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Another Perspective
Why Are Our Soldiers Dying?
The proposed hanging of an Afghan Christian makes one wonder what they are fighting for.
I still, just, support the war in Afghanistan. I still regard the probable consequences of withdrawal in defeat by the Western powers as highly undesirable. I even believe that, for troops in proper strength and with proper equipment, the difficulties of campaigning there can be overrated.
As Kipling put it in the 19th century, a raw British regiment, after suffering an ignominious retreat, returned to discover that “an Afghan being attacked is much less formidable than an Afghan attacking.”
But I wish our governments would make some more efforts to explain why we are there, why we are supporting the present regime, and where we are hoping to go in terms of strategic objectives.
It has recently been reported from Afghanistan that a one-legged Afghan Red Cross worker and physiotherapist, Said Musa, 45, is shortly to be hanged by the government, or what passes for the government, for having converted to Christianity.
No defense lawyer will represent him. Some were reported to have dropped the case after receiving death threats. He has been held for about eight months in Kabul prison and reportedly tortured.
He was arrested last May while trying to find sanctuary in the German Embassy following renewed waves of persecution of Christians. He is said to have been offered a reprieve if he denied Christianity but has refused to do this. All this has been known in the West for some time.
The case raises several points. First, where are the protests from that oft-referred-to force, the moderate Muslims? In a fairly long search of the Internet, I have seen no evidence of activity from them on this matter. Yet even from mere considerations of Realpolitik and for the sake of their image before the rest of the world, one would think that they would make some protest.
Second, where are the protests from secular humanists? Again, I have searched and found none. Where are the marchers who turned out for the Viet Cong and more recently for Hamas in innumerable Western capitals?
Third, where are the protests from the major Christian church leaders? The likes of the caprine Archbishop of Canterbury, for example, or the World Council of Churches, generally more than ready to jump on any trendy political bandwagon? I am not suggesting protests by them would have any effect on the Afghan government, but the bigger churches are in a strong position to put pressure on Western governments if they care to.
The Pope did make a protest in careful and diplomatic language to the government of Egypt just before the present upheavals began there about the murder and persecution of Copts, asking for the protection of religious minorities. The Egyptian government’s response was to break off diplomatic relations with the Vatican and a group of Egyptian Muslim theologians broke off scheduled talks with Vatican theologians. Futile as it was, the Pope’s action suggested the Vatican had some understanding of the word “honor.” Compare the indifference that Western governments have shown in the Said Musa case with the exertions by the British and/or Scottish governments to have the Lockerbie mass-murderer freed.
The Said Musa case has drawn some protests from some evangelical Christian groups. One group has published an extremely moving and courageous letter from Said Musa on the Internet. Yet for the most part the matter has been observed, like innumerable other recent cases of the persecution of Christians, with reactions ranging from rabbit-in-the-headlights paralysis to indifference. Western governments could not only protest but offer Said Musa and other persecuted Afghan Christians and other non-Muslims sanctuary. Heaven knows, there are too few of them left alive now to affect the demography of any host country.
Another question which this matter presses home to us is: What are we doing allying in war with these barbarians? What evidence have they given us that they are actually a better government than the Taliban would be? How does propping them up as a government in Afghanistan, even if we win the war there, benefit us or humanity? I believe it does, but please remind me why. It is true that we may be stopping the Taliban from taking over Pakistan and getting their hands on Pakistan’s nuclear weapons, but are there other ways of achieving that?
Personally, I am not a pacifist. I supported the war in Vietnam when doing so was a lonely business. I believe that for Australia the American alliance must be the cornerstone of our foreign policy and it must be supported with deeds as well as words. In brief, I have supported the commitment of Western troops to Afghanistan up till now.
I also know we must at times ally with odious regimes, as we did in World War II. But that is a matter of occasional and deplorable necessity. In World War II the democracies allied with the Soviet Union because their survival, and that of civilization, were at stake. In Vietnam we were defending what was, despite its faults, a civilization within our common understanding of the term.
The Said Musa case is one of those landmark beacons which throws a glaring light on where we are and what we are doing.
It is hard to see any need at the present time to spend our soldiers’ lives in defense of a regime that stinks to high heaven of vile savagery, a regime which plainly cares nothing for our values and plainly cares nothing even for what we think of it, and which in fact shows by its deeds that it regards the Judeo-Christian West and its ideas and values as abomination and a mortal enemy.
About the Author
Hal G.P. Colebatch’s “Immram,” Counterstrike, is being published by Australian publisher Imaginites.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (111) | Leave a comment
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PJ| 2.11.11 @ 7:10AM
I am not an Evangelical. But, God bless them for loudly speaking up for the rights of the persecuted Christians.
I would like to think that the Catholic Church has an ally in Evangelicals, & hopefully they are working together to combat the persecutions. The secular governments are surely not doing anything.
Ryan| 2.11.11 @ 8:32AM
It's my understanding that there aren't a whole lot of denominational issues among Christians on the mission field - a real sense of brotherhood and working together there.
Alan Brooks| 2.11.11 @ 9:47AM
"Where are the marchers who turned out for the Viet Cong?"
What of the American boys who were drafted and sent to Vietnam to be killed and injured 1965- '72?
their fates were worse than hanging; plus draft-recalcitrants weren't offered reprieves if they converted to jingoism.
Search your soul, Hal G.P. Colebatch.
Dustoff| 2.11.11 @ 9:58AM
So Adam..
Ever go there, meet the people?
Alan Brooks| 2.11.11 @ 2:31PM
No, if you want, you can go to places like that and take some bullets meant for someone else.
Mike W| 2.11.11 @ 4:29PM
"their fates were worse than hanging" ??? Considering that 55,000 died out of approximately 3 million serving in Vietnam, I would say that going to Nam was better than hanging.
I'm not saying it was a worthwhile war but that comment is just plain silly.
