The American Spectator : Saint Wojtyła

PJ| 4.29.11 @ 7:02AM

Mr. Hillyer,

According to the Catholic Church, to be beatified means to be declared Blessed, 1 step closer towards canonization. To be canonized means to be declared a saint. For accuracy, please change your essay title to "Blessed Wojtyla."

Otherwise, it is an exceptional essay. Thank you.

Alan Brooks| 4.29.11 @ 1:36PM

Shoes of the Fisherman.

Frisbee| 4.29.11 @ 8:54PM

Thanks for the correction PJ. I would advocate adding Blessed John Paul "the Great".

KyMouse| 4.30.11 @ 5:11PM

In the April 23, 2005 edition of WORLD magazine (www.WORLDmag.com), Gene Edward Veith wrote this in an article about JPII's funeral:

"Though the pope was eulogized for all of his good works, the prayers begged God to let him into heaven, calling on Mary and the saints to intercede for him. Sadly missing was the liberating gospel of salvation through faith in the free forgiveness won by Christ alone."

PJ| 4.30.11 @ 6:56PM

When a funeral Mass is prayed for a deceased Catholic, there is no eulogy, only a homily that usually includes statements about the person in relationship to the gospel reading at that mass.

If we can ask our living friends & family members to pray for us here on earth, why can't we then ask our deceased family members & friends to pray for us? We are all members of the Body of Christ, here on earth & in heaven.

Rich D| 4.30.11 @ 10:15PM

Because you are prohibited from trying to contact the dead.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 8:35AM

Catholics share the belief in the Communion of Saints with many other Christians, including the Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Episcopal, and Methodist Churches.

The Communion of Saints is the belief where all saints are intimately related in the Body of Christ, a family. When you die and go to heaven, you do not leave this family.

Everyone in heaven or on their way to heaven are saints, you, me, my deceased grandmother, Mary the mother of Jesus, Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II.

As part of this family, you may ask your family and friends living here on earth to pray for you. Or, you may also ask the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saint Andrew, or your deceased grandmother living in heaven to pray for you.

Prayer to saints in heaven is simple communication, not worship.

Asking others to pray for you whether your loved ones on Earth or your loved ones in heaven is always optional.

Rich D| 5.1.11 @ 2:24PM

But, still, you are not to attempt to communicate with the dead. Asking Auntie Joan to pray for you is OK while she is still living. Why are you non-responsive?

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 3:26PM

"Catholics profess faith in the Communion of Saints. This belief separates us from many other Christians who say the Bible condemns talking with the dead. The Catechism agrees, “All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to ‘unveil’ the future.” CCC 2116 But who says the saints in heaven are dead? The Church says they are alive and living in God’s presence; and Jesus says He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. The ‘dead’ are in hell. We do not seek their help."

Rich D| 5.1.11 @ 3:46PM

"Dead" in quotes? You are playing word games. You know how the word was used.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 5:42PM

No, Pseudo-intellect, You seem to have a problem grasping Spiritual Life & Death.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 7:28PM

"And when they say to you, "Consult the mediums and the wizards who chirp and mutter," should not a people consult their God? Should they consult the dead on behalf of the living?

To the teaching and to the testimony! Surely for this word which they speak there is no dawn." Is. 8:19 & 20.

Alan Brooks| 5.1.11 @ 8:13PM

Margie,
being anti-Catholic is wrong, it is scapegoating.

KyMouse| 5.1.11 @ 8:24AM

Why not ask JESUS for whatever you need?

If you are with Susan and Jim, and you want to ask Susan for something, must you ask Jim to ask her on your behalf? Of course not. You'll simply ask Susan.

Jesus is with me always, and He loves me more than I can imagine. If I need anything, why shouldn't I ask Him directly?

A Catholic co-worker told me once that Jesus is his "stern judge," and so he asks Mary and other dead people to intercede on his behalf. It was as if he had no idea how much Jesus loves him. When I reminded him that the Bible says that Jesus loved him so much that he paid for all of his sins on the cross, he said, "Let's leave the Bible out of this!"

Catholics are taught to give some degree of devotion to Mary and to Catholic saints. Christians know that only the Father, Son and Holly Spirit should receive worship, which includes prayer and veneration, "hyperdulia" as well as "latria" (see Acts 10:25-26). Catholics believe that Mary and their saints act as mediators, but Christians know that "there is ONE mediator betwween God and men, the man Jesus Christ" (I Timothy 2:5).

All of us, whether Catholic or not, need to know that we aren't forgiven through church membership or baptism, but by putting our faith (obedient trust) in Jesus (John 3:14-18). We are saved by God's grace only through our faith in Jesus (Romans 5:1; Ephesians 2:8-9), not through any of our works.

Trust Jesus alone for your salvation--not any pope, not your parish priest, not Mary, not Catholic saints, not penance or indulgences, not the rosary. "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" (Acts 16:31).

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 8:40AM

Catholics are Christians.

Apparently, The Anti-Catholic Bigot Kentucky Moose didn't get the memo.

PJ| 5.1.11 @ 9:47AM

Clint, You need to tone it down a bit. Your defense of the faith is most admirable but this person is asking a sincere question & he/she has a rational mind (if you know what I am alluding to!)

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 3:27PM

Wrong.
Kentucky Moose is a Serial Anti-Catholic Poster.

Alan Brooks| 5.1.11 @ 8:17PM

"Kentucky Moose is a Serial Anti-Catholic Poster."

Agreed, the South is full of anti-Catholics. Part of it is crypto-prejudice towards Italians. Question: why are Catholics worse than mormons, Lutherans, christian Scientists, Jehovah's Witnesses?...etc...

Bill Sundling| 5.1.11 @ 4:04PM

The Catholic Church teaches salvation by infant baptism and obedience to church rules. The Bible teaches salvation by faith in Christ and obedience to Christ. Catholics aren't Christians. They don't believe what Christians believe.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 7:52PM

At least we have a few Bible believing Christians posting against this false Religion.
Where are the others?

Tim the Enchanter| 5.2.11 @ 5:23PM

Protestants aren't Christians; aren't followers of Jesus Christ. They follow crackpots with adulterated "bibles" that distort the true meaning of Scripture. They were predicted in the Bible by Christ Himself, when he referred to those that claimed to do works and preach in his name. He told them "I never knew you. Away from me, you workers of iniquity!" Protestantism was founded by a lust for power and others property, not from a regard for religion. Historical fact.

PJ| 5.1.11 @ 10:22AM

"Why not ask JESUS for whatever you need?"

I totally agree with you. Catholics do in private & public prayer. I usually don't ask for intercession from the saints. I like taking the direct route like you (except when it comes to the Blessed Mother). Catholics are not obligated to ask the saints for intercession not even the Blessed Mother.

Although, I think Jesus would be a little disappointed if you didn't ask His mother for help every so often. Jesus loves her so much. He want us to love her just like if she was our mom. (You do love the woman who carried you in her womb for 9 months? Yes?) Remember when Jesus was on the cross, he gave His mother to John & John to His mother. It was not only an actual reality (John did in fact take care of Mary.) but John in this event symbolizes all of us.

Sometimes its nice to go to a very important son's mother first to ease the asking of the favor or help. Think of the Wedding Feast of Cana. Jesus performed that miracle because His mother asked Him to, a woman who was so "full of grace" & goodness. He didn't have to listen to her but He did because He was a good son to His mother as all sons & daughters should be to their mothers.

I also think you need to look up the words venerate & worship. You will find that venerating is not worshiping.

Clint's posting timed 5/1/2011 at 8:24 am is another accurate way at looking of looking at the intercession of the saints.

Ryan| 5.2.11 @ 9:09AM

I get the argument, but the one thing I point toward is that we are commanded by Christ to pray to God in the Lord's Prayer. Everything else is a little too roundabout in it's Biblical logic, and appears to be more about using the Bible as justification of opinion rather than deriving a practice directly from scripture.

PJ| 5.2.11 @ 1:12PM

Jesus used parables to get his points across. Don't you think that's a roundabout way to get a point across instead of saying it directly which of course He did at other times?

PJ| 5.2.11 @ 1:23PM

What is so roundabout & opinionated about the Wedding Feast of Cana? It actually happened if you believe in the events that took place in the NT? Mary did intercede at the wedding.

I never ask anyone to agree but I just want people to understand part of the logic that the Catholic Church uses in conjunction with Scripture & history to derive her beliefs.

PJ| 5.1.11 @ 12:34PM

KyMouse,
I agree with everything you write in this particular post. So does the Catholic Church. I can write an essay on each of the points you stated not to refute but to enrich & make it more palpable for those who have reason but do not have the huge amount of faith that you certainly possess.

