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Car Guy
Hidden in Plain Sight… With Low, Low Monthly Payments
Ever wonder how the escalating costs of goverment mandates get absorbed without the new car buyer knowing about it?
If people could not or did not finance new cars, new car “sales” would probably drop by 75 percent — and two-thirds of the currently-in-business car companies would probably be out of business.
What does this tell us?
First, the current “market” is an artificially created and very abnormal one — like Frankenstein’s monster and just as destructive. It is not a coincidence that the explosion in brands — and the geometric increase in the number of individual models sold by each brand — coincides precisely with the rise in easy credit made possible by no-cost (or next-to-no-cost) money (i.e., interest) and loans stretched out over 5-6 years.
It was not all that long ago that the typical new car loan was just three or four years.
But perhaps the most insidious aspect of the flim-flam is the way it hides the cost of government mandates and regulations from the eyes (and thoughts) of the typical American — making them seem “affordable.”
Or at least, we don’t notice how unaffordable they’ve made new cars.
It’s really quite brilliant, in a Dr. Evil kind of way — like withholding. Many workers never actually have to send the government a check, because the money’s already been taken before they ever even get to touch it. Similarly, long-range financing and low interest on that long-range financing makes the bloated MSRP sticker price of the typical new car seem more manageable because the payments are broken down into monthly chunks. It is no accident that car salesmen are trained to get the buyer to focus on the monthly payment — not the actual sticker price of the car itself. They will ask, “How much can you afford to pay per month?” — knowing that, say, $400 goes down a lot easier than $40,000.
Since most Americans are innumerate as well as impulsive and thoroughly conditioned Consumerists, it’s no hard sell to get them to sign up.
And that is what makes possible the shoving-under-the-proverbial-rug of things like the federal “passive restraint” mandate that gave us the now-common 4-6 (or more) air bags that every new car has and which add — according to most estimates — about $2,000 to the bottom like cost of each and every one of those new cars. Ditto the Feds’ “clean diesel” mandates that have jacked up the sticker prices of vehicles with otherwise-efficient diesel engines by 20 percent. There is a literal laundry list of such mandates, ranging from the minor to the major — but each costs something and those costs are all folded into the price of the car.
Now, if it weren’t for extended-range payment plans, the cost of all this rigmarole would be much more obvious — and offensive — to consumers. More to the point, it would be obviously unaffordable.
Instead of that $400 per month payment on the $40,000 car — spread out over 5-6 years to ease the financial burden in the perception of the well-marinated Consumerist — said Consumerist would be staring at $600 or maybe $800 a month for the same vehicle, scrunched down into a three or four-year payment plan.
And that, in turn, would make it much harder for the government to continue blithely imposing its mandates — costs — onto the backs of consumers, because consumers would simply stop buying cars and the wheels of industry would cease to turn.
And we can’t have that.
Thus, the pyramid scam goes on. The regulatory burdens increase and with them, the cost of the end product. “Finance” greases the skids by making it all seem affordable when it’s really not — and the Dumbos keep signing up for payment-in-perpetuity and wonder why they’re perpetually broke.
The tragedy is we’re still in control and could throw the proverbial switch overnight and then “change” — the real thing — would come. If even 20 percent of people who currently finance new car purchases on the 5-6 year plan chose instead to buy a lower-cost used car outright, with cash money, it’d impose some much-needed financial discipline not just on the car industry — which supinely accepts and often loudly amens every new federal “safety” (and “emissions”) mandate proposed by non-engineer, know-nothing bloviating politicians - but it would also put a crimp on this disastrous living-beyond-our-means train-wreck-in-the-making that is modern America.
About the Author
Eric Peters is an automotive columnist and author of Automotive Atrocities: The Cars You Love to Hate (Motor Books International) and a new book, Road Hogs.
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Appleby| 5.13.11 @ 6:32AM
And how about all those cars that are designed so that no family will be over 2 children -- making the Space Capsule Car Seats so large that only two will fit in the teeny back seat, and mandating no kids in the front seat; and charging $150 a tank for gas for anything bigger than a No. 10 can?
Dollface| 5.13.11 @ 6:51AM
Excellent article. The worst thing that ever happened to this country was when Ralph Nader inspired politicians decided they knew better than consumers what they should buy, and began telling manufacturers what they should produce to make sure those pesky consumers only bought what they wanted them to buy.
