The American Spectator

C. S. P. Schofield| 1.20.11 @ 6:21AM

I remember - with some disgust - the Japanese Supermom/Superschool fad of the late 1980's. For a while everywhere you turned some twit was assuring us all that the Japanese schools and Japanese parents had it all figured out. The horrific rates of teen suicides in Japan were widely ignored. Then that fad was superseded by something else and mercifully passed into history.

The Tiger Mom idiocy will pass too, though probably not before making a lot of people miserable. Wish I could say I expected the same to be true of our Passé Progressive/Union-ruined schools.

Hello Kitty| 1.20.11 @ 10:27AM

Thank you, Mr. Stein.
You warm Hello Kitty's heart.
Hello Kitty is here to promote kindness.
And I have a sweet request for all American Spectator readers:

Please be kind to any trolls
who should happen to pop up
in today's posts.
Be kind to the trolls from
Huff Post and Daily Kos
for the sake of Hello Kitty.

Let a hundred flowers bloom in your heart. Just be kind.

Pepe Le Pew| 1.20.11 @ 10:28AM

Thumbs up, Hello Kitty!

You're a cutie and a sweetie, and Pepe loves you.

Hello Kitty| 1.20.11 @ 10:32AM

Thanks, Pepe.

I'm thinking kind thoughts of you as I hum the beautiful "La Complainte de la Butte."

May a hundred flowers bloom in your sweet little heart, Pepe.

Pepe Le Pew| 1.20.11 @ 10:34AM

I blow you a kees.

Troll from Huff Post| 1.20.11 @ 1:11PM

What!

No bragging today from the snooty, egotistical, full-of-himself Ben Stein?

Eric Cartman| 1.20.11 @ 1:43PM

Troll,

I am taking Hello Kitty's advice, and I will be kind.

The next time you post, please try to be a little more courteous to our beloved editor Ben Stein. Your words hurt the hearts of the devoted readers of AmSpec.

Thank you, and may a hundred flowers bloom in your heart.

Hello Kitty| 1.20.11 @ 1:44PM

Thank you, Eric, for your kind restraint.

Ken Roberts | 1.21.11 @ 8:12AM

No.

michelle| 1.20.11 @ 10:45AM

Old saying : If you have children, remember this: When you finish with them, the rest of the world has to live with them, so please teach them respect and give them love..

Barbara| 1.20.11 @ 5:04PM

I work in the public schools. The large number of children who hit, kick, shove is unbelievable. This is an indication of what is allowed in the home. Some are polite and keep their hands and feet to themselves.
When a 6 year old year girl slams her fist into her other hand and runs her hand across her throat while glaring at a classmates mother ----- wait 10 years when she will be uncontrollable.
There is a wide gap between encouragement and abuse.

Achilles Toejam| 1.20.11 @ 11:28PM

"It is a crushing, scarring, disastrous experience for the child. It isn't the least bit funny. People who do it belong in prison, not lauded as supermoms." Oh please!

Barbara, I also work in the public schools and agree with you and it's getting worse every year, some of these parents actually believe their children are angels and if there's a problem it must be the teacher or some other school employee with a vendetta. My God they actually believe they're helping their kid by never letting them take responsibility and face consequences.

The proof is in the pudding that being that other countries who are not considered as advanced are kicking our butts academically and if there isn't a drastic change in attitudes and a return to proven principles and curriculum that once led American education to the top and has since been abandoned by progressive change agent educrats who are more interested in producing politically correct socialized subjects than freethinking academically superior students, making a misbehaving child stand in the corner something that was commonly done in my generation with absolutely no psychologically scarring affects is now considered humiliation and child abuse.

We are creating a generation of children who are not capable of accepting any constructive criticism without an emotional breakdown because they have never been allowed to fail even though failure is part of the learning process, until these wrongheaded ideals are abandoned and we return to what worked this country's education system will continue to slide into the trash heap, no wonder it's hard to keep good teachers when they have to wade through such PC crap. If they themselves haven't already been indoctrinated in the teacher colleges.

Laura| 1.26.11 @ 2:26PM

What makes you think the children who are hitting other children are the ones who have parents who push them to excel? I would guess that these are kids whose parents ignore them, not push them.

Adults who daily live with the knowledge that they could be more, do more, achieve more are the ones who take drugs and have simmering -below-the-surface anger that breaks free in acts of violence.

Adults who have been pushed too hard may have "issues" but they also have jobs and a network of other successful people who can help them, the wherewithal to make changes in their lives, etc.

Abuse is not just active, it can be passive. It can take the form of just ignoring your child, not preparing her for her future. Is over preparing your child worse than not preparing her for the 3/4 of her life? Is screaming, "You can do better?" worse than "You aren't worth the effort?"

Kitty| 1.20.11 @ 6:33AM

Thank you, Ben Stein.

Madame Chua is beating conformity into her children. That kind of 'parenting' does not produce Rush Limbaughs and Martin Luther Kings.

Appleby| 1.20.11 @ 6:36AM

It is necessary to have standards and enforce them; however, this can be done without screaming and threats. Nobody would try to train a dog by the Tiger Mom methods; why would she think a child would be different?

I do believe that homework is necessary and that children should read instead of Tweet, and that music lessons and summer camp and religious instruction and family vacations are mandatory; I also believe in the Three Rules for Children: Sit Still, Shut Up, Hands Off -- which cover every eventuality (properly fleshed out, of course -- the latter as *if it does not belong to you, do not touch it* covers everything from your Daddys gun to your neighbours wife). Start these rules as soon as baby can sit up and pay attention, and you have it covered. You can get a long way with the firm expectation that the child meet your standards. Someone asked me once how I *got* Steven to wear a suit and tie to church at the age of 7. To her amazement, I said, *I laid it out and said Put That On.*

Calkdust| 1.20.11 @ 10:30AM

Appleby...I believe you come as close to getting it as modern-day law allows. I may be way off base here, but I'm guessing you were not born with this knowledge. So, you must have/had at least one parent and a husband who has un-common good sense like you.
As an aside, I have read enough of Ben Stein's squishy work to know with doubt, he may not be the last person to call for parenting advise, but he's in the last 25 percentile.

michelle| 1.20.11 @ 10:47AM

Very well said. To us it was also to be seen and not heard..

Bea| 2.11.11 @ 4:35AM

My favorite child care advice comes from The Dog Whisperer, translated of course as this reply does. I sent to public school--after having paid for a couple years each for my children in nursery school, the point of both of which was to accustom the kids to getting along in groups of strangers--two well-behaved children. Outside of school they had been used to get approval for attitude and manners; imagine their surprise to find that neither of these qualities was approved in school. My daughter did suffer a good bit at having her desk dumped out on the floor for messiness, having her best friend's mother cautioned that my kid had too much influence over her friend, and having a chronic cough throughout 4th grade. My son was singled out for spending too much time in the kindergarten bathroom at the beginning of the day, being bullied in 3rd grade--the school psychologist advised him to "make friends" with his persecutor as any sane person would know would NOT work--and ultimately had to drop out of high school because the school being reconstructed around him (including asbestos abatement while the kids were in school) affected his health. I didn't sue. The truth is schools are not benign institutions and NOTHING parents do can counter the 6+ hours per day exposure and mythical respectability of our education system. Except if children are more afraid of their parents than of anything the school can do to them--so I sympathize with Tiger Mom, though I can't imitate her.

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 1.20.11 @ 6:45AM

The real issue here is not why do we have mothers screaming at children, that's been going on for 10,000 years.

The real issue is why do we have schools? I know why we have musical instruments but why do we have schools?

The failure rate at schools shows that many mothers as well as fathers do not care. Perhaps what we need is more screaming.

Unfortunately the days of achievement are behind us. If more mothers cared and encouraged their children to do better we might have fewer children in prison or using drugs.

No, Ben although I normally agree with you I must say that mankind did quite well with screaming mothers. It's only in the modern age of big government where all our problems have surfaced.

This would indicate that our system of big government if far more a problem then big screaming.

So, if your children have been bad feel free to yell at them once in awhile. I think they actually expect it.

PJ| 1.20.11 @ 7:05AM

Bill,
Read the article that Ben references about Tiger "Mother." This woman takes discipline & screaming to the extreme. Even real tigers don't treat their cubs this way!

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 1.20.11 @ 10:31AM

You'll have to excuse me for pointing this out but there isn't any definitive study which proves it doesn't work. As opposed to public school systems which have a failure rate of over 60% in many cities.

