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The War in Wisconsin

By on 2.18.11 @ 9:23AM

The Democratic assault on democracy.


Wisconsin’s State Senate Democrats fled the state on Thursday rather than going to work where their presence would have allowed a vote on state budget cuts and controversial rollbacks of public sector union collective bargaining rights in the state that has had them longer than any other. It’s not the budget vote precisely that they’re avoiding but rather a provision that would essentially strip teachers unions of collective bargaining rights, something no public sector employee should have anyway.

The police were sent, without results, to find even one Democrat to bring back to the Wisconsin State Senate. The leftist Washington Post columnist Greg Sargent spoke to one of the brave Democrats who said they would all stay away until the collective bargaining provision was taken out of the budget.

The War in Wisconsin is, due to its relative simplicity, perhaps the clearest yet demonstration to the American people of three key facts, most of which everyone knows deep down but only a small subset (often called “conservatives” or those evil “libertarians”) actually believe:

• Democrats care more about protecting union wealth and power than any other political goal.

• Democrats care only for outcome, not for rules, process, or even democracy itself if the people inconveniently elect Republicans, and

• The media is made up of partisan Democrats in a way that makes them a reliable source of propaganda and an unreliable source of information.

I thought initially that this issue would be a political winner for Republicans — perhaps even more so outside Wisconsin as we watch the cheesehead spectacle. In fact, if the GOP were smart, they’d make a BIG issue out of teachers taking kids out of school to come protest.

Now I’m nearly sure that it’s a winner for Republicans because Barack Obama has jumped into the fray, suggesting that the move against public sector collective bargaining “seems like an assault on unions.” First, YES! Say it loud and proud! We should (non-physically) assault public sector unions at every turn for the sake of our nation’s economic and political health. Second, and more germane to today, eliminating collective bargaining for public employees is a critical step toward restoring budget sanity to any state.

The left is going all-in to stop this vote, realizing it could be the crack in the dam allowing widespread disallowance of public sector collective bargaining rights, which are one of the key reasons that the past couple of decades has seen the pay of government employees — who have unbelievable job security and benefits — go from somewhat under the private sector to far over the private sector. Obama’s campaign apparatus is busing in people to protest — the old rent-a-mob trick aka “astroturf,” always done by the left and always charged as a ploy of the right. As Quin Hillyer points out, however, the left “want their targets… to feel fear of the mob.”

While many or even most public sector jobs are useful and some are even necessary, public sector unions are neither. They are leeches sucking the blood of the body politic. Actually, that’s unfair to leeches because they know to get off before they kill the host, leaving the host to recover for a later blood-letting. Democrat leaders and unions (sorry for the redundancy) believe that they’re sucking the blood from a host with unlimited supply, or at least one who can be forced to be such as long as unions spend a big percentage of their dues helping Democrats get elected. They must have been shocked to learn that even a host as accustomed to being bled as Wisconsin cried “no more parasites!” in the last election.

Trying to reattach their teeth to the vital pulse of the state, teachers across the state called in sick Thursday and Friday, with some of them encouraging their students to do the same or to walk out of classes. A high school student interviewed on television yesterday marching in front of the state capitol was asked why he was there and he said “to stop whatever it is they’re doing here today.” If that’s the quality of the public education they’re receiving, perhaps there’s a silver lining to the teacher sick-out, but causing kids to hate, and I do mean hate, one political party without giving them any real understanding of an issue is not just bad teaching. It’s immoral, un-American, and unacceptable.

Similar intentional twisting of words and reality was made by Wisconsin Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller, who said that the Democrats had left the State Senate because they were “trying to allow opportunity for democracy to work.” In other words, democracy means “We won the election, we wrote the bill,” as Nancy Pelosi famously said, only when Democrats are in charge. If Republicans have a majority, democracy apparently means thwarting democracy. But then these are people for whom Obamacare means that costs will go down and you can keep your current coverage, so they’re clearly not afraid of living in an Orwellian world in which words mean what you say they mean.

Speaking of Obamacare, if the Republican response to the Democrats’ bribes, “deem and pass,” and misuse of budget reconciliation had been to flee D.C., while one could have understood the impulse (on that or any other day), the public — even most conservatives — would not have stood for it. Democrats believe they live and govern by a different standard, an outcome-based one rather than a rules-based one.

And unfortunately they are substantially correct due not least to the disparate treatment of the two political parties by the equally outcome-motivated “journalists” who lurk in major newsrooms across the country. Imagine for a moment the headlines had Republican U.S. Senators or Congressmen left the Capitol in an effort to stop a vote on Obamacare, a bill attacking economic and personal liberty for an industry that represents nearly one-sixth of the entire American economy. Perhaps “GOP abandons Republic,” or “Secession!” or “White Republicans hate Black President” would all have been front page, above the fold.

Now consider the media’s approach to Wisconsin Democrats fleeing the state to prevent a vote of a duly-elected legislature on a matter of state budgets and contracting rules (which is what collective bargaining rights are):

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About the Author

Ross Kaminsky is a self-employed trader and investor and is a senior fellow of the Heartland Institute. He is the host of The Ross Kaminsky Show on Denver’s NewsRadio 850 KOA at 11 AM on most Sundays. You can reach Ross by e-mail at rossputin(at)rossputin(dot)com.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (267) |

Doctor Right| 2.18.11 @ 9:45AM

Marx and Engels like to divide people up into classes - lower class, middle class, upper class, working class, bourgeoisie, proletariat, etc.

Well it's time we described a class of people that live among us in accurate therms. They're not a new class; in fact, as the demonstrations in Wisconsin have shown, they've been among us for some time.

They are the "parasite class".

These are the folks who work in various government agencies, producing nothing in most cases, yet who have unbelievably generous salaries, vacation days, retirement packages, and medical and other health-related benefits, ALL provided by ever-increasing taxes on those people who toil in the private sector to provide their own health insurance and retirement plans, most of which are far less generous than that which is provided to the parasites.

This idea that the parasite-class can continue to grow fatter off the backs of the rest of us must stop.

When I watch these greedy, selfish pigs protesting that they might have to pay for PART of their own benefits package, I am filled with rage.

Hopefully, I'm not alone. Millions of Americans have had enough of this crap from the parasite-class. It's time for some serious pesticides.

simon templar| 2.18.11 @ 10:06AM

Yes, and their arrogance has no bounds. Look at the tiny concessions that they are being asked to accept in pay and benefits. Fire them, now!

vtwin| 2.18.11 @ 1:03PM

Giving up collective bargaining rights is NOT a "tiny concessions."

Le Cracquere| 2.18.11 @ 1:17PM

I suppose not. Nor would giving up crime be exactly a tiny concession for the Mafia. Still, decent men tend to consider it the least the Mob could do, in another sense.

SonOfSam| 2.18.11 @ 1:50PM

I am a high school teacher and have been for ten years. I love working with teenagers, and I love working with computers and technology. I loved the first school I was at: great kids, great curriculum, I was allowed to be creative. At the end of my second year, I walked into my computer lab to find two members of another department literally measuring my room for drapes. It turns out that I had been re-assigned to another room in a forgotten back corner of the library, not that anyone had bothered to ask me, or even let me know what was going on. Why didn't I take this up with my buildings union rep? Because he was one of the teachers taking my room. Why didn't I file a complaint with the head of the union? Because he was the other teacher involved.

Quite honestly, after ten years, I see my union dues as just another tax, just another cost of doing business. Its tribute paid to union leaders in a far off state capital, most of whom don't actually WORK for a living: they need both hands free for social climbing, and to hand out money to politicians

The following year, the administration of that school didn't fire me, they simply eliminated my position. To save money. My so-called union "leaders"? Not a peep out of them.

I'm not saying that the teachers unions never do anything to protect me or people like me. I'm just saying that I would like the choice of whether or not I am FORCED to join one in order to do a job I love, one I was BORN to do.

vtwin, you might want to actually know what you're talking about before you open yer pie hole

vtwin| 2.18.11 @ 2:39PM

SonOfSam, I might NOT “actually know what [I'm] talking about” I could be wrong in thinking teachers are underpaid, teachers pensions are NOT too generous, there are too many students per class, … Maybe I’ve let my deep respect for your profession cloud my judgment, maybe my taxes are too high, maybe that bigscreen TV or those jet skis should be more important to me than the education of America’s children.

Maybe I'm just a product of America's education system.

Curtis Rasmussen| 2.18.11 @ 3:13PM

Socialist. You are a fool if you believe that the unions are doing responsible things with union dues and taxpayer funds. In my state, the teacher retirement system is under water due to fiscal incompetence and overreaching collective bargaining, and guess who is forced to makeup the difference?

I wish I could spend every dime I have and force you to pay for my retirement and healthcare. What a sweet deal.

Curtis Rasmussen| 2.18.11 @ 3:17PM

By the way, my wife is a part-time teacher. I get her state retirement benefits statement every once in awhile and the money she will receive at retirement is outrageous in relationship to the time spent working. No wonder states are going bankrupt with unfunded liabilities.

terrie| 2.18.11 @ 4:10PM

Below is just the AVERAGE pay for Milwaukee Public School teachers. Most WI teachers pay+bennies is over $90,000 per year. One can look this up on the internet quite easily...

"[Milwaukee, Wisconsin] MacIver News Service – For the first time in history, the average annual compensation for a teacher in the Milwaukee Public School system will exceed $100,000.

That staggering figure was revealed last night at a meeting of the MPS School Board.

The average salary for an MPS teacher is $56,500. When fringe benefits are factored in, the annual compensation will be $100,005 in 2011."

terrie| 2.18.11 @ 4:12PM

As a WI taxpayer, I pay for that, even though my salary + bennies (what bennies?) is no where near that amount.

Albert| 2.18.11 @ 5:27PM

This whole paragraph rings hollow, very hollow. There have been teachers' unions for decades and STILL teachers are underpaid and overworked, according to YOUR post. A logical conclusion would be that the unions do a very poor job providing good pay and working conditions for teachers. Maybe you should re-read your own post and, if you are capable of it, THINK about what you wrote.

Jay Dee| 2.19.11 @ 7:45PM

vtwin I think you are a perfect example of the education system.

simon templar| 2.18.11 @ 2:14PM

Yes, you are right. The citizen electorate should have not granted this concession in the first place. Since it was given and it was abused to a level that we now have a government that is going bankrupt, the citizen electorate, the People, have decide to take it back...and institute by law a new system...which is OUR RIGHT by the constitution. You do not have a right to a union in the public sector.

MikeD| 2.18.11 @ 2:33PM

VTWIN;
I see you're back trying to play with the adults. Just for truth's sake, public unions were never approved by any vote or congressional action. They were imposed by JFK the same day he was inaugurated via EXECUTIVE ORDER, which is the way democrat presidents seem to like getting their way when they know the voters would never go for it. So, it's time to 'whip out the exec. order pen', or just get a convenient judge to make some ludricous decision they could then take to their pet justices in the supreme court. Vtwin: remember something: to quote your favorite illegitimate pseudo-president: "Elections have consequences." Repeat over and over till you get it.

Wayne | 2.18.11 @ 3:36PM

Which means the next President in 2013 to ban public unions with an executive order. They are nothing more than Democratic stooges.

MikeD| 2.18.11 @ 4:56PM

WAYNE,
Thanks for your simple, brilliant comment! I can't believe I went on and on and didn't think of it myself. That's why we do this forum, to get everybody's brain in the mix. You're absolutely right! Can you imagine what the dems and the media stooges would do if the next president actually had the gonads to do it!? Good going!

BackToBasics| 2.18.11 @ 5:42PM

Unless there is a major crisis between now and then, if a Republican is elected, I doubt he or she will have the moxie to write such an executive order.

But if it ever happened, AND WAS ACTUALLY ENFORCED, the confrontation by mass protests on both sides would make today's demonstrations look like a picnic. I'd look forward to such a day.

beebop| 2.19.11 @ 7:15AM

A poll from the non-partisan Clarus Research Group found that 64 percent of American people think state workers should NOT be able to join labor unions. Ronald Reagan didn’t go far enough when he fired the Air Traffic Controllers. What did their unions say? The public wouldn’t be safe and there would be problems in the air. I don’t recall a single problem, but I could be wrong.

What the unions fail to grasp is that the millions of Americans without jobs view these protests for more, more, more when the nation as a whole (even those of us WITH jobs) are resetting the bar in keeping with the ECONOMIC REALITIES as VIOLENCE that is without cause.

The unions are cutting their own throats. I will stand by and watch them collapse with pleasure.

JmsA| 2.19.11 @ 2:22PM

nitwit,

In 1937, FDR wrote to the National Federation of Federal Employees: "The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service." He further wrote: "I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place" in the public sector. Isn't just that what the demonstrating teachers and democrat politicians are doing in Wisconsin, the former calling in sick from work and the latter shirking their duties by absconding to Illinois?

Also of note, in 1969, Milwaukee's 1950s Mayor and last socialist to lead a major American city, warned that the rise of unions in government work placed a competing power in charge of public business next to elected officials, leading to a considerable loss of control over the budget, and tax rates.

Governor Walker wants state employees to contribute 5.8 percent of their salaries toward their pensions; they now only contribute 1$ to $56 contributed by the state. He also wants them to contribute 12.6 percent to their health care premiums, from $79 to approximately $200 month; the average private-sector employee pays 27 percent, or about $330 (those in California, like me, pay considerably more). It appears to me, and no doubt millions of others, that what Governor Walker is attempting to do is not only decrease the state deficit, but also diminish the the unions' grip on local governments / municipalities through collective bargaining, which is what maintains the unions' model: grow the government bigger as the the taxpayer will bear, all the while ensuring the democrats' political coffers continue to fatten, including 96% of contributions from Wisconsin's teachers unions to democrat candidates in the last election cycle.

By the way, I was wondering if you've yet to figure out that Medicare and Social Security projections (not business statements as you claimed) are arrived at through statistical analysis? What, you thought I forgot one of your most profound inanities?

Jay Dee| 2.19.11 @ 7:43PM

They are giving up collective bargaining right on the benefits part of their salary, not the salary itself.

IMHO there should be NO unions in governments.

What they really hate is giving the union members the choice to join or refusal. They would lose 2/3 of their membership.

Joey| 2.21.11 @ 2:16PM

I really wish that union parasites and the media would stop lying about 'giving up' or 'losing' or 'destroying' collective bargaining "rights". Number one, there is no "right" to collective bargaining in the United States of America. If you don't believe me, check the Constitution.

Secondly, the ability to collectively bargain on wages is not being challenged or 'taken away' from Wisconsin State employees. So stop lying. It's getting really, really, really old.

And yes, I'm from Wisconsin. I was in Madison on Friday, and was completely disgusted with the parasitic babies throwing their temper tantrums. Thankfully, I believe that the majority of Wisconsin has awoken to the selfish greed of these unions and their zombie members. It's my hope that with this temper tantrum being played out on the national stage, the whole of America will wake up to the assault that these unions wage on our economy and on the bank accounts of taxpayers across the nation.

Albert| 2.18.11 @ 11:19AM

This corrupt system is as old as the hills. In ancient Rome, wealthy patrician patrons would support the underclass with food, housing, and entertainments, and would hire others to do make-work jobs in support of the underclass. In return, these two groups would show up for elections and vote (by centuries, or 100's) for the candidates their patron told them to vote for. Sound familiar? This is the system Democrats have built here and for the same reason. Democrats (at least most of them) know their policies are destructive, but they are also effective in buying votes with taxpayer money. Government employee unions are even more egregious in that all of the money provided to the union leadership comes from taxpayers (via dues from government employee wages). Unions then use that taxpayer supplied money to buy Democrats to hire more employees who pay more dues who enrich union ledership, who then pay more to Democrat politicians who... And the beat goes on. This is blatent corruption by the Democrats who have a good thing going and don't want to give it up. They don't want to lose the power, the prestige, the high lifestyle (for themselves of course), and the money, all supplied by taxpayers. The Democrats in Wisconsin are acting in desperation right now, in leaving the State to avoid a vote. They are on the verge of losing everything they have built and lived for their entire professional lives and desperation is the only option right now. One thing to consider, however. Sometimes, an act of desperation is successful. Wisconsin is not out of the woods yet and the Democrats weild more power than is realized. They still might pull this off and Republicans in the State House need to be vigilant.

ENOUGH ROPE| 2.18.11 @ 12:12PM

Recognize that Obama is a saboteur who wants America to become a third world country. Obama regards America and its upper and middle classes as oppressors of the world and the poor in the same way that European colonial powers exploited their colonies.

Obama is an habitual liar in order to bankrupt and destroy America. He is a smiling cobra.

vladdy| 2.19.11 @ 7:34PM

Agree.

The DNC is already planning protests like this in other cities. Now if they get the 94% of the ethnic group that voted for BO to join them....

I believe Obama would be happy to see the country destabilized. The answer is what happened in Madison today -- Tea Party support rallies for politicians doing what they were elected to do.

vtwin| 2.18.11 @ 12:53PM

Ross Kaminsky a self proclaimed "professional derivatives trader" labeling public sector employees as "leeches and parasites." Come on, what the f**k does a "professional derivatives trader" contribute?

Le Cracquere| 2.18.11 @ 1:13PM

Not sure. I'm reasonably sure, though, that his income is derived from the actual value of his work or his goods to a willing purchaser, and not from violent extortion of his betters. Give me a million of his ilk over a single one of the union swine protesting in Madison.

vtwin| 2.18.11 @ 2:09PM

Not sure? The answer is NOTHING!

And what you are calling “violent extortion” by public sector employees in Wisconsin is called exercising ones rights; to petition and free speech in the Constitution of the United States. You know the document you righties like to wave around but have apparently never bother to read.

CalMark| 2.18.11 @ 2:35PM

Excuse me, vtwin, but who is the one using vitriol, hate, and profanity to make his points?

That would be...um...YOU!

Le Cracquere| 2.18.11 @ 3:03PM

If the rights to "petition and free speech" extend to what they're doing in Wisconsin, then they extend to protection rackets and myriad other criminal enterprises. Such a vague and spurious appropriation of a document's words argues against having "read" it in any but the most elementary sense.

vtwin| 2.18.11 @ 3:48PM

"Myriad other criminal enterprises," OH MY!

Have you shared this with the appropriate law enforcement officials Wisconsin?

Le Cracquere| 2.18.11 @ 4:10PM

The powers of sentence analysis are weak with this one.

beebop| 2.19.11 @ 12:17PM

I have no issues with the peaceful petition and free speech aspects, but they aren't intereted in CONVERSATION ... they are demanding CONCESSIONS that the State of Wisconsin cannot afford and they have no intention of listening to reasoning. They are only too happy to cannabalize the educational system by throwing the youngest, best educated (there's a real stretch) and NEWEST overboard so long as they save their own sorry hides.

My sister teaches. We have a tacit agreement not Not NOT to discuss this. She tried to pull out of the union, but the impact would have been chilling. They are vipers.

vladdy| 2.19.11 @ 7:37PM

I believe by "extortion," the writer was referring to not working this week because their demands were not met....and threatening to stay out until they are met, tho' I read now that they are going back Tuesday.

Are you always so hostile? "You righties"? Rememer the New Civility.

Jack Daniels| 2.18.11 @ 1:38PM

What do YOU contribute vtwin? hmmm?

vtwin| 2.18.11 @ 4:47PM

Common sense, obviously!

Albert| 2.18.11 @ 5:30PM

That is not so obvious. The only thing "obvious" about your posts is their illogic and the arrogance and ignorance of the writer.