George| 2.11.11 @ 8:41PM
How do you convert to jingoism? You are incoherent
Alan Brooks| 2.12.11 @ 12:59AM
"How do you convert to jingoism?"
Boys were drafted to go to 'Nam. Now that was a long time ago and we can't hold today's America culpable for the war LBJ radically escalated starting 46 years ago. But America interfered in a civil war in Asia and botched it. Muhammad Ali resisted the draft because he was no jingoist, no one could force him to be one-- esp. in such a losing cause as Vietnam. Ali is merely one example.
Jingoism was drafting millions of Americans for a hopeless war thousands of miles away, and expecting the conscripted youths to be enthusiastic nationalists (not patriots). And you don't think being hung is better than being shot or blown up in combat? even if was 'only' 55,000 troops. Forget about what I think, though; by your reckoning, when you interfere in a civil war thousands of miles away, you'd better damn well win-- and soon!
George| 2.12.11 @ 2:49PM
Brooks, in addition to being incoherent, you have a selective view of history.
The war was started byJFK, patron saint of the liberals like you. It was escalated by LBJ, another liberal darling. Nixon, the evil Republican, had withdrawn all our troops, and essentially save South Vietnam. Your Democrat Congress, more liberals. cut off all aid in 1974-1975, after Nixon resigned. That led to the North Vietnam invasion in 1975, and they won, and then that led to the killing fields of Cambodia.
If you think that was a civil war, then you are deluded, in addition to being incoherent.
I agree JFK should not have involved us, and LBJ should not have escalated to 700,000. You seem to have more sympathy for the draft dodgers, or as you call them draft recalcitrants, were you a draft dodger, you sound like one, praising Ali.
Albert| 2.13.11 @ 2:16AM
You are a stupid, ignorant liar. The war in Vietnam started because the Communist north attacked the south - the fact the people of the south loathed their communist conquerers is witnesses by the hundreds of thousands who fled in leaky boats. The Western defence of South Vietnbam was a noble crusade.
Doc| 3.10.11 @ 3:09PM
Brooks you odious little troll, answer the question he's asking and if unable to do so at least contribute something meaningful to the conversation, your liberal crap is passe incase you haven't heard.
You damn'd Wretch
All American American| 2.11.11 @ 7:42AM
Uhh, some of us have been asking this for a long, long time now. Unfortunately on these and other "conservative" pages, if you dare to pose questions such as the one you raised you are labeled a "liberal" or worse.
I'll keep posting it until my dying days, but maybe we are finally getting it on islam? This is what islam is. There is no negotiating with it, secularizing it, or allying with it. Islam truly needs to be eradicated and we need to stop pretending muslims are anything like we are in the West.
CB| 2.11.11 @ 9:44AM
Amen! Brief, precise, and to the point....and the truth.
Thank you, All American.
Alan Brooks| 2.11.11 @ 9:52AM
Islam truly needs to be eradicated"
As the confederacy needed to be eradicated 1861- '65?
"Oh but that is different", you will answer. It's always different if one's ox is being gored. If Islam is evil, wasn't the Confederacy also evil?
And if God was on the Confederacy's side, then why did the Confederacy lose the war?: because God made a mistake?
Doc| 3.10.11 @ 3:22PM
Brooks you truly are an idiot, what does it take for you libretards to realize the world is not how your percieve it to be.... you obviously need a reality check, why don't you zip on over to happy muslim land and spout your left wing garbage and see how far it get you..
Odious troll...
John Carnal| 2.11.11 @ 11:56AM
Islam is the enemy. Case closed. Pretending it is anything other than the enemy dilutes our chances of saving ourselves from its success. Once Muslims in American begin and end every call to prayers with the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America I'll quit calling for them to please leave or convert to something other than Islam. Don't fool yourself. Islam is the enemy.
Pelligrino| 2.11.11 @ 12:56PM
Yes, precisely AA American and John.
If we ever aim to save a country like Iraq or Afghanistan again (and I believe that there are certainly lives and people there would we should aid), then it MUST be with the precondition that there will be no Islam at all in the equation.
It will always fail -- as it is now in both countries -- not for lack of some very meritorious efforts but because Islam in its varioius strains is permitted to exist.
There is no Islamic country on the planet that is successful. None.
Those who practice Islam in North America need to be processed for deportment. (no new arrivals either)
Alan Brooks| 2.11.11 @ 2:34PM
"Those who practice Islam in North America need to be processed for deportment."
Even if they are a sect of harmless Sufis? reading your comment makes me realize why islamics don't like America: there are too many headstrong jingoists such as you here.
chuck| 2.11.11 @ 8:52PM
"reading your comment makes me realize why islamics don't like America"
If they don't like America, can they please leave?
Alan Brooks| 2.12.11 @ 1:12AM
IMO you are exaggerating. Outside America you might be correct, a large percentage of Islamics don't like America- they do not hate America, but for various reasons they don't like the US
(or at least they certainly don't like what our govt does overseas)
- a mixture of right & wrong reasons. One on-target reason is we only care about the petroleum in the Mideast and they know it, they are not stupid.
but in this country, most Islamics are interested in commerce, and they do commerce almost as well as Mormons do.
I'm biased towards Islamics in America because they are courteous; while right-wing Christians (one example being Campus Crusade For Christ) are too aggressive in their witnessing.
Doc| 3.10.11 @ 3:27PM
Why don't you tell that to the Families of the murdered at Fort Hood you piece of excretement... I truly detest your kind, happy to live in the security provided by decent honorable men and women who have served this country, obsequiously licking the boots of a facist cult, prostrating your worthless pathetic snivelling wretched PC indoctrinated mind on the altar of appeasment...
Emigrate please, Chavez, Gadfly and others of their ilk will welcome you with open arms.
Claypoole| 2.12.11 @ 8:48AM
I agree with Mark Steyn when he writes (I paraphrase): What do the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny and Santa Claus have in common with moderate Muslims? Answer: None of them exist.