L. Ross| 1.20.11 @ 11:50AM

What I find interesting is how wedded we have become to the "school system". I homeschooled my two children for years and years. ALL children were homeschooled for millennia. Sending your kids off to become "socialized" with identically aged packs of brats is an entirely modern phenomena. From a historical perspective, homeschooling is vastly more normal and mainstream. Gets better results as well.

Occam's Tool| 1.20.11 @ 2:03PM

Actually, Bill, there's lots of data showing high emotional expression of a negative kind does not help young folks.

Set limits, enforce discipline. Otherwise, love and support whenever possible. Both must needs be in place for a child to succeed.

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 1.20.11 @ 5:11PM

You're assuming of course that the yelling is negative. Look at how many children in our society are never yelled at because their parents are the public school system. Many of them end up in the school of last resort, crime university.

Achilles Toejam| 1.20.11 @ 11:48PM

How much time do today's kids actually spend with their parents or the ever-increasing single-parent? Maybe we're looking in the wrong place. Daycare, preschool and then warehousing their kids in the government schools so everybody can work and have a big fine house new cars every couple years, fine clothes and vacations. Who's the kid really being raised by? Compared to committed homeschoolers who sacrifice the second income and spend time with their kids and their manners and academic achievement are evidence of their hard work and family closeness.

It's interesting to chase this back to when the mother lode of downturn started around the early 60s, now what happened about that time that put us on the wrong road?

Seek| 1.20.11 @ 11:11AM

It's not just intermittent yelling that makes parents like these "Tiger Moms" abusive. It's the unremittingly cold, controlling, brutal tone of voice used in everyday speech. It's the totalitarian refusal to permit any dissent from the child whatsoever. The screaming is merely the ace in the hole, the logical culmination of her coldness.

"Hussein O'Stalin" -- yeah, that sounds like a totalitarian name, come to think of it.

Occam's Tool| 1.20.11 @ 2:08PM

Dear Bill: please note the following abstract. "Expressed Emotion" is shrink speak for an atmosphere of verbal abuse and yelling---again, children are not vases, but "Tiger Mothers" are moronic.

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Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2010 Apr;67(4):328-38.

Etiological and clinical features of childhood psychotic symptoms: results from a birth cohort.
Polanczyk G, Moffitt TE, Arseneault L, Cannon M, Ambler A, Keefe RS, Houts R, Odgers CL, Caspi A.

Department of Psychology and Neuroscience, Duke University, 2020 W Main St, Ste 201, Campus Box 104410, Durham, NC 27708, USA.

Abstract
CONTEXT: It has been reported that childhood psychotic symptoms are common in the general population and may signal neurodevelopmental processes that lead to schizophrenia. However, it is not clear whether these symptoms are associated with the same extensive risk factors established for adult schizophrenia.

OBJECTIVE: To examine the construct validity of children's self-reported psychotic symptoms by testing whether these symptoms share the risk factors and clinical features of adult schizophrenia.

DESIGN: Prospective, longitudinal cohort study of a nationally representative birth cohort in Great Britain.

PARTICIPANTS: A total of 2232 twelve-year-old children followed up since age 5 years (retention, 96%). Main Outcome Measure Children's self-reported hallucinations and delusions.

RESULTS: Children's psychotic symptoms are familial and heritable and are associated with social risk factors (eg, urbanicity); cognitive impairments at age 5; home-rearing risk factors (eg, maternal expressed emotion); behavioral, emotional, and educational problems at age 5; and comorbid conditions, including self-harm.

CONCLUSIONS: The results provide a comprehensive picture of the construct validity of children's self-reported psychotic symptoms. For researchers, the findings indicate that children who have psychotic symptoms can be recruited for neuroscience research to determine the pathogenesis of schizophrenia. For clinicians, the findings indicate that psychotic symptoms in childhood are often a marker of an impaired developmental process and should be actively assessed.

PMID: 20368509 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Occam's Tool| 1.20.11 @ 2:10PM

Dear Bill:

Our public schools have no discipline thanks to the ACLU. They are a catastrophe. On the other hand, most kids don't need boot camp.

Common sense isn't.

kiwikit| 1.20.11 @ 6:46AM

Does noone remember growing up in the 50's and 60's when there were no 'playdates' and parents' driving kids all over for sports? We didn't have today's communication toys, were forced to study and do homework (by checking it and denying tv until such was done) and had schedules for sharing various household tasks? I lived in such a family and none of us came home with low grades because we didn't want to disappoint our parents and knew that much was expected of us. There was plenty of crying when we were required to get permission for various activites which were not always given.
Five of us grew up in such an environment including some physical punishment but mostly verbal and today, in our 60's, we're all successful,
happy, and have loving memories of our parents.
More than loving, we appreciate their showing their love via denial and we particularly appreciate their providing the gift of faith and their going out of their way to assure we went to parochial schools.
Balance discipline with love. . .

PJ| 1.20.11 @ 7:13AM

Did your mother hover over you & verbally abuse you for hours until you got your finger positions correct on a musical instrument? And with no break; this is what torturers do. This is not about denying gadgets & toys & appropriate punishment.

It's about a warped mother's sense about what makes a child a successful adult. Ben has got it 100% correct. And like a prior poster, I too hope it's only a fad in parenting.

The Big E| 1.20.11 @ 11:41AM

With all due respect, I don't think I would cite the generation of parents who gave us baby boomers and flower children as the ideal.

One of my sisters-in-law yells at her kids all the time. It's her first response to everything. Her kids have yet to hear a word she's ever said.

Jonathan Fuller| 1.20.11 @ 7:14AM

Ben,
Setting and enforcing high expectations is the most loving parenting style, even if it seems painful at the time. I think everyone who has weighed in on Professor Chua's article, including Mrs. Waldman and you probably agree with this point. Professor Chua's article and book are quite self-deprecating, and the book describes an inner journey in her parenting style. I don't think she advocates emotional abuse, even if she, in frustration, may have practiced it in weak moments.
Actually, in contrast to your observation, I don't know any accomplished adults whose parents didn't demand a lot of them. Iron discipline is the foundation of all human achievement. Cf. Malcolm Gladwell's book, "Outliers".

Melvin| 1.20.11 @ 7:26AM

Some times taking a chunk out of one's offspring's ass reinforces certain points of life. There has to be a balance. Fear has to be replaced with discussion and reasoning. You can't reason with a two year old, like you do with a twenty-two year old, and I have seen many a parent try this and many a parent fail.
Look about us people, we have multitudes of self-centered foul mouthed, demanding adolescents who look more like street walkers, and thugs, than as some would say well adjusted courteous children.
My parents were far from perfect, but they taught me hard work, staying married to the same woman for life, and treating others like I wanted to be treated. And yes sometimes in dealing with a young know-it-all they had to get knee deep in my ass to see the errors in my ways.

The Big E| 1.20.11 @ 11:45AM

You know, when I was fifteen years old, it was amazing what idiots my parents were. They didn't know anything. By the time I was twenty-five, they were starting to catch on, and by the time I was thirty-five they were two of the smartest people I had ever known.

Isn't it amazing how much they learned over those twenty years?

Occam's Tool| 1.20.11 @ 2:00PM

Dear The Big E,

that doesn't work so well when your parents are Liberals. I got away from my folks as fast as I could, and never went back. I specifically note annoying things they did, and strongly endeavor not to do it with my kids.

The Big E| 1.20.11 @ 3:19PM

Admittedly, I didn't suffer from that particular impairment.

Cabbage| 1.21.11 @ 4:48PM

When I was fifteen I thought my parents were intelligent for the most part.
Thirteen years later I realized they were the biggest idiots around.

Gary| 1.20.11 @ 7:28AM

When our daughter was a little girl she participated in a local piano competition. So, there we were, sitting in the audience, watching a parade of little Chinese girls blow us all away. Their performances were wonderful. They were cute as could be with each one wearing a beautiful party dress. Now, unless we’re playing according to feel-good Rules for Liberals, there is usually only one winner in any competition. After the winner in each category was announced and parents were mingling after the competition, my wife and I noticed these Chinese mothers (screaming bitches to the last one) reading out their cute little daughters because they didn’t win. Our jaws dropped. Only one thing came immediately to mind: child abuse. We felt sorry for every one of those brilliant little piano players who had to go back home with criminally-negligent parents. We Anglos retreated in horror.