May I suggest to you to read parts of the Catholic Catechism NOT for conversion purposes but to know what Catholics actually believe & why. It's free on the Vatican website: http://www.vatican.va/archive/.....c_toc.htm.

Cosmo| 5.1.11 @ 3:06AM

I'm an orthodox Catholic.
I believe JPII failed to deal with the homosexual crisis in the clergy. He had a mistaken opinion that a Pope cannot replace a bishop: Wrong !
He also was more of a European socialist in his constant campaign against the death penalty. He tried to change 2,000 years of church teaching on this matter. We are all judged by our fulfillment of the duties of our state of life, and the Pope's duty is to discipline the clergy, not to fly around the world like a rock star.
Benedict is just as bad. Two things the Pope needs to do:
1) Publicly excommunicate all pro-abortion Catholics, especiall politicians.
2) Remove all homosexuals from the clergy and other church offices.
Until a Pope does these two things, the church is going to continue to bleed.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 8:22AM

"Greek Orthodox Church
Child Sexual Abuse in Orthodox Churches

Like many other religious organizations, the Orthodox Churches have recently faced a number of lawsuits and allegations of child sexual abuse by its clergy. The Greek Orthodox Church has paid out more than 10 million dollars in sexual abuse settlements and more victims are coming forward as awareness of the abuse grows. "

Dee See| 4.29.11 @ 7:18AM

AS Fukishima is OBVIOUSLY receiving
massive cover-up from the world 'EUGENICS
friendly' media, and has now surged into
being unqustionably the greatest world
nuclear disaster in history----

"The watchman seeing the danger,
but blows not the trumpet,
their blood be upon him----"
-EZEKIEL

Leaving the brain dead, and 'EUGENICS friendly'
among you aside ----what should the watchman,
much less the saint, be doing at a time like this?

WHAT?????

Groad| 4.29.11 @ 10:31AM

Do you drool a lot on your keyboard when you put out this incoherent drivel??

Alan Brooks| 4.29.11 @ 1:37PM

Dee See voted for McCain.

Jeremiah| 4.29.11 @ 3:57PM

Don't be absurd, Alan...Dee See obviously voted for Napolean the Friendly Ghost. I do wish someone would locate his meds for him.

K962| 4.29.11 @ 7:37AM

Dionne of the Washington Post yesterday wrote about this also. I had to laugh how the liberals are hi jacking this event by saying John Paul" favored labor over capital" . Nowhere in Dionne's article did it mention the word "communist". But some how he did fit in the words "social Justice".
Historical revisionism at its best!

Alan Brooks| 4.29.11 @ 3:36PM

Pope Benedict might turn out even better as a Pope than John Paul II; Benedict is German, and Germans are better organized than Poles-- such as in 1939.
Those tanks sliced through Western Poland like a knife going through butter! got to hand it to the Jerries.

Solinkaa| 4.30.11 @ 8:17PM

You obviously are not aware of the September campaign. Poland, attacked in the West by Germany on 1 September and in the East by the Soviet Union on 17 September (two fronts!) put up a fierce fight and held out until 6 October. It never formally surrendered. Germany sustained heavy losses (eg 25% of its air strength) - so not quite knife though butter. But it is the civilian casualties on the Polish side which make your flippant statement so chilling. While around 3,200 German civilians died in the September campaign, Poland lost 150,000-200,000 of its civilians, many of them running from the German troops into the hands of the Soviet Army. The horror of this is, thankfully, unimaginable to most modern Westerners. Hence, perhaps, an odd casual homage to the famed German efficiency...

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.29.11 @ 7:44AM

Quin,
thank you for the links, and for your essay and remembrance.
I can't help wonder if Stalin has asked John Paul for a sip of water yet.

aiken_bob| 4.29.11 @ 8:10AM

well said!

Alan Brooks| 4.29.11 @ 1:40PM

Lazarus is asking George Wallace right now for a mint julip.

Ryan| 4.29.11 @ 8:24AM

For good or ill, the Pope is the representative of Christians to the world, and even we who are Protestants have an interest in a good man being Pope.

JPII, I believe, glorified God in that aspect.

I have some serious disagreements with Catholic theology, and I still yet deeply respected the man.

mames| 4.29.11 @ 7:18PM

The Pope is an apostate role and declaring him a saint is an evil act. NO ONE speaks for the church except Christ and the theology this "learned" man espoused lead millions away from "faith alone in Christ." It may be PC to respect such a man but it is not Christ honoring.

Frisbee| 4.29.11 @ 8:56PM

Didn't Christ appoint certain men to speak for Him? As I recall, there were these Twelve guys... Maybe your Bible is missing some pages.

mames| 4.29.11 @ 9:14PM

No they were appointed to speak OF HIM not for him.

OperaNerd1986| 4.30.11 @ 2:58AM

Matthew 16:19--"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will bef bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will beg loosed in heaven."

Rich D| 4.30.11 @ 10:19PM

That's not what the Greek says. Nobody on earth determines what heaven does.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 9:40AM

"If the books of the New Testament are inspired, "god-breathed" scripture, then the men who wrote them must have gotten their material from God himself.

To extend this to future teachings of the Church is no big deal to God. After all, Jesus promised that he would be with us till the end of time and that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth.

Therefore, the Pope and the Magisterium of the Church can be prevented from teaching error in matters of faith and morals by simply sticking to what is revealed to them by God as truth already "loosed" or "bound" in heaven.

For us, this happens in the course of time, but God is outside of time, so what we learn (and here I would say "learn" means to declare formally since all revelation has been given already) in 1854 or 1950 or at some point in the future is already known by God."

Rich D| 5.1.11 @ 2:15PM

Sure, but you didn't respond to the misinterpretation of the verse. The questions are "What is the source of the revelation", "Is there new revelation?" and "To whom?"

Mimi| 5.1.11 @ 12:22PM

Mames...for Gods Sake, no one declared him a SAINT yet! Blessed is what is happening at the Vatican...merely, that he Is in HEAVEN.
To defend Catholic Devotion to MARY...She has gotten ...RESULTS.. we could go on and on...Believe me plenty of downright BLESSINGS have come my way..I am here to TESTIFY...Hail MARY's WORK.......ALLELUIA.!!!

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 2:42PM

Mimi,

It's Jesus that has gotten the results. He is the One who is risen, not Mary. The Bible is against praying to the dead.. it's a falsity taught by Catholicism.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 3:35PM

Uh Oh !

The Lapsed Catholic, Anti-Catholic Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie is in the building.

"Catholics profess faith in the Communion of Saints. This belief separates us from many other Christians who say the Bible condemns talking with the dead. The Catechism agrees, “All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to ‘unveil’ the future.” CCC 2116 But who says the saints in heaven are dead? The Church says they are alive and living in God’s presence; and Jesus says He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. The ‘dead’ are in hell. We do not seek their help."

Go tell it to Your Catholic Mommy & Daddy & see what they tell You, Anti-Catholic Fanatic Joisey Broad.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 4:02PM

That's the whole point, Clint/Tim*.
You're a phony Catholic hating Christians and the Word of God.
You promote this huge lie.
Go tell it to God!

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 5:10PM

Memo to Crazed Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie: Catholics Are Christians.

Aaaand, You, Arrested Developmental Lapsed Catholic, Anti-Catholic Bigot Broad From Joisey are fronting Jesus, God & Religion to Hide & Work Out Your Personal Psychiatric Problems with Your Catholic Parents on All Catholics.

Go Tell It To A Psychiatrist, Angry Screwball Bigot Broad From Joisey.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 7:14PM

Christian means one who not only believes in Jesus, but who OBEYS His Words.

"Jesus answered him, "If a man loves Me, he will keep My Word, and my Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him." Jn. 14:23.

Mimi| 5.1.11 @ 4:20PM

According to " The Nuns I experienced"....Margie of course the lord Jesus call all the shots. Its just that " Mary" gets first served and has his "EAR" Peace kid we're on the same page. Love ya , Mimi

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 7:10PM

Mimi,

Mary doesn't have Jesus' ear. She's dead. The Bible says praying to the dead is an abomination, so better forsake it.
Jesus is the only Mediator between God and Man, according to His Words. He hears your prayers and only He has the power to intercede.
You'll see Mary in Heaven one day and will rejoice with her then, along with all the saints.
I know we're on the same page in that you love Jesus, but He really does want us to listen to what He says, and not a Religion that teaches false doctrine. Don't you think He's worth obeying?
Love you too,
Margie

Bob Grant| 4.29.11 @ 9:31AM

Thank goodness the beatification will wash the awful taste of the royal wedding.

Doctor Right| 4.29.11 @ 9:49AM

The entire "beatification/canonization" process of the Catholic Church is absurd, to say the least.

