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The Game Continues
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The Obama Watch
A Borderline Case
The most appalling foreign policy betrayal in the history of the U.S. Presidency.
The question one asks oneself, upon listening to President Barack Obama’s Middle East speech yesterday, is almost impertinent, certainly surprising given the expectations that preceded it: Where has the man been for the past six months?
Here is the leader of the United States, the most powerful country on earth and its last, best hope for freedom, and he is telling us — and the world — that finally, at last, under his guidance, we have found the right policy for the Middle East:
A billion dollars. 1967 borders.
The American politician’s habit of throwing money at problems meets the Arab terrorist’s habit of denying his opponent’s right to live. President Obama’s specific policy proposals are these: “…
[W]e have asked the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund to present a plan at next week’s G-8 summit for what needs to be done to stabilize and modernize the economies of Tunisia and Egypt.… [W]e must help them recover from the disruption of their democratic upheaval… [W]e do not want a democratic Egypt to be saddled by the debts of its past. So we will relieve a democratic Egypt of $1 billion in debt, and… [guarantee] $1 billion in borrowing… to finance infrastructure and job creation.
This sounds like business as usual. This, and the promised aid to promote trade instead of aid, to encourage investment and entrepreneurship, is what we have been doing for decades: removing the responsibility for taking charge of their own destinies from the peoples concerned in these regions, by promising guarantees and subsidies.
The people who took to the streets in Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen, and elsewhere may or may not have represented some kind of critical mass in these countries. We really do not know. President Obama compares them to the Boston patriots and the civil rights movement activists, like Rosa Parks. No doubt many of them are what the Europeans call liberals, people committed to the free competition of ideas in the political market place. That is what our liberals, in that sense, from colonial Boston to Jim Crow Birmingham, demanded: freedom, and the structure of free institutions — democratic representation, civil and political rights for all — that makes the exercise of freedom meaningful.
But just reminding ourselves of the abstract meaning of political freedom and civil liberty shows how little we really know about what has been going on in the Arab Revolt. Tunisians and Egyptians regurgitated the symbols of humiliation and scorn under which they felt oppressed, namely, the rai, or leader, who had grown old and corrupt and heedless. Zine Ben Ali, Hosni Mubarak, were despised and hated — at least by the modernizing, urban classes — because they showed so brazenly how they despised their own countrymen.
Whatever else this means, it is not the same thing as clearly understanding, as our ancestors did, that their political rights as Englishmen were denied, that their civil rights as Americans were flouted. And there is something else: neither in the 18th nor in the 20th century did Americans demand a reward because they fought for freedom: it was its own reward, and they knew they would make of it what they, themselves, were capable of. Far from expecting a subsidy from France, or any other power, the young Republic announced it would pay the debts incurred during the Revolution years and the Confederation period.
Freedom, my friends, ain’t free.
But here is our president telling them right off the bat, before he even knows who is in charge or what their plans are, that we are going to pay for the damage. Frankly this strikes me as just another example of brushing the problems under the carpet — a carpet provided by American taxpayers. If, as the president said in his speech, the region is full of human potential — well-educated (if unemployed) young people; a full half of the population, the women, left out of the economy instead of contributing to it and to the political liberalization that inevitably will accompany their economic empowerment, and so on and so forth — then why in the world do they need us to pay for their progress?
The president pointed out, quite accurately, that the region is rich, not wealthy: that is to say, it has oil riches, but produces nothing anyone wants (“exports on the level of Switzerland,” he said, which is giving them too much credit). Of course not: the Arab economies are confiscated: “pockets of wealth” as the president put it, is much too nice; what they have is mafias. Instead of telling them all the nice gifts we are preparing for them, whether in export subsidies or anything else, we should be telling them to finish their revolts by liberating their potential to produce goods worth exporting, beyond the hydrocarbons that happen to be under their soil.
The president is quite right to note, as he in effect did, that keeping armies in Mesopotamia and Afghanistan is not a winning proposition for us and we must draw down. We need to keep fighting the barbarians in these regions, and it may be that we will be doing this for years to come — a new form of containment, in effect, more mobile, adaptable, innovative than the one that stared down the Soviet divisions in central Europe for 50 years. Perhaps it was diplomatically impossible for him to say that we cannot take responsibility for the failures of local politicians and we will not countenance their taking us for all they can.
By not saying this, however, President Obama undercuts his own unreal, or at least unproven, vision of a “new” Middle East led by people worthy of comparison with Thomas Paine and Rosa Parks. He undercuts it further by giving the Israel-Palestinian conflict exactly the pride of place that it always has had in the “old” Middle East. While making the obligatory rhetorical gestures toward Israel’s security and its ties to the U.S., he turned the canard of the “1967 borders” into official American policy.
No president, not even Jimmy Carter, ever did this so explicitly, and for a reason. Two reasons, actually: first, there are no “1967 borders,” only armistice lines that were drawn due to Arab efforts to exterminate every Israeli; and, second, referring to them is to concede the Arab (not just Palestinian) argument against the legitimacy of Israel, because it has always been understood in this region that going back to “1967” is the first step, and only the first step, toward going back to 1947, the British Mandate, no Israel at all.
About the Author
Roger Kaplan, a Washington-based writer, covers the Middle East and Africa (and tennis) for The American Spectator.
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Mattled| 5.20.11 @ 6:27AM
What an embarrASSment. He has yet again proved he is the best, most qualified, most eloquent, best at his job ---evah---community organizer.
What a joke. I hope you liberals are proud. You put up your best, your smartest, your Jesus, Joseph, Moses, Superman, Lincoln, Reagan, Sun Tzu, Kennedy, Capt Sullenberger, -----and you still end up with Brock Sotero, Community Organizer.
Open up your wallets and give give give to re-elect this great half white hope. Then watch him take your money and not run because he already realizes there is wwaaaaayyyyyy too much cashola in post-prez to sit around and get humiliated for another 4 years.
Just ask Al Gwhore and Bill Cliton.
Craig Smith| 5.20.11 @ 6:55AM
I wish they'd stop calling him "President". He's nothing but a typical left wing idiot. Who'd have thought someone could make bill klowntoon look good.
ENOUGH ROPE| 5.20.11 @ 6:55AM
Obama proves that he is a Marxist in favor of totalitarians, and he is more and more a visible supporter of radical Islam. Obama has lied and will continue to lie about his real agenda as a stooge for the radical leftists in this country.
Pray that Herman Cain becomes the Republican candidate for POTUS.
Mimi| 5.20.11 @ 10:11AM
It is NOW coming out (GLENN BECK) that the birth of the new Israel policy about 1967 borders came from the ENEMY himself to AMERICA ....George Soros..code-pink and the LIKE! Figures!!! I just hope that this is the undoing of OBAMA!!!
Timothy L. Pennell| 5.20.11 @ 8:36AM
To all of my USEFUL IDIOT, Jewish "Older Cousins", I say: What did you THINK he was gonna do?
Born to a Muslim/Marxist Father and an Atheist/Communist Mother. Raised in Muslim Indonesia, til the age of 11. Attended MUSLIM SCHOOLS. At Muslim Schools they ;teach': "Look out! There's a JEW behind that rock! KILL HIM! He attended MOSQUE. "Death to America! Death to Israel! He knelt on his Prayer Rug, facing Mecca, and prayed to a Muslim God of MURDER, RAPE, MUTILATION and CRUELTY, 5 times a day.
He sat in the Pews of a Vicious RACIST, ANTI-SEMITE, for 20 Years. Had him perform his Marriage. Had him Baptize his children in to his Church of HATE. He attended the JEW HATING, Louis Farrakhan's Rallies. His wife is FRIENDS with the JEW HATING, Louis Farrakhan's wife. He started his Political Career, in the living room of Domestic Terrorists, and well known JEW HATERS - Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn. They have already tried to get one "Aid Boat" past the Israeli Blockade, and are readying another. Skip Gates. The Black Panthers. PLO Recruiter Khalid Rashidi. The L.A. Times is still REFUSING to release the VIDOE, that they have, of Barack Hussein Obama, at his good friend, Khalid the Jew Killer's Going Away Party. I wonder why they won't release it? Don't you?
And, of course, who can forget, the Piasse de Resistance?
If you'd like, you can go to the Official Web Site of HAMAS, and purchase for yourself, a Drinking Mug, emblazoned with the face of ABU HUSSAIN. aka Barack Hussein Obama aka Barry Soetoro.
HAMAS believes that Obama has been sent by Allah to DESTROY THE JEWS. They have given him the name: ABU HUSSAIN. His picture on the Mugs, has him in an ARAB Hat, with the Traditional Checkered Dish Rag around his neck.
THEY BELIEVE that he is the DELIVORER!
And with his SPEECH, yesterday, they just might be on to something.
simon templar| 5.20.11 @ 10:12AM
Yes, my friend, it is time for the Jewish community in America to open its eyes and revaluate just who is their friend and who is their enemy. Conservative Americans welcome you and will stand with you.
Michael Tomlinson| 5.20.11 @ 10:16AM
Well said Simon.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 10:59AM
This Jew was aware, and aware early, as was NavyBrat. Unfortunately, most of my co-religionists are Liberal (in the States).
Obama is a scumbag.
Ned| 5.20.11 @ 2:29PM
how disrespectful to scumbags...
RAMIII| 5.20.11 @ 4:07PM
Hahahahaha!
btw the recent Middle East uprisings/revolts remind me of the French Revolution and the "reign of terror" started by Robespierre of the late 1700's.
"Robespierre was frustrated with the progress of the revolution. After issuing threats to the National Convention, he himself was arrested in July 1794. He tried to shoot himslef but missed, and spent his last few hours with his jaw hanging off. He was guillotined, as a victim of the terror, on July 28, 1794"
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:15PM
True, it is disrespectful to scumbags. Suggestions for a more accurate sobriquet?
A.C.Guard| 5.20.11 @ 4:27PM
Although I hope I am wrong, I would bet that liberal American Jews will still give their time, money and vote to Obama in 2012. Like most blacks they also seem incapable of leaving the Democratic party. What a shame for both.
Patrick| 5.20.11 @ 9:58PM
A liberal ______ is a liberal first and foremost, even up to the moment said liberal is ordered to get in the truck by other liberals.
Purpleguy| 5.20.11 @ 5:17PM
Oh, please - the center and left in Israel itself espouses similar ideas toward the final peace with the palestinians. This is not a radical proposal - it is NOT hard-line, that's true, but Netanyahu has that covered all by himself.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:15PM
The Left in Israel is truly deranged.
ted| 5.23.11 @ 12:23AM
I wish more people could see it like this but iam afraid they are still asleep Great Perspective and keep at it maybe the people will wake up in time.
Alan Brooks| 5.20.11 @ 10:12PM
"and its last, best hope for freedom"
The festering border with violent Mexico is a greater threat to America than al Qaeda or any other enemy. So perhaps Canada is the last, best hope for freedom, as they border a first world nation (at this time) not a third world narco-cesspool.
As Matt Hooper said to the mayor in Jaws:
"I know you are going to ignore this particular problem until it bites you in the a**!"
And you will-- because you don't know what to do.
The Big E| 5.21.11 @ 12:48PM
Alan, you have no idea how much it pains me to say this, but it's entirely possible that you might be correct.
old white guy| 5.27.11 @ 3:56PM
ok. so when are the people going to do something about it????
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 5.20.11 @ 6:34AM
President Obama doesn't do anything out of mutual respect.
Mutual respect requires honesty.
President Obama peddles shared misery and hate.
The speech signifies that he thinks he doesn't need the Jewish vote to win, or he thinks Jews are too dumb to see what he's doing with this policy.
His incompetent handling of the economy may have doomed him anyway, but this won't help.
SpiralArchitect| 5.20.11 @ 12:31PM
On the money, Bill.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:17PM
Most Jews may be too dumb to see what he's doing, but I had him pegged early on.
I make my living calming down violent psychotics.
Darin| 5.20.11 @ 6:46AM
By saying Israel to use the 1967 borders is saying, in no uncertain terms, Israel does not have the right to defend itself. Israel was attacked by surrounding Arab countries in 1967. Israel won, and as is an internationally recognized practice, kept a portion of the land for itself.
Most don't know this, but when the nation of Israel was formed by the UN in 1948, the same offer was made to form a nation of Palestine. It was refused for the simple reason that the Palestinians did not want a nation - they want Israel destroyed. Such is still in the Hamas charter. Mindless hatred like that cannot be bargained with or reasoned with. It must simply be dealt with. Israel did so in 1967. The Jew-hating UN and Obama are no friend of Israel.
Intelligent Design| 5.20.11 @ 7:13AM
"Palestinian" Muslims and their related terrorist organizations have one goal, which is the death of Israel. Obama is supporting their cause by calling for the shrinkage of Israel to its pre-1967 borders. Israel should not give up an inch. Every time it has made concessions, the Muslims have increased their attacks. They have launched thousands of rockets and mortars into Israel, attempting to realize Hitler's goal. The demise of Israel would be a blow to freedom everywhere in the world, for all of us, as if Hitler had won WW II, or as if Islam governed the United States. Well, the enemy won't succeed, despite some help from Obama. He's a flash in the pan of history.
Michael Tomlinson| 5.20.11 @ 10:15AM
A suggested Obama campaign slogan that would pass muxter with the NY Times editorial page. "Hitler was Right About Deficit Spending & the Jews"
Fredrick Ward| 5.20.11 @ 11:57AM
You need not worry about Israel being defeated. It will not happen. Her enemies, and so-called friends, do not know the strength they mess with.
SpiralArchitect| 5.20.11 @ 12:36PM
The irony of the David & Goliath story...
RAMIII| 5.20.11 @ 5:40PM
HEAR! HEAR! YHWH will come to her defense! Do not doubt this!!
Patrick| 5.20.11 @ 10:11PM
If only you were right. Tell me, what Strength would that be? What is the fate of Israel when she relied upon the horses of Egypt? No, the secular state that calls itself Israel does not pass muster.
I would perhaps entertain such an opinion had the "Dome of the Rock" mosque been toppled and replaced with a Jewish Temple. Such is not the case, since Israel is a secular, nationalist state.
No, there will be another Shoah, and many wonderful and good people will die and many wonderful and good things will be destroyed, all while murderous barbarians cheer in their squalor.
Purpleguy| 5.20.11 @ 5:20PM
It's neither Jew-hating in the UN or by Obama, who is a friend of Israel, as are all Americans - right and left. This is a non-issue, except for 2 men that don't like each other. Bush made similar proposals in 2004 - where were you all screaming then? hmmm?
Joe Hamilton| 5.20.11 @ 7:20PM
Obama is a "friend" of Israel? Was Hitler a friend of the Jews? Whatever you're smoking is damaging your brain.
Purpleguy| 5.20.11 @ 8:10PM
Oh, that's a rebuttal? Not a single fact to counter with - but then that's Fixed News for you ... go back to your right-wing echo chamber until you really learn something.
Since Obama, Clinton and Bush policies for peace are very similar - are you saying the last 3 American Presidents have been anti-Israel? Really?
The Big E| 5.21.11 @ 12:50PM
Since when is it necessary to use facts to counteract pure fantasy?
Purpleguy| 5.21.11 @ 3:20PM
Once again, you cannot face reality or facts. Livin' in your old little dream world - talk about fantasy. Guess you know all about that. No comment about the last 3 Presidents peace plans? Really? Do you even know what you're talking about?
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:18PM
Purple:
Clint is no friend of Israel; neither is Jack in Wi.
Red Phillips ain't no pal, either, though he's smoother than the above named.
Obama comes from a well-established group of folks who despise Israel.
Purpleguy| 5.21.11 @ 11:20PM
And, who would those "folks" be?
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 11:55PM
Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright, for starters. Khalidi, for seconds.
Clint| 5.22.11 @ 10:30AM
We're Americans, Neo-Chickenhawk Fanatic Israel Firster Propaganda Coward Tool Job.
Got A Problem With That Israel Firster Fanatic Smear Merchant Tool Job ?
You're Up Troll.
ENOUGH ROPE| 5.20.11 @ 6:52AM
Obama proves that he is a Marxist in favor of totalitarians, and he is more and more a visible supporter of radical Islam. Obama has lied and will continue to lie about his real agenda as a stooge for the radical leftists in this country.
Pray that Herman Cain becomes the Republican candidate for POTUS.
Purpleguy| 5.21.11 @ 11:20PM
yeah, let's have a mobster as president. sure.
Star Tripper| 5.22.11 @ 9:06PM
"...let's have a mobster as president."?? We do now.