Curtis Rasmussen| 1.20.11 @ 3:44PM

My wife pushes my daughter to the point that I begin to question the grueling work. I always ask her if the work is too much, and although she doesn't always like it, my kid understands that it takes effort and sacrifice to win.

She genuinely enjoys competing and hanging out with friends and competitors along with seeing the world. Later in life, she will cherish the memories of her time as national champion.

LaaneyB| 1.20.11 @ 7:29AM

Even the greatest fool know that praise encourages and all living things turn toward the warmth of the sun. Like your mother always said, "You can catch more flies with honey..."

skedaddle| 1.20.11 @ 7:38AM

Try this mental exercise: insert dad instead of mom as the hovering, screaming, berating parent. I had a friend whose dad acted like Professor Chua and the neighborhood rightly thought of him as a bully and tyrant. Most of that dad's 12 kids did well but they all hate him and have very little to do with him. His kids knew that he wanted the best for them but they never felt he loved them. Everything in moderation is the key.

Melvin| 1.20.11 @ 7:47AM

Bingo, the elusive, but attainable balance.

Charles Dennison| 1.20.11 @ 7:47AM

The whole "Tiger Mother" issue is a smokescreen. Please see it for what it is, just another tactic to incite the masses that will cause any parent that employs an even slightly perceived strict routine with their children to be branded as abusive. The goal is to allow state control over families, and remove parental discernment. The use of obviously horrendous examples is only to condition people to permit overt government intrusion. I realize there ARE terrible parents, I am not downplaying that fact. I am simply saying all the hoopla over this ingrate has a more sinister motive.

PJ| 1.20.11 @ 8:04AM

I don't think there's a sinister motive here unless you think Chinese culture has sinister tendencies. Chinese parents have been doing this for generations. In the old country, their children were their meal ticket during the golden years. So it makes sense to for these parents to want a successful child--------- more success equals more creature comforts during the parents' old age.

Where did this successful Chinese-American learn this nonsense? Not from her parents according to the article.

scythe| 1.20.11 @ 8:23AM

Even in today's climate, that sounds a bit far fetched. Hopefully? What probably is happening is another "ethnic", in this case a "Chinese" mother, is touting the superiority of her culture and we average schlub Americans are supposed to bow down in wonder that we have been once again, shown up by someone who is not American (read Caucasian) in their approach to child rearing. As I read the original article, I was reminded of how this "superior" culture STEALS inventions and ideas from other cultures, has to be monitored in case its exports wind up killing people and all living things (remember the pet food killing people's pets?) and all the atrocities coming from this co-called enlightened way of looking at the world. In fact after the first waves of deaths was reported several years back, there was much discussion about the absence of traditional "morality" in that vaunted land of the Far East, an essential component of successful capitalism. In the thousands of years of life on earth, remind me just exactly what the Chinese have contributed to the well being of civilizations here on earth? The Chinese Tiger Mom is lambasting her daughters to learn on instruments invented in the Western World, to play the glorious music of the West, and to do it all in a country whose foundations were developed from thousands of years of Western thought and philosophy. Notice she ain't doing this in ...China. She wants them to be perfect so they can succeed in....America, after they get into good schools..in America...and then go on to live a fruitful and successful life in..America. As a matter of fact, didn't she say she had TWO daughters? Back in the old country, she would have had to have aborted one of them, and most likely, if she were typical, having determined she was pregnant with a female, would have elected to suction that little problem away and hope for a male child. That she has the ability to have more than one child, do what she is doing, and then lecture the rest of us about how wonderful she is can only be attributed to the wonderful country she is living in, which incidentally, has nothing to do with anything Chinese (at the moment). Which is why the irony of it all is so hilarious. Good luck Tiger Mom. Back in Red China you might be hiding your second daughter in some rice paddy in the back of nowhere just to escape the "authorities".

Taxpayer| 1.20.11 @ 2:39PM

Word. As a college English instructor, I have to teach Chinese students not to plagiarize. The concept of "giving credit where credit is due" is completely new to most of them.

Bonnie| 1.20.11 @ 8:25AM

First of all, a man has no right to comment on "mothering styles." Men have no clue what they are talking about so should just keep out of this. We all know mothers who let their children raise themselves, never expect anything from them and shield them from (deserved) criticism. Let me point to one, Jared Loughner's mother, who cries for herself and wonders what she did wrong? What she did wrong could fill a book on bad mothering.

Ted| 1.20.11 @ 10:02AM

So I assume you keep any comments about fathering styles to yourself?

Sheila| 1.20.11 @ 10:06AM

Straight from Bonnie's lips: why women should be denied the franchise. " . . . a man has no right to comment" on how his children are raised; a man has no right to protest if his child is aborted; a man has no right . . . . ad nauseam. I'm dreadfully old fashioned - when it comes to family matters, I believe responsibilities come before purported "rights." Decline and fall - quickly please.

Chuck| 1.20.11 @ 10:13AM

The usual mothering style I see consist mainly of making it through the next hour. I congratulate those mommies who are weary and yet can give their children a tase of warm nurturing love.

missbosslady| 1.20.11 @ 10:30AM

Bonnie,

You can't be serious. Men have no right to comment on the 'mothering' of their own children?

Is there a Mr. Bonnie?

I find your statement an indictment of the "women's movement".

Poor girl, you've come to believe that our counterpart, glorious men, are nothing more than the providers of sperm. Sad. I hope that you aren't raising any sons, as it must be detrimental to a boy when his mother thinks so little of his gender.

This leads me to one of my big societal beefs. The bashing of the American male.

Ladies, our men will be exactly what we expect them to be. So, you must realize that if you are displeased with men you have only yourself to blame. I have watched, for decades, the diminshment of our respect for our men and ultimately our expectations.

Feminism has convinced too many women that they have little or no need for men and too many men are happy not to be needed, this leaves our children wanting.

Myself, I adore men, always have. I revel in all that makes him different from me and marvel at the mystery. I feel quite certain that my attiude has had a positive effect on my well-adjusted, beautiful son, he's going to make some lucky woman very happy one day.

Steve A| 1.20.11 @ 10:46AM

Bonnie, You sound like just such a gem of a babe. Let me get this straight. If my spouse ignores my children, never expects anything from them & shields them from deserved criticism or maybe burns them with cigarettes, I should just shut up as I am lacking a vagina. Wow. You are such a deep thinker. Oh, also. Nice to know you have all the details on Loughner's Mom's parenting experience.

Occam's Tool| 1.20.11 @ 2:12PM

Dear Bonnie,

My job includes being a mandated reporter for child abuse for moms. I have a lot to comment on regarding "mothering styles." I fix the pathological moms or arrange for the State to intrude, if necessary. I have quite a bit of a clue on this, ma'am.

Ray| 1.20.11 @ 2:55PM

"Men have no clue what they are talking about so should just keep out of this."

Are you telling me that all men ether never had a mother or that they don't remember how their mother treated them and how she AFFECTED them throughout their childhood?

I don't know about you, but I remember how my mother helped to raise me into an adult. I would say that gives me far more than just a "clue" about "motherhood."

Taxpayer| 1.20.11 @ 2:59PM

You're the one who has no clue. I learned how to be a mother from my husband. When our daughter was born, it was he who figured out what her cries meant and how to relate to her. I was the one who had to consult a book. He was the one who helped me hold firm against her temper tantrums so she would properly learn the reality of "no." He also changed diapers, tended her in the sick room (barf-bucket duty), gave her baths, fed her, etc. He's a great dad, too--he does all the right things dads should do for their kids. Our daughter today is a 12-year-old who does just as well in school as her Chinese classmates--but she's a helluva lot happier. I'd say my husband has done pretty damn well at mothering.

So take your idiotic blanket statement and buzz off.

VAcogito| 1.20.11 @ 3:15PM

So if you have no experience in something you can have no opinion???? oh yah, lets blame the mom again for everything.

Bea| 2.11.11 @ 4:52AM

Can't let this go. The antique idea that mental illness is caused by bad mothering has been debunked by neuroscience for some time, despite British journal article abstract above. Psychosis tends to surface in early adult years because it is at that point that brain is almost finished developing (brain mature on average at 26) and malfunctioning is established. Glaringly obvious fault in the whole Loughner thing is the sheriff's failure to take steps to preserve peace and safety of community by using authority to get Loughner treatment (including confinement if required).