In the first place, Catholics COMPLETELY disregard the meaning of the word "Saint". ALL Christians are "Saints"; a none-too-careful check of Scripture will confirm this.

Secondly, JP II was responsible for changing the very process by which Catholics anoint their "saints". In essence, he simply sped it up, and removed a centuries-old process of careful checks, balances, and verifications that the RC Church had always used. JP II actually produced more beatifications (1,338) and canonizations (482) than all previous popes combined!!!! I'd say it's ironic that he now stands to benefit from this very process, but since he's dead, that's not really the issue. (And so much for the "Papal infallibility" of previous Popes and their support for the older process, right..?)

And finally, despite his long reign and his vast army of supporters, any mention of JP II MUST take into account his role in and that of his aides in the sexual-abuse crisis—the most destructive Catholic scandal in centuries, and one that is still glossed-over, despite the efforts of JP II's successor to shine a brighter light on the abuses.

So WHY "fast-track" JP II?

Brian Mc| 4.29.11 @ 10:53AM

Doctor Right,

I'm not a practicing Catholic, but in reading all the above a couple of things popped into my mind. First, any pope, whether good, or bad has no bearing on the deposit of faith. They cannot change it, only defend it. And thank God for that.

Second, compare what happened above with the rise of the Ayahtollah Koemini(sp) and the situation as it stands in Iran today...might be that we could point our daggers in other directions. Just a thought...since I have always enjoyed your posts and look forward to your wit and wisdom on each occasion.

David T| 4.29.11 @ 11:12AM

Brian Mc--Based on your charitable words, you sound like you're practicing your faith quite well.

Doctor Right| 4.29.11 @ 11:46AM

Sorry, but I disagree wholeheartedly that the Pope has "no bearing on the deposit of the faith".

Given the structure of the Catholic Church, that's logically incoherent.

The Pope is viewed by Catholics as the Head of their Church; he MOST CERTAINLY reflects their values, and that of their Church. Since Catholics claim (falsely, but they claim it anyway) that the Pope is somehow linked to Peter and the Apostles, and that this grants him a special, unique legitimacy in the eyes of God, to say that he does not "bear" on the faith is absurd.

Additionally, when speaking on religious matters "Ex Cathedra", Popes are presumed to be infallible. How could the Head of the Church, who speaks with infallibility, NOT represent the strength or validity of the Catholic faith???

David T| 4.29.11 @ 2:45PM

As Brian Mc said, Popes cannot change the deposit of faith--Scripture and Tradition--handed down by the Apostles. Church doctrine, based on the deposit of faith, is expounded by the Magisterium, guided by the Holy Spirit, who can never lie or contradict Himself.

Doctor Right| 4.29.11 @ 2:55PM

Uh-Huh.

So WHY do you have a Pope, then? What purpose does he serve?

And BTW...Tradition is NOT equal to Scripture...Never has been, never will be.

And there's NO linegae between the Popes and Peter and the Apostles...ZERO> That's a myth, begun for the sake of expediency, and promulgated by charlatans.

"Magisterium"...Do you actually believe this drivel?

David T| 4.29.11 @ 4:07PM

Why the pope? Because Christ understood the need for order and authority in the Church, he instituted apostolic succession to keep fools from spouting off and causing confusion.

Frisbee| 4.29.11 @ 8:59PM

I have a question for Doctor Right. Did the Council of Nicea change the deposit of faith?

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 2:34PM

Where exactly in the Bible does it say anything about this "deposit of faith?"
After all, Christians should abide by the Bible, right?

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 2:35PM

No such thing, David.
Scripture, please?

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.29.11 @ 11:04AM

Doctor Right,
I always read your comments. Lots of good thought in them.
Hey, we are all sinners saved by Grace.

...and yes, Jesus Christ anointed us with sainthood by His blood, and resurrection, and none of us can boast.
The man should be honored in some special way. I'm not a Roman Catholic, so I don't know all their stuff, but I do know what brought him to be Pope.

Sir, he went through HELL in Poland and found the courage to persevere. You and I have never been tested that severely.
I say: "Well done, His good and faithful servant."

Occam's Tool| 4.29.11 @ 1:14PM

This Jew kinda liked him, too.

simon templar| 4.29.11 @ 1:25PM

Yes, OT, and many, many more Jews who were his lifelong freinds which he loved and fought with them against the Nazis.

simon templar| 4.29.11 @ 1:27PM

Yes, Ken! Let us not forget his unique and great relationship with Ronald Reagan and their effort to defeat the communist.

Teed| 4.29.11 @ 11:08AM

Take a peek over at George Weigel's article on National Review Online. It addresses these points in detail.

JP| 4.29.11 @ 11:21AM

Doc Right, the process of canonization hasn't changed. And remember, a Saint is a person who we know is in heavan. This distinction may seem strange to Protestants. But, if you remember that Catholics still believe in Purgatory, this makes sense. For Catholics, we still implore Christ to have mercy on the departed. And we pray for our departed under the assumption that thier souls are still suffering in Purgatory. When a departed soul is declared a Saint, we know that there is no need to pray to Christ for thier deliverance. Pope JPII would never lightly canonize a person for this very reason. In many older Holy Orders, the nuns, priests, and brothers still pray for deceased superiors despite thier death some 2-3 centuries ago. Many Catholics still pray for the departed as an act of mercy. They call on all Saints and the Holy Mother to intercede to Christ for the Poor Souls.

Doctor Right| 4.29.11 @ 11:48AM

Wrong.

The process of Canonization HAS changed, and JP II changed it.

John Paul notoriously presided over what wags called a “saint-making factory” during his almost 27 years atop the Catholic Church. He produced more beatifications (1,338) and canonizations (482) than all previous popes combined.

This was the result of a deliberate policy. In 1983, John Paul overhauled the sainthood process to make it quicker, cheaper, and less adversarial, eliminating the office of “Devil’s advocate” and dropping the required number of miracles. His aim was to lift up contemporary role models of holiness in order to show a jaded secular world that sanctity is alive in the here and now.

A substantial share of John Paul’s picks lived in the 20th century, from Padre Pio to Mother Teresa to Josemaría Escrivá, the founder of Opus Dei. In that sense, John Paul’s fast-track beatification is a natural byproduct of his own policies, which have been largely upheld by his successor and erstwhile right-hand man, Pope Benedict XVI.

JP| 4.29.11 @ 12:09PM

Doc, you are wrong. The Vatican has an independent tribunal that serves the same purpose of the antiquated Devil's Advocate. The 1983 Apostolic Constitution 'Divinus Perfectionis Magister does not make it "easier", and the investigations are done independently of the Pope. The Tribunal still requires concrete facts, as well as an independent conanical investigation into the miracle(s) accounted for. You seem to have problems with numbers. Please, give us all proof that Padre Pio or Joes Maria Escriva's canonization process was flawed? What details do you have? Are you accusing the Pope of deceit? Again, you seem to have lost all track on is the ultimate meaning of being a Saint. It has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with Christ's Mercy. When a person is declared a Saint it means he/she is no longer suffering in Purgatory, but is in heaven; he is no long in need of our prayers. If JPII knowingly canonized a person who was not in heavan he commited a horrible offence in which he would ultimately have to answer to Chirst for.

Doctor Right| 4.29.11 @ 2:57PM

No. I'm not. I'm 100% right. It's in my name.

So you're denying the FACT that JP II altered the process (dumbed-it-down) in order to speed it up? Even though I just provided you factual evidence that he did???

The willful gullibility of Catholics regarding their own faith NEVER ceases to amaze me.

skip| 4.29.11 @ 4:53PM

Doc

You are one of the best. Hands down. Your theology is mighty strong, not just your politics, economics, and such. I personally am reeling still from shattered illusions when you revealed yourself fallible by your ardent dis of T.U.L.I.P. some time ago.

No one is perfect. You of all should know that. I exempt myself of course.

Frisbee| 4.29.11 @ 9:03PM

Actually, I seem to recall JP2 changing the papal election process, or maybe codifying it more thoroughly. So what? As the Successor of Peter, he had all the earthly authority the church has: binding and loosing for example.

Doctor Right wants to be his own Pope, and ignore the historical fact that Jesus founded the Church.

Mike Walsh| 5.1.11 @ 5:37AM

As one actively involved in a number of causes, I can assure you that the "streamlining" you speak of did not in any way compromise the integrity of the process. It remains exhaustive, and I have the exhaustion to prove it.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 4:01PM

It doesn't matter if it's all false Religious practice anyway.

Read your Bible. Unless of course you too reject the Word of God.

