The American Spectator

Robbins Mitchell| 4.15.11 @ 6:30AM

Well,.apparently "Petit" Bourgeois is still blind queer for St Karl Marx

gypsy| 4.15.11 @ 1:48PM

old fart Sixties radicals: dead, but too frigging stupid to lie down

mames| 4.16.11 @ 5:54PM

and the radical priest
come to give me release
and were all on the cover of Newsweek
And why oh why does the Roman church not excommunicate these apostates?

victor| 4.17.11 @ 2:18AM

For the same they don't excommunicate pedophile priests.

daddio| 4.18.11 @ 12:10PM

There would be no one left in the church. And these fools wonder why people stop attending...

Patrick| 4.17.11 @ 2:05AM

This is why Maryknoll has become a greater joke than the Jesuits as of late.

A sick joke, a joke so sick that there's only one person smiling, and that's because he will be testifying as prosecutor in a few, *very* short years.

Sic transit gloria mundi.

Dee See| 4.15.11 @ 6:44AM

Mary Knoll has long been exposed as an Arminian
front disguising the most dangerous sort of 'grass roots' Marxist subversion.

The Arminian Heresy, the forces of bankster
controlled opposition 's (i.e. 'socialism')
'fave' weapon for subversion on so many fronts.

"It's in the nature of heresy that while it
appears to be reasonable and appealing,
it wounds unto death."
G K Chesterton

REALLY folks ----do the background.

Ryan| 4.15.11 @ 8:24AM

Are Southern Baptists and Pentecostals - whose views are mostly Armenian AND Conservative - saved?

Dixie Pixie| 4.15.11 @ 10:18AM

Ryan do you know any Southern Baptists or Pentecostals?
The thought that they were in anyway "Armenian" is quite amusing.

Ryan| 4.15.11 @ 10:52AM

They're more or less Arminian on about 3-4 of the 5 points of TULIP (sorry about the spelling).
(That's Total Depravity, Unconditional election; Limited Atonement; Irresistable grace; Perseverance of the Saints)

Assemblies of God are more or less at complete disagreeance with TULIP, and many Pentecostals agree with the same standpoint.

Southern Baptists, as a general rule, don't agree with the U-L-I parts.

I won't go into them here, but there's plenty of online sources for the scriptural breakdowns.

Doctor Right| 4.15.11 @ 11:33AM

Ya' gotta' love it when Catholics point out the non-scriptural basis of other denominations without any regard for the glaring, utterly un-scriptural pillars of their own "faith".

David T| 4.15.11 @ 2:54PM

Your argument is self-defeating. The Catholic Church wrote the NT, assembled it, and finally promulgated it after the First Council of Constantinople in 381 A.D. Through the Magisterium, the Church infallibly interprets the Scripture, so it is impossible for Catholic doctrine to be "unscriptural."

Doctor Right| 4.15.11 @ 3:57PM

The Catholic Church DID NOT "write" the New Testament.

That is a fallacy purposefully perpetrated by Catholics for their own benefit.

NONE of the Apostles were EVER Catholics; Peter was NEVER a "Pope".

As a Christian, I don't need "the Magisterium" to interpret scripture for me.

As far as the "infallible" nonsense is concerned, if you consider 11-year old "Popes" to be infallible, then you have other problems to deal with - mainly, common sense.

The Catholic Church is not only un-scriptural, it's blatantly false.

David T| 4.15.11 @ 5:09PM

Your "arguments" do not quite persuade me to give up 2000 years of Catholic teaching and tradition.

Doctor Right| 4.15.11 @ 6:22PM

I'm not surprised; most Catholics prefer the artificial and false traditions of men over the Word of God.

Doctor Right| 4.15.11 @ 6:23PM

Also, your lack of a substantive reply is duly noted.

I was hoping that, at the least, you'd dredge-up that old chestnut about "On this rock I will build my Church"...

David T| 4.15.11 @ 8:08PM

That "old chestnut," as you call it, was spoken by none other than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. So what did He mean? Please don't give me that old chestnut that He was referring to Himself and not St. Peter. (See, these things work both ways.)

mames| 4.16.11 @ 6:03PM

The early Christians were absorbed into the Holy Roman Universal church ( a political tool of the empire) in many ways. That Roman institution was not in any way Christian. No early Christian would identify himself as Roman Catholic until after Constantine began to control it They were more likely to refer to themselves as The Way. Catholics did not write the New Test. Various writers did and the early church codified those writings into a new test. The canon is easily found before Nicea - primarily being "was this an eye witness account" ? No one is infallible only Gods Word is infallible.

David T| 4.18.11 @ 3:22PM

This is right out of "Roman Catholicism," the anti-Catholic screed by Loraine Boettner.

Ted| 4.15.11 @ 11:32PM

Brother Doctor (mostly) Right,

Unless I am much mistaken, from his past posts Ryan isn't Catholic....

Ryan| 4.18.11 @ 8:10AM

Correct. "Reformed Baptist" is probably the best label at present.

Doctor Right| 4.15.11 @ 11:23AM

Not necessarily.

If they're not following God's Word, then certainly not.

Ryan| 4.15.11 @ 12:46PM

I agree here, I was just being general in aspect as to what theological positions a person can hold and be "saved."

From everything that I can tell, it is faith in Christ and Him crucified. Anything beyond that is more than likely extra-Biblical (and what Paul often preached against).

Ted| 4.15.11 @ 11:35PM

Fasten your seat belts, ladies and gentlemen. Here we go for a (joyride) again.....

For you newcomers, Doctor (mostly) Right has a few.... shall we say, bete noirs....

We still love him though.

Doctor Right| 4.15.11 @ 11:26AM

Are Catholics saved?

Ryan| 4.15.11 @ 12:44PM

There are many that certainly are. If they aren't, then there is an issue Promise to Abraham about the number of his descendants, as well as a blanket condemnation of Catholics for about 1500+ years.

I don't completely agree with the stance, but we need to be careful about oversimplifying their beliefs into works over faith, which is commonly done by Protestants (and misunderstood by Catholics themselves at times).

David T| 4.15.11 @ 2:38PM

Yes, Catholics are saved by grace and, if they persevere in the faith, they will be saved in the end.

Margie| 4.15.11 @ 5:58PM

How about what Jesus Himself says?

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on Him, If ye continue in my Word, then are ye My disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." Jn. 8:31 & 32.

"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love Me, he will keep My Words: and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make Our abode with him." Jn. 14:23.

It's the only way we can become His disciples and be faithful to Him, by listening to and continuing in HIS words, not the words of ANY false Religion.

David T| 4.15.11 @ 7:55PM

Hi Margie--welcome back.

Margie| 4.15.11 @ 9:41PM

Likewise-- I'm sure.

Ryan| 4.18.11 @ 8:11AM

"waves and smiles"

Margie| 4.18.11 @ 12:36PM

LOL @ Ryan. :^)

mames| 4.16.11 @ 6:08PM

As was promised Abraham as the sand on the sea. Thats a lot of folks from every denomination. Trust in Christ alone is the "ticket". Many believe in spite of the false doctrines taught in their denomination. Thank the Lord.

Ryan| 4.18.11 @ 8:12AM

I even think that "false doctrines" can be an overstatement here. There are plenty of honest people who read the Bible literally and come away with radically different interpretations.

Margie| 4.18.11 @ 12:59PM

mames and Ryan,

Of course many believe in spite of false doctrines, but the false doctrines should be pointed out~ it's the loving thing to do.

My Dad who is a Catholic never knew that most everything he was taught by Catholicism was wrong. He carried the burden of false guilt with him for his entire life, always believing that he wasn't "good enough" for God.

I explained to him that trusting in Jesus Himself for the forgiveness of his sins is all that God requires to begin a relationship with Him. And that if he need to be relieved from his sin toward others, all he had to do was ask them to forgive him.

You know what? He did. Salvation is by Grace, through faith in Christ Jesus, and not through ANYTHING or ANYONE else! (I'm not yelling, I'm kindly emphasizing).

It's the kindest thing a Christian has the authority to do~ preach the true gospel (good news) to those still in darkness, so that they can also come into, as the Bible says, "His marvelous Light."

I know and have friends and family who are Catholic. I love them. It isn't the Catholic PERSON I reject, but the DOCTRINES when they aren't Biblical.
And false doctrine isn't an overstatement!

Plenty of people read the Bible literally and come away with radically different interpretations because they are thinking their own thoughts~ here's the answer to that problem~ the Bible interprets itself.

Every single verse you name can be referenced in another part of the Bible with another verse, and every single Old Testament Scripture can be referenced with a verse from the New Testament.

That's how God set it up. And it isn't confusing. Some people just like to make it confusing, especially those who claim you need someone else to tell you what God says, and that you shouldn't read His Words for yourself.

Ryan| 4.18.11 @ 2:52PM

"Plenty of people read the Bible literally and come away with radically different interpretations because they are thinking their own thoughts~ here's the answer to that problem~ the Bible interprets itself."