Christians in Egypt should have bags packed and be ready to run the moment the lunatic mullahs take over.
loulou| 2.11.11 @ 11:48AM
Ditto and thank you.
Patrick| 2.11.11 @ 4:00PM
There are three scenarios for peace with Islam:
1. Dhimmitude. Enjoy the life of an abused slave, just like the rich liberals wish they could be so that they wouldn't feel so gosh darned guilty about being rich liberals.
2. Divine intervention as not seen since the Milvian Bridge. Not even a repeat of Lepanto will suffice, as our Christian heritage is so thoroughly gutted, and our morality so completely dissipated, that we neither the stomach nor the nerves to enact a much larger version of the Reconquista of the Spanish Peninsula.
3. Barbarism. Simply put, there was a reason why Rome reigned supreme. They were the most capable at killing, and the most brutal at doing so. I certainly doubt that there would be any support for some of the policies that Julius Caesar utilized when subjugating England. One town was believed to have been responsible for killing some of his men, so he took it by force, cut both hands of the surviving men so as to starve to death, and sold the women and children into slavery. Not nice stuff, but effective.
So which one is it?
Manny the Iberian| 2.12.11 @ 10:29AM
I am hoping for #2, but #3 will have to come at a distant second.
I am not ruling anything out at this point.
Dixie Pixie| 2.11.11 @ 8:31AM
If the Federal Government will not stand up and support American Values, then what good can come from its actions?
Alan Brooks| 2.11.11 @ 9:55AM
Then the states will have to. "States Rights", to stand up. it is called self-reliance at the state level.
Alrighty?
S.L. Toddard| 2.11.11 @ 1:10PM
Are you being serious, Mr. Brooks? I can't tell. I only ask because I know you hate the South, and thought you hated States Rights.
Alan Brooks| 2.11.11 @ 2:40PM
I like the South, but not the politics there- and the justice system is the worst in N. America outside of Mexico. States Rights WOULD make sense if the states didn't run to the Feds for help.
For instance Arizona may be correct on immigration, but it is wrong on other issues; and AZ goes to the Feds whenever it needs help.
'When we rightwing states need the Fed, then we are federalists; when we don't we are States-Rightists.
Wayne | 2.11.11 @ 3:32PM
You realize that nothing in this post makes any sense right?
Jeamar37| 2.11.11 @ 5:49PM
Please Mr. Brooks: Please enumerate the other "issues" Az. is wrong about. If you believe so much in States' Rights, why shouldn't we in Arizona determine our own policies? To suggest that any state at the present time can ignore the power of the Federal government is ludicrous.
Alan Brooks| 2.13.11 @ 8:29PM
I don't know what the other issues are, in fact I know nothing of any issues. I merely repeat what I have been told by my islamic controllers.
Dixie Pixie| 2.12.11 @ 6:55PM
Gentleman, I think you are missing the authors point.
To further magnify the point, consider the following question.
If the Federal Government can not or will not support American Values, then what does the Federal Government support internationally.
For your amusement, I have composed a possible list.
Feel free to add to it.
1---Taxpayer supported "Janissaries" for the Globalist International Corporations.
2---The result of a continuing conspiracy of lawn gnomes.
3---Foot soldiers for International Socialism.
4---The Federal Government is actually run by squirrels.
5---A billionaires consortium led by George Soros.
6---The Main Stream Media who are controlled by a small group of advertising executives.
7---The Elders of Temple Beth-El on Park Ave, Manhattan, New York.
8---Animatronic forest characters led by Animatronic Lincoln created by the Disney Corporation.
9---A Top Secret self-aware Supercomputer hidden in Cheyenne Mountain.
10--Drug Addled Hippie Academicians
Or there is one far more terrifying thought, The Federal Government has decided that all values are subjective thus unnatural and therefore are not supporting any values at all.
Intelligent Design| 2.11.11 @ 8:37AM
We should leave Iraq and Afghanistan now ... bring all the troops home and save several hundred billions of dollars. Let the Muslims kill each other.
loulou| 2.11.11 @ 11:49AM
Once they get rid of all non Muslims they will turn on each other. This is what Muslims do.
John Navratil| 2.11.11 @ 12:12PM
Are you ready to re-fight the battle of Tours? The whole point is for Muslims to get rid of non-Muslims. They will not stop at their border, however.
Tim the Enchanter| 2.11.11 @ 1:45PM
Sounds like J.R.R. Tolkein's description of the Orcs.
skip| 2.11.11 @ 2:16PM
In your analogy who are the weak goblins, who are the ordinary orcs, and who are the strong uruk-hai?
PCC| 2.11.11 @ 8:41AM
Right on, Mr. Colebatch.
Our troops should not be fighting and dying in the AfPak sh*thole nearly 10 years after 9/11.
I wish Mr. Obama would either bring all of our troops, and our allies' troops, home with dispatch, or drop a nuclear bomb on the Taliban & Al Qaida strongholds. It's the only language they understand.
Occam's Tool| 2.11.11 @ 10:56AM
Indeed. Gamma rays are good. I'm not a big fan of attempting to democratize scumbags; offer them your way or the grave.
Bob K.| 2.11.11 @ 9:01AM
Our "adventure" in Afghanistan brings to mind Bismarck's comment on the Balkans: "The whole of the Balkans is not worth the bones of single Pomeranian grenadier." The same thing can be said about Afghanistan. It is not worth the life of one PFC from a Pennsylvania (or Texas, et al) National Guard Division. Not to mention that of a Marine Lance Corporal.
Doc| 3.10.11 @ 3:32PM
Not even of a gay Air Man at that, and that is pretty low...
John Navratil| 2.11.11 @ 9:19AM
If our blood and treasure is being squandered, I agree. On the other hand, I'd rather kill the Taliban over there than over here and certainly would hate to see another 9/11. The difficulty is in predicting what sort of future is in store for US when we withdraw. I suspect we will find out soon.
