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The Obama Watch
Obama Faces Hard Times with Catholic Voters
He’ll have to do better than Kathleen Kennedy Townsend.
When Barack Obama won 54 percent of the Catholic vote in the 2008 presidential election, commentators barely noticed that John McCain won a majority of the religiously-active Catholic vote (51 percent to 49 percent). This was a small margin, to be sure, but it doesn’t bode well for the 2012 presidential race, after all the worst predictions of Obama’s support for abortion became reality.
Religiously-active Catholics are those who report attending Mass at least once a week. Weekly attendance at religious services is the accepted definition of a religiously-active voter in any faith tradition. Studies of exit polls going back to the '60s tell the story of how these Catholic voters lost their loyalty to the Democratic Party, becoming either reliable Republicans or swing voters with a preference for socially conservative candidates, e.g. the “Reagan Democrats.”
The Obama Catholic surrogate machine was in full swing throughout the last campaign and well into his administration. Even when concerns were voiced by Catholics regarding Obama’s appearance at Notre Dame, Kathleen Kennedy Townsend came to his defense in the pages of Newsweek before Obama’s first meeting with Pope Benedict XVI by writing, “Notre Dame awarded the president an honorary degree because it saw the need to highlight the best of Catholic teaching as applied to politics: the ability to open the eyes of those who would prefer to keep them closed, and to open the hearts of those who would prefer not to know the pain that their actions cause. The pope has a lot to learn about Catholic politics in America. Barack Obama can teach him.” (Note Ms. Kennedy Townsend did not capitalize “Pope”.)
Unfortunately, what “life-long Catholic” Ms. Kennedy Townsend is missing in her lecturing tone to the Holy Father on behalf of President Obama is the reality that Catholics’ eyes are open on the settled issues of life and marriage. Catholic voters are compassionate and educated with the ability to recognize when empty rhetoric is being used as cover for what does not help anyone, including the poor. President Obama’s advancement of the abortion and same-sex marriage agendas are perfect examples.
In just over two short years, President Obama has done more to promote abortion through policy in the health care reform bill, executive orders, and spending priorities such as Planned Parenthood than all his predecessors combined. And, his recent decision not to defend the Constitutionality of the Defense of Marriage Act potentially opens the door for the expansion of same-sex marriage across the country.
Those Catholics who campaigned for Obama saying his policies, such as anti-poverty programs or international aid, “outweigh” his support for abortion and same-sex marriage will find few converts among Catholic voters who have been made aware by their bishops of the massive abortion funding in the health care bill. These Catholic voters will have heard clearly what their Church leaders said when the legislation became law — universal health care coverage has always been an important goal, but should never have been achieved at the cost of unborn lives.
In fact, during the heat of the debate over abortion funding in the health care bill, President Obama stood before Congress and the entire nation on September 9, 2009 and said, “…under our plan, no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions, and federal conscience laws will remain in place.” Not only was federal funding for abortion always part of Obama’s plan, his surrogates were busy meeting with pro-abortion organizations like EMILY’s List delivering assurances that abortion would never be taken out of the legislation.
Catholics have a deep love for this country, for its special place in world history, and they know that — perhaps more than at any previous time — this election will define the future of America. Catholics do not want an America more deeply stamped by an Obama presidency than it already is. They’ve already learned his promises cannot be trusted. Obama has led our nation away from respect for life and marriage, and people who are suffering from terminal illness face “rationed care” with its inevitable trajectory toward euthanasia. Those who espouse the core value of our faith are increasingly viewed as intolerant, hateful, or lacking compassion because they want to defend innocent life and the foundational institution of human society, the family.
Obama surrogates who treat abortion and marriage as just two issues among many others are misleading Catholic voters and distorting the Church’s teaching. Abortion and marriage belong to a small group of policy issues that are not weighed by prudential judgment. All instances of abortion are morally wrong, as in the recognition that a marriage can exist between individuals of the same sex. Therefore, to consider allowing policies that do not respect the sanctity of life for any reason at all is unacceptable from a Catholic perspective. Likewise on marriage, the Church holds the firm belief that marriage between a man and a woman should be protected by the state and is a non-negotiable principle of Catholic teaching.
The 2010 mid-term election already demonstrated the consequences for Catholic Members of Congress who supported health care reform, especially in heavily Catholic states such as Ohio and Pennsylvania. President Obama and his Catholic supporters like Lt. Governor Kennedy Townsend will likely learn a lot about the faith of these same Catholics when it guides their decisions in the voting booth on November 6, 2012.
About the Author
Deal W. Hudson was chair of RNC Catholic Outreach and is the author of Onward Christian Soldiers: The Growing Political Power of Catholics and Evangelicals in the United States (Threshold). He is president of Catholic Advocate in Washington, D.C.