SpiralArchitect| 5.13.11 @ 1:40PM
Incredible. Ralph Nader's influence upon politicians brought about the worst thing that ever happened to this nation??
You are blind or terribly ignorant, just like the author of this piece (of crap article).
Why? Let's look in for a moment.
So can I buy a new $40k car from the author for
$400 monthly payments for 5 (or six) years? HUH? $400 x 60 months ( that's five years... ) is just less than $25k - so where does the remainder come from?
Pyramid scam? What? That needs clarification as well. Pyramid scam is a referrence to receiving money without offering a service or product... there is a car being offered for the money, right?
Also alluded to is how people should just buy a less expensive auto and pay for it outright.
You have about as solid an understanding of the national economy as the POTUS. People, in huge numbers, have lost their house, many cannot afford food and on and on. Yet, some how people should just pay for cars outright.
Thank you, I needed a good laugh.
This was just a parody about purchasing a new auto, right?
ChrisC| 5.13.11 @ 6:27PM
SpiralArchitect asks:
"So can I buy a new $40k car from the author for
$400 monthly payments for 5 (or six) years? HUH? $400 x 60 months ( that's five years... ) is just less than $25k - so where does the remainder come from?"
The remainder comes from a balloon payment. If one wanted to actually own a car by financing it that way, a $40,000.00 car would actually cost well over $50,000.00. This usually compels people to trade in for a new one while keeping the same payment. This is what Mr. Peters was referring to when he said "and the Dumbos keep signing up for payment-in-perpetuity." For a more thorough explanation, I suggest you look up "amortization" in the dictionary to see how all of this car financing stuff works.
Bob the Engineer| 5.15.11 @ 6:08PM
If you can afford a $15K+ balloon payment you can afford to buy a good used car for cash. Also they said low not zero or negative interest rates. So each payment includes includes interest and principle which means it would take even longer to pay off the cost of the car.
stmichrick| 5.13.11 @ 8:32PM
Anyone here heard of used cars? They last a lot longer than they used to and you can get essentially the same satisfaction for 2/3 the cost.
Granted that government mandates have driven up the cost of new cars but so has easy money.
Go to CarMax! They will let you return it in a week if it is a lemon!
FastJohnny| 5.13.11 @ 7:01AM
Yes, I hear you on that. Those teeny cars are meant for urbanite or suburbanite/who wish they were urbanite liberals. These little teeny weeny euro-looking go carts can not be used to transport a family, the dogs and all the camping equipment (oops, forgot the boat). They limit our freedom on movement and choice and thus limit our overall freedom. Remember the big deal everyone made when we first got our license's: we now had freedom..from our parents and from having to rely on others. Now, with the little roller skates, we are being forced to once again remain close to mama and papa...or more aptly Big Brother. Limit the choices and freedom of movement and you maintain greater control over the populace. Same thing with the TSA...sometimes it seems less about security than it does about maintaining a tight grip on Americans and their travel habits. Seems kind of an out-there idea, but it has been done before. Wartime Germany seems to come to mind. Checkpoints, "papers pleez!!!!", kubelwagon (only one the populace could afford to use since the government took all the gas). Think about it.
SpiralArchitect| 5.13.11 @ 1:43PM
Freedom. Such a nice term, the duplicity is conveniently tossed back and forth for the suitor.
Be careful when you hear that term.
Pat Spooner| 5.13.11 @ 7:08AM
And with Government Motors (GM) and Chrysler using taxpayer dollars for everything from advertising to new car purchase rebates in another ponzi scheme, the gub'mint is distorting the markets even more while postponing the day of reckoning for these companies.
SpiralArchitect| 5.13.11 @ 1:46PM
Gov Motors is just another misaction of the POTUS that should never had been considered.
You have little or no idea what a ponzi scheme is apparently. Again, if there is a service or product being received for money it is not a ponzi.
Sure, it may be a bad thing, but a ponzi, no - get a more accurate term?
figusja| 5.13.11 @ 7:29AM
This is a perfect example of why government should not interfere in the free market. Where ever government steps in prices necessarily rise. It has lasted this long and will for longer for the sole fact that businessmen will always come up with a way to make it work. Like with the financing for 5 to 6 years. So the increases the government regulations would be easier to swallow. The Dems then have examples like this industry to laud over everyone showing how helpful they(the Dems) are. Sad, So very Sad. God Bless.