Bob Miller| 1.20.11 @ 8:26AM

This short but great book presents a classical Jewish perspective on child-rearing:

http://www.amazon.com/Planting.....1583304029

scythe| 1.20.11 @ 8:42AM

Planning and Raising a...Jewish Child? Are the rest of us just...chopped liver? LOL

Bob Miller| 1.20.11 @ 11:51AM

The author was advising Jews about Judaism. Others can pick out useful info but are not the target audience.

Lord Howard Hurts| 1.20.11 @ 8:34AM

Thinkers are independent, self starters, and leaders. Reality...how many leaders do we really need? Are we not a nation of too many leaders and not enough followers? Could the pyramids have been built if there had not been an abundance of followers? We may not like the way the Chinese think (and don't give me grief because I stereotype), but by using their "cultural method", they will rule the world. One must remember that all reality is relative. The word Success means different things to different persons. There is no universal meaning or understanding for Success. With its massive population of well disciplined followers, China will write the rule book. The only way America can survive is to fight "fire with fire." But alas, Americans love their couches, golf, football, and food, and are thus destined to become a small footnote in history. Lord Howard Hurts

KS| 1.20.11 @ 8:50AM

Ayelet Waldman is married to writer (and Pulitzer Prize winner) Michael Chabon.

Seek| 1.20.11 @ 11:15AM

Fascinating. "Wonder Boys" is one of my favorite novels and also a very good film from 2000 starring Michael Douglas.

Fisher Ames| 1.20.11 @ 6:27PM

Chabon is a sentimentalist leftist, which seems to be required of contemporary novelists, and notoriously anti-Zionist.

His wife Ayelet Waldman shares his political opinions, but lacks his literary talent.

Luis| 1.20.11 @ 9:03AM

It's called "sadism".

MikeBee| 1.20.11 @ 9:16AM

Why torture a child over school grades? Not every child will 1) have the same amount of intelligence as other children, or 2) be able to perform well on tests. This does not mean that children who perform poorly in schools will be unsuccessful in life. Allow me to give two real life examples: myself and my childhood best friend.

I was the typical "A" student, playing the "school" game very well, taking tests well, at the top of my class always. My friend, Paul, would usually get either "C"s or low "B"s in school. During high school, Paul loved nothing better than to finish his homework, and get to work on his VW Beetle, trying to make it go faster. During high school, I studied hard and got straight "A"s.

Today, Paul has made a living for himself as an entrepreneur. He owns a company which makes parts for cars which will retro those cars for the drag racing circuit. In other words, he is still doing what he loves -- making cars go faster. He does very well, owning a condo overlooking the Pacific Ocean.

I, on the other hand, work hard as an accountant, usually as the Controller of someone else's company. Over the past ten years, I have been sold out of my job three times, and have lost two other jobs due to financial stress at the firm. This is largely due to the fact that I live in Southeast Michigan, which has been in a depression for the past ten years.

But, my point is that, while I (the "A" student) have made a decent living for myself, my friend with the lower grades has far surpassed me in being successful in life. People, good grades are only about 50% of what it takes to be successful in life. The other 50% is largely made up of strong social skills (Paul was far superior to me in this realm), persistence, and being in the right place at the right time. Being an "A" student in state-run schools is not at all a guarantor of success in life. Children should be encouraged to be the best that they can be. But, if your child has average intelligence, at best, he may still be an immense success in life.

scythe| 1.20.11 @ 9:26AM

In my experience, those who show a mechanical aptitude, especially early in life, are not of average intelligence. Had a friend once who bought a Porsche, burned in a fire, sunk two feet in mud. Had it hauled out, and began to restore it. In less than a year you would be hard pressed to think it hadn't just been manufactured. The man was a GENIUS and started tinkering at an early age. Why it is that we tend to think that someone who works with his hands is "average"? This friends was an average student, wasn't particularly fond of school and was happy to escape from High School. Have great respect for someone who can create with their hands, can fix things, can figure out how things work and improve them. This country wasn't built by accountants. Their function is to account for the revenue created by others.

Sheila| 1.20.11 @ 10:08AM

Scythe - your comment is the only rational, logical, and accurate one on this entire, disgusting thread. Kudos.

VAcogito| 1.20.11 @ 3:25PM

Amen to this! What about being a good person. The most important thing I attempted to impart to my kids was to grow into responsible adults who could think rationally for themselves. Still working on that, yet I like my kids better, and think they are more interesting than kids whose parents are always talking about what a genius little billy or susie is and how wonderfully they play whatever instrument. I have kids that both excel academically and are pretty average. But they are all interesting (and have good senses of humor, as well as a sense of what is truly important in this life). I would hate to be the Tiger Mom's child.

GavInTucson| 1.21.11 @ 1:16AM

I'll give you two other examples of your friend: Rush Limbaugh and Bill Gates.

I don't think anyone would disagree that they've been enormously successful, doing what they love, even though they were mediocre students. One never went to college, and the other dropped out.

JimH| 1.20.11 @ 9:30AM

I think some of this stems from differing cultural back rounds. In the west we educate our children because we love them and want them to succeed. In much of Asia, people have children in order to have someone take care of them in their old age. So the richer your children the better retirement you will have.

KyMouse| 1.20.11 @ 9:43AM

Ben writes, "Screaming at children over their grades, especially to the point of the child's tears, is child abuse, pure and simple...It is a crushing, scarring, disastrous experience for the child."

When a cousin of mine was a third grader in a small school, one teacher encouraged her students to stand around her desk while she graded papers. My little cousin wasn't good at math, and when math papers were being graded, the students called out "90 -- 85 -- 80" and so on as points were taken off for his mistakes.

After a while, he started having stomach problems before going to school. When he finally told his parents about the humiliating way his point deductions were recited by the chorus, they talked with other parents and found out that several other pupils had received the same treatment. The teacher was fired.

My young cousin flunked an entire year later on (eighth grade, I think), but his parents and a good psychologist eventually helped him see his true potential. He earned a scholarship in graduate school to study in Europe for a semester, and has turned out to be a fine young man -- no thanks to that teacher.

Richard Baker| 1.20.11 @ 9:43AM

I disagree with Ben, respectfully. It's not conformity but performance which these women seek. As an example, my wife's stepmother is Korean and had four children when she married my Father-in-law. The kids, who were 13 at the oldest, showed up on a Friday and were in an Iowa school on Monday and didn't SPEAK English. Regularly, their Mother would sit them down and read them the Riot Act in Korean. All four graduated college and are decidedly not a conformist lot. The Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and Indian parents make it clear to their kids that their job is to get with the program. That's why their kids run rings around most American children who are more into 6-8 hours of video games/day and celebrity worship than studying.

missbosslady| 1.20.11 @ 10:06AM

I have long espoused a "weak mother" theory, in short, weak mothers end up with problem children.

However, there is a big difference between a strong mother and one that bullies their child.

I was raised by a bully. It was painfully obvious that her greatest motivation was not my success, but her perceived success as a parent. The consequence of her appraoch left me to overcome the obstacle of severe low self-esteem. Thankfully I was able to do this, but in making my stand I had to break with my own mother. Not a good situation.

The upside is that I was able to use my understanding of my own situation to my child's advantage.

I am a strong mother.

The strong mother makes her child feel safe and secure, she delivers a concise message that the child can easily understand and follow, she knows when to be tough and when to be compassionate.

The strong mother knows that the well-being of this tiny human being is squarely in the palm of her hands and does not abuse her power in fealty to her own ego.

The strong mother excersises self-control, and all you parents know just how important and how much strength this can require.

The strong mother is not best buddy nor warden, she is something altogether unique and has the important responsiblity of bringing a child to adulthood, at which time she will release her ward upon society.

OLDRAY| 1.20.11 @ 10:08AM

Ben. I agree with you. My daughter, of whom I am very proud, While gaining a phd in History, maintaining her husband's business , home schooled her three children, helped build an 80 foot barn that looks like a ballroom and raised the bost well balanced ,sweet, friendly kids you could imagin. One is graduating Harvard this year and 11 companies are fighting opver him. The younger is a sophome at a great school and they are sponsoring him to deliver a scientific paper at a national convention this spring.. The third ,a beautiful young girl in high school does well at the books ANd has been a star scoccor player.. The former is a high scoring archery scoach ,the second a self tough Chess Master.. All well balanced young people up to date on world affairs with great (conservative for the most part) friends.They were brought with responsible ,but LOVING, attention by their father and mother. One need not be a Tiger mom.

