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Car Guy
Bigger Is Still Safer
So what else is new? About that IIHS SUV safety report…
Have you read this new Insurance Institute for Highway Safety report about the crashworthiness of “SUVs”? Apparently, not many of the reporters who’ve been covering it have. More likely, they just don’t know much about cars — or SUVs.
Because even though most of the news coverage I’ve heard touts the safety of the latest-generation SUVs, ostensibly due to government mandates such as electronic stability control as well as major redesigns by the car companies to make them less top heavy and tipsy — the first two vehicles on the IIHS list are the Audi A6 and the Mercedes Benz E-Class.
Uh, well. Ok. But these are both passenger cars. Not SUVs. Heck, they’re as far from being SUVs as it gets. Both the A6 and E-Class Benz are large luxury-sport sedans.
Ur. Uh. There’s something else. IIHS describes these two as being “4WD.”
Apparently, IIHS doesn’t know much about passenger cars either. The A6 and E-Class do offer all-wheel-drive. But AWD is not 4WD. AWD is a car-based system without a two-speed transfer case and Low range gearing. It is not designed for off-road work. Many modern passenger cars offer some type of AWD system, but real SUVs are based on trucks — not cars — and offer 4WD, with a two-speed transfer case and Low range gearing. Capice?
Which brings up another item.
Other models listed by IIHS and touted as “SUVs” just look like SUVs but are in fact cars where it counts. For example the Ford Edge — number four on the IIHS list. Its chassis and other underthings are sourced form the Ford Taurus sedan. Which is — you guessed it — a car.
The Edge is technically a crossover — a car-based wagon that offers AWD. But it is fundamentally a passenger car and not an SUV.
Ditto the Honda CR-V and the Acura MDX and the Lexus RX (the latter being an ES350 in drag; the latter of that being a Camry in drag).
And the Toyota Sienna? Number three on the IIHS list? That’s a freakin’ minivan, for crying out loud.
Someone throw me a bone here — please.
I’m not sure what the point of the IIHS report — or the media coverage of the “new safe” (cough) SUVs is supposed to be. Perhaps it’s more catchy than just saying, bigger and heavier vehicles tend to be more crashworthy than smaller, lighter ones.
Because that was true 10 years ago, at the apogee of the Ford Explorer/Firestone tire debacle.
And it’s just as true today.
The only real change that’s happened in the interim is that real-deal SUVs have become less popular while a new class of looks-like-SUVs-but-aren’t has become the new In Thing. These are crossovers, the aforesaid vehicles that look sort of like an SUV but are built on a passenger car chassis (almost always a front-wheel-drive-based passenger car chassis) that offer some form of light-duty AWD, but not truck-style 4WD with Low range gearing.
About the Author
Eric Peters is an automotive columnist and author of Automotive Atrocities: The Cars You Love to Hate (Motor Books International) and a new book, Road Hogs.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (56) | Leave a comment
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Moe Blotz| 6.16.11 @ 6:36AM
The crossover looks like a station wagon,or estate as our British cousins label them. The SUV became so popular because our uncle made achieving fleet fuel mileage goals more important than safety and utiliky.(A little Popeye lingo there) IIHS exists to herd the great unwashed toward the government mandated preferred travel module by doling out propaganda. Sometimes IIHS is forced to print the truth such as crashing a big car into a little car almost always favours the big car.
Henrietta Heatherspoon| 6.16.11 @ 8:19AM
Henrietta Heatherspoon here with Happy Father's Day Wishes!
And for all of you whose fathers have died and are up in heaven smiling down on you, I'd like to offer this touching little poem in memory of your departed fathers:
I've written a letter to Daddy
His address is Heaven above
I've written "Dear Daddy, we miss you
And wish you were with us to love"
Instead of a stamp, I put kisses
The postman says that's best to do
I've written a letter to Daddy
Saying "I love you"
HAPPY FATHER'S DAY!
(and God bless Am Spectator and all of its editors, especially the lovable, huggable Ben Stein!)
Jake| 6.16.11 @ 9:41AM
Who the hell is this Henrietta crackpot? This site really attracts the loonies.
Steve A| 6.16.11 @ 9:52AM
Jake, It's probably Ben Stein's wife.
janice | 6.16.11 @ 8:34AM
Ok, I see the point that SUV's are safer for the driver, yet still not safer for the environment in terms of emission. I think people should take this in consideration when making car choices.
Steve A| 6.16.11 @ 9:17AM
Janice, I do take this into consideration every time my F-350 Dually buzzes by an idiot piloting a "Smart" car wearing a crash helmet "saving the Earth."
