The American Spectator : A Natural Born Job Killer

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A Natural Born Job Killer

By David Catron on 1.21.11 @ 6:08AM

Obamacare is already adding to the unemployment rolls.

Don't believe the media. Obamacare is already adding to the unemployment rolls.

Commenting on the mainstream media of his day, Thomas Jefferson famously observed that "The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers." Coming from the Sage of Monticello, whose credentials as an advocate of the free press were pretty darned solid, this is an arresting statement. And it is evident that the news business has changed little during the two centuries that have come and gone since he penned that uncivil passage. Even if one ignores the "reporting" perpetrated by the New York Times and other leading lights of journalism in the wake of the Tucson shooting, the continuing relevance of Jefferson's comment can be verified by perusing the stories appearing in most prominent publications about the GOP effort to repeal Obamacare .

The new House majority incurred the wrath of the media by refusing to change the name of the repeal bill and ignoring their calls to "wait a bit longer" before bringing it up for a vote. In fact, the Republicans had the temerity to give the "Repealing the Job-Killing Health Care Law Act" pride of place in their vote schedule. This affront has inspired a spate of "news" stories claiming that the GOP has misled the public concerning Obamacare's effect on unemployment. The Republicans have, according to these articles, misrepresented a CBO report that suggests the new law will eliminate 650,000 jobs. A typical example is an AP "fact check" piece that includes this priceless quote from economist Paul Fronstin: "CBO isn't saying that there is job loss as much as they are saying that fewer people will be working."

The irony of such verbal contortions is that they would be unconvincing even if they were not self-refuting. It isn't necessary to invoke the CBO to demonstrate that Obamacare is a job killer. The ink was hardly dry on the new law when the layoffs began at the small insurance companies. Last year, HealthMarkets announced its plan to eliminate 250 jobs pursuant to "national healthcare reform." Likewise, Principal Financial Group said it would get out of the health insurance business and lay off 1,500 workers due to "the shadow of a lot of regulatory matters." The darkest of these regulatory shadows is Obamacare 's requirement that health carriers spend 80% of premiums on medical care. This mandate will drive many other carriers out of the market as well, and kill the jobs of anyone working in their health divisions.

The job losses have by no means been limited to health insurance companies. The actual providers of health care, including community hospitals, are beginning to eliminate jobs. Memorial Hospital in South Bend, Indiana, has had to cut nearly 50 jobs because Obamacare "has already started to cut reimbursement rates to hospitals across the region and the country and we expect that reality to get worse moving forward." Another small hospital, in Leominster, Massachusetts, will eliminate about 50 positions. The spokesman for that institution said the cuts were made necessary by "health care reform, with its reductions in Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements." Yakima Valley Memorial, in the state of Washington, will also cut 70 to 100 jobs because "Under federal health care reform, Memorial must reduce its expenses."

In addition to the jobs it will destroy in the insurance and hospital industries, Obamacare 's new taxes will kill countless jobs in the medical device industry. The Massachusetts Medical Device Industry Council estimates that about 90 percent of member firms will be forced to "cut back on operational costs -- and jobs -- after [Obamacare 's] 2.3 percent tax on their products is implemented in 2013." And, lest you fall into the error of thinking that "reform" will bring enough new customers to offset the increased tax burden, 42 percent of the affected firms have indicated that Obamacare will not increase their business. The others are no doubt hoping that at least one of the promises made on behalf of Obamacare will actually be fulfilled. Inevitably, however, this addition to their cost of doing business will add to the unemployment rolls.

If you believe that all this carnage will somehow render health care more "efficient," as many progressive policy wonks have claimed, remember that reform-induced job losses will not be limited to the health care industry. As health care economist John Goodman points out, the various mandates imposed by Obamacare will effectively raise the cost of labor across the economy. He estimates that they will add "$2.28 an hour for full time workers (individual coverage) and $5.89 an hour (family coverage) for fulltime employees." Many businesses simply cannot absorb such increases without cutting labor costs. This is why we have heard so many cris de coeur from low-margin employers like White Castle, which says the financial hit "will make it hard for the company to maintain its 421 restaurants, let alone create new jobs."

And the government cannot simply "waiver" this problem away. Thus far, the Obama administration has issued get-out-of-jail-free cards to well over 200 employers and unions that screamed bloody murder when they realized how much devastation Obamacare will wreak on their operations. These waivers don't cure the disease. They merely treat its symptoms. Even worse, they will eventually draw U.S. health care into an increasingly corrupt, Chicago-style political spoils system. Because these waivers are issued at the pleasure of the HHS Secretary, it is inevitable that the companies and unions with the most political power (i.e. those which have made the largest cash donations to the Democrats) will be given special dispensations. Less affluent employers will be forced to save money by cutting their labor costs.

None of the "reporters" peddling the CBO meme have shown any interest in the job losses already caused by Obamacare . They prefer to focus on the wickedness of the Republicans. As Paul Krugman phrases it, "The key to understanding the G.O.P. analysis of health reform is that the party's leaders are not, in fact, opposed to reform because they believe… it will be 'job-killing' (which it won't be). They're against reform because it would cover the uninsured -- and that's something they just don't want to do." This is the sort of dishonesty that prompted Jefferson to augment the above-quoted criticism of the Fourth Estate with the following: "Advertisements contain the only truths to be relied on in a newspaper." Were he with us today, he would no doubt include broadcast media and many Internet outlets in this indictment.

About the Author

David Catron is a health care revenue cycle expert who has spent more than twenty years working for and consulting with hospitals and medical practices. He has an MBA from the University of Georgia and blogs at Health Care BS.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (96) | Leave a comment

MoeBlotz| 1.21.11 @ 6:48AM

The new question my urologist's nurse was required to aks me (Je$$e Jack$on lingo there) before my cystourethroscopy,"Do you feel safe at home?" I feel safe at home due to a variety of reasons,more from attitude than any hardware or weapons on hand. What is the point of such a question and what information will the bureaucraats hope to accumulate?