Occam's Tool| 2.11.11 @ 10:57AM
Withdrawal should be accompanied by fused glass.
John Navratil| 2.11.11 @ 11:57AM
That would do it.
George Will once wrote that wars persist until one side gets tired enough to sue for peace. I've said for years that there will not be a peace until there are a lot of dead Islamists. Unfortunately, we seem to be the ones getting tired. The effect is, I'm afraid, that we WILL be fighting this for a long time to come. "Where" is the question?
Intelligent Design| 2.11.11 @ 1:44PM
We are not protecting our own border with Mexico. While our troops fight and die in Afghanistan and Iraq, we have allowed millions of illegal immigrants to infiltrate the U.S.. Of those millions, I feel certain than a thousand or more are terrorists who are quietly planning another 9/11 (or worse) here in the U.S. We should bring all the troops home from "over there" and put about 25,000 of them on the Mexican border.
John Navratil| 2.11.11 @ 2:27PM
I.D.,
I subscribe to the maxim that the best defence is a good offence? I'm with you that the southern border is not secure. Neither is the northern one - the LAX bomber was using that one. For that matter, Abdulmutallab and the Times Square bombers demonstrated quite well that NO border is sufficiently secure. Where should this defence best be mounted? I'm sure the DHS strikes fear in the hearts of the terrorist.
PCC| 2.11.11 @ 8:13PM
We're living through "another 9/11" right now, it's just slow-rolling and confined to our brave fighting men and women, and their families. Thousands dead, tens of thousands wounded, trillions of dollars spent, no end in sight.
As Bruce Springsteen lamented, "They're still there, he's all gone."
Let's end it now, preferably with a big bang.
John Navratil| 2.11.11 @ 11:10PM
If we don't end it with a big bang, it won't end.
David W| 2.11.11 @ 9:28AM
I wonder where our President is (I know he has been getting a tongue lashing from the Saudi King for his treatment of Mubarak. Maybe Obama was sent to his time-out chair by his masters)?
He doesn't support the Iranian protestors who are against a Muslim dictatorship. He supports protestors (some islamists) against a secular dictatorship (his adminstration is soft-selling the Muslim Brotherhood no less). He says nothing about a soon-to-be Christian martyr.
His actions and inactions continue to demonstrate his love for the non-Christian lifestyle. Maybe outside forces can delay Mr. Musa's murder long enough so that when Obama's re-election campaign begins (oh wait, hasn't it already) Obama will "demonstrate" his Christian beliefs and actually do the right thing for a change.
Ole_Sarge| 2.11.11 @ 11:04AM
PBO, may claim to be Christian, but can his actions condemn him for it?
No, he's more the stealthy thief that sneaks in the banquet and joins the host and guests at the table, then slips away to rob or worse.
Patrick| 2.11.11 @ 3:36PM
You must be joking. The only demonstration of his Christian beliefs will be to quote Matthew 25:31-46, followed shortly by ignoring the legal status of Obamacare. What one and the other have to do with each other, only Democrats seem to know.
Pelligrino| 2.11.11 @ 9:36AM
You are perfectly right to question much & all in Afghanistan.
Does anyone recall why we (first with Special Forces) were already in Afghanistan just three short weeks after 9/11? And the full rolling takeover mostly completed by first week of November 2001.
If the Afghans weren't then all by themselves morally, physically, and with infrastructure cabaple of keeping the vipers of the Taliban and al Qaida out....
What brainiacs think they've gained significantly under coalition tutelage in the past decade?
There's nothing and no one in that land that has the fiber to stand up against the Taliban let alone the Narco traffickers, human traffickers, and opium growers.
(some might have made the 'transition' but they are still not even 25 - 30 years old yet)
If we believe the need to invade the Iraqs, Afghanistans (and please add Iran to this list) of this world, then guess what? If you invade it, you own it. ALL of it.
And you have to LEAD & MANAGE all of it, every step of the way.
And you'd better be prepared to be there for 30 years while the older indigenous generations DIE out.
This only really works when the 5 - 12 year old adolescents present in Kabul in fall 2001 (raised completely under 'new' conditions with Western ideas of liberties, education for all, free speech, free press, free assembly....) are 30 years later the ones FINALLY capable of assuming the LEADERSHIP roles.
Do we understand now? You cannot invade today and expect some nice looking, nice sounding, 'reasonable' man in his 40's to be the leader and fill his cabinet posts with similar colleagues.
There need to be nothing but Americans, Brits, Canadians, Germans, Aussies and Dutch running the Afghan country.
If the press and EU liberals cry, "You invaded it for oil! (or whatever) who cares? So what?
And at every leader postion the Western leader/manager has a indigenous "shadow" that is nearly 15-18 years his junior. And we give every academic and mentoring opportunity to these "stars of the future" vigorously weeding out those who don't make the grade.
If they show merit, strength of character, solid Western language skills, core values in synch with the best countries of the world.....then they have a shot at the reigns of the country 2 decades from now.
Call it resolute, firm, unbending, altruistic colonialism of the 21st century, but anything less does not fulfill the mission.
With Pakistan on its long eastern border, Afghanistan will be nearly what it was in 2001 just 12-18 months after coalition troops (and all the aid agencies that won't feel secure) depart.
And...please....NEVER inclusion of Islam in the 'new' nation's constitution. (as in Afghanistan -- folly in the extreme)
Worst places on the globe for a Chrisitian to be: In a country recently invaded by the US. Doubt this? Look at plights and large exodus of Iraqi Christians and their very recently bombed and arsoned churches (with people inside).