Dee See| 5.20.11 @ 6:52AM
---Great piece!
ELSEWHERE
"We are using MASSIVE third world
(largely muslim) immigration to destroy
British culture once and for all ---FOREVER."
-TONY BLAIR
Former PM and Globalist 'fave'
(Daily Mail cited by Alan Watt online)
"By the way folks, England is gone,
there's only 'Britain'. It's been that way
for many decades now. --That's Globalism
at work for you---"
-ALAN WATT
(essential and heroic online coverage)
Of course Bush Sr., Clinton, Bush Jr. and
Obama, fronts one and all ---are one and all
'on board'.
And AS goes England -----so goes --guess who???
Jack in Wi.| 5.20.11 @ 6:56AM
The Israeli Newspaper Haaretz rports that Netanyahu has had a huge success with Obama's speech. I don't know why you are upset? The vast majority of Jews voted for Obama and gave him huge amounts of campaign cash. They are many of his key advisors. This is just American domestic politics where Obama is sewing up his leftwing base. It is all a kabuki show for the boobs. Obama has always been an asset for Israel. Netanyahu comes to America in a few days. The ADL says they are for what Obama says. Obama appears before AIPAC on Sunday. Netanyahu addresses congress next week. The Palistinians are marching on the border today after the mosques let out. Maybe that evangelical is right. the world starts to end tommorow.
Poppakap| 5.20.11 @ 9:55AM
Jack,
Your interpretation of Haaretz' (a leftwing rag) article is so far off the mark as to be laughable. Netanyahu had had huge success with Obama's speech? First of all, your statement is meaningless, although it is typical liberal blather. Secondly, Netanyahu has thoroughly rejected Obummer's speech and criticized its central thesis (Israel giving up land back to the so-called 1967 borders) as indefensible.
When and where did the ADL publicly communicate support for returning to the 1967 armistice lines? As though the ADL was some nebulous organization with only one opinion (again, typical liberal jibberish). Furthermore, the ADL's opinion is largely meaningless in this discussion. They are not a representative of the Israeli government, nor do they represent the feelings of the majority of Israel's citizens.
Finally, an indefensibly high number of the Jews in America that voted for Obummer are of the self-loathing type. They are Jewish in descent, but they have little in common with the values of the Jewish state. They show up at Israel Apartheid Week rallies at universities and march as partners with Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood/MSA. They are guided by leftist ideology first and foremost. The very existence of the state of Israel is a crime to many of them, so their opinions bear very little weight when it comes to discussions about current policy of the state of Israel, let alone whether Israel should continue the suicidal land for peace fantasy.
Jack in Wi.| 5.20.11 @ 10:01AM
There are lot of sane Jews that want nothing to do with the way Palistinians are treated in Israel. Most Jews are not radical zionists that support what the crackpots on the West Bank are doing. None of this is America's business. It is time to keep our money here and bring home all the troops. Let the world run itself. We can't even run this country anymore.
simon templar| 5.20.11 @ 10:28AM
Troll! Jack the commie rat, jew hater needs to stay in Wisconsin.
Jack in Wi.| 5.20.11 @ 4:39PM
I am no troll. I voted for every Republican presidential candidate since Barry Goldwater. I also was a financial supporter and subscriber to this magazine and National Review for decades. In the case of Nationals Review 42 years. I have 2 pictures of myself with GHW Bush and his wife Babs. I also have pictures of myself and Dan Quale, WF Buckley, Michael Medved, Thommy Thompson, and Oliver North. I went to Reagan's innaugeration in 1985 and Bush's in 1989. When you lost me you lost a lot of other people. There is no way we are voting for another pro-Israel Wamonger. Let Obama sink the country instead of fools like Romney, Gingrich, Daniels, or Pawlenty.
beebop| 5.20.11 @ 10:12PM
bull. all of it. bull. I could make any claims I like and far be it from you to prove or disprove my case. bull.
Controse| 5.21.11 @ 1:38AM
Like the cartoon says "on the internet no one knows your a dog." " Let Obama sink the country." What a patriot you are.
The Big E| 5.20.11 @ 10:30AM
The reality (whether you want to acknowledge it or not), is that Israel is a nuclear power. It is also a reality that there are three reasons why there has not been total war in the ME involving Israel in the last 40 years; (1) our military support for Israel, (2) Israeli nuclear weapons poised against non-nuclear neighbors, and (3) the Israeli-Egyptian peace accord.
Mubarak, for all his faults, kept the Israeli-Egyptian peace accord. Obama threw that under the bus earlier this year. Iran is developing nukes to counter Israel's and Obama is doing - oh that's right - NOTHING about it. Now, with this speech, he is reversing years of American foreign policy and calling into question our military support of Israel.
FACT: Regardless of who's right and who's wrong in Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Obama's speech yesterday has taken the world one (or possibly even several) steps closer to nuclear war in a region upon which a shocking amount of the world's economy depends.
And you think that's a good thing?
SpiralArchitect| 5.20.11 @ 12:41PM
The Imadinnerjacket let nation of Iran has paid cash for the first round of the construction of a missle base in Venezuela.
From what I have heard their missle tech is still pretty haphazzard. Yet this base is in range of the US & obviously the local nations.
The Big E| 5.21.11 @ 12:54PM
Iranian missiles in the middle east, potentially sparking a nuclear war there, is actually (in my opinion) a more serious threat to us than Iranian missiles in Venezuela. Nuclear war in ME could shut off the flow of oil entirely, which would, obviously, have effects on the world economy so severe that the word "devastating" doesn't begin to describe it.
WilliamR| 5.20.11 @ 10:45AM
Most Jews in this country recognize that without a two state solution Israel will become an apartheid country. Demographics are not in Israels favor.
simon templar| 5.20.11 @ 11:08AM
When you stop lying and distorting, you can post here. Otherwise, shut the hell up. That two sentence post was packed with such lies and misrepresentation of historical fact, you really should be congratulated for your propaganda skills.
WilliamR| 5.20.11 @ 5:35PM
Shut up punk. You don't know what you're talking about.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/nov/30/israel
http://www.economist.com/blogs....._apartheid
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:47PM
Both Guardian and The Economist, like the CSM, are well known for a strong anti-Israel bias.
Purpleguy| 5.20.11 @ 6:30PM
He's right, and you, sir, are an uneducated Kool-Aid drinking troglodyte ... enjoy grunting with your fellow trogs.
WilliamR| 5.20.11 @ 6:53PM
You can't refute anything. Jews will become a minority in their own country without a two state solution.
The Big E| 5.21.11 @ 12:59PM
First of all, Jews in this Country do not run the State of Israel. Their opinion on the "two state solution," is irrelevant.
Secondly, and make no mistake about this, the Palestinian goal is NOT a two state solution. The Palestinian goal is a ONE state solution - and that state being Palestine (which, by the way, is a "state" which has never previously existed). The Palestinian goal, and their negotiating position, is Genocide.
Until you recognize that reality, you will be, quite frankly, clueless about the true nature of the situation.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 11:01AM
Jack, I know you loved the dancers on 9/11, but I didn't, you Nazi punk.
Drunken Sailor| 5.20.11 @ 11:57AM
OT,
Jack is another adamant Paul supporter. Enough said?
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:21PM
'Nuff said. Thanks, DS. I think you are wrong about your name, though---you are more like Jackie Chan's The Drunken Master.
WilliamR| 5.20.11 @ 5:36PM
You're a punk kid.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:48PM
Which one of us, knuckle dragger?
Michael Tomlinson| 5.20.11 @ 10:11AM
Good post Pop.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 11:01AM
Thank you, Pop.
Mike D.| 5.20.11 @ 11:13AM
What always amazed me was the worship of Socialism and leftism by Jews. Jews have have been on the brutal end of collectivist and brutal regimes, monarchies, dictatorships throughout history and yet most Jews seem to ally themselves with the very styles of government that have brought them the most death and grief. You would think that most jews would be anti-big government by DNA in their physical makeup by now. I honestly would like an answer to this question by those of the readers who are Jewish and anti-big government and pro-freedom. Marx and Trotsky were both Communists and Jewish and I don't see how that reconciles with their faith.
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 7:36PM
Marx and Trotsky were not religious Jews, but athiests.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:23PM
It is a mistake to think we are rational beings. We are rationalizing beings with our ids barely covered.
The current PM of Israel is pro-capitalism and against huge Government regulation. Under his administration, Israel leads the world in start up companies per capita.
Appleby| 5.20.11 @ 6:59AM
Mark 13:14: "When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation' standing where it does not belong--let the reader understand--then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Darin| 5.20.11 @ 10:26AM
"The abomination that causes desolation" is refering to the Antichrist setting himself up as god in the temple.
A better reference might be the signing of the 7 year peace treaty with Israel. Could that be getting close?
Shelly H| 5.20.11 @ 12:01PM
Yes, the 7-year peace treaty is what I keep looking for. We know according to biblical prophecy what will happen after that.
Impeach Don't Wait| 5.20.11 @ 5:02PM
So now we have it. Obama's "deal" with the Muslims: You give me Osama, I give you Israel.... If that's so, then as much as I hate to admit it, in a sense the man may be a genius. In any case, if he succeeds in disempowering Israel, it will indeed take a treaty to save them--and I now wouldn't rule out the possibility that he will be the only man trusted enough by the Muslims to do it. Create the crisis. Be the one to "solve" it. Gotta love it.
Only the American people can stop this. Democrats need to heed this and beware their culpability at the ballot box.
Incredible...
carnot| 5.20.11 @ 7:06AM
he has no plan.
R Martin| 5.20.11 @ 7:21AM
Obama claims he sat in Jeremiah Wright's church for 20 years without hearing his minister's vile rhetoric. It's pretty clear he heard the anti semitic part.
KyMouse| 5.20.11 @ 7:32AM
If Gaza and the West Bank, with East Jerusalem as their capital, are to become the nation of Palestine (which is the plan I hear talked about the most), then more chunks of Israel must be given away in order to make those areas contiguous.
A swath of Israel given away to link Gaza and the West Bank would cut Israel in half -- and lose some of its most productive land to boot. Divide and conquer, indeed.
As for the Golan Heights, anyone who has visited Israel knows how easy it would be (and how easy it used to be) for one or more of Israel's enemies to hide on the hillside and shoot at Jewish fishermen (and tourists). Cities such as Tiberius would be easy targets for larger weapons. Israel must never give up the Golan Heights! Or so much as any other square inch of land.
When Israel was attacked by its Arab neighbors in 1967, Israel rightfully seized the lands from which the attacks came. Throughout history, that has been the right of any nation that is attacked. The Arabs are cheesed off because they haven't been able to get that land back by force; but now, with Obama on their side, they're giving diplomacy another whack at it -- through the "piece by piece" plan.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 11:02AM
KyMouse,
you are a credit to your State, and a major reason why the Lord has not turned it to salt.
martin j smith| 5.20.11 @ 7:41AM
Guess what this speech was REALLY ALL ABOUT ?
Answer: Obama and nothing or no one lese.
A distraction from the ECONOMY
MAKING HIM LOOK IMPORTANT
MAKING HIM LOOK PRESIDENTIAL
MAKIUNG HIM LOOK POWERFUL
But, this is important. The more people criticize and analyze Obama's speech the better. The more NEGATIVE REVIEW THE BETTER. The more he is laughed at and make to look stupid the better
and the more he is made to look the CARTOON DICTATOR that he shows himself to be the better.
Finally it is a campaign issue--not Israel by itself but OBAMA'S INCOMPETENCE AND FOOLISHNESS. That is the opportunity that this speech presents. The real Presidential candidate will make use of Obama's stupidity in the fight for the Republican nomination. Those who fail to join the fray are or should be OUT.
Prester John| 5.20.11 @ 8:01AM
I was 11 years old in the spring of 1967 and can still remember reading Arab leaders calling for Israel to go up in flames.
Israel needs to tell BHO to go to a very hot place.
Jack in Wi.| 5.20.11 @ 10:03AM
I was 24 years old in 1967. All I remember in the Liberty and how it was attacked, by a criminal enterprise, that has never been brought to justice.
Michael Tomlinson| 5.20.11 @ 10:20AM
The real threat to the US and West is Islam. Time to accept this is a crusade for survival.
As for the billion dollars he wants to give to the Muslim Brotherhood Congress needs to say, "HELL NO!"
Teaghan| 5.20.11 @ 12:00PM
Good thought Michael. And how do we give millions to these violent dirtbags when we are broke?
Frisbee| 5.20.11 @ 8:37PM
Why 1967? Why not 1973, and give the Negev back to Israel? Israel gave the Negev back to Egypt under Anwar Sadat.
RCV| 5.21.11 @ 8:50PM
No, Israel returned the Sinai to Egypt. The Negev is in southern Israel.
dc| 5.20.11 @ 10:51AM
Err, Jack, lay off the cheap swill beer first thing in the morning. You don't have to love Israel, "zionists," or even be a Jew (or even like Jews) to be clear-eyed about who the enemies of this country are, and who might be willing to stand with us against those enemies. Dear Leader Hussein is doing everything possible to empower our enemies, urinate publicly on and substantively undermine our (former) allies, and in so doing, reduce the ability of this country to defend itself. His dirtbag African marxist dead "father" must be very proud of his little bastard.
One other thought, from the excellent National Review "Campaign Spot" blog--ask yourself, whose side should a United States President be on? Whose side are you on?
Moe Lane was particularly livid over Obama’s seemingly moral equivalency: “One side (Israel) is a functional, prosperous, and legitimate democratic republic which also happened to be (prior to you) an ally; the other (the PA) is run by terrorists who cheer when their supporters sneak into people’s homes and murder babies. I can tell the difference: I am disgusted, yet, unsurprised, that you cannot.”
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 11:19AM
Thanks, DC.
WilliamR| 5.20.11 @ 11:28AM
Loss of Liberty
http://video.google.com/videop.....114591367#
Jack in Wi.| 5.20.11 @ 4:45PM
I lived inthe most heavily Jewish community in Wi. for many years. The commissioner of Baseball Bud Selig also lived there. Most of my neighbors were liberal Jews. They may have been zionists but most were disgusted by the radicals on the West Bank. Those kind of people want a solution. They are sick of having to defend the indefensable.
Todd S| 5.20.11 @ 5:04PM
You and your liberal Jew friends are fools. Arafat showed very plainly the 2 state solution was a ruse yet jackasses like you and Obama want to pretend otherwise. Going back to the 1967 borders will just make it easier to stage an attack against Israel by the Islamonazis and fire in rockets as they like to do. You idiots want to keep backing Israel in a corner until nuclear war will be the only option. And who the hell cares that Bud Selig used to live in your neighborhood?
Bruce Berger| 5.22.11 @ 10:27PM
Jack,
That is easy for the Jews to say in the safety of Wisconsin.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 11:03AM
The pilot who lead the Liberty fiasco was the same incompetent clown who missed Osirak on the bombing raid.
Nice Jackboots, Jack.
Clint| 5.20.11 @ 12:36PM
The United States Naval Ship, The U.S.S. Liberty was deliberately attacked by several IAF aircraft, initially by two Mirage IIIs, employing cannon, rockets and bombs, followed by two Dassault Mysteres carrying napalm and torpedo boats.
The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 170 crew members.
Michael Tomlinson| 5.21.11 @ 12:42AM
On one day Muslims killed a thousand times that, but that doesn't seem to disturb you.
irish19| 5.21.11 @ 2:26AM
Actually, 100 times would be more accurate I think.
However, your point is very well taken.
Clint| 5.22.11 @ 10:34AM
As a Tea Party American Patriot, Both Bother Me Micky
Don't Both Bother You, Micky ?
You're Up Micky .
Joe Hamilton| 5.20.11 @ 7:30PM
All of you Jew haters never fail to bring up the Liberty. The Capt. was a fool to sail his ship into an active war zone. What's next? Blaming the Jews cause the the tsunamis in Japan?
irish19| 5.21.11 @ 2:27AM
Wait for it..........
Clint| 5.22.11 @ 10:37AM
You're An Israel Firster Traitor Bastard Slandering Liar, Punk Ass.
The U.S. Naval Ship, U.S.S. Liberty was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nmi (29.3 mi; 47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish.
WilliamR| 5.20.11 @ 10:49AM
Israel started the 1967 war when it attacked Egypt.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 11:04AM
No, there was an earlier casus belli. And Nasser was calling for Israel's extermination.
The 1967 borders, idiot, are a recipe for pre-emptive strikes.
