The American Spectator : A Few Grown Men

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A Few Grown Men

By Lisa Fabrizio on 1.13.11 @ 6:07AM

Can we afford to remain a land of eternal immaturity?

Anyone who reads this column knows I am no fan of modern culture with its crudity, inanity, and especially the constant noise which blots out the desire for all but the most shallow of pursuits. This noxious noise has rendered a large chunk of our nation incapable of any kind of deep thought. And by this, I do not mean only the corrosion wrought on the world by bad music, worse art and horrific cinema; I mean the degradation of our social mores to a point that allows these pervasions such great sway.

In days of old, young people had always been drawn to entertainment that perplexed and often disgusted their elders. But with the advent of the dominance of the Baby Boomers, a phenomenon has developed in that the ways of the kiddies have become the norm and their dictates have come to rule all of American society.

This is why anyone who decides to sit down and watch say, a football game — a sport which has been played professionally for nearly a century — must be bombarded with ear-splitting and taste-challenging “music.” The same is true for baseball, which has survived flappers and jitterbugs but now cannot apparently endure without the din of rap and heavy metal ringing through the rafters of its stadiums. Eternal youth for all through forced deafness!

Of course, those of a certain age know all too well the genesis of this. Lifelong irresponsibility is a child of the 1960s, one of whose many destructive mantras was, “Never trust anyone over thirty,” which seemed to mandate that all men must seek a state of perpetual adolescence, and thus, always remain “cool.”

Sports is just one example, where we tolerate the likes of Rex Ryan while venerating the memory of Vince Lombardi. But that’s just it; Lombardi and his ilk are treated like museum pieces; okay to visit now and then and even to raise paeans to, but to expect men to actually act that way? Prehistoric! But were it only confined to the spheres of sports or entertainment, its influence would be far less heinous. But sadly, this Peter Pandemonium has been spreading to nearly all walks of life.

I never thought I’d be more surprised or disgusted than when the hijinks of Bill Clinton in the Oval Office came to light. But nothing has so disturbed me as the sorry story of Captain Owen Honors, the U.S. Navy officer who, as executive officer of the USS Enterprise, made and starred in raunchy videos ostensibly produced to raise morale aboard ship. Since he was disciplined by the Navy, many have come to his defense, claiming that he was sacrificed at the altar of political correctness because of gay slurs on the videos. But I believe his immolation was the result of his own immersion into our national culture of eternal immaturity.

Yes, the content of the videos disturbed me but, as many have written, they were no worse than what passes for entertainment in today’s society, while the social conduct of men at sea has been legendary for its coarseness. But there was something else, something totally alien to any observations I’ve ever had of military men that unnerved me. So I contacted retired Navy JAGC officer, Captain Albert A. Reynolds, Jr., for his opinion:

The most egregious matter was not the scatological references, the crude and vulgar language, the simulated masturbation, the homosexual slurs or the feigned promiscuous conduct. What was worse, by several orders of magnitude, was the rampant fraternization in which Honors engaged.

It is strictly prohibited for military superiors to become unduly familiar with subordinates. Officers, and especially officers in command positions, must not relate to subordinates as equals, buddies, drinking pals, sex partners, gambling associates, or in any other way that might blur the authority and responsibility each party has toward the other.

For his part, the subordinate, by custom and law, should be conditioned to respect and trust his superiors. This is necessary because he must accept and react immediately to any lawful order given in the heat of battle, or otherwise. It matters not that a superior’s order may surely result in death or grievous injury to the subordinate. He must comply.

On the other hand, the senior must respect and treat subordinates properly and when appropriate, commend them, or as necessary, hold them accountable. Beyond that, the senior should train and equip his men and concern himself with their safety, security and well-being at all times. He must not undermine his own authority by engaging in any unduly familiar conduct with any subordinate, officer or enlisted. In other words, there must be standing, accepted, and mutual respect throughout the chain of command of a military unit that fosters a close knit and effective fighting force based on duty, honor and courage. Any officer who disgraces himself as Capt. Honors has done, clearly harms unit cohesion and effectiveness.

He was properly relieved of his duties, and I’ll tell you something else right now: any other officer having authority over Honors, including any captain of the ship or any battle group commander to which the USS Enterprise was assigned for workups or deployment, and who knew, or should have known, about this vast, ongoing pattern of fraternization, should also pay big time.

In my opinion, Honors should now be court-marshaled, dismissed from the Navy, stripped of his pension rights and serve prison time. He’s a disgrace and embarrassment to his rank, his ship, the US Navy, and to the United States.

So while we put it in different ways, Captain Reynolds and I were both disturbed by the same thing: U.S. Navy officers acting like frat boys. Which speaks to the true tragedy of the Honors incident: if our military cannot attract leaders who are mature enough to know the difference between morale and morality, we are truly sunk.

About the Author

Lisa Fabrizio is a columnist who hails from Connecticut (mailbox@lisafab.com).

Letter to the Editor View all comments (152) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Vaemar| 1.13.11 @ 6:42AM

Captain Honors is a victim of a culture which has promoted total confusion about how to behave., about honour and dignity. We make heroes out of rock-stars whose behaviour is worse.

I can't imagine a captain in the British Navy behaving this way, but then, Britain doesn't Nave a navy any more ... so I'm not sure what that proves.

Charles| 1.13.11 @ 7:04AM

He wasn't old enough to know better? He can still blame his upbringing, his parents, everyone but himself?? Seriously? That's your excuse for his behavior?? The truth (and no one likes to admit this) is almost anyone over the age of 15 knows what is right, and what is wrong - in almost any life situation. But our society continually negates any and all personal responsibility - the results of which we endure everyday.

daddio| 1.13.11 @ 8:03AM

He is not a victim. He made a choice. A poor one. He should suffer the consequences of that choice. Period.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 2:10PM

"He is not a victim. He made a choice. A poor one. He should suffer the consequences of that choice. Period."

When you foster a "zero defects" mentality, the leaders you get are zeros.

Pelligrino| 1.13.11 @ 3:47PM

Mr. Stuart Koehl,
Correct. A 'zero defects' military environment for officers does indeed paralyze.

However, this is no trivial matter.

Owen Honors is no victim -- of anything. He is/was one VERY blessed man to be able to attend Annapolis, be an officer, get to fly fantastic jets, get to do tough duty, get to lead others, get to see the world, unparalled advanced military education (during his officer years)....The list goes on.

His gratitude to the nation should know no bounds.

Owen Honors' defects are not "zeros." They are many. And of his own doing.

He should have no retirement benefits whatsoever. He is a horribly lousy chapter in our nation's military history.

Now...let's root out the rest of his ilk (yes, this is for the good of our nation and our national defense)

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 5:15PM

And what, pray tell, did he do that was so heinous?

Angelo | 1.13.11 @ 8:12AM

To recall a quote by Winston Churchill ..about the British Navy.....

"The British has a history of Rum, Bum...and Buggery

CDR D (Ret)| 1.13.11 @ 9:59AM

From my limited observation, the British Navy has its frat boy element too. But there is a cultural distinction within the U.S. Navy itself that most outside of it are unaware of: Naval officers who are Naval Aviators are the "Frat boys" of the Navy whereas most other Naval officers, particularly the Surface Warfare officers (SWOs) don't tolerate this type of behavior. And CAPT Honors came from the Fighter community which is the cockiest of the Naval Aviation communities. It seems we have all forgotten Tailhook '92 and the hijinks that happened there, but that incident was representative of the culture within U.S. Naval Aviation, and which still exists to some extent.

I think CAPT Reynolds is absolutely correct in stating what the problem is. But I do not think the punishment he recommended fits the crime. He was relieved, he was disgraced and he must soon retire. Traditionally we have not done much more than that in these situations. The rest of the Naval Officer communities will get the message, just from this.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 2:31PM

"He was relieved, he was disgraced and he must soon retire. "

We can afford to do this because we are not serious about war. When the guns are shooting and the pucker factor is high, it's really amazing how readily superior commanders will overlook such pecadillos if the offender has the capacity to perform the mission.

In peacetime, however (and the Navy behaves as though this is peacetime), the "Zero Defects" mentality prevails. With too many officers and not enough command slots, anybody with the slightest blemish on his record is passed over and forced out.

Of course, the best way to avoid getting a black mark is never to stick out your neck, never have an original idea, and never go to bat for your men. So, eventually, you get a Navy commanded by eunuchs unwilling to stand up to political pressure, unwilling to protect their subordinates, and unable to defend the country.

RAMIII| 1.13.11 @ 4:04PM

"Of course, the best way to avoid getting a black mark is never to stick out your neck, never have an original idea, and never go to bat for your men."

Stuart,
So, Owen Honor's behavior was "going to bat for his men"? Are you equating his "exploits" with courage? Is there a difference between human flaws and aberrant behavior? What exactly are you justifying? I struggle to comprehend your logic.

Bottom Line: What this Commanding Officer did reduced morale, not increased it. By wanting to gain his subordinates' favor, he subsequently lost their respect.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 5:16PM

"Bottom Line: What this Commanding Officer did reduced morale, not increased it. By wanting to gain his subordinates' favor, he subsequently lost their respect."

Not according to the men who were actually on the ship. But, I guess, they do not count.

RAMIII| 1.13.11 @ 5:46PM

For the record I served in the Navy on an aircraft carrier and if this kind of behavior had occurred this officer would have lost my respect. I don't expect anyone to be perfect. I hold the view what you are accountable for the behaviors you endorse.

Where is discipline when you cannot hold people accountable (in this case the UCMJ). But perhaps the law is arbitrary and anarchy is the best method -- where any law can be applied in any desired way to achieve the pre-determined outcome. Hence no one will respect the law.

Since you are above the fray; could you please answer my questions from my previous post. Thanks.

Pelligrino| 1.13.11 @ 7:28PM

Thank you, RAMIII. You have very well reenforced what all know:

There is no respect from subordinates to seniors who wantonly engage (repeatedly) in sophomoric, deviant ways.

No seaman or junior officer appreciates his father-figure-like-stern disciplinarian and (supposed to be) standard bearer behaving the fool.

It dilutes the ass chewings (those deserved and those undeserved), it undermines respect for senior ranks, it causes the junior levels (by numbers, the large majority in any miliary unit) to question the sanity and wisdom of the leader.

And that impacts training, discipline every day, combat readiness, and mission accomplishment.

Thank you for both your comments, RAMIII.

RAMIII| 1.14.11 @ 9:11AM

Thank you kindly!

ClaudeM| 1.13.11 @ 10:12AM

I think the Churchill quoatation was more like:
"Rum, sodomy and the lash."

CDR D (Ret)| 1.13.11 @ 10:16AM

Oh, and Angelo, the quote is:

"Rum, sodomy and the lash."

I guess, as of last month, the sodomy part is now official.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 1:21PM

The precise quote is "The traditions of the service, sir, are rum, sodomy and the lash!"

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 2:16PM

Should I be bothered that we all know this?

Jacob McCandles| 1.13.11 @ 11:55AM

It is appropriate for the Navy to punish unprofessional conduct that is detrimental to the mission. However, I believe those who have never served in a military unit should refrain from criticism in these cases. They do not know the pressures of serving on a Navy vessel that provides no guaranteed time off, no weekends, 24/7 vigilance, and a lifestyle that results only from the Needs of the Navy, not personal desires. We had better start taking better care of our combat military units or we will find ourselves without the security most of us take for granted.

GENE HAUBER| 1.13.11 @ 1:12PM

hey vaemar,
capt honors is NOT a victim, HE IS A CULPRIT and never should have risen to his present position.
His bosses all along his career have been derelict and I agree with the author that they also should be called out.
HE IS A DISGRACE.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 1:22PM

And the basis for this conclusion is. . . .?

Quartermaster| 1.13.11 @ 7:34PM

My observation from having spent much of my life in contact with Military is that the overwhelming majority of people that are screaming about Homors know little to nothing of the Military.

Contacting a retired JAG officer does not cut it either. They know the military in only a glancing fashion as they are just lawyers in uniform. Forget the TV series. The Navy is nothing like it was portrayed on that bit of fadish fiction.

Honors is a victim. Period. End of story. The screaming that is typified by Fabrizio in the article above is part an parcel of the immaturity she decries. Honors humor does not fit my sense of humor, but that's me. It would not have caused me to disrespect the man anymore than brushing his teeth would.

The screaming is all about Political Correctness, and in its worst form. The movie was made 4 years ago. Why is it just now coming up. Why is no one that was in his chain of command being brought up on charges, reduced in rank to their last successful, and put out to pasture? The reason is Honors is the sacrificial lamb to throw to the feministas, after Graff, and for the DADT repeal faction. If you think this is the last you are going to see of nonsense like this, you are deluded. As things are going, we won't have a military worthy of the name inside of 5 years.

From what I have seen on the Milblogs, my opinion above is the consensus of those who have served. Theer are a few exceptions, like RAMIII above, but his opinion is not at all common. The opinion of those who were serving under Honors, on the other hand, are far from exceptions. They've pretty much been the rule.

But, as we see, they don't count. PC rules. Even faux conservatives are showing it as Fabrizio shows above.

Quartermaster| 1.13.11 @ 7:37PM

Oh, Fabrizio, do a little research on Chester Nimitz and the Texas picnic during WW2. he hosted and lead it.

You might be shocked when you read about that mature leader of WW2. Just a hint. Look up the Potter biography that came out about 1977. It has the details of the party.

Articles of the nature of this one is why I have little respect for most so called conservative pundits and leaders.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 8:07PM

I had forgotten about that one. The Nimitz incident that I like to recall is how, as a lieutenant, he ran the destroyer USS Decatur up on a mud bank. He was court martialed and given a letter of reprimand--which in today's Zero Defect Navy would mean his retirement at the rank of lieutenant commander (if he got that far). Later, in command of the submarine A-1 (USS Plunger), he ran his boat aground again--this time acquitted of wrongdoing (but just having a grounding in your personnel jacket is still a career-ending event).