Dan Hirsch| 6.16.11 @ 10:08AM
Janice,
Honey, safer for the environment? How about you consider that 2010 vehicle emissions are 100 times less than they were in the 1980's. The difference between those vehicles and the current vehicles is like this. Imagine yourself fitting a size 200 dress. Now after twenty years of dieting, you are a perfect size 2. Your best friend, who also has an SUV, went from a size 220 to a size 3. (That's a jr. size, isn't it?) When you two go out for girls night out, do the fellows your winking at really care about the difference between a size 2 and 3? Between a size 2 and 200? You know.
Now there is a gal down the street who has not gone on the big diet, she's driving around in a twenty five year old pickup truck that needs a valve job (ya know, light grey smoke comes out of the exhaust pipe when ever she pulls away from a stop.) It's still a size 220. That's the source of your urban smog, not you two thin things in your sizes 2 and 3.
To quote Eric, capice?
PS And another thing. When the feds test vehicles for impact safety, they don't smash em all with the same weight, or smack em into an infinitely heavy object. They smack the big ones with big ones -Suburbans smashing into Suburbans. And those stupid Smart cars into bicycles. Those Smart pilots need more than a helmet! They need body armor, fire suits, and up-to-date wills. But don't expect the feds to tell you that...Sheesh!
George S| 6.16.11 @ 3:55PM
In my over sized, politically incorrect SUV, my toddler sites well above the bumpers of cars, safely ensconced within 3 tons of good ole Korean steel, safe from the Greenie in a not-so-smart car running a stop sign while entering the nearest Starbucks into his gps. My point? I am not about to sacrifice my kid to the archangels of Gaia. I know, I know... it's just not fair.
JimH| 6.16.11 @ 8:42AM
Were these ratings the result of tests or real world statistics? There is a tendency to build the car to the test rather than actual conditions. When the crash occurs the larger vehicle has a few things going for it. Being larger there is more metal and larger crumple zone between the driver and what is being hit. Remember the VW bus? When hitting another vehicle, if you are larger your inertia will be transferred to the other vehicle. I wonder if a larger vehicle is safer when hitting a fixed object because there is that much more momentum to absorb. One thing to consider though is that these numbers only address the crash, lighter move nimble cars may well be better able to avoid the crash in the first place. Regarding ABS and such, I’ve seen somewhere, maybe Car and Driver, that these systems have not really had the desired affect because people do not drive as carefully because they expect these systems to bail them out.
Hillel| 6.16.11 @ 8:47AM
I was once hit by a Volkswagon and had to go to the Doctor to have it removed....
Steve A| 6.16.11 @ 9:17AM
Hillel, That.......was funny.
JimH| 6.16.11 @ 10:26AM
Is that how you got the bug up your A**? ;->
Big Leo| 6.16.11 @ 11:44AM
Hope it wasn't a rear end collision.
Notary Sojac| 6.16.11 @ 8:55AM
Eric:
"Crashworthy" and "safer" are not synonyms.
I drove the kids (one at a time) around for years in a Honda S2000 and never felt unsafe in the least, because I had a car which was capable of accelerating, maneuvering, and braking its way out of trouble, and I knew how to drive it.
An SUV may well be "safer" for the driver who texts, eats, and primps his/her way blithely through traffic, counting upon the ability to wreak greater damage on whatever he or she hits, but that's -not- me, thanks very much.
Kevin Compton| 6.16.11 @ 11:00AM
Yes! SUV's are safe to their driver's and a menace to those of us who choose to drive a car, especially when those SUV driver's are as you describe them.
Dan Hirsch| 6.16.11 @ 11:45AM
Okay. So everyone driving a car bigger than yours is a threat to YOU. So stay off the road, cry baby, scaredy cat!
Omellettes come from broken egg shells, profit only comes from risks taken, life has to be lived and then it's over.
If you spend your time cowering from everything you can imagine happening to you, you better get comfortable under your covers. Oops! HAve you heard about the bedbug thing on the east coast. Look out!
If you are worried about getting squished, get a bigger vehicle or stay of the road. And stop whining. Ya know they are destroying our currency? That'll squish us all flatter than any overloaded semi will.
Sheesh.
Kevin Compton| 6.16.11 @ 11:58AM
My primary vehicle is a '98 Gran Prix. My secondary vehicle is a '66 T-Bird. Just saying....