WilliamR| 5.20.11 @ 11:22AM
"Yitzhak Rabin, former Chief of Staff and then Ambassador to the United States, said, “I do not believe that Nasser wanted war…The two divisions he sent into Sinai on May 14 would not have been enough to unleash an offensive against Israel. He knew it and we knew it.”
In a 1982 speech to the Israeli National Defense College, then-Prime Minister Menachem Begin said: “The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that [Egyptian President] Nasser was about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.”
Then of course Israel attacked an unarmed United States Navy ship the USS Liberty in international waters killing 34 sailors and wounding 171.
Jack in Wi.| 5.20.11 @ 4:48PM
Nobody was brought to justice for the attack on the USS Liberty. The survivers were lied to and lied about for decades. It is time for justice now. Bring all the survivers to the White House for an apology.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:26PM
Reparations were paid, and the Captain of the Liberty won the MOH. As I said before, the guy who lead the attack also was the only Israeli pilot to miss Osirak on that raid. Competent, he ain't.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:25PM
He had already given the Israelis a casus beli when he closed the Suez to international shipping.
JmsA| 5.20.11 @ 9:52PM
That's right. As I previously posted, Nasser sent the United Nations forces away and blockaded the Gulf of Aqaba, while telling anyone and everyone within earshot he would deny any free passage to Aqaba--a clear act of war against Israel.
As Israeli Army General Avraham Yoffe so eloquently stated: "This is one of the secrets in Israel--that every soldier, every driver, everyone, knows what is expected of him, and knows what is the danger. They know why they fight, and what for. " The Six Days War saved Israel, our only friend in an otherwise rotten neighborhood.
All I know is that both Moshe Dayan and Ebba Eban were done proud today. And that's good enough for me.
Aside the heartfelt and eloquently argument put forth by Mr. Netanyahu, I must ultimately admit I did not particularly enjoy watching the President of the United States being taken to task, no matter how much he did to make it happen.
JmsA| 5.20.11 @ 9:56PM
Apologies, meant to write: and eloquently put forth argument.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 7:15PM
Sorry, not Suez in '67---that was '56. '67 was the closing of the Straits of Tiran.
simon templar| 5.20.11 @ 11:18AM
Ok...I am going to make this real clear for you. I want you to know that filthy lie and incredible revision of history has really opened my eyes this morning and has brought me to the conclusion that I am living in a country with actual domestic enemies. Know this, and yes, it is a direct threat...no hot air here...I look forward to the day we meet on the battlfield and not on this lame ass blog.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 11:20AM
Let me know when you need your back covered, Simon.
Ken (Old Texican)| 5.20.11 @ 12:05PM
Is there room for three in ya'll's fox-hole?
VBMax| 5.20.11 @ 2:36PM
Count me in!
Pecos Pete| 5.21.11 @ 8:55AM
Me too.
Clint| 5.20.11 @ 12:42PM
If You Don't Support The Men of The U.S.S. Liberty, You're a Traitor Bastard.
Bring It, Mouth Fighter.
Ken (Old Texican)| 5.20.11 @ 5:03PM
Clint,
you keep bringing up that sad oopsie of friendly fire.
..........One in sixty years.
Sadly, we have killed lots more of Israeli soldiers, accidentally.
You hate Jews........We get it!
Thank you for your contributions with waaaaaaay too many adjectives for a sane person to use.
heh.
Clint| 5.20.11 @ 5:58PM
You're A Slandering Liar Kenny The Neo-Chickenhawk Squirrel.
Friendly Fire !
You're Insane Squirrel .
Do Your Homework.
Now, Tell Us Where United States Military Killed Israeli Troops.
You're Up Neo-Chickenhawk Coward.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:53PM
The US trained the Palestinian military that have killed hundreds of Israeli civilians for one, Clint. But I know you revel in the blood of Israeli babies, scumbag.
Clint| 5.22.11 @ 11:02AM
The U.S. Military Did Not Kill Israeli Troops, Traitor Bastard Israel Firster Propagandist Turncoat, Scumbag Suckin' Tool Job.
"The actual training of troops is the work of Jordanian Public Security Directorate police trainers who teach in Arabic. They are assisted by Mobile Training Teams, composed of US DynCorp Contractors.
The NSF battalions train at the Jordan International Police Training Center (JIPTC) outside of Amman, Jordan. According to Lt. Gen. Dayton, the rationale for choosing this location "is pretty simple. The Palestinians wanted to train in the region but they wanted to be away from clan, family, and political influences. The Israelis trust the Jordanians, and the Jordanians were anxious to help."
Cyborg| 5.22.11 @ 10:58PM
Clint,
Go suck the farts out of your isalam master's ass.
Bob Grant| 5.21.11 @ 9:07AM
"Thank you for your contributions with waaaaaaay too many adjectives for a sane person to use.
heh."...
...now that's rich coming from you. Spewed morning coffee on my 'puter after reading that one.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:27PM
I support the US Liberty sailors. I thought the Israeli pilot was an idiot. However, this is a job for grownups, not children. Blue on blue happens. How do you think Pat Tillman bought it?
Clint| 5.22.11 @ 10:43AM
You're A Slandering Liar Israel Firster Traitor Bastard Neo-Chickenhawk Propaganda Boy Tool Job.
There were multiple IDF attack aircraft.
The U.S. Naval Ship The U.S.S. Liberty was attacked by several IAF aircraft, initially by two Mirage IIIs, employing cannon, rockets and bombs, followed by two Dassault Mysteres carrying napalm and Israeli Torpedo boats.
Margie| 5.20.11 @ 9:56PM
I will be your lookout person, if you will be so pleased.
Drunken Sailor| 5.20.11 @ 12:14PM
Who stared that war?
The PLO through Fatah pursued a consistent policy of border attacks, particularly along the Jordanian and Lebanese borders. Criticism of these activities by the Arab governments and by local public opinion persuaded Fatah leaders to adopt a new approach known as “the entanglement theory.” This involved using sabotage to force Israel to adopt an offensive position, which in turn would force the Arabs to step up their military preparedness. This cycle of action-retaliation-reaction would lead to a gradual escalation of tension on the borders, and eventually to the Six Day War in 1967.
JmsA| 5.20.11 @ 9:31PM
Lest we forget that not only had the Egyptian armed forces been concentrating on the border, while Radio Cairo continued to spew venomous threats to wipe out Israel and massacre the Jews, but that Nasser blockaded and sent away the United Nations forces from the Gulf of Aqaba, all the while letting everyone know they would not allow any free passage to Aqaba--a clear act of war against Israel.
crookedwren| 5.20.11 @ 8:15AM
Sometimes I think I give Obama too much credit -- by thinking that he is simply one of those grad. student know-it-alls who got straight As but knows little about real life -- and he's just naive.
Or maybe he's that -- AND he's a product of his Marxist upbringing. His father, after all, from whom Obama claims he got his DREAMS, was a committed Marxist who was NOT an American citizen -- i.e. Obama Sr. owed ALLEGIANCE to another country (part of the actual argument coming from the so-called "birthers." An American President should have no tendencies toward divided allegiances, and this one grew up under two different names in two different countries, parented by citizens from two different countries/worlds -- but I digress) -- and Obama Sr. was just one in a line of Marxists and fellow travelers who raised and mentored him. Perhaps if I had been fed this garbage from birth at home, then was forcefed the same garbage at school (endless schooling -- Occidental, Columbia, Harvard -- Harvard and Columbia were two places deeply infiltrated long ago by Leninists and Fabian Socialists). Heard great rancor at J. Wright's antiSemitic, antiAmerican church. Then just kept hearing everyone else around me parrot this stuff in the media. Hadn't been exposed to people who knew much about reality and the consistent historical failures and tragedies brought about by a commitment to Socialism and Communism. Well, maybe it's just that naivete that spills such nonsense in these speeches. Does he really not understand that the so-called Palestinians do NOT want to live peacefully with Israel -- current or 1967 borders notwithstanding?
Does he really believe that the men who attacked the American journalist in Tahrir Square are "democracy" seekers, hungry for "universal human rights"?
Can he be that blind?
Or does this speech arise from an ideology that has stronger intent, real design, and a dark purpose?
Whatever it is that girds this speech -- and the tragic consequences of it -- it is dangerous beyond belief.
We MUST save ourselves, folks. Someone to defeat Obama, a stronger Speaker of the House, would be helpful. But we, like those who decided God and not King George and Parliament was the purveyor of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, must look to ourselves with the STAY of Divine Providence to solve our own problems.
The deus ex machina of a Chris Chirstie running for President might be HELPFUL, (please, sir, won't you run????) but we can't rely upon any single person to rescue us. That, as Mark Steyn pointed out, arises from a monarchical urge and is not consistent with the Constitutional Republic we lost somewhere along the way toward Obama Socialism.
Maxwell| 5.20.11 @ 8:59AM
Oh please! Chris Christie, the open borders, global warming (REGGIE here in Jersey), anti gun, for Obama health care, afraid of appointing a Conservative Judge Mike Carroll (caved after three days, afraid of the bar association), that RINO? Hay, in Jersey, opena can of Republican and out comes a Democrat. No thanks.
victor| 5.21.11 @ 3:28AM
Having voted for him as I voted for the previous republican guv'ner,
perhaps we should call him:
Christie Todd Christie, eh?
Or perhaps, Chris Whitman Christie?
Colin Foy| 5.21.11 @ 9:54PM
One name: Army LtC (Ret.) Allen West.
irish19| 5.23.11 @ 12:08AM
Eventually, definitely yes. But let's let him pull a full term in Congress first. zero bailed to start running after only two years in the Senate. And yet they call Palin a quitter......
West would definitely make a good POTUS. Just maybe not this cycle.
Larry| 5.20.11 @ 8:25AM
Honestly, is ANYONE surprised at this? My only shock is that Comrade Golfer didn't make such a statement earlier in his regime.
Doesn't the "devout Christian" know that his ahem, "Christian" roots are in Judaism?
Mimi| 5.20.11 @ 8:26AM
Arabs need to GIVE IT UP ! They have been trying to destroy Israel since before WW II.
What in darn-heck is OBAMA doing, on the eve of Netanyahu's speech to congress, sticking a knife in the HEART of Israel. You know what FOLKS....He over-stepped this time....He's calling upon all AMERICANS to BETRAY a long time friend and alli. Message to Israel...We condemn the actions and words of this MAN...We the people of AMERICA will support you...! I think a GRAVE ERROR was done by this president...nothing for any of us to be proud of!
Tim the Enchanter| 5.20.11 @ 11:27AM
Mimi... you should read Josephus's "The Jewish War" and "Antiquities". The hatred and fighting in that area of the world has been going on for THOUSANDS of years, not just since WWII
Mike D.| 5.20.11 @ 5:37PM
Tim,
The Babylonians and Assyrians didn't much like Hebrews either, nor Philistines. This has been going on for thousands of years. Good comments.
Anthony| 5.20.11 @ 8:32AM
Obozo to Israel: DROP DEAD
Chef Schnauzer| 5.20.11 @ 8:35AM
Thank you for your article. I am approaching the conclusion that Obama is destroying this country and our alliances on purpose. I am approaching the conclusion that he wants disunion and destruction. Reagan said it, Obama personifies it, "Government IS the enemy."
Timothy L. Pennell| 5.20.11 @ 8:36AM
• To all of my USEFUL IDIOT, Jewish "Older Cousins", I say: What did you THINK he was gonna do?
Born to a Muslim/Marxist Father and an Atheist/Communist Mother. Raised in Muslim Indonesia, til the age of 11. Attended MUSLIM SCHOOLS. At Muslim Schools they ;teach': "Look out! There's a JEW behind that rock! KILL HIM! He attended MOSQUE. "Death to America! Death to Israel! He knelt on his Prayer Rug, facing Mecca, and prayed to a Muslim God of MURDER, RAPE, MUTILATION and CRUELTY, 5 times a day.
He sat in the Pews of a Vicious RACIST, ANTI-SEMITE, for 20 Years. Had him perform his Marriage. Had him Baptize his children in to his Church of HATE. He attended the JEW HATING, Louis Farrakhan's Rallies. His wife is FRIENDS with the JEW HATING, Louis Farrakhan's wife. He started his Political Career, in the living room of Domestic Terrorists, and well known JEW HATERS - Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn. They have already tried to get one "Aid Boat" past the Israeli Blockade, and are readying another. Skip Gates. The Black Panthers. PLO Recruiter Khalid Rashidi. The L.A. Times is still REFUSING to release the VIDOE, that they have, of Barack Hussein Obama, at his good friend, Khalid the Jew Killer's Going Away Party. I wonder why they won't release it? Don't you?
And, of course, who can forget, the Piasse de Resistance?
If you'd like, you can go to the Official Web Site of HAMAS, and purchase for yourself, a Drinking Mug, emblazoned with the face of ABU HUSSAIN. aka Barack Hussein Obama aka Barry Soetoro.
HAMAS believes that Obama has been sent by Allah to DESTROY THE JEWS. They have given him the name: ABU HUSSAIN. His picture on the Mugs, has him in an ARAB Hat, with the Traditional Checkered Dish Rag around his neck.
THEY BELIEVE that he is the DELIVORER!
And with his SPEECH, yesterday, they just might be on to something.
Bob K.| 5.20.11 @ 9:45AM
Well Timothy,
This is about the 5th time today you have posted these somewhat incoherent thoughts on different articles and blogs.
When are you going to proof read them?
simon templar| 5.20.11 @ 10:34AM
Ah, we have a real life working troll. So, what is your report..finding out that Americans are pissed and are not rolling over? Just who appointed you, the internet's proof reader?
victor| 5.21.11 @ 3:31AM
Ah yes, it is Oberfuhrer Bob Krankenhaus of the Schpelling Geschtapo.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 11:06AM
Tim, I happen to agree with your comments. Please do proofread them to make them even more effective. Bob K is an ass.
Bob K.| 5.20.11 @ 11:42AM
The guy has some good points. Except that he is a damn bore and needs some self discipline.
Bob K.| 5.20.11 @ 11:51AM
Occam, pardon me, but you are and educated man and you know better than to encourage these rants even though they might have some merit. And you know damn well that I have agreed with you on many occasions.
Posting the same thing 5 times in different articles is a bit much if it hasn't been well said. This was a mild critique compared to the norm here.
Bob K.| 5.20.11 @ 12:04PM
My apologies for the typo. I know the difference between "and" and "an."
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:33PM
OK, Bob. I'll be nice. But I would rather have a guy incoherently posting correctly reasoned comments than a guy raising my blood pressure through being a StormFront loving offspring of a neurosyphilitic camel and a leprous Armadillo.
I don't know how many times Clint has physically threatened people, but it grows very old. I feel very sorry for his medical condition caused by overuse of steroids, and I know it hurts when his attempts at getting a girlfriend are met by giggles and snorts while pointing at his atrophied crotch, but that truly annoys.
My apologies, Bob---I was cranky and inappropriate. And Tim, please proofread. Your points are excellent, and you want them to get across as effectively as possible.
Clint| 5.22.11 @ 11:24AM
Spoken like The Short, Fat, Aging Neo-Chickenhawk Coward Obsessed Fixated Fanatic Israel Firster Traitor Bastard You Are, Tool Job.
I don't Wok Out On "Roids" , Slandering Liar Short Fat Bastard, Tool Job.
victor| 5.22.11 @ 2:17PM
Proof positive that phony Religion can't change a soul.
Only Christ Jesus can.
Repent and be saved before it's too late.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 8:27PM
Here's a commentary from Jonah Goldberg, who no one could consider a neo-con:
"Did Obama Mean to Do That?
So I watched Obama's big speech yesterday, in part because I knew I would be talking about it on the Special Report panel. (I'm sufficiently busy these days trying to get this [expletive deleted] book done that I have to be somewhat selective in my overall news intake. Watching a speech by Obama rather than just following the coverage and reading the transcript is a big investment of time that could be used for writing. The fact that it was on and I couldn't find the remote helped too.)
Anyway, up until he got to Israel, I thought it was pretty good. Like a lot of people, I joked on Twitter how I thought the original Bush version was better. But except for his very odd insinuation that he had anything to do with the Arab Spring or the claim that his administration has been on the side of democracy from the get-go, I thought it showed real growth.
By the way, he should be very, very careful about taking credit for the Arab Spring. I mean, talk about taking credit for a love child that may end up being a real bastard.
For the record, the first two years of his administration had little to nothing to do with democracy promotion. His policy was "liberal realism," where he tried to engage with tyrants out of a childish and dangerous "if Bush was for it, I'm against" petulance. See Josh Muravchik in the Corner. During the most important Middle East moment in years -- the failed Iranian revolution of 2009 -- he buried his head in the sand until it was too late.