About the Author
Matt Smith, vice-president of Catholic Advocate, was Associate Director of Public Liaison responsible for Catholic outreach under President George W. Bush.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (70) | Leave a comment
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Appleby| 4.25.11 @ 7:16AM
Now if only the Catholics who actually follow the strictures of our church will band together and speak out, instead of leaving all the politicking to faux Catholic groups such as *Catholics for Choice* -- then we may get somewhere.
Mindy| 4.29.11 @ 8:29PM
The REAL faux Catholics are the THRICE-married Deal Hudsons, Newt Gingriches and Randall Terrys who not only cheated on all their wives but also coerced sex from underlings, then throw boulders at born gays and other men's wives who refuse to commit suicide through deadly childbearing. No wonder they converted to the pedophile-coddling, mid-wife-torching, indigenous people-looting RCC with its cosmic hypocrisy opportunities. Fortunately, most involuntary Catholics who suffered or witnessed church abuses have the common sense to disobey church bullies on most issues. No people commit more harm to marriage than "celibate" clergy and wife-dumping, gay-bashing adulterers like Hudson. Just google Cara Poppas to get a clue on his malignant misogyny. I believe this publication has reported on that scandal too. I'd go to a gay wedding any day over the hypocrisy fests of adulterous theothugs with their "wives" and molesting priests.
Melvin| 4.25.11 @ 8:26AM
There is one thing, of having a Catholic Politician, who has the religion, but has lost the faith, and having a Politician who is Catholic and lives the faith.
Mindy| 4.30.11 @ 9:32AM
Theothug Hudson reveals his fascist hypocrisies when he exalts "cradle Catholic" ADULTERESS CONCUBINE THIRD "wife" Call-Girl-ista "Gingrich" over lifelong Catholic/still-married-to-her-first-husband/scandal-free/feed-the-poor Kathleen Kennedy Townsend. Hudson excuses Call-Girl-ista's sinful baby-swallowing BJ's and adultery-hiding abortions, but condemns Townsend's pragmatic recognition that self-defending emergency abortions save millions of women from childbirth suicide and their surplus children from rape by priests. Scott Peterson-wannabe Hudson wishes his third cheated-on wife died in childbirth. What a Nazi pig he is.
Doctor Right| 4.25.11 @ 8:37AM
Don't kid yourself about Obama and "the Catholic vote" in 2012; the mere fact that he won >50% of that segment in 2008 should tell you all that you need to know about the depth and breadth of deep thinking that Catholics exercise on election day.
Catholicism is NOT a unified denomination, as far as it's practitioners are concerned. For every solidly Conservative Catholic who is concerned about social issues like abortion and who votes accordingly, there is a liberal-left Catholic who adheres to liberationist theology and who also votes accordingly. And sandwiched in between both are the Catholics who pay as much attention to politics as they do to Mass on Sunday, and who simply go through the motions on election day.
I WISH Catholics were unified on religious principles as well as politics, but it simply ain't so. Their leader, the Pope, has spoken out quite clearly and succinctly on the Catholic position on abortion for years, and to little avail. If Catholics can't even unite behind their own official doctrine, why would they unite behind the GOP?
Melvin| 4.25.11 @ 9:08AM
There is Catholics and then there is American Catholics.
Mindy| 5.1.11 @ 11:40AM
Perhaps American Catholics are still smarting from losing 400,000 soldiers in WWII and 60,000 in Vietnam by fighting Pius XII's disgraceful support of never-excommunicated anti-abortion Hitler and the Catholic Inquisition Diem brothers. Also, if Pope Nazinger believed his own crapola on abortion and gays, he'd demand last rites and funerals for all tampons and miscarriages, and chromosome testing of all current "straight" couples who may have one of 46 undiagnosed intersex syndromes like Klinefelter's. Perhaps shemales Newt and Hudson commit so much holy adultery to bolster their weak Y chromosomes.
Mindy| 4.29.11 @ 7:53PM
They won't unite on abortion because they know priests are encouraged to make their mistresses and rape victims get abortions. Moreover, Native Americans are no longer silent about the abortions and infanticides forced on them by rapist priests. Also, most Catholic women choose abortion when NFP's guaranteed failures threaten them with DEATH. BTW, Cardinal Montini (Paul VI) funded DEATH CAMPS in Nazi Croatia in WWII to punish 1 MILLION "heretics".
tatosian| 4.25.11 @ 9:24AM
"American bishops have been consistently outspoken in favor of legislation to give legal status to illegal immigrants and expand legal avenues for immigrants to bring their family members from abroad."
Catholics don't seem to have a problem uniting
behind their own official doctrine supporting illegal immigration.
Why is that?
http://icirr.org/en/node/1906
PJ| 4.25.11 @ 10:54AM
Tatosian,
A group of bishops from any country can not make official doctrine. This is official Church doctrine on immigration http://www.vatican.va/archive/.....2c2a4.htm. See # 2241.