I can point out several issues that have literalists on both sides of the aisle....even on that which we find elementary...even in following your methodology.

Eschatology (end-times prophecies)
Predestination/Free will
Baptism (as I pointed out elsewhere in this thread)
Tongues
dispensationalism/covenant theology

If I recall, you have even brought to question a historical doctrine that few literalists have EVER questioned, and very few still do - the Trinity.

"False doctrine" is often a description that Paul the Apostle used when targeting those who were telling new Christians that they had to follow specific rules to BE a Christian, or those who were promoting complete liberty in sin. Of course, those were also the predominant issues of the day as well.

Margie| 4.18.11 @ 3:50PM

Well Ryan, I'll just say it again:

"For God is not a God of confusion but of peace." 1 Cor. 14:33.

It really isn't that complicated as far as God is concerned. He gave us His Words. If you stick to what the Bible actually says, and not listen to "opinions", you will have no worries.

The Bible interprets itself, with each and every Scripture perfectly matching up with the New Testament.
Where doctrines come in that do not match up, Christians reject them.

It is the easiest and laziest thing to do to not even bother to test what you hear against the Bible and just accept something because a certain denomination says it is true.

The Bible is the standard.

Since the "Trinity" isn't Biblical, I reject it.

The Words of Christ are plain when He says,

"I and the Father are One." Jn. 10:30.

What God says about the Holy Spirit is that He is the Counselor, the Comforter, sent to guide us into all truth..

"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My Name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you." Jn. 14:26

That's what the Bible says. The Holy spirit is the one who is sent to guide us into the truth of God.

He isn't to be prayed to~ He is the one who teaches us to pray to God, through Christ.

Nowhere in the Bible is there a "Trinity" spoken of, as a noun, that we are instructed to pray to.

Ryan| 4.19.11 @ 8:36AM

How serious a study of the Trinity have you made, then? Do you believe that because the word isn't mentioned, then it is absolutely invalid?

Several questions:
If there is no Trinity, then how do you explain the circumstances at Jesus' Baptism, where the Father spoke, Jesus was present, AND the Spirit descended?

How do you explain Christ's prayer in the garden? Was He talking to Himself or praying as you or I do?
Is the Father God?
Is Christ God?
Is the Holy Spirit God?

Do they exist separately, or one at a time?

I agree that God is not a God of confusion; however, that does NOT mean God is not complex and it does NOT mean that there are things about God we cannot understand.

You are also using that verse OUT of context. It was specifically addressing the confusing nature of tongues and having an orderly worship service. Taking it out of that context and applying it elsewhere is a stretch.

Our minds being limited does NOT mean they are confused. I believe you are over-simplifying that verse. Watering the Trinity down to being "confusing" doesn't work. Particularly Biblically:

· “ ‘For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,’ declares the LORD. ‘As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.’” – Isaiah 55:8-9

· “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!” – Romans 11:33

· “Now we see but a poor reflection; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.” – 1 Corinthians 13:12

Another point here. You are in a VAST minority in historical Christianity. I'm talking thousands.

Is belief in the Trinity so unbiblical that it condemns to Hell?

Here's the question for the rest of us: does DISBELIEF in the Trinity such a distortion of the character and nature of God that a true Christian cannot hold it?

A good reference I found, that uses scripture:
http://www.contenderministries.....ityobj.php

Margie| 4.19.11 @ 4:12PM

Well, sine the Trinity isn't in the Bible, a Christian isn't supposed to "believe in it."

God isn't an IT.

Ryan| 4.19.11 @ 4:42PM

Yes, God is a "He." However, that doesn't disprove the Trinity, nor what you are posting.

However, I am shocked at your lack of engagement on what I posted. You are appearing to simply brush it off and not even bother with "studying to show yourself approved."

I'm not being condescending in the above posts. I care about you here as a Christian, because we must grow intellectually as Christians to keep off the things of the World.

And I'm not coming out of left field here. If there is something that most Christians have believed historically, BOTH Catholic AND Protestant, literalist and not, shouldn't we take it seriously?

I do what I would think you would find credible - I pointed out scriptures as proof, tried to keep everything in context, and am trying to be cordial here.

You push it aside with but a few sentences.

Margie| 4.19.11 @ 5:00PM

I already spoke concerning the issue and I continue to believe what Jesus says.

I repeat: I am in complete agreement with every single word that is written in the Bible.

EVERY SINGLE WORD!

I'm sorry that you feel the need to try and drag me into a phony argument.

David T| 4.19.11 @ 10:47AM

Margie--The early church fought against many heresies, mostly false teachings about the person and work of Jesus Christ, but there were also many disputes about the nature of the Holy Spirit. The orthodox belief from Pentecost forward was that the Holy Spirit was a distinct Person of the Godhead , of the same divine essence as the Father and Son. The Nicene Creed , circa 327 A.D., "codified" this truth. Those who did not accept it were branded as heretics. As for the Bible, it is self-authenticating, meaning it is internally consistent in its truth and teachings, but it is not "self-interpreting" or "self-defining." That is a property of God alone. The Bible was written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It is simple enough for most people to understand its message of salvation, but it is also very deep and complicated in parts, requiring apostolic interpretation (see the story of the Ethiopian eunuch in the Book of Acts.) Jesus entrusted his Apostles with the Deposit of Faith, which has been handed down from generation to generation in the teaching authority of the Catholic Church. Christ prayed for his church to be one, but throughout history wolves have tried to separate the sheep from their master.

Margie| 4.19.11 @ 4:10PM

David, you're just plain wrong about the "handing down" issue.

There is no such thing.

As to the Holy Spirit, I stick to what the Bible actually says and REFUSE to get into arguments over teachings that say anything other than what the Bible actually says.
See my above post.

God arranged the Bible to be handed down to all people everywhere. all who call upon His Name.

"But as many as received Him, to them
He gave authority to become children of
God, to the ones believing into His name,
who were generated not of blood, nor
of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of
man, but were generated of God." John 1:12.

There is NO teaching authority exclusive to ANY church.
The church are individuals who have received Christ, as written above. It isn't a Religion. The Body of Christ is PEOPLE.

David T| 4.19.11 @ 5:08PM

Margie--I don't like to resort to proof-texting because it reminds me of the "my-daddy-can-beat-up-your-daddy" fights I had as a kid. But St. Paul did exhort us to "stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (II Thess 2:15). What do you suppose he meant by "traditions," if not the passing on of oral and written teachings to succeeding generations? And whom was he referring to by "us," if not the Apostles?

Margie| 4.19.11 @ 5:21PM

David,

Yes, he said the traditions taught by THEM.

I agree whole heartedly.

Margie| 4.19.11 @ 5:24PM

P.S. Please DO refer to Bible verses, as that's what we're supposed to do! It isn't vile or condescending to do so, not at all.

Margie| 4.19.11 @ 6:06PM

P.P.S.

As to what you said about "the early church had many disputes"~

That's what I mean about not listening to them, the disputes, and always sticking to what the Bible actually says, and what the Apostles actually wrote.

Everything God wanted us to know is in there. He planned it that way.

If the early church says infant baptism for example is OK and the Bible says no such thing~ why do it?

If the early church says ANYTHING the Apostles or Jesus didn't teach~ we shouldn't listen to it.

In Matthew 23 Jesus taught about how the lawyers and the scribes and Pharisees put heavy burdens on the people having to do with law. He then went on to say that these teachers couldn't even do what they taught, themselves and then said this:

"But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in Heaven. Neither be called masters, for you have one Master, the Christ." Mt. 23:8-10.

I love it!

Jesus Himself is the only Mediator between us and God, and He is the only Teacher we need to listen to, along with the Apostles.

Margie| 4.19.11 @ 9:22PM

http://www.studyyourbibleonline.com/

Especially meaningful is this:

"If we accept the Bible as divinely inspired and authoritative, then we are admitting that its teachings must rule our lives. Whatever the Bible says is what God says or what Christ says. The Lordship of Jesus only becomes a reality in a person’s life inasmuch as that person submits his/her life to the specific teachings of the Bible. Whether it is on salvation, or morality, or integrity, or worship, or the family, or sexual conduct, or whatever else it might be, the Bible conveys the will of God for our lives. That is why it is so important to do precisely what the Bible says."

Bill| 4.15.11 @ 10:38AM

How does Arminianism disguise Marxism? The two conceptions don't seem to have very much to do with one another.

After all, Arminism is centered around God's grace and the earning of it, while Marxism denies the entire concept of God.

Bill| 4.15.11 @ 10:40AM

"Arminianism" is the proper spelling. Sorry about the mistake.

Bill| 4.15.11 @ 10:44AM

By the way, it's hard to believe that the Maryknoll priests would be Arminians, as Arminianism is largely a Protestant school, and expresses one of the main differences between Roman Catholicism (faith and good works can earn God's grace) and Protestantism (grace is conferred by God and good works can't earn it; one is dependent of God's will to grant grace).