MikeD| 2.18.11 @ 2:37PM

More than an illegal, lying, fraudulent pseudo-president who is, as we speak, breaking the law to devote the White House resources to stick his nose into the Wisconsin situation. Barry keeps shooting himself in the foot because he simply does not believe in democracy or anything but the blatant use of power, power that is gained any way it can be. He is just the latest in a long line of democrat thugs pretending to be some kind of public servant. He's not. He's a thug who should be impeached and thrown out of office and into jail.

vtwin| 2.18.11 @ 2:46PM

"Stick his[Obama] nose into the Wisconsin situation." My apologies, I thought Wisconsin was part of the United States.

Wayne | 2.18.11 @ 3:37PM

I am glad he did. He choose a monopoly over a Democracy, thus turning even more voters off. I hope he keeps it up.

Appleby| 2.18.11 @ 3:47PM

Ever read the 10th amendment?

vtwin| 2.18.11 @ 3:53PM

Yes, and you the 14th?

terrie| 2.18.11 @ 4:20PM

Vtwin you are so wrong. WI legislature passed a law allowing public sector unions in 1959. They brought it in, they can take it back out. Go Scott Go!!

vtwin| 2.18.11 @ 4:32PM

The 14th amendment?

Yes, Equal Protection Clause: if ANY Wisconsian has the right to collective bargaining than ALL Wisconsian have the right to collective bargaining.

W| 2.18.11 @ 7:52PM

hey moron, public employees have a right to organize only if the state allows them to organize. there is no constitutional right to organize. in addition to you lefty rants now your are a street lawyer? right" vtwi/jarp/yes" and whatever moronic name you use, but the message is always the same

idalily| 2.18.11 @ 11:50PM

Exactly. And the Taxpaying Voters Union sent in a majority of representatives to the legislature to do some collective bargaining on their behalf, and look what happened. The union supported minority ran away like a pack of little girls. Keep it up Wisconsin taxpayers!

MikeD| 2.18.11 @ 6:10PM

Apparently you are the only one with any doubt about Wisconsin's status, since you are the one who brought it up. Think about what you're writing. Your stupid comments make you look like, well, you said it...

vladdy| 2.19.11 @ 7:42PM

Yes, and that United States follows a constitution that says states are sovreign except for rights specifically given to the federal government.

Fanning the flames of public worker protests and speaking out against the policy of a sovreign states's government is overreach.

So..so far we have Alaska, Florida, and others not implementing the health bill, Texas and the EPA going at each other over regulations, the government suing Arizona over immigration law, and now the president interfering with a Wisconsin's labor policy.

I'd say the president is doing a fine job of unifying and leading the nation, wouldn't you?

Radegunda| 2.18.11 @ 5:09PM

Barky got the presidential nomination by using intimidation and fraud in the caucuses, and he deliberately enabled illegal donations to his campaign.

He sues a state for actually enforcing federal laws that he dislikes, and he ignores judicial rulings and de facto injunctions that impede his statist agenda.

Using White House resources to strong-arm a duly elected state legislature and governor into maintaining the privileged treatment of the government class (at the expense of the productive part of the citizenry) is par for the course for an unrepentant Marxist demagogue.

W| 2.18.11 @ 4:58PM

do you even have a job,vtwin, or is your job the daily appointed lefty troll, bet you do not have a job.

Ross Kaminsky | 2.18.11 @ 5:09PM

vtdim,

In terms of my "day job", what I contribute is a willingness to risk my own capital (I work for myself only, not a bank or brokerage firm and I don't have any clients or customers) to take risk in the market, allowing others who want to take the opposite risk to do so by trading against me.

The closest simple analogy is like being an insurance company. If you want to protect yourself in case you wreck your car, you buy down your risk and the insurance company accepts that risk at an agreed-upon price.

I serve a similar function in terms of people who want to lessen (or increase) their risk in the stock market.

That said, I need not contribute anything more than this column to accurately claim public sector UNIONS -- I specifically said this was not about individual EMPLOYEES -- of being "leeches" and "parasites" and I wholeheartedly stand by that characterization.

The beauty of what's happening in Wisconsin is that now even Americans who don't ordinarily think about public sector finances are seeing the real face of greed in America. Teachers unions make investment bankers look like pikers.

MikeD| 2.18.11 @ 7:39PM

Ross,
You're trying to explain integral calculus to a tree frog. Kinda like trying to teach a snake to sing. You get tired and it annoys the snake. You need to remember the relative IQ of those libs who get on here trying to play with the big people but don't even know the vocabulary. How about two digits...with a decimal point.

RN in Houston| 2.18.11 @ 7:27PM

Pound sand troll.

GavInTucson| 2.18.11 @ 11:29PM

I don't know, vtwin, but I don't care since I'm not his employer and my taxes aren't paying his salary.

idalily| 2.18.11 @ 11:52PM

Bingo!

Petronius| 2.19.11 @ 9:46AM

Just be content knowing that vtwin is Not teaching your kids.

beebop| 2.19.11 @ 7:23AM

Work. People with jobs WORK ... rather than use their unending sick days to protest. Dr Eugene Sanders who just retired from the Cleveland Board of Education is being paid $100,000 in unused vacation days!!!!! If you think that that is a good use of the limited funds from the Board, then there is just no fixing stupid with you.

JmsA| 2.19.11 @ 1:34PM

Speaking of derivatives, did you know that the One's advisor, Valerie Jarett is one of the biggest derivatives players in Wall Street. Yet, you criticize Mr. Kaminsky about derivatives. Talk about hypocrisy, if not blissful ignorance in your part.

Jay Dee| 2.19.11 @ 7:49PM

My guess would be taxes and if successful, lots of taxes.

carnot| 2.19.11 @ 10:01PM

at least as much as you! probably more.

Vince| 2.18.11 @ 1:11PM

It appears these teachers believed Obama when he said that ObamaCare would lower health costs and employees should get pay raises from the reduced health coverage costs.

MikeD| 2.18.11 @ 2:14PM

Even the most reclusive Americans who never pay attention to ANYTHING are now being clearly shown the true nature of the democratic communist totalitarian party. They say they're all for dialog and discussion as long as they get exactly what they want. As our fraudulent non-citizen president famously said when he slithered into the office he is slowly trying to turn into a dictatorship; "Elections have consequences." They sure do.

Democrats, and your lying accomplists in the media; listen: YOU LOST THE ELECTION FOR A REASON. YOUR PHILOSOPHIES AND TACTICS WERE REJECTED BY AMERICA. DO YOU GET IT? NOW, GET OUT OF THE WAY AND LET THE ADULTS BEGIN TO REPAIR THE DAMAGE YOU HAVE CAUSED AND LET THEM CLEAN UP YOUR MESS!

This is not hard to understand, but it sure does bring the true nature of the dems/libs thought processes and attitudes front and center. I have typed it so many times my keyboard remembers it: "Democrats will do ANYTHING to grab, and hold power. They really think they are the elite and the rest of us are their intellectual inferiors. They have been caught lying, stealing, cheating, and, yes, even killing to get their way. " They are wrong! We are right! Get it? Now, get out of the way.

BackToBasics| 2.18.11 @ 5:47PM

True, but the 42% base that belong to the Dems in any and every election for the last 30 years could not care less. We've again got to hope that the mushy middle does "get it" and gets a spine along with the getting and consistently votes for the conservative cause.

As an aside, it is amazing the % of evangelicals who vote for Democrats in every election. Black evangelicals and even a fair % of whites are duped by Dems in every election. If we had held onto this vote by 95% in the last 40 yeas, the country would look and be a whole lot different.

MikeD| 2.18.11 @ 6:13PM

Good, well written post. Apparently the "Independents" are getting it. They voted 2 to 1 for the GOP in November, and the antics by barry and his union thugs are pushing even more into the GOP fold. Check out what's happening just this afternoon in Wisconsin and Ohio.

BackToBasics| 2.19.11 @ 12:11PM

Good point about the independents voting for Republicans in 2010. I had not forgotten it but just hope it continues in 2012 and beyond.

carnot| 2.19.11 @ 10:02PM

eh...Independents are like you and me: they don't like being robbed.

mames| 2.18.11 @ 2:58PM

These folks are afraid of competition in the open market which is why they work in govt roles in the first place. There are so many of them only because we have allowed the govt so much money to spend. Undo all govt unions including the NEA and dissolve all govt schools. Free market for everything, no more free loaders. And those infernal cowards who lefrt the stated rather than vote let the citizxens recall them assap and may the TEa Party organize to make that happen. What a bunch of babies. We conservatives stay and fight and yes vote even if we lose we do not run like girl...... no, that would be an insult to girls ... like scared little bunnies.

Hell let the idiots stop teaching and let us hire replacements - our children will not suffer if they lose a year in the transition. It would be an object lesson in freedom, something they never learn in govt schools.

mames| 2.18.11 @ 2:59PM

sorry for all the spllin errors.

Susies Q'd| 2.18.11 @ 3:03PM

Yes, and the rest of us will forever be known as "The Host Class" until our demise.

Impeach Don't Wait| 2.18.11 @ 8:28PM

"Well it's time we described a class of people that live among us in accurate therms. They're not a new class; in fact, as the demonstrations in Wisconsin have shown, they've been among us for some time.

They are the "parasite class"."

Yeah, and all the events of the last couple of years has defined still another class that has been among us for some time. It's called the "Constitutionalist/Limited Government" class!

The Constitution is written upon our hearts, we have found each other, we are taking over!

Martin Bormann| 2.19.11 @ 8:42AM

This mongrel nation seems to have unlimited funding for endless wars but not funding for worker benefits. The teaches in Wisconsin should demand that their contract be adhered to. Every citizen of this benighted land should get all they can before this once-great country descends further into mongrelized stupidity.

Jay Dee| 2.19.11 @ 7:52PM

Borman do you mean the "worker" who pays the government "worker". No one funds my worker benefits but me.

Mongrelized stupidity? Do you mean the stupidity the Union teachers have subjected on their pupils?

vladdy| 2.19.11 @ 7:53PM

"...endles wars" I don't believe so. Are you talking about the two-front war in Iraq and Afghanistan after being attacked? It's only the whiny left's fault that we didn't go in there, kick ass, and get out, like we used to.

and "...mongrel nation"? Aren't you indulging in some exclusiveness and demagoguery? Sounds like you could use some sensitivity training to better appreciate this "land of immigrants."

MikeD| 2.19.11 @ 8:52PM

All we have to do is read the screen name he's using; which tells us he's a Nazi worshipper; most likely from somewhere in the muslim area formerly known as Europe. The last time I saw the vocabulary he used was in "Mein Kampf". What's THAT tell us?

Leo W| 2.21.11 @ 2:29PM

The real truth is that wars do end, and teachers' unions do not.

darcy| 2.19.11 @ 11:50PM

"[P]igs" is too benign a term for these thieves. A more appropriate name would be "swine." Swine conjures up the connotation 'swindler.' Swindlers is what these people are. But what would you expect from a class of people who have globbed on to the thieving leftist political philosophy now permeating our culture?