It was a different Navy, one more tolerant of personal eccentricities and willing to overlook failure if the officer in question showed promise in other ways. It was a smaller Navy, and most of the officers knew each other and made evaluations based on personal contacts. Today's Navy is far more "professional"--which is another way of saying, bureaucratic and hidebound. Officers are promoted on the basis of "objective" personnel evaluations and review boards. Somehow, though, it does not seem capable of picking out the kind of leaders we really need. Hmm.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 7:59PM

What about the captain of the cruiser Leander during World War II, who went into battle wearing a Maori kilt given to him by the people of New Zealand?

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 1.13.11 @ 6:48AM

I agree with your conclusions about popular culture. Anyone who delves into it as a lifestyle is most likely headed to failure.

As far as the maturity of military leaders, you could probably make the argument that military leaders are being conditioned to be politically correct which leads to all sorts of seemingly bizarre behavior.

There's very little doubt you could have made more of a point of leadership failure if you simply focused on the commanders who ignored Major Hasssan's behavior before he got an automatic weapon and killed 13 other soldiers. By the way, you'll notice the popular culture almost never refers to Major Hassan.

You'll also notice I didn't say before he went berserk and killed 13 other soldiers. Major Hassan had apparently been beserk for years and his behavior ignored.

However, Honors is now reviled for what amounts to an ill though out prank. I think Honors himself could make a good case he was simply trying to engage in the new leadership style of the military.

Having stated that though, I want to state that I emphatically agree with you. Years ago I attended a school board meeting where they were looking for solutions to massive behavior problems in a local school.

I stood up and stated that they should eliminate as man references to popular culture as possible from the schools and the first step would be to put the students in uniforms. Of course I was ignored and I recently heard that the school, which is located in a wealthy community, has had a series of robberies and assaults and drug sales. The perpetrators were students who were 19 and 20 years old and were in the 10th grade.

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 1.13.11 @ 7:38AM

By the way, one other point that needs to be made here is that men may no longer be men because it is illegal.

With all the gender and race and special citizen regulations built into the laws and regulations is it any wonder men can not be men?

If they do act like men they are dishonored and if they don't act like men then they are in fact ridiculing someone.

GreginOkinawa| 1.13.11 @ 8:46AM

Corect BHO. It is now legal to serve openly as a homosexual, but not as an openly heterosexual.

Appleby| 1.13.11 @ 6:54AM

"My dear young friend," said Mustapha Mond, "civilization has absolutely no need of nobility or heroism. These things are symptoms of political inefficiency. In a properly organized society like ours, nobody has any opportunities for being noble or heroic. Conditions have got to be thoroughly unstable before the occasion can arise. Where there are wars, where there are divided allegiances, where there are temptations to be resisted, objects of love to be fought for or defended–there, obviously, nobility and heroism have some sense. But there aren't any wars nowadays. The greatest care is taken to prevent you from loving any one too much. There's no such thing as a divided allegiance; you're so conditioned that you can't help doing what you ought to do. And what you ought to do is on the whole so pleasant, so many of the natural impulses are allowed free play, that there really aren't any temptations to resist. And if ever, by some unlucky chance, anything unpleasant should somehow happen, why, there's always soma to give you a holiday from the facts. And there's always soma to calm your anger, to reconcile you to your enemies, to make you patient and long-suffering. In the past you could only accomplish these things by making a great effort and after years of hard moral training. Now, you swallow two or three half-gramme tablets, and there you are. Anybody can be virtuous now. You can carry at least half your morality about in a bottle. Christianity without tears–that's what soma is."

RAMIII| 1.13.11 @ 4:08PM

BRAVE NEW WORLD -- is here!

PCPSmoker| 1.13.11 @ 7:38AM

The problem was taping the behavior and having it released to the public. All I can say is that our crew certainly grew tighter, more cohesive, and ultimately more effective after the completion of Blue Nose ceremony. Then again, we had adopted the "what happens on the boat, stays on the boat" mentality way before ad men dreamt of it.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 2:14PM

There was also a time when superior officers knew when they did not want to see or know something. Of course, with the upper echelons staffed by careerist non-entities, their only concern is covering their own backsides, and if that means tossing a good man overboard for a minor indiscretion, well, so be it. It was said inside the Army that General Wesley Clark climbed to the top of the pyramid over the bodies of his subordinates. He's not that atypical.

Mike Kryschtal| 1.13.11 @ 8:09AM

As I understand it, the thesis of this article is that the decay of modern culture has now spread to the United States Navy.

The author mentioned that the Captain Honors’ social conduct at sea was totally alien to any of her observations of military men. The author refers to a retired navy lawyer whose opinion that Captain Honors is guilty of fraternization. Since Captain Honors has not been formally accused of violating the Uniform Code of Military Justice, I think it is premature to reach a verdict based on media accounts and edited videos. I also question the assertion that higher ups must have been involved. A civilian can murder people on tape and every reference must be preceded with “alleged,” this distinction is withheld from Captain Honors who is deemed guilty until proven innocent (along with his superiors).

Since this article was published in the American Spectator, I assume that the author is not anti-military. What exactly is the basis of the author’s observations of military men? If you are going to draw conclusions about the Navy it might be helpful to interview some Chief Petty Officers and Sailors, as well as a Navy Lawyer. Since this matter is still under investigation the author might want to see what the investigation reveals before passing judgment on Captain Honors or the Navy. I served for 26 years and commanded at company, battalion, and brigade level. I watched the videos, they are sophomoric (and humorous), perhaps inappropriate, but alone they are not proof of fraternization. If the threshold for fraternization is this low then the military must prohibit all occasions where such perceptions can threaten good order and cohesion. The regulation quoted in the article is typical, fraternization is illegal but be a good leader. The point where a leader crosses the line is pretty clear cut; sexual misconduct, rewarding friends, punishing others. Unduly familiar conduct is more subjective. When is conduct ‘unduly’ familiar. Kind of like excessive celebration.

Finally, all of the judgments passed on Captain Honors leaves out the part about how has served our country, in harm’s way, for his entire adult life. He flew fighter planes in combat and spent years away from his own family in order to defend our freedom. For that he deserves our respect. Those who feel superior to this officer should volunteer to take his place.

txn4ever| 1.13.11 @ 5:38PM

Amen, brother!

I spent time in the Navy myself. Idiots with a mind set like the JAG officer quoted in this arcticle do more harm to morale than anything Honors did on that ship.

Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 1.13.11 @ 8:18AM

I don't feel sorry for Captain Owen Honors at all, he got what he deserved, because he wasn't acting like the Leader that he was supposed to be, he was acting like just one of the boys.

Now I've been truly blessed to have had five great Company Commanders in a row (4 of the 5 led my Company through 3 tours) , and five exceptional XO's too, who always put being professional above just doing their own thing. And some of them were "very" young (especially in comparison to me), but you'd never know it by the way they conducted themselves, but that's what it's all about when you take on the position of Leadership. Did they do wild and crazy things on their time off? I have no idea, because if they did, they kept that quiet too.

The USS Enterprise deserves an Adult as its Leader, not a Frat-Boy, who wants everybody talking about how funny he is (he's not!!). Disgraceful!!

Broken LT| 1.13.11 @ 9:16AM

"Did they do wild and crazy things on their time off?"

YOU BETTER BELIEVE WE DID (DO)!!

But in front of the men, never. You can laugh at or tell jokes, throw a football, watch movies or play video games. You can sit outside at night and shoot the bull about cars, kids, dogs, family and such. What you can't do is the sort of horseplay and extremely off-color tomfoolery that was displayed in those videos.

You're NOT one of the boys when it comes to the troops. You're more like the trusted uncle that the kids can always turn to.

RAMIII| 1.13.11 @ 4:12PM

On point! Thank you.

Old Soldier| 1.13.11 @ 8:49AM

This article is complete nonsense. Of course there are ways soldiers, sailors, and Marines are expected to act in public and on the battlefield. How we act off-duty while blowing off steam from the high pressure work we do for you is none of your damn civilian business.

What Captain Honors was doing was trying to keep his crew loose and motivated during a period of incredible work. I blame the man or woman who betrayed his XO by releasing the tape.

I cannot imagine a more worthless opion than that of a JAG. Look up REMF - that's what they are. Backstabbers are second-guessers who never have to pull a trigger, risk their lives, or lead anyone anywhere.

Bruce| 1.13.11 @ 9:08AM

Old Soldier;
After showing his crew these videos and taking whatever other actions he may have, how could this commander sit in judgment (as he must) if one of his own sailors engages in the same conduct being shown. Look at the "shower scene" as just one example. By putting on this "skit", he has just authorized any sailor aboard ship to take the same action. The sailor's defense? "Hey it was all in good fun, just like your video!"

Old Soldier| 1.13.11 @ 9:21AM

So Captain Honors is telling them to showers together and Sarah Palin wants me to shoot members of Congress?

What Captain Honors was trying to avoid is brawls and open disobedience due to boredom, fatigue and stress. I've seen a platoon formation dissolve into a mass of swinging fists for the same reason, it happens. When it does happen, it's the XO who has to take away rank and pay, sometimes to a man with a wife and children.

Unlike the REMF, pouge, JAGs, Captain Honors didn’t thrive on ruining careers and families.

David| 1.13.11 @ 9:06AM

If a junior Lt, had made these videos it would have been one thing. If a Non-Com had made these videos it would have been another. But the fact that an officer with a Bird on his shoulders made them was just a bit much.

Im not in the least bit offended by these videos. Certainly there quite tame compared to say Saturday Night Lives ‘Box’ video. I certainly didn’t like the new left getting all high and mighty about how ‘disturbing’ these videos were. Certainly there blatant and deliberate attempts to put the videos in the worst possible light, in order to make it worse was disgusting and typical of the worst types of yellow journalism.

I agree with old soldier, this was designed to be a morale booster. Perhaps he is guilty under the code for fraternization, and certainly he knew the risks when he made those videos. But the fact remains I would not want to be the guy who released those videos when the crew of the Enterprise finds out who betrayed there Captain.

WilliamInWien| 1.13.11 @ 9:20AM

Another rush to judgement, in my opinion. Whatever the case, the Captain should be judged within the context of his total service time. Poor judgement but nothing that endangered the lives of the crew or the safety of the ship. Retirement might seem appropriate. Another "Tailhook" episode unfolding here?

tdiinva| 1.13.11 @ 9:23AM

To Ms. Fabrizio I call BS. I have two names for you that in their own way refute both you and your JAG source:

George S. Patton and Omar Bradley. Both in their own ways acted in ways that contradict your point of view. GEN Patton, as we all know, gave rip roaring speechs to his troops filled with vulgar images and language. The troops ultimatelly loved him. GEN Bradley was known as the GI's general for a reason. He was close to his troops.

There is no one template to be a leader and CAPT Honors was more in vein of GEN Patton then GEN Bradley. However, when he came aboard the Enterprise morale was in the toilet and he turned it around. That's what leader do.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 1:20PM

Actually, Bradley was known as "The GI's General" because Enie Pyle set out to portray him as such--and mainly because Pyle hated George Patton. In reality, Bradley was cold, aloof, seldom visited the front, was unknown to his soldiers and merciless to his officers--except for some of his pampered favorites like Courtney Hodges. By all accounts, Bradley was out of his depth commanding an army group, while Hodges would have been a barely competent corps commander. On the other hand, Patton's skills were not exhausted in Army Command, and had he commanded 12th Army Group instead of Bradley, the war might have ended in 1944.

Unfortunately, the military is very uncomfortable with non-conformist geniuses, and prefers predictable plodders like Omar the Tentmaker. And in peacetime, that may be sufficient. When the bullets fly, though, you need hard charging fire-eaters. Once the war is over, you can fire them at leisure.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 9:23AM

Nobody who has read an iota of military history--American military history--can take this article seriously. I am perfectly prepared to lay down in spades gags, pecadillos, gaffes and generally immature behavior as indulged in by senior American officers from Mad Anthony Wayne down to the present day. Only a person who has never been to a dining in, or visited the O-Club after a really bad day can say that what Captain Honor did was in any way egregious or even out of the ordinary.

We not only raise nerf kids these days, we're raising a nerf military, in which preserving the hurt feelings of every soldier and sailor takes precedence over everything else. And it is just going to get worse.

Old Soldier| 1.13.11 @ 9:53AM

The best officer I ever worked for was also a pilot. Before a deployment in 1990, I had to chauffer him around Camp Lejeune because he lost his base driving privileges after some, uh...trouble during and after a party at the O-Club.

Who cares? He was a man who never hesitated to run towards the fire on the battlefield. As his radio operator and bodyguard I gladly put myself between him and danger whenever it presented itself. He was awarded a Bronze Star for his skill and bravery calling in air strikes for a unit that was severely outnumbered.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 1:15PM

Immature behavior of which Lisa would no doubt disapprove (a Dirty Dozen):

1. Prop blast parties
2. Dead Bug
3. Crossing the Line
4. Table Top Carrier Landings
5. Firing a Very gun up a chimney
6. Sewing a man's thumb and forefinger together while he was passed out drunk.
7. Human pyramids
8. Walking on the ceiling.
9. Extreme fluency in profanity
10. Nekkid ladies painted on the sides of airplanes
11. Nekkid ladies taken up in airplanes
12. "System D"

Bizzy Brain| 1.13.11 @ 9:24AM

You will soon get your chance to see how well the military attracts moral men to a career of immorality, where they will be expected to espouse the doctrine that homosexual acts are normal and homosexuality is not immoral, and that anybody who holds a different opinion must keep it to himself or be expunged from the armed services.

Arch| 1.13.11 @ 10:15AM

There is another change in military leadership - communication. Where once the Captain of a ship was one of the most powerful men on Earth, today he is reduced to a highly experienced Officer of the Deck.