William Z| 2.11.11 @ 10:03AM
The killing of Coptic Christians in Egypt was a matter of routine during the 1990s and the Christian population in the Holy Lands has been steadily decreased for decades. You mentioned Iraq, but it was during the 1990s that the exodus began, after the invasion Kuwait. Iran Islamic government has been abusing its Christian population since the Islamic revolution and is now arresting many as ‘risks’ to the Islamic state. No, there’s always been the abuse and murder of Christians those parts of the world. It’s only now that Americans are taking notice.
loulou| 2.11.11 @ 11:51AM
Furthermore, Lebanon used to be 52% Christian. Not any more.
John Navratil| 2.11.11 @ 12:13PM
loulou,
And before Islam, Egypt was a Christian nation.
Occam's Tool| 2.11.11 @ 10:57AM
Excellent comments, as usual, P.
Mike W| 2.11.11 @ 4:24PM
The US invasion of Iraq was a horrible tragedy for many, but especially the Christian population.
Harry the Horrible| 2.11.11 @ 9:41AM
We need scrap this "democracy" stuff in Afghanistan. Murderous illiterate tribesmen can't run a Democracy or Republic.
We need to pick a tribe, help it wipe its enemies, cow its rivals, gorge them loot, then let 'em know that EVERYBODY now hates them, and they're not going to survive a day if we withdraw our favor... And that we'll withdraw it instantly if Al Qaeda or the Taliban gets a foothold in Afghanistan again.
Occam's Tool| 2.11.11 @ 10:59AM
Don't forget the fused glass---an example must be made that we will kill mercilessly and indiscriminately in defense of our interests. This will silence comments about being "effete" and "decadent."
Ole_Sarge| 2.11.11 @ 11:08AM
Won't happen, PBO is not the strong horseman, the horses run wild without a rider to control them. Our enemies know this, and know that without a strong leader we are not a strong people...
And "they" that dare to attack us have been wrong before; waken our ire and anger and they will see... as will those that claim to be our leaders and rulers.
Patrick| 2.11.11 @ 3:41PM
I'm not terribly partial to the fused-glass idea, as it means our reserves of fused-glass fabrication components have been depleted.
Occam's Tool| 2.11.11 @ 6:23PM
Only depleted by a tiny wafer thin mint...
Walkthetalk| 2.11.11 @ 10:57AM
Currently Europe has very few Christians, the Chinese Christians are in hiding, the Korean and Ugandan Christians have been co-opted by the health/wealth movement, the Philippine church is a formality, Christians south of the US border are scarce, the American Christians have been so focused on the family circle that the greater picture has been lost, and the world involvement has been largely deleted. The problem with American Christians is that they have been lulled to sleep. Christians have had their churches systematically attacked in other countries for decades, but the American media has not reported any. American Christians should have had their own media, but they relied on the secular outlets. For decades the leftist/Progressive/Socialist/Communists have made subtle incursions on society taking over schools, the media, churches, organizations, and government, to the point that American Christians have been marginalized, along with their opinions and preferences. It is the American Christian’s own fault. They have been remiss in their vigilance, and derelict in their duty.
Christians have let the Leftists rule; have let the evil empire hold sway over the world. They have relied on politicians to do their work; trusting presidents and senators who called themselves Christian. Congress talks conservative when running for office but acts like the devil in Washington. The Presidents after Reagan have all been like one man with different accents. They have done nothing for Christians, and provided lip-service for freedom. Under Bush the US Army let the Muslim population attack the Iraqi Christians with impunity. The Iraqi Christians numbering 1.5 million who weren’t killed had to flee to Syria because the so-called Christian President did nothing. What’s more the US didn’t let many of them immigrate because it was too busy letting scofflaws enter the country to do work Americans wouldn’t do.
Christians are the only ones in this world who can see the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, evil and righteousness. They have this ability because it is a product of their spirit. When one of the spiritually dead repents (turns to Jesus) God’s Spirit gives him life, and with that his eyes are opened, his brain is cleared to process the things of God, his ears are cleared up so he can hear the truth, his feet are unshackled to walk in the way of life, his hands are trained for war. Yes, war. This is a spiritual war. He is to battle evil. But the American Christian has let his guard down, let others take his spiritual armor away (leftist Christian theology), and has become a spiritual wimp.
In 1683 the Ottoman Empire attacked Vienna. The King of Poland joined others and brought his heavy cavalry to the battle where 84,000 Christians of the Holy League faced 150,000 Muslims. On September 12 20,000 cavalry attacked. The Muslims fled in disarray. On 9/12 the battle was won and Europe was saved from the Muslim incursion. This victory in the east coupled with the victory over the Muslims in the west back in 732 by Charles Martel enabled America to exist.
It is time for Christians to join the spiritual battle. Take heart. Armor up! Our King can win the battle against the overwhelming number who have made league with the devil. Yes devil! Jesus said to the spiritually dead, “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” This enemy is not people, but SIN. Yes, THAT much maligned sin. Sin is rebellion against God, a turning away from him. When God is rejected the resulting disconnect from the life in him produces people who have everything turned upside-down. They exchange good for bad, and evil for righteousness. They hate God and everything that comes from him. That certainly includes Christians. Thus persecution is the result. Christians cannot end persecution because they cannot end sin, but they can stand up to evil. Only they can see the difference between good and evil, so only they can help this world ruled by sin. (For more information on the spiritual battle and what is required of Christians read the Bible. As a supplement for your greater edification see www.christforamericans.com Read it, don’t skim it.)
Sin (rebellion against God) dominates this world in which we live. To sin is a choice, and to repent is a choice. Choose Jesus. Then choose to join the spiritual battle. But don’t come unprepared, unarmored, or uninformed. Christians will always be a target of the God-haters, but victory is ours. Our King will see to it.
Randy| 2.11.11 @ 11:26AM
I have a suggestion.... Offer to give him a rifle, 100 rounds of ammo, a canteen, and ship him off to Afghanistan... See how long it takes him to clarify his position.
Sobeyiski| 2.11.11 @ 12:48PM
The position was not obtuse to me.
