The American Spectator : The Honors List

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The Honors List

By George Neumayr on 1.6.11 @ 6:09AM

As Joe Biden might say, a lax military is inevitable.

The proponents of a lax military professed shock this week at an illustration of it, after news reports emerged that the inaptly named naval captain Owen Honors had participated in “raunchy and ribald” videos aboard ship. The odd admixture of relativism and rigidity that now defines political correctness in the military guaranteed his firing, though it took public exposure several years after the event to trigger the termination.

Obviously, Honors has dishonored himself. But it is not at all clear why advocates of open sexuality in the military should be so appalled by his behavior. Do they really find “raunchy” behavior shocking? If so, why do they endorse gay pride parades that exhibit the same juvenile and licentious behavior? According to the media, the videos of Honors contain “homoerotic” skits that satirize the Navy’s “water conservation” efforts. The only part of that which should bother the proponents of an openly gay military is the poking fun at water conservation.

The actress Glenn Close, who prefers to appear in risqué movies on her own terms, let it be known through her publicist that she was terribly offended by the videos, which made use of footage of her visiting the USS Enterprise. Spokesmen for military groups representing gay soldiers also expressed dismay at the conduct of Honors. These groups appeared very eager to prove their disciplinary bona fides and apparently saw in this episode, which involved “anti-gay slurs,” a propagandistic chance to appear pro-gay and pro-discipline at the same time.

None of this moral outrage, however, is very convincing, for the philosophy underlying political correctness in the military is on the side of permissiveness and aberrant sexual expression. The whole point of the gay rights movement is to say that “no one chooses” their sexuality and thus it is an inherently undisciplined area of life. Since the now-officially approved moral philosophy of Obama’s military says that disciplining one’s sexual desires means “living a lie,” we should expect many more “expressive” episodes in the military’s future.

The left has always regarded the military as an undemocratic and hidebound repository of passé standards of discipline. It wants the military to be as dysfunctional as domestic society. So why should it care about immoral hijinks in the military? Where is the Washington Post’s Richard Cohen, that reliable if rusted weather vane of the coastal elite, when Honors needs him? Cohen was arguing just a few weeks ago that the head of the Marines needed to “go” for failing to appreciate America’s embrace of the sexual revolution. General Amos, wrote Cohen, is too out of step with contemporary mores to empathize with members of a new military culture in which sexual mischief and “plain hooking up” are bound to occur.

It appears that political correctness in Obama’s military, like political correctness on Ivy League campuses, will assume a paradoxical character and be at once permissive and puritanical, endorsing liberation from traditional morality while arbitrarily regulating the terms of that release. In Obama’s Animal Farm, some sins are more equal than others, and homosexuality is chief among them.

No sooner had the policy of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” fallen than Joe Biden was blurting out happily that “gay marriage” is “inevitable,” which removes any doubt about Obama’s actual position on the subject. Biden’s comment exposes Obama’s stated opposition to gay marriage as nominal and meaningless — a temporary opposition on cravenly political, not philosophical, grounds. He favors gay marriage, but the coast isn’t quite clear enough yet for him to endorse it formally.

And it didn’t take long after the repeal of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” for the Washington Post to let a member of the Navy publish an Op-Ed arguing for the Pentagon to surmount another hurdle of progress and embrace gay marriage on military bases: “It is, for example, one thing to hand a gay junior sailor a paintbrush and point him toward a rusty bulkhead. But can that gay sailor, if he has a partner, collect the same housing allowance his married counterparts do? Can a lesbian sailor request to be stationed where her partner is? Will the military recognize a marriage between two service members that is legal in one state but not in another?”

As these demands grow more insistent, as it goes from informal “homoerotic” skits to open gay pride parades, the Navy will find itself grappling with bigger problems than the scandal of Owen Honors.

About the Author

George Neumayr, a contributing editor to The American Spectator, is co-author, with Phyllis Schlafly, of the new book, No Higher Power: Obama’s War on Religious Freedom.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (213) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 1.6.11 @ 6:41AM

Honors biggest dishonor was not following in lock step with the military's PC rage, because his video was actually a spoof of the PC raging in the military.

His second biggest mistake is being a straight white male. That's another big mistake in this society.

If you don't believe it just review the Lily Ledbetter Law, Obamacare and the Financial Regulations bill that recently passed. All are chock full of gender and racial quotas and biases.

We live in a collectivist society and Honors is guilty of thought crime. The First Amendment has no place in the military, unless you're gay, or are someone who reveals state secrets or want to have your behavior ignored while you plan a terrorist attack vis a vis Nidal Hassan style. Unless you fit in one of these categories just keep your shut and your opinions to yourself.

L. Ross| 1.6.11 @ 10:29AM

I agree completely. I'm Air Force, not Navy, but I have hung out with some Navy. Their culture is vastly more rough and tumble than the Air Force. What I know of Navy troops is that they would have loved these videos, they would have been a terrific morale boost. The fact that Honors made it to Captain of an aircraft carrier speaks volumes about his professionalism and his leadership abilities. The fact that no one will stand beside him speaks volumes about how kow-towed our military has become. Upper leadership is not worth a damn.

Quartermaster| 1.6.11 @ 7:15PM

Admiral Harvey has pretty much proven he is just another of the corrupt coterie in charge of the Navy. If it can be said anyone is in charge of the Navy. It's pretty certain adults aren't in charge.

Those movies were made over 4 years ago. They were dealt with before and the case closed. It is highly likely that some one in the queer lobby in the Navy used them to bring some one down just in time for DADT to be partially repealed so someone could hang up a scalp on their lodge door. That the senior leadership didn't do the right thing is not at all surprising given the long slope they have slid down.

Alas, this is typical of all the services these days. They are more interested in seeing to the political side than they are the mission of defending the country from its enemies. They were the last bastion of conservatism in the country, and now that's gone. The country is finished. Welcome to Rome.

Ranchman| 1.8.11 @ 3:11AM

@Quartermaster
I agree 100%. And as Rome fell, so will the U.S. It's not a question of if, but when. What then will be the position of the politically correct? I seriously doubt they will fare as well as the rest of us.

old white guy| 1.7.11 @ 4:07PM

i think it all comes down to "conduct unbecoming."

j.k.p.| 1.6.11 @ 10:49AM

Take a long look at Honors' face.
He has the face of an IDIOT!

Take a look at Glenn Close's face.
She has the face of a very intelligent woman!

Grzmlyk| 1.6.11 @ 10:58AM

Newsflash: Phrenology makes a comeback!

Step right up, folks: Show me a photograph of your kid and I'll tell you his or her IQ! Guaranteed accurate!

j.k.p| 1.6.11 @ 11:04AM

Sure is. Just take a look at Trigg.

Commadore Perry| 1.6.11 @ 11:49AM

J.K.P please attach your photo....coward

Nick| 1.6.11 @ 11:55AM

j.k.p.:

Jackass
KKK-loving
Pervert

JoAnne| 1.6.11 @ 12:20PM

Nick is a little name-caller. Lacking anything intelligent to say, he calls people names.

Most of the comments on this page are not worth the effort of pulling down the handle to flush them down the commode.

Angry, old men are venting their rage at the intelligent liberals who are in control, and will be in control from now on.

It's the same AmSpec crap, day after day after tedious day.

Grzmlyk| 1.6.11 @ 12:33PM

Hey, Joanne, I'm just curious: Can you forward me the email from The Daily Kos that sent you guys over here today? For some reason, I didn't get it.

"Intelligent liberal" is an oxymoron - and no, that's not a skin product.

I think you meant "delusional, vain, ignornant, selfish, destructive, angry, blood-sucking, extremist" liberal. Ooooh wait - that would be redundant. My bad.

Angry old women who can no longer produce estrogen, trying to regain control assuaging their moral vanity. Sad.

Hey, Joanne: Know how you can make yourself feel better right now? Go out and find a person with a job and insist he give his money to the first bum he sees.

That will show us how good you are.

Grzmlyk| 1.6.11 @ 12:48PM

Oh and, Joanne:

You still there? You haven't left your bamboo, vegetable-oil powered tree house on your renewable unicycle to save the world by being a parasite yet, have you?

Good.

When you go out and tell that guy with a job to give his money to the first bum he sees, make sure you keep 70% of that for yourself, ok?

And do that with every single person with a job that you see. Pretty soon, you'll be in the clover!

But don't worry. Amassing wealth that way isn't greed. After all, you're a liberal. Duh, liberals CAN'T be greedy! Just ask Al Gore! Bill Gates! Warren Buffet! Barack Obama!

No, when liberals steal money from productive American's it isn't greed.

It's CARING.

Nice racket, no?

Nick| 1.6.11 @ 12:50PM

JoAnne,

I don't cast my pearls before swine, JoJo.

wbheff| 1.6.11 @ 1:03PM

"intelligent liberals" is an oxymoron

Redstateboy| 1.6.11 @ 2:14PM

I was curious which article would attract the Leftist, Socialist, Communists, Democrats, Slave Party adherents.. and it was this one..

FUCKING CUNT!| 1.6.11 @ 8:52PM

F U C K I N G C U N T ! !

Fred| 1.7.11 @ 3:22PM

JoAnne: Did you not see the results of the recent election? Revolution before socialism!

Gr0w1er| 1.8.11 @ 2:54PM

Joanne, don't go away mad- just go away.

Grzmlyk| 1.6.11 @ 12:28PM

Hey, Nick!

Oh, I get it: JKP is dissing Sarah Palin! OUCH. Boy, these libs sure get cracker-jack training from the Huffington Post, don't they? How clever!

I wonder what JKP (I thought it was BTK, but that may have been another pervert) thinks of the physical appearance of the triumverate of simian knuckle-draggers that are the last three Democrat nominees for president: Our current piece of shit in chief, who represents Dumbo, John Kerry, who represents a well-coiffed Lurch, or Al Gore, who bears an uncomfortably close resemblance to The Michelin Man.

Yeah, there are three geniuses.

Next, JKP will be laying more of his/her "progressive" science on us, like how to turn lead into gold - oh wait; I guess ethanol, wind and solar subsidies already come mighty close, if you're a blood-sucking Marxist.

Converting a disciplined fighting machine into today's new sexy and hot-to-trot armed forces is only phase one.

Next, the liberals are going to impose a universal gun ban on the military, and incorporate the phrase, "Make Love, Not War" into each branch's logo.

Don't worry, though: Each and every soldier, sailor, airman and marine will still be armed to the teeth: with condoms, strawberry-flavored vaseline, aromatherapy candles, gagballs, dog collars, "The Joy of Gay Sex" and a life-sized poster of the stars of Twilight.

Surrender to THIS, you sexy, naughty enemy!

Nick| 1.6.11 @ 12:44PM

Grzmlyk,

Ha-ha!

In my opinion, algore reminded me of Orson Wells, when he emerged from his depression-laden exile after finally realizing that he lost the 2000 election. Plus, they both were/are commies.

"I will commit no carbon crime, before its time."

Also, Joycelyn Elders (remember her?) might say, "We need a safer aircraft carrier."

Grzmlyk| 1.6.11 @ 12:59PM

That's right, Nick - I do remember Joyelyn. I think she's now advocating that basic military training now be taken over by NAMBLA. You know, a lot of those jihadists are awfully young (and so hot!).

Under the new rules, "hand to hand combat" will take on a rather different - and very enjoyable - meaning.

The only problem with the Orson Welles thing is that, early in his life, he displayed intelligence.

Al Gore was never anything but a slackjawed moron who was lucky enough to have a powerful, corrupt father who bribed his idiot sone into Yale.

Nick| 1.6.11 @ 1:48PM

Grzmlyk,

Okay...how about Mr. French, from Family Affair?

I've got to admit, though, growing that beard worked. That is all the drive-by media talked about, not the 100 pounds of blubber Forrest Gore had put on.

"Mama always said life was like a lock-box."

Grzmlyk| 1.6.11 @ 2:23PM

Hey, Nick:

Mr. French works better, from a visual perspective - but as I recall, he was genuinely a decent person who actually cared about the children in his charge.

Algore is a self-serving, stupid, ponderous, hectoring, stentorian, thieving, demagoguing, ostentatious, blantant, conniving, self-inflated fraud through-and-through.l He's a not-too-bright grifter who had the blind luck of backing into a scam that millions wanted to believe and, as a result of the combination of willful stupidity and larcenous hearts of liberals, made tons of money out of making a commodities market out of pixie dust and moral vanity (which beats an honest day's work, any day of the week).

But the beard DID get him into a couple of news cycles and made him hip for, oh, 20 minutes or so. Now THAT's an intelligent strategy.

In fact, it was so successful that professional rodeo clown Bill Richardson copied it - correctly calclulating that growing a beard would cause the liberal media to speculate on whether he was going to run for president (another flock of stupid geese, the liberal media).

I think you have something in Forrest Gore and the Enchanted Lock Box, though.

Still, Forrest's intelligence might have been on a par with Gore's, but he was still a vaguely anodyne character. Gore is kind of like a bloated leech that doesn't know when to pull his fat face away from the public trough.