JP| 4.29.11 @ 11:31AM

"And finally, despite his long reign and his vast army of supporters, any mention of JP II MUST take into account his role in and that of his aides in the sexual-abuse crisis—the most destructive Catholic scandal in centuries.."

Where have you been these last 45 years? The Pope anymore doesn't have that kind of administrative clout that you and many think he has. The Pope, officially is the Bishop of Rome. He is a first among equals with all of the other Bishops in the world. Each dioceses is a self contained unit, which the local Bishop governs and at times rules. Since VII, the Vatican has de-centralized most of its administrative functions. The Vatican no longer micro-manages its dioceses (nor does it wish to). Yes, JPII was at times a poor judge of character. But, the scandals in North America and in some European nations was and is a direct reflection of the Bishops who were ordained to guide them. And in failing health, when the scandals blew up, the Vatican had no idea the depth of the problem (remember, until Benedcit XVI, no Bishop was under any obligation to inform the Vatican of the abuses).

What I find ironic is that the same people who for decades complained bitterly any time the Vatican interfered with local dioceses, are the same people who now place the blame on the Vatican for not doing more to prevent the abuses.

Doctor Right| 4.29.11 @ 11:53AM

Get real.

If you're trying to imply that these sexual shenanigans and pecadillos were unknown to JP II, and that he spoke to NO ONE about them, or that the Bishops around the world don't report to him, you can go sell crazy someplace else.

Yes, he's called "The Bishop of Rome". That's a nice title, but he's NOT "first among equals". Only he is The Pope. And furthermore, if the Bishops were ultimately responsible, then WHY weren't they removed from their posts by JP II??? He has that authority.

The Vatican had "no idea of the depth of the problem"??? Do you REALLY believe that???

JP| 4.29.11 @ 12:13PM

Doc,
Try learning something about the Church before posting. Your ignorant prejudices fool no one. Your knowledge of how the Church operates is thin and full of misconceptions, half truths, and spin.

Doctor Right| 4.29.11 @ 3:00PM

I know all about the Catholic Church. I was a Catholic for 32 years; then, my eyes were opened to the truth.

Your response is typical of most Catholics, who take an ostrich-like approach to the rot inside the core of their Church, who know very little about scripture, who swallow whatever nonsense and gobbledy-gook their local priest throws at them, and who's first reaction to criticism is to smear all critics as bigots, or prejudiced.

Whatever. If you want to avoid the truth, that's your deal. Meanwhile, don't assume that I know less about Catholicism than you do.

Nick| 4.30.11 @ 8:07PM

"[...] my eyes were opened to the truth."
- Doctor Wrong, a.k.a Pope Bigot I

With what? A crowbar?

You consistantly show that you are blind to the Truth.

caroline| 4.29.11 @ 12:48PM

The pope protected and covered up for these bishops, elevating their worship of the institution above their fear of God. Their cowardly, disgraceful behavior should have resulted in mass resignations. Instead, it resulted in shameful, passing the buck denials.

Ted| 4.29.11 @ 7:48PM

You are in fact mistaken. John Paul did not cover up for the Bishops. In fact, it was some Bishops who erred in not giving him all relevent facts. This has been documented in quite some detail.

RCV| 4.29.11 @ 11:51AM

John Paul II was one of the great men of the 20th century. His mark on the world was good and profound, and we were all blessed to have his light in the world. Only the pure bitter bigots could cast aspersions at him.

Doctor Right| 4.29.11 @ 11:54AM

Only the pure and utter apologist views criticism as bigotry...It's a knee-jerk defense mechanism.

W| 4.29.11 @ 12:03PM

You are obsessed with the Catholic Church. Why? Did some Irish boys beat you up or wouldnt let you play baseball? Your responses to criticisms is to say that is a "knee jerk" reaction. given your obsession, your posts are simply knee jerk reactions. Have you seen a shrink about this? it is one thing to discuss intelligently, but you have a serious obsession and are simply a bigot. it is embarrasing to have you on a conservative website pretending you are a conservative, you are not tolerant or intelligent, but simply a bigot.

Doctor Right| 4.29.11 @ 3:04PM

See what I mean, folks?

Because I'm a vocal critic of Catholicism, I'm a "bigot" who needs to see "a shrink", and I'm not intelligent.

What a joke.

W| 4.29.11 @ 3:26PM

With all the problems facing our country you choose to research how many saints were canonized by Pope John. And you wonder why your sanity is questioned. Your only reply is "see what i mean folks" as if everyone agrees with you.
An intelligent person would be focusing on terrorism, obama, the deficit, education, medicare. But your are obsessed with the number of saints. Maybe you should move to Belfast to join like minded bigots, or form your own little KKK group with some of your pals on this site.
Get some help, and try to forget those Irish boys that beat you up and or picked you last for the baseball team.

Religious Criticism Valued| 4.29.11 @ 5:01PM

I don't bother with one of the great men whose mark on the world was a good and profound blessing and light in the world when sanctimoniously condemning pure bitter bigots casting aspersions on simultaneously belonging to the political party that at least cares about human beings AFTER they're born matters.

Clint| 4.29.11 @ 12:07PM

Catholic doctrine:

The communion of saints is the spiritual solidarity which binds together the faithful on earth, the souls in purgatory, and the saints in heaven in the organic unity of the same mystical body under Christ its head, and in a constant interchange of supernatural offices. The participants in that solidarity are called saints by reason of their destination and of their partaking of the fruits of the Redemption (1 Corinthians 1:2 — Greek Text).

Margie| 4.29.11 @ 12:22PM

The Greek text (Textus Receptus says this:

"..to the church of God which is in Corinth, those having been sanctified in Christ Jesus, called out saints, with all those calling on the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, both theirs and ours."

So, the Scripture says that those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus are saints, being called out by Him.

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of
God, these are sons of God." Rom. 8:14.

"But we know that to the ones loving
God all things work together for good, to
the ones being called out ones according to
purpose;
¶ because whom He foreknew, He also
predestinated to be conformed to the image
of His Son, for Him to be the Firstbegotten
among many brothers.
But whom He predestinated, these He
also called; and whom He called, these He
also justified; and whom He justified, these
He also glorified." Rom. 8:28-30.

Best to know what God actually says is the definition of a saint, and who He actually considers brethren, and called and chosen by reading and understanding His own words.

W| 4.29.11 @ 1:33PM

Thanks margie, whenever we need a direct line to God, you are there.

Margie| 4.29.11 @ 6:37PM

Thank God, as these are His Words, not mine.

And Jesus Christ gives everyone who asks a direct line to God.

I only simply present His Words for anyone who may be interested in seeing them.

Frisbee| 4.29.11 @ 9:21PM

Actually the Greek is "Agion". "Saint" is from the Latin "Sanctus". As a title, the word is usually reserved for those already in heaven.

And the bible passage Margie quoted doesn't "define" saint, but uses the word. In fact, it seems if anything to distinguish between "those having been sanctified in Christ Jesus" ("sanctified" having the same root as "saint") from "all those calling on the Name of our Lord". At least, that's the the quoted version reads.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 2:31PM

And which Scripture says they are already in Heaven?
Point to it!

And the verse shows that those who are sanctified ARE called out saints, and it shows that those who he is speaking to are STILL ALIVE!

This flies in the face of the false doctrine of Catholicism that says that "saints" are dead!

In other words, it shows how this false Religion is a false Religion that changes the words and meanings of what God actually says and means.

OperaNerd1986| 4.30.11 @ 3:05AM

I'm not sure of this, but I think the Catholic Church has never said that only canonized people are saints. On the contrary, canonized people are those who the Church is sure actually are saints.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 2:46PM

There is no such thing as "canonization" in the Bible. It is a false teaching of Catholicism.

The Catholic church has no authority what so ever to say who is and who isn't a saint, either.

The Bible defines saints as those who believe and OBEY His Word.

Margie| 4.29.11 @ 12:33PM

add: I should say, and note that what I posted is the Greek Textus Receptus from the Bible.
What Clint/Tim* posted is the Catholic doctrine.

Notice how the Catholic doctrine adds to the Scripture, and seeks to change it and add to it altogether from what it actually says.

We know what God says about doing that.

Clint| 4.29.11 @ 1:09PM

Actually, Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie, I posted both The Bible Reference and The Commentary on Catholic Doctrine.
The Translation of The Greek Text:
"... to the church of God that is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that invoke the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place of theirs and ours."

Aaaaand,
"The damned are thus excluded from the communion of saints. The living, even if they do not belong to the body of the true Church, share in it according to the measure of their union with Christ and with the soul of the Church. St. Thomas teaches (III:8:4) that the angels, though not redeemed, enter the communion of saints because they come under Christ's power and receive of His gratia capitis."

