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The Nation's Pulse
Tucson and the Left’s Online Orgy of Accusation
And when inconvenient facts intrude, a new fevered narrative emerges.
The Left’s effort to link Jared Loughner’s actions to conservative talk radio, hate speech, Sarah Palin’s targets, etc. had nothing to do with urging us all to consider the consequences of political statements and symbols. Rather, it’s part of a constant campaign to use the Web organize and energize its base around sensational narratives consistent with an ideological or cultural view as substitute for facts or events as they really unfold. The deliberate use of the Web to create instant mobs or spread fear has long-term consequences for our ability to function as a society.
While the Left or liberal outlets are not alone in this using the Internet for such purposes, they are more likely to adopt and spread as “truth” whatever fits their narrative, ignoring facts that conflict with the story line when they emerge. In recent years MoveOn.org willingly posted hateful and untrue comments about Israel and its supporters during the 2006 Lebanon War. Back then, comments (which the majority of MoveOn respondents supported) included: “Media owning Jewish pigs,” “sneaky Jewish sympathizers!” and “As we’ve already agreed, most of these GREEDY PIGS are Jewish.”
The Daily Kos was not far behind, allowing one blogger to suggest “gassing Joe Lieberman like a dog” and another comparing Israel’s foreign minister to Adolf Hitler. The Huffington Post recently ran a sketch depicting the assassination of President George W. Bush.
I am not blaming these sites for the increase in anti-Jewish hate crimes across the United States. Rather, they demonstrate the extremes to which such blogs go to reinforce a worldview and deviate from the facts. Blogs and websites can promote conversations. But more often they create crowds — or mobs — that make it more difficult and dangerous to address real problems in a factual way: A “Google” search of “Sarah Palin and crosshairs” yields 705,000 hits. Search for “Jared Loughner and mental illness” and you get 57,000 citations.
Yet as soon as it became clear that Loughner’s rants, online postings, and behavior had nothing to do with conservative politics or Sarah Palin, a new liberal narrative emerged: Loughner’s mental illness went undiagnosed and untreated because of cuts in mental health funding. So conservative rhetoric didn’t pull the trigger, conservative healthcare policies did. Hence, the New Republic’s Jon Cohn writes: “We may never know whether a better mental health care system would have averted this massacre. But we can be sure that it would avert some future ones.”
In fact, Arizona spends more per capita on mental illness than 36 other states. Neal Cash, president of the Community Partnership of Southern Arizona, the organization that provides mental health services to Tucson and Pima County for the state, told the Washington Post that while “$50 million has been cut in the last two fiscal years — he said that no one diagnosed seriously mentally ill has been turned down for services.”
Nor are there high legal hurdles for court ordered treatment: Arizona’s standard is need for treatment, not the threat of harm to others or oneself.
Finally, several people brought Loughner’s behavior to the attention of college and law enforcement officials, though it is unknown if his parents were unable or unwilling to report his behavior, even after being contacted by Pima Community College.
It is difficult for people with severe mental illness to avoid harm or violence even under the best of circumstances. Nearly half of those with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder with psychoses go untreated. They often don’t believe they are ill and their families are often unable to get them to seek treatment or in denial.
So solutions are limited. Increasing the use of court-ordered outpatient treatment and medication is associated with a reduction in violent behavior. But many people, particularly on the Left, object to any form of imposed medical care or increased use of medication. (A topic I’ll discuss in another column.)
The Left’s online accusation orgy initially drained time and attention from the courage, character, and grace of those affected by or involved in the tragedy. But the genuine response to crisis exposed the shallowness of the Left’s reaction and more. In particular, the words of John Green, the father of Christina Taylor Green, the nine-year-old girl gunned down by Loughner last Saturday, brought tears of comfort to our nation:
She came into the world on 9/11 and then at nine years old she leaves it all on this terrible day. But we wouldn’t take it back — any of the nine years we had with her.
It was all worth it. But we still believe in this country.
About the Author
Robert M. Goldberg is vice president of the Center for Medicine in the Public Interest and founder of Hands Off My H ealth, a grass roots health care empowerment network. His is new book, Tabloid Medicine: How the Internet is Being Used To Hijack Medical Science For Fear and Profit, was published last month by Kaplan.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (112) | Leave a comment
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Boogeer | 1.11.11 @ 6:10AM
From the desk of Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik:
Dear Fellow Citizens and Voters,
It pains me to have to reflect on the tragic events that befell our beloved community this past Saturday. While there will no doubt be a time to grieve the losses we have sustained as a community, this is not the time. No, now is the time to assess blame.
We live in troubled times, with all sorts of troubled folks ambling around, spouting off all kinds of troubled stuff and nonsense that gets picked up on by even more troubled folks who then go out and do troubling things. The kind of troubling things that troubled our entire community this past Saturday. I myself am deeply troubled by all this troubled, rambling nonsense we hear and see all day long, every day. It's high time someone took the trouble to do something about these troubles, and that troubled someone is me.
Now look, the first thing you have to understand is that my office has been on top of all this trouble from the get-go. The fact of the matter is this troubled young fellow has been making trouble for about four years now, and we've got a file thicker than your momma's pancakes on him. He made trouble when he was in high school. He was too troubled to get into the army. He made trouble at the local junior college until they took the trouble to kick him out. He had been making troubling threats to the Congress lady here as far back as 2007. In short this young fellow was nothing but trouble.
What, you might ask, did my office do about this? We did exactly what you should always do with a troubled young troublemaker like this. We didn't start any trouble. If you will only take the time and trouble to cogitate on that for a few minutes, you'll see my logic was airtight. This troubled kid was looking for trouble, so I made sure all of my deputies took special trouble not to start any trouble with him. Did we have troubling reports of him threatening his teachers and classmates, using drugs, and even posting troubling online threats against the Congress lady? Of course we did. That's why we took extra trouble not to start trouble with this young fellow. Because if we did, who knows what kind of trouble we might have accidentally stirred up?
But then along comes this Rush Limbaugh fellow, stirring up all kinds of trouble with the troublesome nonsense he turns out on that trouble making radio show of his. After all, where do you think a troubled young man like this gets these kind of troubling ideas? Don't give me all that hogwash about drugs, schizophrenia, reading the communist manifesto and mein kampf, or attending public schools. None of that stuff ever stirred up this kind of trouble, no matter how troubled the kid might be. No, only the dark prince of evil talk radio, the trouble making Rush Limbaugh, could bring this kind of trouble down on our heads.
Now I will admit, we have not yet found definitive proof that this young man actually listened to Rush Limbaugh, but I tell you that is even more troubling. After all, if Rush Limbaugh could cause this kind of troubling behavior in some poor troubled youth who never even listened to his radio program, what kind of trouble do you think he is stirring up in the troubled masses of mind numbed robots who listen to his show? Big trouble, that's what kind!
So once again, rest assured that no fault lies with my office in this shooting. We took into account the troubling propensity for violence in this troubled youth and avoided starting any trouble with him. As a result, we can safely surmise that only the dark prince of trouble makers, Rush Limbaugh, could have been responsible for this shooting. We'll just have to see if our local prosecutor can trouble himself into finding some way to file the indictment against Limbaugh and get him off the air once and for all. I know it sound extremes, but troubled times call for troubling actions.