BTW, Pope Benedict believes that every country has a right to defend its borders.
tatosian| 4.25.11 @ 12:18PM
"...In addition to engaging in projects for defending and promoting the immigrant’s rights, the Church “must assume ever more fully the Good Samaritan's role, making herself ‘neighbour’ to all the rejected...A significant gesture would certainly be one in which reconciliation, a genuine dimension of the Jubilee, is expressed in a form of amnesty for a broad group of these immigrants who suffer the tragedy of precarious and uncertainty more than others, namely, illegal immigrants."
John Paul II 98
http://www.vatican.va/holy_fat.....ti_en.html
"...The countries to which illegal immigrants are traveling should develop means of accommodating their needs and protecting their fundamental rights, the Pope said.
Benedict 08
http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/gets.....mber=90706
"Vatican enters illegal-immigration
MEXICO CITY - The Vatican is helping to pay for construction of a shelter for Central Americans traveling to the United States, angering immigration-control advocates just as Pope Benedict XVI begins his first official U.S. visit."
None of these would indicate that those American bishops in my quote are not in harmony with the See PJ.
Are you telling me the Catholic Church is NOT pro illegal alien pro amnesty?
tatosian| 4.25.11 @ 12:19PM
Vatican enters illegal-immigration
http://www.azcentral.com/news/.....s0416.html
PJ| 4.25.11 @ 3:42PM
I have referenced from official Church doctrine. You have not. So let me paste what it says in the Catechism, paragraph 2241 which can be found on the Vatican website:
"The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.
Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants' duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens."
Seems to me the statement is not for illegal immigration but treating everyone justly. People entering the USA without official government approval is disobeying the law.
Once again I claim that Pope Benedict is for the right of countries to defend their borders as stated in his message to the 97th World Day of Migrants & Refugees in 2011. "...At the same time, States have the right to regulate migration flows and to defend their own frontiers, always guaranteeing the respect due to the dignity of each and every human person. Immigrants, moreover, have the duty to integrate into the host Country, respecting its laws and its national identity. "The challenge is to combine the welcome due to every human being, especially when in need, with a reckoning of what is necessary for both the local inhabitants and the new arrivals to live a dignified and peaceful life." "
tatosian| 4.25.11 @ 9:45PM
Don't the actions of those bishops I referred to constitute de facto Catholic Church policy in the US? Those bishops are exceedingly vocal within the public square in their support of illegal immigrants. Don't their actions send an unmistakable message to their respective flocks? Cause I got their message loud and clear PJ.
Has the pope condemned those Bishops for welcoming those illegals to the US? Does the behavior of those bishops discourage or encourage more illegal immigration?
Why did the Vatican construct a shelter for migrants planning to enter the US illegally if the Pope doesn't support illegal immigration. Actions speak louder than words don't they?
Given the unfair burden placed on taxpayer supported medical, educational and correctional facilities by those illegals and the disastrous effects, on the American society, of the separatism celebrated within those illegal communities, I can only conclude that your "treating everyone justly" doctrine doesn't extend beyond the illegal alien community.
Does the Catholic Church benefit from the presence of those illegals PJ?
PJ| 4.25.11 @ 11:10PM
I generally can not disagree with you on how the American bishops are treating the illegal immigration issues. Yet, they are American citizens & they have a right to voice their opinions, without inciting violence, along with Protestant ministers & clergy of others religions.
Immigration is one of those social justice, fuzzy issues. Catholics of good conscious could certainly disagree with bishops on how to interpret paragraph 2241 but not on the basic tenets of faith such as the Eucharist .
The Vatican or the pope can certainly make mistakes in their governmental, administrative duties. Their policy decisions are only as good as the information that's given to them. We know this to be true given the delayed reaction the Vatican & JPII had when the 2002 American clergy pedophile scandal became public. Please reread the Pope Benedict statement I posted. It was presented in Jan 2011, Obviously he was given more information since 2008 (the statement you posted).
Also, to the Vatican our immigration problems are not of the same importance compared to the Christians being persecuted, tortured, & martyred throughout Asia, Africa, & the Middle East.
tatosian| 4.26.11 @ 1:24AM
The opinions of those American bishops and, more importantly, the results of those opinions (in direct opposition to the overwhelming majority of American citizens) have been disastrous for American society.
Illegal aliens and their champions have not unified us. They have divided us. Is a nation divided a good thing? For whom?
Surely those American Catholic bishops understand what they're doing.
Of what import are the words of a Pope who says he supports states boundaries or a states sovereignty when his representatives in a nation thousands of miles away do everything in their power to abolish that states boundaries and diminish that state's sovereignty by encouraging illegal immigration?
If our illegal alien problems are not a priority for the Pope, which, judging by the actions of those American bishops would seem to be the case, why bring him up PJ?
Does the Catholic Church benefit from the presence of those illegals? Does the benefit to the Catholic Church outweigh my nations right to survive as a nation?