Doctor Right| 4.29.11 @ 3:08PM

"The Commentary on Catholic Doctrine"..???

You do realize that no one other than Catholics takes that very seriously, don't you? And not many of them, either...

Clint| 4.29.11 @ 4:21PM

Lapsed Catholic Doctor Reich Has His Serial Chronic Ax To Grind With We Catholics.

Catholics share the belief in the Communion of Saints with many other Christians, including the Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Episcopal, and Methodist Churches.

Frisbee| 4.29.11 @ 9:23PM

Yes, I noticed some real nice Icons in Westminster Abbey in some photos of the royal wedding.

Those 11th century Catholics sure knew how to build a beautiful church!

Occam's Tool| 4.29.11 @ 1:16PM

Margie,

don't lower yourself to talk with Clint. He is an unfortunate refugee from the Island of Dr. Moreau---a cross between a neurosyphilitic camel and a leprous armadillo.

Clint| 4.29.11 @ 1:34PM

Uh Oh !

The Israel Firster Fanatic Screwballs Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie & Tool Job join forces to take on Tea Party Catholic Clint again.

Let's Review.

Tea Party Catholic Clint, Tool Job & Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.
The Good, The Bad & The Ugly.

Ryan| 4.29.11 @ 2:08PM

How does your language and treatment of Margie and Victor meet Christian standards? Where can you point to either scripture or tradition that gives you leave to be insulting and crude?

Clint| 4.29.11 @ 2:42PM

I didn't wanna kill them with my sling, quite yet.

"So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone; without a sword in his hand he struck down the Philistine and killed him. "

Frisbee| 4.29.11 @ 9:25PM

Clint - you should try to behave like a good Catholic. Not like a 1st Millenium B.C. Israelite.

Clint| 4.30.11 @ 6:43AM

Many times Mrs. Frisbee I spend six days of the week sowing wild oats, then I go to church on Sunday and pray for a crop failure

Margie| 4.29.11 @ 6:50PM

Ryan,

Because Catholics are taught that no matter what they do in this life, there is always "purgatory" (a completely false and unbiblical creation of said Religion) that they will just make a pit-stop to purgatory and then be on their way to Heaven.

So they can hate Bible believing Christians all they want, despise the Scriptures and those who present them, curse them boldly and it is OK.

They are powerless, as they take their stand on the doctrines that "hold the form of Religion, but deny the power of it.

"For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people." 2 Tim. 3:2-5.

You can include the Clint/Tim*s and the pedophile priests of the world in with the above description.

Ted| 4.29.11 @ 7:50PM

Margie, your understanding of Catholic Theology is quite... flawed.

Ryan, I will try to make up for the charitibility factor....

Frisbee| 4.29.11 @ 9:27PM

Yes Margie is quite wrong. It is actually many Protestants who believe "once saved, always saved".

A Catholic who commits a mortal sin is in serious risk of hell.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 2:19PM

Your bigoted mind can only spout Catholic Religion.
If you were a Christian, you would be quoting the Scripture.

What does the Bible actually say?
Who does God say goes to Hell?
Those who practice falsehood. Catholicism is falsehood., and so I would get right with God and forsake the false Religion if I were you.
There isn't a Purgatory, so you have been warned:

"Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and every one who loves and practices falsehood." Rev. 22:15.

The Priests, Popes and all who teach this phony Religion have been warned by God.

Repent and believe the Word of God.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 3:40PM

Look Out !

The Lapsed Catholic, Anti-Catholic Fanatic Nutbag Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie is in the building.

Go, tell it to Your Catholic Mommy & Daddy & report back to Us.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 3:59PM

Look out!
It's the hater of the Scripture and the Word of God!

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 5:21PM

Look Out !

The Fanatic Disturbed Lapsed Catholic, Anti-Catholic Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor- Margie attempts to Use & Forcefeed Her Eisegesis Crap against Not Only Catholics, but Other American Spectator Readers' Religions.

Get some Religious & Psychiatric Counseling Bigot Broad From Joisey.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 6:36PM

Jesus is LORD.
What He says, goes.
Don't like it?
Tsk, tsk, tsk.
Poor lost bitter soul.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 2:22PM

Wrong, Ted.
You spout the usual ~ "You don't know" ~

Actually I know it quite well. As a child, I was forced to obey it by my parents. When I became an adult, God saved me from it's nonsense.

Do you even care what you believe? Do you even care that it's all false?

When confronted with what the Bible actually says, you reject it in exchange for a huge lie.

It's your "choice" but Catholicism can't save you. Only Jesus can. And He commands that we abide in His Word, not what Catholicism teaches you.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 3:45PM

Apparently, Anti-Catholic Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie has arrested development & is still blaming her Catholic Mommy & Daddy.

Wait untilApocalyptic Crank Lady tells you Where Practicing Jews & Muslims go when they die.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 3:58PM

Poor Clint/Tim* follows the Papal inquisition rules on hating on Bible believing Christians who stand on Scripture to refute the false Religion of Catholicism.

He is to be pitied, right along with his pals who do the same.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 5:23PM

Do Your Homework before You Run Your White Trash Bigot Mouth Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie From Joisey.

"King Henry VIII is responsible for the deaths of over 70,000 Catholics including hundreds of priests and Bishops.

Queen Elizabeth I, had thousands of Catholics put to death in England. She ordered that Catholic Mary Queen of Scots be executed in 1587. She had thousands more killed in Ireland.

Oliver Cromwell is responsible for starting the English civil war and the subsequent beheading of Catholic King Charles I, and for the killing of thousands of Catholics in that war of 1642-1649.

Thousands of Catholics were murdered in Ireland by the English in the 19th century simply because they attended the Catholic Mass. The Protestant English redcoats were also responsible for confiscating the food from the Irish people and for leaving them only with potatoes which were blighted and unfit to eat. In the mid 19th century this caused the deaths by starvation of an estimated 1-1.5 million Irish Catholics, and the emigration of about 2 million more. It was a case of either leave the country or die of starvation."

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 6:37PM

Awww, you're so sweet. White trash.. et al.
That all ya got, punk?

simon templar| 4.29.11 @ 1:19PM

DocR, you are correct in many of your statements and are certainly entitled to your opinions of the catholic church and its failings. Let me add, however, that this corruption can be found in all organized religion and institutions and that these institutions being man made are suceptible to great failures. I do not judge this man solely on this church and its failings but how he tried to live his life and the contributions that he made...particulary to the cause of freedom which all conservatives fight for daily. In this he excelled and am grateful for his efforts. This is how I believe one should judge a man and remember him.

Doctor Right| 4.29.11 @ 3:26PM

I don't disagree. The key word is "organized".

And this problem doesn't just apply to Catholicism. Any Church with thousands and thousands (or millions and billions) of members and a strong, centralized governing body is prone to errors that spread far and wide enough to ultimately corrupt the entire Church. That's not to say that the individual congregants are themselves corrupt or evil, only that what's being taught and learned is scripturally corrupt.

There are no examples from scripture to support the current structure and doctrines of the Catholic Church. Churches referred to in the New Testament tended to be small, local, autonomous Churches that, although they may have depended on their fellow congregations in other cities for support and advice, did NOT depend on them for leadership.

David T| 4.29.11 @ 4:30PM

Churches in the NT were governed by bishops, priests, and deacons. You could look it up. As the Church grew, the Bishop of Rome--the seat of St. Peter--grew in importance. All the early bishops, including those at Antioch, Jerusalem, and Alexandria, deferred to Rome and looked there for guidance. Rome was "first among equals." Even St. Augustine, the great Bishop of Hippo and towering intellect of the first millennium of the Church, sought the approval of Rome before publishing the NT canon after the Council of Carthage.

Frisbee| 4.29.11 @ 9:30PM

So DR thinks Jesus was wrong to organize a church?

So Paul and Peter and James wrote letters to churches which "did NOT depend on them for leadership."?

David T| 4.29.11 @ 10:02AM

Ryan--As a former evangelical, I completely understand your ambivalence toward the papacy and your disagreements with Catholic theology. It was John Paul II's sublime Christian example, however, that started me on the road to conversion and Benedict XVI's masterful reconciliation of faith and reason that finally brought me home.

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.29.11 @ 1:05PM

Margie,
thank you for the scriptural reference. I knew it, but failed to write it here.

Did you see my posts above?

Margie| 4.29.11 @ 6:58PM

You're welcome, Ken and yes I saw your above posts.

You said we're all sinners saved by Grace, however some are not. Who despises the Scripture and them that speak it? These are no Christians saved by Grace!

As to the "Pope"~ I have one question? Why did he never repent for setting himself up as God to the people, allowing himself to be bowed to and the entire insanity of the rest of it?