But as folks on both sides of the aisle should always remember, it's better to have the president hypocritically join your side than consistently oppose it. Which brings us to . . .
1967 and All That
The main event of the speech was the section on Israel. Frankly, when I watched the speech, I didn't think it was that bad. In fact, I thought -- and still think -- that this was the most pro-Israel speech Obama has ever given (or ever dreamed he'd give). Now, that may be faint praise à la "the prettiest Helen Thomas has ever looked" or "the most loyal cat on earth" or "the funniest Carrot Top routine I've ever seen" ("or the most pointless G-File ever?" -- the Couch). But it's something. Frankly, I simply missed what has caused all of the controversy. The only thing I will say in my defense is that a lot of folks who are more invested in the Israel issue than I am -- Jeffrey Goldberg (no relation), various colleagues at AEI (no relation), and several of my go-to Israel guys -- more or less seemed to have missed it at first too. After all, that Israel should return to the 1967 borders (i.e. the 1949 armistice lines) with mutually agreed upon swaps of land is not a new view. What's new is the idea that Obama thinks that the negotiations should start there, rather than end there. It's actually a big difference.
Basically, in 1997 and, more important, in 2004, the U.S. government assured the Israelis that if they made tangible concessions -- leaving Hebron and Gaza -- then the United States would commit to ensuring that Israel had "defensible borders" at the end of the "peace process." "Defensible borders" is the term of art because it recognizes the fact that Israel cannot defend the borders as they were in 1967, when it was only about eight miles wide in the middle. (After recently visiting Israel and touring the relevant topography, I have something of a new appreciation for how serious the concern for defensible borders really is.) By insisting that the negotiations start with 1967 borders as the baseline, pro-Israel critics say, Obama put Israel in a very bad spot.
Remember these assurances weren't made simply by the Clinton and Bush administration, but by the U.S. government. Since Israel can't negotiate with the hapless Palestinians, it made a deal with the Americans. Critics insist the Obama administration has reneged on that deal. It's true that Hillary Clinton has refused on more than one occasion to say that the White House considers itself bound by the 2004 assurances. (For a detailed tick-tock, see this December 2009 Rick Richman piece.)
It's kind of amazing how the New York Times crowd desperately wants this to be big news and so does the conservative talk radio crowd. One side says, "Yay! Obama is throwing Israel under the bus!" The other side says, "How dare Obama throw Israel under the bus!?"
I'm still not so sure either side is really grasping the key dynamic here. The Obama administration's position certainly isn't news, even by the critics' standard, since even they concede this has been Obama's stance since 2009. And his talk of swaps echoes what Bush and Clinton before had proposed or discussed. If this were really the existential attack on Israel some are making it out to be, I'd at least expect folks like Jeffrey Goldberg to be madder and folks like, er, the Palestinians to be happier.
That said, I think I am persuaded that what Obama is proposing is bad news for Israel. I hate to admit it, but after Charles Krauthammer (we chatted after the show and he good-naturedly accused me of going soft on Israel) and Elliott Abrams, the person who's made the most persuasive case is . . . Alan Dershowitz. I have never been a fan of Dershowitz. I believe on more than one occasion I have written that if he took Viagra he'd get taller. But he can be very good on Israel.
Less Evil More Stupid -- Or Partisan
Now I could be completely wrong on this, but I don't think Obama thought he was giving an anti-Israel speech (See John Podhoretz on this.). I think he thought he was placating Israel and pandering to pro-Israel Jews in the U.S. I think he thought he was kicking the can down the road because he knows that nothing will be done on the Israel-Palestine issue until at least 2013 (and more likely 2023). I think he saw his AIPAC speech coming up and heard the complaints from Jewish donors and choked, figuring he could deliver a "bold" speech that called for "bold" action but was dead on arrival the second it left his mouth. He's flip-flopping on nearly every other important issue he can in order to get reelected; I sincerely doubt he cares more about either Middle East peace or shafting Israel than he does about getting reelected. I think he thinks this a prudent retreat."
I think this sums it up well. Essentially, I think Obama is clueless about the Middle East, and he approaches things from the wrong basis. In addition, he has too many friends with attitudes towards Israel and Jews similar to Clint (that is, Hamas sympathizers).
In short, he's useless.
coldhardfacts| 5.20.11 @ 8:41AM
President Obama is not just wrong but brazenly wrong, in your face wrong. His intentions are not friendly.
Real Friends
Obama for the Brits and Israelis,
Our allies, has some deep enmities.
He doesn't follow Yule,
Half the golden rule,
And that half is he loves our enemies.
So he talks to the Brits perforce,
To China and Brazile till he hoarse.
With Mid-East he confabs
And to Russia he blabs;
With Israel he has intercourse.
irish19| 5.20.11 @ 11:31AM
Both equally true, but the second one flows better from a poetical standpoint.
Louis Jenkins| 5.20.11 @ 8:54AM
Well, well. Here we have obama giving away 1 billion dollars in loan guarantees, and forgiving Eygpt of another billion dollars. And he couldn't have Texas declared a disaster zone and they had over 1 million acres burned to a crisp. 1967 Israeli borders? The obamanator continues doing what he does best. Destroying his relationship with Israel, if he ever had one, and giving away our national treasury like its water. Obama is plainly a Muslim.
Mimi| 5.20.11 @ 9:20AM
He spewed a LOT of rights to the Arab world. Too bad he doesn't give some to us , instead of EVERY darn day taking more AWAY. Can you imagine if he talked with such flowery words to his own citizens...instead of all the CAN'TS....no drilling, no choice in FOOD, lightbulbs,heat, driving, on and on the list can go....more freedoms taken away than at any time in HISTORY!
Ken (Old Texican)| 5.20.11 @ 8:59AM
If Israel gives up the Golan heights, it is too dumb to survive.
Israel is at least ten times as strong, economically and militarily than it was in 1967. It also has a LOT more ammo.
The bordering Arab states have not strengthened at all in terms of a cross border attack capability... or enthusiasm on the part of their militaries.
Chef Schnauzer| 5.20.11 @ 9:14AM
Any idea how many satellites does Israel have and what sort of capability? Of all the allies available (excepting the United Kingdom) Israel is the only one I would enthusiastically share orbital defenses with.
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 11:06AM
Israel should never, and never will, give up the Golan, as anyone who has ever visited the area knows. It would leave everyone who sits in the shadow of those heights in mortal danger.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 11:18AM
Who knows what Obama will try to make them do, RCV. Golan is not part of the pre-1967 borders, and would not be included in any conceivable "land swap." Therefore, it would be given up, no?
I agree it should never be given up, except to a Democratic, secular, openly friendly Syria (and, at 48 and 5 feet 8, I'm going for an NBA try out next week), but I fail to see Obama's support for it being kept in Israeli hands.
Tim the Enchanter| 5.20.11 @ 11:30AM
If I'm not mistaken, most of Israel's fresh water comes from that region.
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 1:17PM
The Israelis are quite capable of holding their own in negotiations.
RCV| 5.21.11 @ 3:04PM
The Golan isn't involved in the Palestine/Israel equation. No one has ever suggested it should be part of a Palestinian state and neither Israel nor Syria would countenance such a suggestion. It's a matter strictly for Syria and Israel to deal with.
Ken (Old Texican)| 5.20.11 @ 9:07AM
Another couple of thoughts: Does anyone here know precisely what valley lies exactly behind the Golan heights, (On the Israeli side)?
Read my book. www.americaalonesaidno.com
JimH| 5.20.11 @ 9:31AM
Could of been worse. It could have been the 1947 borders.
BackToBasics| 5.21.11 @ 1:15AM
I think Obam hopes that this will be the end result. Going to the 1967 boundaries is just a fig leaf to cover the real goal which is, as you put it, 1947-no-boundaries-at-all.
saleboter| 5.20.11 @ 9:37AM
Personally I hope that after this speech Israel has re-targeted one of their nukes on Washington DC.
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 11:05AM
Ah, spoken like a real American patriot.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 11:10AM
C'mon, RCV. It was a blatant sell-out.
But I don't think Israel is gonna get hostile, and Obummer will forget this stuff soon enough because it will interfere with his Golf game. He will be happy to leave in 2012 and move on to a life of quarter-million dollar speeches, 10 a year.
DRed| 5.20.11 @ 11:31AM
How was it a sell-out? It's the same basic two-state solution that America has been pushing for over a decade.
Fredrick Ward| 5.20.11 @ 4:31PM
No, the United States have not been pushing Israel to go back to pre-1976 borders in the past decade. It is a sell out because anyone with a brain in their head knows that such is not defensible, and would spell doom for Israel.
Of course, it is nothing new from the jackass in office because he takes every single opportunity he can to support Islamic movements; even if they are backed by blatant terrorists.
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 7:42PM
Read the speech. He didn't say go back to the pre 1967 borders. He said those borders WITH ADJUSTMENTS both sides agree to. Israel will never agree to give up areas necessary for security, nor will it ever give up Jerusalem. Obama knows this, and nothing he said is inconsistent with Israel's position, as Livni indicated and as the comments after the Netanyahu-Obama meeting made clear. He also reiterated this afternoon that Hamas is a terrorist group with which Israel has every right to refuse to negotiate. Stop trying to pick a fight between the US and Israel.
irish19| 5.21.11 @ 2:30AM
However, I suspect zero wants to be able to blame Israel for any failure to reach a settlement. Therefore, he sets out conditions he knows Israel would never agree to.
RCV| 5.21.11 @ 3:07PM
He's also set out conditions Hamas would never agree to and explicitly stated that Israel shouldn't be expected to negotiate unless Hamas does agree.
Fredrick Ward| 5.21.11 @ 10:18PM
You definitely heard a different speech than I did when Netanyahu spoke. From where I was sitting, and from where Levine, and Rush were sitting, that man schooled Obama on how much a complete moron he is in relation to foreign policy. Netanyahu made it VERY clear that his objectives were not consistent with Obama's at all in the least. Please.. try sell that to someone else has been sleeping under a rock for a few days.
RCV| 5.21.11 @ 11:07PM
I can quote you his exact words on Hamas if you'd like.
Fredrick Ward| 5.23.11 @ 4:29PM
I heard the speech several times, but if you like you may feel free to post whatever you like, RCV.
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 1:18PM
It was absolutely in no way a sell-out, Occam. I reviewed exactly what he said. To call it a sell-out is simply a lie.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:36PM
OK, RCV. As they said in A Clockwork Orange (the movie, not the book), "Actions speak louder than."
I have yet to see actions of Obama that are trustworthy and useful. But, then again, I lean to the right. Time will unfold in all its gory. (No typo)
Gr0w1er| 5.20.11 @ 1:02PM
Yikes...! I'd rather think if/when Israel goes down swinging they won't do it that way- no matter what that idiot troll who currently occupies the White House says/mouths. Israel- you still have strong friends among us American conservatives.
Michael Hawke | 5.20.11 @ 9:44AM
It seems to me that Obama has announced a new Stimulus Program aimed at exporting revolution and subsidizing Pakistan's nuke weapons program.
hunter| 5.20.11 @ 9:50AM
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its a duck. This duck kept his mouth shut when Iran had riots after a sham election. The muslims were in control, so keep moving, nothing to see here, no democracy needed here, everything is fine. But when there was some turmoil in Egypt. Then the Duck issues decrees, something must be done. The president that has gotten along with Israel for decades must go...we need democracy, then along comes the muslim brotherhood. ohh what a surprise. Then The same with Libyra, and other at peace other countries untill the duck instigates turmoil and unrest....but never with a muslim controlled country, cause everything is right there so keep moving, be quiet, nothing to see here. Well I have news for that Muslim imposter artificial, immitation, counterfit president. His muslim is showing, it couldn't anymore obivious than seeing him in full muslin dress. His quran says its ok to behave as a infidel if it is to help in their demise. Another thing, I could get a certificate of live birth from mars if I wanted one or Hawaii even, any year, any name, any time.
martin j smith| 5.20.11 @ 10:05AM
I forgot one other small thing: where is the money going to come from for aid to the terrorists ? And, when will we hear from our wonderkinds in Congress about THAT ?
Michael Tomlinson| 5.20.11 @ 10:07AM
Soon he will be announcing the return of California, the Southwest and Texas (the original Texas) to Mexico as a sign of goodwill and a way of ending the border issue. Following that successful transfer Alaska will be returned to Russia and the territory of the Louisiana Purchase will go back to France. That should insure the liberal Democrat bastions of the Northeast will crown him Caliph of Ameristan – his first act following his coronation will be to call for jihad on the Christian infidels in the South and Ohio territory.
cowgirl| 5.20.11 @ 10:08AM
Michael Savage is right. Liberalism is a mental illness.
Teaghan| 5.20.11 @ 12:36PM
No question about it, Cowgirl. Sick as rabid bats.
irish19| 5.23.11 @ 12:17AM
Moonbats that is.
chuck| 5.20.11 @ 10:08AM
If there was ever a doubt as to the real spiritual beliefs of Obama...this should out it to rest...it is impossible to say I am a Believer a true Christian and come to the conclusion he seems to have. He with all his intellect could not possible be more in the wrong on this...and it will be a tremendous liability going forward. Here is another glaring example of why this guy has got to go....he is a disaster of truly biblical proportions...no pun intended...it is much to serious a subject for that.
simon templar| 5.20.11 @ 10:36AM
It is time we start shouting for impeachment.
Deborah D | 5.20.11 @ 3:19PM
I'm ready!
Red Ryder| 5.20.11 @ 10:36AM
Had Obama been president in 1949 he would have canceled the Berlin airlift. A year later he would have sent aid to the North Koreans to underwrite their invasion of South Korean.
Blegoo| 5.20.11 @ 10:44AM
Never underestimate the naivety of american foreign policy.
Oldefarte| 5.20.11 @ 10:45AM
If there is still anyone within the Jewish community or the USA at large who continues to ignorantly believe that he is an impartial seeker of a lasting and peaseful agreement, then those someones should quickly seek advice and mental assistance from their neighborhood psychiatrist ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 11:13AM
Correct, Oldefarte, because they would be delusional.
I don't practice in an area with a whole lot of my fellow, overwhelmingly Liberal, Jews. My BP is already high enough. I'd probably be hapiest practicing in a Likud district, I suppose, but I love Minnesota country.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 11:15AM
"happiest."
Oldefarte| 5.21.11 @ 12:57PM
OT: I'm still in shock/amazement that 80% of the Jewish vote in November of 2008 went to him, and I also read recently that, even in consideration of his most recent slap-in-the-face to Israel [and Bebe's rightful denunciation of same while at the WH, still polling indications are that the Jewish vote would go to him next year. I just don't get it. Why, when it should be obvious to anyone with brain cells that this guy is the most anti-Israel president in all of history???????????????
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:45PM
Because, believe it or not, we aren't as clannish as people think. In addition, frustrated brilliance leads sometimes to sociopathy.
For example, the greatest spy in modern history was Jewish (not Israeli)---Sidney Reilly, who was the inspiration for James Bond. reilly was more than a bit of a sociopath.
Besides, some of them are all wrapped up in being a Liberal rather than looking out for their own survival. I, on the other hand, have always noted that there are people like Jack in Wi. (the Jews you know are not your friends, idiot) and Clint who would see my children killed. That's the reason G-d made IMI and IMI makes Desert Eagles. I'm an old man, and I would never fight without force multipliers if I can avoid it. I also don't fight over insults, as it bores me. I've worked with mass murderers and other violent psychopaths. I have been attacked multiple times in my work. I still live, despite scars.
I intend to go on living despite how many assholes I piss off.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:46PM
On the other hand, Oldefarte, I also know who the good guys are. Thanks for you work and have a great weekend.
Oldefarte| 5.22.11 @ 12:58PM
OT: Wayne Allen Root's editorial on Newsmax.com is outstanding, regarding this subject. I hope that his claim that Jewish political support and financiang has now dried up due to Obama's GO BACK TO THE '67 BORDERS speech is correct. He correctly describes envangelicals admiration for the Jewish people and for Israel. I understand the traditional/historical liberalism of the Jewish community and their loyal political support of the Democratic Party, but my point is that this president is way beyond a Kennedy/Clinton etc type Democrat, and his disguised loyalties to the causes of Muslim countries was evident to me long before November of 2008. I just hope and pray that Root's assessment of the reversal of Jewish suport for him has now come to pass, because IMO the fate of not only Israel but the USA also is at stake with next year's election. If he re-elected, we can all kiss our backsides goodbye!!!!!!!!