Brother Nitals| 2.20.11 @ 5:30AM

Let’s call a spade a spade: this is a willful attempt to abrogate worker rights, with virtually no genuine public discussion, under the patently absurd pretense that somehow we are so “broke” as a state and disillusioned as a society that we cannot take the time to make laws like civilized people. The public knows full well that WMC and WEAC are the two most powerful interest groups in the state, and almost no one voted for Walker because they thought he was going to outlaw the latter a month after taking office. That much is clear. As far as the concessions in the contract are concerned, we must show the public that we are reasonable people. After all, we work in government. Most Wisconsinites see our political system as flawed, but not so flawed that it will somehow be improved by yanking the rug out from under one of the two political parties, and creating an inordinately unlevel playing field over night, which is precisely what Walker and his allies hope to accomplish by this.
Most public employees live comparatively modest lives. They are not the real culprits behind today's economic woes and fiscal problems. The true culprits are in other lands, far away, watching this story unfold in earnest.
Unions help provide stability and consistency in public service. They help preserve a middle class that would otherwise be plunged into the inexorable race to the bottom that now bedevils the private sector.
Under the governor’s plan, most government workers - excluding police, firefighters and state troopers would have to pay half their pension costs and at least 12 percent of their health-care costs and would lose bargaining rights for anything other than pay, and that would be limited to inflation.
The proposal would save $300 million over the next two years to help reduce a $3.6 billion budget deficit. And he wanted it done within a week, with only one, 17-hour public hearing. Like it or not, those are the facts.
Now is not the time to wander blindly in the wilderness of the utopian. Now is not the time to think: "For us the movement is everything—the final aim is nothing" is the way of the fool.
State governments face budget deficits of $175 billion through 2013. Many believe state tax revenue will not fully recover until the U.S. returns to full employment, which is not likely for quite some time, if ever.
Beyond their short-term fiscal problems, many states face pension and retiree health-care costs that some experts contend are unsustainable.
States are curtailing retirement benefits for new employees, although many say it will take much more to bring their long-term obligations in line.
Make no mistake about it. The unions are not simply an arm of the Democratic party. Without them, the party will fall.
We will not regret the judgment that the time has come to get serious.
This is about taking away rights won over decades, in a matter or days, with little or no formal public discussion.
The governor has already called a special session of the legislature and granted business tax breaks and created health-care savings accounts that lower levels of already problematic tax revenues. Public workers are being asked to pick up the tab. But there is more to the story.
The governor is proposing to sharply curtail the right to bargain collectively. An economic downturn that is not the workers’ fault, and a reversal in fiscal fortunes not their doing is being used to permanently end their ability to sit across the table from their employer and negotiate anything but pay, and then only at hold-harmless levels at best. This is what the long and very troubling recession has wrought. Almost everyone can see that capitalism has had better days.
We must never forget this: this is a state where changes of far less magnitude take considerably longer to review and understand. Consider the workings of the Legislative Council, composed of legislators and citizens, who meet literally for months to examine complex issues of public policy.
This is the Wisconsin tradition, or at least it was, for decades. Has anyone reflected on the fact that in a state that happens to have an internationally-recognized public university known, for better or ill, as having a considerable knowledge base in the realm of labor relations, virtually no testimony from an expert on either side has been brought to bear on the question? For that matter, hardly anything of considerable depth was discussed at the Joint Finance Committee public hearing on the bill.
And another thing to keep in mind is that, aside from the procedural problems we keep finding out unpleasant things, such as the issue of the prospective loss of federal transportation funding.
Not everyone is taking the bait, even on the other side. Republican State Senator Luther Olsen has called it a “radical” move that will hurt “a lot of good working people.”
This is about changing the rules of the game. This is about political power, and who will yield it for years to come. Take away the union dues check-off, and you largely take away a political party, leaving the Republicans to conspire with their Tea Party allies over how to divide the spoils. This is their plan. They will not admit it, but this is their plan.
No private employer can do what the governor proposes. For decades, Wisconsin has protected the rights of workers to collectively bargain with their employer on wages, benefits, workplace rules, and many other aspects of their employment.
Public workers are not responsible for the state’s budget woes. The problem lies in China and India and Brazil, where they have learned from America how to beat America at its own capitalist game. We have no one to blame but ourselves and a world made smaller by time.
Think it cannot happen here, but it can. If they can take away these rights, they can take away others. And the worst is yet to come. Billions in local aid will be slashed, which is why Walker is handing out the “tools” to his allies in fact and to be now.
Wisconsin state government doles out much more to its local partners than almost any other state. And that is coming to an end, soon.
The stick is the taking back the money. The carrot is breaking the unions.
You are wrong in thinking that the situation is hopeless. That is what they want you to think.
Most Wisconsinites see our political system as flawed, but not so flawed that it will somehow be improved by yanking the rug out from under one of the political parties, and creating an inordinately unlevel playing field over night, which is precisely what Walker and his allies hope to accomplish by this.
If you do nothing, don’t complain if you don’t happen to see genuine two-party competition in Wisconsin next time around, or for some time to come. Like it or not, that is what is at stake here.
If Walker succeeds in undermining WEAC, AFT-Wisconsin, and the rest, forget about things like the public interest and free and fair elections. Hope as you will, you won’t have them anymore, and if it comes to pass, don’t blame us.
We will be reasonable, and make clear to the public that we will sacrifice, by paying more toward pensions and health care, to help the state along with its budget woes, but the public must also do its part by recognizing the obvious: this is not about money. It is not about government efficiency.
It is about raw political power. More precisely, it is about how you take away effective political power from people without formally denying them such things as votes. If you need to know anything about Walker’s plan, know this: left to its own devices, shorn of the support of organized public sector labor, the Democratic Party of Wisconsin will simply be a shadow of its former self. If you don’t believe it, jump on board with Walker and help save the state some money. But don’t complain if you don’t happen to see genuine two-party competition in Wisconsin next time around, or for some time to come. Like it or not, that is what is at stake here.
If Walker succeeds in undermining WEAC, AFT-Wisconsin, and the rest, forget about things like the public interest and free and fair elections. Hope as you will, you won’t have them anymore, and if it comes to pass, don’t blame us. We told you so, right here and now. Like it or not, my dear fellow electors of Wisconsin, if this goes through as planned, WMC will be laughing all the way to the ballot box, because they will rule, like corporatist oligarchs in South America, and you will not have the Wisconsin you once knew. Trust me. I know them all too well to think that they would let the opposition survive this. Most have had privileges that you have not 0 think they’re going to pass this one up?
Still think that this is not what is at stake? Guess again. ¬o one will stop them. The Republicans will walk all over them in elections for years, and they know it. The unions are the only thing keeping things reasonably competitive now, and they will be gone my friends, and no group of investment bankers or other union-friendly CEO’s is going to step up to bat in their place.
Barack didn’t move here when he left Harvard, he moved to Illinois. It’s a different state. And we’re not ¬ew York or California either. We’re Wisconsin. We don’t have enough of those kind of people to build a newly reinvigorated Democratic party. It won’t happen. The unions are the only thing keeping things reasonably competitive now, and they will be gone my friend. And you will see changes you thought you would never see. And remember, you won’t be able to take your case to state agency administrators, because they will all be political appointees as well. It will be the same state seal, but now it will be privately owned, rather than part of a public trust. Think of it as Mississippi with snow, with Packer players as the paradigmatic example of modern unionists. The Walker gambit is about allowing one political party to establish long-term dominance in the electoral realm by undermining the other. That is why Ellis and Olson and Schultz and Harsdotf are so torn over this. They are loyal Wisconsinites all, and good people, but they are loyal party members as well. It cannot be easy for them. Luther is probably the most publicly conflicted, and to his credit, he seems willing to acknowledge that maybe people who work for unions are lacking horns and tails. But the pressure being brought to bear is incredible. Part with us on this, and you may never be invited back. It is that serious. That is why we must be strong and fight.
And to do this, one needs to use a pretext. Believe what you may from the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel (once a great newspaper) or Fox, but the truth is plain to see: if the closest political allies of one political party are thoroughly undermined by act of law, the other will gain immensely. What that means for Wisconsin is entirely unclear, and we should not presume to really be able to prophesy the full ramifications. ¬o one really can. But to the extent that Wisconsinites believe in fair play and at least some semblance of competition in the electoral arena, they should be gravely concerned about Gov. Walker’s approach here. For the simple reason that as far as state and local government is concerned, you will not have any of this anymore. WMC will decide who runs for office, and gets to make the laws, not the voters.
That, my dear fellow citizens, whether you like it or not, is what this battle is about. Know thine enemy, but remember that you must also serve him as well. The Tea Partiers detest government, in part, for a reason deeply rooted in human nature – there is a natural, and immutable, human tendency to fear that which one only sees from the outside. They think government is to blame for a declining economy, and to some extent it is. But the true culprit is not the world of American government – federal, state and local – but governments in the world around America. Scott Walker can’t ramrod a bill through the Legislature outlawing China and Brazil from developing economies that lift millions out of poverty, and into the middle class, as America had done for our parents and grandparents. So he must look elsewhere to place the blame, and it has unfortunately fallen upon us. Will we be strong enough to show our fellow Wisconsinites that this blame is largely misplaced, and do so in a fashion that allows us to maintain their respect? That is the question we face, and I know that we have it within us to rise above the pettiness and the ignorance, and show the people of Wisconsin that the election last ¬ovember was about rebuilding an economy, not rebuilding an electoral process.
We have been around government too long to believe unions can be thrown upside down, and out, in a week and the effects on Wisconsin society and culture will be minimal. That’s what Walker wants you to believe. That’s why it’s so modest. Remember the last time we tossed 48 years of accumulated case law defining the rights and responsibilities of public workers out the window overnight? What happened then? That’s Walker’s biggest PR problem.
And one other thing: did Walker miss the political science course that covered the part about Wisconsin being a model of representative government for decades (along with Iowa and ¬ew Hamshire, which would never dream of doing what he is doing now? Try as he might, he cannot rewrite history, and the notion that the Wisconsin Idea was a superior way to go about making laws and governing is not some left-wing contrivance – it is a matter of historical fact. And it is this more than anything else that we are losing in this, at times, truly bizarre battle over whether we can muster enough troopers to bring a half-century of public unionism to its knees in a week.
And yet one other thing to keep in mind. There is a difference between heading a government and operating one. We’ve been doing the latter for quite a long time, and he started his new job last month. On January 3, 2011, to be precise, or a year before January 3, 2012, a date you may want to highlight now for the sake of convenience.
Clearly, one of the main problems with the Walker proposal to end collective bargaining in Wisconsin is simply procedural. The public knows this. We know are neighbors and friends. They are simply not going to believe that it is fair or proper for a half-century of worker rights to be stolen away, like some thief in the night. We must believe, more than anything else, in the common wisdom here. They know a serious deliberative body when they see one, and they know that we they are seeing now is anything but. And it matters little which brother you ask.
Only the foolish are being fooled (just watch the thoughtful analysis spew forth from the Tea Partiers on Saturday), and Corporate Wisconsin and the Koch brothers are doing the fooling. We must never forget this: this is a state where changes of far less magnitude take considerably longer to review and understand. Consider the workings of the Legislative Council, composed of legislators and citizens, who meet literally for months to examine complex issues of public policy. This is the Wisconsin tradition, or at least it was, for decades. To say that we have abandoned this in February 2011 is an understatement. Has anyone reflected on the fact that in a state that happens to have an internationally-recognized public university known, for better or ill, as having a considerable knowledge base in the realm of labor relations, virtually no testimony from an expert on either side has been brought to bear on the question? For that matter, hardly anything of considerable depth was discussed at the Joint Finance Committee public hearing on the bill. And another thing to keep in mind is that, aside from the procedural problems we keep finding out unpleasant things, such as the issue of the prospective loss of federal transportation funding. On the surface, going ahead without further substantive public debate on the possibility of losing considerable sums of federal funding for services that ultimately, could affect job creation, does not appear to be the wisest course of public policy. If it does, then it means that we have become a state government that hauls people in from all around the state to spend hours and hours going over nanotechnology and single-use plastics, generating hundreds of documents, but if we’re talking about negating a half-century of accumulated case law in state labor relations, and affecting the lives of hundreds of thousands of middle-class people, let’s rely on what a large group of frustrated state workers and students tell us over a period of 17 hours. From the standpoint of wisely governing a society, that would not appear to be the most meritorious approach. Some might think the latter topic of greater importance than the former topics, and therefore worthy of more detailed study. In fact, it is safe to say that most Wisconsinites would agree.
With events unfolding as they are, things no longer seem as friendly as they once were, and some are coming to like the state less and less. Here’s why:
Response: The jobs that teachers have are “at risk” in the sense that, in the absence of virtually all of the collective bargaining rights that they currently have, their jobs will change dramatically. Although they would retain other civil service protections, it remains to be seen how effective they will actually be in practice. As for whether school funding will be cut, the administration is expected to be announcing unprecedented reductions in aid to local governments, including schools, in a matter of days.
Sick-Outs “Fully Merit” Job Termination
The Patriot Coalition has also charged that “engaging in “sick-outs” in order to protest at the State Capitol is lying and a breach of contract. Encouraging students to be complicit in such behavior in an effort to get one’s own way is exploitative, particularly when the reasons for that protest are not truthfully communicated. It likewise fully merits termination of employment.”
Response: Calling in sick when one is not is wrong, and should be punished. Losing one’s job over it is, to most Wisconsinites, quite extreme. With or without collective bargaining, such a termination would undoubtedly be overturned by the courts.
With events unfolding as they are, things no longer seem as friendly as they once were, and some are coming to like the state less and less. Here’s why:
“It’s That Simple”
In a Feb. 18 press release, State Representative Steve Nass (R-Whitewater) noted that he “has heard the demands of the taxpayers” and will vote for Walker’s budget repair bill. “Enactment of this bill will save approximately 10,000 to 12,000 family sustaining public sector jobs over the next two years, while achieving reasonable cost reductions for the taxpayers. A vote in favor of the Budget Repair Bill is a vote for the people. A vote against this bill is a vote in favor of the public sector union bosses. It’s that simple and there can be no compromise. This is a defining moment for the future of our state and the families that call Wisconsin home.”
Response: It is not that simple. A vote in favor of the bill indeed is a vote for some people (Gov. Walker received 53 percent of the vote), and one against does help the union bosses. Left out of the analysis set forth by Rep. Nass here, however, are the hundreds of thousands of lives of teachers and state employees that would also be dramatically affected. Regardless of how ones views the union bosses, many would feel that the others hundreds of thousands of lives might be worth mentioning. The jobs that Rep. Nass is referring to, by the way, are those that would not become layoffs because of the bill.
“The Will of the People”
On Feb. 18, State Sen. Mary Lazich (R-New Berlin) issued the following statement in reaction to Senate Democrats’ decision to abscond to Illinois and to fail to show up to work for the second consecutive day. “By failing to show up for work for a second day, Democrats have shown a true lack of regard for Wisconsin taxpayers, the institution of state government and their fellow elected officials. Running away to Illinois is not only childish, it's also an affront to the will of the people. “
Response: Admittedly, Republicans regained the governorship and took control of both houses of the Legislature in November 2010. But the notion that “the will of the people” is for a half-century of settled law in the realm of collective bargaining to be swept away in a week, with only a single, 17-hour public hearing is a little hard to swallow. The unions do not want to see this happen, of course, but to the extent that the issue is out there, it needs to be discussed at some length. As some of you may know, we in this state take pride in our educational institutions, particularly the world-renowned University of Wisconsin-Madison. Given that Gov. Walker was insisting that the state budget repair bill be passed in only a few days, there was little or no time for UW-Madison experts, or for that matter virtually any other expert, to study the proposal in detail and come up with a reasonable, rational analysis of its effects. This is why we continue to discover, on an almost daily basis, what the practical consequences of virtually eliminating collective bargaining might be, such as the prospective loss of substantial sums of federal mass transit aids, for example. This is why we have to take our time to think this through. We did not get where we are overnight, and we are not going to understand what the proposal to vastly modify collective bargaining rights for public employees fully means overnight either. “Enact laws and ask questions later” is not the will of the Wisconsin people, but in fact is precisely contrary to Wisconsin’s historical traditions of thoughtful, careful deliberation in public affairs.
No Compromise
As State Sen. Mark Miller (D-Monona) has indicated, in a Feb. 18 letter to Gov. Walker, public employees across the state “made very clear their willingness to cooperatively accept additional pension and health insurance concessions in order to do their part to help Wisconsin close a 2011 budget gap, and to assist in reducing the state's deficit going forward.”
Response: Unfortunately, Gov. Walker refuses.
“Only a Matter of Time”
In a Feb. 18 press release, State Reps. Jeff Fitzgerald, Scott Suder and Robin Vos stated that they recessed the Assembly because of security concerns. “We will reconvene on Tuesday morning and are confident that the security concerns will no longer exist. We are committed as ever to pass Governor Walker’s Budget Repair Bill and will do so next week. Millions of taxpayers spoke in November and we will not let them down. We have a fiscal crisis that can’t be ignored. We have the votes to pass the bill; it is only a matter of time.”
Response: Everyone knows that they have the votes. The point is that millions of taxpayers who spoke in November had not been given the slightest indication, in the gubernatorial or any other campaign, that collective bargaining rights were going to be largely eliminated four months later. If they had, some, and perhaps many, would have voted differently. While some may feel “let down” if the bill should somehow fail to pass, it is safe to say at this point that there are others who will feel the same way if it passes. That is why there are 80,000 people traipsing around the Capitol, many of them talking about recalling Gov. Walker in January 2012. It is not entirely clear that those who supported Walker in his campaign will feel the same level of angst if collective bargaining remains intact. Either way, some will be let down – the difference is that if it does pass, hundreds of thousands of people will find themselves in a completely different work environment, all because of a proposal that came out of the blue, with the expectation that it pass a week later, with little or no genuine or thoughtful discussion in legislative hearings. We spend months in this state reviewing issues like nanotechnology and single-use plastics in order to come up with a bill to make changes in the law regarding these topics. But undermining collective bargaining should only take a week, with a single hearing? Get real.
“False Impressions”
The Tea Party’s Wisconsin Patriot Coalition has weighed in on its reaction to teacher sick-outs and the students who have accompanied them. “Nearly every child with whom WPC members spoke at the Capitol this week wrongly believed that their teachers’ jobs were at risk, that school funding would be cut, or that favorite courses or programs would be eliminated. No such measures are currently on the table. Yet, those are the battles these children think they are helping to fight. Where did they get these false impressions if not directly from their teachers and, indirectly, from the unions that represent those teachers?
Response: The jobs that teachers have are “at risk” in the sense that, in the absence of virtually all of the collective bargaining rights that they currently have, their jobs will change dramatically. Although they would retain other civil service protections, it remains to be seen how effective they will actually be in practice. As for whether school funding will be cut, the administration is expected to be announcing unprecedented reductions in aid to local governments, including schools, in a matter of days.
Sick-Outs “Fully Merit” Job Termination
The Patriot Coalition has also charged that “engaging in “sick-outs” in order to protest at the State Capitol is lying and a breach of contract. Encouraging students to be complicit in such behavior in an effort to get one’s own way is exploitative, particularly when the reasons for that protest are not truthfully communicated. It likewise fully merits termination of employment.”
Response: Calling in sick when one is not is wrong, and should be punished. Losing one’s job over it is, to most Wisconsinites, quite extreme. With or without collective bargaining, such a termination would undoubtedly be overturned by the courts.

MikeD| 2.20.11 @ 9:07PM

Do you actually think ANYBODY read that long winded diatribe you just posted? Nothing you wrote is factual; and you seem to be ignoring the basic issue: To quote your "Illustrious Leader", ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES. The Republicans won, you lost. But, acting like a typical childish liberal, you refuse to accept the results of that election. Maybe you're teaching an unwanted lesson: Cry, scream, moan, yell, and when that doesn't work, LIE, CHEAT, and then leave town. You really do not understand this do you? You all look like rediculous fools, and worse, you have given up any moral ground you ever might have had. You are lying, selfish children who are not fit to get near our children, much less fill their impressionable heads with your evil false propaganda. And you did it to yourselves.

MikeD| 2.20.11 @ 9:17PM

I did forget one thing: You really need to get another job. you're not just incompetent and delusional, you're dangerous. But, your unending post does one good thing: It shows the rest of us why you, and every public employee (Notice I said "employee" and NOT "servant") like you is poison and must be put in your place, which is as far as possible from our children.

Dave | 2.20.11 @ 10:31AM

- Lessons From The Trailer Park -

I'm not trying to play the poor me card here, but the mid to late 1950's left me a few not-so-upscale-memories of living with my mom and dad in some really small trailers situated within those bare bones places regular folks called ... trailer parks. Sometimes our little moble casa was balanced only on two wheels and a short steel pole attached to the bottom of a hitch that kept it from tilting forward. Now when I say trailer park, I'm not refering to what today is generally called a moble home village. You know the type of moble homes I'm talking about. Some of these newer, larger units are actually pretty nice and in many cases can be considered small houses or even manufactured homes. However, for families living just below the financial Mendoza line of the '50s, the kind of trailers we occasionally lived in were of the type and size you could back a pickup truck to, hook it up, then pull out and haul it down the road to the next park, providing you could find a space with a bargain rent. We're talking -- actual traveling trailers here.

A few of those parks didn't even provide indoor plumbing access with your space. I recall one year, a visit to the bathroom or to take a shower required a short walk down a weed sprouted, asphalt path and into what would probably be considered today a row of upgraded port-a-potties. The shower "facility" was simply a few shower heads at the end of a pipe surrounded by 3 plywood type boards, a top cover and a basic wooden door with a simple slide latch to keep it closed when in use. Of course you always knew when it was in use because (a) you could hear the water running and (b) see the feet and ankles of the person using that shower as those 3 plywood boards and door covering the shower stall didn't reach the floor. There was about 10 inches of space exposed so that someone coming in could kneel down a make sure there was no one inside ready to turn on the water.

Yep, that was '50s life in a low tech-residential trailer park. Today, some might call it a campground. But back then, we and a few neighbors called it home.

Bill Clinton's former political consultant, James Carville, once implied that people like my folks and me might be ... trailer park trash. I guess it was easy to spit out vindictive lables like that when Bubba and Hillary needed a boost in approval ratings among their liberal elites. That, and due to better circumstance, probably never had to live in one of those places. But then, sometimes circumstance and limited income forced you and yours to make do and just do what you had to do in order to make the ends meet. Back in the day,it was ingrained in me that taking welfare, expecting government handouts or getting a boost from someone other than immediate family was usually a last resort and not considered an entitlement. Accepting it would have been embarrasing. Sadly, the mind-set of self sufficiency desolved itself a long, long time ago. And today, the entitlement mentality is too often the first rule of resort - not the last.

As I became a bit older, Mom managed to work us up a little higher up on the real world food chain. I'll always remember that little student desk we had in the kitchen. That's where she kept 4 or 5 monthly budget envelopes. They were usually labled rent/ food/ utilities/ phone or misc. When payday came around, she'd cash her check, bring it home and stuff those envelopes. You might ask - "Why didn't she just put it in the bank? That'd be the safer thing to do." Well, back then, and still today, in order to have a basic checking account, the local B of A and others required a specific amount be kept in the account otherwise they'd ding you with a monthly fee or drop you altogether. Generally, in Mom's case and after the bills, there wasn't enough left over to cover those ding fees for going below the limit. But somehow she always managed to keep us on course, cover the nut most months, yet still manage to find a few spare sheckles for ... a few extras. It's called many things: living within your means, don't spend more than you have or if you have to ask, you can't afford it. It's a simple rule and one I try and live by today. Unfortunately, it seems that kind of bottom line thinking has become lost on many among this current generation of working Americans, especially several thousand of those Americans working on the taxpayer's dime in Wisconsin, U.S.A.

For those who don't have time to follow this stuff, the state of Wisconsin, like the states of Ohio, New York, and California, to name a few, are busted, in the hole, ka-put. For the slang speaking among us -- El Brokeo. Either way you phrase it, these states and others across the fruited plane have finally reached and over-extended their cash flows, collections and budgets way beyond that financial Mendoza line my folks lived under in the '50s. Going back to some earlier mentioned basics, for too many decades, these states spent and handed out way more than they took in. Or as President Obama's former spiritual advisor, the Reverand Jeremiah Wright, said: "The chickens have come home to roost." He was right. And today, they be roostin' big time.

Reading from the *Milwaukee Journal/Sentinal, I came across a few facts that may drown down a little of the mob hysteria. Or at least for those looking in. In a nutshell, the new governor of Packerville made good on a campaign promise and announced (again) that the state of Wisconsin's cookie jar was empty and there were no more extra cookies to be handed out to state employees. At least not without some adjustments to the next grocery list. As we speak, they're standing in a 3.6 billion dollar defict hole. Governor Scott Walker and the new Republican majority are asking their state's government workers (teachers, bus drivers and other taxpayer funded employees) to give a little. There's a lot of bottom line minutia here, but basically the governor is proposing that state and public employees will cease being able to negoiate over anything other than ... wages. And the result of those new negotiations would be linked to the Consumer Price Index. The proposal also asks that all workers pay half the cost of their pensions and at least 12.6% of their healthcare premiums. When all is calculated, state employee costs would increase by an average of 8%. Right now, they pay nothing. The other issue is this: Unions could still represent their workers but could no longer force them to pay dues and would have to hold annual votes to stay organized. Thing is, the workers and their unions don't want to give up the semi-rigged leverage they've enjoyed for many decades. Neither does anyone residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

When I first began reading and running the numbers, I, too, thought that asking state workers to hand back 12% toward their healthcare premiums was kind of stiff. On the surface, it sounded so. Then I whipped out my handy dandy Radio Shack caculator and ran some additional numbers. Turns out I pay around 14% a year toward my own healthcare needs. I'm not up on the new math, but that's a bit more than the 12%-plus the state of Wisconsin's asking for. Me? I'm just happy to be able to provide for my-own-self in these so-called golden years. At this point, I don't have the benefit of automatically debiting the taxpayer for any manditory cost of living increases or upward adjustments in my benefits. Matter of fact, as a one of those grizzled seniors livin' large on Social Security and a moderate savings account, I haven't had one of those cost of living adjusts in the past two years and may not have one next year in spite of what the administration says about current "non-inflation" levels and the (alleged) minimal increases to the cost of living in the real world. Anyone buying gasoline every few days know what a pant-load that is. But at the end of each month, quarter and year I refer back to one of those earlier rules of thumb my ol' Mom drilled into me: "Try to make do and .. just do what you can."

One of the major road blocks to fiscal sanity in Wisconsin and other states is that in several cases, wage and benefit negoiations with the state are, as I said earlier --semi-rigged. In the cheese state, for example, state employees don't actually negoiate directly with their elected officials on each contract for those increases in benefit packages. Those negoiations are done directly with (here it comes) their unions. It's kind of like reaching into a cookie jar, then asking yourself - "Would you like to have two? Sure, go ahead. Ahh, make it three." In the meantime, those elected politicians who accepted union campaign cash each cycle by way of that funnel called membership dues, end up in the hip pocket of those very union leaders. When the final election votes are counted, and the bought and paid for fannies are seated, the selected/elected are then beholden to most anything negoiated down the road. If (said) politican hedges or even refuses a major request, the flow of campaign cash is cut off next time an election rolls around. Like I said, it's a semi-rigged process. Again, what the governor is asking: "When it comes to pension and healthcare funding, you need to negoiate with us directly to see if the state can afford your request. What it is, is basic budgetary math. It also slips into a quality quote former Prime Minister of England, Margret Thatcher once made: "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." And so too, with the states.

Could be just me, but I suspect the taxpayers already got the memo.

I have no idea how this foot stomping in Wisconsin will turn out. To be fair, most government workers are decent folks, just trying to make a buck and a good living. But if you look deeper into what they make as opposed to what the state takes in from Joe Taxpayer to fund their packages, these protests you see in Wisconsin and soon Ohio and California are being directed against, not the governors or legislatures ... but you the taxpayer who always end up paying the freight. Remember, grasshoppers: It's not so much the wages at issue as it is the billions of dollars in unfunded mandates (pensions and lifetime healthcare benefits) that are snuffing the golden goose.

For now, it might be a good time to check your pocket.

Dave - Ca.

*http://www.jsonline.com/

MikeD| 2.20.11 @ 9:09PM

Dave,
Unlike the garbage spewed by the idiot who wrote "War & Peace" before your post, I could tell your thoughts came from the heart; and you tell the quintessential American struggle and success story. Good post.

Turn Your Back| 2.20.11 @ 9:44PM

From the article: "eliminating collective bargaining for public employees is a critical step toward restoring budget sanity to any state."