Sincerely,
Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik
http://beautifulletters-bls.blogspot.com/
Anthony| 1.11.11 @ 2:33PM
Once again, right on!! Listening to Rush, it appears ole Dupnik is nothing more than a D hack of the first order.
He's is on national T.V. blaming everybody but himself. Appears Dupnik had a file on this kid going back to 2007, before Palin and the Tea Party.
I guess ole Dupnik failed to CONNECT THE DOTS, right you lefties? I give Dupnik 2 months before the Arizona media reveal all of Dupnik's failed efforts to stop this kid before this horrible incident.
Maybe he and Mike Nifong can open a deli together.
Jullou | 1.11.11 @ 6:49PM
Okay, now we're getting the rest of the story. Sheriff Dupnik is more like a politician than a law enforcer.
(The Hill)- In a floor speech nearly three years ago, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid praised the sheriff investigating the deadly Arizona shooting spree who has faced criticism from the right.
Reid (D-Nev.) took to the Senate floor on April 15, 2008, to praise the “truly commendable” 50-year law enforcement career of Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik.
“Clarence Dupnik is known as a man of action, integrity and innovation,” Reid said. “These skills have been invaluable to his 50 years of service to Arizona, and the nation.”
A number of media figures and lawmakers, including conservative talk-radio host Rush Limbaugh, have criticized Dupnik for saying that a high level of political “vitriol” was connected to the incident that ended with Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (Ariz.) being shot in the head at close range.
Dupnik, on the Saturday of the shooting, blasted “the vitriol and rhetoric we hear day in and day out from people on radio, on TV,” and called Arizona “the mecca of prejudice and hatred.”
GavInTucson| 1.12.11 @ 12:50AM
Jullou, you said, "Sheriff Dupnik is more like a politician than a law enforcer."
You've got it spot on, in more ways than you know. He's been a media whore before, more interested in grabbing headlines with opinionated rambling, as opposed to just dealing in the facts and evidence.
Richard| 1.11.11 @ 10:02PM
"Now I will admit, we have not yet found definitive proof that this young man actually listened to Rush Limbaugh, but I tell you that is even more troubling. After all, if Rush Limbaugh could cause this kind of troubling behavior in some poor troubled youth who never even listened to his radio program, what kind of trouble do you think he is stirring up in the troubled masses of mind numbed robots who listen to his show? Big trouble, that's what kind!"
bwahahaha what an incompetent moron.
Dupnik is evidently the "troubled" one. Perhaps the state of AZ has a place for him at one of their institutions.
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 1.11.11 @ 6:40AM
The article contains some good points but the thing to focus on is how much the government spends on mental health care.
Jared Loughner was a nut and I doubt if he will ever be convicted of anything. If he is, he will be treated like Mark Chapman or other nuts from the past like John Hinckley Jr.
In 2006 John Hinckley Jr was allowed to go home and wander the populace by the same government that had incarcerated him.
Perhaps, part of the problem is that the government is too involved in everything, including mental health care.
On another note, it's been established that while Sheriff Dupnik was pontificating on national TV he had already found out that Loughner had made death threats and had severe mental problems. Dupnik is a Democrat and did the nation a disservice by misleading the public like that.
Nancy in NC| 1.11.11 @ 8:04AM
And what would you like him to be convicted of...mental illness?
The ignorance of mental illness is overwhelming. There is a difference being evilness (think Keith O or Nidal Hassan) and mental illness. If he had exhibited the signs of a physical disease that was a danger to the public, someone would have intervened.
This young man should never walk free among us again, for our safety not his. However, it's a waste of time to convict someone of being extremely ill.
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 1.11.11 @ 9:35AM
Your comment is misplaced. I'm only commenting on the fact that the government controls both sides of the equation and not that well. It isn't ignorant to offer an opinion. Ignorance is apparent when someone is attacked for offering an opinion.
MikeD| 1.11.11 @ 11:37AM
We are well past the time when mental illness can be blamed for actions like this. I'm sure I'll be vilified and insulted, but maybe we need to remove violent medical misfits from the gene pool. They certainly have no place in the society. If a violent mental patient cannot be permanently removed from any opportunity to harm others, maybe they just need to be removed. (sic.)
Of course, that brings up the very serious argument of who makes these decisions and on what grounds? The old USSR used mental health processes as a convenient way to silence, and then remove, critics of the Soviet System. I wouldn't put it past barry and his dems to do that.
In somebody's eyes, we're all a bit crazy.
Harry the Horrible| 1.11.11 @ 3:31PM
I don't really care if he was mentally ill.
He should still end his life on the gallows, or, in this pathetic day and age, strapped to a gurney with a IV in his arm.
wodiej| 1.11.11 @ 10:14AM
Apparently you don't know the law in Arizona. We don't know yet if they or the Feds will take precedence over this case. If the politically correct gov't goes first, he will likely be sent to a mental hospital. If Arizona goes first he will likely go to a mental hospital as well. However, Arizona's insanity defense is Guilty but Insane. If the person is deemed fit to be released from the asylum, they are sent straight to prison.
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 1.11.11 @ 11:54AM
To wodiej: You really are quite the optimist.
Appleby| 1.11.11 @ 6:57AM
Using the word *troubled* instead of the words *mentally ill* is one of the errors of modern times, much as the word *gentleman* to refer to a mass murderer or *child* for a 17 year old serial rapist.
Truth in labeling would both save a lot of confusion and obtain the proper care and treatment for those who are not *troubled* but in fact are insane.
Sea_Hunter| 1.11.11 @ 9:15AM
Unfortunately truth in labeling would offend the offender, and gosh, we can't have that.
Sam Vaughn| 1.11.11 @ 11:14AM
Agreed,
Anybody who has ever had any experience with a paranoid schizophrenic knows that they would see shadows of conspiracy in the Sahara at high noon. Throw bipolar disorder into the mix and you have a powder keg of potential maniac behaviour. This has been going on since the dawn of mankind.
The behaviour is easy to see once you scrape the surface but impossible, in a politically correct world, to simply call someone crazy. Paranoid schizophrenics can be incredibly intelligent, the one I knew was Mensa level. He knew how to push back. Nevertheless, he's one moment away from pushing a bystander off a train platform and nobody you tell in positions of authority are willing to consider that somebody might actually be crazy..... Nope they always play the victim card..... it's not his fault it's societies fault, it's your fault. After this experience I've come to believe that evil exists and it's malevolence holds no bounds, let alonw party affiliation. A re-run of the Mickey Mouse Club could set him off......
East Texas Rancher| 1.11.11 @ 7:09AM
Years ago I received a hard earned Master's Degree in Special Education. One of the areas I certified in was Behaviorally Disordered Students. In the early 1970's until the end of the the decade I saw many such students. Some of them used drugs, others had issues in their home life, only a very few could be considered for placement in a facility where they would not be dangerous to anyone. Then, the libs, not satisfied with any institutionalization for any reason, took all that way. If they had brought a replacement system to the course of serving folks, that would have been acceptable (perhaps, as some people are better served by institutions whose sole job is caring for severely affected), but they did not. Instead we saw many needing short or long stays being thrown onto society. It was a desperate situation and the years have not made it any different. We read that a large percentage of the homeless are mentally ill. Many die on the streets now, instead of being hospitalized and helped.