Maybe Gore most resembles an amalgamation of a Macy's Thanksgiving day balloon, an amoral used car salesman and a very lucky lotto winner from the trailer park on the other side of town.

Nick| 1.6.11 @ 3:02PM

Grzmlyk,

Yes, I was strictly referring to the visual perspective.

From the perspective of character, I would say algore was like Gen. Dreedle's son-in-law in Catch 22, to bring it back to Orson Welles. That, or Fredo Corleone.

Hey, if you combined a young Bubba 'the pervert' Clinton with a young algore, I think you would get the rich kid in Billy Jack, who Billy killed with a karate-chop to his throat.

Grzmlyk| 1.6.11 @ 4:01PM

Hey, Nick:

Very good - very, very true.

Yeah, the son-in-law - wasn't that Austin Pendleton, one of the most annoying actors ever to appear in a movie? Works on many levels.

I confess, I haven't seen Billy Jack.

But Fredo - perfect. A scheming, spineless, mewling, jealous schmuck to the core.

Would it be too much to ask that there be a Michael Corleone in Algore/Fredo's future, who'll force him to take a one-way boat ride?

In a political sense only, of course.

You know, have a little of that "social justice" liberals are always braying about visit his own doorstep?

Nick| 1.6.11 @ 4:23PM

Grzmlyk,

I think Tipper will be his Michael.

You know she's going to write a book someday!

Huff and Puff| 1.6.11 @ 4:02PM

Grzmlyk and Nick sit in their Hoveround wheelchairs all day long and use the AmSpec blog to carry on their poisonous conversations.

Day after day. they spew their acrimony. This is their life, readers. These two miserable losers have nothing better to do than to toss their comments back and forth on AmSpec everyday.

Sooooo pathetic.

Nick| 1.6.11 @ 4:22PM

Hoveround wheelchairs.

Hey, that's actually funny.

Of course, you bleeding heart liberals know all about government freebies like Hoveround, don't you? Because you guys are parasites.

Also, I'm hardly here everyday.

Grzmlyk| 1.6.11 @ 4:28PM

I'm always impressed by what passes for wit among the trolls who are directed to this site.

Golly, Huff, you nailed us! Why, I'm beside myself!

I do have a question: Why on earth would you choose a moniker that, no doubt unintentionally, emphasizes your own jejune fecklessness?

You know, you'll huff and you'll puff and oooh, you'll blow the conservatives down. My question is, with what? Your towering intellect? Nah. It's gotta be with the one natural resource liberals never run out of: Hot air.

Careful now, we wouldn't want you to hyperventilate and get matriculated into Obamacare before your first shave.

Good grief, boy, doesn't the Huffington Post offer a course in zingers? What, were you like Ted Kennedy, you paid someone to take the final exam for you?

The only acrimony involved here is when the trolls descend, like the swallows returning to Capistrano (take it easy, Huff, "swallow" is a bird - you're not about to get lucky).

You see, a healthy body fights off infection. And when an opportunistic disease enters the body, the body will fight it off - that's what fevers are for, in case you know as little about biology as you do about everything else.

That's what happens when trolls enter this community and start smashing windows and trying to vandalize the place (and, predictably, you always whine when you're neutralized).

Now, I'm not saying you are a disease - you don't have, shall we say, the firepower for that. But I DO think of your ilk as an annoying fungus that must be treated.

Frisbee| 1.6.11 @ 3:10PM

Actually, she was showing her Nazi colors by dissing innocent little Trigg. Sarah Palin herself would be too tough for Joanne.

Joanne - repent of your haughty eugenicist attitudes before you end up in hell.

G.I. Joe| 1.6.11 @ 4:36PM

Grzmlyk,

You sound awfully familiar with the sex toys and other sex paraphernalia. Sounds to me like you've tried them.

I bet you liked it, didn't you? The male-on-male sex, I mean.

I think "Huff and Puff" (scroll down) has you pegged.

Grzmlyk| 1.6.11 @ 4:52PM

Please see my response to "Joanne."

Again - and this is a serious question, since it is invariably the first riposte EVERY troll who comes to this site tries:

Why do all of you think it's so devastating to accuse us of being guilty of the things we criticize?

Gee, you disapprove of homosexuality srongly. Sounds like you might have hidden feelings of homosexuality."

"Gee, you are aware that sex toys exist. Sounds like you've used them."

I hate to be the one to break this to you - and rob you of 100% of your ammunition, but that doesn't work on any level - either as an insult or as a logical accusation.

So I ask again: That's the best you can do? You take the trouble to obey the Huffington Post's orders and come to this site specifically to taunt people, and that's what each and every one of you comes up with?

Where's the intellect? Where's the thinking?

So I'll say this to you:

Gee, you're trolling on a conservative site, criticizing conservatives. Sounds to me like you're a conservative! Yeah, you LIKE conservatism, don't you???

AH HAH! Gotcha!!

LiveFreeOrDie| 1.6.11 @ 6:10PM

I'm sure Puff and Stuff would gladly respond to your comments but the poor thing doesn't understand a thing you wrote.

Grzmlyk| 1.6.11 @ 6:33PM

Seriously, they get the word from HuffPo to come over here because, OMG, there's a story that touches on homosexualty over here. Flash mob time!

And like the mindless, dutiful flock of sheep they are, they all come over here ready to spread vitriol.

Trouble is, all they do is taunt - they never offer anything approaching rational argument. What's worse, they all use the same, tired, shopworn, threadbare insults.

So we get bombarded with liberal trolls who:

1) Insult old people
2) Denegrate gay people (what other interpretation can we have, when they consider accusing us of homosexuality an insult?);
3) Ignore debate in favor of reductive, hateful name calling;
4) Denigrate the mentally handicapped (see the post about Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome child);
5) Tell us we should kill ourselves;
6) Engage in tribal triumphalism.

Now, remind me again - WHO are the bigots?

Occam's Tool| 1.6.11 @ 7:36PM

JKP, you just made fun of a child with trisomy-21, which has distictive facial features and associated mental retardation.

Wow, what a man.

Occam's Tool| 1.6.11 @ 7:38PM

Sorry, JKP, "distinctive," as in: it's distinctly obvious that you suffer from Micropenis.

Negro X| 1.6.11 @ 5:26PM

And you have the intelligence of an insect. It takes a bit more intelligence to Command an aircraft carrier and fly jets than it does to act the way so director tell you to and to speak what someone else has written.

old white guy| 1.7.11 @ 4:09PM

glenn who? some guy at the local gas bar.

Jeff| 1.8.11 @ 10:12PM

For you information , Honors is a graduate of Annapolus and a Top Gun pilot!

The Greatest Minds of All Time| 1.6.11 @ 4:48PM

All you old fartin' homophobes need to line up and take a leap off the highest cliff you can find.

You're finished. You're done for. It's a new world.

It's going to be a better world. A world with more tolerance and respect.

This truth is what's killing all you old homophobes. Right?

1 2 3 Close your eyes and jump! (and good riddance)

Grzmlyk| 1.6.11 @ 4:55PM

You're a heterophobe.

Heterophobe, heterophobe, heterophobe!

You're a hater!

Hater, hater hater!

You're a bigot!

Bigot, bigot, bigot!

Go jump off a cliff! And good riddance!

Nick| 1.6.11 @ 5:32PM

"It's a new world."

No. You want an old world, actually.

Ever heard of ancient Greece?
They always got it in the end!

Grzmlyk| 1.6.11 @ 6:10PM

You know, Nick, I swear - I was driving home just now, and that very point occurred to me.

All of the civilizations that openly embraced homosexuality collapsed.

Coincidence?

I swear, the more I see what's happening in this country, the more credence I put in stories from the Bible.

Progressives think they're pushing we luddites ever forward. Yet every one of the policies, behaviors and insitutional changes they advocate are REGRESSIVE and destructive.

In the end (so to speak), this isn't about the guy from accounting who is gay. This is about blood-sucking Marxists seizing yet another victim group in order to tighten its grip on power.

For liberals, it's now about "gay rights" or "women's rights" or social justice or environmentalism - these are all simply pretexts for one thing: Raw, naked POWER.

Nick| 1.6.11 @ 6:39PM

Grzmlyk,

Well, I'm a Roman Catholic, so I put a lot of credence in the Bible.

One of the lessons I've learned from the Scriptures is that when people reject God, and start worshipping false gods, they end up revering creation and hating God's ultimate creation: Man.

The ancient Egyptians worshipped the sun, moon, stars, the Nile, bulls, rams, alligators, birds, cats, etc. They enslaved the Hebrews and killed their babies, so that they wouldn't become to large to handle.

The ancient Greeks and Romans worshipped the stars and planets. They practiced abortion and homosexuality. Roman men could kill their wives and children. Greeks and Romans left female children on hill tops routinely to die.

The Caananites worshipped Molech and sacrificed their children to this false god by immolating them.

Man is God's greatest creation, which is why Satan rebelled, because God made us above the angels. Satan, after being cast down, hated man, and wants our distruction.

When people turn their backs on God, guess who's there with his arms wide open?
Umm....could it be.....umm...SATAN!

Sorry to get all metaphysical there!

Grzmlyk| 1.6.11 @ 7:31PM

Well, Nick, I certainly defer to your extensive Biblical knowledge, and I concur with what you say.

I guess I should say that, all my life, I've been pretty areligious. But, of late, a lot of the stories, anecdotes and sayings from the Bible - which I've always found to contain wisdom regardless of the passion of my feelings - have taken on a new, urgent meaning. Just as one example, I look at the story of the Tower of Babel, and I think that is EXACTLY what is happening now.

I agree, when man puts himself at the himself at the center of creation, as progressives have assiduously been promoting for 150 years, ruination is the result. Life today is one long, decadent, entitlement-saturated bacchanal. Porn is revered, but a creche in front of the church? We can't allow it!

As you know, I've long thought we are too far over the cliff to turn the tide now.

And what kills me is that these liberals, who embrace an utterly false consciousness, can look at reality and deny it with such confidence.

I mean, the Dems are talking about how if Obamacare is repealed, it will cost $150 billion by 2017. With a straight face, they tell us that a new entitlement for 30 million people is going to bring the deficit down!! And the libs who routinely troll on this site BELIEVE it with all their vain hearts.

It just amazes me - down is up, in is out, right is wrong and good is now evil.

Nick| 1.6.11 @ 8:27PM

Grzmlyk,

Well stated.

I guess I'm more optimistic.
I follow the constant refrain of Pope John Paul II, who was repeating the message of Christ: "Be not afraid!"

LiveFreeOrDie| 1.6.11 @ 8:42PM

When lies become truth, error is the norm and that error is the standard from which what was formerly true (still true) is now judged by the majority...err, minority?

BackToBasics| 1.6.11 @ 11:11PM

You wrote:
It's going to be a better world. A world with more tolerance and respect.....1 2 3 Close your eyes and jump! (and good riddance)

Where's the tolerance and respect in your post?

carnot| 1.8.11 @ 9:51AM

no. no. no.

the key point is where are the statistics to show it is a better world? a better society?

Michael Johnston| 1.7.11 @ 12:13AM

I have a big sticker on my truck that reads "White, Straight, Republican male. How else can I piss you off today" I'm getting so tired of having to apoligize for being born that way. The repeal of DADT will end up being one of the worst mistakes ever pushed on our military forces. I served 28 years in Special Forces and have never served with a member who was suspected of being "gay". They don't want to come out and I don't think we will have a big rush of Soldiers, Sailors, Airman, and Marines rushing to do so. What we'll see is some political BS by a few flamers who want to make a point. We have opened the door, just wait until that PFC gets put on extra guard duty because he refused the advances of his Squad Leader. Expect the lawsuits to line the pockets of lawyers standing by to sue the Government to flow like the jungle juice we used to make

Pinch| 1.6.11 @ 7:12AM

On the bright side, it looks like the Fox News show, Red Eye with Greg Gutfield has a new panelist! Captain Honors video's looked like a cross between McHale's Navy and a Gregalogue!

Brian Mc| 1.6.11 @ 7:18AM

Abolishment of DADT and the left's response to Honors are antithesis that leaves logic shaking its head. The dumbing down of everything decent and good not only leaves us shaking our heads but, makes us skeptical of what's to come.

"See, we can serve openly in the military but, culture still won't allow us holy union...sniffle"

God help us as the incrementalism seaps ever deeper into the fabric of social goodness and replaces the thread of decency with a rotting stench that hints at utter destruction of our Republic.

GreginOkinawa| 1.6.11 @ 7:24AM

Whats funny about todays military is this: You can be openely homosexual, but beause of PC constraints, you are not allowed to be openly heterosexual!

98% Dumb| 1.6.11 @ 10:51AM

Openly heterosexual? Man, you are a fool.

Unless you mean that by "openly heterosexual" you look and act alike a jackass.