SpiralArchitect| 5.13.11 @ 1:54PM
The Gov does not mandate someone finance a car nor the term if financing is desired.
The requirements from the Gov on credit are more responsible, heh.
JP| 5.13.11 @ 7:47AM
I saved 5 years in order to buy something in the 2 year 25000 mile range. I ended up purchasing a 2 year old Toyota Camry for $15000. Originally it sold for $27000. The dealer threw in the warranty and gave me free oil changes for the next 2 years.
PCC| 5.13.11 @ 7:57AM
When I visit the U.S. I rent a car without car seats for my young children because I can't afford and don't see the reason for the massive expense for a 100-mile ride to the family homestead.
My brainwashed family considers me a child abuser and won't drive my kids to the local ice cream shop in my rental car because I'm a social criminal.
"Home of the free and land of the brave?"
Not likely, mate.
Yes we can| 5.13.11 @ 11:49AM
I remember when I used to STAND on the front seat between my parents when I was little. Last time I checked, I'm still alive and well.....
JimP| 5.15.11 @ 7:46AM
It's amazing that those of us who are now geezers survived the pre-mandated seat belt, air bag, safety this, safety that, era of automobiles. I too recall standing, crawling, lying down, climbing over seats, no belts, no safety seats, no 5mph bumpers. It's a wonder that anyone lived to tell the tales. Or maybe it was 70+ million miracles. I also remember when the typical new car could be purchased in only 24 convenient payments. Eric is correct.
holmegm| 5.15.11 @ 4:07PM
Well, yes ... the kids who did that and *didn't* survive aren't, um, alive and posting on websites. :) Let's think this through ...
Dane| 5.13.11 @ 3:32PM
I live in Chile. I am all for seat belts, car seats to three years of age and booster seats to six as the law requires here in Chile. (Although the use of age and not height confuses me.) However, it goes too far by prohibiting children in the front seat until the age of twelve. Stupid. Doubly stupid when you consider the number of single-cab pick-ups here that are exempted from this restriction. If it is so dangerous then children should not be allowed to be passengers in these trucks or the trucks should be discontinued. Inconsistent reasoning. Oddly enough, there is no law that mentions children as passengers on motorcycles.
MATT M.| 5.13.11 @ 9:23AM
I always buy a late model, low mileage, vehicle for cash.
stmichrick| 5.13.11 @ 8:51PM
Amen.
donserge| 5.13.11 @ 9:31AM
If buyers would simply sit down and figure the incredible cost per mile ( purchase price, maintenance, taxes, insurance, fuel, etc.), less new vehicles would be purchased.
SpearWolf| 5.13.11 @ 9:32AM
Mr. Peters, what you say is true. All consumers have a choice as to whether to finance their purchase or not, though. As an accountant, I am privy to many people's financial information. Invariably, those individuals who have some measure of wealth do not finance vehicles, they pay cash. Those who are still "on the way up" buy used, whatever they can afford. Those who have "made it" quite often buy new, but they still pay cash. Consumers who choose to live with perpetual car payments are choosing financial servitude and are allowing someone else to accumulate wealth with their money. Until they realize that, and choose to delay their desire for the instant gratification of a new vehicle, nothing will change. The best advice I ever heard was from a wise (and wealthy) old farmer who said, "Never pay interest on anything that rusts, rots, or depreciates".
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 5.13.11 @ 9:36AM
I have never purchased a new car. I buy used cars and put 40,000 miles on them and then sell them. I have never lost money on a used car. In fact, I often break even or even make a few hundred. I have done this for 40 years.
Over the years even used cars have gotten expensive but the most expensive car I ever purchased cost 11,800 dollars.
By avoiding expenses associated with the government or letting someone else take the hit on the fantasy of a new car, you can save hundreds of thousands, perhaps half a million in a lifetime.
Pecos Pete| 5.13.11 @ 10:12AM
Bill, I basically agree with you. On the other hand my most recent purchase, in 1998, was a new Ford F-150. It now has 319,000 miles and running as smooth as when brand new. KNOCK ON WOOD.
Using your 40,000 mile rule I would have purchased approx 7 vehicles. Thus, there is something to be said for driving them till they won't run anymore.
Kevin| 5.13.11 @ 10:49AM
Like you Mr. Pete I have always kept my vehicles until they no longer had any resale or trade-in value whatsoever. I've bought two new cars in the past 30 years but everything else was in used condition. My newest car now is a 1998 Pontiac Gran Prix and my second vehicle is a 1977 Datsun Pickup that I acquired by barter.