Why? Is my nation to be righteously destroyed by the Catholic church because of the Roe
decision?
Why PJ? School me.
Mindy| 4.29.11 @ 7:39PM
American PEDOPHILE and playboy priests directly benefit from illegals who are easy to exploit for sex. American forced-birthers have no one to blame but themselves for these burdensome invasions because they support a mother-killing, child-raping, Nazi-electing cult and its mother-killing politicians who keep third world women in incubating slavery for pedophile priests.
MacDaddy| 4.25.11 @ 9:52AM
I was incredulous when my mom (who is 80, still sharp as a tack, and a devout Catholic) voted for Obama and then actually attempted to use the patented Obama double-speak to continue to justify her vote. When I tried to gently point out to her before the election that, despite Obama's rhetoric, the staunch pro-abortion position of the Democratic party would NEVER change, she opined that Obama would change that. Because he said he would.
Since that time, my mother's eyes have been reluctantly forced open by events, and she is haunted by her vote. I suspect many Catholics feel the same way. I hope and pray they find their courage to correct their Obama votes in the next election....
Petronius| 4.25.11 @ 10:35AM
That's hope and change for you. Catholics are attracted to anybody who spouts goodie-goodie sentiment. The old priests and nuns who used to smack them upside their infantile heads, forcing them to become competent productive adults are dead and gone. The day is fast approaching when they will soon learn that they can't live their entire lives in a world where they don't have to grow up. The adults who are still around can't afford to subsidize their deficiencies much longer.
PJ| 4.25.11 @ 11:12AM
Catholics are not attracted to goodie-goodie sentiment; we're masters of our suffering!
That said I think you forgot to read those statistics that stated that Catholics are in sync with the rest of the country on various political issues. Some are conservative & some are liberal & many are in between just like our Protestant, Jewish, & Muslim brethren & others.
Darragh| 4.25.11 @ 6:47PM
Grow up? Please. That repressive world is long long gone, although we certainly hear from bitter and infantile "recovering Catholics" constantly in the culture. Catholics are better educated than the norm in the US. You know what adulthood is? To live in this decaying culture and to stand up for your faith despite constant denigration of it. To be a Catholic today is to be very courageous. We are beset by ignorance and criticism from the Left and Right. As someone else said, part of the problem is a culture which understands nothing of 2000 years of history.
And Obama ain't gonna get the Catholic vote. In many subtle ways, he is emblematic of the anti Catholicism we face today.
Wayne | 4.25.11 @ 11:47AM
Catholics respond to the notion of sacrifice and guilt. A good strategy for the GOP candidate is to say that we must all sacrifice for our children and not leave them with huge debts. That we have allowed ourselves to be snookered by the Democrats with ephemeral payouts without having the money to pay for them, thus our children must pay for them, and probably not even get the same payouts. It is a form of generational warfare that must stop NOW.
Wayne | 4.25.11 @ 11:47AM
Catholics respond to the notion of sacrifice and guilt. A good strategy for the GOP candidate is to say that we must all sacrifice for our children and not leave them with huge debts. That we have allowed ourselves to be snookered by the Democrats with ephemeral payouts without having the money to pay for them, thus our children must pay for them, and probably not even get the same payouts. It is a form of generational warfare that must stop NOW.
Gary| 4.25.11 @ 11:47AM
I'm with PJ on this one. Catholics are far from a monolithic voting block just as Jews are not either. I'm always mystified by the Jewish community's staunch support for anti-Israel politicians. Ditto for Catholic's support for pro-choice politicos.
Occam's Tool| 4.25.11 @ 1:19PM
Jews have staunch support for politicians like Obama because Jews have a Lemming complex. I don't, but there aren't all that many Jews in Minnesota.
Vinny| 4.26.11 @ 9:01PM
"Lemming complex"? That is borderline antisemitic. I won't stand for bigotry, even if it's coming from my side, the Right. BTW, I am Catholic, just I have respect for my Jewish brethren.
Conserdude| 4.25.11 @ 11:50AM
I cannot understand how any Catholic who takes his or her religion remotely seriously can vote for Barack Obama based on his drivel about the "poor," and the rationalizing that somehow that's more important than marriage and abortion, which he's determined to respectively undermine and advance. Catholics, don't be suckered with this bogus appeal from Obama and the Democrats about fighting poverty while they wage war on other salient Catholic beliefs.
PJ| 4.25.11 @ 3:45PM
I as a Catholic can't understand it either & I deal with them everyday!
Al Adab| 4.25.11 @ 11:59AM
Should we read anything into the fact that on Easter night the White House was struck by lightning?
Margie| 4.25.11 @ 1:57PM
It was God tickling Obama under his chin, perhaps?
Al Adab| 4.25.11 @ 2:31PM
Heart you too, Margie.
michigander_sandusky| 4.25.11 @ 12:17PM
Obama's "empty rhetoric" started from day one of the 2008 campaign, but too many American's were either too ignorant or too asleep to notice. Everything you needed to know about Obama's pro-abortion stance was revealed at the "Saddleback Debate."