Evanston2| 1.6.11 @ 1:46PM

98%, Heterosexuals find homosexuality repulsive, but as Mr. Neumayr points out we must "Live a lie" and act like it's totally cool. More than that, enshrine this behavior in law as "marriage" and (coming soon!) hiring/promotion quotas and the like. Sticking things up your behind is the act of a jackass. And you are a hypocrite.

Grzmlyk| 1.6.11 @ 2:47PM

"98% Dumb"?

Aren't you overestimating your intelligence by at least a factor of 10?

Just keepin' it real, y'all.

Kisses!

Fred| 1.7.11 @ 3:25PM

Congratulations, you just made it to 100% dumb! You get the fickle wanker of fags award.

CPO Mike| 1.6.11 @ 12:15PM

You know what's even funnier?

If an openly straight man and woman on a six-month sea deployment can’t be trusted to sleep in the same berthing area because of the risk of physical attraction, sexual arousal and subsequent contact, then HOW can it be said that two openly gay men sharing similar living conditions will somehow be able to pull it off?

Evanston2| 1.6.11 @ 1:51PM

CPO, Totally concur. As you know, gay sex was an occasional problem already. Now it will be politically protected. Welcome to the Love Boat. Welcome to fraternization and harassment problems, with concomitant general loss of trust. Welcome to perversion trumping combat effectiveness. Welcome to the New Navy. Stay clear of the Taiwan Straits because your crew won't be straight.

Pyroclastic| 1.6.11 @ 10:13PM

Chief Mike, if the fleet becomes populated with a majority of combatant ships known in WWII as "French Cruisers", straight sailors unfortunate enough to be ordered to one would be well advised to carry a heavy spanner wrench with them at all times to ... ah ... discourage unwanted romance from a shipmate. Then of course he had best be prepared for Captain's Mast and a court martial for being guitly of hate crimes.

Personally I think a number of flag officers who knew about this, tried to cover their six for years by doing nothing and now come forward to denounce the former XO ENTERPRISE, should themselves be administered career ending punitive letters of reprimand ... just as a number of officers high up in 2/LT Wm Calley's chain of command should have burned along with him.

CPO Mike| 1.6.11 @ 11:12PM

You're right Pyro. Ideas like honor, courage, and commitment--once viewed as the staple of military service--are mocked as anachronisms now.

Lawrence Boccardi| 1.6.11 @ 7:34AM

Just so were clear, we are talking about the unfortunate instance of one finding one's self a homosexual, albeit by a freak of nature or societal conditioning, are we not? Because that is a lot different than the act of homosexual sex practice, which many believe to be abnormal and abhorent.

* & ^| 1.6.11 @ 10:54AM

Boccardi, make yourself clear.

Lee| 1.7.11 @ 4:47PM

Try reading this one.
Laws of Sexual Relations (Leviticus)

18:6 “‘No man is to approach any close relative to have sexual intercourse with her. I am the Lord. 18:7 You must not expose your father’s nakedness by having sexual intercourse with your mother. She is your mother; you must not have intercourse with her. 18:8 You must not have sexual intercourse with your father’s wife; she is your father’s nakedness. 18:9 You must not have sexual intercourse with your sister, whether she is your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she is born in the same household or born outside it; you must not have sexual intercourse with either of them. 18:10 You must not expose the nakedness of your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter by having sexual intercourse with them, because they are your own nakedness. 18:11 You must not have sexual intercourse with the daughter of your father’s wife born of your father; she is your sister. You must not have intercourse with her. 18:12 You must not have sexual intercourse with your father’s sister; she is your father’s flesh. 18:13 You must not have sexual intercourse with your mother’s sister, because she is your mother’s flesh. 18:14 You must not expose the nakedness of your father’s brother; you must not approach his wife to have sexual intercourse with her. She is your aunt. 18:15 You must not have sexual intercourse with your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife. You must not have intercourse with her. 18:16 You must not have sexual intercourse with your brother’s wife; she is your brother’s nakedness. 18:17 You must not have sexual intercourse with both a woman and her daughter; you must not take as wife either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter to have intercourse with them. They are closely related to her – it is lewdness. 18:18 You must not take a woman in marriage and then marry her sister as a rival wife while she is still alive, to have sexual intercourse with her.

18:19 “‘You must not approach a woman in her menstrual impurity to have sexual intercourse with her. 18:20 You must not have sexual intercourse with the wife of your fellow citizen to become unclean with her. 18:21 You must not give any of your children as an offering to Molech, so that you do not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord! 18:22 You must not have sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman; it is a detestable act.18:23 You must not have sexual intercourse with any animal to become defiled with it, and a woman must not stand before an animal to have sexual intercourse with it; it is a perversion.

kat| 1.6.11 @ 7:44AM

The left's two main institutional enemies are the military and the Catholic Church. The repeal of DADT kicks sand in the eye of both. The author makes the point, "But can that gay sailor, if he has a partner, collect the same housing allowance his married counterparts do? Can a lesbian sailor request to be stationed where her partner is? Will the military recognize a marriage between two service members that is legal in one state but not in another?"

Add some more unintended consequences (if that is what they are?): Will gay officers be automatically promoted because of the fear of discrimination lawsuits? There is precident for this in the unequal promotion of women and blacks compared to white males. What happens when a military Catholic priest makes mention of the immorality of homosexual behavior in a homily or confession? Likely they will be court-marshaled and won't even be able to defend their actions because of their vow to not violate the seal of Confession. So, my prediction for the US military in 20 years is one in which a good percentage of officers will be gay with many incidents of sexual harrassment swept under the rug and no chaplains to give comfort to the troops.

Evanston2| 1.6.11 @ 1:58PM

kat, Most of your predictions are absolutely correct. But with respect, the Roman church is hardly the enemy of the left. With the exception of abortion, it works hand-in-glove on many social issues with the left. Near total silence on DADT repeal. It is evangelical protestantism that is the arch enemy of the left. So while the majority of believers are evangelicals, none will be approved to the Supreme Court and the Palins of our nation are endlessly lampooned. Priests and homosexuality is a touchy subject (literally and figuratively), too. During my career, I always found chaplains to be lame. The real belief was in the ranks. That will be culled out. Like you say, in 20 years we will have a force with no moral backbone which will collapse when confronted with a genuine threat.

Melvin| 1.6.11 @ 7:46AM

I have not personally seen this video, but have heard it debated. My first thoughts are, "What in the Sam hell was this United States Naval Officer thinking?"
His behavior is not indicative of an officer and gentleman. The bigger question should be asked, if this Captain is acting like he is, what the hell is the ships company doing? Maybe the ships Executive Officer needs his head examined to, to allow such unbecoming conduct come from the ship's commanding officer.
But I will say this, when a ship has been on station for an extended period of time. And the process of war becomes mundane and routine, The officers look for different ways to change the ships routine to let the crew know that they are still human and not just turning into Mechanical automatons. When this happens deadly mistakes happen, especially on aircraft-carriers
Think back during WW2 when bawdy Vaudevillian plays were conducted all over the Pacific and Atlantic theaters to break the monotony of war. Back then men would put clean mop heads over their heads and stuff toilet paper into their blouses to simulate a female. Back then someone had to play the female. But that very same behavior today would be considered sexists and could be construed as homophobic.
This sure as hell's not Admiral "Bull" Halsey Navy any more is it.

* & ^| 1.6.11 @ 10:57AM

Why don't you crawl back to the 50s where you belong, old man.

NavyBrat | 1.6.11 @ 11:43AM

Don't you have some fudge to pack?

JoAnn D.| 1.6.11 @ 12:04PM

NavyBrat seems to come from the same low-class, low-IQ stock as Captain Honors.

NavyBrat talks about "fudge to pack" pretty often. In fact, he seems to be obsessed with it. Obsessed. I wonder why.

Grow up, NavyBrat. You're no longer a 13-year-old bullyboy, except here on the pages of AmSpec where you can screech your adolescent ranting anonymously and safely.

Go blow your nose and wash behind your ears.

Nick| 1.6.11 @ 12:18PM

"Lighten-up, Francis."
- Sgt. Hulka, Stripes (1981)

NavyBrat | 1.6.11 @ 12:18PM

Spare me your self righteous indignation. If you don't like my replies to the trolls, then don't read them. Otherwise, shut your freaking pie hole. Some welfare queen with a room temp IQ's opinion of me means about as much as what I empty out of my ostomy bag. And it smells the same too.

Go piss up a rope, haint.

Grzmyk| 1.6.11 @ 2:54PM

Joanne, are you supposed to be contributing anything remotely resembling intelligence to this thread?

Don't you know that's the hoariest canard in the liberal playbook?

(Little help: "Hoary" means old, or superannuated, like you).

Whenever a heterosexual comments about homosexuality in any way - be it a reasoned argument or a crass insult - the very first thing you Pavlovian fools invariably go to is this: "You're commenting on homosexuality negatively - therefore, obviously, you must be gay!!!"

Brilliant logic. Really, Joanne, you must have left the brain you think with back in the bamboo treehouse.

So, by your reasoning, Joanne, since you're commenting on conservatives in a pretty insulting way, you are obviously a conservative.

Stormzeye| 1.6.11 @ 11:48AM

You are the lowest form of slug. You haunt boards such as this and insult honest commentators while not having the guts to present yourself. You are a child and likely a gutless liberal/progressive.

Nick| 1.6.11 @ 12:01PM

Melvin,

Honors was the XO of the Enterprise when these skits were made. That would make him a Commander, I think?

Keith| 1.13.11 @ 10:03AM

Actually the XO of an aircraft carrier is a full bird Captain normally.

Pyroclastic| 1.6.11 @ 10:25PM

Officer and a gentleman? OK maybe not, but if you find yourself outnumbered, up to your ass in mud, blood, and few options and you want some guy with heavy clankers to fly through a wall of steel to put something heavy on the bad guys to give you some breathing room, you'll offer up a prayer of thanksgving if one of these nasty, vulgar, uncouth airdales comes to your rescue. And if by some chance you later get an evening to celebrate your survival with him, you'll make sure he never pays for drink even as he ribs you for being a mere mortal in the presence of nature's only real warriors. Had I to have to choose between the homo-flinching pansies now masquerading as flag officers who want to throw this guy to the wolves and this rude, crude sky warrior.... well, it ain't no choice at all.

Pyroclastic| 1.6.11 @ 10:33PM

'Nother thing. If this guy's career as CO ENTERPRISE had NOT been jerked out from underneath him and had 'the big E' been sent into dangerous waters and CAG needed the boat to stay headed into danger to keep enough wind across the deck to recover a lagging sortie, every driver on the boat would soon get the word they could ALL count on this guy to go the distance for them. Credibility like that in a hot war is beyond price. It's what separates leaders from managers. It is the stuff of VICTORY against heavy odds.

Old Soldier| 1.6.11 @ 8:07AM

Capt. Honors was trained to fly incredibly high-performance unstable jets off a tiny floating runway. If a real war broke out, as XO he would have been leading a couple dozen jets straight at many hundreds of Chinese or Russian fighters. Of course he is crazy by civilian standards.

I'm glad that there weren't camera's around when I was on deployments. We tried to have fun any way possible to deal with the monotony and boredom. The self-righteous PC crowd who have appointment themselves as our leaders from the rear would have been outraged. The REMF's are truly in charge now.

Tom| 1.6.11 @ 8:12AM

Old Soldier,
I do not think anyone can diminish Honors courage. But his judgement is suspect. This was not a case of cameras being around he actively filmed his hijinx. I think you would have known better than to have people film your fun because everybody by this time understands there is no such thing as a private video clip. They always come out.

Honors should have known better.

Stormzeye| 1.6.11 @ 11:52AM

I agree with you Tom. There is no question that Honors had what it takes on many levels to advance as far as he did but his judgement is clearly questionable. He should have known he belonged to a "politically correct" institution that would never tolerate behavior such as his. This is an institution that wants to put women on submarines for crying out loud! For him to think he could get away with what he did in today's Navy makes me think he probably had poor judgement.

John II| 1.6.11 @ 12:46PM

On the other hand, maybe he's just a gutsy warrior type, unlike the paper-pushers, careerists, and such-like Obama suck-ups who now control the military.

As I believe I mentioned earlier, the military brass is the most flexible of American institutions and callings, quickly adapting to the signals communicated by the civilians in charge.

We'd better hope and pray that the Obamamaniacs are dispersed by 2012. Like it or not, we're a nation at war, and we need a manly military for these times.

Melvin| 1.6.11 @ 8:31AM

I guess it also could be said that it is not the Captain's job to personally to entertain the crew. That is what he as a MWR Officer for.
I remember when I was in. You only said three things if you should be-front the Commanding Officer. Good Morning Sir, Good Afternoon Sir, and Good Evening Sir. He was the, "Old Man" who never seemed to leave the Bridge, and always had a cup of coffee and burnt out cigarette left in the Captains Chair.
Back then Commanding Officers were to be respected and feared. By today's standard I don't know in whether or not by design or the breakdown of society that everyone wants to be everyones friend.
I know the Marine Corps has it's heels dug in, but I don't know about the rest of the services.