NotALibertarian| 1.20.11 @ 10:13AM

People who want optimum school performance from their kids need to request that their kids' second grade teachers enforce a "Homework Not Done? No Recess Today!" policy. The fire this lights under them -- at an early age -- tends to afix itself very nicely.
Sorry to be so practical as to be off-topic. I just can't get over how much this practice has helped our children.

The Big E| 1.20.11 @ 3:51PM

For the first 3 or 4 years of our daughter's education, my wife and I made it clear to her what we expected, and she delivered. However, by last year, it was becoming obvious that while she was making excellent grades, she wasn't actually learning what she needed to be learning. A series of unfriendly conversations ensued between my wife, myself, certain people who styled themselves "teachers," and an assistant principal who thought our role as parents should be limited to putting our child on the bus and asking no further questions. (He may still think that way, but he'll never be so stupid as to say so out loud again).

This year, when we walked into school to meet our daughter's teachers, my wife promptly volunteered to help out in class every Wednesday, and I came bearing a copy of the required curriculum as outlined by the State Board of Education. (The curriculum looks great on paper, but apparently bears little resemblance to what goes on in the classroom.)

In short, we made it abundantly clear to our daughter's teachers that:
A. We are paying attention to what is being taught, and
B. There will be Hell to pay if you don't do your job.

We're not the most popular parents among the faculty, but our message was received loud and clear, and while the problem has not yet been completely solved, great strides have been made in the right direction. In short, like the children they teach, it appears that teachers also live up (or down) to expectations, and will try to get away with murder when they think your back is turned.

AndaO| 1.20.11 @ 10:20AM

Well, I am torn on this. A little shame can go a long way to getting better results.
When I was a sophomore in high school and feeling way too saucy, I did not do my Latin homework as I should have during the 2nd six weeks grading period. I got a C+. At that time the local paper (published twice a week!) printed out the Honor Roll students. EVERY person in my small church came up to me and said: Anda Lee, I didn't see your name on the Honor Roll. Surely that was a mistake?
I never, ever, ever missed Honor Roll again. Yes, I was ashamed, embarassed, mortified, etc, etc. But that certainly stopped me from going down a sloppy path. And today I have a BS (double major) an MA, MBA and a JD!!!
As a mother, I think my mantra to my four was: I am sorry those other parents don't love their children enough to say "NO"....

Ed| 1.20.11 @ 10:24AM

Real tiger mothers don't whack their cubs around, but they do teach them hunting skills, etc. When their cubs start to play rough, and lion and tiger cubs do play rough, Mom gently restrains them.

Cro-Magnon| 1.20.11 @ 10:26AM

No, Ayelet Waldman was not being cute, and no, her husband was not always around to restrain her. She screamed aplenty, and
her daughter will be all the better for it. In the end, Ms. Waldman will have gained her daughter's love and respect. The father; love and contempt.

Mom| 1.20.11 @ 10:27AM

Here's all you need to know about parenting in exactly 2 minutes and 55 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

Eric Damon| 1.20.11 @ 10:51AM

I heard Rush Limbaugh talking about this article one day last week and was appalled at the way it was being presented as something wonderful. It is certainly not that at all and conservatives should not be falling into the trap of believing that berating children does anything to help them in the long run of their lives. And we should not always poo-poo the idea of building a sense of self esteem into our children.

I am the father of two children, a 15 year old young man and a 7 year old little girl. Both have been presented with the expectations that their behavior and grades be among the best in their respective schools, and for the most part they have been. My son is a sophomore at our local early college high school and serves as vice president of the student body, and has often been chosen to be the student face of the school when meeting with media and the broader community. My daughter has done very well so far, she's just in first grade, but her reading levels and comprehension are well above grade level, as are her math skills. There have been times when I have dropped a verbal hammer on my son because of his grades, but only after meeting with his teachers and hearing them say that his problem was a lack of effort, not of aptitude. But I have never derided them or brow beaten them for getting less than an A if I knew they were giving me an honest effort in getting the best grades they could. What real purpose does that serve?

As for self esteem, one of the problems that I see with the at-risk youth I work with is that many of them lack a true sense of self worth. When a child starts to see himself as worthless or unworthy, that child is headed for problems. It is up to the parents not to fill their children with unrealistic self belief, but to foster in them a sense that they are valuable in and of themselves. And it is also important that parents, unlike the Tiger Mom, make sure their kids understand that their worth is not tied to their grades, their performances on musical instruments or the like, but that they are valued just for being.

Maybe there is some type of benefit to screaming at your kids about their grades or isolating them at home with no opportunities to share time with friends, but for the life of me I cannot see it.

Anommynous| 1.20.11 @ 12:27PM

It's funny, because I'm fairly sure that Rush was less than the model student, and he dropped out of college. But he did find his talent and passion, and he has thrived. What type of treatment did Rush receive from his parents when he brought home his report card?

Steve A| 1.20.11 @ 1:05PM

The single most important factor for the child is knowing they have parents who care. Care about them, care what time they get home, care who they hang out with, care what grades they get. Not to oversimplify, but this is the base of it.

Occam's Tool| 1.20.11 @ 2:14PM

Amen. Set limits, and get the best out of 'em. Let them know they will be loved and that failure is not a crime if they did their best.

Funeral Guy| 1.20.11 @ 11:08AM

I took the time to read most of the comments when the article came out. The hatred of many of the Asian adult children for their Tiger Moms was palpable.

I can't wait to see the cockroach ridden, filthy nursing homes where these bullying old hags will end their days.

Seek| 1.20.11 @ 11:19AM

Asian families very often are depicted in our media as loving, close-knit and "traditional." The truth is a hidden anger roils just beneath the surface. Chinese culture, contra Rush, is something we emulate at our own peril. It's a different civilization -- much to admire, but also much to disdain.

Occam's Tool| 1.20.11 @ 1:53PM

As a former nursing home physician, I can tell you that nursing homes can be selected for both good and bad qualities, listed through CMS.

Stammon| 1.20.11 @ 11:41AM

Ben;
I think your children are lucky to have you as a father.

dac| 1.20.11 @ 11:44AM

For the three prior commenters, the "Seek" troll included: thanks for clarifying why the Chinese (and Koreans, and Japanese) are kicking our asses in every important field of human endeavor.
Rush and Ms. Chua are not perfectly correct, but they are largely correct. There is a limit to what any human can make out of any other human--limits, by the way, that totalitarians like you do not recognize except when it comes to criticizing how a mother raises her own (not yours, not the State's) children. But failing to push your children, who do not know any better than what you as parents teach them, to excel, failing to value excellence, pretending that "it's ok that you failed" no matter what the reason, is a recipe for civilizational decline and slavery to those to follow the harder path. The Chinese know this, witness Hu Jintao's treatment of Il Duce Negro as his bitch--which he is. What battle would you rather fight with your self-esteem champions rather than the offspring of the tiger mothers? Assuming some minimal level of creativity and individuality (which Chinese communists try to beat down, but which Chinese people everywhere else have plenty of), none of which is foreclosed by Chua's parenting style, I'll take the offspring of the latter in any fight over anything, anywhere, at any time in human history.
You are cowards and losers--you may well be the last to admit this, I understand. The winners will, for the most part, follow Chua's path and raise serious people who will not be afraid to stand up and fight real totalitarians like yourselves.

Seek| 1.20.11 @ 2:28PM

The idea that refusing to countenance the style of an abuser constitutes an embrace of offspring failure is preposterous, a straw man masquerading as an argument. Emotional abuse on kids can take a terrible toll, even on the achievers among them. And it is the abuser, not the person who stands up to one, who is the coward and totalitarian, seeing their children as empty vessels through they can live vicariously.

It's true: Self-esteem, like any useful concept, is prone to distortions. But one doesn't junk it in favor of a model of parenting that most Americans, including conservatives (like me), find repellent. You might reflect on that, pal, before you deem me a liberal troll.

Bea| 2.11.11 @ 5:09AM

Drought, famine, hyperinflation, forced removal of large numbers of people from their homes for "show cities", pollution--if y'all read more international news, you'd find less to praise in other countries; you know what we do wrong because we do it in the open and are the quickest people in the world to criticize ourselves. No other country is so quick to blame itself for shortcomings--mostly other countries blame us for their failures.

Bloefeld| 1.20.11 @ 11:56AM

There is the middle road for parenting. Had my parents been more strict on the home work front, I would have done better at school (wouldn't have hurt had they listened to the diagnosis of ADHD).