This young man had a set of problems so large as to be noticed by everyone who dealt with him for even a small amount of time. The good kind libs took away any chance for his hospitalization BEFORE he turned a gun onto a crowd of people. Now, the only idea they bring to the table is to take away our guns and shut up conservative talk show hosts.
East Texas Rancher
Nancy in NC| 1.11.11 @ 7:55AM
The left prefers to just give these people some money and send them on their way. They don't want to look at this problem; after all, we wouldn't want someone civil liberties to be offended. We wait until they destroy some else's liberty to live before we see the problem.
Peter| 1.11.11 @ 7:34AM
Liberalism is a mental disorder
Nancy in NC| 1.11.11 @ 7:50AM
It seems to me from the scant evidence we have about this very ill young man is that the system failed him and us. (I say scant as the media offers much more evidence to crucify the right than reveal the real problems of his mental illness.)
Ignorance and fear of mental illness caused those who witnessed the evidence of this young man's danger to others to do nothing than to temporarily remove him from the scene...they sent him back to his "cave" to wallow in his sick mind.
I bet there are several people that are feeling guilty about the unwillingness to do anything about the openly sickness this young man protrayed. If he had shown equally obvious signs of a physical illess, someone would have intervened. Our ignorance of mental disease is woefully showing.
The major symptom of mental illness is an unwillingness or inability to know you are ill. It's a very difficult disease to treat, but until we begin to recognize it, we will remain at the mercy of the hands of the ill.
This situation gives us an opportunity to discuss this serious problem, but the media is intent on prescribing blame rather than seeing the problem as it truly is.
Vern Crisler| 1.11.11 @ 8:38AM
It is too bad people start turning this creep into a victim. This is one of the baneful consequences of the "mental illness" industry.
Nancy in NC| 1.11.11 @ 12:24PM
He is not a victim; that is not my intent.
It's documented that several people were afraid of this guy, and thought he was dangerous. That's where it ended.
Media is quick to try to destroy the right. The sherriff is trying to cover his a$$, as he was responsible for issuing the gun permit.
We can't turning away from obvious signs of mental illness and then cry fox after the chickens are destroyed in the hen house. I'm trying to say that we as a society need to be aware of disturbed people, and DO SOMETHING before it's too late.
Al Adab| 1.11.11 @ 10:22AM
Nancy,
The one problem I see in your approach is that if we define all deviant behavior as "mental illness" ultimately we institutionalize political dissent. Surely anyone who opposes President Al Naqis does so out of mental incapacity and deserves our sympathy and treatment. The danger in the approach is quite clear.
Melvin| 1.11.11 @ 7:58AM
It's kinda funny that the government will fight tooth and nail, and to the death if need be to try to remove children from homes that practice homeschooling, but allow a certifiable insane young man to walk the streets, with all the warning signs and switches that are lit up like a Christmas tree.
Person after person in public service has started to step up and say, "Yes, Loughner is an extremely unstable young man, and it is only a matter of time before he hurts someone."
This kid was nuts and people knew about it. but nothing was done. Why wasn't Loughner at least evaluated one time?
A kid farts in a high school classroom nowadays and he gets hauled off by the recourse officer, and cited. So how did Loughner slip through the grains of sand in the AZ desert?
Stephanie| 1.11.11 @ 10:32AM
Many want to know, because this 22 yr. old man did live with mom and dad, what the hell his parents were doing while he was worshiping a skull in their backyard.
Patrick| 1.11.11 @ 11:41AM
Because the fart is only evil if it offends the PC culture. Ranting over changing the currency of the US to marijuana is totally acceptable.
michigander_sandusky| 1.11.11 @ 9:57PM
Thanks for the great comment Melvin!
Useful idiot| 1.11.11 @ 8:08AM
I was a grad-student at University of Wisconsin when Kennedy was shot. I thought we should Nuke Dallas. One of the professors gave a great speech on how violence and hate had caused this tragedy. THEN WE WERE SURPRISED TO FIND THAT LEE HARVY OSWALD WAS A RED!
I remember saying to an aquaintence when Oswald was shot (this lets you off.) The point is that for the last 40 years the reaction to an assassination has been to blame "atmosphere of hate" rather than the perp.
Anthony| 1.11.11 @ 12:41PM
Good point, and also Sirhan Sirhan was a Middle Eastern Israel hater. Bobby Kennedy was a supporter of Israel.
I read some years ago, can't remember the name of the author, that these facts have, according to the author, sent the American left into a tailspin that they have never recovered from.
The author was right.
SonOfSam| 1.11.11 @ 8:30AM
So let me get all the facts together:
The accused killer is a pot smoking, mentally ill dude with a penchant for dark clothing, heavy metal vomit music, creeping out his classmates and grooving out to those literary classics "The Communist Manifesto" and "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest". He was kicked out of college and denied admission to the armed forces because he is an obvious whack job
His victims included a conservative Republican church going federal judge, a Blue Dog Democrat who is a strong defender of the Second Amendment and border security, and a nine year old girl with no known political affiliations of any kind
The "progressive" knee jerk reaction among the academic, political and media "elites" has been to blame Sarah Palin, the Tea Party, Fox News and talk radio for the tragedy. A left wing dope smoking nutcase is the alleged shooter, and somehow, its all the fault of them damned bitter clingers who think the people's government should live within its means just as we the people must and do
If that about sums it up -- and I believe it does -- then I can offer the following observations:
A) there is a reason why I use the term ObamaNazi. It describes political extremists who are most assuredly NOT liberals, at least not in the sense that my Democrat registered wife is a liberal
B) It is clear as day that we cannot EVER have a reasonable debate or discussion with said ObamaNazis. They've made up their minds that anyone who believes that we should take the Constitution seriously has a "fetish", that opposition to ObamaCare is solely because of the Presidents skin color, and that we are, in the words of our beloved commander in chief, "bitter clingers" who cannot be trusted to behave rationally
C) I continue to hope that people who are liberals like my wife is a liberal will react with public outrage over the "progressive" ObamaNazi hijacking of the term liberal, and its continued use in poisonous attacks against those of us who happen to disagree with them
D) Anyone who would try to exploit the death of a nine year old girl by making ridiculous baseless charges against their political opponents are beneath contempt. I might be so inflammatory as to say that I hope they die from the shame, but I'm not wishing death on anyone, and besides, it seems abundantly clear that this lot has no damned shame
Founder| 1.11.11 @ 9:55AM
"ObamaNazi"? What would things be like if you gave up name-calling for just one day?
Yikes!| 1.11.11 @ 10:10AM
Founder: the Left always employs name-calling until they get caught fanning the flames, then they cry that “we all" should be civil. They can't stand being proven guilty.
Al Adab| 1.11.11 @ 11:21AM
Name calling? Like Bushitler?