The greatest danger in Afghanistan for the American soldier is not the bullets of the Taliban, it's the "friendly fire" from fellow Americans (the leftists).
The greatest danger in afghanistan for the Afghani Christian is not the bullets of the Muslims, it's the misfire from the American Christians (they forgot their firing pins).
Petronius| 2.11.11 @ 11:33AM
Wasted words W
Most people in this country will never accept God's Commandments. That's the ultimate cultural ick. What would their friends think? Maybe they will learn when the invasion comes and they all get beheaded.
jolizoom| 2.11.11 @ 10:09PM
Is 55:10-11 10 As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
Petronius, God's word is never wasted. Even if one person takes WTT's message seriously, it will have achieved its purpose.
John| 2.11.11 @ 12:13PM
Congratulations to the Egyptian people for removing an evil tyrant. Congratulation to the Arab nation. Congratulation to the Muslim and Islamic people. Congratulation to those in America who have not wavered in their support of the Egyptian people. Congratulations to all who love freedom. Truly a great day in history and for humanity. God willing saudi Syria etc .. Next.
Jenny| 2.11.11 @ 12:25PM
We need to withdraw from Afghanistan and leave that god-forsaken rock of a country to its crazy inhabitants. The blood of our young men and the treasure of our country is being wasted on the sand and rocks of Afghanistan.
Read "Lone Survivor" to see the quality of men that we are sacrificing over there. They are heroes. Afghanistan is not worth one Lt. Michael Patrick Murphy.
Charles Stevens| 2.11.11 @ 12:51PM
We conservatives cannot decry the intransigence of political Islam on the one hand, and expect the democratization of a country like Afghanistan on the other. This is at best feckless, at worst schizophrenic in the extreme.
Exporting democracy because it is some nice abstract universal concept is a flawed neo-conservative idea a la Bush, all the more so since we now know neo-conservatives are but one step removed from progressives. Neither democracy nor America itself can be sustained as simply an abstract idea… instead they are concrete entities that depend on a specific culture, religion and morality that allows a classically liberal environment of individual freedom and respect for individual expression. Islam will always be a priori at odds with these principles, and therefore true democracy (other than two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner) is impossible.
We should therefore split our policy for Afghanistan in two by doing the same to that country. Make a deal with the former Northern Alliance forces. Place them in charge of a new government, and have a permanent military presence in NE Afghanistan including Kabul. If quid-pro-quo persuasion is not sufficient, force them to have a secular government that respects true democratic values with protections for all minority opinions throughout its laws and culture. (This includes starting a new sect of Islam if necessary, one that deletes from its ethos all barbaric aspects of the Koran, Sharia, hadiths, and jihad). Make that one country and call it Afghanistan. Simultaneously ship Karzai and his cronies out to form the other country as leaders of a Pushtunistan, and let them do whatever, with the understanding that we will bomb the hell out of them, their poppy fields, and northern Pakistan wherever and whenever they presume to get militarily stronger than a few AK-47′s.
The present policies of Bush-cum-Obama are unsustainable. Either come back to reality with a logically cohesive approach, or else get out entirely.
Joe Oliva| 2.11.11 @ 4:20PM
Forget all that, dump the SOB's and leave. Also, we should close most of the military bases we have around the world and develop more Star Wars ABM's.
S.L. Toddard| 2.11.11 @ 12:53PM
"The people of a free nation cherish peace and peaceful pursuits and ordinarily have no designs on other nations. They do not wish to acquire the lands of other peoples or impose their rule on them. Least of all do they want to pursue costly adventures in foreign lands that will load themselves up with debt and taxes. Peaceful pursuits lead to happiness and prosperity, whereas wars and conquests only burden the people with misery."
- Thomas Jefferson
John Navratil| 2.11.11 @ 2:41PM
S.L. Toddard,
There is quite a difference between an agrarian society separated by two oceans when it took weeks to cross them and the world's dominant power in the jet age.
Also, Jefferson was speaking of hegemony, not defence. We are not attempting to conquer these lands. As to debt and taxes... I would prefer them to another 9/11 as, I suspect, each of the 3000 who died that day would.
You might also recall that Jefferson sent frigates to Tripoli in defence of American interests and to attack Barbary pirates as is immortalized in the Marines' Hymn.
I do not think your quote is apropos.
Pelligrino| 2.12.11 @ 12:52AM
Mr. John Navratil, correct. Thank you. Mr. Jefferson was one surely smart guy (genius) along with colleagues like Madison, Franklin, Jay, Hancock, and Henry.
But they couldn't have foreseen Boeing jets that routinely fly 380 tourists, relatives, and business people per plane on a $1,100 ticket to Singapore in just a little over the time it takes to get a good night's rest.
Everyone: Please look at how we are communicating with one another right now. You might be using a Gateway, Dell, or HP as you read and type a thread response, but the device you were using is comprised of components not made or assembled here, rather finished and packaged in not-so-distant anymore Asian factories.
You get these electronics and much of your Wal-Mart, Best Buy, K-Mart, and Target, merchandise at good prices because the world's shipping lanes are mostly -- still -- passable and trouble free.
(But just look at what trouble a bunch of low-level pirates off Somalia can create?)
We're communicating with each other -- right now -- on a network known as the internet with data routings all over the globe.
What, you don't think that the Chinese right now have the capability to achieve some major successes on us, the Europeans, the Russians or anyone with cyber warfare measures?
The Wikileaks acolytes achieved net disruptions against banking and credit card companies like Visa just a few weeks ago. And they're amateurs.
If I want to wreck some havoc on you and your life, I just need to open shop in Russia today and hire the most talented cyber professionals that money can buy.
Want to talk your life, lifestyle and the conveniences you enjoy with uninterrupted, reliable satellite communications occurring 24/7?
Today's vacant lot in Yemen, Kenya, Pakistan or on an island in the Philippines is tomorrow's state-of-the-art Saudi funded world-class jihad terrorist training facility ready to serve as a platform for launching mayhem near you.