JP| 1.21.11 @ 7:34AM

It is now common for most Pediatric nurses to ask children during routine visits if thier parents owned any fire arms, how much thier parents drank, if thier parents smoked, if thier parents spanked or "touched" them, etc... In one case I heard a mother complain that the nurses asked her to leave while they examined thier daughter. But the examination was mainly a grilling session, in which they peppered the girl with questions that had nothing to do with her health. When the mother found out about this, she called the clinic and gave them a piece of her mind. The nurse just repsonded that this was a state requirement. Needless to say they found another doctor, and she remains with her children through out the exams. Welcome to the Brave New World.

MoeBlotz| 1.21.11 @ 9:30AM

The question of my safety may have been designed for a juvenile,but the nurse was required to ask an olde phart. I do not see youths in a urologists waiting room. Brave New World? That is an old expression.

Dude | 1.21.11 @ 7:07PM

As a father, I have nothing to hide, and I applaud this type of questioning. Many kids are abused and mis-treated without the ability to speak up and speak out about what happens to them, this is just one chance for them to ask for real help from an abusive or alcoholic parent.

Marshall| 1.21.11 @ 9:07PM

Since you are so concerned about your kids' security, having nothing to hide, we will be showing up tomorrow to install security cameras inside each room in your home. We will be able to monitor them 24-hours a day. This will allow us to tell if your wife, relatives, neighborhood kids, or anyone else is abusing your kids in any way.

daddio| 1.23.11 @ 8:46AM

Sarcastic remark, but how far off it that, really?

Purpleguy| 1.21.11 @ 6:52AM

"CBO isn't saying that there is job loss as much as they are saying that fewer people will be working." - Right - they said with fewer people stuck to the job they have because they need employer provided healthcare, they are more free to retire or find a more satisfying job. It is their choice, and they estimate many will exercise their choice to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. You have a problem with that?

Hmmm, and as far as your other "facts" about job reductions - Have you seen any advertising from the American Hospital Insurance Assn or the Chamber of Commerce or any Insurance company criticizing Obamacare? No, you have not - why not? Because it is the best thing to happen to insurance companies in a long time. The strong will win, the weak will fail, and that's life in a Capitalist Society. Nothing new or terrible there, so stop the obvious spinning.

Appleby| 1.21.11 @ 7:16AM

Google *Dead Last* and MacLeans Magazine and read all about the Canadian Health Care system (as followed only by Cuba and North Korea in addition to us) and see your own society in a couple of years. Or perhaps you believe you will be among the Nomenklatura who jump the queue or go to -- wait, you cant go to the States and pay cash! Where will you go when all your money can buy you is a place on a five year waiting list? India?

JP| 1.21.11 @ 7:40AM

You really haven't a clue how the deck is stacked. And you know perfectly well that this is anything but Capitalism. The only way Obama got the insurance companies to buy in to his scheme was to promise the mandate. The mandate allows insurance firms to collect dues funneled thier way in the short term. It is highly unconstitutional. But, in the long run it doesn't matter. The insurance companies will not be able to price risk. So over time you will see most insurance companies drop health insurance. This will put more and more people on Medicare. And that is how we will get the single payer system most Progressives dream about.

Of course the entire scheme will implode as costs go beyond 20% of the GDP. We simply cannot afford a public health care system. At some point our landlords (the CHICOMs) will stop buying T-Bills, as the dollar will sink to a level that is unsustainable.

MikeD| 1.21.11 @ 8:17AM

Purpleguy;
It's been a while since your unintentional humor has graced these pages. Please don't ever change and actually learn anything; it would remove a great deal of the humor from my early morning!

Any time I begin to waver and actually think there might be some hope for our Country under the most corrupt and evil regime since stalin, you pop up and confirm my fears, thus continually stiffening my resolve to fight against everything barry the muslim and his cretin thugs try to jam down our throats.

The most amazing thing about you and your "ilk" is that you truly, sincerely believe what you say! That's got to be the only explanation because virtually everything the dems/lefties have been trying to impose on our Country through questional legislative tactics and captive judges has been disproven in practice in the real world. Glo-bull warming, abortion, higher taxes, this abominable healthcare travesty, and so much more is simply evil, from killing unborn babies, to the intellectually bankrupt like the manipulated data uncovered that formed the basis of the fraud the political climatologist 'wannabees' tried to jam through until real science proved them wrong.

At least democrats and their true believers might be good for a laugh if their fraudulent philosophy and ideas were not so deadly dangerous.

Purpleguy| 1.21.11 @ 10:15AM

First of all, if you knew anything about science and geology you would know that climate change is real, normal and cyclical on the earth. The only difference now is that man's industry is rushing things up a bit. Don't worry, the earth will be fine. Our industry mimics what natural volcanic activity provides without any help from us. We won't stop climate change, period. If we help to speed it up, so be it.
What our real problem is revolves around the fact that the majority of our energy needs requires fossil fuels, of which there is an end. The earth is not making any more and when it's gone, it's gone. You wanna wait until the lights turn out? If in the process, we slow down climate change by finding alternative, clean enery sources, so much the better - for our water, our air and our livelihoods.
I always find it so hypocritical that all the anti-abortionists want to dictate what can be done with someone else's fetus. Based on what right do you first judge and then pass sentence that because YOU don't think it right, it must be stopped. That's such bs.
You live in a sophisticated civilization with many advantages and comforts - you have to pay for it, and we call that taxes - so pay it and thank your blessings that you can. Greed is not very attractive.
Constantly telling me that you don't like liberal, progressive, or Democratic ideas really does nothing except tell me your exasperated and cannot articulate your point. Don't bother spouting right-wing talking points either - i listen to Fixed News too...

CopyKatnj| 1.21.11 @ 3:10PM

"Greed is not very attractive."

reply - "Politicians never accuse you of 'greed' for wanting other people's money -- only for wanting to keep your own money." --columnist Joe Sobran (1946-2010)

"If in the process, we slow down climate change by finding alternative, clean enery sources, so much the better - for our water, our air and our livelihoods."

reply - "The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it." --American writer H. L. Mencken (1880-1956)

Oldefarte| 1.22.11 @ 12:33PM

And if you knew anything period, you would not be living off of governmental welfare as your are presently. So take your worthless artsy-fartsy science degree and wipe your backside with same!!!!!!!