The witch hunt begins.

simon templar| 2.18.11 @ 9:54AM

What amazes me is that unions even exist in the public sector. Think about it. A self governed republic made up of citizen employees who collectively bargain with whom? In fact this pits one sector of the electorate against the other and allows for a monolithic beauracracy to give itself more raises and wealth at the tax payers expense with very little control of the tax payer over this system. It's nuts. It is an outrage and a slap in the face to concept of self government in and of itself. So, where are we now? Well, now we have a public sector that makes twice the salaries of private sector employees, a public sector of employees that can not be fired, can not be asked to take a pay cut, can not be asked to pay even 2 percent of their benefits themselves , lie about being sick and fail to show up at work, and drag their students to labor disputes. The People of Wisconsin MUST regain control of their government, their schools, and their taxes.

Old Soldier| 2.18.11 @ 12:34PM

Exactly! Negotiate with the politicians they bought? Who represents me in those negotiations?

Here in NJ, our last Governor was literally in bed with a union boss. Thankfully that has changed.

darcy| 2.19.11 @ 11:52PM

You all do know, of course, that it was President John F. Kennedy who first permitted the unionization of government employees?

simon templar| 2.18.11 @ 10:03AM

Oh, let us not forget what these teachers have been teaching our kids for the last three decades nor the hundreds of news stories that we see each year about incidents where they intimidate, suspend, and expel students for praying in school, wearing the America flag on their bikes, and having opinions contrary to the latest Marxist dogma. That would be a whole other article. The more one thinks about this situation in Wisconsin the more one gets outraged. It really is Time to end this madness.

Mimi| 2.18.11 @ 10:42AM

Simon....Great post! It was not not allowed in Pre-JFK years for public employees to belong to Unions. It was thought their job to serve the public was too critical
Last night on Mark levins show he talked about getting involved in SCHOOL-BOARD meetings by Tea-Party folks....that means all of us
The law has to be changed to get the Unions out of our schools and hospitals, also Fire and Police stations. We shouldn't have the political world disruption either withPublic Servants in one PARTY exerting POWER . Where is REAGAN when you need him.....He gave them a time-limit and fired them..it took guts!! We have so many young graduates out there who could replace these Rabble-Rousers in the classrooms.
It is mostly about power... in negotiating contracts..DETAILS. The " BILL" before the legislature would level the playing field. Eventually perhaps...No health insurance will be by employers...we should all have HOSPITAL & CATASTROPHIC coverage period and all pay for regular care out of pocket..(watch it come down)

WillyP | 2.19.11 @ 12:18PM

There's an idea... fire the Democrats! Who here would keep their job if they hid in the john for a week instead of getting the work done?

vladdy| 2.19.11 @ 8:05PM

Remember this: When there are conservative teachers (and there are), the administrators give them bad evals, bad schedules, the worst classes, and constantly "review" and harrass them.

The problem with a related issue, merit pay, that people don't see is that the most left-wing, loosy-goosy, new-out-of-college, education-major, experimental types would be the ones paid the most.

I write this as a teacher for a district with no union, no collective bargaining, a $40,000 salary after 10 years, and 14.5% taken out for retirement. I think that's fair; I like the time off; and I think the Madison teachers are greedy fools.

Bill| 2.18.11 @ 10:06AM

Evidently, for Democrats democracy means mob rule.

If so, Wisconsin is a warning to all of the rest of us who believe that we live in the form of democracy known as a representative republic.

I realize the circumstances are a bit different, but perhaps Governor Walker should try firing all of the teachers who are falsely calling in sick. After all, whatever the legal nature of the governor's measures, the teachers are violating their employment contracts by defrauding their employer.

simon templar| 2.18.11 @ 10:10AM

Excellent point, Bill! They did in fact breach a labor contract. They want a union and a contract but think they can not be held to that contract...nor that they should follow it.

Appleby| 2.18.11 @ 10:35AM

Now is the time to make Ronald Regan Proud.

Fire them. Fire them all.

Give them 24 hours to get back to work, and anybody who doesn't do so, fire her. Wholesale and retail.

YeloStalyn| 2.18.11 @ 11:36AM

If you give them a time frame to get back to work, and they do... you've solved nothing. Tomorrow morning you will have these same scum polluting our children's minds as we did yesterday. They already called in sick, more than once, and thus... lied breaking the contract. It should be curtains already. Hell, it should have been curtains yesterday. Also, if defrauding the government is a crime that allows for jail time, I would have the state sherrif's office start to arrest these teachers, right then and there at the capital, for said crime. The law would be on his side.

BackToBasics| 2.19.11 @ 12:54PM

from your post - "Tomorrow morning you will have these same scum polluting our children's minds as we did yesterday. "

Agreed. Eighty percent of the students out there, never attain a higher reading and math comprehension level higher than the fourth grade. Once they've reached this point, it is "almost" better if they do not sit under the brainwashing that's provided in most of our public schools these days.

"Almost" better if they protest "whatever", since they don't seem to know what they are doing there than to sit in the brainwashing classes.

BackToBasics| 2.19.11 @ 1:17PM

I ONLY say "Almost" because at least schools occupy the young people somewhat instead of many who would be doing gang-related activites all day long if they were not housed inside of school buildings.

But for the 80% I mentioned above, this is one of the few redeeming qualities of schooling these days. 20% do want to learn and for them, even public schools are not a waste, although they could learn more in well-run private schools if they had the opportunity.

Jack Daniels| 2.18.11 @ 1:40PM

You speak for me Appleby. My sentiments exactly. Gov. Walker, FIRE THEM ALL!

MikeD| 2.18.11 @ 2:44PM

Excellently stated. FIRE EVERY ONE OF THEM! Then, arrest them for fraud against the school district for lying and add charges of kidnapping and 'corrupting the morals of a minor' for telling their students to also lie and skip school. This is looking more and more like the proverbial line in the sand. Hold firm!

And don't listen to any of the dems/libs/media 'bleating' about them being our 'friends, neighbors, and public servants'. They've proven that they're not. They're self righteous democrat drones doing the bidding on ther political and union bosses to tear down our country. Because, if that's not what they are, then they're really stupid, which is worse. Just think what they're doing to our next generation. How about messing them up even worse than they did the last two they ruined. And we wonder why our country is sinking into the morass...

skip| 2.18.11 @ 5:41PM

Proving Reagan was an actual human, and not some higher being, maybe the most significant shortcoming of his presidency is that he failed to live up to his promise to eliminate the department of education, and we are paying for it right now big time.

We can take a cue from one of the multitude of successes of Reagan's presidency and insist on the termination of employment of these miserably incompetent and blatantly negligent teachers. Reagan fired all the striking air traffic controllers, liberals screamed hysterically air travel would be a catastrophe, and it went off without a hitch.

I seem to remember seeing somewhere that Wisconsin teachers unions had a recent campaign where their slogan was, if you can believe the hypocrisy, 'children first' or 'students first'.

Keep fighting the good fight with your usual excellence MikeD.

MikeD| 2.18.11 @ 6:18PM

SKIP,
The problem really is exactly what you said, just a bit more broadly applied: Every president, including the Republicans (Mostly the GOP!) should have terminated the Depts. of Edukashun (Yes kiddies, it WAS satire!)) and Energy, among others. They have been abject failures.

Thanks for the compliment. It is appreciated, especially coming from somebody like you whose opinions I respect.

skip| 2.19.11 @ 3:46PM

Your kind words are considerably more reassuring than the last feedback received that as a sad specimen of humanity with posts of no worth serving no one was nothing other than a drain on society due to idiocy.

I'm so confused.

Jay Dee| 2.19.11 @ 7:55PM

The teachers aren't State employees, they are hired locally.

vladdy| 2.19.11 @ 8:10PM

And replace them with conservative teachers from all over the country who quit or were fired because they couldn't take the left-wing nonsense anymore. You'd have a great staff of hard-working, experienced professionals who would get along fine with the expectations of a conservative state government.

(I'm there!)

Michael L. Hauschild| 2.20.11 @ 7:38PM

Not all, just the democrats! (Oh, and also leave one Scoop Jackson libertarian.)

Anthony| 2.18.11 @ 11:48AM

You guys have a point, but I don't think the governor can fire municipal employees. These teachers are not state employees, perhaps some are, but mostly, they are employees of the various towns and cities.
The collective bargaining agreements need to be inforced by those towns and cities of the awol teachers.
It would be prudent, nonetheless, for the governor to see if he does have any recourse under existing state statutes.

simon templar| 2.18.11 @ 2:18PM

They are not state employees..that is odd... they seem to be when issues about school prayers, evolution, and every other issue pops up.

vladdy| 2.19.11 @ 8:11PM

Dept. of Ed. Abolish it. (and privatize, of course). They are responsible for a lot of damage these past 20-or-so years.

terrie| 2.18.11 @ 4:24PM

I believe teachers are employees of the district in which they work. (multiple schools in a single district) School districts get most of their funding from State Taxes. The rest they get from Property taxes. Our property taxes are outrageous. An 1,800 sq ft home in the country pays about $5,000 per year in property tax. In the cities, its even worse.

Dustoff| 2.18.11 @ 11:58AM

In WA state our teachers CAN-NOT go on strike, yet evey 3 years they do it. What do our dem's (who run the state) do.
Nothing.
They know where their bread is buttered and it's not from the taxpayers. Unions only.

jon | 2.18.11 @ 10:13AM

Conservatives are doing the right thing, but they need to continue to proudly stand by it and call it what it is - union-busting. That's fine, people want that, don't pretend it's anything else.

They should also make it clear that public unions are far more corrupt and have far more influence over elected officials than "big business" could ever have. There's a reason even FDR knew public unions were a conflict of interest.

And the new liberal line seems to be "the demonizing of teachers is sickening." Try replacing the word "demonize" with "criticize." Yes, they're job is extremely important, and all of my children's teachers have been excellent. But they're still people, and not beyond criticism - especially for something like skipping out on a job I'm paying them to do.

Jon
www.gutfeelingbook.com - learn who conservatives really are

Le Cracquere| 2.18.11 @ 1:18PM

I'll buy that: union-busting forever!

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

CforUS| 2.18.11 @ 10:15AM

I have to wonder how much support there is for this legislation among the average taxpaying adult in Wisconsin. Sure there may be a few that are "shocked" by the bill's "severity", but I'm thinking that most are sitting out the protests agreeing that it's necessary for the state's fiscal health. I have a close friend that is a union employee in California. He has said to me on several occasions that he embarrassed when he talks to unemployed friends and family, knowing that some of the benefits he gets that are way overboard in their scope. He also admits that the union he belongs to is a leech to the company he works for. I found that profound for someone that reaps the benefits for membership.

It's time for the union power base to be cut down a bit. I go as far as suggesting that publically traded companies and unions that don't FULLY fund and are up to date on their retirement accounts should be barred from contributing to any political campaign and/or political action committees. Now that would cause an uproar. Suggesting that a company or union first meet their employee/member obligations. Perish the thought!

CalMark| 2.18.11 @ 2:41PM

I overheard two California state employees, talking one day. Both are Union members: one is a McCain "Republican" (whatever that is) management type, the other is a '60s hippie throwback type.

Both agreed that Ron Brown would be the best candidate "from a state employee's perspective."

Unlike the rest of us, union people vote for who will give them handouts--Moonbeam, for instance--and (scary, this) see nothing wrong with admitting it.

CalMark| 2.18.11 @ 2:42PM

*Ron Brown--meant Jerry Brown. Too many Browns out there in political-land.

Petronius| 2.19.11 @ 9:57AM

Ron Brown was Clinton's Commerce Secretary who died when the Herc he was aboard went down in the Adriatic. But I agree with the Californicated "workers". In his present decayed state, Ron Brown can do no more damage.

vtwin| 2.18.11 @ 4:12PM

People voting in their own self interest, OUTRAGEOUS!

Radegunda| 2.18.11 @ 5:28PM

And they keep calling themselves "public servants." PREPOSTEROUS!
And the teachers' unions say it's "for the children." LIARS!

Radegunda| 2.18.11 @ 5:30PM

I thought lefties didn't like self-interest. Aren't you supposed to be sacrificing for the common good? Or at least refrain from crushing the people from whom you're forcibly extracting your excessively cushy salaries and benefits?

MikeD| 2.18.11 @ 7:44PM

Which is exactly what the voters of Wisconsin did when they voted the dems out! They got tired of supporting the public employees in the manner they had become accustomed. By the way, the key word here is: "employees", as in, they work for the taxpayers and get paid and keep their jobs...as long as they do those jobs; which they are not. They should be fired "for cause". (Libs, please look it up so you have some idea what it means.)

skip| 2.19.11 @ 6:35PM

vtwin wtwin

Getting a rebuke from the article's author has got to sting a little.

But be of good cheer.

NortonSmitty in his first post on his first visit got one.

You have a way to go to be anointed Ugliest Troll.

Be and do good.

WillyP | 2.19.11 @ 2:04PM

The population of WI is well over 5 million so the number of people protesting is a very small minority, percentage wise.

Richard Baker| 2.18.11 @ 10:23AM

Nuts to these public service unions. They produce and create nothing but a mass transfer of taxpayer dollars. The schools are a disgrace, the cost of keeping these "workers" is unsustainable, and the union's believe in rule by mob. The public sector unions are breaking the budgets in many states and something has to be done. In Wisconsin, the Governor is more concerned with the future health of his State and not the overpriced unions. The teachers are showing their childishness while they whine and their students get the back of their hands. Educators? Of What?

martin j smith| 2.18.11 @ 10:29AM

There are those in LaLa land or are extraordinarily selfish, or just don't care or are un-american or are anti-American. these are the fellow travelers of Government Unions at this time. As for the Government Union Leaders, they are Socialist,Marxists, un-elected to political office by the voters ( not talking about Union politics ) and are leading their members and the nation off the cliff. They are Anti_americans and are American Haters. They do not give a damn !!!!!!!!!!
So, are we supporting breaking the Socialist Worker's Party ( AKA Communist Party prop up ? ) YOU BETCHYA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why--I do not want to see this country go down AND I see who these Obama AGENTS ARE. They hated Bush--I don't hate, I support giving them their political cummupence. And if there is continued violence in the streets I would support sending in the Marines to squash them down. They are the enemies of the people !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ellios Wyatt| 2.18.11 @ 10:32AM

Collective bargaining is a benefit, not a right.

And collective bargaining by public sector employees is about as unethical as it gets. It pits private interests againsts the interests of the public, ie. taxpayers. I am hoping this leads to a revolution where we see many more states restore fiscal sanity and do away with public sector collective bargaining benefits.

Karen| 2.18.11 @ 10:32AM

Hmmm, why is it okay for the Tea Party to rally/threaten their elected officials but it's it not okay for public workers/employees to rally and voice their opinions. I think all of you should go read the Constitution.

BTW, public employees are not parasites. You are referring to our firemen, policement, teachers, elected officials, EMS to name just a few.

Appleby| 2.18.11 @ 10:37AM

The Tea Party did NOT "threaten their elected officials" -- Daddy said there was a difference between a threat and a promise, and what the Tea Party did was PROMISE to fire them if they did not heed their bosses' wishes.

Albert| 2.18.11 @ 11:27AM

Ms. Karen, most (or all) of us HAVE read the Constitution. Please tell me where it states unions for government employees are a basic right. Where do you get off saying the Tea Partiers "threaten" elected officials? I suggest you get a dictionary and look up the word "threaten." And BTW, none of the people you mention need be unionized and functioned quite well before the age of government employee unions. Also, since MOST government employees are NOT firemen or police officers, unions get taxpayer money from a far greater number of people than you realize, most of whom do little or at least little that is necessary. Government jobs are like welfare payments. Democrats buy votes with government jobs the same as they buy votes with direct payments from taxpayer money. I think you should grow up a little.

simon templar| 2.18.11 @ 11:29AM

Karen,
The Tea party are citizen tax payers addressing their greviences with an out of control government...very constitutional. The public sector employees are the employees of the citizen tax payers. These public sector employees broke their contract with the citizen tax payers and refuse to accept any cuts in pay nor responsibility of paying any portion of their benefits. These public service jobs are not rights or entitlements. You work for the general electorate and if the general electorate decides to cut cost..then you deal with it. One becomes a parasite when you begin to have the arrogance that you deserve the job you have and no one and I mean no one has the right to ask you anything or demand anything of you.
I will leave you with a thought to chew on....
Public Service doesnt mean you’re to be serviced by the public for life.

Ned| 2.18.11 @ 12:13PM

To continue on Simon's post - the public unions are certainly within their rights (as of today) to protest being asked to pay for more of their benefits. However, the travesty of seeing my unemployment check taxed to pay the bloated salary and "Cadillac" benefits of people who supposedly WORK FOR ME is more than I can stand.

Who doesn't know someone in this economy who has been asked to forego any raise, contribute more to the cost of their benefits, or has just been plain old laid-off? Damn few in the public sector, and that's just not right.

Bydand76| 2.18.11 @ 11:42AM

The parasites are the unions which collectively hold everyone over a barrel i.e performing an ILLEGAL work stoppage at the expense of the taxpayer!

Maybe you should go read the Constitution and show me where it says that if you disagree with the opposition and you are an elected official then its ok to just disappear to a different state so you don't have to face reality. Thats cowardice in my book and I did not read that in the Constitution Karen!

No one ever said that police officers, nurses, or teachers are parasites so quit putting words into other peoples mouths and while we are on the topic how do you explain the fact that if these cuts do not go through then the Govenor will be forced to cut over 10,00 jobs. So who is the parasite eh Karen? The people who voted in a Republican majority in the state government? Are those the parasites you are talking about?

Maybe you should do your homework and learn about what your talking about before you open your mouth.

I live in Wisconsin and I am directly affected by the teachers deciding to call in sick. Since before and after child care was also affected by the illegal work stoppage that means I have to pay someone to watch my kids since I cannot afford to miss work! Oh yeah and my taxes went up this year as well! Go figure!

Oh, but the teachers and the cops and all of the other public employees can't take a pay cut or a reduction in their CBA contract. Heaven Forbid that happens!

Seriously, get a clue Karen!

Pro Libertate!

Nancy in NC| 2.18.11 @ 11:49AM

OK...they have the right to voice their opinion...on their own time with their own money...just like the people in the Tea Party. And how dare they take children and put them in harm's way while sucking off the public teat. No way public service employees should be allowed to have a union. My husband served in the military for 26 years. He was told that he would have free health care for life. They changed their mind, and it's suck it up and get on with it. We are grateful that we have health care, and feel our contribution is just and fair. Somehow I don't see serving in the military, being in harm's way and living under someone else's control the same as being a school teacher. And their starting pay is much higher than a starting military person. I don't begrudge teacher's making a decent salary, but don't expect to do it solely on the back of the taxpayers. Times are tough...we must all do what is necessary to have our Nation survive. Quit being so damn self centered.

YeloStalyn| 2.18.11 @ 1:34PM

Well.. Nancy... maybe your husband should have unionized the military. They are, after all, government employees. In the name of all that is good for the worker, they should have gone on strike and forced the tax payer to pay 100% of that healthcare. Unions, after all, are the protector of the nation... not the military. I know, 'cause Mein Fuhrer has all but said so!

YeloStalyn| 2.18.11 @ 1:42PM

Just to be safe... that was sarcasm. I thank you for supporting your husband, and your husband for protecting me and my family. God bless!

Nancy in NC| 2.18.11 @ 4:14PM

I got it...lol. I showed your remark to my husband, and he was laughing so hard he hurt himself. His reply :"now you tell me!"

Dustoff| 2.18.11 @ 12:01PM

LOL, sorry Karen.

I'm a fire/medic and you lie.