Recall that during the “Saddleback” presidential debate Barack Obama was asked several questions about abortion. One question was: “When does a fetus become a human being?” In classic political doublespeak Mr. Obama said that such a determination “is above my pay grade.” Keep in mind Mr. Obama favors no restrictions whatsoever on abortion and even favors partial-birth abortion. Such a position is incongruent with his “pay grade” argument and his claim to have good judgment. Think about it. If one is not sure when a fetus becomes a human being wouldn’t good judgment oppose every form of abortion? After all, if you don’t know when it becomes human, how do you know you’re not murdering it if you allow abortion at any point in its development? The only safe position if you’re not sure is to oppose all abortions. To make the “pay grade” argument on one hand and approve all abortions on the other is intellectually dishonest and a shoddy political ploy. Plus, at some point it must condone murder!
Claypoole| 4.25.11 @ 3:13PM
And when BO was an Illinois state senator, he voted against a bill that would protect the life of an infant born alive as the result of a late-term abortion. If memory serves, when asked about his vote, he said something to the effect that the mother's wishes should be respected. In other words, if Mommy wants a dead baby, she gets a dead baby.
Impeach Don't Wait| 4.25.11 @ 3:14PM
Great point! Thanks for pointing that out!... I always thought of it as "If you're not sure when life begins, it's better to err in favor of life!" But your relating this to his "above my pay grade" argument really makes it clear how disingenuous is his reasoning. As for others... I'm afraid so many anti-abortion people vote for such candidates because abortion is largely "out of sight, out of mind." Am I wrong?
K962| 4.25.11 @ 12:44PM
Little comment in the news today about how a Catholic Church was bombed on Easter Sunday in Bagdad! Luckily no one killed a few injured
Pat| 4.25.11 @ 1:29PM
Hispanics, both legal and illegal, voted for Obama in overwhelming numbers last election and, since most Hispanics are Catholic, it’s highly doubtful that anything within the Catholic liturgy or catechism favors Conservatives over Obama and his loyal minions. However, the critical demographic group the Dems are currently targeting is Wal-Mart shoppers through a combination of subtle arm twisting by the Justice Dept. and a very successful political strategy to impoverish the American middle class into shopping Wal-Mart due to an embarrassing lack of disposable income.
And why target Wal-Mart? For starters, it’s America’s largest company, bigger than Sears, Targets, Home Depot, Kroger, Safeway and Costco combined. It sells more food, in total, than both Kroger and Safeway. Has the largest number of employees of any private company and a store within 15 miles of 90% of Americans.
Annual profit is around $36 billion and transactions average 7.2 billion annually. 92% of Wal-Mart’s offerings come from China and the value of imported products going into Wal-Mart stores exceeds the annual GNP of 90% of other countries on this planet. With this incredible American success story, Catholics, Protestants and even New-Agers are taking a back seat to Wal-Mart shoppers among Democratic strategists and rightly so.
So, in time for the 2012 election, expect to see Obama Dolls in Wal-Mart stores this coming holiday season – one interesting version is an action figure which dispenses billions of dollars per hour to all the “less fortunate”, along with catchy sayings like “Hope and Change is My Promise”, whenever your child pulls the string. Another Democratic marketing ploy is “Obama Bucks” – coupons issued to food stamp recipients and good for a 10% discount at any Wal-Mart store. After a visit to Bentonville, Arkansas by three Justice Dept. lawyers, Wal-Mart’s executives have come to understand that simply offering useful products to Americans isn’t enough, they also have a duty to help our government involve the public in the Democratic Party process.
Margie| 4.25.11 @ 2:06PM
Why do half or so of Catholics vote Democrat? Why do half or so of Christians vote Democrat? Why do half or so of Jews vote Democrat? (Give or take however many)
Their thinking is skewed by their lack of knowledge about how government works and what government is for according to the Constitution. They've either been taught wrong (thanks public schools) or not taught at all. (Parents?).
Looks like we have more work to do! Speak to your neighbors and friends and don't abide by that old saying that says never talk politics or Religion!
Al Adab| 4.25.11 @ 2:34PM
Simply they confuse the personal obligation of charity with the use of government to impose charity. Bottom line by passing the buck to government they think they have relieved themselves of obligation to their neighbors. Of course they are wrong. Charity under compulsion is no charity at all.
Margie| 4.25.11 @ 3:24PM
It's so sad that false guilt and false teachings (or no teachings at all, but just blindly listening to feel-good cheap talk) will be the demise of our country.
Which Communist leader was it that said about giving them a child at a young age and they'll have them for life?
The Communists (Satan's henchmen) here know that's the way they need to do it in order to ruin the Republic. Ruin the young minds and do it as soon (as young) as possible.