To understand this change, watch the film Master and Commander. Captain Jack Aubrey is the commander of a British frigate. His men (and boys) trust him as a combat commander and seaman, revere him father figure, and fear him as a disciplinarian. Aubrey has orders to seek and destroy a French ship, the Acheron, a sister ship of our USS Constitution, but he exceeds his orders and finally, through skill and deception, prevails. It is the way the world once was.

Today, with real time broadband satellite communications, an Admiral at Pearl Harbor has as much information as the Task Force Commander and participates in decision-making. Gone is "Lucky Jack" Aubrey's autonomy and tactical authority as a commander. Young naval officers, especially US Naval Academy graduates, do not want their decisions reversed or second guessed by fleet or theater commanders and are leaving the navy for civilian careers.

CDR D (Ret) is right. The fighter world is, in tone and in substance, a fraternity. In many cases rank is less important than skill and experience. Having a Lieutenant as flight leader with a Lieutenant Commander on his wing is common. A wingman can say four things on the radio, "Two," "Bingo," "Mayday," and "Lead, I think you're on fire." If he knew he was on fire, he would be a flight lead. Fighter units are, by design, arrogant, irreverent and aggressive to the core, and we want them to be that way.

Richard Baker| 1.13.11 @ 10:36AM

Old Soldier:
Fraternization!?! I hadn't heard that he was sleeping with, drinking with, or chasing broads with his crew. A better role model would be Richard (Rogue Warrior) Marcinko who demanded "total f**king unit integrity." Too many of these critics have either never served or have forgotten that human beings are being led and not cattle or machines. Since his efforts involved restoring shipboard morale, which had obviously deteriorated under the Commanding Officer, it would be instructive to remember the words of one of the greatest of all military leaders. " Morale is to the physical as three is to one." Napoleon Bonaparte.

Ed| 1.13.11 @ 10:41AM

Major Dick Winters, of "Band of Brother's" fame, passed away this week. Now there was an Officer and a Gentleman. Modern military officers could learn a lot from him.

Old Soldier| 1.13.11 @ 12:38PM

Yet at the end of D-Day, he shares a drink with his men! Fraternization! Relieve him! Run him out of the service! End his career and put that douche from Friends back in charge.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 2:07PM

After "liberating" Berchtesgarten, Winters liberated a large portion of Hitler's wine cellar and distributed it to the men of his battalion. He may have been a tea totaler, but he didn't foist his virtues off on his men. He knew when they needed to blow off steam, and he provided them the means by which to do so. In the process, I think he violated about a score of Army regulations, not the least being looting and inciting drunk and disorderly conduct.

Pelligrino| 1.13.11 @ 6:32PM

Mr. Koehl, I see. You were there at Berchtestgarten?

And Old Soldier, you were there at D-Day?

(No, I was at neither.)

But I bet if we could show the 'video,' we'd probably see a degree of friendliness and familiarity that has been in ALL our services in the modern era of our nation and US armed forces.

My bet: Guys may have gotten a bit tipsy at Berchtesgarten (tends to happen when men have not had alcohol of any sort for awhile), very few drunk.

Wouldn't have mattered. The next day was all back to full military duty.

Rewarding the guys for surviving a life-changing sequence of huge impact like D-Day or moments of pure bliss like hearing that WW II is over (at least in the European theater) ....

These moments have ZERO relation to an O-6 45-year old officer (third in charge) behaving as the hedonistic, deviant, immature frat boy in egotiscal videos.

I wish we could interview Dick Winters on what he thinks of an officer masterbating in front of his men. And sharing the scene with 4,000+ others. (and doing it again the next week, and the week after....)

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 8:14PM

"Mr. Koehl, I see. You were there at Berchtestgarten?"

No need to be. If you don't like Stephen Ambrose's account, you can always read Winters' own memoir. He's not embarrassed by the incident. Are you?

"My bet: Guys may have gotten a bit tipsy at Berchtesgarten (tends to happen when men have not had alcohol of any sort for awhile), very few drunk."

It was a rip-snorting, blind drunk binge. And the American soldier in Western Europe was seldom without alcohol for long--whether it was getting smashed on Calvados in Normandy, or liberating schnapps from houses in Austria. And when there was none to be bought or stolen, the American GI was quite ingenious about making his own. PT boat, submarine and destroyer men could always tap into and filter the 180-proof ethyl alcohol used to power torpedoes. Cut with canned pineapple or grapefruit juice, it was much preferred to 3% beer available through the PX.

"Wouldn't have mattered. The next day was all back to full military duty."

With heads the size of watermelons, tongues the consistency of sandpaper, and looking forward to getting shot so as to put them out of their misery.

"These moments have ZERO relation to an O-6 45-year old officer (third in charge) behaving as the hedonistic, deviant, immature frat boy in egotiscal videos."

Still a prig, I see.

Old Soldier| 1.14.11 @ 8:38AM

My D-Day was 1991. Thanks to prigs like you and the Saudis, we couldn't raise a toast to victory and fallen brothers (none in my company thankfully) until we got home.

Stuart Koehl| 1.14.11 @ 10:59AM

But the American GI will not be denied! A number became quite adept at distilling hooch from fruit punch, raisins and various other materials, placed in a resealed water bottle and buried in the hot sand. It might strip your pallet, but it will get you knocked back on your heels.

Also, our soldiers' wives and sweethearts (may they never meet!) answered the call of duty with tremendous determination and ingenuity. They discovered that the little carboard cylinders 0f Crystal Light drink mix were exactly the right size to hold one small can of Rolling Rock beer. Buying up cases of Crystal Light, they emptied out the canisters, inserted the beer, resealed the boxes and shipped them off to Kuwait. I just hope the women didn't make the kids drink all that Crystal Light--it's vile stuff.

L. Ross| 1.13.11 @ 11:39AM

Stuff like this makes me glad that I am Air Force. We don't have to worry very much about fraternization with the troops. The officers are in front flying the plane, and everyone else is going into the fight with them. Simplifies a lot of things.

Stuart Koehl| 1.14.11 @ 6:49AM

There have been a number of high profile cases of fraternization (in the biblical sense) between USAF officers and enlisted personnel. Interestingly, in several of these the officer was a woman. The response of the feminist media was rather predictable: a good officer was being railroaded out of the service because of antiquated and puritanical regulations about sex.

Seek| 1.13.11 @ 11:40AM

Lisa Fabrizio is a variation on Diana West, and none too edifying. Her contempt for sponteneity (also known as "sin" and "incivility") make her a modern-day Mrs. Grundy with Something Important to Say. I'll take Manhattan.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 2:08PM

Perhaps a dose of Kipling can cure her, or at least remind her that "single men in barracks don't grow into plaster saints".

Brian B| 1.13.11 @ 12:46PM

I was an enlisted man in the AF for six years on ground crew and agree with everything the Capt Reynolds said. The pilots by necessity worked in close quarters with us and were by any standard the most 'regular guys' of the officer corp, but it never crossed our minds that officers and enlisted would engage in conduct together as this clown Honors. There are better and more productive ways to raise morale than the one he chose.
I do have one question, how does a JAG spell court martialed, court marshaled?

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 2:25PM

" The pilots by necessity worked in close quarters with us and were by any standard the most 'regular guys' of the officer corp, but it never crossed our minds that officers and enlisted would engage in conduct together as this clown Honors. "

That might be due to the Air Force's insistence that all pilots must be commissioned officers. In other air forces, such as the Luftwaffe (and, until the 1950s, the RAF), there was a rank called "Flying Sergeant", who flew the airplanes and led the missions, same as the officers. Now, technically, the NCO pilots had their own mess and their own club, but it would be a foolish squadron CO indeed who barred his Flying Sergeants from drinking at the local pub with the officer pilots because of the fear of "fraternization".

Also, a carrier air wing is a very different organization than an Air Force combat wing, not the least when it comes to living conditions. Except when deployed to austere theaters, Air Force ground personnel have regular quarters, can live with their families, have local towns and cities to visit during time off duty. On the big boat, everybody is stuck with everybody else until the ship hits port--which may happen only once every couple of months or less. Big boat, but with 5000 men on board, it's close quarters. Don't impose Army or Air Force standards of behavior on ships at sea.

Tomcat| 1.13.11 @ 1:00PM

RE: CDR D...I really must take exception to the broad condemnation of the proud and professional Officers and Men of Naval Aviation. Now I realize the resentment and jealousy exhibited by the "black shoe" Navy dates back to the Langley (1922) but to suggest that Capt. Honors behavior is somehow a product of his being an Aviator is beneath contempt. When I saw these videos I was appalled that the star performer was an O-6 and the ship's XO. In my day the XO (regardless of the unit) was a fear- inducing no-nonsense kind of guy and typically the CO was the more approachable easygoing guy. My first fighter squadron XO could cause Ensigns to turn to jelly with a scowl! Of course, I watched a number of XOs undergo a strange transformation upon becoming the CO (turns out they were actually pretty good guys, the ogre schtick was an act). That being said, my first CO was famous throughout Naval Aviation for being adept at drinking booze while standing on his head, however he wouldn't have been caught dead putting on a performance like Capt Honors'...

CDR D (Ret)| 1.13.11 @ 8:30PM

Didn't mean to sound like I was condemning Naval Aviators. I was one once.

I respect both sides of the argument but I can't help but feel this is a textbook case of "conduct unbecoming an officer."

An officer must command respect if he/she is going to lead. I would not have behaved this way in front of my sailors, even though some of them would have thought it funny and maybe not lost respect for me. Most other officers I know, from ANY service, feel the same way.

Lisa Fabrizio's point that has been lost here is the coarsening of the culture. CAPT Honors tried to defend his conduct by appealing to "Family Guy" as a standard. He didn't seem to realize that a lot of people are appalled by "Family Guy." I think Lisa Fabrizio is one of those people.

MCPO Airdale| 1.13.11 @ 1:00PM

I love how staff and JAG officers are all so indignant about this. Carrier culture is different. But, I appreciate that those that sit on the sideline know better how to sustain morale on a past-her-prime ship in the midst of a long deployment. /sarc

Old Soldier| 1.13.11 @ 1:17PM

It's easier to stab people in the back while you are in the rear with the gear.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 8:14PM

In Washington, we like to say a friend is someone who stabs you in the chest.

Intricon| 1.13.11 @ 1:46PM

It's court-martial, not "marshall."

"Tomcat" commented that this article is "broad condemnation." Seems like a pun (the writer is a woman).

Evanston2| 1.13.11 @ 2:19PM

This article is entitled "A Few Grown Men." But it is a woman's view of what men should be. Now we're adding a homosexual's view of what men should be. Ms. Fabrizio and the Fagbos expect to change the culture -- which is behavior, writ large -- and still get the same outcomes (military victory). And what if you get boatloads of body bags, missing limbs, burnt off faces, and the like? It won't matter, as long as Americans are killed and wounded in politically correct proportions. Once military dominance falls, so does cultural dominance, and commerce that depends on it. All the flatulence that passes as art will die off, causing the sensitive types in the private sector to lose their jobs. Yes, I am 'doomsaying" regarding the overall future of America. Because the women and homos who have had a free ride on the bravery of others now dare to say they know better. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

Capt Albert A. Reynolds Jr.| 1.13.11 @ 2:28PM

Brian B, excellent question about how a "JAG officer" spells court-martialed. The answer is, not very well in this instance. Good catch.

MCPO Airdale, I've served tours of duty onboard two aircraft carriers, USS Constellation CV-64 (under two 0-6 captains) as ship's legal officer completing two WESTPAC cruises; and USS Midway CV-41 (under two 2-star admirals) as staff JAG for the embarked battle group commander.

I've also served tours of duty at two naval air stations (under four 0-6 captains) as station legal officer.

I've served as legal officer for two aviation wings (under two 0-6 captains, and two 1-star admirals).

I served as the senior legal advisor for the Commander, Naval Air Forces, U.S. Pacific Fleet (under two 3-star admirals) with such matters as the so-called "Tailhook Scandals" and "Tomcat Follies" occurring during my watch.

And, lastly, I've served as senior legal advisor for Commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet (under two 4-star admirals) and will assure you I handled many cases of alleged misconduct by senior naval officers including flag officers. And, I can also assure you that naval aviators have no superior claim to the kind of misconduct we see from Capt Honors.

So, master chief, you may want to cut me some slack about having not been there, you know?

And, lastly CDR D (Ret) and Mike Kryschtal, aye, your points are well made and well taken. Thanks.

A. A. Reynolds

COL Mike Kryschtal, USA (RET)| 1.13.11 @ 3:51PM

Thank you Captain Reynolds, for your service and perspective. I d0 not agree with the author's characterization of your opinion, but I respect the fact that you are a professional. I also acknowledge that if a leader is guilty of breaking the law, that leader must be held to account, regardless of their past service.

I hope, for Captain Honors' sake, that the investigation finds him to be guilty of nothing worse than poor judgment.

Our profession is one that demands the highest standards and is unforgiving of any lapses. Captain Honors has already paid a very heavy price for what might have been a misguided attempt to be 'funny.' Those folks who have used this thread to make disparaging comments about the Captain, particularly those who are former or current members of the military should remember that each of us is one bad decision from the same sort of humiliation. A little introspection and humility goes a long way.

For the author of the article, you might want to read (or re-read) Tommy Atkins by Rudyard Kipling.

Pelligrino| 1.13.11 @ 6:02PM

COL Mike Kruystal (ret.),
So, help me understand. In your judgement, it is just a 'lapse' to be repeatedly filmed as an 45 year old O-6 officer (third in charge and often in charge when the others were frequently away)...

It is just a 'lapse' to use US Navy Public Affairs equipment and junior Public Affairs seamen to film youself indulging in masterbation?

Then making sure that the color, the audio, the sound track...all are just right for broadcast to several thousand for whom you have great responsbility.