Just like the police were paid to do a job. We do it, yet we have some jerks who fail to do their job and we can't kick them out. ( thank you unions)

skip| 2.18.11 @ 12:39PM

Karen,

You display a shocking, alarming, and sickening lack of understanding in the purpose, function, and intent of the Constitution of the United States.

You wouldn't by any chance be a member of a teacher's union and a teacher of future American taxpaying voters would you?

Stephanie| 2.18.11 @ 1:44PM

If the shoe fits...........they are INDEED parasites. Let them pay into their own health insurance and retirement. Nobody pays into mine as a self employeed small business owner. My husband and I pay OUR OWN. Who the hell thinks that the citizenry of a given state should pay out of their pockets for a bunch of rotten teachers? The fact that they have left the schools unmanned, makes them rotten.
And yeah, Governor Walker needs to pull a Reagan. There are pleanty of folks who would be greatful for these jobs.

Radegunda| 2.18.11 @ 5:37PM

There were more people arrested at one "public servant" protest than at all the Tea Party rallies combined.

Considering how much teachers are paid for a scant 9 months of work, and how extravagant their pensions and benefits are, and how police and firefighters can retire very early on very generous pensions -- forcibly extracted from taxpayers who cannot provide themselves with the same level of compensation -- and considering that their unions use required member dues to elect politicians who will always protect government employees first, at the expense of those who are compelled to support them .... I would have to say that yes, there is an element of parasitism involved.

Government employees tend to be unaware of how much more challenging life is for most in the private sector. Or else they just don't care.

beebop| 2.19.11 @ 11:48AM

BTW, public employees are not parasites. You are referring to our firemen, policement, teachers, elected officials, EMS to name just a few

Sorry but can you explain the function of 'POLICEMENT?'

vladdy| 2.19.11 @ 8:19PM

Tea Partiers "threatening?"

I do recall Jerry Fuller's threatening to kill Tea Partiers at the Tucson town meeting, but not the opposite.

Ed| 2.18.11 @ 10:34AM

Ohio and Indiana are probably next in line to have these demonstrations. The fact that Obama's minions are at the head of these protests is not going to be ignored by the voters. All three of these states are "purple", half red and half blue, but they are rapidly tilting to the right.

Now that is a change we can hope for!

Bob Grant| 2.18.11 @ 11:12AM

As I've stated before, the republican candidate in '12 SHOULD be from the group of governors who emerges victoriously from the battle against the public unions, federal government, and their various supporters.

Forget about a senator, congressman, EX-GOVERNOR, mayor, or celebrity businessman.

Kasich, Walker, Barbour, Daniels, etc,..

If republicans were smart (don't hold your breath), they'd rally behind one of these governors.

Albert| 2.18.11 @ 11:32AM

It is too bad California could not be next in line, as the Golden State will be first in line to go bankrupt from government employee unions. And instead of electing a Governor who could bring economic sanity to Sacramento, we have elected Good ol' Jerry Brown, the Moonbeamer himself, the man who GAVE us government employee unions in the first place, who is back for another round of screwing taxpayers and benefitting Democrat politicians.

jolizoom| 2.18.11 @ 7:00PM

Ohio already is.

beebop| 2.19.11 @ 11:46AM

The protests were in Columbus yesterday with the vanquished Strickland rousing the rabble. How quickly they forget that he used PRISONERS to clean State office buildings ....

Anthony| 2.18.11 @ 10:36AM

Who knew that the 2nd American Revolution was starting up a bit earlier than anticipated?
Wisconsin's problems, and those of dozens of other states, are the result of decades of a leftist paradigm that has finally busted the bank.
And while the morons in the LSM lambast Gov. Walker because he's a Republican, the facts are Democrat governors are about to do the same thing, the little piggy bank is broken open in pieces, and the money is all gone.
Public sector unions, specifically the teacher's unions, of which I was a member many decades ago, are waging their final Battle of the Bulge. Even General Obozo from his safe perch in Washington can't save the day for his union thugs.
So while Democrat lawmakers in Wisconsin run away from their duty, and the union thugs shut down the schools, the rest of America is watching and we're ready to take up the fight.
The Tea Party Movement has claimed yet another victory over leftism.

ann| 2.18.11 @ 10:49AM

I sincerely hope that Governor Walker does not cave to these terrorists. If the people of this country do not see Obama's agenda now, then we are truly lost as a nation. I wish Gov. Walker would call these MIA politicians exactly what they are COWARDS who are more concerned about their political agenda than their country.

ncatty| 2.18.11 @ 11:05AM

A modest proposal: If you work for local government you cannot vote in local elections. If you work for State government you cannot vote in State elections. If you work for the Federal government you cannot vote in Federal elections. Anything else is a conflict of interest.

cicero| 2.18.11 @ 11:11AM

Some years ago, I served on a local school board in Michigan where teacher strikes were illigal, pursuant to a law that was never enforced by the courts. When our paragons of educational excellence decided to call a srike when they couldn't get their way, I advised their union reps that if they were not in classl on the first day of shcool, they were all fired. Then, I placed an add in the largest newspaper in the state seeking to hire teachers. The union folded, and agreed to a three year contract that was below the level of inflation. Of course, I could not get re-elected, as the union ran three candidates against me (flooding the field), knowing that the citizens don't pay attention.
Maybe the citizens are beginning to pay attention now that the public schools are incompetent, the districts are bankrupt, and the government is coming after them to fund the mess with ever more percentages of their pay checks.

Nancy in NC| 2.18.11 @ 11:53AM

Maybe you should run again. Chances are you might have more success. Michigan pay for teachers is high, however they are getting very little bang for the buck. I know that much of the results have little to do with the teachers, but a society that has little value for education. Perhaps if they had to pay money to go to school their parents would demand they learn something. But since it's free child sitting for many, I don't see that happening.

Nancy in NC| 2.18.11 @ 11:54AM

Maybe you should run again. Chances are you might have more success. Michigan pay for teachers is high, however they are getting very little bang for the buck. I know that much of the results have little to do with the teachers, but a society that has little value for education. Perhaps if they had to pay money to go to school their parents would demand they learn something. But since it's free child sitting for many, I don't see that happening.

Clint| 2.18.11 @ 11:21AM

The Teachers' Union is doing to American Education what The Autoworkers Union & The Steelworkers Union have done to The American Auto Industry & The American Steel Industry.

skip| 2.18.11 @ 11:45AM

Even worse.

The result of auto and steel worker unions was poor quality high cost products no one is forced to purchase and stockholder financial losses no stockholder is forced to continue to absorb.

The result of teacher unions is future American citizens too unintelligent and too dishonest to properly provide their own necessities, defend themselves, or do much of anything in their own long term self interests, among a disconcerting plethora of other troubling issues.

Dean| 2.18.11 @ 11:34AM

The protesting teachers in Wisconsin should be punished for abusing their so-called "sick" days. They should be forced to make up the missed days, just like snow days. Except, in this case, there will be a sort of multiplier effect. Take one illegal sick day, and you have to make up with, say, four or five extra days at the end of the school year. Make the students attend those extra days too. Let all of them sit in the schools and watch their precious summer vacations dwindle away, and contemplate the foolishness of their actions.

simon templar| 2.18.11 @ 11:40AM

Consider this. If these public sector unions were not so full of greed, power, and corruption and were politically savy and smart..they would have proposed and offered a one time 10 percent cut across the board in exchange for keeping collective bargaining rights. They would appear to be doing their share to reduce out of control spending, gained the electorate sympathy and thanks..and would be back to work the next day. Did it happen? No. You know the real of the story.

artesian jacket| 2.18.11 @ 11:47AM

I am a public school teacher in Georgia. Those slackers in Wisconsin are a disgrace. Fire them for breach of contract and be done with it. With apologies to Calvin Coolidge: There is no right to strike against the public "interest" by anyone, anytime, anywhere.

missbosslady| 2.18.11 @ 11:56AM

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that this may actually be a win/win for Republicans because the alternative to this bill is the laying-off of over 5000 govt. workers. What's the downside either way?

I have had the misfortune of making my living in a business that requires me to interact with local government every single day. If the average citizen knew what I know, saw what I see, and topped that with the math, they would be on the steps with their pitchforks.

I am one that believes that the better solution is the lay offs. Lay offs and attrition will bring the budget relief needed as well as have some pleasant consequences for the citizens. Not only are the union contracts too grand in scope and scale, but their membership is too large, as well.

The ranks of government workers needs to be thinned, from the local level on up.

Many of these workers are enforcers of what amounts to far too many rules and regulations. Without the enforcers government would have to limit their incursions into our private lives, as at the very least, they would not have the personnel to execute them.

Like it or not, all of the rules and regs coupled with the army of enforcers creates and adversarial relationship between the public and private sectors.

I believe the percenatge of Americans workers that are unionized is approx 17%, and the unions that claim the majoirty of that pie are the public employee unions. So, roughly 10% (+/-) of the working population is in a position to take down the reamining 90%. That is simply astounding.

Heironymous| 2.18.11 @ 12:22PM

I actually work in the belly of the beast... I'm paid half what I made in the private sector ten years ago, but on the other hand I don't *do* ANYTHING about 90% of the time... part of that is the nature of my job, but part of it is that very little is required of me...

missbosslady| 2.18.11 @ 1:13PM

Heironymous,

Thanks for that breath of fresh air; honesty sure has a sweet smell.

You've hit the nail on the head.

I see this every single day of my life and it drives me absolutely wild! I have waged a local campaign for the last ten years against this disease and historically have received little or no support from my private sector clients, not because they are content with the conditions, but because they fear retribution by government employees.

It is sickening!

What have we come to when the private sector trembles in fear of government employees?

I had to laugh when Obama stated yesterday that "these folks are our nighbors", well Pres. I'd say come to work with me everyday and be treated with utter contempt by pampered and protected autocrats.

Neighborly is not the term I would use to describe the vibe.

idalily| 2.19.11 @ 12:16AM

You ask, "What have we come to when the private sector trembles in fear of government employees?"

The answer is simple and chilling: we have come to tyranny.

Bob| 2.18.11 @ 12:46PM

Citizens of New Jersey take cue from the wonderful protesters in Wisconsin oppose Governor Pig and rally with the NJEA.

JKS| 2.18.11 @ 1:06PM

And the moocher class has been heard from...

Stephanie| 2.18.11 @ 1:47PM

didn't take long, did it JKS? The leeches of our society.

beebop| 2.19.11 @ 11:43AM

This is their last stand. If they get cut here the gravy train comes to a halt. Hard to motivate yourself to work, but no problems putting your hands in the pockets of the tax payer. Thank GOD I saw the light in the crooked Dim primary and crosse the street to where the sane people dwell.

missbosslady| 2.18.11 @ 1:17PM

Governor Pig?

Yeah, you're to be taken seriously!

Really, do you think that you will win hearts and minds with your utter stupidity?

You're a sad dude facing an inevitable fate.

I do not and will not feel sorry for you when your day of reckoning is upon you.

I'll be all about the schadenfreude, baby!

Peace out, loser!

Bydand76| 2.18.11 @ 2:08PM

Troll Alert

Lois C| 2.18.11 @ 12:50PM

The legislators who fled the state should be fired along with the teachers who called in sick or took students out of class and forced them to demonstrate to keep the incredibly poor education they are currently getting from said teachers in place. Where are the parents of these kids?

No public employee should be represented by a union and all union membership should be voluntary. Nobody should be forced to join a union as a condition of employment, that is extortion. Unions must be barred from making contributions to anything other than benefits for employees like pension and health care and they must be required to fully fund their pension plans.

I for one have not had a raise in over 2 years due to the economy, these people have a lot of nerve demanding anything!

Oldefarte| 2.18.11 @ 1:10PM

Great article, Ross, THANK YOU! As you predict, I hope that this Wisconsin event illustrates to still ignorant [as exemplified by 11/2/08] voters the repugnant political behavior of DEMOCRATS and their labor unionized friends. This country does now sadly resemble the Middle East, and if we don't WAKE UP and take back out country, we will end up resembling Cuba!!!!!!!

NortonSmitty| 2.18.11 @ 1:12PM

This is my first visit to this site. Your readers are just about the most ignorant bunch of right-wing kool-aid drinkers I have seen on any website, and that is saying something. When a DERIVATIVES TRADER for crissake calls people who actually work for a living parasites and have thousands of poltroons line up to echo his remarks, you have definitively demonstrated the total bankruptcy of the legendary conservative thought process. Congratulations!

Le Cracquere| 2.18.11 @ 1:24PM

I hold no special brief for derivatives traders, but would observe that if anyone can make them look like proud, flinty yeomen by comparison, it's the Wisconsin protesters. And I believe you'll find his words were aimed at union members, not at "people who actually work for a living"--the two terms are mutually exclusive.

Thanks for visiting, by the way.

Robbins Mitchell| 2.18.11 @ 1:36PM

The difference is a derivatives trader isn't leeching off the taxpayers..he is actually contributing real new revenue to the Treasury...not a net drain on tax revenues..and a derivatives trader has no contractual benefits....if he doesn't produce,out he goes..so thanks for showing all of us that you endorse and approve of teachers taking fake sick days, pulling and illegal wildcat strike which closes schools,and encouraging mass truancy by dragging their students to a work stoppage rally...your criminal mentality speaks volumes

Anthony| 2.18.11 @ 4:51PM

Yes, and if a derivative trader calls in sick, but then is found protesting on the street, that derivative trader no longer has a job the next day. In CT, one of the states on the edge of bankruptcy, from 1990 until today, the state budget has increased 250%, yes, that's 250%.
A state of 3.3M people has an annual budget of $19.5 Billion.The average hourly cost in the private sector in CT with wages and benefits is $29, the average state employee's cost is $40.
And that, they say, is that.

George True| 2.18.11 @ 2:15PM

Norton: If this is your first visit here, then you would have no real way of knowing that there are many commenters here whose individual and collective wisdom and accomplishments are orders of magnitude greater than the norm. If you decide to stick around you might actually learn something, if you are open to it. But in the words of one of our wisest (Ken the Texican) one think we can't do here is we can't fix stupid.

simon templar| 2.18.11 @ 2:39PM

The total bankruptcy of conservative thinking? It's odd you should you that phrase. What we conservatives are ranting about is the REAL TOTAL bankruptcy that we are facing because of 70 years of big government liberalism, public sector unionization, and bloated, inefficient progressive entitlement programs. Your post is not new to us. We get a lot of emotional, name calling, illogical, arrogant post like yours from the various left wing trolls that like to stir things up. We usually respond with logical, reasoned arguments that contain facts, statistics, historical references, links to other sites, etc. This is usually a waste of time, nevertheless, and usually get a further diatribe of marxist socialist dogma, emotional appeals, and further name calling.

simon templar| 2.18.11 @ 2:58PM

NortonSmitty: by the way what is exactly your point about the author being a Derivatives Trader? What do you do for a living? Is there some common knowledge, politically correct, liberal thing that need not be said as it just is understood by any intelligent (that is socialist liberal type) person? I am confident that you do not have a clue as to what a derivative investment instrument is nor any idea as to what drove the economic collaspe of 2008. What you know is what you were told to know and what you will cling to no matter what evidence is presented to the contrary.

Peter McGrath| 2.18.11 @ 3:37PM

A derivative is a financial instrument whose value is based on the expected future price of the asset upon which it is based. They've been around for hundreds of years. Anyone selling such (sometimes) complex instruments would need to have a degree of sophistication and overall intelligence which would lend itself to discussion of policy and politics.

Are you suggesting, Smitty, that people of intelligence should refrain from politicial discussion? Or, alternately, are you suggesting that someone who trades derivatives is automatically disqualified from having a valid viewpoint?

Are you accusing all persons who sell derivatives as unreliable, and not to be trusted?

You add nothing to the overall discussion but name-calling and crass insinuation. Next time you want to avoid embarassment, please carefully arrange your thoughts before attempting to share them with others.

Try using, not wasting, your brain, before it's too late.

DRed| 2.18.11 @ 4:00PM

I think he's saying that it takes some chutzpah for a derivatives trader to call workers in another industry parasites after the massive taxpayer bailout of the investment banking industry.

beebop| 2.19.11 @ 11:40AM

Duh. It must be wonderful to make sweeping assumptions when you know zip.

Nancy in NC| 2.18.11 @ 4:26PM

It can be your first and last visit to this site.

Those who know...know...most who don't know, never will. I believe you fit in the second category.

Oldefarte| 2.18.11 @ 4:35PM

Then GTH and leave!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oldefarte| 2.18.11 @ 4:41PM

People who WORK FOR A LIVING? Is that what you call ignorant, under-educated, labor-union ars-kissing fools whose accompolishments are 18 years old morons who lack the simply ability to read and/or write, who are unemployable due to their stupidity and inability to be work-trained?????????????????????????????

Ross Kaminsky | 2.18.11 @ 5:17PM

Just to reiterate to trolls like you who want to focus on the messenger instead of the message, I take risk every day with ONLY my own money. I don't work for a bank or investment bank, just for myself, and I don't have customers or clients. I work hard, I take risk, and I have nothing to apologize for. I have studies politics and economics for more than 25 years, both in college and during my professional life.

MikeD| 2.19.11 @ 10:00PM

Why do you feel that you have to defend yourself against these morons? Look at my earlier post: you're trying to teach a snake to do quadratic equations. Don't waste your time!

Mike Giles| 2.18.11 @ 1:19PM

The problem with layoffs, is thatthey will come from the newest most motivated public workers, and not from among the time serving union hacks.

YeloStalyn| 2.18.11 @ 1:41PM

unfortunately.... +1

thanks again, unions

vladdy| 2.19.11 @ 8:34PM

Except with teachers, the newest are usually the young, leftists who set up "poverty workshops" and "gay training" for the rest of us old hands.
They like to put their desks in "pods" where the kids face each other and do all their work "cooperatively." They buy into ed school BS

Older teachers are almost always better (and stricter.) Yes, it's experience, but beyond that, they've seen the new trends come and go every year and have heard all the excuses and know what works.

So...there is NO excuse for the tprotesters in Madison who have been on the job awhile. They're just spoiled. The younger ones actually believe all the "worker's party" stuff they got fed in college.

Mike Giles| 2.18.11 @ 1:20PM

Sigh.
should be: "that they"...

Bo Darville| 2.18.11 @ 2:44PM

The author states:

"Democrats care only for outcome, not for rules, process, or even democracy itself if the people inconveniently elect Republicans"

Isn't this the fundamental difference between Republicans and Democrats? Objectivity v subjectivity and process v outcome?

simon templar| 2.18.11 @ 3:22PM

Yeah, that's a start..keep going...most posters here would rather use the terms conservatives and progressive liberals. Not all Republicans are conservatives nor all Democrats progressives. Remember the Reagan Democrats....

Wayne | 2.18.11 @ 3:41PM

All Democrats are progressives. Nancy Pelosi proved that. The Reagan Democrats have gone the way of the Dodo bird.

simon templar| 2.18.11 @ 4:54PM

Wayne, there are quite a few still alive and voted with us in the last election. Just trying to make a point that the terms the media use are sometimes distractions and inaccurate.

VBMax| 2.18.11 @ 4:43PM

Well..... there is also a difference in ethics and morality.

martin j smith| 2.18.11 @ 2:46PM

You know there is an analogy between Egypt and Wisconsin --but not the one that Government Union talks about. I see chas in manyy states locally with similar kinds of protests and if the US government shuts down there will be even more

THIS IS PURPOSELY SET UP PLAN IN MY OPINION. IT MAY BE NECESSARY SHOULD THIS SITUATION OCCUR TO CALL IN NATIONAL GUARDS AS LAW ENFORCEMENT.

THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT IS THAT ONE OF THE MAJOR POLITICAL PARTIES IS CHOOSING TO PURPOSELY DESTROY THIS COUNTRY. IT HAS BEEN THEIR GOAL AND THEIR DREAM.
IT WILL BE NECESSARY TO GO TO THE VOTERS AND TELL THEM THEY MUST CHOOSE. AND, BEYOND THAT THERE WILL BE A QUESTION OF WHO IN OUR GOVERNMENT AND ESPECIALLY LAW ENFORCEMENT ARE LOYAL TO ?
I WORRY THAT WE ARE HEADING TO CIVIL WAR II--a fighting war not just a lot of talk.

Nancy in NC| 2.18.11 @ 4:30PM

Unfortunately, I'm afraid you may be right. If these morons cause all this ruckus when asked to contribute to their own pension plans and health care, can you imagine what will happen if and when they are told there is no money to pay them anymore. They fail to see this as a possible reality. They have rode the gravy train for years, and now said train is stuck at the station and they must disembark. What a darn shame.

The need for unions has come and gone. I think it would be fair to say that 90% of the unions are as corrupt as the government, and much closer in thinking to Marx than Madison.

Oldefarte| 2.20.11 @ 9:52AM

Martin, I agree that there's not only a similarity between the Middle East and the now Wisconsin/Ohio situations, but hopefully it won't have to come to a physical civil way conclusion IF THE CITIZENS/TAXPAYERS OF THIS COUNTRY GET THEIR COLLECTIVE HEADS OUT OF THEIR REAR-ENDS AND FINALLY REALIZE WHAT HAS BEEN OCCURRING FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS. It only takes a matter of going to the polls on election day and choosing the correct/best candidates!!!!!!!!!!!!

simon templar| 2.18.11 @ 3:17PM

Martin..your concerns are noted but this is not Egypt. The people of Wisconsin will express their concerns peacefull and assertively tomorrow..a huge rally is scheduled. We have a system that our founding fathers have given us....trust in that. The vast American people are good and know the importance of restraint...and the uslessness of violence. If violence comes it will be from the left as it always has..if it happens the left knows this will be a very big mistake on their part as the public will figure it out and the truth will evetually be revealed. Think about it. This is why they are called progressives..they know damn well that Americans will not tolerate violent revolution and mobs...thus the slow poison and deceptive approach.

Smirking Weasel| 2.18.11 @ 3:26PM

Yet, some leeches are more equal than others.
Walker has proposed exempting cops and fire
people from the limits on collective bargaining
and level of wage increases. Aren't all public
employees the same, at least in terms of status
in regard to fundamental treatment and process
as public employees? Or, might Walker be bribing
the(for now) legally sanctioned purveyors of
public violence as down payment for their eventual role as thug 'n stooge, despite the neo con caterwauling about threats 'n violence from
other public employees. The possibilities widen...

simon templar| 2.18.11 @ 3:36PM

Your post name seems to fit perfectly. What are you rambling about? Make your self clear or post somewhere else. No, I would guess not all are the same a they perform different functions...some more critical than others. So when your house is burning down or you are being robbed..maybe you should call a teacher next time to help you. IDIOT.

Maryland Lady| 2.18.11 @ 3:27PM

Libs say "this is how I FEEL" -- Conservatives say this is what I THINK. Liberalism is the easy way to everything.

wodiej| 2.18.11 @ 6:30PM

Whoah...right on!

Peter McGrath| 2.18.11 @ 4:07PM

The whining Madison Mob - led by the "Greatest Community Organizer of All Time" - is already discredited. The entire country stares, appalled, at the shocking display of gross selfishness by these so-called "public servants."

It is obvious who they serve, and it ain't little Johnny, home from school (for a third day) while the clueless teach stuffs herself into an SEIU T-shirt and heads out lugging a sign demanding "Social Justice."

It's cringe-inducing to watch adults behave like the juveniles they're charged with educating. These jabbering twits are agitating at the behest of hysterical union bosses and politicians, desperately watching as their filthy, graft-stained fingers are being pried off the public treasury, hopefully once and for all time.

Among the greatest scandals of our time is collective bargaining between government employee unions and corrupt hacks elected to government as a result of campaign contributions (once again, tax dollars) from the public employee unions. It's like raccoons bargaining with the fox in charge of the henhouse as to how many eggs they'll both get to eat. Both the 'coons and the fox engorge themselves until the hens are dead - with nothing ever hatching.

martin j smith| 2.18.11 @ 4:14PM

Simon Templar I hope you are right. My view is that there will be a need for an enormous Tea Party rally
so large that no one can ignore it. Beyond that , I sadly believe that there is right now a "game" of Russian Rulette by the Socialist Democrat Party. Or a game of chicken. This Socialist Marxist side does not give one darn about the American people
and every day it becomes obvious that Obama and his entire gang and the vast majority of ALL DEMOCRATS locally. They will have to not only called on their "game" but there will have to be investigations and even CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS INCLUDING AGAINST OBAMA HIMSELF.

terrie| 2.18.11 @ 4:32PM

There is a Tea Party rally scheduled for tomorrow (Saturday Feb 19) from noon til 3p at the Capitol in Madison. They'd have done it sooner, be most members have a job they respect and won't walk out on. No doubt, the grounds will be clean when they leave, and the state-controlled media won't carry any coverage of it.

terrie| 2.18.11 @ 4:33PM

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/116450723.html

Clint| 2.18.11 @ 5:28PM

Rally in Madison, WI

Wisconsin's elected officials are working to keep their promises to cut spending.
Tomorrow the Tea Party groups in Wisconsin will have a rally in Madison at the State Capital at 12:00 noon.

Oldefarte| 2.20.11 @ 9:47AM

Martin, Absolutely this is a 'game' and it will be played out by these DOMESTIC TERRORISTS in practically each/every state in this country before this is over. Courageously, Walker, Kascish etc are making the first LINE IN THE SAND stand on this issue of the absuridity of labor union wages/benefits being forcibly paid to these governmental workers [and PAID BY US TAXPAYERS]!!!!!!!!!

Peter Skurkiss| 2.18.11 @ 4:16PM

There are several things that the public-sector union protest in Wisconsin show.

First, the Democrat Party is actual America’s Labor Party. All pretense otherwise should be dropped for the sake of clarity.

Second, union money, a significant proportion of which comes from compulsory dues, corrupts the political process. It funds not just labor issues but the entire agenda for the Left. This includes but is not limited to candidates who support higher taxes & spending, abortion, blockage of education reform, gun control, affirmative action & racial quotas, appointment of radical judges, and amnesty for illegal aliens.

Third, the incestuous relationship between Big Labor and the Democrat Party works against the interest of society, and especially the underprivileged. That so many teachers in Wisconsin would just walk off their jobs speaks volumes of just how unprofessional (and destructive) they are.

Yes indeed, if the Republicans governors are successful in controlling public sector unions, this will be like defanging a dangerous snake.

Go for it, boys.

Nancy in NC| 2.18.11 @ 4:33PM

Fangs could grow back...better to cut off the head of that snake!

wodiej| 2.18.11 @ 6:28PM

Well said.

old progmr| 2.18.11 @ 4:58PM

I fear a civil war of sorts is coming. The private employee taxpayer base against the NEW privileged class, the Public Employee. As one of those taxpayers, I also fear I know the winner of this conflict. The Unions and bigger and bigger Government, because there are more of them than of us. Obama has clearly stated who he is allied with, and it sure ain't the taxpayers or we private business people, it's with the government, the Unions and the welfare class. To Obama, I am just a source of funding, but those funds are running very low. It will then all come tumbling down and in the very, very near future. This is going to end very badly, even for the Union thugs.

Bob Grant| 2.18.11 @ 8:03PM

I'm afraid as well.

Tax revolts in California, NY, and Illinois.
Union protests in the remaining states.
Counter protests in every state.

I've noticed the common denominator in all the rallies is the age group: Overwhelmingly over the age of 35.

What happens when the under-35er's push themselves away from their video games, and other assorted virtual realities and become involved? What side will they take?

One thing you can be certain, when they decide to get involved, the demonstrations will cease to be peaceful.

Interesting times in which we are living.

Tenn Slim| 2.19.11 @ 10:51AM

Could not have stated the situation better.
We do indeed live in troubled times.
Wait until the DC Gov is shut down next week.
Stand BY
Semper FI
end

MikeD| 2.19.11 @ 10:04PM

I hope you use those words carefully, with pride and a clear understanding of what they mean; and what they mean to, and about, those who invoke them.

SEMPER FI

vladdy| 2.19.11 @ 8:37PM

Lots of "union people" only join because of law and are on the conservative side. They'll join us.

On the other hand, very few of us would break rank and join with the union people.

I like the odds.

BL in AK| 2.18.11 @ 5:28PM

I have been employed in the private sector for more than 25 years and have paid for all of my benefits, health, dental, vision and into my 401K during that time. Back in 2008, an old neighborhood friend from California visited us and during the time when we weren't out showing him the greatness of Alaska outdoors, he would do his Tai Chi exercises. He mentioned that he spent most of his working hours doing the exercises since he was part of a union that made the company he worked for pay him no matter if he was producing or not, because he was to be there for "on-call" purposes. So he got paid for producing nothing, just showing up! That is what union folks love, being paid for just showing up and laughing at the rest of us who must produce and pay our own share of the benefits we choose. BTW, this years Open Season for benefits at my company went up 18% from 2010, and I only got a 2% raise. No negotiations allowed, but you can opt out and purchase other vendor services not offered by the company.

wodiej| 2.18.11 @ 5:53PM

Petition to support Gov. Walker of Wisconsin

http://americansforprosperity.org/walker/

vladdy| 2.19.11 @ 8:41PM

Thank you. I had already emailed, but now I signed the petition as well. All our new conservative governors need our support; BO and Co. are going to make it tough on 'em.

believer| 2.18.11 @ 6:08PM

Let the citizens of Wisconsin allow the unions to decieve them with silver tougued lawyers and 12.00 dollar words, then they'll be in the same boat as California. Just my county alone (Kern) was assessed with a seperate tax of $22 million just to pay for the shortfall of the State pension fund, that is seperate from the state pension fund. just thank God you dont have the illegal problems.

FTM| 2.18.11 @ 7:13PM

You know...

I got boo'd pretty good here on this website three or four weeks ago when I suggested that the Unites States of America was headed for a military dictatorship.

Now, I'll tell you the truth, I'd have never picked Madison, Wisconsin to be the first place to have this kind of trouble, not in a brazillian years. My money would have been on Los Angles or San Fran-sicko or New Orleans or Detroit or some other Marxist-Socialist Democrat saturated and controlled utopia.

From what I've been reading there are three or five more state capitals headed for the same little fiasco. Komrad Jackson and company have showed up to get their slice of the pie. Go figure.

The Democrats in Madison, Wisconsin have left the state in order to stop a lawfully elected majority of "those people" from enacting the apparent "will of the People." This is surely a criminal act, wouldn't you say? Is it a stretch at all to say that this is an illegal attempt to stop due process? If one were to determine the location of the valiant and noble Democrats could these same Democrats be extradited back to Wisconsin? Any bets?

Now, the next question, how long can the state of Wisconsin afford to have just the cops attempt to keep the peace? There's a whole lot of pissed off freeloaders and not to many cops. Truth be told, most of the cops are probably on the side of the freeloaders. The FOP, The Fraternal Order of Police after all is a state employee union. How long can one expect it to be before the Wisconson National Guard is mobilized? How long before the State of Wisconsin can't afford to pay the Wisconsin National Guard and ask for federal financial assistance.

Now, I know that we have an outright communist regieme in DC these days but being asked to assume military control of one of the fifty states would be awfully tempting even for President Obama. How many other states go the same route and end up in the same shape? Five states are ten percent of the nation, ten states are twenty percent and so on.

So, anyone still doubt that the US is headed for a military dictatorship? Seems to me that the stage is set for the takeover.

Not that I'm saying that a military dictatorship of the United States would be a bad thing. I can't see that the Joint Chiefs could do much worse than the duly elected civilian government has done. I can actually see some advantages, somehow or another I can't see that the freeloaders, both foreign and domestic getting a lot of sympathy from the military. I'd say that the military would put your kids in a day care and put your freeloading "gubment dependant" ass to work, based on a physical provided, "free of charge" by a Military Doctor, Medics or Corpsmen. Those guys say that you're able to work and they put your sorry free loading ass in a deuce and a half and go find something for you to do.

I can just imagine the reaction of the "Lame Stream Media" to a state govenor who's first name is "Admiral."

Stuff like that. That would be a damned shame.

If you are in the country illegally I'd say that about now would be a really, really good time to cut and run. Somehow or another I can't see that a military courts marshal is going to look upon your political/social/economic status with a great deal of sympathy.

I'm a Navy Veteran. I've lived under the UCMJ, the Universal Code of Military Justice. It's really not all that bad. The UCMJ is pretty much color and class blind. If you get on the bad side of the UCMJ then you'll have a bad time but otherwise the casual observer would probably not be able to tell the difference. The criminals would be put into a prison compount with real live, honest to God machine guns in the towers, real live razor wire and land mines. Artillery with all shittin' aside DPICM rounds waiting for a prison riot. Spend twelve hours a day, six days a week making gravel instead of learning how to be a better criminal. I can see this working out pretty good actually.

One can only speculate at this point but I can see this heading toward the military dictatorship end real easy. There are several other states that are perched on the edge of this self same debacle.

Anyway, remember folks, you heard it here first.

FTM| 2.19.11 @ 1:01AM

I didn't come right out and say it but you know that the public sector unions are only half of the equation. The welfare class is the other half. When the welfare class don't get their cost of living adjustments and the like, a place like Madison, Wisconsin will be in flames.

The welfare class will gladly burn a town to the ground over an assinine basket-brawl or a foot-brawl game. Imagine what these good folks will do when somebody starts tinkering around with "Their" money.

FTM| 2.19.11 @ 2:45AM

"Heard about Houston? Heard about Detroit? Heard abput Pittsburgh, PA? You ought to know not to stand by the window, somebody see you up there."

FTM| 2.19.11 @ 2:49AM

HA-HA-HA...

And I thought that my jokes were bad.

Joker

vladdy| 2.19.11 @ 8:44PM

That was a joke? Thanks, I couldn't figure it out.

FTM| 2.20.11 @ 4:49AM

Have you ever heard of Cassandra? There is a constellation in the sky, the constellation Cassandra. Sometimes she's called "the Queen" or sometimes "the Queen of Heaven" something like that anyway.

According to the Greek story, Cassandra wound up in dutch with one or more of the gods. They decided to do Cassandra some dirt therefore they gave Cassandra the gift of being able to foretell the future. Then just because the gods have a really ugly sense of humor they decided that every time Cassandra told the future that she would never be believed.

This being able to tell the future and never being believed put Cassandra into the position of a forever, "I told you so." It didn't take too long for folks to get tired of Cassandra and they killed her. Kind of what you'd expect of the center portion of the Bell curve.

Now, I don't claim to be Cassandra or to be able to fortell the future but from my chair it's not too hard to extrapolate a series of events into a small and finite set of possible outcomes. The outcome of a military dictatorship seems to me to be a likely outcome. I hope not but time will tell.

Jerk.

Tenn Slim| 2.19.11 @ 10:47AM

Agree, mostly.
The Obama admin seeks actively for "crisis" management AKA Saul Alynski rules and regs.
IF and G.. forbid, this spreads, AKA The North African Coast demos, we have a ready made "crisis' just befor Congress really gets started on budget cuts, defunding and more.
Stand By!!
Semper FI

chris haynes| 2.18.11 @ 10:19PM

Walker is a dope.

He could get the unions to cave in 5 minutes, if he knew how.

Gov. Mitch Daniels of Indiana. Here's what he would do: Call the Democrats and say this: "No more social issues, I support abortion". What would the Democrats say? Its obvious: "Okay Walker, in that case, the unions get a haircut. No more collective bargaining. No more freebies."

Mitch Daniels. Serious Thinking.

YOU SAID WHAT?| 2.18.11 @ 10:53PM

Don't tell us, Kaminsky..tell them. Go tell them to their faces that they are leeches. I promise to pay your return airfare if you do.

Bydand76| 2.20.11 @ 1:17PM

Tell you what smart ass. Why don't you come up here to my state (WI) and help pay for my tax increase for the teachers paycheck and and at the same time deal with a 12% pay cut in your own private sector job.
Hmmm? How about you do that instead?

Nite| 2.18.11 @ 11:41PM

Humm, teachers called in sick when they weren't, causing entire school systems to be closed. Teachers took students with them, and the students did not understand what they were doing there. I would notify teachers that if they were not in school on Tuesday that they would be fired, as well as other government works who lied about sick leave. The Governor should notify the Dems who ran off (like children) that according to state law, they would be fined, charges pressed against them or whatever the law allows. Republicans should do whatever they can to get the laws passed. If state employees refuse to go back to work, then fire them. I worked in Texas for a governmental agency and paid more of my pension and healthcare than these jerks. What makes them better than anyone else?

Charles Stevens| 2.19.11 @ 5:59AM

The whole concept of public unions should be illegal, in that it allows members to be represented twice, once directly at the negotiating table as a union member, and again at the polling booth as a citizen of the locality. Simultaneously, each of those privately-employed citizens who together pay the bulk of the union members' salaries have but one vote, and effectively no power to fight off the unions' ever-greedier demands. One man, one vote? Not with public unions, who offer nothing but specious rationalizations and thuggery when challenged. Public unions are undemocratic in theory, and stink of nothing but corruption in reality. They must all be dissolved.

tmk| 2.19.11 @ 7:55AM

I guess elections only have consequences if the Democrats win. The fickle fourteen (dem senators) have run away from home after being told they can't have any more candy! I'm amazed at the distain they show for their constituents.
Is there any way they can be dismissed for Dereliction of duty, and have the Gov, appoint new senators pending special elections. Maybe docking their pay until they return to duty. What a bunch of losers!

martin j smith| 2.19.11 @ 8:15AM

I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT THE TOPIC OF CIVILITY ANYMORE. ARE WE CLEAR ON THAT ?

I BELIEVE THAT GOVS. FROM A GROUP OF STATES SHOULD SPEAK DIRECTLY TO THE CITIZENS OF THEIR STATES AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AS TO WHAT IS AT RISK WITH THESE THUGS.
EQUALLY IMPORTANT IT WILL VERY SOON TIME FOR REPUBLICAN LEADERS TO HOLD NUMEROUS PRESS CONFERENCES TALKING ABOUT UNION THUGGERY AND THE THREAT TO OUR DEMOCRACY.

Oldefarte| 2.19.11 @ 11:31AM

Martin, I agree with your thoughts 100%, but I think this situation requires MORE THAN WHAT YOU SUGGEST. IMO, any governor should FIRE/TERMINATE any of their protesting/striking [teachers, policemen, firemen, etc not doing their employment contracted jobs should be considered as striking] state government workers, just as Reagan did with the air traffic controllers in the 1980's. If firing them is impossible because of their employment contracts legal terminology, then governors and state legislators should immediately pass their instituted legislation amending/changing same legal terminology to provide them the ability to do same [and then fire them]. Correspondingly, any parents of children that are taken out of school classrooms by teachers and told to demonstrate should immediately surround their respective schools and demand that said teachers be fired!!!!!!!!!

WriteLeftThatsIt | 2.19.11 @ 9:33AM

Unfortunately, the comparison to Egypt is a correct one: public unions are fighting an Independence War for Dependence.

The magical entitlement tour is currently stopped in Wisconsin, but soon it will hit a major state capital near you. Excited? With the state Democrat party on furlong, we are witnessing an interesting display of political maturity to address taxpayer concerns. Halfway across the country, in either direction, a local community has similar concerns, but we can’t take our ball and go home. We are home and we see that our towns and states are going bankrupt and we are being held hostage by public unions. Let’s just raise our local taxes anyway just so teachers don’t have to contribute more to their retirement or healthcare.

martin j smith| 2.19.11 @ 9:52AM

Obama has put his foot on the other side and he will pay one way or another. If ANYTHING HAPPENS OF A VIOLENT NATURE HE WILL BE BLAMED AND SHOULD BE ALONG WITH HIS UNION FRIENDS.