America's Founding Fathers were indeed geniuses.
But they could not have known that we'd be so interconnected on a rapidly shrinking planet.
They would understand that preserving America's freedoms, strengths, and prosperity requires incredible and innovative efforts today. And that -- for best effectiveness -- many of those efforts & resources MUST be in concert with allies away from our own shores.
There is no option to back away from global concerns any more than the option exists within your state to ignore mafia activity, drug gangs, cocaine sales, illegal weapons sales, mosque building, and terrorist training.
justplainbill| 2.11.11 @ 1:05PM
"Moderate Muslim" is an oxymoron.
John| 2.11.11 @ 4:54PM
No . I think you mean its a tautology.
John Navratil| 2.11.11 @ 11:18PM
Right!! Khomenei was a moderate. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was a moderate. Ayman al-Zawahiri is a moderate. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a moderate.
Take your 'tautology' and the dictionary you read and put them both where it will do you the most good.
skip| 2.15.11 @ 7:59PM
John is unintelligent and dishonest is a tautology.
GENE HAUBER| 2.11.11 @ 1:34PM
i think brooks took his ball and went home, what a putz.
Tim the Enchanter| 2.11.11 @ 1:54PM
Didn't know he had one, let alone two.
skip| 2.11.11 @ 2:12PM
Sir,
This is mighty trivial but thank you for posting with the caps lock off.
Occam's Tool| 2.11.11 @ 6:23PM
Tim The Enchanter is not Tim*/Clint.
Clint| 2.12.11 @ 12:10AM
Tool Job Is Fixated Israel Firster.
skip| 2.12.11 @ 4:07PM
OT,
Your posts have consistently displayed intelligence and honesty over time. Kudos.
You seem to have a chink in your armor re Tim* and Clint though. At least as often as you, Tim* and Clint have expressed opinions with intelligence and honesty and have backed them up with references.
The primary topic for this seems to be Israel. On domestic policies there seems to be no significant disagreement. U.S. foreign policy issues concerning Israel is another matter. Most U.S. domestic policy is unconstitutional, while most U.S. foreign policy is constitutional under 'provide for the common defence' authority, or is at least justifiably debatable. The Tim* and Clint argument against Israeli support has the objective point Israel has harmed U.S. intelligence and military concerns in the past, and has the subjective point some of these actions involved his own loved ones. These points could be intelligently and honestly discussed so readers could determine the most intelligent and honest U.S. policies regarding Israel with more facts and viewpoints.
You seem to think Tim* and Clint anti-semitic; in the past I requested proof from anyone with relevant quotations and dates/times of posts, but I received none, with the exception of a single reference either misunderstood or taken out of context by Margie. I believe Tim* and Clint is on the same side. Isn't it time to either provide evidence or bury the hatchet?
Patrick| 2.11.11 @ 3:46PM
It was time for his thorazine.
Wayne | 2.11.11 @ 2:51PM
I am willing to bet it has nothing to do with catching Bin Laden.
Jeamar37| 2.11.11 @ 5:44PM
1. There are no moderate muslims. Their doctrine only recognizes Islam. All others shall be converted at the point of a sword.
2.Secular Humanists tolerate ALL religions because that is what heirs of the Enlightenment do. But they do take a stand against Christianity.
3. The World Council of Churches at its conference coming in may will not discuss Christian doctrine this year. Their concerns are climate change and (I forget what the second on is.). This they can supposedly influence.
So why are we in Afghanistan, Iraq and still all over the world? Because we refuse to face reality.
John| 2.11.11 @ 9:14PM
Jeamar38
did you miss you're KKK meeting today.
After 15 centuries of Islam in the ME There are still 10s millions of Arab christians. I bet you find that confusing. It was the establishment of the state of isreal that caused the largest ethnic cleansing of Arab christains from historic Palestine. You know to create Jewish only state in Palestine. Churches are being destroyed in very large numbers in isreal. now let me see what the good christains of Germany did to the poor jews gypsies- remember the holocoast thing.
Go and bury your racist KKK head into the ground you complete moronic imbecile.
Comenius| 2.12.11 @ 10:01AM
So You're saying Adolph and the Nazis were good Christians? The "good" Christians in Germany were killed or imprisoned too. You know, like Bonhoeffer, et. al. Also, The Bible doesn't tell Christians to kill others. In fact, It tells them to turn the other cheek. On the other hand, the Quran DOES tell its adherents to kill and subjugate non-muslims. Christians are by definition, "good" or "not good" based on how closely their lives match their Holy Book. Ditto the muslims.
John| 2.12.11 @ 12:57PM
So let me get this right. it was hitler and a few of his mates that did the holocaust. And the good Christian people of Germany were just innocent bystanders in all this. Its seem that these good christain people have been innocent bystanders on lots of crimes in the last two millennia (NOT). stop smoking the pot and wake up.
Comenius| 2.12.11 @ 1:38PM
Im saying that people who participated in the holocaust were, by definition, NOT Christians. Why can't you grasp this? You sound like a lefty. Of course, nobody kills like the communists. An problems with that?
John| 2.12.11 @ 4:08PM
According to the Quran those who take one life it is like they killed the whole humanity- the saving of one life it is like you have saved the whole of humanity. In Islam any one harming an innocent person is excommunicated from the faith. so all those black sheep in the Muslim family have no justification for their actions. But you chose to make these black sheep as representative of Muslims but refer to bad Christians as an exception.
Comenius| 2.12.11 @ 6:50PM
Here's the problem John: you say the equivalent of, "Islam is a religion of peace." Yet, wherever Christians are persecuted for their faith throughout the world, it is almost always at the hands of Muslims. Even in this article, the story of the Said Musa, the most brutal kind of treatment in an intentional, orchestrated way simply because he is Christian in a Muslim country. However, Muslims come to the Western European democracies in Europe and North America, practice their faith without persecution, build mosques wherever they want while Christians in Muslim countries are treated as second-class citizens to the point where even their very lives are threatened. Is it any wonder we don't trust Muslims?