Purpleguy| 1.22.11 @ 2:24PM

You are sooo clueless ... i'd stack my income against yours any day. 1/2 my pay against yours even ... artsy-fartsy and science don't really go together, but Im not surprised you wouldn't know that ... my old troglodyte friend.

MikeD| 1.22.11 @ 9:27PM

You and I both know that the topic is the abject stupidity of AGW, or "Anthropogenic Global Warming", which has been completely exposed as just another liberal scam to grab more control and $$$ for their efforts. Anybody who puts any stock in AGW is an idiot who thinks the lowly human race is so much more powerful than it is. Mt. Pinatubo ejected more greenhouse gases and particulates into the atmosphere in three weeks in 1992 than humanity has throughout the entire industrial revolution.

Regarding abortion, there is simply no need for it except for those rare cases when the mother is in medical danger and a choice must be made. The weepy tales of the "bad old days with coat hangers" don't cut it either because it is now impossible to hide from the responsibility of paternity. (DNA?) Fems and lefties who love killing babies are so inclined only because they do not want anybody telling them to actually behave responsibly and act like adults.

The democratic party and their philosophical allies on the left are driven by their lust for power. If they didn't think they had to impose their will and values on others, they wouldn't need to establish so many methods of applying force to their fellow citizens. It's all about control, of others. Everything you write just reinforces that. Just wait until obamacare controls YOUR life or that of somebody you love. There's an old saying that goes like this:

"Hell hath no fury like a liberal that's been mugged!" Just wait and see what life will be like if our little 'wannabe dictator' actually gets his way. Lefties desperately need the mechanism of applying force because their ideas and practices just do not work. Never have, never will. Why did the Communists have to build a wall? It wasn't to keep free people out!

Purpleguy| 1.21.11 @ 10:04AM

There is nothing magic about 20% of GDP. Tax base must grow to meet the demand. Only the tax cut fairy thinks you don't need to pay for the services your government, federal, state and local provide. Since the majority of deficits have been built by Republicans, you know who doesn't care about deficit spending - it has been their plan since Reagan to bankrupt the government. Nice, huh? Bankrupt us all so they can have their way. Really? Might as well have poked holes in the Titanic to sink her.
Remove healthcare as a burden to industry, we become more competitive. Streamline the myriad of arcane insurance rules and regs, we become more efficient in delivery of healthcare. We almost spend 20% of GDP on healthcare - far, far above what any other country spends. Why is that? We CAN afford a public healthcare system, just like any other First World country.
They all just had the dubious advantage of having been wiped out by WWII and had to institute government healthcare to protect the population.

George S| 1.21.11 @ 10:31AM

Then why did the Obama administration give over 200 companies waivers (permission to break the law)?

David| 1.21.11 @ 10:37AM

Actually most first world nations don’t actually have a public insurance system in the way that you think of it.
Also most Americans as shown by that little electoral victory, do not believe it’s the job on the Government to provide Health Care Services. They believe that the private sector can deliver better services for cheaper amounts. Certainly if the US health care insurance companies were required to operate across state lines, were not given special government protections and had to compete like most companies do in a free and unfettered market place you would see improvements in delivery and care.
Speaking as someone who has to live in a country with substandard care, with long wait lines, and Doctors who advise me to travel to the States to get real and better care, where the Rich really do get better service. I do think there is room for improvement.

Oldefarte| 1.22.11 @ 12:39PM

20%....you're a complete moron! Try 3% which is too high for some of us's purposes. Take your governmental welfare and stick it. The solution to the defecit, debt, immigration and unemployment is to completely eliminate governmental welfare, which will force its indigent receivers to go to work [picking crops, cleaning buildings, whatever] to earn their own living, which will force the illegals to re-deport back to Mexico, which will lower governmental expenses/spending, which will lessen taxpayers' tax burdens, and which will make this country great once again [so possibly Michelle My Belle can somehow be proud of same]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Purpleguy| 1.22.11 @ 2:29PM

i wonder if you realize how you sound when you constantly call people you don't agree with names. It really doesn't help your cause.
Can you define "governmental welfare"? Is it anyone that gets paid by the government? Is it only people that don't have an income? Is it someone retired? Just exactly what are you railing against?

Ken (Old Texican)| 1.21.11 @ 8:17AM

Purpleguy,
Sorry, we still haven't figured out how to fix stupid here.
Most of us here have long since taken emergency measures for when the inevitable crash comes.
You don't have to tell anyone if you should wake up smart enough to do so one morning.

Purpleguy| 1.21.11 @ 10:16AM

I agree - in the interest of keeping all your hard earned money to yourselves, you're more than happy to throw everything and everyone under the bus - except yourself of course. Stupid is on display in all it's glory rampant on this site - I agree.

Curtis Rasmussen| 1.21.11 @ 10:30AM

I work hard to make life better for family. How am I throwing everything and everyone under the bus by doing so?

Answer. I'm not. Capitalism has allowed this country to become wealthy, a large majority of our poor have a car, food, and a roof over their heads. If you want to talk impoverishment, look at all the socialist systems out there.

It's my money, I make plans with it, and where it eventually ends up is none of your business. I have to leave for work soon, why don't you crawl behind my car? I forgot, you don't have any legs, snake.

George True| 1.21.11 @ 1:07PM

So we should all feel grateful that the government allows us to keep any of our own money.

Purpleguy| 1.21.11 @ 1:31PM

If you don't like America, then leave. We have the government the people gave us.
Who ever told you that you could live for free in a country with all the advantages we have here? You want to lower your taxes, start stripping away the benefits you don't want and see how you like your newly created "country". What you take for granted is for more than what you yourself can pay for - and you don't ever think about it, do you?

Curtis Rasmusssen| 1.21.11 @ 1:46PM

I vote that this is the dumbest thing I've read in quite some time. No one here is looking to gain from the hard work of others except trolls who want more than their simpleton abilities will give them.

Keep 'em coming, troll. I need a hearty laugh.

Purpleguy| 1.22.11 @ 2:32PM

U gain from the hard work of others everyday - you just don't want to pay for it! Teachers, firemen, police, Armed forces and the Pentagon, CIA, FBI, Justice Dept, State Dept,etc.,etc., etc. - you think that all comes free or cheap? Get over yourselves ... you should take some responsibility for your country and pay up and shut up - or leave.