Big Leo| 6.16.11 @ 12:26PM
Kevin -- Your cars are a menace to Prius, smart car, motorcycle, bicycle, and other small vehicle drivers. Get rid of it and buy a motorcycle if you really think you should be able to dictate what size vehicle other people drive.
Kevin Compton| 6.16.11 @ 12:39PM
My comments aren't meant to dictate the size or type of vehicle others choose to drive. My comments are meant to remind people that whatever your choice of transportation you should be considerate to the people around you. While "might makes right" is usually an apt phrase it really shouldn't apply to the way we drive.
Big Leo| 6.16.11 @ 1:58PM
Fair enough. Too many people want to dictate or bully others into getting what they consider to be 'sensible' cars.
Big Leo| 6.16.11 @ 11:41AM
My friends in the ambulance and funeral businesses disagree with you.
Steve A| 6.16.11 @ 9:20AM
Notary, Wow, you really are a miserable human. So, according to you, most or all SUV drivers are inconsiderate, superficial operators bent on destroying other motorists &/or the Earth. Must suck to be as dumb as you.
Melvin| 6.16.11 @ 9:36AM
I used to drive an old Buick LeSabre, that the water pump leaked so bad that I had to carry a jug of water around with me to fill up the radiator every time I stopped somewhere.
My favorite pooch tore up the interior when some punks teased her while I was in Books a million.
I finally took my cheap backside down to one of the dealers and saw a 2007 Chevy Trailblazer. The owner that traded it in appeared to have taken good care of it. I'm not the smallest guy in the world anymore, my back and knees hurt like sin every day, but when I get into this vehicle my back goes ahhhh, I can stretch my legs out to the brake and the accelerator. When I get out I just rotate and hop out, instead of crawling out with stiff knees that have been pushed up my nostrils like some of these cockroach cars that I have ridden in.
The reason I say cockroach cars, because only a cockroach could find a way to get into them.
Now the Misses and I can go on trips and not be worn out when we get to our destination.
I'm eight miles away from work and for one work week I'll burn a 1/4 of a tank, and that straight six does even better on the highway.
Jimmy Carter forced me into his version of the cockroach cars when he created the gas crisis during his failed presidency and I'll be damned now, to ever drive one of those clown cars again.
Kevin Compton| 6.16.11 @ 11:03AM
I was working as a mechanic back in the 90's the first time I saw a 2WD "SUV". It was a "4Runner". We all just shook our heads and said "station wagon". Now they are calling them "Cross-Overs" which reminds me of "cross-dresser" and they're still just station wagons.
DG in GA| 6.16.11 @ 11:51AM
You are absolutely right, the "crossover" is really a station wagon. It's a roomier car, that doesn't have the truck feel and handling of an SUV. But men are LOATHE to drive station wagons. Frankly, the SUV became so popular because it was a "minivan for men." Most people who drive SUVs don't really NEED an SUV, they just wouldn't be caught dead in a minivan.
That said, I think the auto manufacturers should be able to build and sell the cars that people want to buy. Period. And those people who want to drive little roller skate cars like the SMART car, feeling all smug and superior because they're "saving the planet" should be able to do so. But they should also take a tip from motorcycle riders: drive like you're invisible. Because when a truck or an SUV comes along and can't see you, and your vehicle doesn't have the horsepower to keep up with the "big boys" you are going to be road kill. Smug road kill, but road kill nonetheless.
Kevin Compton| 6.16.11 @ 11:57AM
My primary vehicle is a '98 Gran Prix. My secondary vehicle is a '66 T-Bird. Just saying....
LMajito| 6.16.11 @ 11:21AM
wow melvin...certainly you're not suggesting that a buick lesabre is a cockroach car, are you? when in was in the military, 8 of us would climb into my lesabre and drive down the donout shop after pt in the morning...at the time i was 6'2"/185lbs and was one of the smaller ones...about the trailblazer, i own an envoy (gmc equivalent) and love it but wished i could stretch it some...agree about the 4.2 6...i have mine rigged to pump out 305 hp and it does get about 22 mpg on the highway with the a/c on...can't complain this type of performance out of a 5600lbs vehicle...
this is what happens to the smart cars when they hit something @ 35mph....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz-s1sIoLhU
this is what happens to a chevy trailblazer when they hit something at 35mph...
see that nice rebound of the smart car...nothing like flying through the air several feet...exactly what you want in a highway...