And these thousands onboard (and on the 13-14 ships in the carrier group) who look to you for supreme guidance, information, pure professionalism, stellar behavior and, yes, as a role model?

That is, yes, just a lapse.

(What are ALL the things he should have been doing for ship safety, maintenance, crew readiness, mentoring, officer development, ship discipline, inspections, checks ---- what are they versus spending time in self-adulation as a senior Navy pervert on camera?)

Just a (misguided?) lapse.

COL Mike Kryschtal, USA (Ret.)| 1.13.11 @ 6:34PM

Actually the Captain was not an 0-6 when he was the Executive Officer of the vessel. That may not be relevant but you should keep your facts straight. Also if you are going to try to flame me you should try to spell my name correctly.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I did not write that it was a lapse. I wrote that I hoped that the investigation would indicate that the videos would show that the alleged misconduct was a lapse. It may not. None of the accusations you make have not been proven in a trial by court martial. Until they are the Captain is entitled to the presumption of innocence.

Thank you for your time.

Pelligrino| 1.14.11 @ 7:36AM

I have to ask: What rank/pay grade was Owen Honors in 2006 and 2007 while aboard the USS Enterprise as XO?

He was commissioned at Annapolis in 1983, correct?

So...at the 23 and 24-year marks he is....just an O-5?

(that would be most odd)

I see no "breaks in service" from 1983 until the present.

Mr. Mike Kryschtal, I think you must be wrong on his rank during 2006, 2007. Am I correct? Or do I misunderstand?

More importantly, I must ask you are we really ALL..."each of us is one bad decision from the same sort of humiliation." ?

Really?

I may be prone to err (as I am human), but I don't think that most senior leaders are on that thin of ice for buffoonery decision-making (done multiple times).

Are you concerned about Owen's humiliation?

Or the humiliation he caused his ship, his fellow officers, the Navy, and our nation?

Or do you really think the Russian military, Chinese, and Iranians don't get to see 'XO Night' clips, too?

Right, right, this is just "poor judgement."

(Not) Looking forward to seeing your YouTube clips of the 'Very Best of Kryschtal' as you masterbate multiple times in front of your troops.

Stuart Koehl| 1.14.11 @ 3:58PM

"I may be prone to err (as I am human), but I don't think that most senior leaders are on that thin of ice for buffoonery decision-making (done multiple times)."

It all depends on the kind of buffoonery. As I noted, the right kind of buffoon--the kind who panders to his superiors and trims his sails to the wind--can go all the way to the top. On the other hand, even a mild violation of a politically correct shibboleth means career down the toilet.

By the way. I am demoting your from prig to jerk.

Stuart Koehl| 1.14.11 @ 3:58PM

Because, for someone who seems fixated on masturbation, you can't even spell it correctly.

Evanston2| 1.13.11 @ 10:01PM

Pelligrino, You're partially right. As a leader, how you communicate is just as important as what you communicate. So to take resources for (what you perceive to be) a personal ego trip (based on what you deem to be improper content) would be a mistake. But communication is the essence of leadership, simply put, if you're not communicating you're not leading. So perhaps the (then XO) was performing a legitimate function -- as a jarhead I don't pretend to know whether Honors was doing what an XO normally does, or not. On that, I would give him the benefit of the doubt and therefore dispute what you allege to be a waste of resources. Regarding the content of the video, Honors tried to be creative and as we've seen on many comments at AmSpec (prior articles included), Navy humor has traditionally been coarse and direct. As a Marine Corps officer I tried to spice things up so the men paid attention, and I didn't use "knock knock jokes." So, screw your sensibilities. The question is whether Honors was out of line with USN policy. I believe technically he was, and will have a reprimand added to his file, lose his command, and subsequently retire at his terminal rank. But if you would bother to "get real" for a second and compare this video to something from MTV or cable (and hey, it's on YouTube so how bad can it be...) you might, perhaps, get down from your high horse. We can't all be Obamas, perfect in every way.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 10:17PM

Suetonius, I believe, recounts how Julius Caesar gave a pep talk to his troops, using a sausage as a dramatic prop to show just what he intended to do to the Gauls.

This, it turns out, is the reason he was assassinated: his speech was considered coarse and undignified, and proved he was a bad role model and mentor for other Roman senators, which required that he be relieved of his command.

Pelligrino| 1.14.11 @ 8:08AM

A brief response and couple of questions for Evanston2.

Evanston2 wrote:

"But if you would bother to "get real" for a second and compare this video to something from MTV or cable ..."

What are the similarities and differences between a US military ship's CCTV (closed-circuit TV) and TV as a commercial, publicly available station like MTV or the various cable channels?

Are they identical?

And are US military personnel ever to be competing or trying to 0ut-do their cable TV "counterparts?"

Why would a US senior military leader ever seek to emulate what is considered late night, adult-only broadcasting and use this on a command information resource?

Are there no other initiatives employing real ingenuity that can be used to effectively communicate?

Note: The current POTUS is nowhere near perfect. Much more like on the other end of the big scale.

And that's a monstrous national security concern

I am sure that your grunts wanted to do the right thing, but I think they'd ask, "Sir, why do you tell me to ‘screw my sensibilities?’ We can only achieve the mission with talk, behavior, jokes, antics, and gestures that I'd never be able to share in stories/accounts to my wife or kids? Or parents?"

"We're just not military tough enough if we don't engage in that?"

Stuart Koehl| 1.14.11 @ 11:03AM

"Are they identical?"

Pretty much.

"I am sure that your grunts wanted to do the right thing, but I think they'd ask, "Sir, why do you tell me to ‘screw my sensibilities?’ We can only achieve the mission with talk, behavior, jokes, antics, and gestures that I'd never be able to share in stories/accounts to my wife or kids? Or parents?"

Pretty much right--which is why veterans seldom tell the civilians the truth about what they did, either at war or merely on deployment.

Suggestion: Read Tom Wolfe's "The Right Stuff". Just about everything in it is true (I've been able to document most of the stories he recounts). Learn about the four "sacred coordinates" of the military pilot back in the wholesome days of the 1940s and 50s.

Evanston2| 1.15.11 @ 6:07PM

Pellegrino, Thank you for replying to my questions. With questions. Essentially you conceded all my points. You just disagree regarding whether this is an effective way to communicate. You prefer it clean, and you may be correct. But your comments here allow for no such uncertainty: you are very confident in your ability to judge what works when communicating to a carrier crew. Not only that Honors' communication would be counterproductive, but that it actually is actionable under the UCMJ. Wow. One correction (and I apologize if I implied this): I was not an infantry officer, I was a logistician (retired now, 05). Also, I am a born again Christian (God did His work when I was a Maj) so I'm not a big fan of vulgarity. Nonetheless, one's sensibilities depend on the context. Vulgar language is routinely used in the military, particularly so in the Navy. The video may offend you, but if you want to talk to someone (in this case, squids) perhaps you should use their language? I did not believe it was appropriate to push my goody-two-shoes ethics on others, just common sense, a mission orientation, and instead of using big words to emphasize a point I'd aim it straight. I'll take the natural aggression and focus of the old, bold heterosexual military. You can have the new nuanced military. You and Lisa, walking point. Bullets start flying? Remember to say, "Oh, Fudge."

Tomcat| 1.13.11 @ 4:55PM

Capt. Reynolds, I don't suppose that when you served aboard Connie the CO was Capt. Paul "Speedbrakes" McCarthy? In the VF-24 Ready Room we junior officers just refered to him as "Speedbrakes" (quietly and behind his back) because the man had ears like Yoda...

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 5:54PM

What are we coming to, when an aviation wing is commanded by a Rear Admiral (Lower Half)?

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 7:19PM

"I served as the senior legal advisor for the Commander, Naval Air Forces, U.S. Pacific Fleet (under two 3-star admirals) with such matters as the so-called "Tailhook Scandals" and "Tomcat Follies" occurring during my watch."

Perhaps if senior officers had stood up for both the Navy and their subordinates, instead of bowing to the winds of political correctness, we wouldn't be in this mess today. By which I mean, if the CNO, the head of NAVAIR, and maybe the commanders of the Atlantic and Pacific Fleets had said, "I'm in command, these are my subordinate officers, and if anyone is to blame, it's me. So, if you want a scalp, take mine, but leave my men alone".

Nah--ain't never gonna happen in our military.

Evanston2| 1.13.11 @ 9:47PM

Stuart, Exactly right on all counts.

Roger Fortier | 1.13.11 @ 2:36PM

While I agree our culture has coarsened, let's not make Honors the fall guy for all that. Fabrizio is guilty of judging from afar, not really understanding "carrier culture," or the context of the videos. These videos constitute only a small slice of CAPT Honors' service to country. As such, Fabrizio, like all outsiders, demonstrates a failure of imagination in weighing the balance of his service. But CAPT Reynolds' statement about prison and pension is way off base and he should know better.
Here's a man who for 20 years endured long deployments away from family and friends: sacrificed the comforts of home for ship life, crowded, uncomfortable, without a shred of privacy: spent hundreds of hours piloting a jet propelled, gasoline bomb on and off the pitching deck of carriers. Honors, like all who serve combat functions, implicitly accepted and expected to place himself in mortal danger at any time and on short notice. Where's the video for all of that!

We live in an age of false pieties, where modern sensibilities easily outweigh the martial virtues celebrated for thousands of years. I guess, if like CAPT Reynolds, you piloted a desk and specialized in the arcane trivia of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, you're bound to have other ideas about virtue.

Pelligrino| 1.13.11 @ 5:03PM

You are way off base, Mr. Fortier.

Stop lauding today's officer of senior rank -- in any of our services.

Any officer with 20 years of service spent -- easily -- approx. 4.5-almost 6 of those years just going to more officer/specialty schooling.

(in other words: Not at an assignment, not responsible for anything or anyone other than his own grades. That is NOT tough duty.)

An officer with 25 or more years? Add another year or two of schooling.

More than 90% of them have advanced degrees (plural) because you as a taxpayer are so charitable as to foot the bill. And while they were attending those schools they were earning years of service/years toward retirement.

These schools are huge feathers in their caps for whatever they later decide to do in life.

And they know this.

So military duty -- over the years -- is not the unending grind of two decades or more with NO solace. That's a crock. Yet many Americans seem to think this.

Whenever we hear of someone retiring with 22 or 26 years served, we think, "My! And all that time deployed, or in intense training, nothing but gunneries, maneuvers, in ugly, lonely outposts around the globe..."

No, it is never that abysmal. Often the opposite.

You do know that all military get 30 days of leave/vacation days EACH year, yes?

And that weekends like this one -- Martin Luther King, Jr. -- are 4-day weekends. The next 4-day weekend is Presidents' Day in February. (There are 10 of these total in the year. Yes, 10 4-day weekend opportunities per year -- Note: the USAF does not do all of these)

So....do the math: If a service member gets 20 extra days (due to the 4-day weekends) and 30 days of leave….well, yes then that can frequently equate to the sum total of two months. Two months not worked in a 12-month year. Not bad.

Ask a service member here stateside how much he or she really worked in the month of December 2010. Ask and require an honest answer. Ever hear of "Half-Day Schedule?" Or “On again, off again?”

Yes, senior officers frequently forego taking some of many of the holidays.

But isn't that expected? Don't the demands of the increased responsibilities require this?

When they do so, they are often then just doing desk work. It can be tedious, intense, or just a whole lot of reading & checking, typing, and filing. But it is desk work.

Also, let's get a CURRENT aircraft carrier pilot here to tell us....

I don't think Owen Honors has been actively/routinely flying jets off any carrier for a long time now. Maybe a couple of flights while XO in 2006, 2007.

But my understanding is that the flying is done by the junior officers and O-4's.

Folks, any military person who does not say to all Americans, "Thank you for letting me serve" has the wrong mentality.

Yes, there are always days in the military that you wonder "Why am I here? Why did I agree to do this?" But the overall is a blessing. (No, not necessarily at the time) Our military infrastructure allows us to grow up, learn tasks we'd never know, meet people we'd otherwise never meet, and test our minds & bodies. That's all good stuff. We get chances to lead, get chances to take on responsibilities; we are supposed to grow up.

There is no reason to ever think that unit, wing, ship morale needs -- in today's modern US military -- or requires descending into deviancy.

We certainly don't expect 40-something officers to be so celebrating the perverted. (And thinking themselves a leader)

I am sure that the Navy Public Affairs kid doing the filming and his buddy holding the lights while filming Owen Honors -- in all these scense -- thought Honors a true fool.

But they are crewmembers. AND VERY SURE to keep their minds and mouths shut.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 5:29PM

Your estimate of the time officers spend in educational pursuits (most totally unrelated to their profession, but necessary for career purposes, nonetheless) is pretty much correct. See Martin van Creveld. "The Training of Officers", for some specifics; also his "Transformation of War", to show why such irrelevant pursuits occupy an increasing portion of an officer's career.

On flying: CAGs fly regularly and are typically O-5s. Squadron commanders are generally O-4s, but sometimes O-5s; and O-6s do fly, just not regularly. If you are a rated aviator, and on flight status, then you will log your time to maintain proficiency and qualify for flight pay.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 7:20PM

By the way, you're a bit of prig, aren't you?

Evanston2| 1.13.11 @ 9:49PM

Pelligrino, What stopped you from taking advantage of the awesome bennies provided to military officers?

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 10:19PM

His unimpeachable reticence, of course.