I ALSO WONDER IF OBAMA SUPPORT FOR GOVERNMENT UNIONS PUTS HIS PRESIDENCY AT RISK BECAUSE IT IS IN CONFLICT WITH THE REST OF THE VOTERS WHO ARE MEMBERS OF GOVERNMENT UNIONS.
COULD THIS BE GROUNDS TO ASK HIM TO RESIGN OR BE IMPEACHED. AND,IF G-D FORBID ANY VIOLENCE AND AS A CONSEQUENCE BLOOD IS SPILLED IT IS HE THAT SHOULD BE POINTED TO WITH BLOOD ON HIS HANDS. That is my take on Obama's position.

Oh yeah one other thing: Hows "hope and change" doin for you now ?

Oldefarte| 2.19.11 @ 11:35AM

Martin, I agree and think that his partisanly taking sides with the unions over the respective governors of states SHOULD BE [ALONG WITH HIS SUING ARIZONA AND PREVENTING DRILLING PERMITS TO BE ISSUED IN LOUISIANA] LEGAL GROUNDS FOR IMPEACHMENT ALSO!!!!!!!!!

martin j smith| 2.19.11 @ 9:54AM

I left out a key word NOT --as is not MEMBERS OF GOVERNMENT UNIONS-sorry-the brain is slower than the hand. 1111111111111

Tenn Slim| 2.19.11 @ 10:42AM

Opine
Wisconsin folks, North of Madison, fully understand the debacle in thier Capital. Unions, Progressives, Leftists, all out there. Understand the Tea Party Cavalry is coming, also.
Consider this. A 2012 win by the Tea Party folks, a Congress dedicated to cutting spending in 2013, and a Union of Public Civil servants. Demos in DC. certainly a picture old George Soros would love to see.
Folks. Lose this Madison Wisc. fight, and we are defintely over the Dark Ages abyss.
end
Semper FI

FTM| 2.19.11 @ 5:11PM

Actually this situation turns over more than one rock.

A state legislature paralized by a political/criminal element. Aided and abetted by the federal political/criminal element. Look for the federal government to follow suit soon when the House starts acting on it's budget cutting agenda and the senate and the White House start raising hell about it.

An "Independant and Objective" media that supports, aids and abets the political/criminal element. --For example, imagine that the other side were to have left the state over some issue derailing the due legislative process. Wolf Blitzer would be rolling around on the ground with his eyes rolled back in his head, drooling with snot running out of his nose if the Republicans had pulled this stunt.

This is not to say that the Republicans are above pulling a stunt like this at all. The Republican party has it's own share of foolishness to answer for.

The aspect of this crisis situation spreading like a contagon throughout the country being real.

State and local governments not being able to react to the crisis in any meaningful fashion.

Take a read at ancient history, this situation arose an ancient Athens. The city passed from a democratically elected government to a tryanny over foolish fiscal policy on a couple different occasions. Same thing happening here.

cyberdog| 2.19.11 @ 10:59AM

Memo to those cowardly lawmakers who skipped out of the state: We wont forget this act. Start planning your retirement now because come next election we will put you back on that bus.

beebop| 2.19.11 @ 12:11PM

This is the double edged sword -- they stand to benefit from hefty retirement benefits themselves. Double Dipping ... Triple Dipping is not unheard of.

beebop| 2.19.11 @ 12:24PM

I have a thought for you: If you are so confident that there is a better place to live, GO THERE and leave this country to the adults. And. Please quit posting here. You are an imbecile. Was "benighted" the word of the day on your desk calendar? This is not the place to practice its use. Try constitutional law school lecturing. It might lead you to something better though not necessarily something to which you are suited,

proreason| 2.19.11 @ 1:31PM

The situation in Wisconsin is fantastic.

Let them take all of the masks off...including little lenin.

This might just save the country, since Americans need to be clubbed over the head before they put down their clickers and look around.

purple | 2.19.11 @ 6:53PM

Very interesting article. I agree with your conclusions.

Richard Baker| 2.19.11 @ 8:49PM

Back in the late '70s I saw a TV interview of a UAW worker who complained that with what he was being paid, which by the way was pretty good for the era, that he'd have to take his vacation in the US, instead, as if this was unconscionable. The unions, as my tool and diemaker Grandfather told me in Detroit, were needed badly back in the '30s. I agree and the history bears him out. However, the union mentality in the last 35-40 years has been that you owe me these extravagent packages regardless of the industry or the effect these wages have on the competitiveness/health of the firm. The game's over whether in the private or public sector and not a moment too soon.

me| 2.19.11 @ 8:54PM

The educational system in the U.S. is lame. Teachers as a whole are just as lame. Most of them don't give a crap about the students. They end up being overpaid babysitters. Get rid of the unions and most teachers for that matter.

BackToBasics| 2.19.11 @ 11:21PM

I saw a picture of a sign held by a pro-governor Walker supporter that said, "PAY YOUR FAIR SHARE."

This is so concise and easy to understand.

I recommend it to become the RALLYING CRY of Republican leaders at all levels as well as citizens concerned about the issues surrounding out-of-control benefits for government workers.

It could also be extended to other individuals and organizations who take more and more taxpayer money with little to show for it.

PAY YOUR FAIR SHARE - Great sign!!!! Great rallying cry!!!!

Brother Nitals| 2.20.11 @ 4:17AM

You’re Among Friends
To those who are observing the political scene unfolding in our state of Wisconsin, in light of Gov. Scott Walker’s “budget repair” bill, and its proposal to largely eliminate collective bargaining rights for hundreds of thousands of public employees, in a week no less, we would offer the following examples of the mindsets of those who support the idea. As a state, we once used the bumper sticker “You’re Among Friends” to attract those from other states to what we saw as an extraordinary quality of life: good government, good schools, and good people. Before that, we used “We Like It Here” as a slogan, and we did. We had people in office like former Gov. Tommy Thompson, who did not eliminate his political opponents, but was content to merely outsmart them. As a Republican, his relationships with state union leaders were so abrasive and contentious that his Democratic challengers charged him with being “in bed” with them. We are not likely to hear similar comments for some time. Despite their differences, many of Tommy’s came to call him a friend. Former Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle bargained hard with the unions, but enjoyed their political support. To say that we miss these men today would be an incredible understatement.
With events unfolding as they are, things no longer seem as friendly as they once were, and some are coming to like the state less and less. Here’s why:
“It’s That Simple”
In a Feb. 18 press release, State Representative Steve Nass (R-Whitewater) noted that he “has heard the demands of the taxpayers” and will vote for Walker’s budget repair bill. “Enactment of this bill will save approximately 10,000 to 12,000 family sustaining public sector jobs over the next two years, while achieving reasonable cost reductions for the taxpayers. A vote in favor of the Budget Repair Bill is a vote for the people. A vote against this bill is a vote in favor of the public sector union bosses. It’s that simple and there can be no compromise. This is a defining moment for the future of our state and the families that call Wisconsin home.”
Response: It is not that simple. A vote in favor of the bill indeed is a vote for some people (Gov. Walker received 53 percent of the vote), and one against does help the union bosses. Left out of the analysis set forth by Rep. Nass here, however, are the hundreds of thousands of lives of teachers and state employees that would also be dramatically affected. Regardless of how ones views the union bosses, many would feel that the others hundreds of thousands of lives might be worth mentioning. The jobs that Rep. Nass is referring to, by the way, are those that would not become layoffs because of the bill.
“The Will of the People”
On Feb. 18, State Sen. Mary Lazich (R-New Berlin) issued the following statement in reaction to Senate Democrats’ decision to abscond to Illinois and to fail to show up to work for the second consecutive day. “By failing to show up for work for a second day, Democrats have shown a true lack of regard for Wisconsin taxpayers, the institution of state government and their fellow elected officials. Running away to Illinois is not only childish, it's also an affront to the will of the people. “
Response: Admittedly, Republicans regained the governorship and took control of both houses of the Legislature in November 2010. But the notion that “the will of the people” is for a half-century of settled law in the realm of collective bargaining to be swept away in a week, with only a single, 17-hour public hearing is a little hard to swallow. The unions do not want to see this happen, of course, but to the extent that the issue is out there, it needs to be discussed at some length. As some of you may know, we in this state take pride in our educational institutions, particularly the world-renowned University of Wisconsin-Madison. Given that Gov. Walker was insisting that the state budget repair bill be passed in only a few days, there was little or no time for UW-Madison experts, or for that matter virtually any other expert, to study the proposal in detail and come up with a reasonable, rational analysis of its effects. This is why we continue to discover, on an almost daily basis, what the practical consequences of virtually eliminating collective bargaining might be, such as the prospective loss of substantial sums of federal mass transit aids, for example. This is why we have to take our time to think this through. We did not get where we are overnight, and we are not going to understand what the proposal to vastly modify collective bargaining rights for public employees fully means overnight either. “Enact laws and ask questions later” is not the will of the Wisconsin people, but in fact is precisely contrary to Wisconsin’s historical traditions of thoughtful, careful deliberation in public affairs.
No Compromise
As State Sen. Mark Miller (D-Monona) has indicated, in a Feb. 18 letter to Gov. Walker, public employees across the state “made very clear their willingness to cooperatively accept additional pension and health insurance concessions in order to do their part to help Wisconsin close a 2011 budget gap, and to assist in reducing the state's deficit going forward.”
Response: Unfortunately, Gov. Walker refuses.
“Only a Matter of Time”
In a Feb. 18 press release, State Reps. Jeff Fitzgerald, Scott Suder and Robin Vos stated that they recessed the Assembly because of security concerns. “We will reconvene on Tuesday morning and are confident that the security concerns will no longer exist. We are committed as ever to pass Governor Walker’s Budget Repair Bill and will do so next week. Millions of taxpayers spoke in November and we will not let them down. We have a fiscal crisis that can’t be ignored. We have the votes to pass the bill; it is only a matter of time.”
Response: Everyone knows that they have the votes. The point is that millions of taxpayers who spoke in November had not been given the slightest indication, in the gubernatorial or any other campaign, that collective bargaining rights were going to be largely eliminated four months later. If they had, some, and perhaps many, would have voted differently. While some may feel “let down” if the bill should somehow fail to pass, it is safe to say at this point that there are others who will feel the same way if it passes. That is why there are 80,000 people traipsing around the Capitol, many of them talking about recalling Gov. Walker in January 2012. It is not entirely clear that those who supported Walker in his campaign will feel the same level of angst if collective bargaining remains intact. Either way, some will be let down – the difference is that if it does pass, hundreds of thousands of people will find themselves in a completely different work environment, all because of a proposal that came out of the blue, with the expectation that it pass a week later, with little or no genuine or thoughtful discussion in legislative hearings. We spend months in this state reviewing issues like nanotechnology and single-use plastics in order to come up with a bill to make changes in the law regarding these topics. But undermining collective bargaining should only take a week, with a single hearing? Get real.
“False Impressions”
The Tea Party’s Wisconsin Patriot Coalition has weighed in on its reaction to teacher sick-outs and the students who have accompanied them. “Nearly every child with whom WPC members spoke at the Capitol this week wrongly believed that their teachers’ jobs were at risk, that school funding would be cut, or that favorite courses or programs would be eliminated. No such measures are currently on the table. Yet, those are the battles these children think they are helping to fight. Where did they get these false impressions if not directly from their teachers and, indirectly, from the unions that represent those teachers?
Response: The jobs that teachers have are “at risk” in the sense that, in the absence of virtually all of the collective bargaining rights that they currently have, their jobs will change dramatically. Although they would retain other civil service protections, it remains to be seen how effective they will actually be in practice. As for whether school funding will be cut, the administration is expected to be announcing unprecedented reductions in aid to local governments, including schools, in a matter of days.
Sick-Outs “Fully Merit” Job Termination
The Patriot Coalition has also charged that “engaging in “sick-outs” in order to protest at the State Capitol is lying and a breach of contract. Encouraging students to be complicit in such behavior in an effort to get one’s own way is exploitative, particularly when the reasons for that protest are not truthfully communicated. It likewise fully merits termination of employment.”
Response: Calling in sick when one is not is wrong, and should be punished. Losing one’s job over it is, to most Wisconsinites, quite extreme. With or without collective bargaining, such a termination would undoubtedly be overturned by the courts.

FTM| 2.20.11 @ 7:31AM

I don't even know where to start on this one.

Seems to me that when one political climate prevails you talk out of one side of your mouth and when the other political climate prevails you talk out of the other. Your Democrat elected officials are criminals. They were elected to do a job. They decided not to show up for work. You do that in the real world and that's it, game over, you lose your job. That statement in and of itself contrasts the difference between your position and the position prevailing in the private sector. I bet that this bunch of yo-yos still expect to get paid.

Your post is a satire post, right? You're not serious are you?

Now suppose that a collection of private sector folks were to show up down at the state capital, perhaps even accompanied with a collection of kidnapped kids, to protest something or another. What would your attitude be?

You say that there are hundreds of thousands of public sector employees in Wisconsin? How can that be? Google says that Wisconsin has a population of a little five and a half million people. Exactly how many hundred thousand public sector employees does Wisconsin have?

According to what I've read the average school teacher in Wisconsin (I avoid saying "Earns") is paid $100,005 dollars per year, salary and benifits combined. Just for the sake of math lets assume that a school has fifty teachers on the payroll, not counting administration and all that. That's an annual payout of $5,000,250.00. Sorry, but from a private sector viewpoint that's lopsided as all hell. These folks work nine months out of the year. My typical work day is nine to ten hours and last year I got three Saturdays off. Your position is ridiculous. If the typical school teacher worked twelve hours a day for nine months straight, which they don't, they'd still be one hell of a shot away from my private sector norm. Add insult to injury and every damned time that you turn around school is out for an "in service day" or what ever other excuse can be produced. Cry me a river. A school teacher gets a one hour "Planning period" per day? Should read gets paid to screw off for an hour. So teachers "work" a seven hour work day?

Now as I understand it that governor is asking that state employees pay a part of their healthcare and retirement and the like. Union busting aside. Me in the private sector pay twenty percent of my healthcare, a number that increases every year. On top of that I have no retirement other than a 401k and socialist security. I'm a degreed engineer and frankly speaking I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that ninety-five percent of your school teacher buddies aren't qualified to pack my lunch. Do any of you folks know how to hard-wire reverse a 480 volt motor? Do any of you folks know how to do anything useful?

Your unions are out of control. That's a part of the problem. Case in point, a school teacher decides to take her or his class down to the state capital to protest the current political situation. You pull a stunt like that with my kid there's going to be a herd of cops looking for you with a kidnapping charge. Trust me on this one. This is in and of itself an outrage. I'm intrested in hearing how anybody with a room temperature IQ attempts to justify this stunt.

When I was in college in an engineering program, all the folks that flunked out, couldn't hack the math and physics and the like went to the college of education and got an education degree and a job as a teacher. I make way the hell of a lot less than a hundred grand a year in an auto plant.

Now, just how is it that you justify your position? There are a couple dozen different ways to get KILLED just walking up to a Super "A" transfer press. Tell me all about your paper cut that you got a month ago. Boo-hoo-hoo. Google a transfer press just in case you ever see one in a book or on the TV. You wouldn't know a days work if a days work walked up and bit you in the ass.

While you're at it tell me all about how these road crews "work" you got two guys that hold signs. I can see that. Then you have one guy engaged in some task or another and three watching him. Does the department of highways have that many trainees?

The public at large is completely correct in busting your unions and adjusting your compensation to match the real world instead of la-la land where you live. Your mealy-mouthed, rose-colored glasses, ivory tower attempt to justify the situation as it exists is laughable to folks that work for a living in the wild. As a matter of fact, your attempt to justify the situation as it exists is insulting to anyone with an average intelligence and works in the private sector. The apparent fact that you'd even attempt to justify your position is evidence on the face that you live in a completely different world than the mainstream.

My shift starts tonight at 2200. Just for shits and giggles why don't you come with me. Better bring your roller skates.

Jackass.

BackToBasics| 2.20.11 @ 1:58PM

PAY YOUR FAIR SHARE!

The governor is not against collective bargaining for wages but only for benefits such as health care payments and pension plans.

Why do you not care about the busting of the budget in Wisconsin and no doubt in Washington too? Why do you not care about the hardships this will bring to America and Americans in the NEAR future? Why do you not care that if Wisconsin does not enact budget and union reforms that 12000 people will be laid off if the current budget gap is not closed?

When the majority of Americans see Wisconsin teacher's averaging $100,000 / year demonstrating that they DEMAND that they NOT pay HALF the % of health care insurance that private business workers pay, etc. we see nothing but selfishness.

Here's another rallying cry:

STOP GOVERNMENT UNION SELFISHNESS!

PAY YOUR FAIR SHARE!