George True| 1.21.11 @ 2:09PM

So I repeat: According to your way of thinking, we should all just quit grousing and be grateful that we are allowed to keep any of our own hard earned money. That does seem to be the essence of what you are saying.

Purpleguy| 1.22.11 @ 2:36PM

No, you should be grateful that you can help take responsibility for all the wonderful advantages and benefits your country bestows upon you - far beyond what you, yourself could achieve or pay for - but be happy to pay your fair share for all of us - including you and yours. And then shut up and quit your grousing.
Do you not realize that politicians on the right pander to y'all and tell you what you want to hear just to get your vote - and then turn their back on you afterward? Where's the jobs program Mr Boehner? Nary a word while they line up how to feed at the lobbyist trough.

JShizzle| 1.21.11 @ 2:23PM

No, if YOU don't like capitalism and free market ideas then YOU leave America. Go somewhere that is more fair...like Venezuela or Cuba. You'll feel right at home there. We Conservatives are not interested in "living for free"...it's you liberal idiots that want to take the money we EARN and spend it on people that don't contribute. Oh, and according to polls that you libs love so much, Conservatives consistently donate more to charity than you selfish liberal scrooges.

Purpleguy| 1.22.11 @ 2:46PM

Capitalism is America. But who told you that Capitalism = it's all mine. The government provides the country, framework, rules and laws under which capitalism can flourish. And, yet, you really don't love America - because you have to pay for it.

"take the money we EARN and spend it on people that don't contribute. " - who are you talking about? what people? the unemployed that lost jobs in the recession? Wall Street Hedge Fund Managers that contribute nothing? How about Seniors that have retired and contribute nothing? Do you mean children that aren't yet ready to contribute? How about the sick or disabled - are you railing against them - those useless non-workers? You sure don't mean the Armed Forces, do you - they don't make anything?
Do you mean the Church, synagogue or mosque in your neighborhood? Or do you mean just the paster, reverend, priest, rabbi, or imam?
And, just exactly what do you mean by "contribute" ? Money, Art, Labor, Knowledge, Muscle - just what are those you think are taking your money away from you not contributing?

And, what do you mean "contribute"?

John Navratil| 1.21.11 @ 2:34PM

Purpleguy,

Explain, please, how it is that those at the upper-end of the income scale can take advantage of more than they can pay for - those, at the lower-end don't do the paying.

From where does all this magic money appear?

Purpleguy| 1.22.11 @ 2:52PM

Are you serious, really? Do you really think Warren Buffet would build the airports, roads and other infrastructure he uses, the University that taught him, the Armed Forces that protect him and his property, the legal and financial system that enabled his rise to the super rich, and a myriad of other government-supplied institutions, functions and benefits throughout his life that were there for him AND you for the taking. And, all that's asked in return is for a slice of your income. And, you're complaining still? That's greed, selfish, or self-centered. It sure doesn't echo the immortal words of JFK - "Ask not what your country can do for, but ask what you can do for your country" - I've listed a few things the country provides you through it's government - what have you done for America? Whine about paying for her bounty? Just pay up and shut up - or leave our glorious America.

BackToBasics| 1.22.11 @ 2:52AM

from your post - You want to lower your taxes, start stripping away the benefits you don't want

Yes, I'd like to strip away all government payments for heallth care. That's the way it was when I was young.

I'd also like to strip away welfare payments for anyone able to work. I'd be in favor of temporary governemnt work programs like the CCC or WPA until the private sector got moving again due to the decrease in taxes from dropping health care coverage.

Entire departments could be stripped. We don't need the "benefits" of the Education Department for example and most departments are overfunded as well. Let's strip out some costs there are well.

The economy would pick up quickly. Within 2 years time of massive governemnt cutbacks, the economy would grow so much we could stop the interim CCC and WPA programs for example. Before you argue about the costs of those programs, they'd still be cheaper than monthly handouts to millions and we'd have something to show for it too in our public places; like the thousands of parks and buildings built in the 30's that are still in use today. They still look nice too. Went to a post office built in 1934 just the other day; beautiful place.

If we did this I'd say I'd like my country even better.

Oldefarte| 1.22.11 @ 12:43PM

'Everyone' is responsible for their own personal wellbeing and salvation, not for anyone else's, moron. Eveyone is put on earth as a test by the Supreme Being. Either you make it or you don't, all based upon your own individual efforts/decisions in life. I AIN'T MY BROTHERS' KEEPER, and never will be [except for forced governmental taxiation of course]!!

Purpleguy| 1.22.11 @ 2:57PM

" I AIN'T MY BROTHERS' KEEPER, and never will be " - Wow, you do realize how anti-Christian you sound? Jesus told us all to be our brother's keeper. Did you miss that part? Or don't you give a d***? I assume as "oldefarte" your up in years - don't you think you ought to start considering how you will be judged when you pass on? With your attitude, it might be quite harsh.
I will pray for you to see the light, and approach others with more tolerance and kindness. Don't worry, be happy. But I would repent if I were you.

MikeD| 1.22.11 @ 9:44PM

Purpleguy:
Do you actually work for a living? It really sounds like you're a student that mom and dad are putting through school and providing you with an allowance. You really need to learn something, because you just don't make sense. You're like the obvious "lower IQ lady" that has made the rounds of the internet sites with her comments after the 2008 election. Here's her quote:

"We all gonn be rich; rich! We gonn' have lots of bucks! We be rich on obama-dollars!"

Questioner: "If you're going to be rich, where is all this money going to come from?"

"Obama-dollars! He gonn' print obama-dollars in the White House! We gonn' be rich! Rich! It be our turn!"

Questioner: "But you still haven't told me where this money is going to come from."

Obama-dollars! We gonn' be rich wit' obama-dollars! That be where they come from! Obama-dollars! We rich now! Now it our turn!"