When I consider all the trash children are taught in schools today I'm appalled and saddened~ when I see young people all warped in their thinking I wish I had the opportunity to take them aside, and teach them some real history and Biblical truth. When I see them, I am not angry with them, but wish I could help them.
I remember how when I was young and the elders used to look down at me, and blame me for not knowing what they knew. But young ones are a product of what they're taught~ or not taught.
Now, I look at them and don't blame them.
To the adult children now become Liberal Lefties~ I just speak the truth point blank to them~ they're now old enough to take it. Nothing like telling an older person how they've been taught wrong all their lives about Liberalism.
But as the Scripture says~
"Faithful are the wounds of one who
loves, and being plentiful are the kisses of
one who hates.". Prov. 27:6.
Al Adab| 4.25.11 @ 4:21PM
We must always stand for Truth and expound the Truth Margie for, "Ye shall know the Truth and the Truth shall make you free." It is only because there exists Truth that Freedom exists.
Anthony| 4.25.11 @ 3:12PM
Since this blog is labeled "Obozo Watch", I'll venture a slight stray from topic and alert my fellow posters that Obozo has more than just Catholics to worry about.
Drudge has video of Obozo's "new pastor".
Seems Obozo's new pastor,Wallace Smith, has likened Rush Limbaugh to the KKK. Well, the LSM can't continue the lies and excuse Obozo from not having heard this from Obozo's second racist pastor. First Rev. Wright, and now Wallace Smith. Obozo is either deaf or is a racist. Guess which?
Of course, the really big lie is that Obozo's faint to Christianity, is just that, a beard. This guy is Muslim through and through. He uses Christianity as he uses Michelle, another beard for our light in the loafers president.
Just wait for the document(s) exposure to finally emerge on this TOTAL FRAUD. It's gonna get real hot, real fast in America.
David T| 4.25.11 @ 3:46PM
Catholics are in many ways a diverse and fractious lot and hard to figure out sometimes, but my own anecdotal evidence leads me to believe Barack Obama will not be the One for them in 2012.
Bill Sundling| 4.25.11 @ 5:10PM
The Catholic Church is a cult anyway. It teaches salvation by baptism and obedience to church rules instead of faith in Christ and obedience to the Bible. It should be no surprise that Catholics are biblically illiterate. You couldn't know the Bible and remain Catholic.
fierceblackhat| 4.25.11 @ 5:28PM
"You couldn't know the Bible and remain Catholic." Really? That's all you've got? Just so you know - before Luther hammered some papers to a door, 1500 years of Catholic Biblical scholarship took place. How do you think the Bible came into existence? And I am Catholic because of the Bible!
Al Adab| 4.25.11 @ 5:38PM
...And I am not obviously. However, Ratzinger is one of the most insightful theologians of all time, certainly of our day. His books are well worth the effort.
Margie| 4.25.11 @ 7:11PM
Before Luther hammered some papers to a door (which isn't true to begin with), the Popes were putting to death Bible believing Christians for the crime of reading the Bible "on their own". They considered them heretics!
Ever hear of the Inquisition?
And the Bible came into existence because God arranged for the Apostles to write down His Words. Some men put the books together. Some Catholics also added to the Bible things that weren't written by the Apostles. These things are called the Apocrypha. These still exist in "Catholic Bibles."
The Catholic church teaches things that were not written of by the Apostles, or Jesus Himself.
There are hundreds of things.
OperaNerd1986| 4.27.11 @ 2:46AM
Of course the books known as the Apocrypha (or the Deuterocanon) were not written by the Apostles. They are a part of the Old Testament, and thus date from before the time of the Apostles.
Margie| 4.27.11 @ 7:43PM
Discover the facts for yourself:
"The apocryphal books were not permitted among the sacred books during the first four centuries of the real Christian church (I'm certainly not talking about the Catholic religion which is not Christian).
The Apocrypha contains fabulous statements which not only contradict the "canonical" scriptures but themselves. For example, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in three different places.
The Apocrypha includes doctrines in variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection. The following verses are taken from the Apocrypha translation by Ronald Knox dated 1954:
Basis for the doctrine of purgatory:
2 Maccabees 12:43-45, 2.000 pieces of silver were sent to Jerusalem for a sin-offering...Whereupon he made reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.
Salvation by works:
Ecclesiasticus 3:30, Water will quench a flaming fire, and alms maketh atonement for sin.
Tobit 12:8-9, 17, It is better to give alms than to lay up gold; for alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin.
Magic:
Tobit 6:5-8, If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish...and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore.
Mary was born sinless (immaculate conception):
Wisdom 8:19-20, And I was a witty child and had received a good soul. And whereas I was more good, I came to a body undefiled.
It teaches immoral practices, such as lying, suicide, assasination and magical incantation.
No apocryphal book is referred to in the New Testament whereas the Old Testament is referred to hundreds of times.