Son Of Sam| 1.11.11 @ 11:52AM
ObamaNazi is not name calling, but an accurate descriptive:
A) They use the Big Lie technique pioneered by Hitler and Goebbels. The JFK assassination? Caused by "right wing hate" in Dallas, not a communist with a carbine. The Oklahoma City bombing? Yup, that was caused by Rush Limbaugh, and it had NOTHING to do with McVeigh's stated objective of revenge for Waco and Ruby Ridge. Protests against the imposition of ObamaCare? Must be caused by racist hate against the President.
B) They make use of fascist economics, whereby Big Government colludes with Big Business to squeeze the middle class and small business owners. Like what they did with "ObamaCare" where a trillion dollar federal government is forcing us to buy a product from a billion dollar insurance company. Like what they did with a Wall Street "reform" bill that specifically excludes Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Like an administration which goes through a dog and pony show railing against "Wall Street" then has an administration chock full of execs from Goldman Sachs, et al. For that matter, how's about Kelo vs New London? A city council decides to seize a woman's property to benefit, not the community, but a billion dollar drug company. And who votes to uphold this bastardization of the Constitution and eminnent domain but the "liberal" members of the Supreme Court?
C) They hate free speech. Hence the immediate calls in the wake of this tragedy to pass laws banning "inflammatory" comments about public officials. To say nothing of trying to sneak back the "Fairness Doctrine" to squelch talk radio, and impose net "neutrality" so they can squeeze the life out of free speech online. How's about that bloated plutocrat Senator Jay Rockefeller suggesting that the FCC simply ban Fox News?
D) They violence and threats to get their way. Like those nutjobs who were sent to the private homes of AIG executives. Like Obama's chief of staff Rahm Emmanuel sending out dead fish wrapped in newspaper, just like the mafia of old. Like the Black Panthers waving clubs at voters, and an Attorney General who protects these little thugs. Like the candidate Obama promising to bring a gun to a knife fight. Like President Obama telling Republicans, you lost I won sit down and shut up and get in the back seat of the car
That's why they are ObamaNazis, Founder. They are not liberals...my wife is a liberal, and she despises these people. They are not "progressives" since marching backwards into tyranny is not progress.
You sir, need to do your homework before you run your mouth again
Walkthetalk| 1.11.11 @ 10:08AM
Great sum son of Sam, although the truths you enumerate are but the outward manifestation of the real disease that lies hidden behind the actions and rhetoric. What causes such actions by the left? And why are they all so predictable in their perpetual blaming of the Right for everything? Why are they so full of self-righteous indignation? Why are they so full of thinly disguised hate? The answer is SIN. Yes, that much maligned outdated denigrated word that means to turn away from God. On the surface sin looks like a mental illness, with hatred, lying, finger-pointing, loud screaming about the vitriol of the Right, and an immediate use of any tragedy to advance a political agenda that is designed to shut out any chance that the light of truth might shine in their spiritual darkness. Light would make them look as guilty as the Tucson man, with their rabid support of abortion, and their glossing over of the murders committed by Major Hasan. Then there’s their embrace of scofflaws (illegals) [see the Tucson sheriff]. The Left is as predictable as a man stumbling in the darkness who hates the man with the flashlight.
Patrick| 1.11.11 @ 11:45AM
Why come up with a new term for nutcase leftwing lunatic when you already have one: Krugman.
NavyBrat | 1.11.11 @ 8:59AM
These people are certifiable. Now, EVERYTHING is "hate speech." Here's an example that happened to me this weekend:
I had replied to an email that my liberal cousin had written me. I was agreeing with her in my reply (a rarity) & used this quote from Cicero to illustrate my agreement:
"A bureaucrat is the most despicable of men, though he is needed as vultures are needed, but one hardly admires vultures whom bureaucrats so strangely resemble. I have yet to meet a bureaucrat who was not petty, dull, almost witless, crafty or stupid, an oppressor or a thief, a holder of little authority in which he delights, as a boy delights in possessing a vicious dog. Who can trust such creatures?"
When I called her Saturday to see if she got my reply, she said that she had, but "didn't appreciate that quote." When I asked her why, she told me that "speech like that leads to what happened today." I almost dropped my phone. So now, reading Cicero will lead you to want to kill people. Huh! Who knew?
Iron Mike| 1.11.11 @ 9:13AM
You're assuming that the average liberal even knows who the hell Cicero was, other than being part of that evil right wing conspiracy known as "dead white European males"
If you don't know who Cicero was either, thank your publick skooll teechrs
NavyBrat | 1.11.11 @ 9:39AM
Iron Mike:
The scary part? She SHOULD know who Cicero was. She works for John Dingel-berry (D-MI). She's "supposedly" educated. But I guess not. You're right. They don't teach Cicero in the Montgomery Co, MD public schools or at the Univ. of Wisconsin for that matter (where she went to school). How strange it is that I went to public school (in the suburbs of Memphis) & college at the Univ. of Memphis, & actually learned who he was by the time I was a junior in highschool. Sad. Just plain sad. I love my cousin, but good G*d is that stupid or what?
Iron Mike| 1.11.11 @ 11:32AM
stupid and scary...I believe that government run education has been designed to keep people ignorant and oblivious, so they don't know when politicians are trying to pull a flim flam trick on them
Patrick| 1.11.11 @ 11:48AM
Oh, they teach Cicero in the UW system, it's just only found in the Classics Dept.
mejamom| 1.11.11 @ 9:27AM
Mental illness is indeed misunderstood, hard to dianose, treat and a tragedy. The problem with medication is well documented. No wonder it's used with caution.
I had a daughter (diagnosed with bi polar disorder) who was medicated into an unresponsive blob. When her doctor tried other drugs and/or weaned her off, she left home to become a heroin addict. A new set of problems, emotional and once she was too old for our health insurance,financial. When she tried to go straight, it was a nightmare in terms of finding low cost health care. Nothing is free, even methadone. I'm not saying it should be, but if the Tuscon shooter wasn't getting help, I can't help but ask was money a factor?
Patrick| 1.11.11 @ 12:02PM
The chemical THC, which is the active ingredient of marijuana, has been known to double one's risk for schizophrenia. Furthermore, it has been known to also induce temporary states of schizophrenia in an even larger portion.
Let's face it, Jared Loughner is a stoner. He's been on the stuff since high school, was rejected by the military because he tested positive for the stuff, and was so heavily associated with the stuff, that the earliest information we received was that he was a pothead.
I'm not going to get hysterical here, as if it was something legal like, say alcohol, he was still way beyond normal consumption.
Unlike your situation, he did not run away and then get involved in drugs. Rather he scurried around the house and in his special tent in the back yard, the one with the skull and rotten oranges. His parents were either negligent or enabling his self-destruction.
Seek| 1.11.11 @ 4:42PM
Tens of millions of Americans use marijuana either weekly or at least several times a year. I don't see tens of millions of murderers or schizos out there. I should like for you to cite some of the touted "studies" linking pot with schizophrenia. (Many, in fact, have been debunked over the years.) Testing positive in one case, moreover, doesn't make one a lifelong "stoner."