Evanston2| 1.15.11 @ 6:36PM

Stuart, Thanks for the smile. Officer accession was competitive when I applied, but none of us knew if the benefits were good or bad. I just knew I needed money for college when I applied for NROTC. I sure as shooting wasn't aiming 26 years down the road, and when I started active service the economy was humming. Pellegrino has unimpeachable hindsight and an armchair quarterback mentality. You and I know that different leadership styles are required in different situations, and even what works for one of us may not for another. I wouldn't have done what Honors did, but his style seems reasonable in context. The obscenities that occur in the military can be much more subtle. Not taking the time to write up awards for good men. Taking the easy way out and letting s__tbirds pull their crap, particularly SNCOs and even senior officers who undermine the mission with idiotic decisions. A career in the USMC ended up being a good thing for me. Who knew? Not me. I felt like I was going to prison when I arrived at TBS. For Pellegrino to say that my generation of officers was essentially overpaid and underworked is swell. He's entitled to his opinion: all I know is that to be eligible for promotion I was required to take courses. If resident, great, if by correspondence, well you did it on top of all your other duties. But the follow-on education wasn't my idea. The pay was beyond our control, jumps that started with the All Volunteer Force under Carter but after Reagan it seemed to roughly follow inflation, and be paired with civil service increases. I readily admit after making Maj to mainly be aiming at retirement. Further, I could have done better during my last 2 assignments. These are personal sins and since I routinely met officers whom I felt were better than me, I decidedly disagree with the assertion that they weren't working hard and doing great things. I quit right before the zone convened for Col. That way I wouldn't be taking away a promotion from someone who deserved it more, but didn't have a boss who could write a good FitRep. Anyway, this is all past. CAPT Honors' behavior belongs to a different military. As I said in a post to Pellegrino just now, this is the "new nuanced military." He can have it. I'm glad I left it. And based on my beliefs about human nature, I believe its values will translate badly to the battlefield. And that Americans will pay with their lives and limbs. But hey, what matters is that we no longer offend women like Lisa who are eating bon-bons on their sofas, or biased against homos, right? Forget assertive heterosexual masculinity, now we are sensitive. Somehow I don't think sensitivity will win the day.

Stuart Koehl| 1.16.11 @ 7:41AM

"As I said in a post to Pellegrino just now, this is the 'new nuanced military.'"

Nuanced is right. Apparently the latest target for "nuance" is pilot call signs within squadrons. These are handed out to rookies by the squadron as a whole, and tend to be both descriptive, jocular and biting (I knew one aviator who accidentally ran over a steer that wandered onto the runway during a landing; he was known forever more as "Cowboy"). Now, a JG is complaining his call sign impugns his manhood. Well, QED!

Ragging is an inherent part of military culture, and an important one, too. Men in a unit constantly tease each other, and newbies come in for more than their share, because this is how the primary group tests its members, old and new alike. If you can't take your buddies calling you names or playing practical jokes on you, how can your buddies be certain you'll stand up when the bullets begin whizzing by?

I'm sure that now, with the repeal of DADT, COs will walk on eggshells not to offend the sensibilities of those Nancy-Boy Americans who choose to out themselves among their comrades (the problem with coming out is it removes all plausible deniability, on both sides).

So, new regulations will be passed, the teasing will be toned down, just like the jody calls, the nose art and the party games. It will be a kinder, gentler, more polite military, but at some subtle level, it will be a less effective military, too. And, as I have written elsewhere, we'll only know what we have lost if we get into a shooting war with a competent enemy. Then we'll see a lot of politically correct officers roll up like a wet carpet, wholesale replacement of senior and operational commanders (same thing happened at the beginning of World War II, and even Desert Storm), and a lot of studly junior officers jumped several grades to get the job done.

Of course, a lot of guys will die needlessly in the interim, but equality means sacrifice, no?

Stuart Koehl| 1.16.11 @ 8:04AM

Here is a link to the story about call signs:

http://www.time.com/time/natio.....89,00.html

Might I suggest that the Ensign in question be assigned the call sign "Pee Wee"--though, as a squadron admin officer, he really doesn't have a call sign.

And so it begins.

Roger Fortier | 1.13.11 @ 6:30PM

Off base, I doubt it. And is that an order to "stop lauding senior officers?" I know officers with three and four year tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. So...do the math, how much time is that at a desk? Next time just title your opinion "Shut up, he explained."

The point is that a man is more than a few snippets of his life. I definately think Honors was lewd, crude and extremely low brow in the actions captured on the now famous videos. Not something I would have done. But it's a crude world out there, whether you like it or not.

And yes, I do know about leave policy. I'm a retired infanty and intelligence officer. When I retired I had over 60 days accrued, which means I didn't take my 30 days for at least two years. In Korea, my first year unaccompanied, I was allowed 19, included was travel time. Mission dependent, you know. And although I never attended post grad school on the taxpayers, I don't regret those that did, as you seem to. As far as flying time, how much is dangerous enough for you?
Clearly the rosy picture of the officer career path you paint, varies. Are you implying CAPT Honors was in the Navy because he was in it for the schools and the benefits?

The overwhelming majority of officers and enlisted serve because of love of country. I'm willing to give Honors the benefit of the doubt. Are you?

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 7:29PM

"I know officers with three and four year tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. "

I know a couple with six. Which brings up an interesting phenomenon: the military has an inverted pyramid of combat experience. By which I mean junior officers from, say O-3 to O-5 have far more combat experience than their seniors at O-6 and higher. In fact, many junior officers serving today have far more combat experience than their grandfathers did in World War II or Korea--more, in fact, than any professional military men since Napoleon's Grande Armee cut a swath from Spain to Russia from 1805 to 1815.

Yet promotions to flag rank keep going to guys whose careers do not reflect at all what the military has been doing for the last two decades. It got so bad in the Army that Secretary Gates brought back David Petraeus from Iraq to sit on the BG promotion board to ensure that the brigade commanders with real combat chops were not passed over in favor of good old boys from the armor and artillery branches and materiel commands.

The Navy's not much different. From what I have seen, the submarine service might be the worst off, thanks to the lingering legacy of Hyman Rickover. The focus on engineering in the subs is so overwhelming that tactical and operational proficiency seem to fall by the wayside (especially in comparison, say, with the Royal Navy's submariners). Someone once said to me, "One day, someone's going to drive a 688-boat up on the rocks at 30 knots, and there's one thing about which you can be certain: that boat's reactor log will be complete and up to date".

borninsocal| 1.13.11 @ 2:43PM

Can someone please explain why anyone outside the military should care how they operate as long as they accomplish their main objective, defense of America and its interests?

Pelligrino| 1.13.11 @ 5:09PM

Borninsocal, Very simple.

Because we send our kids into the military as the right thing to do for our nation (and our kids' upbringing & understanding of true life responsibilities)

And we fully expect their officers and NCO leaders to be at their utmost ALL THE TIME.

No excuses.

There is no room for moral deviants, hedonistic, or mentally deficient officers who seem to long for their Animal House days.

Our kids expect and deserve top role models.

So do the parents.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 5:30PM

Good thing you weren't around for, oh, World War II, the Korean War or the Vietnam war, just for starters.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 7:46PM

"Our kids expect and deserve top role models."

Role models? Jeesh! What about heros? Beyond that, what about commanders who will get the mission done and bring them home alive?

Who's your favorite Civil War general? Oliver O. Howard? Outstanding role model for young men, a fine, upstanding Christian gentleman, very progressive in his view of the Negro, too. Crappy commander--got lots of men killed. On the other hand, Phil Sheridan was a lousy role model--drank, cursed and womanized. Ate too much and got fat, too. But, by God, I'd rather be led by Phil Sheridan than O.O. Howard.

Or, if you want a more modern naval example, how about Creed Burlingame, skipper of the submarine Silversides during World War II. Did stuff that makes Own Honor look like a boy scout, and sank a score of Japanese ships in the process. He put a statue of Buddah in the control room, and would rub its belly for luck whenever he was maneuvering for an attack, or when Silversides was being depth charged.

His exec was a holy roller named Roy Davenport, who hated Burlingame's profanity and off-color humor (not to mention the Buddah). A much better role model for young men, our LTCDR Davenport--but a bust as a sub commander.

Did you know James "Slim Jim" Gavin, when he was commander of the 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment not only encouraged his men to pick fights with MPs and men from other regiments (in order to instill proper fighting spirit and esprit de corps), he once conspired to have bus loads of women brought onto base for a raucus party. I doubt Slim Jim would have lasted a week in today's Army. But he was a mustang--rose through the ranks--and that type typically doesn't do well, because they tend to be independent minded, if you know what I mean.

That might be why Gavin, the youngest U.S. Major General in World War II, and perhaps the finest combat leader this country has produced in the last century, retired as a LTG, never getting the fourth star he richly deserved, while many lesser men (William Westmoreland, for instance) went right on to the top.

Someone mentioned Dick Winters, who died last week. Winters left the Army after World War II, but came back briefly during the Korean War, only to retire again, for good. His reason, according to his memoirs, was the kind of bureaucratic nonsense in which the peacetime Army glories, but which simply gets in the way of completing the mission in wartime.

As I said, our problem today is we are at war, but the military continues to act as though we were at peace.

Since we are at war, let's remember that war ain't beanbag, and the military is not intended to be a finishing school for proper young men and women.

Marine| 1.14.11 @ 8:52AM

Sure the old-timers were real saints. You obviously have never met any of them.

“The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!”

Eleanor Roosevelt

Stuart Koehl| 1.14.11 @ 11:15AM

And then there is the "dogface alphabet": "F--king A, f--king B, f--king C. . . "

Just how wholesome service was, back in the day:

The venereal disease rate for soldiers serving in China and the Philippines in the 20s and 30s exceeded 30%. And just to show that your average draftee in World War II was no better, the VD rate in Italy in 1943-44 was higher than that. The military ran brothels in Hawaii, San Diego, Manilla and China before World War II, just to keep it under control. It tried to license brothels in Naples, for the same reason, but once word got out to the bluestockings, they were shut down: wholesome American boys would not frequent prostitutes. But the resurgent VD rates showed that they did.

During World War II, the average American serviceman abroad had sexual relations with four women, many of whom were professionals (or enthusiastic amateurs). With an American private paid the equivalent of a British or Australian lieutenant, and lavishly supplied with all sorts of food and luxury items, there was a great deal of truth to the Allied complaint that the Americans are "Overpaid, oversexed and over here".

As for alcohol consumptions, as I mentioned, your typical dogface could sniff out booze no matter how well hidden. The fighter and bomber boys back in the UK had an easier time of it--they could head down to the local pub, which they did, after every mission, tying one on until they had to be piled in the back of a deuce-and-a-half and taken back to base. Many had to fly the following day, so before dawn they would crawl down to the flight line, sit in the cockpit, and breathe 100% oxygen to burn the alcohol out of their system. God knows how many of our dashing flying aces went into battle nursing hellacious hangovers.

That situation did not change much in either Korea or Vietnam, and the same remedy was used to combat overindulgence.

Of course, whenever highly competitive, egotistical and masculine guys consume massive amounts of alcohol, mayhem ensues, either accidentally, in the course of energetic bar games, or deliberately in the form of knock-down brawls. The objective was the same in both cases--to relieve the almost unendurable tension of combat operations and to forget, at least for a while, that your odds of completing a tour of duty were statistically nil.

Stuart Koehl| 1.14.11 @ 6:31PM

I forgot to mention one of my favorite stories, in a compilation of memoirs by WW II enlisted men.

A soldier--from a well-bred, middle-class background--is given a furlough while his unit is redeploying, so he goes home to visit his family. Everything is fine, until dinner time. Sitting himself down at the table, he starts eating, then decides he's thirsty.

"Pass the f--king milk", he says. His mother looks stricken. His sister shrieks. His father mumbles under his breath. "Excuse me", he corrects himself. "I meant, 'Pass the milk, please'". And everyone goes back to eating as though nothing had happened.

Pelligrino| 1.13.11 @ 4:19PM

Ms. Lisa Fabrizio,
Thank you. You are the first Am. Spectator writer that I have observed getting this right.

How sad. (futher proof that being 30 - 45 years old and an American means not having to grow up)

Yes, we are indeed a nation of men and women (over the age of 30) who do not wish to grow up. And this manifests itself in immature thinking & behavior.

I expect all Annapolis graduates who rise to the officer heights to KNOW and LIVE and BE much, much better.

Ms. Fabrizio, I appreciate the obvious restraint you used when choosing your words. My compliments. I have trouble using restraint when thinking of this miscreant.

He is vulgar and childish, this Owen Honors.

No, folks, it is not the job of a senior officer to play the fool a la a court jester to somehow influence flagging (really flagging? How so?) morale.

Aboard the USS Enterprise one has 400 - 500 junior leaders and subordinates who can take care of those issues -- most all of them -- very well. (Or they should.)

An officer at this level is to be, yes, tenacious, terribly intelligent, very fit, wise (was Owen Honors cavorting the sleaze in front of cameras wisdom?) and unfailingly statesman-like in all actions.

And, yes, that's possible and fully compatible with a warrior mentality and ethic -- this is how officers are to be.

This idea that the rough old male heroic leaders of WWII lore would have condoned masturbating in front of your men is preposterous.

Thank you again, Ms. Fabrizio. Thank goodness someone in the Am. Spectator writer pool has a noggin. Mr. John Guardiano definitely is suspect.

Our nation and national defense is imperiled by amateurish 'boys' like Honors (who was 44-46! years old at the time of his videoed masturbation scenes). We will do well to root out others (and they are there) who think and behave similarly.

A guy who thinks and behaves deviantly, well, this is not someone who has your best national defense interests at heart.

Nor is he a role model (what an officer IS ALWAYS to be) for the junior officers -- he would have had 250-350 of them aboard had he sailed as CO of the USS Enterprise.

Mentoring never stops in a good military. It shouldn't. And senior officers are always to BE the BEST possible mentors.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 7:48PM

"Mentoring never stops in a good military. It shouldn't. And senior officers are always to BE the BEST possible mentors."

What does that mean to you, precisely? Someone who follows the rules and always has the proper deportment? Or someone who knows how to get things done and trains his people to carry on, regardless of the cost, until the mission is accomplished? What kind of a mentor would you want your kid to have, if he was going into battle?