Big Leo| 6.16.11 @ 11:40AM
I live over a hundred miles from the nearest big town. A little car would wear me out making the trip, since I am disabled. My Caddy makes the trip effortless and pleasant. My DeVille gets 28 highway with a Northstar engine and my old Cherokee gets 20 with a V-6. My children's Kias (formerly) got around four mpg more highway than my Caddy. When my wife was hit by a stoplight running civic, she drove the Cherokee away from the accident. The driver of the Civic left by ambulance. The Civic was removed with a flat bed truck. I popped out the dents with my old body tools. Two of my children have had accidents in Kias. One hit a six inch high curb and demolished the car. The other was hit by a Plymouth wagon and spent three weeks in intensive care.
Now, run it past me again why I would want to drive a little bitty car.
Bill Sundling| 6.16.11 @ 12:00PM
It's dangerous to be on the same road with idiots in their SUVs. I drive a car. I don't like the idea of trucks having their bumpers as high as my face.
Kevin Compton| 6.16.11 @ 12:07PM
Well said.
Steve A| 6.16.11 @ 12:39PM
Here is the fundamental difference: I & my SUV / Lg. truck bretheren could frankly care less what the Kevins & Bill Sundlings of the world choose to risk their lives driving. Somehow though, it has become their business what I choose to transport my family in.
Big Leo| 6.16.11 @ 12:24PM
Sorry, Pal. No more Kias in my driveway. The hospital bills eat up the savings in gas.
George S| 6.16.11 @ 4:04PM
If those trucks are obeying the V&T laws, there is no danger. If not, it is a criminal matter, meaning it is the fault of the individual, and not the car. Problem with liberals is that they animate objects such as guns, SUV's and "the rich".
Old Soldier| 6.16.11 @ 12:25PM
I have a big SUV Crossover thingy so I fit the kids, wife, dog and our stuff. It's like piloting a land-barge.
As soon as they leave or I can afford a 3rd car, I will buy something small and fun again so I can go back to driving.
Bill Diebold| 6.16.11 @ 2:20PM
Mr Sundling,
If you don't like my bumper in your face or any other portion of my truck in your face..."Keep right pass left only" or more simply put, If you can't run with the pack, stay on the porch. You nor any gov loon has the authority to tell me what's appropriate for me to drive.
Conservative Bob| 6.16.11 @ 5:17PM
I drive a large 4 door Chevy pickup. If I am careful I get 15 mpg.
I bought this truck because you can fit 3 child car seats in the back seat and they when with me are mostly between 2 huge closed box frame rails.
In the late 70 I had a Toyota Tracel great mileage. In a low speed side impact crash my passenger wound up sitting in my lap as the side of the vehicle was pushed half way across the width of the car.
I will pay the extra gas to have the room comfort and protection for my grand kids.
My daughters first car was a restored 50 Chevy fleetline and my son's was a restored 48 Chevy pickup. The cars were selected for the same reason. They had enough iron in them, so that if they got in an argument with anything smaller than a tractor trailer rig they would win.
I don’t tell Smart Car and Prius drivers what to wear everyday neither should they tell me what to drive. And to those who comment on distracted drivers applying makeup texting etc. I find discourteous unsafe drives do not have a size model or brand preference by my experience.
Mike Hawk| 6.16.11 @ 8:52PM
Farding while driving is definately hazardous just as is texting, talking holding the cell phone to the ear, smoking and reading. It is especially eyeopening when a female driver in an SUV is doing a combination of these. Most guys don't. My SUV has a bumper sticker on the back (from The Federalist) That reads "Annoy a Liberal". It definately annoys Libs as much as my Blazer does. I also get a lot of 'thumbs up' and "I love your sticker". I don't fard in my vehicle either.
Big Leo| 6.16.11 @ 9:59PM
Last month, I saw a woman drinking coffee, conducting a telephone call, and fixing her makeup simultaneously while driving. It was a small car, not an SUV.
Why are you prejudiced against a car rather than a driver? I suggest it is selective vision.
Notary Sojac| 6.16.11 @ 6:49PM
I totally agree with the comments up-thread that no one should be "regulated out of " the vehicle they prefer.
However, it's not the Canyoneros that are being regulated off the market. On the contrary, the current demand for armor reinforcement and scores of airbags have made it impossible to buy the kind of lightweight, maneuverable car I prefer.
If I could buy a new equivalent to the Triumph TR3 or the '66 Corvair, I would begrudge no one their SUV.
The current mania for "crashworthiness" in a vehicle is just another sign of America's evolution into the first Nerf Civilization, where life itself is softly padded for our own good, and I'm surprised to see so many conservatives wholeheartedly on board.