Purpleguy, you sound just like that. When Republicans discussed changes in Social Security in the late 90's, rather than discuss actual ways to do it, the Dems just ran ads telling Americans that the republicans want granny to eat dog food. The republicans just gave up because there's no way to compete with granny and dog food when the dems and their buddies in the media are lying. If anybody on the right said or did one tenth the vicious things the lefties did to George Bush, we'd all be called racists instantly. What do you think would happen if some producer made a movie about assassinating Barack Obama? Bush was 'fair game', barry is untouchable. Liberalism depends on an ignorant electorate and corrupt judges because they will never get a majortiy to vote for their hair brained schemes. I wonder what you and the media might have done if the republicans ever jammed ANYTHING through congress the way pelosi and the dems did with healthcare; in the middle of the night on a Saturday! President Reagan was very clear and concise: "We're right; you're wrong." If you have any hopes to be regarded as anything but a fool, you'd better read some history, economics, and political science.

Lizabeth| 1.21.11 @ 2:05PM

I posted this information on another thread here at AS, but am posting it again here it's pertinent and shows one real reason there will be job losses now and in the future directly attributable to Obamacare:
Here're some interesting facts I was presented with during a department meeting this week. I work for one of the largest healthcare provider systems in the State of Oklahoma. We must cut another 5% out of our total budget for fiscal year 2012 and a total of 14% by fiscal year 2014. The financial LOSS our company will suffer is predicted at $178,000,00o PER YEAR, 2014 through 2019, once Obamacare is implemented. That's just the healthcare system I work for, there are others large and small here in Oklahoma. Let's pretend there are 3 healthcare provider systems in each of the 50 states and that each will take a loss of roughly the same amount stated above. That's a loss of $26,700,000,000 PER YEAR from 2014 through 2019. We know that figure is only a drop in the bucket because of pretending there are 3 systems in each state and the loss incurred the same - some have many, many more, but all have large and small.

We've been losing jobs and cutting back since 2007, then even more in 2008, 2009, 2010 with more to come in 2011. Fortunately, our executives chose to start at the top and work their way down instead of the other way around. But now, employees who retire or move are not replaced. Of course, it's not just our loss of jobs, it will spread to vendors, costs will rise, etc. It is job killing legislation that must be repealed, the bad parts thrown out, the good parts (if there are any) saved and tweaked and start over on the rest.

Ned| 1.21.11 @ 3:12PM

All true and quite relevant, just keep in mind when relating such information, these are not unintended or coincidental results of BarryCare... killing the insurance industry and thereby FORCING single-payer is the CORE PURPOSE of the legislation. Hell, I'll bet that part of the reason that it's such a leviathan is that they are better able to hide their intent under exta tons of legal BS.

Purpleguy| 1.22.11 @ 3:02PM

I've worked in corporate management, and I can tell you that what the workers are told, IS NOT the whole truth. The management comes up with what they think is what you will believe to make adjustments in many cases to cover mistakes or stupidity by upper management. But having to drop the cost of healthcare is a good thing, and saving 27 billion sounds like a start.
You have been losing jobs there long before Barack Obama was even elected, so the connection to the new HCRA is shaky at best, so don't worry that is Obamacare causing the problem - it's a management restructuring - which has far more grave consequences for your jobs.

MikeD| 1.22.11 @ 9:47PM

You are a liar. Based only on what you have posted, you could never even get hired in management, much less stay long enough to get any significant experience. If you want to pass yourself off as anything, learn something first. Your own words constantly betray you. You have NEVER been any kind of a manager.

Jay Dee| 1.23.11 @ 7:43PM

Why you are just the smartest person I've ever seen. Why are you hanging around a message board and not running some big corporation?

You make zero sense in your above statements - ZERO. The cost of health care is not dropping, it is going up, each and every year. The only way health care costs will drop is when the government takes it over - everything - doctors, hospitals, nurses - all paid for by tax dollars.

Are you getting paid by the word or by the post for your drivel?

Ron| 1.21.11 @ 10:59PM

@ Purpleguy

I am 71 years of age. Please tell me how to get excited about the following excerpts from the Obamacare bill:

** Page 272. section 1145: Cancer hospitals will ration care according to the patient's age.

** Page 317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on hospital expansion; however, communities may petition for an exception.

** Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning consultations. Those on Social Security will be required to attend an "end-of-life planning" seminar every five years. (Death counseling!)

** Page 429, line 13-25: The government will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.
Before the bill was passed the American public was assured that health care rationing of any kind would not be a part of this legislation.

Please don't call me stupid because I fear getting cancer and having health care withheld for political reasons. It should be MY idea when I choose to forego further medical care.

Purpleguy| 1.22.11 @ 3:30PM

You're not stupid, you are on Medicare - don't worry, you're covered. Single-payer care is not changing for you at 71.

Do you have a link to this information for review? I searched the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 and cannot find these citations. I wonder if these are what others have told you is in there? The language is not the language inside the bill ... even more evidence that someone else has "interpreted" for you what the law means - always a dangerous thing to accept.
Read the bill yourself - it really has a lot of good things in it, despite what right-wing Howlers whine about.

Oldefarte| 1.22.11 @ 12:24PM

Purple Moron: Any hospital or capitalistic entity will always be favorable to that which has the potential to nake money for their bottom/profit line. That is no rational reason applaud this WELFARECARE. The individual mandate forces all individuals to buy this insurance, and those who cannot afford [a majority of the 30 million that was the reason-target of same] will receive this welfare at taxpayers' expense. Ever heard of MEDICAID, which will see its enrollment ranks quadruple from the indigents getting their AFFORDABLE INSURANCE [like 'AFFORDABLE HOMES that are now bankrupting this country]. Why don't you and your liberal looney friends of the radical left variety simply pull out YOUR WALLETS and pay for this Obamacare, so that us taxpayers will not have to do so?????????????

Purpleguy| 1.22.11 @ 3:41PM

You really are a bitter old man, aren't you? You spew hatred of things you know nothing about. Why is that? Like I said before, try and live like a Christian not a selfish, crotchety old fart.

For your information, it was Capitalists making money from allowing people who couldn't afford it to buy homes and then quickly selling those mortgages to others to slice and dice into CDO's. collaterlized debt obligations.
Read about them, if you are ignorant of them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.....obligation
By doing so, the risk of mortgage default is passed on to those who didn't decide to let the homeowner who couldn't afford it to buy the house. They made THEIR money and couldn't care less about anyone else - and that was capitalism at work, buddy, not the government. Government regulation was removed or didn't even exist on CDO's - and that was the result that you blame on the poor suckers that were trapped in homes they couldn't afford.
And, yet, you voted for the people who want to give these rich bastards tax cuts and tax breaks? Really?
As far as a hospital making money off of sick people for profit is disgusting. they have to make money, sure, to exist and pay the bills, but non-profit hospitals are to be preferred. Money isn't everything, or didn't Mommy teach you that.

saleboter| 1.21.11 @ 6:53AM

Don't worry because even if you are unemployed you will be forced to buy insurance or pay a fine.