Brian Mc| 1.6.11 @ 8:36AM

Excellent points, M...

Old Soldier| 1.6.11 @ 10:12AM

Your statement is true for the Infantry. Naval Aviators have a completely different culture.

L. Ross| 1.6.11 @ 10:33AM

Melvin, I suggest you watch the video for yourself, so you can speak from a partially informed position. I saw the video, found it funny, and quite frankly not much different from stuff you can watch in prime time. With a lot more F-bombs.

JP| 1.6.11 @ 8:32AM

Our enemies our patient. Within a decade the first openly gay or lesbian will reach flag rank. Shortly after that, the first transgendered will be allowed to serve. Gay pride parades, wife/partner swapping will be allowed, and the number of Christians will drop. Muslim 5th jihadists will openly be allowed to serve. And by the time China or some other nation decides to take us on the JCS will feature a gay, a lesbian, and a polygamist.

Brian| 1.6.11 @ 8:36AM

The left has now ransacked every pillar of society. What"s left for them to destroy I shudder to think. I guess when they start confiscating our children we might resist but I wouldn't count on it.

Evanston2| 1.6.11 @ 2:03PM

Brian, You got it right. The children are next.

Sodominor| 1.6.11 @ 7:28PM

"The children are next."

Next? This is now.

Clint| 1.6.11 @ 8:41AM

The Wussification of America by The Wuss-in-Chief & all His/Her Wussifiers is underway.

Had Enough Yet ?

The Federal Government is provoking a Counter Rebellion.

oolong| 1.6.11 @ 12:06PM

ho hum

Clint| 1.6.11 @ 2:18PM

Look, A Wuss Hummer

PJ| 1.6.11 @ 8:41AM

We do not know all the facts. I do know this: we hold our military officers to a higher standard & Owen Honors failed. He should not have participated in any video depicting any sexual innuendos. He should at least be reprimanded.

The punishment in this case did not fit the crime esp during these times. As 1 radio show host stated, we barely have a handful of qualified captains who are capable of managing an aircraft carrier. Do we have time & money to train others on short notice? ----- NO.

And it has nothing to do w/DADT although those who made public this video are using homophobia as an excuse to ruin this officer's career.

Melvin| 1.6.11 @ 9:53AM

PJ, unfortunately like I mentioned before. This is not Bull Halsey's Navy any more. By today's standards in the military your guilty period. a court martial, Non Judicial Punishment is just a formality.
The military doesn't like problems. Captain Honor was a problem and they made that problem go away.
Just look at all the Marines and Seals whose careers were doomed by false reports spread by the Taliban that Marines and Seals committed atrocities.
The Taliban took cue from the Palestinians for staging fake atrocities for the media, that resulted in Court Martials.
You see PJ every Admiral envisions themselves as the next great Senator or Congressman. So therefore they are not going to do the right thing, but do what is best for their political career once they leave the Navy.
Bottom line there is no one protecting the warriors any more.
I had a Marine Commandant lie right to my face, when he said that if any Staff NCO gets a DUI, they would be administratively discharged. Unbeknownst to him, the academy director was a well know drunk and lush ,of whom who received a DUI, but allowed to remain in the service.
Don't get me wrong I'm still a proud Marine, but I lost allot of faith in those who have flag rank.

Evanston2| 1.6.11 @ 2:11PM

Melvin, With respect you may have heard the CMC wrong. Was this statement from a speech, or just in a personal encounter you had (which you may have misinterpreted). I say this because there's no way he could guarantee a discharge. The UCMJ and DOPMA protect servicemen from being kicked out without due process. Until the UCMJ is changed to specifically require a discharge after a verified DUI, the outcome of any legal action (particularly courts-martial) cannot be directed by CMC and max. punishments are limited based on the offense. I'm no fan of the current generation of general officers (who joined post-Vietnam, but pre-Reagan pay boost, so many are inferior), so either CMC was blowing it out his rear or you misinterpreted the comment.

Evanston2| 1.6.11 @ 2:11PM

Frank Drackman | 1.6.11 @ 9:06AM

Capt Honors should run for the 2012 Republican Presidential Nomination...
SURPRISE!, Military Pilots, especially Fighter Pilots tend to me Alpha Heterosexual Males, not whimpering Alan Alda's...
and when you've got a SU-27 on your 6, 35,000 feet over the Indian Ocean, you want Iceman up front, not that sissy boy "Cougar"...
I remember a lecture during my Navy Flight Surgeon Training, it was a Meterology class, but the Instructor spent 15 minutes talking about how he was a "Real" FIGHTER (i.e F-14) Pilot, not one of those FAGs(Fighter-Attack, i.e F-18 Pilots), yeah, only in the US Navy you could have your masculinity questioned for Flying F-18s...
and there was that time I punched the wrong button in the backseat of an FA-18D, deleting 16 8 digit waypoints the Pilot had spent the previous few minutes meticulously typing into the UFC so that the Moving Map Display would show the borders of the airspace we'd be working in..
"Doc, You HOMO!!!" he yelled over the Intercom, and I wasn't even a Homo, even if I did bring a Wilson Phillips CD on one flight.
and did I complain to the Squadron Commander? the Group Commander? the Commandant? the PRESIDENT?!?!?!?!
NO! I took it like a man, and typed in the waypoints myself, cause I liked flying in FA-18s, even in the back seat.

Frank

L. Ross| 1.6.11 @ 10:35AM

Finally, a relevant comment from someone with time in the Naval Aviation community. Thanks for posting.

Paul Milenkovic| 1.6.11 @ 2:35PM

What about Surface Warfare Officers? SWO's are officers too and deserving of respect!

Negro| 1.6.11 @ 5:31PM

SWOs eat their young.

Louis Jenkins| 1.6.11 @ 9:08AM

Let's face it folks, we are losing the conflict on homosexuality. The military reflects the standards and morals of its society, and when the big dogs, Obama and company, endorse homosexuality then we're in second place. A Captain must be an officer and a gentleman, but he must also be a warrior.

These videos are a couple of years old, so the anti-straight higher ups must have known about them at least a year or so ago. They were waiting to spring them on the public when the time was right.

Stormy| 1.6.11 @ 9:09AM

"Maybe the ships Executive Officer needs his head examined to, to allow such unbecoming conduct come from the ship's commanding officer."

Melvin, I believe that Honors was the XO when these videos were done.

Melvin| 1.6.11 @ 10:09AM

Stormy, I don't know the minutia of this, but has anyone discussed why now this surfaces if it happened months ago?

Old Soldier| 1.6.11 @ 10:16AM

It happened at least 5 years ago. It surfaced because somebody had a grudge with Honors and managed to torpedo his career.

Redstateboy| 1.6.11 @ 2:25PM

I had to page down and suffer through a bunch of postings to finally find someone to mention that this was made over 5 Freak'n Years Ago!!!!! WTF!! The guy was liked and respected by a majority of his crew. I knew the Liber-uls had it out for him when Brian Williams and NBC Nightly News led off with this on Tuesday as their lead story... Their Lead F..n Story!!!

NavyBrat | 1.6.11 @ 9:13AM

I've watched one of these videos & laughed my tuchus off. And these skits remind me A LOT of some of the stories my Dad told me about when he was at sea on the Saratoga during Vietnam. In my mind, Naval Aviators are second only to SEALS in their conciet, swagger, & macho/jock attitude. And rightly so. Your average pilot isn't required to land an aircraft on a pitching aircraft carrier deck, at night, in the rain, & catch one of 3 wires on a deck about 3 football fields long. A Naval Aviator IS. And expected to do it EVERY DAY & EVERY NIGHT. And they're expected to do it PERFECTLY, or people DIE.

People like this are not the type of folks to change their senses of humor to suit some PC liberal hack who thinks that the military should be another "social engineering" lab. Their job is to fight wars. Period. And for the record, I can both remember hearing from my Dad, & seeing in his cruise book, some pretty intense stuff when they had their Shellback Ceremony. Today, it probably resembles recess at kindergarted, I'm guessing. The famous "Chief's Initiation?" Used to be, if you didn't go through it, your weren't a chief. Now, from what I hear, not so much. I'm glad my Dad isn't around anymore to see what's happened to his Navy. And I'm sad for him.

JeffW| 1.6.11 @ 11:40AM

NavyBrat,
You aren't far off the mark. I retired from the navy in 2004. Chief's initiation had already changed to be more PC Correct. Everyone still went through initiation as a point of pride but it was stressed that they did not have to do anything they were uncomfortable with. Most still understand their is a difference between being a "Chief" and a E-7 in the Navy. E-7 made you a technical expert, "Chief" made you the tech expert, leader, protector, disclipinarian, respected, feared, and a role model.

CDR D (Ret)| 1.6.11 @ 1:10PM

NavyBrat & JeffW,

You are correct. This video is tame. I've seen far, far worse in many Focsle Follies skits. Fortunately for those participants it was never recorded on video.

I'm thankful I'm retired. I would not want to deal with the morale and leadership nightmares the repeal of DADT is going to impose on many of my fellow officers still on active duty. They don't need this s---.

JeffW| 1.6.11 @ 3:34PM

Amen CDR, Amen. Fair winds and following seas came just in time.

carnot| 1.8.11 @ 9:57AM

as a retired aviator......we all know the golden rule:

IF THERE IS ANY PR RISK...DON'T PUT IT ON TAPE, VIDEO....etc

the funny part is that normal judicial processes had already taken place. this is pure PC interference that violates the integrity of the process.

DON'T PUT IT ON PERSISTENT MEDIA - KNUCKLEHEAD.

Keith| 1.13.11 @ 10:23AM

I went through initiation in 2000 and I can definately say that even then it COULD NOT have been as difficult as previous times. I heard stories of guys getting their charge books shot through with a pistol. I retired last year and I am soooo glad that I made it out before this crap hit the fan. It was hard enough to run a division with out any of this stuff to deal with. I was involved with the hull swap in Japan between USS Essex and USS Belleau Wood. Essex had females onboard, Belleau Wood did not because we had no berthing area for them. When the Essex got to Sasebo 25% of the females onboard were pregnant. People say that the homos will be professional and not cause any problems. Yea right. Fag night on the Mess Decks anyone?

Tommy | 1.6.11 @ 9:25AM

Spokesmen for military groups representing gay soldiers also expressed dismay at the conduct of Honors.

Old Soldier| 1.6.11 @ 10:18AM

That comment explains more about why we didn't want to serve with open gays than any essay I read.

wbheff| 1.6.11 @ 2:30PM

There is nothing whatsoever "gay" about being sexually perverted.

wbheff| 1.6.11 @ 2:30PM

There is nothing whatsoever "gay" about being sexually perverted.

LiveFreeOrDie| 1.6.11 @ 6:25PM

Yes there is. No matter how much you don't want to admit it. For example, gay men commit a huge percentage of child molestations compared to heterosexual men. I can cite several studies but I doubt you'd care or believe them as facts have a way of irritating liberal pukes.

carnot| 1.8.11 @ 9:58AM

and why would that be? pure moral principle? or perhaps some downstream political objectives? gee. which could it it be?

Frank Drackman | 1.6.11 @ 9:29AM

There was this one time, at Band Camp...
OK, it was during a Port Call in Italy, and one of the Pilots had a little too much to drink..
Seems a few of the local Carabinieri tried to arrest the Marine Captain, and only suceeded in getting there Beretta Submachine guns AND there Fiat confiscated.
The Marine returned the car(how can you take a Fiat Police Car seriously?) and the weapons to the nearest Polizia Station.
And he was sent home on the Flight of Shame, an Air Force C-130 with stopovers in Iceland, Greenland, Gander, and worst of all New Jersey, given a shitty desk job for a few Months..
Guys a Colonel now, won a Silver Star in Afghanistan a few years back...
He didn't like Homos, especially after a few drinks...

Frank

NavyBrat | 1.6.11 @ 9:57AM

OOOH-RAAAH!!!

L. Ross| 1.6.11 @ 10:37AM

See, that is exactly the kind of man you want defending your nation. Anyone who thinks the military is filled with choir boys doesn't know the first thing about the military.

Pulver| 1.6.11 @ 9:52AM

Command requires a gulf between enlisted personel and officers. Honer's failure was in not keeping the distance. Years ago a Lady Flier was canned for her unmarried love affair. Everyone missed the point. It wasn't that they wern't married , it was that he was the spouse of an enlisted person. Every enlisted person is afraid that he'll have to pimp his spouse. The Officer-enlisted gulf prevents this. You can't give orders if you're a pal.

carnot| 1.8.11 @ 10:01AM

you may be missing the point......political correctness is blurring the lines between what is acceptable and unacceptable. it's a constantly changing standard prompted by people who do not serve but see the military as a crucible for advancing their value structures, political aims.

Thomas| 1.6.11 @ 9:55AM

There are three aspects to the Honors case.

The first is open homosexuality in the U.S. military. This is a complex issue and, due to activism, likely will become a nightmare for the military and the taxpayer. It is simply too extensive to get into here.

The second is the insidious creep of political correctness into all aspects of American life, including the military. Volumes could be written concerning this as well.