RCV| 5.22.11 @ 3:42PM
Obama's well-received speech to AIPAC this morning has taken much of the wind out of the sails of those who are happy to try to drive a wedge beween Israel and the US if it will advance GOP political interests. But American Jews, bless them, ae generally much too intelligent to heed such siren calls. Since Harry Tuman and the founding of Israel, they've known which party is Israel's true friend, and it isn't the ones with big oil interests and close ties to the Saudi royal family.
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 11:05AM
It's NOT a """"PARTY"""""["....Since Harry Tuman and the founding of Israel, they've known which party is Israel's true friend, and it isn't the ones with big oil interests and close ties to the Saudi royal family...."] but an certain INDIVIDUALS WITHIN THAT PARTY that is their problem-enemy. The same individuals who are clandestinely trying to overthrow traditional [though dictatorial] middle eastern leaders so that Muslim religious leaders can take their place and control the entire area [and reign supreme with Sharia Law]. The same individuals who CAPTURED our country in 2008. The party of Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Clinton, Carter etc is NOT the same party of today [but that will all change in November of next year]!!!!!!!!!!
RCV| 5.23.11 @ 1:39PM
We shall see, Oldfarte, we shall see. So far the GOP hasn't exactly settled on a candidate that could hit 45%. And I'm sorry you lament the passing of such fine leaders as Ghaddafi and, hopefully, Assad. And American Jews can obviously perceive who's their friend and who's not -- they do so at the ballot box every election.
John| 5.20.11 @ 10:45AM
The Zionist apartheid entity should be so lucky. By accepting 67 borders the palestinons have given up rights to 80% of historic Palestine. The zionist racist enitity should be throwing the confetti around like there's no tomorrow. The worst nightmare for the Zionist fascist entity is that the palestinions demand one person one vote in the lands it occupies. The Zionist murdering entity knows thar which ever way it goes its lose- lose. Evil will not prevail. Do the Zino Nazis ever really believe that they could turn the heart of the islamic world into a murder fest of Muslims and expect to get away with it. The crusaders lasted two hundred years. I give the Zino lying entity and its fairy tales a few more decades before it collapses under its own contradictions. but the racists on this site will never understand. Deaf, dumb and blind they will never return to the truth.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 11:13AM
Thanks, Baby killer.
John| 5.20.11 @ 11:42AM
You should know. Since you've supported the external adventures over the last ten years which caused the death of millions of women and children. On the other hand I'm against violence unless its aimed as racists. Thats why I enjoying watching inglorious basterds.
Wayne | 5.20.11 @ 11:46AM
Your use of "zionist" points to your own racism. Maybe you need to start fearing yourself.
John| 5.20.11 @ 12:12PM
Zionism is a racist colonising apartheid ideology. Or have I missed something. Is Theodore herzel the most misunderstood guy in history. It is not that the Zionist have stolen land and continue to do so that suprises me. It surprises me that they believe that will get away with it. I guarantee that one day every palestinion will go home and that each pf the 18 thousand mosques destroyed by the zionists will be rebuilt. It will take great patience. But those who follow the religion of truth know that patience will bring victory.
Teaghan| 5.20.11 @ 12:40PM
Hey racist John, what about the Christian churches and Christians that are being destroyed weekly worldwide? And harsh rhetoric for that topic? Freak.
Teaghan| 5.20.11 @ 12:41PM
I meant to say,,,"ANY harsh rhetoric....."
SpiralArchitect| 5.20.11 @ 1:11PM
"I guarantee that one day..."
Your guarantee is backed by...what?
Kool-aid I suspect.
John, once you are a tard. The second time and thereafter you are a re-tard.
John| 5.20.11 @ 8:53PM
My complete faith in GOD. My faith that evil and tyranny will never prevail. Where there is a will .....
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:55PM
John:
your boys just beheaded a three month old baby. No accident---they sawed off her head. Join Jack and Clint in the jackboot line, anus.
Oldefarte| 5.22.11 @ 1:09PM
OT: That's typical of those Muslim animals 'STUPIDLY' follow the radical teaching [by distorting the meanings of their religious book] of lunatic Muslim [un]holy men whose only intent is to advance their own ascension to their asinine pedistals. Just like the cowardice of UBL's cowering in front of the Seal Team 6's assault before eating a bullet, these gutless bastards bully/pick upon innocent women and children to kill and maime since they don't have the courage to go toe-to-toe with a MAN WITH A RIFLE!!!!
irish19| 5.23.11 @ 12:21AM
If the man's got a rifle and knows what he's about there's no such thing as toe to toe. It's a bullet in the head from about 400 yds. away.
Now if you're talking about rifles with bayonets on the end-----well that's a different story.
simon templar| 5.22.11 @ 1:00PM
Those who follow the religion of truth? Ah, you mean Islam? John, the Muslim with an anglo name is going to lecture us on Zionism. Racist colonizing apatheid ideology. Hmm...seems I remember a different history. I remember a British occupier of a territory consisting of Jews, Arabs, and descendants of phillistines living in an area that once belonged to Jews calling themselves Israelites. That area being renamed by a roman emperor, Palestine, as a sick joke. Then I remember those British with the approval of the UN rescinding their control to these people so as two create two states, one for jews and one for non-jews because the non-jews would not live with the jews and wanted their own state. Then I remember the day after "independence", the attack on this new jewish state by surrounding arab nations and the so-called palestinians in an attempt to destroy it. Following this attack were a series of other attacks by the arab nations over a thirty year period all of which resulted in land acquired through victory of these Israelites. Dat don't sound like racist colonizing to this cowboy. Sounds more like a sore loser, religious fanatic, jew hater who can not keep his history correct.
Ken (Old Texican)| 5.20.11 @ 12:15PM
Hey John muhammed
an excerpt from my blog. I just know you will enjoy it.
""Ladies and gentlemen, America is engaged in World War Four. Sadly, our so-called leaders have not acknowledged it yet, but it is truly a war to the knife!
You see, it truly is a ‘Holy War’ and no quarter can be given. We worship the true eternal God of Justice, and mercy, and love. Our opponents worship a god of murder, rape, and In-justice…and Mohammed was his prophet! ""
John| 5.20.11 @ 12:58PM
Ken ( the acidic Texan)
I was wondering when you would pop up. what is it with this book of yours. R u not selling enough. May be you would change genre. The Muslim hate market is not particularly large. Just a friendly tip. Christianity was one of the great monotheistic faiths until Paul got hold of it. Paulianity is just paganism. Don't worry Jesus's (prophet ISA) true message can be found in Islam. he will return in the last days. You may be surprised by what he will say ( read the Quran to find out).
Ken (Old Texican)| 5.20.11 @ 4:38PM
Always love to visit with you, John muhammed.
I LOVE to discuss with a follower of Allah (Satan).
Hopefully we will meet over open sights one day.
Say, how old was your little girl-wife the first time you raped her?
If I'm not mistaken, your so-called "prophet" preferred nine years old for his first rape of his little girl-wife.
And yes, my book is doing extremely well. A hundred million Americans will read it. Most of them hate child molestors.
See,
A lot of Americans don't get "terrorized". We simply get pissed off.
See,
our homegrown leftists are essentially cowards. They won't stand up in a fight. Conversely, we patriots have the technical know-how and the courage to shoot pedophiles like you...and your pencil-dick prophet.
Oldefarte| 5.22.11 @ 1:11PM
I prefer to use same on my rear end!!!!!!!
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 8:28PM
Millions?
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 11:07AM
Learn how to SPELL.........MORON!!!!!!
irish19| 5.20.11 @ 11:38AM
I think maybe it's past time we had another Crusade.
You moon-god worshiping 7th century savages seem to have forgotten what it's like.
Or maybe we could just play a little cowboys & saracens.
Deus vult!
irish19| 5.20.11 @ 11:40AM
Oh yeah. There is no historic state of Palestine.
You people have been hacked off at the Jews since God picked Abraham over Lot. Give it a rest.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:56PM
Irish,
I'm really, really, really, really starting to like you a lot.
irish19| 5.23.11 @ 12:23AM
You'll turn what's left of my hair. Thanks.
Cpm| 5.20.11 @ 11:42AM
All evidence points to muslims turning the heart of the islamic world into a murder fest of Muslims. You know, the Islamic murder entity.
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 1:24PM
That is pure garbage and you know it, John. The Arabs were given 2/3 of the Palestine Mandate to set up an Arab state: it was called Jordan. Out of the remaining 1/3, a portion was allocated for a Jewish state. The only reason I would even support a Palestinian (i.e. another Arab state) in the West Bank and Gaza is that Israel can't remain Jewish and democratic if it incorporates those territories,
Ken (Old Texican)| 5.20.11 @ 4:40PM
RCV
see above.
John| 5.20.11 @ 4:57PM
Another Arab state.... Who the hell are you to give or not to give. If you like the zionists so much give them your house. Nobody ever had a right to ethnically cleanse the palestinions. The Zionist exploited Muslim and Arab weakness to ethnically and culturally cleanse palestnions. Its very sad that palestnions have to negotiate with people who have blood on their hands. the fact that in the 21st century the Zionist continue to ethnically cleanse is a bloody disgrace. this state will collapse as I've said under it own contradictions.
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 6:29PM
Nobody "gave" the Zionists anything anymore than they "gave" the Arabs the land they occupied. The Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza and other areas were formally invited by the UN to form a state in the areas designated, as were the Jews. The Jews did so, and proclaimed a state. The Arab nations surrounding Palestine invaded, and when they were defeated by the Israelis, they (Jordan and Egypt) seized the West Bank and Gaza and incorporated into their existing countries instead of creating a "Palestinian" state. When it did so, Jordan rightly proclaimed that IT was Arab Palestine, and the Palestinian national assembly ratified that claim. The only "exploitation" Zionists engaged in was in BUYING Arab land, which they happily sold. If you're waiting for NEVER
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 6:32PM
The last sentence should read "If you're waiting for Israel to "collapse", it will NEVER happen, because neither Israel nor the American people would EVER let that happen. NEVER!
John| 5.20.11 @ 9:02PM
Never. We will see. I give it a few more decades tops unless they remove the remaining Arabs from isreal proper who constitute between 30-40 % of the population. They will form the majority in a few years. If you include the occupation Arabs already form a majority. and I'm not even including the refugees in this discussion.
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 9:12PM
We shall see, indeed.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:58PM
John---molon labe, Beavis.
RCV| 5.21.11 @ 11:23PM
Gee, John, with that population growth, it's hard to see what "ethnic cleansing" went on. But those figures are exactly why Israel cannot survive as Jewish and democratic while retaining the West Bank. It was a mistake not to return the bulk of it to Jordan in 1967. Jordan would never have countenanced an independent Palestinian entity there, as it refused to from 1948 to 1967. But we can't turn back the clock. At this point, we know several things for certain : (1) Israel will always retain greater Jerusalem, with the Mount under Islamic religious tion but Israeli political control; (2) Israel will not return the Golan to Syria, certainly not to Iran-allied Assad Syria; (3) Israel cannot absorb the Arab areas of the West Bank into the country, but it should retain the major Jewish settlements especially those around Jerusalem; (4) as long as Hamas remains a viable force in Palestinian politics, which means as long as the medieval mullahs still run things in Tehran, Israel should not consider resumption of negotiations.
After Assad follows Ghadaffi down the despot cesspool, the thugs in Tehran are next. It's the inexorable march of human freedom.
John| 5.22.11 @ 10:23AM
It is the many ironies of zionism that the only way of preserving a jewish identity is to go back not to the 67 Borders but the 49 Borders. Greater isreal by definition can not remain Jewish. Zionist hung by their own pitard. I'm loving it.
RCV| 5.22.11 @ 2:12PM
You can love it all you want, John, but reflect upon this: which group has taken a barren desert and transformed it into one of the most prosperous, technologically advanced democratic societies in the world? And which group, blessed with the most abundant valuable resources in the world, still lives in medeival theocracy, with miserable oppressed people living in squallid camps, with no industry, commerce or culture to speak of? It's not a pretty comparison, and if I were you I'd be weeping and asking myself how the Arab nation let itself into such pathetic depths. Maybe God is trying to tell you something.
John| 5.22.11 @ 6:57PM
The question is not how well the isrealis organise their affairs. The question is not what a great asset Jews are to humanity. The fundamental question is that in any just order you do not have a right to steal somebody elses land. This illigitamcy haunts the zionists. The treatment of the palestinions is appalling and must end. Zionism needs to evolve and accept the original sin. Then may be we can move forward .
RCV| 5.22.11 @ 8:24PM
No one stole anybody's land. Jews and Arabs had lived in Palestine for centuries. The UN invited them both to form states in the area after the emir of the Ottomans -- who HAD stolen everyone's land -- collapsed. The Jews did so in 1948 and were attacked by surrounding Arab countries, who then took the land allocated for Palestinian Arabs. Israel won those territories from Jordan and Egypt after a war in 1973. In hindsight, it would have been better for Israel to have returned much of the West Bank to Jordan, which would have ensured that the thugs in the PLO --whom Jordan dealt with in the right way -- never had control over to loot from the Palestinian people. That was Israel's only mistake.
RCV| 5.22.11 @ 8:25PM
That should have read "empire of the Ottomans"
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 4:58PM
'Tis not "ethnic cleansing" when the population grows and grows, dumbass. Also, the Israelis treat the palestinians in their hospitals for free, and then the patients come back and try to murder the doctors and nurses who got them better.
John| 5.21.11 @ 8:13PM
I get it now. All that ethnic cleansing and murder is ok because they apparently treat a few Arabs in the isreali hospitals for free. This is the logic of an imbecile. Next you'll be telling us how great slavery was because look at the standard of living of Africans. Dumbass racist.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 8:30PM
All that ethnic cleansing (not happening) and murder (ha!)...
Clint, your use of different names is showing....
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 11:20AM
OT, don't these MORONS realize that the imbecilic Palestinians/Arabs don't have the intelligence to wipe their backsides without the Israelies. Their entire economic/financial existence is dependent upon the Israelies/Jews, who established/own the companies that the Arabs work for, the utilities that electrify their residents, etc. These Arabs are typical of the WELFARE DEPENDENTS that exist in this country, except that those in the middle east wear rags on their heads. The only economic activity that these Arabs are capable of generating comes from the ground oil that American etc companies tell them how to extract and sell [since they're too stupid to figure it out for themsleves; but hey anyone who bows and scrapes on a rug to radical preachers using a book of toilet paper for inspiration aren't the brightest bulbs in the box, huh?]!!!!!!!!!!
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 11:08AM
Get a dictionary, moron!!!!!!!
C Smith| 5.20.11 @ 10:59AM
Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children (Isaiah 66:8).
On Sabbath Eve, the 5th Day of Iyar 5708 (14 May 1948) David Ben-Gurion declared the establishment of the State of Israel and appealed “to the Jewish people throughout the Diaspora to rally round the Jews of Eretz-Israel … in the great struggle for the realization of the age-old dream — the redemption of Israel.” President Truman, an outsider unexpectedly elevated to the Oval Office a few years earlier, was immediately notified. Quickly hand correcting a two sentence response without notifying officials of contrary opinion in the State Department or a Special Session of the UN General Assembly, the United States, in the person of Harry S. Truman, was the first to recognize “the provisional government as de facto authority of the new state of Israel.” In the eleven minutes it took Truman to respond, the two thousand year justification for SPIRITUALIZING Israel's covenants, promises, and blessings vaporized! The children of Israel were in the land.
The first person of course is the radiant woman which was none other than the nation of Israel. And fighting against the woman was the great dragon and this dragon is none other the person of Satan in his great diabolical work in trying to destroy the nation of Israel because by that he could make God a liar... Of course he ultimately fails because God will yet proclaim His purpose for Israel. He will yet reveal that purpose. It will yet be unfolded in time to come and the very fact that Israel is a nation today is indicative of the fact that God is going to keep His Word as if there was any doubt (The Valley Church, emphasis added).19
There was dancing in the streets, and then the realization that Israel’s rebirth would be through the fire. Arab forces of Lebanon, Syria, Iraqi, Egypt, Tran Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Libya, and Yemen converged within hours to annihilate the fledgling nation, which in the estimation of British Field Marshall Montgomery would occur within two weeks due to the imbalance in training and ordnance: “1 tank w/o gun (Arabs 40 tanks), 0 war planes (Arabs 74), 5 artillery pieces (Arabs 140), 3 armed ships (Arabs 12)” (Yosef Ofek, Not on a Silver Platter: From National Home to Sovereign State, 1939-1949, 1984). Israel did have access to a few Piper Cubs, from which Jews tossed empty seltzer bottles modified to mimic the sound of falling bombs. They also had a few other small planes where the bombardier, legs strapped to the door, would chuck improvised bombs (some with sewer pipe casings) between his legs football style. Like David in the valley of Elah they had little more than sticks and stones, but they were fulfilling His purpose “that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel” (cf. 1 Samuel 17).