Evanston2| 4.15.11 @ 12:32PM

Bill, far be it from me to speak for Rome, but I do not believe its position is that "faith and good works can earn God's grace." That sounds more like the Pelagian heresy than Rome's actual teachings, which rely on God's grace (though not as strongly as those who hold to election/"5 point Calvinism"/TULIP). To further complicate matters, look at Wikipedia's entry on Semipelagianism. If you scroll down to the heading "Reformation" you'll see that protestants who hold to election lump Rome and Arminians together. Personally I believe this is accurate as far as it goes, but the question for all of us is (hopefully) what does the Bible teach? Well, God saves and He nonetheless holds us responsible for what we are (see Rom 9). At some point beyond that the subject becomes a bit too abstract and distant from the heart. Hopefully we all look to Christ, and Him crucified, for our salvation instead of "earning" it.

David T| 4.15.11 @ 2:29PM

The Catholic Church is in no way arminian. It teaches that "prevenient" grace leads one to confess and be baptized. Baptism washes away the stain of orginal sin--that's why the Church has always practiced infant baptism. Catholics pray for the grace of final perseverance, but it is always possible to fall away through mortal sin. "Once saved, always saved" is not taught in the Catholic Church.

Ryan| 4.15.11 @ 3:40PM

I agree with the non-arminian idea here - that's more of a Protestant issue than a Catholic one.

Margie| 4.15.11 @ 6:08PM

That isn't what the Bible says, David T.

Baptism does not wash away Sin. The Holy Spirit does.

It would do you well to listen to and obey what Christ Himself actually taught:

"I baptize you with water for repentance, but He Who is coming after me is mightier than I, Whose sandals I am not worthy to carry; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." Mt. 3:11.

"I have baptized you with water; but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit." Mk. 1:8.

"If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!" Lk. 11:13.

And baptism is to be done after repentance, as an adult, and after repentance:

"And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Acts 2:38.

That's what God says, and it doesn't agree with Catholic doctrine. It's up to each person to do as God asks, and He asks that we follow His Words, and not the teachings of man.

David T| 4.15.11 @ 8:25PM

Margie--Do you speak for God? Are you His prophet? Should I believe you on your own authority? Muhammed said he was a prophet. Why shouldn't I believe him instead of you? How about Jim Jones? Christ gave His authority to St. Peter and the Apostles. The Deposit of Faith has been handed down from generation to generation ever since in the Catholic Church--the one, holy catholic, and apostolic church of Jesus Christ.

Margie| 4.15.11 @ 9:21PM

I just quoted Jesus' own words. I'm a Christian, and according to the Words of Christ, I have the authority to quote them. It is Him I believe, and no man. That's what Christians actually do, stand on the Words of God.

As it is written:

"But as many as received Him, to them
He gave authority to become children of
God, to the ones believing into His name,
who were generated not of blood, nor
of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of
man, but were generated of God." Jn. 1:12.

Are you better than Him or do you think you can so arrogantly deny what He says?

Clint| 4.15.11 @ 10:02PM

Now Anti-Catholic Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie, Tell All The American Spectator Readers What You Say happens to Practicing Jews & Muslims when they die.

Margie| 4.15.11 @ 10:14PM

It must have been something Jesus said.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 5:22AM

Aaaand, what do You Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie say that Jesus both said and meant, that sends practicing Jews & Muslims to Hell when they die ?

You're Up Bucks County Religious Bigot.

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 3:18PM

Bucks county? So what are, following me like a stalker? Oh, that's right, you ARE a stalker. Do you really think you can get away with it? Ha!

Now, when I said, "It must have been something Jesus said", what I meant was it must have been something He said in order for you to react in such a disgusting way?

Was it something He said?
Something you don't like or disagree with?
Those are His words, not mine.
Lotsa luck.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 7:16PM

Fanatic Screwball Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie posts Her Anti-Catholic Religious Bigot comments and thinks she's being stalked when readers respond to Her Crap.

See A Religious Counselor & A Therapist, Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.

victor| 4.17.11 @ 2:22AM

Clint:
"Jesus both said and meant,"

Speaking of what Jesus both said and meant,
What do you think He meant and said here:
Luke 17:2
"It would be better for him if a millstone were hung round his neck and he were cast into the sea, than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin."

Think it has anything to do with practicing pervert pedophile priests?

Ryan| 4.18.11 @ 8:24AM

Disclaimer - I'm not a strict believer in infant Baptism.

However, it really can't be disproven, Margie, that infant Baptisms WEREN'T performed in the first century church. There's good reason to believe that in Acts 16:30-34 the common usage of "household" includes all members of a rich persons household - including infants.

Under a literal understanding of scripture, it really can't be disproven. Not with the literal understanding of what "household" means in context.

Now, there are two distinct infant baptism "theories;" one is the Catholic/Lutheran, where Baptism is salvific in nature; the other is where it is a sign of the Covenant that replaces circumcision (Col 2:11-12).

Margie| 4.18.11 @ 12:26PM

Hello Ryan :^)

The Bible says to "repent and be baptized". That's something an infant cannot do. The Spirit of God is addressing those who are capable of repentance.

And you're referring to the verse where it says, you and your household will be saved but that has no application to infant baptism whatsoever.

Paul said:

"And bringing them outside, he said,
Sirs, what must I do that I may be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord
Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you
and your household." Acts 16:30 & 31.

It's addressed to the individual telling him that if he believes in Jesus, his household will be saved.
To infer infant baptism into that, it isn't there.

This passage (which is so wonderful, that I had a really hard time not posting the entire chapter, and encourage anyone to go and read it now), is self explanatory as well. It explains how through Christ's regenerating us by His Holy Spirit (Jn. 3:3), the circumcision not made with hands. It's spiritual.
"Being Buried with Him in baptism", represents this.

"For in Him dwells all the fullness of the
Godhead bodily;
and having been filled, you are in Him,
who is the Head of all rule and authority,
in Whom also you were circumcised
with a circumcision not made by hands, in
the putting off of the body of the sins of
the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
having been buried together with Him
in baptism, in whom also you were raised
through the faith of the working of God,
the One having raised Him from among
the dead ones.
¶ And you, being a dead one in the
deviations and the uncircumcision of your
flesh, He made alive together with Him,
having remitted all your deviations,
blotting out the handwriting in the ordinances
against us, which was contrary to
us, even He has taken it out of the midst,
nailing it to the cross;
having stripped the rulers and the authorities,
He made a show of them in freely
speaking, triumphing over them in it." Col. 2:9-15.

Baptism is symbolic for Christ's death (our dying to sin), and His Resurrection (our being raided with Him)!

In the same we we are now to consider being dead to sin, and alive to God in Christ Jesus:

"So also you count yourselves to be truly
dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus
our Lord.
Therefore do not let sin reign in your
mortal body, to obey it in its lusts.
Neither present your members as instruments
of unrighteousness to sin, but
present yourselves to God as one living
from the dead, and your members instruments
of righteousness to God.
For your sin shall not rule over you,
for you are not under Law, but under grace." Rom. 7:11-14.

Margie| 4.18.11 @ 12:34PM

Oops. Above should read raised with Him, (not raided). ;^)~

Ryan| 4.19.11 @ 8:58AM

I more or less agree with you; however, I've studied it a LOT more in-depth than this, and there are several points:
1. Historically, since at LEAST the late first century, babies were baptized. It never became a theological issue until the Reformation, which is we don't have a ton of records about it from then.
2. The context of the several "household" Baptisms in the NT - both in circumstance AND the literal, contextual meaning of the word means that we simply don't have the room to discount that babies weren't involved.

Margie| 4.19.11 @ 4:14PM

Ryan,

There are no infant baptisms in the Bible.

Bill| 4.19.11 @ 4:31PM

The controversy over infant baptism in the 4th Century, which capped at least a century of debate over baptism in Christianity, involved the idea that Christianity can only be entered by one who is sufficiently adult to study Christian belief, knowingly and intelligently repent of his sins, and make a responsible decision to be a Christian.

However, Christian parents with children who died before they were baptized believed that their children had not been shriven of Original Sin (not a Biblical concept, but an Augustinian one) and would therefore languish in suffering until the Last Judgment, so they and the priests and cardinals who agreed with them fought for infant baptism. Now Christians generally believe that infant baptism is acceptable in God's eyes.

Bill| 4.19.11 @ 4:32PM

The conflict between adult and infant baptism is why, by the way, many Christian sects have a confirmation ceremony when children who have been baptized as infants, make an adult commitment to Christianity at the age of 12 or 13.

Margie| 4.19.11 @ 5:32PM

Well said. And you simply stated that it isn't Biblical, so proving it's wrong, and silly.

If a Christian thinks that a baby or a child isn't going to Heaven when they die, how enlightened can they truly be?

All you have to do is read the Bible and see that Jesus says that the Kingdom of God belongs to the children.

It's just sad that so many silly things are passed down from generation to generation that are completely unnecessary!

