ 6:32PM

Miss Boss Lady,

Libtard?
Moi?

You must be new here, at AmSpec. To call me liberal is like calling Calvin Coolidge, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, et al, liberal.

This is by far the most inane thing you have written, yet. But, it's early.

Nick| 6.18.11 @ 6:37PM

p.s. Where's the answers to my questions, from above? And where's my apology?

Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 6.19.11 @ 7:22AM

Nick: Ha,ha, missracistlady called you a Libtard!!

This article certainly brought out a "great" crowd this weekend didn't it? I was called a Liberal D*MB*SS myself by Timothy on Friday, so don't feel too bad, but at least he has a TRACK RECORD here, I've never seen her here before.

So their plan for winning in 2012 and beyond (if I got it right), is to write off the entire Black vote, by throwing a blanket over all of them, and calling all of them stupid, lazy, animals, criminals, and what not. What a way to win over the hearts and minds of an entire segment of our population, huh? With friends like these, who needs Democrats as your enemy? I better be careful here, somebody's bound to call me a Liberal again.

Nick| 6.19.11 @ 3:55PM

Lullabys, Legends and Lies,

I guess we libtards will have to stick together, huh? Ha-ha!

I see no difference between MBL, Sheila, and Bill Ayers. They are all haters.

Sheila| 6.18.11 @ 10:43PM

Nick, name calling and use of shaming language is hardly a way to convince people that your argument is sound. Personally, I prefer scientific studies and facts to emotional, knee-jerk right-liberal speech codes. Take a look at the following, and then try to rebut the facts with specific information and links (hint pal - you can't).

http://unamusementpark.wordpre.....nce-flyer/

http://unamusementpark.wordpre.....ime-flyer/

missbosslady| 6.19.11 @ 11:11AM

Ooooh Sheila,

You're being reported! Yikes!

How dare you try to refute Nick's anecdotal BS with facts. :)

I'll bet one of those darling Flash Mobs could get ol' Nick to change his tune.

Just sayin'

Nick| 6.19.11 @ 4:02PM

Let me guess, MBL, you and Sheila get together to sew each other's sheets?

Nick| 6.18.11 @ 11:52PM

I really don't care what you prefer, Sheila.

I was not rebutting "facts" of any kind. I was rebutting false, stupid, and racist assertions by Seek.

Seek's claims are bogus. I offered my own testimony as proof, as I personally know of white neighborhoods that are crime-ridden, which no one with common sense would visit, unless they had to.

But, in case Seek did not want to take my word for it, I offered proof that anyone can see for themselves: Cops. Anybody who has watched the show regularly has seen dangerous white neighborhoods.

It's not emotional or a speech code. It is anecdotal evidence that Seek's mere assertions were false, stupid and racist. If someone spouts racist garbage, I will call them a racist. You don't like it? Tough.

I doubt it is possible to persuade you of anything, as you can't even understand what my argument was. It wasn't about which racial groups have more crime. My only points were that dangerous white neighborhoods do, in fact, exist; every single black neighborhood is not crime-ridden; and, that anyone who denies these simple facts is a racist.

And now, since I wrote this before I went to your racist links, I am convinced that you are willfully ignorant. I'm surprised you have time to blog between your Klan meetings.
Go away, racist pig!

Nick| 6.18.11 @ 11:53PM

p.s. I will be reporting you to the moderator of this site.

philfl63| 6.19.11 @ 12:24AM

Hey Andrew B.,

When I was in seventh grade (forcibly bussed to a majority colored school), I was stabbed with a compass point wielded by some big kneegrow kid. We had recently moved to the south from the west coast. I spent the entire seventh grade in that school, and that was the beginning of my path to racial prejudice. And yes, poor people on welfare have no desire or resolve to get off welfare. You can ask one of my Section 8 tenants.

weddingdresses | 6.20.11 @ 2:26AM

p.s. I will be reporting you to the moderator of this site.

ShortNSweet| 6.20.11 @ 3:06PM

May I make a suggestion? I once read a short analogy of where the races of the world came from, and it goes something like this....Ref. Genesis 9:18-28.....Noah and his three sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth....vs. 25-27 says Ham because of his sin against his father was cursed (black race) to be the servants of servants, and Shem (Jews) were to be blessed, and Japheth (gentiles) would be blessed by living in Shem's tents....which means that by a jew (Jesus) all would be saved...The entire story is found in Genesis 8:20 thru Genesis 10:32. The bible tells who Noah's decendants were and to where they went from the mountain of Ararat where the ark landed.
I believe this analogy! Everything can be explained by the bible. NOW, all that said, we middle class folks are footing the bill, but not for long . We will all soon go broke, and those who lack the skills, will go back to serving those with skills, and we will all be working our tails off to feed our families...

Fred| 6.22.11 @ 12:17PM

You sir are a racist asshole. This stuff is awful

Christian Louboutin | 6.23.11 @ 6:24AM

Social scientists for decades have sought to explain the dogged persistence of poverty. The received wisdom is the poor are passive victims who would like nothing better than to exchange their hoodies and droopy drawers for the Polos and plaid slacks of the middle-class. To illustrate this, sociologists have concocted numberless arcane and byzantine theories.

Adult toys | 7.4.11 @ 12:52AM

You sir are a racist asshole. This stuff is awful

Lewis| 11.29.11 @ 2:54PM

Ghetto, trailer park, suburbs, gated estates-it does not matter ones physical domain-those who work to fatigue in a legal manner in any capacity for any wage (even no wage at all) are being smiled upon by the heavens. The slackers in this life will be the footstools for the hard workers in the next life.

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