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 10:20PM

"Thank you. You are the first Am. Spectator writer that I have observed getting this right."

Unctuous and smarmy, as well as a prig. With those qualifications, you could have been Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

Evanston2| 1.15.11 @ 6:58PM

The new Lisa military will "BE much, much better." And die better, too. A fighting force of risk intolerant milquetoasts. Lisa will greet their body bags with tears, at the airport. Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori. What nobility this new age military will attain. Lisa, the expert. Lisa, the model. Let's have a military made up entirely of Lisa's, shall we? We don't need primal male virtues any more. Just replace coffee with tea in the MREs and we'll be all set for the next encounter with America's enemies. I wonder what blend of tea goes best with having your head sawed off by a Muslim, or being gang raped by the Chinese (y'know, the males learned to share due to the one child policy)? No worries. That's what we thought after the Soviets collapsed. That's what we thought after Desert Storm. But we had a stone age culture then. Now the new Lisa military will BE much, much better. I can tell from the photo and 2 sentence bio at LisaFab.com that she knows best. All is well.

Stuart Koehl| 1.16.11 @ 7:59AM

"Just replace coffee with tea in the MREs and we'll be all set for the next encounter with America's enemies."

The SAS and Royal Marines have tea in their ration packs. So, too, the Gurkhas. I wouldn't mind having a couple of battalions of Gurks in our Order of Battle. Not at all.

CalMark| 1.13.11 @ 4:33PM

Captain Honors should not have gotten another command when that video came out five years ago. It shows Honors as a man of bad judgment and no dignity.

But the vitriol here is a little shocking: rants about revoking retirement benefits or exploiting the incident for self-serving reasons ("I was a Surface Warfare Officer." Hey, good for you--and oh, "Physician, heal thyself": SWOs notoriously "eat their young" and have a tiny retention rate).

In the Navy, I served under lots of buffoons like Honors, some quite vicious. It's hard to believe this was Honors' first such lapse. Such people get so far because the military is polarized and politicized: "knowing the right people" and bowing to the shibboleths (women in combat, "zero tolerance" for mistakes--by other people) goes a long way.

A man with bad judgment did some stupid things. Nobody was endangered, the Republic was not threatened. Honestly, people--get a grip.

Pelligrino| 1.13.11 @ 5:37PM

CalMark, isn’t that the problem? You served under lots of Navy officer buffoons. Shouldn't we all be concerned? I am. This is -- in very large part -- why so many of our best junior officers depart the service with disdain-in-their-stomachs at the 4-5 year served juncture.

They say (in their own vernacular), "This is for the birds!"

These junior don't see the whole picture, but they see more than enough to know that the military officer promotion/responsibility rank structure, assignments & career rewarding is broken.

They see that Buffoons succeed.

And they don't want to serve alongside or for them. Not when they realize that all t00 often these buffoons do make impact that imperils the mission OR just thwarts the fundamentals of what should be stellar leader-subordinate professional relationships.

And, yes, 'vicious buffoons' are who you too often have as your next boss or boss' boss for the next 6 - 18 months.

They are rightly so completely bewildered that we entrust our young service members, great responsibility, and key segments of our national defense to inferior idiots.

So they punch out of the military entirely. And that is at huge detriment to our national security when we lose the best (and, yes, the best decide that there are other walks of US life where they can contribute and aid our nation.)

Yes, Owen Honors should now forfeit his retirement.

There should be a stiff price to pay for 'buffoonery' while masquerading as a top US military officer.

He's been well paid since his first day at Annapolis as a midshipman in 1979.

No retirement.

This -- and all his taxpayer advanced degree education -- has been more than enough burden on the charitable, decent US taxpayer.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 6:40PM

"They see that Buffoons succeed."

They do indeed, but Owen Honors is not the kind of buffoon who worries me. Worse by far is the time-serving hack who sucks up to his superiors and tells them what they want to hear--like a former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, who went up to the hill in October of one year to tell Congress a particular weapon system was absolutely essential to the security of our nation, and who, just three months (and one presidential election) later, went back to the same congressional committee to tell them the "absolutely essential" weapon system was now a worthless piece of trash that could be cancelled with impunity. You figure out what happened.

I was present at a reception when one of my mentors walked right up to this general and called him a buffoon, right to his face. The man's jaw looked like it was going to hit the floor.

Being a four star general is a lot like being a bishop: it means you never have to eat a bad meal or hear the truth about yourself, ever again.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 6:42PM

"he fundamentals of what should be stellar leader-subordinate professional relationships."

Someone either works in human resources, or has sat through one too many management seminars, methinks.

Evanston2| 1.15.11 @ 7:05PM

Stuart, Well said. Exactly right. Amateurs talk like Lisa and Pellegrino, we know the real serious crimes are not committed on videotape in an effort to lighten up a shipboard message. CalMark's closing sentence is right: "Honestly people -- get a grip."

PJ| 1.13.11 @ 4:45PM

The military is a reflection of the society it defends. If Owen Honors is a typical officer, then America is definitely in ethical trouble.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 7:16PM

As I said, good thing you weren't around during World War II, or Korea, or Vietnam--or even World War I, for that matter.

PJ| 1.13.11 @ 10:00PM

Were you?

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 10:21PM

Might as well have been. I seem to be the only person who knows what really happened.

Old Soldier| 1.14.11 @ 8:48AM

I served with Korea and Vietnam Vets, I knew lots of WWII Vets including my father-in-law. They sure don't seem like stuffed shirt officer and gentlemen types. In fact they may be the most profane, foul-mouthed, raunchy, hard drinking people I've met.

Stuart Koehl| 1.14.11 @ 11:27AM

Indeed. I've been collecting oral histories for two decades, now. Even accounting for exaggerations due to countless retellings, some of their stories are truly remarkable.

And it is understandable. Back in World War II, about 80% of all casualties occurred in the rifle companies of infantry and armored divisions, which constituted about 25% of the personnel in each division of 13,000 men. Between D-Day and VE-Day, a typical U.S. infantry division suffered somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000 casualties (and some suffered much more), which means, statistically, each division went through its basic allotment of infantrymen two or three times. Statistically, then, there was no real chance of going home without being killed, wounded, or going nuts. Of every seven casualties suffered, two were KIA, two were seriously wounded, two were lightly wounded, and one became a psychiatric casualty. Given those odds, eat, drink and be merry.

About the same thing in the Air Force, too: more than half of all U.S. Army Air Force aircrew in Europe became casualties, the majority killed in action. It was worst for the bomber boys. With loss rates in 1943 and the first part of 1944 running to 5%, there was no statistical chance of completing a 25-mission tour of duty (which is why we made propaganda movies like "Memphis Belle" about those who made it). Later, the loss rates went down, but the length of the tour increased from 25 to 30 and finally 35 missions, so the odds still were not good.

If you think our senior officers today are "immature", what could you say back in 1944, when we had colonels in their early 20s, BGs in their late 20s, and MGs in their early 30s? And these guys led from the front, taking the same risks as their men. If they wanted to blow off steam in an immature manner, who the hell was going to stop them?

Paul Fussell (who fought in World War II) pegged it when he called his book about the GI experience "The Boys' Crusade".

Captain Albert A. Reynolds| 1.13.11 @ 6:05PM

Tomcat, yes indeed Capt Paul McCarthy was one of the two captains of the ship under whom I served when I was assigned to the "Connie." He, of course, went on to get 3-stars and command the U.S. Seventh Fleet, after which he finished his splendid career as the VCNO of Air.

His ears, yep he had ears. (:-)

Admiral McCarthy was one of the finest officers I have know. And, I can't begin to imagine him doing anything such as did Capt Honors.

COL Kryschtal, thank you sir for your service and your balanced point of view.

A. A. Reynolds

spinnaker| 1.13.11 @ 7:39PM

To give some perspective on how far the wussification of the officer corps has gone – especially the Navy – consider this classic recently received via email.

Subject: An Absolute MUST Read!!!
_______________________________

Most of you have (or should have) read Pat Conroy's incredible 1979
book "The Great Santini" You may not be aware that the real life
"Santini" (Pat's father) died back in 1998. This was Pat's Eulogy to
Don Conroy, which I hadn't seen in print until now. If you've never
seen the movie or read the book, do get it and read it. It is an
unforgettable classic.

COLONEL DON CONROY'S EULOGY
-- by his son, Pat Conroy.

The children of fighter pilots tell different stories than other kids
do. None of our fathers can write a will or sell a life insurance
policy or fill out a prescription or administer a flu shot or explain
what a poet meant. We tell of fathers who land on aircraft carriers at
pitch-black night with the wind howling out of the China Sea. Our
fathers wiped out aircraft batteries in the Philippines and set
Japanese soldiers on fire when they made the mistake of trying to
overwhelm our troops on the ground.

Your dads ran the barber shops and worked at the post office and
delivered the packages on time and sold the cars, while our dads were blowing up fuel depots near Seoul, were providing extraordinarily courageous close air support to the beleaguered Marines at the Chosin Reservoir, and who once turned the Naktong River red with blood of a retreating North Korean battalion. We tell of men who made widows of the wives of our nations' enemies and who made orphans out of all their children.

You don't like war or violence? Or napalm? Or rockets? Or cannons or death rained down from the sky? Then let's talk about your fathers,
not ours.

When we talk about the aviators who raised us and the
Marines who loved us, we can look you in the eye and say "you would not like to have been American's enemies when our fathers passed overhead". We were raised by the men who made the United States of America the safest country on earth in the bloodiest century in all recorded history. Our fathers made sacred those strange, singing names of battlefields across the Pacific: Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, the Chosin Reservoir, Khe Sanh and a thousand more. We grew up attending the funerals of Marines slain in these battles. Your fathers made communities like Beaufort decent and prosperous and functional; our fathers made the world safe for democracy.

We have gathered here today to celebrate the amazing and storied life of Col. Donald Conroy who modestly called himself by his nom deguerre, The Great Santini. There should be no sorrow at this funeral because The Great Santini lived life at full throttle, moved always in the fast lanes, gunned every engine, teetered on every edge, seized every moment and shook it like a terrier shaking a rat. He did not know what moderation was or where you'd go to look for it.

Donald Conroy is the only person I have ever known whose self-esteem was absolutely unassailable. There was not one thing about himself that my father did not like, nor was there one thing about himself that he would change. He simply adored the man he was and walked with perfect confidence through every encounter in his life. Dad wished everyone could be just like him. His stubbornness was an art form. The Great Santini did what he did, when he wanted to do it, and woe to the man who got in his way.

Once I introduced my father before he gave a speech to an Atlanta
audience. I said at the end of the introduction, "My father decided to
go into the Marine Corps on the day he discovered his IQ was the
temperature of this room". My father rose to the podium, stared down
at the audience, and said without skipping a beat, "My God, it's hot
in here! It must be at least 180 degrees".

Here is how my father appeared to me as a boy. He came from a race of giants and demi-gods from a mythical land known as Chicago. He married the most beautiful girl ever to come crawling out of the poor and lowborn south, and there were times when I thought we were being raised by Zeus and Athena. After Happy Hour my father would drive his car home at a hundred miles an hour to see his wife and seven children. He would get out of his car, a strapping flight jacketed matinee idol, and walk toward his house, his knuckles dragging along the ground, his shoes stepping on and killing small animals in his slouching amble toward the home place.

My sister, Carol, stationed at the door, would call out, "Godzilla's
home!" and we seven children would scamper toward the door to watch his entry. The door would be flung open and the strongest Marine aviator on earth would shout, "Stand by for a fighter pilot!" He would then line his seven kids up against the wall and say,

"Who's the greatest of them all?"

"You are, O Great Santini, you are."

"Who knows all, sees all, and hears all?"

"You do, O Great Santini, you do."

We were not in the middle of a normal childhood, yet none of us were sure since it was the only childhood we would ever have. For all we knew other men were coming home and shouting to their families, "Stand by for a pharmacist," or "Stand by for a chiropractor".

In the old, bewildered world of children we knew we were in the
presence of a fabulous, overwhelming personality; but had no idea we were being raised by a genius of his own myth-making. My mother always told me that my father had reminded her of Rhett Butler on the day they met and everyone who ever knew our mother conjured up the lovely, coquettish image of Scarlet O'Hara.

Let me give you my father the warrior in full battle array. The Great
Santini is catapulted off the deck of the aircraft carrier, Sicily.
His Black Sheep squadron is the first to reach the Korean Theater and American ground troops had been getting torn up by North Korean regulars. Let me do it in his voice: "We didn't even have a map of Korea. Not zip. We just headed toward the sound of artillery firing along the Naktong River. They told us to keep the North Koreans on their side of the Naktong. Air power hadn't been a factor until we got there that day. I radioed to Bill Lundin. I was his wingman. 'There they are. Let's go get 'em.' So we did."

I was interviewing Dad so I asked, "how do you know you got them?"

"Easy," The Great Santini said. "They were running - it's a good sign
when you see the enemy running. There was another good sign."

"What was that, Dad?"

"They were on fire."

This is the world in which my father lived deeply. I had no knowledge
of it as a child. When I was writing the book The Great Santini, they
told me at Headquarters Marines that Don Conroy was at one time one of the most decorated aviators in the Marine Corps. I did not know he had won a single medal. When his children gathered together to write his obituary, not one of us knew of any medal he had won, but he had won a slew of them.

When he flew back toward the carrier that day, he received a call
from an Army Colonel on the ground who had witnessed the route of the North Koreans across the river. "Could you go pass over the troops fifty miles south of here? They've been catching hell for a week or more. It'd do them good to know you flyboys are around." He flew those fifty miles and came over a mountain and saw a thousand troops lumbered down in foxholes. He and Bill Lundin went in low so these troops could read the insignias and know the American aviators had entered the fray. My father said, "Thousands of guys came screaming out of their foxholes, son. It sounded like a world series game. I got goose pimples in the cockpit. Get goose pimples telling it forty-eight years later. I dipped my wings, waved to the guys. The roar they let out. I hear it now. I hear it now."