Any grown man should know better that reads the Bible that this is not the will of God.

There is no such thing in the Bible, none of it. It is an entirely false Religion. Jesus says that unless we continue in HIS WORD we cannot be His disciples. (Jn. 8:31).

Being a nice guy does not a disciple make.

Frisbee| 4.29.11 @ 9:37PM

Margie wrote: "There is no such thing in the Bible, none of it."

The Successor of Peter cannot repent of the commission of Jesus. Peter did not "set himself up as God to the people". Jesus set Peter up as the binder and looser, and gave him the keys of the kingdom of heaven.

You know it's in Matthew 16. How can you lie outright by writing "There is no such thing in the Bible, none of it."?

Lying is a sin, Margie. Stop with the crazy sweeping negative statements (based on your ignorance of scripture?).

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 2:12PM

There is NO such thing in the Bible, that is correct.
There is NO Popery in the Bible~ it is false and an utter lie. Anyone can pick up the Bible and read it.
To allow others to bow down and worship you is SIN. It is against God.
And I wasn't talking about Peter, so I'd advise you to quit lying!
Liars go to Hell.
There is NO such thing as Purgatory in the Bible.
The False Catholic Religion has created all of this and it is disgusting!

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 7:31PM

"And when they say to you, "Consult the mediums and the wizards who chirp and mutter," should not a people consult their God? Should they consult the dead on behalf of the living?

To the teaching and to the testimony! Surely for this word which they speak there is no dawn." Is. 8:19 & 20.

Brian Mc| 4.29.11 @ 11:19PM

Margie,

I believe that when you salute an officer, you salute the rank, not the officer.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 2:12PM

Brian,

I will salute a soldier, but never would I mistake him for Jesus.
Nice try.

simon templar| 4.29.11 @ 1:06PM

A few years ago I stumbled over a movie made about his life and became very interested in verifying that this movie presentation was accurate in it's portray. I am not typically interested in Popes or the catholic church. So, I obtained a few biographical books on his life and read them. I was stunned to discover that it was all true. The man led an incredible life. His relationship with Ronald Reagan in their effort to fight communism was amazing. His intelligence, courage, and fearlessness in fighting fascist and communist truly admirable. Great article, Quin!

bob alou| 4.29.11 @ 2:17PM

Speaking as a Southern Baptist Minister, I disagree whole-heartedly with the idea of making men into Saints believing the issue to be settled in
1Ti 2:5-6 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." However, I am willing to entertain the idea of JPII for Sainthood if the RCC will also beatify Ronald Reagan, and (may the time of her passing be long delayed) Margaret Thatcher.

David T| 4.29.11 @ 2:55PM

Saints are not mediators in the sense of mediating our salvation, as Christ did on the Cross of Calvary. The saints in heaven are intercessors for us. It's called the Communion of Saints. You believe the Apostles' Creed, right?

bob alou| 4.29.11 @ 10:44PM

Justify that scripturally.

David T| 4.30.11 @ 12:07AM

Ah, bob alou, surely not every belief or doctrine is spelled out in black and white, is it? Did God not give us the ability to infer from the text, to reason from the facts? Did Jesus not say God is not the God of the dead, but of the living? Are we not surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses? For witnesses to be witnesses, are they not required to be alive, not dead--awake, not sleeping? Open your eyes, bob alou, and see what you've been missing.

bob alou| 4.30.11 @ 1:35AM

Just as I thought. You can't. The issues that Luther nailed to the church house door at Wittenberg remain unresolved by a church that equates the (man-made) tradition of the church as equal or above the clear reading of scripture. You cannot infer the veneration of the saints without ignoring Christ's teaching and a good deal, if not all, of the rest of the New Testament as well. I have eyes wide open and an open mind. It is your lack of scriptural evidence that remains missing.

David T| 4.30.11 @ 9:52AM

Along with my point about the difference between mediation and intercession, there's something called the Counter Reformation that you also missed. Luther's 95 theses, which boiled down amounted to about 9.5 theses, dealt primarily with the practice of selling indulgences. The Church addressed those areas that needed to be addressed and changed its sinful practices.

Rich D| 5.1.11 @ 2:04PM

No all of them - they still have purgatory, which is what the indulgences were for. When you are dead, it is too late.

Doctor Right| 4.29.11 @ 3:28PM

Bob, you know as well as I do that Catholicism does NOT rely too heavily on what's written in the Bible for instruction. They can't do that AND justify Catholicism at the same time.

Clint| 4.29.11 @ 4:16PM

Catholics share the belief in the Communion of Saints with many other Christians, including the Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Episcopal, and Methodist Churches.

Ted| 4.29.11 @ 7:54PM

"Bob, you know as well as I do that Catholicism does NOT rely too heavily on what's written in the Bible for instruction. They can't do that AND justify Catholicism at the same time."

Many of our Evangelical brethren who have held the same belief, reversed themselves after thoroughly researching the subject.

bob alou| 4.30.11 @ 2:21AM

Who?

florin| 4.29.11 @ 3:58PM

I have tremendous love and respect for Pope John Paul but Gingrich is so sullied that i beleive he used Pope John Paul just as he used his ill wives - for his own obsessive self aggrandizement ... and Callista was having sex with him while he was married - don't trust either one of them

Ken| 4.29.11 @ 5:40PM

This says it all:

http://www.remnantnewspaper.co.....cation.htm

Kingofthenet| 4.29.11 @ 5:59PM

A man hears a weather report that there is a flood coming. His neighbors leave, but he refuses, saying "God will save me." The waters rise and the man goes to the second story of his house. A man in a row boat comes by and offers to get him out. The man refuses, saying "God will save me." The waters rise even higher and the man climbs onto the roof of his house. A rescue helicopter comes by and see's him. They lower a ladder to him to get him out, but he refuses, saying "God will save me." The waters rise above his house and he drowns. When he goes to heaven and stands before God, he asks, "God, why didn't you save me?"
God says: "I sent you a weather report, a guy in a row boat, and a helicopter. What more do you want from me?"

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.29.11 @ 8:34PM

King of thenet,
No.............God said to the man: "You stupid man! I still had some tasks for you on earth. Think about those failures for a couple of thousand years!"

Dee See| 4.29.11 @ 11:17PM

---And just in the few hours since
"---aw and the skies falling in Alabama
-yuk yuk!" ---seems in fact 300 people
did die in Alabama.

MEANWHILE, Fukishima continues to spew
and will for at least the next 10 MONTHS ---at this same
rate.

-----------------------That IS kind of the ongoing
headline story.

NOW, back to those Rockefeller meds, Bill Gates
'eugenics friendly' injections and, as ever, those
Yuppie giggles as -----YOU ARE BEING DESTROYED.

Deacon Jim Stagg| 4.29.11 @ 11:26PM

Thank you for kind and telling words.

jd| 4.30.11 @ 8:15AM

John Paul II lived his life with such grace, humility, courage and fine example that it was said that you feel the presence of God when he prayed. He has done so much good not just for the Catholic faith but for humanity that he deserves to be considered a saint. Dr. Right, if you have read ANY authoritative accounts of JPII, you would have utter respect for him, and not let your deep-seated anger at the Church cause you to be blind to the good of the man. He was NOT aware of the breadth of the sexual abuses in the Church, and he was distraught at the failings of some priests, but that has NOTHING to do with Church Doctrine. It is ironic that his beatification happens to fall on the day of Divine Mercy, May 1, long a day of "celebration" in the Communist world. It was because of this great man's leadership that communism in Eastern Europe fell. I for one am proud to be a Catholic and proud to be Polish.

Kingofthenet| 4.30.11 @ 9:06AM

I think 'beatification's' requirement that the body doesn't show 'signs of decay' is just plain creepy, you pump up a dead body with enough preservatives and NOTHING will rot, maybe we should 'beatify' Lenin or a Twinkie?

PJ| 4.30.11 @ 9:31AM

The body not showing signs of decay is also a bit creepy for me too on a superficial level. Fortunately, it's not a requirement for beatification and canonization.

Richard Baker| 4.30.11 @ 9:10AM

jd:
Good message. I agree with your sentiments regarding John Paul II. His entire life was a testament to his faith in God, Poland, and his fellow man. The critics didn't have to contend with the Nazis and then the Communists both of which were eternally hostile to the Church. May he Rest in Peace.

Kingofthenet| 4.30.11 @ 9:28AM

If I uncovered a long dead person who's body didn't decay, I'd be more inclined to impale their heart with a wooden stake, than to honor them, but that's just me....