THESE are what are called the traditions of men and not God that Paul warned us about not listening to.

mames| 4.16.11 @ 6:19PM

Romans teach an "infused" grace rather than an "inputed" grace. God indeed provides salvation in Roman teaching but through a process of infused grace resulting in good works. We Protestants believe that faith is a gift given by God through His Word and that faith trusts in the objective work of Christ. Catholics have no comfort when trying to determine if they have enough grace yet to be saved. The confidence of salvation is not objective it is subjective causing one to look inside to see if they have grown in grace sufficient to be saved. Even the strongest Christian will find no peace there. Therefore the logical doctrine of purgatory, more time to grow in grace.

victor| 4.17.11 @ 12:42PM

And "purgatory" isn't in the Bible, it also is a false created doctrine. Just one of the many.

Herb| 4.15.11 @ 10:08AM

There's no more "nobility" accruing to this old Marxist trout than there was to the Berrigans. The religious left ignored all that was evil about the communist world while trying to get that speck out of the eye of the free world.

How much time does this aging leftwing showboat have in the soupkitchen serving line?

Frankly, I hope someday this "priest" gets run over by a nuclear powered Chevrolet made in Israel and driven by R. Emmett Tyrell.

Bill| 4.15.11 @ 10:30AM

The dinosaurs in the last herd one by one lie down and breathe their last. Soon they will be gone, leaving their domain to those who come up in their place.

Petronius| 4.15.11 @ 10:51AM

I've seen enough priests who want to be God. These losers go through the seminary and get ordained so they won't have to compete in the real world. Some Sundays I'd hear a homily from the likes of him. Then I'd tear open my envelope, remove the check, and put it into the collection basket empty. When this 60's recidivist gets to Hell, I'm putting his sorry arse in the Rush Room. The Prefect of the Congregation in Rome should issue a directive that all candidates for ordination be economically literate Men.

CalMark| 4.15.11 @ 2:11PM

Marxist priests rant hate and venom from the pulpit, and think nothing of condemning the people in the pews.

Comfortably-housed, well-fed (in some cases, EXTREMELY well-fed), and boundlessly arrogant, they are completely divorced from reality and (seemingly) from their primary mission.

JRGIERLACH| 4.15.11 @ 2:12PM

While I was assigned to SOA and WHINSEC, we went out of our way to accomodate the lefty Loons. We attempted to schedule discussions between WHINSEC Cadre, students and protestors. We were then accused of presenting Potemkin Villages, since we regularly worked Mon-Friday schedules and the protestors were only there in large numbers over Sat-Sunday. Some of the Civilain WHINSEC employees and Military Dependents engaged the protestors away from the Ft Benning Gates in order to try and understand why the kids (college age overwhelmingly) were protesting. 75 percent were present because their superannuated lefty professors offered credit for attending the protest and writing variously 1-3 page papers, and the other 25 percent came along for the party. Almost none were aware of the paucity of the Left Rev Roy's evidence against first SOA, then WHINSEC, nor were they aware that he had (allegedly) supported the communist revolutionaries in El Salvador as a medic in the 70s.

CalMark| 4.15.11 @ 2:18PM

MODERATOR:
Please do something about these ugly, ugly name-calling religious debates.

The zealots hover like vultures, swooping down on religious-flavored AS articles to condemn, in chest-thumping "Christian" fashion, whatever denomination they happen to despise.

Doctor Right| 4.15.11 @ 6:25PM

Oh, CalMark...settle down, please. Don't be such a wet-blanket.

Margie| 4.15.11 @ 6:35PM

Your name calling is duly noted, CalMark! :^)

Ted| 4.15.11 @ 11:38PM

Personally I like them. They can be enlightening. Of course there is some silliness... But the majority who engage in the debate seem to do so in good faith. And Doctor (mostly) Right is right... Stop being a wet blanket.

CalMark| 4.16.11 @ 6:54PM

Goodness. These self-styled saints defame with vile names any Christians with whom they disagree then praise themselves as God's true and only servants.

Then condemn me for "name-calling" and being a "wet blanket. " Hm.

Clint| 4.15.11 @ 10:09PM

This Pair of Lapsed Catholics, Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie & Doctor Reich with Their Ax To Grind, never seem to miss Their Obsessive Agenda to Badmouth Catholics.

Margie| 4.15.11 @ 10:15PM

Your toilet mouth is a fine reflection of the Catholic "faith", I'm sure.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 5:25AM

Your A Fraud Christian Poseur , with A Bigot Agenda, using God & Jesus & Religion, as a Front To Carry Out Your Personal Bigoted Agenda.

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 3:23PM

My agenda is to do the will of God, according to His Words that are written in the Bible.

Your agenda is to stalk me and lie about me.
Suit yourself, but you already know that liars go to Hell.
Along with slanderers and those who hate Christians.
God loves those who hate evil~ and you represent it just fine.

"Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and every one who loves and practices falsehood." Rev. 22:15.

Outside where? Outside the Gates of Heaven.
Do you even read the Bible?

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 7:19PM

Your Agenda, Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie is to Front God, Jesus & Christianity for Your Personal Bigoted Anti-Catholic & Anti-Everybody Else's Religions Agenda.

victor| 4.17.11 @ 2:30AM

And your Agenda, Apoplectic CrankShaft Dipstick Clint/Timmy* is an affront to God, Jesus & Christianity on account of your Personal Bigoted Anti-Christian, Anti-Semitic, Anti-Israel Religions Agenda.

God hates Religious Mumbo-Jumbo, mindless ritualistic legalisms.
Read the following and tell me that God loves your Religion.

Isa 1:13-17
"Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and sabbath and the calling of assemblies--I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.
Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates; they have become a burden to me, I am weary of bearing them.
When you spread forth your hands, I will hide my eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; your hands are full of blood.
Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your doings from before my eyes; cease to do evil,
learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; defend the fatherless, plead for the widow."

Ryan| 4.18.11 @ 8:26AM

Here we go again...

Mark30339| 4.15.11 @ 10:38PM

Fr. Roy was right to raise serious objections to the School of the Americas, since graduates of that school were linked to murders in Central America (including the murder of priests and nuns in El Salvador). He is also within his rights to petition the government to close the school (in 1999 the objections were serious enough to cause the House of Representatives to pass a bill closing the school).

It is disingenuous to minimize his work on raising awareness about this flawed institute by saying it appears that no murderers seem to be graduating now.

I would agree however, that Fr. Roy's gambit on the ordination of women is quixotic and puzzling. Maybe it's because a more nuanced approach would seem to be in order. I could not encourage women of faith to engage in a process that leads to their excommunication.

I've been a married man since my early 20's and so, like women, I am similarly barred from the priesthood. I hardly think that is what has stopped me from being a spectacular Christian. And in my view, the exclusion of married men from the priestly ranks has contributed to a cleric culture that could not prevent abuse, confront abuse or even stop the cover-up of abuse among its own. But I commend the Church for reforms now in place to both confront and prevent such abuse, so I don't see these scandals as a useful launching point for female ordination (or the ordination of married males). Fr. Roy's all-in embrace of the female ordination cause seems like a strange luxury given the pressing issues of poverty, human trafficking, and the tyrannical lack of religious freedom in places like China and many Islamic states.

Margie| 4.15.11 @ 11:04PM

The Bible says nothing about Christians not being allowed to Marry, and in fact Paul says it is better to Marry than to burn with passion.

"But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion." 1 Cor. 7:9.

The Bible also says that all Christian men are priests.

"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light." 1 Pe. 2:9.

This is why God hates Religion. It puts many heavy burdens upon us which He does not approve of.
That's Religion with a capital 'R'.

Read Is. chapter one about He He cannot stand solemn assembly and such.

Religion as defined by the Bible is simply this:

"Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world." Jam. 1:27.

If that's what you're actually doing, sir~ then you ARE a faithful priest of God!

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 7:16AM

"Although most people are at some point in their lives called to the married state, the vocation of celibacy is explicitly advocated—as well as practiced—by both Jesus and Paul.

So far from "commanding" marriage in 1 Corinthians 7, in that very chapter Paul actually endorses celibacy for those capable of it: "To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion" (7:8-9).

It is only because of this "temptation to immorality" (7:2) that Paul gives the teaching about each man and woman having a spouse and giving each other their "conjugal rights" (7:3); he specifically clarifies, "I say this by way of concession, not of command. I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another" (7:6-7, emphasis added).

Paul even goes on to make a case for preferring celibacy to marriage: "Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage. . . those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. . . . The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband" (7:27-34).

Paul’s conclusion: He who marries "does well; and he who refrains from marriage will do better" (7:38).

Paul was not the first apostle to conclude that celibacy is, in some sense, "better" than marriage. After Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 19 on divorce and remarriage, the disciples exclaimed, "If such is the case between a man and his wife, it is better not to marry" (Matt 19:10). This remark prompted Jesus’ teaching on the value of celibacy "for the sake of the kingdom":

"Not all can accept this word, but only those to whom it is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it" (Matt. 19:11–12). "

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 3:30PM

The fact is that the Catholic church actually forbids Marriage for its "Priests".