The third area is the maturity and strategic thinking of Captain Honors himself. As the XO of the carrier Enterprise, Honors actively engaged in the production of a video, or videos, that parodied life aboard the ship and in the Navy, at that time [2007]. By the standards of today's media [HBO, Showtime, Comedy Central and even SNL] it was rather tame and reportedly caused little or no complaint from personnel who had viewed it. But Honors' video debut was a stupendous strategic career blunder. He was no longer a Lieutenant flying F/A 18s off the deck, he was the number 2 man in charge of a floating city. He was expected to show judgment reflecting that position. In the Naval Service, Captains and Admirals are not combat commanders who have to possess political skills, they are politicians who are also expected to be effective combat commanders. They are expected to effectively fight battles in the boardrooms of the Pentagon and the halls of Congress. To do this, the officer has to cultivate and exhibit a mature, strong, thoughtful personality. As a Naval Commander and the Executive Officer of one of the largest ships in the United States Navy, Honors was expected to know that and behave accordingly. He failed to do that. He even failed to follow the first rule that a modern child learns; video is forever. He also forgot the old caution to never do anything that might embarrass your superiors.

That he was the target of of a campaign to discredit him, as well as the Navy, while advancing a social agenda, is evident. But, also evident is that, as a senior officer, he failed to exhibit the mature behavior expected of a senior officer. While the penalties imposed for his behavior in 2007 are probably excessive, they should not be unexpected.

Nick Holden| 1.6.11 @ 11:52AM

Well said. I am speculating here, but I would not be surprised if CAPT Honors had a long, successful run in Fo'c'sle Follies as a Junior Officer and took the opportunity to revisit those "glory" days when he had the opportunity as XO.

It's [Still] The Law!| 1.6.11 @ 9:56AM

TITLE 10--ARMED FORCES
Subtitle C--Navy and Marine Corps
PART II--PERSONNEL
CHAPTER 551--OFFICERS IN COMMAND
Sec. 5947. Requirement of exemplary conduct

All commanding officers and others in authority in the naval service are required to show in themselves a good example of virtue, honor, patriotism, and subordination; to be vigilant in inspecting the conduct of all persons who are placed under their command; to guard against and suppress all dissolute and immoral practices, and to correct, according to the laws and regulations of the Navy, all persons who are guilty of them; and to take all necessary and proper measures, under the laws, regulations, and customs of the naval service, to promote and safeguard the morale, the physical well-being, and the general welfare of the officers and enlisted persons under their command or charge.

John G| 1.6.11 @ 10:05AM

Quite right. Shouldn't this have also applied to a certain former commander-in-chief who received an air start in the oval office?

Ted| 1.6.11 @ 10:33AM

Nonsense... This was not even in the league of the type of things this refers to, and you know it.

Was it silly, infantile, and ridiculous? Yes. But it was equally silly, infantile, and ridiculous to relieve him for it, especially since it happened 3-4 years ago.

Frank Drackman | 1.6.11 @ 10:55AM

Good thing Patton was in the Army, or we'd all be sprechin the freaky deaky Deutsch...

Ned| 1.6.11 @ 11:48AM

...coffee... out my nose... burns... LMAO!!

Will| 1.6.11 @ 10:14AM

Wow, this sure has gotten lot's of "front & center" attention. Apparently, something had to be done. Honors was removed. Quick as you like, justice for the begrieved! (is that a word?) On a weird aside, I wonder what's become of the world's longest Court Martial, the one involving the Ft. Hood jihadist, Major Nidal? The Honors thing isn't really shocking to me, that Ft. Hood massacre sure was! Wonder why their isn't a boatload of coverage on that horrifying topic?

L. Ross| 1.6.11 @ 10:39AM

Will:

It is aggrieved. Kudos for bringing up Nidal. Always good to keep our minds focused our our real enemy. islam.

KyMouse| 1.6.11 @ 10:40AM

My father and his fellow soldiers in the Philippines during WWII sang songs such as "I'm Dreaming of a White Mistress." How racist, insensitive and un-multiculti! Tough. They did a lot of bleeding and dying over there in order to save the Philippino people, and some of them (including my father) never fully recovered from the ravages of the malaria they suffered. Not to mention the bullet and shrapnel wounds.

I'm waiting to see how long it takes for a transgendered man or woman in uniform to insist on serving, showering and bunking with the opposite sex.

Ultimately, I think this will be about employers being required to hire GLBT folks despite the company or organization's values. For example, a Christian institution or company (such as a Christian publication) might be forced to hire unrepentant GLBTs. I wonder if Muslim institutions/companies would have to comply as well.

Evanston2| 1.6.11 @ 2:20PM

KyMouse, You're right. If we can force a social experiment when national defense is at stake, and on our biggest social institution (marriage) then what is exempt? Answer: nothing. Stand by for the "affirmative action." You're also right that Christian institutions will not be exempt. Neither will Muslim, though I strongly suspect that GLBTs won't even try there because they know what will happen to them. No good deed goes unpunished, and that's why persecuting Christians (comply or you're out of business) is the singular feature of 21st Century America.

Doctor Right| 1.6.11 @ 11:09AM

The real problem here is that the Left views the military as just another bureaucratic branch of the Federal Gov't, and as such, it should be subject to all of the silly, politically correct rules that apply to those who toil in the bureaucracy.

Of course, those who work in the Dept. of Education or at the E.P.A. don't put their lives on the line when they go to work each day, but to the left, that's irrelevant. Soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen are essentially government employees to the Left, and as such, they must be subjected to the Left's politically correct idiocy.

The end result of repealing DADT is that it WILL cause competent officers and non-coms to muster themselves out of the service, and it will cause many interested young men and women to avoid a career in military service.

And, as we have now seen with Capt. Honor. it will cause highly capable officers to be sacrificed on the alter of political correctness. The men and women of the armed services purposefully put their lives in jeopardy for our freedoms. Who gives a flying "eff" whether a dingbat like Glenn
Close is "offended"??

Honor's Commanding officer is a disgrace. He took an oath to defend the Constitution, not political correctness. If he had any honor himself, he would have resigned rather than see a highly capable subordinate have his career destroyed because of a "raunchy" video that dared to make fun of gays.

As Mr. Neumayer aptly points out, no one humiliates Gays more than Gays themselves. Ever been to a Halloween parade in Greenwich Village? Seen the Fulton Street Fair in San Francisco? Disgusting.

Dan Summers| 1.6.11 @ 2:42PM

Doc you are right on the part of "Left views the military as just another bureaucratic branch of the Federal Gov't, and as such, it should be subject to all of the silly, politically correct rules that apply to those who toil in the bureaucracy." I would like to go further with this statement to include an unwilling participant. When has the American Military ever rose up as a single entity and overthrew the government? Not once, and I say with confidence not here either. Hence, this is why the left sees the military as a test bed because of one aspect to the military core beliefs, following orders. This repeal is not going to be an illegal order as it does not go against the Constitution; does not hinder the freedoms of the US Citizen, does not confiscate property, nor does it prohibit the movement, or speech of the US Citizen, last does not hinder the defense from our enemies. Service to the United States is still voluntary, if you do not agree with policies set forth get out, Catholic Chaplains are being told that if they cannot accept same sex issues they are to think about resigning their commission (yes DOMA applies to the Military but a fight is happening now for that repeal). Therefore experiments in social reform are happening in the military. DADT came about because the TOP leaders of the military threaten to drop their stars on Clinton’s desk and DADT was a compromise to what he really wanted. People are misled when it is said that the military tends to lean conservative. That may be correct to an extent on the enlisted side, but the officers are still being educated in liberal politically corrected universities and have replaced the cold war guard that stood up to former President Clinton.

Vaemar| 1.6.11 @ 11:39AM

Yhe President could end all this with a phone call. A patriotic president would. The one good thing to come our of this mess is that Obama has shown his true colours. There can no longer be any doubt that he is not a mainmstream American politician, even a mainstream-liberal-left one. He is a hard leftist who hates America and is out to destroy the military.

CPO Mike| 1.6.11 @ 11:43AM

When a Navy SEAL gets reprimanded for giving a Muslim enemy combatant a well-deserved rap in the mouth, it’s time to face facts: The c*ntification of our once-beloved Navy is complete, Captain Honors.

May God bless you for your service.

Steve A| 1.6.11 @ 12:06PM

It is just sooooo good to know that the commander of an US aircraft carrier, which is capable of destruction on a massive scale, has benn fired because he hurt someone's feelings.

Patton is probably feeling empathy somewhere.

Jari| 1.6.11 @ 12:12PM

Looks to me like the real sin is that "anti gay slur".

Let the purge begin.

Robert Pinkerton| 1.6.11 @ 5:53PM

My uncle, the late CDR Harold R. Barr MD, USNMC, called homo-erotic male carnal transactions, "... a meeting of probity with rectitude.."

Nick| 1.6.11 @ 6:11PM

Mr. Pinkerton,

Ha-ha!

I'm going to have to remember that one.
Thank you!

Richard Baker| 1.6.11 @ 12:16PM

Sad commentary on the PC quality of the civilian and senior military leadership. Saw the video and it was hilarious. As the XO, he was trying to loosen up the crew who are already on edge due to long deployments and a 24 hour a day existence. By the way, Honors was a Captain in the video. Saw his eagles.

CPO Mike:
Another stupid episode was LTC Allen West being hung out to dry for firing a pistol near the head of a terrorist to get intel which saved the lives of his his people.

CPO Mike| 1.6.11 @ 12:28PM

Too right, Richard. West would've been better off if he'd only adjusted his pistol's windage a tad!

Beth Ann Wilson| 1.6.11 @ 12:16PM

George Neumayr seems to think that "open sexuality" in the military means performing what he thinks of as "raunchy behavior" and "aberrant sexual expression" on the parade ground. No, George, being "open" about one's sexuality simply means being who you are, not having to lie or to pretend to be someone you are not. This has nothing much to do with the Honors videos which were, as it happened, performed "on the parade ground."

Evanston2| 1.6.11 @ 2:30PM

Beth Ann, You say that "...being 'open' about one's sexuality simply means being who you are, not having to lie or to pretend to be someone you are not." Oh, really? DOD hasn't even issued implementing instructions regarding DADT repeal. You have no idea what this "simply means" and I know (as a retired USMC officer) that it will be anything but simple. You just put countless lives at risk to fit your version of true human behavior. It seems some other humans don't agree. Forcing this on people at the point of a gun (and after all, that's what makes all law & regulation enforceable) is really what you're up to. Homosexuality is repulsive, but according to you it is now the heterosexuals who must 'lie or pretend to be someone you're not.' You have your head or something else inserted in your rectum.

TPS Class 99| 1.6.11 @ 12:17PM

I've know OP for 20+ years. He is an American hero, a great leader of his sailors, an outstanding pilot, and close friend. I watched the video and laughed my @$$ off. OP is fair and honest, leads from his heart. Any judgement into him not supporting the chain of command is false. You may not agree with policy but as a senior Naval Officer you must support it. If you think OP's gay jokes make him a poor leader or exhibits poor judgement you have not seen the video. Today a fag/dike can come out and expect to be supported and hugged by everyone. But a heterosexual comes out and makes a joke and he's crucified. OP's jokes and views on gays are hand n hand with 90%+ of our population. The Navy has screwed this one up just like they did with Tailhook. Great leaders continue to fall. YGTBSM

wbheff| 1.6.11 @ 2:36PM

Make that 98% of the population and you will be more accurate

Rick Z| 1.6.11 @ 12:38PM

"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
- Winston Churchill

Able Dog| 1.7.11 @ 3:07PM

George Orwell, not Churchill, said that.

Frank Drackman | 1.6.11 @ 12:40PM

Honor's real mistake was poking fun at the Gay "SWO* Boy", its not a coincidence that the Ball-less current Chairman of the JCS is a SWO*, makes me puke everytime I see him parading around in camoflouged fatigues, Richard Simmons has more testosterone than that panty waste...

* "SWO" = "Surface Warfare Officer", those guys not smart enough for Nukes, cool enough to fly, and have a perpetual stick up there asses cause they don't get flight pay/bonuses/chicks and there Uniforms look stupid...

Nick| 1.6.11 @ 12:55PM

"Richard Simmons has more testosterone than that panty waste..."

Now that's funny, right there!
I don't care who you are.

Dai Alanye | 1.6.11 @ 12:44PM

This comment string is far too long and vastly too ignorant. Anyone who hasn't spent significant time in the military lacks the experience to comment intelligently on the Honors incident, and ought to retract his/her post.

(Not that I expect it to happen.)

Franco| 1.6.11 @ 12:59PM

There was an arty in the NY Times today about how the Chinese are upping their naval capabilities with an eye towards eventually challenging the USA for dominance in the Pacific (apparently the're purchasing, e.g., Cold-War-era Soviet carriers and refitting them with modern, state-of-the-art hardware and anti-carrier missles). Then this crap happens--for no good reason at all, except to take advantage of the DADT repeal and make a stupid political point.