Rich Rostrom| 1.11.11 @ 5:40PM
Try this:
http://claytonecramer.blogspot.....lness.html
Links (with extracts) to nine papers and articles discussing the connection between marijuania and insanity, all from 2002 or later, and all in reputable sources. For instance:
"On an individual level, cannabis use confers an overall twofold increase in the relative risk for later schizophrenia..." British Journal of Psychiatry, (2004) 184: 110-117
"Early cannabis use is associated with psychosis-related outcomes in young adults..." Archives of General Psychiatry (May 2010), 67:5
"...recent studies using high resolution imaging techniques ... in very heavy cannabis users have revealed evidence of dose-related alterations in regions implicated in schizophrenia." Handbook of Neuropsychiatric Biomarkers, Endophenotypes and Genes, ch. 27. (2009)
Additional papers linked are from British Medical Journal, Schizophrenia Bulletin, International Review of Psychiatry, American Journal of Psychiatry.
The general conclusion is that while marijuana use is neither necessary nor sufficient to cause insanity, and the vast majority of users do not go mad, it can be a very powerful contributing factor. There seems to be interaction with genetic factors, and early use is particularly dangerous. BJP estimates that 8% of schizophrenia would go away if marijuana did.
Seek| 1.12.11 @ 11:50AM
These studies may well be useful. Yet the opposite may well be true. Examples:
A paper by a team of Columbia University-NYU researchers published last year in the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry concluded that subjects with a history of refractory psychosis showed significant improvement after THC treatment, including a reduction in aggressive behavior. Additionally, survey data published in 2008 in the International Journal of Mental Health Nursing showed that schizophrenic patients experienced significant mitigation of anxiety and childhood trauma after injecting cannabis.
The debate, of course, is far from over. The point of science is to eliminate rival hypotheses, not to provide one-size-fits-all final answers. But it is safe to say that to the extent that marijuana triggers aggressive behavior, it does so in a very limited manner, and usually as a contributing factor to other, more crucial factors.
Seek| 1.12.11 @ 12:36PM
"Injecting" cannabis? Yeesh. I meant to write "ingesting." All else holds, though.
Stan Redmond| 1.11.11 @ 9:58AM
Many of the posted replies seem to crave more powerful government controls over the liberties and destinies of people. Who do you suggest determines immediate arrest and institutionalizing of people who are or were determined to be a nuisance by some administrator? Was Loughner, at the time threatening people? Not likely or he would have been arrested. Does posting on youtube bizaar rants qualify a beaurucrat arresting you and locking you in a mental institution?
Who appoints these overseers of mental health with the power to arrest and confine? A Berkely trained psychiatrist? Who determines what political speech is hate speech and thus qualifies as "insane" requiring treatment? A Harvard MBA in the Obama administration? Who determines what a sensible gun law is? The Brady Bunch? You see how easy it is for tragedies like this to expand governnment tyranny? After all only a lunatic in need of treatment locked away from society would own guns and cling to bibles. They MIGHT be dangerous so we have to do something now! Only insane lunatics would vote for republicans so obviously they need to be locked away for our safety and their own good. Who could be for children having access to firearms so obviously common sense dictates all firearms must be confiscated to prevent tragic gun deaths and anyone who disagrees is dangerous. People who read the Koran might get crazy ideas that Jews should be killed so obviously we must ban the Koran and outlaw Islam.
With the new spin the new power to control us will come from state appointed nannies who will say "Left" or "Right" as we merely pass them by in every day dealings. Get mad at a DMV agent for wasting your day in line...You might be a deranged psycho just waiting for the Glenn Beck show before shooting people from a clock tower so to the left you go.
There is ONE person responsible for this murder. ONE. It is NOT the gun manufacturers fault, NOT the college's fault, NOT a 30 round "clip," It is not DailyKOS' fault for targets on a map. It is Loughner's mind and hand that killed those people. And as sad and cold as it is that is the price of a free society. Those people injured and killed are casualties of liberty just as much as a revolutionary soldier in Washington's army. We can't let this tragedy be used to take away our freedoms and it is disgusting that there ghouls doing just that.
Ken (Old Texican)| 1.11.11 @ 10:50AM
Stan,
splendid thoughts.
"" And as sad and cold as it is that is the price of a free society. Those people injured and killed are casualties of liberty just as much as a revolutionary soldier in Washington's army. We can't let this tragedy be used to take away our freedoms and it is disgusting that there ghouls doing just that.""
Than you, Stan. Cars cause more deaths each year than privately owned guns. Should we all be confined to bicycles?
Ken (Old Texican)| 1.11.11 @ 10:50AM
Stan,
splendid thoughts.
"" And as sad and cold as it is that is the price of a free society. Those people injured and killed are casualties of liberty just as much as a revolutionary soldier in Washington's army. We can't let this tragedy be used to take away our freedoms and it is disgusting that there ghouls doing just that.""
Than you, Stan. Cars cause more deaths each year than privately owned guns. Should we all be confined to bicycles?
Franco| 1.11.11 @ 12:56PM
"Who do you suggest'? "Who appoints these overseers"?
ME, that's who! Give me the job and I'll be happy to do it.
Neanderthal| 1.11.11 @ 5:02PM
Two thoughts, Stan
First, mental illness is no more a predictor of violence (or excuse for it) than physical illness. A person has to have violent impulses in order to plan and commit acts like this one. There are boatloads of schizophrenics running around loose who don't shoot their congressmen, or anybody else.
Second, we should have a way to involuntarily commit those who are or may be a threat to others. In the "old days", it took an examination by a minimum of two physicians with mental health training to grant an involuntary commitment order, which was reviewed by different physicians after a certain period of time. Now, we just let these people wander around on the street (a huge percent of the homeless), until they die or kill someone.
michigander_sandusky| 1.11.11 @ 10:09PM
Stan, thanks for the sanity.
Mimi| 1.11.11 @ 10:05AM
BOOGER: What a howl, but oh so true! Could this "TROUBLE" have been avoided?? A serious question that must be answered.
Also it must be noted, schizophrenia in itself does not cause one to "KILL" certainly not all who suffer this disease are killers, or dangerous to society. I believe that diagnosis and Treatment would have helped....Was he ever evaluted? Lots we don't know. The DEM'S come off as foolish because they couldn't restrain themselves and WAIT for the full FACTS before the reacted. That is why they are not trusted to GOVERN!!!
Joe D.| 1.11.11 @ 10:36AM
Robert M. Goldberg, I am not sure I follow you on this mental illness. Just because someone kills perfect strangers does not mean he is mentally ill and should not be fried/hung for his crime.
We are tired of people using this excuse to get people off for there crimes.
And by the way, what about this pot he was suppose to be taking. Did not have something to do with it. OH PLEASE LEGALIZE IT NOW???