19The Valley Church, Chapter 13, 9/14/75, (audio tape).
http://theisraelofgod.blogspot.....e-day.html
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 11:02AM
I have never understood why some who pretend to support a strong Israeli-American relationship -- as I firmly do -- strain to create discord between the two.
The fact is that the only thing new in President Obama's remarks on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict was his announcement of the US's firm opposition of any attempt at the United Nations to unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state without the agreement of Israel. The press in Israel this morning has wisely recognized that victory, as have the Palestinians to their disappointment.
Obama's comments on the 1967 borders being the starting point for negotiations, "with mutually agreed swaps , so that secure and recognized borders are established for both sides" is a restatement of US policy that adjustments in the 1967 borders that Israel approves of will have to be made to accomodate the realities of population changes since then, and to secure a defensible border for Israel.
Second, President Obama roundly condemned the Palestinians for the recent Hamas-PLO accord as an insurmountable obstacle to progress: "In particular, the recent announcement of an agreement between Fatah and Hamas raises profound and legitimate questions for Israel -- how can one negotiate with a party that has shown itself unwilling to recognize your right to exist?" he said that "Symbolic actions to isolate Israel at the United Nations in September won't create an independent state. Palestinian leaders will not achieve peace or prosperity if Hamas insists on a path of terror and rejection. And Palestinians will never realize their independence by denying the right of Israel to exist."
Lastly, Obama reiterated that, "As for Israel, our friendship is rooted deeply in a shared history and shared values. Our commitment to Israel's security is unshakeable. And we will stand against attempts to single it out for criticism in international forums."
And, by the way, he also lashed out at Islamicist attacks on Coptic Christians, and their continued denial of human rights for women: "Coptic Christians must have the right to worship freely in Cairo, just as Shia must never have their mosques destroyed in Bahrain. What is true for religious minorities is also true when it comes to the rights of women. ... That is why we will continue to insist that universal rights apply to women as well as men."
Instead of blindly accepting the right wing spinmeister's version of Obama's remarks, read the speech itself.
Wayne | 5.20.11 @ 11:44AM
Funny, this is not how Israel took it. Why not?
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 1:19PM
That is not how Bibi took it, and that was for internal political consumption. Livni praised the speech and recognized it for what it was - a restatement of long announced US policy and a rebuke to Hamas.
Arizona Bob| 5.20.11 @ 12:02PM
You may well be right that the author should have given Pres. Obama credit for reiterating standard U.S. policies, such as agreeing to minor land "swaps" for the sake security and demographic logic, or insisting on not recognizing a Palestinian state without Israel's agreement. However, there is I believe Congressional legislation that requires any deal to which the U.S. is a party, including as mediator, to follow such basic requirements. So all he is doing here, really -- and again, I'm quite willing to give him credit -- is saying what a U.S. president must say.
I think the point here, though, is that the speech as it is heard at home and abroad, opens the door politically for a game change. Obviously, a reversal of alliances is impossible, but it can be argued that the administration is moving toward a political and historical shift in the way the U.S. sees the evolving Middle East.
Shifts are inevitable, history moves. But why now? Why indeed was this speech even necessary this week? After months of demonstration that the source of Arab dysfunction is not Israel but Arab political and cultural pathologies ("the fault lies not in our stars but in our stars, Horatio..."), the President of the United States, of all people, invites the Arabs to shift the focus back on the mirage of what in our own history, since he evoked the civil rights struggles used to be called "outside agitators."
Note, by the way, that he scarcely, if at all, mentioned the Saudis. Is he worried about them? This speech and its repercussions clearly merits serious attention by Obama-watchers, but one may doubt they will be happy with what they see, notwithstanding the perfectly correct pro-Israel gestures -- rather like boiler-plate, though, in the context -- that are included in it.
Ken (Old Texican)| 5.20.11 @ 12:20PM
RCV
Just one problem. Obama is a congenital liar.
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 1:20PM
So say you, Ken, so there's nothing he could say that would please you anyway.
Drunken Sailor| 5.20.11 @ 2:31PM
Did he insist Palestines accept and proclaim that Israel is the Jewish state? Last I heard they refused to do so.
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 4:01PM
Yes he did
Drunken Sailor| 5.20.11 @ 2:32PM
So your saying he basically re-stated Bush's stance?
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 11:28AM
BS! He started out of the box in 2008-09 by condemning Israel's building of settlements within the captured lands [hey to the captor belongs the spoils], continued with insulting the Israel PM on a previous WH visit, and now this slap in the face re '67 borders. We all know who/what side he prefers, and that is the side that his previous radical-racist preacher prefers, the side that same preacher escorted another racist-radical friend of their over to the middle east, the same side that he is now using political influence to purge traditional-dictatorial ME leaders from power so that he can replace same with radical Muslim clerics in the Irianian mold. Its obvious to anyone with intelligence and not kissing his ars constantly also!!!!!!!!!
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 11:15AM
I did, RCV. You are putting the best possible spin on it, which I would expect. You are a fine advocate.
But I don't trust this guy and his instincts.
Have a fantastic weekend, and G-d Bless.
irish19| 5.20.11 @ 11:43AM
I'm with you. What he's really saying, IMHO, is, "Look. I've got a re-election campaign to run. Make nice with Israel until I'm re-elected. Then you can continue to try and destroy her."
Nunya| 5.20.11 @ 1:42PM
Occam, I agree entirely. RCV put the best possible spin on the speech, which is fine in and of itself. Unfortunately, the reality with which the speech was interpreted implies a complete game change with the US-Israeli relationship.
The problem is, Obozo is not trustworthy in the slightest, and is obviously a supporter of Islam over Israel.
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 6:23PM
Tzipi Livni disagrees and rightly so. She praised Obama's speech as anyone who actually reads it should.
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 11:30AM
Anyone who wastes their time/energy reading his teleprompted BS is a fool!!!!!!!!!
C M B| 5.20.11 @ 11:21AM
This is all a game. Obama is creating impossible standards for Israel to meet so that when they refuse to meet them he and others can paint them as the fall guy. Israel will be the obstacle to peace.
Wayne | 5.20.11 @ 11:42AM
As the ginned up Arabs start once again to attack Israel.
Wayne | 5.20.11 @ 11:42AM
As the ginned up Arabs start once again to attack Israel.
irish19| 5.21.11 @ 2:37AM
I didn't think muzzies drank gin. I however, am looking forward to next weekend and the/my official start of gin and tonic (for the quinine) season.
John Navratil| 5.21.11 @ 12:00PM
irish19,
You never been on a BA flight from Bahrain to London, have you. In my day, they used to double up the drinks on the plane. The expats drank plenty, but they weren't the only ones, I can assure you.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 5:00PM
Irish 19
My dear man--contact Ken through his website and let me know where to send a case.
irish19| 5.23.11 @ 12:29AM
It's for the quinine. Really. And the Vitamin C from the limes. There'll be no malaria or scurvy in my home this summer! Horrible things malaria and scurvy.
davelnaf| 5.20.11 @ 11:32AM
Since entering office Obama has been reaching for the brass ring of Marxist reality—only problem is it doesn’t exist in the real world.
Wayne | 5.20.11 @ 11:40AM
Will fellow conservatives finally quit giving Obama credibility, by giving him a pass when he violates the sovereignty of other nations, kills unarmed people (from a known-terrorist to unknown unidentified people who just happen to be in the path of one of his drones). The ends do not justify the means. The same mentality that will kill OBL also will destroy Israel. That is because even conservatives will ignore his history and praise him when it suits their own purposes.
I am now seeing Obamabots out there who have turned into jingoists. They are willing to fight Pakistan and China. Remember that wars in this nation have generally been the result of left wing presidents trying to stir the pot to gain their own idea of what the world should look like. We are now seeing the untimely marriage of neo-cons with the far left. Each hoping that in the end they can somehow organize the chaos to fit their own world view.
C Smith| 5.20.11 @ 11:44AM
Let people serve thee [Jacob], and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren, and let thy mother’s sons bow down to thee: cursed be every one that curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee (Genesis 27:29).
He couched, he lay down as a lion, and as a great lion: who shall stir him up? Blessed is he that blesseth thee [Israel], and cursed is he that curseth thee (Numbers 24:9).
howard lohmuller| 5.20.11 @ 11:52AM
President Obama has staked out his position regarding not just the Middle-east, but Capitalism too. He intends to install Socialism throughout the Middle-east. He will present his plan as a type of "Marshal Plan." But handouts of money will only reinforce Islam, and an Islamic theocratic government cannot exist side by side with Capitalism. However, Socialism, or perhaps faux Socialism, can. Remember many Islamists were great fans of Hitler's Germany. Today's Islamic governments feature Government Charity with central planning, faux Socialism.
Obama's pronouncement that Israel's borders be shrunk back to the 1967 armistice lines is an invitation to Israelis to leave their homeland, the only Capitalistic Democracy in the region. It also establishes the growing influence of Iran and Syria over Israel, Lebanon, and even Saudi Arabia, one of our closest allies in the region. If unchecked, Iran will extend its influence into Iraq. The result of Obama's anti-Israel policy may give him another straw man, the Jews, to blame for the political and financial mess he has made. It will also move the Middle-east closer to war.
Dave Williams| 5.20.11 @ 12:52PM
I thought I'd lighten the discussion a bit with a quotation from Moshe Dayan. When asked whether Israelis soldiers were the best in the world, he replied "Well, I don't know. After all, we did fight only Arabs."
Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it, John, you muslim puke.
Nunya| 5.20.11 @ 1:49PM
LOL! :-)
irish19| 5.21.11 @ 2:38AM
Well shot, sir!
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 5:01PM
Yes, it does help with one's military reputation.
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 11:35AM
Yeah, a Muslim cleric is a former Jewish rabbi THAT FLUNKED HEBREW!!!!!!!
BradU| 5.20.11 @ 1:33PM
George W. Bush, January 10, 2008: "There should be an end to the occupation that began in 1967. The agreement must establish Palestine as a homeland for the Palestinian people, just as Israel is a homeland for the Jewish people. These negotiations must ensure that Israel has secure, recognized, and defensible borders. And they must ensure that the state of Palestine is viable, contiguous, sovereign, and independent."
BradU| 5.20.11 @ 1:37PM
http://georgewbush-whitehouse......110-3.html
John Navratil| 5.21.11 @ 12:22PM
BradU,
Calling on "W" in a conservative forum is not a slam-dunk, however, in the speech he also said:
"While territory is an issue for both parties to decide, I believe that any peace agreement between them will require mutually agreed adjustments to the armistice lines of 1949 [i.e. pre-1967 war] to reflect current realities and to ensure that the Palestinian state is viable and contiguous." So this was NOT a call to return to those boundaries, but to regularize the borders in order to create a Palestinian state.
The armistice lines only circumscribe the West Bank and the Gaza strip. The Golan Heights are territory captured from Syria.
A contiguous Palestinian state would require that the West Bank not be bisected, but I don't see how the West Bank and Gaza can possible be made contiguous without bisecting Israel unless the south of Israel is ceded to the Palestinian state.
shipley130| 5.20.11 @ 1:38PM
The more liberals penetrate politics, the worse life gets. Free emergency care for gangsters involved in drive by shootings, free college for illegal aliens......
To prove my point again, I am watching a headline as I write this that the Unions are threatening funding for Obama if he doesn't do more for them. Having a job for life is not enough? Having the power to prevent private business from going elsewhere for their business is not enough? EOL. Enough of Liberals.
martin j smith| 5.20.11 @ 1:40PM
Who is John and why should we care ?
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 8:32PM
Martin,
thank you for reminding me why I should NOT answer the Clint/Tim*/John/Jack in Wis of the world. It really is like trying to teach a pig to sing or a horse to purr. T'aint natural that assholes won't crap.
irish19| 5.23.11 @ 12:32AM
"T'aint natural that assholes won't crap."
Nice image. I'm told a good dose of salts will cure that.
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 11:37AM
With a bowl of bran flakes daily, my muslim terroism comes out just fine, thank you very much!!!
Sardonikus| 5.20.11 @ 1:48PM
Let us all hope that this is the beginning of the end of the most disturbing and irrational facet of Jewish self-loathing: voting Democratic.
Al Adab| 5.20.11 @ 1:54PM
Apparently our President, raised and educated in Islamic Indonesia, has forgotten - if he ever knew - who won and who started the '67 war. He might also wish to recall that it was the Israeli commander on the scene who prevented the destruction of the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa mosque when the army captured the temple mount. One might think that Moslems would be grateful.
Red Phillips | 5.20.11 @ 2:11PM
The President of the United States should have nothing to say about the Isael/Palestine conflict. It is not our business.
Peter McGrath| 5.20.11 @ 2:21PM
This is a dark day for freedom, for millions of oppressed Arab men and, especially, women, and the 8 millions (1/4 of which are Arab) citizens of the free State of Israel.
What Obama has done is ratify the view of the Arab "Street" that the Israeli surrender of the West Bank should be a precursor to further negotiations - not an item of those negotiations.
Israel will now need to hunker down for awhile and remember - it has millions of real friends here in America. Obama's days as President are numbered and what he said - yesterday - will be as forgotten as whatever that turd, Ehud Barak, said as Prime Minister 10 years ago.
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 6:22PM
Read the speech instead of making up lies about what he supposedly said. He absolutely did not call on Israel to "surrender the West Bank" before any negotiations. That's a flat lie!
John Navratil| 5.21.11 @ 11:29AM
RCV,
No he didn't, but he called for a return to 1967 borders with some mutually agreeable land swaps before the negotiations begin. What's to negotiate?
What do you propose the Israeli's have to swap for the West Bank and the Golan Heights? Gaza? Oh, they gave that away, already.
John Navratil| 5.21.11 @ 11:31AM
RCV,
My first sentence was intended to convey that the call to return to the 1967 borders was made before negotiations began, not that the capitulation be a precondition.
RCV| 5.21.11 @ 3:14PM
John - the Golan is not involved in the Palestinian question: it's strictly a Syrian-Israeli issue. And the parameters of the ultimate border are indeed the very subject of negotiation - that's what "mutually agreed upon" means. Finally Obama has reiterated support for Israel's refusal to negotiate with Hamas.
John Navratil| 5.21.11 @ 8:07PM
RCV,
I am aware that the Golan is a separate issue, I added it without thinking. Still my point is, what is to swap if the return is to the 67 borders (the 49 armistice lines).
The Golan is a tougher strategic problem than the West Bank, although the West Bank all but bisects Israel and presents, as Krauthammer would say, an existential problem defending the 9-mile wide country. So, I ask again, if the not-quite-precondition is mutually agreed upon swaps, what is there to swap?
After the 67 war, it became clear that the previous borders were not defensible in a hostile world which is why the U.S., if not the world, recognized the need for their alteration.
The problem would be much simpler if the Palestinians scattered through the West Bank would accept the existence of Israel. The PLO pays lip service to the claim, but there has been no substantial evidence that they actually do. The authorities alliance with Hamas does not support the idea, at all.
RCV| 5.22.11 @ 4:04PM
Your last paragraph is exactly what Obama had to say on the subject: "Palestinians will never realize their independence by denying the right of Israel to exist. ... In particular the recent announcement of an agreement between Fatah and Hamas raises profound and legitimate questions for Israel -- how can one negotiate with a party that has shown itself unwilling to recognize your right to exist?"
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 11:43AM
No-wrong-incorrect! As the astute/knowlegable congressman souted out at the first SOU address, YOU [HE] LIE! The harrassment of Israel to stop building settlements, the selective encouragement of ME inhabitants to overthrow certain undesirable governmental dicatator [so they can eventually be replaced by Muslim Brotherhood candidates aka Iran], the rudelessly ignoring the Israelian PM at his previous WH visitation, and the current demand to return to the '67 borders are all coordinated attempts to intimidate/defeat Israel!!!!!!!!!!
martin j smith| 5.20.11 @ 3:22PM
BradU: Even since 2008 is ancient history. With Hamas as a "partner with the PLA ( or is it PLO ? )
and Hamas clear and present danger to Israel on top of all of the unrest in the region--much of which involves Radical Islamic groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood and the basic ending of the Peace Treaty with Egypt and Israel--things are indeed different on the ground. Obama's ideas are idiotic at best but more importantly expose who he is once again. This time maybe those who are open to the truth will see BHO for who he really is.
martin j smith| 5.20.11 @ 3:38PM
Here is a theory about Obama's mor4onic speech. It was not his speech. It was given to him to read.