We are so screwed. I'm chaning my name to Chang and all the names of my family, too.

Derek Leaberry| 1.6.11 @ 1:15PM

The aftermath of Admiral Mullen's betrayal of the American military as a historically honorable and beloved institution is that the American military is now operationally left-wing. Another American institution has fallen to the left. Sadly, the conservative movement and the Republican Party cowered before Barrack Obama, Secretary Gates, Admiral Mullen and the homosexual lobby on the issue. And certain "conservatives" like Jonah Goldberg, Aaron Goldstein, Philip Klein, David Brooks and David Frum enthusiastically support the homosexualization of the military.

It would appear clear that the Mullen military has earned severe budget cuts as the Mullen military is anti-conservative. The first place to start should be drastic budget reductions for the cesspool on the Severn in Annapolis which gave us the squalid Admiral Mullen.

Melvin| 1.6.11 @ 1:39PM

Many of the Flag Rank Officers, are not worth a tinkers damn, in sticking up for the warrior class in the military.
They don't want to make any waves in their careers that might detract from their future political ambitions.

Dan Summers| 1.6.11 @ 1:48PM

This type of humor is throughout all military branches, it is funny in a spoof kind of way. Saw the videos and did not see anything wrong, but of course I am heterosexual. But it is a senior leader that is the ring leader of these humors skits, not an enlisted where such behavior can be explained away as blowing off steam, for example, the You Tube skit of some joes out in some distant FOB reenacting Lady Gaga. Senior Leaders are not suppose to display this type of behavior and unfortunately Captain Honors is going to be the poster child as to why we need “sensitivity training towards gays”. It is not a coincidence that these four year old videos have now surfaced, I bring everyone back to the commission the Sec Def Gates brought in to guide him through creating policies as an addon to EEO directives concerning gay military members. One of their recommendations was a series of REQUIRED sensitivity training to heterosexuals on their conduct towards fellow gay soldiers, that Commanding Officers will not allow complaints from “straight” soldiers requesting to be housed, or use of separate showering facilities as it would create an atmosphere of equal but separate as with white and black segregation during WWII. Many Commanders from Platoon level up to Battalion have stated their unwillingness to command their soldiers too said training. Captain Honors is the message to those leaders.

Melvin | 1.6.11 @ 2:06PM

Bingo. Dan just asked the million dollar question in why all of a sudden in why this video pops up now.
The old sensitivity training thang.
You will go, you will like it, and you will conform come hell or high water.
I went to sensitivity training in 1999. It was sickening and disgusting to have to be forced to sit through that crap.
Sensitivity hell, it's forced social re-engineering. Basically the commanding officer have a choice careers or conforming to the homosexual lifestyle.
Captain Honors is the shot across the bow of those commanders who refuse.
I know it's easy to say for me to say this. But to send a message to the government. The best message that could be sent is, a mass exodus of field grade officers leaving the service. And another mass exodus of enlisted personnel.

Erich Riesenberg| 1.6.11 @ 2:17PM

Are there no patriots left in this country?

How can every other country survive gays in the military yet ours is bound to fail?

Defeatist America hating losers.

Evanston2| 1.6.11 @ 2:40PM

Erich, You answer your own question. Those countries "survive." How? Behind U.S. They are moral parasites, like you. "America hating?" YOU are the one urging us to be like OTHER COUNTRIES. Idiot.

Grzmlyk| 1.6.11 @ 3:22PM

Do you guys from the Huff Post/Daily Kos really think it's still clever jujutsu to turn epithets that describe you against conservatives?

Yeah, those of us who want a strong military that is not the de-fanged bitch of political correctness are the "defeatest America hating losers."

Meanwhile, it is YOU who make it practically a sexual fantasy to abolish our borders, drain away our economic and military strength, erradicate our sovereignty and abjectly succumb to a globalist progressive Marxism.

You see, you're not fooling anyone - just as you didn't fool anyone under Bush when you pretended that "the highest form of patriotism" is to trash America.

So: WHO'S the defeatest, America-hating loser?

YOU.

Rocco| 1.6.11 @ 2:26PM

Para 1: "..political correctness in the military guaranteed his firing..."

Don't blame political correctness blame a failure of leadership.

Although political correctness has some bearing in his being relieved, his failure of leadership is the violation of stated Navy policy.

What policy say ye? Like it or not, and let me say it again, like it or not, the policy is DoD's and the USN's EEO policy -- "Unlawful discrimination against persons or groups based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin is contrary to good order and discipline and is counterproductive to combat readiness and mission accomplishment. Unlawful discrimination shall not be condoned."

So what then could occur? If by using "SWO-fag" and "gay" in a method and, and most importantly, in a position that institutionalizes the discrimination, a straight sailor who, for whatever reason is perceived as gay (too masculine, too feminine, not 'gender-normed' enough, etc) could be subjected to harassment not because that person is gay, but because some thought that person is gay ---- even though the person is not gay.

Do you think it doesn’t occur? Think twice. But whether or not it occurs is not the issue. The XO --- in his role as XO --- repeatedly created stereotypes that, whether or not he liked it, fostered an environment that violates the policy. If commanders repeatedly violate or create a command environment that violates the EEO policy, senior leadership loses confidence in the ability to command.

Old Soldier| 1.6.11 @ 8:50PM

You site policy like a true HR weenie.

I would never behave that way or tolerate that behavior in a corporate office. Unlike the Pentagon, the USS Enterprise is not an office building. It is their home for months on end and a deployment can demand almost around the clock work.

The Navy, right or wrong, doesn't allow booze on their ships. So there absolutely has to be a way to blow off steam and relieve tension - or else there will be brawls and insubordination. Seen it.

carnot| 1.8.11 @ 7:37PM

but he never cites stats or judicial outcomes that validate his claim. see how the game is played?

Evanston2| 1.6.11 @ 2:48PM

Rocco, Well done in citing DOD policy. But did you read it? There is nothing in there (yet, no less 5 years ago) about being protected because you are gay or perceived as such. Why is it that armies have been masculine institutions? Perhaps because the losers were less so and lost in a 'survival of the fittest?' Maybe not. But you're betting the whole nation, lots of lives, limbs, and (what heretofore has been) freedom in your little social experiment. But then again, the freedom to stick something up one's anus rates far above anything else, doesn't it? You can't find it in the Constitution but we're told it has mysteriously appeared ex nihilo. Fool.

Rocco| 1.6.11 @ 3:47PM

I'm not sure as yet but think that he also violated the don't pursue" aspect of that federal law DATD by creating a climate where harassment was accepted.

Rocco| 1.6.11 @ 6:01PM

A passing couple of notes:
- My desire to engage in the discussion was to talk about why IMHO FFC saw fit to relieve him of is job. I don't know where I stated or alluded to my thoughts on "social experiments. I haven't stated it.
- What edgy language would have been acceptable? What would/should have happened if, say, the dreaded n-word or other ethnic slurs were used? Res ipsa loquitur.

Evanston2| 1.6.11 @ 8:28PM

Rocco, Regarding your "desire to engage in this discussion" you cited an EEO policy and then ignored its language when attempting to apply it to this situation. Your "desire" is quite evidently to apply a policy far beyond its scope, as it existed 5 years ago. Even after DADT repeal, applying EEO policies to ensure that anyone who makes a "gender-normed" remark is counseled/punished is absolutely social experimentation. Regarding slurs, they work because the behavior itself is repugnant. You can call it 'homosexual' or 'gay' and it's OK with the language police, but the word 'fag' is verboten though it means the same thing. The connotation is merely one of disapproval, and that's enough to rate counseling/punishment. Words can be oh so tricky: using 'gay' as a noun is evidently OK but saying that something is 'gay' as an adjective is bad, eh (because the speaker engaged in the dreaded stereotyping). 'Homosexual' is OK but shorten it to 'homo' and you're in trouble. Choose your favorite Latin phrase, it adds up to a hostile work environment for heterosexuals who are forced to say that unhealthy and vile homosexual practices are OK. Go ahead, gamble the outcome of battles, wars, or even the existence of the U.S. in an effort to justify lust as equal to love. A force built on the ethic of pleasure first will suddenly change to one of sacrifice, right, when the bullets fly? I hope you or your loved ones join this effort and reap its results.

carnot| 1.8.11 @ 7:40PM

it moves everything where AMerica hating clowns like Rocco want them to move: intent. Sen Reid utters something racist - it's ok...we know he didn't mean it. Capt Honors makes some gay jokes.....he's a homophobe! see how neatly justice can be deployed?

these people are dangerous beyond imagination.

Evanston2| 1.6.11 @ 7:56PM

Rocco, You're "not sure as yet?" When will you be? Track back for a second. Gays were not protected by the EEO policy you cited. So using a slur against them in general (more on that later) cannot be taken to create a hostile work environment (EEO does not pertain), nor does this constitute "pursuit" per se since involved no actual pursuit of anyone at all. But hey, you can continue your pursuit -- of being "sure."

Don Gaines| 1.6.11 @ 3:02PM

It has been stated that they punished Honors a few years back on this matter but it made it in to the public eye so I guess that justifies duel punishment right. Now consider the cost of training any person to the point where he is now. Can we really afford to just throw that expense away? I say let him go to command and stop the show and tell whining once is enough.

Nick| 1.6.11 @ 3:24PM

Glenn Close always looks like a lesbo, by the way.
Even in Fatal Attraction.

Her best role was in The Paper.
I could watch her get punched out by Michael Keaton all day long.

Grzmlyk| 1.6.11 @ 3:31PM

Nick, I agree with you there!

I've always thought that, for a man, Glenn Close was reasonably feminine looking.

Imagine my shock when I found 0ut she wasn't a drag queen.

Nick| 1.6.11 @ 3:41PM

Ha-ha!

You are on a roll today, Grzmlyk.

Cincinnaticl6| 1.6.11 @ 3:57PM

Remember, this did not happen yesterday, and Honors was the XO at the time and not the commanding officer. These basic facts leave a lot of questions to be asked.

As soon as "DADT" is eliminated an outside media source digs up a four year old video. Who helped that to happen?

How many more times is this going to happen, and what is the statute of limitations going to be on any past discretions?

If if I'm not mistaken, honors was the XO, but the commanding officer is in charge, and is ultimately responsible, for what happens on his ship. What happened to him? It sounds like he didn't have access to a television in order to watch his crew's videos.

If this was known about in the fleet, what happened to the officers higher up?

Also remember a sad but true fact. Many Admirals and Generals have become basic bureaucrats climbing the ladder of high command. Their promotions depend on a vote of Congress and the signature of the President. The result is that many ambitious officers become simply "brown nosers" and "boot lickers" in order to get ahead. In the world of Political Correctness, they know what path to take.

Finally, if Honors actions looked like a frat house routine, then look at the ages of the men under his command and what they watch, do , and read. The important information he was passing on was probably seen and understood by the men in a much more beneficial way than in a dry lecture.

Personally, I don't care how warped his sense of humor is, but I do care if he can fight that carrier in the manner for which it was designed. He didn't make the rank of Captain workout a reason, and it sounds like "boot licking" wasn't one of the reasons.

doolittle| 1.6.11 @ 4:03PM

funny isn't it that a video meant to entertain and joke about life in the service is enough to ruin a career, while the VP saying 'It's a f****** big deal on an open mike to the Cin C is just a joke!

ONTIME| 1.6.11 @ 4:03PM

I remember when Streep used her movie expertise to wreck the apple farming industry, her infamous opinion counted about as much as Close and her playing(?) a Navy lesbian aboard ship...

When I was in the military, there were homosexuals serving, as long as they did not make their life style evident among a hetrosexual majority serving along side them, little was said. Making a issue of a unatural lifestyle and one that offends normal hetrosexuls for the most part, coupled with religious belief is asking for big time trouble. Making that decision to remove that Captain from command, three years after the fact and having admirals on board at the time to witness the dire deed poor at best, it is going to have repercussion, the situation was not handled properly or in a manner befitting times.....Good thing Captain Honor's did not ask to see (CIC) Barry's birth certificate.

A pen| 1.6.11 @ 4:34PM

Can we get some public exposure of the commaner in chief? Thought not.

rdman| 1.6.11 @ 6:16PM

Talk about a bunch of hysterical bullcrap…

Today’s Navy is not the Navy I knew. The Pentagon, Navy Brass and the pussies that post on this thread who never served a day in the world’s greatest military are just that… politically correct insanity, hysterically neurotic, pussified girly-boys.

It was not too long ago when another lame-stream media weasel reporter from Rollingstone brought down another honorable WARRIOR, a MAN of accomplishment and admired by his troops… General Stanley McChrystal.