Big Leo| 6.16.11 @ 7:23PM
I don't like the idiotic standards the government passes either. However, just as I was not tempted by Renault dauphines when I bought my first Caddy in 1966, nor by the Plymouth Miser when I bought my second Caddy in 1982, nor by the Smart Car when I bought my third Caddy in 2010. Those three cars each succeeded the other.
Somehow, I never thought that driving a car that if you hit a dog, you lost, was a good idea.
Conservative Bob| 6.16.11 @ 9:13PM
Not into Nerf Civ... I just prefer my big vehicles. Comfort cargo and and advantage in a crash... Although I would gladly go for the TR3 mentioned above.
Fairbanks99| 6.16.11 @ 7:45PM
http://www.iihs.org/externalda.....sr4605.pdf
The Insurance Institute periodically comes out with a status report on real world fatality rates. This is not crash testing, but performance of vehicles in real crashes. There is a rough correlation between this report and crash testing, but not always. I trust real world stats more than a lab. For example, the previous model Audi A6 (98-04) did poorly on all lab crash testing, both in the US and Europe. Yet in the IIHS status report, it did a very good job of protecting its occupants.
I used the Status Report four years ago when I was reseaching a vehicle purchase, and bought a 2001 Mercedes ML as a result. I have yet to be in an accident with it - well, I did have to hit the brakes hard on the Tacoma Narrow bridge once, and the Brake Assist kept me out of a rear end - but I do feel safe when I am in this SUV.
If green idiots wish to risk their lives for "the planet", let them. Just don't tell me what to drive.
Paul Milenkovic| 6.16.11 @ 9:54PM
You all heard the old saying that the most critical item affecting safety is "the nut behind the wheel."
Take a look at those IIHS "real world" stats. Many cars come out better than SUV's and especially pickup trucks.
Now use your imagination regarding the demographics behind some of the different cars. Some of the worst cars are small, fun-to-drive cars likely to be operated by youthful motorists. You can pretty much predict the safety record of any car by imagining who would be driving that kind of car.
One of the best "real world" cars is the Toyota Camry, not a particular standout in the crash tests, but when is the last time you saw a Camry tricked out with low profile tires, clear brakelight lenses, and one of those fat exhaust pipes?
Big Leo| 6.16.11 @ 9:57PM
I've never been involved in an accident, but several of my family members have been. When you're hit by a drunk, t boned by someone running a light, or hit by an illegal, it really doesn't matter how good a driver you are. That's why I drive a reasonably large car. That's also why my formerly small car driving children do the same, for reasons previously noted in this thread.
Notary Sojac| 6.17.11 @ 8:32AM
True, but then again wasn't it the Camry which was subject to sudden "unexpected acceleration" incidents in which it eventually turned out that the gas pedal had been hit instead of the brake?
I suspect a demographic component there as well.
T shirts | 6.16.11 @ 10:12PM
It must be wonderful to enter the colorful summer with nice T shirts
See the variety selections on our store!
Richard Baker| 6.16.11 @ 10:50PM
The physics of it all are immutable. If the small car owners don't like it then so what! In America it seems we as if we are focused on surviving the crash instead of avoiding it. For this I blame the timidity of driver's education.
weddingdresses | 6.17.11 @ 5:31AM
The physics of it all are immutable. If the small car owners don't like it then so what! In America it seems we as if we are focused on surviving the crash instead of avoiding it. For this I blame the timidity of driver's education.
Big Java| 6.17.11 @ 7:59AM
I guess now is the time to quit cowering in my little 4X4 Tundra. I was so sccccared...
NoGoBlue| 6.17.11 @ 11:35AM
As a former crash safety engineer I can tell you that the rule is "Mass saves your ass."
Wes in MT| 6.17.11 @ 3:48PM
Agree with NoGoBlue, my friend the fireman, who responds to many an accident has always said that in a crash, the one with the most lugnuts wins.
His family rides in a Denali XL.
Beyond that, there are far more cup holders in a big rig and the sound systems are better. . . aw, heck, small cars blow.
wolfveryne| 6.19.11 @ 8:11PM
What is the Freakin Government ,, involved in the manurfracting process of Any private Company,, in the First place ??,, if these Boozos ,, want Built , a 3 wheeled, bonziie, Voltmoped/98.6mpg,, run on ethanhol subsidies ,, let them use their Own Money, start a Company, build the damn thing, and try to Sell it to their Eco-Fool customers ,, but ,, don't make me but the damn thing !
Gerard | 9.13.11 @ 9:56PM
The Mini Cooper might as well count as a crossover as well, thanks to BMW turning it into an SUV.