Most kids just need some supervision at home work and some help developing the necessary strategies for them to do the best they can.

What dragon lady is missing is that if here child just didn't have the mental capacity for A+ grades, then all of the yelling or hitting in the world isn't going to get her anywhere. Ya can't beat the bell-curve. The real sad but true thing about kid's grades is that if your kid is 1 standard deviation on the high side of the mean he should do a lot better than the kid on the opposite side of the mean.

Bloefeld

Otis R. Needleman| 1.20.11 @ 12:11PM

I read Mrs. Chua's and Mrs. Waldman's articles. I feel sorry for Mrs. Chua's children, her husband, and her students. My guess is that Mrs. Chua has told her kids something to the effect that "if you don't do X or Y, or if you aren't the best, I won't love you". Mrs. Chua seems intent on making her kids live HER life, and in the end it won't work. All I have ever asked from my kids is that they give their best effort. All I want is for them to be happy and able to support themselves. And, for what it's worth, for eight years I was both father and mother to my children. Don't hate Amy Chua. Pity her. And as far as a previous poster saying Japan, Korea and China are kicking our asses, think again. Everything we're hearing about China now we heard about Japan twenty-five years ago. China has problems we don't ever want to have. Korea does well but it is small and we helped them build up. Also, when Korean reunification comes they're going to have one hell of a mess on their hands. No, the USA will get through this and be better than ever.

Jung Adler| 1.20.11 @ 12:13PM

First: Leave Lochner out of it! His parents were not the cause except that they passed on the genes for schitzophrenia. Having expectations,setting priorities and drawing boundries is not child abuse--it's parenting. Breaking fingers, tantrums etc IS abuse. Teaching the discipline necessary for success is good--but not everybody needs a PhD or Concert career.

Dai Alanye| 1.20.11 @ 1:11PM

Insofar as Loughner is concerned, JungAdler is misleading. Yes, Loughner's genes came from his parents, yet his problem isn't simply schizophrenia but a cruel, narcissistic disposition. Most schizophrenics are "average" albeit prone to bizarre acts. Plenty of them are kind, loving but confused individuals, disabled by a major brain sickness.

Had Loughner not been schizophrenic his basic personality is such that he quite possibly would have turned to crime or politics, or become a "Chinese parent."

Bea| 2.11.11 @ 5:14AM

Not sure what schizophrenics you know, but unmedicated, in the grip of delusions, even kind loving people can do amazing harm. No reason to infer bad parenting is involved. Bad law enforcement demonstrably was.

Richard Baker| 1.20.11 @ 12:46PM

Otis:
I made clear in my post that I was referring to kids in America and the success of these Asian children in school in AMERICA. Maybe you should read my post again and this time open your eyes. Within our country these Asian kids excel and are making the white, black, and Latino kids look bad. Can't have that, now can we?

Wayne | 1.20.11 @ 1:12PM

This issue in my opinion is child abuse. It comes in many forms, but it amounts to putting a child into a position where he or she suffers.

What kind of child abuse do we see in this country? We have babies killed before they are born. We have states taking children away from their parents. We have states that force 5 and 6 year olds not ready for the structure life of school forced into school anyway. I remember my 1st grade teacher jerking my head up and down asking "why can't I be like the girls." I also remember having to go to swim class, despite being allergic to chlorine, only to flunk latin (the class after swim class). We pass kids along through school who are illiterate and semi-illiterate. We tell kids in grammar school that they must be guy if they prefer friends of the same sex. We have some 50 percent of school aged children on legal and illegal drugs. We force kids to go to college to have any kind of career, charge them huge tuitions, then make them pay student loans for 20 years, and don't have jobs for them when they graduate. (They have gone to China, where the Tiger Moms have produced hard working competitors).

I would say US culture has never been more abusive to children. Oh, yes, they now are born 40,000 dollars in debt.

Lee| 1.20.11 @ 1:38PM

Ben, your comments remind us of the duty to clearly speak out when witnessing reprehensible behavior.

Professor Chua is a mere reincarnation of Bull Meechum, the authoritarian Marine Corps fighter pilot and family patriarch memorialized in the 1979 film The Great Santini. This style of parenting, which crosses over cultural and ethnic lines, is simple bullying – the exertion of unchecked authority and unpredictable moods to control and dominate powerless and dependent humans. No excuse exists for this behavior – a family is a refuge and not a gulag.

Far too much parenting in highly credentialed, upper middle class America follows variations of the “Tiger Mother” model. If you desire to push back against this culture, please focus on developing the content of your child’s character. Also encourage and guide them to follow their, and not necessarily your, interests and talents. Genuine success involves becoming a “good man” or a “good woman” – a foreign concept to this overachieving, credentialed but greatly unhappy slice of America.

Occam's Tool| 1.20.11 @ 1:48PM

I have two children, age 7, both adopted. I expect them to try hard in school (they're home schooled), but I love them all the time and tell them so. I expect them to behave well in public, and generally, they do.

They know Daddy's a doctor, and they see how hard I work. I expect that they will be happy and productive.

My parents did not push me academically; I pushed myself. I knew that one of my cousins (who now is knighted) was a doctor with post graduate certifications in pathology and neurology from Cambridge in Britain. He was also a star in the Beyond the Fringe comedy troupe with Dudley Moore and Peter Cook. I knew other members of my family were outstanding physicians as well. Two of my younger cousins are also MDs from my example.

I pushed myself, arranged for my own $30,000 plus of scholarships (the $12,000 one that I won in 1980 is now worth $112,000 for full tuition at TCU in 2011), got accepted into two US medical schools, and trained in psychiatry at UCLA. I was an MD at age 25.

Parents do not need to torture kids to achieve. Ben's dad was a Consultant to RN---the example was set.

Jews encourage their children to study, traditionally, by placing honey on the blackboard. Encouragement and support do better than screaming. Besides, my parents could never have been as demanding to me as I was to myself. I tell my kids to work hard and do what they want to do; that anything worthwhile needs to be worked hard for. They're doing well so far.

Richard Baker| 1.20.11 @ 2:29PM

Lee:
Pat Conroy, who wrote the book "The Great Santini", has changed his opinion of his Father as time as passed. His Dad was hardcore, sure, but his son seems to realize that there was a method to his madness. I suggest you read his eulogy of Santini which is on the net.

Richard Baker| 1.20.11 @ 2:43PM

Lee:
Here's the eulogy and Pat's response to well-wishers, www.skygod.com/quotes/greatsantini.

Flee| 1.20.11 @ 3:34PM

I think the point of Amy Chua's book and excerpt is that this style of parenting has been used with great success in China and for her in America. While I don't know that I support all of the strict adherence to the rules she lays out, there is a lot to be said for instilling discipline in our children rather than an expectancy that being average is okay. My wife is Chinese and takes care of a lot of the daily rearing of our 5 year old and she agrees with a lot of the concepts espoused in the article. However, she is unwilling to commit to such a strict routine for our boy and I feel a combination of traditional American rearing and Chinese influences will succeed the best. He is already fluent in Mandarin and speaks English pretty well too at 5. I think its a leg up on his classmates already. Now I hear he wants to play the violin. I rolled my eyes when I heard that because I know the dedication it takes to master an instrument from my trumpet playing days. It will be a learning experience for all of us. I also don't see that yelling at the child makes it any better. We can instill the discipline necessary to succeed without screaming at them. No one, especially a child, seems likely to do better when screamed at.

Taxpayer| 1.20.11 @ 3:34PM

My parents were polar opposites in their parenting styles (thus their marriage didn't last), but the one thing they agreed on was that our education was the absolute priority and must be taken seriously. They set the expectations for us not with browbeating and super-pre-schooling, but by telling us that our job as kids was to get an education. No one ever had to prod us to do our homework or to finish projects by a certain date. And they never, EVER "hovered." We were expected to do the work ourselves, seek help from the teacher, and work our hineys off to get it right. They were also wise enough to know that not getting all A's isn't the end of the world. But we had to thoroughly explain why we got anything less than a B, and tell how we planned to improve the grade. (That was much more effective than grounding or swatting!)

So from a young age, we "owned" our education. It was our responsibility, and we got the right amount of support along the way. My sister is a scientist, and I'm a college instructor. Not too bad, Mom and Dad!