This is simply the continued emasculation and vicious attacking of our military during times of military conflict. We are now ruled by a perverted 2% A-hole bandits of the population… PATHETIC!!!

rdman| 1.6.11 @ 6:31PM

Speaking of General Stanley McChrystal and the hit job on this warrior by the PC weasel lame-stream media and the idiot in our WH, I wrote this post for the pussies who know nothing of the military and every day barracks talk. These military warriors put everything on the line to protect your right to be a girly-by wuss!
====

This current Afghanistan situation is nothing more than a red-herring, a straw-man hit job on a frustrated military warrior general who was appalled by Pentagon JAG officers who repeatedly modified and countermanded his war engagement tactics with politically expedient tactics that directly caused the unnecessary deaths of his soldiers. He was constantly under-mined and back-stabbed by this Administration’s in-country civilians.

At Officer’s Club tents in Viet Nam, I sat with many senior officers, who after a few stiff drinks blasted the civilian Commander-in-Chief and his staff as buffoons, idiots and morons. The president was referred to as “Light Bulb” Johnson and a helleva’ lot worse. The Secretary of Defense was referred to as “Edsel” McNamara and a helleva’ worse. Same-same with visiting congressional representatives.

This is common daily military barracks and military club talk. Enlisted men disliked certain NCOs and said so in uncertain terms. NCOs disliked certain officers and said so in uncertain terms. Most of this was tolerated as “blowing off steam”, especially after difficult combat operations with many wounded and killed. If someone went too far, he was reprimanded to “cool it” by his group. Embedded reporters of that era also considered the trash talk as a non-issue.

Occasionally, a senior officer, with tongue-in cheek would direct the troops to knock off the trash talking, and then announce a new shipment of Australian beer had just arrived.

After speaking with many Iraqi and Afghanistan veterans at Veteran Administration Medical Centers, the same military barracks talk endures.

Based on a Rolling Stone weasel-reporter’s article, the egocentric, megalomaniac, hypersensitive, petulant, little street-organizer boy, trying desperately to be a manly POTUS, creates a public spectacle to bring down a hero four star warrior general.

PATHETIC…

BackToBasics| 1.6.11 @ 8:06PM

Apparently, only straight white males can cause such an "offense" to the left. And the Right lets this captain get thrown overboard.

I still think that only a major and hopefully, non-lethal national crisis or crises will smack enough leftward thinking out of the national psyche to get us back on a positive conservative track. It often takes a crisis to focus the mind on what is truly Important. The nail-biting reactions found in the "political 'correctness'" way of looking at things is both abnormal and ultimately it will prove to be not very Important in engendering national health, strength and stability.

This PC nonsense is nothing more than a big national experiment in leftist thinking that will come to an end and also fail in the end.

John II| 1.7.11 @ 1:04AM

I think I said this some time in the past too, but I do remember thinking, in the immediate wake of 9/11, "This will be forgotten within a few months."

In fact, it was at least a whole year before the usual suspects started crawling out from under their rocks in substantial numbers to resume the anti-American mantras. I remember all this rather well because I work in an environment (academia) in which most people are of the boutique hate-America disposition. What I remember is being astonished by how long it took for the creeps to start showing their teeth again.

Who knows? Maybe it will take two whole years the next time--after New York or LA or Chicago is flattened by a low-yield suitcase nuke, or the equivalent.

Strange how the left-liberal culture itself is the primary target of the jihadists for whom western liberals make excuses. If left-liberals were the only victims of jihadist terror, perhaps it wouldn't matter all that much--rather like the internecine murders of organized crime syndicates.

But the degenerate image of America projected by the left makes us all targets.

NavyBrat | 1.6.11 @ 8:26PM

I know I've posted this before, but I feel it to be pertinent to this discussion.

This PC crap in the military is nothing new. There has been "diversity training" in the service for quite some time. The beginning of it started some time after Vietnam. I'll relate this story that my Dad told me about this nonsense.

During Vietnam, my Dad was one of two dentists on the Saratoga on Yankee Station. My Dad lost shipmates & good friends. Guys that flew off the boat & never came back. He also saw some pretty horriffic injuries. After Vietnam, my Dad was stationed at Annapolis. One day, he had the honor of working on Cdr. Jack Fellowes, a former guest at the Hanoi Hilton. He & my Dad got along very well, to the point where they even went & had drinks at the O Club later that evening.

A few weeks later, the word comes down from the powers that be that officers in all depts. were to undergo "sensitivity training." My Dad & Cdr. Fellowes were in the same "class" for this training session. At the front of the room, there was a civilian contractor with a reel to reel tape deck. He then told the assembled officers that this training would involve them having to hear things that they would find offensive & then discuss these things in a "rational" manner. He then played the tape on the reel to reel. The tape was of Hanoi Jane Fonda & her radio broadcasts from Hanoi & some of her more choice anti American screeds. Cdr. Fellowes stood up, picked up the reel to reel from the table, & smashed it on the floor into a million little pieces. He then told the civilian that he could report him to whoever he wanted. That he would sit Captain's Mast if he had to, but that he WOULD NOT listen to Hanoi Jane. Fellowes told the civy, "I was in jail for 6 & a half years & I had to listen to that b*tch, & I don't ever have to listen to that b*tch again." As he walked out of the room, the crowd of assembled officers stood up & clapped for him as he walked out.

This new crap with DADT being repealed is cut from the same cloth as those classes back then. Same social engineering tactic. So now, in addition to ALL the OTHER sensitivity training our troops undergo so as not to "offend" anyone, they'll have to have THAT MUCH MORE of it. Last I checked, the job of the military was to kill our enemies. Plain & simple. Its not to promote liberal ideas of "social justice."

Here's the skinny on Capt. Jack Fellowes (he retired as an O-6):

http://blog.usni.org/2010/05/0.....s-usn-ret/

retired navy| 1.6.11 @ 10:25PM

sed to be that officers would put their lives and reps on the line for their men. Now-a-days, the vast majority of the senior ranking officer will put the lives of their men on the live to save their political asses. I'm glad I retired 29 years ago, I'd most likely kick the shit out of some of these PC bastards, mike mullen included.

Pyroclastic| 1.6.11 @ 10:45PM

BRAVO ZULU!

You nailed it!

Pelligrino| 1.7.11 @ 1:12AM

Thank you for that story from Annapolis.

The problem is not so much that the senstivity training is so pathetically moronic it is that is somehow ALWAYS DOES TAKE PLACE yet ...

generators go unrepaired, new mechanics don't learn their specialities, everyone does not get the necessary ammo and time on live-fire ranges, night-fire doesn't occur, new communications systems are not properly tested, supply stockages are not filled, drivers still don't have enough hours behind the wheel to be qualified, no one has yet used the new NODS, some still don't yet meet the physical fitness standards, no practices of night convoys have been done in six months, etc., etc.

"But sensitivity training -- all 4 hours of it today in the base theater -- sir, that was conducted for all! Yes, sir!"

"And 6 hours, Part III, is scheduled to start at 0900 tomorrow, sir!"

(Admiral Mullen is smiling somewhere....)

In our absurd military of today, ALL service members are certain to sit through hours of mindless drivel couched as POSH (and other sick acronyms) yet the real BASICS of military duty & existence take a back seat.

*POSH training numbers have to be 100% by units and these are reported directly up the stove pipe chains of command to the PENTAGON itself! Goolllllyyy! As if these stats were as important as service members completing a rigorous bayonet course or stressful battlefield first aid.

You are always strapped for resources in the military. And there is NEVER enough TIME.

If a reader here is still in the military: Kick, scream, yell, go nuts until your chain of command dumps all the mindless 'sensitivity' frivolities and gets back to basics.

Your butt and your buddy's butt depend on it.

CPO Mike| 1.6.11 @ 10:39PM

I began active duty in the Navy in 1982, retiring in 2003. Somewhere along the way, our official slogan went from "Navy: It's not just a job, it's an adventure," to "America's Navy: A global force for good."

"A global force for good"?! Christ, not even a mainline of Viagra could pump that flaccid proclamation up!

It's as if we're now saying, "Hey, don't worry, folks! When we're not actually TASKED with killing bad guys, then we're plenty occupied with building orphanages, helping out at soup kitchens, picking up trash along our nation's highways, and rescuing the errant kitten from the tree."

A sad sign of the times, for sure. Nevertheless, I'm proud to have served.

J.C.Eaton| 1.7.11 @ 12:24AM

Everything Col. NathanR. Jessup said was true.

CPO Mike| 1.8.11 @ 11:11AM

Absolutely right, J.C.

It's perfectly acceptable for the general public to rip into our military and its practices, until the sh*t hits the fan. Or, the planes hit the buildings.

Capt G| 1.7.11 @ 2:16AM

Left out of this misunderstanding of how life exists on board ship is the role of the Executive Officer.

The XO is the operational arm of the Captain. The Captain makes his desires known and the XO executes those desires. The Captain remains above it all, aloof. The Captain may allow himself to be a perfectly pleasant man, while his XO carries out the unpleasantness that results from his commands.
The XO is generally expected to be the biggest pr*** on the ship. It's his job to assign all the dirty work lest the Captain's eyes be assaulted by anything less than shipshape. The XO's job is to generally ruin your whole day.

Like most traditions, there is a reason for this one. If one is to command, one must become accustomed to giving unpopular orders without feeling the need or compulsion to explain, no matter how onerous or ridiculous the orders may be. Sailors may smile when the Old Man passes by; no one smiles when the XO hoves into sight.

What makes the skits funny, and why there is a Facebook site of crewmembers in support of the skits and the XO, is that it is the XO in the skits. It's not the freakin' laundry and morale officer or the newest Ensign on board; it's Darth Vader himself in the skits. And I don't care who ya are; that's funny! Nobody else could carry it off to such effect and that's why the crew ate it up. It is tension and tedium relieving because it's done by the proximate cause of the crew's daily tension, the exacter of standards. And you can bet that every CPO instructed every seaman striker that he'd get a shackle upside his head if he thought of so much as cracking a grin at the XO passing by afterwards.

The Captain could never do such a thing; God does not josh. The Captain cannot even pretend that it happened, though of course he knows it did, and may even have facilitated it. And it takes a very confident XO to do such a thing, confident in his capabilities, his position, and his ability to command. Most XO's wouldn't have done it because they lack the confidence of both their position and their leadership...plus they're just wound too tight.

The effectiveness of the skits lays in the viewer's eyes, not our's. A crew will respect and work for a hard-driving XO who is consistent and fair, albeit hard. If they can catch a glimpse of the fact that this hard man is also quite human, they'll not only work for him, they'll love him. There are over 5000 men on board and 4,500 of them will never so much as speak to the XO in a year at sea. It is entirely up to the command structure of the ship to craft what that conversationless relationship will look like. Commander Honors, and his Captain, decided that for at least a brief moment, that relationship would look decidely human and even empathetic to the lowest seaman on board.

Captain Honors can sail with me anytime.

ps
and that's why Vice-Presidents are free to say and do things the President cannot for decorum's sake. Presidents and the masters of ships cannot ever be seen or taken as less than seriously.

rongordo | 1.7.11 @ 7:18AM

You almost made the point. It'll be just like everything else in modern Amerca: A ridiculas double standard.

Richard Baker| 1.7.11 @ 11:03AM

NavyBrat:
In the Army of the '70s we all had to go to "rap sessions" which consisted of an NCO moderator, for lack of another term, and a roomful of troops. The black guys sat on one side and the whites on the other. The sole function, so it seemed to me, was to allow the blacks to verbally assault the whites. When the whites would say anything the NCO moderator would try to justify the complaints/harangue of the black troops. I'd zone out the circus, get my named signed on the log, and go back to work. As an Army kid, my Dad served '48-'68, I grew up around every race and ethnic group and thought that was normal. The "rap sessions" were a waste of time.

Welcome to the Army| 1.7.11 @ 12:22PM

Is Major Hassan still being paid as an O-4 while in confinement? Does anyone know the particulars of Courts Martial? I'm interested in comparing Honors' case to Hassan's; I'm trying to understand why one is forgotten and the other is a hot scoop.

Lifeofthemind | 1.7.11 @ 3:55PM

Made it as far as LT (O-3) driving ships myself. I would follow Owen Honors into Combat. The Admirals who did this to him, after it had been known and evaluated by senior officers 5 years ago, are no better than polliwogs. Find out how a polliwog becomes a Shellback by Crossing the Line.

A Sailor| 1.8.11 @ 1:28AM

This article is a disgusting piece of trash. I do not know where Mr. Neumayr has been for the last 10 years but CAPT Honors and military members such as him have been out fighting a very difficult war on two fronts while the rest of the country lives in comfort. We are sorry for the occasional lapses in political correctness. As XO of the Enterprise, CAPT Honors' leadership enabled the crew to perform magnificently through two long combat deployments. These videos were not for public viewing. They were stolen from the ship and displayed to the public in a manner that has been taken completely out of context. It would be nice to see someone from the press do their homework before resorting to hit pieces such as this. There is another side to the story that probably will never be told and this week has been an exercise in the character assassination of a good man. American Spectator, CNN, Fox News and other news outlets should be ashamed.

Pelligrino| 1.8.11 @ 3:53AM

Capt. G.,
I appreciate your post, I do. But I still have serious concerns.