I have always felt( suspected ) that Obama is really representing certain special interests. For example George Soros and his ilk. He was given the speech
and told to read it. Without any doubt, Obama himself agrees with his own statement but YOU HAVE TO BE IDIOTIC not to realize how it would be received here and its negative effect on Obama
himself. I theorize that Obama is being run by Soros and Company who hate Israel so much that the consequences do not matter to them even for Obama.
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 7:43PM
You can theorize all you want, but it's still garbage.
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 11:46AM
No, he's not being run by Soros, he's being run by his MOMMA, his DADDY, his PREACHER, and the ME Muslim terrorists' organizations funneling money to him and his campaign!!!!!!!
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 11:47AM
PS: Read Denise Desuza's book, which will explain 90% of it!!!!!!!!!
RCV| 5.23.11 @ 1:33PM
Please, Oldfarte, tell us which Muslim terrorist organizations are financing his campaign, and which Muslim sheiks paid for his education. If anyone is a lying s-o-s, it's you. You just make up facts out of thin air.
Tom B| 5.20.11 @ 3:44PM
Remember that Obama himself proclaimed that he is the Lyin King.
irish19| 5.21.11 @ 2:40AM
LOL!
Flee| 5.20.11 @ 4:03PM
This is the same pattern we find when riots take place in poor areas in the US. Burn down the city and the govt will pay you to have it built for you again and give you extra benefits on top of it to boot. Works every time. Obama feels guilty of something and wants to buy friendship. It will cost the US far more to attempt friendship with Palestinians than it ever cost to be an ally of Israel. His policies are the definition of insanity.
Intelligent Design| 5.20.11 @ 5:25PM
Netanyahu said today that Hamas is the Palestinian version of al Qaeda. He is right of course, and not only that, Hamas is the same thing as the Muslim Brotherhood, which the Obama "intelligence" people claim is a benign, secular group. They are completely wrong. The Muslim Brotherhood is also a direct threat to the United States, where it operates via mosques and "charities". Its own documented goal is to subvert our government and freedom. Obama is both ignorant and treacherous.
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 6:20PM
Garbage. Obama in his speech roundly condemned Hamas and their terror tactics and acknowledged Israel's wisdom in refusing to negotiate with an entity that is sworn to destroy it. Read the speech and stop making up lies.
irish19| 5.21.11 @ 2:41AM
You might believe zero, I don't.
Harpagon | 5.21.11 @ 6:00AM
Exactly! Caplan, and all others who have condemned Obama for his speech, have either not listened to it, not read its transcript, OR are deliberately lying. Obama warned the Palestinians explicitly that they must STOP trying to delegitimize Israel and STOP their campaign of terror against Israel.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 5:02PM
Dear RCV,
you're a nice guy and all, but be sure to wear layers when O throws you under the bus.
RCV| 5.21.11 @ 9:05PM
The only person he's helped throw under the bus, Occam, is OBL. As you said, actions speak louder than words. Rationale Israelis -- and I personally know many -- like Livni know that the US, including this administration, is their steadfast friend. The only really new things in Obama's speech were his clear opposition to any attempt by the UN to unilaterally declare a Palestinian state, and his backup of Israel's refusal to negotiate in light of the new Hamas-Fatah alliance. The Saudis and the rest of the Arab world read it that way as did Livni, in my view the most rationale voice in Israeli politics. Bibi is playing to his right.
RCV| 5.21.11 @ 11:26PM
Rational, not "rationale"
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 11:49AM
Yeah, he also say s he for oil drilling, yet his DofJ threatens oil drillers in Louisiana and his Interior Dept refuses to issue drilling permits. That right, BELIEVE WHATEVER HE LYINGLY SAY, huh??????????????????????
Dave| 5.20.11 @ 5:38PM
Mr. Design, you are correct.
They are all the enemy of people of the Judea-Christian ethic.
If you do not support our Jewish brothers, you support our shared enemy. There is no middle ground.
Mark Jeffery Koch| 5.20.11 @ 5:51PM
The biggest mistake Obama and others have made is deciding to put the issue of Jerusalem and the Right of Return off until last. They should both be decided on BEFORE any question of final borders, security, water, etc. Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert did conclude a workable agreement on Jerusalem, and although Jerusalem is an emotional issue for religious Jews especially, it can be worked out.
The main problem and the only thing preventing a two State solution and an end to the conflict has been and is the Palestinians total refusal to accept that the Right of Return must be to the new Palestinian State only. Arafat and his successors have lied to the Palestinian people promising them the right to return to Israel and telling them to save the keys to their homes from sixty years ago. They lied to their people and are scared to now go to their people and tell them the truth. They have convinced their people that they will be able to return to pre 1967 Israel and that will never happen, and because they have not done one thing to prepare their people for the truth the Palestinians still have every expectation of the Right of Return coming true, but it will never become a reality and no amount of Kassam missiles, Grad rockets, busses and restaurants and innocent Israelis blown to pieces will change this.
A real leader would have prepared his people for peace and not entered negotiations based on a lie. Borders, sharing water, Jerusalem, etc etc are all workable compromises, however painful, but as long as the Palestinian people continue to have expectations that they will be allowed to return to present day Israel then the conflict will not end, the refugee camps will continue to exist, terrorism will still happen, and the Palestinian people will continue to be disenfranchised. Yes, Israel made many mistakes but if there had been a Palestinian leader with vision and integrity who was honest with his people this conflict would have ended many years ago.
Intelligent Design| 5.20.11 @ 6:05PM
Mr. Koch: And the UN has been supporting the lie since 1948 by paying billions in aid to generations of "Palestinian refugees" based on the absurd premise that they will one day "reclaim" "their" land in Israel. A UN agency, funded of course to a large extent by American taxpayers, has supported the so-called "refugees" with food, housing, education, medical and cash payments for generations, and currently provides in essence a welfare program for about 4.5 million "Palestinians" who live in more than one country. In the process, the UN has been funding terrorists whose goal is to destroy Israel and kill Jews. Something else for Congress to defund, trimming our federal expenses and debt.
beebop| 5.20.11 @ 6:58PM
He got schooled by someone who wouldn't be coy about his grades at Harvard. Popcorn anyone?
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 5:05PM
Bibi went to MIT and got his undergrad degree there in architecture. He then got his Master's from the MIT Sloan school of Business, and THEN studied Poli-Sci at Harvard/MIT.
In short, his academic background is stronger than Barack's.
RCV| 5.21.11 @ 9:08PM
Bertrand Russell's academic record was quite impressive, too. I thought you guys didn't trust academics. Please don't make us run Adlai Stevenson again.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 11:59PM
Please, run Adlai again---he lost twice.
No, I'm simply pointing out that Bibi is considerably better educated than the Big O.
RCV| 5.22.11 @ 4:09PM
Bibi is well-educated, and a smart and able leader of a dynamic, democratic people. His whole family has sacrificed much for Israel. I admire him greatly. He does, however, have a tendency at times to fly off the handle, and his performace this week did not do Israel's cause a favor. Fortunately, Obama's appearance before AIPAC has helped to stop things from spiraling out of control, and the Jerusalem Post (which I read daily online) has conveyed Netanyahu's reassurance that too much has been made of the minor difference between two strong allies.
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 11:52AM
Yeah, his academic career was paid for/financed by the American taxpayer [and possibly some wealthy ME sheiks as well], and same education now allows him to give speeches by reading a GD teleprompter [some education, huh?]. Second coming of Howdie-Doodie, and unfortionately we are all the Buffalo Bob's to same!!!!!!!!!
Tex Expatriate| 5.20.11 @ 7:31PM
Kaplan's essays are usually good, but this one, I think, misses many points. The central point is this: Obama is twice a Muslim, first by birth and second by adoption. Muslims receive their heritage through their fathers. If they renounce it, they are apostate. Obama has never renounced his Muslim heritage. He says he became a Christian in Jeremiah Wright's Church, which is definitely not Christian in any sense of the word. It is, instead, a Black Liberation Theology Meeting Place filled with people who hate America. Why would anyone fail to understand that Obama hates America and loves Islam. It's been crystal clear a long long time.
RCV| 5.20.11 @ 7:44PM
Your lunacy is crystal clear from these ravings.
Todd S| 5.20.11 @ 10:11PM
Your refusal to look at facts is clear. It is a fact that Muslims get their religion from their fathers and it is a fact that his father was a Muslim along with his step-father. Rev Wright's Church is not Christian in anyway but it Black Liberation Theology stepped in Marxism with of course "Jesus" being some kind of black nationalist who hates white people. Look up the writings of James Cone (Rev Wright's mentor) and tell me that is not the case. I certainly don't think Obama is a practicing Muslim but he certainly sympathizes with it greatly, like his saying the Muslim prayer call is the most beautiful sound in the World. As someone who lived for a time in a Muslim country, I don't see how anyone in their right mind who wasn't Muslim would think that because I found it about the most annoying sound in the World.
RCV| 5.21.11 @ 9:11PM
No one "gets their religion" from their father or anyone else. When people are old enough to think for themselves, they choose their faith. If they think at all. Otherwise, they simply call themselves whatever most of their compatriots do.
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 11:53AM
A lunatic is curable, whereas STUPIDITY is not!!!
RCV| 5.23.11 @ 1:31PM
Did you read what you just posted? Stupidity clear is NOT cureable!
Dave| 5.20.11 @ 8:50PM
Tex, You are absolutely correct. And I would add that all we need to know about Obama is that he is friends with Bill Ayres, no further explanation of Obama's world view and true belief system is necessary. It is too bad that Mr. Ayres and his bride were not sitting on Bin-Laden's lap when the SEALS came to visit.
Nite| 5.20.11 @ 8:22PM
Obama is dumb as a rock about Israel or else, he truly is a Muslim and hates Israel. His behavior is appalling for a US President. Hope he is thrown out of office this next election.
irish19| 5.21.11 @ 1:17PM
Why not both?
post*tenebras*lux| 5.20.11 @ 8:24PM
How long Oh Lord, how long must we, the people put up with this stupid person occupying the White House? Is not the government's purpose to DEFEND the people? How can a Christian support the anti-Christians? Our defenders are hiding because they are corrupt also, clean out the whole bunch of them!
C Smith| 5.21.11 @ 5:01AM
Do not pretend to know the thoughts and intents of our President's heart, but after his Thursday Mideast outline for "peace," it became painfully obvious that the plan as imposed would facilitate a Post-WW2 genocide. Discounting the ceding the fertile West Bank to Arabs and the Negev to Jews, the abandonment of the Hebron graves of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, and most unthinkable, the "forgetting" of Jerusalem, Obama's proposed Palestinian State would literally cut the heart from Israel, and as Netanyahu strategically assessed, leave her an "indefensible" "nine mile" corridor.
Obama was not the first president to "befriend" Jews:
"At the French resort of Evian on the shores of Lake Geneva in the summer of 1938, President Roosevelt initiated a nine-day international conference, supposedly to facilitate Jewish immigration from Germany and Austria.
Very important people were here and all the delegates had a nice time. They took pleasure cruises on the lake. They gambled at night at the casino. They took mineral baths and massages…some of them took the excursions to Chamonix to go summer skiing. Some went riding, some played golf. Meetings. Yes, some attended the meetings. But, of course it is difficult to sit indoors hearing speeches when all the pleasures that Evian offers are waiting right outside" (Rene Richier as quoted in Peggy Mann, When the World Passed by on the Other Side, Manchester Guardian Weekly, 7 May 1938).
Here are the recollections of an uninvited delegate, Golda Meir, former Prime Minister of Israel:
"… sitting there in that magnificent hall and listening to the delegates of thirty-two countries rise, each in turn, to explain how much they would have liked to take in substantial numbers of refugees and how unfortunate it was that they were not able to do so, was a terrible experience, I don't think that anyone who didn't live through it can understand what I felt at Evian – a mixture of sorrow, rage, frustration and horror" (As quoted in, The Evian Conference - Hitler's Green Light for Genocide, Annette Shaw, 2001, Quoted by permission of Stephen D. Smith, Director, Beth Shalom, (Letter 15/3/2000), Perspective, Vol. 1, Issue 1, July 1998, "Nobody Wants Them,” p. 21).
"At the end of the nine-day conference, Hitler had his Green Light" (Annette Shaw, The Evian Conference - Hitler's Green Light for Genocide, 2001):
"Nobody wants them' claimed the German newspaper Völkischer Beobachter after the Evian Conference in July 1938 and Hitler gloated, saying, 'It is a shameful spectacle to see how the whole democratic world is oozing sympathy for the poor tormented Jewish people, but remains hard hearted and obdurate when it comes to helping them." (Perspective, Beth Shalom, p. 21).
After Obama's Thursday Mideast outline for "peace," it became painfully obvious that the plan as imposed would give, Fatah, Hamas, and the Arab League a "Green Light for Genocide."
http://theisraelofgod.blogspot.....ocide.html
Harpagon | 5.21.11 @ 6:03AM
Yet another BS article by a pro-Israeli lobbyist unregistered at the DOJ (and therefore liable for 5 years of imprisonment under the FARA).
Obama has not betrayed Israel, he has only told it that it must return to pre-1967 armistice lines. That's not betrayal. Furthermore, Obama is obliged to be loyal to the US, NOT to foreign countries, and to advance AMERICAN interests, not those of foreign countries.
Moreover, by demanding that Israel go back to pre-1967 armistice lines with minor corrections, Obama has merely restated the official policy of EVERY US president since LBJ until George W. Bush.
John Navratil| 5.21.11 @ 11:23AM
Harpagon,
I presume that you think Israeli interests in the region are not aligned with U.S. interests in the region.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 8:34PM
Writing a pro-Israel comment does not make one an unregistered lobbyist. By the way, I do belong to AIPAC, so I am registered. Blow me.
Clint| 5.22.11 @ 11:07AM
You're A Serial Fanatic Israel Firster Traitor Bastard Neo-Chickenhawk Jonathan Pollard Wannabe Tool Job.
Get Bent, Neo-Chickenhawk Israel Firster Traitor Bastard Tool Job
RCV| 5.22.11 @ 4:21PM
You're a sick, pathetic, fascist anti-semite, Clint.
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 11:59AM
BS! Every prior president HAS NOT demanded settlement construction stop, rudely ignored a visiting Israel PM [also has not given back to GB a bust of Churchill], encouraged ME masses to overthrow selected governments while ignoring those ruled by radical Muslim clerics, AND demanded Israel's giving back captured territory. No one, and no one post November of next year will either!!!!!!!!
Bernie | 5.21.11 @ 8:28AM
So Netanyahu “expects” to hear this from the President of the United States? And if President Obama doesn’t walk back the speech, what will Netanyahu do? Will he cut off Israeli military aid to the U.S.? Will he cease to fight for the U.S. in the United Nations, and in the many international forums that treat Israel as a pariah?
I don’t like this word, “expect.” Even if there weren’t an imbalance between these two countries — Israel depends on the U.S. for its survival, while America, I imagine, would continue to exist even if Israel ceased to exist — I would find myself feeling resentful about the way Netanyahu speaks about our President. …
[Netanyahu] threw something of a hissy fit. It was not appropriate, and more to the point, it was not tactically wise… Netanyahu needs the support of President Obama in order to confront the greatest danger Israel has ever faced: the potential of a nuclear-armed Iran. And yet he seems to go out of his way to alienate the President. Why does he do this? It’s a mystery to me.
Bob Grant| 5.21.11 @ 9:15AM
I wouldn't say he threw a hissy fit but provided barry a much-needed 10 minute history lesson on Israel.
More importantly, Netanyahu provided a lesson to republicans on how to confront this POS occupying the whitehouse.
John Navratil| 5.21.11 @ 11:21AM
Bernie,
Yes, the U.S. will continue to exist after Israel is destroyed; there are some fundamentalists who believe otherwise, but I'll keep this strictly secular. It will also exist once Europe goes Muslim. We'd better hope India doesn't get nuked by Pakistan.
There is a price to pay for abandoning your allies.
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 12:03PM
Israel is the one and only friend in the ME that the USA now has, and it and England are the only two friends of the USA, period. While we traditionally provide terrorism-financing money to ME countries by buying their oil [thanks to Democrats being in bed with environmental wackos and also wishing ficilitating this terrorism-financing], these ME nations are slowely strangling Israel and the USA together thanks to these Democrats!!!!!