Petronius| 1.11.11 @ 10:40AM
Up is down. Right is wrong. Liberal isn't. And the tin foil hats can't stand the fact that"he" is one of them. And their own Representative has paid in dearest coin for failing to do her job and make the world good enough for these overgrown brats to live in. Our body politic is coated with psoriac miscreants who's longevity has outrun their development to the point that a new measurement
is called for. Take any rotten spoiled snot with totally irrational views who has attained the age of majority yet functions and holds the beliefs of any kindergarten recidivist. This creature requires a designation. Old sobriquets just won't do. Words like "libtard" though aptly descriptive are self contradictory. And we cannot impugn others named Loughner. I came up with Uniblaster, but that would seem to lionize him. 86 that. I could use a little input on this. I open the floor for nominations. How about Loser in Chief, or Prime Idiot?
Rawp | 1.11.11 @ 10:52AM
A congresswoman shot in AZ, a DC bureaucrat found burning in a car, a unified nation divided into contentious tribes...it's beginning.
sam vaughn| 1.11.11 @ 11:11AM
Anybody who has ever had any experience with a paranoid schizophrenic knows that they would see shadows of conspiracy in the Sahara at high noon. Throw bipolar disorder into the mix and you have a powder keg of potential maniac behaviour. This has been going on since the dawn of mankind.
The behaviour is easy to see once you scrape the surface but impossible, in a politically correct world, to simply call someone crazy. Paranoid schizophrenics can be incredibly intelligent, the one I knew was Mensa level. He knew how to push back. Nevertheless, he's one moment away from pushing a bystander off a train platform and nobody you tell in positions of authority are willing to consider that somebody might actually be crazy..... Nope they always play the victim card..... it's not his fault it's societies fault, it's your fault. After this experience I've come to believe that evil exists and it's malevolence holds no bounds, let alone party affiliation. A re-run of the Mickey Mouse Club could set him off......
Seek| 1.12.11 @ 3:10PM
You are quite right. This type of person is obsessed with maintaining an illusion of leading an ideal life. Give them any advice or criticism and -- boom! -- they are warning, screaming and even assaulting. Their need to protect the air in the ego balloon is so extreme that the smallest provocation, however unintended, is cause for a tirade.
This, in short, is the mind of Jared Loughner. He could not find a job, an education, a woman, a cause -- anything to give him a reason to get up in the morning. So he found purpose in the supposes importance of his deluded "insights." It's all so transparently pathetic. Whether or not he's a "Leftist" is beside the point.
L'HOMME PURPELLE| 1.11.11 @ 11:39AM
IT THINK PURPLE GUY GOT IT RIGHT! ALL YOU RIGHT WING HATERS SHOULD BE THE ONES TO BLAME FOR THIS! GO BACK TO VIETANM AND BURN YOUR BABIES! PALIN IS A BIG MOUTH WHO CAUSED THIS!
NavyBrat | 1.11.11 @ 12:02PM
The 60's called. They want their rhetoric back. Don't you have some soldiers to go spit on?
Patrick| 1.11.11 @ 12:08PM
He's just mad because Jared was his pot dealer.
Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 1.11.11 @ 12:04PM
You're a Retard!!
tonypal| 1.11.11 @ 12:08PM
Any thoughts on the following link genius?
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm.....;subid=171
axbucxdu| 1.11.11 @ 12:56PM
Warning: (S)ystem (ID)entification exercise in progress. Move along citizens, nothing to see here, move along...
Redstateboy| 1.11.11 @ 1:03PM
L'HOMME.... A shinning example of the American Left.... EeeeeUuuuu......
michigander_sandusky| 1.11.11 @ 10:13PM
L'HOMME PURPELLE, you are quite talented; I didn't know they had an internet connection in the psycho ward. Also, it must be quite difficult to type while wearing a straight jacket.
Anthony| 1.11.11 @ 12:12PM
Somebody needs to inform Mr. Jon Cohn and the left that this political segue into Health Care will once again smack them in the face.
While it's true that mental illness is indeed insidious, it's also a fact that even the best of health care cannot always detect and ameliorate it.
All Mr. Cohn and the left need to know is that Chris Matthews and Paul Krugman have the best health care plans NBC, the New York Times, and Princeton University can provide, and yet these Mercedes health care plans have been woefully unable to help these poor souls. Even Mr. Cohn's plan can't help him.
Of course, there is no help on God's earth for the likes of L'HOMME PURPELLE. Rabid dogs are beyond help.
VBMax| 1.11.11 @ 2:35PM
And that's because the maladies that these afflicted suffer from are spiritual in nature and can't be cured by meds.
martin j smith| 1.11.11 @ 12:20PM
As I have said, making a guy who fits the dx of a paranoid schizophrenic as a device to malign anyone is among the most pathetic things I have ever seen in my adult life. The atrocious behavior on the LEFT to milk political Hay out of this pathetic yet evil being is grotesque to say the least. And anyone who tries to take advantage of the horror of a incident where a dozen or so were shot and 6 killed is in itself a sign of political mental illness. I am ashamed to say that in this country there are people who buy the absolute trash.
Lazy Jack | 1.11.11 @ 12:23PM
In terms of inflamatory commentary, didn't Mark Penn, the Democratic polster, recently say that Obama needed another Oklahoma City to reconnect to the people?
Though this tragedy is smaller in scale, apparently Mark Penn got his wish. So, It would seem, did many liberal journalists.
Nice Job Keeping the rhetoric rational, Mark. Of course, it is all the right wing media that is the problem.
Nice.
Lazy Jack,
www.thanksforthelaughs.wordpress.com
Franco| 1.11.11 @ 12:36PM
These idiots are the same people who oppose, say forced sterilization for walking baby factories. If you demand that something be done for the mentally ill who pose a more than passing risk of causing harm, you can't hide beind the skirt of opposing involuntary placement and treatment for them.
Incidentally, I'm all for forced sterilization AND involuntary confinement.
Gabriel Dougherty| 1.11.11 @ 2:18PM
So, you are for expanding government and state police powers?
Franco| 1.11.11 @ 4:05PM
Yes, in these extraordinary circumstances. Don't the authorities already have the power to do exactly thus if a person is a clear and present danger to himself or others? I can live with that. It's the expansion of government and state police powers over individuals who are law-abidng and are not a danger to themselves or others that I oppose.
Redstateboy| 1.11.11 @ 1:01PM
If the World Wide Left evre had it's Greatest Moment... this event and their reaction to it.. Is farthest from it.
Nicholas| 1.11.11 @ 1:09PM
Seems people--left, center, and center-right-- are just calling for the extreme right to be more careful in all their ranting and raving. It wouldn't have mattered if it came from the right or left, because people that do these things are insane. However, extreme rightwingers like Beck and Limbaugh undeniably stoke the passions of crazy people.
George S| 1.11.11 @ 2:47PM
Undeniably. That's why Beck and Limbaugh have a combined personal security budget the size of a small republic.
Steve A| 1.11.11 @ 1:19PM
Nicholas, Please provide specific quotes from Beck & Rush that "undeniably stoke the passions of crazy people." I will stand by for your non response.
Nicholas| 1.11.11 @ 1:52PM
They do so by framing the Left as if they are some anomalous entity out to destroy America. People in this country disagree about policy--that is to be expected. These pundits, however, with all their screaming and ranting, shift the debate from polite disagreement, to warring ideologies. They legitimize the hatred.