Pete| 1.21.11 @ 10:29AM

Unless you pledge to vote the "correct" way, no doubt.

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 1.21.11 @ 7:10AM

The reason the health care implementation was delayed until 2013 was because they knew for a fact it would shut the private insurers down causing an immediate loss of 5 million jobs.

If the plan had been implemented immediately Obama could have never been re-elected. The Democrats got a shock when they got thrown out of power in the House. The Senate and perhaps the Presidency will follow in 2012 as the pubic gets a look at their higher health care premiums.

Purpleguy| 1.21.11 @ 10:18AM

Have you checked the polls lately? Seems you may be counting some chickens a little too soon Billy

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 1.21.11 @ 10:36AM

Obama was rejected in the only poll that counted. That was election day. There's no way jobs will be created under Obama. He and his unelected Tsars are creating thousand of regulations every month. Until that's stopped the economy will implode and the voters will come to one conclusion. He's doesn't know what's he doing, because he doesn't know what he needs to know.

Purpleguy| 1.21.11 @ 1:10PM

Actually, it was mostly ConservaDems that were rejected, not liberals or progressives. Had very little to do with Obama.
"He's doesn't know what's he doing, because he doesn't know what he needs to know." - Ha! Obama has done more for this country and it's ideals than you can possibly fathom. And, you think an actor (Reagan) or a playboy (Dubya) knew what they were doing? Look at the mess they helped create ...

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 1.21.11 @ 1:17PM

Thanks for your response but those generalities won't feed one hungry child.

Purpleguy| 1.21.11 @ 1:39PM

The country nearly imploded BECAUSE of all the de-regulation occurred that allowed Wall Street and the Banking industry to take us all to the cleaners. Their billions in ill-gotten gain isn't feeding any children but their own.

It had nothing to do with "over-regulation" .. that's just baloney, and history proves the opposite is true.

Obama's policies have already created more jobs than Bush did in 8 years. Remember, most of the Great Recession job losses were under Bush from 2007-2009, not Obama - so don't try that red herring.
Where were you when the term "Czar" was coined under Reagan in 1982?

George True| 1.21.11 @ 2:37PM

As always, you know a lot of things that just aren't so. Over eight years, Bush has a net job creation of 2.6 million jobs. This was in addition to absorbing the 2.5 million new college graduates every one of those years into the work force. Also, the number of people employed reached an all time high under GWB. Obama, by comparison has had a net loss of 3 million jobs so far in just 22 months. In addition, new college grads are NOT finding jobs, which is part of what is contributing to the 9.5% reported unemployment and the almost 20% real rate of unemployment.

By the way, I thought the topic was Obamacare.

Purpleguy| 1.22.11 @ 3:48PM

Well, I guess we should go back to the oh so successful ways of GW Bush and his Republican gang members (Congress) ...? Is that what you are recommending ? In any case, without citations or links to your information, I won't even try to counter your "facts" ... I will only ask, do you know what a "Jobless Recovery" means? Under GW Bush, that's what we had in the early 2000's and then the recession that started in 2007 and the job losses continued to mount until well into Barack Obama's Presidency. Job losses have stopped for well over a year now, although not huge gains yet - approx a 1 million jobs.

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 1.21.11 @ 2:53PM

Deregulation had nothing to do with the economy's trouble. The real problems occurred when the government insisted that banks lend money to people with lousy or non-existent credit ratings, including illegal aliens.

That's what caused the problem and everyone (But Purpleguy) knows it.

Purpleguy| 1.22.11 @ 3:43PM

You aren't being well informed by your Fixed News pals, that's fer sure. Try reading some books by economists, not commentators.

Oldefarte| 1.22.11 @ 12:48PM

Purple, you simply are a moron! Wall St didn't create the banking/credit/real estate crisis; the GD CRA of 1977 [and subsequently, Fannie and Freddie/HUD] did with their 'AFFORDABLE HOMES' welfare giveaways. Obama creating jobs, alright.......GOVERNMENT JOBS of federal, state and local [SEIU/union] types that would/should have been eliminated if not for Obamie's UNSTIMULUS welfare to them. Go get back under your rock!!!!!!!!

Purpleguy| 1.22.11 @ 3:49PM

We can always count on your Hannity-speak to enlighten us all. Do you read?

Jay Dee| 1.23.11 @ 7:47PM

Are you smoking, snorting or injecting? If you believe Obama has created more jobs than Bush in 8 years, then why was the employment rate at 4.6 in '06.

John Navratil| 1.21.11 @ 2:39PM

Purpleguy,

You are absolutely right. The ConservaDems recruited by Rahm to run in conservative districts and then vote out-of-step with same. The irony is that this move the Dems more to the left as evidenced by Pelosi's re-election as Speaker.

Not to worry though, in 2012, a new crop of your fellow-travellers will come to the rescue, right?

Purpleguy| 1.22.11 @ 3:58PM

After you're oh-so competent wonderboys don't deliver what they promised and the economy improves, yeppers.
Actually, I prefer divided government - Congress is supposed to limit the President and vice versa - as the Constitution expects. Political parties have bastardized our system, but we are where we are, so I prefer a strong, caring government to a strong, nasty one.

Oldefarte| 1.22.11 @ 12:29PM

Purpleexcrement, he/they are still below 50% [and he/they ain't no Hillbilly from Arkansas, either; since everyone now knows who/what they truly are]. They've come out of their closets big time, and 11/2/10 was simply a downpayment on 11/4/12, dumbars!!!!!!!!!

JP| 1.21.11 @ 7:49AM

2011 will be a watershed year. The dollar remains very weak, and unless significant spending cuts are enacted, it will drop further. This is something that Progressives and RINOs ignore at thier own risk. Inflation is already here (gold inching to $1500, corn approaching $10/bushel, oil will probably go above $100/barrel by July). Housing remains at critical levels. Bank of America reported a $1.5 billion loss this morning due to asset depreciations and foreclosures. Nearly $1 trillion of mortgages remain underwater, with another $800 billion in arrears.