Clint| 4.30.11 @ 11:06AM

Leave Larry King alone.

skip| 4.30.11 @ 3:29PM

Vampires are more believeable and realistic than Jesus Christ, a historical human crucified dead who at least a dozen other historical figures insisted had spoken to them, walked with them, eaten with them, and been touched by them, these occurring after the crucifixion, which they insisted had occurred even when threatened with their own crucifixions, even when offered life and freedom if they would just refute these claims or just plain lie about it in public, and were all, every one, crucified themselves for insisting to the very end these things occurred after Christ's crucifixion.

I predict some very eye opening relevations to say the least are in your future. Good luck with that.

I also predict if just you and I were alone in a room I could get you to swear, in less than twenty four hours, with all the sincerity you could muster, that every single thing I just stated was by God true.

Kingofthenet| 4.30.11 @ 4:50PM

You and I have different interpretations of the word 'Historical'. Truly Historical figures need more than just a Fanboy account of ones existence. Just like how NONE of the VERY chatty Egyptians EVER make mention of Moses or Jewish slaves, not to mention loss of their Army.If a story about a Bronze Age man with NO Boat building skills building the LARGEST wooden boat in the history of Man and making it so well that NO other boats could survive the storm sounds plausible to you...Well I got a Bridge to sell you.

skip| 4.30.11 @ 6:02PM

I also predict some time in the future your eyes will be opened to the revelation your response ignored the crucifixions of a dozen or so individuals confirmed historically by accounts independent of either testament of the Bible.

vivian noronha| 4.30.11 @ 9:54AM

Pope John Paul 11,was sent by Jesus to lead his church when he was most needed,just as the present Holy Father is another godsend.Pope JP11 had something electrifying in his person.All those who came in contact with him felt this magnetic radiation that flowed in his very veins God be praised.
The catholic church has now to study Pope John Paul 11 more fully in order to meet the challenge from the secular west whose governments are killing every mention of christianity and the muslim world that is creating more myrtyrs of common christiansPope
JP11 will help from heaven..

Kingofthenet| 5.1.11 @ 11:44AM

Well Skip, I take comfort in the FACT that IF I am wrong, and there is a vengeful God, I will be in the same place as 80% of Humans that have EVER walked the Earth. I guess you just like to lick boots, but it isn't for me. i like to believe EVEN if there IS a God, he would realize that his presence is VERY debatable given the lack of evidence.YOU think you will be rewarded for your Faith, I believe I will be rewarded for my REASON.

The Grey Piper| 5.1.11 @ 2:43PM

Let's ignore the trolls. Feeding trolls is like feeding park pigeons -- it only encourages them and makes them bolder. And they still circle back and shht on your head.

skip| 5.2.11 @ 5:45PM

I also predict some time in the future your eyes will be opened to the revelation my faith is backed by my reason which in part acknowledges at least a dozen individuals independently historically confirmed from the Bible crucified for insisting they had witnessed another independently confirmed individual walking, talking, eating, and touching after being crucified, that your ability to reason has failed to remotely recognize this, and that your faith will cause you to experience much worse than boot licking forever while I'll be treated as godlike forever, if you are wrong about your faith based on your reason. Good luck with that.

W| 5.1.11 @ 12:49PM

After reading the Bible zombies, I am having some respect for atheists.
If an atheist wanted to post comments to show how narrow minded and intolerant, he could do no better than Marge, Alou (not Felipe,Jesus,or Matty), Dr. Right (must be a chiropracter). These people have read their version of the Bible, and have a direct line to God, and know exactly what God means and wants. They can quote some Bible verse and believe it justifies whatever they are thinking. Of course, each one believes they have the truth. They are little mullahs, and would love to issue fatwas.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 2:14PM

You're projecting again, W.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 3:49PM

You're Nuts again/still Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 3:56PM

The Papal snake inquisitor crawls out from under his rock once again to accuse the Christian (Bible believing) of insanity!

Straight out of the book of Martyrs.
Read Martyr's Mirror to see how the Papals tortured and killed Bible believing Christians and branded them "insane".

The father of lies is pleased with you.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 5:31PM

Asked & Answered, Selective Memory White Trash Bigot Broad From Joisey, Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.

"King Henry VIII is responsible for the deaths of over 70,000 Catholics including hundreds of priests and Bishops.

Queen Elizabeth I, had thousands of Catholics put to death in England. She ordered that Catholic Mary Queen of Scots be executed in 1587. She had thousands more killed in Ireland.

Oliver Cromwell is responsible for starting the English civil war and the subsequent beheading of Catholic King Charles I, and for the killing of thousands of Catholics in that war of 1642-1649.

Thousands of Catholics were murdered in Ireland by the English in the 19th century simply because they attended the Catholic Mass. The Protestant English redcoats were also responsible for confiscating the food from the Irish people and for leaving them only with potatoes which were blighted and unfit to eat. In the mid 19th century this caused the deaths by starvation of an estimated 1-1.5 million Irish Catholics, and the emigration of about 2 million more. It was a case of either leave the country or die of starvation.

Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie Is Working Out Her Arrested Developmental Psychiatric Problems with Her Catholic Mommy & Daddy, On The Rest Of Us.

Take Two Shock Treatments & Call Sybil In The Morning.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 6:40PM

Aww, so sweet, once again.

I'm sure you lead many to Christ and have done so over the years, hmm?

Just what do you lead them to?

Hate and bitterness, and the same Hell that you are born from and are going to.

I said nothing about individual Catholics being led astray.
I am saying that the doctrines of the Catholic church are an ABOMINATION.

Exactly producing your hatefulness toward Bible believing Christians.

Poor soul.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 7:17PM

There It Is.
I stand up to Blatant Hypocrite Bigots, like You White Trash Joisey Broad, Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.

I'm Saying , God views Your Disgusting Bigotry , as an Abomination.

I just allow You to expose Your Blatant Bigotry at American Spectator.

Soulless Soul.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 7:20PM

No,

I honor God by taking my stand with Him against false doctrine and in the face of utter scorn and contempt!

You are powerless and have no zero zip nada ability to "allow" me or anyone to do anything.

To God be the Power, Honor and Glory.
Amen.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 7:57PM

No!
God doesn't stand with Blatant White Trash Joisey Bigots, like You, Anti-Catholic Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.
Obviously, I don't need much power to allow You to expose Your Disgusting Bigotry Repeatedly on American Spectator.
You do that, with little help, all by Yourself, Anti-Catholic apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.
See A Religious Councilor & A Psychiatrist.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 8:10PM

What you are calling disgusting is God.

I stand on His Words and have quoted them, as always.

It really isn't me you are scorning.

The Grey Piper| 5.1.11 @ 2:41PM

Unbelievable. The Catholic - bashing is an embarrassment. How bout all you tools have a nice hot cup of STFU?

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 2:56PM

Uh, sorry piper guy~ As far as I can see, the Papal persecutions ended some time ago, though they are alive and well in spirit.
Too bad you have no respect for the Word of God and worship your false Religion, instead.
Christians~ that is~ Bible believing ones ~ will never STFU.
But God is going to certainly shut the mouths of all those who choose to worship a lie.

"For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths." 1 Tim. 4:3 & 4.

Rich D| 5.1.11 @ 3:50PM

Who is bashing? Do debates trouble you?

Rich D| 5.1.11 @ 3:55PM

And you might want to go back and see the the personal attacks are coming from Clint.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 5:48PM

I don't extend much courtesy to Anti-Catholic Agendists.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 6:41PM

You spit in the face of the Word of God.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 7:09PM

You, Apocalyptic Crank Lady Bigot Broad, Spit in The Face Of God.

See A Religious Councilor & A Psychiatrist.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 7:18PM

No, I bow before him on my knees every single day.
You bow your knee to Baal.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 8:06PM

You Bow To Your Own Bigotry, Anti-Catholic Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.

Interesting, that You Use the Semitic term "Baal" .

Now, tell all the Practicing Jews & Muslims where You say they go,when they die, White Trash Joisey Bigot.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 8:08PM

What isn't interesting is your vileness.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 8:14PM

What's Interesting Is Your Disgusting Attempt To Front God For Your White Trash Joisey Broad Bigotry, Apocalyptic Crank lady Victor-Margie.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 10:30PM

"If a man returns evil for good, evil will not depart from his house." Prov. 17:13.

Rich D| 5.1.11 @ 11:30PM

It appears that you don't extend any courtesy to anybody. You also have no points to make, and capitalizing the first letters of words shows that you have more time than talent.

Kingofthenet| 5.1.11 @ 3:54PM

Well if it makes you Feel better, the Protestants, Jews, Muslims and ALL other Religions are JUST as wrong as Catholics.