Randy Wyles| 1.20.11 @ 3:50PM

I'm reminded of the Bill Withers song "Grandma's Hands" where, though he's singing about his dear grandmother, you understand the loving care of the parent/guardian from the perspective of a little boy's remembering the "hands" that loved him - the kind of hands all parents should have for their children:

Grandma's Hands
by Bill Withers

Grandma's hands
Clapped in church on Sunday morning
Grandma's hands
Played a tambourine so well
Grandma's hands
Used to issue out a warning
She'd say, "Billy don't you run so fast
Might fall on a piece of glass
"Might be snakes there in that grass"
Grandma's hands

Grandma's hands
Soothed a local unwed mother
Grandma's hands
Used to ache sometimes and swell
Grandma's hands
Used to lift her face and tell her,
"Baby, Grandma understands
That you really love that man
Put yourself in Jesus hands"
Grandma's hands

Grandma's hands
Used to hand me piece of candy
Grandma's hands
Picked me up each time I fell
Grandma's hands
Boy, they really came in handy
She'd say, "Matty don' you whip that boy
What you want to spank him for?
He didn't drop no apple core"
But I don't have Grandma anymore

If I get to Heaven I'll look for
Grandma's hands

Taxpayer| 1.20.11 @ 10:01PM

What a lovely song.

Mark MacDonald| 1.20.11 @ 4:25PM

Thank you Ben for your wise, kind, and insightful comments. As a high school English teacher I occasionally encountered such parents. Their children were without exception overly anxious and seldom happy. My own parents encouraged me to get good grades and helped me when I was having trouble. When I went to college, my father's advice was to find what I loved and give it everything I had. I became a teacher and have never regretted the choice.

Jeamar37| 1.20.11 @ 5:56PM

Ask you own physician, dentist, lawyer, plumber, carpenter or hair dresser if he/she went to a public school (or what is continuously referred to by "AS" online reader as "government" schools)? I'll be the great majority of them unlike, apparently "AS" fans who apparently all are adults who attended private schools and colleges or were home schooled. As a retired public school teacher I will attest to the miserable students some schools are turning out. At the same time the very same schools are also graduating exceptionally gifted students who go on to become well functioning members of society.
My own middle-aged children were both educated in public schools and universities and both are well employed, tax paying citizens.

Occam's Tool| 1.20.11 @ 6:40PM

Hillary Rodham Clinton and I attended the same public high school about two decades apart (she graduated from a sister school). ALL of my teachers had Doctorates or Master's in their fields of instruction, except PE. I don't see that today.

My kids are home schooled.

Jeamar37| 1.20.11 @ 5:57PM

Please pardon the lack of sufficient proof reading.

Curtis Rasmussen| 1.20.11 @ 6:36PM

Habitual drunken ware? No thank you, spammerdouche ESL.

Matthew A. Sawtell| 1.20.11 @ 7:19PM

I was wondering how far that hack piece of a review from a "respected" news source was going to go. For those that are curious to the "know the rest of the story", I would advise checking the following article at the Shanghai Scrap website:

http://shanghaiscrap.com/?p=6247

Bottom Line - the "review" in the WSJ was anything but - and the author and publisher are equally guilty not nipping this 'tempest in a teacup'.

Jeamar37| 1.20.11 @ 7:21PM

"Ocam" and Hillary Clinton must have lived in an excellent and prosperous school district to have all of his teachers possess Master and PhD degrees. I graduated public high school in the 50's and my children graduated in the late 70s. I was totally unaware of my teachers' accomplishments as a high school student. I believe the majority of my children's teachers had master degrees or were working on them. Advanced education means advancing on the pay scale, and in this state most public school high school teachers who have PhDs are in the administrative levels--whether that is good or bad, I leave up to your personal opinion.

DAve| 1.20.11 @ 7:41PM

The big mistake elites and those who raised in wealthy families make is to think that most families have the resources and supportive environment that they themselves had and grew up with. This seems to be an example of that.
I'm not condoning screaming just nervous about labeling the few tools many parents have at their disposal to raise children as deficient or "child abuse".
Must be wonderful to raise children to self-actualize... most parents struggle to attain basic levels of reading, writing, and calculation...

PCC| 1.20.11 @ 7:50PM

Does Ben Stein really believe that parents who scold their children to the point of tears should be in prison? Hard to take him seriously on this one.

Many of our most "successful" modern icons were the result of traumatic childhoods, e.g., Reagan's and Clinton's fathers were dangerous drunks, Larry Ellison and Steve Jobs were orphans, Andy Grove was a child refugee, etc.

I'm not wishing those circumstances on anyone, but maybe it's true that "tough times make tough people".

PACoug| 1.20.11 @ 9:56PM

I LOVE Ben Stein, mostly because he's just such a cool dude regardless of whether he agrees or disagrees with you on something. He's been a great neighbor to my parents' family up on Lake Pend Oreille.

But I gotta disagree here. This is not necessarily browbeating. High expectations sometimes must be backed up with stringent requirements.

I'm not Chinese; mostly Scottish with some Norwegian and German/Swiss/Dutch (Amish) in there, ancestors on both sides American back to the 1840s or earlier.

Very strong farming background. Both parents have bachelors degrees; six kids.

And each of us got straight A's in a decent small town public school in Idaho. When we got home from school, it was practice time--each of us six kids had piano lessons and one other instrument of our choice. We were required to practice an hour per day on each instrument so that we could achieve advanced proficiency at an early age. Once we'd each reached a level of proficiency that would allow us to perform gracefully in public (we also were blessed with hereditary musical talent and perfect pitch) we were allowed to quit if we wished--to pursue other avenues to our hearts' content. I've always been grateful for that background, though I resented it at the time.

I kept playing the guitar, and am a competent pianist. My younger brother, who was great on the piano by 9th grade, decided to emphasize his passion for baseball and basketball. He wasn't all-state in either sport, but loved every minute of it. He still has good sax and piano skills and is a good pickup player and one of the longest hitters on his softball team.

Other brother became a vocal arranger and leader of a great-sounding a capella group in college while earning his engineering degree. Sister was the top high school pianist in the state all through high school, earned academic (not piano) scholarships that paid her way through college and is now a college piano instructor whose husband is the associate dean of fine arts at the school and director of its piano department.

Another sister is a great pianist who dropped the flute the day she got her high school diploma. She isn't a concert pianist like her younger sister, but she plays popular piano (think David Lanz or Liz Story) with an emotional fine touch that endears her to fellow players when she works in a group. She's good at what she does.

All six of us have bachelor degrees. Two have masters. One (the concert pianist) has a doctorate.

And we all love to play and sing music. It's not fun when you're not any good at it, but thanks to the 'tyranny' of our parents, we achieved a level of competence early on that let us develop and refine our enjoyment of music for our entire lives. It has blessed our own children. My child has just chosen the trumpet to complement her piano studies. My athlete brother has insisted his two children play the piano and one other instrument from age six through middle school, and hopes they continue their musical study even though he did not.

Pianist chick has five kids in advanced stages of musical training--though she also indulges their athletic enthusiasms. She was a great athlete but decided to use her three hours each day after school developing excellence at the piano. Many coaches where chagrined they could not entice her onto their teams.

So if her kids want to dance, or play sports, or whatever pursuit makes them happy, she searches for opportunities for them. But they still need to practice hard at the pursuits they have chosen.

My parents will celebrate their fiftieth wedding anniversary in 2 years. We have already set aside the local high school auditorium for the concert. They have 42 grandchildren, all of whom play at least one instrument, and many of whom have achieved advanced levels of proficiency. Everyone gets a turn on stage; parents, children, the whole posterity. And the finale will be a big group sing to thank our parents for the tyranny of preparation for life they gave us, which set us free.

Ben may have experienced something different in his own life--Jewish families are also known to have very high expectations of their children and parents who are willing to be the 'bad guy' when the situation calls for it. Perhaps his parents were the 'bad guy' all the time and never the good guy.

My parents were not like that. They've always been filled with excitement for life, always had some outstanding music playing on the stereo, always participated in artistic pursuits, always had great academic expectations, but also always willing to go without, driving old beater cars to pay for all those lessons, having old, outdated bathrooms and cabinetry because investing every dime in six children left them with virtually nothing extra to fix up the house.

Oh, their house looks GREAT now. I almost don't recognize it. But back then there just wasn't any extra for fancy trips, remodeling, nice vehicles, brand-name clothes, whatever. But they always had time for us, always came to the game or the concert or the play.