John| 2.12.11 @ 7:30PM
The persecution of minorities anywhere in the world including the Muslim world is damm evil and ugly. Where it happens in the Muslim world this should be raised at the highest level with those countries. Christain and muslims should work together locally and help each other to stamp out discrimination. western occupations in the Islamic world is viewed as a christain occupation -wrongly in my opnion . Arab christains who have been in the forefronr of resisting occupation in ME have been unjustly targeted by fanatics. Muslims are murdered and occupied everywhere. It is these distortions created by occupation which have allowed evil people to take advantage. Muslims and christains together constitute more than half of humanity. I have no doubt there is good will on both sides to overcome any problems.
Doc| 3.10.11 @ 3:47PM
For heavens sake will you put down the koolaid, your naivety is quite embarrassing...
Albert| 2.12.11 @ 9:56AM
"After 15 centuries of Islam in the ME There are still 10s millions of Arab christians."- Yeah, sure thing. Only trouble is, they're underground. I think you've got your turban too tight.
John| 2.12.11 @ 7:46PM
Actually there are many prominent Arab Christians in ME. for example the Palestinian struggle would be nowhere if it wasn't for the great sacrifices of Palestinian Christians . All facts are a google click away.
Tony in Central PA| 2.13.11 @ 9:13PM
I've had the pleasure of recently getting to know a Palestinian Christian - - a priest in the Assyrian Church. Despite assertions to the contrary in this thread, things are most definitely not going well these days for Christians in Palestine. I would say from the priest's descriptions, it sounds like defacto religious cleansing has been taking place.
Comenius| 2.12.11 @ 10:12AM
"...a regime that stinks to high heaven of vile savagery"
Beutifully put. How else can you describe a country that persecutes and murders innocent people like Said Musa for nothing more than being a Christian?
Dixie Pixie| 2.12.11 @ 9:54PM
Gentleman, I think you are missing the authors point.
To further magnify the point, consider the following question.
If the Federal Government can not or will not support American Values, then what does the Federal Government support internationally.
For your amusement, I have composed a possible list.
Feel free to add to it.
1---Taxpayer supported "Janissaries" for the Globalist International Corporations.
2---The result of a continuing conspiracy of lawn gnomes.
3---Foot soldiers for International Socialism.
4---The Federal Government is actually run by squirrels.
5---A billionaires consortium led by George Soros.
6---The Main Stream Media who are controlled by a small group of advertising executives.
7---The Elders of Temple Beth-El on Park Ave, Manhattan, New York.
8---Animatronic forest characters led by Animatronic Lincoln created by the Disney Corporation.
9---A Top Secret self-aware Supercomputer hidden in Cheyenne Mountain.
10--Drug Addled Hippie Academicians
Or there is one far more terrifying thought, The Federal Government has decided that all values are subjective thus unnatural and therefore are not supporting any values at all.
Albert| 2.13.11 @ 2:35AM
Unfortunately, I think nearly all these comments have missed the author's point. The point is: What can WE do to save Said Musa's one life NOW? I suggest everyone petition the White House and/ orHillary Clinton demanding he be spared, and that US military aid be used as a bargaining lever.
MightyMighty | 2.14.11 @ 1:41AM
This comment displays a profound anti-Catholicism, especially given that the Church did exactly the best she could, as a non-military state: The Pope did make a protest in careful and diplomatic language to the government of Egypt just before the present upheavals began there about the murder and persecution of Copts, asking for the protection of religious minorities. The Egyptian government's response was to break off diplomatic relations with the Vatican and a group of Egyptian Muslim theologians broke off scheduled talks with Vatican theologians. Futile as it was, the Pope's action suggested the Vatican had some understanding of the word "honor."
"Some understanding of the word "honor""? What the heck? Where does the author of this article get off playing holier-than-thou-art against the Catholic Church, which is incidentally the major bulwark courageously defending innocent human life, the sanctity of marriage and sexuality, etc. in the world today?
Further, what is wrong with the Pope's letter being careful and diplomatic? Again, the Vatican is a non-military state. Diplomacy is the best the Pope can do in handling violent fascists.
WeMustResist| 2.14.11 @ 7:45AM
I no longer support the war in Afghanistan. You must chose your battles carefully, and win. What would victory look like? What are our strategic objectives? What are we fighting for? To stop the export of terrorism? Containment (quarantine) would work just as well. To civilise the Afghans? Ha Ha Ha. Overthrowing the Taliban once was good. There is no need to do it every day. We can come back if they are bad outside their borders.
chris haynes| 2.14.11 @ 11:43PM
What's our vaunted military doing with that $100 billion a year? The heroes who train our allies, and who sit by while they murder Christian converts? Here's what: See something? Say nothing!
Yes Sir, don't rock the boat, Sir. Might put your pension in danger, Sir.
Doc| 3.10.11 @ 3:57PM
Pull our boys and girls home.... then when the Taliban return as they surely will use our advanced technology to rain death from above, nothing nicer than knowing that even if they do return that a tomahawk cruise missle will find them and ruin their day... after about 500 I think they will get the message and stay in their caves..
sex toys | 7.4.11 @ 1:14AM
The fact that Trump has come out against the Korea-U.S. trade deal and this week's pulling of a vote on a trade deal in the House by the leadership shows there a very fluid House GOP caucus against the kind of trade deals which benefit only corporate interests and infringe upon U.S. sovereignty
Reebok | 8.11.11 @ 3:51AM
is good
العاب | 4.11.12 @ 4:29PM
Uhh, some of us have been asking this for a long, long time now. Unfortunately on these and other "conservative" pages, if you dare to pose questions such as the one you raised you are labeled a "liberal" or worse.