During the Cuban Missile Crisis, my mother took me out to the air
station where we watched Dad's squadron scramble on the runway for their bases at Roosevelt Road and Guantanamo. In the car as we watched the F-4's take off, my mother began to say the rosary.

"You praying for Dad and his men, Mom?" I asked her.

"No, son. I'm praying for the repose of the souls of the Cuban pilots they're going to kill."

Later I would ask my father what his squadron's mission was during
the Missile Crisis. "To clear the air of MIGS over Cuba," he said.
"You think you could've done it?" The Great Santini answered, "There
wouldn't have been a bluebird flying over that island, son."

Now let us turn to the literary of The Great Santini. Some of you may
have heard that I had some serious reservations about my father's
child-rearing practices. When The Great Santini came out, the book
roared through my family like a nuclear device. My father hated it; my
grandparents hated it; my aunts and uncles hated it; my cousins who
adore my father thought I was a psychopath for writing it; and rumor
has it that my mother gave it to the judge in her divorce case and
said, "It's all there. Everything you need to know."

What changed my father's mind was when Hollywood entered the picture and wanted to make a movie of it. This is when my father said, "What a shame John Wayne is dead. Now there was a man. Only he could've gotten my incredible virility across to the American people."

Orion Pictures did me a favor and sent my father a telegram; "Dear Col. Conroy: We have selected the actor to play you in the coming film. He wants to come to Atlanta to interview you. His name is Truman Capote."

But my father took well to Hollywood and its Byzantine, unspeakable
ways. When his movie came out, he began reading Variety on a daily
basis. He called the movie a classic the first month of its existence.
He claimed that he had a place in the history of film. In February of
the following year, he burst into my apartment in Atlanta, as excited
as I have ever seen him, and screamed, "Son, you and I were nominated for Academy Awards last night. Your mother didn't get squat".

Ladies and gentlemen, you are attending the funeral of the most
famous Marine that ever lived. Dad's life had grandeur, majesty and
sweep. We were all caught in the middle of living lives much paler and less daring than The Great Santini's. His was a high stepping, damn the torpedoes kind of life, and the stick was always set at high
throttle. There is not another Marine alive who has not heard of The
Great Santini. There's not a fighter pilot alive who does not lift his
glass whenever Don Conroy's name is mentioned and give the fighter
pilot toast: "Hurrah for the next man to die".

One day last summer, my father asked me to drive him over to Beaufort National Cemetery. He wanted to make sure there were no administrative foul-ups about his plot. I could think of more pleasurable ways to spend the afternoon, but Dad brought new eloquence to the word stubborn. We went into the office and a pretty black woman said that everything was squared away.

My father said, "It'll be the second time I've been buried in this
cemetery." The woman and I both looked strangely at Dad. Then he
explained, "You ever catch the flick "The Great Santini? That was me
they planted at the end of the movie."

All of you will be part of a very special event today. You will be
witnessing the actual burial that has already been filmed in fictional
setting. This has never happened in world history. You will be present
in a scene that was acted out in film in 1979. You will be in the same
town and the same cemetery. Only The Great Santini himself will be
different.

In his last weeks my father told me, "I was always your best subject,
son. Your career took a nose dive after The Great Santini came out".

He had become so media savvy that during his last illness he told me
not to schedule his funeral on the same day as the Seinfeld Farewell.
The Colonel thought it would hold down the crowd. The Colonel's death was front-page news across the country. CNN announced his passing on the evening news all around the world.

Don Conroy was a simple man and an American hero. His wit was
remarkable; his intelligence frightening; and his sophistication next
to none. He was a man's man and I would bet he hadn't spend a thousand dollars in his whole life on his wardrobe. He lived out his whole retirement in a two room efficiency in the Darlington Apartment in Atlanta. He claimed he never spent over a dollar on any piece of
furniture he owned. You would believe him if you saw the furniture.

Dad bought a season ticket for himself to Six Flags Over Georgia and
would often go there alone to enjoy the rides and hear the children
squeal with pleasure. He was a beer drinker who thought wine was for Frenchmen or effete social climbers like his children.

Ah! His children.

Here is how God gets a Marine Corps fighter pilot.

He sends him seven squirrelly, mealy-mouth children who march in peace demonstrations, wear Birkenstocks, flirt with vegetarianism, invite cross-dressers to dinner and vote for candidates that Dad would line up and shoot. If my father knew how many tears his children had shed since his death, he would be mortally ashamed of us all and begin yelling that he should've been tougher on us all, knocked us into better shape - that he certainly didn't mean to raise a passel of kids so weak and tacky they would cry at his death.

Don Conroy was the best uncle I ever saw, the best brother, the best grandfather, the best friend, and my God, what a father.

After my mother divorced him and The Great Santini was published, Don Conroy had the best second act I ever saw. He never was simply a father. This was The Great Santini. It is time to leave you, Dad.

From Carol and Mike and Kathy and Jim and Tim and especially from Tom. Your kids wanted to especially thank Katy and Bobby and Willie Harvey who cared for you heroically.

Let us leave you and say good-bye, Dad, with the passwords that bind all Marines and their wives and their children forever. The Corps was always the most important thing.

Semper Fi, Dad

Semper Fi, O Great Santini.

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 7:57PM

To quote Ronald Reagan (who was quoting from the screenplay of "The Bridges of Toko-Ri"), "Where do we get such men?"

More to the point, will we see their like again?

I would say yes, because, once the shooting starts in earnest, the wheat gets separated from the chaff, the cream does rise to the top, and the warrior will stand forth, tall and unashamed, to meet the call to battle in the service of his country. I see them every day, and I pray for them. But for most of them, the climb to the top will stop with silver oak leaves or eagles--the military has no room at the top for warriors, just politicians.

JimE| 1.13.11 @ 8:17PM

Capt Honors only crime was stupidity and poor taste. The military isn't like TV or the movies. The people in it are a reflection of society. It is absurd to believe that the military can be professional and politcally correct at the same time.
If you want to win wars you need rough men whose judgement doesn't lapse in combat, everything is BS.
My liberal enlightenment friends find it troublesome that I won't play the "trouble vietnam vet" for them. I was trained and sent there to kill viet cong, I'm still here , they aren't, no remorse, no regrets.
Don't expect trained killers to come home and play PC for you.

hugh BNYN| 1.13.11 @ 11:37PM

---Modern 'pop culture' -i.e. everything, but everything POST WW2 ---was engineered, scripted, funded, nurtured and planted by
the freemasonic globalists via Stanford Research,
the Tavistock Institute et al .

It's ON record and anyone can learn about it
from informed sources online and elsewhere.

The destruction of local and traditional culture
and the family via standardization, drugs, collectivizing and discrediting 'fundamentalism',
rock, punk, rap, every variety of gender 'consciousness' and 'libertaion'
----absolutely ALLLLLL of it POST 1950.

The long term aims were and are consolidation
of world power and the eventual extermination
of 90% of humanity bu 2100.

It's in their minutes, reports, agendas, programs.

UNTIL the capstone foundations and NGO's
both here and in London are fearlessly opened,
exposed, audited and dismantled, and reponsible
directors and operatives unflinchingly prosecuted
for treason against the nation and crimes against
humanity ------NOTHING but nothing will change ---that hasn't been 'engineered' to do so.

THIS IS THE REALITY-----------AND THE ISSUE OF OUR TIME

Stuart Koehl| 1.14.11 @ 11:29AM

Why don't you put this nice, cool towel on your forehead, and sit over in the corner there, until the headaches go away?

Doug| 1.14.11 @ 5:11AM

I served 10 years in the Marine Corps and I was witness to many things by many young boys and men that would be considered raunchy and or immature. Without exception these things were disciplined when discovered by leadership that desired not only to preserve the tradition of honor in the Marines but to ensure that they did not have idiots coming up through the ranks. This commander, while possibly skilled at driving jets and dropping bombs, obviously was promoted beyond his intelligence. Anyone who gave this guy high marks on a fit rep should be disciplined as well.

I thank God that I never had a CO who was less mature than the kids coming out of boot!

Marine| 1.14.11 @ 1:49PM

You obviously never spent time swinging with the Wing!

Doug| 1.14.11 @ 2:32PM

You are correct...

Fist of the Fleet| 1.14.11 @ 8:05AM

Last year the Navy relieved Capt. Holly Graf of command based on a litany charges for behavior that had apparently been going on for years. Some of the accustaions were throwing ceramic mugs and binders at subordinates as well as one instance of choking a seaman. And oh yeah, she was a terrible shiphandler. No one under her past commands has stepped up for her defense, unlike the many who have for Honors. She is still in the Navy with a job at the Pentagon. Maybe it was because daddy was a captain and her sister and brother- in-law are Admirals, that this behavior went on for so long. No videos of the dog walking she forced subordinates to do.

Stuart Koehl| 1.14.11 @ 11:30AM

No, the answer has to do with what isn't hanging between her legs. She was the SWO's own Karen Hultgren.

Fist of the Fleet| 1.14.11 @ 9:32PM

It's Kara Hultgreen. And the situation was somwhat different. Holy Graf commanded a billion dollar vessel. Kara was dangerous to herself and those around her. She was flat out a terrible pilot who should have been able to recover from the incident. Bleed air valve stuck on the engine causing it to lose power, it is something that is trained for.
On the other hand it was 1994, the era of Clinton. Money to put women on warships, but not to replace 30 year old engine technology which put men, women and our country in harms way.

Stuart Koehl| 1.14.11 @ 11:04PM

"Kara was dangerous to herself and those around her."

Well, not entirely. Ever see what happens when someone puts a jet into the spud locker, or screws up the lineup and plows into the jets parked aft of the island? Messy. Could even put a Nimitz class carrier on the bottom.

I've seen Hultgren's PLAT tape, and can't believe she was ever qualified to land on a carrier. She screwed up her approach, and rather than admit it and go around, she tried to salvage the approach, in the process putting too much yaw on a Tomcat already flying low and with too much alpha. That blanked the starboard engine intake, resulting in the kind of compressor stall for which the TF30 was notorious. Yeah, the bleed valve stuck, but it was the turbine stall at low speed, and the resulting asymmetrical thrust, that caused the plane to snap roll and go into the drink. I'm just glad the RIO got out OK.

Stuart Koehl| 1.16.11 @ 7:46AM

You can find Hultgreen's Major Incident Report (MIR) here: http://www.panix.com/~baldwin/hultgreen_mir.txt

It makes for sobering reading: this aviator was not qualified to fly an F-14 and was plain dangerous around the boat, but they let her in, anyway. Worse, after the accident, the Navy brass put out the official line that crash was caused by "equipment failure". The MIR is very clear: the cause of the crash was pilot error, and not a single error, but a compounding of error upon error until disaster became unavoidable.

Ken| 1.14.11 @ 2:23PM

"Honors should now be court-marshaled"? One would think that a JAG Corps retired captain would know it's "court martial" not "court marshal." Makes me wonder about his "expert opinion."

REB| 1.14.11 @ 6:59PM

Its retarded to blame a generation of people for anything! You blast the boomer generation for Rapcrap music?...thats not a product of their time dummy,people need to grow up and shoulder their own responsibility...no one elses...nor their blame!

RP| 1.14.11 @ 7:14PM

I'm a bit confused here...talking 'leadership' and 'officer' in the same breath. Officers manage, Chiefs lead. Leadership is far too important to leave to the likes of academy grads.

Stuart Koehl| 1.14.11 @ 10:21PM

A speech that could not be given in today's kinder and gentler military

5 June 1944

Men, this stuff that some sources sling around about America wanting out of this war, not wanting to fight, is a crock of bullshit. Americans love to fight, traditionally. All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle. You are here today for three reasons. First, because you are here to defend your homes and your loved ones. Second, you are here for your own self-respect, because you would not want to be anywhere else. Third, you are here because you are real men and all real men like to fight. When you, here, every one of you, were kids, you all admired the champion marble player, the fastest runner, the toughest boxer, the big league ball players, and the All-American football players.

Americans love a winner. Americans will not tolerate a loser. Americans despise cowards. Americans play to win all of the time. I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost nor will ever lose a war; for the very idea of losing is hateful to an American.

You are not all going to die. Only two percent of you right here today would die in a major battle. Death must not be feared. Death, in time, comes to all men. Yes, every man is scared in his first battle. If he says he's not, he's a liar. Some men are cowards but they fight the same as the brave men or they get the hell slammed out of them watching men fight who are just as scared as they are. The real hero is the man who fights even though he is scared. Some men get over their fright in a minute under fire. For some, it takes an hour. For some, it takes days. But a real man will never let his fear of death overpower his honor, his sense of duty to his country, and his innate manhood.

Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best and it removes all that is base.

Americans pride themselves on being "He Men" and they ARE "He Men." Remember that the enemy is just as frightened as you are, and probably more so. Because they are not supermen!

All through your Army careers, you men have bitched about what you call "chicken shit drilling." That, like everything else in this Army, has a definite purpose. That purpose is alertness. Alertness must be bred into every soldier. I don't give a fuck for a man who's not always on his toes. You men are veterans or you wouldn't be here. You are ready for what's to come. A man must be alert at all times if he expects to stay alive. If you're not alert, sometime, a German son-of-an-asshole-bitch is going to sneak up behind you and beat you to death with a sockful of shit! There are four hundred neatly marked graves somewhere in Sicily, all because one man went to sleep on the job. But they are German graves, because we caught the bastard asleep before they did!

An Army is a team. It lives, sleeps, eats, and fights as a team. This individual heroic stuff is pure horseshit. The bilious bastards who write that kind of stuff for the Saturday Evening Post don't know any more about real fighting under fire than they know about fucking! We have the finest food, the finest equipment, the best spirit, and the best men in the world. Why, by God, I actually pity those poor sons-of-bitches we're going up against. By God, I do!