Gabriel Dougherty| 1.11.11 @ 2:15PM
Mike Malloy legitimizes the hatred, and Dr. Krugman makes hasty and ad hominem generalizations. I agree with you, Nicholas.
Nicholas| 1.11.11 @ 5:04PM
I hope you're being sincere, though you're framing it against liberals. I never said that liberals are in any way exempt from what I'm saying, though I can't think of any that have audiences as large as some of these rightwing extremists that have become so popular in the last couple of years.
missbosslady| 1.11.11 @ 3:00PM
Nicholas,
Let me be the second one to ask you for ANY specifics. You were previously asked, but once again chose to generalize. Of course, this makes your argument with merit as you seemingly cannot give a single example (PROOF) for your accusations.
Typical lefty. All bluster, no facts!
Nicholas| 1.11.11 @ 3:29PM
Missbosslady, if Beck or Limbaugh ever said anything that directly promoted violence, they would be in prison. That is a given. It is also not what I said. I said that all their ranting and raving stokes the passions of insane people. They clearly stoke the passions of sane people, for example the Tea Party, but being somewhat sane, the Tea Partiers don't assassinate politicians.
You've missed the point completely. I don't know why it is controversial for me to say that we should tone it down and treat each other like Americans?
missbosslady| 1.11.11 @ 3:53PM
Nicholas,
Sorry pal, but you've made no point to miss.
Here is your exact statement. You made it as if it were fact, now I've asked you to prove it, but of course you cannot, which means it is simply supposition, in other words just your opinion.
" I said that all their ranting and raving stokes the passions of insane people. "
Now, my opinion is that your statement is ludicrous.
Nicholas| 1.11.11 @ 4:54PM
Have you ever listened to the 2? They're not famous for being calm and reasonable.
YOU are insane, or at last insanely stupid, if you don't think that people get excited when they listen to those 2 talk.
Nicholas| 1.11.11 @ 5:22PM
On second thought, try this on for size:
Glenn Beck in 2005: "I'm thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I'm wondering if I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it. No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out -- is this wrong?"
tonypal| 1.11.11 @ 8:09PM
You still haven't provided any evidence to support your claims. Instead of calling names, just provide some specific quotes. I'll make you a deal: For every quote you can produce, I'll give you 10 from MSNBC. Care to take the challenge?
I've posted this many times, but take a look at this and tell me what you think. Do you think this kind of stuff excites people on the left?
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm.....p;subid=17
Nicholas| 1.11.11 @ 8:48PM
Okay... you can start by scrolling up then.
Nicholas| 1.12.11 @ 10:10AM
“America is ready for another revolution!” - Sarah Palin
Now you owe me 20 examples.
martin j smith| 1.11.11 @ 1:24PM
Nicholas, go back to the moderate daily kos or Huffiington post--I am sure you would be happier there. by the way Left or Right is a separate issue from being mentally ill. though some will argue that there are more mentally ill on the Left.--but what the heck. My impression of you Nicholas is that when you sme4ll the truth --that is the FACT-THAT A POLITICAL GROUP IS MAKING USE OF A TERRIBLE TRAUMATIC SITUATION TO MAKE POLITICAL HAY--THAT IS SICK AND YOU ARE SICK FOR BEING MORALLY WEAK IN NOT SEEING IT. Your diagnosis: Moral Cowardice.
Nicholas| 1.11.11 @ 1:53PM
What are you even talking about? You're so angry. It's really disturbing.
Redstateboy| 1.11.11 @ 1:29PM
I was on USA Today's site shortly after this tragedy was reported and the Wack-job Leftists were Insane!!! Absolutely besides themselves accusing Palin, Conservatives.. and people like myself and others were besides ourselves suggesting over and over.. "How can you possibly know what motivated this person - it just took place!?!!" It didn't matter!!!! The Left in this Country is deranged and this incident needs to be held up as a sign that these Leftist, Socialists, Communists, Democrats (Same thing) are to be scorned and held up to ridicule... Not to be taken seriously.
Melvin| 1.11.11 @ 2:27PM
Another way of looking at this is after the last election the Liberals were slapped down by the voters.
Day after day we were subject to the daily whining of, "We didn't get our message out, we weren't effective," yadda, yadda, yadda.
The felt burned by Sarah Palin because in whether they like it or not, she was effective at painting the Liberals for truly what they are and for the most part it resonated with the voters.
The Liberals wanted blood and the closet they could get to Sarah was her daughter Bristol on Dancing with the Stars. But even then Sarha Palin got the last word.
So the Liberals were more or less pouting since last November and feeling left out without the attention that they usually received from the media.
Sarah Palin was making the news and they weren't. And along comes Jared Lee Loughner, this was the Liberals one and only chance to exact revenge from Sarah Palin. A white, crazed male, with a weapon, this guy absolutely had to belong to the Tea Party because the only people in the Tea Party movement are angry white males right?
As a side benefit, not only is Jared Lee Loughner a Tea Party Activist, he also listens to Conservative talk radio.
Even if Jared Lee Loughner isn't a Tea Party Activists the media, Democrat politicians, and they're supporters will keep hammering the message home long enough they'll convince the voting public that he is and happy days are here again in 2012.
So now the Liberal Left feels they have relevance again. Yep, they feel they got their mojo back.
But the joke will end up on them because it is going to take allot more than some broke dick sheriff from Pema County to convince the public otherwise.
Pat| 1.11.11 @ 3:18PM
As reported, Jared Loughner had previously asked Rep. Gifford a question: “What is government if words have no meaning?” – her failure to provide a satisfactory answer to a nonsensical question immediately set her in Loughner’s future sights. A day after the shooting, Michael Daly of the New York Daily News said “the blood is on Sarah Palin’s hands”. Paul Krugman of the New York Times emphatically connected a mentally deranged individual on a shooting spree in Tucson with a “climate of hate” throughout America. So, we’re to believe Loughner’s words were at least one clear symptom of his ongoing mental instability, but Daly’s and Krugman’s words flow from two men we should consider perfectly normal?
Now we’re also encouraged to believe Daly and Krugman were simply engaged in political rhetoric, no clinical reason to take their words as alarming symptoms of a mental disease. Instead, the media commentators attempt to reassure us by claiming Daly and Krugman may write disturbingly paranoid sentences and utter wild accusations directed at real or imaginary enemies, but they’re not mentally unbalanced. Really, they’re not!
They do it for the money which makes them sane, at least by the media’s standards. So, two respected journalists deliberately exploit a tragedy where, among other victims, an innocent young girl died from a gunshot, leaving behind her grieving parents, leaving behind a nation shocked and consumed with guilt over the needless death of a little one and - because they did it for the money - they’re not really insane. Greedy maybe or insensitive, hate-filled, ambitious and opportunistic but clearly Daly and Krugman are as mentally stable as you or I – or so we’re told.
Have we paused to consider the Lefties may actually be correct, not enough attention is being paid to mental illness within our society. Loughner, Daly and Krugman – it’s becoming harder and harder to determine who should be confined under the State’s care and who should be free to work within our nation’s media.