Josh Marihugh | 6.6.11 @ 11:44AM
We rarely purchase "new" vehicles. (Last new purchase was a 1995 Dodge Dakota pickup. Ran great until Dad hit a concrete embankment during a downpour.)
Despite their current money woes, in the '90s and '00s, Chrysler made some seriously good vehicles.
Our 2000 LHS has 217K miles and counting; our 1999 Town and Country has 160K+ and counting. Mom and Dad drive a 2000 T&C that now has 316K+ and counting, and their 1995 Ram pickup (purchased to pull a 5th wheel) has about 220K+ on it.
We do our best to take care of our vehicles (proper maintenance, fluid changes, all that), but we do tend to drive them until the wheels fall off.
Rick V.| 5.13.11 @ 9:38AM
About those "lower-cost used cars" ... would those be the same cars that people traded for new ones under the gubmint's wonderful "Crash for Clunkers" program? The same lower-cost used cars that Uncle Bigbucks removed from the marketplace and promptly dispatched to the compactors and America's landfills?
Ned| 5.13.11 @ 10:29AM
And used car prices promptly went up 30% - yet again proving that the market place will have the last word, not the government (and surely not Barry Bull$hit - "You know, sometimes I even believe my own BS...")
John Navratil| 5.13.11 @ 11:38AM
Rick V.,
Actually, the clunker's engines had to be destroyed by removing the oil and running sodium silicate instead until they seized. That's why used car prices went up.
Dane| 5.13.11 @ 3:36PM
I wonder how many people bought engines from junkyards and put them into the relatively clean bodies of the Cash for Clunkers cars?
Rick V.| 5.14.11 @ 9:30AM
Dane - what a brilliant idea!
KYKernel| 5.13.11 @ 10:56AM
In 2004/5 we were "mandated" into purchasing a minivan when our third grandchild (all local) was born and we couldn't get two adults and three car-seated kids into an otherwise serviceable Buick Le Sabre.
I have always bought new (always family-sized) and have avoided top-end accessories for the most part. Safety features are good by me, but frills not much, like sun roofs (or is that rooves), up-scale audio systems, and GPS (I can get to church, grocery store, and health providers just fine).
We bought a Chrysler van because of the stowable seats. It came with a DVD overhead which we didn't need, but our son (with another three g-kids from AK) thinks it's just great when he visits us in the summer. I remember family vacations when we played the alphabet game (Quaker State, anyone).
MdB| 5.13.11 @ 11:28AM
I have no problem with financing cars in different ways. But government mandates should be repealed entirely. As a first step, at least, each mandate should be amended to require itemization of the estimated cost of that mandate on each car's invoice. To any bureaucrat or carmaker objecting to this elementary honesty, I say, what are you ashamed of?
Al Adab| 5.13.11 @ 11:36AM
It never made much sense to pay interest on the price of a depreciating asset. Government regulation adds about 10K to the price of the "average" vehicle. As to the 0% loans that works since one purchases with the lenders nickel. Nonetheless, pay cash- preferably a used vehicle- and amortize that expense out over five years or so. A penny saved is still a truth.
TMB| 5.13.11 @ 11:42AM
There is another element to the scam: leasing. Leasing lets drivers drive more car than they can actually afford, foregoing an equity stake in the device and effectively paying the hefty depreciation for the first couple of years in exchange for style and prestige. If you check the CarFax on certified "CPO" luxury cars, most are "personal lease" returns. In this segment, the actual buyers are letting the leasees pay for unwanted gizmos, like air bags and emission control systems, as well as the inevitable drive-off loss. I suspect this is why the sale price is perhaps a third less than the new price, and the depreciation minimal for the remaining life of the car. Note that the personal lease is fairly new. It wasn't too long ago that only businesses leased.
JP| 5.13.11 @ 11:56AM
It would be interesting for someone to put an average price tag on all the regulations used in manufacturing an automobile. I bet it would be a real eye opener.
James Solbakken | 5.13.11 @ 12:10PM
What more evidence does one need to be convinced that people got excrement for brains?
I blame the government schools, mainly.
Got's to Have| 5.13.11 @ 2:05PM
people have excrement for brains?
You sound like a dolt saying: "people got excrement for brains?"