Brother Nitals| 2.20.11 @ 5:28AM

Let’s call a spade a spade: this is a willful attempt to abrogate worker rights, with virtually no genuine public discussion, under the patently absurd pretense that somehow we are so “broke” as a state and disillusioned as a society that we cannot take the time to make laws like civilized people. The public knows full well that WMC and WEAC are the two most powerful interest groups in the state, and almost no one voted for Walker because they thought he was going to outlaw the latter a month after taking office. That much is clear. As far as the concessions in the contract are concerned, we must show the public that we are reasonable people. After all, we work in government. Most Wisconsinites see our political system as flawed, but not so flawed that it will somehow be improved by yanking the rug out from under one of the two political parties, and creating an inordinately unlevel playing field over night, which is precisely what Walker and his allies hope to accomplish by this.
Most public employees live comparatively modest lives. They are not the real culprits behind today's economic woes and fiscal problems. The true culprits are in other lands, far away, watching this story unfold in earnest.
Unions help provide stability and consistency in public service. They help preserve a middle class that would otherwise be plunged into the inexorable race to the bottom that now bedevils the private sector.
Under the governor’s plan, most government workers - excluding police, firefighters and state troopers would have to pay half their pension costs and at least 12 percent of their health-care costs and would lose bargaining rights for anything other than pay, and that would be limited to inflation.
The proposal would save $300 million over the next two years to help reduce a $3.6 billion budget deficit. And he wanted it done within a week, with only one, 17-hour public hearing. Like it or not, those are the facts.
Now is not the time to wander blindly in the wilderness of the utopian. Now is not the time to think: "For us the movement is everything—the final aim is nothing" is the way of the fool.
State governments face budget deficits of $175 billion through 2013. Many believe state tax revenue will not fully recover until the U.S. returns to full employment, which is not likely for quite some time, if ever.
Beyond their short-term fiscal problems, many states face pension and retiree health-care costs that some experts contend are unsustainable.
States are curtailing retirement benefits for new employees, although many say it will take much more to bring their long-term obligations in line.
Make no mistake about it. The unions are not simply an arm of the Democratic party. Without them, the party will fall.
We will not regret the judgment that the time has come to get serious.
This is about taking away rights won over decades, in a matter or days, with little or no formal public discussion.
The governor has already called a special session of the legislature and granted business tax breaks and created health-care savings accounts that lower levels of already problematic tax revenues. Public workers are being asked to pick up the tab. But there is more to the story.
The governor is proposing to sharply curtail the right to bargain collectively. An economic downturn that is not the workers’ fault, and a reversal in fiscal fortunes not their doing is being used to permanently end their ability to sit across the table from their employer and negotiate anything but pay, and then only at hold-harmless levels at best. This is what the long and very troubling recession has wrought. Almost everyone can see that capitalism has had better days.
We must never forget this: this is a state where changes of far less magnitude take considerably longer to review and understand. Consider the workings of the Legislative Council, composed of legislators and citizens, who meet literally for months to examine complex issues of public policy.
This is the Wisconsin tradition, or at least it was, for decades. Has anyone reflected on the fact that in a state that happens to have an internationally-recognized public university known, for better or ill, as having a considerable knowledge base in the realm of labor relations, virtually no testimony from an expert on either side has been brought to bear on the question? For that matter, hardly anything of considerable depth was discussed at the Joint Finance Committee public hearing on the bill.
And another thing to keep in mind is that, aside from the procedural problems we keep finding out unpleasant things, such as the issue of the prospective loss of federal transportation funding.
Not everyone is taking the bait, even on the other side. Republican State Senator Luther Olsen has called it a “radical” move that will hurt “a lot of good working people.”
This is about changing the rules of the game. This is about political power, and who will yield it for years to come. Take away the union dues check-off, and you largely take away a political party, leaving the Republicans to conspire with their Tea Party allies over how to divide the spoils. This is their plan. They will not admit it, but this is their plan.
No private employer can do what the governor proposes. For decades, Wisconsin has protected the rights of workers to collectively bargain with their employer on wages, benefits, workplace rules, and many other aspects of their employment.
Public workers are not responsible for the state’s budget woes. The problem lies in China and India and Brazil, where they have learned from America how to beat America at its own capitalist game. We have no one to blame but ourselves and a world made smaller by time.
Think it cannot happen here, but it can. If they can take away these rights, they can take away others. And the worst is yet to come. Billions in local aid will be slashed, which is why Walker is handing out the “tools” to his allies in fact and to be now.
Wisconsin state government doles out much more to its local partners than almost any other state. And that is coming to an end, soon.
The stick is the taking back the money. The carrot is breaking the unions.
You are wrong in thinking that the situation is hopeless. That is what they want you to think.
Most Wisconsinites see our political system as flawed, but not so flawed that it will somehow be improved by yanking the rug out from under one of the political parties, and creating an inordinately unlevel playing field over night, which is precisely what Walker and his allies hope to accomplish by this.
If you do nothing, don’t complain if you don’t happen to see genuine two-party competition in Wisconsin next time around, or for some time to come. Like it or not, that is what is at stake here.
If Walker succeeds in undermining WEAC, AFT-Wisconsin, and the rest, forget about things like the public interest and free and fair elections. Hope as you will, you won’t have them anymore, and if it comes to pass, don’t blame us.
We will be reasonable, and make clear to the public that we will sacrifice, by paying more toward pensions and health care, to help the state along with its budget woes, but the public must also do its part by recognizing the obvious: this is not about money. It is not about government efficiency.
It is about raw political power. More precisely, it is about how you take away effective political power from people without formally denying them such things as votes. If you need to know anything about Walker’s plan, know this: left to its own devices, shorn of the support of organized public sector labor, the Democratic Party of Wisconsin will simply be a shadow of its former self. If you don’t believe it, jump on board with Walker and help save the state some money. But don’t complain if you don’t happen to see genuine two-party competition in Wisconsin next time around, or for some time to come. Like it or not, that is what is at stake here.
If Walker succeeds in undermining WEAC, AFT-Wisconsin, and the rest, forget about things like the public interest and free and fair elections. Hope as you will, you won’t have them anymore, and if it comes to pass, don’t blame us. We told you so, right here and now. Like it or not, my dear fellow electors of Wisconsin, if this goes through as planned, WMC will be laughing all the way to the ballot box, because they will rule, like corporatist oligarchs in South America, and you will not have the Wisconsin you once knew. Trust me. I know them all too well to think that they would let the opposition survive this. Most have had privileges that you have not 0 think they’re going to pass this one up?
Still think that this is not what is at stake? Guess again. ¬o one will stop them. The Republicans will walk all over them in elections for years, and they know it. The unions are the only thing keeping things reasonably competitive now, and they will be gone my friends, and no group of investment bankers or other union-friendly CEO’s is going to step up to bat in their place.
Barack didn’t move here when he left Harvard, he moved to Illinois. It’s a different state. And we’re not ¬ew York or California either. We’re Wisconsin. We don’t have enough of those kind of people to build a newly reinvigorated Democratic party. It won’t happen. The unions are the only thing keeping things reasonably competitive now, and they will be gone my friend. And you will see changes you thought you would never see. And remember, you won’t be able to take your case to state agency administrators, because they will all be political appointees as well. It will be the same state seal, but now it will be privately owned, rather than part of a public trust. Think of it as Mississippi with snow, with Packer players as the paradigmatic example of modern unionists. The Walker gambit is about allowing one political party to establish long-term dominance in the electoral realm by undermining the other. That is why Ellis and Olson and Schultz and Harsdotf are so torn over this. They are loyal Wisconsinites all, and good people, but they are loyal party members as well. It cannot be easy for them. Luther is probably the most publicly conflicted, and to his credit, he seems willing to acknowledge that maybe people who work for unions are lacking horns and tails. But the pressure being brought to bear is incredible. Part with us on this, and you may never be invited back. It is that serious. That is why we must be strong and fight.
And to do this, one needs to use a pretext. Believe what you may from the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel (once a great newspaper) or Fox, but the truth is plain to see: if the closest political allies of one political party are thoroughly undermined by act of law, the other will gain immensely. What that means for Wisconsin is entirely unclear, and we should not presume to really be able to prophesy the full ramifications. ¬o one really can. But to the extent that Wisconsinites believe in fair play and at least some semblance of competition in the electoral arena, they should be gravely concerned about Gov. Walker’s approach here. For the simple reason that as far as state and local government is concerned, you will not have any of this anymore. WMC will decide who runs for office, and gets to make the laws, not the voters.
That, my dear fellow citizens, whether you like it or not, is what this battle is about. Know thine enemy, but remember that you must also serve him as well. The Tea Partiers detest government, in part, for a reason deeply rooted in human nature – there is a natural, and immutable, human tendency to fear that which one only sees from the outside. They think government is to blame for a declining economy, and to some extent it is. But the true culprit is not the world of American government – federal, state and local – but governments in the world around America. Scott Walker can’t ramrod a bill through the Legislature outlawing China and Brazil from developing economies that lift millions out of poverty, and into the middle class, as America had done for our parents and grandparents. So he must look elsewhere to place the blame, and it has unfortunately fallen upon us. Will we be strong enough to show our fellow Wisconsinites that this blame is largely misplaced, and do so in a fashion that allows us to maintain their respect? That is the question we face, and I know that we have it within us to rise above the pettiness and the ignorance, and show the people of Wisconsin that the election last ¬ovember was about rebuilding an economy, not rebuilding an electoral process.
We have been around government too long to believe unions can be thrown upside down, and out, in a week and the effects on Wisconsin society and culture will be minimal. That’s what Walker wants you to believe. That’s why it’s so modest. Remember the last time we tossed 48 years of accumulated case law defining the rights and responsibilities of public workers out the window overnight? What happened then? That’s Walker’s biggest PR problem.
And one other thing: did Walker miss the political science course that covered the part about Wisconsin being a model of representative government for decades (along with Iowa and ¬ew Hamshire, which would never dream of doing what he is doing now? Try as he might, he cannot rewrite history, and the notion that the Wisconsin Idea was a superior way to go about making laws and governing is not some left-wing contrivance – it is a matter of historical fact. And it is this more than anything else that we are losing in this, at times, truly bizarre battle over whether we can muster enough troopers to bring a half-century of public unionism to its knees in a week.
And yet one other thing to keep in mind. There is a difference between heading a government and operating one. We’ve been doing the latter for quite a long time, and he started his new job last month. On January 3, 2011, to be precise, or a year before January 3, 2012, a date you may want to highlight now for the sake of convenience.
Clearly, one of the main problems with the Walker proposal to end collective bargaining in Wisconsin is simply procedural. The public knows this. We know are neighbors and friends. They are simply not going to believe that it is fair or proper for a half-century of worker rights to be stolen away, like some thief in the night. We must believe, more than anything else, in the common wisdom here. They know a serious deliberative body when they see one, and they know that we they are seeing now is anything but. And it matters little which brother you ask.
Only the foolish are being fooled (just watch the thoughtful analysis spew forth from the Tea Partiers on Saturday), and Corporate Wisconsin and the Koch brothers are doing the fooling. We must never forget this: this is a state where changes of far less magnitude take considerably longer to review and understand. Consider the workings of the Legislative Council, composed of legislators and citizens, who meet literally for months to examine complex issues of public policy. This is the Wisconsin tradition, or at least it was, for decades. To say that we have abandoned this in February 2011 is an understatement. Has anyone reflected on the fact that in a state that happens to have an internationally-recognized public university known, for better or ill, as having a considerable knowledge base in the realm of labor relations, virtually no testimony from an expert on either side has been brought to bear on the question? For that matter, hardly anything of considerable depth was discussed at the Joint Finance Committee public hearing on the bill. And another thing to keep in mind is that, aside from the procedural problems we keep finding out unpleasant things, such as the issue of the prospective loss of federal transportation funding. On the surface, going ahead without further substantive public debate on the possibility of losing considerable sums of federal funding for services that ultimately, could affect job creation, does not appear to be the wisest course of public policy. If it does, then it means that we have become a state government that hauls people in from all around the state to spend hours and hours going over nanotechnology and single-use plastics, generating hundreds of documents, but if we’re talking about negating a half-century of accumulated case law in state labor relations, and affecting the lives of hundreds of thousands of middle-class people, let’s rely on what a large group of frustrated state workers and students tell us over a period of 17 hours. From the standpoint of wisely governing a society, that would not appear to be the most meritorious approach. Some might think the latter topic of greater importance than the former topics, and therefore worthy of more detailed study. In fact, it is safe to say that most Wisconsinites would agree.
With events unfolding as they are, things no longer seem as friendly as they once were, and some are coming to like the state less and less. Here’s why:
Response: The jobs that teachers have are “at risk” in the sense that, in the absence of virtually all of the collective bargaining rights that they currently have, their jobs will change dramatically. Although they would retain other civil service protections, it remains to be seen how effective they will actually be in practice. As for whether school funding will be cut, the administration is expected to be announcing unprecedented reductions in aid to local governments, including schools, in a matter of days.
Sick-Outs “Fully Merit” Job Termination
The Patriot Coalition has also charged that “engaging in “sick-outs” in order to protest at the State Capitol is lying and a breach of contract. Encouraging students to be complicit in such behavior in an effort to get one’s own way is exploitative, particularly when the reasons for that protest are not truthfully communicated. It likewise fully merits termination of employment.”
Response: Calling in sick when one is not is wrong, and should be punished. Losing one’s job over it is, to most Wisconsinites, quite extreme. With or without collective bargaining, such a termination would undoubtedly be overturned by the courts.

FTM| 2.20.11 @ 8:12AM

Please see the above.

Jackass.

simon templar| 2.20.11 @ 10:01AM

YOUR FIRST PARAGRAPH STARTS WITH THE PREMISE, "under the patently absurd pretense that somehow we are so “broke” as a state...." Did not think we would catch that, did you? Typical. YOUR State IS Broke! So, is the nation! This is why it is useless to argue with left wing trolls. You start every response with a false premise and just run from there. La LA land of lies and distortions is exactly wher you live.

simon templar| 2.20.11 @ 10:06AM

Brother Nitwit: By the way, keep your post short and to the point. We really do not have time to read a rambling diatribe. You need not write a small book to make your points.

BackToBasics| 2.20.11 @ 2:02PM

I repeat from above:

PAY YOUR FAIR SHARE!

The governor is not against collective bargaining for wages but only for benefits such as health care payments and pension plans.

Why do you not care about the busting of the budget in Wisconsin and no doubt in Washington too? Why do you not care about the hardships this will bring to America and Americans in the NEAR future? Why do you not care that if Wisconsin does not enact budget and union reforms that 12000 people will be laid off if the current budget gap is not closed?

When the majority of Americans see Wisconsin teacher's averaging $100,000 / year demonstrating that they DEMAND that they NOT pay HALF the % of health care insurance that private business workers pay, because this is what your demonstration amount to, etc. we see nothing but selfishness, Brother, or I should say Comrade.

Here's another rallying cry:

STOP GOVERNMENT UNION SELFISHNESS!

PAY YOUR FAIR SHARE!

Shirley| 2.20.11 @ 5:56AM

It appears that the people in Wisconsin have a bunch of yellow bellied Democrats in office. They won't even show up to fight for their beliefs. Go figure.

beebop| 2.20.11 @ 5:26PM

They are told what to think by their union bosses. Beliefs? Outside their pay grade.

FTM| 2.20.11 @ 7:55AM

Everybody that has a kid in a public school, Wisconson or elsewhere, if your kid turns up MIA at the school because the teacher took them to a political demonstration, don't forget to trot straight down to the cop shop and swear out an arrest warrant for kidnapping.

Kidnapping is a federal offense.

If the local cops don't want to play ball with you then pick up the phone and call the state cops and swear out a warrant. Don't forget to ask for an internal investigation of the local cops.

If the state cops don't want in then call the FBI with an investigation of the state and local cops.

Both of my kids are grown up and gone but I swear to you if some jack-wagon walked out of the school with my kid they'd be going away for so long that nobody would even remember their names when they got back.

Sure as politicians lie.

FTM| 2.20.11 @ 8:39AM

By the bye, when the kids were in the public school system, from time to time there was trouble. Case in point, son got in a fight one day at the school. Kid took a punch at the Beast and the Beast retaliated according to program.

I gets a call down to the factory that the Beast was in a fight. Short fight, kid hit the beast, Beast center-punched the other kid, other kid down, game over.

Anyhoo, I check out of the factory, scoot down to the school to see what was up. They had the Beast locked up in a little glass walled closet. Didn't see the other kid.

The principal took me into a room with an accomplice. They explained the details of the fight, other kid hit first and the like. They explained that according to the school's policy that the Beast was going to get three days off for fighting.

I counter-explained that my policy superceeded the school's policy and that I was going to swear out an arrest warrant for the other kid because assault and battery is a felony crime. Age doesn't matter.

I also explained that I was going to swear out an arrest warrant for the principal and her stooge because not reporting a felony is in an of itself a felony.

Public school teacher stooges don't like having the facts of life explained to them. Not one little bit. I asked which one of the school teacher stooges were officers of the court and under what circumstances were they authorized to lock the Beast up? I asked how they'd like to have a school full of cops faster then they could say "Unlawful Detention."

Long story short, the Beast didn't get any time off and there weren't any more fight incidents. I told them that I was going to flip the safety off of the Beast. You do your job and there won't be any more trouble. Don't do your job and the next kid leaves laying down.

Same thing happened to the daughter. She got sexually assaulted down to the local county high school. She didn't tell me for about six weeks because she was afraid that I'd go on a rampage. I said, Naw, there's a lot of things worse than getting killed."

I picked up the phone and called down to the school and asked about the incident. I wasn't allowed to talk to the principal, I had to talk to an assistant principal. The assistant principal explained to me that the school had a policy in regards to sexual harassment and that the problem had been resolved. I explained the diffrerence between harassment and assault to this dumbass. He decided that I needed to talk to the principal. I said, "good idea."

I had the same conversation with the principal. I explained that if she called the cops that the kid would be going away. If I called the cops that she and her stooges and the kid would be going away Once again, not reporting a felony is a felony. She started blubbering right away and asked if she could talk to the school system's lawyer. I said, "of course." She promised to call back the next day.

Next day comes and the principal lady called at 800 sharp and informed me that she had talked to the lawyer and that the kid was in custody and that the school system's policy in regards to felony crimes committed on campus had been changed. I said, "thank you very much, that's exactly what I wanted to hear."

From that day forward the school system's superintendant would do a U-Turn and go the other way every time that she saw me. These people collectively are too stupid to have jobs to start with.

See kids, I'n not really a monster.

martin j smith| 2.20.11 @ 8:13AM

Brother Nitals ( or whoever you may be ). Not buyin your line. First off: The Government Unions ( the workers ) are paid with tax payer dollars. We are the actually employers thus who represents OUR interests ? Second do you disagree that this country is in a financial crisis ? If you do not accept that then you are not worthy of further responses. It is a total waist of time.
You are patently dishonest about your statements about. You talk about the majority of Wisconsin voters. Did the majority of Wisconsin voters not vote for Walker--As your president says" I won" --so did Walker. And, the voters knew what he stood for --the majority of them that is. And is it not interesting that of all the town is Wisconsin Madison --a Left Socialist stronghold" happens to be the center of it all. The there is the FACT that the Democrat minority skips town. That is foolish and Un-American. When Republicans were in a Minority still during the lame duck session when Obama and his Socialist gang passed Obama Care and other garbage, Republicans did not run away.
Debating and making your position known, denouncing things you disagree with trying to win the debate over time is the American way. But, Your Party--The Democrat Socialist Party does not play by these rules and its starts from the very top. That is with Obama. Once he put his foot in this conflict, he no loger is the actual President of the United States. he is the leader of the Democrat Socialist Party and all of their interest groups the Government Unions being one of them.
Oh yes this is a fight for political power all right. But more to the point from perspective the the survival of the country. The conflict playing out in Wisconsin is a microcosm of what is and will happen nation wide.
The teacher's union in Wisconsin is very close being our " Greece". In the 2010 elections the vast majority of American Voters nation wide spoke their minds. They reject Socialist, the Obama Care and whole Left agenda.
This conflict is a direct extention of that election as well as being a consequence of it.
Obama, has refused to acknowledge the outcome of that election. He is arrogant and has doulbed down on his own agenda. he wants to kill our economy. and our country. Appparently slo do you.
I have a simple solution for you and your ilk. Go to Europe. I will be in 2012 their will be a major blow out against side. Gaurenteed As especially if Obama and his gang continue to deny recognition of the economic calamity that awaits us. So what will happen if Obama and his merry supporters lose. Will run away, will they instigate riots ? What will they do if their political views are rejected? The teachers union and political supports are showing in their behavior--hardly civil--
And in conclusion I would re-iterate that this situation is not Wisconsin. Its rather a small example or part of the larger picture of our economic situation which does require sacrifice from everyone-even workers payed by the tax payer.

sarsfield| 2.20.11 @ 10:12AM

The article is just fine but please. please tell your headline writer that it"s the Democrat Party not the Democratic Party!!!!!!!!

George True| 2.20.11 @ 12:33PM

Agreed. There is nothing democratic about the Democrat party.

Michael L. Hauschild| 2.20.11 @ 8:00PM

Damn you Kaminsky, I actually read all of this.

Vita Men| 2.20.11 @ 10:03PM

Local situations symptomatic of the larger
crisis.

Drop the BOGUS, CFR-Globalist set-up Left/Right paradigms.

America! ---time to get REAL about TREASON!

Retroactive IMPEACHMENT of our last 4
set-up Presidential adminsistrations and their
covert and treasonous agendas.

OPEN, AUDIT and END the illegal, unconstitutional, private FED.

Likewise the 'Church and State seperation'
violating FREEMASONIC, ultra-rich, tax free
foundations, NGO's and think tanks (i.e. actuarial
whorehouses).

The 'Shadow Government'
MUST BE called out and face HUAC meets
NUREMBERG scale prosecution for treason
against the republic and EUGENICS crimes against humanity worldwide.

MASSIVE prosecution of the ALL 'in the know'
directors, agenda implementers, operatives
and sicko-fants.

THERE IS NO OTHER WAY

Reebok | 8.11.11 @ 3:19AM

is good

العاب بنات | 4.11.12 @ 4:57PM

hey moron, public employees have a right to organize only if the state allows them to organize. there is no constitutional right to organize. in addition to you lefty rants now your are a street lawyer? right" vtwi/jarp/yes" and whatever moronic name you use, but the message is always the same

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