You read the above verse where God tells us who are priests~ His Words are to be listened to. A priest is any Christian brother, not someone "ordained" by a Religion.

The Bible (God speaking) says this about the forbidding of Marriage:

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, through the pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and enjoin abstinence from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving; for then it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer." 1 Tim. 4:1-5.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 4:45PM

Apocalyptic Crank Lady Margie is a Lapsed Catholic with an ax to grind.
She thinks Her Personal Biblical Eisegesis Interpretation Religion of Margie
dictates to the rest of Us, Catholics, Lutherans, Epiiscopalians, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Etc.

" Fundamentalist attacks on priestly celibacy come in a number of different forms—not all compatible with one another. There is almost no other subject about which so many different confusions exist.

The first and most basic confusion is thinking of priestly celibacy as a dogma or doctrine—a central and irreformable part of the faith, believed by Catholics to come from Jesus and the apostles. Thus some Fundamentalists make a great deal of a biblical reference to Peter’s mother-in-law (Mark 1:30), apparently supposing that, if Catholics only knew that Peter had been married, they would be unable to regard him as the first pope. Again, Fundamentalist time lines of "Catholic inventions" (a popular literary form) assign "mandatory priestly celibacy" to this or that year in Church history, as if prior to this requirement the Church could not have been Catholic.

These Fundamentalists are often surprised to learn that even today celibacy is not the rule for all Catholic priests. In fact, for Eastern Rite Catholics, married priests are the norm, just as they are for Orthodox and Oriental Christians.

Even in the Eastern churches, though, there have always been some restrictions on marriage and ordination. Although married men may become priests, unmarried priests may not marry, and married priests, if widowed, may not remarry. Moreover, there is an ancient Eastern discipline of choosing bishops from the ranks of the celibate monks, so their bishops are all unmarried.

The tradition in the Western or Latin-Rite Church has been for priests as well as bishops to take vows of celibacy, a rule that has been firmly in place since the early Middle Ages. Even today, though, exceptions are made. For example, there are married Latin-Rite priests who are converts from Lutheranism and Episcopalianism.

As these variations and exceptions indicate, priestly celibacy is not an unchangeable dogma but a disciplinary rule. The fact that Peter was married is no more contrary to the Catholic faith than the fact that the pastor of the nearest Maronite Catholic church is married."

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 4:57PM

Sorry Clint?Tim* but you're lying again. Say, aren't you a White Nationalist and anti-semite, along with an individual who looks me up online to see where I live and posts it, in order to threaten me?

Not to mention that you slander God's Truth by slandering His own Words and disagreeing with them?

Bibles are easily found in Christian stores everywhere.

1 Tim. 4:1-5 is God's own Words.

Each person must choose whom to obey~ God or hearsay.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 5:07PM

You're A Slandering Liar Apocalyptic Crank Lady Margie.

Aaaand, DUUUUHHHHH !

You Posted that You lived in Joisey & then in Mike Fitzpatrick's Bucks County District.

Now, Hypocrite Bigot Apocalyptic Crank Lady Margie, Tell All The American Spectator Readers where You say Practicing Jews & Muslims go when they die.

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 5:29PM

Nope, never posted any such thing about Bucks county.
You are delusional, but then we already knew that.

Now answer the question~ Are you a White Nationalist? Everyone already knows you are an anti-semite and a stalker and maligner of conservatives here who speak the truth clearly, whether it be about Ron Paul or the Bible.

Your status is known to all that have eyes to see and ears to hear, Clint/Tim*.

I hope you repent before you die. Read the Bible, it might do you some good.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 5:47PM

Let's See here. Are You now saying that You were " Not " posting under The Nom De Plume , "Truth Is King" and some Poseur wrote,

"Truth Is King| 4.14.11 @ 5:47PM

The people on this list are real representatives. I personally will keep this list in mind when November of 2012 comes. I will not fund any House member not found on this list & my own "House rep", Mike Fitzpatrick from PA, who was elected last November is not on this list. Hope he is primaried because I won't support him for going along with this ruse. Too many elected last November have fallen in with the "ruling class" in The Stupid Party which is obvious from this vote."

You're Up Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 5:50PM

Aaaand, who wrote this Post Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie ?

A Poseur ?

Truth is King| 4.14.11 @ 6:45PM

Glad you came back, I was afraid I ran you off. :^).
Happy to oblige, you may keep the name. If I decide to post here again, I will use my original name. (Margie).

As to your below post~ I agree with you that a government that funds Planned Parenthood is aligned against God. Did they keep the funding for this in?

The "stupid party" may be stupid, but the Democrat party is evil. I'm into destroying the democrat Socialist rule and the only way we have to do that is by continuing to elect conservatives to the Republican party~ and continue making our voices heard. Vote the weak ones out and the strong ones in.

Take care & keep up the good attitude!!
~Margie

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 6:06PM

LOL, if you really think anyone is interested in your attempts at slander, I really doubt you'd be correct, Clint/Tim*.

How low can you go?

Yes, I offered the poster "God is Truth" to take my name, and he/she did. That was my post.

After he/she took it, they posted a few things, of which you wrongly attributed to me.

It's really none of your business, but are you having a good day today spewing your venom and lies?

Your father the Devil is pleased with you.

Read the Bible, the implanted Word is able to save your soul.

"Therefore put away all filthiness and rank growth of wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls." Jas. 1:21.

I bet you didn't even know that.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 6:31PM

Let's Review Here Anti-Catholic Apocalyptic Crank Lady Margie.

Anti-Catholic Apocalyptic Crank Lady Margie Posts as "Truth Is King ", but then gives Her Nom de Plume to "God Is Truth ", Who Now Posts under Apocalyptic Crank Lady Margie's Nom De Plume.
Meanwhile, The Mysterious "Victor' , posts & claims He's Apocalyptic Crank Lady Margie's Tag Team Hubby.

See A Therapist & A Religious Counselor NutBag Religious Bigot Victor-Margie.

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 6:42PM

Grasping... keep grasping........
Poor, poor soul.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 7:23PM

Keep Up Your Zany Crazed Screwball Political & Religions Bigotry & You'll Get Grasped by the Attendants at The New Jersey Institute For The Criminally Insane.

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 5:00PM

Oh, and I'm not a lapsed Catholic. I'm a Christian saved by Grace.
Thankfully, I am not bound by any man made Religion, but am free in Christ. Free to listen to and obey Him, and not the traditions of men.

As it is written:

"You leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men." Mk. 7:8.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 5:12PM

You're An Obsessed Fixated Angry Hypocrite NutBag Apocalyptic Crank Lady Margie, who fronts Jesus, God & Christianity to attack other people's Religion & Politics & carry Out Your Own Personal Agenda.

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 5:30PM

I'm sorry, Clint/Tim*, but I do believe you're projecting again.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 5:56PM

That's because You're A Sociopath Fanatic Hypocrite , Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie , who is Using God, Jesus & Christianity To Front For Your Own Angry Agenda.

See A Religious Counselor & A Therapist.

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 6:07PM

See Jesus, He has a plan for you, to save you from yourself.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 6:20PM

More Advice from Anti-Catholic, Anti-Everybody Else's Religious Bigot NutBag Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 6:30PM

Really. He is the Great Physician. And you are in need of a doctor.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 6:40PM

Really. Schedule Your Own Appointment with God, Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie, You're A Sociopathic Flagrant Fanatic Religious Hypocrite Bus callin' a Lemon Pie, Yellow.

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 6:43PM

So, you're not a White Nationalist, Clint/Tim*?

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 7:01PM

No !
I Am A Tea Party Patriot, Registered Republican And The Son Of A Recon-Ranger Commander, who's Troopers liberated one of the Nazi Concentration Camps along The Ist Army's line of march.
Don't You ever call Me A Nazi again You Crazy-Assed Israel Firster Smear Artist Joisey White Trash Piece Of Garbage, Apocalyptic Crank Lady Margie.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 7:07PM

Now, Religious Bigot Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie ,Tell All The American Spectator Readers, where You say Practicing Jews & Muslims Go when They Die & after You get done using them for Your Apocalyptic Agenda.

You're Up Apocalyptic Crank Lady Religious Bigot Victor-Margie.

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 7:20PM

I doubt your father was an anti-semite like you, but who knows? Your posts are filled with anti-semitism and everyone knows that.

And you always back the anti-semitic who post here, and you call me white trash constantly, along with other filthy names, so your posts speak for themselves.

If you don't want to be thought of as same, I suggest you repent and apologize.
You just told me to never call you a White Nationalist and then continue to call me white trash.

You're insane.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 9:33PM

Actually, Joisey White Trash Bigot Broad, American Spectator Readers Know That You Crawl Out From Under Your Rock to Attack Catholicism & Attempt to Use God, Jesus, and Christianity to Front Your NastyAss Fanatic Sociopathic Personal Anti-Catholic, Anti- Everyone Else's Religion Political/Religion Agenda,Which You Attempt Force Stuff Onto Others.