Ken (Old Texican)| 5.21.11 @ 9:02AM
Bernie,
it is no mystery at all, if you can read and comprehend English.
Israel is merely a "thorn in the flesh" to our president; an annoying reality that keeps him from having a love-fest and listening to the muslim call to prayer from the Atlantic to the Pacific.
I can hardly believe Americans elected this man by sitting on their butts on election day 2008.
John Navratil| 5.21.11 @ 11:05AM
Ken (Old Texican),
I can't believe the people elected this buffoon, either -- even considering what a profoundly weak candidate McCain was. However, the people didn't sit on their butts. It was the highest turnout, not just in numbers, but as a percentage of the voting-age population since 1968.
We'd better pray that the sillies who had to vote against Bush and for "hope and change" will have nothing to vote for this time and WILL sit on their butts. While we are wishing, here's hoping they are so hopeless that they never vote again.
Ending on a sad note, I saw my first Obama-2012 bumper sticker this week. It was in a work-training facility parking lot.
Purpleguy| 5.21.11 @ 11:03AM
My boyfriend and I were discussing this issue just the other day. He did most of the talking as I had my mouth full but once I had finished giving him pleasure and had wiped off my mouth I told him that I agreed wholeheartedly that Netanyahu was a beast and just had to go. I mean, he's so unfashionable! Oh my gawd!
John Navratil| 5.21.11 @ 11:06AM
You should spend more time with your boyfriend. He needs you more than we do.
Norman Conquest| 5.21.11 @ 11:13AM
Parody alert! It would appear that this Purpleguy cretin has been, to use the parlance of our times, punked.
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 12:05PM
No doubt WHAT you wiped off was....HOPE & CHANGE!!!!!!!!!
Dee See| 5.21.11 @ 11:37AM
Whatever's going on with the faraway Middle East
---it ain't nothin' to the ongoing, deliberate, systematic
and profound betrayal going on right here---and
pretty much across the western world.
Globalist collapsed Mexico being stealthily
joined in franchise slum a-mal-game-ation
with our Globalist collapsing America and
Canada ---NEVER once brought
before the American or Canadian people.
"We are using MASSIVE third world
immigration (largely muslim) to destroy
British culture once and for all ---forever."
-TONY BLAIR
Former PM/Globalist
(Daily Mail sited by Alan Watt online)
We keep repeating it because it is so
the UNDENIABLY the core agenda at work.
Even putting aside Blair and Brown's and Bush's
and Clinton's and Obama's moves and admissions, to say nothing of
what's now public record from the capstone creeps themselves
---this is, by ANY defintion
----TREASON...
dw| 5.21.11 @ 1:57PM
Four more years of The One will be the four years he needs to devastate this country beyond redemption.
e cowan| 5.21.11 @ 2:25PM
Our good friends and allies - in 1967
http://www.uss-liberty.com/
By Philip Giraldi On May 18, 2011
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu arrives in the United States today for a much anticipated visit. ......Q1... Speaking of attacking, you rocketed, strafed, and torpedoed a US Naval vessel the USS Liberty in international waters in 1967, killing 34 of the crew and injuring 174. The attack was both unprovoked and brutal, intended to sink the ship and kill everyone on board. You claim it was an accident but have never given American investigators access to your government records. It sounds like a cover-up and many Americans are wondering whether you will ever come clean on what happened that day. Will you ever open up your records relating to the Liberty?
http://www.gtr5.com/
" On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. The USS Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory of the 34 brave men who died.
The Attack
After surveilling USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly aircraft overflights and radar tracking, the air and naval forces of Israel attacked our ship in international waters without warning. USS Liberty was identified as a US naval ship by Israeli reconnaissance aircraft nine hours before the attack and continuously tracked by Israeli radar and aircraft thereafter. Sailing in international waters at less than five knots, with no offensive armament, our ship was not a military threat to anyone.'
New Book:
"At long last, the book “What I Saw That Day…Israel’s 1967 Holocaust of American Servicemen Aboard The USS Liberty And Its Aftermath” by USS Liberty Survivor Phil Tourney is finished and available to the public in electronic media format..........“On my way back to the deck, I saw the passageways were littered with wounded men. All were bloody and moaning. My shipmates would call out to me and ask me for help. Some of them would ask me, as if I were a doctor, “Hey, man, can you do something about this?” I got to the bridge and saw that Captain McGonagle was badly wounded in the leg but still in command. Rocket and cannon holes were everywhere. Burning napalm was dripping through the holes and into the bridge compartment. I tried hitting the napalm with the Co2 canisters I had, but the fire was so intense, that the Co2 was basically useless. I requested a fire team with water hoses. In hindsight, I realize this was just a waste of time, since the hoses had been shot up like a snake hit with birdshot from a shotgun.”"
Kingofthenet| 5.21.11 @ 2:39PM
So now one HATES Israel if one doesn't let her take over the entire Middle East? Just ONCE I like to see a Israel supporter define what land the Palestinians get for their state.It NEVER will happen.
Occam's Tool| 5.21.11 @ 5:07PM
King,
you want to see Israel destroyed. You've said so.
VBMax| 5.21.11 @ 6:15PM
As I recall, Arafat was given a very generous proposal for the establishment of a state but he refused. (Wasn't finished murdering Jews yet).
I'm sure the Palestinians will get every square mile in hell that they deserve.
Kingofthenet| 5.21.11 @ 10:49PM
Very Generous by WHOSE standards and what makes it so 'Generous'?
Dave| 5.21.11 @ 7:24PM
King,
I don't give a fat rats ass what land the terrorists get, these are the same people that cheered on 9-11 and celebrated when Jewish children were murdered in the middle of the night. The animals can all burn in hell, and they will.
Kingofthenet| 5.21.11 @ 10:48PM
Now you are talking! I could care less if Israel gives an inch to the Palestinians, but don't lie and 'pretend' they do, just tell the truth and say you want them to kill every Palestinian.
Occam's Tool| 5.22.11 @ 12:00AM
No. They don't want to kill the Palis. They wish the palis would stop sawing the heads off 3 month olds.
Occam's Tool| 5.22.11 @ 12:02AM
King,
you are inconsistent and annoying. It is obvious who you really are.Again, Clint, shut up.
Clint| 5.22.11 @ 11:15AM
You're A Slandering Liar, Israel Firster Neo-Chickenhawk Coward Traitor Bastard ,Tool Job.
I Got $ 1000.00 That Says That's Not My Post.
Put Up or Shut Up , Slandering Liar Israel Firster Traitor Bastard Propaganda Puke , Tool Job.
Dave| 5.22.11 @ 8:36PM
Clint - friend of the Muslim scum terrorists.
Dave| 5.22.11 @ 8:38PM
KING DOUCHE- If you do not support the jews, you support Al Qaida, do I have to explain this further douche bag?
Oldefarte| 5.23.11 @ 12:09PM
Maybe you could DEFINE what industries/companies/utilities Palistinians established in the ME, OR are the ones that same palistinians work for, supported by, etc those that ISRAELIES built/established/paid for/funded/pay taxes with [that support Palestinians also]??????????
Intelligent Design| 5.21.11 @ 8:44PM
Suppose that North Korea had launched 8,000 rockets and mortars against South Korea over the past five years. Would the U.S. government urge South Korea to placate the North by giving it land where 350,000 South Koreans currently live, including part of the South Korean capital of Seoul? That would be absurd, right? Suppose that China had launched 8,000 missiles against Taiwan over the past five years. Would the U.S. government advise Taiwan to surrender land to the Peoples Republic of China? Why does the U.S. government continue to call upon Israel to give up its territory to the Palestinians, who have launched thousands of rockets and mortars against Israel over the past few years, and committed savage acts of terrorism against Israeli civilians? The Palestinians, a term which includes several terrorist organizations, overwhelmingly hate Jews and want to destroy Israel. In contrast, about 1.5 million Arabs (Muslims) currently live in peace and security in Israel. The aggressors are the Muslim Palestinians, Hamas (which is the same as the Muslim Brotherhood), and other terrorist groups. The Jews are not the aggressors, and they have lived in the area since 1,000 years before Islam was invented. Why does the U.S. government think for even a minute that Israel should appease Palestinians? Is the United States afraid to anger the Muslims, or is the U.S. government inherently anti-Semitic? Is Israel an ally of the United States, or not?
Kingofthenet| 5.21.11 @ 10:45PM
Well first of South Korea never 'stole' any land, they went back to the borders BEFORE the war. When the US tried to 'take out' the North above that line the Chinese got involved to stop it.
Colin Foy| 5.21.11 @ 9:47PM
Alas we all learn yet again: In this life you reap what you sow.
Former Reagan campaign adviser Ed Rollins had the best line I've ever heard to describe liberal American Jews, "They talk like Presbyterians and vote like Puerto Ricans."
I don't feel sorry for any of them. 40 some odd years of relentless subversive culture war on this country, it's borders, it beliefs, it's Christianity, it's institutions etc. have brought us to this.
PCP Smoker| 5.21.11 @ 11:33PM
Change to decaf. I believe that honors belongs to the US but with relation to South Vietnam not Israel. When we begin to see, and yawn and rationalize, Israeli boat people, then the title will be apt.
Dee See| 5.22.11 @ 12:27AM
"We are using MASSIVE third world
(muslim) immigration to destroy British
culture once and for all ---forever."
-TONY BLAIR
(Daily Mail cited by Alan Watt online)
SEE: Alan Watt 'Constant Conflict' US Army
War College quarterly on youtube ----NOW.
The 'Big Boy's' term it 'full spectrum dominance''
--formerly known as a 360 fakeout.
-----------DO TAKE HEED
mzk1| 5.22.11 @ 5:35AM
Wow, Bernie, you really don't know any facts!
As a matter of fact, Israel has provided the US with a great deal of invaluable military intelligence over the years.
And we support the U.S. 100% in the U.N., a matter that has not always been reciprocated.
mzk1| 5.22.11 @ 5:39AM
Why are liberal American Jews any worse that liberal Christians, whose philosophy, religion, and theology they share?
At any rate, why is that our fault here in Israel? For the record, I've been a solid Republican vote when I lived in the U.S., except for one time I voted for Clinotn after Bush I's "lonely little guy" speech.
And for the record ,the ONLY pro-Israel president since the founding of the state was Ronald Reagan, and even he was fooled a bit by the MSM in Lebanon. Clinton and W were pro-Israel for most of their terms, but somethign happened to them at the end. But Israelis still loved W regardless.
mzk1| 5.22.11 @ 5:42AM
Look, for me the issue of the speech was the word "contiguous", which means that Israel either gets split in two or gets cut off from Egypt. Did Obama flunk geometry?
VBMax| 5.22.11 @ 9:11AM
Don't think he did very well in geography either...thinks there are 57 states.
W| 5.22.11 @ 9:54AM
What exactly is all this debate about? Israel is the only reliable ally we have int he middle east. We put pressure on Israel to give up land for "peace" because we know only Israel has rational leaders that will listen. Are there any arab/muslim nations in that area that we can describe as a friend or ally or at the least, does not harbor terrorists? None. Do any of you believe that if Israel gives up all its land, and has open border policy to allow in any arab/muslim, then there will be peace in the middle east, and no further muslim attacks on the US and Americans abroad? It seems Obama wants Israel to have an open border immigration policy similar to the US border policy with Mexico.
Samuel af Ugglas| 5.22.11 @ 1:52PM
The Democrats are making a disaster of the US Presidency with the help of racism. We almost feel sorry for Obama!
irish19| 5.23.11 @ 12:42AM
No, no we don't.
RCV| 5.22.11 @ 4:19PM
The two lead headlines from this morning's Jerusalem Post:
"HAMAS: NO POINT IN RELYING ON US AS AN HONEST BROKER. Ismail Radwain calls US president's speech to AIPAC a "disaster". Sami Abu Zuri: Obama's comments show US will
"support the occupation at the expense of the freedom of the Palestinian people."
and
"PM VOWS TO WORK WITH OBAMA TO RENEW PEACE TALKS. Netanyahu: "I am partner to US President's wish to find new ways to reignite peace negotiations."
Tex Expatriate| 5.22.11 @ 7:11PM
Obama is the Incredible Shrinking Man. Everytime he opens his mouth he grows smaller and more ludicrous.
DaveS| 5.22.11 @ 8:59PM
The Obama proposal is so ludicrous that he has assured that nothing on the issue between now and election day 2012 can happen. It a non-starter. Good election plan: something he's been working on since the summer of 2010. And don't worry: the people who voted for him - knowing his middle name was Hussein - may well pull the lever for him again. Now, insofar as his proposal is concerned, if you take him literally the Arabs (so-called Palestinians) only get Gaza. Why? The 1967 pre-war borders show the West Bank belongs to Jordan! Has Jordan been clamoring for a return of the West Bank to Jordan? Not recently. King Hussein couldn't stand them, and either kicked the 'Palestinians' out or killed them in uprisings. Last point: now that Hamas has joined the PA and Hamas is a terrorist organization, is it now illegal to give any American money support to the PA/Hamas pair? I'd say so. It's contrary to law. Someone tell Hillary and Barrack. Folks, the student union association is running the only superpower. I'd counsel Bibi to walk away.
RCV| 5.22.11 @ 11:17PM
Fortunately, Bibi woke up this morning and after consulting calmer heads in Jerusalem realized that the Obama administration's positions are exactly what is in Israel's best interests. The Palestinians realized this as well, which accounts for the two headlines in the Jerusalem Post this morning quoted above. Too bad others on this post aren't smart enough to realize it as well.
DaveS| 5.23.11 @ 9:30PM
There is no basis for this statement.
DaveS| 5.22.11 @ 9:02PM
The 'contiguous' aspect is easily satisfied if they only get Gaza. I'd say: go for it!
RCV| 5.22.11 @ 11:19PM
They shouldn't get anything as long as Hamas in its present form has any part in Palestinian government.
DaveS| 5.23.11 @ 9:31PM
...starting with US dollars of support.
RCV| 5.23.11 @ 10:55PM
No argument from me on that point.
Al Redwood| 5.23.11 @ 12:07AM
Please note that in 1956 President D. Eisenhower, promised to keep the straits of Aqaba open, in return for a swift Israeli departure from the Sinai Desert prompting the re-entry to the Sinai in June 1967 because the weak and overwhelmed President Johnson could not keep the promise during he Viet-Nam War Israel was left without oil supplies and with empty promises, forced to take on 5 Arab armies. Thus, demonstrating to the world that America cannot be counted on and its promises are worthless. (Iranian students could agree with this statement?) For 20 the U.S refused to sell any defensive weapon to Israel. The IDF used locally made weapons, (Uzzi) scraps from World War II, assorted French Mirages, Myster, Voutour, Ouragan (training jet), MX tanks, etc. So much for an ally. Finally, after the historic victory President Johnson, let the Israelis buy Phnatoms and Skyhawks. Than came the squeeze with Jimmy Carter, the most odious of American Presidents, (soon to be replaced by Obama the blunderer) followed by a rebuke from President Reagan for eliminating the Osirak Atomic facility, Iraq, and the overthrow of the Bibi government by the impeached President Clinton in 1998, shipping his dirty bag operative, (working out of the Dan Hotel, Tel-Aviv) to fix the message and the polls for Ehood Barak, a failed premier and a renowned Caviar Socialist...as the reader can see the trail is long, the media seldom sets the right context to the events and it s certain that the chain of events will never be truthfully and honestly presented. From the entire lot of manque presidents, it is without any doubt, President Nixon, with strong allergies to Jews who did more than the rest of them to help Israel during its most critical moments.
RCV| 5.23.11 @ 1:14AM
Eisenhower's pressure on Israel and Britain, while at the same time ignoring Soviet aggression in Hungary, was shameful. Letting Nasser seize the canal was the first of many missteps in the Middle East and emboldened Nasser and encouraged the later attack on Israel.
John Farthgum| 5.23.11 @ 5:54AM
And Jews will still vote for him in mass! That...says it all.
RCV| 5.23.11 @ 1:41PM
Yes, it does, because they're smart enought to perceive their real interest, rather than buy the snakoil the GOP tries to sell them.
Benn| 5.30.11 @ 12:08PM
The greatest betrayal of Israel I see made by American Jews(liberal) supporting Obama`s actions.
weddingdress | 7.5.11 @ 4:24AM
The 'contiguous' aspect is easily satisfied if they only get Gaza. I'd say: go for it!