The logical move for the Fed would be to increase interest rates in order to wipe out excess liquidity and stregnthen the dollar. But this would also raise mortgage rates, finance fees, credit card rates, and loan rates. The over-all effect would be another dip in employment, which would put more pressure on banks balance sheets.

In short, ObamaCare is the worst thing to be implemented right now. It raises the cost of labor, increases Medicaid and Medicare costs, and will surely lead to more dollar depreciation. Good job Dems. Have a happy 2011.

MikeD| 1.22.11 @ 9:54PM

Please do not quote any more facts. It upsets purple guy and we do not want to be responsible for his tiny little head exploding. I will say one thing for him though; he is oblivious to what a fool he is. The problem is that he just might be old enough to vote in 2012; and THAT'S FRIGHTENING! Unless mom takes away his crayons. Oops! I forgot; he's a corporate manager. Right...and I'm the worlds oldest dancing hippo.

Ret. Marine| 1.21.11 @ 8:10AM

and it took an article to tell us the obvious, jeeeez, another slow day?

crooked wren| 1.21.11 @ 8:25AM

All this --- AND (perhaps most disturbing to me) your Doc (who may or may not retain you as a "patient" in his "practice") has to consult the Feds before he treats you. The Feds will decide the protocol for you and for me. The Feds will tell the Doc what to do first, second, third, etc. If said Doc (who knows you and your medical records inside and out) thinks first step is ludicrous, repetitive, and a waste of valuable time (possibly quite valuable time on your part), said Doc still will need to do it -- unless said Doc wishes to pay a tremendous fine. (If said Doc does it again, said Doc may see the inside of our overflowing jail cells -- nice work, ObamaCare.)

I wish the Republicans would start trumpeting this part of the mess. And get their facts at the ready when the talking heads start asking them the same question.

I keep seeing polls and hearing Dems talk about how this thing is so life-enhancing.

Yet new states are coming on board the "sue ObamaCare" train.

I pray the American people will NOT be duped by the media's pandering, TASS-like "reportage" (using the last term quite loosely.)

Stan Redmond| 1.21.11 @ 10:05AM

"Think of an economy where people could be an artist or a photographer or a writer without worrying about keeping their day job in order to have health insurance."

- Nancy Pelosi

Ned| 1.21.11 @ 3:18PM

think of that person being named "Pelosi"...

jolizoom| 1.21.11 @ 10:29PM

Niiiiiiice! :)

Purpleguy| 1.21.11 @ 10:23AM

Required reading for all those worried about healthcare http://www.nationaljournal.com.....d-20110120

George S| 1.21.11 @ 10:44AM

Jefferson is proven correct again...

The author, Brownstein, is a political journalist (I dare say he likes and roots for Obama). If he ever ran a business and had to balance health care costs with the bottom line, or run an insurance company, or directed a hospital, or worked for a medical billing service, or had any experience in the field to give a first hand account of expertise -- the way this article cites real world business decisions made by real world companies -- then I STILL wouldn't take Brownstein seriously. As I said, he is after all journalist. An opinionist who didn't cite a single fact.

Purpleguy| 1.21.11 @ 1:28PM

Hmmm, neither did you or the writer of the article (i mean journalist - what do you think journalism is?)

George True| 1.21.11 @ 2:43PM

You need to stop reading and believing articles from sources whose purpose in writing the article is to promote a leftist agenda. Unless of course promoting a leftist agenda is also YOUR purpose, in which case it doesn't matter how many falsehoods you quote as long as the agenda is promoted.

jolizoom| 1.21.11 @ 10:31PM

You just now figured that out? :)

Purpleguy| 1.22.11 @ 3:54PM

What's the leftist agenda? Is it anything like a right-wing conspiracy?

Homocoloridiot| 1.28.11 @ 11:46AM

At least you didn't quote MSNBC. You've proven you don't understand environmental science, political science, economics, among many other fields. You are on a roll.

Oldefarte| 1.22.11 @ 12:30PM

We'll simply read the congressional record after this piece of excrement is finally flushed down the legislative toilet!!!!!!!!

Pete| 1.21.11 @ 10:37AM

Wonder if Osama asked Hu about population engineering the other night. The foundation has been laid now for that to happen in the US. Glad I have already had my kids.

W.P.KOCH| 1.21.11 @ 1:42PM

WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN

Congress and the White House should stop wasting the people’s money, “cut as detailed herein” and use savings to improve quality of basic invested entitlements. Preserve the 2010 tax schedule with no inheritance taxes. Congress should improve basic Medicare. Vote opponents to this “out”. Citizens come first.
It is time the U.S. reduces human rites and police activities for the World by lobbying the United Nations, NATO and Interpol to “take on more”. 800 bases in 63 countries across the world should be reduced. Examples are fewer forces in, Bosnia, Germany, Philippines and Okinawa.
Starting with Iraq, only train for self reliance. After the surge in Afghanistan repeat above and diminish corruption by requiring accounting practices for aid, substituting minerals mining and food crops for drugs.
Cut bloated federal bureaucracy and phase in outsourcing. Combine CDC, EPA and FDA. Combine the FAA, NHTSA and Transportation Department. Combine GAO and CBO. Departments should eliminate “must spend all”. Return “unused” yearly budget to the treasury. Cut combined department budgets (other than entitlements) on an average of 10%.
Eliminate all 32 CZARS Mr. president. Reduce your 469 member staff which makes nearly 39 million per year! Halt first lady $180,000 air force one vacation trips. Stop “$200 million per day” presidential-family foreign trips. Cancel $ 20,000,000 executive order (HB 1388) to relocate key Hamas members to U.S.
Contribute to only one of: The World Bank or International Monetary Fund or U.S. Agency for International Development.
Reduce foreign aid bribery. For example, no aid to oil rich -Iraq. $37 billion and increasing with $8.7 billion of development funds not accounted for. Halt $150 million aid to Palestinians.
Charge bailed companies (TARP) for their huge executive bonuses at taxpayer expense. Government should sell shares to recoup for taxpayer. About $154 billion owed. Forget Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Congress should reduce “stimulus” expenditures by halting: over budget and vote bribery “earmarks”. Example: Stop “cow burp” study. $13 billion unspent in states. Congress should rescind their 2009 increase and do not pay student loans for their staff. Please- no renting of private or military aircraft. An example was Pelosi’s family of $2.1 million for over 2 years. Congress should set commercial travel cost standards and controls.
Reduce medical cost by: allowing purchasing care anywhere in U.S., “tort reform”, and reducing “red tape”. Provide Medicare aid to local medical groups for expediting billing cost speed, doctor/patient verification and fraud reduction.
Congress should enforce existing immigration laws. Complete an improved fence. Entitlements or benefits should be for only citizens. Deport criminal “illegals”. Only deportees and workers on Visa Programs qualify for needed medical benefits.
These actions will improve funding for:” Medicare”, “Medicaid, and “Veteran’s Affairs”. Corporations should be allowed tax reduction incentives for hiring with healthcare plan options.
Healthcare quality can be at least that for Congress or the Federal Employee Health Benefits Program (FEHBP). Additional benefits are: dental coverage, improved visual coverage, no drug “donut hole”, no pre-existing conditions, no deductibles and co-pays except for extended skilled level nursing.
Other benefits are aid for unemployment compensation and Social Security with reinstated cost of living increases.