I Merely Help You To Expose Yourself For The Joisey White Trash Pig That You Are.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 9:39PM

Now, Tell All The American Spectator Readers where You Say Practicing Jews & Muslims Go When They Die, Joisey White Trash Bigot Piece Of Garbage, Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.

What's The Matter "Truth Is King " Can't Expose Your Bigoted Version Of The Fate Of All These Decent & Good Practicing Jews & Muslims?

victor| 4.17.11 @ 2:34AM

Hey Clintie,

Why don't you tell us where the practicing pervert pedophile priests go when THEY die.

Oh, that's right, you have said that they go to Heaven.

victor| 4.17.11 @ 12:46PM

Clint/Tim* actually believes he is doing a service.
Yet he does nothing but personally attack a Bible believing Christian that quotes the Words of God in order to prove the false doctrines of Catholicism.

Yes, you prove who you are, and I prove who I am.

One of us is correct, and one of us is on his way to Hell.

Ryan| 4.18.11 @ 8:32AM

As a Pharisee, Paul may have actually been married at one time (that's more of an inference from scripture rather than explicit).

Peter was definitely married.

craig hill| 4.15.11 @ 11:27PM

Too bad Tooley is a tool of the liars he mimics: Venezuela is a democracy, Chavez has undergone 13 elections, not all of which he has won, and it is the Big Pig US that backs that which it has become, the biggest banana republic of them all, allowing defense contractors to own, control and program the software that controls touch-screen vpting machines, which EASILY insure no one who is against war, invasion, occupation and piracy will be elected in numbers that could stop the recolonization of the world; and Tooley is their lying tool.

Slingshot| 4.16.11 @ 2:57AM

There are no "female priests." There are priestesses.

Dee See| 4.16.11 @ 3:55AM

Even genuine, pre-Rockefeller eugenics
infiltration, Catholic scholarship will tell
you about the deadly character of Arminianism.

They even acknowlege a deep debt to John Calvin.

Arminian/Pelagianism was originally a scourge
of Catholicism, a millenium ago.

Remember, the threats to Christianity have always been primarily from within the church.

"Reasonableness' and 'empathy' are the weapons
of choice. Always have been.

"---Ye shall not surely die."

The only scene of Christ himself flying into
rage was within the temple itself. The temple
infested and corrupted by the money-changers
and the false and toxic claims of the scholastics
and lawyers.

As we're all going down for the count we still hear
hardly a single outraged peep from our sedated,
bought off, 'get along, go along' clergy.

"Understand, we are living in the very middle
of the worst war the world has ever seen."
-ALAN WATT
(online)

UNDERSTAND ------------------------------fast!

Ryan| 4.18.11 @ 8:32AM

It would be easier if you would engage, rather than fly-by-night rambling postings. You're not convincing me.

Alan Brooks| 4.16.11 @ 9:44AM

At least the guy's name is Bourgeois- wouldn't you be nervous if his name were proletariat?.

Darragh| 4.16.11 @ 11:43AM

I'm glad the Church is trending rightward. Catholics--indeed, all Christians, will need as much strength and integrity as possible in coming years. Interestingly, I attended Ash Wednesday services at St. Paul's in Harvard Square--it was jammed with young people. And that was just one of many Masses that day.

Dr. Left| 4.16.11 @ 3:10PM

Questions for Margie/Dr. Right,
1. Who wrote the Bible? Name the authors.
2. Who translated it from the original to the version you quote from?
3. Do you have to interpret any part of the Bible, or is it all cystal clear that there is no room for debate or disagreement? Do we accept all parts as literally true?

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 4:50PM

1. The Spirit of God.
2. Men
3. The Bible interprets itself, ie. there is a reference for every single verse in the New Testament in the Old, and vise-versa.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 5:31PM

"Exegesis is what comes out of the Bible, as against what gets read into it. (Of course, the ways we use to find out from the Bible are often merely ways to put something into it 'between the lines'. That's really eisegesis in a Halloween costume.) In a more theological setting, exegesis means what comes from the use of certain methods of studying the Bible. Just about every imaginable method already has a name, and there are all sorts of mixes, but the main types are :

* historical (using the form, word choices, editing work, historical context, main themes, and so on, to find what it meant back when it was written or when it happened),
* canonical (treating the Bible as an whole document designed to be what a specific community lives by),
* symbolic/allegorical (figuring out what each character and event represents),
* rational (thinking it through using logic and deductive technique).

Most Bible students use most of the methods in their own way at some time, even if they don't think they do. All of them are often helpful, sometimes not at all helpful, and occasionally downright deceptive. It's best to see all methods as tools for the Bible student to use prayerfully, rather than as rules to follow or conclusions ('scholarly consensus') that one must accept. There are many angles and facets to most passages of Scripture, and the different methods can help you get at more of them.

If you aren't doing some kind of exegesis, you are not finding out what the writings themselves are saying. But what good is knowing eternal truth if it doesn't matter to you? Thus, exegesis is just one important step in studying the Bible; there also needs to be hermeneutics"

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 6:27PM

"First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." 2 Pe. 1:20 & 21.

Since God's own Words say that His own Words aren't a MATTER of interpretation, it means just that.

The Bible interprets itself.

"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." 2 Tim. 3:16 & 17.

I'm not sure where you get your psycho-babble from, but I listen to God's own Words. They actually make sense.

Some haughty Religion has no power of me, or any Christian for that matter. The Catholic Religion put how many people to death for even attempting to read the Bible on their own? It's history!
And apparently you still carry the old water filled with pure hatred toward Bible believing Christians.

I am sure if you could, you would crucify me upside down. like they did to their victims. I stand with my brethren the martyrs and say that God's own Words are to be read, enjoyed, and obeyed by everyone, and that they are allowed to be free to do so in Christ.

(See William Tyndale).

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 6:50PM

Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie Is The Mother of Eisegesis Interpretation of The Bible and comes to American Spectator To Front God, Jesus & Christianity for Her Own Eisegesis Interpretation of The Bible.

Do Your Homework.
William Tynsdale was put to death due to to the efforts of The Church Of England's Henry VIII's henchman.

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 7:12PM

The Catholic church put to death thousands of Bible believing Christians for attempting to even read the Bible on their own. The Anglican church was Catholic before Henry tried to be divorced, and they still worshipped a Pope. No difference.

Liars like you are born of such a false Religion, and "practice" the same hatred to this very day.

Since history is fact, I suggest to anyone reading, do your own research. Who are you following? God's Truth, as written in His own Words, or a lie?

Here's the account:

http://www.tyndale.org/DeCoursey/life.html

And another:

http://www.christian-history.o.....ution.html

You can see how the persecutors spoke to the Christian in the same manner as Clint/Tim* does to me for standing on the Bible.

How sad.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 7:32PM

You're An Anti-Catholic Religious Bigot Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.

Henry VII Split The Church Of England away from The Catholic Church And The Pope's Authority.

Don't attempt to Rewrite History to fit Your Zany Crazed Anti-Catholic Agenda.

"King Henry VIII is responsible for the deaths of over 70,000 Catholics including hundreds of priests and Bishops.

Queen Elizabeth I, had thousands of Catholics put to death in England. She ordered that Catholic Mary Queen of Scots be executed in 1587. She had thousands more killed in Ireland.

Oliver Cromwell is responsible for starting the English civil war and the subsequent beheading of Catholic King Charles I, and for the killing of thousands of Catholics in that war of 1642-1649.

Thousands of Catholics were murdered in Ireland by the English in the 19th century simply because they attended the Catholic Mass. The Protestant English redcoats were also responsible for confiscating the food from the Irish people and for leaving them only with potatoes which were blighted and unfit to eat. In the mid 19th century this caused the deaths by starvation of an estimated 1-1.5 million Irish Catholics, and the emigration of about 2 million more. It was a case of either leave the country or die of starvation."

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 7:38PM

Anyone can read the history of the persecutions by this Religion.
Anyone who has eyes and wants to see the truth.

I have not lied, nor misrepresented anything. I have spoken the Words of God, as written in the Bible, and you vehemently object and spew filthy names.

It shows exactly who you are, and whom you worship.

Your father, the Devil.

As I said, he is most pleased with you.

"Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap." Gal. 6:7.

"And if you be unwilling to serve the LORD, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Jos. 24:15.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 7:58PM

Spoken like The Sociopathic Fanatic Faux Christian You Are Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.

You "Use " God, Jesus, Christianity & Other People's Religions to Front Your Personal Psychotic Fixated Religious & Political Agenda.

You're A Joisey White Trash Bigot Broad.

victor| 4.17.11 @ 3:04AM

Clint/Timmy*:
"Henry VII Split The Church Of England away from The Catholic Church And The Pope's Authority."