Because of these and other reasons, the apocryphal books are only valuable as ancient documents illustrative of the manners, language, opinions and history of the East."
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/apocryph.htm
OperaNerd1986| 4.28.11 @ 12:04AM
The book of Esther is not mentioned in the New Testament. How do we know that Esther is canonical? Doesn't it fail the New Testament reference test as well, by that logic?
Margie| 4.27.11 @ 8:06PM
In 1599, TWELVE YEARS BEFORE the King James Bible was published, King James said this about the Apocrypha:
"As to the Apocriphe bookes, I OMIT THEM because I am no Papist (as I said before)..."
King James Charles Stewart
Basilicon Doron, page 13
Margie| 4.25.11 @ 8:03PM
http://www.spurgeon.org/s_and_t/inq.htm
David T| 4.25.11 @ 8:32PM
BS--In a sense, I suppose the Catholic Church could be called a cult. We Catholics worship the God-Man Jesus Christ and strive to obey him. After all, that famous Catholic cult member St. Paul told us to have the same mind as Christ and humble ourselves in obedience to Him. Yes, we believe that baptism washes away the stain of original sin, because Jesus told Nicodemus that we are born again through water and the spirit. And, yes, we do follow the rules of the Church, the same Church that Jesus founded upon the Rock of St. Peter, the same Church that has the power from Christ to "bind and loose" here on earth. And, BTW, this is the same Church that wrote the books and letters of the NT, canonized them, and published them for all the world to know and understand the truth of God. You should thank God for the Catholic Church, because without it we would all be truly biblically illiterate.
Margie| 4.25.11 @ 9:03PM
Jesus was referring to the water birth, as t was called back then. And if you read the whole thing, it is perfectly clear that means physical birth when speaking of being generated from water.
"¶ But there was a man from the Pharisees,
Nicodemus his name, a ruler of the
Jews.
This one came to Jesus by night and
said to Him, Rabbi, we know that You have
come as a teacher from God. For no one is
able to do these miraculous signs which
You do, except God be with Him.
Jesus answered and said to him, Truly,
truly, I say to you, If one is not generated
from above, he is not able to see the kingdom
of God.
Nicodemus said to Him, How is a man
able to be generated, being old? He is not
able to enter into his mother’s womb a second
time and be generated.
Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to
you, If one is not generated out of water
and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the
kingdom of God.
The thing having been generated out of
the flesh is flesh, and that having been generated
out of the Spirit is spirit.
Do not wonder because I said to you,
You must be generated from above.
The Spirit breathes where He desires,
and you hear His voice; but you do not
know from where He comes, and where
He goes; so is everyone having been generated
from the Spirit.
Nicodemus answered and said to Him,
How are these things able to occur?
Jesus answered and said to him, You
are the teacher of Israel, and you do not
know these things?
Truly, truly, I say to you, That what
we know, we speak; and that which we have
seen, we testify. And you do not receive
our witness." Jn. 3:1-11.
You can choose to be like the Pharisees and reject His own words, or you can truly listen to them.
And for the last time, the Catholic church didn't write the Bible, God did. He's the Author, He is the Authority to whom we ought to listen to.
OperaNerd1986| 4.27.11 @ 2:38AM
Before you dismiss the Catholic Church's claims about baptism, you might want to look at what the Bible says about it (verses from the RSV):
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." --Mark 16:16
"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." -- 1 Peter 3:21
Margie| 4.27.11 @ 7:49PM
Catholicism claims baptism saves.
God says unless you are regenerated from above (born of His Spirit), you cannot see Heaven.
This false teaching of salvation by baptism seeks to forfeit many souls from the opportunity to come into a personal relationship with God through Christ.
It seeks to replace Jesus Christ as Mediator and replace Him with the pope, or priests who cannot save themselves, or anyone else for that matter.
Do you also allow yourself to replace the words of the catechisms with the words of the Scriptures?
Even the verses you quoted do not lend themselves to salvation by baptism.
Reread John 3:3 and tell me that Jesus is referring to baptism.
You cannot.
C.K. Amos| 4.25.11 @ 7:53PM
"Obama surrogates who treat abortion and marriage as just two issues among many others are misleading Catholic voters and distorting the Church's teaching."
Respectfully, Obama surrogates are trying to mislead Christians, Protestants and Catholics.
According to the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, 75 percent of the 35,556 people it queried about their religious affiliation said they were Christians. Evangelical Protestants led, with 26 percent; Catholics were next at 24 percent.
I raise this point because observers of Obama, as well as Obama and his handlers, make a grave error to ignore the depth and breadth of Protestant Christians' dislike of and moral and spiritual problems with Obama and his administration.
One more thing: It's God's Word that's being violated. The Church's teachings are secondary, though ones hopes they align themselves with Holy Scripture.
jackc| 4.25.11 @ 8:15PM
Charlatans a.k.a politicians, and bureaucrats step aside.