My men don't surrender, and I don't want to hear of any soldier under my command being captured unless he has been hit. Even if you are hit, you can still fight back. That's not just bullshit either. The kind of man that I want in my command is just like the lieutenant in Libya, who, with a Nazi Kraut poking a Luger against his chest, jerked off his helmet, swept the gun aside with one hand, and busted the hell out of the Kraut with his helmet. Then he jumped on the gun and went out and killed another German before they knew what the hell was coming off. And, all of that time, this man had a bullet through a lung. There was a real man!

All of the real heroes are not storybook combat fighters, either. Every single man in this Army plays a vital role. Don't ever let up. Don't ever think that your job is unimportant. Every man has a job to do and he must do it. Every man is a vital link in the great chain.

What if every truck driver suddenly decided that he didn't like the whine of those shells overhead, turned yellow, and jumped headlong into a ditch? The cowardly bastard could say, 'Hell, they won't miss me, just one man in thousands.' But, what if every man thought that way? Where in the hell would we be now? What would our country, our loved ones, our homes, even the world, be like?

No, Goddamnit, Americans don't think like that. Every man does his job. Every man serves the whole. Every department, every unit, is important in the vast scheme of this war. The ordnance men are needed to supply the guns and machinery of war to keep us rolling. The Quartermaster is needed to bring up food and clothes because where we are going there isn't a hell of a lot to steal. Every last man on K.P. has a job to do, even the one who heats our water to keep us from getting the 'G.I. Shits.'

Each man must not think only of himself, but also of his buddy fighting beside him. We don't want yellow cowards in this Army. They should be killed off like rats! If not, they will go home after this war and breed more cowards. The brave men will breed more brave men. Kill off the Goddamned cowards and we will have a nation of brave men.

One of the bravest men that I ever saw was a fellow on top of a telegraph pole in the midst of a furious firefight in Tunisia. I stopped and asked what the hell he was doing up there at a time like that. He answered, 'Fixing the wire, Sir.' I asked, 'Isn't that a little unhealthy right about now?' He answered, 'Yes Sir, but the Goddamned wire has to be fixed.' I asked, 'Don't those planes strafing the road bother you?' And he answered, 'No, Sir, but you sure as hell do!' Now, there was a real man. A real soldier. There was a man who devoted all he had to his duty, no matter how seemingly insignificant his duty might appear at the time, no matter how great the odds.

And you should have seen those trucks on the rode to Tunisia. Those drivers were magnificent. All day and all night they rolled over those son-of-a-bitching roads, never stopping, never faltering from their course, with shells bursting all around them all of the time. We got through on good old American guts!

Many of those men drove for over forty consecutive hours. These men weren't combat men, but they were soldiers with a job to do. They did it, and in one hell of a way they did it. They were part of a team. Without team effort, without them, the fight would have been lost. All of the links in the chain pulled together and the chain became unbreakable.

Don't forget, you men don't know that I'm here. No mention of that fact is to be made in any letters. The world is not supposed to know what the hell happened to me. I'm not supposed to be commanding this Army. I'm not even supposed to be here in England. Let the first bastards to find out be the Goddamned Germans! Someday I want to see them raise up on their piss-soaked hind legs and howl, 'Jesus Christ, it's the Goddamned Third Army again and that son-of-a-fucking-bitch Patton.' We want to get the hell over there. The quicker we clean up this Goddamned mess, the quicker we can take a little jaunt against the purple pissing Japs and clean out their nest, too. Before the Goddamned Marines get all of the credit!

Sure, we want to go home. We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it! The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home. The shortest way home is through Berlin and Tokyo. And when we get to Berlin, I am personally going to shoot that paper hanging son-of-a-bitch Hitler. Just like I'd shoot a snake!

When a man is lying in a shell hole, if he just stays there all day, a German will get to him eventually. The hell with that idea. The hell with just sitting back and taking it! My men don't dig foxholes. I don't want them to. Foxholes only slow up an offensive. Keep moving. And don't give the enemy time to dig one either. We'll win this war, but we'll win it only by fighting and by showing the Germans that we've got more guts than they have; or ever will have. We're not going to just shoot the sons-of-bitches, we're going to rip out their living Goddamned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun cocksuckers by the bushel-fucking-basket!

War is a bloody, killing business. You've got to spill their blood, or they will spill yours! Rip them up the belly. Shoot them in the guts. When shells are hitting all around you and you wipe the dirt off your face and realize that instead of dirt it's the blood and guts of what once was your best friend beside you, you'll know what to do!

I don't want to get any messages saying, 'I am holding my position." We are not holding a Goddamned thing. Let the Germans do that! We are advancing constantly and we are not interested in holding onto anything, except the enemy's balls! We are going to twist his balls and kick the living shit out of him all of the time. Our basic plan of operation is to advance and to keep on advancing regardless of whether we have to go over, under, or through the enemy. We are going to go through him like crap through a goose; like shit through a tin horn!

From time to time there will be some complaints that we are pushing our people too hard. I don't give a good Goddamn about such complaints. I believe in the old and sound rule that an ounce of sweat will save a gallon of blood. The harder WE push, the more Germans we will kill. The more Germans we kill, the fewer of our men will be killed.

Pushing means fewer casualties. I want you all to remember that.

There is one great thing that you men will all be able to say after this war is over and you are home once again. You may be thankful that twenty years from now when you are sitting by the fireplace with your grandson on your knee and he asks you what you did in the great World War II, you WON'T have to cough, shift him to the other knee and say, 'Well, your Granddaddy shoveled shit in Louisiana.'

No, Sir, you can look him straight in the eye and say, 'Son, your Granddaddy rode with the Great Third Army and a Son-of-a-Goddamned-Bitch named Georgie Patton!'

"That is all."

Richard Baker| 1.15.11 @ 2:31PM

Stuart:
I looked up Kara Hultgreen and noticed she is buried at Arlington. Why? Since the criteria for admission to Arlington had risen even before her death, I'm at a loss as to figure out why she's there. Maybe you can enlighten.

Stuart Koehl| 1.15.11 @ 4:22PM

"I'm at a loss as to figure out why she's there. Maybe you can enlighten."

Get with the program, dude! She's there because she heroically gave her life to prove that women can fly combat aircraft in operational squadrons. OK, so that didn't work out, but she's a woman, and if you criticize her, you are just a sexist pig, almost certainly a racist (so what if Hultgren was white?) and probably a homophobe. Turn in your papers, and spare us the trouble of drumming you out of the service.

Stuart Koehl| 1.15.11 @ 4:23PM

Or, to put it in another way, in the military, when someone messes up, he "screws the pooch"; however, some pooches just can't be screwed. Kara Hultgren, in her career, was an unscrewable pooch. It got her killed. Why should the pooch not remain unscrewable even after death?

Fist of the Fleet| 1.15.11 @ 9:07PM

No one ever hears about the poor bastard whose slot was taken by the deceased Lt. Hutgreen. Somewhere there is a dude who should have been flying that plane instead of her. There are many women in slots right now filling billets that qualified men should be in, but due to PC and the fact that when women "get pregnant" they can't go to sea. Nice to have that chit in your back pocket when you are looking at another deployment.

Stuart Koehl| 1.16.11 @ 7:55AM

This is a little known scandal and a major cause of resentment against women within the armed services. A woman who gets pregnant is given several choices: she can leave the service with an honorable discharge; she can transfer temporarily to a CONUS billet; if in an MOS that is hazardous to the unborn child, she can switch to a new MOS; if deploying or deployed, she can come home.

This applies whether the woman is married or single, whether the child is legitimate or illegitimate.

If the woman is not married, or conceived the child in circumstances that ensure the father is not her husband, this is a violation of the UCMJ. Many women become pregnant in circumstances that make it obvious the pregnancy was the result of "fraternization", yet there are no negative consequences to the woman.

Many women become pregnant just before a deployment, yet there are no negative consequences for the woman.

Many women DO get pregnant for the explicit purpose of getting out of a deployment, thus creating a whole in the TO&E at a critical moment, and undermining the mission readiness of the unit. A lot of those women, as soon as their unit is safely overseas, abort their child--again, without negative consequences.

A double standard pertains here. A man who contracts a venereal disease, thereby rendering himself temporarily unfit for service, has committed a military offense. At the very least, a reduction in rank and forfeiture of pay, or an Article 15 hearing, maybe even some time in the brig. For an officer, it's a career ender, like a DWI offense. But women can get pregnant, and it has no effect on their career trajectory whatsoever. Even if senior officers suspect the woman is gaming the system for her own advantage, they dare not act on their suspicions, because women play under different rules, and a man's career can end up in the trash if the merest hint of "sexism" attaches to him.

matt| 1.15.11 @ 10:10PM

I'm not even inthe military ,but when t.v. shows such as mash and gomer pyle was on the american people never thought anything of the comical side of things now you have don't ask don't tell and it's all to hell

Will| 1.16.11 @ 5:58AM

I'd be curious to learn just how much sea duty Reynolds has under his belt. Or is he one of those ubiquitous officers seen strolling around D.C. Newport, etc. with a briefcase and twenty years at the helm of a desk? I didn't much care for Honors performance, but this?, chickenshit. I'm far more concerned with the quickly vanishing Court Martial of the jihadi Major Nidal, and his now faceless victims. What is up with that Jag-meister? Oh yeah, and that smirking Nancy-boy Pvt. Manning too!

CAPT Albert A. Reynolds Jr.| 1.17.11 @ 2:48PM

Fair question Will. Here is part of a post I made earlier on this thread.

Capt Albert A. Reynolds Jr.| 1.13.11 @ 2:28PM

Brian B, excellent question about how a "JAG officer" spells court-martialed. The answer is, not very well in this instance. Good catch.

I've also served tours of duty at two naval air stations (under four 0-6's) as station legal officer.

I've served as legal officer for two aviation training wings (under two 0-6's), and one functional air wing (under two 1-star admirals).

I served as the senior legal advisor for the Commander, Naval Air Force, U.S. Pacific Fleet (under two 3-star admirals) with such matters as the so-called "Tailhook Scandals" and "Tomcat Follies" occurring during my watch.

So, master chief, you may want to cut me some slack about having not been there, you know?

Anyway, Will, I would be interested in your view of my qualifications to have an opinion in the matter of Capt Owen Honors. Let me hear back, won't you?

A. A. Reynolds

Stuart Koehl| 1.17.11 @ 6:37PM

I'm thinking it's a sad day indeed when the lawyers run the fleet. Chalk up another victory for lawfare over warfare.

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Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 5:16PM

RAMIII| 1.13.11 @ 5:46PM

Pelligrino| 1.13.11 @ 7:28PM

RAMIII| 1.14.11 @ 9:11AM

ClaudeM| 1.13.11 @ 10:12AM

CDR D (Ret)| 1.13.11 @ 10:16AM

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 1:21PM

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 2:16PM

Jacob McCandles| 1.13.11 @ 11:55AM

GENE HAUBER| 1.13.11 @ 1:12PM

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 1:22PM

Quartermaster| 1.13.11 @ 7:34PM

Quartermaster| 1.13.11 @ 7:37PM

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 8:07PM

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 7:59PM

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 1.13.11 @ 6:48AM

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 1.13.11 @ 7:38AM

GreginOkinawa| 1.13.11 @ 8:46AM

Appleby| 1.13.11 @ 6:54AM

RAMIII| 1.13.11 @ 4:08PM

PCPSmoker| 1.13.11 @ 7:38AM

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 2:14PM

Mike Kryschtal| 1.13.11 @ 8:09AM

txn4ever| 1.13.11 @ 5:38PM

Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 1.13.11 @ 8:18AM

Broken LT| 1.13.11 @ 9:16AM

RAMIII| 1.13.11 @ 4:12PM

Old Soldier| 1.13.11 @ 8:49AM

Bruce| 1.13.11 @ 9:08AM

Old Soldier| 1.13.11 @ 9:21AM

David| 1.13.11 @ 9:06AM

WilliamInWien| 1.13.11 @ 9:20AM

tdiinva| 1.13.11 @ 9:23AM

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 1:20PM

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 9:23AM

Old Soldier| 1.13.11 @ 9:53AM

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 1:15PM

Bizzy Brain| 1.13.11 @ 9:24AM

Arch| 1.13.11 @ 10:15AM

Richard Baker| 1.13.11 @ 10:36AM

Ed| 1.13.11 @ 10:41AM

Old Soldier| 1.13.11 @ 12:38PM

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 2:07PM

Pelligrino| 1.13.11 @ 6:32PM

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 8:14PM

Old Soldier| 1.14.11 @ 8:38AM

Stuart Koehl| 1.14.11 @ 10:59AM

L. Ross| 1.13.11 @ 11:39AM

Stuart Koehl| 1.14.11 @ 6:49AM

Seek| 1.13.11 @ 11:40AM

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 2:08PM

Brian B| 1.13.11 @ 12:46PM

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 2:25PM

Tomcat| 1.13.11 @ 1:00PM

CDR D (Ret)| 1.13.11 @ 8:30PM

MCPO Airdale| 1.13.11 @ 1:00PM

Old Soldier| 1.13.11 @ 1:17PM

Stuart Koehl| 1.13.11 @ 8:14PM

Intricon| 1.13.11 @ 1:46PM

Evanston2| 1.13.11 @ 2:19PM

Capt Albert A. Reynolds Jr.| 1.13.11 @ 2:28PM

COL Mike Kryschtal, USA (RET)| 1.13.11 @ 3:51PM

Pelligrino| 1.13.11 @ 6:02PM

COL Mike Kryschtal, USA (Ret.)| 1.13.11 @ 6:34PM

Pelligrino| 1.14.11 @ 7:36AM