That was in 1634.
In defiance of the Pope the Church of England was now under Henry’s control, not Rome's. Protestant
Reformers still faced persecution, particularly over objections to Henry's annulment. Many fled abroad where they met further difficulties, including the influential William Tyndale, who was eventually burned at King Henry's behest.

Now let's back up a bit, shall we?

In 1523, Tyndale determined to translate the Bible into English, convinced that the way to God was through His word and that scripture should be available even to common people.

Cardinal Wolsey, Lord Chancellor, the King's chief adviser, condemned Tyndale as a heretic, being first mentioned in open court as a heretic in January 1529.

In 1530 King Henry VIII aimed his wrath at Tyndale: Henry asked the emperor Charles V to have the writer apprehended and returned to England.
This was while Henry VIII was still a Roman Catholic.

It was not until a year or two later that Henry VIII renounced the authority of the Roman Papacy.
Henry had in effect declared himself the head of his own church.

There is not difference between the Church of Rome and the Church of England.
In effect, Henry was a pope-less catholic.

He persecuted Christians as much as the pope in Rome did.

Dr. Left| 4.17.11 @ 12:04PM

to "Margie/Victor/Dr.Right"
1. How did the Spirit of God write the Bible? Was someone taking dictation and writing it word for word from the spirit? Seriously, who wrote it, if you do not know, say I don't know.
2. How can the Bible interpret itself? You mean you interpret it the way you choose for your purposes,
3. What about the Jews, are they practicing a false religion since they do not subscribe to your Bible?

victor| 4.17.11 @ 12:48PM

1. How do you know you exist?
2. If you exist, do you think you have eyes to read and a mind to understand?
3.And Clint/Tim*, you really don't hide very well.

Alan Brooks| 4.16.11 @ 4:07PM

If Jesus saves
well he'd better save himself
from the gory glory seekers
who would use his name in death

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 4:53PM

Hi Alan,

"But let him who glories glory in this,
that he understands and knows Me, that I
am Jehovah, doing kindness, judgment and
righteousness in the earth; for I delight in
these." Jer. 9:24.

Hector| 4.16.11 @ 5:51PM

Wow, this sure brought out a lot of crazies. I'll admit I only skimmed the posts after reading enough to confirm their low quality but I did read enough confidently to nominate Dr. Right as the one commentator who would benefit most by putting down the jug and taking a nap. My apologies to all the other coots, nut cases, buffoons, morons, old bastards and radical Protestants (but I repeat myself) that I may have slighted. If you are in Dr. Right's league - to your shame - you know who you are. It must suck to be you. Have a marvelous day!

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 6:29PM

Another sweet Catholic, I presume?

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 6:52PM

American Spectator Readers have Your Number Religious Bigot Apocalyptic Crank Lady Margie.

So Does God.

Margie| 4.16.11 @ 7:00PM

So, Clint/Tim*,

Are you a White Nationalist?

Yes, God has my number, and I am very, very thankful that He loves me and that I am not able to be snatched from His Hand by anyone or anything.

I hope you repent.

Clint| 4.16.11 @ 9:45PM

Asked & Answered Anti-Catholic Joisey White Trash Bigot Broad. Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.

Now, Tell All The Practicing Jews & Muslims Where You Say They Go When Theey Die.

We Note How "Truth Is King" Joisey Bigot Pig Becomes The Court Fool When We Challenge Her Bigoted Views About Others' Religions.

Answer The Question.

victor| 4.17.11 @ 3:06AM

Clint/Timmy*:
"Answer The Question."

Yes, answer the question:
Are you a White Nationalist?

Margie| 4.17.11 @ 3:42PM

The Court Fool. You indeed sound exactly like the Catholics from old who threw to the lions the Christians who dared confront them with the Scriptures.

You reject God's own Words.
In place of a false Religion who teaches that no matter how filthy and perverted you are, you are allowed into His Kingdom.

Just as the persecutors of Bible believing Christians will be risen from the dead on that Day to give an account for their atrocities, so will you be called to account for your blasphemous hatred toward Him and His.

"What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will live in them and move among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Therefore come out from them, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch nothing unclean; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty." 2 Cor. 6:16-18.

I came out from among filth like you. Nothing can affect me, except from without. Though the Bible believing and PROFESSING Christians were tortured and killed by scum like you~ though their bodies were destroyed as you would like to do to me~ they went to be with Jesus, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords in Heaven.

As it is written:

"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, "For thy sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom. 8:25-39.

For as you said in another thread here just today, "If you were on fire, I wouldn't walk across the street to piss on you to put it out."

God is going to put out the fire that is you. That is what He does to worms.

Alan Brooks| 4.17.11 @ 2:38AM

Clint is funny, though:
"Asshat ApocalypseNow CrankLady Israeli Firster Golda Meir-- Take Da New Joisey Toinpike;
Meet Me at Da Corner Of Toity Toid Street And Toid Avenue..."

Alan Brooks| 4.17.11 @ 2:40AM

Israeli-firster?:
why, Ben Gurion of course!

Alan Brooks| 4.17.11 @ 2:45AM

Clint,
sorry to post 3 times in a row, but have to know one thing:
am I an asshat or a nutbag?

Alan Brooks| 4.17.11 @ 9:37AM

...to save you the trouble, Clint, I'll do the insulting for you:

Alan-Asshat Brooksbag Tele Tubby Tinkie Winkie Hirohito Flat On My Seato!

Richard Baker| 4.17.11 @ 9:58AM

To those of you who endlessly bring up Tyndale, Huss, and all those martyred in the 16th -17th Centuries by the then-Catholic Church, what year is it presently? Margie, unfortunately, your tirades are an example of the same destructive nonsense presently exhibited by the devotees of Islam. If I, as a Catholic, worship God in my fashion, what business is it of yours? The Lord will tell me on Judgement Day if I was wrong. Are you God?

victor| 4.17.11 @ 1:04PM

You judge wrongly. How can quoting the Words of God Himself in order to show that what He says is what everyone ought to be listening to, and not false doctrine be anything like Islam?

If you judge a Christian as such for preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ in such a way then not only can you not be a Christian, but you join the ranks of the Catholics of old who hated and destroyed the Bible believing Christians.

You, like the resident low-life Clint/Tim* think you can mock and insult and lie and judge Christians who believe the Words of God rather than worship a Pope or a false Religion are the liars.

Jesus Christ says He is the Way, the Truth and the Life, and that no one comes to the Father but by Him. Jn. 14:6.

There is no grace given through the Catholic church ~ it is given through Jesus Christ.

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of Grace and Truth; we have beheld His Glory, Glory as of the only Son from the Father.: Jn 1:14.

Catholicism teaches you can save yourself if you try hard enough and repeat words as prayers and if you go to church on Sunday and all kinds of wrong teachings that are not in the Bible.

My purpose as a Christian is to speak the truth, from the Bible, and in a discussion like this I am as free to speak as any Catholic who wishes to beat the doo-doo out of me for daring to do so.

I judge no one, but God's Words do. He says that unless we continue in His Word we aren't His disciples.

"Jesus then said to the Jews who had believed in him, "If you continue in My Word, you are truly My disciples, and you will know the Truth, and the Truth will make you free." Jn. 8:31 & 32.

It has to be continuing in His Word, not the word of the Pope, not the word of any man or Religion who speaks anything but His word.

Jesus Himself saves, not the church.

And are YOU God? Do you really think you can tell Him the way you choose to worship is ok?

He says how He must be worshipped, and it's through Him directly, not through false Religion that teaches false doctrine.

If you were a Christian, you would agree with His words, instead of reject them in place of a comfortable Religion that tells you that no matter what you do in this life you can still go to Heaven.

It's a lie.

doolittle| 4.17.11 @ 11:15AM

is there any record or proof thereof that Christ actually put down on parchment or whatever, any part of what He is quoted as having uttered? It appears that so much of the arguments revolve around interpretation of what He said (or did not say). And after translation and re-translation into various languages, how can ANYONE claim to know what the original words were! Perhaps a little less argument and a little more attention to good works and doing your best to behave as you THINK Christ meant for you/us to do would be a good idea, without worrying about how your neighbor believes..that will, in the end be between him and his God.

victor| 4.17.11 @ 1:16PM

God isn't a God of confusion, doolittle, and it IS really possible to know His Words.
There exists the original languages Hebrew and Greek translations from original documents.

You CAN know what He says, and it IS available. There is a wonderful Bible, called an interlinear Bible, that contains the original languages, and literal translations from them into English. coded with Strong's concordance numbers.

Go here:
http://www.sgpbooks.com/cubeca.....d_672.html

True that there are a lot of different versions, and they have been horribly watered down over the centuries, but God's Words remain the same.

There is a book co-authored by Jay P. Green who also put out the above Bible, called "Unholy Hands on the Bible."

It is sold at the above website, and speaks to the issue you mention. I think you would find it extremely enlightening.

doolittle| 4.17.11 @ 4:50PM

but still, weren't the authors of all these writings mere mortals, writing years after the events. which they didn't actually witness? I'm not trying to deny anything, merely suggesting that many people find what they want to find, and read into the Bible what they want to read.