Businessmen and educators step in.
It is the 21st century - the Information age.
Fire Obama.
Hire Trumph.
Recover the American spirit
JustJP| 4.25.11 @ 9:45PM
Do you think the child in chief cares what christians think?
Dee See| 4.25.11 @ 10:31PM
---Anyone out there who has any care at all for
their religious soul, or any soul at all, has to confront the awesome
devastation of doctrine and neutralization of
effect thanks to over 6 decades of Rockefeller/Ford/Carnegie
'Council of Churches' infiltration.
This has to be confronted.
The 'benny violent' foundations and their
'social engineering'/EUGENICS programs
have to be unflinchingly confronted, richly prosecuted and destroyed once and for all.
AIN'T NO OTHER WAY----------------------
Prof Laura Hollis, JD| 4.25.11 @ 10:33PM
Deal:
You and I go back a ways (to the EARLY Ave Maria days) and I have great respect for you. But I think you are kidding yourself if you think that Catholics have had their eyes opened.
I was writing plenty for Townhall during the 2008 election, and many of my Catholic friends were aghast at my opposition to Obama. The faith has been hijacked by "social justice," which has become an anti-business euphemism for the welfare state.
I opposed Obama not only because he is vehemently pro-abortion, but because it was obvious that he was economically illiterate, and because (as a lawyer and former law professor), I was stunned at his ignorant comments about what the U.S. Constitution and the U.S. Supreme Court "didn't address" or "go far enough" to do, to his liking (namely, confiscating wealth and redistributing it).
None of it mattered to large swaths of Catholics in 2008. Obama's support for abortion was OK, because if we give more money to the poor, there will be fewer abortions. Yeah, riiiiiiiight.
Obama's actions on both the social and economic fronts have been disastrous. But hope springs eternal for the Catholics who believe that morality and charity are collective, as opposed to individual, virtues.
No, Deal, I do not think we will see Catholics flee Obama in droves in 2012. (They supported Clinton, too, by over 50%, and that was despite adultery and perjury.)
You'd better hang your hopes on the Mormons, the evangelical Protestants, the Orthodox Jews, and the atheist but fiscally conservative libertarians.
PJ| 4.25.11 @ 11:28PM
Professor, this is what happens when the Catholic bishops are derelict in their teaching responsibilities to a whole generation.
There are still some politically conservative Catholics out there who knew about Obama when he was a state senator running for the US Senate & are absolutely shocked that any practicing Catholic could vote for an extreme, pro-abortion politician who was certainly showing his communist tendencies even back then.
Mindy| 5.1.11 @ 2:39PM
Wow, Professor, you sound like one of college barfly "family values" Deal's many adultery conquests who believe adulterous oral sex is holy as long as participants are Republican fetal idolators.
Dee See| 4.25.11 @ 11:37PM
BTW ---while we're on the subject
WHERE'S the voice of religious indignation of
ANY of our religious establishment on ANY of the awesome issues of the times (RED China TREASON and Halocaust concealment, EUGENICS driven capstone foundations, the destruction of our national soveriegnty, the unfolding police state etc.)?
WHERE ARE THEY?
----------------------------------------WHERE??
chuck jim fox| 4.26.11 @ 1:11AM
Please do not say bad things about the Inquisition. A few years back there was a TV docu on the subject, with several tenured historians announcing that the Inquisition was not really a horrible thing--because it was run by trained lawyers who would not possibly have let it become brutal and frightening. Auto de Fe's were very rare, and done according to legal methods.
danny boy| 4.26.11 @ 10:46PM
What?! Catholics not vote for Obama? Because of his moral stances? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!! Generally speaking, most Catholics can't spell Catholic, much less have the moral stance of one.
Barack is counting on just that from you, RC's - and I'm sure you won't let him down, will you now? I didn't think so...
Throw that psycho Nancy Pelosi out of your church and then I'll know you're serious -
Judy | 4.27.11 @ 2:05PM
I saw a bumper sticker the other day that read:
You can't be Catholic AND an Obama supporter
Just sayin'...
PsychoDad| 4.27.11 @ 6:56PM
The fact remains that, regardless of official Vatican policy/theology, the US Conference of Catholic Bishops hews to a solid leftist, progressive party line -- with the sole exception of opposition to pre-natal infanticide. All through the Cold Wars years, the US Bishops advocated appeasement, peace at any price, etc., along with the usual Litany of Our Lady of the UN General Assembly.
That's why I'm Eastern Orthodox.
Christian Louboutin | 6.23.11 @ 5:39AM
When Barack Obama won 54 percent of the Catholic vote in the 2008 presidential election, commentators barely noticed that John McCain won a majority of the religiously-active Catholic vote (51 percent to 49 percent).
Creative Recreation | 8.10.11 @ 9:50PM
is good
RUTH| 9.5.11 @ 11:08AM
GOD, I hope so.