COnservative Bob| 5.13.11 @ 12:20PM
I think a careful analysis would reveal that in industry after industry you will find the price of a product increased buy government mandates and regulations.
How people choose to make their purchases is their own decision while some of those decisions area admittedly not in their best interest.
We can readily identify the problem; it is the overreach ever more intrusive leviathan that is government at all levels.
California and a couple of other states legislative bodies pride them selves on coming up with regulations that impact people well beyond their borders.
We must set about dismantling the regulatory monster that seeks to control every aspect of our lives.
Part of that process is sending people to office that will take an active hand in dismantling government agencies and cutting spending. But the more significant and difficult task is to change the way people have come to think of government.
People, friends and acquaintances that we interact with all the time will tell you as you discuss almost any problem “the government should….“, fill in your own blank. We must begin to speak out and tell them ‘no it should not…’ and tell them why. Until we fundamentally change people’s perception that the government is where we go to solve our problems, we will never reduce the size and cost both direct and indirect of it.
If we are to succeed we must become evangelical in this regard. Everything else is just bitching.
George S| 5.13.11 @ 1:01PM
The same parallel exists with medical care. Much easier to pay a thousand a month (or, better yet, have your employer pay) than to shell out 25 grand for a procedure. Medical costs go up as government tacks in one regulatory provision after another.
An interesting thought: what if the cost of cars gets so expensive that certain "demographics" cannot afford the monthly payments. Will there be a Automobile Reinvestment Act where lenders will be forced to loan to people that cannot afford the payments, lest they be accused of red lining? As sure as the sun will set.
Al Adab| 5.13.11 @ 1:22PM
Cash for Clunkers II or just a mandate that all second cars must be a Chevy Volt.
Green Freaks Make Me Poor| 5.13.11 @ 2:08PM
Chevy Volt = $40,ooo
SpiralArchitect| 5.13.11 @ 1:47PM
Currently in the market for a 'new' auto myself. You have made a wise choice IMO
CalMark| 5.13.11 @ 3:05PM
"What do you want to pay per month?" the used-car salesmen, who lived down to the stereotype, asked me, offering an astronomical top price. "We can make the financing work," he oozed.
I told him no to paying his "low monthly rate" for the next eight years. That didn't go over very well.
Then I looked over and saw his kind of customers. A teenaged couple with a baby, the idiot husband ecstatically signing papers on a grossly overpriced almost-new pickup truck. They looked like they couldn't afford to eat, but the dealer probably got them a "low monthly rate." They probably paid until they defaulted, the dealer gets the car back, and repeated the process.
tdiinva| 5.13.11 @ 3:41PM
Another cranky rant from Mr. Peters. Did you buy your house for cash? Please don't tell me that houses are good investments even before the crash. They long run rate of return on house is less then the stock market. A house in a hole in the ground that sucks up money for maintainence and repair.
Contrary to this article, it is not irrational to buy a car on credit. Modern automobiles are long lived capital assets that produce a stream of services over time. It is irrational to pay for it up front. The very wealthy may do so because even a $100 large is pocket change to them. Anyway the monedy class doesn't buy their cars, they lease them through their businesses.
Al Adab| 5.13.11 @ 3:54PM
As long as people keep paying interest for depreciating assets the lending industry will thrive. Do you actually feel that the secondary value in services equates to a return on interest? Buy a used one with cash, enjoy it for eight or ten years and see what kind of money you might save by making payments to yourself. Simple truth, you are not what you drive. It is a status symbol, nothing more. Oh, and get over the class warfare jealousy.
Drunken Sailor| 5.16.11 @ 12:15PM
Amen Al Adab,
Just upgraded from my 97 Nissan Truck with 300,000 miles on it (one rebuilt transmission and alternator) to a brand new 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 170,000. My son got the Nissan and after a new distributor we are now pushing for another 100,000 miles on it. If I made payments to myself once the Nissan was paid off I saved almost $25,000. I will never buy new again.
tdiinva| 5.13.11 @ 4:29PM
Excuse me Al? Class warfare? What are you talking about? I was just descibing how cars are purchased (or not by the wealthy)
The value of a stream of services is indepentent of how you finance it. It has nothing to do with depreciation. Unless you lease or trade automobile depreciation is phoney number. Vehicle depreciation is calculated as if were a business capital assest and then adjusted for supply and demand. If you buy a car and use it until it is no longer economical to repair and operate then depreciation is straight lined on a per mile basis.