Margie| 4.17.11 @ 7:11PM

Well, the author of the Bible is God, and men that were moved by His Holy Spirit.

God arranged for us to have His Words in order for us to learn of Him, and though the men who have translated the words into English are sinners like the rest of us, God's Words are still perfect.

Even if you take all of the versions that are out there and compare them (and one website you can do that on is blueletterbible.com) you can see how they all say basically the same thing.

That's basically the same thing, but the differences are very, very important and some versions are outright horrible. The King James was about the closest to the original but even that wasn't perfect.

The Interlinear Bible I mentioned above is beautiful! Jay P. Green (who recently went to be with Jesus) undertook to painstakingly translate using the original texts, and as honest as he possibly could (and he was a godly Christian man) put together this Bible.

For example, John 3:3 in most old versions say "Unless you are born anew, you cannot see the Kingdom of God."

From the original Greek it reads,

"Jesus answered and said to him, Truly,
truly, I say to you, If one is not generated
from above, he is not able to see the Kingdom
of God."

So, there is the difference. And each little bit of error or changing of the words should never have been done. So, you see how it is.

Generated from above is what God meant to say, and so it should have been written.

Margie| 4.17.11 @ 7:40PM

Sorry, I should have said in my first paragraph that the Author is God, and men moved by His Spirit spoke from God.

"¶ and we have the more established
prophetic Word, in which you do well to
pay attention, as to a lamp shining in a
murky place, until day dawns and the lightbearing
One rises in your hearts;
knowing this first, that every prophecy
of Scripture did not come into being
of its own interpretation;
for prophecy was not at any time borne
by the will of man, but being borne along
by the Holy Spirit, holy men of God spoke."
2 Pe. 1:19-21.

That is God's truth. He says that the Bible isn't a matter of anyone's interpretation.
He made it so that anyone could read His Words themselves, and for anyone who honestly seeks Him, and asks for His Spirit to live inside, He promises to give to them, and their spiritual eyes will be opened to know Him and understand His Words.

"God is spirit, and the ones worshiping
Him must worship in spirit and truth." Jn. 4:24.

"And what father of you, if the son asks
for bread, will he give him a stone? And if
a fish, will he give him a snake instead of
a fish?
And if he should ask an egg, will he
give him a scorpion?
Then if you being evil know to give
good gifts to your children, how much
more the Father out of Heaven will give
the Holy Spirit to the ones asking Him." Lk. 11:11-13.

This is God and He speaks plainly. He says that anyone who wants to know Him, can simply ask, and His Spirit will be given.

The catholic Religion started out from the beginning wrongly teaching, and saying that salvation comes through the "church". Through "sacraments" of which there is no such thing in the Bible!

It also added books to the Bible that were not written by the Spirit of God, but by men who were not the Apostles. This is called the "Apochrypha".

They also used to actually kill Christians for trying to read the Bible on their own.
You can see the behavior of some who post here, haughty Catholics who try and say the same thing~ that only "the church" knows and only "the church" has any authority, which is a blatant lie.

The Catholic church actually translated the Bible into Latin, instead of the original Hebrew and Greek it was written in, so that only the church hierarchy could read it, and the church members were not permitted, and as I said, were put to death.

The Religion has never repented from their false teachings to this day:

Praying to the dead.
Saying Mary was sinless.
That Communion is the actual re-sacrificing of Christ each time it's taken and that the bread and wine actually turns in to His physical body and blood.
That a priest has the "power" to forgive sin.
No such thing as a Pope. And he isn't the "vicar of Christ."

The link above spelled out more.

Jesus Christ is the Way to God. Seek Him and you'll be saved from Sin, Death and Hell.

"Jesus says to him, I am the Way, and the
Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the
Father if not through Me." Jn. 14:6.

Ryan| 4.18.11 @ 8:55AM

If you studied how Scripture has been copied and passed down - both the OT and the NT, you'd probably not be asking the question.

Case in point - the Dead Sea Scrolls were, at their discovery, hundreds of years older than any other Hebrew writings we had at the time...and there were practically no differences.

For the NT, it's by FAR too close to the original writings - we actually have scraps that were probably in existence at the same time as the original "autographs" - for serious error to have crept in.

Margie| 4.17.11 @ 4:23PM

For whoever has ears to hear, and eyes to see:

http://www.ianpaisley.org/arti.....lloydjones

PJ| 4.17.11 @ 10:15PM

I have been reading your series of postings & others of your like-mind for this article.

This is what I conclude. Your rantings are full of rage, especially directed to the Catholic Church. Did the people in this church do something horrible to you to warrant such bitterness?

Your postings are full of anger & hatred, forget about the inaccuracies. Do you really expect people of goodwill to agree with such rage & rantings? Most people have kind hearts & are not in the least bit attracted to such venom.

I believe you are very sincere in your beliefs & want to live the best Christian life that you are capable of living. Before you post, you should consider taking a different approach if you want people to be at least sympathetic to your form of Christianity.

I pray that Jesus Christ surrounds you with His peace because you, madam, are in desperate need of it.

Margie| 4.18.11 @ 1:09AM

First of all you're lying.
My posts are not filled with hate or rage.
Your pal Clint/Tim*'s are, though.
It's too bad that you are so blind by your haughtiness, as is he that you don't care about God's own Words.

I have no "form of Christianity", I only speak what the Bible says. That's what Christians do, follow His Words and not false doctrine.

I hope you come to your right mind before it's too late.

Your so haughty~ do you honestly believe you're better than me or something?

I'm sorry for you and your ilk~ you reject God's own Words to hold on to your pride and fraudulent Religion.

Ryan| 4.18.11 @ 8:47AM

I'll give Margie this one. Clint is the one who looks like the jerk here.

Margie| 4.18.11 @ 1:11AM

p.s. And since I posted God's own Words~ where are the "inaccuracies"?

Since I've supposedly made so many of them, it should be easy for you to point out just one.

Richard Baker| 4.18.11 @ 11:53AM

Margie:
As I asked earlier, are you God? Your posts are condescending in the manner of someone who thinks that you're a religious arbiter because...well, you have to be. I find that you're one of those who just has to tell everyone where they're wrong. Using the Bible as a club is NOT the purpose of the book. You and your Sanhedrin members need to cease the endless nagging. I repeat, are you God?

Margie| 4.18.11 @ 1:30PM

Richard,

If you find my posts condescending it's only because I answer to haughty Catholics who think they are God., and vehemently attack me personally when what is my crime? Speaking from Scripture to prove false doctrine taught by the biggest cult in the world?

As I said before, Christians have the authority to speak from Scripture. Just because you don't like it won't stop me.

And you really ought to look in the mirror as to condescension and haughtiness. Not only that, but the charge of using the Bible as a club is a false one. You just can't stand the fact that I'm speaking truth to power, or truth to lies.

Margie| 4.18.11 @ 1:49PM

"And justce is driven back; and righteousness
stands far off; for truth stumbles
in the plaza, and straightness is not able to
enter.
And the truth is lacking; and whoever
turns from evil makes himself a prey. And
Jehovah saw; and it was evil in His eyes,
that there was no justice." Is. 59:14 & 15.

Margie| 4.18.11 @ 2:46PM

"For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men, training us to renounce irreligion and worldly passions, and to live sober, upright, and godly lives in this world, awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify for Himself a people of His own who are zealous for good deeds.
Declare these things; exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you." Tts. 2:12-15.

Richard Baker| 4.19.11 @ 11:18AM

Margie:
It's folks like you and your endless nagging that cause many to totally discount the message of Jesus. Is that what the Gospel is for? To use as a club to drive people AWAY? Obviously, you think so. Sad for you.

Margie| 4.19.11 @ 4:16PM

You're a liar, Richard.

John2| 4.19.11 @ 4:55PM

Does anyone really monitor these threads?
I have not seen such an awful, confused "discussion" in a long time.

Margie| 4.19.11 @ 5:06PM

God monitors each and every word spoken.

John2| 4.19.11 @ 5:18PM

And you are a major contributor to the need. May God do something good for you.

Margie| 4.19.11 @ 5:25PM

He already does, thank you.

winch accessory| 4.20.11 @ 4:23AM

Thank you very much. I am wonderring if I can share your article in the bookmarks of society,Then more friends can talk about this problem.

Ted Majdosz| 5.29.11 @ 12:23AM

"One of the greatest tragedies of modern American politics is the presumption that religion is inherently consevative, that the adjective 'Christian' belongs with the noun "Right', and that God rests with the Republicans,.
These fallacies have fortified a reactionary movement in our public life and have orphaned the millions of believers who put their faith into the quest for equality and jusce."
Samuel G. Freedman

Ted Majdosz| 5.29.11 @ 11:16PM

The torture, rape and killings are still going on in Latin America, see my blog
http://soawvirginia.blogspot.com/

Creative Recreation| 8.10.11 @ 10:15PM

is good