A big one: Is the tension and arduousness really that extreme onboard the USS Enterprise (or a similar US Navy vessel?) Please understand: I know of no US navy ship aside from the USS Cole that has sustained any attacks. Many a US soldier and US Marine (with land duty in Iraq and Afghanistan) would love to be aboard a big, safe ship like the USS E. Aren’t port calls rather frequent? When talking to those who did 6th Fleet duty, they knew every possible port city in the Mediterranean. I mean, they’d seen it all to include bus trips to Paris, Rome, Milan, Madrid, etc. Seemed like a lot of R&R on those ‘cruises.’

My central question: Is not the US Navy (and our other armed services) a bit too guilty of the “I’m overstressed!” whinny, self-pity mentality that seems rampant in our present-day US culture?

Overstressed by what? Some difficult military duty? Some long hours? Some tedium? Some lousy, very rough around the edges superiors? Okay, I get it. But what exactly did one anticipate on signing up in our all volunteer forces? (And the many who readily reenlist, don’t they know what they’re bargaining for?)

I mean, military duty is supposed to be well laced with rigor, hardships, loneliness, and some times of real danger, no?

These videos, XO Movie Night, et al is all defended as needed morale boosting.

No, I remain unconvinced. I’d fire his egotistical (yes, I am aware that a ‘degree’ of swagger Is necessary for a senior leader) rear end in a heartbeat.

I see a very egotistical man.

And I do see self-aggrandizement. He wants to be popular, contrary to what an XO should be. (You have it right, the XO is to be the very unpopular, rigid, keeper of standards. The one for whom good or great is never good enough. He is one's worst nightmare because he is always meticulously inspecting & checking.) But here is Capt. Honors misusing Navy Public Affairs staff and expensive equipment (and time) to promote himself and his weird brand of SNL? Dave Chappelle? Eddie Murphy? Humor.

Oh, I see, my US Navy cannot defend this nation without incessant sexually gratifying jokes to include the third most senior officer repeatedly masturbating (and encouraging his staff to do likewise) in these videos.

Masturbating is a US Navy officer’s responsibility? He does this to lead by example, I suppose?

I bet the naïve 20 and 30-something Navy wives who do stress, fret, worry, pray, and do all those selfless family support activities find Capt. Honor’s sexual appetites and self-pleasuring , I bet they find this normal senior officer behavior highly respectable.

It is so stressful out there, eh?

We see blurred faces of individuals mimicking sleeping with him in his berth. Women? Perhaps? Which women did he coerce (and which willingly agreed) to perform this part of the skits? See any problems with this?

Oh, it’s all harmless giggles.

Ditto the shower scenes. Are these Capt. Honor’s fantasy thoughts? Rank does have its privileges, does it not?

I mean, was it his idea to have the full color, life-sized poster of himself in the female shower with the females fawning over him while sudzing & scrubbing themselves down?

(I think a lot of shipmates would figure: Yeah, the old man is getting some ass. Me? Ain’t happenin’. I try that, and its UCMJ city. Him? Well….?)

I don’t see these as recipes for the VITAL respect up and down the chain of command.

Officers have to be renaissance men. And all officers, especially the ones 0-4 and above, must really be almost saint-like. There is no other way. Otherwise a military unit flounders.

Help me understand. YES, our military brass/Pentagon-level is OVERLY-PC and has been for the last quarter century that I have known it. And this is truly to the detriment of our national defense present & future. But I cannot see how any rank (especially the very crucial senior Navy lieutenants – the ones about to decide for the Navy or for civilian life) can respect a CO who cavorts like the fool.

There are many ways to break the ice, ease the tensions, provide some real laughs. What? It has to be R-rated or XXX or the sailors just fall asleep? Gosh, with all the modern tech capabilities aboard in 2006-07, this would be very do-able. One could achieve good laughs. Clean stuff.

Or do we always need Cher doing her sexual gyrations to the rock back-beat on the battleship’s main gun? That’s the only way today’s Navy officers can think to aid ship morale?

Bawdy & tawdy?

I just really want to believe (maybe too naïve?) that my most senior commanders are not sexual perverts. And that they don’t see the need to be entertainers. And that they can creatively do the necessary to look after those who are their responsibility – without it being sick.

Newslfash Capt. G.: There are lots of Navy brat 13 and 14 year olds who now know what 'XO Movie Night' is. (And many knew these stunts long before these little YouTube USS Enterprise revelations). How much does this aid them respecting and admiring their parents?

Particularly when there are lots of young single, married (with no spouse within 6-10 time zones) women right at close quarters who…might just need some special, personal attention, Capt. Honors?

Two can play at this game and some women certainly do. With aplomb. There are women who know how to screw their way to better duty, perks, promotions, etc. Don’t you think they noted Capt. H.’s proclivities? And they can outmaneuver him any day to achieve their own aims via his frailties.

Blackmailing or extorting a senior officer? Unheard of in our US military?

That does wonders for unit cohesion, ship morale. Trust. Integrity. Honor?

The live enacted and video skits need to be perverted? And we need senior leaders in the lead roles to be the perverts to lift the burdened/overstressed souls of the ship?

And…the double standards. This is a guy who would probably try to act the pinnacle of an officer & gentleman at a military ball in D.C. (one with wives present) or in front of a US Congressional panel. His words laced with decorum and grace.

All his favorite F-bomb expletives would be…nowhere to be found, right? But they are necessary, no, absolutely essential to aboard ship duties and to his XO Movie Night role?

Grown men that still find fascination in hearing themselves cuss like an immature 19-year old? Wow! That’s impressive, no? (The US Army’s Stanley McChrystal came across the same way – highly immature for a man at the VERY top.)

I’d lay big money that many a 0-3, 0-4, and 0-5 hate Honor’s guts. (ones who served in 2006, 2007 on the Enterprise) They saw the man for who he is. I don’t mean just severely dislike for a deserved or undeserved ass-chewing. I mean, they’d hate him for the ueber-double-standards.

I respect people who are the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow. They don’t morph or behave as chameleons based on their immediate environment. And they behave in utmost fashion whether observed by 10, 25, or 100 others or when alone.

Our US Navy cannot produce top officers like that?

And I think that is what enlisted, junior officers, and subordinate officers LONG to see in our senior military leadership.

And, if Honors is so the epitome of what the military should be, why’s he wasting US Navy time and US taxpayer monies hosting actress Glenn Close? How does that aid our nation’s military objectives and the never-ending efforts to train sailors and ready very-breakable, expensive, complicated Navy equipment and weaponry? (Was he always on hand to personally greet the NFL and NBA cheerleaders?) Oh right, it is sooo stressful out there.

He could probably do a lot for his ship and the US Navy by vetoing these completely unnecessary self-serving VIP shipboard visits.

Yes, I am very aware of the zero-deficiencies culture that cripples and lames all branches of our US military. That is what I would like to see a gutsy, determined Navy CO take on. Not see him cavorting in sophomoric, frat-boy, egotistcal (Hey! I’m so cool!) videos.

Help me out, Capt. G. I just don’t see it.

You'd really want to do a 6-8 month cruise with a man like this. Is your wife hip to this kind of male officer as your mentor?

As for todays’ US military (everywhere/globally) and stress. That’s malarkey.

Today a routine, morale building email can travel the globe in less time than it takes for me to type this sentence. Sailors are communicating with families like NEVER before. Videos. Christmas photos. Songs as MP3 files exchanged. Birthday greetings. Personal web sites (family members post). Well wishes at graduations. Live viewing of graduations. Cooks bust their tails to place fantastic meals before the service members – like meals our granddaddies in the service could only fantasize about. You have Coca Cola (and 9 other flavors) every day right? I know guys who saw one Coke can in a full year in Viet Nam. Guys now see movies when deployed the SAME week that they premier in big US cities. The USO brings top NFL, MLB, NBA, NASCAR and other athletes right to our service members – year round. And watching games live, LIVE! when 5,000 miles away. Or seeing ESPN3. The military gets so many care packages that – the honest truth – they military has too many mostly. Many go unopened. Good chow is so plentiful 24/7 in many cases the biggest issue is overeating/getting overweight. One sailor or soldier can personally correspond with a dozen women (if he has that kind of writing endurance) who write Christmas cards hoping to “meet” a man in uniform. No joke. The guys see these cards. And can have 10 female penpals in no time. Did G.I. Joe in WW2, Korea, Viet Nam or even Desert Storm have it this good? No way.
In so many present-day deployment situations, spouses can correspond/talk 2 & 3 times per week.

Tell the truth: Wives & girlfriends, parents fly over to meet the crew at a mid-cruise port call and spend 4-5 days together sometimes. Yes, that can be expensive. But, I mean, when did a US shipmate have that kind of opportunity just 30-40 years ago?

As for morale, today’s servicemembers NEVER had it so good. We’re spoiled.

So I don’t buy the I’m-so-stressed-I-can –justify-whatever-I-want-to-justify-argument.

carnot| 1.8.11 @ 7:52PM

yea...I can tell you have spent a lot of time on the flight deck during flight ops.

putz.

Richard Baker| 1.8.11 @ 11:06AM

Pelligrino:
Have you ever served or is your response just another civilian bleating? Multiple long deployments, shipboard life, and PC nonsense make it difficult for even the best. Want to know why, for example, the 82nd Airborne is having a rash of suicides? Multiple (4-6) long deployments in a harsh environment in a combat zone. You sound like someone who hasn't a clue. Knew a Medal of Honor awardee in my last unit in the'70s who did 5 consecutive tours with 5th Special Forces Group in Vietnam and when I knew him he was trying to work it out because of the intensity of his service. Get real, man.

Pelligrino| 1.8.11 @ 3:00PM

Mr. Baker,
I have more than a clue. I have the wealth of human history. And our collective world history -- and that of our USA -- is one of wars, rumors of wars, conflicts, strife. Even our cities sometimes become more like battle zones with ultra violent gangs, cop killers, drug ingpins with little armies of their own.

We've had over 45 million US citizens serve in our armed forces since Lexington and Concord.

Think about it....sure, many never saw combat or had a terribly traumatic experience while in uniform.

But even if a fraction of the 45 million did, I guess that justfies abbherrent behaviors? How about all the police and firemen near you that have lost buddies? Do we see them needing stimulants, intense counseling, ready at the drop of a hat to go over the deep end?

No, I cannot excuse any over 30 year old male -- in any walk of life -- that claims he needs hedonistic self-serving scenes like masterbation to help improve morale for unit cohesion and effectiveness. (I would estimate Capt. Honors' age during 2006, 2007 at 41 or 42 years old.)

We excuse everything, don't we?

The Army suicides have far more to do with 1) the utterly lousy fully broken homes these kids come from, 2) very poor education (for which these kids are also responsible), 3) no personal, real committed faith in their lives, 4) no knowledge of who they are in God's eyes and why they are given life in the first place.

And, yes, suicides are the ultimate "Me-Me-Me first!" self-centered act. If a reader here has never encountered that thought, just chew on it for a bit; it will make sense to you over time.

The suicides have far less to do with what they encounter while wearing the uniform. The stage was usually set for this act long before the individual ever approached a recruiting station.

Yes, I guess this is my nation's modern culture. Everything is justifiable; all is excusable.

And I need never think I am responsible to do what is right -- whether observed or unobserved, whether given credit for it or the deed going unknown.

As others have written here over and over: Liberalism means never having to grow up, i.e. permanent immaturity.

I guess that wasn't your daughter that XO Honors was 'sleeping' next to or getting ready to shower with.

These are just tiny snippets of many senior military officers, XO Honor's story is just one more manifestation of it.

Peter Pan? Never have to grow up. (Yet desperately want to be called "Sir!" by one and all)

carnot| 1.8.11 @ 7:56PM

ummm...apparently....the policemen and firemen do need multi-billion dollar palliatives from the government.

philfl63| 1.9.11 @ 8:44PM

Sounds like Pelligrino is another man-puss civilian who never served in the military and now feels shame and inadequacy for his lack of service. Yes Pelligrino, all you had to do was volunteer, raise your hand, and swear the oath. Quite simple really.

Richard Baker| 1.10.11 @ 9:51AM

Pelligrino:
You really don't have a clue, do you? Try spouting your nonsense to these young Soldiers and Marines who are on their 4th, 5th, or 6th tour in SW Asia. People such as yourself who've never served assume it's just another job. I'll ask you this then. Is it a part of your job, other than police or firemen, to know that your life could be ended today as a natural consequence of your job?

Richard Baker| 1.10.11 @ 10:27AM

philfl63:
Agreed. My Father was at Chosin Reservoir in 1950. The rest of his life he profoundly different then the happy-go-lucky kid that family told me he was before Korea. Pelligrino and his ilk seem to think that combat stress has nothing to do with the equation. Blind but will not see, I suppose. By the way, wonder if he knows the Oath that we all had to recite? I vividly remember mine.

Richard Baker| 1.10.11 @ 10:28AM

The rest of his life he was profoundly different

Adidas | 8.11.11 @ 5:57AM

is good

العاب بنات | 4.10.12 @ 12:24PM

SWOs eat their young.

is good

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