I'll always be grateful for their priorities, and my own life is modeled on theirs. I hope my nine-year-old picks up enough trumpet to play a nice number when the 50th anniversary show comes around.

I'll accompany her on the piano. Thanks, Mom, for pushing me through the difficult part so my love of it could then take over later on.

I don't know if that even compares to the Chinese mothers out there. Probably not. But it is a family legacy I hope all my siblings continue.

PACoug| 1.20.11 @ 10:01PM

Um, that should read "24 grandchildren," not "42 grandchildren." That would be quite a trick.

Bea| 2.11.11 @ 5:20AM

"Decent small town school" is key.

AKGRAMPS| 1.20.11 @ 10:59PM

my mother did not "scream", she would speak softly; twice. Then came corporal punishment; a swat on the tush, or multiple swats if warranted.
Her 9 children are normal, not high achievers, but productive members of society. Drill Sergeant "in your face" screaming may work in the Marine Corps, but is hardly conducive to creating self esteem in children.
Basic human (and professional Human Resources management) has a very simple, tried and true rule: praise in public, discipline in private.
Humiliation is the tool of the weak and lazy.
Tiger mom, my butt, she's a bully. (p.s. i will stack my mother's "cojones" up against any Tiger Mom.

Capt G| 1.21.11 @ 12:29AM

I'm surprised by the number of respondents who favor the "self esteem" model that has failed so spectacularly in our public schools.

Focusing on parental screaming and other "abuse" is an intentional distraction from the real issue; parents know far better what their children are capable of than do those children themselves. The lesson Mr. Stein and others seem to be communicating is that parents must earn their children's love and respect. That's horse pucky.
"Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain." I Cor. 9:24 A favorite verse of Vince Lombardi who believed that, " football is like life - it requires perseverance, self-denial, hard work, sacrifice, dedication and respect for authority".
Lombardi was a pushy parent to his players and indeed many of them cite him as a greater influence on their lives than their own parents. He was a master psychologist and he did not treat all his players the same. Some he screamed at, some he cajoled, and some he just offered just a pointed sigh. But about the goal there was commonness of purpose. "Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

"The leader can never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."

Lombardi, long out of style, has returned to a certain new-found respect. In the seventies he came to be viewed as the epitome of the abusive coach. It should be noted that his players, almost without exception, say that they loved him. One is wont to say that, while he loved his father immensely, he thought of his father every week, but there was not a day he did not think of Vince Lombardi. We honor, revere, respect and love those who teach us how to achieve our goals and the proper use and extent of our human will.

Augusta| 1.21.11 @ 6:28AM

Not to worry Ben, the youth in America are NOT stressed-out over-achievers, but mainly braying morons like Snookie. Although Tiger Mom goes too far, Most American parents, or rather single mothers, are the opposite extreme. Our schools are institutions of PC, our cultural morality non-existent, and so we have obscenely high rates of teen pregnancy, welfare dependence, drug use, illegitimacy, illiteracy and drop-outs - while maintaining those internationally embarrassing low performance scores in Math, English and Science. Boys are raised to be weak and girls are raised to be selfish; both are vapid and lazy. And then there's illegal immigration... augh! What's wrong with our educational system is what's wrong with modern liberalism. Funny how every consequence we warn the Left about always comes true. It's clean up time folks.

tnxplant| 1.21.11 @ 8:55AM

Is there an ultimate definition of success that is the same for everyone?

Is there an ultimate set of parenting rules that is best for every parent/child combination?

Is there a best way to bring up a child to be self-motivated instead of externally motivated?

Is being a driven Type A achiever with awards, prizes, and accolades the ultimate good?

Wisdom is essential to knowing when to be hard and when to be soft with a child.

Vermont Mom| 1.21.11 @ 10:44AM

Thank you, Ben Stein. I am a mother of three and step-mother of two. My two boys struggled academically and required all manner of parental support (homework supervision, weekly check-ins with teachers, visits to school, tutors, summer school). I even resorted to the "carrot" of $100 for an A and $50 for a B, forfeited by an F. I never paid one son a dime. However, with our help, he did graduate from a good Catholic high school and is bravely serving our country as an Army paratrooper, with one deployment to Afghanistan under his belt. I couldn't be prouder. The other son was just accepted to a state college, a stupendous achievement for him. Not everyone is meant to be a straight A student with a Harvard degree, like my husband and myself. We all have gifts and deserve to be treated with dignity. Do I scream occasionally? Yes, but I reserve it for moral failings, like dishonesty or stealing.

JMW| 1.21.11 @ 2:29PM

I see a lot of comments that talk of success and winning, but unto what ends? What does success and winning benefit a child? Possibly a good paycheck, which is helpful in this world. But what more? Self esteem is rendered by a knowledge of intrinsic value placed on a human life, not by performance demanded.

Happy, well adjusted humans are developed by parents who instill love and acceptance into their children. It’s interesting to ponder where these ideals of “the best at all costs” derive. Many socialist societies promote being the best because the state has made slaves of them, and one gets favors from the state when they become “the best”.

No value is placed on being decent and kind and loving. Socialist ideals produce monsters.

Capt G| 1.22.11 @ 12:03PM

Who said the best at all costs? That's the type of mischaracterization I thought we left in the 70's. All are runners in the race, yet only one may win. The other runners do not just fill up the race, they strive to win. And across all of our individual lives we can pursue perfection and catch excellence. Self esteem is not earned by some soft and fuzzy notion of the intrinsic value of the human life, gained from book learning or inculcation. Self esteem is earned by painting the garage, the wages for which (as Mom used to say) are the satisfaction of a job well done. And any child raised in such a manner will have not only self esteem, based upon the ability to tackle a problem and work it through to the end, but he'll also have a respect and a reverence for the work, efforts, and labor of his fellow man. He will know that to seize a man's wealth is to seize the very sweat, labor, and pride that went into painting that garage.

Bea| 2.11.11 @ 5:25AM

Actually, original self-esteem research indicated that being able to complete challenging tasks successfully led to self esteem... lord, I hate pop psychology for the distortions in people's understanding it produces.

Lee Anne| 1.21.11 @ 4:09PM

Ben is absolutely right. Screaming does NOTHING to help a child succeed. Yeah, I am a mom and yeah I did lose it and scream on occasion over nothing, I am not proud of that. Children need connections, they need to know that they are needed and wanted. You have to put them first before your job and before your dating if you are divorced or single. Learning to behave is best taught by being kind to your kids and encouraging kindness by them. (I have a daughter who is a surgeon and a son who is a college dropout and the best thing about them both is they are kind and loving)

Richard Baker| 1.22.11 @ 8:51AM

I though diversity was a such a wonderful concept. Considering the results of the Asian kids in school, maybe the rest of the country should at least consider some form of the hardcore approach. As seen in the abysmal test scores and low levels of education nationally, how's the touchy-feely self-esteem movement working out? The Asian kids are tired of carrying the rest of us on test scores. Can you imagine how bad they'd be if we DIDN'T have their scores?

Suzanne Rhoades| 1.22.11 @ 9:24PM

There are 3 billion Chinese. Are you trying to tell me that they all play violin and get straight As? The ones who can't are still in China working at the manufacturing plants that make all our stuff.

There doesn't ever seem to be a shortage of advice from parents on how to raise other people's kids.

Harrison| 1.24.11 @ 1:23AM

As long as Junior has "peace of mind" when he's serving up Double Whoppers I guess that's all that matters.

Bea| 2.11.11 @ 5:22AM

This end of the country, Junior may have a BA or BS as well. Education does not equal jobs any longer.

ET| 1.26.11 @ 8:21PM

Really, the headline of the original article should simply be modified as follows:
"Why Chinese mothers are superior (At turning out Chinese children)"

weddingdresses| 6.27.11 @ 5:07AM

There are 3 billion Chinese. Are you trying to tell me that they all play violin and get straight As? The ones who can't are still in China working at the manufacturing plants that make all our stuff.

There doesn't ever seem to be a shortage of advice from parents on how to raise other people's kids

Adidas| 8.11.11 @ 5:03AM

is good

Boot camp for kids| 12.23.11 @ 4:27AM

Not only in China, even in india this situation is happening and one should take more care about it and try to overcome this. But unfortunately like in US and Uk, India doesn't have any boot camps or classes to learn

العاب بنات| 4.11.12 @ 2:21PM

Our public schools have no discipline thanks to the ACLU. They are a catastrophe. On the other hand, most kids don't need boot camp.