Rich D| 5.1.11 @ 3:59PM

That's logically unsupportable. At any rate, we are not rewarded - it is grace. You might NOT want to learn whereof you speak - it will ruin your reputation here.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 3:56PM

The Lapsed Catholic, Serial Anti-Catholic Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie of The Church Of Victor-Margie got an Arrested Developmental Ax to Grind, because Her Catholic Mommy & Daddy took her to Church with them.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 4:04PM

Wrong, Clint/Timmy*.
You've got an axe to grind with the Word of God!

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 5:35PM

You're A Slandering Liar, White Trash Bigot Broad From Joisey Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.

I got an Ax To Grind With Anti-Catholic Scum Like You & Your Eisegesis Crap.

God has Your Number. Bigot Scum.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 6:47PM

Poor soul.
But I don't pity you,
I look forward to the Day He returns.

"Hear the word of the LORD, you who tremble at His Word: "Your brethren who hate you and cast you out for My Name's sake have said, 'Let the LORD be glorified, that we may see your joy'; but it is they who shall be put to shame.
"Hark, an uproar from the city! A voice from the temple! The voice of the LORD, rendering recompense to his enemies!" Is. 66:5 & 6.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 7:06PM

Soulless Soul.
I look Forward to the Day God Calls You Out For Your Hypocritical Bigotry.

Now, tell all the Practicing Jews & Muslims,where You say they Go, when they die Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie, Joisey Bigot Broad.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 7:16PM

One isn't a bigot~ the fave word used against Bible believing Christians~ for despising false Religion.

Since God also HATES false Religion I am not worried. I know Whom I serve.

I tremble at His Word.

You curse it!

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 7:49PM

You're A Bigot, Who Fronts Religion, As An Excuse To Carry Out Your Nasty Ass Bigotry.

God Loves All His Creatures, Hypocritical Anti-Catholic Bigot Crank Lady Victor-Margie..
Even Your Bigoted Fat Ass.

See A Religious Counselor & A Psychiatrist.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 8:06PM

Wrong.
Read what the Bible says instead of your Religion.
God hates those who hate Him.
He also says He hates those who Hate His own.
He also says He will throw you into Hell for it.
Your cursing and bitterness and lies will get you to Hell.
Lotsa luck!

"I love those who love Me, and those who seek Me diligently find Me." Pro. 8:17

"For he who finds Me finds life and obtains favor from the LORD;
but he who misses Me injures himself; all who hate Me love death." Pro. 8:35 & 36.

"I will not set before my eyes anything that is base. I hate the work of those who fall away; it shall not cleave to me." Ps. 101:3.

"Any one who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." 1 Jn. 3:15.

See the Word of God.

Or else burn in Hell.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 8:46PM

Wrong Anti-Catholic Fraud Hypocrite White Trash Bigot , Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie
ROMANS 5:6-8 NKJ
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 10:31PM

Then repent, and OBEY the Word of God.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 11:06PM

You're The Disgusting Hypocrite White Trash Bigot ,Who needs to work on your Own Sorry Bigot Ass Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.

Take That Big Ole Plank Outta Your Own White Trash Bigot Broad Eye.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 10:37PM

And you dare and say that the Words of God are wrong?
Those are His Words, and once again, you choose to reject them.
You cannot accept the parts of the Bible that appeal to you and reject the rest of it.
That is true hypocrisy.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 11:01PM

Ha, Ha, H, Ha.
Catholic Clint says, " God Loves All His Creatures, Hypocritical Anti-Catholic Bigot Crank Lady Victor-Margie..
Even Your Bigoted Fat Ass.

Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor- Margie's Response."Wrong."

Plastic Hypocrite Bigot Phoney Sorry Ass Bigot, Anti-Catholic Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie. Attempted To Ignore ROMANS 5:6-8 NKJ
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

You're An Exigesis Imbecile.

See A Religious Counselor And A Psychiatrist.

Margie| 5.2.11 @ 1:40AM

Keep cursing your way straight to Hell, Clint/Tim*.

What's really sick is how they band together and accuse of hate!

Are they that blind that they actually don't see their own hatred on display?

No, they don't. Just like the Papal murderers didn't see it as they tortured and murdered thousands upon thousands of Christians who stood on the Word of God.

The sickening Papal persecution lives!
Carry on in the same fine tradition.

If you say that Christ died for you, just where is the gratitude? Where is the love?

You continue to spit in His face.

Bill Sundling| 5.1.11 @ 3:57PM

The pope was the evil leader of the largest cult in the world. He gave credit to Mary for saving his life in 1982. The Roman Catholic Church continues to persecute true Christians around the world where it has sufficient influence--Latin America for one. Along with leading billions to hell.

Clint| 5.1.11 @ 8:53PM

"A good and faithful servant of God has been called home.
The world has lost a champion of peace and freedom. "
George W Bush

"The world has lost a religious leader who was revered across people of all faiths and none. He was an inspiration, a man of extraordinary faith, dignity and courage.

Throughout a hard and often difficult life, he stood for social justice and on the side of the oppressed, whether as a young man facing the Nazi occupation in Poland or later in challenging the Communist regime.

He never wavered, never flinched, in the struggle for what he thought was good and right."

Tony Blair

Richard Baker| 5.1.11 @ 9:56PM

Ah, Margie. The face of "my interpretation of the Bible is correct and you're wrong." She assumes that she is the one and only source. Such arrogance. What year is this by the way? I'll pray for you lady.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 10:32PM

Ah, Richard.
Another one who rejects the Word of God to worship a false Religion.
Comfortable, isn't it?

jd| 5.1.11 @ 10:53PM

Everytime Margie comments on any religious-themed article, the hatred, bigotry, misunderstanding, and haughtiness that she spews is astounding for a supposed Bible-revering Christian. Maybe on this day celebrating the beatification of Blessed John Paul II, you should try to learn from his example on how to lead one's life with grace and humility. I will pray for you.

Margie| 5.2.11 @ 1:43AM

jd,

Where is there hatred in speaking from the Scriptures?

Are you that blind as well and filled with such hatred toward the Word of God?

Christians are called to defend the gospel of Jesus Christ. You choose to defend a Religious cult.

You are a liar, and you know it.

Margie| 5.1.11 @ 10:38PM

But Richard, Hell will not be so comfy.

Antidote| 5.2.11 @ 8:23AM

If there is a heaven and hell,then there must be a special place in hell for priest pedophiles and the "holy men" who protected them!

Tim the Enchanter| 5.2.11 @ 10:28AM

JPII may be a "blessed" in the Novus Ordo Church, but not in the Roman Catholic Church.

Akaky| 5.2.11 @ 5:06PM

"We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through Him all things were made. For us men and our salvation He came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary , and became man. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day He rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures: He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

This is what the believers in the Catholic cult believe; clearly anti-Christian nonsense of the first water. All real Christians know that Jesus and Martin Luther were the best of friends and Marty got written out of Scripture by Saint Jerome.

Bill Sundling| 5.2.11 @ 6:44PM

The current pope protected the pedophile priests. It's only fitting that he's behind making the previous pope into a god. Patron saints are false gods that some Catholics pray to. Catholics who do that break the first commandment.

Richard Baker| 5.2.11 @ 7:33PM

Margie:
Can you peer into my soul? Has your self-styled God-like omnipotence given you that talent? You will have much for which to answer. The job of the Trinity is already taken and your arrogance is breathtaking. When you can peer into a Man's soul, tell God. He'll be interested in your response.

simon templar| 5.2.11 @ 7:49PM

Organized religions since the beginning of recorded time have fallen to corruptive practices and strange misinterpretations of their original scriptures that for the most part served the self centered interest of a few. It is odd that there was so much tension, contention, and fighting within this thread as there is not a single denominational faith within chritianity or judaism that does not have stains of misdeeds on their hands. Odd, is it not that Christ himself struggled with this issue within the confines of his own culture and organized religion of his day. In each one of these christain judeo traditions and historys, we can also find a select group of individuals who were also spiritual giants that demonstrated great love, integrity, and faith. It is wierd but all of you are right in your comments and criticisms but you fail to recognize and seem to ignore those great ones who gave thier very lives and lived with truth and integrity. Jew, Protestant, Catholic...all greats in thier faith and sacrifices.

Tony in Central PA| 5.2.11 @ 9:00PM

Growing up in the 1960's and 70's, it is hard to explain to younger people the way things were. This is the challenge of presenting history. The idea that Soviet Communism could actually disintegrate seemed ludicrous. The possibility that it could do so without a nuclear world war that would annihilate many nations seemed beyond miraculous. These perceptions are not understood or forgotten by most people today. Thank you, JP2, for helping to bring about a miracle.

Creative Recreation | 8.10.11 @ 9:35PM

is good

The American Spectator

Streetcar Line

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