If you want the rule of thumb in investment decision making then it is lease a depreciating asset and buy one that appreciates. If you want to use the proper financial logic that fits your argument you should always lease a car whether it is new or not.
All kinds of Brands | 5.13.11 @ 9:51PM
The good thing of the internet is that i usually come across with unrelated to my interests posts but at the same time interesting.
Thanks for your views its very appreciative.
Replica Handbags&wallet; | 5.13.11 @ 9:55PM
nice post ,thank you for your sharing , i'll wait for your next blog.
My friend and I were arguing about an issue similar to this! Now I know that I was right. lol! Thanks for the information you post.
Universities in Virginia | 5.14.11 @ 6:43AM
So where can we as a country go from here? No one has cash to buy a new vehicle and we all want the top, luxury models with all the options. No choice but to get credit.
Pat| 5.14.11 @ 2:11PM
Eric Peters has authored one depressing essay here – none of us enjoy being reminded we’re mentally unstable. Peters has clearly shown our American made Otis elevators don’t go all the way to the top floor (which is one very good explanation for Obama’s election) and a quick review of government mandates controlling automobile design confirms it. Let’s Back to the Future our DeLorean to the 1950’s, American Motors (who?) offered seat belts as an option – but Americans , in vast numbers, were having none of this pay extra for safety nonsense – or maybe they just hated the sight of Nash Ramblers.
Now, did the Greatest Generation’s car shoppers sneer at auto safety? Didn’t give a d--n if little kids weren’t buckled up – mainly cause there were no seat belts to strap junior in with? And also recall these returning war heroes and their blushing brides were supposedly the sanest Americans yet – so let’s DeLorean forward to the 70’s to witness how paranoid we Americans would become – and without anyone realizing our mental state was slowly deteriorating.
Ralph Nader (who?) didn’t personally hate Corvairs, he personally hated large corporations – mainly because in our increasing national paranoia he deduced many of his fellow Americans felt exactly the same way he did – various and sundry modern day prophets of that era, and throughout our nation, accused these Fortune 500 giants of not only being uncaring but actively hostile to us Americans. Corporate Hit Squads were on the payrolls of every large company, back room deals were signed daily to kill or maim us in pursuit of bigger profits – Ralph simply focused an easily manipulated wack-job citizenry on one of the nation’s worst offenders as he saw it – General Motors and GM’s ugly red-headed child – the Corvair.
GM, Ralph said, was monolithic, greedy, incredibly rich, uncaring and in a single minded pursuit of profit at any cost – or so Ralph and his followers fervently preached to the gullible – readers' hint, that means us. The Corvair merely exemplified, in metal, rubber and plastic, everything that was wrong with modern day America – an entire nation, clearly off its meds without realizing the fact, actually believed Ralph’s paranoid delusions were true.
But goose our DeLorean forward several decades - we now find Americans at considerable pains to save this giant, uncaring corporation – GM must survive Obama said and we shouted “amen, brother Obama, amen” – so, now wait a moment here, are we saying in the late 60’s and 70’s Americans wanted GM to die and die very quickly - but in 2008 Americans were afraid GM would actually die?
Folks, it isn’t the government who is at fault here, it’s an enormous group of Americans slowly losing their minds – it’s a population whose marbles are scattered all over the playroom floor, voters collectively pleading with anyone who will listen to “make the voices stop” – face it, our government may be in charge of the asylum but if you want to see who is at the source of all this political insanity then reach up and adjust your rear view mirror so your own baby blues are clearly reflected back to you.
gilmore| 5.15.11 @ 12:45PM
So where will all these used cars come from if nobody buys new ones. If anything comes from what many of you advise we'll become another Soviet Union with no innovation in auto manufacturing (after all, the reason the Japanese have been so successful is because it provided what the American consumer wanted) and a state designed, manufactured an sold car. Not vehicles, but car.
Take a look at Cuba's streets and see your car future if you get your way.
Rabban| 5.16.11 @ 12:39AM
New cars are for suckers, but there is a sucker born every minute. So I don't worry about where my future used cars are coming from. I like the ten year old luxury market (I am on my second infiniti Q45). You pay 5k for a car that sold for fifty. You can drive it straight into the ground and then buy another one and still be spending less than what a new hyundai would cost you to tool around in 4,ooo lbs of Japanese leather and steel.