Vern Crisler| 1.12.11 @ 12:19AM
Good points, and if we're going to curb free speech, as liberals suggest, how about we start with Thugman's?
proreason| 1.11.11 @ 4:48PM
Other than the unspeakable tragedy itself, the most important aspect of the murders is the unmitigated glee that the left has shown in pouncing on the tragedy as a propaganda tool.
Every lefty I hear from is positively giddy that it happened.
Nicholas| 1.11.11 @ 4:59PM
Absurd.
No one--left, center, or center right--is happy to be telling the extreme right, "we told you so."
tonypal| 1.11.11 @ 8:04PM
Nah, it just seems that way.
CalMark| 1.11.11 @ 9:20PM
You'd have more credibility (i.e., you'd actually have some) if your implied definition of "extreme right" wasn't most conservatives.
Nicholas| 1.12.11 @ 9:55AM
Most conservatives are not best represented by Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Beck, or Limbaugh.
Crusty old white people who don't know anything about politics or love for their neighbors: Yes. But most conservatives: No.
You'd have more credibility (i.e., you'd actually have some) if I had ever implied a definition of "extreme right." However, in the brevity of my statement, I didn't much have time for that, now did I?
Nicholas| 1.12.11 @ 10:09AM
Here is an example of a quote from an extreme rightwinger:
“America is ready for another revolution!” - Sarah Palin
People calling for civil war are extremists. Most conservatives don't want to go to war with their neighbors because of the yard signs they put out every other year.
Jullou| 1.11.11 @ 6:05PM
So, it now we are beginning to know the rest of the story:
(The Hill)- In a floor speech nearly three years ago, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid praised the sheriff investigating the deadly Arizona shooting spree who has faced criticism from the right.
Reid (D-Nev.) took to the Senate floor on April 15, 2008, to praise the “truly commendable” 50-year law enforcement career of Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik.
“Clarence Dupnik is known as a man of action, integrity and innovation,” Reid said. “These skills have been invaluable to his 50 years of service to Arizona, and the nation.”
A number of media figures and lawmakers, including conservative talk-radio host Rush Limbaugh, have criticized Dupnik for saying that a high level of political “vitriol” was connected to the incident that ended with Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (Ariz.) being shot in the head at close range.
Dupnik, on the Saturday of the shooting, blasted “the vitriol and rhetoric we hear day in and day out from people on radio, on TV,” and called Arizona “the mecca of prejudice and hatred.”
Vern Crisler| 1.12.11 @ 12:21AM
It is Dopenik who is to blame for all the vitriol and rhetoric. Everybody was focussed on the tragedy until he opened his trap.
Marblehead Light| 1.12.11 @ 2:50AM
AZ Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik belongs to what I call the “Bloodsxcker Class." He and the rest of the OhBummer Wrecking Crew are trying desperately to connect Jared Loughner --- that murdering leftwing dopehead snot --- to the entirely justified harsh criticism of Barak Hushpuppy OhBummer and the OhBummer Wrecking crew --- by Republicans, independents, conservatives, and libertarians. Dupnik engages in character assassination when blaming Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Sarah Palin, Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck, Osamas Pajamas, et al.
Now, the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution are the founding documents of my country, and they are written in the blood of patriots who spoke and published "illegal, inflammatory, and incendiary" language for the purpose of overthrowing and destroying the existing tyrannical government by means of deadly violence.
The purpose of the First Amendment to the Constitution is to ensure that we continue to have the same rights that the rebellious, revolutionary American colonists had, and the purpose of the Second Amendment to the Constitution is to make sure that the American people are armed sufficiently to the task of overthrowing any other tyrannical government that is fastened upon their backs or which otherwise threatens their rights.
I refer to the unalienable and perfectly natural and universally valid human rights of life, liberty, private property, and the pursuit of personal happiness. These rights --- The Rights of Man --- are the gift of nature or of nature's god, and they belong to all human beings, everywhere.
Marblehead Light| 1.12.11 @ 2:50AM
AZ Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik belongs to what I call the “Bloodsxcker Class." He and the rest of the OhBummer Wrecking Crew are trying desperately to connect Jared Loughner --- that murdering leftwing dopehead snot --- to the entirely justified harsh criticism of Barak Hushpuppy OhBummer and the OhBummer Wrecking crew --- by Republicans, independents, conservatives, and libertarians. Dupnik engages in character assassination when blaming Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Sarah Palin, Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck, Osamas Pajamas, et al.
Now, the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution are the founding documents of my country, and they are written in the blood of patriots who spoke and published "illegal, inflammatory, and incendiary" language for the purpose of overthrowing and destroying the existing tyrannical government by means of deadly violence.
The purpose of the First Amendment to the Constitution is to ensure that we continue to have the same rights that the rebellious, revolutionary American colonists had, and the purpose of the Second Amendment to the Constitution is to make sure that the American people are armed sufficiently to the task of overthrowing any other tyrannical government that is fastened upon their backs or which otherwise threatens their rights.
I refer to the unalienable and perfectly natural and universally valid human rights of life, liberty, private property, and the pursuit of personal happiness. These rights --- The Rights of Man --- are the gift of nature or of nature's god, and they belong to all human beings, everywhere.
hugh BNYN| 1.12.11 @ 6:52AM
In the midst of this horror ---what has to be dealt
with once and for all is the over-powering, virtually pervasive influence of Freemasonry
within government and the corporate realm.
Even putting aside our capitals are awash in
unsanctioned Masonic tropes, symbols, configurations and imagery, FACT IS in so
many key fields, upper level government,
education, law enforcement etc ---one can't
even hope to have a career without becoming
one.
Seperation of Church and State!
Freemasonry by any definition and its own admission ----is a religion! ----and, in its upper
reaches, avowedly Luciferian!
CHECK OUT the works of their 'fave' heavy
Albert Pike sometime. He's also the man who
FOUNDED the Ku Klux Klan and has his fingerprints all over scores of intrigues and
scandals.
And even beyond the FACT that virtually our
entire mainstream religious establishment has been snuffed out by Rockefeller Foundation
OWNED 'Council of Churches' via infiltration
and promotingthe deadly Arminian Heresy
---consider this, 90% of even the Southern
Baptist leadership is known to be ---Freemason...
Sarbo| 1.13.11 @ 2:12AM
I am not sure that "mental illness" is some sort of disease. Not like flu or malaria. Or even like a brain tumour. These don't make you take a gun and mow down fellow humans.
However, this guy or the guys at Columbine are not like bin Laden. Laden kills with deliberation and intent. These guys lash out blindly, with no purpose. They are sick.
So how does humanity deal with such sickness?
Sarbo| 1.13.11 @ 2:29AM
To continue, nobody in the medical fraternity knows what mental illness is. There is no literature, no pharmacology. It is neither infectious nor contagious nor hereditary. Its root cannot be traced to a bacterium or virus or gene. There is not even a definition.
Isn't it time for doctors and researchers to at least document the symptoms?
Adidas | 8.11.11 @ 5:47AM
is good
العاب | 4.10.12 @ 12:58PM
thank you very nic