Oldefarte| 1.21.11 @ 2:30PM

For many of you, this is not rocket science; but for the rest that are lacking a few brain cells and whose elevator does not always go to the top.....THIS OBAMACARE IS SIMPLY GOVERNMENTAL WELFARE. The uninsured target of this legislation were [1] to stupid, poor etc to afford their own health insurance or [2] were wished to play the Russian-Roulette game of not purchasing their own insurance due to their bet upon their continued good health avoidance of the need for same. Obamacare is nothing but a Robin Hood type robbing of the so-called rich [those with income] to give to the poor [those living on governmental welfare]. Just as the domestic liberals have previously provided governmental housing welfare ['AFFORDABLE HOUSING'] that is now bankrupting our country, so too are they now attempting to provide governmental health insurance welfare to their constituents [at taxpayer expense]. IT AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE, folks, but then again, maybe it is for some!!!!!

Dude | 1.21.11 @ 6:59PM

Nice spin about Healthmarket, actually they started laying off people in 2008. In the Securities and Exchange Commission filing, HealthMarkets blamed the layoffs on "dropping enrollment levels experienced by the company's insurance subsidiaries," along with national healthcare reform and "related legislative developments." Your missing the main reason, it wasent Obamacare it was a reduction in enrollment starting in 2008, due to the many recession.

somnolence| 1.21.11 @ 7:22PM

Purpleguy, I'll gladly trade your definition of "benefits" for lower taxes. I know how to save money on my own terms, without "Uncle" stepping in, and from Native American heritage I know how to handle physical pain up to the point of going into shock just to avoid damned health clinics or hospitals. Myself and others should not assume the burdens of the irresponsible just to fortify the current socialist helmsman's wishes.

dw| 1.21.11 @ 8:08PM

If truth and facts were food purpledummy would starve.

Tenn Slim| 1.22.11 @ 10:53AM

Western Tenn Hospitals, clinics, Pharmacuetical sales folks, etal, are seeing cuts in divisions, departments, offices, of the LOWER end of the staff. Folks that are less professionally educated, less tenured and generaly less skilled. OBAMACARE is fulfilling the Leftist agenda of Cloven Piven, very efficiently.
end
Semper Fi
WE ARE Prevailing

Jack London| 1.22.11 @ 2:58PM

I see Purpleguy has been a lone voice of sanity here. The truth is that portable secure insurance will do nothing but create opportunities (and I believe small businesses are already benefiting form tax breaks). The selfish greed and fear of people who understand nothing about the relatively modest changes in the health reform is telling.

Bill Vancouver| 1.22.11 @ 7:06PM

Purpleguy, 1.21.11@10:15 AM said "......our energy needs requires fossil fuels, of which there is an end. The earth is not making any more...." Are you certain? Check the late Thomas Gold's The Deep Hot Biosphere, The Myth of Fossil Fuels. Also a good explanation of Russian scientific studies as directed by Stalin which investigated Germany's synthetic oil in WWII is found in Black Gold Stranglehold by Corsi and Smith. I not saying Gold is right, and I'm not saying he is wrong, but we are drilling for "fossil fuels" at depths where being "fossils" is difficult to explain. Whatever happened to Peak Oil predicted 20-30 years ago? Maybe the earth is making more!

jharp| 1.23.11 @ 4:18PM

God you people are stupid.

The health care industry has added more jobs since the passage of ObamaCare than any other industry.

Please share with me how you get 30,000,000 new customers and you need to cut jobs to take care of them.

Idiots!

Rick| 1.23.11 @ 6:28PM

Your a rasist!

jharp| 1.23.11 @ 8:51PM

Rick| 1.23.11 @ 6:28PM

"Your a rasist!"

You are an idiot.

Jason| 1.24.11 @ 1:00AM

Why the hell would you include the link to the AP fact-check piece that you quoted? ------"CBO isn't saying that there is job loss as much as they are saying that fewer people will be working," explained Fronstin. "There is a difference. People voluntarily working less isn't the same as employers cutting jobs."------ the article than clarifies that some people are only working their jobs so they can get healthcare that wouldn't be available elsewhere if it weren't for the bill. If they are able to quit or retire, 650,000 jobs would then become open to those who really need work to live. That's a good thing. That lowers the unemployment rate. You provided the information that contradicts your entire argument. Who the hell is your editor? Next time leave out the link.

FREE tea| 2.2.11 @ 1:08AM

---RE: jobs.

NOT UNTIL the vast, entrenched, Globalist-eugenics cabal that are our capstone, tax-free, ultra-rich, inbred and interbred capstone foundations
and NGO's (--and, of course, their brethren in London)
are confronted, called out, prosecuted and dismantled ---once and for all ---things will continue
to deteriorate.

IN FACT, deterioration will accelerate rapidly.
It's in their agendas, plans, reports and documents.

GET REAL!